From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Jun 17 06:53:33 2000 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29424 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10491 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200006171053.GAA10491@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:53:14 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0006A" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 117915 Lines: 2794 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 10:13:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: Pollination (of Broadbeans) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "J.F. Hensler" wrote: > Robert Brenchley wrote: > successive floods) was broad beans. The crop was appalling; > We have raised both bees and broad beans here for years and I don't > believe I have ever seen a honey bee on the beans. In our experience broad > beans are wind pollinated This seems to be a fairly complicated situation - here is what I found by dipping into S.E. McGregor's "Insect Pollination of Cultivated Crop Plants", which we maintain and update on our website. You may access it directly at http://198.22.133.109/book/index.html -This excerpt is from Chapter 5, Legumes and Relatives. Pollination Requirements: The pollination of broad bean and field bean was studied by Free (1966) who concluded that insect pollination greatly increased production of broad beans but had little effect on production of field beans. Later, Free (1970*) concluded that the pollination requirements of broad bean and field bean were similar although inadequate pollination limited seed production in broad beans more so than in field beans. Darwin (1889*) showed that 17 broad bean plants covered with a net to exclude pollinators produced only 40 seeds, whereas 17 exposed plants produced 135 seeds. Probably the most important observation concerning the pollination of field bean was that by Drayner (1956,1959) and confirmed in more elaborate detail by Bond and Fyfe (1962) who showed that continued inbreeding causes a progressive loss in the ability of the plant to set selfed seed, but upon hybridization (cross-pollination) this ability is restored. This means that the plant can survive several generations (not indefinitely) without cross-pollination although production continually decreases. A similar situation apparently exists in many other so-called self-pollinated crops; continued inbreeding leads inevitably to elimination of the strain. - Hope this helps. ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona 85719 http://198.22.133.109/ http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/edwards.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 21:45:45 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: Re: MOWERS & BLOWERS Comments: To: beemann@kingston.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit kent stienburg wrote: > Hi Robert, > > I mow the lawn right in front of my hives with no problem. I've done it > right in the middle of the afternoon and have done it for several > years. But I have heard of this phenomena you speak of. > > Kent Stienburg > Ontario Canada I obviously ommited one serious point in my question: we work with A.m. capensis, an African race! Perhaps a bit different. A number of South African beekeepers have come back to me on this one, reporting mainly that the electrical and electro-magnetic fields generated by the motor, cause irritation in the bees. Many thanks for all the feedback Robert Post ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 17:34:28 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Skip Hensler writes: <> I can't prove it, but I know we had about four rows of broad beans on an allotment when I was a kid. At the time there were many honey bees about; far more apis than bumblebees. We had more beans than a family of six could really cope with, despite the fact that nothing was ever put back into the soil. I probably planted about the same area last year - a block about fifteen feet by four. Pollination was appalling, and I can only put this down to the lack of bees, as there were plenty of other insects and wind-pollinated crops like sweet corn did well overall, where the floods spared them. Mine tried hard, but the effect of four floods was just too much. There's a lot of information at http://bee.airoot.com/beeculture/book/chap4/broad.html which seems to establish pretty conclusively that broad beans are pollinated by bees and other insects. Apparently the bee's tongue is too short to reach the nectar in the flower but they visit them for pollen. If other people have observed something different, however, far be it from me to gainsay that. I shall wait and see what happens. Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 00:38:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: smoke substitute MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Last year I always lit my smoker, but used it sparingly. This year I'm carrying it loaded, and ready to light. It seems that, even on foul days, the bees respond just as well to puffs of breath from between pursed lips. They give exactly the same noise of recognition when breath is blown under the inner cover as for smoke. They settle right down on the frames. They cooperate faster, with less confusion, and seem much more attentive to being herded around on the combs. I made splits today this way, and it is much easier to spot the queen with the bees undisturbed. I have many races, and they all respond well to this. The colonies that were feisty last year are much gentler this way. If we get AHB here in central Maine, clearly this method will not suffice, but for now it is very pleasant, quicker, and smells much better. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 10:28:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: ANP foundation Comments: To: stemfam@bmts.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Pam ----- Original Message ----- From: Pam Stemmler The initials ANP refer to the maker's name (I think) I think the idea came from Germany...The "comb" consisted of two plastic mouldings and a central plain sheet rib It was intended for varroa control and a special feature of it was that the cells were all worker sized on the outside face but were all drone sized next to the rib (ie all cells were tapered) > Was the idea behind this to use it in the honey supers > without the fear of the queen going up and laying in > it? No excluder... No unfortunately this would not happen as the bees would only occupy the wax combs. > > It gives the drones funny curled under tips to the > > wings as well but they > > seem to fly ok. > > Why? Are the cells too small? In a way yes...the cells are only drone sized at the bottom of the cell so conditions are a little cramped for the drones, hence the bent wingtips. It was tried in the UK 10-12 years ago but it has faded out of the limelight...it was also very expensive. Best regards Dave Cushman Email: dave.cushman@lineone.net Web: http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 08:09:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Subject: Re: Pollination (of Broadbeans) In-Reply-To: <200006010434.AAA16482@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I would guess that the beans wind or insect pollinate but, as with many crops, the more pollen that makes it over the more seed sets. Put a few bees that need a little extra pollen into the area and you get much better results. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:31:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Canon, Hartman" Subject: FW: Science News and Chalkbrood MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > VERY interesting article on CHALKBROOD ' THE WHOLE BEEHIVE GETS A FEVER' > in last issue of > > SCIENCE NEWS Week of May 27, 2000; Vol. 157, No. 22 page 341 > > OR online, title ON the page at > > http://www.sciencenews.org/20000527/toc.asp > > Hartman B. Canon > 124 S. Cochran Road > Geneva, FL 32732 > home: hbcanon@homemail.com > 407.349.9229/9042 > work: Hartman.Canon@lmco.com > 407.306.4684 > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:17:43 -0700 Reply-To: Bosaiya Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bosaiya Subject: Dadant Halfcomb Supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone had any luck with Dadant's Halfcomb supers? We haven't had any luck. There's plenty of nectar coming in right now and the other hives are filling up standard frames like crazy, but the bees in the hive with the Halfcomb super are just wandering around in it like they don't know what to do. They haven't drawn any of the foundation out or anything. The hive is quite strong and had been filling regular supers like crazy. It doesn't seem like they would need special instructions... Regards, Bosaiya .....designs to knock you out..... http://www.knockoutproductions.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:52:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kevinp Subject: Kansas City MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all!! I'm going to be in Kansas City from June 28 - July 11, and I was wondering if there are any bee-related things I should go visit, like a local meeting, museum exhibit, etc. Any help would be appreciated!! Thanks, Kevin Palm Grafton, OH ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:21:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: DNBrown Subject: Re: unpubd claim of horiz gene transfer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "A leading zoologist has found evidence that genes used to modify crops can jump the species barrier and cause bacteria to mutate, prompting fears that GM technology could pose serious health risks." I must take these findings with a grain of salt. Why would only modified genes show up in bacteria, and not other, natural genes? If someone spliced a tomato gene into canola, why would only that gene transfer to the bacteria, and not other canola genes? Are there canola, or for that matter, apple, genes in the bacteria in a bee's gut? How could a bacterium know that a particular DNA sequence it encountered was not normally coded in that gene sequence? Clearly the data and methodology should be reviewed before this data is used as propaganda in the war over GM crops. Doug Brown ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:59:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: Dadant Halfcomb Supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Bosaiya asks: > Has anyone had any luck with Dadant's Halfcomb supers?... There's plenty in the archives on this, use "Hogg" as a search arguement. Of particular interest are posts: 005507, 005508, 005724, 007194 and 007199 Send a single line of mail to: LISTSERV@listserv.albany.edu that reads: GETPOST BEE-L 005507 005508 005724 007194 007199 Basicly what you're running into is a reluctance for the bees to work in sections, especially when you have "normal" supers in which they can work. Perhaps bees are claustrophobic and don't like working in those confined spaces. Some say producing comb honey is like shooting fish in a barrel, others will tell you it's an art. I lean towards it's like artfully shooting fish in a barrel: Once you learn how to do it it's pretty easy, but not without some effort. Recommended reading, _Honey_in_the_Comb_ by Eugene Killion (A great book even if you never intend to produce comb honey) and _The_New_Comb_Honey_ by Richard Taylor (who incidently is selling his comb honey equipment due to his advanced age). Aaron Morris - thinking comb is for bees, not hair (at least not mine)! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 08:08:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "J.F. Hensler" Subject: Re: Pollination (of Broadbeans) Comments: To: John Edwards John Edwards wrote: Yo John: I am familiar with the data you cite above and have wondered about a couple of the research results that might affect broad bean pollination when attempted under different conditions than which the tests conducted. Please understand, I make no claim of being an expert on either bees or broad beans; I am only commenting on what we have personally observed here in our plant hybridizing nursery, under the conditions and climate where we operate. I'm trying to muddle through this like everyone else... :) First of all, the data cites evidence that honey bees worked broad beans mainly, if not exclusively, for the pollen - not nectar. Next, the tests were conducted with caged bees. We have many different flowers in bloom throughout the season and the bees very well could be working a different bloom that they prefer during the bean blossoming period. If the bees were confined to beans only, or had nothing else available to provide pollen when the broad beans were blooming, then they very well could work the beans. Finally, whenever we are faced with poor production with any plant we first look to the seed source. We have found over the years that much commercial seed, especially that sold to small home gardeners, is inferior. The age of the seed and the amount of line breeding (read inbreeding) will have a direct bearing on the final product. IMHO, the most insightful information provided on the broad bean site is that which indicates that after several generations of self-pollination (inbreeding) germination is adversely affected. Cross pollination (hybridizing) of the parent plant will have a positive effect on the viability of the seed you are planting. Pollination of the plant you are growing, be it by honey bees, native pollinators, wind or hand, will only have a bearing on production if you have a plant capable of being productive to begin with... Skip Skip & Christy Hensler THE ROCK GARDEN Newport, Wash. http://www.povn.com/rock ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:16:26 -0400 Reply-To: adamf@Radix.Net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Resent-From: adamf@Radix.Net Comments: Originally-From: adamf@Radix.Net From: adamf@RADIX.NET Subject: Grooming assay? Anyone have a methodology? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello Folks. Does anyone have or know of (i.e. have a citation for) a field assay to determine if hives groom for varroa mites? In testing hives for mite grooming in 1995, I found all hives groom for mites somewhat. What is the difference between normal grooming and grooming that depletes the mite population, thus making grooming a phenotypic characteristic that could possibly be selected for? Anyone have any thoughts? Adam (note: the Reply-To has been set to my address). -- Adam Finkelstein adamf@radix.net http://metalab.unc.edu/bees/adamf ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:38:20 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Fungicides and Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We're told that growers will be wanting to spray one or several of the following on canola crops that are in almost full bloom where we will have bees. I have the blue book pages but see *nothing* mentioned about bees. I have heard bad things about fungicides and bees. Has anyone on the list any experience with the following chemicals? Benlate Bravo 500 Ronilan EG Rovral Tatoo C I am told that the first four are pretty well harmless to bees. If so, which fungicides have I heard all the bad things about? Thanks in advance. allen PS: Aaron mentioned hair. If you want to see his hair (singular), go to http://www.rossrounds.com/HoneyBee/Misc/Visit.htm -- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Package installation & performance experiments, winter loss, fondant feeding, Pierco vs. Permadent vs. dark comb, unwrapping bees, spring splitting tricks, AFB, varroa, protein patties, daily mumblings and more... Over 1850 served ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 12:10:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim McGarry Subject: growing queens I have started to raise queens this season and am curious about their development after emergence from the cell. I understand that the condition and population of the colony in which they live determines in part their condition as well. Does anyone have experience in noticing how much growth ie. increase in size, takes place after emergence????? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:46:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Fungicides and Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/2/00 8:39:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, allend@INTERNODE.NET writes: > I have heard bad things about fungicides and bees. Has anyone on the list > any > experience with the following chemicals? > > Benlate > Bravo 500 > Ronilan EG > Rovral > Tatoo C > > I am told that the first four are pretty well harmless to bees. If so, > which > fungicides have I heard all the bad things about? The only fungicide I've ever heard of having any effect on bees was Captain, and that was minor. We used Captain in the orchard, when I was fruit farming, and never could discern any damage. I suppose any chemical could cause severe damage if it is sprayed right into the entrances, or contaminates the bees' drinking water. But I've never been concerned about fungicides. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:27:40 -0700 Reply-To: Ian_Farber@telus.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Farber Subject: Re: Fungicides and Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > I have heard bad things about fungicides and bees. Has anyone on the list any > experience with the following chemicals? > > Benlate > Bravo 500 > Ronilan EG > Rovral > Tatoo Bravo is used as a fungicide as often as every 10 days on ginsing crops in BC. I do believe it will kill bees. My anecdotal evidence is that about 5 years ago I had a medium sized bee kill. Bravo was sprayed under the black plastic crop netting on ginsing in the early spring. Very few flowers were in bloom in the fields. However, the plastic netting caused the wild dandilions to bloom under the netting and many bees were working the dandilions. They were drenched with the spray. In front of the hives were classic examples of bee poisioning: dead bees, writhing bees, dying bees, shaking bees, etc. I had observed this on one other occassion. The last time I noticed the bees dying in front of the hive I saw the sprayer in operation a few hundred meters away. The operator said that Bravo was harmless to bees and that there were no flowers under the tarps. I pointed out the many dandilion blossoms that he had not seen and showed him the bees working the blossoms. He discontinued spraying until early evening. We looked at the Bravo label and bees weren't mentioned at all so he assumed that they wouldn't be harmed. The problem hasn't happened again in the last 3-4 years. The dandilions have finished here now so no problems this year. Ian ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 16:57:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: Fungicides and Bees I used to use Benlate on greenhouse plant some years ago, until I heard that it is carcinogenic. That raises two issues. Firstly, what effect, possibly longterm, would exposure have on a colony of bees? Secondly, would Benlate get into honey, and if so, would a trace be dangerous? Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 11:03:17 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Mann Subject: Re: unpubd claim of horiz gene transfer In-Reply-To: <200006021049.GAA02825@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:21 PM -0400 00/6/1, DNBrown wrote: >"A leading zoologist has found evidence that genes > used to modify crops can jump the species barrier > and cause bacteria to mutate, prompting fears that > GM technology could pose serious health risks." > >I must take these findings with a grain of salt. One certainly should. They aren't even findings at all, properly speaking, until properly reported. I have urged complete suspension of judgement on this matter, pending publication of a scientific account. The only reason I posted that particular Observer story was that it seemed to me the best of a bad bunch, and did at least include some quoted utterance from the scientist involved. Meanwhile Doug has posed some questions. > Why would only modified >genes show up in bacteria, and not other, natural genes? It has not been asserted that no other genes have shown up in the bee-gut bacteria & yeast - just that one particular gene was identified in those microbes. So far as has been rumoured, no others were looked for. > If someone spliced >a tomato gene into canola, why would only that gene transfer to the >bacteria, and not other canola genes? The first answer is as above - there is no claim whether or not others were transferred. However, it is quite possible that only the exotic transgene (for a certain herbicide resistance) was further transferred. The method of GM used to produce the current types of GM crops features a modified version of a promoter gene from the cauliflower mosaic virus, and there is reason to believe that genes spliced this way are more likely to spread by further 'horizontal gene transfer' (as it is called). >Are there canola, or for that matter, >apple, genes in the bacteria in a bee's gut? Again, until we have a scientific report there's little point in speculating. But lack of concrete replies to these questions does not imply that the claimed transfer couldn't occur. >How could a bacterium know that a particular DNA sequence it encountered was >not normally coded in that gene sequence? The CaMV 35S promoter is a unique tag. But I'm not sure that I grasp Doug's drift here. >Clearly the data and methodology should be reviewed before this data is used >as propaganda in the war over GM crops. Exactly. I feel for Prof Kaatz, ambushed by Beatrix Tappeser's leak. Enraged crusaders are not what we need on this very important issue. I assume the prof will now publish - at an earlier stage than he had intended - a scientific account of this work. Meanwhile, the best websites on GM are www.psrast.org and www.ucsusa.org. I do urge beekeepers to bone up on GM because it will impinge on them sooner or later in one or more ways. R - Robt Mann consultant ecologist P O Box 28878 Remuera, Auckland 1005, New Zealand (9) 524 2949 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 11:53:39 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: chris utting Subject: Devon BKA - Seale-Hayne Weekend Comments: cc: jane.ducker@hemscott.net MIME-Version: 1.0 >From Friday 14th to Sunday 16th July 2000 at Seale-Hayne Agricultural College. Programme includes Tom Robinson of BIBBA, Prof. Robert Pickard of the British Nutrition Foundation, Dr. Otto Boeking of Bonn University, Ron Brown, Dr. Guy Poppy of Rothamstead, Dr. Keith Delaplane of Georgia University, Dr. David Sheppard of English Nature, Brenda Ball of Rothamstead and Clive de Bruyn. Details from Jane Ducker, Oak Cottage, Manaton, Devon TQ13 9UA 01803 874 108 or email chris utting ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 21:43:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: growing queens In-Reply-To: <200006030400.AAA27744@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" 6. growing queens Insect adults emerge fully developed. There is no more growth after emergence. However, a laying queen may appear much larger when she is in her her prime. Virgin queens a week old appear to be as small as worker bees. This difference in appearance has a lot to do with the speed in which these queens move. The virgins are very fast and seem to try to hide. The large queens are heavy and move rather slowly. Only the abdomen in these is actually different, the laying queen's being swollen with eggs. -- Peter Borst plb6@cornell.edu http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/plb6/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:24:28 -0500 Reply-To: cspacek@pop.Flash.Net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: curtis spacek Subject: Re :gene transfer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the question I pose is as follows;was the genetically modified material found in bacteria simply the result of consumption or did the modified gene actually become part of the genetic chain of the bacteria? would not a grasshopper which fed on gm plant matter,when tested,reveal gm material from the food source?would this material be in the bloodstream or the gut,or both?or would the dna chain of the hopper be damamged and altered to accept the modified gene from the food source?I personally doubt this scenario.how would one separate the bacteria dna from the dna of nutrients consumed by the bacteria? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 11:41:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dan McFeeley Subject: Roger Morse, help needed for review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello list members! I've been writing out a post for the mead lovers digest, reviewing the contributions of Roger Morse to meadmaking. As most of you may know, along with his work in apiculture Morse made a substantial contribution to meadmaking. I have his major papers on mead, I'd like to be able to talk about his work in apiculture as well as some brief biographical details. Would you folks out there be able to tell more about Morse's work in beekeeping and apiculture? What kind of contributions did he make, or, maybe another way to ask the question, what might have apiculture been like if Roger Morse had never worked in the field? I know Morse completed his masters thesis in 1953; when did he compete the doctorate? Did he remain at Cornell university throughout his academic career? Are there other biographical details on his life and academic career that are important for a review of this kind? Thanks in advance for any help! <><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Dan McFeeley mcfeeley@keynet.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 16:20:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Normand Gravel Subject: Uniting Hi everybody, I have now hived 3 swarms in the last 3 weeks. 2 of them come from a split done on May 10. Now, June 4 th, the parent hives are side by side with the new hives. My intentions were to unite those hives together in one week time from now. Question: For maximum honey yield, should I unite and if so when? A friend tells me to keep them separate but I am afraid to miss the main honey flow unless the flow comes later? Over here the lupines are in full bloom and daysies are coming soon. I am in Pemberton BC 100 mi North of Vancouver Thanks for the help. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 09:20:33 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Mann Subject: Re :gene transfer Comments: To: cspacek@pop.Flash.Net In-Reply-To: <200006041414.KAA26715@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 8:24 AM -0500 97/6/4, curtis spacek wrote: >the question I pose is as follows;was the genetically modified >material found in bacteria simply the result of consumption or did the >modified gene actually become part of the genetic chain of the bacteria? >would not a grasshopper which fed on gm plant matter,when tested,reveal >gm material from the food source?would this material be in the >bloodstream or the gut,or both?or would the dna chain of the hopper be >damamged and altered to accept the modified gene from the food source?I >personally doubt this scenario.how would one separate the bacteria dna >from the dna of nutrients consumed by the bacteria? As I keep saying, we have to wait until the work is scientifically reported. However, meanwhile we can be fairly confident that nobody would bother to mention as sensational the trivial finding that Curtis first mentions, as distinct from actual incorporation of the plant DNA covalently in the microbial DNA, the second possibility. There certainly are examples of such 'jumping genes' in several kingdoms of biology. The question is whether in this rumoured case the microbes did incorporate into their DNA the transgene(s) which had been artificially inserted into the plant. If so, the explanation will presumably rely on the known higher tendency of transgenes inserted with the CaMV promoter to jump further in horizontal gene transfer. R - Robt Mann consultant ecologist P O Box 28878 Remuera, Auckland 1005, New Zealand (9) 524 2949 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 22:08:46 PST Reply-To: haymedhon@telus.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Hancock Subject: Packers, Prejudice and Pornography MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Packer: One who buys and sells honey, usually at a profit. Prejudice: A bias or leaning favourable or unfavourable without reason or for some reason other than justice. Pornography: Obscene writing. If any of these words offend you, stop reading now. I’m prejudiced against packers. In a couple of months they’ll begin their annual ritual of phoning around telling beekeepers the price of honey is going down. They’ll sniff out and target those who owe money and need to sell their crop. And beekeepers are a bit like sheep in that once the first goes through the gate the rest follow. I am part of this routine. I repeat what I hear. I find out the price of honey from a beekeeper, who heard it from a beekeeper, who heard it from a packer, and tell it to a beekeeper. This year I’m starting a new trend. Tell your friends- the price of honey is going up!!! A beekeeper in this neck of the woods has decided to become a packer. To get shelf space, he first slashed his price. Then he threw in a free case with every ten cases ordered. Now I hear he is offering stores two months credit. Free enterprise is beautiful at a distance, but hard to take close up. Close up, we are all half starving while waiting for this yahoo to go broke. A lot of the stores I supply with honey are owned by Chinese Canadians. Every one of them pays for the honey upon delivery. It is not because they like to deal in cash, some pay by cheque. They simply don’t like to carry debt. This is in stark contrast to some white-owned fruit stands I supply. They have one hundred reasons why I can’t be paid for the next six months. A few years ago, I was heading off to a Canadian Honey Council meeting, and asked a friend if he had any new jokes I could use to break the boredom. He said “Well, it’s not really a joke, but I heard of a new study that may interest you. A survey has discovered that when woman make love, their response falls into one of three categories, positive, very positive, or fake. In the first they say ‘ooh’ in the second they say ‘ooh, ah’ and in the third they say ‘Oh Ted!, Oh Ted!’”. I could see why he didn’t think it was much of a joke but at the convention I found myself talking to a packer and decided to run it by him. Of course I stuck his name in the so-called punch line. He gave a little shrug, and said “This may all be true, but why would I care? It’s all good for me!!” The trouble with the beekeeping industry is that too many packers have that same attitude when buying and selling honey. Ted Hancock Internet service provided by telus.net http://www.telus.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:47:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carmenie Stemmler Subject: Virgin Storage, Introduction Hello, I have a problem and I hope someone can help me! On June 1 I went to look at a neighbors hive. It had about a dozen supersudure cells. I cut some this morning, June 2, and placed them in cylinderical wire cages. They will hatch this morning and this afternoon, some hatched while I was there. I want to put them in double nucs and mate them. Just sortof for fun and to see what happens. I know I should be using known stock, but... I shook the bees out of the top box of the hive, put a excluder under it and the brood frames back in it. The bees then came up. I took the center frame out and placed the cages in there standing on end. I want to leave them there til June 4. Can I? Will the bees care for them? How do I introduce them to the bees? What should I put in the nucs? Comments, corrections, etc... I am listening, reading rather. Thanks for your help. Carmenie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 08:03:43 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: From sci.agriculture.beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From sci.agriculture.beekeeping: --- FYI, I recently received this e-mail from a USDA entomologist regarding inheritance of Varroa and Tracheal Mite resistance traits: >How resistant to varroa are Russian outcrosses? "I think it depends on the outcross. Some are and some are not at all resistant." >Is resistance dominant in half-breeds? "No, in the best case the out crosses would be somewhat resistant. But, I know of at least one cross where the domestic susceptibility is dominant." >I ordered open-mated, full blooded Russian queens this spring. So far, I am very pleased with the results. Bees that get mites on them vibrate and jump around until they get attention from the others. "That is good. It suggests that they may be at least somewhat resistant." >In your opinion, what races of bees are the most resistant to tracheal mites? "The darker bees from northern Europe generally are more resistant to tracheal mites. However, many US bee breeders are trying to improve their stocks for tracheal mite resistance. The genetics are rather simple for tm resistance, so those that try to improve their stock can do so rather easily. " -- Ed http://www.geocites.com/RainForest/Canopy/1436/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 16:31:17 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Re :gene transfer In-Reply-To: <200006042222.SAA02701@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There certainly are examples of such 'jumping genes' in several > kingdoms of biology. The question is whether in this rumoured case the > microbes did incorporate into their DNA the transgene(s) which had been > artificially inserted into the plant. If so, the explanation will > presumably rely on the known higher tendency of transgenes inserted with > the CaMV promoter to jump further in horizontal gene transfer. Does that suggest that antibiotic resistance, which I believe was used as a marker for testing gene transfer success -- as mentioned here earlier -- may be one of those transgenes that may have "jump(ed) farther"? If so, then the implications are pretty amazing. allen -- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Package installation & performance experiments, winter loss, fondant feeding, Pierco vs. Permadent vs. dark comb, unwrapping bees, spring splitting tricks, AFB, varroa, protein patties, daily mumblings and more... Thousands served... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 13:15:43 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: NZ: Operational Plan to Eradicate Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The decision to attempt eradication of varroa here in NZ has not been made, and will not be probably until the end of June once each possible avenue has been explored. First formal release of options material is the Operation Plan for Eradication. To come shortly will be an Operational Plan for Control (should eradication not be decided upon). At the same time will come a cost:benefit analysis that will provide a context for the reports to be considered within. If you would like to see the Operational Plan for Eradication, you can go to http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/varroa/plan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 09:37:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: From sci.agriculture.beekeeping Comments: cc: BigBee@spydee.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit see the rest of this thread on "Varroa and Tracheal Mites--Inherited Resistance" at: http://www.remarq.com/read/4586/q_wMy4Gr_Yl8C-yY9#LR ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 10:20:13 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Uniting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If possible, kill one of the queens. Occassionally I see recommendations to unite and let the bees figure out which will take over the new colony. I've done this and succeeded, but earlier this season, I united two swarms, and somehow both queens were lost. If you have difficulty finding the queens, look for them during a honey flow. I killed two queens for requeening purposes this weekend, and found them relatively quickly since the foragers were furiously working the clover and blackberry blooms. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 10:09:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim McGarry Subject: Carl jurica A number of years back Carl Jurica wrote a short book on queen rearing in the north. I have tried to contact him recently but have been unable to do so. Is anyone familiar with him or familiar with his book. Where might a person find a copy of this?????? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 09:05:15 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Varroa Thresholds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From sci.agriculture.beekeeping --- > Matthew Pollard wrote: > has anyone done this? what size screen do i want? What did you use for > sticky stuff? Hi, my husband made 6 screens to use in our hives. They are great. He used standard window screen. We got aluminum sheets from our local newspaper, cut them to fit with tabs to pull out of the hive (very important). We coat the aluminum with vegetable oil that we keep in a large green lemon juice squeeze bottle. If we are not counting mites, we clean them once a week with an old sock and apply new vegetable oil. Here is some correspondence with Dadent and our state bee guy that is real interesting. Dadent letters: > Hi, I just wanted to make sure. We have the varroa mite screens on our > hives with sticky boards underneath. Of course I lost the instructions > and now I can not even find your catalogue. And now I am counting > mites. I am monitoring 6 hives and the most I have found is 50 mites > in 4 days. > > Questions: > 1. I am pretty sure your instructions said something like, you would > have an infestation you would have to treat if you counted 100 mites in > 48 hours (without strips hanging). Is this correct? > > 2. I can only see the large brownish red oval mites. What about > immature and so on that I can not really see? Is there something I > could do to calculate them in? Is that important? > > 3. I tried doing a grid and count the mites in the grid, but some > of the time I only have one, and a lot of the time I have none. Can I > use this method (so much faster) or would I be risking miscounting? > > Thank you for your time. I am very happy about the screens, I feel it > is wiping out varroa mites, these guys are dead and out of there. Answers 1. yes 2. The immature mites and very small males are inside cells feeding on developing brrod. The lage reddish oval mites are female that are newly emerged. Hard to calculate and quantify the mites not seen. That is why the rule of thumb of x amount in 48 hours has been chosen. 3. If you are only trying to identify the threshold of 100 mites in 48 hours then the grid system with only 6 hives may be misleading. At this time of the year the bees are out reproducing mites. When fall comes and the bee population decreases and the mites doesn't thats when your ratio of mites to bees gets overwhelming. A varroa screen is great but you may want to use drone comb and Formic Acid in late ssummer to stay ahead. Take Care, Jerry Hayes And to Eric Mussen, California > Being our state apiarist, do you agree with this (Dandant's ) > guideline? This guideline, as you call it, or an "economic threshold" as pest management specialist would call it, probably is as good as any. The problem is that a colony can handle up to 10,000 mites with little damage or loss of productivity, if the mites are not vectoring RNA virus diseases. If the viruses are around, only a few hundred mites will be devastating. Do your bees or the mites in them have "deformed wing virus?" Your only clue is seeing dead pupae or very young emerged workers that have runty or terribly malformed wings. Their abdomens are likely to be shrunken, too. >I have counted 30-60 mites in 48 hours. I have counted 50-80 mites >after one week. I put Apistan strips in the fall and in early spring >we did not have any mites so I did not use them in the spring. I have >not seen any chewed wings recently and only 2 mites on bees out six >hives Drs. Keith Delaplane and Michael Hood suggest that the economic threshold in the southeastern U.S. is between 59-187 naturally fallen mites, per night, in August, and 0.6-10.2 mites in February. >Yesterday I tried putting Tobacco in my smoker (about 10 >cigarettes). According to what I read, you are supposed to close the >hive for one minute which I didn't do. The bees fled from the smoke. >I will examine the boards for mite drop after 48 hours. There was a special, high-nicotine tobacco product on the market for this purpose, available for Joel Willard Productions, 61 S. Herbert Road, Riverside, IL 60546 [(708) 447-2291] or FAX (708) 447-1158. >My questions are: >Could I make a grid and count the mites in the grid and still be >somewhat accurate? Yes, grids will work fine, but they have to be "fair." One researcher made a grid with one inch squares on it. Using a random numbers generator, she blacked out three-quarters of the squares. She multiplies what she finds in the remaining squares by 4. >I think there are more mites in the center strip >under the brood nest where I can pick up maybe 2 in a 3" grid, but then >a lot of the grids are empty.. I am not sure how to work it. If you know that only certain places are likely to have mites, use that as your "world." Divide it into squares, "randomly" eliminate a significant portion of the squares (don't just pick a bunch, your brain isn't random enough), count the remaining squares and multiply by the appropriate factor. >Also, I have been finding a beige translucent mite. Is that an >immature or do they shed their skins like a molt, do I count those as >well? Only count the dark ones. Immature female mites are lighter in color, but they are doomed, reproductively, so they don't count. The mites do molt as they grow, but the shed skins only show up after the bee emerges from the cell and the workers clean up the cell for the next larva. Eric. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 11:12:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Screened bottom boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" allend@INTERNODE.NET crossposted from s.a.b: > Hi, my husband made 6 screens to use in our hives. They are great. > He used standard window screen. The mesh on "standard window screen" is too fine for varroa screen. I do not recall the proper mesh, but I believe it is 6 or 8. /Aa ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 11:43:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HStarJE@AOL.COM Subject: Comb in glass jar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have advice for getting comb built inside a narrow glass jar or bottle? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:16:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: From sci.agriculture.beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> If this is the case, why was A. mellifera mellifera in Britain so susceptible in 1920? Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 11:16:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: Varroa Thresholds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Everyone, ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us >>> allend@INTERNODE.NET 06/05/00 10:05AM >>> >From sci.agriculture.beekeeping --- > Matthew Pollard wrote: > has anyone done this? what size screen do i want? What did you use for > sticky stuff? >Hi, my husband made 6 screens to use in our hives. They are great. >He used standard window screen. In my experience, window screen - at least here in the US is about 16 wires per inch and is too small for varroa screens as some of the mites don't fall through. In which case of course your counts under the screen are lower than the real mite downfall. Screen with 8 wires per inch works very well and is available here from many but not all hardware stores as 8 mesh hardware cloth. The mesh bottom is a good monitoring tool but you need to get all the mites to the counting tray to know what is really going on in the hive. blane ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 13:44:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Huestis Subject: demaree help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Over the winter I read the demaree method and decided to give it a try = this year. The third week of may I performed the operation on 20 = colonies. I added three supers of comb or one of foundation. Apple = trees are now past bloom and in a few days berries will start to bloom. = Seven days after I cut cells and/or made a nucs. All seemed well a few = hives were working there supers. Here comes the problems. The hives = with foundations haven't drawn any comb and the queens crossed the = foundations to the top brood chambers. What should I do about this? = Just switch the brood chambers and add queen excluders. In several = hives that were storing surplus now have empty supers. The upper most = brood chamber I believe is the new storage place. Can I use these = frames to switch with brood in the bottom chamber? No hives have = swarmed yet, most have very large populations. Can someone on the list = with experience with demareeing give me advice on what to do next? Any = help would bee appreciated. Clayton Huestis Crown Point, NY ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 15:34:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Concrete Hive Boxes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This weekend I acquired some used equipment that had belonged to an 87-year-old beekeeper in Piedmont North Carolina. Among the more unusual items were several brood boxes and bottom boards made of concrete. These are the first I've seen; it set me wondering whether concrete hives are at all common. I found one post in the archives that alludes to a 1996 or 1997 Bee Culture article on the subject, though I haven't yet been able to locate a copy. I'm not sure whether mine pre- or post-date the article, probably the former. If anyone else has encountered concrete hives or has info to share, I'd be interested. Thanks, Greg ______________________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Happy Hank's Honey House ghankins@ac.net Mt. Gilead, North Carolina ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 15:53:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: Re: Comb in glass jar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, To get the bees to put comb in a glass jar, take an inner cover and put a hole in it the size of the jar's top (actually a litle smaller). Put the cover on and place the jar upside down over the hole. Cover the inner cover hole. To get it done faster, you would have to do it during the honey flow and keep the bees cramped up. Not a good thing to do because it will cause other problems, but it is fun. Try it with a bunch of jars. Billy Bee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 21:25:13 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: Comb in glass jar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HStarJE@AOL.COM wrote: > > Does anyone have advice for getting comb built inside a narrow glass jar or > bottle? Take a 3/8 board a drill holes the size of your jar mouth. Place jars over plugged super in heavy flow. We have tried with single piece of foundation and just empty jar. They built comb in both leaving approx 3/8 bee space. We made about a dozen jars to use at our State Fair booth . Filled with honey they were quite striking. Not hard to do with a heavy honey flow. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 10:53:24 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: BeeGadgets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a reminder that the BeeGadgets list exists for discussing gadgets and tools for beekeeping and beehive measurement and telemetry. It is open to all. No equipment idea is too nutty or basic for brainstorming on BeeGadgets. If you are a tinkerer, an inventor or just interested, enrol at http://www.egroups.com/community/BeeGadgets allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 23:41:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Juandefuca Subject: Re: MOWERS & BLOWERS Hi folks Yes, bees have "random" ( To Us) behaviour. I Have certainly no challenge to anyone having observed and reported anecdotal events. After all what one has observed I take that for granted as truth. Why should anyone invent tales for any reason. In My experience : Hornets and Wasps (Yellow Jackets ) Have a definite "SPACE" one should not invade. They are also sensitive to vibrations and become very defensive. Bees exhibit such behavior also , but with different values of both. With them it appears it has to do with race , queen , weather conditions, temperature, ect. I have my grassclippings pile adjacent to the hives to keep the weeds away.The weed eater ( Gas engine) and my riding mower poses no reaction as well. I am not ware of a reaction by my electric chainsaw and the Gas one. So, that's another anecdotal tale and I am left scratching my head. Oh, yes, sometimes I get stung when I hug them too much. catfish ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 07:48:02 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lear, Edmund (ENL)" Subject: Re: Comb in glass jar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: HStarJE@AOL.COM [mailto:HStarJE@AOL.COM] Sent: 05 June 2000 05:43 To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: Comb in glass jar Does anyone have advice for getting comb built inside a narrow glass jar or bottle? Using an inner top board place the bottles you are wanting to use and mark out diagonal lines on the board. Using the intersection lines, cut the round holes according to the size of the bottle neck, then screw the bottles on. Place a super without frames around the bottles and place the inner board with all the bottles facing down towards the brood chamber. While a flow is on the bees will build comb in the bottles. Regards Eddy Lear South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:59:07 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Mann Subject: Re: Re :gene transfer In-Reply-To: <200006051111.HAA12729@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> There certainly are examples of such 'jumping genes' in several >> kingdoms of biology. The question is whether in this rumoured case the >> microbes did incorporate into their DNA the transgene(s) which had been >> artificially inserted into the plant. If so, the explanation will >> presumably rely on the known higher tendency of transgenes inserted with >> the CaMV promoter to jump further in horizontal gene transfer. > >Does that suggest that antibiotic resistance, which I believe was used as a >marker for testing gene transfer success -- as mentioned here earlier -- >may be >one of those transgenes that may have "jump(ed) farther"? > >If so, then the implications are pretty amazing. > >allen >-- The usual answers are:- 1. The probability is very low and should therefore be practically equated to zero. 2. The antibiotics used in the selection are in little medical or veterinary use at the moment. 3. The next generation of GM crops will use different technology. These statements of the usual answers are intended on the one hand to be accurate & fair but on the other hand also to hint at the reasons why some scientists like me are not satisfied with them. R - Robt Mann consultant ecologist P O Box 28878 Remuera, Auckland 1005, New Zealand (9) 524 2949 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 07:21:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Concrete Hive Boxes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by jjbmail@SELWAY.UMT.EDU to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. ----------------- Original message (ID=8602C951) (61 lines) ------------------- Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 15:02:57 -0600 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Concrete Hive Boxes At 03:34 PM 6/5/00 -0400, you wrote: Some years ago, a large commercial beekeeper in Montana manufactured hundreds of concrete hive lids. He figured that they would stay on the hive. Our commercial guys do not use telescoping lids (don't stack well on pallets and trucks). Most throw a rock on top of a flat lid. Well, besides being costly, the concrete lids had a short life. He did use rebar. But a couple of hot/cold cycles, dropping by crews, etc. and all of the lids ended up in piles in the corner of the yard - a broken mess of concrete and iron. Cheers Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 07:24:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Drawing Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by marcs@LEGATO.COM to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove electronic business cards and other formatting characters. ----------------- Original message (ID=322D3567) (92 lines) ------------------- From: "Marc Sevigny" To: "bee" Subject: Drawing Foundation Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 17:30:14 -0400 I am trying to resolve a problem. I had hives swarm due to congestion. There was not adequate laying space in the brood chambers, the brood chambers had too much nectar and honey. (Note that I am unable to extract the deeps since my extractor only accepts medium and shallow frames.) So, I introduced new queens, and added a new deep between the two existing deeps. The lowest deep does have some laying space. The middle one is now empty foundation. The one above is quite packed with honey. What is the best way to get the bees to draw out the foundation? Will they draw it out of necessity since there will be limited space to lay? Should I feed to stimulate wax formation? Since my hives swarmed, I'm also concerned about the age of the bees in the hive. There was no laying going on for a few weeks. The queen I introduced will start laying immediately, but there will be few young workers. Should I add honey supers? Will this allow the bees to move the honey up from the deeps? Will an empty super keep them from drawing out the foundation since there is new room to store nectar? Advice will be greatly appreciated. I created the mess by not monitoring them as closely as I should have. Now I need to figure out how to provide more laying space without extracting the deep frames. Thank you. Marc Sevigny Harvard, Massachusetts. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:36:25 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Hale Organization: The "B"ee Spot Subject: Apimondia 2001 - South Africa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All This is to inform all bee farmers and any one else with an interest in the bee industrie, that the 2001 Apimondia Congress is being held in Durban, South Africa from 2nd to 6th September 2001. Visit our website at: http://www.apimondia2001.com e-mail: confplan@iafrica.com Exihibitors can contact : mwthebee@mweb.co.za or saronde@su.org.za Tel: +27 (0) 12 667-3681 Fax: +27 (0) 12 667-3680 PO Box 82 Irene 0062 South Africa Regards Mark Hale >From not so dark Africa Hosts Apimondia 2001 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 08:10:58 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gilles RATIA - APISERVICES Subject: European Union - Proposal for a Council Directive relating to honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The following text has been published in the "Virtual Beekeeping Gallery" ( http://www.beekeeping.com ): >>>>>>>> EUROPEAN UNION GENERAL SECRETARIAT OF THE COUNCIL Brussels, 18 May 2000 Working document DENLEG/2000/10 Subject: Proposal for a Council Directive relating to honey Delegations will find herewith the new Presidency compromise text concerning the abovementioned proposal; positions of delegations are not mentioned. This text consists of: the text in document 7861/00 DENLEG 25 ADD 1; the changes to that text as in working document DENLEG/2000/9; the two elements suggested by the F delegation (new recital 6b and an addition to Article 2a; these changes are underlined). As part of the compromise, the term "baker's honey" of the English version will be translated in the other language versions as follows: In the Danish version: bagerihonning In the German version: Backhonig In the Greek version: ???? ??????????????? In the Spanish version: miel para uso industrial In the French version: miel destiné à l'industrie In the Italian version: miele per uso industriale In the Dutch version: bakkershoning In the Portuguese version: mel para uso industrial In the Finnish version: taloushunaja In the Swedish version: bagerihonung ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ANNEX Proposal for a Council Directive relating to honey THE COUNCIL OF THE EUROPEAN UNION, Having regard to the treaty establishing the European Community, and in particular Article 37 (Ex Article 43). thereof, Having regard to the proposal from the Commission (OJ C 231, 9.8.1996, p. 10), Having regard to the opinion of the European Parliament (OJ C 279, 1.10.1999, p. 91), Having regard to the opinion of the Economic and Social Committee (OJ C 56, 24.2.1997, p. 20), Whereas: 1) certain vertical Directives relating to foods should be simplified in order to take account only of the essential requirements to be met by the products they cover in order that those products may move freely within the internal market, in accordance with the conclusions of the European Council held in Edinburgh on 11 and 12 December 1992, confirmed by those of the European Council in Brussels on 10 and 11 December 1993; 2) Council Directive 74/409/EEC of 22 July 1974 on the harmonisation of the laws of the Member States relating to honey (OJ L 221, 12.8.1974, p. 10), as last amended by the Act of Accession of Spain and Portugal, was justified by the fact that differences between national laws on the definition of honey, the various types of honey and the characteristics required of it could result in conditions of unfair competition likely to mislead consumers, and thereby have a direct effect on the establishment and functioning of the common market; 3) the aforesaid Directive and its subsequent amendments consequently established definitions, specified the different types of honey which could be placed on the market under appropriate names, laid down common rules on composition and determined the main labelling information so as to ensure the free movement of these products within the Community; 4) for the sake of clarity Directive 74/409/EEC should be recast, in order to make rules on the conditions for the production and marketing of honey more accessible; 5) Directive 74/409/EEC should be recast in order to bring it into line with general Community legislation on foodstuffs, particularly legislation on labelling, contaminants and methods of analysis; 6) the general food-labelling rules set out in Council Directive 79/112/EEC of 18 December 1978 on the approximation of the laws of the Member States relating to the labelling, presentation and advertising of foodstuffs (OJ L 33, 8.2.1979, p. 1. Directive as last amended by European Parliament and Council Directive 97/4/EC - OJ L 43, 14.2.1997, p. 21), should apply subject to certain conditions; compte tenu du lien étroit entre la qualité du miel et son origine, il est indispensable d'assurer une pleine information sur ces points afin d'éviter d'induire en erreur le consommateur sur la qualité du produit; the particular consumer interests as regards the geographical characteristics of honey and full transparency in this regard necessitate that the country of origin where the honey has been harvested should be included in the labelling; 6a. aucun pollen ou autre constituant particulier du miel ne doit être retiré, sauf si cela est inévitable lors de l'élimination de matières organiques et inorganiques étrangères; cette dernière peut être réalisée par filtration; lorsque cette filtration conduit à l'élimination d'une quantité significative de pollen, il est nécessaire d'en informer correctement le consommateur par une mention d'étiquetage appropriée; 6b. le miel dont la dénomination est complétée par des indications ayant trait à une origine florale ou végétale, régionale, territoriale ou topographique, ou par des critères de qualité spécifiques, ne peut avoir été additionné de miel filtré, et qu'afin d'améliorer la transparence du marché, l'étiquetage des miels filtrés ou destinés à l'industrie doit être obligatoire pour toute transaction dans le marché en vrac; 7) as the Commission stressed in its communication to the European Parliament and the Council of 24 June 1994 on European apiculture, the Commission may adopt methods of analysis to ensure compliance with the compositional characteristics and additional specific statements for all honey marketed in the European Community; 7a. it is desirable to take account of the work achieved on a new Codex standard for honey, adjusted, as appropriate, to the specific requirements of the Community; 8) in accordance with the principles of subsidiarity and proportionality established by Article 5 of the Treaty, the objective of laying down common definitions and rules for the products concerned and bringing the provisions into line with general Community legislation on foodstuffs cannot be sufficiently achieved by the Member States and can therefore, by reason of the nature of this Directive, be better achieved by the Community; whereas this Directive does not go beyond what is necessary to achieve the said objective; 9) the measures necessary for the implementation of this Directive should be adopted in accordance with Council Decision 1999/468/EC of 28 June 1999 laying down the procedures for the exercise of implementing powers conferred on the Commission (OJ L 184, 17.7.1999, p. 23); 10) to avoid creating new barriers to free movement, Member States should refrain from adopting national provisions not provided for by this Directive for the products in question, ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- HAS ADOPTED THIS DIRECTIVE Article 1 This Directive shall apply to the products defined in Annex I. These products must meet the requirements set out in Annex II. Article 2 Directive 79/112/EEC shall apply to the products defined in Annex I, subject to the following conditions: 1. The term of "honey" shall be applied only to the product defined in Annex I (1) and must be used in trade to designate that product. 2. The product names referred to in Annex I (2 and 3) shall apply only to the products defined therein and must be used in trade to designate them. These names may be replaced by the simple product name "honey", except in the case of filtered honey, comb honey, chunk honey or cut comb in honey and baker's honey. However, - in the case of baker's honey, the words " intended for cooking only " shall appear on the label in close proximity to the product name; - except in the case of filtered honey and baker's honey, the product names may be supplemented by information referring to: - floral or vegetable origin, if the product comes wholly or mainly from the indicated source and possesses the organoleptic, physico-chemical and microscopic characteristics of the source; - regional, territorial or topographical origin, if the product comes entirely from the indicated source; - specific quality criteria. 2a. Where baker's honey has been used as an ingredient in a compound foodstuff, the term "honey" may be used in the product name of the compound food instead of the term "baker's honey". However, in the list of ingredients, the full term as referred to in Annex I, Part 3 shall be used. 3. a) The country or countries of origin where the honey has been harvested shall be indicated on the label. However, if the honey originates in more than one Member State or third country that indication may be replaced with one of the following, as appropriate: "blend of EC honeys" "blend of non-EC honeys" "blend of EC and non-EC honeys". 3. b) For the purpose of Directive 79/112/EEC and in particular Articles 13, 14, 16 and 17 thereof, the particulars to be indicated according to subparagraph (a) shall be considered as indications according to Article 3 of that Directive. Article 2a In the case of baker's honey and filtered honey, bulk containers, packs and trade documents shall clearly indicate the full product name, as referred to in Annex I, Part 1, point (b) 8 and Part 3. Article 3 The Commission may adopt methods to permit verification of compliance of honey with the provisions of this Directive. These methods shall be adopted in accordance with the procedure laid down in Article 6(2). Until the adoption of such methods, Member States shall, whenever possible, use internationally recognised validated methods such as those approved by Codex Alimentarius to verify compliance with the provisions of this Directive. Article 4 For the products defined in Annex I, Member States shall not adopt national provisions not provided for by this Directive. Article 5 The measures necessary for the implementation of this instrument relating to the matters referred to below shall be adopted in accordance with the regulatory procedure set out in Article 6(2): - bringing this Directive into line with general Community legislation on foodstuffs; - adaptations to technical progress. Article 6 1. The Commission shall be assisted by the Standing Committee on Foodstuffs (hereinafter referred to as "the Committee"). 2. Where reference is made to this paragraph, Articles 5 and 7 of Decision 1999/468/EC shall apply. The period laid down in Article 5(6) of Decision 1999/468/EC shall be set at [three] months. 3. The Committee shall adopt its rules of procedure. Article 7 Directive 74/409/EEC is hereby repealed with effect from (18 months after the entry into force of this Directive). References to the repealed Directive shall be construed as references to this Directive. Article 8 Member States shall bring into force the laws, regulations and administrative provisions necessary to comply with this Directive before (18 months after the entry into force of this Directive). They shall immediately inform the Commission thereof. The provisions shall be applied so as to: - authorise the marketing of the products defined in Annex I if they conform to the definitions and rules laid down in this Directive, with effect from (18 months after the entry into force of this Directive); - prohibit the marketing of products which fail to conform to this Directive, with effect from (30 months after the entry into force of this Directive). However, the marketing of products which fail to conform to this Directive and labelled before (30 months after the entry into force of this Directive) in accordance with Directive 74/409/EEC shall be permitted until stocks are exhausted. When Member States adopt these provisions, these shall contain a reference to this Directive or shall be accompanied by such reference at the time of their official publication. The procedure for such reference shall be adopted by Member States. Article 9 This Directive shall enter into force on the twentieth day following that of its publication in the Official Journal of the European Communities. Article 10 This Directive is addressed to the Member States. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ANNEX I PRODUCT DESCRIPTIONS AND DEFINITIONS 1. Honey is the natural sweet substance produced by Apis mellifera bees from the nectar of plants or from secretions of living parts of plants or excretions of plant sucking insects on the living parts of plants, which the bees collect, transform by combining with specific substances of their own, deposit, dehydrate, store and leave in honeycombs to ripen and mature. 2. The main types of honey are as follows: (a) According to origin: 1. Blossom honey or Nectar honey Honey obtained from the nectar of plants. 2. Honeydew honey Honey obtained mainly from excretions of plant sucking insects (Hemiptera) on the living part of plants or secretions of living parts of plants. (b) According to mode of production and/or presentation: 3. Comb honey Honey stored by bees in the cells of freshly built broodless combs or thin comb foundation sheets made solely of beeswax and sold in sealed whole combs or sections of such combs. 4. Chunk honey or cut comb in honey Honey which contains one or more pieces of comb honey. 5. Drained honey Honey obtained by draining decapped broodless combs. 6. Extracted honey Honey obtained by centrifuging decapped broodless combs. 7. Pressed honey Honey obtained by pressing broodless combs with or without the application of moderate heat not exceeding 45°C. 8. Filtered honey Honey obtained by removing foreign inorganic or organic matter in such a way as to result in the significant removal of pollen. 3. Baker's honey Honey, which is a) suitable for industrial uses or as an ingredient in other foodstuffs which are then processed and b) may: - have a foreign taste or odour, or - have begun to ferment or have fermented, or - have been overheated. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ANNEX II COMPOSITION CRITERIA FOR HONEY Honey consists essentially of different sugars, predominantly fructose and glucose as well as other substances such as organic acids, enzymes and solid particles derived from honey collection. The colour of honey varies from nearly colourless to dark brown. The consistency can be fluid, viscous or partly to entirely crystallised. The flavour and aroma vary, but are derived from the plant origin. When placed on the market as honey or used in any product intended for human consumption, honey shall not have added to it any food ingredient, including food additives, nor shall any other additions be made other than honey. Honey must as far as possible, be free from organic or inorganic matters foreign to its composition. With the exception of point 3 of Annex I, it must not have any foreign tastes or odours, have begun to ferment, have an artificially changed acidity or have been heated in such a way that the natural enzymes have been either destroyed or significantly inactivated. Without prejudice to Annex I, part 2, point 8, no pollen or constituent particular to honey may be removed except where this is unavoidable in the removal of foreign inorganic or organic matter. When placed on the market as honey or used in any product intended for human consumption, honey must meet the following composition criteria: Sugar content 1.1 Fructose and glucose content (sum of both) - Blossom honey: not less than 60 g/100 g - Honeydew honey, blends of honeydew honey with blossom honey: not less than 45 g/100 g 1.2 Sucrose content - In general: not more than 5 g/100 g - False Acacia (Robinia pseudoacacia), Alfalfa (Medicago sativa), Menzies Banksia (Banksia menziesii), French honeysuckle (Hedysarum), Red Gum (Eucalyptus camadulensis), Leatherwood (Eucryphia lucida), Eucryphia milligani, Citrus spp. : not more than 10 g/100 g - Lavender (Lavandula spp.), Borage (Borago officinalis): not more than 15 g/100 g 2. Moisture content - In general: not more than 20% - Heather (Calluna) and baker's honey in general: not more than 23% - Baker's honey from heather (Calluna): not more than 25% 3. Water-insoluble content - In general: not more than 0.1 g/100 g - Pressed honey: not more than 0.5 g/100 g 4. Electrical Conductivity - Honey not listed below, and blends of these honeys: not more than 0.8 mS/cm - Honeydew and chestnut honey and blends of these except with those listed below: not less than 0.8 mS/cm - Exceptions: Strawberry tree (Arbutus unedo), Bell Heather (Erica), Eucalyptus, Lime (Tilia spp), Ling Heather (Calluna vulgaris), Manuka or Jelly bush (Leptospermum), Tea tree (Melaleuca spp.) 5. Free acid - In general: not more than 50 milli-equivalents acid per 1000 grammes - Baker's honey: not more than 80 milli-equivalents acid per 1000 grammes 6. Diastase activity and hydroxymethylfurfural content (HMF) determined after processing and blending (a) Diastase activity (Schade scale) - In general, except baker's honey: not less than 8 - Honeys with low natural enzyme content (e.g. citrus honeys) and an HMF content of not more than 15 mg/kg: not less than 3 (b) HMF - In general, except baker's honey: not more than 40 mg/kg (subject to the provisions of paragraph (a) second indent) - Honey of declared origin from regions with tropical climate and blends of these honeys: not more than 80 mg/kg <<<<<<<< Best regards, Gilles RATIA gilles.ratia@apiservices.com President of the Apimondia Standing Commission on Beekeeping Technology and Equipment ( http://www.apimondia.org ) Webmaster of the "Virtual Beekeeping Gallery" ( http://www.beekeeping.com ) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 08:27:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Roger Morse, help needed for review Comments: cc: mcfeeley@keynet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cross-posted for information purposes only: Roger Alfred Morse: Scholar, Expert on Bees Copyright 2000 Los Angeles Times Sunday, May 28, 2000 Roger Alfred Morse, 72, who turned a childhood interest in beekeeping into an encyclopedic knowledge that made him a highly regarded apiculturist. An entomology professor at Cornell University for more than 40 years, Morse was also a prolific author. His "The Complete Guide to Beekeeping" is one of the definitive works on the subject. He was born in Saugerties, N.Y. Morse's father, a superintendent of schools, kept bees as a hobby and instilled an interest in his son, who began keeping hives at age 10. Morse enrolled at Cornell University after serving in the Army during and after World War II. He received his bachelor's degree and doctorate from the school before joining the faculty. He become chairman of the entomology department in 1986. Morse also traveled extensively, often under the sponsorship of the U.S. Department of Agriculture, teaching beekeepers in Africa, South America and the Philippines how to improve their craft. In reporting his death, the New York Times noted that Morse was not impervious to bee stings. His daughter Susan said that four days before his death, Morse returned home sporting the evidence of another encounter with a bee. "He died with a little bee sting on his eye," she said. On May 12 at his home in Ithaca, N.Y. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 09:23:56 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Comb in glass jar In-Reply-To: <200006052012.QAA05533@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > To get the bees to put comb in a glass jar, take an inner cover and put a > hole in it the size of the jar's top (actually a little smaller). Put the > cover on and place the jar upside down over the hole. Cover the inner cover > hole. To get it done faster, you would have to do it during the honey flow > and keep the bees cramped up. I've never tried this trick, but from making lots and lots of comb honey, I have learned that bees draw comb best in the dark, so covering the jar would be wise. Another consideration is the heat of the sun in the jar on a hot day might otherwise melt the comb and even harm the bees. I should think that if I were doing this trick and had a chunk or two of nice new white burr comb handy, I would cut it to size and slide it in there to give them start. Of course the idea is -- after they are done, to allow the bees to leave the jar and fill it with fancy honey. Hmmmm . Maybe I'll try it sometime. allen -- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Package installation & performance experiments, winter loss, fondant feeding, Pierco vs. Permadent vs. dark comb, unwrapping bees, spring splitting tricks, AFB, varroa, protein patties, daily mumblings and more... Thousands served... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:05:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Kim Flottum, Editor Bee Culture" Subject: Re: Comb in glass jar In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You can customize the final comb if you want by placing starter strips of foundation in the jar to begin with. Cut small strips and stick them to the inside of the jar around the circumference, in stripes up and down, hanging from the top of the jar (the bottom actually), having them go from one side to the other, singly or in crosses or multistrips....your imagination is the only limitation. Let the bees draw the comb, fill then cap during a honey flow, certainly. Cover the jar with something easily removable (AL foil) to keep the outside clean while it is in the hive. Once capped, harvest, clean as good as possible then fill with liquid honey. Quart jars sell in the neighborhood of $10. each at some farmer's markets when made this way. Kim Flottum Editor, Bee Culture Magazine 1-800-289-7668 x3214 623 W. Liberty St. Medina OH 44256 http://www.airoot.com/beeculture/index.htm -----Original Message----- From: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology [mailto:BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu]On Behalf Of Allen Dick Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 11:24 AM To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: Re: Comb in glass jar > To get the bees to put comb in a glass jar, take an inner cover and put a > hole in it the size of the jar's top (actually a little smaller). Put the > cover on and place the jar upside down over the hole. Cover the inner cover > hole. To get it done faster, you would have to do it during the honey flow > and keep the bees cramped up. I've never tried this trick, but from making lots and lots of comb honey, I have learned that bees draw comb best in the dark, so covering the jar would be wise. Another consideration is the heat of the sun in the jar on a hot day might otherwise melt the comb and even harm the bees. I should think that if I were doing this trick and had a chunk or two of nice new white burr comb handy, I would cut it to size and slide it in there to give them start. Of course the idea is -- after they are done, to allow the bees to leave the jar and fill it with fancy honey. Hmmmm . Maybe I'll try it sometime. allen -- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Package installation & performance experiments, winter loss, fondant feeding, Pierco vs. Permadent vs. dark comb, unwrapping bees, spring splitting tricks, AFB, varroa, protein patties, daily mumblings and more... Thousands served... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:02:04 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: Re: Concrete Hive Boxes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg Hankins wrote: > If anyone else has encountered concrete hives or has info to share, I'd be > interested. During WWII asbestos cement hives were made in South Africa. They worked well, but were extremely easy to break. They are now in great demand by beekeepers as postal boxes! In Paarl near Cape Town, in South Africa, Michael Kriel has patented a concrete hive. He has a base that incorporates a stand (much like a low stool that the bodies sit on), and a single size body ("shallow" super) as a standard deep is too heavy to move.. He packs bodies on top of one another for a brood chamber with deep frames, and then adds shallow supers with shallow frames for supers (again deeps are too heavy). A very efficient design. The base has a link-set incorporated in the material to allow the hive to be locked. The main motivation for the design is to counter vandalism, which is now rife. This design is fine if you do not provide pollination services! Robert Post ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 01:24:50 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home sweet home Subject: Re: demaree help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i was waiting for ansers to...notting on the list so i look in my books [[seen you have to look for The American Bee Journal of 21 april, 1892...;-)]] and it's said: you can do that with only very very big hives the yong ones in the upper have to build a new foudations but when they are needed to warm the brood belowe.... they can't build...;-) the text : later came the better snelgroove methode.... regards, jan Huestis wrote: > Can someone on the list = > with experience with demareeing give me advice on what to do next? Any = > help would bee appreciated. > > Clayton Huestis > Crown Point, NY -- Jan Tempelman Kerkstraat 53 NL 7471 AG Goor xx.31.(0)547.275788 http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:37:57 -0800 Reply-To: cherubini@mindspring.