From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 10:28:45 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06259 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:28:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01946 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:31:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141531.KAA01946@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:31:38 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0001E" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 80063 Lines: 1705 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:40:54 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Computers v. apidictor. In-Reply-To: <200001282215.RAA01886@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 28 Jan 2000, Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: > Biggest obstacle is finding good, flexible, cheap sound analysis software, > but that was 5 years ago. Some years ago I was involved in some sound and vibration analysis. We took recordings of the sound and digitalized them. We then applied a Fourier transform to change the graph of sound intensity versus time to a graph of intensity versus frequency. The analysis was done with a very slow Apple II computer, but the results would give a nice pictorial representation of what the Apidictor does by analog methods. I believe the software was published as a Basic program and was free. Any competent programmer could duplicate this program for a modern PC. It would run at least a thousand times as fast and would give a frequency analysis almost in real time. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:51:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Wax moth egg parasites Does anybody known how to locate wax moth eggs? Are they visible to the naked eye? I'm interested in setting up a test to observe whether a common moth egg parasite sold as a beneficial insect (Trichogramma sp.), which is reputed to attack the eggs of more than 200 pests, will parasitize wax moth eggs. Any recommendations on setting up a test would be welcome. John ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 07:53:22 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Susan Jordan Subject: Re: allergic reactions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>Which leads me to a question I already know the answer to- if it works so well and is so cheap and abundant, why is it not being used in this country to treat burns and other wounds?<< Well Bill, actually it is used in other countries for treatment. Last September, Dr. Peter Molan was asked to send some honey to a hospital in Britain because they had a teenage boy with some serious wounds. Every time they had to change his dressings, they had to give him a general anesthetic. In regards to your wounds that have healed, honey also works amazingly on c-sections. I think that mainly people are reluctant to try it because honey is sticky, and because they think "how can HONEY heal my wound". Everyone, try honey, it works. Susan Jordan Ontario, Canada ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:31:01 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joe Hemmens Subject: Re: Computers v. apidictor. In-Reply-To: <200001290243.VAA09645@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 29 Jan 00, at 3:00, olda.vancata@quicknet.se wrote: > > Biggest obstacle is finding good, flexible, cheap sound analysis > > software, but that was 5 years ago. May be common as dirt today. > > Remember, you may need something a bit different than the software > > packages used to edit music. > > Cheap software is useless for this purpose. Software doing what is > needed (FFT) costed 2 years ago around 800$ and I don't belive you can > get it cheaper today. Still - checking swarm tendencies takes with a > apparatus dedicated for this purpose 15-30 seconds. Switching on and > off included. It does not exist software available designed for this > purpose, so the computer is NOT telling you directly what is going on > in the beehive. You need to analyse what is on the screen and you need > to know what must be analysed. Which means - to analyse sound from the > beehive take minutes. For a specialist. Have a look at - http://www.daqarta.com/scrndx.htm I would be very interested to know what you think it can't do. It's a shareware program... Daqarta is SHAREWARE. Unregistered copies may be freely distributed as long as no fees are charged beyond a reasonable and customary copying fee, not to exceed US $10. It will run very well on a scrap 80286 PC - can't think how to put a value on an 80286 these days - maybe 15Ukp or 20US$. Joe Hemmens ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:26:09 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rex Boys Subject: Computer versus Apidictor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Five people responded to my last posting so this message is addressed primarily to them; they are Tim Eisele, William Morong, Jerry Bromenshenk, Olda Vancata and Donald Aitken. You must all have realised by now that as a geriatric I am instinctively against computers and prejudiced in favour of a replacement for the apidictor which was designed by my friend and colleague, Eddie Woods. You can therefore depend on me to put forward every possible objection to your plans and I hope this will lead you to avoid any unforseen pitfalls. Let me take you by the hand on a visit to your apiary in the middle of the swarming season. The first question is to ask, "Is it raining?". Decide whether it is safe to open your laptop out of doors. Next, "Is the sun going to shine on the screen so I cannot see the display?" If the answers are OK, place the laptop on the hive roof, plug in the microphone, switch on and press whatever keys have to be pressed. (If you wear gloves, have a dress rehearsal now, before you bother to design anything) Presumably what you hope to see on the screen is a spectrum analysis of amplitude against frequency. Measure the amplitude over the frequency band 225-285Hz. Does it peak above the surrounding frequencies? If there is a sharp spike at 250Hz, that is flight noise. On the apidictor this got in the way and measurements were supposed to be made in the evening. If it does not confuse you, this is a bonus because you will be able to operate during the day. Look at that part of the spectrum above 3,000 Hz and thump the hive. You will see a burst of signal. If it starts and finishes very suddenly and lasts about half a second. no swarm is planned so you can pick up the laptop, bee box, hive tool and smoker and move on to the next hive.. If the hiss is more 'rounded' and drawn out, put the laptop to one side, open up the hive, look for queen cells and take your normal swarm control action. The 1964 apidictor was about a quarter of the size of today's laptop computer. Using active filters and an audio chip, today's equivalent could be built into the microphone or headphone lead. Plenty of people are already designing them for their own use but sooner or later, something will emerge on the commercial market. Something that is designed for a specific purpose usually does its job better than something that is adapted from another application. Without seeing an actual screen display I cannot really judge but, certainly as far as the loyalty hiss is concerned, I would prefer to use my ears rather than my eyes for judging its characteristics. (Nobody is really sure but I think the warble is actually the aggregate noise from hundreds of bees, each producing its own individual frequency between 225 and 285Hz.) If I think of anything else relevant, I'll post it; meanwhile, Have fun! Rex. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:58:03 MST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: A BEE-L Moderator Subject: Bits & Pieces Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed BEE-L Moderators normally reject posts that contain a lot of quotes or have serious formatting problems. We don't normally notify the writer, but even if the post is returned to sender, the writer often does not re-submit -- for whatever reasons. Nonetheless, we hate to see any interesting post lost if it contains thoughts not present in other posts, so we're going to try cutting the good info from posts that don't make the grade and present the pieces in a weekly digest. Do you see your posts in here? The probable reason is that you quoted previous posts far more that permitted. Never quote more that you would be willing to type in by hand for clarity. If in doubt, don't quote, just write your own thoughts. As always, opinions are not facts. Use with caution. ---- If you posted and haven't seen your post come up on BEE-L, visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l/ to check out the BEE-L rules. ---- From: "JOSEPH F. ROSSMAN" Subject: Re: Screen bottom boards > > Sooner or later some bee supply dealer will make screen bottom boards >similar to those described, and will sell a great number WE ARE AS WE SPEAK INTRODUCING THIS BOTTOM BOARD THIS YEAR. OUR CATALOG WILL BE OUT IN THE NEAR FUTURE. FRED ROSSMAN ROSSMAN APIARIES ---- From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: pollen collection and Corn pollen I am going to assume that corn was not included in the study by McGregor because corn is entirely pollinated by wind. As for the others I can not say. This does not mean that insects do not eat the pollen, only that it does not require insects to make viable seed. Honeybees do feed on corn pollen. This has been a bone of contention in the past. Pesticide spraying is done without regard to foraging insects because the corn does not require insects-therefore they must not be there. Regarding Bt corn and honeybees. There are very unsubstantiated stories of honeybee kills, however I have also heard the Bt engineered into the corn is not the kind that will affect bees. This will require response from those with different training than myself. ------ From: glbarbor@juno.com Subject: Re: Corn Pollen BT is not BT. There are many sub-spicies of BT used for various larvae and where CERTAN (used for control of wax moth) was not harmful to honey bee larvae, other forms of BT may be. DIPEL is another form used by gargeners for Col plant caterpillers. The collection of pollen from corn (or any source) is for use in feeding larvae in the hive, so I would be very careful until I had contacted the developer of the genetically engineered BT corn for test results. Incidentally, CERTAN was still available in Canada as of last year. Jerry ---- From: Ron Law Subject: Re: allergic reactions A great deal of Peter Molan's work can be found at www.beekeeping.co.nz New Zealand Unique Manuka Honey has an 'X' factor that gives it antibacterial activity over and above ordinary honey. Check it out. Ron Law ---- From: Ron Law Subject: Re: allergic reactions Because it's not a registered medicine, doesn't come in tubes, and there are no honey producers sending Dr computers for their clinic, sending them to conferences all around the world, and besides -- it is illegal to tell people; to do otherwise would be making a therapeutic claim and you'd have the FDA down on you like a tonne of hot bricks. At a major burns hospital in New Zealand they started using honey in a burns unit. Healing time was 50% of the best medicine and scarring was considerably less. Not surprisingly, the researcher had to take 'stress leave' and the research was never completed nor published. Ron Law ----- BEFORE YOU POST TO BEE-L: See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of BEE-L discussions. Go to http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l/ for the rules, background and Archives - plus more. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:50:02 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Computer versus Apidictor In-Reply-To: <200001291601.LAA01960@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 29 Jan 2000, Rex Boys wrote: ... You must all have realised by now that as a geriatric I am instinctively against computers and prejudiced in favour of a replacement for the apidictor which was designed by my friend and colleague, Eddie Woods... Hi Rex: I am not that keen on them myself. A practical tool for working beekeepers would undoubtably be a small, cheap, rugged instrument like the apidictor. The spectrum analyser is more a research tool to find out more about the sounds made by hives and their interpretation. It is quite possible that bees make sounds above the range of human hearing; these could be discovered with a spectrum analysis and then, if significant, incorporated in a simple handheld device. I don't believe that a device whose only purpose is swarm prediction is really very useful. I don't worry too much about swarms; my problems are more getting good apiary sites, getting good help for harvesting and extracting and getting good queens in early spring. I suppose that I soon will be concerned with Varroa too. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:19:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Computers v. apidictor. In-Reply-To: <200001291503.KAA00860@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Have a look at - http://www.daqarta.com/scrndx.htm I was looking through the download sites last night and found some promising material using the key 'audio analysis'. Don't know what they can do and if something could be built using one of them as a base. Something that occurs to me is that most of us think in terms of the human sound spectrum, effectively from about 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz (max). Acoustical vibrations actually go right up into RF frequencies. I am not sure if there is an upper limit -- I'm sure there must be. I do recall reading about a small superheterodyne device that would take the band from 20K to 40K and transform it down to human range. That was 40 years ago, I would reckon. It was a home project and used a mic for input and earphones for output. The unit was the size of a pocket transistor radio. It claimed to put a whole new perspective on things like bird calls and insect sounds. Things that were normally inaudible due to being above human pitch became audible after transformation. An apparently silent countryside would suddenly become very noisy when donning the headphones. That insects and birds make supersonic 'sounds' stands to reason, since the vibrating parts of insects are very small and would be suited to higher frequencies, rather than lower. I think therefore, that it would be wise to consider a spectrum far wider than normal human hearing for analysis. allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:27:52 -0000 Reply-To: John Burgess Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Burgess Subject: Re: allergic reactions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >As far as > pollen goes, when you consume it, your immune system gets used to it, and > eventually, your immune system takes no action against pollen during hay > season. Just a thought - if "hay fever" is an allergic reaction to pollen from grasses, and honey can develop an immunity as a result of its pollen content, then there must be a significant amount of grass pollen in honey. Is this so? John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru, The Welsh Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:25:07 -0500 Reply-To: beesbest@mediaone.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kathy Organization: Red Maple Farm Subject: Re: pollen collection/McGregor's book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron, The book "Plants for Beekeeping in Canada and the northern USA..." by Jane Ramsay contains many more plant species and cultivars, as well as more specific information about each (sugar concentration in nectar, protein content of pollen) than McGregor's book, despite that it only deals with plants in the north. One could conclude that McGregor only dealt with the plants that were of interest to him, or simply that his book deals with nectar/pollen plants in a superficial way (like most plant books - not just nectar/pollen books), and that he only wrote about the obvious &/or well known food sources. Truth is, the only nectar/pollen book I've found to be accurate and (mostly) all inclusive ('course I live in the north) is the Ramsay book and it's out of print, not likely to be re-printed. I hope you get a chance one day to get a copy. Kathy Aaron Morris wrote: > my question was about plants not included in McGregor. > Specifically, > > Can I assume if (plants) didn't make > > McGregor's book the plants aren't of interest to honeybees or should I > > assume the plants weren't of interest to McGregor? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:07:55 -0700 Reply-To: flightdeck1@earthlink.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Ideas for mite managment and relocated feral hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, glad to see some faces re-appear (Garth). Anyone whom has followed my posts in the past knows I've been spending summers pulling out feral hives from anywhere & everywhere. My success is evidenced by some 50-55 hives borne from the walls, ceilings and rooftops all over southern Colorado. For those whom think the feral hive population has all but disappeared, let me assure them their drone population IS confounded by feral drones (reference Bill Truesdell post regarding expectation of nearly sterile environment for bee breeding "More On Urban Legends" - Nov'99). If you don't believe me, place your name on every local fire/police/pesticide outfit as bee removal service this coming spring. If we're to believe ALL feral hives are repopulated by commercially managed hives, the number of calls you get in proportion to the number and location of commercial/hobbyist beehives simply doesn't add up. Two(3?) years ago, most of the hives I pulled were mostly on the verge of breakdown. Last summer, more often than not, the feral hives outpaced normal buildup (we had a good spring). One hive gave up 24 pounds of bees (weighed) on a 2 day removal. The next day, the remainder of the hive was removed (1/2?). Another nearby (next street over) was nearly as productive and an obvious one-year-old swarm from the parent. Why are these hives so healthy on their own (not the minority)? What I've seen from the hives of 'bee-havers' is that mites completely demoralize the hive bringing on all kinds of disease in their wake. This is consistent to most of the feral hives removed two(3?) years ago. Only one of 30(40?) removed last year was clearly demoralized by mites. My question is, what should I be doing in the best interests of our bee gene pool with these relocated feral hives? If I were to hold back mite treatment, I could easily pick resistant hives - but would incur 80-100% losses. Without requeening, these hives are vastly inferior in temperament and honey production (for the most part, though a few outstanding hives!) in comparison to the other 50 commercially selected queened hives in my apiary. Other choices are selective requeening based on production/temperment criteria for normal commercial beekeeping - without regard to 'saving bee strains'. One last option is queen rearing (feral or commercially selected eggs?) and allow the drone population to 'confound' the mating which is a total 'hit or miss' strategy. What to do? Other ideas for managment? The alternative is to stand back and watch feral populations die off from intentional pesticide/natural selection. If we all take a back seat to surviving feral strains by choosing to requeen with ONLY commercially available queens, then perhaps we condemn ourselves to great short-term management and a bleak long-term 'inbred' gene pool. Matthew Westall // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Mar 1984 09:51:18 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Healing power of honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Firstly, I have changed the subject heading as I doubt anyone would looking in the archives for the subjects being discussed under "allergic reactions". In Australia there is now honey registered under the Therapeutic Goods Act to be used topically. It is sold commercially as Medihoney. I believe it is the first honey registered in the world for this purpose. Have a look at the following website and click on medihoney www.capilano.com.au Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:54:02 -0700 Reply-To: flightdeck1@earthlink.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Prepared for anaphylactic shock? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a thought to those beekeepers out there that haven't seen how quickly anaphylactic shock can come over us, I have an experience to share: My dad decided to help last November ('99) in a late removal of Apistan from the remaining half of my beehives. The bees were sore since the temperature was 60'ish and repeatedly stung me through two layers of clothing. The bees were 'zeroing in' on the smell of sweat since I was doing all the lifting - rather than my dad whom was removing the strips. That is, until he happened to catch his face mask on a tree and resulted in a quick sting to his chin. It wasn't even 2 or 3 minutes later when he walked away rather slowly and complained that his hands were 'tingly'. He decided to lay down for a minute, which I took for a clue to get him into the truck in case he was going into shock. He only had 10 or 15 feet to go and passed out right before I could help him into the passenger seat. He revived before I had time to read the directions for the 'best' use of my Epipen. Looking back I should have taken him directly to a hospital regardless of his refusals "I'm fine, I'm OK". Later that night he broke into a rash, itching and fatigue but completely recovered the following day. By his example, we may only have 4 or 5 minutes to get to our Epipen, and most of those minutes you're not thinking with clarity. Most of us are by ourselves when working beehives, out in the middle of nowhere. Keep your Epipen close. Know how to administer the shot (where to, what direction) and most of all, know when to find that shot. Storage - His doctor recommended keeping the Epipen stored inside a thermos, insulated against extreme heat/cold, extending the life of the shot. Now that we know he has a reaction, he supposedly has to carry that pen around with him for the rest of his life (outdoors anyway). The weird thing was, he's been stung by wasps/yellow jackets before without incident. Earlier in the the summer, he was stung on his finger when visiting my apiary - with average swelling reaction. Any other thought/suggestion/advice on this topic? Matthew Westall // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:44:08 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rex Boys Subject: Re: Computers v. apidictor. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick asks if there is an upper limit to the accoustic spectrum. Last week I interviewed a man who had spent his life doing sonar research. Using piezo transducers he used frequencies up to 2Mhz for detecting fish! I repeat 2 megahertz. In some of his work he used scale models. In a 6 foot long tank he used a stickleback as a model for a cod! My suggested definition for sound is, 'pressure waves that are detectable by the human ear'. One might add, 'or that of a sheepdog'. Beyond this it becomes ultrasonics Rex Boys ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:32:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Epipen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matthew shared with us his father's allergic reaction and the beneficial results of an Epipen. I long ago stopped having any reaction (other than hurt) from bee stings. Even on those sad and few occasions when I get more than 10 stings in a single area. Nonetheless, my wife worried about my spending so much time alone at reasonably remote bee yards, and hassled me about keeping an Epipen in the truck...just in case. During a regular checkup, I asked my physician for a prescription for one. He was aghast at the suggestion, and refused. He knows full well I am a beekeeper and don't suffer allergic reactions. He explained that Epipens are grossly overused and are especially not considered appropriate treatment: * for anyone over 45 * for anyone with heart disease (I have had a heart attack) While I don't recall his exact words, the contraindication has something to do with the Epipen increasing strain on the heart. Anyone able to shed more light on whether caution should be exercised in using Epipens? Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:43:41 -0500 Reply-To: dublgully@fuse.