Article: 229269 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Wayne" References: <1157040328.531086.156050@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: REG EDWARDS. CHEERS! Message-ID: <11MJg.39363$NF3.33013@trnddc05> Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 01:28:29 GMT The technical aspects of antennas are complex, and some of the readers of this group (such as myself) are unable to fully participate in discussing the fine points. I want you to know that your dad was one of the handful of highly respected antenna gurus who discussed these technical issues. I learned very much by reading his posts and thinking about his views. The newsgroup will not be the same without him. Wayne "Penguin" wrote in message news:1157040328.531086.156050@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com... > Many thanks for all the kind words about Reg. I'm new to newsgroups but > have followed avidly dad's two favourite groups over the last 24 hours. > (It somehow makes me feel closer to him). I'm especially pleased to > read that you are trying to keep dad's website alive (cheers for that) > and also the postings from those who say they are still learning from > his programs. Dad was definitely all for education and it would have > warmed the cockles of his heart to have read such postings. (Somehow, I > think he is reading them and will be watching you from afar). My > brother Pete is the one to do all the technical 'stuff' in preserving > the website, My "technical"experience concerning antenna only extends > to remembering to remove the aerial before entering the car wash! TTFN > Jean Proctor.( Reg's proud daughter) > Article: 229270 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW..., would Robesin still be an idiot? Date: 31 Aug 2006 19:28:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1157077730.650881.206430@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <1156198607.916738.121580@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > > From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Wed, Aug 30 2006 4:48 am > > > > > > >M...@kb9rqz.com wrote: > > >> On 29 Aug 2006 16:21:38 -0700, hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com wrote: > > >> >LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: > > >> >> Woody wrote: > > > > >> >> > Since I don't know this Robitussin guy, I really can't say anything in reply > > >> >> > to this post.... > > >> >> > rb > > > > > >> >> All you have to do (if you've got about 8 hours to spare) is go > > >> >> through Google archives since before they bought it from > > >> >> DejaNews several years ago. "Robitussin" has thousands of > > >> >> postings in the same venal manner he continues to use... > > >> >> especially his self-promotion as heroic USMC veteran which > > >> >> he has never, ever proved through any third-party references, > > >> >> digitized documents, or much of anything else other than his > > >> >> own AOL home page and self-description on QRZ. > > > > > >> >> He is clearly into his own fantasy of imagined superpowers > > >> >> without the aid of Stan Lee. > > > > > >> >There's some real gems in there. > > > > > >> >Lawsuits. Robeson sues people, or at least he says he does. In his > > >> >last lawsuit, he got an Upper Peninsula attorney gratis, then made > > >> >comments on who his free attorney's wife might be sleeping with. > > >> >Meanwhile, the person he is suing has yet to be served. > > > > > >> acrualywaiti ng now for 5 different lawsuits from steve > > > > > >Five??? What are they for? > > > > Class A uniforms for when Stebie joins the CAP Judge Advocate > > General's office and goes on TV. :-) > > > The CAP has a JAG? I think robesin just likes to collect suits. He loves UNIFORMS, Brian, not suits. ANY uniform. :-) > I'm going to have to find an organization chart and locate the JAG's > office. I was jesting on the "JAG" part. :-) Robeson-Robesin has been on such a jag trying to impress folks (as a fraud) that his posts have enough material for at least two seasons of "JAG - a personal story." > > >> >"Bricks through windows, slashed tires, terrorized wives." These are > > >> >bad things that happen to people who shoot their mouths off, as some > > >> >people have been told they do. Mind you, Robesin isn't the one > > >> >throwing bricks, slashing tires, or terrorizing wives. "Other people" > > >> >do this sort of stuff. > > > > > >> his other selves perhaps > > > > > >I wonder if they've all manifested themselves on RRAP, or if there are > > >others for situations at work, at home, on vacation, when in CAP > > >uniform.... > > > > Oh, wow, what a thought! Major Dud could have his very own > > newsgroup featuring all his personnae! :-) > > Sgt York-Robesin and Chesty Puller-Robesin. And probably Sgt > Schultz-Robesin from Hogan's Heroes, and Corporal Agarn-Robesin from > F-Troop. > > Then there's Walter Mitty-Robesin from fiction. Don't forget the skirt-wearing guy from MASH. :-) > > >> >"Dialing..." On Robesin's personal authority as a male nurse and > > >> >failed Marine, he can make a phone call anywhere in the USA and have > > >> >you picked up on his say so. Really. > > > > > >> yep whow much safer we are for him > > > > > >Mmmmm. I don't think it works that way. Now if it were a reverse > > >911.... > > > > Hey! Rebolutionary! 911 operators call Him! :-) > > He knows everything. But he'll never get the call. > > He taught the 911 Ops that there's a dash between the digits, i.e., > 9-1-1, and they can't find the dash on th{i]er dialpads, even in > reverse. Sunnuvagun! > > >> >"PUTZ, Putz, putz" Disagree with Robesin and you are a penis with a > > >> >yiddish accent. > > > > > >> and then he dinies he makes sexauly based insults > > > > > >Anyone whose read his posts for 5 minutes knows that's a lie. > > > > Absolutely true. 'Robitussin' probably has an empty sex > > life and takes out his frustrations on everyone else. > > Something on the order of Saddam Hussein now...and about > > as Yiddish as Hussein... :-) > > Queezay and Oooday had a rape room. Don't know if Saddam participated. Them's Hussein sons? Could they do morse code? :-) > Perhaps if robesin had been captured on one of his seven hostile forays > behind enemy lines, we might have known the truth about Saddam. > > > >> >"PEDOPHILE, Pedophile, pedophile" If you disagree with Robesin and you > > >> >give of your time to a youth group, you are a pervert. > > > > > >> or just breath air (witness Tood Hans and Myself) > > > > > >> >"HOMO, Homo, homo" Disagree with Robesin and you are queer, with lots > > >> >and lots of inuendo. > > >> that is you todd Han and scores of others > > > > > >Everybody's gay. > > > > ...but morsemen aren't happy. :-( > > It's not the Gay 90's anymore. But maybe before the 1st decade of the > new millenium lets out, we'll have a decision from the FCC. Maybe. Who knows what the ARRL backroom boys are doing in DC? > > >> >Robesin is a national hero, taking part in seven hostile actions as a > > >> >Marine. Yet, his only overseas assignment is Okinawa. Never been > > >> >injured, but discharged after only 18 years. Says he's retired. Says > > >> >he's disabled. Says it's not medical. Says he has been rehabilitated > > >> >by the VA. "Ask the VA." > > > > > >> well I he=ard the army in wirtiing today They afrim the existance of > > >> my old unit > > > > > >Robesin has given so many mixed messages over the conditions of his > > >"discharge" that no one be;lieves him any longer. > > > > At this stage of his fraudulent claims, without ever having > > presented ANY third-party references or documents or even > > personal photographs, he is caught up in his own conundrum. > > The sad thing is, even if he were to finally tell the truth no one > would believe him. That's one of my points... > > If Robeson comes clean and ever shows any documentation now, > > he is in for tons of remarks of his past claims that he can > > never weasel out of, not even with the gratuitous personal > > insults he normally uses against challengers. > > And so, robesin can never come clean. He will go to his grave with > lies heaped up, pushing up the daisies. "Hedgerow flowers," Brian, also known as weeds... > > If Robeson continues on his fraudulent claims, then he is > > only repeating his present behavior, convincing no one, and > > building only his own warped fantasy. The rest of us will be > > stuck with his personal blog output. > > We know better. We are stuck with nothing, the nothing that is > robesin. We got plenty o' nuthin... [from the song] > > >> >Robesin got back into uniform as a Tennessee State Guard "officer" of > > >> >some kind. Very short lived career. > > > > > >> maybe that gruop held him to professional stanards unlike CAP > > > > > >Yikes!!! > > > > The duties of the Tennessee STATE Guard (not affiliated with > > the National Guard) were described by them as a sort of > > in-Tennessee 'custodian' of NG facilities if and only if the > > NG there is activated into federal service plus being a sort-of > > 'military police' for that state. As quasi-MPs they would have > > some ability to access federal records to confirm Robeson's > > military service. On the other hand, the TN STATE Guard will > > (by their own statements) accept membership by civilians. > > So they would be free to raid the armory? Yikes! The armories would no doubt be empty if full activation happens. Prolly better quarters for their monthly meetings, though... > > > >> >Robesin got back into uniform as a Civil Air Patrol (CAP) "officer" of > > >> >some kind. Says he's a Major now. Photo of him in a sage green (not > > >> >blue) flight suit on his QRZ website. As far as I know, most CAP > > >> >volunteers are involved in training youth/Cadets. Hmmmm? > > > > > >> I know that does worry me too > > > > > >Naw. It's everybody else you have to worry about. > > > > ...unless one is under the flight path of this "pilot in > > command." :-) > > I pity anyone under that flight path. They don't know the danger they > might be in. > > And the CAP and American Taxpayers are liable. Well, be thankful we aren't in TN. > > >> >Robesin got a vanity call, K4CAP, while in the CAP. The CAP HQ is at > > >> >Maxwell AFB in Montgomery, Alabama. Then he gave it up. Look where > > >> >his old call now resides. > > > > > >> >Robesin got back into uniform as a male nurse. Says he doesn't wear > > >> >the white dress uniform. Probably just regular pants and a v-neck > > >> >lavendar colo[u]red top. > > > > > >> >Robesin has military medals. He has lots of medals. Many of those > > >> >medals he didn't earn. > > > > > >> has he ever listed them? > > > > > >Nope. I'd only be interested in the ones he earned. But that would > > >just raise more questions about seven hostile actions. > > > > One doesn't get a Good Conduct Medal for fighting in a bar > > outside of Camp Pendleton... :-) > > Probably why he rests his chin on his chest. Can't hold it high. Sounds plausible... > > >> >Robesin used to be an ASSISTANT NCOIC of NMC MARS on Okinawa. Doesn't > > >> >know the first thing about it. Doesn't know what a MOD is. > > > > > >> >"MARS >>>IS<<< Amateur Radio" according to Robesin Yup, you heard it > > >> >here first. > > > > Wayyyy too many times... :-) > > Froot Loops. We've been exposed to his cereal killing of the truth... > > >> >A well know amateur radio outlet had the owners daughter's photo > > >> >featured in a prominent amateur radio publication. Robesin said she > > >> >was selling "Something" but it wasn't radios. He's a swell guy. > > > > [ NOT the way to expect a discount from that dealer... ] > > I'm sure that that amateur radio dealer became aware of robesin's > remarks. Tsk on me, I missed those exchanges. > > >> >Robesin can make comments all day long about how your children won't > > >> >respect you. His child died from severe birth defects and he knows > > >> >that no one will make comments about his children. He's a swell guy. > > > > > >> >Robesin needs to talk to the wives. He needs to talk to Len's wife. > > >> >He needs to talk to my wife. He needs to talk to Mark's wife. He > > >> >wants to talk to them on the phone or in person. He wants to mail > > >> >them. He wants to knock on my door to talk to my wife and posts > > >> >partial addresses so you know to expect a visit. Now he makes jokes > > >> >about Len and Mark's wife. He's a swell guy. > > > > > >> >I could go on, but I don't have 8 hours as Len suggests... > > > > No? :-) It's like reading "Psychopathia Sexualis" by Kraft- > > Ebbing...for fun... :-) > > Ordinary sex is good enough for me. I think Robeson wants to experience OTHERS' sex lives... > > >> >So what's the real beef??? I disagreed with Robesin. He doesn't like > > >> >the way I think. > > > > > >> prehaps it was he disliked that you THINK at all > > > > Robeson imagined himself to be a "real" GSgt, a DILL sergeant > > who GIVES orders and is immune to any criticsm. :-) > > Sorry Anderson Amateur Radio >>>IS NOT<<< Boot Camp! Guess the wannabe DILL sergeant told me, huh? :-) > > >I'm not a Morse bot. > > > > > >> >So what's the real, Real beef? I don't think the Morse Code exam > > >> >should be retained for an HF license in amateur radio. > > > > > >> me neither > > > > > >> looks liek we will win > > > > > >With the tons and tons of sour grapes from these Morse Forever folks, > > >no one has won anything. > > > > The morsemen have been so brainwashed into believing their own > > efficacy in radio that it is impossible to "win" anything, > > certainly not with the ARRL publishing house constantly implying > > that morsemanship is the "best" skill an amateur could have. > > Amateur morsemen are so wrapped up in their personal skill that > > they are unable to come to terms with any amateur or > > professional radio person who doesn't care for it. To them, > > US amateur radio is ALL ABOUT manual radiotelegraphy. Tsk. > > > > LenAnderson@ieee.org > > The day of reckoning is coming. Ah reckon y'all are raht... :-) Article: 229271 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Bob D." Subject: Flexible Coax for HT instead of remote Mic Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:36:13 -0500 Message-ID: I'd like to use my HT in the car. I figure why should I buy the remote microphone when the HT itself is the size of a microphone. All I need is coax that is flexible enough to withstand the rigors of a mic cable. Anyone know of a source of flexible coax? (I have a few feet of Columbia Super-Flex RG-58, but it's 35 years old and really beat up. Do they still make it?) -- Bob D. ND9B Article: 229272 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 31 Aug 2006 19:38:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1157078311.728705.311920@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: Rick Frazier wrote: > You've insisted on posting this crap so many times just about anyone > with more than two or three brain cells would be sick of it by now. Why > don't you just crawl back under the rock you crawled out from under? > > At this point, even a relative moron should get the point that there are > a bunch of people that really don't give a damn about CW. That you do is > not the point, but your continual posts about it are the point. > Therefore, your continual posts lead me to believe you should be seeking > mental help. If you don't think you need therapy, how about you get a > life and if you are so Pro-CW, why aren't you on the bands right now? > > Though I'm an Extra and passed the CW requirements shouldn't make a > difference if I choose to operate phone. If the requirements change and > new Hams aren't required to take the code test, am I going to be pissed? > Hell no, because I took the tests when I did because I wanted to be a > productive part of this hobby, not wait for an easier ticket in. I > learned it, just as a huge number of others have, but none of us wish to > push it like you seem to want to. Even the most die-hard CW fanatic is > spending his time on the bands, not on the internet trolling for arguments. > > Now, to provide a response to your query: It is extremely unlikely that > with all the means we have for contact in the case of an emergency, that > CW would be the only way to make contact, particularly if you live in > anything near an urban evironment in mainland US. First and foremost, > there has to be someone else that will respond to you, and given the > things going on with the hobby lately, I doubt that CW will be the > safety net you'd like to believe it is. > > For myself, I have HF and VHF in both the house and vehicle, and have > the VHF radios all programmed with all of the local police and fire > frequencies. In a true emergency, I wouldn't lose a moment's time > worrying about whether it was legal or not before I keyed up on a public > service/fire/police frequency if it meant saving somebody. Would CW > help? Not very damn likely, as first I'd have to key up the HF rig, get > to someone that could relay, pass a message, hope like hell that they > actually did call the proper authority, (and were believed), and so on. > You can bet I'll get attention right away if I key up on any of the > public service frequencies, and they damn well will respond, if for no > other reason than to find me. If that's what it takes, so be it, they > can fight it out in court later, and I'd get so much media attention > they wouldn't dare push it very far. On the other hand, the likelihood > of actually being believed using standard, HF and CW procedures, or > getting help in a timely manner to actually save a life is an extremely > remote chance... > > I rarely filter anyone, but you've definitely earned the "plonk" of > being filtered. Say Bye-Bye ! ! ! > > --Rick AH7H > > Slow Code wrote: > > > You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life, but you should learn > > it anyway just in case. Ham radio is like a spare tire, when you need it > > you hope it's not flat. CW is like the air in the tire. I know I don't > > ever want to hear someone say: "Why couldn't you get help, I though hams > > were supposed to know morse code." > > > > Sc Thank you, Rick! You spoke volumes of reality in this new millennium. "Slow Code" is a relic of the 1930s, mentally over 70 years in the past. LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229273 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Flexible Coax for HT instead of remote Mic Message-ID: <6d7ff2dk0vi87455giefug1p1u3kni1kk9@4ax.com> References: Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 02:49:50 GMT On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:36:13 -0500, "Bob D." wrote: >I'd like to use my HT in the car. I figure why should I buy the remote >microphone when the HT itself is the size of a microphone. All I need is Some portables get so hot on 12V (13.6V) that you can't hold them after a short period of transmission. One of the benefits of a 5W matchbox sized radio! Owen -- Article: 229274 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW..., would Robesin still be an idiot? Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 23:27:25 -0400 Message-ID: <6r9ff2l2jl3qv44cff6bov8jtt6q5ndr15@4ax.com> References: <1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156865444.617650.136140@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156893698.495263.100150@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <1156938506.811395.322980@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1157057506.858053.130900@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1157070199.185321.280340@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1157077730.650881.206430@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> On 31 Aug 2006 19:28:50 -0700, "LenAnderson@ieee.org" wrote: > >> Queezay and Oooday had a rape room. Don't know if Saddam participated. > > Them's Hussein sons? Could they do morse code? :-) nah but I am sure anytime they might want someone able to do morse would havebeen found for them > >> Perhaps if robesin had been captured on one of his seven hostile forays >> behind enemy lines, we might have known the truth about Saddam. >> >> > >> >"PEDOPHILE, Pedophile, pedophile" If you disagree with Robesin and you >> > >> >give of your time to a youth group, you are a pervert. >> > > >> > >> or just breath air (witness Tood Hans and Myself) >> > > >> > >> >"HOMO, Homo, homo" Disagree with Robesin and you are queer, with lots >> > >> >and lots of inuendo. >> > >> that is you todd Han and scores of others >> > > >> > >Everybody's gay. >> > >> > ...but morsemen aren't happy. :-( >> >> It's not the Gay 90's anymore. But maybe before the 1st decade of the >> new millenium lets out, we'll have a decision from the FCC. > > Maybe. Who knows what the ARRL backroom boys are doing in DC? > > >> > >> >Robesin is a national hero, taking part in seven hostile actions as a >> > >> >Marine. Yet, his only overseas assignment is Okinawa. Never been >> > >> >injured, but discharged after only 18 years. Says he's retired. Says >> > >> >he's disabled. Says it's not medical. Says he has been rehabilitated >> > >> >by the VA. "Ask the VA." >> > > >> > >> well I he=ard the army in wirtiing today They afrim the existance of >> > >> my old unit >> > > >> > >Robesin has given so many mixed messages over the conditions of his >> > >"discharge" that no one be;lieves him any longer. >> > >> > At this stage of his fraudulent claims, without ever having >> > presented ANY third-party references or documents or even >> > personal photographs, he is caught up in his own conundrum. >> >> The sad thing is, even if he were to finally tell the truth no one >> would believe him. > > That's one of my points... indeed ut if he told something convincing enough I might pretend to believe just for the sake of peace > >> > If Robeson comes clean and ever shows any documentation now, >> > he is in for tons of remarks of his past claims that he can >> > never weasel out of, not even with the gratuitous personal >> > insults he normally uses against challengers. >> >> And so, robesin can never come clean. He will go to his grave with >> lies heaped up, pushing up the daisies. > > "Hedgerow flowers," Brian, also known as weeds... > >> > If Robeson continues on his fraudulent claims, then he is >> > only repeating his present behavior, convincing no one, and >> > building only his own warped fantasy. The rest of us will be >> > stuck with his personal blog output. >> >> We know better. We are stuck with nothing, the nothing that is >> robesin. > > We got plenty o' nuthin... [from the song] > > >> > >> >Robesin got back into uniform as a Tennessee State Guard "officer" of >> > >> >some kind. Very short lived career. >> > > >> > >> maybe that gruop held him to professional stanards unlike CAP >> > > >> > >Yikes!!! >> > >> > The duties of the Tennessee STATE Guard (not affiliated with >> > the National Guard) were described by them as a sort of >> > in-Tennessee 'custodian' of NG facilities if and only if the >> > NG there is activated into federal service plus being a sort-of >> > 'military police' for that state. As quasi-MPs they would have >> > some ability to access federal records to confirm Robeson's >> > military service. On the other hand, the TN STATE Guard will >> > (by their own statements) accept membership by civilians. >> >> So they would be free to raid the armory? Yikes! > > The armories would no doubt be empty if full activation happens. well they would be defending things like the kitchen sinks and the bathrooms > > Prolly better quarters for their monthly meetings, though... > > >> > > >> >Robesin got back into uniform as a Civil Air Patrol (CAP) "officer" of >> > >> >some kind. Says he's a Major now. Photo of him in a sage green (not >> > >> >blue) flight suit on his QRZ website. As far as I know, most CAP >> > >> >volunteers are involved in training youth/Cadets. Hmmmm? >> > > >> > >> I know that does worry me too >> > > >> > >Naw. It's everybody else you have to worry about. >> > >> > ...unless one is under the flight path of this "pilot in >> > command." :-) >> >> I pity anyone under that flight path. They don't know the danger they >> might be in. >> >> And the CAP and American Taxpayers are liable. > > Well, be thankful we aren't in TN. amen Alah be praise Caththulu be thanked > > > > > >> >Robesin got a vanity call, K4CAP, while in the CAP. The CAP >HQ is at >> > >> >Maxwell AFB in Montgomery, Alabama. Then he gave it up. Look where >> > >> >his old call now resides. >> > > >> > >> >Robesin got back into uniform as a male nurse. Says he doesn't wear >> > >> >the white dress uniform. Probably just regular pants and a v-neck >> > >> >lavendar colo[u]red top. >> > > >> > >> >Robesin has military medals. He has lots of medals. Many of those >> > >> >medals he didn't earn. >> > > >> > >> has he ever listed them? >> > > >> > >Nope. I'd only be interested in the ones he earned. But that would >> > >just raise more questions about seven hostile actions. >> > >> > One doesn't get a Good Conduct Medal for fighting in a bar >> > outside of Camp Pendleton... :-) >> >> Probably why he rests his chin on his chest. Can't hold it high. > > Sounds plausible... > >> > >> >Robesin used to be an ASSISTANT NCOIC of NMC MARS on Okinawa. Doesn't >> > >> >know the first thing about it. Doesn't know what a MOD is. >> > > >> > >> >"MARS >>>IS<<< Amateur Radio" according to Robesin Yup, you heard it >> > >> >here first. >> > >> > Wayyyy too many times... :-) >> >> Froot Loops. > > We've been exposed to his cereal killing of the truth... > > >> > >> >A well know amateur radio outlet had the owners daughter's photo >> > >> >featured in a prominent amateur radio publication. Robesin said she >> > >> >was selling "Something" but it wasn't radios. He's a swell guy. >> > >> > [ NOT the way to expect a discount from that dealer... ] >> >> I'm sure that that amateur radio dealer became aware of robesin's >> remarks. > > Tsk on me, I missed those exchanges. me too > > >> > >> >Robesin can make comments all day long about how your children won't >> > >> >respect you. His child died from severe birth defects and he knows >> > >> >that no one will make comments about his children. He's a swell guy. >> > > >> > >> >Robesin needs to talk to the wives. He needs to talk to Len's wife. >> > >> >He needs to talk to my wife. He needs to talk to Mark's wife. He >> > >> >wants to talk to them on the phone or in person. He wants to mail >> > >> >them. He wants to knock on my door to talk to my wife and posts >> > >> >partial addresses so you know to expect a visit. Now he makes jokes >> > >> >about Len and Mark's wife. He's a swell guy. >> > > >> > >> >I could go on, but I don't have 8 hours as Len suggests... >> > >> > No? :-) It's like reading "Psychopathia Sexualis" by Kraft- >> > Ebbing...for fun... :-) >> >> Ordinary sex is good enough for me. > > I think Robeson wants to experience OTHERS' sex lives... yep mine esp it seems and with him insisting mie is ony with other guys it should make everyone clear Robesin does not have sexaul issues his has a subscription > >> > >> >So what's the real beef??? I disagreed with Robesin. He doesn't like >> > >> >the way I think. >> > > >> > >> prehaps it was he disliked that you THINK at all >> > >> > Robeson imagined himself to be a "real" GSgt, a DILL sergeant >> > who GIVES orders and is immune to any criticsm. :-) >> >> Sorry Anderson Amateur Radio >>>IS NOT<<< Boot Camp! > > Guess the wannabe DILL sergeant told me, huh? :-) well real boot camp would pleasenter than what Robesin would devise I know Boot camp was accuauly the most fun I had in the army > >> > >I'm not a Morse bot. >> > > >> > >> >So what's the real, Real beef? I don't think the Morse Code exam >> > >> >should be retained for an HF license in amateur radio. >> > > >> > >> me neither >> > > >> > >> looks liek we will win >> > > >> > >With the tons and tons of sour grapes from these Morse Forever folks, >> > >no one has won anything. >> > >> > The morsemen have been so brainwashed into believing their own >> > efficacy in radio that it is impossible to "win" anything, >> > certainly not with the ARRL publishing house constantly implying >> > that morsemanship is the "best" skill an amateur could have. >> > Amateur morsemen are so wrapped up in their personal skill that >> > they are unable to come to terms with any amateur or >> > professional radio person who doesn't care for it. To them, >> > US amateur radio is ALL ABOUT manual radiotelegraphy. Tsk. >> > >> > LenAnderson@ieee.org >> >> The day of reckoning is coming. > > Ah reckon y'all are raht... :-) yep http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229275 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Subject: Re: Log Periodic ant References: <7pxJg.96876$fV1.85407@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 03:29:28 GMT Why try to design and build one if you can get a 900 to 2600MHz version for US$12 or a 2 to 11GHz version for US$6. See Ebay items 300021857426 and 300021856873. How about 400 to 900MHz for US$24, item 300021857046. Cheers! Bob Lee wrote: > "Helmut Wabnig" <...._.--_.-_-..._-._.._--.@.-_---_-._*_.-_-> wrote in > message news:v00df213umpbjo00gvkfjdqre7p3to2qlf@4ax.com... >> On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 07:43:15 GMT, "Lee" >> wrote: > < >>> Is there any software around to design a log periodic to around >>> 2400megs??.....i`ve found some but is there any better?.. >> http://members.aon.at/hwabnig/ >> input your numbers.... > > Thankyou Helmut, very much apreciated....... > > Lee.......G6ZSG..... > > Article: 229276 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "copdoc1@optonline.net" Subject: Re: NEED TO KNOW BEST ANTENNA Date: 31 Aug 2006 20:44:06 -0700 Message-ID: <1157082246.444938.77100@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <1156838393.328804.90100@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Now did I open a Pandora's Box or what LOL. Ok let me put this out there. Instead of me using CB's how about Mobile Ham. I know I have to get a ham Lic. The one I would go for I think is called a Techn. Lic. This way all I have to do is take a writen test and yes I pass on the morse code. Thoughts? P Cecil Moore wrote: > Dave wrote: > > Cecil Moore wrote: > >> Although short wave skip is illegal for CBers. > > > > You are CORRECT!! > > But, Mr. Hollingsworth ignores that too. Along with everything else on > > 11 meters. > > Too bad the local cops don't ignore the seat belt laws. > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229277 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Curious Subject: Female PL259? Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 00:16:06 -0500 Message-ID: <951m0.hb5.19.1@news.alt.net> I am looking for a female version of the standard PL-259 connector. It connects the same way a 259 does, but is simply a female version. I called The Wireman and was told they no longer handle these connectors due to no interest. My goal is to make a jumper cable (I've seen these connectors at Rad Shack on pre-made cables) with a male on one end, a female on the other so as to add a 25 ft. length of cable without having to mess with a barrel connector. Anybody know where this can be found? And, NO, I am not in the market for an SO-239. Article: 229278 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt) Subject: Re: Female PL259? Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 04:53:40 -0000 Message-ID: <12fff6kbcuap655@corp.supernews.com> References: <951m0.hb5.19.1@news.alt.net> In article <951m0.hb5.19.1@news.alt.net>, Curious wrote: >I am looking for a female version of the standard PL-259 connector. It >connects the same way a 259 does, but is simply a female version. >I called The Wireman and was told they no longer handle these connectors >due to no interest. >My goal is to make a jumper cable (I've seen these connectors at Rad >Shack on pre-made cables) with a male on one end, a female on the other >so as to add a 25 ft. length of cable without having to mess with a >barrel connector. >Anybody know where this can be found? And, NO, I am not in the market >for an SO-239. http://www.antenex.com has them - part number CPL9CF is a crimp-on female PL-259 for RG-58 cable. Antenex dealers such as Falcon Direct carry the same part, same number. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! Article: 229279 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Brenda Ann" Subject: Re: You've Got Mail...But No Job! Fun at Radio Shack Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:42:53 +0900 Message-ID: References: <1157024765.544514.143820@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> -- Say no to institutionalized interference. Just say NO to HD/IBOC! "Jerry" wrote in message news:uJLJg.27672$C6.23319@bignews1.bellsouth.net... > > "Not Cocksucker Lloyd" wrote in message > news:1157024765.544514.143820@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... >> Tharsheblowsboys wrote: > (snip) > > Walmart employees are usually a tad more >> intellegent than your average Radio Shack stooge. > > You noticed that, too, eh? ;) > And that's just the greeters.. Article: 229280 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Alan WA4SCA Subject: Re: REG EDWARDS. CHEERS! Message-ID: <958gf2l3b5bdb6a46s38jkthfj2a41p8b1@4ax.com> References: <1157040328.531086.156050@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 12:05:50 GMT Jean and family, You have great reason to be proud of Reg, both as a person, and as an exceptional ham! He had incredible physical intuition, and was one of the few people who knew how a piece of aluminum in an electromagnetic field "feels." He was kind and patient enough to share that with those of us who don't those skills. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family in this time of loss. Alan WA4SCA -- Alan WA4SCA Article: 229281 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" Subject: Re: REG EDWARDS. CHEERS! Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 07:18:04 -0500 Message-ID: <12fg97pp2q18o6f@corp.supernews.com> References: <1157040328.531086.156050@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <9h8ef21nmboskslmmp2pepjggn5q7j1ko1@4ax.com> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:HmGJg.13640$1f6.1833@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net... > Wes Stewart wrote: >> So as I hoist a glass of good California red I too say, "Cheers Reg!" > > I'll drink to that. Reg and I shared a lot of technical > emails about wine. > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp You aren't alone in that Cecil. Reg was one of the folks who defined this group. Whenever I raise a glass, I'll reserve a bit of it for Reg. Cheers H. NQ5H Article: 229282 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison) Subject: Re: REG EDWARDS. CHEERS! Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 08:22:24 -0500 Message-ID: <2587-44F83410-57@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net> References: <12fg97pp2q18o6f@corp.supernews.com> Cecil, W5DXP wrote: "I`ll drink to that. (Cheers Reg! From Wes Stewart.)" I`ll drink to that too. Reg leaves a big hole in this news group. Best regarfs, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI Article: 229283 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "PA3HGT" Subject: Palstar AT1500CV/AT1500DT Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 16:03:02 +0200 Message-ID: <4lqsslF37qcmU1@individual.net> Hello, I am a littlebit in doubt to buy an AT1500DT diff-T tuner of Palstar and sell the AT1500CV T-tuner. At the moment i use a Palstar AT1500CV for my vertical with a great joy and maybe the AT1500DT will work better ? Can someone say the cons and pro's about the AT1500DT ? -- Met vriendelijke groeten, Hans Pluijgers callsign : PA3HGT http://www.pa3hgt.nl Article: 229284 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156625194.043740.144750@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156785256.069644.201200@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156792713.040407.124420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156811317.904136.25960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:22:47 GMT Jim Kelley wrote: > You should think about it because amateur radios don't usually have > circulators on their output, and the result illuminates a corner of the > discussion that you've been pretty closed minded about. Here's a brainteaser for you, Jim. Assume the following example under steady-state conditions: XMTR--X--tuner--Y--one second long lossless feedline---291.42 ohms Ps=100W Pfor=200W--> <--100W=Pref PL=100W The lossless tuner is tuned for a Z0-match so there is zero reflected power at point 'X'. The Z0 of the feedline is 50 ohms. The voltage reflection coefficient at the load is 0.707 making the power reflection coefficient 0.5 We suddenly disconnect the source at point 'Y'. After the source is disconnected, how many joules of energy are delivered to the load? _____ How many seconds does it take to dissipate all the energy in the feedline? _____ On a second by second basis, how much power is delivered to the load after the disconnect? _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229285 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "n3ox.dan@gmail.com" Subject: PC Board Capacitors at HF Date: 1 Sep 2006 07:30:21 -0700 Message-ID: <1157121021.156335.44310@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> I want to make a couple of L networks to match a 20m delta loop to 50 ohm coax on 20m and 17m; 100W max. I know I can use a transformer on 20m, but I figure I'll save my ferrites if I'm building L networks anyway, and to be economical of junkbox parts, I'd also like to save my air variables. Would capacitors made of PC board be decent transmitting caps at these frequencies, provided they didn't break down? The board is hamfest surplus special... so I don't know what it is, but it may be G10... it's a dark green fiberglass material, about 2mm thick dielectric. Comparing the capacitance of a 2 inch square of the material (88pF) to a parallel plate cap with air dielectric of the same physical dimensions (12pF) gives a dielectric constant of about 7.3. I'm going to try it anyway, but I'd appreciate any input anyone has about the suitability of unknown PC board as HF transmitting capacitor material, primarily with respect to dielectric losses. If it matters, the 20m network is a 1.14uH series inductor with an 88pF capacitor shunting the antenna side. The 17m network is a 3.08uH series inductor with a 29pF shunt. The 20m antenna impedance is about 250+j0 and the 17m impedance is about 950+j1200. I figure there might be some voltage breakdown issues, but worst case, I smooth the edges of 2 or 3 2x27pF or 3x27pF caps and put them in series. Thanks and 73, Dan Article: 229286 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Allodoxaphobia Subject: Re: Flexible Coax for HT instead of remote Mic Date: 1 Sep 2006 15:09:16 GMT Message-ID: References: <6d7ff2dk0vi87455giefug1p1u3kni1kk9@4ax.com> On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 02:49:50 GMT, Owen Duffy wrote: > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:36:13 -0500, "Bob D." > wrote: > >>I'd like to use my HT in the car. I figure why should I buy the remote >>microphone when the HT itself is the size of a microphone. All I need is > > Some portables get so hot on 12V (13.6V) that you can't hold them > after a short period of transmission. One of the benefits of a 5W > matchbox sized radio! I'd consider _that_ a plus. Helps rein in the motor-mouths. What the OP needs to be concerned about is not so much the flexibility of the feed line, but, rather, the sturdiness of the coax connector at the HT. That 'joint' will take a lot of stress in such a mode of operation. Not only will there be problems at the point where the coax enters the male connector, but the large stresses on the female connector will oft times ruin the internal attachment to the pc board. Back before the banality of VHF FM operations drove me away, I would make up a little plastic 'back-board' that attached securely to the HT and extended up a ways to help support the coax. As well, I slipped some over-sized tubing over the coax to move the flexing away from the coax connector. Jonesy -- Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux 38.24N 104.55W | @ config.com | Jonesy | OS/2 *** Killfiling google posts: Article: 229287 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Bob Subject: Re: How far can you stretch a discone for receive only? References: Message-ID: Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 10:10:46 -0500 Hi Bob There isnt a simple answer to your question! You havent really defined what "usable" really means either. As a gut feel however a discone would probably be "usable" over a 10:1 frequency range (say 44-440MHz) There will be some tradeoffs however, the most troublesome (in my view) being non optimal radiation pattern as you go higher in frequency. (ie the antenna pattern tends to sky) It will never work as well as an antenna designed for a specific frequency. Your only real option is to try it and see. Below about (say) 20MHz you'll probably get better performance just using the feedline to the discone. You might even consider separately RF earthing the R3 and then only connecting the centre conductor of the discone coax. You will of course encounter local noise issues but it does work. Its a hard call to find an antenna to do what you want unless a lot of compromises are accepted. If I was in that situation I'd probably grab one of those motorized car radio antennas type designs so I could adjust the length remotely, or look into some kind of (remote adjust) magloop design for at least the HF end. Apologies for not being much help Cheers Bob W5/VK2YQA Bob D. wrote: > I'm looking for a single antenna solution for my IC-R3 receiver. Could a > discone antenna cover 500KHz to 440 MHz with usable signal? (This is receive > only.) Would a ramdom length wire be my best bet? > Article: 229288 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 1 Sep 2006 09:22:29 -0700 Message-ID: <1157127749.006189.43190@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > Rick Frazier wrote: > > You've insisted on posting this crap so many times just about anyone > > with more than two or three brain cells would be sick of it by now. Why > > don't you just crawl back under the rock you crawled out from under? > > --Rick AH7H > > > > Slow Code wrote: > > > > > You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life, but you should learn > > > it anyway just in case. Ham radio is like a spare tire, when you need it > > > you hope it's not flat. CW is like the air in the tire. I know I don't > > > ever want to hear someone say: "Why couldn't you get help, I though hams > > > were supposed to know morse code." > > > > > > Sc > > Thank you, Rick! You spoke volumes of reality in this new > millennium. > > "Slow Code" is a relic of the 1930s, mentally over 70 years in the > past. indeed it is interesting that Slow code seems stuck in era before he was born do I have to apologize to Sceintology nuts > > LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229289 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "K7ITM" Subject: Re: PC Board Capacitors at HF Date: 1 Sep 2006 10:31:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1157131919.578091.78620@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: <1157121021.156335.44310@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> For the 20M case, the RMS voltage at 100 watts is only about 160. Especially if you trim the copper back a bit from the board edge, it shouldn't be a problem. The 17M case is about 500VRMS at 100 watts. Even that probably won't be a problem. (I have an SO8 IC in front of me that claims to be OK with 600 volts between adjacent pins: less than half the thickness of your board.) Since the board area is so small for that 29pf, why not just try it? The thing I'd be most worried about is corona at the sharp edges of the board. If you were to make the capacitor plates circular, that would help. In addition, if you soldered a ring of, say, 12AWG bare copper wire to the edge of the circular plate on each side, that would make a rounded edge. If one side of the capacitor is "ground" anyway, just leave that side's copper the size of the board, and trim back only the other side. The outer edge of the PC board copper circle would just touch the "donut" of copper wire. A cap like that would probably be good for several thousand volts, assuming the dielectric extended out several mm past the circle. Fiberglass-epoxy isn't the best dielectric for a capacitor in terms of high frequency loss, but should be OK for your low power. But is it really standard fiberglass-epoxy? If it's standard 1.6mm thick, I'd expect no more than about 70pF with 4 square inches of plate area. A relative dielectric constant of 7.3 is too big for standard FR-4/G-10 material. You may need to put some RF current through it to test to make sure it doesn't heat up too much. I really don't think you'll need to put caps in series to get what you want. In any event, instead of making three separate capacitors, you could just add an air gap between two pieces of your copper-clad material...or use some dielectric other than air if it's easier. But some nylon screws and nuts (the nuts acting to space the boards), or even steel ones out on the periphery away from the capacitor plates, should work fine. You could even make it adjustable that way, by adjusting the spacing... Cheers, Tom n3ox.dan@gmail.com wrote: > I want to make a couple of L networks to match a 20m delta loop to 50 > ohm coax on 20m and 17m; 100W max. I know I can use a transformer on > 20m, but I figure I'll save my ferrites if I'm building L networks > anyway, and to be economical of junkbox parts, I'd also like to save my > air variables. > > Would capacitors made of PC board be decent transmitting caps at these > frequencies, provided they didn't break down? The board is hamfest > surplus special... so I don't know what it is, but it may be G10... > it's a dark green fiberglass material, about 2mm thick dielectric. > Comparing the capacitance of a 2 inch square of the material (88pF) to > a parallel plate cap with air dielectric of the same physical > dimensions (12pF) gives a dielectric constant of about 7.3. > > I'm going to try it anyway, but I'd appreciate any input anyone has > about the suitability of unknown PC board as HF transmitting capacitor > material, primarily with respect to dielectric losses. > > If it matters, the 20m network is a 1.14uH series inductor with an 88pF > capacitor shunting the antenna side. The 17m network is a 3.08uH > series inductor with a 29pF shunt. The 20m antenna impedance is about > 250+j0 and the 17m impedance is about 950+j1200. I figure there might > be some voltage breakdown issues, but worst case, I smooth the edges of > 2 or 3 2x27pF or 3x27pF caps and put them in series. > > Thanks and 73, > Dan Article: 229290 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Dr.Ace" References: <44f6dae3$0$10210$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <20NJg.5739$rd7.3255@edtnps89> Subject: Re: You've Got Mail...But No Job! Fun at Radio Shack Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 12:41:05 -0500 Message-ID: "m II" wrote in message news:20NJg.5739$rd7.3255@edtnps89... > L. wrote: > >> I guess the adage applies - it IS a "Dog eat dog" world out there. > > > Count your blessings. In a Totalitarian State, it's exactly the opposite! > > > > mike Just wondering , what's the opposite of a "Dog eat dog" world ? Ace - WH2T Article: 229291 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Female PL259? From: Ed References: <951m0.hb5.19.1@news.alt.net> Message-ID: Date: 01 Sep 2006 17:41:03 GMT > > A female PL-259 will have the threaded ring on it- how will you deal > with 2 threaded rings being mated together? What you ARE looking for > is an in-line SO-239. Pasternack and The RF Connection both carry them > for cables from RG-58 to RG-213 sized cables. > Further Info: Pasternak's Catalog #2006C page 134 shows what you want. Depending on whether you are using RG58 or RG8, and depending on whether you want crimp connector ( requires special crimp tool) or clamp type, they have it all. www.Pasternack.com or 866-727-8376 Ed K7AAT Article: 229292 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 1 Sep 2006 10:45:27 -0700 Message-ID: <1157132727.151321.78360@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: an old friend wrote: > LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > > Rick Frazier wrote: > > > You've insisted on posting this crap so many times just about anyone > > > with more than two or three brain cells would be sick of it by now. Why > > > don't you just crawl back under the rock you crawled out from under? > > > > --Rick AH7H > > > > > > Slow Code wrote: > > > > > > > You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life, but you should learn > > > > it anyway just in case. Ham radio is like a spare tire, when you need it > > > > you hope it's not flat. CW is like the air in the tire. I know I don't > > > > ever want to hear someone say: "Why couldn't you get help, I though hams > > > > were supposed to know morse code." > > > > > > > > Sc > > > > Thank you, Rick! You spoke volumes of reality in this new > > millennium. > > > > "Slow Code" is a relic of the 1930s, mentally over 70 years in the > > past. > indeed it is interesting that Slow code seems stuck in era before he > was born do I have to apologize to Sceintology nuts Mark, you don't have to apologize to anyone. If Slow Code isn't a throwback to 7 decades ago, he is one example of a thoroughly brainwashed morseman imprinted with the Beliefs of 70 years ago...and all the mythos of "code saves lives" that spread like kudzu after the Titanic disaster of 1912. LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229293 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: You've Got Mail...But No Job! Fun at Radio Shack References: <44f6dae3$0$10210$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <20NJg.5739$rd7.3255@edtnps89> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 17:47:37 GMT Dr.Ace wrote: > Just wondering , what's the opposite of a "Dog eat dog" world ? Isn't god the opposite of dog? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229294 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim Kelley Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 11:03:39 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156785256.069644.201200@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156792713.040407.124420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156811317.904136.25960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Cecil Moore wrote: > Jim Kelley wrote: > >> You should think about it because amateur radios don't usually have >> circulators on their output, and the result illuminates a corner of >> the discussion that you've been pretty closed minded about. > > > Here's a brainteaser for you, Jim. Assume the following example > under steady-state conditions: > > XMTR--X--tuner--Y--one second long lossless feedline---291.42 ohms > Ps=100W Pfor=200W--> <--100W=Pref PL=100W If you aren't going to solve the problem I posed, then I don't see why I should feel obliged to bother with any more of yours. Only seems fair. There is a significant point to my question that you still have not addressed. Would you have us believe that some new revelation is being presented by this latest problem of yours? Or perhaps it's simply intended to divert attention away, once again, >from my question. Or maybe it was just too hard for you. How about a simpler problem then: XMTR--X--one second long lossless feedline---infinite ohms PS=100W How many Joules are stored in the transmission line? Why? 73, ac6xg Article: 229295 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt) Subject: Re: Flexible Coax for HT instead of remote Mic Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 18:30:53 -0000 Message-ID: <12fgv2t9eptl736@corp.supernews.com> References: <6d7ff2dk0vi87455giefug1p1u3kni1kk9@4ax.com> In article , Allodoxaphobia wrote: >What the OP needs to be concerned about is not so much the flexibility >of the feed line, but, rather, the sturdiness of the coax connector at >the HT. That 'joint' will take a lot of stress in such a mode of >operation. Not only will there be problems at the point where the coax >enters the male connector, but the large stresses on the female connector >will oft times ruin the internal attachment to the pc board. I've also found that HTs are less than ideal for mobile ops for another reason - squelch. Most of them do not have a separate squelch knob - you have to go through a menu to change the squelch setting. Not a good thing to do while driving - it's the sort of thing which makes J. Random Cellphone User's distracted behavior seem downright civilized. Add to this the fairly wide-open nature of most HT's RF front ends, (and the resulting sensitivity to intermod), and the amount of 2-meter RF noise and birdies from cable leakage, etc., and you end up with a bad mixture. An HT with a magmount antenna will do in a pinch, but I don't feel that it's a good long-term frequent-user solution in an urban area. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! Article: 229296 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:39:08 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: NEED TO KNOW BEST ANTENNA References: <1156838393.328804.90100@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156992037.683476.126010@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <-dqdnY6coY553GrZnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@comcast.com> <79JJg.15$MF1.4@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net> <1157082246.444938.77100@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: copdoc1@optonline.net wrote: > Now did I open a Pandora's Box or what LOL. > > Ok let me put this out there. Instead of me using CB's how about Mobile > Ham. I know I have to get a ham Lic. The one I would go for I think is > called a Techn. Lic. This way all I have to do is take a writen test > and yes I pass on the morse code. > Thoughts? > P > My 5 watt IC-T7H will transmit a signal that is 100% copyable by satellites 200+ miles away. We have been trying to tell you; "The issue is NOT POWER!!!" You are focused on power. You should be focused on the range [miles or km] you wish to cover reliably. Tell us how you intend to use your radio then we can give you a more meaningful answer. /s/ DD Article: 229297 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:48:28 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Female PL259? References: <951m0.hb5.19.1@news.alt.net> Message-ID: But, the SO-239 is the natural 'mate' for the PL-259 :-) Build your cable with PL-259s on both ends. Then buy a UHF Adapter Jack-Jack, Amphenol P/N 83-1J. This is the easiest way to achieve what you want to do. The 83-1J is available at HRO et al distributors. /s/ DD, W1MCE Curious wrote: > I am looking for a female version of the standard PL-259 connector. It > connects the same way a 259 does, but is simply a female version. > I called The Wireman and was told they no longer handle these connectors > due to no interest. > My goal is to make a jumper cable (I've seen these connectors at Rad > Shack on pre-made cables) with a male on one end, a female on the other > so as to add a 25 ft. length of cable without having to mess with a > barrel connector. > Anybody know where this can be found? And, NO, I am not in the market > for an SO-239. Article: 229298 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Wimpie" Subject: Re: PC Board Capacitors at HF Date: 1 Sep 2006 12:10:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1157137825.470616.254100@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <1157121021.156335.44310@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Hello Dan, About your matching network for loop antennas: Breakdown will not occur through the material in your case. Major issue is dielectric losses. As you know the antenna impedances, you are able to calculate the apparent power for the capacitor (just Ic*Uc [rms values]). Both Epsilon and loss factor for FR4 varies (depending on the manufacturer). You can use 0.01 as a rule off thumb. So if your capacitor "consumes" an apparent power of 500W (at 100W input), the loss inside the capacitor is about 500*0.01 = 5W. I hope this will help you. Wim PA3DJS Article: 229299 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 12:18:37 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1156811317.904136.25960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 11:03:39 -0700, Jim Kelley wrote: >How many Joules are stored in the transmission line? 100 > Why? Spillage. The cup is two halves full (or no halves empty for the pessimists in the crowd) Article: 229300 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Dale Parfitt" References: <1157121021.156335.44310@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: PC Board Capacitors at HF Message-ID: Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:48:50 GMT wrote in message news:1157121021.156335.44310@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com... >I want to make a couple of L networks to match a 20m delta loop to 50 > ohm coax on 20m and 17m; 100W max. I know I can use a transformer on > 20m, but I figure I'll save my ferrites if I'm building L networks > anyway, and to be economical of junkbox parts, I'd also like to save my > air variables. > > Would capacitors made of PC board be decent transmitting caps at these > frequencies, provided they didn't break down? The board is hamfest > surplus special... so I don't know what it is, but it may be G10... > it's a dark green fiberglass material, about 2mm thick dielectric. > Comparing the capacitance of a 2 inch square of the material (88pF) to > a parallel plate cap with air dielectric of the same physical > dimensions (12pF) gives a dielectric constant of about 7.3. > > I'm going to try it anyway, but I'd appreciate any input anyone has > about the suitability of unknown PC board as HF transmitting capacitor > material, primarily with respect to dielectric losses. > > If it matters, the 20m network is a 1.14uH series inductor with an 88pF > capacitor shunting the antenna side. The 17m network is a 3.08uH > series inductor with a 29pF shunt. The 20m antenna impedance is about > 250+j0 and the 17m impedance is about 950+j1200. I figure there might > be some voltage breakdown issues, but worst case, I smooth the edges of > 2 or 3 2x27pF or 3x27pF caps and put them in series. > > Thanks and 73, > Dan Use quality coaxial cable- high V breakdown and very low loss factor. Dale W4OP > Article: 229302 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim Kelley Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 12:49:43 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1156811317.904136.25960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Richard Clark wrote: > On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 11:03:39 -0700, Jim Kelley > wrote: > > >>How many Joules are stored in the transmission line? > > > 100 That may be the correct solution to a somewhat different problem. >>Why? > > > Spillage. The cup is two halves full (or no halves empty for the > pessimists in the crowd) Pessimists would report that "there are a disasterous and insurmountable number of full halves", when in fact there are just two. 73, ac6xg Article: 229303 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: If you had to use CW..., would Robesin still be an idiot? Date: 1 Sep 2006 13:11:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1157141492.478822.244820@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1156455284.028084.184240@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> From: M...@kb9rqz.com on Thurs, Aug 31 2006 8:27 pm > wrote: >>> > At this stage of his fraudulent claims, without ever having >>> > presented ANY third-party references or documents or even >>> > personal photographs, he is caught up in his own conundrum. > >>> The sad thing is, even if he were to finally tell the truth no one >>> would believe him. > >> That's one of my points... > >indeed ut if he told something convincing enough I might pretend to >believe just for the sake of peace So far, Robeson has NOT been convincing. He IMPLIES and ALLUDES to things but hardly ever states anything outright and then never with any referencible sources that anyone can access. Robeson has tried to construct an edifice, indeed almost a temple in which we should all venerate his mighty accomplishments AND, at the same time, has leveled barrages of personal insults and deragatory accusations against all challengers. That latter action negated his mighty constructs and established his fraud. That 'edifice' has to be torn down...if for no other reason than being an eyesore to us in his field of dreams. >>> > The duties of the Tennessee STATE Guard (not affiliated with >>> > the National Guard) were described by them as a sort of >>> > in-Tennessee 'custodian' of NG facilities if and only if the >>> > NG there is activated into federal service plus being a sort-of >>> > 'military police' for that state. As quasi-MPs they would have >>> > some ability to access federal records to confirm Robeson's >>> > military service. On the other hand, the TN STATE Guard will >>> > (by their own statements) accept membership by civilians. > >>> So they would be free to raid the armory? Yikes! > >> The armories would no doubt be empty if full activation happens. > >well they would be defending things like the kitchen sinks and the >bathrooms In reality, the STATE Guards (not all states have them) are little more than state political constructs to enable a few to play soldier and otherwise establish their machismo. Part of that is the ever-present "conspiracy theory" coupled with some kind of imaginative armageddon scenario of a doomed future where everything in a state is in ruins or anarchy but the "state guard" can step in and "restore order." The curious thing about the latter is that some of the Believers in the efficacy of morsemanship think in the same manner...that only amateur radio survives the worst emergency and that only morsemanship can be used to call for help. That is patently absurd in light of reality but founded on the mythos of morse that grew following the Titanic disaster of 94 years ago. As to fully-activated National Guard units, the states have various plans to keep the NG structures and land intact, usually using civilian personnel (law enforcement, probably) and that does not require a lot of personnel. In the field of communications for the REAL public safety agencies, those agencies are well-supplied with many forms of communication of their own (outnumbering amateur licensees according to EIA data of about 15 years ago) that is NOT part of the "telephone infrastructure" that many ham-patriots erroneously think "always fails in an emergency." Most public safety agencies in the USA have established emergency-scenario plans and they periodically train/drill for those procedures. Very few amateur radio local organizations do that. >>> > >> >A well know amateur radio outlet had the owners daughter's photo >>> > >> >featured in a prominent amateur radio publication. Robesin said she >>> > >> >was selling "Something" but it wasn't radios. He's a swell guy. > >>> > [ NOT the way to expect a discount from that dealer... ] > >>> I'm sure that that amateur radio dealer became aware of robesin's >>> remarks. > >> Tsk on me, I missed those exchanges. > >me too For several months past I simply did not bother accessing Google for this newsgroup. It was a waste of time when the macho middle-school mental-adolescents came in and talked trash and filth to anyone. How many of those anony-mousies were actual amateur radio licensees is unknown and irrelevant. The known licensed amateurs just didn't do anything about them. That presents a very BIG negative on the amateurs' ability "to police their own." They couldn't. They can't despite their brags about such "policing." Robeson once made claims that he was IN one of the local Los Angeles HRO stores, with "friends while visiting them." A big problem with that was that was his claimed time-line and NOT being able to describe, even in minor detail, the locations or the surrounding territory. The first HRO in northern L.A. was in Van Nuys, CA, in the center of the San Fernando Valley. [bought my Icom R70 there years ago] That HRO moved to Burbank, CA, a few years ago, at the corner of Buena Vista and Victory (a major intersection with shops at all four corners). It is across the street from a relatively new food supermarket having a huge elevated sign visible from all four corners. Robeson could not describe that sign, let alone the location, even though it was easily visible (he didn't name the supermarket). It is very familiar to me since my wife and I shop there regularly. Robeson couldn't name a single store in the mini-mall across the street from the market even though there's a Radio Shack outlet next to that HRO. That HRO has now moved again (they had a window sign announcing that for weeks) and we will see if Robeson wants to repeat all of his lies about being in any one of them. :-) >>> > Robeson imagined himself to be a "real" GSgt, a DILL sergeant >>> > who GIVES orders and is immune to any criticsm. :-) > >>> Sorry Anderson Amateur Radio >>>IS NOT<<< Boot Camp! > >> Guess the wannabe DILL sergeant told me, huh? :-) > >well real boot camp would pleasenter than what Robesin would devise > >I know Boot camp was accuauly the most fun I had in the army Brian and I were being sarcastic about "boot camp." The US Army and the USAF *never* had "boot camp." In those branches is was called BASIC TRAINING. It still is and is usually referred to familiarly as just "Basic." I "took Basic" at Camp Gordon (now Fort Gordon) which was in 1952 a Signal Corps center and now THE Center for Army Signal Corps. We had to learn basic infantryman soldiering, how to "close with the enemy and destroy them." No fun in that part of Georgia near Agusta. The only communications taught in Basic were courier duties and connecting/using an EE-8 Field Telephone plus laying field wire (real grunt work carrying that auto-pay-out wire box on a back pack). After 8 weeks of Basic we were assigned to Signal Schools...Field Radio and TTY at Gordon, radar-microwave-photography at Ft. Monmouth, NJ. For me, "fun" didn't begin until Monmouth and the ability to actually handle radios, examine their guts and theory, use them on the air. Things have changed greatly in military communications since 54 years ago. The Field Radio MOS long since became extinct and with it the need to learn manual radio- telegraphy. HF radio is still taught but more as an adjunct to VHF radios common from small units to battalion level...the SINCGARS family of digital voice/data, optional frequency-hopping and encrypted modes with a quarter million produced since 1989 and all operational...to be replaced soon with a compatible but upgraded family of radios with more and better features. HT-sized SINCGARS-compatible radios are being used in Iraq and Afghanistan now (you can see them on news telecasts). The ONLY radiotelegraphy classes are centered at the Military Intelligence School at Ft. Huachuca and that for (passive, listening-only) Intercept Analysis purposes, not communications. Some non-active or never-serving morsemen in here have insisted that Special Forces "use" radiotelegraphy since a Special Forces Communications Sergeant MOS is required to know that. Special Forces are very macho in image but they, like the USN SEALs, are a very small group of specialists, for (as their name implies) Special operations. The major Army and land-force marines effort is done by regular land soldiers. "Behind the lines" (quaint euphemism) comms can be done by regular land signal units by encrypted data over VHF-UHF, relay by aircraft or satellite, extemely hard to intercept. Even in the 1990 First Gulf War there was no "CW" used from "Behind enemy lines." The AN/PSC-3 did that or, in a few locations inside Iraq, by VHF voice or data. The extreme mobility of USA land forces now, and in 1990, is described in the many land-forces reports done on the First Gulf War, namely Operation "73-Easting." The final hundred hours of the First Gulf War outdid the best panzerfaust actions of Rommel in North Africa of 1942- 1943. About two orders of magnitude better. One thing that the American military did copy from Rommel's units was "Nevis" or NVIS, Near Vertical Incidence Skywave, short-distance ionospheric bounce that some hams deride as "cloud burning." Nevis works rather well and has been a field procedure in USA-USMC-USAF land-to-land comms for at least a quarter century. World War 2 was over 61 years ago. Vietnam War was over 33 years go. The First Gulf War started (and finished almost as quickly) 16 years ago. The Korean War went into a state of perpetual Truce 53 years ago. Amateur morsemen still gorge their imaginations on the Titanic disaster CW comms of 94 years ago. Time has gone on and technology has changed...for all but those hidebound morsemen are still pipe-dreaming their imagined glory and self-steam after watching old WW2 movies on late-night TV, demanding that future amateurs learn morse to defend their homeland. :-) LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229305 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <1156572081.303410.216040@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156695436.006186.215170@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1156785256.069644.201200@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156792713.040407.124420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156811317.904136.25960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 20:49:23 GMT Jim Kelley wrote: > Or maybe it was just too hard for you. It was impossible for anyone to solve without having a math model for the sources. > How about a simpler problem then: This is not simpler - it is contradictory. It provides a constant power source with nowhere for the source power to go during steady-state. If you change the source to a Thevenin equivalent then it can be solved. > XMTR--X--one second long lossless feedline---infinite ohms > PS=100W Please explain how the XMTR can supply 100W during steady- state? Where does the 100 joules/sec go? As stated, this problem, like your other one, is impossible to resolve. If you change the source to a Thevenin equivalent 141.42V and 50 ohm source impedance and specify Z=50 ohms feedline impedance then the problem becomes solvable. The answer is that 200 joules exist in the feedline and, contrary to what W7EL states, will dissipate in the source resistance after the source voltage goes to zero. Note the source resistance is the only resistance in the entire circuit. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229306 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:15:59 -0700 Message-ID: References: <1156811317.904136.25960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 12:49:43 -0700, Jim Kelley wrote: >Richard Clark wrote: > >> On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 11:03:39 -0700, Jim Kelley >> wrote: >> >> >>>How many Joules are stored in the transmission line? >> >> >> 100 > >That may be the correct solution to a somewhat different problem. > Hi Jim, So, with a wrong answer (and a direct answer at that, imagine!). Do I warrant the "correct" answer? 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229307 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "bookburn" Subject: Trojan horse warning Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 13:50:08 -0800 Message-ID: <12fhaomm5s1be94@corp.supernews.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C6CDCD.89991AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A day or so ago I was searching the Internet, looking for a discone = antenna. Today, after a routine virus scan of my system, I see that = ZoneAlarm quaranteened a Win32.Softomate trojan horse, which it = described as a dangerous "back door" type that lodged in my registry. = It was able to delete it, but evidently the thing was able to get = through both the ZoneAlarm and Microsoft firewalls undetected. I mention this here because, in trying to retrace my steps to deduce = where the trojan horse probably came from, I remember one person's site = visited looking for a discone antenna. It was different in that I was = led to a page where I clicked on a link that turned out to be a page of = dumb girly pics. I exited right away, but it seems possible something = got downloaded. So keep your antenna up. Robinson Carusoe =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C6CDCD.89991AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A day or so ago I was searching the = Internet,=20 looking for a discone antenna.  Today, after a routine virus = scan of=20 my system, I see that = ZoneAlarm quaranteened a Win32.Softomate=20 trojan horse, which it described as a dangerous "back door" type that = lodged in=20 my registry.  It was able to delete it, but evidently the thing was = able to=20 get through both the ZoneAlarm and Microsoft firewalls = undetected.
