Article: 215103 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Ed Price" <edprice@cox.net>
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com> <11d5ddkek1b715f@corp.supernews.com> <11d5gbpnl960keb@news.supernews.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
Message-ID: <gf6Be.31364$ro.4327@fed1read02>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 03:43:15 -0700


"Charlie" <charlie@earthlink.net> wrote in message 
news:11d5gbpnl960keb@news.supernews.com...
> The images are the same yeah...DUH!!
> Since there was no damage.....except perhaps your brain damage.
> You don't catch on too fast do you?
>
> -- 
>
> Charlie
> Ham Radio - AD5TH
> www.ad5th.com
> Deep South 2 Meter SSB Net
> www.deepsouthnet.net


Well, this will be my last post on this thread. I think Charlie has burnt 
his last shred of credibility by using identical images for "before" and 
"after" evidence. I'm sure everyone noted that not even a single tree leaf 
was lost during that disaster, so I suppose Charlie could also claim that 
his tower is as strong as a leaf, maybe even stronger!

Since Charlie doesn't seem to worry too much about factual evidence, his 
request for technical comments must have been posted for entertainment 
value, and in that, he certainly has succeeded. Can we look forward to 
annual updates posting the same original image, thereby proving that Chuckie 
has not only built a strong, but an eternal tower?

-- 
Ed
WB6WSN
El Cajon, CA  USA




Article: 215104 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Ed Price" <edprice@cox.net>
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com> <1121132105.203448.125460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
Message-ID: <Xv6Be.31366$ro.11006@fed1read02>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 04:01:02 -0700


"spaceyfi" <spaceyfi5@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1121132105.203448.125460@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Definately, sometimes we learn our lessons the hard way.
>
> Susan
> Ham to be
> Husband Leon is KB7YXG
>

Some people, a select few, can repeat the course indefinitely, yet still 
rant at the gods over their misfortunes.

-- 
Ed
WB6WSN
El Cajon, CA  USA




Article: 215105 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Nedlar <Nedlar <me@privacy.net>>
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 12:07:57 +0100
Message-ID: <mdt9d1lfmqlv74fkghea49pvd77pransau@4ax.com>
References: <4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com> <4le4d1pn0mnp42553fkftehhk8flglk6as@4ax.com> <P4AAe.21544$bh1.20211@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net> <jrk5d1h62lpq9kpba6a6rgefuv7ufsp4od@4ax.com> <35CAe.8796$184.2063@newsfe2-win.ntli.net> <75s5d1pubap3gfufv3o5k1ei55v3thnbil@4ax.com> <wBCAe.540$322.221@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net> <bm47d15dhc0sm3iblscqq04buej20b07vu@4ax.com> <c4UAe.924$vz5.525@newsfe4-win.ntli.net> <19e8d1li6om66g2le6oetv8avb11usp37u@4ax.com> <HOXAe.392$yw5.295@newsfe5-win.ntli.net>

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 22:50:15 GMT, Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI
<g3vki@turner-smith.co.uk> wrote:

>I'm OK thanks, I just turn the lights off, you must need a gas mask.


Sadly for you, and other unfortunates in your area, daylight
comes.....

You have my deepest sympathy.


Article: 215106 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Big Endian <nospam@nospam.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com> <11d5ddkek1b715f@corp.supernews.com> <11d5gbpnl960keb@news.supernews.com> <gf6Be.31364$ro.4327@fed1read02>
Message-ID: <nospam-6B0EF9.07045213072005@news-rdr-03.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 12:04:52 GMT

In article <gf6Be.31364$ro.4327@fed1read02>,
 "Ed Price" <edprice@cox.net> wrote:

> "Charlie" <charlie@earthlink.net> wrote in message 
> news:11d5gbpnl960keb@news.supernews.com...
> > The images are the same yeah...DUH!!
> > Since there was no damage.....except perhaps your brain damage.
> > You don't catch on too fast do you?
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > Charlie
> > Ham Radio - AD5TH
> > www.ad5th.com
> > Deep South 2 Meter SSB Net
> > www.deepsouthnet.net
> 
> 
> Well, this will be my last post on this thread. I think Charlie has burnt 
> his last shred of credibility by using identical images for "before" and 
> "after" evidence. I'm sure everyone noted that not even a single tree leaf 
> was lost during that disaster, so I suppose Charlie could also claim that 
> his tower is as strong as a leaf, maybe even stronger!
> 
> Since Charlie doesn't seem to worry too much about factual evidence, his 
> request for technical comments must have been posted for entertainment 
> value, and in that, he certainly has succeeded. Can we look forward to 
> annual updates posting the same original image, thereby proving that Chuckie 
> has not only built a strong, but an eternal tower?

Me thinks charlie is a kook.


Article: 215107 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 07:28:21 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42c695c0$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42c7f8f6.3567850@news.crosslink.net> <42c832be$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <daur1o$7k4$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d3c5c5$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db1evm$eqg$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d48ff5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <s489d19kpaqr30hg41qrqcvqet7q1elooi@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42d509ea$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:
> [Hecht rolls his eyes] 

I'm going to trim and ignore the condescending ad hominem stuff.

> ... the math follows the physics, it does not create the physics.

Your argument has that exact flaw. "What Cecil is describing doesn't
exist in the common math model. Therefore, the math model prohibits
it from existing in physics." Please follow your own advice. There
is a vast gulf between being descriptive and being prohibitive.

> There is a vast gulf between being descriptive and being proscriptive.

I didn't choose to quote the entire book, Richard. Hecht also says:
"If two or more electromagnetic waves arrive at point P out-of-phase
and cancel, 'What does that mean as far as their energy is concerned?'
Energy can be distributed, but it doesn’t cancel out. ... The
superposition of coherent waves generally has the effect of altering
the spatial distribution of the energy but not the total amount
(of energy) present."

"Altering the spatial distribution of the energy" in a transmission
line is a binary function since there are only two directions. If
the spatial distribution is altered, it necessarily changes directions.

The following does explicitly state a change in direction, i.e. "A
NEW DIRECTION".

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/interference/waveinteractions/index.html

"When two waves of equal amplitude and wavelength that are 180-degrees
out of phase with each other meet, they are not actually annihilated.
All of the photon energy present in these waves must somehow be
recovered or REDISTRIBUTED IN A NEW DIRECTION, according to the law
of energy conservation ... Instead, upon meeting, the photons are
redistributed to regions that permit constructive interference, so
the effect should be considered as a redistribution of light waves
and photon energy rather than the spontaneous construction or
destruction of light." (Emphasis mine.)

A transmission line has only two directions. If wave cancellation, i.e. 
permanent destructive interference, takes place in one direction, the
necessary corresponding constructive interference must be "redistributed
in a new direction". In a transmission line, there is only one "new
direction", the opposite direction from the old direction.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----


Article: 215108 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "tjs" <anon@anon.net>
References: <RYVAe.29028$d5.182116@newsb.telia.net>
Subject: Re: zip cord feeding a g5rv antenna
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 12:07:10 -0400
Message-ID: <42d5403a_2@news1.prserv.net>

I have a 40meter band xmit/recv antenna up with good swr and works great.
Cost me nothing but my time, and a plastic center insulator to strain
releive the zip cord (rather than tie a knot in the cord at the center. Just
rip down 33 ft of zip cord, tie a knot or use the insulator, and cut the
feedlinne section to a integral half wave long (20, 40, 60etc meters long).
If cut to a half wave (use a dip meter) the swr of the dipole will be
translated unaltered to the radio end of your feedline and 70 ohms is OK for
a swr of 1.4 and the xcvr will not care usually.

Great emergency antenna.



"pegge" <pegge.j@DELETEtelia.com> wrote in message
news:RYVAe.29028$d5.182116@newsb.telia.net...
> someone tried to feed a type g5rv antenna with ´european´ zip-cord ?
> (european meaning double the Volts compared to USA, thus half amps
> for the same lamp wattage)
> Would yield a simple ant, peel the first say abt 15- 17 meters, splitting
> them up to the dipole part and the the rest X meter to a balanced tuner
etc.
> sorry if this has been up too many times, search did´nt give a clue!
>
> Tnx for info, 73 Per / sm7aha malmo, sweden
>
>




Article: 215109 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "tjs" <anon@anon.net>
References: <1120820642.403459.107860@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Really low SWRs but is it worth trimming the antenna
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 13:00:54 -0400
Message-ID: <42d54ccf_2@news1.prserv.net>

Your SWRs are great (as the antenna is setup now) dont bother fixing them.
A good antenna, maybe with some gain, usually only has a bandwidth of the 40
channels. The SWR will be maybe 2:1 at ch1 then go low to 1:1.4 at ch20 then
back to 2:1 at ch 40..will work just fine. Actually your SWRs sound too good
to me, for antennas with loading coils.

If you change the antenna the SWR WILL change so you will need to tune it
up. You want more gain, in some direction, right? well you're going to loose
gain in all the other directions. Focusing the signals by setting up the
antenna like in a beam makes the antennas SWR curve narrower, 2:1range may
only go from ch10 to ch 30. And the SWR will go up, so you need the gamma
match you see on the driven elements to fix the problem.

Apparently  Peneterators are 12 ft long, with a load in the center (a lousy
compromise). There would be a matching coil at the base probably too whether
theyre 1/2 wave or 5/8th antennas. A real 5/8th antenna will be 21 ft high
with no loading coils, dont skimp on heighth .

If they are 5/8th antennas and you have mounted these base to base then you
have made an Extended Double Zepp which has gain of maybe 4-6db (2.5-4X
signal gain) and can focus the signals on the horizon (I assume these are
mounted vertically not horizontally out from the sides of a tower). you
would need to put the base to base mount at least 40ft off the ground, one
pointing up/one down.

Adding a director or reflector will not do much for you, since you already
have pretty good antenna (assuming its working right!) A Zepp antenna (end
to end 5/8th antennas, 42 ft long) is a great vertical if high enough and it
puts you power on the horizon.



"Blue Dawg" <thecowboyace@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120820642.403459.107860@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I am running a President Grant am/usb/lsb and on Channel 1 the SWR is
> 1:0.08, on Channel 40 it is 1:1.45 and on Channel 19 it is 1:1.09.  It
> really isn't worth doing an adjustment on this antenna setup is there?
> The antenna is a single Yagi beam made up of two Tram Penetrators
> (Monkey Made's).  I think that it is sold as a 1/2 wave antenna and
> have heard that it is a 5/8 wave.  This antenna can be set for 10 meter
> usage also.  It really looks weird up there without a reflector on it.
> I may put a reflector on it but am stumped as to length of the
> reflector (ging to be made of 1/2" electrical conduit).  I can't find
> the formula for the length taking into consideration of the diameter of
> the reflector.  I believe that the 'stand-by' one should use 468/f.
> Using 27.185 (Chl 19) the length should be 17.22 feet.  Only thing is
> the length of the driven element is less than 12' because of the
> antennas having the centerload coil in them.
>
> What do you think?
>




Article: 215110 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Walter Maxwell" <walt@w2du.com>
References: <RYVAe.29028$d5.182116@newsb.telia.net> <42d5403a_2@news1.prserv.net>
Subject: Re: zip cord feeding a g5rv antenna
Message-ID: <3wcBe.4995$5R1.2280@fe07.lga>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 13:50:03 -0400

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  "tjs" <anon@anon.net> wrote in message =
news:42d5403a_2@news1.prserv.net...
  > I have a 40meter band xmit/recv antenna up with good swr and works =
great.
  > Cost me nothing but my time, and a plastic center insulator to =
strain
  > releive the zip cord (rather than tie a knot in the cord at the =
center. Just
  > rip down 33 ft of zip cord, tie a knot or use the insulator, and cut =
the
  > feedlinne section to a integral half wave long (20, 40, 60etc meters =
long).
  > If cut to a half wave (use a dip meter) the swr of the dipole will =
be
  > translated unaltered to the radio end of your feedline and 70 ohms =
is OK for
  > a swr of 1.4 and the xcvr will not care usually.
  >=20
  > Great emergency antenna.

  Why do you think the SWR of the dipole will be unaltered at the radio =
end of the feedline? You are apparently ignoring the loss in the line =
that makes the SWR at the radio end less than that at the dipole =
terminals.

  If the zip cord had zero loss the SWR would be the same everywhere =
along the line, only the terminal impedance at the radio end would be =
the same as at the dipole.

  Without knowing the vf (velocity factor) of the zip cord how do you =
determine that the length is a half wave?

  And last, why would you want the length to be a half wave?=20

  Walt, W2DU


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  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>"tjs" &lt;</FONT><A =
href=3D"mailto:anon@anon.net"><FONT=20
  size=3D2>anon@anon.net</FONT></A><FONT size=3D2>&gt; wrote in message =
</FONT><A=20
  href=3D"news:42d5403a_2@news1.prserv.net"><FONT=20
  size=3D2>news:42d5403a_2@news1.prserv.net</FONT></A><FONT=20
size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>&gt; I have a 40meter band xmit/recv antenna up =
with good=20
  swr and works great.<BR>&gt; Cost me nothing but my time, and a =
plastic center=20
  insulator to strain<BR>&gt; releive the zip cord (rather than tie a =
knot in=20
  the cord at the center. Just<BR>&gt; rip down 33 ft of zip cord, tie a =
knot or=20
  use the insulator, and cut the<BR>&gt; feedlinne section to a integral =
half=20
  wave long (20, 40, 60etc meters long).<BR>&gt; If cut to a half wave =
(use a=20
  dip meter) the swr of the dipole will be<BR>&gt; translated unaltered =
to the=20
  radio end of your feedline and 70 ohms is OK for<BR>&gt; a swr of 1.4 =
and the=20
  xcvr will not care usually.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Great emergency=20
  antenna.<BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Why do you think the SWR of the dipole will be=20
  unaltered&nbsp;at the radio end of the feedline? You are apparently =
ignoring=20
  the loss in the line that makes the SWR at the radio end less than =
that at the=20
  dipole terminals.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>If the zip cord had zero loss the SWR would be the =
same=20
  everywhere along the line, only the terminal impedance at the radio =
end would=20
  be the same as at the dipole.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Without knowing the vf (velocity factor) of the =
zip cord how=20
  do you determine that the length is a half wave?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>And last, why would you want the length to be a =
half wave?=20
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Walt, W2DU</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Article: 215111 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Polymath" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com> <99iAe.145698$on1.40186@clgrps13>
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 19:18:55 +0100
Message-ID: <42d55ad8_3@x-privat.org>

You have to make allowances for Mrs.Nugatory. As always,
I responded very quickly to a genuine request for help, but
responded to the lead given by the questioner who
mentioned spring/damper rather than spring/mass, and so
I responded off-the-cuff without too much forethought.

Better a quick response than none at  all, or a response that
had the hallmarks of a 13-year old mind that requires a
literal meaning for everything, as does Mrs.Nugatory!

I acknowledged the error in a subsequent posting but Mrs. Nugatory
is a chronic paranoid obsessive who latches onto every thing that I say,
and hounds the thing to death, as she is doing below, many months
after the ephemeral chit-chat has ceased to have any relevance.

For example, if you seek out the time that I alerted Usenet users to
the availability of cheap dehumidifiers, Mrs.Nugatory managed to spin out
over 50 pages of insistence that I knew nothing about them!

Mentally deranged, or what!

"Frank" <ve6cb@nospam.telus.net> wrote in message 
news:99iAe.145698$on1.40186@clgrps13...
> "Spike" <Aero.Spike@Technologies.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com...
>> Polly parrotted:
>>
>>>Actually, just did a quick webbing and found enough to
>>>realise that the claims are founded upon feet of clay.....
>>>
>>>1. You do not separately excite the E and H fields because
>>>if you excite an E field, you get a corresponding H field, and 
>>>vice-versa,
>>>even if it is your intention to excite separately.
>>
>> Can this be the same idiot who thought that a spring/damper
>> combination was the mechanical equivalent of a coil and capacitor, on
>> the grounds that they both exhibited resonance?
>>
>> from
>> Aero Spike
>
> The spring and damper can be exactly model as an electrical analog; as can 
> virtually any physical system.  As a reference refer to "Dynamics of 
> Physical Circuits and Systems", by Lindsay and Katz at Concordia 
> University, Montreal.  ISBN 0-916460-21-5  published by Matrix of 
> Beaverton OR.
>
> Frank
> 




Article: 215112 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Jim Kelley <jwkelley@uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:50:49 -0700
Message-ID: <db3nqu$hed$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <42c695c0$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42c7f8f6.3567850@news.crosslink.net> <42c832be$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <daur1o$7k4$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d3c5c5$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db1evm$eqg$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d48ff5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Cecil Moore wrote:

> "PFtotal = P1 + P2 - 2*SQRT(P1)*SQRT(P2)"
> 
> so if you don't like negative power terms, you should confront both
> Eugene Hecht and Dr. Best.

Don't be foolish.  Obviously neither of the P terms can be negative if 
PFtotal is supposed to represent a real number.  I have no issues to 
confront with either of the gentlemen.  It is where you diverge from 
Hecht (and Maxwell, and Born and Wolfe, and Jackson) that I take issue.

>> Nor will we find a negative scalar quantity accompanied by the claim 
>> that the negative sign indicates a change in direction, as you have done.
> 
> 
> On the contrary, in equation 9.16 above, according to Hecht, the
> interference term is negative indicating "total destructive
> interference", his words, not mine. Here's Hecht's quote from _Optics_.

One statement does not contradict the other, as the subject in each 
sentence is entirely different.  Both statements are obviously true.

>> Similarly, power and irradiance do not physically propagate and they 
>> do not physically interact.
> 
> 
> On the contrary, they do physically interact for coherent waves as can
> be inferred by the interference equations. Please reference Chapter 9
> in _Optics_, by Hecht. The mathematical interaction of power and
> irradiance is a *result* of superposition of coherent EM waves. That's
> where the interference equations involving irradiance come from.

As I explained they come from the fact that the fields interact, and 
that power and intensity (or irradiance) go as the square of the field. 
  Lets say the square of F1 (field 1) is proportional with P1, and the 
square of F2 is proportional with P2.  And lets say the mathematical 
description of the way the two fields interact is as follows:
Ftotal = (F1 - F2)*(F1 - F2).  (Looks kinda like modulation, but I 
digress.)   We can then write that as
Ftotal = F1^2 + F2^2 - 2*F1*F2.  By substitution then,
PFtotal = P1 + P2 - 2*SQRT(P1*P2).  And that's where your favorite 
equation comes from.

73, ac6xg



Article: 215113 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Polymath" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <daqmp7$4m5$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <42d0e73b$2_1@x-privat.org> <daqsrq$jg4$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <mbu1d151b435f6r8ciku793174kh0e7fig@4ax.com> <42d1625e$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <9g13d1l6ktfm3vstb5p5e93ptl6k77m228@4ax.com> <zoqdnZre7eBeEkzfRVn-jw@comcast.com> <X_gAe.107$Rv7.93@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <V46dnXMMs8miOEzfRVnytA@brightview.com> <SFjAe.18552$x82.10049@fe03.lga> <2OkFDdCGOj0CFwl3@secornwall.com> <dathnf$g3c$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <SIjsykHa0k0CFwRh@secornwall.com> <datons$iih$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <42d2b05b_1@newsfeed.slurp.net> <42d2b1e3$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <daufrb$8c3$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <42d3c6fd$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:14:07 +0100
Message-ID: <42d569ce$1_3@x-privat.org>

"Absolutely unique"

"Utterly obliterated"

"Cecil Moore" <w5dxp@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:42d3c6fd$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net...
> Reg, IMO, only a naive person would ever use the words,
> "absolutely sure". :-)




Article: 215114 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Polymath" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <daqmp7$4m5$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <42d0e73b$2_1@x-privat.org> <daqsrq$jg4$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <mbu1d151b435f6r8ciku793174kh0e7fig@4ax.com> <42d1625e$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <9g13d1l6ktfm3vstb5p5e93ptl6k77m228@4ax.com> <11d3c2korn62158@corp.supernews.com>
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:16:56 +0100
Message-ID: <42d569cf$1_3@x-privat.org>

Which accounts for the place-name "The Butts" to be found
in many towns.

"J. Mc Laughlin" <jcm@power-net.net> wrote in message 
news:11d3c2korn62158@corp.supernews.com...
> Wow!  Check your history.  Once it was a requirement for persons in 
> England
> to be armed.  Practice was also compulsory.
>




Article: 215115 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Polymath" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com> <11d3g58e0argi7f@corp.supernews.com> <2ojAe.145746$on1.39889@clgrps13> <11d3h3g68cv8457@corp.supernews.com> <11d3uubthg00468@corp.supernews.com>
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:21:34 +0100
Message-ID: <42d569cf$3_3@x-privat.org>

Pound = Pound Weight, mass of one pound, acceleration (due to gravity)
of 32 ft/sec^2

Poundal = mass of one pound, acceleration of 1 ft/sec^2

(Cue Mrs.Nugatory to dive in with a 13-year-old's ridiculous
insistence on literal detail?)

Pound, Money = sort of like a dollar, but twice as valuable and more robust.

"J. Mc Laughlin" <jcm@power-net.net> wrote in message 
news:11d3uubthg00468@corp.supernews.com...
>   I continue to be in awe of MEs who
> always seem to know whether the "pounds" they are talking of are
> sort-of-like mass, or sort-of-like force, or money. 




Article: 215116 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Polymath" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
References: <xBrAe.12737$zY4.8356@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Thank you
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:28:10 +0100
Message-ID: <42d56b67_3@x-privat.org>

Eschew obfuscation!

"David J Windisch" <davidjw@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message 
news:xBrAe.12737$zY4.8356@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> To all the fellas who eschew anonymity, embrace civility, keep humor dry 
> and non-anatomical, occasionally expose the anon nitwits and their 
> nitwit-eries ... and who post interesting stuff here.
>
> 73, Dave, N3HE
> Cincinnati OH
>
> 




Article: 215117 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Polymath" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
References: <xBrAe.12737$zY4.8356@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com> <datuk1$lni$2@f04n12.cac.psu.edu> <mZudnRycK_JmT07fRVn-sQ@adelphia.com>
Subject: Re: Thank you
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:29:05 +0100
Message-ID: <42d56b68_3@x-privat.org>

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

"TimPerry" <timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote in message 
news:mZudnRycK_JmT07fRVn-sQ@adelphia.com...
>
> Dry humor? I'll drink to that
>
> 




Article: 215118 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Walter Maxwell" <walt@w2du.com>
References: <RYVAe.29028$d5.182116@newsb.telia.net> <42d5403a_2@news1.prserv.net> <3wcBe.4995$5R1.2280@fe07.lga> <8jnad1d971kvragrrgssh00628j13tsfdm@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: zip cord feeding a g5rv antenna
Message-ID: <mieBe.7895$rX7.1087@fe06.lga>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 15:51:57 -0400


  "Richard Clark" <kb7qhc@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:8jnad1d971kvragrrgssh00628j13tsfdm@4ax.com...
  > On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 13:50:03 -0400, "Walter Maxwell" <walt@w2du.com>
  > wrote:
  >
  > >  And last, why would you want the length to be a half wave?=20
  > >
  > >  Walt, W2DU
  >
  > And your posting mentions nothing in it that suggests why there is a
  > GIF attachment which may be infected.
  >
  > Walt,
  >
  > This is like running full power deliberately into a 10:1 mismatch:
  > 15 lines of content does not warrant a 156 line posting.
  >
  > 73's
  > Richard Clark, KB7QHC

  Richard, I can't imagine why you'd see a 156 line posting. I deleted
everything except 12 lines above my posting. And 12 are all that come up
when I review my post. Something musta happened that I'm not aware of.

  However, I will confess that I overlooked a GIF attachment. I have never
claimed that I could go through an entire day without screwing something up.

  Walt


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



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HJ^VVW'8+)0UQ6BLN<:R-:^ZYZ*:K[KKLMNONN_#&*^^\]-9+1 @`.P``
`
end



From ¥ Sun Jul 17 12:50:14 EDT 2005
Article: 215119 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Justín Käse <chupacabra@operamail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Tri-band Combo Vertical Counterpoise
Summary: full moon fantasy
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Reply-To: ¥
Expires: +7days
Message-ID: <42d66d62.1271421@chupacabra>
X-No-Archive: yes
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Lines: 13
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X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net
X-Trace: newssvr14.news.prodigy.com 1121285236 ST000 68.124.218.222 (Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:07:16 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:07:16 EDT
X-UserInfo1: OP[IBUNGSB^UCWDYIBHZOWP@YZOZ@GXOXB]T]_MIJQR@EPIB_VUKAH_[MTX\IS[K[NGYJJFNOFZR_G[BUNTAOQLFE^TEHRPI]PZZRP_BMDSFQFL_]CBHXRWCMDCUZAZN@D_AKMNLEI]MWHCSXL^]NNC__CZFGSGHYYXWPFG@SCAVA]\FT\@B\RDGENSUQS^M
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:07:16 GMT
Path: news1.isis.unc.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!wns14feed!worldnet.att.net!207.115.63.142!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr14.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!4543f3a2!not-for-mail
Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215119

Just wondering if there's any directional anomalies with the orientation
of the six meter counterpoise leg on a combo vertical? 
So far I haven't been able to detect any, seems fairly omni-directional.

BTW: I couldn't find the Comet GP-15 locally which many have recommended
and got the Diamond V2000A instead for its comparative price and
performance. It assembled and installed easily, made much improvement
over the Diamond SG-7900 it replaced, and I like it a lot. I did have to
adjust the 6m counterpoise leg out to it's max length to get resonance
down at 51MHz where most of the SSB is. 
-- 

JK


Article: 215120 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: zzzpk_pkearn_class_a@its-as-easy-as-they-say-multi_band_cb_is_here.eircom.es.it.net (ZZZZPK )
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:12:28 GMT
Message-ID: <42d57505.3837622@news.iol.ie>
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com> <11d3g58e0argi7f@corp.supernews.com> <2ojAe.145746$on1.39889@clgrps13> <11d3h3g68cv8457@corp.supernews.com> <11d3uubthg00468@corp.supernews.com> <42d569cf$3_3@x-privat.org> <ee782$42d570c2$97d55ac3$21439@ALLTEL.NET>

"Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com> wrote:

: Actually $1.76 as of today, but used to be worth $2.40.
: Any country too politically correct to call a terrorist a terrorist is not
: long for the world.


So... in a NON-POLITICAL way please describe those people of the mid 
to late 1700's who went around shooting soldiers who wore REDCOATS and
GOVERNED a land the that was at one stage part of the GREAT BRITISH
EMPIRE and had as one of its main cities BOSTON ?





Article: 215121 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI <g3vki@turner-smith.co.uk>
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com> <99iAe.145698$on1.40186@clgrps13> <42d55ad8_3@x-privat.org>
Message-ID: <XFeBe.158$s9.128@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:17:59 GMT

Poly no maths wrote:
<libel and general crap snipped >
> 
> Mentally deranged, or what!
> 
Remind us please, what were you saying about libel in your 'Formal 
Warning' earlier today?
-- 
...(_!_)...


Article: 215122 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Ron <rmrippy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Beam tilting
Message-ID: <I_eBe.161061$XQ.3273869@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:40:08 GMT

Is there any advantage to tilting a beam antenna up or down to match 
the anetnna's elevation angle of maximum gain to the angle of the 
received signal?  It looks like the answer is yes but not enough to 
justify the trouble/expense (unless you are tracking a satellite).

Ron, W4TQT



Article: 215123 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 15:41:02 -0500
From: Tom Ring <news0002@taring.org>
Subject: Re: zip cord feeding a g5rv antenna
References: <RYVAe.29028$d5.182116@newsb.telia.net> <42d5403a_2@news1.prserv.net> <3wcBe.4995$5R1.2280@fe07.lga> <8jnad1d971kvragrrgssh00628j13tsfdm@4ax.com> <mieBe.7895$rX7.1087@fe06.lga>
Message-ID: <42d57c5f$0$22201$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Walter Maxwell wrote:

> 
>   Richard, I can't imagine why you'd see a 156 line posting. I deleted
> everything except 12 lines above my posting. And 12 are all that come up
> when I review my post. Something musta happened that I'm not aware of.
> 
>   However, I will confess that I overlooked a GIF attachment. I have never
> claimed that I could go through an entire day without screwing something up.
> 
>   Walt

Walt

Both this post and your previous one look fine on Mozilla; no huge 
number of lines.  A file called p.gif is coming along with it, though.

tom
K0TAR


Article: 215124 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Walter Maxwell" <walt@w2du.com>
References: <RYVAe.29028$d5.182116@newsb.telia.net> <42d5403a_2@news1.prserv.net> <3wcBe.4995$5R1.2280@fe07.lga> <8jnad1d971kvragrrgssh00628j13tsfdm@4ax.com> <mieBe.7895$rX7.1087@fe06.lga> <42d57c5f$0$22201$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Subject: Re: zip cord feeding a g5rv antenna
Message-ID: <GzfBe.5021$5R1.4248@fe07.lga>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:18:43 -0400


  "Tom Ring" <news0002@taring.org> wrote in message
news:42d57c5f$0$22201$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...

  > >   However, I will confess that I overlooked a GIF attachment. I have
never
  > > claimed that I could go through an entire day without screwing
something up.
  > >
  > >   Walt
  >
  > Walt
  >
  > Both this post and your previous one look fine on Mozilla; no huge
  > number of lines.  A file called p.gif is coming along with it, though.
  >
  > tom
  > K0TAR

  Thanks Tom, I needed that.

  Walt


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



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`
end



Article: 215125 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: NEC good for modeling STLs??
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 14:26:03 -0700
Message-ID: <11db1nh92d6pvde@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1121286116.913758.137580@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

n7dai@comcast.net wrote:
> Hi, all --
> 
>   Looking for guidance: I want to do some virtual experimenting
> with small transmitting loops before I start welding up a few of
> the real things. Questions:
> 
>   * Is NEC, or one of its children, good for this sort of work?

Yep, providing that if there's more than one turn, the spacing between 
turns is at least a wire diameter or two.

>   * Do I need NEC/4, or will NEC/2 do?

NEC-4 will handle somewhat smaller loops, but double precision or mixed 
precision NEC-2 will probably be adequate. NEC-2 is free; NEC-4 is 
several hundred dollars.

>   * Can models handle curved conductors? If I have to enter a
> zillion straight segments, OK, but I'd rather not.

Conductors must be straight, but NEC-2 has the provision for 
automatically generating segments in a circle if you can figure out how 
to do it. EZNEC (my program) fully automates the process.

>   * Will the model handle lumped impedances, e.g. the matching
> capacitor at the far side of the loop?

Yes.

>   * Does NEC take Q issues (conductor resistance, capacitor
> leakage) into account?

Only to the extent that you know them and therefore can tell the program 
how large the loss resistance or conductance is.

>   * Can I usefully model over ground (ideal and real)? I have read
> claims that STLs aren't affected by height-above-terrain, and I
> rather suspect that it simply hasn't been convenient to hang the
> contraptions half a lambda in the air, and the writers are just
> whistling past the antenna range.

Yes.

I recommend that you download the free EZNEC demo program from 
http://eznec.com. It's adequate to do the modeling you describe, 
provided that the loop has only one or two turns. There's no time limit 
or restriction on its use. And it includes the full EZNEC manual.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


Article: 215126 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: Beam tilting
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 14:26:37 -0700
Message-ID: <11db1oj5qn6greb@corp.supernews.com>
References: <I_eBe.161061$XQ.3273869@twister.southeast.rr.com>

No.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Ron wrote:
> Is there any advantage to tilting a beam antenna up or down to match the 
> anetnna's elevation angle of maximum gain to the angle of the received 
> signal?  It looks like the answer is yes but not enough to justify the 
> trouble/expense (unless you are tracking a satellite).
> 
> Ron, W4TQT
> 


Article: 215127 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Hal Rosser" <hmrosser@bellsouth.net>
References: <RYVAe.29028$d5.182116@newsb.telia.net> <42d5403a_2@news1.prserv.net> <3wcBe.4995$5R1.2280@fe07.lga>
Subject: Re: zip cord feeding a g5rv antenna
Message-ID: <KRfBe.53113$qm.5516@bignews5.bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:40:02 -0400


"Walter Maxwell" <walt@w2du.com> wrote in message
news:3wcBe.4995$5R1.2280@fe07.lga...

"tjs" <anon@anon.net> wrote in message news:42d5403a_2@news1.prserv.net...
> I have a 40meter band xmit/recv antenna up with good swr and works great.
> Cost me nothing but my time, and a plastic center insulator to strain
> releive the zip cord (rather than tie a knot in the cord at the center.
Just
> rip down 33 ft of zip cord, tie a knot or use the insulator, and cut the
> feedlinne section to a integral half wave long (20, 40, 60etc meters
long).
> If cut to a half wave (use a dip meter) the swr of the dipole will be
> translated unaltered to the radio end of your feedline and 70 ohms is OK
for
> a swr of 1.4 and the xcvr will not care usually.
>
> Great emergency antenna.

>>Why do you think the SWR of the dipole will be unaltered at the radio end
of the feedline? You are apparently >>ignoring the loss in the line that
makes the SWR at the radio end less than that at the dipole terminals.

>>If the zip cord had zero loss the SWR would be the same everywhere along
the line, only the terminal impedance at >>the radio end would be the same
as at the dipole.

>>Without knowing the vf (velocity factor) of the zip cord how do you
determine that the length is a half wave?

>>And last, why would you want the length to be a half wave?

>>Walt, W2DU

I think he was correct about the half-wave length of feedline:
according to the ARRL Antenna Book  - 17th edition  copyright 1994   - page
24-12 in chapter 24, under the Heading "Special Cases" and under the
sub-heading "The Half-WaveLength Line", it pretty clearly states that
regardless of z, it will be the same on both ends of a half-wave line.  and
sections having such length can be added  or removed without changing the
load Z. (as long as loss is negligible)

Also - You don't need to know the VF if you use a dip meter (or MFJ 259) -
And he would want the length to be half-wave so as to be able to ignore the
characteristic impedence of the zip line and deal directly with the
impedence of the dipole directly.











Article: 215128 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com>
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com> <11d3g58e0argi7f@corp.supernews.com> <2ojAe.145746$on1.39889@clgrps13> <11d3h3g68cv8457@corp.supernews.com> <11d3uubthg00468@corp.supernews.com> <42d569cf$3_3@x-privat.org> <ee782$42d570c2$97d55ac3$21439@ALLTEL.NET> <42d57505.3837622@news.iol.ie>
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:56:13 -0400
Message-ID: <82c63$42d58e10$97d55ac3$28484@ALLTEL.NET>

We, or more correctly our forefathers, were patriots as far as we were
concerned, revolutionists, ingrates, and other labels as perceived by the
British oppressors.

In this case I can give you a few for this situation ; terrorist, raghead,
Muslim extremist. Take your pick.


"ZZZZPK "
<zzzpk_pkearn_class_a@its-as-easy-as-they-say-multi_band_cb_is_here.eircom.e
s.it.net> wrote in message news:42d57505.3837622@news.iol.ie...
> "Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com> wrote:
>
> : Actually $1.76 as of today, but used to be worth $2.40.
> : Any country too politically correct to call a terrorist a terrorist is
not
> : long for the world.
>
>
> So... in a NON-POLITICAL way please describe those people of the mid
> to late 1700's who went around shooting soldiers who wore REDCOATS and
> GOVERNED a land the that was at one stage part of the GREAT BRITISH
> EMPIRE and had as one of its main cities BOSTON ?
>
>
>




From Whomever you wish... good luck. Sun Jul 17 12:50:16 EDT 2005
Article: 215129 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: TokaMundo <TokaMundo@weedizgood.org>
Newsgroups: uk.radio.amateur,alt.engineering.electrical,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 15:51:25 -0400, "Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com>
Gave us:

>Actually $1.76 as of today, but used to be worth $2.40.

 So much for being "more robust"  Hahahahahaha...

>Any country too politically correct to call a terrorist a terrorist is not
>long for the world.

 That too.


