From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 10:28:43 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06247 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:28:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01930 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:31:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141531.KAA01930@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:31:38 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0001A" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 139937 Lines: 2992 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 11:28:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: glbarbor@JUNO.COM Subject: Re: Bee helmets, hats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear William, Don't know where you are, but Amish hats are readily available in this part of Pennsylvania. I would suspect the same to be true in Parts of Ohio and Indiana and other areas of the mid-west where the Amish have settled. I don't know what the cost might be. Jerry in PA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 07:23:47 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Gabon or Apistan In-Reply-To: <199912311342.IAA16721@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Can you tell us more about Gabon PA 92? What is the active ingredient? Who > is the manufacturer? Is it available outside of the Chek Republic? Gabon strips and Gabon PA 92 have been discussed in 13 messages available by searching at the site below. The discussion so far has covered the formulation, dosage, constituents, efficacy, and comparison to Apistan. Search for 'gabon' allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 10:27:31 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bee helmets, hats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All of the woven bee helmets I own have what appear to be 4 pop rivets which keep the elastic from riding up. These protrude about 3/16" and they are spaced 2 to a side. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 09:20:28 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: BEESOUNDS In-Reply-To: <199912311435.JAA18406@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great to hear from you, Rex. Maybe the apidictor is a device whose time has come. With modern electronics and laptop portable computers and spectrum analysers, it is possible that this idea could be pursued further and get into common usage. To find what has been said here about it, a simple search at the site below, using 'apidictor' as the key will bring up over 30 hits. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 11:35:23 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tim Subject: dissemination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After reading about "Cordovans" in recent postings etc i was wondering, if they are so prolific would they be any use for the distribution of spores on crops to help rid crops of certain pests. I know at the moment this idea is in fairly early stages but the cordovan could be a good candidate.Does anyone know if this bee forages any great distance? Also i am looking to try out certain methods of dissemination next spring here in the uk. I would be interested if anyone can tell me if there is any equipment commercialy available and also if the necessary spores can be obtained the same way. obviously this has been looked at by some people in the past and any information attaining to dissemination would be appreciated .. I hope you all have a wonderfull 2000 Tim.. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 00:09:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Re: Winter Pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, Around St. Louis, soft Maple will bloom several times, usually following a cold snap, then a warming trend triggers the bloom. I know that the buds on the maples around me are swollen, but I dont think they have begun to bloom. Being in Kentucky, you may be far enough south of me that some Maples have indeed begun to bloom. Another plant that blooms in the dead of winter around here is, I believe, Witch Hazel. I have observed them blooming about the middle of January. They have a white flower, but I am not sure of the pollen color. Supposed to be pretty warm tomorrow, so I will go check my bees, and see if they too are bringing any in. Hope that helps! Scott Moser Jefferson County Beekeepers Association webpage http://Jeffersoncobeekeepers.homestead.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 14:43:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elizabeth Petofi Subject: Re: Bee helmets, hats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Probably the Amish use these hats every summer. Does anyone know how > I > might obtain such a hat for my 2000 season bee clothing? LEHMAN's (catalog) supplies the Amish. They have a web site and also are advertising on the Backwoods Home (Magazine) Forum. I'm sure they have the hats you are seeking but if they don't, they will be able to refer you to the supplier. Elizabeth Petofi Orange, VA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 10:12:44 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: fumidil experiment In-Reply-To: <199912141301.IAA03335@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Perhaps you could be so kind as to update the list members on the results of > the fumidil experiment and the "nosema discussion group" that is on your > webpages. There has been no activity on this discussion group for over a > year I believe. That's true. Eric, who inspired the whole thing, retired from beekeeping and since I found very little nosema the year we did the tests and set up the page, I lost interest. We did some discussion about various alternate application methods for fumigillan, nothing conclusive was established. As it happened this past spring turned out to be the kind of spring that we should have been looking for nosema, but we did not. I had planned to do a bit of a survey this fall and did not, so that is where it rests for now. > I thought the discussion was quite promising and it would > be timely to report to the list given the current thread about prophylactic > drug use in North American bees. Unlike foulbrood and chalkbrood, nosema is > difficult to see without testing (and even *WITH* testing according to the > discussion group and the thread on false positives). True. I suppose if we had found higher levels, I would have more interest, but we have been distracted by the mites. > FWIW, I am somewhat sceptical that comb fumigation with acetic acid, and > comb renewal programs are sufficient to solve the problem (although I do not > disbelieve the European experience). I have doubted the usefulness of this approach, rather believing that taking good care of the bees and using good bees would keep nosema at bay. Any time I have tested, I have found little evidence of the disease. > I started over 200 packages this past > spring from New Zealand, and they were shaken from two different beekeepers. > I also picked up another batch of over 200 for other beekeepers. In both > cases the majority of the load came in excellent condition and some were > very very poor. It was determined that one of the beekeepers had high > levels of nosema and this was the likely cause. I don't know. I've received a number of loads off planes and I think it may have to do with the position of the packages in the load. Also, dry ice is used for cooling and it drugs the bees. Some packages are closer to the chunks and I wonder if they are damaged by it. I have some real doubts about the practice. I know they are pretty stupid for about a day or so after the experience and would never again install bees fresh off the plane without a day minimum to recover. I have also mentioned before that one NZ shipper uses cardboard cages with insufficient screen area. The screen area is about 1/2 of that which others consider necessary. > I believe that bees can probably tolerate some nosema later in the season > and still produce reasonable (but probably lower) honey crops, or at least > that is what experiments that Endel Karmo years ago seemed to show. But > without fumidil I would worry that nosema would hit the bees hardest in the > early spring, just when we here need to push for a fast build-up for the very > early blueberry pollination. Nosema shortens the lives of bees and affects their behaviour, but as with most other bee problems, it is often when a number of factors combine that we notice the impact most. I guess I'll have to make sure I do some nosema checks this coming spring and I will report if I do. Maybe some others will do the same? allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 14:22:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Large Observation Hives (was Cordovan Italians) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by tloloc@DNAI.COM to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove excessive quotes of previous material and to change the "Subject:" field. > ... I think I'll bring them into a cool room in a big (huge?) > observation hive for next winter .... Has anyone got experience with big (huge) observation hives? I am curious about this possibility. Specifically, is it possible to have a self sustaining observation hive. How could the bees form a winter cluster... Sarah Grew ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 16:07:38 -0500 Reply-To: dublgully@fuse.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Judy and Dave Subject: Dec pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard: After reading your post, Dave and I decided to check out our bees and see what they are bringing in. Kentucky weather this year has been a surprise. I think all the animals, plants and bugs are confused. Last night, at midnight, when many neighbors were outside with guns and shotguns making noise, there were a bunch of turkeys on the hillside squawking and gobbling like crazy. Turkeys never gobble at midnight or when it is dark. Anyway, the temperature was in the mid 60s. We have 8 hives. Only one hive was busy flying in and out. (We certainly checked for robbing) The hive flying was Buckfast. The Italians and Carniolans were humming but not flying as much. Sat and watched the landing board. Didn't see any red pollen. But we noticed 4 dandelions in full bloom on the way up to the hives. I did call another beekeeper who doesn't live in the valley like us. He said his bees were bringing in a little bit of maple pollen. I asked what it looked like. He laughed at my ignorance, but told me it is red. Our valley seems to have a micro climate that is almost a full USDA Zone colder than the surrounding hilltops, working out to about a 2 week delay for blooming. Judy Also in Kentucky, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 14:17:19 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Large Observation Hives (was Cordovan Italians) In-Reply-To: <200001011937.OAA15349@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > ... I think I'll bring them into a cool room in a big (huge?) > > observation hive for next winter .... > > Has anyone got experience with big (huge) observation hives? I am curious > about this possibility. Specifically, is it possible to have a self > sustaining observation hive. How could the bees form a winter cluster... A very quick search of the archives from http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm brought me 109 hits using 'observation hive AND winter' as the 'search for' key. The first two I selected from reading the Subject lines answered this. I am sure there is much more there. Observation hives have been a popular topic. As for building such hives, there are links at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ at the bottom of 'What's New' that lead to several sites with plans and discussions of observation hives, including top bar observation hives. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 15:35:29 -0800 Reply-To: "Mark C. Michel" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Mark C. Michel" Subject: Re: "Tales of the Hive" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings; North American persons will be able to view a PBS television program " Tales of the Hive", This coming tuesday. Everyone else can enjoy their web site http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bees/ I hope the program is as interesting as the web site. M. Chris Michel Michel Family Apiaries Poplar Bluff, MO USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 17:57:37 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "W. G. Miller" Subject: Re: Gabon or Apistan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Can you tell us more about Gabon PA 92? What is the active ingredient? Who > is the manufacturer? Is it available outside of the Chek Republic? > Add to this: Where is this legal? W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 16:40:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Italian Cordovan saga cont. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thursday afternoon, despite plenty of syrup, the Cordovans resumed scouting. They were also expelling drones, and melted snow was on the porch. A small trial pollen substitute patty was given. Friday at noon it was half eaten and they were all over it, so they were given a big patty. They stopped flying once the first patty was given, apparently too busy eating, and have not been seen outside since. They had loads of pollen last Fall. Much protein has been used in this hive, more is going in, and very little has come out as dead bees. I contemplate with trepidation the magnitude of what must be in there. Concerning Tim's idea, while these Italian Cordovans are prolific, and this trait is apparently not unique to this colony, I have no idea how general it might be. Who knows whether these bees would cover more ground than other bees as applicators of anything? Concerning Sarah's question through Aaron's post, I doubt that these bees can cluster in the usual manner, yet they are alive. It appears that the boxes are full of bees, perhaps as dense as a cluster. They can be seen thick all over the frame tops, and through the upper entrance. When they take cleansing flights, they use both upper and lower entrances. Perhaps I'm mistaken and they are fewer than they appear to be, but I dare not look inside. Whether they shall survive, or even thrive, shall be known only after we've gotten through this. My mentor once had a colony of Italian Cordovans that acted like these, and they had to have extra boxes of comb inserted during the Winter and Spring whenever bees began to hang out in cold weather. They had to be split into four sizeable colonies when Spring arrived. If clustering is not essential to survival, the price may be lots of food, which price might be offset by the pleasure of watching the bees eat food more conveniently supplied. The deal might be further sweetened if it yielded both observation and bees to sustain a queen bank without sacrifice of a colony. A colony like this might not be "self-sustaining" in winter, but might be sustainable, and possibly even useful. Right now we just hope to hold on to life through daily surprises. I hope we'll know more in four months. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 14:45:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: A beginner's question In-Reply-To: <199912140047.TAA20662@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I got used equipment, in good shape, inspected and all. Inspection doesn't prove much except that there are no *visible* signs of AFB in the equipment. Scale can hide under honey and pollen and moreover spores can be on any surface or in any honey. The inspector should be able to inform you if the outfit you are purchasing has any history of AFB. If it has, then there is a higher likelihood that you will experience AFB if you do not medicate regularly and properly. > Then I got AFB in one colony. Burned it. And treated the > rest with T-25. Well, you do not indicate if you treated other than after you had a breakdown. Assuming you did not, the odds are pretty high that you would see breakdown, due either to your environment or something in the equipment. For some reason we all wish to believe against all odds that our own bee equipment -- whether purchased or new -- is free of disease. We know that in North America, at least, that is very very unlikely to be true, and also not a permanent state, since sources of infection are very likely to appear unannounced in any neighbourhood. Beekeepers travel at night and put down loads of bees in hidden spots. Hobbyists move hives all over the place and keep them where they are not likely to be seen. Widows and relatives wind up with bee equipment after a beekeeper dies -- often after neglecting the bees for a period of time -- and leave it around or haul it out to some handy spot for storage and don't know to keep it covered. Housewives discard unwanted honey in dumpsters. Trucks break down or overturn on nearby roads... > All colonies got used equipment. And T-25 had not > been used in the spring, rather patties. Maybe a bit > of powder but hardly any. And the other colonies were > all fine. In my experience, very few beekeepers follow the instructions when making patties. Some try to get them consumed quickly by adding honey, others get the proportions wrong or use too little TM 25. you can read a lot more at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/. Follow the 'Extender Patties' link. > From what I've said, do you think it came > from the used equipment, was already in the hives and > manages to show itself, or got it from my neighbours or > a feral colony? No one will ever be able to tell you that. And it does not really matter. The simple facts of life in most of the US and Canada is that AFB is everywhere, and any beekeeper who does not acknowledge that and proceed on that assumption will get AFB sooner or later. Sometimes a beekeeper will have luck on his side for a very long time. Many mistake this luck for their being smarter than other beekeepers and maybe even start to lecture others who are less fortunate. Maybe he has obtained resistant bees and does not know it, perhaps, or some other factor will shield him. BUT, the longer one keeps bees, the more hives one keeps , and the more places the bees are kept, the greater the *certainty* becomes that AFB will appear from somewhere. The longer he has been lucky the greater his puzzlement when the inevitable occurs. It's no mystery. AFB happens. > Would appreciate your comments. And > do you think I ought to get rid of it all and start > again, or keep on and hope for the best? Read the logs and learn to live with AFB. Until the whole continent is cleaned up, any individual efforts to become cleaner than the environment are like wearing a clean white suit to work in a coal mine. The best you can hope to do is to control the disease. Many of us control AFB in thousands of hives without seeing any signs of AFB for many years. BUT, we KNOW it is there and will break out anytime we lapse our vigilance. We have a tiger by the tail. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 18:48:36 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Large Observation Hives (was Cordovan Italians) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So far the best large observation hive I have seen was at the Science Museum in Ft Lauderdale. It was in the form of a large tree and you went inside and it was lined with frames of bees maybe 2 dozen combs. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 00:09:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: AHP & ABF Meetings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a reminder about several American bee conventions coming up soon: I got a card in the mail some time back, mentioning the American Honey Producers convention in San Diego January 5th through January 8th. It is being held at the Bahia Resort Hotel 998 West Mission Bay Drive (1-800-288-0770) (1-800-233-8122 from Canada). (The AHP do not seem to have any web or email presence whatsoever that I could find). The ABF convention follows the next week in Fort Worth, Texas, Jan. 12-15. The ABF convention will be held at the Radisson Plaza Hotel, located on the edge of downtown Fort Worth. For more information on the ABF Convention, contact the ABF Office, ph.: 912-427-4233, fax: 912-427-8447, e-mail: info@abfnet.org. This time the two venues are not too close together, but it has crossed my mind to take in one or both. Feb 2nd, the Canadian Honey Council will be meeting in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 04:46:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Graham Law Subject: Large Observation hives and Clustering Quote from Sarah Grew "Has anyone got experience with big (huge) observation hives? I am curious about this possibility. Specifically, is it possible to have a self sustaining observation hive. How could the bees form a winter cluster..." Sarah Don't believe rumours that bees can't cluster in an observation hive, they come pretty close... The first time I over wintered an ob hive I was very puzzled because the population would drop than miraculously pick up again! , all in a period of 24 hours. After closer inspection I could see that when the population 'appeared' to fall that actually nearly every cell towards the centre of the colony was occupied with dormant bees. With both sides of the comb occupied like this a large number of bees seemed to disappear. I guess this is actually what bees do in a normal hive as tucked up within a cell with bees on seven sides out of eight has got to be the smart way of doing it. Our house heating system cycling the temperature (bad for bees) caused this pattern to break with the bees sitting on top of the comb when the temperature was higher. Very large observation hives experiences A colleague in my local assoc stared a full size ob hive consisting of a glass box sized about 3 brood boxes in volume. This built up over 3 years to be a very powerful colony with all natural comb with a tree branch embedded within it. This was a great attraction local shows. However we were starting to scratch our head just how we were going to maintain this monster when the whole thing sadly collapsed due to over heating. We'll learn. But difficult maintenance is a factor to consider if this is the sort of thing you have in mind. I run observation hives all year round which are only 2 brood + 1 super frame and the only real attention is: 1/ To keep an eye on their stores especially through the early spring. 2/ They don't over populate 3/ Varroa treatment, like any colony now (uk). 4/ Once a year cleanout usually combined with 2 or 3 above. Cheers Graham ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:02:09 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Caldeira Subject: Re: Large Observation Hives (was Cordovan Italians) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sarah Grew wrote: >Has anyone got experience with big (huge) observation hives? .... >Specifically, is it possible to have a self sustaining observation hive. It is very possible to maintain a large observation hive through all seasons, indoors or outdoors. Large observation hives are actually easier to maintain than smaller ones, since the bees are less stressed by temperature extremes and lack of room for brood, bees and honey stores. Photos of several year 'round observation hives are on the web at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jcaldeira/beekeeping/obs1.htm The page following it, "Natural Comb Hives", contains general design considerations for long-term observation hives. Other web resources for ideas (in addition to the shameless self-promotion of my own website above) include: http://www.uky.edu/Agriculture/Entomology/entfacts/misc/ef016.htm http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/obshiv.htm -John John Caldeira Dallas, Texas, USA http://home.earthlink.net/~jcaldeira/beekeeping/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:13:27 -0000 Reply-To: John Burgess Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Burgess Subject: Re: Large Observation Hives (was Cordovan Italians) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Aaron Morris > Has anyone got experience with big (huge) observation hives? I am curious New Quay Honey Farm in West Wales has a number of hives set up in large, glass-sided cabinets with access to outside, to enable visitors to see bees in natural environments (section of hollow tree-trunk etc). One display is a colony on standard frames suspended from a rail (no outer box). The visitor can press a button and cause a motor to separate the frames in a zig-zag fashion for observation. After a short interval the motor reverses to close the frames up again, and there is then a delay of several minutes before the cycle can be activated again. I understand that the bees tolerate this disturbance quite well. The brood is protected from both draughts and direct sunlight as the cabinets are inside an exhibition room. Obviously, the set-up is not portable, but then no really huge observation hive would be. Hope this is of interest to you. John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru, The Welsh Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:16:23 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: CHALKBROOD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has there been any recent research on Chalkbrood? When I started beekeeping it was pointed out as something I should be able to recognise so as not to confuse it with anything serious. You would find a small amount in most hives but not much in any although the spores were everywhere. Now it is running wild in many hives. The increase seems to coincide with the arrival of varroa but this may be only a coincidence. It does not seem to subside in a hive after treatment for varroa. We used to be told that damp hives were the cause, but the brood nest where it is to be found has the temperature and humidity rigidly controlled by the bees. I have read that increased CO2 levels to be found near respiring brood are a trigger, but again the bees are sensitive to CO2 and are efficient at air conditioning. Have people who have increased ventillation in their hives through open mesh floors or additional entrances found it helps reduce Chalkbrood? Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:16:21 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: BEESOUNDS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What a fascinating submission from Mr Boys. There has been a revival of interest in the Apidictor lately and it would be good if somebody could pick up this ball and run with it. The valve at the entrance to the spiracles interests me. Would a bee infested with Acarine (tracheal mite to Americans) produce a different sound to one uninfested? Could it be detected and identified with a modified Apidictor? Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 21:56:40 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jon C Peacock Subject: Re: Amish hats To Bill Morong Amish hats can be found with "Lehman's" of Kidron, Ohio P.O.Box 321 44636 e-mail GetLehman@aol.com www.Lehmans.com 330-857-5757 FAX 330-857-5785 Best regards and a Happy Prosperous New Year. J. C. Peacock, :-} Retired from 5 day work week. Grandfather to 6. Small craft sailor. Planting Zone, Cotton, Apples and Peaches & 2 lb tomatoes. 