From: Kevin and Sandi Anderson (crossroads@sprynet.com)
Date: Thu Dec 04 1997 - 18:09:06 EST
My question was not originally offered with the intent to open up that can
of worms labeled "Christian Perfection." I was merely asking a grammatical
question related to the translation of the predicate nominative in the first
part of Phil 3:15. Whether or not one agrees with the interpretation set
forth in translating it "as many as _will be_ perfect/mature," the question
remains as to whether it is legitimate in any instance to translate a
predicate nominative with anything other than an implied present indicative
of EIMI, as in this case, with a future indicative of EIMI.
But now that I have opened this can of worms, I might as well pick up some
of them myself. Is Paul talking about two different kinds of "perfection"?
In 3:10,11 Paul is clearly talking about his participation in THN
EXANASTASIN THN EK NEKRWN. Then in 3:12 he hastens to add that he has not
yet "received" it (ELABON) nor has he "been perfected" (TETELEIWMAI--i.e.,
"reached the goal" as the NRSV suitably renders it). I believe Paul is quite
clearly speaking of the resurrection from the dead as a "being perfected"
that he has not yet attained. This is when Jesus will "will transform the
body of our humiliation that it may be conformed to the body of his glory"
(3:21). We may safely call this type of perfection "glorification" (to use
more or less traditional theological nomenclature). What then do we make of
TELEIOW's cognate adjective TELEIOS used in 3:15? Does Paul switch gears to
speak of a different type of "perfection"? (N.B. that I am not trying to
skew the issue by using the word "perfection." Unfortunately, there is no
other term that I can think of that is capable of being used in a somewhat
neutral fashion.) If I were to answer in the affirmative, then I would
certainly apprehend the hOSOI TELEIOI as those who are "mature,"
understanding TELEIOI in a similar vein with Paul's teaching in the
Corinthian correspondence (as Dr. Conrad has pointed out). Let me say that I
am inclined to agree with this interpretation. But let me entertain for a
moment a rendering of hOSOI TELEIOI which makes it consistent with Paul's
earlier reference to TETELEIWMAI: "as many as will be perfect"
(incorporating an implied future indicative of EIMI). The "perfection" in
both instances would then be identical, referring to the attainment of the
resurrection from the dead. Those who would be "perfect" in this ultimate
sense must have the same mind-set (FRONEITE) as Paul--they must pursue the
goal of the upward call (3:14); they must imitate Paul and walk according to
his pattern (3:17). This seems to me a perfectly legitimate reading of the
text. But how does one negotiate between these two understandings of TELEOI?
Is an implied future indicative of EIMI at all warranted? Is it inconsistent
to understand TELEIOW one way in 3:12 and TELEIOS in 3:15 in another way? Or
is Paul playing one cognate off of the other?
Enough for now. This makes for an interesting interpretative exercise!
Kevin L. Anderson
Ph.D. Student
London Bible College/Brunel University
Reading at Asbury Theo'l Seminary (Wilmore, KY)
crossroads@sprynet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl William Conrad <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
To: John M. Sweigart <jsweiger@cswnet.com>
Cc: b-greek@virginia.edu <b-greek@virginia.edu>
Date: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: Phil 3:15
>On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, John M. Sweigart wrote:
>
>> Carl William Conrad wrote:
>> >
>> > I would guess that the only reason anybody suggests assuming a future
>> > perfect (a rare enough tense in the first place; I think I've only
noted
>> > three or four in over 35 years of reading Greek--and there is no future
>> > perfect for EIMI--perhaps GENHSOMEQA is assumed?)--to begin again, the
>> > only reason anybody would suggest a future or future perfect would be
>> > because they understand TELEIOI to mean "perfect." While there are
>> > contexts where the word can carry that meaning, it probably has the
sense
>> > "mature" here--"grown-up" as opposed to 'still childish in one's
>> > thinking." So I think the point of Paul's statement is rather that, if
we
>> > are mature, or those of us who are mature, ought to take this attitude
...
>
>> Carl;
>> Any chance that TELEOI is related to OT TAMIM meaning blameless, i.e.
>> God's command to Abraham "Walk before me and be blameless" with its ANE
>> covenantal and treaty implications?
>> --
>
>I certainly wouldn't want to rule it out altogether, but the context
>really seems to me to be talking about a pattern of growth toward
>righteousness that will not be complete until the Day of Christ (cf. Phil
>1:9-11). So I rather think that the contrast here is like that which Paul
>suggests early in 1 Cor between infants that haven't yet been weaned and
>mature believers.
>
>Carl W. Conrad
>Department of Classics, Washington University
>One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO, USA 63130
>(314) 935-4018
>cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwc@oui.com
>WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
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