From igg@igg.com Fri Jun 4 11:41:40 1999 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 06:49:27 -0500 From: Allan Balliett To: osalt@teleport.com Subject: Re: So what is a spader? Eugene Canales of Ferarri Tractor will be a featured speaker at the Oct 1-3 Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Conf. which is held outside of Baltimore-Washington in Charles Town. With Joel Salatin, his presentations will center around the production, harvesting, and processing of grains on a small holding. He will have a lot of small, appropriate equipment from Europe as part of his workshops. More info, as it is avail will appear at www.igg.com/bdnow. (or email me to be on the direct info list!) We also have one of his spaders! It's wonderful if you can find a tractor that will pull slow enough. Everyone should be aware that Imants sells a 'spader' which is a spader in name alone and does not have the action that makes the Italian machines so wonderful. Allan Balliett Claymont Farm CSA BIODYNAMICS Now! temp mailing address: 207 W. High Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 Voice Mail: (304) 724-6763 FAX Forwarding (815) 550-6067 >Sue Andersen wrote: >"How's a spader work? What's it look like? Will it turn in a cover crop >and incorporate compost? Does it leave you with a good enough seedbed >for fine seeded crops? What HP does it require? Where do you get 'em?" > >A spader looks a lot like a rotary tiller, but instead of rotating >"tines" it has "spades" on a double cam mounting. The spades look like >small shovel blades - shaped like the Heinz food company shield in their >logo - and move in a mostly up and dowm motion, with a little tilt at >the bottom of the stroke. > >The effect is like pushing a shovel (hence the name shove-l) straight >into the ground, rocking the handle back and forth, then drawing the >shovel back out. All without turning the soil over. The action opens up >compacted soil and allows air and water in, while doing minimal damage >to soil organisms and microlife. > >It won't "turn in" a cover crop, but it will chop it up some and push >some of it down into the soil, where it will break down better then >sitting on top. It will incorporate compost, as loose material on top of >the soil falls into the openings made as the spader travels along the >soil bed. > >It will make a pretty fine seedbed if you make 2 or 3 passes, but I >caution you to find better ways to plant fine seeded crops, as >pulverizing the soil into a fine seedbed is inherently very destructive >to the soil. > >We work the bed to baseball-to-golfball sized pieces (there is, of >course a lot of smaller stuff mixed in), then plant into the soil. For >fine seeds we make a grove 2-3 inches wide, fill it with a soil mix >(much like our starting mix), mix the seeds with sand and spread that >into a groove in the soil mix in the trench. > >The horsepower required depends on the spader (size) and your soil (how >hard). Ours is 3 feet wide, with 4 shovels about 6 inches wide at the >top and 4 inches wide at the bottom. It requires 20-22 HP. > >You can get them as walk-behind (probably 8-15 HP) or standard 3-point >implements. We got ours from Farrari Tractor CIE in California. This is >a one-man operation, I think. We met him first at the Ecological Farming >Conference in California years ago. I think he still goes there every >year. We've seen him at other ag events, too. He is very active on the >west coast. I imagine he would work with anybody in the country. He was >very accomodating with us and we recommend him highly. > >Good growing, > >Will Newman II >Natural Harvest Farm >Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust >www.osalt.org =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. Archives to BD Now! are located at: http://csf.colorado.edu/biodynamics/ To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From osalt@teleport.com Thu Jul 1 12:29:29 1999 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 11:33:48 -0700 From: Will Newman II To: Sue Andersen Cc: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: So what is a spader? Sue Andersen wrote: "How's a spader work? What's it look like? Will it turn in a cover crop and incorporate compost? Does it leave you with a good enough seedbed for fine seeded crops? What HP does it require? Where do you get 'em?" A spader looks a lot like a rotary tiller, but instead of rotating "tines" it has "spades" on a double cam mounting. The spades look like small shovel blades - shaped like the Heinz food company shield in their logo - and move in a mostly up and dowm motion, with a little tilt at the bottom of the stroke. The effect is like pushing a shovel (hence the name shove-l) straight into the ground, rocking the handle back and forth, then drawing the shovel back out. All without turning the soil over. The action opens up compacted soil and allows air and water in, while doing minimal damage to soil organisms and microlife. It won't "turn in" a cover crop, but it will chop it up some and push some of it down into the soil, where it will break down better then sitting on top. It will incorporate compost, as loose material