From: Polycarp66@aol.com
Date: Thu Jan 31 2002 - 12:33:40 EST
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: Sat Apr 20 2002 - 15:37:17 EDT
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 1/31/2002 11:03:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, boyd@huxcomm.net writes:
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<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I agree with your suspicion about the lexicons on this one. At the
<BR>very least, sense #3 for GRHGOREW is questionable, and sense
<BR>#3 for KAQEUDW doesn't find support in the GNT (apart from this
<BR>possibility).
<BR>
<BR>In my opinion, the near context supports sense #2 for both verbs,
<BR>since v. 6 uses the verbs in that way. To broaden the context to
<BR>Pauline usage, GRHGOREW is used in four places(1 Cor. 16:13;
<BR>Col. 4:2; 1 Thess. 5:6, 10), of which the other three clearly refer to
<BR>spiritual alertness. KAQEUDW is found in four places (Eph. 5:14;
<BR>1 Thess. 5:6, 7, 10). In Eph. 5:14 I would say we're dealing with
<BR>sense #2, definitely sense #2 in 1 Thess. 5:6, and probably sense
<BR>#1 in 1 Thess. 5:7 (although it does seem to have some ethical
<BR>connotations since it's used in conjunction with NUX). At any rate,
<BR>the "spiritually alert" and "spiritually dull" options seem to get the
<BR>most support from Pauline usage.
<BR>
<BR>Now to answer a few objections to this understanding:
<BR>
<BR>gfsomsel wrote:
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<BR><<<<Putting aside any theological issue, it would be inconceiveable to speak of being "children of light" and therefore "awake" (by which I would understand "spiritually alive") and yet be able to speak of the possibility of being either awake or asleep.>>
<BR>
<BR>I would not understand GRHGOREW to mean "spiritually alive," but
<BR>rather "spiritually alert." The exhortation in v. 6 implies that it is
<BR>possible for hUIOI FWTOS to "sleep," i.e. to be spiritually dull.
<BR>Hence Paul's exhortation GRHGORWMEN KAI NHFWMEN.
<BR>
<BR>Iver wrote:
<BR>
<BR><<<<I mean a contradiction between v. 6 and v. 10. V. 6 urges the believers to
<BR>be watchful, spiritually awake, and not be spiritually asleep. In v. 10
<BR>it looks like it doesn't matter. Whether they are awake or sleeping,
<BR>they will in any case come to live together with the Lord.>>
<BR>
<BR>I would say that vv. 9-10 emphasize what God has done for
<BR>believers. Saying that hAMA SUN AUTWi ZHSWMEN is
<BR>dependent on God's activity, rather than that of believers, does not
<BR>negate the ethical imperatives of the passage.
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>I would continue to opt for sense #3. In 5.5, 6 we have
<BR>
<BR>5. PANTES GAR hUMEIS hUIOI FWTOS ESTE KAI hUIOI hHMERAS. OUK ESMEN NUKTOS OUDE SKOTOUS 6. ARA OUN MH KAQEUDWMEN hWS hOI LOIPOI ALLA GRHGORWMEN KAI NHFWMEN
<BR>
<BR>Here KAQEUDW is used in contrast to those who are "children of the day" who are "awake" and "sober."
<BR>
<BR>The situation is different with respect to 5.10
<BR>
<BR>TOU APOQANONOTOS hUPER hHMWN, hINA EITE GRHGORWMEN EITE KAQEUTWMEN hAMA SUN AUTWi ZHSWMEN
<BR>
<BR>Here the possibility is set forth that those who are "awake" and "sober" in vss. 5 & 6 might "sleep." Since those who are spoken of in this section include the "we" or "us" of the previous section and since the assertion is made that "we" will be "with him" whether we are "awake" OR "asleep", it seems apparent that it has acquired a different significance here from in 5 & 6. I would contend that it now refers to being physically alive or physically dead.
<BR>
<BR>For whatever it's worth, here is some material from the abridge Kittle
<BR>
<BR>gregorew (agrupnew).
<BR>1. This has the literal sense “to watch” in Mk. 14:34; 24:43; Lk. 12:37.
<BR>2. It has the figurative sense “to be vigilant” (especially in relation to the parousia) in Mt 24:42; Mk 13:35; 1 Th. 5:6; Rev. 3:3, linked with sobriety in 1 Th. 5:6, prayer in Mk. 14:38; Col. 4:2, concern for salvation in Acts 20:31. agrupnew (only figurative) is used similarly in Mk. 13:33. Lk. 21:36; Eph. 6:18; Heb. 13:17.
<BR>3. The sense “to be alive” occurs only in 1 Th. 5:10. [A. Oepke, II, 333-39]
<BR>
<BR>kaqeudw
<BR>2. The Metaphorical Sense.
<BR>a. The term occurs for death in 1 Th. 5:10. An authentic raising from the dead is at issue in Mt. 9:24. It is not taught that death is really only a sleep.
<BR>b. There is a specialized use in 1 Th. 5:6, where sleep is the opposite of the concentration and energy of faith in an eschatological situation. The wise as well as the foolish virgins sleep in Mt. 25:5, but the former are ready at the decisive moment.
<BR>D. The Early Church. katheu?doµ does not occur in the immediate post-NT writings. Legends like that of the seven sleepers, which borrow from ancient myth and Jewish concepts, arise only in the fifth century at the earliest. [A. Oepke, III, 431-37]
<BR>
<BR>gfsomsel
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