Article: 51313 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:57:40 -0400 From: VOA SWLer Subject: ARRL Maryland State Convention this Saturday, July 29, in Hagerstown, Message-ID: ARRL Maryland State Convention this Saturday, July 29, in Hagerstown, MD. For info, click on: Article: 51314 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: O-Dawg Subject: Batavia, NY hamfest Message-ID: <1qlic2lj1uvqlra78rm8c7ro930enfdu77@4ax.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 00:49:16 GMT 29 Jul 2006 Batavia Hamfest 2006 sponsored by the Genesee Radio Amateurs in Alexander, NY, at the Alexander Firemens Grounds, 10708 Route 98. http://www.geocities.com/gram_radio_club/page7.html Talk-In: 147.285 +, Contact: Rob McLean, KC2MHH, Email: kc2mhh@verizon.net Article: 51315 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: oagnengi@email.adr Subject: STOP what you’re doing - It doesn’t work! 8QX8 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:54:54 GMT Always staying on the cutting edge of the latest trends and effective advertising methods, Kiosk offers only the best and time worthy promotional tools. 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Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 06:59:37 GMT I am looking into the possibility of buying a kit to assemble, but have come across this statement in the warranty Ts and Cs: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The use of acid-core solder, water-soluble flux solder, or any corrosive or conductive flux or solvent will void this warranty in its entirety. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My current reel of no-name solder is several years old, and I have no idea whether it complies or not (but I suspect not). What kind of solder should one use these days? -- 73 Ian, G3NRW g3nrw@yahoo.co.uk Article: 51318 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: "The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK" Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: 30 Jul 2006 01:31:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: Ian Wade wrote: > What kind of solder should one use these days? Find out whether the components are RoHS compliant. If they aren't, your old solder will do. If they are, you'll need lead-free solder. 73 Mike G4KFK Article: 51319 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc Message-ID: <+j5V0YCE6GzEFwWq@secornwall.com> From: Trevor Day Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? References: Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 08:32:20 GMT In message , Ian Wade writes >I am looking into the possibility of buying a kit to assemble, but have >come across this statement in the warranty Ts and Cs: > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >The use of acid-core solder, water-soluble flux solder, or any >corrosive or conductive flux or solvent will void this warranty in its >entirety. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >My current reel of no-name solder is several years old, and I have no >idea whether it complies or not (but I suspect not). > >What kind of solder should one use these days? > Hi Ian, It may or may not help, but this is a subject that comes up regularly on the Elecraft reflector. So much so they have a separate section on the web site. See if this helps: http://www.elecraft.com/solder_sources.htm Trev G3ZYY -- Trevor Day UKSMG #217 www.uksmg.org Article: 51320 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc Message-ID: From: Trevor Day Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? References: Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 08:35:39 GMT In message <1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK writes > >Ian Wade wrote: >> What kind of solder should one use these days? > >Find out whether the components are RoHS compliant. >If they aren't, your old solder will do. >If they are, you'll need lead-free solder. > >73 >Mike G4KFK > Seems you need to ignore my link Ian if thats the case. Sri Trev -- Trevor Day UKSMG #217 www.uksmg.org Article: 51321 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: "The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK" Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: 30 Jul 2006 02:04:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1154250284.199926.260870@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: Trevor Day wrote: > Seems you need to ignore my link Ian if thats the case. Or, if the kit came from the USA, he could ignore what I said :-) The Murraycans aren't in the EEC (or whatever it's called this week), so I don't s'pose they're too worried about complying with RoHS. 73 Mike G4KFK Article: 51322 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: Bob Bob Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? References: Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 08:43:37 -0500 Hi Ian I suspect they are talking about plumbers soldering methods that use such fluxes etc. Rosin core or the more current electronic fluxes will be fine, which is probably what you roll is. There is also the move to lead free. These joints always look real bad! Cheers Bob VK2YQA (who works in a production RF/SMD environment..) Ian Wade wrote: > What kind of solder should one use these days? > From \(.¿.\) Mon Jul 31 00:58:30 EDT 2006 Article: 51323 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 12:55:54 -0500 Reply-To: "G8ASO <\(.¿.\)> © T" <70trees@goodbuddy.com> From: "G8ASO <\(.¿.\)> © T" <70trees@goodbuddy.com> Newsgroups: uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc References: <1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 18:55:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Message-ID: Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.178.224.175 X-Trace: sv3-EkwYXT/Oqc8lApUShyPGEkTYW5WPDnpoP8HCslk1D3ojbfb+HWVDJQ4osEzrksSQc0x3Yh7eJNHzOVY!NTCFE9S1buWGxlpK/4BVhbznjza7aeP0/3OksyWhlVT26113w9DEixT4gmaFld1yLtAf5ibuXQRz!LbhYs0p5ll3gYgZp+ytttU2/E2A= X-Complaints-To: abuse@dsl.pipex.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@dsl.pipex.