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Judy and Dave Subject: Re: Epipen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd Spear wrote: > Anyone able to shed more > light on whether caution should be exercised in using Epipens? When Dave and I first decided to keep bees, I also asked my doc about the Epipen. I told him neither Dave nor myself had ever had an allergic reaction but that we were concerned about visitors or other family that may come in contact with the bees. The doctor was surprised but happy that we were thinking ahead and planning well. He wrote a prescription for 3 Epipens. He was very precise in his instruction. He said MOST, if not all, people will claim to be allergic to bee stings. When, in fact, very few are. Most people have 'skin reactions' for which the Epipen is not used. His instructions to the letter were: Never use the Epipen until you can see that the person can't breathe. He went on to say that some people have panic attacks but will not have the trouble of getting air into their lungs. He emphasized that you should actually witness the breathing problem. He said the Epi works quick enough that you still have time to use it. Take the time to watch the victim while you get the Epi ready. He further stated that the Epi is contraindicated for a person with heart problems. However, if they can't breathe the Epi is the lesser of 2 worries. And get them to a hospital. Judy in Kentucky, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:11:27 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ron Law Subject: EpiPen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Several people have discussed EpiPen and Lloyd has asked about cautions needed to be taken with its use. There is a brilliant website at www.rxlist.com that enables you to get details about any pharmaceutical drug. This is what it says about EpiPen. Just remember that one person dies from every 40,000 prescriptions. Adrenaline is a very powerful drug. There are a lot of contraindications, though if you suffer from anaphylaxis then the risks of using it are less than the anaphylaxis. Perhaps another drug couild be used to illustrate the risks of taking drugs unnecessarily. Many doctors recommend taking low dose aspirin to reduce th erisk of heart disease without out realising that for people who do not have heart disease are put at risk of dying from bleeding. In the USA 46 people die every day from Aspirin. If you don't need EpiPen don't use it -- it's for emergency use only. Ron Law (I have been an avid reader of medical literature for thirty years and lectured in Clinical Biochemistry for ten.) http://www.rxlist.com/scripts/patient/piumore.pl?mononum=329&order=2&type=&item= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:16:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Graham Law Subject: One or Two Queen Cells? This musing was authored by a beekeeper friend (Dave Cushman) who is not yet fully up to speed with the Net and wished me to post it on his behalf. Any replies may be sent to myself. Cheers Graham Dave wrote:- Two Queen cells? When queen cells are raised under supersedure impulse, they vary in number between 2 & 6. (I have never seen less than 2 or more than 6 in over 20 years and about 300 cases). Two is the most common...I guess about 60% of cases. The average is somewhere between 2 & 3. Two would seem to be significant to the bees for this purpose. Possible Benefits:- A, 2 could be a hedge against faulty development in either Q cell. B, 2 Virgins could have the same or different fathers. C, 2 gives the opportunity to choose one or the other by some criteria that may be important to the bees. D, It is possible that the option to swarm with one of the emerging Virgins is kept 'in the back of the mind' by the bees. I do not think this is the intention of the bees as swarming only happens in less than 5% of cases and it is more probable that the case was not supersedure but was in fact swarming impulse. The error being that of recognition by the beekeeper. E, Other reasons as yet unthought of. Questions:- If C, is valid then what characteristics do the bees favour? Do the bees value the same qualities as the beekeeper? Are the bees consciously maintaining or bettering their own breeding or adaption to local circumstances? Comments:- If a mating nuc is given one Q cell then it will accept it as the only available option. If it turns out to be substandard or deficient in some way the bees will supersede it in an attempt to correct the deficiency. If we give 2 Queen cells to every mating nuc then the bees would have the same choice that they usually have in nature. Choosing between Queens:- Possible Mechanisms:- Assuming that both cells and occupants are close in age and development. 1, The first queen to emerge damages the other cell purely on a chance basis. 2, One Virgin is retained in it's cell by the bees whilst the other one emerges and then damages the entrapped one. 3, Both Virgins emerge, seek each other and fight with no intervention by the bees. 4, Both Virgins emerge and are kept separate by the bees while they assess the relative 'quality' of the Virgins. The deselected Virgin is then harassed and killed by the bees. 5, Other mechanisms. Conclusions:- If items 1 or 3 are correct then selection is random. If 2 or 4 is right we can assume that the bees recognise some superiority in one of the Virgins. Proposal:- That all Queen rearing and mating systems be changed to include 2 Queen cells per mating nuc. Positive and Negative:- Negative:- The use of 2 cells obviously requires twice as many queen cells to be available as was the case before. The generation of early extra queen cells requires additional pollen and honey resources and adequate nursing labour at a time in the queen rearing calendar when such resources are scarce. It is possible that some swarms would issue with a 'spare' full quality virgin. The smallness and lack of crowding in the nuc would be against this but as mating nucs are necessarily an artificial system the possibility cannot be ignored. I have only ever had swarming from a mating nuc when testing mated queens for brood rearing ability. These swarming nucs consisted of 10 or 11 half width, full depth frames in half width National brood boxes. I have not yet tried the 2 cell idea myself but I intend to do so quite thoroughly over the next 3 years. Positive:- If bees are able to make 'quality control judgements' then the average quality of commercially/artificially reared queens would rise. The rate of 'BEE IMPROVEMENT' would speed up as I believe that the bees would make better choices than the beekeepers. There would be fewer 'poor quality' queens and less disturbance to developing colonies that would otherwise have been superseding such a poor quality queen. The provision of extra queen cells would not be difficult, particularly in high summer. When I use the Jenter or Nicot cell plug cages I rarely use more than a third of the available larvae. A few extra cell starting and cell raising colonies would be a small price to pay for 'better bees'. I feel that the possible benefits outweigh any unsatisfactory features by quite a large margin. I also intend to try raising pairs of Q cells within the mating nucs themselves using special frames with small reservoirs of pollen (freshly trapped from full size colonies) and other small reservoirs of 50/50 honey & water + 0.1% copper gluconate. I do not know if the bees prefer cells they have raised themselves but I suspect they may. Dave Cushman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:47:55 -0800 Reply-To: "Susan L. Nielsen" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Susan L. Nielsen" Subject: Re: Computers v. apidictor. In-Reply-To: <200001290245.VAA09671@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 29 Jan 2000 olda.vancata@quicknet.se wrote: > Cheap software is useless for this purpose. If I understand the object of this analysis correctly, there is really no need for complex software. What we are looking for are certain diagnostic frequencies in the spectrum of bee sounds. The tough stuff should be only the initial identification of the frequencies that indicate certain kinds of activity. That apparently has been done, but can be repeated with instruments as basic as oscilloscopes. From that point, all that is needed is a filter that will become active only in the presence of the identified frequency -- or at most, a set of filters responding to the several distinctive frequencies. It was about 25 years ago that I was involved with a project intended to recognize certain features of human speech. We used a "desktop" computer which occupied a 6-foot long table. It read perforated paper tape, and had all of 4K of memory on board. There was an array of sound filters activated by distinct ranges of frequency. The software consisted of simple "if yes, then x; if no, then y" statements. It was no big deal. Susan -- Susan Nielsen | Beehive: If you build it, snielsen@orednet.org | they will comb. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:34:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: DNBrown Subject: Sound Analysis Software Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I sometimes play with sound analysis software. I have placed a freeware version on my FTP site and will keep it open for a while. It will take a .wav file and produce an FFT sonogram in color or greyscale. Time is the X axis, frequency is the Y axis, and intensity is color. At the top of the chart there is an intensity-time plot. It takes some practice to interpret, but if you are looking for pulsed sound at say 250 Hz, it will be visible. The difference between human voices or even two birdcalls is easy to see. You will still need to collect the sound with a microphone and sound card. A preamp and combination of high pass/low pass filters will be a big help, to cut everything below 150 Hz and above 4000 Hz (to get a cleaner signal), but if you do that, you might as well make something similar to the Apidictor box. The circuits to make a dedicated audio preamp/filter/headphone driver similar to the Apidictor should cost less than $40 USD considering that good op amps cost less than $1 USD. I have not designed one but Markham's "Electronic Circuits Manual" has suitable bandpass circuits that can be kludged up. The whole thing would probably fit in a band-aid box and run off a 9V battery. The sonogram freeware is on my FTP site at ftp://ftp.ma.ultranet.com/pub0/d/dnbrown/public_html/ It's called gram.exe. It runs on Windows 3.11, I don't know about other operating systems. If you access the FTP from a browser it will rename the .exe file as .htm, that's OK, just rename it after you save it to disk. Turtle Systems makes pretty good audio analysis tools. I don't know how much they cost, I bought mine at a yard sale for a few dollars. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:30:08 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Subject: Re: Computer versus Apidictor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA wrote: > The spectrum analyser is more a research tool to find out more about the > sounds made by hives and their interpretation. It is quite possible that > bees make sounds above the range of human hearing; these could be > discovered with a spectrum analysis and then, if significant, incorporated > in a simple handheld device. > > I don't believe that a device whose only purpose is swarm prediction is > really very useful. I don't worry too much about swarms; > Hello Donald, I agree that just swarm prediction is not a useful tool by itself. Over the last 30+ years I have learned a few things about bee activity before they swarm.I'm not 100% but I'm over 90% on picking out hives that have swarm cells in them , before I pull frames. I believe that we do have a lot to learn from the sounds that a hive makes. I have been following this thread for some time now.It is useful to put some sound maps and bee behaviour together, so we can learn more about there internal communication. Thanks to some of the people that have added info on sound recording to this list.It has been helpful in building up my new computer , so I can start to look at hive sounds on my own.I have some very good help , when it comes to sound engineering. We will see if we can get sound and a certain behaviour to replicate. Then it may be worth the time it will take on this endeavour. If it does not work, I will have a great computer for graphics. Up to 2 gig of ram and 32 device slots. Time will tell. Best Regards Roy Nettlebeck Tahuya River Apiaries Tahuya Wa. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:16:21 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Prepared for anaphylactic shock? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 1/30/00 2:02:52 AM, flightdeck1@EARTHLINK.NET writes: <<...The weird thing was, he's been stung by wasps/yellow jackets without incident. Earlier in the the summer, he was stung ... with average swelling reaction.>> Wasps/yellow jackets have a completely different kind of venom. I had a reaction to being stung by a yellowjacket this summer nearly as disturbing as the one experienced by your father. Rash, hives, swelling, dizziness (indicates dropping blood pressure). I decided to go in for desensitization shots. I post what follows because I think it might be valuable for some to understand what happens when one undergoes desensitization treatment: The allergist screens for sensitivities to stinging insect venom to obtain a medical diagnosis of an allergy. They test here in Eastern Mass. for honey bee, wasp, yellow jacket, white-faced wasp and yellow wasp. The methodology is that they give you shots just underneath the skin of the arm at progressively increased amounts of venom and then check for a reaction (redness with a hive). The amount of venom is very low, maybe one percent of a real sting. Surprisingly, I reacted to honey bee and yellow jacket venom — even though I was stung upwards of 2 dozen times last year by honey bees, sometimes multiple times. I always have a local reaction, but nothing that would signal the onset of shock. This indicates to me that the test results are not reliable. My postive reactions to the shots (some redness and itchiness that disappeared before the next round of shots) were mild I was told, not strong enough to show a great danger of anaphylactic shock. The doctor said he was recommending I undergoe the shots for yellow jacket venom more on the basis of my description of the event last summer. He also recommended I get the treatment for the honey bee too, just to be safe. The shots are weekly for 15 weeks and take you up to a dosage equivalent to 2 insect stings. Therafter a maintenance shot must be taken every 6 weeks. The allergist's caveat was that no one, not even me with my shots, is completely safe from anaphylactic shock. He said he had treated beekeepers who had keep bees for decades who had suddenly had a severe reaction. The hardest thing about the shots is that you have to go in each week, get the shot and sit for half an hour so they can watch you for an unexpected reaction. Makes the work day even longer. What a buzz hassle, but it's worth it. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:42:12 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Susan L. Nielsen" Subject: Re: Epipen In-Reply-To: <200001301818.NAA26030@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 30 Jan 2000, Lloyd Spear wrote: > While I don't recall his exact words, the contraindication has something to > do with the Epipen increasing strain on the heart. Anyone able to shed more > light on whether caution should be exercised in using Epipens? Epinephrine is, among other things, a cardiac stimulant. More broadly stated, it stimulates autonomic nerve action. Susan -- Susan Nielsen | Beehive: If you build it, snielsen@orednet.org | they will comb. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:08:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Wajih Daour Subject: fresh baking yeast and fresh brewers yeast please urgently inform if i can use fresh wet baking yeast by mixing with suger and boil to feed my bees. can i use fresh brewers yeast from beer factory to feed as substitute. thanks wajih daour ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:59:09 -0800 Reply-To: r@citybees.