From Whomever you wish... good luck. Sun Jul 17 12:50:16 EDT 2005
Article: 215130 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: TokaMundo <TokaMundo@weedizgood.org>
Newsgroups: uk.radio.amateur,alt.engineering.electrical,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
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Reply-To: Whomever you wish...  good luck.
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:12:28 GMT,
zzzpk_pkearn_class_a@its-as-easy-as-they-say-multi_band_cb_is_here.eircom.es.it.net
(ZZZZPK ) Gave us:

>"Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com> wrote:
>
>: Actually $1.76 as of today, but used to be worth $2.40.
>: Any country too politically correct to call a terrorist a terrorist is not
>: long for the world.
>
>
>So... in a NON-POLITICAL way please describe those people of the mid 
>to late 1700's who went around shooting soldiers who wore REDCOATS and
>GOVERNED a land the that was at one stage part of the GREAT BRITISH
>EMPIRE and had as one of its main cities BOSTON ?
>
>
 Wrong.  More landlord mentality bullshit.


From Whomever you wish... good luck. Sun Jul 17 12:50:16 EDT 2005
Article: 215131 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: TokaMundo <TokaMundo@weedizgood.org>
Newsgroups: uk.radio.amateur,alt.engineering.electrical,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Sender: WeedTokrsRUs
Reply-To: Whomever you wish...  good luck.
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 13:59:34 -0700, Richard Clark <kb7qhc@comcast.net>
Gave us:

>On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:21:34 +0100, "Polymath"
><invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>Pound, Money = sort of like a dollar, but twice as valuable 
>today:  $1.77  (down 10% since Christmas shopping)
>>and more robust.
>What a con job.
>100 years ago, today:  $4.87
>40 years ago, today:    $2.80
>30 years ago, today:    $2.20
>20 years ago, today:    $1.39
>10 years ago, today:    $1.60
>
>Robust must mean slumped by  63% - One Time Constant?

  Hahaha...
>
>Any boost of some 11% in the past decade certainly has to be
>attributable to the White House running the printing presses full
>steam.

  Nope.

 Watch out for RoHS though.


From Whomever you wish... good luck. Sun Jul 17 12:50:16 EDT 2005
Article: 215132 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: TokaMundo <TokaMundo@weedizgood.org>
Newsgroups: uk.radio.amateur,alt.engineering.electrical,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Sender: WeedTokrsRUs
Reply-To: Whomever you wish...  good luck.
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 14:40:38 -0700, Richard Clark <kb7qhc@comcast.net>
Gave us:

>On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:12:28 GMT,
>zzzpk_pkearn_class_a@its-as-easy-as-they-say-multi_band_cb_is_here.eircom.es.it.net
>(ZZZZPK ) wrote:
>
>>So... in a NON-POLITICAL way please describe those people of the mid 
>>to late 1700's who went around shooting soldiers who wore REDCOATS and
>>GOVERNED a land the that was at one stage part of the GREAT BRITISH
>>EMPIRE and had as one of its main cities BOSTON ?
>
>Hmmm,
>
>The British Empire must, as one would expect, have an Emperor, and
>particularly a British Emperor.  If we scan the list of Royals over
>time, certainly Britain had an Emperor (Carausius) during the Roman
>era (hardly worth claiming as being British when you bend your knee to
>Rome and that empire didn't even claim Wales).
>
>Nearly as far back ago, there was a ship called Emperor.
>
>There are a specie of penguins called Emperor.
>
>Almost 100 years ago there was a George who went by Emperor and like
>our own was numbered.  But it wasn't George Trois, in fact it was
>suggested that this George adopt the title "Emperor of the British and
>Hanoverian Dominions," but he refused (and this suggestion only came
>after 1802).
>
>If we rummage around the list of Monarchs, then we find our recent
>George, and Edward before him were "Emperors" and only of India.  The
>first "Emperor" was in fact an Empress (of that same named India).
>
>So, by the question above, it must be discerned that in fact no one
>ever took up arms against a GREAT BRITISH EMPIRE nor a MODEST BRITISH
>EMPIRE nor even a PIDDLIN' BRITISH EMPIRE.  So this usage of  BRITISH
>EMPIRE must in some sense mean the East India Trading Company (since
>the only monarchs called Emperor/Empress are uniquely associated with
>that sole state in our antipodes.  The East India Trading Company held
>property in Hudson Bay, so to put this presumed conflict into the
>desired  NON-POLITICAL way 
>	Canadian (the people, not the political country) Consumers
>revolting against a commercial entity - eh?  What a bunch of hosers.
>

 Absolutely flawless!


Article: 215133 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Walter Maxwell" <walt@w2du.com>
References: <RYVAe.29028$d5.182116@newsb.telia.net> <42d5403a_2@news1.prserv.net> <3wcBe.4995$5R1.2280@fe07.lga> <KRfBe.53113$qm.5516@bignews5.bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: zip cord feeding a g5rv antenna
Message-ID: <n%hBe.5050$5R1.4102@fe07.lga>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:04:48 -0400


  "Hal Rosser" <hmrosser@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:KRfBe.53113$qm.5516@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
  >
  > "Walter Maxwell" <walt@w2du.com> wrote in message
  > news:3wcBe.4995$5R1.2280@fe07.lga...
  >
  > "tjs" <anon@anon.net> wrote in message
news:42d5403a_2@news1.prserv.net...
  > > I have a 40meter band xmit/recv antenna up with good swr and works
great.
  > > Cost me nothing but my time, and a plastic center insulator to strain
  > > releive the zip cord (rather than tie a knot in the cord at the
center.
  > Just
  > > rip down 33 ft of zip cord, tie a knot or use the insulator, and cut
the
  > > feedlinne section to a integral half wave long (20, 40, 60etc meters
  > long).
  > > If cut to a half wave (use a dip meter) the swr of the dipole will be
  > > translated unaltered to the radio end of your feedline and 70 ohms is
OK
  > for
  > > a swr of 1.4 and the xcvr will not care usually.
  > >
  > > Great emergency antenna.
  >
  > >>Why do you think the SWR of the dipole will be unaltered at the radio
end
  > of the feedline? You are apparently >>ignoring the loss in the line that
  > makes the SWR at the radio end less than that at the dipole terminals.
  >
  > >>If the zip cord had zero loss the SWR would be the same everywhere
along
  > the line, only the terminal impedance at >>the radio end would be the
same
  > as at the dipole.
  >
  > >>Without knowing the vf (velocity factor) of the zip cord how do you
  > determine that the length is a half wave?
  >
  > >>And last, why would you want the length to be a half wave?
  >
  > >>Walt, W2DU
  >
  > I think he was correct about the half-wave length of feedline:
  > according to the ARRL Antenna Book  - 17th edition  copyright 1994   -
page
  > 24-12 in chapter 24, under the Heading "Special Cases" and under the
  > sub-heading "The Half-WaveLength Line", it pretty clearly states that
  > regardless of z, it will be the same on both ends of a half-wave line.
and
  > sections having such length can be added  or removed without changing
the
  > load Z. (as long as loss is negligible)
  >
  > Also - You don't need to know the VF if you use a dip meter (or MFJ
259) -
  > And he would want the length to be half-wave so as to be able to ignore
the
  > characteristic impedence of the zip line and deal directly with the
  > impedence of the dipole directly.

  Sorry, OM, as I told Richard in the above post, this hasn't been one of my
better days. I read that you used the MFJ 259 to measure the length, but it
just didn't register until Hall pushed it into my face. Tnx, Hal. I promise
not to get out of bed tomorrow. How much harm can I do there? Don't answer
that question.

  Walt


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



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M6A0%XH?>@?FU:,**^.7W8(P%M@7?5&8]HU==\R&THUO<=/8/12BN!Z&+$*9(
M8W8+*DA"DS5^%9$W1 +(5V]A"9@2:Q9.20V1*-GHD1-*LLC@A$\>R6":6J:%
M8T\\:47,1:-M5%4G;O)CC9C^$5B"DRJ^&..?:@IZ9'AY!IFCE7)ZZ9J45%62
M)T9^E04%BRX"VB*F;&Y:Z*%1RA7IC6KEQ)";8E5(EEACBLHJ6DZ-^<2,$3:X
MXJVV[O?@C+PZB"8TJ'5)V8::D;BA2:*>`V)J[UW82&.+@3;@;I9.VQPIE-AF
HJ^VVW'8+)0UQ6BLN<:R-:^ZYZ*:K[KKLMNONN_#&*^^\]-9+1 @`.P``
`
end



Article: 215134 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Tom Donaly" <dtdonaly@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com> <11d3g58e0argi7f@corp.supernews.com> <2ojAe.145746$on1.39889@clgrps13> <11d3h3g68cv8457@corp.supernews.com> <11d3uubthg00468@corp.supernews.com> <42d569cf$3_3@x-privat.org> <gesad1hf0qv1kfapkj92p95vff08595c7l@4ax.com> <fPgBe.1912$Rv7.568@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <sa7bd1pc7qjc8c82f5m6l1bcn94aqd1sfb@4ax.com> <lnhBe.1925$Rv7.1007@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <tk8bd1hkt7i4hb5ckln0vm4fr1cnuedohn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <URiBe.2063$mN1.28@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 01:03:48 GMT

Richard Clark wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 23:22:57 GMT, "Tom Donaly"
> <dtdonaly@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Richard Clark wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:44:27 GMT, "Tom Donaly"
>>><dtdonaly@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>It's in most country's interest
>>>>to keep their currency cheap in relation to the
>>>>dollar. 
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi Tom,
>>>
>>>Seems to be the white house monetary policy too (I wonder if they know
>>>we use the dollar?).
>>>
>>>73's
>>>Richard Clark, KB7QHC
>>
>>Hi Richard,
>>            I think the only currency they understand
>>is oil, which just appreciated mightily against the
>>dollar.
>>73,
> 
> 
> Hi Tom,
> 
> Funny about that.  Before the election, the cost of Gas taxes pushing
> a gallon over $2 would cripple us.  Instead we pay $2.50 and the
> economy is just fine thank you and the arabs get more than the tax
> revenue we didn't add.  Let's see, we pay them more, take in less tax,
> and add a 10 year off-budget item of $100 Billion.  Sounds like
> Osama's slush fund is doing better than the market.  Could be the
> golden investment for social security diversion if you didn't end up
> in a Git'mo rest home for the aged financial supporters of terrorism.
> Who knows?  Filling up your gas tank could get you to the tropics
> sooner than you might imagine.  Flown there on 'Merican Oil?  (Such
> irony anticipated in the goofs there too.)
> 
> A trillion here, and a trillion there, and soon you are talking about
> real money....  Let's see, if a million monkeys printed a million
> dollars a decade, how much would a banana cost by the next election?
> There's one chimp that doesn't care.
> 
> 73's
> Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hi Richard,
             Indeed. If you're hopelessly in debt, there's one
thing that is guaranteed to save you: runaway inflation. It
worked after Viet Nam and it will work after Iraq.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH


Article: 215135 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:36:45 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42c695c0$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42c7f8f6.3567850@news.crosslink.net> <42c832be$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <daur1o$7k4$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d3c5c5$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db1evm$eqg$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d48ff5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db3nqu$hed$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <42d5c2b1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Jim Kelley wrote:
> It is where you diverge from 
> Hecht (and Maxwell, and Born and Wolfe, and Jackson) that I take issue.

I don't diverge from them, Jim. I have simply tied a few loose
ends together using logical deduction based on the laws of physics.
So far, you have produced zero instances where I diverge from
the laws of physics. OTOH, you appear to have diverged quite often,
e.g. Maxwell's equations prove that standing waves can exist without
a rearward-traveling wave, cancelled waves don't contain energy or
momentum before they are cancelled, reflected waves are not re-
reflected by wave cancellation, there is no before and after, etc.

> PFtotal = P1 + P2 - 2*SQRT(P1*P2).  And that's where your favorite 
> equation comes from.

I have said all along that energy cannot be separated from the waves
containing the energy and that's why an energy analysis is possible.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 215136 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Jim Kelley <jwkelley@uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:46:45 -0700
Message-ID: <db4gcr$t5n$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <42c695c0$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42c7f8f6.3567850@news.crosslink.net> <42c832be$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <daur1o$7k4$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d3c5c5$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db1evm$eqg$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d48ff5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db3nqu$hed$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5c2b1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>



Cecil Moore wrote:

> Jim Kelley wrote:
> 
>> It is where you diverge from Hecht (and Maxwell, and Born and Wolfe, 
>> and Jackson) that I take issue.
> 
> 
> I don't diverge from them, Jim. I have simply tied a few loose
> ends together using logical deduction based on the laws of physics.

Yes, Richard described that process pretty accurately I thought.

> So far, you have produced zero instances where I diverge from
> the laws of physics. 

I produced three just yesterday.

> OTOH, you appear to have diverged quite often,
> e.g. Maxwell's equations prove that standing waves can exist without
> a rearward-traveling wave, cancelled waves don't contain energy or
> momentum before they are cancelled, reflected waves are not re-
> reflected by wave cancellation, there is no before and after, etc.

Please provide exact quotes.  Otherwise, you're taking liberties with 
the truth.

> I have said all along that energy cannot be separated from the waves
> containing the energy and that's why an energy analysis is possible.

Yes you have said that, whatever it means.  Born and Wolf has an 
interesting comment in the section on total reflection.  "...the 
electromagnetic field in the second medium does not disappear, only 
there is no longer a flow of energy across the boundary."

73, ac6xg



Article: 215137 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Ken Bessler" <kg0wx@NOSPAMyahoo.com>
Subject: 20m 5el Yagi Question: Gain vs Height
Message-ID: <kgkBe.8782$Eo.6158@fed1read04>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:40:17 -0500

I was modeling a 5el 20m yagi. I changed antenna
height over realistic ground. As I expected, lowering
>from 50' to 25' changed the take off angle from 18
degrees to 28 degrees.

What suprised me was the forward gain went from
14.44 dbi (@50') to 12.63 dbi (@25').

Is this normal?

--
  Just my 2¢... 73 es gd dx de Ken KGØWX
        Grid EM17ip, Flying Pigs #-1055
 Proud builder & owner of Elecraft K2 #4913 




Article: 215138 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "AAA RF Products" <info@aaarfproducts.com>
Subject: Coax Cable, Connector & Adapter Catalog 
Message-ID: <sLkBe.8787$Eo.8606@fed1read04>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:14:47 -0700

Please email or call for your free copy of our latest coax connector,
adapter, cable assembly & bulk coaxial cable catalog.

No minimum order

No handling fees.

email: sales@aaarfproducts.com
call: 949 481 3154
fax:  949 388 5448
mail: AAA RF Products, 949 Calle Amanecer, San Clemente, CA 92673 USA




Article: 215139 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:34:58 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42c695c0$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42c7f8f6.3567850@news.crosslink.net> <42c832be$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <daur1o$7k4$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d3c5c5$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db1evm$eqg$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d48ff5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db3nqu$hed$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5c2b1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db4gcr$t5n$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <42d5de67$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Jim Kelley wrote:
> 
> Cecil Moore wrote:
>> So far, you have produced zero instances where I diverge from
>> the laws of physics. 
> 
> I produced three just yesterday.

Most of your past objections are personal opinions that
have been based on a lack of understanding of what I was
saying. Please list just one law of physics from which
I have diverged. I do not think you can do that.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Article: 215140 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Hal Rosser" <hmrosser@bellsouth.net>
References: <RYVAe.29028$d5.182116@newsb.telia.net>
Subject: Re: zip cord feeding a g5rv antenna
Message-ID: <DklBe.58907$qm.24642@bignews5.bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 23:54:19 -0400

On second thought -
If you feed it like that, then it will cease to  be a G5RV.


"pegge" <pegge.j@DELETEtelia.com> wrote in message
news:RYVAe.29028$d5.182116@newsb.telia.net...
> someone tried to feed a type g5rv antenna with ´european´ zip-cord ?
> (european meaning double the Volts compared to USA, thus half amps
> for the same lamp wattage)
> Would yield a simple ant, peel the first say abt 15- 17 meters, splitting
> them up to the dipole part and the the rest X meter to a balanced tuner
etc.
> sorry if this has been up too many times, search did´nt give a clue!
>
> Tnx for info, 73 Per / sm7aha malmo, sweden
>
>




Article: 215141 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Hal Rosser" <hmrosser@bellsouth.net>
References: <42d30904$0$32206$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Subject: Re: T-wave technology
Message-ID: <pKlBe.58910$qm.10180@bignews5.bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 00:21:49 -0400

Your interest in that frequency range indicates you may have researched it
at least a little. Why don't you go first, and tell us about it. The
sensitivity to chemicals sounds like an interesting place to begin.

"Tom Ring" <news0002@taring.org> wrote in message
news:42d30904$0$32206$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
> This group has vast experience, so I was wondering what any of you have
> worked on, or just plain know about, the so called T-wave range of
> frequencies.  Which would be roughly 100GHz to 10THz.
>
> And if you have worked on it, what can you tell us about it?  It seems
> to have some interesting potential, similar to XRay in some ways, but
> also sensitive to chemical properties.
>
> tom
> K0TAR




Article: 215142 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: 20m 5el Yagi Question: Gain vs Height
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:55:07 -0700
Message-ID: <11dbvi1ep1gda24@corp.supernews.com>
References: <kgkBe.8782$Eo.6158@fed1read04>

Ken Bessler wrote:
> I was modeling a 5el 20m yagi. I changed antenna
> height over realistic ground. As I expected, lowering
> from 50' to 25' changed the take off angle from 18
> degrees to 28 degrees.
> 
> What suprised me was the forward gain went from
> 14.44 dbi (@50') to 12.63 dbi (@25').
> 
> Is this normal?

Yes. A quick run of EZNEC with example file 20m5elYa shows just about 
the same difference. Notice that the main lobe is much fatter when the 
antenna is lower -- that's what happened to the gain. Everything else 
being equal, a fatter lobe means less gain, since you have only so much 
power to spread around.

I also ran a 3D plot so I could see the Average Gain. With no other 
sources of loss, it indicates how much is lost in the ground reflection. 
The lower antenna loses about 0.4 dB more than the higher one. That 
accounts for 0.4 dB of the loss -- all the rest is because of the change 
in pattern shape.

As a further educational exercise, try modeling a dipole at those two 
heights and see what the gain difference is.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


Article: 215143 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Asimov" <Asimov@-removethis-bbs.juxtaposition.dynip.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
Message-ID: <MSGID_1=3a167=2f133.0_42d5da66@fidonet.org>
Date: Wednesday, 13 Jul 2005 23:14:08 -500
References: <1k8ad1tbls6lp2tara0chdg65mqktqejln@4ax.com>

"John Ferrell" bravely wrote to "All" (13 Jul 05  14:47:06)
 --- on the heady topic of "Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos"

 JF> From: John Ferrell <johnferrell@sprintmail.com>
 JF> Xref: aeinews alt.ham-radio.vhf-uhf:8238

 JF> Hang tough & enjoy your tower Charlie!
 JF> If it breaks, fix it. Otherwise enjoy it!

 JF> Some day I may get brave and post the pictures of my fold over-crank
 JF> up mast with the CushCraft A3 beam on it. It waves around in the wind
 JF> like a sailboat mast and flexes the I-beam gantry enough to scare the
 JF> clueless when it is time to do antenna work.

 JF> When mine breaks, I will either fix or replace, just as I have always
 JF> done...

 JF> My current worries are lightning and ice.

 JF> It has only been up about five years, time will tell.


There is a thing called metal fatigue of which I was abruptly reminded
of this spring. I was raking the lawn as I usually do and the aluminum
handle just snapped in half without any provocation. No way I could
have casually seen it but the rake was some decades old and probably
flexed all it would flex. So there you go, time is against us!

 A*s*i*m*o*v

... Give me that old time religion.  Hail, Zeus!



Article: 215144 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Owen <owen@no.where>
Subject: Re: zip cord feeding a g5rv antenna
Message-ID: <9j7cd1dum86i2lit79a821vi5lfivdt1ud@4ax.com>
References: <RYVAe.29028$d5.182116@newsb.telia.net> <42d5403a_2@news1.prserv.net> <3wcBe.4995$5R1.2280@fe07.lga> <KRfBe.53113$qm.5516@bignews5.bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 08:17:07 GMT

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:40:02 -0400, "Hal Rosser"
<hmrosser@bellsouth.net> wrote:


>I think he was correct about the half-wave length of feedline:
>according to the ARRL Antenna Book  - 17th edition  copyright 1994   - page
>24-12 in chapter 24, under the Heading "Special Cases" and under the
>sub-heading "The Half-WaveLength Line", it pretty clearly states that
>regardless of z, it will be the same on both ends of a half-wave line.  and
>sections having such length can be added  or removed without changing the
>load Z. (as long as loss is negligible)
>
>Also - You don't need to know the VF if you use a dip meter (or MFJ 259) -
>And he would want the length to be half-wave so as to be able to ignore the
>characteristic impedence of the zip line and deal directly with the
>impedence of the dipole directly.

This analysis seems to imply use of the antenna on only one one band.

Ill conceived alternative feed arrangments are the most common reason
why so-called G5RVs performs even poorer than the "genuine" article.

The original question about how well "Euro zip line" will perform will
depend on the characteristics of the line. I hazard a guess that it
will be unlikely to have a characteristic impedance as low as 75 ohms
as suggested by some, more likely 100 ohms or more. It is likely to be
PVC insulated, and lines of that type perform much poorer than a high
z line made of the same conductor, not just because of the dielectric
issue, but because the RF resistance of the conductor increases as the
spacing is reduced for very close spacings (proximity effect).

As to whether it "works" for you, you need to define your criteria for
"works". If "works" means you make some QSOs, then I am sure it
"works", but if "works" meand you want to deliver 80% plus of the
transmitter power to the "G5RV variant" antenna feedpoint on several
bands, then it is unlikely to "work".

For arguments sake, if the feedpoint Z of a 30.5m centre fed dipole
(G5RV length) on 3.6MHz is 10-j340, using the characteristics of US
Zip cord measured by K8ZOA, the loss in 25m of such feeder would be
13dB with a Zin of 563-61, so there would be some small
(insignificant) additional tuner loss. Is this what you mean by
"works"?

Owen
--


Article: 215145 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Philip de Cadenet <Philstheboss@thebbc.fslife.co.uk>
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 11:37:54 +0100
Message-ID: <iR2mZCKCCk1CFwe4@philstheboss.freeserve.co.uk>
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org>

We only sell weapons to people that aren't intending to shoot at us.

Seems this intention backfired!
-- 
Philip de Cadenet G4ZOW
Transmitters 'R' Us
http://www.transmittersrus.com


Article: 215146 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "J. Mc Laughlin" <jcm@power-net.net>
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:55:43 -0400
Message-ID: <11dckl5ba4gq4bd@corp.supernews.com>
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com> <11d3g58e0argi7f@corp.supernews.com> <2ojAe.145746$on1.39889@clgrps13> <11d3h3g68cv8457@corp.supernews.com> <11d3uubthg00468@corp.supernews.com> <42d569cf$3_3@x-privat.org> <ee782$42d570c2$97d55ac3$21439@ALLTEL.NET> <42d57505.3837622@news.iol.ie>

Dear ZZZZPK (no call, no location):

    I thought you were describing the Scots until the word "part."
        Mac   N8TT

--
J.  Mc Laughlin;   Michigan  U.S.A.
Home:  JCM@Power-Net.Net
"ZZZZPK "
<zzzpk_pkearn_class_a@its-as-easy-as-they-say-multi_band_cb_is_here.eircom.e
s.it.net> wrote in message news:42d57505.3837622@news.iol.ie...
<snip>
>
>
> So... in a NON-POLITICAL way please describe those people of the mid
> to late 1700's who went around shooting soldiers who wore REDCOATS and
> GOVERNED a land the that was at one stage part of the GREAT BRITISH
> EMPIRE and had as one of its main cities BOSTON ?
>
>
>




From ¥ Sun Jul 17 12:50:20 EDT 2005
Article: 215147 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Justín Käse <chupacabra@operamail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Tri-band Combo Vertical Counterpoise
Summary: full moon fantasy
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Expires: +7days
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Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215147

In Message-ID:<523cd1teh8eum8cbn2aihg53dm9qokn8g9@4ax.com> posted on
Thu, 14 Jul 2005 00:03:29 -0700, Richard Clark wrote: 

>On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:07:16 GMT, Justín Käse
><chupacabra@operamail.com> wrote:
>
>>Just wondering if there's any directional anomalies with the orientation
>>of the six meter counterpoise leg on a combo vertical? 
>>So far I haven't been able to detect any, seems fairly omni-directional.
>
>Hi OM,
>
>Directional anomalies, as you put it, with asymmetric counterpoises
>are academic at best.  For FM, you would have to be well below levels
>of full quieting before you noticed it (the partial dB anomaly); or in
>your case of SSB (vertical?), 

I don't have the space to put both horizontal and vertical antennas, so
the vertical was my best choice, since I will probably only be checking
into local nets which mostly operate vertical in sideband mode, thus my
concern was more toward resonance than polarity. 

>by definition (and certainly practice)
>you couldn't possibly hear less than the dB shift (for one, you would
>have no basis of comparison as you would have no way of shifting it
>in/out to discover the anomaly). 

Actually I can provide an azimuth shift, since the antenna is mounted on
the back porch pole that my TV antenna is on and is hand rotatable. 
So far I haven't experienced anything but line of sight propagation and
as I indicated can't detect any favorable lobes. but will have to await
sky conditions to see if there is any altitude skew either toward or
away from the loaded leg. 

>And on the third hand, the academic anomaly in all likelihood is in a
>direction that is wholly outside of your normal propagation usage.

Well, if it's as minimal as you suggest, I won't have to bother with
trying to accommodate it. I wonder if it's just for economy that there
aren't three loaded legs. 
-- 

JK


Article: 215148 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bart Bailey <me2@privacy.net>
Subject: Re: How would yoiu ...???
Message-ID: <42d673b4.4309307@bart.spawar.mil>
References: <i_idnX8EcYLi70vfRVn-1Q@comcast.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 14:16:56 GMT

In Message-ID:<i_idnX8EcYLi70vfRVn-1Q@comcast.com> posted on Thu, 14 Jul
2005 10:12:02 -0400, Don Baker wrote: Begin  

>I would like to be able to determine if antenna is present at the end of a
>piece of coax.  In some case antennas of type ?? would have a DC resistance
>across the coax and that makes it easy.  But..., how would you easily
>determine if a coax shows an infinite DC resistance (NO RETURN PATH) no
>current flow - like  simple did-poke.
>
>Trying to spare the group all the details of what I am doing but I will
>gladly answer any questions.  Thank you in advance for your help.
>
>Don
>

Maybe ping it with a TDR? 

-- 

Bart


Article: 215149 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 09:26:42 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: How would yoiu ...???
References: <i_idnX8EcYLi70vfRVn-1Q@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <42d67746$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Don Baker wrote:
> I would like to be able to determine if antenna is present at the end of a
> piece of coax.  In some case antennas of type ?? would have a DC resistance
> across the coax and that makes it easy.  But..., how would you easily
> determine if a coax shows an infinite DC resistance (NO RETURN PATH) no
> current flow - like  simple did-poke.

You can never be sure that someone hasn't swapped your
antenna for equivalent circuit components but the
MFJ-259B antenna analyzer works for me.
-- 
73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Article: 215150 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com>
References: <i_idnX8EcYLi70vfRVn-1Q@comcast.com>
Subject: Re: How would yoiu ...???
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:52:44 -0400
Message-ID: <24f9d$42d67c6c$97d55ac3$11218@ALLTEL.NET>

I would do a frequency sweep with an MFJ-259 or similar to cover the
frequencies of interest. A noise bridge and a receiver would be another
approach.

A few specifics would aid in pointing you in the right direction.

"Don Baker" <n2mcg@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:i_idnX8EcYLi70vfRVn-1Q@comcast.com...
> I would like to be able to determine if antenna is present at the end of a
> piece of coax.  In some case antennas of type ?? would have a DC
resistance
> across the coax and that makes it easy.  But..., how would you easily
> determine if a coax shows an infinite DC resistance (NO RETURN PATH) no
> current flow - like  simple did-poke.
>
> Trying to spare the group all the details of what I am doing but I will
> gladly answer any questions.  Thank you in advance for your help.
>
> Don
>
>




Article: 215151 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com>
References: <kgkBe.8782$Eo.6158@fed1read04>
Subject: Re: 20m 5el Yagi Question: Gain vs Height
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:57:20 -0400
Message-ID: <312ae$42d67d81$97d55ac3$11371@ALLTEL.NET>

If the take off angle changed and you still measured the lobe at the same
angle in both cases it is normal.

"Ken Bessler" <kg0wx@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kgkBe.8782$Eo.6158@fed1read04...
> I was modeling a 5el 20m yagi. I changed antenna
> height over realistic ground. As I expected, lowering
> from 50' to 25' changed the take off angle from 18
> degrees to 28 degrees.
>
> What suprised me was the forward gain went from
> 14.44 dbi (@50') to 12.63 dbi (@25').
>
> Is this normal?
>
> --
>   Just my 2¢... 73 es gd dx de Ken KGØWX
>         Grid EM17ip, Flying Pigs #-1055
>  Proud builder & owner of Elecraft K2 #4913
>
>




Article: 215152 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:31:59 -0500
Message-ID: <9647-42D6856F-357@storefull-3258.bay.webtv.net>
References: <tk8bd1hkt7i4hb5ckln0vm4fr1cnuedohn@4ax.com>

Richard Clark wrote:
"Seems to be the white house monitary opolicy too (I wonder if they know
we use the dollar?)."

The white house is dense. The U.S. has been spending 8 billion a year
just to improve Iraqi infrastructure so foreigners might invest in a
place with no law and order. The infrastructure is in desparate need of
repair from war, sabotage, crime, and neglect.

Bush needs to put aside his bias against  socialist programs, in a state
which was socialist under addam, and inaugurate WPA and PWA type
programs tp put Iraqi idle minds and hands to work now. This would
immediately put money into the hands of spenders. It would give Iraquis
a stake in the future of Iraq.

Halliburton, Kellog, Brown and Root, et al can`t do it. They aren`t
Iraqis. We`ve been unable to enforce law and order and won`t until it is
clear to be in the best interest of Iraqis to maintain law and order.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



Article: 215153 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Ron <rmrippy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: How would yoiu ...???
References: <i_idnX8EcYLi70vfRVn-1Q@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <pVwBe.162351$XQ.3404031@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:03:17 GMT

If you have an antenna present the receiver noise level should 
increase when you connect the coax.  If there is no antenna there 
should be no or much less increase in the noise level. This assumes 
you are using good low leakage coax.

Ron, W4TQT

Don Baker wrote:
> I would like to be able to determine if antenna is present at the end of a
> piece of coax.  In some case antennas of type ?? would have a DC resistance
> across the coax and that makes it easy.  But..., how would you easily
> determine if a coax shows an infinite DC resistance (NO RETURN PATH) no
> current flow - like  simple did-poke.
> 
> Trying to spare the group all the details of what I am doing but I will
> gladly answer any questions.  Thank you in advance for your help.
> 
> Don
> 
> 



Article: 215154 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:04:53 -0500
Message-ID: <11530-42D69B35-1282@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net>
References: <MSGID_1=3a167=2f133.0_42d5da66@fidonet.org>

Asimov wrote:
"There is a thing called metal fatigue of which I was strongly reminded
this spring."

Yes. It usually begins with a microscopic crack. The greater the stress,
the shorter the life. Damage is cumulative. It is affected by
temperature and surface finish.

Some metals such as steel and titanium have lower stress limits below
which they are mostlly im,mune to failure from repeated flexing. Other
metals such as aluminum and its alloys have no such immunity and
eventually fail under repeated flexing. In these, designs are kept below
the fatigue threshold for the number of stress cycles expected within
their lives. Or, a lifetime is specified and replacement is required.
Another technique is non-destructive testing to find cracks and the
piece is retired for cause.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



Article: 215155 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "tjs" <anon@anon.net>
References: <RYVAe.29028$d5.182116@newsb.telia.net> <42d5403a_2@news1.prserv.net> <3wcBe.4995$5R1.2280@fe07.lga> <KRfBe.53113$qm.5516@bignews5.bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: zip cord feeding a g5rv antenna
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 13:23:16 -0400
Message-ID: <42d6a3b9_4@news1.prserv.net>


"Hal Rosser" <hmrosser@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:KRfBe.53113$qm.5516@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
>
> I think he was correct about the half-wave length of feedline:
> according to the ARRL Antenna Book  - 17th edition  copyright 1994   -
page
> 24-12 in chapter 24, under the Heading "Special Cases" and under the
> sub-heading "The Half-WaveLength Line", it pretty clearly states that
> regardless of z, it will be the same on both ends of a half-wave line.
and
> sections having such length can be added  or removed without changing the
> load Z. (as long as loss is negligible)
>
> Also - You don't need to know the VF if you use a dip meter (or MFJ 259) -
> And he would want the length to be half-wave so as to be able to ignore
the
> characteristic impedence of the zip line and deal directly with the
> impedence of the dipole directly.
>


Exactly

I also have a W6RCA type antenna up...80m dipole in the trees 25-50 feet,
fed by 98 feet of homemade 4" spaced ladder line, and ending outside the
shack wall with a way to add-in lengths of the feed line by 1 foot, 2 foot,
4 feet or 8 feet. This allows tuning the feedline onto any ham band almost
via harmonic relationship of the bands . You endup with a multiple  halfwave
feedline and whatever swr the antenna runs shows up at the feedpoint (50
ferrite coax to ladder balun 1:1). Best antenna I have. Always better to
tune the feedline, and translate the antenna characteristic from the remote
locale to the shack wall. There is some loss I guess, but I cant detect it
or measure it, and I dont care because the antenna radiates and receives and
I get 59 reports.

Tim




Article: 215156 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: How would yoiu ...???
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:44:39 -0700
Message-ID: <11dd94dq0lrl76f@corp.supernews.com>
References: <i_idnX8EcYLi70vfRVn-1Q@comcast.com>

Either use a TDR, or something that measures RF impedance - an SWR 
meter, an impedance bridge, an antenna analyzer, or even a signal 
generator and a scope. Sure there's a path for current flow, but only 
for sure at RF, so that's where you have to detect it.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Don Baker wrote:
> I would like to be able to determine if antenna is present at the end of a
> piece of coax.  In some case antennas of type ?? would have a DC resistance
> across the coax and that makes it easy.  But..., how would you easily
> determine if a coax shows an infinite DC resistance (NO RETURN PATH) no
> current flow - like  simple did-poke.
> 
> Trying to spare the group all the details of what I am doing but I will
> gladly answer any questions.  Thank you in advance for your help.
> 
> Don
> 
> 


Article: 215157 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
Subject: Re: How would yoiu ...???
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:49:15 -0000
Message-ID: <11dd9crprn1vo9f@corp.supernews.com>
References: <i_idnX8EcYLi70vfRVn-1Q@comcast.com> <11dd94dq0lrl76f@corp.supernews.com>

In article <11dd94dq0lrl76f@corp.supernews.com>,
Roy Lewallen  <w7el@eznec.com> wrote:

>Either use a TDR, or something that measures RF impedance - an SWR 
>meter, an impedance bridge, an antenna analyzer, or even a signal 
>generator and a scope. Sure there's a path for current flow, but only 
>for sure at RF, so that's where you have to detect it.

Or, modify the antenna very slightly - put an RF choke or a
large-value resistor across its feedpoint.  This will give you
something to probe for at DC, without affecting the antenna's
performance at RF.

-- 
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org>                                   AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
  I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
     boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!


Article: 215158 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:50:22 -0500
Message-ID: <18470-42D6A5DE-113@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net>
References: <e43dd11hrrh25g5s8jc0rtngu282i59bg2@4ax.com>

Richard Clark wrote:
"This won`t happen, of course, because there is no will to win the war -
only to fight one."

When WW-2 ended, Churchill was out.

