From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jun 17 06:53:29 2000 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29398 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10467 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200006171053.GAA10467@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:10 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0004C" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 157327 Lines: 3396 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:04:57 PST Reply-To: haymedhon@telus.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Hancock Subject: Plagues Kevin P. Sargent wrote: WHICH IS THE WORST TO HAVE: 1. AFRICANIZED HONEY BEES 2. AMERICAN FOULBROOD 3. EUROPEAN FOULBROOD 4. MITES QO BEETLES PLEASE POST IN ORDER YOUR #1 WORST TO YOUR #4 WORST TO HAVE OR GET? AND LIST HOW WE CAN STOP THE SPREAD OF THEM ACROSS THE COUNTRY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME reply from Lorenzo Lorraine Straincloth, Jr. III University of MustConfess Destiny Comparative Analysis of Beehive Plagues If a beekeeper on an island has nothing to eat but honey he can live... six months honey and bananas... twelve months honey, bananas, and milk... eighteen months Then he commits suicide at the sight of his next meal. The beehive on the island gets AFB, or EFB... dies in six months gets the lesser hive beetle... dies the first time it's kicked (greater hive beetle?)... hasn't reached the island yet gets varroa... dies in three years gets tracheal mite... lives indefinitely get African honey bee... beekeeper leaves the island Best way to stop the spread of diseases? Eat honey, bananas and milk for eighteen months. Hope this helps. ================================================================= Internet service provided by telus.net http://www.telus.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:49:28 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: AHB OR AFB-EFB OR PESTS Comments: cc: MAPLEHILLSUGAR@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/12/00 6:27:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, writes: > COULD ONE OF THE PROFESSIONAL BEEKEEPERS POST A LIST ON WHICH > IS THE WORST TO HAVE= > > 1)=AFRICANIZED HONEY BEES > 2)=AMERICAN FOULBROOD > 3)=EUROPEAN FOULBROOD > 4)=MITES QO BEETLES Not on your list is the worst hazard facing bees, which is pesticide misuse. It is the worst, because the solutions depend on the actions of pesticide users, who may or may not obey the law, and enforcers, who may or more likely may not enforce the law. There is little a beekeeper can personally do to solve the problem, unless it is to feed damaged bees and try to help them recover. All other efforts must be directed at getting others to obey/enforce the law. Unfortunately beekeepers will not unite in this endeavor. Recent discussion on this list, of mosquito spraying by public agencies focused on plans of notifying beekeepers and then the beekeepers are considered responsible. This plan is not feasable, and is, in fact a seizure of the beekeepers' property (read the Bill of Rights). If you are a hobbyist and they are spraying in the daytime, how you gonna' explain to your boss that you have to take a sick day to take care of your bees? If you are a commercial beekeeper, and they are doing aerial spraying (and you can't even find out exactly where on that day!), how are you gonna "protect" the seven bee yards that "might" be in the applicator's path? All this is based on a scheme to do an "end run" around the label directions, which actually are the law. Whenever beekeepers do not work together to require applicators to comply with the law, we are our own worst enemy. One outlandish suggestion touted was to put balloons on the bee yards. Sheesh! Until beekeepers quit running everytime we are told to run, this will continue. We are the turkeys at the turkey shoot. And the wild bees, that the ivory tower guys say will save the day when honeybees are gone, are going to be the worst hit, whenever applicators spray in violation. Every beekeeper should get copies of the labels of insecticides used in their area (you can find out how at: http://pollinator.com/pesticide_misuse.htm) The instructions protect bees where they need it: AT THE FLOWER! Then work to get applicators to OBEY those instructions, rather than EVADE them by notifying beekeepers, or by turning off the sprayer over the hives (ineffective, because bees are contaminated at the flower not at the hive). > PLEASE POST IN ORDER YOUR #1 WORST TO YOUR #4 WORST TO HAVE OR GET? Well, I guess I can take a stab: 2 (after pesticide misuse)=AMERICAN FOULBROOD Definitely the next, now that there are resistant strains of this bacteria. 3)=MITES QO BEETLES Actually you have three different things here. Tracheal mites were a bad hit, because we didn't know anything about them, but they are minor now, easily controlled by good breeding. Varroa mites are more serious, but any losses I've had from them have resulted from my own inattention. I've not had enough experience yet with the beetles to rate them. 4)=AFRICANIZED HONEY BEES No real experience with them, so I don't really know. I expect them to be manageable, especially after the first couple years. My biggest concern is how I'm going to deal with heat exhaustion, if I have to wear a bee suit, which I don't do now (because heat will get me a lot quicker than my bees). 5)=EUROPEAN FOULBROOD: very minor problem, controllable by good breeding. I saw the first case this spring in several years. Of course this colony also had sacbrood, one cell of AFB, and pms, as well (good stock to cull). > AND LIST HOW WE CAN STOP THE SPREAD OF THEM ACROSS THE COUNTRY? Probably not possible in this day and time... Quarantines may slow the spread slightly, but free trade and abundant travel can't stop them, as New Zealand has recently discovered. North Carolina had a quarantine, but got varroa about as fast as South Carolina. Mainly it stopped South Carolinians from going to NC, but NC beekeepers freely came into SC for low elevation sourwood, then returned to NC for the later high elevation flow. Once on the road, I bumped into a guy from Savannah, who had a couple hives in the back of his station wagon, headed for his summer home in Asheville. He had never heard of a quarantine, and didn't care anyway. Our next problem may be the Cape Bee; no doubt the recent article touting them as the "solution" to "killer" bees will incite some idiot to import them on the QT. Sigh.....then we'll have to deal with that.... Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:52:25 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: If you need a helper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A young Bulgarian beekeeper contacted me looking for employment with a beekeeper. It's on the Bulletin Board: http://pollinator.com/bulletin_board.htm Dave Green ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:56:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: AHB OR AFB-EFB OR PESTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am not a professional beekeeper by any stretch of the imagination. I rank the threat to beekeeping by hobby keepers as follows. 1. Ignorance 2. Media sensationalism 3. Zoning 4. AHB ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:26:20 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Varroa in NZ In-Reply-To: <200004150224.WAA29347@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I got started with NZ packages and used them to supplement losses as > necessary. I now find local breeders can supply all requirements. In my > view Canada is now independent from need to source queens/packages > externally. Canada imports a lot of packages and queens, the latter item both legally and illegally. Bees are very expensive, so I presume those who purchase them need them. Even with imports, there are shortages of bees in some areas, and some good bee pasture is not exploited because of the high cost of replacement bees and the difficulty and uncertainty of managing overwintered bees. Some operators in prime areas have been very successful at maintaining their numbers over a decade or more without much outside assistance and are pretty cocky about it, not realising that they are riding on luck, and that their turn could come at any time. They are also not considering all the other types of operators in the diverse regions of the country that want or need cheap bees. My experience in this part of Alberta is that the successful commercial operators typically purchase packages amounting to about 10% of their numbers each year as a form of insurance and to reduce the demands on their hives from splitting. Offshore queens are consumed in high numbers in early spring. Sure they could get by without buying bees, but they have enough to do without trying to compete with those who are better situated to raise replacement bees. Sure we can get by without any imports. That applies to more than bees; we can get by without Florida oranges and Mexican tomatoes, and Middle eastern oil, and Korean microwaves and Dodge turbo diesel trucks from the states, but the quality of life and the effort to maintain it would be much higher, and the opportunities less. There is no doubt that if all imports were to be cut off, there would still be successful beekeepers in Canada, but there would be many less and the areas with resident large beekeepers would be fewer. Some essential activities that depend on bees, but are hard on them, like pollination, would suffer. > > In regards to Canadians being dissatisfied with NZ packages. The last > > few years I've been using NZ packages and found very good results with > > honey production and with wintering. In the past 30 years, I have had good and bad packages from the USA, good and bad packages from Australia, good and bad packages from New Zealand. I've had good and bad queens from the USA, including Hawaii, good and bad queens from the Australia, and good and bad queens from New Zealand. Each country is diverse and each producer has good seasons and bad seasons. Generalizing is like saying all dogs are Great Danes. Cheers allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:26:28 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: What's on a Sticky Board In-Reply-To: <200004142252.SAA26762@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have spent some time recently examining varroa inserts... it is a very > difficult procedure, to attempt to identify creatures measuring only 1 mm by > 1.1mm in a quite unbelievable lot of pollen, propolis, bees legs etc. I am told that there are not only matures, but immature on the floor too, because many varroa do not complete their development and die when the bee emerges. I have not been able to identify many of the translucent and organic shaped things on the floor, and would love to have some input into what all I am looking at. allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:36:56 -0400 Reply-To: bkeep@epix.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Chapin Subject: Re: experienced beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A friend and experienced beekeeper from Belarus, who speaks English and was here on a visit a few years ago, has approval for a six months visa starting now. If you can provide employment, please contact me at Thanks. Richard Chapin ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 10:34:30 -0700 Reply-To: Bosaiya Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bosaiya Subject: Sudden allergic reaction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is strange. I've been around bees all my life. My father was a beekeeper and didn't think anything of letting me run around the apiary getting stung when I did the things two year olds are going to do left unsupervised. I'm a little smarter now, and only get stung on occasion, usually from something silly. Recently I added a few new (used) hives. Yesterday I was pushing some hard candy through the entrances because the weather turned extremely foul and I didn't want to open them up to add food. I got stung twice. One near my knee and the other near my eyebrow. The knee sting was typical: it hurt like hell for a few seconds and then I didn't notice it again. I don't swell or itch. Then the eyebrow one started up... At first I could tell it was just swelling up a bit. Didn't seem like a big deal. After a while I could actually see the swelling out of that eye. It was sort of amusing. Then it started to get sore and it hurt to touch it a little. As the hours passed it got larger and larger. Eventually it began to give me flashbacks of my boxing days. I wasn't the only one who made that association. I went to bed. When I woke up in the morning I could hardly see out of that eye, it was practically swollen shut. There were no other symptoms. No nausea, or dizziness, or anything else at all. Just a goofy looking face. I iced it for a while and now it's back down to the puffy-boxing look. It's annoying, but I can function. So what's the deal? Mutant bees? I've read plenty of times how someone who was previously "immune" can succumb to an allergic reaction. But since I got stung within a minute in a different location, and didn't have any signs at all I find that a little strange. Just thought I'd check and see if others have had similar reactions, or explanations. Regards, Bosaiya .....designs to knock you out..... http://www.knockoutproductions.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 15:07:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: grumpy7 Subject: Re: Arthritis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Before bees (six years ago), very painful arthritis in both hands. Since bees, no arthritis. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not. Walter Weller Louisiana ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:22:05 -0400 Reply-To: Honeybees@inorbit.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: BRAINY BEES BEAT BRAWNY BEES. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is another story online about the Cape Bee. It is on the Discovery Channel Website. http://www.discovery.com/ex/ad/newsletter/ news/briefs/20000412/animals_bees.html Garry Libby Attleboro, Massachusetts, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 15:27:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Juandefuca Subject: Re: What's on a Sticky Board Hi The first time I was told to look at a sticky board I was unable to make head and tail out of it. However I pretended I saw them, not to feel stupid in the presense of the " experienced " multitude of beekeepers. Is really immaterial how much other debris is on the board, ONCE you are able to SEE / indentify the mite dead or alive [ And they are rather quick if not stuck] you WILL see them. Depending on you vision factor you might use a magnifying glass to separate the grain from the chaff.Of course, should you have no mite infestation , you will not spot any or have a hard time finding the odd one among the other junk. catfish ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 22:34:37 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Irish Beekeeping discussion list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All The Irish Beekeeping discussion list was started in December 1999. Its primary purpose is to disseminate information on varroa which is a subject near to the hearts of most beekeepers. In Ireland we are becoming very aware of varroa, since we have only recently been stricken by the pest. Now we discover that in faraway New Zealand that the pest has appeared there. I would invite as many beekeepers as possible to join the Irish Beekeeping List as we are in need of as much input as possible from beekeepers with experience of varroa. Many New Zealand beekeepers have now joined the Irish Beekeeping List to get the benefit of our discussions on varroa, and I trust that this posting will result in many varroa experienced fellow beekeepers joining us. I show below the procedures relating to the Irish Beekeeping discussion List. And thank you kindly for your attention. PROCEDURES FOR JOINING THE LIST. Send an e mail to IrishBeekeeping-subscribe@listbot.com Do not put anything in the Subject or in the body of the message. You will obtain an acknowledgment and you will be asked to reply to it. You are now a subscriber. SENDING A MESSAGE TO EVERYBODY ON THE LIST. To send a message to everybody on the list, send an e mail to IrishBeekeeping@listbot.com PROCEDURES FOR VIEWING THE ARCHIVES To see the archives visit http://www.listbot.com Click on Member Login, Click on View List Archives and Click on Irish Beekeeping discussion list. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock, Dublin 18, Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 22:34:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Whats on a sticky board Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Allen Dick writes as follows: >I have not been able to identify many of the translucent and organic shaped >things on the floor, and would love to have some input into what all I am >looking at. I sure would also. Has anybody done any research in this area?. What I would truly love is a photograph of a varroa insert with varroa mites on it, so that I could put this photograph on the Irish Beekeeping web site which I am in the process of putting together. I think that it would be wonderful to have a very precise image of what we are looking for. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 18:14:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Raising queens without drones Recent post: I got started with NZ packages and used them to supplement losses as necessary. I now find local breeders can supply requirments. In my veiw Canada is now independent from the need to source queens/packages externally. I think this post is incorrect although only my opinion. We buy queens for one reason in Missouri and we have milder winters than Canada. Lack of drones at mating time. We can produce plenty of queen cells any time in the spring but our local queen breeders do not graft queens till there are drones capped over and thats the absolute earliest time. When we get cold and wet Aprils most queens don't get mated. We have (myself included) have raised a few queens because this year is the warmest 12 months since record keeping in our area. I started my queens March 6th. this year and 4 out of 5 are laying now. If i could count on success like that every year then i wouldn't have to buy queens. I need queens a full month earlier to produce a decent honey crop. Do the math and i think Canada will see it still needs outside queens. If Canada breeders have a solution to the drone problem in spring please email as i would like to stop buying queens although i am very satisfied with my out of state queen breeder. If Canada is raising the queens in the fall and overwintering like Brother Adam did then i understand but if raising queens in the spring i would think the raising of queens would hurt the honey production because of the extra month plus raising said queens. Happy beekeeping! Bob Harrison Backwoods of Missouri,U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 18:55:26 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Irish Beekeeping discussion list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom, My sympathy is extended to the Irish beekeepers! Having kept bees for 68 years and watched the happenings to our beekeepers all over the USA with the arrival of the tracheal mite in 84 followed by the Varroa mite in 87, gives me concern for beekeeping in Ireland. We beekeepers tend to be highly independent and difficult to convince. I watched so-called EXPERT beekeepers loudly proclaim that they were so knowledgeable, their bees were so well located and managed, and they would never buy a queen or bees from another part of the country that "their bees would never be bothered by either of these mites, particularly the Varroa mite because it was visible to the human eye." Later, some came to me saying: George, I lost 75% or 90% of all my colonies. What do I do? There was one commercial beekeeper up near Pittsburgh who was quite voiceful about how good both he and his bees were, and he refused to treat. In April he had 475 colonies, but 6 months later in October, he had just 9 colonies. He gave up beekeeping. I guess Irish beekeepers are no different that American beekeepers. If that is so, most will IGNORE those things that the bee scientists and bee researchers tell them to do, or they may do it BUT NOT DO IT AT THE CORRECT TIME OF YEAR, OR NOT THE CORRECT DOSE, OR NOT IN THE CORRECT LOCATION WITHIN THE COLONY. After their bees are dead, of course they will say "the treatment recommended by the scientists DIDN'T WORK - they don't know what they are talking about." Tom, those of us who have followed the exact teachings of our scientists and researchers basically have never lost a colony to mites. Many of our commercial beekeepers have 5,000, 10,000, or more colonies and don't lose bees to mites. It is the hobbyist with 5 or 10 colonies who "knows everything" and does NOT accept any knowledge from scientists that are the problem people. Because they are the local neighbor, everyone trusts this guy that seems to know it all. I leave you with a STRONG suggestion. Either contact your government bee scientists or read all the writings of the American scientists about Treatment of bees for Varroa mites, AND FOLLOW THOSE RULES. Your bees will make honey, maybe not as much, but they will stay alive. Those who are greedy and won't treat at the correct time because their supers are still on might wind up with more honey than you, but their bees are DEAD. Decide which way you want to go. Good Luck. George Imirie By the way, do they still foxhunt over there? 30-40 years ago, I used to come over for a week or so and hunt with the Galway blazers and the Scarteens. I enjoyed Ireland and the Irish, but never learned to like Guinness Stout. Scotch was my choice. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 19:54:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Sudden allergic reaction Comments: To: bosaiya@knockoutproductions.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/15/00 1:46:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bosaiya@KNOCKOUTPRODUCTIONS.COM writes: > No nausea, or dizziness, or anything else at all. Just a goofy > looking face. I iced it for a while and now it's back down to the > puffy-boxing look. It's annoying, but I can function. > > So what's the deal? Mutant bees? I've read plenty of times how someone who > was previously "immune" can succumb to an allergic reaction. But since I got > stung within a minute in a different location, and didn't have any signs at > all I find that a little strange. Just thought I'd check and see if others > have had similar reactions, or explanations. -Not a bit unusual; no systemic reaction, just a greater local one. I could probably number stings in five figures, maybe more, and the same thing would happen to me. The area around your eyes, nose, & lips are extremely sensitive. I've had my eyes shut too. In public, I blame my wife... ;o) Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 19:53:54 -0400 Reply-To: Peter John Keating Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter John Keating Subject: Re: What's on a Sticky Board MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, looking for and identifying varroa on a sticky board is somewhat like looking for nosema under a microscope: difficult to identify the first one but afterwards it's much easier. And of course, if it's not there, then it takes a lot longer to check the sticky board. Here in Quebec we use the Phero Tech sticky board which has a very even coating of a good adhesive. I was lucky to have my first experience with varroa mites in 1989 in the Philippines, we had lots! I use a magnifying glass (from a dollar store) and keep it stationery while l move the board. This way the "mites" are always in focus. We live the boards in for no longer than 3 days to avoid debris buildup. Peter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 19:56:42 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Arthritis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/15/00 1:47:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, grumpy7@EMAIL.MSN.COM writes: > Before bees (six years ago), very painful arthritis in both hands. Since > bees, no arthritis. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not. > My arthitis does not go away, but it does get worse when I'm not handling bees, and better when I am. I've got one especially painful knuckle, and I sometimes grab a bee to get her to sting on that one. It helps, but does not cure. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 21:01:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Russian Queen Acceptance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GImasterBK@AOL.COM wrote: > > > As is often the case, the breeder is trying to introduce a new queen into a > colony containing forager age bees which makes introduction more difficult. > You can introduce ANY QUEEN into a nuc colony of nurse bees that has few or > no forager age bees. > > I hope I have helped Thanks George, I agree with any queen ,if she has any pheromones. The breeder told me that they have tried the queens on emerging brood in a cage and that did not work. I will be trying one out with all the tricks I can think of, for a problem introduction. I will use a little QMP ( mandibular gland pheromone ) if just nurse bee's will not solve the problem. Best Regards Roy Nettlebeck ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 07:03:45 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: What's on a Sticky Board MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/15/00 11:47:09 AM, allend@INTERNODE.NET writes: <> Good suggestion for beekeeping classes. I'd travel a ways to learn how to use the screen insert and the gunk that falls underneath it to tell me what's going on, or has been going on, in my hives. I sat down with a microscope recently to do just this, and I think the session could have been a lot more productive if I had had some training. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 07:59:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: AHB OR AFB-EFB OR PESTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 4/15/00 9:43:01 AM, Pollinator@AOL.COM writes: <> "If at first the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it." —Albert Einstein <> In discussions I had a month ago with a Massachusetts Pesticide Board spokesperson concerning the possiblity of spraying malathion to control mosquitoes later this year, I quickly hit a wall when that person said, 'When it comes to the health of honey bees versus the health of humans (to control West Nile virus, which lives in mosquitoes), we'll choose human health every time.' I found it hard to argue with that. Any suggestions you can offer to carry that conversation forward to the advantage of beekeepers would be appreciated. It was then that the spokesperson mentioned the helium balloons that were placed around organic farms to warn off aerial sprayers when malathion was used in this state in 1990. If anybody can take an outlandish idea and make it work, it's beekeepers. If balloons can provide some protection for no cost (distributed by the state) and a very small amount of work, I'll try it. Maybe the balloons could be placed to protect some of the forage too. If your bees are working a big field of purple loosestrife, put some empty hives out there and put up a balloon. But I'm not fooling myself. This is not a real solution to the problem of protecting our hives. But I'm not sure if any protection is possible when government officials decide to suspend the laws regarding pesticide use in the name of public health. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 09:38:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: AHB OR AFB-EFB OR PESTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/16/00 5:44:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, JMitc1014@AOL.COM writes: > If balloons can provide some protection for no cost (distributed by the > state) and a very small amount of work, I'll try it. Maybe the balloons > could > be placed to protect some of the forage too. If your bees are working a big > field of purple loosestrife, put some empty hives out there and put up a > balloon. But I'm not fooling myself. This is not a real solution to the > problem of protecting our hives. But I'm not sure if any protection is > possible when government officials decide to suspend the laws regarding > pesticide use in the name of public health. There are a some serious problems with the approach. One is that it is illegal. The label directions refer to the bees at the flower, not at the hive, so daytime application can only legally be made on a basis of monitoring of the hours bees are out *at the flowers.* See the damages with this method (turning off the sprayer over the hives) at http://members.aol.com/gardenbees/ The applicators claimed they did not spray within a half mile of the hives, yet you see bees piled up dead, and you know many more died in the field. The second problem is that the applicators will often lie about where they actually sprayed and where they didn't. The third is actually the government's problem (IF the programs are effectual...). Any area that doesn't get coverage (around the beehives, or around organic farms for example) can be a vector to reintroduce the pest or disease right back to the sprayed areas. >I quickly hit a wall when that person said, 'When >it comes to the health of honey bees versus the health of humans (to control >West Nile virus, which lives in mosquitoes), we'll choose human health every >time.' You'd better believe they are doing more damage to wild pollinators than to honeybees. When it comes to pollinators it is not a question of either/or. People can die just as surely of starvation as they do of disease. And we have GOT to pound that into some thick heads, to be sure. I am convinced that we are closer to famine that we can conceive, and that it will happen in the US, unless we do some serious changing. All you have to do is extrapolate the trends... The spray programs CAN protect the bees, AND protect humans, IF they have a WILL TO. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 10:29:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley <"thomremove thisbrad"@VISI.NET> Subject: Re: AHB OR AFB-EFB OR PESTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Mitchell wrote: > > > < obey/enforce the law.>> > > In discussions I had a month ago with a Massachusetts Pesticide Board > spokesperson concerning the possiblity of spraying malathion to control > mosquitoes later this year, I quickly hit a wall when that person said, 'When > it comes to the health of honey bees versus the health of humans (to control > West Nile virus, which lives in mosquitoes), we'll choose human health every > time.' > I found it hard to argue with that. Of course, you can't argue with that statement. But the statement has no context to the argument. It is the same as justifying a raise in the cigarette tax because it's to protect the children. Anyone against this tax is anti-children. "Beekeepers choose the health of humans over the health of bees as well.", is the correct response to that argument but you really can have your cake and eat it too. Our point is that the rest of the U.S. follows the law and applies pesticides as they are supposed or faces court. The governments simply do what the hell they want and says, it's for the children or it's for all our benefit. ALL THEY NEEDED TO DO LAST OCTOBER WAS SPRAY 3 HOURS LATER IN THE DAY. Or wait 2 weeks for the first frost to kill to mosquitos. The reason they do not comply is because it is not convenient for them. They did not want to pay for pilots that could fly at dusk. In this area Air Force Reserve pilots were available at no cost. That they were not licensed to fly at night was of no consequence. They simply changed the flying time to the middle of the afternoon. They couldn't spray on the days bees couldn't fly as that would reduce the effectiveness of the chemical. So, they ensured a very good bee kill by spraying during prime flight days in the middle of an excellent fall goldenrod and aster flow. Thanks I needed to vent. Now in the order I have personal been affected. 1) Pesticides 2) Bears 3) Varroa 4) Tracheal ( I could not treat some hives while recovering from major surgery) Thom ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 12:04:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vivian Donahue Subject: Arthritis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" This isn't a personal story, but certainly one I know for a fact. The person who helped me get started in beekeeping 25 years ago in Arkansas had been retired early from his work because of a large inoperable arthritic knot on his spine. Bored, he got into beekeeping to help a friend during friends busy honey flow season. By the 3rd year of beekeeping this man who had been half bent over because of the knot (I saw the pictures of his retirement) could stand up straight and only hurt during the cold and wet seasons. He told me that drs couldn't believe the shrinkage of his arthritic knot. A dr friend of mine at the time told me that when he was a young man in med school in the early twenties, bee venom therapy was "the" treatment for arthritis. fwiw, Vivian ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 18:52:41 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: SV: What's on a Sticky Board In-Reply-To: <20000416124246.XXAW19442.fepB.post.tele.dk@SEGATE.SUNET.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology [mailto:BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU]På vegne af John Mitchell Sendt: 16. april 2000 13:04 Til: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Emne: Re: What's on a Sticky Board In a message dated 4/15/00 11:47:09 AM, allend@INTERNODE.NET writes: Good suggestion for beekeeping classes. I'd travel a ways to learn how to use the screen insert and the gunk that falls underneath it to tell me what's going on, I think the use of sticky board are misunderstood. Special when it comes to diagnostic! Sticky board can be used to diagnostic the attach of Varroamites, but you have to let it in for no more than three days, otherwise you will get all the garbage too, that the bees normally carry out. Remember you have taken that job away from the bees :-) When you diagnostic for varroa then use oxalic acid to force the dropdown of mites. visit my web on the following page to read more about using oxalic acid in the fight of varroa. http://apimo.dk/Varroa_report/varro-report.htm best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://apimo.dk (USA) http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo (Denmark) apimo@post4.tele.dk Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 16:36:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jim & Sue Subject: Arthritis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, For anyone wondering about the value of bee venom for Arthritis read about Charles Mraz. He had big problems with it as a younger man, and had remarkable results using it to cure his condition! Jim Maus ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 18:33:29 -0400 Reply-To: Honeybees@inorbit.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: MA Pesticides In-Reply-To: <200004161243.IAA07022@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi John, Could You send Me the names and phone numbers to contact those people? Maybe if enough beekeepers contact them and demand they follow the law We won't have to use balloons, they can spray at night as the law states. Thanks, Garry Libby Attleboro ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 02:35:09 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Durk Ellison Subject: Re: Arthritis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim & Sue" To: Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 12:36 AM Subject: Arthritis > Hi All, > For anyone wondering about the value of bee venom for Arthritis read > about Charles Mraz. He had big problems with it as a younger man, and had > remarkable results > using it to cure his condition! > Jim Maus Also see The Apitherapy Reference Data Base http://www.saunalahti.fi/~apither/ Durk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 19:37:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: Counting varroas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am looking for the best way to count as accurately as possible varroas on sticky boards without counting each one individually. In the context of a breeding program aimed at developping the natural ability of the bee to coexist with varroa, I will have to count the mites on around 300 sticky board twice a year. I know one can use a grid and count only a limited number of sections and then multiply. Has anyone done some stats on how many section have to be counted to obtain a reasonable precision? I have noticed personnally that most of the time the mites are not evenly spread over the surface of the board. This makes it more complicated! Jean-Pierre Chapleau queen breeder 1282, rang 8 Saint-Adrien, Québec J0A 1C0 (819) 828-3396, fax: (819) 828-0357 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:54:39 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Re: Arthritis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you are using Bee Venom Therapy for your arthritis (or what ails you), it's advisable to include a large quantity of Vitamin C into your regime (2000mg daily). That allows the body's adrenal glands to produce their own Cortisol. Consider it a personal perscription of a superior solution to the manmade product of a similar name, Cortisone. Jean-Francois Lariviere BeeHealthy Farms New York NY 10025 http://www.beehealthyfarms.com << My arthitis does not go away, but it does get worse when I'm not handling bees, and better when I am. I've got one especially painful knuckle, and I sometimes grab a bee to get her to sting on that one. It helps, but does not cure. >> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:50:59 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Re: Sudden allergic reaction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with this comment with an addition. When you compare the other body parts to your head, you'll notice that the knee is a "meatier" place than the skull. When swelling does occur, there is no other place for it to go but out. Whereas at your knee, the leg can absorb some of the swelling and it doesn't show. Jean-Francois Lariviere BeeHealthy Farms New York NY 10025 http://www.beehealthyfarms.com << -Not a bit unusual; no systemic reaction, just a greater local one. I could probably number stings in five figures, maybe more, and the same thing would happen to me. The area around your eyes, nose, & lips are extremely sensitive >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:14:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael Bassett Subject: Re: MA Pesticides On Sun, 16 Apr 2000 18:33:29 -0400, Garry Libby wrote: >Hi John, > > Could You send Me the names and phone numbers to contact those >people? >Thanks, >Garry Libby >Attleboro you can find names etc at the following http://www.massgrown.org/ I've found that some of the e:mail mailboxes don't work. I asked their plans while taking the section 18 course for mite check and they didn't bring up the fogging at all but did say they are certifying people to drive around and spray into road side drains. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:26:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael Bassett Subject: Re: AHB OR AFB-EFB OR PESTS On Sun, 16 Apr 2000 07:59:37 EDT, John Mitchell wrote: > In discussions I had a month ago with a Massachusetts Pesticide Board >spokesperson concerning the possiblity of spraying malathion to control >mosquitoes later this year, I quickly hit a wall when that person said, 'When >it comes to the health of honey bees versus the health of humans (to control >West Nile virus, which lives in mosquitoes), we'll choose human health every >time.' Maybe taking a different approach would work. I don't spray Malathion but for instance does the label have a re-entrace time or time you can't eat the food sprayed with the chemical. What I'm getting at is which is more harmful to the humans, getting sprayed and eating a chemical that the label says is harmful because the state elects to spray during the day instead of at night when less people are out side. Maybe getting the local farmers going because if the label says they can't sell their crops for x # of days after spraying and letting them know some how this information will get in the newspaper. I know when Massachusetts sprayed for Gypsy moths years ago they sprayed kids waiting for the school bus and they all ended up in the hospital and that curtailed the spraing when it hit the media. If the direct approaches don't work got to go the back door mike ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 21:48:08 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HarrisonRW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: breeding for Varroa tolerance (or resistance) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 04/14/2000 5:46:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jjr22@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU writes: > > Breeding for this sort of tolerance of Varroa mites is a reality (see > Erickson et al. in American Bee Journal -Dec 1999 931-933 and ABJ 1998, > 138:828-832; maybe try the ARS-bee lab (Tucson) website > http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov ). Since 1994, they have used selective > breeding to develop a population of colonies that have consistently low > levels of infestation. They go on to say that this sort of breeding will > be an integral part of the Integrated Pest Mangaement (IPM) program they > are developing. I had the opportunity to spend a few days at the bee lab > in Tucson and work a day with the commercial beekeeper who is also an > author on the papers. I was very impressed by the their work, to the point > that I do not believe Varroa mites will be much of a problem in the long run. > > I just got back a few hours ago from a meeting in Massachusetts where Dr. Eirckson was one of the speakers. He in his presentation he spoke of selective breeding and said that it is not hard to do. You can wind up with an acceptable mite level of 12-16 mites per 100 bees. But he also did mention that a mite level of more than 4-5 mites per 100 will affect honey production somewhat. About the meeting. It was a celebration of the 100 Anniversary of the Worcester County Beekeeper Association. My hats off to the all the people in Massachusetts who put the program together. YOU ALL DID A FANTASTIC JOB!!!!!!! It was well worth the three hour ride to the meeting and I looking forward to next years meeting. Best Regards, Ralph Harrison Secretary, Western CT Beekeepers Association Milford, CT ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 08:53:35 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Recombine? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I caught a large swarm and a few days, maybe a week, later I caught a cast from the same hive. Now I have 2 weakened hives and the cast box. Can I put them back together? I already have 5 hives and do not want to increase. I sold one swarm but I would rather have stronger hives to produce more honey. What to do? Richard Kentucky Getting ready for Derby Day ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:44:56 -0400 Reply-To: "Keith B. Forsyth" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Keith B. Forsyth" Subject: Re: Counting varroas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jean-Pierre: You may wish to contact Diana Sammataro at Pennsylvania State, Acarapis@psu.edu . I believe she did some work recently in this area. Keith Grimsby, Ontario ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:10:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C.R. Crowell" Subject: Re: Small Hive Beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are there any reports on the progress of this beetle other than in Florida and parts of the Carolina's? I opted to stay with apistan for mite control (where it is still working for me) instead of comophos, but every time I see any kind of small black beetle (say, on a neighbor's hat) I get nervous. /C.Crowell - Central New Jersey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:36:09 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: MA Pesticides MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gary, Here's the phones. I spoke to John Kenny at the Mass. Pesticide Control Board, about possible Malathion spraying. MA pesticide control board 617.727.3020 MA Dept. of Public Health 617.624.6000 Mary Tobin, Dept. of Public Health 617.683.6398 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:38:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Varroa in NZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Referring now to Mark Spagnolo's post I do not understand his statement that >if beeeding is the answer to controlling mites, a mite free environment is >crucial. I would have thought the opposite would be true. >Chris Slade I think there is a critical need for a mite free environment to provide us a fail-safe in the event we cannot control the mites. If we run out of controls for the multiple pests that we are now seeing in our hives (mites, beetles, AFB) and suffer a national or even global collapse of honeybee populations it would be nice to have a population to recover from. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:55:49 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: breeding for Varroa tolerance (or resistance) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was very impressed by the their work, to the point > > that I do not believe Varroa mites will be much of a problem in the long > run I just got back a few hours ago from a meeting in Massachusetts where Dr. > Eirckson was one of the speakers. He in his presentation he spoke of > selective breeding and said that it is not hard to do. You can wind up with > an acceptable mite level of 12-16 mites per 100 bees. But he also did mention > that a mite level of more than 4-5 mites per 100 will affect honey production > somewhat. >Hello Ralph, Glad you are impressed! I am not! If Dr. Erickson thinks 12 to 16 mites per 100 bees is acceptable i think he better go back to the drawing board. When did he say the figure was acceptable? Comming out of winter? It might be at the end of summer the day before you treat. i think if thats the best proff of resistant bees he can come up with he would have made better use of his time finding us another chemical to alternate with Apistan so we wouldn't have had to get a section 18 to save thousands of hives of bees in U.S.. Research on all possible solutions is important but in my opinion the proof that resistant bees are the answer is not there for me yet. I think Dr. Erickson needs to take another look at Dee lusbys work on cell size. He has been to her bee farm before. She has made better progress with varroa naturally than he has IN MY OPINION! Not afraid to speak up! Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:23:19 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Farrington/Bequia Canvas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Everybody; Dave Green, the Pollinator, writes with great eloquence and heated passion about the threat improper pesticide use poses to honeybees. But I believe there is a paradox here - the very growers who contact Mr. Green for pollination sources are the self same people who contact the pesticide applicators for pest control. Are the growers then not their own worst enemy? By the way, I do not mean to imply that Dave Green writes exclusively about pesticide misuse - his posts are many and varied and always eloquent, no matter what the topic. Bob in Bequia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:36:37 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Huestis Subject: reversing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI All, I would like to know if anyone on the list has noticed that about = 60% of queens tend to move down to the lower brood chamber and don't = need reversing. Has anyone had similar results? Can someone recommend = an approximate date to reverse in northern NY? Maple pollen is coming = in really well right now and most hives are under going stimulate = feeding since march 1st. Any help would bee appreciated. Thanks. Clayton Huestis Crown Point=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:31:21 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: reversing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/17/00 3:49:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, buzzybee@CAPITAL.NET writes: > Can someone recommend = > an approximate date to reverse in northern NY? The bees I keep cannot read the calender so I reverse when the bottom box has no brood. Many folks around here claim that dandylions are a good indicator . I think other factors enter in to it such as stimulative feeding. In cool weather don't split the brood nest up. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:45:40 +1200 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: NZ varroa update In-Reply-To: <199910221236.IAA01260@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT For anyone interested in keeping up with the varroa outbreak in NZ, the MAF page listed below is being kept pretty well up to date: http://www.maf.govt.nz/MAFnet/index/Varroa.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:01:26 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Varroa in NZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Lipscomb, Al" wrote: > > I think there is a critical need for a mite free environment to provide us a > fail-safe in the event we cannot control the mites. If we run out of controls > for the multiple pests that we are now seeing in our hives (mites, beetles, > AFB) and suffer a national or even global collapse of honeybee populations it > would be nice to have a population to recover from. An interesting concept, but if we "run out of controls" for our current population of bees, what good would a similar population be. This reserve population will have already proven itself fataly suceptible and would be pretty much useless for a comeback. I would appreciate a bit more on the logic behind this idea. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:39:32 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Mitchell wrote: > < about ten > years ago, supposedly to avoid possible gov't. controls.>> > > I'd like to hear from some Arizona beekeepers why they thought this was a > good idea. John M., in general, I agree with your post. IMHO, and not speaking for the gov't., my impression was that a goup of Arizona beekeepers felt that ANY research done by the state or USDA on AHB would ultimately reflect badly on the public's view of bees, and would lead to more restrictions and quarantines on their industry. Remember, this was soon after the debacle in Texas, where beeyards were "depopulated" because of the dreaded Acarine mite. So, .... they felt that by removing the arms of gov't. which could turn against or restrict them, they could buy enough time to work out the problems themselves. As a partial result, we have had loads of highly africanized bees moved about at will, and most of the hobbyist beekeepers in Tucson have given up. These are my opinions. I, too, would like to hear from some Arizona beekeepers who can discuss this calmly. - John Edwards, Tucson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:47:53 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: reversing In-Reply-To: <200004171949.PAA19610@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I would like to know if anyone on the list has noticed that about = > 60% of queens tend to move down to the lower brood chamber and don't = > need reversing. Has anyone had similar results? Yes, with good feed and good bees, the queens will usually go down within a week of when one might be reversing. All, considered with the extra, labour and risks and losses associated with reversing, we have stopped doing it and emphasised good beekeeping and feeding instead. If one scrapes the top and bottom bars too much and has too much bee space between the boxes (I'll bet that 75% of the people on the list do), the queens are inhibited from going down by the gap. Even the 'proper' bee space will discourage them. If you have some ladder comb, or the frames stuck together a bit, your queens will go down without need to reverse. > Can someone recommend > an approximate date to reverse in northern NY? Maple pollen is coming = > in really well right now and most hives are under going stimulate > feeding since march 1st. Reversing can be done early with strong hives (10 or more full frames of bees with full frames of brood top & bottom) and must be avoided until after frosty nights for weaker ones. My advice: don't bother unless you are sure you know. It does not do a whole lot of good, and can do lots of damage. allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:54:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: News on AHB's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Elliott wrote: > I'll be encouraged when they show a beekeeper with AHB crawling over his bare > hands. Why is the selection of AHB for mild temperament being ignored? At least > it is not being discussed. There is at least one beekeeper in S. Arizona working on this. He has no interest in computers, even if he had the time. His operation is partially africanized, and he has had success in developing Varroa resistance in his breeding stock. What's happening in S. Texas ???????? - John Edwards, USDA-ARS, Tucson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:23:59 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines - prob. new info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit darrells wrote: > > Murray McGregor Wrote > > > > at, or close to, their limiting latitudes in North America. > > Will Amarillo, > Albuqueque, Flagstaff and Bakersfield never get AHB? > Well, as of April, 1997, downtown Flagstaff had the AHB (swarm, determined by me, using 25-character Daly morphometrics). since then, several swarms from Flagstaff suburbs have shown up positive for AHB. There is basically only one beekeeper there, well known to us and very observant, and he picked up the swarms to send to us. I am sure he is not the source of the AHB. If you check yer map, you'll see two canyons (Sycamore and Oak Creek) winding up from the Phoenix area to within twenty miles of this beautiful city at 7000 foot elevation, where the winter cold temp. record is 47 degrees (F.) below zero. ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards "Feral Bee Tracker and AHB Identifier" Carl Hayden Bee Research Center http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:59:28 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murray McGregor wrote: > You possibly do not need to look any further than a natural, possibly > insignificant to us, factor being at work here which means they may be > at, or close to, their limiting latitudes in North America. > I agree, but you need to correspond with people in the central valley of California and up into Oregon, where it is much warmer than Scotland (or Oklahoma, or Colorado, or Tennessee) in the winter because of the Japanese current, and where a great number of nervous people live. ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona http://198.22.133.109/ http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:38:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Robert J. Bassett" Subject: Re: Arthritis Comments: cc: benwagg@concentric.net, bwaggoner@autoprodinc.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Friends, I got back into keeping bees, one year ago, primarily for use in Apitherapy. I have a good friend with MS and the stings have helped him quite a bit. As for Arthritis treatment, I have been using the stings on myself and have seen a reduction in some of the knots on my fingers. We put the bees on orange blossom for the last six weeks and the friend who owns the property is an Arthritis sufferer. He has been diagnosed with Degenerative Arthritis and has a good deal of pain in his hands and back. He asked us to give him some stings to see if it would help his situation. He took one sting, which I removed quickly, in order to check for an allergic reaction. His first actual treatment was on his thumb (2 stings). He told us he had immediate relief which lasted for about 2 days. We increased it to 4 stings the following week. He had such good results that he asked for a treatment on his back, near the tail bone. We put 4 stings there and increased it to 14 stings on that spot by the end of 6 weeks. He has been able to perform physical tasks at a tremendously increased rate since he started the treatments. His wife told us that he is like a different person now. The physical tasks he has been doing would have had him in bed for three days 2 months prior to the Apitherapy. I have another beekeeper friend who uses stings for Osteo Arthritis and he swears by it. He uses the stings every time he has a little pain. His Mother has had both knees replaced. He has had no surgery. I do not work in the medical field, so I am not able adequately explain the mechanism which causes the stings to work, but it is hard for me to argue with results I have personally witnessed. I believe it could be as simple as this. The stings surely cause the body's immune system to wake up and take notice. I know my immune system is working because I can take as many as 15 stings in one finger with very little reaction. This was not the case when I first started. I have had a spell where I did not get stung for 4 weeks and I had a bit of a reaction when getting back into a regular weekly stinging program. The body (immune system) goes to work on the Arthritis. I believe the stings have a much broader benefit, than just a treatment option for Arthritis, but that is a topic for another discussion. Bob Bassett ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:05:29 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Lipscomb, Al" wrote: > A good example would be a case where a > neighbor filed a complaint with city hall about a hive I had that was > visible from the street. The city inspector came out and I explained that > the bees were gentle and that they had been inspected by the state. His > answer was that all seemed to be in order but if he received another > complaint he would write me up for a "nascence" and the bees would have to > go. I believe you have just described the situation in Pima County, which surrounds Tucson, Arizona. No stinging was necessary, only a neighbor's complaint. ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician Tucson, Arizona 85719 http://198.22.133.109/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:14:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Barnett Subject: Re: Whats on a sticky board Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu > Subject: Whats on a sticky board > Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 22:34:33 +0100 > >Allen Dick writes as follows: > >I have not been able to identify many of the translucent and organic >shaped things on the floor, and would love to have some input into what all >I am looking at. A hobby beekeeper, but well trained in scientific method (Retired physician), I will give this a try although I have spent only 8 weeks watching counts every 3 days on two colonies with 1/8 inch hardware cloth screened bottoms. I hope this helps someone, and myself! To fabricate a sticky board, I choose to coat a piece of poster cardboard, like school children use, with a heavy coat of mineral oil, both sides after placing parallel lines (6) equidistant with a heavy pencil (making a crude grid), length wise; to make possible counting mites in a smaller area than the whole board . I chose to place and leave this setup in for 24 just hours before counting . (To restrict junk to read through...uncapping wax particles, pieces of propolis, wax moth larvae droppings, webbing, etc, etc. After all, the only thing we are interested in is the varroa I.D. What I saw rather quickly: 1. A foreboding number of Varroa, between 15 and 20 inside of each set of spaces, dominately in the four middle sets, gave a total drop of nearly 100 mites in 24 hours. Info from the archives suggested that a spontaneous drop of 15 to as many as near 100 was potentially very serious, but some of this data appeared less than well documented. Now, some observations on the mite appearance: What I thought to be immature mites varied in color from very, very light tan, sometimes almost translucent, to slightly darker tan;, and I I shortly recognized that they frequently were lying on their backs, legs side up, and this 'ventral' side was of concave shape (like a saucer). Further if touched, few moved. If immature, this might be due to their immaturity, they may at this stage be more vulnerable to the oil (if indeed the oil kills mites) or immaturity could simply reduce mobility. Mature mites, some of which seemed a bit larger than the cited 1.0-1.1 mm (no measurement attempted), also sometimes upside down, and if so, also appear dead....until they are touched with a pin or such; then often wiggle, hop or junp, almost like "panic", sometimes righting themselves and moving off less than an inch or occasionally a little more. When right side down the convex dorsal surface especially in sunshine was glistening dark brown to nearly black and without a 2 times magnification (ordinary reading glass) one can scarcely recognise their toe tips sticking out from under one side of her shell. Males are very small (as I understand it) and don't leave the cell where he breeds his mature sisters, except by accident; I could not identify anything I thought might be a male, not did I expect to. My impression was that about 15-20% of the mature mites were not dead and would move placidly off a short distance. Other things observed- two or three small wax moth larvae only one alive, a few balls of wax moth feces, and few very scattered areas where coarser small piles of wax grains from wax moths chewing....one of the the colonies which should have had ten frames of bees and 6-7 of brood consisted of only 6 frames of beess and equivalent brood reduction. This is submitted only to assist identification of stickly board material, and make no reference to significant mite counts, treatment modalities, or other features. I remind you that this spring I have not yet identified mites in colonies, having retreated when the situation described was found. I hope others will describe their sticky board contents. I think at this point it is quite simple to do, and some quantitation of the infection appears to me important. Regards, Bob Barnett Birmingham, Al US 34 Deg. N, 87 Deg E. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:04:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines In-Reply-To: <200004180134.VAA01720@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 >I agree, but you need to correspond with people in the central valley of >California and up into Oregon, where it is much warmer than Scotland (or >Oklahoma, or Colorado, or Tennessee) in the winter because of the Japanese >current, and where a great number of nervous people live. My correspondence with people in Africa and South America does not give any grounds for assumming that temperature is the key factor. In all these environments they are capable of withstanding reasonable periods of cold (even very cold) weather. In some mountain environments where cold is a relatively common occurrence scutellata or AHB are well established, yet not too far away, but beyond a relatively stable boundary, conditions can be much more benign, yet there is no ESTABLISHED scutellata or AHB. Of course these places mentioned need to be wary. It is quite probable that AHB will be found there, either from natural migration (such as Bakersfield that was mentioned) or from migratory beekeeping. The point is that if, in their natural range in Africa, or what must now be considered a natural range in Argentina, beyond which they do not seem to be able to establish long term, is now more or less fixed at or around a certain latitude, and the low to mid 30's appears to be it, then why should North America be different. I have heard the arguments about the relative sophistication of American beekeeping, and the level of winter feeding and care, making the situation special, but that is to underestimate the capabilities and methods of those in South Africa and Argentina, where they are also migratory and must prepare bees properly for winter. People in those countries are your most relevant source of information about what will ultimately happen. I agree that I cannot have ANY definitive opinion of what AHB is going to do in your country, as Scotland is unlikely ever to be affected, but while you were on the subject of maps, one was published in the bee press a few years back (one of the american journals, I forget which) which illustrated the spread of AHB in the Americas, and there was another showing the range of scutellata. In the south the latitudes were very similar. Climate must be a secondary factor as the limit is not a straight latitude line, but something akin to seasonality must be at work in this case. We may never know exactly what it is. Incidentally, Scotland is a country with a relatively mild damp maritime climate, a bit like your western seaboard from Northern Oregon up into British Columbia. We NEVER get cold approaching the horrendous 70+ degrees of frost you mention for Arizona, but then summer heat over 80 degrees is also rare. At our latitudes we should be a lot colder in winter were it not for the Gulf Stream (North Atlantic Drift). In our home area we have only had lying snow for 5 mornings all winter this year (it is usually more). A lot like your mention of the affect of the Japanese current in your own country. Throwing in the latitude factor as a likely limiting factor was not something I arrived at independently (a large amount of correspondence with beekeepers both in Africa and North America took place at the time), nor is it meant in any way to be some kind of definitive pronouncement on the issue. It is meant more as a discussion issue than anything else, but it may also indicate that the scare stories of the whole of North America being swamped by AHB are not actually the likely outcome. Despite the migratory beekeeping, and your relative sophistication of management, the spread has slowed dramatically since its arrival in the southern states. The question you need to answer is why. Is it due to your levels of surveillance. (Do you really think you are catching almost all such swarms?) OR, is the natural, as yet unknown, limiting factor starting to kick in and arrest their rapid progress north. I guess that in 10 years the line will be relatively stable with seasonal incursions across it. Only then will you know. -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:43:01 -0500 Reply-To: sauer@mwci.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: sauer@MWCI.NET Subject: Re: reversing In-Reply-To: <10FA5ED1C2BAD211BF4E00A0C92ABF44326924@dwci.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that Taylor mentioned in his Bee Culture column a couple of issues back that if you leave the bridge comb intact between the boxes, the queen will make her own way back to the bottom box and you won't need to reverse. I'm trying it now and it seems to be working with most of my hives; the cluster has moved lower and the bees are packing away my feed in the upper half of the top brood box. chris Chris and Janet Sauer Colesburg Apiaries www.greathoney.com (319) 856-2015 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:14:59 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Whats on a sticky board MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A fine posting! My compliments! I test only 24 hours using just one strip of Apistan; and I test on March 1st and again on July 1st; but I treat (without testing) from October 1st to Thanksgiving to make use of the time of little or no brood where mites are developed. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:03:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: reversing:better option Hello all, Many comments have been made about reversing in recent posts. I would like to share the method i use and most large operators in Missouri use. We feel the extra work is worth the extra effort. First of April (time can vary but close guess)we take each hive completely apart. We carry extra bottoms and tops and a few extra hive bodys to speed process. My hives are on skids but with reversable bottom boards. My skids are the Richard Adee design except they are 3in. wider so i can use telescoping tops if need be. The system i am going to describe is ideal for hobbiests. We run two deeps in Missouri so thats the way i will describe the system. Same system can be used for other combinations with modification. 1. take away mt hive body usually on the bottom and put on truck. Most are clusters are in top box that time of year. If in both boxes set box with least nest in it to side. 2.Put a clean bottom board on skid 3.place box with cluster on clean bottom board. 4.check for disease etc. and put rest of cluster FROM other box in box on bottom board. Extra brood and frames of honey are equalized thru out yard or carried over to other yards. Queenless hives or laying worker hives are shook out and boxes are put on truck. 5. fill feeder if feed needed, medicate and put top back on and go to next colony. 6. reduce entrance back to small opening so queen will lay brood all way down on frames. they are in a single now. Very few hives won't go in one box that time of year. Do the above only on a warm not windy day unless very knowledgeable working bees. 7. we take second hive bodys back to building and cull frames,scrape frame rails and paint boxes if needed. 8.In a week or two we bring the second boxes back and put on. Bees work best moving upward. by doing the above all hives in the yard are the same strength so need supering at same time.Also less robbing. We go completely thru each hive at least once a year. We scrape all rails so working hives is much easier later in season. Each box is painted every two years. Bur comb is removed. we evaluate each queen. Job is easy because of low numbers of bees. We exchange bad tops and bottoms.get rid of queenless and laying worker colonies which are best detected by going into cluster. Need i go on! I have not listed every detail but you should be able to get the general picture of beekeeping for those which make a living from the bees. Happy Beekeeping! Bob Harrison Missouri,U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:40:36 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Justin Schmidt Subject: Sudden allergic reaction In-Reply-To: <38FBACB9.4E13ACE7@tucson.ars.ag.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is a typical reaction of many people to getting stung around the eye area. The swelling has nothing to do with allergy, and does not even appear to be related to "large local" reactions. The fact that the knee did not swell indicates it was not a large local, which should appear to some degree no matter where the sting is located. This type of swelling also appears in some people when stung on the neck. As the report indicates, these reactions are not allergic in nature and can affect anybody, even experienced beekeepers. People who receive regular stings might not experience these swelling reactions, but it is always a gamble. That is the main reason many beekeepers wear veils, even though the bees are very pleasant and highly unlikely to sting -- one just doesn't want the odd accidental sting to the eye area and the subsequent swelling! A more interesting question relates to why the swelling seems to occur only in the eye and neck area. There is no clear answer, just speculation. One explanation is that these areas, being highly vascularized and composed of relatively "soft and supple" skin, are particularly susceptible blood fluids seeping from the veins and capillaries and into the surrounding soft, expandable skin. Note that stings to the scalp, an area of particularly tough, inelastic skin, do not tend to swell; instead they get small hard knots around the area. Just some food for thought! Justin >This is strange. I've been around bees all my life. >I got stung twice. One near my knee and the other near my eyebrow. The knee >sting was typical: ... I don't swell or itch. Then the eyebrow one started up... > >At first I could tell it was just swelling up a bit. Didn't seem like a big >deal. After a while I could actually see the swelling out of that eye. It >was sort of amusing. > As the hours passed it got larger and larger. I went to bed. When I > woke up in the morning I could hardly see >out of that eye, it was practically swollen shut. There were no other >symptoms. No nausea, or dizziness, or anything else at all. > >So what's the deal? Mutant bees?But since I got >stung within a minute in a different location, and didn't have any signs at >all I find that a little strange. > >Bosaiya <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Justin O. Schmidt, PhD USDA-ARS Carl Hayden Bee Research Center 2000 East Allen Rd., Tucson, Arizona 85719, U.S.A. Office: 520 670-6380, extension 109 voicemail) FAX: 520 670-6493 Email: joschmid@u.arizona.edu For Bee & Pollination information on the World Wide Web Please visit us at http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/ <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 06:54:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines - prob. new info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" John Edwards wrote: > ... several swarms from Flagstaff suburbs have shown up positive for AHB... If you check > yer map, you'll see two canyons (Sycamore and Oak Creek) winding up from the Phoenix area > to within twenty miles of this beautiful city at 7000 foot elevation, where the winter cold > temp. record is 47 degrees (F.) below zero. Not being familiar with the area I have to ask what the general climate is like. You mention a record -47dF, but that represents an extreme which may only last for a day and then get back to normal range that could "average" in the mid-30s. What is the typical range in the Flagstaff region? Cool? Cold? Cool from Decmeber, cold in January, witch's nipple on ground hog day and then balmy? For those trying to get a bearing on possible AHB range, this might be more helpful. And as Murray points out, lattitude may be more pertinent. Aaron Morris - thinking in the great tundra of upstate NY where we had 70dF on 4/8 and 16 inches of snow on 4/9!!! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:40:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: scrapes the top and bottom bars In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > If one scrapes the top and bottom bars too much and has too much bee space > > between the boxes, the queens are inhibited from going down by the gap. > > OK, so what's "too much"? Well, if the bees had their way, there would be one big comb from top to bottom with no gaps, especially no gaps with nice neat wide scraped wooden bars above and below them, and especially no gaps without handy ladders for an old lady to go up and down on. > But I do scrape the top bars, mainly because I hate to squish the bees if I > don't scrape. IYHO, am I scraping too much? Wastin' my time? Don't worry, > the few that get squashed are expendable? Well, when we put a box down, sometimes the frames jump up a bit . And, yes, we do squash some bees, but I don't know a beekeeper who does not squash some. The beekeepers who are the most 'holier than thou', and most adamant about bee space and scraping (I used to be one before I saw the light)are the ones that are into their hives every day or every week, scraping, tinkering, undoing the bees' hard work. They need boxes that come apart and go together perfectly, because they open their hives more often than their car trunk. They probably kill a lot more bees than I do, because I don't stack and unstack the boxes more than about four or five times a year. I was writing about "How to Keep Bees and Sell Honey" on s.a.b, the other day and recall that one of the most charming things about the book is the picture inside the cover of some old timer proudly showing his hive full of bees. And you do know it is *full* of bees, because you can see squashed bees sticking out between the supers that are stacked up -- as recall-- to well above his head. It was sad to see the poor bees, but funny and nice too, and one of my favourite pictures, because it was obviously very real, not like that beehive ventilator ad with the pretty lady in the perfect white suit beside a perfect new hive. No, I do not advocate squashing, but it's one way of killing mites that is not illegal anywhere and doesn't discriminate against the poor drones. Frankly I hate killing anything, but I also don't like a sterile over scraped hive, because I know my bees don't like it and it's their home. You've seen our hives, and you've seen our bees. They're on my web pages and it's pretty obvious that some of them have bee space in name only. I like about 3/8" to 1/2" stools on the top bars for the way we are doing things. allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:28:11 PST Reply-To: haymedhon@telus.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Hancock Subject: Varroa's Law Today I discovered my bees have varroa. I have about 50 miles of bush between my operation and the next managed hives, so I'd hoped to stay free a little longer. I've always been highly skeptical of people claiming they got their best honey crop ever the year before they discovered mites. But guess what? Last year was my best crop in 15 years. I thought it had more to do with the 7 inches of rain in June, but the fact remains - last year, biggest crop; this year, mites discovered. So what's the theory on why this is so? Are the mites controlling the weather? Is the weather influencing the spread of mites? Or does the scent of mites in the air cause the hives to panic and bring in the mother of all honey crops? If I'd thought of this earlier I could have been using varroa mite pheromone to get bumper crops for the last 10 years. Or is there a law of physics, similar to Murphy's Law, but called Varroa's Law? Any scientific explanation for this phenomenon would be appreciated. Today driving home,I thought maybe there's a completely different explanation. Maybe only 10% of the beekeepers have this happen and they loudly tell everyone, as I am doing, 'Last year was my best year ever. How was I to know?', while 90% of the beekeepers had three progressively worse years before discovering the mite, and are afraid to admit it, lest someone say, 'What was in your smoker? You should have known.' Also on the way home I was thinking about a message last week from someone in a cabin in a clearing in a bush in Vermont, who was wanting to plant a nectar-producer that deer wouldn't eat. Burdock would work, maybe underseed with a mixture of knapweed and tansey. Hope this helps. ================================================================= Internet service provided by telus.net http://www.telus.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:59:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: AHB: gear and quarantines Comments: To: Murray McGregor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murray McGregor wrote: > Climate must be a secondary factor as the limit is not a straight > latitude line, but something akin to seasonality must be at work in this > case. > > Incidentally, Scotland is a country with a relatively mild damp maritime > climate, a bit like your western seaboard from Northern Oregon up into I didn't realize that - always thought of Scotland as deep snowdrifts in winter. > > OR, is the natural, as yet unknown, limiting factor starting to > kick in and arrest their rapid progress north. I guess that in 10 years > the line will be relatively stable with seasonal incursions across it. > Only then will you know. You make some very good points, and give me pause to reconsider some of my opinions. You obviously have studied this situation. Stay in touch, and I may see you down by the loch someday. _ John Edwards (of McFarland), Tucson, Arizona ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:37:01 +1200 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Sensitivity of Apistan testing... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Can someone point me to the peer-reviewed references that can indicate the sensitivity of testing for varroa using Apistan strips? I'd be interested in other related references concerned with low levels of infection as well - detection methodology, sensitivity, and acceptability within the scientific community. Reply direct or to the list... Nick Wallingford nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Tauranga, New Zealand ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 00:52:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C.R. Crowell" Subject: Re: Laying workers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a hive with laying worker(s). Without realizing what I had I requeened, thinking I had a queen that was only producing drones. The girls killed the queen with her attendants, they never even got out of the queen cage. I requeened again, this time making sure to leave the queen cage where the bees were clustering, and where they would have access to the screened part of the queen cage to pick up her scent. I fear she is gone too - haven't checked because the weather has been too cold and wet (Central NJ). Having read up a little more about this, I think I missed the fact that the drone brood was widely scattered, not neatly clustered as would be the case with an unfertile queen. I'm planning to check the hive on the next warmish day, and if the queen is indeed history, remove the boxes about 30 yards away from the original site. Empty the frames from the first brood super, brush out any bees in there, and return the empty box to the original hive location. Then, rebuild the box first using a four frame nuc with a new queen that was started 2 weeks ago and has capped brood, making up the balance of the hive with the original frames once they have been brushed free of bees. My reading tells me that any laying workers are unlikely to make it back to the hive, and the queenright population of the nuc will dominate the returning foragers, and things will proceed normally. I'm hoping the bees are on the same page I am here. In my reading I didn't find anything about the addition of frames with fresh eggs - would this hive raise their own queen? /C.Crowell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:47:49 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Moye Subject: Re: Laying worker Comments: cc: Curtiscrow@WORLDNET.ATT.NET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I read in some beekeeping text (I don't remember the specific text) that one treatment for laying workers that sometimes works is to move a couple of hundred feet from the hive and brush all bees off of all frames and hive parts onto the ground. Supposedly the laying worker almost never finds her way back to the hive. I assume that she has never been a forager and probably evolved from a nurse bee. Maybe that's why she doesn't know where the hive is located. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 08:17:11 -0400 Reply-To: Honeybees@inorbit.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: scrapes the top and bottom bars In-Reply-To: <200004190000.UAA11263@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Everyone, Allen Dick Wrote: "......Well, if the bees had their way, there would be one big comb from top to bottom with no gaps, especially no gaps with nice neat wide scraped wooden bars above and below them, and especially no gaps without handy ladders for an old lady to go up and down on.".......... I've only kept bees for five years so don't know anything about Jumbo Dadant Hives. Reading about them they seem like they would be easier to work and most beekeepers would only need one box for a brood chamber. Brother Adam used these at Buckfast Abbey. Why did they get discontinued? Thanks, Garry Libby Attleboro, Massachusetts, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:22:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Arthritis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim & Sue wrote: > For anyone wondering about the value of bee venom for Arthritis read > about Charles Mraz. We had Charlie as a speaker at the annual Maine State Beekeepers meeting I attended in my second year of beekeeping. I had wondered why my arthritis was less a problem in the summers and terrible in the winters and he helped me connect the dots. Immediately after the meeting, I got some bees and has them sting me as he showed. I set up a schedule, also as he directed. Arthiritis has not been a problem since. I owe him a great deal. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:23:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Varroa's Law Comments: To: haymedhon@telus.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted Hancock wrote: > Last year was my best crop in 15 years. There have been various guesses about strong hives and Varroa and the best I have seen is that the strong hives get some of that honey by robbing a varroa infested hive. This leads to a sudden collapse of the strong hive, mostly becasue of high varroa and viruses. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:34:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: glbarbor@JUNO.COM Subject: Re: Laying workers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've tried all sorts of ways to correct drone laying workers and/or queen with a lot of labor and little success, except merging with a queenright colony or nuc. You said you have a queenright nuc, so just sit it on top of the dronelayer hive with newspaper between and allow them to merge. Jerry in Pa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:42:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Varroa in NZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >An interesting concept, but if we "run out of controls" for our current >population of bees, what good would a similar population be. This reserve >population will have already proven itself fataly suceptible and would be pretty >much useless for a comeback. I would appreciate a bit more on the logic behind >this idea. >Tom My thoughts are that if the European Honey Bees were to die out in North America then after a short period of time the major pests would die out as well (hoping they do not find new hosts). At which point a clean population could be reintroduced. This reintroduction would be at best a very limited second chance. The same pests would be waiting for a chance to renew their attack as soon as someone brought them in a second time. With so much of our food supply depending on bees one should always have a backup. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:15:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Laying workers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >I've tried all sorts of ways to correct drone laying workers and/or queen >with a lot of labor and little success, except merging with a queenright >colony or nuc. You said you have a queenright nuc, so just sit it on top >of the dronelayer hive with newspaper between and allow them to merge. >Jerry in Pa One method I have had a good deal of luck with in rehabilitating a problem hive is to introduce frames of brood to the problem hive. I put in frames of both eggs as well as capped brood. This should help increase the number of young bees in the hive as well as introduce brood pheromone (If the bees are inclined they may start pulling queen cells from the introduced frames). Once a number of the capped cells have emerged the introduction of a queen may have a better chance. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:54:20 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: AHB-Climate and Latitude (was:gear and quarantines) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > John Edwards wrote: > > ... several swarms from Flagstaff suburbs have shown up positive for > AHB... > Not being familiar with the area I have to ask what the general climate is > like. You mention a record -47dF, but that represents an extreme which may > only last for a day and then get back to normal range that could "average" > in the mid-30s. What is the typical range in the Flagstaff region? Well, since you asked - here is a link to NOAA Climatologies pages. Other states can be accessed from this site, also, at least by just changing the state name in the address. From this one for Arizona, click on Flagstaff for a look at the graphs. BTW, Flag. is at the base of a 12,000 foot extinct volcano, and is mostly open ponderosa pine forest w/some oaks. It stays pretty cool there in the winter. People usually are surprised at the range of temps within Arizona. After looking at the page, I would be interested to learn which areas around the states and world are similar. http://www.cdc.noaa.gov/~cas/Climo/polys/arizona.html ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards "Feral Bee Tracker and AHB Identifier" Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona 85719 http://198.22.133.109/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2094 21:11:10 -0700 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: AHB and quarantines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Edwards states the Arizona situation about right. As I recall there was also some bad blood between a small group of beekeepers and the state government. There was also a perception that research would be ten to 20 years in developing anything of substantial benefit to the bee industry which has proven to be about right. Though knowledge has indeed been enhanced. While I don't blame beekeepers for not wanting government restrictions and quarantines, it is usually a reaction built on preconceptions due to a lack of knowledge of the process and purpose of quarantines. Some beekeepers forget that they are not the only ones in the ag community or public with interests that need negotiation or placating. Unfortunately, all too often there isn't anyone around with the expertise to do a good risk analysis process and cost impact calculation at the genesis of a problem. Such was the case in Texas. Actual impact is about twice what was estimated by the local "expert". Also, everyone appears to stand back at these times to let others take the leadership role knowing that they will be the object of a lot of vitriol in the process. A large amount of lack of communication always exists during these episodes, further complicating the issues and the understanding of them. Unfortunately also, beekeepers rarely work out the problems themselves because they don't have the expertise and many find it hard to work with each other and with government. Not being regular participants in the government process makes it difficult for them to come up to speed in time for meaningful participation while the process is happening. Often the process is complete before they are aware of the problem. But all that I've said is also true of many other interest groups in the agriculture, water, and environment arenas. James C. Bach jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:56:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Ralston Subject: Re: reversing In-Reply-To: <200004171948.PAA19598@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Huestis asked: > I would like to know if anyone on the list has noticed that about > 60% of queens tend to move down to the lower brood chamber and don't > need reversing. Has anyone had similar results? I don't know about 60%, but I do know that in my hive, the queen has shown a strong tendancy to favor the bottom brood chamber. In fact, I've never seen any evidence of her being in the top brood chamber (no eggs, no brood). James Ralston Pennsylvania, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:50:11 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: reversing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Huestis asked: > > > I would like to know if anyone on the list has noticed that about > > 60% of queens tend to move down to the lower brood chamber and don't > > need reversing. Has anyone had similar results? It would appear that some variable is at work here, it looks like climate (comments?). We have seen very different responses to this subject. In our mild coastal Alaskan climate the queen will readily work up into two or three brood boxes and just as readily move down as conditions decree. Indeed, a simple method (which I have not tried personally) is to install packages in the top of a stack of four full depth boxes in the spring. By fall the queen is normally in the bottom brood chamber and the top is filled with honey. There are other factors involved, but the point is that in this climate the queen moves down readily. I have not had enough success with wintering to speak to the movement of a wintered cluster in the spring, but except in late fall there is no problem with the queen (or colony) being willing to move down. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:18:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: AHB-Climate and Latitude (was:gear and quarantines) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi John, http://www.cdc.noaa.gov/~cas/Climo/polys/arizona.html Very interesting site! BEE-Lers will do well to bookmark it. It appears Flagstaff in not that much different that the tundra north of Albany, NY. I hope Murry's point about latitude being a limiting factor holds water. It will be interesting to see how the AHB migration plays out. Sincerely, Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:49:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: SABA Seminar, May 13, 2000. Saratoga Springs, NY. Comments: To: "NYS-BEES@listserv.albany.edu" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" SABA's Year 2000 Beekeeping Seminar To inaugurate the new millenium, the Southern Adirondack Beekeepers' Association ("SABA") is honored to host a seminar led by three of the most important leaders working to meet today's challenges in beekeeping. On May 13th from 9:00AM to 4:30PM, at the Holiday Inn in Saratoga Springs, NY, Sue Cobey, Dr. Medhat Nasr and Dr. Hachiro Shimanuki will give presentations on small-scale queen production, Terramycin resistant American Foulbrood, the small hive beetle, varroa tolerant Russian queens, integrated pest management, and the importance of and selection for hygienic behavior. Sue Cobey has been Staff Apiarist at Ohio State University since 1990. In the '80s she was co-owner of Vaca Valley Apiaries, which developed the New World Carniolan honeybee strain. She is recognized as an expert at selecting and maintaining improved strains of honeybees. Her New World Carniolans are resistant to tracheal mites and she is now selecting for hygienic behavior. Dr. Nasr is a Professor of Biology at Guelph University in Ontario, Canada. He has been studying the efficacy of using non-chemical ways to control varroa mites. These techniques require the beekeeper to understand the mites' life cycle and behavior, and manipulate the hives in some new ways. Dr. Shimanuki, Head Researcher at the USDA Beltsville MD bee labs, has been researching bees and treatments for bee pests and diseases there for 35 years. He is now the Agricultural Research Service Technical Liaison for the beekeeping industry. Dr. Shimanuki will speak on a variety of subjects. Regardless of whether you have one hive or one thousand, this seminar will be an unparalleled opportunity to hear the most current developments in the challenges facing beekeepers, honeybees, and the beekeeping industry. SPACE IS LIMITED and the opportunity to attend should not be forgone! Early registration starts immediately, and ends May 3. Those wishing to attend should complete and return the enclosed form. Registration fee includes snack, lunch and beverages. For more registration forms or additional information, please contact: Fred Ludewig, 518.885.9032; f.ludewig@gte.net Lloyd Spear, 518.370.4989; lloydspear@email.msn.com Note: On May 13, check-in begins at 8:00 AM, and the program will start PROMPTLY at 9:00. Lodging is available at many nearby hotels and motels, including Holiday Inn in Saratoga ($99/Qu.Rm.) and Best Western in Clifton Park ($59/Qu.Rm.). SABA has reserved a block of rooms at Best Western (518.371.1811) and to receive the special rate there, make your reservation before May 3, and make sure to say you're with SABA. Best Western is an easy 15 minute drive from the seminar site. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:05:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: SABA Seminar, May 13, 2000. Saratoga Springs, NY. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron, I've looked over your press release and, unless I missed it, you've not mentioned what the cost of the seminar is and what discounts are available for early registration. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:34:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: SABA Seminar, May 13, 2000. Saratoga Springs, NY. Comments: To: "NYS-BEES@listserv.albany.edu" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > ... you've not mentioned what the cost of the seminar is and what discounts are available > for early registration. Oops, sorry. Early registration fee is $35, $25 for spouse or guest. Late registration adds $15 to each registration. Early registrations are STRONGLY encouraged. Aaron Morris - thinking EARLY REGISTRATION! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:19:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: re breeding for varroa tolerance (or resistance) Hello All, Due to the fact i received a huge amount of direct email supporting my displeasure with Dr. Ericksons : breeding for this sort of tolerance of varroa mites is a reality. I am going to ask the Tucson bee lab a question so we can all hear their response. FACT: In mid April those varroa resistant hives Dr. Erickson is talking about had strips for varroa mites in. FACT: In mid April those trachael mite resistant hives had paddies for trachael mites. Last week on Bee-L we talked about if testing for a varroa resistant strain of bees should be done in a country where varroa wasn't present. I wonder how many of bee-l beekeepers would put a lot of faith in results from hives using strips and paddies. To Tucson bee lab: You know i speak the truth and can prove it. To save face only tell us why you feel those paddies and strips are neccessary to proving your theory. I know you are not in the honey crop business so the only reason i can see is for survival of the colony. NOT AFRAID TO SPEAK UP! Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 17:32:28 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: re breeding for varroa tolerance (or resistance) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 4/20/00 4:59:54 PM, busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM writes: << To Tucson bee lab: You know i speak the truth and can prove it. To save face only tell us why you feel those paddies and strips are neccessary to proving your theory. >> Hi Bob, Sorry, I'm a little confused and maybe haven't been paying as much attention as I should. What is the erroneous assertion that you are correcting, or theory that you are disproving? Has the Tucson bee lab been claiming that they have developed a bee that is immune to varroa? Tolerance and resistance are not the same thing as total immunity, it just means that the hives can withstand higher loads of mites, go longer between treatments, or require less toxic treatments. Even the Russian bees—which have been coevolving with varroa for 150 years—are coming with to us with the caveat that we should treat with formic once a year. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:09:52 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: re breeding for varroa tolerance (or resistance) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison wrote: > I am going to ask the Tucson bee lab a question so we can all hear their > response. Mr. Harrison: So that you know where I am coming from : I am not a PhD, nor a politician ; I am a biological research technician. I have taken quite a bit of flak from within my own organization for being present on this list, but I believe it is the future being born, and so I have persisted in checking in here several times per week, as well as from my home computer. Posts which I find pertinent, I forward to staff members I feel may be interested. Occasionally they choose to reply, as Dr. Schmidt did recently. These are kindly approved for posting by the list referees, even though I am the only list member at this lab. I do not get clearance for my posts beforehand and so am usually expressing my own opinions, filtered through 35 years experience in bee research. After receiving my Bachelor of Science degree from the U. of Arizona, I chose to continue working in my present capacity rather than attend graduate school for an advanced degree. You may read my bio on our web site, which I helped write. I am not interested in engaging you or anyone else on this list in a "flame war". I do not speak for the USDA. If you wish to correspond directly with Dr. Eric Erickson, his email is eric@tucson.ars.ag.gov or you may wish to speak with him directly at (520)670-6380, extension 104. I will not carry demands from you or anyone else to this lab, I will simply and quietly stop using this list if this continues. -Sincerely, Your humble public servant, John Edwards, Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS, Tucson, Arizona ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 17:32:09 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: re breeding for varroa tolerance (or resistance) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Bob, > Sorry, I'm a little confused and maybe haven't been paying as much > attention as I should. What is the erroneous assertion that you are > correcting, or theory that you are disproving? Has the Tucson bee lab been > claiming that they have developed a bee that is immune to varroa? Dr. Erickson at a meeting Ralph attended made the statement that he allready had bees at the Arizona bee lab which had acceptable levels of varroa tolerance at 12 -16 mites per 100 bees. Now go to my post of Monday April 17th for my response to Ralphs post and we should all be on the same page. > Tolerance and resistance are not the same thing as total immunity, it just > means that the hives can withstand higher loads of mites, go longer between > treatments, or require less toxic treatments. Even the Russian bees—which > have been coevolving with varroa for 150 years—are coming with to us with the > caveat that we should treat with formic once a year. Maybe there is a logical explanation as to why when the lab had a open house April 13th. the hives Dr. Erickson was talking about had strips and paddies in. I have got conformation from those in attendence on April 13th that was the case. I believe the research is worthwhile and i believe Dr. Erickson is a excellent researcher. In my post i said in my OPINION 12 to 14 mites per bee is not acceptable and if it is why did those hives have strips and paddies in when those researchers from other countries toured the lab. My information comes from another country by a person which was there. My only point is not to put down the lab or Dr. Erickson but to discuss if he really has got bees which will survive Varroa likes he claims. I believe at 12-16 mites per 100 bees he needs to go back to the drawing board. Thats not the result beekeepers were hoping for. At least not me! Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:05:52 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Getting Personal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends, I hope I can call all of you friends. I have made many good friends on this list and some sizable number of you I have met in person. Others I am looking forward to meeting someday. There is something special about people who would take the time to sit and write carefully crafted messages to strangers around the world about -- of all things -- a specific type of insect. BEE-L has been in existence for well over a decade now and has gone thru all the predictable stages of evolution, including some disgusting flame wars. Some time back some of us decided, with some apprehension, and at some personal effort, to moderate this list to eliminate SPAM and accidental or deliberate posting of binaries and viruses to the list and other problems that arise when 1,000+ people share one communication podium. Moderation has worked really well. If your computer is still working and you are reading this, maybe it is because of the fact that several viruses were turned away. As a by-product of moderation, the moderators have the capacity to stall -- or refuse -- posts which are clearly inappropriate in polite company. The moderators are all philosophically opposed to restrictions on free speech, but also very aware of how text messages can be misinterpreted, how some people can just be in an ugly mood, and how a flame war can quickly develop and destroy an intelligent forum. Seldom do we have to refuse ill-tempered messages. Usually just the knowledge that someone sober is going to read and judge the posting before approving is sufficient to ensure that good manners are followed. That is all we expect. We expect that those writing show appropriate respect for their readers and for those with whom they disagree. A little teasing is allowed, but very little, because of the potential for misunderstanding. Expressions of outright hostility or negative personal comment are frowned on simply because such messages inevitably lead to an uproar that leaves everyone unhappy and causes mass desertions by the very people whose intelligence and forbearance make the list such a pleasure. Recently we have had several posts which were -- deliberately or not -- quite personal in nature and which could possibly be interpreted as direct attacks on the people named. We generally are not too worried about general disagreement or even a bit of general disparagement if names are not mentioned, but when things get personal and names are being named, I, for one get worried. That's why I did not approve a recent post that put rather pointed and provocative questions to some specific researchers. I thought the question was reasonable, but the way it was written was bound to provoke. BEE-L is simply not the place to post personal challenges or grind axes. However, another moderator apparently saw fit to approve it. That's the way it works around here. I apologise that we dropped the ball here, and ask only that you remember that we are all interested in bees, there aren't that many of us, and making enemies deprives us of a potential friend and ally. allen ------ What's in my internet diary these days? Package bees, cell size, installing on foundation, defragging, personal mumblings and much more... http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:38:35 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ron Law Subject: URGENT INFORMATION REQUEST Comments: To: "nbalist@beekeeping.co.nz" , NZ Bkprs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New Zealand Ministry of Agriculture and NZ beekeeping officials are preparing a full economic impact report on the implications of the recent discovery of the Varroa mite in New Zealand. It is planned for this to be presented to the NZ government Cabinet on Monday 1 May to assist with decision making regarding risk management options (eradication, control, ask for more reports, go on holiday, etc.) I've been ask to prepare a report on the impact of Varroa on the production/sales of royal jelly, bee pollen, propolis and bee venom over a 1, 5, 10, 20 year period. Obviously the longer periods would be subject to a great deal of crystal ball gazing. At first glance, it might seem that Varroa would have little or no impact of, say, bee venom, however, if beekeepers are more involved in hive management then it seems they would have less time for harvesting secondary products. The big problem is that the report is needed by next Wednesday (26th April) Given my lecturing committments, this means that I have to finish on Tuesday (25th) NZ time (+12 hrs GMT). Could you please send me any information, reports, personal production statistics, anecdotal evidence -- any would be most greatful. Thanks very much in anticipation. Ron Law ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:40:46 PST Reply-To: haymedhon@telus.