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Cherubini Subject: New study finds butterflies unharmed by GMO corn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CHICAGO, June 6 (Reuters) - The main type of genetically modified (GMO) corn used in the United States poses no threat to one common butterfly, according to a study by University of Illinois researchers published on Tuesday. The scientists monitored populations of black swallowtail butterflies by a field planted with genetically altered corn and found no relationship between the insects' mortality and pollen from the corn. ``We found that many caterpillars died but not, as far as we could tell, due to anything connected to the corn or the corn pollen,'' said May Berenbaum, head of the university's entomology department. Berenbaum cited spiders, carnivorous insects and other environmental factors as the main causes of death. The Illinois researchers conducted studies in the field and in a laboratory. Their report was published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The findings differ sharply from a May 1999 report in which Cornell University researchers said laboratory tests showed pollen from genetically altered corn harmed Monarch caterpillars. The Cornell report last year provided fuel for opponents of gene-altered crops, some of whom adopted the Monarch butterfly as a symbol of protest. On Tuesday, the Illinois study findings were hailed by an industry trade group as a victory for biotechnology. ``This new study, conducted under actual field conditions, should help clip the wings of last year's stories hypothesizing negative effects of Bt corn on monarch butterflies,'' said Dr. L. Val Giddings, vice president for food and agriculture of the Biotechnology Industry Organisation (BIO). In the field, the Illinois researchers studied a variety of GMO corn produced by Pioneer Hi-Bred International Inc., a subsidiary of DuPont Co (NYSE:DD - news). Known as Bt corn, the plants carry a gene from a soil bacterium that enables them to produce their own insecticide. The Bt technology -- used in 15.6 million acres of 20 percent of U.S. corn plantings this summer --was designed to protect corn plants against the European corn borer, a costly pest. But the Cornell study sparked fears about the effects of such GMO corn on non-target insects. One conclusion of the study, Berenbaum said, is that growers may be able to customise their corn crop by using different genetic modifications, known as ``events.'' ``There are ways to reduce the risk to non-target organisms at the very least by event selection,'' she said, just as farmers customise their use of conventional insecticides depending on environmental risks. Berenbaum said her team chose to focus on the black swallowtail because her department has years of expertise with the species, which is common throughout eastern North America. Like the Monarch, the black swallowtail feeds on plants located along the narrow strips between corn fields and roads. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 05:01:21 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: SMOKE SUBSTITUTE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It depends what your breath smells like. At a recent apiary meeting one person who had eaten a garlic-laced meal had bees constantly trying to sting him through his veil while the rest of us were left along. There is no such thing as a little garlic. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 08:00:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Swarming (was Drawing Foundation) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Marc wrote: "I am trying to resolve a problem. I had hives swarm due to congestion. There was not adequate laying space in the brood chambers, the brood chambers had too much nectar and honey. ... Advice will be greatly appreciated. I created the mess by not monitoring them as closely as I should have. Now I need to figure out how to provide more laying space without extracting the deep frames." First, you didn't create the mess. Bees swarm naturally, when left alone. Second, the problem of congestion and not enough laying room is actually solved -- the bees swarmed. (No more congestion, no more egg laying for now). After a hive swarms, there aren't enough bees to do much useful work. Normally, one simply leaves them alone until they build back up. The hatching brood will provide room for the new queen when she begins to lay. Foundation is best drawn out in supers above the brood nest. Foundation should be used sparingly in the brood nest, only a few frames at a time. To provide more room for the queen, empty black combs are much better, as the bees will use these right away. If you find yourself with a lot of honey in old combs and no way of extracting it, try putting these frames *under* the brood in the spring and the bees may clean it out. Swarming is a mystery that no one has really solved. Some hives get congested and don't swarm. Some years there is much more swarming than others. A lot of it is environmental. Don't blame yourself. However, it is much easier to manage bees if the frames are all the same size. Even so, the goal of not extracting the honey out of the brood nest is a good one, since this honey is more likely to be tainted by fluvalinate and terramycin, than the fresh honey in the supers. -- Peter Borst plb6@cornell.edu http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/plb6/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 00:51:37 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: From sci.agriculture.beekeeping In-Reply-To: <200006051620.MAA28338@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200006051620.MAA28338@listserv.albany.edu>, Robert Brenchley writes ><tracheal mites. >> > > If this is the case, why was A. mellifera mellifera in Britain so >susceptible in 1920? There are many myths in beekeeping and this was one. Read Beowulf Cooper's The Honeybees of the British Isles BIBBA 1986 for a summary of his findings. From memory it was more the crosses with Italians and the Italians which were susceptible to the IOW disease. The native dark bee is alive and well, though mongrelised somewhat, except where natural selection kept it going (before varroa). For example in Scotland, Murray MacGregor's Carniolan crosses which hew uses in his migratory setup revert over the years to native and he introduces new Carniolans. Here in West Cornwall we have little sign of acarine damage. Nosema is more obvious and a new pocket of European Foul brood is proving difficult to eradicate. Brother Adam is one of the main proponents of the "native bee is dead" myth. The IOW disease turns out to be one of the viruses which are propagated rather well by varroa, I think it is now thought to be the Slow Paralysis Virus which caused it. Acarine may well have been the stimulus. -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 08:48:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: The Honeybees of the British Isles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" James Kilty wrote in a submission titled Subject: Re: From sci.agriculture.beekeeping: > The IOW disease turns out to be one of the viruses which are propagated > rather well by varroa, I think it is now thought to be the Slow > Paralysis Virus which caused it. Acarine may well have been the > stimulus. I'm a bit confused by this. My interpretation is that James is saying that IOW disease endemic in Britian in the 1920s may have been vectored by acarine but now is believed to be the Slow Paralysis Virus (SPV) which is being spread by varroa. Actually, I'm not sure what is being said. Perhaps that SPV has always been around, acarine vectored the outbreak in the '20s and that varroa is a more efficient vector today? James, if you will, please set me straight. I have not read Beowulf Cooper's writings. Having read some of Brother Adam's writings I thought Britain's bee populations were left quite devastated by IOW disease and Brother Adam searched Europe, Northern Africa and the Middle East for genetic material to breed with the survivors. Does Mr. Cooper assert that perhaps things would have been better off without Borther Adam's importation of genetic material? Admittedly I am not up to snuff on BIBBA's (Bee Improvement and Bee Breeders Association) stance on the issue. I think one of their goals is to reestablish the native dark bee. Is the intent to "filter out mongrel genes" or to select from existing stock the characteristics that are most desireable while concentrating towards those attributed to the native dark bee? Any enlightenment will be appreciated. Sincerely, Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 09:20:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Drawing Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >What is the best way to get the bees to draw out the foundation? >Will they draw it out of necessity since there will be limited >space to lay? Should I feed to stimulate wax formation? Bees will need at least two things in order to draw out foundation: 1) Raw materials. A nectar flow or feeding them syrup. 2) A need for space. So don't put on more than one super of foundation at once. As for the deep frames you have down in the brood nest full of honey, try a capping scratcher on a small area of one near the center of the hive. Open about a four inch square area and see if the bees will clean out the honey and move it up. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 06:52:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: sonic debuggers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by beckwards@JUNO.COM to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove delivery routing error messages caused by sending the original post to BEE-L@listservE.albany.edu . There is no trailing 'E' in listserv . ----------------- Original message (ID=DB5C721B) (48 lines) ------------------- To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:06:30 -0400 Subject: sonic debuggers From: Becky boehm Hello out there. I have been asked to put in a observation hive near here and have a question. There are some of those sonic insect repellers where this hive will go and I have misgivings about this project. Has anyone any experience with these devices and honeybees? I sure do not want them(the bees ) to leave because of the insect repellers. Thanks in advance Al Boehm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 10:32:00 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HStarJE@AOL.COM Subject: Re: cement hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of course there may be some advantages, but for disadvantages would'nt cement (concrete) hives be very poor insulators? Cesar Flores Colorado p.s. thanks for all the replies about comb in jars ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:19:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thomas Vic VM Subject: FUNGICIDES AND BEES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" A good reference for bee toxicity can be found in the Wildlife Toxicity section of the Farm Chemicals Handbook published by Meister Publishing Company, Willoughby, Ohio. Of the five fungicides Allen Dick asked about only Tatoo which contains mancozeb is listed as moderately toxic to bees. The other four Benlate, Bravo 500, Ronilan EG and Roval are listed as practically non-toxic. When in doubt it it probably a good idea to contact the manufacturer of the product. I'm told that spraying bees with water containing a surfactant or detergent can kill bees by a chilling effect. If this is true, could this explain the incident that Ian Farber recalled with Bravo 500 on a ginsing crop in BC? Vic Thomas, Eastern Pennsylvania ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 20:33:28 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Drone escapes Comments: To: irishbeekeeping@listbot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I am presently experimenting with a two queen hive system, where the bees will be common to the two hives so there is only one entrance (in the lower hive). The claim is made that since two queens are contributing brood it will end up as a massively strong colony. I placed a queenright hive on top of another queen right hive, separated by newspaper and a queen excluder. The problem is, that drones will be trapped in the top hive, and I will have to let them out every few days. However the unfortunate insects may still be killed in numbers as they get stuck in the queen excluder, and I wish to try to avoid this, and also the necessity to let them out. I seem to remember a device called a drone escape somewhere whereby the drones could be allowed to escape by a circuitous route a bit like a Canadian clearer board I think. Has anybody any info on this particular item as it would be very helpful to me now?. Thanks for any assistance Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18