 
I mention this here because, in trying = to retrace=20 my steps to deduce where the trojan horse probably came from, I remember = one=20 person's site visited looking for a = discone=20 antenna.  It was different in that I was led to a page where I = clicked on a=20 link that turned out to be a page of dumb girly pics.  I = exited right=20 away, but it seems possible something got downloaded.
 
So keep your antenna up.
 
Robinson Carusoe =20
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C6CDCD.89991AA0-- Article: 229308 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <1156811317.904136.25960@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 22:13:32 GMT Richard Clark wrote: > So, with a wrong answer (and a direct answer at that, imagine!). Do I > warrant the "correct" answer? With Jim's lackadaisical approach to conservation of energy, there is no "correct" answer. He didn't even tell you what the forward and reflected power readings were. He also doesn't seem to realize that a 100W XMTR cannot force any power into an infinite load. I am trying to apply some boundary conditions that will remedy that problem. So Richard, what do you think happens when a constant power output XMTR is facing an infinite load? What happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229309 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Trojan horse warning Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:19:29 -0700 Message-ID: References: <12fhaomm5s1be94@corp.supernews.com> On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 13:50:08 -0800, "bookburn" wrote: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Why in a text-only forum? I also notice that you use Microsoft Outlook Express and that this "Trojan horse" is specific to Internet Explorer as an advertising toolbar. Given that you are publishing MIME format to this group, and that your browser picked up an infection, you should review the security settings AND publishing preferences for both M$ tools. Another solution is to switch to securer platforms like Firefox for browsing and another newsgroup (and email) reader (I use Agent which is absolutely untied from DLLs). 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229310 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:24:13 -0700 Message-ID: References: On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 22:13:32 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >With Jim's lackadaisical approach to conservation of >energy, there is no "correct" answer. A long winded answer for you don't know. Talk about lackadaisical with all the fluff cut off the end of this too. Article: 229311 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: Message-ID: Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 22:49:12 GMT Richard Clark wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> With Jim's lackadaisical approach to conservation of >> energy, there is no "correct" answer. > > A long winded answer for you don't know. Only a fool would venture an answer under the boundary conditions defined by Jim. 100 watts into an infinite load is impossible. The answer is the same as the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229312 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: zware Subject: Re: Trojan horse warning Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 22:59:38 -0000 Message-ID: <12fheqqg1sievc2@corp.supernews.com> References: <12fhaomm5s1be94@corp.supernews.com> Stop using IE and Outlook. Msft only provides protection for a price. Set your news reader options to read and post only text, no HTML. Set your emailer the same, text only. Turn off javascript in your web browser's preferences/options. If you really need it on, then make sure it's worth the risk and turn it back off when you're done. Turn off all non-essential system services when connected to the net. The only ports you should show listening on windows are 135 and 1025 (AFAIK they can't be turned off) and they should be set to be blocked by your firewall. Good luck and safe surfing. Article: 229313 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 16:13:26 -0700 Message-ID: <13fhf2t04nugs89ba15l0u9a6bq9jip3du@4ax.com> References: On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 22:49:12 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Richard Clark wrote: >> Cecil Moore wrote: >>> With Jim's lackadaisical approach to conservation of >>> energy, there is no "correct" answer. >> >> A long winded answer for you don't know. > >Only a fool would venture an answer under the boundary >conditions defined by Jim. a lackadaisical 14 word apology replacing a 3 word admission of not knowing - and across two postings. No doubt this will be followed by: 1. more lackadaisical postings; 2. more lackadaisical words; 3. no answer. It's curious that you haven't denied that 100 Joules is NOT the right answer! At least Jim went that far, if no further. In a two man race you have managed to put yourself in third place. Article: 229314 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: solidgoldZZZ@optonline.net (Ron in NY) Subject: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Message-ID: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:38:34 GMT I got a tube of GB Ox-Gard OX-100 to coat the sections of my Butternut HF9V vertical as I assemble it. I looked on both the tube, the packaging, and the GB website, but none of them indicate whether the product is silicone grease based or petroleum grease based. Does anyone out there know ??? ======================================================== Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail. Article: 229315 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Message-ID: <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:56:26 GMT On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:38:34 GMT, solidgoldZZZ@optonline.net (Ron in NY) wrote: >I got a tube of GB Ox-Gard OX-100 to coat the sections of my Butternut HF9V >vertical as I assemble it. I looked on both the tube, the packaging, and the GB >website, but none of them indicate whether the product is silicone grease based >or petroleum grease based. Does anyone out there know ??? In this country, there is regulation that requires availability of a Material Safety Data Sheet (which contains such information), and they are on a public web site. Perhaps you have similar arrangements in your jurisdiction. Owen -- Article: 229316 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt) Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 00:22:51 -0000 Message-ID: <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> In article <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com>, Owen Duffy wrote: >>I got a tube of GB Ox-Gard OX-100 to coat the sections of my Butternut HF9V >>vertical as I assemble it. I looked on both the tube, the packaging, and the GB >>website, but none of them indicate whether the product is silicone grease based >>or petroleum grease based. Does anyone out there know ??? > >In this country, there is regulation that requires availability of a >Material Safety Data Sheet (which contains such information), and they >are on a public web site. Perhaps you have similar arrangements in >your jurisdiction. I just located an MSDS for Ox-Gard via a web search, and it's quite unrevealing. It doesn't identify the ingredients except to say that they're non-toxic, and it doesn't identify a flash point. It did say that combustion could release CO2 and aldehydes. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! Article: 229317 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 17:23:23 -0700 Message-ID: References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:56:26 GMT, Owen Duffy wrote: >On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:38:34 GMT, solidgoldZZZ@optonline.net (Ron in >NY) wrote: > >>I got a tube of GB Ox-Gard OX-100 to coat the sections of my Butternut HF9V >>vertical as I assemble it. I looked on both the tube, the packaging, and the GB >>website, but none of them indicate whether the product is silicone grease based >>or petroleum grease based. Does anyone out there know ??? > >In this country, there is regulation that requires availability of a >Material Safety Data Sheet (which contains such information), and they >are on a public web site. Perhaps you have similar arrangements in >your jurisdiction. Hi Owen, That information has been considered a secret that is vital to the interests of the United States of the Republican Party and is on the list of items not allowed on board airplanes, nor to be transported by skateboard across the border of any state contiguously bordering Texas, except Venezuela. Those Data Sheets have been removed from the public archive by the CIA so as to eliminate any possibility of this newly classified material falling into the hands of terrorists. Don't ask us about toothpaste or the FBI's network monitoring will kick into mauve alert level. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229318 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Message-ID: References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 00:51:37 GMT On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 17:23:23 -0700, Richard Clark wrote: >On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:56:26 GMT, Owen Duffy wrote: > >>On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:38:34 GMT, solidgoldZZZ@optonline.net (Ron in >>NY) wrote: >> >>>I got a tube of GB Ox-Gard OX-100 to coat the sections of my Butternut HF9V >>>vertical as I assemble it. I looked on both the tube, the packaging, and the GB >>>website, but none of them indicate whether the product is silicone grease based >>>or petroleum grease based. Does anyone out there know ??? >> >>In this country, there is regulation that requires availability of a >>Material Safety Data Sheet (which contains such information), and they >>are on a public web site. Perhaps you have similar arrangements in >>your jurisdiction. > >Hi Owen, > >That information has been considered a secret that is vital to the >interests of the United States of the Republican Party and is on the >list of items not allowed on board airplanes, nor to be transported by >skateboard across the border of any state contiguously bordering >Texas, except Venezuela. Those Data Sheets have been removed from the >public archive by the CIA so as to eliminate any possibility of this >newly classified material falling into the hands of terrorists. > >Don't ask us about toothpaste or the FBI's network monitoring will >kick into mauve alert level. Oh well, it was worth a try. What I didn't add, was that you may need to be a chemist to work out what the components are, or to use Dave's hints and work out what is in it that produces those combustion products. I was just chatting with a friend who lugged his 2m gear up on a mountain top here in the national capital to work some AE DX. A newspaper reporter noticed him and came back with camera to do a story. I don't know if the public will understand that although he is using directional apparatus to bound electromagnetic radiation off passenger aircraft, that it is truly safe for all involved. Wait a minute, no one has been able to prove radio frequency EM radiation to be safe, have they? Owen -- Article: 229319 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 20:27:38 -0500 From: Tom Ring Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: Message-ID: <44f8de0a$0$6150$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Cecil Moore wrote: > Richard Clark wrote: > >> Cecil Moore wrote: >> >>> With Jim's lackadaisical approach to conservation of >>> energy, there is no "correct" answer. >> >> >> A long winded answer for you don't know. > > > Only a fool would venture an answer under the boundary > conditions defined by Jim. 100 watts into an infinite > load is impossible. The answer is the same as the > number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin. I may be a relative simpleton here, but the transmitter won't know that for 2 seconds, Cecil. I bet some power may manage to get into the transmission line. tom K0TAR Article: 229320 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 20:37:57 -0500 From: Tom Ring Subject: Re: REG EDWARDS. CHEERS! References: <1157040328.531086.156050@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <44f8e075$0$1008$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Penguin wrote: > Many thanks for all the kind words about Reg. I'm new to newsgroups but > have followed avidly dad's two favourite groups over the last 24 hours. > (It somehow makes me feel closer to him). I'm especially pleased to > read that you are trying to keep dad's website alive (cheers for that) > and also the postings from those who say they are still learning from > his programs. Dad was definitely all for education and it would have > warmed the cockles of his heart to have read such postings. (Somehow, I > think he is reading them and will be watching you from afar). My > brother Pete is the one to do all the technical 'stuff' in preserving > the website, My "technical"experience concerning antenna only extends > to remembering to remove the aerial before entering the car wash! TTFN > Jean Proctor.( Reg's proud daughter) > If you need a place to put the site, feel free to contact me. My boss, also a ham, would be happy to do it, although I haven't asked him yet. ;) A high bandwidth home is availabe for free if you'd like. And no, none of the rest of you are welcome. tom K0TAR Article: 229321 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Subject: Re: Ethical question Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:54:31 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: In rec.radio.shortwave Slow Code wrote: > If you were in a crowded radio store and had to fart. Would you endure the > pain and hold it in until you were alone, or would you silently let it out > and hope someone else gets blamed for it? The best course is to go stand next to an old lady, preferably one who looks wealthy. Let fly with your pressure-release, then turn to the old lady and whisper loudly, "Look innocent, lady, and everybody will think that *I* did it!" :-) Article: 229322 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <13fhf2t04nugs89ba15l0u9a6bq9jip3du@4ax.com> Message-ID: <7M5Kg.20159$kO3.14739@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:12:19 GMT Richard Clark wrote: > It's curious that you haven't denied that 100 Joules is NOT the right > answer! I also haven't denied that 100 angels cannot dance on the head of a pin for exactly the same reasons. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229323 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:14:04 GMT Dave Platt wrote: > It did say that combustion could release CO2 ... Al Gore will get you for that! -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229324 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <44f8de0a$0$6150$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Message-ID: <8_5Kg.20162$kO3.16600@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:27:16 GMT Tom Ring wrote: > I may be a relative simpleton here, but the transmitter won't know that > for 2 seconds, Cecil. I bet some power may manage to get into the > transmission line. Of course, I said that it was possible from a Thevenin equivalent circuit. But Jim said the XMTR was putting out 100 watts into an infinite load during steady- state, obviously an impossible mental boundary condition. A Thevenin equivalent circuit will supply 100 joules/sec into the feedline and then stop supplying power. That is not an impossible mental boundary condition. I'm ready to discuss that configuration. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229325 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Ethical question References: Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:29:02 GMT kuzen001@duke.edu wrote: > The best course is to go stand next to an old lady, > preferably one who looks wealthy. Let fly with your > pressure-release, then turn to the old lady and whisper > loudly, "Look innocent, lady, and everybody will think > that *I* did it!" :-) That actually happened in a movie at Texas A&M during the 1950's. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229326 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: trolling right along Date: 1 Sep 2006 19:30:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1157164222.192542.259610@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Slow Code wrote: > Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote in news:inuef2lf28as7au0a7ithmdfgpbo56o24l@4ax.com: > > You might have gotten some priviledges, but that was only because ham > radio has been dumbed down and you didn't have to make an effort to earn > them. funy how for all you claim to be better than I and better than those that agree with me on code tesing Our view is going to prevail trolling right along Article: 229327 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 1 Sep 2006 19:32:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1157164325.885558.260220@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Slow Code wrote: > "LenAnderson@ieee.org" wrote in > news:1157078311.728705.311920@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com: > > Thank you, Rick! You spoke volumes of reality in this new > > millennium. > > > > And you're still just as stupid as you were before you read it. trolling right along Article: 229328 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Sun Tzu Subject: Re: Ground screen material Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 16:55:43 -1000 References: <44f56310$0$8857$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <1156941847.106675.320640@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <44f8e525$0$19663$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 05:44:07 -0700, Denny wrote: > Best bet is aluminum porch screen... Lay it down in a square under the > antenna... Attach radial wires and carry them out as far as you can... You > can also get aluminum roof flashing in several widths... I used this for > my 160 and 80 meter radial experiments last summer... I have several rolls > of 24" wide on the shelf right now waiting for the next burst of antenna > testing... > > denny How do you attach aluminum screen to copper radials? disimilar metals problem? Diode? -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229329 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Felix Subject: Antenna Theory Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:01:21 +0000 Message-ID: Antenna Theory: There are many textbooks telling that an antenna to be effcient needs "much wire in the air". Now the time has come to correct this view. This new view is based on many practical tests on all HF bands over a year. As en example read the email below. The antenna used for this contact was 3 meters long and 1.5 m above ground. (= RoomCap Antenna) The contact was on the 160m band over a distance of 600 Km. Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 22:57:42 +0200 From: Heino Held To: hb9abx (at) tiscali.ch Subject: Mobilantenne oder Festantenne Hallo Felix, nach unserem tollen QSO auf 160m waren Peter (DL1BLD) und ich (Heino, DJ5ER) total erstaunt mit welch einer tollen Feldstaerke Du in Bremen angekommen bist. Wie man eine solche Antenne bauen kann moechten wir gerne wissen (auch fuer die anderen KW-Baender). 73 aus Bremen von Peter (DL1BLD) und Heino - DJ5ER --- --- Translation of text: Hello Felix, after our fantastic QSO on 160m we (Peter,DL1BLD) and I (Heino, DJ5ER) we were completely surprised with what a strong field strength you arrived in Bremen. We would like to know how such an antenna can be built (also for the other HF bands). 73 from Bremen .... --- --- Heino will receive the construction guide. Best regards Felix HB9ABX -- Felix Article: 229330 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Subject: Best, reasonably priced SWR meter?? Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:47:44 -0500 Message-ID: <833if2pn84r5mfafgj8olqijc483iu9rrv@4ax.com> I am getting such wild differences between the meter on my IC736 and that on the MFJ969, that I feel that I need a 3d meter to tell me which of the others to believe. would appreciate suggestions on something for HF 100W and less than $100. thanks chas ... Article: 229331 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 22:05:05 -0700 Message-ID: <814if2tgkdir20go2dhogfmd7la0ltftn0@4ax.com> References: <13fhf2t04nugs89ba15l0u9a6bq9jip3du@4ax.com> <7M5Kg.20159$kO3.14739@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:12:19 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Richard Clark wrote: >> It's curious that you haven't denied that 100 Joules is NOT the right >> answer! > >I also haven't denied that 100 angels cannot dance on >the head of a pin for exactly the same reasons. So, you have a reason to agree that 100 Joules is the right answer? Boy, talk about getting respect for a straight answer to a straight question. I'll let you two get back to your burlesque act. (I would have called it vaudeville, but its like waiting for the stripper's pasties to fall off.) Article: 229332 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Best, reasonably priced SWR meter?? Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 22:06:36 -0700 Message-ID: References: <833if2pn84r5mfafgj8olqijc483iu9rrv@4ax.com> On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:47:44 -0500, wrote: >I am getting such wild differences between the meter on my IC736 and that on >the MFJ969, that I feel that I need a 3d meter to tell me which of the others >to believe. Hi Chas, Maybe you should first eliminate the possibility of having common mode problems. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229333 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Mr. Presumptive" References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:09:48 -0400 Message-ID: <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:MN5Kg.20160$kO3.15313@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com... > Dave Platt wrote: > > It did say that combustion could release CO2 ... > > Al Gore will get you for that! > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp My cousin is a Dairy Farmer in PA. His cows produce more CO2 per hour than three GMC Pickup trucks running at idle for the same time period. Wonder how Mr Goore would address this problem? Diapers for cows perhaps? (grin) Back on topic however, when you get back to the office next week, just place a call to the mfgr of the product and ask him to FAX or e-mail you a .pdf file copy of the Product MSDS sheet. Tell them you're using it at your place of employment for anti-corrosion usages for commercial antenna installations and your ISO:9000-2000 Internal Quality Procedures Manual mandates that all products have an MSDS sheet on file. I use this 'method' all the time and it seems to work. : ) Article: 229334 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Antenna Theory Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 22:08:45 -0700 Message-ID: References: On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:01:21 +0000, Felix wrote: >There are many textbooks telling that an antenna >to be effcient needs "much wire in the air". Were they written by Joe Miller? Article: 229335 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Trojan horse warning Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 22:33:52 -0700 Message-ID: <12fi5u5rj32shce@corp.supernews.com> References: <12fhaomm5s1be94@corp.supernews.com> <12fheqqg1sievc2@corp.supernews.com> I've got an additional bit of advice. Be very cautious about what you delete after being told by a program that it's malware. The programs I use have targeted quite a number of innocent files as allegedly being malware. Not too long ago, I had to spend considerable time writing code to replace a purchased third-party utility package which had been part of EZNEC for years. Some of the spyware/adware programs had decided, completely incorrectly, that it was some evil spyware. I finally got tired of customers asking why EZNEC wouldn't run, then having to explain that it was because they'd deleted a file that it uses and needs. Browse through the testimonials for the various malware-detection programs and you'll see "Wow! Found 14 files none of the other ones found!" Yeah, and those are some of the same ones you'll see comments like this for: "I began using XXX, and now I can't connect with the Internet." or ". . . and now my computer won't boot." Or, ". . . and now EZNEC won't run." There's a lot of poor software out there. Don't blindly believe everything it tells you. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 229336 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 22:42:03 -0700 Message-ID: <12fi6dg9chktqbb@corp.supernews.com> References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> Soak a bit up with a piece of paper or cardboard and light it with a match, and you'll have the answer in seconds. Petroleum based grease will burn like crazy but silicone based grease won't. But why do you need to know? Roy Lewallen, W7EL Ron in NY wrote: > I got a tube of GB Ox-Gard OX-100 to coat the sections of my Butternut HF9V > vertical as I assemble it. I looked on both the tube, the packaging, and the GB > website, but none of them indicate whether the product is silicone grease based > or petroleum grease based. Does anyone out there know ??? > ======================================================== > Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail. Article: 229337 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Best, reasonably priced SWR meter?? Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 22:45:23 -0700 Message-ID: <12fi6jnajvvos1b@corp.supernews.com> References: <833if2pn84r5mfafgj8olqijc483iu9rrv@4ax.com> Richard Clark wrote: > On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:47:44 -0500, wrote: > >> I am getting such wild differences between the meter on my IC736 and that on >> the MFJ969, that I feel that I need a 3d meter to tell me which of the others >> to believe. > > Hi Chas, > > Maybe you should first eliminate the possibility of having common mode > problems. Yes, you wouldn't happen to be using an off-center fed dipole type antenna by any chance? Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 229338 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "n3ox.dan@gmail.com" Subject: Re: Antenna Theory Date: 1 Sep 2006 22:47:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1157176065.036629.143870@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: Felix, dude, repeat after me: "We believe in the one way, the addition of fields, radiated from wires, combined spatially in phase to give gain, or loss, or fire in the case of too much loss. We believe in the fundemental difficulty of delivering power efficiently to physically small radiating structures, and we understand the limitations it places on such structures as compared to their full-size counterparts. We believe in the QSO, and that any antenna can provide many enjoyable ones. We believe in your puny 160m signal, that we dug from the noise with our phased Beverages, and replied in kind with our legal limit and transmitting four-square, and you received us well, yea and verily, despite your use of a dummy-load. We believe in the gain, 20dB or more, that an antenna may exhibit when it or its plans are meant to be sold. We believe in the measurement, scientific and clear, showing clear quantitative comparisons to a suitable reference aerial; let it now be done, or may you fall silent." 73, Dan Article: 229339 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: bookburn Subject: Re: Trojan horse warning Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 21:53:07 -0800 Message-ID: References: <12fhaomm5s1be94@corp.supernews.com> <12fheqqg1sievc2@corp.supernews.com> <12fi5u5rj32shce@corp.supernews.com> On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 21:33:52 -0800, Roy Lewallen wrote: > I've got an additional bit of advice. > > Be very cautious about what you delete after being told by a program > that it's malware. The programs I use have targeted quite a number of > innocent files as allegedly being malware. Not too long ago, I had to > spend considerable time writing code to replace a purchased third-party > utility package which had been part of EZNEC for years. Some of the > spyware/adware programs had decided, completely incorrectly, that it was > some evil spyware. I finally got tired of customers asking why EZNEC > wouldn't run, then having to explain that it was because they'd deleted > a file that it uses and needs. > > Browse through the testimonials for the various malware-detection > programs and you'll see "Wow! Found 14 files none of the other ones > found!" Yeah, and those are some of the same ones you'll see comments > like this for: "I began using XXX, and now I can't connect with the > Internet." or ". . . and now my computer won't boot." Or, ". . . and now > EZNEC won't run." There's a lot of poor software out there. Don't > blindly believe everything it tells you. > > Roy Lewallen, W7EL I found my Outlook Express had correct settings, but not using them, plus the blocked senders list was no longer working after I erased stuff there. So now, as suggested, I am off IE and OE and have gone to Firefox and Opera. Maybe I'll check out the new IE 7 when it gets out, though. Thanks for the heads up. Robinson Carusoe -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ Article: 229340 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: bookburn Subject: Re: Trojan horse warning Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 22:34:09 -0800 Message-ID: References: <12fhaomm5s1be94@corp.supernews.com> <12fheqqg1sievc2@corp.supernews.com> <12fi5u5rj32shce@corp.supernews.com> > On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 21:33:52 -0800, Roy Lewallen wrote: > >> I've got an additional bit of advice. >> >> Be very cautious about what you delete after being told by a program >> that it's malware. The programs I use have targeted quite a number of >> innocent files as allegedly being malware. Not too long ago, I had to >> spend considerable time writing code to replace a purchased third-party >> utility package which had been part of EZNEC for years. Some of the >> spyware/adware programs had decided, completely incorrectly, that it >> was some evil spyware. I finally got tired of customers asking why >> EZNEC wouldn't run, then having to explain that it was because they'd >> deleted a file that it uses and needs. >> >> Browse through the testimonials for the various malware-detection >> programs and you'll see "Wow! Found 14 files none of the other ones >> found!" Yeah, and those are some of the same ones you'll see comments >> like this for: "I began using XXX, and now I can't connect with the >> Internet." or ". . . and now my computer won't boot." Or, ". . . and >> now EZNEC won't run." There's a lot of poor software out there. Don't >> blindly believe everything it tells you. >> >> Roy Lewallen, W7EL > > I found my Outlook Express had correct settings, but not using them, > plus the blocked senders list was no longer working after I erased stuff > there. > > So now, as suggested, I am off IE and OE and have gone to Firefox and > Opera. Maybe I'll check out the new IE 7 when it gets out, though. > > Thanks for the heads up. > > Robinson Carusoe > > > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ Article: 229341 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 06:46:27 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > Dave Platt wrote: > >> It did say that combustion could release CO2 ... > > > Al Gore will get you for that! Yeah! The Almighty Politicians! Everytime I exhale [CO2 and H2O vapor] I raise the CO2 polution level. We simply have to pass a law outlawing exhaling without using a catalytic converter. Article: 229342 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Wimpie" Subject: Re: Antenna Theory Date: 2 Sep 2006 05:36:40 -0700 Message-ID: <1157200600.423389.327200@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Hello Felix, Regarding antennas that are very small with respect to wavelength. With regards to your example, no correction to antenna theory is necessary. Small antennas can be efficient radiators, but the smaller the antenna, the more difficult to achieve reasonable efficiency. Antenna theory is well established. When you know the current distribution in a structure, one can calculate (mathematically or numerically) how much power is radiated (and also how much power is dissipated in the structure). This approach is used by virtually all Antenna Design software packages. All electrically small antennas have one thing in common, the usable bandwidth is small. The Q-factor of a lossless electrically small structure is proportional to about 0.05*lambda^3/Volume. For example a small loop of thin material with infinite conductivity has higher Q-factor than a loop of same diameter, but made of very wide strip (with infinite conductivity). The last one occupies more volume and therefore has lower natural Q. The Q-factor of practically small antennas can be that high that the bandwidth may by just a few kHz. The problem is in the matching. Matching, for example 0.8 Ohms in series with a reactance of 2800 Ohm (Q=3500), to 50 ohms is not easy. The Q-factor of the components is not high enough, some or most power is dissipated in the additional components, or even the antenna wire itself. So in the end your antenna may have an overall efficiency of 5% (-13 dB). Also voltages can be that high that power is lost by corona effects. Often, due to the high local E- and H-fields, power is lost in nearby constructions. About the practical use of small antennas. In many cases received signal levels are in the S9+20 dB range. As the noise level is far below this, loosing 13 dB (so your signal level will be S9+7 dB), is acceptable. If not, you may increase the input power. In the end, the small inefficient antenna is at least better then no antenna. So in my believe, a nice QSO over 600 km with a small antenna, doesn't prove that antenna theory has to be revised. I'm very curious to see the construction details. Best regards, Wim PA3DJS. Article: 229343 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Ground screen material References: <44f56310$0$8857$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> <1156941847.106675.320640@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <44f8e525$0$19663$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> Message-ID: <6lfKg.562$MF1.255@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 13:06:10 GMT Sun Tzu wrote: > How do you attach aluminum screen to copper radials? Someone said there was copper plated aluminum wire. One would think there exists somewhere an adapter device for going from copper to aluminum. Wouldn't the TV cable company have such an adapter? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229344 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <13fhf2t04nugs89ba15l0u9a6bq9jip3du@4ax.com> <7M5Kg.20159$kO3.14739@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <814if2tgkdir20go2dhogfmd7la0ltftn0@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 13:15:02 GMT Richard Clark wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> I also haven't denied that 100 angels cannot dance on >> the head of a pin for exactly the same reasons. > > So, you have a reason to agree that 100 Joules is the right answer? As the problem was stated, I have NO reason to include 100 joules in the set of correct answers. I also have NO reason to exclude 100 joules from the set of correct answers. If Jim had specified that the forward power and reflected power in the one-second long lossless stub was 50 watts each during steady-state, then we could conclude that there is 100 joules in the feedline. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229345 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 13:16:58 GMT Mr. Presumptive wrote: > My cousin is a Dairy Farmer in PA. > His cows produce more CO2 per hour > than three GMC Pickup trucks running > at idle for the same time period. Wonder how > Mr Goore would address this problem? > Diapers for cows perhaps? (grin) The Space Shuttle is equipped with CO2 scrubbers. Just install one per cow. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229346 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Best, reasonably priced SWR meter?? References: <833if2pn84r5mfafgj8olqijc483iu9rrv@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 13:28:20 GMT aRKay wrote: > If you think the SWR readings are wild, try the output power readings. > I have three meters and they all read different. Is one on the input of a tuner and another on the output of the tuner? Those two forward power readings can be wildly different. So are SWR meter readings. (Just thought of Reg and his TLI meters.) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229347 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 13:30:12 GMT Dave wrote: > Everytime I exhale [CO2 and H2O vapor] I raise the CO2 polution level. > We simply have to pass a law outlawing exhaling without using a > catalytic converter. Did you know it was human campfires that caused global warming and brought us out of the last ice age? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229348 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Antenna Theory References: Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 13:55:21 GMT Felix wrote: > Antenna Theory: > > There are many textbooks telling that an antenna > to be effcient needs "much wire in the air". > Now the time has come to correct this view. What textbooks say that? EZNEC says that a 3 meter tall monopole has a maximum gain of 1.5 dBi on 160m while a 38 meter 1/4WL monopole has a maximum gain of 1.36 dBi. In other words, they radiate approximately equally well both with high radiation efficiencies. The problem is not with the antenna's ability to radiate. The problem is in getting the RF energy into the antenna. The problem is not with losses in the antenna. The problem is finding an efficient j2250 inductor for the matching network. If we knew what your matching network looks like, we could estimate its efficiency. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229349 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:50:27 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> Message-ID: Mr. Presumptive wrote: > "Cecil Moore" wrote in message > news:MN5Kg.20160$kO3.15313@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com... > >>Dave Platt wrote: >> >>>It did say that combustion could release CO2 ... >> >>Al Gore will get you for that! >>-- >>73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > > > My cousin is a Dairy Farmer in PA. > His cows produce more CO2 per hour > than three GMC Pickup trucks running > at idle for the same time period. Wonder how > Mr Goore would address this problem? > Diapers for cows perhaps? (grin) Methane, Dave. I won't say that global warming is happening or not. However, the science is sound regarding CO2, methane, and other gases that tend to retain heat in the atmosphere. The relationship between these levels and heat retention is fact. Perhaps there are mitigating factors going on. Perhaps ocean life can sequester the excess CO2, perhaps something else? Instead of picking on "Mr Goore", perhaps you folks that know better can provide scientific evidence of the mechanisms that are countering the so called "greenhouse effects. 8^) > Back on topic however, when you get back to the office > next week, just place a call to the mfgr of the product and > ask him to FAX or e-mail you a .pdf file copy of the > Product MSDS sheet. Tell them you're using it at your place > of employment for anti-corrosion usages for commercial > antenna installations and your ISO:9000-2000 Internal > Quality Procedures Manual mandates that all products have > an MSDS sheet on file. I use this 'method' all the time and > it seems to work. : ) A nice Ox-Gard page: http://www.olypen.com/craigh/oxgard.htm But cannot find an msds 8^( - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229350 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Wayne" References: Subject: Re: Ethical question Message-ID: <8WgKg.2886$CL6.1535@trnddc06> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 14:53:56 GMT >> The best course is to go stand next to an old lady, >> preferably one who looks wealthy. Let fly with your >> pressure-release, then turn to the old lady and whisper >> loudly, "Look innocent, lady, and everybody will think >> that *I* did it!" :-) > > That actually happened in a movie at Texas A&M during > the 1950's. > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp OK Cecil. I'll bite, since no one else has. How do you know that happened? Article: 229351 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Richard Fry" References: Subject: Re: Antenna Theory Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 11:36:58 -0500 Message-ID: <44f9811e_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> "Cecil Moore" > What textbooks say that? EZNEC says that a 3 meter > tall monopole has a maximum gain of 1.5 dBi on 160m > while a 38 meter 1/4WL monopole has a maximum gain > of 1.36 dBi. In other words, they radiate approximately > equally well both with high radiation efficiencies. > > The problem is not with the antenna's ability to > radiate. The problem is in getting the RF energy > into the antenna. > > The problem is not with losses in the antenna. The > problem is finding an efficient j2250 inductor for > the matching network. _____________ Radiation resistance, and the r-f resistance in the path for induced ground currents back into a practical antenna system have a larger effect, though. Here are some numbers for two vertical monopoles of about the same scale of height to width. If in both cases the matching network has a 2 ohm loss, there is a 10 ohm loss in the r-f ground connection, and both antenna systems present a 1:1 match to the tx, then with equal tx power output the peak power actually radiated by a 1/4-wave monopole will be about 65X (18 dB) greater than by a 3-meter monopole on 160 meters. RF Article: 229352 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 16:46:33 GMT Mike Coslo wrote: > I won't say that global warming is happening or not. Of course, global warming is happening. It has been going on for tens of thousands of years and happens every time the earth cyclically emerges from an ice age as it is doing now. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229353 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Antenna Theory References: <44f9811e_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> Message-ID: <%HiKg.14158$1f6.11833@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 16:55:23 GMT Richard Fry wrote: > If in both cases the matching network has a 2 ohm loss, there is a 10 > ohm loss in the r-f ground connection, ... Thanks, I should have said the problem is getting the RF energy into the radiation resistance. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229354 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 13:05:24 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > Mike Coslo wrote: > >> I won't say that global warming is happening or not. > > > Of course, global warming is happening. It has been > going on for tens of thousands of years and happens > every time the earth cyclically emerges from an ice > age as it is doing now. I'm speaking of CO2 based global warming, whether as the results of say volcanic activity, or as a result of the amount of CO2 added to the atmosphere as a result of combustion release. May I assume that you believe that glacial cycles are the sole source of global warming or cooling? - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229355 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John - KD5YI Subject: Re: REG EDWARDS. CHEERS! References: <1157040328.531086.156050@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 17:05:39 GMT Penguin wrote: > Many thanks for all the kind words about Reg. I'm new to newsgroups but > have followed avidly dad's two favourite groups over the last 24 hours. > (It somehow makes me feel closer to him). I'm especially pleased to > read that you are trying to keep dad's website alive (cheers for that) > and also the postings from those who say they are still learning from > his programs. Dad was definitely all for education and it would have > warmed the cockles of his heart to have read such postings. (Somehow, I > think he is reading them and will be watching you from afar). My > brother Pete is the one to do all the technical 'stuff' in preserving > the website, My "technical"experience concerning antenna only extends > to remembering to remove the aerial before entering the car wash! TTFN > Jean Proctor.( Reg's proud daughter) > I was amazed at Reg's simple and pragmatic approach to very technical problems. His clear and concise prose made the most complex of problems understandable. When we meet again, I'll buy the next round. CHEERS, Reg! John KD5YI Article: 229356 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John - KD5YI Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 17:15:53 GMT Mike Coslo wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: > >> Mike Coslo wrote: >> >>> I won't say that global warming is happening or not. >> >> >> >> Of course, global warming is happening. It has been >> going on for tens of thousands of years and happens >> every time the earth cyclically emerges from an ice >> age as it is doing now. > > > > I'm speaking of CO2 based global warming, whether as the results of > say volcanic activity, or as a result of the amount of CO2 added to the > atmosphere as a result of combustion release. > > > May I assume that you believe that glacial cycles are the sole > source of global warming or cooling? > > - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Hey, Mike. The truth is inconvenient for Cecil. John Article: 229357 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:18:51 -0700 Message-ID: References: <13fhf2t04nugs89ba15l0u9a6bq9jip3du@4ax.com> <7M5Kg.20159$kO3.14739@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <814if2tgkdir20go2dhogfmd7la0ltftn0@4ax.com> On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 13:15:02 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >As the problem was stated, I have NO reason to ... blah, blah, blah, blah What a tedius excuse. My answer stands, contradicted but without ANY correction. There's no challenge in saying "'t'ain't so," or offering mea culpas, regrets, plea bargains, or reams of Xerox copies of plate tectonics as applied to transmission line theory. What a boring strip-tease.... Article: 229358 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Don" Subject: Alinco EDX-2 Auto-tuner to IC706 Date: 2 Sep 2006 10:25:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1157217920.482605.6330@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> This is an old question, but I see no answers yet. Anyone figured out how to get an Icom 706 to work with an Alinco EDX-2 tuner? I've made the corrections and the turner tunes but creates a 1:3 SWR into the Icom and of corse the rig won't work like that. I've also noticed that there is a "daughter board" inside the EDX-2 and wonder if the manufacturer has another daughter board that will permit (convert) the EDX-2 to an AH-3? I don't have an AH-3 to look at, but does it also have a daughter board? Schematic?? Thanks, Don>>>KE7NR Article: 229359 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:54:53 -0700 Message-ID: References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 17:15:53 GMT, John - KD5YI wrote: >Mike Coslo wrote: >> Cecil Moore wrote: >> >>> Mike Coslo wrote: >>> >>>> I won't say that global warming is happening or not. >>> >>> >>> >>> Of course, global warming is happening. It has been >>> going on for tens of thousands of years and happens >>> every time the earth cyclically emerges from an ice >>> age as it is doing now. >> >> >> >> I'm speaking of CO2 based global warming, whether as the results of >> say volcanic activity, or as a result of the amount of CO2 added to the >> atmosphere as a result of combustion release. >> >> >> May I assume that you believe that glacial cycles are the sole >> source of global warming or cooling? >> >> - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - > > > >Hey, Mike. The truth is inconvenient for Cecil. Hi John, Cecil's answer, like those of so many politicians, embraces a faulty premise to dismiss discussion. Imagine those same administration savants on the upcoming 5th anniversary asking for yet another board of enquiry for a study into the possibility of WMD in Iraq. That didn't happen, and yet we get this interminable "Global Warming isn't so, and it isn't from ____" (fill in the blank with any of a number of their favorite red herrings). What's the difference between WMD and Global Warming? What caused the rush to Iraq, but not to the melting glaciers? Wrap a side of bacon around Global Warming and it would be covered with Republicans like flies on their favorite nourishment. ...perhaps if the Eskimos had gotten to Jack Abramoff first instead of the casino Indians.... Hmmm, a thought occurred, and a little research reveals some interesting metrics. Oil at Nymex Crude Future is at $69.19/barrel and Evian (Mineral water from the Alps) is running for $1.69/pint. Simple conversion reveals Evian outdistances Oil at $743.60/barrel. Obviously I was wrong about the bacon, Global Warming has Chateâubriand wrapped around it. I'm surprised the Pentagon hasn't got F-35's backed up to the glaciers with their after-burners going 24/7/365. Oil-for-water! And a conversion rate that beats taking graft for a living. Next week, how Creation Science will have our cars running on water to wean us from terrorist oil. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229360 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 17:59:13 GMT Mike Coslo wrote: > May I assume that you believe that glacial cycles are the sole > source of global warming or cooling? Not the sole source - just the primary source. 120,000 years ago, temperatures peaked higher than they are presently. These cycles occur in 100k-120k year intervals. CO2 levels always zoom up and trail off gradually during the peak temperatures. There is some sort of feedback mechanism that takes the CO2 levels down. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229361 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 18:04:39 GMT John - KD5YI wrote: > Hey, Mike. The truth is inconvenient for Cecil. Here's the inconvenient truth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age The same thing has happened five times in the past 500,000 years including a few hundred thousand years before man ever walked the earth. Who caused the last four global warming cycles? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229362 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <13fhf2t04nugs89ba15l0u9a6bq9jip3du@4ax.com> <7M5Kg.20159$kO3.14739@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <814if2tgkdir20go2dhogfmd7la0ltftn0@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 18:08:52 GMT Richard Clark wrote: > My answer stands, contradicted but without ANY correction. I have corrected it in another posting. With a 50 ohm, 141.4V Thevenin source, the answer is 200 joules, not your 100 joules. It takes two seconds for a one second long lossless feedline to "fill up" with energy. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229363 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 11:11:46 -0700 Message-ID: References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 18:04:39 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: > Who caused the last four global warming cycles? Who is on first, What's on second, I Don't Know's on third. Article: 229364 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 18:20:11 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Here's the inconvenient truth: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age Here more from "21st Century Science and Technology" http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Articles%202004/Winter2003-4/global_warming.pdf -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229365 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 2 Sep 2006 11:22:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1157221351.168076.62110@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: rom: an old friend on Fri, Sep 1 2006 7:30 pm >Slow Code wrote: >> M...@kb9rqz.com wrote in news:inuef2lf28as7au0a7ithmdfgpbo56o24l@4ax.com: >> You might have gotten some priviledges, but that was only because ham >> radio has been dumbed down and you didn't have to make an effort to earn >> them. > >funy how for all you claim to be better than I and better than those >that agree with me on code tesing Our view is going to prevail > >trolling right along Mark, you have to give up on this anonymous "Slow Code." He is just another of the Bigot Morsemen. He cannot adjust to changing times, changing technology, or (perhaps) changing his underwear. The FCC establishes regulations for ALL United States civil radio. What the FCC says, goes. The ARRL doesn't rule, morsemen don't rule, and old, old traditions don't rule. The FCC has NEVER said anything about "earning" a license...a license applicant must take an FCC-approved test and score above an FCC-established minimum percentage correct answers. That's all there is. FCC regulations are LAW and that LAW can be changed by democratic principled means. That LAW is not established by some minority group who cannot advance beyond primitive on-off carrier keying. This "Slow Code" (like all bigoted morsemen) has taken up a role of "I-am-your-leader" gang-banger bullshit bragging and usual calling names of those licensees "below" him. Poor guy (or gal?). That's all this "Slow Code" has...SOME manual morse code skill. He might be right at home in an 1870s telegraph office but his attitude is neither for democratic principles, nor for good fellowship in a hobby, nor as a human being participating in a discussion forum. The FCC doesn't "rule" on any amateur radio "traditions." It simply regulates ALL US civil radio (amateur radio is a small part of that) and mitigates interference when it happens. The FCC follows the LAW in their charter, permitting an open forum for Comments on NPRMs, even R&Os, open for ALL citizens and even allowing Comments from non-citizens. Bigot morsemen do NOT allow any opinions opposing their own over-inflated self-defined opinions. They want to RULE all the Homies in da Ham Hood. They think they "own" ham radio when the only thing they've "earned" is a bad attitude against them. It's a wonder they haven't taken up Spark transmitters (even though damped-wave mode is forbidden by law). Spark and morsemanship went together in olden days, days well before the existance of any of the bigot morsemen in this forum. "Slow Code" needs a time machine to go back to that old era since he can't keep up with modern times nor the democratic principles of the representative republic of the United States of America. As a professional in radio communications, one who began in and on HF over a half century ago, I have contempt for the over-inflated egos of the bigot morsemen. None have made their case valid enough to warrant morse code testing for amateur radio licenses forever. But, the ARRL is toadying to them, vainly hoping to increase their minority membership by sticking to the amateur practice of a half century ago. ARRL membership hasn't increased beyond a quarter of all licensed radio amateurs in the United States, nor has the ARRL favored, ever, the VHF-and-up amateur radio licensees beyond the barest minimum of mentions. Sooner or later the FCC will yield to PUBLIC pressure to modernize US amateur radio beyond the old-fashioned limitations and favoritism towards morsemanship lobbied for by the ARRL. It may not come in "Slow Code's" lifetime since he is of the group where a morse key has to be pried from his cold, dead fingers. Poor "Slow Code," old before his time, unable to fit into this new millennium of radio technology. LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229366 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 11:31:49 -0700 Message-ID: References: <13fhf2t04nugs89ba15l0u9a6bq9jip3du@4ax.com> <7M5Kg.20159$kO3.14739@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <814if2tgkdir20go2dhogfmd7la0ltftn0@4ax.com> On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 18:08:52 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >I have corrected it in another posting... Blah, blah, blah, tailored of course to a different problem. SOS Hi All, I saw Albert Brooks movie "Looking for Comedy in the Muslim World" last night that had a routine by him that reminds me of this boot-shuffling, toe-scrubbing side-step: Brooks (to an audience of mixed Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs....): "We are going to investigate the humor of improvisation and I need you to give me a nationality" "German!" "OK, German. Now how about a occupation?" "Farmer!" "OK, a German Farmer. What does he raise?" "Turnips!" "Is he married?" "Yes, with 5 children!" "OK, is he rich or poor?" "POOR!" "OK, a poor German Farmer, married with 5 kids who raises Turnips. That's great, we are going to have a lot of fun with this. (starting to rummage up a routine, and then changing his mind) No, I don't like him being German. We are going to make him Chinese, but Chinese don't raise beets, they raise rice and they are doing pretty good, so he's not poor. "So, we have a middle class Chinese rice farmer with 5 kids - NO! I read somewhere they have a population limit, and I don't want him married. Let's make him divorced with 1 kid. "No - raising rice is such a stereotype, so let's make him a bus driver. "OK, a divorced middle class Chinese bus driver with - No, I hear Japan is really getting into this divorce thing. OK, a divorced middle class Japanese auto worker with no children! Imagine him asking for a raise: "I want more money! Chinese make more money raising rice than I do! Even Germans eating turnips do. Give me money!" Yeah - right..... Article: 229367 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mismatched Zo Connectors References: <13fhf2t04nugs89ba15l0u9a6bq9jip3du@4ax.com> <7M5Kg.20159$kO3.14739@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <814if2tgkdir20go2dhogfmd7la0ltftn0@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 19:19:48 GMT Richard Clark wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> I have corrected it in another posting... > > Blah, blah, blah, tailored of course to a different problem. SOS Yes, tailored to a configuration that is possible (Thevenin source) rather than the previous impossible one (100 watts into an infinite impedance). So far, Jim has refused to discuss all possible configurations and seems to prefer only the impossible ones. One wonders why. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229368 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Alinco EDX-2 Auto-tuner to IC706 Message-ID: References: <1157217920.482605.6330@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 20:30:39 GMT On 2 Sep 2006 10:25:20 -0700, "Don" wrote: >This is an old question, but I see no answers yet. > >Anyone figured out how to get an Icom 706 to work with an Alinco EDX-2 >tuner? > >I've made the corrections and the turner tunes but creates a 1:3 SWR >into the Icom and of corse the rig won't work like that. Did you initiate a tune? Unlike some other tuners, the EDX-2 will not initiate the tune automatically, you need to initiate it and presumably you have interfaced the EDX-2 to the Icom's tuner interface. If you have done all that, the relays rattled, and you have 3:1 VSWR, then it sounds like the EDX-2 is faulty. Owen > >I've also noticed that there is a "daughter board" inside the EDX-2 and >wonder if the manufacturer has another daughter board that will permit >(convert) the EDX-2 to an AH-3? I have not seen such a thing, I doubt it. > >I don't have an AH-3 to look at, but does it also have a daughter >board? Schematic?? > IIRC: I have used an EDX-2 on an IC706IIG. The protocol is very similar, the EDX-2 is the dumber device, so it ought be just a matter of pinout adjustment. The EDX-2 does not accept "abort" commands, and it doesn't send a "fail" response, so the integration is not quite 100%. But it will respond to the Icom's START signal, and assert the KEY line until it has tuned... which will work OK with the Icom. Beware that the different Icom models use this interface in different ways, and the IC7000 continues that tradition. It seems that it is very important that the connection to the tx KEY line is open collector, otherwise the tuner interferes with proper fan operation. Owen -- Article: 229369 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Penguin" Subject: Re: REG EDWARDS. CHEERS! Date: 2 Sep 2006 14:02:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1157230945.483750.263860@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> References: <1157040328.531086.156050@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> John - KD5YI wrote: > Penguin wrote: > > Many thanks for all the kind words about Reg. I'm new to newsgroups but > > have followed avidly dad's two favourite groups over the last 24 hours. > > (It somehow makes me feel closer to him). I'm especially pleased to > > read that you are trying to keep dad's website alive (cheers for that) > > and also the postings from those who say they are still learning from > > his programs. Dad was definitely all for education and it would have > > warmed the cockles of his heart to have read such postings. (Somehow, I > > think he is reading them and will be watching you from afar). My > > brother Pete is the one to do all the technical 'stuff' in preserving > > the website, My "technical"experience concerning antenna only extends > > to remembering to remove the aerial before entering the car wash! TTFN > > Jean Proctor.( Reg's proud daughter) > > > > > I was amazed at Reg's simple and pragmatic approach to very technical > problems. His clear and concise prose made the most complex of problems > understandable. > > When we meet again, I'll buy the next round. > > CHEERS, Reg! > > John > KD5YI You'll have to be quick to get to the bar before Dad! He always wanted to buy the first round and was never backward in coming forward with the refills. Article: 229370 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44F9F11D.6010106@fuse.net> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 17:01:17 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: You've Got Mail...But No Job! Fun at Radio Shack References: <44f6dae3$0$10210$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net> <20NJg.5739$rd7.3255@edtnps89> Cecil Moore wrote: > Dr.Ace wrote: > >> Just wondering , what's the opposite of a "Dog eat dog" world ? > > > Isn't god the opposite of dog? "Tea god tea"? Article: 229371 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred Hambrecht" References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 16:48:53 -0400 Message-ID: <51efb$44f9f218$471f5efd$31517@ALLTEL.NET> My son recently took a flight where he had to give up his toothpaste, it might have made sense except he and the entire passenger list were each carring M-16's with 3 clips of ammo as they returned from Iraq. "Richard Clark" wrote in message news:m2jhf2tbi70bn7380l94erko58a8d7s469@4ax.com... > On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:56:26 GMT, Owen Duffy wrote: > > That information has been considered a secret that is vital to the > interests of the United States of the Republican Party and is on the > list of items not allowed on board airplanes, nor to be transported by > skateboard across the border of any state contiguously bordering > Texas, except Venezuela. Those Data Sheets have been removed from the > public archive by the CIA so as to eliminate any possibility of this > newly classified material falling into the hands of terrorists. > > Don't ask us about toothpaste or the FBI's network monitoring will > kick into mauve alert level. > > 73's > Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229372 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred Hambrecht" References: <1156865444.617650.136140@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156893698.495263.100150@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <1156938506.811395.322980@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <24pJg.12229$Qf.6259@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1157164222.192542.259610@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 16:52:25 -0400 Message-ID: We are better than you! Was there ever any doubt? If you can't learn code you are not only stupid but lazy as well! You have a welfare license, shut up and enjoy what was given to your whining ass... "an old friend" wrote in message news:1157164222.192542.259610@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > Slow Code wrote: >> Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote in news:inuef2lf28as7au0a7ithmdfgpbo56o24l@4ax.com: >> > >> You might have gotten some priviledges, but that was only because ham >> radio has been dumbed down and you didn't have to make an effort to earn >> them. > > funy how for all you claim to be better than I and better than those > that agree with me on code tesing Our view is going to prevail > > trolling right along > Article: 229373 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: SM0YPT Subject: Re: Hy-gain ant query Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 19:57:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <422%c.26724$Z14.8702@news.indigo.ie> Denis O' Flynn Wrote: > > > I have the 3 part numbers of the coils - 10M (870138). 15M (870135) and > 20M > coil (870369). There is also a 40M coil on top of the flat washer with > no > part number on it. The flat washer has holes which appear to have been > a > groundplane or a cap. hat. > > Seems to be an HyGain 18AVT. The coil on top is the 80M resonator. The > flat washer is for the 4 top radials (11 1/4" long). > /Goran Wennersten SM0YPT -- SM0YPT Article: 229374 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Don" Subject: Re: Alinco EDX-2 Auto-tuner to IC706 Date: 2 Sep 2006 14:18:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1157231918.911807.47200@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <1157217920.482605.6330@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Thanks for the information! Yes, I have to push the Tune button on the 706 and the relays rattle and then the red LED light on the 706 lights up. The built in SWR meter shows a 3:1 SWR. I can change the frequency on the 706 and get a lower SWR. I have noticed that the tuner does not "Tune" for very long. No where as long as the DX70 took and it seems like maybe the "tune" process is being cut short. When I change bands, it takes just a half a second to tune which seems way too fast. Is this information give any more clues to what is going on? The EDX-2 works fine with the DX70. (I can change back & forth using adapter cables) Thanks, Don>>> Owen Duffy wrote: > On 2 Sep 2006 10:25:20 -0700, "Don" wrote: > > >This is an old question, but I see no answers yet. > > > >Anyone figured out how to get an Icom 706 to work with an Alinco EDX-2 > >tuner? > > > >I've made the corrections and the turner tunes but creates a 1:3 SWR > >into the Icom and of corse the rig won't work like that. > > Did you initiate a tune? Unlike some other tuners, the EDX-2 will not > initiate the tune automatically, you need to initiate it and > presumably you have interfaced the EDX-2 to the Icom's tuner > interface. > > If you have done all that, the relays rattled, and you have 3:1 VSWR, > then it sounds like the EDX-2 is faulty. > > Owen > > > > >I've also noticed that there is a "daughter board" inside the EDX-2 and > >wonder if the manufacturer has another daughter board that will permit > >(convert) the EDX-2 to an AH-3? > > I have not seen such a thing, I doubt it. > > > > >I don't have an AH-3 to look at, but does it also have a daughter > >board? Schematic?? > > > > IIRC: > > I have used an EDX-2 on an IC706IIG. > > The protocol is very similar, the EDX-2 is the dumber device, so it > ought be just a matter of pinout adjustment. > > The EDX-2 does not accept "abort" commands, and it doesn't send a > "fail" response, so the integration is not quite 100%. But it will > respond to the Icom's START signal, and assert the KEY line until it > has tuned... which will work OK with the Icom. > > Beware that the different Icom models use this interface in different > ways, and the IC7000 continues that tradition. It seems that it is > very important that the connection to the tx KEY line is open > collector, otherwise the tuner interferes with proper fan operation. > > Owen > -- Article: 229375 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <51efb$44f9f218$471f5efd$31517@ALLTEL.NET> Message-ID: <5gnKg.7691$q63.3876@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 22:06:57 GMT Fred Hambrecht wrote: > My son recently took a flight where he had to give up his toothpaste, it > might have made sense except he and the entire passenger list were each > carring M-16's with 3 clips of ammo as they returned from Iraq. A statement about the present insanity. They took away my fingernail clippers. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229376 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Alinco EDX-2 Auto-tuner to IC706 Message-ID: References: <1157217920.482605.6330@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1157231918.911807.47200@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 22:18:43 GMT On 2 Sep 2006 14:18:39 -0700, "Don" wrote: >Thanks for the information! > >Yes, I have to push the Tune button on the 706 and the relays rattle >and then the red LED light on the 706 lights up. The built in SWR >meter shows a 3:1 SWR. I can change the frequency on the 706 and get a >lower SWR. Ok, so when you change freq after completing a tune, how low does the VSWR go and how far away did you tune at what freq? You probably need an external meter to get better resolution in making this measurement? It may be that the two detectors in the EDX-2 are out of cal, and it is finding the wrong tune point. > >I have noticed that the tuner does not "Tune" for very long. No where >as long as the DX70 took and it seems like maybe the "tune" process is >being cut short. When I change bands, it takes just a half a second to >tune which seems way too fast. No, not necessarily a problem. The EDX-2 like many, store a cache of recent tune positions, and it measures f, searches the cache, tries the settings and uses them if ok, otherwise it retunes. > >Is this information give any more clues to what is going on? > >The EDX-2 works fine with the DX70. (I can change back & forth using >adapter cables) Do the same test on exactly the same frequencies as I suggested at the start of my reply. The results should be exactly the same. Owen -- Article: 229377 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 2 Sep 2006 15:43:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1157237002.633514.147580@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> References: Fred Hambrecht wrote: > We are better than you! Was there ever any doubt? If you can't learn code > you are not only stupid but lazy as well! You have a welfare license, shut > up and enjoy what was given to your whining ass... Mr Congenialty has spoken. Article: 229378 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 19:06:23 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Best, reasonably priced SWR meter?? References: <833if2pn84r5mfafgj8olqijc483iu9rrv@4ax.com> Message-ID: <9dCdnfGyktXwk2fZnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@comcast.com> One meter gives two possible answers: right or wrong Two meters gives four possible answers:; right/right, right/wrong, wrong/right, wrong/wrong. Three meters gives eight possible answers: .... etc. How much difference are you seeing? Are you sure you have no common mode rf on the coax? IS the IC736 putting out sufficient power to properly activate the internal meter? etc. chasm@texas.net wrote: > I am getting such wild differences between the meter on my IC736 and that on > the MFJ969, that I feel that I need a 3d meter to tell me which of the others > to believe. > > would appreciate suggestions on something for HF 100W and less than $100. > > thanks > chas > > > > ... Article: 229379 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 2 Sep 2006 16:39:51 -0700 Message-ID: <1157240391.318511.138610@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: From: Fred Hambrecht on Sat, Sep 2 2006 1:52 pm >We are better than you! Was there ever any doubt? If you can't learn code >you are not only stupid but lazy as well! You have a welfare license, shut >up and enjoy what was given to your whining ass... > >"an old friend" wrote in message > >> Slow Code wrote: >>> M...@kb9rqz.com wrote in news:inuef2lf28as7au0a7ithmdfgpbo56o24l@4ax.com: > >>> You might have gotten some priviledges, but that was only because ham >>> radio has been dumbed down and you didn't have to make an effort to earn >>> them. > >> funy how for all you claim to be better than I and better than those >> that agree with me on code tesing Our view is going to prevail > >> trolling right along Go for it, Congenial Fred, show 'em who's boss in da ham hood! :-) Ya know, US amateur radio is supposed to be about good fellowship and all that warm and fuzzy stuff. Poor Fred long since ran out of warmth and his mind is fuzzy...tsk. What are YOU "better at," Congenial Fred? Morse code? I'm sure you are a whiz at that. Anything else except getting a bad score on the range after shooting off your mouth? I'll bet not. Wow (yawn) 50 years a ham (and still not cured). I've been a professional in radio longer than that. Fascinating stuff that radio and electronics technology. Morse code isn't technology per se...it was being done over 40 years before the first radio-as-a-communications-medium was demonstrated in 1896. But you "are better" than non-morsemen because you passed a NON-TECHNICAL, NON-INTELLECTUAL manual morse code test...as an AMATEUR. [big Ben Stein "wowwww" here] "Welfare license?" Just because there's no manual morse code test for Technician class? Oh, my, but the FCC does NOT say anything about "welfare licenses." That's only your own BIGOTRY vomited up. Almost half of all US amateur radio licenses are now in the Technician Class. Are you deliberately trying to alienate half of all ham licensees? Well, Congenial Fred, you are doing real good on that alienation part. Have fun on "the bands," Fred, there's plenty of your kind there, the bigoted morsemen, the self-proclaimed gods of AMATEUR radio trying to be "leaders" in da ham 'hood. Fred, support stem cell research. You've lost too many neurons required for good fellowship...maybe some stem cells can help restore them. LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229380 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 2 Sep 2006 16:42:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1157240519.992211.150170@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Sat, Sep 2 2006 3:43 pm >Fred Hambrecht wrote: >> We are better than you! Was there ever any doubt? If you can't learn code >> you are not only stupid but lazy as well! You have a welfare license, shut >> up and enjoy what was given to your whining ass... > >Mr Congenialty has spoken. Brian, sudden realization! We may have found the illegitimate biological father of Stebie Robeson! Same ego, same "better than you" bad attitude, same lack of good fellowship, same 9-year-old's sass, same-o same-o! Incredible! Then again he may be a cousin to that anony-mousie "Slow Code." Lots of inbreeding going on in the morsemen ranks. I wonder where Jimmy Noserve is hiding? Fred said "shut up!" Jimmy would have a hissy fit if'n he saw that...:-) LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229381 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Miller Subject: Olbermann Speech Message-ID: Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 00:16:35 GMT Pretty damned good. http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/08/30/keith-olbermann-delivers-one-hell-of-a-commentary-on-rumsfeld/ bob k5qwg Article: 229382 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: John - KD5YI Subject: Re: REG EDWARDS. CHEERS! References: <1157040328.531086.156050@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <1157230945.483750.263860@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 00:17:34 GMT Penguin wrote: > John - KD5YI wrote: > >>Penguin wrote: >> >>>Many thanks for all the kind words about Reg. I'm new to newsgroups but >>>have followed avidly dad's two favourite groups over the last 24 hours. >>>(It somehow makes me feel closer to him). I'm especially pleased to >>>read that you are trying to keep dad's website alive (cheers for that) >>>and also the postings from those who say they are still learning from >>>his programs. Dad was definitely all for education and it would have >>>warmed the cockles of his heart to have read such postings. (Somehow, I >>>think he is reading them and will be watching you from afar). My >>>brother Pete is the one to do all the technical 'stuff' in preserving >>>the website, My "technical"experience concerning antenna only extends >>>to remembering to remove the aerial before entering the car wash! TTFN >>>Jean Proctor.