From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jun 17 06:53:29 2000 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29403 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10473 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200006171053.GAA10473@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:11 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0004E" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 26625 Lines: 574 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:42:20 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Hale Organization: The "B"ee Spot Subject: Re: Killer bees flee the dry weather for cities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I work every day in South Africa with so called "Killer Bees". During swarming they are very mild tempered, as they have nothing to protect ie, honey or brood. In Africa it is very dry and bees have to bee prepared to move to greener pastures as the need arises. In Africa they have to be prepared to defend their honey and brood from some serious preditores. Some of our preditores have some mean tactics. Forget using electric fences etc. these guys are not bothered by that sort of thing, I have had site with 50 hives totaly destroyed by the honey badger in 1 night, so yes our bee has to be aggresive. I train fire depts in SA on handling incidents with "killer bees", and during these sesions I question the fire fighters on any incidents they have had so far. Belive it or not all incidents were caused by some uneducated (bee wise that is) member of public doing some thing to the bees. You would be amased at what some people do, even worse for the bee industry is the media does not mention what actualy caused the bees to react in the way that they did. In one incident an adult male tryed to destroy a track swarm hanging from a tree in his garden, at midday with a tin of house hold insecterside. Due to the amount of bees the tin of Doom stood no chance and only put the bees into a defence mode. The only form of defence for them was to attac. Unfortunatly two elderly women were walking past at the time, and were attacted by the bees. The fire dept. were called, due to lack of training and equipment (not any more) they strugled to resue the two women. One of the two women later died in hospital. Who got the bad rap ? The bees, but it should have been the idiot who used the tin of Doom on the bees. Asked why he did it ? The local bee farmers usualy charge a nominal fee about $25 ). I do not know how your bees react to such incidents, but I think it would be intresting to see what actualy caused those bee related deaths. We must all remember the bee is a wild insect we only supply housing, we have not been able to tame or domesticate a bee yet. Dont get me wrong most insect and animals, from Africa are more aggresive but if given the right respect will not be a problem. The Africanised honey bee is not going to be eradicated from the US so the public at large need to be educated about it, other wise the poor bee farmer is going to get all the flak. Who is responsible for the education of the public ? Yes, the govement and state departments, but more importantly it is the responciblity of each and every bee farmer, big and small. Regards Mark Hale >From not so dark Africa Hosts Apimondia 2001 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:16:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: ahb in s.w. usa/biocontrol for ahb Comments: cc: deelusbybeekeeper@up2me.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit there are a couple of threads in the sci.agriculture.beekeeping newsgroup that may bee of interest...best followed using remarq links: http://www.remarq.com/read/4586/qA3H3jnmE7AwC-yMg#LR http://www.remarq.com/read/4586/qA0yLMte3URQC-yMe#LR ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 09:29:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Workshop on introducing bumblebees to Australia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From Sci.Ag.beekeeping: <> <<"Kevan & Laverty (1990) warned about the possibility of spreading Varroa mites (a serious pest of honeybees) by other insects, including bumblebees, although it is not thought to be a critical problem according to Chris Plowright.>> OK, I understand that if varroa was a problem parasite for bumblebees, we would know about it by now probably. But is there any research, eyewitness accounts or scientific evidence that bumblebees are vectors, or carriers, of varroa or tracheal mites? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:12:41 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Workshop on introducing bumblebees to Australia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> Answered my own question in the archives (the answer is yes), but nobody has had anything to say about the issue for over 5 years (since 1995). Is there any new research into the possibility of bumblebees, wasps and other critters carrying varroa into honey bee colonies? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:46:26 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: Workshop on introducing bumblebees to Australia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Mitchell wrote: > > >From Sci.Ag.beekeeping: > < > OK, I understand that if varroa was a problem parasite for bumblebees, we > would know about it by now probably. But is there any research, eyewitness > accounts or scientific evidence that bumblebees are vectors, or carriers, of > varroa or tracheal mites? I don't believe we really know all the ways varroa is transported around the world or even across countrys. Many theorys are out there. Bees as the carriers are first thought of but in the U.S. even apiaries in remote areas ended up with varroa. i believe varroa free bumble bees are possible for introduction but tracheal mite free might be tricky. I believe of varroa was a serious pest to the bumble bee we would see less bumble bees in Missouri. On the other hand i believe if varroa were on Bumble Bees in our area i believe the varroa could drasticly reduce Bumble Bee populations. The reason being only the queen winters over in Missouri. Rest die off in winter and varroa would die with them. If the queen winters deep in the ground for months with varroa feeding on her then i would be surprised if she would be alive in the spring. Only my opinion John and my opinion is not regarded very highly in scientific circles. He He i would really miss those Bumble Bees as i have laughed so hard that tears come to my eyes at these farmers and their Bumble Bee "BITE" stories! They allways come to me with their tales of Bumble Bee terror! Mowing and hay baleing time is the worst they say! Have to keep a straight face dealing with the good ole boys! Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 22:21:17 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: How varroa is introduced Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all I would suggest that any logical individual will readily accept that the bees which ended up in New Zealand with varroa did not fly there. Equally the bees that ended up in Ireland with varroa did not fly here. And equally the bees which will end up in Hawaii with varroa will not fly there. So, people are moving varroa infested bees into areas that did not have varroa. Why?? Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 16:08:35 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: How varroa is introduced Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tom Barrett asked: >I would suggest that any logical individual will readily accept that the >bees which ended up in New Zealand with varroa did not fly there. >Equally, the bees that ended up in Ireland with varroa did not fly here. >And equally, the bees which will end up in Hawaii with varroa will not fly >>there. >So, people are moving varroa infested bees into areas that did not have varroa. >Why?? I feel Tom has "hit the nail on the head." Since beekeeping began, I suspect that beekeepers have always felt that they could do better if ONLY they had a better bee --- overlooking an alternative idea that they could do so if they could develop better management practices. In fact, we have revered people who have transported various strains of bees across bodies of water. However, time and time again, beekeepers have proved that they are their own worst enemy. Name any pestilence, and you can be certain that some beekeeper has introduced it into a previously uninfested area --- again, in the name of "improving" existing conditions. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ******************************************************************** * * "When we meet a fact which contradicts a prevailing theory, * we must accept that fact and abandon the theory, even when * the theory is supported by great names and generally * accepted." * * Claude Bernard --- 1865 ******************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:44:24 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: How varroa is introduced MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Computer Software Solutions Ltd wrote: > > Hello all > > I would suggest that any logical individual will readily accept that the > bees which ended up in New Zealand with varroa did not fly there. >As i said today in a earlier post science doesn't know for sure how varroa is traveling. Bees being the logical choice but not the only possible mode of travel. Birds have been suggested. Many mites travel on birds. > And equally the bees which will end up in Hawaii with varroa will not fly there. I would bet they are allready there as they were in New Zealand. Last year the New Zealand beekeepers would have been upset with even thinking varroa was in their country when in fact we think now might have been there two even three years ago. Many ships pass thru Hawaii and scientists believe swarms could fly to shore with varroa mites. You ask a good question for which i don't think we yet have the answer. Most beekeepers look to find varroa in their dead outs or week colonies. Thats the wrong place to look in a country varroa might be infesting for the first time. Your best and strongest colonies were the colonies we first found varroa in in Missouri. There have been many casualties in the panic to control mites. American bee Journal August 1985 page 537. 