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.32 Path: news.unc.edu!elk.ncren.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!news4.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local02.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.pipex.net!news.pipex.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news0.isis.unc.edu uk.radio.amateur:279747 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:51323 Lead free solder is impossible as solder is an alloy of lead and tin. Anything else would not be solder! "The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK" wrote in message news:1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > Ian Wade wrote: >> What kind of solder should one use these days? > > Find out whether the components are RoHS compliant. > If they aren't, your old solder will do. > If they are, you'll need lead-free solder. > > 73 > Mike G4KFK > Article: 51324 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: Prometheus Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 19:31:46 +0100 Message-ID: References: In article , "G8ASO <(.¿.)> © T" <70trees@goodbuddy.com> writes > >"The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK" wrote in >message news:1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >> >> Ian Wade wrote: >>> What kind of solder should one use these days? >> >> Find out whether the components are RoHS compliant. >> If they aren't, your old solder will do. >> If they are, you'll need lead-free solder. >> >Lead free solder is impossible as solder is an alloy of lead and tin. >Anything else would not be solder! Wrong again, see: -- Ian G8ILZ Article: 51325 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: "huLLy" References: <1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:08:56 +0100 Message-ID: <6tKdnStXefRXnlDZRVnygg@giganews.com> Prometheus wrote: >>> >> Lead free solder is impossible as solder is an alloy of lead and tin. >> Anything else would not be solder! > > Wrong again, see: > > > And you will probably need to replace your soldering iron too. -- huLLy Tel: 07976 123278 villageidiot(at)sheepandmeths.co.uk ICQ 136-987-925 Article: 51326 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: Prometheus Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 21:45:18 +0100 Message-ID: References: In article <6tKdnStXefRXnlDZRVnygg@giganews.com>, huLLy writes >Prometheus wrote: >>>> >>> Lead free solder is impossible as solder is an alloy of lead and tin. >>> Anything else would not be solder! >> >> Wrong again, see: >> >> >> > >And you will probably need to replace your soldering iron too. Unless it's a decent TCP in which case you might only need more mass rather than a higher temperature. One important note; do not mix solder types. -- Ian G8ILZ Article: 51327 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: "The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK" Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: 30 Jul 2006 13:51:35 -0700 Message-ID: <1154292695.094094.3630@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> References: G8ASO <(.=BF.)> =A9 T wrote: > Lead free solder is impossible as solder is an alloy of lead and tin. > Anything else would not be solder! OED "Solder. n. Fusible alloy used to join less fusible metals or wires." Article: 51328 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 22:38:46 +0100 From: Dave Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? References: Message-ID: Ian Wade wrote: > I am looking into the possibility of buying a kit to assemble, but have > come across this statement in the warranty Ts and Cs: > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > The use of acid-core solder, water-soluble flux solder, or any corrosive > or conductive flux or solvent will void this warranty in its entirety. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > My current reel of no-name solder is several years old, and I have no > idea whether it complies or not (but I suspect not). > > What kind of solder should one use these days? While lead free solder is the norm now... The use of solder with lead is still permitted for... Private use. Repair of circuit boards that have leaded solder on them and a few other situations that I can't recall. Lead based solder looks likely to be on the market for some time to come. Dave Article: 51329 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: Steve Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 23:37:54 +0100 Message-ID: References: <1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 01:31:49 -0700, The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK wrote: > > Ian Wade wrote: >> What kind of solder should one use these days? > > Find out whether the components are RoHS compliant. > If they aren't, your old solder will do. > If they are, you'll need lead-free solder. I thought it was the other way round - leaded solder is ok with all component types but lead free solder shouldn't be used with components where the leads have lead in the plating. All the manufacturers I've checked with say leaded solder is ok with RoHS compliant parts. Steve Article: 51330 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: "The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK" Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: 30 Jul 2006 23:45:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1154328307.166460.260670@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: Steve wrote: > I thought it was the other way round - leaded solder is ok with all > component types but lead free solder shouldn't be used with components > where the leads have lead in the plating. All the manufacturers I've > checked with say leaded solder is ok with RoHS compliant parts. >From a compliance point of view, you can't mix either type, either way around. If you use leaded solder to assemble (or repair) an RoHS compliant device, it won't be RoHS compliant. Article: 51331 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: "MAB" References: <1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:59:04 +0100 Message-ID: <44cdc654$0$635$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk> "The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK" wrote in message news:1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > Ian Wade wrote: >> What kind of solder should one use these days? > > Find out whether the components are RoHS compliant. > If they aren't, your old solder will do. > If they are, you'll need lead-free solder. > > 73 > Mike G4KFK > I don't think there is any practical reason why you cannot use traditional lead based solder on RoHS components, is there? Its just another barmy EU regulation to make our lives difficult. There may be aguements the other way round - lead free solder requires a significantly higher temperature and components which are not specified to work with it could be damaged during assembly - I guess... Martin (G8FXC) Article: 51332 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: "The Magnum" References: <1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <44cdc654$0$635$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk> Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:16:42 +0100 Message-ID: <44cdcad3$0$2964$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> "MAB" wrote in message news:44cdc654$0$635$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk... > > "The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK" wrote in > message news:1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > > > Ian Wade wrote: > >> What kind of solder should one use these days? > > > > Find out whether the components are RoHS compliant. > > If they aren't, your old solder will do. > > If they are, you'll need lead-free solder. > > > > 73 > > Mike G4KFK > > > > I don't think there is any practical reason why you cannot use traditional > lead based solder on RoHS components, is there? Its just another barmy EU > regulation to make our lives difficult. There may be augments the other way > round - lead free solder requires a significantly higher temperature and > components which are not specified to work with it could be damaged during > assembly - I guess... > > Martin (G8FXC) It's all down to interfering busybodies who demand that anything considered harmless must be curtailed. Fumes from leaded solder especially in a confined area can be considered highly toxic and if 'sniffed in' in large amounts can send you loopy at best and kill you at worst. Therefore RoSH was dreamt up by someone with far too much time on their hands to try to make everyone's life safer. Makes you wonder why they don't concern themselves with the biggest killer of all time.. smoking.. well, the answer to that is simple... MONEY. 73' Graham (Living in a molly-coddled world. British Bulldog in the playground?...oooh noo far too dangerous, the kids may bump into each other.. shock horror) -- -.-. -... / .-. .- -.. .. --- Radio is only a Hobby. Don't let it rule your life... 73/51 - Graham, 26-Golf Charlie-19 (www.open-channel.co.uk) Article: 51333 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 11:20:21 +0200 From: know code Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? References: <1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <44cdc654$0$635$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk> <44cdcad3$0$2964$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> Message-ID: <44cdcb6d$0$28156$dbd49001@news.wanadoo.nl> The Magnum wrote: > Fumes from leaded solder especially in a > confined area can be considered highly toxic and if 'sniffed in' in large > amounts can send you loopy at best and kill you at worst. I didn't know Beanie done a lot of construction? And, considering we haven't heard from him in a while.... hmm? Article: 51334 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: "The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK" Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: 31 Jul 2006 03:08:17 -0700 Message-ID: <1154340497.472816.198000@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> References: MAB wrote: > I don't think there is any practical reason why you cannot use traditional > lead based solder on RoHS components, is there? Of course - from a practical viewpoint, it will work fine. >From a compliance viewpoint though, you end up with a product labelled to the effect that it does not contain lead (or other harmful substances), that does in fact contain lead. Article: 51335 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: "The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK" Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: 31 Jul 2006 03:43:41 -0700 Message-ID: <1154342621.057977.98710@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: The Magnum wrote: > It's all down to interfering busybodies who demand that anything considered > harmless must be curtailed. Fumes from leaded solder especially in a > confined area can be considered highly toxic and if 'sniffed in' in large > amounts can send you loopy at best and kill you at worst. Shirley the fumes are from the flux, not the solder? RoHS is to address heavy metals in post-consumer waste re-entering the environment via landfill sites. Article: 51336 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: Steve Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:39:12 +0100 Message-ID: References: <1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1154328307.166460.260670@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 23:45:07 -0700, The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK wrote: > > Steve wrote: >> I thought it was the other way round - leaded solder is ok with all >> component types but lead free solder shouldn't be used with components >> where the leads have lead in the plating. All the manufacturers I've >> checked with say leaded solder is ok with RoHS compliant parts. > >>From a compliance point of view, you can't mix either type, either way > around. If you use leaded solder to assemble (or repair) an RoHS > compliant device, it won't be RoHS compliant. Yes - I