You need something like a battle to be a wartime leader. Hitler had
"Mein Kampf". He and Mussolini wore military uniforms. So did Tojo and
Stalin (Saddam`s role model). Military costumes are worn by most
Latin-American dictators. Fidel Castro (El Comandante) is an example.
Take Mexico, their revolution was almost a century ago, yet the party
which ruled the country until the last election was the Partido
Revolutionario Institutional. Got to keep that military thing alive to
be the leader of choice. Fortunately our president is required to be a
civilian.

The war may get you re-eleected no matter how bably you wage it.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



Article: 215159 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Jim Kelley <jwkelley@uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 14:02:45 -0700
Message-ID: <db6kd7$se$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <42c695c0$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42c7f8f6.3567850@news.crosslink.net> <42c832be$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <daur1o$7k4$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d3c5c5$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db1evm$eqg$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d48ff5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db3nqu$hed$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5c2b1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db4gcr$t5n$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5de67$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Cecil Moore wrote:

> Most of your past objections are personal opinions that
> have been based on a lack of understanding of what I was
> saying. 

It is my opinion that most of my past objections were based on your lack 
of understanding of what you were saying.  ;-)

> Please list just one law of physics from which
> I have diverged. I do not think you can do that.

Physics doesn't have a book of code violations, Cecil.  It's more like a 
big set of equations.  The rules are mathematical.  I've already shown 
you where you made mistakes.  What tortuous obligation have I encumbered 
that dooms me to an eternity of repeating these things to you?  Just try 
turning down the squelch a little.

73, ac6xg



Article: 215160 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
Subject: Re: J Pole
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 22:01:35 -0000
Message-ID: <11ddo5v4j982e2a@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1121278547.353890.29470@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <MI2dnWZSpcmIUUvfRVn-sg@comcast.com>


>> I have a copper tube J pole for 2m.  Is there a good way to convert it
>> to 2M/440?

>Try using it as is. I have a 2m J I made many years ago & it has a 
>decent SWR on 440 & seems to work fine.

They'll usually work as-is on 440, but aren't entirely efficient.  SWR
is higher, and so is the radiation angle - a good deal of power ends
up warming the nearby treetops and hilltops rather than going out
towards the horizon.

I've seen at least three ways suggested to construct a more-effective
dualband J-pole:

[1] Separate matching arm and feedline for 440 (the "copper cactus"
    design)
    
[2] Adding a downwards-pointing, shorted-at-the-top quarter-wavelength
    stub (coaxial or arm) partway up the radiator, leaving the distance
    between the open end of the stub and the top of the main matching arm
    equal to 1/2 wavelength at 440.  The stub presents a high
    impedance to the 440 power, constraining its current to remain
    mostly in the 1/20-wavelength-at-440 part of the radiator.
    
    Edison Fong WB6IQN published a design in QST (February 2003),
    which uses this approach to create an improved 2-meter/440
    twinlead J-pole design.  The same trick ought to work with a
    copper pipe J-pole, I imagine.  [There are some publishing errors
    in the QST version of Ed's paper... he's got a corrected version
    available, I believe.]

[3] Add a 1/2-wavelength 440 parasitic radiator, mounted next to the
    bottom of the 2-meter radiator on standoffs.
    
    This one is a bit speculative.  There's a published design on the
    ARRL website which uses this approach to improve the radiation
    angle for a center-fed vertical 2-meter/440 dipole, and I think
    the same trick ought to work for a copper-pipe J-pole if you put
    the parasitic radiator on the opposite side of the antenna from
    the matching arm.

-- 
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org>                                   AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
  I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
     boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!


Article: 215161 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Crazy George" <munsch@atglobal.net>
References: <slrnddb199.kj.ben@saturn.home.ben.com>
Subject: Re: Feed point chokes for J-poles:  how close?
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 18:41:33 -0500
Message-ID: <42d6fd33_1@news1.prserv.net>

The purpose of the choke(s) is to reduce/eliminate coupling between the antenna and feedline, thus suppressing feedline
radiation.  Running the coax inside the element effectively does this for the upper elements, so the bottom one is the
only one of concern.  However, since it will couple to all the feedlines, they all need to be choked, but only for the
frequency of the lowest element.  One simple way to do this is an isolated metal tube a quarter wave long just below the
mounting stub.

--
Crazy George
The attglobal.net address is a SPAM trap.  Please change that part to: att<dot>biz properly formatted.
"Ben Jackson" <ben@ben.com> wrote in message news:slrnddb199.kj.ben@saturn.home.ben.com...
> In a multi-band J-pole (where higher frequency j-poles are basically
> mounted on the long leg of the next lower frequency leg) can the feedpoint
> chokes for all the bands be located at the base of the antenna, or do they
> need to be kept right by the J's for each band?  The "copper cactus" has
> the feeds running up the center pole and poking out holes in the tube
> for each feedpoint.  That would require putting the chokes at the base of
> the mounting stub.
>
> --
> Ben Jackson
> <ben@ben.com>
> http://www.ben.com/




Article: 215162 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: John Ferrell <johnferrell@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
Message-ID: <boudd1dks79nfscmq9i7v9pndkq3iauu30@4ax.com>
References: <1k8ad1tbls6lp2tara0chdg65mqktqejln@4ax.com> <MSGID_1=3a167=2f133.0_42d5da66@fidonet.org>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 00:02:51 GMT

I rarely get caught with the antenna fully extended when the wind is
gusting.Thank goodness for electric winches!

Crank up masts are an entirely different kind of antenna mount. I
would not bet on it withstanding 110 mph winds in the up position, but
I am betting it will do more than that retracted!

 Wednesday, 13 Jul 2005 23:14:08 -500, "Asimov"
<Asimov@-removethis-bbs.juxtaposition.dynip.com> wrote:

>"John Ferrell" bravely wrote to "All" (13 Jul 05  14:47:06)
> --- on the heady topic of "Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos"
>
> JF> From: John Ferrell <johnferrell@sprintmail.com>
> JF> Xref: aeinews alt.ham-radio.vhf-uhf:8238
>
> JF> Hang tough & enjoy your tower Charlie!
> JF> If it breaks, fix it. Otherwise enjoy it!
>
> JF> Some day I may get brave and post the pictures of my fold over-crank
> JF> up mast with the CushCraft A3 beam on it. It waves around in the wind
> JF> like a sailboat mast and flexes the I-beam gantry enough to scare the
> JF> clueless when it is time to do antenna work.
>
> JF> When mine breaks, I will either fix or replace, just as I have always
> JF> done...
>
> JF> My current worries are lightning and ice.
>
> JF> It has only been up about five years, time will tell.
>
>
>There is a thing called metal fatigue of which I was abruptly reminded
>of this spring. I was raking the lawn as I usually do and the aluminum
>handle just snapped in half without any provocation. No way I could
>have casually seen it but the rake was some decades old and probably
>flexed all it would flex. So there you go, time is against us!
>
> A*s*i*m*o*v
>
>... Give me that old time religion.  Hail, Zeus!



Article: 215163 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Murray <radioranch@qth.com>
Subject: Re: Wow, everything is RE: here...what a disappointment
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 19:19:28 -0500
Message-ID: <11de02sik8v8r53@corp.supernews.com>
References: <RYVAe.29028$d5.182116@newsb.telia.net> <59b8d1h23v7hmrm5benk0a3ps7q8ha03e6@4ax.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Any body dealing with antennas in this group, what I read was pretty off 
color and off subject.  Want to know what a CCD antenna is really 
supposed to do compared to say a delta loop...Just put one up and it 
seems too good to be true compared to my well known hot signal 40 meter 
delta...what is your opinion and please reply all so I will get a person 
response.  dont think Ill be reading this group everyday...who cares 
about the british pound? EH?  thanks  Murray K5MDM

Richard Clark wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:44:33 GMT, "pegge" <pegge.j@DELETEtelia.com>
> wrote:
> 
>>someone tried to feed a type g5rv antenna with ´european´ zip-cord ?
>>Would yield a simple ant, peel the first say abt 15- 17 meters, splitting
>>them up to the dipole part and the the rest X meter to a balanced tuner etc.
> 
> 
> Hi Per,
> 
> Hard to apply the name g5rv to this, but that makes no difference
> anyway.  Simply call it a dipole driven with close spaced twin lead.
> That twin lead will be 50 to 70 Ohms characteristic impedance.  It
> will also have a suspect dielectric loss.  This does not make it a bad
> antenna.  There will be the usual high loss with high SWR - depending
> upon the gauge of the wire.
> 
> In short, no worse than an ordinary antenna used outside of its
> natural resonance.
> 
> 73's
> Richard Clark, KB7QHC

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tel;work:432 553 5621 Cell/ Work
tel;home:432 580 9051
note;quoted-printable:If I am buying from you, I expect  the equipment to be as stated and if=
	 not, I  expect a full refund in a timely fashion.  You can expect the=
	 same.=0D=0A=
	If you are not sure of how to judge your equipment., got to =
	=0D=0A=
	<http://www.uregs.org>   and judge it by that.   If equipment is broken=
	 in shipment  to me  ,or is not as stated, or not fully functioning,  I=
	 expect to send it back for a full timely refund.  You may expect the sam=
	e, unless a negotiated settlement is agreed to by both of us.   
url:http://www.myradioranch.com
version:2.1
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--------------010006030806060308030708--


Article: 215164 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Murray <radioranch@qth.com>
Subject: Re: Beam tilting
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 19:20:13 -0500
Message-ID: <42D7013D.2080009@qth.com>
References: <I_eBe.161061$XQ.3273869@twister.southeast.rr.com> <11db1oj5qn6greb@corp.supernews.com>

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Well, is there any dis advantage?

Roy Lewallen wrote:
> No.
> 
> Roy Lewallen, W7EL
> 
> Ron wrote:
> 
>> Is there any advantage to tilting a beam antenna up or down to match 
>> the anetnna's elevation angle of maximum gain to the angle of the 
>> received signal?  It looks like the answer is yes but not enough to 
>> justify the trouble/expense (unless you are tracking a satellite).
>>
>> Ron, W4TQT
>>

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fn:Murrray Neece
n:;Murrray Neece
adr;dom:;;2543 E. 11th;Odessa,;Texas;79761
email;internet:radioranch@qth.com
tel;work:432 553 5621 Cell/ Work
tel;home:432 580 9051
note;quoted-printable:If I am buying from you, I expect  the equipment to be as stated and if=
	 not, I  expect a full refund in a timely fashion.  You can expect the=
	 same.=0D=0A=
	If you are not sure of how to judge your equipment., got to =
	=0D=0A=
	<http://www.uregs.org>   and judge it by that.   If equipment is broken=
	 in shipment  to me  ,or is not as stated, or not fully functioning,  I=
	 expect to send it back for a full timely refund.  You may expect the sam=
	e, unless a negotiated settlement is agreed to by both of us.   
url:http://www.myradioranch.com
version:2.1
end:vcard


--------------050301040302030105010500--


Article: 215165 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Murray <radioranch@qth.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower Project Completed - Pics Online
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 19:21:36 -0500
Message-ID: <42D70190.2050004@qth.com>
References: <11bsdqpir7o54fa@news.supernews.com> <GYGdnRYbXfo5_FDfRVn-pQ@adelphia.com> <hdidnQkZw8WROFDfRVn-2A@comcast.com> <552ef$42cda9bb$97d55c31$21581@ALLTEL.NET> <ad-dnTSQS_2CTVDfRVn-hw@comcast.com> <MY2dnSa0csPyL1PfRVn-rQ@comcast.com> <NuKdnYWEdKAD3VLfRVn-3A@comcast.com> <87ef2$42d00fbe$97d55c31$2803@ALLTEL.NET> <KYudnabzMOHeHkjfRVn-hQ@comcast.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------040401000309030402040502
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Wow, look at all this crap

Zoran Brlecic wrote:
> Fred W4JLE wrote:
> 
>> So now the actions of the government are responsible for your 
>> profanity? Get
>> a life!
>>
>> You are a foul mouthed person with limited ability to express yourself 
>> with
>> out profanity, that failing, you resort to hyperbole and rants against 
>> the
>> government.
> 
> 
> You seem to have a reading comprehension problem, Fred. Nowhere did I 
> say that "the actions of the government are responsible" for anything I 
> do. I simply gave an example of the rampant hypocrisy and the false 
> morals of the so-called social conservatives whose actions somehow don't 
> match their alleged morality and perceived social and moral superiority. 
> Anything else you're reading into this is your own construct.
> The reason I cited that example is because it is almost identical to 
> your rants against my "profanity", "gutter language" and "foul mouth".
> For some strange reason you social conservatives are unable to grasp the 
> simple concept of *not* reading/watching/viewing/listening to whatever 
> offends you. Is that so difficult?
> 
>>>> Your profanity speaks more about you than your comments on the radio
>>
>>
>> tower.
>>
>>> It speaks to the people who, to cite just one recent example, go berserk
>>> and express outrage over a half a breast on national TV, yet fall
>>> strangely silent when their government invades a sovereign country using
>>> false premises and manufactured evidence, or attempts to legalize 
>>> torture.
>>>
>>> Do you really think I care what the Taliban of any religious persuasion
>>> think about me?
> 
> 
> And what's with top-posting?
> 
> 73 ... Zoran WA7AA

--------------040401000309030402040502
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8;
 name="radioranch.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="radioranch.vcf"

begin:vcard
fn:Murrray Neece
n:;Murrray Neece
adr;dom:;;2543 E. 11th;Odessa,;Texas;79761
email;internet:radioranch@qth.com
tel;work:432 553 5621 Cell/ Work
tel;home:432 580 9051
note;quoted-printable:If I am buying from you, I expect  the equipment to be as stated and if=
	 not, I  expect a full refund in a timely fashion.  You can expect the=
	 same.=0D=0A=
	If you are not sure of how to judge your equipment., got to =
	=0D=0A=
	<http://www.uregs.org>   and judge it by that.   If equipment is broken=
	 in shipment  to me  ,or is not as stated, or not fully functioning,  I=
	 expect to send it back for a full timely refund.  You may expect the sam=
	e, unless a negotiated settlement is agreed to by both of us.   
url:http://www.myradioranch.com
version:2.1
end:vcard


--------------040401000309030402040502--


Article: 215166 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: Beam tilting
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:31:56 -0700
Message-ID: <11de0vt4muq7505@corp.supernews.com>
References: <I_eBe.161061$XQ.3273869@twister.southeast.rr.com> <11db1oj5qn6greb@corp.supernews.com> <42D7013D.2080009@qth.com>

No, except maybe mechanically. The pattern of the antenna itself is 
quite broad in the vertical plane. That is, its elevation pattern is 
pretty fat unless it's a very long array, so tilting it in elevation 
doesn't make much difference. The overall elevation pattern, except at 
pretty high angles, is dictated by the ground reflection, which is 
primarily determined by the height of the antenna above the ground.

If you're working satellites or otherwise line-of-sight where no 
significant amount of ground-reflected signal hits the ground, then yes, 
you want to point the antenna at the target. But again, unless the Yagi 
is a very long one, its elevation pattern will be broad and you can be 
pretty sloppy about the elevation angle.

A few minutes spent with a modeling program will illustrate these 
effects clearly.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Murray wrote:
> Well, is there any dis advantage?
> 
> Roy Lewallen wrote:
> 
>> No.
>>
>> Roy Lewallen, W7EL
>>
>> Ron wrote:
>>
>>> Is there any advantage to tilting a beam antenna up or down to match 
>>> the anetnna's elevation angle of maximum gain to the angle of the 
>>> received signal?  It looks like the answer is yes but not enough to 
>>> justify the trouble/expense (unless you are tracking a satellite).
>>>
>>> Ron, W4TQT
>>>


Article: 215167 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "John N9JG" <john@gotwals.xremovey.com>
Subject: How to get RG-213/U from shack to exterior
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 21:52:06 -0500
Message-ID: <db78ck$uvf$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>

My shack is on the second floor, and I will be feeding a vertical with 
RG-213/U. In addition to the antenna feed line, I will also need to run a 
wire from the shack to a ground rod. The room housing the shack has one 
window, which is just to the left of the equipment table, and the window is 
an aluminum single-hung type. The house wall has aluminum siding on the 
exterior.

My current plan is to drill two holes, one for the coax and one for the 
ground wire, in the wood frame that is just below the bottom of the window. 
I expect to sell this house in the next year or two, so I want to be able to 
easily patch over any holes I have made in the wall.

Any advice and information will be gratefully received. 




Article: 215168 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
From: Ed <Huckleberry_REMOVE_@bigvalley.net>
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9693CB64BDDFDspectrumhogstarbandn@207.106.92.175>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 02:57:28 GMT


> In all honesty to those that ridiculed the tower and it's associated 
> riggings etc...I have posted photos of the damage incurred from the
> category 4 hurricane Dennis.


   According to my map you weren't hit by hurricane Dennis.....  maybe a 
bit of tropical storm.... maybe.

  

   Ed




Article: 215169 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
From: Ed <Huckleberry_REMOVE_@bigvalley.net>
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com> <11d5ddkek1b715f@corp.supernews.com> <8mg5d1l7jl9645i6nc1m0maj8ii1n4gvrb@4ax.com> <11d5il29agtucee@news.supernews.com> <d2j5d1p42ijbbk42io91f809mhb7mig37e@4ax.com> <11d5jfk6llsevec@news.supernews.com> <4uj5d111ebenscmhd8seur1qm9geantdmu@4ax.com> <11d5lomlla9k19f@news.supernews.com> <q5m5d1h9s3nj383pkh1d6qulcb7n0mrkpr@4ax.com> <ws6dnbh2ppq_BknfRVn-3Q@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9693CC0A32206spectrumhogstarbandn@207.106.92.175>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 03:01:10 GMT



> 
> http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMEI/2005/7/12/MonthlyHisto
> ry.html#calendar 
> 
> DATE   High    Avg   Gusts    Events
> 9       24       3     59      Rain , Thunderstorm
> 10      37      8     28      Rain
> 11      21      13    20      Rain
> 12      16       2     30      Thunderstorm


   Damn!   gusts to 59 and they get Federal disaster assistance?   Hell, we 
had gusts that high in the past couple months on the Oregon coast.  Maybe 
we ought to appy too?



    Ed   K7AAT



Article: 215170 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 22:56:19 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42c695c0$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42c7f8f6.3567850@news.crosslink.net> <42c832be$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <daur1o$7k4$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d3c5c5$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db1evm$eqg$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d48ff5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db3nqu$hed$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5c2b1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db4gcr$t5n$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5de67$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db6kd7$se$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <42d734e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Jim Kelley wrote:
> I've already shown you where you made mistakes.

What you have shown me are a bunch of strawmen with which
I have no arguments. As a result, I have no idea upon what
we disagree. Most of your technical assertions are true and
I agree with them. When you derived the same total
destructive interference equation that I had been posting,
including the negative power term, virtually all of our
arguments went away.

How about technically explaining in detail just one
mistake you think I have made? I need to understand
a mistake before I can correct it.

Here's a typical objection of yours, an implication with
no technical content.

> It is where you diverge from Hecht ...  that I take issue.

I sincerely have no idea where you think I diverge from Hecht
and your refusal to enlighten me is interesting. In fact, I have
quoted Hecht extensively and borrowed some of his concepts from
optics to apply to RF. His treatments of superposition and
interference are the best I have ever read. I am not aware
of any divergence from Hecht on my part. Your assertion that I
diverge from Hecht or Richard presuming to roll Hecht's eyes
for him contains zero technical content from which I learn
nothing.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Article: 215171 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 00:32:43 -0500
Message-ID: <15651-42D74A7B-87@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>
References: <e43dd11hrrh25g5s8jc0rtngu282i59bg2@4ax.com>

Richard Clark wrote:
"--this Trillion dollar sink hole is putting money down the toilet by
buying bullets to protect against suicide bombers--"

Spend some money on bomb sniffing dogs. It`s the explosions that must
end. Let the bombers find a new way to kill themselves. 

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



Article: 215172 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Asimov" <Asimov@-removethis-bbs.juxtaposition.dynip.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
Message-ID: <MSGID_1=3a167=2f133.0_42d71fff@fidonet.org>
Date: Thursday, 14 Jul 2005 22:31:36 -500
References: <11530-42D69B35-1282@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net>

"Richard Harrison" bravely wrote to "All" (14 Jul 05  12:04:53)
 --- on the heady topic of "Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos"

 RH> From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
 RH> Xref: aeinews rec.radio.amateur.antenna:34153

 RH> Some metals such as steel and titanium have lower stress limits below
 RH> which they are mostlly im,mune to failure from repeated flexing. Other
 RH> metals such as aluminum and its alloys have no such immunity and
 RH> eventually fail under repeated flexing. In these, designs are kept
 RH> below the fatigue threshold for the number of stress cycles expected
 RH> within their lives. Or, a lifetime is specified and replacement is
 RH> required. Another technique is non-destructive testing to find cracks
 RH> and the piece is retired for cause.


How can one estimate stress cycles from a wind load?

 A*s*i*m*o*v

... All the tea in china: 356,000 metric tons.



Article: 215173 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <42D764A5.803@killspam.internode.on.net>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 17:24:21 +1000
From: Alan Peake <adpeake@killspam.internode.on.net>
Subject: Re: Beam tilting
References: <I_eBe.161061$XQ.3273869@twister.southeast.rr.com>



Ron wrote:
> Is there any advantage to tilting a beam antenna up or down to match the 
> anetnna's elevation angle of maximum gain to the angle of the received 
> signal?  
Ron, I have a 12 element Yagi for TV (Horizontal) at 529 MHz and I find 
tilting it down by about 10 degrees improves the reception by a 
noticeable amount. The ground also slopes downhill by about 12 degrees 
too (in the direction I'm looking). Putting the Yagi up higher is not as 
good as having it about two feet off the ground with the downwards tilt.
The station is about 100 km away and the signal has to "bend" over a 
range of hills 40 km from my location.

Alan



Article: 215174 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: kashe@sonic.net
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower Project Completed - Pics Online
Message-ID: <020fd1lsk7t7vca1rf3sas64qupa1dik48@4ax.com>
References: <11bsdqpir7o54fa@news.supernews.com> <GYGdnRYbXfo5_FDfRVn-pQ@adelphia.com> <hdidnQkZw8WROFDfRVn-2A@comcast.com> <552ef$42cda9bb$97d55c31$21581@ALLTEL.NET> <ad-dnTSQS_2CTVDfRVn-hw@comcast.com> <70f97$42cde587$97d55c31$7403@ALLTEL.NET>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 09:25:18 GMT

On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 22:31:31 -0400, "Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com>
wrote:

>I guess then we are to conclude that you can not express outrage at a
>situation with out gutter language.
>
>You Sir are the one with flawed logic, regardless of the perceived offense
>one sees in the construction of a tower, it conveys no license to assail the
>members of the group with gutter language.
>
>Might I suggest a course in creative writing at your local adult education
>center? It may expand your vocabulary beyond the profane utterances we have
>seen so far.

	Might I suggest your pseudo-superior language adds nothing to
the discussion and makes you sound like a lamer?

	I'll bet your daily language is liberally peppered with
panty-waist words like 'inappropriate".




>
>
>
>"Zoran Brlecic" <...WA7AA...@get.lost> wrote in message
>news:ad-dnTSQS_2CTVDfRVn-hw@comcast.com...
>> Fred W4JLE wrote:
>>
>> > And your liberal use of profanity accomplishes the exact same thing. Can
>you
>> > not express yourself without sounding like you belong on Ch 19?
>>
>> Nice logic, albeit not much surprising in these "morality" driven times:
>> "liberal use of profanity" is of the same impact and scope as erecting
>> an unsafe tower.
>>
>



Article: 215175 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: kashe@sonic.net
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower Project Completed - Pics Online
Message-ID: <ja0fd1hvogl9rogc18t265m7vg6qei5s5e@4ax.com>
References: <11bsdqpir7o54fa@news.supernews.com> <GYGdnRYbXfo5_FDfRVn-pQ@adelphia.com> <hdidnQkZw8WROFDfRVn-2A@comcast.com> <552ef$42cda9bb$97d55c31$21581@ALLTEL.NET> <ad-dnTSQS_2CTVDfRVn-hw@comcast.com> <MY2dnSa0csPyL1PfRVn-rQ@comcast.com> <NuKdnYWEdKAD3VLfRVn-3A@comcast.com> <87ef2$42d00fbe$97d55c31$2803@ALLTEL.NET>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 09:32:25 GMT

On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 13:56:07 -0400, "Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com>
wrote:

>So now the actions of the government are responsible for your profanity? Get
>a life!
>
>You are a foul mouthed person with limited ability to express yourself with
>out profanity, that failing, you resort to hyperbole and rants against the
>government.
>

	Any government which thinks (as shown in the state of the
union message) that the two largest problems this country faces are
Janet Jackson's boob and the propensity of multi-million dollar
athletes using steroids to convert their nuts into raisins is well
worth ranting against.

	Yo, Shrub, ever heard of child malnutrition, able-bodied and
willing men without jobs, pissing away the national treasure
(including claiming none of Iraq's future oil profits for saving their
sorry asses) for the benefit of Halliburton? I thought not.

>
>
>
>"Zoran Brlecic" <...WA7AA...@get.lost> wrote in message
>news:NuKdnYWEdKAD3VLfRVn-3A@comcast.com...
>> Ham op wrote:
>>
>> > Your profanity speaks more about you than your comments on the radio
>tower.
>>
>> It speaks to the people who, to cite just one recent example, go berserk
>> and express outrage over a half a breast on national TV, yet fall
>> strangely silent when their government invades a sovereign country using
>> false premises and manufactured evidence, or attempts to legalize torture.
>>
>> Do you really think I care what the Taliban of any religious persuasion
>> think about me?
>



Article: 215176 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 07:03:00 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42c7f8f6.3567850@news.crosslink.net> <42c832be$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <daur1o$7k4$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d3c5c5$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db1evm$eqg$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d48ff5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db3nqu$hed$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5c2b1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db4gcr$t5n$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5de67$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db6kd7$se$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d734e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <p4jed112ol2uvrje2frr0ukmqfblgokhvm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42d7a6fa$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:
> Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>Your assertion that I
>>diverge from Hecht or Richard presuming to roll Hecht's eyes
>>for him contains zero technical content from which I learn
>>nothing.
> 
> Amusing, when I quote Hecht, it is presumption, ...

I am not objecting to your quoting Hecht. I am objecting
to you being presumptious enough to roll someone else's
eyeballs. How do you know Hecht is not rolling his
eyeballs at your postings?

The only time I remember you quoting Hecht was with some
irrelevant refraction stuff having nothing to do with
transmission lines or with the perfect laser example.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Article: 215177 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Polymath" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com> <11d3g58e0argi7f@corp.supernews.com> <2ojAe.145746$on1.39889@clgrps13> <11d3h3g68cv8457@corp.supernews.com> <11d3uubthg00468@corp.supernews.com> <42d569cf$3_3@x-privat.org> <gesad1hf0qv1kfapkj92p95vff08595c7l@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 13:33:53 +0100
Message-ID: <42d7ae72$2_3@x-privat.org>

No, no, no.

The pound is robust. The dollar is taking a long time to
catch up in value.

"Richard Clark" <kb7qhc@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:gesad1hf0qv1kfapkj92p95vff08595c7l@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:21:34 +0100, "Polymath"
> <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>Pound, Money = sort of like a dollar, but twice as valuable
> today:  $1.77  (down 10% since Christmas shopping)
>>and more robust.
> What a con job.
> 100 years ago, today:  $4.87
> 40 years ago, today:    $2.80
> 30 years ago, today:    $2.20
> 20 years ago, today:    $1.39
> 10 years ago, today:    $1.60
>
> Robust must mean slumped by  63% - One Time Constant?




Article: 215178 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "John N9JG" <john@gotwals.xremovey.com>
Subject: Re: How to get RG-213/U from shack to exterior
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 07:48:46 -0500
Message-ID: <db8bbd$f0t$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>
References: <db78ck$uvf$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu> <a4bed1dt5ki5p5st4gf3vi842bjact5mls@4ax.com>

That approach had crossed my mind, but the screen in the window cannot be 
removed without first removing the hung window. Removing the window is a 
real pain in the arse.

"Richard Clark" <kb7qhc@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:a4bed1dt5ki5p5st4gf3vi842bjact5mls@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 21:52:06 -0500, "John N9JG"
> <john@gotwals.xremovey.com> wrote:
>
>>My current plan is to drill two holes, one for the coax and one for the
>>ground wire, in the wood frame that is just below the bottom of the 
>>window.
>
> Hi John,
>
> Open the window 3".
>
> Get a piece of wood as wide as the window, and that same 3" tall.
>
> Insert the drilled piece of wood into the window.
>
> Close the window.
>
> Bar the window against 2nd story cat burglars.
>
> 73's
> Richard Clark, KB7QHC 




Article: 215179 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 10:16:02 -0500
Message-ID: <15054-42D7D332-73@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net>
References: <MSGID_1=3a167=2f133.0_42d71fff@fidonet.org>

Asimov wrote:
"How can one estimate stress cycles from  a wind load?"

Tower failure usually results from a single event or cycle of
overstress.

Radio towers are rated according to the mph or wind load ( pounds per
square foot) they will withstand while carrying all their other loads,
dead or live.

Towers do vibrate in a breeze as any tower climber can affirm. Resonant
frequency depends on construction. 

Wind vibration has brought down structures. A famous example is
"Galloping Gertie", a suspension bridge in the western U.S.A.

Deflection is limited in radio towers and elastic limits are not
exceeded. The tower section returns to its original form after each
flexing.

Stress cycles enlarge certain microscopic cracks. Examples are the Comet
airliner. Three aircraft flew apart in mid-air. It was determined that
stress cracks in the angular corners of its windows were enlarged by
pressurization / depressurization cycles. This was fixed by rounded
corners but it was too late. The first jet airliner was scrubbed.

Another example is found in high pressurre gas pipelines. Their internal
pressure cycles and this tends to enlarge microscopic cracks, if any, in
the pipe. Pipes are hydrostatically tested before placed in service (no
energy storage in water as it is incompressible) so a pipe blow out of
water won`t likely hurt a bystander. After the pipe is put in service it
is retested each year.

Radio towers are not usually flexed beyond limits by vibration but come
down due to an accident and / or extreme wind.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



Article: 215180 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Polymath" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
References: <i_idnX8EcYLi70vfRVn-1Q@comcast.com>
Subject: Re: How would yoiu ...???
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:27:17 +0100
Message-ID: <42d7d5b7$1_2@x-privat.org>

Go and take a look.

"Don Baker" <n2mcg@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:i_idnX8EcYLi70vfRVn-1Q@comcast.com...
>I would like to be able to determine if antenna is present at the end of a
> piece of coax. 




Article: 215181 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <42D7DBE9.F3C7ACBA@cbworld.com>
From: george <chicken_george@cbworld.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower Project Completed - Pics Online
References: <11bsdqpir7o54fa@news.supernews.com> <GYGdnRYbXfo5_FDfRVn-pQ@adelphia.com> <hdidnQkZw8WROFDfRVn-2A@comcast.com> <552ef$42cda9bb$97d55c31$21581@ALLTEL.NET> <ad-dnTSQS_2CTVDfRVn-hw@comcast.com> <MY2dnSa0csPyL1PfRVn-rQ@comcast.com> <NuKdnYWEdKAD3VLfRVn-3A@comcast.com> <87ef2$42d00fbe$97d55c31$2803@ALLTEL.NET> <KYudnabzMOHeHkjfRVn-hQ@comcast.com> <42D70190.2050004@qth.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:53:14 GMT

Yo Murray,

you got it right,

just like channel 12  or 21

Murray wrote:

> Wow, look at all this crap
>
> Zoran Brlecic wrote:
> > Fred W4JLE wrote:
> >
> >> So now the actions of the government are responsible for your
> >> profanity? Get
> >> a life!
> >>
> >> You are a foul mouthed person with limited ability to express yourself
> >> with
> >> out profanity, that failing, you resort to hyperbole and rants against
> >> the
> >> government.
> >
> >
> > You seem to have a reading comprehension problem, Fred. Nowhere did I
> > say that "the actions of the government are responsible" for anything I
> > do. I simply gave an example of the rampant hypocrisy and the false
> > morals of the so-called social conservatives whose actions somehow don't
> > match their alleged morality and perceived social and moral superiority.
> > Anything else you're reading into this is your own construct.
> > The reason I cited that example is because it is almost identical to
> > your rants against my "profanity", "gutter language" and "foul mouth".
> > For some strange reason you social conservatives are unable to grasp the
> > simple concept of *not* reading/watching/viewing/listening to whatever
> > offends you. Is that so difficult?
> >
> >>>> Your profanity speaks more about you than your comments on the radio
> >>
> >>
> >> tower.
> >>
> >>> It speaks to the people who, to cite just one recent example, go berserk
> >>> and express outrage over a half a breast on national TV, yet fall
> >>> strangely silent when their government invades a sovereign country using
> >>> false premises and manufactured evidence, or attempts to legalize
> >>> torture.
> >>>
> >>> Do you really think I care what the Taliban of any religious persuasion
> >>> think about me?
> >
> >
> > And what's with top-posting?
> >
> > 73 ... Zoran WA7AA



Article: 215182 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <42D7DC5D.D4D8B6DC@cbworld.com>
From: george <chicken_george@cbworld.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower Project Completed - Pics Online
References: <11bsdqpir7o54fa@news.supernews.com> <d9m4jr02tvu@news4.newsguy.com> <11bu1k0evf54aff@news.supernews.com> <11bv2l61vm5red4@corp.supernews.com> <11c0kb4s0hdg1d9@news.supernews.com> <bZmdnafecIxZTVjfRVn-2w@comcast.com> <VbWdnUxeUpeBQFjfRVn-2Q@comcast.com> <Wkmye.61939$%Z2.8135@lakeread08> <Ifpye.27243$ro.18610@fed1read02> <4Uxye.1368$BK1.479@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> <42CAAF91.50507@yahoo.com> <Mn5Ae.30769$ro.11570@fed1read02>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:55:10 GMT

We all know that that tower is a pile of junk

who in their right mind would use that sears
tower ontop of the rohn ?

The local elec. guys willl be
stopping by his qth soon to get him to remove
the unapproved guy wires on their pole.






Article: 215183 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <42D7DD68.8EBA8FDA@towerlessjake.com>
From: jake <jake@towerlessjake.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
References: <MSGID_1=3a167=2f133.0_42d71fff@fidonet.org> <15054-42D7D332-73@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:59:37 GMT

Yes, the Tacoma Narrows Bridge !

They forgot to design it for torsional forces.
Expensive lesson to learn.