on top of the soil falls into the openings made as the spader travels along the soil bed. It will make a pretty fine seedbed if you make 2 or 3 passes, but I caution you to find better ways to plant fine seeded crops, as pulverizing the soil into a fine seedbed is inherently very destructive to the soil. We work the bed to baseball-to-golfball sized pieces (there is, of course a lot of smaller stuff mixed in), then plant into the soil. For fine seeds we make a grove 2-3 inches wide, fill it with a soil mix (much like our starting mix), mix the seeds with sand and spread that into a groove in the soil mix in the trench. The horsepower required depends on the spader (size) and your soil (how hard). Ours is 3 feet wide, with 4 shovels about 6 inches wide at the top and 4 inches wide at the bottom. It requires 20-22 HP. You can get them as walk-behind (probably 8-15 HP) or standard 3-point implements. We got ours from Farrari Tractor CIE in California. This is a one-man operation, I think. We met him first at the Ecological Farming Conference in California years ago. I think he still goes there every year. We've seen him at other ag events, too. He is very active on the west coast. I imagine he would work with anybody in the country. He was very accomodating with us and we recommend him highly. Good growing, Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust www.osalt.org From osalt@teleport.com Thu Jul 1 12:30:11 1999 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:51:19 -0700 From: Will Newman II To: FranksFarm@aol.com Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: So what is a spader? I believe you can get spaders "built into a tractor" as dedicated machines as well as in the form of smaller walk-behind self-contained units. Our spader is a standard 3-point implement and fits any tractor with a standard 3-point hitch (I think category 3 - whatever the standard regular size is - not the monster size) It is Italian made, and I think Italy sort of has a corner on the market with a number of manufacturers producing them, though I don't know why other countries don't seem to make any. Maybe Italy jusy got started first. Size and brand of tractor shouldn't be particularly important, but it must have sufficient horsepower (which depends on the width of the spader and how hard your soil is - ask the supplier of the spader) and must be able to go slow enough at full PTO speed. This last is critical, and the reason we rent a tractor to use our spader - we have plenty of power, but can't go slow enough (1 to 1-1/2 mph). Of course, the tractor needs a 3-point hitch, but I think all true tractors (as opposed to garden tractors) do now. If you are looking for a tractor with the idea of buying one, I recommend 4-wheel drive (extends your season) and hydrostatic transmission (or something like it) for infinite speed control. Another word about tractors: we do very little soil turning, except when bringin soil back into balance (once balanced we keep soil in balance without turning by using mulches, rock powders and compost). We use the tractor mainly for two things: mowing and hauling materials in the loader. If this seems to make sense to you I recommend that you get a tractor with AT LEAST 42 PTO HP - that is at least 42 HP at the power take off. This will mean the hydraulic system will have the capacity to handle a good sized loader bucket (say 3' by 3' by 6'). With just a little less horsepower you are stuck with dinky loaders that hold about 20% as much stuff. Takes forever. For informtion get ahold of Ferarri Tractor Et Cie. in California. They probably have a web site, but I don't know what it is. Good growing, Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust FranksFarm@aol.com wrote: "Hi Will, In a message dated 6/9/99 10:17:30 PM, osalt@teleport.com writes: $3,200 including shipping to Portland, and well worth it. One person on a small tractor can prepare literally 10 times as many beds as by hand. (2 guys - with shovels, rakes, etc., 4 beds, 8 hours vs. 1 guy - with tractor and spader, 20 beds, 8 hours). >> Sounds real good to me. Somehow I thought this machine came with a small Italian made tractor. Sounds like the above is an attachment. What size , brand type tractor would you recommend for it. Can too much HP, size be a problem.? Will this attachment fit on all tractors? Do you know where I can get more literature, info on this spader? Thanks again. Frank <<" From Pat_Elazar@cwb.ca Thu Jul 1 12:31:46 1999 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:03:15 -0500 From: Pat Elazar To: osalt@teleport.com Cc: FranksFarm@aol.com, csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: So what is a spader? To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: Re: So what is a spader? I have been seeing this question alot, and I feel that I should let people know about a book that's put out by the Sustainable Agriculture Network (SAN) called, "Steel in the Field: A Farmers Guide to Weed Management Tools". It was published in 1997 and is available through SAN. I work for SAN, but I also interested in developing my own CSA in the next couple of years. I have heard great reviews by those who are familiar with farm machinery and those who aren't at conferences around the country. It has lots of pictures and lots of information on topics like "how to comply with erosion-prevention plans, how to remain profitable and how to manage residue and moisture loss." For more information about the book, go to http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/pubs/ This book is a must for anyone looking to reduce or replace pesticide inputs. Index, contact list, detailed illustrations and tool source list included. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From osalt@teleport.com Tue Jul 6 01:34:08 1999 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:30:11 -0700 From: Will Newman II To: Pat Elazar Cc: FranksFarm@aol.com, csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: So what is a spader? Thanks for the background. I don't know if I said this anywhere, but we used a 5 or 6' spader on a friend's David Brown tractor (it can go REALLY slowly) with fine results. I believe it is about 40 HP (PTO) We rent a 21 HP John Deere 4-wheel drive with hydrostatic transmission to use our 3' spader. We can control the fineness of the bed by controlling the speed we travel - the slower we go the finer the bed surface. If we want to we could leave a powder surface, though we never have. Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From osalt@teleport.com Tue Jul 6 01:34:35 1999 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:42:52 -0700 From: Will Newman II To: W. Bart Hunter Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: So what is a spader? W. Bart Hunter wrote (in part): "I don't have clue as to what a spader is. But I have to question the notion that a 42 HP (horse power) tractor is a valid goal for the small CSA farmer. In fact most tractors I've use have had far less horse power then that. I do agree with the four wheel drive. The problem I see is that most, but certainly not all members this list farm relatively small plots. A medium size tractor, 42 HP does fall into that range, is so large and expensive that it would be out of the question for most growers. I'd say you are looking at $30,000 plus worth of tractor." I recommended 42 HP because that is the low end of the true utility tractors. Smaller tractors don't have enough hydrulic capacity for a good loader, and often don't have hydraulic connections for 3-point impliments or loaders. As I understand it, some of the new 4-wheel drive tractors can do as much with less HP. Great, if you can afford new! We farm on 20 acres, but only work about 5. We paid $13,000 for our used International 464 (42 HP 3-cylinder diesel 2-wheel drive), a great International self mouting loader, a nearly new 5' John Deere tiller with ground wheels, and a tilt trailer big enough to haul the tractor with the loader mounted. Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From Jherr@thestreet.com Tue Jul 6 01:35:12 1999 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:02:01 +0000 From: Jeff Herr To: osalt@teleport.com, W. Bart Hunter Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: So what is a spader? And for our part, we, too, farm about five acres on a 20-acre site. This spring we purchased a 1983 Massey Ferguson 245. It's rated, I believe, at 42 horse. We bought it for $4500. It has lots of hours but the diesel engine is running very strong. And for what it's worth, the power of this workhorse has come into play many times so far. We're very pleased with our decision on this machine (not something I often say about machines!). So a smaller operation can find a machine like this if they spend the time on the road looking, like we did. -- Jeff The Cabbage Ranch Carnation, WA 98014 At 10:42 PM 6/12/99 -0700, Will Newman II wrote: >W. Bart Hunter wrote (in part): > >"I don't have clue as to what a spader is. But I have to question the >notion that a 42 HP (horse power) tractor is a valid goal for the small >CSA farmer. In fact most tractors I've use have had far less horse power >then that. I do agree with the four wheel drive. The problem I see is >that most, but certainly not all members this list farm relatively small >plots. A medium size tractor, 42 HP does fall into that range, is so >large and expensive that it would be out of the question for most >growers. I'd say you are looking at $30,000 plus worth of tractor." > >I recommended 42 HP because that is the low end of the true utility >tractors. Smaller tractors don't have enough hydrulic capacity for a >good loader, and often don't have hydraulic connections for 3-point >impliments or loaders. As I understand it, some of the new 4-wheel drive >tractors can do as much with less HP. Great, if you can afford new! > >We farm on 20 acres, but only work about 5. > >We paid $13,000 for our used International 464 (42 HP 3-cylinder diesel >2-wheel drive), a great International self mouting loader, a nearly new >5' John Deere tiller with ground wheels, and a tilt trailer big enough >to haul the tractor with the loader mounted. > >Will Newman II >Natural Harvest Farm >Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust > >