From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jun 17 06:53:32 2000 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29421 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10488 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200006171053.GAA10488@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:14 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0005E" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 30517 Lines: 671 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 12:23:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: mimicry between droneflies and honeybees Comments: cc: LipscombA@HSN.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for further elucidation/speculation see c.berube's classic piece, THE BEE-RIDDLED CARCASS online at: http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet/beestars.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:48:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Erick and Wendy Platt Subject: Queen Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a dilemma. I am in my first season of beekeeping. I purchased a nuc about a month ago and immediately transferred it into a new hive. I Have been unable to find the queen the last four or five times I have worked the hive. however, there are new eggs in the hive. I have had continual problems with this hive producing queen cups and queen cells. I didn't cut them out last week, and today they were capped. I did, however, find some new eggs in there. There is much less uncapped brood than there was, but there are quite a few eggs, in a decent pattern, but not really to my liking, and with no cells having multiple eggs. I want to requeen, but I can't find that queen. Is this the right thing to do? Any advice would be appreciated. Erick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 10:05:18 -0700 Reply-To: stemfam@bmts.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pam Stemmler Subject: ANP foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What is the long form of the initials ANP, when refering to foundation? I assume it was stated and I just missed it. > My understanding is that ANP comb will only be > occupied with brood if NO > ordinary wax combs are present. Was the idea behind this to use it in the honey supers without the fear of the quuen going up and laying in it? No excluder... > It gives the drones funny curled under tips to the > wings as well but they > seem to fly ok. Why? Are the cells too small? Thanks, Carm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:38:35 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Queen Question In-Reply-To: <200005300519.BAA03583@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have had continual problems with this hive producing queen cups and > queen cells. I didn't cut them out last week, and today they were capped. > I did, however, find some new eggs in there. > There is much less uncapped brood than there was, but there are quite > a few eggs, in a decent pattern, but not really to my liking, and > with no cells having multiple eggs. I want to requeen, but I can't find > that queen. Is this the right thing to do? It is entirely normal for hives to produce cups, and not abnormal for hives to have a cell on the go at any time. However the threat or actual presence of cells is threatening to many beekeepers, because they sometimes indicate an intention to swarm, or a failing queen. Oftentimes, they don't really indicate anything. Maybe they are just insurance. If your hive has adequate room, a small population, and brood, I would just let the bees do what they want. Requeening sets a colony back and has risks. It should not be done capriciously. There are bona fide reasons to requeen, and good times to do it, but I can't guess from here. If the eggs are on the bottom of the cells and hatching into normal brood that goes on to be capped, I would let the bees carry on as they like. Why the amount of sealed brood is declining is a mystery, but I would guess that the reason could be lack of feed, or disturbance from inspections. Young brood is very susceptible to killing from exposure to sunlight even for a few minutes. Of course, a quick glance would tell me more than many paragraphs. My advice: find a local beekeeper and get her to take a look. She might just say to requeen. allen -- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Package installation & performance experiments, winter loss, fondant feeding, Pierco vs. Permadent vs. dark comb, unwrapping bees, spring splitting tricks, AFB, varroa, protein patties, daily mumblings and more... Over 1800 served ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 10:55:00 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Horizontal Gene Transfer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many thanks to Robert Mann for giving this report publicity. Although as yet it is unpublished work and ideal for a sensational newspaper article it does indicate how uncertain and potentially hazardous GM activity might be. I am sorry that as a consultant ecologist Robert did not express an opinion. I wish there was better information available. The worrying aspect to my mind, and I wish I knew more about this, is that I believe GM technologists use antibiotic resistant marker genes to help identify the successful, or other wise, transfer of the genes actually being manipulated. I hope a Bee-L expert can explain this reassuringly. If antibiotic resistant genes are transferred to the bacteria in the gut of honeybees what does this imply for the use of Terramycin against EFB and the bacteria in our own alimentary canal if we swallow antibiotic resistant genes in GM pollen? Regards Glyn Davies Ashburton, Devon, UK ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:33:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Little squash are rotting? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "My squash won't grow. The little squash are rotting!" You hear this a lot nowadays from gardeners, and sometimes from commercial growers who don't put in beehives. Sometimes they try to stop the problem with fungicide -- an exercise in futility, because the real problem is pollination. It has a lot to do with the recent decline in pollinator populations. So many people think that pollination is a single act, like flipping a switch. The bee goes to the flower, and pollination is done. Not so, for most plants that need bee pollination.... Pollination is not a "binary" act. It's more like driving a nail.....in commercial cucurbit fields we aim to get the bee into the female flowers 15-20 times. Just because you see a bee, doesn't mean that you have enough bees for good pollination. Female flowers? Visual aids at: http://pollinator.com/squash.htm Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 08:22:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: Little squash are rotting? Not any more! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great bit of information. This is EXACTLY the thing that caused me to get started with bees 3 years ago and I have proven to many of my friends that , with bees, you can raise squash the way we used to do. I did not know that the little squash were not squash yet but now I understand what I was seeing pre-bees. I will be sure to share this with all of the gardeners that I can in this county of Ky. All novices like me on this list should not pass this up. Thanks. Richard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 09:37:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: Horizontal Gene Transfer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Glyn and Everyone, This sort or gene transfer is not something new and has been shown with other genes in the past. That is why the researcher was not surprised by this finding. Not the issue you and others have raised about antibiotic resistant marker genes being used. First all these resistance genes are from bacteria as far as I know so they will transfer back to bacteria but again this is nothing new and has been going on for a long time. Many companies though have moved away from antibiotic resistance genes for markers for the reasons cited - we really don't want to spread these antibiotic resistance genes around any more than they already are. If the marker genes are not antibiotic resistance genes this concern is dealt with but some of the other issues are not. We do know from other studies of horizontal gene transfer that it does occur and any gene we put out in the environment may move. Of course these genes come from somewhere in the environment so we are just increasing their ! frequency but that still does carry some concern. My own concern about the use of the Bt. genes is that insect pests will become resistant to Bt one of our safest pest controls and a mainstay of organic and other low impact producers as well as being non-toxic to most non pest insects like bees and predatory insects. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 18:24:59 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: MOWERS & BLOWERS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good day to you In the process of cleaning bee sites, one is, per occasion, forced to do the work while the bees are on site. The work often entails raking, weeding, repairing fences and mowing. It has come to our notice that bees will invariably attack an electrically driven mowing device, to the extent that even the sparking plug lead, wheels and air filter on the mower get stung. Petrol driven mowers suffer the same fate, if somewhat less of a frenzy is noticed. Two stroke (petrol and oil mix, normally of 50:1) driven mowers (and even bee blowers) seem to be considerably less irritating to the bees even though these make a lot more noise, and produce a blue coloured smoke whenever the mix is too rich. Could anyone comment (1) on similar experiences, (2) on possible reasons for this phenomenon and (3) possible practical applications of the reasons. Many thanks Robert Post ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 09:26:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Susan L. Nielsen" Organization: Oregon VOS Subject: Re: unpubd claim of horiz gene transfer In-Reply-To: <200005282200.SAA05172@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII For those of us on this side of The Puddle, can you give us an idea what kind of publication The Observer is? The account reads rather more like a tabloid piece than a scientific one... and it makes one wonder as to the sources and all. Susan On Mon, 29 May 2000, Robert Mann wrote: > http://www.observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,319418,00.html > > > The Observer > GM genes 'jump species barrier' > GM food: special report -- Susan Nielsen | Beehive: If you build it, snielsen@orednet.org | they will comb. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:48:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: University of Michigan Subject: Re: MOWERS & BLOWERS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit crpost wrote: > It has come to our notice that bees will invariably attack an > electrically driven mowing device, to the extent that even the sparking > plug lead, wheels and air filter on the mower get stung. I have a four stroke bee blower, and I often notice that the bees will try to sting the spark plug at its contact point. A spring steel strip (for stopping the blower) is mounted above the plug, and when several bees get in between they can cause the blower to shut down. This does tend to get irritating, especially when one is working fast and now has to stop and restart the motor. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:47:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Pollination Last year one of the few crops I actually got on my allotment (despite successive floods) was broad beans. The crop was appalling; I didn't, unfortunately, think to count how many beans developed, but it must have been around 20-25%, with numerous large pods not having a single bean. This was undoubtedly due to poor pollination, the only visible pollinators being a few bumblebees. This was one of a number of factors which persuaded me to take up beekeeping. Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:18:55 -0600 Reply-To: darn@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: MOWERS & BLOWERS In-Reply-To: <200005301640.MAA26540@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I don't believe that it is the engine that irritates them. My experience is different from Ted Fischer's in that my bee blower is seldom of much interest to the bees. It seems that they are irritated more by the cutting blades close to the hive entrances. I tried a hand operated clipper near the entrances and they stung me and it repeatedly. My solution to the problem is to cut the grass near the hives with an antique scythe. Another one is to put down rolled roofing on the ground in front of the entrances. They don't seem to mind power machinery if it is more than 5 or 6 feet away. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:51:17 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Mann Subject: Re: Horizontal Gene Transfer In-Reply-To: <200005301119.HAA07792@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >. >I am sorry that as a consultant ecologist Robert did not express an opinion. The reason is no further than Glyn's next sentence. >I wish there was better information available. The story is far less intelligible than was the famous Aug 98 TV statement that a certain GM potato had damaged rats which had eaten it. In that case, a leading scientist (280 papers, a half-doz books) himself summarised the results. In the present case, a person (Beatrix Tappeser) 'outed' the actual researcher. The polymerase chain reaction (PCR) can amplify stray traces of DNA to any arbitrary extent, and can therefore produce preliminary results that are very misleading. (Some men are in gaol wrongfully as a result of its misuse in crime investigations.) Until we have a description in conventional scientific form, we won't know what to think. I find it difficult to imagine how Beatrix's 'outing' could be justified. > The worrying aspect to my >mind, and I wish I knew more about this, is that I believe GM technologists >use antibiotic resistant marker genes to help identify the successful, or >other wise, transfer of the genes actually being manipulated. I hope a >Bee-L expert can explain this reassuringly. Many current GM crops were created using that method. It has been among the hazards complained of by critics like me. I should add that other hazards of GM have generally been interpreted as worse - see www.psrast.org and www.ucsusa.org. >If antibiotic resistant genes are transferred to the bacteria in the gut of >honeybees what does this imply for the use of Terramycin against EFB and the >bacteria in our own alimentary canal if we swallow antibiotic resistant >genes in GM pollen? I'm not sure whether terramycin-resistance has been used in creation of any current GM crops; I think not, but I'm unsure. R - Robt Mann consultant ecologist P O Box 28878 Remuera, Auckland 1005, New Zealand (9) 524 2949 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 18:28:53 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "J.F. Hensler" Subject: Re: Pollination Comments: To: Robert Brenchley Robert Brenchley wrote: Hi Robert: Are you sure from previous experience that honey bees pollinate broad beans? We have raised both bees and broad beans here for years and I don't believe I have ever seen a honey bee on the beans. In our experience broad beans are wind pollinated and the weather has more influence on production than any other single factor. Have you tried block planting instead of row plantings? Skip Skip & Christy Hensler THE ROCK GARDEN Newport, Wash. http://www.povn.com/rock ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 10:12:18 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lear, Edmund (ENL)" Subject: Re: MOWERS & BLOWERS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have experienced some of these phenomena myself. (1) on similar experiences, (i) For a number of years I was able to mow up to about 3 meters from a hive with a petrol driven mower. The very first occasion that I used an electric mower I suddenly had this pain around my ankles at about 6 meters from the same hive. Then I noticed thousands of bees stinging the lawnmower. They didn't stop at that and promptly moved over to my neighbours cattle about 100 meters away. Although anecdotal; during the late eighties and early nineties, while I was trying to undertake a study on the history of beekeeping in South Africa, I met with some old folk who had lived during the Anglo Boer War. One chap of German decent who was 93 years of age at the time, told me that his father had enticed bees to set upon some British guards at a concentration camp by offering these chaps some carrots and honey comb. He then placed the carrot tops at the entrance to a feral colony about 50 yards away and ran away. The soldiers who were enjoying the honey soon had defensive bees around them and they were forced abandon their post. (ii) I once found a nice clean site under electrical power lines, but found the bees became extremely agitated. This lasted each day for the whole day for a week. Once I moved them away they calmed down to their normal defensive level, which I was used to. In the Highveld, we have a fairly high intensity of electric storms. These tend to build up very quickly without notice. One can be working well in an apiary and not notice a cloud build up above