1500 colonies may be gassed by authorities to control tracheal mites. The owner Mrs. Prettyman said quote: "We came to make some honey and it takes a lot of money to move bees all over the place. Its not right to take someones living away." Dunseith, North Dakota 1985. Did it stop the spread of the mite? No! Did it even slow the spread? No! New Zealand needs to stop pointing the finger and help there fellow beekeepers work thru this problem. There is life after varroa ! My advice for Hawaii is to start testing closely and try to catch early. We knew varroa was comming but many beekeepers did not keep a close eye on their bees and loses were huge in winter 1995-1996. Bees were robbing out feral colonies and bringing 5-6 mites per bee back to colonies. those not catching the activity and not putting strips in that winter suffered many dead hives in the spring. Bob Harrison U.S.A. > > So, people are moving varroa infested bees into areas that did not have varroa. > > Why?? > > Sincerely > > Tom Barrett > 49 South Park > Foxrock > Dublin 18 > Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:46:16 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: How varroa is introduced MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All A simple answer...The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. A more complex answer...It is too much hard work for most beekeepers to do the wing morphometry and spend 20 years selecting strains from their own localised and aclimatised bees to improve the stock that they already have and so people seek "better bees" from over the horizon. Far from improving the situation this brings about more mongrelisation and poorer temper ultimately getting all beekeepers a bad name. Your "better bees" are already in your own hives...it is just a matter of extracting the good traits and deselecting the bad ones. (simple to say...difficult to do) Far too much emphasis has been put on, productivity, honey gathering and profundity. All of these should be secondary considerations. The first priority should be temper, in bees that are suited to the area. When this is acheived you can start selecting for productivity & honey gathering. On my soap box again, best regards Dave Cushman ----- Original Message ----- From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd To: Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 10:21 PM Subject: How varroa is introduced > Hello all > > So, people are moving varroa infested bees into areas that did not have varroa. > > Why?? > > Sincerely Tom Barrett > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 07:09:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: How varroa is introduced MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Computer Software Solutions Ltd wrote: > So, people are moving varroa infested bees into areas that did not have varroa. > Why?? My guess is just the same way AHB has moved in some cases, not because of beekeepers but our global transportation network. They probably came in by boat or even plane. They have found AHB in boats, trucks and cars. We had a full hive of AHB come into Maine in set of electrical equipment sent in to a local power plant from South America. The crates came in during the winter and were moved into warm storage. When the crates were opened, the bees were still alive and well. Had it been summer and the crates stored outside, the bees would have easily setup shop somewhere else. So the introduction could easily have been by something other than a beekeeper. And not intentional or irrational. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:26:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Could Apis Cerana be the answer to AHB & Varroa? Hello All, The January 1990 issue of American Bee Journal has a article on page 32 about " Queen Rearing with Apis Cerana" by Sirwat Wongsiri, Lai You-Sheng and H. Allen Sylvester. quote: Since 1957 ,the modern beekeeping methods of Apis Mellifera have been introduced for use with A. Cerana in China. quote: After the adoption of modern beekeeping and queen rearing methods,the colony numbers and honey yield increased year by year.By 1963,honey bee populations had increased to about 6,000 colonies with a annual yield of 300,000kg honey,or a average of almost 50kg of honey per colony.(Wongsiri et al. 1986) Question: wouldn't A.Cerana if introduced into the U.S be able to be kept in areas of African bees without fear becoming hybrids. Wouldn't A.Cerana be able to produce honey without any treatment for varroa and thus avoid all fears of chemicals in our honey? As per article couldn't the queen breeders switch over to raising selling A. Cerana queens and packages? The beekeeping industry could start on a small scale even in AHB areas with A.Cerana. All modern beekeeping equipment could be used except we would need A.Cerana size foundation for our frames. Varroa can only reproduce in A.Cerana drone brood due to the small worker cell size. At my location in Missouri i raise and sell Osmia lignaria lignaria and O. lignaria propinqua for polination. Fact: they fly at times A. Mellifera won't and one O. lignaria will polinate better than 100 A. Mellifera. i am on a waiting list to get started with Osmia cornifrons next year. My point in saying the above is that Osmia cornifrons IS NOT NATIVE of U.S. and was introduced from Japan in 1977. After 23 years its safe to say the introduction was a good thing with no problems. Supply is a problem but the bees are NOT. Currently there are millions of A.Cerana colonies in Asia to get our start from. Why not? For those of you reading bee-l which have never heard my OPINION of why varroa switched hosts from A.Cerana to A. mellifera i will put in print for archives. Why would Varroa stay with a colony of A. cerana where it could only reproduce in the drone cells when in A. melliferia colonies it could reproduce in all cells. A choice varroa would later come to regret because you don't want to KILL your host. For many years i have been of the opinion a smaller cell size could possibly limit varroa and control could be done thru IPM. After rereading again the ABJ article from 1990 i am wondering why not import Apis Cerana. If for not any other reason but to help beekeepers in AHB areas and get hobbiests in those areas back. Why not repopulate the feral colonies with A.Cerana? Looking for a better solution for varroa and African bees! Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2094 11:44:55 -0700 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Banana to clean up chalkbrood. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Drutchas asks if anyone has heard about bananas as a fungicide. No. But several commercial beekeepers here add one to two tablespoons of cinnamon per pound of powdered sugar and terramycin mix and claim chalkbrood is significantly less in treated colonies. An old beekeeper on the Washington coast wondered one day why cinnamon rolls (pastry) never mildew under conditions which lead to mold on other pastry. He tried cinnamon on his bee hives and the bees cleaned up the chalkbrood quickly and the treated hives didn't break down again, according to his report. I'd like to see some of you give this idea a good test. Maybe some of you who keep bees in the blueberries in New Jersey or other wet parts of the northeast, or maybe on the Olympic Peninsula of Washington State might give this a try. Treat one half of the colonies (preferably at least 10) in one or several apiaries and leave the other half untreated. Visit the apiaries in one or two weeks and count the number of cells of chalkbrood you see on each of three brood nest frames (in the center of each broodnest) in the treated and untreated hives. Put the number in your field note book and give us a report of the minimum, maximum, and average number of chalkbrood cells in the treated and untreated hives. James C. Bach jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 08:44:16 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Banana to clean up chalkbrood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This was floated in Australia as the be all and end all of stopping chalkbrood. It was based on a medical paper where bananas were used to help stop some forms of ulcers as I recall. However, the beekeepers did not realise that ulcers are caused by bacteria and chalkbrood by a fungi. Some beekeepers started using bananas cut in half and placed on the top bars above the brood area. The skin and all was used. The theory was that it was the potassium in the banana that was doing the trick. There had been stories of using lite salt to stop chalkbrood i.e. salt that has the sodium replaced by the potassium, and this is where the potassium idea came from. After several seasons, the reports are that the hives are still getting chalkbrood just as bad. So it seems that there is no need to rush out and buy a banana plantation. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 07:14:57 +0800 Reply-To: "Joel F. Magsaysay" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Joel F. Magsaysay" Organization: ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE FARMS Subject: Re: Could Apis Cerana be the answer to AHB & Varroa? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, There are also a. cerana strains which are unproductive and abscond at the drop of a hat. Here in the Philippines, our local experts say that we have about 5 species of a. cerana. This is still under study by Dr. Dennis Anderson of Australia. My friend, Dr. RWK Punchihewa of Sri Lanka, documented that a. cerana usually forages only 400 meters from its hive. Maybe this makes it unsuitable to the wide open spaces of North America. It also mates in thickets to avoid predation. It's erratic flight pattern makes it suitable to Asia, where there are a lot os bee eating birds, etc. Joel F. Magsaysay ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE FARMS Cavite Highlands, Philippines (063) 46-865-0018 ilogmria@cav.pworld.net.ph > Currently there are millions of A.Cerana colonies in Asia to get our start > from. Why not? > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 23:12:49 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Short fall in swarm destination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yesterday, 29th April, looking at the entrance of several stacked hives behind my honey house, it was evident that scout bees were eyeing up the location. 2.30pm, in came the first swarm, hovered over the roof and then on to one of the selected hives- classic. 3.20pm, over the field came another swarm, but this time it clustered about 150 metres short of the fore mentioned hive bodies, in a blackthorn hedge - heavily spiked and just right to poke into sensitive places. Any ideas why such swarms seem to not to finish their journey.Yes, I am presuming that it was heading into one of the boxes. Once it was collected, removed to an isolation apiary the remaining activity ceased around the" destination" hive. Regards Peter.