From: Wayne Leman (wleman@mcn.net)
Date: Sat Dec 23 2000 - 15:07:46 EST
Patrick responded:
> One question that immediately jumps to mind is this: what standards are
> used for determining that something is an idiom?
I used the standard that goes with the linguistic definition of an idiom
which Steven Craig Miller posted on this list, namely, that there are two or
more words that function together as a special lexical unit and whose
overall meaning cannot be determines from the sum of the meaning of the
individual words of that unit. We know typical English idioms such as:
She has a green thumb.
He kicked the bucket.
Your eyes are bigger than your stomach.
> And, once that is
> determined, how do we accurately determine the meaning?
We try to do so in the usual way that the meaning of any idiiom in any
language is determined, by recognizing that there is a conflict between the
literal meaning of the individual parts of the lexical unit and the way that
that unit has apparently been used by an author. We also go to standard
lexical reference works on NT Greek where idiomatic meanings are often
noted.
> One of the
> characteristics of idioms is that they are well known.
I'm not aware that this is a requirement for something to be an idiom. Some
idioms are likely limited to small speech groups, even a single family,
perhaps. It may be that you are thinking of the second meaning sense of the
word "idiom" which Steven gave in his message, in which idiom refers to
characteristic usage of speakers of a language group. But that definition is
very different from the definition of an actual linguistic idiom (Steven's
meanins sense #1).
> In this list,
> are the idioms included because they were well known idioms of the Greek
> of the period, found in the New Testament and elsewhere, or are they
> defined by context?
I struggled a great deal with whether or not a non-literal expression is a
true idiom or not. We had some discussion about this on B-Greek a couple of
months ago. You can note my uncertainties about this, stated on my webpage
for possible NT Greek idioms. As I stated earlier, I simply tried to apply
the definition of a true idiom to expressions in NT Greek. As a linguist
myself, I can spot idioms quite easily in my own mother tongue, English, and
I can find them also in other languges spoken today. I enjoy collecting
idioms from around the world. It seems to me that NT Greek should behave the
same as any other language with regards to idioms, so I started that little
collection. But there remain important uncertainties, not the least of which
is that we are dealing with a language for which we have no native speakers
to consult to determine which kinds of figurative language we are dealing
with for each of the idiom candidates.
>
> It seems that the process of correctly defining idioms could easily
> become intensely subjective.
It shouldn't be too subjective if we strictly follow the linguistic
definition. Where the subjectivity may come in, IMO, would be more in how
various figurative expressions in NT Greek are classified. It is not easy to
know, in each case, whether speakers were using a phrase that used, for
instance, a dead metaphor or a metaphor which was still active in the minds
of the speakers.
> How can we accurately discern the
> difference between the two?
>
> Sorry if these are stupid questions -- I'm just learning. :)
These are good questions, Patrick, not stupid at all. I personally hope that
by raising some of these questions, NT Greek scholars can become more
precise in what were the true idioms used in the corpus of the NT and
extra-biblical literature of Hellenistic Greek.
Wayne
----
Wayne Leman
Bible translation website: http://www.geocities.com/bible_translation
>
> Patrick
>
>
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