From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 10:28:48 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06283 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:28:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01967 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:31:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141531.KAA01967@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:31:39 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0003A" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 87479 Lines: 1826 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 00:23:54 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Robert J. Bassett" Subject: Re: tobacco smoke Comments: cc: benwagg@concentric.net, bwaggoner@autoprodinc.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/29/2000 9:14:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, darrells@INTERLOG.COM writes: << Bees don't like tobacco smoke and its hard on the beekeeper if you get downwind of the smoker but it seems to knock Varroa for a loop. Whether it is effective as a treatment or just as a quick test I can't say. >> ==================== Hello Bob and Friends, Just today I was musing over the possibility of different substances which we might use in our smokers to effect a substantial mite drop in our hives. I went to the archives and looked at grapefruit leaves and neem leaves as a possibility. I have both plants growing in my yard here in Florida. I considered tobacco but I worried that the use of tobacco might be toxic to the bees. I am glad that someone has had experience with it. I understand the content of nicotine in tobacco varies greatly and I wonder if we could do some real damage to our bees if we were to apply too strong of a dose in the hives. We used to use an insecticide (miticide) named Blackleaf 40 for our roses. As I recall, it was indicated for mites. We also used it straight out of the bottle on our chickens to kill lice. We would use a small paint brush and brush a tiny amount right on the birds' feathers under each wing and that would solve the lice problem very well. I never saw a bird get sick or die from this type of treatment, but all the lice did. Nicotine sulfate is the main ingredient in Blackleaf 40. I don't believe that insects have ever become immune to the stuff. I haven't looked for it in the store for years, Do they still make it? I wonder if we might be able to try using this substance in our hives. It would seem to be much easier to control the dosage. Perhaps we could soak some cardboard in a solution (it is water soluble) and lay it on the top bars? It smells just like a cigar to me. Does anyone on the list have any knowledge of the use of Blackleaf 40 in hives? I'm ready to start experimenting on some nucs. Would honey or wax be tainted or ruined for human consumption by the use of this stuff? How about the effect on baby bees? Bob Bassett - Just trying to think a little bit. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:36:58 GMT+2 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: MIKE ALLSOPP Organization: ARC PLANT PROTECTION Subject: Fluon Dear All There was a question some time ago about the use of fluon to keep ants at bay. Does anyone have any experience with this, and could anyone give me the details of a source for fluon. many thanks Mike Allsopp Stellenbosch, South Africa Mike Allsopp tel (27)(21) 887-4690 Honeybee Research Section fax (27)(21) 883-3285 Plant Protection Research Institute pmail plant3/vredma Agricultural Research Council email vredma@plant3.agric.za P/Bag X5017 Stellenbosch 7599 South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 06:25:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dennis Crutchfield Subject: Re: spring central missouri MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, So far out of 10 hives, one is queenless and joined to another hive. The weather has been warm, so the hives have built up very full. Eight of the nine hives left have limited stores. I am putting on some heavy syrup. Bees are coming in loaded with pollen. Apistan strips are in, and looking for a early season start . I noticed some early flowers around the flower bed:) Just praying for the right amount of rain for the season. Preacher's Apiary Ps 119:103 ¶ How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 09:44:13 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Fluon Fluon is kind of a "paintable teflon" that I have seen used in an urban entomology laboratory. Plastic shoe boxes had the inside top inch or two painted with the stuff, and the ants can't get a grip on it, so you can keep a colony of ants in an open plastic box this way. I heard that it lasts a couple of years or so (not forever) and after that has to be redone, so it was said. At that time (about 4-5 years ago if I recall correctly) I was told that it costs about a hundred dollars a gallon for the stuff. I am waiting to hear back from the lab to see if they have the information on where it can be purchased (at least where they bought it from). I'll post it when I find it. I imagine that bees couldn't walk on it either (until they goobered it up with propolis), but I am guessing that if you had you hives on a stand with legs and you painted the legs with fluon that ants wouldn't be able to climb up the legs of the stand. I think the legs of the stand would need to be as smooth as possible before painting. I was thinking of setting up a leafcutter ant colony for fun using fluon to help keep them in, and gave up on the idea when I found out how much it cost. If the guy at the lab ever calls me back with the information, I'll post it, but now I'll post this message. Good luck. I would be interested in how you intend to use the fluon in controlling ant problems if you wouldn't mind letting us know. Thanks, Layne Westover, College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:29:06 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Pehling Subject: Re: tobacco smoke Comments: To: "Robert J. Bassett" In-Reply-To: <200003011317.IAA29778@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Bob, Nicotene is one of the more deadly poisons available to the home gardener. Blackleaf 40 is no longer available in many states because of this. I strongly suspect that it would quickly kill an entire hive of bees. Also, of course, such an application is not legal - must follow label directions at all times. I've wondered about the tobacco smoke, too, as possible being harmful to the bees....might be something in the archive? cheers, Dave Pehling ============================================ | W.S.U. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION-SNOHOMISH CO. | | 600 128TH ST. S.E. | | EVERETT, WA. 98208 U.S.A. | | PHONE - (425)338-2400 | | FAX - (425)338-3994 | | EMAIL pehling@wsu.edu | ============================================ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 11:02:50 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: tobacco smoke How could tobacco smoke possibly be harmful to bees if it's not harmful to humans? Or so the tobacco industry says. As far as testing tobacco smoke or Blackleaf 40 (nicotine sulfate) on bees, I can think of all kinds of ways of doing it that wouldn't involve putting it in a honey producing beehive, and still get some results that would indicate whether or not it killed bees and at what application levels. Almost anything you could put in a hive would kill bees or contaminate a hive if you put enough of it in, even so-called "legal" or "safe" substances. Has anyone tested all the different toxic chemicals that might be produced using different smoker fuels and how they might damage bees? A little common sense goes a long way. Layne Westover, College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 11:14:41 -0700 Reply-To: flightdeck1@earthlink.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Re: why do beekeepers use bottom boards? (& BeeVac link) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murray's experience below shares my own regarding bees moving up, rather than down, from the entrance in a feral hive. So much so that I count on this info in estimating where to cut into the structure when removing feral hives. Bees escape danger by traveling up. Whenever I pull out a feral hive using a BeeVac (see my post to Barry Birkey's site: http://www.beesource.com/plans/beevac/index.htm ) bees will move up by groups when there is no comb left to hide behind. Perhaps bees prefer to move up from millions of years building homes in trees. Would you prefer to live in the warm dry 'upstairs' or stay below and be forever drowned and chilled by an exposed 'skylight'? Andrew, maybe you've had the luck to see bees making 'do' with feral structures when the only dry, protective entrance could by had from above? Of the hollowed trees I've seen, decay seems to start from the knothole down giving bees a top entrance. One hollow tree I pulled out last year had an entrance both below and above the beehive. The upper and lower entrances were over 6" across and both were found to be covered by a thin wax and propolis wall. The upper entrance was sculpted so rain wouldn't fall into their hive. The colors of the wax and propolis were 'disguised' such that you couldn't tell where the wood stopped and the wax began. Bees can be quite little engineers when nature doesn't build to their needs. Matthew Westall - Earthling Bees - Castle Rock, CO, USA > Andrew Dubas > writes > > can anyone find a beehive in the wild that their > >entrance is below the comb ? It is usually 99.9% above the nest. So why do > >we use commercial bottom boards ? > > This assertion does not equate at all with our experience. In my (even?) > more foolish days I was frequently called on to deal with feral colonies ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:35:48 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: Electirc Fence Mtce. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, The snow depth has been reduced enough to wear my ankle highs into the bee yard. This made for much better conditions to check the electric fence for efficiency. I have a deep cycle marine 80 A.H. battery that feeds power to the charging unit. I should have remembered to charge it at room temperature, but I did not. I must have been having a mature moment! ;-) The idiot ball was green indicating full charge, and it is usually so, if the charging temperature is 60 f. There is no substitute for instrumentation. A voltage check revealed only 9.5 volts instead of 13.0 volts. I have spare gel-cell batteries on charge at any one time for my ham radio activities, so I brought the deep cycle in for a good over nighter @ room temperature. Replacing the undercharged deep cycle battery made a big difference in the output of the charger. The fencer was putting out 3.7 KV at the end of the fence and 4.4 KV @ the source when fed by the deep cycle battery charged to 9.5 volts. The same fencer put out 6.1 KV at the source and 5.7 KV @ the end of the fence when fed with a 13.4 volt gel-cell. Not bad for frozen ground. BTW, ground rod connections need maintenance too. You can have the best fencer in the world guarding your apiary, but if you have a poor to non-existing ground, you might as well hang out a welcome sign for Winnie the Pooh when he wakes up from his winters nap. A good installation has ground rod connections greased up with axle grease after a good sanding to make the rod shiny. Then place Dux-seal over the connection. Dux-seal is an electricians putty. Work it like clay, and encapsulate the ground rod connection with it. The connection is made with a ground rod clamp. This goes around the rod and clamps the wire leading to your fencer to the rod. To insure a good ground in dry conditions bond 3, six foot ground rods together with a heavy braid battery cable. Set the rods 10 feet apart. Join one to the other, 1, 2, 3, and then join one of these to your electric fence charger. A good ground will make your fencer kick like a Missouri mule. Yes , this is a lot of work to keep bears out of the apiary. The work is worth it to me. Looking at a bear damaged yard is sure a sickening feeling. I hope I never have to experience it again. Ernie Gregoire "Beekeeper," definition= partially brave, partially excentric Grist Mill Apiary Canaan, NH. USA ------------------------------------- 03/01/99 14:35:48 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 18:24:00 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: QUIET SPRING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr Crowell says he used Apistan for 5 days last summer then applied the balance after the fall flow. My understanding is that Apistan should be applied for a total of 6 weeks WITHOUT A BREAK. Mr Crowell appears to have under treated twice in one year which must surely accelerate resistance in the mites. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 18:24:39 -0500 Reply-To: heritage.hollow@sympatico.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HERITAGE HOLLOW Ted & Joan Pichurski Organization: Heritage Hollow Honey and Herbs Subject: allergies to honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone tell me whether a person allergic to nuts or soybeans would be at risk if consuming honey from these sources? Given that these sources are only one of many that the bees may harvest. Are there any 'trace' elements of these sources contained in the honey that may pose a concern to the consumer? Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 20:51:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C.R. Crowell" Subject: Re: QUIET SPRING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr. Slade is correct in that I was not following the prescribed regimen. I was following a suggestion from Richard Taylor in "Gleanings in Bee Culture". Upon removing the strips I stored them in sealed plastic bags in the freezer to limit the dissipation of the insecticide, so that the strips would deliver as full as possible the balance of the treatment upon being replaced in the colony. I understand the suggested analogy to the improper use of antibiotics and the possible build up of resistant strains of the mite. I also only use the strips once each year, following the drop-off of the first major nector flow period (and then into the fall). My nectar flows seem to dwindle, not stop, in mid-summer, and really only cease in late fall. This regimen allows me to avoid leaving the strips on for a lengthy mid-summer period while the bees are putting up honey that can only be for their own consumption. > Mr Crowell says he used Apistan for 5 days last summer then applied the > balance after the fall flow. My understanding is that Apistan should be > applied for a total of 6 weeks WITHOUT A BREAK. Mr Crowell appears to have > under treated twice in one year which must surely accelerate resistance in > the mites. > Chris Slade > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 09:58:37 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Denis Brothers Subject: Velvet ants as problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Listmembers, A colleague and I are compiling a paper reviewing parasitism or other interactions of velvet ants (Hymenoptera, Mutillidae) with eusocial insects. We have found a few references from the late 1800's and early 1900's to species of Mutilla (in Europe) and Dasymutilla (USA) entering honey bee hives, disrupting the activities there, and in one case even parasitizing the larvae or pupae. As far as we can find, there have been no references since 1930. This is puzzling. We would thus be extremely grateful for any comments from beekeepers or others working with honey bees. Has anyone observed any interactions between female velvet ants and honey bees? In addition, mutillids are well known as parasites of bumble bees in Europe, but there are no credible records from the New World. Does anyone have any comment here? Thanks. Denis Professor Denis J. Brothers School of Botany and Zoology (and Centre for Environment & Development) University of Natal, Pietermaritzburg Private Bag X01 Telephone: (+27) (0)33-260 5106 Scottsville Fax: (+27) (0)33-260 5105 3209 SOUTH AFRICA e-mail: brothers@zoology.unp.ac.za ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 09:52:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "BOGANSKY,RONALD J." Subject: Seminar In Pennsylvania MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Lehigh Valley Beekeepers Association, in conjunction with Bucks and Montgomery County Beekeeping Associations, will be sponsoring a beekeeping seminar on Saturday March 25, 2000 in the Allentown, PA area. It will be an all day event beginning at 8:30 AM and concluding 4:30 PM. The location for the seminar is the Lehigh Carbon Community College, in Schnecksville, PA (5 mi. north of Allentown). Speakers: Lloyd Spear - Lloyd, a frequent contributor to Bee-L and owner of Ross Rounds, will speak on comb honey production, and colony management to ensure a successful crop. Jim Hansel - Jim is the grandson of the founder of the Bradshaw Honey Company, marketed under the name Three Bears Honey. They were one of the largest bee operations in Western United States during the first half of the 20th Century. Jim will discuss what it was like to run a large "family-owned" operation. It is a great history of early commercial beekeeping with many anecdotal stories. Dr. Dewey Caron: Most know of Dewey's reputation as an educator and of his research with honeybees. He will be speaking on his latest research IMP and varroa control. Dr. Bob Z. Horr: Bob regularly writes articles for American Bee Journal. He will speak on general management using some specialized, easily constructed tools, and techniques. The cost for this event is $5.00 preregistration or $7.00 at the door! Lehigh Valley Beekeepers hail from a six county area and work to provide high quality events at low cost to the beekeeper. This is our third seminar it the past five years. Lehigh Valley (Allentown) is located centrally in eastern Pennsylvania about 50 miles north of Philadelphia. It is easily accessible via I-78 from the east or west, and I-476 from the north or south. Most places anywhere in eastern PA or NJ are less than 3 hrs. away. For more information or to register contact: Ron Bogansky mhfarm@prodigy.net (preferred) or bogansrj@apci.com Dick Olson olsonrc@ENTER.NET Hope to see you there! Ron Bogansky Kutztown, (eastern) PA, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 16:29:20 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Barnett Subject: Re: QUIET SPRING Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Please read below: ---------- > From: "C.R. Crowell" > To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu > Subject: Re: QUIET SPRING > Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 20:51:26 -0500 > >Mr. Slade is correct in that I was not following the prescribed regimen. I >was following a suggestion from Richard Taylor in "Gleanings in Bee Culture". I cannot locate the above Richard Taylor document in the last 2 years of Bee Culture, but am missing 2 issues. Would Mr. Crowell mind citing for us year, month, and page so that some few may and be able to read the original? Thanks! > My nectar flows seem to dwindle, not stop, in mid-summer, and really >only cease in late fall. This regimen allows me to avoid leaving the strips >on for a lengthymid-summer period while the bees are putting up honey that can only be for >their own consumption .Clip I fail to understand the logic of applying Apistan for only five days in any possible context. The idea is to have apistan moving through the hive on bees and thus onto mites for 42-46 days consecutively, so that twice, once in each of the two brood cycles, every single adult mite will be exposed to the apistan at least once in each two lifecycle exposure, and never escape exposure completely (while under cover of the wax capping while in the bee is in its pupal stage). The directions however demand a treatment cycle of 42-46 days. Bob Barnett Birmingham, AL N 34, E 86 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 07:30:22 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: QUIET SPRING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/1/00 11:54:40 PM, Curtiscrow@WORLDNET.ATT.NET writes: <> I recollect Taylor's article. What Taylor was referring to was when you open the manufacturer's foil package that Apistan strips ship in you might not use all the strips that come in that pack. The Apistan strips that I have seen ship 10 to the package with an airtight foil seal. If I treat 2 hives with 2 strips in each from a pack, that leaves 6 strips in a no-longer airtight package. Taylor's recommendations were *solely aimed at those remaining unused strips* to keep them from losing their effectiveness. I strongly believe he did not mean to misdirect anyone away from the labels instructions for use of strips in the hive. John ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:32:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Fluon Comments: cc: vredma@plant3.agric.za Mike Allsopp from South Africa asked for imformation about Fluon, its use, and a source for it. Here is what I have found out from someone who DOES have experience with it. The application was "to keep ants at bay." The source: (at least A source): Northern Products, Inc. 153 Hamlet Avenue P.O.Box 1175 Woonsocket, RI 02895 U.S.A. phone: 401-766-2240, fax: 401-766-2287 name of product used: Fluon AD-1, cost $104/quart (at that time--I don't know about now). It cannot be a phone order but must be a written or faxed order. It is very toxic (in the liquid state). It does not particularly vaporize, but the people here who used it used rubber gloves, a lab coat, goggles, and used it (applied it) under a hood. My source said that the liquid is very toxic to humans, but after it's dry it is safe. He said he didn't know how it would work if applied to wood. They have only applied it to polystyrene. You might want to call Northern and talk to their applications people about various applications, to "talk you through it's use" and precautions that should be taken when using it. For those who may not know what this message is about, fluon is a "paintable teflon" that ants cannot walk on (they cannot get a grip), so might have some use in protecting beehives from ant predation (or harassment). So, Mike, I think people would be interested in knowing how you plan to use fluon and if you do use it, what results you got with it. Best wishes and good luck. Layne Westover, College Station, Texas p.s. I have seen it in use, and it is true, ants cannot walk on a vertical polystyrene surface that has been painted with fluon. It works. If I remember right, I think they use it at the Insect Zoo in Columbus, Ohio, too, as well as in the Urban Entomology Lab at Texas A&M University where they rear fire ants and other species of ants and other insects in open containers. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 23:46:13 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Ireland is looking for help with varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All The Irish Beekeeping List is up and running since early December 1999 and now has 127 members. Our main preoccupation in Ireland at this time is with varroa, since it has now become fairly widespread in our country - and I fear that many beekeepers unfortunately, are going to get bad news when they examine their hives towards the end of this month or early next month. And unfortunately we have as yet little experience with the pest. I would like as many beekeepers as possible to join our list, so that we in Ireland can tap into the vast amount of varroa experience out there, and which I know beekeepers all over the world would like to share with us here in Ireland. And we thank all of our beekeeping colleagues all over the world who have joined our list and who have given us valued help with varroa. I show below the procedures for joining the list, and thank you kindly for any assistance you can give us. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 SUBSCRIBING TO THE LIST. Send an e mail to IrishBeekeeping-subscribe@listbot.com Do not put anything in the Subject or in the body of the message. You will obtain an acknowledgment and you will be asked to reply to it. You are now a subscriber. Membership of the list is completely free of charge. SENDING A MESSAGE TO EVERYBODY ON THE LIST. To send a message to everybody on the list, send an e mail to IrishBeekeeping@listbot.com To see the archives visit http://www.listbot.com Click on Member Login, Click on View List Archives and Click on Irish Beekeeping discussion list. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 23:56:46 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Bees on TV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Turner Broadcasting Wildlife Adventures this March.... "Pollinators in Peril" Host: Peter Fonda Birds, bees, bats and insects pollinate the food crops that keep our world thriving. Actor Peter Fonda will explore the fascinating world of these often forgotten but crucial and overlooked animals, to discover the critical role they play in keeping ourselves and our world flourishing. Should include footage and interviews with UT cherry and apple growers, WA alfalfa seed growers, NJ cranberry growers and more, with a considerable focus on native bees. — From a post on another NG. It will be interesting to see if Fonda, who did great PR for US beekeepers in "Ulee's Gold", and the producers of this program will repeat the exaggerations and mischaracterizations of that seminal document of the imperiled pollinator movement "The Forgotten Pollinators" by Gary Nabhan and Stephen Buchmann. Some points to consider: > *Speculates* that honey bees may have driven some native pollinators to extinction in North America and elsewhere. Proof please? > Implies that honey bees are more inefficient than native pollinators because they groom pollen from their bodies and mix it with saliva and nectar (Native pollinators like the bumblebees do this too). > Propagates the unexamined fallacy of thought that "native