It was rebuilt without the solid sides,
this allows the winds to pass between the
steel members instead of against them.

jake

Richard   wrote:

> Asimov wrote:
> "How can one estimate stress cycles from  a wind load?"
>
> Tower failure usually results from a single event or cycle of
> overstress.
>
> Radio towers are rated according to the mph or wind load ( pounds per
> square foot) they will withstand while carrying all their other loads,
> dead or live.
>
> Towers do vibrate in a breeze as any tower climber can affirm. Resonant
> frequency depends on construction.
>
> Wind vibration has brought down structures. A famous example is
> "Galloping Gertie", a suspension bridge in the western U.S.A.
>
> Deflection is limited in radio towers and elastic limits are not
> exceeded. The tower section returns to its original form after each
> flexing.
>
> Stress cycles enlarge certain microscopic cracks. Examples are the Comet
> airliner. Three aircraft flew apart in mid-air. It was determined that
> stress cracks in the angular corners of its windows were enlarged by
> pressurization / depressurization cycles. This was fixed by rounded
> corners but it was too late. The first jet airliner was scrubbed.
>
> Another example is found in high pressurre gas pipelines. Their internal
> pressure cycles and this tends to enlarge microscopic cracks, if any, in
> the pipe. Pipes are hydrostatically tested before placed in service (no
> energy storage in water as it is incompressible) so a pipe blow out of
> water won`t likely hurt a bystander. After the pipe is put in service it
> is retested each year.
>
> Radio towers are not usually flexed beyond limits by vibration but come
> down due to an accident and / or extreme wind.
>
> Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



Article: 215184 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Old Ed" <eXseniorsDeleteThisAndTheX@earthlink.net>
References: <davebg$e8h$1@domitilla.aioe.org> <oLOdnWKS1qnNMkrfRVn-3Q@comcast.com>
Subject: Re: Gap antennas, elevated radials
Message-ID: <GDRBe.8362$8f7.2392@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:37:58 GMT

"Bob McGwier (N4HY)" <xxrwmcgwiexxxr@xxxxxcomcast.xxxxxnet> wrote in message
news:oLOdnWKS1qnNMkrfRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
> Mike Speed wrote:
> > What do you guys think of the Gap Antennas - they have the Titan, etc.
> >
> > How many of you have had experience with
> > elevated radials?  Four elevated radials at the correct length and
> > height are supposed perform as well as many ground mounted radials.
> >
>
> Mine is sitting on a pile in the back of my yard, and replaced by
> a Steppir BigIR.  On 40, and 80 the Titan is nearly worthless. On
> the other bands, it is marginally useful.   Compared to a BigIR,
> fogettaboutit (I live in Jersey now).  The BigIR acts as a 3/4
> wave on 15 through 6 meters.
>
> Bob
> N4HY

Hi Bob,

Would it be a good guess that your BigIR system includes a substantial
in-ground radial system?  And do you have it guyed?

73, Ed, W6LOL





Article: 215185 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Old Ed" <eXseniorsDeleteThisAndTheX@earthlink.net>
References: <db78ck$uvf$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>
Subject: Re: How to get RG-213/U from shack to exterior
Message-ID: <QQRBe.8366$8f7.6598@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:52:00 GMT

Hi John,

It's too bad your window does not lend itself to the spacer-with-holes
approach, as I was also going to suggest that.  Does that non-removable
screen have a wide frame?  If so, maybe you could go through holes
in a window spacer, then through holes in the screen frame.

In any case, you could save yourself one of those holes in the wall by
letting your "ground" wire and the coax share one hole.

Better yet, you could forget about the "ground" wire altogether--at least
if you have a third-wire ground in your AC sockets.  A long "ground"
wire will be too puny and inductive to be any kind of RF ground.  And
if you have a power ground through the AC socket, adding a parallel
ground path will just confuse things, increase your lightning risk, and
possibly put you into a code violation.

I have only AC-socket power grounds in my second floor shack, and
I run QRO on 80 through 10 with no problems.

73, Ed, W6LOL

"John N9JG" <john@gotwals.xremovey.com> wrote in message
news:db78ck$uvf$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu...
> My shack is on the second floor, and I will be feeding a vertical with
> RG-213/U. In addition to the antenna feed line, I will also need to run a
> wire from the shack to a ground rod. The room housing the shack has one
> window, which is just to the left of the equipment table, and the window
is
> an aluminum single-hung type. The house wall has aluminum siding on the
> exterior.
>
> My current plan is to drill two holes, one for the coax and one for the
> ground wire, in the wood frame that is just below the bottom of the
window.
> I expect to sell this house in the next year or two, so I want to be able
to
> easily patch over any holes I have made in the wall.
>
> Any advice and information will be gratefully received.
>
>





Article: 215186 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bob Miller <NOSPAM@neosoft.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
Message-ID: <irvfd1h0fc030ijh90caduvflvbudi8fc6@4ax.com>
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com> <Xns9693CB64BDDFDspectrumhogstarbandn@207.106.92.175>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 18:27:37 GMT

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 02:57:28 GMT, Ed
<Huckleberry_REMOVE_@bigvalley.net> wrote:

>
>> In all honesty to those that ridiculed the tower and it's associated 
>> riggings etc...I have posted photos of the damage incurred from the
>> category 4 hurricane Dennis.
>
>
>   According to my map you weren't hit by hurricane Dennis.....  maybe a 
>bit of tropical storm.... maybe.
>
>  
>
>   Ed
>

According to the weather map he was about 100 miles from the "eye" of
a tropical depression, which is one notch below a tropical storm.

bob
k5qwg




From Whomever you wish... good luck. Sun Jul 17 12:50:28 EDT 2005
Article: 215187 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: TokaMundo <TokaMundo@weedizgood.org>
Newsgroups: uk.radio.amateur,alt.engineering.electrical,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Sender: WeedTokrsRUs
Reply-To: Whomever you wish...  good luck.
Message-ID: <c21gd1d8nvhgpd6k9b2fphuhsmk8qakb73@4ax.com>
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com> <11d3g58e0argi7f@corp.supernews.com> <2ojAe.145746$on1.39889@clgrps13> <11d3h3g68cv8457@corp.supernews.com> <11d3uubthg00468@corp.supernews.com> <42d569cf$3_3@x-privat.org> <gesad1hf0qv1kfapkj92p95vff08595c7l@4ax.com> <42d7ae72$2_3@x-privat.org>
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Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu uk.radio.amateur:236061 alt.engineering.electrical:111965 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215187

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 13:33:53 +0100, "Polymath"
<invalid@invalid.invalid> Gave us:

>No, no, no.
>
>The pound is robust. The dollar is taking a long time to
>catch up in value.

  How many stereo makers are there in Europe?

  In the seventies?  The eighties?

  PC makers?

  You wouldn't be on this forum, were it not for us.


From Whomever you wish... good luck. Sun Jul 17 12:50:28 EDT 2005
Article: 215188 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: TokaMundo <TokaMundo@weedizgood.org>
Newsgroups: uk.radio.amateur,alt.engineering.electrical,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Sender: WeedTokrsRUs
Reply-To: Whomever you wish...  good luck.
Message-ID: <g71gd11jmpvlcog3pbh9f9srcu91ibejk8@4ax.com>
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com> <11d3g58e0argi7f@corp.supernews.com> <2ojAe.145746$on1.39889@clgrps13> <11d3h3g68cv8457@corp.supernews.com> <11d3uubthg00468@corp.supernews.com> <42d569cf$3_3@x-privat.org> <gesad1hf0qv1kfapkj92p95vff08595c7l@4ax.com> <42d7ae72$2_3@x-privat.org> <77nfd19t4m12g8mr2iin6s28ebj73g9dtb@4ax.com>
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On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 09:06:04 -0700, Richard Clark <kb7qhc@comcast.net>
Gave us:

>
>Don't take this as a stick in the eye from your 'Merican cousins, our
>white house is trying to get us to grow our hair long so we can braid
>it in queues before we start doing laundry for the Chinese.  Its our
>new Social Security investment plan in the future.

  I think you'd make a good stand up comic.

  We could call you "the sad truth".


Article: 215189 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <313030303837383542D614C686@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:31:18 +0100
From: Dave Piggin <d.piggin@zetnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Coax Cable, Connector & Adapter Catalog
References: <sLkBe.8787$Eo.8606@fed1read04>


> Please email or call for your free copy of our latest coax connector,
> adapter, cable assembly & bulk coaxial cable catalog.

> No minimum order

> No handling fees.

Still not received mine or my CD-Rom!!! Dave d:-((

-- 
Amateur Radio Call Sign M1BTI, Located in Manchester England. 
Locator square IO83TK
Chairman Of Trafford Radio Club. Club Call Signs G0TRG & M1BBP
Located at Umist, University Of Manchester Institute For Science And
Technology
Share What You Know, Learn What You Dont.


Article: 215190 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Jim Kelley <jwkelley@uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 11:48:21 -0700
Message-ID: <db91ma$5bs$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <42c695c0$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42c7f8f6.3567850@news.crosslink.net> <42c832be$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <daur1o$7k4$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d3c5c5$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db1evm$eqg$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d48ff5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db3nqu$hed$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5c2b1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db4gcr$t5n$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5de67$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db6kd7$se$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d734e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Cecil Moore wrote:

> Jim Kelley wrote:
> 
>> I've already shown you where you made mistakes.
> 
> 
> What you have shown me are a bunch of strawmen with which
> I have no arguments. As a result, I have no idea upon what
> we disagree. Most of your technical assertions are true and
> I agree with them. When you derived the same total
> destructive interference equation that I had been posting,
> including the negative power term, virtually all of our
> arguments went away.
> 
> How about technically explaining in detail just one
> mistake you think I have made? I need to understand
> a mistake before I can correct it.
> 
> Here's a typical objection of yours, an implication with
> no technical content.
> 
>> It is where you diverge from Hecht ...  that I take issue.
> 
> 
> I sincerely have no idea where you think I diverge from Hecht
> and your refusal to enlighten me is interesting. In fact, I have
> quoted Hecht extensively and borrowed some of his concepts from
> optics to apply to RF. His treatments of superposition and
> interference are the best I have ever read. I am not aware
> of any divergence from Hecht on my part. Your assertion that I
> diverge from Hecht or Richard presuming to roll Hecht's eyes
> for him contains zero technical content from which I learn
> nothing.

And that is a wonderful example of the rhetorical way to hold your hands 
over your ears and hum.  :-)

So when does the article appear in Phys. Rev?

73, ac6xg



Article: 215191 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Roger Conroy" <rogerconroy@nospam.hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: How to get RG-213/U from shack to exterior
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:24:12 +0200
Message-ID: <db961d$na9$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
References: <db78ck$uvf$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu> <QQRBe.8366$8f7.6598@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>




"Old Ed" <eXseniorsDeleteThisAndTheX@earthlink.net> wrote in message 
news:QQRBe.8366$8f7.6598@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Hi John,
>
> It's too bad your window does not lend itself to the spacer-with-holes
> approach, as I was also going to suggest that.  Does that non-removable
> screen have a wide frame?  If so, maybe you could go through holes
> in a window spacer, then through holes in the screen frame.
>
> In any case, you could save yourself one of those holes in the wall by
> letting your "ground" wire and the coax share one hole.
>
> Better yet, you could forget about the "ground" wire altogether--at least
> if you have a third-wire ground in your AC sockets.  A long "ground"
> wire will be too puny and inductive to be any kind of RF ground.  And
> if you have a power ground through the AC socket, adding a parallel
> ground path will just confuse things, increase your lightning risk, and
> possibly put you into a code violation.
>
> I have only AC-socket power grounds in my second floor shack, and
> I run QRO on 80 through 10 with no problems.
>
> 73, Ed, W6LOL
>
> "John N9JG" <john@gotwals.xremovey.com> wrote in message
> news:db78ck$uvf$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu...
>> My shack is on the second floor, and I will be feeding a vertical with
>> RG-213/U. In addition to the antenna feed line, I will also need to run a
>> wire from the shack to a ground rod. The room housing the shack has one
>> window, which is just to the left of the equipment table, and the window
> is
>> an aluminum single-hung type. The house wall has aluminum siding on the
>> exterior.
>>
>> My current plan is to drill two holes, one for the coax and one for the
>> ground wire, in the wood frame that is just below the bottom of the
> window.
>> I expect to sell this house in the next year or two, so I want to be able
> to
>> easily patch over any holes I have made in the wall.
>>
>> Any advice and information will be gratefully received.
>>
>>
>
>
Replace glass with a sheet of  "Lexan" or "Perspex". Then you can drill all 
the holes you like. If you move out, put the glass back in.

73
Roger ZR3RC 




Article: 215192 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "John N9JG" <john@gotwals.xremovey.com>
Subject: Re: How to get RG-213/U from shack to exterior
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:08:20 -0500
Message-ID: <db98k2$vjb$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>
References: <db78ck$uvf$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu> <QQRBe.8366$8f7.6598@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> <db961d$na9$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Thanks for your suggestion, but among other things that sheet of plastic 
would get all frosted in the winter (it gets down to 0° F here), and the 
heat loss through the pane (roughly 27 X 27") would be quite large. Finally, 
the window has an aluminum frame and to remove either window is a big pain.

"Roger Conroy" <rogerconroy@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:db961d$na9$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> Replace glass with a sheet of  "Lexan" or "Perspex". Then you can drill 
> all the holes you like. If you move out, put the glass back in.
>
> 73
> Roger ZR3RC
> 




Article: 215193 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "John N9JG" <john@gotwals.xremovey.com>
Subject: Re: How to get RG-213/U from shack to exterior
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:15:35 -0500
Message-ID: <db991l$vsk$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>
References: <db78ck$uvf$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu> <QQRBe.8366$8f7.6598@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

The non-removable screen has a narrow aluminum frame. My current plan is to 
drill through the wood sill, and patch the holes (both interior and 
exterior) when I leave.

The ground wire will be about 12 feet long, so for the higher bands the 
ground will be ineffective unless I tune it. Actually, unless I run the end 
of an antenna into the shack and load it against ground, I should not need 
an rf ground.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions.


"Old Ed" <eXseniorsDeleteThisAndTheX@earthlink.net> wrote in message 
news:QQRBe.8366$8f7.6598@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Hi John,
>
> It's too bad your window does not lend itself to the spacer-with-holes
> approach, as I was also going to suggest that.  Does that non-removable
> screen have a wide frame?  If so, maybe you could go through holes
> in a window spacer, then through holes in the screen frame.
>
> In any case, you could save yourself one of those holes in the wall by
> letting your "ground" wire and the coax share one hole.
>
> Better yet, you could forget about the "ground" wire altogether--at least
> if you have a third-wire ground in your AC sockets.  A long "ground"
> wire will be too puny and inductive to be any kind of RF ground.  And
> if you have a power ground through the AC socket, adding a parallel
> ground path will just confuse things, increase your lightning risk, and
> possibly put you into a code violation.
>
> I have only AC-socket power grounds in my second floor shack, and
> I run QRO on 80 through 10 with no problems.
>
> 73, Ed, W6LOL
>




Article: 215194 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:25:01 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42c695c0$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42c7f8f6.3567850@news.crosslink.net> <42c832be$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <daur1o$7k4$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d3c5c5$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db1evm$eqg$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d48ff5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db3nqu$hed$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5c2b1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db4gcr$t5n$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5de67$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db6kd7$se$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d734e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db91ma$5bs$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <42d82ab2$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Jim Kelley wrote:
> And that is a wonderful example of the rhetorical way to hold your hands 
> over your ears and hum.  :-)

Please note the technical content of your posting. Once you
derived the interference equations on your own, the physical
implications are clear and you apparently cannot come up with
a disagreement between us since my conclusions were based
on those very physics energy equations that you derived from
first principles. I am not aware of any further disagreement
between us. You are welcome to discuss what you perceive as
a disagreement either here or by email.

To summarize: EM energy cannot travel at any speed except the
speed of light, cannot exist without energy, and that energy
must be conserved. If reflected energy doesn't reach the source,
it must necessarily be flowing toward the load and therefore,
must have been re-reflected (as Walter Maxwell has been saying
for decades). Having only two directions in a transmission line
makes it easy. If EM energy is not traveling in one direction,
it has to be traveling in the only other direction available.

> So when does the article appear in Phys. Rev?

No news is probably not good news.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 215195 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Jim Kelley <jwkelley@nospam.edu>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:15:37 -0700
Message-ID: <db9g98$boa$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <daur1o$7k4$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d3c5c5$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db1evm$eqg$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d48ff5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db3nqu$hed$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5c2b1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db4gcr$t5n$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5de67$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db6kd7$se$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d734e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db91ma$5bs$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d82ab2$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <vscgd1pjb3it4ji9cqp5uh4m3k1j59alv6@4ax.com>



Richard Clark wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:25:01 -0500, Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I am not aware of any further disagreement
>>between us.
> 
> 
> so short a memory....
> 
> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:46:45 -0700, Jim Kelley <jwkelley@uci.edu>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Born and Wolf has an 
>>interesting comment in the section on total reflection.  "...the 
>>electromagnetic field in the second medium does not disappear, only 
>>there is no longer a flow of energy across the boundary."
> 
> 
> your source, and yet unable or unwilling to confront this single
> observation.

Apparently that would mean the waves aren't traveling at the speed of 
light and it would violate his "waves cannot exist without energy" law 
of physics, so therefore the book is wrong.  Besides, as a reference, 
Hecht is far more maleable.  ;-)

73, ac6xg



Article: 215196 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "DOUGLAS SNOWDEN" <SNOWDEN@peoplepc.com>
Subject: Warning - N9NLU (Dave Schmidt) 
Message-ID: <DeZBe.4177$oZ.2615@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 01:17:23 GMT

Just a warning to beware of dealing with N9NLU. He promised me 175 ft of 
RG-11 coax and I sent him a money order for it. He acknowledged receiving 
the money but has not sent the coax.  This all occurred over a month and a 
half ago. He does not respond to E-mail.

I have not given up on him yet, but told him I would put out this warning.

Doug, N4IJ




Article: 215197 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "John N9JG" <john@gotwals.xremovey.com>
Subject: Pic of Butternut 80, 40, and 30 m coils
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:15:59 -0500
Message-ID: <db9qkt$aou$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>

See http://s51.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=33DG4LKQGWUW00WN9S7KHGFZKC
for a close-up of the 80, 40, and 30 meter coils (and caps) for the 
Butternut HF6V vertical antenna. 




Article: 215198 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:27:25 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <daur1o$7k4$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d3c5c5$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db1evm$eqg$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d48ff5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db3nqu$hed$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5c2b1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db4gcr$t5n$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5de67$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db6kd7$se$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d734e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db91ma$5bs$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d82ab2$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <vscgd1pjb3it4ji9cqp5uh4m3k1j59alv6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42d87fa4_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:
> Jim Kelley <jwkelley@uci.edu> wrote:
>>Born and Wolf has an 
>>interesting comment in the section on total reflection.  "...the 
>>electromagnetic field in the second medium does not disappear, only 
>>there is no longer a flow of energy across the boundary."
> 
> your source, and yet unable or unwilling to confront this single
> observation.

Since the EM energy doesn't flow across the match point boundary
toward the source, it must be redistributed in other directions.
In a transmission line, there is only one other direction, i.e.
the reflected energy is re-reflected at the match point. Wave
cancellation in a transmission line redistributes the energy in
the opposite direction as constructive interference.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 215199 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Elden Fenison <usenet@moondog.org>
Subject: Vertical longwire? Antenna recommendation?
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 03:40:05 -0000
Message-ID: <slrnddgsvb.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org>

First off, let me say I've very green when it comes to the technical end
of antennas. Most of the conversation in this group is way too deep for
me.

I am moving into an apartment that is on the top floor of a two-story
building. My deck is not only facing a large undeveloped area... but
there is a large tree that is only about arm's-length off my deck. This
tree is probably a good 100ft tall.

What I'm after here is HF antenna ideas. I am familiar with the idea of
an end-fed (more or less horizontal) longwire antenna used in
conjunction with something like an AH4 tuner. One of the problems
here... if I shoot a wire up in this tree... it will be vertical.
Another problem... because I'm on the second floor, there is no ground
connection readily available.

I could have a vertical multi-band HF antenna on a short mast on my
deck. But I'm thinking it might be advantageous to make use of this big
tree right next to my deck.

I would appreciate any ideas. Thanks in advance.

-- 
-=Elden=-
http://www.moondog.org


Article: 215200 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:42:13 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <daur1o$7k4$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d3c5c5$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db1evm$eqg$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d48ff5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db3nqu$hed$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5c2b1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db4gcr$t5n$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5de67$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db6kd7$se$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d734e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db91ma$5bs$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d82ab2$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <vscgd1pjb3it4ji9cqp5uh4m3k1j59alv6@4ax.com> <db9g98$boa$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <42d8831b$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Jim Kelley wrote:
> Richard Clark wrote:
>> Jim Kelley <jwkelley@uci.edu wrote:
>>> Born and Wolf has an interesting comment in the section on total 
>>> reflection.  "...the electromagnetic field in the second medium does 
>>> not disappear, only there is no longer a flow of energy across the 
>>> boundary."
>>
>> your source, and yet unable or unwilling to confront this single
>> observation.
> 
> Apparently that would mean the waves aren't traveling at the speed of 
> light and it would violate his "waves cannot exist without energy" law 
> of physics, so therefore the book is wrong.

Wrong. All it means is that reflected energy doesn't make it across
the match point. Seems I read that in _Reflections_ a quarter century
ago. Reflected energy traveling at the speed of light is re-reflected
at the speed of light in the opposite direction. Wave cancellation
accomplishes that feat. Regarding wave cancellation:

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/interference/waveinteractions/index.html

"... when two waves of equal amplitude and wavelength that are 180-degrees
out of phase with each other meet, they are (canceled but) not actually
annihilated. All of the photon energy present in these waves must somehow
be recovered or redistributed in a new direction, according to the law of
energy conservation. (There are only two directions available in a transmission
line.) Instead, upon meeting, the photons are redistributed to regions that
permit constructive interference, so the effect should be considered as a
redistribution of light waves and photon energy (back toward the load) rather
than the spontaneous construction or destruction of light." (Words in parentheses
are mine added for clarity.)
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 215201 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Vertical longwire? Antenna recommendation?
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 05:04:28 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dba4gs$jtg$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <slrnddgsvb.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org>


"Elden Fenison" <usenet@moondog.org> wrote in message
news:slrnddgsvb.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org...
> First off, let me say I've very green when it comes to the technical
end
> of antennas. Most of the conversation in this group is way too deep
for
> me.
>
> I am moving into an apartment that is on the top floor of a
two-story
> building. My deck is not only facing a large undeveloped area... but
> there is a large tree that is only about arm's-length off my deck.
This
> tree is probably a good 100ft tall.
>
> What I'm after here is HF antenna ideas. I am familiar with the idea
of
> an end-fed (more or less horizontal) longwire antenna used in
> conjunction with something like an AH4 tuner. One of the problems
> here... if I shoot a wire up in this tree... it will be vertical.
> Another problem... because I'm on the second floor, there is no
ground
> connection readily available.
>
> I could have a vertical multi-band HF antenna on a short mast on my
> deck. But I'm thinking it might be advantageous to make use of this
big
> tree right next to my deck.
>
> I would appreciate any ideas. Thanks in advance.
>
> -- 
> -=Elden=-
> http://www.moondog.org
=======================================

Elden,

Go vertical or steeply sloping.  Better all-round multi-band
performance than lower horizontal long wire, specially DX at the lower
frequencies. Don't worry about the wire getting mixed up with the
tree. Just avoid direct contact with foliage. Use plastic insulated
wire. No need to bother with loading coils which will spoil the
multi-band properties. Use a tuner at the lower end of the wire near
to the transmitter. A modest ground system will suffice.  Make use of
2 or 3 spaced connections to the domestic plumbing system. If possible
run a wire down the outside wall of the building to a few radials.  A
single ground rod at the bottom end will be practically useless.
Disconnect the rod and you will notice no difference. You could
consider lengthening the vertical antenna by taking the wire sideways
or sloping downwards from the top for an excellent 1/4-wave or
0.3-wave, inverted-L performance on 160m.
----
Reg, G4FGQ.




Article: 215202 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Elden Fenison <usenet@moondog.org>
Subject: Re: Vertical longwire? Antenna recommendation?
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 09:40:04 -0000
Message-ID: <slrnddhjk9.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org>
References: <slrnddgsvb.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org> <dba4gs$jtg$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

* Reg Edwards [07/16/2005 05:04 UTC]:
> Go vertical or steeply sloping.  Better all-round multi-band
> performance than lower horizontal long wire, specially DX at the lower
> frequencies.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've spent much of the evening reading the
ARRL "Stealth Amateur Radio" book. Interesting stuff. It appears that in
addition to the wire up in the tree, I'll also need some sort of RF
ground. Maybe shooting a very thin wire over the top of my building
would do the trick.

Another thing I'm considering rather than a wire in the tree, is a
Hustler 6-BTV on a short mast. I'm not clear as to which would be likely
to perform better. But one thing... with the Hustler I wouldn't have to
spring for an AH-4 tuner. 

-- 
-=Elden=-
http://www.moondog.org


Article: 215203 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 07:08:09 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Vertical longwire? Antenna recommendation?
References: <slrnddgsvb.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org> <dba4gs$jtg$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <slrnddhjk9.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org>
Message-ID: <42d8f9b0$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Elden Fenison wrote:
> It appears that in
> addition to the wire up in the tree, I'll also need some sort of RF
> ground.

You might consider a vertical dipole fed with ladder-line.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 215204 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Juul Geleick <gjgeleick@hetnet.nl>
Subject: GPA 3 Fritzel
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 14:17:47 +0200
Message-ID: <gjgeleick-5AC0B4.14174716072005@pnews10.wxs.nl>

Beste mede amateurs,
Ik heb een vertical  GPA 3 van Fritzel gekregen en die heeft een aantal 
(3) radialen.
Nu ga ik binnen kort verhuizen en wil die  antenne zo'n 1mtr. boven de 
grond plaatsen en de radialen in de grond leggen (zo'n 10cm ). Dit wil 
ik doen door ze recht naar beneden te laten lopen (ong 1 mtr dus)

Is er iemand van jullie die ervaring heeft met 

a. de GPA 3
b. de plaatsing van de radialen


dank,

Juul Geleick - PE0GJG


Article: 215205 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: JaErGiMa <jaergima@tenalp.ln>
Subject: Re: J Pole
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 14:25:30 +0200
Message-ID: <h4uhd19fp0ha3hjutum2n2nbne0e8ptc8q@4ax.com>
References: <1121278547.353890.29470@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <MI2dnWZSpcmIUUvfRVn-sg@comcast.com> <11ddo5v4j982e2a@corp.supernews.com>

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 22:01:35 -0000, dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
wrote:

>
>>> I have a copper tube J pole for 2m.  Is there a good way to convert it
>>> to 2M/440?
>
>>Try using it as is. I have a 2m J I made many years ago & it has a 
>>decent SWR on 440 & seems to work fine.
>
>They'll usually work as-is on 440, but aren't entirely efficient.  SWR
>is higher, and so is the radiation angle - a good deal of power ends
>up warming the nearby treetops and hilltops rather than going out
>towards the horizon.

The take-off angle is about 35degs!

>
>I've seen at least three ways suggested to construct a more-effective
>dualband J-pole:
>
>[1] Separate matching arm and feedline for 440 (the "copper cactus"
>    design)
>    
>[2] Adding a downwards-pointing, shorted-at-the-top quarter-wavelength
>    stub (coaxial or arm) partway up the radiator, leaving the distance
>    between the open end of the stub and the top of the main matching arm
>    equal to 1/2 wavelength at 440.  The stub presents a high
>    impedance to the 440 power, constraining its current to remain
>    mostly in the 1/20-wavelength-at-440 part of the radiator.
>    
>    Edison Fong WB6IQN published a design in QST (February 2003),
>    which uses this approach to create an improved 2-meter/440
>    twinlead J-pole design.  The same trick ought to work with a
>    copper pipe J-pole, I imagine.  [There are some publishing errors
>    in the QST version of Ed's paper... he's got a corrected version
>    available, I believe.]

Basicly an isolated piece of copper/alu pipe in the middle of the
radiator will convert the 2m j-pole into a 70cm collinear.
This trick will give you extra gain because it downs the angle of
radiation for that band considerable.

G3JAM (I'm told) tried to integrate a J-pole into a piece of PVC pipe,
back in 1981 via Wireles World. He was forced to find his solution
into a hairpin loop and variable coax in order to achieve easy and
correct matching.

I made one of flat alu strip placed in a pvc tube based on the G3JAM
design, you find this drawing here:
http://radiogaga.e-dentify.nl/pa3abk/Townsman_uk.gif
To be honest the drawing is from a Dutch hammagazine Electron jan 1991
and is based on the principle which was outlined by G3JAM in 1981.

Also have a look at the page of pa0fbk
http://www.qsl.net/pa0fbk/hampage_uk.htm (scroll down) he is using
coax and ends up into a slim design.

View it's easy to slide a piece of pipe over the radiator it's worth
to try it out. Just isolate it from the radiator. It will not disturb
the SWR on 2M.
Before you go, note down the signal report of a remote repeater (avoid
that one which is at a angle of 35 degs on a hilltop), so you can see
the difference. 
Jan/pa3abk




Article: 215206 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Fabian Kurz <usenet@fkurz.net>
Subject: Re: GPA 3 Fritzel
Date: 16 Jul 2005 12:47:51 GMT
Message-ID: <3jsdvnFrm628U1@news.dfncis.de>
References: <gjgeleick-5AC0B4.14174716072005@pnews10.wxs.nl>

Juul Geleick wrote:
> Beste mede amateurs,
> Ik heb een vertical  GPA 3 van Fritzel gekregen en die heeft een aantal 
> (3) radialen.

There is no GPA 3 afaik, I suppose you mean the GPA 30?

> Is er iemand van jullie die ervaring heeft met 
> 
> a. de GPA 3

I used the during a trip to TF and OY in 2001. It works, but
that's about it. Not too much to expect from this antenna with 3
radials only, but I guess with additional radials it will
perform a lot better.

> b. de plaatsing van de radialen

At http://www.swschwedt.de/kunden/dm2ble/dok5-8.htm there are 
several diagrams which show the radiation pattern at different
radial angles. Looks like 135 degrees yields the optimum gain. 

73,
-- 
Fabian Kurz, DJ1YFK * Dresden, Germany * http://fkurz.net/


Article: 215207 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 07:52:23 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <db1evm$eqg$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d48ff5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db3nqu$hed$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5c2b1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db4gcr$t5n$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5de67$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db6kd7$se$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d734e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db91ma$5bs$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d82ab2$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <vscgd1pjb3it4ji9cqp5uh4m3k1j59alv6@4ax.com> <42d87fa4_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <p86hd1hfvtb9m7o1nbmtf871u1o7rnp72i@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42d9040e$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:

> Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>Wave cancellation in a transmission line redistributes the energy in
>>the opposite direction as constructive interference.
> 
> It is established there is "some" amount of energy in the "second"
> medium (in other words, beyond the match point as I have
> demonstrated); it then follows there is not a total reflection (same
> demonstration), and certainly not as constructive (to what?)
> interference.

What's wrong with this picture? Looking at it upside down?
With the source on the left, the second medium is to the right
(load side) of the first medium. Of course, there is energy to
the right of the match point - because of standing waves, more
energy than exists in the first medium to the left of the match point.
There's no reflected energy in the first medium to the left of the
match point. It appears to look something like my earlier example:

  1w               |     1/4WL     |
laser-----air-----|---thin-film---|---glass---...
        1st medium |   2nd medium  | 3rd medium
         n=1.0         n=1.2222        n=1.4938
        Pfor=1w      Pfor=1.0101w     Pfor=1w
        Pref=0w      Pref=0.0101w     Pref=0w

Reflected energy is eliminated at the air to thin-film interface
because of wave cancellation (total destructive interference).
According to Hecht and every other reference I've seen, the
reflected energy involved in the wave cancellation event at the
match point joins the forward wave in the 2nd medium. Of course,
that increases the amount of energy in the 2nd medium beyond what
exists in the 1st medium. The necessary (total constructive inter-
ference) energy is contained in those standing waves in the 2nd medium.

  www.mellesgriot.com/products/optics/oc_2_1.htm

  "Clearly, if the wavelength of the incident light and the thickness
  of the film are such that a phase difference exists between reflections
  of p, then reflected wavefronts interfere destructively, and overall
  reflected intensity is a minimum. If the two reflections are of equal
  amplitude, then this amplitude (and hence intensity) minimum will be
  zero." [total destructive interference]

  "In the absence of absorption or scatter, the principle of conservation
  of energy indicates all 'lost' reflected intensity will appear as
  enhanced intensity [constructive interference energy] in the transmitted
  beam. The sum of the reflected and transmitted beam intensities is always
  equal to the incident intensity.  This important fact has been confirmed
  experimentally." [my notes]

In the above example, the laser's transmitted beam intensity is 1w.
In the 2nd medium, the reflected beam intensity is 0.0101w. The incident
intensity upon the 3rd medium is 1.0101w. "This important fact has been
confirmed experimentally." The above example is equivalent to a
matched 1/4WL transmission line section having the following
lossless characteristics.

1w XMTR--50 ohm coax--+--1/4WL 61.2 ohm coax--+--75 ohm coax--75 ohm load
           Pfor=1w            Pfor=1.0101w          Pfor=1w
           Pref=0w            Pref=0.0101w          Pref=0w
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 215208 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "DAVID BROWNE" <david.browne5@btinternet.com>
Subject: what is best for 10-40m windom or g5rv
Message-ID: <wp9Ce.791$vv6.365@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:08:12 GMT

what is best for 10-40m windom or g5rv half size

thanks dave browne 2e0 dmb




Article: 215209 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Larry <mcmlviii@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 08:49:47 -0700
Message-ID: <3jsol3Frk2rhU3@individual.net>
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com>

Charlie wrote:
> In all honesty to those that ridiculed the tower and it's associated 
> riggings etc...I have posted photos of the damage incurred from the category 
> 4 hurricane Dennis. I never expected this kind of result...live and learn I 
> suppose.  Here is the direct link..
> 
> 1. http://deepsouthnet.net/storm_damage.html
> 

Charlie, there is only one photo on that web page, shown twice.  Do you 
have a photo of any damage you took after the storm?  I could not find 
one in http://deepsouthnet.net/images/.

73
N1POP


Article: 215210 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Frank 2" <francis@spamless.carolyns-creations.com>
References: <wp9Ce.791$vv6.365@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>
Subject: Re: what is best for 10-40m windom or g5rv
Message-ID: <CoaCe.113800$HI.97043@edtnps84>
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:15:30 GMT

"DAVID BROWNE" <david.browne5@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:wp9Ce.791$vv6.365@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
> what is best for 10-40m windom or g5rv half size
>
> thanks dave browne 2e0 dmb

Both antennas are single wires.  All single wires of the same length perform
the same.  The only differences between the antennas are the losses on the
transmission lines.  The lowest loss transmission lines are open wire, or
ladder line.

Regards,

Frank




Article: 215211 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 12:20:32 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <db3nqu$hed$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5c2b1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db4gcr$t5n$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5de67$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db6kd7$se$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d734e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db91ma$5bs$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d82ab2$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <vscgd1pjb3it4ji9cqp5uh4m3k1j59alv6@4ax.com> <42d87fa4_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <p86hd1hfvtb9m7o1nbmtf871u1o7rnp72i@4ax.com> <42d9040e$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <01aid1tmrojvalnv11turjhemcdd7h08h0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42d942e7$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:
> Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>What's wrong with this picture?
> 
> Mewing sacred cows.  You got it wrong the last time, it is the same
> this time, ex post facto it is still wrong.  Whoring the names of
> references that you subsequently dismiss, deny or impeach hardly
> constitutes proof.

Assertions with no proof - ad hominem attacks - physician,
heal thyself. I furnished plenty of technical content.
You furnished less than none.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 215212 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
From: Ed <Huckleberry_REMOVE_@bigvalley.net>
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns969576FBBFCBBspectrumhogstarbandn@207.106.92.175>
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 18:39:22 GMT


> In all honesty to those that ridiculed the tower and it's associated 
> riggings etc...I have posted photos of the damage incurred from the
> category 4 hurricane Dennis. I never expected this kind of
> result...live and learn I suppose.  Here is the direct link..
> 
> 1. http://deepsouthnet.net/storm_damage.html
> 


   Glad your antenna system came through unscathed during your spell of 
increased wind.  My neighbor came home from the bar, drunk, sucessfully 
too.  Glad you both are unscathed!


   Ed


From - Sun Jul 17 12:50:33 EDT 2005
Article: 215213 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Reply-To: "Thierry" <->
From: "Thierry" <->
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Quad/ beam for portables activities ?
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:45:33 +0200
Lines: 42
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Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215213

Hi,

I need your advice. Here are my needs :
I'd like to DXing on portable at 100W SSB. I am looking for a directive
antenna displaying an interesting gain and F/B. Another factor to consider
is the price but I am not ready to build the antenna myself. The rotation of
the mast/antenna will be insured manually.
I have thus to use the lightest 2-ele quad or a 3-ele beam.

My weight being close to 65 kg the weight of this antenna should be of 20 kg
max (at first sight. I don't exactly know what weight I canb lift up, but
probably not much)
If this is a quad I think that I can still place it 3-5m high max (the lower
string being 1 to 2m over ground), for sure much higher for the beam.
The overall length of the antenna cannot exceed 4-5m and the possible boom
must be telescopic or easy to assemble as all parts could enter in a medium
size car (so elements to assemble must be 2.5m long max or so)

So I am looking for a dealer manufacturering light elements or collapsible
antennas or easy to setup (in less than 30 min-1h)
At last I prefer a full length quad or, if that exists, a quad using traps
(but I've never seen that) but the beam could use traps and the ends.
This antenna must be tuned on 20m or maybe a tri-bander 20-15-10 or
20-17-15m

Is this a dream or not ? If not, do you know some manufacturers providing
such antennas ?

Excepted Hexa-Beam Light models, I don't really know other dealers (and BBQ
is a shortened quad and quite heavy and Titanex sells only large beams and
verticals).
Do you have some good experience in the field in erecting such /P beams ?.
If you do, what model do (did) you use ?

Thanks for your comments

Thierry
ON4SKY
http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/menu-qsl.htm





Article: 215214 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Juul Geleick <gjgeleick@hetnet.nl>
Subject: Re: GPA 3 Fritzel
References: <gjgeleick-5AC0B4.14174716072005@pnews10.wxs.nl> <3jsdvnFrm628U1@news.dfncis.de>
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:43:26 +0200
Message-ID: <gjgeleick-A2E18C.20432616072005@pnews10.wxs.nl>

In article <3jsdvnFrm628U1@news.dfncis.de>,
 Fabian Kurz <usenet@fkurz.net> wrote:

> Juul Geleick wrote:
> > Beste mede amateurs,
> > Ik heb een vertical  GPA 3 van Fritzel gekregen en die heeft een aantal 
> > (3) radialen.
> 
> There is no GPA 3 afaik, I suppose you mean the GPA 30?
> 
> > Is er iemand van jullie die ervaring heeft met 
> > 
> > a. de GPA 3
> 
> I used the during a trip to TF and OY in 2001. It works, but
> that's about it. Not too much to expect from this antenna with 3
> radials only, but I guess with additional radials it will
> perform a lot better.
> 
> > b. de plaatsing van de radialen
> 
> At http://www.swschwedt.de/kunden/dm2ble/dok5-8.htm there are 
> several diagrams which show the radiation pattern at different
> radial angles. Looks like 135 degrees yields the optimum gain. 
> 
> 73,

Hi Fabian,

thanks a lot for your remarks. Stupid from me for writing in Dutch. 
Sorry for the others!


Juul -Pe0GJG


Article: 215215 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "John Smith" <assemblywizard@gmail.com>
References: <gjgeleick-5AC0B4.14174716072005@pnews10.wxs.nl> <3jsdvnFrm628U1@news.dfncis.de> <gjgeleick-A2E18C.20432616072005@pnews10.wxs.nl> <5nmid15grhn0d1atlnmitrm4o73bn4pa0t@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: GPA 3 Fritzel
Message-ID: <PldCe.169$pP3.10087571@news.sisna.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 12:37:17 -0700

I am still hunting for a "Shakespeare to English" translator--let me 
know if you see one...

John

"Richard Clark" <kb7qhc@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:5nmid15grhn0d1atlnmitrm4o73bn4pa0t@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:43:26 +0200, Juul Geleick 
> <gjgeleick@hetnet.nl>
> wrote:
>
>> Stupid from me for writing in Dutch.
>>Sorry for the others!
>
> Hi Juul,
>
> Last time I tried using a web translator for English to Dutch - the
> result was comedy.  :-)
>
> 73's
> Richard Clark, KB7QHC 




Article: 215216 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Michael R. Davis" <mrdavis01@hotmail.com>
Subject: Antenna Aperature
Message-ID: <iKdCe.9509$1Y1.5084@fe02.lga>
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:06:56 -0400

I'm reading an article about antenna aperature.  Is it correct to state 
that dipoles have a very large aperature and something like a horn 
assembly used in microwaves has a tiny aperature except for wavelength 
for which the horn is designed?

Just trying to get a handle on this advanced theory.


Article: 215217 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Crazy George" <munsch@atglobal.net>
References: <slrnddb199.kj.ben@saturn.home.ben.com>
Subject: Re: Feed point chokes for J-poles:  how close?
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:04:45 -0500
Message-ID: <42d97be9_2@news1.prserv.net>

OOPS. Forgot-the bottom of the quarter wave sleeve choke needs to be connected to the shield.

--
Crazy George
The attglobal.net address is a SPAM trap.  Please change that part to: att<dot>biz properly formatted.
"Ben Jackson" <ben@ben.com> wrote in message news:slrnddb199.kj.ben@saturn.home.ben.com...
> In a multi-band J-pole (where higher frequency j-poles are basically
> mounted on the long leg of the next lower frequency leg) can the feedpoint
> chokes for all the bands be located at the base of the antenna, or do they
> need to be kept right by the J's for each band?  The "copper cactus" has
> the feeds running up the center pole and poking out holes in the tube
> for each feedpoint.  That would require putting the chokes at the base of
> the mounting stub.
>
> --
> Ben Jackson
> <ben@ben.com>
> http://www.ben.com/




Article: 215218 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Frank" <ve6cb@nospam.telus.net>
References: <iKdCe.9509$1Y1.5084@fe02.lga>
Subject: Re: Antenna Aperature
Message-ID: <tSeCe.135979$tt5.104203@edtnps90>
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 21:20:25 GMT

"Michael R. Davis" <mrdavis01@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:iKdCe.9509$1Y1.5084@fe02.lga...
> I'm reading an article about antenna aperature.  Is it correct to state 
> that dipoles have a very large aperature and something like a horn 
> assembly used in microwaves has a tiny aperature except for wavelength for 
> which the horn is designed?
>
> Just trying to get a handle on this advanced theory.

Dipole aperture is the capture area which translates an incident field, in 
W/m^2, to the actual power received by the dipole.  For example the aperture 
for a half wave dipole is 0.13(Lambda)^2, where Lambda is the wavelength in 
meters.  A 40 m half wave dipole would therefore have an aperture  of 52 
m^2.  A horn aperture, and also a parabolic dish, aperture is the physical 
area of the mouth of the horn.

Regards.

Frank 




Article: 215219 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Charlie" <chas@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:24:01 -0500
Message-ID: <11diuoskjn7hrce@news.supernews.com>
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com> <3jsol3Frk2rhU3@individual.net>

Hi Larry,
 I intentionally posted the very same identical mage twice since there was 
no damage and no change in the image even had I taken one after the storm 
cleared.  There was no damage here at all to the station in any way.

I NEVER realized my photographic prowess would cause such a stir which 
included accusations of "misrepresentation" "spoofing"  "nice try" and 
comments about my "shit tower" "crappy installation" etc.  I was even 
ridiculed for not "being in the eye of the hurricane". Gee maybe next time I 
can request a 200 mph cat 5 hurricane to plow through my backyard.

Be that as it may since human nature and the heart of man are such I simply 
wanted to show that there was absolutely no damage.


So to "prove" there was no damage here is a link to a snap I just took of 
the tower. Geesh Louise......
1. http://deepsouthnet.net/images/100_5512.jpg

-- 

Charlie
Deep South 2 Meter SSB Net
www.deepsouthnet.net





"Larry" <mcmlviii@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:3jsol3Frk2rhU3@individual.net...
> Charlie wrote:
>> In all honesty to those that ridiculed the tower and it's associated 
>> riggings etc...I have posted photos of the damage incurred from the 
>> category 4 hurricane Dennis. I never expected this kind of result...live 
>> and learn I suppose.  Here is the direct link..
>>
>> 1. http://deepsouthnet.net/storm_damage.html
>>
>
> Charlie, there is only one photo on that web page, shown twice.  Do you 
> have a photo of any damage you took after the storm?  I could not find one 
> in http://deepsouthnet.net/images/.
>
> 73
> N1POP 




Article: 215220 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Charlie" <chas@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:24:55 -0500
Message-ID: <11diuqh6edfqqf7@news.supernews.com>
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com> <Xns969576FBBFCBBspectrumhogstarbandn@207.106.92.175>

TY Ed....President Bush has authorized emergency disaster funds for our 
county due to "increased winds!"

-- 

Charlie
Deep South 2 Meter SSB Net
www.deepsouthnet.net





"Ed" <Huckleberry_REMOVE_@bigvalley.net> wrote in message 
news:Xns969576FBBFCBBspectrumhogstarbandn@207.106.92.175...
>
>> In all honesty to those that ridiculed the tower and it's associated
>> riggings etc...I have posted photos of the damage incurred from the
>> category 4 hurricane Dennis. I never expected this kind of
>> result...live and learn I suppose.  Here is the direct link..
>>
>> 1. http://deepsouthnet.net/storm_damage.html
>>
>
>
>   Glad your antenna system came through unscathed during your spell of
> increased wind.  My neighbor came home from the bar, drunk, sucessfully
> too.  Glad you both are unscathed!
>
>
>   Ed 




Article: 215221 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Charlie" <chas@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 17:07:13 -0500
Message-ID: <11dj19nifnkpuf8@news.supernews.com>
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com>   <11d5ddkek1b715f@corp.supernews.com>   <8mg5d1l7jl9645i6nc1m0maj8ii1n4gvrb@4ax.com> <1121550135.663755.202010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Good God Almighty.....

What will it take to satisfy you folks? How about free airfare to 
Mississippi and a personal inspection of my station?  For Pete's sake!!!!!

-- 

Charlie
Deep South 2 Meter SSB Net
www.deepsouthnet.net





"spaceyfi" <spaceyfi5@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1121550135.663755.202010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> It may not reached that area but it was a large storm so you could get
> dmaging winds hundreds of miles from where the hurricane hit.  While it
> looks like the pictures don't show damage, it could be further down.
>
> Susan
> Future Ham
> 




Article: 215222 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 17:15:58 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42d5de67$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db6kd7$se$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d734e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db91ma$5bs$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d82ab2$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <vscgd1pjb3it4ji9cqp5uh4m3k1j59alv6@4ax.com> <42d87fa4_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <p86hd1hfvtb9m7o1nbmtf871u1o7rnp72i@4ax.com> <42d9040e$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <01aid1tmrojvalnv11turjhemcdd7h08h0@4ax.com> <42d942e7$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <3fmid1lc9g29fmahm0e8f2j1a806au0i33@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42d98824$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:
> Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>You furnished less than none.
> 
> Short memory in long supply.  The complete treatment in math was
> offered successfully rebutting your proposition and you have shown
> nothing new.  The negation stands.

There is zero net refraction, given by definition. So all your
refraction math was irrelevant and negated nothing. All that
exists in the example is forward energy and reflected energy
which you chose not to deal with at all.

The reason that optical engineers know so much more about power
and energy in EM waves is because that's about all they could
measure for 100 years. They don't have the luxury of measuring
the voltage in an EM light wave. And using voltage to analyze
photonic EM energy waves doesn't reveal the whole story.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 215223 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 17:18:03 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com>   <11d5ddkek1b715f@corp.supernews.com>   <8mg5d1l7jl9645i6nc1m0maj8ii1n4gvrb@4ax.com> <1121550135.663755.202010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <11dj19nifnkpuf8@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <42d988a1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Charlie wrote:
> What will it take to satisfy you folks?

Probably a bona fide after photo.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 215224 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Jim - NN7K <nn7kexk7zfg@NOSPAMsbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: GPA 3 Fritzel
References: <gjgeleick-5AC0B4.14174716072005@pnews10.wxs.nl> <3jsdvnFrm628U1@news.dfncis.de> <gjgeleick-A2E18C.20432616072005@pnews10.wxs.nl> <5nmid15grhn0d1atlnmitrm4o73bn4pa0t@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <eJfCe.3883$_%4.1510@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:18:50 GMT

At least , for you, it was a comedy-- for me, and my poor German, 
Spanish,and "Nihongo", usually good for a face slap, or lots of Guffaws!
Na-Na Ju San-- Via con Dios, Afvitersein -- Jim NN7K


Richard Clark wrote:

> 
> Hi Juul,
> 
> Last time I tried using a web translator for English to Dutch - the
> result was comedy.  :-)
> 
> 73's
> Richard Clark, KB7QHC


Article: 215225 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: jimbo <jimbo62@spamex.com>
Subject: Vertical Radiation Pattern?
Message-ID: <vmgCe.985$LC6.606@fe06.lga>
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:03:25 -0700

This may be a little off topic, but here goes anyway.

I have read somewhere that vertical antennas radiate almost nothing 
below the lowest elevation of the antenna.

So, I was wondering if a wireless router also radiates almost nothing 
below the router. (The antenna of a wireless router is usually 
pointing up.) These devices usually operate at 2.45 GHz.

I know that routers usually have other means of security, but I was 
wondering if I could also locate the router such that the radiation 
was limited or non-existent in one direction.

Thanks, jimbo


Article: 215226 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: zzzpk_pkearn_class_a@its-as-easy-as-they-say-multi_band_cb_is_here.eircom.es.it.net (ZZZZPK )
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 23:10:34 GMT
Message-ID: <42d99398.104519552@news.iol.ie>
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com> <11d3g58e0argi7f@corp.supernews.com> <2ojAe.145746$on1.39889@clgrps13> <11d3h3g68cv8457@corp.supernews.com> <11d3uubthg00468@corp.supernews.com> <42d569cf$3_3@x-privat.org> <ee782$42d570c2$97d55ac3$21439@ALLTEL.NET> <42d57505.3837622@news.iol.ie> <fm0bd1hejp2ibiaj4uhh2f41k6hr33v7cv@4ax.com>

Richard Clark <kb7qhc@comcast.net> wrote:

: The British Empire must, as one would expect, have an Emperor, and
: particularly a British Emperor.  If we scan the list of Royals over
: time, certainly Britain had an Emperor (Carausius) during the Roman


i think ( 80% sure-ish) you'll find that 
ONE of the lesser known titles of 
HRH QE II is EMPEROR



Article: 215227 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
Subject: Re: Vertical Radiation Pattern?
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 23:07:19 -0000
Message-ID: <11dj4p76id40s82@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vmgCe.985$LC6.606@fe06.lga>

>This may be a little off topic, but here goes anyway.
>
>I have read somewhere that vertical antennas radiate almost nothing 
>below the lowest elevation of the antenna.

Well, a half-wave vertical dipole in free space radiates a pattern
aimed towards the horizon.  There's significant radiation both above
and below the horizon.  There are deep nulls directly above and below
the antenna, but the null isn't terribly deep once you get more than,
say, 20 degrees on one side of the axis of the antenna.

>I know that routers usually have other means of security, but I was 
>wondering if I could also locate the router such that the radiation 
>was limited or non-existent in one direction.

I wouldn't count on this at all.  Although the pattern will be weaker
in the axis of the antenna, this sort of antenna system is not in free
space.  There are all sorts of reflections from metal objects in the
building, and these will tend to fill in the nulls to some extent.

The nulling is sufficient to help reduce interference (to some extent)
between access points located right above one another on different
floors of a building, but it's not completely effective even at that,
and should not be counted on for security or privacy.

-- 
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org>                                   AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
  I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
     boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!


Article: 215228 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: zzzpk_pkearn_class_a@its-as-easy-as-they-say-multi_band_cb_is_here.eircom.es.it.net (ZZZZPK )
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 23:14:01 GMT
Message-ID: <42d993f7.104614355@news.iol.ie>
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com> <11d3g58e0argi7f@corp.supernews.com> <2ojAe.145746$on1.39889@clgrps13> <11d3h3g68cv8457@corp.supernews.com> <11d3uubthg00468@corp.supernews.com> <42d569cf$3_3@x-privat.org> <ee782$42d570c2$97d55ac3$21439@ALLTEL.NET> <42d57505.3837622@news.iol.ie> <82c63$42d58e10$97d55ac3$28484@ALLTEL.NET>

"Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com> wrote:

: We, or more correctly our forefathers, were patriots as far as we were
: concerned, revolutionists, ingrates, and other labels as perceived by the
: British oppressors.

exactly my point.

some of the countries of TODAY who seem to POLICE THE WORLD
were themselves CREATED as a result of acts of TERRORISM.

Some of these countries ACTUALLY CELEBRATE the results of 
this TERRORISM on some day during the year.

A topic usually IGNORED.



Article: 215229 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
From: Ed <Huckleberry_REMOVE_@bigvalley.net>
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com> <Xns969576FBBFCBBspectrumhogstarbandn@207.106.92.175> <11diuqh6edfqqf7@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9695B59D6AB58spectrumhogstarbandn@207.106.92.175>
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 00:48:50 GMT

"Charlie" <chas@aol.com> wrote in news:11diuqh6edfqqf7@news.supernews.com:

> TY Ed....President Bush has authorized emergency disaster funds for our 
> county due to "increased winds!"
> 



   Yeah, I heard.   Winds gusting to 59 mph.   Just a few months ago we had 
winds gusting to 70 here on the Pacific North West coast.  Wonder why no 
one got disaster funds?



   Ed


Article: 215230 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "troll finder 2005" <deeeenoregistrar@hotmail.co.uk>
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com> <Xns969576FBBFCBBspectrumhogstarbandn@207.106.92.175> <11diuqh6edfqqf7@news.supernews.com> <Xns9695B59D6AB58spectrumhogstarbandn@207.106.92.175>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
Message-ID: <G3iCe.1412$Hd4.1200@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 00:59:18 GMT


"Ed" <Huckleberry_REMOVE_@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9695B59D6AB58spectrumhogstarbandn@207.106.92.175...
> "Charlie" <chas@aol.com> wrote in news:11diuqh6edfqqf7@news.supernews.com:
>
> > TY Ed....President Bush has authorized emergency disaster funds for our
> > county due to "increased winds!"
> >
>
>
>
>    Yeah, I heard.   Winds gusting to 59 mph.   Just a few months ago we
had
> winds gusting to 70 here on the Pacific North West coast.  Wonder why no
> one got disaster funds?
>
>
>
>    Ed

yea??
well my missus just let rip
it messured 156 on the rectum scale.
do we get a disaster funds?
:)





Article: 215231 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
From: Ed <Huckleberry_REMOVE_@bigvalley.net>
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com> <11d5ddkek1b715f@corp.supernews.com> <8mg5d1l7jl9645i6nc1m0maj8ii1n4gvrb@4ax.com> <1121550135.663755.202010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <11dj19nifnkpuf8@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9695B967E9BAAspectrumhogstarbandn@207.106.92.175>
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 01:11:11 GMT



> 
> What will it take to satisfy you folks? How about free airfare to 
> Mississippi and a personal inspection of my station?  For Pete's
> sake!!!!! 
> 

  Yah know, Charlie, in retrospect, the only thing that bothers me about 
your installation is the one guy point as shown in  100_5463.jpg  .  It 
just looks a bit unsubstantial in the picture.  I would grant that maybe in 
person, it might seem better.... however, thanks for the offer for free 
airfare, but I prefer the temps here on the Oregon coast.


  Ed   K7AAT



Article: 215232 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Michael R. Davis" <mrdavis01@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Antenna Aperature
References: <iKdCe.9509$1Y1.5084@fe02.lga> <tSeCe.135979$tt5.104203@edtnps90>
Message-ID: <UrjCe.1098$LC6.249@fe06.lga>
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:34:39 -0400

Frank wrote:

> 
> Dipole aperture is the capture area which translates an incident field, in 
> W/m^2, to the actual power received by the dipole.  For example the aperture 
> for a half wave dipole is 0.13(Lambda)^2, where Lambda is the wavelength in 
> meters.  A 40 m half wave dipole would therefore have an aperture  of 52 
> m^2.  A horn aperture, and also a parabolic dish, aperture is the physical 
> area of the mouth of the horn.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Frank 


Well, I sure read _that_ wrong!  Thanks for clearing that up.



Article: 215233 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:00:47 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42d734e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db91ma$5bs$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d82ab2$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <vscgd1pjb3it4ji9cqp5uh4m3k1j59alv6@4ax.com> <42d87fa4_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <p86hd1hfvtb9m7o1nbmtf871u1o7rnp72i@4ax.com> <42d9040e$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <01aid1tmrojvalnv11turjhemcdd7h08h0@4ax.com> <42d942e7$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <3fmid1lc9g29fmahm0e8f2j1a806au0i33@4ax.com> <42d98824$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42d9cae6$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:

> Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>There is zero net refraction, given by definition. So all your
>>refraction math was irrelevant and negated nothing. 
> 
> The math remains inviolate, exhibits the laws of conservation, and
> negate your premise.  So far you have added nothing to offset this.

Most of the reflection examples in _Optics_, by Hecht, assume
zero net refraction and I will continue to follow Hecht's lead.
(Complicating examples beyond what is needed for understanding
the principles involved is a form of obfuscation.)
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----


Article: 215234 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Larry <mcmlviii@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:55:32 -0700
Message-ID: <3ju35sFri1r8U3@individual.net>
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com> <3jsol3Frk2rhU3@individual.net> <11diuoskjn7hrce@news.supernews.com>

Charlie wrote:
> Hi Larry,
>  I intentionally posted the very same identical mage twice since there was 
> no damage and no change in the image even had I taken one after the storm 
> cleared.  There was no damage here at all to the station in any way.

Good to hear, Charlie, and thanks for the clarification.

> I NEVER realized my photographic prowess would cause such a stir which 
> included accusations of "misrepresentation" "spoofing"  "nice try" and 
> comments about my "shit tower" "crappy installation" etc.

I remind myself that we are amateurs, after all.  As such, we might do 
things differently from professionals or self-proclaimed professionals.

I also remind myself that this is Usenet, and it attracts all sorts of 
opinions and posting styles.  Not all of them are worth reading or replying.

73
N1POP


Article: 215235 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 00:15:51 -0500
Message-ID: <6294-42D9E987-132@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>
References: <hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com>

Richard Clark, KB7GHQ wrote:
"No one expects a binary engineer can (answer that)."

I have a different take on reflection of the reflected wave at the
generator. I think current results from potential difference. When there
is no difference, there is no current.

Suppose you have an ideal transformer with a perfectly centertapped
secondary. Volts are the same on both sides of the centettap but
180-degrees out of phase with respect to the centertap. Connect the
extremes together and a high current results from the short circuit.

Suppose you modify the secondary by untwisting the sentertap and this
results in two identical secondary coils. Connect these in the same
phase in parallel. No current flows between the coils because no
potential difference ever exists between the coils.

An ideal transmission line with a complete reflection at its far end is
much like the transformer with two identical secondaries. The incident
and reflected voltages are equal and at some points can completely add
or subtract.

Back at the generator connected to a line with a complete reflection at
the load end, there are  line lengths which produces a reflection
arriving back at the generator 180-degrees out of phase with the
generator voltage. This produces the equivalent of a short circuit on
the generator.

If line length results in reflected volts exactly in-phase with
generated volts, no current flows into the line once steady-state
conditions are established. This is what happens in the short-circuited
1/4-wave stub (metal insulator). It is the standoff between identical
voltages which produces the extremely high impedance at the input to the
stub.

I have not tried my Bird wattmeter on this. Maybe Cecil has and will say
I am wrong.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI 



Article: 215236 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: what is best for 10-40m windom or g5rv
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 06:39:45 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dbcufg$8sh$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <wp9Ce.791$vv6.365@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>


"DAVID BROWNE" <david.browne5@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:wp9Ce.791$vv6.365@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
> what is best for 10-40m windom or g5rv half size
>
> thanks dave browne 2e0 dmb

================================
Neither of them is anywhere near as good as a random length dipole fed
over a 450 or 600 ohm transmission line, with a tuner.

A so-called half-size G5RV is a laughing stock.
----
Reg, G4FGQ




Article: 215237 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Roger Conroy" <rogerconroy@nospam.hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Quad/ beam for portables activities ?
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 08:49:48 +0200
Message-ID: <dbcv9c$kfd$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
References: <42d955cc$1@news.vo.lu>


"Thierry" <-> wrote in message news:42d955cc$1@news.vo.lu...
> Hi,
>
> I need your advice. Here are my needs :
> I'd like to DXing on portable at 100W SSB. I am looking for a directive
> antenna displaying an interesting gain and F/B. Another factor to consider
> is the price but I am not ready to build the antenna myself. The rotation
> of
> the mast/antenna will be insured manually.
> I have thus to use the lightest 2-ele quad or a 3-ele beam.
>
> My weight being close to 65 kg the weight of this antenna should be of 20
> kg
> max (at first sight. I don't exactly know what weight I canb lift up, but
> probably not much)
> If this is a quad I think that I can still place it 3-5m high max (the
> lower
> string being 1 to 2m over ground), for sure much higher for the beam.
> The overall length of the antenna cannot exceed 4-5m and the possible boom
> must be telescopic or easy to assemble as all parts could enter in a
> medium
> size car (so elements to assemble must be 2.5m long max or so)
>
> So I am looking for a dealer manufacturering light elements or collapsible
> antennas or easy to setup (in less than 30 min-1h)
> At last I prefer a full length quad or, if that exists, a quad using traps
> (but I've never seen that) but the beam could use traps and the ends.
> This antenna must be tuned on 20m or maybe a tri-bander 20-15-10 or
> 20-17-15m
>
> Is this a dream or not ? If not, do you know some manufacturers providing
> such antennas ?
>
> Excepted Hexa-Beam Light models, I don't really know other dealers (and
> BBQ
> is a shortened quad and quite heavy and Titanex sells only large beams and
> verticals).
> Do you have some good experience in the field in erecting such /P beams ?.
> If you do, what model do (did) you use ?
>
> Thanks for your comments
>
> Thierry
> ON4SKY
> http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/menu-qsl.htm
>
>

Spiderbeam - 3 or 5 bands - 20 to 10m
www.spiderbeam.net

Easy to build, cheap, good performance, very light weight and packs up
compact.

73
Roger ZR3RC





Article: 215238 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Polymath" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com> <11d3g58e0argi7f@corp.supernews.com> <2ojAe.145746$on1.39889@clgrps13> <11d3h3g68cv8457@corp.supernews.com> <11d3uubthg00468@corp.supernews.com> <42d569cf$3_3@x-privat.org> <ee782$42d570c2$97d55ac3$21439@ALLTEL.NET> <42d57505.3837622@news.iol.ie> <fm0bd1hejp2ibiaj4uhh2f41k6hr33v7cv@4ax.com> <42d99398.104519552@news.iol.ie>
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 09:02:14 +0100
Message-ID: <42da10e1$3_1@x-privat.org>

Another one is "The Great Parasite Of Windsor"

"ZZZZPK " 
<zzzpk_pkearn_class_a@its-as-easy-as-they-say-multi_band_cb_is_here.eircom.es.it.net> 
wrote in message news:42d99398.104519552@news.iol.ie...
> Richard Clark <kb7qhc@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> : The British Empire must, as one would expect, have an Emperor, and
> : particularly a British Emperor.  If we scan the list of Royals over
> : time, certainly Britain had an Emperor (Carausius) during the Roman
>
>
> i think ( 80% sure-ish) you'll find that
> ONE of the lesser known titles of
> HRH QE II is EMPEROR
> 




Article: 215239 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Roy Lewallen <w7el@eznec.com>
Subject: Re: Antenna Aperature
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 02:01:00 -0700
Message-ID: <11dk7if37pp9q92@corp.supernews.com>
References: <iKdCe.9509$1Y1.5084@fe02.lga>

It's not advanced at all. If both antennas are equally efficient, the 
ratio of their apertures (in square wavelengths) is exactly equal to the 
gain of one relative to the other.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Michael R. Davis wrote:
> I'm reading an article about antenna aperature.  Is it correct to state 
> that dipoles have a very large aperature and something like a horn 
> assembly used in microwaves has a tiny aperature except for wavelength 
> for which the horn is designed?
> 
> Just trying to get a handle on this advanced theory.


Article: 215240 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: zzzpk_pkearn_class_a@its-as-easy-as-they-say-multi_band_cb_is_here.eircom.es.it.net (ZZZZPK )
Subject: Re: The CFA de-bagged (Was: Re: First "Del" and now "D'Alembertian"!)
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 10:21:45 GMT
Message-ID: <42da3125.144859269@news.iol.ie>
References: <42cf4d37_3@x-privat.org> <42cf5a7c$1_2@x-privat.org> <4873d1lhsk6hma9on1pfuvr5d6gae927t2@4ax.com> <11d3g58e0argi7f@corp.supernews.com> <2ojAe.145746$on1.39889@clgrps13> <11d3h3g68cv8457@corp.supernews.com> <11d3uubthg00468@corp.supernews.com> <42d569cf$3_3@x-privat.org> <ee782$42d570c2$97d55ac3$21439@ALLTEL.NET> <42d57505.3837622@news.iol.ie> <fm0bd1hejp2ibiaj4uhh2f41k6hr33v7cv@4ax.com> <42d99398.104519552@news.iol.ie> <cb-dnVWD79PkBUTfRVnyiw@brightview.com>

"Gerard Lynch" <gerrylynch@freenetname.co.uk> wrote:


: Not since 1947.

i wasnt referring to ''over here''



Article: 215241 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Elden Fenison <usenet@moondog.org>
Subject: Re: Vertical longwire? Antenna recommendation?
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 10:40:04 -0000
Message-ID: <slrnddkb7i.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org>
References: <slrnddgsvb.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org> <dba4gs$jtg$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <slrnddhjk9.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org> <1121566789.814410.79580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

* Brian Kelly [07/17/2005 02:19 UTC]:
> The wire should outperform the 6BTV by a large margin IF you have an
> even half-decent counterpoise/grounding system in place like a
> wire-over-the-roof plus Reg's plumbing system connections. You'd also
> get much more bandwidth with a wire vs. the 6BTV. A random wire can
> be used on 30M, a 6BTV cannot be used on 30M, etc.

Excellent info, thanks!

> You can put up a wire and buy a manual wire tuner like the $110 MFJ
> 941E plus the cost of the wire. I'll do the tuning manually and save
> $150-200 additional cost for any autotuner every time.

Yeah, $140 difference. Question about that though... wouldn't the AH-4
be a better choice for another reason? That reason being that the AH-4
is designed to connect to the wire directly at the feed point, whereas
the MFJ is apparently designed for in-shack use.

-- 
-=Elden=-
http://www.moondog.org


Article: 215242 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <42DA512D.2C2B85F@aol.com>
From: Clarke <guy_wire_man_not_highwire@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com>   <11d5ddkek1b715f@corp.supernews.com>   <8mg5d1l7jl9645i6nc1m0maj8ii1n4gvrb@4ax.com> <1121550135.663755.202010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <11dj19nifnkpuf8@news.supernews.com> <42d988a1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <11dj3p9kmo00id6@news.supernews.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:38:06 GMT

Good photo,

I don't like the angle between the other two guy cables,
almost 150 deg. or more !

Danger, Will Robinson, Danger !

Charlie wrote:

> Hi Cecil,
>  Here is the link (again) to the "bona fide" - A F T E R - photo just today.
>
> But ..I can hear it already.."You already repaired the damage!"
>
> 1. http://deepsouthnet.net/images/100_5512.jpg
>
> --
>
> Charlie
> Deep South 2 Meter SSB Net
> www.deepsouthnet.net
>
> "Cecil Moore" <w5dxp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:42d988a1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net...
> > Charlie wrote:
> >> What will it take to satisfy you folks?
> >
> > Probably a bona fide after photo.
> > --
> > 73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
> >
> > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> > News==----
> > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> > Newsgroups
> > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> > =----



Article: 215243 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 07:42:06 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com> <6294-42D9E987-132@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <42da5325$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Harrison wrote:
> I have not tried my Bird wattmeter on this. Maybe Cecil has and will say
> I am wrong.

No, I agree with your analysis, Richard, as far as it goes
but an expanded look will reveal some interesting facts.

Concerning open-circuited or short-circuited transmission
lines, if the voltages add up to zero, that looks like a short,
and current is at a maximum. If the currents add up to zero,
that looks like an open and the voltage is at a maximum. If
these conditions occur at the source, 100% re-reflection of
the incident reflected wave energy is guaranteed. The Bird
reads equal forward and reflected power all up and down the
feedline.

If an open-circuited 1/2WL of 50 ohm lossless feedline is
connected to a simple class-A source having a series source
impedance of 50 ohms and a voltage source of 141.4v (as in
W7EL's "Food For Thought #1) the steady-state impedance seen
by the source is an open-circuit so the source voltage is
141.4v and the source current is 0 amps. The implication is
that it is like having nothing connected at all but that's
not correct. Measuring the current at the mid-point of that
1/2WL of feedline will prove the feedline is filled with
EM wave energy which must travel at the speed of light.

The Bird will read 100w forward and 100 reflected on the
feedline. An RF current meter at the center of that 1/2WL
of feedline will read 2.828 amps. That's the sum of the
forward current and reflected current in phase, 1.414 amps
in the forward direction and 1.414 amps in the rearward
direction. 1.414^2*50 = 100w for both forward and reflected
powers. The Bird is right. Those powers are really there
supporting the forward and reflected waves and cannot be
used for any other purpose. Since the feedline is lossless,
there's no lost energy to replace so the source power output
is zero. Anything else would violate the conservation of
energy principle. Note that at the above current maximum
point, the net flow of energy is zero since the Poynting
vectors for forward and reflected power add up to zero.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----


Article: 215244 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 07:47:45 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: what is best for 10-40m windom or g5rv
References: <wp9Ce.791$vv6.365@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net> <dbcufg$8sh$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
Message-ID: <42da5478$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Reg Edwards wrote:
> A so-called half-size G5RV is a laughing stock.

The half-size G5RV is 1.5WL on 10m and the matching
feedline section is 0.5WL on 10m, a pretty good 10m
antenna with multiple radiation lobes.

It is 0.75WL on 20m fed with a 0.25WL matching
section. The Smith Chart says that's not a bad match.

It is 0.375WL on 40m fed with a 0.125WL matching
section. The Smith Chart says that's not a bad match.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 215245 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 07:55:32 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42d82ab2$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <vscgd1pjb3it4ji9cqp5uh4m3k1j59alv6@4ax.com> <42d87fa4_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <p86hd1hfvtb9m7o1nbmtf871u1o7rnp72i@4ax.com> <42d9040e$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <01aid1tmrojvalnv11turjhemcdd7h08h0@4ax.com> <42d942e7$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <3fmid1lc9g29fmahm0e8f2j1a806au0i33@4ax.com> <42d98824$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com> <42d9cae6$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <dirjd1d9g7vr4qdov3t117irmnk6b2i3er@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42da564b$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:

> Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Most of the reflection examples in _Optics_, by Hecht, assume
>> zero net refraction and I will continue to follow Hecht's lead.

> After-all if we can see
> the reflections from these anti-reflective layers, and that is
> sufficient proof to invalidate this folderol;

Following exactly the same reasoning, if we can measure loss in
all transmission lines, the concept of a lossless transmission
line is also folderol. The example I gave was designed for
clarity of understanding. If you choose to obfuscate clarity,
don't expect me to join you.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 215246 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: what is best for 10-40m windom or g5rv
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 13:09:47 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dbdlar$7mb$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <wp9Ce.791$vv6.365@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net> <dbcufg$8sh$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <42da5478$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

The ancient Smith chart may tell somebody about something.

But I'm still laughing about the ridiculous half-size G5RV.  And so,
in his grave, is Mr Varney.

Anything will work after a fashion at one frequency. It's so easy to
find one.  But by which time the DX has faded away.
----
Reg, G4FGQ




Article: 215247 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "harrogate2" <harrogate2@ntlworld.com>
References: <jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com>
Subject: Re: lightning protection
Message-ID: <zwuCe.2043$Oe4.1166@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 15:09:19 GMT


"Jerseyj" <jerseyj69@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> Hi all,
> For years I lived in an apartment and just had antenna's in the
attic ,
> but now having moved to a house in a few months I'll be putting up a
> 10-160 wire type antenna in my trees. Given the recent spate of
serious
> thunderstorms, and the accompanying lightning, I'm a bit concerned
about
> properly grouding the antenna so that I don't fry the house *smile*.
I
> know about some articles on the ARRL site, but was wondering if
anyone
> else had some ideas or pointers on how to practically do this ?
>
> Jerry

Have a look at www.furse.com

They used to do a very good pamphlet about lightning and protection.


