From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 10:28:48 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06273 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:28:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01958 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:31:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141531.KAA01958@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:31:39 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0003C" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 96571 Lines: 1891 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:37:28 -0500 Reply-To: jrossman@surfsouth.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "JOSEPH F. ROSSMAN" Subject: Re: Removing Beeswax from Pans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > > > When I purify beeswax for candle making... the beeswax sticks > > to the pan. > > Let the wax cool to the point of nearly skinning over before pouring. Also try > standing the wax mold in water if that does not do the trick. > > allen You might want to try using something on the order of Pam non-sticking spray. I use this type material when making cell cups and it works well. I try to use the canola oil. Fred Rossman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:12:44 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Happy St Patrick's Day Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I should like to wish everybody a very happy St Patrick's Day - March 17 - and trust that we all have a good beekeeping year. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 07:00:58 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Removing Beeswax from Pans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do what I did with my Dadant metal wax pans. Throw them away and buy Rubbermaid dishpans. They are cheap, and the wax almost never sticks. When you bang them on the floor, they don't bend like the metal ones. James C. King wrote > When I purify beeswax for candle making, I run hot wax after filtering into > large (holds 25-30 lb), oval shaped, galvanized pans which I purchased long > ago from either Dadant or Kelley. The problem is that the beeswax sticks > to the pan. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 06:45:50 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anonymous Ok Subject: Re: Removing Beeswax from Pans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After i melt my bees wax i place it in the freezer and it will separate from the walls of the pan. kyhoneyman Jim huff ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:42:13 +0800 Reply-To: joelmags Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: joelmags Organization: ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE FARMS Subject: Re: Removing Beeswax from Pans Hello Jim (King)! I have tried all sorts of containers and container materials for beeswax and would recommend the following, depending upon your projected use: 1. For bulk storage: Stainless steel hemispherical gallon bowls. These are perfect for solar beeswax melters. Beeswax does not readily stick to stainless steel. The hemispherical shape leaves no corners and flat surfaces that the liquid wax can cling to. If you prefer to heat your beeswax on a stove, do not get it too hot because it will tend to stick. Pour it as soon as it all melts. 2. For slow use in candlemaking: Dixie cups are best. Beeswax will tend to stick to the plastic, but you can tear it to unmold the wax. 3. Hand spray soapy water (use liquid soap or dishwasher detergent) into your molds just before you pour in the beeswax. I have found that I can work faster when I use rainwater for beeswax processing and for making the release agent. 4. By the way, I use a solar melter for cappings and salvaging beeswax from old combs. During our monsoon season, I use an overflow hot water press. Joel F. Magsaysay ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE FARMS Cavite Highlands, Philippines ilogmria@cav.pworld.net.ph (063) 46-865-0018 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 07:49:15 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Happy St Patrick's Day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/15/00 4:39:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, cssl@IOL.IE writes: > I should like to wish everybody a very happy St Patrick's Day - March 17 - > and trust that we all have a good beekeeping year. Likewise to you. May your flowers be full of nectar. And a tip o' the hat to the Irish, who preserved civilization during the Dark Ages. Not too many Americans know that... Dave Green Pot o' Gold Honey Company Hemingway, SC USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:15:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael Bassett Subject: formic acid I have been trying to order the formic acid gel packs but have been told that there is a packaging problem and none is available and won't be available until 3/23/2000. anyone know where I can obtain them as by the time they become available I won't have the required 3 weeks on, 4 weeks without and then put on your honey supras. thanks mike ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:02:16 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Cranberry pollination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the current issue of Growing Edge magazine (March/April 2000), a team of freelance reporters report on growing cranberries in Washington state. In one section they describe the growth of a need for bees for pollination: We had noticed several stacks of beehives along the edges of the bogs. Most of the local cranberry farmers rent hives from a commercial beekeeper in Moses Lake, WA, for $38 per hive during the pollination season, which lasts about six weeks. The Ericksons estimate that each hive contains a colony of between 10,000 and 30,000 honeybees. Traditionally, bumblebees are the natural pollinators of the bog, but their population has dwindled to the point where honeybees must be imported to supplement their efforts. One probably cause for this problem is a decline in the bees' habitat. Gradually, cranberry bogs have been replacing the areas where bumblebees used to live. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:42:54 -0500 Reply-To: Peter John Keating Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter John Keating Subject: Re: Cranberry pollination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In the current issue of Growing Edge magazine (March/April 2000), a team of > freelance reporters report on growing cranberries in Washington state. In one > section they describe the growth of a need for bees for pollination: Here in Quebec the rent for honeybee colonies is CAN$80 for the 3 week period. One of the reasons for the high price is that the colony declines as there is very little food in the bogs.I did cranberries last year and had to give the hives the third box mainly for the bees, but there did produce some honey (from the nearby fireweed l suspect).The main problem was moving the hives, out of the blueberries and into the cranberries with evening temperatures in the 30oC. The bees hang out, and are left on the ground or on the truck bed! Peter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:19:14 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David & Sarah Grew-Foss Subject: Early spring-west coast Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" West coast weather. Our local bee club recorded the first swarm of the year on Feb. 15. One of my hives swarmed on feb 26 with a second swarm on march 1, both of which I was able to collect inbetween rain storms. A second hive swarmed on march 9, the first day of real sunshine we have had in a month. I had reversed boxes on Feb 3 and then the weather cooled dramatically with intense rain, so I was unable to go into the hives again until now. As of yesterday two other hives had 15 and 16 deep frames of brood in all stages, very few drones. The eucalyptus, plums, apricots, scotch broom, dandelion are all blooming but our serious honey flow won't start for a month. Seems like a roaring spring has sprung. Sarah Grew Richmond, CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:47:01 BST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: andy sutherland Organization: Manchester University and UMIST Subject: Can anyone in CA help In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Just Received this E-mail but I live in the UK can anyone help?? Thanks Andy From: HOANGDUNG102@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:52:35 EST Subject: beekeeper To: MBDESAS@mail1.mcc.ac.uk hi, my name is Beatrice. I live in Orange County, California. There is a bee nest on the wall of my house. And we need to do some termite for the house. We don't want the bees to die. Do you know any beekeepers/hobbyist in Southern California?? Could you refer them to me/?? thank you Beatrice Andy Sutherland E-Mail:- Andy.Sutherland@man.ac.uk Manchester University Tel:- 0161 275 4641 Electronics Section Fax:- 0161 275 4598 Chemistry Dept M13 9PL ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 07:57:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Cannaday Subject: Apicure I received a shipment of Apicure yesterday from BetterBee. When I first opened it I was gased by a large amount of fumes that came out of the box. As I took a few steps back and walked out the garage to catch my breath I wondered how much time I had taken off my life with enhaling those fumes. I returned later to check out the package and found what I thought was leakage as there appeared to be a liquid all over the packing and packages of apicure. I called BetterBee to let them know that there appeared to be a problem with the shipment. They assured me this was normal and the moisture I saw was water. Well, that New York water had a different smell to it than any water I had ever smelt. I examined every pack as quickly as I could as the smell was too strong to stand. I placed the packages in a plastic tupperware container for now until I can think of another plan on what to do with those packets. I guess in closing what I am trying to say is if you receive a shipment don't open it like a christmas package like I did you might be in for a surprise. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:22:05 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Hale Organization: The "B"ee Spot Subject: Bee Scorpion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All We are new to the verroa story here in South Africa, but we are finding a few intresting things out. Well lets say it has not been scientifically proved yet. Hives with verroa seem to be unaffected by it IF it has got Chelifers or Bee Scorpoins (Ellingsenius fulleri), a pseudoscorpion. They are harmless to the bees but prey on mites. I have seen these Bee Scorpoins attacking the Braula mite. So I am hoping and checking to see what is going to happen. I have left a few hives untreated but there is a good population of Bee Scorpions. One of the other things is that the infestation of the lesser Hive Bettle is less if the Bee Scorpion is present. Aparantly the only other place where the Bee Scorpion is found is in Asia, where Verroa originated from. I submitted this article to Bee-L but it was rejected. If you have any info or know where to find more on the Bee Scorpion could you please foward it to me. Regards Mark >From not so dark Africa. Hosts APIMONDIA 2001 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:20:54 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Hale Organization: The "B"ee Spot Subject: Bees and TNT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All I am wondering if you can help. I am a small bee farmer in South Africa. I specialize in the control and removal of problem swarms. I have removed them from some of the strangest places. I have just had a request from a company to assist them at their factory. They process TNT and the bees seem to be attracted to it in a big way. Workers get stung on ocasions while carrying the TNT and should they drop it, well you can just imagine. This has already happend on a few occations with some serious results. The cardboard boxes which the TNT comes in, attract swarms once it is empty and dicarded. 2 or 3 swarms are "caught" this way every week. I dont have a problem with sorting out this problem, but it intrests me to find out what is attracting the bees. This will also help in the solving of the problem. Regards Mark Hale from not so dark Africa Hosts APIMODIA 2001 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:40:43 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stephen Buchmann Subject: misinformation about Ted Turner and bees... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear All, I have been reading the various postings on Bee-L and other newsgroups relating to bees and other pollinators. Its amazing to see how rumors get starting and the "information" gets distorted on rumor mills online just as in real life. We are not honey bee-bashers and the Forgotten Pollinators Campaign was formed to save/protect/conserve and restore ALL pollinators, including honey bees. Along with Dr. Gary Nabhan (Director of Conservation Biology, The Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum) co-founded (in 1994) The Forgotten Pollinators Campaign (later known as the Pollinator Conservation Consortium and now as Partners in Pollination) as a wakeup call to policy-makers, land managers, researchers, gardeners and beekeepers. Both Gary and I had seen advance warning signals that honey bees, native bees and other pollinators were imperiled and that we could do something about it. Our tri-national campaign (Canada, U.S. and Mexico) has been wildly successful. It has been reported about in hundreds of newspapers and magazines around the world along with helping put substantial funding into further research on pollinator declines. One such grant, was from the Turner Foundation to the Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum. This is an ongoing 3 year grant, of $400K, to the Desert Museum in Tucson. This grant only deals with one invertebrate, the monarch butterfly and not bees of any kind. The players in this U.S./Mexico migratory pollinators effort are a nectar-feeding bat, rufous hummingbirds and white-winged doves. This and other FP events/causes can be found online at: http://www.desertmuseum.org/pollinators.html and http://www.desertmuseum.org/index.html Why are we fighting amongst ourselves? We should all be rallying around the pollinator cause, whether we're talking about honey bees,native bees, birds or bats. Fighting and name-calling is not the way to influence policy-makers and generate much-needed research on habitat fragmentation, pesticides, mites etc. Astute honey bee beekeepers have already found that pollination IS the bottom line. It seems as if few beekeepers make all of their living from selling honey in depressed markets suffering froom foreign competition. Many beekeepers have adopted the wise strategy of becoming pollinator services companies providing cost-effective pollination services using honey bees, bumblebees, mason bees and leafcutter bees. The need for a mixed "pollinator portfolio" has not diminished. There are many crops out of more than 100 grown in the U.S. that get the best pollination from a mixed pollinator strategy of honey bees and native bees. In other cases (buzz pollination by native bees and about 8% of the world's flowering crops) need pollination from other bee species, since honey bees are incable of delivering floral sonication to suchblossoms (blueberries, cranberries, eggplant, peppers, kiwi fruit, tomatoes). Mr. Turner has decided that some of his philanthropy should go to pollinator studies, and for conservation and restoration. His attention will lead to more funding from public and private organziations to the pollinator cause, including honey bees. I urge all Bee-L subscribers to watch "Pollinators in Peril" on TBS channel (cable tv) on Tuesday, March 21st at 10:05 pm (Eastern Time) and see for themselves. This is not a honey bee-bashing movie. The plight of the familar honey bee (mites, pesticides etc.) is clearly made. The film will do a great deal for promoting honey bees and all pollinators. Sincerely, Stephen Buchmann, Ph.D. co-author and Co-Founder, The Forgotten Pollinators Campaign (formerl Research Entomologist) USDA-ARS Carl Hayden Bee Research Center) Tucson, AZ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:17:41 +1100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Julian O'Dea Subject: Re: Language - not language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Adrian Wenner wrote recently: " The dance maneuvers on the surface of the swarm clusters and at the new site are thus merely a SYMPTOM (not a cause) of what is happening during swarm relocation. Julian O'Dea hinted as much when he termed the dance "idiothetic behaviour" in this extended exchange --- as Rosin did recently in the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL (p. 98 in the February issue). " Julian O'Dea: This discussion has been going on for a long time on Bee-L. I made the suggestion that the bee dance "language" is really only "idiothetic behaviour" as long ago as 1996, a point picked up by the following site: http://www.dromo.com/fusionanomaly/bees.html Canberra, Australia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:15:33 -0600 Reply-To: lkrengel@mc.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Krengel Subject: Midwest Beekeeping Symposium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The final schedule for the Midwest Beekeeping Symposium is now on line at http://www.blazing-star.com/mwbee.html The line up is great - featuring Mark Winston - and the lunch of honey everything is included in the registration. Great door prizes and a panel discussion with four of beekeeping's experts - Winston, Capaldi, Killion, and Cox - all on the same stage. Check out the schedule. It is worth the trip. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:39:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Subject: Re: misinformation about Ted Turner and bees... In-Reply-To: <200003162206.RAA04902@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Mr. Turner has decided that some of his philanthropy should go to > pollinator studies, and for conservation and restoration. His attention > will lead to more funding from public and private organziations to the > pollinator cause, including honey bees. I urge all Bee-L subscribers to > watch "Pollinators in Peril" on TBS channel (cable tv) on Tuesday, March > 21st at 10:05 pm Maybe it is because Mr. Turner's organization has stated very clearly that his goal is to restore things to a state "before white man was so bloody common across the landscape" (Tampa Tribune March 13, 2000). I see no reason to think that the white man's flies would be exempt from the stated goals. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:29:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: misinformation about Ted Turner and bees... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stephen Buchmann wrote much more than this: > Many beekeepers have adopted the wise strategy of > becoming pollinator services companies providing cost-effective pollination > services using honey bees, bumblebees, mason bees and leafcutter bees. The > need for a mixed "pollinator portfolio" has not diminished. There are many > crops out of more than 100 grown in the U.S. that get the best pollination > from a mixed pollinator strategy of honey bees and native bees. In other > cases (buzz pollination by native bees and about 8% of the world's > flowering crops) need pollination from other bee species, since honey bees > are incable of delivering floral sonication to suchblossoms (blueberries, > cranberries, eggplant, peppers, kiwi fruit, tomatoes). Interesting that honeybees are incapable of delivering floral sonication to blueberries and cranberries. But does that translate to an inability to pollinate? If it does, then we had best inform the blueberry and cranberry industry here in Maine who imported over 60,000 hives last year. I have a very big problem with the propagandists, and I do not use that word lightly, who are pushing other pollinators. There were studies in Maine that showed another pollinator had increased blueberry pollination in a field. But it was never mentioned that honeybees were also in the field, so you were really increasing the number of pollinators- something the industry has learned to their benefit by more than doubling the number of hives coming into the state. But the advocate for their bee used the data to try and get rid of the honeybee and replace it with their bee. Only problem was it cost about $1000 to get the same saturation as one hive of honeybees. One of my biggest peeves with scientists is the exclusion or skewing of data to further their cause. Just take a look at both sides of the global warming issue. There is too much politics and too little science. There may be misinformation about Ted, but there was also misinformation in the rebuttal. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:41:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: misinformation about Ted Turner and bees... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have not had a lot of time lately to add my comments, but I have to add my 2 cents worth over the recent discussion about Ted Turner, Buchmann and Nabhan. It seems there is a lot of information being bantered about before everyone has a chance to do their homework. Homework? Yes, homework. First assignment: READ THE BOOK! Second assignment: WATCH THE SHOW! I read _The_Forgotten_Pollinators_ a few years back and rather enjoyed it. I don't recall being overly alerted to the authors' attack on honeybees as an exotic pest, although I do recall a bit of concern over the large collective pollinating force. The message I got from the book was the idea of an endangered relationship as opposed to endangered species; the difference being an endangered species is a particular entity (say flower) which can be endangered. Now, if that flower is the sole source of food for a forgotten pollinator, if the flower goes down then the reliant pollinator goes with it, hence an endangered relationship. Plenty of examples; a cliff dwelling plant in Hawaii comes to mind - the pollinators succumbed decades ago, the plant is hanging on, but relies on humans on ropes with paint brushes for pollination. Buchman and Nabhan went on to make a point for habitat preservation that I had not seen previously, or perhaps I had, but never as developed. Presented was the idea of pollination corridors (and migration corridors) which will provide pathways for migratories (birds, insects, whatever) to use on their journeys. Distinction being corridors vs isolated pockets. Old schools saw isolated pockets of preservation (preserves) as sufficient, figuring migratories could make it from one pocket preserve to the next as they migrate. New school of thought is that pockets aren't sufficient to sustain migratories and that corridors are required. Microclimates could effect pockets such that a migratory might arrive at a pocket at the proper time in its (the migratory's) schedule, but the weather may have been too hot or cold to cause the food source upon which the migratories rely to have already past or yet to arrive. Pockets can get out of sync with the migratory, whereas a corridor offers a better buffer. So, do your homework. Until then one has to read the "information" with a grain of salt, Aaron Morris - thinking speculation is not information. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:38:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C.R. Crowell" Subject: Re: misinformation about Ted Turner and bees... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I enjoyed Mr. Truesdell's comment on the controversy surrounding Ted Turner's wealth and philanthropy. Since there are no wealthy beekeepers with access or control over large segments of the news media, the practice of beekeeping is bound to be buffeted by forces that don't necessarily broadcast the truth as we see it. To put the matter into context, remember the Catholic Church excommunicated Mr. Galileo because his findings conflicted with church doctrine. Much more recent was the development of the "common sense" notion that one should always view television with another light source in the same room, a notion created in the media in an attempt to promote the sale of light bulbs. Personally I would not get too worked up over Mr. Turner's rhetoric. I believe we need a good stock of talented entomologists in this country and to nuture that group they can draw funds from all kinds of sources. Beekeepers and farmers alike are not prone to be drawn into "fads" or practices that can lead to the destruction of their livelihood. Also, we have the benefit of rather open news media and public debate that is still sadly lacking in many areas of the world. Probably the largest issue before the public, one that dwarf's Mr. Turner's contribution, is the problem of the Africanized Honey Bee. It would a good idea if the Honey Board, or another group with national stature would seek to take center stage on this issue. Right now if someone is attacked by bees the media turn to whoever steps forward, and the information presented is not always correct. The same people who would be inclined to make sure there is a light turned on in the room when they are watching TV are going to be possibly alarmed if they see a honey bee on the dandilions in their lawn. Good news for ChemLawn, or Terminix, or others, but not for us. /Curtis Crowell ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:59:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Apicure In-Reply-To: <200003170501.AAA15091@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:01 AM 3/17/00 -0500, you wrote: >I wondered how much time I had taken off my life with enhaling those fumes. I suggest to you and to BetterBee that the material safety data sheet (MSDS) be included in every package, it is not already in there. Formic Acid has a very noticeable smell which more or less serves as a warning and essentially prevents the inhalation of significant amounts of gas. It is not to be toyed with and can cause serious burns, but the unpleasant acrid smell is something you have to live with if you wish to use it. >I placed the packages in a plastic tupperware container for now until I can think of another plan on what to do with those packets. You might wish to store the pads in a heavy bucket. Many types of plastic are permeable, which allows gases to be absorbed and in some cases, pass right through. The smell will adhere to plastic and wood and takes a very long time to dissipate completely. However, Formic acid is not a pesticide, per se, and if used carefully could become one of our best tools against mites. I was as much put off by the smell as you, but I might mention that simply because something does or does not have a bad odor, you can't assume that is or is not safe. By the way, it can be neutralized by adding large amounts of water and bicarbonate of soda, until the pH is near to normal (it stops fizzing). - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Peter Borst plb6@cornell.edu http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/plb6/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:38:34 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Stevens Subject: Re: Apicure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: your shipment of Apicure - Bob. you got some of the first half pallet that went out - we were having trouble with some material dripping on the outside of the bags - the bags were washed but obviously not adequately by our manufacturer. Simply put them in a 5 gallon pail and leave it outside for a day without the cover on and what little residue of diluted formic and water is on the outside will dissapate. Always handle Apicure with Chemical resistant Neoprene gloves, even if there is no smell. The ones we are shipping today and the ones the distributors will get next week have no residue on the outside. Bob Stevens Bob Cannaday wrote: > I received a shipment of Apicure yesterday from BetterBee. When I first > opened it I was gased by a large amount of fumes that came out of the box. > As I took a few steps back and walked out the garage to catch my breath I > wondered how much time I had taken off my life with enhaling those fumes. > I returned later to check out the package and found what I thought was > leakage as there appeared to be a liquid all over the packing and packages > of apicure. I called BetterBee to let them know that there appeared to be > a problem with the shipment. They assured me this was normal and the > moisture I saw was water. Well, that New York water had a different smell > to it than any water I had ever smelt. I examined every pack as quickly as > I could as the smell was too strong to stand. I placed the packages in a > plastic tupperware container for now until I can think of another plan on > what to do with those packets. I guess in closing what I am trying to say > is if you receive a shipment don't open it like a christmas package like I > did you might be in for a surprise. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:18:02 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: misinformation about Ted Turner and bees... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Stephen Buchmann has co-authored a persuasive book about pollination that has seized the interest (and opinions and dollars) of a wide audience. As one reviewer said, “…although written by credible scientists, [it] launches the reader on a much more poetic voyage into the complex interactions between animals and the plants they feed on.” (Bloomsbury Review). That vision turns dark when it focuses on honey bees, which, according to the book, are “on a trajectory of ecological conquest,” “literally taking the food right out of the mouths of babes,” and encourages the reader to “wonder how many beasts it has eliminated in its wake.” It is good news to hear that, moving forward, the Forgotten Pollinators Campaign will not continue to denounce honey bees. Better to hear that pollination biologists with lobbying savvy and money will put their shoulders into raising all boats in the pollination community. However, beekeepers will still need to articulate a response to “The Forgotten Pollinators.” While the subscribers to this list get to hear a clarification of your views, the larger community will not. When a scientist who is billed in the publisher's press release to the media as “one of the world’s leading authorities on bees and pollination” calls honey bees an “exotic invader”—with all the regulatory and public policy implications that brings—a response is necessary. And that response begins by acknowledging that honey bees are not alone as the only non-native pollinating insect on the landscape. Garden and field and full of alien leaf cutter bees, bumblebees outside their range (55 species, but only a few are sold commercially), Orchard Mason bees outside their range, Japanese horn-faced bees, etc. No regulatory effort can be proposed—or campaign to discourage—without addressing the presence and uses of these other insects being introduced by pollination biologists or raised and sold by biological supply companies. The best response to the “exotic invader” theory is education. Whenever a beekeeper talks somewhere in front of a class or a group of people, be sure to mention that the honey bee is just one of many insects of immigrant ancestry working hard alongside the natives to ensure our food supply. Off by itself, the honey bee is an easy target. If I seem to belabor an obvious point, its because this book, which may be the first some people read about pollination, presents a dichotomy: an exclusive focus on one non-native pollinator (honey bees) and its sometimes-studied, sometimes-speculated effects upon indigenous New World species. No mention is made of alternative non-native pollinators and our knowledge—or lack thereof—of their "scramble competition" with true natives. When non-native alternative pollinators are mentioned elsewhere, their non-native status is omitted. You present an intriguing vision of reform for the beekeeping industry. Beekeepers evolve to become “pollination service providers” presenting a wide variety of pollinating insects offering superior pollination tailored to indiv idual crops. If realized, this reform will probably collapse the specialized businesses that support the honey bee industry, such as the equipment supply companies, queen breeders, and others. There is a certain critical mass of customer demand that is necessary to sustain an industry, and hobbyists alone won't provide it. If the honey bee’s role in the pollination business is minimized, that critical mass could be lost. Along the way we stand to lose honey bee research, new treatments and medications, and other forms of assistance and support. I’m also leery of predictions that diminish the role of honey production in the future of beekeeping. It dispenses with the one undebatably unique aspect of keeping bees over other pollinators, and weighs heavily in favor of pollination biologists who want to convince beekeepers to diversify their holdings of pollinating insects. Once a problem has been identified, a solution should be proposed. I propose this: Authors have the opportunity to modify or revise a text between reprintings. If you are truly an ally of beekeepers, why don’t you change your chapter on honey bees to reflect your recent post to this list? Otherwise, regardless of what you say to beekeepers, what you have written will continue to be a poison pill influencing public opinion and policy on beekeeping. John Mitchell ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:59:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Pollen and substitutes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Amen to what David Ryre said about pollen. We need to consider that the balmy end of 1999 and its excessive brood rearing hit not only honey stores but also pollen stores very hard. I have colonies that have been consuming 1 oz per day of substitute for weeks, and their consumption is increasing. The bees display anxiety if the cupboard goes bare. It has seemed like an early Spring is coming, but we have yet no significant nectar or pollen sources outside the hive here in central Maine. My bees in their own way say the truth. It is a very perilous time. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:52:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: misinformation about Ted Turner and bees... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bill Truesdell wrote: >Interesting that honeybees are incapable of delivering floral sonication to >blueberries and cranberries. But does that translate to an inability to >pollinate? >If it does, then we had best inform the blueberry and cranberry industry >here in Maine who imported over 60,000 hives last year. I had 900 hives rented to blueberry pollination last year Bill, but I do not take what Stephen Buchmann said with the same offense that you seem to. I would be the first to admit that bumblebees are far superior pollinators of blueberries. Your point is well taken, that it is the relative cheapness and size of field force that is the honeybee's strength. But Stephen's point is also quite valid. Bumblebees sonicating the bloom buzz out huge amounts of pollen. That is why they can actually gather blueberry pollen. The honeybees are accidental pollinators in their forage for nectar. But the plants are producing that nectar to encourage such accidental pollination. The mixture of both bumblebees and honeybees is a very beneficial one, because there is a lot more loose pollen for the honeybees to move around if the bumblebees have been active. Endel Karmo, a pioneer in the study of blueberry pollination compared the bumblebees to a bulldozer, and the honeybees to a harrows working it in. And that I believe was Stephen's point, a variety of pollinators is to everyone's advantage, and it is the chemical and habitat threats which are our common enemy. The different bees in the blueberry field are NOT occupying the same niche and are not in direct competition. Neither should we be. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:41:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Competition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Allen wrote: >Some of those species may only get one opportunity per year to go through the >foraging part of their cycle, but the honey bees may have made a clean getaway >on a lorry to an area where they can recover. You asked for specifics rather than generalities. The situation in Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island, Canada, might make for an interesting specific. In Nova Scotia the booming blueberry industry requires far more hives than can be supported (economically) by the province. That is, the hives can no longer make decent honey crops in some parts of the province and one of those parts is the Annapolis Valley which traditionally had the highest bee density by far. In Prince Edward Island a recent study extrapolated that the blueberry industry could require 7000 hives in five years time which is probably a few thousand over the economic carrying capacity of PEI, which has less than a million acres of cleared land, and much of that is in either grain or potatoes. The honey bees here cannot make a "clean getaway" like the migratory hives in the blueberry fields of Maine. (Both PEI and Nova Scotia are closed to bee importation from both the US and other provinces.) They can move a few miles to be in a better proximity to good forage, but it does not give them a huge advantage over the bumbles for instance, who can also access good forage in this mixed farming situation. And the niche specialities of the bees are probably of more importance. The long tongue of the bumbles is a big advantage here where red clover is the predominant forage crop grown. In the blueberry fields I do not see competition between bee species. The honey bees are gathering nectar from the blueberries, while the bumbles are sonicating them and gathering pollen. Some of the solitary bees drill the flowers at the base. I agree strongly with Dave Green that the real threat to both bumblebees and ALL pollinators is from pesticide misuse or overuse. The beekeeper may move honeybee colonies from the blueberry field here not only to access better forage but also to avoid some of the insecticide spraying that follows flowering. The presence of honeybee colonies in the blueberry field has been an asset IMHO to the bumblebees, because the growers cannot spray if they want the beekeeper to return, and some of them did not seem to show the same respect to their freebees. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:24:04 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 3/17/00 10:49:28 PM, sandler@AURACOM.COM writes: <> "In some species (of bumblebee) the tongue can reach a length equaling 85 percent of the bee's body length. Even the bumblebees classified as short-tongued bees have tongues reaching 50 to 60 percent of their body length." — From Humblebee Bumblebee, (1997) by Brian Griffen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:46:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Becky or Al S Boehm Subject: power lines post someone asked for help with a project concerning beekeeping under powerlines about 10 days ago, I lost my mail, Questioner please contact me off line thanks .. Al Boehm Beckwards@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:28:43 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Another pollination contract MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New listing: a watermelon grower in SC needs 200+ hives this summer. Check this and other listings at the pollination page. Dave Green http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:54:13 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: COMPETITION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The greatest competition a colony of honeybees has must be with other colonies of the same species. Read Dr Leslie Bailey on the effects of colonies being placed at at density greater than desirable from the bees' point of view. On the other hand I have noticed that bees can to some extent enhance their own pastures through improved pollination. The paddock next to my first apiary has had a great increase in wild white clover since I started keeping bees there. This extra nectar is also available for other species of bees. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:25:12 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: R & S Adams Subject: Re: legal contract/swarm removal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; boundary="CEeQVBZRPUVbQQbDBIRJbBQYYCENQB"; charset="iso-8859-1" I am looking for a legal contract that I can use for swarm removal. A local beekeeper uses one and says I should have one too.....I think he wants to sell it to me...Anyone have any suggestions? He charges up to $200.00,so he says, and guarantees they won't come back or next time is free. Thanks in advance .....Randy Adams -----Original Message----- From: Automatic digest processor To: Recipients of BEE-L digests Date: Friday, March 17, 2000 11:11 PM Subject: BEE-L Digest - 16 Mar 2000 to 17 Mar 2000 (#2000-74) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:55:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: mike Bassett Subject: eastern seaboard nile virus Our local newspaper reported that the centers for disease control has alerted the eastern seaboard to come up with plans for surveilance and control of the nile virus. Massachusetts is planning to spray b.t. immediately if the virus is located. If this is not enough they will add aerial fogging using Malathion. I have also seen articles from Conn. and N.H. Barbra G. Warner the associate director of the Mass. Dept of public health laboratory is helping to coordinate the statewide. investigation. probably would be a good idea to contact the appropriate agencies and find out what can be done to limit the damage to all bees. mike ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:19:59 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: eastern seaboard nile virus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/20/00 8:09:50 AM, basset@NEESNET.COM writes: <> Can you give the name of the newspaper and whether the story is accessible online? Or better yet, post the story here? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:39:59 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Re: eastern seaboard nile virus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For anyone in the NYC metro area, plans are underway to hit the area with a vengeance to kill the mosquitos. Not sure what they are going to spray, but are we to assume that either of these pesticides are lethal to honeybees? Jean-Francois Lariviere BeeHealthy Farms, Inc. NY NY 10025 << centers for disease control has alerted the eastern seaboard to come up with plans for surveilance and control of the nile virus. Massachusetts is planning to spray b.t. immediately if the virus is located. If this is not enough they will add aerial fogging using Malathion. >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 06:49:52 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: cost of pollination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone ever figured out the real cost of pollination? I've moved bees onto apples for many years. I am wondering now, is it really worth it? Upon reversing, before pollination, I mark colonies that will need to be split. I do the splitting in the orchard, so I don't have to drive all over the county. Many of the colonies marked as strong are no longer splittable after the move. Many of the bees are gone(lost?). Colonies not moved are still "booming" with bees. They usually yield a nuc, and at least an extra super of honey. Do the math. A nuc, and an extra super of honey has to be more valuable to the keeper than the check from the orchard. Any ideas? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:21:27 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Skriba Subject: Used extractor on ebay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Am I missing something here? I watched this item on ebay and noticed that the same thing selling brand new goes for $3 less than what the buyer paid for it used. Use d Extractor And for those interested, also seen currently running on ebay is an electric uncapping knife and apistan strips. Bill Skriba ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:29:26 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: eastern seaboard nile virus Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Everyone, Sounds like you and other beekeepers on the east coast of the US need to be aware of the problems with the Nile virus and mosquito control efforts to reduce the impact. As for the treatments being used, the Bt. products are for larval control and will not impact honey bees but the Malathion can cause problems if it is not applied properly and carefully as has been noted in the past by Dave Greene. It would not hurt for beekeepers to let county extension offices know that they have honey bee colonies in the area and enlist their help in letting applicators know that any pesticides need to be applied carefully and properly to avoid killing honey bees and other beneficial insects. They do a fair amount of mosquito control here but mostly use larval treatments and I have not had any problems nor have any been reported from other beekeepers here in the twin cities area of St Paul and Minneapolis Minnesota. Every year they do larval treatments to a pond right across the street from my bees with no noticable impact at all. So they can control the mosquitos without killing the bees. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:03:12 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: eastern seaboard nile virus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone know if the widespread application of the BT mosquito larvicide will have an effect on wax mothes and other lepidopterous insects? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:27:56 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Honey bees best monitors of the environment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit (on enn web site) Animal Sentinels by Claude Morgan Jerry Bromenshenk has been monitoring levels of pollution in the environment with specially equipped chemical "sniffers" for nearly 30 years. On a moment's notice, he and a team of scientists from the University of Montana in Missoula can transport their laboratory, set up their finely-tuned instruments and put these highly-sensitive sniffers to work. On site, the sniffers take millions of samples from the air, soil and water, and process them into scientific data. But these are no ordinary, off-the-shelf tools. They're bees — honeybees to be exact. And if what the University of Montana team says is true, then these little buzz-units may be our best hope for accurately monitoring the environment. Bees and other so-called "animal sentinels" are supplying scientists with a surprisingly complete picture of the natural world we inhabit. Unlike mechanical monitoring equipment, bees (Apis mellifera) are inexpensive, replaceable and give instant feedback. "We do all of this in real time," says Bromenshenk. "When our little honey bees are in trouble, so are the humans." For the full article, go to www.enn.com and check out "Animal Sentinels" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:10:43 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: eastern seaboard nile virus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Long quote from the article in the Worcester Telegram and Gazette State set to attack deadly Nile virus Saturday, March 18, 2000 By John J. Monahan Telegram & Gazette Staff State officials are preparing a rapid response plan, which includes widespread spraying of pesticides, in the event a mosquito-borne outbreak of the deadly West Nile Virus occurs this spring in Massachusetts. The preparations come on the heels of advisories from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta for the Eastern Seaboard states, including all of New England, to come up with plans for the surveillance and control of possible outbreaks of the virus. Federal officials hope the states can reduce the likelihood, or at least contain, a possible outbreak of the virus that hit New York City last summer. State health officials say that in about a week they will begin sampling mosquito larvae across Massachusetts for signs of the virus. If it is located, they may immediately resort to widespread application of a natural larvicide called BT to kill off immature mosquitoes before they turn into adults. If further monitoring determines that maturing mosquitoes and birds migrating back to New England are carrying the virus, the officials say they may have to go to more intensive widespread applications of pesticides across large areas in the state. In addition to aerial fogging with the pesticide Malathion, which was done throughout the New York City area last summer, urban drainage systems also may be treated with pesticides or larvicides to kill mosquitoes. The virus, which had not previously been seen in the Western Hemisphere, turned up in New York City last summer. The outbreak was noticed after large numbers of birds around Central Park were found dead from the virus. Aerial fogging of the New York City area helped keep to 47 the number of people who contracted the disease. Four residents died from the virus. The West Nile Virus is carried by birds and can be transmitted to humans by mosquitoes that feed on the infected birds, then bite humans. It is uncertain how the virus might act in the United States, which has far different wildlife patterns and climates than the Middle East, where the virus originated. Massachusetts officials expect to learn the answers to key questions in the first weeks of April, when migrating birds and mosquito larvae can be examined for the virus. Barbara G. Warner, the associate director of the Massachusetts Department of Public Health laboratory who is helping to coordinate the statewide investigation, said officials need to quickly determine if the virus has survived the winter, and, if so, how prevalent it is along the Atlantic and Gulf coasts. So far the virus has not been found in Massachusetts, but it was found last year in Connecticut and in wintering mosquitoes in the New York City drainage system in January and February. Massachusetts was included in the recommended surveillance and response area because it is in an area where transmission is likely to occur this spring because of bird migration patterns. “What we don't know is how that organism behaves in this part of the world,” said Brad C. Mitchell, director of the state Pesticide Control Board. Although birds tend to die from the virus, which could limit continuation of the outbreak that occurred in New York, scientists still need to monitor birds to determine if the disease has spread during the winter and spring migrations of birds. “This may have been a one shot deal in New York last year, but we are monitoring it and preparing for the worst,” Mr. Mitchell said. The state already monitors and kills mosquitoes in Southeastern Massachusetts to protect against the spread of eastern equine encephalitis. However, because a different mosquito species that is more likely to live in urban areas is believed to carry the West Nile virus, the monitoring and control plans for the disease are being expanded across the state. Urban areas included in the plans include Worcester, Springfield and Boston. “Where we spray would depend on where it is isolated,” Mr. Mitchell said. If the state identifies potential “hot spots” early in mosquito larva, then a mosquito larvicide called BT, a natural toxin, could be used. BT kills mosquito larva but its toxicity is limited. If the virus is later found in adult mosquitoes, other, stronger pesticides may have to be used, Mr. Mitchell said. Ms. Warner said the public can take precautions, guarding against mosquito bites by wearing long pants and long-sleeved shirts and using mosquito repellent. Mr. Mitchell emphasized that residents should take steps to eliminate standing water around their homes to reduce breeding by mosquitoes. He said residents do not have to worry about contracting the virus from birds. Before applying any larvicide or resorting to widespread use of pesticides, state officials would weigh the environmental risks posed by the chemical applications and the risks posed by the virus. “I have no doubt that if it is determined there is significant risk, there will be prompt action,” Mr. Mitchell said. Mr. Mitchell said it is hoped that applying larvicide would be sufficient to curb the problem. However, larvicide may not be adequate, because it is difficult to spray the substance into covered areas where mosquitoes lives. If Malathion is applied from airplanes, he said, it would be applied in the form of a light fog and cover large areas. “None of us want to see it reach that point,” Mr. Mitchell said. © 2000 Worcester Telegram & Gazette Send this page to a friend Last updated: 02:05 AM EST Site Search: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:36:52 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: eastern seaboard nile virus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/20/00 11:00:07 AM, Beehealthy@AOL.COM writes: << Not sure what they are going to spray, but are we to assume that either of these pesticides are lethal to honeybees? >> The Bt is harmless. Malathion is another matter. Dave Green posted an extremely useful Web site listing several weeks ago over on alt.sci.beekeeping to look up pesticides. It is http://www.cdms.net/manuf/manuf.asp You can go there and look up pesticides by label or generic name. I searched for Malathion and came up with 20 companies selling different (or similar) configurations. Here is the recommendation from the label for a Malathion product sold by the Gowen Company: "This product is highly toxic to bees exposed to direct treatment on blooming crops or weeds. Do not apply this product or allow it to drift to blooming crops or weeds, if bees are actively visiting the treatment area." I hope the authorities have the political courage to move forward with this quickly before the purple loosestrife starts blooming in the swamps and wetlands, which I imagine would be a prime target for this kind of thing. Otherwise, its going to be a honey bee massacre. Also, the sooner we have a dieoff, if any, the better the chance the bees can be built back up to survive the winter. That's no consolation to commercial operators, I'm sure. This will also have an effect on those of us who wanted to see how the new Russian queens would perform. Hard to hold them accountable for a harvest where the foragers got clobbered with Malathion. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:53:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) lindena from arc2a545.bf.sover.net [209.198.81.228] 209.198.81.228 Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:55:09 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: calendar items MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="x-user-defined" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here are 4 items for your calendar for Y2K: "Charles Andros, former NH/VT Apiary Inspector, will hold a beekeeping workshop from 1-3 PM on Saturday, April 15, at the Paul Harlow Farm on Route 5 in North Westminster, VT, 1/2 mile north of the I-91 Exit 5 ramp. Look for the "BEE" sign on the west side. Topic of discussion will be early spring management: locating apiaries, equipment, handling bees, feeding syrup and pollen supplements, mite treatments, making nuclei, reversing, and requeening. Bring a veil, if you have one, as we shall be opening some colonies. Rain date: April 16. To register by email: lindena@sover.net or call 603-756-9056." "Charles Andros, former NH/VT Apiary Inspector, will hold a beekeeping workshop from 1-3 PM on Saturday, May 13, at the Paul Harlow Farm on Route 5 in North Westminster, VT, 1/2 mile north of the I-91 Exit 5 ramp. Look for the "BEE" sign on the west side. Topics of discussion: finding queens, requeening and 2-queen colonies, pollen collection, swarm control, supering, and bee venom therapy. Bring a veil, if you have one, as we shall be opening some colonies. Rain date: May 14. To register by email: lindena@sover.net or call 603-756-9056." "Tracheal and Varroa mites are notorious killers of bees in New England. American Foulbrood disease is on the increase as dead hives are being robbed. Beekeepers must take timely steps to control these pests to SAVE THE BEES! Charles Andros, former NH/VT Apiary Inspector, will hold a beekeeping workshop from 1-3 PM on Saturday, July 22, at the Paul Harlow Farm on Route 5 in North Westminster, VT, 1/2 mile north of the I-91 Exit 5 ramp. Look for the "BEE" sign on the west side. The topics of discussion will be taking off and extracting honey, wax processing, treatment of mites and foulbrood, and making propolis tincture. Bring a veil, if you have one, as we shall be opening some colonies. Rain date: July 23. To register by email: lindena@sover.net or call 603-756-9056." "Charles Andros, former NH/VT Apiary Inspector, will hold a beekeeping workshop from 1-3 PM on Saturday, September 30, at the Paul Harlow Farm on Route 5 in North Westminster, VT, 1/2 mile north of the I-91 Exit 5 ramp. Look for the "BEE" sign on the west side. Topics of discussion will include treatment of nosema and tracheal mites, winter preparations, winter protein and carbohydrate supplements, and making beeswax handcreams. Bring a veil, if you have one, as we shall be opening some colonies. Rain date: October 1. To register by email: lindena@sover.net or call 603-756-9056." Thank you. Thank you, Charles Andros Linden Apiaries since 1973 Walpole, NH 03608-0165 Residence: Latitude: 43° 05’ North, Longitude: 72° 21’ 15" West, Elevation 1200’ Keeper of 43 two-queen colonies for honey, pollen, propolis, beauty products, pollination, nuclei, beeswax, candles, apitherapy, and education “Learn, experiment, innovate, educate!” ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:47:44 -0800 Reply-To: mdshepherd@xerces.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Shepherd Subject: Re: eastern seaboard nile virus In-Reply-To: <200003201506.KAA21482@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There are several varieties of Bt available. The varieties usually used against mosquitos and other flies are Bt var. israelensis and Bt var. sphaericus (known as Bti and Bts, respectively). The Bt variety that seems to be most widely used as a control for lepidopteran insects is Bt var. kurstaki (Btk), although Bt var. aizawai (Bta) may also be used. The use of Btk, in particular, seems to be less devastating to the ecology of the application area when used to control caterpillars than previous pesticides, but still causes concern. For example, Fenitrothion was used in New Brunswick forests to control the 1969-71spruce budworm outbreak, and lead to the loss of pollination services to the blueberry growers of the region. Btk is better targeted in that it will not damage bees, but research indicates it has the capacity to kill up to 85% of nontarget lepidoptera individuals. Sadly, many nontarget species appear to be more susceptible to the control measures than the target pest species. Given the known impacts of Btk on nontarget lepidopteran species, it seems sensible to be aware of the potential impacts on nontarget species of the application of other Bt varieties. Matthew Shepherd *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 3/20/00 at 10:03 AM BeeCrofter@AOL.COM wrote: >Anyone know if the widespread application of the BT mosquito larvicide will >have an effect on wax mothes and other lepidopterous insects? _______________________________________________ Matthew Shepherd Director, Publications and Pollination Programs The Xerces Society 4828 SE Hawthorne Boulevard, Portland, OR 97215-3252 Tel: 503-232 6639 Fax: 503-233 6794 Email: mdshepherd@xerces.org _______________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:11:29 +0100 Reply-To: Jorn Johanesson Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: This is not Apidictor! But;} MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear friennds Since I started the programming of my software back in 1972, I have been thinking of a way to collect data in the beeyard, and then in an easy way getting those data into the computer for futher processing. What have kept me away from this aproach have been the cost. But now the littel handheld computer has got a reasonabel price and the little PALM V, I am writing on now cost here in Denmark around $300. So now back to write on the computer :-) I have investigated in software to create a handheld software for beekeeping, and I came to, that what was convenient was Satellite forms, because it is using a Dbase V database, and the forms can be designed to match my bidata software.It also shows that this hanheld can be used by Mac Users and that the handheld software therefore can be used by those people owing this kind of PC. The only drawback is, that it cost Money, A lot of Money, so I will not investigate further unless there is an interest in this approach: Using a handheld computer to make notes and judgments in the bee yard and then transferring the data to the PC, for further processing. So Your comments Please. About taking notes I still have the feeling that you are doing much to much Paperwork, and I still feel that the Bidata and its data file is doing what is needed for processing relevant data of both queen breeder and normal beekeeper interest. If that is not the fact then please tell me what you need. I am programming for the beekeepers, not for me myself, and I want to have my software doing what is needed. EDbi now has a new CD,Including the litle writing offered shown and given out on Apimondia 99, about Nordic Beekeeping, Why not get this CD that contains a lot of beekeeping stuff. best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://apimo.dk (USA) http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo (Denmark) apimo@post4.tele.dk Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Multilingual Beekeeping software since 1972 http://apimo.dk apimo@apimo.dk jorn_johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:27:25 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Bt Usage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, One thing about the use of Bt that confuses/concerns me is the fact that everyone says that it is used against "caterpillars" or the larval stage of the insect. By design and definition, honeybee larvae IS the caterpillar stage of the honeybee. This concerns me that it is designed to attack a specific time period in an insects life, but it is not SPECIES specific. I feel the same way about the use of Bt corn plants. No matter how much massaging and re-assuring Monsanto and other large seed producers do, I still feel that the pollen could pose a risk to all insects, not just Monarch butterflies, but bees as well. I find it difficult to believe that a non- species-specific product can be safe around insects that go through the same life cycles as those insects being targeted. Scott Visit the Jefferson County Beekeepers Association web site at: http://JeffersonCoBeekeepers.homestead.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:16:17 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Caldeira Subject: Making Foundation In-Reply-To: <200003200503.AAA10928@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is a good way for a small beekeeping operation to make wax foundation? I am looking for a low-cost mold or roller system that beekeepers have found to be practical. My preference is for a hand-powered tool, so that it can be used in rural locations without electricity. My initial thoughts are a waffle-style mold with a non-stick surface, if such a product exists. Years ago, I experimented with dipping boards and even coating cloth and paper with wax, but never got it right. Thanks, John John Caldeira Dallas, Texas, USA http://home.earthlink.net/~jcaldeira/beekeeping/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:39:56 -0500 Reply-To: ad012@osfn.rhilinet.gov Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frederick Chase Subject: Pierco frames Does anyone know why Pierco does not make a shallow plastic frame? Each year I hope they will be available but with no luck. I would order them immediately if I could, and I think many other beekeepers would also. Fred Chase ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:48:19 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: COMPETITION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Environmental News Network is conducting a poll today alongside the article on Jerry Bromenshenk's work that asks the following question: "Is it dangerous to move hives of bees around the world where they might interact with other bee species?" The response? 82% yes. 18% no. The intense negative focus on honey bees is apparent in the phrasing of the question to only cover the honey bee species (hives of bees), without broaching the question of moving around other bee species, like leaf-cutter bees (recently introduced in Australia) or bumblebees. A bumblebee will chew out the base of a flower evolved to be pollinated by another creature to steal the nectar and leave the flower unpollinated. Here's a clip from a recent post on the Bombus discussion group from Jim Cane: "Escaped Bombus terrestris have a solid foothold in Japan, as I understand it, and have established in Tasmania in the past several years (see papers by Andrew Hingston). Colonies sold by an Israeli vendor are active in Mexican greenhouses as you read this, greenhouses which I am told lack screened vents, and I gather that several South American countries are to receive colonies from that same source this year. There is hope that the colonies shipped to South Africa last year did not establish any feral populations." Interestingly, the generally upbeat feature on honey bees is illustrated with a picture of a bumblebee. Perhaps they have purged honey bee pictures from their photo files, which seems to be the case with many gardening publications that only show pictures of "native" pollinators these days. Where do these ideas come from? Here's a quote from the New York Times garden column (June 1st, 1997) by Anne Raver in an interview with Gary Paul Nabhan, co-author of "The Forgotten Pollinators." "Honeybees are nasty competition for the native pollinators -- because of their famous wiggle dance," he (Nabhan) said. "As soon as they find a tree, they dance their brains out, and soon 40,000 to 50,000 sisters are there -- tens of thousands of little mouths sucking up the nectar." This is hyperbole. I can't remember the last time I saw 40,000 to 50,000 honey bees pour over one tree. And as we've seen in a study in "The Hive and the Honey Bee" (Chapter 11) beekeepers report most of their bees' forage comes from introduced species, not natives. As described by Buchmann and Nabhan, honey bees seem to have more in common with cattle, sheep and plagues of locusts, than with other bee species. The article continues with the other author: "Everybody thinks about honeybees, but there are 5,000 species of native bees," Dr. Buchmann said. And they pollinate many crops far more efficiently than the honeybee, which is an import from Europe. "Blueberries, cranberries, eggplants, chilies, kiwis and tomatoes are all buzz-pollinated," he said. The anthers, those doodads that hold the pollen, "look like saltshakers with two holes," he said. A female bumblebee grabs hold of the anther with her mandible. She "curls her body around it, and the pollen comes blasting out the holes," he continued, adding, "It can harvest pollen five times faster than a honeybee." Some of the alternative pollinators are also imports from Europe (alfalfa leafcutter bees), and many others are imports from somewhere else—whether its from Japan or Asia or from west of the Rockies to east of the Rockies. We are a nation of pollination immigrants. If bumblebees can harvest pollen five times faster than a honeybee, imagine what competition it is to native pollinators when it is introduced outside of its native range. With its propensity to rob nectar and damage flowers without accomplishing fertilization, and its ability to sequester pollen resources with great speed, the bumblebee species deserve much closer attention than they are currently getting as potentially harmful invasives. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:49:24 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: AL Subject: Re: Making Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Caldeira wrote: > > What is a good way for a small beekeeping operation to make wax foundation? > I am looking for a low-cost mold or roller system that beekeepers have found > to be practical. My preference is for a hand-powered tool, so that it can > be used in rural locations without electricity. John, The Thorne catalog has a wax mould press that makes sheets up to 16 3/4" x 10 3/4". I have no idea how well it works. They claim you can make up to 60 sheets an hour. I have my doubts. You wouldn't be planning this for your TBH would you? :) AL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:39:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steven Moye Subject: Re: Bt usage Comments: To: smoser@RURALCOM.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bt's are not species specific, but order specific. They kill larval stages of the order Lepidoptera, which are the insects that undergo egg-larva-pupa-moth/butterfly. Honeybees are in the order Hymenoptera and are not affected, neither are houseflies which are in the order Diptera, etc. The Bacillus thuringiensis toxic causes a gastroenteritis in the larval stage which stops feeding. Most insects that feed on plants in the larval stage are from the order lepidoptera. Common examples include the corn earworm, bollworm, european corn borer, tobacco budworm, hornworm, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:33:10 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > "Everybody thinks about honeybees, but there are 5,000 species of native > bees," Dr. Buchmann said. And they pollinate many crops far more efficiently > than the honeybee, which is an import from Europe. > "Blueberries, cranberries, eggplants, chilies, kiwis and tomatoes are all > buzz-pollinated," he said. How many of the above mentioned plants are native to North America? I know that kiwis (Chinese gooseberries) are not. Why is it OK for a native bee to pollinate an imported plant? Is not it producing competition for native plants? If one species of native bee does better on an imported plant than another won't that species have an unfair advantage over the other species? Seems to me that if you want the 5,000 species of natives to live in pristine conditions then you had better get rid of those imported plants and only plant native species that those native bees are synonymous with. You might not get any food to eat but, hey, you will get a nice warm feeling in your belly that will overcome the hunger pangs, won't it? Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:46:17 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Re: Contract for Swarm removal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Randy, Are you looking for a contract dealing with swarm removal from trees or removal from stuctures? I don't charge for swarm removal from open spaces. I consider it a community service and use it as an opportunity to educate the public. After all the bees are worth $$$ to a beekeeper when in the clustered swarm state. I don't have to spend $$ buying package bees. Nature has already packaged them for me. :) However, I do charge for removing bees from stuctures - usually from $50-$100 depending on complexity of the task. I use the bait hive technique which works very well. The County Ag dept has put my name me on their special bee removal list. Let me know if you get a good looking contract that you can share with members of this list. Paul Cronshaw DC Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:25:12 -0600 From: R & S Adams Subject: Re: legal contract/swarm removal I am looking for a legal contract that I can use for swarm removal. A local beekeeper uses one and says I should have one too.....I think he wants to sell it to me...Anyone have any suggestions? He charges up to $200.00,so he says, and guarantees they won't come back or next time is free. Thanks in advance .....Randy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:38:03 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Farrington/Bequia Canvas Subject: Pierco frames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all; Fred Chase asked: >Does anyone know why Pierco does not make a shallow plastic frame? I asked exactly the same question of Pierco. Their reply was that the demand for shallow super foundation is simply not there. Brushy Mountain sells this - it appears to be full size foundation cut in half. I use plastic foundation cut in half for my shallow supers - I cut it myself - quite cost effective. Bob in Bequia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:55:53 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: COMPETITION In-Reply-To: <200003210407.XAA19710@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:48 PM 3/20/00 EST, John Mitchell wrote: I hadn't checked the web page, so I didn't know anything about this poll. Just to set the record straight, we have never said that we would take bees from the U.S. (honey bees or any other species, and spread them around the world). We have always anticipated that we would have to work with the bees already in the area of interest. This poll is a creation of ENN, not of our doing. Jerry > The Environmental News Network is conducting a poll today alongside the >article on Jerry Bromenshenk's work that asks the following question: >"Is it dangerous to move hives of bees around the world where they might >interact with other bee species?" > The response? 82% yes. 18% no. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:04:10 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Organization: Oregon VOS Subject: Re: Competition In-Reply-To: <200003210927.EAA26479@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I, an interested non-expert, have been following this thread with bemusement. My untutored self says to my better judgment that it's probably not competition among the pollinators at all. Rather, has anyone considered that loss of range, particularly mixed plant species range, is what's harming the native insects? Loss of range and competition with us is what's harming most dwindling species. Surely the same will hold true for the insect world. --------------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, fly tying benches | leave our kids a decent place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:23:50 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney" Subject: Re: Bt usage In-Reply-To: <200003210734.CAA24982@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Steven Moye wrote: > Bt's are not species specific, but order specific. They kill larval stages > of the order Lepidoptera... Strains of Bt also kill species of Diptera and Coleoptera, terrestrial and aquatic. Bt has no known effect on the honey bee. **************************************************************************** Tom Culliney Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture, Division of Plant Industry, 1428 South King St., Honolulu, HI 96814, U.S.A. E-mail: culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu Telephone: 808-973-9528 FAX: 808-973-9533 "To a rough approximation and setting aside vertebrate chauvinism, it can be said that essentially all organisms are insects."--R.M. May (1988) "Bugs are not going to inherit the earth. They own it now. So we might as well make peace with the landlord."--T. Eisner (1989)