From barthunter@tellink.net Thu Jul 1 12:33:23 1999 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:49:11 -0400 From: W. Bart Hunter To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: So what is a spader? [ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ] [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ] [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ] Hi Folks, I don't have clue as to what a spader is. But I have to question the notion that a 42 HP (horse power) tractor is a valid goal for the small CSA farmer. In fact most tractors I've use have had far less horse power then that. I do agree with the four wheel drive. The problem I see is that most, but certainly not all members this list farm relatively small plots. A medium size tractor, 42 HP does fall into that range, is so large and expensive that it would be out of the question for most growers. I'd say you are looking at $30,000 plus worth of tractor. A whole book can be written on the "right tractor" for the small farmer. However, if we look back we see that there have been many tractors already in the field that work very well. For example the MF 135--a 35 HP tractor (newer ones with a different number are four wheel drive) work well and run forever--go Diesel not gas!. Several of the smaller John Deers work well. And let us not forget the old (1950's) Ford 8N's and (9N's). As for speed. I've yet to see a tractor that wouldn't go less then 1.5 mph in low gear/low range except some of the really old tractors. The key is the Power Take Off RPM's (revolutions per minute) 90% of all Cat 3, 3 point hitch driven equipment runs at 540 RPM's in this country. Some mowers and a few rakes are the exception. Therefor the speed of the tractor needs to be matched to the job. To do this most tractors have many speeds. Thus the tractor engine is sped up to 540's (it is marked on the tachometer) and the proper gear is selected for the ground speed. A note on European equipment. Most will fit American tractors or can be fitted by a competent mechanic. They sell some of the neatest small attachments you can find for the small farm--grain harvesters, plows, mowers, and all sorts of cultivators. We must remember that they have more small farms then we do and have developed the equipment to farm with. Their tractors are really great also--I once drove a 35 HP 4 wheel drive tractor that would handle all the equipment I used in our vineyard and the highest point on the tractor, was the top of the steering wheel, was under 40 inches! The tires on our Massy 135 were taller then that! Small is beautiful and often works better. Bart From goodows@excite.com Thu Jul 1 12:34:02 1999 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:00:47 PDT From: Lucy Goodman-Owsley To: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Small is Good(was So what is a spader?) I agree with Bart, small is good. I have noticed most people have under 10 acres and a 4 wheeled tractor can be too big for such small holding. Upon reading Eliot coleman's book The new Organic grower we went out and bought a 2 wheeled walking tractor and love the thing. We wanted a 10hp Goldoni but there were none in stock so we went with a 12hp BCS with several attachments including a tiller box and sickle bar mower (we can now use the lawn for compost). This replaced a 5hp front tine sears tiller. This machine has a PTO 3 speeds + reverse and does a nice tillage job plus it can lay mulch, mow, move rocks etc Basically what the 4 wheeled jobs do but it is smaller so it is easy to use in out 4' bed system. And like all goo small farm equipment it is italian. I suspect BCS does make a spader for thie machine but the US company had not heard of the spader concept so we let that topic drop. Sometime I shall contact the Milan factory to see for sure as I have noticed what these Italian companies offer to the US and Canada is ofyten not the whole European line. Lucy Goodman-Owsley Boulder Belt CSA New Paris, OH http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/boulderbeltcsa _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ From osalt@teleport.com Thu Jul 1 13:09:44 1999 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:30:11 -0700 From: Will Newman II To: Pat Elazar Cc: FranksFarm@aol.com, csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: So what is a spader? Thanks for the background. I don't know if I said this anywhere, but we used a 5 or 6' spader on a friend's David Brown tractor (it can go REALLY slowly) with fine results. I believe it is about 40 HP (PTO) We rent a 21 HP John Deere 4-wheel drive with hydrostatic transmission to use our 3' spader. We can control the fineness of the bed by controlling the speed we travel - the slower we go the finer the bed surface. If we want to we could leave a powder surface, though we never have. Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust From osalt@teleport.com Thu Jul 1 13:10:04 1999 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:42:52 -0700 From: Will Newman II To: W. Bart Hunter Cc: csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: So what is a spader? W. Bart Hunter wrote (in part): "I don't have clue as to what a spader is. But I have to question the notion that a 42 HP (horse power) tractor is a valid goal for the small CSA farmer. In fact most tractors I've use have had far less horse power then that. I do agree with the four wheel drive. The problem I see is that most, but certainly not all members this list farm relatively small plots. A medium size tractor, 42 HP does fall into that range, is so large and expensive that it would be out of the question for most growers. I'd say you are looking at $30,000 plus worth of tractor." I recommended 42 HP because that is the low end of the true utility tractors. Smaller tractors don't have enough hydrulic capacity for a good loader, and often don't have hydraulic connections for 3-point impliments or loaders. As I understand it, some of the new 4-wheel drive tractors can do as much with less HP. Great, if you can afford new! We farm on 20 acres, but only work about 5. We paid $13,000 for our used International 464 (42 HP 3-cylinder diesel 2-wheel drive), a great International self mouting loader, a nearly new 5' John Deere tiller with ground wheels, and a tilt trailer big enough to haul the tractor with the loader mounted. Will Newman II Natural Harvest Farm Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust