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Re: A zero-fossil-fuel studio?
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Subject: Re: A zero-fossil-fuel studio?
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From: nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick Pine)
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Date: 12 Mar 1996 07:26:35 -0500
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Article: 632 of alt.solar.thermal
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ermal: 632 alt.architecture.alternative:6391 alt.home.repair:20091 bit.listserv.
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geodesic: 4317
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Newsgroups: sci.energy, sci.engr.heat-vent-ac, alt.solar.thermal, alt.architecture
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Organization: Villanova University
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References: <4gv6k9$gt3@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu> <4hoe41$om5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4hvgot$148@nntp.interaccess.com> <4i2i02$2ro@spot.yknet.yk.ca>
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Xref: newz.oit.unc.edu sci.energy:47149 sci.engr.heat-vent-ac:5574 alt.solar.th
Mike Youso <arctech@yknet.yk.ca> wrote:
>A major concern with any thermal storage system is the moisture from
>condensation on the surface of the thermal storage modules if a remote
>storage bank is used.
I agree this is a good thing to avoid. I don't see a problem with moisture
condensing on these containers of water while the containers are heating
the house on a cloudy day, do you? Would moisture condense on the containers
of water as they are being heated by sun-warmed air? Perhaps, if the air is
moist. But the air should be fairly dry in the winter, if the house is
reasonably-well ventilated and the sun heats it up. Do you think condensation
will occur in this system, or are you just saying it's a concern? If so,
I wonder under what conditions might it occur, and how might we avoid it?
>If the storage bank gets much above 60% rh some rather nasty organisms
>will be growing in the air supply system with possibly serious considerations
>for IAQ.
I wonder how the humidity would increase to 60%? It seems that, say, 32 F air
at 100% relative humidity will have a much lower RH at 68 F, and on an average
day in December, this solar closet should be about 130 F inside.
>The most succesful thermal storage uses direct-gain solar mass walls
>rather than ducting warm moist air to a storage bank.
Again, where does the moist air come from? During charging, the air in a
solar closet is completely self-contained. There is no mixing with house air...
And when you mention "successful" direct gain solar mass walls do you mean
Trombe walls?
A few years ago, I spent some time explaining to a local architect, a more
technical person than most, who had taken a few engineering courses on the
way to architecting, that a "Trombe wall" with some dark-colored insulation
on the outside and an air gap between the insulation and glazing and some
to the inside of the house that opened up during the day was a lot more
efficient at collecting and keeping solar heat in the house than a plain old
"traditional" Trombe wall, with masonry right behind the glass, with no
insulation. Here's what I said:
A modified "Trombe wall" with insulation on the outside, and 1 ft^2 of south-
facing single-glazed area and an R-value of 20, will receive about 1000
Btu/day of heat on an average 32F December day, where I live. If the room
behind it has a constant temp of 70F, and the sun shines 6 hours a day,
on the average, the energy that leaks out of the glass will be about 6 hours
x (70F-32F) x 1 ft^2/R1 = 228 Btu during the day, and 18 hours x (70-32) x
1 ft^2/R20 = 34 Btu at night, a net gain of 1000 -228 -34 = 738 Btu/day.
Simple, no? (~750 Btu, net, with double glazing, which passes less sun.)
A standard unvented Trombe wall (Table IV-14b of Mazria's book says vented
ones don't work much better) with a very large uninsulated thermal mass
right behind the glass and an R-value of, say 2 (roughly 1' of masonry),
would have an average temperature at the outside wall surface of about
32F + R1 x (70F-32F)/(R2+R1) = 45F, if there were no sun. If you add a
heatflow of 1000 Btu/day of sun to that model, falling on the outside
of the wall, the outside wall surface will have an average temperature
of about 45F + 1000/24 x (R=2/3) = 72.4F, which contributes 24 hours x
(72.4F- 70F) x 1 ft^2/R2 = 29 Btu/day to the room behind the wall.
So the "improved Trombe wall" above, (actually an air heater with the
thermal storage inside the house) is _more than 25 times as efficient_
(738/29) at collecting and keeping heat in the room behind it, than
the usual Trombe wall. This is a bit oversimplified...
Trombe walls are also thermal disasters during long strings of cloudy days.
When the sun goes in for a week or two, they lose their stored heat in less
than a day, and then leak house heat badly, dramatically raising backup
heat or other solar thermal storage requirements.
>Two or three layers of drywall is a good compromise since only the first
>1.5" to 2" is diurnally active.
Seems to me that a few "accent drums" full of water sprinkled around
the house might be cheaper...
>a zero fossil fuel studio is quite feasible almost anywhere south of the
>arctic circle.
We seem to agree on that :-)
Nick
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