18 yrs B kpr. "Every day discover something new in the every day things around you, look at things differently." Approx; 33.15N, 84.23W jayseapcok@Juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 05:54:00 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: AHPA Convention Schedule & Observation Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AHPA: Does anyone have a schedule for the American Honey Producers Association convention or an internet address? I've searched all over and had no luck. I need to get an airline reservation ASAP, so any help would be much appreciated. Observation Hives: Seeing as there is so much interest in observation hives, I've updated the information at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/. The observation hive info is now on its own page and includes all the worthwhile web sites I was able to find using a power search of ten major search engines. There are some pretty good sites out there. The Observation Hives Page now includes links to, pictures, construction info, web cams, and commercial suppliers. I would love to add even more, so please email any other good links to allend@internode.net. TIA. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:04:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lackey, Raymond" Subject: Large Observation hives and Clustering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I maintain several large observation hives of up to ten frames. They over winter much better than small ones because they have larger buffers of population, space and stores. You can take a look at some on my web page. Raymond J. Lackey Sweet Pines Apiary Honeybee Consultant - North American Fruit Explorers Master Beekeeper - Eastern Apiculture Society/OSU Past President - Long Island Beekeepers Association Speaker -BOCES (schools) and LI Speaker's Association ~40 colonies(honey) >18 years experience on Long Island Phone:(631)567-1936 FAX:(631)262-8053 mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia, NY 11716-2176 web page: http://www.tianca.com/tianca2.html email home: raymondj@cleanweb.net email office: lackeyr@hazeltine.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:12:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: bee clubs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings! We would like to update our beekeeping assoc./club site. E-mail us directly and your listing will bee added. Herb/Norma Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 Rare and Old Beekeeping Books http://www.cybertours.com/%7Emidnitebee/html/books.html Beekeeping Site http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Stony Critters Maine's First Rock Painting Site http://pages.ivillage.com/wh/stonycritters/index.html "an educated consumer is YOUR best customer" =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 12:42:55 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bonbee@AOL.COM Subject: AFB response forwarded MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bonnie: I thought a lot about the e-mail yesterday, and this reply is after its been erased, so some of this response about AFB may be out of sink because I cannot refer back to the letter, but here goes. First it appears this is an old beekeeper and a new beekeeper discussing the inevitability of AFB. The reason the person sees AFB as inevitably and has accepted AFB as an acceptable part of beekeeping is because he has probably never had the desire to put an end to it in his own apiaries by doing what is necessary (burn), and now and worse yet he's perpetuating the disease in an even more contagious manner by advocating and teaching novice beekeepers to expect an accept AFB. He doesn't think he has AFB, he doesn't want to know and never will know, as long as he is feeding terramycin. Its funny the beginner knows what is supposed to be done an is asking an old timer. Its probably an old timer like him that sold him the contaminated equipment to begin with. I have been at this awhile also 30 years worth, my one experience with this scrooge made me even more determined to keep my yards clean and practice hygienic beekeeping. Its also funny we are trying to engineer hygienic behavior in bees, but it is time we worked on hygienic behavior of the beekeeper as well. Genetically alter beekeepers is a must. Forwarded from Denzil StClair, Lorain County, Ohio, Bee Inspector ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:29:54 -0500 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: CHALKBROOD In-Reply-To: <200001030113.UAA17632@listserv.albany.edu> On 2 Jan 00, at 18:16, CSlade777@AOL.COM wrote: > brood are a trigger, but again the bees are sensitive to CO2 and are > efficient at air conditioning. Have people who have increased > ventillation in their hives through open mesh floors or additional > entrances found it helps reduce Chalkbrood? I wrote this up years ago, at the time was accused of trying to sell more hives!! We found on adding our ventilation system to a number of hives the incidence of chalk brood fell, noticeably. At the time the only other suggested cure was to re-queen, which I disagreed with. I couldn't, and still don't understand what the genetics of the queen has to do with a spore disease. That's a bit like suggesting the re-queening of a hive suffering with foul brood, a waste of time. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 5 Edith Drive, R R # 2. Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H2. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, e-mail http://www.beeworks.com **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:14:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Genetic disease resistence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David said "I couldn't, and still don't understand what the genetics of the queen has to do with a spore disease. That's a bit like suggesting the re-queening of a hive suffering with foul brood, a waste of time." Hmmm... I thought it was fairly well documented that: * Bees can have resistance to both Chalkbrood and AFB * That disease in most animals is effected by genetics Now, there are multiple means of disease resistance. Hygienic behavior is one; another is antibodies in the bee circulation system that prevent the disease from progressing to the point of symptoms; another is disinfectant contained in bee salvia used to clean cells; etc. All of these, and more, are being found to be inheritable. This would seem to indicate that selection of queens with resistance would be of real benefit. Perhaps a genetic resistance to AFB is rare (we know it does exist). If so, perhaps Dave meant to say approximately "it is unlikely that re-queening would have any effect on an AFB infection". Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:14:53 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: "Tales of the Hive" Comments: cc: cole888@earthlink.net, jbarthell@ucok.edu, joschmid@u.arizona.edu, greenber@WSUHUB.UC.TWSU.EDU, HPSST-L@POST.QUEENSU.CA, SOCINSCT@listserv.albany.edu, Dadant@dadant.com, KenFrazier@compuserve.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mark Michel wrote (on BEE-L, in part): >North American persons will be able to view a PBS television program " Tales >of the Hive", this coming Tuesday. >Everyone else can enjoy their web site http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bees/ >I hope the program is as interesting as the web site. May I insert a bit of reality. As beekeepers and others watch the program, they might well consider a few relevant facts provided earlier on this network: 1) In its half century of existence, the bee language hypothesis has provided no practical benefit to beekeepers; 2) Apparently no one has been able to repeat James Gould's experiments and obtain his results (a requisite before one should accept such results); 3) Language proponents no longer seem able to phrase a concise scientific statement (one with predictive power) of their favored hypothesis, a necessary condition for future quality research; 4) Much evidence has accumulated that sharply conflicts with the original 1946 Karl von Frisch interpretation (Wenner, A.M. and P.H. Wells 1990, Kak, S.C. 1991, Vadas, R.L. Jr. 1994; 5) A 1937 von Frisch interpretation about odor search behavior has more validity than the highly touted language notion (Wenner, A.M. with K. von Frisch 1993). [ I can readily furnish any of the above mentioned articles,given a mailing address. ] Those interested might also read a letter of mine that I believe will appear in the January issue of the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL. ********** When all is considered, perhaps the NOVA program might better be titled, "Fairy Tales from the Hive." Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ******* * * "The history of physics is the history of giving up cherished ideas." * * Andrew Strominger, Harvard physicist (1999) * **************************************************************************** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:12:48 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Grieneisen Subject: Entomology Event Calendar Comments: To: EntEvent@sciref.org Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 Dear List Member: [Apologies for cross-posting] A truly *comprehensive* source of information regarding events such as commercial meetings, society or association meetings, workshops, professional courses, expositions, seminar series, and other public events that are devoted to general or applied entomology topics would be a very useful resource for the entomological community. Scientific Reference Resources is in the process of compiling an *Entomology Events Calendar* which will remain freely available to all via the Internet. We have identified about 350 individual events that are scheduled to occur during the year 2000 -- those announced on the Internet or in the handful of entomological society newsletters that we have access to -- and have posted the preliminary *Entomology Events Calendar* on the Internet at: http://www.sciref.org/links/EntEvent/index.htm Our definition of "entomology" includes myriapods, acari and other arachnids, as well as insects. The Calendar also includes events devoted to apiculture, "pest control", "crop protection", and "vector control", and will be limited to events with high entomological content. Only a fraction of the events which fit these criteria are now listed on the Calendar -- the total number will certainly be in the thousands. In the interest of providing as complete of a list as possible, we welcome information regarding the events that are currently missing from the Calendar. The Calendars for 2001, 2002, etc., will be posted in the next few days. The content of each entry is presently limited to the most basic information: when and where the event will take place, and how to obtain additional information regarding the event -- either the website or e-mail address for the meeting, for the sponsoring organization, or for a specific contact person. We hope that you will find the Entomology Events Calendar to be a useful source of information, and a valuable tool for publicizing the events that you are involved with for the year 2000 and beyond. Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Dr. Michael L. Grieneisen, President Scientific Reference Resources Post Office Box 73674 Davis, California 95616 USA http://www.sciref.org/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 20:22:41 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Robert J. Bassett" Subject: Re: Genetic disease resistence Comments: cc: benwagg@concentric.net, bwaggoner@autoprodinc.