--
Woody

harrogate2 at ntlworld dot com




Article: 215248 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
Subject: Re: lightning protection
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 16:33:37 -0000
Message-ID: <11dl2314ioj8g80@corp.supernews.com>
References: <jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com>

In article <jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
Jerseyj  <jerseyj69@comcast.net> wrote:

>For years I lived in an apartment and just had antenna's in the attic , 
>but now having moved to a house in a few months I'll be putting up a 
>10-160 wire type antenna in my trees. Given the recent spate of serious 
>thunderstorms, and the accompanying lightning, I'm a bit concerned about 
>properly grouding the antenna so that I don't fry the house *smile*.

That's a very good concern to have!

I'd encourage you to consult with a local professional (electrician)
who is familar with your local conditions (weather, soil, electrical,
and legal).

>                                                                  I
>know about some articles on the ARRL site, but was wondering if anyone 
>else had some ideas or pointers on how to practically do this ?

You might find it useful to review the following document:

  http://www.radagast.org/~dplatt/hamradio/mil-hdbk-419a-grounding.pdf
  
It's probably got more information than you want or need, but some
sections of it could be quite useful in planning your system.

Understanding the requirements of your local electrical code (which is
probably based in large part on the National Electric Code) would also
be a good idea.  The text of the NEC isn't available online as far as
I know (it's copyrighted) but I understand that most good libraries
should have a copy.

The basic approach you'd want to take, I believe, is to make sure that
the feedline is well grounded immediately before it enters your
building.  You'll probably want to hammer in a new ground rod at this
location, in order to keep the distance between grounding point and
ground to a minimum, and if you do so you should/must install a
heavy-gauge "bonding" wire between this ground rod and your building's
main grounding point (probably at the electrical service entrance).

Installing lightning/surge suppressors of one sort or another in the
feedline at the grounding point would also be a good idea.  They might
help shunt away a high-voltage spike, induced by a nearby lighting
strike, which could damage your equipment.

If your shack is not on the first floor, it'd probably be a good idea
for you to run the feedline down the wall to ground level, ground it
there, and then run it to the antenna.

You might want to consider an arrangement in which the antenna
feedline drops down from the feedpoint to ground level, is connected
to a ground rod at that point, and then runs along or through the
ground to your house (use a "direct bury" coax, in this case, to avoid
contamination of the cable by soil moisture and chemicals!).  This
could help keep direct- or near-direct-strike current away from your
house.

One of the best things you can do is to have some sort of easy-access
connector coupling, located outside the house (e.g. at the grounding
block).  If a storm seems imminent, or any time you won't be using the
rig for a while, disconnect the end of the antenna feedline and toss
it away from the house.  

-- 
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org>                                   AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
  I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
     boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!


Article: 215249 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Big Ugly <xxx@xxx.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
References: <11d5c9ls4rt5p7c@news.supernews.com> <11d5ddkek1b715f@corp.supernews.com> <8mg5d1l7jl9645i6nc1m0maj8ii1n4gvrb@4ax.com> <1121550135.663755.202010@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <11dj19nifnkpuf8@news.supernews.com> <42d988a1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <11dj3p9kmo00id6@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <xxx-A7C7A6.11365317072005@news-rdr-03.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 16:36:52 GMT

In article <11dj3p9kmo00id6@news.supernews.com>,
 "Charlie" <chas@aol.com> wrote:

> Hi Cecil,
>  Here is the link (again) to the "bona fide" - A F T E R - photo just today.
> 
> But ..I can hear it already.."You already repaired the damage!"
> 
> 1. http://deepsouthnet.net/images/100_5512.jpg

looks touched up


Article: 215250 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Resistor Frequency Response
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 17:01:48 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dbe2ts$cja$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>

FREQUENCY RESPONSE OF RESISTORS.

Program METALFLM.exe   41 Kbytes.

This program models small low-wattage wire-ended resistors including
spiralled metal-film resistors. The model's equivalent circuit is a
chain of T and L networks. Values of lumped inductance and stray
capacitance are estimated by the program from the component's physical
dimensions.

The component with it's terminating leads is treated as a lumped L and
C non-uniform transmission line. The program computes input impedance
>from 10 KHz up to 5 GHz with the other end grounded. Fast and slow
frequency sweeps are available to observe maxima and minima of Zin.

Max and min Zin are approximately related to the physical length of
the component, including connecting leads, but occur at frequencies
far higher than the usual and useful working frequency range.

The reflection cefficient and standing-wave-ratio are calculated with
reference to Zo, Zo being the DC value of the resistor. The usefulness
of the component as a dummy load or for other purposes at any
frequency can then be ascertained.

The effectiveness versus frequency of solid carbon-rod resistors and
multi-turn UHF chokes, which are of similar wire-end construction, can
also be determined. Chokes can be wound over the bodies of high-value
wire-ended resistors, the parallel resistance value perhaps having
some desirable effect on the ultimate response.

Another use for resistors having a good high frequency response, or at
least a known frequency response, is for ratio arms and switched
resistors in impedance bridges and other measuring instruments.

Download METALFLM in a few seconds and run immediately.
----
...........................................................
Regards from Reg, G4FGQ
For Free Radio Design Software go to
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
...........................................................




Article: 215251 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Old Ed" <eXseniorsDeleteThisAndTheX@earthlink.net>
References: <dbe2ts$cja$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
Subject: Re: Resistor Frequency Response
Message-ID: <HlxCe.6288$BK1.2693@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 18:22:31 GMT

Hi Reg,

Thanks for making more of your handiwork available to the group!

Any idea how the model predictions track with real-world measure-
ments on various kinds of resistors?

Many years back in our GTE (now Verizon) RF development lab,
we found that we could make much better impromptu RF terminations
using big 2W carbon resistors than with the smaller sizes.  It seems
the internal carbon rod was closer to the surrounding BNC connector,
thus producing less of an impedance bump.  These impromptu loads
 worked fine to beyond 500 MHz if the "outside" lead was just bent
over and soldered to the connector shell.  But if a metal disk was used
between the lead and shell, the upper end was extended to 1+ GHz.
(Shouldn't try to push a BNC beyond that anyway!)

Ed

"Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:dbe2ts$cja$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> FREQUENCY RESPONSE OF RESISTORS.
>
> Program METALFLM.exe   41 Kbytes.
>
> This program models small low-wattage wire-ended resistors including
> spiralled metal-film resistors. The model's equivalent circuit is a
> chain of T and L networks. Values of lumped inductance and stray
> capacitance are estimated by the program from the component's physical
> dimensions.
>
> The component with it's terminating leads is treated as a lumped L and
> C non-uniform transmission line. The program computes input impedance
> from 10 KHz up to 5 GHz with the other end grounded. Fast and slow
> frequency sweeps are available to observe maxima and minima of Zin.
>
> Max and min Zin are approximately related to the physical length of
> the component, including connecting leads, but occur at frequencies
> far higher than the usual and useful working frequency range.
>
> The reflection cefficient and standing-wave-ratio are calculated with
> reference to Zo, Zo being the DC value of the resistor. The usefulness
> of the component as a dummy load or for other purposes at any
> frequency can then be ascertained.
>
> The effectiveness versus frequency of solid carbon-rod resistors and
> multi-turn UHF chokes, which are of similar wire-end construction, can
> also be determined. Chokes can be wound over the bodies of high-value
> wire-ended resistors, the parallel resistance value perhaps having
> some desirable effect on the ultimate response.
>
> Another use for resistors having a good high frequency response, or at
> least a known frequency response, is for ratio arms and switched
> resistors in impedance bridges and other measuring instruments.
>
> Download METALFLM in a few seconds and run immediately.
> ----
> ...........................................................
> Regards from Reg, G4FGQ
> For Free Radio Design Software go to
> http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
> ...........................................................
>
>




Article: 215252 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Old Ed" <eXseniorsDeleteThisAndTheX@earthlink.net>
References: <jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com> <11dl2314ioj8g80@corp.supernews.com>
Subject: Re: lightning protection
Message-ID: <IlxCe.6289$BK1.4485@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 18:22:32 GMT

Hi Jerry,

Dave's comments are accurate and helpful, in almost every case.
But there is the possibility of a very substantial simplification here.

The Key Question:  Do you need or want to operate your rig during
electrical storms?

If the answer is YES, then you better do everything Dave suggests--
and possibly a whole lot more.  Praying a little might also be helpful.

But if the answer is NO, then you would probably do just fine
(with respect to antenna-specific risk) using the last suggestion only:

> One of the best things you can do is to have some sort of easy-access
> connector coupling, located outside the house (e.g. at the grounding
> block).  If a storm seems imminent, or any time you won't be using the
> rig for a while, disconnect the end of the antenna feedline and toss
> it away from the house.

The main thing to remember on this one is that the more CONVENIENT
you make your disconnect, the more likely it will be that you'll actually
USE it appropriately.

73, Ed, W6LOL




Article: 215253 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Old Ed" <eXseniorsDeleteThisAndTheX@earthlink.net>
References: <wp9Ce.791$vv6.365@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net> <dbcufg$8sh$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <42da5478$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <dbdlar$7mb$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
Subject: Re: what is best for 10-40m windom or g5rv
Message-ID: <JlxCe.6290$BK1.3216@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 18:22:33 GMT

Uhhhh, Reg...

Don't look now, but:

1.  The equations underlying the Smith Chart don't become more
      valid when they are programmed into a computer.

2.  Antennas scale with frequency, as you are undoubtedly aware.
     So a half-size antenna used at twice the frequency is neither
     more nor less "ridiculous" than the "full-sized" version.

3.  The "not bad" matches Cecil was talking about were/are
     achieved WITHOUT the use of an outboard antenna tuner.
     So our hypothetical G5RV/2 DX chaser just might bag the
     quarry while you are still getting your tuner on frequency.

Ed

"Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:dbdlar$7mb$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> The ancient Smith chart may tell somebody about something.
>
> But I'm still laughing about the ridiculous half-size G5RV.  And so,
> in his grave, is Mr Varney.
>
> Anything will work after a fashion at one frequency. It's so easy to
> find one.  But by which time the DX has faded away.
> ----
> Reg, G4FGQ
>
>




Article: 215254 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "John Smith" <assemblywizard@gmail.com>
References: <jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com>
Subject: Re: lightning protection
Message-ID: <0ExCe.35$An2.2190373@news.sisna.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 11:41:59 -0700

For a receiving antenna, a coherer provides excellent lightning 
protection.

Unfortuantly, on a transmitting antenna, the rf would immediately make 
the coherer conductive and a direct short to ground (perhaps very low 
QRP power could be used?)

One can easily be construted with a bottle filled with metal filings, 
two bare wires are inserted into the filings (not touching and 
seperated by a substantial amount of the filings), one wire goes to a 
good earth ground, the other to the antenna.

If the coherer shorts to ground it only needs to be shaken to reset (I 
would suspect in a real lightning strike the metal would be fused, 
quite possibly even vaporized.)

John

"Jerseyj" <jerseyj69@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> Hi all,
> For years I lived in an apartment and just had antenna's in the 
> attic ,
> but now having moved to a house in a few months I'll be putting up a
> 10-160 wire type antenna in my trees. Given the recent spate of 
> serious
> thunderstorms, and the accompanying lightning, I'm a bit concerned 
> about
> properly grouding the antenna so that I don't fry the house *smile*. 
> I
> know about some articles on the ARRL site, but was wondering if 
> anyone
> else had some ideas or pointers on how to practically do this ?
>
> Jerry 




Article: 215255 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bob Miller <NOSPAM@neosoft.com>
Subject: Re: lightning protection
Message-ID: <pqald1pam4gtvhr8vhpdja4jm75tb1khj1@4ax.com>
References: <jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 19:08:42 GMT

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 08:07:15 -0400, Jerseyj <jerseyj69@comcast.net>
wrote:

>Hi all,
>For years I lived in an apartment and just had antenna's in the attic , 
>but now having moved to a house in a few months I'll be putting up a 
>10-160 wire type antenna in my trees. 

I have a 10-80 wire connected between 3 trees. It's fed with
ladderline. Lightning protection is simple -- with banana plugs and
jacks, I can unplug the ladderline just outside the window whenever it
looks rainy.

You might think about whether you want to use coax or some kind of
balanced line -- balanced line is a simple disconnect.

bob
k5qwg

>Given the recent spate of serious 
>thunderstorms, and the accompanying lightning, I'm a bit concerned about 
>properly grouding the antenna so that I don't fry the house *smile*. I 
>know about some articles on the ARRL site, but was wondering if anyone 
>else had some ideas or pointers on how to practically do this ?
>
>Jerry



Article: 215256 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Colin Gunn" <cgunn@telus.net>
Subject: Fantastic Military kW auto coupler for sale
Message-ID: <_9yCe.157795$on1.152688@clgrps13>
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 19:18:18 GMT

Fantastic Military kW auto coupler for sale.  Mackay MSR4030 type.  Check
out ebay at

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5788422677&category=48711&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1

VE7TNT




From - Tue Jul 19 10:45:37 EDT 2005
Article: 215257 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Reply-To: "Thierry" <->
From: "Thierry" <->
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
References: <42d955cc$1@news.vo.lu> <dbcv9c$kfd$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Subject: Re: Quad/ beam for portables activities ?
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 22:19:22 +0200
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Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215257

Hi Roger,

Indeed, I know the spiderbeam since the very beginning but it is really too
huge I believe
I list all "portable" multibands solution in this excel file
http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/qsl-portable3.htm

>From what I have seen or read, most portable beam are working on 6m or
below.
Remain the quad that works fine closer to the ground than the beam.
Hard to find.

Thierry, ON4SKY

"Roger Conroy" <rogerconroy@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dbcv9c$kfd$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
>
> "Thierry" <-> wrote in message news:42d955cc$1@news.vo.lu...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I need your advice. Here are my needs :
> > I'd like to DXing on portable at 100W SSB. I am looking for a directive
> > antenna displaying an interesting gain and F/B. Another factor to
consider
> > is the price but I am not ready to build the antenna myself. The
rotation
> > of
> > the mast/antenna will be insured manually.
> > I have thus to use the lightest 2-ele quad or a 3-ele beam.
> >
> > My weight being close to 65 kg the weight of this antenna should be of
20
> > kg
> > max (at first sight. I don't exactly know what weight I canb lift up,
but
> > probably not much)
> > If this is a quad I think that I can still place it 3-5m high max (the
> > lower
> > string being 1 to 2m over ground), for sure much higher for the beam.
> > The overall length of the antenna cannot exceed 4-5m and the possible
boom
> > must be telescopic or easy to assemble as all parts could enter in a
> > medium
> > size car (so elements to assemble must be 2.5m long max or so)
> >
> > So I am looking for a dealer manufacturering light elements or
collapsible
> > antennas or easy to setup (in less than 30 min-1h)
> > At last I prefer a full length quad or, if that exists, a quad using
traps
> > (but I've never seen that) but the beam could use traps and the ends.
> > This antenna must be tuned on 20m or maybe a tri-bander 20-15-10 or
> > 20-17-15m
> >
> > Is this a dream or not ? If not, do you know some manufacturers
providing
> > such antennas ?
> >
> > Excepted Hexa-Beam Light models, I don't really know other dealers (and
> > BBQ
> > is a shortened quad and quite heavy and Titanex sells only large beams
and
> > verticals).
> > Do you have some good experience in the field in erecting such /P beams
?.
> > If you do, what model do (did) you use ?
> >
> > Thanks for your comments
> >
> > Thierry
> > ON4SKY
> > http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/menu-qsl.htm
> >
> >
>
> Spiderbeam - 3 or 5 bands - 20 to 10m
> www.spiderbeam.net
>
> Easy to build, cheap, good performance, very light weight and packs up
> compact.
>
> 73
> Roger ZR3RC
>
>
>




From - Tue Jul 19 10:45:37 EDT 2005
Article: 215258 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Reply-To: "Thierry" <->
From: "Thierry" <->
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
References: <jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com>
Subject: Re: lightning protection
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 22:58:56 +0200
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Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215258


"Jerseyj" <jerseyj69@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> Hi all,
> For years I lived in an apartment and just had antenna's in the attic ,
> but now having moved to a house in a few months I'll be putting up a
> 10-160 wire type antenna in my trees. Given the recent spate of serious
> thunderstorms, and the accompanying lightning, I'm a bit concerned about
> properly grouding the antenna so that I don't fry the house *smile*. I
> know about some articles on the ARRL site, but was wondering if anyone
> else had some ideas or pointers on how to practically do this ?

HI,

Good to read : http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/qsl-lightning-protection.htm

Personnaly, in my humble opinion, under thundery weather there is no better
solution than unpluging all electronic devices...

Thierry, ON4SKY

>
> Jerry




Article: 215259 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: lightning protection
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 16:54:07 -0500
Message-ID: <3278-42DAD37F-108@storefull-3258.bay.webtv.net>
References: <jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com>

Jerry wrote:
"I know about some articles on the ARRL site, but was wondering if
anyone else had some ideas or pointers on how to pratically do this?"

Coax helps protect your radio from lightning. It rejects common-mode
currents inside which might otherwise damage the radio.

Thunderstorms often produce lightning from clouds charged to 100 million
volts with respect to the earth. Current may oscilate up to 200 thousand
amps in a lightning discharge. Temperature inside the stroke may reach
30 thousand degrees C (5x the temperature of the sun`s surface).

A stroke starts and stops abruptly, so it contains r-f in addition to
d-c. The discharge may take up to 150 milliseconds and consist of
several flashes in both directions. It may include a path
 miles long, so it has a pretty good ionization trail for an antenna.

If your antenna is struck by lightning, it is best to bypass the energy
aroundb people and equipment.

Medium wave stations have arc-gaps around the tower base insulators,
Faraday screens between primary and secondary of tower r-f coupling
transformers, and tower lighting chokes which keep both r-f and
lightning out of the power mains.

High frequency stations often use balanced wire lines, and these have an
arc-gap from each wire to the earth at a point outside the station.

VHF, UHF, and microwave stations use grounded antennas and coax. Towers
which support the antenna generally have each tower leg separately
grounded by a heavy cable to its own ground rod near the tower base. R-F
cables and waveguide are grounded at the antenna and at least at the
base of the tower. Coax nay be coiled with several turns between the
tower base and the shack to discourage lightning on the outside of the
coax from entry to the shack. Waveguide is solidly bonded to the tower
but not usually coiled to make a lightning choke.

The solid-state VHF, UHF, or microwave station often needs additional
surge protection because of the difference in potential between electric
service and antenna system grounds
This takes the form of husky r-f chokes in each power wire to the r-f
equipment. Each choke is shunted at each end to ground with a capacitor
and with a voltage limiting device or devices, often MOV`s. There are
ready-made brute force coil and capacitor low-pass pi-filters which need
only addition of MOV`s to make them effective lightning suppressors. I
made mine in an earlier time using Miller Coil Company tower lighting
chokes and they worked well. You could wind 2 or 3 dozen turns of #12 or
#14 insulated wire in an 8-in. dia. circle to make your own 0.1
millihenry chokes. The standard choke used to be 2.5 millihenry, but it
is not critical.

The same wiring techniques required for noise reduction apply to the
biggest noise of all, lightning.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI   



Article: 215260 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "harrogate2" <harrogate2@ntlworld.com>
References: <jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com> <3278-42DAD37F-108@storefull-3258.bay.webtv.net>
Subject: Re: lightning protection
Message-ID: <OUACe.10325$Ag3.1771@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 22:24:46 GMT


"Richard Harrison" <richardharrison@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3278-42DAD37F-108@storefull-3258.bay.webtv.net...
> Jerry wrote:
> "I know about some articles on the ARRL site, but was wondering if
> anyone else had some ideas or pointers on how to pratically do
this?"
>
> Coax helps protect your radio from lightning. It rejects common-mode
> currents inside which might otherwise damage the radio.
>
> Thunderstorms often produce lightning from clouds charged to 100
million
> volts with respect to the earth. Current may oscilate up to 200
thousand
> amps in a lightning discharge. Temperature inside the stroke may
reach
> 30 thousand degrees C (5x the temperature of the sun`s surface).
>
> A stroke starts and stops abruptly, so it contains r-f in addition
to
> d-c. The discharge may take up to 150 milliseconds and consist of
> several flashes in both directions. It may include a path
>  miles long, so it has a pretty good ionization trail for an
antenna.
>
> If your antenna is struck by lightning, it is best to bypass the
energy
> aroundb people and equipment.
>
> Medium wave stations have arc-gaps around the tower base insulators,
> Faraday screens between primary and secondary of tower r-f coupling
> transformers, and tower lighting chokes which keep both r-f and
> lightning out of the power mains.
>
> High frequency stations often use balanced wire lines, and these
have an
> arc-gap from each wire to the earth at a point outside the station.
>
> VHF, UHF, and microwave stations use grounded antennas and coax.
Towers
> which support the antenna generally have each tower leg separately
> grounded by a heavy cable to its own ground rod near the tower base.
R-F
> cables and waveguide are grounded at the antenna and at least at the
> base of the tower. Coax nay be coiled with several turns between the
> tower base and the shack to discourage lightning on the outside of
the
> coax from entry to the shack. Waveguide is solidly bonded to the
tower
> but not usually coiled to make a lightning choke.
>
> The solid-state VHF, UHF, or microwave station often needs
additional
> surge protection because of the difference in potential between
electric
> service and antenna system grounds
> This takes the form of husky r-f chokes in each power wire to the
r-f
> equipment. Each choke is shunted at each end to ground with a
capacitor
> and with a voltage limiting device or devices, often MOV`s. There
are
> ready-made brute force coil and capacitor low-pass pi-filters which
need
> only addition of MOV`s to make them effective lightning suppressors.
I
> made mine in an earlier time using Miller Coil Company tower
lighting
> chokes and they worked well. You could wind 2 or 3 dozen turns of
#12 or
> #14 insulated wire in an 8-in. dia. circle to make your own 0.1
> millihenry chokes. The standard choke used to be 2.5 millihenry, but
it
> is not critical.
>
> The same wiring techniques required for noise reduction apply to the
> biggest noise of all, lightning.
>
> Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI
>

An interesting fact that many don't know is that lightning actually
strkes upwards as the clouds are negatively charged.


--
Woody

harrogate2 at ntlworld dot com




Article: 215261 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Elden Fenison <usenet@moondog.org>
Subject: Re: Vertical longwire? Antenna recommendation?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 01:40:04 -0000
Message-ID: <slrnddm206.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org>
References: <slrnddgsvb.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org> <dba4gs$jtg$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <slrnddhjk9.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org> <1121566789.814410.79580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <slrnddkb7i.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org> <1121638747.593172.302370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

* Brian Kelly [07/17/2005 22:19 UTC]:
>> Yeah, $140 difference. Question about that though... wouldn't the
>> AH-4 be a better choice for another reason? That reason being that
>> the AH-4 is designed to connect to the wire directly at the feed
>> point, whereas the MFJ is apparently designed for in-shack use.
>
> Yes and no, it's a matter of several tradeoffs Elden. Right now I'm up
> to ears in alligators so QRX and I'll get back to you late Monday with
> some comments.

Ok Brian. I appreciate the advice you've given. I do understand that
there sometimes is disagreement between hams regarding certain things,
like having a portion of a radiating element in the shack.

Personally, I think I'd opt for an outdoor-mounted AH-4 for reasons of
efficency, convenience, and safety. But it is nice to know that other
options exist. So right now, my preferred solution is an ICOM IC-718,
with an AH-4 and a longwire. I think that should work nicely.

After surveying the new apartment location a little more closely, looks
like I could run a horizontal longwire, roughly parallel to the ground
for 100ft into a tree with some sort of insulator on the end. Then I
would do the "in apartment" counterpoise/RF ground. This would probably
be about 20/30ft off the ground... second floor height.

Regarding your explanation for getting various wires from indoor to
outdoor, I've taken the exact same approach. Using a thin 2x2 in the
window with cables running in through an opening in it. Seems to work ok
and no permanent holes in the structure.

-- 
-=Elden=-
http://www.moondog.org


Article: 215262 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: W9DMK<nobody@crosslink.net> (Robert Lay)
Subject: Re: zepp antenna matchinig method
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 02:05:56 GMT
Message-ID: <42db0dd6.2470462@news.crosslink.net>
References: <qvSdnQWASeJ1bUffRVn-1w@rogers.com>

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 19:54:10 -0400, "larry" <larya@rogers.com> wrote:

>Greetings
>
>I am looking for a schematic diagram of a zepp antenna, including the 1/4
>matching line and and matchiing method of 50 ohm coax cable...
>
>Are there any website which would show this?...
>
>Larry ve3fxq
>
>

Dear Larry,

There's nothing to show - it's too simple for a picture. You just take
a 1/2 wavelength of horizontal antenna and you end-feed it from one
side of a piece of balanced line 1/4 wavelength long. You then link
couple that to the final tank coil and do your matching with the
swinging link and the tank circuit. No equations, no schematics or
pictures - just do it!


Bob, W9DMK, Dahlgren, VA
Replace "nobody" with my callsign for e-mail
w9dmk<at>crosslink<dot>net
http://www.qsl.net/w9dmk
http://zaffora/f2o.org/W9DMK/W9dmk.html



Article: 215263 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Hal Rosser" <hmrosser@bellsouth.net>
References: <jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com> <0ExCe.35$An2.2190373@news.sisna.com>
Subject: Re: lightning protection
Message-ID: <IpECe.86545$Tt.25153@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 22:25:48 -0400

Interesting, You made me look. (made me Look up coherer, that is).
An invention of Sir Oliver Lodge for detecting rf.
Your idea of using it as a lightning protection device seems to be a
misapplication.
But like I said, until now, I never heard of it.

"John Smith" <assemblywizard@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0ExCe.35$An2.2190373@news.sisna.com...
> For a receiving antenna, a coherer provides excellent lightning
> protection.
>
> Unfortuantly, on a transmitting antenna, the rf would immediately make
> the coherer conductive and a direct short to ground (perhaps very low
> QRP power could be used?)
>
> One can easily be construted with a bottle filled with metal filings,
> two bare wires are inserted into the filings (not touching and
> seperated by a substantial amount of the filings), one wire goes to a
> good earth ground, the other to the antenna.
>
> If the coherer shorts to ground it only needs to be shaken to reset (I
> would suspect in a real lightning strike the metal would be fused,
> quite possibly even vaporized.)
>
> John
>
> "Jerseyj" <jerseyj69@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> > Hi all,
> > For years I lived in an apartment and just had antenna's in the
> > attic ,
> > but now having moved to a house in a few months I'll be putting up a
> > 10-160 wire type antenna in my trees. Given the recent spate of
> > serious
> > thunderstorms, and the accompanying lightning, I'm a bit concerned
> > about
> > properly grouding the antenna so that I don't fry the house *smile*.
> > I
> > know about some articles on the ARRL site, but was wondering if
> > anyone
> > else had some ideas or pointers on how to practically do this ?
> >
> > Jerry
>
>




Article: 215264 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Resistor Frequency Response
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 03:43:23 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dbf8gr$kuk$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <dbe2ts$cja$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <HlxCe.6288$BK1.2693@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Hi Ed.

Regarding your big 2-watt carbon resistors at 500 MHz -

what values of reflection coefficient or SWR were experienced when you
say they "worked fine".  Can you remember?  Or did you have some other
way of assessing "fine" performance?

The DC value has to be allowed a resonably large tolerance about its
nominal value and the HF performance cannot be any better than that.
----
Reg, G4FGQ




Article: 215265 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Old Ed" <eXseniorsDeleteThisAndTheX@earthlink.net>
References: <dbe2ts$cja$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <HlxCe.6288$BK1.2693@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> <dbf8gr$kuk$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
Subject: Re: Resistor Frequency Response
Message-ID: <2%FCe.4833$dU3.3414@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 04:12:46 GMT

Hi Reg,

Our definition of "worked fine" was that the measured SWR was
consistent with the rated DC resistance and tolerance.  As I recall,
we were using 51 Ohm 5% resistors.  Typical SWR was under
1.1 up to 100 MHz, and 1.2 to 1.3 at 500 MHz for the bent-lead
(lesser performing) version.

These loads were just for handy lab use, and were not products or
calibrated test equipment, of course.

Ed

"Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:dbf8gr$kuk$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Hi Ed.
>
> Regarding your big 2-watt carbon resistors at 500 MHz -
>
> what values of reflection coefficient or SWR were experienced when you
> say they "worked fine".  Can you remember?  Or did you have some other
> way of assessing "fine" performance?
>
> The DC value has to be allowed a resonably large tolerance about its
> nominal value and the HF performance cannot be any better than that.
> ----
> Reg, G4FGQ
>
>





Article: 215266 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <H7wussHXY02CFwAu@care4free.net>
From: news <news@care4free.net>
Subject: How the "professionals" do it
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 06:09:59 GMT

http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/032033034035036.htm

-- 
Ian


Article: 215267 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Tony VE6MVP <tony@REMOVEve6mvp.com>
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
Message-ID: <mtimd1lbvg0933j4184oi4k63vjebanuii@4ax.com>
References: <MSGID_1=3a167=2f133.0_42d71fff@fidonet.org> <15054-42D7D332-73@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 06:29:14 GMT

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 10:16:02 -0500, richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard
Harrison) wrote:

>Another example is found in high pressurre gas pipelines. Their internal
>pressure cycles and this tends to enlarge microscopic cracks, if any, in
>the pipe. Pipes are hydrostatically tested before placed in service (no
>energy storage in water as it is incompressible) so a pipe blow out of
>water won`t likely hurt a bystander. After the pipe is put in service it
>is retested each year.

A major problem for pipelines are where both corrision and cracks are
within limits but close to each other.   The pipeline folks have been
analyzing and fixing those for over a decade now.

Retesting is not done by pressure, as far as I know, but by sending
"pigs" down the line to analyze the pipeline.

Tony


Article: 215268 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "jOn....." <nospamta@ntlworld.com>
References: <3f060936$0$45378$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl> <hUoNa.2810$ju6.42173@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net> <X9OdnTlYALJOQkXfRVn-2w@comcast.com>
Subject: Re: yaesu vx-5r or kenwood th-f7????
Message-ID: <3dICe.2612$Oe4.575@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 06:44:15 GMT


"Ed" <no1@home.not> wrote in message
news:X9OdnTlYALJOQkXfRVn-2w@comcast.com...
> Steve Terry wrote:
> > "c" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> > news:3f060936$0$45378$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl...
> >
> >>Hello All,
> >>I want to buy a handheld for 2, and 70cm.
> >>I was thinking to buy a kenwood th-f7e, or
> >>a yeasu vx-5r.
> >>They are now in stock, the price is the same, it's
> >>399 euro.
> >>
> >
> > Got something against the VX-7 ?
> > the VX-5 is now obsolete
> >
> > Steve Terry
> >
> >
>
> Hmmmmm... last time I used mine it worked just fine. It may not be
> manufactured any longer, but it is far from obsolete.

And I bought the whole kit in America for almost half price
car adaptor
stand alone fast charger
speaker mic
extra battery
programming software and cable
soft case
a smaller comet antenna
a bnc/sma adaptor
barometer altimeter board
$537
and already had a 110v converter £1




Article: 215269 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Message-ID: <oZAFk0KVh12CFw26@care4free.net>
From: news <news@care4free.net>
Subject: Beam tilting: how the "professionals" do it
References: <H7wussHXY02CFwAu@care4free.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:19:17 GMT

In message <qnkmd1hmp0hm2o0fkdb7qig9sgnpi3c4qh@4ax.com>, Richard Clark 
<kb7qhc@comcast.net> writes
>On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 06:09:59 GMT, news <news@care4free.net> wrote:
>
>>http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/032033034035036.htm
>
>Hi Ian,
>
>The one picture is something, the procession of shots following are
>staggering.
>
>73's
>Richard Clark, KB7QHC

You can say that again!

I wonder if there is a similar series anywhere on tower installation 
..... :-))

-- 
73
Ian, G3NRW


Article: 215270 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: N7ZZT - Eric Oyen <n7zzt@127.0.0.1>
Subject: Re: How the "professionals" do it
References: <H7wussHXY02CFwAu@care4free.net>
Message-ID: <eNICe.47187$up5.39513@lakeread02>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 00:22:50 -0700

news wrote:

> http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/032033034035036.htm
> 

Gee, I've known worse here in Az, but not much worse.
-- 
DE N7ZZT
Eric Oyen
Phoenix, Arizona
e-mail: n7zzt(at)hotmail(dot)com
the difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence 
has its limits.


From - Tue Jul 19 10:45:40 EDT 2005
Article: 215271 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Reply-To: "Thierry" <->
From: "Thierry" <->
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
References: <jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com> <42dac693$1@news.vo.lu> <zKSdnQmEna7McUffRVn-sQ@comcast.com>
Subject: Re: lightning protection
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:47:07 +0200
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Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215271


"Ham op" <hamop@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:zKSdnQmEna7McUffRVn-sQ@comcast.com...
> Thierry wrote:
>
> SNIPPED
>
> > HI,
> >
> > Good to read :
http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/qsl-lightning-protection.htm
> >
> > Personnaly, in my humble opinion, under thundery weather there is no
better
> > solution than unpluging all electronic devices...
> >
> > Thierry, ON4SKY
> >
>   Agree! But, I still lost an ICOM 756 Pro II when disconnected from
> antenna,
> and had the power supply unplugged. A ground loop in the external ground
on
> the 756 and the power supply, where 12 volt return is tied to chassis,
> caused
> damage to the power connector on the 756 and fried the 756 internal
> cabling and
> circuit boards were carbonized.
>
> I'm still waiting for my insurance settlement.
>
> MORAL: Lightning does what lightning does!
>

For sure, as soon as there is a sink, a path of lower resistance, the
lightning will find it and will follow it to your most expensive accessory..
This canal can be the coaxial, the house cabling system, even yourself if by
mistake you touch a metallic device during the thunder. Even the ground as
state in my article can be an excellent way for the lightning to strike your
installation. Hence it is better to entrust this installation to experts.

So I when I say to unplug all devices, this is *all* cabling system,
including grouding.

Usually the insurance do an excellent job and you should be able to rebuy
all your defective devices.

Good luck.
73
Thierry, ON4SKY




From - Tue Jul 19 10:45:41 EDT 2005
Article: 215272 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Reply-To: "Thierry" <->
From: "Thierry" <->
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
References: <wp9Ce.791$vv6.365@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>
Subject: Re: what is best for 10-40m windom or g5rv
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:57:08 +0200
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Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215272


"DAVID BROWNE" <david.browne5@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:wp9Ce.791$vv6.365@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
> what is best for 10-40m windom or g5rv half size
>
> thanks dave browne 2e0 dmb
>
>

I haven't use the half-size models which are too small to give good results,
excepted for local QSO (and dxing with luck during high solar cycle, hi!)
I am not sure that your solution will be efficient, even on 15 or 20m.
All depend on what you want to do with it and on what band.

I used both in full-length and I prefer the reception pattern of the windom
that fills the gaps not covered by the dipole due to its vertical segment.
The overall performance is better that using a G5RV close to the same
length.

Here is some impressions when I used both :
http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/qsl-antenna3.htm (second half of page)
and here http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/qsl-g5rv.htm for some diagram
patterns of the G5RV.

Thierry, ON4SKY




Article: 215273 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Reg Edwards" <g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Resistor Frequency Response
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 14:31:56 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <dbgegs$755$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
References: <dbe2ts$cja$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <HlxCe.6288$BK1.2693@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> <dbf8gr$kuk$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <2%FCe.4833$dU3.3414@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Thanks Ed for the information.  I need time to think about it.

At first sight your data falls in the same ball park as that generated
by program METALFLM below 500 MHz.  Ball-park accuracy is all that
anybody can expect under the circumstances.