( Reg's proud daughter) >>> >> >> >>I was amazed at Reg's simple and pragmatic approach to very technical >>problems. His clear and concise prose made the most complex of problems >>understandable. >> >>When we meet again, I'll buy the next round. >> >>CHEERS, Reg! >> >>John >>KD5YI > > You'll have to be quick to get to the bar before Dad! He always wanted > to buy the first round and was never backward in coming forward with > the refills. That's my kind of man! Let the race begin! John Article: 229383 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 2 Sep 2006 17:22:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1157242929.751563.162380@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: From: Slow Code on Fri, Sep 1 2006 5:36 pm >"LenAnder...@ieee.org" wrote in >> Rick Frazier wrote: >>> You've insisted on posting this crap so many times just about anyone >>> with more than two or three brain cells would be sick of it by now. >>> Why don't you just crawl back under the rock you crawled out from >>> under? > >>> At this point, even a relative moron should get the point that there >>> are a bunch of people that really don't give a damn about CW. That you >>> do is not the point, but your continual posts about it are the point. >>> Therefore, your continual posts lead me to believe you should be >>> seeking mental help. If you don't think you need therapy, how about >>> you get a life and if you are so Pro-CW, why aren't you on the bands >>> right now? Excellent question, "Slow." Why didn't you answer it? >>> Though I'm an Extra and passed the CW requirements shouldn't make a >>> difference if I choose to operate phone. If the requirements change >>> and new Hams aren't required to take the code test, am I going to be >>> pissed? >>> Hell no, because I took the tests when I did because I wanted to be a >>> productive part of this hobby, not wait for an easier ticket in. I >>> learned it, just as a huge number of others have, but none of us wish >>> to push it like you seem to want to. Even the most die-hard CW fanatic >>> is spending his time on the bands, not on the internet trolling for >>> arguments. Nobody responding to your CQs, "Slow?" Is that why you are so up-tight and angry in this forum? >>> Now, to provide a response to your query: It is extremely unlikely >>> that with all the means we have for contact in the case of an >>> emergency, that CW would be the only way to make contact, particularly >>> if you live in anything near an urban evironment in mainland US. >>> First and foremost, there has to be someone else that will respond to >>> you, and given the things going on with the hobby lately, I doubt that >>> CW will be the safety net you'd like to believe it is. > >>> For myself, I have HF and VHF in both the house and vehicle, and have >>> the VHF radios all programmed with all of the local police and fire >>> frequencies. In a true emergency, I wouldn't lose a moment's time >>> worrying about whether it was legal or not before I keyed up on a >>> public service/fire/police frequency if it meant saving somebody. >>> Would CW help? Not very damn likely, as first I'd have to key up the >>> HF rig, get to someone that could relay, pass a message, hope like hell >>> that they actually did call the proper authority, (and were believed), >>> and so on. >>> You can bet I'll get attention right away if I key up on any of the >>> public service frequencies, and they damn well will respond, if for no >>> other reason than to find me. If that's what it takes, so be it, they >>> can fight it out in court later, and I'd get so much media attention >>> they wouldn't dare push it very far. On the other hand, the likelihood >>> of actually being believed using standard, HF and CW procedures, or >>> getting help in a timely manner to actually save a life is an extremely >>> remote chance... You haven't answered that from a licensed amateur Extra, "Slow." Why haven't you? Is it possible you don't know of anything in radio except what the ARRL has spoon-fed you? >>> I rarely filter anyone, but you've definitely earned the "plonk" of >>> being filtered. Say Bye-Bye ! ! ! "Slow," you've earned that "plonk" many times over. >>> --Rick AH7H > >> Thank you, Rick! You spoke volumes of reality in this new >> millennium. > >And you're still just as stupid as you were before you read it. Now, now, "Slow," you are starting to sound like one of those inbred bigoted morsemen in here. You can't discuss anything reasonable-like, only cuss at those who disagree with you. :-) >Now go bullshit with Dr Death on 11 meters, and don't come back until you >pull your head out of your ass. I don't know any "Dr Death," "Slow," nor do I operate on "11 meters." Further, you are ten kinds of short on ability to threaten. Your threats and "orders" become recycled electrons doing nothing but dissipating a tiny bit of heat. Take YOUR beloved morse code test and shove it up YOUR ass. Push real hard...there seems to be an obstruction there. Must be your own four neurons in the way. Beep, beep LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229384 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 21:12:42 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > John - KD5YI wrote: > >> Hey, Mike. The truth is inconvenient for Cecil. > > > Here's the inconvenient truth: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age > > The same thing has happened five times in the past > 500,000 years including a few hundred thousand years > before man ever walked the earth. Who caused the > last four global warming cycles? What are you talking about Cecil? You are presupposing that the "other" side is saying that all global warming is due to Human activity. It isn't. Volcanoes can belch out a lot of the stuff. There is a good chance that methane ice at the bottom of some parts of the ocean can "let loose" a lot of global warming material. Of course the obvious answer to your question is "not humans". And equally of course, the question is not relevant. There are many answers to your question. No doubt that precession has a lot to do with it. The Sun itself can vary. I can't imagine that the Deccan Trap episode of volcanism didn't warm things up after the initial cooling effect it must have had. Didn't have a thing to do with human beings. But your argument has a fatal flaw. That not all causes of global warming are caused by humans does not mean that none are. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229385 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jerry" References: <1156838393.328804.90100@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156992037.683476.126010@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <-dqdnY6coY553GrZnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@comcast.com> Subject: Re: NEED TO KNOW BEST ANTENNA Message-ID: Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 21:17:55 -0400 "Dave" wrote in message news:NqydnZkD67u6z2rZnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@comcast.com... > Cecil Moore wrote: > >> Dave wrote: >> >>> If the propagation is open, 15 watts will work the world. >> >> >> Although short wave skip is illegal for CBers. > > You are CORRECT!! > > But, Mr. Hollingsworth ignores that too. Along with everything else on 11 > meters. Not quite. Haven't you seen the warnings to both CBers AND hams about "freebanding". And what CBers do are not Riley's purvey outSIDE the ham bands. That comes from the Dallas Field Engineering Office and is headed up by Mr Brock. And in RH's defense, if you want to do something positive, the next time you are out cruising in your HF mobile, dial up 28.085 AM and just listen along the interstate. When you hear a trucker yapping on his "export reddio thar, drivah", just copy down his company name on the door, DOT number (to verify the company), tractor number (usually on the door or side of the hood), date/time and frequency and location and send it to rholling@fcc.gov. He will then issue a warning letter requesting the company to contact him to "discuss' the matter! The companies don't like to get letters like this, and will act to stop their drivers' illegal radio activity. It *was* quiet along Interstate 85 for a short while, but now the drivers are back yapping as usual. They are all over the country doing this and it is up to licensed hams to do, at least, SOMETHING to stop it! So how do you observe them doing this? One way is that they see hams' screwdriver antennas or multiple antennas and they remark on "their secret, spay-shul truckers' channel (thar)" like......"He shore has a lot of 'antanners on that car", or "Git a load of that big 'antanner'; betcha he kin tawk to China". (Little does he know it CAN!). A small tape recorder works well! ;) It looks like a mike, so the trucker likely won't even know what you are doing! So let's get out there and record these stupes and get them lettered! It *may* not stop it all, but anything is better than nothing at all (like whining and complaining about what someone ELSE isn't doing :) )! And, yes, I am told that there SEVERAL companies we *should* be hearing about soon! At least I HOPE so! If it is allowed to continue, can we expect to find them on 15 Meters with Super-Duper Cobra "ham" reddios wid 2,000 "channels" (thar?) 73 J > Article: 229386 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred Hambrecht" References: <1156865444.617650.136140@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156893698.495263.100150@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <1156938506.811395.322980@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <24pJg.12229$Qf.6259@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1157164222.192542.259610@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1157240391.318511.138610@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 21:02:58 -0400 Message-ID: <84737$44fa2fbd$471d2636$25732@ALLTEL.NET> I extend fellowship to REAL hams, you no code idiots are not hams, simply CBers that have the ability to read at a third grade level. Everyone serves a purpose, even if only as a bad example... No code, non showering, non intellectial, whiners holding welfare licenses meet that criteria to a "T". Now that you have been responded to in the manner you accuse all code able hams of, you may cease your trolling... I don't really give a flip one way or another if you ever know code, I just wish the bunch of you would stop playing "pity me" and lamenting the fact you do not have a no code Jesse Jackson type to take up your cause. You have a license, enjoy it and if you don't care to learn the code, someday you won't have to. In the mean time shut up with the whining and get on with life. The license is only worth the investment you have in it, no effort - no value! If you spent half the time learning as you do bitching you would be at 40 WPM. wrote in message news:1157240391.318511.138610@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > From: Fred Hambrecht on Sat, Sep 2 2006 1:52 pm > >>We are better than you! Was there ever any doubt? If you can't learn code >>you are not only stupid but lazy as well! You have a welfare license, shut >>up and enjoy what was given to your whining ass... >> >>"an old friend" wrote in message > Go for it, Congenial Fred, show 'em who's boss in da ham hood! > :-) > > Ya know, US amateur radio is supposed to be about good > fellowship and all that warm and fuzzy stuff. Poor Fred > long since ran out of warmth and his mind is fuzzy...tsk. > > What are YOU "better at," Congenial Fred? Morse code? I'm > sure you are a whiz at that. Anything else except getting a > bad score on the range after shooting off your mouth? I'll > bet not. > > Wow (yawn) 50 years a ham (and still not cured). I've been > a professional in radio longer than that. Fascinating stuff > that radio and electronics technology. Morse code isn't > technology per se...it was being done over 40 years before > the first radio-as-a-communications-medium was demonstrated > in 1896. But you "are better" than non-morsemen because you > passed a NON-TECHNICAL, NON-INTELLECTUAL manual morse code > test...as an AMATEUR. [big Ben Stein "wowwww" here] > > "Welfare license?" Just because there's no manual morse > code test for Technician class? Oh, my, but the FCC does > NOT say anything about "welfare licenses." That's only your > own BIGOTRY vomited up. Almost half of all US amateur radio > licenses are now in the Technician Class. Are you > deliberately trying to alienate half of all ham licensees? > Well, Congenial Fred, you are doing real good on that > alienation part. > > Have fun on "the bands," Fred, there's plenty of your kind > there, the bigoted morsemen, the self-proclaimed gods of > AMATEUR radio trying to be "leaders" in da ham 'hood. > > Fred, support stem cell research. You've lost too many > neurons required for good fellowship...maybe some stem > cells can help restore them. > > LenAnderson@ieee.org > Article: 229387 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 21:59:35 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: > >> Here's the inconvenient truth: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age > > > Here more from "21st Century Science and Technology" > > http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Articles%202004/Winter2003-4/global_warming.pdf > Some thoughts upon reading the article... I wonder which "arm of the Milky Way" we "passed through", and what area of "intensive star creation" we passed through. Celestial mechanics and time-scales being what they are, the answer would (should) be obvious. BTW, we are IN an arm of the Milky way, there are no other nearby galaxies, save Andromeda, which although rushing toward us, is still comfortably far away. Perhaps the Magellanic clouds? I notice on page 56 of the article - page 6 of the he pulls out the political trump card. Quote from article: "The Mann et al. papers had a political edge: They served as a counterweight against President George W. Bush’s negative stand toward the Kyoto Protocol as “fatally flawed,” and his attempt to lessen the economic global catastrophe that Kyoto would induce". WELL! At least this fine fellow wasn't being political!!! Sorry Cecil, as a political piece, this has some merit. As science, it treads dangerously close to creationism. And in the end, it fails to explain what I want all along. That is: The effect of Differing amounts of CO2 on atmospheric thermal retention has been a well documented fact since the 1840's. Assuming that there is no effect on the global temperatures from combustion that releases more CO2 into the atmosphere than would normally happen, what is the mechanism that compensates for this release? I've heard a few things, such as increased planktonic or increased vegetation sequestering, but shouldn't that keep a pretty tight, ie close control over the situation? - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229388 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 22:08:58 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> Message-ID: Richard Clark wrote: > On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 17:15:53 GMT, John - KD5YI > wrote: > > >>Mike Coslo wrote: >> >>>Cecil Moore wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Mike Coslo wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>I won't say that global warming is happening or not. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Of course, global warming is happening. It has been >>>>going on for tens of thousands of years and happens >>>>every time the earth cyclically emerges from an ice >>>>age as it is doing now. >>> >>> >>> >>> I'm speaking of CO2 based global warming, whether as the results of >>>say volcanic activity, or as a result of the amount of CO2 added to the >>>atmosphere as a result of combustion release. >>> >>> >>> May I assume that you believe that glacial cycles are the sole >>>source of global warming or cooling? >>> >>> - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - >> >> >> >>Hey, Mike. The truth is inconvenient for Cecil. > > > Hi John, > > Cecil's answer, like those of so many politicians, embraces a faulty > premise to dismiss discussion. Imagine those same administration > savants on the upcoming 5th anniversary asking for yet another board > of enquiry for a study into the possibility of WMD in Iraq. That > didn't happen, and yet we get this interminable "Global Warming isn't > so, and it isn't from ____" (fill in the blank with any of a number of > their favorite red herrings). And when it is finally incontrovertible, we'll have moans of "we just didn't know at the time!" I only hope I live long enough to see how they figure out a way to blame it on the leeburulls! > Next week, how Creation Science will have our cars running on water to > wean us from terrorist oil. If you have enough faith, manna, oops.. I mean fuel, will appear each morning in your Escalade... ;^) - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229389 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 22:31:27 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> Cecil Moore wrote: > Mike Coslo wrote: > >> But your argument has a fatal flaw. That not all causes of global >> warming are caused by humans does not mean that none are. > > > Please stop confusing inclusive assertions with exclusive > assertions. > > That is NOT my argument. My argument is that it has not > been proved beyond a reasonable doubt that man has any > primary effect on global warming. Please stop changing the argument to serve your own purposes, Cecil! > "Man-causing-global- > warming" is a religion, based on faith, IMHO. Right. In your opinion. > In fact, > it seems more likely that man's CO2 contribution to the > atmosphere will do nothing more than hasten the next > ice age. Yeah, Cecil. I read the political-crypto-scientific article in your link. It wasn't science. It had a political premise, then tried to build a scientific story around it. Seriously, if the solar system passed through an arm of the Milky way with extensive star formation, which one was it? Did an arm of the Milky way come unattached and attack our particular arm? Celestial mechanics isn't easy to open to political attack, at least since the Pope pardoned Galileo. What I am trying to say is "where's the beef?" > > Take a look at the slope of the C02 buildup of 120k > years ago just before the last ice age. It is very close > to the slope of the C02 buildup of today. There is evidence > that ~280 ppmv levels of C02 triggered ice ages 120k, 240k, > 340k, and 440k years ago. That's about the level of CO2 > today. There is reason to believe that another ice age > is poised to happen and the Man-causing-global-warming > religion will no doubt blame man for it. Sigh... Why do I get the feeling that you are giving me some ready made arguments for someone else's questions? I'm not arguing whether or not man is causing global warming, or even if there is such a thing. I want to know why an increased amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is not warming the earth, when it should be (experimentally speaking) No Republican, Democrat, or religion answers accepted. Just science. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229390 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 2 Sep 2006 19:32:40 -0700 Message-ID: <1157250759.979459.43990@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: Fred Hambrecht wrote: > I extend fellowship to REAL hams, you no code idiots are not hams, bullshit Article: 229391 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 2 Sep 2006 19:32:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1157250759.722037.248970@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: Fred Hambrecht wrote: > I extend fellowship to REAL hams, you no code idiots are not hams, bullshit Article: 229392 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred Hambrecht" References: <1156865444.617650.136140@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156893698.495263.100150@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <1156938506.811395.322980@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <24pJg.12229$Qf.6259@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1157164222.192542.259610@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1157240391.318511.138610@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <84737$44fa2fbd$471d2636$25732@ALLTEL.NET> <1157250759.979459.43990@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 22:52:16 -0400 Message-ID: <73156$44fa43a3$471d2636$20198@ALLTEL.NET> If you read beyond that line, you would have seen I was fulfilling the expectations of the no code troll... "an old friend" wrote in message news:1157250759.979459.43990@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com... > > Fred Hambrecht wrote: >> I extend fellowship to REAL hams, you no code idiots are not hams, > bullshit > Article: 229393 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 2 Sep 2006 19:55:29 -0700 Message-ID: <1157252129.662561.277400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Fred Hambrecht wrote: > If you read beyond that line, you would have seen I was fulfilling the > expectations of the no code troll... you were the stand procode jerk you mean Article: 229394 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> Message-ID: <%vrKg.14528$%j7.13002@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 02:56:59 GMT Mike Coslo wrote: > The effect of Differing amounts of CO2 on atmospheric thermal > retention has been a well documented fact since the 1840's. Yes, and the 11 year sunspot cycle has been a well documented fact for thousands of years. Does puny man have any more control over the 100K year CO2 cycle than he does over the 11 year sunspot cycle. Methinks you (and others) suffer >from delusions of grandeur. Why do you think the CO2 levels *ALWAYS* drop after they reach ~280 ppmv? Do you think man can do anything to block that ~100k year drop in CO2 levels? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229395 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 03:12:31 GMT Mike Coslo wrote: > I > want to know why an increased amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is not > warming the earth, when it should be (experimentally speaking) Something causes an ice age every time the CO2 level gets up to a threshold of ~280 PPMV, approximately what it is today. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229396 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 23:15:40 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <%vrKg.14528$%j7.13002@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > Mike Coslo wrote: > >> The effect of Differing amounts of CO2 on atmospheric thermal >> retention has been a well documented fact since the 1840's. > > > Yes, and the 11 year sunspot cycle has been a well documented > fact for thousands of years. Does puny man have any more > control over the 100K year CO2 cycle than he does over the > 11 year sunspot cycle. You have time scales a tad messed up. WE don't have any control over the log period cycles. Methinks you (and others) suffer > from delusions of grandeur. Why do you think the CO2 levels > *ALWAYS* drop after they reach ~280 ppmv? Do you think man > can do anything to block that ~100k year drop in CO2 levels? Cecil, you are making arguments as if I am some kind of dyed in the wool tree huggin hippie back to the cave days left wingin' democratic commie leebural. And yet you haven't provided one single non-political (and not scientifically flawed) oriented debunking of the CO2 effect upon the atmosphere. No delusions Cecil. I await enlightenment. You argue in the same vein as creationists. If you wanna have an intelligent argument, fine. If not, fine. Tell me why the CO2 levels *ALWAYS* drop after reaching 280 ppmv. I await. Otherwise, I'll allow you to have the last word, and continue on your way. Science isn't a debate, despite what creationists, Anne Coulter, and creationists think. It is how things are. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229397 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Best, reasonably priced SWR meter?? Message-ID: <3pgkf2h4gvu38hg5sto2gbkqlivfs1dll6@4ax.com> References: <833if2pn84r5mfafgj8olqijc483iu9rrv@4ax.com> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 03:25:08 GMT On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:47:44 -0500, wrote: >I am getting such wild differences between the meter on my IC736 and that on >the MFJ969, that I feel that I need a 3d meter to tell me which of the others >to believe. > >would appreciate suggestions on something for HF 100W and less than $100. > chasm, There is a fundamental flaw in your approach. You cannot have confidence that the meter you buy for $100 is significantly better than the two you already have, and so, it doesn't add useful information in solving the problem reliably, it just adds complexity and noise. Some key tests that you can perform on the MFJ969 are: - does it indicate 1:1 on a good 50 ohm dummy load (and that the internal load doesn't qualify as a good 50 ohm dummy load)? (Goodness is 1:1); - terminate the MFJ with a S/C and measure the forward and reflected power, are they exactly the same at any power level(reduce your transmitter power output to do this test)? (Goodness is that they match exactly at all power levels); - terminate the MFJ with an O/C and measure the forward and reflected power, are they exactly the same at any power level(reduce your transmitter power output to do this test)? (Goodness is that they match exactly at all power levels); If it passes all those tests, it may be ok. We have not validated the scale shape, nor the absolute power calibration (which is not needed for VSWR measurement). You cannot do either of these easily without a reliable means of measuring RF power, voltage or current. What's that, you don't have a dummy load! Oh well, go ahead and use the internal load... but remember it is not as accurate as you would want, and so contributes to error. (I shouldn't be surprised however if the MFJ969 meter is calibrated (ie nulled) on the internal load so that customers think that since they agree, they must be correct... remember what MFJ stands for! Seriously though, if you tightened all the loose screws, shook out the loose solder bits, clipped ends of wire, extra nuts etc, the sampler and meter in the MFJ969 are good enough for the purpose at hand.) Indicative readings from my MFJ949 (which uses the same sampler / metering), on the internal load with 100W fwd, reflected is ~0.5W (very hard to read, using the low power scale, non linear) which is a VSWR of 1.15. On an external Bird load I cannot see meter deflection (this might not be the factory cal, I may have cal'd it along with other repairs.) Owen -- Article: 229398 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <%vrKg.14528$%j7.13002@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 03:35:17 GMT Mike Coslo wrote: > Tell me why the CO2 levels *ALWAYS* drop after reaching 280 ppmv. I'm content to observe the geological record and see that the CO2 levels have always dropped from that value for millions of years. I also don't know why the nucleus of an atom contains quarks. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229399 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 20:42:23 -0700 Message-ID: References: <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 22:08:58 -0400, Mike Coslo wrote: > I only hope I live long enough to see how they figure out a way to >blame it on the leeburulls! Hi Mike, You only have to wait a couple of years for the Republicans to blame Clinton (her or him, take your pick) for W. It'll take them a lot longer to come to terms that the Neocon agenda was an eagerly embraced legacy of Trotskyite commies from New York. If Republicans can't understand politics, they certainly can't be expect to understand science. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229400 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 2 Sep 2006 20:44:48 -0700 Message-ID: <1157255088.467885.265190@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: Fred HaFrom: Fred Hambrecht on Sat, Sep 2 2006 6:02 pm >I extend fellowship to REAL hams, you no code idiots are not hams, simply >CBers that have the ability to read at a third grade level. Tsk, tsk, Fred. Had you been able to read RRAP before, you'd know I have no amateur license, only a commercial one. :-) So, you think that US amateur radio is defined ONLY by morsemanship? Of course you do. You are unable to cope with any other definition. The FCC doesn't think so, Congenial Fred. Only you and the rabid olde-tyme morsemen think so. >Everyone serves a purpose, even if only as a bad example... You fill that bill to a "T" Congenial Fred. :-) >No code, non >showering, non intellectial, whiners holding welfare licenses meet that >criteria to a "T". "Non showering?" :-) Shirley, you can think of some metaphor better than that! :-) "Non intellectial?" Oh, you mean 'non intellectual." Tsk, tsk, Congenial Fred, if you wish to appear 'intellectual' you really ought to learn to spell correctly... :-) "Whiners?" Poor congenial Fred, can't understand that there are several valid reasons being held by the majority AGAINST morse code testing. You want to impose YOUR imperial will on the majority... Tsk, tsk, not a nice democratic principle idea. "Welfare licenses?" I got my First 'Phone in 1956, one test session at the Chicago Field Office of the FCC. Had to pay my own way in on the train. No snow, ground was level, and I kept my shoes on the whole time. Guess that isn't near as good as all them olde-tymers in the ham boonies, huh? :-) >Now that you have been responded to in the manner you accuse all code able >hams of, you may cease your trolling... Fred, you've shown yourself to be a first class morse BIGOT, one with a totally closed mind who lives in the past. But, that's not unusual among some of you kids (your birth year is 1939 but mine is earlier). After you hit the magic 65-year mark you go all shirty and start whining yourself about how "tough" YOU had it and how "loyal and principled" you are and how the "younger generation is no damn good" because they don't like YOUR ideals of a long-ago youth. I know, I've seen it hundreds of times...and am damn glad I never succumbed to such mental sickness. :-) Oh, and I do NOT "accuse all code able hams" of anything, only YOU, Fred Hambrecht, and all the other morsemen bigots who trash-mouth everyone who doesn't care for morsemanship. I don't "troll," congenial Fred, I CATCH. I've presented my views before the FCC clearly, logically, with facts researched and noted. Many times. I don't sing praises about morse code or testing for the simple reason that there's no praise for either. >I don't really give a flip one way or another if you ever know code, I just >wish the bunch of you would stop playing "pity me" and lamenting the fact >you do not have a no code Jesse Jackson type to take up your cause. Tsk, are you a racial bigot ALSO? I'm not black, congenial Fred, don't fake any religious titles nor academic titles nor the usual bragging bullshit common to so many amateurs. I've been on this planet longer than you have and made my own way without asking for welfare. Up yours and enjoy your food stamps. Well, maybe no "Jesse Jackson" but you pro-code-test mavens DO have the Church of St. Hiram on your side plus all the Brother Believers in Newington alla time singing the praises of "cee-double-yew" that all good maxim-fearers must follow. To the letter. To a "T." >You have >a license, enjoy it and if you don't care to learn the code, someday you >won't have to. I have a license, Freddie baby, but it NEVER had any requirement to learn morsemanship skills. I've had other FCC licenses, Freddie, and those didn't have any need to learn code. Of course those were all commercial-professional, not the mighty amateur kind (which you no doubt consider much, much more valuable). Freddie booby, 53 1/2 years ago the US Army had me and several others starting to operate HF transmitters of higher output power than was ever allowed to amateurs. NO license test needed. NO morsemanship skills needed...NO morse code modes were used to keep dozens of circuits open 24/7. I didn't have to know or learn morsemanship over a half century ago and haven't needed it in all the time up to now. You come along like some adolescent male and talk trash to me and other no-code-test advocates and say I "must?" Oh, my, you must think your morsemanship skills are super-macho with superpowers! >In the mean time shut up with the whining and get on with >life. Shut your own, bigot Freddie. You get NO breaks acting like a morseman bigot. Bigots don't deserve any civility. "My life" is going on just dandy without you, Freddie. Try to stay out of it. Intrude on it and you get stepped on. >The license is only worth the investment you have in it, no effort - no >value! Oh, wow, trotting out the "moral paragon" ploy are you? :-) Sounds like you are getting ready to enter the seminary at the blessed Church of St. Hiram! >If you spent half the time learning as you do bitching you would be >at 40 WPM. One "learns" a psycho-motor skill? :-) It is DEVELOPED, Freddie boy, isn't one damn thing "intellectual" about it. Pressing the government for a change in certain laws, such as the regulations concerning amateur radio licensing, isn't "bitching," colonial Fred. It is simply a democratic process to change archaic laws and regulations that have no use today. But, you fear change. Such might detract from your mighty self-image of an amateur morseman, god of radio, and ruler of the ham-ways. :-) Or is it that you want to CONTROL others, have them do as YOU command and to hell with democratic principles of law? Clarify that for us, Freddie, you seem to be swinging both ways. Freddie, there is zero-point-zero interest in "learning" any psycho's motor skill in this new millennium. It isn't used for communications in any other radio service under USA regulations and won't be...except in the time-retarded imaginations of some US radio amateurs who dream of ever- lasting glory of the beeperman. There is one helluvalot MORE INTERESTING, INTELLECTUAL things to do in learning the theory behind the front panel. Don't speak blithering drivel about "beauty and majesty" of monotonic on-off tones while caressing your vibroplex...the only "theory" there is turning something on and turning something off. You can do that with a buzzer if it turns you on so strong. You want to do 40 words per minute using morse? Fine. Go for it. I've been doing ONE HUNDRED TIMES that with data and that's at a slow speed. The world's comms aren't about manual telegraphy, Freddie, that's a long-past time that began before you and I were born. It is OLD stuff. Now you go right ahead and enjoy your "ARS" (Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society). I'm sure you feel all authoritative with your federal AMATEUR license and all. Tell everyone you are "federally authorized." Invite your friend and neighbors in to view your mighty license certificates (suitable for framing). Feel proud for you are a MORSEMAN! [god of radio, ruler of the ham-ways, etc., etc., etc.] Beep, beep LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229401 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: mcalhoun@ksu.edu Subject: Re: Ethical question Date: 2 Sep 2006 23:20:19 -0500 Message-ID: References: >> If you were in a crowded radio store and had to fart. Would you endure the >> pain and hold it in until you were alone, or would you silently let it out >> and hope someone else gets blamed for it? >The best course is to go stand next to an old lady, >preferably one who looks wealthy. Let fly with your >pressure-release, then turn to the old lady and whisper >loudly, "Look innocent, lady, and everybody will think >that *I* did it!" :-) Which reminds me of an old limerick: I sat next to the Duchess at tea, Which was simply the wrong place to be. Her rumblings abdominal Were simply phenomenal, And everyone thought it was me! -- --Myron A. Calhoun, W0PBV. Five boxes preserve our freedoms: soap, ballot, witness, jury, and cartridge NRA Life Member and Rifle, Pistol, & Home Firearm Safety Certified Instructor Certified Instructor for the Kansas Concealed-Carry Handgun license Article: 229402 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Kaz Subject: Convert DISH TV antenna for WIFI use. USB or RF FEED? Message-ID: Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 05:26:41 GMT I am looking for an easy way to convert a standard DISH TV offset feed dish for WIFI use. I desire to mount this thing on the rooftop for a long distance rural link. I need to understand if it would be easier to go the USB device route or what the ramifications are to going the traditional rf and coax route? I think my install will require around 60 to 75 ft of feed line. Could I use a wifi "extender" amplifier at midpoint to get past feedline losses? If I go the coax route, what would be an easy way to feed the dish? Could I use a tiny off-the-shelf external wifi antenna inside of a can or do I need to homebrew something more extravagant? If I go the usb device route to feed the dish, how can I extend that far? I do need to connect this to a pc as a NIC or client, therefore remote mounting a router wont do the job for me. --- NOTE ON REPLY: YANK THE DOT UCE TO GET ME BACK PRIVATELY Article: 229403 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gsm@mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) Subject: Re: Convert DISH TV antenna for WIFI use. USB or RF FEED? Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 06:31:03 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: Kaz wrote: > I am looking for an easy way to convert a standard DISH TV offset feed > dish for WIFI use. I desire to mount this thing on the rooftop for a > long distance rural link. You need to check the regulations for an unlicensed device in the U.S. There are EIRP (radiated power) restrictions and using a dish antenna may exceed them. Since this is a ham radio group, I assume you have a ham license. This may complicate things, because WiFi is not legal for ham useage. WiFi is very specific in what is legal or not, so are hams, but they are different. For example, the modulation method may not be allowed, encryption is not allowed, commercial useage etc. > I do need to connect this to a pc as a NIC or client, therefore remote > mounting a router wont do the job for me. Without some sort of device to manage the protocol, WiFi is pretty usesless. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/ Article: 229404 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: solidgoldZZZ@optonline.net (Ron Goldstein--KA2IIA) Subject: VERTICAL GROUND RADIAL QUESTION Message-ID: <44fab415.1446061@news.optonline.net> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 10:53:11 GMT I am about to install a ground radial setup for my Butternut HF9V. Does it matter if the wire is #14, #16, or #18, bare or insulated--buried or on the surface with radial staples ??? RON....KA2IIA ======================================================== Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail. Article: 229405 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Danny Richardson Subject: Re: VERTICAL GROUND RADIAL QUESTION Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 05:39:12 -0700 Message-ID: <2oilf2lfh49v6sc02ubr0qjqbc8tu1q941@4ax.com> References: <44fab415.1446061@news.optonline.net> On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 10:53:11 GMT, solidgoldZZZ@optonline.net (Ron Goldstein--KA2IIA) wrote: >I am about to install a ground radial setup for my Butternut HF9V. Does it >matter if the wire is #14, #16, or #18, bare or insulated--buried or on the >surface with radial staples ??? > > > RON....KA2IIA Not really. The differences would be so small a receiving station wouldn't note any difference. The exception being if the radials are buried deeply (more than 3-4 inches). What is important is the number and length of the radials. For more information check out http://k6mhe.com/BLE.html 73, Danny, K6MHE Article: 229406 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 3 Sep 2006 06:17:16 -0700 Message-ID: <1157289436.536931.167820@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Sat, Sep 2 2006 3:43 pm > > > >Fred Hambrecht wrote: > >> We are better than you! Was there ever any doubt? If you can't learn code > >> you are not only stupid but lazy as well! You have a welfare license, shut > >> up and enjoy what was given to your whining ass... > > > >Mr Congenialty has spoken. > > Brian, sudden realization! We may have found the illegitimate > biological father of Stebie Robeson! > > Same ego, same "better than you" bad attitude, same lack of good > fellowship, same 9-year-old's sass, same-o same-o! Incredible! > > Then again he may be a cousin to that anony-mousie "Slow Code." > Lots of inbreeding going on in the morsemen ranks. The family tree has few branches. > I wonder where Jimmy Noserve is hiding? Fred said "shut up!" > Jimmy would have a hissy fit if'n he saw that...:-) I wonder where robesin is hiding? Fred said "ass..." > LenAnderson@ieee.org Welp, if Fred had a tour in Ohio as an Army recruiter back in the 70s... Article: 229407 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "K4YZ" Subject: Brian P Burke, N0IMD, Perpetuating In The Very Thing He Says He Doesn't Do Date: 3 Sep 2006 06:35:18 -0700 Message-ID: <1157290517.970119.327030@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > Fred Hambrecht wrote: > > We are better than you! Was there ever any doubt? If you can't learn code > > you are not only stupid but lazy as well! You have a welfare license, shut > > up and enjoy what was given to your whining ass... > > Mr Congenialty has spoken. (snare-drum rim shot....) N0IMD has spoken. Steve, K4YZ Article: 229408 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 3 Sep 2006 06:39:29 -0700 Message-ID: <1157290769.287602.294910@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> References: Fred Hambrecht wrote: > If you read beyond that line, you would have seen I was fulfilling the > expectations of the no code troll... Mr Benevolent Congeniality, while it may be your desire to fulfill the wishes ot the no-code troll, there are just too many trolls on RRAP. I you go around and start fufilling the expectations of all trolls, this newsgroup will end up being trashed and unreadable. Do you want that on your conscience? Article: 229409 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: trolling right along Date: 3 Sep 2006 06:43:19 -0700 Message-ID: <1157290999.451023.43370@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: K4YZ wrote: > hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > > Fred Hambrecht wrote: > > > We are better than you! Was there ever any doubt? If you can't learn code > > > you are not only stupid but lazy as well! You have a welfare license, shut > > > up and enjoy what was given to your whining ass... > > > > Mr Congenialty has spoken. > > (snare-drum rim shot....) > > N0IMD has spoken. > > Steve, K4YZ ("in the navy" playing) The War Hero has spoken/ Article: 229410 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Bob Subject: Re: Convert DISH TV antenna for WIFI use. USB or RF FEED? References: Message-ID: <8j3rs3-vj.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 08:57:28 -0500 Hi Kaz My first thought is to go the USB route, 60-70 ft of coax on any WiFi band is a substantial loss that has to be (RF path) budgeted for. If you are trying to save $ by using the "ex" dish, the coax and connector costs can really blow the savings. Have you actually modelled the link you are wanting to setup? There are a number of GPL s/w packages that will help you out here. You'll then know what your margins are in determining what mode to use. Note that I dont know how effective the extender amplifiers are. Have a look at their specs and incorporate them into the model too. I dont know the max distance for USB but I guess an extender cable would do it. I asume that is also a freq/distance/loss thing like the old RS232 standard was. The simple answer is to lower the cable data rate till it works. I am sure you can also get WiFi repeaters if that is an option. I know Cisco WAPs have that option as well. Sorry, my knowledge isnt so complete on this subject. Cheers Bob VK2YQA Kaz wrote: > > > I am looking for an easy way to convert a standard DISH TV offset feed > dish for WIFI use. I desire to mount this thing on the rooftop for a > long distance rural link. I need to understand if it would be easier to > go the USB device route or what the ramifications are to going the > traditional rf and coax route? I think my install will require around > 60 to 75 ft of feed line. Could I use a wifi "extender" amplifier at > midpoint to get past feedline losses? If I go the coax route, what > would be an easy way to feed the dish? Could I use a tiny off-the-shelf > external wifi antenna inside of a can or do I need to homebrew something > more extravagant? > > If I go the usb device route to feed the dish, how can I extend that far? > > I do need to connect this to a pc as a NIC or client, therefore remote > mounting a router wont do the job for me. > > > --- NOTE ON REPLY: YANK THE DOT UCE TO GET ME BACK PRIVATELY > Article: 229411 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44FAE5B0.1000901@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 10:24:48 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> Cecil Moore wrote: > Mike Coslo wrote: > >> May I assume that you believe that glacial cycles are the sole source >> of global warming or cooling? > > > Not the sole source - just the primary source. > 120,000 years ago, temperatures peaked higher > than they are presently. These cycles occur in > 100k-120k year intervals. CO2 levels always > zoom up and trail off gradually during the peak > temperatures. There is some sort of feedback > mechanism that takes the CO2 levels down. Everyone, from Ronald Reaqan to George Bush, knows that trees cause pollution. We need to listen to our leaders. They know more than we do. GW is a convenient lie. (Bush, that is) Article: 229412 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred Hambrecht" References: <1156865444.617650.136140@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156893698.495263.100150@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <1156938506.811395.322980@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <24pJg.12229$Qf.6259@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1157164222.192542.259610@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1157240391.318511.138610@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <84737$44fa2fbd$471d2636$25732@ALLTEL.NET> <1157250759.979459.43990@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <73156$44fa43a3$471d2636$20198@ALLTEL.NET> <1157252129.662561.277400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 10:03:55 -0400 Message-ID: <5f562$44fae6d0$471c615d$15646@ALLTEL.NET> Wah! Wah! Wah! Boo fricken Hoo... the mean old coder is picking on me... Get a life! Anyone that can get that emotional over not getting their way has more issues than not being able to copy code. You may want to consult a mental health worker... "an old friend" wrote in message news:1157252129.662561.277400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > Fred Hambrecht wrote: >> If you read beyond that line, you would have seen I was fulfilling the >> expectations of the no code troll... > > you were the stand procode jerk you mean > Article: 229413 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "edwin" Subject: dipole 11 meters Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 16:35:52 +0200 Message-ID: Hi there, I would like to make a dipole antenna for 11 meters, i have already made a half wave 2x 2.58 meter but like to try a full wave antenna 2x 5.17 meters, so far i figured it out is it impossible because i have to use a balun the say ?. is there anyone who can help me, or give me a link to make one? thanks for your help! Greetings Ed Article: 229414 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 10:44:39 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <%vrKg.14528$%j7.13002@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Message-ID: <-oqdnZ339KXKd2fZnZ2dnUVZ_oOdnZ2d@adelphia.com> Cecil Moore wrote: > Mike Coslo wrote: > >> Tell me why the CO2 levels *ALWAYS* drop after reaching 280 ppmv. > > > I'm content to observe the geological record and > see that the CO2 levels have always dropped from > that value for millions of years. I also don't > know why the nucleus of an atom contains quarks. Okay, I understand now. You don't actually know, perhaps don't even care to know, but you do know you don't like any of the proffered explanations. Just as a point of info, the "weak sun" solar constant during Precambrian times is at odds with the temperatures that they were seeing at the time - keeping in mind that "time" is a vague reference to the warm periods. Paleosol data indicates that CO2 concentrations were much lower than would be needed to offset the solar constant, and that CH4 levels of 100 - 10000 ppmv would have been needed to compensate. Sooo, CO2 levels by themselves are not a good indicator of "the whole story". CH4 is an even stronger greenhouse gas. It's also produced by life forms. Humans, termites, ruminants. There is something to look into. Perhaps the regulating mechanism is based on that? Maybe the next leeburull plot will be to take down the bean industry by banning them! ;^) > I also don't > know why the nucleus of an atom contains quarks. Quarks are just smaller "points" of matter that make up protons and neutrons. Nothing mysterious there. I think part of the confusion is over the goofy names that physicists insist on giving them. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229415 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Bob D." Subject: More Long Wire Questions Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 09:51:21 -0500 Message-ID: What impedance would an end-feed infinitely long wire in free space have? I'm about to put up 60 ft of wire 30 ft above the ground, and pipe it into my living room. At first I intended it for 'DC to Light' receive only with my new IC-R3 toy. But now I'm wondering if I could transmit into it on 2M and 440. (I know this sounds chincy, but it's bound to get out better than a rubber duck.) I figure at VHF and UHF 60 ft of wire would look like a beverage antenna, except this wire is going to be many, many wavelengths above the ground. So what does a wire many, many wavelengths long, many, many wavelengths high look like? Would I need a balun? What would be a good reference be for questions like this? The books I have here and Google never seem to have the info I'm looking for. -- Antennas - Last Refuse of the Homebrewer Bob Donahue ND9B Article: 229416 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: dipole 11 meters References: Message-ID: Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 14:54:16 GMT edwin wrote: > ... but like to try a full wave antenna 2x 5.17 meters, ... For maximum gain, you would need an Extended Double Zepp dipole. It would be approximately 13 meters long fed with a matching section of 450 ohm ladder-line that is approximately 1.8 meters long. Install ten turns of coax where the coax connects to the ladder-line. The above lengths would need to be adjusted, plus or minus, for lowest SWR. If you really want a full wave antenna, feed it with approximately 2.5 meters of 450 ohm ladder-line with ten turns of coax at the coax/ladder-line junction. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229417 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <%vrKg.14528$%j7.13002@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <-oqdnZ339KXKd2fZnZ2dnUVZ_oOdnZ2d@adelphia.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 15:03:03 GMT Mike Coslo wrote: > Okay, I understand now. You don't actually know, perhaps don't even > care to know, but you do know you don't like any of the proffered > explanations. I am satisfied with the geological record that contains multiple similar cycles. Sudden global warming is always followed by an ice age which would be particularly hard on you damned yankees. :-) > Quarks are just smaller "points" of matter that make up protons and > neutrons. So you don't actually know, perhaps don't even care to know, why quarks exist? :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229418 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Allodoxaphobia Subject: Re: More Long Wire Questions Date: 3 Sep 2006 15:06:27 GMT Message-ID: References: On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 09:51:21 -0500, Bob D. wrote: > -- > Antennas - Last Refuse of the Homebrewer Dude, you need a dictionary. And, you need to fix your sig delimiter. Article: 229419 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: More Long Wire Questions References: Message-ID: Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 15:16:36 GMT Bob D. wrote: > What impedance would an end-feed infinitely long wire in free space have? Since you're not in free space, I can tell you that the characteristic impedance of a horizontal wire over ground is: Z0 = 138*log(4D/d) where 'D' is height above ground and 'd' is wire diameter. The Z0 of #14 wire at 30 ft. is very close to 600 ohms. Since it is a log function, the Z0 doesn't change very fast as 'D' and 'd' are varied. An infinitely long wire would be a traveling wave antenna with a feedpoint impedance of Z0. However, your 60 ft. long wire is a standing-wave antenna and the feedpoint impedance depends upon the phase of the reflected wave. What are you planning to use as a counterpoise? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229420 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jerry Martes" References: Subject: Re: Convert DISH TV antenna for WIFI use. USB or RF FEED? Message-ID: <2rCKg.2028$%75.1589@trnddc05> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 15:22:38 GMT "Kaz" wrote in message news:lItKg.930$I71.63@trnddc01... >I am looking for an easy way to convert a standard DISH TV offset feed dish >for WIFI use. I desire to mount this thing on the rooftop for a long >distance rural link. I need to understand if it would be easier to go the >USB device route or what the ramifications are to going the traditional rf >and coax route? I think my install will require around 60 to 75 ft of feed >line. Could I use a wifi "extender" amplifier at midpoint to get past >feedline losses? If I go the coax route, what would be an easy way to feed >the dish? Could I use a tiny off-the-shelf external wifi antenna inside of >a can or do I need to homebrew something more extravagant? > > If I go the usb device route to feed the dish, how can I extend that far? > > I do need to connect this to a pc as a NIC or client, therefore remote > mounting a router wont do the job for me. Hi Kaz I have a system for extending WiFi using a Bridge mounted behind the offset TV dish. That allows me to connect to my lap top thru CAT-5 cable. As I read it, that wont work for your application. I'd like to learn more about why the CAT-5 isnt acceptable in some systems. Jerry (who is trying to extend wireless 1/4 mile to a shed in the farm) Article: 229421 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Bob D." Subject: Are all RG8s created equal? Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 10:32:41 -0500 Message-ID: I'm about to put up a V2000 6m/2m/70cm antenna. I've used 9913 in the past for 2m, but it's awfully stiff and expensive. I'm thinking of going with RG8 or a variant of RG8. Are they all the same? I want to minimize loss of course. Recommendations? BTW, what does the RG number signify anyway? The size? The construction? -- Bob Donahue ND9B Article: 229422 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Wimpie" Subject: Re: More Long Wire Questions Date: 3 Sep 2006 08:42:06 -0700 Message-ID: <1157298126.422255.315380@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: Regarding your very long wire antenna. Radiation pattern depends on the number of wavelengths that the wire is long. When it is very long, also the propagations speed inside the wire is going to count (some insulation, does slow down the propagation speed of the traveling wave a bit, reducing the far field radiation). Also the straightness of the line is important with very large Le/lambda. As propagation speed is equal to c, the radiation pattern will be a cone (with side lobes), the longer the wire with respect to wavelength, the narrower the cone will be (so a high directivity). But I believe it is not a useful antenne, the radiation pattern of such a line is not that good and maybe you don't want directivity. When you really want to experiment with long wires at VHF/UHF, a non-linear expanding two wire structure, fed from a balun would give better results. That gives a better radiation pattern (with side lobes). If you would prefer a V-structure, you have to adapt the angle between the wires depending on frequency to get highest directivity (high frequency requires small angle). The impedance of the single wire antenna shown at the antenna terminal depends on how you feed it. When you feed it from a gradually expanding coaxial structure (launcher), you don't need a balun and get wide band behavior. The "return" conductor is the coaxial structure. When you insulate the wire it becomes a Goubau line (with less radiation). The impedance of the wire itself is more difficult. The standard formulas are only valid for cross sections much smaller than the wavelength. In your case Mother Earth is not the return conductor. Your wire is not terminated, so you may expect a reverse traveling wave that cause a cone like radiation pattern in the opposite direction (and of cause reflection into the transmitter). When you search for traveling wave antenna or surface wave antenna you will find useful information. Best Regards, Wim PA3DJS Article: 229423 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: More Long Wire Questions Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 09:00:57 -0700 Message-ID: References: On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 09:51:21 -0500, "Bob D." wrote: >So what does a wire many, many wavelengths long, many, >many wavelengths high look like? End-fire. Article: 229424 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: dipole 11 meters Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 09:04:29 -0700 Message-ID: References: On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 16:35:52 +0200, "edwin" wrote: >like to try a full >wave antenna 2x 5.17 meters, so far i figured it out is it impossible >because i have to use a balun the say ? Hi Edwin, A full wave antenna has no advantage over a half wave. It's mismatch is very bad. No BalUn is going to fix that. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229425 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 12:14:22 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1157164222.192542.259610@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1157240391.318511.138610@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <84737$44fa2fbd$471d2636$25732@ALLTEL.NET> <1157250759.979459.43990@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <73156$44fa43a3$471d2636$20198@ALLTEL.NET> <1157252129.662561.277400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <5f562$44fae6d0$471c615d$15646@ALLTEL.NET> On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 10:03:55 -0400, "Fred Hambrecht" wrote: >Wah! Wah! Wah! Boo fricken Hoo... the mean old coder is picking on me... Get >a life! Anyone that can get that emotional over not getting their way has >more issues than not being able to copy code. not geting emotional just calling a jerk a jerk > >You may want to consult a mental health worker... why? to help dianose your problem? > >"an old friend" wrote in message >news:1157252129.662561.277400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... >> >> Fred Hambrecht wrote: >>> If you read beyond that line, you would have seen I was fulfilling the >>> expectations of the no code troll... >> >> you were the stand procode jerk you mean >> > http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229426 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 3 Sep 2006 09:36:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1157301392.007432.276440@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com on Sun, Sep 3 2006 6:17 am >LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: >> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Sat, Sep 2 2006 3:43 pm >> >Fred Hambrecht wrote: >> >> We are better than you! Was there ever any doubt? If you can't learn code >> >> you are not only stupid but lazy as well! You have a welfare license, shut >> >> up and enjoy what was given to your whining ass... >> > >> >Mr Congenialty has spoken. >> >> Brian, sudden realization! We may have found the illegitimate >> biological father of Stebie Robeson! >> >> Same ego, same "better than you" bad attitude, same lack of good >> fellowship, same 9-year-old's sass, same-o same-o! Incredible! >> >> Then again he may be a cousin to that anony-mousie "Slow Code." >> Lots of inbreeding going on in the morsemen ranks. > >The family tree has few branches. The roots are dead, petrified (of change). >> I wonder where Jimmy Noserve is hiding? Fred said "shut up!" >> Jimmy would have a hissy fit if'n he saw that...:-) > >I wonder where robesin is hiding? Fred said "ass..." Jimmie Noserve showed up with his bimonthly Numbers (his period on?)...still trying to "prove" that Technician class licensees aren't really no-coders. :-) Robeson showed up wondering who "Robesin" is...only proving that the poor guy can't realize it is himself. He always was illiterate in regards to alliteration. >Welp, if Fred had a tour in Ohio as an Army recruiter back in the 70s... Ya know, that always bothered me. Why would an ex-NAVY person be "recruiting for the ARMY"? [explanation for the trash-mouth newcomers: Robesin once claimed - in here - that was what his late father did, but didn't say when or exactly where] The Army has always used active-duty Army NCOs for such tasks since before 1973 (the ending of the "Draft"). Strange LIE by Robeson, must have been done at time of some bad goods he swiped out of the Sharps box. A "Sharps box" is colloquial term for a plastic container (usually wall mounted) for biological waste in medical facilities, sometimes referred to as just a "Sharps." Made by B. D. Sharps company and not affiliated with the dullness of the pro-coders. They can be seen in most doctors' offices and hospitals all over the country. Robesin is going to come back and say "it's not nice to talk about medical things" as if he is some kind of code caduceus bearing "judge" of medicine. :-) He is a nurse (probably using a wastebasket-salvaged 1983 edition "Physician's Desk Reference" as his medical terminology guide). If he REALLY wanted some REAL rank, he could devote the next 9 years of his life to add MD after his name and honestly say he "saves lives." Tsk, he can't save his own life from the disease of impersonation. May a colony of helicobacter pylori set up housekeeping in his duodenum! :-) [he can share that with papa Fred] Freddie baby is prolly setting up a spittle session in here bitching and bad-mouthing anyone who doesn't want to relive times past a half-century ago when Kode was King. We'll see what his kind of foaming-at-the-mouth trash talk against "no- coders" will be. :-) LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229427 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Dave" References: Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 16:40:21 -0000 Message-ID: i don't know what 'RG' itself stands for, but the numbers describe different 'types' of cables... not necessarily construction or size. and no, all rg8's are definately not the same. what type of cable you want to use depends on the impedance, length needed, frequencies to be used, acceptable loss, and also flexibility, weather resistance, and power handling capability for transmitting... and then of course the big factor, cost. "Bob D." wrote in message news:sdmdnWzOZYoXaGfZnZ2dnUVZ_vadnZ2d@insightbb.com... > I'm about to put up a V2000 6m/2m/70cm antenna. I've used 9913 in the past > for 2m, but it's awfully stiff and expensive. I'm thinking of going with > RG8 or a variant of RG8. Are they all the same? I want to minimize loss of > course. Recommendations? > > BTW, what does the RG number signify anyway? The size? The construction? > > -- > Bob Donahue > ND9B > Article: 229428 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 3 Sep 2006 09:52:28 -0700 Message-ID: <1157302348.089072.81130@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com on Sun, Sep 3 2006 6:17 am > > >LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > >> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Sat, Sep 2 2006 3:43 pm > >> Then again he may be a cousin to that anony-mousie "Slow Code." > >> Lots of inbreeding going on in the morsemen ranks. > > > >The family tree has few branches. > > The roots are dead, petrified (of change). " whn the family becomes a family bush you can't can't hide as much under it" Regent to the Centari Reblic B5 JMS > > >> I wonder where Jimmy Noserve is hiding? Fred said "shut up!" > >> Jimmy would have a hissy fit if'n he saw that...:-) > > > >I wonder where robesin is hiding? Fred said "ass..." > > Jimmie Noserve showed up with his bimonthly Numbers (his period > on?)...still trying to "prove" that Technician class licensees > aren't really no-coders. :-) interest that he still does that of course he still goes on when he does post about being robbed in "incentive licensing" back roughly 50 years there was the real mistake and all the result of the ARRL's power being misused, everything since has been trying to clean up the mess that caused Tell before that point what was the Code test speed reqrired for the General License? some where I recall it being 5 wpm > > Robeson showed up wondering who "Robesin" is...only proving that > the poor guy can't realize it is himself. He always was > illiterate in regards to alliteration. nah he was trying to PRETED he does not know Deny Robeson what you will he does that well (and vilely) > > > >Welp, if Fred had a tour in Ohio as an Army recruiter back in the 70s... > > Ya know, that always bothered me. Why would an ex-NAVY person > be "recruiting for the ARMY"? [explanation for the trash-mouth > newcomers: Robesin once claimed - in here - that was what his > late father did, but didn't say when or exactly where] The Army > has always used active-duty Army NCOs for such tasks since before > 1973 (the ending of the "Draft"). Strange LIE by Robeson, must > have been done at time of some bad goods he swiped out of the > Sharps box. Indeed I comented on that last year said th Bio Steve wrote for his old looked like a lie that produced another of his aleged lawsuits that was going to filed against me > > A "Sharps box" is colloquial term for a plastic container > (usually wall mounted) for biological waste in medical > facilities, sometimes referred to as just a "Sharps." Made by > B. D. Sharps company and not affiliated with the dullness of > the pro-coders. They can be seen in most doctors' offices > and hospitals all over the country. > > Robesin is going to come back and say "it's not nice to talk > about medical things" as if he is some kind of code caduceus > bearing "judge" of medicine. :-) He is a nurse (probably > using a wastebasket-salvaged 1983 edition "Physician's Desk > Reference" as his medical terminology guide). If he REALLY > wanted some REAL rank, he could devote the next 9 years of > his life to add MD after his name and honestly say he "saves > lives." Tsk, he can't save his own life from the disease of > impersonation. May a colony of helicobacter pylori set up > housekeeping in his duodenum! :-) [he can share that with > papa Fred] I don't think Robeson could cut it leaving ot the issue of could Robeson do the courework (I am not surre I could) he could never survive the process with his temper he'd blow somewhere and likely kill some one (either by fucking up or flat out murder) he dropped out of Nursing school by his own admission (maybe he was asked to leave who knows) > > Freddie baby is prolly setting up a spittle session in here > bitching and bad-mouthing anyone who doesn't want to relive > times past a half-century ago when Kode was King. We'll see > what his kind of foaming-at-the-mouth trash talk against "no- > coders" will be. :-) yep unless the FCC grants us the mercy of the R&O first > > LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229429 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 3 Sep 2006 10:09:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1157303377.078933.152090@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> References: LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > From: Slow Code on Fri, Sep 1 2006 5:36 pm > > > >"LenAnder...@ieee.org" wrote in > >> Rick Frazier wrote: > >>> seeking mental help. If you don't think you need therapy, how about > >>> you get a life and if you are so Pro-CW, why aren't you on the bands > >>> right now? > > Excellent question, "Slow." Why didn't you answer it? becuase the answer is that there is nobody on we wants to "talk' to > > >>> Though I'm an Extra and passed the CW requirements shouldn't make a > >>> difference if I choose to operate phone. If the requirements change > >>> and new Hams aren't required to take the code test, am I going to be > >>> pissed? > >>> Hell no, because I took the tests when I did because I wanted to be a > >>> productive part of this hobby, not wait for an easier ticket in. I > >>> learned it, just as a huge number of others have, but none of us wish > >>> to push it like you seem to want to. Even the most die-hard CW fanatic > >>> is spending his time on the bands, not on the internet trolling for > >>> arguments. > > Nobody responding to your CQs, "Slow?" Is that why you are so > up-tight and angry in this forum? and still holding forlorn hope the FCC will somehow make people see the light and use CW the CW has seen the light that being they betrayed the ARS by listening to the ARRL what 50 years ago > >>> they wouldn't dare push it very far. On the other hand, the likelihood > >>> of actually being believed using standard, HF and CW procedures, or > >>> getting help in a timely manner to actually save a life is an extremely > >>> remote chance... > > You haven't answered that from a licensed amateur Extra, "Slow." > Why haven't you? Is it possible you don't know of anything in > radio except what the ARRL has spoon-fed you? perhaps not even that > > > >>> I rarely filter anyone, but you've definitely earned the "plonk" of > >>> being filtered. Say Bye-Bye ! ! ! > > "Slow," you've earned that "plonk" many times over. > > >>> --Rick AH7H > > > >> Thank you, Rick! You spoke volumes of reality in this new > >> millennium. > > > >And you're still just as stupid as you were before you read it. > > Now, now, "Slow," you are starting to sound like one of those > inbred bigoted morsemen in here. You can't discuss anything > reasonable-like, only cuss at those who disagree with you. :-) yet I do wonder if he isn't Robeson somedays but I am pretty sure he is just another bitter old that bought into "incetive Licesning) the brain child of the ARRL > > >Now go bullshit with Dr Death on 11 meters, and don't come back until you > >pull your head out of your ass. > > I don't know any "Dr Death," "Slow," nor do I operate on > "11 meters." > > Further, you are ten kinds of short on ability to threaten. > Your threats and "orders" become recycled electrons doing > nothing but dissipating a tiny bit of heat. amasing how they keep resorting to threats and orders > > Take YOUR beloved morse code test and shove it up YOUR ass. > Push real hard...there seems to be an obstruction there. > Must be your own four neurons in the way. > > Beep, beep > > LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229430 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred Hambrecht" References: <44fab415.1446061@news.optonline.net> Subject: Re: VERTICAL GROUND RADIAL QUESTION Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 12:23:11 -0400 Message-ID: <9b3a0$44fb0d2d$471f5ad8$6708@ALLTEL.NET> The size of the wire is not important on radials. Use what you have and enjoy. "Ron Goldstein--KA2IIA" wrote in message news:44fab415.1446061@news.optonline.net... >I am about to install a ground radial setup for my Butternut HF9V. Does it > matter if the wire is #14, #16, or #18, bare or insulated--buried or on > the > surface with radial staples ??? > > > RON....KA2IIA > ======================================================== > Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail. Article: 229431 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Richard Fry" References: Subject: Re: dipole 11 meters Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 13:09:09 -0500 Message-ID: <44fae838_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> "Richard Clark" > A full wave antenna has no advantage over a half wave. > It's mismatch is very bad. No BalUn is going to fix that. _____________ The peak, free-space gain of a full-wave linear dipole is about 1.65 dB greater than that of a 1/2-wave dipole. Its center fed impedance is high, but can be transformed at its feedpoint to match conventional transmission lines. Many AM broadcast stations use a 1/2-wave vertical monopole, which when working against a very good radial ground system constitutes a full-wave antenna. They do it to improve their groundwave field compared to a 1/4 wave monopole, and to reduce nighttime interference to their groundwave by their own skywave. But maybe the typical amateur operator would not consider these benefits worth the effort. RF Article: 229432 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 3 Sep 2006 11:22:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1157307751.743341.91370@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1156893698.495263.100150@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> an old friend wrote: > LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > > From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com on Sun, Sep 3 2006 6:17 am > > > > >LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > > >> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Sat, Sep 2 2006 3:43 pm > > > >> Then again he may be a cousin to that anony-mousie "Slow Code." > > >> Lots of inbreeding going on in the morsemen ranks. > > > > > >The family tree has few branches. > > > > The roots are dead, petrified (of change). > > " whn the family becomes a family bush you can't can't hide as much > under it" Regent to the Centari Reblic B5 JMS Ah! Another fan! [too bad that B5 got cancelled...] > > >> I wonder where Jimmy Noserve is hiding? Fred said "shut up!" > > >> Jimmy would have a hissy fit if'n he saw that...:-) > > > > > >I wonder where robesin is hiding? Fred said "ass..." > > > > Jimmie Noserve showed up with his bimonthly Numbers (his period > > on?)