meant my comment only about the metallurgy of the joint. As I understand it, private individuals aren't expected to abide by RoHS and it won't be applied to personal (as opposed to business) sales. Steve Article: 51337 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: "Roger" Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 07:34:50 -0500 Message-ID: References: <1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1154328307.166460.260670@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Wel,, it depends on which Pb-Free alloy is chosen. There is no industry-agreed standard composition. In general there are two competing systems: Tin-Silver (Sn-Ag) and Tin-Bismith (Sn-Bi). If Sn-Ag is used, then mixing standard Lead-Tin (Pb-Sn)with it is OK. If Sn-Bi is used, however, there is a low-melting ternary Pb-Sn-Bi compound that can cause you problems. Not all electronic component manufacturers have decided against Sn-Bi (it costs less than Sn-Ag). So the key is determining you have Sn-Ag solder on your Pb-Free component (or in some cases, no solder on the component). Roger "Steve" wrote in message news:pan.2006.07.31.11.39.11.958531@home.now... > On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 23:45:07 -0700, The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As > G4KFK wrote: > >> >> Steve wrote: >>> I thought it was the other way round - leaded solder is ok with all >>> component types but lead free solder shouldn't be used with components >>> where the leads have lead in the plating. All the manufacturers I've >>> checked with say leaded solder is ok with RoHS compliant parts. >> >>>From a compliance point of view, you can't mix either type, either way >> around. If you use leaded solder to assemble (or repair) an RoHS >> compliant device, it won't be RoHS compliant. > > Yes - I meant my comment only about the metallurgy of the joint. As I > understand it, private individuals aren't expected to abide by RoHS and it > won't be applied to personal (as opposed to business) sales. > > Steve > Article: 51338 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: "The Magnum" References: <1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <44cdc654$0$635$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk> <44cdcad3$0$2964$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> <1154342621.057977.98710@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:55:27 +0100 Message-ID: <44ce365d$0$2960$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> "The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK" wrote in message news:1154342621.057977.98710@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > The Magnum wrote: > > It's all down to interfering busybodies who demand that anything considered > > harmless must be curtailed. Fumes from leaded solder especially in a > > confined area can be considered highly toxic and if 'sniffed in' in large > > amounts can send you loopy at best and kill you at worst. > > Shirley the fumes are from the flux, not the solder? Yes there are fumes from the flux, obviously. The lead content in the fumes >from molten solder is still toxic. It is another of the reasons (apart from cost) that you won't find lead pipe in new houses or lead based paint. > RoHS is to address heavy metals in post-consumer waste re-entering the > environment via landfill sites. Yes it is. But I thought the waste side of the proposal was covered by the WEEE regulations and the RoSH covered the fact it is a Hazardous material to use .. period.(Please excuse the crass Americanism ;o) 73' Graham -- -.-. -... / .-. .- -.. .. --- Radio is only a Hobby. Don't let it rule your life... 73/51 - Graham, 26-Golf Charlie-19 (www.open-channel.co.uk) Article: 51339 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: Steve Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 18:29:35 +0100 Message-ID: References: <1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1154328307.166460.260670@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 07:34:50 -0500, Roger wrote: > Wel,, it depends on which Pb-Free alloy is chosen. There is no > industry-agreed standard composition. > > In general there are two competing systems: > > Tin-Silver (Sn-Ag) and Tin-Bismith (Sn-Bi). > > If Sn-Ag is used, then mixing standard Lead-Tin (Pb-Sn)with it is OK. > If Sn-Bi is used, however, there is a low-melting ternary Pb-Sn-Bi compound > that can cause you problems. Not all electronic component manufacturers > have decided against Sn-Bi (it costs less than Sn-Ag). > > So the key is determining you have Sn-Ag solder on your Pb-Free component > (or in some cases, no solder on the component). Thanks for that - I haven't encountered anything with Bismuth yet. Plain tin plating seems most common amongst what I handle. Steve Article: 51340 of rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: Steve Subject: Re: What's the story on solder these days? Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 22:51:58 +0100 Message-ID: References: <1154248309.078278.68630@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <44cdc654$0$635$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk> <44cdcad3$0$2964$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere.com> <1154342621.057977.98710@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 03:43:41 -0700, The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK wrote: > > The Magnum wrote: >> It's all down to interfering busybodies who demand that anything considered >> harmless must be curtailed. Fumes from leaded solder especially in a >> confined area can be considered highly toxic and if 'sniffed in' in large >> amounts can send you loopy at best and kill you at worst. > > Shirley the fumes are from the flux, not the solder? > > RoHS is to address heavy metals in post-consumer waste re-entering the > environment via landfill sites. Which makes it very frustrating that the net aimed at mobile phones and MP3 players turned into a sieve to encompass low volume long life items in fixed installations and even church organs.... Steve