It is a fact that program  METALFLM is the first of many programs I
have ever produced without the support of personal measurement
experience. I have very little practical experience of frequency
response of resistors above above 30 MHz and not very much below that.

But I DO have confidence in my assessment of L and C values as
calculated from physical resistor dimensions. Also I have confidence
in my ability to model equivalent circuits of distributed L, C and R
components.

In the end, all that's needed. are the limits of reflection
coefficients versus frequency for ordinary wire-end resistors mounted
on circuit boards.

And of course, rubbish in = rubbish out.

Cecil, is there an IEEE definition of "Ball Park Accuracy" ?  I'm on
South African red.  Gone off Californian white.
----
Reg, G4FGQ

By the way, the program has brought to light the fact that
board-mounted resistors in the range 100 to 400 ohms have a slightly
better frequency response than those around 50 ohms.  Therefore,
wideband 50-ohm dummy loads are best made from a nunber of higher
value resistors connected in parallel. Avoid series connections. Which
is what most people do anyway.
----
RJE




Article: 215274 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 09:44:41 -0500
Message-ID: <6018-42DBC059-504@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net>
References: <42da5325$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Cecil, W5DXP wrote:
"Concerning open-circuited or short-circuited transmission lines, if the
voltages add up to zero, that looks like a short, and current is at a
maximum. If these conditions occur at the source, 100% re-reflection of
the incident reflected wave energy is guaranteed. The Bird reads equal
forward and reflected power all up and down the feedline."

Yes. A bird is indicatihg power in one direction only and this is the
same along a low-loss line everywhere along the line regardless of SWR.

A short does not kill line energy. It merely transfers electric field
energy into the magnetic field for an instant producing an SWR in which
voltage and current patterns are 90-degrees apart.

When the load end of a transmission line is shorted, 100% of the
incident wave is reflected but the reflected wave has a complete
reversal in phase of its voltage with no change in the phase of its
associated current.

When the load end of a transmission line is open-circuited, 100% of the
incident wave is reflected but the reflected wave has a complete
reversal in the phase of its current with no change in the phase of its
associated voltage.

When the source end of a transmission line is effectively a short or
open circuit, ir re-reflects the reflected wave.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



Article: 215275 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: chuck <nospam@nospam.net>
Subject: Re: lightning protection
References: <jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <ftPCe.13196$aY6.725@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 14:59:23 GMT

Does anyone know of cases where houses have fried as a consequence of 
ham wire antennas, "protected" or otherwise?

We all know of cases where electronics gets zapped but Jerry is 
concerned about his house.

Be interesting to hear of actual cases, wouldn't it? Statistics would be 
even better, but I won't hold my breath.

Chuck

Jerseyj wrote:
> Hi all,
> For years I lived in an apartment and just had antenna's in the attic , 
> but now having moved to a house in a few months I'll be putting up a 
> 10-160 wire type antenna in my trees. Given the recent spate of serious 
> thunderstorms, and the accompanying lightning, I'm a bit concerned about 
> properly grouding the antenna so that I don't fry the house *smile*. I 
> know about some articles on the ARRL site, but was wondering if anyone 
> else had some ideas or pointers on how to practically do this ?
> 
> Jerry


Article: 215276 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: AD5TH Tower - Storm Damage Photos
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:32:42 -0500
Message-ID: <983-42DBCB9A-590@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net>
References: <mtimd1lbvg0933j4184oi4k63vjebanuii@4ax.com>

Tony wrote:
"(Pipeline) Retesting is not done by pressure, as far as I know, but ny
dending "pigs" down the line to analyze the pipeline."

No surprise. Hydrostatic testing pressurized pipes to maximum pressure
or slightly more to prove their safety. This itself tends to aggravate
cracks.

A pig is a carriage (usually wheeless and propelled by differential
pressure) through the pipe. They serve many purposes. They can be used
for video inspections, ultrasonic tests, or X-ray review of a pipe.

When I was a pipeliner, they were often blown through a pipe to clear it
of trash and liquids.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI 



Article: 215277 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: lightning protection
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:59:41 -0500
Message-ID: <983-42DBD1ED-594@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net>
References: <ftPCe.13196$aY6.725@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Chuck wrote:
"We all know of cases where electronics gets zapped but Jerry is
concerned about his house."

Ben Franklin promoted lightning rods to protect people and houses before
electronics was. These rods would not have sold had they not seemed to
work. Tell me a drowning man will grasp at straws!

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



Article: 215278 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: lightning protection
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 11:20:09 -0500
Message-ID: <983-42DBD6B9-598@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net>
References: <ftPCe.13196$aY6.725@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Chuck wrote:
"We all know of cases where electronics gets zapped but Jerry is
concerned about his house."

I`ve worked in many protected structures struck repeatedly by lightning
to their air terminals, rods, and towersm resulting in not one scintilla
of damage to occupants or equipment.

Transportation vehicles are struck by lightning every day and seldom
experience anything inside. An open convertible is not safe in a
lightning strike however.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



From - Tue Jul 19 10:45:42 EDT 2005
Article: 215279 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Reply-To: "Thierry" <->
From: "Thierry" <->
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: hexa-beam user in ON, F, LX ?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 18:45:36 +0200
Lines: 13
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
NNTP-Posting-Host: tvsurf-habscht1-182.pt.lu
Message-ID: <42dbdcb6$1@news.vo.lu>
X-Trace: news.vo.lu 1121705142 213.166.42.182 (18 Jul 2005 18:45:42 +0200)
Path: news1.isis.unc.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.glorb.com!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!news.vo.lu!not-for-mail
Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215279

Hi,

I am searching for a user of Hexa-beam HXP (portable serie) living in ON or
close, specially between Brussels-Luxembourg-Metz.
I'ld like to visit and speak about your installation

Please contact me via my post form :
http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/post.htm

73
Thierry, ON4SKY




Article: 215280 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bob Miller <NOSPAM@neosoft.com>
Subject: Re: lightning protection
Message-ID: <okond1t3hohthekuj70gt9qmua7bs3p04n@4ax.com>
References: <ftPCe.13196$aY6.725@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net> <983-42DBD1ED-594@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:14:42 GMT

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:59:41 -0500, richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard
Harrison) wrote:

>Chuck wrote:
>"We all know of cases where electronics gets zapped but Jerry is
>concerned about his house."
>
>Ben Franklin promoted lightning rods to protect people and houses before
>electronics was. These rods would not have sold had they not seemed to
>work. Tell me a drowning man will grasp at straws!
>
>Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI


Franklin, defying the gods, performed his kite flying experiment in
June of 1752, and by late June or July, the first "lightning rods"
were installed on structures in Philadelphia. Ol' Ben kinda made up
his own "nec code".

bob
k5qwg




From - Tue Jul 19 10:45:43 EDT 2005
Article: 215281 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Reply-To: "Thierry" <->
From: "Thierry" <->
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Hexa-beam radiation pattern ?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:16:36 +0200
Lines: 17
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
NNTP-Posting-Host: tvsurf-habscht1-182.pt.lu
Message-ID: <42dbe3fa$1@news.vo.lu>
X-Trace: news.vo.lu 1121707002 213.166.42.182 (18 Jul 2005 19:16:42 +0200)
Path: news1.isis.unc.edu!elk.ncren.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.vmunix.org!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!news.vo.lu!not-for-mail
Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215281

Hi,

Could someone provide me the radiation patterns of Hexa-beam, specially the
HXP, at low (6') and high elevation (30') above ground
The manufacturer website does not really extend on the performances of his
antennas and I 'l like to get more "in the field" measurements before buying
it (even if I read some comments on eham, cq, etc).

Thanks in advance

73
Thierry, ON4SKY
http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry






Article: 215282 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Old Ed" <eXseniorsDeleteThisAndTheX@earthlink.net>
References: <wp9Ce.791$vv6.365@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net> <dbcufg$8sh$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <42da5478$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <dbdlar$7mb$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <JlxCe.6290$BK1.3216@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> <NMKdnaWoH69QJUffRVn-vA@comcast.com> <5pzCe.6340$BK1.1939@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> <iKOdnViwpPohd0ffRVn-gw@comcast.com>
Subject: Re: what is best for 10-40m windom or g5rv
Message-ID: <FJRCe.4977$dU3.3558@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:33:25 GMT

Hi again, Ham Op -

You're one step ahead of me re the G5RV in that you have
used one.  I have not.  I see no reason to doubt your (inferred)
statement that you were only satisfied with it on 20m.

However, the ARRL antenna book lists the G5RV in the chapter
on Multiband Antennas, and begins the description as follows:
"A multiband antenna that does not require a lot of space, is simple
to construct, and is low in cost is the G5RV."  (To be fair, the ARRL
piece goes on to state that 20m is the most-favored band in the
G5RV design.)

A common-sense question would be:  Why would Varney design
a single-band 20m doublet that is bigger and more complicated
than a single-band 20m dipole, unless he was looking for some
added benefit--e.g., multiband operation?  Alas, I don't have ready
access to Varney's old articles, so his thought process will have to
remain unknown to me for the time being.

I have no wish to assume the role of Chief Defender of the G5RV.
I merely responded to some G5RV/2 criticisms that I found illogical.
My dipoles are of the trap and fan variety, and I like them that way.

If I go off the reservation to another type of wire antenna, it won't
be either a Windom or a G5RV; I'd like to experiment with a
multiresonant OCF design.  (I really don't want to bring antenna
tuners into my mix--either the conventional lumped-constant type,
or Cecil's variable-line-length type.)   I like "instant" QSY+QRO.
Your mileage may vary.

Good DX,

Anonymous Handle (just for grins)

"Ham op" <hamop@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:iKOdnViwpPohd0ffRVn-gw@comcast.com...
> The full size G5RV IS A 20 Meter antenna!! That's a fact.
>
> It performs as designed on 20 meters!!
>
> Any wire can be made to radiate on other frequencies by using stubs,
> baluns, tuners, etc. But that does not change the fact that the G5RV is
> designed as a 20 meter antenna!!
>
> It works on other harmonically related bands, but it is still a 20 meter
> design!
>
> I used one about 6 years ago. Then changed to a center fed doublet with
> open wire tuned feeders. I'll take the doublet/tuned feeders any day!
>
> Ham Op
>
>






Article: 215283 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Jim Kelley <jwkelley@uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:46:48 -0700
Message-ID: <dbgpua$pls$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <42da5325$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <6018-42DBC059-504@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net>



Richard Harrison wrote:
> When the source end of a transmission line is effectively a short or
> open circuit, ir re-reflects the reflected wave.

Are we then supposed to infer that it [the source] doesn't re-reflect 
the wave if anything other than a short or open circuit appears there?

73, ac6xg



Article: 215284 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Old Ed" <eXseniorsDeleteThisAndTheX@earthlink.net>
References: <wp9Ce.791$vv6.365@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net> <dbcufg$8sh$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <42da5478$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <dbdlar$7mb$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <JlxCe.6290$BK1.3216@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> <NMKdnaWoH69QJUffRVn-vA@comcast.com>
Subject: Re: what is best for 10-40m windom or g5rv
Message-ID: <5pzCe.6340$BK1.1939@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 20:42:41 GMT

Hi there, Op...

Well, the devil is in the details, isn't it?

One "compromise" from a Mercedes is a Yugo.
That would be a pretty big come-down.

But another "compromise" from a Mercedes would be a BMW
(or vice-versa).  That wouldn't be hard to take at all.

Presumably, the reference antennas against which the G5RV is
called a "compromise" are full-sized dipoles for the respective
bands.  IF the G5RV can come reasonably close to those
(and many users seem to think it can), then there is a pretty
good basis for its enduring popularity.

73, Ed

"Ham op" <hamop@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:NMKdnaWoH69QJUffRVn-vA@comcast.com...
> Sine the G5RV is designed for 20 meters, and is a compromise on the
> other bands: I conclude that the 1/2 scale G5RV is a 10 meter antenna;
> and is a compromise on the other bands!
>





Article: 215285 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Jim Kelley <jwkelley@nospam.edu>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 11:37:15 -0700
Message-ID: <dbgsst$r38$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com> <6294-42D9E987-132@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net> <42da5325$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Cecil Moore wrote:

> Measuring the current at the mid-point of that
> 1/2WL of feedline will prove the feedline is filled with
> EM wave energy which must travel at the speed of light.

So it follows that measuring voltage at the wall outlet proves there's 
energy filling the wall.  As always, it's important to remember that any 
such energy would of course be traveling at the speed of light - and no 
faster.  :-)

> The Bird will read 100w forward and 100 reflected on the
> feedline. An RF current meter at the center of that 1/2WL
> of feedline will read 2.828 amps. That's the sum of the
> forward current and reflected current in phase, 1.414 amps
> in the forward direction and 1.414 amps in the rearward
> direction. 1.414^2*50 = 100w for both forward and reflected
> powers. The Bird is right. Those powers are really there
> supporting the forward and reflected waves and cannot be
> used for any other purpose. 

A veritable black hole of logic: it's inescapable!  :-)

> Since the feedline is lossless,
> there's no lost energy to replace so the source power output
> is zero. Anything else would violate the conservation of
> energy principle. Note that at the above current maximum
> point, the net flow of energy is zero since the Poynting
> vectors for forward and reflected power add up to zero.

Noting of course that EM energy can't normally put itself back into the 
source after it's done bouncing around.  So, since there's no load and 
the system is lossless, no energy is produced or transferred, which 
means zero power. In this instance, the readings on the Bird wattmeter 
are not at all helpful toward understanding the flow of EM energy - 
which as Cecil is always kind enough to remind us, travels not just at 
any speed, but at the speed of light.

73, ac6xg



Article: 215286 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 14:21:19 -0500
Message-ID: <15054-42DC012F-630@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net>
References: <dbgpua$pls$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Jim Kelley wrote:
"Are we then supposed to infer that it (the source) doesn`t re-reflect
the wave if anything other than a short or open circuit appears there?"

The reflection may be incomplete unless either a hard short or complete
open-circuit appears at the source where the generator meets the
transmission line. If the source appears as a complete short or open the
reflection is total.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI.



Article: 215287 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Jim Kelley <jwkelley@nospam.edu>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:51:33 -0700
Message-ID: <dbh189$svu$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <daur1o$7k4$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d3c5c5$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db1evm$eqg$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d48ff5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db3nqu$hed$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5c2b1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db4gcr$t5n$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5de67$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db6kd7$se$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d734e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db91ma$5bs$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d82ab2$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <vscgd1pjb3it4ji9cqp5uh4m3k1j59alv6@4ax.com> <db9g98$boa$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d8831b$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Cecil Moore wrote:

> Jim Kelley wrote:
> 
>> Richard Clark wrote:
>>
>>> Jim Kelley <jwkelley@uci.edu wrote:
>>>
>>>> Born and Wolf has an interesting comment in the section on total 
>>>> reflection.  "...the electromagnetic field in the second medium does 
>>>> not disappear, only there is no longer a flow of energy across the 
>>>> boundary."
>>>
>>>
>>> your source, and yet unable or unwilling to confront this single
>>> observation.
>>
>>
>> Apparently that would mean the waves aren't traveling at the speed of 
>> light and it would violate his "waves cannot exist without energy" law 
>> of physics, so therefore the book is wrong.
> 
> 
> Wrong. All it means is that reflected energy doesn't make it across
> the match point. 

It says, and means more than just that, obviously.

> 
> "... when two waves of equal amplitude and wavelength that are 180-degrees
> out of phase with each other meet, they are (canceled but) not actually
> annihilated. All of the photon energy present in these waves must somehow
> be recovered or redistributed in a new direction, according to the law of
> energy conservation. (There are only two directions available in a 
> transmission
> line.) Instead, upon meeting, the photons are redistributed to regions that
> permit constructive interference, so the effect should be considered as a
> redistribution of light waves and photon energy (back toward the load) 
> rather
> than the spontaneous construction or destruction of light." (Words in 
> parentheses
> are mine added for clarity.)

Interesting to note that the interference phenomenon is often described 
as a redistribution, but is never described in any reference as a 
reflection, or re-reflection as you have done.  The reason is that when 
light destructively interferes in some direction, it simply does not go 
in that direction.  It doesn't, contrary to your assertion, first go in 
the reflected direction, say oooops, then turn around in mid-air and go 
in the other direction.  The reflection is prevented.  Comprende senor? 
  The Bird wattmeter can be misleading in this regard.  It measures the 
effect of a field (sometimes like the one in Born and Wolf that doesn't 
have transfer of energy associated with it), and in every case assumes 
energy and power.  But it's simple minded so it has an excuse.

73, ac6xg



Article: 215288 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com>
References: <jerseyj69-8935F5.08071417072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com> <ftPCe.13196$aY6.725@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: lightning protection
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:39:53 -0400
Message-ID: <17871$42dc157c$97d55ac3$1784@ALLTEL.NET>

I had the experience of a direct hit to my antenna. It was a 130 foot cage
fed with ladderline. Coax was used the last 20 feet to bring it into the
house.

Inside I had a TS-440, a TS-820 and an MFJ 989C.

The bolt destroyed the side of the antenna that went to the shield of the
coax, the largest remaining piece was about 3" in length with most of it
vaporized. The ladderline was vaporized, the other half of the dipole was
untouched.

The coax split open like a hotdog put in a microwave. The same stroke went
into the electric utilities and blew every electronic device in the house
except a cheap GE clock radio.

A stroke went through the wiring in the ceiling and the explosive expansion
of hot air blew all the vinyl siding off the front and one side of the
house.

The only fire damage was a small burn mark on the shack carpet where the
coax laid on the floor.

All antennas were grounded via the antenna switch and all ham gear was
unplugged. All antennas had blitzbuggs and coiled coax before entering the
house. These were tied to both RF ground and the single point electrical
ground.

What was strange was the stroke following paths along wood beams while
ignoring good conducting copper wires 3 feet away. The only damage to the
ham gear was a burn mark and heat distortion on the rear panel of the tuner.
It's operation was unaffected.



"chuck" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:ftPCe.13196$aY6.725@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Does anyone know of cases where houses have fried as a consequence of
> ham wire antennas, "protected" or otherwise?
>
> We all know of cases where electronics gets zapped but Jerry is
> concerned about his house.
>
> Be interesting to hear of actual cases, wouldn't it? Statistics would be
> even better, but I won't hold my breath.
>
> Chuck
>
> Jerseyj wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > For years I lived in an apartment and just had antenna's in the attic ,
> > but now having moved to a house in a few months I'll be putting up a
> > 10-160 wire type antenna in my trees. Given the recent spate of serious
> > thunderstorms, and the accompanying lightning, I'm a bit concerned about
> > properly grouding the antenna so that I don't fry the house *smile*. I
> > know about some articles on the ARRL site, but was wondering if anyone
> > else had some ideas or pointers on how to practically do this ?
> >
> > Jerry




Article: 215289 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Jerry" <joxendi@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Affordable HF antennas
Message-ID: <jAUCe.99834$qm.31465@bignews5.bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:49:31 -0400

Not to "knock" the name brands in HF mobile, but have you ever wondered  why 
they cost so much--up to 700 bucks for a screwdriver all-band mobile 
antenna?  I do because I couln't AFFORD to pay 5-7 hundred bucks for
a mobile HF antenna!  And it's not the performance you are paying for; it's 
fancy paint jobs and "consumer" gimmickry that run the price up!  And, 
actually the performance *may* be not be all that good anyway. Take for 
example the ones that claim 160-10 Meter coverage. Take a look at the 
loading coil, yeah, the 1 1/2" one. The one that is "transformer-wound" with 
ultra thin wire.  THAT'S how they are doing it. Also, many times 160 meter 
mobile performance isn't all that spectactular anyway.

That is why I build the Carolina Cyclone screwdriver. I knew what I would 
want *if* I were in the market for a screwdriver that would run with the big 
boys, but wouldn't break the budget. Here is a 2" diameter screwdriver that 
does "outtalk" those "all-band" units and it does it with large diameter 
wire (14 gauge) and 8 turns spacing--about 1 wire diameter in between.  The 
result is an HF mobile antenna that delivers coverage from 80 thru 10 Meters 
with a solid, reliable signal even when conditions
squash other mobiles. That includes the "transformer-wound" ones. For the 
guys that spend a lot of time on 80 and 40 Meters, I build and recommend the 
Cyclone II, a 3" diameter coil.  It's for the fellas that spend a lot of 
time on these bands. It earns its keep everytime.  It's what I have on my 
pickup truck.

I don't know it all, but I've done a LOT of experimenting and I have found 
that, for the best performance on the lower bands, 3 inches is about the 
best overall. If you go much bigger, then the "Q" goes so high and the 
bandwidth so narrow, you spend much time re-tuning as you drive along. I 
once tried out a 6" bugcatcher, and you couldn't move 5 feet until it would 
be WAAAY off, and you'd need a tuner to use it at all. NO fun.

So I have build the Carolina Cyclone for the past 10 years. It is a basic, 
good-looking screwdriver. It does not use PVC at all.  All parts are 
machined in a professional shop, and these parts are hard, black nylon. It 
allows one to use an amplifier up to 1000 wattsSSB  (1500 with the Cyclone 
II) without worry. It comes with either a clear or a Sked 20 PVC coil cover 
(don't confuse with that with the INTERNAL works).  Some people actually 
like the solid cover and it gives the optical illusion of being "shorter" 
than it actually is--nice for those XYL's/spouses that object to tall 
antennas. Your choice as to the cover.
And while many screwdrivers cost hundreds more, the Carolina Cyclone costs 
only $240--$350 for the Cyclone II. Shipping is included in the price, but 
price is also less whip(they are too darn hard to package and ship). And if 
you are running an Icom 706, I will include a little module that will allow 
you to semi-automatically set your antenna quickly with a tone signal.

I don't do a whole lot of advertising, and I am retired so this gives me a 
little work in my shop. I love building antennas and this gives vent to my 
hobby,

Visit www.qsl.net/k4kwh

Thanks all es 73

K4KWH 




Article: 215290 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Jim Kelley <jwkelley@nospam.edu>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:46:02 -0700
Message-ID: <dbh4eg$15q$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <dbgpua$pls$1@news.service.uci.edu> <15054-42DC012F-630@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net>



Richard Harrison wrote:

> Jim Kelley wrote:
> "Are we then supposed to infer that it (the source) doesn`t re-reflect
> the wave if anything other than a short or open circuit appears there?"
> 
> The reflection may be incomplete unless either a hard short or complete
> open-circuit appears at the source where the generator meets the
> transmission line. If the source appears as a complete short or open the
> reflection is total.
> 
> Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI.

Hmmm.  I wonder if the phase change on re-reflection the same as it does 
on reflection.  If it does, and the transmission line is a half wave 
long, the Bird wattmeter readings would be real hard to explain.

And isn't it true that if there were actually a real hard short or a 
complete open circuit at the source, there wouldn't even be a signal on 
the transmission line?

73, ac6xg



Article: 215291 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com>
References: <42d734e8$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db91ma$5bs$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d82ab2$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <vscgd1pjb3it4ji9cqp5uh4m3k1j59alv6@4ax.com> <42d87fa4_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <p86hd1hfvtb9m7o1nbmtf871u1o7rnp72i@4ax.com> <42d9040e$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <01aid1tmrojvalnv11turjhemcdd7h08h0@4ax.com> <42d942e7$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <3fmid1lc9g29fmahm0e8f2j1a806au0i33@4ax.com> <42d98824$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:53:37 -0400
Message-ID: <b9607$42dc170d$97d55ac3$2270@ALLTEL.NET>

11001000 nW

"Richard Clark" <kb7qhc@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 17:15:58 -0500, Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Bubba, you can't even answer simple power questions like:
> You have a one square cm target that is irradiated with
> 64 microWatts of 660nM radiation at a distance of 1M
> from a light bulb.  (which is less than the power reflected from
> one of your example interfaces and still visibly quite bright.)
>
> How much power is found in the 555nM spectrum expressed
> in Lux?
>
> Both are power spectrums within a 30nM BW.
>
> How much total power is the light bulb radiating?
>
> Optical engineers can answer this, and I will by midnight.  ;-)
>
> No one expects a binary engineer can (example of a simple 1 or 0).




Article: 215292 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:25:56 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42d87fa4_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <p86hd1hfvtb9m7o1nbmtf871u1o7rnp72i@4ax.com> <42d9040e$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <01aid1tmrojvalnv11turjhemcdd7h08h0@4ax.com> <42d942e7$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <3fmid1lc9g29fmahm0e8f2j1a806au0i33@4ax.com> <42d98824$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com> <42d9cae6$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <dirjd1d9g7vr4qdov3t117irmnk6b2i3er@4ax.com> <42da564b$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <4g5ld19psd1lh96m520bcnhp2rnkd8bqkg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42dc1f6b$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:
> It is a poor example of understanding when you purposely inject error.
> There is nothing clear about intentional mistakes.  Any rejection of a
> complete solution is a suspect agenda from the beginning.

Richard, since you seem to be incapable of understanding the
simplest lossless, refractionless, laser example, it makes
no sense to complicate things with additional details.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 215293 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:31:44 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: zepp antenna matchinig method
References: <qvSdnQWASeJ1bUffRVn-1w@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <42dc20c8_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

larry wrote:
> I am looking for a schematic diagram of a zepp antenna, including the 1/4
> matching line and and matchiing method of 50 ohm coax cable...

Larry, the Zepp was *never* designed to match 50 ohms. It was
designed to be used with tube final rigs which contained
built-in antenna tuners of one sort or another. Moral: A Zepp,
when used with 50 ohm transmitter, is going to require an
antenna tuner unless you are extremely lucky on one frequency.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 215294 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Henry Kolesnik" <kolesnik@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Air Force One coax ??
Message-ID: <hdVCe.501$9D1.19@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:31:57 GMT

At the OKC hamfest I  got a piece of neat looking coax that is double 
shielded with silver braid, with a sort of clear pink outer cover.  It has 
connectors so I don't know the thickness of the center conductor.
It's stamped with the following characters:
68999, AA-2831. 81205, 204-15578-1, AUGUST 1996

I asked the seller, an ex-Boeing employee about it and he said it's the same 
kind as used in Air Force One.  He couldn't recall the specs but said it was 
Teflon, good to a Gig but  he had used it outdoors. for 2 meters and 440.

Can anyone tell me more or point me to a site?
tnx
-- 

73
Hank WD5JFR


I've tried to find the specs but get only one hit googling::
http://www.waea.org/tech/techdocs/SatSpec0798V1.doc

This site kind of confirms what the seller said.





Article: 215295 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:35:16 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <p86hd1hfvtb9m7o1nbmtf871u1o7rnp72i@4ax.com> <42d9040e$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <01aid1tmrojvalnv11turjhemcdd7h08h0@4ax.com> <42d942e7$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <3fmid1lc9g29fmahm0e8f2j1a806au0i33@4ax.com> <42d98824$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com> <42d9cae6$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <dirjd1d9g7vr4qdov3t117irmnk6b2i3er@4ax.com> <42da564b$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <4g5ld19psd1lh96m520bcnhp2rnkd8bqkg@4ax.com> <vcamd1dq3necesp754e5dapmfjck15vkkq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42dc219c$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:
> It comes as no great surprise that this simple example of optical
> power is so powerfully baffling to a neophyte.

Who said it is baffling? The problem is that if you cannot understand
the simplest of examples involving lossless, refractionless, laser
systems, you cannot possibly understand anything more complicated.
I haven't even read past your inability to understand that simple
example.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 215296 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:40:35 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42da5325$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <6018-42DBC059-504@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <42dc22da$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Harrison wrote:
> When the source end of a transmission line is effectively a short or
> open circuit, ir re-reflects the reflected wave.

Yep, which is exactly what happens with W7EL's "Food For Thought #1".
The fact that Roy didn't choose to mention the 2.828 amps of current
flowing in the middle that 1/2WL of transmission line is interesting.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 215297 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:46:27 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42da5325$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <6018-42DBC059-504@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net> <dbgpua$pls$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <42dc243b$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Jim Kelley wrote:

> Richard Harrison wrote:
>> When the source end of a transmission line is effectively a short or
>> open circuit, ir re-reflects the reflected wave.
> 
> Are we then supposed to infer that it [the source] doesn't re-reflect 
> the wave if anything other than a short or open circuit appears there?

To that list of two, we can add two more. If the source end of a
transmission line is terminated in a pure reactance, it re-reflects
the reflected wave.

When 100% wave cancellation of reflected waves occurs at the source
due to total destructive interference, it re-reflects the reflected
wave energy components as constructive interference energy in the
opposite direction. Anything else would violate the conservation
of energy principle.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 215298 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
Subject: Re: QUESTION:  Roach/Squid Pole Antenna for 10, 20 and 40m?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:52:00 -0000
Message-ID: <11do940opkhk648@corp.supernews.com>
References: <1121721943.632950.150070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

In article <1121721943.632950.150070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
 <Timothy@tholtom.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
 
Might I ask a favor?  If you're going to post using an email address
which doesn't exist, could you please use one which *obviously*
doesn't exist (e.g. one ending in the .INVALID pseudo-domain, or in
EXAMPLE.COM)?  It's a bit frustrating to write you a reply and then
have it immediately bounce back in my face :-(

>I am now the proud owner of a 8m collapsable carbon fiber roach fishing
>pole.
>
>I live on the 9th floor the (top floor) of an appartment block.  I have
>a hemi-eliptical balcony, about 3-4 meters across, I have a steel
>balcony railing streching around enclosing it.  There is a steel drain
>dipe running through one corner of the balcony.  I have unlimited
>height (blue sky).    I thought of lashing (or using sterling hose
>clips) to secure the first section of the roach pole to the one corner
>of the balcony, then I thought of using the top of the fishing rod to
>suspend one end of a trapped dipole or G5RV(?) antenna, and fixing the
>other via an insulator to an eye hook in the wall...
>
>Only problem is the pole might be struggling to support the weight of
>the trapped dipole.....(?)
>
>With the above features, what would be the optimum 10, 20 and 40m
>solution given the space I have, roach pole (supports limited weight),
>drain pipe (good ground??), balcony etc...

Hmmm.  I can't say "optimum" but I think you'd be able to get some
very usable performance out of a system in which you use the balcony
railing as a support and ground/counterpoise, mount a support and
insulator of some sort at one end of the railing which holds the
fishing pole outwards at an angle of about 45 degrees, run a wire up
the pole as your radiating element, and use some sort of
tuner/matching system at the support/insulator point to tune the
system.

8 meters of wire as a radiator is more than you need for a
quarter-wave on 20 meters - you'd actually get a bit of gain out of
it.  It's not quite 1/4 wave on 40 meters, but it's probably close
enough that a halfway decent tuner (or the addition of a small loading
coil) at the base could give you a good match on 40 meters as well.

Hooking up the railing to the drain pipe (if not already connected)
might increase the efficiency of the ground/counterpoise system.
However, it might also increase the risk of RF going where you don't
want it, and creating shock, burn, or TVI risks for other residents of
your building.  There can also be problems where drainpipe segments
meet... if the junction is corroded or is just force-fitted together,
the metal-to-metal junction can act as a rectifier and create lots of
harmonics and other RF nasties.

Take a look at The St. Louis Vertical QRP antenna project:
http://www.amqrp.org/projects/stluisvert/STLV%20Project.html

-- 
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org>                                   AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
  I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
     boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!


Article: 215299 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:05:44 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com> <6294-42D9E987-132@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net> <42da5325$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <dbgsst$r38$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <42dc28c0$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Jim Kelley wrote:

> Cecil Moore wrote:
>> Measuring the current at the mid-point of that
>> 1/2WL of feedline will prove the feedline is filled with
>> EM wave energy which must travel at the speed of light.
> 
> So it follows that measuring voltage at the wall outlet proves there's 
> energy filling the wall.  As always, it's important to remember that any 
> such energy would of course be traveling at the speed of light - and no 
> faster.  :-)

There are thousands of unterminated wall outlets and hundreds of
terminated wall outlets spaced only a fraction of a wavelength from
each other. By all means, if you cannot understand the simplest of
examples, create an example that is so complicated that nobody can
understand. This is an example of someone trying to obfuscate things
in order to reduce everyone down to his/her low level of understanding.

> Noting of course that EM energy can't normally put itself back into the 
> source after it's done bouncing around.  So, since there's no load and 
> the system is lossless, no energy is produced or transferred, which 
> means zero power.

Zero *NET* power has nothing to do with the component powers. All it means
is that the forward power and reflected power are equal. The losses in
a real world transmission line depend upon the magnitude of the forward
and reflected powers which pretty much shoots your illogical argument in
the foot.

The higher the voltage applied to a real-world 1/2WL transmission line,
the greater the losses absorbed by the feedline. How the heck do you
explain that one by neglecting forward and reflected energy?
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 215301 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:46:17 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42c695c0$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <42c7f8f6.3567850@news.crosslink.net> <42c832be$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <daur1o$7k4$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d3c5c5$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db1evm$eqg$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d48ff5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db3nqu$hed$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5c2b1$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <db4gcr$t5n$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42d5de67$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <etvbd1t96opkvo5dbnkre69uvo504d9a59@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42dc3241$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:

> Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>Most of your past objections are personal opinions
> 
> Curious how you flail at these imaginary demons and blow off his
> actual quote from your source negating your premise.

Curious how you delete "his actual quote ... negating my premises".
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 215302 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:48:36 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <dbgpua$pls$1@news.service.uci.edu> <15054-42DC012F-630@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net> <dbh4eg$15q$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <42dc32cb$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Jim Kelley wrote:
> And isn't it true that if there were actually a real hard short or a 
> complete open circuit at the source, there wouldn't even be a signal on 
> the transmission line?

Yep, that's why one cannot use circuit analysis on distributed
network problems.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 215303 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Jim Kelley <jwkelley@nospam.edu>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:41:38 -0700
Message-ID: <dbhb7h$43h$1@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <42da5325$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <6018-42DBC059-504@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net> <dbgpua$pls$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42dc243b$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>



Cecil Moore wrote:

> Jim Kelley wrote:
> 
>> Richard Harrison wrote:
>>
>>> When the source end of a transmission line is effectively a short or
>>> open circuit, ir re-reflects the reflected wave.
>>
>>
>> Are we then supposed to infer that it [the source] doesn't re-reflect 
>> the wave if anything other than a short or open circuit appears there?
> 
> 
> To that list of two, we can add two more. If the source end of a
> transmission line is terminated in a pure reactance, it re-reflects
> the reflected wave.
> 
> When 100% wave cancellation of reflected waves occurs at the source
> due to total destructive interference, it re-reflects the reflected
> wave energy components as constructive interference energy in the
> opposite direction. Anything else would violate the conservation
> of energy principle.

In other words a system in which all of the power from the source 
reaches the load and none is reflected back to the source without first 
reflecting then re-reflecting would violate conservation of energy.

It's like saying a ball violates conservation of energy if it rolls down 
  hill without first passing through a Rube Goldberg contraption.

jeez, ac6xg



Article: 215304 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:56:00 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42da5325$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <6018-42DBC059-504@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net> <dbgpua$pls$1@news.service.uci.edu> <42dc243b$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <dbhb7h$43h$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <42dc3488$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Jim Kelley wrote:
> In other words a system in which all of the power from the source 
> reaches the load and none is reflected back to the source without first 
> reflecting then re-reflecting would violate conservation of energy.

Everything I said is 100% consistant with the laws of physics.
Your "in other words" statements violate the laws of physics.
Every "in other words" statement that you have ever made, Jim,
has been 100% incorrect. Maybe you should try to understand
the concept before offering an "in other words" statement?
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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Article: 215305 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com>
References: <42d82ab2$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <vscgd1pjb3it4ji9cqp5uh4m3k1j59alv6@4ax.com> <42d87fa4_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <p86hd1hfvtb9m7o1nbmtf871u1o7rnp72i@4ax.com> <42d9040e$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <01aid1tmrojvalnv11turjhemcdd7h08h0@4ax.com> <42d942e7$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <3fmid1lc9g29fmahm0e8f2j1a806au0i33@4ax.com> <42d98824$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com> <b9607$42dc170d$97d55ac3$2270@ALLTEL.NET> <hg6od154fh6ivg6d7ploqq9t3t07vtfhcu@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:14:41 -0400
Message-ID: <a2098$42dc4601$97d55ac3$13693@ALLTEL.NET>

There are 10 types of people, those that understand binary and those that
don't...

