From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 10:28:49 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06285 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:28:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01970 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:31:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141531.KAA01970@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:31:39 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0003B" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 118672 Lines: 2475 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:33:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: "Pollinators in Peril" /ehb & ahb in az(usa) Comments: cc: rvruss@juno.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks to j.edwards for his post on updated webpage with link to his & j.schmidt's study of feral bees in arizona including references to native pollinators, european and africanized honey bees: http://198.22.133.109/home/schmidt/jsjeopnm.txt "...In conclusion, feral European honey bees maintained a permanent population within all areas of Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument and adopted an ecological strategy that can be described as cryptic survivors. During poor years, these cryptic survivors were mostly inactive; during good years, they explosively reproduced, and their activity was seen throughout the areas of the monument. We cannot characterize the Africanized population in any detail at this point and do not know if they are simply migrants coming into the monument, where they will likely have poor survival, or whether they can establish viable reproductive populations there. The questions relating to the impact of honey bees and their effects on pollinator and plant communities in the monument cannot be answered directly from the results of this investigation. It appeared that feral European honey bees might not have had a severe impact on native pollinators because their populations, especially their foraging populations, were low during the harsh dry-to-normal years. In the xeric areas, we often could not detect even a single forager at flowers, or even at water sources (unpublished observations). Thus, they likely were not serious competitors for native pollinators during these times. During wet years, there likely were enough floral resources that all pollinators -honey bees and native pollinators alike- had excess floral resources available. The story with Africanized bees might be different. We do not know if Africanized bees will be able to establish much larger populations than the feral European bees, and if these populations will be able to be active during the dry years and seasons during the year. If they are populous and active, they might well outcompete native pollinators during critical resource times and drive the latter to low populations or extinction...." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:03:33 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Bumble bees in Australia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" John Mitchell refers to "> Nature's Garden: >An Aid to Knowledge of our Wild Flowers and their Insect Visitors", by Neltje >Blanchan (New York; Doubleday, Page and Co. 1900). The reference is as >follows: > > "Australian farmers imported clover from Europe, and although they had >luxuriant fields of it, no seed was set for next year's planting, because >they had failed to import the bumblebee. After his arrival, their loss was >speedily made good." > > What is the source of Blanchan's report? This description may relate to the introduction of bumble bees to New Zealand to pollinate the red clover planted by settlers. Australia and New Zealand collectively are referred to as "Australasia" and I can easily imagine that an author writing in the United States in 1900 may not have appreciated the distinction. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island J.H. & E. McAdam Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: christopher.slade@ZBEE.COM Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: Bees on TV CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 850 MSGID: 240:244/186 891487ca REPLY: 240:44/0 a0058d65 PID: FDAPX/w 1.13 UnReg(110) Hello Trevor, For those of us who have not met the term before please explain what you mean by "refereed research". It sounds like good news but being a pedantic so and so I like to have unfamiliar terms defined. Thanks, Chris Slade --- * Origin: Beenet Point (240:244/186) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 07:43:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Reversal In-Reply-To: <200003080500.AAA22691@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On reversing, If you have 1 deep and mediums on top, you can simply reverse twice. In other words, put the deep on top of the meds. until the queen moves up and then put it back down. I wouldn't rely on feed to get foundation drawn out; much better to do it during a honey flow on a strong hive. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - Peter Borst Apiary Technician Dyce Honeybee Lab Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853 plb6@cornell.edu phone: 607 275 0266 http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/plb6/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:57:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Swintosky, Michael D." Subject: Re: Bumble bees in Australia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" John Mitchell wrote: "... Habitat loss is a significant threat to native pollinators. So are pesticides. Competition from honey bees, if any, is not." This "Bees on TV" and now "Bumble bees in Australia" thread has been interesting to follow. Some of the information presented has been objective observation. Some has been clearly opinion. And some has been persuasively phrased to enjoin others to side with the conclusions drawn. My initial thoughts and feelings upon reading John Mitchell's summary thoughts above were negative. After all, exactly what is meant by "significant threat"? Just how detailed and extensive were the studies referred to in the text not quoted? How long term were these studies to be able to make the blanket statement honeybees do not constitute a significant threat to native pollinators? We know that ANY new species introduced to an environment is going to produce change. If that species flourishes, the change to the environment is likely to be dramatic in one or more respects. Dramatic change of any kind is likely to be supportive of some species while constituting a "significant threat" to others. Thus, a ripple effect occurs. One thing affects another, which affects another, and so on. Eventually the ripples die down and a new status quo (if you can term it that) is established. Did the above mentioned studies observe the goings on of a small part of the change brought about by introduction of honeybees? Were ripples still going on or had they ceased? Some of the ripples likely were manifesting among species not included in the studies. If such ripples were in fact going on unobserved, it would certainly be conceivable that new ripples could reappear later among species included in the original studies but after the studies had drawn their conclusions. On the other hand, maybe the ripples had in fact ceased by the completion of the studies, in which case the studies' conclusions would be more valid. My point in this somewhat lengthy dissertation is to caution against fully embracing ANY conclusions no matter how well presented. There are almost always some small details outside our current view that, in the long run, turn out to be more significant than anyone dreamed. Instead, use the drawn conclusions as a jumping off point for the next study. In short, open-mindedness is the best policy. If this note came across as an attack on John's logic, it wasn't. John and the others involved in this thread (as with all threads) are simply participating in the ongoing process of discovery. Yes, my stated thoughts and feelings were negative. They could just as well have been positive, as I am sure they were for some readers. Either response, positive or negative, that entices one to join in the fray is good. Only ambivalence is truly "negative". The soapbox is now open... Mike ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:32:24 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Early Spring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Mitchell wrote: > > > Could it be that low spots are places where colder air collects, so stress > is greater? > I was out sighting a new apiary the other day in the midst of snowmelt > when only patches were left, and it was good opportunity to see the cold > spots and micro-climates of the landscape revealed. Timing is everything. Hello John, Lowland around here is near sea level. The water moderates the cold in the winter, so its about 10 F warmer than my place at 600 feet and inland. Micro climates are very important in placing bees.Over the years I have found a great difference in honey production do to location.In the mountains is where it shows up the most.2000 plus feet southern exposure and on rock.The rock holds the heat for the night. I have gone so far as getting inferred shots over the olympic mountains to locate the warm spots. Best Regards Roy Nettlebeck Tahuya River Apiaries ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:27:19 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: "Pollinators in Peril" /ehb & ahb in az(usa) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tomas mozer wrote: >>>>>>>snip>>>>>>> > especially their foraging populations, were low during > the harsh dry-to-normal years. In the xeric areas, we > often could not detect even a single forager at flowers, > or even at water sources (unpublished observations). We try. Sometimes I think most of our observations are unpublished. Some desert mountain ranges are so remote - across dry valleys - that the bees never seem to get a foothold. When they do, they can hang on in rock holes through astonishing droughts. The Air Force and the Wildlife Refuge system ensure that no beekeepers have been there for maybe fifty years. Maybe you can understand how this isolation attracted me to study bees in the "despoblado" (uninhabited area). ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician "Feral Bee Tracker and AHB Identifier" Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona http://198.22.133.109/ -use no-frames option on first page for better viewing. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:50:41 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: Need Slides/Photos for Public Presentation on the Importance ofBees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lori Quillen wrote: > Also- does anyone know where on might find pictures/slides of non-Apis > pollinators such as Leaf Cutting Bees or Orchard Bees? > > LORI QUILLEN > SUNY Albany Yes - Try the USDA Bee Lab in Logan, Utah. beeweb@cc.usu.edu http://www.LoganBeeLab.usu.edu/ - They don't get much exposure on this list, but I know they are still there, doing most of the USDA work on native bees. Bill Nye was taking great display photos there decades ago, and I'm sure they continued the tradition. ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona http://198.22.133.109/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:55:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: Bumble bees in Australia Comments: To: klehnus@henv.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Swintosky, Michael D." wrote: > John Mitchell wrote: > "... Habitat loss is a significant threat to native pollinators. So are > pesticides. Competition from honey bees, if any, is not." > > > We know that ANY new species introduced to an environment is going to > produce change. If that species flourishes, the change to the environment > is likely to be dramatic in one or more respects. Dramatic change of any > kind is likely to be supportive of some species while constituting a > "significant threat" to others. Thus, a ripple effect occurs. The soapbox is > now open... > > Mike Perhaps I should preface this by calling it my rationalization. I have not studied, but thought on the topic considerably. Honeybees are managed for many reasons. A most significant reason is the large number of foragers supported on a per colony basis. This would effect the environment considerably due to the uniqueness of this trait. One significant effect would be the more effective pollinationof plants that require significant numbers of trips or viable seed in a short period of time in order to produce best seed. This would have the affect of perhaps giving some plant species a more effective breeding or rather reproductive ability, it did not have without the honeybee. This would also affect native species. The more pronounced effect would bethe actual ability to move bees into and out of fields in significant numbers to allow (for instance) 100 colonies to exist in a period of time that would not be able to survive for a year. While a particular site may be beneficial to (say) squash due to a naturally large honeybee population (and therefore better seed viability/acre),It can't hold a candle to the farmer's ability to now come into 100 acres and plant a field of squash knowing that the good old boy (me) down the road will arrive at the scientifically derived proper time to ensure a significantly larger number of fruit than would be naturally pollinated without the temporary introduction of this flood of pollinators. This is one factor that makes crops such as this economically feasible. The 2-3 weeks the honeybees were there did not crowd out the native pollinators, they augmented. When I pollinate melon, I see many other species besides my honeybees in the field. It is a good thing. It is in my best interest to also attract these other pollinators. The better crop I help create by any means is another feather in my cap and more work next year. The larger affect on native pollinators is the fact that the honeybees make it possible to monocrop larger than would be feasable without their introduction. The pollinators are not crowded out by honeybees. The meadows of uneconomical weeds, flowers "unproductive land" are removed. With the advent of real estate taxes and such, you cannot have large tracts of unused land. We are forced to make all the land pay for itself or sell it. Unimproved land is too costly to hold for the sake of holding it. The Soapbox is now passed to the next person in line. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, VA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:09:18 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Bumble bees in Australia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The reference to the introduction of bumble bees into Australia does seem, to me, likely to have been a confusion with the New Zealand introduction of bumbles. After all, we're only 1,500 miles apart - neighbours on a worldly scale, though we won't often admit it to each other (heh, heh). Red clover was planted in the South Island in the 1880s and there was inadequate pollination, generally thought to be because the 'throat' of the red clover flower is longer than white clover's, meaning that honey bees would not find the crop so attractive. Four species of bumbles were introduced at that time, by the 'acclimatisation societies' (I think they were called...), and all still survive, I believe - Dr Barry Donovan who may read this list could provide authoritative information... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:12:08 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney" Subject: Re: Bumble bees in Australia In-Reply-To: <200003081538.KAA04799@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 8 Mar 2000, Swintosky, Michael D. wrote: > We know that ANY new species introduced to an environment is going to > produce change... We do not know anything of the kind. The above statement clearly is "opinion." More likely, in a world governed largely by chance, the result is just the opposite, most adventive populations ultimately failing to become established. Those of us who work in biological control know this all too well. **************************************************************************** Tom Culliney Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture, Division of Plant Industry, 1428 South King St., Honolulu, HI 96814, U.S.A. E-mail: culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu Telephone: 808-973-9528 FAX: 808-973-9533 "To a rough approximation and setting aside vertebrate chauvinism, it can be said that essentially all organisms are insects."--R.M. May (1988) "Bugs are not going to inherit the earth. They own it now. So we might as well make peace with the landlord."--T. Eisner (1989) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:40:31 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: Bumble bees in Australia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear List Members, In reply to Nick Wallingford's message about the importation of bumble bees to Australia and New Zealand, four species were established in New Zealand from importations of queens from England in 1885 and 1906 - Bombus terrestris, B. ruderatus, B. subterraneus and B. hortorum. According to Buttermore (1997), Rayment (1935) claimed that B. terrestris and B. ruderatus were unsuccessfully introduced to Australia in 1884, 1885, 1927 and 1930, but he gave no further information about the 19th century dates. Buttermore (1997) stated that to his knowledge the earliest documented attempt to establish bumble bees in Australia was the importation of 94 queens of an unknown species from New Zealand to New South Wales in 1891 and 1892. Others from New Zealand were released in Tasmania in 1909, and Rayment in the 1930s imported queens from New Zealand to the State of Victoria. There were no establishments form all these efforts. However B. terrestris is now spreading over Tasmania from an establishment by unknown means in Hobart, discovered in February 1992. To my knowledge no New Zealand beekeeper has ever regarded bumble bees as a problem to beekeeping. Dead bumble bees are sometimed found outside beehives after being stung while attempting to enter the hive, and of course bumble bees remove pollen and nectar from many flowers that honey bees forage upon. However bumble bee numbers are so low compared to honey bees that they rarely ever are even mentioned by beekeepers, and if they are it is only out of curiosity about their life cycle compared to that of honey bees. Regards, Barry Donovan Canterbury Agruiculture and Science Centre Lincoln South Island New Zealand. ________ CAUTION: The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential. If you read this message and you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. Any opinions or views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of their employer. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 18:15:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Subject: Re: Bumble bees in Australia In-Reply-To: <200003082356.SAA22273@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > On Wed, 8 Mar 2000, Swintosky, Michael D. wrote: > > > We know that ANY new species introduced to an environment is going to > > produce change... > > We do not know anything of the kind. The above statement clearly is > "opinion." More likely, in a world governed largely by chance, the result > is just the opposite, most adventive populations ultimately failing to > become established. Those of us who work in biological control know this > all too well. > Since we are on a bit of a soapbox, this leads into one of my favorite subjects. If we are just another part of nature we should be careful about labeling change evil. We are no more evil than an ice age. If honeybees were to crowd out a preexisting population then it is because the honeybee has a repoductive advantage, beekeepers! The genes that give a honeybee a reproductive advantage are the exact same ones we as beekeepers are looking for. This is another example of one species working with another. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:32:56 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Bumble bees in Australia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Nabhan and Buchmann write this about the honey bee in Australia: Today, ecological researchers and conservation biologists have good evidence that honeybees are adversely affecting vertebrate pollinators (in Australia) including rare honeyeaters and honey possums. Especially during critical breeding periods and during years of drought, nectar and pollen production in the bush are so low that native nectar-feeding wildlife starves while honeybees usurp their needed floral resources." The only source given anywhere near this statement is a Professor R. Wills in Perth. The statement purports that there is a consensus of opinion about the "hordes" (to borrow yet another politically charged word from the authors) of honeybees. Yet Trevor Weatherhead reports, "We have cases now of leaf cutter bees being imported to Australia for lucerne pollination." If native pollinators were so put upon in Australia—if their situation was as dire as all that—I find it hard to believe that authorities would approve the experimental release of another non-native pollinator. i am assuming, of course, that the leaf cutter releases were approved by Australian authorities. I can only conclude from this that Australian biologists are not so greatly concerned about competition from non-native pollinating insects, whether honey bees or leaf cutters. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:30:58 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Bumble bees in Australia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 3/8/00 9:47:48 PM, DonovanB@CROP.CRI.NZ writes: <> The question I raise is not whether bumble bees negatively affect honey bees. The question is which presents a threat (if any) to native pollinators when introduced to a new environment. Bumble bees will chew out the base of a flower evolved to be pollinated by another animal, such as a hummingbird or a bat, to get at the nectar without pollinating the plant—thereby reducing the chances for success for both the plant and its natural pollinator. What the advocates of native pollinators seem to be ignoring is that the businesses that supply the demand for "native" pollinators do what good capitalists do—standardize their product for efficiency. It's more cost effective to raise one species of bumble bee or Orchard Mason and send it everywhere than to try to produce 55 species of bumble bee, or even two species of Orchard Masons. People are duped into thinking they are striking a blow for conservation, when in fact they are accelerating the proliferation of non-native exotics throughout the countryside. Do I personally believe native pollinators need protection from non-natives? Not where honey bees are concerned. Honey bees have been around long enough to be considered a naturalized citizen, a successful immigrant, whether in New Zealand, Australia or America. The greater threat of the unknown is what happens when wholly new pollinating insects are introduced in a misguided attempt to right the debatable "wrongs" of honey bees. John Mitchell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 20:45:46 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Bumble bees in Australia In-Reply-To: <200003072316.SAA15628@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chris Slade asks > For those of us who have not met the term before please explain what you mean > by "refereed research". It sounds like good news but being a pedantic so and > so I like to have unfamiliar terms defined. Refereed research is research that is published after having had peer review. It could be a thesis that is subject to review by a panel or it could be a manuscript that is published in a reputable journal which has an editorial panel which reviews or referees the paper. An example is the IBRA Journal of Apicultural Research. You will offer see a statement such as "Received ......., accepted subject to revision ...., accepted for publication...." Students who do degrees where a paper is published often have several reviews where suggestions are made to improve the content. This way there is some scrutiny on what is written to make sure that it is "scientifically sound". The opposite is opinion. It may be in the form of a letter to the editor where an opinion is expressed. A lot of the debate in this issue of competition is from people who are expressing an opinion. There is no scientific evidence to back up the opinion and I can have an opposite opinion that is just as valid but again has no scientific basis. The problem arises when these opinions are taken as scientific fact. The classic is where in a paper the author says, "There was no statistical data to show that (such and such occurred) but it would seem that (such and such did occur)." This then gets reported in the next opinion as "(Fred) in his paper (title) showed that (such and such did occur). Now this is repeated by someone else and suddenly it has taken on "scientific proof" status when in fact the author admitted it did not. So a lot of the contributions on this subject in the past day or so on Bee-L are opinions. There is nothing wrong with informed opinions as long as they are not elevated to scientific status. Informed opinions or anecdotal evidence are not scientific fact but they make a good basis to carry out a scientific experiment Thanks to Barry Donovan for his contributions on the bumble bees. Can Barry list the Buttermore and Rayment references please. I thought of asking off list but then I thought there may be others who on Bee-L who would be interested also. Trevor Weatherhead. AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 05:25:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Competition In-Reply-To: <200003091207.HAA05336@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > A lot of the debate in this issue of competition is from people > who are expressing an opinion. True. Nonetheless, the simple fact that is getting buried is that if one moves 3 or more hives per acre into an area during a period when another competing insect is active you are going to have heavy competition. I have understood that some species only are active for a month or so a year and dormant the rest. This is particularly true in a year when the plants are not yielding well. We don't need refereed research to know that. We only have to look at our own bees to see the effects or speak to the leafcutter beekeeper that pollinates the same field with us. That is not to say that the competition in all such cases is necessarily direct, since each species will have slightly different foraging advantages (preference, time of day, method of approach, length of tongue, range etc.) and requirements. It is to say, though that if one insect cleans up *all* available nectar and pollen in the area -- which we know honey bees will do when heavily stocked on pollination -- that there will be nothing left to argue about for the other species. Some of those species may only get one opportunity per year to go through the foraging part of their cycle, but the honey bees may have made a clean getaway on a lorry to an area where they can recover. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:04:09 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/9/00 7:31:47 AM, allend@INTERNODE.NET writes: <> Competing for what? An introduced plant species, since migratory beekeepers (in the US) generally don't move honey bees into an area in that density without a target crop nearby. Pollinators that are active for only a month are probably specialists evolved to pollinate native flowers. It's likely that the pollinator's target flower is evolved to discourage any other pollinator but the one it co-evolved with over thousands of years. Regardless of whether the insect you refer to is a specialist or a generalist, there is no disruption of the natural habitat by a "dominant exotic," since the competition, if any, is over an introduced species. It's a question of habitat loss, not competition. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:12:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Competition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit see this for how native bees hedge bets for survival: http://unisci.com/stories/19994/1118995.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:34:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Swintosky, Michael D." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Wed, 8 Mar 2000, Swintosky, Michael D. wrote: > We know that ANY new species introduced to an environment is going to > produce change... Tom Culliney wrote: "We do not know anything of the kind... " Tom quite rightly points out a problem in my statement above. My intended meaning was in reference to a new species that becomes established. Merely introducing a species that quickly dies out will not likely create any significant ripples in the environment. A species that becomes established occupies a permanent niche, generally displacing something in the process and offering new opportunities for the environment as a whole. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:22:12 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Competition In-Reply-To: <200003091343.IAA07755@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Pollinators that are active for only a month > are probably specialists evolved to pollinate native flowers. It's likely > that the pollinator's target flower is evolved to discourage any other > pollinator but the one it co-evolved with over thousands of years. "Probably", and "likely"? What is presented as obvious is not quite so obvious to me. Even what I quote above is true -- and I doubt it -- what about the exceptions? After all, probable exceptions are definitely indicated in the statements quoted here, since I do not see the words "Absolutely" and "definitely". I should think that such exceptions should count for something. I'd prefer not to speak in wild sweeping generalities. I'd sure like to see some data and specific examples to back up the rather general and unsubstantiated claims being made. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:47:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Mares Subject: feral bees? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Are they gone? Are they going? Are they just hiding? I've read various assertions about the varroa-induced destruction of all-most-many-some feral ("wild") bees on this country. Does anyone have any better data than these gut feels? Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:06:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Mike and everyone, Swintosky, Michael D. wrote: "Tom quite rightly points out a problem in my statement above. My intended meaning was in reference to a new species that becomes established. Merely introducing a species that quickly dies out will not likely create any significant ripples in the environment. A species that becomes established occupies a permanent niche, generally displacing something in the process and offering new opportunities for the environment as a whole." Again Mike most exotic species that get established cause no observable harm to the environment. Examples include rainbow trout ( steelhead ) in the great lakes states USA and brown trout in North America. A few exotic species do cause major environmental harm but it is not so simple as exotic = bad and native = good. If honey bees caused such great harm to native pollinators here in USA we would not have the native pollinator populations we do have. Also nobody has mentioned that our native pollinators have their pests and diseased which tend to limit their population buildup to some extent if we try to increase their numbers in an area. Native pollinators have their place in production of certian crops but they will never replace honey bees which we can move in by the millions to pollinate a crop and take them out of the area once the crop is set. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:20:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: University of Illinois Short Course on Bees and Beekeeping 2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by ecapaldi@LIFE.UIUC.EDU to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove text mark up commands. -------------- Original message (ID=472E68CB) (120 lines) ------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:20:25 -0600 To: Bee-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Elizabeth Capaldi Subject: University of Illinois Short Course on Bees and Beekeeping 2000 I am happy to announce the Fourth Edition of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign's Bees and Beekeeping Short Course, scheduled this year for July 29th-30th, 2000. I thought the readers of the Bee-L list would enjoy some advance notice of the workshop. We have planned some new lecutres and experiments this year, so you if are a past participant, you are welcome back. Join us! We would appreciate your help in advertising the course - please share this information with your friends and fellow beekeepers. University of Illinois Short Course on Bees and Beekeeping Saturday & Sunday, July 29-30, 2000 Lectures, hands-on workshops, and informal discussions on: Introduction to beekeeping Honey as a neutraceutical Bee anatomy Mite biology and management Bumble bee biology Queen rearing Bee diseases &Small hive beetle Breeding and genetics Sting allergies Wintering honey bees Colony organization Swarm control Plus: Bee experiment: participants can join a research team and study bee behavior Birds of a feather' dinners: small groups of participants will dine at restaurants on Saturday evening with a course instructor for spirited discussion on selected topics French-style gourmet honey tasting: honeys from around the world Speakers: Prof. May Berenbaum, Dept of Entomology, Univ. Illinois Dr. Jeff Pettis, Apiculturist, USDA-ARS Bee Research Lab, Beltsville MD Prof. Gene Robinson, Dept of Entomology, Univ. Illinois Mr. Jerry Hayes, Columnist, American Bee Journal Members of the Univ. Illinois Bee Research Facility Staff Location: Univ. Illinois Illini Union and Bee Research Facility, Urbana IL in East-Central Illinois Fee: $75 includes course materials, refreshments, & honey tasting Lodging: Group rates available at the Hampton Inn for $60 single/$69 double room or air-conditioned dormitory rooms for $20/night (217-337-1100) ask for Group Code "BEE" Dates&Times: Begins 8:00 AM Saturday, July 29 and ends 1:00 PM Sunday, July 30 Registration: Phone: (217) 333-2910 FAX: (217) 244-3499 e-mail: entowork@life.uiuc.edu Or write/send your name, address, email, and registration fee to: Beekeeping Short Course, c/o Univ. Illinois, Dept. Entomology, 320 Morrill Hall, 505 S. Goodwin Ave., Urbana, IL 61801 LIMITED TO 50 PARTICIPANTS, SO REGISTER EARLY! Sponsored by: Dept. of Entomology and School of Life Sciences, Univ. Illinois Center for Economic Entomology, Illinois Natural History Survey Cooperative Extension Service, Univ. Illinois With generous support from Dadant & Sons and Wellmark International (Apistan) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:35:31 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Northeast report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bright yellow pollen coming into the hives today . SE CT USA. A week ago they were haunting sawdust piles. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:23:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Luis Rommel Beutelspacher Organization: Maya Honey S.A. de C.V. Subject: Nosema Lab MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, I need to have a few bee samples analized for Nosema by a Recognized = Laboratory in the US. I will appreciate any help trying to locate such a lab. Thanks. Please reply to my e-mail address below. Greetings from Mexico, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Luis Rommel Beutelspacher Maya Honey S.A. de C.V. (\ Calle 17 N=BA 225 x 28 y 30 -{|||8- Col. Garc=EDa Giner=E9s (/ M=E9rida, Yucat=E1n, M=E9xico. Tel/Fax (99) 200818 rommel@mayahoney.com http://www.mayahoney.com ICQ# 55264986 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:40:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Northeast report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Selkirk (12 miles south of Albany, NY) bright yellow pollen coming into the hives yesterday. Round Lake (20 miles north of Albany, NY) they were haunting sawdust piles. Front just went through and we'll be back to the reality of the season where 40dF is a treat! Aaron Morris - thinking I'm glad I put on pollen patties last week! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:19:22 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: The Politics of Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 3/9/00 10:43:55 AM, allend@INTERNODE.NET writes: << I'd prefer not to speak in wild sweeping generalities. I'd sure like to see some data and specific examples to back up the rather general and unsubstantiated claims being made. >> On the competition topic, you back up your claims with "The simple fact," "I have understood," "This is particularly true," and "We don't need refereed research to know that." This seems like bait and switch to start a discussion in "plain speak" and then raise the standards to hard scientific evidence. But there is another aspect of this topic that disturbs me greatly, and that could get lost in the debate over who has the "hardest" science of all, and that is the political behavior of native pollinator advocates. In "The Forgotten Pollinators," Nabhan and Buchmann talk of "blond" honey bees conquering, colonizing and eliminating the natives, "reshaping the land in the Image of Northern Europe." This is the language of political theater and can be dismissed as such, but the metaphor will be effective in pushing and pulling people emotionally into making snap judgements based on their emotions, not the hard science. The language also contains an ugly slur against beekeepers that places them in the same boat with racists, colonialists, and other purveyors of reprehensible philosophies, while claiming the moral high ground for the champions of native pollinators. If a beekeeper stands up in front of an audience and raises reasonable objections, that beekeep already has two emotional strikes against him due to this just-below-belt political imagery. And how will your conservation-minded and environmentally conscious customers respond to this argument? They may hear good points raised on both sides—and drop honey off the shopping list just to be sure. The authors imply a political dychotomy between conservationists and environmentalists on one side, and beekeepers as agents of environmental degradation on the other. They liken the rancor in Australia to that of EarthFirst and the Wise Use movement here in the US. The native pollinator advocates are hoping to launch a "social movement." Nabhan and Buchmann "prophesy" that someday beekeeping will be viewed with as much disdain as cowboying (whatever that is). My point is, this is not an argument that is going to be carried on hard science alone. Tactics of persuasion are needed and another good political metaphor, and that's why I say the honey bee is not a colonizer but an immigrant, hard working and productive, taking its foragely largely from introduced species, with some exceptions. The native pollinator advocates are engaging in a form of immigrant bashing, a clever juxtaposition of national chauvinism with conservationism and environmentalism. The honey bee is an easy target because its appearance is different enough that even a child can distinguish it from the other pollinators (native and introduced) in the garden. Their argument, like most political arguments, is riddled with sloppy references, contradictions and lies by omission. John Mitchell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:30:10 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Bee and Mite Conference 2000 - reminder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a reminder to get your reservations in early for the Tucson (Arizona) International Conference, to be held April 10-12, 2000 near and at the BeeLab. see info at http://198.22.133.109/conference/CONF2000.htm or call Diana Ward-Medley at (520) 670-6380, Extension 103 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:32:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Harned Subject: Re: Northeast report (Southern New Hampshire) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seacoast region (North Hampton) of New Hampshire. We have had a couple days into the low 60's. Today broke 70 for the first time this spring. Yellow/green and bright orange pollen coming in at noon. I think there were actually 3 sources. It is the first pollen I have seen this year. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:00:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Akin Subject: Northeast report--Boston Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here at the Arnold Arboretum we are blessed with a multitude of plant material. Today it's 68 and the silver maples, daphne willows, and snowdrops were all being visited by our bees; bright orange pollen from the snowdrops and light yellow pollen from the maples and willows were coming in fast and furious. Witch hazels were blooming last week and some still are. Last week was a little too chilly for the bees to find them though. Red maples are probably next; Cornus officinalis and Cornus mas (the cornelian cherry dogwoods) are swelling. Spring is here! Tom Akin Thomas J. Akin Internship Coordinator/Ass't Grounds Superintendent The Arnold Arboretum of Harvard University tel 617-524-1718 x112 fax 617-524-1418 Visit our web site at http://arboretum.harvard.edu/LC/LC080.HTM ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:32:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Nosema Lab MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Surf to: http://sun.ars-grin.gov/ars/Beltsville/barc/psi/brl/directs.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:23:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: workerbee@HONEYROAD.COM Organization: My Beekeeping Homepage: http://www.honeyroad.com Subject: Re: Northeast report (Southern New Hampshire) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not for Much Longer, getting 5-6 inches of snow today in northern Ontario and it's heading your way. Temperatures are supposed to drop below freezing until next week. Allen B ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:21:25 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: Bumble bees in Australia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To reply to Trevor Weatherhead's request for the two references to bumble bees in Australia, they are: Buttermore, R. E. 1997: Observations of successful Bombus terrestris (L.) (Hymenoptera: Apidae) colonies in southern Tasmania. Australian Journal of Entomology 36: 251-254. Rayment, T. 1935: A cluster of bees. Endeavor Press, Sydney, 752 pp. Regards, Barry Donovan, New Zealand. ________ CAUTION: The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential. If you read this message and you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. Any opinions or views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of their employer. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:48:40 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: feral bees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/9/00 11:03:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bill@CVUMAIL.CVU.CSSD.K12.VT.US writes: > Are they gone? Are they going? Are they just hiding Most of the feral bees are colonies from the swarms you missed last year and the year before. They seem to hang in there for 2 years or so and then the varroa takes em out. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:06:38 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Shook swarming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Shook swarming, this picturesque title is applied to a method said to be widely used in the U.S.A.", writes Snelgrove in 'Swarming Its Control & Prevention'. Is it I ask? I believe this method is being tried in the UK not as a swarm control method but as a means of reducing disease, especially European Foul Brood, by removing the pathogens in the old comb. Now that sounds like a good idea to me, especially as I am informed that given a new home the colony drops to a lower gear and then roars ahead, producing a good crop by the end of the season. But have beekeepers the other side of the water experience of this method of swarm control, I have never seen it mentioned in these pages? Ken Hoare (Living in Shropshire, a utopia where bee's don't swarm!!!) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:31:47 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: FYI: Posted in Gardening Forums MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just read of a neighbor who advised a backyard fruit grower to spray peaches while the fruit is in blossom. This is a reminder to all backyard growers NOT to spray insecticides during bloom. Reasons: 1. It is illegal. Read the label directions, under Environmental Hazards, you see instructions not to apply while bees are visiting the spray area. You can be prosecuted, fined for violations. 2. It bites the hand that feeds you. Killing your pollinators is not an intelligent practice, especially in light of the tremendous pollinator population decline within this generation. 3. You can be liable for damages to a beekeeper neighbor. Just as you cannot poison a stream, shoot songbirds, or foul the air, your rights are limited to some extent for the greater good of all. PROTECT OUR POLLINATORS Apply insecticides, if needed, before blossoms open, and after full petal fall. Don't let clover or dandelions, or any other weed blossom pick up insecticides as you spray. Mow the blossoms off before spraying. The bees cannot speak for themselves, so I speak for them. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 20:42:29 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: FW: "No Bees, No Peace" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: JMitc1014 [mailto:jmitc1014@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 3:49 PM To: sci.agriculture.beekeeping@list.deja.com Subject: "No Bees, No Peace" Perhaps there's some tactics here that might be useful for beekeepers here in America on Capitol Hill. I especially like the tactic of blocking roads with empty beehives. Who wants to walk up to a beehive and try to figure out if there are bees in it or not? (Except of course a beekeeper). SUNDAY TELEGRAPH(LONDON) HEADLINE: Beekeepers threaten holy war over thefts BYLINE: By Tim Gross THE humble bee has become the latest irritant in the Middle East peace negotiations as Holy Land beekeepers protest about a big increase in thefts of hives. In what is being called the Beekeepers' Revolt, Israeli apiarists have mounted noisy demonstrations at West Bank checkpoints to demand that the authorities on both sides clamp down on thefts by Palestinians. Wearing their white protective overalls, netting masks and gloves, protesters have held up placards reading, "No bees - no peace", and "Israel, land of milk and honey", with the word "honey" crossed out. They are now threatening to put a sting into their protests by releasing swarms of bees at the crossing points if their calls go unheeded. "We're talking about millions of bees worth hundreds of thousands of shekels," said one beekeeper, Levi Schneerson, who has lost half his hives in recent months. "Our livelihoods are at stake. If this goes on, I won't be able to feed my family." Beehives are not difficult to steal: they can fit easily into a car and be hidden from sight. About 2,600 of Israel's 80,000 hives were stolen last year, and 80 per cent of those ended up in the West Bank, according to Israeli officials. "There is a new mafia trade in bees," said Shachar Teneh, the head of the Israel Beekeepers' Association. The issue is particularly sensitive given the important role that bees and honey have played in Jewish history. According to the Bible, God told the Israelites that he would bring them to a land "flowing with milk and honey". Jewish tradition has it that Samson, the tribal leader responsible for defeating the Philistines, killed a lion and returned a few days later to find that a swarm of bees had settled in its mouth. His remark, "Out of the strength came forth sweetness", is still used as an idiom by many Israelis. The importance of the bee is no less symbolic for the Palestinians: a whole chapter of the Koran is devoted to the insect. "Honey is a holy product of the Holy Land," said Osman Arafat, a leading West Bank apiarist. "There is no such thing as a Palestinian or Israeli bee. They fly freely over checkpoints - linking us through nature." Israelis say that bees are not the only possessions to be purloined in the past few years since the Jewish state began handing back occupied territory. Other property - particularly cars - has been stolen, and the owners complain that Palestinian police have done little to stop the rising tide, and that, sometimes, the officers have themselves been involved. Past Palestinian-Israeli agreements are supposed to contain measures for combating crime. But Palestinian officials have said that they want fresh concessions on other fronts in return for more co-operation in this area. When beekeepers complained this month to Hekmet Zaid, the Palestinian agriculture minister, he told them that he would deal with the problem only if their authorities agreed to allow Palestinian strawberries to be sold in Israel. The Israelis say this is not possible because the Palestinians use pesticides banned in the Jewish state. Shaul Yarkoni, a 54-year-old beekeeper from a collective farm near Rehovot, south of Tel Aviv, said he hoped that others working in agriculture would join the Beekeepers' Revolt. "We're calling on the cattlemen, the chicken raisers and the orchard owners to come out with us," he said. So far, the beekeepers have blocked roads near checkpoints with burning tyres and empty beehives. But if the authorities do not act, they are threatening to bring full hives to their demonstrations, and release thousands of bees. Border guards and the many people who regularly use the crossing points shudder at the prospect. "Everyone will scatter, except us," said Mr Yarkoni. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:17:01 -0300 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home sweet home Subject: Re: Shook swarming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken Hoare wrote: > But have beekeepers the other side of the water experience of this method of > swarm control, I have never seen it mentioned in these pages? it's on http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/snelgrove.html > I have never seen it mentioned in these pages? For those who missed the initial description of Snelgrove's techniques, send a single line of mail to: LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu that reads: GETPOST BEE-L 17749 regards, jant -- Jan Tempelman Kerkstraat 53 NL 7471 AG Goor xx.31.(0)547.275788 http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 16:22:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Shook swarming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken Hoare asks: is shook swarming common in the US? What is common? One out of five beekeepers? One of ten? I know of two beekeepers who have done shook swarming during the past five years. My guess is that something like 20% of beekeepers try shook swarming at least once. Shook swarming is promoted as a means of creating an artificial swarm, thereby "controlling" swarming. When it is used, I believe it is primarily for comb honey production. Today we understand how to control the swarm impulse better than was the case in Snelgrove's day. I am not aware of any established producer of comb honey who regularly uses shook swarming. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 18:55:22 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Sharratt Subject: Re: Fluon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fluon is used in the production of non stick pans, it is based on a material called Polytetrafluoroethylene or P.T.F.E. It has excellent release properties, but I think it may be quite hard to apply to hive legs or stand. I intend experimenting this year with P.T.F.E. tape (plumbers use it on compression joints) by simply wrapping it around the legs of the hive it is also inexpensive. Regards Alan Sharratt ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 10:06:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Shilliff Subject: Better way machine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone had actual experience with the Better Way vinegar fogger machine that they advertise in the bee journals?Seems like a good way to get off the chemical merry-go-round for killing mites if this gadget really works. Nick Shilliff-upstate NY USA-No pollen yet-Back to winter! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:28:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JCooper Subject: Honey Bee Brood Diseases by Henrik Hansen, Search For MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Some years back, I got copies of Henrik Hansen’s _Honey Bee Brood Diseases__, (Roger Morse, Editor, English Edition), by way of a Canadian beekeepers’ association. As I remember, my check was mailed to a Vancouver address. Can someone tell me if this manual is still in print or if a revised edition has been issued? Original ISBN number is 87-87905 04 3 and coverage of the tracheal mite, Acarapis woodi, is remarkably absent. If there is a revised edition, where might it be purchased? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:57:10 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: eral bees? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bill Mares asked: >Are they gone? Are they going? Are they just hiding? I've read various >assertions about the varroa-induced destruction of all-most-many-some >feral ("wild") bees on this country. > Does anyone have any better data than these gut feels? Thanks On that point, one might read my letter on page 658 in the September issue of the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ******************************************************************** * * "When we meet a fact which contradicts a prevailing theory, * we must accept that fact and abandon the theory, even when * the theory is supported by great names and generally * accepted." * * Claude Bernard --- 1865 ******************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:10:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Missing Journals In-Reply-To: <200002260501.AAA04630@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Greetings I work at the Dyce Honeybee Lab at Cornell University. We have a very complete collection of the American Bee Journal (1900 on) and Gleanings in Bee Culture (1873 on). They are leather bound and in good shape. However, due to a variety of reasons, the binding has not been done since 1995. It is my job to get them bound and up to date. I am missing the following issues (please send *only* these issues). If you have these and wish to help, please send them to me. I am sorry, but I cannot pay postage. Peter Borst Entomology Department Comstock Hall Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853 Bee Culture 95 missing all except Nov 96 missing all except Nov 97 missing July 98 missing Dec 99 missing Mar, Oct, Dec American Bee Journal 95 missing all 96 missing all except Jan 97 missing Nov 98 missing Sep 99 missing Jan, Feb, Aug, Dec PB ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:11:15 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Rer: Bees on TV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/4/00 6:50:03 AM, JMitc1014@AOL.COM writes: << On Turner Broadcasting Wildlife Adventures this March.... "Pollinators in Peril" Host: Peter Fonda The show airs (Eastern times): Wednesday, March 21, 2000 10:05pm-11:05pm>> According to my calendar March 21st is a Tuesday, not a Wednesday. I called the station and checked that it would indeed be airing on Tuesday. The show should be a bellwether for whether billion-dollar Ted (see below) has been duped by native pollinator advocates into believing honey bees are a threat to native pollinating insects. As a conservationist, environmentalist and beekeeper, I'm bothered by this. Turner seems to equate 'saving the natural world' with making the ecosystem "as natural as possible." My hope that this show will treat immigrant honey bees fairly and impartially is going down. I wonder if Ted knows about all those non-native bumble bees, alfalfa leaf-cutter bees and Orchard Masons that are being shipped around the country? Or how about that new pollinator, the Japanese horn-faced beetle (Osmia cornifrons), that was introduced by a USDA scientist (Suzanne Batra) in the early1990s? Sure didn't hear about it from "The Forgotten Pollinator" crowd, who have arbitrarily and selectively chosen to villify honey bees. Omaha World-Herald, December 27, 1998, Sunday SUNRISE EDITION SECTION: ;NEWS; Pg. 5b HEADLINE: Turner Conservation Work Spans Nation BYLINE: Julie Anderson SOURCE: World-Herald Staff Writer Many Nebraskans are familiar with Ted Turner's efforts to return American bison to the Nebraska Sand Hills - of which he owns a little more than 100,000 acres - and on some of the other Western land he has acquired. But an article in the January-February issue of Audubon magazine tells just how broad his conservation interests have become. They range from establishing a captive breeding program for Mexican wolves on his New Mexico property and restoring endangered red-cockaded woodpeckers on his Florida plantation to trying to eradicate invasive, non-native weeds and addressing declines in pollinators such as bees, bats and butterflies. In Nebraska, Turner is helping the Nebraska Game and Parks Commission re-establish blowout penstemon, a native plant on the state's endangered species list. Many of Turner's efforts are controversial. But there is no doubt that a man who can afford to give $ 1 billion to the United Nations can try pretty much anything he wants. "All we're doing is allowing the ecosystem to be as natural as possible," Turner said in the article. "We're trying to replace as many missing pieces to the environment as we can: plants or animals now missing because of overhunting or habitat destruction or whatever. We're trying to save what we can of the natural world." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:15:40 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Warmest winter on record MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scientists: Winter Warmest on Record By BRIGITTE GREENBERG The Associated Press WASHINGTON (March 12) - This winter has been the warmest on record since the government began keeping weather statistics 105 years ago, according to scientists at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Analyzing data from NOAA's National Climatic Data Center in Asheville, N.C., researchers said that seasonal temperatures from December to February averaged 38.4 degrees Fahrenheit, or 0.6 degrees warmer than the previous record, which was set just last year. The scientists attributed the warm temperatures to La Nina, a weather phenomenon related to cooler than normal temperatures in the eastern and central Pacific Ocean. The researchers couldn't say Saturday whether the warm winter had any link to a ``greenhouse effect'' caused by pollution into the atmosphere. In fact, the last three winters have been the warmest on record in the United States - a pattern of warm winters established in 1980, said the scientists. Since then, 67 percent of the winter seasons have been warmer than the long-term average. Many states from the northern Plains to New England set records for the latest date of their first seasonal snowfall, latest date without a temperature below freezing, longest snow-free period, or longest period between subzero temperatures. However, NOAA spokesman Greg Hernandez said the specific state-by-state temperature data would not be available until Monday. Only the general trends for the country were immediately available, he said. It has been an overall warm winter, despite a brief and sudden cold spell in the Northeast that in part caused severe shortages of heating oil and soaring prices in late January and early February in that region of the country. Researchers said that while eastern states experienced heavy snowfall in the last two weeks of January, the cold air that came with it was short-lived. Hundreds of daily maximum temperature records were broken across the country in February. Many spots from the Northern Plains to New York set or tied their all-time maximum temperature records for the month. Every state in the continental U.S. was warmer than its long-term average, with 21 states from California to the Midwest ranking well above normal. Oklahoma experienced its warmest winter on record, and Kansas, Nebraska, and Montana experienced their second warmest. This winter also has been a dry one, the 16th driest on record. Louisiana reported its driest winter on record, and Alabama and Mississippi their third driest. New Mexico and Arizona also experienced much below normal rainfall for the season. The only regions experiencing a wet season were the northern and central Rockies and a zone from the central Plains eastward to the Ohio Valley. Worldwide, temperatures were the sixth warmest on record, following the two warmest winter seasons set in the past two years, the NOAA analysis said. Globally, precipitation was above average through central and northern Europe, most of South America, southern Africa, Southeast Asia, the Pacific Islands, and Australia. Heavy downpours resulted in catastrophic flooding in Mozambique and other countries in southeastern Africa. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:45:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: reno Subject: Chinese Chestnut as forage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is the Chinese Chestnut tree a good source of pollen and nectar? I could not find it listed any reference in the books, only the Horse Chestnut. Thanks Will Lewis.. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:18:52 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: steven.turner@ZBEE.COM Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: Prevent a swarm and re-queening the hive at the same time Bromley apiary club last month had the pleasure of a talk given by Nick Withers from Kent (UK) on his swarm control methods. Nick has put a lot of work into a web site version with pictures and illustrations. Nick's excellent work has now been published on Kentbee.com. To learn how to prevent a swarm and re-queening the hive at the same time visit http://www.kentbee.com Info for England KENT members A reminder that Dr Deulah Cullen lecture at Bromley apiary club house is on the 21st of March 7.30pm (not the 18th as published in Kentish Bee) Regards Steven Turner st@zbee.com .. Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 08:51:31 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Shook swarming In-Reply-To: <200003101532.KAA26443@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <200003101532.KAA26443@listserv.albany.edu>, Ken Hoare writes >"Shook swarming, ................. >Is it I ask? I believe this method is being tried in the UK not as a swarm >control method but as a means of reducing disease, especially European Foul >Brood, by removing the pathogens in the old comb. We have tried this on a few occassions, indeed it was discussed here some time ago, I reckon about a year or so back. Sounds fine in theory, and is quite easy to do, but it has one huge drawback. The stress causes latent nosema to kick in badly, which does not appear initially to have caused a problem. It only really manifests itself in the winter ahead, when losses are sharply higher in the colonies from shook swarms than from normal splits. The last experiment we did on this was about 5 years ago, when we made up an apiary of 20 shook swarms and 20 normal splits. All was fine throughout the season, and the swarms roared ahead, but were soon caught up on by the splits. (It is just the same as for another version of the same, packages. They roar off quickly but then drop back as attrition accounts for adult bees before the first brood hatches.) In the winter which followed we lost most (16 out of 20 if I recall correctly) of the shaken swarms, and the rest of them were small, but only two of the conventional splits died, and most of the survivors were strong. I can almost hear the chorus of 'why didn't you feed fumidil'. Two reasons. In our part of Scotland your window for doing this operation inevitably coincides with a honey flow and supers are on, and secondly we really wanted to see how it affected the bees (hence the decent scale experiment). Thus we did not treat them in autumn either. I am very interested in the link between nosema and stress, as it is undoubtedly the problem most economically damaging factor to our enterprise, resulting in too many small colonies in spring (and a fair number of empty ones). In these days of mite problems, and hysteria about resistant mites etc, everyone seems too keen to blame the new(ish) pest for all their ills, and many forget about this old favourite which is still lurking out there. I have no doubt that, in areas without a pronounced winter, shook swarming will be fine, and in many other areas a spring and autumn fumidil treatment for at least the first whole year will help. After 50 years of experience between my father and I of experimentations with it we can safely say it is not an option we will take again without a seriously good reason. I know this does not answer your question about the practice of this method in the US (although the package trade is an equivalent) but our experience is probably slightly more relevant to English conditions. If you get a hold of the directions for dealing with packages, particularly the bit about feeding fumidil on hiving, you should be able to do this with fewer troubles than the untreated way. Murray -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:05:23 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Turner=92s=20anti-honeybee=20agenda=20sets=20off=20?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?alarms?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Turner’s anti-honey bee agenda sets off alarms Ted Turner, who gives more than $25 million annually to organizations professing to have conservationist goals, announced in January 1999 that his foundation was aligning itself with the Pollinator Conservation Consortium at the Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum. The organization was formed and is run by the authors of “The Forgotten Pollinators.” The book calls honey bees conquerors and colonizers and a serious threat to native pollinators, and implies strongly that beekeeping is an environmentally destructive practice that should be discouraged and banned. The first product of this alliance hits the (US) airwaves March 21st with “Pollinators in Peril,” hosted by Peter Fonda. Check your guide for local listings. Writer Donovan Webster recounts his meeting with Turner and some of his top managers in the January/February 1999 issue of Audubon magazine: “Finally, Turner speaks of his newest baby, which is being rolled out in 1999. It’s a pollinator project, which addresses the population drop of bees, bats, butterflies, hummingbirds, and other animals that fertilize the fruit and vegetable plants that constitute one-third of the world’s diet. Phillips (Mike Phillips, a top manager at the Turner Foundation) later explains how the program started: “Ted was walking one day at Avalon, his plantation in Florida, and he noticed there weren’t any bees.” At the next Turner Foundation meeting in Atlanta, Turner pointed out his observation to Phillips and Bahouth (Peter Bahouth, another official of the Turner Foundation). Bahouth, as it happened, had recently read the book The Forgotten Pollinators, by Stephen Buchmann and Gary Paul Nabhan, and had already passed it along to Beau Turner (Turner’s son, who is a wildlife biologist). Phillips says the book inspired Turner to take direct action on the issue of native pollinators. “It’s one of our biggest pushes for 1999.” The article’s author sums up Turner’ conservation agenda: “Starting on his own properties—more than a million acres on 13 different ranches and plantations in North and South America....He wants to return his land, acre by acre, species by species—to the way it was before white settlers arrived.” Turner has also turned loose a small army of biologists on his land to monitor some of his pet peeves, one of which is “introduced bees” Again, from Webster’s interview: “Don’t get me wrong, we’re not here to give every biologist in North America a job,” Phillips says. “But we may need occasional help checking out migratory populations, identifying threats, and testing how introduced bees affect resident populations. Some of this can be gathered through a network, and we’ve got folks at the Interior Department interested. We’re also hoping other private landowners will look into these types of issues.” Turner’s efforts don’t end at the US border. He is active in South America, where he has sustantial land holdings. Turner’s agenda also has a lot of clout at the United Nations, which recently received a $1 billion gift from the media mogul. The United Nations is helping—through the UN Environmental Programme—formulate a global Convention on Biological Diversity. Working documents from this group mention pollinators numerous times as being threatened, with much of the science underpinning the recommendations having been contributed by unnamed US researchers (more on this later). The convention will recommend “legal instruments” and “incentive programs” for treaty nations to enact internally to protect biodiversity. John Mitchell ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:53:04 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Better way machine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why do you say "off the chemical merry-go-round"? After all, vinegar is diluted acetic acid. Many, many years ago there were some people that believed anything that occurred in nature was NOT a chemical; but if it were man-made, it was it was a "chemical". They were surprised to learn that their digestive juices contained HYDROCHLORIC ACID, that is used in higher strengths to wash down concrete walls. Allow the bee researchers and bee scientists to find the remedies for our problems. After all, their interest is in SAVING THE BEE and their training (schooling) tells them what can be used and what dare not be used. Since President Clinton deleted all research money for honey bees during his first year in office, our research scientists can take all the money we beekeepers can give them to continue research. This is why EAS, ABF, and the NHB all have set up funds to aid our scientists. Have you contributed? George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:14:35 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Honey Bee Brood Diseases by Henrik Hansen, Search For MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mike Moriarty has some excellent photographs from the book at http://www.kohala.net/bees/#anchor400987 Apparently he contact the author who was very gracious and pleased to have the photographs more widely distributed - a refreshing attitude. Hansen's book is one of the best for visual identification of bee pests and diseases... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:54:26 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: Re: Better way machine In-Reply-To: <200003132053.PAA24400@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit George - > Allow the bee researchers and bee scientists to find the remedies for our > problems. > After all, their interest is in SAVING THE BEE and their training (schooling) > tells > them what can be used and what dare not be used. Should not your emphasis be on the word "TRAINING" rather than "saving the bee"? I don't know of a single beekeeper who's interest is in destroying the bee, we all want it to survive. There is plenty in the archives over the differing views that are held about what role researchers and scientists should play when it comes to "remedies" so I'll not get into it here, except to say, there are quite a few people who are not "researchers and bee scientists", working on remedies to deal with the honeybee mites. Leaving it up to any one group of people is often a less than best way to deal with something and in no way guarantees quality or rightness. There should be a balance of both. Regards, Barry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:29:41 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: eral bees? Comments: To: Adrian Wenner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I finally have permission to resample some of my (very isolated) western and southwestern Arizona feral bee areas, which I scanned in advance of the "dreaded" AHB from 1988-1994, and should have a few facts by mid-April. Who knows what lurks in the depths of the desert ?? - Stay tuned. - John Edwards - address below Adrian Wenner wrote: > Bill Mares asked: > > >Are they gone? Are they going? Are they just hiding? > > Does anyone have any better data than these gut feels? Thanks > > On that point, one might read my letter on page 658 in the September > issue of the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL. > * "When we meet a fact which contradicts a prevailing theory, > * we must accept that fact and abandon the theory, ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician "Feral Bee Tracker and AHB Identifier" Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona 85719 http://198.22.133.109/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:19:29 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: A report of native Australian bumblebees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Recently on this list, several authoritative sources with references weighed in to say bumblebees have not been established in Australia. Nobody has ever claimed that there were native Australian bumblebees. Until now. According th Gary Nabhan and Stephen Buchmann in "The Forgotten Pollinators" (1996) native Australian bumblebees (along with carpenter bees) do a better job of pollinating Australian flora than honey bees do. I will quote this a little long because I don't want anybody to say I'm taking this out of context: "From an ecological and evolutionary perspective, honeybees may pose a hitherto unsuspected threat to life in the bush. Not only do they displace native pollinators—both insects and vertebrates—from flowers but they do so without effectvely triggering the pollination mechanisms of the crop plants or native flowers they visit. A significant portion of the Australian flora requires vibratory pollen harvesting to set fruit—buzz pollination—and honeybees are incapable of this feat. Blooms of deadly nightshade blossoms and native bush tomatoes all require other pollinators to effect fruit set. Whereas bumblebees and carpenter bees do an excellent job and routinely set large fruits full of seeds, honeybees leave these plants unfertilized. Although honeybees do not use floral sonication to harvest pollen, they are often quite abundant on Australian blossoms with pored anthers and must account for some pollination and seed set." (Pg. 178) Am I reading this correctly as saying that native Australian bumblebees routinely set large fruits full of seeds in Australia? John Mitchell ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:38:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Language - not language Comments: cc: jbarthell@ucok.edu, ponerine@dakotacom.net, dbsmunro@nus.edu.sg, marcum@westmont.edu, greenber@WSUHUB.UC.TWSU.EDU, hamilton@PBSSITE.COM, Dadant@dadant.com, LJW2974@ACS.TAMU.EDU, cherubini@MINDSPRING.COM, berwick@ai.mit.edu, don_smf@hotmail.com, harrington-wells@utulsa.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Waggle Dance of Bees - A Symptom, Not a Signal? We have had a lively exchange this past couple of months on BEE-L about how recruited bees find a new source of food or how swarms manage to move to a new location. The swarm relocation problem allows us to assess the relative credibility of the odor-search and bee language hypotheses. As we all know, when a swarm issues from a hive it most often clusters on a nearby object (e.g., tree, bush). Experienced foragers inspect potential nest cavities, return to the swarm cluster, and execute waggle dances. Eventually, the swarm takes flight and travels to only one of the prospective sites. Consider first an odor-search model. Scout bee activity actually occurs not only on the swarm cluster but also is quite frenzied at each potential nest cavity. Those of us fortunate to have watched that behavior at a potential destination know that scouts repeatedly expose their Nasanov glands, both inside and outside those cavities. Some of them also execute waggle dances on flat surfaces near cavity entrances. How does the swarm eventually manage to move to only one of those cavities instead of splitting, with some portion going to each of the sites? An explanation that relies solely on odor is very simple. With experienced bees flying back and forth between cluster and likely sites, one of those sites becomes easier to locate for other recruited bees from the swarm cluster. They, then, also expose their Nasanov glands at such a site. That odor, drifting downwind, provides a "beacon" for newly recruited bees. Searching bees can execute a zigzag flight upwind once they get within the downwind odor plume. In time, the easiest of the sites to find has many more bees exposing their glands at that site than at the other sites, etc. ("positive feedback"). Eventually, the less favored sites get no new recruits at all and are abandoned. When many bees frequent a single site, and weather permits, all scout bees from that site return to the cluster, the swarm cluster disbands, and the swarm is led through the air by the few hundred bees who know the way. The experienced travellers do so by opening their Nasanov glands as they repeatedly fly out ahead of the swirling bees in flight. One can find a partial description of this process in the following article: Wenner, A.M. 1992. "Swarm movement: A mystery explained." AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL. 132 (1):27-31. James Cowan, a perceptive beekeeper in Aberdeen, Washington, later provided additional information in his letter to me of 13 January 1992, as well as in his letter on page 819 in the last November issue of ABJ and in another letter to me this month. How much did research and writing of that article cost beekeepers? Nothing. ********* Consider now the bee language explanation for the same event. In his posting of January 15th, Peter Borst emphasized "decision making" by dancing bees on the swarm cluster and included the following comment from one of the publications (*3) that he referenced: ********* "The main focus of the article is on how a decision is made as to which site a swarm will go to among the several choices located by the scouts. The way in which the bees communicate information about the site is as follows:" 'Scout bees fly throughout the surrounding countryside, searching for new nest-site cavities. When a scout returns after inspecting a high-quality cavity, she performs waggle dances which encode the distance and direction to the site. Most bees that danced for nest sites also followed the dances of other scouts.' The method of communicating information is similar to that used by foraging bees to recruit more foragers to a productive site." ********* On February 1st, he expanded on the theme of "animal consciousness," a belief system embraced by Donald Griffin (ANIMAL THINKING) and also by Richard Dawkins in his popular works. Can scout bees "build consensus" on the surface of the swarm cluster? Some folks think so, as in a recent publications by a group at Cornell: "Group decision making in swarms of honey bees" (1999. BEHAVIORAL ECOLOGY AND SOCIOBIOLOGY. 45:19-31). In the authors' words, it was a "...study that renews the analysis of honey bee swarms as decision-making units." Their interpretation of what happens among scout bees on the swarm cluster (in part): "...in consensus building ... bees that dance initially for a non-chosen site [tend] to cease their dancing altogether, not to switch their dancing to the chosen site..... even though a swarm is composed of tiny-brained bees it is able to use the additive weighted strategy of decision making because it distributes among many bees the task of evaluating numerous potential sites and the task of selecting one particular site for its new home." ********* Nowhere in that publication could I find any mention of the very visible Nasanov gland exposure at the prospective cavities, even though they wrote: "Once the scouts have completed their deliberations, they stimulate the other members of the swarm to launch into flight and then steer them to the chosen site (...Michener 1974; Seeley 1982; Winston 1987)" Nor could I find any mention of the wind direction that prevailed during their experiments. Why did they not mention my 1992 article that appeared in the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL (an article that includes much of the information at the beginning of this posting)? I strongly suspect it was because they do not want to draw attention to any element that does not fit with their favored hypothesis, the notion of bee language. ********* My overall interpretation of all of the above? Swarm movement depends on Nasanov odor produced by scout bees. That odor drifts downwind from suitable cavities and also enables scout bees to lead swarms through the air to the new site. The dance maneuvers on the surface of the swarm clusters and at the new site are thus merely a SYMPTOM (not a cause) of what is happening during swarm relocation. Julian O'Dea hinted as much when he termed the dance "idiothetic behaviour" in this extended exchange --- as Rosin did recently in the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL (p. 98 in the February issue). Bee language proponents thus concentrate too much on a study of the symptom (i.e., waggle dance), rather than on the total event of swarm movement. They ask us to believe that a group of scout bees can form a consensus on the surface of the swarm cluster, when a simple Nasanov (and odor-search) explanation for swarm movement is sufficient. Having made the comparison, we can ask: Which is the more credible hypothesis? And how much did the complicated research on "decision making" cost the public? We cannot know for sure, but that Cornell research was supported by grants from both the National Science Foundation and the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Did taxpayers get their money's worth? That is for all of us to decide. Swarming season is upon us. Hopefully, some of you may find time to repeat James Cowans' careful observations (as covered in his November letter and in his letters to me directly). Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ******************************************************************** * * "When we meet a fact which contradicts a prevailing theory, * we must accept that fact and abandon the theory, even when * the theory is supported by great names and generally * accepted." * * Claude Bernard --- 1865 ******************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:24:49 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Scramble competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The USDA entomologist who released the Japanese horn-faced bee (not beetle) (Osmia cornifrons) was Suzanne Batra. Griffin (1999) writes, "Her passion for the attributes of this pretty little bee has resulted in its introduction to many parts of the country." In their book, "The Forgotten Pollinators", Buchmann and Nabhan introduce the concept of scramble competition among bees, and say such competition disrupts many plant/pollinator relationships. They isolate the honey bee for its "fearsome" foraging force and the efficiency of its dance communication language. But I've identified now repeated introductions of non-native pollinators in North America — bumble bees outside their native range, alfalfa leafcutter bees from Eurasia, Orchard Masons outside their range, the Japanese horn-faced bee. The contribution of any individual insect may be minimized by some, but cumulatively, doesn't the "Forgotten Polinator" theory predict a significant amount of scramble competition from these introductions? Most of these introductions have been with the assistance and help of pollination biologists and USDA entomologists. It seems that if we are to buy into Buchmann and Nabhan's theory and the advocacy that is growing behind it to make the ecosystem "as natural as possible," scientists are going to be radically limited in their ability to engage in such practices in the future, by regulation, lack of public interest and loss of research money. Griffin writes further about the Japanese horn-faced bee: "It competes with Orchard Masons for nesting sites. Because it is about two-thirds the size of the Orchard Mason it can utilize smaller nesting holes, but is quite happy with a 5/16-inch hole favored by the Orchard Mason. The author knows of a bee fancier in the Pacific Northwest who introduced O. cornifrons into his urban lot. They share his Orchard Mason nesting blocks and he can no longer keep them separate. They co-exist nicely." When non-native honey bees are described in relation to native bees by Buch mann and Nabhan, honey bees are denounced as "exotic interlopers" and for driving other bees out of their native habitat. Yet when other non-native insects like the Japanese horn-faced bee are described as successfully competing with natives by other writers, the alternative pollinators are said to "co-exist nicely" with the natives. It seems to me that how you character an alternative pollinator's effect on the natives is, to a degree, determined by whether or not you have copped an attitude about the insect. John Mitchell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:16:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Frames and ladder? comb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Examining frames of comb left over from last year in preparation for the coming season revealed something odd. Split bottom and solid grooved bottom frames were used interchangeably. The solid bottoms are very slightly wider. There is a striking lack of excess wax stucture of any sort under the split bottoms when compared to the solid bottoms, which are more generously festooned. Any ideas? Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:34:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "James C. King" Subject: Removing Beeswax from Pans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings, When I purify beeswax for candle making, I run hot wax after filtering into large (holds 25-30 lb), oval shaped, galvanized pans which I purchased long ago from either Dadant or Kelley. The problem is that the beeswax sticks to the pan. It contracts in the usual way upon cooling, but about 1/3 of the beeswax remains stuck to the pan after removing most by jarring the pan on the floor. I have tried adding water to the pan before filling and I have tried a silicon mold release. Neither of these seem to help. I would appreciate any suggestions to solve this problem. Thanks, Jim King ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:43:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joseph Augusta Subject: Re: Removing Beeswax from Pans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "James C. King" wrote: > I would > appreciate any suggestions to solve this problem. Thanks, Jim King Try putting the wax in the freezer to solidify--that should do it. best wishes, Joseph ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:57:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Removing Beeswax from Pans In-Reply-To: <200003141639.LAA25173@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > When I purify beeswax for candle making... the beeswax sticks > to the pan. Let the wax cool to the point of nearly skinning over before pouring. Also try standing the wax mold in water if that does not do the trick. allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:50:43 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Language - not language In-Reply-To: <200003141341.IAA17329@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > My overall interpretation of all of the above? Swarm movement depends on > Nasanov odor produced by scout bees. That odor drifts downwind from > suitable cavities and also enables scout bees to lead swarms through the > air to the new site. >From the above, I would assume that the successful movement of swarms of bees to new locations should be somewhat related to wind direction and strength. Have any observations been made as to which direction swarms normally move from their hives in comparison to the normal winds in an area, or the time of day that the swarms move, seeing as that winds often shift predictably with the time of day? allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:25:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Removing Beeswax from Pans In-Reply-To: <200003141639.LAA25167@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 14 Mar 2000, James C. King wrote: > When I purify beeswax for candle making, I run hot wax after filtering into > large (holds 25-30 lb), oval shaped, galvanized pans which I purchased long > ago from either Dadant or Kelley. The problem is that the beeswax sticks > to the pan. I have released wax from metal pans by floating the pan in a larger pan of boiling water. The wax next to the pan melts and the lump of wax left can be lifted out. This leaves a film of wax on the pan. You could also heat the pan with a heat gun or hair dryer. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:05:10 +1100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Julian O'Dea Subject: Re: Language - not language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Adrian Wenner's recent interesting post on swarming includes the following observation: " Consider first an odor-search model. Scout bee activity actually occurs not only on the swarm cluster but also is quite frenzied at each potential nest cavity. Those of us fortunate to have watched that behavior at a potential destination know that scouts repeatedly expose their Nasanov glands, both inside and outside those cavities. Some of them also execute waggle dances on flat surfaces near cavity entrances. " Julian O'Dea: Professor Wenner does not comment directly on this last observation, but it seems clear that bees doing waggle dances near cavity entrances could not be communicating with other bees. Adrian Wenner: " The dance maneuvers on the surface of the swarm clusters and at the new site are thus merely a SYMPTOM (not a cause) of what is happening during swarm relocation. Julian O'Dea hinted as much when he termed the dance "idiothetic behaviour" in this extended exchange --- as Rosin did recently in the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL (p. 98 in the February issue). " Julian O'Dea: I am trying to locate a copy of this journal here. Unfortunately, someone has borrowed the relevant issue. Does anyone have Dr Rosin's e-mail address? I would like to get in contact with him. It appears that we are thinking along similar lines. Here again is my latest writing on the bee dance language issue: http://naturalscience.com/ns/articles/01-13/ns_jdo.html Julian O'Dea Canberra, Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 22:36:38 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter.edwards@ZBEE.COM Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: Flax (Linseed) as a source of nectar/pollen CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 437 MSGID: 240:244/174 89f3df69 REPLY: 240:44/0 f10bb720 PID: FDAPX/w 1.15 UnReg(400) You have only to stand in a field of linseed in flower to know the answer! One of my apiaries with 12 hives was surrounded by linseed a couple of years ago and I did not see a single bee on it. --- * Origin: Beenet Point (240:244/174)