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Hancock Subject: Why Wasn't I Told? Tuscon has a bee lab? Why wasn't I told? Missouri has a flame thrower? Why wasn't I told? Allen Dick speaks in moderation? Why wasn't I told? I've got varroa? I'm glad I found it and not that know-it-all inspector. Ignorance was bliss, Ted Hancock ================================================================= Internet service provided by telus.net http://www.telus.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:48:40 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Townsend Organization: TPLR Honey Farms Subject: Re: scrapes the top and bottom bars MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I get a chuckle out of Allen's views and his supposed superior way of keeping bees. We scrape our honey supers and dead outs every spring before the season starts, sorting comb, introducing new comb, but we also scrape the bottom and top bars every time we break the hive down, sure, Allen may consider killing a few meaningless workers "acceptable", it just blows me away that there is a very good chance that the queen, the most important bee in the hive, could be there as well, is that "acceptable" beekeeping as well if you kill her off? The only time it is beneficial to not scrape the bottom bars is during the final pull, which we do as to allow the bees to seal the hive for the upcoming winter. What does it take to scrape the top and bottom bars, mere seconds, and you prevent the killing of bees and the queen, as well as allow better air flow through the hive, and keeping the hive cleaner and more easily workable. I think Allen's comments on the "holier than thou" beekeepers and his "seeing the light" are coming from a different hole in his body, his way is the lazy way on this folks, ask any large commercial beekeeper that produces a crop of honey, and the will tell you that they scrape the bars as well! I agree that you shouldn't be in the hives every day, but during a good flow, they can fill three supers in three days, what should we do then, still leave them for a couple weeks and get to them when we feel like it, in the mean time the bees are in the trees, is this good management as well? If you don't scrape them throughout the active season, all you get is a unneeded mess inside of the hives. Allen has some good ideas and views, but this is not one of them!!! Lee Townsend TPLR Honey Farms Stony Plain, Alberta ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:18:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: scrapes the top and bottom bars MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >I get a chuckle out of Allen's views and his supposed superior way of keeping bees. >We scrape our honey supers and dead outs every spring before the season starts, >sorting comb, introducing new comb, but we also scrape the bottom and top bars every >time we break the hive down, Seems like a lot of work, and a good deal of lost honey (due to the overhead of making the new wax) for what seems like about 60 hours of burr-free frames. I like to scrape out any burr comb that has drone cells in it to remove any resident Varroa when I find them. When I recently had to go back into a hive that I had cleaned up five days prior I found the new comb already in place. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:07:21 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: re breeding for varroa tolerance (or resistance) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/20/00 6:39:40 PM, busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM writes: << My only point is not to put down the lab or Dr. Erickson but to discuss if he really has got bees which will survive Varroa likes he claims. I believe at 12-16 mites per 100 bees he needs to go back to the drawing board. >> If Dr. Erickson has bred a honeybee that functions well without crashing while carrying a mite load of 12-16 mites per 100 bees, this may be progress. If honeybees and varroa mites can establish a symbiotic relationship where they can live together, the way a parasite and its host are supposed to live, then we may have a solution to the problem. The way we come to think about a solution to varroa may be a lot like the way we think about Integrated Pest Management. The presence of a pest alone isn't enough to warrant treatment, it's whether the prevalence of pest is great enough to merit concern. You say the number should be lower than what Dr. Erickson has found in his hives. It seems you are debating the numbers but both advocating the same curative scenario. I'm glad you've brought Erickson's work to my attention. I hope one of the U.S. bee journals will publish it soon. If his work has been published already, can somebody please post the reference? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:33:48 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ivan McGill Subject: formic acid & varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I don't know if this has been discussed before but here goes. Have there been tests done on how fast formic acid effects the varroa? Also what is the temperature for maximum kill? Ivan Prince Geroge, B.C. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:35:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Recent hostility on BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello all. I try very hard not to weigh in on this list as "the owner/editor". Most times I view that role as an unfortunate requirement in LISTSERV's configuration parameters. But I cannot divorce myself of the vested interest I have in this forum. I strive, as do the other moderators, to maintain a quality list that does service to the University at Albany, the subscribers and the beekeeping industry as a whole. This lists exists due to the generosity of the University at Albany where the resources are given to host and support the forum. Originally "owned" by the late Dr. Edward Southwick, BEE-L was intended for the discussion of BEES AND BEE BIOLOGY. In it's infancy, it was populated by researchers exchanging their ideas and discussions. As the list got "discovered" by cyber-beekeepers, Dr. Southwick welcomed their input to the discussions. As more and more beekeepers joined the list, it became obvious that the list was deviating from it's original intent, but this was never addressed by Dr. Southwick who passed away in August, 1995. Orphaned, the list continued more or less on auto-pilot. Beekeepers continued to come on board, flame wars became commonplace, misinformation abounded and somewhere along the way most researchers left. Indeed, the list degenerated to "chatroom" quality and reached the point that is was deserving of dissolution. Rather than ending the list, I chose the only way of enforcing the requests for civility and netiquette. That choice was list moderation. There are guidelines for submissions to BEE-L. I used to post them monthly, but such routine posting led to most routinely ignoring the post. Many subscribers will do well to review the BEE-L Guidelines for Posting, which are available on Allen's web page at: http://www.internode.net/Honeybee/BEE-L/guidelines.htm Allen's page calls them "rules", I prefer "guidelines". With a few technical exceptions (no HTML, minimal quotes of previously posted material), the guidelines can be summed up in two words, "Be civil". It literally pains me to put in the effort required to host a list of this size, only to have a contributor come on and rudely challenge the ideas of others. I do not live in a fantasy world where everyone always agrees with everyone else. I would not care to live in such a world. If ideas aren't challenged, things stagnate. But offensive barbs that alienate contributors cannot be tolerated. The guidelines for posting to BEE-L, and netiquette in general, insist that challenges be presented in a civil manner. Disagreements need not be rude, differences in thought can be presented in a way that will not warrant a later apology. There are times when contributors forget this. Most times the list moderators recognize an offensive post and stop it before it is distributed to the general membership. There are times when we falter. It only takes the approval of one moderator to distribute a submission, it takes a unanimous withholding of approval for a submission to be blocked. It is not often that the list moderators discuss individual submissions amongst themselves. But when offensive posts get beyond the safeguards, things are discussed and hopefully we resolve to continue to strive to keep up the quality of this forum. But there is only so much the moderators can do and we are not infallible. The real responsibility lies with the subscribers. If you are posting a challenge to others' views, don't do so with six guns blazing. Before you hit the send button, read what you are about to post and ask yourself if you've said anything in a manner that may have you posting an apology later. Have you been civil? Have you composed your thoughts in a manner that you would have if the person you are addressing was sitting at your dining room table sharing dinner? If not, recompose your submission. This list needs the researchers as much as it needs the beekeepers, perhaps more so. There are far fewer researchers and scientists on this list. And the researchers and scientists are well served considering the views of the beekeepers. No one is served when one offends the other. I apologize for the offences on this list within the past day. Sincerely, Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:34:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 18 Apr 2000 to 19 Apr 2000 (#2000-107) In-Reply-To: <200004200400.AAA23779@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:00 AM 4/20/00 -0400, you wrote: >I've only kept bees for five years so don't know anything about >Jumbo Dadant Hives. Reading about them they seem like they would be easier >to work and most beekeepers would only need one box for a brood chamber. >Brother Adam used these at Buckfast Abbey. > Why did they get discontinued? Since no one responded to your question, I will. The frames were too big. A regular sized frame can hold 5 or 6 pounds of honey and if it is not well built, it will break. The bottom bar may pull off or the ears of the frames may snap. This is especially a problem if the frames are old. I have no idea how working the jumbo hives would be, but I imagine the frames would be very awkward to remove. Most people would rather have a smaller frame than a larger one. The ideal hive is made of all deep supers. But for the sake of one's back, a shallower super for honey is a very good idea. Also, if one uses deeps for brood and shallows for honey (over an excluder), the chance of moving apistan contaminated combs and honey around is significantly reduced. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Peter Borst plb6@cornell.edu http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/plb6/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:18:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: re breeding for varroa tolerance (or resistance) - a response fro m Dr. Eric H. Erikson, Jr. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by eric@TUCSON.ARS.AG.GOV to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. ----------------- Original message (ID=93207B57) (128 lines) ------------------ To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: re breeding for varroa tolerance (or resistance)] Hello: As a matter of personal policy I do not ordinarily reply to personal attacks emanating out of e-chatrooms except when the accusations are libelous and/or mislead the beekeeping public. I don't participate in chatrooms. The attached was forwarded to me. The following are the true facts. 1. Mr. Harrison has never contacted me to verify his concerns/views or to seek the facts. He has not visited our study site. To my knowledge he has not contacted my collaborators. I have no idea what his purported source of information is. 2. I have never, in my 30+ years of research, treated a single honey bee colony for tracheal mites. 3. Neither I, nor my cooperator, a long time commercial beekeeper, nor has anyone else treated our three test apiaries for varroa since 1994. On rare occasion my cooperator has treated a single test colony in the fall to save it, whereupon it is removed from the study and moved to one of his other ~30 apiaries. Data for these colonies for the year, up to but not following treatment, are included in our tabulations. 4. Our work on varroa tolerance has been published in the American Bee Journal. Our first paper was in the refereed section where it was reviewed by other scientists prior to publication. My collaborating beekeeper is a co-author on these publications and has reviewed them for accuracy and completeness. These publications are available on our home page. 5. Hence, given the above, there were no treatments in mid April. We did sample in early April, 2000. In April, the overall mean level of varroa infestation for all 48 colonies which are distributed among 3 apiaries was 5.2 mites per 100 bees. The range was 0.5 - 14.5 mites per 100 bees per colony. All bees are taken directly from the brood nest. 6. Our mean annual level of infestation has been holding steady since 1996 at 6-7 mites per 100 bees. And, I would reiterate that this is without any form of intervention for mite control. 7. Anyone wishing corroborate these statements should feel free to contact my collaborators. Eric H. Erickson, Ph.D. Dr. Eric H. Erickson fax:520-670-6493 work:520-670-6380 X104 http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov Carl Hayden Bee Research Center eric@tucson.ars.ag.gov