From: Steven Lo Vullo (doulos@merr.com)
Date: Mon Dec 31 2001 - 21:57:11 EST
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On Monday, December 31, 2001, at 06:58 PM, Richard Ghilardi wrote:
>> MK 6:22 -- EISELQOUSHS THS QUGATROS AUTHS [AUTOU] hHRWiDIADOS KAI
>> ORCHSAMENHS HRESEN TWi hHRWiDHi...
> I used that phrase ( difficile per difficilius ) because it seemed to me
> unlikely that AUTHS would follow THS QUGATROS rather than precede THS
> hHRWiDIADOS.
>
> [Ghilardi]
>
> In fact, it does BOTH. AUTHS both follows THS QUGATROS and precedes THS
> hHRWiDIADOS. Where better could Mark have placed this pronoun if he had
> wanted to qualify the entire phrase?
Carl's comment above clearly was not meant to convey that AUTHS doesn't
follow THS QUGATROS positionally in the clause, which would be patently
false. Rather, I think he meant to convey that, since in the
overwhelming majority of instances of the intensive pronoun it
positionally PRECEDES the word it qualifies, it is much more probable
that in this instance it precedes THS hHRWiDIADOS as an intensive
pronoun rather than follows THS QUGATROS as an intensive pronoun. In
light of the sheer statistical evidence, I think Carl is right in
thinking that it complicates the issue to propose something much more
improbable, if not downright forced, when a simple answer is at hand
that makes perfect grammatical sense.
Also, you say, "Where better could Mark have placed this pronoun if he
had
wanted to qualify the entire phrase?" This really is no argument, since
it depends on something we cannot know, i.e., what someone COULD have
done IF he had wanted to express something. We can't start with what was
in someone's head and work our way to the grammar; rather we must start
with the grammar and work our way to what was in someone's head.
> Are you saying that Greek is incapable of using an intensive pronoun
> like
> AUTHS to qualify an entire phrase consisting of a head noun and a
> genitve
> adjunct?
If a whole phrase or clause should be substantivized by an article, then
yes, I could see (under certain conditions) a whole phrase or even a
clause being qualified by an intensive pronoun (though in such a case
the article and pronoun would be neuter, and that which is
substantivized something like a proverbial saying or OT quotation). But,
taking away AUTHS, I fail to see how THS QUGATROS (THS) hHRWiDIADOS can
be construed as a substantival unit which can be qualified by an
intensive pronoun. I, along with Carl, do not get it.
--------------------
Steven Lo Vullo
Madison, WI
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