From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jun 17 06:53:32 2000 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29409 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10476 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200006171053.GAA10476@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:12 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0005A" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 260894 Lines: 5740 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:44:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Subject: Re: How varroa is introduced In-Reply-To: <200004292226.SAA14880@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > So, people are moving varroa infested bees into areas that did not have varroa. > > Why?? > Maybe the people are the ones with the Varroa? In clothing, equipment or on their persons. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 12:07:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: FWD: NZ quarantine backed with fines, jail Comments: cc: FloridaBeekeepers@onelist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "JMitc1014" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 12:24 PM Subject: NZ quarantine backed with fines, jail > Article below from The Evening Post in Wellington, NZ (April 24). Is it > accurate to say that beekeeping in some Southern states of the U.S. has been > "devastated" by the introduction of the small hive beetle? Also, I'm interested > in comparing quarantines: What are the repercussions (legal and financial) of > violating the quarantine on moving honey bees out of Texas counties that have > been infested with the Africanized honey bees? And a question for New Zealand > beekeepers: How far across is Cook Strait? ____________________________________________ > Mite invasion exposes soft underbelly > > By Barry Hawkins > > The recent varroa bee mite discover, and snakes found at our ports, have > caused disquiet among industries and MAF officers responsible for > New Zealand's border defences. THE bee mite emergency has exposed New Zealand's > vulnerability to organic nasties bombarding our borders. > > Beekeeper Don Bell sums up the feelings of many in the industry: "We've been > acutely aware that we were very susceptible," he says. "Sooner or later some > damn thing was going to happen." > > Honey producers in about 40 other countries live with the deadly varroa mite > that has been found in the northern North Island. Bell says the risk of its > spread here was a constant worry. > > "Our worst nightmare, you could say. This creature kills bees - it kills them > very effectively, very efficiently, very quickly." > > The mite has the potential to devastate honey production, and a thriving export > in live bees. Primary industries that depend on bees for pollination are also > fearful. The mite can be chemically controlled but not eradicated. Control is > costly and could force many small beekeepers out of business. > > The benefits bees bring to the economy are valued at about $ 9 billion. They > are essential to the production of an estimated 80 percent of the > country's food. > > The mite was first found in South Auckland and might have spread to the > horticulturally rich Bay of Plenty, although this now seems less likely. > > The Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry (MAF) has banned moving hives in the > North Island, and several beekeepers being investigated for > possible breaches of the ban could face heavy fines, even jail. A big effort is > going into protecting South Island apiaries. > > Dr Barry Donovan, of Lincoln, an independent researcher specialising in bees > and wasps, says if the mite is confined to the North Island > eventually the country could be split into two beekeeping provinces with a > permanent ban on all bees and equipment moving from the North to the South > Island. > > "We could end up with border controls at South Island airports and seaports for > people coming from the North Island." > > Even then honey producers might not be safe. "We are not 100 percent certain > that drone bees couldn't fly across Cook Strait." > > But Andrew Matheson, of MAF's biosecurity authority, doubts this is much of a > risk. > > "I'd have to consult textbooks but I don't think drones could actively fly that > distance across water. You are talking more about (the risk of) bees being > blown across." > > A successful quarantine of the North Island raises the possibility of the South > Island at least marketing its honey as chemical-free, thus preserving part of > the premium New Zealand honey has enjoyed until now. > > There are claims the varroa mite was deliberately released but how it got here > may never be known. > > Bell, an executive member of the National Association of Beekeepers, is > reluctant to predict what may happen to his industry. > > He says other countries infested by the varroa mite have experienced a shakeout > of smaller operators and a drop in production. > > "That goes for all hive products, whether its beeswax, propolis or any of the > things that are currently extracted by the bee industry." > > Bell, whose apiary is in Sheffield, inland from Christchurch, says the majority > of the "public good" benefits of the industry are through pollination, and > aren't reflected in returns to beekeepers. Neither is this very often publicly > recognised. > > He says while beekeepers are anxious about their livelihoods and keen to learn > how the mite got here, they aren't looking for scapegoats. "They (beekeepers) > are not running round like a lynch mob. They are getting on with the job to the > extent they can and supporting MAF. That's good. It gives a measure of hope." > > There are few positives to be found, though Donovan identifies one. He says > overseas experience shows that wild hives in rock cavities, hollow > trees and old buildings are eliminated by the mite. This could benefit native > wildlife. "Introduced bees in native environments have competed with native > insects and birds for pollen and nectar for 160 years." > > Donovan says native species can be expected to prosper with their main > competition gone. He says because only Australia and central Africa are varroa > mite-free, infestation here was probably inevitable. > > Bad though the mite is, the honey industry has remained free of even worse > scourges such as the small hive beetle from Africa, which has > devastated honey production in some southern US states. > > European brood disease and the cape honey bee are other bee menaces New Zealand > has avoided. Donovan says this may be more by good luck > than good management. > > Our borders are being bombarded by organisms. Many get established without > causing too many problems. > > Others like the varroa mite are plague-like. Donovan says trying to erect > totally efficient border barriers would be hugely expensive and, in the end, > likely to be futile. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 12:42:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Small Hive Beetle Comments: cc: Curtiscrow@WORLDNET.ATT.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cross-posted from sci.agriculture.beekeeping newsgroup, fyi... Subject: re: hive beetle Date: 04/29/2000 Author: Teri Bachus from the june'99 apis newsletter: http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis99/apjun99.htm#1 Reports of small hive beetle activity this spring have been mixed. As winter in Florida drew to a close, few adults could be detected, but later larvae started appearing again in honey houses. The beetle also began to be spread around. Infestations in Ohio, New Jersey and Pennsylvania have all been linked to package bee shipments from the southeast. The insect also has been reported in Minnesota, where it appears to have overwintered successfully in 1998. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 13:13:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: ahb and capensis/bees and tnt Comments: cc: mwthebee@MWEB.CO.ZA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit have enjoyed seeing posts from south africa on the bee-list again (where's garth cambray?)...any experience with capensis and/or scutellata is of value worldwide, thanks for sharing... btw, noticed no reply on query about explosives/bees and found this in my files, unfortunately no source references available but many versions of this have been circulated both on and off bee-l so thought to pass it along...for what it's worth, the often mentioned j.bromenshenk is an active participant of this list, maybe you could communicate directly and get more info... "Bees get recruited to fight pollution >From wire reports - As if bees weren't already busy with pollinating and making honey. Scientists are recruiting these industrious insects to scour the countryside for pollution. Bees are basically "flying dust mops," says Jerry Bromenshenk, an entomologist at the University of Montana in Missoula. On their many trips to and from the hive, they pick up particles of dust and pollution in the air. Stuck to the bees' bristly hairs, the particles and pollutants get carried into the hive, where the bees dislodge the pollutants when they groom themselves. And while fanning their wings, they circulate contaminated air throughout the hive. Bromenshenk and other scientists are monitoring hive air to measure the types and quantities of pollutants that far-foraging bees carry back with them. Using highly sensitive equipment, they sniff the air for traces of heavy metals, atomic radiation and the chemical signatures of dry cleaning fluids and other semivolatile and volatile compounds. Bromenshenk started using bees as "dirt magnets" about 25 years ago. Nowadays, even more detailed information can be gathered from programmable microchips, glued to the bees' bellies or backs. Each microchip weighs less than 30 milligrams_a bit big for the average honeybee but fine for its bigger cousin, the bumblebee.Using hand-held scanners, the researchers can identify individual bees in flight. Bee-based technologies are now being trained to locate buried land mines. An estimated 60 million to 70 million of these deadly explosive devices are currently located in 70 countries. All land mines leak minute quantities of explosive into their surroundings. Bromenshenk hopes that bees can be trained to pick up this scanty evidence and bring it home to the hive, where monitors can detect it. This would help bomb squads with their efforts to defuse our planet's lands. Should the team and its trained flyers succeed, the world will be a safer and more bee-utiful place to live." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 04:12:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Beekeeping on allotments I am on the point of acquiring my first colony of bees, which I intend to keep (illegally) on a Birmingham allotment site. On our site, each plot has its own hedge, so there is no lack of privacy, and I don't expect it to be noticed. The Council only took over the site, which goes back to the 1840's, 40 years ago, there is a bit of a tradition of beekeeping, and after the damage the Council has done to the site, something of a tradition of resistance to their edicts. Has anyone got any experience of keeping bees in public places, which could be used to argue for a change in the rules? Regards, Robert Brnchley RSBrenchley@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 07:36:09 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Beekeeping on allotments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/1/00 4:29:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, RSBrenchley@AOL.COM writes: > Has anyone got any experience of keeping > bees in public places, which could be used to argue for a change in the > rules? Check http://pollinator.com/beekper_resources.htm for links on suburban and urban beekeeping. Dave Green http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 10:05:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Modified Dadant Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It was said ">Briefly, a member wrote querying the demise of >the deep Dadant comb" Someone once told me that the Modified Dadant or Jumbo hive was the best ever designed for bees, but not for beekeepers! Fortunately, the reports of its demise are premature. Thousands of these things are still in use in the United States, primarily in the mid-west. While not listed in their catalog, Dadant still makes several types of the deep foundation that is necessary. As these jumbos are primarily or solely used by beekeepers who "know what they are doing", they are able to make hive covers and bottom boards with little difficulty. Many, if not all, use the Jumbo as a brood nest and never move or reverse it. When they want to use Langsforth equipment, such as supers, excluders, pollen traps, etc. they just put a board over two of the frames on one side and put the Langsforth equipment on top. Any rain getting in between the board and the other equipment doesn't harm the bees or the brood. Overseas, the Jumbo size is still used as standard and one can readily buy new equipment. In France, the Jumbo is the de facto standard. Again, beekeepers do not reverse hive bodies. In Turkey, Greece, and parts of Africa and South America it is also more common than Langsforth. I started with Jumbos, not out of choice but because that is what a beekeeper sold me when I was starting out. For 20 years it was all I used, then I changed to Langsforth. Unfortunately, when I changed it was to deeps, and now I know I should have changed to mediums. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 11:09:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rod Billett Subject: New Queen Behavior ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am in the need for some answers relating to New quee Unfortunatly, I have been busy with work and family this spring, and my 2 hives have not recieved the attention needed. So, bees being bees, they both swarmed on 4/12 (19 Days ago) about 3 weeks ago, and didnt hang around for me to catch them. According to the books, the new queens should emerge 2-4 Days after the swarm, First Flight in another 3 days mated in another 3 and Laying 5 Days Later (Total of 15 days - if my numbers are right). I waited until yesterday to look for eggs and need some answers to what I found. Another interesting (to me at least) bit of information. I had marked queens (visually seen during inspections) in my hives last spring - lots of bees and lots of honey - only one swarm which was caught and subsequently recombined with the hive it came from - When I checked the hives last fall, I visually spotted unmarked queens in both hives (supercedure). Brood pattern was excellent, so I stuck with them and considered it a Requeened hive. I thought of requeening this spring, but build up and pattern was good, they were less than 7 month old queens, so I followed the "Aint broke dont fix it" rule... no Sugar Syrup or Pollen was fed to either hive, and they were still going like gangbusters - resulting in the swarms. Hive #1 was devoid of any sign of a queen. No Eggs, No Larvae, No Capped Brood. (At least 21 days since the last egg was laid) My Hive 1 concerns are that there is no Viable Queen within the hive - or have I not waited long enough to see her evidence. Lost on her flights, Ate by a bird, etc. Hive #2 had No Larvae or Capped Brood, but I did see eggs in a random pattern on 2-3 frames (the eggs were well placed in the cells - standing up in the bottom of the cell, and no evidence of multiple eggs in a cell). So - it has been at least 21 days since the old queen laid eggs, and the new queen has not been laying eggs for more than 3 Days. Hive #2 Concerns are that the queen was not well mated (sporadic pattern). Has enough time elapsed since the swarms that they should have been laying and at least seen lots of eggs, and maybe some small larvae. Should I give them a few more days to become established (then requeen in the fall) - or find the queens in both hives kill them and requeen now? Thanks Rod Billett Lexington, SC ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 12:37:40 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: New Queen Behavior ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/1/00 8:14:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rbillett@SCTCORP.COM writes: > Has enough time elapsed since the swarms that they should have been > laying and at least seen lots of eggs, and maybe some small larvae. > Should I give them a few more days to become established (then requeen > in the fall) - or find the queens in both hives kill them and requeen > now? Rod, One of the reasons I hate to lose swarms is that you have next to nothing afterwards. You have no brood, a bunch of snotty bees, and may or may not have a queen, who is very difficult to find, and who always seems to take longer than it should to become evident. If you give me a choice between the swarm and the hive they left, I'll take the swarm anyday. Requeening right now is not an option, in my experience. Old bees just don't accept queens well. The only requeening method with any real kind of hope of acceptance is to drop a nuc into the hive. I do not linger over these hives that have lost swarms. Depending on their strength and how long since the swarm was cast, I give them a frame of open brood with eggs, and perhaps another frame with sealed brood. Then I mark them for a later check. Anything else is just a waste of time. Don't worry about the one that has started laying spotty brood, as this is common with young queens anyway. By giving them brood, you will either help the young queen get established, or give the bees an option to replace her if she's poorly mated. Dave Green http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 21:13:07 +0100 Reply-To: John Burgess Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Burgess Subject: Re: How varroa is introduced MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > So, people are moving varroa infested bees into areas that did not have varroa. > > Why?? Hi Tom, Varroa moves in mysterious ways! More to the point, people do move varroa over vast distances; varroa was introduced to Wales by beekeepers moving bees e.g. to the heather. Having said that, it was only a matter of time before it reached us by more natural means. Introduction to Ireland was very probably via Wales! swarms are known to travel via lorries on ferries, and could travel some distance into Ireland before dropping off. Only speculation, but does account for first discoveries in unexpected places John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru/The Welsh Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:14:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: NZ quarantine / bumblebees Comments: cc: jmitc1014@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit beekeeping "devastation" in the south by small hive beetle is still debatable...it appears at least two introductions of shb occurred from unidentified finds in s.carolina (1996) and georgia (1997); by the time shb was identified in florida (1998) and thereafter it was blamed for the loss of some tens of thousands of colonies...however, this episode overlapped the discovery of fluvalinate/amitraz resistant varroa and the resultant collapse of hives could have had more to do with that than opportunistic scavenger beetles... jury is still out and the matter continues to be controversial, but overlooked for the most part is the potential impact on all pollen bees, both native/exotic and social/solitary, as shb can complete it's lifecycle in the abscence of honey bees (see the article on bombus as potential alternate host in abj 1/00) and even in some fruits (cantaloupe as reported in earlier abj's)... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:30:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Ralston Subject: Re: New Queen Behavior ... In-Reply-To: <200005011512.LAA22934@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 1 May 2000, Rod Billett wrote: > Hive #1 was devoid of any sign of a queen. No Eggs, No Larvae, No > Capped Brood. (At least 21 days since the last egg was laid) > My Hive 1 concerns are that there is no Viable Queen within the hive > - or have I not waited long enough to see her evidence. Lost on her > flights, Ate by a bird, etc. Last spring, I was also too busy with events in my own life to look after my hive properly, and it swarmed. I tried to catch the swarm, but was unsuccessful. A full 4 weeks later, I saw no evidence of a laying queen. No eggs, no brood, and grumpy bees. A week later, a bear knocked over the hive and scooped out some of the combs. I wrote the hive off as a complete loss, and decided I'd just wait for the bees to die off. The next week, when I was able to check in on the hive, to my surprise, the colony didn't look like it was dying off. I uprighted the hive and put it back together as best I could. I looked at a few frames, and there were excellent patterns of eggs and brood. The bees were good-tempered and didn't bother me. Where was the new queen during those 6 weeks? If she were in the hive, and mated, why wasn't she laying? I have no idea. All I know is that the queen decided to make her presence known long after she "should" have. So, I wouldn't necessarily assume your hive doesn't have a queen. If you have another hive, I'd take a frame of brood from that hive and put it in the one that swarmed; if indeed it isn't queenright, that should allow the bees to try again... James Ralston Pennsylvania, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 22:16:21 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: Re: capensis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > have enjoyed seeing posts from south africa on the bee-list again > (where's garth cambray?)...any experience with capensis and/or scutellata is > of value worldwide, thanks for sharing... Happy to be on the Bee-L. This is my first correspondence barring the notice of the Bee Course we are convening. I started off on a bit of a bad note ... what with the vibes last week! Sorry, have never heard of Garth. A short resume: We are based in Cape Town, work exclusively with A.m. capensis, pollinate extensively (deciduous, pome and some summer stuff) produce and pack a variety of monofloral honeys. I have been serving on the committee of the Western Cape Bee Industry Assoc. for 12 + years, am a delegate to the SA Federation of Beefarmers' Associations and on the Southern African Bee Industry Executive. For the Assoc. I convene the course and edit a newsletter "CAPENSIS" dealing with social, technical and newsworthy articles, relevant to A.m. capensis beekeepers. I hope any input from me to this discussion group will be of value. I also hope that I may, on occasion glean relevant input for our members from this DG. I will request e-approval before doing this though. Greetings, happy beekeeping, good discussion and God bless Robert Post crpost@telkomsa.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 22:56:18 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Irish Beekeeping Website Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All The first version of the Irish Beekeeping Website is now available at www.irishbeekeeping.ie Please visit us, and tell us what you think of our site. It is still under development and the undersigned will be delighted to receive your suggestions. Ongoing development of the site will be carried out from time to time. Also pictures of beekeeping relevance would be most welcome. We would also welcome as many links to the site as possible. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 16:59:22 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Bt could diminish wax moths in west MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The U.S. forest service is planning to spray nine national forests in the Northwest this spring with Bacillus thuringiensis var. Kurstaki to control the douglas Fir tussock moth. Upwards of 2 milion acres could be sprayed. After receiving some concerned comments about the use of an insectide that kills moths, butterflies and all insects of the order Lepidoptera, they have added a new "alternative" to their plan to use an insecticide that only affects the targeted moth, but it is only an alternative. The use of Bt has not been renounced. If the U.S. forest service goes ahead with the Bt plan, beekeepers in the affected areas could see these results: 1) Greatly reduced population of wax moths. 2) A greater need for pollinating insects and animals since moth and butterfly pollinators will be devastated. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:10:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Robert J. Bassett" Subject: Re: Small Hive Beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/01/2000 7:19:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tomasmozer@JUNO.COM writes: << Reports of small hive beetle activity this spring have been mixed. As winter in Florida drew to a close, few adults could be detected, but later larvae started appearing again in honey houses. >> Hello Friends, The hive beetle has made some very significant inroads in Florida. I don't want to alarm you unnecessarily. This is, however, necessary. A fellow beekeeper friend of mine called me at work today. He is fearing that he may be put out of business if he can't get a handle on the Hive Beetles in his yards. He has experimented with various means to combat the beetle and has concluded that the larvae stage is significantly tougher than it's parents. He said he was cleaning up some of his equipment with bleach and he poured some bleach on a small group of larvae. These critters just swam through the bleach and were still alive the next day when he checked on them! He is experiencing an extremely rapid rate of hive failures. He will have an apparently healthily hive one week. The queen will have a beautiful brood pattern. The next week, this same hive will be riddled with Hive Beetles and ready to collapse. He is really frantic, to say the least. The destructive ability of this beetle is way more than I have been reading about. These bugs eat brood and honey faster than the bees can clean it up. Last week my friend was telling me about his plans to expand his bee business. After examining his hives this weekend, he is wondering if he will even be able to keep bees at all! We have had such a drought here that the recommended ground drenching chemicals can't get into the soil. It just runs off and the buried pupae are unaffected, no matter what is poured on them. He is planning to build 1/4" screen bottom boards and suspend the hives over water, in an attempt to break the breeding cycle. He hasn't used the Coumophos strips yet, (and who really wants to) but he will surely need to soon, I'm sure. We are in heavy nectar flow right now. This is a real convoluted mess. The hives are collapsing with young queens laying their hearts out in a honey flow. This is a voracious pest. It might be considered a 'minor pest' in it's country of origin, but they are also farming a different bee. I have not had any in my hives yet but his yards are only 5 or 6 miles away. I'm pretty sure we will be on the hot seat soon. His source of infestation came from a fella that spins the frames for him, about 50 miles away. He reports that the honey house of this guy is just 'crawling with maggots'. (only this year). He (probably) brought the bugs back in a truckload of wet supers, and the rest is a history story in the making. It looks like we are going to have a real battle on our hands soon. I will take a look at his yards myself and then I will be able to give you a firsthand report. Bob Bassett - Hoping it isn't as bad as it sounds. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 19:05:53 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeemanNick@AOL.COM Subject: Re: How varroa is introduced MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/1/00 10:55:50 AM !!!First Boot!!!, arl@Q7.NET writes: << Maybe the people are the ones with the Varroa? In clothing, equipment or on their persons. >> Is this a posibility that this can occur? And if so how long would they stay on there? My gut feeling is that could not happen. So is my gut feeling right? Nick Iowa land of corn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 23:51:49 -0400 Reply-To: Honeybees@inorbit.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Modified Dadant Hives In-Reply-To: <200005011405.KAA20261@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lloyd Spear wrote: "Unfortunately, when I changed it was to deeps, and now I know I should have changed to mediums." Lloyd, when I started keeping bees I used two deeps on one hive and three mediums on the other to see which way I thought was better. The three mediums are a lot lighter to lift but You also spend more time inspecting the brood chamber as You have to manipulate thirty frames as compared to twenty using three deeps. Last year I started three hives with a medium on the bottom and a deep above. That setup reminded Me of the depth of the Jumbo. If You were not going to move the hives would You still feel they were too heavy to use? Or do You think one Jumbo would not be large enough for a brood chamber in the Northeast? Only manipulating ten frames would be a lot faster than thirty. Thanks, Garry Libby Attleboro, Massachusetts, USA 41.56 N 71.17 W ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:03:30 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jonathan Cnaani Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm looking for a beekeeper who can help me to get a few pounds of fresh, but low protein pollen (such as Pine or Cottonwood pollen) for experiment in bees nutrition. Here in Tucson we missed the Pine blooming ... Thanks in advance Jonathan Cnaani ______________________________________________ Jonathan Cnaani, Ph.D. USDA-ARS Carl Hayden Bee Research Center 2000 E. Allen Rd. Tucson, AZ 85719-1596 USA Tel: 520-6706380 ext.237 Fax: 520-6706493 e-mail: jcnaani@tucson.ars.ag.gov ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 13:44:28 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: New Queen Behavior ... In-Reply-To: <200005011513.LAA22947@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > they both swarmed on 4/12 (19 Days ago) about 3 weeks ago... > ...Hive #1 was devoid of any sign of a queen. No Eggs, No Larvae, No > Capped Brood.... > Hive #2 had No Larvae or Capped Brood, but I did see eggs in a random > pattern on 2-3 frames (the eggs were well placed in the cells - > standing up in the bottom of the cell, and no evidence of multiple > eggs in a cell)... > ... Concerns are that the queen was not well mated (sporadic pattern). Standard advice where there is doubt about queens being present is to ask the bees. Place a frame with eggs and young larvae into the hive and see what the bees say... If they immediately draw queen cells, then they think they need a new queen or are not sure. Sometimes they'll tear them down later. In any case, they will have a queen within 3 weeks if the weather is good. Or you can take their cue and give them one -- after destroying the cells. If no occupied queen cells are drawn when eggs and larvae are given, then they think they are fine. Chances are they are right. As for the new queen, don't worry about the pattern until she gets established. Some books make a big deal about tight patterns, but as JB says in a recent post ( http://listserv.albany.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0003D&L=bee-l&P=R2832 ) that is just one of those myths. If lots of good brood develops, without too many misses, then don't worry. allen --- I am spending quite a bit of time on my diary at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ these days and add to it pretty well every day. Please visit if you are interested -- and write me if you have anything to add. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:56:00 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Fw: Old Beekeeper Meets a City Lawyer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Dave Green" wrote in message news:<20000501002719.24911.00000693@ng-cc1.aol.com>... > An old beekeeper, with weatherbeaten face, and bib overalls, driving a rusty > one-ton truck, collided with a new Mercedes driven by a pasty-faced guy in a > business suit. Both vehicles were wrecked; both drivers were shaken up, but > neither was hurt. > "You old hayseed! I'm gonna sue you for this! Do you know I'm an attorney?" > "Waall," drawled the old timer, "I see neither of us was hurt. There's no > need to be so upset." > Then he reached into his toolbox and pulled out a bottle of wine. "Lookee > here! This didn't even get broke...here's a bottle of my best elderberry > wine...doncha think we oughter celebrate." > "Here," he said, popping the cork, "I propose a toast to our guardian > angels." He handed the bottle to the young man. > "Well, okay, I guess." The young fellow had stopped breathing hard, but was > still shaking. "I suppose I could use some anyway." He took a long draw, then > handed back the bottle to the bee man. > The old timer recorked the bottle and put it away. "Aren't you gonna > drink?" asked the lawyer? > "Nope, I'll just wait for the police." > > Pollinator > http://hemingwaysouthcarolina.com > http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 08:53:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: capensis Comments: cc: crpost@TELKOMSA.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit welcome! garth is/was a rhodes univ. student who ir/regularly appears on the list...would appreciate more info on capensis/ south african beekeeping, is your/any newsletter(s) available electronically? just for the record and to bee redundant, this reply is to m.hale's response to a previous posting on the list: am not suggesting any importation of cape bees to the americas, merely implying that they may already have arrived by unknown accidental/incidental means (much as small hive beetle did from the same part of the world) and/or thelytoky could have been naturally selected for since the earliest apis introductions... indeed it's not only information technology that has made the "global village" real, just reading the past month's postings on the bee-net is illustrative of the "new world disorder", but since live with it we must (don't believe in eradication), we should be open to the possibilities still available to us via biodiversity...the demonstrable presence of thelytoky in non-cape honey bees and the potential it may have in mitigating some of the problems in apiculture worldwide should not go unexplored... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 09:07:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: ahb and capensis/bees and tnt Comments: cc: deelusbybeekeeper@up2me.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------Original Message------ From: "Mark Hale" To: tomas mozer Sent: May 1, 2000 10:04:15 AM GMT Subject: Thanks for the reply Hi Tomas It is great to see when articles I have writen are read and I get some form of responce. Just out of intrest sake Jerry Bromenshenk contacted me personaly and we intend to take my "TNT' bees futher in relation to mine detecting. I also had a responce for the Bee Scorpion from New Zeland by some one who is intrested in using it for bio-control of Veroa, as this person has had success in bio-control in similar insectes. I am no scientist, but belive that I am an exelent bee farmer and will help any one who is prepared to develop or improve the bee farming industry. I farm with Scutellata bees "killer bees', the Capensis bee is from the very southen tip of Africa and a great problem to our bees, I definatly would not sugest trying to use this bee for bio-control of the AHB as it will cause the same problem with your type of bees. If someone tries to get them into the US fight it with all you can. Due to tecnology the world has become a very small place, and it is simple and fast for use bee farmers to share and exchange knolage, and not keep it to ourselves. There is more than enough busness out there for all of us. I hate the terms bee keepers, hobiest of profecinal. I farm with my bees as they bring me a good income and this should apply to all of us. Wether we have one hive or ten thousand hives we should be profecinal in what we do. All that will change is the amount of time we spend with our bees. greetings, mark...it's too bad when responses go off-list with information that could be useful to all...would you mind if this was posted with my reply? hope to see you at apimondia, maybee! Hi Tomas You may submit my letter with pleasure. I some times feel my letters (e-mails) are not of general intrest, so do not submit them to BEE-L. Maybe I am wrong, I supose what is the correct thing to do is let the moderaters decide. All infomation should be shared as this will develope a better and stronger industry. I hope to meet you and as many fellow bee farmers in SA for Apimondia 2001. I can promise that all will receive personalised servise and are welcome to stay on after the expo with SA bee farmers. SA is a wonderful country and the wild life is incredible. __________________________reply__________________________________ am not suggesting any importation of cape bees to the americas, merely implying that they may already have arrived by unknown accidental/incidental means (much as small hive beetle did from the same part of the world) and/or thelytoky could have been naturally selected for since the earliest apis introductions... indeed it's not only information technology that has made the "global village" real, just reading the past month's postings on the bee-net is illustrative of the "new world disorder", but since live with it we must (don't believe in eradication), we should be open to the possibilities still available to us via biodiversity...the demonstrable presence of thelytoky in non-cape honey bees and the potential it may have in mitigating some of the problems in apiculture worldwide should not go unexplored... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 09:23:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Small Hive Beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >We have had such a drought here that the recommended ground drenching >chemicals can't get into the soil. It just runs off and the buried pupae are >unaffected, no matter what is poured on them. He is planning to build 1/4" >screen bottom boards and suspend the hives over water, in an attempt to break >the breeding cycle. He hasn't used the Coumophos strips yet, (and who really >wants to) but he will surely need to soon, I'm sure. We are in heavy nectar >flow right now. This is a real convoluted mess. The hives are collapsing with >young queens laying their hearts out in a honey flow. In a recent edition of "Bee Culture" a simple trap for the SHB was described. Around a hole in the bottom board the rim to a mason jar lid is cemented. Wire mesh of a correct size to allow beetles to pass is then attached and a jar with a little honey is screwed on. The beetles were found to have crawled down into the jar for the hive. The claim was that the hive was pretty empty of beetle after a very short time. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 09:23:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: fwd: Honeybee streaming video Comments: cc: gwh_nfl@hotmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cross-posted from sci.agriculture.beekeeping newsgroup fyi: We've just added some pretty interesting streaming video files to the Nashville Area Beekeepers Association page, courtesy of Jeff Harris of the USDA-ARS in Baton Rouge. http://personal.bellsouth.net/~beerich Jeff narrates a clip on the life cycle of the honey bee and varroa mite. Dr. Jose' Villa narrates a clip showing bees exhibiting resistant behavior to tracheal mites made by Villa and Dr. Bob Danka. All the footage is shot through a microscope and presented in RealVideo format. While you are there sign our guest book and let us know if there are any links we should add to our site - we're pretty far behind on that. Thanks -Barry Richards Cross Plains, TN ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 07:45:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Fw: Varroa control from sci.ag.bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Peter Edwards" ... I am rather surprised that the latest developments in varroa control do not seem to have reached this group yet. Briefly: Vita (Europe) Ltd announced at the Stoneleigh Convention that they are introducing Pherovar in November. This is a pheromone (delivered in a small plastic plug which is pinned in the hive) which stops varroa entering cells to breed. Apparently, they are also working on controlling AFB with a bacterium which attacks it. I have also learnt recently that research is underway to control varroa with pathogenic fungi; apparently other types of mites on crops grown in glasshouses are well controlled in this way at present and there seems to be no reason why varroa could not be similarly controlled. There seems to light at the end of the tunnel! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 09:53:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: fwd: Honey loan deficiency program to be reinstated? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cross-posted from sci.agriculture.beekeeping newsgroup fyi: We received a letter today about the possibility of the honey loan deficiency program being reinstated. All beekeepers should read this! Follow the link below to go directly to the article, once there if you want to return to the regular frames view click on the home button. You can print it out or I can send you a notepad version just send me your email address. http://www.draperbee.com/info/hot%20topics.htm Royal W. Draper Draper's Super Bee Apiaries, Inc. 800-233-4273 draperb@ptd.net www.draperbee.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 09:54:04 EDT Reply-To: mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Medhat Nasr Organization: Environ. Biology & Horticulture Subject: Re: Bt could diminish wax moths in west Comments: To: John Mitchell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi John, 1) Greatly reduced population of wax moths. 2) A greater need for pollinating insects and animals since moth and butterfly pollinators will be devastated. The above 2 benefits will depend on wax moth larvae feeding on the diet contaminated with Bt. Therefore, bees have to bring this Bt into hive to make this Bt available to the wax moth larvae. The second benefit is questionable . Flowers pollinated by moth or butterflies are specific flowers which are adapted to suit only these kind of bugs. For example, Moth blossoms will open only at night for moth pollination and often close during day time. Thus, some of these flowers are not visited by bees because they don't have the right shap and are not attractive. cheers Medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph.D. Research Scientist, Ontario Beekeepers' Association Dept. Environmental Biology University of Guelph Guelph, Ontario, Canada N1G 2W1 Tel: (519) 824-4120 Ext: 6243 Fax:(519)837-0442 e-mail: mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 11:00:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Hive sizes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Garry Libby, who is an excellent beekeeper in Eastern Mass., commented on the potential disadvantage of using three mediums as a brood chamber. He also wondered if one Modified Dadant hive body would hold enough honey to allow the bees to over winter in the Northeast. Yes, I suppose having thirty frames to go through when examining the brood nest is more work than twenty (deep and a medium or two deeps), and certainly more work than twelve (Modified Dadant). However, how often would one really have to examine all brood frames? For example, my sole brood nest setup is a deep and a medium, with the medium on the bottom. Right now I am in the midst of finding 40 over-wintered queens to replace them with year 2000 queens in my hives I will use for comb honey production. I find those queens by first putting a queen excluder between the two hive bodies, waiting at least 4 days, and then looking only in the hive body that has eggs. I really don't look inside the other hive body at all. To my way of thinking right now (and my thinking is different at age 60 than it was at age 50), three mediums would be worth the disadvantages having to do with higher cost and more frames. As to using only a Modified Dadant (and Dadant also still makes frames as well as foundation) for over-wintering here in the Northeast, I have no doubt that the 90 pounds of honey in such a single chamber would be more than enough for bees to over winter on. In fact, I have done just that on many occasions. However, there is another consideration and that is swarming. As I get older, and hopefully wiser, I keep finding more reasons to listen to the old timers. Often they are right in their advice, although their reasoning may be doubtful. For example, for many years I have railed against the custom of over wintering in two deeps, maintaining that a deep and a medium provides more than enough honey, and pointing out that manipulating two deeps is work that is too heavy. The old timers say that the added honey from two deeps is necessary...and they are wrong about that. However, they might be right on the frame space required! Almost two solid weeks of rain in mid-late April, combined with several days of 60-70 degree temperatures in early April, have led to severe swarming problems in my area of the country. Sure, my deep and medium setup had more than enough honey for over wintering and maintaining the brood expansion, but left little room for error in timing and I am now facing real swarming pressure. Another medium of brood space would have at least somewhat relieved the pressure on the brood nest. So perhaps a good reason for over wintering in two deeps is that swarm control becomes less critical in springs such as this one. When I over wintered in only a Modified Dadant I had significant problems with swarming as the brood nest was just too small. I tried to combat that by using a Jumbo and a matching super (the super on the bottom), and that worked. However, I gave it up as I could not buy more Jumbos or matching supers, and I didn't want to run both Langstroth and Jumbos. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 11:18:57 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Winter Losses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been hearing some awful figures for some beekeepers in northern NY/New England for winter loss. Is it true? How is the winter loss situation throughout the northland? Dave Green Hemingway, SC The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 11:58:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Modified Dadant Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/2/00 6:42:02 AM, LibBEE@EMAIL.MSN.COM writes: << Last year I started three hives with a medium on the bottom and a deep above. >> Hi Gary, Has this been successful for you? How did they overwinter, and did you feed much? Please report your rate of success because i would love to go to this system to avoid lifting another heavy deep. Cheers, John ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 12:25:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Winter Losses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit South Eastern CT USA 20% losses 1/2 the hives treated with apistan by 1 September the rest later to catch the fall flow. No treatment for tracheal mites just selecting from the survivors. Due to the heat and drought the hives went into winter in smaller clusters. Much of my losses occurred right around 20 Jan when the temps went from 60 deg to 5 deg overnight. I found deadouts with 2 small clusters inside instead of one big one. 2 of the hives were kind of wimpy and because I couldn't determine the cause I did not combine them with good hives and they died out. This year I will have 1/2 the hives treated for varroa by 15 Aug and am going to try the formic gel packs. First apple blossom opened today. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 12:53:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Winter loss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Green asked "How is the winter loss situation throughout the northland?" I am afraid the horror stories you have heard have been right. Very, very well known and competent beekeepers have had terrible losses. On the other hand, others (including myself) have had normal experience. While there is some dispute about this, I think the common thread among those with bad losses may be relatively late treatment, so that hives are unable to go into the winter with bees raised after Varroa has been controlled and strips have been removed from the hives. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 13:19:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Winter Losses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Did you treat for tracheal mites? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 10:16:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "J.F. Hensler" Subject: Re: Bt could diminish wax moths in west Comments: To: John Mitchell John Mitchell wrote: John: Do you have a list of which Nat. Forests are under consideration? Skip Skip & Christy Hensler THE ROCK GARDEN Newport, Wash. http://www.povn.com/rock ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 13:39:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Bt could diminish wax moths in west MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Skip wrote: <> Sure do. Fact Sheet Final Environmental Impact Statement Douglas-fir Tussock Moth Purpose: Release of a Final EIS for Douglas-fir Tussock Moth (DFTM) is planned for April 21, 2000. The Record of Decision will be issued during the week of May 22, 2000. Areas of Impact: Nine national forests in eastern Oregon and Washington; Colville, Fremont, Malheur, Ochoco, Okanogan, Umatilla, Wallowa-Whitman, Wenatchee, and Winema. Background: The Douglas-fir Tussock Moth (DFTM) is a native defoliator of Douglas-fir and true firs trees. It is known to cause significant defoliation and tree mortality. Once significant defoliation occurs, it is too late to respond with any short-term management option. The last widespread DFTM outbreak was in 1974, affecting approximately 700,000 acres in eastern Oregon and Washington. More localized outbreaks occurred in the Blue Mountains in 1989. Outbreaks tend to occur every 7 to 13 years, lasting 2-4 years. Historically only 15 to 20 percent of areas susceptible to infestations have actually reached outbreak levels. A Douglas-fir Tussock Moth"early warning system" was developed over 20 years ago and was designed to inform managers of potential outbreaks early enough so decisions could be made about what action the agency might take to minimize impacts. This early warning system indicates that in 2000-2003 eastern Oregon and Washington could experience significant outbreaks of the DFTM. The proposed short-term treatment is aerial spraying with a natural virus (TM-BioControl) that is specific to the DFTM, or a biological agent (Btk, Bacillus thuringiensis var. kurstaki). Spraying does not completely eliminate the native insect, but can prevent significant defoliation and undesirable impacts within the treated areas when application is done in a timely manner. There is some concern for public health. The bodies of the larvae and the cocoons are covered with irritating hairs. Exposure to these hairs can cause welts, rashes and other reactions in many people. About one-third of the people exposed to the larvae have some level of allergic reaction. Treatment under the action alternatives would only occur on lands where through additional monitoring tussock moth defoliation is present and outbreak levels of larvae have been verified. Alternatives being considered in the Final EIS are: · No Action Alternative ? Would allow the anticipated outbreak to run its natural course without treatment. With this alternative, the potential of widespread defoliation and mortality exists. · Proposed Action Alternative ? Protects approximately 628,000 acres identified as areas of concern. These areas include habitat for fish and wildlife species, campgrounds and recreation sites, scenic vistas, and municipal watersheds. · Expanded Protection Alternative ? Protects the areas of concern in the Proposed Action and, in addition, expands the treatment area to include approximately 2 million additional acres of Douglas-fir and true fir host type where forest products would lose significant value, cause significant visual change, or cause increased fuel buildup. · TM-BioControl Only Alternative ? Protects the same acres that are in the Proposed Action, but only uses the insecticide TM-BioControl. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 12:46:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Winter Losses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Pollinator@AOL.COM asked, "How is the winter loss situation throughout the northland?" I've been hearing a lot of horror stories too. Personally, I'm in the 20% ballpark and consider myself fortunate. Half or more is not uncommon in NY. And this from folks who are claiming never to have had such bad losses. Many are taking it in stride, planning on rebuilding slowly or not at all, figuring with prices as they are that downsizing may be an opportunity to cut costs, work less and sell stockpiles at hopefully better prices. Good deals are to be had on used equipment. Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 12:54:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Winter loss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" LloydSpear@EMAIL.MSN.COM wrote, "... I think the common thread among those with bad losses may be relatively late treatment...." Well, I was later than I'd care to admit with my fall treatments. Strips went in later than 10/15, but out over Thanksgiving weekend. I had anticipated losses much higher than I realized. I cannot guess what would be the cause of my relatively unscathed winter, other than my summer vacation bringing back some of the luck of the Irish. Lloyd and I are in close proximity, but others nearby experienced heavy losses. I cannot guess why there were such varying results. Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 13:31:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Winter Losses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Did you treat for tracheal mites? No treatments other than purchasing "resistant" stock/queens. /Aa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 14:01:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: In Search Of: vacated hornets' and yellow jackets' nests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This came to me in a rather circuitous route. Please respond directly to the author (Hornetboy0000@aol.com) as he is not a BEE-L subscriber. >>From: Hornetboy0000@aol.com >>Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:26:06 EDT >>Subject: Question: >> >>Hello! I have been collecting hornets' nests for over half of my life now. >>I am willing to pay anyone money to ship me vacated hornets' and >>yellow jackets' nests which are unusually large and in good condition. I live >>in Tulsa, Oklahoma. If the entomology department can't, then perhaps you can >>refer me to someone who can do this for me? Please keep me posted on any >>findings. Thanks! >> >>Sincerely, >>William T. Prouty ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 11:54:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Bt could diminish wax moths in west MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Medhat, Thank you for your observations, and of course, you are correct—butterflies and moths are specialists and not in direct competition, on most plants, with honeybees. I knew the supposition was a reach (that beekeepers would be affected). But I also feel that the information concerning the possible devastation of a vast order of pollinators was significant enough that beekeepers should be made aware of it. I find when I am working my hives or driving around in my pickup with bee gear in the back, people often approach and ask questions, so I feel—whether I want it or not—cast in the role of an educator. If the public in the Northwest suddenly notices there are no butterflies or moths in the fields, local beekeeps may be fielding questions about it. I worry about honeybees getting the blame for the afflictions of other pollinators because a great many people probably don't know that bees, butterflies and moths feed on different forage plants. If beekeepers have accurate information about what is happening to the rest of the pollinator populations, they will be able to disabuse people of any nascent prejudices they may hold against honeybees. Cheers, John ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 13:48:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Juandefuca Subject: Re: How varroa is introduced This lifespan of varroa has been posted on several forums and bee info. Having questioned pertinent answers , The following was said : Varroa live for 5 months. Varroa can live for 5 days without the host.Varroa die when subject to freezing temperatures. And there was more , but I don't remember because it is of no value. My own observations Are : Varroa died within 3 hours in a gass jar. Varroa died in 24 hours in a glass jar. I am still not further ahead. Varroa can walk relatively fast. Varroa are introduced by drones is my definite observation, stray workers are also the culprits. Picking swarms is a sure bet for mite pick up, unless you do NOT combine and treat them in a quarantine environment, If you can.It is very doubtful that people transport mites on them unless it is on purpose. The spread of varroa is determined by the lifespan when it involved long distances such as the americas versus NZ or Australia. One could say that varroa travels with bees which travel undetected in cargo or in nooks and crannies of ships and aircraft.If the information of the lifespan of 5 days without a host is correct than the mite cannot survive over a longer duration of travel. That leaves the introduction to aircraft provided it is on bee which sits in nooks and crannies. That raised the question how cold it is in cargo holds of aircraft and how long it takes to kill bee and mite under thses conditions. There is a heck of a lot we do not know . May somebody comes up with another plausible answer. catfish ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 07:40:23 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ron Law Subject: Re: How varroa is introduced MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In NZ an official who had been out in th efield arrived back in the office to discover a bee caught in his clothing. Upon inspection a varroa mite was found. BeemanNick@AOL.COM wrote: > In a message dated 5/1/00 10:55:50 AM !!!First Boot!!!, arl@Q7.NET writes: > > << Maybe the people are the ones with the Varroa? In clothing, equipment or > on their persons. >> > > Is this a posibility that this can occur? And if so how long would they stay > on there? My gut feeling is that could not happen. So is my gut feeling > right? > > Nick > Iowa land of corn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 15:24:21 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: Re: Winter Losses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, Dave Green asks about winter losses in New England. Yes it is true. Several local hobbiest beekeepers who I know personally have been wiped out. Another large commercial beekeeper in Vermont sent me my deopsit back on year 2000 nucs because all of his honey producing colonies were wiped out. He suspected the V-mites were getting resitant to Apistan last summer. I am guessing that there is more than one cause. Rumor has it that there is a resurgance in T-mites here, I just do not know if this is true. I have yet to ask the local guys if they had the dead outs tested for T-mites or not. MWBATR, (Meanwhile back at the ranch), I am ever so greatful to have continued with T-mite treatment despite claims of tolerance for the little buggers. I have keeped grease patties on during the winter and just switched to cocktail size napkins soaked in cooking oil. They are simply placed on the top bars of the brood chamber. I am told that the napkins are a good way to test for hygenic bees. If they get rid of the napkin in a few days they are hygenic. I will go back to grease patties if they do not disappear soon. I have not been back inside the hives to check on them since they were placed there because the weather has been cold. The next few days should tell the tale. I lost only one hive but I believe this was due to my accidentaly killing the queen. The hive was doing well until about 2 weeks ago when I found the population dwinled to laying workers. T-mite loss? Maybe, but I still think I did it. By the way, the local beekeepers who were wiped out live with in a bee flight of each other. Ernie Gregoire "Beekeeper," definition= partially brave, partially excentric Grist Mill Apiary Canaan, New Hampshire, USA ------------------------------------- 05/02/99 15:24:21 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 15:55:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Dragonflies in the apiary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Last summer, I noticed dragonflies hovering and hunting over the hives at dusk at one site where I keep bees. They were maintaining a 20 to 30 foot altitude. The hives are in a clearing next to my relative’s home and the bees commonly fly straight up to go over the trees or the house. I spoke to a dragonfly researcher today. Dragonflies are very efficient insect hunters. They breed in wetlands, but often leave them to hunt elsewhere. Dragonflies, and especially a suborder she referred to as the “darners” are attracted to swarms and masses of flying insects, much the way predator fish are attracted to schools of smaller fish. And this is why you might find them flying over your apiaries. The number of bees they take is insignificant (judging from the honey production of those hives last summer), and I welcome their presence as they consume huge numbers of mosquitoes and flies—a great beneficial for your garden and yard. I’ll point the dragonflies out to my relatives this summer and explain what they do to pest species, which will be just another good reason to keep honeybees in the yard. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 17:29:01 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Winter Losses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 5/2/00 4:35:43 PM, GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM writes: << Dave Green asks about winter losses in New England. >> Lost one hive (of 7) that i discovered dwindling under the rule of laying workers. The queen was an artificially inseminated Carniolan. I am located in eastern Massachusetts. Judging from the hive contents, part of the cluster starved to death (lots of bees hunkered down in cells wth their butts sticking out). Found the queen's corpse in a small mass of dead bees. Plenty of honey—both leftover from last fall and newly gathered this spring. Beecrofter wrote: <> This diagnosis is most likely for me too. I never suspected a drone-laying hive could result from winter starvation. I thought they all lived or died in the winter, and that's it. It's a great lesson in how all the books—beginner, advanced, and reference—I studied have oversimplified the possibilities of bee biology a bit. You can't count your winter losses by how many hives are collecting pollen. On the other hand, this is the first instance that I have heard of bees overwintering in multiple clusters. I don't mean to doubt you beecrofter, but has anybody else observed this behavior, and has anybody ever suggested a management technique to avert it? Isn't it equally pluasible that the bees somehow contracted their cluster into two separate pieces when the cold hit, perhaps orienting toward honey stores in different locales in the hive? Once separated, if one cluster used up the stores in its part of the hive, it would starve beyond the reach of the other cluster. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 23:48:03 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Re: Winter Losses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all, forgive me if this message is taken as a neurotic cry of beware!! I am not really aware of who your harvests develop in the States. But I ask the question, having seen this trait before here in France- Winter losses caused by what?- at least we had a clue with the problems relating to the Sunflower harvests falling off, coupled with the inability of the colonies to pass through to the Spring.Varroa?doesn't help at all. It has now been proven that applications of Imidacloprid as seed treatment has a devastating effect on the neural system of A.m. The losses increased at a rate in proportion to the land treated- and its ability to remain active in soils long after its application, plus the resulting metabolites being highly toxic to bees. What type of bee activity did the bees show whilst working your harvests- efficient nectar collection?,ability to work in all positions or just about 30° from the horizontal. OK, you might have a bad case of Acarine, or/and resistant V.j.- I hope so! But I f you have Imidacloprid in the area- investigate very carefully.It must be stated that Bayer are of course in total disagreement with the independent results that are building up against their product. The Netherlands have banned the use in open field situations since 01.01. 2000. There are BIG problems in France, and other European countries. Give me your thoughts- polite please. Regards Peter. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 14:47:24 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Winter Losses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Resistant queens?" HaHa! Menthol in August and Grease the year around. Need I say more? George ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 18:26:52 -0400 Reply-To: Honeybees@inorbit.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Winter Losses? In-Reply-To: <200005022033.QAA16818@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I lost five colonies out of twelve. We sent a sample to Beltsville back in Feb. and the result was Tracheal mite and Nosema. The bees had so much honey back in Oct. that they would not take syrup. Also, four colonies were Buckfast bees that I have never treated for T-mites. The other hive was a hive started with a package of Italians, they were not treated as I had read that it was rare for a first year colony to have a problem with T-mites. I'm glad Formic Gel is here, I already have a case as I heard the supply was going to be tight for a few months. I learned a valuable lesson. Garry Libby Attleboro, Massachusetts, USA 41.56 N 71.17 W ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 10:31:39 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: NZ quarantine backed with fines, jail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > And a question for New Zealand beekeepers: How far across is Cook Strait? Cook Strait, the waterway between the North and South Islands of New Zealand, is about 22km (13.6 miles) as the crow would fly (!) between the closest pieces of land. That is, in fact, to an island off the South Island... The Cook Strait can be a pretty inhospitable stretch of water, with erratic weather and currents. It is travelled daily by passenger/vehicle/rail ferries on a scheduled basis. There is no sense of 'customs' on either side, or any obvious agricultural security provisions currently in place. Both islands are, after all, New Zealand... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 17:02:22 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Fw: Varroa control with Pheremones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Hugo Thone" wrote in message news:<390EE035.D3B033A7@se.bel.alcatel.be>... go to http://www.beekeeping.com/vita/pherovar.htm -- Hugo Thone do bee do bee do ... IBM GLOBAL SERVICES (\ email : htho@se.bel.alcatel.be F.Wellesplein 1 {|||8- phone : (32) 3 240 94 52 B-2018 Antwerp (/ fax : (32) 3 240 99 49 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:58:23 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Winter loss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd, I reply to you because I know of your ability. These winter losses that Dave green asked about seem to be a classic case of loss by tracheal mites. After all, England lost 95% of ALL their bees back in 1920 by tracheal mites (we know that now). Because the tracheal mite is invisible to the human eye, a great many beekeepers just ASSUME their bees do have tracheal mites and hence don't treat. Further, until formic acid was approved, the only approved chemical for tracheal mites was menthol, but menthol HAD to be used in July or August in New England and beekeepers were not going to foul up their honey crop by using menthol then, so they did not use anything. Diana Sammataro proved that grease patties CONTROLLED the population (not killed) of tracheal mites so that colonies did well, BUT grease patties were labor intensive in that they must be used many months of the year; so again beekeepers did not bother to treat for tracheal mites. Many beekeepers simply do not know how to dissect a bee to examine the trachea under a microscope, nor do they have a microscope in their back pocket, so they don't TEST for tracheal mites. I dissect my bees, go to the local high school, give the science teacher some honey, and examine the trachea's with a school microscope. If I can do it when I am disabled by strokes, then everybody else can do it too. Always having 100-200 colonies, I have NEVER lost as colony to tracheal mites and rarely lose a colony in the winter; but all my colonies get menthol on August 15th near Washington, DC and all have grease patties from April to December. The tracheal NEVER lives in bee BROOD, but ONLY lives in the trachea of an adult bee and STRANGLES the bee to death almost always in January or early February The classic symptoms are the bees look fine in the fall, but dwindle away in November and December finally leaving just a handful size cluster with the queen dead in the hive, but lots of honey stores present. Nine times out of ten, if tracheal mite tests are done on these dead bees, you will find trachea just blocked by tracheal mites. Horrible way to die, strangling for breath. Lloyd, people look up to you, so help them by encouraging them to treat for tracheal mites, and teach them about tracheal mite infestation. I can't do it from Maryland, because New England people are engrossed that their winters are tougher than mine; but bees have survived for thousands of years in upper Canada, Alaska, and now the Russian bees (a stock of Carniolans) are from Siberia near Vladivostok in Siberia. COLD does NOT kill healthy bees - God saw to that! - But cold will sure help kill sick bees. I sure hope you are coming to EAS 2000, so we can sit down and solve all the bee problems in this world. I keep trying, but I need help! I hope Beecrofter, John Mitchell, and Dave Green read this. I hope I have helped. George ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 20:11:35 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Modified Dadant Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, I have written about mediums a good bit and there is an article about them on www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ click the lower right image I switched to ALL Illinois (mediums) 16 years for a SINGLE reason - to have just ONE SIZE FRAME in every box on the colony. It had nothing to do with weight then because I was only 64 and still strong; but I was sick of never having the right size frame and had to leave a hive of bees open while I went to my honey house to locate a frame. Frankly, I wish I had started in ALL ILLINOIS 68 years ago when I got my first bees in1933. As I teach beekeeping today, quite a few are starting in all Illinois. Out west, they are called Westerlies and that is what many, many people use. I hope I have helped. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 20:26:22 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Winter Losses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Best winter I've had in years. Less than 10% loss. Many hives have bees comming out the top, bottom, and everywhere else. Actual winter loss was about 3%, but this spring has been rough on the bees. The colonies raised many bees last fall. Colonies heavy at the end of August, were light the first week of October. There were whole combs of eggs and larvae in the middle of October, when the queens should have shut down. It bothered me to feed 35 drums of syrup last fall, but I'd do that anytime to replace honey turned into bees. There's three things right around the corner now. Dandelions, Apples, and swarm cells. David L. Green wrote: > I've been hearing some awful figures for some beekeepers in northern > NY/New England for winter loss. Is it true? > > How is the winter loss situation throughout the northland? > > Dave Green Hemingway, SC > The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 20:29:34 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bees on allotments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My "home" apiary is on my allotment. It is in a corner of the site and is next to a pony paddock. I have also gone through the hedge and (with permission) have had bees on the adjacent railway embankment since 1984. Originally I asked the Parish Council for permission to keep bees on the allotment and after consulting the runes they decided beekeeping was "horticultural" and therefore permissible. I didn't know it then, but one of the councillors with her husband ran nearly 100 hives at one time. The only complaint I have received from other allotment holders was that my bees weren't doing a good enough job on their beans. When I became Parish Clerk I took the precaution of alloting myself also the next door allotment as a "spacer" between neighbours. A son of the beekeeping councillor (now dead) has the next allotment down. I keep only one or two colonies on that site and they are well screened. The highly visible WBC between my shed and greenhouse ( but not too close) is merely a frightener for raiders and a sacrificable fuel dump for my petrol driven gardening tools. A chap I know keeps his bees without permission on his allotment on the Isle of Portland in a roofless shed. He planted a cupressus hedge next to the path. As a howling gale is considered a quiet day on Portland they probably appreciate the extra shelter. His neighbours obviously know about it and don't complain. They just take a break when he is working his bees. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:07:52 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Winter loss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am still convinced as was Brother Adam that resistance to tracheal mites can be selected for. A 20% loss is acceptable to me and is easily recovered from by pulling a few frames here and there from the survivors which also helps with swarm control. If my losses mount to a leval higher than I can accept I will resort to treatments or preventatives. If 95 % of the bees perished when acarine first came around then I want my bees from the 5% that survived. I am not convinced that the solution comes from a packet a strip a crisco can or the laboratory. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:47:54 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: New Queen Behavior ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Ralston wrote: > Where was the new queen during those 6 weeks? If she were in the > hive, and mated, why wasn't she laying? I have mentioned on this list in the past that I have never had a new queen start laying before 4 weeks and often 5 weeks or more. It is not unusual at all. But, I usually get a little nervous waiting on a new queen. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 22:10:14 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: Winter Losses? Comments: To: Honeybees@inorbit.