pollinators" in North America are native *everywhere* in North America — there are more than 55 species of bumblebees here. A “native pollinator” in the Northwest is an invasive species in the East. A farmer or gardener who buys bumblebees from a bio-supply company in Michigan may be introducing a whole new invasive species in Massachusetts. > Says beekeeping, both as a hobby and an industry, is doomed by the arrival of the Africanized honey bee. A closer examination of where the Africanized honey bee comes from (Africa and South America) shows the bees have been successfully kept and managed for generations. The beekeeping industry in those areas of the world rival US output for some products. > Recounts the plight of Australian native pollinators and blames the honey bee for edging out the locals—without mentioning that bumble bees were also imported to Australia several centuries ago. > Implies that "native pollinators" are more benign than honey bees. Bumblebees will chew out the base of a flower evolved to be pollinated by hummingbirds and other large "imperiled" pollinators to get at the nectar there without pollinating the flower. Honey bees won't do that. > Fearmongers about honey bees by calling the size of the foraging force "fearsome" and "overwhelming." > Says honey bees outcompete native pollinators for their own native forage. A study of beekeepers in "The Hive and the Honey Bee" (Chapter 11) shows the majority of their harvest comes from introduced plant species. > Says beekeeping, both as a hobby and an industry, is doomed by the arrival of exotic mites. Beekeepers will do what they have always successfully done: Develop new management practices with the help of USDA scientists and carry on. > Talk about the diseases and parasites of honey bees and not talk about the diseases and parasites of native pollinating insects, at least in so far as managed or kept colonies are concerned. > Concludes that because honey bees in this country may be doomed for one trumped-up reason or another, money should be redirected away from honey bee research to alternative pollinator research. Unfortunately, recent trends in the U.S. have included an embrace of an immigrant-bashing mentality (blame it on the foreigners). Sadly, this "fashion" seems to have jumped over to the world of insects with the honey bee as the latest victim. The show airs (Eastern times): Wednesday, March 21, 2000 10:05pm-11:05pm Monday, March 27, 2000 1:15am- 2:15am Thursday, March 30, 2000 2:25am- 3:25am ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 04:46:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: FWIW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oddly Enough Headlines from Yahoo Friday March 3 12:07 PM ET Swarm of Bees Attack Woman, Child SYDNEY (Reuters) - A swarm of bees attacked a mother and her baby in Sydney, killing the woman and stinging the child more than 50 times, police said. Maryanne Savor, 38, and her year-old daughter Natalie were playing on the front lawn of their Sydney home Thursday when thousands of bees kept in hives in the garage swarmed over them. Savor tried to run inside her house, but collapsed at the front door and died, probably from a toxic reaction to the multiple stings. Her baby was found crying at her feet and rushed to hospital in a serious but stable condition. ``I have never seen a bee attack as bad as this before,'' Dr Alyson Kakakios, who treated the baby, said Friday. Police and ambulance officers who rescued the baby were also badly stung by the bees, but were treated in hospital and released. A beekeeper called to the house said the eight hives inside Savor's garage each contained up to 80,000 bees. It was not known why the bees attacked. ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 21:43:52 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Bees on TV In-Reply-To: <200003040457.XAA23966@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Recounts the plight of Australian native pollinators and blames the > honey bee for edging out the locals—without mentioning that bumble bees were > also imported to Australia several centuries ago. A correction for the above post. Bumble bees were not imported into Australia several centuries ago. Some turned up in Tasmania a few years back but there are none on the mainland. Re the plight of Australian native pollinators. We can give you research that shows that this is not correct. All accounts to the contrary are opinion and not based on research. Our research is refereed research. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:43:13 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Early Spring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, Here is one for the list. Today, in St. Louis, Missouri, it got up to 68 sunny degrees. Perfect day to inspect hives. One of the hives has me puzzled. I even checked with a couple fellow beekeepers who have been at this for many years, and they are puzzled too. This hive was requeened in June, and the marked queen was last seen in October. I opened the hive a month ago to find it "busting at the seams", but NO marked queen. I searched and located a unmarked queen. I was surprised to find that they had requeened sometime between October and February. Today, I opened the hive to find one frame with a softball sized area of drone brood, on both sides of the frame, and two queen cells hanging from the bottom bar! One was about 3/4 completed, the other was 1/2 completed. Both had royal jelly and larvae in them. There was NO eggs in the hive, nor any worker brood. The only brood there was, was the drone brood on the one frame. I did find the queen again, to be sure she was there. I checked 3 times for other eggs, and found none. Hopefully, someone can give me some insight into this, and let me know what to do. I am afraid it is still too early to make a split, though it has been a mild winter. The weather can change here too quickly. What about the unmarked queen? Is she a drone layer, or only preparing to swarm? Thanks all! Scott Visit the Jefferson County Beekeepers Association web site at: http://JeffersonCoBeekeepers.homestead.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 00:32:36 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carol Malcolm Subject: Austin, TX Beginning Beekeeping Workshop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings All, The Capital Area Honeybee Stewards announce their fifth annual Spring Sting Bee Fling!, a beginning beekeeping workshop to be held 1 April (no foolin') from 9:00 am to 3:00 pm at McKinney Roughs park on Hwy 71 East, 13 miles from Austin. Workshop fee is $20.00 and covers materials and enters you in a drawing to win a hive complete with bees! Workshop topics include an equipment overview, sessions on bee biology and bee diseases, and a "hands on" look at working a hive. To pre-register or for further information contact: Carol Malcolm dewsnap@worldnet.att.net or Efrain Escobed encino@worldnet.att.net Carol K. Malcolm dewsnap@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 20:42:27 -0500 Reply-To: adamf@Radix.Net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: adamf@RADIX.NET Subject: Stock Evaluators wanted: Mid-Atlantic USA beekeepers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This request is geographically specific to the Mid-Atlantic USA. I'm looking for a few good beekeepers! I need help evaluating crosses. Here's the situation: This Spring, we're planning on making crosses of specific lines. We're selecting for anti-varroa factor. From in-press work, Harbo has shown that through selection, stocks of bees may be selected for traits protecting them against varroa mites. It's more than likely that the hot new "Russian" bees the USDA has made available to breeders and beekeepers express these traits. What we're looking for are beekeepers within a tolerable driving distance of Metro Maryland/DC that would like to help us evaluate stock for it's potential anti-varroa factor. You'd need to pick up the queens from Maryland (mailing them isn't possible, sorry) and follow our establishment methodology. Once established, you'd need to perform the varroa assays we're working on, record the data, and store it safely until the evaluation is done. We'd then ask for the data at season's end, and maybe get together for a meeting and some fun. And you get to keep your queen. Our goal: to assess the methodology and feasibility of selection for anti-varroa factors in the honey bee population, and to support other beekeepers, bee breeders and biologists concerned about our LACK OF CONTROL in the agricultural realm of beekeeping in the USA. Background: We're testing honey bee stock from the HIP program (Kudos to Jack Griffes) see: http://Griffes.tripod.com/HIP1.html Jack has created and mentored a grassroots, cooperative honey bee selection program. He coordinates beekeepers, bee breeders, and University faculty in this forward-thinking and creative project. We've also obtained stock from Dr.John Harbo, Baton Rouge, USDA bee breeding lab. John provided us with some excellent stock from his anti-varroa selection research (in press). We'll be making crosses in May and June. The queens we'd need evaluated will be daughters from II (instrumentally inseminated) queen mothers. I'm working on the assay to test the queens. Drop me an email if you think you'd like to participate, or if you have any questions, comments etc. Thanks, Adam -- Adam Finkelstein adamf@radix.net http://metalab.unc.edu/bees/adamf ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:30:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Janet Subject: spring has come too early, now what? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I am a fairly new hobby beekeeper, living in Manitoba, canada. = Spring has come far too early this year and I am quite worried about my = bees! Generally I winter them indoors and they do very well. This year = spring has come so early with the temperatures getting up to +16 today I = have had to put the bees outside already. The weathermen are predicting = a snowfall for the end of this week, and who knows if it will be a heavy = one or not! I am wondering if a heavy snow fall should hurt them? Will = it make my winter losses any higher, or should I move them back inside = just in case? =20 Please give me some advice on what to do! Thanks! Jan=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 23:40:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Bees on TV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/4/00 6:50:03 AM, JMitc1014@AOL.COM writes: << > Propagates the unexamined fallacy of thought that "native pollinators" in North America are native *everywhere* in North America>> Honey bees are characterized by some as an undesirable, non-native pollinator in the US and elsewhere. The propagation of alternative pollinators, such as the bumblebee and the Orchard Mason bee, are presented as desirable because they are "native" (Nabhan and Buchmann, 1996). There may be many good reasons for alternative pollinators, but a mere preference for every other pollinating insect as being native over the immigrant honey bees is absurd. When preference becomes prejudice, arguments for new regulation, lost markets and lost research funding, it's a travesty. In Brian Griffin's The Orchard Mason Bee (2nd edition, 1999), subtitled "The Life History, Biology, Propagation and Use of a North American Native Bee," the author writes, "Only Florida and two of its neighbor states do not have a native population of Orchard Masons," he writes, "but even there the bees can be successfully propagated by refrigerating them in the winter months thereby simulating a northern winter." If you are raising Orchard Masons in an area where there is not a native population, then the bees are literally not native, invasive and competing with whatever native populations exist there. There are two subspecies of Orchard Mason. Osmia lignaria propinqua is native to the United States and Canada west of the Rocky Mountains. It has a cousin, Osmia lignaria lignaria, east of the Rockies. If you purchase Orchard Masons from a supplier west of the Rockies and raise them on the eastern side, you are probably introducing the non-native western bee to your region. In "The Forgotten Pollnators," Nabhan and Buchmann warn about the demise of the managed honey bee industry. The void, they argue, could be filled by "alkali bees, leafcutter bees and their other native cousins," especially for pollinating alfalfa. Problem is, the preferred pollinator of US alfalfa is Megachile rotundata, the alfalfa leafcutter bee, which according to Griffin, is a Eurasian bee that was accidentally introduced on the US East Coast in the 1930s. Why does this matter? Research funding and regulation for starters. For another, let's return to Nabhan and Buchmann: "As the National Gardening Association has learned through its surveys, close to 44 million Americans are involved in flower gardening, 30 million grow vegetables, and of the 26 million actively landscaping their yards, an increasing percentage are planting natives. Roughly half of all households in the United States include at least one person involved in these three activities, and there is great potential for engaging them, not only with plants, but with butterflies, bees, and other beneficial 'bugs.'" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:29:12 GMT+2 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: MIKE ALLSOPP Organization: ARC PLANT PROTECTION Subject: Fluon In-Reply-To: <200003040500.AAA24168@listserv.albany.edu> Dear All To those that have sent information on fluon, and on tanglefoot, thanks. > > For those who may not know what this message is about, fluon is a "paintable > teflon" that ants cannot walk on (they cannot get a grip), so might have some > use in protecting beehives from ant predation (or harassment). > > So, Mike, I think people would be interested in knowing how you plan to use > fluon and if you do use it, what results you got with it. Best wishes and good > luck. > > Layne Westover, College Station, Texas > We will soon be testing both fluon & tanglefoot to control our ant problem, and I will certainly relay to the list the results of our efforts. regards Mike Allsopp Mike Allsopp tel (27)(21) 887-4690 Honeybee Research Section fax (27)(21) 883-3285 Plant Protection Research Institute pmail plant3/vredma Agricultural Research Council email vredma@plant3.agric.za P/Bag X5017 Stellenbosch 7599 South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 20:13:55 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Early Spring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott, I would say that the bees superceded the marked queen late in the season. I would also say that the unmarked queen was also in the hive when you looked in October, you just didn't see her. She probably wasn't mated properly so only drone brood is present. The bees know that there is a problem, and are trying to raise a new queen-which they can't do because they don't have any fertile eggs. Just a long distance theory don't ya know. Mike Scott Moser wrote: > What about the unmarked queen? Is she a drone layer, or only > preparing to swarm? Thanks all! > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 00:57:21 -0500 Reply-To: midnitebee@cybertours.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnite Bee Subject: web update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! Bee article Page:http://www.mainebee.com has been updated. List of articles: 1)ABF Workshop 2)Special Edition 3)March Enjoy -- Herb/Norma Holly-B Apiary PO Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 The Beekeeper's Home on the Internet http://www.mainebee.com Stony Critters http://pages.ivillage.com/wh/stonycritters/ "an educated consumer is YOUR best customer" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 08:03:46 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Bees on TV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/4/00 6:50:03 AM, JMitc1014@AOL.COM writes: > Implies that "native pollinators" are more benign than honey bees. Bumblebees will chew out the base of a flower evolved to be pollinated by hummingbirds and other large "imperiled" pollinators to get at the nectar there without pollinating the flower. Honey bees won't do that. I offer the following long quote from an article published by the Environmental News Network last year as an example: Researchers investigate nectar-robbing bees. Thursday, July 22, 1999 Evironmental News Network Danger may loom for the lovely, red, trumpet-shaped blossoms of the scarlet gilia, a Rocky Mountain plant, according to researchers from the University of Vermont. They say the flower's nectar is in jeopardy because bumble bee "thieves" have been preventing sprightly hummingbirds from pollinating the gilia. Past studies have shown that nectar robbing may in fact have a positive effect on the reproductive success of a plant. Some robbers can unknowingly aid in a plant's pollination when they brush up against floral reproductive structures. In this study, published in the July issue of Ecology, researchers Rebecca E. Irwin and Alison K. Brody wanted to know if nectar robbing was detrimental to the scarlet gilia. To study the bee's effects on the gilia, the researchers first studied the method by which the robber steals nectar from the plant's blossoms. They found that the bee uses its spiky, toothed mouth parts to chew a hole through the side of the corolla, the petals that surround the inner parts of the flower. The bee then sucks the nectar out of this hole through a long, snout-like proboscis. While this method provides ample nectar for the bee, there is none left for other winged creatures, such as the hummingbirds that migrate through the region. The bee thieves also fail to pollinate the plant, a process that would likely occur after a visit from a hummingbird. Pollination in the gilia occurs only through interplant pollen transfer. For successful pollination to occur, the pollen of one plant must be transferred to the stigma of another, where it can fertilize the ovule and form seeds. Nectar robbing, therefore, has the potential to be highly damaging to the plant's reproductive success, the researchers say. Since individual gilia plants bloom only once, estimates of lifetime reproductive success can be measured in a single season. The researchers measured the rate of pollen transfer between the scarlet gilia plants by placing dye particles on flowers to imitate pollen. The number of dye particles deposited on flowers was compared in plants with low and high robbing rates. This was associated with the amount of pollen transferred by pollinators. They found that highly-robbed flowers donated and received fewer dye particles, indicating that less pollen transfer was occurring among those plants which were visited often by nectar robbers. "The most probable explanation for the reduced fitness of nectar-robbed scarlet gilia is that these plants attract less pollinators," said Irwin. "Hummingbirds tend to avoid plants that are highly robbed, and visit less flowers on those plants. Our study shows that nectar-robbing does decrease reproductive success in the scarlet gilia, further research will elucidate the effect of floral larceny on the evolution of floral traits." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:27:17 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Drones in Feb UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spring does seem to be here at an accelerated pace this year in the UK too. On the last day of February I went to look at a colony that was a swarm of NZ/Italians last year because I have been noticing drones thrown out with other dead bees all winter. Thought I'd check if they were queenright. Normally I would not examine bees so early in the spring for fear that they might ball the queen but as I am planning to do some queen rearing this year (not of this strain) I am planning to requeen anyway, and I don't want these drones flying either, so I thought an early peak would be permissible. To my surprise I discovered that they were not only queenright but the queen was laying full frames of brood, with a 1 inch strip of drone brood too on the middle frame, so these drones are this years. I've never kept NZs before and was astonished at their precocity. But this spring is rushing in fast. My signal for first manipulations is when the flowering currant begins to flower (something I've inherited from my Dad) - last year that was mid-March and that was early - yesterday I noticed that it is indeed breaking bud here in London already. Buddleiah, daffodils, crocus and prunus are all in fullbloom too. Madeleine Pym mpym@hive.netkonect.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 07:41:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: tobacco smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message was originally submitted by mordonez@ENTELCHILE.NET to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. ----------------- Original message (ID=5063EE56) (110 lines) ------------- From: "Marcelo Ordonez H" To: "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology" Subject: RE: tobacco smoke Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 01:45:54 -0400 If you are looking for miticides plants or gasses, try with the use of medicinal aromatic herbs. I constantly use in the smoker eucaliptus green leaves, bark and/or fruits, green leaves and bellboys in flower of rosemary (rosmarinus), branches in flower of thyme (Timus vulgaris) and others that I can obtain of my own garden or of my friends. Not to always use the same herb, but rather to use them in alternate form. The use of these plants is related with the miicides properties acaricidas of its medicinal compounds that are liberated in the smoke being able to reach the acari when burning them in the smoker, being able to at least to knoc out the mites. Of course that the objective is to use the essential oil of each aromatic plant for the miticide control, but when it doesn't have the purified extract, the smoke taken place by the combustion of these aromatic grasses turns out to be less dangerous for the bees and but pleasant for the beekeeper's nose, at the same time that it contributes to control the population of acari in combination with the traditional mite contol program. Some plants extracts information at the follows URL: Marcelo Ordońez ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:04:42 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rod Angell Subject: Is it to early Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) I would like any advice. I have three hive that overwintered very well.Two hives are still in the bottom supers with plenty of honey in the top supers,one is in the top with plenty of stores.All three have at the very least 40 pounds of honey stores left. I started feeding them pollen substitute and half and half sugar water Today. I live in Missouri and the weather as been so warm I am thinking we will have an early spring. I am planing on splitting these hives to make six more hives. My question is am I to early ? should I not even do this since they have plenty of honey? Can I stop after I have already begun? How soon can I start splitting these hives? the temp for the rest of the week is in the upper 60" can I cause problems for them if it turns cold? Have agreat sping Rodney ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:18:25 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Beekeeping is Very Simple Comments: To: "sci.ag.bee" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been thinking. Over the years we see a lot of posts on BEE-L, sci.ag.bee , and elsewhere in which people are --- basically -- worrying about their bees. There is a blizzard of replies in which other people try to guess what is the problem. All of us worry. I know I do, and it's usually when I know I've ignored one of the basics, or tried to get fancy. The thing is that bees -- we are told by good authority -- have managed to survive in widely varying conditions without -- or in spite of -- mankind's assistance since time immemorial. So why do we worry? If we put enough good bees into the right number of good boxes in a good place and watch for disease and predators, and feed them if they get too light, why should we worry? I think we worry mostly because we want to exceed the natural level of success of bees in terms of multiplication, survival, and production of hive products, and we often do it in locations that may not favour bees. As a consequence, we place heavy demands on the bees. >From time to time, I think we need to sit back and realise that the bees usually do fine by themselves if we have followed the mainstream practices outlined in all the books and avoided oddball ideas or tricky manoeuvres. Some of the books get into strange manipulations like Demareeing and shook swarming, but if one sticks to the simple basics, there is little likelihood of serious problems. If we keep it simple we have a lot less worries. Basically, bees need to have good nutrition, good quarters, and a good location. Beyond that, nature will ensure that there is reasonable success. In today's environment, some awareness of detection and prevention disease and predators is necessary in addition, but here again, simplicity and conservative approaches pay off in high success rates. That's why we suggest that beginners get more than one hive and also that they identify someone local who has had good success over the years -- in the opinion of his/her peers, not, necessarily him/herself -- and do as (s)he does. With several hives, the natural failure rate will not normally leave one without bees, although a loss here or there is perfectly normal. Beginners need to know that commercial operators run thousands of hives profitably, and some seldom do more than glance under the lid once in a while to ensure there are still bees there and that they look OK. Sure they take some losses, but they always have a (simple) plan to make up for them. Bees are tuned to work, 'straight from the factory'. The more one plays with the bees, the more risk of failure or trouble there is. It's much like a modern car: if you do the regular preventative maintenance and do checkups periodically, reliability is pretty well assured. If you try to soup up your machine or alter the factory configuration, you are asking for reduced reliability, and moreover no one will stand behind you to make things right. You MAY get improved performance, but you may also have bad economy -- or even a wreck. The best advice is to keep it simple and let the bees do what they have been doing for millennia. allen PS: I've done a bit of work on http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee lately, and added some new material including a link to some simple security items that wise internet users might want to consider. I now personally run a firewall, and find it simple to use and effective. So please do drop by and visit. I made it just for you. And, if you notice any problems, I'd appreciate any feedback as to broken links, etc. ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:54:40 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lori Quillen Subject: Need Slides/Photos for Public Presentation on the Importance of Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All! I am giving a lecture on the importance of our nations pollinators, and am desperately seeking engaging visuals! I am very interested in slides/photos of poorly pollinated fruits or vegetables. I want an image that illustrates what happens to food sources when bees are not present in adequate ##'s to provide pollination services. I have seen a photo of a malformed melon- but I cannot remember where!! I know such photos are out there, and this would really help get the message across to listeners!! I will be sure to credit the photo to the original owner!! Also- does anyone know where on might find pictures/slides of non-Apis pollinators such as Leaf Cutting Bees or Orchard Bees? Thanks so much in advance!! I would gladly pay for reproductions of images. They really help bring the point across to large audiences. Have a great day! This list is such a wonderful resource! LORI QUILLEN SUNY Albany 518-459-5584 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:51:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Bees on TV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 3/5/00 11:03:46 AM, queenbee@GIL.COM.AU writes: << A correction for the above post. Bumble bees were not imported into Australia several centuries ago. Some turned up in Tasmania a few years back but there are none on the mainland. >> I am fortunate to work for someone who is a collector of rare and antique gardening and natural science books. One of those books is "Nature's Garden: An Aid to Knowledge of our Wild Flowers and their Insect Visitors", by Neltje Blanchan (New York; Doubleday, Page and Co. 1900). The reference is as follows: "Australian farmers imported clover from Europe, and although they had luxuriant fields of it, no seed was set for next year's planting, because they had failed to import the bumblebee. After his arrival, their loss was speedily made good." What is the source of Blanchan's report? Here, from the book's preface, is the record of Blanchan's sources (and an introduction to the book). Pardon the long-winded quote, but that was the writing style of the time: "Although it has been stated by evolutionists for many years that in order to know the flowers, their insect relationships must first be understood, it is believed that "Nature's Garden" is the first American work to explain them in any considerable number of species. Dr. Asa Gray, William Hamilton Gibson, Clarence Moores Weed, and Miss Maud Going in their delightful books or lectures have shown the interdependence of a score or more of different blossoms and their insect visitors. Hidden away in the proceedings of scientific societies' technical papers are the invaluable observations of such men as Dr. William Trelease of Wisconsin and Professor Charles Robertson of Illinois. To the latter, especially, I am glad to acknowledge my indebtedness. Sprengel, Darwin, Muller, Delphino and Lubbock, among others, have given the world classical volumes on European flora only, but showing a vast array of facts which the theory of adaptation to insects alone correlates and explains. That the results of their illumining researches should be so slow in enlightening the popular mind can be due only to the technical, scientific language used in setting them forth, language as foreign to the average reader as Chinese, and not to be deciphered by the average student, either, without the help of a glossary. *These writings, as well as the vast array of popular books—too many for individual mention—have been freely consulted after studies made afield.*" Sadly, a more rigorous referencing system was not used. Perhaps Blanchan was trying to make the science more accessible to his readers. The exact source of his report on bumblebees, whether personal observation or the report of another, is unclear. More research of his above-mentioned sources could ferret the source out. Some possibilities: > The report is erroneous. > Bumblebees exist in Australia, but you have failed to observe them. > Bumblebees were introduced to Australia and something happened to them. If so, we need to know more about it so that countries with native bumblebee populations can adjust vigilance over and control of Australian imports. > Your data are incomplete and your theories have failed to account for the many stresses that face native pollinators in Australia and throughout the world in favor of an overly narrow focus that scapegoats honey bees. John Mitchell Associate Editor, Traditional Gardening magazine ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 18:15:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: NEW - Updated webpage with pheromone and trap references. Comments: To: Justin Schmidt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For all of you who need info on swarm trapping : Dr. Justin Schmidt and I have just updated and expanded his webpage, including an extensive list of pheromone and trap and monitoring literature. You may want to take a look. See at http://198.22.133.109/home/schmidt/index.html Any comments will be gladly accepted. Mail to edwards@tucson.ars.ag.gov - John ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona 85719 Lab webpages: http://198.22.133.109/ - (click on the no-frames option for better visibility) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 23:09:31 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Hefty Pollination Contract MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At the Pollination Home Page is a listing of beekeepers available for pollination (are you listed yet?), and a less-used list of growers who need bees. One new grower listing is looking for 1500 hives in Wisconsin this season. Take a look, if you think you could supply this. Dave Green http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 22:59:39 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gothoney@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Is it to early, from Upstate NY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I,ve done it many (300) times. Split with the dandelions and medicate at the same time to knock down the urge to swarm. Buy 3 queens. Nearly 100% acceptance and survival of splits and little swarming her in upstate NY. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 17:25:35 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Bumble bees in Australia In-Reply-To: <200003061851.NAA03562@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Firstly I have changed the subject heading as anyone looking in the archives for the subject we are discussing is hardly likely to look under "Bees on TV". John Mitchell wrote > > The report is erroneous. This is a strong possibility. > > Bumblebees exist in Australia, but you have failed to observe them. Highly unlikely. > > Bumblebees were introduced to Australia and something happened to them. If > so, we need to know more about it so that countries with native bumblebee > populations can adjust vigilance over and control of Australian imports. What has Australian imports got to do with this? We have exactly the same sort of mellifera as say the USA because we imported them from the USA and other countries in exaxctly the same way as the USA did. So if the USA mellifera bees have not wiped out the bumble bees in the USA then any we may send in the future are highly unlikely to react differently. This is the sort of unsubstantiated gargabe that, at a later date, assumes scientific status. If bumble bees were imported to Australia, and I say if, then they could have been wiped out by some predator in Australia. We have cases now of leaf cutter bees being imported to Australia for lucerne pollination and I am told that some of our native wasps are parasitising them. Now we are not going to export these leaf cutters nor our wasps so what is the point? > > Your data are incomplete and your theories have failed to account for the > many stresses that face native pollinators in Australia and throughout the > world in favor of an overly narrow focus that scapegoats honey bees. When is the data complete? Does anyone on this list claim to have completed all the necessary research to 100% prove something? Sure there are great pressures on out native insects. The first one is the human. The human cuts down trees that were the native habitat. The human sprays crops to kill pests which also kills native pollinators as well as our honey bees. The human sprays areas for mosquito, sand fly and midge control and must be taking out the native pollinators. With the above, what happens when some native pollinators are forced into a small area? Does one outcompete the other? Our contention here in Australia is that managed honey hives that are migrated in for a flow and taken out when the flow is finished do not have a detrimental effect on the fauna and flora of the area. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 22:18:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Marc Studebaker Subject: Re: Need Slides/Photos for Public Presentation on the Importance of Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lori Wrote: > >I am very interested in slides/photos of poorly pollinated fruits or >vegetables. I want an image that illustrates what happens to food sources >when bees are not present in adequate ##'s to provide pollination services. I >have seen a photo of a malformed melon- but I cannot remember where!! I know Lori check out the pollination scene at http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html maybe this will have some of what you are looking for. Marc Studebaker Geneva, IN ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 07:45:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Cannaday Subject: Reversal I have searched the archieves and read many good articles on reversing. I have a question that I didn't find addressed. I currently have my hives setup with one deep and one medium brood chambers. The medium is on top and I didn't want to move it to the bottom, also I want to change my setups to two deeps and remove the mediums for other use. At first look into my hives they are building up nicely and I was wondering if instead of reversing if I just place deeps on top of them to let them move up. My deeps are un-drawn and I plan on heavy feeding to get them drawn out. I live in S.E. Ohio and the weather although very warm can change quickly at this time of year. Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 06:57:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: spring has come too early, now what? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by drone@PGONLINE.COM to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. ------------ Original message (ID=734A1EA9) (48 lines) ------------------- To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: drone@pgonline.com (Ivan McGill) Subject: Re: spring has come too early, now what? Hi, just a quick note about bringing the bees out. I live 1/2 way up Northern B.C. and winter my bees inside, haven't had the wild temps. you have. If your bees have had a flight, things seem normal snow doesn't bother them this late in the year. Snow is not the problem, -20C or lower for any length of time because they we be starting the raise brood at this time. Depending on how many colonies you have and if it goes that low in temp. for any length of time, put them back in if you want. It happend to me 1 year brought them out to early turn real cold with a terrible north wind for about a week. Put them back in, 2 weeks later out with no problem. Ivan Prince George, B.C. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:40:42 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Bumble bees in Australia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/7/00 2:46:15 AM, queenbee@GIL.COM.AU writes: <> Nothing. Perhaps I stated my case too strongly. My apologies for baiting you. I'm upset about this issue and spoiling for an argument. <> Thank you, that's new information to me. <> The greatest threat to native pollinators is habitat loss. Take, for example, here in North America, the migration of pollinators along a "pollination corridor" between Mexico and the US. I recently posted a long quote from an article about a Colorado study that showed climate change having a deleterious effect on animals (2/16, Animal Starvation and the Weather). The study looked at how warm springs with deeper snowpacks cause animals to come out of hibernation too soon before vegetation appears, with starvation being the result. The article said researcher David Inouye's next study will look at how these changes affect hummingbirds that migrate long distances from Mexico to the US. Pollinators that migrate rely on a "pollination corridor" with a carefully timed sequence of appearance of flowers needing pollination. The results are not in and the study has not been done, but If that timing is thrown off by widening variations between low and high altitude habitats, then the situation for native pollinators can only worsen. Essentially, it's another way native pollinators are losing habitat, this time brought on by climatic change. Habitat loss is a significant threat to native pollinators. So are pesticides. Competition from honey bees, if any, is not. John Mitchell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:49:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Bumble bees in Australia/FWIW Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit gleaned from the sci.agricultue.beekeeping newsgroup fyi... You might like to read about eucalyptus honey from south west Australia http://www.gumforest.com/red_river/high_honey.html dave@gumforest.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 08:54:52 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Early Spring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott Moser wrote: > Greetings all, > . This hive was requeened in > June, and the marked queen was last seen in October. I opened the hive a > month ago to find it "busting at the seams", but NO marked queen. I > searched and located a unmarked queen. I was surprised to find that they > had requeened sometime between October and February. Today, I opened the > hive to find one frame with a softball sized area of drone brood, on both > sides of the frame, and two queen cells hanging from the bottom bar! One > was about 3/4 completed, the other was 1/2 completed. Both had royal jelly > and larvae in them. There was NO eggs in the hive, nor any worker brood. > The only brood there was, was the drone brood on the one frame. > What about the unmarked queen? Is she a drone layer, or only > preparing to swarm? Thanks all! > Scott > Hello Scott, Here are some possibilities.You did get a new queen that was not mated correctly in the winter.You could have had some drones still in the hive or another hive during the winter. I have been seeing some drones all winter in some of my hives.The bees have been getting some pollen mixture by me, so they will keep the drones. The hive in question is in real trouble without a new fertile queen..You can add the bees to another hive if you can't get another queen at this time.I had a problem with a drone layer yesterday and joined it with a weak hive. Mild weather brings on different Bee behavior in the winter.It is mild here in western Washington US and I have been doing some different winter work with my bees. It looks like mid-april in my hives and they will need splitting soon.This is the best wintering year ever for me in 30 + years. I still had 3 hives go into drone laying out of 100 in a low land area. I do not understand the correlation if there is any do to elevation.Plenty to learn and it never ends. Best Regards Roy Nettlebeck Tahuya River Apiaries Tahuya Washington US ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:28:33 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Early Spring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/7/00 12:36:01 PM, tahuyabee@SINCLAIR.NET writes: <> Could it be that low spots are places where colder air collects, so stress is greater? I was out sighting a new apiary the other day in the midst of snowmelt when only patches were left, and it was good opportunity to see the cold spots and micro-climates of the landscape revealed. Timing is everything.