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Re: questions about co-mingled compost testing and then some...

> 
> Susan K. Snow wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know when in the analysis of co-mingled compost takes
> > place?  Is it before or after the batteries and other materials in the
> > mix begin to corrode?
> 
> The answer is YES, both before and after.
> >
> > I've learned that a serious problem with analytical data from MSW
> > compost is that it does not typically pick up these heavy metal levels
> > in the analysis because the batteries are often still intact when the
> > test is done, only to decompose over time and leak their toxic contents
> > years later.
> 
> Who did you learn this from?
> >
> > It is my understanding that mixed waste composting basically takes the
> > commingled solid waste stream, commercial and residential, and processes
> > it into smaller particles that are subsequently composted.
> 
> Yes, this is my understanding too.
> 
>   This is
> > contrasted with source-separated composting which takes yard trimmings,
> > food scraps, non-recycled paper, and commercial organics before they are
> > commingled.
> 
> And more often than not, those people working with these products,
> create a stinking mess, along with winged vermin and RATS(or at least
> that's what they say on the WASTE list). They also say that the problem
> can be solved by releasing Gehkos in the vicinity to eat the flies and
> remove the food so the rats will have nothing to eat. You know what?
> Most don't even test for plant or animal pathogens, chemical sprays that
> can be on the green waste and food. At best, most of what we've seen has
> been closer to a mulch than compost.
> >
> > Mixed solid waste is high in paper and generally very dry, so that many
> > companies use sewage sludge to provide moisture and nitrogen.
> 
> We also use septage, carwash trap waste with their solvents, fats, oils
> and greases, petroleum sludge, landfill leachate and drinking water from
> the hydrant.
> >
> > Again, it is my understanding that hammermilling systems shred plastics,
> > batteries, and such into little bits that may ultimately contaminate the
> > compost.
> 
> We fully agree that hammermills are guilty of this nefarious act. Other
> grinders however, are quite up to the task.
> 
>   Other systems, I've heard tell, twist plastics into tiny
> > toothpick-like bits.  And, there are companies that sell dyes to color
> > compost the desirable dark brown or black color characteristic of earth
> > rich in organic matter.
> 
> This is a great example of people that don't know how to compost. If
> you've got a machine though that twists plastic into toothpicks, this
> may be the beginning of a REAL recycling market!
> >
> > Mixed waste composting will still have the full gamut of heavy metals,
> > particularly metals from household batteries such as mercury, lead,
> > nickel, cadmium, and zinc.
> 
> This is a good point that we would like to see you expound upon. Since
> last July, you have of course been reviewing and verifying test
> protocol, data, and samples for independent testing. We are looking
> forward to your posting to all lists the results of your study.
> 
>   I understand that PCB levels in mixed waste
> > compost are often over 10 PPM as well, of which I and many states have
> > concerns with levels over 1 PPM.
> 
> What did you think of our test results using MSW and landfill leachate
> that showed NONE DETECTED for ALL PCB isomers at ppb?
> 
>   Moreover, the USEPA does not regulate
> > mixed waste compost!
> 
> If this is so, how come all states refer to existing standards set by
> the EPA? I know there is no written regulation but in the 17 states
> we've been involved with, most of which have no composting regs of their
> own, they all follow multiple EPA standards. May I submit to you in REAL
> WORLD time and order, that mixed waste/sludge composting, is regulated
> more than landfills, incineraters and land applied sludges. You see,
> with no written regs, they apply ALL the regs that govern the above to
> composting.
> >
> > The fact is that household batteries are in mixed waste, and that they
> > are concentrated into a mixed waste compost.  It is also a fact that
> > they are high in heavy metals, and that if they are not removed, they
> > contaminate the compost to levels far in excess of even the most liberal
> > guidelines, much less the EPA 503 sludge rules which are liberal
> > compared with those in the Netherlands and Germany.
> 
> Anxiously awaiting your post to the list after you finish your review of
> compost made from MSW/sludge/landfill leachate. We would like your fair
> and unbiased opinion as to how it stacks up against the standards you
> mentioned above.
> >
> > We have learned from the Seattle Times series how hazardous wastes
> > become fertilizer and the consequences of this action to farmers health,
> > the health of the fields, and grazing animals.
> > http://www.seattletimes.com/todaysnews/browse/html97/fert_070397.html
> 
> What does this have to do with composting???? If you test the sludge on
> the front side, and it has been blessed for direct land application, I'm
> not sure I follow your concerns about further processing in order to
> meet or exceed the same standards you listed above.
> >
> > How will the recycling of industrial or municipal solid waste into
> > compost affect the health of farmers and their families, communities
> > down wind, especially when dust blows or fields are burned, such as with
> > sugar cane?
> 
> In the material that was offered to you, did you check directly with the
> Health Depts who tested for airborn pathogens, heavy metals and all
> organic compounds on the RCRA list? If so, please report to everyone
> what you found.
> >
> > Will the soil to dust to lungs or hands to mouth series poison our
> > children, ourselves, as well as the food chain?
> 
> The Center for Disease Control can answer this question for you. You may
> be surprised to learn that there are more pathogens on a circulated
> dime, than are found in a quality compost operation. Don't tell me you
> wash your money before you give it to the kids to buy candy?
> 
>   Does this sustain
> > agriculture or sustain disposal of such materials?
> 
> An unequivocal YES! Both. Isn't it wonderful to be able to clean up the
> waste and grow food at the same time! With >6% nationwide recycling,
> it's great to be able to clean it up well below any regulatory limits,
> while at the same time detoxifying the organics to be returned to the
> earth from where they came. It just doesn't make sense to me to bury
> them, burn them or spread them partially processed over the ground.
> Standards based on science certainly need to play a fact in all
> regulations and we agree they need to be tightened up. Standards,
> definitions, and process and product certification is what we should all
> be working for. You can't solve the problem with emotion, opinion and
> the Chicken Little syndrome when you get bopped on the head with an
> acorn, running and telling everyone you can " THE SKY IS FALLING"!!
> 
>  My concerns and
> > others have been echoed in The Case for Caution.
> > http://www.cfe.cornell.edu/wmi/PDFS/PDFS.html
> 
> We share the same concerns, but Cornell's report is not based on Zero
> Tolerance. How do the test results that you are reviewing compare with
> the Cornell concerns?
> 
> Phil Fredericks
> http://www.uark.edu/~ecti/

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