Article: 228034 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred Hambrecht" Subject: how many forum members to change a lightbulb? Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 04:42:47 -0400 Message-ID: <3e81c$44dee622$471d24de$25131@ALLTEL.NET> How many forum members does it take to change a lightbulb? 1 to change the light bulb and 1 to post that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs 53 to flame the spell checkers 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames 6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb" ... another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive 2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp" 15 know-it-alls who claim they were in the industry, and that "light bulb" is perfectly correct 156 to email the participant's ISPs complaining that they are in violation of their "acceptable use policy" 109 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a lightbulb forum 203 to demand that cross posting to hardware forum, off-topic forum, and lightbulb forum about changing light bulbs be stopped 111 to defend the posting to this forum saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant to this forum 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty 27 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs 14 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected URL's 3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant to this group which makes light bulbs relevant to this group 33 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures, and add "Me too" 12 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy 19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three" 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ 44 to ask what is a "FAQ" 4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?" 143 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs" 1 new forum member to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again Article: 228035 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <9pudnS88mudASEHZRVny3g@bt.com> <2u6Dg.7767$FN2.5867@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 09:46:48 +0100 Message-ID: The self-capacitance of a multi-turn solenoid has little to do with spacing between turns. Self-c depends on coil length and diameter. The self-capacitances between adjacent turns are all in series with each other. Resulting capacitance across coil is negligible. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A coil 6.6" long, 6" diameter, 26.5 turns, has L = 68 uH, Q = 500 at 3.8 MHz, and self-resonant frequency = 9 MHz. ---- Reg. Article: 228036 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Brian Howie Subject: Re: how many forum members to change a lightbulb? Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:56:03 +0100 Message-ID: References: <3e81c$44dee622$471d24de$25131@ALLTEL.NET> In message <3e81c$44dee622$471d24de$25131@ALLTEL.NET>, Fred Hambrecht writes >How many forum members does it take to change a lightbulb? Add another one one to post a link to e-bay " one light bulb, slightly used " Brian -- Brian Howie Article: 228037 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes References: <9pudnS88mudASEHZRVny3g@bt.com> <2u6Dg.7767$FN2.5867@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:34:35 GMT Walter Maxwell wrote: > Cecil, I suggest you re-measure the self-resonant frequency of the coil by > itself, and if you have the means to do it, also measure the series resistance > at both the self-resonant frequency and at 4.0 MHz. I'm betting there will be a > large difference in the resistances, and that the self-resonant frequency will > be much greater than 6.6 MHz. I'm not sure how to measure the 1/4WL self-resonant frequency with an MFJ-259B without a ground plane. I suppose it could be done using a 1/4WL counterpoise in free space. Let me just report what the MFJ-259B readings are with the isolated 75m Texas Bugcatcher coil across the MFJ-259B terminals. The first dip in impedance is at 14.7 MHz where the MFJ reads 620+j0 ohms. The second dip in impedance is at 24.4 MHz where the MFJ reads 88+j0 ohms. Is the first dip the 1/4WL self- resonant point and the second dip the 1/2WL self-resonant point? I want to make it clear that the previously reported 6.6 MHz self-resonant measurement was made with the base-loaded coil mounted a few inches away from my GMC pickup ground plane. The ground plane was no doubt in the field of the coil at the bottom end so the coil was certainly not isolated as it is in the above reported measurements. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228038 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44DEADA7.5010806@fuse.net> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:39:42 GMT jawod wrote: > If you are confident in your intelligence, why do you need validation? In my case, my wife's best friend's husband, who was a member of MENSA, made a bet with me that I couldn't qualify for MENSA. If I won, he would pay for the exam and my first year's dues. If I lost, I was out the cost of the exam and dinner for 4. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228039 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tam/WB2TT" References: <1155427993.365527.265200@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: 2 Meter Beam Element Question Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 08:41:11 -0400 Message-ID: "N3" wrote in message news:1155427993.365527.265200@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > Which is more practical? > Driven element with two directors or reflector, driven element, > director. > Neither one is worth building at 2 meters. A 5 element beam with a reflector, driven element. and 3 directors could be built on a 4 - 5 foot boom. Tam/WB2TT Article: 228040 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Message-ID: <9lFDg.12164$gY6.9269@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:57:41 GMT L. wrote: > Mensa - who gives a damned? Some of the same people who give a damn about the definition of words. > Most of the "brilliant" people I've ever met - > had their thumbs up their ass when it came to doing the basic things in > life - they can't do them. What the hell good is a "brilliant" person if > they're too stupid to know how or lazy to do "basic" things? If having a > Mensa number means you're bankrupt in common sense or "lazy", I'd rather not > be a member - thank you. This is one of the best examples of sour grapes that I have ever seen. > This is funny as all hell....... some shmuck "claiming" to be a "genious" > coming in here and trying to make the rest of us seem inferior to him. Exactly as you are trying to use your Morse code skill to make nocode techs feel inferior to you "real hams". (Incidentally, what good is Morse code skill when one can't even spell "genius"?) > No one is any better than the rest of us. Strange words from a man who has been pounding his chest because knowing Morse code makes him so superior. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228041 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1153584132.692529.177920@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0ro4c2d13dq9i23ab98uiiql3spgmhfi22@4ax.com> <1153597502.509378.294260@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1153664765.447946.4510@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <44DEAAAA.7030203@fuse.net> <44ded225$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 13:06:48 GMT L. wrote: > I don't know if there is actually any truth to this BUT - the dumbing down > "allegedly" started back in Reagan's day or was it George Srs? - when > someone here in the U.S. apparently couldn't pass the exam - and being he > was in good relations with the then King of Jordan, the King of Jordan asked > Reagan or Bush Sr to do something to help out. I've heard that story a few > times. True or not - the tests have changed drastically. If I remember correctly, the incident had nothing to do with dumbing down technical issues. It was all about the outdated Morse code testing requirement which a lot of countries have indeed dropped. > The tests really (in my opinion) aren't meant to "teach" anything or shall > we say - show any "in depth proficiency". Of course not. They are entrance exams, not university degrees. > They're merely meant to get you in the door - period. Exactly! That is their entire purpose. They open the door to a lifetime of learning. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228042 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 13:19:32 GMT Olie wrote: > Obviously the person claiming to be a Mensa member has poked a figurative > finger into your soft spot. Sensitive, are you? Taking umbrage? Apparently > you feel that the alleged Mensa member has slighted you either directly or > indirectly, ergo your lengthy and uncalled-for diatribe. > Of course, in your self-righteous response you probably did not consider the > possibility that the "Mensa" person was a troll. Makes no difference, does > it? He certainly set you off on a rant. I give him five stars for that. My reporting my MENSA membership is usually a troll aimed at someone who feels himself to be superior to everyone else for some obscure reason, e.g. Morse code skill. Note that not only is a lack of Morse code skill belittled but MENSA membership is also belittled. In fact, any difference from the attitudes and attrubutes of the poster will be belittled. Even correct definitions of words have been belittled. Truth is, I got into MENSA because someone lost a bet and paid for my exam and dues. I am not presently a member of MENSA because the yearly dues exceed my threshold of pain. But I am a member of OOTC and FISTS, #8741. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228043 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44DF2785.4070200@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 09:22:13 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> > > There's a difference between memorizing a formula or method and memorizing > specific answers to specific questions. The former is called learning, and > can be applied to many situations. The latter is called laziness, and > teaches nothing that can be used for any other purpose. > I don't view testing in this regard as a form of teaching. The goal, as someone posted, is to "get in the door". What's wrong with that? Memorizing precise answers and not processes is lazy, I guess. However, following ARRL testing manuals, you HAVE to learn the processes. Deep understanding of all principles involved will gain you an educational degree. That's not the intent of FCC testing. It's a hobby! Get in the door and have fun. John AB8O Article: 228044 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44DF2840.8040500@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 09:25:20 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> > > > In the example YOU give - Cecil - it could be taken either way. In the case > of the "frequencies" you're to operate on for a given license and band - > YES - you could simply "memorize" (not really commit to memory) those > frequencies - for the exam purposes and just refer to a chart from there in. > OR you COULD "memorize" them (actually committing to memory) for the purpose > of NOT having to use a chart! However, once you use those frequencies after > a while - especially if active - then you "would" tend to "memorize" (for > life) those frequencies. Yes, it is definately splitting hairs! > > L. > > that makes no sense. to memorize is to commit to memory, by definition. Article: 228045 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes References: <9pudnS88mudASEHZRVny3g@bt.com> <2u6Dg.7767$FN2.5867@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> Message-ID: <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 13:28:37 GMT Reg Edwards wrote: > A coil 6.6" long, 6" diameter, 26.5 turns, has L = 68 uH, Q = 500 at > 3.8 MHz, and self-resonant frequency = 9 MHz. Wouldn't mounting the coil four inches above a GMC pickup ground plane reduce the Q and the self-resonant frequency? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228046 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44DF295E.6070201@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 09:30:06 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would Ham Radio References: <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <_KkDg.7649$Oh1.1995@news01.roc.ny> <1155412192.574567.251920@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > From: Steve Stone on Sat, Aug 12 2006 6:31 am > Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, > rec.radio.scanner, > > rec.radio.swap > > > >>Ham radio is gonna be flushed big time if this is all you old farts are >>worried about. > > > Steve, you may be quite right! > > There is NO expression from these federally-authorized morsemen > of amateur radio being a HOBBY. [it is a "service" to the > country or something para-military...and "hobby" is not in the > Rules (except by definition)] Indeed, they bristle and come > unglued at the slightest negativism of their mighty endeavors of > "professional amateurism" with all its rank, status, and glory. > Ham radio can't be just "fun" for its own sake, an enjoyable > pastime, something done for personal pleasure. No, one has to > enjoy ONLY Their views, like what they like, or suffer the > consequences of being considered "lower caste" on par with > river-bottom slime. > > These mighty macho morsemen demand OBEDIANCE to their views and > opinions, are quick to call disbelievers any name they choose, > always denigrative, condescending, with heavy overtones of > attempted humiliation. They are the unforgiving in regards to > anyone NOT worshiping their status, rank, titles in amateurism. > Unforgiving to the point of attacking ANYONE against them. > They RULE. [they think...but only in here...] > > While these mighty macho morsemen take out their frustrations, > resentments, anger against all not idolizing their opinions, > there are some actual amateur radio issues which need addressing. > The removal or continuation of the morse code test for US amateur > radio license testing is still in limbo; official Comment period > on the NPRM was over late last year. Access BPL recently had a > rules revision/addendum added by the FCC with a Report and Order > released on 7 August 2006. No one in here apparently cares about > it since the "ARRL is on the job," "fighting" to keep HF "safe" > (for their membership?). [ho, ho, some "fight"...] > > No one cares to discuss two BIG issues. Everyone is busy, busy, > trying to insult anyone who doesn't subscribe to Their views. > Ain't no "discussion" here, hasn't been for years. Internecine > personal warfare is the order of the day. Everyone in here > either obeys the rulings of Big Brother in Newington or > they are considered lower forms of (barely) life. > > The number of US amateur radio licensees is slowly dropping > (expirations greater than new licensees to the tune of 10K > in three years). Membership in the ARRL (the "representative" > of all, according to them) has never been more than a quarter > of all US licensees. Technician class licensees are very > very close to being a full half of all classes (49.07% of all > individual licensees as of 12 Aug 06). > > Lettuce all bow our heads and worship morsemanship...these > are the salad days of the brass-pounders. Morse is the answer > to everything I'm told. [over and over again] :-) > > Beep, beep... > > LenAnderson@ieee.org > JOIN us. Article: 228047 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <9pudnS88mudASEHZRVny3g@bt.com> <2u6Dg.7767$FN2.5867@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 15:02:03 +0100 Message-ID: "Cecil Moore" wrote > Reg Edwards wrote: > > A coil 6.6" long, 6" diameter, 26.5 turns, has L = 68 uH, Q = 500 at > > 3.8 MHz, and self-resonant frequency = 9 MHz. > > Wouldn't mounting the coil four inches above a GMC pickup > ground plane reduce the Q and the self-resonant frequency? > -- ====================================== Cec, Very likely. But not very much. It would not be the self-resonant frequency any more. The srf never changes. And neither does the intrinsic coil Q. We must be careful with our descriptions. Slackness leads to misunderstandings, arguments and fights. ---- Reg Article: 228048 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 16:07:20 +0200 From: Dominique Michel Subject: Re: Receiving Loop Message-ID: <20060813160720.59a4424c@localhost> References: <1155400389.854352.27800@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Le 12 Aug 2006 14:59:50 -0700, "K7ITM" a écrit : > You can find quite a bit of discussion about small loops if you search > the archives of this group. That, however, may confuse you because > some folk seem intent on making absolute statements about things they > don't really understand. Reputable books will tell you that the > "shield" is actually the antenna, and to gain the advantage of > rejection of local predominantly e-field noise, you must make the loop > very symmetrical. I know that Jasick's Antenna Engineering book has a > good chapter on loops, and King, Mimno and Wing's "Transmission Lines, > Antennas and Waveguides" has a good qualitative discussion of them. > There are various programs out there to help you determine the > performance of small receiving loops. I've found one on Reg Edwards' > web page to be useful. > > Cheers, > Tom > The Balanis have an extended chapter on loops, but nothing on shielded loop. But it is a very interesting reading in all cases, as well as other books too. > John wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I am new to the group and have a question. > > > > Does anyone know a good source of information on small (less than > > .1wl), shielded (coax) magnetic loops? In particular, I would like to > > know design equations (are ON4UN's formulae correct and complete?). Why > > do most people use RG-59 rather than a thicker coax (shielding, C/ft?)? > > Why is 20' for 160 meters the norm? Discarding mechanical > > considerations, wouldn't thicker coax provide greater efficiency? > > I think at it is because RG-59 is cheaper. The parasitic capacitance don't have a big impact on a small loop because you will have to use an additional capacitor to get the antenna to resonate on the frequency you want to receive. Cheers, Dominique > > I found ON4UN's book lacking on this antenna. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > John, N9RF > Article: 228049 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <1155400389.854352.27800@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Receiving Loop Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 15:51:41 +0100 Message-ID: <0bednXmH5O63oELZRVnygw@bt.com> Shielded loops are needed only when a small loop is used for direction-finding purposes. It is then an angle-measuring instrument. Shields serve no useful purpose on ordinary receiving and transmitting loops. They reduce efficiency. All that is needed is a bare loop conductor. For multi-turn receiving loops download program RJELOOP3 For transmitting magloops download program MAGLOOP4 from website below. Download in a few seconds and run immediately. ---- ........................................................... Regards from Reg, G4FGQ For Free Radio Design Software go to http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp ........................................................... Article: 228050 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 11:03:35 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1153664765.447946.4510@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <44DEAAAA.7030203@fuse.net> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:29:30 -0400, jawod wrote: >Cecil Moore wrote: >> user@private-mail-domain.invalid wrote: >> >>> It used to be that there weren't a set of questions with >>> corresponding answers - there was a syllabus from which the questions >>> were set. It took understanding of the syllabus to apply the formulae >>> that had been learnt to calculate the answer. >> >> >> It is true that the 1950's License Manuals were not multiple >> choice but the exams were. The License Manuals went like this: >> >> Q: What is the unit of electrical resistance? >> >> A: The unit of electrical resistance is the ohm. >> >> The exam then had multiple choices, one of them being "ohm". >> >> It is hard to understand how anyone could develop that correct >> answer from first principles or formulas. I memorized the >> correct answer and it still exists in my memory as something >> I once memorized long before I ever knew there was a man named >> Ohm after whom the unit of electrical resistance was named. >> >> The difference between memorizing the question pool answers >> from the 1950's License Manuals and memorizing the question >> pool answers of today is just splitting hairs. I used exactly >> the same memorizing techniques to ace the Extra exam in >> 2000 as I did to pass the Conditional exam in 1953. >Here here (!) >Cecil, I'm happy to agree with you. > >Modern testing techniques are intended to be transparent. This is true >for FCC exams, Postal exams, any and all government qualification exams. >(And because of this, all qualifying exams in the private sector, as >well.) Indeed part this is so we the people (ham and nonham alike ) may be assured of fair testing and fair grading. Short answer qoul d make for better ttests if you could that they would be fairly graded > >It took a lot of litigation to get there. Government agencies had to >prove that their qualifying exams were directly linked to the specific >tasks required of the given position for which the individual was applying. I would correct amend your statment to it took a lot of ligtigation, threats of ligation and Law but that is mostly quibbling > >A Postal Carrier needn't know Pythagorus' theorum to deliver the mail. >I took the Postal Carrier exam 35 years ago and did not do well. I >wasn't good at sorting on a timed basis. > >This notion of a "cheapening" of FCC requirements because the question >pool is open to the public is a red herring: transparency is the rule. >If you look at the question pool and study it, you will gain the >necessary expertise to pass the exam. This is not cheating, nor is it >short-circuiting the "REAL" ham radio "requirements" that some view as >sacrosanct. indeed well said > >I used ARRL manuals to pass the Extra Exam and I do not defer to anyone >in this regard. Does this make me a ham radio genius? Not AT ALL. Man, >I have SO MUCH to learn. This newsgroup is "potentially" very helpful! >For that, I give thanks. > >You know, I love ham radio. I'm happy so many join the ranks each year. >If there still is a concern out there, be an Elmer and address it. > >John >AB8O (yeah, I changed my call) http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228051 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Walter Maxwell Subject: Re: how many forum members to change a lightbulb? Message-ID: References: <3e81c$44dee622$471d24de$25131@ALLTEL.NET> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 11:06:49 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 04:42:47 -0400, "Fred Hambrecht" wrote: >How many forum members does it take to change a lightbulb? > Right on, Fred! Seems that once in a while something like that occurs in threads appearing on this NG. Walt, W2DU Article: 228052 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44DF4249.1080807@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 11:16:25 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <8ospd2lfvgmbtpd1s6b0orl41qjudi5du5@4ax.com> <26jrd2pug4448ng9i6p69924i5jcer21a3@4ax.com> <1155402655.846630.24010@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <90ksd29a82a6ui32fpl1sshph1f9vld103@4ax.com> <1155422570.385867.308540@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> an old friend wrote: > Al Klein wrote: > >>On 12 Aug 2006 10:10:55 -0700, "an old friend" >>wrote: >> >> >>>at some level all you can do a merorize >> >>The discussion isn't about WHETHER you memorize, it's about WHAT you >>memorize. > > that is a chnge in tune > > oncce you accpet that much of the testing involves memizztion the > question then comes down to where is your beef? > if it is that today we then to use multiguess questions pools verus > short answer of bygone day you likely out of luck the extra cost is not > going to be supported within the present system > > I agree short answer would be an improvement over multible guess but > teks you issue up with other don't imply that the ams that have taken > and passed the required tetst have not done what is required > > you tread awfully close to libel there AL ask an lawyer if you don't > believe me > I am sorry, but do you type with your feet? Anyway,, Back in the old days, we used to walk 5 miles in the snow to the FCC field office to take our exams. We had to kneel on radiators while we took the test. We used slide rules and crayons AND WE LIKED IT!!! Then we'd wait 3 years to receive our license which gave us time to teach electrons to enter and exit all the tubes...stupid little buggers, those. Boy, those were the days. When a ham was a ham, brass was for pounding and AM signals were as wide as the day is long. These "young" whippersnappers get off too easy. I say, rank priveleges on the basis of how big an RF burn you can take, or on the basis of personal weight. I may have said it before: take the FCC out of it completely and go with the FDA. Those boys know how to grade. (Too much tea this morning!) John AB8O Article: 228053 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 11:24:41 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Frequency Sensitivity of mobile HF vertical antennas. References: <5YmdnXbPd7P7hkDZnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > Bill Turner wrote: > >> You restated what I said in much more detail, but what you have done >> is expounded on the "what". I still don't know the "how" or the "why". > > > The Smith Chart yields the "how". Please take the "why" > up with The Creator. :-) Cecil --- you are begging the question!! I reported that the addition of 3 or 4 inches above the coil produces a much larger shift in frequency than adding the exact same length below the coil [by almost a factor of 100:1]. That is empirical data. It is real and measurable. My question is one of Physics. I think everyone who reads this list knows it happens. The real question is: Why?? Why the difference in antenna resonant frequency? Article: 228054 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 11:25:40 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Moving again... have to make a new antenna (sigh) References: <1155429052.626794.225160@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: eternalsquire@comcast.net wrote: > All, > > My family is having to move again.... The place I am moving to is on > the edge > of a circular trailer part, surrounded by a metal fence about 1 mile in > circumference. > > On the other side of the fence is an effectively infinite backlot > studded with > 6 to 9 foot mesquite trees. > > This time I am not allowed to get the antenna up any higher than the > fence or > the mesquite trees. However, length is a definite possibility? > > Any suggestions for making the most of this situation for low-angle DX > on 40 or 20? > > Thanks in advance, > > The Eternal Squire > Beverage? Article: 228055 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 13 Aug 2006 08:36:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1155483361.447706.281300@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: jawod wrote: > an old friend wrote: > > Al Klein wrote: > > > >>On 12 Aug 2006 10:10:55 -0700, "an old friend" > >>wrote: > > you tread awfully close to libel there AL ask an lawyer if you don't > > believe me > > > I am sorry, but do you type with your feet? > > Anyway,, > Back in the old days, we used to walk 5 miles in the snow to the FCC > field office to take our exams. We had to kneel on radiators while we > took the test. We used slide rules and crayons AND WE LIKED IT!!! > > Then we'd wait 3 years to receive our license which gave us time to > teach electrons to enter and exit all the tubes...stupid little buggers, > those. > > Boy, those were the days. When a ham was a ham, brass was for pounding > and AM signals were as wide as the day is long. > > These "young" whippersnappers get off too easy. > > I say, rank priveleges on the basis of how big an RF burn you can take, > or on the basis of personal weight. > > I may have said it before: take the FCC out of it completely and go with > the FDA. Those boys know how to grade. > > (Too much tea this morning!) I avoid answering question from that admit to using too much of any drug legal or or not > > John > AB8O Article: 228056 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: notmeman Subject: Re: FS: DX ENGINEERING BALUN Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 10:44:49 -0500 Message-ID: <87iud2l32uc5qr9r037u9db692gj7bcuhp@4ax.com> References: FS: DX ENGINEERING BALUN MODEL DXW-BAL600-H10-A 12:1 high power, rated for 5 kw continuous, 10 kw intermittent, easily handles full-limit AM or SSB. 1.8-30 Mhz, suitable for wide spaced 600 ohm open wire feeders. Like new, used approx. 6 months, installed indoors, has never been out in the elements. See http://www.dxengineering.com/Parts.asp?ID=97&PLID=50&SecID=10&DeptID=33&PartNo=DXE%2DBAL600%2DH10%2DA for detailed specs and photo. $125 includes shipping anywhere in continental USA. Contact me direct k0dan at arrl dot net Article: 228057 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Moving again... have to make a new antenna (sigh) From: Dave Oldridge References: <1155429052.626794.225160@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:03:52 GMT eternalsquire@comcast.net wrote in news:1155429052.626794.225160 @h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: > All, > > My family is having to move again.... The place I am moving to is on > the edge > of a circular trailer part, surrounded by a metal fence about 1 mile in > circumference. > > On the other side of the fence is an effectively infinite backlot > studded with > 6 to 9 foot mesquite trees. > > This time I am not allowed to get the antenna up any higher than the > fence or > the mesquite trees. However, length is a definite possibility? > > Any suggestions for making the most of this situation for low-angle DX > on 40 or 20? If you can get radials down a shortened, center or top-loaded vertical or array of them might be your best bet. Use a (physically) large, high-Q coil for best efficiency. -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 228058 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Receiving Loop From: Dave Oldridge References: <1155400389.854352.27800@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:09:45 GMT "John" wrote in news:1155400389.854352.27800 @p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com: > Hello all, > > I am new to the group and have a question. > > Does anyone know a good source of information on small (less than > .1wl), shielded (coax) magnetic loops? In particular, I would like to > know design equations (are ON4UN's formulae correct and complete?). Why > do most people use RG-59 rather than a thicker coax (shielding, C/ft?)? > Why is 20' for 160 meters the norm? Discarding mechanical > considerations, wouldn't thicker coax provide greater efficiency? In a receiving antenna, efficiency is not as important as in a transmitting antenna, especially on 160 and 80m where the noise floor is usually far louder than the receiver's front end. A little antenna attenuation may actually HELP with intermod distortion and other receiver problems. I've made working loops for both bands from LMR400 that can actually be hung out and used for transmitting. They are about 4 feet in diameter and performance is so-so, but they work. I used the internal capacitance of the coax to resonate them (a lot of cut and test with the analyzer) and matched them with a large gimmick capacitor of flat phone wire wound onto the loop near the feedpoint. Look up Ted Hart's small loop design. Mine are similar, only I did two turns for the 160 loop (it's actually physically smaller than the 80m loop by a bit). -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 228059 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "w8ji@akorn.net" Subject: Re: Frequency Sensitivity of mobile HF vertical antennas. Date: 13 Aug 2006 10:14:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1155489245.688464.86450@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <5YmdnXbPd7P7hkDZnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com> Dave wrote: > I reported that the addition of 3 or 4 inches above the coil produces a much > larger shift in frequency than adding the exact same length below the coil [by > almost a factor of 100:1]. That is empirical data. It is real and measurable. > > My question is one of Physics. I think everyone who reads this list knows it > happens. The real question is: Why?? Why the difference in antenna resonant > frequency? Dave, Any antenna is a large network of distributed impedances. You have series inductance in every conductor and capacitance to the outside world. There is also some series resistance and even shunting losses in dielectrics, but looking at the reactances is good enough to answer your question. Look at what we have in the short mobile antenna. Below the loading coil we have a conductor that carries an almost uniform current, voltage and current are nearly in phase throughout the entire length. We have the loading coil that adds a high value of series reactance all in one spot. Above the loading coil we have an area with very high power factor. The current and voltage are nearly 90 degrees out of phase and voltage is very high. When we perturb the system below the coil, it isn't terribly sensitive to changes in capacitance because voltage is so low. The top of the mast below the coil is terminated in a fairly low impedance so it isn't sensitive to shunt capacitance and the additional series inductance added by the small additional length is very small compared to the system's overall reactance and electrical length at that point. Above the coil it is another story. Now we have very high voltage (it can still have almost the same current above as below the coil if the antenna is a good design). The coil is terminated in a very high value of reactance that is mostly comprised of the distributed reactance of the small whip, and that is mostly capacitive reactance of a very high impedance. Altering the whip length or diameter above the coil greatly changes the system resonance because the small value (very high reactance) of the whip is what actually resonates or terminates the coil. The loading coil and the capacitance above the coil form a series resonant circuit. The area above the coil has very high impedance, very high power factor, and as such is very sensitive to any additional shunting impedance caused by additional length or diameter. The area below the loading coil has almost unity power factor, has low impedance, and has much lower levels of electric field so it isn't nearly as sensitve to shunt impedance (distributed capacitance) changes. 73 Tom Article: 228060 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Frequency Sensitivity of mobile HF vertical antennas. From: Dave Oldridge References: <5YmdnXbPd7P7hkDZnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:16:35 GMT Dave wrote in news:pamdnedye9uq2ULZnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@comcast.com: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> Bill Turner wrote: >> >>> You restated what I said in much more detail, but what you have done >>> is expounded on the "what". I still don't know the "how" or the >>> "why". >> >> >> The Smith Chart yields the "how". Please take the "why" >> up with The Creator. :-) > > Cecil --- you are begging the question!! > > I reported that the addition of 3 or 4 inches above the coil produces > a much larger shift in frequency than adding the exact same length > below the coil [by almost a factor of 100:1]. That is empirical data. > It is real and measurable. > > My question is one of Physics. I think everyone who reads this list > knows it happens. The real question is: Why?? Why the difference in > antenna resonant frequency? Let me try. If you look at the antenna as a set of lumped circuit bits, the lower mast portion is mostly just a wire with radiation losses. The coil and stinger form a series resonant circuit back to ground, thus a small change in either will result in a different resonant frequency. The antenna only presents a low, resistive load, at resonance, so changing the stinger length (thus varying the capacitance to ground) changes the resonance rapidly. Changing the length of the high-current lossy feeder pipe below the coil does little, though it will increase efficiency if you make it as tall as possible. -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 228061 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "w8ji@akorn.net" Subject: Re: Receiving Loop Date: 13 Aug 2006 10:16:47 -0700 Message-ID: <1155489407.045483.102100@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <1155400389.854352.27800@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> John wrote: > Hello all, > > I am new to the group and have a question. > > Does anyone know a good source of information on small (less than > .1wl), shielded (coax) magnetic loops? In particular, I would like to > know design equations (are ON4UN's formulae correct and complete?). Why > do most people use RG-59 rather than a thicker coax (shielding, C/ft?)? > Why is 20' for 160 meters the norm? Discarding mechanical > considerations, wouldn't thicker coax provide greater efficiency? > > I found ON4UN's book lacking on this antenna. > > Thanks in advance, > John, N9RF Try reading this John http://www.w8ji.com/magnetic_receiving_loops.htm 73 Tom Article: 228062 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes References: <9pudnS88mudASEHZRVny3g@bt.com> <2u6Dg.7767$FN2.5867@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:35:11 GMT Reg Edwards wrote: > It would not be the self-resonant frequency any more. The srf never > changes. And neither does the intrinsic coil Q. So what would you call the frequency at which a coil alone is resonant when mounted as a base-loading coil over a ground plane? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228063 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Walter Maxwell Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Message-ID: References: <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 14:00:53 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 15:02:03 +0100, "Reg Edwards" wrote: > >"Cecil Moore" wrote >> Reg Edwards wrote: >> > A coil 6.6" long, 6" diameter, 26.5 turns, has L = 68 uH, Q = 500 >at >> > 3.8 MHz, and self-resonant frequency = 9 MHz. >> >> Wouldn't mounting the coil four inches above a GMC pickup >> ground plane reduce the Q and the self-resonant frequency? >> -- >====================================== >Cec, > >Very likely. But not very much. > >It would not be the self-resonant frequency any more. The srf never >changes. And neither does the intrinsic coil Q. > >We must be careful with our descriptions. Slackness leads to >misunderstandings, arguments and fights. >---- >Reg > Reg, I had never given much thought to the series relationship of the capacitance between turns. I had always considered them as being in parallel, thus the honeycomb, or the basket-weave configurations to minimize the interturn capacitance. Have I misconstrued the purpose of those configurations? Do I also understand you correctly that with a specified length of the solenoid, and a given diameter, the total interturn capacitance is independent of the number of turns, because the capacitance between turns adds in series to the same value regardless of the number of turns? Please educate me. Walt Article: 228064 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Frequency Sensitivity of mobile HF vertical antennas. References: <5YmdnXbPd7P7hkDZnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 19:28:16 GMT Dave Oldridge wrote: >> My question is one of Physics. Lest anyone think I have invented something new, I'm sure Walter Maxwell was doing these sorts of Smith Chart calculations while I was in high school. Given the following 1/4WL resonant stub with Z01 = 600 ohms and Z02 = 4000 ohms: Source----Z01A----x----Z02----y----Z01B----open Boundary conditions are: The feedlines are lossless. The source sees zero ohms. The Z01A length is 45 degrees. The Z02 length is 45 degrees. How long is the Z01B length? This is a problem easily solved by using the outside circles of two Smith Charts, one normalized for 600 ohms and the other normalized for 4000 ohms. The procedure is: Assuming the source is seeing zero ohms, calculate the impedance at 'x'. Plot that impedance on a Z02 Smith Chart. Calculate the impedance at point 'y' of the Z02 length. Plot that impedance on the first Smith Chart and see how long Z01B needs to be to reach to infinity. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228065 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Walter Maxwell Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Message-ID: References: <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 15:36:26 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:34:35 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Walter Maxwell wrote: >> Cecil, I suggest you re-measure the self-resonant frequency of the coil by >> itself, and if you have the means to do it, also measure the series resistance >> at both the self-resonant frequency and at 4.0 MHz. I'm betting there will be a >> large difference in the resistances, and that the self-resonant frequency will >> be much greater than 6.6 MHz. > >I'm not sure how to measure the 1/4WL self-resonant frequency >with an MFJ-259B without a ground plane. I suppose it could be >done using a 1/4WL counterpoise in free space. Let me just >report what the MFJ-259B readings are with the isolated 75m >Texas Bugcatcher coil across the MFJ-259B terminals. > >The first dip in impedance is at 14.7 MHz where the MFJ reads >620+j0 ohms. The second dip in impedance is at 24.4 MHz where >the MFJ reads 88+j0 ohms. Is the first dip the 1/4WL self- >resonant point and the second dip the 1/2WL self-resonant point? > >I want to make it clear that the previously reported 6.6 MHz >self-resonant measurement was made with the base-loaded coil >mounted a few inches away from my GMC pickup ground plane. The >ground plane was no doubt in the field of the coil at the bottom >end so the coil was certainly not isolated as it is in the above >reported measurements. Cecil, I measured the self-resonant frequency of the loading coils with a Measurements 59 grid dip osc with the coil mounted away from all metallic objects. The Webster KW-80 coil that measured 14 MHz for the self-resonant frequency, and 8 ohms resistance at 4.0 MHz, as I remember it from several years ago, was about 3" in diameter and around 7 to 8" long. I don't recall now how I measured the Q, but it was close to 400. I measured the resistance with a GR-1606A RF bridge. If you have a GDO I suggest you remeasure the self-resonant frequency, and then measure the resistance at that frequency with the MFJ 259, and then again at 4.0 MHz. From that data you'll be able to determine the actual Q. Seems like it should be around 500, as Reg calculated. But like I said earlier, I believe the self-resonant frequency of your 6" bugcatcher will be greater than 9 MHz. Walt, W2DU Article: 228066 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <9pudnS88mudASEHZRVny3g@bt.com> <2u6Dg.7767$FN2.5867@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:40:21 +0100 Message-ID: "Cecil Moore" wrote > So what would you call the frequency at which a coil alone > is resonant when mounted as a base-loading coil over a > ground plane? ================================= Cec, I would call it the frequency at which the coil alone is resonant when mounted as a base-loading coil over a ground plane. It would depend on whether the ground plane was a bicycle or the deck of a super-tanker. ----- Reg. Article: 228067 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Ed Bailen Subject: dB Products-Type Antenna Identification Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 14:50:39 -0500 Message-ID: <4e0vd2pvmjfsumqii92nd9ngemogqk8hhp@4ax.com> Among the stuff my neighbor left behind when moved out were two antennas. Each looks like a dBProducts 4-bay VHF array. Can anyone tell me how I can tell from the measurements what frequency these might be designed for? Also, is is possible to change the resonant frequency on this type of folded-dipole antenna? Thanks, Ed - N5KZW Article: 228068 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim - NN7K Subject: Re: dB Products-Type Antenna Identification References: <4e0vd2pvmjfsumqii92nd9ngemogqk8hhp@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:18:44 GMT Try search under ANDREW, or Decibel Products. sounds like you have the 222 series (4 folded dipoles stacked either in the same plane, or in 4 different directions. Tho doubtful that you can change resonant freq, most likely with what you have will be entirely adiquate for a band, even 10-20 MHz from its design frequency (these are fairly broadband devices. As info, Jim NN7K Ed Bailen wrote: > Among the stuff my neighbor left behind when moved out were two > antennas. Each looks like a dBProducts 4-bay VHF array. Can anyone > tell me how I can tell from the measurements what frequency these > might be designed for? Also, is is possible to change the resonant > frequency on this type of folded-dipole antenna? > > Thanks, > Ed - N5KZW Article: 228069 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "g. beat" <@> References: <4e0vd2pvmjfsumqii92nd9ngemogqk8hhp@4ax.com> Subject: Re: dB Products - Type Antenna Identification Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 15:20:00 -0500 Message-ID: "Ed Bailen" wrote in message news:4e0vd2pvmjfsumqii92nd9ngemogqk8hhp@4ax.com... > Among the stuff my neighbor left behind when moved out were two > antennas. Each looks like a dB Products 4-bay VHF array. Can anyone > tell me how I can tell from the measurements what frequency these > might be designed for? Also, is possible to change the resonant > frequency on this type of folded-dipole antenna? > > Thanks, > Ed - N5KZW Decibel Products is famous for their DB-224's, a four bay folded dipole array for VHF hi-band (and the 2-meter ham band) and DB-420's, a 16 bay folded dipole array for UHF (also the 440 MHz ham band). Product catalog http://www.rollanet.org/~rrars/db224.pdf DB-224 Installation Instructions http://www.repeater-builder.com/db/db-224-instruction-sheet.pdf READ CONVERSION OF DB-224 antennas TO HAM BANDS AT BOTTOM Andrew Corporation has the product literature for Decibel Products (which they purchased) http://www.andrew.com/products/antennas/bsa/DB224-E.aspx http://www.andrew.com/products/antennas/bsa/default.aspx?lc=~/Controls/Collateral.ascx You can view products on the WISCO web page http://www.wiscointl.com/decibel/index.htm http://www.wiscointl.com/decibel/dipoles/db224.htm What are the measurements that you have? Possible candidate models (dB's 4-bay products) ASPA712 BASE ANTENNA - 4 Bay dipole VHF antenna, 150-160MHz, 6dB gain omni, 9dB directional, 500 watts. N male termination, 39lb, 22.67' long, truck shippable, hardware supplied. ASPB602 - 4 Bay VHF dipole antenna, 144-162MHz, 6dB gain omni, 9dB directional, 500 watts. N male termination, truck shippable, hardware supplied. DB224-x 4 element broadband VHF dipole antenna. 500 watts, 6dB omni, 9dB offset gain. Harness with N male termination and mounting hardware. place letter below in "x" suffix above "A" version - 150-160 MHz "B" version - 155-165 MHz "C" version - 164-174 MHz "E" version - 138-150 MHz "JJ" version - 220-222 MHz There is also a DB224E-x series (4 element elliptical broadband VHF dipole antenna with offset pattern) Reviews http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/2083 Modify a 150-160 MHz DB-222 or DB-224 for the ham band -- http://www.w4dex.com/kc4fwc/modify.htm w9gb Article: 228070 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "g. beat" <@> References: <4e0vd2pvmjfsumqii92nd9ngemogqk8hhp@4ax.com> Subject: Re: dB Products-Type Antenna Identification Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 15:48:36 -0500 Message-ID: "Jim - NN7K" wrote in message news:EOLDg.591$q63.153@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com... > Try search under ANDREW, or Decibel Products. It sounds like you have the > 222 series (4 folded dipoles stacked either in the same plane, or in > 4 different directions. Though doubtful that you can change resonant > freq, most likely with what you have will be entirely adequate for a band, > even 10-20 MHz from its design frequency > these models are fairly broadband antennas. As info, Jim NN7K Modify a 150-160 MHz DB-222 or DB-224 for the 2-meter ham band usage (w/photos) -- http://www.w4dex.com/kc4fwc/modify.htm Article: 228071 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 16:50:06 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Frequency Sensitivity of mobile HF vertical antennas. References: <5YmdnXbPd7P7hkDZnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com> <22KDg.6271$o27.5722@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > Dave wrote: > >> Cecil --- you are begging the question!! > > > Of course I am, nobody knows *why* things are the way they > are. There is no 'why' built into quantum mechanics. There > is only probability. Why does one photon wind up in an > inner interference ring and one wind up in an outer > interference ring? Nobody knows. > Methinks you have left the world of deterministic Physics and moved into Quantum Physics. Such comments do not contribute to the answer. You are not using Quantum mechanics to try to explain to me what is happening. You are using transmission line models. Stick to the transmission line model. I thought antenna EM Physics was deterministic. - - - - RE: your model. You stated: "Anything done below the coil affects the number of degrees subtracted >from the antenna by the bottom element to coil interface. Anything done to the stinger affects the number of degrees added to the antenna by the coil to stinger interface. For a given element delta length, the number-of-degrees-added effect is greater than the number- of-degrees-subtracted effect." The 4 inch spring is approximately 0.646 degrees long at 5.3 MHz. Original: Source-----Z01A-----+-----Z02-----+-----Z01B-----open Case #1: Source-----Z01A-----+-----Z02-----+-0.646-+-----Z01B-----open Case #2: Source-----Z01A-----+-0.646-+-----Z02-----+-----Z01B-----open Z01A has not changed. Z02 has not changed. Z01B has not changed. [The L/D ratios for these components have remained the same and the Zo of each element is therefore the same.] The physical characteristics of 0.646 have not changed. The Capacitance to the coil is the same in either case. Only the location has changed. Do you claim the complex impedance of 0.646[case 1] is different from the complex impedance of 0.646[case 2]. Why? Or, do you claim the net Z01B + 0.646[Case 1} is now electrically longer, in degrees, than Z01A + 0.646[case 2]. Why? Article: 228073 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Walter Maxwell Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Message-ID: References: <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <4ISdnRvCaL1vC0LZRVnyhw@bt.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:36:33 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:15:38 +0100, "Reg Edwards" wrote: > >"Walter Maxwell" wrote >> Reg, I had never given much thought to the series relationship of >the >> capacitance between turns. I had always considered them as being in >parallel, >> thus the honeycomb, or the basket-weave configurations to minimize >the interturn >> capacitance. Have I misconstrued the purpose of those >configurations? >> >> Do I also understand you correctly that with a specified length of >the solenoid, >> and a given diameter, the total interturn capacitance is independent >of the >> number of turns, because the capacitance between turns adds in >series to the >> same value regardless of the number of turns? >> >==================================== >Walt, > >As I said, I was referring only to the solenoid form. > >Below the self-resonant frequency and for some way above it, the >distributed self-capacitance is equivalent to a lumped capacitor >across the ends of the coil. Coi > >Because capacitances between adjacent turns are in series with each >other, the capacitance between turns only matters when there are only >one or two turns. So, for ordinary proportioned coils, when there are >more than a few turns, the self-capacitance tends to become >independent of the number of turns, wire diameter and wire spacing. > >The wire turns can be considered to form the outside of a Faraday >cage. > >To calculate self capacitance, consider wire spacing to be zero. When >isolated in space we have the capacitance between the two fat halves >of a dipole. Which is calculable from length and diameter of the coil, >and is equivalent to a lumped capacitance between its ends, which may >be used to calculate the self-resonant frequency. > >Or the self-resonant frequency can be calculated directly from >dimensions and number of turns. > >In the past I have measured the self-resonant frequency of coils of >all sorts of dimensions. From antenna loading coils, coax choke >coils, to 6 feet long, 1 inch diameter, 1000 turns, 160-meter helical >antennas. In all cases measurement results agree with the calculating >formula within the uncertainties of the measured input data. >---- >Reg. > Thanks, Reg, for the valuable insight. It does pay to read the posts made by one G4FGQ. Walt Article: 228074 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44DFA5CF.6080201@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:21:03 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44DEADA7.5010806@fuse.net> Cecil Moore wrote: > jawod wrote: > >> If you are confident in your intelligence, why do you need validation? > > > In my case, my wife's best friend's husband, who was a member > of MENSA, made a bet with me that I couldn't qualify for MENSA. > If I won, he would pay for the exam and my first year's dues. > If I lost, I was out the cost of the exam and dinner for 4. I suppose you two argue over who has the lower number and how much harder it USED to be to get into MENSA. :) Article: 228075 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44DFA6A6.2020708@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:24:38 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> Olie wrote: >>>My MENSA membership number is 1006281. >>>What's your MENSA membership number? >>>-- >>>73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp >> >>A MENSA membership means you have a high intelligence quotient. A high >>intelligence quotient does not necessarily mean you know anything, only >>that if you apply yourself that you have the ability to learn more easily >>than an average person. I know some very lazy MENSA members that can't >>even spell a large number of the words they use. >> >>In other words, even people above average intelligence can be and often >>are too lazy to learn. They do manage to apply what they do know better >>than most. >> > > > Mensa - who gives a damned? Most of the "brilliant" people I've ever met - > had their thumbs up their ass when it came to doing the basic things in > life - they can't do them. What the hell good is a "brilliant" person if > they're too stupid to know how or lazy to do "basic" things? If having a > Mensa number means you're bankrupt in common sense or "lazy", I'd rather not > be a member - thank you. Often, it is "common sense" which gets you > through - NOT "brilliance". From all I've ever heard and /or seen - > "brilliance" and "common sense" don't go hand in hand. Sitting in a chair > with a bunch of books behind you to make you "appear" smart and not getting > off your lazy ass to use it or to further your education - is not a > "productive" person. I know a few welfare bums who fall into that > description- "appear" smart, "act" smart - lazy as hell. Being in the center > of a University Library with books on most any subject - is NOT going to > make you any more intelligent if you don't venture to "learn". Even at that, > if you don't use it, you lose it. > > ............. > This is funny as all getout > > Obviously the person claiming to be a Mensa member has poked a figurative > finger into your soft spot. Sensitive, are you? Taking umbrage? Apparently > you feel that the alleged Mensa member has slighted you either directly or > indirectly, ergo your lengthy and uncalled-for diatribe. > Of course, in your self-righteous response you probably did not consider the > possibility that the "Mensa" person was a troll. Makes no difference, does > it? He certainly set you off on a rant. > I give him five stars for that. > > Sit back, read the post again and view it with a bit of a tongue-in-cheek > sense of humor. It will lower your blood pressure. Even if the guy IS a > Mensa member, by the simple fact of him bragging about same shows that he is > a blowgut braggart whose ego has gotten in the way of common sense. > I doubt he is what he says he is, but he certainly elicited a wordy response > from you. > He wins. You lost. > > > > If MENSA membership is important to you, fine. Most of us find it a bit pretentious and downright silly. If someone wants to use MENSA to elevate themselves above the rest, they are perched on very rickety stilts. Article: 228076 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Frequency Sensitivity of mobile HF vertical antennas. References: <5YmdnXbPd7P7hkDZnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com> <22KDg.6271$o27.5722@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:39:02 GMT Dave wrote: > Or, do you claim the net Z01B + 0.646[Case 1} is now electrically > longer, in degrees, than Z01A + 0.646[case 2]. Why? I already explained how to prove to yourself why those two cases are different. Please perform the Smith Chart gymnastics and then report your findings. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228077 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <44DFA6A6.2020708@fuse.net> Message-ID: <0VNDg.5150$%j7.4201@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:42:04 GMT jawod wrote: > If MENSA membership is important to you, fine. Most of us find it a bit > pretentious and downright silly. Ditto for the Morse code testing requirement. That was the whole point. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228078 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Rusty Shackleford" References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:46:20 GMT "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:EFFDg.12167$gY6.3958@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com... > Truth is, I got into MENSA because someone lost a bet and > paid for my exam and dues. I am not presently a member of > MENSA because the yearly dues exceed my threshold of pain. > But I am a member of OOTC and FISTS, #8741. :-) Question (this is not a flame):. 1. Is the ability to decode Morse Code transmissions, in one's own wet modem (brain), at high speed, proportional or even relevant in any possible way to one's ability to pass a mensa test and be accepted for membership? Is mensa membership useful? Is mensa membership a measure of Morse wet modem throughput? Cecil, I think you already answered all of the above as 'no'. That doesn't mean I like the the brand of motorcycle you drive. I do not. I like BMW's that don't require a toolkit for every 100 miles on the road. 2. Or, (as I suspect), is Morse ability only useful after you have purchased one's HF equipment, now that one has passed the test (whose investment you otherwise would not have made until you passed the trivial but compulsory 5wpm test for Morse code proficiency) to have to have fun and prevent future alien attacks? I am an extra class op who passed 13 wpm several years ago, can do 25 wpm now and getting better all the time just because of heavy (and fun) Morse action on the cw sub-bands, and wanting to know what people are saying and being able to communicate back; in fact, CW is almost as good as psk31. 3. Just the same, how much does this mensa thing cost? Is it worth a dinner for 4? Article: 228079 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:04:21 GMT Rusty Shackleford wrote: > 1. Is the ability to decode Morse Code transmissions, in one's own wet modem > (brain), at high speed, proportional or even relevant in any possible way to > one's ability to pass a mensa test and be accepted for membership? Is mensa > membership useful? Is mensa membership a measure of Morse wet modem > throughput? Rusty, let me answer you this way. In my humble opinion, a MENSA level IQ is worth magnitudes more to its possessor than is Morse code skill even within the Amateur Radio Service. If all the coded hams with IQ's less than 100 were transformed into nocode techs with MENSA level IQ's, the ARS would be much better off and a lot less prone to silliness. The ARRL might even stop publishing those gross technical errors, e.g. reflections don't exist. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228080 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Frequency Sensitivity of mobile HF vertical antennas. References: <5YmdnXbPd7P7hkDZnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@comcast.com> <22KDg.6271$o27.5722@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:08:56 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Dave wrote: >> Or, do you claim the net Z01B + 0.646[Case 1} is now electrically >> longer, in degrees, than Z01A + 0.646[case 2]. Why? > > I already explained how to prove to yourself why those > two cases are different. Please perform the Smith Chart > gymnastics and then report your findings. If one takes one foot of stinger and transfers it to the base element section, the antenna length remains the same and the resonant frequency increases. I assume you already knew that. So of course, 0.646 is electrically longer when it is on top of the coil than when it is on the bottom of the coil. The Smith Chart exercise will show why that is true. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228081 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David 01" References: <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 19:28:33 -0400 Message-ID: <3c8fb$44dfb595$4b75c8a5$16107@ALLTEL.NET> I wish everybody here would use their MENSA and take this thread and the other non swap related garbage out of rec.radio.swap. "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:VdODg.5454$%j7.187@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... > Rusty Shackleford wrote: > > 1. Is the ability to decode Morse Code transmissions, in one's own wet modem > > (brain), at high speed, proportional or even relevant in any possible way to > > one's ability to pass a mensa test and be accepted for membership? Is mensa > > membership useful? Is mensa membership a measure of Morse wet modem > > throughput? > > Rusty, let me answer you this way. In my humble opinion, a MENSA > level IQ is worth magnitudes more to its possessor than is Morse > code skill even within the Amateur Radio Service. If all the coded > hams with IQ's less than 100 were transformed into nocode techs > with MENSA level IQ's, the ARS would be much better off and a lot > less prone to silliness. The ARRL might even stop publishing those > gross technical errors, e.g. reflections don't exist. > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > Article: 228082 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 13 Aug 2006 17:21:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1155514894.111278.191790@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: David 01 wrote: > I wish everybody here would use their MENSA and take this thread and the > other non swap related garbage out of rec.radio.swap. either use your ignore thread comnad if you don't have one just try not reading it Article: 228083 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 13 Aug 2006 17:21:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1155514894.144629.267820@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: David 01 wrote: > I wish everybody here would use their MENSA and take this thread and the > other non swap related garbage out of rec.radio.swap. either use your ignore thread comnad if you don't have one just try not reading it Article: 228084 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "L." References: <1154574315.819259.204140@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176094.212232.56330@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44DF2840.8040500@fuse.net> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 21:28:40 -0400 Message-ID: <44dfd1ce$0$6606$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> "jawod" wrote in message news:44DF2840.8040500@fuse.net... > >> >> >> In the example YOU give - Cecil - it could be taken either way. In the >> case of the "frequencies" you're to operate on for a given license and >> band - YES - you could simply "memorize" (not really commit to memory) >> those frequencies - for the exam purposes and just refer to a chart from >> there in. OR you COULD "memorize" them (actually committing to memory) >> for the purpose of NOT having to use a chart! However, once you use those >> frequencies after a while - especially if active - then you "would" tend >> to "memorize" (for life) those frequencies. Yes, it is definately >> splitting hairs! >> >> L. > that makes no sense. to memorize is to commit to memory, by definition. RE-READ IT - there were TWO people here in the beginning "splitting hairs" about the use of or perhaps MIS use of the word "memorization. One was leaning towards "memorizing" "ANSWERS" purely to satisfy an exam....... i.e; ABCD.......... it isn't quite that simple. On the other hand, the other argument was in the "true" sense of the word - TO MEMORIZE (commit to memory for life). Article: 228085 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "kb9rqz@hotmail.com" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 13 Aug 2006 19:13:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1155521625.916501.7000@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: L. wrote: > "jawod" wrote in message news:44DF2840.8040500@fuse.net... > > > >> > RE-READ IT - there were TWO people here in the beginning "splitting hairs" > about the use of or perhaps MIS use of the word "memorization. One was > leaning towards "memorizing" "ANSWERS" purely to satisfy an exam....... i.e; > ABCD.......... it isn't quite that simple. On the other hand, the other > argument was in the "true" sense of the word - TO MEMORIZE (commit to memory > for life). what it has been about is that couple of folks want to make out that somehow the NoCodeTechs are some how doing something altogether different from what has been done for years Article: 228086 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "L." References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <44DFA6A6.2020708@fuse.net> <0VNDg.5150$%j7.4201@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:38:01 -0400 Message-ID: <44dfe20f$0$6610$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:0VNDg.5150$%j7.4201@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... > jawod wrote: >> If MENSA membership is important to you, fine. Most of us find it a bit >> pretentious and downright silly. > > Ditto for the Morse code testing requirement. > That was the whole point. > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Let me set something straight. "I" was NOT beating my chest about "CODE". I was only in the argument with regard to the use/misuse of the word "Memorization". "I" think code has its place - but not as it once did. It sure isn't keeping the bands clean by keeping it in place. "I" don't use code - that often. I think also, it "can" be fun to learn for those who may want to try it. Some people may - as has been proven, still - others won't - which also has been proven. THAT IS MY stance on code. As to the "mis"spelling of "genius", hey - what can I say - I'm human, I DO make mistakes. I don't rely on "spell check" techniques - so ............ an error does tend to sneak through from time to time. It doesn't matter one iota to me if you do code or not. "I" surely am not here to pass judgement on you or anyone else by that ability or inability (since some DO have trouble getting it). OR lack of interest "may" be more specific. I have quite a few people I talk to on the bands who are "NO CODE Techs. They're not interested in the code - OR wanting to climb any higher in license class. Its cool with me....... That is their thing - not mine. It sure doesn't mean we can't have a decent conversation - be it on the air via repeater, simplex, computer mode or face to face. :) L. Article: 228087 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "kb9rqz@hotmail.com" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 13 Aug 2006 20:09:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1155524999.519215.134960@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> L. wrote: > "Cecil Moore" wrote in message > news:0VNDg.5150$%j7.4201@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... > > jawod wrote: > >> If MENSA membership is important to you, fine. Most of us find it a bit > >> pretentious and downright silly. > > > > Ditto for the Morse code testing requirement. > > That was the whole point. > > -- > > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > > Let me set something straight. "I" was NOT beating my chest about "CODE you are however enging a deabte flaming people on side of the map that tend to get you "counter battery fire sir face it or not as you choose Article: 228088 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:41:30 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> a MENSA > level IQ is worth magnitudes more to its possessor than is Morse > code skill even within the Amateur Radio Service. If all the coded > hams with IQ's less than 100 were transformed into nocode techs > with MENSA level IQ's, the ARS would be much better off and a lot > less prone to silliness. The ARRL might even stop publishing those > gross technical errors, e.g. reflections don't exist. Cecil you're trolling, aren't you? If you truly believe this stuff, you're in sadder shape than I thought. Your MENSA membership is dreck, dribble, dross. With code, there is, at least, some grounding in practicality: a real world function. "Whew! I knew I was a genius but now I have PROOF!" How completely sad. MENSA has perverted the very nature of IQ in a manner not dissimilar to the way Home Owner Associations have perverted the notion of individual freedoms (guaranteed by our Constitution). Enjoy your little trophy but I'm sure you'll keep yourself insulated >from the derision you richly deserve when you bring it up in this newsgroup. I can tell that you're not a bad guy...but, the mensa thing makes you seem, I don't know, ...(fill in the blank) Be Good. Hell, be more egalitarian for once in your life! We all share a HOBBY!!!! John AB8O Article: 228089 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <8ospd2lfvgmbtpd1s6b0orl41qjudi5du5@4ax.com> <26jrd2pug4448ng9i6p69924i5jcer21a3@4ax.com> <1155402655.846630.24010@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <90ksd29a82a6ui32fpl1sshph1f9vld103@4ax.com> <1155422570.385867.308540@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:49:32 -0400 On 12 Aug 2006 15:42:50 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: >oncce you accpet that much of the testing involves memizztion the >question then comes down to where is your beef? Those who memorize answers instead of learning concepts - what you would have seen at the beginning of the thread had you paid attention. >you tread awfully close to libel there AL Look up the definition of "libel". Part of it is "malicious defamation". Calling a penny a cent isn't malicious, nor is it defamatory. > ask an lawyer if you don't believe me You need to take your own advice. Also you need to ask an English teacher - you don't seem to know the definitions of a lot of very common words. Article: 228090 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155422631.434982.49560@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:51:10 -0400 On 12 Aug 2006 15:43:51 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 14:41:33 GMT, Cecil Moore >> wrote: >> >> >Brenda Ann wrote: >> >> There's a difference between memorizing a formula or method and memorizing >> >> specific answers to specific questions. The former is called learning, and >> >> can be applied to many situations. The latter is called laziness, and >> >> teaches nothing that can be used for any other purpose. >> > >> >That is just hair-splitting. >> >> The same hair splitting as the difference between stealing money and >> earning it - they're both methods of obtaining it. >again you tread close to libel and flatout insaity There's nothing either malicious not defamatory in that. ("Who" am I defaming? "Hair"?) >> But, since you don't know the difference between "learning" and >> "memorizing", nor which subjects fall into which category, you >> probably can't see the parallel. >and again Telling you something true about yourself isn't actionable, unless done with certain intent, which you'd be hard-pressed to prove. Article: 228091 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155308267.270679.100020@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1155336873.334573.182430@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1155347488.895791.96000@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155402608.674317.299000@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:54:12 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:13:23 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:24:46 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>Your claim to know what I'm thinking better than I do? Only if your >>age is a single digit. >sure I know better Then you're claiming to be a child. >>>> >your beef has nothing to do with the tests it is to do with end of the >>>> >Hazing ritual that is a bout to occour >>>> There's a hazing rule in ham radio? Since when? >>>sure there is it is called Morse Code testing >>You don't win points by redefining words, you just make yourself look >>desperate. >no refining word HERE at any rate If you don't even know the difference between refining and redefining (they're not even close in meaning), there's no way you can discuss it. But testing for a license isn't hazing by any accepted definition regardless of what's being tested for. >you are dancing around sutblies in the menaing of emorizing like mad In your mind, because you can't understand the simple distinctions. Article: 228092 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <9vsvd2lfgc7m2cv9hds5h79ri5hchdk6uf@4ax.com> References: <1155265525.310166.4760@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <4fspd2p7qecou8mmsf5tipdh59nfo5l2qs@4ax.com> <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <4bbqd2pmudip3s3j0geqbookdclrvqrq0s@4ax.com> <1155402696.148105.304140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <09ksd2d8kdt36t61dsk27espsee0e6i2o3@4ax.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:55:15 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:10:00 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:09:02 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>Why don't you stay out of discussions you don't understand? We know >>you're a fool, why keep proving it? Read Samuel Clemens, at least. >why don't you stay out of discussions that show so as aold fool not >honest enough he blowing smoke Parroting what I say doesn't make you look educated. >you are arguing over a difference that does not exist certain not as a >some sharp line In your mind. >http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ The fact that you posted something on your blog doesn't make it definitive, or even correct. Article: 228093 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <65osd21lq4gps07j6atbcg9su4cfcq5sa7@4ax.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:56:24 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:14:08 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:09:47 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 15:01:51 GMT, Cecil Moore >>wrote: >>>So exactly what is the "formula or method" for determining Extra >>>frequency privileges outside of memorizing them? >>Since frequency assignments aren't theory, your question is both >>irrelevant and incompetent. >since feq assignment are large part of the test they go to the core of >the matter Another case of your commenting on something you don't understand. "The core of the matter" is the difference between rote memorization and understanding - which you don't understand. Article: 228094 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:57:26 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:14:59 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:18:11 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>Any knowledgeable person knows that knowledge is valuable for its own >>sake. >and also knows that not all knowledge is equaly valuable There's a difference between "knowledge" as a class and specific knowledge - something evidently outside the scope of your knowledge. Article: 228095 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <48osd29t9np8c8srpreghml88aits2me93@4ax.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:59:30 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:16:28 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:16:39 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>>but there still ramins no need for me to ever know the differentce >>>between a collpitts and hartely occilator. >>There's no *need* for you to even know that you can use a radio to >>talk to people. >there is if I want a license for it Learn (now there's a new concept for you) the difference between "specific" and "general". >>There's a need, if we want a ham license to say that the holder of >>said license has achieved a certain level of technical competence, to >>test for that competence. Otherwise all the license says is "I have >>this piece of paper with ink on it". >no it say I have legal license to do xyz with it that is all it has >ever said In your limited experience - which is about 0% relevant to anyone else. >experhaps in the epriod where the general advanced and >Extra class all had the same preveldges Which was ... oh ... only a few decades. But you weren't licensed then, so they don't matter, right? Article: 228096 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <99tvd2193fjj37j8c9ngnlelh91t9tgqaj@4ax.com> References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44ddec1b$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <%dmDg.9451$FN2.1314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <42lsd2ddni97cu2bucrj73j36unefvptlg@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:00:50 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:17:33 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:23:13 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 15:12:59 GMT, Cecil Moore >>wrote: >>>Laziness allows one to achieve a goal by the most efficient >>>route. Some famous German military leader said he would >>>lots rather have brilliant and lazy officers than ambitious >>>and stupid ones. >>As I recall, he was also known as one of the most idiotic strategists >>the species has ever produced. His "fame" didn't stop him from being >>the almost single-handed reason his country lost its big war, did it? >>> I personally would rather see brilliant >>>and lazy amateur radio operators than ambitious and stupid >>>ones hanging on for dear life to an obsolete testing >>>requirement. >>Being both intelligent and ambitious doesn't appear on your radar? >but it is not a requirement of licensing after you have one Your comment was totally irrelevant to THIS conversation, Mark. Ham radio has nothing to do, in this context, with Hitler. Article: 228097 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <9dtvd2900p59qe44tem9ju2v1ti1e8s1sp@4ax.com> References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:02:09 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 23:51:28 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >I am too lazy I think that says it all. Article: 228098 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <7ftvd2hjsfc1t99rrkbrpbdmbcl4hn6m51@4ax.com> References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:04:16 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:37:41 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >My MENSA membership number is 1006281. There ought to be a Godwin's Rule type of rule for using the MENSA crutch. Maybe I should declare one. Klein's rule - so you lose. (The claim "I'm so intelligent that ..." proves lack of intelligence.) Article: 228099 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:04:55 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 23:57:13 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> Since frequency assignments aren't theory, your question is both >> irrelevant and incompetent. >So the questions on my Extra exam were irrelevant? No, but at least you're consistent - your response is non-responsive and incompetent. Article: 228100 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:05:46 -0400 On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 20:11:49 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 23:57:13 GMT, Cecil Moore >wrote: >>I would like to >>see one and only one entry level amateur radio exam >>leading to one brotherhood of amateur radio operators >>devoid of the jealousy, pecking order, and back-biting >>apparent in your postings and others. >amen You wouldn't be able to pass it, Mark, but you'd be the only one who would care about that. Article: 228101 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <0ltvd2hlra21i0qhc12eucks8lotga2qa3@4ax.com> References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:09:15 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:04:45 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> But, since you don't know the difference between "learning" and >> "memorizing", nor which subjects fall into which category, you >> probably can't see the parallel. >Learning is impossible without memorizing. Memorizing is possible without learning. > You are simply ignorant I'm not the one who doesn't understand the discussion, inverting "memorizing" and "learning". Maybe you need to stop being so lazy and actually learn something. >Is English your second language? Third. My internal language is (was) my first. Brooklynese was my second. English is my third. > Again, from Websters Again, Webster's is a compendium of common usage, not an unabridged (regardless of the trademark) authoritative source. those who cling to dictionary definitions as authoritative announce their lack of actual knowledge. Article: 228102 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:10:44 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:08:14 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> Cecil Moore wrote: >>> Here's the crux of your communications problem. From Webster's: >> "The absolutely worst source of the definition of a technical term is >> a non-technical dictionary. >"Memorize" is NOT a technical word. As a technical term (the usage here) it is, by definition. > Please get >back to us when you have talked the IEEE into >putting your special definition of "memorize" >into their technical dictionary. As soon as the IEEE becomes a body of experts in the usage of the English language. In the meantime, why don't you go and learn something? Anything. New experiences can be quite enjoyable. Article: 228103 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44ddec1b$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <%dmDg.9451$FN2.1314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <42lsd2ddni97cu2bucrj73j36unefvptlg@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:12:21 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:22:31 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> Cecil Moore wrote: >>> Laziness allows one to achieve a goal by the most efficient >>> route. Some famous German military leader said he would >>> lots rather have brilliant and lazy officers than ambitious >>> and stupid ones. >> >> As I recall, he was also known as one of the most idiotic strategists >> the species has ever produced. His "fame" didn't stop him from being >> the almost single-handed reason his country lost its big war, did it? > >This was a WWI German officer and I don't recall his name. Then it's just an assertion of yours, isn't it? >> Being both intelligent and ambitious doesn't appear on your radar? >The pride, lust, and greed usually accompanying ambition are >a good percentage of the seven deadly sins. Sorry, I don't share your religious incredulity. I don't recognize "sin" as anything but a nonsense word. Article: 228104 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:14:47 -0400 On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:48:36 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Brenda Ann wrote: >> Some >> advanced appliance operators know enough to connect other peripheral devices >> such as digital mode devices or power amplifiers, but do not know how these >> devices work, nor how to construct such devices. >An amateur radio license is an entry level license. There are a few classes - ONE class is entry level. > It is not a university degree. When I obtained all amateur privileges >at the age of 15, I didn't know squat. "When I robbed a man at the age of 15, I wasn't arrested." Does that make robbery legal? Your experience is only that - your experience, it's not definitive. > All I had done is memorize >the ARRL License Manual. Six years later I had a EE degree. What >is wrong with learning the technical stuff after one obtains his >entry level license? Nothing, if you don't care that the license means nothing more than that you have it. Article: 228105 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> <1155176286.445811.289510@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1155265525.310166.4760@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <4fspd2p7qecou8mmsf5tipdh59nfo5l2qs@4ax.com> <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155433505.131116.226510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155434298.409922.126140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:15:18 -0400 On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: >hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: >> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? >ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. Article: 228106 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: eternalsquire@comcast.net Subject: performance of Gorge-mounted dipoles? Date: 13 Aug 2006 23:02:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1155535365.682034.199490@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> All, I have an antenna puzzler for you all. My trailer is sitting on one side of a 60 foot high mesa resting on top of a vast desert plain. On the edge of the mesa is a gorge that opens outward, forming a Vee. The two points of the Vee, on the mesa, are about 180 feet apart. The bottom of the gorge slopes gently down to the plain, such that the edges of the Vee are 40 foot higher than the bottom of the gorge, and 30 feet away from where the gorge begins to open from the mesa. What this means is that I could possibly hang a rope mounted dipole in free space, using guy anchors hammered into the Vee points in the mesa dirt. I possibly could even hang reflectors at the appropriate intervals on either side of the dipole to create a non-rotating wire Yagi. My question to you all is this: will the antenna's performance be defined by the fact that it is hanging 60 feet in free space over the plain, or will this be nullified by the geometry of the gorge immediately behind and below the antenna? Keep in mind that soil conductivity is very poor in the desert. I plan on using this for transmitting only, I discovered two lines of wood supported wire fencing on which I could mount lay wire atop for receiving beverages. Each of these lines go on for thousands of feet and cross at right angles only a hundred or so feet >from the trailer. Thoughts? The Eternal Squire Article: 228107 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" Subject: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 07:44:10 GMT I`m building a QFH NOAA weathersat antenna and wish to use low loss t/v coax which is 72ohm; but is more manageable and less lossy at VHF than the 50ohm RG58 specified over a 100ft run!.... ( RF pre-amps aint cheap! )....... What are the pros and cons... can i use CT100 72/75ohm..... i believe i can but, will the impedence affect the 4 turn choke ????... Thanks. Lee......de G6ZSG..... Article: 228108 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Helmut Wabnig <...._.--_.-_-..._-._.._--.@.-_---_-._*_.-_-> Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:11:10 +0200 Message-ID: <2ub0e25lgt2cj4la0idocbmes2sdbl283g@4ax.com> References: On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 07:44:10 GMT, "Lee" wrote: >I`m building a QFH NOAA weathersat antenna and wish to use low loss t/v coax >which is >72ohm; but is more manageable and less lossy at VHF than the 50ohm RG58 >specified >over a 100ft run!.... ( RF pre-amps aint cheap! )....... > >What are the pros and cons... can i use CT100 72/75ohm..... i believe i can >but, will the impedence affect >the 4 turn choke ????... > >Thanks. > >Lee......de G6ZSG..... > It will work perfectly, because the TV coax is good HF quality. Why do you use a 4 turn choke? w. Article: 228109 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" References: <2ub0e25lgt2cj4la0idocbmes2sdbl283g@4ax.com> Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:28:17 GMT "Helmut Wabnig" <...._.--_.-_-..._-._.._--.@.-_---_-._*_.-_-> wrote in message news:2ub0e25lgt2cj4la0idocbmes2sdbl283g@4ax.com... > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 07:44:10 GMT, "Lee" > wrote: < > > > It will work perfectly, because the TV coax is good HF quality. > > Why do you use a 4 turn choke? > > w. Sorry, typo!.........Balun!! Thanks, thought so. Lee.....de G6ZSG...... Article: 228110 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Slohand" Subject: another free resource for HAMs Date: 14 Aug 2006 04:03:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1155553389.563773.36890@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> I checked out http://www.usrepeaters.com, nice website. Article: 228111 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: Moving again... have to make a new antenna (sigh) Date: 14 Aug 2006 05:25:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1155558352.295942.136850@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: <1155429052.626794.225160@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> An end fed long wire is your only possibility given the rules you set forth... A 5 to 10 wavelength wire should help... Model it or look in the antenna handbook for the patterns... However, my "beat the rules instinct" kicks in... What is to stop you >from running open wire line a quarter mile out to a vertical? Even if you have to go out after dark and stand the vertical up and take it down at dawn, eh! denny Article: 228112 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: performance of Gorge-mounted dipoles? Date: 14 Aug 2006 05:27:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1155558428.602187.281590@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: <1155535365.682034.199490@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> It has been done... It works... The biggest one I am aware of was a 160 meter wire beam... denny Article: 228113 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: Re:'Paint-On' Antenna Test Flight Paves Way For Next-Generation High-Altitude Airships Date: 14 Aug 2006 05:30:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1155558649.740416.312170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: In the end, self adhesive aluminum foil will be used and will be one tenth the price with 4 to 7 times better performance...... denny Article: 228114 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "w8ji@akorn.net" Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Date: 14 Aug 2006 05:52:47 -0700 Message-ID: <1155559967.075962.132360@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <1154658861.371239.283890@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Is Cecil still beating that same old dead horse that only he rides? Walter Maxwell wrote: > On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 14:30:34 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: > > >Reg Edwards wrote: > >> I agree, a coil at sufficiently high frequencies begins to behave > >> something like a transmission line with a very low velocity factor. > > > >Just below its self-resonant frequency, it behaves somewhat > >like a transmission line of less than 90 degrees. > >snip > >But maybe one hoot. :-) My 75m bugcatcher coil is operated > >relatively close to its measured self-resonant frequency of > >6.6 MHz. If I wound a bugcatcher coil to be self-resonant > >on 4 MHz and then used 2/3 of that coil for a loading coil > >on 4 MHz, its VF would not change and its electrical length > >would be 60 degrees accompanied by the appropriate 60 degree > >delay through the coil. > > Hi Cecil & Reg > > Sometime during the '70s I measured the self-resonant frequency of the 80m > Hustler loading coil, 6MHz. The series resistance of that coil was 31 ohms at 4 > MHz. That is why they claimed 'lower swr than with othe brands'. What a fraud. > On the other hand, I also measured the Webster KW-80, self-resonant at 14.0 MHz, > with a series resistance of 8 ohms at 4 MHz. I reported this on Page 6-12 in > Reflections. > > So I ask you, Cecil, why would you want a bugcatcher self-resonant at 4 MHz for > operation at 4.0 MHz, even if you used only 2/3 of it as a loading coil. Looking > just to heat the coil instead of radiating the energy into space? > > Walt, W2DU Article: 228115 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:55:58 GMT jawod wrote: > you're trolling, aren't you? No, I'm wishing that every amateur radio operator had an above average IQ. Don't you agree that would be a good thing for them and the ARS? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228116 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:05:37 GMT Al Klein wrote: >> An amateur radio license is an entry level license. > > There are a few classes - ONE class is entry level. They are all entry level. The Extra class license allows entry into the Extra class frequency segments. An amateur license is not a status symbol. Its only worth is the privileges granted. In the 1950's, generals, conditionals, advanced, and extras all had the same frequency privileges. I would like to see one amateur license granting all amateur privileges so this crazy irrational pecking order nonsense would cease. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228117 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes References: <1154658861.371239.283890@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <4_FAg.4435$uo6.84@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> <9pudnS88mudASEHZRVny3g@bt.com> <2u6Dg.7767$FN2.5867@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> <1155559967.075962.132360@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:12:42 GMT w8ji@akorn.net wrote: > Is Cecil still beating that same old dead horse that only he rides? Predictable ad hominem comment with zero technical content. Here's a brain teaser for you, Tom. Assume you have a 45 degree long piece of lossless Z01=50 ohm line and a 45 degree long piece of lossless Z02=600 ohm line connected together. 1. With the other end open, what is the impedance looking into the Z01=50 ohm end? How many electrical degrees are in the stub? 2. With the other end open, what is the impedance looking into the Z02=600 ohm end? How many electrical degrees are in the stub? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228118 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Walter Maxwell Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> References: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 09:26:28 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 07:44:10 GMT, "Lee" wrote: >I`m building a QFH NOAA weathersat antenna and wish to use low loss t/v coax >which is >72ohm; but is more manageable and less lossy at VHF than the 50ohm RG58 >specified >over a 100ft run!.... ( RF pre-amps aint cheap! )....... > >What are the pros and cons... can i use CT100 72/75ohm..... i believe i can >but, will the impedence affect >the 4 turn choke ????... > >Thanks. > >Lee......de G6ZSG..... > Hi Lee, Consider this: If your QFH has a 50-ohm terminal impedance, the mismatch is only 1.44: 1. Therefore, the loss due to the mismatch is 0,14 dB, insignifiant--use the 72-ohm line and forget the miniscule mismatch. Even if the mismatch was 2:1, the reflection loss is only 0.51 dB. Concerning the 4-turn choke, nothing happens to the matching operation, because nothing inside the coax changes due to the coiling of the coax. Walt, W2DU Article: 228119 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Dan Richardson Subject: Re: how many forum members to change a lightbulb? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 06:28:40 -0700 Message-ID: References: <3e81c$44dee622$471d24de$25131@ALLTEL.NET> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 04:42:47 -0400, "Fred Hambrecht" wrote: >How many forum members does it take to change a lightbulb? > [snip a very good explanation] AMEN! You preach and I'll turn the pages. Danny, K6MHE Article: 228120 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <4ISdnRvCaL1vC0LZRVnyhw@bt.com> Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:05:50 +0100 Message-ID: > >"Walter Maxwell" wrote > >> Reg, I had never given much thought to the series relationship of > >the > >> capacitance between turns. I had always considered them as being in > >parallel, > >> thus the honeycomb, or the basket-weave configurations to minimize > >the interturn > >> capacitance. Have I misconstrued the purpose of those > >configurations? > >> > >> Do I also understand you correctly that with a specified length of > >the solenoid, > >> and a given diameter, the total interturn capacitance is independent > >of the > >> number of turns, because the capacitance between turns adds in > >series to the > >> same value regardless of the number of turns? > >> > >==================================== > >Walt, > > > >As I said, I was referring only to the solenoid form. > > > >Below the self-resonant frequency and for some way above it, the > >distributed self-capacitance is equivalent to a lumped capacitor > >across the ends of the coil. > > > >Because capacitances between adjacent turns are in series with each > >other, the capacitance between turns only matters when there are only > >one or two turns. So, for ordinary proportioned coils, when there are > >more than a few turns, the self-capacitance tends to become > >independent of the number of turns, wire diameter and wire spacing. > > > >The wire turns can be considered to form the outside of a Faraday > >cage. > > > >To calculate self capacitance, consider wire spacing to be zero. When > >isolated in space we have the capacitance between the two fat halves > >of a dipole. Which is calculable from length and diameter of the coil, > >and is equivalent to a lumped capacitance between its ends, which may > >be used to calculate the self-resonant frequency. > > > >Or the self-resonant frequency can be calculated directly from > >dimensions and number of turns. > > > >In the past I have measured the self-resonant frequency of coils of > >all sorts of dimensions. From antenna loading coils, coax choke > >coils, to 6 feet long, 1 inch diameter, 1000 turns, 160-meter helical > >antennas. In all cases measurement results agree with the calculating > >formula within the uncertainties of the measured input data. > >---- > >Reg. > > ========================================= > Thanks, Reg, for the valuable insight. It does pay to read the posts made > by one G4FGQ. > > Walt ========================================= Walt, Yes, there is only one G4FGQ. Although I confess I don't spend much time on the air these days. Poor health! When it comes to antennas, one reason why I don't publicise the source code of my programs is that they are full of proven little tricks like the foregoing which give answers in the right american ball-park. There is always the danger that unjustified, unqualified criticism would spoil the confidence and integrity to be placed in them by novices. If for any reason you don't like a program you can always have your money back! One day I might list my 60 years of engineering experience but it may be construed as bragging. And a compliment from you, Walt, is a compliment indeed! ---- Reg. Article: 228121 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:32:06 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1155265525.310166.4760@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <4fspd2p7qecou8mmsf5tipdh59nfo5l2qs@4ax.com> <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <4bbqd2pmudip3s3j0geqbookdclrvqrq0s@4ax.com> <1155402696.148105.304140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <09ksd2d8kdt36t61dsk27espsee0e6i2o3@4ax.com> <9vsvd2lfgc7m2cv9hds5h79ri5hchdk6uf@4ax.com> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:55:15 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:10:00 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:09:02 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: > >>>Why don't you stay out of discussions you don't understand? We know >>>you're a fool, why keep proving it? Read Samuel Clemens, at least. > >>why don't you stay out of discussions that show so as aold fool not >>honest enough he blowing smoke > >Parroting what I say doesn't make you look educated. indeed it would not but your point? > >>you are arguing over a difference that does not exist certain not as a >>some sharp line > >In your mind. or in yreality no sudden dramtic change occoured in testing exists > >>http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ > >The fact that you posted something on your blog doesn't make it >definitive, or even correct. never claimed otherwise now you are attacking for a having a sig line? http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228122 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:32:41 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1155176286.445811.289510@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1155265525.310166.4760@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <4fspd2p7qecou8mmsf5tipdh59nfo5l2qs@4ax.com> <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155433505.131116.226510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155434298.409922.126140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:15:18 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" >wrote: > >>hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > >>> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? > >>ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please > >Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. no I did ot know that answer and you lied they did http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228123 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:34:58 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1155336873.334573.182430@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1155347488.895791.96000@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155402608.674317.299000@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:54:12 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:13:23 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:24:46 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: > >>>Your claim to know what I'm thinking better than I do? Only if your >>>age is a single digit. > >>sure I know better > >Then you're claiming to be a child. nope you are claiming to something contary to fact > >>>>> >your beef has nothing to do with the tests it is to do with end of the >>>>> >Hazing ritual that is a bout to occour > >>>>> There's a hazing rule in ham radio? Since when? > >>>>sure there is it is called Morse Code testing > >>>You don't win points by redefining words, you just make yourself look >>>desperate. > >>no refining word HERE at any rate > >If you don't even know the difference between refining and redefining >(they're not even close in meaning), there's no way you can discuss >it. But testing for a license isn't hazing by any accepted definition >regardless of what's being tested for. you are worng it becoming hazing when the subject of the test is unrelated to the prevlegdes it grannts like testing for Guases law for the Post office so is morse code testing for the ARS > >>you are dancing around sutblies in the menaing of emorizing like mad > >In your mind, because you can't understand the simple distinctions. and in the mind of engineer at least 2 of em and countless others as well http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228124 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:34:22 +0100 Message-ID: <6ZidnbhHj4zMF33ZnZ2dnUVZ8qqdnZ2d@bt.com> Please leave me out of this. I'm mentally handicapped! I don't know, never did know, how to use an old fashioned, mid-20th century Smith Chart. ---- Reg. "Walter Maxwell" wrote in message news:0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com... > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 07:44:10 GMT, "Lee" wrote: > > >I`m building a QFH NOAA weathersat antenna and wish to use low loss t/v coax > >which is > >72ohm; but is more manageable and less lossy at VHF than the 50ohm RG58 > >specified > >over a 100ft run!.... ( RF pre-amps aint cheap! )....... > > > >What are the pros and cons... can i use CT100 72/75ohm..... i believe i can > >but, will the impedence affect > >the 4 turn choke ????... > > > >Thanks. > > > >Lee......de G6ZSG..... > > > Hi Lee, > > Consider this: If your QFH has a 50-ohm terminal impedance, the mismatch is only > 1.44: 1. Therefore, the loss due to the mismatch is 0,14 dB, insignifiant--use > the 72-ohm line and forget the miniscule mismatch. > > Even if the mismatch was 2:1, the reflection loss is only 0.51 dB. > > Concerning the 4-turn choke, nothing happens to the matching operation, because > nothing inside the coax changes due to the coiling of the coax. > > Walt, W2DU Article: 228125 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:36:29 -0400 Message-ID: References: <8ospd2lfvgmbtpd1s6b0orl41qjudi5du5@4ax.com> <26jrd2pug4448ng9i6p69924i5jcer21a3@4ax.com> <1155402655.846630.24010@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <90ksd29a82a6ui32fpl1sshph1f9vld103@4ax.com> <1155422570.385867.308540@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:49:32 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On 12 Aug 2006 15:42:50 -0700, "an old friend" >wrote: > >>oncce you accpet that much of the testing involves memizztion the >>question then comes down to where is your beef? > >Those who memorize answers instead of learning concepts - what you >would have seen at the beginning of the thread had you paid attention. I did your point are a defference that makes no deffenerce that you can explain > >>you tread awfully close to libel there AL > >Look up the definition of "libel". Part of it is "malicious >defamation". Calling a penny a cent isn't malicious, nor is it >defamatory. but calling someone a cheat on federal requirement is > >> ask an lawyer if you don't believe me > >You need to take your own advice. Also you need to ask an English >teacher - you don't seem to know the definitions of a lot of very >common words. that is your peoblem dancing over minutia you don't seem to understand http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228126 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jerry Martes" References: Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:37:01 GMT "Lee" wrote in message news:eRVDg.42175$Ca.14308@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk... > I`m building a QFH NOAA weathersat antenna and wish to use low loss t/v > coax > which is > 72ohm; but is more manageable and less lossy at VHF than the 50ohm RG58 > specified > over a 100ft run!.... ( RF pre-amps aint cheap! )....... > > What are the pros and cons... can i use CT100 72/75ohm..... i believe i > can > but, will the impedence affect > the 4 turn choke ????... > > Thanks. > > Lee......de G6ZSG..... Hi Lee There are alot of affordable amplifiers designed for TV that you could use at the base of your QFH. You might consider building your owm amplifier to fit in the base of the QFH. I wouldnt recomend the use of a pre-amp at the antenna for NOAA satelite station. They often cause more problems than they solve. All Electronics has alot of ferrite tubes that can be used to fit over the coax so you wouldnt need the "4 turn choke". Jerry Article: 228127 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:37:12 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <65osd21lq4gps07j6atbcg9su4cfcq5sa7@4ax.com> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:56:24 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:14:08 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:09:47 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: >>>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 15:01:51 GMT, Cecil Moore >>>wrote: > >>>>So exactly what is the "formula or method" for determining Extra >>>>frequency privileges outside of memorizing them? > >>>Since frequency assignments aren't theory, your question is both >>>irrelevant and incompetent. > >>since feq assignment are large part of the test they go to the core of >>the matter > >Another case of your commenting on something you don't understand. >"The core of the matter" is the difference between rote memorization >and understanding - which you don't understand. no the core of the matter is that there is no matter just you and other trying toalter hisoory http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228128 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:39:45 -0400 Message-ID: <7l21e2dvu794qnmr8gfqnicusbe9epf2r4@4ax.com> References: <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:05:46 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 20:11:49 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 23:57:13 GMT, Cecil Moore >>wrote: > >>>I would like to >>>see one and only one entry level amateur radio exam >>>leading to one brotherhood of amateur radio operators >>>devoid of the jealousy, pecking order, and back-biting >>>apparent in your postings and others. >>amen > >You wouldn't be able to pass it, Mark, but you'd be the only one who >would care about that. I would certainly be able to pass it your effort to smeear anybody that disagrees with you not withstanding or indeed if you succeeded in producing a test I could not pass you would exclude a lot of people besides me and kill the ARS which seems to be your objecctive wether you know it or not further if you produced a test that some woth an MS in GeoPhysics could not pass it likely would ntot stand a court challenges anyway http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228129 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:40:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1q21e2tet4e0c8n6436ae0bhfl3d1nq3em@4ax.com> References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:04:55 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 23:57:13 GMT, Cecil Moore >wrote: > >>Al Klein wrote: >>> Since frequency assignments aren't theory, your question is both >>> irrelevant and incompetent. > >>So the questions on my Extra exam were irrelevant? > >No, but at least you're consistent - your response is non-responsive >and incompetent. no they are on point http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228130 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: <0Y%Dg.94553$9d4.76382@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:41:00 GMT "Walter Maxwell" wrote in message news:0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com... > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 07:44:10 GMT, "Lee" wrote: > > >I`m building a QFH NOAA weathersat antenna and wish to use low loss t/v coax > >which is > >72ohm; but is more manageable and less lossy at VHF than the 50ohm RG58 > >specified > >over a 100ft run!.... ( RF pre-amps aint cheap! )....... > > > >What are the pros and cons... can i use CT100 72/75ohm..... i believe i can > >but, will the impedence affect > >the 4 turn choke ????... > > > >Thanks. > > > >Lee......de G6ZSG..... > > > Hi Lee, > > Consider this: If your QFH has a 50-ohm terminal impedance, the mismatch is only > 1.44: 1. Therefore, the loss due to the mismatch is 0,14 dB, insignifiant--use > the 72-ohm line and forget the miniscule mismatch. > > Even if the mismatch was 2:1, the reflection loss is only 0.51 dB. > > Concerning the 4-turn choke, nothing happens to the matching operation, because > nothing inside the coax changes due to the coiling of the coax. > > Walt, W2DU Article: 228131 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:41:12 -0400 Message-ID: <6r21e2l7au54u8umohgkiblkq8cfn13cjr@4ax.com> References: <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:55:58 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >jawod wrote: >> you're trolling, aren't you? > >No, I'm wishing that every amateur radio operator had >an above average IQ. Don't you agree that would be a >good thing for them and the ARS? the problem may well be they had it when they jioned jioned sadly it would take massive re testing to keep it that way http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228132 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:42:01 -0400 Message-ID: <4t21e2p66s782a92ftu1td8259n5hjhmn0@4ax.com> References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <9dtvd2900p59qe44tem9ju2v1ti1e8s1sp@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:02:09 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 23:51:28 GMT, Cecil Moore >wrote: > >>I am too lazy > >I think that says it all. indeed but no t wat you think it say http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228133 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:42:51 -0400 Message-ID: <5u21e2hcmt9fv01fkah8ff7eo6drafnf8v@4ax.com> References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:57:26 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:14:59 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:18:11 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: > >>>Any knowledgeable person knows that knowledge is valuable for its own >>>sake. > >>and also knows that not all knowledge is equaly valuable > >There's a difference between "knowledge" as a class and specific >knowledge - something evidently outside the scope of your knowledge. nope but the less value in knowledge that is without use than knowledge gained from use something I am sure you will not undersatnd http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228134 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:45:12 -0400 Message-ID: References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <48osd29t9np8c8srpreghml88aits2me93@4ax.com> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:59:30 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:16:28 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:16:39 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: > >>>>but there still ramins no need for me to ever know the differentce >>>>between a collpitts and hartely occilator. > >>>There's no *need* for you to even know that you can use a radio to >>>talk to people. > >>there is if I want a license for it > >Learn (now there's a new concept for you) the difference between >"specific" and "general". alreadly do > >>>There's a need, if we want a ham license to say that the holder of >>>said license has achieved a certain level of technical competence, to >>>test for that competence. Otherwise all the license says is "I have >>>this piece of paper with ink on it". > >>no it say I have legal license to do xyz with it that is all it has >>ever said > >In your limited experience - which is about 0% relevant to anyone >else. > nope but belittleing your oppenents merely puts you on the road to being another clone of Robeson whoose sole posting these day consists of insults >>experhaps in the epriod where the general advanced and >>Extra class all had the same preveldges > >Which was ... oh ... only a few decades. But you weren't licensed >then, so they don't matter, right? is that what you are advocting? but there were before many if not most curent ham were born or at least licensed that state of affiars was also found un acceptable by the powers that be your point? http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228135 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "hasan schiers" Subject: Re: Engineers - Photo 16b.jpg (0/1) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 09:45:58 -0500 Message-ID: References: <0r6dnZgi4Kb6v0TZnZ2dnUVZ8smdnZ2d@bt.com> Hi Reg, Notice that the purpose of the formula is to get the maximum performance >from a finite length of available wire. So it doesn't make much difference what the ground characteristics are..the goal is to put down enough and the right length so that the ground characteristics don't matter any more. For more detail, go the the url I listed, as it shows the effects of various ground characteristics: http://www.ncjweb.com/k3lcmaxgainradials.pdf With this data, the generic formula and your own work, something synthetic could result that is even better than your most recent efforts. It is a VERY interesting subject to those of us using ground mounted verticals. 73, ...hasan, N0AN "Reg Edwards" wrote in message news:aqidnReg5NVNT0HZnZ2dnUVZ8s-dnZ2d@bt.com... > > ======================================== > Hasan, > > Thanks very much for the formula of which I was entirely unaware. I > will study it. > > I notice that it disregards resistivity and permittivity of the ground > under under the antenna which, obviously, ought be taken into account > even when only crudely known. > > There's a great difference between a soil resistivity of 25 and 5000 > ohm-metres. > > This is similar to BL&E who simply state that if the length and number > of radials are greater than certain amounts then soil characteristics > don't matter. > ---- > Reg. > > Article: 228136 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:47:21 -0400 Message-ID: References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:14:47 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:48:36 GMT, Cecil Moore >wrote: > >>Brenda Ann wrote: > >>> Some >>> advanced appliance operators know enough to connect other peripheral devices >>> such as digital mode devices or power amplifiers, but do not know how these >>> devices work, nor how to construct such devices. > >>An amateur radio license is an entry level license. > >There are a few classes - ONE class is entry level. all of them are entry level comapred to an RF engineer > >> It is not a university degree. When I obtained all amateur privileges >>at the age of 15, I didn't know squat. > >"When I robbed a man at the age of 15, I wasn't arrested." Does that >make robbery legal? Your experience is only that - your experience, >it's not definitive. impling that Cecil stole his license by passing the tests of the day agina come close to libel, not quite there but close > >> All I had done is memorize >>the ARRL License Manual. Six years later I had a EE degree. What >>is wrong with learning the technical stuff after one obtains his >>entry level license? > >Nothing, if you don't care that the license means nothing more than >that you have it. indeed I guess there we have YOU want the license as some sort of badge of honnor, the rest of one want to use and explore what it grants us http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228137 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:48:51 -0400 Message-ID: <5a31e2ll076qu2v57664di735g05ut9tkm@4ax.com> References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44DF2840.8040500@fuse.net> <44dfd1ce$0$6606$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 21:28:40 -0400, "L." wrote: >"jawod" wrote in message news:44DF2840.8040500@fuse.net... >> >>> >>> >>> In the example YOU give - Cecil - it could be taken either way. In the >>> case of the "frequencies" you're to operate on for a given license and >>> band - YES - you could simply "memorize" (not really commit to memory) >>> those frequencies - for the exam purposes and just refer to a chart from >>> there in. OR you COULD "memorize" them (actually committing to memory) >>> for the purpose of NOT having to use a chart! However, once you use those >>> frequencies after a while - especially if active - then you "would" tend >>> to "memorize" (for life) those frequencies. Yes, it is definately >>> splitting hairs! >>> >>> L. >> that makes no sense. to memorize is to commit to memory, by definition. > >RE-READ IT - there were TWO people here in the beginning "splitting hairs" >about the use of or perhaps MIS use of the word "memorization. One was >leaning towards "memorizing" "ANSWERS" purely to satisfy an exam....... i.e; >ABCD.......... it isn't quite that simple. On the other hand, the other >argument was in the "true" sense of the word - TO MEMORIZE (commit to memory >for life). if you don't like it bail > http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228138 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:49:26 GMT "Walter Maxwell" wrote in message news:0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com... > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 07:44:10 GMT, "Lee" wrote: > > >I`m building a QFH NOAA weathersat antenna and wish to use low loss t/v coax > >which is > >72ohm; but is more manageable and less lossy at VHF than the 50ohm RG58 > >specified > >over a 100ft run!.... ( RF pre-amps aint cheap! )....... > > > >What are the pros and cons... can i use CT100 72/75ohm..... i believe i can > >but, will the impedence affect > >the 4 turn choke ????... Should read `Choke Balun`....sorry, my typo... I`m following a design by Bill Sykes G2HCG & Bob Cobey G0HPO which calls for RG58 with a four turn choke balun.... > > > >Thanks. > > > >Lee......de G6ZSG..... > > > Hi Lee, > > Consider this: If your QFH has a 50-ohm terminal impedance, the mismatch is only > 1.44: 1. Therefore, the loss due to the mismatch is 0,14 dB, insignifiant--use > the 72-ohm line and forget the miniscule mismatch. > > Even if the mismatch was 2:1, the reflection loss is only 0.51 dB. > > Concerning the 4-turn choke, nothing happens to the matching operation, because > nothing inside the coax changes due to the coiling of the coax. I`ll try making the feed RG58 with the choke balun and then feed that with 72ohm... Thanks.... Lee......de G6ZSG..... Article: 228139 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:51:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1b31e2lf5llq52nd5sljesv44e7rpkcgpi@4ax.com> References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155422631.434982.49560@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:51:10 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On 12 Aug 2006 15:43:51 -0700, "an old friend" >wrote: > >>Al Klein wrote: >>> On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 14:41:33 GMT, Cecil Moore >>> wrote: >>> >>> >Brenda Ann wrote: >>> >> There's a difference between memorizing a formula or method and memorizing >>> >> specific answers to specific questions. The former is called learning, and >>> >> can be applied to many situations. The latter is called laziness, and >>> >> teaches nothing that can be used for any other purpose. >>> > >>> >That is just hair-splitting. >>> >>> The same hair splitting as the difference between stealing money and >>> earning it - they're both methods of obtaining it. > >>again you tread close to libel and flatout insaity > >There's nothing either malicious not defamatory in that. ("Who" am I >defaming? "Hair"?) myself for example by comparing me to a theft that you don't even bother to consider your words > >>> But, since you don't know the difference between "learning" and >>> "memorizing", nor which subjects fall into which category, you >>> probably can't see the parallel. > >>and again > >Telling you something true about yourself isn't actionable, unless >done with certain intent, which you'd be hard-pressed to prove. never said it was actiionable do you understand english it seem not however when you keep compating someone to theifs in time I suspect it would rise to being actionale what protects you is that judgement is not particularly collectable and therefore not worth an atorneys time http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228140 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:52:30 -0400 Message-ID: <3f31e29gu9b88stkf5goqhvg9tmre1iike@4ax.com> References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <0ltvd2hlra21i0qhc12eucks8lotga2qa3@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:09:15 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:04:45 GMT, Cecil Moore >wrote: > >>Al Klein wrote: > >>> But, since you don't know the difference between "learning" and >>> "memorizing", nor which subjects fall into which category, you >>> probably can't see the parallel. > >>Learning is impossible without memorizing. > >Memorizing is possible without learning. indeed so? > >> You are simply ignorant > >I'm not the one who doesn't understand the discussion, inverting >"memorizing" and "learning". Maybe you need to stop being so lazy and >actually learn something. yep the personal in lew of reason > > >>Is English your second language? > >Third. My internal language is (was) my first. Brooklynese was my >second. English is my third. > >> Again, from Websters > >Again, Webster's is a compendium of common usage, not an unabridged >(regardless of the trademark) authoritative source. those who cling >to dictionary definitions as authoritative announce their lack of >actual knowledge. meaning agree with me o r be labeled dumb get over yourself troll http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228141 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" References: Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: <580Eg.94679$9d4.2525@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:53:53 GMT "Jerry Martes" wrote in message news:hU%Dg.12256$hH1.9718@trnddc08... > > "Lee" wrote in message > news:eRVDg.42175$Ca.14308@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk... > > I`m building a QFH NOAA weathersat antenna and wish to use low loss t/v > > coax > > which is > > 72ohm; but is more manageable and less lossy at VHF than the 50ohm RG58 > > specified > > over a 100ft run!.... ( RF pre-amps aint cheap! )....... > > > > What are the pros and cons... can i use CT100 72/75ohm..... i believe i > > can > > but, will the impedence affect > > the 4 turn choke ????... > > > > Thanks. > > > > Lee......de G6ZSG..... > > Hi Lee > > There are alot of affordable amplifiers designed for TV that you could use > at the base of your QFH. You might consider building your owm amplifier to > fit in the base of the QFH. > I wouldnt recomend the use of a pre-amp at the antenna for NOAA satelite > station. They often cause more problems than they solve. > All Electronics has alot of ferrite tubes that can be used to fit over the > coax so you wouldnt need the "4 turn choke". `4 turn Choke Balun`.....typo.... > > Jerry Thanks Jerry, i`ll give it some thought as i`m right under some pmr towers which breaks through a little from 150megs pagers and a preamp may worsen things... Lee....de G6ZSG.... > > Article: 228142 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:54:10 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44ddec1b$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <%dmDg.9451$FN2.1314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <42lsd2ddni97cu2bucrj73j36unefvptlg@4ax.com> <99tvd2193fjj37j8c9ngnlelh91t9tgqaj@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:00:50 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:17:33 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:23:13 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: >>>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 15:12:59 GMT, Cecil Moore >>>wrote: > >>>>Laziness allows one to achieve a goal by the most efficient >>>>route. Some famous German military leader said he would >>>>lots rather have brilliant and lazy officers than ambitious >>>>and stupid ones. > >>>As I recall, he was also known as one of the most idiotic strategists >>>the species has ever produced. His "fame" didn't stop him from being >>>the almost single-handed reason his country lost its big war, did it? > >>>> I personally would rather see brilliant >>>>and lazy amateur radio operators than ambitious and stupid >>>>ones hanging on for dear life to an obsolete testing >>>>requirement. > >>>Being both intelligent and ambitious doesn't appear on your radar? > >>but it is not a requirement of licensing after you have one > >Your comment was totally irrelevant to THIS conversation, Mark. Ham >radio has nothing to do, in this context, with Hitler. not in my opinion which for the pruposes of posting is all that counts indeed Hiltler has nothing to do with the discussion at this stage he comes into it later do keep track esp if you are going to play thread cop http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228143 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:55:07 -0400 Message-ID: <0l31e293dga4k6d7j764m2bee6ubn0t25h@4ax.com> References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44ddec1b$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <%dmDg.9451$FN2.1314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <42lsd2ddni97cu2bucrj73j36unefvptlg@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:12:21 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:22:31 GMT, Cecil Moore >wrote: > >>Al Klein wrote: >>> Cecil Moore wrote: >>>> Laziness allows one to achieve a goal by the most efficient >>>> route. Some famous German military leader said he would >>>> lots rather have brilliant and lazy officers than ambitious >>>> and stupid ones. >>> >>> As I recall, he was also known as one of the most idiotic strategists >>> the species has ever produced. His "fame" didn't stop him from being >>> the almost single-handed reason his country lost its big war, did it? >> >>This was a WWI German officer and I don't recall his name. > >Then it's just an assertion of yours, isn't it? and my assertion but then you need to refer to autority when it suits you > >>> Being both intelligent and ambitious doesn't appear on your radar? > >>The pride, lust, and greed usually accompanying ambition are >>a good percentage of the seven deadly sins. > >Sorry, I don't share your religious incredulity. I don't recognize >"sin" as anything but a nonsense word. you certainly a polite ham ....NOT http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228144 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> <6ZidnbhHj4zMF33ZnZ2dnUVZ8qqdnZ2d@bt.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:58:32 GMT Reg Edwards wrote: > I don't know, never did know, how to use an old fashioned, mid-20th > century Smith Chart. Reg, I'm curious how you would solve this stub problem without a Smith Chart. | 45 deg | 45 deg | Source====Z01=========Z02====open Stub sections are lossless. Z01 = 600 ohms and is 45 degrees long. Z02 = 50 ohms and is 45 degrees long. What is the impedance looking into the stub from the source? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228145 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:05:02 GMT Lee wrote: > I`ll try making the feed RG58 with the choke balun and then feed that with > 72ohm... No need to do that. Just use 4 turns of the 72 ohm coax. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228146 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Caveat Lector" References: <1155553389.563773.36890@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: another free resource for HAMs Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:13:56 -0700 "Slohand" wrote in message news:1155553389.563773.36890@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... >I checked out http://www.usrepeaters.com, nice website. > WOW - great job -- kudos CL Article: 228147 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: <%H0Eg.43558$Ca.7914@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:32:11 GMT "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:yi0Eg.12372$gY6.1925@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com... > Lee wrote: > > I`ll try making the feed RG58 with the choke balun and then feed that with > > 72ohm... > > No need to do that. Just use 4 turns of the 72 ohm coax. Thanks Cecil, this is my second QFH !!! the first worked a treat as designed with RG58, but 100feet is a bit lossy..... a preamp under pmr towers is asking a bit too much hence tv coax..... Lee...de G6ZSG > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228148 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Walter Maxwell Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Message-ID: <6671e2dc1g145uhmkrnk4toqkua5rtr6gm@4ax.com> References: <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <4ISdnRvCaL1vC0LZRVnyhw@bt.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:59:52 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:05:50 +0100, "Reg Edwards" wrote: > >> >"Walter Maxwell" wrote >========================================= >> Thanks, Reg, for the valuable insight. It does pay to read the posts >made >> by one G4FGQ. >> >> Walt >= snip ======================================== >Walt, > >Yes, there is only one G4FGQ. Although I confess I don't spend much >time on the air these days. Poor health! > >When it comes to antennas, one reason why I don't publicise the source >code of my programs is that they are full of proven little tricks like >the foregoing which give answers in the right american ball-park. >There is always the danger that unjustified, unqualified criticism >would spoil the confidence and integrity to be placed in them by >novices. If for any reason you don't like a program you can always >have your money back! > >One day I might list my 60 years of engineering experience but it may >be construed as bragging. > >And a compliment from you, Walt, is a compliment indeed! >---- >Reg. > Reg, with your experience, along with your wonderful assistance to others through your myriad of useful programs made available at no cost to others, but with much cost to you in terms of time spent creating them, you've earned your bragging rights many times over. Apparently, we have a mutual complimentary relationship. Walt Article: 228149 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: nanovmh@yahoo.com Subject: Bio-TERROR in America: Aerosols for HARM and Torture! Date: 14 Aug 2006 09:18:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1155572305.451124.21260@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> AMERICA IN DANGER of its own loose Bio-Terror: Is 1984 here? Secret Bio-Aerosols are misused to HARM and Torture in U.S.A. CRITICS (political/social/cultural) are harassed and secretly persecuted along with their KIDS in schools/colleges, especially, during tests/exams (Think of Guantanamo Bay "stress-positions" in 1984-technology context) Bio-Aerosols and aerosolized chemicals are used to cause: - severe colds/coughs turning into bronchitis, eye irritation - bacterial pneumonia/other pneumonia, shortness of breath - surges of severe headaches, migraines, dizziness, etc. - fainting collapses by symptoms-mimicking aerosols - severe stomach pains (sharp, burning, nausea, etc) - chest-wall pains, heart-muscle inflammations, etc. - heart attacks under cover of second-hand smocking - car crashes/accidents by Vertigo-causing aerosols A network of Secret Gas-Aerosol Rooms operated in US (in Philadelphia, Narberth, Lower Merion, PA) (in Wilmington and Newark, DE) (in Hampton, Williamsburg and Richmond, VA) AND ELSEWHERE.... details below... Bio-aerosols used to hurt and simulate panic attacks, etc.! Soviets locked critics into nut-houses, now WE do the same! Symptoms-mimicking aerosols do HARM, weak or ill people. Say "Stop, I care" - call Senate (202) 224-3121 House of Representatives (202) 225-3121 What IS going on in America? *Print and Post* Big Brother spins protection... And fear is used to clamp. Democracy needs action! On which side do you stand? Looked at this?!! Go to Google/Yahoo newsGroups: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- TORTURE IN USA: Secret Aerosol Rooms US Scientist needs legal help dealing with the secret aerosols rooms (SARs) operated illegally in Philadelphia area, Newark (DE), Hampton and Williamsburg (VA) and other places. Highly volatile aerosols with and without bacterial content cause dry cough, airways a... Full text was at: http://buyit.philly.com/findit/search/results.jsp?catId=3Dkrd_philenqda... This was a new on-line ad placed in Philadelphia Inquirer and Philadelphia Daily News on www.philly.com (see full text below) It was about the secret aerosols rooms in US. One could find it by searching "secret", say, in the ad section of philly.com. Democracy can not function effectively without the informed public. As a former NASA Langley scientist working in the area of nanotechnology and nanoscale particles, I have been recently exposed to the establishment of secret gas-aerosol rooms inside of United States, at least in the Mid-Atlantic region (from Philadelphia to Virginia). First, the highly irritant aerosols have surfaced at the NASA Langley Research Center in several safety accidents. Investigations were blocked, probably, because of lack of Congressional approval for such financially-lucrative research at NASA. Later, these aerosols had been encountered outside of NASA in Virginia, Delaware and Pennsylvania . This points out to yet another proliferation of originally-sensitive technologies into domestic American life to hurt and harass people without a proper oversight and much control. This amounts to torture, extra-judicial prosecution and authoritarian intimidation tactics. The use of such irritants and the operations of the secret gas-aerosol rooms are gross violations of human and constitutional rights of American citizens and various domestic and international laws. -------------------Full text of an ad from Philadelphia's philly.com-------------------------- TORTURE IN USA: Secret Aerosol Rooms US Scientist needs legal help dealing with the secret aerosols rooms (SARs) operated illegally in Philadelphia area, Newark (DE), Hampton and Williamsburg (VA). Highly volatile aerosols with and without bacterial content cause dry cough, airways and eyes irritation, chest pain and inflammation. FBI and Homeland Security associates are likely operators of SARs, while collaborators may be hotel staff and landlords, who get financial/material or other incentives. US citizens and kids are victims. AMERICA IN DANGER! America in danger - The vice is NOT impeached. America in danger - The public trust is breached. Big Brother spins protection... And fear is used to clamp. Democracy needs action! On which side do you stand? Which side are you on, boys? Which side moves you on? Which side are you on, girls? Which side moves you on? (Chorus after F. Reece) Your church is burned by haters. The priests to go to jail? Your dreams are cheyned by traitors, But hope still shines through veil. "Dust rooms" came back to gas us With neo-Naz (or Con) embrace... New immigrants do make US! And not the SSuper-race... V. Haryk-Bukovynsky =A9 VMH Article: 228150 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "MRW" Subject: Antenna question about above ground term Date: 14 Aug 2006 10:12:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1155575543.996352.151110@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Hello folks, I was reading this website: [url]http://www.qsl.net/aa3rl/ant2.html[/url]. It got me thinking. In general, does the term "above ground" refer to the actual Earth ground or does it refer to an antenna's ground plane (not necessarily Earth ground)? I was looking at the radiation patterns, and I got curious what would happen if a dipole antenna is attached to a bird (for example). Will the radiation pattern change as the bird's flying height changes? Or will the flying antenna maintain the same radiation pattern as a "normal" antenna that is mounted on a mast at the same height? Thanks! Article: 228151 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes References: <9pudnS88mudASEHZRVny3g@bt.com> <2u6Dg.7767$FN2.5867@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 17:15:36 GMT Reg Edwards wrote: > I would call it the frequency at which the coil alone is resonant when > mounted as a base-loading coil over a ground plane. That's the self-resonant frequency "in situ". -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228152 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: Antenna question about above ground term Date: 14 Aug 2006 10:25:30 -0700 Message-ID: <1155576329.952082.223250@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: <1155575543.996352.151110@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Troll, troll, troll your boat... Article: 228153 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: Bio-TERROR in America: Aerosols for HARM and Torture! Date: 14 Aug 2006 10:26:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1155576398.781904.95960@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <1155572305.451124.21260@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Just think, all this because he won't stay on two bucks worth of Lithium a day... Article: 228155 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <4ISdnRvCaL1vC0LZRVnyhw@bt.com> <6671e2dc1g145uhmkrnk4toqkua5rtr6gm@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:29:50 +0100 Message-ID: Walt, I'm a selfish person just like everybody else. I do it purely for self-satisfaction. ---- Reg. Article: 228156 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:02:16 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:55:58 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >No, I'm wishing that every amateur radio operator had >an above average IQ. Easy solution - only award licenses to those with above average IQs. Article: 228157 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:04:14 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:05:37 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >>> An amateur radio license is an entry level license. >> >> There are a few classes - ONE class is entry level. > >They are all entry level. The Extra class license allows >entry into the Extra class frequency segments. Using that logic, a PhD oral is an entry level exam - it allows entry into the ranks of those with PhDs. > An amateur >license is not a status symbol. Its only worth is the >privileges granted. In the 1950's, generals, conditionals, >advanced, and extras all had the same frequency privileges. Except that there were no advanced class licenses, and the extra was a prestige license. Article: 228158 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <6ql1e29j9ti7r0bh7721dmsq6jq3r2cckm@4ax.com> References: <4fspd2p7qecou8mmsf5tipdh59nfo5l2qs@4ax.com> <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <4bbqd2pmudip3s3j0geqbookdclrvqrq0s@4ax.com> <1155402696.148105.304140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <09ksd2d8kdt36t61dsk27espsee0e6i2o3@4ax.com> <9vsvd2lfgc7m2cv9hds5h79ri5hchdk6uf@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:06:32 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:32:06 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:55:15 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>Parroting what I say doesn't make you look educated. >indeed it would not >but your point? That if you bought 5 clues you'd still be less than clueless. >>The fact that you posted something on your blog doesn't make it >>definitive, or even correct. >never claimed otherwise now you are attacking for a having a sig line? >http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ That's not a sig line, it's part of your post. Sigs appear UNDER the tear (and you don't even have a tear). Put your sig in the signature area, not as part of your post. (If you can figure out how to use Agent.) Article: 228159 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155176286.445811.289510@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1155265525.310166.4760@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <4fspd2p7qecou8mmsf5tipdh59nfo5l2qs@4ax.com> <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155433505.131116.226510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155434298.409922.126140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:07:30 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:32:41 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:15:18 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: > >>On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" >>wrote: >> >>>hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: >> >>>> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? >> >>>ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please >> >>Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. >no I did ot know that answer and you lied they did I *HAVE* capacitors that are color coded, so you lied about my lying. Article: 228160 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155336873.334573.182430@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1155347488.895791.96000@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155402608.674317.299000@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:09:43 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:34:58 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:54:12 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: > >>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:13:23 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >> >>>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:24:46 -0400, Al Klein >>>wrote: >> >>>>Your claim to know what I'm thinking better than I do? Only if your >>>>age is a single digit. >> >>>sure I know better >> >>Then you're claiming to be a child. >nope you are claiming to something contary to fact I'm claiming that I know what I think and you don't - which is a fact. >you are worng it becoming hazing when the subject of the test is >unrelated to the prevlegdes it grannts Nope - it's just a poor test. Hazing is something entirely different. >>>you are dancing around sutblies in the menaing of emorizing like mad >>In your mind, because you can't understand the simple distinctions. >and in the mind of engineer at least 2 of em and countless others as >well Degrees don't guarantee competence - 50% of all engineers graduated in the bottom half of the class. Article: 228161 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" Subject: Re: how many forum members to change a lightbulb? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:11:47 -0500 Message-ID: <12e1m82ale9ou85@corp.supernews.com> References: <3e81c$44dee622$471d24de$25131@ALLTEL.NET> "Walter Maxwell" wrote in message news:snfud2168d12a6ctkdmuhl5814u63lo5mn@4ax.com... > On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 04:42:47 -0400, "Fred Hambrecht" > wrote: > >>How many forum members does it take to change a lightbulb? >> > Right on, Fred! Seems that once in a while something like that occurs in > threads > appearing on this NG. > > Walt, W2DU > My first antenna was a light bulb. 73 H. NQ5H Article: 228162 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <8ospd2lfvgmbtpd1s6b0orl41qjudi5du5@4ax.com> <26jrd2pug4448ng9i6p69924i5jcer21a3@4ax.com> <1155402655.846630.24010@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <90ksd29a82a6ui32fpl1sshph1f9vld103@4ax.com> <1155422570.385867.308540@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:12:03 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:36:29 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:49:32 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>On 12 Aug 2006 15:42:50 -0700, "an old friend" >>wrote: >>>oncce you accpet that much of the testing involves memizztion the >>>question then comes down to where is your beef? >>Those who memorize answers instead of learning concepts - what you >>would have seen at the beginning of the thread had you paid attention. >I did >your point are a defference that makes no deffenerce that you can >explain In a way that you can understand. Since you demonstrate so little understanding of anything, that's no surprise. >>>you tread awfully close to libel there AL >>Look up the definition of "libel". Part of it is "malicious >>defamation". Calling a penny a cent isn't malicious, nor is it >>defamatory. >but calling someone a cheat on federal requirement is Post a link to my post calling you "a cheat on federal requirement" - or even just calling you a cheat. >>> ask an lawyer if you don't believe me >>You need to take your own advice. Also you need to ask an English >>teacher - you don't seem to know the definitions of a lot of very >>common words. >that is your peoblem dancing over minutia you don't seem to understand Pot - kettle - ebon. Article: 228163 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <79m1e2h039r5a4p4l11ekso7lo6nhk1fh0@4ax.com> References: <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <65osd21lq4gps07j6atbcg9su4cfcq5sa7@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:14:25 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:37:12 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >no the core of the matter is that there is no matter just you and >other trying toalter hisoory History is amateurs having to demonstrate proficiency in Morse code. those trying to eliminate the code requirement are the ones trying to alter history. Do you work for the government? It sure sounds like it. "When we change history it's progress, when you try to change things back to the way they were, it's 'changing history'." Article: 228164 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:14:13 -0500 Message-ID: <12e1mckn4teha2f@corp.supernews.com> References: <9pudnS88mudASEHZRVny3g@bt.com> <2u6Dg.7767$FN2.5867@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> "Walter Maxwell" wrote in message news:ql9sd295jsifpgjg9dnjdj2rifhrir8lgq@4ax.com... > On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:53:06 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: > >>Walter Maxwell wrote: >>> But Cecil, I thought this thread was about chokes to prevent common-mode >>> currents from flowing on the feed line. >>> >>> Now yer talking about loading coils for mobile whip antennas. >> >>Yes, carrying the subject over from an earlier thread on loading >>coils. There is a master's thesis paper authored by the Corum >>brothers, K1AON and KB1EUD, and sponsored by the IEEE at: >> >>http://www.ttr.com/TELSIKS2001-MASTER-1.pdf >> >>which deals with RF coils. Although aimed at Tesla coils, it >>contains lots of useful information for hams. In particular, >>it predicts the VF for large real-world coils which is very >>useful for me. It essentially shoots down the argument that >>the current through a real-world loading coil is the same >>at both ends of the coil, i.e. the delay through the coil >>approaches zero as presented by the lumped circuit model. >> >>> As I understand >>> the issue, one is 180° from the other. For the choke you want a high >>> resistance, >>> which is what you get at the self-resonant frequency. But for the >>> loading coil >>> you want the lowest series resistance possible, which you don't get when >>> anywhere near the self-resonant frequency. >> >>My point is that the same laws of physics apply to loading coils >>and coaxial coil chokes even if the applications are different. >>And we do, quite often, operate our 75m loading coils fairly >>near their self-resonant frequencies - like your Hustler example. >> >>> Like I said above, the Hustler 80m loading coil achieved 'low swr' by >>> making the >>> coil self resonant slightly above 4 MHz, with a series resistance of 31 >>> ohms. >>> Now you are suggesting a bugcatcher coil self-resonant at 6.6 MHz, which >>> means >>> yer coil is going to give you a nice low swr, but yer losing half of yer >>> power >>> in the coil because of the high series resistance you can't avoid. Yer >>> also >>> losing yer mind. >> >>Well, that is the measured self-resonant frequency of my often >>glorified 75m Texas Bugcatcher coil supposed to be one of the >>highest-Q coils available. > > Yeah, but Cecil, have you ever actually MEASURED the series resistance? > The > slope of the resonance curve that peaks at 6.6MHz ain't gonna be low > enough at > 4.0. MHz to make an efficient mobile antenna. The Hustler coils, with 31 > ohms > series resistance was a hoax on the average ham who didn't know the real > reason > the Hustler gave them a low swr, which is what they mistakenly thought was > paradise. When it comes to efficiency in an antenna with a loading coil, > the > best efficiency comes with the highest swr in absence of any attempt to > match > the terminal impedance to 50 ohms. > > IMO, Cecil, you've been hoaxed if you thought a coil self-resonant at 6.6 > MHz > was a high-Q coil at 4 MHz. > > Walt If the Hustler isn't bad enough you can always get a hamstick. 73 H. NQ5H Article: 228165 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" Subject: Re: Rule of Thumb for coax chokes Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:15:55 -0500 Message-ID: <12e1mfq9ciugb85@corp.supernews.com> References: <9pudnS88mudASEHZRVny3g@bt.com> <2u6Dg.7767$FN2.5867@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <3nsrd2lbrj6nsff2ojghfh6p2af1ts8h6q@4ax.com> <9OFDg.12169$gY6.5458@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> "Reg Edwards" wrote in message news:Cc2dnfyXfuEaHULZRVnygw@bt.com... > > "Cecil Moore" wrote >> So what would you call the frequency at which a coil alone >> is resonant when mounted as a base-loading coil over a >> ground plane? > ================================= > Cec, > > I would call it the frequency at which the coil alone is resonant when > mounted as a base-loading coil over a ground plane. > > It would depend on whether the ground plane was a bicycle or the deck > of a super-tanker. > ----- > Reg. > > Wouldn't that just be a coiled-up whip? H. Article: 228166 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <7l21e2dvu794qnmr8gfqnicusbe9epf2r4@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:16:21 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:39:45 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >your effort to smeear anybody that disagrees with you not withstanding >or indeed if you succeeded in producing a test I could not pass you >would exclude a lot of people besides me and kill the ARS Like it was "killed" all through the 30s, 40s, 50, 60s, etc.? Code was required, as was drawing schematics. Yet there were more hams every year than there were the year before. You have a strange concept of "kill". Article: 228167 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <2hm1e2d7tscn14jb9bhgc18k8vcu3kht7f@4ax.com> References: <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <1q21e2tet4e0c8n6436ae0bhfl3d1nq3em@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:17:07 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:40:11 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:04:55 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>No, but at least you're consistent - your response is non-responsive >>and incompetent. >no they are on point You don't even know what an incompetent response is, so how can you comment on it? Article: 228168 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <4jm1e2hgtsa39apoo633dso3aatv7h8v8c@4ax.com> References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <9dtvd2900p59qe44tem9ju2v1ti1e8s1sp@4ax.com> <4t21e2p66s782a92ftu1td8259n5hjhmn0@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:18:08 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:42:01 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:02:09 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: > >>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 23:51:28 GMT, Cecil Moore >>wrote: >> >>>I am too lazy >> >>I think that says it all. >indeed but no t wat you think it say Mark, if missing the point were worth money you'd be richer than Gates. Article: 228169 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:20:01 -0400 Message-ID: References: <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <4bbqd2pmudip3s3j0geqbookdclrvqrq0s@4ax.com> <1155402696.148105.304140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <09ksd2d8kdt36t61dsk27espsee0e6i2o3@4ax.com> <9vsvd2lfgc7m2cv9hds5h79ri5hchdk6uf@4ax.com> <6ql1e29j9ti7r0bh7721dmsq6jq3r2cckm@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:06:32 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:32:06 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:55:15 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: > >>>Parroting what I say doesn't make you look educated. > >>indeed it would not > >>but your point? > >That if you bought 5 clues you'd still be less than clueless. no need to buy clues but still your point is what? http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228170 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:20:50 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1155265525.310166.4760@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <4fspd2p7qecou8mmsf5tipdh59nfo5l2qs@4ax.com> <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155433505.131116.226510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155434298.409922.126140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:07:30 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:32:41 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:15:18 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: >> >>>On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" >>>wrote: >>> >>>>hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: >>> >>>>> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? >>> >>>>ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please >>> >>>Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. > >>no I did ot know that answer and you lied they did > >I *HAVE* capacitors that are color coded, so you lied about my lying. then you lied when you typed " they didn't." or used english incoreectly or http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228171 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:22:26 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1155347488.895791.96000@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155402608.674317.299000@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:09:43 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:34:58 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:54:12 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: >> >>>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:13:23 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >>> >>>>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:24:46 -0400, Al Klein >>>>wrote: >>> >>>>>Your claim to know what I'm thinking better than I do? Only if your >>>>>age is a single digit. >>> >>>>sure I know better >>> >>>Then you're claiming to be a child. > >>nope you are claiming to something contary to fact > >I'm claiming that I know what I think and you don't - which is a fact. prove it I don't think you truely understand what you think, that is another fact > >>you are worng it becoming hazing when the subject of the test is >>unrelated to the prevlegdes it grannts > >Nope - it's just a poor test. Hazing is something entirely different. hazing is in the ye of the beholder once it sceases to be relavant > >>>>you are dancing around sutblies in the menaing of emorizing like mad > >>>In your mind, because you can't understand the simple distinctions. > >>and in the mind of engineer at least 2 of em and countless others as >>well > >Degrees don't guarantee competence - 50% of all engineers graduated in >the bottom half of the class. do you have anything cogent to say? it would apear not http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228172 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:22:13 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:47:21 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:14:47 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:48:36 GMT, Cecil Moore >>wrote: >>> It is not a university degree. When I obtained all amateur privileges >>>at the age of 15, I didn't know squat. >>"When I robbed a man at the age of 15, I wasn't arrested." Does that >>make robbery legal? Your experience is only that - your experience, >>it's not definitive. >impling that Cecil stole his license by passing the tests of the day Not even close, but your accusation is close to being libelous. >YOU want the license as some sort of badge of honnor No, I want it to mean what it meant for decades - that the holder had demonstrated a certain level of knowledge. Article: 228173 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:24:36 -0400 Message-ID: References: <26jrd2pug4448ng9i6p69924i5jcer21a3@4ax.com> <1155402655.846630.24010@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <90ksd29a82a6ui32fpl1sshph1f9vld103@4ax.com> <1155422570.385867.308540@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:12:03 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:36:29 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:49:32 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: >>>On 12 Aug 2006 15:42:50 -0700, "an old friend" >>>wrote: > >>>>oncce you accpet that much of the testing involves memizztion the >>>>question then comes down to where is your beef? > >>>Those who memorize answers instead of learning concepts - what you >>>would have seen at the beginning of the thread had you paid attention. > >>I did > >>your point are a defference that makes no deffenerce that you can >>explain > >In a way that you can understand. Since you demonstrate so little >understanding of anything, that's no surprise. you can't explain it to me or to a frormer (or current memeber of Mensa nor it seems can you explain where it counts...The FCC > >>>>you tread awfully close to libel there AL > >>>Look up the definition of "libel". Part of it is "malicious >>>defamation". Calling a penny a cent isn't malicious, nor is it >>>defamatory. > >>but calling someone a cheat on federal requirement is > >Post a link to my post calling you "a cheat on federal requirement" - >or even just calling you a cheat. why? you would simply dey it but you compare those that took and passed the test required at the time to theifs that sure soound calling em cheats to me > >>>> ask an lawyer if you don't believe me > >>>You need to take your own advice. Also you need to ask an English >>>teacher - you don't seem to know the definitions of a lot of very >>>common words. > >>that is your peoblem dancing over minutia you don't seem to understand > >Pot - kettle - ebon. http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228174 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155331373.380661.27660@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155422631.434982.49560@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1b31e2lf5llq52nd5sljesv44e7rpkcgpi@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:27:40 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:51:06 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:51:10 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>There's nothing either malicious not defamatory in that. ("Who" am I >>defaming? "Hair"?) >myself for example by comparing me to a theft 1) A theft is an act - I wasn't comparing anyone to an act. 2) Quote where I'm comparing you to anything. >>Telling you something true about yourself isn't actionable, unless >>done with certain intent, which you'd be hard-pressed to prove. >never said it was actiionable You keep using the word "libel" - that means actionable, since libel is a civil tort. >do you understand english it seem not Oh, I understand it. It's difficult to get published if you don't understand the language in which you're writing. Your posts, however, demonstrate a clear lack of ability to use the language to communicate clearly. >however when you keep compating someone to theifs in time I suspect it >would rise to being actionale If I ever did, which I never have. >what protects you is that judgement is not particularly collectable >and therefore not worth an atorneys time How would you know whether a judgment against me is collectable? Or is this another case of what you say having nothing to do with what you mean? Article: 228175 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:28:17 -0400 Message-ID: References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <65osd21lq4gps07j6atbcg9su4cfcq5sa7@4ax.com> <79m1e2h039r5a4p4l11ekso7lo6nhk1fh0@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:14:25 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:37:12 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>no the core of the matter is that there is no matter just you and > >>other trying toalter hisoory > >History is amateurs having to demonstrate proficiency in Morse code. indeed it is History today there is no need for it >those trying to eliminate the code requirement are the ones trying to >alter history. how so we adkonowledge that it once had a fairly legit place in the scheme of things (I am almost alone in saying we could have done without as early as the invention of voice although I grant it was convenait then and the treaty lang required it) > Do you work for the government? at times > It sure sounds like >it. "When we change history it's progress, when you try to change >things back to the way they were, it's 'changing history'." no when you try to ignore what is and reverse progress and techinal advance I call it Ludditism and in (close to)theoriginal meaning of the word, Sabotage. http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228176 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44ddec1b$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <%dmDg.9451$FN2.1314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <42lsd2ddni97cu2bucrj73j36unefvptlg@4ax.com> <99tvd2193fjj37j8c9ngnlelh91t9tgqaj@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:30:02 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:54:10 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >not in my opinion which for the pruposes of posting is all that counts No, actually, "for the purposes of posting", your opinion doesn't count at all to most people. But, since you have such a limited view of the world, you won't understand what that means. Article: 228177 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Mark Morgan" References: <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:31:07 -0400 Message-ID: <44e0d063$0$11706$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "Al Klein" wrote in message news:lkl1e2l0s6qacflc3nugm3l7qrv6518v0d@4ax.com... > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:55:58 GMT, Cecil Moore > wrote: > >>No, I'm wishing that every amateur radio operator had >>an above average IQ. > > Easy solution - only award licenses to those with above average IQs. with the punce gotcha he wonders why I simple don't bother to ty impoving my spelling -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228178 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <6bn1e2lmeh8adsvjkmral0r9tih3dlbfie@4ax.com> References: <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <44ddec1b$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <%dmDg.9451$FN2.1314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <42lsd2ddni97cu2bucrj73j36unefvptlg@4ax.com> <0l31e293dga4k6d7j764m2bee6ubn0t25h@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:31:29 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:55:07 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:12:21 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>Sorry, I don't share your religious incredulity. I don't recognize >>"sin" as anything but a nonsense word. >you certainly a polite ham ....NOT Is that religious bigotry I'm hearing, Mark? "Accept my beliefs as fact or be labeled impolite"? Article: 228179 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:32:21 -0400 Message-ID: References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <7l21e2dvu794qnmr8gfqnicusbe9epf2r4@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:16:21 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:39:45 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>your effort to smeear anybody that disagrees with you not withstanding >>or indeed if you succeeded in producing a test I could not pass you >>would exclude a lot of people besides me and kill the ARS > you reply which had zero relavance to my statement clipped My statement if you enacted a standard that would in fact keep me from passing, that would kill the ARS. That sort would require far more than merely adding schamtics or going to short answer questions. it would involved a test that would serious chalange Cecil and Len Anderson both RF engineers, doing that would kill the ars as would the asiine proposals of Mr Slow Code and many others your notions are simplely not exexutable in anything like the current sytem the notion that multible guess is acceptable for pilots and drivers (amoug others) but ham radio ops is silly http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228180 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:33:15 -0400 Message-ID: References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <1q21e2tet4e0c8n6436ae0bhfl3d1nq3em@4ax.com> <2hm1e2d7tscn14jb9bhgc18k8vcu3kht7f@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:17:07 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:40:11 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:04:55 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: > >>>No, but at least you're consistent - your response is non-responsive >>>and incompetent. > >>no they are on point > >You don't even know what an incompetent response is, so how can you >comment on it?\ it is like pron I can't define it but I know it when I see it it works for the law on Pornographic materail surely that is a high enough standard for the NG http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228181 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:33:50 -0400 Message-ID: References: <44de6f6e$0$6604$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:02:16 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:55:58 GMT, Cecil Moore >wrote: > >>No, I'm wishing that every amateur radio operator had >>an above average IQ. > >Easy solution - only award licenses to those with above average IQs. only if you throw away a little document like the constitution but you are not serious I know that http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228182 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Mark Morgan" Subject: with the punce Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:34:21 -0400 Message-ID: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> with the punce gotcha he wonders why I simple don't bother to ty impoving my spelling do u hav anyting cognet two say? -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228183 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:34:29 -0400 Message-ID: References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155405497.799120.156630@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <9epDg.7812$kO3.4544@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <44de358f$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <4QtDg.6510$1f6.2095@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <9dtvd2900p59qe44tem9ju2v1ti1e8s1sp@4ax.com> <4t21e2p66s782a92ftu1td8259n5hjhmn0@4ax.com> <4jm1e2hgtsa39apoo633dso3aatv7h8v8c@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:18:08 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:42:01 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:02:09 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: >> >>>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 23:51:28 GMT, Cecil Moore >>>wrote: >>> >>>>I am too lazy >>> >>>I think that says it all. >>indeed but no t wat you think it say > >Mark, if missing the point were worth money you'd be richer than >Gates. nah O see the point I don't agree with you if you could understand that you might get somewhere http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228184 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:36:42 GMT Al Klein wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> They are all entry level. The Extra class license allows >> entry into the Extra class frequency segments. > > Using that logic, a PhD oral is an entry level exam - it allows entry > into the ranks of those with PhDs. As far as I know, there is no governmental PhD class license and therefore no governmental ranks of those with PhDs. >> An amateur >> license is not a status symbol. Its only worth is the >> privileges granted. In the 1950's, generals, conditionals, >> advanced, and extras all had the same frequency privileges. > > Except that there were no advanced class licenses, and the extra was a > prestige license. You don't seem to know much about 1950's ham licenses. You didn't know that Conditional was a General exam taken by mail. You don't know there were many Advanced class hams in the 1950's faithfully renewing their licenses. My Elmer was an Advanced licensee. Here's a quote from a 1957 ARRL License Manual: "Holders of Advanced Class licenses may renew them so long as they can comply with renewal requirements." -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228185 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:41:18 -0400 Message-ID: References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:22:13 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:47:21 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:14:47 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: >>>On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:48:36 GMT, Cecil Moore >>>wrote: > >>>> It is not a university degree. When I obtained all amateur privileges >>>>at the age of 15, I didn't know squat. > >>>"When I robbed a man at the age of 15, I wasn't arrested." Does that >>>make robbery legal? Your experience is only that - your experience, >>>it's not definitive. > >>impling that Cecil stole his license by passing the tests of the day > >Not even close, but your accusation is close to being libelous. the accusation is your not mine > >>YOU want the license as some sort of badge of honnor > >No, I want it to mean what it meant for decades - that the holder had >demonstrated a certain level of knowledge. it has never meant that, not as a matt r of law http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228186 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:41:50 -0400 Message-ID: References: <44ddec1b$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <%dmDg.9451$FN2.1314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <42lsd2ddni97cu2bucrj73j36unefvptlg@4ax.com> <99tvd2193fjj37j8c9ngnlelh91t9tgqaj@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:30:02 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:54:10 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>not in my opinion which for the pruposes of posting is all that counts > >No, actually, "for the purposes of posting", your opinion doesn't >count at all to most people. you knwo you efforts are getting boring http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228187 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:43:20 -0400 Message-ID: <01o1e2l6ndp0dmuc4rau07vlioog34tdb5@4ax.com> References: <44ddec1b$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <%dmDg.9451$FN2.1314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <42lsd2ddni97cu2bucrj73j36unefvptlg@4ax.com> <0l31e293dga4k6d7j764m2bee6ubn0t25h@4ax.com> <6bn1e2lmeh8adsvjkmral0r9tih3dlbfie@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:31:29 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:55:07 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:12:21 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: > >>>Sorry, I don't share your religious incredulity. I don't recognize >>>"sin" as anything but a nonsense word. > >>you certainly a polite ham ....NOT > >Is that religious bigotry I'm hearing, Mark? "Accept my beliefs as >fact or be labeled impolite"? if you are hearing anything seek medical help most like but you are misreading the stament you can politely disagree with re;ligoous beliefes without labeling them as nonsense it is not polite to label such thigs as nonsense if you were polite youd know that http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228188 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: id theft is crime Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:45:29 -0400 Message-ID: References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:34:21 -0400, "Mark Morgan" wrote: id theft is crime http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228189 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <8ospd2lfvgmbtpd1s6b0orl41qjudi5du5@4ax.com> <26jrd2pug4448ng9i6p69924i5jcer21a3@4ax.com> <1155402655.846630.24010@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <90ksd29a82a6ui32fpl1sshph1f9vld103@4ax.com> <1155422570.385867.308540@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:45:32 GMT Al Klein wrote: > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:36:29 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >> but calling someone a cheat on federal requirement is > > Post a link to my post calling you "a cheat on federal requirement" - > or even just calling you a cheat. I seem to recall you saying that anyone who didn't take his test at an FCC office probably cheated. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228190 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 14 Aug 2006 13:48:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1155588532.913978.266600@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <8ospd2lfvgmbtpd1s6b0orl41qjudi5du5@4ax.com> Cecil Moore wrote: > Al Klein wrote: > > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:36:29 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >> but calling someone a cheat on federal requirement is > > > > Post a link to my post calling you "a cheat on federal requirement" - > > or even just calling you a cheat. > > I seem to recall you saying that anyone who didn't take > his test at an FCC office probably cheated. oh that doesn't count for who took the test having crawled though broken glas in blizzard up hill both ways > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228191 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <3O6Dg.7773$FN2.4946@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <65osd21lq4gps07j6atbcg9su4cfcq5sa7@4ax.com> <79m1e2h039r5a4p4l11ekso7lo6nhk1fh0@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:50:25 GMT Al Klein wrote: > Those trying to eliminate the code requirement are the ones trying to > alter history. The past cannot be altered. Only the present, which is not history, can be altered. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228192 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <7l21e2dvu794qnmr8gfqnicusbe9epf2r4@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:54:01 GMT Al Klein wrote: > Like it was "killed" all through the 30s, 40s, 50, 60s, etc.? Code > was required, as was drawing schematics. Yet there were more hams > every year than there were the year before. You have a strange > concept of "kill". Following your line of reasoning, skill with buggy whips should be part of the requirements for a driver's license. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228193 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 14 Aug 2006 13:58:41 -0700 Message-ID: <1155589121.468411.216920@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Cecil Moore wrote: > Al Klein wrote: > > Like it was "killed" all through the 30s, 40s, 50, 60s, etc.? Code > > was required, as was drawing schematics. Yet there were more hams > > every year than there were the year before. You have a strange > > concept of "kill". > > Following your line of reasoning, skill with buggy whips > should be part of the requirements for a driver's license. and sewing skill for a pilots license after all canvas was once prime plane covering > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228194 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: References: <580Eg.94679$9d4.2525@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:46:01 GMT On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:53:53 GMT, "Lee" wrote: >> There are alot of affordable amplifiers designed for TV that you could >use >> at the base of your QFH. You might consider building your owm amplifier >to >> fit in the base of the QFH. >> I wouldnt recomend the use of a pre-amp at the antenna for NOAA satelite >> station. They often cause more problems than they solve. >> All Electronics has alot of ferrite tubes that can be used to fit over >the >> coax so you wouldnt need the "4 turn choke". > >`4 turn Choke Balun`.....typo.... > >> >> Jerry > >Thanks Jerry, i`ll give it some thought as i`m right under some pmr towers >which breaks through a little from 150megs pagers and a preamp may worsen >things... Lee, It is easy to build a preamp with high gain and low noise figure and it will exhibit superb performance on a test bench in a shielded room on a signal generator. In a real world environment, you are unlikely to realise the full sensitivity of the receiver due to: - external noise; and - intermodulation products generated within your receiver (preamp). It is harder to build a preamp with low intermodulation distortion, and one method of reducing the results of that intermodulation distortion is front end filtering to reduce the level of undesired signals reaching the non-linear devices. Front end selectivity costs much more money than a low NF preamp transistor or gasfet. Whilst wideband preamps are available at low cost, it is quite likely that they will actually degrade your receiver performance. It may even be that adding an external filter will improve your S/N ratio. An interesting test to perform is to note the S/N ratio, add a small attenuator to the receiver input, and again measure the S/N ratio. If the S/N ratio improves, it is an indicator that you have significant intermodulation distortion and front end filtering may improve the sensitivity. I listened last night and could hear NOAA 14 on a hand held scanner (IC-R20) with a 130mm long rubber duckie off my 2m transceiver. It wasn't good enough for pictures, but it could be heard... so it shouldn't take a lot of receiver sensititivity to decode it well. (BTW, I could not hear the bird using a 200mm whip on the scanner... to much noise from intermod products). I know you asked about coax and you are seeking a low loss coax situation, coax loss might be less important that adequate receiver front end filtering so that you can realise most of its potential in the presence of other strong signals. In the absence of that, coax loss might actually improve S/N! Owen PS: I recently performed some tests on the new Icom IC-7000 on 144MHz to determine the usable sensitivity on a wideband antenna, and although the specified sensitivity is -126dBm, the sensitivity when connected to a Diamond D-130 at this location was -96dBm, that is 30dB poorer than spec, and the main contibution was IMD within the IC-7000. Putting a 10dB attenuator inline improved the sensitivity by 14dB! -- Article: 228195 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "gianluca" <9a6nfg@hamradio.hr> Subject: Re: Comet triband CX-901 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 00:23:53 +0200 Message-ID: References: pa dobro Adame svugdije te ima 73 9a6nfg Gianluca Rovinj! "9A4QV" wrote in message news:eb7133$gk9$1@ss408.t-com.hr... > Hello, > > I have the mentioned antenna but in the transport I lost my radials and > manuals. > > Can you be so kind to tell me the length of the radials. (Length with and > without the threads) Also it will be nice to know the diameter of the > radials. > > Thanks in advance, > > Adam, 9A4QV Article: 228196 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> <6ZidnbhHj4zMF33ZnZ2dnUVZ8qqdnZ2d@bt.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:04:30 GMT On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:58:32 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Reg Edwards wrote: >> I don't know, never did know, how to use an old fashioned, mid-20th >> century Smith Chart. > >Reg, I'm curious how you would solve this stub problem >without a Smith Chart. > > | 45 deg | 45 deg | >Source====Z01=========Z02====open > >Stub sections are lossless. Z01 = 600 ohms and is 45 >degrees long. Z02 = 50 ohms and is 45 degrees long. >What is the impedance looking into the stub from the >source? I missed the significance of this problem Cecil. Is it principally a theoretical (being lossless) problem that a Smith chart can solve, or does it have some other significance? Whilst a Smith chart is great for visualising transmission line problems, a great way for visually mapping impedance over a range of frequencies, it isn't the most practical way to solve practical problems when we have access to the computing power commonly available to designers today. Owen PS: I think the problem you have given can be solved with simple trig: find the reactance of the Z02 section using one trig term, find the length of Z01 that would deliver that reactance using one trig term, add that length and the actual length of Z01 section, find the reactance of the Z01 section using one trig term. I could do that in a flash with a scientific hand calculator while you were sharpening your pencil. It is a trivial problem either way, and can only ever be an approximation of a practical problem. -- Article: 228197 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: References: <580Eg.94679$9d4.2525@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 00:54:26 GMT On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 00:17:40 GMT, "Jerry Martes" > Not that it makes alot of difference, but, you could have been hearing >NOAA 17 on 137.62. Its coordinates may have been different from where you >were anticipating while orienting your 200mm scanner whip. > And, as you probably know you'll need about 30 KHz minimum if you want to >produce images from the NOAA satellites. I think the IC R20 selectivity >is either too narrow or too wide for producing APT images even when the >signal strength is adequate. But, you probably knew that. It was actually NOAA 15 that I heard (sorry for the typo) and I was listening to the APT signal on 137.5MHz in USB mode. I am pretty confident it was the bird, the doppler shift changed direction at the right moment. I was more interested in the strength, I couldn't find a ready source of link budget calcs on the 'net. Owen -- Article: 228198 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Licorice Subject: US Scheme Could Affect Global Communications Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:06:45 -0000 Message-ID: <12e27h5q0abe83e@corp.supernews.com> US satellite protection scheme could affect global communications http://www.physorg.com/news74778465.html A proposed US system to protect satellites from solar storms or high-altitude nuclear detonations could cause side-effects that lead to radio communication blackouts, according to new research. If activated, the "radiation belt remediation" (RBR) system could significantly alter the upper atmosphere, seriously disrupting high frequency (HF) radio wave transmissions and GPS navigation around the world. The remediation system aims to protect hundreds of low earth-orbiting satellites from having their onboard electronics ruined by charged particles in unusually intense Van Allen radiation belts "pumped up" by high-altitude nuclear explosions or powerful solar storms. The approach, which is being pursued by the US Air Force and the US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, involves the generation of very low frequency radio waves to flush particles from the radiation belts and dump them into the upper atmosphere over one or several days. The scientific team from New Zealand, UK and Finland calculate that Earth's upper atmosphere could be dramatically affected by such a system, causing unusually intense HF blackouts around most of the world. The disruptions result from a deluge of dumped charged particles temporarily changing the ionosphere from a "mirror" that bounces high frequency radio waves around the planet to a "sponge " that soaks them up. The research is published in the August edition of the international journal Annales Geophysicae. The researchers suggest that policymakers need to carefully consider the implications of remediation. If the intense radiation belts resulted from a rogue state detonating a nuclear-tipped missile in the upper atmosphere, using such remediation technology would probably be acceptable to the international community, regardless of any side effects. However, using the system to mitigate the lesser risk to satellites from charged particles injected by naturally occurring solar storms should be considered more closely. The impact of the disruption to global communications needs to be weighed carefully against the potential gains. Source: British Antarctic Survey Article: 228199 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: m II Subject: Re: US Scheme Could Affect Global Communications References: <12e27h5q0abe83e@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:28:10 GMT Licorice wrote: > If activated, the "radiation belt remediation" (RBR) system > could significantly alter the upper atmosphere, seriously > disrupting high frequency (HF) radio wave transmissions and > GPS navigation around the world. dxAss will be along shortly to explain why this is perfectly normal and desirable but that David Eduardo and his system are the spawn of Satan. mike Article: 228200 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> <6ZidnbhHj4zMF33ZnZ2dnUVZ8qqdnZ2d@bt.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:33:32 GMT Owen Duffy wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> Reg, I'm curious how you would solve this stub problem >> without a Smith Chart. >> >> | 45 deg | 45 deg | >> Source====Z01=========Z02====open >> >> Stub sections are lossless. Z01 = 600 ohms and is 45 >> degrees long. Z02 = 50 ohms and is 45 degrees long. >> What is the impedance looking into the stub from the >> source? > > I missed the significance of this problem Cecil. > > Is it principally a theoretical (being lossless) problem that a Smith > chart can solve, or does it have some other significance? It's just a mental exercise with a hidden significance. This is the type of problem that I would solve with a Smith Chart. How about a solution? What impedance does the source see? The physical length of the stub is 90 degrees. What is the electrical length of the stub in degrees? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228201 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <4bbqd2pmudip3s3j0geqbookdclrvqrq0s@4ax.com> <1155402696.148105.304140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <09ksd2d8kdt36t61dsk27espsee0e6i2o3@4ax.com> <9vsvd2lfgc7m2cv9hds5h79ri5hchdk6uf@4ax.com> <6ql1e29j9ti7r0bh7721dmsq6jq3r2cckm@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:40:51 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:20:01 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:06:32 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:32:06 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >>>but your point? >>That if you bought 5 clues you'd still be less than clueless. > but still your point is what? Want to go for another ride on the merry-go-round? Article: 228202 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155265525.310166.4760@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <4fspd2p7qecou8mmsf5tipdh59nfo5l2qs@4ax.com> <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155433505.131116.226510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155434298.409922.126140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:41:34 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:20:50 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:07:30 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:32:41 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >> >>>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:15:18 -0400, Al Klein >>>wrote: >>> >>>>On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" >>>>wrote: >>>> >>>>>hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>>>> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? >>>> >>>>>ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please >>>> >>>>Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. >> >>>no I did ot know that answer and you lied they did >> >>I *HAVE* capacitors that are color coded, so you lied about my lying. >then you lied when you typed " they didn't." or used english >incoreectly or Or typed something that was beyond your comprehension - a double negative. Article: 228203 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 14 Aug 2006 18:42:55 -0700 Message-ID: <1155606175.469557.27070@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> From: Al Klein on Sun, Aug 13 2006 9:15 pm Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, rec.radio.scanner, rec.radio.swap >On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: >>hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com wrote: >>> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? >>ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please > >Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. Klein, you said you were an OF. Any olde-fahrt ought to KNOW that silver-mica capacitors were color-dot-coded for about a quarter century. [look in the 1976 ARRL Handbook] Those flat cases were eventually displaced by dipped silver-mica. Paper tubular capacitors in molded plastic tubular casings were marked with color bands and were on the market for at least 15 years, maybe 20...until aced out by ceramic disc capacitors for general bypassing and coupling applications (by both tube and transistor architecture electronics). ANYONE with hands-on experience in electronics between 1950 and about 1970 would KNOW that. [okay, folks, looks like there's another imposter here...at least this one isn't trying to pass hisself off as some marine NCO...:-) LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 228204 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:43:11 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1155402696.148105.304140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <09ksd2d8kdt36t61dsk27espsee0e6i2o3@4ax.com> <9vsvd2lfgc7m2cv9hds5h79ri5hchdk6uf@4ax.com> <6ql1e29j9ti7r0bh7721dmsq6jq3r2cckm@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:40:51 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:20:01 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:06:32 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: >>>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:32:06 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>>>but your point? > >>>That if you bought 5 clues you'd still be less than clueless. > >> but still your point is what? > >Want to go for another ride on the merry-go-round? not esp but you do seem bent and canother round of personal attack without basis substance or relavance but that is what the ProCode side has been resorting for years and that why the state of their cause is at such a low ebb http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228205 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155347488.895791.96000@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155402608.674317.299000@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:43:48 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:22:26 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:09:43 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:34:58 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >> >>>On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:54:12 -0400, Al Klein >>>wrote: >>> >>>>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:13:23 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:24:46 -0400, Al Klein >>>>>wrote: >>>> >>>>>>Your claim to know what I'm thinking better than I do? Only if your >>>>>>age is a single digit. >>>> >>>>>sure I know better >>>> >>>>Then you're claiming to be a child. >> >>>nope you are claiming to something contary to fact >> >>I'm claiming that I know what I think and you don't - which is a fact. >prove it Are you telepathic? No? Then you can't know what I think. >I don't think you truely understand what you think, that is another >fact That you don't think I do is a fact. That I don't understand isn't. So what you think is incorrect and that's another fact. >>>you are worng it becoming hazing when the subject of the test is >>>unrelated to the prevlegdes it grannts >>Nope - it's just a poor test. Hazing is something entirely different. >hazing is in the ye of the beholder No, words have actual meanings sometimes. >do you have anything cogent to say? Cogent in your eyes, no, since you and cogency have never met. Article: 228206 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <0n92e2l9t01lv685oi1j7ing4nqc5tb17r@4ax.com> References: <26jrd2pug4448ng9i6p69924i5jcer21a3@4ax.com> <1155402655.846630.24010@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <90ksd29a82a6ui32fpl1sshph1f9vld103@4ax.com> <1155422570.385867.308540@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:44:27 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:45:32 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:36:29 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >>> but calling someone a cheat on federal requirement is >> Post a link to my post calling you "a cheat on federal requirement" - >> or even just calling you a cheat. >I seem to recall you saying that anyone who didn't take >his test at an FCC office probably cheated. Your memory is THAT faulty? Maybe it's just part of being lazy. Article: 228207 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:44:51 -0400 Message-ID: References: <4fspd2p7qecou8mmsf5tipdh59nfo5l2qs@4ax.com> <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155433505.131116.226510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155434298.409922.126140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:41:34 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:20:50 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:07:30 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: >> >>>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:32:41 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >>> >>>>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:15:18 -0400, Al Klein >>>>wrote: >>>> >>>>>On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" >>>>>wrote: >>>I *HAVE* capacitors that are color coded, so you lied about my lying. >>then you lied when you typed " they didn't." or used english >>incoreectly or > >Or typed something that was beyond your comprehension - a double >negative. which is gramticaly incorect so you would NNOT do that http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228208 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 14 Aug 2006 18:45:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1155606359.362135.148300@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: From: jawod on Sun, Aug 13 2006 8:16 am >an old friend wrote: >> Al Klein wrote: >>>On 12 Aug 2006 10:10:55 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: >Anyway,, >Back in the old days, we used to walk 5 miles in the snow to the FCC >field office to take our exams. You forgot: "uphill both ways, barefoot..." > We had to kneel on radiators while we >took the test. We used slide rules and crayons AND WE LIKED IT!!! You are still using crayons but I doubt you know how to use a 1950 slide-rule...too complex for brass-pounders. Oh, and FCC Field Offices were NOT 10 miles apart in the USA now, in 1956 (when I took a train 80 miles into Chicago), nor before then. >Then we'd wait 3 years to receive our license which gave us time to >teach electrons to enter and exit all the tubes...stupid little buggers, >those. Wrongo, olde-fahrt. Electrons, fields, and waves will ONLY obey THEIR rules. You can't "teach" them anything. All you can do is provide paths for them...on THEIR terms. >Boy, those were the days. When a ham was a ham, brass was for pounding >and AM signals were as wide as the day is long. That was well before 1960...like before WW2. >These "young" whippersnappers get off too easy. Pizza off, olde-fahrt. 51 years ago I would be walking a mile from a corner of an airfield NE of Tokyo to the transmitter house in the center which housed 41 HF transmitters ranging in power output from 1 KW to 40 KW. Not a single one of them used manual (morse code) radiotelegraphy modes. About two square miles of wire antennas doing 24/7 radio circuit transmission to CONUS, Hawaii, Phillippines, Okinawa, Korea, and a MAG in Vietnam. Six of those circuits used multichannel SSB (the commercial variety, like in-use prior to WW2). I STARTED that HF transmitter site work in '53, NO military schooling on kilowatt transmitters, RTTY, or SSB and NO "CW" skill necessary. >I say, rank priveleges on the basis of how big an RF burn you can take, >or on the basis of personal weight. Sounds like you had TOO MANY of those "RF burns." See Dr. Robeson in here...he will bandage your "burns" with one of his medical-practice certificates...those are sterile. >I may have said it before: take the FCC out of it completely and go with >the FDA. Those boys know how to grade. "Ham is the butchered meat of swine?" Last guy I heard utter that phrase is SK...used to work with him (he was a code-tested Extra)...he came out with that every once in a while when some amateur morseman got too full of himself. >(Too much tea this morning!) Try a detox program, okay? QRT. LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 228209 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <26jrd2pug4448ng9i6p69924i5jcer21a3@4ax.com> <1155402655.846630.24010@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <90ksd29a82a6ui32fpl1sshph1f9vld103@4ax.com> <1155422570.385867.308540@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:47:49 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:24:36 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:12:03 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:36:29 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >you can't explain it to me or to a frormer (or current memeber of >Mensa Being a member of MENSA doesn't mean anything more than potential. It certainly doesn't mean realized potential. > nor it seems can you explain where it counts...The FCC I have to explain something to the FCC? >>>>Look up the definition of "libel". Part of it is "malicious >>>>defamation". Calling a penny a cent isn't malicious, nor is it >>>>defamatory. >>>but calling someone a cheat on federal requirement is >>Post a link to my post calling you "a cheat on federal requirement" - >>or even just calling you a cheat. >why? you would simply dey it I'd deny a link? Would you deny a sunrise? Are you *really* as daft as you sound here? >but you compare those that took and passed the test required at the >time to theifs that sure soound calling em cheats to me But since I never compared anyone to anything, it's all in your mind. Article: 228210 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 14 Aug 2006 18:48:41 -0700 Message-ID: <1155606520.963945.264800@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: From: jawod on Sun, Aug 13 2006 3:24 pm Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, rec.radio.scanner, rec.radio.swap >If MENSA membership is important to you, fine. Most of us find it a bit >pretentious and downright silly. > >If someone wants to use MENSA to elevate themselves above the rest, they >are perched on very rickety stilts. If MORSEMANSHIP is important to you, fine. Most of US find it a bit pretentious and downright silly. If someone wants to use MORSEMANSHIP to elevate themselves above the rest, they are perched on very rickety stilts. [I'll just add something like...]: Stilts are needed by morsemen because their appearance, relative to REAL radio people, are very short. They try to gain "height" of their reputation by using 1930s standards in the year 2006. Tsk, they don't realize that their new "height" still falls short of everyone else... LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 228211 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:49:43 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1155347488.895791.96000@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155402608.674317.299000@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:43:48 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:22:26 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:09:43 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: >> >>>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:34:58 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >>> >>>>On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:54:12 -0400, Al Klein >>>>wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:13:23 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 18:24:46 -0400, Al Klein >>>>>>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>>Your claim to know what I'm thinking better than I do? Only if your >>>>>>>age is a single digit. >>>>> >>>>>>sure I know better >>>>> >>>>>Then you're claiming to be a child. >>> >>>>nope you are claiming to something contary to fact >>> >>>I'm claiming that I know what I think and you don't - which is a fact. > >>prove it > >Are you telepathic? No? Then you can't know what I think. where is your proof without proving that I am not a telpath or simply smarter than you you can't proove that assertion Indeed I asert the claim you can't know what you think, anymore than I can. based on science the human often decieves itself therfore you don't know in many cases what you truly think, anymore than I know what I truely think > >>I don't think you truely understand what you think, that is another >>fact > >That you don't think I do is a fact. progress boyo > That I don't understand isn't. prove that assertion you can't >So what you think is incorrect and that's another fact. maybe it is incorrect maybe it isn't that is the fact you can not prove otherwise > >>>>you are worng it becoming hazing when the subject of the test is >>>>unrelated to the prevlegdes it grannts > >>>Nope - it's just a poor test. Hazing is something entirely different. > >>hazing is in the ye of the beholder > >No, words have actual meanings sometimes. yes they do your point? > >>do you have anything cogent to say? > >Cogent in your eyes, no, since you and cogency have never met. always the personal attack such a weak case you must have http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228212 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:50:23 -0400 Message-ID: References: <26jrd2pug4448ng9i6p69924i5jcer21a3@4ax.com> <1155402655.846630.24010@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <90ksd29a82a6ui32fpl1sshph1f9vld103@4ax.com> <1155422570.385867.308540@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <0n92e2l9t01lv685oi1j7ing4nqc5tb17r@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:44:27 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:45:32 GMT, Cecil Moore >wrote: > >>Al Klein wrote: >>> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:36:29 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >>>> but calling someone a cheat on federal requirement is > >>> Post a link to my post calling you "a cheat on federal requirement" - >>> or even just calling you a cheat. > >>I seem to recall you saying that anyone who didn't take >>his test at an FCC office probably cheated. > >Your memory is THAT faulty? Maybe it's just part of being lazy. nope I recall the same thing and you cpmparing the current licene test taking as stealing something http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228213 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:54:06 -0400 Message-ID: References: <26jrd2pug4448ng9i6p69924i5jcer21a3@4ax.com> <1155402655.846630.24010@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <90ksd29a82a6ui32fpl1sshph1f9vld103@4ax.com> <1155422570.385867.308540@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:47:49 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:24:36 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:12:03 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: >>>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:36:29 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>you can't explain it to me or to a frormer (or current memeber of >>Mensa > >Being a member of MENSA doesn't mean anything more than potential. It >certainly doesn't mean realized potential. who have you convinced of your ideas btw > >> nor it seems can you explain where it counts...The FCC > >I have to explain something to the FCC? indeed you do if of course you wwanted to accomplish something instead bleating on > >>>>>Look up the definition of "libel". Part of it is "malicious >>>>>defamation". Calling a penny a cent isn't malicious, nor is it >>>>>defamatory. > >>>>but calling someone a cheat on federal requirement is > >>>Post a link to my post calling you "a cheat on federal requirement" - >>>or even just calling you a cheat. > >>why? you would simply dey it > >I'd deny a link? Would you deny a sunrise? Are you *really* as daft >as you sound here? I would never deny a sunrise but you and your sort deny all sorts of thing like the laws of unververse your stamenets honnor deccentcy toleraacne and manner what a link on that > >>but you compare those that took and passed the test required at the >>time to theifs that sure soound calling em cheats to me > >But since I never compared anyone to anything, it's all in your mind. lflat out lying now patheic http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228214 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <65osd21lq4gps07j6atbcg9su4cfcq5sa7@4ax.com> <79m1e2h039r5a4p4l11ekso7lo6nhk1fh0@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:59:51 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:50:25 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> Those trying to eliminate the code requirement are the ones trying to >> alter history. >The past cannot be altered. Only the present, which is not >history, can be altered. WOW! Did you come up with that with no outside help? (I'm not overwhelmed - I'm not even whelmed.) Article: 228215 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:03:04 -0400 Message-ID: References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <65osd21lq4gps07j6atbcg9su4cfcq5sa7@4ax.com> <79m1e2h039r5a4p4l11ekso7lo6nhk1fh0@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:59:51 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:50:25 GMT, Cecil Moore >wrote: > >>Al Klein wrote: > >>> Those trying to eliminate the code requirement are the ones trying to >>> alter history. > >>The past cannot be altered. Only the present, which is not >>history, can be altered. > >WOW! Did you come up with that with no outside help? (I'm not >overwhelmed - I'm not even whelmed.) yep you might as well admit it your arguement is totaly bankrupt you have nothing but personal attacks indeed I am ounder whemed with your perfromance Robeson took at least a year to desend so far in the personal attack realm as you have manged in roughly a month http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228216 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <3la2e21b93an8ok04d58okd0i3i120kevr@4ax.com> References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <7l21e2dvu794qnmr8gfqnicusbe9epf2r4@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:04:39 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:32:21 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:16:21 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:39:45 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >> >>>your effort to smeear anybody that disagrees with you not withstanding >>>or indeed if you succeeded in producing a test I could not pass you >>>would exclude a lot of people besides me and kill the ARS >> >you reply which had zero relavance to my statement clipped I hope you enjoyed arguing with yourself. >My statement if you enacted a standard that would in fact keep me from >passing, that would kill the ARS. You're not that important, Markie. Or that well educated that if you couldn't pass a test, very few others could. > That sort would require far more >than merely adding schamtics or going to short answer questions. it >would involved a test that would serious chalange Cecil and Len >Anderson both RF engineers, doing that would kill the ars as would the >asiine proposals of Mr Slow Code and many others >your notions are simplely not exexutable in anything like the current >sytem Since you couldn't pass a final in a high school physics class, you aren't qualified to determine what someone with an earned EE could or couldn't do. As one who earned mine, I am. >the notion that multible guess is acceptable for pilots and drivers >(amoug others) but ham radio ops is silly So you don't understand the difference between "choice" and "guess". We'll just add that to the *L*O*N*G* list of things you don't understand. Article: 228217 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <7l21e2dvu794qnmr8gfqnicusbe9epf2r4@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:05:21 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:54:01 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> Like it was "killed" all through the 30s, 40s, 50, 60s, etc.? Code >> was required, as was drawing schematics. Yet there were more hams >> every year than there were the year before. You have a strange >> concept of "kill". >Following your line of reasoning, skill with buggy whips >should be part of the requirements for a driver's license. For driving a four-in-hand, it should be. There's a keyer in my fairly new rig. Article: 228218 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <8va2e251u1820rdtb2jeef22l29ivtt5g7@4ax.com> References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <7l21e2dvu794qnmr8gfqnicusbe9epf2r4@4ax.com> <1155589121.468411.216920@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:06:06 -0400 On 14 Aug 2006 13:58:41 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: >and sewing skill for a pilots license after all canvas was once prime >plane covering Let's add "doesn't understand the difference between 'constructing' and 'piloting'". Article: 228219 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <1q21e2tet4e0c8n6436ae0bhfl3d1nq3em@4ax.com> <2hm1e2d7tscn14jb9bhgc18k8vcu3kht7f@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:07:07 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:33:15 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:17:07 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>You don't even know what an incompetent response is, so how can you >>comment on it?\ >it is like pron I can't define it but I know it when I see it >it works for the law on Pornographic materail No, actually the SCOTUS said that it DOESN'T work, which is why they came up with a definition. Article: 228220 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <03b2e2p1c23s6ia0s0vaddrspt6onqtsni@4ax.com> References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:09:57 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:41:18 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:22:13 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:47:21 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >>>>"When I robbed a man at the age of 15, I wasn't arrested." Does that >>>>make robbery legal? Your experience is only that - your experience, >>>>it's not definitive. >>>impling that Cecil stole his license by passing the tests of the day >>Not even close, but your accusation is close to being libelous. >the accusation is your not mine Your accusation that I implied that Cecil stole his license is mine? Not in this universe. >>>YOU want the license as some sort of badge of honnor >>No, I want it to mean what it meant for decades - that the holder had >>demonstrated a certain level of knowledge. >it has never meant that, not as a matt r of law Just as a matter of fact (before you were aware of ham radio), not in law. Now it doesn't mean anything in fact, just in law. Article: 228221 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <38b2e2p4saa1c7depqh79ov1ufi7vravt6@4ax.com> References: <44ddec1b$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <%dmDg.9451$FN2.1314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <42lsd2ddni97cu2bucrj73j36unefvptlg@4ax.com> <99tvd2193fjj37j8c9ngnlelh91t9tgqaj@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:10:38 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:41:50 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:30:02 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:54:10 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >> >>>not in my opinion which for the pruposes of posting is all that counts >> >>No, actually, "for the purposes of posting", your opinion doesn't >>count at all to most people. >you knwo you efforts are getting boring Then ... what's your famous line? Oh, yes, bail, Markie. Article: 228222 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <44ddec1b$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <%dmDg.9451$FN2.1314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <42lsd2ddni97cu2bucrj73j36unefvptlg@4ax.com> <0l31e293dga4k6d7j764m2bee6ubn0t25h@4ax.com> <6bn1e2lmeh8adsvjkmral0r9tih3dlbfie@4ax.com> <01o1e2l6ndp0dmuc4rau07vlioog34tdb5@4ax.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:12:59 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:43:20 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:31:29 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:55:07 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >> >>>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:12:21 -0400, Al Klein >>>wrote: >> >>>>Sorry, I don't share your religious incredulity. I don't recognize >>>>"sin" as anything but a nonsense word. >> >>>you certainly a polite ham ....NOT >> >>Is that religious bigotry I'm hearing, Mark? "Accept my beliefs as >>fact or be labeled impolite"? >if you are hearing anything seek medical help most like >but you are misreading the stament You called me impolite because of my religious view. >you can politely disagree with re;ligoous beliefes without labeling >them as nonsense I didn't label any religious belief as nonsense - that's in your head, because you don't understand English. >it is not polite to label such thigs as nonsense It's not impolite to label nonsensical things as nonsense. >if you were polite youd know that If you were at least a tad intelligent, you'd know a lot that you don't know now. Article: 228223 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:16:54 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:33:50 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:02:16 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:55:58 GMT, Cecil Moore >>wrote: >> >>>No, I'm wishing that every amateur radio operator had >>>an above average IQ. >> >>Easy solution - only award licenses to those with above average IQs. >only if you throw away a little document like the constitution So we have to give everyone a driver's license, even those who can't drive? And let everyone vote, even those who are mentally incompetent? No discrimination based on anything? The Constitution doesn't prevent us from imposing standards, Markie. And the law certainly doesn't guarantee that we're all equal, only that we all be given equal opportunity to EARN what we want. There's no Constitutional guarantee that the government will give us everything we want, or that it can't treat different people in accordance with those differences. Article: 228224 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:25:05 -0400 Message-ID: <2rb2e29r8di0fv5l1rnv6pasjjri1lvptr@4ax.com> References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <7l21e2dvu794qnmr8gfqnicusbe9epf2r4@4ax.com> <3la2e21b93an8ok04d58okd0i3i120kevr@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:04:39 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:32:21 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:16:21 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: >> >>>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:39:45 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >>> >>>>your effort to smeear anybody that disagrees with you not withstanding >>>>or indeed if you succeeded in producing a test I could not pass you >>>>would exclude a lot of people besides me and kill the ARS >>> >>you reply which had zero relavance to my statement clipped > >I hope you enjoyed arguing with yourself. wasn't do that was corecting your misinformation > >>My statement if you enacted a standard that would in fact keep me from >>passing, that would kill the ARS. > >You're not that important, Markie. Or that well educated that if you >couldn't pass a test, very few others could. sure I am I hold a Master degree in geophysics my special is sesmic waves rf is much the same except for the medium a few constans and such > >> That sort would require far more >>than merely adding schamtics or going to short answer questions. it >>would involved a test that would serious chalange Cecil and Len >>Anderson both RF engineers, doing that would kill the ars as would the >>asiine proposals of Mr Slow Code and many others > >>your notions are simplely not exexutable in anything like the current >>sytem > >Since you couldn't pass a final in a high school physics class, you >aren't qualified to determine what someone with an earned EE could or >couldn't do. As one who earned mine, I am. gee I got an an A in My HS physics class and for that matter a B in my course physics course on E&M theory I certainly am quailified again BTW you imply I cheated or somehow did not earn mine I did did I have to work as hard as you maybe not but then I don't think You should have had to work as hard as you did I regret I can' change that for you but the I did so you must BS is not going to carry on if I can help it > >>the notion that multible guess is acceptable for pilots and drivers >>(amoug others) but ham radio ops is silly > >So you don't understand the difference between "choice" and "guess". >We'll just add that to the *L*O*N*G* list of things you don't >understand. sure I do I just don't why Ham radio requires a system more rigouous than pilots http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228225 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:26:08 -0400 Message-ID: References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <7l21e2dvu794qnmr8gfqnicusbe9epf2r4@4ax.com> <1155589121.468411.216920@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <8va2e251u1820rdtb2jeef22l29ivtt5g7@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:06:06 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On 14 Aug 2006 13:58:41 -0700, "an old friend" >wrote: > >>and sewing skill for a pilots license after all canvas was once prime >>plane covering > >Let's add "doesn't understand the difference between 'constructing' >and 'piloting'". lets not you want to tkaet the same notion into Radio why not hold pilots to same sort of stanards as Radio Ops after flying is a bit more dangerous http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228226 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:26:49 -0400 Message-ID: References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <7l21e2dvu794qnmr8gfqnicusbe9epf2r4@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:05:21 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:54:01 GMT, Cecil Moore >wrote: > >>Al Klein wrote: > >>> Like it was "killed" all through the 30s, 40s, 50, 60s, etc.? Code >>> was required, as was drawing schematics. Yet there were more hams >>> every year than there were the year before. You have a strange >>> concept of "kill". > >>Following your line of reasoning, skill with buggy whips >>should be part of the requirements for a driver's license. > >For driving a four-in-hand, it should be. There's a keyer in my >fairly new rig. wht you mean you don't do REAL Morse code with straight key may may http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228227 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:27:31 -0400 Message-ID: References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <1q21e2tet4e0c8n6436ae0bhfl3d1nq3em@4ax.com> <2hm1e2d7tscn14jb9bhgc18k8vcu3kht7f@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:07:07 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:33:15 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:17:07 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: > >>>You don't even know what an incompetent response is, so how can you >>>comment on it?\ > >>it is like pron I can't define it but I know it when I see it > >>it works for the law on Pornographic materail > >No, actually the SCOTUS said that it DOESN'T work, which is why they >came up with a definition. well not they did not they left it at comuinty stadards which is not exactly an algorythic matter http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228228 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:36:19 -0500 From: Tom Ring Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> <6ZidnbhHj4zMF33ZnZ2dnUVZ8qqdnZ2d@bt.com> Message-ID: <44e13324$0$1013$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Cecil Moore wrote: > > > It's just a mental exercise with a hidden significance. This > is the type of problem that I would solve with a Smith Chart. > > How about a solution? What impedance does the source see? The > physical length of the stub is 90 degrees. What is the electrical > length of the stub in degrees? KISS But if you did that you couldn't get this thread to last forever. tom K0TAR Article: 228229 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:37:46 -0400 Message-ID: References: <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:16:54 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:33:50 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:02:16 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: >> >>>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:55:58 GMT, Cecil Moore >>>wrote: >>> >>>>No, I'm wishing that every amateur radio operator had >>>>an above average IQ. >>> >>>Easy solution - only award licenses to those with above average IQs. > >>only if you throw away a little document like the constitution > >So we have to give everyone a driver's license, even those who can't >drive? no becuase driving is dangerous peotcaily ham radio is not furtehr what evidence do you advance that Higher make beter radio ops indeed you reject the notion that higher IQ means much of anything > And let everyone vote, even those who are mentally >incompetent? most esp we should not restrict the mentaly imcpomtant form from voting since the likely result in time is everyone being declared so > No discrimination based on anything? not on something un related to the matter being regulated Morse Code was never vital for Hams to be operate once we had voice we could have done away with such testing (aprt from the treaty) the requirement for Morse being to avoid the military on cw would have meant a voice that could read code would simply have to qsy everytime he heard CW) today theere is NO requirement for CW testing. It is not needed that I know CW in order to operate at all. Indeed even if we don't stick to band plans I don't need to be able read a CW signal to know it is there, and reconize the frequency is in use > >The Constitution doesn't prevent us from imposing standards, Markie. can't you show enough manner to call me by my name which is Mr Morgan since I gave you no leave to address me familier >And the law certainly doesn't guarantee that we're all equal, only >that we all be given equal opportunity to EARN what we want. and that anything in our way must relate to matter being regulated no harm will result if I don't know Morse code many hams ven now on HF don't know it well enough to use indeed there was never a test to determine if we could use it on the air at all I expect the Govt not to require mye to demstrate a skill that is completely uneeded in order to access public airwaves the FCC (and I et al) have regrected as false all the arguements that Code testing makes one a better operator you have advanced no real reason why I need to know without looking ti up whattype of occiclator a given circut is you adavnce no answer to how we would insure that the tests you want to see are fairly given and graded accross the country > There's >no Constitutional guarantee that the government will give us >everything we want, or that it can't treat different people in >accordance with those differences. no one is asking the govt me everything we want or the rest of the nosense you are spouting http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228230 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:39:23 -0400 Message-ID: <2sc2e21rcdgvad7llrnlmjpflaq1fjeehi@4ax.com> References: <44dded8c$0$6593$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <03b2e2p1c23s6ia0s0vaddrspt6onqtsni@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:09:57 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:41:18 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:22:13 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: >>>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:47:21 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>>>>"When I robbed a man at the age of 15, I wasn't arrested." Does that >>>>>make robbery legal? Your experience is only that - your experience, >>>>>it's not definitive. > >>>>impling that Cecil stole his license by passing the tests of the day > >>>Not even close, but your accusation is close to being libelous. > >>the accusation is your not mine > >Your accusation that I implied that Cecil stole his license is mine? sure it is >Not in this universe. read your ownn stuff man > >>>>YOU want the license as some sort of badge of honnor > >>>No, I want it to mean what it meant for decades - that the holder had >>>demonstrated a certain level of knowledge. > >>it has never meant that, not as a matt r of law > >Just as a matter of fact (before you were aware of ham radio), not in >law. Now it doesn't mean anything in fact, just in law. you have not proven that assertion indeed your efforts have failed However I am certain the FCC has not agreed with this notion likely longer than I have lived http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228231 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:39:47 -0400 Message-ID: <2vc2e2djnpfa848hsle9ki8o7oqkhfhde6@4ax.com> References: <44ddec1b$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <%dmDg.9451$FN2.1314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <42lsd2ddni97cu2bucrj73j36unefvptlg@4ax.com> <99tvd2193fjj37j8c9ngnlelh91t9tgqaj@4ax.com> <38b2e2p4saa1c7depqh79ov1ufi7vravt6@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:10:38 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:41:50 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:30:02 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: >> >>>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:54:10 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >>> >>>>not in my opinion which for the pruposes of posting is all that counts >>> >>>No, actually, "for the purposes of posting", your opinion doesn't >>>count at all to most people. >>you knwo you efforts are getting boring > >Then ... what's your famous line? Oh, yes, bail, Markie. I have that option yes http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228232 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:40:41 -0400 Message-ID: References: <44ddec1b$0$6597$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <%dmDg.9451$FN2.1314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <42lsd2ddni97cu2bucrj73j36unefvptlg@4ax.com> <0l31e293dga4k6d7j764m2bee6ubn0t25h@4ax.com> <6bn1e2lmeh8adsvjkmral0r9tih3dlbfie@4ax.com> <01o1e2l6ndp0dmuc4rau07vlioog34tdb5@4ax.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:12:59 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:43:20 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > >>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:31:29 -0400, Al Klein >>wrote: >> >>>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:55:07 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >>> >>>>On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:12:21 -0400, Al Klein >>>>wrote: >>> >>>>>Sorry, I don't share your religious incredulity. I don't recognize >>>>>"sin" as anything but a nonsense word. >>> >>>>you certainly a polite ham ....NOT >>> >>>Is that religious bigotry I'm hearing, Mark? "Accept my beliefs as >>>fact or be labeled impolite"? >>if you are hearing anything seek medical help most like >>but you are misreading the stament > >You called me impolite because of my religious view. no I called you impolite becuase of your illmanned statement babout other peoples religous view flushing the rest http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228233 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jerry Martes" References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> <6ZidnbhHj4zMF33ZnZ2dnUVZ8qqdnZ2d@bt.com> Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 03:06:31 GMT "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:Mv9Eg.854$q63.130@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com... > Owen Duffy wrote: >> Cecil Moore wrote: >>> Reg, I'm curious how you would solve this stub problem >>> without a Smith Chart. >>> >>> | 45 deg | 45 deg | >>> Source====Z01=========Z02====open >>> >>> Stub sections are lossless. Z01 = 600 ohms and is 45 >>> degrees long. Z02 = 50 ohms and is 45 degrees long. >>> What is the impedance looking into the stub from the >>> source? >> >> I missed the significance of this problem Cecil. >> >> Is it principally a theoretical (being lossless) problem that a Smith >> chart can solve, or does it have some other significance? > > It's just a mental exercise with a hidden significance. This > is the type of problem that I would solve with a Smith Chart. > > How about a solution? What impedance does the source see? The > physical length of the stub is 90 degrees. What is the electrical > length of the stub in degrees? > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Hi Cecil Is it posible that the length of the "stubs" change? I'd have thought the length of the stub is always the same. 45 degrees should always be 45 degrees, shouldnt it?? An open circuit, 45 degrees back along a 50 ohm line looks like 50 ohms capacitive. That 50 ohms looks like something like 500 ohms inductive as viewed 45 degrees back along a 600 ohm line. I'd guess your point is that 500 ohms of pure inductive reactance is never seen 90 degrees back from an open, no matter what the Zo of the line Jerry Article: 228234 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "L." References: <44dec558$0$6587$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:08:35 -0400 Message-ID: <44e13b06$0$6590$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> wrote in message news:s8c2e2hhbsq44hadrvsd3mm107dgg6g3um@4ax.com... > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:16:54 -0400, Al Klein > wrote: > I'm not sure where you're coming from with "these" statements............. > today theere is NO requirement for CW testing. It is not needed that I > know CW in order to operate at all. Indeed even if we don't stick to > band plans I don't need to be able read a CW signal to know it is > there, and reconize the frequency is in use UNTIL the Code requirement is abolished for good - which to my recollection - it has not for U.S. hams (yet), then to get on H.F. you most certainly are required to pass the 5 WPM code exam. > no harm will result if I don't know Morse code many hams ven now on HF > don't know it well enough to use indeed there was never a test to > determine if we could use it on the air at all > Also, I think if you read Part 97 - you may be surprised. VEs can give either a receiving test OR "sending" test. USUALLY (most of the time) - it is a "receiving" test. Whatever it takes for them to have "the examinee" prove his/her knowledge of the code at 5 WPM. For example, you could claim tone deafness to me - ok - so instead of "receiving" the code, I could have you "send" the code. Before the code dropped to 5 WPM - you could get a doctor to sign a waiver and you got code credit. BUT once the code was dropped, so too were the waivers. I know it may sound hokey to have you "send" code if you claim tone deafness, but the other options are a buzzer sending YOU the code - you decipher - or a flashing light or whatever. AND the FCC stated to the VEs that THOSE claiming handicaps are the ones responsible for supplying the equipment to enable them to have every reasonable chance of passing. Also, that code test "could" be broken down into segments. Instead of playing a tape with a full message as you would to most applicants, the VEs could break it down in segments of letters, words, sentences at a time for someone with severe handicaps. WHATEVER was able to give that applicant every reasonable chance of passing without much stress. Argue that with THEM - "I" didn't make the rules. So, just when was it that CODE was "abolished" as an "Exam" requirement? Maybe I missed some mail from the VECs and FCC to tell me to quit testing for 5 WPM code to get on H.F. ........... You give me a date that it went into effect, and I'll retract my post............. L. Article: 228235 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:12:19 -0400 Message-ID: References: <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> <44e13b06$0$6590$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:08:35 -0400, "L." wrote: > > wrote in message >news:s8c2e2hhbsq44hadrvsd3mm107dgg6g3um@4ax.com... >> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:16:54 -0400, Al Klein >> wrote: >> > >I'm not sure where you're coming from with "these" statements............. > >> today theere is NO requirement for CW testing. It is not needed that I >> know CW in order to operate at all. Indeed even if we don't stick to >> band plans I don't need to be able read a CW signal to know it is >> there, and reconize the frequency is in use > >UNTIL the Code requirement is abolished for good - the is no need or proper reason if you prefer that wording http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228236 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> <6ZidnbhHj4zMF33ZnZ2dnUVZ8qqdnZ2d@bt.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 05:01:03 GMT On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:04:30 GMT, Owen Duffy wrote: >PS: I think the problem you have given can be solved with simple trig: >find the reactance of the Z02 section using one trig term, Z=-j50*cot(45)=-j50 > find the >length of Z01 that would deliver that reactance using one trig term, l=acot(50/600)=85.2 >add that length and the actual length of Z01 section, find the Z01'=85.2+45=130.2 >reactance of the Z01 section using one trig term. I could do that in a X=-j600*cot(130.2)=j507.7 >flash with a scientific hand calculator while you were sharpening your >pencil. > >It is a trivial problem either way, and can only ever be an >approximation of a practical problem. But you wouldn't get that accuracy from the Smith chart. Owen -- Article: 228237 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jerry Martes" References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> <6ZidnbhHj4zMF33ZnZ2dnUVZ8qqdnZ2d@bt.com> Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 05:07:58 GMT "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:q9cEg.6759$o27.4064@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com... > Jerry Martes wrote: >> Is it posible that the length of the "stubs" change? I'd have thought >> the length of the stub is always the same. 45 degrees should always be >> 45 degrees, shouldnt it?? An open circuit, 45 degrees back along a 50 >> ohm line looks like 50 ohms capacitive. That 50 ohms looks like >> something like 500 ohms inductive as viewed 45 degrees back along a 600 >> ohm line. >> I'd guess your point is that 500 ohms of pure inductive reactance is >> never seen 90 degrees back from an open, no matter what the Zo of the >> line > > The point I'm eventually going to make is about loading coils > in mobile antennas but let's stick with the above stub example. Hi Cecil I sure dont want to get involved with any mobil antenna loading coil discussions, I admit that I'm not qualified. > > | 45 deg | 45 deg | > Source====Z01=========Z02====open > > Z01 = 600 ohms, Z02 = 50 ohms > > If the Z0 were constant and the stub was 90 degrees long, > the source would see zero ohms. Yeah, but is isnt a line with a constant Zo > Yet in our above example > the stub is physically 90 degrees long and the source sees > +j500 ohms. The above stub is electrically 130 degrees long. I'd disagree with a conclusion that, just because the impedance seen by the source is 500 ohms, the line connecting it to a load is 90 degrees long. > There is a 45 degree delay through the Z01 section of stub. > There is a 45 degree delay through the Z02 section of stub. > There is a 40 degree phase shift at the Z01 to Z02 junction If I disagree, do I have to get involved with some lengthy mathmatical discussion? I'm not skilled enough to argue with you Cecil. I'm not even smart. But, I sure dont see how anyone can conclude there is a phase shift at the junction of two transmission lines. There is a shunt capacitive reactance that results from that abrupt change in dimensions, but I wouldnt have thought it would be enough to result in 40 degrees of phase shift. . > > If we want to turn the above stub into a functional 1/4WL > open stub such that the source sees zero ohms, we can > remove 40 degrees from the Z02 section. If we make the > Z02 section 5 degrees long, the entire stub will be > electrically 90 degrees long, and 1/4WL resonant. > There will be a 45 degree delay through the Z01 section > There will be a 5 degree delay through the Z02 section > There will be a 40 degree phase shift at the Z01 to Z02 > junction. I think I agree with the concept you are using. You are giving the condition where a purely capacitive reactor of 50 ohm impedance is required to be resonated by introducing a series inductor. A short length of higher impedance transmission line will sure do that. The higher the line Zo, the shorter it needs to be to resonate that 50 ohm capacitor. > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Jerry Article: 228238 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" References: <580Eg.94679$9d4.2525@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 07:00:27 GMT "Owen Duffy" wrote in message news:fjp1e2tvkgiq1b87ljueviur34qao887dv@4ax.com... > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:53:53 GMT, "Lee" > wrote: > > > >> There are alot of affordable amplifiers designed for TV that you could > >use > >> at the base of your QFH. You might consider building your owm amplifier > >to > >> fit in the base of the QFH. > >> I wouldnt recomend the use of a pre-amp at the antenna for NOAA satelite > >> station. They often cause more problems than they solve. > >> All Electronics has alot of ferrite tubes that can be used to fit over > >the > >> coax so you wouldnt need the "4 turn choke". > > > >`4 turn Choke Balun`.....typo.... > > > >> > >> Jerry > > > >Thanks Jerry, i`ll give it some thought as i`m right under some pmr towers > >which breaks through a little from 150megs pagers and a preamp may worsen > >things... > > Lee, > > It is easy to build a preamp with high gain and low noise figure and > it will exhibit superb performance on a test bench in a shielded room > on a signal generator. > > In a real world environment, you are unlikely to realise the full > sensitivity of the receiver due to: > - external noise; and > - intermodulation products generated within your receiver (preamp). > > It is harder to build a preamp with low intermodulation distortion, > and one method of reducing the results of that intermodulation > distortion is front end filtering to reduce the level of undesired > signals reaching the non-linear devices. > > Front end selectivity costs much more money than a low NF preamp > transistor or gasfet. > > Whilst wideband preamps are available at low cost, it is quite likely > that they will actually degrade your receiver performance. > > It may even be that adding an external filter will improve your S/N > ratio. > > An interesting test to perform is to note the S/N ratio, add a small > attenuator to the receiver input, and again measure the S/N ratio. If > the S/N ratio improves, it is an indicator that you have significant > intermodulation distortion and front end filtering may improve the > sensitivity. I`ll consider your advice very carefully Owen, Thanks.... > I listened last night and could hear NOAA 14 on a hand held scanner > (IC-R20) with a 130mm long rubber duckie off my 2m transceiver. It > wasn't good enough for pictures, but it could be heard... so it > shouldn't take a lot of receiver sensititivity to decode it well. > (BTW, I could not hear the bird using a 200mm whip on the scanner... > to much noise from intermod products). Yes, i`ve done that also....and the handy was quite strong too but the scanner front end was awful ..... AOR2002..... Ugh!!!.. > I know you asked about coax and you are seeking a low loss coax > situation, coax loss might be less important that adequate receiver > front end filtering so that you can realise most of its potential in > the presence of other strong signals. In the absence of that, coax > loss might actually improve S/N! Surprisingly, i get quite a good picture using my Yaesu 857D also!!! ( with attenuator in, of course).... > Owen > > PS: I recently performed some tests on the new Icom IC-7000 on 144MHz > to determine the usable sensitivity on a wideband antenna, and > although the specified sensitivity is -126dBm, the sensitivity when > connected to a Diamond D-130 at this location was -96dBm, that is 30dB > poorer than spec, and the main contibution was IMD within the IC-7000. > Putting a 10dB attenuator inline improved the sensitivity by 14dB! > -- I have the Icom IC-E90 which has good audio on the NOAA`s too ... also on the ducky... Lee.....G6ZSG.... Article: 228239 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Brenda Ann" Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 19:55:12 +0900 Message-ID: References: "Paul Hinman" wrote in message news:aLfEg.400583$Mn5.137675@pd7tw3no... I frequently see postings in the ham radio related newsgroups for items currently being offered on E-Bay. All to often I that items will be shipped only to the lower 48 states, leaving hams in Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada out of the picture. What is the problem. In Canada we are well served by FEDEX and the United States Postal Service. Amateur radio equipment crosses the border with out any problem. I realize that Hawaii and Alaska may be a bit far from the "lower 48" but the same delivery services are available even though surface transportation may be a little bit slow. In the US you also have UPS, the folks in Brown which we Canadians prefer not to use because the often make the border crossing more difficult than it needs to be and we don't like getting stuck with brokerage fees. So why the discrimination, if the buyer knows that delivery may take a little longer and is prepared to accept the fact then it becomes a non problem. If the seller is intimidated by the prospect of complicated paperwork, he needn't be. Please leave it up to the buyer to decide whether he wants to bib or not. I can not speak for shipments to Europe, Africa, India, China, or the South Pacific but for fellow Americans, or friendly northern neighbours, I think that people should be prepared to deal with us. Thanx for letting get this off my chest and I realize that I have cross posted this to four different newsgroups but I wanted to get to a broad audience. Paul Don't feel too bad, Paul. You'll often notice in the same listings that (even if they ship solely by USPS) they will not ship to US military APO/FPO addresses, either. We get left out in the cold even more often than any of the above named locations. So much for supporting the troops as it were.-- Say no to institutionalized interference.Just say NO to HD/IBOC! Article: 228240 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Pete" Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:23:44 +0200 Message-ID: References: USPS Air to South Africa takes 4 days from California. Customs is handled by them and it is extremely easy to use. Great service. Americocentric sellers maybe? -- Pete . . ZS5ACT Top poster & proud of it! ------ Reply Separator ------ "Brenda Ann" wrote in message news:ebs90v$j90$1@news2.kornet.net... > > > "Paul Hinman" wrote in message > news:aLfEg.400583$Mn5.137675@pd7tw3no... > I frequently see postings in the ham radio related newsgroups for items > currently being offered on E-Bay. > > All to often I that items will be shipped only to the lower 48 states, > leaving hams in Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada out of the picture. What is > the problem. In Canada we are well served by FEDEX and the United States > Postal Service. Amateur radio equipment crosses the border with out any > problem. I realize that Hawaii and Alaska may be a bit far from the > "lower 48" but the same delivery services are available even though > surface transportation may be a little bit slow. In the US you also have > UPS, the folks in Brown which we Canadians prefer not to use because the > often make the border crossing more difficult than it needs to be and we > don't like getting stuck with brokerage fees. > > So why the discrimination, if the buyer knows that delivery may take a > little longer and is prepared to accept the fact then it becomes a non > problem. If the seller is intimidated by the prospect of complicated > paperwork, he needn't be. Please leave it up to the buyer to decide > whether he wants to bib or not. > > I can not speak for shipments to Europe, Africa, India, China, or the > South Pacific but for fellow Americans, or friendly northern neighbours, I > think that people should be prepared to deal with us. > > Thanx for letting get this off my chest and I realize that I have cross > posted this to four different newsgroups but I wanted to get to a broad > audience. > > Paul > > > Don't feel too bad, Paul. You'll often notice in the same listings that > (even if they ship solely by USPS) they will not ship to US military > APO/FPO addresses, either. We get left out in the cold even more often > than any of the above named locations. So much for supporting the troops > as it were.-- Say no to institutionalized interference.Just say NO to > HD/IBOC! > Article: 228241 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 07:36:29 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada References: Message-ID: Hmmm??? Hawaii is too hot? Canada is too big? Alaska is just right!! But this doesn't respond to the hypothesis. /s/ DD Paul Hinman wrote: > I frequently see postings in the ham radio related newsgroups for items > currently being offered on E-Bay. > > All to often I that items will be shipped only to the lower 48 states, > leaving hams in Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada out of the picture. What is > the problem. In Canada we are well served by FEDEX and the United > States Postal Service. Amateur radio equipment crosses the border with > out any problem. I realize that Hawaii and Alaska may be a bit far from > the "lower 48" but the same delivery services are available even though > surface transportation may be a little bit slow. In the US you also > have UPS, the folks in Brown which we Canadians prefer not to use > because the often make the border crossing more difficult than it needs > to be and we don't like getting stuck with brokerage fees. > > So why the discrimination, if the buyer knows that delivery may take a > little longer and is prepared to accept the fact then it becomes a non > problem. If the seller is intimidated by the prospect of complicated > paperwork, he needn't be. Please leave it up to the buyer to decide > whether he wants to bib or not. > > I can not speak for shipments to Europe, Africa, India, China, or the > South Pacific but for fellow Americans, or friendly northern neighbours, > I think that people should be prepared to deal with us. > > Thanx for letting get this off my chest and I realize that I have cross > posted this to four different newsgroups but I wanted to get to a broad > audience. > > Paul > Article: 228242 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: Back yard antenna lab... Date: 15 Aug 2006 04:39:27 -0700 Message-ID: <1155641967.352333.137730@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: John, I like your radial plugs... Good creativity... Strapping the antenna to the wood shed will not affect the tuning... So what are you guys going to measure? Gain/impedence/current drop across the inductor/? Are you going to elevated radials? There are a few easy ways to make capacitors... Early on they lined mason jars with foil inside and out... Not tuneable but can be swithced in and out to provide the bulk of the capacity and then a small variable cap in parallel for tuning... (I only thought of the banks of mason jars the instant I typed this... I don't know what the capacity would be but they will take a heck of a lot of voltage before arcing.. I will have to do that at home and measure) Anyway, you can stack up two or more 8X10 copper PCB and put Saran wrap between them Won't take a lot of voltage but may be OK for 100 watts... You can order thin sheets of Teflon to insulate the copper sheets... This will make a high voltage insulator for a capacity pile... You can adjust the capacity by sliding the plates across each other... Another way to tune would be a hinge so the plates are like butterfly wings... I vaguely remember someone, somewhere, published an article about ahigh power tuner he built with the capacitor being two copper sheets separated by thin glass... He used a threaded rod and a gear motor to slide the plates back and forth... Had limit switches, automatic motor reversing, yadda, yadda... TOo much work for a quick-n-dirty experimentor like me... Another way would be two aluminum tubes that just fit inside each other with Teflon insulator... Sliding these in and out like a trombone will change the tuning... I have actually done this.. Keeping the internal spacing even is difficult and the insulator seems to want to bunch up... Probably a pile of plates is better... Article: 228243 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gsm@mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:51:05 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: Brenda Ann wrote: > Don't feel too bad, Paul. You'll often notice in the same listings that > (even if they ship solely by USPS) they will not ship to US military APO/FPO > addresses, either. We get left out in the cold even more often than any of > the above named locations. So much for supporting the troops as it were.-- That's because shipping to an an APO/FPO is no longer a service provided by the U.S. government. At one time mail to an APO/FPO was delivered to a U.S. millitary post office that then shipped it using U.S. milltary transport, There was a good chance that the mail would actually arrive and it would be undamaged. Now APO/FPO mail is sent via the regular postal system, but the U.S. government picks up the tab. Now, the chance of the mail arriving is much less as it stands out. As for Paul's comments, they really don't hold any water. Small sellers don't ship outside the continental U.S. because they don't want the risk. If an item is lost, stolen, damaged, or takes a month or two to get delivered, they can't afford to replace it, or "eat" the loss. Paul even has more problems because Canadian customs may hold an item to determine its value, or if it can be legally imported as long as they wish. They can also assess the value for sales and other taxes. Obviously he never has had any experience clearing an item through customs. If he had he would have praised the low fees, speedy processing and general reliablity of the courier services. Considering the general quality of things sold on eBay, the sellers are actually doing you a favor. While many of the sellers will attempt to keep you satisfied, if you have to wait a month for something to arrive and in Paul's case pay GST (general sales tax), import duty and customs clearing fees, then have to send it back, he would loose a lot. Besides paying for shipping both ways, he would have to pay customs clearing fees at the U.S. border and prove that the item he is sending back was actually being returned to the U.S. as a defective purchase and not scamming the customs people by claiming it was. This means that some items both of you either have to keep or pay for and never get no matter what it costs. Where do you draw the line? $100, $200, $500? If it costs $100 to ship a radio to you and $100 to send it back, it does not make much sense. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/ Article: 228244 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "L." References: <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> <0ZNDg.118599$R26.47061@tornado.southeast.rr.com> <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> <44e13b06$0$6590$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:44:13 -0400 Message-ID: <44e1ba5c$0$6588$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> wrote in message news:cre2e2tjn8t98hq0dc65kpp7kq7ukb0ch7@4ax.com... > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:08:35 -0400, "L." wrote: > >> >> wrote in message >>news:s8c2e2hhbsq44hadrvsd3mm107dgg6g3um@4ax.com... >>> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:16:54 -0400, Al Klein >>> wrote: >>> >> >>I'm not sure where you're coming from with "these" statements............. >> >>> today theere is NO requirement for CW testing. It is not needed that I >>> know CW in order to operate at all. Indeed even if we don't stick to >>> band plans I don't need to be able read a CW signal to know it is >>> there, and reconize the frequency is in use >> >>UNTIL the Code requirement is abolished for good - > the is no need or proper reason if you prefer that wording > http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > OK, I'll buy that - but again, until the code {exam} is "ABOLISHED" - we are "required" to have it for H.F. I WILL agree, once many pass their code exams, they never see a key or listen to a code tape - again........... For what it is worth and THIS I've not kept up with - I have heard that there is a move afoot - by the FCC themselves - to abolish the code requirement. For some strange reason, September or October of this year comes to mind. I guess we'll have to wait and see. L. Article: 228245 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Brenda Ann" Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:15:13 +0900 Message-ID: References: -- Say no to institutionalized interference. Just say NO to HD/IBOC! "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message news:slrnee3d6g.dmj.gsm@cable.mendelson.com... > Brenda Ann wrote: >> Don't feel too bad, Paul. You'll often notice in the same listings that >> (even if they ship solely by USPS) they will not ship to US military >> APO/FPO >> addresses, either. We get left out in the cold even more often than any >> of >> the above named locations. So much for supporting the troops as it >> were.-- > > That's because shipping to an an APO/FPO is no longer a service provided > by the U.S. government. At one time mail to an APO/FPO was delivered to > a U.S. millitary post office that then shipped it using U.S. milltary > transport, There was a good chance that the mail would actually arrive > and it would be undamaged. Now APO/FPO mail is sent via the regular > postal system, but the U.S. government picks up the tab. > > Now, the chance of the mail arriving is much less as it stands out. Been here six years, and have NEVER had anything shipped to me USPS that hasn't gotten here, and if it was properly packed, it has always gotten here in one piece. I pay for Priority Mail shipping, which now is only a dollar or two more than Parcel, and I get it here in a week to 10 days. And actually, the USPS takes our mail as far as San Francisco via regular channels, and from there it's shipped commercial air (just like any other air mail) to our local APO hub, and then to the mail rooms. Article: 228246 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <5pf3e2dndh5hd5i8vom7nd6nroicmbf2kh@4ax.com> References: <4fspd2p7qecou8mmsf5tipdh59nfo5l2qs@4ax.com> <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155433505.131116.226510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155434298.409922.126140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:33:58 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:44:51 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:41:34 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>Or typed something that was beyond your comprehension - a double >>negative. >which is gramticaly incorect so you would NNOT do that Says who? Article: 228247 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <1qf3e2tu8t5lrd82arlr6eitfb6l3poo1b@4ax.com> References: <1155176286.445811.289510@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1155265525.310166.4760@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <4fspd2p7qecou8mmsf5tipdh59nfo5l2qs@4ax.com> <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155433505.131116.226510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155434298.409922.126140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155606175.469557.27070@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:35:32 -0400 On 14 Aug 2006 18:42:55 -0700, "LenAnderson@ieee.org" wrote: >From: Al Klein on Sun, Aug 13 2006 9:15 pm >Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, >rec.radio.scanner, rec.radio.swap > > >>On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: >>>hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com wrote: >>>> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? >>>ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please >> >>Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. > > Klein, you said you were an OF. Any olde-fahrt ought to KNOW that > silver-mica capacitors were color-dot-coded for about a quarter > century. [look in the 1976 ARRL Handbook] Those flat cases > were eventually displaced by dipped silver-mica. > > Paper tubular capacitors in molded plastic tubular casings were > marked with color bands and were on the market for at least > 15 years, maybe 20...until aced out by ceramic disc capacitors > for general bypassing and coupling applications (by both tube > and transistor architecture electronics). > > ANYONE with hands-on experience in electronics between 1950 > and about 1970 would KNOW that. [okay, folks, looks like > there's another imposter here...at least this one isn't > trying to pass hisself off as some marine NCO...:-) Try reading what I wrote. "They didn't" ... "escape". Looks like the impostor (as far as understanding simple English) isn't me. Article: 228248 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <5tf3e2h9nije4i9s5p12lrcgtsgfs7omoq@4ax.com> References: <1155402608.674317.299000@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:40:27 -0400 On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:49:43 -0400, Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:43:48 -0400, Al Klein >wrote: >>Are you telepathic? No? Then you can't know what I think. >where is your proof That you're not telepathic? I don't need any - either you aren't telepathic or you aren't on the planet legally. >without proving that I am not a telpath or simply smarter than you you >can't proove that assertion No matter how smart you are, I still know what I think better than you do You'd realize that if you were as smart as the average human adult. >Indeed I asert the claim you can't know what you think, anymore than I >can. based on science the human often decieves itself therfore you >don't know in many cases what you truly think, anymore than I know >what I truely think Solipsism is its own defeat, and that comes awfully close. >> That I don't understand isn't. >prove that assertion I made the assertion. (Figure that one out.) >you can't >>So what you think is incorrect and that's another fact. >maybe it is incorrect maybe it isn't that is the fact >you can not prove otherwise By any standard definition, the proof is by definition. >>>>>you are worng it becoming hazing when the subject of the test is >>>>>unrelated to the prevlegdes it grannts >> >>>>Nope - it's just a poor test. Hazing is something entirely different. >> >>>hazing is in the ye of the beholder >> >>No, words have actual meanings sometimes. >yes they do > >your point? You mean the one you missed? Again? >>>do you have anything cogent to say? >>Cogent in your eyes, no, since you and cogency have never met. >always the personal attack such a weak case you must have In response to a personal attack there's nothing wrong with a personal rejoinder. Article: 228249 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <65osd21lq4gps07j6atbcg9su4cfcq5sa7@4ax.com> <79m1e2h039r5a4p4l11ekso7lo6nhk1fh0@4ax.com> <6ubEg.6754$o27.4725@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:42:33 -0400 On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 03:48:18 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> Cecil Moore wrote: >> >>> Al Klein wrote: >>>> Those trying to eliminate the code requirement are the ones trying to >>>> alter history. >> >>> The past cannot be altered. Only the present, which is not >>> history, can be altered. >> >> WOW! Did you come up with that with no outside help? (I'm not >> overwhelmed - I'm not even whelmed.) > >You are the one who suggested above that it is possible >to alter the past, i.e. "alter history". Keep going, Cecil, they'll name a book of aphorisms after you eventually. Article: 228250 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <7l21e2dvu794qnmr8gfqnicusbe9epf2r4@4ax.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:45:51 -0400 On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 03:57:07 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> Cecil Moore wrote: >>> Following your line of reasoning, skill with buggy whips >>> should be part of the requirements for a driver's license. >> >> For driving a four-in-hand, it should be. There's a keyer in my >> fairly new rig. > >Get you a four-on-the-floor Mustang and beat it with a >buggy whip to make it go faster? Markie? Get out of Cecil's head. Article: 228251 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <03b2e2p1c23s6ia0s0vaddrspt6onqtsni@4ax.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:46:20 -0400 On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 03:59:46 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> Your accusation that I implied that Cecil stole his license is mine? >> Not in this universe. >Who was it who said a Conditional exam taken away >from an FCC office probably involved cheating? I don't know. You? Article: 228252 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Dick, AA5VU" Subject: Cat's Eye Tuner Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:50:00 GMT I am probably showing my age but as a kid I recall the console radios with a very cool tuning indicator called a Cat's Eye. Some things are gone forever and are missed. Too bad there is not a software version of the old cat's eye. Article: 228253 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: peewee_lloyd_davies@yahoo.com Subject: Re: id theft is crime Date: 15 Aug 2006 06:04:14 -0700 Message-ID: <1155647054.102548.311910@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> MarktheMoron@kb9rqz.com wrote: > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:34:21 -0400, "Mark Morgan" > wrote: > > id theft is crime So is your continuing to live...a crime against humanity. Article: 228254 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Buck Subject: Re: Back yard antenna lab... Message-ID: References: <1155641967.352333.137730@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:51:05 -0400 On 15 Aug 2006 04:39:27 -0700, "Denny" wrote: >Another way would be two aluminum tubes that just fit inside each other >with Teflon insulator... Sliding these in and out like a trombone will >change the tuning... I have actually done this.. Keeping the internal >spacing even is difficult and the insulator seems to want to bunch >up... Probably a pile of plates is better... I know the spacing will be wider, but can two pipes with a PVC pipe between make a usable capacitor? i.e. 1/4 od metal pipe inside 1/2 od pvc, inside 3/4 id metal pipe. (numbers are fictitious, but you get the idea.) Buck N4pgw -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW Article: 228255 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Physically short stubs, was: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> <6ZidnbhHj4zMF33ZnZ2dnUVZ8qqdnZ2d@bt.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:57:12 GMT Owen Duffy wrote: > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:04:30 GMT, Owen Duffy wrote: > > > >> PS: I think the problem you have given can be solved with simple trig: >> find the reactance of the Z02 section using one trig term, > > Z=-j50*cot(45)=-j50 > >> find the >> length of Z01 that would deliver that reactance using one trig term, > > l=acot(50/600)=85.2 > >> add that length and the actual length of Z01 section, find the > > Z01'=85.2+45=130.2 > >> reactance of the Z01 section using one trig term. I could do that in a > > X=-j600*cot(130.2)=j507.7 > >> flash with a scientific hand calculator while you were sharpening your >> pencil. >> >> It is a trivial problem either way, and can only ever be an >> approximation of a practical problem. > > But you wouldn't get that accuracy from the Smith chart. Thanks very much, Owen. I used the Smith chart to get 85, 130, and 500 above. That's about as good an accuracy as I ever need. Also MicroSmith says the impedance value is j507.2 ohms. The stub, which is 45+45 = 90 degrees physically, is electrically 130 degrees long. There is an ~80 degree shift in the Gamma angle at the 600-->50 ohm impedance discontinuity resulting in ~40 degrees being added to the electrical length of the stub by the impedance discontinuity. Let's say we now want to turn that stub into an electrical 1/4WL stub. If we made the two sections the same number of degrees, how many degrees would they occupy? | X deg | X deg | source====Z01=========Z02====open 1/4WL stub where Z01=600 ohms and Z02=50 ohms I get 16.1 degrees for X. A stub that is physically ~1/12WL long is 1/4WL resonant, i.e. a 90 degree phase shift from end to end. Does this remind anyone of a base-loaded mobile antenna? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228256 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Physically short stubs, was: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> <6ZidnbhHj4zMF33ZnZ2dnUVZ8qqdnZ2d@bt.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:21:26 GMT Jerry Martes wrote: > "Cecil Moore" wrote in message >> Yet in our above example >> the stub is physically 90 degrees long and the source sees >> +j500 ohms. The above stub is electrically 130 degrees long. > > I'd disagree with a conclusion that, just because the impedance seen by > the source is 500 ohms, the line connecting it to a load is 90 degrees > long. Well, it is physically 90 degrees long because the two physical pieces are physically 45 degrees each. That's a given. However, the +j500 result tells us that it is electrically 130 degrees removed from the open circuit at the far end. >> There is a 45 degree delay through the Z01 section of stub. >> There is a 45 degree delay through the Z02 section of stub. >> There is a 40 degree phase shift at the Z01 to Z02 junction > > If I disagree, do I have to get involved with some lengthy mathmatical > discussion? I'm not skilled enough to argue with you Cecil. I'm not even > smart. But, I sure dont see how anyone can conclude there is a phase shift > at the junction of two transmission lines. There is an abrupt change in the Gamma angle of the reflection coefficient at the impedance discontinuity. I can show you why on a phasor graphic. Simplified, it goes something like this. Itotal = 21.5*sin(25) = 10*sin(65) where 21.5 is the phasor amplitude of the current in the 50 ohm section at the junction and 10 is the phasor amplitude of the current in the 600 ohm section at the junction. The values must be the same even though the magnitude of Z0, which controls the amplitude of the current, has changed. If those values must be equal and the amplitude changes because the Z0 changed, the only other thing that can change is the phase angle. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228257 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 15 Aug 2006 07:23:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1155651829.957563.201730@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <7j8t6.7pu.19.1@news.alt.net> L. wrote: > wrote in message > news:cre2e2tjn8t98hq0dc65kpp7kq7ukb0ch7@4ax.com... > > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:08:35 -0400, "L." wrote: > > > >> > >> wrote in message > >>news:s8c2e2hhbsq44hadrvsd3mm107dgg6g3um@4ax.com... > >>> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:16:54 -0400, Al Klein > >>> wrote: > >>> > >> > >>I'm not sure where you're coming from with "these" statements............. > >> > >>> today theere is NO requirement for CW testing. It is not needed that I > >>> know CW in order to operate at all. Indeed even if we don't stick to > >>> band plans I don't need to be able read a CW signal to know it is > >>> there, and reconize the frequency is in use > >> > >>UNTIL the Code requirement is abolished for good - > > the is no need or proper reason if you prefer that wording > > http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ > > > > -- > > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > > > > OK, I'll buy that - but again, until the code {exam} is "ABOLISHED" - we are > "required" to have it for H.F. I WILL agree, once many pass their code > exams, they never see a key or listen to a code tape - again........... > > For what it is worth and THIS I've not kept up with - I have heard that > there is a move afoot - by the FCC themselves - to abolish the code > requirement. For some strange reason, September or October of this year > comes to mind. I guess we'll have to wait and see. indeed that is why many of are here trashing it out one last time NoCode got real montenum and organzation here t grow in to movement in part in this very forum there newpaper articles mention the same timefram and the noocders are swatting the whinners that would like to try and derail that > > L. Article: 228258 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person References: <44de150a$0$6591$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <03b2e2p1c23s6ia0s0vaddrspt6onqtsni@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:26:50 GMT Al Klein wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> Who was it who said a Conditional exam taken away >> from an FCC office probably involved cheating? > > I don't know. You? It was someone who replied to my posting about receiving a Conditional class license in the '50's. I thought it was you. If it wasn't, my apologies. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228259 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Cat's Eye Tuner References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:28:00 GMT Dick, AA5VU wrote: > I am probably showing my age but as a kid I recall the console radios > with a very cool tuning indicator called a Cat's Eye. > > Some things are gone forever and are missed. Too bad there is not a > software version of the old cat's eye. Doesn't an S-meter perform the same function? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228260 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: id theft is crime Date: 15 Aug 2006 07:29:16 -0700 Message-ID: <1155652156.490629.231870@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> peewee_lloyd_davies@yahoo.com wrote: > MarktheMoron@kb9rqz.com wrote: > > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:34:21 -0400, "Mark Morgan" > > wrote: > > > > id theft is crime > > So is your continuing to live...a crime against humanity. cease and desist your harrassment Article: 228261 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Frank Dresser" References: <12e27h5q0abe83e@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: US Scheme Could Affect Global Communications Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:43:51 GMT "Licorice" wrote in message news:12e27h5q0abe83e@corp.supernews.com... > US satellite protection scheme could affect global communications > http://www.physorg.com/news74778465.html > > A proposed US system to protect satellites from solar storms > or high-altitude nuclear detonations could cause side-effects > that lead to radio communication blackouts, according to new research. > > If activated, the "radiation belt remediation" (RBR) system > could significantly alter the upper atmosphere, seriously > disrupting high frequency (HF) radio wave transmissions and > GPS navigation around the world. > > The remediation system aims to protect hundreds of low > earth-orbiting satellites from having their onboard electronics > ruined by charged particles in unusually intense Van Allen > radiation belts "pumped up" by high-altitude nuclear explosions > or powerful solar storms. > > The approach, which is being pursued by the US Air Force > and the US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, > involves the generation of very low frequency radio waves > to flush particles from the radiation belts and dump them > into the upper atmosphere over one or several days. > [snip] >From what I've read, ideas such as this have been floating around for years. This is one of the experiments in the HAARP project. Back in the 60s, there was even a fix-it proposed for the post EMP ionosphere. They'd shoot a rocket to the upper atmosphere and explode a charge to spread millions of tiny copper wires to restore reflectivity. Frank Dresser Article: 228262 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "kd5sak" References: Subject: Re: Cat's Eye Tuner Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:54:00 GMT "Dick, AA5VU" wrote in message news:aa5vuNOSPAM-1463AB.07495915082006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com... >I am probably showing my age but as a kid I recall the console radios > with a very cool tuning indicator called a Cat's Eye. > > Some things are gone forever and are missed. Too bad there is not a > software version of the old cat's eye. I remember my grandparents having such a device on their big living room radio set. I also remember opening the back of a small table model radio when I was older (in my teens) and being surprised to find that one of the tubes used in it had a catseye on it. Guess they were using an old stock of tubes in the new radios and the catseye tuner was just an unneeded function of the tube they used. Harold KD5SAK Article: 228263 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Cat's Eye Tuner Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:55:37 -0500 Message-ID: <12e3o3bj67gte66@corp.supernews.com> References: Cecil Moore wrote: > Dick, AA5VU wrote: > >> I am probably showing my age but as a kid I recall the console radios >> with a very cool tuning indicator called a Cat's Eye. >> Some things are gone forever and are missed. Too bad there is not a >> software version of the old cat's eye. > > > Doesn't an S-meter perform the same function? Yah, but it's not as sexy... Dave N Article: 228264 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: FCC reaffirms BPL... Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:57:59 -0500 Message-ID: <12e3o7p2n9l4re4@corp.supernews.com> References: <1155235817.845564.294860@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <12dn3tkpg44hu13@corp.supernews.com> <44DCE9F4.64748FE4@no_bpl_for_me.net> <81l3e2pi2e88kb9qufbh2tuua9ba63roup@4ax.com> Jim Higgins wrote: > On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 20:35:02 GMT, carl wrote: > > >>Yes, it can't make money without large customer base. >> >>It is interesting, the head of the FCC has ZERO technical experience >>within the RF arena, however, he holds several degrees from NC Universitites, >> >>and is a lawyer. >> >>Just like the FCC comm. before him, Powell and Abernathy think BPL is >>the Nirvana for internet. >> >>Would be cheaper for the power companies to run fiber cable on or under the >>existing poles that carry the big power to the dist. stations. >> >>Then they can deply wifi or other service. Or even lease the cable to other >>providers. >> >>Once the power co. can put the bpl into their rate base they can charge >>customers >>for the hardware even if they don't use bpl. > > > And this is how BRL needs to be fought. Petition your Public Service > commission to prevent startup and operating costs of BPL from being > financed in any way by income from the sale or distribution of > electricity. That's a logical request and it's BPL's death knell. > > Unfortunately many Public Utility Commissions have decided to opt out of the argument by declaring that the problem is a Federal one. The Indiana Utility Regulatory commission is one such. Dave N Article: 228265 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net Subject: Re: Cat's Eye Tuner Message-ID: <18p3e2ld24r7och38h5j74kbkhv4r6r8o6@4ax.com> References: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:16:36 GMT On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:50:00 GMT, "Dick, AA5VU" wrote: >I am probably showing my age but as a kid I recall the console radios >with a very cool tuning indicator called a Cat's Eye. > >Some things are gone forever and are missed. Too bad there is not a >software version of the old cat's eye. I did an array of LEDs and drive it with a 3914 (voltage to led driver) to get both the linear bar (two bars that closed to the middle) and the round eye style. Trivial to do and very close. I picked blue/green leds to keep it close. Of course you can still find those tubes at swaps and from vendors that handle used and new old stock tubes (valves). Allison Article: 228266 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada From: Dave Oldridge References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:18:50 GMT "Pete" wrote in news:ebsat4$sl4$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net: > USPS Air to South Africa takes 4 days from California. Customs is > handled by them and it is extremely easy to use. Great service. > > Americocentric sellers maybe? I think so. And what happens to them is that they have to sell to a buyer who might not be willing to pay quite as much as I am. Their loss. And I've had more trouble with "ugly American" sellers than with any other kind. One ripped me off outright for over $300 for some software. The other is a non-shipper of some ham radio bits that I bought. I had less trouble buying from Greece! One thing I do tend to do is look for the same item in my own country (Canada) for the simple reason that it's a straight pay-and-get-it-in-the- mail kind of deal, whereas border costs can add to a price. -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 228267 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Allodoxaphobia Subject: Re: Back yard antenna lab... Date: 15 Aug 2006 15:19:55 GMT Message-ID: References: On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:36:27 GMT, John Ferrell wrote: > It got a bit quiet. > I have learned a lot about antennas & matching with this primitive > lash up. > > http://dixienc.us/28FtVert/28FtVertical.htm Please re-size your JPEG's. You are formatting them as 740x550, but you are forcing folks to download images that are 2048x1536 -- approx. 8 times larger than neccc. Not everyone is on fiber, cable, or DSL. (Even on caable, it was a slow load.) Thanks Jonesy -- Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux 38.24N 104.55W | @ config.com | Jonesy | OS/2 *** Killfiling google posts: Article: 228268 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom" Subject: license renewal Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:48:49 -0500 Message-ID: My license is up for renewal in November. I got a letter from an outfit in Texas wanting $7 to renew it. I thought one could renew their license for free over the internet. Article: 228269 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:50:43 -0700 Message-ID: References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> <6ZidnbhHj4zMF33ZnZ2dnUVZ8qqdnZ2d@bt.com> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:04:30 GMT, Owen Duffy wrote: >On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:58:32 GMT, Cecil Moore >wrote: > >>Reg Edwards wrote: >>> I don't know, never did know, how to use an old fashioned, mid-20th >>> century Smith Chart. >> >>Reg, I'm curious how you would solve this stub problem >I missed the significance of this problem Cecil. Hi Owen, Forgive the slur from the world of fixed sports, the significance is a cross-Atlantic, Australian tag team troll. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 228270 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Caveat Lector" References: Subject: Re: license renewal Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:52:16 -0700 See URL: http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605.html Have fun CL "Tom" wrote in message news:fKqdnSuydLl_cXzZnZ2dnUVZ_oqdnZ2d@insightbb.com... > My license is up for renewal in November. I got a letter from an outfit in > Texas wanting $7 to renew it. I thought one could renew their license for > free over the internet. > Article: 228271 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Paul Hinman Subject: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:39:34 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030604020303040409000106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I frequently see postings in the ham radio related newsgroups for items currently being offered on E-Bay. All to often I that items will be shipped only to the lower 48 states, leaving hams in Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada out of the picture. What is the problem. In Canada we are well served by FEDEX and the United States Postal Service. Amateur radio equipment crosses the border with out any problem. I realize that Hawaii and Alaska may be a bit far from the "lower 48" but the same delivery services are available even though surface transportation may be a little bit slow. In the US you also have UPS, the folks in Brown which we Canadians prefer not to use because the often make the border crossing more difficult than it needs to be and we don't like getting stuck with brokerage fees. So why the discrimination, if the buyer knows that delivery may take a little longer and is prepared to accept the fact then it becomes a non problem. If the seller is intimidated by the prospect of complicated paperwork, he needn't be. Please leave it up to the buyer to decide whether he wants to bib or not. I can not speak for shipments to Europe, Africa, India, China, or the South Pacific but for fellow Americans, or friendly northern neighbours, I think that people should be prepared to deal with us. Thanx for letting get this off my chest and I realize that I have cross posted this to four different newsgroups but I wanted to get to a broad audience. Paul -- Paul S. Hinman - VE6LDS long West 113 deg 27 min 20 sec lat North 53 deg 27 min 3 sec Maidenhead Locator DO33gk --------------030604020303040409000106 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I frequently see postings in the ham radio related newsgroups for items currently being offered on E-Bay.

All to often I that items will be shipped only to the lower 48 states, leaving hams in Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada out of the picture.  What is the problem.  In Canada we are well served by FEDEX and the United States Postal Service.  Amateur radio equipment crosses the border with out any problem.  I realize that Hawaii and Alaska may be a bit far >from the  "lower 48" but the same delivery services are available even though surface transportation may be a little bit slow.  In the US you also have UPS, the folks in Brown which we Canadians prefer not to use because the often make the border crossing more difficult than it needs to be and we don't like getting stuck with brokerage fees.

So why the discrimination, if the buyer knows that delivery may take a little longer and is prepared to accept the fact then it becomes a non problem.  If the seller is intimidated by the prospect of complicated paperwork, he needn't be.  Please leave it up to the buyer to decide whether he wants to bib or not.

I can not speak for shipments to Europe, Africa, India, China, or the South Pacific but for fellow Americans, or friendly northern neighbours, I think that people should be prepared to deal with us.

Thanx for letting get this off my chest and I realize that I have cross posted this to four different newsgroups but I wanted to get to a broad audience.

Paul
 
-- 
Paul S. Hinman - VE6LDS
long West 113 deg 27 min 20 sec
lat  North 53 deg 27 min 3 sec
Maidenhead Locator DO33gk
--------------030604020303040409000106-- Article: 228272 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: id theft is crime Message-ID: <4gs3e2tb115jgrpdpf4cerld53ulid1gbu@4ax.com> References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <1155647054.102548.311910@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155652156.490629.231870@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:11:12 -0400 On 15 Aug 2006 07:29:16 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: >cease and desist your harrassment Someone still has to learn the difference between Usenet and reality. Article: 228273 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: license renewal Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:13:00 -0500 Message-ID: <12e3skdtbo7s256@corp.supernews.com> References: Tom wrote: > My license is up for renewal in November. I got a letter from an outfit in > Texas wanting $7 to renew it. I thought one could renew their license for > free over the internet. > > You can. Dave WD9BDZ Article: 228274 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <03b2e2p1c23s6ia0s0vaddrspt6onqtsni@4ax.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:13:41 -0400 On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:26:50 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Al Klein wrote: >> Cecil Moore wrote: >>> Who was it who said a Conditional exam taken away >>> from an FCC office probably involved cheating? >> I don't know. You? >It was someone who replied to my posting about receiving >a Conditional class license in the '50's. I wouldn't even think along those lines. > I thought it was you. If it wasn't, my apologies. Accepted. Article: 228275 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> <44e13b06$0$6590$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <44e1ba5c$0$6588$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <1155651829.957563.201730@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:15:32 -0400 On 15 Aug 2006 07:23:50 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: >there newpaper articles mention the same timefram and the noocders are >swatting the whinners that would like to try and derail that Derail what, Markie? Oh, right, the change in the rules. And you accuse us of being the ones who want to change things. Article: 228276 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Ed Subject: Re: license renewal Date: 15 Aug 2006 16:39:12 GMT Message-ID: References: "Tom" wrote in news:fKqdnSuydLl_cXzZnZ2dnUVZ_oqdnZ2d@insightbb.com: > My license is up for renewal in November. I got a letter from an > outfit in Texas wanting $7 to renew it. I thought one could renew > their license for free over the internet. > > You can. Some hams find it a bit difficult to use the FCC Licensing website . In such cases, organizations like the W5YI Group can make it easier for you if you want to just pay their fee. Ed K7AAT Article: 228277 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: kennnick@gmail.com Subject: Re: Cat's Eye Tuner Date: 15 Aug 2006 10:00:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1155661236.787861.205370@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: My recollection is that it was called Magic Eye tuning. Maybe different manufacturers used different names. I recall listening to the hiss of CW in a BFO-less wooden box radio with the magic eye winking in time to the Morse. Looking back, it seemed like a kind of expensive gimmick in a day when squeezing maximum performance out of the minimum number of tubes was the norm. 73--Nick, WA5BDU Dick, AA5VU wrote: > I am probably showing my age but as a kid I recall the console radios > with a very cool tuning indicator called a Cat's Eye. > Article: 228278 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:03:06 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Cat's Eye Tuner References: Message-ID: <8YydnQ7h0OzaY3zZnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@comcast.com> Cecil Moore wrote: > Dick, AA5VU wrote: > >> I am probably showing my age but as a kid I recall the console radios >> with a very cool tuning indicator called a Cat's Eye. >> Some things are gone forever and are missed. Too bad there is not a >> software version of the old cat's eye. > > > Doesn't an S-meter perform the same function? It depends on how you define function! To tune a dial and watch that green eye close up is ... well ... nostalgic. Takes me back to 'Gooney Boxes' [the early models]. Article: 228279 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:05:03 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: license renewal References: Message-ID: <8YydnQnh0OwgY3zZnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@comcast.com> Tom wrote: > My license is up for renewal in November. I got a letter from an outfit in > Texas wanting $7 to renew it. I thought one could renew their license for > free over the internet. > > Yep! And, you can pay someone to do it for you! And, if you are an ARRL member they will also do it for you. Article: 228280 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jerry Martes" References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> <6ZidnbhHj4zMF33ZnZ2dnUVZ8qqdnZ2d@bt.com> Subject: Re: Physically short stubs, was: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:10:44 GMT "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:GLkEg.7229$%j7.18@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... > Jerry Martes wrote: >> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message >>> Yet in our above example >>> the stub is physically 90 degrees long and the source sees >>> +j500 ohms. The above stub is electrically 130 degrees long. >> >> I'd disagree with a conclusion that, just because the impedance seen by >> the source is 500 ohms, the line connecting it to a load is 90 degrees >> long. > > Well, it is physically 90 degrees long because the two > physical pieces are physically 45 degrees each. That's a > given. However, the +j500 result tells us that it is > electrically 130 degrees removed from the open circuit > at the far end. > >>> There is a 45 degree delay through the Z01 section of stub. >>> There is a 45 degree delay through the Z02 section of stub. >>> There is a 40 degree phase shift at the Z01 to Z02 junction >> >> If I disagree, do I have to get involved with some lengthy mathmatical >> discussion? I'm not skilled enough to argue with you Cecil. I'm not >> even smart. But, I sure dont see how anyone can conclude there is a >> phase shift at the junction of two transmission lines. > > There is an abrupt change in the Gamma angle of the reflection > coefficient at the impedance discontinuity. I can show you why > on a phasor graphic. Simplified, it goes something like this. > > Itotal = 21.5*sin(25) = 10*sin(65) > > where 21.5 is the phasor amplitude of the current in the 50 > ohm section at the junction and 10 is the phasor amplitude > of the current in the 600 ohm section at the junction. > > The values must be the same even though the magnitude of Z0, > which controls the amplitude of the current, has changed. > If those values must be equal and the amplitude changes because > the Z0 changed, the only other thing that can change is the > phase angle. > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Hi Cecil Thanks for pointing me toward learning about reflection coefficient. I am really surprised that there is such a large amount of phase shift at that junction. Jerry Article: 228281 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Miller Subject: Re: license renewal Message-ID: References: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:27:28 GMT On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:48:49 -0500, "Tom" wrote: >My license is up for renewal in November. I got a letter from an outfit in >Texas wanting $7 to renew it. I thought one could renew their license for >free over the internet. > What I did to renew mine: Go to the FCC website. Find the section on renewing amateur licenses. You can download form 610. What's easier, tho', just call the FCC phone number they give you, tell them you're renewing, the next day or so you will find form 610 and all instructions in your mailbox, free of charge. Fill the stuff out and send it in. The FCC may have a minor charge for renewing, I forget. If you've changed your address since getting your license, you may have to register the new address with the FCC before renewing. You can do only one thing at a time on form 610, as I recall. bob k5qwg Article: 228282 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44E208F6.49932987@shaw.ca> From: Irv Finkleman Subject: Re: license renewal References: <8YydnQnh0OwgY3zZnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@comcast.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:48:30 GMT Dave wrote: > > Tom wrote: > > > My license is up for renewal in November. I got a letter from an outfit in > > Texas wanting $7 to renew it. I thought one could renew their license for > > free over the internet. > > > > > > Yep! > > And, you can pay someone to do it for you! > > And, if you are an ARRL member they will also do it for you. Soon you'll be able to get someone to write your ticket for you, or print your own online! -- -------------------------------------- Visit my HomePage at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv/index.html Visit my Baby Sofia website at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv4/index.htm Visit my OLDTIMERS website at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv5/index.htm -------------------- Irv Finkleman, Grampa/Ex-Navy/Old Fart/Ham Radio VE6BP Calgary, Alberta, Canada Article: 228283 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44E20888.190A83CF@shaw.ca> From: Irv Finkleman Subject: Re: Cat's Eye Tuner References: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:46:40 GMT "Dick, AA5VU" wrote: > > I am probably showing my age but as a kid I recall the console radios > with a very cool tuning indicator called a Cat's Eye. > > Some things are gone forever and are missed. Too bad there is not a > software version of the old cat's eye. It was a 6E5 vacuum tube. Great indicators and they were driven by the AGC voltage. -- -------------------------------------- Visit my HomePage at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv/index.html Visit my Baby Sofia website at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv4/index.htm Visit my OLDTIMERS website at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv5/index.htm -------------------- Irv Finkleman, Grampa/Ex-Navy/Old Fart/Ham Radio VE6BP Calgary, Alberta, Canada Article: 228284 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John Ferrell Subject: Re: Cat's Eye Tuner Message-ID: References: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:54:03 GMT Been there, done that, I think I remember the tube type was a 6E5. I don't miss it at all! My idea of cool is the Ten Tec Jupiter on my desk beside my computer. It has a panel and a computer display, instant warm up no drift, more filters than I will ever need. The spectrum display is just short of magic. I don't want to go back. de W8CCW John On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:50:00 GMT, "Dick, AA5VU" wrote: >I am probably showing my age but as a kid I recall the console radios >with a very cool tuning indicator called a Cat's Eye. > >Some things are gone forever and are missed. Too bad there is not a >software version of the old cat's eye. John Ferrell W8CCW Article: 228285 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:29:40 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Cat's Eye Tuner References: <8YydnQ7h0OzaY3zZnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@comcast.com> <9lnEg.6872$o27.759@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > Dave wrote: > >> Cecil Moore wrote: >> >>> Doesn't an S-meter perform the same function? >> >> >> It depends on how you define function! >> To tune a dial and watch that green eye close up is ... well ... >> nostalgic. > > > So paint the S-meter needle and 60 dB over S9 a > phosphorescent green color? I'm sure the display > on my IC-756pro could have been programmed to > simulate a "Cat's Eye Tuner". Maybe someone should > notify ICOM that it should be a feature? :-) Cecil, did you ever own or use an original GOONEY Box? Turn the dials ... watch the green eye ... ! I don't have any meaningful tuning dials or functions on my IC-706MK IIg, IC-746 or IC-756 Pro III. Article: 228286 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:34:16 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: license renewal References: <8YydnQnh0OwgY3zZnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@comcast.com> <44E208F6.49932987@shaw.ca> Message-ID: Irv Finkleman wrote: > Dave wrote: > REDACTED > > Soon you'll be able to get someone to write your ticket for you, > or print your own online! Gee! I'd like my new callsign to begin with my initials followed by my Postal Zip Code [all 9 digits]. Imagine a CW contact that ends a CQ with ... DJS032752112! Now that would be unique. That would really be something when I'm sending my lass 9!! :-) Article: 228287 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:36:38 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: license renewal References: Message-ID: Bob Miller wrote: REDACTED > > If you've changed your address since getting your license, you may > have to register the new address with the FCC before renewing. You can > do only one thing at a time on form 610, as I recall. > > bob > k5qwg For a change of address simply go to the FCC web site, open your FRN and make the changes online in 1 minute or less depending on typing speed. Within a week the USPS will deliver an updated license for no charge. Article: 228288 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: id theft is crime Date: 15 Aug 2006 11:44:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1155667440.124473.242390@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> Al Klein wrote: > On 15 Aug 2006 07:29:16 -0700, "an old friend" > wrote: > > >cease and desist your harrassment > > Someone still has to learn the difference between Usenet and reality. indeed and that someone is you but then you hdon't seem to be in even dx contact with the real world Article: 228289 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 15 Aug 2006 11:45:35 -0700 Message-ID: <1155667535.502666.80690@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> Al Klein wrote: > On 15 Aug 2006 07:23:50 -0700, "an old friend" > wrote: > > >there newpaper articles mention the same timefram and the noocders are > >swatting the whinners that would like to try and derail that > > Derail what, Markie? Oh, right, the change in the rules. And you > accuse us of being the ones who want to change things. never said anything was wrong with change per se changing histrical facts to suit your case is wrong Al but is it what you want to change that is the problem BTW why are you such an ill manner lout that you can't address me by name Article: 228290 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 15 Aug 2006 11:45:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1155667544.260794.192080@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> Al Klein wrote: > On 15 Aug 2006 07:23:50 -0700, "an old friend" > wrote: > > >there newpaper articles mention the same timefram and the noocders are > >swatting the whinners that would like to try and derail that > > Derail what, Markie? Oh, right, the change in the rules. And you > accuse us of being the ones who want to change things. never said anything was wrong with change per se changing histrical facts to suit your case is wrong Al but is it what you want to change that is the problem BTW why are you such an ill mannered lout that you can't address me by name Article: 228291 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: k8vf_mark@centurytel.net Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada Date: 15 Aug 2006 12:10:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1155669032.050001.312410@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: > > The only possible problem is loss or damage. USPS air delivers in a few > days and for a reasonable border fee, most of which is sales tax at this The issue is cost, I believe. For some reason sellers dont want to pay the cost to the last two states, EVEN IF THE BUYER IS FRONTING THE FEES> DOnt know why. I have shipped to Hawaii several times with no issues at all other than time. I have had no problems with Canada, other than time. Sometimes it takes an inordinate amount of time . But you can accept that if BOTH parties are good communicators. > Keep in touch with your seller or buyer, dont just fail to respond. It makes them nervous, folks. Mark K8VF Michigan Article: 228292 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada From: Dave Oldridge References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:24:51 GMT gsm@mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) wrote in news:slrnee3d6g.dmj.gsm@cable.mendelson.com: > Brenda Ann wrote: >> Don't feel too bad, Paul. You'll often notice in the same listings >> that (even if they ship solely by USPS) they will not ship to US >> military APO/FPO addresses, either. We get left out in the cold even >> more often than any of the above named locations. So much for >> supporting the troops as it were.-- > > That's because shipping to an an APO/FPO is no longer a service > provided by the U.S. government. At one time mail to an APO/FPO was > delivered to a U.S. millitary post office that then shipped it using > U.S. milltary transport, There was a good chance that the mail would > actually arrive and it would be undamaged. Now APO/FPO mail is sent > via the regular postal system, but the U.S. government picks up the > tab. > > Now, the chance of the mail arriving is much less as it stands out. > > As for Paul's comments, they really don't hold any water. Small > sellers don't ship outside the continental U.S. because they don't > want the risk. > > If an item is lost, stolen, damaged, or takes a month or two to get > delivered, they can't afford to replace it, or "eat" the loss. Paul > even has more problems because Canadian customs may hold an item to > determine its value, or if it can be legally imported as long as they > wish. They can also assess the value for sales and other taxes. The only possible problem is loss or damage. USPS air delivers in a few days and for a reasonable border fee, most of which is sales tax at this end. If the customs declaration is made out properly, stating that the contents are amateur radio equipment and if the eBay auction price is stated as the value, there is rarely any problem unless the merchandise is misrepresented in the first place. There is no duty on amateur equipment entering Canada from ANYWHERE, just sales taxes. -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 228293 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Cat's Eye Tuner References: <8YydnQ7h0OzaY3zZnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@comcast.com> <9lnEg.6872$o27.759@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 19:57:00 GMT Dave wrote: > Cecil, did you ever own or use an original GOONEY Box? A GOONEY box was probably beyond the means of anyone in my home town. However, I remember a Philco AM/SW radio with a 6E5 tuning indicator. I never understood the difference between tuning while looking at the "cat's eye" and just tuning until it sounded the best. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228294 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: license renewal References: From: Glen Overby Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:00:58 -0500 Tom wrote: >My license is up for renewal in November. I got a letter from an outfit in >Texas wanting $7 to renew it. I thought one could renew their license for >free over the internet. The license renewal process is covered in the No Code Technician exam. I'm becoming an advocate of dropping paperwork-only renewals every ten years in favor of retesting every five. Glen, kc0iyt Article: 228295 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 15 Aug 2006 14:33:03 -0700 Message-ID: <1155677583.030681.221990@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> Al Klein wrote: > On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" > wrote: > > >hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > > >> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? > > >ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please > > Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. Develop "b)" a little more. Article: 228296 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 15 Aug 2006 14:41:40 -0700 Message-ID: <1155678100.159829.146220@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com wrote: > Al Klein wrote: > > On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" > > wrote: > > > > >hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > > > > >> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? > > > > >ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please > > > > Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. > > Develop "b)" a little more. he sure turning out like steve even started following to most of the ngs I like to post in nice guy Article: 228297 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gsm@mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) Subject: Re: license renewal Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:00:02 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: Glen Overby wrote: > I'm becoming an advocate of dropping paperwork-only renewals every ten years > in favor of retesting every five. I'm not. As a U.S. citizen, I am required to have a current U.S. license if I am in the U.S. I am also in the only country in the world that does not allow U.S. V.E. testing. I think they went as far as to ask the U.S. government to not permit it. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/ Article: 228298 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:25:09 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Cat's Eye Tuner References: <8YydnQ7h0OzaY3zZnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@comcast.com> <9lnEg.6872$o27.759@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > Dave wrote: > >> Cecil, did you ever own or use an original GOONEY Box? > > > A GOONEY box was probably beyond the means of anyone in > my home town. However, I remember a Philco AM/SW radio > with a 6E5 tuning indicator. I never understood the > difference between tuning while looking at the "cat's > eye" and just tuning until it sounded the best. :-) Don't we do the same thingee when we touch up our modern rigs for either max S meter or best sound? But, you are correct in your observation. Article: 228299 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Physically short stubs, was: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: <7hi4e2hq2p1vcovrlf88qiaqpve478en9e@4ax.com> References: <0vt0e21r25s3cn822uu0gp7v8spfi7v2vj@4ax.com> <6ZidnbhHj4zMF33ZnZ2dnUVZ8qqdnZ2d@bt.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:38:48 GMT On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:57:12 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >> X=-j600*cot(130.2)=j507.7 507.7? Says who? Me and two of my friends, Mr Hewlett and Mr Packard. >Thanks very much, Owen. I used the Smith chart to get 85, 130, >and 500 above. That's about as good an accuracy as I ever need. >Also MicroSmith says the impedance value is j507.2 ohms. I am surprised that Microsmith has accumulated so much error (~0.1%) after so few operations. Owen -- Article: 228300 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "w8ji@akorn.net" Subject: Re: Physically short stubs, was: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Date: 15 Aug 2006 15:35:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1155681343.859803.51000@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Cecil Moore wrote: > W8JI has theorized an even larger phase shift there at the > junction of a loading coil and the stinger of a mobile antenna. > Unfortunately, he attributes 100% of the phase shift below > the stinger to that single junction point, while ignoring > the phase shift provided by the loading coil. This thread > is my attempt at setting the technical record straight and > correcting W8JI's new old wives' tale. This discussion > started years ago on QRZ.com where both sides were wrong > and nobody was 100% technically correct, including myself. There is nothing that verifies Cecil's theory except Cecil's theory. 73 Tom Article: 228301 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Paul Hinman Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:42:35 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000201060503060402000008 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: >Brenda Ann wrote: > > >>Don't feel too bad, Paul. You'll often notice in the same listings that >>(even if they ship solely by USPS) they will not ship to US military APO/FPO >>addresses, either. We get left out in the cold even more often than any of >>the above named locations. So much for supporting the troops as it were.-- >> >> > >That's because shipping to an an APO/FPO is no longer a service provided >by the U.S. government. At one time mail to an APO/FPO was delivered to >a U.S. millitary post office that then shipped it using U.S. milltary >transport, There was a good chance that the mail would actually arrive >and it would be undamaged. Now APO/FPO mail is sent via the regular >postal system, but the U.S. government picks up the tab. > >Now, the chance of the mail arriving is much less as it stands out. > >As for Paul's comments, they really don't hold any water. Small sellers >don't ship outside the continental U.S. because they don't want the risk. > >If an item is lost, stolen, damaged, or takes a month or two to get delivered, >they can't afford to replace it, or "eat" the loss. Paul even has more problems >because Canadian customs may hold an item to determine its value, or if it >can be legally imported as long as they wish. They can also assess the >value for sales and other taxes. > >Obviously he never has had any experience clearing an item through customs. >If he had he would have praised the low fees, speedy processing and general >reliablity of the courier services. > >Considering the general quality of things sold on eBay, the sellers are >actually doing you a favor. While many of the sellers will attempt to >keep you satisfied, if you have to wait a month for something to arrive >and in Paul's case pay GST (general sales tax), import duty and customs >clearing fees, then have to send it back, he would loose a lot. > >Besides paying for shipping both ways, he would have to pay customs clearing >fees at the U.S. border and prove that the item he is sending back was >actually being returned to the U.S. as a defective purchase and not scamming >the customs people by claiming it was. > >This means that some items both of you either have to keep or pay for >and never get no matter what it costs. Where do you draw the line? >$100, $200, $500? If it costs $100 to ship a radio to you and $100 to >send it back, it does not make much sense. > > >Geoff. > > > I recently recieved three packages, one from the US via FEDEX GROUND, another from the US via USPS, and another from Canada via Canada Post. They all arrived in less than a week, and I paid no customs. There are no customs duties for ham radio equipment. Paul -- Paul S. Hinman - VE6LDS long West 113 deg 27 min 20 sec lat North 53 deg 27 min 3 sec Maidenhead Locator DO33gk --------------000201060503060402000008 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
Brenda Ann wrote:
  
Don't feel too bad, Paul. You'll often notice in the same listings that 
(even if they ship solely by USPS) they will not ship to US military APO/FPO 
addresses, either. We get left out in the cold even more often than any of 
the above named locations. So much for supporting the troops as it were.--  
    

That's because shipping to an an APO/FPO is no longer a service provided
by the U.S. government. At one time mail to an APO/FPO was delivered to
a U.S. millitary post office that then shipped it using U.S. milltary
transport, There was a good chance that the mail would actually arrive
and it would be undamaged. Now APO/FPO mail is sent via the regular
postal system, but the U.S. government picks up the tab.

Now, the chance of the mail arriving is much less as it stands out. 

As for Paul's comments, they really don't hold any water. Small sellers
don't ship outside the continental U.S. because they don't want the risk.

If an item is lost, stolen, damaged, or takes a month or two to get delivered,
they can't afford to replace it, or "eat" the loss. Paul even has more problems
because Canadian customs may hold an item to determine its value, or if it
can be legally imported as long as they wish. They can also assess the
value for sales and other taxes.

Obviously he never has had any experience clearing an item through customs.
If he had he would have praised the low fees, speedy processing and general
reliablity of the courier services. 

Considering the general quality of things sold on eBay, the sellers are
actually doing you a favor. While many of the sellers will attempt to
keep you satisfied, if you have to wait a month for something to arrive
and in Paul's case pay GST (general sales tax), import duty and customs
clearing fees, then have to send it back, he would loose a lot.

Besides paying for shipping both ways, he would have to pay customs clearing
fees at the U.S. border and prove that the item he is sending back was
actually being returned to the U.S. as a defective purchase and not scamming
the customs people by claiming it was.

This means that some items both of you either have to keep or pay for
and never get no matter what it costs. Where do you draw the line?
$100, $200, $500? If it costs $100 to ship a radio to you  and $100 to
send it back, it does not make much sense.


Geoff.
I recently recieved three packages, one from the US via FEDEX GROUND, another from the US via USPS, and another from Canada via Canada Post.   They all arrived in less than a week, and I paid no customs.  There are no customs duties for ham radio equipment.

Paul

-- 
Paul S. Hinman - VE6LDS
long West 113 deg 27 min 20 sec
lat  North 53 deg 27 min 3 sec
Maidenhead Locator DO33gk
--------------000201060503060402000008-- Article: 228302 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "lu6etj" Subject: Re: Cat's Eye Tuner Date: 15 Aug 2006 16:04:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1155683092.045695.256370@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: In thirty years perhaps we will be reading: "I am probably showing my age but as a kid I recall Ten Tec Jupiter on my desk beside my computer. It has a panel and a computer display, instant warm up no drift, more filters than I will ever need. The spectrum display was just short of magic Too bad there is not a implant version of these old rig. ... ;>)" 73's Miguel Ghezzi (LU 7ETJ) Article: 228303 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "lu6etj" Subject: Re: Cat's Eye Tuner Date: 15 Aug 2006 16:05:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1155683101.680295.115520@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: In thirty years perhaps we will be reading: "I am probably showing my age but as a kid I recall Ten Tec Jupiter on my desk beside my computer. It has a panel and a computer display, instant warm up no drift, more filters than I will ever need. The spectrum display was just short of magic Too bad there is not a implant version of these old rig. ... ;>)" 73's Miguel Ghezzi (LU 6ETJ) Article: 228304 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 15 Aug 2006 16:17:21 -0700 Message-ID: <1155683841.792127.69370@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: <44DFF0EA.8080305@fuse.net> slow code wrote: > "an old friend" wrote in > news:1155667544.260794.192080@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com: > > > > > BTW why are you such an ill mannered lout that you can't address me by > > name > > > > > > Maybe Al doesn't like to type dirty words. well mark certainly isn't one > > > Sc Article: 228305 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: cease and desist Date: 15 Aug 2006 16:19:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1155683951.275010.57500@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: slow code wrote: >> > Anyone going to visit the FCC website please leave them these ideas in > their comment box, Thanks. cease and desist in your efforts to kill off ham radio Article: 228306 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Rusty Shackleford" References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <65osd21lq4gps07j6atbcg9su4cfcq5sa7@4ax.com> <79m1e2h039r5a4p4l11ekso7lo6nhk1fh0@4ax.com> <6ubEg.6754$o27.4725@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:22:50 GMT "Al Klein" wrote in message news:f7g3e291mv3vpcnrfglkrjq20gql4apqee@4ax.com... > On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 03:48:18 GMT, Cecil Moore > wrote: > >>Al Klein wrote: >>> Cecil Moore wrote: >>> >>>> Al Klein wrote: >>>>> Those trying to eliminate the code requirement are the ones trying to >>>>> alter history. >>> >>>> The past cannot be altered. Only the present, which is not >>>> history, can be altered. >>> >>> WOW! Did you come up with that with no outside help? (I'm not >>> overwhelmed - I'm not even whelmed.) >> >>You are the one who suggested above that it is possible >>to alter the past, i.e. "alter history". > > Keep going, Cecil, they'll name a book of aphorisms after you > eventually. Aphorisms are statements of truth, however brief or terse. Do you consider truth a negative attribute? Article: 228307 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "lu6etj" Subject: Re: Antenna question about above ground term Date: 15 Aug 2006 16:23:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1155684189.275333.242240@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1155575543.996352.151110@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> The pattern changes the pattern changes like it is shown partially in your URL. More lobes as more higher fly you imaginary bird. But, too much height is already "free space" ;>) Miguel Ghezzi (LU 6ETJ) Article: 228308 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 15 Aug 2006 16:24:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1155684299.859665.219660@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: Rusty Shackleford wrote: > "Al Klein" wrote in message > news:f7g3e291mv3vpcnrfglkrjq20gql4apqee@4ax.com... > > On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 03:48:18 GMT, Cecil Moore > > wrote: > > > >>Al Klein wrote: > >>> Cecil Moore wrote: > >>> > >>>> Al Klein wrote: > >>>>> Those trying to eliminate the code requirement are the ones trying to > >>>>> alter history. > >>> > >>>> The past cannot be altered. Only the present, which is not > >>>> history, can be altered. > >>> > >>> WOW! Did you come up with that with no outside help? (I'm not > >>> overwhelmed - I'm not even whelmed.) > >> > >>You are the one who suggested above that it is possible > >>to alter the past, i.e. "alter history". > > > > Keep going, Cecil, they'll name a book of aphorisms after you > > eventually. > > Aphorisms are statements of truth, however brief or terse. Do you consider > truth a negative attribute? he certainly finds it inconveinent at times Article: 228309 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: license renewal From: Ed References: Message-ID: Date: 15 Aug 2006 23:42:59 GMT > > > Anyone going to visit the FCC website please leave them these ideas in > their comment box, Thanks. > > > 1-No more automatic renewals. Individuals must retest and pass all > elements required for their license class. > > 2-The passing score for written exams needs to be raised to 85%. > hmmmm... could something like this be applied to marriage licenses, too? :^) Article: 228310 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an_old_friend" Subject: Re: license renewal Date: 15 Aug 2006 17:05:12 -0700 Message-ID: <1155686712.879520.124170@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Ed wrote: > > > > > > Anyone going to visit the FCC website please leave them these ideas in > > their comment box, Thanks. > > > > > > 1-No more automatic renewals. Individuals must retest and pass all > > elements required for their license class. > > > > 2-The passing score for written exams needs to be raised to 85%. > > > > > > hmmmm... could something like this be applied to marriage licenses, too? only if you choose you spose poorly Article: 228311 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Joseph Fenn Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:16:31 -1000 Message-ID: References: On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, Paul Hinman wrote: > I frequently see postings in the ham radio related newsgroups for items > currently being offered on E-Bay. > > All to often I that items will be shipped only to the lower 48 states, > leaving hams in Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada out of the picture. What is the > problem. In Canada we are well served by FEDEX and the United States Postal > Service. Amateur radio equipment crosses the border with out any problem. I > realize that Hawaii and Alaska may be a bit far from the "lower 48" but the > same delivery services are available even though surface transportation may > be a little bit slow. In the US you also have UPS, the folks in Brown which > we Canadians prefer not to use because the often make the border crossing > more difficult than it needs to be and we don't like getting stuck with > brokerage fees. > > So why the discrimination, if the buyer knows that delivery may take a little > longer and is prepared to accept the fact then it becomes a non problem. If > the seller is intimidated by the prospect of complicated paperwork, he > needn't be. Please leave it up to the buyer to decide whether he wants to > bib or not. > > I can not speak for shipments to Europe, Africa, India, China, or the South > Pacific but for fellow Americans, or friendly northern neighbours, I think > that people should be prepared to deal with us. > > Thanx for letting get this off my chest and I realize that I have cross > posted this to four different newsgroups but I wanted to get to a broad > audience. > > Paul > My sentiments exactly Paul. Its ridiculous we either are part of the USA or we are'nt. Those catalogs that say "extra chipping costs to Hawaii/Pr/Alaska etc I give them the deep six. Joe Article: 228312 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Rayburn" References: Subject: Re: license renewal Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:25:52 -0400 Message-ID: Just the excuse I need to let my "CODED" extra ticket go lapse....with stupid fucking assholes like slow code only on the bands then who in their right fucking mind would want to talk to the lowlife cocksuckers? 30 wpm with ease! RAYBURN "slow code" wrote in message news:IAsEg.8314$xp2.1792@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... > Bob Miller wrote in > news:pj04e2tl6lrcfpsit7ueimv9b1ohk5hbe6@4ax.com: > >> On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:48:49 -0500, "Tom" wrote: >> >>>My license is up for renewal in November. I got a letter from an outfit >>>in Texas wanting $7 to renew it. I thought one could renew their >>>license for free over the internet. >>> >> >> What I did to renew mine: >> >> Go to the FCC website. Find the section on renewing amateur licenses. >> You can download form 610. What's easier, tho', just call the FCC >> phone number they give you, tell them you're renewing, the next day or >> so you will find form 610 and all instructions in your mailbox, free >> of charge. Fill the stuff out and send it in. >> >> The FCC may have a minor charge for renewing, I forget. >> >> If you've changed your address since getting your license, you may >> have to register the new address with the FCC before renewing. You can >> do only one thing at a time on form 610, as I recall. >> >> bob >> k5qwg > > > > > Anyone going to visit the FCC website please leave them these ideas in > their comment box, Thanks. > > > 1-No more automatic renewals. Individuals must retest and pass all > elements required for their license class. > > 2-The passing score for written exams needs to be raised to 85%. > > 3-Code elements should be 13 wpm for General, and 20 wpm for Extra. > > 4-Make the no-code license one year non-renewable. > Article: 228313 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: license renewal From: Ed References: Message-ID: Date: 16 Aug 2006 01:32:04 GMT > Just the excuse I need to let my "CODED" extra ticket go lapse....with > stupid fucking assholes like slow code only on the bands then who in > their right fucking mind would want to talk to the lowlife > cocksuckers? > You DO know that there are 360+ countries other than the US that you can talk to, don't you? . . . . Article: 228314 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John - KD5YI Subject: Re: license renewal References: Message-ID: <9IuEg.56318$zc2.53026@trnddc06> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 01:40:21 GMT Glen Overby wrote: > Tom wrote: > >>My license is up for renewal in November. I got a letter from an outfit in >>Texas wanting $7 to renew it. I thought one could renew their license for >>free over the internet. > > > The license renewal process is covered in the No Code Technician exam. > > I'm becoming an advocate of dropping paperwork-only renewals every ten years > in favor of retesting every five. > > Glen, kc0iyt Okay, but only if you must also retest for ALL other licenses -- drivers license, concealed firearms carry permit, plumber's license, SCUBA license, fishing license, hunting license, marriage license, realtor's license, etc. John Article: 228315 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Ron Walters Subject: Sommer antennas Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 01:49:04 GMT Would like to hear from Owners of the XP5xx and the XP7xx series of antennas from Sommer located in Florida. Looking at that antenna plus the SteppIR. Will go up on a 45ft Rohn Tower that now supports a TA-33 tribander by Mosley Looking for both the positive as well as negative observations. Appreciate your input Ron W4LDE Article: 228316 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an_old_friend" Subject: Re: license renewal Date: 15 Aug 2006 18:53:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1155693202.141747.161030@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: Ed wrote: > > Just the excuse I need to let my "CODED" extra ticket go lapse....with > > stupid fucking assholes like slow code only on the bands then who in > > their right fucking mind would want to talk to the lowlife > > cocksuckers? > > > > > You DO know that there are 360+ countries other than the US that you can > talk to, don't you? . . . . indeed they are the only reason to go into ham radio today not the us hams Article: 228317 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:12:09 -0500 Message-ID: <12e538b8vm4e61e@corp.supernews.com> References: <1155669032.050001.312410@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> k8vf_mark@centurytel.net wrote: > > > >>The only possible problem is loss or damage. USPS air delivers in a few >>days and for a reasonable border fee, most of which is sales tax at this > > > > The issue is cost, I believe. > > For some reason sellers dont want to pay the cost to the last two > states, EVEN IF THE BUYER IS FRONTING THE FEES> DOnt know why. > > I have shipped to Hawaii several times with no issues at all other than > time. > > I have had no problems with Canada, other than time. Sometimes it > takes an inordinate amount of time . But you can accept that if BOTH > parties are good communicators. > > Keep in touch with your seller or buyer, dont just fail to respond. It > makes them nervous, folks. > > Mark > K8VF > Michigan > Several years ago I had a pack and ship business. one of my customers had a VCR he wanted mailed to his son some where in Alaska. The post office used a contract air carrier to deliver the mail to the island where the son lived. As the package with the VCR was being off loaded >from the seaplane it was dropped overboard. It took over a month to receive payment from the USPS (he did insure the package). Dave WD9BDZ Article: 228318 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> <65osd21lq4gps07j6atbcg9su4cfcq5sa7@4ax.com> <79m1e2h039r5a4p4l11ekso7lo6nhk1fh0@4ax.com> <6ubEg.6754$o27.4725@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:18:29 -0400 On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:22:50 GMT, "Rusty Shackleford" wrote: >"Al Klein" wrote in message >news:f7g3e291mv3vpcnrfglkrjq20gql4apqee@4ax.com... >> On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 03:48:18 GMT, Cecil Moore >> wrote: >> >>>Al Klein wrote: >>>> Cecil Moore wrote: >>>> >>>>> Al Klein wrote: >>>>>> Those trying to eliminate the code requirement are the ones trying to >>>>>> alter history. >>>> >>>>> The past cannot be altered. Only the present, which is not >>>>> history, can be altered. >>>> >>>> WOW! Did you come up with that with no outside help? (I'm not >>>> overwhelmed - I'm not even whelmed.) >>> >>>You are the one who suggested above that it is possible >>>to alter the past, i.e. "alter history". >> >> Keep going, Cecil, they'll name a book of aphorisms after you >> eventually. > >Aphorisms are statements of truth, however brief or terse. Do you consider >truth a negative attribute? If you're into definitions, look up "sarcasm" (which an aphorism frequently is). But an aphorism can also be an opinion, whether true or not. Article: 228319 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 15 Aug 2006 20:31:03 -0700 Message-ID: <1155699063.389511.304600@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: <6cksd25bmlgrgii3q4g2goan6k4r9rk0j2@4ax.com> Al Klein wrote: > On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:22:50 GMT, "Rusty Shackleford" > wrote: > > >Aphorisms are statements of truth, however brief or terse. Do you consider > >truth a negative attribute? > > If you're into definitions, look up "sarcasm" (which an aphorism > frequently is). But an aphorism can also be an opinion, whether true > or not. do you accualy have anything to say on the topic or just more of your BS Article: 228320 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "ASIS" References: <43C15BA4.3F39@orcon.net.nz> <43c793c4$0$2255$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <43C80CF5.2B5C@orcon.net.nz> <43c83db7$0$17190$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <43c8eaa8$0$13318$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <44d69eec@quokka.wn.com.au> Subject: Re: Dick Smith Radio Direction Finder Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:00:43 +1000 Message-ID: <44e2983a$0$310$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au> yeah man me too i you dont mind, i need a project to keep me going thanks "me" wrote in message news:44d69eec@quokka.wn.com.au... > Kev wrote: > > Kev a tanker wanker ,,,, do tell more Kev Deck or ER ? > > >> news wrote: >> >>> yes thanks glenn. I would like a copy of the circuit. >>> >>> email james_about@hotmail.com with the info please. >>> >>> Any thing you need also. I keep a fairly extensive collection of radio >>> software and circuits. >>> >>> And gidday to Kev ....tanker wanker. private joke. >>> >>> >> >> :) >> >> >> Kev Article: 228321 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44E29966.7020907@fuse.net> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 00:04:54 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: Sommer antennas References: Ron Walters wrote: > Would like to hear from Owners of the XP5xx and the XP7xx series of > antennas from Sommer located in Florida. > > Looking at that antenna plus the SteppIR. Will go up on a 45ft Rohn > Tower that now supports a TA-33 tribander by Mosley > > Looking for both the positive as well as negative observations. > > Appreciate your input > > Ron W4LDE Can you please list a website for this product? Nothing on first try google Article: 228322 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 15 Aug 2006 21:53:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1155704024.611968.168570@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: <6gr3d21444qdt5m6mr1e1jpavltvso929p@4ax.com> an old friend wrote: > hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com wrote: > > Al Klein wrote: > > > On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" > > > wrote: > > > > > > >hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > > > > > > >> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? > > > > > > >ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please > > > > > > Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. > > > > Develop "b)" a little more. > he sure turning out like steve > > even started following to most of the ngs I like to post in nice guy Signal tracing will show it's the same transmitter. Article: 228323 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Buck Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada Message-ID: References: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 01:07:58 -0400 On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:39:34 GMT, Paul Hinman wrote: >I frequently see postings in the ham radio related newsgroups for items >currently being offered on E-Bay. > >All to often I that items will be shipped only to the lower 48 states, >leaving hams in Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada out of the picture. What is >the problem. In Canada we are well served by FEDEX and the United >States Postal Service. Amateur radio equipment crosses the border with >out any problem. I realize that Hawaii and Alaska may be a bit far from >the "lower 48" but the same delivery services are available even though >surface transportation may be a little bit slow. In the US you also >have UPS, the folks in Brown which we Canadians prefer not to use >because the often make the border crossing more difficult than it needs >to be and we don't like getting stuck with brokerage fees. > >So why the discrimination, if the buyer knows that delivery may take a >little longer and is prepared to accept the fact then it becomes a non >problem. If the seller is intimidated by the prospect of complicated >paperwork, he needn't be. Please leave it up to the buyer to decide >whether he wants to bib or not. > >I can not speak for shipments to Europe, Africa, India, China, or the >South Pacific but for fellow Americans, or friendly northern neighbours, >I think that people should be prepared to deal with us. > >Thanx for letting get this off my chest and I realize that I have cross >posted this to four different newsgroups but I wanted to get to a broad >audience. > >Paul \ As for canada, there is a problem with tracking. At least a couple of years ago, the cost of tracking a package, when possible, was horrendously high. In the case of the US mail or Fedex, it was impossible. I shipped to canada and the buyer said he didn't get it. He sent a very impolite letter the day I noticed all other items shipped that day arrived. I know he received it and later admitted that it was shipped to the wrong address, which I know better. Not being able to track makes for a risk that I was unwilling to handle at the time, so I cut out shipping to canada. As for hawaii and alaska, tracking and shipping costs were terrible to those places as well. Some items can't be shipped by air and would be shipped by ship requiring a time delay in which, again, thieves take advantage of and get their refund. The combination of eBay and Paypal creates a haven for thieves in those areas and others. They favor the buyer and it will ultimately cost the seller more in the long run. APO and FPO can't be tracked either. Tracking is a requirement for the eBay/paypal so-called protection. I was once a gi. Gi's move. Sometimes it takes a long while for the gi to receive mail that has to follow him/her. I realize that the problems are caused by the 'few', but they create a risk or null out certain protective clauses in contracts. SOme businesses can afford to go through the extra effort, wait the extra time or live with the occasional loss. A business that loses one sale in a hundred can afford the loss better than an individual who stands to lose one in the only one or two sales they make. Ebay/paypal is too protective for the buyers and not the sellers. The law is too difficult to motivate for most of the little sales that originate from ebay. Thieves know this and take advantage of this at every opportunity they can. Buck n4pgw -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW Article: 228324 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Buck Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada Message-ID: <05a5e294iqe6e9gbr13jfnkam6jnqr4tv9@4ax.com> References: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 01:10:57 -0400 >My sentiments exactly Paul. Its ridiculous we either are part of >the USA or we are'nt. Those catalogs that say "extra chipping >costs to Hawaii/Pr/Alaska etc I give them the deep six. > Joe But the costs are extra to those businesses. shipping to those states/territories are higher than cross-continent shipping. -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW Article: 228325 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Buck Subject: Re: license renewal Message-ID: References: <8YydnQnh0OwgY3zZnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@comcast.com> <44E208F6.49932987@shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 01:13:03 -0400 On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:48:30 GMT, Irv Finkleman wrote: >Soon you'll be able to get someone to write your ticket for you, >or print your own online! You can. I forget where, but you enter your data and it prints what appears to be a copy of your original fcc license. -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW Article: 228326 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Buck Subject: Re: license renewal Message-ID: References: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 01:14:19 -0400 On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:48:49 -0500, "Tom" wrote: >My license is up for renewal in November. I got a letter from an outfit in >Texas wanting $7 to renew it. I thought one could renew their license for >free over the internet. > If renewing online with the FCC is difficult for you, call their toll-free number and an assistant will walk you through it, free of charge. Buck n4pgw -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW Article: 228327 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Buck Subject: Re: license renewal Message-ID: <3ea5e2pimm47pkab5au4i79bac1e4cpq99@4ax.com> References: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 01:15:08 -0400 On 15 Aug 2006 23:42:59 GMT, Ed wrote: > >> >> >> Anyone going to visit the FCC website please leave them these ideas in >> their comment box, Thanks. >> >> >> 1-No more automatic renewals. Individuals must retest and pass all >> elements required for their license class. >> >> 2-The passing score for written exams needs to be raised to 85%. >> > > > > hmmmm... could something like this be applied to marriage licenses, too? > > > :^) > I don't know, but that would upset my ex something terrible if I renewed ours :) -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW Article: 228328 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Bruce Wilson" Subject: Antenna Support Rope Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:22:02 -0600 Message-ID: I have in my yard two 60 foot steel poles about 120 feet apart, placed there 40 years ago by a previous ham owner. The old halyards, about 3/4 inch diameter cotton-covered wire (wire core was about 1/8 inch) are long gone, and I need to find new rope to haul up my wire. I can't find anything like the old stuff. I was thinking about using wire rope, the flexible 7x19 kind, maybe stainless steel, at maybe 3/8 inch diameter. I think that will roll over the pulleys (which I think are less than 1 inch radius). Given that my longest wire will have maybe 8-10 feet of poly lines supporting each end, will wire rope present appreciably more metal at the ends than the poles themselves will? Is there a synthetic rope up to the task? Keep in mind that the rope I need will be running vertically, and when the antenna load is placed perpendicularly, the loads on the halyard will be in the several hundred- to thousand-pound load range. Of course it needs to last for decades or more in the sun. As always, if you have suggestions that haven't occurred to me I'll gladly listen to them. -- Bruce Wilson KF7K http://science.uvsc.edu/wilson Article: 228329 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 15 Aug 2006 23:21:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1155709292.489367.259930@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1155176286.445811.289510@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> From: Al Klein on Tues, Aug 15 2006 5:35 am Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, rec.radio.scanner, rec.radio.swap > wrote: >>From: Al Klein on Sun, Aug 13 2006 9:15 pm >>Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, >>rec.radio.scanner, rec.radio.swap > >>>On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: >>>>hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com wrote: >>>>> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? >>>>ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please > >>>Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. > >> Klein, you said you were an OF. Any olde-fahrt ought to KNOW that >> silver-mica capacitors were color-dot-coded for about a quarter >> century. [look in the 1976 ARRL Handbook] Those flat cases >> were eventually displaced by dipped silver-mica. > >> Paper tubular capacitors in molded plastic tubular casings were >> marked with color bands and were on the market for at least >> 15 years, maybe 20...until aced out by ceramic disc capacitors >> for general bypassing and coupling applications (by both tube >> and transistor architecture electronics). > >> ANYONE with hands-on experience in electronics between 1950 >> and about 1970 would KNOW that. [okay, folks, looks like >> there's another imposter here...at least this one isn't >> trying to pass hisself off as some marine NCO...:-) > >Try reading what I wrote. Tsk, Klein, you don't write enough to read. It's all about implications, inferences, and vague "truths" which don't establish anything. Then you get pissed off when others don't accept your "word" on things. I will ask directly: ARE you an olde-fahrt? Or long-timer? If so, HOW LONG? Try not to be too vague on this. Real truth will establish your "rep" in here. So far you don't have much of a "rep" except we all know you are a PRO-CODER. > "They didn't" ... "escape". Looks like the >impostor (as far as understanding simple English) isn't me. I can't see anyone named "They didn't" in the Google message list, nor that of "escape." Simply put, if you can't establish any bona fides for your alleged long-timerness, I'll just put you in the "imposter" list. [lots of folks from here in there...] LenAnderson@ieee.org From NSI Thu Aug 17 01:51:27 EDT 2006 Article: 228330 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "NSI" Subject: Add money to your Paypal account with OPRAH Qxo#A Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Sender: NSI Reply-To: NSI X-Priority: 3 X-Library: Indy 9.00.10 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Lines: 98 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@bellsouth.net X-Abuse-Info: Please forward a copy of all headers for proper handling X-Trace: ldjgbllpbapjglppdbdpiflmbcekedmfhojhikkbagflhcbonpikfpkmalckibklfdhojbeofbkjnaaigckeendpbbncgjaphiflhmddniifjhbmegdpkjbpiknkdfaifnnabmmpaincmalfenlmdafcpofkjjmn NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 02:26:40 EDT Organization: BellSouth Internet Group Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:52:43 -0500 Path: news.unc.edu!elk.ncren.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!News.Dal.Ca!ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.glorb.com!bigfeed2.bellsouth.net!bigfeed.bellsouth.net!bignumber.bellsouth.net!news.bellsouth.net!bignews5.bellsouth.net.POSTED!f1ea88ee!not-for-mail Xref: news0.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:228330 Read this message until the end, and you will find out how the money flows in easy !!!!. Follow the steps and it WILL work. Trust me !!!!!. It's NOT illegal and it is NOT a scam !!!!!. PROVEN ON OPRAH! Reported in the Wall Street Journal!!!! The only thing you need is : - E-MAIL ACCOUNT - PREMIER (FREE) or BUSINESS PAYPAL ACCOUNT - $6 on this account (The only investment) - 30 minutes of your time There is no limit on how much money you can recieve, and you haven't got anything to lose with this Business program. I will explain how it works !!!!!. Follow these 4 easy steps and it WILL work !!!!!. STEP 1 : SIGN UP FOR A FREE PAYPAL ACCOUNT !!!!!. Paypal is a free and safe way to pay and receive money on the Internet. Creating a account is as easy as creating a MSN account. Copy and paste the next line in your Internet browser and sign up. HTTP://WWW.PAYPAL.COM Be sure to sign up for a FREE Premier or Business account and not for a Personal account. You cannot receive CREDITCARD payments with a Personal account and we can't have that. Do we !!!!!. STEP 2 : SENT $6 TO YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT This is your only investment to receive the money with ease. With your Paypal account, send $1 to each e-mailadres listed below. !!!!! IMPORTANT !!!!! Be sure to use this SUBJECT : *PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR EMAIL LIST* when you send the money. 1) martine@pilote.net 2) dexxatol@netcourrier.com 3) armygirl8568@hotmail.com 4) comjii@starband.net 5) sinnek@bellsouth.net 6) nsi@nelasat.com STEP 3 : PUT YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS ON THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST After you have send $1 to each e-mail address, put your e-mail address on the 6th place. Remove e-mail address number 1, and move each e-mail address 1 step up the ladder. !!!!! IMPORTANT !!!!! BE SURE THAT THE E-MAIL ADDRESS YOU USE IS THE SAME AS YOU USED TO SIGN UP AT PAYPAL. Remember that this is LEGAL. You are creating a service : an e-mail servicelist. STEP 4 : UPLOAD OR COPY THIS MESSAGE TO NEWSGROUPS, FORUMS ETC AND EMAIL IT TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS! There are 32,000 newsgroups. Upload or copy this message to at least 200 newsgroups or forums etc, but ........ remember that the more your upload the more people will see your message and the MORE MONEY WILL FLOW IN. How to upload to newsgroups and forums? : After you have followed step 1,2,3 and 4, save this message (and copy so you can use it again). Use your Internet browser and Outlook Express or another newsreader and try to find FORUMS, NEWSGROUPS, BULLETIN BOARDS, DISCUSSION GROUPS, CHAT SITES and ONLINE COMMUNITIES. Use GOOGLE or use a NEWSERVER. Use every option to post this message. Download PostXpert to send 1 message to more NEWSGROUPS at the same time. !!!!! REMEMBER !!!!! The more you post this message the more MONEY WILL FLOW IN. Why does this Business program work so well !!!!!. Lets asume that from the 200 (or more) messages that you have posted, only 5 people respond, you will have your $6 back that you have invested. Those 5 people will each send at least 200 messages with your e-mailadres on number 4. That's 6 x 6 x $1 = $36. The next 25 people will also send 200 messages with your adres on number 3. That's 36 x 6 x $1 = $216. The next 216 people also send 200 messages with your name on number 2. That's 216 x 6 x $1 = $1296!. Those 1296 people again also send 200 messages with your name on number 1. That will give us a total of 1296 x 6 x $1 = $7,776. Now the last tier! 7776 x 6 x $1 = $46,656!!!!!! This is only a EXAMPLE with 6 reactions. You WILL get MORE responses than that. Remember that most newsservers will leave the posted messages on there servers for about 2 weeks. If you will post your message again, it WILL again start from the beginning. So you can repeat this over and over again. Everyday MILLIONS of people are ONLINE and reading these messages, JUST LIKE YOU RIGHT NOW. I also was sceptical in the beginning and have read a lot of these messages. I also thought that it was bullshit. Until I thought : What the hell!, only $6. What's $6 and a couple of minutes of my time to solve my money problems. !!!!! REMEMBER !!!!! Follow every step, and IT WILL WORK, TRUST ME. !!!!! !!!!! BEST WISHES AND GOOD LUCK !!!!! w)O>+;)<9UVS;F>qaGL References: Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 06:46:55 GMT "Bruce Wilson" wrote in news:KdOdnYWIjMDiNn_ZnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@comcast.com: > I have in my yard two 60 foot steel poles about 120 feet apart, placed > there 40 years ago by a previous ham owner. The old halyards, about > 3/4 inch diameter cotton-covered wire (wire core was about 1/8 inch) > are long gone, and I need to find new rope to haul up my wire. I can't > find anything like the old stuff. > > I was thinking about using wire rope, the flexible 7x19 kind, maybe > stainless steel, at maybe 3/8 inch diameter. I think that will roll > over the pulleys (which I think are less than 1 inch radius). Given > that my longest wire will have maybe 8-10 feet of poly lines > supporting each end, will wire rope present appreciably more metal at > the ends than the poles themselves will? > > Is there a synthetic rope up to the task? Keep in mind that the rope I > need will be running vertically, and when the antenna load is placed > perpendicularly, the loads on the halyard will be in the several > hundred- to thousand-pound load range. Of course it needs to last for > decades or more in the sun. > > As always, if you have suggestions that haven't occurred to me I'll > gladly listen to them. What the blazes are you planning to pull up there? A Sterba for 15 meters or something? -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 228332 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Brenda Ann" Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:36:13 +0900 Message-ID: References: <1155669032.050001.312410@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <12e538b8vm4e61e@corp.supernews.com> -- Say no to institutionalized interference. Just say NO to HD/IBOC! "David G. Nagel" wrote in message news:12e538b8vm4e61e@corp.supernews.com... > k8vf_mark@centurytel.net wrote: >> > >> >>>The only possible problem is loss or damage. USPS air delivers in a few >>>days and for a reasonable border fee, most of which is sales tax at this >> >> >> >> The issue is cost, I believe. >> >> For some reason sellers dont want to pay the cost to the last two >> states, EVEN IF THE BUYER IS FRONTING THE FEES> DOnt know why. >> >> I have shipped to Hawaii several times with no issues at all other than >> time. >> >> I have had no problems with Canada, other than time. Sometimes it >> takes an inordinate amount of time . But you can accept that if BOTH >> parties are good communicators. >> >> Keep in touch with your seller or buyer, dont just fail to respond. It >> makes them nervous, folks. >> >> Mark >> K8VF >> Michigan >> > > > Several years ago I had a pack and ship business. one of my customers had > a VCR he wanted mailed to his son some where in Alaska. The post office > used a contract air carrier to deliver the mail to the island where the > son lived. As the package with the VCR was being off loaded from the > seaplane it was dropped overboard. It took over a month to receive payment > from the USPS (he did insure the package). > Only a month? Not bad, really. USPS is notoriously slow with insurance claims (but then, aren't they all?) Article: 228333 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Rex Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 02:09:22 -0700 Message-ID: <92o5e2tmlq6u0bl2sf3td3vsjk3cl7cfkf@4ax.com> References: On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 01:07:58 -0400, Buck wrote: >As for canada, there is a problem with tracking. At least a couple of >years ago, the cost of tracking a package, when possible, was >horrendously high. In the case of the US mail or Fedex, it was >impossible. I shipped to canada and the buyer said he didn't get it. >He sent a very impolite letter the day I noticed all other items >shipped that day arrived. I know he received it and later admitted >that it was shipped to the wrong address, which I know better. > >Not being able to track makes for a risk that I was unwilling to >handle at the time, so I cut out shipping to canada. > [snip middle details] > >Ebay/paypal is too protective for the buyers and not the sellers. The >law is too difficult to motivate for most of the little sales that >originate from ebay. Thieves know this and take advantage of this at >every opportunity they can. > >Buck >n4pgw > >-- >73 for now >Buck >N4PGW Well explained. Not my issue anyway, but I never heard about all that. Article: 228334 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Paul Hinman Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada References: Message-ID: <77CEg.406517$iF6.166744@pd7tw2no> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:06:59 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010108000508090807010604 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Buck wrote: >On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:39:34 GMT, Paul Hinman >wrote: > > > >>I frequently see postings in the ham radio related newsgroups for items >>currently being offered on E-Bay. >> >>All to often I that items will be shipped only to the lower 48 states, >>leaving hams in Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada out of the picture. What is >>the problem. In Canada we are well served by FEDEX and the United >>States Postal Service. Amateur radio equipment crosses the border with >>out any problem. I realize that Hawaii and Alaska may be a bit far from >>the "lower 48" but the same delivery services are available even though >>surface transportation may be a little bit slow. In the US you also >>have UPS, the folks in Brown which we Canadians prefer not to use >>because the often make the border crossing more difficult than it needs >>to be and we don't like getting stuck with brokerage fees. >> >>So why the discrimination, if the buyer knows that delivery may take a >>little longer and is prepared to accept the fact then it becomes a non >>problem. If the seller is intimidated by the prospect of complicated >>paperwork, he needn't be. Please leave it up to the buyer to decide >>whether he wants to bib or not. >> >>I can not speak for shipments to Europe, Africa, India, China, or the >>South Pacific but for fellow Americans, or friendly northern neighbours, >>I think that people should be prepared to deal with us. >> >>Thanx for letting get this off my chest and I realize that I have cross >>posted this to four different newsgroups but I wanted to get to a broad >>audience. >> >>Paul >> >> >\ > >As for canada, there is a problem with tracking. At least a couple of >years ago, the cost of tracking a package, when possible, was >horrendously high. In the case of the US mail or Fedex, it was >impossible. I shipped to canada and the buyer said he didn't get it. >He sent a very impolite letter the day I noticed all other items >shipped that day arrived. I know he received it and later admitted >that it was shipped to the wrong address, which I know better. > >Not being able to track makes for a risk that I was unwilling to >handle at the time, so I cut out shipping to canada. > >As for hawaii and alaska, tracking and shipping costs were terrible to >those places as well. Some items can't be shipped by air and would be >shipped by ship requiring a time delay in which, again, thieves take >advantage of and get their refund. > >The combination of eBay and Paypal creates a haven for thieves in >those areas and others. They favor the buyer and it will ultimately >cost the seller more in the long run. > >APO and FPO can't be tracked either. Tracking is a requirement for >the eBay/paypal so-called protection. > >I was once a gi. Gi's move. Sometimes it takes a long while for the >gi to receive mail that has to follow him/her. > >I realize that the problems are caused by the 'few', but they create a >risk or null out certain protective clauses in contracts. SOme >businesses can afford to go through the extra effort, wait the extra >time or live with the occasional loss. A business that loses one sale >in a hundred can afford the loss better than an individual who stands >to lose one in the only one or two sales they make. > >Ebay/paypal is too protective for the buyers and not the sellers. The >law is too difficult to motivate for most of the little sales that >originate from ebay. Thieves know this and take advantage of this at >every opportunity they can. > >Buck >n4pgw > > > The tracking is not a problem, FEDEX tracking works across the borders and the USPS and Canada Post tracking systems interface with each other using the tracking number issued at the point of mailing. -- Paul S. Hinman - VE6LDS long West 113 deg 27 min 20 sec lat North 53 deg 27 min 3 sec Maidenhead Locator DO33gk --------------010108000508090807010604 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Buck wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:39:34 GMT, Paul Hinman <paul.hinman@shaw.ca>
wrote:

  
I frequently see postings in the ham radio related newsgroups for items 
currently being offered on E-Bay.

All to often I that items will be shipped only to the lower 48 states, 
leaving hams in Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada out of the picture.  What is 
the problem.  In Canada we are well served by FEDEX and the United 
States Postal Service.  Amateur radio equipment crosses the border with 
out any problem.  I realize that Hawaii and Alaska may be a bit far from 
the  "lower 48" but the same delivery services are available even though 
surface transportation may be a little bit slow.  In the US you also 
have UPS, the folks in Brown which we Canadians prefer not to use 
because the often make the border crossing more difficult than it needs 
to be and we don't like getting stuck with brokerage fees.

So why the discrimination, if the buyer knows that delivery may take a 
little longer and is prepared to accept the fact then it becomes a non 
problem.  If the seller is intimidated by the prospect of complicated 
paperwork, he needn't be.  Please leave it up to the buyer to decide 
whether he wants to bib or not.

I can not speak for shipments to Europe, Africa, India, China, or the 
South Pacific but for fellow Americans, or friendly northern neighbours, 
I think that people should be prepared to deal with us.

Thanx for letting get this off my chest and I realize that I have cross 
posted this to four different newsgroups but I wanted to get to a broad 
audience.

Paul
    
\

As for canada, there is a problem with tracking.  At least a couple of
years ago, the cost of tracking a package, when possible, was
horrendously high.  In the case of the US mail or Fedex, it was
impossible.  I shipped to canada and the buyer said he didn't get it.
He sent a very impolite letter the day I noticed all other items
shipped that day arrived.  I know he received it and later admitted
that it was shipped to the wrong address, which I know better. 

Not being able to track makes for a risk that I was unwilling to
handle at the time, so I cut out shipping to canada.

As for hawaii and alaska, tracking and shipping costs were terrible to
those places as well.  Some items can't be shipped by air and would be
shipped by ship requiring a time delay in which, again, thieves take
advantage of and get their refund.  

The combination of eBay and Paypal creates a haven for thieves in
those areas and others.  They favor the buyer and it will ultimately
cost the seller more in the long run.  

APO and FPO can't be tracked either.  Tracking is a requirement for
the eBay/paypal so-called protection.  

I was once a gi.  Gi's move.  Sometimes it takes a long while for the
gi to receive mail that has to follow him/her.

I realize that the problems are caused by the 'few', but they create a
risk or null out certain protective clauses in contracts.  SOme
businesses can afford to go through the extra effort, wait the extra
time or live with the occasional loss.  A business that loses one sale
in a hundred can afford the loss better than an individual who stands
to lose one in the only one or two sales they make.

Ebay/paypal is too protective for the buyers and not the sellers.  The
law is too difficult to motivate for most of the little sales that
originate from ebay.  Thieves know this and take advantage of this at
every opportunity they can.  

Buck
n4pgw
The tracking is not a problem, FEDEX tracking works across the borders and the USPS and Canada Post tracking systems interface with each other using the tracking number issued at the point of mailing.

-- 
Paul S. Hinman - VE6LDS
long West 113 deg 27 min 20 sec
lat  North 53 deg 27 min 3 sec
Maidenhead Locator DO33gk
--------------010108000508090807010604-- Article: 228335 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:10:18 +1000 From: Kev Subject: Re: Dick Smith Radio Direction Finder References: <43C15BA4.3F39@orcon.net.nz> <43c793c4$0$2255$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <43C80CF5.2B5C@orcon.net.nz> <43c83db7$0$17190$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <43c8eaa8$0$13318$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <44d69eec@quokka.wn.com.au> <44e2983a$0$310$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <44e2ef04$0$22361$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> ASIS wrote: > yeah man me too i you dont mind, > > i need a project to keep me going > > thanks Yeah you wish Kev Article: 228336 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:18:59 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope References: Message-ID: <9JKdnSsEXLm-Yn_ZnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@comcast.com> Ham Radio Outlet, HRO, sells a Black Nylon Antenna Rope that will do just fine. - - - Bruce Wilson wrote: > I have in my yard two 60 foot steel poles about 120 feet apart, placed there > 40 years ago by a previous ham owner. The old halyards, about 3/4 inch > diameter cotton-covered wire (wire core was about 1/8 inch) are long gone, > and I need to find new rope to haul up my wire. I can't find anything like > the old stuff. > > I was thinking about using wire rope, the flexible 7x19 kind, maybe > stainless steel, at maybe 3/8 inch diameter. I think that will roll over the > pulleys (which I think are less than 1 inch radius). Given that my longest > wire will have maybe 8-10 feet of poly lines supporting each end, will wire > rope present appreciably more metal at the ends than the poles themselves > will? > > Is there a synthetic rope up to the task? Keep in mind that the rope I need > will be running vertically, and when the antenna load is placed > perpendicularly, the loads on the halyard will be in the several hundred- to > thousand-pound load range. Of course it needs to last for decades or more in > the sun. > > As always, if you have suggestions that haven't occurred to me I'll gladly > listen to them. > Article: 228337 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:23:26 +0200 From: Codo Maier Subject: Q: Name Modelltype 4 El. Quad Tonna? Message-ID: <44e30035@news.ish.de> Hello I need the modelltype (name) from the 4 element Quad Tonna? Does any Ham know? The www.tonna.fr homepage bring no results. Greetings from Dortmund JO31SM Codo 73 Article: 228338 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope Date: 16 Aug 2006 04:29:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1155727778.922302.184050@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: I am using a couple thousand feet of the black braided dacron form DAVIS RF for some ten years now... Still looks like new...' denny Article: 228339 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: Sommer antennas Date: 16 Aug 2006 04:31:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1155727914.870637.114560@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: My vote is the STEPP IR... denny Article: 228340 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: Back yard antenna lab... Date: 16 Aug 2006 04:42:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1155728572.054006.212350@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: OK John, Well if you are sticking to the MFJ analyzer then the saran wrap will work fine as the insulator... And scrounging up metal isn't that hard.. PCB, or aluminum from a rain gutter company, even Reynolds wrap, etc.. Yup, I thought about the thickness of the glass reducing capacity, but if you have enough jars?!? Fun to think about... Someone needs to do it and post the pics... Check the yard sales.. Maybe you will be lucky and find an old AM radio with the dual gang 365 MMF variable caps... That will work like gangbusters... Back in the 60's I built more than one transmitter with those caps and a pair of 1625's... Keep us posted... cheers ... denny/k8do Article: 228341 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Not Cocksucker Lloyd" Subject: Re: id theft is crime Date: 16 Aug 2006 05:40:02 -0700 Message-ID: <1155732002.602849.123660@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> an old fraud wrote: > peewee_lloyd_davies@yahoo.com wrote: > > MarktheMoron@kb9rqz.com wrote: > > > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:34:21 -0400, "Mark Morgan" > > > wrote: > > > > > > id theft is crime > > > > So is your continuing to live...a crime against humanity. > cease and desist your harrassment Talk to any unlicensed stations, fraud? Article: 228342 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old freind" Subject: Re: id theft is crime Date: 16 Aug 2006 05:48:12 -0700 Message-ID: <1155732492.347529.228590@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> Not Cocksucker Lloyd wrote: cease and desist your harrassment Article: 228343 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: markie_morgan_rapesboys@yahoo.com Subject: Re: id theft is crime Date: 16 Aug 2006 05:49:27 -0700 Message-ID: <1155732567.701545.37420@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> an old freindless cocksucker wrote: > cease and desist your harrassment Or what? Article: 228344 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old freind" Subject: Re: id theft is crime Date: 16 Aug 2006 05:50:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1155732649.689048.244200@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> markie_morgan_rapesb...@yahoo.com wrote: cease and desist your harrassment Article: 228345 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old freind" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 16 Aug 2006 06:11:33 -0700 Message-ID: <1155733891.473439.148300@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: Al Klein wrote: > On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 03:57:07 GMT, Cecil Moore > wrote: > > >Al Klein wrote: > >> Cecil Moore wrote: > > >>> Following your line of reasoning, skill with buggy whips > >>> should be part of the requirements for a driver's license. > >> > >> For driving a four-in-hand, it should be. There's a keyer in my > >> fairly new rig. > > > >Get you a four-on-the-floor Mustang and beat it with a > >buggy whip to make it go faster? > > Markie? Get out of Cecil's head. the other standard tactic is to avoid the point and again why are you such an ill mannered lout that you can't call me Mark Article: 228346 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Howard W3CQH" References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <1155647054.102548.311910@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155652156.490629.231870@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1155732002.602849.123660@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155732492.347529.228590@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155732567.701545.37420@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: id theft is crime Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 09:43:33 -0400 Message-ID: Hey - yes- you JERKS - this filth and trash doesn't belong on this NG or anyother for that matter! wrote in message news:1155732567.701545.37420@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com... > > an old freindless cocksucker wrote: >> cease and desist your harrassment > > Or what? > Article: 228347 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "AAA RF Products" Subject: Coax Connectors, Adapters & Bulk Cable Message-ID: <_OGEg.174$TA5.146@fed1read09> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:26:14 -0700 Please visit our new website www.aaarfproducts.com Article: 228348 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Rayburn" References: Subject: Re: license renewal Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 12:35:18 -0400 Message-ID: <9adb7$44e34938$8b371664$736@ALLTEL.NET> Yea but who wants to say... "ur 59 NY.....73 sk " And leave it at that? Thats not talking to anyone! Rayburn "Ed" wrote in message news:Xns9820BCBAB228Espectrumhogstarbandn@198.186.192.196... > > >> Just the excuse I need to let my "CODED" extra ticket go lapse....with >> stupid fucking assholes like slow code only on the bands then who in >> their right fucking mind would want to talk to the lowlife >> cocksuckers? >> > > > You DO know that there are 360+ countries other than the US that you can > talk to, don't you? . . . . > > > Article: 228349 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Coax Connectors, Adapters & Bulk Cable From: Larry References: <_OGEg.174$TA5.146@fed1read09> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 12:46:30 -0400 "AAA RF Products" wrote in news:_OGEg.174$TA5.146@fed1read09: > Path: > be01!atl-c01.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!atl-c05.usenetserve > r.com!news.usenetserver.com!green.octanews.net!news-out.octanews.net!co > x.net!news-xfer.cox.net!p01!fed1read09.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail > From: "AAA RF Products" > Newsgroups: > misc.industry.electronics.marketplace,rec.boats.electronics,rec.radio.a > mateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors Subject: Coax Connectors, > Adapters & Bulk Cable Lines: 3 > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 > X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original > Message-ID: <_OGEg.174$TA5.146@fed1read09> > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:26:14 -0700 > NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.58.167.76 > X-Complaints-To: abuse@cox.net > X-Trace: fed1read09 1155742010 64.58.167.76 (Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:26:50 > EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:26:50 EDT > Organization: Cox Communications > Xref: usenetserver.com misc.industry.electronics.marketplace:127005 > rec.boats.electronics:161504 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:330799 > rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors:215833 X-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 > 11:26:52 EDT (be01) > > Please visit our new website www.aaarfproducts.com > > No, please visit OUR website! X-Complaints-To: abuse@cox.net Usenet isn't your free advertising service.... Read your Cox AUP (acceptable use policy) -- There's amazing intelligence in the Universe. You can tell because none of them ever called Earth. Article: 228350 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Antonio Vernucci" References: <8YydnQ7h0OzaY3zZnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@comcast.com> <9lnEg.6872$o27.759@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: Cat's Eye Tuner Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:28:05 +0200 Message-ID: <44e355a5$0$30237$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it> > > A GOONEY box was probably beyond the means of anyone in > > my home town. However, I remember a Philco AM/SW radio > > with a 6E5 tuning indicator. In the Gooney box the cat eye appearance was given by a properly shaped = metal screen hidding the upper half of a magic eye tube (e.g. 6E5). Well, the 6E5 is nice (I have several radios using it) but not as much = as the European EM4. Similar in appearance, it has two opposite = triangular dark areas (instead of just one). When tuning a station, just = when one of the two triangles has got fully lit, the second triangle = begins to narrow down. In a way, it is similar to a bandspread tuning = system. The synchronization between the two triangles is remarkable. But = I am sure there also are US-made tubes doing the same thing. 73 Tony I0JX Article: 228351 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: license renewal Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:30:04 -0400 Message-ID: <8gl6e2dps34ihtp2h97o1eakvsikhdog7l@4ax.com> References: <9adb7$44e34938$8b371664$736@ALLTEL.NET> On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 12:35:18 -0400, "Rayburn" wrote: >Yea but who wants to say... > > >"ur 59 NY.....73 sk " > > >And leave it at that? > >Thats not talking to anyone! > >Rayburn indeed but thankfully sometimes you can tlak to people http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228352 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Penguin Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:18:15 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1155268104.444785.177310@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <8ospd2lfvgmbtpd1s6b0orl41qjudi5du5@4ax.com> <26jrd2pug4448ng9i6p69924i5jcer21a3@4ax.com> <1155402655.846630.24010@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <90ksd29a82a6ui32fpl1sshph1f9vld103@4ax.com> <1155422570.385867.308540@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <44DF4249.1080807@fuse.net> . Article: 228353 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44E36E1B.20102@fuse.net> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:12:27 -0400 From: john Subject: Re: Sommer antennas References: Ron Walters wrote: > Would like to hear from Owners of the XP5xx and the XP7xx series of > antennas from Sommer located in Florida. > > Looking at that antenna plus the SteppIR. Will go up on a 45ft Rohn > Tower that now supports a TA-33 tribander by Mosley > > Looking for both the positive as well as negative observations. > > Appreciate your input > > Ron W4LDE Is Sommer out of business? I found sommerantennas.com listed in several locations but website is not up. Article: 228354 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: peewee_lloyd_davies@yahoo.com Subject: Re: id theft is crime Date: 16 Aug 2006 12:17:58 -0700 Message-ID: <1155755878.737265.55800@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> an old freindless cocksucker wrote: > cease and desist your harrassment Cease breathing. Article: 228355 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope From: Ed References: Message-ID: Date: 16 Aug 2006 19:26:31 GMT For antenna wire, cables, and ropes, I usually start with Radioworks. You'll find an excellent selection of antenna lines and ropes for whatever application you want at: http://radioworks.com/PDFCat05/70-71.pdf Ed K7AAT Article: 228356 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: id theft is crime Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:53:53 -0400 Message-ID: References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <1155647054.102548.311910@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155652156.490629.231870@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1155732002.602849.123660@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155732492.347529.228590@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155732567.701545.37420@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1155732649.689048.244200@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155755878.737265.55800@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> On 16 Aug 2006 12:17:58 -0700, peewee_lloyd_davies@yahoo.com wrote: cease and desist your harrassment http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228357 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Steve" References: <43C15BA4.3F39@orcon.net.nz> <43c793c4$0$2255$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <43C80CF5.2B5C@orcon.net.nz> <43c83db7$0$17190$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <43c8eaa8$0$13318$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <44d69eec@quokka.wn.com.au> <44d6d365$0$11970$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> Subject: Re: Radio Direction Finder Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 05:54:31 +1000 Message-ID: <44e377f9$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au> "brizzy bastard" wrote in message news:44d6d365$0$11970$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... > A cheap tracking device can be purchased through one of the following pages. > http://tech-software.net/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page& > PAGE_id=5&MMN_position=7:7 > http://www.silcom.com/~pelican2/PicoDopp/PICODOPP.htm > I really don't think tracking devices have to be expensive but if you don't > like paying for a good one, then I can provide a very simple 555ic timer > circuit you can use that will cost about $10 to make. > Here is the circuit of a very simple but workable tracking device that I > once used to track a signal to tandy's store in the toowong towers in > Brisbane. Once you learn how to use it, you can track to a square metre. A > hand held radio is the best choice of radio to use with the tracker. This > shop blocked ch 7 for 3 days until I had some free time to go and see where > it was coming from. The same shop did it again some time later and the > culprit lost his job at that location thanks to a night time worker that was > on the ball. The signal was a radio on the shelf connected to power with a > small antenna and a clip lead over the mic insert to hold it on tx. > http://www.k1ttt.net/technote/doppler.html > http://au.geocities.com/vk4jzz/side.jpg > I've bought one of the Ramsey kits which should arrive this week. http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=DDF1 I'll let you guys know how well it works when it's assembled. Tracking to within a couple of houses is easy even without a radio that has a signal meter but the doppler will make it all that much faster. the serial ratbags and spastics in Sydney will get a fright when its up and running. Unfortunately Sydney repeaters are going through one of those phases where every sub-moron with a radio is having an obsessive compulsive episode and we have about 20 whispering retards making the repeater unusable. Hopefully within the next 4 weeks I can post an excel spreadsheet with all their info. they usually piss off when they lose their anonymity. Article: 228358 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: license renewal References: From: Glen Overby Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:30:00 -0500 slow code flamed: >Anyone going to visit the FCC website please leave them these ideas in >their comment box, Thanks. Leave them yourself. Enter your comments with dots and dashes. >3-Code elements should be 13 wpm for General, and 20 wpm for Extra. Thats too whimpy. Morse code = Ham Radio, right? Make it 20wpm for general, 30wpm for Extra. Require extras to answer 100% on ALL questions of ALL element question pools in on ONE sitting with no multiple choice. You're not "extra" if you can't do that. Stop granting type acceptance to any radio that can transmit or receive on the extra portion of the band (just like the rule for the cell phone frequencies). Extras should be building radios, not buying them. >4-Make the no-code license one year non-renewable. Eliminate the no code license, wait ten years for the hobby to die, then give 2.3ghz to WiFI, 5.7 to WiMAX and auction the rest off to the highest bidder. Looking forwards to working you on the 10ghz-and-up contest this weekend, Glen Article: 228359 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: license renewal References: <9IuEg.56318$zc2.53026@trnddc06> From: Glen Overby Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:53:59 -0500 John - KD5YI wrote: >Okay, but only if you must also retest for ALL other licenses -- drivers >license, concealed firearms carry permit, plumber's license, SCUBA license, >fishing license, hunting license, marriage license, realtor's license, etc. okay! Whats the test for a marriage license? Article: 228360 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tam/WB2TT" References: Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 16:25:28 -0400 Message-ID: "Bruce Wilson" wrote in message news:KdOdnYWIjMDiNn_ZnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@comcast.com... >I have in my yard two 60 foot steel poles about 120 feet apart, placed >there 40 years ago by a previous ham owner. The old halyards, about 3/4 >inch diameter cotton-covered wire (wire core was about 1/8 inch) are long >gone, and I need to find new rope to haul up my wire. I can't find anything >like the old stuff. > > I was thinking about using wire rope, the flexible 7x19 kind, maybe > stainless steel, at maybe 3/8 inch diameter. I think that will roll over > the pulleys (which I think are less than 1 inch radius). Given that my > longest wire will have maybe 8-10 feet of poly lines supporting each end, > will wire rope present appreciably more metal at the ends than the poles > themselves will? > > Is there a synthetic rope up to the task? Keep in mind that the rope I > need will be running vertically, and when the antenna load is placed > perpendicularly, the loads on the halyard will be in the several hundred- > to thousand-pound load range. Of course it needs to last for decades or > more in the sun. > > As always, if you have suggestions that haven't occurred to me I'll gladly > listen to them. > > -- > Bruce Wilson KF7K > http://science.uvsc.edu/wilson I am using two lengths of 3/16 th black Dacron covered rope from CableXperts, or maybe Texas Towers. It has been holding up 280 feet of 75 meter loop ( #14 wire) for at least 6 years. (It makes a 90 degree bend at 75 feet). I once used 3/8 inch Poly something rope. It rotted so badly that after 6 months I could pull it apart between my two hands. BTW, you can do a LOT worse than plastic covered clothesline; after all, it is meant for outdoor use. Tam/WB2TT Article: 228361 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Joe Bloe Subject: Caged Di-Pole Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:06:06 -0700 Message-ID: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> Hello, My attention has been caught by the abilities of a "Fat Conductor" for an antenna. I understand that this has been achieved by using what is (little known about) a Caged Di-Pole. I have seen them before in older photographs, mostly draped over an old steamship, stem to stern. The Caged Di-Pole is supposed to be very well suited for weak signal reception. I know that a Yagi can do very well in this regard, but its the art of it that I'm interested in, and as far as I can see, it's almost an lost aspect of HAM radio nowadays. Does anybody remember these things? 73's Rob Article: 228362 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "lu6etj" Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Date: 16 Aug 2006 15:06:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1155765960.348079.319310@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> Hi Joe.. The main advantage of cage dipole it is its wider bandwidth. It is a nice antenna with a great "vintage" look. Apart from this, its performance is that of a standard dipole... Best regards Miguel Ghezzi (LU 6ETJ) Article: 228363 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:11:10 -0700 Message-ID: References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:06:06 -0700, Joe Bloe wrote: > The Caged Di-Pole is supposed to be very well suited for weak signal >reception. Hi Rob, "Supposed to be" is how fairy tales end; they start with "Once upon a time." >I know that a Yagi can do very well in this regard, but >its the art of it that I'm interested in, and as far as I can see, >it's almost an lost aspect of HAM radio nowadays. > > Does anybody remember these things? More than those who can explain why, when push comes to shove. Hence your complete introduction should have read: Once upon a time the Caged Di-Pole was supposed to be very well suited for weak signal reception. The only attribute of a (uncommon) cage structure is wider bandwidth than a (common) thin wire antenna. This is not the same as bringing more sensitivity. The exertion of building one, and then erecting it probably induces a wishful sense of dream fulfillment. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 228364 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John - KD5YI Subject: Re: license renewal References: <9IuEg.56318$zc2.53026@trnddc06> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 23:00:44 GMT Glen Overby wrote: > John - KD5YI wrote: > >>Okay, but only if you must also retest for ALL other licenses -- drivers >>license, concealed firearms carry permit, plumber's license, SCUBA license, >>fishing license, hunting license, marriage license, realtor's license, etc. > > > okay! > > Whats the test for a marriage license? If you gotta ask,... Article: 228365 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <1155265525.310166.4760@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <4fspd2p7qecou8mmsf5tipdh59nfo5l2qs@4ax.com> <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155433505.131116.226510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155434298.409922.126140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155606175.469557.27070@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1qf3e2tu8t5lrd82arlr6eitfb6l3poo1b@4ax.com> <1155709292.489367.259930@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 21:15:56 -0400 On 15 Aug 2006 23:21:32 -0700, "LenAnderson@ieee.org" wrote: >From: Al Klein on Tues, Aug 15 2006 5:35 am >Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, >rec.radio.scanner, >rec.radio.swap > >> wrote: >>>From: Al Klein on Sun, Aug 13 2006 9:15 pm >>>Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, >>>rec.radio.scanner, rec.radio.swap >> >>>>On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: >>>>>hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com wrote: >>>>>> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? >>>>>ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please >> >>>>Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. >> >>> Klein, you said you were an OF. Any olde-fahrt ought to KNOW that >>> silver-mica capacitors were color-dot-coded for about a quarter >>> century. [look in the 1976 ARRL Handbook] Those flat cases >>> were eventually displaced by dipped silver-mica. >> >>> Paper tubular capacitors in molded plastic tubular casings were >>> marked with color bands and were on the market for at least >>> 15 years, maybe 20...until aced out by ceramic disc capacitors >>> for general bypassing and coupling applications (by both tube >>> and transistor architecture electronics). >> >>> ANYONE with hands-on experience in electronics between 1950 >>> and about 1970 would KNOW that. [okay, folks, looks like >>> there's another imposter here...at least this one isn't >>> trying to pass hisself off as some marine NCO...:-) >> >>Try reading what I wrote. > > Tsk, Klein, you don't write enough to read. I'm not the one who misread "capacitors didn't *ESCAPE* getting color coded" for "capacitors didn't *GET* color coded" - YOU DID! Article: 228366 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Ron Walters Subject: Re: Sommer antennas References: <44E29966.7020907@fuse.net> Message-ID: <2zPEg.1172$JO5.313@tornado.tampabay.rr.com> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:24:14 GMT jawod wrote: > Ron Walters wrote: > >> Would like to hear from Owners of the XP5xx and the XP7xx series of >> antennas from Sommer located in Florida. >> >> Looking at that antenna plus the SteppIR. Will go up on a 45ft Rohn >> Tower that now supports a TA-33 tribander by Mosley >> >> Looking for both the positive as well as negative observations. >> >> Appreciate your input >> >> Ron W4LDE > > Can you please list a website for this product? Nothing on first try google Was on the site yesterday,but tonight I am having trouble getting it to open, but I am also having trouble with lots of sites Here is the address, http://www.sommerantennas.com/ Ron Article: 228367 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 02:39:22 +0100 Message-ID: "Joe Bloe" wrote in message news:6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com... > Hello, > My attention has been caught by the abilities of a "Fat Conductor" > for an antenna. I understand that this has been achieved by using > what is (little known about) a Caged Di-Pole. I have seen them before > in older photographs, mostly draped over an old steamship, stem to > stern. > > The Caged Di-Pole is supposed to be very well suited for weak signal > reception. I know that a Yagi can do very well in this regard, but > its the art of it that I'm interested in, and as far as I can see, > it's almost an lost aspect of HAM radio nowadays. > > Does anybody remember these things? > > 73's > Rob ====================================== Rob, Photographs of a cage of wires slung between a ship's masts could have been T-antennas in the good old days of LF spark transmitters. The fat conductors increased the capacitance to ground so drawing a greater current into the antenna. For the electrical characteristics of a caged dipole at HF, download program DIPCAGE2 from website below. Yes, the only advantage of a caged dipole is a moderate increase in bandwidth. Its resonant length is slightly less than that of a thin wire. Its appearance has the disadvantage of upsetting residential associations. A few amateurs, without near neighbours, for seventy-mental reasons still swear by it! ---- Reg, G4FGQ. Article: 228368 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:14:30 -0700 Message-ID: <12e7nor3rhkm374@corp.supernews.com> References: Tam/WB2TT wrote: > . . . I once used 3/8 inch Poly something rope. It rotted so badly that > after 6 months I could pull it apart between my two hands. . . That would have been polypropylene, widely sold in hardware and DIY stores. It rots in no time if exposed to UV. Polyester holds up very well, and nylon is just about as good. (I think most of the rope sold specifically for antenna use is polyester.) I'd use black rope if I lived in an area having a lot of direct sunlight and/or one that's at at high elevation, since this improves its UV resistance, but ordinary nylon or polyester rope lasts many years at my western Oregon QTH. (Maybe the moss/algae growth helps.) I like nylon because its stretchiness acts as a shock absorber, but this would be a disadvantage for some applications. Roy Lewallen Article: 228369 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:24:54 -0400 Message-ID: <7cv7e2p3c3bud3veru2str1cri9dtboav8@4ax.com> References: <4fspd2p7qecou8mmsf5tipdh59nfo5l2qs@4ax.com> <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155433505.131116.226510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155434298.409922.126140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155606175.469557.27070@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1qf3e2tu8t5lrd82arlr6eitfb6l3poo1b@4ax.com> <1155709292.489367.259930@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 21:15:56 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On 15 Aug 2006 23:21:32 -0700, "LenAnderson@ieee.org" > wrote: > >>From: Al Klein on Tues, Aug 15 2006 5:35 am >>Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, >>rec.radio.scanner, >>rec.radio.swap >> >>> wrote: >>>>From: Al Klein on Sun, Aug 13 2006 9:15 pm >>>>Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, >>>>rec.radio.scanner, rec.radio.swap >>> >>>>>On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: >>>>>>hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com wrote: >>>>>>> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? >>>>>>ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please >>> >>>>>Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. >>> >>>> Klein, you said you were an OF. Any olde-fahrt ought to KNOW that >>>> silver-mica capacitors were color-dot-coded for about a quarter >>>> century. [look in the 1976 ARRL Handbook] Those flat cases >>>> were eventually displaced by dipped silver-mica. >>> >>>> Paper tubular capacitors in molded plastic tubular casings were >>>> marked with color bands and were on the market for at least >>>> 15 years, maybe 20...until aced out by ceramic disc capacitors >>>> for general bypassing and coupling applications (by both tube >>>> and transistor architecture electronics). >>> >>>> ANYONE with hands-on experience in electronics between 1950 >>>> and about 1970 would KNOW that. [okay, folks, looks like >>>> there's another imposter here...at least this one isn't >>>> trying to pass hisself off as some marine NCO...:-) >>> >>>Try reading what I wrote. >> >> Tsk, Klein, you don't write enough to read. > >I'm not the one who misread "capacitors didn't *ESCAPE* getting color >coded" for "capacitors didn't *GET* color coded" - YOU DID! and yet you dare to attack others for there mistakes take the lumps you earn OM or bow out http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228370 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Graywolf" References: <12e7nor3rhkm374@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope Message-ID: <8dTEg.349$yB3.76@newsfe02.lga> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:33:58 -0400 "Roy Lewallen" wrote in message news:12e7nor3rhkm374@corp.supernews.com... > That would have been polypropylene, widely sold in hardware and DIY > stores. It rots in no time if exposed to UV. Polyester holds up very > well, and nylon is just about as good. (I think most of the rope sold > specifically for antenna use is polyester.) I'd use black rope if I lived > in an area having a lot of direct sunlight and/or one that's at at high > elevation, since this improves its UV resistance, but ordinary nylon or > polyester rope lasts many years at my western Oregon QTH. (Maybe the > moss/algae growth helps.) I like nylon because its stretchiness acts as a > shock absorber, but this would be a disadvantage for some applications. > > Roy Lewallen Polyester (Dacron) rope has the higher ultraviolet resistance. Nylon, especially if formulated with UV absorbers and anti-oxidants does fairly well too. If you get acid rain in your area, Nylon will not last nearly as long. Polyethylene and polypropylene ropes are rapidly destroyed in sunlight. The mechanism that protects polyester from ultraviolet in sunlight is an interesting one. When a short wavelength photon hits the polymer in the rope, its energy has to go somewhere. Often it just heats the polymer, but sometimes it breaks the polymer chain. Polyolefin ropes (polypropylene and polyethylene) have an easily broken polymer backbone. The backbone is much stronger in polyamides (Nylon). Polyesters, however, have aromatic (benzene-like) structures in them that absorb the short wavelength UV radiation and re-emit it as longer wavelength fluorescence. In polyethylene terephthalate (PET, Dacron) this fluorescence is generally in the near infrared so it is not visible. In polyethylene naphthalate (PEN), the fluorescence is in the visible region. This polyester has better barrier properties for food use and can withstand slightly higher temperatures than the PET used in most plastic soft drink bottles and food containers. But the fluorescence is unwanted in most food applications so quenching agents are added to suppress this property. Dacron is DuPont's proprietary name for their PET. Usually rope sellers charge a premium for the name, but polyester fibers as used in ropes are manufactured by many other companies. Roy is correct about the black rope lasting longer. Carbon black added to the polyester is an excellent UV absorber. 73, Barry WA4VZQ NOornitzSPAM@tricon.net Remove the NO SPAM to reply directly. Article: 228371 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <1155325580.559152.138220@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: For the potential magloop builder... Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 06:32:27 +0100 Message-ID: wrote > I realized today doing some cursory checks on copper vs. aluminum > prices that you can nearly purchase a small TIG welder with the savings > of using aluminum instead of copper in a big magloop (think 10' square, > 2" tubing low bander). I think it even holds true if you use larger > diameter aluminum to make up for the lower conductivity of aluminum vs. > copper. > > Just a thought if you've always wanted to use aluminum in a large > magloop but went to copper because you couldn't figure out how to get > low-resistance joints in aluminum! ==================================== Dan, The difference between loss resistance of copper and aluminium at HF is unnoticeable. It is only about half of the difference between the conductivities of the two metals which is quite small anyway. It is something to do with skin effect. I once had a 12-feet diameter, 1.7" conductor diameter, aluminium magloop. It had belonged to a deceased blind amateur for several years. I used it successfully on the 160 and 80 meter bands. It was in two semi-circular halves. The halves had been bent into semi-circles by machine. Aluminium is quite a ductile material. The halves had swaged ends which fitted inside each other. Easily dismantled for transportation. I never noticed any poor electrical connections. The whole structure was lightweight. Much less than the weight had it been copper. And although it was several years old it had stood up to the English weather very well. It still looked almost new. It was supported at the top by a vertical aluminium mast which formed a T-section in conjunction with the motor-driven tuning capacitor assembly. It was rotateable by hand through more than 90 degrees between 3 equi-spaced guy ropes. There is no interaction between a diametrical vertical mast and a circular loop. There was a small 1/5th diameter, self-supporting coupling loop located at the bottom of the main loop and insulated from it. The coupling loop was fed via 50 feet of 75-ohm coax. No RF on the outside of the feedline. I never knew the sort of machine operation used to bend the semi-circular halves from straight thin-wall aluminium tubes. It had been done very accurately. I doubt it was extruded already bent. It was eventually swapped to a 3rd amateur for a bottle of port wine and may still be in use somewhere. ---- Reg, G4FGQ. Article: 228372 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Sundip Sindar" Subject: Test Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 22:44:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1155793010.480881@newsreg.cos.agilent.com> Article: 228373 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Buck Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada Message-ID: <8218e2pdv9ldrtfknv5q687ni1e5d7q1do@4ax.com> References: <77CEg.406517$iF6.166744@pd7tw2no> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:53:55 -0400 On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:06:59 GMT, Paul Hinman wrote: >> >> >> >The tracking is not a problem, FEDEX tracking works across the borders >and the USPS and Canada Post tracking systems interface with each other >using the tracking number issued at the point of mailing. Things may have changed, but when I tried to get tracking and/or proof of delivery, I couldn't get it and got ripped off. -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW Article: 228374 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Bob Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:54:18 -0500 Not that it is too relevant to your original post.... Cebik (http://www.cebik.com) talks about using multi conductor elements in wire quad design to "fatten" the conductor. He mentions that thin wire designs tend to be somewhat lossy (lower fwd gain and narrower b/w etc) and the thicker elements make up for this. Cheers Bob VK2YQA Joe Bloe wrote: > > Hello, > My attention has been caught by the abilities of a "Fat Conductor" Article: 228375 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Lee" Subject: Re: QFH Antenna and 72ohm TV Coax Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 06:44:08 GMT Hi all!. Thanks to everyone for all your help and advice....... :-) Antenna built and working well using RG58 at the moment, but as a bonus, i find the QFH works exceedingly well on 2 metres also.......comparable to a Wilson 6/2/70cm co-linear antenna... I didn`t expect it to be so broadbanded....could be useful for anyone with no space for more than one antenna - condo`s, flats etc.. Installing 72ohm coax later.. Thanks again..... Lee.....G6ZSG......... Article: 228376 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope Message-ID: References: <12e7nor3rhkm374@corp.supernews.com> <8dTEg.349$yB3.76@newsfe02.lga> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:25:28 GMT On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:33:58 -0400, "Graywolf" wrote: >Polyethylene and polypropylene ropes are rapidly destroyed in sunlight. Barry, There is a type of rope known here as Silver Rope. I understand that it is manufactured from UV stabilised polyethylene and claims resistance to sunlight. It is also claimed to be resistance to most acids and alkalis. It is a very low cost rope, white in colour, and is widely used in marine applications. I have halyards and tails of this stuff that have been in the weather for 10 years with no significant degradation (superficially or observed when the strands are opened up). Silver Rope is about half the price of Dacron rope (though only about 80% of the strength of Dacron). It takes knots well (as well as the better synthetic fibre ropes, it has a slightly greasy feel), good abrasion resistance and it is easy to splice. Owen -- Article: 228377 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Gerry" References: Subject: Re: license renewal Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 05:25:21 -0400 Message-ID: <5sidnXkHWK1mqHnZnZ2dnUVZ_rqdnZ2d@giganews.com> "Rayburn" wrote in message news:a2b40$44e27421$8b371664$17268@ALLTEL.NET... > Just the excuse I need to let my "CODED" extra ticket go lapse....with > stupid fucking assholes like slow code only on the bands then who in their > right fucking mind would want to talk to the lowlife cocksuckers? > > 30 wpm with ease! Wow... you are sooooo cool... Article: 228378 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Date: 17 Aug 2006 04:51:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1155815469.773769.125400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> Reg Edwards wrote: > > A few amateurs, without near neighbours, for seventy-mental reasons > still swear by it! > ---- > Reg, G4FGQ. Hey Reg, It was good enough for Marconi.... I wonder what the locals thought.. denny Article: 228379 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old freind" Subject: cease and desist your harrassment Date: 17 Aug 2006 07:06:47 -0700 Message-ID: <1155823607.915017.73410@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> kb9rqz_child_molester@yahoo.com wrote: > cease and desist your harrassment Article: 228380 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Walter Maxwell Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope Message-ID: References: <12e7nor3rhkm374@corp.supernews.com> <8dTEg.349$yB3.76@newsfe02.lga> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:41:37 -0400 On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:25:28 GMT, Owen Duffy wrote: >On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:33:58 -0400, "Graywolf" >wrote: > >>Polyethylene and polypropylene ropes are rapidly destroyed in sunlight. > >Barry, >The Wireman is another excellent source of antenna rope. Contact him at TheWireman.com. Walt, W2DU Article: 228381 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Denny" Subject: Re: Coax Connectors, Adapters & Bulk Cable Date: 17 Aug 2006 04:57:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1155815864.163965.268290@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <_OGEg.174$TA5.146@fed1read09> The selection of bulk cable they have appears to be a single roll of RG58C... The crimp connectors they have for coax does not include RG8, or RG213, or 9913, and on, and on... It took me about 20 seconds of looking at the website to jump away... Article: 228382 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: kb9rqz_child_molester@yahoo.com Subject: Markie your spamming is a crime Date: 17 Aug 2006 05:59:40 -0700 Message-ID: <1155819580.435966.161810@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> MarkMoron @kb9rqz.com wrote: > cease Cease spamming, retard. Article: 228383 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tam/WB2TT" References: <12e7nor3rhkm374@corp.supernews.com> <8dTEg.349$yB3.76@newsfe02.lga> Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:41:05 -0400 Message-ID: "Owen Duffy" wrote in message news:iq78e25sfh9l6kh57kjietvmjbi6ved052@4ax.com... > On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:33:58 -0400, "Graywolf" > wrote: > >>Polyethylene and polypropylene ropes are rapidly destroyed in sunlight. > > Barry, > > There is a type of rope known here as Silver Rope. I understand that > it is manufactured from UV stabilised polyethylene and claims > resistance to sunlight. It is also claimed to be resistance to most > acids and alkalis. > > It is a very low cost rope, white in colour, and is widely used in > marine applications. > > I have halyards and tails of this stuff that have been in the weather > for 10 years with no significant degradation (superficially or > observed when the strands are opened up). > > Silver Rope is about half the price of Dacron rope (though only about > 80% of the strength of Dacron). It takes knots well (as well as the > better synthetic fibre ropes, it has a slightly greasy feel), good > abrasion resistance and it is easy to splice. > > Owen > -- If you live anywhere near water, a boat shop might be a good source for rope that will withstand weather and UV. Think of all the rope on a sail boat. I haven't checked prices. Tam/WB2TT Article: 228384 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Bruce Wilson" References: <12e7nor3rhkm374@corp.supernews.com> <8dTEg.349$yB3.76@newsfe02.lga> Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:03:20 -0600 Message-ID: Excellent comparison. I'll abandon the wire rope idea and get some black Dacron or polyester. Thanks to all for your comments! -- Bruce Wilson KF7K http://science.uvsc.edu/wilson "Graywolf" wrote in message news:8dTEg.349$yB3.76@newsfe02.lga... > "Roy Lewallen" wrote in message > news:12e7nor3rhkm374@corp.supernews.com... >> That would have been polypropylene, widely sold in hardware and DIY >> stores. It rots in no time if exposed to UV. Polyester holds up very >> well, and nylon is just about as good. (I think most of the rope sold >> specifically for antenna use is polyester.) I'd use black rope if I lived >> in an area having a lot of direct sunlight and/or one that's at at high >> elevation, since this improves its UV resistance, but ordinary nylon or >> polyester rope lasts many years at my western Oregon QTH. (Maybe the >> moss/algae growth helps.) I like nylon because its stretchiness acts as a >> shock absorber, but this would be a disadvantage for some applications. >> >> Roy Lewallen > > Polyester (Dacron) rope has the higher ultraviolet resistance. Nylon, > especially if formulated with UV absorbers and anti-oxidants does fairly > well too. If you get acid rain in your area, Nylon will not last nearly > as long. > Polyethylene and polypropylene ropes are rapidly destroyed in sunlight. > > The mechanism that protects polyester from ultraviolet in sunlight is an > interesting one. When a short wavelength photon hits the polymer in the > rope, its energy has to go somewhere. Often it just heats the polymer, > but sometimes it breaks the polymer chain. Polyolefin ropes > (polypropylene and polyethylene) have an easily broken polymer backbone. > The backbone is much stronger in polyamides (Nylon). Polyesters, however, > have aromatic (benzene-like) structures in them that absorb the short > wavelength UV radiation and re-emit it as longer wavelength fluorescence. > In polyethylene terephthalate (PET, Dacron) this fluorescence is generally > in the near infrared so it is not visible. In polyethylene naphthalate > (PEN), the fluorescence is in the visible region. This polyester has > better barrier properties for food use and can withstand slightly higher > temperatures than the PET used in most plastic soft drink bottles and food > containers. But the fluorescence is unwanted in most food applications so > quenching agents are added to suppress this property. > > Dacron is DuPont's proprietary name for their PET. Usually rope sellers > charge a premium for the name, but polyester fibers as used in ropes are > manufactured by many other companies. Roy is correct about the black rope > lasting longer. Carbon black added to the polyester is an excellent UV > absorber. > > 73, Barry WA4VZQ NOornitzSPAM@tricon.net > > Remove the NO SPAM to reply directly. > Article: 228385 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:30:00 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Dumb question, I know: RE Bevarage antennas Message-ID: ARRL Antenna Book says Beverage antennas are strictly for receiving. Yet, I hear MANY hams report using one, presumably for transceiving. What gives? John AB8O (My Swiss Cheese knowledge of amateur radio is showing :) Article: 228386 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "SeeingEyeDog" Subject: Re: US Scheme Could Affect Global Communications Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:05:38 -0500 Message-ID: <12e98et4dn1d7de@corp.supernews.com> References: <12e27h5q0abe83e@corp.supernews.com> "Licorice" wrote > > A proposed US system to protect satellites from solar storms > or high-altitude nuclear detonations could cause side-effects > that lead to radio communication blackouts, according to new research. > As if a high-altitude nuclear detonation's "side-effects" would be so benign. Where do they come up with this Neo-Liberal shit? Article: 228387 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Dumb question, I know: RE Bevarage antennas Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:11:19 -0700 Message-ID: References: On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:30:00 -0400, jawod wrote: >ARRL Antenna Book says Beverage antennas are strictly for receiving. >Yet, I hear MANY hams report using one, presumably for transceiving. >What gives? Hi John, Sometimes the negatives, like loss, are offset by success in spite of them. For instance, using just one antenna even though your 100W translates into something far less and you can still be copied. This simply proves you can work a contact with milliwatts. A friend of mine held a long QSO from Seattle to Alaska on her dummy load, so a Beverage would have been seen as a high gain alternative. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 228388 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "pdrahn@coinet.com" Subject: Re: Dumb question, I know: RE Bevarage antennas Date: 17 Aug 2006 10:36:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1155836202.219813.327150@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: jawod wrote: > ARRL Antenna Book says Beverage antennas are strictly for receiving. > Yet, I hear MANY hams report using one, presumably for transceiving. > What gives? > > John > AB8O > (My Swiss Cheese knowledge of amateur radio is showing :) Also, many transcievers have connections for a receiving-only antenna. My old Kenwood TS-520S needed only a single wire change to give it this capability. I tried a Beverage for receiving a couple of years ago. Didn't notice much difference. Paul, KD7HB Article: 228389 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Miller Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope Message-ID: References: <12e7nor3rhkm374@corp.supernews.com> <8dTEg.349$yB3.76@newsfe02.lga> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:42:16 GMT On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:03:20 -0600, "Bruce Wilson" wrote: >Excellent comparison. I'll abandon the wire rope idea and get some black >Dacron or polyester. > >Thanks to all for your comments! The Wireman has uv-resistant Dacron rope. bob k5qwg Article: 228390 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: You Subject: Re: license renewal References: <9IuEg.56318$zc2.53026@trnddc06> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 19:04:01 GMT In article , Glen Overby wrote: > John - KD5YI wrote: > >Okay, but only if you must also retest for ALL other licenses -- drivers > >license, concealed firearms carry permit, plumber's license, SCUBA license, > >fishing license, hunting license, marriage license, realtor's license, etc. > > okay! > > Whats the test for a marriage license? $20US and clean Blood........ Article: 228391 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: You Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada References: <77CEg.406517$iF6.166744@pd7tw2no> <8218e2pdv9ldrtfknv5q687ni1e5d7q1do@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 19:16:12 GMT In article <8218e2pdv9ldrtfknv5q687ni1e5d7q1do@4ax.com>, Buck wrote: > On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:06:59 GMT, Paul Hinman > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> > >The tracking is not a problem, FEDEX tracking works across the borders > >and the USPS and Canada Post tracking systems interface with each other > >using the tracking number issued at the point of mailing. > > Things may have changed, but when I tried to get tracking and/or proof > of delivery, I couldn't get it and got ripped off. yea, don't believe FedEx when they say they deliver to Alaska....They only deliver to Anchortown, Fairbanks, and Juneau..... for all the bush villages and towns, FedEx gets turned over to the USPS in Anchorage for delivery, and there is NO Tracking after that...... FedEx SUCKS for Alaska delivery..... Lost a Laptop to there system, no refund, or claim was ever paid. got a letter from the Manager saying, "So Sorry for your loss, I feel your pain." I'd like to give him a bit of my pain, right in the ***........ Article: 228392 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Brian Howie Subject: Re: Q: Name Modelltype 4 El. Quad Tonna? Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 20:19:46 +0100 Message-ID: References: <44e30035@news.ish.de> In message <44e30035@news.ish.de>, Codo Maier writes >Hello > >I need the modelltype (name) from the >4 element Quad Tonna? Does any Ham know? > >The www.tonna.fr homepage bring no results. > > >Greetings from Dortmund JO31SM Http://www.f9ft.com/indexe.html No sign of a 4 element quad though 73 Brian GM4DIJ -- Brian Howie Article: 228393 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:18:44 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Moxon comments welcome Message-ID: Thanks, Richard and Paul for answers about Beverage Here's another one, if you (or anyone) wants to chime in: There are about 4 paragraphs in the Antenna Book about Moxon design. Again, in contrast, lots of chatter about it on the newsgroups and on the air: Is this a viable alternative to larger yagis and quads? Specifically, there is an Optibeam OBW10-5. It appears to have a broad front lobe. But, it also appears to have a lower visible profile, a plus for the neighbors. Is it worth consideration? John AB8O Article: 228394 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:07:16 -0400 From: jawod Subject: New antenna find and disappointment Message-ID: <242$44e4ccec$453d9423$1588@FUSE.NET> I just stumbled upon a cool approach to an "antenna-in-a-box". Titanex AKS8010 is a 3 legged tower system topped with a log period array that doubles as a capacitance hat: each of the 3 legs of the tower is a vertical. What a cool idea. I contacted their US Supplier: Array Solutions and Jay tells me that the producer is unreliable and not consumer-responsive. He dropped his supplier status with them 5 years ago and has asked Titanex to remove his address from their website several times. It's listed at 2695 Euros...not cheap, eh? Still, I think this is an intriguing approach. Here is their (Titanex's) address: http://www.titanex.de John AB8O Article: 228395 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Dumb question, I know: RE Bevarage antennas Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:23:15 -0700 Message-ID: <12e9k1nmko91604@corp.supernews.com> References: Beverage antennas are very inefficient. This is ok for an HF receiving antenna, since lowering the efficiency reduces the signal and external noise by the same amount. The antenna aids receiving by virtue of its directivity -- signals from the favored direction are enhanced compared to QRM and noise from other directions. You can of course transmit with an inefficient antenna. Some commercial antennas are quite inefficient, but usually have a desirable feature such as small size or wide bandwidth in exchange. The price you pay is a weaker signal at the other end of the circuit. Since people often run much more power than necessary to communicate, the loss in a Beverage or other low efficiency antenna for transmitting can frequently be tolerated. It is, of course, a poor choice if you intend to maximize your signal at the other end. Roy Lewallen, W7EL jawod wrote: > ARRL Antenna Book says Beverage antennas are strictly for receiving. > Yet, I hear MANY hams report using one, presumably for transceiving. > What gives? > > John > AB8O > (My Swiss Cheese knowledge of amateur radio is showing :) Article: 228396 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Philo" References: <242$44e4ccec$453d9423$1588@FUSE.NET> Subject: Re: New antenna find and disappointment Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:22:48 GMT "jawod" wrote in message news:242$44e4ccec$453d9423$1588@FUSE.NET... >I just stumbled upon a cool approach to an "antenna-in-a-box". Titanex >AKS8010 is a 3 legged tower system topped with a log period array that >doubles as a capacitance hat: each of the 3 legs of the tower is a >vertical. > > What a cool idea. > > I contacted their US Supplier: Array Solutions and Jay tells me that the > producer is unreliable and not consumer-responsive. He dropped his > supplier status with them 5 years ago and has asked Titanex to remove his > address from their website several times. > > It's listed at 2695 Euros...not cheap, eh? > > Still, I think this is an intriguing approach. > > Here is their (Titanex's) address: > http://www.titanex.de > > John > AB8O Titanex sells fine antennas. It's "first class" material. I build the DLP15: it's a jewel. Just one thing: the English they use in the building instructions stinks, so you would better know what you are doing when you assemble their stuff. They also don't know how to make pictures and the B&W photocopies (from photocopies from photocopies) are a shame considering the cost of the antennas. Kind regards, Philo PS: I know, my English stinks too, but I don't sell antennas. Article: 228397 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Moxon comments welcome Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:12:40 -0700 Message-ID: References: On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:18:44 -0400, jawod wrote: >Is it worth consideration? Hi John, I'm only vaguely familiar with the design. The English seem to like elaborate wire designs with lots of crenellations. I don't recall any consistently negative or even occasional negative comments about Moxon designs. On the other hand, they seemed to asked about more than they are the subject of user's comments. You might want to pick up a copy of "HF Antennas For All Locations," by Les Moxon, G6XN, RSGB. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 228398 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 17 Aug 2006 15:26:18 -0700 Message-ID: <1155853578.502660.314550@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1155265525.310166.4760@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> From: Al Klein on Wed, Aug 16 2006 6:15 pm >On 15 Aug 2006 23:21:32 -0700, "LenAnder...@ieee.org" > wrote: >>From: Al Klein on Tues, Aug 15 2006 5:35 am >>Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, >>rec.radio.scanner, rec.radio.swap >>> wrote: >>>>From: Al Klein on Sun, Aug 13 2006 9:15 pm >>>>>On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: >>>>>>hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com wrote: >>>>>>> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? >>>>>>ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please > >>>>>Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. > >>>> Klein, you said you were an OF. Any olde-fahrt ought to KNOW that >>>> silver-mica capacitors were color-dot-coded for about a quarter >>>> century. [look in the 1976 ARRL Handbook] Those flat cases >>>> were eventually displaced by dipped silver-mica. > >>>> Paper tubular capacitors in molded plastic tubular casings were >>>> marked with color bands and were on the market for at least >>>> 15 years, maybe 20...until aced out by ceramic disc capacitors >>>> for general bypassing and coupling applications (by both tube >>>> and transistor architecture electronics). > >>>> ANYONE with hands-on experience in electronics between 1950 >>>> and about 1970 would KNOW that. [okay, folks, looks like >>>> there's another imposter here...at least this one isn't >>>> trying to pass hisself off as some marine NCO...:-) > >>>Try reading what I wrote. > >> Tsk, Klein, you don't write enough to read. > >I'm not the one who misread "capacitors didn't *ESCAPE* getting color >coded" for "capacitors didn't *GET* color coded" - YOU DID! Nice attempt at misdirection, but a very old technique. :-) That sort of misdirection is puerile (meaning childish). If you have some bona fides on English grammar and some false idea that ALL must be literal with NO departure from such literalness, please state them. Otherwise go into auto-fornication mode since we ain't buyin that, homie. :-) Let's reprise. First you state that capacitors were never color coded. You got called on that and corrected by more than myself. Secondly, you've never admitted being wrong or corrected. Third, you try to (badly) convince others that those who corrected your statement are "wrong" or "at fault." Amazing. You make mistakes and then try to convince all that those mistakes never happened or that it is "wrong" to try to correct your mistakes! :-) Here's some more to chew on: RFCs (Radio Frequency Chokes, inductors) in axial-lead plastic tubular packages are STILL marked with color-code bands. There's a MIL SPEC on that as all "long-time design engineers" should know; such parts are even used in commercial market electronics. It's really irrelevant HOW capacitors are marked as long anyone using them can know their value and working voltage and tolerance and apply them properly. There are 7 (seven) amateur radio licensees in the USA that could answer to "Al Klein." Are you one of those? I can say without hesitation that I am NOT a licensed amateur. I am a licensed commercial-professional in radio and have been so for 50 years, beginning in military 24/7 big-time HF communications 53 1/2 years ago. I have all sorts of valid documentation on that and some in here have seen some of that. Do you have ANYTHING in the way of ID? On the Internet? Or, are you going to scribble meaningless misdirections in here, attempting to portray some personal "outrage" for being corrected? Especially about a well-known electronic component identification method which you don't seem to know yet others can verify? I'll just put you down as an IMPOSTER poster, one of those wanna-bees who might never have been anything but really, really wants to be someone. That's up to you. I don't care. I've seen your kind on the Internet, on the Bulletin Board Systems since 1984. None have anything worthwhile to contribute but all wanting to be a SOMEBODY on screens. LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 228399 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Markie your spamming is a crime - Mark, Just ignore them. From: Slow Code References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <1155647054.102548.311910@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155652156.490629.231870@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1155732002.602849.123660@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155732492.347529.228590@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155732567.701545.37420@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1155732649.689048.244200@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155755878.737265.55800@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155819580.435966.161810@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:33:04 GMT kb9rqz_child_molester@yahoo.com wrote in news:1155819580.435966.161810@ 75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: > > MarkMoron @kb9rqz.com wrote: >> cease > > Cease spamming, retard. > > Mark, Just ignore them. They only tease you because of the stupid things you say when you follow up. Just ignore them and they'll give up. Stop giving them reasons to tease you. It only makes you look more stupid. Take a break from the radio groups for a while, Maybe work on your moon bounce some more. SC Article: 228400 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44E50122.4070508@cfl.rr.com> From: Ron Walters Subject: Re: Sommer antennas References: Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 23:51:49 GMT Ron Walters wrote: > Would like to hear from Owners of the XP5xx and the XP7xx series of > antennas from Sommer located in Florida. > > Looking at that antenna plus the SteppIR. Will go up on a 45ft Rohn > Tower that now supports a TA-33 tribander by Mosley > > Looking for both the positive as well as negative observations. > > Appreciate your input > > Ron W4LDE Well I may have asked a dumb question since the Web site no longer responds, I am going to make a call and see if we still have a potential product to consider or is the only viable solution the SteppIR Ron W4LDE Article: 228401 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Joe Bloe Subject: Wow. . . Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:14:21 -0700 Message-ID: References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> Gee. . . You're sure a cheery fellow. I was mostly interested in the Historic Art of the darn thing. I well know it's majorly "Out Dated", but if one does things for the pure enjoyment of it, then I guess it's not the issue of performance, but art, which is also defined by retrieving a wonderful time from out of our past. I'm just a stupid romantic at heat. . . And I enjoy being so. Thanks for the info though. I guess some how I got the information backwards, but then again, I also see a great many views on the subject of a fat conductor. . . Me thinks the subject still isn't closed due to that simple fact that nobody really yet knows for sure. 73's Rob On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:11:10 -0700, Richard Clark wrote: >On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:06:06 -0700, Joe Bloe >wrote: > >> The Caged Di-Pole is supposed to be very well suited for weak signal >>reception. > >Hi Rob, > >"Supposed to be" is how fairy tales end; they start with "Once upon a >time." > >>I know that a Yagi can do very well in this regard, but >>its the art of it that I'm interested in, and as far as I can see, >>it's almost an lost aspect of HAM radio nowadays. >> >> Does anybody remember these things? > >More than those who can explain why, when push comes to shove. Hence >your complete introduction should have read: > Once upon a time the Caged Di-Pole was supposed to be very well > suited for weak signal reception. > >The only attribute of a (uncommon) cage structure is wider bandwidth >than a (common) thin wire antenna. This is not the same as bringing >more sensitivity. The exertion of building one, and then erecting it >probably induces a wishful sense of dream fulfillment. > >73's >Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 228402 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:20:58 -0700 Message-ID: <12ea1vejsi26564@corp.supernews.com> References: <12e7nor3rhkm374@corp.supernews.com> <8dTEg.349$yB3.76@newsfe02.lga> Tam/WB2TT wrote: > If you live anywhere near water, a boat shop might be a good source for rope > that will withstand weather and UV. Think of all the rope on a sail boat. I > haven't checked prices. Ironically, polypropylene rope, the very worst kind for UV, is often sold as water ski tow rope and for other marine applications, because it floats. So check the label carefully. A friend of mine once built an 80 meter vertical from PVC pipe, with a wire inside or outside of it. Being an analytical sort of person, he carefully calculated the wind loading, allowing for the 100+ MPH winds not uncommon in his area of Colorado. Then he selected guy rope of the required strength, with a hefty safety margin. It worked fine for about 6 months, then the antenna fell over on a day when there was only a slight breeze. Mystified, he inspected the antenna and found that he could pull the rope apart with his bare hands. That was when he, and I, learned about polypropylene rope and sunlight. Of course, his location at about a mile elevation and where the sky is clear 300 or so days per year was a particularly harsh environment for plastic as well as for fair-skinned people. I got away with using the stuff for a couple of years here in western Oregon. But there are a lot better choices. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 228403 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Joe Bloe Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:22:05 -0700 Message-ID: References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> Gee, Wow... I got a little bit of info, enough to find that what I was told wasn't quite right after all. Being that I'm a bit new to the antenna aspect of things, I don't find this surprising at all. However, I did get a two bits of good information, a closer explanation of the effect of a fat conductor antenna, and a web-site with a calculator for just such a thing. Thanks folks, this query has been a total success due to those who care. . . You all! 73's Rob Article: 228404 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:22:53 -0700 Message-ID: <12ea23179s8ki78@corp.supernews.com> References: <12e7nor3rhkm374@corp.supernews.com> <8dTEg.349$yB3.76@newsfe02.lga> Welcome back to the group, Barry. I, and I know many others, really appreciate hearing the straight story from someone who truly knows what he's talking about. Thanks! Roy Lewallen, W7EL Graywolf wrote: > > Polyester (Dacron) rope has the higher ultraviolet resistance. Nylon, > especially if formulated with UV absorbers and anti-oxidants does fairly > well too. If you get acid rain in your area, Nylon will not last nearly as > long. > Polyethylene and polypropylene ropes are rapidly destroyed in sunlight. > . . . Article: 228405 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John Ferrell Subject: Re: Moxon comments welcome Message-ID: References: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 01:01:02 GMT The ARRL Antenna modeling course includes the Moxon. I kind of visualize the elements to be analogous to top hat tuned parts of a two element Yagi. I did not receive any Moxon examples in my copy of EZNEC but I am confident it would model it OK. I don't recall the feed details. de W8CCW John On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:18:44 -0400, jawod wrote: >Thanks, Richard and Paul for answers about Beverage > >Here's another one, if you (or anyone) wants to chime in: >There are about 4 paragraphs in the Antenna Book about Moxon design. >Again, in contrast, lots of chatter about it on the newsgroups and on >the air: >Is this a viable alternative to larger yagis and quads? > >Specifically, there is an Optibeam OBW10-5. It appears to have a broad >front lobe. But, it also appears to have a lower visible profile, a >plus for the neighbors. > >Is it worth consideration? > >John >AB8O John Ferrell W8CCW Article: 228406 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 01:02:17 GMT Joe Bloe wrote: > However, I did > get a two bits of good information, a closer explanation of the effect > of a fat conductor antenna, and a web-site with a calculator for just > such a thing. You can probably arrive at the same correct technical conclusions by downloading the free demo version of EZNEC and selecting the diameter of the conductor. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228407 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:33:17 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > Joe Bloe wrote: > >> However, I did >> get a two bits of good information, a closer explanation of the effect >> of a fat conductor antenna, and a web-site with a calculator for just >> such a thing. > > > You can probably arrive at the same correct technical > conclusions by downloading the free demo version of > EZNEC and selecting the diameter of the conductor. No doubt, Cecil. Of course this wasn't where the conversation started at. I haven't tried EZNEC to model a cage antenna, will it do it? Or do you just make the wires really thick? And how does really thick wire compare to a cage of the same relative diameter? - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 228408 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: References: <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155433505.131116.226510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155434298.409922.126140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155606175.469557.27070@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1qf3e2tu8t5lrd82arlr6eitfb6l3poo1b@4ax.com> <1155709292.489367.259930@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155853578.502660.314550@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:46:22 -0400 On 17 Aug 2006 15:26:18 -0700, "LenAnderson@ieee.org" wrote: > Let's reprise. First you state that capacitors were never > color coded. No, first YOU misunderstood "didn't escape being color coded" as meaning "didn't get color coded". Then you tried to weasel out of looking like the ass you are by looking even more stupid. You're not worth my time. Article: 228409 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Al Klein Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? - Mark, Just ignore them. Message-ID: References: <1155433505.131116.226510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155434298.409922.126140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155606175.469557.27070@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1qf3e2tu8t5lrd82arlr6eitfb6l3poo1b@4ax.com> <1155709292.489367.259930@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <7cv7e2p3c3bud3veru2str1cri9dtboav8@4ax.com> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:49:05 -0400 On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:33:22 GMT, Slow Code wrote: >Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote in news:7cv7e2p3c3bud3veru2str1cri9dtboav8@4ax.com: >>>I'm not the one who misread "capacitors didn't *ESCAPE* getting color >>>coded" for "capacitors didn't *GET* color coded" - YOU DID! >> and yet you dare to attack others for there mistakes take the lumps >> you earn OM or bow out Since I have you killfiled, I didn't see the original post, Markie, and I probably won't see your reply if you post one, but dyslexia doesn't excuse you for this one. Google has my original post, so I have no need to defend what others don't understand. Yes, Murky, it's YOUR mistake ... again. Article: 228410 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Moxon comments welcome Message-ID: References: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 01:56:35 GMT On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 01:01:02 GMT, John Ferrell wrote: >I did not receive any Moxon examples in my copy of EZNEC but I am >confident it would model it OK. LB Cebik has some stuff on Moxon rectangles online. Owen -- Article: 228411 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:06:54 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1155433505.131116.226510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155434298.409922.126140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155606175.469557.27070@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1qf3e2tu8t5lrd82arlr6eitfb6l3poo1b@4ax.com> <1155709292.489367.259930@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155853578.502660.314550@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:46:22 -0400, Al Klein wrote: >On 17 Aug 2006 15:26:18 -0700, "LenAnderson@ieee.org" > wrote: > >> Let's reprise. First you state that capacitors were never >> color coded. > >No, first YOU misunderstood "didn't escape being color coded" as >meaning "didn't get color coded" more back pedaling and wod games http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228412 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 19:25:10 -0700 Message-ID: References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:33:17 -0400, Mike Coslo wrote: >how does really thick wire >compare to a cage of the same relative diameter? Hi Mike, Close, but no cigar. Actually, the degree of closeness depends on how well the cage represents the solid. That degree is a function of the number of wires that form the skeletal shape. Four is pretty lousy, 120 would be outstanding. Then there is something in the middle: http://home.comcast.net/~kb7qhc/antennas/verticals/Cage/cage.htm offers an example that may be suitable. This is a 4 meter tall antenna that tunes all frequencies from 20M through 10M. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 228413 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 17 Aug 2006 19:26:58 -0700 Message-ID: <1155868018.510672.53590@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1155265525.310166.4760@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > From: Al Klein on Wed, Aug 16 2006 6:15 pm > > >On 15 Aug 2006 23:21:32 -0700, "LenAnder...@ieee.org" > > wrote: > >>From: Al Klein on Tues, Aug 15 2006 5:35 am > >>Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, > >>rec.radio.scanner, rec.radio.swap > >>> wrote: > >>>>From: Al Klein on Sun, Aug 13 2006 9:15 pm > >>>>>On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: > >>>>>>hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com wrote: > >>>>>>> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? > >>>>>>ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please > > > >>>>>Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. > > > >>>> Klein, you said you were an OF. Any olde-fahrt ought to KNOW that > >>>> silver-mica capacitors were color-dot-coded for about a quarter > >>>> century. [look in the 1976 ARRL Handbook] Those flat cases > >>>> were eventually displaced by dipped silver-mica. > > > >>>> Paper tubular capacitors in molded plastic tubular casings were > >>>> marked with color bands and were on the market for at least > >>>> 15 years, maybe 20...until aced out by ceramic disc capacitors > >>>> for general bypassing and coupling applications (by both tube > >>>> and transistor architecture electronics). > > > >>>> ANYONE with hands-on experience in electronics between 1950 > >>>> and about 1970 would KNOW that. [okay, folks, looks like > >>>> there's another imposter here...at least this one isn't > >>>> trying to pass hisself off as some marine NCO...:-) > > > >>>Try reading what I wrote. > > > >> Tsk, Klein, you don't write enough to read. > > > >I'm not the one who misread "capacitors didn't *ESCAPE* getting color > >coded" for "capacitors didn't *GET* color coded" - YOU DID! > > Nice attempt at misdirection, but a very old technique. :-) > > That sort of misdirection is puerile (meaning childish). > If you have some bona fides on English grammar and some > false idea that ALL must be literal with NO departure from > such literalness, please state them. Otherwise go into > auto-fornication mode since we ain't buyin that, homie. :-) > > Let's reprise. First you state that capacitors were never > color coded. You got called on that and corrected by more > than myself. Secondly, you've never admitted being wrong or > corrected. Third, you try to (badly) convince others that > those who corrected your statement are "wrong" or "at fault." > > Amazing. You make mistakes and then try to convince all that > those mistakes never happened or that it is "wrong" to try to > correct your mistakes! :-) who that we know does that Sound Like Len remind you of a certain exMarine we know and loathe > > Here's some more to chew on: > > RFCs (Radio Frequency Chokes, inductors) in axial-lead plastic > tubular packages are STILL marked with color-code bands. There's > a MIL SPEC on that as all "long-time design engineers" should > know; such parts are even used in commercial market electronics. > It's really irrelevant HOW capacitors are marked as long anyone > using them can know their value and working voltage and > tolerance and apply them properly. > > There are 7 (seven) amateur radio licensees in the USA that could > answer to "Al Klein." Are you one of those? > > I can say without hesitation that I am NOT a licensed amateur. > I am a licensed commercial-professional in radio and have been > so for 50 years, beginning in military 24/7 big-time HF > communications 53 1/2 years ago. I have all sorts of valid > documentation on that and some in here have seen some of that. > Do you have ANYTHING in the way of ID? On the Internet? > > Or, are you going to scribble meaningless misdirections in here, > attempting to portray some personal "outrage" for being > corrected? Especially about a well-known electronic component > identification method which you don't seem to know yet others > can verify? > > I'll just put you down as an IMPOSTER poster, one of those > wanna-bees who might never have been anything but really, > really wants to be someone. That's up to you. I don't care. > I've seen your kind on the Internet, on the Bulletin Board > Systems since 1984. None have anything worthwhile to > contribute but all wanting to be a SOMEBODY on screens. > > LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 228414 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David 01" References: <1155265525.310166.4760@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <4fspd2p7qecou8mmsf5tipdh59nfo5l2qs@4ax.com> <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1155433505.131116.226510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155434298.409922.126140@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155606175.469557.27070@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1qf3e2tu8t5lrd82arlr6eitfb6l3poo1b@4ax.com> <1155709292.489367.259930@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155853578.502660.314550@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155868018.510672.53590@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:28:20 -0400 Message-ID: <7adbc$44e525b5$471cfff1$18714@ALLTEL.NET> This one is getting a whole lot old. "an old friend" wrote in message news:1155868018.510672.53590@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > > From: Al Klein on Wed, Aug 16 2006 6:15 pm > > > > >On 15 Aug 2006 23:21:32 -0700, "LenAnder...@ieee.org" > > > wrote: > > >>From: Al Klein on Tues, Aug 15 2006 5:35 am > > >>Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, > > >>rec.radio.scanner, rec.radio.swap > > >>> wrote: > > >>>>From: Al Klein on Sun, Aug 13 2006 9:15 pm > > >>>>>On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: > > >>>>>>hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com wrote: > > >>>>>>> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? > > >>>>>>ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please > > > > > >>>>>Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. > > > > > >>>> Klein, you said you were an OF. Any olde-fahrt ought to KNOW that > > >>>> silver-mica capacitors were color-dot-coded for about a quarter > > >>>> century. [look in the 1976 ARRL Handbook] Those flat cases > > >>>> were eventually displaced by dipped silver-mica. > > > > > >>>> Paper tubular capacitors in molded plastic tubular casings were > > >>>> marked with color bands and were on the market for at least > > >>>> 15 years, maybe 20...until aced out by ceramic disc capacitors > > >>>> for general bypassing and coupling applications (by both tube > > >>>> and transistor architecture electronics). > > > > > >>>> ANYONE with hands-on experience in electronics between 1950 > > >>>> and about 1970 would KNOW that. [okay, folks, looks like > > >>>> there's another imposter here...at least this one isn't > > >>>> trying to pass hisself off as some marine NCO...:-) > > > > > >>>Try reading what I wrote. > > > > > >> Tsk, Klein, you don't write enough to read. > > > > > >I'm not the one who misread "capacitors didn't *ESCAPE* getting color > > >coded" for "capacitors didn't *GET* color coded" - YOU DID! > > > > Nice attempt at misdirection, but a very old technique. :-) > > > > That sort of misdirection is puerile (meaning childish). > > If you have some bona fides on English grammar and some > > false idea that ALL must be literal with NO departure from > > such literalness, please state them. Otherwise go into > > auto-fornication mode since we ain't buyin that, homie. :-) > > > > Let's reprise. First you state that capacitors were never > > color coded. You got called on that and corrected by more > > than myself. Secondly, you've never admitted being wrong or > > corrected. Third, you try to (badly) convince others that > > those who corrected your statement are "wrong" or "at fault." > > > > Amazing. You make mistakes and then try to convince all that > > those mistakes never happened or that it is "wrong" to try to > > correct your mistakes! :-) > > who that we know does that Sound Like Len > > remind you of a certain exMarine we know and loathe > > > > Here's some more to chew on: > > > > RFCs (Radio Frequency Chokes, inductors) in axial-lead plastic > > tubular packages are STILL marked with color-code bands. There's > > a MIL SPEC on that as all "long-time design engineers" should > > know; such parts are even used in commercial market electronics. > > It's really irrelevant HOW capacitors are marked as long anyone > > using them can know their value and working voltage and > > tolerance and apply them properly. > > > > There are 7 (seven) amateur radio licensees in the USA that could > > answer to "Al Klein." Are you one of those? > > > > I can say without hesitation that I am NOT a licensed amateur. > > I am a licensed commercial-professional in radio and have been > > so for 50 years, beginning in military 24/7 big-time HF > > communications 53 1/2 years ago. I have all sorts of valid > > documentation on that and some in here have seen some of that. > > Do you have ANYTHING in the way of ID? On the Internet? > > > > Or, are you going to scribble meaningless misdirections in here, > > attempting to portray some personal "outrage" for being > > corrected? Especially about a well-known electronic component > > identification method which you don't seem to know yet others > > can verify? > > > > I'll just put you down as an IMPOSTER poster, one of those > > wanna-bees who might never have been anything but really, > > really wants to be someone. That's up to you. I don't care. > > I've seen your kind on the Internet, on the Bulletin Board > > Systems since 1984. None have anything worthwhile to > > contribute but all wanting to be a SOMEBODY on screens. > > > > LenAnderson@ieee.org > > Article: 228415 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Wow. . . Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 19:31:37 -0700 Message-ID: References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:14:21 -0700, Joe Bloe wrote: > Gee. . . You're sure a cheery fellow. > I was mostly interested in the Historic Art of the darn thing. I >well know it's majorly "Out Dated", but if one does things for the >pure enjoyment of it, then I guess it's not the issue of performance, >but art, which is also defined by retrieving a wonderful time from out >of our past. I'm just a stupid romantic at heat. . . And I enjoy >being so. Hi Rob, One does not have to be: 1. Stupid; 2. Romantic; or 3. Out Dated to use a cage properly. > Me thinks the subject still isn't >closed due to that simple fact that nobody really yet knows for sure. Visit: http://home.comcast.net/~kb7qhc/antennas/verticals/Cage/cage.htm to see just how much work you have to go to (the picture explains that easily enough), to know for sure (it isn't really all that mysterious), and to get it right (not hard in the least). 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 228416 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? - Mark, Just ignore them. Date: 17 Aug 2006 19:33:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1155868414.766864.93870@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1155433505.131116.226510@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Al Klein wrote: > On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:33:22 GMT, Slow Code wrote: > > >Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote in news:7cv7e2p3c3bud3veru2str1cri9dtboav8@4ax.com: > > >>>I'm not the one who misread "capacitors didn't *ESCAPE* getting color > >>>coded" for "capacitors didn't *GET* color coded" - YOU DID! > > >> and yet you dare to attack others for there mistakes take the lumps > >> you earn OM or bow out > > Since I have you killfiled, I didn't see the original post, Markie, > and I probably won't see your reply if you post one, but dyslexia > doesn't excuse you for this one. Google has my original post, so I > have no need to defend what others don't understand. Yes, Murky, it's > YOUR mistake ... again. nope yours but then you make so many and adknowledge none of them killfile away of course it leaves little ornothing to post about Article: 228417 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: cease, desist and grow up Date: 17 Aug 2006 19:35:28 -0700 Message-ID: <1155868528.387517.185650@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> kb9rqz_child_molester@yahoo.com wrote: > cease, desist and grow up Article: 228418 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bart Bailey Subject: Re: Hustler / Newtronics 5BTV Message-ID: <44e52bb5.1592293@bart.spawar.mil> References: <44bdca47.760212@bart.spawar.mil> <44c9688e.8930969@bart.spawar.mil> <1btsb2pkem8q6aqdalnm0472j79ocphfl9@4ax.com> <44c19a48.3417774@bart.spawar.mil> <44c24eca.2012128@bart.spawar.mil> <44c1ecbf.2458643@bart.spawar.mil> Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 03:07:32 GMT In Message-ID:<44c1ecbf.2458643@bart.spawar.mil> posted on Thu, 20 Jul 2006 20:58:18 GMT, Bart Bailey wrote: >I also considered the Butternut HF2V, >but thought for less outlay I could get five instead of two bands. >Maybe better to get two bands that work than five that don't. The HF2V is the way I finally went, since a friend gave me an old one he had lying on his roof. It's base is elevated about seven feet above the earth ground and counterpoises to a stake directly beneath it as well as being tied into the ground system for the 10/12/15 antenna and the long wire that connects to the shield of the local cable company's system. There's another mast only 36" away but it doesn't seem to be skewing the pattern too bad as I was strong going east into Texas as well as north into NORCAL last night on the shakedown test. The other vertical pole a mere 36" away doesn't appear to adversely affect the SWR of the Butternut nor vice versa. BTW: I chose not to feed it with bare coax but used a 1:1 balun as a precaution against any stray fields that might cause a hot shack effect. -- Bart Article: 228419 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope References: <12e7nor3rhkm374@corp.supernews.com> <8dTEg.349$yB3.76@newsfe02.lga> <12ea23179s8ki78@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 03:11:15 GMT Roy Lewallen wrote: > Welcome back to the group, Barry. I, and I know many others, really > appreciate hearing the straight story from someone who truly knows what > he's talking about. Thanks! Speaking of someone who truly knows what he is talking about Roy, here's a technical question for you. Given that a mobile antenna stinger has a VF of approximately 1.0 so we can determine the approximate number of degrees that it occupies and ... Given that we can use EZNEC to determine the feedpoint impedance of that stinger, it seems to follow that ... We should be able to use a Smith Chart to determine the characteristic impedance (Z0) of that stinger. Yes, no? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228420 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 03:16:52 GMT Mike Coslo wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> You can probably arrive at the same correct technical >> conclusions by downloading the free demo version of >> EZNEC and selecting the diameter of the conductor. > > No doubt, Cecil. Of course this wasn't where the conversation > started at. I haven't tried EZNEC to model a cage antenna, will it do > it? Or do you just make the wires really thick? And how does really > thick wire compare to a cage of the same relative diameter? You can use the free demo version to model a large diameter radiator with up to 20 segments. For the actual multi-wire cage antenna, one would need to spring for the non-free version which is, IMO, the best bargain in ham radio antenna simulation software. Why ask questions here when the answer is available to any individual who springs for EZNEC? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228421 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: nm5k@wt.net Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope Date: 17 Aug 2006 20:41:46 -0700 Message-ID: <1155872506.634967.122890@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: Bruce Wilson wrote: > Of course it needs to last for decades or more in > the sun. Like Roy says... good luck... Better be some really UV resistant stuff if you want it to last decades. > > As always, if you have suggestions that haven't occurred to me I'll gladly > listen to them. Myself, I use antenna support *wire*. And that will last for decades. But another reason I do that, is often I lengthen the antenna wires for other bands. Fer instance, at the moment I'm using an 80 meter turnstile, which are crossed dipoles, and also a 40 meter dipole, all fed parallel with one coax. But two of the 80m wires can be doubled to act as a 160m dipole, and also I have a set of jumpers to use it for 20m. So by just changing the locations of the insulators, I can change things around according to season. I can have the present setup, or I can have 80,40,20, or I can have 160,80,40. The latter is the usual "winter" mode. My wires including the support wires are so strong they will crumple the top section of mast before the wire breaks. I had that happen when a large tree branch fell on a leg in an ice storm. The wire didn't break. But it bent the top mast section over, and I had to replace it. That was cheap though, as I use an extra top mast section which is not part of the actual telescoping mast. Sure, fresh rope is just as good, but it won't last as long as the wire. Mine is insulated also, so that helps to prevent corrosion. I don't see why it wouldn't work in a pully as long as it didn't kink up on you. MK Article: 228422 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: nm5k@wt.net Subject: Re: Hustler / Newtronics 5BTV Date: 17 Aug 2006 20:55:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1155873300.834876.258850@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: <44bdca47.760212@bart.spawar.mil> Bart Bailey wrote: > In Message-ID:<44c1ecbf.2458643@bart.spawar.mil> posted on Thu, 20 Jul > 2006 20:58:18 GMT, Bart Bailey wrote: > > >I also considered the Butternut HF2V, > >but thought for less outlay I could get five instead of two bands. > >Maybe better to get two bands that work than five that don't. The butternut will blow the doors off the hustler on 80 and 40. The hustler verticals use the same lossy traps that the mobile whips use. I think the resonators are exactly the same unless they have changed them. I don't like their coils. They are overly lossy for my tastes. Comparing my cheap homebrew coil directly against the hustler coil is a large difference in performance. I think of them as dummy loads on a stick, but to each his own I guess. I have some of those resonators laying around here I get free. I won't use em... No way... They collect dust. I guess I should give them away to someone else... For 5-6 etc bands, the HF6V is quite a bit more efficient than the hustler. Not a big deal on the higher bands so much, but the low bands will separate the sticked heater loads vs the radiators of RF... :/ OF course , both of those needs either radials on the ground, or tuned radials if elevated. The "1/2" wave type R7's. etc might well be a pretty good option. I've worked quite a few of those, and used one at field day, and they work pretty well. Not as good as a HF2V on 80m, but maybe close on 40m.. Just depends on the setup. It is handy not requiring radials to function.. MK Article: 228423 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Graywolf" References: <12e7nor3rhkm374@corp.supernews.com> <8dTEg.349$yB3.76@newsfe02.lga> Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 00:14:56 -0400 Thanks for the information, Owen. "Owen Duffy" wrote in message news:iq78e25sfh9l6kh57kjietvmjbi6ved052@4ax.com... >>Polyethylene and polypropylene ropes are rapidly destroyed in sunlight. > > Barry, > > There is a type of rope known here as Silver Rope. I understand that > it is manufactured from UV stabilised polyethylene and claims > resistance to sunlight. It is also claimed to be resistance to most > acids and alkalis. > > It is a very low cost rope, white in colour, and is widely used in > marine applications. > > I have halyards and tails of this stuff that have been in the weather > for 10 years with no significant degradation (superficially or > observed when the strands are opened up). > > Silver Rope is about half the price of Dacron rope (though only about > 80% of the strength of Dacron). It takes knots well (as well as the > better synthetic fibre ropes, it has a slightly greasy feel), good > abrasion resistance and it is easy to splice. > > Owen Ultraviolet stabilizers can only do so much for polyolefin plastics. But these plastics do resist acids and other chemicals very well. I suspect this rope material contains a significant amount of titanium dioxide pigment. Unlike carbon black which absorbs the ultraviolet, the titania reflects it. What normally happens with polyolefins containing significant amounts of titanium dioxide is that the surface degrades quickly leaving a layer of the exposed pigment to reflect most of the ultraviolet, thereby protecting the polymer underneath. In some cases, the oxidized surface will hold moisture and conductive salts slightly reducing its insulating and dielectric properties. One reason polyester ropes stretch so very little has to do with how the fibers in the rope are made. After the fiber filaments are extruded, they are immediately stretched. This axially orients the polymer chain and gives it a much higher strength. The same thing is done when making soft drink bottles out of polyester. They start with what is known as a parison (or preform) which is injection molded. This preform has the screw top molded in. The bottom of the parison is heated in an infrared oven above the polyester's glass transition temperature (around 90 to 95 C for polyethylene terephthalate). It is then placed in a mold and inflated to create the bottle shape, This inflation does bi-axial stretching of the polymer backbone giving the bottle its great strength. If you want to perform a simple experiment, take a PET bottle and hold its neck or cap area with a pair of long pliers. Carefully pour boiling water (100 C) into the bottle. This is above the plastic's glass transition temperature. The bottle will shrink, much like heat-shrink tubing, but it will not completely return to its original size. If you do this experiment, be VERY careful as boiling water will spill out the top of the bottle as the bottle shrinks. I used to work in the research laboratories of Eastman Chemical Company. Eastman made PET, PEN, PETG (glycol-modified PET, used in microwave/conventional oven dinners), as well as polyethylene and polypropylene. Some of their liquid crystal polymers would make excellent, very high-strength rope, but the cost would be rather prohibitive for most hams. I still have a large bag of fiberglass filled PET tensile test bars >from my days there. These make wonderful antenna and open-wire line insulators. 73, Barry WA4VZQ NOornitzSPAM@tricon.net Article: 228424 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: davis@space.mit.edu (John E. Davis) Subject: Re: Moxon comments welcome References: Message-ID: Date: 18 Aug 2006 05:29:40 GMT On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:18:44 -0400, jawod wrote: >Is it worth consideration? I built one for the lower 3 MURS channels, and it works great. I put it in my attic and the environment there brought down the VSWR enabling it to function well on 2 meters. It works better (in the direction it is more/less pointed) than my j-pole, and has a very good front to back ratio. Here are the design parameters I used (1/8 inch brazing rod): CM Moxon antenna for MURS CE GW 1 1 -0.0962827 -0.00107657 8.78982 -0.00153852 0.000570162 8.78696 0.0015875 GW 2 9 -0.00153852 0.000570162 8.78696 0.000136935 0.000391379 9.50055 0.0015875 GW 3 1 0.000136935 0.000391379 9.50055 -0.0966646 0.000614526 9.49849 0.0015875 GW 4 1 -0.128867 -0.000352607 9.49837 -0.263769 -0.00132972 9.5011 0.0015875 GW 5 9 -0.263769 -0.00132972 9.5011 -0.264979 0.000746241 8.78833 0.0015875 GW 6 1 -0.264979 0.000746241 8.78833 -0.126962 -0.00066876 8.78845 0.0015875 GW 7 17 0.915355 -0.608882 9.49961 0.915743 -0.607934 7.97677 0.0015875 GE 0 FR 0 33 0 0 144 0.5 EX 0 2 5 0 1 RP 0 31 73 1001 0, 0, 3, 5, 10000, 0 EN --John Article: 228425 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Bruce Wilson" References: <12e7nor3rhkm374@corp.supernews.com> <8dTEg.349$yB3.76@newsfe02.lga> Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 23:46:16 -0600 Message-ID: "Graywolf" wrote in message news:a9bFg.413$fd1.286@newsfe05.lga... > I used to work in the research laboratories of Eastman Chemical Company. > Eastman made PET, PEN, PETG (glycol-modified PET, used in > microwave/conventional oven dinners), as well as polyethylene and > polypropylene. Some of their liquid crystal polymers would make > excellent, very high-strength rope, but the cost would be rather > prohibitive for most hams. > 73, Barry WA4VZQ > NOornitzSPAM@tricon.net I believe that Dacron is actually PET. At least that's what I read at Wikipedia. -- Bruce Wilson KF7K http://science.uvsc.edu/wilson Article: 228426 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Buck Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Message-ID: References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 03:07:06 -0400 >http://home.comcast.net/~kb7qhc/antennas/verticals/Cage/cage.htm >offers an example that may be suitable. This is a 4 meter tall >antenna that tunes all frequencies from 20M through 10M. > >73's >Richard Clark, KB7QHC What is the diameter of the antenna design? buck n4pgw -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW Article: 228427 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 00:15:12 -0700 Message-ID: References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 03:07:06 -0400, Buck wrote: >>http://home.comcast.net/~kb7qhc/antennas/verticals/Cage/cage.htm >>offers an example that may be suitable. This is a 4 meter tall >>antenna that tunes all frequencies from 20M through 10M. >What is the diameter of the antenna design? Hi Buck, Download the EZNEC file for a specific answer, by dead reckoning (look at the picture) it is around 2 meters in diameter. Plus or minus. ...pretty thick wire. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 228428 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Graywolf" References: <12e7nor3rhkm374@corp.supernews.com> <8dTEg.349$yB3.76@newsfe02.lga> Subject: Re: Antenna Support Rope Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 03:16:22 -0400 "Bruce Wilson" wrote in message news:TrCdnX4B3cy3yXjZnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d@comcast.com... > > I believe that Dacron is actually PET. At least that's what I read at > Wikipedia. Dacron was originally PET fiber made by DuPont. It was their registered trade name, but.is now owned by Invista. When Eastman Chemical Company was still part of Kodak and still manufactured PET fibers, its trade name was Kodel. Polyester fibers are made by a number of companies, each with their own tradename. When referenced as rope, polyethylene terephthalate is usually implied. However, other thermo-softening polyesters, such as polybutylene terephthalate end polyethylene nalhthalate, are available. Thermo-setting polyester resins, too, are found. These are commonly used in fiberglass boats and some printed circuit boards although most printed circuits use epoxy resins. Quoting from the Invista website(www.invista.com): "INVISTA is independently managed but wholly owned by a subsidiary of Koch Industries, Inc. On April 30, 2004, subsidiaries of Koch Industries, Inc. acquired INVISTA from E. I. du Pont de Nemours and Company. INVISTA, formerly DuPont Textiles and Interiors (DTI), was merged with KoSa, a producer of commodity and specialty polyester fibers, polymers and intermediates. KoSa had been a Koch affiliate since 1998." 73, Barry WA4VZQ NOornitzSPAM@tricon.net Article: 228429 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Joe Bloe Subject: Re: 2 Meter Beam Element Question Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 00:46:31 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1155427993.365527.265200@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Tam's totaly correct in that. I tried it, only to find that a three elemnt yagi performs a whole lot less than a silly J-Pole does on 2 meters. That, and your modulation drops out the bottom for some reason too. 5 elements or more. Fewer elements is just a wast of your time, effort, and money. Also, a cheap TeeVee rotor will work very well on such a small yagi like that! Rob/KD7YMR On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 08:41:11 -0400, "Tam/WB2TT" wrote: > >"N3" wrote in message >news:1155427993.365527.265200@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >> Which is more practical? >> Driven element with two directors or reflector, driven element, >> director. >> >Neither one is worth building at 2 meters. A 5 element beam with a >reflector, driven element. and 3 directors could be built on a 4 - 5 foot >boom. > >Tam/WB2TT > Article: 228430 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bart Bailey Subject: Re: Hustler / Newtronics 5BTV Message-ID: <44e583dc.2782024@bart.spawar.mil> References: <44bdca47.760212@bart.spawar.mil> <44c9688e.8930969@bart.spawar.mil> <1btsb2pkem8q6aqdalnm0472j79ocphfl9@4ax.com> <44c19a48.3417774@bart.spawar.mil> <44c24eca.2012128@bart.spawar.mil> <44c1ecbf.2458643@bart.spawar.mil> <44e52bb5.1592293@bart.spawar.mil> <1155873300.834876.258850@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:12:28 GMT In Message-ID:<1155873300.834876.258850@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> posted on 17 Aug 2006 20:55:00 -0700, nm5k@wt.net wrote: > It is handy not requiring radials >to function.. While I don't have the textbook pretty radials, there are metallic conductors extending radially from the base, albeit in a somewhat jagged pattern. -- Bart Article: 228431 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 02:39:00 -0700 Message-ID: <12eb2lp4pbrg55a@corp.supernews.com> References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> Richard Clark wrote: > On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:33:17 -0400, Mike Coslo > wrote: > >> how does really thick wire >> compare to a cage of the same relative diameter? > > Hi Mike, > > Close, but no cigar. Actually, the degree of closeness depends on how > well the cage represents the solid. That degree is a function of the > number of wires that form the skeletal shape. Four is pretty lousy, > 120 would be outstanding. Then there is something in the middle: > > http://home.comcast.net/~kb7qhc/antennas/verticals/Cage/cage.htm > offers an example that may be suitable. This is a 4 meter tall > antenna that tunes all frequencies from 20M through 10M. A single fat wire can be a reasonable approximation to a cage provided that the diameter is very small compared to a wavelength. (The NEC recommendation is around 0.02 wavelength maximum diameter, which you can find in the EZNEC manual in the Building The Model/Modeling The Antenna Structure/About Wires topic.) For a cage of only a few parallel wires, you can use an equivalent diameter as follows, where d = the wire diameter and s = ctr-ctr wire spacing, everything in the same units: 2 wires - Equiv. dia. = 1.414 * sqrt(d * s) 3 wires in a triangle - Equiv. dia. = 1.587 * cube root(d * s^2) 4 wires in a square - Equiv. dia. = 1.834 * fourth root(d * s^3) N wires equally spaced on a circle with radius r - Equiv. dia. = 2 * r * Nth root((N * d) / (2 * r)) -- derived from equations in Fundamentals of Coupled Lines and Multiwire Antennas, by Hidenari Uchida (Sasaki, 1967). I've made myself a note to include this in a future EZNEC manual update. For cages larger than about 0.02 wavelength diameter, you should model the individual wires. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 228432 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom" Subject: VHF/UHF antenna on a motorcycle Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:02:01 GMT Hello all , I would like to install a VHF-UHF antenna on my motorcycle . It's a Suzuki GSX750 . I did some tests with a Diamond NR-770H and it works well . The only problem is that the antenna is to big for such a bike . Afterwards i did a test with a Diamond NR-77 . The antenna is about 43 cm and that's about the size i would like to use . The problem i have with this antenna is the swr , it's to high . Anyone an idea how i can solve this problem ? Many thanks . Tom Article: 228433 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "AndyS" Subject: Re: VHF/UHF antenna on a motorcycle Date: 18 Aug 2006 04:04:35 -0700 Message-ID: <1155899075.530532.171230@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Tom wrote: > Hello all , > > I would like to install a VHF-UHF antenna on my motorcycle > > Anyone an idea how i can solve this problem ? > Andy suggests: Well, if it were me, I think it would look really cool on top of my helmet. As an alternative, you could mount a couple of Viking horns on either side of the helmet, and use them as a dipole.... Use Texas longhorns if you want to go to HF...... Lots of fashion possibilities.. Good luck, Andy W4OAH Article: 228434 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Christen Fihl" References: Subject: Re: VHF/UHF antenna on a motorcycle Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:54:02 +0200 Message-ID: <44e5aa5a$0$173$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk> Here is a helmet model ;-) http://www.armyradio.com/arsc/customer/product.php?productid=1625&cat=99&page=1 as Andy suggests -- Christen Fihl http://HSPascal.Fihl.net Article: 228435 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Not Cocksucker Lloyd" Subject: Re: VHF/UHF antenna on a motorcycle Date: 18 Aug 2006 05:22:19 -0700 Message-ID: <1155903739.085231.305400@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: AndyS wrote: > Tom wrote: > > Hello all , > > > > I would like to install a VHF-UHF antenna on my motorcycle > > > > Anyone an idea how i can solve this problem ? > > > > Andy suggests: > Well, if it were me, I think it would look really cool on top > of my helmet. LIke those 1950's sci-fi movie astronauts! > As an alternative, you could mount a couple of Viking horns > on either side of the helmet, and use them as a dipole.... > Use Texas longhorns if you want to go to HF...... > Lots of fashion possibilities.. > > Good luck, Andy W4OAH LOL!!!!!!!! Article: 228436 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: ml Subject: Re: New antenna find and disappointment References: <242$44e4ccec$453d9423$1588@FUSE.NET> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:38:38 GMT In article , "Philo" wrote: > "jawod" wrote in message > news:242$44e4ccec$453d9423$1588@FUSE.NET... > >I just stumbled upon a cool approach to an "antenna-in-a-box". Titanex > >AKS8010 is a 3 legged tower system topped with a log period array that > >doubles as a capacitance hat: each of the 3 legs of the tower is a > >vertical. > > > > What a cool idea. > > > > I contacted their US Supplier: Array Solutions and Jay tells me that the > > producer is unreliable and not consumer-responsive. He dropped his > > supplier status with them 5 years ago and has asked Titanex to remove his > > address from their website several times. > > > > It's listed at 2695 Euros...not cheap, eh? > > > > Still, I think this is an intriguing approach. > > > > Here is their (Titanex's) address: > > http://www.titanex.de > > > > John > > AB8O > > Titanex sells fine antennas. It's "first class" material. I build the DLP15: > it's a jewel. > > Just one thing: the English they use in the building instructions stinks, so > you would better know what you are doing when you assemble their stuff. > > They also don't know how to make pictures and the B&W photocopies (from > photocopies from photocopies) are a shame considering the cost of the > antennas. > > Kind regards, > > Philo > > PS: I know, my English stinks too, but I don't sell antennas. i can't comment on the actual product but jay is a fair guy if he says the vendor isn't responsive, watch out a good product from a bad person is not worth it to me anymore maybe i am pickey support and such are most important Article: 228437 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Not Cocksucker Lloyd" Subject: Poor Markie! Date: 18 Aug 2006 05:40:56 -0700 Message-ID: <1155904856.192887.112830@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> an old friendless cocksucking child molester wrote: > cease Cry, you illiterate cunt, cry! Article: 228438 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: ml Subject: Re: performance of Gorge-mounted dipoles? References: <1155535365.682034.199490@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155558428.602187.281590@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:43:58 GMT In article <1155558428.602187.281590@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Denny" wrote: > It has been done... It works... The biggest one I am aware of was a 160 > meter wire beam... > > denny hey do me a favor just give it a try who knows then please post the results it sounds like a fun experiment Article: 228439 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44E5B802.2090401@fuse.net> Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:52:18 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: Moxon comments welcome References: John E. Davis wrote: > On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:18:44 -0400, jawod > wrote: > >>Is it worth consideration? > > > I built one for the lower 3 MURS channels, and it works great. I put > it in my attic and the environment there brought down the VSWR > enabling it to function well on 2 meters. It works better (in the > direction it is more/less pointed) than my j-pole, and has a very good > front to back ratio. > > Here are the design parameters I used (1/8 inch brazing rod): > > CM Moxon antenna for MURS > CE > GW 1 1 -0.0962827 -0.00107657 8.78982 -0.00153852 0.000570162 8.78696 0.0015875 > GW 2 9 -0.00153852 0.000570162 8.78696 0.000136935 0.000391379 9.50055 0.0015875 > GW 3 1 0.000136935 0.000391379 9.50055 -0.0966646 0.000614526 9.49849 0.0015875 > GW 4 1 -0.128867 -0.000352607 9.49837 -0.263769 -0.00132972 9.5011 0.0015875 > GW 5 9 -0.263769 -0.00132972 9.5011 -0.264979 0.000746241 8.78833 0.0015875 > GW 6 1 -0.264979 0.000746241 8.78833 -0.126962 -0.00066876 8.78845 0.0015875 > GW 7 17 0.915355 -0.608882 9.49961 0.915743 -0.607934 7.97677 0.0015875 > GE 0 > FR 0 33 0 0 144 0.5 > EX 0 2 5 0 1 > RP 0 31 73 1001 0, 0, 3, 5, 10000, 0 > EN > > --John I'm sorry, I know what MARS is...what is MURS? John AB8O Article: 228440 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44E5B917.6050406@fuse.net> Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:56:55 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: Poor Markie! References: <44e0d125$0$11665$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <1155647054.102548.311910@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155652156.490629.231870@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1155732002.602849.123660@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> <1155732492.347529.228590@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155732567.701545.37420@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1155732649.689048.244200@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155755878.737265.55800@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155819580.435966.161810@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155868528.387517.185650@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1155904856.192887.112830@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Not Cocksucker Lloyd wrote: > an old friendless cocksucking child molester wrote: > >>cease > > > Cry, you illiterate cunt, cry! > Nobody reads your ridiculous posts Article: 228441 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: Poor Markie! Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:50:13 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1155732492.347529.228590@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155732567.701545.37420@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1155732649.689048.244200@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155755878.737265.55800@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155819580.435966.161810@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155868528.387517.185650@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1155904856.192887.112830@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On 18 Aug 2006 05:40:56 -0700, "Not Cocksucker Lloyd" wrote: > >an old friendless cocksucking child molester wrote: >> cease > >Cry, you illiterate cunt, cry! cease desists and grow up http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228442 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "kh" Message-ID: <0QMXZWh9EdSr-pn2-zZuVyPTYdECn@localhost> Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada References: Date: 18 Aug 2006 14:55:43 +0100 > "Paul Hinman" wrote in message > news:aLfEg.400583$Mn5.137675@pd7tw3no... > I frequently see postings in the ham radio related newsgroups for items > currently being offered on E-Bay. > > All to often I that items will be shipped only to the lower 48 states, > leaving hams in Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada out of the picture. What is the > problem. In Canada we are well served by FEDEX and the United States Postal > Service. Amateur radio equipment crosses the border with out any problem. > I realize that Hawaii and Alaska may be a bit far from the "lower 48" but > the same delivery services are available even though surface transportation > may be a little bit slow. In the US you also have UPS, the folks in Brown > which we Canadians prefer not to use because the often make the border > crossing more difficult than it needs to be and we don't like getting stuck > with brokerage fees. > > So why the discrimination, if the buyer knows that delivery may take a > little longer and is prepared to accept the fact then it becomes a non > problem. If the seller is intimidated by the prospect of complicated > paperwork, he needn't be. Please leave it up to the buyer to decide whether > he wants to bib or not. > > I can not speak for shipments to Europe, Africa, India, China, or the South > Pacific but for fellow Americans, or friendly northern neighbours, I think > that people should be prepared to deal with us. > > Thanx for letting get this off my chest and I realize that I have cross > posted this to four different newsgroups but I wanted to get to a broad > audience. > > Paul Paul, The reason is very straightforward. This is a boatanchor newsgroup and it's mostly geezers who deal in old radios. Geezers live in the past; WE don't think critically; the same tired thoughts cycle through our heads. Even worse, many of us hallucinate and make up reasons. You'll see several in this thread. Many geezers (to be fair, not all) are Xeno-phobic. To them, Hawai'i is FAR away and never having been there, geezers imagine that it's a foreign country with different laws a strange language. In their minds, it's a not that far from Hawai'i to, say, Nigeria or Pakistan. Even if they could call the Honolulu police to report a deal gone bad, they would not be able to speak to them with finding a translater. On the other hand, a geezer thinks, OK, I'm in Virginia, if a $30 deal in Kansas goes bad, I'll just get in the Biscayne and drive over there tomorrow, demand my money. I have that recourse. People! As Paul says, Hawaii and Alaska are U.S. States. They have senators in Washington. They vote for the president. As far as the U.S.P.S, FedEx, and UPS are concerned, those states are, like, right over there. To Sprint and other fone companies, after 7 or 8 PM, just pick up your fone and those places are a free call. If you pay for wired service, it's 5 or 7 cents a minute. Here are some actual numbers from www.fedex.com 2 day service - 20 pounds Virginia to Kansas - $61.85 Virginia to California -$65.83 Virginia to Hawai'i - $66.87 2 day service - 60 pounds Virginia to Kansas - $151.93 Virginia to California -$166.63 Virginia to Hawai'i - $169.24 About the same price for 2nd day service. FedEx Ground service - 20 pounds Virginia to Kansas - $12.70 - 4 days Virginia to California -$16.03 - 4 days Virginia to Hawai'i - $48.22 - 7 days FedEx Ground service - 60 pounds Virginia to Kansas - $28.40 - 4 days Virginia to California -$39.08 - 4 days Virginia to Hawai'i - $114.63 - 7 days Three days longer and more dollars going ground to Hawai'i. But then Buyer Pays Shipping! The same tracking and return receipt, the same laws govern the business deal. It takes about the same amount of time. The reason that they say "lower 48" is that they think it's still 1936. It just comes out. There's no reason other than old thoughts cycling in old heads like regeneration in a triode. It's like hollarin' out, Kids these days! You call that music! Dag-nabbit! I've bought items from Canada and sold to Canada. One thing I don't like about it is that it's expensive to ship across the border. In fact, it's cheaper to ship though Canada to Alaska. But then, buyer pays. I just had the experience of buying from China, a DEGEN DE1103. If you don't have one, go over to the Bay and look up the seller LIYPN. $44 for the radio and $24 shipping and insurance. Took about 8 days to get here. This is the best pocket shortware radio. Check out the reviews on the web. 1 kHz readout, better than 1 uV sensitivity, stable, 4 and 6 kHz filters. Covers 100 kHz to 30 mHz continuous so you can listen to AM broadcast, 160 meters, everything! I can sit in my car, pull out the whip antenna and copy 7040 CW in the evening. I heard W1AW CW the other day, this is in Virginia. SSB sounds good. Well, mostly good. I still can't understand the hollarin' on 27,000. While you're buying and enjoying the DEGEN, think about global commerce and the fact that you just traded with a real foreign country. de ah6gi/4 Article: 228443 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: Poor Markie! Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:50:13 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1155732492.347529.228590@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155732567.701545.37420@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1155732649.689048.244200@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155755878.737265.55800@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1155819580.435966.161810@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1155868528.387517.185650@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1155904856.192887.112830@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <44E5B917.6050406@fuse.net> On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:56:55 -0400, jawod wrote: >Not Cocksucker Lloyd wrote: >> an old friendless cocksucking child molester wrote: >> >>>cease >> >> >> Cry, you illiterate cunt, cry! >> >Nobody reads your ridiculous posts be fiar I certainly do so do you it is good for laughs mosts day laughing a rueshaking of the head http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 228444 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Walter Maxwell Subject: Re: VHF/UHF antenna on a motorcycle Message-ID: References: <44e5aa5a$0$173$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk> Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:59:25 -0400 On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:54:02 +0200, "Christen Fihl" wrote: >Here is a helmet model ;-) >http://www.armyradio.com/arsc/customer/product.php?productid=1625&cat=99&page=1 >as Andy suggests Looks like a brain zapper to me. Walt, W2DU Article: 228445 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada References: <0QMXZWh9EdSr-pn2-zZuVyPTYdECn@localhost> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:11:51 GMT kh wrote: > On the other hand, a geezer thinks, OK, I'm in Virginia, if a > $30 deal in Kansas goes bad, I'll just get in the Biscayne and drive > over there tomorrow, demand my money. I have that recourse. While spending $400 for gasoline? -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228446 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: nitespark Subject: Re: VHF/UHF antenna on a motorcycle References: Message-ID: <6blFg.80936$LF4.934@dukeread05> Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:39:47 -0400 Tom wrote: > Hello all , > > I would like to install a VHF-UHF antenna on my motorcycle . It's a Suzuki > GSX750 . I did some tests with a Diamond NR-770H and it works well . The > only problem is that the antenna is to big for such a bike . > Afterwards i did a test with a Diamond NR-77 . The antenna is about 43 cm > and that's about the size i would like to use . > The problem i have with this antenna is the swr , it's to high . > > Anyone an idea how i can solve this problem ? > > Many thanks . > You may not be getting a proper counter-poise to the antenna system. I would check grounding on the antenna and make certain the antenna mount is in good solid contact with the metal frame of the bike. You mentioned the larger antenna worked well. Does that mean the SWR was good or it just performed adequately? Which band is having the SWR problems? What type of mount does the Diamond use? I am very partial to the NMO type antenna mount. I know there are some antennas that use an SO239 type mount which is just a "UHF" connector on the end of a piece of coax. These are not that well suited for 70cm operation although you do see them quite a bit. Also, how much power are you going to be putting into the antenna? I would be concerned about RF exposure if its very much. Andy WD4KDN Article: 228447 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Michael Coslo Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:43:34 -0400 Message-ID: References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> Cecil Moore wrote: > Mike Coslo wrote: >> Cecil Moore wrote: >>> You can probably arrive at the same correct technical >>> conclusions by downloading the free demo version of >>> EZNEC and selecting the diameter of the conductor. >> >> No doubt, Cecil. Of course this wasn't where the conversation >> started at. I haven't tried EZNEC to model a cage antenna, will it do >> it? Or do you just make the wires really thick? And how does really >> thick wire compare to a cage of the same relative diameter? > > You can use the free demo version to model a large diameter > radiator with up to 20 segments. For the actual multi-wire > cage antenna, one would need to spring for the non-free > version which is, IMO, the best bargain in ham radio > antenna simulation software. No doubt, it is great software. > Why ask questions here when > the answer is available to any individual who springs for > EZNEC? First thing is that Mr Bloe didn't start the thread off as what the bandwidth of a cage dipole was. The bandwidth question came later. So while it is good advice to send someone to EZNEC, it is kind of presuming the person already knows the answer to their question when you expect them to *not ask the question* in the first place. I find the topic interesting, and certainly the feedback I've gotten >from Richard and Roy have been very illuminating. So I encourage more on the topic. Sure beats those 2000 post threads we seem to get in here! I'd sooner see topics such as this than you and W8JI sharpening your claws on each other......hehe - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 228448 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: davis@space.mit.edu (John E. Davis) Subject: Re: Moxon comments welcome References: <44E5B802.2090401@fuse.net> Message-ID: Date: 18 Aug 2006 15:44:13 GMT On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:52:18 -0400, jawod wrote: >I'm sorry, I know what MARS is...what is MURS? MURS (Multi-User Radio Service) is an unlicensed service using the 5 frequences 151.820, 151.880, 151.940, 154.570, 154.600 MHz. The FCC permits a maximum of 2 watts (TPO) on these channels but allows the attachment an arbitrary gain antenna (with height restrictions). Since repeaters are not allowed, you can think of it as something akin to 2 meter simplex. As a result, I feel that this is a much more serious unlicensed service compared to FRS. It is my experience that the upper 2 frequencies are used mainly by businesses (Costco, Walmart, etc) and the lower 3 are pretty much dead. For this reason, the antennas that I have constructed are geared more for the lower 3 frequencies. See for more information. --John Article: 228449 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "n3ox.dan@gmail.com" Subject: Re: Moxon comments welcome Date: 18 Aug 2006 09:28:03 -0700 Message-ID: <1155918483.477974.279770@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: My 6m antenna is a Moxon. I built it because it seemed to be a good tradeoff over a 2 element yagi, I hear the gain is within a dB or so of a typical 2 el yagi but the front-to-back is very much more (for a relatively broad-banded design); the element tips are bent in to enhance the coupling between the elements and ensure a proper phase relationship to get good front-to-back. Mine is very small and light, modeled F/R around 50-50.5 is >25dB or so, real F/B is s7/inaudible on my FT-857D, for what it's worth. (Not much, I know. I've moved out of the apartment and into a house with a backyard so maybe I can make some non S-meter based measurements). I think it's worth considering vs. a 2 element yagi for HF. You'll notice the enhanced directivity more than you notice ~1dB of gain. On 6m, I was just looking for a very small, light array for an apartment balcony antenna, and I liked how the Moxon stacked up. I didn't really think the F/B was really going to matter until a security light went on the fritz during a nice opening... the band was open out west to Idaho, California, etc. The light was to my east. Pointing at it; s9 noise, pointing away with the light in one of the back nulls, nice band opening, no noise! Since it has a broad forward beam, beaming off 10 degrees to get one of the -35dB nulls in the back on the noise source didn't affect the desired signals much. OK, so, dumb "I worked this cool stuff with it" anecdote aside, mine does what it claims to, and I think it's worth considering, especially for the lowest band on a compact multiband array. It makes it more compact and increases the F/B ratio over a 2 element yagi. The extra directivity makes it work very well as a beam psychologically and emotionally, and there is a even a modest actual improvement to signal to noise, moreso if you have a real noise problem in some direction and like beaming the other! At the apartment, when that light wasn't acting up, beaming to Europe put my building and the other closest buildings off the back... there was a substantial reduction in the noise floor when I was pointed that way... I'm considering one for 20m now. I have permission to put up some antennas at the new rental house but I don't have a ton of space. You can make one with fiberglass fishing poles and wire that's quite light and can be rotated with a TV rotator, though I wouldn't trust it to survive a major gale. www.moxonantennaproject.com has a bunch of pictures and descriptions. Mine is at www.n3ox.net/projects/sixmoxon. 73, Dan Article: 228450 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "n3ox.dan@gmail.com" Subject: Re: New antenna find and disappointment Date: 18 Aug 2006 09:34:30 -0700 Message-ID: <1155918870.420369.304640@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: <242$44e4ccec$453d9423$1588@FUSE.NET> NINE elements for 160!?! Any pictures online? Is this a rotatable rigid monster? BTW, the log periodic on top of the tower sounds like a cool setup, I'd rather roll my own antennas, but it was clever to market it as an all-in-one solution. It's the very high end G5RV :-) Dan Article: 228451 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:48:45 -0700 Message-ID: <99rbe2hg9fhpvjoc01mkrtkl9d5hv9emk0@4ax.com> References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:43:34 -0400, Michael Coslo wrote: > I find the topic interesting, and certainly the feedback I've gotten >from Richard and Roy have been very illuminating. So I encourage more on >the topic. > Hi Mike, Going further, as you encouraged, you can observe the caged concept applied to the Discone antenna at: http://www.qsl.net/kb7qhc/antenna/Discone/discone.htm This also shows how well 16 wires approximate a solid, and further, it also shows how the geometry of the apex angle affects the matching characteristics. This is shown in 7 Smith charts where that angle varies from 20° to 90°. Upon close examination, it appears I report the wrong interval of frequency sweep as every 0.5 MHz. Certainly the range covers 1 to 30 MHz for them all, but it would appear that I shift to every 0.25 MHz for 50° through 90°. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 228452 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:59:02 +0100 Message-ID: <54adnaK0vIfWb3jZRVnyvA@bt.com> It takes a month of Sundays for an expert to enter and interpret the input/output data of a cage dipole using an Eznec-type program. The basic characteristics of a cage dipole can be displayed, in practical terms, in a few seconds by downloading program DIPCAGE2 from website below. Vary length and diameter, number and gauge of wires in cage, etc., and observe how resonant length, bandwidth and SWR change. Program DIPCAGE2. Its about 1/2-way down the list. Been there for years! ---- ........................................................... Regards from Reg, G4FGQ For Free Radio Design Software go to http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp ........................................................... Article: 228453 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Pin-medic" References: Subject: Re: license renewal Message-ID: <8PmFg.7890$oa1.1348@news02.roc.ny> Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:30:44 GMT I agree Bob, and maybe we'd have better operators as a result. Considering the waning interest in our dying hobby though, all that would probably do is eliminate even more operators from the ranks, leading the FCC to reduce our bands even more by selling them to the highest bidder. Ham radio was so much better back in the late 70's, when I first became licensed. People were polite, and the radio had a mystique to it. With the internet and the immediate gratification that everyone seems to expect these days, Ham Radio is undesirable; having to hunt for contacts when you can just IM someone? Having to work for a license? Not anymore, no one wants to put any effort into anything when they have an easier alternative. Unfortunately, the good old days are gone, and ham radio is in the sunset of its existence. 73, JT K6TP "slow code" wrote in message news:IAsEg.8314$xp2.1792@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... > Bob Miller wrote in > news:pj04e2tl6lrcfpsit7ueimv9b1ohk5hbe6@4ax.com: > >> On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:48:49 -0500, "Tom" wrote: >> >>>My license is up for renewal in November. I got a letter from an outfit >>>in Texas wanting $7 to renew it. I thought one could renew their >>>license for free over the internet. >>> >> >> What I did to renew mine: >> >> Go to the FCC website. Find the section on renewing amateur licenses. >> You can download form 610. What's easier, tho', just call the FCC >> phone number they give you, tell them you're renewing, the next day or >> so you will find form 610 and all instructions in your mailbox, free >> of charge. Fill the stuff out and send it in. >> >> The FCC may have a minor charge for renewing, I forget. >> >> If you've changed your address since getting your license, you may >> have to register the new address with the FCC before renewing. You can >> do only one thing at a time on form 610, as I recall. >> >> bob >> k5qwg > > > > > Anyone going to visit the FCC website please leave them these ideas in > their comment box, Thanks. > > > 1-No more automatic renewals. Individuals must retest and pass all > elements required for their license class. > > 2-The passing score for written exams needs to be raised to 85%. > > 3-Code elements should be 13 wpm for General, and 20 wpm for Extra. > > 4-Make the no-code license one year non-renewable. > Article: 228454 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: nm5k@wt.net Subject: Re: 2 Meter Beam Element Question Date: 18 Aug 2006 10:47:19 -0700 Message-ID: <1155923238.846099.183990@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: <1155427993.365527.265200@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Joe Bloe wrote: > Tam's totaly correct in that. I tried it, only to find that a three > elemnt yagi performs a whole lot less than a silly J-Pole does on 2 > meters. There was something wrong with that yagi then... Seriously.. That, and your modulation drops out the bottom for some reason > too. 5 elements or more. Fewer elements is just a wast of your time, > effort, and money. A 3 el NBS yagi gives appx 9.4 dbi gain. How is that a waste of time effort or money? The difference between a good 3 el, and a good 5 el are not all that large. I have a 3 el yagi for FM mounted vertical. I hear stuff on that thing that doesn't exist on a vertical. This is not to say more elements are not worth the trouble. They usually are. But if you have a 3 el that gets smoked by a lousy J-pole, Houston , we have a problem. MK Article: 228455 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Michael Coslo Subject: Re: Wow. . . Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:07:33 -0400 Message-ID: References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> Joe Bloe wrote: > Gee. . . You're sure a cheery fellow. Hi Rob - Richard has a way with words. Stick with him, and you'll start to enjoy it, once you get used to the prose. > I was mostly interested in the Historic Art of the darn thing. I > well know it's majorly "Out Dated", but if one does things for the > pure enjoyment of it, then I guess it's not the issue of performance, > but art, which is also defined by retrieving a wonderful time from out > of our past. I'm just a stupid romantic at heat. . . And I enjoy > being so. It is a viable antenna, and not outdated. It might help you eke out a bit more bandwidth on 80/75 meters. And as far as I am concerned, it is plenty cool looking too. Okay, so you are a romantic. I have a little bit of that in me too! Try these on for size: Make and use some real open line feeder. This stuff is cool, works really well, and has a real retro look to boot. Most of the time we use plastic spacers these days, but if you want to be authentic, you could use wood dowels soaked in hot paraffin. Of course you'll need a tuner for that setup. How about an "open faced tuner"? Wind the coil on a suitable form, and use clips to attach to it to tune. Make everything pretty, and you'll have a nice nostalgia type station that also works. I'd suggest that the tuner have a plexiglass cover for safety. Old school, You bet. Very very cool though. > Thanks for the info though. I guess some how I got the information > backwards, but then again, I also see a great many views on the > subject of a fat conductor. . . Me thinks the subject still isn't > closed due to that simple fact that nobody really yet knows for sure. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 228456 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Philo" References: Subject: Re: VHF/UHF antenna on a motorcycle Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 18:16:38 GMT "Tom" wrote in message news:tegFg.27967$PM3.413819@phobos.telenet-ops.be... > Hello all , > > I would like to install a VHF-UHF antenna on my motorcycle . It's a Suzuki > GSX750 . I did some tests with a Diamond NR-770H and it works well . The > only problem is that the antenna is to big for such a bike . > Afterwards i did a test with a Diamond NR-77 . The antenna is about 43 cm > and that's about the size i would like to use . > The problem i have with this antenna is the swr , it's to high . > > Anyone an idea how i can solve this problem ? > > Many thanks . > > Tom > Just a word of caution: Years ago, when the Brussels police had VHF radios mounted on BMW bikes for the first time, the ABS brakes stopped functioning when the transmitter was on (Not only the ABS, the brakes). I suppose ABS brakes are more EMC proof nowadays, but you can not be too sure. Article: 228457 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Frank's" Subject: Test Post Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 19:00:39 GMT 99 Radial, 8.07 MHz, 9 meter monopole Er: 16 Resistivity: 150 ohm-m Antenna Loss Efficiency Compared (Includes to Radial Radial End Antenna Radiation Radial Surface 10 m Length Separation Zin Resistance Zin Wave). Radials (m) (m) (ohms) (ohms) (ohms) (%) (dB) 0.5 0.026 76.15-33.62i 13.19 62.96-33.62i 17.6 3.66 1 0.058 60.9-18.2i 13.24 47.66-18.2i 21.7 2.75 1.5 0.091 55-13.7i 13.25 41.75-13.7i 24.1 2.29 2 0.123 51.5-12.5i 13.24 38.26-12.5i 25.7 2.01 2.5 0.155 48.9-11.2i 13.22 35.68-11.2i 27.1 1.78 3 0.188 46.6-10.8i 13.18 33.42-10.8i 28.3 1.60 3.5 0.220 44.7-10.5i 13.14 31.56-10.5i 29.4 1.43 4 0.252 42.9-10.1i 13.11 29.79-10.1i 30.6 1.26 4.5 0.285 41.3-9.53i 13.09 28.21-9.53i 31.7 1.10 5 0.317 39.9-8.91i 13.1 26.8-8.91i 32.8 0.95 5.5 0.349 38.8-8.24i 13.12 25.68-8.24i 33.8 0.82 6 0.382 37.9-37.99i 13.16 24.74-37.99i 34.7 0.71 6.5 0.414 37.1-6.86i 13.22 23.88-6.86i 35.6 0.60 7 0.446 36.5-6.18i 13.3 23.2-6.18i 36.4 0.50 7.5 0.479 36-5.5i 13.4 22.6-5.5i 37.2 0.41 8 0.511 35.6-4.82i 13.52 22.08-4.82i 38.0 0.32 8.5 0.543 35.3-4.16i 13.67 21.63-4.16i 38.8 0.23 9 0.576 35-3.5i 13.83 21.17-3.5i 39.5 0.15 9.5 0.608 34.9-2.86i 14.02 20.88-2.86i 40.2 0.07 10 0.640 34.9-2.24i 14.24 20.66-2.24i 40.9 0.00 Article: 228458 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 18 Aug 2006 13:02:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1155931359.841721.300500@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> From: Al Klein on Thurs, Aug 17 2006 6:46 pm >On 17 Aug 2006 15:26:18 -0700, "LenAnder...@ieee.org" > wrote: > >> Let's reprise. First you state that capacitors were never >> color coded. > >No, first YOU misunderstood "didn't escape being color coded" as >meaning "didn't get color coded". What is to "misunderstand?" Brian Burke wrote in that fashion, perhaps too colloquially for your absolutely-literal standards of English, but it was perfectly clear to most readers here. >Then you tried to weasel out of >looking like the ass you are by looking even more stupid. Trying to insult those who challenge your "knowledge" of electronic components isn't going to win you any points. The FACT is that capacitors and axial-lead inductors have been color-coded for decades. That can be verified by looking at component manufacturers' catalogs and several textbooks (even going back to the ITT "Green Bible" of the 50s) as well as the ARRL Handbooks (several years worth). You call that "stupid?" I wouldn't. Any self-respecting worker who has been in electronics for years wouldn't. Had you wanted to be "civil" about it, you could have simply acknowledged your mistake, stopped trying to build a Mt. Everest out of a teaspoon of sand, and gone on with life. You did not. You have MANUFACTURED a dispute, insulted your challengers, and implied a number of things, all without any referencible data. Your definition of "stupidity" seems to be that of ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH YOU or one who DOES NOT HONOR AND BOW-DOWN TO YOUR SUPPOSED MAJESTY AS AN AMATEUR. Unfortunately, those "definitions" seem endemic to pro-coders, those who insist on keeping a morse code test for amateur radio into the far future. That viewpoint is entirely EMOTIONAL based on your own experiences, has no validity in the supposed "necessity" of keeping that morse code test in USA amateur radio licensing. "You did it so everyone else has to..." That's a selfish, self-righteous viewpoint in my opinion. It confuses the actual necessities of a government regulating agency trying to mitigate many, many users of the civil radio spectrum with some fraternal-organization in-house "rules" of just one radio service out of many, "rules" that were established decades ago. You cannot support your "cause" with anything but throwing personal insults at your challengers. You have already LOST your arguments concerning the morse code test issue. You win NOTHING except in your imagination. It is even worse, perhaps sociopathic in that over-the-top self-righteousness, to claim you are a "better human being" just for having taken a morse code test...as an AMATEUR. You seem to look down your royal nose at all who wish to remove the code test from amateur radio licensing. Especially so when you cannot establish your bona fides of "long-term experience" supposedly in radio beyond amateur activities. >You're not worth my time. Obviously not, "your majesty." :-) Here's a suggestion: Drop the "outraged" act and start thinking about the SUBJECT, not your own emotionalism. One good way to make you feel better to yourself is to find a morsemanship-support group. Such a group can sit around and praise one another. Makes all in the group warm and fuzzy holding the same opinion. Its also a way to hold off the future and any changes in regulations, but only within your own fantasies. An alternative is to just LEAVE rec.radio.amateur.policy. Few in here see you as the Final Arbiter of what is "good" and what is "bad" in amateurism. Leave or stay. Your choice. Matters not to me. Government will continue - in a democratic-process fashion - to serve ALL citizens, not just one group of radio spectrum users. A group, I might add, that is a distinct MINORITY of all radio users. Think on that. [few pro-coders do] LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 228459 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 18 Aug 2006 13:14:30 -0700 Message-ID: <1155932070.166805.39250@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1155265525.310166.4760@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> an old friend wrote: > LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > > From: Al Klein on Wed, Aug 16 2006 6:15 pm > > > > >On 15 Aug 2006 23:21:32 -0700, "LenAnder...@ieee.org" > > > wrote: > > >>From: Al Klein on Tues, Aug 15 2006 5:35 am > > >>Groups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, rec.radio.amateur.policy, > > >>rec.radio.scanner, rec.radio.swap > > >>> wrote: > > >>>>From: Al Klein on Sun, Aug 13 2006 9:15 pm > > >>>>>On 12 Aug 2006 18:58:18 -0700, "an old friend" wrote: > > >>>>>>hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com wrote: > > >>>>>>> How did capacitors escape getting color coded? > > >>>>>>ssshhhhh bb don't ask such questions please > > > > > >>>>>Since a) you don't know the answer and b) they didn't. > > > > > >>>> Klein, you said you were an OF. Any olde-fahrt ought to KNOW that > > >>>> silver-mica capacitors were color-dot-coded for about a quarter > > >>>> century. [look in the 1976 ARRL Handbook] Those flat cases > > >>>> were eventually displaced by dipped silver-mica. > > > > > >>>> Paper tubular capacitors in molded plastic tubular casings were > > >>>> marked with color bands and were on the market for at least > > >>>> 15 years, maybe 20...until aced out by ceramic disc capacitors > > >>>> for general bypassing and coupling applications (by both tube > > >>>> and transistor architecture electronics). > > > > > >>>> ANYONE with hands-on experience in electronics between 1950 > > >>>> and about 1970 would KNOW that. [okay, folks, looks like > > >>>> there's another imposter here...at least this one isn't > > >>>> trying to pass hisself off as some marine NCO...:-) > > > > > >>>Try reading what I wrote. > > > > > >> Tsk, Klein, you don't write enough to read. > > > > > >I'm not the one who misread "capacitors didn't *ESCAPE* getting color > > >coded" for "capacitors didn't *GET* color coded" - YOU DID! > > > > Nice attempt at misdirection, but a very old technique. :-) > > > > That sort of misdirection is puerile (meaning childish). > > If you have some bona fides on English grammar and some > > false idea that ALL must be literal with NO departure from > > such literalness, please state them. Otherwise go into > > auto-fornication mode since we ain't buyin that, homie. :-) > > > > Let's reprise. First you state that capacitors were never > > color coded. You got called on that and corrected by more > > than myself. Secondly, you've never admitted being wrong or > > corrected. Third, you try to (badly) convince others that > > those who corrected your statement are "wrong" or "at fault." > > > > Amazing. You make mistakes and then try to convince all that > > those mistakes never happened or that it is "wrong" to try to > > correct your mistakes! :-) > > who that we know does that Sound Like Len > > remind you of a certain exMarine we know and loathe It's a "sort-of" reminder, Mark, but let's clear up something: I don't personally "loathe" this "exmarine." That person isn't worth much in here, always insulting those who just disagree with his viewpoint. It's not possible to have any sort of dialogue with Major Dud. :-) It's pretty much the same with all the self-righteous, ultra- conservative (about the code test) pro-coders. Sigh. As to Klein, all he seems to want in here is to FIGHT. In that regard he is a clone of Robeson and first cousin to several others in here. He is too haughty to correspond with anyone who disagrees with him. Perhaps someone once jammed an IC above his arm? He has been going around "with a chip on his 'shoulder'" ever since... :-) LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 228460 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Frank's" Subject: 9 m Monopole Analysis Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 20:17:48 GMT Reg: Here is the results of my analysis of a 99 radial monople: Height 9 m, radial length from 0.5 to 10m, all conductors #14 AWG copper, ground Er = 16, resistivity 150 ohm - m. Radials 25 mm below ground. Antenna efficiency includes the surface wave. Radial Radial Radiation Ant Length Z Resistance Efficiency (m) (ohms) (ohms) (%) 0.5 63.0 - j 33.6 13.2 17.6 1.0 47.7 - j 18.2 13.2 21.7 1.5 41.8 - j 13.7 13.2 24.1 2.0 38.3 - j 12.5 13.2 25.7 2.5 35.7 - j 11.2 13.2 27.1 3.0 33.4 - j 10.8 13.2 28.3 3.5 31.6 - j 10.5 13.1 29.4 4.0 29.8 - j 10.1 13.1 30.6 4.5 28.2 - j 9.5 13.1 31.7 5.0 26.8 - j 8.9 13.1 32.8 5.5 25.7 - j 8.2 13.1 33.8 6.0 24.7 - j 8.0 13.2 34.7 6.5 23.9 - j 6.9 13.2 35.6 7.0 23.2 - j 6.2 13.3 36.4 7.5 22.6 - j 5.5 13.4 37.7 8.0 22.1 - j 4.8 13.5 38.0 8.5 21.6 - j 4.2 13.7 38.8 9.0 21.2 - j 3.5 13.8 39.5 9.5 20.9 - j 2.9 14.0 40.2 10.0 20.7 - j 2.2 14.2 40.9 Note that the radiation resistance is computed >from the total radiated power (including surface wave) divided by the RMS base current squared. The radial input impedance is derived from the difference between the antenna input impedance and the radiation resistance. A fraction of an ohm can be attributed to the copper losses in the monopole. Also some of the imaginary part of the radial impedance must be due, in part, to the input impedance of the vertical section. With 0.5 m radials the surface wave accounts for 2% of the total radiated power. With 10 m radials the surface wave accounts for 5% of the TRP. Frank CM Reg's 99 radial Vertical CM (WG) CE GW 2 1 0 0 0 0 0.0968 -0.025 0.00082 GW 35 4 0 0.0968 -0.025 0.026 0.5 -0.025 0.00082 GW 70 4 0 0.0968 -0.025 0 0.5 -0.025 0.00082 GW 105 4 0 0.0968 -0.025 -0.026 0.5 -0.025 0.00082 GR 1 33 GE -1 2 GN 2 0 0 0 16 0.0067 FR 0 1 0 0 8.07 0.01 LD 5 0 0 0 5.8001E7 WG EN CM Reg's 99 radial CM (GF) CE GF GW 1 90 0 0 9 0 0 0 0.00082 GE -1 EX 0 1 90 00 83.83328192 0 LD 5 0 0 0 5.8001E7 RP 1 101 1 0000 200 0 -2 1 200 RP 0 91 1 1000 0 0 1 1 RP 0 19 73 1002 -90 0 5.00000 5.00000 NE 1 1 46 1 200 45 90 1.0 1.0 1 NH 1 1 1 1 200 89 90 1.0 1.0 1 EN Article: 228461 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Michael Coslo Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:28:26 -0400 Message-ID: References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> <99rbe2hg9fhpvjoc01mkrtkl9d5hv9emk0@4ax.com> Richard Clark wrote: > On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:43:34 -0400, Michael Coslo > wrote: > >> I find the topic interesting, and certainly the feedback I've gotten >>from Richard and Roy have been very illuminating. So I encourage more on >> the topic. >> > > Hi Mike, > > Going further, as you encouraged, you can observe the caged concept > applied to the Discone antenna at: > http://www.qsl.net/kb7qhc/antenna/Discone/discone.htm Fascinating, and thank you! The discone and the Smith charts for it are a great graphic tool. I note that your webpage is also featured in Wikipedia. > This also shows how well 16 wires approximate a solid, and further, it > also shows how the geometry of the apex angle affects the matching > characteristics. This is shown in 7 Smith charts where that angle > varies from 20° to 90°. > Upon close examination, it appears I report the wrong interval of > frequency sweep as every 0.5 MHz. Certainly the range covers 1 to 30 > MHz for them all, but it would appear that I shift to every 0.25 MHz > for 50° through 90°. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 228462 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim Kelley Subject: Re: VHF/UHF antenna on a motorcycle Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:31:51 -0700 Message-ID: References: Hi Tom, You might want to try an HT antenna, such as the RH77CA - about 38 CM long. 73, ac6xg Tom wrote: > Hello all , > > I would like to install a VHF-UHF antenna on my motorcycle . It's a Suzuki > GSX750 . I did some tests with a Diamond NR-770H and it works well . The > only problem is that the antenna is to big for such a bike . > Afterwards i did a test with a Diamond NR-77 . The antenna is about 43 cm > and that's about the size i would like to use . > The problem i have with this antenna is the swr , it's to high . > > Anyone an idea how i can solve this problem ? > > Many thanks . > > Tom > > > Article: 228463 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: 9 m Monopole Analysis Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:42:17 -0700 Message-ID: <12ecgid65q8rl39@corp.supernews.com> References: I'm curious: How did you calculate the total radiated power including surface wave, and how did you determine what fraction of the radiated power is in the surface wave? Roy Lewallen, W7EL Frank's wrote: > . . . > Note that the radiation resistance is computed > from the total radiated power (including surface > wave) divided by the RMS base current squared. > . . . Article: 228464 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: license renewal Date: 18 Aug 2006 16:00:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1155942039.645138.164160@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: From: Pin-medic on Fri, Aug 18 2006 10:30 am >I agree Bob, and maybe we'd have better operators as a result. Considering >the waning interest in our dying hobby though, all that would probably do is >eliminate even more operators from the ranks, leading the FCC to reduce our >bands even more by selling them to the highest bidder. 1. The FCC has NOT "reduced 'your' bands," nor is it somehow threatening to "sell them" to anyone. Had you bothered to look at this process of AUCTIONING certain COMMERCIAL bands and the Congressional laws establishing it, you would have seen that it does NOT apply to radio amateurs. 2. Since WARC-79 'you' have gotten MORE BANDS and that has increased up to a few years ago when 'you' got the five 60m channels. 3. There doesn't seem to be any "waning interest" in USA amateur radio considering the overall licensee numbers. The newcomer licensees are - just managing - to keep the licensee numbers in numeric bouyancy, almost keeping pace with those letting their licenses lapse. See www.hamdata. com FCC data page. 4. "Dying hobby" must be entirely subjective since there is no real sign that amateur radio equipment and supplies companies are closing down nor has the ARRL threatened to dissolve their $15M per annum profit publishing business. Since 1990 three INDEPENDENT amateur radio publications have ceased, primarily due to lack of advertising revenue, NOT for interest in the hobby. >Ham radio was so much better back in the late 70's, when I first became >licensed. People were polite, and the radio had a mystique to it. I find that highly subjective, primarily in comparison to the times of the mid-50s. Let's look at the "mystique" of the late 1970s insofar as radio communications are concerned: 1. Communications satellites were well-established for international video-audio relay with thousands of circuits for voice and data. More would come in the next three decades until the geosynchronous orbit positions were filled before the 1990s were over. 2. HF spectrum users, the majority being commercial- government prior to the 1970s, were LEAVING HF for more reliable 24/7 circuit throughput IN the beginning of the 1970s. The peak use of HF occurred during the mid- 1950s to 1960. 3. Tens of thousands of radio communications licensees (with all their users and equipment) were ALREADY up and communicating from low-VHF on up. That would continue to grow in the next three decades until the FCC and NTIA had to expand the VHF-and-up spectrum for such radio services as PLMRS (Private Land Mobile Radio Services), maritime radio (for private boat owners and inland-waterway and harbor comms). 4. MILLIONS of Citizen Band radios existed, CB (on HF) was created in 1958, two decades before the late-1970s. Licensing of CB had been dropped and the off-shore radio makers had established themselves in the radio market, including CB. 5. "Radio" was KNOWN to the general public as a means to communicate and had been known for decades. "Known" in a sense beyond the obvious of TV and AM and FM broadcasting and international telecasts. The public did NOT "know" that morse code modes were used except perhaps for watching the last of the "Westerns" on TV and old WW2 movies. 6. In the mid-1950s the BIG communicators on HF were already in a process of change of mode. Teleprinter data was the overwhelming majority mode for written communications for commercial and government users of the ONLY long-haul comm circuits. Microwave radio relay for both short and long distances on land had already begun. Only the maritime world held to their morse code modes with, rarely, voice on AM. 7. In the late 1970s 'you' already had solid-state HF radios (transmitters barely reaching 100 W PEP) with the beginnings of synthesized frequencies. VFOs, now reliable and stable, were a standard feature for frequency control. In the mid-1950s frequency control of the then-standard tube type radios was essentially one-crystal/one-frequency type unless one could afford a very expensive (then) "Collins" (or equivalent) manufactured radio. 8. The Semiconductor Era had already begun in ALL of electronics and new techniques and methods were the order of the day in comparison to the limitations of tube architecture in the mid-1950s. In that regard, there IS a "mystique." I would state that a vast cornucopia of things were suddenly opened by the many-plateau advances in electronics technology, sometimes happening at a rate of advancement that was near overwhelming. Having been a part of the electronics industry for 53 years I not only saw it but was immersed in it, doing it while keeping up with it. >With the >internet and the immediate gratification that everyone seems to expect these >days, Ham Radio is undesirable; having to hunt for contacts when you can >just IM someone? Having to work for a license? Not anymore, no one wants to >put any effort into anything when they have an easier alternative. Unless there has been some "stealth" action of government to redefine FCC rules, amateur radio has ALWAYS been considered a non-commercial AVOCATION. It is a HOBBY without having to be stated as such in Parts 1 and 97 of Title 47 C.F.R. There is NO legal necessity to "WORK" for a hobby pursuit, is there? Absolutely YES, I will opt for an "easier alternative" to ANYTHING! When I began in Big-Time HF radio communications, the "easier alternative" ALREADY existed in the products of Teletype Corporation. The teleprinter had already displaced manual morse code modes for the majority of messaging even before WW2 (in business and government and the military). So, if 'we' all do this 'work' thing, who is going to give 'us' this permission to exist on the same planet as all you extras? Would 'we' be FIRED if 'we' didn't 'work?" [delusions of Donald Trump there?] Ah..."not enough EFFORT being put forth" by us not-licensed- in-the-AMATEUR-radio-service? Right...some of us have been professionals in radio and electronics for decades, WITHOUT any morsemanship tests! Even though we've put our own time into keeping up with radio and electronics for all those decades (without renumeration for those efforts), that isn't good enough for you? Here, have a [rude Italian hand gesture] The FCC was NEVER chartered as an academic institution and those valued [suitable for framing] licenses are NOT "grades earned" (after all that 'work'). The job of the FCC is just regulate, mitigate ALL civil radio in the USA. Mere 'tenure' as a radio amateur does NOT make someone better nor does all the snarling about "nobody wants to 'work' for their license" change anything. You want the US amateur radio regulations to FREEZE in those old days ways? Fine, send in your proposal to the FCC and tell them why it should remain in the freezer. They MUST, by law, examine ALL proposals submitted by citizens. [I wouldn't expect that they actually put forth an NPRM on keeping regs on ice, but they WILL look at it] >Unfortunately, the good old days are gone, and ham radio is in the sunset of >its existence. 1. Take your sunglasses off or step out from behind the curtains. It is a BRIGHT day with sun HIGH in the sky for amateur radio...unless you are one of the olde- tymers who refuse to acknowledge change. 2. There exist new medications that can alleviate depression and, perhaps, a feeling of ennui. See your doctor about that. 3. "The good old days are gone?" THANK GOD! I was IN those 'good old days' and am damn glad that radio and electronics has improved, gotten easier, enabled us (except morsemen) to do more and better things! I look FORWARD to each and every improvement that makes things EASIER! I've already done lots of things with lots of personal labor and I sincerely APPRECIATE whatever labor-saving, work-saving things that are available now. Hey, if you WORK real hard, study real hard, maybe you can come up with a TIME MACHINE! Yeah, right, it could take you back to those "good old days" that you seem to like so much. Like back to a time when "ham" was a pejorative expressed by professional morsemen? :-) LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 228465 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:08:29 -0700 Message-ID: <12eci3hqcduoac7@corp.supernews.com> References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> <54adnaK0vIfWb3jZRVnyvA@bt.com> This can be done with any EZNEC program type, including the demo: 1. Click Open. 2. Select BYDipole.EZ and click Open in the file selection dialog box. 3. Click SWR. Enter 14 for the start frequency, 15 for the stop frequency, and .05 for the frequency step. Click Run. 4. Using the arrow keys or the mouse, move the cursor in the SWR display to the points where SWR is about 2. These are about 14.1 and 14.75 MHz, indicating a 2:1 SWR bandwidth of about 650 kHz. 5. Click Wires in the main window to open the Wires Window. 6. In the Diameter column, change the Diameter from #12 to 6 to represent a 6 inch diameter cage. (Don't put a "#" in front of the 6.) Press the Enter key to finalize the change. 7. Click SWR. Change the start frequency from 14 to 13 and click Run. 8. In the SWR display, move the cursor as before, and note that the 2:1 SWR bandwidth is now about 1.35 MHz, about twice what it was for the original antenna made from #12 wire. Now you're a Reg-certified expert, even if that took you a month of Sundays to do. You can also get a great deal of additional information from EZNEC, such as the feedpoint impedance and SWR at any frequency, the pattern, and effect of height and ground characteristics. If that took you a month of Sundays, you might think a bit about what's reduced your capabilities to that level. Roy Lewallen, W7EL -- Certified by Reg as both Old Wife and Expert! Reg Edwards wrote: > It takes a month of Sundays for an expert to enter and interpret the > input/output data of a cage dipole using an Eznec-type program. > . . . Article: 228466 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: Subject: Re: 9 m Monopole Analysis Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 00:35:57 +0100 Message-ID: Frank, You don't mention frequency. I assume it is still 8.07 MHz. There's something seriously wrong! The only change you have made (or I think you have changed) is to increase the number of radials from 36 to 99. Yet, for a length of 10 metres, the resistance of the radials ground connection has INCREASED from a few ohms (for 36 radials) to 20.7 ohms (for 99 radials). This is impossible! It should either decrease to an even lower value or at least remain the same. Although I am not particularly interested in radiation resistance, there is also something seriously wrong with Rrad. Rrad for a 1/4-wave vertical ought to be in the region of 34 ohms - not as low as 13 ohms. I think you use Rrad to calculate radials input resistance in which I AM very interested. I think you subtract the antenna input impedance, from the total impedance of antenna + radials, to obtain the radials input resistance. Rrad + conductor resistance is the feedpoint resistance of the antenna. You make it about 34 - 13 = 21 ohms too low. If you subtract 21 ohms from YOUR radials input resistance values, then the EXPECTED very low input resistance values for 99 radials are obtained. But, of course, the radials input resistance should never become negative. If you are unable to find where the error arises then use my value of Antenna Feedpoint Resistance = 33.8 ohms (which I have just calculated.) Could you please investigate your results and apply corrections? If you are unable to determine the resonant input resistance of the 9-metre vertical antenna ( jX = 0) then use my value of 33.8 ohms which, as likely as not, will not be exactly correct. ...................................................................... ................................ Then change antenna height to exactly 3 metres and change frequency to about 25 MHz. The exact frequency being that at which the antenna is 1/4-wave resonant with the feedpoint reactance being zero. Repeat measurements for 99 radials. Such measurements will be far more accurate than if they were made in the field. I have some nice graphs of input impedance, R + jX, versus radial length for work you have already done. They tell me quite a lot. ---- Reg. ======================================= > Reg: > > Here is the results of my analysis of a 99 radial monople: > Height 9 m, radial length from 0.5 to 10m, all conductors > #14 AWG copper, ground Er = 16, resistivity 150 ohm - m. > Radials 25 mm below ground. Antenna efficiency includes > the surface wave. > > Radial Radial Radiation Ant > Length Z Resistance Efficiency > (m) (ohms) (ohms) (%) > > 0.5 63.0 - j 33.6 13.2 17.6 > 1.0 47.7 - j 18.2 13.2 21.7 > 1.5 41.8 - j 13.7 13.2 24.1 > 2.0 38.3 - j 12.5 13.2 25.7 > 2.5 35.7 - j 11.2 13.2 27.1 > 3.0 33.4 - j 10.8 13.2 28.3 > 3.5 31.6 - j 10.5 13.1 29.4 > 4.0 29.8 - j 10.1 13.1 30.6 > 4.5 28.2 - j 9.5 13.1 31.7 > 5.0 26.8 - j 8.9 13.1 32.8 > 5.5 25.7 - j 8.2 13.1 33.8 > 6.0 24.7 - j 8.0 13.2 34.7 > 6.5 23.9 - j 6.9 13.2 35.6 > 7.0 23.2 - j 6.2 13.3 36.4 > 7.5 22.6 - j 5.5 13.4 37.7 > 8.0 22.1 - j 4.8 13.5 38.0 > 8.5 21.6 - j 4.2 13.7 38.8 > 9.0 21.2 - j 3.5 13.8 39.5 > 9.5 20.9 - j 2.9 14.0 40.2 > 10.0 20.7 - j 2.2 14.2 40.9 > > Note that the radiation resistance is computed > from the total radiated power (including surface > wave) divided by the RMS base current squared. > > The radial input impedance is derived from > the difference between the antenna input > impedance and the radiation resistance. A > fraction of an ohm can be attributed to the > copper losses in the monopole. Also > some of the imaginary part of the radial impedance > must be due, in part, to the input impedance > of the vertical section. > > With 0.5 m radials the surface wave accounts for > 2% of the total radiated power. With 10 m radials > the surface wave accounts for 5% of the TRP. > > > Frank > CM Reg's 99 radial Vertical > > CM (WG) > > CE > > GW 2 1 0 0 0 0 0.0968 -0.025 0.00082 > > GW 35 4 0 0.0968 -0.025 0.026 0.5 -0.025 0.00082 > > GW 70 4 0 0.0968 -0.025 0 0.5 -0.025 0.00082 > > GW 105 4 0 0.0968 -0.025 -0.026 0.5 -0.025 0.00082 > > GR 1 33 > > GE -1 2 > > GN 2 0 0 0 16 0.0067 > > FR 0 1 0 0 8.07 0.01 > > LD 5 0 0 0 5.8001E7 > > WG > > EN > > > > CM Reg's 99 radial > > CM (GF) > > CE > > GF > > GW 1 90 0 0 9 0 0 0 0.00082 > > GE -1 > > EX 0 1 90 00 83.83328192 0 > > LD 5 0 0 0 5.8001E7 > > RP 1 101 1 0000 200 0 -2 1 200 > > RP 0 91 1 1000 0 0 1 1 > > RP 0 19 73 1002 -90 0 5.00000 5.00000 > > NE 1 1 46 1 200 45 90 1.0 1.0 1 > > NH 1 1 1 1 200 89 90 1.0 1.0 1 > > EN > > Article: 228467 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Rayburn" References: Subject: Re: license renewal Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 20:48:08 -0400 Message-ID: Will give it to a buddy across town. "Slow Code" wrote in message news:I0sFg.5553$Sn3.944@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net... > "Rayburn" wrote in > news:a2b40$44e27421$8b371664$17268@ALLTEL.NET: > >> Just the excuse I need to let my "CODED" extra ticket go lapse....with >> stupid fucking assholes like slow code only on the bands then who in >> their right fucking mind would want to talk to the lowlife cocksuckers? >> >> 30 wpm with ease! >> >> RAYBURN > > > > Will we see your equipment on eBay, or are you gonna take it > to a pawn shop? > > SC Article: 228468 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Frank's" References: <12ecgid65q8rl39@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: 9 m Monopole Analysis Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 00:52:40 GMT Roy, I use a couple of methods. First, the RP card as follows: RP 0 19 73 1002 -90 0 5.0 5.0 Where, the last digit of "XNDA" is "2", and the average gain is calculated providing the following output: AVERAGE POWER GAIN= 3.00224E-01 SOLID ANGLE USED IN AVERAGING=( 2.0000)*PI STERADIANS. POWER RADIATED ASSUMING RADIATION INTO 4*PI STERADIANS = 1.15944E+01 WATTS The input power for this particular test was 38.619 W. As a verification I numerically integrate (Excel) the total radiated E-field over a hemispherical region. The elemental area I use is r^2*sine(theta)*d(theta)*d(phi). Of course the E field is normalized to 1 m, and "r" is obviously "1". d(phi), and d(theta) are both one degree. The results are in very close agreement with the radiation, as above, in 4*PI Steradians/2. I therefore have a fairly accurate figure for the total radiated power without the surface wave. For the next step I use the following RP card: RP 1 101 1 0000 200 0 -2 1 200. The problem is, of course, that the results are only available in cylindrical coordinates. Where the total ground wave, and sky wave, is computed in the far field (Where I have taken the far field to be 200 meters at 8 MHz) >from Z = 200 to Z = 0, in steps of 2 meters (From theta(zenith) 45 to 90). I then normalize these data to a radial distance of 1 m; taking only those data points close to (theta) integral degrees. Picking out these data points, taken from the NEC output file, in Excel is a fairly tedious process. I then "cut and paste" these normalized data into my "integrating" Excel spread sheet; replacing the previously computed "sky wave" data from 45 to 90 degrees. These results then give me the total radiated power, including the surface wave. I can then easily compute the contribution, to the total radiated power, by the surface wave. When I replace the data, in the integrating spread sheet, the data at 44 degrees is very close to the 45 degree field strength, obtained >from the cylindrical coordinates. Hope you managed to follow my rambling description. To say the least it requires a lot of tedious data manipulation with Excel. If you are interested I can e-mail my spread sheets, NEC input and output files, etc. Regards, Frank (VE6CB) "Roy Lewallen" wrote in message news:12ecgid65q8rl39@corp.supernews.com... > I'm curious: How did you calculate the total radiated power including > surface wave, and how did you determine what fraction of the radiated > power is in the surface wave? > > Roy Lewallen, W7EL > > Frank's wrote: >> . . . >> Note that the radiation resistance is computed >> from the total radiated power (including surface >> wave) divided by the RMS base current squared. >> . . . Article: 228469 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: 18 Aug 2006 17:56:04 -0700 Message-ID: <1155948964.809708.129860@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <2D6Dg.7768$FN2.1842@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > Had you wanted to be "civil" about it, you could have simply > acknowledged your mistake, stopped trying to build a Mt. Everest > out of a teaspoon of sand, and gone on with life. You did not. > You have MANUFACTURED a dispute, insulted your challengers, and > implied a number of things, all without any referencible data. Very Robesonesque. Article: 228470 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "lu6etj" Subject: Vertical radiation from horizontal dipole? Date: 18 Aug 2006 17:56:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1155949003.609701.39890@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Dear friends: Could you give me me a link to some reference material (in the net) about vertical polarized radiation of horizontal dipoles near ground? (not feed line radiation).. Thank yoy very much in advance. Miguel Ghezzi (LU 6ETJ) Article: 228471 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bill Subject: Johnson KW Matchbox Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 21:03:31 -0400 Will a 50ohm to 112ohm unun current balun on the input side of the matchbox increase the output capability to handle an open wire fed 80meter dipole at 65' on 40meters? I am 'kinda' stuck with my feedline length of 80ft, so thought I would raise the input impedance to boost the output impedance capability. I am aiming for a 1 to 1 'indicated' VSWR. The differential cap is fully meshed (rotor to top plates) and the other cap is approx 50% meshed and the matchbox input VSWR is approx 2 to 1. What say? Article: 228472 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "2greedy" <2greedy@gmail.com> References: Subject: Re: license renewal Message-ID: <_CtFg.14265$rP1.13027@news-server.bigpond.net.au> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 01:15:38 GMT think yaself lucky m8! here in oz it is $57 a year!!!!!!!!!!!! "Tom" wrote in message news:fKqdnSuydLl_cXzZnZ2dnUVZ_oqdnZ2d@insightbb.com... > My license is up for renewal in November. I got a letter from an outfit in > Texas wanting $7 to renew it. I thought one could renew their license for > free over the internet. > Article: 228473 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Robert J Mitchell" References: Subject: Re: VHF/UHF antenna on a motorcycle Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:18:53 +0930 Message-ID: <44e66e04_1@news.iprimus.com.au> As a long time m/c rider I suggest ride to live and stuff radio....concentration being the key word mate !! "Jim Kelley" wrote in message news:ec5alo$89j$1@news.service.uci.edu... > Hi Tom, > > You might want to try an HT antenna, such as the RH77CA - about 38 CM > long. > > 73, ac6xg > > > > > Tom wrote: >> Hello all , >> >> I would like to install a VHF-UHF antenna on my motorcycle . It's a >> Suzuki >> GSX750 . I did some tests with a Diamond NR-770H and it works well . The >> only problem is that the antenna is to big for such a bike . >> Afterwards i did a test with a Diamond NR-77 . The antenna is about 43 cm >> and that's about the size i would like to use . >> The problem i have with this antenna is the swr , it's to high . >> >> Anyone an idea how i can solve this problem ? >> >> Many thanks . >> >> Tom >> >> >> > Article: 228474 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> <54adnaK0vIfWb3jZRVnyvA@bt.com> <12eci3hqcduoac7@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 03:15:07 +0100 Message-ID: Dear Roy, But the subject matter is Cage Dipoles. How many man-hours would it take a novice to enter into Eznec, two, in line with each other, spaced apart, cylindrical cages, 2-feet in diameter consisting of 32, 14-gauge wires, with 4 end rings, with time required to diagnose and eliminate the dozen or more bugs which are sure to be introduced. That is, of course, if the free version will accept such an input. We will forget the 10-day induction course. How long would it take an expert like yourself to enter and fully analyse such a dipole. Bear in mind you would have to enter dipoles consisting of 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 and 64 wires, plus end rings, of say 4 different wire gauges. And obtain the resonant frequencies, input impedances and SWRs of all possible combinations. You will say Eznec is probably more accurate. But DIPCAGE2 will do the same job in a few minutes with an accuracy quite good enough for the intended purpose. CB-ers can use it. With Eznec, before the job was finished I would have forgotten what it was all about, strayed off course and ventured into magloops. To keep you happy, I will repeat what I have said before and say that Eznec does an excellent job in those tasks for which it is primarily intended. What better compliment? I am not in competition with you. ---- Reg, G4FGQ. ======================================= "Roy Lewallen" wrote > This can be done with any EZNEC program type, including the demo: > > 1. Click Open. > 2. Select BYDipole.EZ and click Open in the file selection dialog box. > 3. Click SWR. Enter 14 for the start frequency, 15 for the stop > frequency, and .05 for the frequency step. Click Run. > 4. Using the arrow keys or the mouse, move the cursor in the SWR display > to the points where SWR is about 2. These are about 14.1 and 14.75 MHz, > indicating a 2:1 SWR bandwidth of about 650 kHz. > 5. Click Wires in the main window to open the Wires Window. > 6. In the Diameter column, change the Diameter from #12 to 6 to > represent a 6 inch diameter cage. (Don't put a "#" in front of the 6.) > Press the Enter key to finalize the change. > 7. Click SWR. Change the start frequency from 14 to 13 and click Run. > 8. In the SWR display, move the cursor as before, and note that the 2:1 > SWR bandwidth is now about 1.35 MHz, about twice what it was for the > original antenna made from #12 wire. > > Now you're a Reg-certified expert, even if that took you a month of > Sundays to do. > > You can also get a great deal of additional information from EZNEC, such > as the feedpoint impedance and SWR at any frequency, the pattern, and > effect of height and ground characteristics. > > If that took you a month of Sundays, you might think a bit about what's > reduced your capabilities to that level. > > Roy Lewallen, W7EL > -- Certified by Reg as both Old Wife and Expert! > > Reg Edwards wrote: > > It takes a month of Sundays for an expert to enter and interpret the > > input/output data of a cage dipole using an Eznec-type program. > > . . . Article: 228475 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Johnson KW Matchbox References: Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 03:05:05 GMT Bill wrote: > Will a 50ohm to 112ohm unun current balun on the input side of the > matchbox increase the output capability to handle an open wire fed > 80meter dipole at 65' on 40meters? I am 'kinda' stuck with my feedline > length of 80ft, so thought I would raise the input impedance to boost > the output impedance capability. I am aiming for a 1 to 1 'indicated' > VSWR. The differential cap is fully meshed (rotor to top plates) and the > other cap is approx 50% meshed and the matchbox input VSWR is approx 2 > to 1. What say? My notuner antenna at http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/notuner.htm is pretty close to what you have. Increasing your feedline length to 94-100 ft. might solve your problem without the unun. The unun actually could make the problem worse since you don't know if that 2:1 SWR is 100 ohms or 25 ohms or something in between with reactance. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 228476 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Vertical radiation from horizontal dipole? Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 20:44:28 -0700 Message-ID: <12ed290mv4kekea@corp.supernews.com> References: <1155949003.609701.39890@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> I don't have any link handy, but it's easy to explain. Ground isn't necessary. Consider a horizontal dipole in free space. Position yourself directly in line with the antenna, some distance away, so all you see of the antenna is a dot. Now, move directly upward or downward. The antenna now looks like a vertical line(*). The radiation >from the antenna at the point where you are is purely vertically polarized, for the same reason it's purely horizontally polarized when you're directly broadside to the antenna. The only directions in which the dipole will radiate a purely horizontally polarized signal are in the horizontal plane of the antenna, or exactly at right angles (broadside) to the antenna. In the vertical plane containing the antenna, it's purely vertically polarized. In all other directions, it's a combination of the two. (In other words, the polarization angle of the total field is neither vertical nor horizontal.) Here's an illustration you can do with the demo version of EZNEC. Open the Dipole1.ez example file, which is a dipole in free space. In the main window, click the Desc Options line. In the Desc Options dialog box, select the Plot and Fields tabs if not already active, and select "Vert, Horiz" (not "Vert, Horiz, Total") in the Fields To Plot frame. Then click Ok to close the box. (Note: The "Vert, Horiz" option, without the "Total", isn't available in EZNEC v. 3.0, including EZNEC-ARRL.) The example file is set up to plot the pattern in the horizontal plane of the antenna. If you click FF Plot, you'll see only a horizontally polarized field. That's because the field is purely horizontally polarized in the horizontal plane of the antenna, as I mentioned earlier. The ends of the antenna are up and down on the plot, and broadside is to the left and right. Now in the main window, change the elevation angle to 45 degrees. Do this by clicking on the Elevation Angle line, entering 45 in the dialog box, then clicking Ok. This moves the observer above the horizontal plane of the antenna. The observation point (assumed very far from the antenna) follows a circle which is equidistant from the antenna and the horizontal plane containing the antenna. That is, it maintains a constant distance and an angle of 45 degrees above horizontal from the antenna. Click FF Plot to see the result. Now you can see that when you're directly broadside to the antenna (left and right on the plot), the field is purely horizontally polarized -- the vertical polarization component is zero. But directly in line with the ends of the antenna, the polarization is purely vertical. The top and bottom directions of the plot correspond to the position you were in when you saw the antenna as a vertical line. Vertically and horizontally polarized components reflect differently >from the ground. So in directions where both are present, one can be reinforced while the other is attenuated, resulting in a different mix after reflection. (But reflection won't change a horizontally polarized component to vertically polarized or vice-versa.) For example, a vertically polarized field reinforces when reflecting from a perfect ground at a low angle, while a horizontally polarized signal cancels. This ends up enhancing the vertically polarized component at low angles when both are present. (Remember, though, this is perfect ground -- real ground, except salt water, behaves quite differently.) Finally, let me emphasize that there's really only one E field from the antenna, with one polarization angle. Separating it into vertically and horizontally polarized components is simply a convenience used for calculations and as an aid in understanding, much like separating two currents into common and differential (even and odd) mode components. The principle of superposition allows us to conceptually split the field into components, analyze each separately, then recombine the results, getting the same answer we'd get if we had done the analysis on the total field. (*) More precisely, the projection of the antenna on a vertical plane passing through your position is a vertical line. Visually, you can't tell if the antenna is a short vertical wire or a longer horizontal one you're seeing end-on. The nature of the radiation in your direction is also the same for the two situations. Roy Lewallen, W7EL lu6etj wrote: > Dear friends: > > Could you give me me a link to some reference material (in the net) > about vertical polarized radiation of horizontal dipoles near ground? > (not feed line radiation).. > Thank yoy very much in advance. > > Miguel Ghezzi (LU 6ETJ) > Article: 228477 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jerry Martes" References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> <54adnaK0vIfWb3jZRVnyvA@bt.com> <12eci3hqcduoac7@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 04:16:53 GMT Hi Reg I sure dont mean to become involved with the discussion on Cage Dipoles, and which method of analyzing them, is better. I do want to give some data concerning the time needed to learn to use EZNEC. It isnt necessary to devote the time of a 10 day course in order to be able to get alot of good/valuable data from EZNEC. At Richard Clark's encouragement, I bought Roy's EZNEC program a couple weeks ago. I was able to get good data from the program that same day, The program is not mysterious. I write this post to make it clear that EZNEC can be learned quickly by anyone who trys, and can be learned in one day. I dont inply that I am a well qualified EZNEC operator, but I have learned so much about the antenna I am investigating that I really treasure this EZNEC program, and recommend it to any HAM who has interest in understanding antennas. Jerry "Reg Edwards" wrote in message news:zuWdnZ-qC40M6XvZnZ2dnUVZ8s2dnZ2d@bt.com... > Dear Roy, > > But the subject matter is Cage Dipoles. > > How many man-hours would it take a novice to enter into Eznec, two, in > line with each other, spaced apart, cylindrical cages, 2-feet in > diameter consisting of 32, 14-gauge wires, with 4 end rings, with time > required to diagnose and eliminate the dozen or more bugs which are > sure to be introduced. > > That is, of course, if the free version will accept such an input. > > We will forget the 10-day induction course. > > How long would it take an expert like yourself to enter and fully > analyse such a dipole. Bear in mind you would have to enter dipoles > consisting of 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 and 64 wires, plus end rings, of say 4 > different wire gauges. And obtain the resonant frequencies, input > impedances and SWRs of all possible combinations. > > You will say Eznec is probably more accurate. > > But DIPCAGE2 will do the same job in a few minutes with an accuracy > quite good enough for the intended purpose. CB-ers can use it. > > With Eznec, before the job was finished I would have forgotten what it > was all about, strayed off course and ventured into magloops. > > To keep you happy, I will repeat what I have said before and say that > Eznec does an excellent job in those tasks for which it is primarily > intended. What better compliment? I am not in competition with you. > ---- > Reg, G4FGQ. > ======================================= > > "Roy Lewallen" wrote >> This can be done with any EZNEC program type, including the demo: >> >> 1. Click Open. >> 2. Select BYDipole.EZ and click Open in the file selection dialog > box. >> 3. Click SWR. Enter 14 for the start frequency, 15 for the stop >> frequency, and .05 for the frequency step. Click Run. >> 4. Using the arrow keys or the mouse, move the cursor in the SWR > display >> to the points where SWR is about 2. These are about 14.1 and 14.75 > MHz, >> indicating a 2:1 SWR bandwidth of about 650 kHz. >> 5. Click Wires in the main window to open the Wires Window. >> 6. In the Diameter column, change the Diameter from #12 to 6 to >> represent a 6 inch diameter cage. (Don't put a "#" in front of the > 6.) >> Press the Enter key to finalize the change. >> 7. Click SWR. Change the start frequency from 14 to 13 and click > Run. >> 8. In the SWR display, move the cursor as before, and note that the > 2:1 >> SWR bandwidth is now about 1.35 MHz, about twice what it was for the >> original antenna made from #12 wire. >> >> Now you're a Reg-certified expert, even if that took you a month of >> Sundays to do. >> >> You can also get a great deal of additional information from EZNEC, > such >> as the feedpoint impedance and SWR at any frequency, the pattern, > and >> effect of height and ground characteristics. >> >> If that took you a month of Sundays, you might think a bit about > what's >> reduced your capabilities to that level. >> >> Roy Lewallen, W7EL >> -- Certified by Reg as both Old Wife and Expert! >> >> Reg Edwards wrote: >> > It takes a month of Sundays for an expert to enter and interpret > the >> > input/output data of a cage dipole using an Eznec-type program. >> > . . . > > Article: 228478 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Message-ID: References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> <54adnaK0vIfWb3jZRVnyvA@bt.com> <12eci3hqcduoac7@corp.supernews.com> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 04:44:20 GMT On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 04:16:53 GMT, "Jerry Martes" wrote: > Hi Reg > > I sure dont mean to become involved with the discussion on Cage Dipoles, >and which method of analyzing them, is better. > I do want to give some data concerning the time needed to learn to use >EZNEC. It isnt necessary to devote the time of a 10 day course in order to >be able to get alot of good/valuable data from EZNEC. > At Richard Clark's encouragement, I bought Roy's EZNEC program a couple >weeks ago. I was able to get good data from the program that same day, >The program is not mysterious. > I write this post to make it clear that EZNEC can be learned quickly by >anyone who trys, and can be learned in one day. I dont inply that I am a >well qualified EZNEC operator, but I have learned so much about the antenna >I am investigating that I really treasure this EZNEC program, and recommend >it to any HAM who has interest in understanding antennas. > > Jerry Jerry, The truth probably lies somewhere between your view and Reg's. Whilst you may have been able to construct a simple model in a very short time, being confident that you have a valid model on even modest antennas takes much more experience and knowledge. I think it is another of those cases where the more I learn, the less I know. You may find the same in time. Owen -- Article: 228479 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jerry Martes" References: <6o17e2der3uur6acf3e21lfc3iuafo8uka@4ax.com> <54adnaK0vIfWb3jZRVnyvA@bt.com> <12eci3hqcduoac7@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Caged Di-Pole Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 05:02:28 GMT "Owen Duffy" wrote in message news:kv4de2h1s9h433hptjtek466c45scq1pt1@4ax.com... > On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 04:16:53 GMT, "Jerry Martes" > wrote: > >> Hi Reg >> >> I sure dont mean to become involved with the discussion on Cage Dipoles, >>and which method of analyzing them, is better. >> I do want to give some data concerning the time needed to learn to use >>EZNEC. It isnt necessary to devote the time of a 10 day course in order >>to >>be able to get alot of good/valuable data from EZNEC. >> At Richard Clark's encouragement, I bought Roy's EZNEC program a couple >>weeks ago. I was able to get good data from the program that same day, >>The program is not mysterious. >> I write this post to make it clear that EZNEC can be learned quickly by >>anyone who trys, and can be learned in one day. I dont inply that I am a >>well qualified EZNEC operator, but I have learned so much about the >>antenna >>I am investigating that I really treasure this EZNEC program, and >>recommend >>it to any HAM who has interest in understanding antennas. >> >> Jerry > > Jerry, > > The truth probably lies somewhere between your view and Reg's. > > Whilst you may have been able to construct a simple model in a very > short time, being confident that you have a valid model on even modest > antennas takes much more experience and knowledge. > > I think it is another of those cases where the more I learn, the less > I know. You may find the same in time. > > Owen Hi Owen I am not qualified to comment on Reg's information on either computer programs or antennas in general. I am not far from being a beginer at antenna design by today's standards. But I was able to get decent data on a 4 dipole array circularly polarized array that requires some phasing of the dipoles. By my standards, that isnt a modest antenna. Richard Clark was god enough to give guidance and encouragement via E-mail. That may account for my being to get such good data on the first day of trying EZNEC. But, he didnt actually provide data. I am not qualified to differ with your observations concerning learning to use EZNEC. But, as must be clear by now, I am really impresed with this program and I consider it learnable with a little time and logic. It is my hope that I can encourage anyone who has interest in antenna design and understanding to 'give it a try'. It doesnt demand a formal training course. EZNEC is a nifty tool. Jerry > -- Article: 228480 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "DJ-Planet*" Subject: $7N New Music Editing Software (FREE).. Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 04:16:52 -0700 Message-ID: <44e6f369$0$6918$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format --=_NextPart_2rfkindysadvnqw3nerasdf Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New Promo Software out: http://fta9000.com/Software-Sale/index.htm d;&GEfouQcU,JY$f9@VKL^"5df3/].DM

d;&GEfouQcU,JY$f9@VKL^"5df3/].DM Subject: Re: Vertical radiation from horizontal dipole? Date: 19 Aug 2006 04:22:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1155986569.459767.161930@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: <1155949003.609701.39890@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> 'One attaboy', Roy... The ARRL ought to include that explanation into the Antenna Handbook.. cheers ... denny / k8do Article: 228482 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Richard Crowley" Subject: Re: What is wrong with Hawaii, Alaska, and Canada Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 05:56:59 -0700 Message-ID: <12ee2kslfqpbu87@corp.supernews.com> References: <0QMXZWh9EdSr-pn2-zZuVyPTYdECn@localhost> "kh" < wrote ... > The reason is very straightforward. This is a boatanchor > newsgroup and it's mostly geezers who deal in old radios. > Geezers live in the past; WE don't think critically; the same > tired thoughts cycle through our heads. Even worse, many > of us hallucinate and make up reasons. You'll see several > in this thread. Including your own posting, apparently. > I've bought items from Canada and sold to Canada. One > thing I don't like about it is that it's expensive to ship across > the border. In fact, it's cheaper to ship though Canada to Alaska. > > But then, buyer pays. Unless something goes wrong. The abuse of international transactions is legendary. Even eBay, PayPal, et.al. seem to acknowledge it. As another poster observed, if you are a large-volume commercial vendor, you can "eat" the occasional transaction gone wrong. But if you are selling one-off things (boat-anchors or not) on eBay, etc. it has a significant chilling effect, no matter what generation you represent. Article: 228483 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Dan Richardson Subject: Re: training ?? Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 06:32:58 -0700 Message-ID: <6n4ee29qstlelf2jkvo1ihqn7kmg442djp@4ax.com> References: On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 12:10:55 GMT, ml wrote: >Hi > >Does anyone know of any web or pc based Extra class training? > >NOT* NOT* talking about license prep that just gives you test questions > >Referring to somthing that actually teaches you the material you need to >know for Extra Class > >Just drilling me on the question pool prior to material review is just a >exercise in memory w/o understanding /learning > >I've got good books on it from arrl but thought pc/web based mught be >fun and can't find any > This may be of value. http://www.radioelectronicschool.net/ 73, Danny, K6MHE Article: 228484 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Allodoxaphobia Subject: Re: license renewal Date: 19 Aug 2006 14:04:20 GMT Message-ID: References: Please, God, let this thread die! Article: 228485 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Ron Walters Subject: Re: Sommer antennas References: <44E29966.7020907@fuse.net> Message-ID: <%4FFg.3797$JO5.932@tornado.tampabay.rr.com> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 14:18:35 GMT jawod wrote: > Ron Walters wrote: > >> Would like to hear from Owners of the XP5xx and the XP7xx series of >> antennas from Sommer located in Florida. >> >> Looking at that antenna plus the SteppIR. Will go up on a 45ft Rohn >> Tower that now supports a TA-33 tribander by Mosley >> >> Looking for both the positive as well as negative observations. >> >> Appreciate your input >> >> Ron W4LDE > > Can you please list a website for this product? Nothing on first try google After a few days down due to server problems the Sommer WEB site is back up and running. Talked to Alf (Owner) on Friday and he has invited me to the factory to meet some other Hams who are users and are visiting the factory to pick up more beams, They have been very busy with Govt orders from all around the global and also busy on some new design for the military. Most of there business seems to come from Govt agency's. The WEB site is http://www.sommerantennas.com/ I am looking at this antenna since where I live (Central Fl) we have a great many lighting hits each summer plus the Hurricane potential. I am concerned with the SteppIR for the electrical motors and extra cables >from the antenna down to the shack plus the very high humidity, and sometimes salty, corrosion problem potential with the strips inside the elements. The steppIR is a smaller looking beam and hides better than the sommer but if I also convert to a Hazer mount and I can lower it during bad weather. Still on the fence. Ron W4LDE PS - The next sun spot cycle is just around the corner and I want to be ready with a good antenna, not that the current TA-33 has not done a great job over the years, Trap less beams will perform better and its like adding a second amplifier by going to a LOG or to the steppIR and with the benefits of one feed line from 20-6 meters. Ron W4LDE Article: 228486 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <4+ofJ40X3y5EFwn3@birchnet.demon.co.uk> From: Bill Subject: Re: license renewal References: Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 15:29:02 GMT In message , Allodoxaphobia writes > > Please, God, let this thread die! A prayer often said, rarely answered. -- Bill Article: 228487 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: New antenna find and disappointment From: Dave Oldridge References: <242$44e4ccec$453d9423$1588@FUSE.NET> <1155918870.420369.304640@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 15:42:29 GMT "n3ox.dan@gmail.com" wrote in news:1155918870.420369.304640@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com: > NINE elements for 160!?! > > Any pictures online? Is this a rotatable rigid monster? It's a nine-element phased octagon with eight verticals on the rim and one in the center. Back when Electrospace was making nice verticals, I had two of theirs phased in a variable-delay configuration that did a very nice job from eastern Canada back around 1979. I was fairly loud just about anywhere and easily able to work all continents from there. Never did make it to JA on 75 or 80 like the guys with four-squares, though. Those verticals were 32 feet with a top-hat on them. They were excellent on 75 and literal killers on 40. The first QSO I had on the first one I put up was long-path to VK on 40m CW. It was still daylight at my end of the path! > BTW, the log periodic on top of the tower sounds like a cool setup, I'd > rather roll my own antennas, but it was clever to market it as an > all-in-one solution. It's the very high end G5RV :-) Well, no, it's NOTHING like a G5RV. -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 228488 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: license renewal Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 12:25:44 -0400 Message-ID: References: <4+ofJ40X3y5EFwn3@birchnet.demon.co.uk> On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 15:29:02 GMT, Bill wrote: >In message , Allodoxaphobia > writes >> >> Please, God, let this thread die! > >A prayer often said, rarely answered. nope always answered generaly however the answer is NO http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com