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert MacKimmie Subject: Re: Epipen Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach_patches v148.2) Regarding Epipens --- Lloyd Spear asks: "Anyone able to shed more light on whether caution should be exercised in using Epipens?" A beekeeper pal with good reactions and an Epipen equivalent in his vehicle was able to save someone's life only because he was prepared to provide the injection. Often it is not ourselves that we will likely save, but the unsuspecting pedestrian upon whom we force the increased chance of a beesting. As Tom Chester conveyed to me, "Watching someone slowly choke to death isn't a pleasant experience." He didn't have the full experience, but got close. Be cautios, but be prepared to save a life. robert@citybees.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:27:32 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ron Law Subject: Re: Prepared for anaphylactic shock? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Mitchell wrote: > Surprisingly, I reacted to honey bee and yellow jacket venom — > even though I was stung upwards of 2 dozen times last year by honey bees, > sometimes multiple times. I always have a local reaction, but nothing that > would signal the onset of shock. This indicates to me that the test results > are not reliable. > Skin prick tests are simply a test for what is called an IGE response to an allergen. IG = immunoglobulin; E is a subclass of IG, there are also several others like IGA, IGD, IGM An allergen is an allergic stimuli. Whilst anaphylactic reactions are IGE mediated, very very few people with an IGE reaction ever suffer from anaphylaxis. In New Zealand about 40% of the population have an abnormal IGE response to something. Over a recent two year period 141 (out of a population of 3.825 million) were admitted to hospital with anaphylaxis mostly to common foods and medicines. Thats 0.001% of the population per year or 1 per 22,000 IGE positive persons per year. Just remember, the chances of dying from preventable medical error on admission to hospital is 1:300. (Official 300 page Institute of Medicine Report, November 1999) Ron Law ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:25:44 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Prepared for anaphylactic shock? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The allergist's caveat was that no one, not even me with my shots, is > completely safe from anaphylactic shock. He said he had treated beekeepers > who had keep bees for decades who had suddenly had a severe reaction. > Wanna bet that these keepers were glove wearing, and fully suited, to > prevent any possibility of stings. Good reason to throw away your gloves. And > why would you pay a doctor for maintainence shots every six weeks when all you > gotta do is use the bees you have in the back yard.? Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:47:53 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hank Mishima Subject: Re: Epipen In-Reply-To: Lloyd Spear 's message of Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:32:11 -0500 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) When one experiences an anaphylactic reaction, there is little time to react in some cases, to prevent death. I am not clear of side -effects to older people but I would not hesitate to use one if I saw one of my kids or myself having difficulty breathing or body swelling after a sting or similar reaction to food, etc. We have had the experience of going to an emergency room while on vacation to get injections for one of my boys when he had a reaction. It is a scary situation when you realize that a person's life is in jeopardy. It is insurance. I keep one at our farm where we have bees. No reason to be sorry down the road. To contact your elected officials see www.vote-smart.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:30:52 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George Richtmeyer Subject: Re: Prepared for anaphylactic shock? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Epipen is carried by me at all times when I am around the bees,under doctor,s orders because if you are taking anti-inflamable drugs ,you may have a reaction to beestings .Even thu you may never had a bee sting reaction before.There was an artical in The American Bee Journal about taking anti-inflamable drugs and bee-stings.These drugs like motrin,relafen plus some others that slips my mind at the moment. George,s Apiary ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:18:08 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Computers v. apidictor. In-Reply-To: <200001301818.NAA25981@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi: I don't think that there is any basic disagreement here. An appliance like the apidictor has uses, both as a stand alone unit or as an input sensor to a computer. The computer offers a broader range of capability, but at the cost of overall price, portability, etc. compared to the apidictor. Like some others on this list, I'd like to know about behaviors in addition to swarming - and unless the sound changes some time (days) before the swarm emerges, knowing the colony is going to swarm isn't much help - especially if that colony isn't one that you are standing beside (and even then, about the best you can do is to try to catch the swarm). Reprogramming a colony after the old queen has stopped laying is difficult - and I know there are those who will disagree with this statement - but I basically think its too late at this stage, the disruption of the colony's reproductive and other activities has already occurred. Anyone who has worked bees for any time knows that colonies make a variety of sounds, and the sounds that I can hear are associated with a variety of behaviors in addition to swarming. One might ask how a sick colony sounds, or one with tracheal or varroa mites or hive beetles? We know that bees produce sounds in a range below human hearing. And based on acoustic work that I did with grasshoppers years ago, resonance frequencies and other sound production may extend well beyond the most obvious sounds (primary frequencies of the original source sound) and certainly beyond human hearing. Therefore, some of us would like to be able to better look at the entire range of sounds and see if we can decipher more of its meanings with respect to the hive. A computer can help. For those who suggested software thanks. Some software I knew about, some I didn't. And yes, some of it is a lot more expensive if bought new out of the box with a license, rather than at a garage sale. Posting software or pointing to a web site is a big help. Saying its an easy task doesn't help much - providing code or software does. We know that the task is easy if you understand, for example, how wav files are encoded. Try looking them up - big job and not the information that most software companies give away upon request. Having someone point us at a way to open these files saves lots of time digging through books, web sites, etc. That's one of the good things about a discussion group like this - lots of experts, some of whom are willing to share their expertise in fields other than strictly beekeeping. Cheers ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:49:17 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Hale Organization: The "B"ee Spot Subject: Re: Epipen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have served as a paramedic for 17 years and the route that seems to be = folowed is quite wrong. I farm with as you guys call it the Africanised = Honey Bee. It is extremly agressive and I make sure that I have the = nessasaey equipment when ever I work with my bees. An epipen is a simple = and user freindly way of administering Adrenilin. I am not saying dont = use the epipen But rather start with anti-histermins and then as a last = resort use the epipen. The dosage of adrenilin to give varies acording = to the wieght of the person, so using it on a baby or young child could = kill them instead. Rather confer with a docter on the exact treatment as = to the size and age of the person as to how much to use or not to use. = Most fire dept. in the US (well ones that I have visited) seem open = enought to offer first aid training in that field. We are all = profesional Bee Farmers rather get good infomation from profesionals in = the medical field.=20 I will go through my books and try and get the correct protocols for = treating anaphylactic shock relating to bee stings, and post it the = first chance my bees give me a chance. Best regards=20 Mark Hale=20 >From not so dark Africa. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:33:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Epipen In-Reply-To: <200001311605.LAA25372@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ...I am not saying don't use the epipen But rather start with > anti-histamines and then as a last resort use the epipen. > The dosage of adrenalin to give varies according to the weight > of the person, so using it on a baby or young child could = > kill them instead. Rather confer with a doctor... Right, and nowadays, there is a possibility of getting professional advice quickly. Most commercial beekeepers now carry cell phones. In most of North American, Dialling 911 will get help quickly. A quick call to 911 will get an ambulance on the way while you are dealing as best you can with the problem, and cool, calm, professional instructions. In addition to providing the best advice on how to use the materials you have on hand, following the advice of the emergency authorities can shield you from legal questions as to whether your judgement and treatment was appropriate. Panic can result in inappropriate treatment that can be lethal. Of course there are times the phones won't work, but they are a good first step. allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:41:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Computers v. apidictor. Comments: To: "sci.ag.bee" In-Reply-To: <200001311601.LAA25243@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > For those who suggested software thanks. Some software I knew about, some > I didn't... Posting software or pointing to a web site is a big help. I realise that some of the discussion has been moving off-list. While this may reduce list traffic, it does mean that some who might be able to contribute don't have the chance. I'd like to see this discussion on the list within reason, because I feel that this may result in some momentous advances. We have a lot of talent in many fields converging here on BEE-L. If you are worried about whether your contribution is appropriate for the list or not, I'm sure the moderators will reject anything that is not suitable or redundant. At any rate, please send me personally all the links and software info (at allend@internode.net) and I'll summarize to the list, as well as set up a web page with the info. allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:50:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: FW: How to process OSR (Oil Seed Rape) honey the easy way MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: How to process OSR (Oil Seed Rape) honey the easy way From: Murray McGregor Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping >Agree with the general principles but... >Who wants pure OSR (not OCR!) honey - even if it is soft set? A bit judgemental is this not? The answer is 'lots of people', and the negative opinion on OSR honey is to a large extent a British opinion. It is held in fairly good regard most places, and the low opinion of it in the UK amuses some of my continental colleagues greatly, and in occasional glut years gives them an opportunity to buy quite cheaply a honey they see as undervalued at source. Perhaps as a beekeeper, you, similar to myself, have developed a taste for the somewhat more pronounced flavours of lime or sycamore, but it is important to remember that much of our customer base is not composed of experienced afficionados and many of them DO like blander types. Tastings we have carried out at major public events we have attended as far south as London and Birmingham have shown that straight rape, and rape plus 10% lime, were the two most popular blossom flavours, and anything containing sycamore was noticeably less so. Even our premium raspberry flower honey scored worse than the rape over 4 days at the BBC Good Food Show. It is really important to remember that we sell our honey to meet public expectations, not to satisfy our personal preferences, although the two factors are interlinked. We produce and pack at least 20 tonnes of this 'accursed' product each year and could sell more (much more!). It is well liked by our clientelle when packed correctly and many will travel to buy it, some of whom then tell us how they dislike 'that awful OSR honey', and that ours is much better. The surprise, even disbelief, when you tell them the floral origin is fun to see. It is a honey needing a little specialist handling, NOT a bad honey. Do it right and the customer will come back for more. >My technique is: > >Extract, strain to bottling quality and store all honey in 30lb buckets. >If you have to heat some of the honey to strain it then this will probably >set with a coarse grain. >The unheated OSR will set with a very fine grain - label these buckets as >they will be your seed honey. Not always. Especially in the case of spring sown varieties there can sometimes be a very rough crystallisation. Only way is to test the pails. >When you need to bottle set honey, melt honey at 120 degrees F for 24 hours. >Choose some OSR and some darker honey to give a good 'honey' colour. The >darker honey will improve the flavour. >Put it in the bottling tank and allow to cool around 70-80 degrees F. >Add 5% seed honey. >Stir (I have a tank with a stirrer - Maxant - but you could use the electric >drill) twice a day for about 10-15mins until set - usually 3-5 days. >The honey can be left in the tank until you are ready to bottle, then warm >to 100-104F (no higher or it will melt)and stir. Works OK, and both methods are sound enough, but they are seriously laborious and/or time consuming. All that is really needed is to filter and seed the honey at harvest time, then just run it off into pails, barrels or whatever. Then just store it until such time as you need it. Once it has completely set it just needs a gentle soften, a QUICK stir with a paddle (like 30 secs for a 60lb pail or a couple of minutes for a barrel), tip it into the bottling machine, and away you go. You just draw what you need for the next days run from stock, soften it overnight and pack it. Done correctly it will never go hard again, and maintain a 'spreadable set' consistency. Many (probably the majority) of our clients do not want it to be a 'flowing set' which moves if the jar is tilted or inverted. Melting too far back can, as suggested allow the crystal matrix to reform and the it can go quite hard and frosting can occur. Not far enough back and the beating causes a structure breakdown in one of the sugars allowing water migration to take place, resulting in seperation into two layers in the worst cases, or a 'furring' of fine bubbles in less severe cases. None of these are appealing to the eye and depress sales badly. (This could get overly technical here about the interlocking crystal matrixes of different sugars melting at different temperatures, but there are people out there on this group who probably know a lot more about that than I do.) >The honey will flow easily, set to a soft consistency and never frost unless >subjected to extremely low temperatures(I have some over 3 years old). Ditto, but the line between frosting and seperation can be a fine one with this honey. It is best to work as closely as is practicable to a 'bottle to order' system and not stocked in jars for protracted periods, but if you must it stores best kept fairly cool and preferrably in the dark. Murray -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:21:49 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: chris utting Subject: ex-Epipen In-Reply-To: <200001311414.JAA19581@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200001311414.JAA19581@listserv.albany.edu>, Hank Mishima writes >When one experiences an anaphylactic reaction, there is little time to >react in some cases, to prevent death. Professor Robert Pickard of Cardiff University Bee Research Dept. in Wales, Europe used to tell his students a good story about emergency treatment for anaphylactic shock reaction. Apparently the human body can produce adrenalin if shocked or embarrassed. So one method, if no other is available, is to remove the patient's clothes in public - if that doesn't work then throw a bucket of cold water over the patient. Has anybody actually tried this extreme treatment ? -- chris utting North Devon, England ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:45:53 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: Wax moth egg parasites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Mitchell wrote: > Does anybody known how to locate wax moth eggs? Are they visible to the naked eye? Have you read any of the extensive literature on this subject ? Wax moth eggs are easily collected by (1)setting up a culture in a gallon jar, with less than an inch of "pablum" or an equivalent baby food; (2) adding a few wax moths or "worms"; (3) fan-folding a sheet or two of waxed paper (the more folds, the better) and dropping it into the jar; (4) waiting a few days and extracting the paper. The eggs will be found in flat masses along the bottom of the folds. It is usually a good idea to stand the jar in a pan of water, or many small worms will get out. You might consult with Dr. Spangler through the webpage below if you have any questions - he has been working with them for 30 years. ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona 85719 http://198.22.133.109/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:02:29 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: SWARM TRAPS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, I tried the swarm trap last year and decided that the fiber trap was a major pain in the neck to use. It looks good in the catalogs, but putting it to use in a real tree with real wind blowing on it, and real frames getting jumbled up inside because the sided pinched in and out make it a bad choice. Cheap, yes, and also time consuming to use. The cover never stays on correctly in a tree. Tying the cover on either collapses the sides or pinches them in. In either case the frames fall off the rest and lean against each other. I tried to prop up the end bars, put screen over the hole to keep red squirrels out, placed a bungee cord around it to keep it on the tree limb with the cover in place, cut new form fitting end supports for the frames. So then, I asked myself, SELF, WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS ANYWAY? The easier way turned out to be not using the easier simple fiber trap at all. I placed an old hunters tree stand in a tree. I placed a single hive body on the platform bottom board, covers and all, and installed the pheromone lure in it. I strapped the hive to the tree stand with a hive strap. I installed a mouse guard and that was that. I leave two traps in separate locations in place near the apiary all year long. I did not loose any swarms this year and I did not catch any either. There was a lot of interest in them during the swarm season. I thought I had caught a swarm one night because of the heavy traffic in and out of each trap/hive, but it was not so. The platforms are 12 feet from the ground with the entrance facing south. One is in a Pine tree and is partially shaded at various times of day. The other is in a Cherry tree and has full sun for most of the day. I will replace the lure early this Spring, probably in early March. I have old dark combs in the center of each. Wax moths? Maybe, I'll let you know when I open them in March. If the combs are in bad shape, I'll change them. They had been rotated out of normal use anyway, so there was no great loss here. Ernie Gregoire "Beekeeper," definition= partially brave, partially excentric Grist Mill Apiary Canaan, NH. USA ------------------------------------- 01/31/99 18:02:29 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:25:44 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: POLLEN PATTIES/EARLY SPRING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, The temperature went up to 36.4 yesterday and afforded a four hour window of opportunity for bee chores. After a 21 day scourge of near zero and below zero temps, this was a great relief. I fed a pollen/BeePro/sugar pattie to each hive. Most of the hives look really good. I am glad I prepared the patties early. Four hours is not a lot of time and I had only two of them available to me. The bees were flying when I got back home from church, so I quickly shoveled enough snow to get through electric fence, which is not in operation now. The maple tree buds are swelling, and looking like early spring. I would appreciate a bloom report from the east coast southern areas. I watched this last year and spring progressed up the coast four weeks early. Beekeepers in the south could provide an excellent service for the frozen chosen here in New England. It would be very helpful in guessing the first bloom here. Ernie Gregoire "Beekeeper," definition= partially brave, partially excentric Grist Mill Apiary Canaan, NH. USA ------------------------------------- 01/31/99 18:25:44 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 07:10:22 +0800 Reply-To: joelmags Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: joelmags Organization: ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE FARMS Subject: Re: ex-Epipen > Apparently the human body can produce adrenalin if shocked or > embarrassed. So one method, if no other is available, is to remove the > patient's clothes in public - if that doesn't work then throw a bucket > of cold water over the patient. Has anybody actually tried this extreme > treatment ? Chris, A while back, some bees stung the feet of one of my people while we were hiving some package bees from Australia. His face started swelling and he had trouble breathing. Then, his mouth and tongue swelled up so much that he couldn't speak. We were so far from the city and it was 3 am so I just asked him to jog in place. After awhile, he was OK. Joel F. Magsaysay ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE FARMS Cavite Highlands, Philippines ilogmria@cav.pworld.net.ph (063) 46-865-0018 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:32:29 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: ex-Epipen In-Reply-To: <200001312351.SAA17620@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Apparently the human body can produce adrenalin if shocked or > > embarrassed. So one method, if no other is available, is to remove the > > patient's clothes in public - if that doesn't work then throw a bucket > > of cold water over the patient. Has anybody actually tried this extreme > > treatment ? I know if I am driving at night and tired, and something happens to scare me a bit, such as deer jumping out of the ditch, I don't need top worry about dozing for a half hour or so. I assume this is the effect of adrenaline. I have noticed one of the reactions I get to a sudden unexpected attack by bees is definitely a very similar adrenaline rush. Sometimes even routine and expected minor stinging causes a noticeable rush. Do not others experience this when attacked unexpectedly? Considering the strong fearful significance of a bee sting to most people, then how could a bucket of cold water or undressing compare? I'm not saying that it might not. Maybe the worst thing to do is to be supportive and encourage relaxation?... Dunno. Is it that some people do not get excited when stung? It seems to me that initially everyone should have a hit of adrenaline, and assuming that is true, why does the body not continue to pour on the adrenaline in such cases? Is it that fear sets in and takes over? I know that a strong feeling of impending disaster is one of the allergic reaction symptoms... Is this the 'fight or flight' phenomenon that prepares one for a crisis, but causes collapse in some people in some circumstances? Or is it simply the physical mechanism of the allergic episode and beyond the reach of the conscious mind? allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:23:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Becky or Al S Boehm Subject: Re: Prepared microscope slides On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:48:42 EST HStarJE@AOL.COM writes: >Where can I find prepared microscope slides with honeybee >subjects-body parts, pollen, disease etc. for educational purposes? > >Cesar Flores try Carolina Biological Supply Company 2700 york road Burlington N C 27215 1-800-334-5551 We homeschooled and this company has everything for a home lab including microscopes for your own disecting use (trachial mite diagnosis). and they have great service.. Al Boehm----Columbus N C