...still trying to "prove" that Technician class licensees > > aren't really no-coders. :-) > > interest that he still does that of course he still goes on when he > does post about being robbed in "incentive licensing" back roughly 50 > years there was the real mistake and all the result of the ARRL's power > being misused, everything since has been trying to clean up the mess > that caused Jimmie Noserve got hopeless when he tried to be some kind of "informed insider" into the aerospace business here and his attempts to "correct" REAL military veterans. He also tried to foist off his old "$100 rig" as his own design but it was really a near-copy of the "HBR" series that began in QST years ago. Jimmie made the mistake of posting on that (relatively new website) showing his HBR version, the very same photos he had in a link posted here when he claimed it was all "original." :-) > Tell before that point what was the Code test speed reqrired for the > General License? some where I recall it being 5 wpm > > > > Robeson showed up wondering who "Robesin" is...only proving that > > the poor guy can't realize it is himself. He always was > > illiterate in regards to alliteration. > > nah he was trying to PRETED he does not know > > Deny Robeson what you will he does that well (and vilely) Well, Robesin IS a PRETENDER to be sure... :-) > > >Welp, if Fred had a tour in Ohio as an Army recruiter back in the 70s... > > > > Ya know, that always bothered me. Why would an ex-NAVY person > > be "recruiting for the ARMY"? [explanation for the trash-mouth > > newcomers: Robesin once claimed - in here - that was what his > > late father did, but didn't say when or exactly where] The Army > > has always used active-duty Army NCOs for such tasks since before > > 1973 (the ending of the "Draft"). Strange LIE by Robeson, must > > have been done at time of some bad goods he swiped out of the > > Sharps box. > > Indeed I comented on that last year said th Bio Steve wrote for his old > looked like a lie that produced another of his aleged lawsuits that was > going to filed against me If he keeps up all those civil suit theats he may have to open a clothing store... > > A "Sharps box" is colloquial term for a plastic container > > (usually wall mounted) for biological waste in medical > > facilities, sometimes referred to as just a "Sharps." Made by > > B. D. Sharps company and not affiliated with the dullness of > > the pro-coders. They can be seen in most doctors' offices > > and hospitals all over the country. > > > > Robesin is going to come back and say "it's not nice to talk > > about medical things" as if he is some kind of code caduceus > > bearing "judge" of medicine. :-) He is a nurse (probably > > using a wastebasket-salvaged 1983 edition "Physician's Desk > > Reference" as his medical terminology guide). If he REALLY > > wanted some REAL rank, he could devote the next 9 years of > > his life to add MD after his name and honestly say he "saves > > lives." Tsk, he can't save his own life from the disease of > > impersonation. May a colony of helicobacter pylori set up > > housekeeping in his duodenum! :-) [he can share that with > > papa Fred] > > I don't think Robeson could cut it > > leaving ot the issue of could Robeson do the courework (I am not surre > I could) he could never survive the process with his temper he'd blow > somewhere and likely kill some one (either by fucking up or flat out > murder) he dropped out of Nursing school by his own admission (maybe he > was asked to leave who knows) Robesin has so MANY variations on his "experiences" that it isn't worthwhile trying to keep up... :-) > > Freddie baby is prolly setting up a spittle session in here > > bitching and bad-mouthing anyone who doesn't want to relive > > times past a half-century ago when Kode was King. We'll see > > what his kind of foaming-at-the-mouth trash talk against "no- > > coders" will be. :-) > > yep unless the FCC grants us the mercy of the R&O first Tsk, that won't stop the "investment" olde-tymers...they will be bad-mouthing no-code-test-advocates until their code keys are pried from cold, dead fingers. LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229433 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 3 Sep 2006 11:28:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1157308112.737588.110220@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 10:03:55 -0400, "Fred Hambrecht" > wrote: > > >Wah! Wah! Wah! Boo fricken Hoo... the mean old coder is picking on me... Get > >a life! Anyone that can get that emotional over not getting their way has > >more issues than not being able to copy code. > > not geting emotional > > just calling a jerk a jerk Congenial Freddie got rather emotional there... :-) > >You may want to consult a mental health worker... > > why? to help dianose your problem? Freddie wouldn't go... :-) LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229434 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Miller Subject: Re: VERTICAL GROUND RADIAL QUESTION Message-ID: References: <44fab415.1446061@news.optonline.net> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 18:56:07 GMT On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 10:53:11 GMT, solidgoldZZZ@optonline.net (Ron Goldstein--KA2IIA) wrote: >I am about to install a ground radial setup for my Butternut HF9V. Does it >matter if the wire is #14, #16, or #18, bare or insulated--buried or on the >surface with radial staples ??? > > > RON....KA2IIA >======================================================== >Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail. FYI both Lowes and Home Depot have 500-ft rolls of wire at pretty reasonable prices. bob k5qwg Article: 229435 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt) Subject: Re: Alinco EDX-2 Auto-tuner to IC706 Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 19:01:41 -0000 Message-ID: <12fm9klt7stmm0d@corp.supernews.com> References: <1157217920.482605.6330@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1157231918.911807.47200@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> >Thanks for the information! > >Yes, I have to push the Tune button on the 706 and the relays rattle >and then the red LED light on the 706 lights up. The built in SWR >meter shows a 3:1 SWR. I can change the frequency on the 706 and get a >lower SWR. > >I have noticed that the tuner does not "Tune" for very long. No where >as long as the DX70 took and it seems like maybe the "tune" process is >being cut short. When I change bands, it takes just a half a second to >tune which seems way too fast. > >Is this information give any more clues to what is going on? Hmmm. I had a possibly-similar problem when I tried to use an SGC autotuner with my Kenwood TS-2000. The two don't get along very well - the SGC often fails to achieve a match. This occurs when I use the Kenwood's external-tuner feature (which sends a 10-watt signal), or if I transmit CW or SSB. Sometimes the tuner wouldn't start to tune, other times it would chatter indefinitely and never achieve a match. The SGC tunes up the same antenna just fine with a Ten-Tec Scout sending 5-10 watts. I concluded that the problem was likely due to two factors: - The Kenwood's fixed 10-watt tuning signal is at the low end of the SGC's acceptable range. - The Kenwood's finals have a power-limiting (or power-foldback) high-SWR protection circuit. As the SGC tried different relay settings with different match-component combinations, and the SWR seen by the Kenwood varied, the Kenwood's power output jumped around... it would reduce power on the higher SWR combinations. This apparently "confused" the SGC - either dropping the power below the level that its SWR bridge was designed to sense accurately, or causing the match-search algorithm to interpret a better match as a worse one. The tuner worked fine with the Ten-Tec, which doesn't have a power-foldback SWR protection circuit. Now, as to the rapidity with which the tuner finds a "match" when you change bands, this might possibly be "as designed". Some tuners have frequency-based memory capability, and will re-tune to what they consider the best-available match without going through a full match-search. Doing a fast-match to a 3:1 SWR does seem odd, though. I have a hunch that the 706 may be running into the same sort of problem that the Kenwood TS-2000 did - its active high-SWR-protection circuit may be altering output power in a way which confuses the tuner. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! Article: 229436 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 3 Sep 2006 12:08:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1157310505.853574.33470@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > Mark@kb9rqz.com wrote: > > On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 10:03:55 -0400, "Fred Hambrecht" > > wrote: > > > > >Wah! Wah! Wah! Boo fricken Hoo... the mean old coder is picking on me... Get > > >a life! Anyone that can get that emotional over not getting their way has > > >more issues than not being able to copy code. > > > > not geting emotional > > > > just calling a jerk a jerk > > Congenial Freddie got rather emotional there... :-) indeed and who is getting there way > > > >You may want to consult a mental health worker... > > > > why? to help dianose your problem? > > Freddie wouldn't go... :-) yep would never go and only be draged there kick and beeping > > LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229437 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 15:26:45 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <%vrKg.14528$%j7.13002@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <-oqdnZ339KXKd2fZnZ2dnUVZ_oOdnZ2d@adelphia.com> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > Mike Coslo wrote: > >> Okay, I understand now. You don't actually know, perhaps don't even >> care to know, but you do know you don't like any of the proffered >> explanations. > > > I am satisfied with the geological record that contains > multiple similar cycles. Sudden global warming is always > followed by an ice age Incorrect! You state "is always" when the proper statement would be perhaps "has so far been". But I don't know if that is even correct, because I don't know what the definition of "sudden global warming" is. which would be particularly hard > on you damned yankees. :-) Brings a new meaning to Blue States...... > >> Quarks are just smaller "points" of matter that make up protons and >> neutrons. > > > So you don't actually know, perhaps don't even care to know, > why quarks exist? :-) Why yes, I do care to know! I would think that all the parts of my message that you snipped would indicate that I am rather curious about the world around me, and yet very skeptical of arguments that have more than one agenda. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229438 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 15:37:56 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> Message-ID: Richard Clark wrote: > On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 22:08:58 -0400, Mike Coslo > wrote: > > >> I only hope I live long enough to see how they figure out a way to >>blame it on the leeburulls! > > > Hi Mike, > > You only have to wait a couple of years for the Republicans to blame > Clinton (her or him, take your pick) for W. > > It'll take them a lot longer to come to terms that the Neocon agenda > was an eagerly embraced legacy of Trotskyite commies from New York. As a woman acquaintance who refuses to recycle anything because "It will just encourage the liberals", inadvertently pointed out to me, they'll be against anything the Demoncrats are for. Kinda fell into a trap they did... Have to find out what the leeburullls believe so that they can not believe it. > If > Republicans can't understand politics, they certainly can't be expect > to understand science. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229439 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Amerigo Vespucci" Subject: J Pole Message-ID: Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 19:53:28 GMT I don't have any 300 ohm twin leed and really(at this time) don't feel like doing the copper pipe thing .Is there another easy way to make one.My thoughts were to maybe take and attach some wires to a board say a 1x4 and just make it work accordingly.It's only for a temporary scanner antenna for in the back yard on my patio. The stock rubber duckie antenna doesn't recieve anything as I'm kinda out in the boonies and an antenna with some gain would work.I tried a magna mount CB antenna and believe it or not it was pulling in signals that weren't even resonant to the frequency it was designed for. So,in a nutshell there it is. Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions. Best regards, Will -- Humble to the humble , inflexible to the arrogant . Article: 229440 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 3 Sep 2006 13:00:21 -0700 Message-ID: <1157313621.225114.279900@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: From: an old friend on Sun, Sep 3 2006 10:09 am >LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: >> From: Slow Code on Fri, Sep 1 2006 5:36 pm >> >"LenAnder...@ieee.org" wrote in >> >> Rick Frazier wrote: >> >>> seeking mental help. If you don't think you need therapy, how about >> >>> you get a life and if you are so Pro-CW, why aren't you on the bands >> >>> right now? > >> Excellent question, "Slow." Why didn't you answer it? > >becuase the answer is that there is nobody on we wants to "talk' to Or maybe nobody wants to talk to him... :-) >the CW has seen the light that being they betrayed the ARS by listening >to the ARRL what 50 years ago I don't think the ARRL "betrayed the ARS". I believe that they sincerely thought that morsemanship was THEN a topmost skill of US radio amtaeurs. Fifty years ago would be 1956 and not long after the passing of ARRL co-founder (and president-for- life) Hiram Percy Maxim. "T.O.M." used his editorial pages to promote morsemanship in the 1920s and 1930s. The original core group of the ARRL were go-getters and smart enough to realize that, to make enough money as an organization that came out on top, PUBLICATIONS were the key to survival. ARRL was first a very small group of local New Englanders, formed 5 years after the first (and still surviving) national organization, the Radio Club of America. There were lots of "national club" competitors in the 1920s but those eventually dropped out. RCA still exists but is not much concerned with amateur radio. Prior to the Internet going public in 1991, the only major presence for US amateur radio in DC was the legal firm on retainer from the ARRL. ARRL kept promoting themselves as "representative" allegedly for the amateur to the FCC but suspiciously more like a "filter" of amateurs' opinions. That changed dramatically once the FCC got their website going and ramped up to take Comments electronically. The ARRL had to retain a second firm in DC for lobbying. The evidence is an observation of the number and kind of Comments on 98-143 "restructuring" versus Comments on all those Petitions and last year's NPRM concerning code testing elimination. The pro-code-test advocates' Comments were straight out of the League hymn book about morsemanship with a few adding in nebulous advantages for "homeland security" necessities! [those Petitions began after 11 Sep 01] What is more telling about the League's stubbornness on their pro-code-test stance is that the IARU took a firm stand on changing the ITU-R amateur radio regulations compulsory (by administrations) morse testing for any license having below-30-MHz privileges...the IARU wanted it OPTIONAL by all administrations (at their discretion) a good year BEFORE WRC-03. The ARRL wanted to keep the compulsory regulation. After WRC-03 the League took a neutral stance, neither for nor against code testing in the USA. It's still a "ARRL versus the World" situation. >> >> Thank you, Rick! You spoke volumes of reality in this new >> >> millennium. > >> >And you're still just as stupid as you were before you read it. > >> Now, now, "Slow," you are starting to sound like one of those >> inbred bigoted morsemen in here. You can't discuss anything >> reasonable-like, only cuss at those who disagree with you. :-) > >yet I do wonder if he isn't Robeson somedays but I am pretty sure he is >just another bitter old that bought into "incetive Licesning) the brain >child of the ARRL It should be abundantly clear that "Incentive Licensing" was never about "advancing" in amateur radio beyond getting TITLE, RAND, and STATUS. That was VERY important to the controlling coterie of the League, folks who wanted to be "better" than others...in a hobby activity. What "incentive licensing" DID create was just the opposite of "good fellowship" among amateurs, that of CLASS DISTINCTION and a "pecking order" based largely on morsemanship. The morsemen won it. Never mind that radio technology was already far advanced from the 1930s' style of amateur radio and that morse code was falling by the wayside in every other radio service, the League still (stubbornly) held to the belief that all amateurs "should" be able to be morse skilled...even four decades after the 1930s. The League lobbied for and got the "vanity license" system so that olde-tymers could get their 1x2 and 2x1 super-special guru-status callsigns. Even more status symbolism. Combining "vanity" calls and "incentive licensing" there was a perfect setup for all who managed to get both to crow and holler they WERE BETTER than all others. Good fellowship went out the window...rank, status, title RULED. >> >Now go bullshit with Dr Death on 11 meters, and don't come back until you >> >pull your head out of your ass. > >> I don't know any "Dr Death," "Slow," nor do I operate on >> "11 meters." > >> Further, you are ten kinds of short on ability to threaten. >> Your threats and "orders" become recycled electrons doing >> nothing but dissipating a tiny bit of heat. > >amasing how they keep resorting to threats and orders That's all they have left in this new millennium, Mark. Some of them, such as Blow Code and Hambrecht still think they are "better than others" in all aspects, not just morsemanship. They LIKE that. So much so that they are in great personal fear of losing that very precious rank, status, title, and privilege that MIGHT happen if the code test is eliminated. They will LOSE their "better than you" rationalization. Internally the sky will have fallen on their self-perceptions. Personally, I think radio and electronics is totally fascinating. So much so that I made a career choice of it while studying for an entirely different sort of work. Professional work, not some amateur dabbling, yet I liked to make electronic things in my home workshop. Things other than work-related tasks. It is FUN, personally rewarding, not "work." I got into Big Time HF comms 53 1/2 years ago and have seen what modes DO work well and on a 24/7 basis on long-haul circuits that HAD to be kept working. Years later some KID is trying to "moralize" me into "working on morsemanship?" He (or she) can go shove it somewhere...until he (or she) can prove they've done more than I in radio communications...which they have NOT done yet in here. Once, a very long time ago, I thought that becoming a "ham" was a cool deal. That was before the commsats, before technology had fully gotten with the semi- conductor era, before the wonderful way we can get over most of the world via PCs and the Internet. Why IS it that some have to be a grand champion of the 1930s over seven decades later? What are THEY trying to prove? I could care less about 1930s technology and the "radio standards" of then. I live in the NOW. If some dumbshit wants to moralize about "working" and "investing" he (or she) can go get some flagellation and suffer themselves for their own "cause." I'm not about to join him (or her) in such moralistic self- abuse/mis-use. If these self-styled emperors want to flap their new clothes in my direction, I'll just keep on pointing out that they are NAKED (and ugly). LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229441 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt) Subject: Re: J Pole Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 20:13:16 -0000 Message-ID: <12fmdqs6cdee68f@corp.supernews.com> References: In article , Amerigo Vespucci wrote: >I don't have any 300 ohm twin leed and really(at this time) don't feel like >doing the copper pipe thing .Is there another easy way to make one.My >thoughts were to maybe take and attach some wires to a board say a 1x4 and >just make it work accordingly. Sure, you can make that work. You'll need to fiddle with the lengths of the elements, and the attachment point of the coax to the matching section to get the best match. Using an MFJ or similar antenna analyzer will make the job easier. I built a J-pole somewhat like this by taping ordinary insulated hookup wire to the fiberglass shaft of a bicycle safety flag. It took a while to get the lengths and feedpoint position adjusted correctly, but once it was done I had an antenna which was 1.5:1 or better across the entire 2-meter band, and works very nicely when I ride "bicycle mobile" at a public-service event. If you aren't planning to transmit, you probably will have an easier job of it - your scanner will work acceptably even with a significant amount of mismatch at the antenna feedpoint. I'd suggest thoroughly waterproofing whatever piece of wood you use - treat it well with marine spar varnish or a similar outdoor-rated polyurethane or other varnish. This will ensure that the wood doesn't soak up rain moisture and change its electrical characteristics and de-tune the antenna. As another alternative, since you're scanning and would presumably prefer a wide antenna bandwidth, would be to make yourself a skeleton discone. A chunk of wood with holes drilled in it, and a dozen pieces of stiff wire, and a bit of simple soldering and you'd end up with an antenna which would probably receive acceptably over a very wide bandwidth. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! Article: 229442 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "J Tabor" Subject: FREEWARE - WinCAP Wizard - VOACAP Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 15:17:02 -0500 Message-ID: <12fme21scbre731@corp.supernews.com> Greetings, Our last invitation post was 14 Feb 2006. This one is similar but includes new information and an extra-special offer. What is WinCAP Wizard? WinCAP Wizard is the most powerful HF Communications Analysis Prediction package ever developed. Please understand I'm typically a humble type fellow. Unfortunately, if this message isn't compelling, you will likely ignore the tool and miss the offer. Good products do indeed sell themselves. But obviously, folks must first try the product. In a vast sea of amateur radio related products and tools, here is a tool you will probably like and, find very useful. Sure, you have product X, have used it for years and know it well, plus you are busy and don't have time to learn a new tool. But, does this logic keep you >from acquiring new hardware, like radios, antennas and computers? Of course not. You want free software; all of our software now defaults to freeware and provides basic functionality, sufficient for many users. The default WinCAP Wizard v4 download is known as QSL-ware. QSL-ware basically means freeware. . We do appreciate an email acknowledgement and comments - thus our term QSL-ware. This QSL-ware version provides unlimited point-to point and NCDXF beacon predictions. The extensive "Location Browser" provides a prefix search along with other useful information. The unique "Beacon SmartChart" and the Smart-Map-Geographic View are in this basic feature set. There are 2 point-to point charts and 3 beacon charts, each with numerous options, 4 point-to point reports and 4 beacon reports - all free. The registered version adds a lot of tools and functionality. The "Coverage-Analysis View", is an elaborate map with the ability to plot any of 7 parameters, for up to 9 frequencies and all 24 hours. View any hour and frequency for each predicted parameter with a mouse click. More? A DX-list plot and search are provided. The Coverage-Analysis View provides several additional unique features. Also included in the registered version is the "User Batch" prediction type. With the ability to analyze up to 18 unique circuits and present the results with 5 charts and 3 reports our user batch mode is both powerful and flexible. Special user-batch prediction "views" provide definite advantages for the contest-oriented op. The Contest-Plan SmartChart and Contest-Plan SmartReport deliver incredible insight into "when to be where" during the contest. These could also be useful to the savvy DXer. Sorry - I can't list all the advantages here - this is already too long. But if all this isn't enough, the registered WinCAP Wizard package includes GeoAlert-Extreme Wizard and Beacon Time Wizard, as a free bonus. A 60-day full trial key is available upon request. Try the software tools. If you don't think them worthy of being paid for, they revert back to the default QSL-ware/freeware mode and functionality, without time limit. Is there any question WinCAP Wizard is the leader in the HF propagation prediction category? If so, that thought should soon be wiped away. The next major version, v5, is due for release very soon. As we say, the best keeps getting better. Before a brief introduction on the main features of the new version, the special offer. Register v4 now and qualify for a free upgrade to v5. WinCAP Wizard v5 provides a "Contest-Log Manager" and imports Cabrillo format logs from 55 different HF contests; more contests can be added easily, upon request. The logs can then be plotted to the "area coverage" map view - with or without predictions. The logs can, of course, be filtered and plotted by day, band, hour and any combination of these. To my knowledge no other software exists to geocode calls for stations worldwide. There may be software that plots US, and even Canadian, calls. Do you know of any? Are you interested in this functionality? Can you imagine the possibilities? The v5 prefix search features are among the finest available. The QSL-ware version also benefits - through the Location Browser. Both USA and Canadian call lookup is provided. The primary purpose is log station geocoding but the ability is "way cool" and proving interesting. For example, using the prefix/call search on the area-coverage view, you can begin typing a call and the great-circle path is plotted; as you continue typing, the great-circle plot changes to show the prefix and - as you complete the call - the actual location is plotted. There are other minor enhancements over v4. The new WinCAP Wizard v5 provides an extensive set of powerful tools. Hopefully users will be able to easily do complex and interesting comparisons -that previously were too labor intense and time consuming. Still, if you use a competing tool, not to worry, they can surely add a few of our choice features. But it's doubtful they can add them all. In any case, you are invited to download and use WinCAP Wizard version 4 in the QSL-ware mode without time limit. You will also find several other useful amateur-radio related software products at www.taborsoft.com Don't miss the ID Wizard freeware. It provides a rich set of useful "tools". Thanks for reading this far. Hope to work you in a contest. Cheers, KU5S -- email sent to: denews@taborsoft.com is discarded without being seen. Sorry for any inconvenience. Article: 229443 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "art" Subject: Patent regulations Date: 3 Sep 2006 13:30:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1157315424.802359.127430@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Gentlemen, The regulations at the patent office used to accept a declaration for a patent claim if the claiment produced a written description of his invention which was also signed and dated by another person who stated that he had read it and understood its content, this document gave the claiment to claim rights over all those that follow that disclosure. I seemed to remember that the PTO changed things with respect to how they will deal with future claims where applications would be printed to the World when received. Did this have any affect with respect to the presigned declaration alluded to above? Any info would be appreciated especially if claims presented to the patent office provides seniority over pre dated signed claims that have yet to be forwarded to the PTO Regards Art Article: 229444 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: N2EY@AOL.COM Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 3 Sep 2006 13:49:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1157316564.302182.234400@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > From: an old friend on Sun, Sep 3 2006 10:09 am > >the CW has seen the light that being they betrayed the ARS by listening > >to the ARRL what 50 years ago > > I don't think the ARRL "betrayed the ARS". I believe that they > sincerely thought that morsemanship was THEN a topmost skill > of US radio amtaeurs. The FCC thought so too - well into the 1970s. > Fifty years ago would be 1956 and not > long after the passing of ARRL co-founder (and president-for- > life) Hiram Percy Maxim. Maxim died in 1936. 1956 was twenty years later. > "T.O.M." used his editorial pages > to promote morsemanship in the 1920s and 1930s. He also promoted many other things on those pages, such as technical progress, operating skills, public service, and the observance of government regulations. > The original core group of the ARRL were go-getters and smart > enough to realize that, to make enough money as an organization > that came out on top, PUBLICATIONS were the key to survival. Publications were one way to support the organization. They also supported amateur radio by offering low-cost information specifically for the radio amateur. > ARRL was first a very small group of local New Englanders, > formed 5 years after the first (and still surviving) national > organization, the Radio Club of America. But it didn't stay that way for long. By the time of the 1917 shutdown - just three years after ARRL was founded - it was a national organization. One of the cofounders, Charles H. Stewart, 3ZS, lived right here in Radnor, PA. Hardly "local" in those days. > There were lots of > "national club" competitors in the 1920s but those eventually > dropped out. Name some. > RCA still exists but is not much concerned with > amateur radio. It is a very small organization whose main activities seem to be honorary and historical. > > Prior to the Internet going public in 1991, the only major > presence for US amateur radio in DC was the legal firm on > retainer from the ARRL. There was nothing to stop others from doing the same thing. Nor from contacting FCC directly. > ARRL kept promoting themselves as > "representative" allegedly for the amateur to the FCC but > suspiciously more like a "filter" of amateurs' opinions. Why are you suspicious, Len? Anyone could petition the FCC directly, and many did, long before the Internet and ECFS. > That changed dramatically once the FCC got their website > going and ramped up to take Comments electronically. The > ARRL had to retain a second firm in DC for lobbying. All ECFS did was to make it easier to petition and comment. Back in the 1960s, when the changes known as "incentive licensing" were being debated, FCC received over 6000 comments from individuals and groups. There were at least 10 proposals besides the ARRL's. Those other proposals were taken seriously enough by FCC to get RM numbers. > The evidence is an observation of the number and kind of > Comments on 98-143 "restructuring" versus Comments on > all those Petitions and last year's NPRM concerning code > testing elimination. The pro-code-test advocates' Comments > were straight out of the League hymn book about morsemanship > with a few adding in nebulous advantages for "homeland > security" necessities! [those Petitions began after 11 Sep > 01] ?? The fact is that the majority of individuals who commented supported the retention of at least some Morse Code testing. The majority also supported elimination of the Morse Code test for the General Class license. > What is more telling about the League's stubbornness on their > pro-code-test stance is that the IARU took a firm stand on > changing the ITU-R amateur radio regulations compulsory > (by administrations) morse testing for any license having > below-30-MHz privileges...the IARU wanted it OPTIONAL by all > administrations (at their discretion) a good year BEFORE > WRC-03. The ARRL wanted to keep the compulsory regulation. Not true! Not true at all, Len. The fact is that way back in 2000 or 2001, the ARRL BoD changed their policy wrt S25.5. They decided to neither support nor oppose changes to ITU-R S25.5. Given the strong support from many other member countries to change S25.5, the ARRL's no-opinion policy pretty much guaranteed there would be majority support to change S25.5. > After WRC-03 the League took a neutral stance, neither for > nor against code testing in the USA. It's still a "ARRL > versus the World" situation. Wrong again, Len! In ARRL's petition to FCC, they proposed eliminating the Morse Code test for General but retaining it for Extra. The majority of individuals commenting on the NPRM wanted the test eliminated for General. The majority of individuals commenting on the NPRM wanted the test retained for Extra. The two majorities are not composed of all the same individuals, but they *are* majorities. > >> >> Thank you, Rick! You spoke volumes of reality in this new > >> >> millennium. > > > >> >And you're still just as stupid as you were before you read it. > > > >> Now, now, "Slow," you are starting to sound like one of those > >> inbred bigoted morsemen in here. You can't discuss anything > >> reasonable-like, only cuss at those who disagree with you. :-) > > > >yet I do wonder if he isn't Robeson somedays but I am pretty sure he is > >just another bitter old that bought into "incetive Licesning) the brain > >child of the ARRL > > It should be abundantly clear that "Incentive Licensing" was > never about "advancing" in amateur radio beyond getting TITLE, > RAND, and STATUS. "RAND"? Do you mean Remington Rand, Ayn Rand, or the South African monetary unit? > That was VERY important to the controlling > coterie of the League, folks who wanted to be "better" than > others...in a hobby activity. Nope. That's not what it was about at all, Len. Do try to get your history straight. The fact is that the "incentive licensing" changes were an attempt to *return* to a system something like that which existed before February 1953. The complexity of the final result was due in large part to it being pieced together from the numerous non-ARRL proposals mentioned earlier. btw, the 1951 restructuring that gave us the license classes with names rather than letters was not primarily driven by ARRL. > What "incentive licensing" DID create was just the opposite of > "good fellowship" among amateurs, that of CLASS DISTINCTION > and a "pecking order" based largely on morsemanship. How so? Did you forget about the written tests? > The > morsemen won it. Never mind that radio technology was already > far advanced from the 1930s' style of amateur radio and that > morse code was falling by the wayside in every other radio > service, the League still (stubbornly) held to the belief that > all amateurs "should" be able to be morse skilled...even four > decades after the 1930s. How many other radio services used Morse Code in 1966, Len? Was there a shortage of trained radiotelegraphers during the Vietnam War? > The League lobbied for and got the "vanity license" system so > that olde-tymers could get their 1x2 and 2x1 super-special > guru-status callsigns. Even more status symbolism. Should accomplishment not be rewarded? > Combining > "vanity" calls and "incentive licensing" there was a perfect > setup for all who managed to get both to crow and holler they > WERE BETTER than all others. Good fellowship went out the > window...rank, status, title RULED. btw, Len, did you ever manage to get your Extra out of the box? It's been more than six and a half years now... > >> Further, you are ten kinds of short on ability to threaten. > >> Your threats and "orders" become recycled electrons doing > >> nothing but dissipating a tiny bit of heat. > > > >amasing how they keep resorting to threats and orders > > That's all they have left in this new millennium, Mark. > > Some of them, such as Blow Code and Hambrecht still think > they are "better than others" in all aspects, not just > morsemanship. Well, maybe they are, Len. Or maybe they aren't. Why does it bother you so much? Do you have a need to look down on everyone? > They LIKE that. So much so that they are > in great personal fear of losing that very precious rank, > status, title, and privilege that MIGHT happen if the > code test is eliminated. How will any currently licensed amateur lose anything if the Morse Code test is eliminated? > They will LOSE their "better > than you" rationalization. How? If they really are better than you, they'll still be better without the test. And vice-versa. > Internally the sky will have > fallen on their self-perceptions. > > Personally, I think radio and electronics is totally > fascinating. Me too. Amateur radio particularly. > So much so that I made a career choice of > it while studying for an entirely different sort of > work. Funded by the taxpayers, too. > Professional work, not some amateur dabbling, > yet I liked to make electronic things in my home > workshop. Does being paid for something make someone automatically "better", Len? > Things other than work-related tasks. It > is FUN, personally rewarding, not "work." But not rewarding enough for you to get an amateur radio license, it seems. Or have you gotten that Extra out of its box, as you told us you were going to do, way back on January 19, 2000? > I got into Big Time HF comms 53 1/2 years ago and have > seen what modes DO work well and on a 24/7 basis on > long-haul circuits that HAD to be kept working. Using equipment supplied and paid for by others. With a team of several hundred people trained to do the job. That doesn't make you more qualified to judge what amateurs do - self-funded and largely self-trained. > Years > later some KID is trying to "moralize" me into "working > on morsemanship?" Is youth somehow wrong, Len? > He (or she) can go shove it > somewhere...until he (or she) can prove they've done > more than I in radio communications...which they have > NOT done yet in here. I see. What if someone older than you, with more radio experience, told you that you should work on your morse code skills? How would you react? > Once, a very long time ago, I thought that becoming a > "ham" was a cool deal. That was before the commsats, > before technology had fully gotten with the semi- > conductor era, before the wonderful way we can get > over most of the world via PCs and the Internet. What about your posting of January 19, 2000? > Why > IS it that some have to be a grand champion of the > 1930s over seven decades later? What are THEY trying > to prove? I could care less about 1930s technology > and the "radio standards" of then. I live in the NOW. Then why do you tell us so much about your past? btw, if you are *not* interested in becoming a ham, why are you so vocal about the requirements? > If some dumbshit wants to moralize about "working" and > "investing" he (or she) can go get some flagellation > and suffer themselves for their own "cause." I'm not > about to join him (or her) in such moralistic self- > abuse/mis-use. You sure seem to spend a lot of effort arguing about it, though. Why? > If these self-styled emperors want to > flap their new clothes in my direction, I'll just keep > on pointing out that they are NAKED (and ugly). Perhaps they are simply holding up a mirror..... Gee, Len, it's been more than three years since the ITU treaty changed. Some countries have eliminated Morse Code testing, some haven't, and at least one (Canada) has worked out a unique solution to the debate. Meanwhile the USA rules on the subject haven't changed since 2000. Are you frustrated because your will has not become law...yet? Article: 229445 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: N2EY@AOL.COM Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 3 Sep 2006 13:57:06 -0700 Message-ID: <1157317026.807617.101680@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > Now, now, "Slow," you are starting to sound like one of those > inbred bigoted morsemen in here. > Take YOUR beloved morse code test and shove it up YOUR ass. > Push real hard...there seems to be an obstruction there. > Must be your own four neurons in the way. > > Beep, beep Gee, Len....do you think posting that way will cause people to change their minds and agree with you? Do you think FCC would be convinced by such arguments? Is that sort of posting your idea of how a "professional" behaves? Article: 229446 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 13:59:48 -0700 Message-ID: References: <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 15:37:56 -0400, Mike Coslo wrote: >> It'll take them a lot longer to come to terms that the Neocon agenda >> was an eagerly embraced legacy of Trotskyite commies from New York. > > As a woman acquaintance who refuses to recycle anything because "It >will just encourage the liberals", inadvertently pointed out to me, >they'll be against anything the Demoncrats are for. Kinda fell into a >trap they did... Have to find out what the leeburullls believe so that >they can not believe it. Hi Mike, That won't work. One of the leading "conservatives," Richard Perle, was an aide to my state's Democratic Senator, Scoop Jackson, who stood politically just a few feet to the left of Hitler and Stalin (even Roosevelt's administration referred to us obliquely with "the 47 United States and the Soviet of Washington"). Let's face it, the administration has abandoned the church's teachings that we are the stewards of creation. Instead, the apocalyptic message from these nihilists (another Russian hallmark) is nothing matters because there's not much time left anyway. Such is the belief system of the neo-cannibals. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229447 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? Message-ID: <7kgmf2t7915pdjht5482t509iu2g60pqke@4ax.com> References: Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 21:20:10 GMT On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 10:32:41 -0500, "Bob D." wrote: >I'm about to put up a V2000 6m/2m/70cm antenna. I've used 9913 in the past >for 2m, but it's awfully stiff and expensive. I'm thinking of going with RG8 >or a variant of RG8. Are they all the same? I want to minimize loss of >course. Recommendations? > >BTW, what does the RG number signify anyway? The size? The construction? Cables advertised as RG8 should have similar characteristics, though the market contains sub standard products, and variants (eg foam dielectric). RG8 (or more commonly used RG213 which is similar in characteristics) is quite lossy at 70cm, and you might not find its loss acceptable, depending on the length of your run and your own requirements. For example, the loss on 30m of Belden 8267 (RG213) at 440MHz with a load end VSWR of 1.2 is 4.8dB, about two thirds of your transmitter power is lost in the cable. 9913 is a little better at 2.7dB, LDF4-50A at 1.4dB. Try your own scenario at http://www.vk1od.net/tl/tllc.php . If you think RG8 is stiff and expensive, you don't seem to have much experience of UHF. If you are more familiar with RG58C/U, it has a loss in the above scenario of 12dB, 6% efficiency, but it works for some. Re what is RG anyway? Google for info on the RG scheme, try searhing for "Radio Guide". Owen -- Article: 229448 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Amerigo Vespucci" References: <12fmdqs6cdee68f@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: J Pole Message-ID: Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 21:26:02 GMT "Dave Platt" wrote in message news:12fmdqs6cdee68f@corp.supernews.com... : In article , : Amerigo Vespucci wrote: : : >I don't have any 300 ohm twin leed and really(at this time) don't feel like : >doing the copper pipe thing .Is there another easy way to make one.My : >thoughts were to maybe take and attach some wires to a board say a 1x4 and : >just make it work accordingly. : : Sure, you can make that work. You'll need to fiddle with the lengths : of the elements, and the attachment point of the coax to the matching : section to get the best match. Using an MFJ or similar antenna : analyzer will make the job easier. : : I built a J-pole somewhat like this by taping ordinary insulated : hookup wire to the fiberglass shaft of a bicycle safety flag. It took : a while to get the lengths and feedpoint position adjusted correctly, : but once it was done I had an antenna which was 1.5:1 or better across : the entire 2-meter band, and works very nicely when I ride "bicycle : mobile" at a public-service event. : : If you aren't planning to transmit, you probably will have an easier : job of it - your scanner will work acceptably even with a significant : amount of mismatch at the antenna feedpoint. : : I'd suggest thoroughly waterproofing whatever piece of wood you use - : treat it well with marine spar varnish or a similar outdoor-rated : polyurethane or other varnish. This will ensure that the wood doesn't : soak up rain moisture and change its electrical characteristics and : de-tune the antenna. : : As another alternative, since you're scanning and would presumably : prefer a wide antenna bandwidth, would be to make yourself a skeleton : discone. A chunk of wood with holes drilled in it, and a dozen pieces : of stiff wire, and a bit of simple soldering and you'd end up with an : antenna which would probably receive acceptably over a very wide : bandwidth. The skeleton discone sounds like a neat idea.Do you have a diagram or something for that? Oh BTW I am a ham I am just working with limited resources at the moment. Call hre is Kilo Alpha 3 Victor India Delta . Nice to make the aquaintance. : : -- : Dave Platt AE6EO : Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior : I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will : boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! Article: 229449 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 3 Sep 2006 14:41:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1157319680.652604.198860@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > From: an old friend on Sun, Sep 3 2006 10:09 am > > > >LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: > >> From: Slow Code on Fri, Sep 1 2006 5:36 pm > >> >"LenAnder...@ieee.org" wrote in > >> >> Rick Frazier wrote: > >> >>> seeking mental help. If you don't think you need therapy, how about > >> >>> you get a life and if you are so Pro-CW, why aren't you on the bands > >> >>> right now? > > > >> Excellent question, "Slow." Why didn't you answer it? > > > >becuase the answer is that there is nobody on we wants to "talk' to > > Or maybe nobody wants to talk to him... :-) that too > > > >the CW has seen the light that being they betrayed the ARS by listening > >to the ARRL what 50 years ago > > I don't think the ARRL "betrayed the ARS". I believe that they > sincerely thought that morsemanship was THEN a topmost skill > of US radio amtaeurs. Fifty years ago would be 1956 and not > long after the passing of ARRL co-founder (and president-for- > life) Hiram Percy Maxim. "T.O.M." used his editorial pages > to promote morsemanship in the 1920s and 1930s. I think they betrayed it wether they meant to or not by as you will sowing the seeds for the battles that were to follow indeed in looking only back at Maxim I submit they betaryed even him > > The original core group of the ARRL were go-getters and smart > enough to realize that, to make enough money as an organization > that came out on top, PUBLICATIONS were the key to survival. > ARRL was first a very small group of local New Englanders, > formed 5 years after the first (and still surviving) national > organization, the Radio Club of America. There were lots of > "national club" competitors in the 1920s but those eventually > dropped out. RCA still exists but is not much concerned with > amateur radio. > > Prior to the Internet going public in 1991, the only major > presence for US amateur radio in DC was the legal firm on > retainer from the ARRL. ARRL kept promoting themselves as > "representative" allegedly for the amateur to the FCC but > suspiciously more like a "filter" of amateurs' opinions. > That changed dramatically once the FCC got their website > going and ramped up to take Comments electronically. The > ARRL had to retain a second firm in DC for lobbying. > > The evidence is an observation of the number and kind of > Comments on 98-143 "restructuring" versus Comments on > all those Petitions and last year's NPRM concerning code > testing elimination. The pro-code-test advocates' Comments > were straight out of the League hymn book about morsemanship > with a few adding in nebulous advantages for "homeland > security" necessities! [those Petitions began after 11 Sep > 01] > > What is more telling about the League's stubbornness on their > pro-code-test stance is that the IARU took a firm stand on > changing the ITU-R amateur radio regulations compulsory > (by administrations) morse testing for any license having > below-30-MHz privileges...the IARU wanted it OPTIONAL by all > administrations (at their discretion) a good year BEFORE > WRC-03. The ARRL wanted to keep the compulsory regulation. > After WRC-03 the League took a neutral stance, neither for > nor against code testing in the USA. It's still a "ARRL > versus the World" situation. > > > >> >> Thank you, Rick! You spoke volumes of reality in this new > >> >> millennium. > > > >> >And you're still just as stupid as you were before you read it. > > > >> Now, now, "Slow," you are starting to sound like one of those > >> inbred bigoted morsemen in here. You can't discuss anything > >> reasonable-like, only cuss at those who disagree with you. :-) > > > >yet I do wonder if he isn't Robeson somedays but I am pretty sure he is > >just another bitter old that bought into "incetive Licesning) the brain > >child of the ARRL > > It should be abundantly clear that "Incentive Licensing" was > never about "advancing" in amateur radio beyond getting TITLE, > RAND, and STATUS. That was VERY important to the controlling > coterie of the League, folks who wanted to be "better" than > others...in a hobby activity. > > What "incentive licensing" DID create was just the opposite of > "good fellowship" among amateurs, that of CLASS DISTINCTION > and a "pecking order" based largely on morsemanship. The > morsemen won it. Never mind that radio technology was already > far advanced from the 1930s' style of amateur radio and that > morse code was falling by the wayside in every other radio > service, the League still (stubbornly) held to the belief that > all amateurs "should" be able to be morse skilled...even four > decades after the 1930s. and therby betraying the fundental core of the service, a change that needs to removed altogether if possible hence my fovoring a oe 2 class license system with the prevedlges indentical to all the lclasses that exist (with modern radio I reconize it may be needed to have some sort of up or out license with 10 to do it becuase of the volume of material but the classes should be equal in preveledge and the class should not be a publicly accsable (except on an ARS wide) basis > > The League lobbied for and got the "vanity license" system so > that olde-tymers could get their 1x2 and 2x1 super-special > guru-status callsigns. Even more status symbolism. Combining > "vanity" calls and "incentive licensing" there was a perfect > setup for all who managed to get both to crow and holler they > WERE BETTER than all others. Good fellowship went out the > window...rank, status, title RULED. > > >> >Now go bullshit with Dr Death on 11 meters, and don't come back until you > >> >pull your head out of your ass. > > > >> I don't know any "Dr Death," "Slow," nor do I operate on > >> "11 meters." > > > >> Further, you are ten kinds of short on ability to threaten. > >> Your threats and "orders" become recycled electrons doing > >> nothing but dissipating a tiny bit of heat. > > > >amasing how they keep resorting to threats and orders > > That's all they have left in this new millennium, Mark. > > Some of them, such as Blow Code and Hambrecht still think > they are "better than others" in all aspects, not just > morsemanship. They LIKE that. So much so that they are > in great personal fear of losing that very precious rank, > status, title, and privilege that MIGHT happen if the > code test is eliminated. They will LOSE their "better > than you" rationalization. Internally the sky will have > fallen on their self-perceptions. > > Personally, I think radio and electronics is totally > fascinating. So much so that I made a career choice of > it while studying for an entirely different sort of > work. Professional work, not some amateur dabbling, > yet I liked to make electronic things in my home > workshop. Things other than work-related tasks. It > is FUN, personally rewarding, not "work." > > I got into Big Time HF comms 53 1/2 years ago and have > seen what modes DO work well and on a 24/7 basis on > long-haul circuits that HAD to be kept working. Years > later some KID is trying to "moralize" me into "working > on morsemanship?" He (or she) can go shove it > somewhere...until he (or she) can prove they've done > more than I in radio communications...which they have > NOT done yet in here. > > Once, a very long time ago, I thought that becoming a > "ham" was a cool deal. That was before the commsats, > before technology had fully gotten with the semi- > conductor era, before the wonderful way we can get > over most of the world via PCs and the Internet. Why > IS it that some have to be a grand champion of the > 1930s over seven decades later? What are THEY trying > to prove? I could care less about 1930s technology > and the "radio standards" of then. I live in the NOW. > If some dumbshit wants to moralize about "working" and > "investing" he (or she) can go get some flagellation > and suffer themselves for their own "cause." I'm not > about to join him (or her) in such moralistic self- > abuse/mis-use. If these self-styled emperors want to > flap their new clothes in my direction, I'll just keep > on pointing out that they are NAKED (and ugly). and inccreasingly cold and unfeeling and failing to fufill the debt they owe to those that came before them > > LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229450 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "art" Subject: Re: REG EDWARDS. CHEERS! Date: 3 Sep 2006 14:45:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1157319908.699014.65690@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <1157040328.531086.156050@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> Ay up m'duck I have been absent for some time from this group but now have received the sad news Reg was a rascal no doubt and engaged in many contraveries at the Rose and Crown or what ever was configured on the brass mitifs of the delivery horse Knowing how Reg thought I suspect that he kept his black country accent to the end where he would delight in those that thought with such an accent could not possibly be one of an educated.person. As an old timer from the East End of London and later from Nottingham I know the difficulties of pursuing education when at the age of fourteen one left the school yard for the mines or any way to make a living. Yet Reg somehow overcame a lot of fences at that time and not only made it but made it with distinction. This is a special day where englishmen reflect upon a similar day in '39 when people were fully aware that in the corner of all battlefields there lies a piece of England and frankly Reg has done us all proud in what he has achieved in life and no doubt is now debating those who were waiting for him. At this time you will take more than one look at men who simply look like him in a searching manner but the true realisation will come when you will stand tall again and relish in the recall of old times. Dads do pass away as mine did but his style of living affected how you lived and will live. I will miss Reg even tho I was anoyed at him many times but always drawn to what he had to say about the hobby. I send my best wishes to all the family where all should be told that tho he may well have left us what he had to say is indelibly written in many parts of the World Cheers and beers Art KB9mz.....XG Penguin wrote: > Many thanks for all the kind words about Reg. I'm new to newsgroups but > have followed avidly dad's two favourite groups over the last 24 hours. > (It somehow makes me feel closer to him). I'm especially pleased to > read that you are trying to keep dad's website alive (cheers for that) > and also the postings from those who say they are still learning from > his programs. Dad was definitely all for education and it would have > warmed the cockles of his heart to have read such postings. (Somehow, I > think he is reading them and will be watching you from afar). My > brother Pete is the one to do all the technical 'stuff' in preserving > the website, My "technical"experience concerning antenna only extends > to remembering to remove the aerial before entering the car wash! TTFN > Jean Proctor.( Reg's proud daughter) Article: 229451 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "g. beat" <@> References: <422%c.26724$Z14.8702@news.indigo.ie> Subject: Re: Hy-gain ant query Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 16:59:52 -0500 Message-ID: "SM0YPT" wrote in message news:SM0YPT.2dj0hj@news.radiobanter.com... > > Denis O' Flynn Wrote: >> >> >> I have the 3 part numbers of the coils - 10M (870138). 15M (870135) and >> 20M >> coil (870369). There is also a 40M coil on top of the flat washer with >> no >> part number on it. The flat washer has holes which appear to have been >> a >> groundplane or a cap. hat. >> >> Seems to be an HyGain 18AVT. The coil on top is the 80M resonator. The >> flat washer is for the 4 top radials (11 1/4" long). >> /Goran Wennersten SM0YPT > Same questions asked on QRZ.COM last week. Couple of OMs had the manual -- search there. gb Article: 229452 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 18:14:19 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <%vrKg.14528$%j7.13002@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <-oqdnZ339KXKd2fZnZ2dnUVZ_oOdnZ2d@adelphia.com> Message-ID: Mike Coslo wrote: > REDACTED > Quarks are just smaller "points" of matter that make up protons and > neutrons. Nothing mysterious there. I think part of the confusion is > over the goofy names that physicists insist on giving them. > > - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - UP/DOWN, CHARM/STRANGE, TOP/BOTTOM ... Gosh almighty! Are Quarks really matter? Or highly concentrated clusters of energy? Do they have mass independent of energy? or, Wavelength? How would Heisenburg know anything about them? I think it is time to name a new computer controlled radio TOP/BOTTOM. Wouldn't that be CHARMing? It would certianly be STRANGE! Article: 229453 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 18:32:36 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <44FAE5B0.1000901@fuse.net> Message-ID: jawod wrote: SNIPPED > > Everyone, from Ronald Reaqan to George Bush, knows that trees cause > pollution. We need to listen to our leaders. They know more than we do. > > GW is a convenient lie. (Bush, that is) Trees cause polution /??????? You're kidding, I hope!! Trees are the solution to CO2 and global warming. Their process is: CO2 in, and O2 out. Now, fish life cause Methane; along with refried beans! Now to replace the depleted Ozone layer we need more thunderstorms. Lightning produces an 3O2 to 2O3 reaction. We should all have a Van DeGraff generator in our back yards to contribute to the replenishment of the O3 layer. Hydroplants that produce electricity add Nitrogen to the downstream H2O and that's bad. So, we better shut down the Hydro plants. Fission facilities are used to produce electricity but they produce long half life waste material. So, we better shut down the fission facilities. The carbon [oil/coal/coke] facilities produce SO2 and CO2 products. So, we better shut down the carbon power plants. Without that power we can't turn on our computers. So, we can all go back to talking on the real radio ... sorry, no electricty ... no radios. We add a generator to ur bicycles and get in shape while we make electricity. Wait! Wait! Wait! can't do that! Exercize increases CO2 gases when we exhale. Looks like we have to stop exhaling! If we can't exhale we better not inhale! And if we can't inhale who gives a damn about trees and pollution!! Article: 229454 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 15:39:11 -0700 Message-ID: <6bmmf2h7ticvpmnsniflvclu2ba95it1ah@4ax.com> References: <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <44FAE5B0.1000901@fuse.net> On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 18:32:36 -0400, Dave wrote: >And if we can't inhale who gives a damn about trees and pollution!! Try taking a breath with fewer trees and more pollution. Article: 229455 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 18:40:54 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: dipole 11 meters References: <44fae838_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> Message-ID: <-vudnSvKbb1pxGbZnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@comcast.com> There is a low impedance feedpoint for a full wavelength 11 meter antenna. Simply feed it 1/4 wavelength from the end and add an RF choke to the feedline. ------------------------------||---------- || 3 X 2.58 meters || 2.58 meter feed point Cecil can tell you the feed system details. /s/ DD, W1MCE Richard Fry wrote: > "Richard Clark" > >> A full wave antenna has no advantage over a half wave. >> It's mismatch is very bad. No BalUn is going to fix that. > > _____________ > > The peak, free-space gain of a full-wave linear dipole is about 1.65 dB > greater than that of a 1/2-wave dipole. Its center fed impedance is > high, but can be transformed at its feedpoint to match conventional > transmission lines. > > Many AM broadcast stations use a 1/2-wave vertical monopole, which when > working against a very good radial ground system constitutes a full-wave > antenna. They do it to improve their groundwave field compared to a 1/4 > wave monopole, and to reduce nighttime interference to their groundwave > by their own skywave. > > But maybe the typical amateur operator would not consider these benefits > worth the effort. > > RF Article: 229456 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 3 Sep 2006 15:42:13 -0700 Message-ID: <1157323333.200429.160460@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: N2EY@AOL.COM wrote: > LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > > > Now, now, "Slow," you are starting to sound like one of those > > inbred bigoted morsemen in here. > > > > Take YOUR beloved morse code test and shove it up YOUR ass. > > Push real hard...there seems to be an obstruction there. > > Must be your own four neurons in the way. > > > > Beep, beep > > Gee, Len....do you think posting that way will cause people to change > their minds and agree with you? psoibly but not likely > > Do you think FCC would be convinced by such arguments? no but then Fcc was not being addressed > > Is that sort of posting your idea of how a "professional" behaves? it certainly was the proper professional response caling a jerk a kerk is simply being honest Article: 229457 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> Message-ID: <_ZIKg.14624$1f6.14601@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 22:49:30 GMT Richard Clark wrote: > Let's face it, the administration has abandoned the church's teachings > that we are the stewards of creation. They have also abandoned the teachings of Jesus, like "Turn the other cheek", "Do good to them who hate you", and "Blessed are the meek". -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229458 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: From: jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <44FAE5B0.1000901@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 22:55:02 GMT Dave wrote: > jawod wrote: > SNIPPED > > > > Everyone, from Ronald Reaqan to George Bush, knows that trees cause > > pollution. We need to listen to our leaders. They know more than we do. > > > > GW is a convenient lie. (Bush, that is) > Trees cause polution /??????? You're kidding, I hope!! > Trees are the solution to CO2 and global warming. Their process is: CO2 in, and > O2 out. Sorry, some trees do cause pollution. Some trees produce huge amounts of isoprene, notably oak. Some trees produce nitrogen oxides, notably pine. Every wonder why the Blue Hills of Kentucky and Blue Mountains in Australia are that way? Hydrocarbon pollution from trees. Google for it. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. Article: 229459 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: dipole 11 meters Message-ID: References: Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 23:14:55 GMT On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 16:35:52 +0200, "edwin" wrote: >Hi there, >I would like to make a dipole antenna for 11 meters, i have already made a >half wave 2x 2.58 meter but like to try a full >wave antenna 2x 5.17 meters, so far i figured it out is it impossible >because i have to use a balun the say ?. >is there anyone who can help me, or give me a link to make one? >thanks for your help! >Greetings Ed > Ed, You are collecting the full range of answers here which must be a little confusing. It seems that you are talking about horizontally polarised antennas. That might be a disadvantage if you were working local stations using vertical polarisation, less a worry for ionospheric paths or where the other station is also horizontally polarised. The full wave dipole does have a little gain in some directions, but understand that power is not created in the antenna, the higher gain antenna just distributes the energy more in certain directions. The gain in some direction(s) is at the expense of less gain in other directions. (BTW, the gain is so little that you are unlikely to notice it.) Depending on what you want to use it for, the gain / pattern of a full wave dipole might not be on average better than a half wave dipole, or an omnidirectional antenna. Indeed, some omnidirectional vertical antennas might be better for certain applications. Richard is right in telling you there is not much in it (though he may have been a little more emphatic), but centrefeeding a full wave dipole is a small challenge, but possibly beyond your knowledge and experience. You can offset the feedpoint, but it is not an ideal solution either, it that has its disadvantages (skewed pattern, Z<>50, feedline coupling because of asymmetry). If the stuff of antennas is interesting, perhaps you should consider pursuing an amateur licence? Owen -- Article: 229460 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44FB6BEF.1060208@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 19:57:35 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: Olbermann Speech References: Bob Miller wrote: > Pretty damned good. > > http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/08/30/keith-olbermann-delivers-one-hell-of-a-commentary-on-rumsfeld/ > > bob > k5qwg Not exactly on-topic but GREAT nevertheless. Article: 229461 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt) Subject: Re: J Pole Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 00:09:44 -0000 Message-ID: <12fmrm8qqg9h50@corp.supernews.com> References: <12fmdqs6cdee68f@corp.supernews.com> In article , Amerigo Vespucci wrote: > >The skeleton discone sounds like a neat idea.Do you have a diagram or >something for that? Oh BTW I am a ham I am just working with limited >resources at the moment. Call hre is Kilo Alpha 3 Victor India Delta . Nice >to make the aquaintance. Take a look at the discussion at http://www.radioreference.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8000.html You'll see a bunch of different homebrew discone designs there, including both traditional (solid sheet-metal disc and a sheet-metal cone) and skeleton (radial rods to make both the disc and the cone). The Diamond D130J is a commercial version of the latter. One simple way to put together a discone "on the cheap" - use a block of wood perhaps 2" in diameter and 2" high as the center insulator. Drill a 3/4" hole in the center, insert a piece of 3/4" dowel (the mast) and glue into place. Take 3 or 4 pieces of stiff copper wire 12" long, twist them together in the center, and the ends apart so that they form a flat disc of radial-like elements, solder the twisted section together, and mount on the top of the wood block with a couple of wire staples. Drill a set of 8 holes, angled upwards into the block at a 45" degree angle, and insert 12" wires or rods (forming the skeleton cone). Run a length of bare stranded wire around the inner ends of these wires or rods (right where they enter the block) and solder. Drill a hole upwards through the block, right beside the dowel. Now, run your RG58 (or whatever) feedline up the mast/dowel and zip-tie it into place. Remove a few inches of insulation, separate the braid from the center conductor, strip the end of the center conductor, run the stripped end up through the small hole you drilled and solder it to the junction of the six radiating spokes, and solder the coax braid to the wire which connects to all of the skeleton-code wires. Waterproof the end of the coax somehow (paint-on electrical "tape", perhaps). You now have a garage-built skeleton discone, akin to the Diamond D130 but a lot less expensive. [Probably a lot less rugged, too, but if it's just a temporary it should serve you well enough.] -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! Article: 229462 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 3 Sep 2006 17:10:48 -0700 Message-ID: <1157328647.944398.91150@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: N2EY@AOL.COM wrote: > Perhaps they are simply holding up a mirror..... > > Gee, Len, it's been more than three years since the ITU treaty changed. > Some countries have eliminated Morse Code testing, some haven't, and at > least one (Canada) has worked out a unique solution to the debate. > Meanwhile the USA rules on the subject haven't changed since 2000. > > Are you frustrated because your will has not become law...yet? Jim, welcome back. I guess Coslo's BBS was a little too quiet? billy beeper Article: 229463 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Miller Subject: Re: Olbermann Speech Message-ID: <9dtmf2tdherbucjga2hn49gi2lff698o7l@4ax.com> References: <44FB6BEF.1060208@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 00:40:20 GMT On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 19:57:35 -0400, jawod wrote: >Bob Miller wrote: >> Pretty damned good. >> >> http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/08/30/keith-olbermann-delivers-one-hell-of-a-commentary-on-rumsfeld/ >> >> bob >> k5qwg > >Not exactly on-topic but GREAT nevertheless. Yeah, I accidentally posted to the wrong group. Oh, well... bob k5qwg Article: 229464 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 3 Sep 2006 17:52:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1157331162.181245.233010@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > N2EY@AOL.COM wrote: > > > Perhaps they are simply holding up a mirror..... > > > > Gee, Len, it's been more than three years since the ITU treaty changed. > > Some countries have eliminated Morse Code testing, some haven't, and at > > least one (Canada) has worked out a unique solution to the debate. > > Meanwhile the USA rules on the subject haven't changed since 2000. > > > > Are you frustrated because your will has not become law...yet? > > Jim, welcome back. I guess Coslo's BBS was a little too quiet? did it ever get of the virual ground? > > billy beeper Article: 229465 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "G. Doughty" References: Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? Message-ID: Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 21:09:06 -0400 I just picked up 200 ft of rg8 at radio shack for 40 bucks. 10 bucks for 50 foot run. Anyways, there was a website I came across recently that showed the swr rating of different size rg cables based on band. I searched for rg8 and the site popped up. It was complete with charts, etc. Very nice. It only takes a few minutes to find if you don't mind trudging through the sites. Greg ki4bbl "Bob D." wrote in message news:sdmdnWzOZYoXaGfZnZ2dnUVZ_vadnZ2d@insightbb.com... > I'm about to put up a V2000 6m/2m/70cm antenna. I've used 9913 in the past > for 2m, but it's awfully stiff and expensive. I'm thinking of going with > RG8 or a variant of RG8. Are they all the same? I want to minimize loss of > course. Recommendations? > > BTW, what does the RG number signify anyway? The size? The construction? > > -- > Bob Donahue > ND9B > Article: 229466 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 3 Sep 2006 18:34:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1157333692.094489.268450@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com on Sun, Sep 3 2006 6:17 am > > >LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > >> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Sat, Sep 2 2006 3:43 pm > >> >Fred Hambrecht wrote: > > >> >> We are better than you! Was there ever any doubt? If you can't learn code > >> >> you are not only stupid but lazy as well! You have a welfare license, shut > >> >> up and enjoy what was given to your whining ass... > >> > > >> >Mr Congenialty has spoken. > >> > >> Brian, sudden realization! We may have found the illegitimate > >> biological father of Stebie Robeson! > >> > >> Same ego, same "better than you" bad attitude, same lack of good > >> fellowship, same 9-year-old's sass, same-o same-o! Incredible! > >> > >> Then again he may be a cousin to that anony-mousie "Slow Code." > >> Lots of inbreeding going on in the morsemen ranks. > > > >The family tree has few branches. > > The roots are dead, petrified (of change). Girdled. > >> I wonder where Jimmy Noserve is hiding? Fred said "shut up!" > >> Jimmy would have a hissy fit if'n he saw that...:-) > > > >I wonder where robesin is hiding? Fred said "ass..." > > Jimmie Noserve showed up with his bimonthly Numbers (his period > on?)...still trying to "prove" that Technician class licensees > aren't really no-coders. :-) Wow. Why would he think that? > Robeson showed up wondering who "Robesin" is...only proving that > the poor guy can't realize it is himself. He always was > illiterate in regards to alliteration. He lacks self-realization and self-actualization. > >Welp, if Fred had a tour in Ohio as an Army recruiter back in the 70s... > > Ya know, that always bothered me. Why would an ex-NAVY person > be "recruiting for the ARMY"? [explanation for the trash-mouth > newcomers: Robesin once claimed - in here - that was what his > late father did, but didn't say when or exactly where] The Army > has always used active-duty Army NCOs for such tasks since before > 1973 (the ending of the "Draft"). Strange LIE by Robeson, must > have been done at time of some bad goods he swiped out of the > Sharps box. He got his lies crossed-up, that's all. You're supposed to just go along with it. > A "Sharps box" is colloquial term for a plastic container > (usually wall mounted) for biological waste in medical > facilities, sometimes referred to as just a "Sharps." Made by > B. D. Sharps company and not affiliated with the dullness of > the pro-coders. They can be seen in most doctors' offices > and hospitals all over the country. Robesin as medical waste? Sure. Why not? He's a waste in so many ways. > Robesin is going to come back and say "it's not nice to talk > about medical things" as if he is some kind of code caduceus > bearing "judge" of medicine. :-) He is a nurse (probably > using a wastebasket-salvaged 1983 edition "Physician's Desk > Reference" as his medical terminology guide). If he REALLY > wanted some REAL rank, he could devote the next 9 years of > his life to add MD after his name and honestly say he "saves > lives." Tsk, he can't save his own life from the disease of > impersonation. May a colony of helicobacter pylori set up > housekeeping in his duodenum! :-) [he can share that with > papa Fred] Did you see his "conceed" to Mark in another thread? > Freddie baby is prolly setting up a spittle session in here > bitching and bad-mouthing anyone who doesn't want to relive > times past a half-century ago when Kode was King. We'll see > what his kind of foaming-at-the-mouth trash talk against "no- > coders" will be. :-) > > LenAnderson@ieee.org I don't care what Fred says. He's a bad impersonator of some of the great anti-Technicians of years past... Article: 229467 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Danny Richardson Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 18:36:16 -0700 Message-ID: <7l0nf2h3458h8uoq1gcegi7tl3imkjjcbf@4ax.com> References: On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 21:09:06 -0400, "G. Doughty" wrote: >I just picked up 200 ft of rg8 at radio shack for 40 bucks. 10 bucks for 50 >foot run. Anyways, there was a website I came across recently that showed >the swr rating of different size rg cables based on band. I searched for >rg8 and the site popped up. It was complete with charts, etc. Very nice. >It only takes a few minutes to find if you don't mind trudging through the >sites. > >Greg >ki4bbl > You really don't know for sure unless you measure it. Not a big deal if you've got a dummy load and a in-line watt meter. RG-8 is a type not a specification. Danny, K6MHE Article: 229468 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 19:00:12 -0700 Message-ID: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> References: G. Doughty wrote: > I just picked up 200 ft of rg8 at radio shack for 40 bucks. 10 bucks for 50 > foot run. Anyways, there was a website I came across recently that showed > the swr rating of different size rg cables based on band. I searched for > rg8 and the site popped up. It was complete with charts, etc. Very nice. > It only takes a few minutes to find if you don't mind trudging through the > sites. What's an SWR rating? The cable with the most loss will have the best SWR when feeding a mismatched load. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 229469 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 3 Sep 2006 19:11:18 -0700 Message-ID: <1157335878.209469.64060@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1156893698.495263.100150@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > > From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com on Sun, Sep 3 2006 6:17 am > > > > >LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > > >> From: hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com on Sat, Sep 2 2006 3:43 pm > > >> >Fred Hambrecht wrote: > > >> Then again he may be a cousin to that anony-mousie "Slow Code." > > >> Lots of inbreeding going on in the morsemen ranks. > > > > > >The family tree has few branches. > > > > The roots are dead, petrified (of change). > > Girdled. gridle yea maybe steve should try that for his next Cap Photo > > > >> I wonder where Jimmy Noserve is hiding? Fred said "shut up!" > > >> Jimmy would have a hissy fit if'n he saw that...:-) > > > > > >I wonder where robesin is hiding? Fred said "ass..." > > > > Jimmie Noserve showed up with his bimonthly Numbers (his period > > on?)...still trying to "prove" that Technician class licensees > > aren't really no-coders. :-) > > Wow. Why would he think that? > > > Robeson showed up wondering who "Robesin" is...only proving that > > the poor guy can't realize it is himself. He always was > > illiterate in regards to alliteration. > > He lacks self-realization and self-actualization. > > > >Welp, if Fred had a tour in Ohio as an Army recruiter back in the 70s... > > > > Ya know, that always bothered me. Why would an ex-NAVY person > > be "recruiting for the ARMY"? [explanation for the trash-mouth > > newcomers: Robesin once claimed - in here - that was what his > > late father did, but didn't say when or exactly where] The Army > > has always used active-duty Army NCOs for such tasks since before > > 1973 (the ending of the "Draft"). Strange LIE by Robeson, must > > have been done at time of some bad goods he swiped out of the > > Sharps box. > > He got his lies crossed-up, that's all. You're supposed to just go > along with it. or go shop at his clothing store for a civl suit > > > A "Sharps box" is colloquial term for a plastic container > > (usually wall mounted) for biological waste in medical > > facilities, sometimes referred to as just a "Sharps." Made by > > B. D. Sharps company and not affiliated with the dullness of > > the pro-coders. They can be seen in most doctors' offices > > and hospitals all over the country. > > Robesin as medical waste? Sure. Why not? He's a waste in so many > ways. > > > Robesin is going to come back and say "it's not nice to talk > > about medical things" as if he is some kind of code caduceus > > bearing "judge" of medicine. :-) He is a nurse (probably > > using a wastebasket-salvaged 1983 edition "Physician's Desk > > Reference" as his medical terminology guide). If he REALLY > > wanted some REAL rank, he could devote the next 9 years of > > his life to add MD after his name and honestly say he "saves > > lives." Tsk, he can't save his own life from the disease of > > impersonation. May a colony of helicobacter pylori set up > > housekeeping in his duodenum! :-) [he can share that with > > papa Fred] > > Did you see his "conceed" to Mark in another thread? did you notice how he put it said I would eat something that would on the other guy bascialy if steve was passive in aal sex with a man or if Robeson enaged in a fetish behavoir with another man? boy Robeson is straight (not judeging by that line he isn't) > > > Freddie baby is prolly setting up a spittle session in here > > bitching and bad-mouthing anyone who doesn't want to relive > > times past a half-century ago when Kode was King. We'll see > > what his kind of foaming-at-the-mouth trash talk against "no- > > coders" will be. :-) > > > > LenAnderson@ieee.org > > I don't care what Fred says. He's a bad impersonator of some of the > great anti-Technicians of years past... he may grow into the part but I doubt it Article: 229470 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: slow code on parade Date: 3 Sep 2006 19:30:57 -0700 Message-ID: <1157337057.630119.227160@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: Slow Code wrote: > "Fred Hambrecht" wrote in > news:84737$44fa2fbd$471d2636$25732@ALLTEL.NET: > > > They just want to be appliance operators Fred, they don't care if they > can't commute. I could commute I prefer not to Article: 229471 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "kd5sak" References: Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 02:32:40 GMT > I don't know what kind of cable Radio Shack is selling for that price, but > it must be very poor quality. Probably 5 times the loss of any quality > rg-8 size cable at 2 meters and above. RG-8 size cable of any type should > be atleast $ .50 per foot and more like $ .75 per foot or more. > > There should not be any tables for SWR for differant cables based on the > band. > Maybe you mean the loss in dB instead of SWR. > It was a close out special at $10 per 50 feet. I had to hit two stores before I found any, a Ham who was working at the first RS store had bought out all that his store had in stock. I bought a 100 feet at that price at the second store. I also have a 50 foot section of some of their RG-8 stuff I bought 20 years ago for SSB CB use (yes, I once was wooed by the dark side). Can't tell any real difference on HF frequencies when using the old RS RG-8 or some new RG-213 I got from Texas Towers. Harold KD5SAK Article: 229472 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: You'll probably never use CW to save a life, Date: 3 Sep 2006 19:39:04 -0700 Message-ID: <1157337544.501218.216150@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Slow Code wrote: > "LenAnderson@ieee.org" wrote in > news:1157242929.751563.162380@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > your proctologist called, they found your head. Slow Code:kook on parade Article: 229473 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Slow Code:kook on parade Date: 3 Sep 2006 19:50:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1157338236.194137.18080@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <44F90CEA.582E45A9@hotmail.com> Slow Code wrote: > "kb9rqz@hotmail.com" wrote in > news:1157251469.103713.112020@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com: > It is a war in ham radio. We're fighting to keep Markie and his lazy > friends from handing over the service to the CB'ers. no Mr Code we are fighting to keep you and yours from destorying Ham radio > > Sc Article: 229474 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 22:50:10 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> I want to know why an increased amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is not > warming the earth, when it should be (experimentally speaking) > > No Republican, Democrat, or religion answers accepted. Just science. > > - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - I don't understand. Are you claiming that the earth is NOT warming? BTW, I, for one, do not agree with the argument that if GW is cyclic, that human activity is not involved or is not important to it. (I HOPE Cecil was kidding about the campfire theory of the last cycle.) If the posters in this NG are really going to spend time refuting the veracity of GW as a phenomenon, I'm pretty disappointed. Antennas, anyone? Article: 229475 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Slow Code:kook on parade Date: 3 Sep 2006 19:52:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1157338354.313707.278060@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: Slow Code wrote: > > > I think if you're standing next to farting royalty, you're required to > take the blame. not in the USA Slow Code:kook on parade > > Sc Article: 229476 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: safemale Subject: Re: VHF/UHF antenna on a motorcycle Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 23:26:33 -0400 Message-ID: References: a 300 ome twinlead j pole is 2 band and pouting it is a peace ofd pvc pipe would make it self supproting and no ground plain needed On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:02:01 GMT, "Tom" wrote: >Hello all , > >I would like to install a VHF-UHF antenna on my motorcycle . It's a Suzuki >GSX750 . I did some tests with a Diamond NR-770H and it works well . The >only problem is that the antenna is to big for such a bike . >Afterwards i did a test with a Diamond NR-77 . The antenna is about 43 cm >and that's about the size i would like to use . >The problem i have with this antenna is the swr , it's to high . > >Anyone an idea how i can solve this problem ? > >Many thanks . > >Tom > > Article: 229477 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Sal M. Onella" References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Message-ID: <9yNKg.14673$lv.5771@fed1read12> Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 21:01:08 -0700 > "Cecil Moore" wrote in message > My cousin is a Dairy Farmer in PA. > His cows produce more CO2 per hour > than three GMC Pickup trucks running > at idle for the same time period. Wonder how > Mr. Gore would address this problem? Right after he invented the Internet, Al invented the cow-talytic converter. It doesn't makes much money but he's milking it for all it's worth. I have no beef with him over that. He can skim the cream if he needs to. He has no udder way to make a living. No bull. Article: 229478 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "art" Subject: Re: light HF beam (not wired) ? Date: 3 Sep 2006 21:09:06 -0700 Message-ID: <1157342945.967862.192900@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: <44f57bc1$1@news.vo.lu> Hi, I have used telescopic fishing poles ( known as crappie poles) for many years on HF yagis. You can obtain them on E Bay quite cheaply upto twenty feet long but in 4 foot sections.These are easily covered with sticky back aluminum foil obtainable at any hardware store. Also available is aluminum tape that has a backing of glass cloth. Advisable to add aluminum tape after rod is extended as pretaped sections become difficult to assemble. I have broken some over the years during experimentation but with various sections on hand it is a quick turn around to get back on the air. I once put 13 of these elements on a boom with no problem regarding weight and it appears they are made of a black fiber type material and ofcourse hollow As an aside sections have a standard taper such they cannot be pulled apart at the ends and no clamps needed.These are especialy easy to carrywhen hiking. Regards Art Thierry wrote: > Hi, > > I have already checked and I come back without the answer so maybe that some > of you could help me... > > Does it exist manufacturers of very light HF beams, using light and quite > resistant material instead on steel or aluminium, the purpose being to use > it on portable ops, in the field, on vacations or to install it for a > week-end or a very light mast. > > I don't speak of wired beam like hexabeam and others quad that require a lot > of time to be assembled and that are fragile, but standard 3 ele made of > light material (and I don't speak of bamboo, HI!) > There is well titanium but there are very expensive (see titanex)... > > Do you know any other very light material used to made HF beams, and some > URL of manufacturers ? > > Thanks in advance > > Thierry > ON4SKY > http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/menu-qsl.htm Article: 229479 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "art" Subject: Re: light HF beam (not wired) ? Date: 3 Sep 2006 21:09:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1157342950.084946.112820@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> References: <44f57bc1$1@news.vo.lu> Hi, I have used telescopic fishing poles ( known as crappie poles) for many years on HF yagis. You can obtain them on E Bay quite cheaply upto twenty feet long but in 4 foot sections.These are easily covered with sticky back aluminum foil obtainable at any hardware store. Also available is aluminum tape that has a backing of glass cloth. Advisable to add aluminum tape after rod is extended as pretaped sections become difficult to assemble. I have broken some over the years during experimentation but with various sections on hand it is a quick turn around to get back on the air. I once put 13 of these elements on a boom with no problem regarding weight and it appears they are made of a black fiber type material and ofcourse hollow As an aside sections have a standard taper such they cannot be pulled apart at the ends and no clamps needed.These are especialy easy to carrywhen hiking. Regards Art Thierry wrote: > Hi, > > I have already checked and I come back without the answer so maybe that some > of you could help me... > > Does it exist manufacturers of very light HF beams, using light and quite > resistant material instead on steel or aluminium, the purpose being to use > it on portable ops, in the field, on vacations or to install it for a > week-end or a very light mast. > > I don't speak of wired beam like hexabeam and others quad that require a lot > of time to be assembled and that are fragile, but standard 3 ele made of > light material (and I don't speak of bamboo, HI!) > There is well titanium but there are very expensive (see titanex)... > > Do you know any other very light material used to made HF beams, and some > URL of manufacturers ? > > Thanks in advance > > Thierry > ON4SKY > http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/menu-qsl.htm Article: 229480 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jimmie D" Subject: 20m "ringo" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 00:45:07 -0400 I am trying to build a 20meter 1/2wl end fed vertcal antena and havent had a lot of success. The antenna is for use at maximum legal power so I need componets in the network that will hold up. I have tried a J pole configuration that I never was able to properly tune and I have tried lump sum LC values that melted down with max power. I guess the last way is doable but not unless I want to spend really big bucks on new HV capacitors. I was thinking about the matching section on my Ringo Ranger. Why not just scale this up for 20M? The mechanics of it arent a real problem, I can fabricate most anything I would need. Seems like I've heard the mast for a Ringo needs to be at least a 1/4 wl long, is this true? Article: 229481 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jimmie D" References: <1155235817.845564.294860@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <12dn3tkpg44hu13@corp.supernews.com> <44DCE9F4.64748FE4@no_bpl_for_me.net> <81l3e2pi2e88kb9qufbh2tuua9ba63roup@4ax.com> <12e3o7p2n9l4re4@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: FCC reaffirms BPL... Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 01:41:18 -0400 "David G. Nagel" wrote in message news:12e3o7p2n9l4re4@corp.supernews.com... > Jim Higgins wrote: > >> On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 20:35:02 GMT, carl wrote: >> >> >>>Yes, it can't make money without large customer base. >>> >>>It is interesting, the head of the FCC has ZERO technical experience >>>within the RF arena, however, he holds several degrees from NC >>>Universitites, >>> >>>and is a lawyer. >>> >>>Just like the FCC comm. before him, Powell and Abernathy think BPL is >>>the Nirvana for internet. >>> >>>Would be cheaper for the power companies to run fiber cable on or under >>>the >>>existing poles that carry the big power to the dist. stations. >>> >>>Then they can deply wifi or other service. Or even lease the cable to >>>other >>>providers. >>> >>>Once the power co. can put the bpl into their rate base they can charge >>>customers >>>for the hardware even if they don't use bpl. >> >> >> And this is how BRL needs to be fought. Petition your Public Service >> commission to prevent startup and operating costs of BPL from being >> financed in any way by income from the sale or distribution of >> electricity. That's a logical request and it's BPL's death knell. >> >> > > > Unfortunately many Public Utility Commissions have decided to opt out of > the argument by declaring that the problem is a Federal one. The Indiana > Utility Regulatory commission is one such. > > Dave N Back in the early 80s I briefly worked for a cable company that rented space on power poles. I think someone told me that it cost the cable company 2 dollars a year per pole.The power companies should have continued along this line by istalling fiber on their poles and renting out he fiber and the poles. Article: 229482 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "G. Doughty" References: Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 08:12:24 -0400 Loss is right. Sorry about that. RS is trying to get rid of everything radio. These were on clearance. Normally sold for much more. "Ralph Mowery" wrote in message news:PJLKg.14263$Qf.4468@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net... > > "G. Doughty" wrote in message > news:T0LKg.9999$xk3.7812@dukeread07... >>I just picked up 200 ft of rg8 at radio shack for 40 bucks. 10 bucks for >>50 foot run. Anyways, there was a website I came across recently that >>showed the swr rating of different size rg cables based on band. I >>searched for rg8 and the site popped up. It was complete with charts, >>etc. Very nice. It only takes a few minutes to find if you don't mind >>trudging through the sites. >> >> Greg >> ki4bbl >> >> > I don't know what kind of cable Radio Shack is selling for that price, but > it must be very poor quality. Probably 5 times the loss of any quality > rg-8 size cable at 2 meters and above. RG-8 size cable of any type should > be atleast $ .50 per foot and more like $ .75 per foot or more. > > There should not be any tables for SWR for differant cables based on the > band. > Maybe you mean the loss in dB instead of SWR. > > Article: 229483 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 08:45:28 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? References: Message-ID: Ralph Mowery wrote: SNIPPED > I don't know what kind of cable Radio Shack is selling for that price, but > it must be very poor quality. Probably 5 times the loss of any quality rg-8 > size cable at 2 meters and above. RG-8 size cable of any type should be > atleast $ .50 per foot and more like $ .75 per foot or more. > > There should not be any tables for SWR for differant cables based on the > band. > Maybe you mean the loss in dB instead of SWR. > > One of the basic components of coax cable is the design of the outer shield. The measure of that shield is optical coverage. Cable is available with optical coverage that ranges from <80% to >95%. The optical coverage contributes to the shielding effectiveness and losses through the cable shield, leakage inductance. A quick test of shield design is the remove about 1 inch of jacket and inspect the shield . A tightly woven shield with a lay angle of close to 45 degrees will have excellent optical coverage. In the past, RS cable had optical coverage in the 75 to 80 percent range. /s/ DD Article: 229484 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 08:48:49 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: 20m "ringo" References: Message-ID: Feed it through a 1/4 wavelength stub. Jimmie D wrote: > I am trying to build a 20meter 1/2wl end fed vertcal antena and havent had a > lot of success. The antenna is for use at maximum legal power so I need > componets in the network that will hold up. I have tried a J pole > configuration that I never was able to properly tune and I have tried lump > sum LC values that melted down with max power. I guess the last way is > doable but not unless I want to spend really big bucks on new HV capacitors. > I was thinking about the matching section on my Ringo Ranger. Why not just > scale this up for 20M? The mechanics of it arent a real problem, I can > fabricate most anything I would need. Seems like I've heard the mast for a > Ringo needs to be at least a 1/4 wl long, is this true? > > Article: 229485 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44FC2351.1010000@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 09:00:01 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: You've Got Mail...But No Job! Fun at Radio Shack References: <1157024765.544514.143820@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> > It wouldn't hurt my feelings to see Radio Shack continue to downsize > other than the people losing their jobs. That always is a bad situation > but the company has forgotten what made it a growing company. I remember > years ago being able to go into a RS store and get practically any > electronic part within reason and actually talk to someone with enough > technical knowledge to know what it is and what it does. Like the rest > of corporate America, they have eliminated the jobs of the knowledgeable > so they can pay dolts a bit more than minimum wage. You know, I've now read so many of these RS slams...and, I suppose, they are mostly accurate. However, they are true due to the nature of a failing business model. That model tried to keep part of the business catering to the electronics experimenter. (You CAN still get caps, resistors, etc. there.) Their failure comes, in part, out of this desire to appease the very people who deride them for it. I bet I've been RS 4 times in a month, each time buying $10 or less in supplies. Who can pay the rent on such purchases? Hasn't anyone seen the same thing happen to hardware stores? The "good old days" of a knowledgeable hardware man spending more than 5 minutes with you to sell a 50 cent item are also mostly gone. The biggest difference is that hardware stores-of-old lost out to the "big box" hardware warehouses. If RS goes (and it probably will), there is no alternative to the electronics experimenter other than the internet. In my area, at least, there are no components, circuit boards, solder, etc in the "big box" stores. Maybe the rest of the stuff they sell is crap...now it's the same crap you can get at WalMart. I, for one, will miss RS if it goes. In fact, I have a bit of a soft spot for RS because that's where I got started getting interested in ham radio. Has it changed over the years? You bet. Why not get out an old picture of yourself and look in the mirror. Have YOU changed? John AB8O Article: 229486 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: 20m "ringo" References: Message-ID: <5tVKg.8073$q63.1724@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 13:01:53 GMT Jimmie D wrote: > I have tried a J pole > configuration that I never was able to properly tune ... Why did you give up before it was properly tuned? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229487 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: billy_shittydrawers_smith@yahoo.com Subject: Re: You've Got Mail...But No Job! Fun at Radio Shack Date: 4 Sep 2006 06:05:41 -0700 Message-ID: <1157375140.966995.56210@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> References: Billy Smith wrote: > Not Cocksucker Lloyd wrote: > > > Tharsheblowsboys wrote: > > > >>Perhaps if RS didn't sell so much redundant Sprint Telephones, overpriced > >>DVD players and TV's and their UTTERLY USELESS junk toys that > >>start to appear each Labor Day and multiply right up till Xmas, their sales > >>would rise. Personally however I would not miss them if each and every > >>RS were to close and the company was to go the way of FW Woolworth. > >>Most of the stuff you can get at RS you can usually get at Walmart for > >>50% less price anyway, plus Walmart employees are usually a tad more > >>intellegent than your average Radio Shack stooge. > >> > >> > >>"Unidyne" wrote in message > >>news:KOtJg.2624$JR5.444@dukeread11... > >> > >>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060830/ap_on_hi_te/radioshack_layoffs > >>> > >>>RadioShack uses e-mail to fire employees > >>> > >>>Wed Aug 30, 4:28 PM ET > >>> > >>>FORT WORTH, Texas - RadioShack Corp. notified about 400 workers by > >>>e-mail that they were being dismissed immediately as part of planned job > >>>cuts. > >>> > >>>Employees at the Fort Worth headquarters got messages Tuesday morning > >>>saying: "The work force reduction notification is currently in progress. > >>>Unfortunately your position is one that has been eliminated." > >>> > >>>Company officials had told employees in a series of meetings that layoff > >>>notices would be delivered electronically, spokeswoman Kay Jackson said. > >>>She said employees were invited to ask questions before Tuesday's > >>>notification on a company intranet site. > >>> > >>>Derrick D'Souza, a management professor at the University of North > >>>Texas, said he had never heard of such a large number of terminated > >>>employees being notified electronically. He said it could be seen as > >>>dehumanizing to employees. > >> > >>Wouldn't it be fun if, in the comming weeks, we start to hear of > >>many "disgruntled employee" shootings in the comming weeks? > >>Yeah! 'You've got questions, we got answers...BLAM!! - BLAM!!" > > > > > > Dumbass Markie couldn't even get a job at Radio Shack............ > > > > Oh the irony!! Plagiarize much, Fatass? >Haven't you been fired from a multitude of jobs for > posting on company time? Mwhahahahahha. What a loser! No wonder you are > now working at McDonald's. Except I've haven't ever been fired for posting on company time, idiot. (Or anything else) But I've seen your work history, fatass, you can't get a job anywhere except as a less than minimum wage pizza delivery boy. Article: 229488 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Danny Richardson Subject: Re: 20m "ringo" Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 06:31:56 -0700 Message-ID: <6kaof2te8lje39b7pvqssbsokn5r0fon8g@4ax.com> References: On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 00:45:07 -0400, "Jimmie D" wrote: >I am trying to build a 20meter 1/2wl end fed vertcal antena and havent had a >lot of success. The antenna is for use at maximum legal power so I need >componets in the network that will hold up. I have tried a J pole >configuration that I never was able to properly tune and I have tried lump >sum LC values that melted down with max power. I guess the last way is >doable but not unless I want to spend really big bucks on new HV capacitors. >I was thinking about the matching section on my Ringo Ranger. Why not just >scale this up for 20M? The mechanics of it arent a real problem, I can >fabricate most anything I would need. Seems like I've heard the mast for a >Ringo needs to be at least a 1/4 wl long, is this true? > You might want to consider this approach. http://k6mhe.com/files/DualBandVert.pdf Danny, K6MHE Article: 229489 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Miller Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? Message-ID: References: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 13:47:24 GMT On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 10:32:41 -0500, "Bob D." wrote: >I'm about to put up a V2000 6m/2m/70cm antenna. I've used 9913 in the past >for 2m, but it's awfully stiff and expensive. I'm thinking of going with RG8 >or a variant of RG8. Are they all the same? I want to minimize loss of >course. Recommendations? > >BTW, what does the RG number signify anyway? The size? The construction? The Wireman's Wirebook IV gives a pretty good history of coax: Going back to the 1940s, R = Radio Frequency; G = Government; 8 is a sequential number assigned for government approval, thus RG8/U with U = Universal Specification. That said, all of these terminologies are fairly obsolete to the modern manufacture of coax, according to the Wireman. bob k5qwg Article: 229490 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 4 Sep 2006 06:56:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1157378183.566653.224170@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1156938506.811395.322980@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> an old friend wrote: > hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > > Did you see his "conceed" to Mark in another thread? > > did you notice how he put it said I would eat something that would on > the other guy bascialy if steve was passive in aal sex with a man or if > Robeson enaged in a fetish behavoir with another man? boy Robeson is > straight (not judeging by that line he isn't) He has an unnatural interest in such things. Article: 229491 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 11:14:42 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Message-ID: jawod wrote: > I want to know why an increased amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is not > >> warming the earth, when it should be (experimentally speaking) >> >> No Republican, Democrat, or religion answers accepted. Just science. >> >> - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - > > > I don't understand. Are you claiming that the earth is NOT warming? Oh no, just the opposite. My point is that when the CO2 percentage of the atmosphere goes up, more heat is retained. If the increased retention of heat does not increase the surface temperature of the earth, then something is happening to keep that from happening. I have yet to see an attempted debunking of global warming that is not political in nature. > > BTW, I, for one, do not agree with the argument that if GW is cyclic, > that human activity is not involved or is not important to it. > > (I HOPE Cecil was kidding about the campfire theory of the last cycle.) Sure as he believes that Al Gore said he invented the Internet.... > If the posters in this NG are really going to spend time refuting the > veracity of GW as a phenomenon, I'm pretty disappointed. It's party doctrine, they have to! ;^) > Antennas, anyone? Okay, let us discuss the effects of global warming on the atmosphere, and therefore on RF propagation? - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229492 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 11:27:54 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: You've Got Mail...But No Job! Fun at Radio Shack References: <1157024765.544514.143820@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <44FC2351.1010000@fuse.net> Message-ID: <9OudnS3KUdVk2GHZnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@comcast.com> jawod wrote: SNIPPED > Has it changed over the years? You bet. Why not get out an old > picture of yourself and look in the mirror. Have YOU changed? > > John > AB8O > > > Have YOU changed? Not me!! I'm the same as the day I graduated from College!! 1960 2006 Height 5'9.5" 5"8.5" Weight 128# 241# Hair Brown grey ... what's left Knew everything Knows nothing single married (once ... 43+ years] W1MCE/General W1MCE/Extra [50+ years active] WAS/48 (really!) WAS/48 (still) DXCC/2 DXCC/255 [slow but steady] Exercize/marathons Exercize/bicycle ... long distance [close to the same] See! I'm the same! Article: 229493 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 08:33:02 -0700 Message-ID: References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 11:14:42 -0400, Mike Coslo wrote: > Okay, let us discuss the effects of global warming on the atmosphere, >and therefore on RF propagation? Hi Mike, That would then segue us into HAARP and the Global Warming of the Ionosphere.... 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229494 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: Re: trolling right along Date: 4 Sep 2006 09:21:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1157386898.013968.152590@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <1156938506.811395.322980@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > an old friend wrote: > > hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote: > > > > Did you see his "conceed" to Mark in another thread? > > > > did you notice how he put it said I would eat something that would on > > the other guy bascialy if steve was passive in aal sex with a man or if > > Robeson enaged in a fetish behavoir with another man? boy Robeson is > > straight (not judeging by that line he isn't) > > He has an unnatural interest in such things. an ynatural interest in a lot of things, there likely is his real pathology Article: 229495 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 4 Sep 2006 09:24:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1157387085.373625.293370@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: From: "an old friend" on Sun, Sep 3 2006 2:41 pm >LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: >> From: an old friend on Sun, Sep 3 2006 10:09 am >> >LenAnder...@ieee.org wrote: >> >> From: Slow Code on Fri, Sep 1 2006 5:36 pm >> >> >"LenAnder...@ieee.org" wrote in >> >> >> Rick Frazier wrote: > >> >> >>> seeking mental help. If you don't think you need therapy, how about >> >> >>> you get a life and if you are so Pro-CW, why aren't you on the bands >> >> >>> right now? >> > >> >> Excellent question, "Slow." Why didn't you answer it? >> > >> >becuase the answer is that there is nobody on we wants to "talk' to >> >> Or maybe nobody wants to talk to him... :-) > >that too :-) >> >the CW has seen the light that being they betrayed the ARS by listening >> >to the ARRL what 50 years ago >> >> I don't think the ARRL "betrayed the ARS". I believe that they >> sincerely thought that morsemanship was THEN a topmost skill >> of US radio amtaeurs. Fifty years ago would be 1956 and not >> long after the passing of ARRL co-founder (and president-for- >> life) Hiram Percy Maxim. "T.O.M." used his editorial pages >> to promote morsemanship in the 1920s and 1930s. > >I think they betrayed it wether they meant to or not by as you will >sowing the seeds for the battles that were to follow > >indeed in looking only back at Maxim I submit they betaryed even him Careful, careful, Mark...Sister Nun of the Above, now the Mother SUPERIOR is BACK, ruler in hand, ready to spank the knuckles of anyone who DARES say anything negative about the blessed, sacred ARRL! I was literally going back 50 years to 1956 and remembering how both the electronics hobby and the (much, much bigger) electronics industry was doing...preparing to move to California and the aerospace industries that year. Frankly, the ARRL wasn't keeping up with the electronics industry other than keeping QST afloat with advertising revenue. Since they were largely unaware (from their publications) what the (then) long-haul radio communications were doing, they couldn't really decide which way to go for amateurs. Their decisions were based largely on ignorance, especially that of SSB. The commercial-military folks on HF were already USING SSB on HF and had been doing it for over two decades by 1956...yet the ARRL wanted amateurs to believe that "amateur radio 'pioneered' SSB." :-) Bullshit. >> >yet I do wonder if he isn't Robeson somedays but I am pretty sure he is >> >just another bitter old that bought into "incetive Licesning) the brain >> >child of the ARRL >> >> It should be abundantly clear that "Incentive Licensing" was >> never about "advancing" in amateur radio beyond getting TITLE, >> RAND, and STATUS. That was VERY important to the controlling >> coterie of the League, folks who wanted to be "better" than >> others...in a hobby activity. >> >> What "incentive licensing" DID create was just the opposite of >> "good fellowship" among amateurs, that of CLASS DISTINCTION >> and a "pecking order" based largely on morsemanship. The >> morsemen won it. Never mind that radio technology was already >> far advanced from the 1930s' style of amateur radio and that >> morse code was falling by the wayside in every other radio >> service, the League still (stubbornly) held to the belief that >> all amateurs "should" be able to be morse skilled...even four >> decades after the 1930s. > >and therby betraying the fundental core of the service, a change that >needs to removed altogether if possible hence my fovoring a oe 2 class >license system with the prevedlges indentical to all the lclasses that >exist (with modern radio I reconize it may be needed to have some sort >of up or out license with 10 to do it becuase of the volume of material >but the classes should be equal in preveledge and the class should not >be a publicly accsable (except on an ARS wide) basis Well, it's a subject which is damn clear to outside observers but the Believers are about to strike a blow for the Church of St. Hiram. Mother SIPERIOR is back in her habit of one-liner sentences thinking she can slay the dragons (of her mind) which defile the sanctity of the Newington folks who "know what is good for amateur radio!" :-) Prior to 1990 there were already FIVE different license classes in US amateur radio. The no-code Technician class made it SIX. A decade later the FCC chopped that in half. Rightly so in my estimation. It had gotten literally Byzantine in structure with the privileged bandplans and who could use what mode. It was worse than the commercial-professional operator licenses. The Restructuring was sorely needed for the avocational activities. The worst blow to the rank-status-title morsemen was cutting the code test rate down to a single, low one, well below the exhaulted, royal rate of 20 WPM that they overused for bragging rights before 1998. :-) Those extra super special morsemen lost NO PRIVILEGES ON THE BANDS but the sky fell in on their bragging rights. Boo-hoo, poor morsemen. :-) >> Once, a very long time ago, I thought that becoming a >> "ham" was a cool deal. That was before the commsats, >> before technology had fully gotten with the semi- >> conductor era, before the wonderful way we can get >> over most of the world via PCs and the Internet. Why >> IS it that some have to be a grand champion of the >> 1930s over seven decades later? What are THEY trying >> to prove? I could care less about 1930s technology >> and the "radio standards" of then. I live in the NOW. >> If some dumbshit wants to moralize about "working" and >> "investing" he (or she) can go get some flagellation >> and suffer themselves for their own "cause." I'm not >> about to join him (or her) in such moralistic self- >> abuse/mis-use. If these self-styled emperors want to >> flap their new clothes in my direction, I'll just keep >> on pointing out that they are NAKED (and ugly). > >and inccreasingly cold and unfeeling and failing to fufill the debt >they owe to those that came before them I disagree with you a bit...nobody "owes" anything other than bill payments, Mark. The rabid amateur morsemen are just full of themselves. They have lost their ability to RULE by that singular skill, are now worried that they might lose all their rank, title, status, and privileges when the code test is finally eliminated. Few of them seem to have much for themselves beyond that bragging right. LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229496 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jimmie D" References: <6kaof2te8lje39b7pvqssbsokn5r0fon8g@4ax.com> Subject: Re: 20m "ringo" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 12:28:03 -0400 That is EXACTLY what I tried less the relays. Problem is I dont have good enough caps for full power and probably will not get any. I am trying to make do with what I have. It worked fine with 100 watts. I am considering lengthening the antenna to 5/8 wl. This should give me a lot less voltage at the feedpoint and I shouldnt even need a capacitor. I did like the idea of dual band antenna . "Danny Richardson" wrote in message news:6kaof2te8lje39b7pvqssbsokn5r0fon8g@4ax.com... > On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 00:45:07 -0400, "Jimmie D" > wrote: > >>I am trying to build a 20meter 1/2wl end fed vertcal antena and havent had >>a >>lot of success. The antenna is for use at maximum legal power so I need >>componets in the network that will hold up. I have tried a J pole >>configuration that I never was able to properly tune and I have tried lump >>sum LC values that melted down with max power. I guess the last way is >>doable but not unless I want to spend really big bucks on new HV >>capacitors. >>I was thinking about the matching section on my Ringo Ranger. Why not just >>scale this up for 20M? The mechanics of it arent a real problem, I can >>fabricate most anything I would need. Seems like I've heard the mast for a >>Ringo needs to be at least a 1/4 wl long, is this true? >> > > You might want to consider this approach. > > http://k6mhe.com/files/DualBandVert.pdf > > Danny, K6MHE > Article: 229497 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 16:31:37 GMT Mike Coslo wrote: > I have yet to see an attempted debunking of global warming that is > not political in nature. May I ask exactly who those politicians were when global warming reversed itself 120k, 140k, 340k, and 440k years ago? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 229498 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jimmie D" References: <5tVKg.8073$q63.1724@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: 20m "ringo" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 12:30:05 -0400 "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:5tVKg.8073$q63.1724@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com... > Jimmie D wrote: >> I have tried a J pole configuration that I never was able to properly >> tune ... > > Why did you give up before it was properly tuned? > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Sold my antenna support, 3 story house. Article: 229499 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "LenAnderson@ieee.org" Subject: Re: You'll probably never have to use CW to save a life. Date: 4 Sep 2006 09:33:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1157387619.310943.170540@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: From: N2EY@AOL.COM on Sun, Sep 3 2006 1:57 pm >LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > >> Now, now, "Slow," you are starting to sound like one of those >> inbred bigoted morsemen in here. > >> Take YOUR beloved morse code test and shove it up YOUR ass. >> Push real hard...there seems to be an obstruction there. >> Must be your own four neurons in the way. >> >Gee, Len....do you think posting that way will cause people to change >their minds and agree with you? Oh, oh, here comes Mother Superior again, waving her ruler, a weapon of morale destruction! :-) >Do you think FCC would be convinced by such arguments? Mother, I'm NOT posting "to the FCC" here...just to a mixed group that includes rabid morsewomen such as yourself. >Is that sort of posting your idea of how a "professional" behaves? Tsk, tsk, Mother, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do." In here the AMATEURS hang out. Ergo, one must adopt language these AMATEURS us. If that means offending you, TS. You don't like that? Go back to the cloister. Pray for redemption of your soul after being among those you perceive as evil no-coders. :-) LenAnderson@ieee.org Article: 229500 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jimmie D" References: Subject: Re: 20m "ringo" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 12:44:33 -0400 "Dave" wrote in message news:Gtydnehm1t4yvWHZnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@comcast.com... > Feed it through a 1/4 wavelength stub. That was my first thought and I invisioned 16 ft of open wire line runing out across the yard. But now that I think of it this may be a workable solution. No reason it has to be stretched out straight, circle it around the antenna. Hmm back to Ringo again. > > Jimmie D wrote: > >> I am trying to build a 20meter 1/2wl end fed vertcal antena and havent >> had a lot of success. The antenna is for use at maximum legal power so I >> need componets in the network that will hold up. I have tried a J pole >> configuration that I never was able to properly tune and I have tried >> lump sum LC values that melted down with max power. I guess the last way >> is doable but not unless I want to spend really big bucks on new HV >> capacitors. I was thinking about the matching section on my Ringo Ranger. >> Why not just scale this up for 20M? The mechanics of it arent a real >> problem, I can fabricate most anything I would need. Seems like I've >> heard the mast for a Ringo needs to be at least a 1/4 wl long, is this >> true? > Article: 229501 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: 20m "ringo" References: <5tVKg.8073$q63.1724@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: <_RYKg.8118$q63.1852@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 16:53:14 GMT Jimmie D wrote: > "Cecil Moore" wrote in message >> Why did you give up before it was properly tuned? > > Sold my antenna support, 3 story house. The matching section for your 20m 1/2WL monopole can be mounted horizontal if it is more convenient. FP is where it connects to the 1/2WL vertical section. +-----------X-----------16.5'---------------+FP | +-----------Y-----------16.5'----------------open The coax connects at X and Y where the 50 ohm feedpoint is located. #14 or larger wire will handle anything legal that you can put into it. No high voltage capacitors required. No lossy coils required. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229502 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: nm5k@wt.net Subject: Re: 20m "ringo" Date: 4 Sep 2006 10:06:27 -0700 Message-ID: <1157389587.293272.121160@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: Jimmie D wrote: > "Dave" wrote in message > news:Gtydnehm1t4yvWHZnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@comcast.com... > > Feed it through a 1/4 wavelength stub. > > That was my first thought and I invisioned 16 ft of open wire line runing > out across the yard. But now that I think of it this may be a workable > solution. No reason it has to be stretched out straight, circle it around > the antenna. Hmm back to Ringo again. Have you tried using coax for the caps, same as the cushcraft ringos? I'm not sure how much power a cap made from say 213 would handle, but it going to be several hundred watts at the min.. I've built what you are building. It will work fine, and the height above ground is not that critical. But I eventually changed the antenna to be a 40 GP and a 5/8 GP for 17m. I used a relay to switch the loading coil for 17m in/out. The "gamma loop" for 20m is kinda large, so you need some stiff tubing to hold stable. IE: copper tube, etc.. MK Article: 229503 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jimmie D" References: Subject: Re: Help with Antenna Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 13:05:17 -0400 Just use a regular CB antenna. It will work fine. I had one of these radios years ago and used a little center loaded CB antenna that was just about 2 feet long I got from Kmart. Not a great antenna for CB but I could pick up 3 or four NOAA stations in the area. Even a full size CB antenna will work well with it. A discone antenna can be modified to work on both the NOAA frequencies and CB equally well by extending 3 of the rods that make the skirt of the antenna to 1/4 wl at CB freq and adding another1/4 wl section that extends vertically from the disk. "Kryptoknight" wrote in message news:Avzyg.187493$mF2.92075@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... >i just picked up a Midland radio 75-822 portable cb. it has the noaa >stations too. i am looking for a hi gain ruber ducky bnc antenna. can >anyone suggest one? > Article: 229504 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44FC6A86.2080107@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 14:03:50 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Cecil Moore wrote: > Mike Coslo wrote: > >> I have yet to see an attempted debunking of global warming that is not >> political in nature. > > > May I ask exactly who those politicians were when global > warming reversed itself 120k, 140k, 340k, and 440k years > ago? no :) Article: 229505 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44FC6B47.703@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 14:07:03 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: You've Got Mail...But No Job! Fun at Radio Shack References: <1157024765.544514.143820@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <44FC2351.1010000@fuse.net> <9OudnS3KUdVk2GHZnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@comcast.com> Dave wrote: > jawod wrote: > > SNIPPED > >> > Has it changed over the years? You bet. Why not get out an old > >> picture of yourself and look in the mirror. Have YOU changed? >> >> John >> AB8O >> >> >> > > Have YOU changed? > > Not me!! I'm the same as the day I graduated from College!! > > 1960 2006 > Height 5'9.5" 5"8.5" > Weight 128# 241# > Hair Brown grey ... what's left > Knew everything Knows nothing > single married (once ... 43+ years] > W1MCE/General W1MCE/Extra [50+ years active] > WAS/48 (really!) WAS/48 (still) > DXCC/2 DXCC/255 [slow but steady] > Exercize/marathons Exercize/bicycle ... long distance [close to the > same] > > See! I'm the same! > ...and you're a wise man to boot. Congratulations on the long marriage. The man who admits to knowing nothing is the one who knows most of all. :) Article: 229506 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bill Turner Subject: KE2QJ mobile matching network? Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 11:33:06 -0700 Message-ID: I came across the KE2QJ antenna matching network for HF mobile operation in the 2004 ARRL handbook and it looks interesting. It is designed to match a vertical whip which is not loaded itself, and uses a lower value coil at the base and theoretically should result in higher efficiency than the conventional loading method. Does anyone have any experience with it? -- Bill, W6WRT Article: 229507 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jimmie D" References: <5tVKg.8073$q63.1724@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> <_RYKg.8118$q63.1852@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: 20m "ringo" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:23:37 -0400 "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:_RYKg.8118$q63.1852@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com... > Jimmie D wrote: >> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message >>> Why did you give up before it was properly tuned? >> >> Sold my antenna support, 3 story house. > > The matching section for your 20m 1/2WL monopole can > be mounted horizontal if it is more convenient. FP > is where it connects to the 1/2WL vertical section. > > +-----------X-----------16.5'---------------+FP > | > +-----------Y-----------16.5'----------------open > > The coax connects at X and Y where the 50 ohm feedpoint > is located. #14 or larger wire will handle anything > legal that you can put into it. No high voltage capacitors > required. No lossy coils required. Thanks Cecil This was my first plan but I dont have room to run the stub straight out so I kind of tabled the idea for a while. Now that I have thought about it there is no reason I couldnt wrap it around the antenna. Talking with others sure helps the thought process. I still may play with the idea of the 20M Ringo design. It would be a lot of fun telling people you have a 20M Ringo Ranger. My only real problem with using the Ringo style matching network is that I heard once upon a time that the Ringo utilizes the mast as part of the radiator. The main thing I see the Ringo type match has going for it is that it would be about half the size of a 16.5 ft stub wrapped around the antenna Article: 229508 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 15:27:00 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Message-ID: I think the major political party was headed by Dino Sauer. He was in conflict with a king titled 'Rex' ... Tyrannosaurus Rex. /s/ DD :-) Cecil Moore wrote: > Mike Coslo wrote: > >> I have yet to see an attempted debunking of global warming that is not >> political in nature. > > > May I ask exactly who those politicians were when global > warming reversed itself 120k, 140k, 340k, and 440k years > ago? Article: 229509 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 15:29:18 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > Mike Coslo wrote: > >> I have yet to see an attempted debunking of global warming that is not >> political in nature. > > > May I ask exactly who those politicians were when global > warming reversed itself 120k, 140k, 340k, and 440k years > ago? C'mon Cecil, you know the advocates of GW deny it is a natural phenomena. Just wait until the next ice age, even a minor ice age, then they, the GW advocates, will be demanding more CO2 in the atmosphere. :-) Article: 229510 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: KE2QJ mobile matching network? References: Message-ID: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 19:40:35 GMT Bill Turner wrote: > It is designed to match a vertical whip which is not loaded itself, > and uses a lower value coil at the base and theoretically should > result in higher efficiency than the conventional loading method. For those of us who don't have the 2004 ARRL Handbook, could you describe the theory? If it is based on the old wives' tale that the current through a loading coil is constant, it is all wet. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229511 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "RHF" Subject: Re: Ethical Question Date: 4 Sep 2006 12:42:03 -0700 Message-ID: <1157398923.707540.325770@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Steve wrote: > Slow Code wrote: > > If you were in a crowded radio store and had to fart. Would you endure the > > pain and hold it in until you were alone, or would you silently let it out > > and hope someone else gets blamed for it? > > > > > > SC > > These aren't your only two options. You could simply let it rip and > proudly accept full responsibility. Some are The-Queen-of-Hearts and others are simply The-King-of-Farts [.] The-King-of-Farts would proudly proclaim : Yeah - I Did That ! and Yes My Name Is STINKY ! . . . . Article: 229512 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David" Subject: Is antenna a transducer to 377 ohms? Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:36:00 +0100 Message-ID: The impedance of free space / air is said to be 377 ohms. Impedance is ratio of E/H. The feedpoint impedance of an antenna is usually 50 or 75 ohms. Can an antenna ever be regarded as a transducer that transforms a radio wave >from 50 ohms to 377 ohms i.e. provides an impedance transformation? With a long tapered antenna, the feedpoint is at 50 ohms. Is the end of the antenna at 377 ohms to launch the wave easily into free space? In this case, antenna is a travelling wave antenna e.g. broad bandwidth biconical. Does the impedance gradually change from 50 ohms to 377 ohms over the length of the antenna? The impedance of the end of an antenna (open circuit), where it is a high voltage point, is usually 5K or 10K ohms. Article: 229513 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: 20m "ringo" References: <5tVKg.8073$q63.1724@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> <_RYKg.8118$q63.1852@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 19:44:45 GMT Jimmie D wrote: > Thanks Cecil This was my first plan but I dont have room to run the stub > straight out so I kind of tabled the idea for a while. Now that I have > thought about it there is no reason I couldnt wrap it around the antenna. There's no reason why you couldn't spiral it around the antenna like a pancake inductor. If you kept each spiral about a foot away from the next one, the area occupied would be pretty small. Good luck. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229514 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 19:49:26 GMT Dave wrote: > > Cecil Moore wrote: >> May I ask exactly who those politicians were when global >> warming reversed itself 120k, 140k, 340k, and 440k years >> ago? > > C'mon Cecil, you know the advocates of GW deny it is a natural phenomena. The democrats/socialists/communists are virtually always in denial. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229515 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David" Subject: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:44:17 +0100 Message-ID: RF transmitter output has impedance of 50 ohms and is connected to dipole with a feedpoint impedance of 50 ohms via feeder with characteristic impedance of 50 ohms. System is perfectly matched. I expect SWR meter to show perfect match of 1:1. Dipole has a standing wave on it. Ends of dipole are at high voltage. Dipole is centre-fed with centre being high current point. Standing wave means that a reflected wave exists. Wave is reflected from open ends of dipole. What happens to the reflected wave? How does it vanish at centre of dipole? Why does reflected wave not go along feeder into transmitter output? There cannot be a reflected wave on feeder because SWR is 1:1. Article: 229516 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Is antenna a transducer to 377 ohms? References: Message-ID: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 19:55:59 GMT David wrote: > The feedpoint impedance of an antenna is usually 50 or 75 ohms. The feedpoint impedance of a resonant standing wave antenna is a result of interference/superposition and is a virtual impedance equal to (Vfor-Vref)/(Ifor+Iref) The characteristic impedance of a standing wave antenna is actually several hundred ohms. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229517 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 16:07:11 -0400 From: John Popelish Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? References: Message-ID: <_OCdnYRzUozZGGHZnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@adelphia.com> David wrote: > RF transmitter output has impedance of 50 ohms and is connected to dipole > with a feedpoint impedance of 50 ohms via feeder with characteristic > impedance of 50 ohms. System is perfectly matched. I expect SWR meter to > show perfect match of 1:1. > > Dipole has a standing wave on it. Ends of dipole are at high voltage. Dipole > is centre-fed with centre being high current point. Standing wave means that > a reflected wave exists. Wave is reflected from open ends of dipole. What > happens to the reflected wave? How does it vanish at centre of dipole? Why > does reflected wave not go along feeder into transmitter output? There > cannot be a reflected wave on feeder because SWR is 1:1. > If the reflection is exactly in phase with the next wave arriving through the feed line, then it just raises the impedance the line sees. In other words, the reflection acts as a large part of the feed energy for the next cycle. It doesn't bounce into and out of the feed line, it bounces back and forth from end to end of the dipole. Actually there are two reflected waves going in opposite directions, end to end, simultaneously. Article: 229518 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? References: Message-ID: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 20:09:02 GMT David wrote: > RF transmitter output has impedance of 50 ohms and is connected to dipole > with a feedpoint impedance of 50 ohms via feeder with characteristic > impedance of 50 ohms. System is perfectly matched. I expect SWR meter to > show perfect match of 1:1. > > Dipole has a standing wave on it. Ends of dipole are at high voltage. Dipole > is centre-fed with centre being high current point. Standing wave means that > a reflected wave exists. Wave is reflected from open ends of dipole. What > happens to the reflected wave? How does it vanish at centre of dipole? Why > does reflected wave not go along feeder into transmitter output? There > cannot be a reflected wave on feeder because SWR is 1:1. If the feedpoint impedance of a dipole is 50 ohms it means that a Z0-match to 50 ohm coax has been achieved. To understand Z0-matches, please read my magazine article at: http://www.w5dxp.com/energy.htm *Note: the following values are ballpark approximations.* The SWR on a dipole at the feedpoint is about 20:1. The Z0 of a dipole is about 600 ohms. Here is the equation that governs the 50 ohm feedpoint impedance from a 100 watt source: (Vfor-Vref)/(Ifor+Iref) = 50 ohms (Vfor-Vref)*(Ifor+Iref) = 100 watts Vfor/Ifor = 600 ohms Vref/Iref = 600 ohms That's 4 equations and 4 unknowns. Go for it! The reflected wave "vanishes" because of destructive interference on the coax side at the Z0-match feedpoint. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229519 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? References: <_OCdnYRzUozZGGHZnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@adelphia.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 20:11:58 GMT John Popelish wrote: > If the reflection is exactly in phase with the next wave arriving > through the feed line, then it just raises the impedance the line sees. Wonder if I could convince you that it lowers the impedance the line sees since the voltages are 180 degrees out of phase and the currents are in phase for a 1/2WL dipole? The characteristic impedance of a dipole is in the hundreds of ohms. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229520 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 16:59:28 -0400 From: John Popelish Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? References: <_OCdnYRzUozZGGHZnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@adelphia.com> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > John Popelish wrote: > >> If the reflection is exactly in phase with the next wave arriving >> through the feed line, then it just raises the impedance the line sees. > > > Wonder if I could convince you that it lowers the impedance > the line sees since the voltages are 180 degrees out of > phase and the currents are in phase for a 1/2WL dipole? > The characteristic impedance of a dipole is in the > hundreds of ohms. You might. What is the feed point impedance of a dipole that has its ends terminated in the complex conjugate of their local impedance, so that no energy reflects at the ends? Article: 229521 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 13:58:21 -0700 Message-ID: References: On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:44:17 +0100, "David" wrote: >What happens to the reflected wave? Hi David, It is radiated. >How does it vanish at centre of dipole? It does not "vanish." >Why does reflected wave not go along feeder into transmitter output? Because you established there was a match at that port. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229522 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Is antenna a transducer to 377 ohms? Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 14:06:48 -0700 Message-ID: References: On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:36:00 +0100, "David" wrote: >The impedance of free space / air is said to be 377 ohms. Impedance is ratio >of E/H. Hi David, True only in free space. >The feedpoint impedance of an antenna is usually 50 or 75 ohms. Rarely true, but to the point of your posting, this is not substantially wrong. >Can an antenna ever be regarded as a transducer that transforms a radio wave >from 50 ohms to 377 ohms i.e. provides an impedance transformation? A transducer changes energy between domains. That is from electrical to acoustic, or back again. Or between electrical to photo-electric, or back again. And so on. What you are describing is transforming and the appropriate device name would be transformer, not transducer. To the intent of your statement, yes, an antenna is a transformer. >With a long tapered antenna, the feedpoint is at 50 ohms. Is the end of the antenna >at 377 ohms to launch the wave easily into free space? The ends of an antenna are no more important than the middle. Radiation occurs on the basis of the entire radiator, not simply "some" parts. >In this case, antenna >is a travelling wave antenna e.g. broad bandwidth biconical. Does the >impedance gradually change from 50 ohms to 377 ohms over the length of the >antenna? In fact it is quite the opposite. The biconical is a classic constant impedance structure. Thin antennas such as the typical doublet or dipole are non-linear. >The impedance of the end of an antenna (open circuit), where it is a high >voltage point, is usually 5K or 10K ohms. This is a characteristic, not an explanation. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229523 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: 20m "ringo" Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 14:11:11 -0700 Message-ID: References: <5tVKg.8073$q63.1724@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> <_RYKg.8118$q63.1852@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:23:37 -0400, "Jimmie D" wrote: >I heard once upon a time that the Ringo utilizes >the mast as part of the radiator. Hi Jimmie, What was meant was that the mast inappropriately became part of the radiator due to the design of the Ringo (which has had a reputation for being a dummy load). The problem with half-wave designs is they are high Z. Being high Z they are difficult to choke. Being difficult to choke, they appropriate masts, supports, feed lines, as additional radiation surfaces. When you add these lengths to the radiator (and they are co-linear) then your radiation lobes begin to climb into the sky (no one there to hear you) and the antenna becomes deaf and dumb. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229524 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 14:18:40 -0700 Message-ID: <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 15:29:18 -0400, Dave wrote: >> May I ask exactly who those politicians were when global >> warming reversed itself 120k, 140k, 340k, and 440k years >> ago? > >C'mon Cecil, you know the advocates of GW deny it is a natural phenomena. For our apocalyptic hugging crowd inside the beltway, there were no ice ages that long ago. There was no "that long ago" in the first place for an earth only 7000 years old. Of course, that could be the standard plausible deniability of the neo-cannibals at work to escape blame - Rove is trying to elevate the discussion by blaming Clinton for those ice ages. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229525 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 17:30:15 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> Message-ID: Richard Clark wrote: > On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 15:29:18 -0400, Dave wrote: > > >>>May I ask exactly who those politicians were when global >>>warming reversed itself 120k, 140k, 340k, and 440k years >>>ago? >> >>C'mon Cecil, you know the advocates of GW deny it is a natural phenomena. > > > For our apocalyptic hugging crowd inside the beltway, there were no > ice ages that long ago. There was no "that long ago" in the first > place for an earth only 7000 years old. Of course, that could be the > standard plausible deniability of the neo-cannibals at work to escape > blame - Rove is trying to elevate the discussion by blaming Clinton > for those ice ages. > > 73's > Richard Clark, KB7QHC Oh! I'm sure Hillary explained the ICE AGE to Bill after Monica! Article: 229526 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? Message-ID: References: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 21:41:31 GMT On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:44:17 +0100, "David" wrote: >RF transmitter output has impedance of 50 ohms and is connected to dipole >with a feedpoint impedance of 50 ohms via feeder with characteristic >impedance of 50 ohms. System is perfectly matched. I expect SWR meter to >show perfect match of 1:1. Accepting the figures as an example and not necessarily a reality... You have just described a point which is a junction between: - a load where the ratio of voltage to current is 50+j0; - a feedline where: * the ratio of the voltage to current due to the forward travelling wave must each be in the ratio 50+j0; * the ratio of the voltage to current due to the reflected travelling waves must each be in the ratio 50+j0. Having regard for the sign of the traveling waves, the only solution to those constraints / conditions is that the reflected travelling wave must have zero amplitude. > >Dipole has a standing wave on it. Ends of dipole are at high voltage. Dipole >is centre-fed with centre being high current point. Standing wave means that >a reflected wave exists. Wave is reflected from open ends of dipole. What >happens to the reflected wave? How does it vanish at centre of dipole? Why >does reflected wave not go along feeder into transmitter output? There >cannot be a reflected wave on feeder because SWR is 1:1. Lets be clear that we are now talking about a single frequency. At any point, the forward and reflected waves resolve to a single voltage at that point, and a single current flowing at that point, and the ratio of voltage to current is the impedance (and these are all complex quantities, ie they have real and imaginery parts). If the point you consider is the feedpoint, and the ratio of voltage to current is 50+j0, then that is the impedance, it fully describes the load at that frequency. You talk of the "reflected wave" as if it has inertia, that it must keep travelling when it reaches the junction of the feedline and the antenna? You are not alone in speaking that way, but thinking that way will get in the way of understanding what is happening. Next thing, you will be thinking that the reflected wave must travel back to the PA anode and will be absorbed there causing overheating. Owen -- Article: 229527 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim - NN7K Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? References: Message-ID: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:03:00 GMT Yeh, BUT, some coax has a smaller amount of copper in the shield, and is therefore lossier at VHF/UHF freqs. tho probably ok at HF. Also, look at the RG number on the outer shieth of the coax. IF it says " RG- 8 TYPE" instead of RG8, avoid it like the plague , if you want to use it at VHF-UHF , and "RG-8X" is another horse of a different color, too, at vhf. Also, remember, that if you are going to use for impedence transformation, that the velocity factor of Poly center insulator is .66 X the desired wavelength, while , Foam dielectric, is .8 X the desired wavelength. (No insulation, gives a velocity factor of 1.0). In short: you get what you pay for (no free lunch) Jim NN7K G. Doughty wrote: > I just picked up 200 ft of rg8 at radio shack for 40 bucks. 10 bucks for 50 > foot run. Anyways, there was a website I came across recently that showed > the swr rating of different size rg cables based on band. I searched for > rg8 and the site popped up. It was complete with charts, etc. Very nice. > It only takes a few minutes to find if you don't mind trudging through the > sites. > > Greg > ki4bbl > Article: 229528 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Richard Fry" References: Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 17:03:39 -0500 Message-ID: <44fc70ab_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> "Owen Duffy" wrote: >You talk of the "reflected wave" as if it has inertia, that it must > keep travelling when it reaches the junction of the feedline and the > antenna? You are not alone in speaking that way, but thinking that way > will get in the way of understanding what is happening. Next thing, > you will be thinking that the reflected wave must travel back to the > PA anode and will be absorbed there causing overheating. _______ If you write of reflected power existing on the transmission line between the tx output connector and the antenna input connector, then yes -- with sufficient tx output power and a poor enough match at the antenna feedpoint, that reflected power can cause transmission line and/or tx PA component failure. I've analyzed and repaired many such failures of these installed systems in my pre-retirement career, and know this first hand. Conventional theory also supports this result. RF Visit http://rfry.org for FM transmission system papers. Article: 229529 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim - NN7K Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:15:34 GMT Roy Lewallen wrote: > G. Doughty wrote: >> I just picked up 200 ft of rg8 at radio shack for 40 bucks. 10 bucks >> for 50 foot run. Anyways, there was a website I came across recently >> that showed the swr rating of different size rg cables based on band. > > What's an SWR rating? The cable with the most loss will have the best > SWR when feeding a mismatched load. > > Roy Lewallen, W7EL Not to mention that, at VHF (and other freqs, if you are so unfortunate, as to have cut the coax length just right, you can show a GREAT SWR, and still be in for problems (this like pruneing a coax for the "Best Match")! A way to Double Check for this, is to use a 1/4 wave (electrical) length of coax , OF the SAME impedance, in series with your feed line to the antenna. IF the SWR stays the same, Should have a match, BUT IF the SWR goes up, better check for match problems! As info, Jim NN7K Article: 229530 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? References: <_OCdnYRzUozZGGHZnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@adelphia.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:37:19 GMT John Popelish wrote: > You might. What is the feed point impedance of a dipole that has its > ends terminated in the complex conjugate of their local impedance, so > that no energy reflects at the ends? It's roughly approximately the same as a terminated Rhombic antenna, i.e. hundreds of ohms. Let's make some rough assumptions. The SWR on the 1/2WL dipole is 20:1 which makes rho roughly (20-1)/(20+1)= 0.9 That makes the power reflection coefficient (rho^2) roughly equal to 0.8 If we are supplying 100 watts to the antenna then Pfor - Pref = 100W and we know that Pref/Pfor = 0.8 So we can solve for Pfor = 500W and Pref = 400W. If we assume the Z0 of the dipole is 600 ohms, that makes Vfor = 548 volts and Ifor = 0.91 amps. Also Vref = 490 volts and Iref = 0.81. So (Vfor-Vref)/(Ifor/Iref) = (548-490)/(0.91+0.81) = 58V/1.72A = 34 ohms. But that is just half of the dipole's impedance so we have to double it to get a feedpoint impedance in the ballpark of 68 ohms. However, please note that 34 ohms is roughly the feedpoint impedance of a 1/4 wavelength monopole, i.e. half a dipole. These are obviously rough ballpark assumptions but you can observe the concepts involved. For the dipole feedpoint impedance to be low, the voltages have to subtract and the currents have to add. This agrees with the extra 180 degree phase shift that happens when the current is reflected at the ends of the dipole. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229531 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 18:44:57 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > Mike Coslo wrote: > >> I have yet to see an attempted debunking of global warming that is not >> political in nature. > > > May I ask exactly who those politicians were when global > warming reversed itself 120k, 140k, 340k, and 440k years > ago? A magnificent non sequitur, Cecil!! - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229532 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? Message-ID: References: <44fc70ab_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:52:10 GMT On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 17:03:39 -0500, "Richard Fry" wrote: >"Owen Duffy" wrote: >>You talk of the "reflected wave" as if it has inertia, that it must >> keep travelling when it reaches the junction of the feedline and the >> antenna? You are not alone in speaking that way, but thinking that way >> will get in the way of understanding what is happening. Next thing, >> you will be thinking that the reflected wave must travel back to the >> PA anode and will be absorbed there causing overheating. >_______ > >If you write of reflected power existing on the transmission line between >the tx output connector and the antenna input connector, then yes -- with >sufficient tx output power and a poor enough match at the antenna feedpoint, >that reflected power can cause transmission line and/or tx PA component >failure. The mechanism is not "that the reflected wave must travel back to the PA anode and will be absorbed there causing overheating". Take an example of the 50 ohms load discussed, and an electrical half wave of 70 ohm line connected to a transmitter designed for a 50 ohm load. The transmitter behaves exactly as if that line were 50 ohms. Though there is a reflected travelling wave on the line, it does not travel back to the PA anode where it is absorbed and converted to heat. At the tx end of the line, the forward and reflected wave components resolve to a 50+j0 load, and the transmitter sees the same 50 ohm load as it would were 50 ohm line used. Increasing power or increasing line Zo for a higher VSWR will not change the outcome of this example. Owen -- Article: 229533 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 18:46:00 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <44FC6A86.2080107@fuse.net> Message-ID: jawod wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: > >> Mike Coslo wrote: >> >>> I have yet to see an attempted debunking of global warming that is >>> not political in nature. >> >> >> >> May I ask exactly who those politicians were when global >> warming reversed itself 120k, 140k, 340k, and 440k years >> ago? > > no :) Maybe your answer was a lot better than mine!!! 8^) - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229534 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? References: Message-ID: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:53:34 GMT Owen Duffy wrote: > Having regard for the sign of the traveling waves, the only solution > to those constraints / conditions is that the reflected travelling > wave must have zero amplitude. Sorry Owen, that's not true. Assuming a 1/2WL dipole, the reflected voltage has traveled 180 degrees. The reflected current has traveled the same 180 degrees plus experienced a 180 degree phase shift at the tip of the dipole. Assuming 100 watts is being applied to the antenna, the following conditions satisfy the observed conditions on the dipole at the feedpoint. Pfor = 500W, Vfor = 548V, Ifor = 0.91A Pref = 400W, Vref = 490V, Iref = 0.81A Pnet = 100W, Vnet = 58V, Inet = 1.72A > You talk of the "reflected wave" as if it has inertia, that it must > keep travelling when it reaches the junction of the feedline and the > antenna? You are not alone in speaking that way, but thinking that way > will get in the way of understanding what is happening. It is well known that all EM waves contain energy and momentum (inertia) so David is correct. The thing that reverses the momentum of the reflected wave is destructive interference at the Z0-match point. Anyone interested in understanding how/why it happens is invited to peruse my energy analysis article at: http://www.w5dxp.com/energy.htm -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229535 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? Message-ID: References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 23:05:22 GMT On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:15:34 GMT, Jim - NN7K wrote: >a coax for the "Best Match")! A way to Double >Check for this, is to use a 1/4 wave (electrical) >length of coax , OF the SAME impedance, in series >with your feed line to the antenna. IF the SWR >stays the same, Should have a match, BUT IF the >SWR goes up, better check for match problems! >As info, Jim NN7K Jim, can you explain what is going on here, why what happens happens. It has more to do with what is happening on the outside of the coax than on the inside of the coax. Owen -- Article: 229536 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? References: <44fc70ab_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:59:52 GMT Owen Duffy wrote: > Take an example of the 50 ohms load discussed, and an electrical half > wave of 70 ohm line connected to a transmitter designed for a 50 ohm > load. The transmitter behaves exactly as if that line were 50 ohms. > Though there is a reflected travelling wave on the line, it does not > travel back to the PA anode where it is absorbed and converted to > heat. Of course not. Destructive interference redirects the energy back toward the load at the impedance discontinuity. The same thing happens with a 1/4WL thin-film on non-reflective glass. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229537 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? Message-ID: References: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 23:16:38 GMT On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:53:34 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Owen Duffy wrote: >> Having regard for the sign of the traveling waves, the only solution >> to those constraints / conditions is that the reflected travelling >> wave must have zero amplitude. > >Sorry Owen, that's not true. Assuming a 1/2WL dipole, ... Cecil, the statement was in the context of the previous paragraph. The travelling waves I was referring to where the ones I had just discussed which were on the transmission line (and NOT the dipole). Owen -- Article: 229538 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? References: Message-ID: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 23:18:11 GMT Owen Duffy wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: >> Sorry Owen, that's not true. Assuming a 1/2WL dipole, > > Cecil, the statement was in the context of the previous paragraph. The > travelling waves I was referring to where the ones I had just > discussed which were on the transmission line (and NOT the dipole). I apologize. I thought you were talking about the antenna. I just reread it and it's not clear to me what was being discussed. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229539 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim - NN7K Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 23:31:00 GMT Quite easily. Impedence matches repeat, every 1/2 wavelength. This is the basis for those old "CB" shops , pruning the coax for the best match (rather then the antenna)! At ODD multiples of a 1/4 wavelength. the coax, becomes a MATCHING Transformer (like stacking 2- 50 ohm antennas, you use 1/4 wavelength sections of 75 ohm coax) In this case, we are matching 2 -50 ohm loads to a 25 ohm source)-- Coax has a characteristic impedence that is constant along its length. as long as the Source Impedence = the Load Impedence. IF the source is DIFFERENT from the load impedence, or the Coax has a different impedence, from the source and/or load, however the source/coax/and load will show 1:1 SWR, AT the 1/2 wave points of the line, repeating EVERY 1/2 wavelength! However, as stated, ODD 1/4 wavelengths become a impedence XFMR. (the formula being : X Zo (1/4 wave) = the SQUARE ROOT of R1 x R2! Was well documented in an a old VHF'er article from the '60's! Ill post it (in text format, when I find it-- Jim Owen Duffy wrote: > On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:15:34 GMT, Jim - NN7K wrote: > > >> a coax for the "Best Match")! A way to Double >> Check for this, is to use a 1/4 wave (electrical) >> length of coax , OF the SAME impedance, in series >> with your feed line to the antenna. IF the SWR >> stays the same, Should have a match, BUT IF the >> SWR goes up, better check for match problems! >> As info, Jim NN7K > > Jim, can you explain what is going on here, why what happens happens. > > It has more to do with what is happening on the outside of the coax > than on the inside of the coax. > > Owen > -- Article: 229540 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 19:32:05 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Message-ID: Dave wrote: > > > Cecil Moore wrote: > >> Mike Coslo wrote: >> >>> I have yet to see an attempted debunking of global warming that is >>> not political in nature. >> >> >> >> May I ask exactly who those politicians were when global >> warming reversed itself 120k, 140k, 340k, and 440k years >> ago? > > > C'mon Cecil, you know the advocates of GW deny it is a natural phenomena. I don't know of a one who believes that. The earth has been warming and cooling for a very long time. Pretty much fact also. Some who believe that the earth was created in 4004 b.c.e might contest that. The question of whether the so-called greenhouse gases have an effect on the retention of heat in the atmosphere is just about as plain a fact as there is. There are laboratory experiments, and comparisons with other planets in our solar system. Without "greenhouse gases" we simply wouldn't exist. But the question is whether the amounts that we have introduced into the atmosphere will have any effect.Here is a link that lists known greenhouse gases: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPCC_list_of_greenhouse_gases Okay. Does our increase of 87 ppm from 1750 c.e. or the 1045 ppb increase in methane during the same time period have any effect? Or do human based sources have no effect, only natural sources Interestingly, if as Cecil alleges, when we hit ~280 ppmv, we trigger an ice age. Well, we passed that level some time ago. in 1998 we were at 365 ppmv. > Just wait until the next ice age, even a minor ice age, then they, the > GW advocates, will be demanding more CO2 in the atmosphere. :-) Considering that another ice age will mean the loss of a good part of humanity, that idea might have some merit. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229541 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: slow code:kook on parade Date: 4 Sep 2006 16:32:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1157412764.171850.119690@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: Slow Code wrote: > "LenAnderson@ieee.org" wrote in > news:1157387085.373625.293370@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > > > From: "an old friend" on Sun, Sep 3 2006 2:41 pm slow code:kook on parade Article: 229542 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: slow code:kook on parade Date: 4 Sep 2006 16:38:53 -0700 Message-ID: <1157413132.970194.50830@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Slow Code wrote: > slow code:kook on parade Article: 229543 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 19:42:12 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Message-ID: Cecil Moore wrote: > Dave wrote: > >> >> Cecil Moore wrote: >> >>> May I ask exactly who those politicians were when global >>> warming reversed itself 120k, 140k, 340k, and 440k years >>> ago? >> >> >> C'mon Cecil, you know the advocates of GW deny it is a natural phenomena. > > > The democrats/socialists/communists are virtually > always in denial. Awesome name calling, Cecil! Seeing as how you are now hurling insults, have you declared defeat? Shame on ya. - Mike - Article: 229544 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: slow code:kook on parade Date: 4 Sep 2006 16:46:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1157413585.679142.202980@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <44F90CEA.582E45A9@hotmail.com> Slow Code wrote: > "an old friend" wrote in > news:1157338236.194137.18080@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com: > > > > > Slow Code wrote: > >> "kb9rqz@hotmail.com" wrote in > >> news:1157251469.103713.112020@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com: > > > >> It is a war in ham radio. We're fighting to keep Markie and his lazy > >> friends from handing over the service to the CB'ers. > > > no Mr Code we are fighting to keep you and yours from destorying Ham > > radio > > > Improving a thing, isn't distroying it. you are not for iproving Ham radio indeed your proposal would kill Ham radio when 5 years >You're against improvement. nope I favor improvement you oppose it > If > you cared, you would try to make yourself better. I do on a daily basis for that matter slow code:kook on parade > > SC Article: 229545 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? Message-ID: <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 00:05:48 GMT On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 23:31:00 GMT, Jim - NN7K wrote: >Quite easily. Impedence matches repeat, every 1/2 > wavelength. This is the basis for those old "CB" >shops , pruning the coax for the best match >(rather then the antenna)! At ODD multiples of a >1/4 wavelength. the coax, becomes a MATCHING >Transformer (like stacking 2- 50 ohm antennas, >you use 1/4 wavelength sections of 75 ohm coax) >In this case, we are matching 2 -50 ohm loads to >a 25 ohm source)-- Coax has a characteristic >impedence that is constant along its length. >as long as the Source Impedence = the Load >Impedence. IF the source is DIFFERENT from the >load impedence, or the Coax has a different >impedence, from the source and/or load, however >the source/coax/and load will show 1:1 SWR, >AT the 1/2 wave points of the line, repeating If the SWR on a line is 1:1 at any point, it is 1:1 at ALL points on the line. If the SWR on a low loss line is close to 1:1 at any point, it is approximately the same at ALL points on the line. On practical lines at HF and above with practical loads, the SWR decreases smoothly from the load to the source because of line loss, the lower the loss, the lower the rate at which SWR falls as you approach the source. If lengthening the line increases the SWR at the tx, or decreases it by more than accounted for by the extra line loss, then something else is happening. Owen >EVERY 1/2 wavelength! However, as stated, ODD >1/4 wavelengths become a impedence XFMR. >(the formula being : X Zo (1/4 wave) = the >SQUARE ROOT of R1 x R2! Was well documented in >an a old VHF'er article from the '60's! >Ill post it (in text format, when I find it-- Jim > > >Owen Duffy wrote: >> On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:15:34 GMT, Jim - NN7K wrote: >> >> >>> a coax for the "Best Match")! A way to Double >>> Check for this, is to use a 1/4 wave (electrical) >>> length of coax , OF the SAME impedance, in series >>> with your feed line to the antenna. IF the SWR >>> stays the same, Should have a match, BUT IF the >>> SWR goes up, better check for match problems! >>> As info, Jim NN7K >> >> Jim, can you explain what is going on here, why what happens happens. >> >> It has more to do with what is happening on the outside of the coax >> than on the inside of the coax. >> >> Owen >> -- -- Article: 229546 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "an old friend" Subject: slow code:kook on parade Date: 4 Sep 2006 17:00:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1157414434.897561.223080@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <1156893698.495263.100150@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> Slow Code wrote: > "an old friend" wrote in > news:1157337057.630119.227160@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > >> They just want to be appliance operators Fred, they don't care if they > >> can't communicate. > > I could commute I prefer not to > > > Because you're dumb, or just lazy? > niether because I prefer to work smarter rather than harder slow code:kook on parade Article: 229547 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Bakb0ne" Subject: Re: slow code:kook on parade Date: 4 Sep 2006 17:21:13 -0700 Message-ID: <1157415673.339685.262290@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: an old friend wrote: > Slow Code wrote: > > "LenAnderson@ieee.org" wrote in > > news:1157387085.373625.293370@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > > > > > From: "an old friend" on Sun, Sep 3 2006 2:41 pm > > slow code:kook on parade Morse has no value in todays society... And I agree "slow code:kook on parade" Article: 229548 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 20:30:09 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Message-ID: Be careful regarding 1750 bce. That predates the industrial revolution by at least 100 years. This indicates that natural factors are at work. Petroleum products date from the 1880s. This indicates that natural factors are at work. Automobiles date from the early 1910s. This indicates that natural factors are at work. Deforestation dates from the mid 1950s. This indicates that natural factors are at work. The period of 1700 to 1750 is acknowledged as the end of the 'Little Ice Age', not the beginning of manmade [man contributed] GW. There are so many unknown contributors to the earth warming and cooling cycles that blaming CO2 and other 'greenhouse gases' for the major cause is just irresponsible. IMO, GW = K1*d(solar activity)/dt + K2*d(volcanic activity)/dt + K3*d(El Nino)/dt + K4*d(La Nina)/dt + K5*d(deforestation)/dt + K6*d(radio carbon decay)/dt + K7*d(many other factors)/dt + Kn*d(n)/dt ... What is known is that the earth warms and cools. Why? That is still open to discovery. /s/ DD PS: Most Christian Clergy of major denominations agree that the cosmos was formed between 15 and 20 billion years ago. The 4004 bce calculation is incorrect and is the result of poor biblical scholarship. /s/ DD Mike Coslo wrote: > Dave wrote: > >> >> >> Cecil Moore wrote: >> >>> Mike Coslo wrote: >>> >>>> I have yet to see an attempted debunking of global warming that is >>>> not political in nature. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> May I ask exactly who those politicians were when global >>> warming reversed itself 120k, 140k, 340k, and 440k years >>> ago? >> >> >> >> C'mon Cecil, you know the advocates of GW deny it is a natural phenomena. > > > I don't know of a one who believes that. > > The earth has been warming and cooling for a very long time. Pretty > much fact also. Some who believe that the earth was created in 4004 > b.c.e might contest that. > > The question of whether the so-called greenhouse gases have an > effect on the retention of heat in the atmosphere is just about as plain > a fact as there is. There are laboratory experiments, and comparisons > with other planets in our solar system. > > Without "greenhouse gases" we simply wouldn't exist. > > But the question is whether the amounts that we have introduced into > the atmosphere will have any effect.Here is a link that lists known > greenhouse gases: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPCC_list_of_greenhouse_gases > > Okay. Does our increase of 87 ppm from 1750 c.e. or the 1045 ppb > increase in methane during the same time period have any effect? Or do > human based sources have no effect, only natural sources > > Interestingly, if as Cecil alleges, when we hit ~280 ppmv, we trigger an > ice age. Well, we passed that level some time ago. in 1998 we were at > 365 ppmv. > > >> Just wait until the next ice age, even a minor ice age, then they, the >> GW advocates, will be demanding more CO2 in the atmosphere. :-) > > > Considering that another ice age will mean the loss of a good part of > humanity, that idea might have some merit. > > > > - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229549 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 20:31:23 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? References: Message-ID: The answer to the subject question is: NO! Bob D. wrote: > I'm about to put up a V2000 6m/2m/70cm antenna. I've used 9913 in the past > for 2m, but it's awfully stiff and expensive. I'm thinking of going with RG8 > or a variant of RG8. Are they all the same? I want to minimize loss of > course. Recommendations? > > BTW, what does the RG number signify anyway? The size? The construction? > Article: 229550 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Marco Licetti" Subject: FS: HP/AGILENT 432A PowerMeter (RF/Microwave), SENSOR INCLUDED, 10MHz - 40GHz or up dep. on sesnor. WORKING PERFECT Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 00:43:15 GMT HP/AGILENT 432A PowerMeter (RF/Microwave), SENSOR INCLUDED, 10MHz - 40GHz or up dep. on sesnor. WORKING PERFECT Warranty. Should goto 40GHz according to Agilent website, but maybe HIGHER depending on sensor. Fact we never used it above 26.5GHz at the time it was put to storage, only recently we started testing amplifiers above 26GHz, our new meter is at least 110GHz. Just check with Agilent website. Do NOT reply on Newsgroup, if email: remove "death2spammers" strings in my address (repeated twice). Price $69 with sensor, mere sensor CABLE alone could be $100+ and I am giving it to all for 70 dollars: powermeter itself, sensor, cable. Have NO time to wait for auction to end, we just need to sell and be done. I by the way moving on Sept30 myself, and need to unload some weights. PLEASE do check with Ebay listing first as I might revise it. Shipping from Amplitech, Inc., New York, USA Posted on Ebay, item# 330025215168. Goto www.ebay.com and enter "330025215168" (without quotation marks) into search window (or item#, etc.); BUY NOW OPTION is AVAILABLE, i.e. NO need to wait for Auction end ($799 or revised down). Description is there (on Ebay), copied down here for your convenience, BUT to see ALL-SIDES PICTURES/etc do check that Ebay listing. Best done via Ebay - SAFE for you/me (my feedback is 100% positive there & 10+ years on Newsgroups), if you're not into Ebay and unless a bid already placed, I can take it off and sell outside Ebay. Description copied here (see pictures on Ebay): ***** Concise description as you can GET DETAILED DESCRIPTION/SPECS/MANUAL at AGILENT website (www.agilent.com->search->enter 432A, power). People who buy Test Equipment are professionals/engineers - know already the specific model specs or can quickly locate. HP/Agilent 432A is Analog but widely used/known legacy RF/microwave powermeter. 1. WORKING PERFECT - warranty, was CALIBRATED several years ago but now expired so you MAY want to recalibrate. 2. INCLUDES SENSOR & CABLE: 486A, THERMISTOR MOUNT - 200 Ohm (?), WAVEGUIDE TYPE + CABLE i.e. COMPLETE SYSTEM READY FOR USE. PULLED FROM WORKING ENVIRONMENT at AMPLITECH, Inc. (www.amplitechinc.com), one of the best-known RF/Microwave companies - a spin off of Miteq, Inc. Used to test military amplifiers originally, then as a backup, and finally put to storage sas we upgraded to EPMseries Agilent powermeters. Docs/specs/manuals are at Agilent website, a simple meter comparing to dual-head/modern meters. If you see only info on meter itself and not sensor, the calibration factor/effective efficiency are printed on sensor body, NIST-traceable. Looks like a metal barrel waveguide port - I could add pictures but for such a cheap item I can only post one picture - meter itself (any extras would cost me money). Agilent website mentions: "automatic, self-balancing power meter for use with temperature compensated thermistor sensors" and something "10MHz - 40Ghz" (can be expanded with different sensor?). Reason to sell: We were fortunate to afford a company-wide upgrade program, e.g. in place of this, 436A and 437B powermeters we're now using dual-head $4000 Agilent EPM units, so 432A is up for sale. I sold 436A earlier - see my feedback list. Can be used as a backup for your Tech if you can only afford modern meters for your engineers, or as a primary meter for Ham/etc. Radio amateurs, space radioastronomy, or any application you may want a cheap WORKING Microwave meter for that can go to multioctave Gigahertz region. Could keep to myself but we now have excess powermeters and instead need money for Network Analyzer parts (i am also interested in HP 8350B plugins for 20GHz at least, 26.5GHz better) Article: 229551 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 21:04:15 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Message-ID: Dave wrote: > Be careful regarding 1750 bce. > > That predates the industrial revolution by at least 100 years. This > indicates that natural factors are at work. > > Petroleum products date from the 1880s. This indicates that natural > factors are at work. > > Automobiles date from the early 1910s. This indicates that natural > factors are at work. > > Deforestation dates from the mid 1950s. This indicates that natural > factors are at work. > > The period of 1700 to 1750 is acknowledged as the end of the 'Little Ice > Age', not the beginning of manmade [man contributed] GW. > > There are so many unknown contributors to the earth warming and cooling > cycles that blaming CO2 and other 'greenhouse gases' for the major cause > is just irresponsible. No it isn't - or at least look at your statement for a second. Greenhouse gases are not responsible for the majority of atmospheric heat retention. Water vapor is. And there isn't a lot we can do about that. You are redefining my argument. I am saying CO2 and other gases such as methane, which do indeed represent a portion of the heat retention, are present as a greater percentage that they were in the past. I'm also saying that the additions are such that an increase in the atmosphere's heat retention capacity should be seen. Nothing odd about that. It can be shown experimentally. Then the main thing I am saying is that if it isn't, then WHY isn't it? If we just say "we don't know", and can offer nothing except calling people who think that global warming might exist, and offer evidence, and our own evidence consists of insults and rhetoric - well that is what I consider irresponsible. > IMO, GW = K1*d(solar activity)/dt + K2*d(volcanic activity)/dt + K3*d(El > Nino)/dt + K4*d(La Nina)/dt + K5*d(deforestation)/dt + K6*d(radio carbon > decay)/dt + K7*d(many other factors)/dt + Kn*d(n)/dt ... > What is known is that the earth warms and cools. Why? That is still open > to discovery. Lots of reasons. Precession, Solar output, volcanic action, maybe a stray asteroid or two. CO2 Methane, albedo. > PS: Most Christian Clergy of major denominations agree that the cosmos > was formed between 15 and 20 billion years ago. The 4004 bce calculation > is incorrect and is the result of poor biblical scholarship. My bible in the hallway shelf says 4004 b.c. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229552 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 01:44:20 GMT Mike Coslo wrote: > Awesome name calling, Cecil! Seeing as how you are now hurling > insults, have you declared defeat? Shame on ya. The truth is not an insult except to someone who is denying the truth. Anyone who believes that my life belongs to him/her is on my $hit list. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229553 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 01:51:46 GMT Dave wrote: > PS: Most Christian Clergy of major denominations agree that the cosmos > was formed between 15 and 20 billion years ago. Most scientists say it was ~12.5 billion years ago. That assumes constant length seconds which is an illogical assumption. If the length of a second has changed drastically, 7000 years may be correct. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229554 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44FCDECD.9060100@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:19:57 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Cecil Moore wrote: > Dave wrote: > >> PS: Most Christian Clergy of major denominations agree that the cosmos >> was formed between 15 and 20 billion years ago. > > > Most scientists say it was ~12.5 billion years ago. > That assumes constant length seconds which is an > illogical assumption. If the length of a second has changed drastically, 7000 years may be correct. Possibly the most absurd thing I've read so far. A most disengenuous argument. Are we now going to abuse the theory of relativity to satisfy the convenient lie of creationism? Have we moved from Darwin to Einstein? Are Copernicus and Galileo next? How about Roger Bacon? (who?) Oh, wait, it's Cecil. I'm fished-in again. Article: 229555 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim - NN7K Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 02:28:41 GMT Owen Keep in mind that I'am (primarily) VHF/UHF op. You might find this interesting (- the drawings)! This from the VHF'er, Nov, 1964-- Jim ACID TEST FOR A FLAT TRANSMISSION LINE Loren Parks=20 K7AAD (BTW, Loren runs Parks Electronics, in=20 Portland, Or. and has given up ham radio long ago!) The mark of a beginner is blind faith in meters.=20 Most hams get over believing an "S" meter after a=20 few years, but very few get to the point of=20 doubting that SWR or power meter. You ought to try=20 hooking half a dozen SWR bridges and power meters=20 in series with your transmission line--all at the=20 same time. If the line is not pro=ADperly terminated=20 you'll probably get as many different readings as=20 you have meters. An SWR bridge or wattmeter can show zero reflected=20 "power" or nearly so on a badly mis-matched=20 transmission line. This is why the beginners=20 "prune" the transmission line to " get the SWR=20 down." Pruning can help you load into a badly=20 mismatched line but the seat of the trouble is in=20 the termination--the antenna. The proof of a properly terminated transmission=20 line is that changing its length has no effect on=20 transmitter loading or on an indicator in the line=20 ahead of the length that is changed. If your=20 bridge now shows little or no reflected power or=20 voltage, it may be that it is inserted at a null.=20 Therefore you have to move the null, if any, by=20 chang=ADing the distance from the meter to the load=20 (not the transmitter.) Inserting 1/4 wave=ADlength=20 (electrically) of coax will give a maximum change=20 in meter reading. Insert lengths as shown in the table below. Make=20 some allowance for the additional length of=20 fittings or adapters at 432 Mc. Dimensions are not=20 very critical. Added length of Original length of transmission line transmission line Transmitter SWR Bridge or Power Meter Changing the length of the line to the right of=20 the bridge or power meter should have no effect on=20 the meter reading, regardless of the quality of=20 the bridge or power meter. Plate current in the=20 transmitter should not be affected either. If=20 changing line length affects any meter reading,=20 the transmission line is not properly terminated=20 which means the load is not matched to the line.=20 The degree of mismatch will be indicated in a=20 rel=ADative manner by the amount of change in meter=20 readings. M Antenna 236" x .66 =3D 39" 4 144 Mc. 82" x .66 =3D 13.5" 4 220 Mc. 54" x .66 =3D 8.8" 4 432 Mc. 27.4" x .66 =3D 4.5" 4 50 Mc. It is possible that you will get a reflected=20 energy reading that is approximately the same when=20 you insert the quarter wave length line. This is=20 because you are shifting phase 90 degrees and=20 perhaps just moving to the other side of the=20 "hump" in the line. Try different lengths of line,=20 shorter or longer. Put most faith in whatever=20 readings make your line look the worst. You cannot=20 believe SWR values obtained from trans=ADmission=20 line type instruments (monimatch) in which the=20 line is an appreciable frac=ADtion of a wavelength.=20 At 6 & 2 this is not a problem, but at 432 it is. knurled lock-nut -p A commercial "line stretcher." This one telescopes=20 20 cm. while main=ADtaining a constant=20 characteristic impedance of 50 ohms. It is most=20 useful at 432 Mc. and above where 1/4 wavelength=20 is about 17 cm. in air. SWR bridges and power meters are very valuable=20 instruments, properly used. End. Also, found a article by the same, useing a 400 foot run of RG-58 U for a dummy load, terminated with couple 2 Watt 100 ohm resistors (truth be known, at 6 meters, and up you dont even need the resistors! The effect, tho is the same, on ANY freq, as long as the 1/4 (or the 1/2) wavelengths=20 apply! Jim NN7K Owen Duffy wrote: >=20 > If the SWR on a line is 1:1 at any point, it is 1:1 at ALL points on > the line. >=20 > If the SWR on a low loss line is close to 1:1 at any point, it is > approximately the same at ALL points on the line. >=20 > On practical lines at HF and above with practical loads, the SWR > decreases smoothly from the load to the source because of line loss, > the lower the loss, the lower the rate at which SWR falls as you > approach the source. >=20 > If lengthening the line increases the SWR at the tx, or decreases it > by more than accounted for by the extra line loss, then something else > is happening. >=20 > Owen > an a old VHF'er article from the '60's! >> Ill post it (in text format, when I find it-- Jim >> Article: 229556 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44FCE6E8.20802@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:54:32 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Dave wrote: > Be careful regarding 1750 bce. > > That predates the industrial revolution by at least 100 years. This > indicates that natural factors are at work. > > Petroleum products date from the 1880s. This indicates that natural > factors are at work. > > Automobiles date from the early 1910s. This indicates that natural > factors are at work. > > Deforestation dates from the mid 1950s. This indicates that natural > factors are at work. Several large regional deforestations have taken place over Man's history. Recall that Lebanon's flag is a cyprus tree...now nearly desert, Lebanon serves as dramatic evidence of deforestation during the Bronze and Iron ages. Deforestations occurred in Mayan lands around the time of Christ. The chief difference today is that deforestation occurs all around the globe more-or-less at once. > > The period of 1700 to 1750 is acknowledged as the end of the 'Little Ice > Age', Yes, and there was a warming period near the end of the Roman period...your point? > > There are so many unknown contributors to the earth warming and cooling > cycles that blaming CO2 and other 'greenhouse gases' for the major cause > is just irresponsible. Hogwash. The grand majority of scientists working on these issues do not refute manmade impacts on GW (excepting, of course, those receiving paychecks from industries primarily responsible for them.) Unknown factors will always exist, but scientific consensus has been already been achieved on GW. > > IMO, GW = K1*d(solar activity)/dt + K2*d(volcanic activity)/dt + K3*d(El > Nino)/dt + K4*d(La Nina)/dt + K5*d(deforestation)/dt + K6*d(radio carbon > decay)/dt + K7*d(many other factors)/dt + Kn*d(n)/dt ... > > What is known is that the earth warms and cools. Why? That is still open > to discovery. The argument for GW is no longer in dispute within the scientific community. Cyclicity of global temperature does not negate the argument that the current run of GW is something new and unprecedented. Right now, governments are already planning for projected effects. It's here, it's now, it's WOW. > > /s/ DD > > PS: Most Christian Clergy of major denominations agree that the cosmos > was formed between 15 and 20 billion years ago. The 4004 bce calculation > is incorrect and is the result of poor biblical scholarship. Ask any Baptist and you'll get the 4004 answer...the "one-second-used-to be-a-million-years" argument notwithstanding. Again, My understanding of the notion of GW is that human activity is now PERTURBING the cyclicity that already exists. Pre-existing cyclicity of global temperature cannot in itself refute the argument for the existence of GW as a "new" phenomenon. They're intertwined. > > /s/ DD > Article: 229557 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <44FCDECD.9060100@fuse.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 03:02:34 GMT jawod wrote: > If the length of a second has changed drastically, 7000 years may be > correct. > Possibly the most absurd thing I've read so far. A most disengenuous > argument. Not at all. We know the length of seconds change with velocity. We could easily calculate an initial velocity and a present velocity that would make the universe 7000 absolute years old. (absolute as opposed to relative) > Are we now going to abuse the theory of relativity to satisfy the > convenient lie of creationism? Could be, they are both correct. > Have we moved from Darwin to Einstein? Did you see the movie, "Inherit the Wind"? At the end of the movie, Clarence Darrow weighed the value of both Darwin and The Bible and tucked both under his arm. > Are Copernicus and Galileo next? Can you prove that the earth is not at a fixed point in space? -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229558 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <44FCE6E8.20802@fuse.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 03:09:34 GMT jawod wrote: > Recall that Lebanon's flag is a cyprus tree... Looks like a cedar tree to me. Lebanon's cedar trees are mentioned in The Bible. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229559 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: titexport@gmail.com Subject: Modular Design of Breakers Allows for More Compact Substations; Date: 4 Sep 2006 20:18:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1157426291.397330.143170@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> When one thinks of high technology today, those products involving microchips and computers tend to come most quickly to mind. But, according to Elias Romo, developing a more efficient transformer or producing an entirely new breaker design are equally valid and perhaps more enduring examples of high technology at work. Says Romo, "developing such equipment is certainly not easy. You need prototypes, testing laboratories and, of course, highly-qualified people." www.tcipower.com Article: 229560 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:21:56 -0500 From: Tom Ring Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> Message-ID: <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Richard Clark wrote: > > For our apocalyptic hugging crowd inside the beltway, there were no > ice ages that long ago. There was no "that long ago" in the first > place for an earth only 7000 years old. Of course, that could be the > standard plausible deniability of the neo-cannibals at work to escape > blame - Rove is trying to elevate the discussion by blaming Clinton > for those ice ages. > > 73's > Richard Clark, KB7QHC It was more like 4000 something according to people I am acquanted with that believe in those fairy tales. And I won't vote for either of your parties. Both are just as corrupt. Like you Richard, who vote for a yellow-dog-democrats, I will vote for anything that has breath that is Libertarian. tom K0TAR Article: 229561 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44FCED5E.30401@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 23:22:06 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <44FCE6E8.20802@fuse.net> Cecil Moore wrote: > jawod wrote: > >> Recall that Lebanon's flag is a cyprus tree... > > > Looks like a cedar tree to me. Lebanon's cedar > trees are mentioned in The Bible. You got me. Yes, I think it IS a Cedar tree, not a cyprus. Incidentally, I recall that the island of Cyprus is named for the element copper, heavily mined on the island and smelted (with the help of the CEDAR trees for the furnace). :) Article: 229562 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Bruce Wilson" Subject: G5RV trimmed for voice? Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 21:42:04 -0600 Message-ID: I was looking through the G5RV instructions including the original article, and it's clear the antenna, when it is 102 feet long, is tuned for the bottom of the bands. Anyone have any experience trimming one down to resonate in the mid part of the voice bands? -- Bruce Wilson KF7K http://science.uvsc.edu/wilson Article: 229563 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) Message-ID: References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 03:58:56 GMT On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 02:28:41 GMT, Jim - NN7K wrote: >Owen Thanks Jim. I will insert comments inline... >Keep in mind that I'am (primarily) VHF/UHF op. >You might find this interesting (- the drawings)! >This from the VHF'er, Nov, 1964-- Jim >ACID TEST FOR A FLAT TRANSMISSION LINE Loren Parks >K7AAD (BTW, Loren runs Parks Electronics, in >Portland, Or. and has given up ham radio long ago!) > > >The mark of a beginner is blind faith in meters. >Most hams get over believing an "S" meter after a >few years, but very few get to the point of >doubting that SWR or power meter. You ought to try >hooking half a dozen SWR bridges and power meters >in series with your transmission line--all at the >same time. If the line is not pro­perly terminated >you'll probably get as many different readings as >you have meters. The author is not stating what has happened, what he has observed, but an opinion on what he thinks may happen. Assuming that he is talking about the common reflectometer / directional wattmeter instruments that sample current and voltage in a very small region to determine SWR, that they are suited to the frequency and line, and they are of quality... The fact remains that on practical lines at HF and above with practical loads, the SWR decreases smoothly from the load to the source because of line loss, the lower the loss, the lower the rate at which SWR falls as you approach the source. Any difference between instruments for direct or indirect measurement of VSWR placed in a uniform practical line is accounted for by line loss and instrument error (eg its indication or disruption of the line). The line loss between adjacent meters in practical coaxial lines (which is where you are likely to be using an SWR meter) on practical loads is very low, and so quality instruments should read almost identically. To take an extreme example, using RG213 at 1296MHz, and two SWR meters spaced 0.3m (~1') apart, if the SWR on the line at the one nearest the source is 3:1, the SWR on the line 0.3m closer to the load is 3.1... you would probably not see the difference. If on actual test, two meters showed significant difference, there is instrument error in at least one of the instruments. ... lots of confused stuff clipped > >SWR bridges and power meters are very valuable >instruments, properly used. End. Prophetic! >Also, found a article by the same, useing a 400 > foot run of RG-58 U for a dummy load, terminated > with couple 2 Watt 100 ohm resistors (truth be >known, at 6 meters, and up you dont even need the Yes, the input SWR of a 400' o/c stub of RG58 is about 1.1 at 50MHz, and gets lower with increasing frequency. >resistors! The effect, tho is the same, on ANY >freq, as long as the 1/4 (or the 1/2) wavelengths >apply! Jim NN7K I don't really understand how the 1/4, 1/2 relate to the dummy load? Owen -- Article: 229564 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "K4YZ" Subject: Lennie Screws Up yet Again...Reminds Us Of Just How Arrogantly Stupid He Is. Date: 4 Sep 2006 21:36:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1157430984.429205.135010@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > Fred HaFrom: Fred Hambrecht on Sat, Sep 2 2006 6:02 pm > > >I extend fellowship to REAL hams, you no code idiots are not hams, simply > >CBers that have the ability to read at a third grade level. > > Tsk, tsk, Fred. Had you been able to read RRAP before, you'd > know I have no amateur license, only a commercial one. Lennie, Lennie, LENNIE! How SOON you FORGET! You let that license EXPIRE back in October 0f 2000 ! ! ! Or so you said!...Of course every Amateur Licensee except Morkie and Brain jumped on you for that...Knowing full well that GROLs do NOT "expire" until YOU expire. Of course it's YOU who is always chiding Amateurs for not knowing anything other THAN Amateur Radio, which is a pretty stupid claim...But then you ARE pretty stupid. And here you are spreading some more of that "stupid" around.... Silly Lennie...Tricks are for kids! Steve, K4YZ Article: 229565 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 21:51:10 -0700 From: "H. P. Friedrichs" Subject: Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna Message-ID: <1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest.com> I am interested in the origins and purpose of the "IRE (Institute of Radio Engineers) Standard Dummy Antenna," as used during the alignment of radio receivers. I first came across this circuit in some old Hallicrafter's documentation, which described the alignment of a particular radio. The "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" consists of four components--- a 200pf cap in series with a 20 uH inductor, which links the signal generator to the receiver's antenna input. A 400 pF cap in series with a 400 ohm resistor is connected in parallel with (shunts)the inductor. I gather that this circuit models a wire antenna of some type. Is this true? What is the import of the component values and how were they arrived at? I modeled the circuit in Spice and graphed the transfer and impedance curves but it is not entirely clear to me what benefit there is to using this circuit. I've also Googled this and found some references here and there, but nothing explains the "why" of it. Is there anyone who can shed light on this? 73 Pete AC7ZL hpf (at) gainbroadband (dot) com Article: 229566 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "ArtieFlonkmeister" References: <1156865444.617650.136140@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1156893698.495263.100150@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> <1156938506.811395.322980@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> <24pJg.12229$Qf.6259@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> <1157164222.192542.259610@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1157240391.318511.138610@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <84737$44fa2fbd$471d2636$25732@ALLTEL.NET> <1157255088.467885.265190@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1157430984.429205.135010@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Lennie Screws Up yet Again...Reminds Us Of Just How Arrogantly Stupid He Is. Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 00:59:56 -0400 Message-ID: I HAVE JUST FOUND A VIDEO OF THE ARCHTYPE OLD FART HAM RADIO OPERATOR. THIS IS THE *REAL DEAL* FOLKS !!! I MEAN IT - YOU HAVE GOT TO SEE THIS FOR YOURSELF..... HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAXEkJEw4KM THIS GUY IS THE EMBOLDENED ENCAPSULATION OF EVERY DIRTY STINKING HAM OP THAT I'VE EVER SEEN AT A HAMFEST. (I JUST WISH I HAD THE GUY IN THE VIDEO'S CALLSIGN - PROLLY >FROM 4 OR 5 LAND NO DOUBT........) "Enjoy! Ya've earned it! - (as we used to say on 14.313) "K4YZ" wrote in message news:1157430984.429205.135010@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: > > Fred HaFrom: Fred Hambrecht on Sat, Sep 2 2006 6:02 pm > > > > >I extend fellowship to REAL hams, you no code idiots are not hams, simply > > >CBers that have the ability to read at a third grade level. > > > > Tsk, tsk, Fred. Had you been able to read RRAP before, you'd > > know I have no amateur license, only a commercial one. > > Lennie, Lennie, LENNIE! > > How SOON you FORGET! > > You let that license EXPIRE back in October 0f 2000 ! ! ! > > Or so you said!...Of course every Amateur Licensee except Morkie > and Brain jumped on you for that...Knowing full well that GROLs do NOT > "expire" until YOU expire. > > Of course it's YOU who is always chiding Amateurs for not knowing > anything other THAN Amateur Radio, which is a pretty stupid claim...But > then you ARE pretty stupid. > > And here you are spreading some more of that "stupid" around.... > > Silly Lennie...Tricks are for kids! > > Steve, K4YZ > Article: 229567 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re:steve talks about geting his shit on other literaly Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 01:04:24 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1157164222.192542.259610@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <1157240391.318511.138610@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <84737$44fa2fbd$471d2636$25732@ALLTEL.NET> <1157255088.467885.265190@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1157430984.429205.135010@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On 4 Sep 2006 21:36:24 -0700, "K4YZ" wrote: > >LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote: >> Fred HaFrom: Fred Hambrecht on Sat, Sep 2 2006 6:02 pm >> >> >I extend fellowship to REAL hams, you no code idiots are not hams, simply >> >CBers that have the ability to read at a third grade level. >> >> Tsk, tsk, Fred. Had you been able to read RRAP before, you'd >> know I have no amateur license, only a commercial one. > > Lennie, Lennie, LENNIE! your words Steve"What it's like to lick my excrement off of another man's genitals then you try to deny they mean anything" http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229568 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jeffrey D Angus Subject: Re: Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna References: <1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest.com> <44FD06B4.20425CB6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 05:15:12 GMT Michael A. Terrell wrote: > "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote: > >>I am interested in the origins and purpose of the "IRE (Institute of >>Radio Engineers) Standard Dummy Antenna," as used during the alignment >>of radio receivers. > > Its to match the receiver to the generator. Or more specifically, it's to present a uniform high impedance >from the generator to the radio. At the time, with the exception of a few lab grade instruments, signal generator outputs were all over the map with regards to output impedance. The "dummy antenna" presented a fairly uniform, and high, impedance to the radio and kept from detuning the front end while doing an alignment while connected to a signal generator. Jeff -- RESTRICTED AREA. Anyone intruding shall immediately become subject to the jurisdiction of military law. Intruders will be subject to lethal force, without warning, and on sight. USE OF DEADLY FORCE IS AUTHORIZED under the Internal Security Act of 1950. Article: 229569 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:41:09 -0700 Message-ID: References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 03:58:56 GMT, Owen Duffy wrote: >If on actual test, two >meters showed significant difference, there is instrument error in at >least one of the instruments. Hi Owen, The same thing will happen if you put a SWR (or Power) meter between the two mismatched ends of a transmission line. In this case it is not instrument error, it is systematic (application of the instrument) error. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229570 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:55:52 -0700 Message-ID: References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:21:56 -0500, Tom Ring wrote: > Like you Richard, who vote for a yellow-dog-democrats, I will vote for >anything that has breath that is Libertarian. Hi Tom, You want to look at that sentence again and propose just what it means? You vote, like me, for yellow-dog-democrats? Or you (in contrast to me) vote for Libertarians who are like yellow-dog-democrats? Or you (a yellow-dog-democrat) vote for Libertarians? You seem to be politically ambivalent. ;-) Punctuation and grammar matters. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229571 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Message-ID: <_u9Lg.6795$yO7.345@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 07:16:10 GMT Cecil Moore wrote: > Mike Coslo wrote: > >> Awesome name calling, Cecil! Seeing as how you are now hurling >> insults, have you declared defeat? Shame on ya. > > > The truth is not an insult except to someone who > is denying the truth. Anyone who believes that > my life belongs to him/her is on my $hit list. Obviously, you're a running dog lacky of the fascistic, corporatist, military-industrial oligarchy. Otherwise, you wouldn't be trying to lull the masses into believing the poisonous fumes from your CO2-belching vehicles are harmless to the environment. What you need is a good re-education at a good re-education camp, Cecil. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 229572 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 07:20:56 GMT Tom Ring wrote: > Richard Clark wrote: > >> >> For our apocalyptic hugging crowd inside the beltway, there were no >> ice ages that long ago. There was no "that long ago" in the first >> place for an earth only 7000 years old. Of course, that could be the >> standard plausible deniability of the neo-cannibals at work to escape >> blame - Rove is trying to elevate the discussion by blaming Clinton >> for those ice ages. >> >> 73's >> Richard Clark, KB7QHC > > > It was more like 4000 something according to people I am acquanted with > that believe in those fairy tales. > > And I won't vote for either of your parties. Both are just as corrupt. > Like you Richard, who vote for a yellow-dog-democrats, I will vote for > anything that has breath that is Libertarian. > > tom > K0TAR Libertarians are just kinder, gentler Anarchists. They're more to be pitied than scorned. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH Article: 229573 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Tom Donaly" Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 07:24:41 GMT Richard Clark wrote: > On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:21:56 -0500, Tom Ring > wrote: > > >> Like you Richard, who vote for a yellow-dog-democrats, I will vote for >>anything that has breath that is Libertarian. > > > Hi Tom, > > You want to look at that sentence again and propose just what it > means? You vote, like me, for yellow-dog-democrats? Or you (in > contrast to me) vote for Libertarians who are like > yellow-dog-democrats? Or you (a yellow-dog-democrat) vote for > Libertarians? You seem to be politically ambivalent. ;-) > > Punctuation and grammar matters. > > 73's > Richard Clark, KB7QHC Richard, he's a Libertarian. You have to expect sentences like that from Libertarians. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH (P.S. Cecil is a Libertarian, too.) Article: 229574 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Alan Peake Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 18:15:17 +1000 Message-ID: <44FD3215.70504@killspam.internode.on.net> References: David wrote: > RF transmitter output has impedance of 50 ohms and is connected to > dipole with a feedpoint impedance of 50 ohms via feeder with > characteristic impedance of 50 ohms. System is perfectly matched. I > expect SWR meter to show perfect match of 1:1. > Yes. > Dipole has a standing wave on it. Ends of dipole are at high voltage. > Dipole is centre-fed with centre being high current point. Standing > wave means that a reflected wave exists. Wave is reflected from open > ends of dipole. What happens to the reflected wave? How does it > vanish at centre of dipole? Why does reflected wave not go along > feeder into transmitter output? There cannot be a reflected wave on > feeder because SWR is 1:1. > There is no standing wave on the antenna. The distribution patterns of voltage and current on a half-wave dipole shown in antenna books, is not a standing wave. They are the RMS values of voltage and current along the dipole. At the centre, the ratio of Vrms to Irms is 50 ohms. Alan Article: 229575 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Andrew Holme" Subject: Re: improve cellphone reception inside house? Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 10:42:31 +0100 Message-ID: References: "peter" wrote in message news:pc6Lg.4635$ub5.4159@trnddc07... > When I'm at home I get a weak cellphone signal. Walk outside and the > signal becomes strong. > > Is it possible to connect two external cellphone antenna together and put > one in the attic, the other inside my house to improve the situation? > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=passive+repeater http://www.google.com/search?q=passive+repeater Article: 229576 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Alan Peake Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 20:39:29 +1000 Message-ID: <44FD53E1.6040101@killspam.internode.on.net> References: David wrote: > RF transmitter output has impedance of 50 ohms and is connected to dipole > with a feedpoint impedance of 50 ohms via feeder with characteristic > impedance of 50 ohms. System is perfectly matched. I expect SWR meter to > show perfect match of 1:1. > > Dipole has a standing wave on it. Ends of dipole are at high voltage. Dipole > is centre-fed with centre being high current point. Standing wave means that > a reflected wave exists. Wave is reflected from open ends of dipole. What > happens to the reflected wave? How does it vanish at centre of dipole? Why > does reflected wave not go along feeder into transmitter output? There > cannot be a reflected wave on feeder because SWR is 1:1. Sorry about my last post - complete drivel - please ignore. Can't think what was going through my mind at the time. Alan Article: 229577 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Gary Tayman" References: <1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest.com> <44FD06B4.20425CB6@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:19:15 GMT "Jeffrey D Angus" wrote in message news:AJ7Lg.9549$Cs3.4981@tornado.socal.rr.com... > > Or more specifically, it's to present a uniform high impedance > from the generator to the radio. At the time, with the exception > of a few lab grade instruments, signal generator outputs were all > over the map with regards to output impedance. The "dummy antenna" > presented a fairly uniform, and high, impedance to the radio and > kept from detuning the front end while doing an alignment while > connected to a signal generator. > > Jeff > Ahhh, so for the very first time, I finally hear an answer to one of those things that I've scratched my head about for years! I've often wondered why the literature always says to stick a capacitor inline from the signal generator -- I figured if I had to do this all the time, then why didn't the signal generator maker put one in there? Turns out, usually they do, but it's probably not an impedance match. Still, for most radios I just stick the probe to the antenna and go to town. It's fine for the IF -- enough of it gets past the RF to give me a workable signal. Then for RF I use whatever frequency I need to check/adjust the LO. For final RF adjustments I plug in the antenna and tweak it up on a weak station. Again, I probably differ from most of you because I work mainly with car radios. I already have a pretty decent antenna at the bench -- some $10 special from Auto Zone -- that does a great job. On a conversion there are no RF adjustments; on a repair/rebuild, I can do every adjustment except one, the one which must be done inside the car anyway -- the antenna trimmer. However even this gets checked -- I've noticed that with my bench antenna, the trimmer usually adjusts toward the "high" end, with the screw fairly loose. So if the trimmer tweaks in this area I'm fine. If it tweaks "tight", or not at all, I'll adjust the slug as needed -- or troubleshoot. Actually it is rare that I ever have such a problem -- with one exception: the 58-60 T-Bird radios. Even these are just fine, usually, but I've had a number of them whose front ends are way off. I've spent many hours trying to figure out why, and come up with nothing. I've replaced RF caps, checked the range of trimmers, checked resistor tolerances, and basically gone over the circuit with a fine tooth comb. Everything checks perfect, but the alignment is out. So I adjust the tuning slug -- a pretty fair distance -- to bring it in line. I've had a couple that were so far off that I had to tinker with the others as well. It's really fun because those slugs are WAA-AAY up in there, and difficult to reach. You can't do it with a non-ferocious screwdriver, or even a ferocious one -- it's too tight. You have to reach the shaft with needle-nose. In any case, all this fun aside, I can tinker and bring it into line -- but I still wonder why I have to do it in the first place. I think my next step in this "investigation" is to spend time with the next 58-60 T-Bird I get for conversion. If it's a good radio, when I disassemble I'll measure the tuning slugs, trimmers, fixed coils, etc., and write them down for reference. -- Gary E. Tayman/Tayman Electrical Sound Solutions For Classic Cars http://www.taymanelectrical.com Article: 229578 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: wood@itd.nrl.navy.mil (J. B. Wood) Subject: Re: Female PL259? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 07:28:41 -0400 Message-ID: References: <951m0.hb5.19.1@news.alt.net> <97upv.685.17.1@news.alt.net> In article <97upv.685.17.1@news.alt.net>, "Curious" wrote: > Further Info: Pasternak's Catalog #2006C page 134 shows what you want. > Depending on whether you are using RG58 or RG8, and depending on whether > you want crimp connector ( requires special crimp tool) or clamp type, they > have it all. > > www.Pasternack.com or 866-727-8376 > > > Ed K7AAT > Hello, and I would like to point out (from experience at work) that Pasternack is a convenience store for bulk RF connectors and pre-made, connectorized RF cables - You will save time but you will pay big $$ (e.g. compared to Rat Shack or a Ham fest for a similar item) for it. They are prompt, however. Sincerely, and 73s from N4GGO, John Wood (Code 5550) e-mail: wood@itd.nrl.navy.mil Naval Research Laboratory 4555 Overlook Avenue, SW Washington, DC 20375-5337 Article: 229579 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Richard Fry" References: <44fc70ab_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 06:48:57 -0500 Message-ID: <44fd3218_2@newsfeed.slurp.net> "Owen Duffy" wrote >The mechanism is not "that the reflected wave must travel back to >the PA anode and will be absorbed there causing overheating". >Take an example of the 50 ohms load discussed, and an electrical half >wave of 70 ohm line connected to a transmitter designed for a 50 ohm >load. The transmitter behaves exactly as if that line were 50 ohms. >Though there is a reflected travelling wave on the line, it does not >travel back to the PA anode where it is absorbed and converted to >heat. ____________ Really, the mechanism is there -- only the unique circumstance you describe protects the PA from seeing reflected power in such cases. Other line lengths in this scenario could stress PA components beyond their ratings. And even if the PA saw no reflected power because of a fortunate length of transmission line connecting it to a mismatched antenna/load, that reflected power still exists in the transmission line, and may cause its failure. Manufacturers of the rigid coaxial line used in broadcast stations (e.g., Dielectric) require derating its maximum power rating inversely by the value of the SWR existing in it . A power derating factor related to SWR also applies to Andrew Heliax® and RG-type coax line. Deliberately setting up, or tolerating reflected power on a transmission line is not done without risk. RF Article: 229580 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Ken Subject: Re: Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna References: <1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest.com> <44FD06B4.20425CB6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 07:59:31 -0400 Maybe the slugs have lost some permeability. Which way do you have to tune, more or less inductance? Ken Gary Tayman wrote: > "Jeffrey D Angus" wrote in message > news:AJ7Lg.9549$Cs3.4981@tornado.socal.rr.com... > >>Or more specifically, it's to present a uniform high impedance >>from the generator to the radio. At the time, with the exception >>of a few lab grade instruments, signal generator outputs were all >>over the map with regards to output impedance. The "dummy antenna" >>presented a fairly uniform, and high, impedance to the radio and >>kept from detuning the front end while doing an alignment while >>connected to a signal generator. >> >>Jeff >> > > > Ahhh, so for the very first time, I finally hear an answer to one of those > things that I've scratched my head about for years! > > I've often wondered why the literature always says to stick a capacitor > inline from the signal generator -- I figured if I had to do this all the > time, then why didn't the signal generator maker put one in there? Turns > out, usually they do, but it's probably not an impedance match. Still, for > most radios I just stick the probe to the antenna and go to town. It's fine > for the IF -- enough of it gets past the RF to give me a workable signal. > Then for RF I use whatever frequency I need to check/adjust the LO. For > final RF adjustments I plug in the antenna and tweak it up on a weak > station. > > Again, I probably differ from most of you because I work mainly with car > radios. I already have a pretty decent antenna at the bench -- some $10 > special from Auto Zone -- that does a great job. On a conversion there are > no RF adjustments; on a repair/rebuild, I can do every adjustment except > one, the one which must be done inside the car anyway -- the antenna > trimmer. However even this gets checked -- I've noticed that with my bench > antenna, the trimmer usually adjusts toward the "high" end, with the screw > fairly loose. So if the trimmer tweaks in this area I'm fine. If it tweaks > "tight", or not at all, I'll adjust the slug as needed -- or troubleshoot. > > Actually it is rare that I ever have such a problem -- with one exception: > the 58-60 T-Bird radios. Even these are just fine, usually, but I've had a > number of them whose front ends are way off. I've spent many hours trying > to figure out why, and come up with nothing. I've replaced RF caps, checked > the range of trimmers, checked resistor tolerances, and basically gone over > the circuit with a fine tooth comb. Everything checks perfect, but the > alignment is out. So I adjust the tuning slug -- a pretty fair distance -- > to bring it in line. I've had a couple that were so far off that I had to > tinker with the others as well. It's really fun because those slugs are > WAA-AAY up in there, and difficult to reach. You can't do it with a > non-ferocious screwdriver, or even a ferocious one -- it's too tight. You > have to reach the shaft with needle-nose. In any case, all this fun aside, > I can tinker and bring it into line -- but I still wonder why I have to do > it in the first place. > > I think my next step in this "investigation" is to spend time with the next > 58-60 T-Bird I get for conversion. If it's a good radio, when I disassemble > I'll measure the tuning slugs, trimmers, fixed coils, etc., and write them > down for reference. > Article: 229581 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Hamateur Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 12:09:55 -0000 Message-ID: <12fqq8jg3tqdjdf@corp.supernews.com> References: Richard Clark wrote: > > On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:44:17 +0100, "David" wrote: > >What happens to the reflected wave? > > Hi David, > It is radiated. > > >How does it vanish at centre of dipole? > > It does not "vanish." > > >Why does reflected wave not go along feeder into transmitter output? > > Because you established there was a match at that port. > > 73's > Richard Clark, KB7QHC Awesome. I get it. Thanks. Article: 229582 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: David George Johnson Subject: Patent regulations Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 08:18:24 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1157315424.802359.127430@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Actually the document you are referring to is just one way to establish the earliest date of invention, which is all that the patent office is interested in. In other words, if someone can prove that they made the invention prior to the filing of your written document, then the earlier inventor gets priority. The patent office determines who is the first inventor by means of an "interference proceeding". The written document you refer to would be just one piece of evidence at such a proceeding, but could readily be overcome by any other convincing evidence of an even earlier date of invention by someone else. You can read all about this topic on the patent office web page: http://www.uspto.gov Regards Dave WB4JTT On 3 Sep 2006 13:30:24 -0700, "art" wrote: >Gentlemen, The regulations at the patent office used to accept a >declaration for a patent claim if the claiment produced a written >description of his invention which was also signed and dated by another >person who stated that he had read it and understood its content, this >document gave the claiment to claim rights over all those that follow >that disclosure. >I seemed to remember that the PTO changed things with respect to how >they will deal with future claims where applications would be printed >to the World when received. Did this have any affect with respect to >the presigned declaration alluded to above? >Any info would be appreciated especially if claims presented to the >patent office provides >seniority over pre dated signed claims that have yet to be forwarded to >the PTO >Regards >Art Article: 229583 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <_u9Lg.6795$yO7.345@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: <0yeLg.21184$kO3.9509@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:00:44 GMT Tom Donaly wrote: > Otherwise, you wouldn't be trying to lull > the masses into believing the poisonous fumes from your CO2-belching > vehicles are harmless to the environment. Didn't say they were harmless, Tom, and CO2 is not poisonous. I said that global warming has, so far, always corrected itself without the help of man. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229584 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? References: <44FD3215.70504@killspam.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <7IeLg.21185$kO3.11105@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:11:31 GMT Alan Peake wrote: > There is no standing wave on the antenna. The distribution patterns of > voltage and current on a half-wave dipole shown in antenna books, is not > a standing wave. They are the RMS values of voltage and current along > the dipole. At the centre, the ratio of Vrms to Irms is 50 ohms. From "Antennas" by Kraus & Marhefka: "A sinusoidal current distribution may be regarded as the standing wave produced by two uniform traveling waves of equal amplitude moving in opposite directions along the antenna." From "Antenna Theory" by Balanis: "Because of the standing wave pattern, it is also classified as a standing wave antenna" "The sinusoidal current distribution of long open-ended linear antennas is a standing wave constructed by two waves of equal amplitude and 180 deg phase difference at the open-end traveling in opposite directions along its length." Of course, a 1/2WL dipole is a standing wave antenna. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229585 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 09:25:23 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Message-ID: Tom Donaly wrote: SNIPPED > > > Richard, he's a Libertarian. You have to expect sentences like > that from Libertarians. > 73, > Tom Donaly, KA6RUH > (P.S. Cecil is a Libertarian, too.) Libertarian = Anarchy rules! Democratic = Tyranny of the majority rules! Republican = Strong private sector economy rules! Socialist = Elitist know what's best for you and me. Green Party = Nature rules, the hell with people. Conservationist = Dinosaur's rule. /s/ DD Article: 229586 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bill Turner Subject: Re: KE2QJ mobile matching network? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 07:04:47 -0700 Message-ID: References: ORIGINAL MESSAGE: On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 19:40:35 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >For those of us who don't have the 2004 ARRL Handbook, >could you describe the theory? If it is based on the >old wives' tale that the current through a loading coil >is constant, it is all wet. ------------ REPLY FOLLOWS ------------ No, this is not that type of circuit. This uses a simple vertical whip without any loading coil. At the base of the whip there is a variable coil and variable capacitor in parallel with each other and connected to ground. From the junction of the whip and coil/cap there is another capacitor which goes to the input of a 4:1 unun which steps up the resultant 12.5 ohm impedance to 50 ohms, which goes to the transceiver. For 3.5 MHz, the values in his example are 44 uH for the coil and 11.9 pH for the cap which feeds the unun. The value of the variable cap in parallel with the coil is not specified. He states that exact values of all components are highly dependent on coil Q. I see two major advantages to this network: 1. The whip itself is as simple as it can be; no loading coil at all. 2. The value of the coil at the base is smaller that a conventional loading coil would be. One drawback, although the author does not state it, is both capacitors must see a LOT of voltage, and vacuum variables would probably be necessary. At the 100 watt level, I'd guess the voltage there is on the order of 2-4 kV, possible more. If anyone is interested, email me at my qrz.com address and I'll send a screenshot of the circuit and the text of the article. -- Bill, W6WRT Article: 229587 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: G5RV trimmed for voice? References: Message-ID: <8MfLg.15486$%j7.2650@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:24:04 GMT Bruce Wilson wrote: > I was looking through the G5RV instructions including the original article, > and it's clear the antenna, when it is 102 feet long, is tuned for the > bottom of the bands. Anyone have any experience trimming one down to > resonate in the mid part of the voice bands? If you will download the free demo version of EZNEC from www.eznec.com, I will send you the .EZ model of a g5rv and you can experiment to your heart's content. The problem is if you shorten the series section to make the G5RV resonant on 3.8 MHz, it will tend to resonate on 40m at 2 x 3.8 = 7.6 MHz and on 20m at 4 x 3.8 = 15.2 MHz. You can always improve one band at the expense of others. You can improve 75m performance by installing a 1000 pf silver mica cap across the twinlead at the twinlead/coax junction but that cap needs to be removed for the other bands. When I ran a G5RV, I used a clip on capacitor. If you like 75m, try the cap. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229588 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? References: <44fc70ab_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fd3218_2@newsfeed.slurp.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:34:03 GMT Richard Fry wrote: > Really, the mechanism is there -- only the unique circumstance you > describe protects the PA from seeing reflected power in such cases. > Other line lengths in this scenario could stress PA components beyond > their ratings. Yes, the exposure of the PA to reflected power depends upon the phase of the reflected wave referenced to the phase of the source wave. SWR doesn't tell the whole story because phase is not reported by the SWR measurement. What is happening with 1/2WL of Z0=600 ohm feedline connected to a 50 ohm load on one end and a 50 ohm source on the other end is interference. Destructive interference toward the source causes constructive interference toward the load and the reflected energy at the source is re-directed back toward the load. What we want to avoid in our antenna systems is constructive interference toward the source. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229589 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:45:28 GMT Dave wrote: > Libertarian = Anarchy rules! From: http://www.lp.org/article_85.shtml What is a Libertarian? Libertarians believe that you have the right to live your life as you wish, without the government interfering -- as long as you don’t violate the rights of others. Politically, this means Libertarians favor rolling back the size and cost of government, and eliminating laws that stifle the economy and control people’s personal choices. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229590 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: KE2QJ mobile matching network? References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:57:15 GMT Bill Turner wrote: > 2. The value of the coil at the base is smaller that a conventional > loading coil would be. I'll send for the schematic but it sounds like he has a resonant circuit at the base. If so, he has increased the current through the coil considerably and losses in the coil are proportional to I^2. Reducing the size of the coil doesn't help if you increase the current through it. Sounds like he is forcing self-resonance in the coil by adding external capacitance. That cannot be a good thing for efficiency. I'd like to see his design up against a good screwdriver at a 75m mobile shootout. Consider that moving a center-loaded coil to the base of the antenna allows the coil to be made smaller but the overall losses in the system increase considerably. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229591 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Bob Subject: Re: improve cellphone reception inside house? References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 09:33:17 -0500 Hi Peter A passive repeater? Yes they work but it may not solve your problem. It's the kind of thing that may need some modelling etc first. I use to have one setup where the outside signal was "very strong" but the inside was "very weak". That worked well. I also (commercially) modelled for a tender a railway cutting/tunnel (improvment) that was about 3km from the base station. That bought the signal level in the cutting from about -107 to -85dBm. You may find a signal improvement only occurs with a few metres of the inside antenna. Like I said it needs some modelling. You will probably need a gain antenna (eg yagi) outside the house and not in the attic. There are also active repeaters azvailable for cellphone bands. They may or may not be legal for use in your country though. Cheers Bob VK2YQA peter wrote: > Is it possible to connect two external cellphone antenna together and put > one in the attic, the other inside my house to improve the situation? Article: 229592 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bill Turner Subject: Re: KE2QJ mobile matching network? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 08:12:18 -0700 Message-ID: References: ORIGINAL MESSAGE: On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:57:15 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >I'll send for the schematic but it sounds like he has >a resonant circuit at the base. If so, he has increased >the current through the coil considerably and losses >in the coil are proportional to I^2. Reducing the size >of the coil doesn't help if you increase the current >through it. Sounds like he is forcing self-resonance >in the coil by adding external capacitance. That >cannot be a good thing for efficiency. I'd like to >see his design up against a good screwdriver at a >75m mobile shootout. > >Consider that moving a center-loaded coil to the base >of the antenna allows the coil to be made smaller but >the overall losses in the system increase considerably. ------------ REPLY FOLLOWS ------------ I believe you are correct. This would be an expensive system to implement and perhaps not as efficient as a traditional system. It would be interesting to do a shootout. As he states, one of the main advantages is having a whip with no loading coils, even on 75 meters. -- Bill, W6WRT Article: 229593 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bill Turner Subject: Mobile antenna shootout results? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 08:14:15 -0700 Message-ID: Looking for a website with results of mobile antenna shootouts. Google returns lots of hits, but not what I'm looking for. Any help? Thanks, -- Bill, W6WRT Article: 229594 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mobile antenna shootout results? References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 15:31:53 GMT Bill Turner wrote: > Looking for a website with results of mobile antenna shootouts. Google > returns lots of hits, but not what I'm looking for. Any help? I've got a short summary of three 20th century CA shootouts on my web page at: www.w5dxp.com/shootout.htm What is it that you are looking for? -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229595 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Richard Fry" References: <44fc70ab_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fd3218_2@newsfeed.slurp.net> Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:07:41 -0500 Message-ID: <44fd6ebc_1@newsfeed.slurp.net> "Cecil Moore" > > What is happening with 1/2WL of Z0=600 ohm feedline > connected to a 50 ohm load on one end and a 50 ohm > source on the other end is interference. Destructive > interference toward the source causes constructive > interference toward the load and the reflected energy > at the source is re-directed back toward the load. > > What we want to avoid in our antenna systems is > constructive interference toward the source. ______________ Whether the source sees that reflected power or not, that reflected power is stressing the transmission line -- regardless of the electrical length of that line at the operating frequency. IOW, for these unique conditions the source may be unaffected by the reflected power in the line, but the line itself is still stressed by that power -- and possibly to the point of failure. RF Article: 229596 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Kaz Subject: Re: improve cellphone reception inside house? References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 16:45:43 GMT peter wrote: > When I'm at home I get a weak cellphone signal. Walk outside and the signal > becomes strong. > > Is it possible to connect two external cellphone antenna together and put > one in the attic, the other inside my house to improve the situation? > > Look online for a free or cheap old parabolic dish. Stand it against the wall inside and sit in front of it while using your cellphone. If you are able to point it to a tower and find the sweet spot, you can find some gain there. Am I crazy folks? --- NOTE ON REPLY: YANK THE DOT UCE TO GET ME BACK PRIVATELY Article: 229597 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Michael Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 12:53:45 -0400 Message-ID: References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Cecil Moore wrote: > Mike Coslo wrote: >> Awesome name calling, Cecil! Seeing as how you are now hurling >> insults, have you declared defeat? Shame on ya. > > The truth is not an insult except to someone who > is denying the truth. Anyone who believes that > my life belongs to him/her is on my $hit list. Okay Cecil. I apologize, for I have upset you, quite a bit it appears. I bear no ill will, and most certainly I don't want to enforce upon you my idea of the truth. I'll quit picking on you now.. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229598 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bill Turner Subject: Re: Mobile antenna shootout results? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 10:13:46 -0700 Message-ID: <30crf2tvdpcflp7vmhnqsplvpcjatatu1p@4ax.com> References: ORIGINAL MESSAGE: On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 15:31:53 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >I've got a short summary of three 20th century CA >shootouts on my web page at: www.w5dxp.com/shootout.htm >What is it that you are looking for? ------------ REPLY FOLLOWS ------------ Your website answers my question. I was looking for comparisons between the various antenna designs. Big coils and top hats win, knew that already, but nice to see the dB figures. Thanks. -- Bill, W6WRT Article: 229599 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jimmie D" References: <1141647965.814664.310580@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <9lbo02lvgg4bphbri9bjts585fjhe58kd4@4ax.com> <1141654142.207274.52860@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com> <1141701065.339363.89410@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> <1141782759.623687.59040@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: does doppler systems work only for unmodulated continous wave signals? Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:18:24 -0400 "Richard Clark" wrote in message news:p5vs0216rr1hviium9q2tq4lbp4frgfd9c@4ax.com... > On 7 Mar 2006 17:52:39 -0800, "mazerom" > wrote: > >>hello dave, >> >>same thought here..i wish to use 2.4ghz as my carrier and a doppler >>shift in the kHz range. >>any recommendation on good FM receivers in this frequency? >>thanks > > To give you 10% resolution will require it have its local oscillator > accurate (and stable) to one part in 100 Billion (of course, same goes > for the source). Hmm, maybe Bang & Olufson.... > > Laser interferometry would be simpler, and probably cheaper too. > > 73's > Richard Clark, KB7QHC Amazingly they used to accomplish this with vaccum tubes. Article: 229600 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Michael Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:21:04 -0400 Message-ID: References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <44FCE6E8.20802@fuse.net> jawod wrote: > Dave wrote: >> Be careful regarding 1750 bce. >> >> That predates the industrial revolution by at least 100 years. This >> indicates that natural factors are at work. >> >> Petroleum products date from the 1880s. This indicates that natural >> factors are at work. >> >> Automobiles date from the early 1910s. This indicates that natural >> factors are at work. >> >> Deforestation dates from the mid 1950s. This indicates that natural >> factors are at work. > > Several large regional deforestations have taken place over Man's > history. Recall that Lebanon's flag is a cyprus tree...now nearly > desert, Lebanon serves as dramatic evidence of deforestation during the > Bronze and Iron ages. Deforestations occurred in Mayan lands around the > time of Christ. In the late 1800's, most of Central PA was deforested. Either for lumber, or for the iron industry. I was told that you could go to the top of Tussey mountain south of my QTH, and not see a single tree in any direction. Since the people who were making the charcoal that was used to make the iron thought that planting new trees wasn't a cost effective option - if they indeed thought about it at all - they eventually ran out of fuel. We still are enjoying the effects. What has grown in the original lumbers place is nowhere near the quality that existed before. We mostly grow pulpwood now. Humans really *do* have an effect on the environment. > The chief difference today is that deforestation occurs all around the > globe more-or-less at once. >> >> The period of 1700 to 1750 is acknowledged as the end of the 'Little >> Ice Age', > > Yes, and there was a warming period near the end of the Roman > period...your point? >> >> There are so many unknown contributors to the earth warming and >> cooling cycles that blaming CO2 and other 'greenhouse gases' for the >> major cause is just irresponsible. > Hogwash. The grand majority of scientists working on these issues do > not refute manmade impacts on GW (excepting, of course, those receiving > paychecks from industries primarily responsible for them.) Unknown > factors will always exist, but scientific consensus has been already > been achieved on GW. >> >> IMO, GW = K1*d(solar activity)/dt + K2*d(volcanic activity)/dt + >> K3*d(El Nino)/dt + K4*d(La Nina)/dt + K5*d(deforestation)/dt + >> K6*d(radio carbon decay)/dt + K7*d(many other factors)/dt + Kn*d(n)/dt >> ... >> >> What is known is that the earth warms and cools. Why? That is still >> open to discovery. > The argument for GW is no longer in dispute within the scientific > community. Cyclicity of global temperature does not negate the argument > that the current run of GW is something new and unprecedented. Right > now, governments are already planning for projected effects. > It's here, it's now, it's WOW. >> PS: Most Christian Clergy of major denominations agree that the cosmos >> was formed between 15 and 20 billion years ago. The 4004 bce >> calculation is incorrect and is the result of poor biblical scholarship. > > Ask any Baptist and you'll get the 4004 answer...the "one-second-used-to > be-a-million-years" argument notwithstanding. Sometimes ya gotta be pretty creative to be always right! My Grandparents were Baptists, and they were firm believers in that date. They also believed in biblical support for slavery for that matter. 8^0 Who's gonna tell them they are wrong? > Again, > My understanding of the notion of GW is that human activity is now > PERTURBING the cyclicity that already exists. Pre-existing cyclicity of > global temperature cannot in itself refute the argument for the > existence of GW as a "new" phenomenon. They're intertwined. That is pretty much correct. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA Article: 229601 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mobile antenna shootout results? References: <30crf2tvdpcflp7vmhnqsplvpcjatatu1p@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 18:06:00 GMT Bill Turner wrote: > Your website answers my question. I was looking for comparisons > between the various antenna designs. Big coils and top hats win, knew > that already, but nice to see the dB figures. Big center-loaded coils with Big top hats on Big vehicles win. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229602 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <44FCE6E8.20802@fuse.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 18:09:30 GMT Michael Coslo wrote: > In the late 1800's, most of Central PA was deforested. Either for > lumber, or for the iron industry. I was told that you could go to the > top of Tussey mountain south of my QTH, and not see a single tree in any > direction. Since the people who were making the charcoal that was used > to make the iron thought that planting new trees wasn't a cost effective > option - if they indeed thought about it at all - they eventually ran > out of fuel. Some sea-going Pacific islanders used up all their trees and then couldn't build any boats. :-( -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229603 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Frank Dresser" References: <1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest.com> Subject: Re: Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 18:11:25 GMT "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote in message news:1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest.com... > I am interested in the origins and purpose of the "IRE (Institute of > Radio Engineers) Standard Dummy Antenna," as used during the alignment > of radio receivers. > > I first came across this circuit in some old Hallicrafter's > documentation, which described the alignment of a particular radio. The > "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" consists of four components--- a 200pf cap > in series with a 20 uH inductor, which links the signal generator to the > receiver's antenna input. A 400 pF cap in series with a 400 ohm resistor > is connected in parallel with (shunts)the inductor. > > I gather that this circuit models a wire antenna of some type. Is this > true? What is the import of the component values and how were they > arrived at? I modeled the circuit in Spice and graphed the transfer and > impedance curves but it is not entirely clear to me what benefit there > is to using this circuit. > > I've also Googled this and found some references here and there, but > nothing explains the "why" of it. > > Is there anyone who can shed light on this? > > 73 > Pete > AC7ZL Yes, the dummy antenna models a wire resonant at 2.something Mc. I suppose that was taken to be more or less typical of the receiver antennas of the 30s. The dummy antenna's most important use is as a standardized load for measuring receiver sensitivity. Terman's Radio Engineer's Handbook has a few paragraphs on this. If you're just adjusting the RF coils, peaking them up on the antenna normally used would be as good or better. Any sort of loose coupling between the generator and RF coils will get you in the ballpark with most radios. Frank Dresser Article: 229604 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <0lhhf2l54733esncnjcgdc769gn35i2r7k@4ax.com> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 18:13:54 GMT Michael Coslo wrote: > Okay Cecil. I apologize, for I have upset you, quite a bit it > appears. You haven't upset me, Mike. Hillary Clinton, Fidel Castro, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad upset me because they believe my life belongs to the state. You don't believe that, do you? -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229605 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred Hambrecht" References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <_u9Lg.6795$yO7.345@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <0yeLg.21184$kO3.9509@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:16:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1c8bc$44fdbf43$97d56bfc$18231@ALLTEL.NET> The "sky is falling folks" also fail to take into account the nutation of the earth that causes the earth to be tilted towards the sun a bit more... Kinda like the difference between winter and summer tilt. It takes one hell of an ego to think that puny man can affect the earths climate. Notice those that are the loudest voices live packed atop one an other, smelling bus fumes in big cities. They think the rest of the world is exactly like there limited universe. I still await an explanation of how freon, that is heavier than air, manages to make it to the South pole and finds the magical propert to climb to the ionisphere and eat ozone. But as always, there is no money in truth, nor can it stop the evil industrial military complex... "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:0yeLg.21184$kO3.9509@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com... > Tom Donaly wrote: >> Otherwise, you wouldn't be trying to lull the masses into believing the >> poisonous fumes from your CO2-belching vehicles are harmless to the >> environment. > > Didn't say they were harmless, Tom, and CO2 is not poisonous. > I said that global warming has, so far, always corrected itself > without the help of man. > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229606 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred Hambrecht" References: Subject: Re: G5RV trimmed for voice? Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:38:06 -0400 Message-ID: <6f3a5$44fdbf43$97d56bfc$18231@ALLTEL.NET> The G5RV requires a tuner, this obviates trimming the antenna for any portion of a band. If you look at the total antenna system (feed line length and antenna length) you will find that shorting the antenna and leaving the feedline length alone will result in not being able to tune the high end of the band on 75 meters using most commercially available tuners. If you plot all frequencies betwee 3.5 and 30 Mc you will note a large hole just above 4 Mc where no practical tuner can create a match. "Bruce Wilson" wrote in message news:t8SdnUpQuZk-b2HZnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com... >I was looking through the G5RV instructions including the original article, >and it's clear the antenna, when it is 102 feet long, is tuned for the >bottom of the bands. Anyone have any experience trimming one down to >resonate in the mid part of the voice bands? > > -- > Bruce Wilson KF7K > http://science.uvsc.edu/wilson > Article: 229607 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:22:50 -0500 From: jbyrns@rcn.com (John Byrns) Subject: Re: Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna Message-ID: References: <1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest.com> <44FD06B4.20425CB6@earthlink.net> In article , jangus@socal.rr.com wrote: > Michael A. Terrell wrote: > > "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote: > > > >>I am interested in the origins and purpose of the "IRE (Institute of > >>Radio Engineers) Standard Dummy Antenna," as used during the alignment > >>of radio receivers. > > > > Its to match the receiver to the generator. > > Or more specifically, it's to present a uniform high impedance > from the generator to the radio. At the time, with the exception > of a few lab grade instruments, signal generator outputs were all > over the map with regards to output impedance. The "dummy antenna" > presented a fairly uniform, and high, impedance to the radio and > kept from detuning the front end while doing an alignment while > connected to a signal generator. This doesn't sound right, why would it be desirable "to present a uniform high impedance from the generator to the radio"? The impedance of the "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" is not exactly what I would call "high" especially on some of the short wave bands, exactly what is a high impedance in this context? It was my understanding that the purpose of the "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" was to provide a standard antenna to use for making performance measurements, as well as for alignment at the factory and on the service bench. As to the exact design of the of the "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna", I understood that it was meant to represent the impedance characteristics a typical antenna that might be used by a radio set owner. This topic has been discussed here before and I seem to vaguely remember that someone may have even dug up the exact nature of the antenna the "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" was designed to simulate. IIRC if you are only doing MW broadcast band alignments a single capacitor will provide a very good approximation of the "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" across the MW broadcast band. The coil, resistor and second capacitor are there mainly to provide the desired impedance on the short wave bands where the prototype antenna has resonant effects There are at least two problems that the "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" solves, the first being standardized measurements for obtaining performance specifications, as it is possible for a manufacturer to "improve" his products specifications by using his own specially designed "Dummy Antenna". The second problem is how to align sets in the factory, or on the service bench, when the final users actual antenna system is not available. The problem is that the alignment of the antenna stage of a radio is greatly affected by the impedance of the actual antenna that is used with the radio. The "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" provides an approximation of what was assumed to be a typical consumer antenna. Of course what you really want to do is align the set with the actual antenna attached that it is used with. Regards, John Byrns Surf my web pages at, http://users.rcn.com/jbyrns/ Article: 229608 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Penguin" Subject: Re: REG EDWARDS. CHEERS! Date: 5 Sep 2006 11:35:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1157481334.749628.91710@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1157040328.531086.156050@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> Many thanks Art, Dad has always meant a lot to me. I am now finding out just what he meant to so many others. I hurt now but I am thankful for the memories. Jean Article: 229609 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:38:44 -0700 Message-ID: <8nfrf29pm52kvrf9qicp3sei5muhifk4ac@4ax.com> References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 07:24:41 GMT, "Tom Donaly" wrote: >Richard, he's a Libertarian. You have to expect sentences like >that from Libertarians. >73, >Tom Donaly, KA6RUH >(P.S. Cecil is a Libertarian, too.) Hi Tom, I've probably voted for more Libertarians on one ballot than either of them in their lives. We need more genetic diversity in the political gene pool. Problem is those parties don't work nearly hard enough to build a grass-roots. Umm, I should ammend that and say they don't work at all to do it. Third parties are invariably so self-centered that they want to start at the top (notably Lyndon Larouche). Unfortunately, courtesy of W we now have an example of how that turns out when the most left wing fascist elements put their man in at the top, and the right wing has voted in politburo lock-step to advanced the party planks of Leon Trotsky. All Larouche needs to learn is how to haul down the flag, and start waving bacon. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229610 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Mobile antenna shootout results? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:39:39 -0700 Message-ID: <12frh3ek1vofgc7@corp.supernews.com> References: <30crf2tvdpcflp7vmhnqsplvpcjatatu1p@4ax.com> Bill Turner wrote: > ORIGINAL MESSAGE: > > On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 15:31:53 GMT, Cecil Moore > wrote: > >> I've got a short summary of three 20th century CA >> shootouts on my web page at: www.w5dxp.com/shootout.htm >> What is it that you are looking for? > > ------------ REPLY FOLLOWS ------------ > > Your website answers my question. I was looking for comparisons > between the various antenna designs. Big coils and top hats win, knew > that already, but nice to see the dB figures. I don't see any information at that web site about the type of vehicle. Since the vehicle radiates an amount comparable to the antenna, it can have a profound effect on the overall field strength. Were all those antennas mounted on the same type of vehicle? Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 229611 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:59:49 -0700 Message-ID: References: <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <_u9Lg.6795$yO7.345@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <0yeLg.21184$kO3.9509@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <1c8bc$44fdbf43$97d56bfc$18231@ALLTEL.NET> On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:16:41 -0400, "Fred Hambrecht" wrote: >I still await an explanation of how freon, that is heavier than air, manages >to make it to the South pole and finds the magical propert to climb to the >ionisphere and eat ozone. Hi Fred, Hmmm, water is heavier than air. How does it manage? Even clouds are heavier than air. Rain comes from asteroids, comets, and meteors? Dust is heavier than air, as is smoke that comes from China and lands here in Seattle. They all rise from the same mechanism - sunlight. Heat generates convection currents. Currents raise pollution that traps heat. More heat generates more convection currents. More currents raise more pollution. Arguably "more" is by slight degrees, but as any capitalist knows, compound interest is where the money (pollution) is, and most technicians have had experience with Thermal Runaway. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229612 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Bob Subject: Re: improve cellphone reception inside house? References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:33:47 -0500 No not crazy.. You would certainly get gain but the question you have to ask is whether it is enough to overcome through wall etc losses. You also have to keep in mind that the signal you are using might be via reflection rather than direct. ie the direction you point may also need to be played with. It would be a great talking point for the occasional visitors too! Cheers Bob Kaz wrote: > Look online for a free or cheap old parabolic dish. Stand it against > the wall inside and sit in front of it while using your cellphone. If > you are able to point it to a tower and find the sweet spot, you can > find some gain there. > > Am I crazy folks? Article: 229613 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: nm5k@wt.net Subject: Re: 20m "ringo" Date: 5 Sep 2006 12:07:18 -0700 Message-ID: <1157483238.281592.20980@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: Richard Clark wrote: > On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:23:37 -0400, "Jimmie D" > wrote: > > >I heard once upon a time that the Ringo utilizes > >the mast as part of the radiator. > > Hi Jimmie, > > What was meant was that the mast inappropriately became part of the > radiator due to the design of the Ringo (which has had a reputation > for being a dummy load). The problem with half-wave designs is they > are high Z. Being high Z they are difficult to choke. Being > difficult to choke, they appropriate masts, supports, feed lines, as > additional radiation surfaces. When you add these lengths to the > radiator (and they are co-linear) then your radiation lobes begin to > climb into the sky (no one there to hear you) and the antenna becomes > deaf and dumb. It's probably more critical on VHF/UHF, but on the HF bands I never had any trouble with ringos and decoupling problems overly skewing the pattern. I've used a few with no decoupling at all, and they worked fine. But I'm of the opinion that the "gamma loop" type feed helps decouple the feedline a bit better than some other methods of feeding. I tried adding a decoupling section to one I used on 10m a few years ago, and it did help, but not in a huge amount. I found the antennas pretty easy to choke by using a 1/4 WL section of coax, and then 4 radials. Much the same as used on the "ringo ranger" antennas. Anyway, I've never seen a case on HF where I thought a ringo acted like a dummy load. I imagine it's possible on VHF though, if precautions aren't taken. I've used lots of them on 10m at various heights. Always worked pretty well. And I never noticed an overly hot feedline. The only times I had horrible results with a half wave was a time years ago when I tried to make a center fed job, using peeled back coax braid as part of the antenna. The decoupling from the line was horrible on that thing. That was on VHF though where the problem shows up more. MK Article: 229614 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: nm5k@wt.net Subject: Re: 20m "ringo" Date: 5 Sep 2006 12:07:21 -0700 Message-ID: <1157483240.942297.203210@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: Richard Clark wrote: > On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:23:37 -0400, "Jimmie D" > wrote: > > >I heard once upon a time that the Ringo utilizes > >the mast as part of the radiator. > > Hi Jimmie, > > What was meant was that the mast inappropriately became part of the > radiator due to the design of the Ringo (which has had a reputation > for being a dummy load). The problem with half-wave designs is they > are high Z. Being high Z they are difficult to choke. Being > difficult to choke, they appropriate masts, supports, feed lines, as > additional radiation surfaces. When you add these lengths to the > radiator (and they are co-linear) then your radiation lobes begin to > climb into the sky (no one there to hear you) and the antenna becomes > deaf and dumb. It's probably more critical on VHF/UHF, but on the HF bands I never had any trouble with ringos and decoupling problems overly skewing the pattern. I've used a few with no decoupling at all, and they worked fine. But I'm of the opinion that the "gamma loop" type feed helps decouple the feedline a bit better than some other methods of feeding. I tried adding a decoupling section to one I used on 10m a few years ago, and it did help, but not in a huge amount. I found the antennas pretty easy to choke by using a 1/4 WL section of coax, and then 4 radials. Much the same as used on the "ringo ranger" antennas. Anyway, I've never seen a case on HF where I thought a ringo acted like a dummy load. I imagine it's possible on VHF though, if precautions aren't taken. I've used lots of them on 10m at various heights. Always worked pretty well. And I never noticed an overly hot feedline. The only times I had horrible results with a half wave was a time years ago when I tried to make a center fed job, using peeled back coax braid as part of the antenna. The decoupling from the line was horrible on that thing. That was on VHF though where the problem shows up more. MK Article: 229615 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim - NN7K Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:12:38 GMT Owen- see my comments below >> The mark of a beginner is blind faith in meters.=20 >> Most hams get over believing an "S" meter after a=20 >> few years, but very few get to the point of=20 >> doubting that SWR or power meter. You ought to try=20 >> hooking half a dozen SWR bridges and power meters=20 >> in series with your transmission line--all at the=20 >> same time. If the line is not pro=ADperly terminated=20 >> you'll probably get as many different readings as=20 >> you have meters. >=20 > The author is not stating what has happened, what he has observed, but > an opinion on what he thinks may happen. What happens is IN a HIGH SWR Mis-match, is that the SWR (true) can only be measured at the load end. The reflected wave (Say infinity:1 is NOT a=20 constant, over the entire length of your coax, but will take on the sinusoidial of the wavelength for voltage (or current). Obviously, the reflected wave repeats the voltage, every 1/2 wavelength (- coax loss's), going from a 1:1 match, to a=20 infinity to 1 mis-match, every 1/4 wave length and, then back to a 1:1 match,the next 1/4 wave. If you were to graph this out for 1 cycle, you=20 would see a start at 0 volts, raiseing to maximum=20 volts, then dropping to 0 volts, and then to Maximum Negative volts.This repeats all the way >from the source to the load! A perfectly matched coax, on the other hand will have the same voltage measured , no matter the length of the line (again ignoreing the line loss's). (straight line graph, not a sin wave). >=20 > Assuming that he is talking about the common reflectometer / > directional wattmeter instruments that sample current and voltage in a > very small region to determine SWR, that they are suited to the > frequency and line, and they are of quality... >=20 > The fact remains that on practical lines at HF and above with > practical loads, the SWR decreases smoothly from the load to the > source because of line loss, the lower the loss, the lower the rate at > which SWR falls as you approach the source. This is academic, as the True VSWR still exists at the load. If it is 3:1, at the load, but you=20 measure 1.5/1 at your rig, the difference is because of line loss, NOT that the 3:1 swr has been corrected! Worse, (usually on short coax runs with a bum load, is the effect, that you have MORE POWER reflected, than was applied to the coax (an impossible situation)! >=20 > Any difference between instruments for direct or indirect measurement > of VSWR placed in a uniform practical line is accounted for by line > loss and instrument error (eg its indication or disruption of the > line). The line loss between adjacent meters in practical coaxial > lines (which is where you are likely to be using an SWR meter) on > practical loads is very low, and so quality instruments should read > almost identically. >=20 > To take an extreme example, using RG213 at 1296MHz, and two SWR meters > spaced 0.3m (~1') apart, if the SWR on the line at the one nearest the > source is 3:1, the SWR on the line 0.3m closer to the load is 3.1... > you would probably not see the difference. If on actual test, two > meters showed significant difference, there is instrument error in at > least one of the instruments. Keep in mind, that WHEN a swr exists, the sin wave=20 effect also exists irregardless of the freq you=20 are on. and also, IF you measure at a null point where the forward power wave voltage cancells the reflected voltage (for 0 volts), the introduction of a 1/4 wave length (electrical), will force your meter to the voltage MAXIMUM ! 'corse, the best place to measure a mismatch is at the load,but try it sometime! Try about 13-1/2 inch long piece of coax, on 2 meters added to your mismatched load, and then remeasure the swr- you will see what Im talking about! >> SWR bridges and power meters are very valuable=20 >> instruments, properly used. End. >=20 > Prophetic! >=20 >> Also, found a article by the same, useing a 400 >> foot run of RG-58 U for a dummy load, terminated >> with couple 2 Watt 100 ohm resistors (truth be >> known, at 6 meters, and up you dont even need the >=20 > Yes, the input SWR of a 400' o/c stub of RG58 is about 1.1 at 50MHz, > and gets lower with increasing frequency. >=20 Only to say this why your swr APPEARS lower (coax=20 loss) but that doesnt effect the REAL swr of the load!=20 With the 400 foot of coax, the losses are so high, you wont even see any reflected at the source end- but at the load end, you will have infinity :1 SWR! Jim NN7K Article: 229616 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred Hambrecht" References: <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <_u9Lg.6795$yO7.345@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <0yeLg.21184$kO3.9509@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <1c8bc$44fdbf43$97d56bfc$18231@ALLTEL.NET> Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 15:18:42 -0400 Message-ID: <710f3$44fdd18b$471f5e25$25853@ALLTEL.NET> Damn Richard, I totally forgot about all the heat rising at the South pole. Thank you ever so much for correcting my ignorance... I should know better than to belive that right wing publishing company, of the running dog capitalists, the New York Times. Their Discovery channel that went to great lengths to explain why there were no clouds and rarely any snow at the south pole. Let me give you an easier one, how did the freon get across the doldrums? More magical properties? History will note the second dark ages as the period when academics was corrupeted by money and politics of the left. We on the otherhand are blessed to live during this era of junk science. "Richard Clark" wrote in message news:brhrf2d7694ksn04fs1dsluqh7fqllmqp9@4ax.com... > On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:16:41 -0400, "Fred Hambrecht" > wrote: > >>I still await an explanation of how freon, that is heavier than air, >>manages >>to make it to the South pole and finds the magical propert to climb to the >>ionisphere and eat ozone. > > Hi Fred, > > Hmmm, water is heavier than air. How does it manage? Even clouds are > heavier than air. Rain comes from asteroids, comets, and meteors? > Dust is heavier than air, as is smoke that comes from China and lands > here in Seattle. > > They all rise from the same mechanism - sunlight. Heat generates > convection currents. Currents raise pollution that traps heat. More > heat generates more convection currents. More currents raise more > pollution. > > Arguably "more" is by slight degrees, but as any capitalist knows, > compound interest is where the money (pollution) is, and most > technicians have had experience with Thermal Runaway. > > 73's > Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229617 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Mobile antenna shootout results? References: <30crf2tvdpcflp7vmhnqsplvpcjatatu1p@4ax.com> <12frh3ek1vofgc7@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:48:46 GMT Roy Lewallen wrote: > I don't see any information at that web site about the type of vehicle. > Since the vehicle radiates an amount comparable to the antenna, it can > have a profound effect on the overall field strength. Were all those > antennas mounted on the same type of vehicle? Those are averages, Roy, not associated with any particular vehicle. The average screwdriver beats the average hamstick on 75m. Using similar antennas, the larger vehicles (GMC pickups) usually beat the smaller vehicles (Honda Civics). -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229618 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? References: <44fc70ab_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fd3218_2@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fd6ebc_1@newsfeed.slurp.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:52:07 GMT Richard Fry wrote: > Whether the source sees that reflected power or not, that reflected > power is stressing the transmission line -- regardless of the electrical > length of that line at the operating frequency. Didn't mean to imply that I was disagreeing with you in any way. Given the forward and reflected power readings for any particular line, the stresses can be calculated. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229619 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:14:57 -0700 Message-ID: <34lrf29jfjnb6fqlrmhr81t6qstkbmog8s@4ax.com> References: <_u9Lg.6795$yO7.345@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <0yeLg.21184$kO3.9509@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <1c8bc$44fdbf43$97d56bfc$18231@ALLTEL.NET> <710f3$44fdd18b$471f5e25$25853@ALLTEL.NET> On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 15:18:42 -0400, "Fred Hambrecht" wrote: >Damn Richard, I totally forgot about all the heat rising at the South pole. >Thank you ever so much for correcting my ignorance... Hi Fred, You thought heat falls over the South Pole? Curious, but correction was necessary, obviously. >I should know better than to belive that right wing publishing company, of >the running dog capitalists, the New York Times. Ah, more correction is necessary I see. >Their Discovery channel that went to great lengths to explain why there were >no clouds and rarely any snow at the south pole. Their's? (The NYT's?) More correction in that the Times has a program, Discovery Times on the Discovery Channel. Discovery Channel, on the other hand, is from the Discovery Communications conglomerate which includes that ultra-liberal Military Channel which was formerly Discovery Wings. > >Let me give you an easier one, how did the freon get across the doldrums? >More magical properties? Doldrums, like the depression currently encountered by voters with the current administration? Or Doldrums as in the Horse Latitudes, trade winds and all that lower atmosphere stuff that resides below the Ozone layer that Freon (CFCs) has been eroding? Let's see, you put together CFCs, Ozone, and ionizing radiation where it is (and not where it ain't) and you punch a hole from the combination. I suppose if the earth's magnetic poles were situated in Morocco and Hawaii (the east and west pole?); then the stream of ionization radiation from the sun, combining with the far richer CFC and Ozone combination above the equator would have holes in the ionosphere the size of Mars, instead of the size of the United States. >History will note the second dark ages as the period when academics was >corrupeted by money and politics of the left. We on the otherhand are >blessed to live during this era of junk science. What are the medical insurance coverages for Creationist science carcinoma treatment? 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229620 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Michael Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 16:23:42 -0400 Message-ID: References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <12fhjmr9ksc7p56@corp.supernews.com> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> Cecil Moore wrote: > Michael Coslo wrote: >> Okay Cecil. I apologize, for I have upset you, quite a bit it appears. > > You haven't upset me, Mike. Hillary Clinton, Fidel Castro, > and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad upset me because they believe my > life belongs to the state. You don't believe that, do you? Heck No! Just when you wrote that back to my reply to whatever post I replied to , it looked like you were p****d at me. Okay, I'll reset. - 73 DE MIKE KB3EIA - Article: 229621 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Michael Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 16:59:13 -0400 Message-ID: References: <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <_u9Lg.6795$yO7.345@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <0yeLg.21184$kO3.9509@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <1c8bc$44fdbf43$97d56bfc$18231@ALLTEL.NET> Richard Clark wrote: > On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:16:41 -0400, "Fred Hambrecht" > wrote: > >> I still await an explanation of how freon, that is heavier than air, manages >> to make it to the South pole and finds the magical propert to climb to the >> ionisphere and eat ozone. > > Hi Fred, > > Hmmm, water is heavier than air. How does it manage? Even clouds are > heavier than air. Rain comes from asteroids, comets, and meteors? > Dust is heavier than air, as is smoke that comes from China and lands > here in Seattle. > > They all rise from the same mechanism - sunlight. Heat generates > convection currents. Currents raise pollution that traps heat. More > heat generates more convection currents. More currents raise more > pollution. > > Arguably "more" is by slight degrees, but as any capitalist knows, > compound interest is where the money (pollution) is, and most > technicians have had experience with Thermal Runaway. Another way of looking at it is that Freon is indeed heavier than air. So is dust, so is salt, so is ice. All these things can reach high into the atmosphere. We know when spring plowing happens in China, because a fair amount of dust reaches us. Well, that freon is a lot lighter than the dust. It can be stirred up by the wind, which is derived from sunlight. Salt spray can also be measured in the stratosphere, and it is much much heavier than Freon. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229622 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:15:24 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <_u9Lg.6795$yO7.345@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <0yeLg.21184$kO3.9509@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <1c8bc$44fdbf43$97d56bfc$18231@ALLTEL.NET> Message-ID: Fred Hambrecht wrote: REDACTED > > I still await an explanation of how freon, that is heavier than air, manages > to make it to the South pole and finds the magical propert to climb to the > ionisphere and eat ozone. CO2 is also heavier than air, about 1.5 X air [at standard conditions]. What's missing from the observation are the effects of a turbulent atmosphere and the specific heat of both freon and CO2 molecules, among others. In the absence of solar heating and air turbulence both CO2 and FREON would be hugging the earth's surface and we most likely would not be here [suffocated]. I'm not an atmospheric physicist, but I expect that both CO2 and Freon have three dimensional motion. They absorb energy from the sun at different rates [their specific heats and photon absorption cross sections are significantly different] and expand [become lighter in terms of grams/m^3 @ p=cons.]. Air also absorbs energy from the sun and expands. The three expansion rates are different and cause a 'general' lift to the individual gases. This 'lift' is not laminar, and therefore contributes to a turbulent atmosphere [AKA wind]. As part of the turbulent flow the heavier molecules are lifted to higher altitudes where they expand further [become lighter in terms of grams/M^3][Similar to clouds]. Eventually, the lift has insufficient buoyancy to sustain the heavier molecules and they start a drift back to earth. Some return to earth level. Others are caught in the updraft and re-cycle to a higher altitude [similar to a vortex phenomena]. My hypothesis, and qualitative description, would lead to a conclusion that a band, a thick layer, a region [similar to the E or F regions we are familiar with] of turbulent heavy gases of varying density forms above the sensible atmosphere and exhibits turbulent rotation similar to a vortex. I'm ignorant here and this is just a hypothesis. If we have any atmospheric physicists or meteorologists on the list I would love to be properly instructed. /s/ DD, W1MCE Article: 229623 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "nesesu" Subject: Re: Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna Date: 5 Sep 2006 14:19:26 -0700 Message-ID: <1157491166.619900.121450@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com> References: <1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest.com> Well put, John. I have understood the purpose of the 'matching network' for years, but I have been puzzled by the source impedance expected on the generator side. I have several RF generators of various vintages in my collection and most of the older tube ones have most peculiar output attenuators that would have impedances that vary all over the place depending on the setting of the output attenuator, frequency and, to some degree, output cable length. On 'modern' generators, once you cut in 10dB or more of attenuator, the output inpedance it pretty close to the specified, but even many of them are quite a low impedance at 0 dB. Perhaps someone with spice can characterize the output impedance of the IRE network when fed from a generator of 0 ohm, 50 ohm, 75 ohm and, say, 200 ohm output impedance. Neil S. John Byrns wrote: > In article , jangus@socal.rr.com > wrote: > > > Michael A. Terrell wrote: > > > "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote: > > > > > >>I am interested in the origins and purpose of the "IRE (Institute of > > >>Radio Engineers) Standard Dummy Antenna," as used during the alignment > > >>of radio receivers. > > > > > > Its to match the receiver to the generator. > > > > Or more specifically, it's to present a uniform high impedance > > from the generator to the radio. At the time, with the exception > > of a few lab grade instruments, signal generator outputs were all > > over the map with regards to output impedance. The "dummy antenna" > > presented a fairly uniform, and high, impedance to the radio and > > kept from detuning the front end while doing an alignment while > > connected to a signal generator. > This doesn't sound right, why would it be desirable "to present a uniform > high impedance from the generator to the radio"? The impedance of the > "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" is not exactly what I would call "high" > especially on some of the short wave bands, exactly what is a high > impedance in this context? > > It was my understanding that the purpose of the "IRE Standard Dummy > Antenna" was to provide a standard antenna to use for making performance > measurements, as well as for alignment at the factory and on the service > bench. > > As to the exact design of the of the "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna", I > understood that it was meant to represent the impedance characteristics a > typical antenna that might be used by a radio set owner. This topic has > been discussed here before and I seem to vaguely remember that someone may > have even dug up the exact nature of the antenna the "IRE Standard Dummy > Antenna" was designed to simulate. IIRC if you are only doing MW > broadcast band alignments a single capacitor will provide a very good > approximation of the "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" across the MW broadcast > band. The coil, resistor and second capacitor are there mainly to provide > the desired impedance on the short wave bands where the prototype antenna > has resonant effects > > There are at least two problems that the "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" > solves, the first being standardized measurements for obtaining > performance specifications, as it is possible for a manufacturer to > "improve" his products specifications by using his own specially designed > "Dummy Antenna". The second problem is how to align sets in the factory, > or on the service bench, when the final users actual antenna system is not > available. The problem is that the alignment of the antenna stage of a > radio is greatly affected by the impedance of the actual antenna that is > used with the radio. The "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" provides an > approximation of what was assumed to be a typical consumer antenna. Of > course what you really want to do is align the set with the actual antenna > attached that it is used with. > > > Regards, > > John Byrns > > > Surf my web pages at, http://users.rcn.com/jbyrns/ Article: 229624 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 22:24:42 +0100 From: Highland Ham Subject: Re: Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna References: <1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest.com> <44FD06B4.20425CB6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <87udnXALxte9dmDZnZ2dnUVZ8tSdnZ2d@pipex.net> It's really fun because those slugs are > WAA-AAY up in there, and difficult to reach. You can't do it with a > non-ferocious screwdriver, or even a ferocious one -- it's too tight. You > have to reach the shaft with needle-nose. In any case, all this fun aside, > I can tinker and bring it into line -- but I still wonder why I have to do > it in the first place. ================================== I always use tame screwdrivers which don't need to be caged. Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH Article: 229625 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:57:02 -0700 Message-ID: <5asrf2p3a4kkc4n80hi7os7h6ru90dqe65@4ax.com> References: <1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest.com> On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 21:51:10 -0700, "H. P. Friedrichs" wrote: >I gather that this circuit models a wire antenna of some type. Is this >true? "The Institute of Radio Engineers has defined the INPUT SENSITIVITY OF A RECEIVER as the number of microvolts required to produce standard output when applied through a dummy antenna having the characteristic impedance of the antenna with which the receiver is intended to operate, to the input terminals of the receiver." Boonton, 1954 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229626 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? Message-ID: References: <44fc70ab_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fd3218_2@newsfeed.slurp.net> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 22:11:02 GMT On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 06:48:57 -0500, "Richard Fry" wrote: >"Owen Duffy" wrote >>The mechanism is not "that the reflected wave must travel back to >>the PA anode and will be absorbed there causing overheating". >>Take an example of the 50 ohms load discussed, and an electrical half >>wave of 70 ohm line connected to a transmitter designed for a 50 ohm >>load. The transmitter behaves exactly as if that line were 50 ohms. >>Though there is a reflected travelling wave on the line, it does not >>travel back to the PA anode where it is absorbed and converted to >>heat. >____________ > >Really, the mechanism is there -- only the unique circumstance you describe >protects the PA from seeing reflected power in such cases. Other line >lengths in this scenario could stress PA components beyond their ratings. > Richard, There is not such a mechanism in the general case, the example I gave shows that the reflected wave does not necessarily travel back to the source where it is absorbed. If you re-read my words "Next thing, you will be thinking that the reflected wave must travel back to the PA anode and will be absorbed there causing overheating." Remembering the context was a wave on the dipole reflected from the o/c end, and the word "must" was used to mean "necessarily". Sure,transmission lines with VSWR may transform impedance, have higher losses (if they are long enough), operate at higher voltages in places (if they are long enough), operate with higher currents in places (if they are long enough). Nothing I have said is in conflict with that or suggests otherwise. Transmitters operated at other than their rated load impedance may operate at higher voltages, higher currents, different power etc and may damage components. Nothing I have said is in conflict with that or suggests otherwise. But, the mechanism is not that the reflected wave *necessarily* travels all the way back to the PA anode by virtue of some kind of momentum (as sometimes expressed by some amateurs). In the case raised by the OP, the reflected wave on the dipole and the forward wave resolve (as in resolution of phasors) to an impedance of 50+j0 (OP's hypothetical example), and the constraints / conditions at the feedline / feedpoint junction are fully satisfied with no reflected wave on the feedline. (I used the term resolve, Cecil must call it destructive interference.) The reflected wave on the dipole does not have a momentum that *must* carry it to the PA anode to be absorbed there. Owen -- Article: 229627 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) Message-ID: References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 22:52:47 GMT On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:12:38 GMT, Jim - NN7K wrote: >Owen- see my comments below > > >>> The mark of a beginner is blind faith in meters. >>> Most hams get over believing an "S" meter after a >>> few years, but very few get to the point of >>> doubting that SWR or power meter. You ought to try >>> hooking half a dozen SWR bridges and power meters >>> in series with your transmission line--all at the >>> same time. If the line is not pro­perly terminated >>> you'll probably get as many different readings as >>> you have meters. >> >> The author is not stating what has happened, what he has observed, but >> an opinion on what he thinks may happen. > >What happens is IN a HIGH SWR Mis-match, is that >the SWR (true) can only be measured at the load The definition of VSWR is the ratio of a voltage maximum to the adjacent voltage minimum on the transmission line. That definition might imply that VSWR cannot be directly measured at a point, but it is possible to use a directional coupler to measure the forward and reflected wave components in an very small region (wrt wavelength) and to calculate the VSWR at that point (for all intents and purposes). Using a directional coupler / sampler, VSWR can be measured by this indirect method anywhere along a transmission line by insertion of the coupler / sampler. It is reasonable to talk of VSWR at a point. >end. The reflected wave (Say infinity:1 is NOT a >constant, over the entire length of your coax, but >will take on the sinusoidial of the wavelength >for voltage (or current). Obviously, the reflected No, you appear to have a misconception. It is true that the reflected wave component is not constant with displacement for a lossy line. The amplitude of the reflected wave component decreases exponentially from the load end towards the source end, and the rate at which it decreases is given by the line's "matched line loss". The phase of the reflected wave component also changes with displacement (distance along the line). The amplitude of the forward wave component decreases exponentially >from the source end towards the load end, and the rate at which it decreases is given by the line's "matched line loss". The phase of the forward wave component also changes with displacement. The resultant of these two travelling waves is the standing wave pattern that can be observed with a voltage probe. You can find the derivation of SWR from those travelling waves in any reputable text book, I won't repeat it here. On practical lines at HF and above with practical loads, the SWR decreases smoothly from the load to the source because of line loss, the lower the loss, the lower the rate at which SWR falls as you approach the source. If you know the matched line loss and VSWR at one point, you can calculate the VSWR at any other point. ... clipped Owen -- Article: 229628 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Richard Fry" References: <44fc70ab_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fd3218_2@newsfeed.slurp.net> Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:04:36 -0500 Message-ID: <44fdd073_1@newsfeed.slurp.net> "Owen Duffy" wrote: > But, the mechanism is not that the reflected wave *necessarily* > travels all the way back to the PA anode by virtue of some kind of > momentumne / feedpoint junction are fully satisfied with no > reflected wave on the feedline. (I used the term resolve, Cecil must > call it destructive interference.) The reflected wave on the dipole > does not have a momentum that *must* carry it to the PA anode to be > absorbed there. _____________ However, any amount of reflected power from the termination at the far end of a transmission line has a greater chance of damaging tx PA components, and of stress/failure to the transmission line itself than if the reflected power from the antenna/load was zero, regardless of the electrical length of said transmission line. This reality of physics is not subject to debate, don't you agree? RF Article: 229629 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44FE050F.9010006@fuse.net> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:15:27 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Dave wrote: > Tom Donaly wrote: > > SNIPPED > >> >> >> Richard, he's a Libertarian. You have to expect sentences like >> that from Libertarians. >> 73, >> Tom Donaly, KA6RUH >> (P.S. Cecil is a Libertarian, too.) > > > Libertarian = Anarchy rules! > Democratic = Tyranny of the majority rules! > Republican = Strong private sector economy rules! In S. America it is known as Oligarchy > Socialist = Elitist know what's best for you and me. > Green Party = Nature rules, the hell with people. > Conservationist = Dinosaur's rule. > > /s/ DD > Article: 229630 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Dee Flint" References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it> <6qgcf2lpf7au64su084v3r86t0ea35iqof@4ax.com> Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 19:19:15 -0400 Message-ID: "Opus-" wrote in message news:6qgcf2lpf7au64su084v3r86t0ea35iqof@4ax.com... > > I have been watching this thread for a while and now I must join the > fray. > > On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:34:18 -0400, Dave spake > thusly: > >>George Orwell wrote: >> >>> Al Klein said: >>> >>> >>>>Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would >>>>expect you to be able to understand that. >>> >>> >>> Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the >>> hobby. What use is the code requirements? >> >>The 'use' is something you just can't understand. The 'use' is a >>commitment of >>time and talent which adds value to the license. The 'use' is investment. > > The term "investment" is very misleading. To explain my position, I am > in agreement that CW testing should go the way of the dinosaurs. I > have no problem with technical testing, as a way to ensure that > potential Hams can operate their radios properly, without causing > interference with neighbors and other Hams world wide. There is also a > safety factor, with transmitters that can kick out a LOT of > potentially dangerous power. So, technical exam = good idea. > Here in Canada, CW is not required IF you achieve at least 80% on your > technical exam. You need at least 55% WITH CW. > http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/en/sf08435e.html > This seems fair, to me. > > As for the "investment", not all investments are valuable. I invested > years of training to be a fully qualified mechanic. There is > considerable value in that investment, obviously, as it is my bread > and butter. > > But, would my investment be more valuable if, for example, if an > additional year of carpentry training were required for me to be > certified? I mean, after all, cars had wood frames and bodies at one > time so a mechanic would have needed carpentry skills...back in the > 1930's. Such an investment would be a bad one. The skills would have > no value and do nothing to enhance my skills as a mechanic. The extra > investment would have no return with regards to being a mechanic. > Carpentry would not make me a better mechanic and would not prove to > the world that I really wanted to be a mechanic. > > CW is as useful to todays Hams as carpentry is to a mechanic. A good > thing to learn, and potentially useful, but should not be a barrier. > This is where your analogy falls apart. CW is currently very useful to hams. It is in daily use. However, the arguments have already been presented and those with closed minds have rejected them. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Article: 229631 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44FE0793.10104@fuse.net> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:26:11 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44f8c478.6882613@news.optonline.net> <7b928$44f911ef$d1cc41d7$7098@snip.allthenewsgroups.com> <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <_u9Lg.6795$yO7.345@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <0yeLg.21184$kO3.9509@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <1c8bc$44fdbf43$97d56bfc$18231@ALLTEL.NET> Fred Hambrecht wrote: > The "sky is falling folks" also fail to take into account the nutation of > the earth that causes the earth to be tilted towards the sun a bit more... > Kinda like the difference between winter and summer tilt. > > It takes one hell of an ego to think that puny man can affect the earths > climate. PUNY MAN? > > I still await an explanation of how freon, that is heavier than air, manages > to make it to the South pole and finds the magical propert to climb to the > ionisphere and eat ozone. See a first-year Chemistry textbook for details > > Remember free-radicals? (not the jailed ones of the '60's) Free radical Cl. can and does enter the atmosphere and it is a product of the dissociation of freon. This is what destroys the ozone, IIRC. Hoping my college course memory isn't too far off target. > > > Article: 229632 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? Message-ID: References: <44fc70ab_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fd3218_2@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fdd073_1@newsfeed.slurp.net> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 23:40:54 GMT On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:04:36 -0500, "Richard Fry" wrote: >"Owen Duffy" wrote: >> But, the mechanism is not that the reflected wave *necessarily* >> travels all the way back to the PA anode by virtue of some kind of >> momentumne / feedpoint junction are fully satisfied with no >> reflected wave on the feedline. (I used the term resolve, Cecil must >> call it destructive interference.) The reflected wave on the dipole >> does not have a momentum that *must* carry it to the PA anode to be >> absorbed there. >_____________ > >However, any amount of reflected power from the termination at the far end >of a transmission line has a greater chance of damaging tx PA components, >and of stress/failure to the transmission line itself than if the reflected >power from the antenna/load was zero, regardless of the electrical length of >said transmission line. If it makes you more comfortable to restrict your solutions to those with flat lines (VSWR~=1) then that is ok with me, but that does not invalidate other approaches. Antenna systems incorporating lines with high VSWR do not necessarily subject the PA components to any different risk, or transmission lines to excessive stresses, it is a matter of design... and the design is more complex than buying a tx intended for 50ohm load, some 50ohm coax and a 50ohm antenna and plugging them all together. Owen -- Article: 229633 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim - NN7K Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) try again! References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 23:48:41 GMT So: therefore, Lecher Lines can't work?? They DON'T show the TRUE wavelength of a signal?? So, then, why were these devices used? to get light to see to read the manual?? Obviously V/F vs. V/R is EQUAL everywhere on a given line! which makes the lamp glow at the SAME intensity everywhere on the line?? Don't think so! Jim Owen Duffy wrote: > On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:12:38 GMT, Jim - NN7K wrote: > >> Owen- see my comments below > > The definition of VSWR is the ratio of a voltage maximum to the > adjacent voltage minimum on the transmission line. NO! the defination is V(MAX) forward/ V(MAX) reverse (at a given point)! That why they use 2 directional couplers (or one that rotates to change directions , like BIRD)! Like 2 signals, going in opposite directions, at the same freq, at the same time! > > That definition might imply that VSWR cannot be directly measured at a > point, but it is possible to use a directional coupler to measure the > forward and reflected wave components in an very small region (wrt > wavelength) and to calculate the VSWR at that point (for all intents > and purposes). This is HOW the Isotron "Antenna" is made to work- literally loading your coax to radiate! > > No, you appear to have a misconception. > > It is true that the reflected wave component is not constant with > displacement for a lossy line. Point being : it ain't even, in a LOSSLESS line! The amplitude of the reflected wave > component decreases exponentially from the load end towards the source > end, and the rate at which it decreases is given by the line's > "matched line loss". The phase of the reflected wave component also > changes with displacement (distance along the line). AS does the forward wave, combined with it! > > The amplitude of the forward wave component decreases exponentially > from the source end towards the load end, and the rate at which it > decreases is given by the line's "matched line loss". The phase of the > forward wave component also changes with displacement. > > The resultant of these two travelling waves is the standing wave > pattern that can be observed with a voltage probe. Which is why a lecher wire works But, you will find points that will measure a great swr, and yet it will be higher than a kite at the load end! Jim. >Jim Article: 229634 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 16:49:29 -0700 Message-ID: <12fs38ccodtn36b@corp.supernews.com> References: <44fc70ab_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fd3218_2@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fdd073_1@newsfeed.slurp.net> Richard Fry wrote: > > However, any amount of reflected power from the termination at the far > end of a transmission line has a greater chance of damaging tx PA > components, and of stress/failure to the transmission line itself than > if the reflected power from the antenna/load was zero, regardless of the > electrical length of said transmission line. > > This reality of physics is not subject to debate, don't you agree? Suppose I have a 50 ohm antenna fed with a one wavelength, 50 ohm transmission line. No reflected power, no damage. Now I replace the 50 ohm one wavelength line with a 300 ohm one wavelength line. For 100 watts delivered to the load, the forward power on the line is 204 watts and the reverse power is 104 watts. All that reverse power could do a lot of damage, then? So I guess I should replace the 50 ohm load with a 300 ohm one. Then there won't be any reflected power, and the transmitter should be ok. Right? After all, it's physics. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 229635 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Bruce Wilson" References: <6f3a5$44fdbf43$97d56bfc$18231@ALLTEL.NET> Subject: Re: G5RV trimmed for voice? Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:24:08 -0600 Message-ID: <-O2dnZHr9d-2iGPZnZ2dnUVZ_oCdnZ2d@comcast.com> I was thinking that maybe the efficiency of an antenna resonant at 3.5 MHz would be poor at 3.8 MHz where I want to use it. If there is no diminution of efficiency when the tuner fixes the impedance, then I'll just keep using it as is. -- Bruce Wilson KF7K http://science.uvsc.edu/wilson "Fred Hambrecht" wrote in message news:6f3a5$44fdbf43$97d56bfc$18231@ALLTEL.NET... > The G5RV requires a tuner, this obviates trimming the antenna for any > portion of a band. > > If you look at the total antenna system (feed line length and antenna > length) you will find that shorting the antenna and leaving the feedline > length alone will result in not being able to tune the high end of the > band on 75 meters using most commercially available tuners. > > If you plot all frequencies betwee 3.5 and 30 Mc you will note a large > hole just above 4 Mc where no practical tuner can create a match. > > "Bruce Wilson" wrote in message > news:t8SdnUpQuZk-b2HZnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com... >>I was looking through the G5RV instructions including the original >>article, and it's clear the antenna, when it is 102 feet long, is tuned >>for the bottom of the bands. Anyone have any experience trimming one down >>to resonate in the mid part of the voice bands? >> >> -- >> Bruce Wilson KF7K >> http://science.uvsc.edu/wilson >> > > Article: 229636 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Danny Richardson Subject: Re: G5RV trimmed for voice? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:47:39 -0700 Message-ID: <5k6sf2dv7cpl4rom60cp7h8stlbbcsmpl0@4ax.com> References: <6f3a5$44fdbf43$97d56bfc$18231@ALLTEL.NET> <-O2dnZHr9d-2iGPZnZ2dnUVZ_oCdnZ2d@comcast.com> On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:24:08 -0600, "Bruce Wilson" wrote: >I was thinking that maybe the efficiency of an antenna resonant at 3.5 MHz >would be poor at 3.8 MHz where I want to use it. If there is no diminution >of efficiency when the tuner fixes the impedance, then I'll just keep using >it as is. Good choice! the receiving station will never know the difference. Danny, K6MHE Article: 229637 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Robert Sherrod Subject: Re: Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna References: <1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 01:24:40 GMT H. P. Friedrichs wrote: > I am interested in the origins and purpose of the "IRE (Institute of > Radio Engineers) Standard Dummy Antenna," as used during the alignment > of radio receivers. > > I first came across this circuit in some old Hallicrafter's > documentation, which described the alignment of a particular radio. The > "IRE Standard Dummy Antenna" consists of four components--- a 200pf cap > in series with a 20 uH inductor, which links the signal generator to the > receiver's antenna input. A 400 pF cap in series with a 400 ohm resistor > is connected in parallel with (shunts)the inductor. > > I gather that this circuit models a wire antenna of some type. Is this > true? What is the import of the component values and how were they > arrived at? I modeled the circuit in Spice and graphed the transfer and > impedance curves but it is not entirely clear to me what benefit there > is to using this circuit. > > I've also Googled this and found some references here and there, but > nothing explains the "why" of it. > > Is there anyone who can shed light on this? > > 73 > Pete > AC7ZL > > hpf (at) gainbroadband (dot) com I built an I.R.E. dummy antenna recently to perform an alignment on a Hallicrafters S-120. It is cobbled together on a small perfboard with copper lands around the holes, has a length of coax with a male BNC connector to go the the sig-gen and a female BNC connector to attach the sig-gen lead. I will post a pic on a.b.p.r when I can. Bobby KC9IHK Article: 229638 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Opus- Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Message-ID: <719sf2tn97k2704h0uj3q1u7j7fu6ksk9m@4ax.com> References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it> <6qgcf2lpf7au64su084v3r86t0ea35iqof@4ax.com> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 01:47:46 GMT On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 19:19:15 -0400, "Dee Flint" spake thusly: > >"Opus-" wrote in message >news:6qgcf2lpf7au64su084v3r86t0ea35iqof@4ax.com... >> >> I have been watching this thread for a while and now I must join the >> fray. >> >> On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:34:18 -0400, Dave spake >> thusly: >> >>>George Orwell wrote: >>> >>>> Al Klein said: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would >>>>>expect you to be able to understand that. >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the >>>> hobby. What use is the code requirements? >>> >>>The 'use' is something you just can't understand. The 'use' is a >>>commitment of >>>time and talent which adds value to the license. The 'use' is investment. >> >> The term "investment" is very misleading. To explain my position, I am >> in agreement that CW testing should go the way of the dinosaurs. I >> have no problem with technical testing, as a way to ensure that >> potential Hams can operate their radios properly, without causing >> interference with neighbors and other Hams world wide. There is also a >> safety factor, with transmitters that can kick out a LOT of >> potentially dangerous power. So, technical exam = good idea. >> Here in Canada, CW is not required IF you achieve at least 80% on your >> technical exam. You need at least 55% WITH CW. >> http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/en/sf08435e.html >> This seems fair, to me. >> >> As for the "investment", not all investments are valuable. I invested >> years of training to be a fully qualified mechanic. There is >> considerable value in that investment, obviously, as it is my bread >> and butter. >> >> But, would my investment be more valuable if, for example, if an >> additional year of carpentry training were required for me to be >> certified? I mean, after all, cars had wood frames and bodies at one >> time so a mechanic would have needed carpentry skills...back in the >> 1930's. Such an investment would be a bad one. The skills would have >> no value and do nothing to enhance my skills as a mechanic. The extra >> investment would have no return with regards to being a mechanic. >> Carpentry would not make me a better mechanic and would not prove to >> the world that I really wanted to be a mechanic. >> >> CW is as useful to todays Hams as carpentry is to a mechanic. A good >> thing to learn, and potentially useful, but should not be a barrier. >> > >This is where your analogy falls apart. CW is currently very useful to >hams. It is in daily use. However, the arguments have already been >presented and those with closed minds have rejected them. > >Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Sorry, but your wrong, my analogy is just fine for this subject. CW to a ham, like carpentry to a mechanic, can be useful BUT is NOT NECESSARY for each to do what they want to do effectively and properly. Don't be one of those closed minds. Yes, a ham CAN use CW if he wants and more power to him/her to do so. A mechanic CAN learn to be a carpenter if he wants to and more power to him/her to do so. But carpentry will not make a mechanic a better mechanic, no more than CW will make a ham operator a better ham operator. More useful to themselves and others, but NOT better. Just because carpentry COULD maybe be useful to a mechanic does not mean that he should be required to learn carpentry to be a mechanic. A mechanic can be a damn good mechanic without picking up a hammer and a ham can be a damn good ham without touching a key. I said it before and I'll say it again. 