you, before the bees suddenly change temperament, firstly stinging any body that is unfamiliar with bees. I have found with consistency that beekeeping initiates are always the first to become stung, even though I don't wear all the protective clothing I insist they wear. You only realise why the bees are so angry when you hear the first thunder. (iii) On my plot in the south of Johannesburg I am able to get my bees to build their comb in straight lines on top bars without any starter strip, provided I have the hive facing north south. On our plot in the Magalisberg where there is a fair amount of iron in the ground the bees will build in any direction. When I was on a visit to Germany, I was shown a glass hive which had a large magnet underneath it. The bees had built their combs in an almost circular fashion. (vi) When I was experimenting using natural HDPE plastic sheet to build hives, I found the bees build up a charge in the hive. The bees coming in from the field would literary get stuck to the walls. This made them very agitated. But yet with other plastic compounds to provide UV protection (such as carbon black), the bees don't have the same discomfort. (2) on possible reasons for this phenomenon and (3) possible practical applications of the reasons. (i) First of all, bees don't like the smell of cut grass, carrot leaves, compost or horse sweat (to name a few). I had cut grass dumped within 6 meters of a hive and found the bees were soon in a frenzy. Possibly the smell is either offensive to them, or similar to their defensive alerting pheromone (ii) The magneto receptors although so minute within the bee could be disarranged by an electric field. Another factor maybe the smell omitted by the "electrical short circuit" which occurs when the motor is set in motion, there sparking across from the high voltage line or the build up of a lightning strike. (iii) Magneto particles could also play a role in the attitude of the colony. If it remains constant they don't seem to show any signs of stress and will live in harmony with it, but the minute these magnetic fields are changed through current moving through a conductor or around a winding the bees are put on edge. (Maybe home doesn't feel like home any more!) Bees are often found in Electrical panels, but as soon as there is strong current use, they seem to become finicky (iv) Bees don't like being held down whether it is static magnetism or a finger. Carbon black acts as an earthing material in plastics preventing static build up. Hope my contribution adds to your mental stimuli Eddy Lear ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:36:35 -0400 Reply-To: beemann@kingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kent stienburg Subject: Re: MOWERS & BLOWERS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Robert, I mow the lawn right in front of my hives with no problem. I've done it right in the middle of the afternoon and have done it for several years. But I have heard of this phenomena you speak of. Kent Stienburg Ontario Canada ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 18:59:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: cindy shortell Subject: Fw: Bears MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: cindy shortell To: bees Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 6:56 PM Subject: Bears Hi, Friday night I had a bear get into my one surviving hive. I put it = back together Sat am. The bees have been quite aggressive since that = time. I went out today to see if I could find the queen. No luck, but I = usually can't find her anyway. The hive is quite large. I checked for = eggs, and could not see any, some larva forming. Should I re-queen as I = am not sure if the bear attack killed the queen, since I do not see any = 3 day old eggs for them to make their own queen? Thanks Cindy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 07:14:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: unpubd claim of horiz gene transfer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by mdshepherd@XERCES.ORG to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. ----------------- Original message (ID=D92B821B) (66 lines) ------------------- Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:11:48 -0700 Reply-To: mdshepherd@xerces.org From: "Matthew Shepherd" To: "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology" Subject: Re: unpubd claim of horiz gene transfer Hi, Here's a bit of background on the "The Observer." I'm British and moved to the US a couple of years ago. I continue to read several British newspapers on the Internet, partly to keep up to date with what is happening in the UK, but also because their coverage of environmental issues is generally better than most US newspapers. (And it is always nice to get a range of perspectives on the same news story.) "The Observer" is a Sunday paper, and is a well-respected national broadsheet in Great Britain. It is the sister paper to "The Guardian," a daily broadsheet. Both newspapers have a reputation for accurate reporting, quality investigative journalism, and good coverage of environmental issues. Both have been independent of corporate interests as they have not been owned by large multi-national media companies. Politically, their editorial stance is left of center, unlike, say, other UK broadsheets like "The Times" (right of center) and "The Telegraph" (right). The article reads like a newspaper because it is from a newspaper, but I would be confident that the source of the information is accurately reported. Matthew Shepherd _______________________________________________ Matthew Shepherd Director, Publications and Pollination Programs The Xerces Society 4828 SE Hawthorne Boulevard, Portland, OR 97215-3252 Tel: 503-232 6639 Fax: 503-233 6794 Email: mdshepherd@xerces.org Website: www.xerces.org _______________________________________________