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Garry Libby wrote: > > I lost five colonies out of twelve. > We sent a sample to Beltsville back in Feb. and the result was Tracheal mite > and Nosema. The bees had so much honey back in Oct. that they would not take > syrup. Also, four colonies were Buckfast bees that I have never treated for > T-mites. Garry, I have got a 400 power microscope which i test with at home and i use a 30power jewelers glass in the field. Disecting is hardest part of testing for Tracheal mites. Even the best testers can't get each bee disected right but after while you get 50% plus. Nosema is a easy field test after you get used to pulling the bee apart. Get your state bee inspector to teach you the methods. Our state bee inspector thought me. I have NEVER made a field diagnosis which the microscope didn't confirm later. Light TM infestations are harder to detect. I have seen TM in other beekeepers bees with amounts up to 200 mites in a bee. he said the only treatment he was doing was menthol cough drops. Haven't tried those! I wish i could say the Buckfast bee was the answer but like George i don't believe they are. I used all buckfast for four years and allways had to treat. Whenever i quit treating they started getting TM again. With the equipment i have got there was no need to wait for them to die. I have heard they got new frozen drone sperm in Texas since i tried so really can't say how they are now. Only relating my observations from late 80's. The best treatment i have ever came across for Tracheal mites is from a article in American bee Journal-Feb.1997 page 138 by Don jackson. Menthol in the packets only worked in Missouri when (like George Imirie said)was put on in August. I started in the spring of 1997 using Don Jacksons method but the weaker version and have used only the formula he gives. I believe i have totally eradicated TM using his method. I have yet, to find ANY TM in my spring testing this year. I used patties prior to spring 97. The article says the method is legal and used by many commercial operators in the north and i have found NOT temperature dependent like Menthol in bags. I had 2% winter loss last winter(2 hives per 100) but we had a mild winter and i fed quite a bit of syrup. My 2000 honey season started last fall. We have a wonderful flow going right now in Missouri. I have been putting honey supers on all week and should be done by Friday. Most other beekeepers are spliting bees. If you snooze in beekeeping you the lose honey crop. If any Drought area midwest beekeepers are reading. Get those honey supers on as we have had the driest April on record and if we don't get rain everything will be burnt up in a month. i have looked at corn which won't even start due to lack of moisture in the soil. I believe the sweet clover will grow to about 18-24" and then bloom and then die like in 1998. 1998 was the worst honey season i have had since keeping bees in Missouri. In the drought of 87(sound like old timer!) we fed bees July thru Dec.. BIG EXPENSE and many beekeepers didn't make a honey crop. Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 22:10:03 -0500 Reply-To: lkrengel@mc.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: Winter loss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Winter losses seem rather bad here in Northern Illinois and Sothern Wisconsin. I am a small time beekeeper and lost 4 of ten colonies. However, a local commercial beekeeper lost 800 of 1300 colonies. For him, it is a race to get all the equipment back into production. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 23:17:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Green Subject: Re: Winter Losses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 19% dead ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 15:05:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jim & Sue Subject: Re: How varroa is introduced MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick Your gut feeling is correct....... People do not carry varroa! Bees do! Jim ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 04:04:05 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: Winter loss Comments: To: lkrengel@mc.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larry Krengel wrote: > However, a local > commercial beekeeper lost 800 of 1300 colonies. Larry, If varroa or tracheal mites are not the problem i am really surprised as when you make a living from bees those kind of losses don't usually happen with a mild winter. Old queens get a commercial operator every once in a while. Did he say what he thought caused the problem? Bob Harrison Missouri U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 05:28:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Winter Losses and Cook Strait Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >OK, you might have a bad case of Acarine, or/and resistant V.j.- I hope >so! But I f you have Imidacloprid in the area- investigate very >carefully. In Prince Edward Island just north of the area in question: winter losses on 900 hives: about 5% no acarine mites no varroa mites (detected so far, hope hope) plenty of Imidacloprid spraying, but all on potatoes which are not visited Another thing: regarding the Cook Strait The Northumberland Strait is 8 miles at the narrowest but generally about 12 miles as well. There is even a bridge. It has proved an effective barrier for several years now. IMHO drones drifting across a strait that wide is not much of a threat. Human movement and most likely beekeeper movement is the biggest danger. Perhaps Trevor will comment on the Torres Strait protecting Australia, as I know he is involved with that protection. Not near as much human movement there. Stan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 06:53:21 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Maysoon Shukur Subject: Don's method Comments: To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for some of us that are new bee keepers, can you please share this method with us? I have 3 hives for the first time. 2 are new colonlys started from nuc from Erine's Apiary and the 3 is a very strong colony that was split with 2 queens run together for about a week. Both haves are 2 body deep with 2 suppers on each. only the nuc has to draw out the comb in the 2nd body along with the suppers. Strong colony needs to draw out the suppers. I wonder if I should move 1 supper on to the stronger colony? Thanks!! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 06:59:57 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Winter losses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While my losses were a minimum, those around me had huge losses. The speculation on why is only that - speculation. At least in my neck of the woods, the big losses seem to be from resistant varroa mites. Beekeepers are telling me there are thousands of mites on the bottom boards of dead colonies. So, the tracheal mite theory isn't so for my area. And about treating for tracheal mite. I haven't used grease for several years, and I stopped using menthol ten years ago. Instead, I rely on tm resistant bees. Ha you say! There aint no such thing. Well, there is. Scientists have shown this resistance. George, do you remember the talk as EAS several years ago where they compared TM resistance among various stocks of bees? They showed how Buckfast and Webster had significant resistance to tracheal mite. We all know the story of the Buckfast bee, but what of Webster. Kirk Webster began, in the late 80's, to raise queens from his best colonies, and winter them in 4-frame nucs. This was the height of tm deaths. It wasn't long before his tm mite problems vanished. Just by breeding from his best he was able to develop a strain of bees very resistant to tm. So, what I'm saying is don't rely on a bandaid approach. Resistance is the best way to go for tracheal mite. Now varroa is a different bug all together. Until resistance is developed, chemical control is the only help - sad to say. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 07:07:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Winter loss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" George Imerie wrote: "... grease patties from April to December...." This period for treatment is not what is recommended by the researcher credited with the original work, Diana Sammataro. Diana spoke at the 1999 summer seminar hosted by the Southern Adirondack Beekeepers Association and I questioned her at length about her work. Subsequent studies showed that grease patties can be used in fall/winter (when the bees are confined and clustered) to keep t-mites sufficiently in check. Her recommendation is for grease patties for fall and winter, which should keep the dynamics of the t-mite population low enough so that grease patties in spring and summer should not be required. T-mite populations that build up in non-treatment periods will be checked in the fall when treatment resumes. Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 06:53:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Winter Losses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM wrote: ... "The best treatment i have ever came across for Tracheal mites is from a article in American bee Journal-Feb.1997 page 138 by Don jackson...." Enlighten us, please. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 20:29:42 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Apis mellifera capensis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From mailings to this list over a long time I gather that Apis mellifera capensis, the Cape Honeybee can take over colonies of Apis mellifera scutellata, the African honeybee, (known as AHB in the US) when they are juxtaposed. Can anybody tell me whether Amc will mate with Ams in these circumstances? If they will not, perhaps they should be regarded as a separate species rather than a separate race. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 07:32:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Varroa control with Pheremones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > go to > > http://www.beekeeping.com/vita/pherovar.htm Well, this is fine and good, 12 bee-bullets that list the pros for Pherovar TM. What I want to know, having never seen and only recently heard of Pherovar TM is: what is it, how is it used and how does it work. So far all I've seen is "a pheromone (delivered in a small plastic plug which is pinned in the hive) which stops varroa entering cells to breed." I'd hoped for more from Vita's web page. Max, you listening? Can you tell us more? Aaron Morris - dreaming silver bullets! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:00:54 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Durk Ellison Subject: Fw: CD-ROM Apitherapy of the Standing Commission of Apitherapy of APIMONDIA Comments: To: "BIBBA-L (The Bee Improvements and Bee Breeders' Association)" , "Apinet (Beekeeping education extension network)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roch Domerego" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 2:09 PM Subject: CD-ROM Apitherapy of the Standing Commission of Apitherapy of APIMONDIA > Dear Sir, Dear Mrs, > > The Standing Commission of Apitherapy of APIMONDIA is glad to inform you of > the imminent release of the official CD-ROM on apitherapy, > translated into 3 languages : English, French and Spanish. You will find all > the information, pictures and table of contents on the Virtual Beekeeping > Gallery website : www.beekeeping.com > > Subscribing now to the CD-ROM : > > - You will support the Commission of Apitherapy to carry on its > humanitarian aid in developing countries, > - Apimondia will receive royalties, > > and finally : > > - Thanks to you Apitherapy will experience a worldwide boom. > > Thank you for your support. > > Apitherapylly yours, > > > Theodore Cherbuliez > President of the Standing Commission of Apitherapy > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 14:29:57 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: QUB Subject: Re: Varroa control with Pheremones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Yes Max, I must agree with Aaron. Moreover, I cant find anything in the literature which is specific to varroa of this nature. Perhaps you are using similar pheromones related to other mite species ? Since the Phenovar trade mark was registered in Jan 2000 and the patent is now pending can you not tell us more, where is the scientific proof that Phenovar TM works? Phil > > > > http://www.beekeeping.com/vita/pherovar.htm > > Well, this is fine and good, 12 bee-bullets that list the pros for Pherovar > TM. What I want to know, having never seen and only recently heard of > Pherovar TM is: what is it, how is it used and how does it work. So far all > I've seen is "a pheromone (delivered in a small > plastic plug which is pinned in the hive) which stops varroa entering cells > to breed." I'd hoped for more from Vita's web page. Max, you listening? > Can you tell us more? > > Aaron Morris - dreaming silver bullets! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "The problem with being on the cutting edge is that you occasionally get sliced from time to time...." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 08:49:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: Winter loss Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Winter losses here in Minnesota have been mostly low due to our very mild winter but some beekeepers have had heavy losses. In these cases they usually treated as usual for varroa with apistan but didn't get good control of the mites due to apparent fluvalinate resistance. So where varroa treatment worked the bees wintered well but where it didn't beekeeper's had heavy winter losses for the most part. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 09:08:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Yuuki Metreaud Subject: winter losses Hello all, I am new here and am following with great interest the discussion on winter losses. I live in upstate NY and have kept bees for 8 years. I have primarily used Buckfast and Italian. I have also collected some feral swarms which I did not requeen because I was interested in their performance. I also figured that they must have some level of tolerance/resistance to TM to have survived. I have never lost a Buckfast colony to TM whereas my Italian colonies have never failed to succumb to the mite. My fellow beekeepers who all kept Italians also experienced 80-90% losses. They have now switched to trying buckfast at my urging and have been very pleased. The only Italians that I have had good results with against TM are the Survivor Italians form York and the All americans from Weaver. However they have never performed up to the standards of the Buckfast. The one point on which I have been sorely dissapointed with the Buckfast is their Spring buildup. Based on all of this experience (which is really not much), and all of the literary research that I have done concerning resisitance/tolerance to mites, I am a firm believer that the answer to TM is not medication but Resitant Stock. I also believe that while it is necesarry to treat for Vj now, the answer to the Varroa problem will also be resistant stock. In reply to George's comment "resistant queen Ha ha" I find it difficult to believe that someone with so much beekeeping experience could put aside the importance and sheer reality that this sort of things exist. Even before large scale modern commercial beekeeping operations have cropped up, honeybees have lived with pest as have all living organisms. The only way that they have survived to this day is by being naturally selected for by the harsh laws of nature. In many ways I believe that modern beekeeping with its severe emphasis on production and capital has done Apis a bad turn. We have bred the honeybee for specific traits and left them vulnerable to diseases. This is a phenomenon that is commonly seen with agriculture and livestock breeding. Sincerely, Yuuki --HAA06725.957355258/earlham.edu-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 10:39:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Winter loss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > I am still convinced as was Brother Adam that resistance to tracheal mites >can be selected for. A 20% loss is acceptable to me and is easily recovered >from by pulling a few frames here and there from the survivors which also >helps with swarm control. For there to be resistance there must be a genetic trait present in the current population that will allow the bee to survive when its beathing tubes are clogged with parasites. IF the trait is present AND the trait does not carry with it additional negative traits (such as abscounding) then and only then can a breeding program eliminate other controls. One must also remember that we are only talking about tolerance, unless the trait found kills the mite. You also have to consider that when breeding a better Bee, you may at the very same time be breeding a better mite. Evolution does not look ahead. If a parasite mutates and in two generations kills the entire population of hosts that is just the way it is. Multi-species extinction seems to have been around a long time before beekeepers. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 10:36:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Winter loss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > For there to be resistance there must be a genetic trait present in the > current population that will allow the bee to survive when its beathing > tubes are clogged with parasites. It Ain't Necessarily So! A trait such are good grooming could tip the balance in bee's favor. Have a look at the video clip mentioned yesterday where Dr. Jose' Villa and Dr. Bob Danka videotaped honeybees exhibiting resistance to tracheal mites. at: http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bna/b/e/beerich/ Aaron Morris - thinking Porgy and Bess! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:45:35 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Hale Organization: The "B"ee Spot Subject: Re: Apis mellifera capensis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All In reply to Chris Slades regarding Capensis and Scutellata bees. YES they do mate, and the hybrid that is prodused is not a very productive bee. I can only warn you that if you want to keep up a productive apiary stay well away from the Capensis bee. The Capensis bee is a very productive bee in the southern Cape. You can speak to any South African Bee Farmer about the Cape Bee or the black bee and all they will tell you is of how many swarms they have had to destroy due to it. Regards Mark Hale >From not so dark Africa Hosts Apimondia 2001 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 10:11:31 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: Winter Losses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > > busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM wrote: ... "The best treatment i have ever > came > across for Tracheal mites is from a article in American bee Journal-Feb.1997 > > page 138 by Don jackson...." > > Enlighten us, please. Aaron, Procedure is old news in commercial circles. Many commercial beekeepers have used the treatment as long as i have. I will use quotes by Don Jackson, Minnesota bee inspector ,from the article. Quote: One of the best attention getters took place this fall(1996) when i was checking an assembly yard of several hundred colonies for interstate movement. The nights had been cool,down to freezing,and this particular day had peaked at about 60 degrees F. by mid-afternoon when i was at the apiary. As i pried open the covers,I would find half a blue shop towel lying on top of the frames,ranging from those freshly installed by the beekeepers to those in all stages of being removed by the bees. A hearty whiff of menthol vapor hit my nostrils from each super. "Whats going on here" i asked myself. "The temperature is barely 60 degrees,and this stuff shouldn't be vaporizing so well in this cold climate". last paragraph from article: Viola! There you have it!-the best money save i've seen in this business in a long time, especially after the recent litany of what has been nothing but bad news. It's so simple that anyone can do it. Best of all,the treatment works in cooler weather and uses the one LEGAL treatment for tracheal mites-menthol. Hope i didn't leave any important parts out. Leave it up to beekeepers to come up with the answers to our beekeeping problems! Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 10:40:59 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: Don's method MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maysoon Shukur wrote: > > for some of us that are new bee keepers, can you please share this method > with us. I will if you promise to be kind to the next commercial beekeeper you meet trying to survive in a tough beekeeping business. First i don't know how to reduce the amounts down for a couple hives. Mabe your group or club could go together. We have put the finnished product in the freezer for later. 1. roll of blue shop towels cut in half with center cardboard tube removed. 2. a couple pounds of canola oil from grocery store and pound of menthol from bee supply dealer. 3. Find a three lb. coffee can ,or similarly shaped container,and dump in the canola oil and menthol crystals. 4. heat till dissolved. I do outside on barbecue grill. Now ,grab a half roll of those shop towels and immerse it in the liquid. If all of the solution doesn't get absorbed right away ,turn the roll end over end (with tongs and carefully as hot but only needs to be desolved not any where near boiling or even smoking. Also the grease can ignite from grill so don't spill any. Keep water handy to put out if need be.(In other words use common sense!)Immediately drain and put in zip loc bags and seal up. 5. place on top of frames of the brood nest. ( I repeat in ten days. Most have allready bee removed by the bees.) Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 11:52:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Winter loss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >> For there to be resistance there must be a genetic trait present in the >> current population that will allow the bee to survive when its beathing >> tubes are clogged with parasites. >It Ain't Necessarily So! A trait such are good grooming could tip the >balance in bee's favor. A very good point. My example was way too specific. My corrected point should be that the trait, whatever it may be, needs to already exist, or a fortunate mutation must occur. (A bee that grooms more could get the mite while it is questing for a new host). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 11:47:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Don's method MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" OK, now we know "Don's method". Gotta say it looks like back yard science to me. And I don't mean to beat the "pure science vs practical beekeeping" dead horse. The remedy/treatment seems like a method that can be prone to user error. The recipe, "a couple pounds of canola oil with a pound of menthol melted over a barbecue grill" delivered to the hive via soaked blue shop towels cut in half seems pretty "iffy" to me. Is there a consistent per hive dosage in there? Is there potential to deliver too much menthol? Is this something the honey consuming public would want to know? Any residues left in the honey? How does USDA weigh in on this method? Menthol packets are approved, are soaked blue shop towels? I have not heard claims one way or another about this method. I do not doubt that some, perhaps many beekeepers are using this back yard remedy. I wonder how many untold debacle stories there are to go with however many successful claims are being made. WARNING: Because you heard it on BEE-L does not imply truth or sanctions. Aaron Morris - thinking bee hives don't come with kitchen sinks! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 10:01:12 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Winter loss In-Reply-To: <200005031439.KAA10585@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I am still convinced as was Brother Adam that resistance to > > tracheal mites can be selected for. > For there to be resistance there must be a genetic trait present in the > current population that will allow the bee to survive when its breathing > tubes are clogged with parasites. Hmmm. I think there are many more possible mechanisms. I believe that the mechanism that works best right now is breathing tubes that do not admit the mites. Apparently some bees have hairs or something that restricts the admission of foreign objects? Also, apparently smaller bees have smaller tubes, and some say that the tracheal mite was an external mite until relatively recently when it learned to enter the tubes or found bigger bees that it could enter. allen -- Diary and pictures at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ Cell size, worker bee size, package installation & performance, winter loss, Fondant feeding, Pierco vs. Permadent, unwrapping bees, AFB, varroa, protein patties and more... Over 1000 served to date ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 11:32:13 -0500 Reply-To: sauer@mwci.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: sauer@MWCI.NET Subject: Re: Winter Losses? In-Reply-To: <10FA5ED1C2BAD211BF4E00A0C92ABF44326AB8@dwci.