70 years ago a good mechanic needed carpentry skills but no more. 70 years ago a good ham needed to know code but no more. A code test for todays prospective hams is like a carpentry test for todays prospective mechanics. Article: 229639 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: G5RV trimmed for voice? Message-ID: References: <6f3a5$44fdbf43$97d56bfc$18231@ALLTEL.NET> <-O2dnZHr9d-2iGPZnZ2dnUVZ_oCdnZ2d@comcast.com> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 01:53:35 GMT On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:24:08 -0600, "Bruce Wilson" wrote: >I was thinking that maybe the efficiency of an antenna resonant at 3.5 MHz >would be poor at 3.8 MHz where I want to use it. If there is no diminution >of efficiency when the tuner fixes the impedance, then I'll just keep using >it as is. Bruce, I have some antenna system loss plots for a G5RV IV using different types of feedline at http://www.vk1od.net/G5RV/index.htm . There is a narrow optimal area around the 75/80m band, and the impact depends on the length and grade of the coax used, ie the coax loss. The exact frequency range will depend to some extent on your own installation. I would suggest that if you wanted to minimise the coax loss on 3.8MHz, you could adjust (shorten?) the dipole or the open wire section, but that will also affect the other bands. Though it will affect the other bands, the win on 3.8MHz might be worthwhile as the antenna is less critical and lower loss on those higher bands on which it performs reasonably. Owen PS: liked your pics, very impressive even when viewed at screen resolution. -- Article: 229640 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 20:51:53 -0500 From: Tom Ring Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <8nfrf29pm52kvrf9qicp3sei5muhifk4ac@4ax.com> Message-ID: <44fe29b9$0$6146$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Richard Clark wrote: > > Hi Tom, > > I've probably voted for more Libertarians on one ballot than either of > them in their lives. We need more genetic diversity in the political > gene pool. Problem is those parties don't work nearly hard enough to > build a grass-roots. Umm, I should ammend that and say they don't > work at all to do it. Based on what you said during the last election, I find it tough to believe you have ever voted anything but the D line. Unless I am mixing you up with someone else, you went out and bribed street people to vote 2 years ago. > > Third parties are invariably so self-centered that they want to start > at the top (notably Lyndon Larouche). Unfortunately, courtesy of W we > now have an example of how that turns out when the most left wing > fascist elements put their man in at the top, and the right wing has > voted in politburo lock-step to advanced the party planks of Leon > Trotsky. All Larouche needs to learn is how to haul down the flag, > and start waving bacon. > You are correct to a certain extent on the 3rd party candidates, our home grown idiot, Jesse "The Mind" (his nickname for himself during the election) Ventura is a prime example. He "started" a 3rd party here, and dumped it after he got the governorship. He was as bad a governor as we've had, but since they've all been Democrats, including the Republicans, that's not surprising. Both of the major parties are corrupt and don't give a rat's ass what the electorate wants once the votes are cast. There isn't a gnat's whisker difference between them when you look at what gets into law. On the court appointees, on the other hand, I might agree they are different. I will still vote for anyone but the big 2. Any vote for them is wasted, any vote for anyone but them will at least show that some of us want change. A vote for a Republicrat is a wasted vote. It just keeps the current crap in place. tom K0TAR Article: 229641 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 20:55:10 -0500 From: Tom Ring Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <_u9Lg.6795$yO7.345@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <0yeLg.21184$kO3.9509@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <1c8bc$44fdbf43$97d56bfc$18231@ALLTEL.NET> Message-ID: <44fe2a7e$0$6146$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Richard Clark wrote: > Hi Fred, > > Hmmm, water is heavier than air. How does it manage? Even clouds are > heavier than air. Rain comes from asteroids, comets, and meteors? > Dust is heavier than air, as is smoke that comes from China and lands > here in Seattle. > > They all rise from the same mechanism - sunlight. Heat generates > convection currents. Currents raise pollution that traps heat. More > heat generates more convection currents. More currents raise more > pollution. > > Arguably "more" is by slight degrees, but as any capitalist knows, > compound interest is where the money (pollution) is, and most > technicians have had experience with Thermal Runaway. > > 73's > Richard Clark, KB7QHC And here we agree. People that ignore scientific facts are, what's that word? tom K0TAR Article: 229642 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Brian" Subject: Re: Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna Date: 5 Sep 2006 19:27:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1157509627.081239.315910@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest.com> Pete, I was curious about the dummy antenna, too. Some time ago I modeled it and checked the impedance looking back into the output leads with a 50-ohm generator at the source. The results are here: http://users.tns.net/~bb/dummy.htm Before I did the model I figured that the dummy antenna was trying to simulate a certain length of wire on shortwave. But you can see that the magnitude of the output impedance (upper plot) is around 400 ohms throughout the shortwave part of the spectrum. Down in the broadcast band the network becomes almost purely capacitive, which is what a short wire will do. In fact, at 500 and 1000 kHz (the two spots I checked), the dummy impedance is almost exactly that of a wire that runs 15 feet vertically and then 90 feet horizontally over perfectly conducting ground. I imagine they had a 100-foot wire in mind, a figure I think I've seen recommended for BC antenna length in the old days. So I think the network is intended to be 400 ohms resistive at SW and at BC behave as a 100-foot wire would. I align radios with the network and then at installation I tweak the antenna capacitors, if they are easily accessible, on the actual antenna. Brian Article: 229643 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) try again! Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 20:05:44 -0700 Message-ID: References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 23:48:41 GMT, Jim - NN7K wrote: >> The definition of VSWR is the ratio of a voltage maximum to the >> adjacent voltage minimum on the transmission line. > >NO! the defination is V(MAX) forward/ V(MAX) > reverse (at a given point)! Hi Jim, Are you so quick to impeach your Lecher line testimony from only one paragraph earlier? Owen's definition is perfectly correct, classic in fact. It may not be the only one, but historically (as in Lecher lines) it certainly preceeds yours by decades. However, it does suffer from accuracy (but that hardly vindicates the common Bruene circuit). There are at least half a dozen ways to measure SWR, each one being more appropriate for certain regions of the magnitude. Some SWRs that are very low or very high would be impossible to measure using either method described above. Only academics are concerned with those methods. I've put my hand to most of them. I wasn't an academic, but NBS standards did demand their use. Some techniques are infinitely better than either described above (this presumes Owen's description consisting of a raw detector which introduces up to 23% error from square law problems). 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229644 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) try again! Message-ID: References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 03:22:37 GMT On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 23:48:41 GMT, Jim - NN7K wrote: ... >> >> The definition of VSWR is the ratio of a voltage maximum to the >> adjacent voltage minimum on the transmission line. > >NO! the defination is V(MAX) forward/ V(MAX) > reverse (at a given point)! That why they use 2 >directional couplers (or one that rotates to > change directions , like BIRD)! Like 2 signals, >going in opposite directions, at the same freq, >at the same time! No, you are quite confused / wrong. VSWR is *NOT* V(MAX) forward/ V(MAX) reverse (at a given point). VSWR=|Vmax|/|Vmin| VSWR=(|Vf|+|Vr|)/(|Vf|-|Vr|) You seem to be mixing up the forward and reflected wave components, and the resultant SWR pattern. You need to go back to the text books and work it through. ... Owen -- Article: 229645 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 20:36:44 -0700 Message-ID: <26fsf2lf9cfh5qt3nb5lme4q7orgqrnsn6@4ax.com> References: <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <8nfrf29pm52kvrf9qicp3sei5muhifk4ac@4ax.com> <44fe29b9$0$6146$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 20:51:53 -0500, Tom Ring wrote: >Based on what you said during the last election, I find it tough to >believe you have ever voted anything but the D line. Unless I am mixing >you up with someone else, you went out and bribed street people to vote >2 years ago. Tom, Tom, Tom, Is there some Libertarian weed you've been smoking? You can read tea leaves (leave aside ballots, because only Diebold machines can report that) on the basis of what is "said?" I'm afraid you are running a distant last against votes penned by me for low these 36 years. As far as street people, no, I listened to them gush on about how they were going to vote for W. One fellow came up to me and leaned on my ear for an hour telling me how he was a soldier of fortune for Milosivic (OK, so I misspelled Ossama) in Bosnia (or Herzogovina or Toxiana) and fully expected to see W in another term. Then he and the rest would try to bum change (if that is what you mean by bribe), or a cigarette, and then left their empties nearby to take a dump in the alley. They only differ from Rush Limburger by not being as fat, and they couldn't afford to shop doctors for prescription dope. What was supremely ironic is that the state Republican party fought tooth and nail to evict them from the voting booth. Talk about taking the poison pill for the sake of political purity, this is like a Jim Jones kool-aid party to me. No doubt, two years hence in the next election cycle I will be remembered as volunteering to hand out cyanide pills at the polling station. Would you care to be a reference so I can apply early? 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229646 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? References: <44fc70ab_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fd3218_2@newsfeed.slurp.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 03:39:06 GMT Owen Duffy wrote: > (I used the term resolve, Cecil must > call it destructive interference.) When two coherent waves superpose in an out-of-phase manner, it is called destructive interference. When two coherent waves superpose in an in-phase manner, it is called constructive interference. 100V at 0 deg superposed with 50V at 180 deg equals 50V at 0 deg. That's destructive interference. 100V at 0 deg superposed with 50V at 0 deg equals 150V at 0 deg. That's constructive interference. One can solve a mental example. Assume a 1/4WL 600 ohm open stub made from resistance wire such that its impedance is 50 ohms. Apply a signal from a piece of 50 ohm coax and analyze the conditions at the physical 50/600 ohm impedance discontinuity. One will get a good idea of what goes on with a 1/2WL dipole at the feedpoint. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229647 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 03:44:13 GMT Owen Duffy wrote: > Using a directional coupler / sampler, VSWR can be measured by this > indirect method anywhere along a transmission line by insertion of the > coupler / sampler. In fact, if one measures the forward power, Pfor, and the reflected power, Pref, at a point on a transmission line, SWR = [SQRT(Pfor) + SQRT(Pref)] / [SQRT(Pfor) - SQRT(Pref)] -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229648 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) try again! References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> Message-ID: <3CrLg.21383$kO3.345@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 03:52:31 GMT Jim - NN7K wrote: > Owen Duffy wrote: >> The definition of VSWR is the ratio of a voltage maximum to the >> adjacent voltage minimum on the transmission line. > > NO! the defination is V(MAX) forward/ V(MAX) > reverse (at a given point)! If V(MAX) forward = 100V and V(MAX) reverse = 0V, then the SWR is infinite? If V(MAX) forward = 100V and V(MAX) reverse = 100V, then the SWR is 1:1? Doesn't that sound exactly backwards to you? -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229649 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? References: <44fc70ab_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fd3218_2@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fdd073_1@newsfeed.slurp.net> <12fs38ccodtn36b@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 03:58:40 GMT Roy Lewallen wrote: > Now I replace the 50 ohm one wavelength line with a 300 ohm one > wavelength line. For 100 watts delivered to the load, the forward power > on the line is 204 watts and the reverse power is 104 watts. All that > reverse power could do a lot of damage, then? Probably not at that power level but try this: Let's say the power handling limit for the 300 ohm line is 1000 watts under matched line conditions. We are delivering 1000 watts to the 50 ohm load. The forward power on the 300 ohm line is 2040 watts and the reverse power on the 300 ohm line is 1040 watts. Yes indeed, the reflected power can cause the 300 ohm line to burn up which is the point Richard Fry was trying to make. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229650 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: G5RV trimmed for voice? References: <6f3a5$44fdbf43$97d56bfc$18231@ALLTEL.NET> <-O2dnZHr9d-2iGPZnZ2dnUVZ_oCdnZ2d@comcast.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 04:03:55 GMT Bruce Wilson wrote: > I was thinking that maybe the efficiency of an antenna resonant at 3.5 MHz > would be poor at 3.8 MHz where I want to use it. If there is no diminution > of efficiency when the tuner fixes the impedance, then I'll just keep using > it as is. A G5RV that is resonant at 3.5 MHz would suffer additional losses at 3.8 MHz because of the higher SWR but the ham listening on the other end probably wouldn't notice the difference. But for 10m, the difference between 28 MHz and 29.7 MHz could certainly be appreciable. Try a 1000 pf silver mica cap across the twinlead at the twinlead/coax junction just on 75m. I think you would like the result. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229651 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 21:08:47 -0700 From: "H. P. Friedrichs" Subject: Re: Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna References: <1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest.com> <1157509627.081239.315910@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Brian-- Your spice simulation looked familiar...VERY familiar. As it turns out, I had plotted similar curves and happened to have used Microcap as well! I was just not sure I understood the relationship between the transfer function I saw and some kind of physical antenna. Your comments make sense, though I do have one question: How did you calculate the impedance of the antenna with the shape and dimensions that you described? 73 Pete AC7ZL Brian wrote: > Pete, I was curious about the dummy antenna, too. Some time ago I > modeled it and checked the impedance looking back into the output leads > with a 50-ohm generator at the source. The results are here: > > http://users.tns.net/~bb/dummy.htm > > Before I did the model I figured that the dummy antenna was trying to > simulate a certain length of wire on shortwave. But you can see that > the magnitude of the output impedance (upper plot) is around 400 ohms > throughout the shortwave part of the spectrum. Down in the broadcast > band the network becomes almost purely capacitive, which is what a > short wire will do. > > In fact, at 500 and 1000 kHz (the two spots I checked), the dummy > impedance is almost exactly that of a wire that runs 15 feet vertically > and then 90 feet horizontally over perfectly conducting ground. I > imagine they had a 100-foot wire in mind, a figure I think I've seen > recommended for BC antenna length in the old days. > > So I think the network is intended to be 400 ohms resistive at SW and > at BC behave as a 100-foot wire would. I align radios with the network > and then at installation I tweak the antenna capacitors, if they are > easily accessible, on the actual antenna. > > Brian > Article: 229652 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jeffrey D Angus Subject: Re: Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna References: <1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest.com> <1157509627.081239.315910@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <3WrLg.27$rE5.5@tornado.socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 04:13:51 GMT Brian wrote: > The results are here: > > http://users.tns.net/~bb/dummy.htm Nice charts, thanks for doing those. > So I think the network is intended to be 400 ohms resistive at > SW and at BC behave as a 100-foot wire would. Pretty much what I said initially. A uniform high impedance. As others pointed out the output attenuator of most "service" grade signal generators at the time was all over the place. What I find amazing is that what we can do with Spice in a few minutes was painstakingly done by hand until the they got the results they desired. Then published as a "cook book" standard for others to use. The bottom line was that you could introduce a signal into the receiver under test without undue de-tuning of the tuned circuits. Jeff -- RESTRICTED AREA. Anyone intruding shall immediately become subject to the jurisdiction of military law. Intruders will be subject to lethal force, without warning, and on sight. USE OF DEADLY FORCE IS AUTHORIZED under the Internal Security Act of 1950. Article: 229653 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim - NN7K Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 04:14:18 GMT Quite true- the point I'm tryint to make is, that when makeing swr measurements, that the APPARENT measured swr, need have little/no relation to what the true swr , depending on Where the swr is measured in a line. at least with cheap meters. and it really gets disconserting, when you calibrate a SWR meter, (forward power , to the set line, and then measure a reflected swr that is Beyond the set line! Admittedly, much of that is from too big a sampleing line, but it is beyond the ability to have MORE power returned to the source, than the source provided (perpetual motion machine)! And, that you can prune a feed line and lower your swr (measured), but that doesn't change the load's mis-match, does it? And that lines (1/4 wave, shorted, or 1/2 wave open) form a very high impedence. Translation: whatever is on that end of that line will repeat (ZL) every 1/2 wavelength, will it not ? And , the opposite would also be true (1/4 wave back, and in odd multiples thereof, would this not show a dead short (electrically), in a connected line? Where am I wrong ? just curious -Jim Cecil Moore wrote: > Owen Duffy wrote: >> Using a directional coupler / sampler, VSWR can be measured by this >> indirect method anywhere along a transmission line by insertion of the >> coupler / sampler. > > In fact, if one measures the forward power, Pfor, and the > reflected power, Pref, at a point on a transmission line, > > SWR = [SQRT(Pfor) + SQRT(Pref)] / [SQRT(Pfor) - SQRT(Pref)] Article: 229654 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> Message-ID: <9osLg.21388$kO3.13134@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 04:45:57 GMT Jim - NN7K wrote: > ... but it is > beyond the ability to have MORE power returned > to the source, than the source provided Did you know a reflection coefficient can be greater than 1.0? > that you can prune a feed > line and lower your swr (measured), but that doesn't change the load's > mis-match, does it? If the Z0 of the feedline is different from the Z0 of the SWR meter, then the meter is not measuring the SWR on the feedline. > And that lines (1/4 wave, shorted, or 1/2 wave open) form a very high > impedence. The (virtual) impedance is (Vfor+Vref)/(Ifor-Iref) The closer that Iref gets to Ifor, the lower the stub losses and the higher the (virtual) impedance. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229655 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Brian" Subject: Re: Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna Date: 5 Sep 2006 21:55:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1157518510.827658.109280@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest.com> > Your comments make sense, though I do have one question: How did you > calculate the impedance of the antenna with the shape and dimensions > that you described? With a computer program. Brian Article: 229656 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) Message-ID: <6mtsf2hn1cvsk6p30i734bd555crr5u55b@4ax.com> References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 07:36:13 GMT On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 22:52:47 GMT, Owen Duffy wrote: ... >It is true that the reflected wave component is not constant with >displacement for a lossy line. The amplitude of the reflected wave >component decreases exponentially from the load end towards the source >end, and the rate at which it decreases is given by the line's >"matched line loss". The phase of the reflected wave component also >changes with displacement (distance along the line). > >The amplitude of the forward wave component decreases exponentially >from the source end towards the load end, and the rate at which it >decreases is given by the line's "matched line loss". The phase of the >forward wave component also changes with displacement. ... >On practical lines at HF and above with practical loads, the SWR >decreases smoothly from the load to the source because of line loss, >the lower the loss, the lower the rate at which SWR falls as you >approach the source. ... I have plotted theoretical forward and reflected power for a detailed model of RG58C/U at 100MHz with a severely mismatched load to illustrate the underlying thing that is being measured by a reflectometer. The plots are at http://www.vk1od.net/lost/NN7K.htm . Comments? Owen -- Article: 229657 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "electro" Subject: 8-element butler array spacing Date: 6 Sep 2006 01:47:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1157532479.297911.78070@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> the scanning beam of butler arrays is affected by its antenna "free-space" spacing. im developing an 8-butler patch-based antenna array using an fr4 board with er=4.2 and T=1.6mm with loss of .03... im having problem with dimension so i squeezed the antenna element spacing to its equivalent "guided" wavelength.... my questions are:how will this board guided spacing affects my radiation pattern?i'd like to go for RT duroid boards with er=10.2 but its very expensive.. any ideas to workaounr with my fr4 board? thanks Article: 229658 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" Subject: Re: Mobile antenna shootout results? Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 06:05:57 -0500 Message-ID: <12ftasjbao28f59@corp.supernews.com> References: <30crf2tvdpcflp7vmhnqsplvpcjatatu1p@4ax.com> <12frh3ek1vofgc7@corp.supernews.com> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:ywkLg.15347$1f6.8137@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net... > Roy Lewallen wrote: >> I don't see any information at that web site about the type of vehicle. >> Since the vehicle radiates an amount comparable to the antenna, it can >> have a profound effect on the overall field strength. Were all those >> antennas mounted on the same type of vehicle? > > Those are averages, Roy, not associated with any particular > vehicle. The average screwdriver beats the average hamstick > on 75m. Using similar antennas, the larger vehicles (GMC > pickups) usually beat the smaller vehicles (Honda Civics). > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Makes sense. Also confirms my experience. I've also found optimum performance driving the antenna where it's resonant and matching the (purely resistive) impedances with a transformer. In this case a simple toroidal autoformer. At 40 meters, a Tarheel screwdriver with a five-foot whip is about 20 ohms, for example. 73 H. Article: 229659 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Richard Fry" References: <44fc70ab_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fd3218_2@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fdd073_1@newsfeed.slurp.net> <12fs38ccodtn36b@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 06:14:40 -0500 Message-ID: <44fe7b91_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> "Roy Lewallen" wrote > Suppose I have a 50 ohm antenna fed with a one wavelength, 50 ohm > transmission line. No reflected power, no damage. > > Now I replace the 50 ohm one wavelength line with a 300 ohm one wavelength > line. For 100 watts delivered to the load, the forward power on the line > is 204 watts and the reverse power is 104 watts. All that reverse power > could do a lot of damage, then? > > So I guess I should replace the 50 ohm load with a 300 ohm one. Then there > won't be any reflected power, and the transmitter should be ok. Right? ___________ As you well know, the system change you describe will not remove all reflected power seen at the output of a tx expecting a 50 ohm load. You have simply moved the source of the reflection back to the plane of the tx output connector. Under your scenario the transmission line is happy, but the tx - not so much. RF Article: 229660 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:22:37 GMT Owen Duffy wrote: > The plots are at http://www.vk1od.net/lost/NN7K.htm . > Comments? Good stuff, Owen. Can the average SWR meter be calibrated for the actual Z0 rather than for 50+j0 ohms? -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229661 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Dipole with standing wave - what happens to reflected wave? References: <44fc70ab_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fd3218_2@newsfeed.slurp.net> <44fdd073_1@newsfeed.slurp.net> <12fs38ccodtn36b@corp.supernews.com> <44fe7b91_4@newsfeed.slurp.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:39:03 GMT Richard Fry wrote: > As you well know, the system change you describe will not remove all > reflected power seen at the output of a tx expecting a 50 ohm load. You > have simply moved the source of the reflection back to the plane of the > tx output connector. Sometimes it helps to understand the situation by mentally adding one wavelength of lossless feedline to the system. Roy's suggestion to change to a 300 ohm load only apparently eliminates the reflections. XMTR---1/2WL 300 ohm feedline---300 ohm load Mentally add the one wavelength of lossless 50 ohm line. Conditions remain the same but the reflections are exposed. XMTR--1WL 50 ohm feedline--+--1/2WL 300 ohm feedline--300 ohm load There's a 6:1 SWR on the 1WL 50 ohm feedline and we have reflected energy incident upon the source, just as you described above. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229662 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <44FEC319.9090403@fuse.net> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 08:46:17 -0400 From: jawod Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Cecil Moore wrote: > Dave wrote: > >> Libertarian = Anarchy rules! > > > From: http://www.lp.org/article_85.shtml > > What is a Libertarian? > I think the Barney Protocol needs to be reviewed: Barney Miller is a socialist Barney Fife is a fascist ***Barney Rubble is a libertarian*** and (this just in)... Barney Google has joined the Republican Party Article: 229663 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Brian" Subject: Re: Curious about the I.R.E. Standard Dummy Antenna Date: 6 Sep 2006 06:53:51 -0700 Message-ID: <1157550831.436196.217530@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: <1YOdna1FqcOin2DZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@velocitywest.com> Pete, I forgot to mention the reason I believe the IRE dummy antenna tries to look like a 400-ohm resistive load at shortwave instead of a certain length of wire. You can see why here: http://users.tns.net/~bb/antlen.gif This is an old RCA chart showing the behavior of an end-fed wire for lengths to 125 feet. It indicates the many resonances and antiresonances a short wire can exhibit. Since the antenna impedance and the resulting performance vary so markedly with wire length, and because it would be unrealistic to expect all listeners to use one particular length, I think the dummy antenna is just intended to roughly match the input impedance of a typical radio. I'm not sure about consumer radios, but old communications receivers all seem to have a specified input impedance of either 300 or 400 ohms. On the broadcast band, any wire shorter than about 150 feet will look capacitive. It won't exhibit the resonances you see in the chart at shortwave. So even if the wire is shorter than the 100-foot length the dummy antenna seems to model and exhibits a higher capacitive reactance, it won't affect the radio's RF tracking that much. On the broadcast band, most radios seem to use rather loose antenna coupling to minimize mistracking. This allows them to accomodate antennas of various length. There is an interesting discussion about antenna coupling strategies in the Radiotron Designer's Handbook. Brian Article: 229664 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Phil Wheeler Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <44FEC319.9090403@fuse.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 15:02:06 GMT Green cheese. Oops .. wrong forum. Article: 229665 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 11:37:03 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Politicians was "Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ???" References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <8nfrf29pm52kvrf9qicp3sei5muhifk4ac@4ax.com> <44fe29b9$0$6146$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Message-ID: We must always remember the #1 rule for POLITICIANS: "In everything you do, ALWAYS campaign for re-election." A politicians #1 job is to get re-elected! Trying to contribute to the public good means making political decisions, and political decisions make political enemies and possible loss of an election. Therefore, follow the 2nd rule for POLITICIANS: "Say YES to everyone as you campaign, but vote for nothing that is controversial." /s/ DD Tom Ring wrote: > Richard Clark wrote: > >> >> Hi Tom, >> >> I've probably voted for more Libertarians on one ballot than either of >> them in their lives. We need more genetic diversity in the political >> gene pool. Problem is those parties don't work nearly hard enough to >> build a grass-roots. Umm, I should ammend that and say they don't >> work at all to do it. > > > Based on what you said during the last election, I find it tough to > believe you have ever voted anything but the D line. Unless I am mixing > you up with someone else, you went out and bribed street people to vote > 2 years ago. > >> >> Third parties are invariably so self-centered that they want to start >> at the top (notably Lyndon Larouche). Unfortunately, courtesy of W we >> now have an example of how that turns out when the most left wing >> fascist elements put their man in at the top, and the right wing has >> voted in politburo lock-step to advanced the party planks of Leon >> Trotsky. All Larouche needs to learn is how to haul down the flag, >> and start waving bacon. >> > > You are correct to a certain extent on the 3rd party candidates, our > home grown idiot, Jesse "The Mind" (his nickname for himself during the > election) Ventura is a prime example. He "started" a 3rd party here, > and dumped it after he got the governorship. He was as bad a governor > as we've had, but since they've all been Democrats, including the > Republicans, that's not surprising. > > Both of the major parties are corrupt and don't give a rat's ass what > the electorate wants once the votes are cast. There isn't a gnat's > whisker difference between them when you look at what gets into law. On > the court appointees, on the other hand, I might agree they are different. > > I will still vote for anyone but the big 2. Any vote for them is > wasted, any vote for anyone but them will at least show that some of us > want change. > > A vote for a Republicrat is a wasted vote. It just keeps the current > crap in place. > > tom > K0TAR Article: 229666 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: If you had to use CW to save someone's life, would that person die? Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:02:32 -0400 Message-ID: References: <30954.oidi09.d0904.ddoi0@qkd.org> <1d75e7d56dd4aedb7ec57581785cd8a4@mixmaster.it> <6qgcf2lpf7au64su084v3r86t0ea35iqof@4ax.com> On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 19:19:15 -0400, "Dee Flint" wrote: > >"Opus-" wrote in message >news:6qgcf2lpf7au64su084v3r86t0ea35iqof@4ax.com... >> >> I have been watching this thread for a while and now I must join the >> fray. >> >> On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:34:18 -0400, Dave spake >> thusly: >> >>>George Orwell wrote: >>> >>>> Al Klein said: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Eliminating a requirement is dumbing things down. But no one would >>>>>expect you to be able to understand that. >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, let me ask, from the point of view of a potential noob to the >>>> hobby. What use is the code requirements? >>> >>>The 'use' is something you just can't understand. The 'use' is a >>>commitment of >>>time and talent which adds value to the license. The 'use' is investment. >> >> The term "investment" is very misleading. To explain my position, I am >> in agreement that CW testing should go the way of the dinosaurs. I >> have no problem with technical testing, as a way to ensure that >> potential Hams can operate their radios properly, without causing >> interference with neighbors and other Hams world wide. There is also a >> safety factor, with transmitters that can kick out a LOT of >> potentially dangerous power. So, technical exam = good idea. >> Here in Canada, CW is not required IF you achieve at least 80% on your >> technical exam. You need at least 55% WITH CW. >> http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/en/sf08435e.html >> This seems fair, to me. >> >> As for the "investment", not all investments are valuable. I invested >> years of training to be a fully qualified mechanic. There is >> considerable value in that investment, obviously, as it is my bread >> and butter. >> >> But, would my investment be more valuable if, for example, if an >> additional year of carpentry training were required for me to be >> certified? I mean, after all, cars had wood frames and bodies at one >> time so a mechanic would have needed carpentry skills...back in the >> 1930's. Such an investment would be a bad one. The skills would have >> no value and do nothing to enhance my skills as a mechanic. The extra >> investment would have no return with regards to being a mechanic. >> Carpentry would not make me a better mechanic and would not prove to >> the world that I really wanted to be a mechanic. >> >> CW is as useful to todays Hams as carpentry is to a mechanic. A good >> thing to learn, and potentially useful, but should not be a barrier. >> > >This is where your analogy falls apart. CW is currently very useful to >hams. It is in daily use. However, the arguments have already been >presented and those with closed minds have rejected them. it is as usefull as cparpentry to a mechinaic the poster did not state it was sueless is your hubby Fireproof > >Dee D. Flint, N8UZE > http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229667 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: bookburn@yahoo.com Subject: my new antenna Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 09:20:18 -0800 Message-ID: The exciting news I have is that I decided to buy a discone antenna matching my IC PCR1500 wideband receiver. Getting an AOR DS3000A, "capable of covering 75 to 3000 MHz. . . . It is only 2.9 feet (0.87m) tall and weighs 1.55 Lbs. This antenna can be used for transmit on 144, 430, 904 and 1200 MHz ham bands (under 50 watts)." Comes with a cable using N connectors, so now I have to decide on using an adapter going from N to BNC plug or soldering on the BNC connector I need. Or I could probably get a good cable with the right connectors at eBay. Cost from Universal Radio was $126, which seems like a lot, but I did my homework narrowing down the choices from WinRadio, which was the only other covering the range my receiver can pull in, and a couple others with use extending only to 1300 MHz. Just gonna use my rig in an apartment, so the small antenna will just be like a Christmas tree in the corner. Robinson Carusoe Article: 229668 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 10:36:52 -0700 Message-ID: <4q0uf295t367hovtbi0f2htsv7aalhpfp2@4ax.com> References: <12fn25dkodjb96e@corp.supernews.com> <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> <6mtsf2hn1cvsk6p30i734bd555crr5u55b@4ax.com> On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 07:36:13 GMT, Owen Duffy wrote: >I have plotted theoretical forward and reflected power for a detailed >model of RG58C/U at 100MHz with a severely mismatched load to >illustrate the underlying thing that is being measured by a >reflectometer. > >The plots are at http://www.vk1od.net/lost/NN7K.htm . > >Comments? > Hi Owen, Interpretative comment - You state here "theoretical" plots of a model. At the reference you state "indicated forward power, reflected power." To me this implies data taken, not generated from a model's formula - but my interpretation may be a stretch. Data source comment - However, you go to rather elaborate lengths to specify a load of 2+0.5j (sic) and a line of 50.36571-j0.17872. What was the point of injecting reactances here if you simply wish to illustrate the degradation of SWR with feedline loss? They add to the implication of data taken, not generated - except for 5 place resolution at 100 MHz which is (excuse me) absurd. Elaboration of the implications of interpretation and data source comment - Further implying this was data taken at the bench is the declaration "THE REFLECTOMETER IS NOT CALIBRATED FOR THE LINE Zo." Again, my presumption circuits peg on that one because the reactances are so easily removed from emphatic concern if you are in control of the "virtual" workspace. Informational comment - What is supposed to be the total length of line? Was it matched at its input, or simply fed by a transmitter? Picky comment - Graph font sizes are a squint too small. Last, really picky comment - Your copyright notice at the bottom is off by a year. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 229669 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: my new antenna From: Ed References: Message-ID: Date: 06 Sep 2006 18:49:59 GMT > Cost from Universal Radio was $126, which seems like a lot, but I did > my homework narrowing down the choices from WinRadio, which was the > only other covering the range my receiver can pull in, and a couple > others with use extending only to 1300 MHz. Is there anything worth monitoring above 1300 MHz? Just wondering. Ed Article: 229670 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: bookburn@yahoo.com Subject: Re: my new antenna Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 11:49:49 -0800 Message-ID: <639uf2d17inhb683hs6li2tgi838ni2364@4ax.com> References: On 06 Sep 2006 18:49:59 GMT, Ed wrote: > >> Cost from Universal Radio was $126, which seems like a lot, but I did >> my homework narrowing down the choices from WinRadio, which was the >> only other covering the range my receiver can pull in, and a couple >> others with use extending only to 1300 MHz. > > > Is there anything worth monitoring above 1300 MHz? Just wondering. > > > Ed You got me, I don't have the experience to know what I'm doing. Other antennas, more expensive and heavy, can cover from 300-4000 MHz, but I was reacting to negative comments about Radio Shack and a couple others that are a lot less expensive, as low as $30 on eBay. One opinion I read is that those advertised as going only to 1300 MHz can actually function higher. Robinson Carusoe Article: 229671 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) Message-ID: <1jcuf2lkhcp9g3p0i3lbdapeuf90n078st@4ax.com> References: <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> <9osLg.21388$kO3.13134@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 20:54:40 GMT On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 04:45:57 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Jim - NN7K wrote: >> ... but it is >> beyond the ability to have MORE power returned >> to the source, than the source provided > >Did you know a reflection coefficient can be greater >than 1.0? It is true that reflection coefficient can be greater than 1.0. The reflection coefficient *CANNOT* be greater than 1.0 where Zo is purely resistive. So, where a sampler is calibrated (nulled) on a purely resistive load (eg 50+j0) as is most commonly done, it should never show a reflection coefficient greater than 1. A reflectometer calibrated to a resistive load and that shows a "reflected" reading greater than the "set" reading is inaccurate / defective / a poor design. Owen -- Article: 229672 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) References: <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> <9osLg.21388$kO3.13134@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <1jcuf2lkhcp9g3p0i3lbdapeuf90n078st@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 21:01:25 GMT Owen Duffy wrote: > The reflection coefficient *CANNOT* be greater than 1.0 where Zo is > purely resistive. Yes, a reflection coefficient greater than one is caused by the interaction of the Z0 reactance and the load reactance in an effect resembling resonance. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Article: 229673 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) Message-ID: References: <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> <6mtsf2hn1cvsk6p30i734bd555crr5u55b@4ax.com> <4q0uf295t367hovtbi0f2htsv7aalhpfp2@4ax.com> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 21:10:17 GMT On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 10:36:52 -0700, Richard Clark wrote: >On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 07:36:13 GMT, Owen Duffy wrote: > >>I have plotted theoretical forward and reflected power for a detailed >>model of RG58C/U at 100MHz with a severely mismatched load to >>illustrate the underlying thing that is being measured by a >>reflectometer. >> >>The plots are at http://www.vk1od.net/lost/NN7K.htm . >> >>Comments? >> >Hi Owen, Hi Richard, > >Interpretative comment - You state here "theoretical" plots of a >model. At the reference you state "indicated forward power, reflected >power." To me this implies data taken, not generated from a model's >formula - but my interpretation may be a stretch. For avoidance of any doubt, it is entirely theoretical. Line characteristics are based on an RLGC model of the line derived from Belden's published specs for 8262 (RG58C/U). Firstly, I should not have said "indicated forward power, reflected power" as the "indicated" value is a voltage or current, ie the square root of power, it is the deflection on the indicator meter if you like, the meter current on the reflectometer. I have changed the text. The meaning "indicated" is that it is the voltage or current driving a reflectometer meter, calculated from the sampler and line conditions. > >Data source comment - However, you go to rather elaborate lengths to >specify a load of 2+0.5j (sic) and a line of 50.36571-j0.17872. What >was the point of injecting reactances here if you simply wish to >illustrate the degradation of SWR with feedline loss? They add to the >implication of data taken, not generated - except for 5 place >resolution at 100 MHz which is (excuse me) absurd. The stated line Zo precision is a result of lazy cutting and pasting, and it should not be seen to imply that level of accuracy. I have changed it. The load (2+0.5j) is relatively unimportant, but it was a load to create a high VSWR, higher than would be practical for such a feedline at that frequency, extreme to satisfy the people who assert strange things can only be observed at extreme VSWR. The reactance is just a non zero value for no other reason than to test the models behaviour on a complex load. What is significant, is the load VSWR is very high at ~25, I would suggest higher than practical, and therefore extreme. > >Elaboration of the implications of interpretation and data source >comment - Further implying this was data taken at the bench is the >declaration "THE REFLECTOMETER IS NOT CALIBRATED FOR THE LINE Zo." >Again, my presumption circuits peg on that one because the reactances >are so easily removed from emphatic concern if you are in control of >the "virtual" workspace. A reality of lossy lines is that Zo is not purely resistive. A source of instrument error is a sampler that is calibrated for a nominal Zo (being Ro). Fig 1 shows the modelled VSWR (which is what accounts for increased loss, impedance transformation etc), and Fig 2 shows the calculated indication for a reflectometer calibrated or nulled at 50+j0. There is a small difference, and the difference becomes minute at lower VSWR. > >Informational comment - What is supposed to be the total length of >line? Was it matched at its input, or simply fed by a transmitter? The x scale is in wavelengths (as noted on the page), Frequency is 100MHz, line length covered by the graph is therefore about 9m. > >Picky comment - Graph font sizes are a squint too small. Ok, it is a quick cut and paste from Mathcad. For a permanent article, I would try to do better, for I too have aging eyesight! > >Last, really picky comment - Your copyright notice at the bottom is >off by a year. Thanks, I have fixed the footer (which is common for most of the site). The graphs are a quick and dirty presentation, but it is a very detailed transmission line model underneath. I acknowledge there are all sorts of error sources in real life, but keeping sight of the underlying phenomena helps to flag whether measurements look invalid. Back to the original proposition that asserted that changing feedline length can vary measured VSWR dramatically, and that shortening a feedline might improve VSWR, there are reasons why that might happen, but it is not explained solely by what is happening on the inside of the feedline. A possible explanation for example is that the feedline is not decoupled and carries common mode current, and that changing the feedline length changes the load impedance seen by the load end of the transmission line. So, enough from me, can someone produce details of a scenario with a very high load VSWR where there are multiple sweet spots with 1:1 VSWR on a practical line? ("VSWR" here means a property of the line at that point, not what might be read by an unsuitable or defective instrument, and an extremely long line is not "practical".) Thanks... Owen -- Article: 229674 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Felix Subject: Re: RoomCap Antenna Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 20:44:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <85vg52t9207ouotls9esq04ple5f3gc584@4ax.com> <126f94r9bqkac5a@corp.supernews.com> Performance of the ROOMCAP Antenna: There are many antenna books where you find: You need "much wire in the air" in order to obtain an efficient antenna. Short antennas have an efficiency of 1 to 5 percent ... Now the time has come to revise these statements! The radiator length was 3m and the antenna height was 1.5m above ground, mounted on the car, with 60 W PEP on 160m: Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 22:57:42 +0200 From: Heino Held To: hb9abx (at) tiscali.ch Subject: Mobilantenne oder Festantenne Hallo Felix, nach unserem tollen QSO auf 160m waren Peter (DL1BLD) und ich (Heino, DJ5ER) total erstaunt mit welch einer tollen Feldstaerke Du in Bremen angekommen bist. Wie man eine solche Antenne bauen kann moechten wir gerne wissen (auch fuer die anderen KW-Baender). 73 aus Bremen von Peter (DL1BLD) und Heino - DJ5ER Translation: Hello Felix, after our fantastic QSO on 160m we (Peter,DL1BLD) and I (Heino, DJ5ER) we were completely surprised with what a strong field strength you arrived in Bremen. We would like to know how such an antenna can be built (also for the other HF bands). 73 from Bremen .... (QRB = 600 Km) -------------------------------------------------------------------- 5th September 2006: Now I have reduced the length of the radiator to 2m = 1.25% of the wavelength, and I still get the same good reports, as can be seen on the email I received after a few fine contacts last night. Still with 60W PEP, at the border of the city, antenna mounted on the car: Hello Felix. Congratulations for your antenna work. You are the first mobile station on 160 meters for me. Even you are stronger as the Germans on 160 meters. I give you on 1.862 Mhz S 9+15 db in the peak!! The background noise level was S 8 during our QSO Hope to meet you agn for next report and test. Piet Schipper / PA0QRS (near Rotterdam) Schipper mobiele Telecom 2931 LH Krimpen a/d Lek ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Such experiences show, that you can transmit with this small antenna as effective, as with a 60m long wire, up in the air. This is possible with: - Radiating planes and not wires - Differential feeding system - Elaborated grounding system to minimise ground loss - Perfect, low loss matching of antenna radiation resistance With best 73s Felix HB9ABX -- Felix Article: 229675 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "JIMMIE" Subject: Re: Mobile antenna shootout results? Date: 6 Sep 2006 14:43:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1157578986.959359.165460@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H wrote: > "Cecil Moore" wrote in message > news:ywkLg.15347$1f6.8137@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net... > > Roy Lewallen wrote: > >> I don't see any information at that web site about the type of vehicle. > >> Since the vehicle radiates an amount comparable to the antenna, it can > >> have a profound effect on the overall field strength. Were all those > >> antennas mounted on the same type of vehicle? > > > > Those are averages, Roy, not associated with any particular > > vehicle. The average screwdriver beats the average hamstick > > on 75m. Using similar antennas, the larger vehicles (GMC > > pickups) usually beat the smaller vehicles (Honda Civics). > > -- > > 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com > > Makes sense. > Also confirms my experience. > I've also found optimum performance driving the antenna where it's resonant > and matching the (purely resistive) impedances with a transformer. > In this case a simple toroidal autoformer. At 40 meters, a Tarheel > screwdriver with a five-foot whip is about 20 ohms, for example. > 73 > H. First time I noticed this was in the early 70s after I put a CB radio on a school bus camper. The same radio and antenna had been on a Volkswagon before. The difference was very noticable. Article: 229676 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" Subject: Re: Mobile antenna shootout results? Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:59:34 -0500 Message-ID: <12fuh63ggidcja6@corp.supernews.com> References: <30crf2tvdpcflp7vmhnqsplvpcjatatu1p@4ax.com> <12frh3ek1vofgc7@corp.supernews.com> <12ftasjbao28f59@corp.supernews.com> <1157578986.959359.165460@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> "JIMMIE" wrote in message news:1157578986.959359.165460@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H wrote: >> "Cecil Moore" wrote in message >> news:ywkLg.15347$1f6.8137@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net... >> > Roy Lewallen wrote: >> >> I don't see any information at that web site about the type of >> >> vehicle. >> >> Since the vehicle radiates an amount comparable to the antenna, it can >> >> have a profound effect on the overall field strength. Were all those >> >> antennas mounted on the same type of vehicle? >> > >> > Those are averages, Roy, not associated with any particular >> > vehicle. The average screwdriver beats the average hamstick >> > on 75m. Using similar antennas, the larger vehicles (GMC >> > pickups) usually beat the smaller vehicles (Honda Civics). >> > -- >> > 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com >> >> Makes sense. >> Also confirms my experience. >> I've also found optimum performance driving the antenna where it's >> resonant >> and matching the (purely resistive) impedances with a transformer. >> In this case a simple toroidal autoformer. At 40 meters, a Tarheel >> screwdriver with a five-foot whip is about 20 ohms, for example. >> 73 >> H. > > First time I noticed this was in the early 70s after I put a CB radio > on a school bus camper. The same radio and antenna had been on a > Volkswagon before. The difference was very noticable. > That must have been an increase in surface area for the ground side of things of something like an order of magnitude. I bet it was a striking difference. 73 H. Article: 229677 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? (as promised) Message-ID: References: Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 22:15:46 GMT On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:22:37 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >Owen Duffy wrote: >> The plots are at http://www.vk1od.net/lost/NN7K.htm . >> Comments? > >Good stuff, Owen. Can the average SWR meter be >calibrated for the actual Z0 rather than for >50+j0 ohms? Typical samplers derive a voltage sample and a current sample in a small region approaching a point for all intents and purposes. The current sample is converted to a voltage (by passing it through an impedance, and added algebraically to the voltage sample. The resultant RF voltage is rectified and fed to a voltmeter. If the impedance used to convert the current sample to a voltage is purely resistive, and assuming the sampling process does not introduce any differential phase shifts, then such an instrument can only be nulled for a purely resistive Zo. If that conversion impedance were complex and adjustable, then it would be possible to null the instrument on practical values of complex Zo. However, under a linear RLGC model, Zo varies with frequency, both Xo and to a lesser extent Ro (see the graphs at http://www.vk1od.net/tl/tllc.php ). So, nulling the instrument on nominal Zo (Ro) makes sense, but just keep in mind a small contribution to error and an explanation for why measurements might not agree with a Zo=Ro model. I do recall someone insisting that reflection coefficient cannot be greater than 1 because a Bird 43 would never measure such. He was right, the Bird 43 should never indicate such, but not because reflection coefficient cannot be greater than 1 in the general case, but that the sampler is calibrated (nulled) for a Zo=Ro scenario. The discussion about using a 50ohm VSWR meter in a practical line where Zo is not exactly 50 ohms was just to acknowledge that there is error introduced, that it can be estimated, and that it is low at low VSWR values and will be likely to be lost in other measurement noise due to lots of other variables. Owen -- Article: 229678 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: my new antenna From: Ed References: <639uf2d17inhb683hs6li2tgi838ni2364@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: 06 Sep 2006 22:55:06 GMT >> Is there anything worth monitoring above 1300 MHz? Just wondering. >> >> >> Ed > > You got me, I don't have the experience to know what I'm doing. Other > antennas, more expensive and heavy, can cover from 300-4000 MHz, but I > was reacting to negative comments about Radio Shack and a couple > others that are a lot less expensive, as low as $30 on eBay. One > opinion I read is that those advertised as going only to 1300 MHz can > actually function higher. > > Robinson Carusoe > Well, had I responded earlier, I'd have suggested the Diamond DJ- 130.... well made, goes for about $100, but as you have mentioned already, only is spec'd for an upper end of 1300 MHz. But then again, I can not think of any voice traffic that you would find beyond about 900MHz area, anyway. Good luck. Ed Article: 229679 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim - NN7K Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? appology References: <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> <9osLg.21388$kO3.13134@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <1jcuf2lkhcp9g3p0i3lbdapeuf90n078st@4ax.com> Message-ID: <1NILg.2030$MF1.1508@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 23:24:45 GMT Thanks, Owen, and all and sorry to cause so much grief. I fall on my sword! Have believed 99.44% of what was in the old VHF'er Magazine, as was started by a consortium of many engineers , originally by Doug Demaw, W8HHS, as editor, and finally Loren Parks,K7AAD, an ex engineer from Tektronix, and covered the Gamut of VHF, UHF, and Microwave-- to early satelites and Moonbounce. Was instrumental to me getting on air, many moons ago. Tho much I've learned (and much I've forgotten!) over the years. I have built tuned coaxial finals, ect., and from former job, haveing to use tuned lines (mainly,to couple cavities together , and then tune them to use on same antenna. IF those lines changed, the things detunewhen you remove your test equipment! Also, I get a little bull headded after all theses years! Stuck on Stupid, if you might! Owen- your charts are quite illuminating! and, finely, The meter referred to , if memory serves correct, was made by SWAN, just before they went out of business (made for the "CB" trade, more than amateur radio. and the lines used in it were on a Printed Circuit board! and this probably before they knew how to get the correct impedence , on a p.c. board! I shall return to my lair-- Jim NN7K Owen Duffy wrote: > On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 04:45:57 GMT, Cecil Moore > wrote: > >> Jim - NN7K wrote: >>> ... but it is >>> beyond the ability to have MORE power returned >>> to the source, than the source provided >> Did you know a reflection coefficient can be greater >> than 1.0? > > It is true that reflection coefficient can be greater than 1.0. > > The reflection coefficient *CANNOT* be greater than 1.0 where Zo is > purely resistive. > > So, where a sampler is calibrated (nulled) on a purely resistive load > (eg 50+j0) as is most commonly done, it should never show a reflection > coefficient greater than 1. A reflectometer calibrated to a resistive > load and that shows a "reflected" reading greater than the "set" > reading is inaccurate / defective / a poor design. > > Owen > -- Article: 229680 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: bookburn@yahoo.com Subject: Re: my new antenna Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 16:12:52 -0800 Message-ID: <6qouf2t8bkqqirc4dk3nt40nbsilo9v4bj@4ax.com> References: <639uf2d17inhb683hs6li2tgi838ni2364@4ax.com> On 06 Sep 2006 22:55:06 GMT, Ed wrote: > >>> Is there anything worth monitoring above 1300 MHz? Just wondering. >>> >>> >>> Ed >> >> You got me, I don't have the experience to know what I'm doing. Other >> antennas, more expensive and heavy, can cover from 300-4000 MHz, but I >> was reacting to negative comments about Radio Shack and a couple >> others that are a lot less expensive, as low as $30 on eBay. One >> opinion I read is that those advertised as going only to 1300 MHz can >> actually function higher. >> >> Robinson Carusoe >> > > > Well, had I responded earlier, I'd have suggested the Diamond DJ- >130.... well made, goes for about $100, but as you have mentioned >already, only is spec'd for an upper end of 1300 MHz. But then again, >I can not think of any voice traffic that you would find beyond about >900MHz area, anyway. Good luck. > > > Ed One thing I didn't mention is that I have a Bearcat 860XLT scanner, and the discone I got is said to function well with that. Yes, the Diamond gets good reviews, too. Robinson Carusoe Article: 229681 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Danny Richardson Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? appology Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 17:43:33 -0700 Message-ID: References: <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> <9osLg.21388$kO3.13134@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <1jcuf2lkhcp9g3p0i3lbdapeuf90n078st@4ax.com> <1NILg.2030$MF1.1508@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net> On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 23:24:45 GMT, Jim - NN7K wrote: >Thanks, Owen, and all and sorry to cause so much >grief. I fall on my sword! Jim, I have been following this thread for some time and wish to complement you on your response. Normally, on the NG egos seem bigger than brains and seldom does anyone admit making an error. You are to be complemented for you forthrightness. It speaks highly of your character - a rare quality in this day and age. Very 73, Danny, K6MHE Article: 229682 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 20:21:06 -0500 From: Tom Ring Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <8nfrf29pm52kvrf9qicp3sei5muhifk4ac@4ax.com> <44fe29b9$0$6146$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <26fsf2lf9cfh5qt3nb5lme4q7orgqrnsn6@4ax.com> Message-ID: <44ff7402$0$6146$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Richard Clark wrote: > > Tom, Tom, Tom, > > Is there some Libertarian weed you've been smoking? You can read tea > leaves (leave aside ballots, because only Diebold machines can report > that) on the basis of what is "said?" I'm afraid you are running a > distant last against votes penned by me for low these 36 years. > > As far as street people, no, I listened to them gush on about how they > were going to vote for W. One fellow came up to me and leaned on my > ear for an hour telling me how he was a soldier of fortune for > Milosivic (OK, so I misspelled Ossama) in Bosnia (or Herzogovina or > Toxiana) and fully expected to see W in another term. Then he and the > rest would try to bum change (if that is what you mean by bribe), or a > cigarette, and then left their empties nearby to take a dump in the > alley. > > They only differ from Rush Limburger by not being as fat, and they > couldn't afford to shop doctors for prescription dope. > > What was supremely ironic is that the state Republican party fought > tooth and nail to evict them from the voting booth. Talk about taking > the poison pill for the sake of political purity, this is like a Jim > Jones kool-aid party to me. > > No doubt, two years hence in the next election cycle I will be > remembered as volunteering to hand out cyanide pills at the polling > station. Would you care to be a reference so I can apply early? > > 73's > Richard Clark, KB7QHC Richard, Richard, Richard. Talking points, talking points, talking points. All you Republicrats have is talking points. You avoided even responding to anything I said. Typical Republicrat. And you seem to be stuck on "smoking" things. Do you have a problem you'd like to talk about? tom K0TAR Article: 229683 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim - NN7K Subject: Re: my new antenna References: <639uf2d17inhb683hs6li2tgi838ni2364@4ax.com> <6qouf2t8bkqqirc4dk3nt40nbsilo9v4bj@4ax.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 01:23:31 GMT bookburn@yahoo.com wrote: > On 06 Sep 2006 22:55:06 GMT, Ed > wrote: > >>>> Is there anything worth monitoring above 1300 MHz? Just wondering. Depends where you are at: Have a friend , has a 10 GHz beacon, in Puget Sound, as well as a 1296 Beacon ( W7HR) and gets copied out to couple hundred miles (or so), and occasionally, much further away (these, as he described, are aimed at Mt. Rainier). Long haul by Tropo ducting, ect. Mighrt have others running by now! Jim NN7K Article: 229684 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Are all RG8s created equal? Message-ID: <2tsuf2pss6shvphinj1v3c6lc64t9sjdrd@4ax.com> References: <2sepf258grd31lb3e0bngmnlitv2n7o5e2@4ax.com> <9osLg.21388$kO3.13134@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> <1jcuf2lkhcp9g3p0i3lbdapeuf90n078st@4ax.com> <1NILg.2030$MF1.1508@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 01:40:26 GMT On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 23:24:45 GMT, Jim - NN7K wrote: >Thanks, Owen, and all and sorry to cause so much >grief. I fall on my sword! Have believed 99.44% No need for that Jim, the discussion has challenged your thinking (and mine), and that is part of the learning process. >of what was in the old VHF'er Magazine, as was IMHO, it is not a very good article. Forward Voltage, Forward Current, Reflected Voltage, Reflected Current, Current, Voltage, Zo, VSWR, impedance and propagation constant are all relevant, related but different and the article doesn't adequately draw the distinction. Indicators might sample one or more of voltage, or current, or directional power. They are all different, a voltage sensor or a current sensor alone at a single point will not allow you to determine VSWR, a pair of directional power sensors will. Your Lecher lines example needs a voltage or current sensor, not a directional power sensor (which won't work), whereas a VSWR meter needs a pair of directional power sensors, not a voltage or current sensor (which won't work). My view is that the article is imprecise, confused and contains bad advice. It does play to one of the archetypal myths of ham radio! I am considering whether I should create some more graphs of current, voltage, and impedance etc that illustrate how those behave, and incorporate it in a more complete permanent article on my web site. (IIRC there were some graphs of voltage, current, phase in Fred Terman's book, but I am thinking of going a little beyond that.) Thanks for the response Jim. 73 Owen -- Article: 229685 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 20:39:29 -0500 From: Tom Ring Subject: Re: my new antenna References: <639uf2d17inhb683hs6li2tgi838ni2364@4ax.com> <6qouf2t8bkqqirc4dk3nt40nbsilo9v4bj@4ax.com> Message-ID: <44ff7851$0$1006$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Jim - NN7K wrote: > > > bookburn@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 06 Sep 2006 22:55:06 GMT, Ed >> wrote: >> >>>>> Is there anything worth monitoring above 1300 MHz? Just wondering. > > Depends where you are at: Have a friend , has a > 10 GHz beacon, in Puget Sound, as well as a 1296 > Beacon ( W7HR) and gets copied out to couple > hundred miles (or so), and occasionally, much > further away (these, as he described, are aimed > at Mt. Rainier). Long haul by Tropo ducting, ect. > Mighrt have others running by now! Jim NN7K We are looking for some possible rain scatter propogation from VE3KRP here in the Twin Cities on 10 Gigs this evening. Might happen, might not. tom K0TAR Article: 229686 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mark@kb9rqz.com Subject: Re: How about supporting an 85% passing score for written exams? Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 21:39:50 -0400 Message-ID: <02uuf214gsrn6c19k50nu5jaq8laj7fgpv@4ax.com> References: On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 23:43:28 GMT, Slow Code wrote: > >Sounds like a good idea to me. why? serious SC if you can convince it would much difference I will support after the R&O ending code testing comes out > >SC http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Article: 229687 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim - NN7K Subject: Re: my new antenna References: <639uf2d17inhb683hs6li2tgi838ni2364@4ax.com> <6qouf2t8bkqqirc4dk3nt40nbsilo9v4bj@4ax.com> <44ff7851$0$1006$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 01:50:23 GMT The ONE thing, in 40 years (or so! ) playing with higher freqs is -- ANYTHING is POSSIBLE !! Good Luck, & 73 Jim > > We are looking for some possible rain scatter propogation from VE3KRP > here in the Twin Cities on 10 Gigs this evening. Might happen, might not. > > tom > K0TAR Article: 229688 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Yuri Blanarovich" References: Subject: Re: Reg Edwards (G4FGQ) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 19:05:39 -0400 Sorry to learn of Reg's passing, he will be missed, one less stimulus on this NG. May the ethernal sky be his new home, where the RF flows freely and antennas are not needed. RIP Reg and prayers to you and family. 73 OM Yuri Blanarovich, K3BU, VE3BMV Article: 229689 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 22:16:03 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <8nfrf29pm52kvrf9qicp3sei5muhifk4ac@4ax.com> <44fe29b9$0$6146$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <26fsf2lf9cfh5qt3nb5lme4q7orgqrnsn6@4ax.com> <44ff7402$0$6146$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Message-ID: Tom Ring wrote: > Richard Clark wrote: > >> >> Tom, Tom, Tom, > > Richard, Richard, Richard. Tom,-Richard, Tom-Richard, Tom-Richard.... In this imperfect world, one is perhaps foolish to expect perfection. I don't-you shouldn't. While we all accuse each other of being Democreeps, or Republi-cant's, or even perhaps the ultimate pejorative - Liberal, it is perhaps a more realistic expectation to just settle for competency. That would be kewl. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229690 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 22:18:53 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <8nfrf29pm52kvrf9qicp3sei5muhifk4ac@4ax.com> <44fe29b9$0$6146$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <26fsf2lf9cfh5qt3nb5lme4q7orgqrnsn6@4ax.com> Message-ID: Tom Donaly wrote: > > The drunken homeless, as opposed to the merely homeless, talk a > conservative line because they think most people are conservative, I just kind of thought that was how they were, Tom! - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229691 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 22:20:18 -0400 From: Mike Coslo Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <44FEC319.9090403@fuse.net> Message-ID: jawod wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: > >> Dave wrote: >> >>> Libertarian = Anarchy rules! >> >> >> >> From: http://www.lp.org/article_85.shtml >> >> What is a Libertarian? >> > I think the Barney Protocol needs to be reviewed: > > > Barney Miller is a socialist > > Barney Fife is a fascist > > ***Barney Rubble is a libertarian*** Doggonit, soda out the nose and a mess to clean up! Good one! > > and (this just in)... > > Barney Google has joined the Republican Party - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Article: 229692 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 21:30:39 -0500 From: Tom Ring Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? References: <8AqKg.5006$tU.2108@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <99-dnVLzerIZo2fZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com> <44FB9462.40506@fuse.net> <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <44FEC319.9090403@fuse.net> Message-ID: <44ff8450$0$1017$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> Mike Coslo wrote: >> and (this just in)... >> >> Barney Google has joined the Republican Party > > > - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Sorry, not possible! The google.com boys are way left of the Ben and Jerry crowd. ;) tom K0TAR Article: 229693 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Richard Clark Subject: Re: WHAT'S IT MADE FROM ??? Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 20:26:24 -0700 Message-ID: References: <3l5pf29bui48s9pb983cosfs4dv7uf3pq9@4ax.com> <44fced54$0$6152$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <8nfrf29pm52kvrf9qicp3sei5muhifk4ac@4ax.com> <44fe29b9$0$6146$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <26fsf2lf9cfh5qt3nb5lme4q7orgqrnsn6@4ax.com> <44ff7402$0$6146$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 20:21:06 -0500, Tom Ring wrote: >All you Republicrats have is talking points. Let's see, you've swung me from voting a straight democratic ticket (how could you possibly know) to Republican (crat notwithstanding) and you wonder why I ask about your smoking habit? >You avoided even responding to anything I said. Typical Republicrat. "Typical" is fulfilled by the source, you brought out the usual Karl Rove baiting technique about bribing street people, I responded at quite some length specifically and factually. Do you suffer from Teflon memory (Libertarian short attention span) disorder? >And you seem to be stuck on "smoking" things. Do you have a problem >you'd like to talk about? W's crack habit? We've gone from a president that didn't inhale to one who couldn't exhale. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC