From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jun 17 06:53:29 2000 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29395 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10464 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200006171053.GAA10464@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:09 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0004B" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 229257 Lines: 4928 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 16:30:53 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Mitchell wrote: > What if all beekeepers were required to register with the state apiary > inspection system? (This may already be true in some places) The beekeepers of Arizona decided to dump the entire inspection system about ten years ago, supposedly to avoid possible gov't. controls. > Provide documentation > of your regular requeening practices with pure European or Russian honey bees > (and inspections) Requeening seldom works in areas flooded with pioneer AHB swarms. Ask the Texas beekeepers. > > If beekeepers could enlist the state apiary inspection systems to come out > and inspect each season for AHB, and then provide certification that an > apiary was AHB-free, local authorities could be placated. Or beekeepers could > show documentation (provided by queen breeders) that they requeened regularly > with certified queens from European or Russian stock. > See above - how many queens per season are you willing to buy and see killed ?? > > > Here's another idea: What if a representative from the apiary inspection > program could come and out and talk to See above - the Arizona beekeepers don't seem to want any inspections > beekeepers) in an area: Use his credibility and authority as a representative > of the state ditto > > Lacking this type of vigorous state support, is there anything a local > beekeeper can do I wish I knew ..... > > requeen frequently. It's not a total guarantee that AHB won't move in, but > you'll know it immediately and correct the situation when it develops, the > argument goes. > Please, talk to commercial beekeepers in areas flooded with the AHB, then decide. > > experiment. Get the focus off the AHB and onto the good things that you are > doing with your bees that keep them from being Africanized honey bees. Or, possibly, learn to live with the AHB - it is difficult, but if you are going to be a beekeeper below the "frost line", this is the time to plan and learn. The opinions are mine, the lab is federal. ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Tucson, Arizona Lab webpage: http://198.22.133.109/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 19:41:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Ralston Subject: best way to remove a damaged super? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm a hobbyist beekeeper with one hive (yes, I know, I should have at least several, I'm working on it). My hive is about an hour's drive away (I live in the city and can't easily keep bees here), and the non-beekeeping aspects of my life keep me fairly busy, so I don't manage to visit my bees nearly as often as I'd like. Last summer, a bear knocked over my hive (2 deep supers). The supers stayed together and the cover stayed on, so the bear "scooped out" some of the frames from the exposed super. When I discovered this, I replaced the bottom board + slatted rack (the bear had dragged it off) and put the hive back together. (I was surprised at how calm the bees were during this--their hive had been exposed to the elements for almost an entire week before I was able to get there and take care of them, yet all I had to do was smoke them a little bit and they practically ignored me.) What I want to do now is replace the entire super that the bear damaged. (Some of the frames weren't damaged, but the frames in the damaged super were all frames that I'd put together when I had just started beekeeping two years ago, and didn't know to ALWAYS USE GLUE as well as nails when assembling frames.) What I'm thinking of doing is putting the new super on the very bottom, then putting the undamaged super in the middle, then the damaged super on top. But once the bees draw out the foundation in the new super, then the trick is how to get the damaged super off of the hive without 1) taking the queen with it, if she happens to be in there, and without 2) taking away brood / food. I was thinking of using Bee-Go to drive the bees out of the top super, then slapping on a queen excluder immediately underneath it (above the other 2 supers). Once any remaining brood hatched out, I could replace the excluder with a bee escape (or just use Bee-Go again), and remove the super. I'm guessing that if I put it out somewhere in my yard, the bees would find it and rob it out. Does anyone have any better ideas how to go about this? Thanks, James -- James Ralston, Information Technology Software Engineering Institute Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA, USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 21:23:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: beginning beekeepers working bees When starting out allways use smoke. Smoke the entrance and under the lid. When opening the top listen and observe. With smoke and careful motion all the bees have still got their tails in the air this is a bad sign. If a little smoke gets their tails down and everything seems ok but when you go to remove a frame and they make a slight roar this is a bad sign. Allways work from the outside to center to keep from mashing queen. Try not to mash any bees. Don't force frames down in the hive. Adjust the frames so the frames will slide in without mashing bees. If you are working your bees and many are buzzing and hitting your veil this is a bad sign. If everytime you remove a frame bees are flying up in your face this is a bad sign. Smoke any stings you recieve even if on your suit and you didn't feel the sting. Bees can be worked with all of the above carefully but if you are starting out best left alone to another day. Beekeeping should be a rewarding and pleasant experience. I have had the experience of cleaning up bear damage. Those bees are in a foul mood for weeks. If a beginner treats his bees with rough handling by dropping frames etc. then those bees will be in a bad mood next time the hive is opened if a few weeks haven't passed. Usually a bright sunny day is best and the middle of the day when the field bees are gone is best but use the above as a test of their mood before proceding. Many times beginning beekeepers blame the bees for their mistakes. Happy Beekeeping! Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 22:46:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Brood for sale? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/7/00 10:13:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, MaySimmons@AOL.COM writes: > What if no queen exists? Of course the bees will try to make one. Correct? Yes. Giving a hive a frame with eggs is a good test of queenlessness. If they don't have a queen in the making, they will draw cells. > > What I don't understand is why you want to add broad. Won't a new mated > queen lay eggs. The sealed brood provides hatching young bees to take care of the queen. Old bees tend to kill an introduced queen, or at least they don't take good care of her. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 09:47:11 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Hale Organization: The "B"ee Spot Subject: Re: AHB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All I am a South African Bee Farmer, who can only farm with, as it is called in the America's, "The African Killer Bee". In South Africa we have a few incidence with our bees, caused by someone doing something stupid. I have seen a lot of articals latley on protective clothing. Just out of interest sake visit some of the TOP BAR HIVE sites on the internet, and see what protective clothing is worn by African people while working these bees. I agree with some of my fellow members on this site that gloves should not be worn, as this forces you to be gentle and think what you are doing. Make no mistake there are times when I have to ware my gloves, for example when we harvest honey, but as a genral rule I do not need my gloves while working with my bees. Be gentle, use your smoker corectly (not a lot of smoke, but smoke applyed in the correct place). I find bee farming very relaxing (although a lot of work) and very stimulating, as a bonus I even make good money out of it. Before I farmed full time with bees, I worked in the fire servise for 17 years, this has enabled me to develop a system / technique to handle and control a swarm of AHB that has gone out of control. This system has been tried out by myself and my staff on a few occasions with great success. I have run a few sessions with local Fire Dept's using live bees. So far it takes about 7 minites to rescue a patient and about 30 to subdue the bees and bring them back under control. But with the main thing with any type of bee is to educate as many people about them so accidents don't happen. The AHB problem will never be removed from the USA, so as the world opens up so problems are spread from one country to another. As in nature you have to adapt to changing conditions or move on. I am not saying that the change is good or bad, but rather learn to live with it, what other occupation/ hobby can offer so much pleasure and hold so many rewards. Best Regards Mark Hale from not so dark Africa Hosts of Apimodia 2001 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 09:09:44 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Riach Subject: Queen Finding/Marking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having the queen marked, transforms manipulation and is well worth the effort. Finding queens is self reinforcing - very difficult the first time but gets easier the more often you have success. For sure it is easier early on in the year when there are less bees and they are less aggressive. I find the following method useful : Withdraw the frame and immediately start looking at the side which was next to the other frames (the dark side) Quickly look around the Periphery then more slowly look along the frame in roughly 2.5cm (1") strips, sweeping down strip by strip until the whole frame is covered . You can practice this on an A4 sheet of print onto which someone else has put an "out of position" full stop(period) This "moving strip" method is useful for finding any small object (such as that dropped screw from your spectacles which has landed on the heavily patterned carpet) If possible for the first time or two, it is useful if an experienced beekeeper can locate the frame with the queen on and hand it to you only with the information that the queen is on there somewhere. Once you have achieved it 2 or 3 times it will seem relatively straightforward (in a not too crowded Colony) Later on in the year with colonies "boiling over", finding the queen can be quite a challenge even for an experienced beekeeper. Using a Queen excluder to "riddle out" the queen is very stressful on the colony (and the beekeeper) and should only be carried out in emergency. Alan Riach ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 12:10:27 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Queen Marking In-Reply-To: <200004071827.OAA14636@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <200004071827.OAA14636@listserv.albany.edu>, Computer Software Solutions Ltd writes >I am of the opinion that finding and marking queens is an utter waste of time. snip >So all we have to do is to sieve the bees through a pristine queen excluder >and the objective is achieved. Yes it works. It can take up to 15 minutes a colony to do it though, and is very disruptive to the colony. Our first job on the hives each spring is to go through them all and find, plus mark and clip if necessary, ALL our queens. It takes a couple of weeks to get round them all, but it pays back handsomely later in the season when we need to combat swarming. Unmarked queens are much slower to find (even although we KNOW what box she is in, as we are on singles with excluders in the early half of the season). This easily doubles examination time at a critical phase. Unclipped queens can swarm earlier than clipped. They can go at the first opportunity, whereas, although they may try, clipped ones cannot, until they bail out at the last moment before virgin(s) hatch, onto the nearest bit of foliage above ground level that they can run to. You have a pretty good idea of the age of a queen if you use a colour code. It can seem like a futile task whilst doing it, but using our methods of colony control we could not cope in the peak season if we did not have marked queens. With practice it does become quite easy and quick. -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 10:23:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Feral colonies and storms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Matthew wrote: "Anyone whom has pulled out a feral hive with storm clouds rolling in can tell you how(in)effective bee suits are against angry bees." Here in Maine, many feral colonies are the nicest of bees. One of my favorite colonies was rescued from a lightning-downed tree as another cold front with violent thunderstorms and hail rumbled in from the NW. We just barely got them hived as the first big drops splattered down. They were a dream to work with and have been sweethearts ever since. Got to put in a good word for feral bees. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 11:33:11 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Edwards post clarifies several distinct issues: 1) Learning to live with AHB 2) Keeping beekeeping legal in areas where AHB is moving in—especially in urban and suburban areas. 3) A kneejerk impulse (or ideological bent) to smaller government that leads beekeepers to support the dismantling of state apiary inspection programs that could do them much good and be a great ally in dealing with the larger, nonbeekeeping community. I'll allow that there could be some legitimate criticism that led to dissatisfaction with the program, but I'd like to hear why that necessitated throwing it out, rather than fixing it. <> As cited in someone's earlier post, commercial beekeepers in rural areas will probably be largely unaffected by efforts to outlaw beekeeping. That battle will be fought by urban and suburban beekeepers—by and large, hobbyists where the viability of requeening could be important. I've heard of AHB swarms colonizing European hives, but my understanding is it's infrequent, and usually only happens to weakened colonies. I wonder if your conversations or source documents deal primarily with commercial beekeepers? "Infrequent" in a commercial operation could still be a lot of hives. Due to a hobbyist's reduced scale of operation, much more control is possible than for someone with a 1,000 colonies, or 10,000 colonies. A commercial operator cannot be constantly vigilant over that many hives and remain economically viable. He or she just has to accept AHB, and learn to live with it. My impression is that beekeeping studies rarely look at hobbyist operations, where the colonies are more likely to be near people and communities with no affiliation with agriculture—and where anti-beekeeping ordinances are much more likely. A few strong hobby hives with fresh young queens are not going to be very susceptible to colonization, unless my information about the susceptibility of European hives is incorrect. Furthermore, a hobbyist manages his hives differently from a commercial operator. Hobbyists are often criticized for going out to the hives every week or two and messing around. AHB colonization would be discovered fairly quickly under this kind of management scheme, and the situation could be promptly corrected. Of course, until the requeening was accomplished, the hobbyist would be working an AHB hive. This is why urban and suburban hobbyists are going to have to acclimate to the idea of working AHB hives too (as Mark in South Africa points out, this might not be as bad as we are making it out to be). How much money would I be willing to pay to cure an AHB colonization? Requeening twice over the course of a season will cost me $20 for 2 open-mated queens, $80 for 2 AI queens. Not enough to make me give up a hobby in which I've already invested a significant sum. <<...how many queens per season are you willing to buy and see killed ??>> We need to learn new techniques to succeed at this. I'd like to see a state extension or the USDA produce a document explaining how best to requeen an AHB colony with a European queen. Or post your experiences here. <> I'd like to hear from some Arizona beekeepers why they thought this was a good idea. The state inspector here in Massachusetts was a great resource to me when I started. My original plan was to keep hives in my urban backyard. I contacted Al Carle (our state inspector) who gave me very good information on urban beekeeping, and offered to come out and help me install my first packages. He made himself helpful and accessible. And by his offer, visible. (Ulimately, I installed the hives elsewhere without assistance). It was a reassurance to my uncertain city neighbors when I told them an expert from the state would be on-site to advise and assist me. <<...if you are going to be a beekeeper below the "frost line", this is the time to plan and learn.>> Do we know for certain and conclusively that AHB won't show up here above the frost line? Last I heard, that was educated conjecture, supported by a smattering of empirical evidence. I'd certainly like the public up here to think that... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 08:47:46 PST Reply-To: haymedhon@telus.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Hancock Subject: Bear fence batteries Question: Why don't battery manufacturers include operating and maintenance instructions with their product? I've been told that there are three types of liars: liars, damn liars, and battery salesman. Beekeepers have told me the following about deep cycle wet cell (recreational vehicle) batteries: 1. Never let a battery become fully discharged, or you'll wreck it. 2. Always discharge a battery completely before recharging it, or it will remember what it was drained down to last time before recharging and will only drain down that far the next time then sit there waiting for you to recharge it even though it's not fully discharged. 3. Never half charge a battery or it will remember being half charged and will remain half chargeable ever after. 4. Never fully charge a battery or you might over charge it. 5. Never set a battery on soil or it will suck the life blood out of it. 6. Never set one on concrete, it's worse than soil. 7. Always use distilled water when topping up the fluid in your battery. 8. Rain water is not distilled water. 9. Rain water is distilled water. 10. If you need to check a battery's fluid level at night do not use a lighter for illumination. 11. If you do use a lighter for illumination, when the battery explodes don't use the handy can of coke in your other hand, to wash the acid out of your eyes. (like batteries, eyes like distilled water) Sorting through this advice I buy distilled water for my batteries and try to keep them as fully charged as possible at all times. I also make sure they are sitting on wood. I spoke with a "battery expert" this year who told me the myth about concrete/dirt floors is sort of true. He claims it is only a problem if the floor is cold. Apparently if the bottom of the battery is cold, in relation to the top of the battery, then the electrolytes in the cold bottom will learn to hate the electrolytes in the warm top. They will then go to war and kill the battery in the process. Just in case this is true I'm keeping my batteries on wood. Despite all this I can still only get a battery to last five years at best. I use Galagher E-12 fencers and a solar charger. Has anyone had better success using fencing units with a built in battery and solar charger? And if you have some advice on battery maintenance I'd like to hear that too. I can add it to my list. Ted Hancock ================================================================= Internet service provided by telus.net http://www.telus.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 11:45:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: glbarbor@JUNO.COM Subject: Re: best way to remove a damaged super? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear James, I don't know how much of a hurry you are in to get your damaged super off, but I would let it go until next spring. You will have difficulty getting the bees to draw a super of foundation on the bottom, so I would place your damaged super on the bottom, then the undamaged one and then the foundation on top. By next spring, or sooner, the bottom will be empty and can be removed. I frequently remove boxes during my February inspection here in Eastern PA. The bees will be up top, and you will lose neither brood nor food. As an alternative, if the box has only food, you can place it above an inner cover and the bees will move it down. Jerry Barbor, York ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 19:33:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C.R. Crowell" Subject: Re: Spring Bee Yard Maintenance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where: Central New Jersey It's been consistently about 40 degrees (F) at night, in fact I usually get out earlier to rotate my hives, placing the more empty, and usually the bottom hive body on the top, and at the same time apply an extender patty. I had one winter loss that turned up weeks ago, a weak hive that ran out of stores. In the interim I feed syrup to some hives that seemed as though they could use a boost, and removed the mouse guards. Two hives were problematical: 1. Hive was particularly nasty two weeks ago, they the following week seemed OK - I saw some capped brood. Today I only found scattered drone brood, and no sign of the queen. They had access to syrup in a division feeder, but weren't taking it. I could not find a queen. I left them a new queen, and refilled the syrup feeder, at the same time stuffing the entrance with grass to make it tougher to rob. I would have put an entrance reducer on if I had one in the truck. Is it likely the old queen is gone? 2. Hive full, absolutely full of bees. Just a bit on the nasty side, and a few got up my veil becuase I neglected to zip the front of the suit all the way up. The strange thing is: no brood. No eggs, no capped brood, nothing. Every single frame had either pollen or honey, and the honey had granulated so in some cases they were down to "grains" remaining in each cell (no these were no eggs). No sign of a queen, and I did look at every frame once I realized I had no brood pattern. I requeened, leaving the hive with a boardman feeder, and removed several frames of "junk" leaving some frames with just foundation and others with clean drawn comb. In the process of doing my "rounds" this spring I end up with several full depth frames of drawn comb, some with pollen, some with honey, some empty. I will put new foundation into frames that are duragilt that have become spotty, or in the odd case frames where cells have dead bees. What is the best way to store the good frames of drawn comb so that the moths don't get into them, and any eggs already in them don't hatch? /Curtis Crowell ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 18:23:18 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Who's Herb? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For those of you who worry about accuracy of reporting - here's a new one. We found an article in one of the checkout stand papers that describes what appears to be our work. It has a picture on the cover of a bee with an electronic chip on its back. It names me, but puts me at the University of Minnesota - although there are Bromenshenks in that part of the world, mostly around St. Cloud, MN. And, through most of the article, someone named Herb (we will skip the last name in this post, but it is listed in the article) talks knowingly about the research, including its strengths, weaknesses, problems, etc. Herb claims to have helped design the work and says he is involved in training of the bees. But, there are a few problems, and I don't mean in the description of the work, which is pretty awful. 1. The insect wearing the chip doesn't exist - at least its not any chip that I have ever seen or worked on. 2. We haven't the foggiest idea of who Herb is. The article did say this was a hush hush project that was described at a press conference at the American Association of Science Meetings in D.C. about a month ago. Well, I was the one talking at the press conference - but this is hardly a hush hush project - it has gotten international press for well over a year. Maybe Herb is right, it is hush hush. So much so, that I didn't know Herb was working on it. Think I better get the contracts folks looking into this - wonder how much I've paid him. Anyway, my point is that this story is far removed from the truth. The worst thing is that most of us know enough to doubt the stories in some of the papers in the checkout stand racks - but the "reputable" press can be almost as bad. Cheers Jerry Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 11:15:54 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > How much money would I be willing to pay to cure an AHB colonization? > Requeening twice over the course of a season will cost me $20 for 2 > open-mated queens, $80 for 2 AI queens. Not enough to make me give up beekeeping. I'd like to see a state > extension or the USDA produce a document explaining how best to requeen an > AHB colony with a European queen. Or post your experiences here. I dug out my notes from the Austin,Texas ABF convention class on African bees by Texas beekeepers which had been living with AHB for awhile. They said in areas of large numbers of AHB feral colonies the taking over of colonies by AHB happened on a regular basis. A on going problem. Ways to tell if hives had been taken over: Many of the beekeepers said one way is that European bees light on landing board and walk in the entrance and AHB flies in the entrance. Another said he kicks each hive lightly and if the bees boil out the entrance its a positive sign the hive has been taken over. Paul Jackson-Texas State Entomologist gave us a card to measure comb to check cell size for a positive AHB diagnosis but only lab tests are truely correct. i am looking at the card now and it says 4.9 for AHB and 5.2 for European. Requeening? All Texas beekeepers said requeening is almost impossible with a established AHB colony. Like trying to requeen a laying worker colony. Many had wasted many queens trying. Most said the best solution was to divide the colony into three nucs and try to requeen those with a nuc of European bees. A few said they kill the entire colony and start back with a European nuc. All said they tried to remove AHB colonies from apiaries as soon as found. In Missouri in 1993 we passed a statewide ban on AHB in anticipation of their arrival. The document is long and developed over a couple years. The document basically outlaws the keeping of AHB colonies within the borders of the State of Missouri.The document gives the state bee inspector the right to dispose of those colonies. The document was ratified by a overwellming majority of our Missouri State Beekeeper Assn. and approved by our state people. The debate was long and we learned a huge amount about AHB from the discussions. The opinion of our states beekeepers was that we would eliminate AHB from our hives as long as possible. Perhaps a day would come when as in South Africa our efforts would be to no avail but until then we would do whatever is neccessary following the Texas beekeepers example. > <<...if you are going to be a beekeeper below the "frost line", this is the > time to plan and learn.>> In Missouri we thought seven years ago was the time. > > Do we know for certain and conclusively that AHB won't show up here above > the frost line? Last I heard, that was educated conjecture, supported by a > smattering of empirical evidence. AHB has certainly been able to survive in cold climates around the world from what i have been told. The main problem to their survial in cold northern winters seem to be their constant swarming making large populations neccessary to overwinter unlikely. It takes a fair amount of honey to overwinter in the north and many AHB feral colonys seem not to store the neccessary winter stores. Also without proper medications feral colonies are unlikely to survive a cold winter. ON THE OTHER HAND: AHB established in modern equipment,properly medicated by a unknowing beekeeper and fed heavily I BELIEVE could survive quite nicely! At least that was the opinion of the Missouri State beekeepers after hearing all the evidence. I'd certainly like the public up here to > think that... In Missouri we plan to educate the general public and focus on the positve aspects of beekeeping if or when AHB arrives. Not being honest with the general public or believing they are to dumb to understand doesn't work in our opinion. I didn't see any posts to your questions and comments so thought i would try. Happy beekeeping! Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 13:07:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jim & Sue Subject: Re: best way to remove a damaged super? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi James, IMHO, I would just shake the bees off the frames and take the super off. Replace it with whatever you want to put on it. Bee Go sounds unneeded to me when it could be done this simply and quickly. Good Luck Jim Maus ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 21:03:37 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines In-Reply-To: <200004091645.MAA03652@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 This is a thread that has run and run over and over again. Cold does not seem to be that important a factor in this bee, but something latitude linked, probably associated with day length or seasonality, certainly does come into play. In an earlier run of this discussion Garth Cambray pointed out that A.m.scutellata existed perfectly well up into the higher mountains in South Africa where frost and snow are not unusual. No african/africanised bees exist in their long time ranges in Africa and South America much north or south of a latitude of 30 to 35 degrees either side of the equator. They have had a very long time to spread in Africa, yet despite the opportunity to do so they have never fully travelled up through the continent to the land bridge to Europe, and at the south end of their range the small area of the Cape bee remains, and is generally stable. They have not travelled very far south in Argentina either, and have apparently come to a halt. You possibly do not need to look any further than a natural, possibly insignificant to us, factor being at work here which means they may be at, or close to, their limiting latitudes in North America. -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 17:33:55 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Queen Marking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is seldom that one actually needs to find the queen, it being sufficient from the presence of eggs to know that she was around very recently. However sometimes it is necessary and when this is so it is a great help if she is marked. It is usually the important occasions when the queen is at her most elusive and I too have on rare occasions riddled a colony through a queen excluder. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 21:40:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Organic Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, as quoted in a book published this year (The Landscaping Revolution, by Andy Wasowski), 21 million homeowners are annually applying over 25 million pounds of herbicides and 30 million pounds of pesticides to their residential lawns and gardens, and doing the applications themselves. The combined amount of pesticides used annually by untrained homeowners and professional applicators comes to 67 million pounds. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 21:42:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain In a message dated 4/7/00 5:05:28 PM, SPCherub@AOL.COM writes: << The problem I fear the most from the advance of the AHB is not from the bees themselves but from something the US has in spades compared to Mexico and South America- litigation. >> > Great point. Maybe if we could develop some strategies to deal with this >now, the irrational hyper-reactive types could be stymied in some places. > How about this for a strategy: One way to influence government is to wield >the credibility and authority of even bigger government. If beekeepers cannot deal with this themselves the involvement of government will only make things worse. The first thing one must consider is that in most states, even ones with billions of dollars in agriculture the "farmer" is not going to have the dollars that influence politicians. While many states have very good inspection programs (my home state of Florida being one of the best) the press given to these "killer bees" will most likely override their advice. A good example would be a case where a neighbor filed a complaint with city hall about a hive I had that was visible from the street. The city inspector came out and I explained that the bees were gentle and that they had been inspected by the state. His answer was that all seemed to be in order but if he received another complaint he would write me up for a "nascence" and the bees would have to go. Some adjustments to the fences have solved the problem at least for a little while. You can also be assured that your insurance is going to go up if they find out you have bees on your property in a "killer bee" zone. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 00:37:26 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: MatHig@AOL.COM Subject: turkeys? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't laugh too hard, this is a serious post. Do wild turkeys eat enough bees to be a problem? The past week or so, a flock has been hanging out in one of my apiaries, doing lots of scratching in the soil, probably just cleaning up dead bees (hopefully). I wished I had a camera Fri morning, there was 1 or 2 birds perched on top of each hive. All the hives appear to be quite strong, in need of splitting soon. I can't see any harm being done, but just wondered... Matt Higdon mid MO, mid USA redbud & dandelion in full bloom ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 16:43:03 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: [Fwd: AHB: gear and quarantines] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2F0A3F1BF17050B99CD2C84A" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2F0A3F1BF17050B99CD2C84A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------2F0A3F1BF17050B99CD2C84A Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <38EE71AD.FFD090D2@tucson.ars.ag.gov> Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 16:39:25 -0700 From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: flightdeck1@earthlink.net Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines References: <200004071830.OAA14884@listserv.albany.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matthew wrote: > where you try to press will 'help' with a hundred more stings. It's very > unnerving knowing these bees mean business by the thousands. > > If AHB are predisposed with temper as bees at their worst, can we blame > beekeepers dropping the biz once AHB arrives? Angry bees take all the fun out of > it. > > Matthew Westall > // Earthling Bees > >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" > \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA Matthew, you give a good description of a day in the new Arizona or Texas beeyard - how is it that your address is CO ?? Did the AHB sneak around the Grand Canyon when I wasn't looking ?? ------------------- John F. Edwards Tucson, Arizona Lab webpage: http://198.22.133.109/ --------------2F0A3F1BF17050B99CD2C84A-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 15:28:27 -0400 Reply-To: Mark Baird Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Baird Subject: Re: Brood for sale? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Along these lines, I'm an upstate NY hobbies one-hiver. I went in two weeks ago and found no brood or queen. I've already ordered a new one. Since then, the hive appears very active with lots of bees collecting, etc. I'm leaving them alone to do their thing. What are thoughts on whether or not I'll have a new queen made by the hive (obviously if there are no eggs I'm out of luck anyway, right?). Thank you. Get great info off this site. Mark Baird ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 13:17:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hank Mishima Subject: Re: best way to remove a damaged super? In-Reply-To: James Ralston 's message of Fri, 7 Apr 2000 19:41:32 -0400 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) How about just using a new deep box. Replace the damaged frames with new frames/foundation, place the good frames/comb in the middle of the new box and place the new frames on the outside. Jsut be sure the queen is not on any of the damaged frames. Shake the bees off the damaged frames into the new box which can be placed on top of your good box. -------------------------------------------------------------- To contact your elected officials see www.vote-smart.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 22:21:03 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Who's Herb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> That's true of bad policy at the EPA, and that's true of bad accuracy in the "reputable" media. The "reputable' press matters because, cynicism aside, people use it to make up their minds, sometimes against our interests. As for the checkout stand rags...You're lucky your work wasn't attributed to vampires or aliens :-). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:30:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Doug Schlichting Subject: Re: turkeys? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I don't have any experience with wild turkeys eating bees, but I raise turkeys for Thanksgiving. I used to let the turkeys wander around the beehives. I noticed that the turkeys would stand directly in front of the hive and eat as many bees as they could catch. The turkeys were getting stung, but it did not deter them at all. They seemed to really enjoy eating all those bees. I enjoy honey on my cooked turkey, but I was not looking to raise bee fed turkey. I have fenced off the hives now and the problem is solved. I don't know exactly how many bees were consumed, but it looked significant enough that it would put a dent in the foraging and guard bee population. Doug New Gloucester, Maine ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:42:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Who's Herb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: > > For those of you who worry about accuracy of reporting - here's a new one. You might also check Mark Winston's recent article concerning your work in Bee Culture. More grant envy than anything substantive. But that seems to be the norm for his articles. As far as seeing your work in print when you never submitted it for publication, an article- not written by me- was lifted directly from our Maine State newsletter by ABJ. Never got a call. And in another recent ABJ, saw a post I made to the sci.beekeeping newsgroup in The Classroom by Jerry Hayes. Never sent it to ABJ. No big deal, but bet if I lifted articles directly from ABJ for our newsletter or posted them on a website I would get a call. I just resigned as editor, but I used many posts from the BeeList for articles in the newsletter. In every case when I quoted directly, I got permission first and gave the poster- if he agreed- credit. Plus, sent a copy of the newsletter if they wanted one. Still waiting for my free ABJ. Bill T ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 07:59:37 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: turkeys? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MatHig@AOL.COM wrote: > > Do wild turkeys eat enough > bees to be a problem? I wished I had a camera Fri morning, > there was 1 or 2 birds perched on top of each hive. Hi Matt, I guess you should be glad they are not roosting on your head! Wild turkeys get brave in Missouri out of season! Kidding! Seriously i have never had a problem with birds. Put some blood meal or something which blows in the wind around the hives and they should leave the area. I have had shunk problems many times. They scratch up the boxes,eat many bees and make the bees in a bad mood all the time. Once i even had to move a yard because the skunks wouldn't leave the bees alone no matter what i did. Is it true like the old timers say if you pick a skunk up off the ground by his tail he can't spray you? A beekeeper told us once if you took a skunk and picked him up by his tail and walked as far as you could and thru him he wouldn't be back to bother your bees. i haven't been able to quite build up the nerve to try that approach to skunks in the bee yard! Bob harrison Missouri,U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:09:13 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Who's Herb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/00 8:47:26 AM, mister-t@CLINIC.NET writes: << I used many posts from the BeeList for articles in the newsletter. In every case when I quoted directly, I got permission first and gave the poster- if he agreed- credit. >> This seems a very good issue to talk about, because each of us that posts to Bee-l is publishing an article that will exist in what amounts to a public record long after we are gone. First, you may be confusing what a quote is vs. republishing. If you pick up an entire article and reprint it, you are republishing it and ought to get permission. If you print part of what somebody said or wrote, you are quoting. If you pick up most of an article as a long quote, it's a gray area between republishing and quoting. It's a judgment call. It helps if you put the quoted material in quotes. I've justed started doing that on my long quotes. Permission is not necessary to quote somebody who said something in a public place (like bee-l). Some people seem to think permission is required. No. You've said it in public and it's out there, influencing people's opinions and behaviors forever. It would be very bad form though to quote a private conversation in a public forum without letting you know I was quoting you first. I've exchanged emails with researchers privately that I thought offered some very good information or raised important points that i wanted to discuss with b-eel subscribers, but when asked, they said no. In that case, I ask if there is another source (published) that I can go to for an authoritative quote, or I try to bring the issue up on my own in a credible way that will merit consideration and a response from bee-l subscribers. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:31:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Quoting and Leaking and Diaries and Such In-Reply-To: <200004101513.LAA27785@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > It would be very bad form though to quote a private conversation in a > public forum without letting you know I was quoting you first... > I've exchanged emails with researchers privately that I thought offered > some very good information or raised important points that i wanted to > discuss with b-eel subscribers, but when asked, they said no... I'm glad we're talking about this. If endorsement or support for a position is implied from an innocent statement excerpted from a private or public writing, then one must walk a thin line and use exquisite judgement. For publications, as I understand it, there are legal rules in place as to how much one can quote without attribution or permission. Context is important too. However, most of us are not too worried about the legal aspects compared to the moral questions, and usually making a good moral call leaves us on the safe side of the law. Not always, but usually. The way I usually deal with the whole question is this: instead of pestering people about permission I simply do not name names or even quote, unless I am sure that the person in question has consented or would be pleased. In most cases there is no real reason to drop names or identify sources, and I either paraphrase or allude to the statement, or use a short quote and attribute to 'a bee researcher' or 'a friend' or such. The sensitivity of the information being used must also be considered. There are things that are pending and not decided that a correspondent in a sensitive position may have personal opinions about and express in private, but not ever want revealed in public. We must sometimes keep secrets. There may be breaking stories that are on hold until everyone concerned gets a chance to comment and get on-side. In such cases, some of us are privy to this information and must use our judgement and not 'leak', or, if we feel encouraged to do so by our source, must write discreetly without betraying the source. As far as people or magazines using my own writing is concerned, I offer it freely, the only stipulation to those quoting is that they must not alter my intent by editing or cutting. If I am quoted and my work is changed in any way I reserve the right to examine the result before printing if I am identified with the piece anywhere. And, as for my writing, lately I have been putting most of my work into the diary pages I have started and the occasional post to sci.agriculture.beekeeping -- which, incidentally has been really good lately. s.a.b. covers lots of beginner stuff and chatter which is interesting but does not really belong here. With the diary project, those who don't appreciate my rambling aren't bothered by it and those who enjoy it can. I can also use lots of good close pictures and explain things in detail. Come visit at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ and select 'A Beekeepers Diary'. Also, if you are trying to get s.a.b. and haven't figured out how, I have a whole page dedicated to s.a.b in my menu at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ (left side). Regards all, allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:46:55 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: turkeys? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matt, I don't know about turkeys, but I keep chickens in the same "horse corral" where I have my hives. The birds do NOT show any interest at all in eating even crawling bees. Spiders and other insects, yes - bees no. Hope the same is true of turkeys. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:33:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Subject: Re: Quoting and Leaking and Diaries and Such MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you write it and put your name on it, there is a de facto copyright attached. It is incumbent on anyone using your work to seek your permission which you may or may not grant with or without conditions. It is my understanding that the jury is still out on whether publication (posting) in various forums on the internet is the equivalent of publishing in print. The reality is that it's harder to control what you put on the net. All of that having been said, one should always credit the source. It is the honest thing to do and serves as a defense if the author takes exception to your use of his material. And unless the material quoted is relatively short and a small portion of the original work, permission must be obtained. Allen Dick wrote: > > It would be very bad form though to quote a private conversation in a > > public forum without letting you know I was quoting you first... > > > I've exchanged emails with researchers privately that I thought offered > > some very good information or raised important points that i wanted to > > discuss with b-eel subscribers, but when asked, they said no... > > For publications, as I understand it, there are legal rules in place as to how > much one can quote without attribution or permission. Context is important too. > However, most of us are not too worried about the legal aspects compared to the > moral questions, and usually making a good moral call leaves us on the safe side > of the law. Not always, but usually. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 19:03:12 -0500 Reply-To: lkrengel@mc.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Krengel Subject: change of pace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Truesdell wrote: > You might also check Mark Winston's recent article concerning your work in > Bee Culture. More grant envy than anything substantive. But that seems to > be the norm for his articles. Rather stinging, I think. Not being the academic entomologist, I am perhaps not sensitive the the grant competition, but I have found I enjoy Mark Winston's column largely because it is a change of pace from the how-to articles that predominate (justly) BC and ABJ. I suppose it is the same reason I lend my copy of Richard Taylor's Joys of Beekeeping to the newcomers. It really does not tell you how to keep bees, but it does tell you about beekeeping. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 17:48:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Quoting and Leaking and Diaries and Such MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 4/10/00 2:58:02 PM, allend@INTERNODE.NET writes: << In most cases there is no real reason to drop names or identify sources, and I either paraphrase or allude to the statement, or use a short quote and attribute to 'a bee researcher' or 'a friend' or such. >> I provide attribution so that if someone wants to research something I have referenced for their own use, it's possible. They don't have to take my word for it. Also, if someone wants to make sure I didn't misquote a source or otherwise make a mistake. It's especially important to quote and attribute on bee-l if you are correcting inaccurate information so that later, if someone is doing an archive search, the error and the correction will show up in the same search. I've been contacted off-list several times by subscribers concerned my feelings might be hurt when they contended that I had made an error or was way off base on something. People are trying to do the right thing, but it's a much worse matter to leave inaccurate information uncorrected. I realize list members are doing everybody (and me) a favor when they correct such information. More often than not, it turns out to be a difference of opinion rather than a true error. But different opinions are valuable too. Richard Yarnell wrote: <> Paraphrasing works too. Long quotes are good when bringing important information that would be valuable for a bee-l discussion or may even be critical for beekeepers—science or public affairs that affects the very lives of your colonies. Sometimes I come across information that's only accessible through paid services, so I know that if I don't quote long the information probably won't be accessible to other list members at all. I try to strike a balance in this gray area between disseminating valuable information and protecting myself. The actual news in many stories that appear in newspapers only inhabits a relatively small slice of the story near the top, and the rest of it is background, elaboration, and "quotes for color and entertainment." Much of that can be left behind. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:43:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Everyone, ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us >>> LJW2974@ACS.TAMU.EDU 04/07/00 09:14AM >>> John Mitchell asks: "Is there anybody on the list who operates in Texas and has some more information about how this quarantine works? Obviously, it means you can't take colonies out of the quarantine area, but can you move colonies around within the quarantine area?" " I'm not a commercial beekeeper, but I know Paul Jackson (State Apiary Inspector) and others who are familiar with the quarantine, and that is what I have heard: you cannot move bees out of the quarantined area into an area that is free of AHB, but you CAN move them anywhere within the quarantined area. " Actually, you can move colonies out of the quarantine area if they are tested and certified as european by TX inspection service. The require the use of european queens from outside the quarantine area and will sample and test bees from the hives before the colonies are allowed to leave the quarantine area. The idea is to allow reasonable movement but not move AHB. blane ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:14:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C.R. Crowell" Subject: Re: turkeys? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have on occassion seen blue jays making sport of picking off bees at the entrance to the hive. Presumably they can be quite tasty if properly seasoned with nectar and/or pollen. /C.Crowell ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:21:47 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Kevin P. Sargent" Subject: Re: turkeys? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit my sister lives in york, me and she has the same problem with wild turkeys. the hen teaches the poults in the summer how to go to her 2 beehives and pick up bees that land at the entrance and eat them. she has to chase them across her 40 acre field. kevin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:33:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Bee-L post : opinion,experience or quote Over the last 40+ beekeeping years i have entered into to many debates with my fellow beekeepers. In the early years i lost most the debates with the "old timers". With each decade i did better. When i started to debate beekeeping questions with researchers i had to learn the above. To write beekeeping articles i had to learn those three rules. Opinion: Gives me the most freedom. Beekeepers say i keep bees different than any person they ever met. I say "there are many ways to keep bees and all work to different degrees". We can agree to disagree. experience: Its amazing to me when in a room full of beekeepers how quiet it gets when a beekeepers actual experiences are talked about. OK! I get quiet also as those are the things not usually in the books. I have learned more beekeeping secrets by listening than talking. quote: I like to use quotes but allways try to quote the book and even the page number plus author if possible. I have wrote many beekeeping articles over the years and haven't had a quote problem yet. I like to quote from "The Hive and the Honey bee". If i only had one beekeeping book i would want the hive and the honey bee. With over 30 authors i feel the book is safe to quote from and most beekeepers can look up the information for themselves if they think you are incorrect. Its the ideal book to resolve many beekeeping disputes. Ask every beekeeper in a room the same question and see how many different answers you get but they all work to the same end. Happy beekeeping! Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:48:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darrells Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Murray McGregor Wrote > You possibly do not need to look any further than a natural, possibly > insignificant to us, factor being at work here which means they may be > at, or close to, their limiting latitudes in North America. Do migratory beekeepers stop at the 35th parallel? Will Amarillo, Albuqueque, Flagstaff and Bakersfield never get AHB? Why would a Canuck at 44 degrees north be worried? Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 80W 44N ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:57:14 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, Having worked with AHB in Costa Rica, Panama, and Brazil, I was going to write you a LONG, LONG reply stating that you needed more knowledge about the AHB and the public fear of bees, and I delayed the writing thinking of how to do it without offending you. I am glad that I waited; because some other responders have said many of the things I would have said. However, would like to mention several points. The great majority of our bee inspectors all across the entire country have never worked with AHB; and it is my belief that they would quit their job if AHB came into their area. Now in 2000, quite a few states have either minimized or discontinued bee inspection supposedly due to the successful control of AFB disease, but I think the real reason is the voting public AND HENCE THE POLITICIANS, have zero interest in honey bees and wish they would just go away from their state. Hollywood movies with the inherent lies about "killer bees" have literally frightened the ADULT American public to the point that almost all would be most happy to see the demise of all honey bees, and depend on imported honey for those you want honey. Haven't you noticed in conversations that literally ALL adults state that they are ALLERGIC to bee stings. Nobody said this 50 years ago. Today the biggest concern of the beekeeper is the fact that he is going to be ZONED out of beekeeping in his town, county or even state by the fear of the public about bee stings and hence he desire of the politicians to collect their vote. The worst part about it is that most beekeepers are reluctant or too lazy to speak up in public, in schools, at town meetings, etc., about the value of honey bees notably in human food pollination. I won the famous Devilbiss Award in 1998 for talking to 6000 school students about the value of bees. Maryland has over 4 million people, but I talked to only 6000, and no one else talked at all. That might mean a vote against beekeeping of 6000 for and 3,994,000 against. I think the commercial beekeepers are "laying low" and being very quiet in fear of being put out of business by the vote of a poorly informed electorate. Having kept bees for 68 years, maybe I shouldn't worry about it because I will be dead, but that is just not my nature. Stupidity, dumbness, or lack of knowledge is never an excuse for anybody's actions; but I think that the lack of beekeepers getting on their soapboxes and explaining the value of apis mellifera to the American public is almost sinful; and I get frustrated when someone says "let GEORGE do it," because maybe they mean ME. I hope I have helped. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:55:23 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: Re: beginning beekeepers working bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, Working bare handed is a test of will and faith for a new beekeeper. As a new beekeeper I used gloves and found it awkward and clumsy. More experienced beekeepers did not wear gloves and did not get stung very often. I have a beekeeper friend who is determined to NEVER get stung. I can not talk her into working gloveless even though I do that while working with her side by side. The following is a good way to begin working bare handed and at the same time avoid most stings. Not all, but most of them! Save the ashes from your smoker. I use the ubiquitous pine needle as fuel. It smokes like crazy and is free for the raking. Pour cold ashes from your smoker into your hands and rub them into your skin like you were washing your hands. No need to apply any water. Use ashes only. Turn your hands black with the stuff making sure you applied ashes between your fingers. Any bee landing on your hand will not remain there long. Yes, you can squeeze a bee accidentally and it will sting you. You will be more deft of hand in handling frames. You will find yourself working slower and more carefully, thus irritating the bees less, resulting in fewer stings. I am usually surprised by how few stings I get. I often resort to deliberately placing bees on my arms to take a few stings. I do this because I usually swell up when my sting quota is low. If I take stings on a regular basis I don't swell up as much. Try the ashes trick, you wil be happy you did. Ernie Gregoire "Beekeeper," definition= partially brave, partially excentric Grist Mill Apiary Canaan, New Hampshire, USA ------------------------------------- 04/08/99 09:55:23 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:26:09 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: Re: Queen Marking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, To mark or not to mark! I have wrestled with this every time I requeen. Does marking help? It helps to quickly identify which frame a queen is on so that the frame is treated with utmost care. Identifying a present year queen is not an issue for me, because I clip her wings. A queen with a full wing span is not the store bought queen I put in there earlier, so this makes marking a moot point. Not every day is sunny, and looking through screening with bespectacled old eyes make spotting the queen more difficult than it once was. Exerience has made up for some of this difficulty, but I must say that a moving white dot in a sea of black is infinitely easier to locate. Ernie Gregoire "Beekeeper," definition= partially brave, partially excentric Grist Mill Apiary Canaan, New Hampshire, USA ------------------------------------- 04/08/99 09:26:09 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:07:43 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Queen Marking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom, I am a little surprised at hearing this discouragement about marking queens from YOU! EVERYBODY should have MARKED queens, so they really KNOW (rather than guessing) what is going on in their colonies. For example, many eminent bee researchers and bee scientists have written that up to 60% of all queens are superseded before they are a year old under some conditions. If your queen is not marked, is the queen that you see on September 1st or July 4th the same queen that you saw on April 10th? Accepting all that is written that Carniolans are the most gentle of all bee races, if your newly purchased Carnie queen is not marked, and your bees get nasty in July, maybe your Carnie queen swarmed or was superseded and her daughter bred with nasty drones thereby producing nasty workers. In the past 20 years, research has well proven that "the younger the queen, the less swarming you will have" because the ability of a queen to produce the queen pheromone that inhibits swarming diminishes each day of her life beginning from the day of her breeding. Hence, many beekeepers have changed their management style to requeening EVERY year, and some of the large commercial migratory beekeepers requeen twice each year to maintain their populations as well as to inhibit swarming. Speaking for myself, I switched from Italians to Carniolans 52 years ago to take advantage of their EXPLOSIVE early spring population growth, and was FORCED to learn ALL ABOUT SWARMING for which the Carnie is well known. Long ago, I learned to requeen every year was a GREAT help in swarm prevention. A MARKED queen is SO MUCH EASIER TO SEE than an unmarked queen, particularly in your black bees like Carniolans or Caucasians. I know of no reason NOT to mark a queen, and several good reasons for marking a queen. By the way, when I see an unmarked queen in one of my 100+ colonies, I than know that those bees are no longer 100% Carniolan, so I then mark that queen SILVER (GREY) so I don't use that colonies production figures in my honey production records, plus I use that queen in one of my Observation hives for the county fair in August. Keep your queens MARKED, Tom! I hope I have helped. George ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:55:26 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Kevin P. Sargent" Subject: Re: (florida inspections) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A gentleman stated that the state of florida has one of the best bee inspections? I would have to beg to differ with him! If all the state's in the USA had any bit of a (tight) inspection program. THEN the (hive beetle) would have stayed in it's original finding state and not transported into the other states that the migratory hives traveled to. The same goes for most states that ARE suspose to be inspecting those migratory hives that enter into their state. Hives that are found to contain pests and diseases should be sent back to their originating state--BAR NONE. kevin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:50:51 +1200 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Varroa found in New Zealand In-Reply-To: <199910221236.IAA01260@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This is a sad one for me personally to be reporting to this list, but I would like the dissemination of the information to be accurate, complete and timely. New Zealand beekeepers have always prided ourselves on our pest and disease status, our openness and our honesty. Though this announcement makes a dent in the first, the second and third remain. 5:30pm local time Tuesday (about 3 hours ago as I write this...) Diagnosis of Varroa jacobsoni This is to advise that today, we have ceased to export live bees because of an outbreak of Varroa jacobsoni. Exports will cease until the extent of this disease is defined. At least six affected apiaries have been identified so far in the affected area in South Auckland. It will be necessary for tracing activities and movement controls to be imposed before MAF will be in a position to know how we can certify exports where Varroa freedom is required. This is complicated because some of the infested hives were "dead" which indicates quite a longstanding infestation. We have identified that certification has been issued and consignments that are in transit. We are in the process of notifying the importing countries concerned. We expect to be in a position to advise on the future of export certification within a day or so. Jim Edwards National Manager International Trade Biosecurity Authority Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry P O Box 2526 Wellington -------------------- Tel +64 4 474 4138 Fax +64 4 474 4227 (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz 'Order' files from an autoresponder... Feeding Sugar to Bees? Email to: feeding@beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:03:26 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines In-Reply-To: <200004110419.AAA21904@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 >Do migratory beekeepers stop at the 35th parallel? Of course not. My point really was addressed at the likelihood of the bees becoming ESTABLISHED outside their apparent viable range. No doubt they could quite easily be brought into any area by migratory beekeepers, and would probably do fine in the summer, but for whatever reason something stops them establishing outside that range permanently. They have not apparently done so in Argentina (perhaps a local respondent out there could add their comments on this) which also has migratory beekeeping. I should imagine that regular (both assisted and natural) incursions north of their line will take place every year, followed by dying back in the winter. (As an aside, migratory colonies could be well on their way back south before this phenomenon kicks in, possibly leaving genetic havoc in their wake amongst resident colonies in the north.) Exactly where that line will lie in a North American environment remains to be seen however, but the slow down in their progress since crossing the US border from Mexico could be highly significant. Once the position is static it could be possible to look at the possiblity of certain areas being included in a quarantine set up of some kind. Being commercial and migratory myself, albeit in a country with no AHB risk, I can sympathise with migratory beekeeprs and the problems they could encounter if cut off from either their honey crops or traditional wintering areas, and even more so with the problems that could be encountered administering the pollination of the almonds. It is quite a complex issue. -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 08:40:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: (florida inspections) Comments: cc: MAPLEHILLSUGAR@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/11/00 3:43:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, MAPLEHILLSUGAR@AOL.COM writes: > Hives that are found to contain pests and diseases should be sent back to > their originating state--BAR NONE. I read this as almost an attack on the migratory system. I don't know where you are, Kevin, but your screen name would imply you are in the northeast. Are you prepared to provide the bees that are needed for the northeastern orchards? You have little understanding of the pressures that face a migratory beekeeper, but, if you put him out of work, you will also sink the orchards. In fact, I know of one such case that happened during the tracheal mite quarantines. The southern inspector was slow, and the tractor trailer load of bees weren't released until nearly petal fall in the orchard where they were scheduled to pollinate. Whether we like it or not, the fruit industry has made drastic changes, in the form of concentrating more and more into favorable areas and abandoning others. When I was a boy, there were small orchards all over upstate NY and northern PA. But many of these growers lost crops to spring frosts, or just couldn't compete, because soil types, drainage, etc, just weren't the best. Most of these orchards are gone today, and the local fruit supply comes from a narrow band of intense fruit production along the south shore of Lake Ontario, where they have frost protection and ideal soils. Meanwhile the beekeepers, having to service these concentrations of orchards, are having a harder time keeping up the supply. Winter losses are rising, and overwintered bees often are just not ready for fruit bloom anyway. The good pollinator wants his bees built up FOR apple blossoms, not building up ON apple blossoms. New York requires about 30-35,000 hives for spring fruit, the last I heard. Maine requires about 50,000 for blueberries. A large proportion of these bees come from the south. The beekeepers usually did not chose to migrate for any reason but that this was the only way they could survive. Bees could be built up in the south, and be "raring to go" when they reached northeastern orchards. Many of the winter losses could be alleviated by southern winter homes. Bees have almost continuous brood rearing, so the bees in the spring are all young bees. Plus they get a good supply of fresh pollen to dilute and allow the cleansing of stored contaminated pollen. Much of the winter loss in overwintered bees in the fruit, vegetable and hay growing regions is not truly winter loss, but is pesticide losses. Contaminated pollen is stored and covered, then the bees begin to use it during the winter, when they are most vulnerable. So we have two opposing trends; fruit is concentrating into fewer areas, which are then requiring larger amounts of bees for pollination. At the same time fewer and fewer local bees are available. Whether you like it or not, migratory beekeeping has become the solution for this problem. The system is vulnerable, but it is all we have today. Anything that interferes with this migration -- quarantines, pokey inspectors, rules and regulations has the potential to kill our fruit industry. (Al Gore would love this; he says all our food will be grown "offshore." He and his cronies, of course, don't remember WWII; probably most of them don't even remember the oil embargo!) So, Kevin, you get those big, bad migratories sent back south. Or set up a cumbersome bureaucracy, that has little understanding of agricultural deadlines. Then YOU pollinate the orchards. I expect Allen Dick and Dave Eyre to point out that this *can* be done, and I agree. If the africanized bee were to be established in the southeast, and the annual migration were to be ended by paranoid restrictions, this will happen. But the dismantling of our present migratory system would cause enormous disruptions, causing a lot of folks the loss of their livelihoods, both on the grower side and on the beekeeper side. Both systems are already under too many strains to withstand much more. Dave Green Hemingway, SC The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 06:35:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: (Florida inspections) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > the (hive beetle) would have stayed in it's original finding state and > not transported into the other states that the migratory hives traveled to. I believe the small hive beetle was first discovered on US soil in South Carolina. Inspection program or not, you are not going to contain migratory beekeepers. They are a group that prides themselves on their independence. Aaron Morris - thinking don't fence me in! PS: For the record, not a migratory. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 09:20:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murray McGregor wrote: > I should imagine that regular (both assisted and natural) incursions > north of their line will take place every year, followed by dying back > in the winter. (As an aside, migratory colonies could be well on their > way back south before this phenomenon kicks in, possibly leaving genetic > havoc in their wake amongst resident colonies in the north.) - > Murray McGregor I have asked the same question of the experts when they visit Maine for our Annual Meetings. Why is there a limit to the AHB migration in SA? The answer is they do not know, but there are plenty of guesses. The one that makes the most sense is the nature of AHB to abscond and swarm often. The experts say that AHB casts off more swarms than EHB and absconds more. Picture that trait in a northern bee and it would have much less chance of surviving the winter- less stores and possibly poor hive habitat. I know that if a hive swarms in the fall in Maine, it has increased its chance of winter failure greatly, usually to near 100% unless the beekeeper intervenes. It seems to also track with the fact that there is a transition zone in SA where the AHB decreases as the EHB increases as you go south. Some AHB would survive the winter, but in lesser numbers as it gets colder. EHB survives in greater numbers as it gets colder so more EHB drones are available to increase the likelihood of EHB dominance. This is in line with Murrays guess of the ebb and flow with summer and winter. As far as migratory beekeepers wrecking havoc, there were 60,000 migratory hives in Maine this year which came from all over the South and West. Some will eventually have AHB and swarm. If a beekeeper hives the swarm, I have been told it will over winter just fine in Maine, if managed properly with fall feeding. But, the feral colonies it creates should meet the same fate as those in SA, so I doubt if AHB will dominate in colder climates like Maine. Here EHB would have the genetic advantage. It will also be interesting to see what happens in that transition zone. You will have AHBs advantage of earlier queen emergence against EHBs winter tolerance. Where you have equal strengths, will EHB shift to earlier emergence to compete, and will AHB shift to lees absconding and swarming? It could be a geneticists dream to study the genetic warfare that will be going on. All guesses, but interesting. Bill Truesdell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 09:30:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: (Florida inspections) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/11/00 5:47:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, AMorris@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU writes: > I believe the small hive beetle was first discovered on US soil in South > Carolina. Yup, Clemson had samples quite a while (I think a couple years) before it was identified in Florida. It is thought to have arrived on fruit, not bees. > > Inspection program or not, you are not going to contain migratory > beekeepers. They are a group that prides themselves on their independence. You may be on to something there, Aaron. ;o) Commercial beekeepers have taken their lumps from the various pests. But they don't like taking more lumps from official interference. One beekeeper put it this way, in the era of tracheal mite quarantines.... "When everyone has tracheal mites, our problem will go away." No one has expressed that yet about the beetles, at least not to me. Dave Green Hemingway, SC The Pollination Home Page http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:01:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: (florida inspections) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >I would have to beg to differ with him! >If all the state's in the USA had any bit of a (tight) inspection program. >THEN the (hive beetle) would have stayed in it's original finding state and >not transported into the other states that the migratory hives traveled to. The first hive beetle was not found in Florida but appears to have first arrived in South Carolina. It is not known if the hive beetle infestation in Florida came from South Carolina or was an independent introduction. If it did come from the Carolinas it may not have been transpored by beekeepers but could have traveled in a shipment of fruit. The spread of hive beetle has been from both migratory beekeepers as well as package producers. I doubt any state's program is looking for every potential introduction of a new pest. There are just too many possibilities. What they are doing is trying to help the current beekeepers stay in business. That means educating, inspecting and rolling up their sleeves (maybe rolling down their sleeves would be a better term when dealing with bees :) and working alongside the beekeepers. Current things being watched for are new species of mites and the Cape honey bee. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 09:10:50 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George, Now in 2000, quite a few states have either minimized or discontinued bee > inspection supposedly due to the successful control of AFB disease. Excellent point George! In Missouri we are seeing a rise in cases of American Foul Brood. I personally haven't yet. Both the documented cases have come in commercial yards using Terramycin. Both beekeepers say they treated with three treatments at proper intervals. Both had been using Terramycin as a prevention spring and fall for as long as they can remember(as per our best beekeeping researchers). Dr. Shiminuki told me last year resistance to Terramycin by AFB is a reality in the U.S. now. Shim is working on a new antibiotic to curb the problem and should be available soon. My opinion: 1978 was the last year i saw AFB in my yards. I talked to the "old timers" and then went to my yards a dug a hole and burned any frame which looked like it might contain AFB. I stacked the boxes and toasted the insides as per "Hive and the Honey Bee". I took a propane torch to the tops and bottoms. End of problem! In the old days the above was required by bee inspectors. NOW they can treat with Terramycin while the problem grows larger. One of the above beekeepers removed and burnt 200 frames of AFB. My yards border his to the north and the other beekeepers yards border mine to the west. We are a close knit group in Missouri and both told me as soon as they found the AFB. The problem to me is as important as if they were my own hives. Why? Because AFB crashes hives FAST. Almost destroyed beekeeping in the 1940s in U.S.. As those beekeepers hives weaken the strong colonies rob the weak and bring AFB spores right into other apiaries. Mine included. Many bee equipment suppliers tell the beginners that with new equipment they don't have much to worry about. That statement has been true for quite a while but if we don't get a handle on the problem and switch to a different antibiotic the beginners might be burning new equipment. You have got to get rid of those spores! That wa the lesson we learned in the 1940s. Lets learn from our mistakes and nipe this problem in the bud before it becomes a major beekeeping problem. Check your hives very carefully this spring. If you find a hive which has died don't put bees back in and treat with Terramycin. Burn frames and sterilize equipment. Even if Dr. Shim comes up with a new antibiotic the spores will still be there. Its been two months since we burnt equipment in Missouri and we are not seeing any AFB. AFB is not a serious problem in U.S. yet but could quickly become one if ignored. happy beekeeping! Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:04:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: News on AHB's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, There will be a segment on the NBC network news tonight on AHB's in the = USA.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 07:37:33 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: (florida inspections) In-Reply-To: <200004111246.IAA27672@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > So, Kevin, you get those big, bad migratories sent back south. Or set up > a cumbersome bureaucracy, that has little understanding of agricultural > deadlines. I expect Allen Dick and Dave Eyre to point out that this > *can* be done... But the dismantling of our present migratory system > would cause enormous disruptions, causing a lot of folks the loss of > their livelihoods, both on the grower side and on the beekeeper side... I hear my name mentioned here. I'm not sure what I am supposed to say. I hope I am not expected to support arbitrary restrictions based on fear and ignorance and bloated beaurocracies, because I don't. I can, however say, yes, I have seen it done -- and it ain't pretty. ...And it stays forever. When Canadians first considered an embargo on bees from the USA many years back, because of tracheal mites, my predictions of the outcome of border closure were pretty much what Dave describes. Border closure, when it came, did a lot of damage to Canadian beekeepers and the supporting suppliers. It also did some good for those who were prepared. Did it ever do enough good to justify the pain? Or did it do more damage than the mite it slowed down? I doubt that question will ever be truly resolved. To this day, Alberta does not strongly support national or provincial border closure and insists on reconsidering the issue annually -- much to the annoyance of the rest of Canada. Alberta Beekeepers, when faced with these lose/lose decisions, weigh the options very carefully and try to chose the path of least pain and damage and greatest opportunities over one of 'high principle' and restrictions of personal liberty and opportunity. In Alberta, individual freedom of opportunity is cherished over some vague idea of 'general good' and unless hard facts are there to prove that a restriction on movement will result in a very obvious and tangible benefit to beekeepers and the population at large, it gets turned down every time. Let them truckers roll - 10-4! allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:26:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: (florida inspections) Comments: To: MAPLEHILLSUGAR@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/11/00 7:06:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, MAPLEHILLSUGAR writes: > I WOULD LIKE TO REFER TO THE N.H. BEE LAWS: > > AGR 1803.01 MOVING BEES INTO N.H. > > IT TALKS ABOUT BEES BEING MOVED THROUGH THE STATE-WHICH SHALL > BE ACCOMPIED BY A CERTIFICATE OF INSPECTION (WITHIN 30 DAYS PRIOR) > TO BEING MOVED INTO N.H.. > NOW ALL OF THOSE HIVES HEADED TO MAINE GO THROUGH N.H. (LETS > MEET THEM AT THE STATE LINE AND HAVE A LOOK?. SOMETHING N.H. IS > NOT CAPABLE OF DOING. Exactly! And how many hours does the truck have to be parked in the hot sun waiting on the inspector to shuffle papers? Happens too much now at the scales... A parked load can arrive a dead load. California fire ant inspectors have parked loads long enough to cook them. Moving bees is one of the toughest jobs in the world. It can involve 30 or more hours of work without sleep. Any delay significantly increases the risk of it all being for naught. Dave Hemingway, SC (not a migratory beekeeper anymore; it's for younger guys) The Pollination Home Page http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 12:25:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Human diseases of beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One of the risks (and costs) of beekeeping is the health hazards we potentially can encounter while working our bees. I spent the money last year to get myself vaccinated against Lyme's disease, which has been a problem in the area I keep bees in eastern Massachusetts. The vaccine, however doesn't provide total immunity. I came across an article today on enn about another tick-borne disease that I hadn't heard of before. As the article points out, ehrlichiosis has been diagnosed in many parts of the U.S, including Minnesota and New Jersey. Some highlights: Tick disease bugs Connecticut residents By Lucy Chubb "Ehrlichiosis, a disease that causes flu-like symptoms, is the second-most common tick-borne ailment afflicting residents of southeastern Connecticut, according to a recent report. "Scientists from Yale University, the Connecticut Agricultural Experiment Station and the Connecticut Department of Public Health conducted the study in a 12-town area around Lyme, Connecticut, from April to November in 1997, 1998 and 1999. Their results show a rate of 24 to 51 cases of ehrlichiosis per 1,000 people. "'The rate of ehrlichiosis, even at 24 to 51 cases per 100,000, is still much higher than previous estimates,' said lead author Jacob IJdo, a rheumatologist in the department of internal medicine at Yale. 'At this point it is hard to predict if ehrlichiosis will become as frequent as Lyme disease.'" The article talks about Lyme disease and the frequency of its occurence, its carriers, etc. "The symptoms of ehrlichiosis and Lyme disease are very similar, including the rapid onset of high fever and body aches. Unlike Lyme disease, ehrlichiosis does not produce a radiating skin rash around the area of the tick's bite. "Ehrlichiosis is relatively mild compared to Lyme disease, but it can be dangerous to older people, children and people with weak immune systems. "Though ehrlichiosis has been identified in animals for about 100 years, the first human strain was discovered in 1986 followed by another in 1994. Cases of ehrlichiosis have been found in many areas of the United States besides Connecticut, including Minnesota and New Jersey. "Because ehrlichiosis is relatively new, it is not clear if the disease induces any of the debilitating physical and neurological after-effects that occur when Lyme disease is not treated quickly." The article also adds that there is currently no vaccine for ehrlichiosis. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:33:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: The Christensens Subject: Re: (florida inspections) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all; I have a question for Allen Dick. I ask it here because I think the = answer may have some bearing on the discussion. My intent is not to be = inflamatory or to be offensive.=20 I remember sitting in a bee meeting several years ago where Allen = kind of got on his soap box and talked at length about the movement of = bees and the correlating spread of diseases and problems. As I recall, = he kind of shook his head and said we need to develop means to get away = from this type of beekeeping. It has been too long ago now to recall = specifics of what was said but I recall the intent was to discourage the = wholesale movement of bees. This appears to be the opposite of what is = being said now. My question is: What has changed your view on this, Allen? or...was = I totally off base with my impression of your comments of yore? :) Sincerely Leon Christensen. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 08:28:56 +1200 Reply-To: peter@airborne.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Bray Subject: Re: FW: Varroa Test In-Reply-To: <200002091458.JAA14363@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Now that Varroa has been confirmed in New Zealand, rapid safe testing procedures are essential. Can anyone vouch for the effectiveness of the test below? Is there any data on anyone having compared this with other methods? Regards, Peter Bray > Forwarded From: beekeeping@onelist.com > Author: docbull > Subject: NEW VARROA MITE FIELD TEST > > An easier, safer "for the bees" method for determining level of Mite > infestation in your bees. Like so many other procedures and methods, you > wonder why you didn't think of it yourself. > > Place a tablespoonful of confectionary sugar in a pint jar along with > approximately 200 honeybees, close and shake vigorously, leave for > several minutes, afterwards empty container onto a white paper. The bees > will fly away and the mites will be left behind for easy indexing. A > technique that should be used anytime you suspect an infestation exists. > This procedures appeals to me, I never liked the idea of killing > honeybees. > ------- > > Don't know how well this works, but thought it worth passing on. > > allen > _________________________________________________________ Airborne Honey Ltd., PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 www.airborne.co.nz peter@airborne.co.nz We Accept MS Word 2.0 Files, Excel 4.0, Corel Draw 8.0, *.BMP, *.JPG, *.GIF *.TIF, *.PCX ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:03:08 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: Bear Batteries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, Wow! What a post! These are all good questions. I can see why you are bewildered. Batteries are unique temporary power storage devices and are made in many configurations for various needs. Did you ever see a golfer use only one club? Many of your statements are true if you are talking about a certain type of battery, and false when describing a different kind. Not all statements about batteries in general are true for all types of batteries. The common term "Battery," as it is used today is quite different from what it actually means. A group of cells arranged in a battery, forms a power source for a specific purpose. Now a days the term can mean what powers the bunny across your computer screen to what starts your car to what powers my hearing aid. Each one that I mentioned is made differently and has different parameters for use, active life and rechargability. I am a ham radio operator, and worked for Ma Bell for 30 years so I do know a little bit about batteries. And I do mean just a little, there is more to know about them than I care to know, but I can help answer your questions. <<1. Never let a battery become fully discharged, or you'll wreck it.>> This depends on what type you have. Assuming you are talking about a rechargeable battery, then that statement is : True for gel-cells, wet cells. False for Ni-cads. <<2. Always discharge a battery completely before recharging it, or it will remember what it was drained down to last time before recharging and will only drain down that far the next time then sit there waiting for you to recharge it even though it's not fully discharged.>> True for Ni-cad batteries, for maximum battery life charge it fully then drain it dry 5 times. It is now conditioned to perform its best. Do this once every couple of months. ( No one does this, well maybe crazy ham radio operators will do it, but certainly no one else! ) <<3. Never half charge a battery or it will remember being half charged and will remain half chargeable ever after.>> True for ni-cad, not for gel-cell or wet cell. <<4. Never fully charge a battery or you might over charge it.>> Not true for any type of battery. This kind of stuff is perpetrated by feed store electricians who call electricity "Juice," Run away from anyone using this term. Modern "Smart Chargers," will not over charge a battery, you get what you pay for. <<5. Never set a battery on soil or it will suck the life blood out of it.>> Not true. I live in New Hampshier where the winter temps get to 20 below zero. My truck still starts. This has some basis in fact, but just a little. If the battery is properly charged it will work within its design limits. That includes its ambient temperature design parameters. Too hot is worse than too cold. You must keep in mind what condition that battery was in when Goober the feed store electrician placed it on a cold concrete floor, or soil. Why did he place it there anyway, Was it dead? Was it at the end of its useful life? Was it allowed to freeze? (An uncharged battery has water in it, not sulfuric acid.) <<6. Never set one on concrete, it's worse than soil.>> See # 5. <<7. Always use distilled water when topping up the fluid in your battery.>> True, this will extend the life of wet cell batteries. Nicad, gel-cell,and others can not have anything added, they are sealed. <<8. Rain water is not distilled water.>> True. Impurities in the water will hurt the chemical exchange of electrons. <<9. Rain water is distilled water.>> Only when it falls in da still, ( itn at rat paw? ) {spoken in dialect} <<10. If you need to check a battery's fluid level at night do not use a lighter for illumination.>> True. Wet cells produce hydrogen gas, especially when being charged. This is the same stuff the Hindenberg was filled with. <<11. If you do use a lighter for illumination, when the battery explodes don't use the handy can of coke in your other hand, to wash the acid out of your eyes. (like batteries, eyes like distilled water)>> At all cost, save the eyes. Use the cleanest water you have. I am no doctor. But if it were I who had just gotten sulfuric acid in my eyes and you were standing next to me, I am here to tell ya buddy, you have my permission to use coke, pond water, jell o, yogurt, coffee, tea, or any other reasonable substitute to dilute the acid. I will thank you and worry about how I look later, rather than if I can look at all. Five years is a very generous useful life for any battery. If your batteries last this long you have done very well indeed. I appologise for being long here, as I said, we have just scratched the surface. There is a lot more, but I can cover the do's and Don't s in another post. There is information available on batteries from the ARRL, American Radio Relay League. They have an excellent web site. You can order books from them and look up other sources on the site. www.arrl.org Ernie Gregoire "Beekeeper," definition= partially brave, partially excentric Grist Mill Apiary Canaan, New Hampshire, USA ------------------------------------- 04/11/99 16:03:08 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 17:08:23 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joe Rollins Subject: Re: Human diseases of beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I work in the forest industry in the south, therefore much tick exposure. There are more ticks here year round than most places have in the warm months. I am far healthier now that I keep bees than any other time in my life. If you are worried about lymes disease, just examine your self in the mirror when you come in from the apiary. But most importantly remember; "worry is like a rocking chair--- it just goes back and forth". Joe Rollins SW Mississippi W091 N31 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 19:35:47 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: News on AHB's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit According to NBC News tonight, there's "little to stop" the "killer bees" from moving northward. They quoted Paul Jackson of the Texas inspection service saying they can survive in some cold weather. On the bright side, they did show a beekeeper with European bees crawling over his bare hands, in contrast to the intense aggressive behavior as shown on clips of beekeepers handling "killer bees." According to NBC News, the body count on people killed by the "killer bees" is 7 since introduction in Brazil from Africa in 1957. A fairly insignificant number to use to justify the phrase "killer bees" IMO. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 19:33:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Subject: Re: Arthritis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Arthritis I am wondering how many beekeepers on this list experience arthritis. My mother had severe arthritis and it is looking like I may be traveling the same path. I have heard in the past that bee sting therapy is an arthritis preventative. I am planning on taking up beekeeping again but would still like to know the experience of you long time beekeepers out there. If you would, just drop a line to me personally at mws@frontiernet.net and indicate YES or NO as to whether or not you are afflicted to some degree or other with arthritis and how long you have been keeping bees. If I can get a significant sampling I shall report back to the discussion group with my findings. Thanks for your help in this. Just plain curious, Mike Stoops In southern Alabama, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:23:20 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: (florida inspections) In-Reply-To: <200004112110.RAA15977@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I remember sitting in a bee meeting several years ago where Allen > kind of got on his soap box and talked at length about the movement of > bees and the correlating spread of diseases and problems. As I recall, > he kind of shook his head and said we need to develop means to get away > from this type of beekeeping. It has been too long ago now to recall > specifics of what was said but I recall the intent was to discourage the > wholesale movement of bees. This appears to be the opposite of what is > being said now. That is true. I remember that meeting well, because it was a turning point in my life in many ways. At that meeting I was on the losing side and had to yield to the majority and trust the wisdom of my fellow beekeepers in a democratic vote. It was a close decision, and many did not accept the will of the people and went away bitter, and some prominent beekeepers were isolated and broken by the experience. Some people stand for this, and some for that, and some others try to stand for what is reasonable in the situation in which they find themselves. They realise that there is no sense fighting on after a battle is lost. In that particular context, we had to either fight the mites or manage a retreat. I was for fighting one more battle at that point, because we had all decided to make a stand and invested a lot in it -- and immediate defeat did not seem at all inevitable -- with what we thought we knew. In retrospect what we knew was wrong. I think I know a lot of things, but when I am outvoted, I can either say "They are all wrong." or "They are smart, honest, successful people, so maybe this will come out okay. I'd better try to see things their way and at least work with them." Somewhat uncharacteristically for me at that time, I made a deliberate decision to cheerfully respect the majority, and I've never made a better choice. It turned out my fellow beekeepers' majority decision was right, when all the facts were eventually known. We had already lost the battle. Mites were more widespread than we thought and there was no real will to resist anyhow. When Tracheal mites first appeared in the USA, no one knew how serious a problem they would be, and before long the decision was made to close the Canada/US border. This decision was some time in the making, and involved as much emotion as reason. I think I have referred here before to another more private meeting and how no seemed to have thought of the impact on many of our friends in the industry -- in Canada, and in the southern US -- if the border were shut. And, for that matter no one foresaw how rich it would make other beekeepers in New Zealand and Australia -- or Hawaii. As it proved later, the embargo was a case of closing the barn door after the horse is gone, because the mites were already in Alberta and other places by the time closure took place, but no one knew that, because the levels were below detection. Absolute detection methods were -- and are -- not simple and/or foolproof. Some of us believed in these methods more than they proved to deserve and made decisions based on the belief that we could detect the tracheal mites and manage their progress overland. Time proved us wrong. There were other factors besides the natural spread of the mites to consider, even with the border closed. Anyhow, during the time we saw the border decision coming we all had to decide how to bet our livelihoods. Some of us bet on the closure happening and got to work perfecting wintering. This was a big investment in learning and material, but those who foresaw the closure knew it was necessary to be prepared. Our government provided some assistance. Others simply did not believe border closure would ever happen and were caught flat-footed. Having killed their bees (and having no knowledge of wintering even if they had kept them) they had no bees to operate the next year. Many simply went broke. Therefore there was terrific political pressure by those who had been left without bees to re-open the border forthwith and for years after. On the other side, those who had foreseen the closure and had spent a lot of money and resources to learn to operate without incoming American packages saw that their investment could be quickly lost if tracheal mites were imported and distributed quickly throughout Canada with packages and queens. At the time particularly, and perhaps even at present, tracheal mites can spell mass death to overwintering bees. Everyone knew and believed that, at that time. A schism developed and there were two factions that did not communicate well. There was a mistrust of one region for another. Some people made petty political points on each side at the cost of our unity and in some case, friendships. Paul Van Westendorp was in the middle, along with the ABA. We must remember too, at that time no one had bred tracheal mite resistant bees, no one even had proven treatments for tracheal mites, so we were both ignorant and vulnerable. In fact, disregarding the wintering question, no one even knew for sure what the effects of tracheal mites would be on bees in Canadian conditions in spring and summer, except that it would not be beneficial. Having already done damage to the package operators by closing the border, were the associations and regulators to now damage the wintering people by opening it again -- too late for many of the package guys? Or were they to monitor for, and control outbreaks and play out the hand they had chosen? Given that we had chosen, deliberately or not, the path of detection and control, many of us felt committed to it -- until several influential beekeepers suddenly were found to have the tracheal mite. At that point the special meeting that is mentioned was called. Right during spring work, as I recall. Everyone got to speak, and the topic went around and around. Lots of arguments were made, but it was an amazingly civil meeting. Basically, the big guys who had TM said, "We like the bees we have, and even if they have TM, we don't want to kill them. Even the Alberta government gives us full compensation (which was generously offered) we don't want to kill them". It was pretty much a standoff, and that is when the soapbox talk to which Leon refers took place. I indicated that I thought we could make the plan work, and that since 99% of us at that time only moved within small areas, the spread could be managed, and perhaps reversed. I was personally committed to stay-put beekeeping and, perhaps if everyone else were to agree, it might have worked. I don't know, but a few wanted to keep rolling and being free traders, and we couldn't/wouldn't stop them. They liked to go hundreds or thousands of miles. I don't think it made them more money than staying home, but it was just their way. A few years later, the same guys insisted on bringing in varroa and spreading it around. BUT beekeeepers are beekeepers. We are stubborn lot who often insist on doing things our own wrong way, and we respect that in each other. So, I now move bees up to 250 miles to accommodate the needs of the seed growers, and I have all the mites. I still have my friends and I still disagree with them about what they chose for us. But we are friends. allen > My question is: What has changed your view on this, Allen? or...was > I totally off base with my impression of your comments of yore? :) ? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 21:51:33 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Leen and Maria van den Berg Subject: Re: Queen Marking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > EVERYBODY should have MARKED queens, so they really KNOW (rather than > guessing) > what is going on in their colonies. We have part of our queens marked the last two years. But what we noticed in the first year was, that at the end of the summer a remarkable higher % of the colonies of the marked queens we had to kill, because of a bad performing queen. Last year we noticed early supersedure of the marked queens (within 4 weeks). Of course we don't know about the unmarked ones. Does the extra handling of marking the queen influence somewhere ? We requeen every other year and swarming has not been any problem here in Canada compared to what we were used to with our "Dutch black bees" when we lived in the Netherlands. We have Carneolan types from Kona and the Huxter mixtures from southern B.C .Last year we had no more queens and some big colonies left, so we made 11 walk away splits. They were as gentle as can be and all wintered well as we found out today. > A MARKED queen is SO MUCH EASIER TO SEE than an unmarked queen, particularly But it makes you lazy too, if she is superseeded you have to go through your hive for a second time.... > I know of no reason NOT to mark a queen, I mention some above. Kindly regards, Maria van den Berg, partner in +800 hives, Peace River Area,almost 60ºNB,Canada ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:57:30 PST Reply-To: a4a46437@telus.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: a4a46437@TELUS.NET Subject: manifest destiny I've been trying to imagine the Shangri-La that some of you have alluded to in which there are no government bureaucrats and we can move hives from southern Mexico to northern Canada. I expect somebody would move 4000 hives in and grab my honey crop, but then I'd be able to truck down and make a fortune on almond pollination so it would all be fair. I got a little depressed picturing myself some Sunday afternoon staring at a wall in the Hotel California, drinking 4% beer. Didn't seem right risking death by traffic accident or a heart attack from stress when I could be home lying in my hammock by the creek playing with my kids, ignoring my wife and drinking 5% beer. But then I brightened up thinking at least there'd be some point to my life. I'd be a living testament to the value of free will and the banishment of bureaucrats. 10-4, keep on trucking Ted Hancock, Dog Creek, Canada ================================================================= Internet service provided by telus.net http://www.telus.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 21:39:13 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: News on AHB's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, > On the bright side, they did show a beekeeper with European bees crawling > over his bare hands, in contrast to the intense aggressive behavior as shown > on clips of beekeepers handling "killer bees." I'll be encouraged when they show a beekeeper with AHB crawling over his bare hands. Why is the selection of AHB for mild temperament being ignored? At least it is not being discussed. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:55:07 +1200 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: New from NZ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Here is some of the written press from New Zealand. At the end is a URL for a streaming video of our TV news item re: the varroa outbreak: Bee mite infestation - MAF statement The honey bee mite Varroa jacobsoni was confirmed in three beehives on a property in South Auckland today (Tuesday April 11). Hives on three other properties have been inspected, and are showing signs of infestation. A full-scale survey to determine the extent of the spread of the mite will begin tomorrow (Wednesday). At this stage it is unknown how the mite arrived in New Zealand. The evidence suggests it may have been present and undetected for up to five years. Spread is commonly by live bees, and there have been no live bee imports permitted into New Zealand for at least 40 years to protect our bee health status. The mite spreads by natural means very slowly, at a rate of 5km a year. When first affected, hives have low numbers of mites that are not easily seen. Numbers build up over several years until the hive dies. Controlled Area A controlled area will be declared under the Biosecurity Act, and will include Rodney District, North Shore City, Waitakere City, Auckland City (excluding Great Barrier Island), Manukau City, Papakura District, Franklin District, Waikato District, Hamilton City and Hauraki District. The controlled area will mean that the movement of any bees (live and dead), beehives, supers of honey intended to be extracted, used beekeeping equipment and appliances will be prohibited within the area, or from the area to other areas. This will remain in force until the survey has determined the mite's distribution. There will be further controls on movements of these items from the North to South Islands. Surveillance >From Wednesday, teams of apiarists led by MAF authorised persons will be visiting and inspecting beehives within the controlled area. MAF and the National Beekeeping Association (NBA) are working together to determine how far the mite has spread and options for control. MAF and the NBA are requesting the cooperation of all beekeepers throughout New Zealand to inspect their hives for signs of the Varroa mite. What to look for Infested hives may show the following signs: Unexpectedly low bee numbers Sacbrood-like symptoms in brood frames Small bronze mites on the bodies of bees, and on uncapped drone pupae Weak crawling bees, possible with deformed wings Sudden hive crashes. Background Varroa jacobsoni is a small, bronze-coloured oval mite 1-2 mm long, which is found on the outside of adult honey bees. It can be seen with the naked eye if bees are examined carefully. It is also visible on honey bee pupae, and appears as a dark reddish-brown dot. It is most commonly found on drone pupae. The mite does not affect humans, and has no known host other than the honey bee. The mite originated in eastern Asia and spread into Europe via Russia. Since the 1980s it has been carried into most other beekeeping regions of the world, killing thousands of colonies. Until now New Zealand and Australia have been considered the only major beekeeping countries free of the mite. The mite lives by feeding on bee pupae. Infected pupae fail to survive, or may be born with deformed wings. Eventually, the mite population increases to a point where all the bees in the beehive die. This can take up to three years from the original infestation. The mite spreads naturally from hive to hive by bee contact. However, the rapid spread of the mite worldwide is due to human activities. Modern beekeepers shift their hives long distances to pollinate crops, or gather honey. This enabled the Varroa mite to spread over the whole North American continent within five years of being introduced. Some European countries, which have strictly controlled the movement of bees, have managed to greatly slow the spread of Varroa. Another means of spread is the international trade in live bees. Queen bees are shipped worldwide, and are believed to be responsible for the spread of the mite from Europe to both North and South America. New Zealand has prohibited the import of live bees for the last 40 years to protect our bee health status. This has led to New Zealand becoming a major exporter of live bees and queens to the Northern Hemisphere. This annual $1.8 million trade is threatened by the discovery of the Varroa mite. Published on April 12, 2000 ONE NEWS sourced from TVNZ, RNZ, Reuters and If you have enough bandwidth, you can see the news item from NZ television: http://nzoom.com/onenews/national/2000/04/11/00019271.htm (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz 'Order' files from an autoresponder... Bibliography: Paraffin Wax for Preservation, AFB? Email to: paraffin@beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:15:47 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carol Malcolm Subject: Beekeeper in (Mathis) San Patricio County, TX Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello, If anyone fits the subject line, please contact me. I have a landowner with bees in an abandoned homestead who would like them removed rather than killed. Carol Carol K. Malcolm dewsnap@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:39:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: AL Subject: Re: FW: Varroa Test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All the baggage I'm including in this response will probably disqualify it as violating the rules of the list, but here goes. This very subject came up tonight at our local beekeeper's meeting. Our (IL) state bee inspector described the method detailed in Allen's post and expressed relief that a safer technique had been found. Apparently the Varroa mite uses a sticky substance on it's feet that that allow it to cling to the bees. The powdered sugar interferes with this sticky grip and the mite falls off during the shaking. The exact method described tonight varied slightly from Allen's, but only in the design of the container which used 1/8" hardware cloth in the lid to allow the sugar/mite mixture to be dumped out before releasing the bees. AL Peter Bray wrote: > > Now that Varroa has been confirmed in New Zealand, rapid safe > testing procedures are essential. > > Can anyone vouch for the effectiveness of the test below? > > Place a tablespoonful of confectionary sugar in a pint jar along with > > approximately 200 honeybees, close and shake vigorously, leave for > > several minutes, afterwards empty container onto a white paper. The bees > > will fly away and the mites will be left behind for easy indexing. A > > technique that should be used anytime you suspect an infestation exists. > > This procedures appeals to me, I never liked the idea of killing > > honeybees. > > > > allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:14:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Packages on Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've never recommended it -- even to my worst enemy -- if I had one -- but you can see the (pathetic) pictures in my diary. There are also pictures of the same 2lb packages installed on drawn comb. You decide. They have all the advantages except warm weather. They have protein patties, fondant, and OTC. Maybe later -- after we conclude this experiment, I will be saying differently, but for now, I continue to say that installing packages on foundation is a good way to kill bees. allen ------ http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ "If I make a living off it, that's great--but I come from a culture where you're valued not so much by what you acquire but by what you give away," -- Larry Wall (the inventor of Perl) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 07:48:05 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: New from NZ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/12/00 5:56:19 AM, nickw@BEEKEEPING.CO.NZ writes: << The mite does not affect humans, and has no known host other than the honey bee. >> Inaccurate. The mite is also hosted on Apis cerana, from which at some point it jumped species to the honey bee, Apis mellifera. I suppose "honey bee," broadly defined and in common usage, could include both species, but that's a little too broad for me. Questions: Does New Zealand have a migratory beekeeping industry? How does New Zealand's $1.8 million queen export business stand to be affected by this discovery? Doesn't Australia accept imported queens from New Zealand, and is anybody taking another look now for possible infestation of varroa in Australia? Does Hawaii accepted imported queens from New Zealand? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 08:32:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: Human diseases of beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am in the woods and fields daily and in Ky, USA, there are many ticks and at least 3 varieties of them. I find ticks on me almost daily from March to November and sustain 8 or more bite each week. The tiny "Deer Tick" is the worst and can cover you with 100 at a time. Difficult to remove because they are hard to see. Lyme Disease is here but not very common. I am more concerned about Rocky Mountian Spotted Fever. It is more prevelant. I spray my clothes and check often for ticks but they still get me. All I can do is shower often and keep a sharp eye out for any symptoms. I am sure that very many people share this problem on this list. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 08:36:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Educating the public: (Was: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/00 9:22:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, GImasterBK@AOL.COM (George Imirie) writes: > but I think that the > lack of beekeepers getting on their soapboxes and explaining the value of > apis mellifera to the American public is almost sinful; an A tip o' the hat to you, George for all the good you've done in keeping beekeeping before the school children. We owe you a lot of gratitude. And the sentiment quoted is RIGHT ON! I encourage y'all to get into the schools as much as possible. Don't worry about not being a polished speaker, but take along lots of visual aids. Do you have any video of your beekeeping operations? Most teachers have the capability to show these. Do you have an observation hive? Even better. For quite awhile (until the termites got into it) I had a screen room I could put on my trailer, and I could take these to schools and exhibitions. One of these days I hope to do it again, because showing a live hive is the best interest-catcher you can provide. But even if you can't do this, take along samples of well pollinated and poorly pollinated produce. Many folks have little understanding why some cukes are knotty and some watermelons aren't sweet. Make sure you understand, then explain it to them. The elementary kids are the most fun, but don't forget the ag classes, FFA clubs, even biology classes. There are opportunities not only in schools, but in many adult affinity groups. You have a natural IN with gardening clubs (even on the internet--there are two beekeepers who are regulars in garden forums) and farmers groups. But I wouldn't miss the chance to do a program at the local Lions Club, either. One of our simplest aids is a presentation board with a lot of photos (which we mostly capture from our videos and print out). Anyone can make these. Some very nice pics and other materials are also available from the bee supply places, if you'd rather not make your own. Another good idea is to be acquainted and keep in touch with your representatives. I'd venture that a lot of folks don't know who their representatives are, much less keep in touch. I need to do more of this. This post probably doesn't qualify as education for beekeepers, as there is nothing new here; rather it is an exhortation, encouragement to do what we really know we should be doing more of... Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 08:48:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: manifest destiny Comments: To: a4a46437@telus.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/11/00 9:23:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, a4a46437@TELUS.NET (Ted Hancock) writes: > I've been trying to imagine the Shangri-La that some of you have alluded to > in which there are no government bureaucrats and we can move hives from > southern > Mexico to northern Canada. I expect somebody would move 4000 hives in and > grab my honey crop, but then I'd be able to truck down and make a fortune on > almond pollination so it would all be fair. I got a little depressed > picturing > myself some Sunday afternoon staring at a wall in the Hotel California, > drinking > 4% beer. Didn't seem right risking death by traffic accident or a heart > attack > from stress when I could be home lying in my hammock by the creek playing > with > my kids, ignoring my wife and drinking 5% beer. But then I brightened up > thinking > at least there'd be some point to my life. I'd be a living testament to the > value of free will and the banishment of bureaucrats. > > 10-4, keep on trucking I love it, Ted! You are a gifted writer. But the number of private responses I've gotten is an expression of how frustrated many beekeepers are. Most of the trucking is for pollination, not honey, though it's nice to make some honey too. And pollination operates on an intense schedule. When the blossoms open, the only death in the family that counts as an excuse to not be there, is your own. Maybe we pollination beekeepers are a bunch of whackos, but few would put up with being far from home in a cheap motel (or sleeping in the truck), unless they were convinced that what they do has real value. I grew up in agriculture; my parents had a sense of the worth of what they did; feeding folks is an important job. And I have seen starving people. So, I guess I get on my soapbox easily.... Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:32:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Organic honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What follows are the organic honey standards from an outfit called Quality Assurance International. Their Web page describes them thus: "Quality Assurance International is a private, professional service corporation developed specifically for the purpose of verifying the authenticity of food, fiber and other products which are organically grown under a management policy of sustainable agriculture; and which are handled under goals preserving the integrity created in the organic commodity." www.qai-inc.com 6.7. HONEY STANDARDS 6.7.1. Bee-Stock Sources While pedigree of the bees is not crucial to organic honey production, their handling in a manner that prevents contamination of future organic honey crops with residual honey or bee feed from non-compliant sources is crucial. 6.7.1.1. Acceptable sources of bees include: · Colonies in existing organic hives; · Colonies confined to brood chambers only covered by a queen excluder; · Divided colonies from conventional hives on brood combs only; · Package bee colonies; · Nucleus colony (“nucs”); · Captured wild or migratory swarms on brood comb only. The use of colonies that have combs containing existing honey produced from nectar collected from non-complying foraging areas is prohibited. 6.7.2. Principal Feed Source Areas Organic honey must be produced by naturally foraging colonies that are located at least 2 miles distant, in straight-line flight, from any pollution source which could cause the honey to become contaminated by, or as a result of, returning foraging bees (e.g. synthetic-chemical sprayed agriculture, industrial centers, urban centers, etc.). A detailed map of all forage areas is required from all applicants. 6.7.3. Feed Supplements Each bee-keeper is required to have a supplemental feeding plan, if starvation is imminent. This would include planning for sources of honey, sugar, syrup, fruit concentrate or other food source for non-flow periods. If the hives are moved to non-compliant nectar and pollen sources, any organic honey must be removed before the hives are moved. In addition, the first honey extracted after the re-entry period back to the compliant apiary location must be treated as conventional honey. The use of non-compliant feed supplements during honey flow is prohibited. 6.7.4. Health-Care Practices Bottom boards may be scraped routinely to remove accumulations of wax and other debris that serve as food and shelter for wax moths. Colonies infected with American Foulbrood must be destroyed. Beekeepers are allowed to use the antibiotic oxytetracycline (terramycin) as a preventive measure against the spread of American Foulbrood into colonies. Antibiotic applications may be made only after the end of honey production, and must be terminated 30 days prior to the start of new organic honey production. Menthol is allowed for control of Tracheal Mites (Acarapis Woodi). Folic acid, formic acid, and lactic acid are allowed for the control of Varroa Mites with the following restrictions: · Folic acid may be used after the end of the season’s honey production. Its use must be discontinued 30 days before the addition of honey supers. The need for folic acid must be documented and approval obtained from QAI prior to its use; · Formic acid has not been approved by the EPA for use against mites in the U.S. The need for formic acid must be documented and approval obtained from QAI prior to its use; · Lactic acid may be used after the end of the season’s honey production. Its use must be discontinued 30 days before the addition of honey supers. The need for lactic acid must be documented and approval obtained from QAI prior to its use. 6.7.4.1. The following practices are prohibited: · Use of sugar syrup, or oil (shortening) based extender patties for administering antibiotics for American Foulbrood control; · Use of synthetically compounded materials for health care. 6.7.5. Hives & Apiary Yard Locations · Apiary “yards” should be located near abundant, forageable pollen and nectar crops; yards should be located in areas of low ant activity; · Hives (if paintable) should be painted with non-toxic paint and in a suitable color for the climatic conditions; · Comb foundations are to be made of pure beeswax, and frames are to be made from wood. Plastic frames, foundations or combs are prohibited; · Additional supers (boxes of production combs above the brood chambers) are encouraged for successful colonies; · Each individual hive must have a numbered I.D. code that relates to the bottom board, brood chamber boxes, queen excluder (if used), honey supers, and cover(s); · Use of wet comb (extracted, but wet with honey) from conventional hives is prohibited. 6.7.6. Harvesting 6.7.6.1. Accepted methods for removing bees from the honey supers during harvesting include: · Bee escapes with a natural smoke agitant; · Bee brush and transfer boxes; · Forced-air bee blower. The use of “fume boards” with non-compliant or unregistered repellents of any kind during harvesting is prohibited. Examples of these prohibited products include butyric anhydride (Bee Go and Honey Robber) or benzaldehyde. 6.7.7. Extraction Facility The extraction facility must adhere to all regulations for organic processing facilities. 6.7.7.1. Acceptable moth controls in storage include: · Burning sulfur; · Refrigeration or freezing. Any honey heated to over 110 degrees F must not be labeled “raw” honey because of heat denaturing of enzymes. The labeling of organic honey grade or color shall comply with USDA honey industry standards. Organic honey labeled by floral source must be produced solely from that single floral source and not blended with any other honey. 6.7.8. Record-Keeping Yard records of all inputs must be maintained, including dates and amounts of materials applied. A detailed production log with an apiary yard location system must be maintained in an auditable format. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 08:21:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: (florida inspections) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The comments on inspection at the NH and Maine borders is a straw man. It does not happen. Inspections are in the field and are for the benefit of the grower who is paying for strong hives not mite infested or suffering from AFB and other problems. There were some states that reacted with quarantines against tracheal and varroa, but if you looked a little deeper, it had nothing to do with the mite but everything to do with economics as a good way to help local pollinators against migratory beekeepers. Canada, and especially New Brunswick is an excellent example of just that. And I think one of the Carolinas did the same thing. So it was not the local bee inspector who was the bad guy but local, commercial beekeepers who were protecting their businesses. The inspection program set up by several states is to allow free movement of bees between states without giving in to the fear of AHB, AFB, Varroa, and Tracheal mites. Were it not for the present system, there would be inspections at the borders as each state did its own thing to *protect* its local beekeepers. And it was the Bee Inspectors who spearheaded the program to assist the free movement of bees but with controls. It is mostly an honor program since only a small fraction of all the hives can be inspected. But, so far, the migratory beekeepers have lived up to complying with the program, since it is to their benefit as much as it is to the grower. The comments directed against the Bee inspectors are wrong and really should be directed against projectionist beekeepers who used tracheal mites, and then Varroa, as an excuse to close the borders and keep out the competition. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 23:04:27 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Rich Australian beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote >And, > for that matter no one foresaw how rich it would make other beekeepers in New > Zealand and Australia -- or Hawaii. I don't know of any beekeepers in Australia that have become financially rich through sending queen bees to Canada. The only richs are the friendships generated by our trade with the people we supply in Canada. Allen's post reminds me of a joke I was told at Apimondia in Vancouver in September last year. What is the difference between an Albertan and a 747 both going to Hawaii... Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 08:24:06 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: Packages on Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > > I've never recommended it -- even to my worst enemy -- if I had one -- but you > can see the (pathetic) pictures in my diary. There are also pictures of the > same 2lb packages installed on drawn comb. You decide. > > > Maybe later -- after we conclude this experiment, I will be saying differently, > but for now, I continue to say that installing packages on foundation is a good > way to kill bees. > Hi Allen, I tried to find a quote from text for the exact temperature neccessary for wax production. Couldn't locate but as i remember from memory and sure if i am wrong will be corrected. I believe the temp. is 70 degreesF.. In my humble opinion when the daytime temp. is above 70F. and the nightime at least 55 F. the bees on foundation do ok but never as fast as drawn comb. I believe the temp is the main slow down factor in those packages. I have seen(don't care what researchers say!)queens lay eggs in a cells of foundation before the cell is drawn out! Strickly a guess: Maybe thats why they say swarms are motivated when hived on foundation! Motivated to make a cell wall around those eggs/larva. Because of your outstanding web site and many contributions to beekeeping i am going to send you my formula for outstanding success with packages by direct email. The rest of the beekeepers can send money and a stamped self addressed envelope or wait for the book" Best kept secrets of beekeeping reveled". Happy beekeeping! Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:44:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Rich Australian beekeepers In-Reply-To: <200004121449.KAA07259@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >And, for that matter no one foresaw how rich it would make other > > beekeepers in New Zealand and Australia -- or Hawaii. > > I don't know of any beekeepers in Australia that have become financially > rich through sending queen bees to Canada. The only richs are the > friendships generated by our trade with the people we supply in Canada. Hehehe. I wondered who would bite on that. It's true, we have made many friends that we never thought we would meet, and beekeepers fly to and fro regularly now. 'Rich' is a relative word. It always applies to the other guy, not me. Anyhow, I don't see a lot of hardship when I look at the queen and bee shippers in the Southern hemisphere or Hawaii and no one is turning down business that I know about. allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 12:06:01 EDT Reply-To: mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Medhat Nasr Organization: Environ. Biology & Horticulture Subject: REPORT ON CROPS AND HONEY BEE POLLINATION Comments: cc: groberts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi All, Here is a report about our recent pollination symposium REPORT ON CROPS AND HONEY BEE POLLINATION SYMPOSIUM, GUELPH, ONTARIO - March 13th, 2000 Janet Tam, Geoff Wilson, Medhat Nasr Ontario Beekeepers' Association, c/o Dept. Environmental Biology, University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, N1G 2W1. The second annual pollination symposium was held on Monday, March 13th, 2000. This symposium was sponsored by the OBA's Ontario Honey Bee Pollination Association. Growers and beekeepers were brought together to discuss various subjects related to crops and honey bee pollination. Promotion and marketing of honey bees for pollination was also addressed. Here is a summary of the presentations: Visit to Bick's Delhi Tank Farm for Pickling Cucumbers (Simcoe area) - George Pape, Agricultural Manager Early birds enjoyed an interesting slide show and tour of the tank farm. The history of the farm was given through photographs and narration. Much work was put into the building of the farm. Considerations were given to the environment during construction, as shown by all the precautions: layers of clay, plastic liners, fibreglass tanks, overflow tanks and a lagoon all had their place to keep any possible brine leakage contained. Surrounding wells are tested regularly to ensure that salt is not contaminating the ground water. The process of pickling, from sorting cucumbers to delivery to the Scarborough plant, was given in detail. Cucumbers are first sorted into different grades (gherkins, baby dills, regular dills, spears and slicers for the food industry and relish). Specialized equipment is used for filling the tanks, as not to damage the cucumbers. The cucumbers are pickled in a salt water solution, known as brine. Air is bubbled through the tanks during the pickling process, to remove the carbon dioxide, and the salt levels monitored. The minimum pickling time is 3 weeks, though they can be stored for 1-2 years in brine. When ready for shipping, the pickles are pumped out and the brine recycled. Quality testing then determines the use for each tank of pickles, and they are shipped to Scarborough for flavouring, finishing and packing. The tank farm currently has 360 tanks, but by the end of this summer they expect to expand to 600 tanks. Most of the pickles sold by Bick's are grown in Canada, but the supply is not enough, so they import some (gherkins only) from India. The importance of proper pollination was emphasized for uniformly sized cucumbers, premium prices and to facilitate the use of machines for harvesting. Bick's plans to continue to educate and encourage growers about thebenefits of pollination. Pollination Services and Goals - John Van Alten, OHBPA Chair The Ontario Honey Bee Pollination Association (OHBPA) would like more cooperation between beekeepers and growers. They must work together to solve problems, such as determining proper recommendations for colony densities in different crops, colony strength requirements and standard fees for pollination. Communication is important for avoiding accidents during colony movement and pesticide spraying. The OHBPA is also involved in the promotion and marketing of pollination and pollination services. Advertisements and brochures are presently being used, but new ideas for educating growers and encouraging pollination services are welcome. Status of the Beekeeping Industry in Ontario - Doug McRory, Provincial Apiarist, OMAFRA, Guelph, Ontario The beekeeping industry has changed in the past 10 years. Varroa mites and tracheal mites have spread into and throughout Ontario, and as a result, the number of beekeepers, especially hobbyists, has gone down. The numbers have dropped from 115,000 colonies and 5,000 beekeepers 10 years ago, to 77,000 colonies and 4,000 beekeepers 2 years ago. Now there are only about 3,500 beekeepers, but the number of colonies has risen to 87,000. Presently, 90-95% of colonies have varroa mites, and 25% have both varroa and tracheal mites. For the past six years, Dr. Medhat Nasr has been working for the OBA to develop short and long term solutions to the mite problem. Formic acid has been developed for use as a 'soft chemical' application, and has been made part of an integrated pest management (IPM) program. The recommended treatment program is formic acid in the spring and Apistan in the fall. Beekeepers should not rely only on chemicals. Dr. Nasr has also been working on a breeding program to create and maintain lines of tracheal mite resistant honey bees. 22 queen breeders and producers have been participating in this ongoing project. Recently, traits for varroa mite tolerance (hygienic, grooming) have been incorporated. Before the mites, feral bee colonies accounted for about 20% of pollination. Now, feral colonies cannot survive because of the mites and honey bee colonies must be rented to provide sufficient pollination. Although there are 25,000 acres of apple orchards, only 12,000 colonies were rented out for pollination. This comes to less than half a colony per acre, which is well below the recommendations of 1-3 colonies per acre, depending on the density of apple trees grown. Lately the bulk honey price has been quite low, and the carry-over from large honey crops does not help. Most Ontario honey, however, is sold out of the honey house, or packaged and sold directly to stores and consumers, so our beekeepers have been mostly cushioned from the low bulk prices. Looking at the big picture, honey sales amount to 12 or 13 million dollars per year, while the value of pollination to agriculture is more than $100 million. Obviously, this industrial sector needs to be better utilized. Pollination services must be sold without undercutting competitors, but without 'gouging' the customer. The quality of the service must be controlled and guaranteed, but also with the guarantee of safety for the honey bees themselves. Pollination of High Density Apple in Washington - Dan Mayer, Professor, Washington State University, Prosser, Washington, USA Trees and bees - they have a very important relationship. One provides food for survival, the other provides the pollination necessary for reproduction. Some varieties of apples, such as Golden Delicious or MacIntosh, can self-pollinate, but other trees, such as peach, apricot, or older apple varieties, require cross-pollination, which means that they need pollen from another, compatible variety. Bees are required to transfer the pollen in either case, though it is more critical in cross-pollination. Pollination must be planned in order to be successful. Pollinizers, the trees providing the pollen (e.g. crabapple), must be strategically placed for maximum efficiency of pollen distribution. Staggering them within and between rows, 15 feet apart, has been found to be most effective. Pollinizers must be compatible to main crop, bloom at the proper time (before and during the main crop bloom), be attractive to bees and they must also be compatible with bee behaviour and pollination (e.g. the same colour blossoms as the main crop). Pollinizers must also bloom profusely, and not take up too much space in the orchard. From the beekeeper's perspective, bee colonies need to be strong, healthy and equalized before putting them into pollination. Washington regulations demand that each colony must consist of at least 6 frames which are 2/3 covered with bees (at 65øF) and one queen. One method of determining colony strength is to count 75 incoming bees/minute at the hive entrance. This is, however, time consuming and not reliable. Timing of pollination is a joint responsibility between the beekeeper and the grower. Bees should be in place 1 or 2 days before the king bloom. The king bloom is the first blossom to bloom in each bunch, and it produces the largest fruit. It only has a life of 1-2 days, so timing is important. Colonies should be in the sun, raised off the ground, and placed in groups of 4-12, about 100 yards apart. This will encourage bee activity to begin earlier, and provide good coverage of the orchard. The field force is the amount of bees out pollinating. It can be quantified by the number of bees/tree/minute. Each bee makes 6-7 trips each day, and each flower requires 40-50 bee visits to ensure cross pollination. Competition within the field force encourages bees to switch trees more often and is required for efficient pollination. The recommendations are 2 colonies/acre, and up to 4 colonies/acre for higher density apple orchards. If the weather is poor for bee activity, more colonies are required. To determine if effective pollination is taking place: 1. The number of bees on the main variety and on the pollinizer should be similar. 2. The number of bees throughout the orchard should be more or less constant. 3. Check the king bloom to see if it has been set. 4. Check for fruit/set flowers on the sides of trees facing away from the pollinizers, and compare to the side next to the pollinizers. Methods to supplement pollen in orchards with poor pollen sources: 1. Plant more pollinizers. 2. Use pollen inserts on pollinating honey bee colonies (must be serviced twice a day). 3. Strategically place bouquets of pollinizers in orchard. Sustainable Pollination Project Report - Dr. Peter Kevan (Professor)/Mark Robinson (Research Assistant)/Paul Kron (Researcher), University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario Pickling Cucumber Pollination - Dr. Peter Kevan Pollination in pickling cucumbers is important for the production of symmetrical fruit and a synchronized crop. Honey bees do not like cucumber pollen, and forage mostly for nectar. Cucumber fields are seeded with 10-15% pollinizer plants (with mainly male flowers), and the remaining plants produce mainly female flowers. Genetic tracking has determined that 70% of the fruit produced is sired by the intended pollinizers. The current recommendations are 1 colony/acre of cucumber. At 250 metres from the colony, bee visits are reduced by 50%, but full fruit set was still observed. For larger fields, the distribution of pollinating colonies must be considered. Native bees, such as sweat bees or bumble bees, were not observed in large numbers, but more studies are required to determine their significance to cucumber pollination. The timing of harvest is important. It cannot be delayed, so pollination must be timed correctly for the crop to be uniform. Pollen Dispersal in Apples: Implications for Bee and Orchard Management - Paul Kron The traditional row/block style of planting orchards does not facilitate cross-pollination.Bees tend to move along rows when foraging, not across rows, and so they tend to visit only one variety per foraging trip. Each variety has specific genetic markers. Thus the parents of an apple can be determined using genetic fingerprint analysis of the seeds to identify the pollen donor source. Using this technique, it was possible to determine the movement of pollen in the orchard. Pollen was found to move across 18 rows, though most movement (75%) was in the first 3 rows. Along a row, pollen moves only as far as 5-7 trees. Results can be improved by increasing the number of colonies per acre, decreasing the block size of individual varieties, splitting rows, and by careful selection and placement of varieties and pollinizers. Pollination of Red Clover: Preliminary Assessment of Bumble Bees and Honey Bees - Mark Robinson A preliminary study was designed to assess the pollinating efficiency of bumble bees, honey bees, native bees, and a mix of bees in red clover. Plots of 1 mý were monitored throughout the field for 15 min periods and the types of bees and number of visits were recorded. The amount of seed set was used to determine the efficiency of pollination. Results showed that mainly honey bees were observed in the field. Some bumble bees were observed foraging, and very few native bees were seen. The highest seed set was found in the area nearest the honey bee colonies. High seed set was found near the bumble bee colonies as well, but it was less consistent. From the bee observation data, it seemed that high seed production was associated with honey bee pollination. Pollination by native bees was not significant, but mixed bee pollination was significant. Pumpkin and Squash Pollination - Dr. Peter Kevan The hoary squash bee is a specialist pollinator which forages only on squash plants. Its life cycle is based on the growth and blooming cycle of squash plants. It is a solitary, ground nesting bee which digs about 18 inches into the soil, and can often be found nesting in the squash field. Shallow tilling may be a method to preserve this bee, which is the most effective pollinator of squash plants. A survey of squash bees was conducted in Ontario, and its range was found to be patchy throughout southern Ontario, and it was not present in northern Ontario. More work is required to learn about the behaviour and biology of the squash bee to determine the type of habitat it prefers and why it is absent in certain areas. Colony Strength and Quality Used for Crop Pollination in Ontario - Dr. Medhat Nasr (Tech-Transfer Specialist)/Janet Tam (Research Apiculturist), OBA, Guelph, Ontario A survey of honey bee colonies in pollination was completed during spring apple pollination and summer cucumber pollination in 1999. The colonies were examined to determine health and strength. About 75% of colonies in apple pollination were found to have the minimum strength requirement of 4 frames covered with bees. However, only 31% of beekeepers were found to have all of their surveyed colonies meeting this requirement. 41% of the colonies were infested by tracheal mites and 4% by varroa mites. 10% of the surveyed colonies were queenless, but these were mostly provided by one beekeeper, whose colonies were 50% queenless. Summer results were similar, with about 79% of the colonies having 4 or more frames of bees. 48% had tracheal mites, and 20% had varroa mites. Only 7% of summer colonies were queenless. As a follow-up to the spring colony survey, the apple pollination results were screened to find 2 well-pollinated orchards, and 2 poorly pollinated orchards. From these orchards, Red Delicious and Ida Red apples were picked, and measurements of weight, volume, height, width, and breadth were taken. The radial lengths of each carpel were also measured, and the number of viable seeds counted. Statistical analysis was used to determine if there was a difference in apple quality due to the difference in pollination levels. Results showed significant increase in the average weight, volume and width of each variety in the well-pollinated orchards. There was also an increase in the number of seeds in Ida Red apples from well-pollinated orchards. Apple weight was significantly correlated to the number of seeds. With each extra seed, the weight increased by 4 grams in Ida Red apples, and 7 grams in Red Delicious apples. Overall, the higher pollination level resulted in higher quality fruit. A survey regarding pollination services was sent to apple growers, cucumber growers, and beekeepers. Results concerning the number of acres with bees for pollination, the number of colonies placed per acre of different crops, rental fees, colony strength and health, timing of delivery and removal of colonies, pollination agreements and pollination concerns were obtained. It was found that the number of colonies per acre in apple was below the recommendations of 2 colonies per acre. There were only 0.5-0.75 colonies placed per acre. The number of colonies in cucumber were 0.5-0.75 per acre, but still below the recommendations of 1 colony per acre. All beekeepers and growers had verbal agreements for pollination services. Most growers did not know how strong a colony should be, and 61% beekeepers thought that a colony should have between 4 and 8 frames of bees. All beekeepers providing summer pollination services also provided spring pollination services. Fewer beekeepers provided summer pollination, although the prices for summer pollination are higher. Most growers paid an average of $50 per colony for spring pollination, and $75 on average for summer pollination. Although most growers were satisfied with their pollination services, they were concerned about the availability and strength of colonies in the future, due to mites and other problems. A Grower's Perspective of the Value of Honey Bees for Pollination - Vic Hann, Grower, Norwich, Ontario For pickling cucumber growers, honey bee pollination is very important, and even more so with the changeover from hand picking to machine harvest. Machine harvest requires changing pollination management. Plantings should be staggered, but because of problems with heat in July and cold in September, a double crop can only be accomplished in more moderate areas, such as near Lake Erie in southwestern Ontario. Pickling cucumbers are machine harvested only once, all at the same time. As a result, the timing of pollination is critical to ensure uniform maturity and high quality cucumbers. It is known that bees are required, but the number of colonies per acre is not known. Presently, the recommendation is 1 colony/acre, but this figure was determined for hand harvested cucumbers. Many growers do not know how important it is to have enough bees. Pollination levels are different for different circumstances. Weather, for example, can change pollination requirements. And no matter how many bees are in a field, they will not perform if the weather does not allow it. Growers are not into beekeeping, so they need education in these areas. They may not necessarily know all the details of successful pollination, especially since pollination management continues to change. By working together and sharing knowledge, growers and beekeepers will be able to cooperate more easily to achieve maximum yields and benefits. Beekeeping and Pollination in the US - Dan Mayer, Professor, Washington State University, Prosser, Washington, USA Many methods to improve pollination have been tested in the past, including the use of helicopters to distribute pollen, dusting, bouquets, and hand pollination using brushes. Generally, only the use of bouquets is both successful and feasible, with the help of bees. Many types of bees have been tested also, with the conclusion of honey bees being the most effective. Throughout history there have been cases of honey bee poisoning. In the U.S. there are about 15 "catastrophic" cases of honey bee poisoning, amounting to 2,000-10,000 colonies being killed, each year. The pesticides causing bee kills have changed through the years, but there have been no advances in the prevention of such incidences. Pesticide applicators must abide by the product label, which should include a bee safety statement, with regards to the toxicity of the chemical to bees and its persistence. Pesticides must not be applied during bloom (The definition of "bloom" in Washington is stated as "5 or more open blooms per square yard" or "10% of tassels shedding pollen" in corn). This is a state law with a penalty of license suspension for 6 months or more, and up to $50,000 in fines. The best way to avoid bee kills is to apply pesticides in the late evening. Toxicity also depends on formulation. Dusts are most toxic to bees, then wettable powders, followed by emulsifiable pesticides. Panel Discussion - Graham Roberts, OBA President Beekeepers should take into account the "big picture" when it comes to providing pollination services. Things to consider: crops in the area, availability of bees (season), what the bees are being used for (honey, queen production, etc.), swarm control, going rate of colony rentals, cost of hired help, the condition of equipment, modifications in management for grower demands, reliable transport with safety equipment, bee damage and theft, spray damage, growers' knowledge and respect for bees and beekeeper health. The price of colony rental was a topic of fierce discussion. Spray kills, trucks, trailers, lifts, labour and bee health must be taken into consideration when setting prices. It was estimated that to account for the costs of fuel, labour, equipment and vehicle maintenance, $25 must be charged per colony before any profit is made. As well as covering colony movement expenses, the rental fee must pay for the lost honey crop. Remember, there is very little honey to be made in cucumber. There are different rates for hand-picked and machine harvest cucumber pollination rentals, due to the length of time the colonies are in the field. The amount a beekeeper should charge for a second move was also questioned. Work needs to be done on moving colonies, on trailers, to different locations within the same field (e.g. second move in machine harvest cucumbers) to resolve issues of bee drifting. Public safety and liability was also an issue, with regards to farmers moving the bees themselves after delivery by the beekeeper. It was agreed that written agreements would aid in assuring colony strength for the grower and bee safety for the beekeeper. Grower attendance was low at the symposium. Pollination is not an issue of concern to only beekeepers, but is far more important to growers. How can we promote this meeting to more growers? If education and communication is the key for successful pollination services, we need more growers to be present at meetings such as this one. Medhat Nasr, Ph.D. Research Scientist, Ontario Beekeepers' Association Dept. Environmental Biology University of Guelph Guelph, Ontario, Canada N1G 2W1 Tel: (519) 824-4120 Ext: 6243 Fax:(519)837-0442 e-mail: mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:49:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roger Flanders Subject: Re: Human diseases of beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Rollins wrote on 4/11/00: "There are more ticks here year round than most places have in the warm months. I am far healthier now that I keep bees than any other time in my life." My question is, has anyone found an insect repellent that is effective on ticks, or something I could spray near my hives that wouldn't kill my bees? --Rog Flanders ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 05:08:06 +1200 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: New from NZ... In-Reply-To: <200004121219.IAA02618@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Questions: > Does New Zealand have a migratory beekeeping industry? Not to any great extent. Hives in some areas are moved for pollination, but we don't have the extensive and regular migratory industry such as, say, Australia or parts of the US. > How does New Zealand's $1.8 million queen export business stand to be > affected by this discovery? Strictly I think the $1.8 million value is for both package and queen exports. The affects can only really be decided by our trading partners, I would expect. I don't think it improves our potential... > Doesn't Australia accept imported queens from New Zealand, and is anybody > taking another look now for possible infestation of varroa in Australia? No, Australia has never imported bees or queens from New Zealand, so they have no risk of an outbreak from this at all. > Does Hawaii accepted imported queens from New Zealand? Again, no. New Zealand's packages and queens are trans-shipped through Hawaii using closely monitored procedures developed about 6 years ago. The safeguards imposed would eliminate this as a risk, in my opinion. (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz 'Order' files from an autoresponder... NZ Bkpg: Commercial Beekeeping (Story)? Email to: comm@beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:10:39 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Chilling of bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pat and Tom I think you will find that early loss of bees, in the circumstances that = you both describe, can be attributed to chilling. Not much that you can do, maybe my sites are a little more sheltered = than yours but I have noticed that very little occurs when using Open = Mesh Floors (yes Ken is promoting them once again). But it's true, obviously not a scientific study, but it's working for = me. I ask could it be that with the added ventilation the hive does not = heat up as quickly as those with a solid floor and entrance block. Maybe = the cooling retards brood laying, well it's not the first year I have = used them and this has not been a previous experience. At the same time = although I have only made a full examination on one hive (just to make = sure it was okay before I united a bunch of 'followers' to them) lifting = off the crown board of the remainder shows that generally they are very = strong. When you think about it the brood rearing temperature of 34C (93F) is = only maintained in a very small area, the rest of the box could be quite = cool. In would be nice to hear from some of the list members in really cold = places like the northern states of America and Canada, do they suffer = similar? Open mesh floors are basically varroa screens EXCEPT no solid floor is = placed below it. Which advert is it that states - There = Greatttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt ? Ken Hoare ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:54:20 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Donovan Subject: Pseudoscorpions and Varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit During the last few years there have been several messages mentioning the possibility that African pseudoscorpions which live in hives there might have potential as predators of Varroa. Is anyone working on this? Can anyone point me towards information please. Thankyou. Barry J. Donovan Canterbury Agriculture and Science Centre, Lincoln New Zealand. DonovanB@Crop.cri.nz ________ CAUTION: The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential. If you read this message and you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. Any opinions or views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of their employer. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:42:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Kevin P. Sargent" Subject: Re: AHB OR AFB-EFB OR PESTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit COULD ONE OF THE PROFESSIONAL BEEKEEPERS POST A LIST ON WHICH IS THE WORST TO HAVE= 1)=AFRICANIZED HONEY BEES 2)=AMERICAN FOULBROOD 3)=EUROPEAN FOULBROOD 4)=MITES QO BEETLES PLEASE POST IN ORDER YOUR #1 WORST TO YOUR #4 WORST TO HAVE OR GET? AND LIST HOW WE CAN STOP THE SPREAD OF THEM ACROSS THE COUNTRY? THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:18:29 +0100 Reply-To: Steven Turner Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steven Turner Organization: Beenet UK Host Subject: Kentbee.com beekeeping website MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hope nobody will mind a plug for a new beekeeping web site at http://www.kentbee.com/ What's on! 1. Nick Withers swarm control methods with pictures and illustrations 2. Beekeeping picture competition open to UK beekeepers 3. Join the HIVE chat room 4. Kentbee message forum 5. Kent beekeepers mailing list 6. Online Auction room for beekeeping equipment 7. Beekeeping links page Steven Turner st@zbee.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:25:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: University of Michigan Subject: AHB and Cape bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Did anyone notice the article on today's ABCNews.com about AHB and the Cape bee? Interesting, and relates to a recent paper by Madeleine Beekman in Nature. Here's the URL: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/bees000412.html Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:22:53 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: AHB and Cape bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/13/00 10:01:59 AM, tvf@UMICH.EDU writes: << http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/bees000412.html >> Interesting. "(USDA researcher Robert) Danka explains Cape bees would invade not only the colonies of killer bees, but also virtually all bee colonies, causing them to become nonproductive or to die. Cape bee genes could mix with those of our honeybees, ruining hundreds of years of selective breeding." Somebody mentioned in a recent post that one of the problems US inspectors are on the lookout for is the Cape bee. I was wondering why. When Danka says nonproductive, does that apply to the time after invasion when the colony becomes a fully functioning Cape bee colony? Does that mean they won't produce surplus honey for market? Or does it mean that they are inefficient pollinators? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:23:49 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: AHB and Cape bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted Fischer wrote: > > Did anyone notice the article on today's ABCNews.com about AHB and the > Cape bee? Interesting, and relates to a recent paper by Madeleine > Beekman in Nature. Here's the URL: > > http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/bees000412.html > Hi Ted, I found the article well done but geared to the unimformed general public. If a beekeeper is knowledgeable about the cape bee and AHB he might say " nothing new here". If a beekeepers knowledge of the cape bee is limited he NEEDS to read the article for sure. I am very glad Paul Danka pointed out the cape bee will not ever be a cure for AHB and would be a huge problem for beekeepers around the world. Quote from article: "Psuedoqueens don't work like workers and they aren't normally as reproductive as regular queens. The colony becomes dysfunctional and you wind up with a bunch of misfits" The part about AHB wasn't done very good in the opinion. Hey! I have got the right to my opinion! I take don't like the word deadly in describing AHB. A better choice of words would have been better in my humble opinion. OK! Not allways so humble! I would have left out the part about a man in Texas being stung to death by the exact number of stings. How many times will the Texas story be told over and over in non beekeeping circles? Is that the only part of the article the general public will remember? Hello! Please go to the site and decide for yourselves! Thanks Ted for taking the time to list site for all. Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:37:15 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lance Gillette Subject: Re: AHB and Cape bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Cape honey bee (Apis mellifera capensis) is a regular honey bee and pollinator and South Africans do use modern bee equipment with moving frames, etc. I lived in the Cape for a few years and assisted someone with their hives a few times. I'm only becoming a beekeeper next week so I can't really compare them to Italians or Carnolians yet. I did get the impression from my friend that they are more aggressive than your typical US bee. South African beekeepers highly prize the Apis mellifera scutellata as a high honey producer and are concerned about the inroads the Cape bee has made into traditional scutellata areas. Quite an irony that they wish to preserve and maintain the bee the US wants to keep out. Apparently there has been an increase in migratory beekeepers in the last decade which may be the cause of the problem. >becomes a fully functioning Cape bee colony? Does that mean they won't >produce surplus honey for market? Or does it mean that they are inefficient >pollinators? ______________________________________________________ Lance Gillette Bibliographic Access Management Elmer E. Rasmuson Library University of Alaska Fairbanks Tel. (907) 474-7206 Email: FNLDG1@uaf.edu Fax. (907) 474-5068 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 11:51:48 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: AHB and Cape bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Mitchell wrote: > When Danka says > nonproductive, does that apply to the time after invasion when the colony > becomes a fully functioning Cape bee colony? Hi John, I asked a noted researcher the same question. He said the problem with Apis Mellifera capensis is the ability to produce females (workers & queens) by parthenogenesis. Thelytoky is the origin of females from unfertilized eggs. The Cape Bee is well known for the ability of its workers to parthenogenetically produce diploid workers as well as haploid drones. This results from the regeneration of a diploid nucleus soon following meiosis of the egg. Hope the above answers your question. Happy Beekeeping, Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 11:48:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: AHB and Cape bees John Mitchell asks: "When Danka saysWhen Danka says nonproductive does that apply to the time after the invasion when the colony becomes a fully functioning Cape bee colony?" I read the article on the Internet (ABC news) and here is my interpretation: The European Honey Bee (or AHB) colony becomes non-productive. I think he was talking about the colony that was "under attack" by the Cape bees becoming non-productive. Cape bees are a specialty of some beekeepers in Africa and the impression I got is that a Cape bee colony is productive. I don't know how they compare to EHB production, though. From what I have read, EHB is supposed to be the most productive honey bees that there are. That's why they were imported into Asia...because they produced more than Apis cerana. I thought that's the reason given by some for the Varroa mite jumping host. Layne Westover College Station, Texas, U.S.A. (sorry if I messed up a little on the quote at top) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:20:32 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: AHB and Cape bees Comments: To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/13/00 8:48:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM writes: > I found the article well done but geared to the unimformed general > public. If a beekeeper is knowledgeable about the cape bee and AHB he > might say " nothing new here". If a beekeepers knowledge of the cape bee > is limited he NEEDS to read the article for sure. Try this for much more info: http://pollinator.com/worldwide_threats.htm Dave Green ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:11:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Robert J. Cessac" Subject: Re: Human diseases of beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roger, go to Bee-L and do a search on insect repellant. It will come up with many good post. Any insect repellant or ground spray with permethrin is good to repell ticks. Bob Cessac Roger Flanders wrote: > Joe Rollins wrote on 4/11/00: "There are more ticks here year round > than most places have in the warm months. I am far healthier now that > I keep bees than any other time in my life." > > My question is, has anyone found an insect repellent that is effective > on ticks, or something I could spray near my hives that wouldn't kill > my bees? > --Rog Flanders ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 14:25:23 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: AHB and Cape bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/13/00 1:44:24 PM, Pollinator@AOL.COM writes: << http://pollinator.com/worldwide_threats.htm >> Thanks again Dave. Your info. is golden. the following seems to succinctly state the problem with the hybrid colonies: "In apiaries with both scutellata and capensis colonies, Cape bees drift into scutellata colonies where they are insufficiently controlled by the scutellata queen. This results in the eventual loss of the scutellata queen, and the capensis workers taking over all reproduction in the colony. Further capensis workers are produced, with the final outcome being a complete capensis laying worker colony. These colonies tend not to be productive, gradually dwindle, and eventually abscond or die." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:51:24 PST Reply-To: haymedhon@telus.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Hancock Subject: Momafest destiny If the computer gods will allow me, I would like to correct a small typo in my last post. The word "ignoring" should read "... admiring, appreciating and listening to ...". So all those who have volunteered to come up and keep my hammock warm and carry on ignoring my wife while I'm off making my fortune can just forget it. ( I tell you .... Beekeepers! They're all the same.) Ted Hancock, so far north it's not on the map. ================================================================= Internet service provided by telus.net http://www.telus.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:53:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark G Spagnolo Subject: Varroa in NZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I read Nick's post concerning Varroa in New Zealand with both surprise = and disappointment. Surprise because I am familiar with the care taken by the New Zealanders = to maintain their mite-free status. I believed they had overcome = suspicion and jelousy to really come together for the good of their = industry. The import of all bee products and equipment was tightly = regulated. I knew a beekeeper who had his favorite veil confiscated = when he landed in New Zealand! He was taken to the customs office and = detained for several hours! I am disappointed because now only Hawaii can be considered "mite-free". = If breeding is the answer to controlling mites, a mite-free environment = is crucial. In light of the New Zealand experience, it is only a matter = of time before the mites invade Hawaii. The controls are in Hawaii are = not nearly as tight as those in New Zealand. Has anyone considered the effect this discovery could have on the = package and queen market? Will Canada open its border to bee and queen = imports? Hawaii will never be able to supply the numbers of queens and = package bees needed in Canada. Will an open Canadian border affect the = pollination and packaged and queen industry in California? Will this = effect the price of pollination in the almond orchards? Amazing how the discovery of a few small mites in a small apiary in New = Zealand could possibly effect the fortunes of many people many thousands = of miles away. Any thoughts from Canada, New Zealand, Hawaii or California? Walter, are you willing to let bees with mites land in Honolulu on the = way to Canada? I spent seven years in Hawaii raising queens and have spent many hours = discussing the forces that drive this market. This discovery is bound = to throw this delicate relationship into chaos! I am waiting for the = fallout! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 07:42:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley <"thom_fried SPAM tastes good_brad"@VISI.NET> Subject: Tidewater VA Annual Short Course MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Last Reminder The Tidewater Beekeeper's Association Annual Short Course begins this evening. It will be held at the Agricultural Research Station on Diamond Springs Rd. just west of Rt. 13 in Virginia Beach, Virginia. The address is 1444 Diamond Springs Rd. Registration will begin this evening at 6:00 PM and Saturday morning at 7:30 AM. We will have 2 VA State inspectors speak on various topics this year as well as programs presented by local beekeepers providing practical knowledge regarding beekeeping in this region. For More information see our website. http://groups.hamptonroads.com/beekeepers For last minute questions you may call me at 757-889-4756 or email me , I will monitor it until 5 PM. Thom Bradley Tidewater Beekeeper's Association ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:45:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: University of Michigan Subject: New York mosquito control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I noticed in the New York Times on the web this morning that the city has made a decision not to spray malathion for mosquito control this year, changing their previous policy. Read about their new control ideas in: http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/regional/nile.html Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:40:26 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: Varroa in NZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark G Spagnolo wrote: > > I am disappointed because now only Hawaii can be considered "mite-free". I am glad you used the word considered. How many NZ packages went out this year with a male and female Varroa and their suitcases? We used to have a saying in the U.S. " There are two kinds of beekeepers-Those with Varroa and those going to get Varroa!" > If breeding is the answer to controlling mites, a mite-free environment = > is crucial. If you are breeding for resistance to Varroa why would a mite free environment be crucial? I could see where it might be slightly helpful when dealing with expensive breeder queens but crucial? I am not a queen breeder. In light of the New Zealand experience, it is only a matter = > of time before the mites invade Hawaii. The controls are in Hawaii are = > not nearly as tight as those in New Zealand. Maybe as in NZ they are allready there but haven't surfaced yet. I am still trying to figure how they got in the U.S.,Canada and now N.Z. as each country had controls in place. > Will an open Canadian border affect the = > pollination and packaged and queen industry in California? Many Canadian beekeepers feel they never got the quality of packages & queens from NZ that they did from California. Shortage on wts. from NZ is common knowledge. I am only repeating what i have been told so probbably should let the Canadians respond but i buy all my queens in California from Wooten's and i am thrilled with the queens and service. Demand for their queens is so high you need to order at least 50 + to place a order. U.S. queen breeders will do their best to fill the void left by NZ if the borders are opened. Will this = > effect the price of pollination in the almond orchards? Why would you ever think NZ getting mites would effect the price of pollination in California. Not enough hives could raise the prices maybe this year if hives keep crashing do to fluvalinate resistance. > > Amazing how the discovery of a few small mites in a small apiary in New = > Zealand could possibly effect the fortunes of many people many thousands = > of miles away. I have seen more changes in the beekeeping industry in the last fifteen years than any time in history. Wonder what the next fifteen are going to be like? Happy beekeeping! Bob Harrison U.S.A. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:24:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Russian Queen Acceptance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I would like to know if anyone has had a problem with acceptance of the new Russian queens. I was told from a breeder , that they have been having problems with acceptance. It may be the breeder or the stock? Thanks for any info Roy Nettlebeck. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:50:37 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jonathan Ruel Subject: breeding for Varroa tolerance (or resistance) In-Reply-To: <200004140402.AAA03023@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Mark G Spagnolo wrote: >" I am disappointed because now only Hawaii can be considered "mite-free". = > If breeding is the answer to controlling mites, a mite-free environment = >is crucial. In light of the New Zealand experience, it is only a matter = >of time before the mites invade Hawaii." It seems to me that any breeding for resistance to the mite would have to take place in the presence of the mite. You need the mite to help you decide which lines to select (or to act as the selective force by wiping out the highly susceptible colonies). Breeding for absolute resistance to any pest can often be quite problematic (e.g., it can lead to counter resistance in the pest). A more practical approach is to breed genetic lines that are not highly susceptible to the pests (pest population remains low) and can tolerate low levels of the pest and still yield good amounts of your crop whether it's sweet corn or honey. Breeding for this sort of tolerance of Varroa mites is a reality (see Erickson et al. in American Bee Journal -Dec 1999 931-933 and ABJ 1998, 138:828-832; maybe try the ARS-bee lab (Tucson) website http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov ). Since 1994, they have used selective breeding to develop a population of colonies that have consistently low levels of infestation. They go on to say that this sort of breeding will be an integral part of the Integrated Pest Mangaement (IPM) program they are developing. I had the opportunity to spend a few days at the bee lab in Tucson and work a day with the commercial beekeeper who is also an author on the papers. I was very impressed by the their work, to the point that I do not believe Varroa mites will be much of a problem in the long run. It is worth noting that their work was conducted in SE Arizona, in the heart of AHB country for two reasons: 1) they did not find that AHB's were more resistant to Varroa and 2) they may be wearing more protective gear but they're still keeping bees and extracting much honey in this area. Jonathan Ruel Plant-Insect Ecologist and Novice Beekeeper Flagstaff, AZ USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:14:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Checking for varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I have spent some time recently examining varroa inserts, using magnifying glasses and other aids to my ageing eyes to attempt to spot the infernal pests. Anybody who has done this will I believe readily testify, that it is a very difficult procedure, to attempt to identify creatures measuring only 1 mm by 1.1mm in a quite unbelievable lot of pollen, propolis, bees legs etc. I was told recently, and I wish to obtain feedback from the List, about a stunningly simple procedure to examine this debris. You just throw the whole lot into methylated spirits. Whatever floats is either varroa mites or Braula or maybe bees legs etc. Everything else sinks. You thus narrow down the area of investigation to a very small number of possibilities. I have tried it and it seems to work Can the List please say if what I have been told is correct? Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:32:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: Re: Russian Queen Acceptance In-Reply-To: <200004141956.PAA21225@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > a problem with acceptance of the > new Russian queens. > I was told from a breeder , that they have been having problems with > acceptance. It may be the breeder or the stock? Hello Roy - I know of three breeders in Florida using the USDA Russian stock that, "have found much poorer mating acceptance than other stock grafted same day and used in same mating yards. This has cut into our profits by at least 30%." Characteristics mentioned for the breeder queens were, "nervous queens, very spotty layers and one white marked queen line wants to rear cells all the time." I know one has returned 800 queen cells to the ARS bee lab due to poor matings; "he is getting about 85% matings from Italian and Carnolian queen cells and only 35% average from Russian cells." Another queen breeder from TX also quit grafting from his Russian breeder because of dissatisfaction. The reply from ARS, (one individual) was they suspect the problem to be the drones, not the queens. They see it as a one year problem with the following year giving the breeders the healthy fast russian drones to mate with the russian queens. This did not wash, as an acceptable reason, with the breeders. In the end, they could not adequately explain the problems with reintroduction of the well mated Russian queens. Some are wondering if the real problem is a pheromone one. Perhaps someone from the USDA can shed more light on this. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, IL U.S.A. www.beesource.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:41:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Russian Queen Acceptance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Call them Russian if you want; but they are just a stock of Carniolans. As is often the case, the breeder is trying to introduce a new queen into a colony containing forager age bees which makes introduction more difficult. You can introduce ANY QUEEN into a nuc colony of nurse bees that has few or no forager age bees. I hope I have helped. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:29:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: BEE-L has grown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit from the LISTSERV, today's BEE-L membership count: * Total number of "concealed" subscribers: 13 * Total number of users subscribed to the list: 723 (non-"concealed" only) * Total number of local host users on the list: 0 (non-"concealed" only) At this time of year, we have just completed a list renewal process and only those who have sent in a recent subscription request are on the list, so this is a good idea of how many active readers BEE-L has. We welcome all the new people. For those who are just trying to figure things out and are wondering about an FAQ, please visit http://www.internode.net/Honeybee/BEE-L/guidelines.htm and maybe browse some of the related pages there as well. They have had 4200+ visits in the last months, so they must be useful to many. Checking these pages out will give you a sense of the flavour of BEE-L and its history and how to fit in comfortably. You might like to browse the archives from there and read the discussions and debates in the past between some pretty good beekeepers, some of whom are unfortunately no longer with us. Visiting the guidelines is a good idea for some of the old timers here too, because we still get some posts with huge sigs, attachments, or excessive quotes from some who should know better. Beginners in particular may want to try to also subscribe to sci.agriculture.beekeeping (s.a.b), a longstanding USENET group that is lately developing into a very good forum for a wide range of topics from the most basic to the technical. I have put together a page at http://www.internode.net/Honeybee/Bee/sci.htm to assist those who are having problems getting a good newsfeed to get to read s.a.b and to give good simple access to a power search of their archives. allen ----- Diary, pictures & much more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ Current topics: cell size, worker bee size, package installation, winter loss, fondant feeding, Pierco vs Permadent, wrapping bees, AFB, and more... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:13:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joe Edwards Subject: Varroa in NZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In regards to Canadians being dissatisfied with NZ packages. The last few years I've been using NZ packages and found very good results with honey production and with wintering. Last year I bought 50 packages from NZ and the next spring I only had a 3% loss, so I was pretty happy with that. But now that NZ is closed there still is no evidence that an open border to USA would benefit the Canadian beekeepers. Many beekeepers here already are self sufficient in regards to raising their own Queens and making up their wintering losses. The only reason why NZ packages came to Canada is it was easier for us, but now that option isn't there and some spectulation that Australia won't be able to supply the need it will force us to change and learn to raise our own and the owns that don't will buy them from their nieghbor beekeeper who is raising surplus queens. Joe Edwards Up north ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:26:29 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Varroa in NZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First of all, commiserations to our friends in New Zealand. If it is of any consolation, arriving late in the great game means that you can learn from other people's mistakes. My only advice based on personal experience is to beware the third year, 2002 in your case. Varroa was found in September? 1992 in UK in Devon, the next county to me, about 60 miles away. I found my first in April 1993. That year was ok, so was 1994. 1995 was the best year for a long time for honey but come the autumn the population crashes cut in. I went down from 9 to 3 colonies. A chap a few miles away went down from 39 to 1, so I was one of the luckier ones. We were all using Bayvarol and spending a fortune on it. It is amazing how the price has come down now there is competition in the market place. Referring now to Mark Spagnolo's post I do not understand his statement that if beeeding is the answer to controlling mites, a mite free environment is crucial. I would have thought the opposite would be true. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:44:33 -0500 Reply-To: dehenry@mb.sympatico.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Doug Henry Subject: Re: Varroa in NZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got started with NZ packages and used them to supplement losses as necessary. I now find local breeders can supply all requirements. In my view Canada is now independent from need to source queens/packages externally. Doug Henry Lockport Manitoba Joe Edwards wrote: > In regards to Canadians being dissatisfied with NZ packages. The last > few years I've been using NZ packages and found very good results with > honey production and with wintering. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 19:55:35 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gordon Subject: Moving bees from house. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a swarm that has moved into a house about l week ago. It is = between the first and second floor about 3 feet in from the outside = wall. Is there any way beside drumming to remove these bees without = killing them. I have built a very good vacuum system for extracting bees = but I cannot get to them with it. Will ultrasonic equipment work on = bees. Any ideas or options would be appreciated. Thanks, Gordon Mason