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our winter losses have been light, about 6%, here in NE Iowa. Our neighbor 15 miles north has about the same losses with her 200 hive operation. Other beekeepers we've heard from in central and western Iowa are reporting up to 40% losses, mostly due to mites and starvation. chris Chris and Janet Sauer Colesburg Apiaries http://www.greathoney.com (319) 856-2015 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 11:02:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Churchill Subject: Re: Don's method In-Reply-To: <200005031536.LAA12390@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:40 AM 5/3/00 -0500, Bob Harrison wrote: >5. place on top of frames of the brood nest. ( I repeat in ten days. >Most have allready bee removed by the bees.) How many towels per hive? I would think a couple would be sufficient, but from your description it sounds like you'd use the entire half-height roll. Thanks. Mike Churchill, Beginning Beekeeper | What's the buzz all about? mike.churchill@netmechanic.com http://www.netmechanic.com - Power Tools for Your Web Site Link and HTML testing, Server Reliability Testing, Image Size Reduction ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 13:24:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Tracheal mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As always, George Irimie's (GImasterBK) thoughts were well worthwhile. I wish I had his knowledge and beekeeping record! Since he invited me to expand my response concerning winter loss in the colder climates, I will do so. Thankfully, we do have resistant (or tolerant?) queen breeding stock. As others have mentioned, Kirk Webster of Champlain Valley Bees (802-758-2501) has developed such stock. While he is sold out for 2000, his stock has the advantage of being open mated. Resistant stock that is more generally available is the New World Carnolian strain developed and maintained by Sue Cobey. At http://iris.biosci.ohio-state.edu/honeybee/breeding/index.html you can find her data on tracheal mite infection for the past several years. (Once at the site, click on New World Carnolian, and then on Stock Evaluation Protocol.) Both Sue and Kirk suffered huge losses from tracheal mite and then rebuilt their stock from survivors. Sue counts her tracheal mite infection rate every spring and reports the result. It has been running 2%-7% for the past several years. However, this count may come from instrumentally inseminated stock, which most of us are unlikely to buy. (And in contrast to Webster's open-mated stock.) All I can say is that I have purchased open-mated New World Carnolians from California breeders for the past 10 or so years, and I have few tracheal mite losses. During 1999-2000 I over wintered 61 colonies. I had only one dead colony this spring, but had four very weak colonies. I think all of the very weak colonies were due to tracheal mite infections, as I detected almost no Varroa drop after inserting new strips. 1999 was the third consecutive year that I did not treat with grease patties or anything else for tracheal mite. I look at my losses as part of an on-going selection of tracheal mite resistant or tolerant stock. That said, if I were a hobbyist with something like six or fewer colonies, so that each was more precious than one of my colonies, I would treat with grease patties. They work, and they are cheap and easy to make. See the instructions in Dadant's catalog. Finally, these observations and comments only apply to beekeeping in the northern part of the country. For reasons that I forget, tracheal mites are a far more serious pest in the warmer parts of the country. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 12:46:00 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: Don's method MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > > OK, now we know "Don's method". Gotta say it looks like back yard science > to me. And I don't mean to beat the "pure science vs practical beekeeping" > dead horse. > > The remedy/treatment seems like a method that can be prone to user error. > The recipe, "a couple pounds of canola oil with a pound of menthol melted > over a barbecue grill" delivered to the hive via soaked blue shop towels cut > in half seems pretty "iffy" to me. Menthol does kill TM better than anything out there except maybe the new formic acid gell. I don't believe hobbiest realize the amount of menthol used per year for tracheal mites. Same food grade menthol and carnola oil only a different delivery method because menthol packets won't work in cold weather. > > Is there a consistent per hive dosage in there? 2 parts oil to one or two parts menthol according to the commercial beekeepers in the article. Is there potential to > deliver too much menthol? I don't see how as there is less menthol in the liquid than in the bags and the vapor is what you are after. Double dose will drive bees from the hive and can kill a amall amount of brood as per article. Is this something the honey consuming public > would want to know? Don says this is a approved method of application and as far as i know menthol has never been found in honey. I bet if it were you would get a lot more in a menthol cough drop. Any residues left in the honey? See above. How does USDA weigh in > on this method? They didn't say anything about the crisco patties. Menthol packets are approved, are soaked blue shop towels? As i said before Quote: from Don Jackson-bee inspector > Best of all the treatment works in cooler weather and uses the ONE LEGAL treatment for trachael mites-menthol. page 139 of Feb 1997 ABJ. Am i the only person collecting old ABJ's? > I have not heard claims one way or another about this method. Hard to believe as been in use for many years. Are there other treatments maybe you haven't heard of? kidding! I do not > doubt that some, perhaps many beekeepers are using this back yard remedy. Many commercial beekeepers struggling to survive while our best scientists try to solve the problem are using the remedy. I > wonder how many untold debacle stories there are to go with however many > successful claims are being made. Most commercial beekeepers have given up on educating you guys but maybe a few will reply. I suspect there MIGHT be many beekeeping mysterys solved if my friends would speak up. Not afraid to speak out in Missouri! > > WARNING: Because you heard it on BEE-L does not imply truth or sanctions. Don't believe what you read in ABJ either! This method works for me and i have used the treatment seven times. I check tracheal mites with microscope myself. I have no hidden agenda only to put forth again something i tried which i read in a ABJ article which worked for me. Maybe it won't work for you. A short history of medicene: "doctor ,i have a ear ache." 2000 b.c.- "here eat this root." 1000 B.c.-"that root is heathen,say this prayer." 1850 A.D. "that prayer is superstition,drink this potion." 1940 A.D.-"that potion is snake oil,swallow this pill" 1985 A.D. "that pill is ineffective,take this antibiotic." 2000 A.D. "that antibiotic is artificial. Here ,eat this root!" " you can't solve a problem with the same level of thinking that created it" --Albert Einstein You ask very good questions Aaron ! You have to pardon my humor! Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 12:55:58 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: Don's method MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Churchill wrote: > > At 10:40 AM 5/3/00 -0500, Bob Harrison wrote: > > a half-height roll of blue shop towels> > > >5. place on top of frames of the brood nest. ( I repeat in ten days. > >Most have allready bee removed by the bees.) > > How many towels per hive? I would think a couple would be sufficient, but > from your description it sounds like you'd use the entire half-height roll. > Hi Mike, I use only one ply across the back part of brood nest(same place as Terramycin goes. Handle with tongs not because dangerous but because of the menthol feeling if soaked into gloves. Don't have entrance reducers in and don't use when honey super are on. Only one ply is enough for two double depth boxes. Got to go put supers on will answer other questions later. email cought up. Bob harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 13:16:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: Don's method Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Aaron and Everyone, I have a couple of comments on Don's method. It is actually a method developed not by Don but by researchers at USDA. By dissolving the menthol in vegetable oil the surface area is greatly increased thereby greatly increasing the evaporation rate in cooler weather. Yes it does work if done properly and yes it is legal since the applicator is using less that the menthol label calls for ( you can always use less than label rates legally, never more than label rates ). Suggest looking up the actual article cited as Don's direction did not include a grill ( just be sure to do the heating outside ) and may ( don't remember here ) give a size roll on the paper towels. Application is one per hive. The menthol evaporates quickly so a second treatment 10 - 14 days later seems reasonable but may increase labor costs again you are using well below label rates of menthol. Best time to treat with menthol is spring though not fall but this treatment will work earlier in the spring at! cooler temperatures. Note timing is determined by tracheal mite life cycle with better control being achieved with spring treatment than the same treatment in the fall. Hope this helps. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 14:18:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Tracheal mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Finally, these observations and comments only apply to beekeeping in the >northern part of the country. For reasons that I forget, tracheal mites are >a far more serious pest in the warmer parts of the country. The mites do the most damage when the bees are in cluster. In Florida we go years without having weather cold enough for the bees to need to cluster more than overnight, that is they are out flying the next day. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 13:13:59 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Don's method In-Reply-To: <200005031836.OAA20088@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > By dissolving the menthol in vegetable oil the surface area is > greatly increased... A method popular in Saskatchewan is to use corrugated cardboard smeared with a Crisco/menthol mix. The sheet is placed on the bottom board. I've never used it. > Best time to treat with menthol is spring though not fall but this > treatment will work earlier in the spring at cooler temperatures. > Note timing is determined by tracheal mite life cycle ... Does anyone know, offhand how effective menthol is compared to formic -- and vice versa? Is there much difference in the recommended timing of treatments? allen -- Diary and pictures at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ Cell size, worker bee size, package installation & performance, winter loss, Fondant feeding, Pierco vs. Permadent, unwrapping bees, AFB, varroa, protein patties and more... Over 1000 served ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 07:47:55 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ron Law Subject: [Fwd: Cranberry Bogs and Bees] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Cranberry Bogs and Bees Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 09:21:36 -0400 From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" STORY LEAD: Cranberry Chores Don't Bog Down These Bees ___________________________________________ ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Marcia Wood, (510) 559-6070, mwood@asrr.arsusda.gov May 3, 2000 ___________________________________________ Two species of native bees may prove ideal for helping America's domesticated honey bees with the daunting task of pollinating cranberry plants. An average acre of cranberry bog has about 20 million flowers. Each of these small, white blooms must be visited at least once by a pollinating insect in order for the flowers to form ripe, crimson berries. ARS scientists in Logan, Utah, and their colleagues from Ocean Spray Cranberries, Inc., Lakeville, Mass., are scrutinizing the pollinating skills of a small, steely-blue bee known as Osmia atriventris. This insect belongs to a family of native bees that nest in holes in stems, branches, fenceposts, tree trunks and other aboveground cavities. And the scientists are experimenting with another promising native, a honey bee-sized leaf cutter called Megachile addenda. The leaf-cutting bee makes its shallow home in the sandy bottom of cranberry bogs. James H. Cane of the ARS Bee Biology and Systematics Laboratory at Logan, is leading the work as part of a cooperative research and development agreement between ARS and Ocean Spray, the country's largest cranberry-grower cooperative. Native bees are gentle and hardworking. They may help offset the loss of domesticated honey bees from attack by varroa or tracheal mites, small hive beetles, or microbes that cause devastating diseases such as foulbrood or chalkbrood. An article in the May issue of the ARS monthly journal, Agricultural Research, tells more about the Logan research team's studies of native bees as alternative pollinators. View it on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/may00/buzz0500.htm ARS is USDA's chief research agency. ___________________________________________ Scientific contact: James H. Cane, ARS Bee Biology and Systematics Laboratory, 5310 Old Main Hill, Logan, UT 84322; phone (435) 797-3879, fax (435 )797-0461, jcane@biology.usu.edu. ___________________________________________ This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isjd@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:16:06 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: Don's method MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote > > > Best time to treat with menthol is spring though not fall but this > > treatment will work earlier in the spring at cooler temperatures. > > Note timing is determined by tracheal mite life cycle ... > > Does anyone know, offhand how effective menthol is compared to formic -- and > vice versa? Is there much difference in the recommended timing of treatments? > > allen Hi Allen, Good question about formic compared to menthol. Both will eliminate tracheal mites but only menthol is legal in U.S.. I have never used formic acid so can't comment. A question asked between my friends and i is will the formic acid gell be as effective against TM. We don't believe the gel will be as effective as the canola oil /menthol towels for TM. Reason being that in areas(like Missouri) where menthol in the packets didn't work because of the temperature variations at treatment time the formic acid gell won't work because it has temperature problems also. Many hives have been lost to tm with the menthol packets. i don't know of one beekeeper which still uses bulk menthol in the packets. Many times crisco Patties put in to late are still intact in the spring. No treatment for tm and if terramicin was added no protection against foulbrood from terramicin. I don't know about timming of treatments. I only followed Dons article to the letter. I use two treatments at exactly ten days apart. I KNOW from my testing my tm problems are gone. I really don't know why the usda recomends spring only. All the beekeepers i know think fall is the most important treatment. Maybe they are afraid like in my case i have totally eliminated them from my yards by two treatments . Who needs the "so called "resistant bees at $500 a piece. Sorry researchers! Think of all the time Brother Adam could have spent fishing or reading a book about bees instead of laying awake at night worrying about the dreaded TM. he he! After 7 treatments and no TM i think its safe to say the treatment worked for me. I think i figure the cost a less then .50 per colony. I will say from my own research if formic acid liquid was approved in U.S. thats all i would use. Kills both mites and even varroa in sealed cells. I can vote,serve in the military and get married but not handle the dreaded formic acid liquid like the rest of the world. I bet if the formic acid liquid were legal more people would die from bee stings in U.S. than beekeepers misusing formic acid liquid! Enjoy your diary! Bob ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 15:59:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Pesticide info sought MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In an article in the New York Times about the West Nile virus and the pesticides and their alternatives being used to knock down the mosquito population, there is a reference to a pesticide that I can't find any information about. Here's the quote from the article, dated April 14th: "Last summer, Westchester was one of several suburban counties that chose a different pesticide, sumithrin, sold under the trade name Anvil, for its attack on mosquitoes." Using resource links at Dave Green's pollination page, I was unable to locate any information about sumithrin, and only one reference, in a list, to a produce called Anvil. However, the pesticide in Anvil in that reference was said to be hexaconazole. I searched on the Extension Toxicology Network (UC Davis), and the CDMS label/MSDS information search engine. Can anybody help me out figuring out what sumithrin or Anvil is, and whether it is toxic to honeybees? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:54:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Beekeeping on allotments Thanks to everyone for the various replies to my posting, which have been very helpful. Please forgive me for not replying to all of them individually; I was attacked coming home from work last night, and will not be in a fit state for a few days. Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 06:54:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael Bassett Subject: Re: Pesticide info sought Comments: To: John Mitchell On Wed, 3 May 2000 15:59:16 EDT, John Mitchell wrote: > Can anybody help me out figuring out what sumithrin or Anvil is, and >whether it is toxic to honeybees? here is the manufactures web address and it points to their write up on anvil http://www.zanus.com/adulticide.html its a pyrethroid and they seem to imply if sprayed correctly that there will be no harm to bees but they also say most spraying is in the am or pm which is probably wishful thinking. Mike Bassett ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 07:41:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: [Fwd: Cranberry Bogs and Bees] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The alternate pollinators have been studied in blueberry fields and the same result will come from the study in cranberry fields. They are great pollinators but you cannot get the numbers that honeybees can deliver. Plus, they are very expensive and require the grower to get into the bee breeding business. In the blueberry studies, if I recall correctly, you are looking at factors of 10-25 in increased pollination costs to the grower. Plus the study had honeybees pollinating at the same time as the alternate pollinator and the selling point was increased yields using the alternate pollinator. Since the blueberry growers still do not know what the best hive density per acre is, even that result is suspect. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 07:46:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Winter Losses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think Varroa is going to be blamed for a lot of the heavy winter losses, when tracheal might be the real culprit. I have three hives and lost one and the other two are weak but should recover. Since I have not lost a hive in five years, I thought I was doing great. Two years ago there was not a trace of Tracheal. Figured I had resistant bees. So no more crisco. My guess is that there can be changes in the tracheal mite population which would overwhelm even resistant bees. Give the mite even a slight advantage and its geometric growth could easily tip the balance. The larger problem here is that many beekeepers cannot tell the difference between a winter kill by Varroa and one by Tracheal. It does require some careful inspection. And since Tracheal has been relegated to the dustbin of history by many, resistant Varroa is blamed where it may not be the problem. If so, we can expect heavy winter kills next winter for the same beekeepers who think their problem is varroa. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 22:24:42 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Distance bees fly over water MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stan Sandler wrote > Perhaps Trevor will comment on the Torres Strait protecting Australia, as I > know he is involved with that protection. Not near as much human movement > there. We have a natural barrier by sea of 35 kilometres (about 22 miles) between islands that the Asian bees (Apis cerana) from Papua New Guinea have not breached. We are fairly comfortable with this as there are two areas where they have not breached this distance in the past 8 years since they arrived on our door step. There are no Apis mellifera in these areas as we are maintaining a ban on keeping of bees of the genus Apis in these islands so cannot comment on how far mellifera would go. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:50:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Stevens Subject: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit REGARDING MR. HARRISON'S STATEMENTS REGARDING A COMPARISION BETWEEN THE EFFECTIVENESS OF MENTHOL AND FORMIC ACID GEL ON TRACHEAL MITE. HERE ARE THE ACTUAL RESULTS FROM THE COMPARISON AT THE BELTSVILLE BEE LABORATORY DONE BY DRS. PETTIS, KOCHANSKY AND SHIMANUKI. "The ability of the formic acid gel to control the tracheal mite was evident in as few as four days. Dissections of live bees revealed that mites exposed to the gel suffered 92% mortality at this time, and mortality approached 100% on the eighth day. Levels of formic acid ranged from about 2ppm-4ppm over the eight day period. By comparison, menthol showed only a 32% mortality on day four and slightly better than 80 % morality on day 8. Tracheal mite mortality in controls receiving no treatment remained well under 20%." Our experience using gel bears out the label designation that it will fume when daytime temperatures are as low as 45 degrees F. In upstate New York, that is November and March. Bob Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:15:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: DOA Notice Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Federal Register / Vol. 65, No. 86 / Wednesday, May 3, 2000 / Notices Availability of Draft Pest Risk Assessment for the Importation of Honeybees and Honeybee Germ Plasm from Australia Complete notice at: http://www.beesource.com/news/article/importaustralia.htm -Barry ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 10:34:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Trachael mite detection? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Whenever working on colonies that seem to have trachael mites, I have by the same evening had excruciatingly itchy eyelids with redness. Unable to see the cause I had my son look for "cooties." With the naked eye nothing was visible, but with a 30x microscope, he was able to see 8-legged light-colored "cooties" on my eyelashes. The application of FGMO completely relieves the symptoms within hours, and until the next time I get into such bees. Could trachael mites or some other bee "cooties" afflict humans? Has anyone else had this experience. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 10:34:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: winter losses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Of 16 colonies here in central Maine: 11 are beautiful 1 got weakened by a mice but will be OK with excess brood from strong neighbor 1 an apparent recent queen failure with at least 5# of bees, getting new queen 1 late September 1999 split is weak due to a queen with spotty pattern 1 weak, queen with spotty pattern, will be combined with the one above and given excess neighbor brood plus new queen 1 effectively dead, handful of bees and queen, was same last year, very disease prone, suspect trachael mites. So in summary, with care, losses of 2 in 16, or 12%. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:39:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Distance bees fly over water Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Trevor Weatherhead noted: >We have a natural barrier by sea of 35 kilometres (about 22 miles) between >islands that the Asian bees (Apis cerana) from Papua New Guinea have not >breached. We are fairly comfortable with this as there are two areas where >they have not breached this distance in the past 8 years since they arrived >on our door step. There are no Apis mellifera in these areas as we are >maintaining a ban on keeping of bees of the genus Apis in these islands so >cannot comment on how far mellifera would go. Santa Cruz Island, offshore from Santa Barbara, CA, has had Apis mellifera for more than 125 years (brought out by a beekeeper at that time). Santa Rosa Island, less than 10 km west, has never had honey bees --- despite the short distance between those islands. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ******************************************************************** * * "When we meet a fact which contradicts a prevailing theory, * we must accept that fact and abandon the theory, even when * the theory is supported by great names and generally * accepted." * * Claude Bernard --- 1865 ******************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 12:30:17 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Antipollen laws could help pollinators MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Anti-pollen ordinances being considered around the country targeting wind-pollinated trees that create "pollen pollution" may bring a new foraging bonanza for honeybees and other pollen and nectar-loving insects. One model law being looked at is in Albuquerque, NM, where the city enacted an ordinance in 1997 banning elm, cypress and mulberry trees, and many varieties of juniper, cottonwood and poplar trees and bushes. The city was attempting to address an alarming rise in cases of asthma. Rowland Nursery owner Quentin Doherty says when customers ask for a mulberry or an elm, he lets them know about the ban and suggests an alternative, like a plum tree. "The showier the tree's flower, the less likely it is to produce a lot of windborne pollen—it relies on the bees instead." How much forage and how many trees are we talking about? Tom Ogren, author of Allergy-Free Gardening, says, "In the U.S., there are more than 150 million street trees planted every single year. There's a high turnover of city trees, because they live in tough conditions with smog and kids banging on them and cars driving over them and so forth." Increasing pollen loads go hand-in-hand with the rise in cases of asthma, Ogren says. Many factors may contribute to or aggravate asthma, among them pollution, dust and pesticides, but pollen is one of the worst, he says. Just today, U.S. Health and Human Services director Donna Shalala called asthma an epidemic. "Each year, asthma kills 5,000 Americans, and the disease is estimated to cost the U.S. economy $11 billion in health care costs and lost productivity," Shalala says. The number of people with asthma has doubled worldwide in the last 15 years. More than 10 percent of children worldwide have asthma symptoms, and in some countries, as many as 30 percent are affected. In the U.S., low-income and minority populations in the city are the hardest hit. New subdivisions in the suburbs have also been hard-hit—areas with a great number of new city-planted trees. Ogren says pollen loads have increased hugely due to city tree-planting practices that use male-only trees, or male-only clones. Female trees create "litter" because they set and drop seeds and pods. Male-only trees that only create pollen may help keep the streets clean, but steadily raise the pollen count. Honeybees could benefit from new efforts to correct existing practices, but there are still some barriers to planting insect-pollinated trees. Another nursery owner in Albuquerque said that flowering trees generally don't make good shade trees, "and in Albuquerque, we need shade." Mary, the owner of Bell's Greenhouse, said Bradford pears can reach sizes that creat adequate shade, but they take a long time. Can anyone on the list recommend tall, fast-growing trees with insect-pollinated flowers that provide good bee forage and sufficient shade, while being tough enough to survive the travails of city and suburban life? For a copy of Albuquerque's anti-pollen ordinance, call Kay Lang in the city's environmental health department, 505.768.2600 Ext. 2607. For more about the topic, read Tom Ogren's "Allergy-Free Gardening," new this spring. To read a story about Albuquerque's ban, go to : http://www.cultivatedgardener.com/features/000330_F1.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 10:29:01 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Stevens wrote: > > REGARDING MR. HARRISON'S STATEMENTS REGARDING A COMPARISION BETWEEN THE > EFFECTIVENESS OF MENTHOL AND FORMIC ACID GEL ON TRACHEAL MITE. > > HERE ARE THE ACTUAL RESULTS FROM THE COMPARISON AT THE BELTSVILLE BEE > LABORATORY DONE BY DRS. PETTIS, KOCHANSKY AND SHIMANUKI. Dear Mr. Stevens, Thanks for your taking time out of your busy day to repond. We have met and talked before. I and other beekeepers appreciate you being the main reason this beekeeping tool is approved and on the market. Many Bee-L readers may not realize you run thousands of bees yourself. I really never doubted the gels effectiveness for the tracheal mite but pointed out that LIKE menthol it is temperature dependent. I did point out that the menthol/canola costs less then .50 per colony BUT does nothing to combat varroa. Would you mind posting Dr. Shiminuki's results from his tests on Formic acid gell use for varroa. i feel the temperature could effect the varroa treatment but have a open mind. Also i noticed in your spring 2000 catalog you recommend 2 fomic acid treatments for varroa in heavy infestations. Could you explain your thoughts there. I do whole hardily agree the effectivness would be better by two treatments. I recommend at all my beekeeping talks that whatever the choice for treatment you should allways test with roll or sticky board in seven days to see if treatment is working. Don't just put strips,etc. in and walk away and say "i did my part". All beekeepers need to learn to test for varroa. In my opinion there is no excuse for the losses seen last winter to fluvaliant resistant varroa. My bees might have been in the area and got reinfested robbing those hives out. Thanks for the honey stores but you can keep your varroa. The whole industry needs to try and keep varroa levels at low levels. Thanks again for the gell and i really hope it proves out as you and Dr. Shiminuki believe it will. Dr. Shim and i discussed the gell in person three times last year. Bee-l is a discussion and we discuss all possible options with treatments. I hope all readers can agree to disagree at times. We all have our opinions right or wrong. All i ask is kindness to others views and a open mind. Good luck in the comming be year! Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 15:56:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: sex, lies and beetles Comments: cc: barkndog@aug.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit recall reading somewhere about small hive beetles laying eggs on honey bees, and now this! see http://www.nature.com/nature/ for full story: 04 May 2000 Nature 405, 35 - 36 (2000) © Macmillan Publishers Ltd. Beetle larvae cooperate to mimic bees JOHN HAFERNIK AND LESLIE SAUL-GERSHENZ The life cycles of parasites often involve complex behavioural and morphological adaptations in order to find a host. Here we report a remarkable mode of host-finding by the blister beetle Meloe franciscanus, in which young larvae aggregate together on vegetation to mimic the appearance of a female bee, luring male bees to land on them and collect the aggregation as a unit for transmitting to females during real matings. Although cooperative behaviour is common among highly social insects, particularly bees, to our knowledge it has not been reported before in blister beetles, nor has it been associated with mimicry. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nature © Macmillan Publishers Ltd 2000 Registered No. 785998 England. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 15:03:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: AL Subject: Illinois State Beekeepers' Association Summer Meeting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Meeting announcement: Mark your calendar now for the Illinois State Beekeepers' Association Summer Meeting. This year the Little Egypt Beekeepers' Association will host the meeting in Fairfield, IL, on Saturday, June 24th. For more information contact: Howard or Beverly Tanner at (618) 842-6016 or email at ffpro2@midwest.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 21:32:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Dragonflies in the apiary I wonder how many bees a single dragonfly would eat in a day? It can't be many. I get large dragonflies (presumably 'darners' though I'm not familiar with the term; the big long thin ones anyway)at my site here in Birmingham UK; previously I used to get them over the garden in Cornwall. I have never seen more than one at a time except around pools where they lay their eggs. According to d'Agular, Dommanget & Prechac, 'A Field Guide to the Dragonflies of Britain, Europe and North Africa', Collins, 1986, the males are territorial, which would explain this. If so, the number of bees taken might well be expected to be minimal. Regards, Robert Brenchley, RSBrenchley@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 22:43:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: Antipollen laws could help pollinators MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tulip poplar. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, VA John Mitchell wrote: > > > Can anyone on the list recommend tall, fast-growing trees with > insect-pollinated flowers that provide good bee forage and sufficient shade, > while being tough enough to survive the travails of city and suburban life? > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 23:52:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Green Subject: Re: Winter Losses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The topic "Winter Losses?" was quickly responded to by many beekeepers and has helped me evaluate my next treatment strategy. Thank you. For all of us to contribute a percentage loss for a certain treatment strategy, or a wintering technique, or for a particular queen breed, or whatever factor we are interested in, gives us all some needed hard data. Let's do more of this retrospective information sharing on our individual management technique. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 00:24:50 -0400 Reply-To: Honeybees@inorbit.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Modified Dadant Hives In-Reply-To: <200005021605.MAA06922@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi John, Lloyd Spear spoke at a Norfolk County meeting two years ago and told how that was how He had all His hives set up, it provides enough room for brood rearing and enough winter stores for Our area. It has worked but the drawback is the two different sized frames. That was the reason for asking about "Jumbo" hives. Lloyd told Us He leaves the mediums on the bottom year round Three mediums work very well also, I have six hives set up this way. I love trying new ideas and gadgets to see what works and that is why I have so many different setups like two D.E. hives and D.E. Langstroth conversion hive and this year I bought two Styrofoam hives.(those are really light). Good Luck, Garry ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 07:02:42 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Postmortems (was: Re: Winter Losses?) Comments: cc: pdillon@club-internet.fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 5/2/00 3:14:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, pdillon@CLUB-INTERNET.FR writes: > The losses increased at a rate in proportion to the land treated- and > its ability to remain active in soils long after its application, plus > the resulting metabolites being highly toxic to bees. > What type of bee activity did the bees show whilst working your > harvests- efficient nectar collection?,ability to work in all positions > or just about 30° from the horizontal. > OK, you might have a bad case of Acarine, or/and resistant V.j.- I hope > so! But I f you have Imidacloprid in the area- investigate very > carefully.It must be stated that Bayer are of course in total > disagreement with the independent results that are building up against > their product. I've not had experience with Imidacloprid, Peter, and I'm not sure it's used in the US. (Those in the sunflower regions, please comment!) But I have always thought that more of our winter losses than we realize are pesticide related. Contaminated pollen can easily be stored away in hives, even sometimes covered with fresh clean pollen in the fall, so that there are no noticeable losses occurring late in the season. If there are losses, they would primarily be to young nurse bees/brood, so it would have the effect of bringing an older population of bees into winter. (Taking supers off to treat before the fall flow and allowing the brood chamber to plug up with honey will also cut out that last brood cycle, with the same effect.) When bees have continuous supplies of fresh pollen (especially high quality ones, like goldenrod) they are able to deal with some stored pollen, because the effect is diluted. However, during winter, if no pollen is available, the bees become extremely vulnerable to poisoned pollen, whether it is Imidacloprid, or any other. One reason that southern bees do not often have such winter losses, is the continuous pollen throughout the winter, which dilutes the effect of poisoned pollen, and enables the bees to get the old pollen cleaned up before the spring buildup. Many beekeepers will take their lumps, clean out the hives, and reinstall bees, without giving much thought to the reasons for the loss (or the thoughts may just be so much speculation). Take some time to carefully look at the deadouts. Did they go into winter with old bees? Was there any evidence of pesticide poisoning last season (particularly late poisoning from sweet corn spraying (goldenrod in margins?), mosquito spraying, or whatever)? Just as some have mentioned, reference to tracheal mites is pretty much useless speculation, unless one looks at the bees to see if the evidence is there. Testing for contaminated pollen is expensive. But there is a cheaper test, if you will take the time. Select some frames with a lot of pollen from the deadouts. Then put one of these frames right up against a frame with mostly open brood. Go back in three days and see if the brood has become spotty, as if the queen has a failing pattern of laying. If you do this to ten hives during the spring buildup, and ten hives get a spotty brood pattern, you ought to become very suspicious of contaminated pollen. Another thing. When you get a pesticide hit, no matter how minor, make sure it gets reported to your pesticide regulators, and insist that the investigator take samples of stored pollen from the comb, along with samples of the dead bees, and plant tissue samples from the suspected application area. Many will not do this, unless you insist. If the bees recover, but the pollen is contaminated, you will still be facing the pesticide losses later, when bees are more vulnerable. Peter, you say: >What type of bee activity did the bees show whilst working your > harvests- efficient nectar collection?,ability to work in all positions > or just about 30° from the horizontal. Would you elaborate further on this. I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean? Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 07:49:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lackey, Raymond" Subject: Antipollen laws could help pollinators MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Linden Trees are another possibility for a flowering tree that produces a large shade tree, abundant nectar, and the seeds clean up like leaves. Ray Lackey Raymond J. Lackey Sweet Pines Apiary Honeybee Consultant - North American Fruit Explorers web page: http://www.tianca.com/tianca2.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 19:43:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Tracheal mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lloyd, Ignore that first transmission. Stupid me, hit a wrong key. I was saying that I have been using Sue Cobey's New World Carniolans for the past 16 years, except when I am running one of my scientific research projects and then might use XYZ queens. Some people have taken exception to my "HaHa" characterization of the words "tracheal mite RESISTANT." Unfortunately, to many people accept that word RESISTANT as meaning an almost 100% guaranty that tracheal mites will not injure or kill the bees. I wish it were so. In the original home of apis mellifera carnica, the Carniolan Mountains on the border of Austria and northwest Yugoslavia (now Croatia), the bees are still to this day almost disease free. However, in the U.S., unless a queen is artificially inseminated an open field bred queen is likely to be bred by drones carrying numerous diseases, and hence even some of the Sue's NEW WORLD Carniolans are not resistant to tracheal mites. Perhaps the loss of 3 hives out of 10 (30%) is not of great importance to a hobbyist, but a 30% loss to a full time commercial beekeeper might put him out of business. My point is that menthol WORKS and works extremely well if it is used when the temperatures are over 84° and doesn't work at all at lesser temperatures. Plain grease patties (no Terramycin) will not kill tracheal mites but will successfully control their population if used over a lengthy period of time (something beekeepers don't like to do). Diana Sammataro's original work stated 12 month's of continuous use (the year around, even during a nectar flow); but recently, she has modified the suggested treatment time from about July through November (again, a period resisted by many beekeepers). Finally, each has to decide whether they want live bees and maybe less honey, sick bees or dead bees and more honey, or dead bees and no honey next year. Those bees called RESISTANT do not guarantee live bees. I prefer being SURE of live bees and hence treat my bees with both menthol and grease patties; and the FDA, the EPA, and all the food control agencies say that neither menthol or grease patties adulterates the honey or beeswax. The new APICURE, formic acid gel, recently approved by the Federal Government is supposed to kill 100% of all tracheal mites and 70% of Varroa Jacobsoni mites, which is enough population control to prevent colony loss by Varroa. I will start testing it this month on some swarms that I have caught or going to catch, and I will report about it later in the year. BTW, the ONLY approved chemical in Denmark for both mites is formic acid and they have had excellent results. Our US government refused to approve the use of liquid formic acid as too dangerous to the beekeeper, and would only approve the use of a formic acid GEL. I hope our scientists do find a truly resistant bee, and I will be the FIRST in line to get some; but until then, I am going to use what bee researchers and bee scientists approve for use to either kill or control mites. Now in 2000, I am more concerned about the increase in American Foulbrood disease due to lack of bee inspection; and now a new strain of AFB has been found that is RESISTANT to control by Terramycin! As you know, some think that Terramycin kills AFB, which of course it does not. Terramycin only controls AFB so the bees don't die as long as the colony is continuously treated year after year with Terra. Sort of like diabetes: As long as a diabetic takes their insulin every day, they might live a long and fruitful life; but if they stop the insulin, blindness, limb amputation, and death is not far behind. My wife of 57 years is a diabetic. Guess I have said enough - or maybe too much! Again thanks for the opportunity to reply. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 09:35:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: sex, lies and beetles Comments: cc: germanbee5@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit my recollection of shb laying eggs on honey bees may be flawed, could have been shb eggs observed attached to honey bees maybe after combcell cleaning or something similar...here's more info links re:"sex,lies and beetles": http://helix.nature.com/nsu/000504/000504-10.html http://www.sfsu.edu/~pubaff/prsrelea/fy99/101.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 08:01:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jonathan Cnaani Subject: Collecting pine pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm looking for a beekeeper who can help me to get a few pounds of fresh, but low protein pollen (such as Pine or Cottonwood pollen) for experiment in bees nutrition. Here in Tucson we missed the Pine blooming ... Thanks in advance Jonathan Cnaani ________________________________ Jonathan Cnaani, PhD. USDA-ARS Carl Hayden Bee Research Center 2000 E. Allen Rd. Tucson, AZ 85719 USA Tel: 520-6706380 ext.237 Fax: 520-670-6493 e-mail: jcnaani@tucson.ars.ag.gov ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 10:50:43 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: Tracheal mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi George, Great post as usual! I agree with the points you made and would like to add a few. > > Perhaps the loss of 3 hives out of 10 (30%) is not of great importance to a > hobbyist, > but a 30% loss to a full time commercial beekeeper might put him out of > business. Very important point bacause if all beekeeping in the U.S. was done on a hobby level there wouldn't be very many medications registered for use on bees. Cost of reg. being the problem. Its hard now because there are about half as many full time beekeepers as ten years ago. Chemical companys are not going to register a product they can't make a profit on. Behind the scenes beekeepers such as Mr. Bob Stevens for the gell and one in the case of checkmite from Bayer out of Kansas have put forth effort to push these products through the government "red tape". Thanks! I have had two high winter loss years. Both times i was ready to quit. A survey i read once said only 7% of beekeepers keep bees for the money. I cleaned up those dead outs and with a jump start from my fellow beekeepers was going again! 30% loss can be trouble. > > The new APICURE, formic acid gel, recently approved by the Federal Government > is > supposed to kill 100% of all tracheal mites and 70% of Varroa Jacobsoni mites, > which is enough population control to prevent colony loss by Varroa. Those ARE the best figures i have seen. I have seen others. I believe the gell WILL kill 70% of varroa under ideal conditions. I believe we should hope for the best and expect the worse if weather conditions are not ideal. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY NOT BLAME THE PRODUCT FOR US NOT GETTING TREATMENT ON EARLY ENOUGH OR US NOT CHECKING IN 7 DAYS TO MAKE SURE THE PRODUCT IS WORKING so we can take other action to keep from having 30% and up losses! BTW, the ONLY approved > chemical in Denmark > for both mites is formic acid and they have had excellent results. I am not familiar with its application? Our US > government refused to approve the use of liquid formic acid as too dangerous > to the beekeeper. As a former orchard grower which used chemical sprays i find the U.S.D.A. position unrealistic. I have used chemicals MUCH more dangerous then formic acid. I have made appications with rubber suits on, chemical gloves and signs around fields barring entrance. Seems to me a maker of formic acid would have to only add honey bees to their label and list the U.S.D.A. requirements for application. Has a maker of formic acid liquid ever been contacted? Maybe Blane will respond? Agreed most hobby beekeepers should stick with the gel! > > Thanks again for the post George! Looks to me like you are not afraid to speak your mind on important issues facing beekeeping today! Maybe like me you figure if we don't solve these problems and get a couple products in use for AFB and the different mites there might not be beekeeping in the end of this century! On New Years eve this year i stayed home and looked at all the things which have happened in beekeeping in the last century. How many of those problems are still there and being masked by chemicals? More than our researchers would like to admit. Another scarry item is that in Europe when mites became resistant to fluvaliant the also became resistant to Amatraz and choumaphos! I called a pest control place in K.C. and the number of resistant to chemicals insects in the world is huge. Good thing they are not the size of air planes! Bob Harrison U.S.A. Bob Harrison U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:39:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Mares Subject: clapping for swarms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Last week I was in southwestern France and spent an afternoon with a French beekeeper. Mirabile dictu, a swarm appeared suddenly in a poplar nearby. The beekeeper began clapping his hands together sharply for about 30 seconds. Then he switched tobanging two pie tins for another minute. He said this would bring the swarming bees together. In three minutes the bees had assembled on one limb we retrieved the swarm and hived it without incident. I've never seen this done before. Is it sound biology or French wish fulfillment? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 10:20:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Organization: Oregon VOS Subject: Re: Distance bees fly over water In-Reply-To: <200005041705.NAA00247@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Venturing where I may not belong: it seems very possible to me that distances which otherwise would seem insurmountable to the foraging bee would not be a barrier if wind conditions were right. It would take only a few bees to carry VM to uninfected colonies. A colonizing swarm could very well be dispersed and never manage to establish a viable family even while individuals infiltrate and infect resident hives. Anecdotal evidence for wind assisted dispersal (supported by the sudden appearance of recognizable alien species) abound. > Trevor Weatherhead noted: > >We have a natural barrier by sea of 35 kilometres (about 22 miles) between > >islands that the Asian bees (Apis cerana) from Papua New Guinea have not > >breached. Direction of seasonal prevailing winds would also be an important factor. > Santa Cruz Island, offshore from Santa Barbara, CA, has had Apis > mellifera for more than 125 years (brought out by a beekeeper at that > time). Santa Rosa Island, less than 10 km west, has never had honey bees > --- despite the short distance between those islands. --------------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, fly tying benches | leave our kids a decent place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 13:42:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Cannaday Subject: Menthol I was following a thread and thought that the below might add some information for those that posted info or had questions about menthol and oil. Menthol-Canola Mix for Treating Tracheal Mites: Results of Research Conducted from Fall 1996 to April 1997 Back to Mite Control in Honeybees With Essential Oils Main Page Back to: Results of Research - Using Essential Oils for Honey Bee Mite Control ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Jim Amrine, Terry Stasny, & Robert Skidmore West Virginia University Division of Plant and Soil Sciences, P. O. Box 6108, West Virginia University Morgantown, WV 26505-6108 USA Telephone: 304-293-6023 Fax: 304-293-2960 E-mail: jamrine@wvnvm.wvnet.edu 1): Measure and mix components: Place two standard packs of menthol crystals (3.4 ozs. or 100 grams) in an 8 oz. (118.3 cc) measuring cup, then add canola oil to fill. Microwave for 4 mins. at 50% power. Check to see that all crystals dissolved--if not, microwave for an additional minute at 50% power. Must be used while warm otherwise crystals will reform. 2): Add to paper towels: Remove 30 paper towels from one roll; fold in half and stack. Put stack of paper towels into a large zip-lock bag and add 1 cup of warm menthol-canola. Zip the bag shut then squeeze the towels in the bag until all towels are evenly saturated. If one end of towels are somewhat dry, turn the bag sideways putting dry end down--in about 10 minutes, all will be evenly saturated. Thus, one cup of menthol-canola mix will treat 30 paper towels--using 2 towels per colony, this will treat 15 colonies. Towels can be stored at room temperature indefinitely if the bag is zipped closed. 3): Add to colonies: Do not add to colonies while a honey flow is on. Place one paper towel over the top bars of each brood chamber. Best time to treat is September. (Tracheal mites are usually not a problem from May to September, so no menthol needs to be used until the time that mites begin to build up in late August or September). Colonies can be treated anytime during the winter when temperatures rise above about 45 F. We recommend this treatment whenever tracheal mites are found; additional treatments can be made in December, January and February. The bees will chew up the paper towels and discard them at the entrance in 3-4 days (or longer in winter). This mix caused no harm to our bees but definitely reduced or eliminated the tracheal mites. Don Jackson's Shop Towel technique: A very similar technique was published in the February issue of the American Bee Journal by Don Jackson (Jackson, Don. 1997. Tracheal mites, menthol, and shop towels. Amer. Bee J. 137 (2):138-139). He used a 50-50 mix of canola and menthol, heated on a stove, and then cut rolls of shop towels in half and dipped them into the pan to saturate with the mix. Additional Research: We intend to find the optimum amount of menthol needed to obtain control-- maybe of this amount could be used--maybe more should be used. We also intend to observe the effects of this mix on varroa mites. 4): Calculation of costs (29 April 1997): One cup of mix contains 100 grams of menthol = 100/453.6 = 0.22 lbs or 3.4 ozs. One lb of menthol costs: Lorann Oils: $36.30 per lb. (bucket of crystals) Dadant: $24.82 per lb. (12, 50 gram packs for $31.50) W. T. Kelley: $23.68 per lb. (10, 50 gram packs for $25.00) Mann Lake: $19.85 per lb. Menthol for one cup of treatment costs: Lorann 0.22 * 36.30 = $7.99 Dadant 0.22 * 24.82 = $5.46 W. T. Kelley 0.22 * 23.68 = $5.21 Mann Lake 0.22 * 19.85 =$4.37 1 cup or 8 ozs of canola cost (47 oz bottle) 8/47 * $2.20 = $0.37 Total cost for materials (not counting labor): Lorann: 7.99 + .37 = $8.36 for 15 colonies = $0.56 per colony Dadant: 5.46 + .37 = $5.83 for 15 colonies = $0.39 per colony Kelley: 5.21 + .37 = $5.58 for 15 colonies or $0.372 per colony, Mann Lake: 4.37 = .37 = $4.74 for 15 colonies = $0.32 per colony Costs using 50 gram packets for standard menthol fumigation: Lorann Oils: $36.30 per lb. (36.30 / (453.6/50)) = $4.10 per colony (you provide the perforated packets at $.10 each) Dadant: $24.82 per lb. (12, 50 gram packs for $31.50) = $2.62 per colony W. T. Kelley: $23.68 per lb. (10, 50 gram packs for $25.00) = $2.50 per colony Mann Lake: $19.85 per lb. / (453.6/50) = $2.29 per colony (you provide the perforated packets at $.10 each) 5): Storage experiment: We conducted an experiment for two year storage of menthol packets (from Man Lake) sealed in a heavy plastic bag and kept in a refrigerator at 35 degrees F. After storage: Packet Weight of Packet (grams)* 1 53.71 2 51.00 3 52.23 4 53.18 5 51.88 Average Value = 52.40 g (se = 1.07) Avg. Bucket Wt.= 2.34 g Avg. g menthol / packet = 50.05 Conclusion: very little menthol was lost. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 20:06:12 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Once in 250 year Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Beefriends This April was exclusive on account of high weather temperatures. Our meteorologists declared that it was the warmest April in last 250 year period since the temperature records in Lithuania were begun to fix. The spring is some 2-3 weeks ahead to average. As Prof. Buinevicius said yesterday in our monthly beekeepers' meeting, we really have a non standard situation, the olive trees are blooming together with "FORZICIA". The bees were rapidly strengthening, bringing much nectar and pollen. The stronger stocks already began to raise queens. He reminded the listeners of methods to prevent swarming. An advanced beekeeper A. Miskinis gave us some details of his last experience. The wintering mortality of his Carnica is 1% (100 bee stocks). The reason was a crystallized honey in combs. The cleansing flight occurred on the March, 19. Air temperature was some 5C/41K . One of his best apiary control hive weight increased to 26 kg net. The ziphers are as follows: (Day/month-Daily weight increase, kg- Highest day temperature deg C/deg K) 18/04 - 1.5kg - 18C/64K 21/04 - 12.6kg - 22C/72K 22/04 - 2.6kg - 24C/75K 23/04 - 1.4kg - 24C/75K 24/04 - 0.5kg - 25C/77K 25/04 - 0 - 22C/72K 26/04 - 1kg -22C/72K 28/04 - 2.5kg - 26C/79K 29/04 - 1.5kg - 26C/79K 30/04 - 2.5kg - 26C/79K 01/05 - down 0.1kg - 12C/54K The supers are mostly capped. The garden trees ended blooming. Dandelions are going down but the bees didn't go on them at least to last Sunday. Since May, 01 we have a cold week with 9-14C/48-57K (normal as usually). The bees will have a hard period until raspberry which usually used to bloom on June, 10. As Prof.. Buinevicius said: "The situation is not described in no hand book. Even our famous learners of beekeeping Krisciunas and Straigis couldn't foresee such trick of the Nature." I hope the inventive beekeepers should survive. A president of Lithuanian Apitheraphy Association told us about newly explored, approved and spread into a market bee origin products for decease curing and everyday use. On June, 17 at 11 o'clock a beekeeping explorer Dr. Amsiejus invites all beekeepers to his learning center - apiary for a practical lecture "Queen raising, requeening and queen selection" Best regards Rimantas http://rizujus.lei.lt/ 55 North, 24 East ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 14:19:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: NW Mich Hort Res Station Subject: Guard Star-40 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" I'm hoping someone on this list serve will be able to help me locate a source for the product Guard Star-40 for a local apiarist (in NW Michigan). He said that it is used to kill a small hive beetle that has been found in Florida. Any help would be greatly appreciated. outJackie Baase NW Michigan Horticultural Research Station 6686 S. Center Highway Traverse City, MI 49684 outPhone: 231.946.1510 Fax: 231.946.1404 E-mail: nwmihort@msue.msu.edu baase@pilot.msu.edu Web Site:http://www.maes.msu.edu/nwmihort ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 14:00:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Varroa destructor Comments: cc: tommozer@hotmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cross-posted for discussion purposes: >> Forum: sci.agriculture.beekeeping >> Thread: Varroa destructor ,TERMINATOR !!! >> Message 1 of 1 Subject: Varroa destructor ,TERMINATOR !!! Date: 05/06/2000 Author: Jan Visser Varroa jacobsoni has possible 5 species. The Varroa destructor is the mite from mainland Asia, 2 members of this species are harmful to the European Honey bee. The Java mite first described in 1904 as Varroa jacobsoni is harmles to the European Honeybee it is the Malaysia-Indonesia type. It is a technological challenge to find a solution for removing Varroa destructor!! Perhaps electronicaly we might solve this problem through Static electricity, by charging only the outgoing bees and letting incoming bees unhindered back into the hive through One Way tunnels with no static charge because we do want to lose the pollen or nectar. We would train the bees to come in to the middle of the landingboard which they do naturally with nectar and pollen. They walk through the black One Way tunnel unhindered. Outgoing bees have to walk through the outside white One Way tunnels on the landingboard and will be charged with Static Electricity till their hairs stand on end!!! The bees will not notice this, but the Varroa will as it has the same Static charge as the bees and will be repelled. Remember that equal static electric charges repel each other. To make the One Way tunnels we have to fit slanted soft brushes inside on top of these tunnels. The way the hairs of the brushes run determines ingoing or outgoing traffic. The hairs of the brushes are not meant to remove the Varroa but they can be of help. Underneath these tunnels is an empty space with real thin wire or mesh connecting to the opening underneath it. The bottom of this space can be slanted towards the outside to clean itself from mites and other debris. The wire or mesh has to be spaced accordingly to the size of the mite. The tunnels can be made from Nylon or some other plastic with holes or rectangular spaces the size of one single drone. The holes are across and parallel all along the full length of the entrance perhaps in 3 separate sections. Two sections for outgoing bees on the outside white in color and One section in the middle black in color for incoming bees. Bees naturally make a static electric charge by flying and attracting the pollen towards them when collecting it from the flowers. To make this static charge a special constructed solar cell has to be made for this but that is another story! In the hope I might hear your comments. Kind regards, JAN VISSER from "The Land Down Under" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 16:50:55 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: Re: T- mite eye trouble MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, I never gave it a thought! I have an eye lash that is swollen and has a pimple that is ready to burst. I have no microscope and my wife tells me that it is just an eye lash with a puss sac near it. Can a mite do this? Ernie Gregoire "Beekeeper," definition= partially brave, partially excentric Grist Mill Apiary Canaan, New Hampshire, USA ------------------------------------- 05/05/99 16:50:55 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 23:38:43 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Re: Postmortems (was: Re: Winter Losses?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dave, Thank you for your message. You are correct to mention that pollen contamination is a problem. Our bees collect pollen from Maize treated with "Gaucho"-imidacloprid. The molecule is also applied to Wheat, Barley and Sugar beet. It is as mentioned applied as a seed treatment. Our problems do not appear(simplistic statement) until the Maize is in flower and of course when the Sunflower blossoms occur. The banning of Gaucho" as treatment on Sunflowers by the French Gov't has had little effect as the bees work the Maize! Resulting in: a.Collapse in forager populations on the Sunflowers b.Collapse in forager populations on the Maize. c.Contaminated pollen entering the hive from primary treated maize. d.Contaminated pollen entering the hive from plants picking up Imidacloprid from previously treated soils. The colonies are weak at the end of august, new brood is feed on contaminated pollen( and honey), they do not build up for winter adequately. Winter reserves are not collected properly. Bees born after the new spring brood is laid are fed again on contaminated materials. The molecule has been proven to be a neural toxin to bees at very low doses. These levels do not kill the bees outright- they are sub lethal: very important point !!! Until recent independent research on this problem the levels of testing did not drop to p.p.b. to investigate the sub lethal effects. The French Gov't in response to this problem asked INRA- Institute Nationale Recherche Français.(Dr Marc Colin of Avignon) and CRNS in Orleans(department: Centre for molecular biophysics- Dr Jean Marc Bonmatin) to investigate. Their preliminary results were held in check due to the soil persistence of the molecule not being realised- therefore the results between treated and "untreated areas was nul and void. Colin proved in lab. conditions that the molecule at sub lethal levels affected the bees behaviour detrimentally. Later work has shown that the behaviour of the bees on blossoms that are "affected "by the molecule is abnormal. The bees work in a haphazard fashion- inability to maintain the task- method and time. Limited ability to work in attitudes away from the vertical position. This has been studied by videoing the behaviour of the bees on Sunflowers (Organic/ Treated). The results have been and are still being analysed statistically. The Gov't as you can imagine is under immense pressure to stop this work- from many lobby sources- far more powerful than we beekeepers. The basic argument is that Bayer have produced a systemic insecticide that it knows is toxic to bees- but due to its method of application(seed treatment) and its activity duration state that it has no effects on the bees. Bayer have changed many previously stated facts, such as its levels of toxicity and length of activity in the soil as work has progressed.They hold back their results under the cloak of industrial confidentiality. At present trials on Rape are taking place in Canada- could not really apply to do the trails here in France! I t will take time for the effects to hit the bee colonies as the areas treated have to build up and the persistence in the soil. It now appears that if this molecule was submitted for a sale license in E.U. with the present day knowledge, it would be refused. We are waiting for the official release of the results of work under taken in 1999!! Sorry this is so long- but even this is a short account of what has been happening. >From the lack of replies on this list it appears that most beekeepers do not believe or can't be bothered until the problem arrive. Then it will be too late- pressure your governments to get info. and do the testing on pesticides in a proper manner. There are proposals for a new generation of Systemics that may be worse and we are not demanding that they are tested in the right way. If you don't demand, your forgotten. Result:NO BEES Regards. Peter. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 17:16:09 +0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Short fall in swarm destination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Peter wrote: >3.20pm, over the field came another swarm, but this time it clustered >about 150 metres short of the fore mentioned hive bodies, in a >blackthorn hedge - heavily spiked and just right to poke into sensitive >places. >Any ideas why such swarms seem to not to finish their journey. It is always fun to speculate although even an on the spot observer cannot know all the factors influencing bee behaviour. I believe, without being able to cite any authorative reference, that it is common for swarms to break their journey by reforming the swarm cluster, perhaps to enable the scout bees to transmit directions as they near the selected site. I have collected a swarm that had been hanging in bushes for a number of hours with scout bees indicating interest in a wall vent of the house. On that occasion, the bees all settled happily in the box immediately and the scouts presumably returned and rejoined the swarm. On another occasion a neighbour called me as there was a swarm in a bush across the road from my house. Scout bees were doing their thing displaying interest in cardboard cartons that had held old frames on my verandah. However I hived the swarm and left it to settle. Half an hour later my neighbour decided to mow the grass verge and puttered up and down with a petrol mower for 30 minutes. Immediately he had stopped, the swarm left the box and moved the 50 yards to the cardboard cartons in my verandah, presumably having rejected the interim location as unsuitable. Whether they would have done this without the intervention of petrol fumes I do not know. Perhaps precise directions are difficult where there is considerable distance to navigate and swarms may have to cluster to receive new directions. I see in another post that at least one French beekeeper still believes in banging metal lids together to persuade a swarm to settle. This is also bee folklore in Australia but I believe this been demonstrated to be a fallacy and certainly conversations amongst beekeepers indicate it is not known to be effective. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island J.H. & E. McAdam Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: small hive beetle/ahb and capensis Comments: cc: gwh_nfl@hotmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit see article on shb experiences in south africa in 4/00 issue of "bee culture" magazine online at: http://bee.airoot.com/beeculture/00apr/00apr4.html ..."Conversations were held with local beekeepers and bee researchers to determine the extent of damage caused by A. tumida in South Africa and measures that are taken to counter the beetle. Beekeepers in the Cape report that the presence of damaging numbers of beetles in colonies is extremely rare, and they believe that the local Cape honey bees control beetle numbers below the economic threshold. In the opinion of the Cape beekeepers, this control results from active aggression toward both the beetle adults and beetle larvae by the bees, with common reports of bees physically removing beetles from colonies. In the Cape, only colonies severely weakened by other factors appear to be susceptible to A. tumida, and as such beekeepers do not practice any beetle control measures. This is the situation throughout South Africa, as Apis mellifera scutellata is reportedly even more vigorous in its defense against the beetles."... ..."Breeding of the Cape bee in the United States is not an option, since the Cape bee is not considered a desirable species. Efforts need to be made, however, to further study and understand the active and successful defense against small hive beetles by African honey bees, and then perhaps to select similar attributes in bees in the United States. Such attributes may also afford some protection against Varroa." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 09:29:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roger Flanders Subject: Crooked New Comb in TBHs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anything be done to encourage straight comb-building in top bar hives after the colonies have begun building comb "off-center"? I'm experimenting with two TBHs this year. Both colonies were installed 4/14, and both are building beautiful new comb, but their combs are about 30-degrees off parallel. Each comb is attached across two or three top bars. Obviously, I'd like to correct this problem before much more new comb is built. --Rog Flanders, Nemaha County, Nebraska ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 08:11:02 -0700 Reply-To: Bosaiya Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bosaiya Subject: Re: Crooked New Comb in TBHs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are you giving them some type of guide? If you give them something to build off of they're much less likely to go crooked. Try a strip of wax or foundation embedded in the bar. Regards, Bosaiya .....designs to knock you out..... http://www.knockoutproductions.com -----Original Message----- From: Roger Flanders To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Date: Saturday, May 06, 2000 7:50 AM Subject: Crooked New Comb in TBHs >Can anything be done to encourage straight comb-building in top bar >hives after the colonies have begun building comb "off-center"? I'm >experimenting with two TBHs this year. Both colonies were installed >4/14, and both are building beautiful new comb, but their combs are >about 30-degrees off parallel. Each comb is attached across two or >three top bars. Obviously, I'd like to correct this problem before >much more new comb is built. >--Rog Flanders, Nemaha County, Nebraska > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 20:52:22 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: Re: Small Hive Beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > This is a voracious pest. It might be considered a 'minor pest' in it's > country of origin, but they are also farming a different bee. > He reports that the honey house of this guy is just 'crawling with maggots'. >From the country where the "minor pest" comes from, the following tips: String up a good hot light till the surface hangs only centimetres from the centre of your honeyroom floor. Leave on over night and sweep up the dead and dessicated shb larvae when you arrive the next morning. Beware of fire. They will crawl up and over each other in an attempt to get at the light and form a pile. Believe you me they are tough though. We have had them swimming in soapy water in the sump the day after washing the honeyroom floor! Another tip - for the hive manufacturer this time: Determine the optimum bee-space for your strain of bee and religiously stick to equipment that is made to that size. As long as the bees can get in there to clear out the adult shb they will. We even have our bees flying off with them - as witnessed by some Canadian beekeepers who visited here after their Apimondia congress. Also remember: less stress on the bees = less of a problem with pests and dis-eases. Happy beekeeping & God bless. Robert Post Cape Town South Africa Hosts of the 2001 Apimondia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 20:52:52 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: Re: Winter Losses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > > Did you treat for tracheal mites? > > No treatments other than purchasing "resistant" stock/queens. > > /Aa Why not ordinary fat patties? Once in Autumn (the Fall) and once during preparation for pollination.They are simple to make up and effective. We mix up 25 kg vege-fat to 175kg sugar and add 25kg jam (discard ex-factory) to bind. No waxpaper needed, the bees take it and the fat spreads slowly and continuously. On top of the t-mite reduction, the sugar is used by the bees to feed on = less stress again. We have noticed the paper-towel hygene test also relates to patties: If not taken within a week ... write a cross on the front. They won't make it six months! Robert Post ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 08:48:57 -0700 Reply-To: Bosaiya Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bosaiya Subject: Scratching sounds from hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One of my hives is making strange sounds. Almost like a scratching noise. I can hear it quite clearly from a foot or so away, along the back wall. There are no mice or other signs of infestation. This is my second most prolific hive. The most prolific is relatively silent. It's really quite eerie. Of course when I open it up there's nothing unusual to be seen, just busy bees going about their business. Maybe the hive is haunted? Polterbeest? Regards, Bosaiya .....designs to knock you out..... http://www.knockoutproductions.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 21:38:10 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: Re: small hive beetle/ahb and capensis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tomas mozer wrote: > Efforts need to be made, however, to further study and understand the active > and successful defense against small hive beetles by African honey bees, and > then perhaps to select > similar attributes in bees in the United States. Such attributes may also > afford some protection against Varroa." V.J was first detected August 1997 in Cape Town, South Africa. We have been living with her since then and even though it is reported that she might have been with us for two to three years before that, we never detected her. Even in the area of highest infestation (the peninsula) regular checking pre-08/97 never revealed her presence. Photos taken 12/98 show A.m. capensis opening up cell cappings and removing contaminated drone brood. We have not yet seen capensis biting or carrying V.j. We are fortunate that capensis has about a 24 hour shorter post-capping perion than most other races. This should mean no V.j. reproduction in capensis worker brood. Drones are still the problem though. Our V.j. populations are extremely cyclical with ups of +14 and then downs of 2 per 100 within weeks. Due to the fact that capensis is problematic re queen breeding, no selection has ever been done. This implies that nothing has been bred out of her either (i.e. hyg).. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 19:12:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pyramid Subject: Re: Crooked New Comb in TBHs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw cut a groove in the bars, blade width x 1/8" deep, and seal in a 1/2" strip of foundation. They have never built a comb anywhere else. Burns ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 16:42:52 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Ted J. Hancock" Subject: Re: clapping for swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - The beekeeper > began clapping his hands together sharply for about 30 > seconds. Then he switched tobanging two pie tins for > another minute. He said this would bring the swarming bees > together. > In three minutes the bees had assembled on one limb > we retrieved the swarm and hived it without incident. > I've never seen this done before. Is it sound biology or > French wish fulfillment? > Hi Jim, I've seen Canadian beekeepers bang on the hood of their trucks and yell at sight of a swarm. I always thought it was to vent frustration but maybe its just the French part of a Canadian coming out. The incident you witnessed reminded me of a story in W.H.Turnbull's book ' 100 years of beekeeping in British Columbia : 1858-1958 '. Since this book is long out of print and Mr. Turnbull has passed on I don't think he'd mind if I quoted that part of his book here. "....We arrived at the apiary( of some half dozen colonies) about 9:30 one bright morning, and as we drove into the yard we could see there was more than usual going on. A huge swarm of bees was milling around in the air close to the apiary. Three men where running around, one carrying water being pumped by a teenaged girl ) and throwing it up into the swarm, another was gathering up loose dust from the ground and throwing it into the swarm. A women .....was beating a galvanized washtub with a large kitchen spoon, and off to one side another women was perched on the top of a small building with a kitchen mirror which she used to catch a ray of sunlight, playing it up and down through the swarming bees. Knowing the habits of bees, Jim and I walked into the center of the milling mass without any protection and watching closely we noted the queen light at the ground at our feet. I remarked to my companion, ' Jim, the swarm will cluster right here', pointing to the ground at our feet. The men noted my pointing finger and heard my remark as the swarm settled very fast. It was only about five minutes until there was a large pile of bees clustered around where the queen had settled. I called to the owner and asked him to bring me a hive, which he had ready. Not being able to get the swarm on a sheet (in the time honored way), I placed the hive facing the sun, and at the edge of the swarm and tapped it hard,( an old French custom I had seen used many times with success). The bees immediately started to march into the front opening and soon the queen was sighted hustling in with the rest.......I was introduced to the owner and he said he had never seen anything like that happen before. I asked him the meaning of all the excitement when we were coming in, and he said, ' in old country when bees swarm we do this; throw water into air bees think it rain, dust all same, old women pound tub, bees think thunder, and women use mirror bees think lightning, they not like storm and hurry into hive. Your plan much better, you say " light here" and they light......" This isn't sound biology. In fact I can see both men going off thinking the other was the reason the swarm landed. Bees don,t have ears so unless they can feel vibrations through the air they should be indifferent to noise. I am not going to rule that possibility out though. An article titled Quantum Honeybees by Adam Frank in the Nov. 1997 issue of Discover magazine says that mathematician Barbara Shipman's work suggests bees - "....are somehow sensitive to what's going on in the quantum world of quarks, that quantum mechanics is as important to their perception of the world as sight, sound and smell." ( This article says bees may be using six dimensional math to perform their communication dances. I'm hoping some Ph.D. type can read that article and explain it to me in one syllable words) I've read in Roman times the owner of a swarm would pursue it banging on a kitchen pot. If a swarm had no one in pursuit anyone could claim it. In this day and age I find I often try to disown a swarm because it ends up in somebody's chimney or wall. What a difference a couple of millennium make. Ted Hancock ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 01:44:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ellen Anglin Subject: Re: Crooked New Comb in TBHs Comments: cc: flanders@PROBE.NET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Roger Flanders wrote: > Can anything be done to encourage straight > comb-building in top bar > hives after the colonies have begun building comb > "off-center"? Destroy the off center combs, or carefully detach them, straighten them, and tie them to a single top bar straight, so the bees may reattach it properly. (Cotton string will be chewed off after they reattach it.) I encouraged straight combs by placing good langstroth combs between the empty top bars of my empty TBH. The langstroth combs were straight. so the TB combs they built between them were straight. I eventually removed the langstrothe starters, and left them with only TB's. (My TBH is sized to hold Langstroth frames when needed.) Even now, I only place an empty TB between two good, straight brood combs, so that the new comb is nice and straight. If you place a empty bar between combs containing honey, they will often draw the honey combs out deeper, while working reluctantly on the new comb. The result is a shallow u shaped new comb that may or may not be straight, and two older combs that have a lumpy wavy surface of extra deep cells. The mid rib is still straight, but the surfaces extend beyond the face of the TB. When this happens, I usually harvest both of the too-deep combs, and examine the new small comb to see if it is worth saving. (It is usually all drone, so I usually harvest it too.) Comb building is a genetic trait. If you have bees that want to build consistantly crooked comb, you may have to requeen to get bees that will build straight. Langstroths hives restrict how the bees may build, so bees that don't work well in a TBH may build fine comb in a Langstroth- so if these queens are young you may want to move them to a langstroth hive instead. (Or give/ trade them with a friend.) Ellen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 12:40:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: "Pollinators in Peril" rerun Comments: cc: gwh_nfl@hotmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cross-posted from sci.agriculture.beekeeping fyi : Subject: "Pollinators in Peril" Date: 05/07/2000 Author: John Caldeira Some in this newsgroup might find this online CNN article interesting, though it is woefully weak on accuracy: http://www.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/05/05/pollinators.peril/ The bottom of the article mentions that "Pollinators in Peril" will air on cable TV on CNN's Earth Matters, Sunday, May 7, at 1:30 p.m. Eastern time. John Caldeira Dallas, Texas http://home.earthlink.net/~jcaldeira/beekeeping/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 10:37:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: clapping for swarms/ bee-dance math Comments: cc: haymedhon@TELUS.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ted Hancock wrote: ...This isn't sound biology. In fact I can see both men going off thinking the other was the reason the swarm landed. Bees don,t have ears so unless they can feel vibrations through the air they should be indifferent to noise. I am not going to rule that possibility out though. An article titled Quantum Honeybees by Adam Frank in the Nov. 1997 issue of Discover magazine says that mathematician Barbara Shipman's work suggests bees -"....are somehow sensitive to what's going on in the quantum world of quarks, that quantum mechanics is as important to their perception of the world as sight, sound and smell." ( This article says bees may be using six dimensional math to perform their communication dances. I'm hoping some Ph.D. type can read that article and explain it to me in one syllable words)... am no ph.d.-type (still working on my b.s. going on 30 years now) but believe can understand conceptually what's being discussed here...[btw, thanks for digging up that reference on shipman's work, available online at http://www.discover.com/ask/ (search archive), her work is certainly on the cutting edge of integrating the knowledge/data bases of bee science (or b.s. as a.nachbaur used to say, for a rad read see the nachbaur papers online at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/beekeeping/ )] so here goes my interpretation, albeit in polysyllabic mode: swarm observations such as those mentioned may well be examples of the heisenberg uncertainty principle, where the observer is inherently disturbing the phenomenon being observed and may be eliciting pattern-recognition where only randomness might be occuring, thus perceiving some sort of order out of chaos... however, this also applies to the counterintuitive field of quantum mechanics, to quote from frank's article: "A quantum field is a sort of framework within which particles play out their existences...[it is postulated that] the bee perceives these fields through quantum mechanical interactions between the fields and the atoms in the membranes of certain cells....Shipman’s work concerned a set of geometric problems associated with an esoteric mathematical concept known as a flag manifold. In the jargon of mathematics, manifold means “space.” ...When you draw a circle, you are in effect making a two-dimensional outline of a three- dimensional sphere. As it turns out, if you make a two-dimensional outline of the six-dimensional flag manifold, you wind up with a hexagon. The bee’s honeycomb, of course, is also made up of hexagons, but that is purely coincidental. However, Shipman soon discovered a more explicit connection. She found a group of objects in the flag manifold that, when projected onto a two-dimensional hexagon, formed curves that reminded her of the bee’s recruitment dance. The more she explored the flag manifold, the more curves she found that precisely matched the ones in the recruitment dance..." not to get involved in the debate over whether bee dances are communication and/or "idiothetic behaviour", shipman's insights appear to explain one particularly problematic observation, the change from round to waggle dances: "Delving more deeply into the flag manifold, Shipman dredged up a variable, which she called alpha, that allowed her to reproduce the entire bee dance in all its parts and variations... “When alpha reaches a critical value,” explains Shipman, “the projected curves become straight line segments lying along opposing faces of the hexagon.” The smooth divergence of the splayed lines and their abrupt transition to discontinuous segments are critical--they link Shipman’s curves to those parts of the recruitment dance that bees emphasize with their waggling and buzzing. “Biologists know that only certain parts of the dance convey information,” she says. “In the waggle dance, it’s the diverging waggling runs and not the return loops. In the circle dance it’s short straight segments on the sides of the loops.” Shipman’s mathematics captures both of these characteristics, and the parameter alpha is the key. “If different species have different sensitivities to alpha, then they will change from the waggle dances to round dances when the food source is at different distances.” this would certainly appear to be a testable hypothesis, even in the case of apis subspecies, regardless of theoretical bent... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 09:50:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Scratching sounds from hive Comments: To: Bosaiya MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Look for a Queen wasp stripping wood fibres from the hive to make paper for her own nest. Regards Dave Cushman ----- Original Message ----- From: Bosaiya To: Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 4:48 PM Subject: Scratching sounds from hive > One of my hives is making strange sounds. > http://www.knockoutproductions.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 22:09:53 -0400 Reply-To: Peter John Keating Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter John Keating Subject: Re: Postmortems (was: Re: Winter Losses?)Now Imidacloprid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "David L. Green" I've not had experience with Imidacloprid, Peter, and I'm not sure it's used in the US. (Those in the sunflower regions, please comment!) HI DAVE, l'm not the Peter who sent the original post, but Imidacloprid is being used in the U.S.A. and if you do a search you will find that it's been used for quite a while. Go to the National Pesticide Telecommunications Network at http://ace.orst.edu/info/nptn/factsheets/imidacloprid.htm. Here in Canada it's approved for potatoes and canola and maybe more. I agree with Peter Dillon, in that it is a problem coming to a beeyard near you soon! Peter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 21:56:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Re: Scratching sounds from hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:48 AM 5/6/2000 -0700, Bosaiya wrote: >One of my hives is making strange sounds. Almost like a scratching noise. I >can hear it quite clearly from a foot or so away, along the back wall. There is a crinkly sound that seems to be associated with drawing comb. I have no idea how the bees generate this noise, and whether it is the same sound. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 20:18:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: DNBrown Subject: Malathion Spraying Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello, I am a student in the 8th grade at the Parker Charter Essential School. I am currently studying activism issues, and I have chosen mosquito spraying as an issue, for my research project. One of the sources I need is an interview or similar correspondence, and I thought I might be able to satisfy this by asking the BEE-L. I am myself a beekeeper, which is why I am interested in this issue. Some interview-type questions I can give you are: Have you or are you planning to protest the spraying, or try to stop the spraying in any way? (it need not be a holding-signs-by-the-Statehouse type of thing) If so, in what ways did/would you do this? How would you propose that the mosquito problem be dealt with otherwise? Is this only a bad thing from a beekeeper's standpoint, or might it do things like kill off natural predators of mosquitoes? Any information would be gladly accepted, but I should have it before this Wednesday at the latest. I hope this is not too short notice. If anybody could tell me about other sources I might find, please do! Kendra Brown 8th Grader Francis W. Parker Charter Essential School, Devens, Mass. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 20:50:33 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: Re: Antipollen laws could help pollinators MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Mitchell wrote: > Can anyone on the list recommend tall, fast-growing trees with > insect-pollinated flowers that provide good bee forage and sufficient shade, > while being tough enough to survive the travails of city and suburban life? Try Eucalypts: Hundreds of species, many of them extremele robust, many ornamental, can handle the heat, many types produce an abundance of nectar and or heavy (insect pollination) pollen, small hard fruit, evergreen, a little leaf litter debris. Our main honeyflow in the Western Cape is from Eucalyptus caldocalyx - the (Cape) Sugar Gum. Let's hear it from the Ozzies? Robert Post ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 20:50:57 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: Re: Bees on allotments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CSlade777@AOL.COM wrote: > A chap I know keeps his bees without permission on his allotment on the Isle > of Portland in a roofless shed. He planted a cupressus hedge next to the > path. As a howling gale is considered a quiet day on Portland they probably > appreciate the extra shelter. His neighbours obviously know about it and > don't complain. They just take a break when he is working his bees. > > Chris Slade In the Netherlands the community actually sponsors bee-houses set up in public spaces (cycle-paths etc.) and allocate an Association to run this (they place the hives of individual beekeepers there) as long as a specified amount of education is done for groups that visit. Perhaps there are some Dutch Beekeepers than can corroborate. We regularly host Dutch visitors and actually have it first hand. In Australia there are parks where Apiaries are set out as part of the recreational activities there. Apparently bee forage is planted all around. This out of Australasian Beekeeper circa 1993-94. Confirmation again? Robert Post ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 22:57:15 +0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: A question for U.S. beekeepers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I believe that the food regulations of the United States require that ingredients be listed on food packaging, e.g. jars. Does this apply to honey? If so, what ingredients are listed and do these vary for different varietal honeys? Is a laboratory test required to verify the accuracy of the listed ingredients? Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island J.H. & E. McAdam Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C.Crowell" Subject: Re: clapping for swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A local farmer with a 9 hives and large orchard swears that banging two metal pans together will bring down a swarm if they are airborne. He says it mimics lightning. I'm waiting to try this myself. /C.Crowell ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 2094 12:59:43 -0700 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: A question for US beekeepeers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Betty McAdam asks about how honey is labeled in the US. Its been some time since I read the federal regulations so I can't quote them but I do know that Washington State requires that the ingredients be written on the label in order of their quantity in the container. It also requires the label to indicate the presence of foreign honey in the container. Thus if the container contains honey, corn syrup, Mexican (or other countries') honey, bits of fruit or other substance, these must appear on the label. In addition if the container contains honey and corn syrup it can't be sold as honey. Or, if the container contains honey and bits of apple, prunes, apricots or other fruits it can't be sold as honey. It may be labeled as a honey/fruit blend, a honey/fruit topping or some other such description. Truth in labeling is a serious issue for consumer protection. We had some honey sold in the state as apple honey, apricot honey, because these fruit trees bloom and the retailer wanted to capitalize on the famous Washington apple industry. Fruit trees do not produce any surplus honey, instead the bees use up this nectar to raise brood in the spring. Another retailer was packing honey with apple and other fruit bits as apple honey, prune honey etc. Both retailers were told that they were not in compliance with truth in labeling laws and were required to change their labeling. James C. Bach jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 12:28:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Organization: Oregon VOS Subject: Re: clapping for swarms/ bee-dance math In-Reply-To: <200005071844.OAA10542@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I believe there has been discussion of the "banging pan" behavior on this list in the past. You will, I believe, find that the behavior is man's alone. In Medieval times (and others to, I suppose, when honey was an essential part of diet and husbandry, hive owners would chase their swarms. They banged away as the ran to alert their neighbors that the swarm was their property, that they claimed their property, and to stay away. Ultimately, the bees came to earth. Surely as a result of all that noisemaking. On Sun, 7 May 2000, tomas mozer wrote: > ...This isn't sound biology. In fact I can see both men going off thinking > the other was the reason the swarm landed. --------------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, fly tying benches | leave our kids a decent place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 16:37:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Formic Acid, 30 % Loss In-Reply-To: <200005060401.AAA01315@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" quote: Our US government refused to approve the use of liquid formic acid as too dangerous to the beekeeper, and would only approve the use of a formic acid GEL. Having handled both carbolic acid (in the good old days) and more recently, formic acid, I agree totally with the assumption that these are too dangerous for the average person. They cause severe burns. Since many people are apparently unable to read and follow directions, it is better to use formic pre-packaged in the much safer gel. > Perhaps the loss of 3 hives out of 10 (30%) is not of great importance to a > hobbyist, > but a 30% loss to a full time commercial beekeeper >might put him out of > business. Up to 50% loss among beekeepers, commercial or otherwise, is actually common. In fact, if you make 100% increase in the spring, your bees will be in *better* shape as a result. Take brood and bees from the hive in spring to make new colonies and you increase brood production & curb the urge to swarm. This is not a new idea, if you study the history of beekeeping. -- Peter Borst plb6@cornell.edu http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/plb6/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 09:14:52 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: clapping for swarms/ bee-dance math MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > ...This isn't sound biology. My understanding of the reason that pans are banged, etc, has nothing to do with biology at all, but more to do with law. Back when many/most people were beekeepers, a good sized swarm in the air had a certain potential value. But if it came from your own hive, you had (under law of the time) some degree of ownership - but only so long as you were actively trying to hive it! The "tanging of the swarm" was the process of running after a swarm, banging pot lids together - not to try to make the swarm alight (though one might only hope!) but more to assert ongoing ownership. As long as you were chasing the swarm, and people could tell you were by the racket you were making, you still had a prior right to hive it when it landed... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 2094 13:08:27 -0700 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Scratching sounds in a hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No one has mentioned that bees will chew on some parts of the hive. If there is a crack where the boxes to not fit together tightly bees may attempt to enlarge this gap to create an entrance. Such locations are usually at the ends of the frames or corner of the box where the box end is only 3/8ths inches thick and under the hive cover. If this 3/8th wood doesn't fit tightly to the box side they will attempt to chew the wood to create an entrance/exit. If the hive entrance is less than 3/8ths inch, the bees will also round off the inside corner of the hive body end in an attempt to enlarge the entrance. I've seen the wood completely rounded off to a sharp edge in the bees' attempt to enlarge the entrance. Bees more often chew on cedar box parts and lids than on pine equipment. James C. Bach jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 17:33:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yuki Metreaud writes: <> I'm sure this is correct; the common pattern with diseases is that they are highly virulent at first; the most susceptible stocks are wiped out, along with the most virulent strains (which annihilate their hosts and thus fail to survive), and the end result is equilibrium. A perfect example would be Myxamotosis in British rabbits; when it was introduced (1950's?) it wiped out the vast majority of the population. We now have equilibrium, with a healthy rabbit stock, and regular outbreaks of myxy. If the bees are allowed to adapt, I'm sure the same will happen in the case of mites. What hard data is there for the survival of bees with TM over the years? Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com