"Richard Clark" <kb7qhc@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hg6od154fh6ivg6d7ploqq9t3t07vtfhcu@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:53:37 -0400, "Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com>
> wrote:
>
> >11001000 nW
> >
>
> Hi Fred,
>
> Well, actually 11011100 nW, but as you are within 1010% you have
> certainly come closer than any other binary engineer.   ;-)
>
> 73's
> Richard Clark, KB7QHC




Article: 215306 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com>
References: <jAUCe.99834$qm.31465@bignews5.bellsouth.net> <1121722340.228348.223760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Affordable HF antennas
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:21:04 -0400
Message-ID: <12587$42dc4787$97d55ac3$13936@ALLTEL.NET>

Given that logic, I assume you drive a model T.

"Rick Scott" <RickN7HJ@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1121722340.228348.223760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Or you could pay 175 for the Original made by the original Designer.
> Why should it be 240-350 when 175 will do ?
>




Article: 215307 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Bjay" <ben.bensweb@virgin.net>
Subject: What is the MFJ magic circle ?
Message-ID: <cRXCe.3050$Wi3.1239@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:31:04 GMT

I have tried to find detailed information about the MFJ-935 or 936 Loop 
Tuner but so far it has remained a mystery.

No one seems to know what is inside the box, this is surely out of character 
with the Ham Radio hobby, unless maybe things have changed so much that we 
now accept any black box without question.

If you have dared to peak inside a magic circle box please tell

Thanks
 




Article: 215308 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: squeege boy <none@personainternet.com>
Subject: small shortwave antenna
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 22:39:02 -0230
Message-ID: <4lkod157rpimgd23vspi0jp0sradpce3rs@4ax.com>

I am livign in an apartment, so I cant transmit (no towers and what
not) so I am looking for what would suit my needs best for HF and
shortwave recption in general

I have googled a bit and havent found much in the way of easy to build
or easy to obtain parts to build antennas

any help would be really appreciated
cheers


Article: 215309 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Old Ed" <eXseniorsDeleteThisAndTheX@earthlink.net>
References: <jAUCe.99834$qm.31465@bignews5.bellsouth.net> <1121722340.228348.223760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <12587$42dc4787$97d55ac3$13936@ALLTEL.NET> <cvednbVy8tLOxkHfRVn-rw@comcast.com>
Subject: Re: Affordable HF antennas
Message-ID: <NuZCe.184$Uk3.38@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 02:23:41 GMT

Hi Rick,

Why so argumentative?

As far as I'm concerned, the more good ol' boys we have making
different antennas, the more choices we'll have.  Do you think
choice is a bad thing?  If someone else's antenna offers better
value than the poster (in your opinion), then buy someone else's
antenna.  That's how the free market works.  8-)

Ed

"Rick Scott" <rickn7hj@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cvednbVy8tLOxkHfRVn-rw@comcast.com...
> Fred W4JLE wrote:
> > Given that logic, I assume you drive a model T.
> >
> > "Rick Scott" <RickN7HJ@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1121722340.228348.223760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >>Or you could pay 175 for the Original made by the original Designer.
> >>Why should it be 240-350 when 175 will do ?
>
> No, But your own argument is that you shouldnt pay 5-700 dollars for
> somthing that yours does the same for 240-350.
>
> So using your argument, why pay 240-350 for somthing that the Original
> does for 175 ????





Article: 215310 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: lightning protection
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:10:35 -0500
Message-ID: <10767-42DC611B-529@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net>
References: <XNudnTl0vud4jEHfRVn-1Q@comcast.com>

Ham Op wrote:
"Physical damage is generally caused by direct strikes."

Lightning can produce awsome distruction from its millions of volts and
thousands of amps. Stories about it are informative, amusing, and
abundant.

Damage is mostly avoidable. High towers are nearly certain to be struck
repeatedly in passing thunderstotms. I`ve worked in medium wave
broadcasting, Short wave broadcasting, land-mobile radio, aircraft
radio, and microwave relay systems aplenty. I worked decades with a
worldwide corporation that had towers across the U.S.A. and several
other countries in the world. That corporation had its many towers
fitted with inverted Copperweld ground rods at the top to serve as
lightning rods to take most of the hits the towers received. At their
bottoms, the towers` lightning energy was shunted off to the earth
through ground rods driven into the soil around the towers. It worked.
There was no vaporized coax, tower lighting wires, or anything else.

We had to operate perpetually. We couldn`t pull the switch and throw the
coax out the window, even if someone were on hand to do so.

Evidence of lightnong strikes were the small pits it made in the
lightning rods.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



Article: 215311 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com>
References: <jAUCe.99834$qm.31465@bignews5.bellsouth.net> <1121722340.228348.223760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <12587$42dc4787$97d55ac3$13936@ALLTEL.NET> <cvednbVy8tLOxkHfRVn-rw@comcast.com>
Subject: Re: Affordable HF antennas
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 22:22:04 -0400
Message-ID: <1d4d7$42dc6616$97d55ac3$18908@ALLTEL.NET>

Rick the original has limited power handling capability, a small diameter
coil and no posititioning circuitry or automatic control. Compare it for
example with the offering from http://thescrewdriver.com   Compare the specs
of some of the offerings of other vendors as well.

While I agree that some out there are junk, a number have made improvements
in construction, control, and power handling capabilities.

Or you can do as I have done and build your own. Assuming you have a friend
that has a lathe to cut the grooves in your core material, your willing to
rework a screwdriver motor, find a couple of friends to build one with you,
it can be built for about $70.00.
.
If you do it by yourself, be prepared to buy a 12 foot length of copper vent
pipe and not use 8 feet of it. Minimum orders for phospher bronze finger
stock, and a minimum of 12 mailing tubes and covers of which you will use
one of each. Then you are talking about $130.00 for materials not counting
the PVC, matching coil, control box, capacitors, and mounting hardware.

Had I not been involved with a bunch of great guys over by North Augusta, I
doubt I would have built one myself.

"Rick Scott" <rickn7hj@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cvednbVy8tLOxkHfRVn-rw@comcast.com...
> Fred W4JLE wrote:
> > Given that logic, I assume you drive a model T.
> >
> > "Rick Scott" <RickN7HJ@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1121722340.228348.223760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >>Or you could pay 175 for the Original made by the original Designer.
> >>Why should it be 240-350 when 175 will do ?
>
> No, But your own argument is that you shouldnt pay 5-700 dollars for
> somthing that yours does the same for 240-350.
>
> So using your argument, why pay 240-350 for somthing that the Original
> does for 175 ????




Article: 215312 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bob Miller <NOSPAM@neosoft.com>
Subject: Re: Affordable HF antennas
Message-ID: <vfpod1pkrrnsjkb9je7l213ispo5r9dcac@4ax.com>
References: <jAUCe.99834$qm.31465@bignews5.bellsouth.net> <1121722340.228348.223760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <12587$42dc4787$97d55ac3$13936@ALLTEL.NET> <cvednbVy8tLOxkHfRVn-rw@comcast.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 02:35:46 GMT

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 18:46:15 -0700, Rick Scott <rickn7hj@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Fred W4JLE wrote:
>> Given that logic, I assume you drive a model T.
>> 
>> "Rick Scott" <RickN7HJ@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1121722340.228348.223760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> 
>>>Or you could pay 175 for the Original made by the original Designer.
>>>Why should it be 240-350 when 175 will do ?
>
>No, But your own argument is that you shouldnt pay 5-700 dollars for 
>somthing that yours does the same for 240-350.
>
>So using your argument, why pay 240-350 for somthing that the Original
>does for 175 ????

Maybe you should ask Rummy why he's paying $100,000+ for Hummers when
the Original, the Jeep, runs about $16,000.

bob
k5qwg




Article: 215313 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Old Ed" <eXseniorsDeleteThisAndTheX@earthlink.net>
References: <4lkod157rpimgd23vspi0jp0sradpce3rs@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: small shortwave antenna
Message-ID: <hIZCe.592$0C.67@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 02:38:05 GMT

Hi Squeege,

Check out the Sony AN-LP1.  It works very well, and I don't
think you can beat it at the size.  It's particularly nice with
Sony's budget HF receiver, the ICF-SW7600GR.  Just stick
the suction cup on your apartment window, and you're in
business.

Ed

"squeege boy" <none@personainternet.com> wrote in message
news:4lkod157rpimgd23vspi0jp0sradpce3rs@4ax.com...
> I am livign in an apartment, so I cant transmit (no towers and what
> not) so I am looking for what would suit my needs best for HF and
> shortwave recption in general
>
> I have googled a bit and havent found much in the way of easy to build
> or easy to obtain parts to build antennas
>
> any help would be really appreciated
> cheers





Article: 215314 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: W9DMK<nobody@crosslink.net> (Robert Lay)
Subject: Re: zepp antenna matchinig method
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 03:02:36 GMT
Message-ID: <42dc6c53.20752430@news.crosslink.net>
References: <qvSdnQWASeJ1bUffRVn-1w@rogers.com> <42db0dd6.2470462@news.crosslink.net>

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 02:05:56 GMT, W9DMK<nobody@crosslink.net> (Robert
Lay) wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 19:54:10 -0400, "larry" <larya@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>>Greetings
>>
>>I am looking for a schematic diagram of a zepp antenna, including the 1/4
>>matching line and and matchiing method of 50 ohm coax cable...
>>
>>Are there any website which would show this?...
>>
>>Larry ve3fxq
>>
>>
>
>Dear Larry,
>
>There's nothing to show - it's too simple for a picture. You just take
>a 1/2 wavelength of horizontal antenna and you end-feed it from one
>side of a piece of balanced line 1/4 wavelength long. You then link
>couple that to the final tank coil and do your matching with the
>swinging link and the tank circuit. No equations, no schematics or
>pictures - just do it!
>
>
>Bob, W9DMK, Dahlgren, VA

Perhaps, to do it justice, I should explain that my one and only
experience with a Zepp antenna was in a situation in which the 1/4
wave balanced line section was open wire feeders with about 6" spacing
and the transmitter used a pair of plate modulated, push pull 10's as
the final - link coupled, as I already mentioned. In those days no one
had a clue as to load impedances or conjugate matching. We had an RF
ammeter in the transmission line and we tuned everything for maximum
reading on that meter. Those were the days.

Bob, W9DMK, Dahlgren, VA
Replace "nobody" with my callsign for e-mail
w9dmk<at>crosslink<dot>net
http://www.qsl.net/w9dmk
http://zaffora/f2o.org/W9DMK/W9dmk.html



Article: 215315 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: W9DMK<nobody@crosslink.net> (Robert Lay)
Subject: Re: What is the MFJ magic circle ?
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 03:06:11 GMT
Message-ID: <42dc6d72.21038892@news.crosslink.net>
References: <cRXCe.3050$Wi3.1239@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:31:04 GMT, "Bjay" <ben.bensweb@virgin.net>
wrote:

>I have tried to find detailed information about the MFJ-935 or 936 Loop 
>Tuner but so far it has remained a mystery.
>
>No one seems to know what is inside the box, this is surely out of character 
>with the Ham Radio hobby, unless maybe things have changed so much that we 
>now accept any black box without question.
>
>If you have dared to peak inside a magic circle box please tell

I have a Cushcraft R-7, which I got by trading in an R-7000 (long
story). It has a black box about 8" x 6" x 2" that is the matching
network, etc., into which the 50 ohm coax from the transceiver plugs.
I opened it up once and had a good look around. I closed it back up
and have never given it another thought.


Bob, W9DMK, Dahlgren, VA
Replace "nobody" with my callsign for e-mail
w9dmk<at>crosslink<dot>net
http://www.qsl.net/w9dmk
http://zaffora/f2o.org/W9DMK/W9dmk.html



Article: 215316 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 22:23:35 -0500
Message-ID: <985-42DC7237-196@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net>
References: <42dc3488$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Jim Kelley wrote:
"In other words a system in which all of the power from the source
reaches the load and none is reflected back to the source without first
reflecting then re-reflecting would violate conservation of energy."

Conservation of energy means that energy is neither created nor
destroyed, but that heat and other forms of energy are quantitifiable
and convertable in their equivalence. The total amount of mechanical,
thermal, chemical, electrical, and other forms of energy in any isolated
system remains constant. A century ago, Einstein broadened the law to
include equivalence of mass and energy. 

Regardless of reflections and re-reflections, all the energy sourced
into a transmission line ends up in the load if it isn`t lost in
transmission by radiation or conversion into heat. There`s no place else
for it to go.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI



Article: 215317 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: BKR <TAKEOUTTHISPARTrchvid7@lycos.comREMOVE>
Subject: Re: zepp antenna matchinig method
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:49:41 -0600
Message-ID: <11dou47rlt94e2f@corp.supernews.com>
References: <qvSdnQWASeJ1bUffRVn-1w@rogers.com>

There is no problem matching up a zep for a modern transciever.
Think of it as a J-pole with the long end bent over horizontally.
Short the bottom of the quarter wavelength section, and find a point
above that to match to 50 Ohms as seen on an antenna analyzer or bridge.

Should be easy.



larry wrote:

> Greetings
> 
> I am looking for a schematic diagram of a zepp antenna, including the 1/4
> matching line and and matchiing method of 50 ohm coax cable...
> 
> Are there any website which would show this?...
> 
> Larry ve3fxq
> 
> 


Article: 215318 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Fred W4JLE" <w4jle@w4jle.com>
References: <jAUCe.99834$qm.31465@bignews5.bellsouth.net> <1121722340.228348.223760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <12587$42dc4787$97d55ac3$13936@ALLTEL.NET> <cvednbVy8tLOxkHfRVn-rw@comcast.com> <1d4d7$42dc6616$97d55ac3$18908@ALLTEL.NET> <PrSdnaJBt_Cc80HfRVn-qg@comcast.com>
Subject: Re: Affordable HF antennas
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:15:20 -0400
Message-ID: <26de$42dc7e61$97d55ac3$22442@ALLTEL.NET>

Rick you have me confused with someone else, I have never sold a screwdriver
antenna in my life. Not even a used one!

"Rick Scott" <rickn7hj@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:PrSdnaJBt_Cc80HfRVn-qg@comcast.com...
> Fred W4JLE wrote:
> Not to "knock" the name brands in HF mobile, but have you ever wondered
>   why
> they cost so much--up to 700 bucks for a screwdriver all-band mobile
> antenna?  I do because I couln't AFFORD to pay 5-7 hundred bucks for
> a mobile HF antenna!  And it's not the performance you are paying for;
it's
> fancy paint jobs and "consumer" gimmickry that run the price up
>
> This was your original ... Im not Knocking yours.  I only POSTED exactly
> what you did yet you took exception.  WHY?
>
> I cannot afford 5-7 for those nor can I pay 250-350.
>
> But 175 is more reasonable
>
> Why do you Knock MY choice when your advertising YOUR choice.  I was
> mearly Pointing out
>
> > Or you could pay 175 for the Original made by the original Designer.
> > Why should it be 240-350 when 175 will do ?
>
> I pointed out you could pay 175 instead of 240-350.  Then you go on
> in your second to tell me I should go and build one myself go buy the
> stock and YADA YADA. WHY, what does that serve to tell me.  Im shopping,
>   Do you as a sales person who actually is comparing prices for products
> tell me to go build my own.  Would a car dealer ???
>
> I dont see why your so defensive.  If you have a good product people
> will buy it.   Some wont, but to tell me IM wrong for comparing is wrong.
>
> I run 100 watts, always have always will, so what does it do for me to
> have these bigger coils etc.  Hell I run Iron Horse whips and can run
> with a lot of screwdrivers because of the way I install and run them.
> Many swear Im running a Screwdriver already.  So what.
>
> Im looking for a single antenna that does what a screwdriver does.
>
> You posted, I posted an alternate and now your up in arms.
>
> How about if I get all the other MFGs in here to get all up in arms with
> your posting because your saying they are too costly.
>
>
>




Article: 215319 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Elden Fenison <usenet@moondog.org>
Subject: Re: Vertical longwire? Antenna recommendation?
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 05:40:04 -0000
Message-ID: <slrnddp2h2.593.usenet@macmini.moondog.org>
References: <slrnddgsvb.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org> <dba4gs$jtg$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> <slrnddhjk9.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org> <1121566789.814410.79580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <slrnddkb7i.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org> <1121638747.593172.302370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <slrnddm206.2m9.usenet@macmini.moondog.org> <1121704699.339970.227790@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

* Brian Kelly [07/18/2005 16:38 UTC]:
> You're set. Good luck. 

Thanks again for all the tips. 73

-- 
-=Elden=-
http://www.moondog.org


Article: 215320 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison)
Subject: Re: lightning protection
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:36:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1330-42DC9170-611@storefull-3257.bay.webtv.net>
References: <jerseyj69-70EB34.22421518072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com>

Jerry wrote:
"I`m having trouble visualizing doing this grounding without affecting
antenna performance."

Shortwave radio antennas I`ve used were all made from Copperweld wire to
withstand lightning and weather. Also, copper wire can stretch and
fatigue. Copperweld`s steel core prevents this.

Signal Corps rhombic kits use (3) No.12 Copperweld wires twisted
together to make a cable used for antenna and transmission line. A
special Wihd Turbine Company insulator is included to space the line for
600-ohm impedance. These bolt atop short tower secttons used as
transmission line supports. Unless military surplus is available,
substitutions would be necessary. But, open-wire line is rugged and
withstands the challenges.

Pick a place outside your shack to drive ground rods to serve as a
ground bed for your antenna system to dump your lightning strikes to.
Place the rods at about the length of your ground rods away from each
other. The more rods, the better. Cost will prevent too many rods.

Interconnect all the ground rods and connect this ground system to your
electric service ground system. It`s the law in most jurisdictions. 

Run your open-wire line from your antenna to a point above your ground
bed. You need arc-gaps between each transmission line cable and the
earth. Form copper vees to make arc-gaps. The vertex of one Vee is going
to face another to make a pair. Connect one Vee firectly to the earth.
Connect the other of the pair directly to the transmission line cable.
Do the sane for the other transmission line cable.

When the gaps are completed, adjust the space between them until they
flash over from your transmitter power, then back off until they just
don`t flash over. You should now be ready for lightning on the
transmission line. Connect your ladder line, twin lead, coax or whatever
you will use to complete the connection to your radio to your open-wire
line here above your ground bed.

Isolate the radio from the powerline through a brute-force filter with
MOV`s added for lightning suppression.

Audio, control, and any other wires connected to the radio also need
filters with MOV`s added but the current carrying capacity of the
filters can be lower than that required for the power wires in most
cases. A common ground point is required for all these filters.

If you don`t use coax somewhere between your radio and antenna, you will
lose some of the protection it provides. Its close internal spacing
couples its conductors tightly. We found even solid-state receiver
front-ends weren`t endangered by lightning because of grounded antennas
and the coax. It would flash over before it let lightning through.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

  



Article: 215321 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Colin Gunn" <cgunn@telus.net>
Subject: Interesting Marconi BH-30 Linear Amplifier For Sale
Message-ID: <cN0De.137878$tt5.23122@edtnps90>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 06:08:08 GMT

Check out http://www3.telus.net/ve7tnt/ for a unique auto-tune 2x 300-5z
linear amplifier for sale.

Ve7TNT




Article: 215322 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 01:45:26 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <01aid1tmrojvalnv11turjhemcdd7h08h0@4ax.com> <42d942e7$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <3fmid1lc9g29fmahm0e8f2j1a806au0i33@4ax.com> <42d98824$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com> <42d9cae6$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <dirjd1d9g7vr4qdov3t117irmnk6b2i3er@4ax.com> <42da564b$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <4g5ld19psd1lh96m520bcnhp2rnkd8bqkg@4ax.com> <vcamd1dq3necesp754e5dapmfjck15vkkq@4ax.com> <42dc219c$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <f9cod11aeg8348i75gnmqkg6t2eih7s10o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42dca28e$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:
> Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>The problem is that if you cannot understand
>>the simplest of examples involving lossless, refractionless, laser
>>systems, you cannot possibly understand anything more complicated.
> 
> Um, yes.  Can tell us why your example exhibits a reflection product 
> TEN TIMES BRIGHTER THAN THE SUN; when in your words it has canceled
> completely?  :-)

It doesn't. All reflections are eliminated by wave cancellation.
That is a given boundary condition for the simple example.

You can argue that there's no such thing in reality as a
dimensionless point or a line of only one dimension or a
plane of only two dimensions. That doesn't keep such from
being taught as concepts in every plane geometry class.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 215323 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 01:48:00 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42d9040e$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <01aid1tmrojvalnv11turjhemcdd7h08h0@4ax.com> <42d942e7$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <3fmid1lc9g29fmahm0e8f2j1a806au0i33@4ax.com> <42d98824$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com> <42d9cae6$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <dirjd1d9g7vr4qdov3t117irmnk6b2i3er@4ax.com> <42da564b$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <4g5ld19psd1lh96m520bcnhp2rnkd8bqkg@4ax.com> <42dc1f6b$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <tqcod1lugtpo789qm9fbast2u3mcqfmk9u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42dca328$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:

> Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>it makes no sense to complicate things with additional details
> 
> They are your details and you can't do the math.

No, they are your details and I choose not to waste my
time with your logical diversion of the basic issue.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 215324 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 02:26:26 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42dc3488$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <985-42DC7237-196@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <42dcac2a$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Harrison wrote:
> Regardless of reflections and re-reflections, all the energy sourced
> into a transmission line ends up in the load if it isn`t lost in
> transmission by radiation or conversion into heat. There`s no place else
> for it to go.

Hi Richard, does that statement assume that all energy
dissipated as heat in the source was never sourced?
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 215325 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 02:33:05 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42d9040e$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <01aid1tmrojvalnv11turjhemcdd7h08h0@4ax.com> <42d942e7$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <3fmid1lc9g29fmahm0e8f2j1a806au0i33@4ax.com> <42d98824$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com> <42d9cae6$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <dirjd1d9g7vr4qdov3t117irmnk6b2i3er@4ax.com> <42da564b$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <4g5ld19psd1lh96m520bcnhp2rnkd8bqkg@4ax.com> <42dc1f6b$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <tqcod1lugtpo789qm9fbast2u3mcqfmk9u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42dcadb9$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:

> Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>it makes no sense to complicate things with additional details
> 
> They are your details and you can't do the math.  You instead beg it
> doesn't make sense to? Certainly not from the perspective of your
> theories.   ;-)

It seems you have forgotten the purpose of the laser example.
It was supposed to be as much like a transmission line example
as is possible. Refraction is irrelevant in a transmission line
so there's no logical reason to introduce refraction into the
simple laser example. A laser was chosen to make the example
single frequency and coherent like an RF source. Occam's Razor
is used to trim off all irrelevant stuff.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 215326 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 02:42:22 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <3fmid1lc9g29fmahm0e8f2j1a806au0i33@4ax.com> <42d98824$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com> <42d9cae6$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <dirjd1d9g7vr4qdov3t117irmnk6b2i3er@4ax.com> <42da564b$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <4g5ld19psd1lh96m520bcnhp2rnkd8bqkg@4ax.com> <vcamd1dq3necesp754e5dapmfjck15vkkq@4ax.com> <42dc219c$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <f9cod11aeg8348i75gnmqkg6t2eih7s10o@4ax.com> <42dca28e$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <3papd1tsaj5e144nfts6ujioi0g6t8kcpj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42dcafe6$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:

> Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>Um, yes.  Can tell us why your example exhibits a reflection product 
>>>TEN TIMES BRIGHTER THAN THE SUN; when in your words it has canceled
>>>completely?  :-)
>>
>>It doesn't. All reflections are eliminated by wave cancellation.
>>That is a given boundary condition for the simple example.
> 
> If you can't explain it, you simply re-write the math to suit the
> outcome?

The purpose of the laser example is to make it as much like a
transmission line example as possible. A Bird wattmeter indicates
that all reflections are eliminated in the T-line example so
the laser example assumes that as a boundary condition. Your
insistance on rewriting the math to make it as different from a
T-line example as possible is simply a diversion away from the
original purpose.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 215327 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 02:49:35 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42d942e7$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <3fmid1lc9g29fmahm0e8f2j1a806au0i33@4ax.com> <42d98824$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com> <42d9cae6$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <dirjd1d9g7vr4qdov3t117irmnk6b2i3er@4ax.com> <42da564b$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <4g5ld19psd1lh96m520bcnhp2rnkd8bqkg@4ax.com> <42dc1f6b$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <tqcod1lugtpo789qm9fbast2u3mcqfmk9u@4ax.com> <42dca328$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <tvapd152fvau10avb4cif0m5vcm1hd994s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42dcb198$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:
> If
> you don't care to answer for why the reflections of your model are
> TEN TIMES BRIGHTER THAN THE SUN, ...

Already answered. A Bird wattmeter indicates zero reflections
in the T-line example so *ZERO* reflections are assumed as a
boundary condition in the laser example. The net reflections
are NOT ten times brighter than the sun - they are flat black,
by definition.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 215328 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 03:27:06 -0500
From: Cecil Moore <w5dxp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can you solve this 2?
References: <42d942e7$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <3fmid1lc9g29fmahm0e8f2j1a806au0i33@4ax.com> <42d98824$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <hr6jd15rt755h5ee9v1bi1d00sdgqoi9m9@4ax.com> <42d9cae6$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <dirjd1d9g7vr4qdov3t117irmnk6b2i3er@4ax.com> <42da564b$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <4g5ld19psd1lh96m520bcnhp2rnkd8bqkg@4ax.com> <42dc1f6b$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <tqcod1lugtpo789qm9fbast2u3mcqfmk9u@4ax.com> <42dcadb9$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net> <pebpd11j4k7a7fouf5lq8t3460ardatee6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <42dcba63$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>

Richard Clark wrote:
> I have been reminding you of "Glare" and asking for its wavelength for
> months.

I assume you know how to calculate the wavelength of a
single-frequency coherent source like the one assumed
in the laser example. WL=c/f

 >>The purpose of the laser example is to make it as much like a
 >>transmission line example as possible. A Bird wattmeter indicates
 >>that all reflections are eliminated in the T-line example so
 >>the laser example assumes that as a boundary condition.

 >Never met the class of Bird wattmeter that measures laser ...

Didn't say it did. Read it again.
-- 
73, Cecil  http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Article: 215329 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "David J Windisch" <davidjw@cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . . if a . . . .
Message-ID: <t94De.29213$zY4.11683@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 09:58:49 GMT

. . . . . "transmission-line" is  "improperly terminated" at *both* ends, 
that is, "*not* at its surge impedance", then "anything" "sloshing" "to and 
fro" inside the "transmission-line"  will be affected by whatever 
"termination" "anything" "sees".

Is that a good-enough working hallucination?

73, Dave, N3HE





From - Tue Jul 19 10:49:19 EDT 2005
Article: 215330 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Reply-To: "Thierry" <->
From: "Thierry" <->
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
References: <4lkod157rpimgd23vspi0jp0sradpce3rs@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: small shortwave antenna
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:59:45 +0200
Lines: 36
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Xref: news1.isis.unc.edu rec.radio.amateur.antenna:215330


"squeege boy" <none@personainternet.com> wrote in message
news:4lkod157rpimgd23vspi0jp0sradpce3rs@4ax.com...
> I am livign in an apartment, so I cant transmit (no towers and what
> not) so I am looking for what would suit my needs best for HF and
> shortwave recption in general
>
> I have googled a bit and havent found much in the way of easy to build
> or easy to obtain parts to build antennas
>
> any help would be really appreciated
> cheers

Hi,

IMHO there is no miracle to work in such solution. I have the same problem,
having moved in a modern appartment where I am not allowed to erect any
antenna on the roof. So remain the portable solution.

In your case, for reception, why not to test an active magnetic loop
antenna. They cover all the spectrum in continue
see e.g. http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/qsl-ala1530.htm

As you are licensed I think, there are also magnetic loops for TX, see e.g.
www.wimo.de
Only drawback, better to stay over 7m from the antenna due to the magnetic
field generated. If you can do that, it's fine. Its performances are not
better than a dipole but its is somewhat directive. That helps.

Hope this helps.

73
Thierry, ON4SKY
http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry




Article: 215331 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: Bob Miller <NOSPAM@neosoft.com>
Subject: Re: What is the MFJ magic circle ?
Message-ID: <kj0qd1l9p1akhbj5c8vjt6v99am0kloh8t@4ax.com>
References: <cRXCe.3050$Wi3.1239@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:42:35 GMT

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:31:04 GMT, "Bjay" <ben.bensweb@virgin.net>
wrote:

>I have tried to find detailed information about the MFJ-935 or 936 Loop 
>Tuner but so far it has remained a mystery.
>
>No one seems to know what is inside the box, this is surely out of character 
>with the Ham Radio hobby, unless maybe things have changed so much that we 
>now accept any black box without question.
>
>If you have dared to peak inside a magic circle box please tell
>
>Thanks
> 
>

The boxes contain tuners for small loop antennas. Go to the mfj site;
they show an internal picture of the 933 loop tuner. Couple of
variable caps. You might also see if you can download the manuals for
these tuners from the MFJ site -- many are available. 

Or check your ARRL Antenna book for tuning circuits for small loop
antennas. No mystery.

bob
k5qwg





Article: 215332 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Harold Burton" <hwburton@cableone.net>
Subject: Re: Air Force One coax ??
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 09:09:25 -0500
Message-ID: <11dq2cl6cain28d@corp.supernews.com>
References: <hdVCe.501$9D1.19@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net> <IsqdnRQMbLMbmkDfRVn-ig@comcast.com>


"Don Baker" <n2mcg@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:IsqdnRQMbLMbmkDfRVn-ig@comcast.com...
> Henry:
> From: http://www.nrcdxas.org/articles/coax.html
> Amplification of RF (radio-frequency) signals in the new coaxial
> transmission cable was actually greater than 3 db (decibels) per meter per
> meter. (Read that again.)


Sounds like the kind of review that'd show up in QSTs April Issue.(G)

Harold
KD5SAK 




Article: 215333 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: "Henry Kolesnik" <kolesnik@sbcglobal.net>
References: <hdVCe.501$9D1.19@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net> <IsqdnRQMbLMbmkDfRVn-ig@comcast.com>
Subject: Re: Air Force One coax ??
Message-ID: <bZ7De.574$9D1.51@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:18:47 GMT

Don
It's not April 1.  Must be nice to have so much free time on your hands.
-- 

73
Hank WD5JFR

"Don Baker" <n2mcg@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:IsqdnRQMbLMbmkDfRVn-ig@comcast.com...
> Henry:
> From: http://www.nrcdxas.org/articles/coax.html
>
> The recent popularity of a new antenna cable called Skyhighgain Coax has
> created a safety problem for users and a nightmare for firefighters. SHGC
> was developed theoretically by Tricenters Experimental Laboratories, Inc. 
> as
> a signal-boosting element for use in radio and television transmission
> lines. Scientists at TELI discovered that when a bias voltage is applied 
> to
> the special material used to make SHGC the effect was incredible. Instead 
> of
> simply reducing signal loss, the signal strength increased!
>
> Amplification of RF (radio-frequency) signals in the new coaxial
> transmission cable was actually greater than 3 db (decibels) per meter per
> meter. (Read that again.)
>
> In laymen's terms, that means that for every 10 centimeters a signal 
> travels
> through the cable the signal strength doubles! Put 1 Watt of RF energy 
> into
> one end of a one meter length of SHGC and you get 2 Watts at the other end
> (assuming you supply the bias voltage, of course). At two meters you get 4
> Watts. At three meters the signal strength increases to eight Watts.
> Doubling the power every meter the total effective power of the signal
> exceeds 1,000 Watts by the time it has traveled only 10 meters up the 
> line.
>
> Now imagine what would happen if you had a 100-meter SHGC cable. (The 
> actual
> figures are shown at the end of this article.)
>
> In conventional transmission lines there is always some loss of signal
> depending upon frequency and the electric characterists of the cable. But
> with SHGC, instead of a loss, you get a gain in signal strength. This is 
> the
> stuff every radio engineer has dreamed of.
>
> But here's the problem. The unwary (and mathematically challanged) average
> user seems to think that if a short section of SHGC inserted in his
> transmission line is good, then a longer one is better. If one were to, 
> say
> substitute SHGC for the complete run from their radio shack to the top of
> their tower, the signal would have more energy than the cable (or the
> antenna) could withstand. (The 20-meter traps on the tri-band beam that 
> used
> to be on the 60-meter Rohn 25g tower behind the house in the photograph
> above were never found.)
>
> Designed to be used in short sections between standard coax and the 
> antenna,
> SHGC is not currently available, pending the resolution of certain 
> limiting
> manufacturing capabilities. Some reports have surfaced however that a few
> samples of the hot-pink colored coax have somehow slipped past reality
> checkpoints and made their way into the Amateur (and amateur) community. 
> And
> without official spec sheets and installation guides SHGC poses a
> significant hazard to the uneducated.
>
> The following table dramatically illustrates the danger of using too much
> Skyhighgain Coax in any transmission line.
>
> Length of Coax / Power Output
>
> 1 meters - 2 Watts
> 2 meters - 4 Watts
> 3 meters - 8 Watts
> 4 meters - 16 Watts
> 5 meters - 32 Watts
> 6 meters - 64 Watts
> 7 meters - 128 Watts
> 8 meters - 256 Watts
> 9 meters - 512 Watts
> 10 meters - 1,024 Watts
> 11 meters - 2,048 Watts
> 12 meters - 4,096 Watts
> 13 meters - 8,192 Watts
> 14 meters - 16,384 Watts
> 15 meters - 32,768 Watts
> 16 meters - 65,536 Watts
> 17 meters - 131,072 Watts
> 18 meters - 262,144 Watts
> 19 meters - 524,288 Watts
> 20 meters - 1,048,576 Watts
> 21 meters - 2,097,152 Watts
> 22 meters - 4,194,304 Watts
> 23 meters - 8,388,608 Watts
> 24 meters - 16,777,216 Watts
> 25 meters - 33,554,432 Watts
> As you can see, by the time you reach only 20 meters, the signal power has
> exceeded a million Watts! Assuming your facility's commercial power mains
> could handle the load, the signal would exceed 30 million Watts at only 25
> meters from the transmitter.
>
> Of course, most power main breakers would trip long before the million 
> Watt
> level, but once the signal starts up the transmission line the peak 
> envelope
> power (PEP) climbs so fast that there is a possibility that the circuit
> breakers would either fuse or the electric current would simply jump the
> breaker's open switch gap and power would continue to increase until the
> primary main lines evaporated in what could only be described as an
> artificial bolt of lightning, showering every surrounding structure in hot
> plasma and sparks.
>
>
> "Henry Kolesnik" <kolesnik@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:hdVCe.501$9D1.19@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>> At the OKC hamfest I  got a piece of neat looking coax that is double
>> shielded with silver braid, with a sort of clear pink outer cover.  It 
>> has
>> connectors so I don't know the thickness of the center conductor.
>> It's stamped with the following characters:
>> 68999, AA-2831. 81205, 204-15578-1, AUGUST 1996
>>
>> I asked the seller, an ex-Boeing employee about it and he said it's the
> same
>> kind as used in Air Force One.  He couldn't recall the specs but said it
> was
>> Teflon, good to a Gig but  he had used it outdoors. for 2 meters and 440.
>>
>> Can anyone tell me more or point me to a site?
>> tnx
>> -- 
>>
>> 73
>> Hank WD5JFR
>>
>>
>> I've tried to find the specs but get only one hit googling::
>> http://www.waea.org/tech/techdocs/SatSpec0798V1.doc
>>
>> This site kind of confirms what the seller said.
>>
>>
>>
>
>