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/03/2000 6:23:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, LloydSpear@EMAIL.MSN.COM writes: << David said "I couldn't, and still don't understand what the genetics of the queen has to do with a spore disease. That's a bit like suggesting the re-queening of a hive suffering with foul brood, a waste of time." >> Disease resistance is an inheritable trait. It really is not even a subject which we should argue about, in view of the overwhelming evidence. We have many examples to look at in order understand the phenomena of disease resistance. Disease resistance is a trait found in all species. Populations exposed to disease will usually have some survivors. In humans, we have experienced plagues throughout history. We're still here! The survivors have continued multiplying, passing their superior resistance (genes which allow them to survive under the pressure of deadly disease) and the plagues have receded. The disease organisms have not necessarily died, but the populations affected, developed 'resistance.' For example, in the Americas, the Europeans brought in a host of deadly diseases (Smallpox, Diphtheria, Cholera, etc.), which decimated entire populations of indigenous people (Indians). These people had never been exposed to the diseases, were not resistant, and succumbed to the plagues. This, more than the actual "conquering" of the native populations, brought about the downfall of some extremely substantial civilizations. The Inca and Mayan cultures have left many edifices which attest to this fact. Not all of the people died as a result of these European diseases. We still have, to this very day, the descendants of those people living in the same areas, moving around among the mixture of populations which have moved in from all parts of the world. The survivors of the original plagues have continued to go on, reproduce, and pass their 'superior resistance' on to their offspring. We interfere with the selection, or development, of disease resistant bees by actually selecting for the strongest disease organisms! We keep hitting the nasty little disease organisms with everything antibiotic we can, in an effort to prolong the life of our bees. If we treat, we can produce. If we don't treat, we.......lose money. If the economic impact was not so great, we might have better stock already. As long as we can keep making 'better' antibiotics and chemicals, we can stave off the inevitable. It really is an economic problem. We have antibiotics which get us to our objective, and we have bees which appear weak, in the face of the onslaught of disease. What we really have is populations of rather ordinary bees which have to stand up to tougher strains of disease or pest organisms! We need to recognise that we are breeding the disease organisms ralong with nour bees! We've really developed some tough diseases with less emphasis on developing tough bees! No, I am not going to say that we should forget our economic considerations, not treat our stock, and go broke trying to find out if we have resistant stock. Too many of us really do have substantial investments. I believe we should at least be wanting to consider the alternative to chemicals by doing some breeding some of our own stock, in our own backyards, without traditional antibiotic treatment. We may find we have some resistant stock already. We cannot continue to rely on the 'other guy' to come up with the good stock. Antibiotic treatment of bees has been going on a long time. It is really short term solution to a long standing problem. The genetics of a queen may really everything to do with a "spore disease" if our antibiotics fail! We can lose a little now or a lot more later. I believe we can do better. I'm sure we can. Bob Bassett "If you continue to do what you are doing, you will continue to get what you are getting". - author unknown ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 20:41:24 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: CHALKBROOD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Slade: Chalk brood is a fungus, and hence, not considered life threatening to bees resulting in little active scientific research. In my 66 years of beekeeping, I have had CB several times in one of my out apiaries, but never in my home apiary. Since all my bees, regardless of what apiary they are in, are treated equally in every detail, I surmised that the difference must be some deviation in the apiary itself. For protection vandalism or theft, I often hid the hives in an out apiary in the woods, but near a creek if possible. I found that hives that had OLDER COMB, enjoyed the coolness of wooded shade and lack of direct sun, and close to water that might have elevated the humidity (dampness) were those most likely to exhibit CB mummies. In a few instances, I moved those colonies to some other location with more sun and less dampness, and the CB symptoms disappeared. I know that about 15 years ago while working on AFB, Martha Gilliam suggested that OLD wax (continuously used for brood) might "house" pathogens related to AFB, CB, and Nosema. Speaking for myself, I think that future investigation of HYGIENIC bees and their home environment will uncover some long sought after information. As with many other things, "the squeaking wheel gets the grease," and our always existing fund shortage, I don't expect any direct research on CB, but the research related to HYGIENIC bees might uncover a lot. Dr. Marla Spivak of the University of Minnesota might be the lead person in this work. This is not much, but I hope I have helped. Happy New Year! George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 06:39:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Queens as a defense against disease (was CHALKBROOD) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" David Eyre wrote: > I couldn't, and still don't understand what the genetics of the > queen has to do with a spore disease. That's a bit like suggesting > the re-queening of a hive suffering with foul brood, a waste of time. It's really quite simple and being borne out more and more in current research into hygenic strains of bees. The more hygenic, the more likely are the bees to remove infected brood and the less likely is the disease (chalkbrood and AFB in this case) to reach a problematic level. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 07:31:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Dance Language In-Reply-To: <200001040500.AAA23689@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Re: Dance Language The dance language of the honeybee is recognized by the majority of researchers as the main system of the honeybee for communication of the location of nectar sources as well as potential new nesting sites. In addition, it has been observed in all species of honeybee, not just apis mellifera. In species that nest in the dark (A. mellifera, a. cerana) , there is a sound or vibration component, while those nesting in the open (a. florea, a. dorsata) seem to lack this component. This seems to point out an evolutionary lineage from open nesting to overwintering colonies. As many have mentioned, there is an odor component to the communication process, just as body language plays a part in human vocal communication. But very few people dismiss the central dance language. Whether or not the language hypothesis has benefited the commercial beekeeper has never been an issue. People like Tom Seeley and others are studying the inner workings of the honeybee nest to further the limits of our knowledge of the life of the bee, not to help people make more money or to discredit the work of others. Peter Borst Apiary Technician Dyce Honeybee Lab Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853 Peter Borst plb6@cornell.edu http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/plb6/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 21:37:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: "Tales of the Hive" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrian Wenner wrote: > > Mark Michel wrote (on BEE-L, in part): > > >North American persons will be able to view a PBS television program " Tales > >of the Hive", this coming Tuesday. > >Everyone else can enjoy their web site http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bees/ > >I hope the program is as interesting as the web site. > > May I insert a bit of reality. As beekeepers and others watch the > program, they might well consider a few relevant facts provided earlier on > this network: > > _____________snip _________________________________________________________ > Adrian > > Adrian M. Wenner After having read and seeing trailers regarding this show and catching errors of philosophical bent I decided I will watch the show and record it if only for what I expect will be interesting if not downright astounding photography. I also expect to have to answer in detail questions from friends and family as the photography will lend an air of authority and I'm sure I will have to refute theoretical details it presented as fact. Thom Bradley Thom's Honeybees Chesapeake, VA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:06:16 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Subject: Re: "Tales of the Hive" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrian Wenner wrote: > > Mark Michel wrote (on BEE-L, in part): > > > May I insert a bit of reality. As beekeepers and others watch the > program, they might well consider a few relevant facts provided earlier on > this network: > > 2) Apparently no one has been able to repeat James Gould's experiments and > obtain his results (a requisite before one should accept such results); > > 4) Much evidence has accumulated that sharply conflicts with the original > 1946 Karl von Frisch interpretation (Wenner, A.M. and P.H. Wells 1990, Kak, > S.C. 1991, Vadas, R.L. Jr. 1994; > > 5) A 1937 von Frisch interpretation about odor search behavior has more > validity than the highly touted language notion (Wenner, A.M. with K. von > Frisch 1993). > > Adrian > Hello Adrian and all, The Bee language interpretation in 1937 was about as good as it could be at that time. Now we have had over a half a century to observe more and ask a lot of questions. With the human mind , we can only understand the need for communication for direction, because that is what we need.Looking at the vertex angle of the figure eight dance, fills our minds with something we think we understand. It has to be more complex and a few other factors must come to play. Science gives us more questions with every answer.Why magnetite in there bodies? We jump on that one very fast. That gives the bees the ability to feel the magnetic force fields of the earth.There ability to smell pheromones in the air in parts per billion , is another wonderful tool that they have to work with. I doubt very much that the bees use only one tool to communicate to there sisters , the location of a nectar source.Like just about everything else , we like to believe something simple and call it the answer. The dance is great, I like to watch it myself and wonder.The bees are deeper than we can go, but it is a lot of fun to observe them in there place on this earth.Nova will have some people appreciating how much the bees are in balance with nature.Maybe we will get a few more beekeepers, because of the show. God knows, we need more to help keep the eco-system in balance. I hope the program has many parts to stimulate the human imagination. Some may not be facts (real truths) Best Regards Roy Nettlebeck Tahuya River Apiaries but it may not be too far out in left field. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 08:32:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Swintosky, Michael D." Subject: Re: Chalkbrood Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" David Eyre wrote: Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anonymous Ok Subject: Re: bee clubs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Green Vally Beekeepers at Owensboro KY meets the first monday of the month at the county extention office. All is welcome ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 20:08:09 -0800 Reply-To: "Mark C. Michel" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Mark C. Michel" Subject: Re: "Tales of the Hive" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Wenner" To: Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 3:14 PM Subject: "Tales of the Hive" > May I insert a bit of reality. Interesting intro to your...observations. Your opposition to the aforementioned bee research is, at best interesting. With regard to statements as, "the bee language hypothesis has provided no practical benefit to beekeepers;" Such myopic views would be laughable if not such a sad commentary on the lack of historical perspective with regard to scientific analysis. I recall my dear friend who worked on the Manhattan project ( Dr. Keaton Keller) spoke of nuclear theory. He had himself lived through at least three theory of subatomic structure. He maintained the need for analytical insight tempered with a historical perspective. I have not received any DIRECT benefit from the bee language studies. But in the same breath, I have received no DIRECT benefit from my Chemistry studies, Physics or all of the French verb conjugation I struggled with in school. Each and every source of information must be taken in it own merits as well as an overall context. Just as current quantum physics now seems to cross with philosophy in that our "reality" is based solely on our perspective and just what we are looking for (not at). Adrian, insert your "reality" for it may be real for you but not for those of us who strive to be a member of the apis literati. M. Chris Michel Michel Family Apiaries Volunt, Faciunt, Fluremuse (they fly, they make, WE prosper) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 09:59:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Re: "Tales of the Hive" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm not qualified to comment on the various theories about bee, but can confidently point out that we are all surrounded by folks who are totally ignorant and scared to death of bees. For my horses I can call a veterinarian, but for my bees I cannot. We are of a special group, alone in its willingness to do anything but exterminate insects. Regardless of the conformity of the material presented in the program to one or another academic theory, let us suspend theoretical differences and work together to welcome and encourage all reasonable help in enlisting the interest and support of the public for our bees. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:55:01 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Chalkbrood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Swintosky, Michael D. wrote: > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the mechanism behind re-queening > isn't so much the genetics (though that could be a factor) as it is the > break in the brood cycle. I understand that this allows the bees the > opportunity to clean up the brood comb prior to more eggs being laid. Actually, when I requeen a colony of bees, I hope not to have a break in the brood cycle. If you requeen with a "laying" queen or a nuc, where is the break in the cycle? I have been battling chalkbrood for years now. I locate my apiaries in good spots where possible. Full sun, good air and water drainage, and some wind protection. Yet even in "perfect locations", I find colonies rotten with chalk. On the other side of the coin, I also find colonies that won't get chalky even if they are standing in water,when all those around it do. How could this not be a genetic trait? I've tried requeening for chalk. That didn't really work either, that is until I used hygienic bees last summer. For example - I got a severely chalky colony ready to requeen. I made a queenless nuc out of the top chamber, and placed it above the parent on a nuc board. A hygienic queen was installed the next day. Three weeks later when it was time to kill the old queen, and reunite the two, The nuc was very weak, and there was a pile of chalkbrood mummies on the nuc board a half inch deep. The two were not united. One month later, I checked again. The nuc was thriving. I could not find a chalkbrood mummy anywhere in the nuc(the parent colony was still rotten with it). Although there were no mummies, there were many empty cells within the brood (is this resistance?) where I believe a pupae had been dragged out and disposed of. I united the two, and they went into winter in good shape, although I didn't check the brood again. I believe I was told that about 10% of nonselected colonies are hygienic. If so, a colony could be requeened many times with nonselected hygienic queens, and no control would occur. Anyone whe doesn't believe that there can be genetic resistance to a spore forming disease should do a little test like this. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:56:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Bee Dances In-Reply-To: <200001040500.AAA23689@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed For more info on bee dances, see: Kirchner, et al. "The silent dances of the Himalayan honeybee" in: Apidologie, #27, pp. 329-330 (1996) quote: "Dance communication is found not only in A mellifera but in all species of honeybee studied so far. We observed the dances, determined the flight range and recorded and analyzed sounds emitted by worker bees." Tom Seeley "The Wisdom of the Hive" Harvard University Press (1995) quote: "Bees following the dance learn the distance to the (flower) patch, the direction it lies in, and the odor of the flowers, and can translate this information into a flight to the specified patch." Peter Borst Apiary Technician Dyce Honeybee Lab Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853 plb6@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:07:26 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rex Boys Subject: BEESOUNDS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings and thanks to everyone who responded to my New Year's Eve = posting on this site. One correspondent thinks I am pessimistic about the frequency of queen = piping so I'd better explain how I came to the conclusion. Firstly, it was my personal experience. With an average 8 hives over 20 = years, I heard it only 3 times all told. That works out at once every 7 = years so if I'd only had 2 hives it would have been 4 x 7 =3D once every = 28 years. Secondly, whenever I talk to an audience of beekeepers, I take a show of = hands of how many have actually heard queen piping, live, in their own = apiary and the usual response is 50%. Then I ask how many reckon to = hear it at least once every year and about 5 or 6 hands go up. The next = enquiry discovers that these all have more than 20 hives. So, if you = need 20 hives to hear it every year, with only 2 hives you could wait 10 = years. Taking this figure of 10 years and my experience figure of 28 years, the = average is about 20. QED. Queen piping is the sound made when one queen detects the proximity of = another. Hence it only occurs around swarming time; for a given colony, = this might be a few days every 2 years which is why you are lucky to = catch it. Eddie Woods recognised three types of piping and could distinguish = between that of the old queen, that of an emerged virgin and that of a = virgin still in the cell. Since the swarm has usually gone before any = virgin has emerged, you do not hear the old queen very often. Eddie = heard it because the departure of the swarm had been delayed by bad = weather. In 1949 he did a talk on BBC Radio when he broadcast the sound = of 'murder in the beehive' when an old queen exchanged piping with an = unemerged virgin, then tore open the cell and stung her to death. UK = beekeepers can borrow a tape of this and others of Eddie's broadcast = talks from BBKA. In my previous posting I explained that the note of a bee sound is = controlled by the wing motor. A worker bee in flight produces a sound = near middle B (250Hz). Queen piping is higher because the queen does = not flap her wings in the normal way but sideways across her back, like = a pair of scissors. This raises the resonant frequency. The virgin in = the cell only has stumps to vibrate and this produces a higher note = still. Don't you wish you had paid more attention in your physics = lessons at school? By the way, I forgot to mention that the book published by Northern Bee = Books is called 'Listen to the Bees' and it is in their series called = 'Beekeeping in a Nutshell'. In the UK it costs =A31.60 incl postage but = I have no idea what they charge overseas customers. Best Wishes. Rex Boys. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:14:02 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Genetic disease resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with Lloyd Spear, and others, that disease resistance is likely to be present in some colonies but at the same time, and without promoting the D.E. Hive, would say that ventilation also assists in controlling one of them - Chalk Brood. Well at least that is my reckoning in the UK. I might jest about the dampness of our climate but my experience is that given a site without a free flow of air together with a standard solid floor board will lead to mouldy outer combs and generally severe chalk brood infestation. As for the thought of adding wood shavings, like I read some Americans do, as an insulating material above the cluster that would only add to the problem, quickly becoming like going to bed with a wet mop on my head. I am also amazed that many beekeepers go to great lengths to supply top ventilation by placing matchsticks under the crown (cover) board. Instead they should (at least in the UK) be taking those boards away during the winter, only replacing them when brood rearing again starts in earnest - maybe late January in this area. So my colonies that have mesh floors also have a crown board, but only having half the number required of mesh floors the remainder currently have nothing under a waterproof (important) and secure roof. Like many things beekeeping, you eventually practice a system which meets your requirements, and which your bees appear to appreciate. Ken Hoare Shropshire UK ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:04:09 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: A new smoker fuel ???? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Before the beekeeping season in the UK commences may I promote a new smoker fuel, no not liquid smoke or anything like that, they call it 'Beekeepers Leather Gauntlets'. Many of the recent contributions to this list have revolved around bee diseases, many of which are spread by spores or funguses. For thirty or more years I have been concerned that the leather type gloves that beekeepers wear are a porous material, and can easily absorb many of these. I would hate to witness a surgeon yanking out my appendix knowing that he had worn leather gloves at the previous appendectomy. Sometimes hot - yes, you get stung through rubber gloves - you do in leather ones (I am told). Having worn rubber surgeons gloves, obviously very thin, I have been surprised at the infrequency of stings, does the rubber prevent the passage of a 'Fear Pheromone' from our skins? All leather gloves should be burnt (don't even use the smoker) and rubber kitchen ones substituted. These together with a 'tool' that I rarely observe beekeepers using - a bucket of water - should be the tools for 2000 and onwards. The bucket of water is a wonderful aid to avoid spreading bee diseases and adding a good spoonful of washing soda crystals, or any farmyard sterilant in the correct proportions, can only assist its effectiveness. A colony worked, hive tool thrown into the bucket and rubber covered hands rinsed in retrieving it. Maybe any nectar which has trickled from a comb to run down the outside of a brood box can be wiped off, not only is this likely to reduce spreading disease but also the robbing which will be the carrier of that disease. Propolis is also less liable to stick to wet rubber fingers. Before moving on to the next apiary the bellows of the smoker are washed over (do the firebox as well and it quickly cools the hot metal to avoid setting the car alight). I know that water alone will not kill AFB or EFB spores, but there must be a reduction in carrying the spores to the next colony if the gloves are clean of sticky honey. But Nosema spores are killed by water (and sunlight, and acetic acid fumes). Even using an uncapping fork to lift drone brood from their cells to determine varroa mites, so much better to throw the fork into the bucket before using it on the next colony. And even on the occasions when I have no need to wear gloves, to be able to rinse clean the sticky hands prior to grabbing hold of the steering wheel, makes for a more enjoyable ride home. All basically called "hive and apiary hygiene" and my methods can be practiced by the 1 - 50,000 colony beekeeper. I would be interested if others can add their own methods of achieving hygiene. [And I once nearly set a barley field alight having emptied the smoker, a lot of stamping and sprinkling water from the bucket, and the supply held in the car, and I felt confident to safely leave the apiary.] Ken Hoare who in 30+ years has NEVER owned a leather pair of beekeeping gloves - and the rubber ones are also waterproof in our damp climate. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 14:19:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: A new smoker fuel ???? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > But Nosema spores are killed by water (and sunlight, and acetic acid > fumes). Don't have my books, working from memory, going out on a limb. Nosema is a paramecium, does not produce spores and thrives in water. Aaron Morris - thinking I'll be corrected if I'm wrong. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 15:17:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Queen rearing course MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I asked for the following information for my personal consideration, and thought others may be interested: SUCCESSFUL QUEEN REARING SHORT COURSE University of Minnesota July 21-23, 2000 Why not rear your own queens? The University of Minnesota Queen Rearing short course teaches one method of rearing queens that works consistently for both hobby and commercial beekeepers. Topics covered include queen and drone biology, timing of queen rearing in northern climates, stock selection, setting up mating yards, and record keeping. Everyone will have a chance to try their hand at grafting larvae and raising their own queens. A unique feature of the course is the section on queen rearing equipment designs that will allow you to build your own! The cost for the 2 1/2 day course is $75 which includes a 80 page manual, lunch, and refreshments. Those attending the course may purchase a professional video demonstrating the queen rearing techniques at a discount price of $30. The course is taught by Dr. Marla Spivak and Mr. Gary S. Reuter on the St. Paul campus of the University of Minnesota. For further information and registration brochures, please call, write, e-mail or visit our web site. (612) 624-3636 Department of Entomology 1980 Fowell Ave. Room 219 University of Minnesota St. Paul, MN 55108-6125 e-mail: spiva001@tc.umn.edu e-mail: reute001@tc.umn.edu Web site: www.entomology.umn.edu/ Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 22:47:02 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Re: A new smoker fuel ???? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Ken, Have you tried wearing rubber gloves day in and day out in temperatures of 30°C+. You finish up with either athelete's hand and or digits that would pass for a prime pair of prunes!! Point taken about A.F.B.etc. but life's not perfect, anyway rinse the gloves once every week in bleach, it gets rid of the sweat, propolis etc.If A.F.B.is suspected then it is either to late for the hive or the gloves can be dealt with if the number of cells contaminated are few. Best wishes Peter. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:04:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "WM. ARNOLD JONES" Subject: pasture chart MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is there a bee pasture chart that indicates the approximate production = of honey from the various trees and sq. acreage of the better grasses? = I have several fruit trees mature apple and pear. and would like to = know about how many stands to plan for at this site? =20 thank-you arnold jones ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 01:18:22 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Re: A new smoker fuel ???? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wrote > > But Nosema spores are killed by water (and sunlight, and acetic acid > > fumes). > Aaron replied > Don't have my books, working from memory, going out on a limb. Nosema is a > paramecium, does not produce spores and thrives in water. > Sorry Aaron, not being a scientist I admit to not knowing what a paramecium is and too early in the morning to start searching for the answer, please inform me. But Bulletin 100 Diseases of Bees published by the (UK) Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food states, and I quote; "The length of time for which the spores can retain their ability to germinate depends upon the conditions to which they are exposed following their deposition with the excreta of infected bees. They remain viable for many months in dried spots of excreta on brood combs, for example, but lose their viability within a few days when suspended in water and exposed to direct sunlight. The spores are readily killed by heat and by suitable fumigants." The causative organism of Nosema is most certainly a spore and affects the mid-gut of the bee, queens and all. It is a parasite (is that a paramecium) which causes Amoeba and affects the Malpighian tubules, which without grabbing my books I believe are equivalent to the kidneys of the human. The sunlight method of treatment I have always discarded knowing that diseased combs would need to be left easily assessable to robbing bees, a sure way of spreading infection. Heat is obviously impractical but together with sunlight it proves that spores will be killed in the solar extractor. Yes I may be wrong regarding water, it was not until I checked my literature that I was reminded, "but lose their viability within a few days when suspended in water", but it also states dried spots. If a bee freshly excretes over my rubber gloves this would easily be flushed away in the bucket. So those spores are still in the bucket, I agree, and will not be dead for sometime afterwards, I now agree, but very few things are perfect in beekeeping. At least every effort should be taken to avoid the spreading of diseases and that is what I am promoting. On the same subject Peter Dillion commented on "athlete's hand and or digits that would pass for a prime pair of prunes" with temperatures at 30+. I agree with him and obviously have very little experience of continuously working in those temperatures, but have worn rubber gloves for long periods in the UK. Yes the hands do look as if I have laid in the bathtub for four hours, but effects partially relieved by wearing cotton liners under the rubber gloves. Ken Hoare - with the amount of water (rain) in Shropshire there should be no Nosema. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 22:17:40 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Re: "Tales of the Hive" In-Reply-To: <200001041506.KAA02671@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >We are all surrounded by folks who are totally >ignorant and scared to death of bees. >let us suspend theoretical differences and work together to >welcome and encourage all reasonable help in enlisting the interest and >support of the public for our bees. Bill's right. I watched the show this evening, and was entranced. The photography is nothing short of amazing; once I pen this I'm off to the pbs web site to see how they did it. There were some errors of fact and maybe even more of emphasis. Even a neophyte like myself found myself explaining a couple of inaccuracies to my spouse. On the other hand, the show was a very positive, very engaging, elementary treatment of the lifecycle of the honeybee for a very general audience. I don't think it claimed to be anything else, and, at that level, it succeeded quite well. Who knows, perhap someone introduced to the wonderful world of bees by this very program will go on deepening their knowledge to the point that they can read von Fritsch - and Wenner - and make up their own mind. I don't recall anything in that 4th grade level Signature biography of Thomas Jefferson about Ms. Sally Heming, but I don't think my ability, 30-odd years later, to understand her significance was damaged by my somewhat sanitized intro to that red-headed fiddler from Virginia. Greg ______________________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Happy Hank's Honey House ghankins@ac.net Mt. Gilead, North Carolina ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 22:45:03 -0500 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: BEESOUNDS In-Reply-To: <200001041810.NAA09276@listserv.albany.edu> On 4 Jan 00, at 18:07, Rex Boys wrote: > Queen piping is the sound made when one queen detects the proximity of = > another. Hence it only occurs around swarming time; for a given colony, = > this might be a few days every 2 years which is why you are lucky to = > catch it. I have been fortunate to hear this quite frequently. We keep our queen cages in very close proximity just before shipping and we hear them piping almost every time we harvest queens. You're right, close proximity seems to be the trigger, when we seperate them by about 5-6 feet it stops. We have tried isolating the 'piper' but it is impossible, as you get close and disturb them the piping stops. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 5 Edith Drive, R R # 2. Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H2. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, e-mail http://www.beeworks.com **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 08:45:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Large Observation hives and Clustering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by efuhr@FSJ.NET to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. ----------------- Original message (ID=215D7924) (86 lines) ---------------- To All interested in Observation Hives: About 15 or 20 years ago I built three glass hives and made it like looking at a book. Three pages and you can open them up and look at both sides. The centre one is three combs thick and the outer hives one comb thick. I made them 2 combs wide and 6 combs deep. Single combs deep is important because everyone wants to see the queen, and I always mark her so she is easy to see. On the hive that is three combs wide you can't generally see the queen as she usually stays in the centre combs. This was the Worlds Largest Glass bee hive at the time and maybe still is but I have seen one in Quebec several years ago that was larger but made different. I have my Glass Hive in our show room up here at mile 42 on the Alaska Highway,its called "the Honey Place", be sure to come in and see it when you make a trip to Alaska. These observation hives are the best educaters to the beekeeping industry you can get. We have over 100 people a day in the summer time and sell plenty of honey, pollen, beeswax, honeystix and lots of bee related products. The bees never make it over the long winter here in the glass hives as they are to active all winter with no brood rearing, so they just dwindle away. If you make them too strong in the Spring they will swarm by summer, and they don't seem to be able to requeen themselves. Seeing them swarm in a glass hive is got to be one of the most interesting part of nature that I have seen. I have been at this business, commercialy for over 50 years and I always learn something new. Bees will always cluster when the temp gets below 56 F as they are cold blooded and it is the only way they can survive. If you watch your glass hive you will notice this, plus if you look close you can see the odd varroa mite. You can never see very many here because we are starting with a new colony each year. We have people come in and sit down and watch the bees for quite some time, claims it relaxes them, Try it yourself . Ernie Fuhr Mile 42 Alaska Highway Fort St John B.C. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 05:49:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Busterb Subject: Bee venom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone know how to extract bee venom? I heard of a gent out mid = west that collected bees from homes ect. free of charge, then extracted = the venom and sold it to some medical institution for a very large = profit. What bees are used, and does anyone out there have any addresses = or phone #'s where I can get more info. Thanks in advance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 07:44:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Rubber Gloves for bee work In-Reply-To: <200001050500.AAA29830@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Rubber Gloves for bee work I started using rubber gloves when working bees only when the handling of pesticides (apistan, etc,) necessitated it. At first I found them to be uncomfortable- sticky, hot, smelly, etc. Then I accidentally purchased a whole package (12 pairs) of extra large gloves and found out that I could wear these all day without discomfort. By the way, if you find gloves annoying you might like this tip: when removing the apistan strips you can avoid rubber gloves by using a pair of pliers to pull the used strips and throw them in a bucket for disposal. Still, wash up after handling any pesticides; use and dispose according to the label! PB ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 08:03:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: A new smoker fuel ???? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems the intent is to prevent the spread of disease by insuring the next hive inspected has clean equipmwnt and clothes touching it. If you use something like a bucket of water which you wash in after every inspection, unless you have a good, strong disinfectant and leave gloves, hive tools, whatever in it for the necessary time to properly disinfect them, you are defeating what you want to do. Because the water will be the repository of whatever you deposit there from the last hive inspected and be put on the next hive with your wet gloves. I was taught to shove my hive tool in the dirt after every hive was inspected. And if you are going to another apiary, put it in the smoker. My guess is that air and sunlight will do a better job keeping disease to a minimum on gloves than wetting them in a common pool and possibly preserving and spreading the organisms. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 08:04:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Nosema (was: A new smoker fuel ????) Comments: cc: "dbs8@psu.edu" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Ken wrote: >> But Nosema spores are killed by water (and sunlight, and acetic acid >> fumes). > I replied > ... going out on a limb. Nosema is a > paramecium, does not produce spores and thrives in water. Ken responded, but I won't quote that part. On my part, the limb snapped. Nosema is NOT a paramecium (which my faulty memory says is a single celled organism with a whip like tail used for propulsion), Nosema is a protozoa (plural protozoan). I always get my parameciums and protozoan mixed up. Nosema is a protozan, I am a paramecium (or at least feel that lowly after having belched misinformation). >From _The_Hive_and_the_Honey_Bee_, Dadant Press, '92 edition, pg 1098-99, "The vegetative stage of Nosema apis is not infective (Bailey, 1955b; Goetz et al.). Spores must be swallowed by a honey bee for infection to be initiated. It has been shown that relatively few spores are required to infect workers or drones (Bailey, 1955b, 1972a, 1972b; Kellner and Jacobs, 1978). Spores germinate quickly after entering the ventriculus, and the epithelial cells of the ventriculus are infected when the vegetative stage is introduced by way of the polar filament ... In 6-10 days the host epithelial cell becomes filled with new spores ... Spores that are voided by infected honey bees remain viable for long periods. They resist refrigeration, freezing, lypophilization and exposure to microwaves." No mention is made of water making spores nonviable, although I agree with Ken that a hygenic beekeeper minimizes risk of transfering problems amongst hives. Treatment of infected equipment includes fumigation with acetic acid (80% concentration) or thermal sterilization, "120 dF (49 dC) for 24 hours destroys or renders spores nonviable." Warning is given that decontaminated equipment + infected bees = contaminated equipment + infected bees. No mention is made of irradiation, which surprizingly is also missing in the discussion of AFB. I have read results of studies of irradiation as treatment for AFB, I do not recall ever reading anything about irradiation in regards to nosema. Perhaps George Imirie can add something here. Fumagillin (Fumidil-B) is the only medication mentioned for treatment of infected bees. Two gallons of thick (2:1) medicated syrup in the fall "markedly suppresses nosema infection the following spring". I have attended lectures where Dianna Sammataro recommended an additional gallon of thin medicated syrup in the spring. I was taken to task when I confessed a few weeks back that I follow these recommended treatments, but I didn't lose any sleep over it. Again quoting _THatHB_, "It is very important that the volume of medicated syrup contains the effective dose of fumagillin when fed for prevention and repression of nosema disease. A study in Georgia has demonstrated that reducing the recommended dose of fumagillan results in inconsistent and ineffective repression of disease." It is often hard to get bees to consume a full two gallons of medicated syrup in the fall, a gallon in spring is rarely a problem. I know of some fall feeding practioners who double the fumagillan and halve the syrup (one gallon of syrup, twice the Fumadil-B) and I have heard stories of pouring the syrup over the bees to force them to consume it. My practice is to feed a half gallon at a time, refill when empty, shoot for two gallons. If a hive does not make it to the two gallon target, I make note of it and watch that hive more closely in the spring (if I am being diligent with my record keeping, and I confess I sometimes slack in that area). It occurs to me that I am administering twice the Fumadil-B in the fall as I am in the spring and I wonder what are the consequences. Is the effective half in the spring as it is in the fall? There has been a lot of discussion about this (I know Allen is thinking, "Check the archives"). If you do check the archives, I'm sure there is discussion of the high cost of Fumidil and sugar and time and labor to treat. The costs are offset by increased honey production. So goes the discussion, I do not know of experiments to quote and the final financial evaluation hinges on current price of honey. In today's market I speculate there are a lot less dollars being spent on Fumadil-B and a lot more cases of nosema going untreated. Aaron Morris - thinking I should read before I leap! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 08:46:43 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: CHALKBROOD In-Reply-To: <200001041338.IAA00112@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <200001041338.IAA00112@listserv.albany.edu>, GImasterBK@AOL.COM writes >Chalk brood is a fungus, and hence, not considered life threatening to bees >resulting >in little active scientific research. Chalk brood is a funny thing which, in our experience is not the result of any single factor. We have noted it occur frequently in many colonies in spring when perhaps they are struggling a bit to kept the rapidly expanding brood nest warm enough, yet six weeks later in the same colony, with no change of queen, no relocation, no new combs, it is gone. Only differences are that the weather is warmer and the colony stronger. Occasionally we get a colony (probably 1 out of 1700 every other year) which is some kind of genetic runt whereby it is not able to prosper because of chalk brood. The combs can almost rattle with it. In that case we just kill the queen and unite to a healthy neighbouring colony which soon tidies it up. > I found that hives that had OLDER COMB, enjoyed the coolness of >wooded >shade and lack of direct sun, and close to water that might have elevated the >humidity (dampness) were those most likely to exhibit CB mummies. I would agree with all these factors except the old comb bit. We have OFTEN noticed the worst chalk brood cycle being the first one on newly drawn foundation, after which it gets tidied up and is fine. Most times the new comb is fine but it is surprising how often chalk brood goes for the first cycle only to fade away thereafter. We see no great correlation between older combs and chalk brood. >I don't expect any direct research on CB, but the research related >to >HYGIENIC bees might uncover a lot. Genetic factors will have a large part to play in this, whether it is hygienic behaviour or some other resistance mechanism. For example, any bees we have had off the New World Carniolan have shown chalk brood only rarely and I am certain this is not hygienic behaviour that is responsible for this. Reason? No, or very few gap cells in the brood. The 2" square test on an area of similar age brood shows few, and occasionally zero, gaps. So there have not been the infected larvae there to begin with. Other strains in the same apiaries can have significant amounts of chalk brood and/or gaps (which could be CB or sex allele related) present. I would also disagree with whoever said that it is not an important disease. It is definitely economically damaging, as raising that brood which dies is an expenditure of energy and a loss of a percentage of your foraging force two or three weeks later, a loss which is continuous throughout the period chalk brood is active, and over a period can add up to a measureable loss of crop. 'Clean' colonies noticeably out perform, and accelerate away from, 'infected' ones. Thus I would suggest that chalk problems are related to a number of factors, which are detrimental to the bees ability to deal with the underlying cause, fungal attack. Genetic factors are very important, but mild chilling, dampness, and colony strength are also definite contributory issues. Finally, we have noticed for many years (long before varroa predation) a particular tendency for chalk brood to attack areas of drone brood at certain times of the year. We see worker brood on the same comb clean or at least nearly so, and the drone a horrid mess with almost every cell turned chalk. We cannot see any other factor at work here apart from the longer development period of drone brood giving the fungus more time to act at the critical point in the larval stage. If this is so we could have another genetic factor at work not yet touch on, that some bees exhibiting resistance have a relatively short infection window due to variations (possibly only slight, but significant to the fungus) in the duration of critical stages of brood development. >Happy New Year! And to you too George! Murray -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:13:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Bee candy as an indicator? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks to the many who have given the recipes in the archives. We do want to make some candy. We're considering using a small amount of candy to indicate the bees' hunger by a quick sighting of the tops of the frames to see if any has been consumed. If candy is eaten we could then provide better feed. Has anyone any experience that might guide us in this use of bee candy? Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:04:53 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Bee candy as an indicator? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/5/00 6:55:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, morharn@KYND.NET writes: << Thanks to the many who have given the recipes in the archives. We do want to make some candy. We're considering using a small amount of candy to indicate the bees' hunger by a quick sighting of the tops of the frames to see if any has been consumed. If candy is eaten we could then provide better feed. Has anyone any experience that might guide us in this use of bee candy? >> You might want to check out surplus/salvage dealers. I don't know if any is still around, or if there are any new supplies, but beekeepers fed tons of hard candy, that were recycled from government fallout shelters, a few years back. The bees loved it. Our local candy manufacturer sells scrap candy real cheap, but they don't separate chocolate, which I understand is toxic to bees, so I don't get this. Still, it might be worth a check with your local manufacturers. Dave The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:19:48 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Pollination on Mars? Really! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you think we're storying, check out the pollination news at the *rebuilt* Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com< /A> This serious story was posted on a French beekeeping website. How can you tell if your garden pollination is inadequate? How can you fix the problem, if it is? This is a page designed first of all for crop growers and gardeners, to help them manage pollination. But it also should interest beekeepers, and anyone else interested in pollination. In the past I have resisted using links to beekeeping sources, unless they dealt specificially with pollination. Now we have a page of beekeeper resources that will link to (A FEW) good beekeeping pages. At the risk of offending some (because there is not going to be room for all), I invite you to submit links for consideration. Still be thinking in terms of pollination, such as the new beekeeper who needs help after buying bees to pollinate his or her garden. Is your site going to help this kind of beekeeper, who often hasn't a clue in the beekeeping area? Does your site have any unique resources? If your link is outside North America, you'll get a preference advantage, because we are lacking here. Dave, AKA Pollinator, AKA "The Pumpkin Patch Pimp" Pollinator@aol.com The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinato r.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:27:17 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Doin' Crop Pollination? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A worldwide list of beekeepers who do crop pollination service is a major feature of The Pollination Home Page. If you do this, you will want to bee listed...and you can bee...absolutely free of charge...simply by emailing me with the data. Please be as complete as you can: name of business, your name, e-mail and snail mail address, phone, number of hives available, what crops you will do, and areas you will go to. You may also wish to give a link to your web site. If you are already listed, check your listing to see if it needs an update. This list will be made available to fruit/veggie growers on the internet, and to a limited extent, by snail mail. We are going into the next generation of the internet. Farmers have been slow in coming online, but are rapidly catching up. Don't be left behind... Dave Green Pollinator@aol.com The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator .com Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/poll inator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/Sw eetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 08:02:08 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carmenie Subject: Re: Bee venom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello there, Here is a web page address you might be interested in. www.direct.ca/beevenom/ Its probably has what you are looking for; I didn't check everything out on it. Hope it helps. Busterb wrote: > Does anyone know how to extract bee venom? What bees are used, and does anyone out > there have any addresses = > or phone #'s where I can get more info. > Thanks in advance > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:02:46 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: christopher.slade@ZBEE.COM Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: Queens as a defense against disease (was CHALKBROOD) CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 850 MSGID: 240:244/186 81744162 REPLY: 240:44/0 84f32204 PID: FDAPX/w 1.13 UnReg(48) My understanding was that the researches of Professor Heath indicated that there are no surfaces in a typical beehive free of chalkbrood spores. It is unlikely therefore that hygienic behavior would prevent it. What may happen, however, is that hygienic bees may detect and remove afflicted larvae sooner. This would waste marginally less brood food if this occurs before feeding is complete and free the cells for re-laying sooner. It would have the effect of disguising the amount of brood lost as the beekeeper would be more likely to see unbroken slabs of brood than in an unhygienic hive even thouth the brood loss may be the same. This is not to deny that hygienic behavior should be encouraged for numerous other reasons. Chris Slade --- * Origin: Beenet Point (240:244/186) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 00:24:18 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: christopher.slade@ZBEE.COM Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: A new smoker fuel ???? CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 850 MSGID: 240:244/186 81805b30 REPLY: 240:44/0 ee084485 PID: FDAPX/w 1.13 UnReg(48) I must confess to once having owned a pair of leather beekeeping gauntlets. They made me very clumsy and I stirred the bees up unnecessarily. I cut off the thumbs and first 2 fingers and this greatly increased my sensitivity and enjoyment and reduced aggression problems. I had very few stings on the exposed digits. The gauntlets fell apart eventually and they have been discarded. I now have a pair of rubber gauntlets which I use for "rough & ready" operations when full armour is needed but I don't like them at all and prefer to use bare hands when appropriate. Last season I discovered household rubber gloves. The bees can sting through them but usually do not. I have reasonable sensitivity but prefer to take them off when I don't need them. They are sweaty. Most of my apiaries are near water and I have frequently dowsed my hands/ gloves/ hive tool between hives to avoid carrying the scent of one hive into another, particularly if I have been stung. It had not occurred to me that I was being hygienic. Perhaps Ken would be kind enough to let us know roughly the proportion of washing soda to water that will be an effective disinfectant without removing the skin from the fingers. Chris Slade --- * Origin: Beenet Point (240:244/186) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:34:22 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: christopher.slade@ZBEE.COM Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: "Tales of the Hive" CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 850 MSGID: 240:244/186 8174b7e3 REPLY: 240:44/0 c0aa2a8c PID: FDAPX/w 1.13 UnReg(48) I have been observing but not participating in the discussion on the dance etc but I was struck by Roy Nettlebeck's remark that on the need to encourage beekeeping to restore natural balance. I believe that Roy is writing from the USA where the honeybee is an introduced species. If his objective is really to RESTORE natural balance then logic dictates that the honeybee should be exterminated in the USA. It is not only an alien species itself but it facilitates and perpetuates the existence of many other alien species which compete with native species, eg, oranges, almonds and alfalfa among others. In the US the honeybee is an unnatural introduction and thrives in a largely artificial environment and a lot of people earn their bread and honey thereby. Chris Slade (writing from the UK where the Honeybee belongs) --- * Origin: Beenet Point (240:244/186) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:29:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Bee Dances Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Quote: "The obvious features of honeybee communication have been reportedly widely and now are a familiar story. When a foraging bee finds a source of food, it flies back to the hive and conveys to its fellows the distance and direction of the source. In the course of doing so it performs a waggling "dance" in which it traces a figure eight. The orientation and rate of the dance, it has been supposed, tells the location of the food source. This hypothesis runs into an awkward difficulty: the interior of most hives is dark so the bees probably cannot see the dance. Investigators of this phenomenon have found, however, that the bees follow the dance by means of their antennae, which touch the dancer's body. ... Perhaps the honeybee communicated with its fellows not only by the dance movement but also by sound signals! To test this possibility I made tape recordings of the sounds made by dancing bees... A careful analysis showed that the average length of the sound trains during a given dance was directly proportional to the distance the bee had traveled to the food source. The correlation was so good that it seems altogether likely - certainly as likely as any other proposed mechanism - that the bee reports the distance by means of this sound language." Adrian Wenner. Scientific American. April 1964 submitted by Peter Borst Apiary Technician Dyce Honeybee Lab Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853 plb6@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:12:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: Bee candy as an indicator? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit William Morong wrote: > We're considering using a small amount of candy to indicate the bees' hunger > by a quick sighting of the tops of the frames to see if any has been > consumed. If candy is eaten we could then provide better feed. Has anyone > any experience that might guide us in this use of > bee candy? If the inner cover is on top of a hive body with stored honey, the cluster of bees will flow up through the center hole in the inner cover if they are running out of stored food. A ring of granulated sugar, poured onto the inner cover around the center opening, is an easier way to provide a quick meal for the bees if the cluster does move up. And if part of the cluster is up on the inner cover, the bees need to be fed. This diagnostic method will not work if the inner cover has no center opening. And it will not work if the inner cover is on top of a hive body of empty combs which is on top of the hive body of combs that held food. The bees will move up into the empty combs and starve unseen. Hives should be heavy when hefted from the back side. Put one hand on top of the hive to steady it, and lift at one of the rear handholds. If the hive tilts, it probably needs to be fed. Having more than one colony of bees lets the beekeeper compare colonies. When in doubt, feed the bees. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA 40.0 N 75.5 W ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:13:33 -0800 Reply-To: "Mark C. Michel" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Mark C. Michel" Subject: Re: "Tales of the Hive" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: To: oranges, almonds and alfalfa among others. > In the US the honeybee is an unnatural introduction and thrives in a largely > artificial environment and a lot of people earn their bread and honey thereby. > Chris Slade (writing from the UK where the Honeybee belongs) > --- > SORRY Chris, Clearly the Honeybe DOES NOT belong in the UK. Your indiginous bee is extinct. So here is to all of us who enjoy the company of aliens. M. Chris Michel Michel Family Apiaries ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:47:35 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Cherubini Subject: Re: Bee Dances MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If I remember correctly, in some of his papers and in his book "Anatomy of a Controvery", Adrian Wenner acknowledges initially supporting the concept of a honey bee "language" hypothesis in the early 1960's. Then a little later evidence began accumulating that brought this hypothesis into question. Similarly, as a monarch butterfly specialist, early on I was caught up in the romantic idea that monarchs displayed miraculous pinpoint navigational capabilities. But then there was Adrian Wenner who stated all along that it appeared to him the butterflies were flying in various directions in the fall and essentially contracting their range rather than purposely flying to some specific goal (i.e. overwintering sites in California and Mexico) Alot of us monarch butterfly researchers didn't like to think the butterflies were not as proficient navigators as some migratory birds and thought Adrian was off the mark. Now, years later, evidence is accumulating that in the fall monarchs are indeed flying in a wide range of westerly, southerly and easterly directions and while a large portion of them are ending up at overwintering sites in Mexico and California, another substantial portion ends up widely dispersed as free flying individuals unassociated with any overwintering site from the Bahamas and West Indies westward to the Pacific coast. In hindsight, I am glad that there was someone like Adrian around to bring us out of the clouds and down to the reality of what insects really do, rather than what we wish them to do. He helped motivate us to do the necessary definitive experiments. Paul Cherubini, Placerville, California ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:01:24 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: Queens as a defense against disease (was CHALKBROOD) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us >>> 01/04/00 05:02PM >>> wrote: My understanding was that the researches of Professor Heath indicated that there are no surfaces in a typical beehive free of chalkbrood spores. It is unlikely therefore that hygienic behavior would prevent it. What may happen, however, is that hygienic bees may detect and remove afflicted larvae sooner. This would waste marginally less brood food if this occurs before feeding is complete and free the cells for re-laying sooner. It would have the effect of disguising the amount of brood lost as the beekeeper would be more likely to see unbroken slabs of brood than in an unhygienic hive even thouth the brood loss may be the same. Hi Chris, Dr Spivak's research as well as others has shown that hygienic bees remove infected larvae and pupa before they are infectious i.e. before the disease organism has matured to the point of being able to infect other larvae. If this is true the amount of disease spores in a hygienic colony will decrease instead of increasing over time. It surly follows than that the number of larvae actually infected will also decrease not increase. The improved brood pattern is not just the result of quick removal but higher survival rates of the larvae which will of course lead to higher adult bee population and better honey production. blane St Paul, MN USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:51:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Re: Bee candy as an indicator? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Tim, Thanks for the information. We have some different problems here in Maine. I'm loathe to heft my hives in cold weather because they're thoroughly frozen to their stands, and I hate to disturb the bees with the snap of breaking the bottom board loose with a wrecking bar. We have no inner cover with a hole in winter, but a box with a screen bottom filled with shavings. We will however feed the little gluttons all they will eat. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:21:14 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Joyce S.Russell" Subject: chalkbrood Comments: To: BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have any experience using bleach(ie. chlorox) mixed into syrup for the suppression of chalkbrood? I've heard of 3 gallons of bleach per load of syrup(48,000 lbs.) being effective. What about mineral salts (ie. cattle supplements) mixed in with a foulbrood dusting? As always, Bill Russell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:54:25 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: "Inside the Animal Mind" Comments: cc: cole888@earthlink.net, jbarthell@ucok.edu, ponerine@dakotacom.net, greenber@WSUHUB.UC.TWSU.EDU, HPSST-L@POST.QUEENSU.CA, SOCINSCT@listserv.albany.edu, Dadant@dadant.com, KenFrazier@compuserve.com, cherubini@MINDSPRING.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear subscribers: Much light and some heat resulted from my earlier posting about "Tales of the Hive." Once the dust settles, I will respond to selected items in that regard. In the meantime, PBS has announced a new series, "Inside the Animal Mind," starting tonight and continuing with two other episodes in the next couple of weeks. Why should beekeepers and bee researchers be concerned about flagrant use of teleology (insisting on purpose for each behavior) and anthropomorphism (imposing human traits on animal subjects) in animal behavior studies? First of all, it prevents objectivity among those who wish to study the animal scientifically. Consider, for example, the following quotation taken from the "Inside the Animal Mind" series (attributed to a British scientist, Rob Picard): ********* "I'm quite sure when a honeybee is sitting on a comb at the end of the long day, she's running through pictures in her mind of the flowers that she's visited, of the places that she's seen and of the weather conditions she has flown through. ...If she wasn't doing that, how would she build up this wonderful geographic perception of her whole environment?" ********* Surely beekeepers can recognize what such an attitude might lead to. Among other potential concerns, the possibility exists that the public might become too emotionally involved in how beekeepers treat their "subjects." Already, I have read of animal right extremists who have insisted that honey bees should not be kept in prisons (i.e., hives) and that no one should be allowed to take their hard earned honey and wax from them. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ******************************************************************************* * * "...it is lamentable how each man draws his own different conclusions * from the very same fact" * * Charles Darwin, in a letter to Alfred Russel Wallace on 1 May 1857 * ******************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:29:47 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: CHALKBROOD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to everybody who responded to my query on chalkbrood. I think the answer is: No, there hasn't been any further research in recent years. I shall try out some of the ideas and report progress if there is any. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:33:20 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeemanNick@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Queen rearing course MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I took this course last summer and am waiting to try it. Also along with this is a Master beekeeping workshop put on by Marion Ellis (Nebraska) I have taken both and found them very nicely done. There is a limit on the amount of people they take also (queen around 20) Master about 75 or so. Lunch is provided (at least when I went) So if you can Make it, it is awsome! There is plenty of time for Questions and you can stay after and chat or at lunch. Nick 16 years old with 20 hives of bees ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:27:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Bee Dances MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It seems to me that there is a basic need for some type of communication within a hive to direct foragers to the target. While the honey bee is very dependent on chemical signals it would be difficult to rely on air bourn scent as the only means to locate a nectar source. It would seem to me that a moderate breeze would make it very difficult for the forager to find and follow the correct scent trail. I compare this to what I remember of dogs used to track people in that they need the "ground scent" to follow but can use an air bourn scent once they get close. I think it is a bit of a stretch to call the dance a language. But there is also no reason to think that this is not a means of communication. There is also no reason to believe that it is the exclusive method foragers use to attract other bees to a nectar source. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:28:12 -0500 Reply-To: Al Needham Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: "The State Of Science" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let's face it, our alleged knowledge of science is still down at a pretty low plane. Think what people will muse about when they look back to us and what we think we know, fifty years from now, or perhaps even less. Think of how many alleged scientific "facts" have been utterly demolished within our lifetimes since they were initially discovered. There "ain't" as much difference between ourselves and our caveman ancestors as we would be led to believe. So I would not too carried away with questionable remarks here. Al Needham Scituate, MA.,USA Visit " The BeeHive " Learn About Honey Bees And Beekeeping http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine