From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 07:40:06 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05014 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:40:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00142 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:43:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141243.HAA00142@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:42:58 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0007D" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 117488 Lines: 2571 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 09:24:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: fwd:Update Va. Killer bees Comments: cc: RDavisBFG@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Blue Taz37 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 4:49 PM Subject: Update Va. Killer bees Ok, Guys...A swarm of aggressive bees that killed a goat has been indentified as Africanized bees. They are also reluctant to speculate much on How Africanized honeybees, an Ill-tempered hybrid of African bees, found their way to the area. They did say it had to be a case of "human-assisted transport". or hives hitching a ride on ships, tractor-trailers ( I-64 is about mile there) and train cars. They were apparently a mixed colony said Day, who explained that old, abandoned bee hives on Downey's property had been taken over by European honeybees. The Africanized bees were found "bearding" or hanging in a clump' outside the hive. " it appears that Africanized bees were taking over the European colony," said Day. Back in January 96' said a swarm of Africanized honeybees was found in Maine and traced back to a ship that had last docked in Norfolk, Va. Those bees were simply put outside, where they froze. Also said there have been four human-assisted transports of Africanized bees in the Midwest and Mid-Atlantic areas of the country since Jan. 2000. One in Huntington, West Va. involved a hive found in a boxcar that came from San Antonio and is believed to have originated in Brazil. USDA officials said two nests were identified in Illinois, but Scott Frank of the Illinois Agriculture Department said one in Decatur involved bees that were already dead and he is unaware of a second finding. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 21:56:29 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Apimondia in 2005 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At our recent Australian Honey Bee Industry Council (AHBIC) meeting, it = was decided that Australia should submit a bid for the 2005 Apimondia. = AHBIC is the peak body for the Australia beekeeping industry and = information is available at www.honeybee.org.au=20 Melbourne is the proposed venue for holding Apimondia. AHBIC will be = formally submitting its bid at Apimondia in Durban in 2001. Australia is a great place to visit and has some very unique beekeeping = practices which I am sure overseas visitors will be keen to see. When = the Olympics are on this year in Sydney, you will see many aspects of = Australia from the tourist point of view. I am part of the Bid Committee and we will be looking to our friends in = many countries to help in our bid. If you need any further information, = feel free to contact me. Yes I am sure we will be able to organise a = meeting for all Bee-ler's as was the case in Vancouver. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA APIMONDIA FOR AUSTRALIA IN 2005 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 01:56:35 +0200 Reply-To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Nordic beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello beekepers! At Apimondia in Vancouver CA a publication was put up for free about beekeeping in scandinavia. You can get this as a PDF file (Adobe Acrobat) on my webside. While you are at it take a look at the Whats new page to see what is goingg on with the EDBi beekeeping sogtware. I have also made online a bugreport page and a suggestion page to make it eseay for you to get bugs fixed and suggestion brought into new editions of the software. The hot news is paperfree hivenote taking. Please help me to get this software the best you can get. best regards -- EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://apimo.dk (USA) mailto:Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 18:25:01 -0500 Reply-To: Fr-Athanasios Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Fr-Athanasios Subject: mites? Greetings to all, Today on one my hives top side of the tray (below the screen) I noticed for the first time a few very small (barely visible with my reading glasses) insects. They were white to light cream color, looked like very tiny spiders and moved fairly fast. Are these some kind of a mite? There is no spider nest of any kind in there, and in all my 53 years been raised in the country, have never seen anything like this. Is that what these bee mites look like? Thanks for the help, + Fr. Athanasios ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 11:11:22 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Bee Beard MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trevor, (Snip) > Second, why in the world would you want to subject your face and neck to the > possibility of being stung, I fear that the bee beard is the same type of > "rite of passage" as kissing a rattlesnake is for the rattlesnake round-up > folks. I have done half a dozen of so "bee beards" over the years. I have never received a sting as a result of the beard. Once someone helping mashed as bee on my finger, and I got stung, but never from the beard. If you think about the status of a homeless cluster, you will realize the likelihood of a sting is small. >From the time I began keeping bees I was interested in doing a bee beard. It was not, in my opinion, any sort of "rite-of-passage." I suppose you could look at it any way you want. I think of the remainder of the beards I've done as graphic illustrations of the nature of the honeybee. Their nature is not to try to sting anything they can find. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 21:31:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lucinda Sewell Subject: The end product. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit More musings... The more you refine your product to your customers needs the more value it holds for them. The most expensive ingredient in Nougat is Honey. Adding almonds and a little flour to honey makes turron, a Spanish delicacy. The best way to add value to any crop is probably to ferment it...By laws and skills permitting. "A book of Honey" by Eva Crane (ISBN 0 19 217657 9 Oxford University Press) has numerous recipes that could be explored by beekeepers wishing to up their share of the final profits from their product. Niche markets I'm sure...but Almonds do grow in "The New World". Who knows, Spanish people could be only too happy to buy tons of Californian Turron! John Sewell ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 07:35:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Clarence Mabry Subject: The Tea Olive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Does anyone know if honeybees will work the Tea Olive Bush? If not what are some ideas for a flowering hedge that the honeybees will work? Location - midlands of South Carolina. Thanks, Clarence in Aiken ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 17:35:45 +1200 Reply-To: "bryan@honeynz.co.nz" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bryan Clements Organization: Waikato Honey Products Ltd. Subject: Re: Bee Beard instructions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bee Beards are fun and do make a good photo. When I do one I rig it in my favour by doing the following. Do it at a time of year when the bees are not robbing. Feed the hive for two days just to help keep them happy. Pick a hive with bees that are quiet The day before you do the bee beard shift the hive about 500 yards to the photo location to loose the old cranky felid bees. Leave a hive in its place to pick up the drift bees. On the day find the queen and cage her. Get fine fishing line and tie the cage under the chin and attached to the ears. Block the nose and ears with cotton wool. Smear petroleum jelly around the eyes. Breath through your teeth. Prior to this preparation and after finding the queen shake about a gallon of bees off the brood in to a cardboard box. Have a smoker handy for gentle use, also a hand held spray mister fill of water. Find a turkey feather, best found the day before. Your helper is important because they will need to be prepared to scrape that sting of your nose and to groom the bees into shape using the feather. The odd mist with water might be needed but don't use smoke near the eyes. Once you have the queen under the chin and the cotton wool in place, pick up you cardboard box of bees and gently shake them on to your upper chest. They will form up in about 10 minutes. I don't often get a sting putting them on but getting them off is more difficult. After the photos have been taken shake your self in to the box after first removing the queen by cutting the fishing line or by ripping off your ear. A vacuum cleaner is a handy tool to clean up. The first bee beard I did when really well. The photos were all taken with great care. When the photos were developed I was disappointed to see these two large white things running out my nose! My heavy breathing had dislodged the cotton wool and the photographer did not have the presence of mind to tell me. You will have seen children with a bad runny nose, well my photos looked just like that. the photos were later improved with an air brush so all was not lost. Have fun Bryan Clements www.honeynz.co.nz -----Original Message----- From: HStarJE@AOL.COM [SMTP:HStarJE@AOL.COM] Sent: Wednesday, 19 July 2000 15:31 To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: Bee Beard Hello I am thinking about doing a bee beard for the first time. Before I get up enough courage to try it I thought I better get some advice. Can anyone offer some of the finer points to this artform? (yes Allen, I have already checked the archives and am asking for even more info) Cesar Flores Colorado, USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 17:50:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Kosher honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is correct. In general, Jewish purity laws forbid contact with dead things; contact with a corpse renders the individual ritually unclean, while food which has been in contact with dead things is impure (ie non-kosher) and may not be eaten. I am not familiar with the specifics of rabbinical law, but anyone wishing to produce kosher honey should contact an Orthodox rabbi for guidance. On another subject, I am receiving the BEE-L digest as usual, but have been unable to access the site for several days. Is anyone else having problems, or is it just me? Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 17:01:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Here I Go Again...farm stands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/20/00 10:17:07 PM, GImasterBK@AOL.COM writes: << They don't compare prices at a grocery store, and people will pay a good price for a quality honey, well packaged, and well PRESENTED. >> Here's a question from a neophyte wholesaler who just bottled and sold a harvest off to several farm stands: How much of our quality, niche product (my label and packaging are attractive, distinctive) will be bought by people who will slowly consume one jar over the course of a year, and how much is bought by people who will keep buying because it is a regular part of their diet? Will honey sales be brisk at first from the farm stands and then taper off as the season goes on, or will regulars keep sales going, or will there be a rush at the end of the season as people stock up for the rest of the year? I'm interested in what patterns beekeepers have noticed in farm stand retail sales through harvest season. One farm stand operator, who is not selling my brand, told me the honey just sits there and doesn't get bought until the fall. Perhaps all sales patterns are local and generalizations can't be made, but I'm curious what others' experiences are with this (The real question behind this is how often and how much am I going to need to resupply these particular accounts). ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 11:14:05 -0400 Reply-To: Charles Harper Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: mites? Comments: To: Fr-Athanasios In-Reply-To: <200007231603.MAA03036@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 22 Jul 2000 18:25:01 -0500, Fr-Athanasios wrote: >. Is that what these bee mites look >like? Varroa mites are dark in color and are arachnids (8 legs). Harper's Honey Farm Charles Harper Carencro LA 1000+ Hives ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 11:16:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: alacat Subject: Bee Beard MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom and others, Out of curiosity, is anyone aware of folks "wearing" bee beards consisting of Africanized honey bees? Would their behaviour be similarly docile as what Tom has described, i.e., "never receiving a sting over the years". Thanks. Lawrence Tom Elliott wrote: > (Snip) > I have done half a dozen of so "bee beards" over the years. I have never > received a sting as a result of the beard. Once someone helping mashed as bee > on my finger, and I got stung, but never from the beard. If you think about the > status of a homeless cluster, you will realize the likelihood of a sting is > small. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 11:12:02 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "J.F. Hensler" Subject: Re: The Tea Olive Comments: To: Clarence Mabry Clarence Mabry wrote: Yo Clarence: I'm not sure what climate zone the midlands of SC would be but check out http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/ent/notes/Beekeeping/bee2b.html and you should be able to find something that will work for your area... Skip Skip & Christy Hensler THE ROCK GARDEN Newport, Wash. http://www.povn.com/rock ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 18:17:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darrells Subject: Re: Labelling Honey In-Reply-To: <200007190439.AAA17841@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit C Crowell said "I label my honey as to the season and the year, saying only "wildflowers" as the floral source. For example, Spring '2000 Honey from Wildflowers". I use a similar method of labelling: 2000 Summer Blossom Honey, 2000 Late Summer Blossom Honey, 2000 Autumn Blossom Honey. I leave an information sheet on my 'serve yourself' honey table, listing the major floral sources in the honies for sale. For example; sweet clover in my summer honey and goldenrod and asters in the fall honey. I find that most people return to ask for summer blossom honey because they enjoyed the jar they bought earlier this season or last year. Customers will often ask which is better? I usually describe the difference in the honies, but say it is a matter of taste. The usual response is the purchase of a jar of each. I use similar labels on my cut comb honey. Bob Darrell RR#2 Caledon Ontario Canada 80W 44N ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 19:08:04 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Kosher honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been selling honey to a kosher food manufacturor for years. My customer requires kosher certification from all their vendors, but not from me. I was told that honey is inherently kosher and no certificate would be required. A spec sheet was all they asked for. Robert Brenchley wrote: > > > . I am not familiar with the specifics of rabbinical law, but > anyone wishing to produce kosher honey should contact an Orthodox rabbi for > guidance. > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 07:45:10 +0800 Reply-To: "Joel F. Magsaysay" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Joel F. Magsaysay" Organization: ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE FARMS Subject: bee beard addendum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cesar, Bryan Clements has instructions today that are excellent. May I add a little to this. Please remember that you should have assistants that are experienced beekeepers 2 or 3 would be ideal. Here is a safe way to take the bee beard off. Position the queenless hive of bees on the floor in front of you. Stand on a chair and spray the bee beard with water. Jump to the ground and land with your body as rigid as possible. This will dislodge the bee beard almost completely. Make sure that the bee beard falls into the beehive. You can do this by pointing your chin at it as you jump. Put the queen cage onto the top bars. Drill a hole in the queen candy and put the cage in between the top bars. Close the beehive and put it back in its original position. Use a bee brush to clean up stray bees - engorged and wet bees will not respond readily to a smoker. PS. Chew some gum and put vaseline on your lips. Good luck and pray for good weather! Joel F. Magsaysay joel@ilogmaria.com ilogmria@cav.pworld.net.ph ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE FARMS Cavite Highlands, Silang, Cavite ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 09:24:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sandy Kear Subject: We Have a Winner! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The family went to the Saratoga County Fair last night, and I noticed that our own Aaron Morris won 2 blue ribbons for his round cut comb honey. Congratulations! Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 09:38:05 +0800 Reply-To: "Joel F. Magsaysay" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Joel F. Magsaysay" Organization: ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE FARMS Subject: Apivar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have experience with Apivar? Joel F. Magsaysay joel@ilogmaria.com ilogmria@cav.pworld.net.ph ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE FARMS Cavite Highlands, Silang, Cavite ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 21:42:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C.Crowell" Subject: Re: Kosher honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For many Jews honey is inherently kosher, much like fruits and vegetables. However, there are groups (particularly the Orthodox Jews) who prefer that most processed foods have kosher certification, meaning that the processing of the food has undergone a degree of supervision to ensure that the result is kosher. Honey is intrinsically parve, meaning neutral, not part of the meat or dairy group. If you use a pot used to prepare food in either of those two groups to prepare your honey, then the honey will lose its neutral property. Worse, if you use a pot or utensils that were used to prepare non-kosher foods (shellfish, lobster, or pork) your'e hosed. It also causes problems if you are not Jewish yourself and use these items to produce things with grapes (jelly or wine). Most people, Jews and otherwise, really have no idea of how honey is processed and thus they are ignorant of these sorts of problems. Dead bees for example, are rather rare and in most cases can be pulled out before coming into the extractor. To suggest that the strainer is used mostly to separate the "dead bee parts" instead of the stray cappings and bits of comb is flirting with disaster. You can be aware of all of these rules, but it still is best if you ask a rabbi to "supervise" who is willing to produce a certificate that the resulting product is kosher. Your best bet is to find a local rabbi and customer who will do this for a modest fee. Make him an expert on bees and honey and it will work out well for you both. If you contact the major organizations that supervise food processors for kosher certification, such as Kosher Overseers of America, or the Conservative Union, they will want very substantial fees up front and well as in some cases, the signing of a non-disclosure agreement. Unless you are moving tons of honey to a very narrow market it's not worth it (not for me). Contrary to popular belief, there is no "blessing" by the rabbi. They just have their own peculiar rules for food preparation rooted in the history of their beliefs. I'm not Jewish but have made an effort to get to know more about this since for the Jews honey is a special gift - for me also. It is in fact a rare kosher food that is produced by a non-kosher insect (you can't eat the bees themselves - only their honey). /C.Crowell ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 22:12:20 -0600 Reply-To: flightdeck1@earthlink.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: unusual animals uncovered in beehives? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While opening some hives today I found a curiousity unheard of from any bee friends. Somehow a baby garden snake found it's way to the top of a deep and was promptly killed there by the bees. It was curled around a frame leaving a tell-tale of it's unfortunate demise. Anyone else found unusual animals creeping into their hives? Matthew Westall Castle Rock, CO - USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 23:45:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: alacat Subject: Re: unusual animals uncovered in beehives? Comments: To: flightdeck@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matthew, I'd really like to know if the bees had begun to cover the snake with propolis or if they already had? Since they cannot remove the intruder, it is my understanding they would "embalm" the critter in order to protect the hive from infection and disease> Lawrence Matthew wrote: > While opening some hives today I found a curiousity unheard of from any bee > friends. Somehow a baby garden snake found it's way to the top of a deep and > was promptly killed there by the bees. It was curled around a frame leaving a > tell-tale of it's unfortunate demise. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 00:57:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HStarJE@AOL.COM Subject: Re; farm stands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/23/00 10:02:59 PM Mountain Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: > One farm stand operator, who is not > selling my brand, told me the honey just sits there and doesn't get bought > until the fall Are they offering samples? This may be the single most critical sales generator for impulse purchases. Most honey sold in small quantities is an impulse purchase. If it is good they will be compelled. Cesar Flores ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 00:49:13 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HStarJE@AOL.COM Subject: farm stands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/23/00 10:02:59 PM Mountain Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: > I'm interested in what patterns beekeepers have noticed in farm stand > retail sales through harvest season Some people buy every week, some much less frequently. I think it helps alot to sell in one pound or less containers to keep people coming back, keep the unit price low and margin high. They say they want large containers but I think the consumer behavior leans toward more frequent purchases of smaller volumes. I see no advantage to retailing large containers. The one pound consumer is preferable in the long run. People who consume honey infrequently are always concerned about shelf life. Reassuring them about that usually closes the sale. For small producers, emphasizing higher quality and an appropriately high retail price is the way to go, (err on the high side of price, you may be surprised by what people will be happy to pay for quality). A higher price makes up for any loss in sales volume. Direct beekeeper contact with consumer and alot of education is also important. Consumer ignorance about honey is profound. People love to ask questions about bees and then get a kick out of buying from the beekeeper. Educated people consume more honey. Cesar Flores ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 22:23:48 PST Reply-To: haymedhon@telus.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Hancock Subject: First Prize I too would like to congratulate Aaron Morris on his blue ribbons. I assume blue is first in the US. Here in Canada it is traditional for red ribbons to indicate first prize - must bee our Communist streak coming out. Whenever I see someone excelling in their field it reminds me of a Mark Twain line which I can't remember that went something like 'There's nothing more annoying than a good example'. I sometimes sell honey at fairs and farmers markets and have been gleaning new facts from recent posts to spice up my sales pitch. Stuff like a real beekeeper needs to be fearless and instinctive - and sometimes stuff cotton balls up his/her nose and learn how to point their chins when jumping off chairs (I would like to nominate former Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney as having the best bee-beard chin in North America). Always fearless, Always instinctive, Ted ================================================================= Internet service provided by telus.net http://www.telus.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 07:52:51 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Green Subject: Re: farm stands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have 12# containers, down to half pound containers. I sell them all. Often a customer will start with a small container to test me out, then when they discover the quality they want the more economical larger containers. Customers will experiment also with the flavored honeys and darker honeys and then buy in larger quanities. It surprises me that the range of consumer requirements are so varied. Everything sells to somebody. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 05:26:39 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Multicoloured bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just over a month ago I installed a nucleus of Italian crosses, with a distinctive golden stripe on the abdomen. I soon found them being robbed by black bees, and closed up the entrance. After a week or so I opened it again. A few days ago I was inspecting the broodchamber, when I noticed a few black bees inside. I assumed these to be robbers and closed up the entrance again. However, since then I have seen black bees bringing in pollen and fanning. This does not seem like robbing so what is going on? Could this be a case of a queen having mated with drones of different races, and producing different coloured offspring? Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 09:09:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Colors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert sees different colored bees in the hive and asks "Could this be a case of a queen having mated with drones of different races, and producing different coloured offspring?" Yes, that is exactly what is going on. In fact, it is not at all uncommon. If a beekeeper is breeding queens, seeing bees of the same color in a hive is a sign that stray drones are not getting through. On the other hand, seeing different colors is a sign that more isolation is needed! Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 08:58:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Multicoloured bees Robert Brenchley asks: "Could this be a case of a queen having mated with drones of different races, and producing different coloured offspring?" Yes, that is the most likely explanation. Of course a queen usually mates naturally with many drones, so there will be a number of cohorts of bees in the hive that will be half sisters. Not only may they have different habits and behaviors, but they also can be phenotypically different. I had a hive of Italian bees (my first hive) that superseded the queen, and after the new queen started producing offspring in earnest, about half were the yellow Italian and half where dark German (as we call them here). By deduction, it was obviously a case of the new queen having mated with drones of different races. The bees don't care. They are all half sisters with the same mother. It may result in the overall hive exhibiting a greater range of behaviors and can have positive results if the behaviors exhibited are desired behaviors. Layne Westover, College Station, Texas, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 08:13:32 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Multicoloured bees In-Reply-To: <200007241212.IAA23480@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > A few days ago I was inspecting the broodchamber, when I noticed a few black > bees inside. I assumed these to be robbers and closed up the entrance again. > However, since then I have seen black bees bringing in pollen and fanning. > This does not seem like robbing so what is going on? The mating of the queen with different coloured drones is one possible explanation, but drifting is also quite normal if there are other hives nearby. Bees often get confused about the location of their own hive on windy days or when a beekeeper parks in front of the hives for a few minutes. I also think individual bees sometimes decide they do not like their native hive and emigrate to the neighbouring hive. In times of plenty, any bee that arrives may be accepted by most hives. This includes queens, workers and drones. Drones in particular may come and go over wide areas without hassle, but as many as 10% of workers normally drift in apiaries -- depending on layout. Another possibility is trucks with bees going by on the roads and losing bees along the way. Some time back Jerry mentioned some observations showing that many bees find any local hives within miles in a very short time when lost off trucks in good weather, and are accepted by them. allen -- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Package installation, performance experiments, winter loss, fondant feeding, Pierco vs. Permadent vs. dark comb, unwrapping, splitting tricks, queen cells, AFB, varroa, protein patties, daily mumblings and more... Thousands served... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:20:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "john f. mesinger" Subject: Re: Multicoloured bees In-Reply-To: <200007241214.IAA23491@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I also have noted a tendency for robbers to reform[?] and join the hive they attacked. Italians from a distance tried robbing my carniolans. What a slaughter! Eventually they stopped the attack [too many losses?]. However, since then there have been some Italians working to bring in pollen and nectar in my hives. Of course, when I have allowed [not intentionally] a swarm, the replacements have mated with both carny and Italian drones. The results of my seeing a 60/40 mix of carnys and Italians has resulted in my ordering a new Coby Queen for the hive. John F. Mesinger jfm6f@unix.mail.virginia.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:40:10 -0600 Reply-To: flightdeck1@earthlink.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Multicolored Bees & detecting robbers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert, some of the best queens you can find have been inseminated from multiple races. Most queens take donors from 6-8 drones, some upwards of 15-16 (according to my queen rearing info). My experience is that hives with varying race do well and sometimes produce immense hives. Some are not so hot. Overall queens producing varied offspring seem easy to manage and adaptable, but I doubt you could select any particular charicteristic into a breeding program without first defining race. What's funny is the distinction in colors seem to disappear after the first year - or perhaps it's because I don't normally pay attention to breed once a hive is properly established. There's one hive with a 'beady' black queen I remember in particular, that gave up carniolan bees(grey) along with solid black bees - and I visited that hive a few days ago and found the bees are nearly solid carniolan. The queen may have been replaced by now. Just as a side point, that hive was over-wintered with 1 & 1/2 frames (!) inside a nuc placed outside a window at my house. This is no small challenge in my neck of the woods. If interested, check out the photos at ( http://www.beesource.com/eob/nucs.htm ). ROBBERS: A good way to tell if you have robbers is to watch how the bees land. Robbers will usually sway from side to side (without a change by you to the entrance) and walk in very timidly. Watch the landing board for defensive bees. If you have bees checking the smell/taste of every bee landing, your hive probably isn't being robbed. If you're still unsure, pop out the lowest frames of honey and look for evidence of robbing - jagged tears from bees ripping off cappings. Find nice neat comb and you can be certain the hive isn't being robbed. Matthew Westall - Castle Rock, CO ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:09:39 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Re; farm stands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/24/00 12:03:15 AM, HStarJE@AOL.COM writes: << Are they offering samples? This may be the single most critical sales generator for impulse purchases. >> What's a clean, no-mess, minimum-hassle way to offer honey samples? The farm stand operator doesn't want the honey shelf to be any more high maintenance than the rest of the store. I suppose honey stixs, but then the sample wouldn't be the same as the honey sold, unless you had honey stixs manufactured from your own honey. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:52:25 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Important: BEE-L Changes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As Aaron mentioned a few days ago, the archives have moved and all old links to articles or LISTSERV sites that are not yet updated will not work. I have received several emails wondering what happened, so hopefully things are working again. I have made repairs to the links from the BEE-L Information Page at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BEE-L/ and they should now all work. Please remember to reload (refresh) the page if your browser cache is set to remember visited pages. Then, please advise me if any links don't work for you now. PLEASE also remember to visit the page to learn the rules for posting to BEE-L if you are new, if you are unsure of our rules, or if you send a post to BEE-L and it disappears and never shows up on the list. Everything is explained there. If your post somehow fails to meet the guidelines usually no one will write you. Usually you have to figure it out yourself. Usually the problem is minor and can be fixed if you consult the guidelines and re-read the copy saved in your 'sent' box. PLEASE also make use of the archive search feature at http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l (or accessible from the previous link) if you are thinking of posting to BEE-L. This ensure you get some background on what has been said recently on the subject. In the archives, you will often find an instant answer to your query, and you will also get to know some of the list regulars better. You will be surprised how up-to-date some of the discussions -- even from ten years back -- seem if you forget when they were written. Any post -- even from years back -- is still alive and waiting for more input. That means you can reply to a thread that has been dead for years and get it going again. allen --- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Package installation, performance experiments, winter loss, fondant feeding, Pierco vs. Permadent vs. dark comb, unwrapping, splitting tricks, queen cells, AFB, varroa, protein patties, daily mumblings and more... Thousands served... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:06:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew Dubas Subject: Queen Mating flights Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do queens mate with bees from the same hive or from the same bee yard ? I was told by another beekeeper that queens on their mating flights go about 3-4 miles away to mate... is this true ? it just does not seem logical. Anyone have the answer Im looking for ? The reason is because I make my own queens from my own bee yards and was told that it is better to buy queens from breeders because they are mated properly and that my queens wont be mated properly because the queen leaves and goes out of range of my colonies and since the feral bee populations are next to zero that she will be a drone layer in no time... I have not had any problems with inadequately mated queens however I still would like to know more about the mating flight.. Andrew PS. Anyone whole sale comb honey in ross rounds ? please email me at sales@dubees.com Thanks ! ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:08:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew Dubas Subject: Re: Re; farm stands Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << What's a clean, no-mess, minimum-hassle way to offer honey samples? >> It is not perfect, but we just set up 12 oz squeeze bears and a cup with plastic spoons. ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 21:29:24 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: Re: Colors MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lloyd Spear wrote: >Yes, that is exactly what is going on. In fact, it is not at all uncommon. Methinks perhaps a bit hasty? A visit in situ could alter an opinion and guess made from afar. With recent research into the A.m. capensis problem, into drifting, it has come to light that, in our bees' case, a lot more drifting happens than was previously assumed. Robber bees could have been trapped inside the hive when it was closed and could have been *neutralised* as new occupants of the hive. Has dark coloured emerging brood been observed? Or are only adult foragers black? Robert Post ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 21:28:19 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: Re: Bee Beard MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit alacat wrote: > Out of curiosity, is anyone aware of folks "wearing" bee beards consisting of > Africanized honey bees? Would their behaviour be similarly docile as what Tom has > described, i.e., "never receiving a sting over the years". Bee beards are not part of the South African Culture !! We can handle Capensis with bare hands, but have never found the need to try suicide this way. I love the way one has to cut one's ears off to get the fishing line loose! That's probably the highlight of the event! Enjoy doing it guys! Robert Post ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 21:30:40 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: Re: Multicoloured bees MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > Another possibility is trucks with bees going by on the roads and losing bees > along the way. Some time back Jerry mentioned some observations showing that > many bees find any local hives within miles in a very short time when lost off > trucks in good weather, and are accepted by them. As a matter of fact - citing again the research into the capensis problem in the South African summer rainfall area - this has been the main cause for the spread of the capensis bee throughout the countryside. Each of these bees in our case, however, became a pseudo queen, disrupting colonies all along the migratory routes. Robert Post ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:45:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Re; farm stands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/24/00 3:12:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, beekeepr@EMAIL.COM writes: > << What's a clean, no-mess, minimum-hassle way to offer honey samples? >> > > > It is not perfect, but we just set up 12 oz squeeze bears and a cup with > plastic spoons. Bear in mind the yellow jacket problem come autumn and keep a covered container on hand. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 22:07:05 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hugo =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thon=E9?= Subject: Re: Apivar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Joel F. Magsaysay" wrote: > Does anyone have experience with Apivar? > Apivar is applied in the same way as Apistan, viz. plastic strips. These strips however must be placed between the brood combs in order to free the active component (amitraz) Apivar has been distributed in Belgium by official bee organizations since there are (supposed to be) fluvalinate resistant mites in some parts of Europe , i.e in 1998 en 1999. This year we should combine it with another product (perizine - cumaphos) that has te be applied in autumn. I used Apivar in 1998 en 1999, but this year I 'll stick to Apistan, as Apivar doesn't seem to be efficient. Apivar is also used in France. cheers, Hugo (half a bee) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:35:21 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ron Law Subject: Bee product update Comments: To: "nbalist@beekeeping.co.nz" , NZ Bkprs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a short note to let you know that I have obtained a 9-page document eminating from the Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration that proves beyond any doubt whatsoever that officials have officially authenticated the fraudulent research on royal jelly and officially rejected authentic, though somewhat flawed research. In the process they have rejected the New Zealand Minister of Health's 5-person scientific review of bee products. I was at a Trans-Taman Harmonisation meeting in Sydney on Friday with officials from both sides of the Tasman as well as industry. I managed to successfully drop the hand grenade into the meeting -- was told that it wasn't the appropriate forum!!!! I mentioned that we had raised the issue of the integrity of the royal jelly research with the prime ministers of both countries, with the health ministers, at least 8 senior officials on Australia, at Chatham House rules meetings, in letters, emails, faxes, in person. Mentioned that I had personally given copies of before and after alterations of official records to senior managers so that they could put things right quietly. Told them that we'd convinced a select committee headed by none other than the (now) NZ speaker of the house and had forced a ministerial scientific review that found against officialdom on all five terms of reference. I asked them what was the proper forum to challenge officials incorporating fraud into official records was. I also asked them how they could expect us to get into bed with Australia when their regulatory environment stunk so much. It is apparent that the Australian regulatory system was so bent on resisting change and on trying to justify wrong decision-making that it was prepared to resort to authenticating fraud in an attempt to legitimise its position. I'm still trying to work out why they were so upset? I suggested that they lookup the meaning of the term outrage in risk analysis documents. I've forwarded the document to a member of the Parliamentary Select Committee that recommended the revoking of the labelling regulations. Will keep you posted. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 00:22:22 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jeff Gooden Subject: Traveling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are going to be going on an extended stay visit in the Holland / Fennville / Grand Rapids, MI area starting next week. I would like to know if there are any clubs or organizations in the area that I could visit during my stay. If there are any individuals who would be interested in meeting with me to dicuss bees in that area it would be greatly appreciated. You can e mail me privately if you wish at... gooden5@aol.com Thank you, Jeff ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 22:39:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sandy Kear Subject: Re: Re; farm stands In-Reply-To: <3a.84a0891.26add253@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:09 PM 7/24/00 -0400, John Mitchell wrote: >In a message dated 7/24/00 12:03:15 AM, HStarJE@AOL.COM writes: > ><< Are they offering samples? This may be the single most critical sales >generator for impulse purchases. >> > > What's a clean, no-mess, minimum-hassle way to offer honey samples? The >farm stand operator doesn't want the honey shelf to be any more high >maintenance than the rest of the store. I suppose honey stixs, but then the >sample wouldn't be the same as the honey sold, unless you had honey stixs >manufactured from your own honey. Is there any source for gelatin balls that could be filled with honey, & sealed? I know that Mrs. Grasse's Soup uses something like that for a dry product, not sure how it would work for a liquid like honey. On a larger scale, such a product could also be marketed to restaurants as an alternative sweetener for tea & coffee and could be packaged for convenient home use (both of which also would increase the visibility of honey as a sweetener). Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:06:48 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Multicoloured bees In-Reply-To: <200007241407.KAA27287@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 >Robert Brenchley asks: "Could this be a case of a queen having mated with >drones of different races, and producing different coloured offspring?" > I would suggest drifting as the most likely siuation, although without full information it is hard to be certain. We get the same situation in reverse here. Our bees are mainly blacks, but from time to time we experiment with other types. Occasionally we try out a few yellower ones. Once the colony(ies) with yellow bees becomes established and the progeny of that queen begin to fly it is not long before you can spot some yellow bees in more or less every colony in the apiary. There are generally more of them the closer you are to the yellow colony, but they can crop up anywhere, particularly near ends of rows or nearest the current nectar source. These are not robbers or the result of cross matings, they are just bees going about their everyday business having adopted a home other than that in which they were raised. Drones seem to have very little colony loyalty at all, and congregate strongly in any colony raising queens. If your bees are all of one general type you probably never notice this phenomenon, but throw in a colony of radically different colour and it is immediately plain. In the UK it is often said that Italian bees are great robbers, but the dominant bee, at least in eastern Scotland, is black. Thus it is obvious if yellow bees are frequenting your dark hive, but not at all obvious if the visitors (or adopted residents) are identical in colour to the hives own bees. -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:28:29 -0500 Reply-To: cspacek@mail.ev1.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: curtis spacek Subject: honey prices/selling your own/NO WHINING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit goerge imirie certainly has the proper frame of mind.and all the other people have valid pionts as well.my point is/was beekeepers don't have to kill themselves to make a profit in beekeeping.be honest,original and don't follow as if you are sheep being led to slaughter.just because it seems easier to sell to packers at first glance,with a broader field of vision it becomes readily apparent a beekeeper can produce half as much honey and triple his gross income or better.If you can't sell all your honey,sell last years left-overs to the packers after you have harvested your fresh honey for this year.don't get caught short or you may lose customers.which is easier?working bees in july in 100deg heat or sitting in the ac bottling honey.which is greater,the distance from yard to yard or store to store in your city.which generates the greatest profit per mile?specialty honeys as sale blockers,you bet!!!I love the idea of a certain floral source outselling some packers blend of foreign honey.especially if I have 3 or 4 barrels of the stuff in my honey house.the profit will be mine and I will have beaten out the competition again.try it,it's a hoot.beekeepers are folding right and left and if we aren't careful and diligent there will be no polination,local honey,bee research,or US agriculture.there certainly are more people leaving beekeeping than are getting into it.attendance at meetings is ample proof,what were crowds if 100 or more 20 years ago have dwindled to 10-20 in attendance today.who cares if african bees are mean,that's what bee suits are for.they manage them in south america don't they.I have mean bees and if they produce 250 lbs in a 3 wk flow I'm happy to have them if they don't produce I requeen them.raise your own queens sell your own honey and you may really enjoy being a beekeeper,which also is a REAL HOOT!!!!!!! American Capitalist at Heart Curtis Spacek Fine Texas coastal region raw honey ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:46:07 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Henry Harris Organization: OVI Subject: Honey liqueur MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi every body I am looking for a nice honey liqueur. I have tried the internet, but with no luck.Is there somebody who can help me??? Thanks Henry Henry@moon.ovi.ac.za ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:14:10 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: Re; farm stands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BeeCrofter@AOL.COM wrote: > > In a message dated 7/24/00 3:12:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > beekeepr@EMAIL.COM writes: > > > << What's a clean, no-mess, minimum-hassle way to offer honey samples? >> > > > > > > It is not perfect, but we just set up 12 oz squeeze bears and a cup with > > plastic spoons. Hello all, The above meets all health codes in our state. We do 3-4 selling events a week from spring to fall and a few over the winter. Our health dept. will shut us down when we use straws or spoons and WE do not HAND the customer the straw/spoon with the honey allready on it. The reason is simple. People will double dip if its done any other way. Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:25:15 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: Apivar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hugo Thoné wrote: > > Hugo wrote > > Apivar has been distributed in Belgium by official bee organizations > since > there are (supposed to be) fluvalinate resistant mites in some parts of > Europe , > i.e in 1998 en 1999. Hello all, I would add to your post that in the test results i have seen for some unknown reason the mites resistant to fluvalinate have been resistant to amitraz. I find this puzzling as in the U.S. the old "Miticur" (amitraz) strips were very effective against the varroa mites. Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:39:28 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: honey prices/selling your own/NO WHINING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/25/00 2:20:21 AM, cspacek@MAIL.EV1.NET writes: << I love the idea of a certain floral source outselling some packers blend of foreign honey. >> What about "sale blocking" of other local beekeepers? When I approach farm stand operators who already have bought somebody else's local honey, the response I have gotten so far is, " Oh, we already sell local honey." The mentality of these folks seems to be all local honey is the same so it's redundant to carry more than one brand. It's not the same. Some sell unheated, unfiltered, the bees work different floral varieties, different beekeepers sell for different prices, etc. The product that has been handled and designed to be sold for $5 a jar is selling to a different customer than the product that is selling for $3 a jar, even if both are local honey. I propose that farm stand operators need to be better educated that honey is the "wine" of agricultural products, and as such, different fields and different "wineries" will produce products with diverse appeal and value. If I had not been networking prior to harvest season to develop some farm stand accounts, I would be out of luck now. I have no qualms about putting my honey up on the shelf next to somebody else's local honey. And the alternative to that is much worse. Because there are far more beekeepers than farmstands, many will be locked out of the farm stands, thereby further discouraging growth and interest in beekeeping, which eventually harms me as a beekeeper when beekeeping supply manufacturers raise their costs because they are selling to a smaller number of customers, or worse yet, the manufacturers go out of business. Another problem the farm stand operators seemed to have was that they had already bought the other person's honey wholesale, so they didn't want to undercut that investment by buying more honey wholesale. I offered to sell to one guy on consignment (leave 10 jars, and collect my price after he sells them). He wouldn't go for it, probably because he didn't want to get stuck holding the other guy's local honey at the end of the season. I also propose that farm stands should start selling honey on consignment only, so that the operator doesn't have to worry about getting stuck holding unsold product. That's not going to sit well with beekeeps who want their money now, but in the long run it will be better for beekeeping to make these markets more open to all. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:46:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Amee Abel Subject: Stings and local reactions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all. I am keeping two colonies of bees. Just began this spring and am having what I suppose is the typical learning curve. Hard pressed to keep up with enough equipment to keep the girls at home. Over the past four months, I have been stung a total of 3 times. The first went away within a few days with less redness than a mosquito bite. Three weeks ago, I was stung on the thumb. At first, it appeared to be nothing. The following day my thumb began to swell. By that evening my thumb had ballooned. By the next morning, it was purple and ITCHY! and my doctor put me on antibiotics in addition to antihistimines because she suspected it was infected. (Also insisted on updating my tetanus shot.) Later that day, I received a sting on the shin which didn't swell, but did over the course of the next 3 days become quite red and ITCHED! for about a week. Does anyone have experience with local bee sting reactions? Will they continue to get worse? Will I need to get a perscription for an epi-pen? Will my doctor start nagging me to get rid of the bees? So far, I have been working my bees wearing only a veil and occasionally gloves. (They are very gentle Starlines.) The day I got stung on the shin I was in shorts and sandals. Obviously, I'll have to get somewhat more serious about protective gear. Any suggestions as to what's "sting-proof" ? Has anybody tried the Tyvek suits? Thanks for the help and advice. --Amee Abel Abel's Apiaries "Happy Hives Making Wholesome Honey" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:49:57 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Stings and local reactions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/25/00 11:31:10 AM, aabel@MONAD.NET writes: << Will my doctor start nagging me to get rid of the bees? >> Not likely. Maybe nag you to get desensitization shots. I'm not willing to venture a guess if you are developing an allergy, but I'll share my anecdote. I'm allergic to yellowjackets. I received desensitization shots. They start with 1/100th of a full sting and then take you up to the equivalent of three stings. After that, they recommend periodic maintenance shots. I took the course of treatment up to 3 full yellowjacket stings and then opted not to have periodic maintenance shots. That was about 5 months ago. Yesterday, I got stung on the arm by a yellowjacket. Didn't get much more reaction than I get to a honeybee sting. I conclude that the desensitization treatment worked and the maintenance shots may be superfluous. However, I still keep an epi-pen handy. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:07:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Queen Mating flights In-Reply-To: <200007241908.PAA06169@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200007241908.PAA06169@listserv.albany.edu>, Andrew Dubas writes >Do queens mate with bees from the same hive or from the same bee yard ? There is such a thing as "Apiary vicinity mating" described by Beowulf Cooper in his "Honeybees of the British Isles". > I >was told by another beekeeper that queens on their mating flights go about >3-4 miles away to mate... is this true ? There are such things as local drone congregation areas and major (more distant) drone congregation areas which some beekeepers like to show off with tethered queens. Where these exist the queen enters and is immediately followed by a "comet" of drones. If she leaves it, drones don't seem to follow. > it just does not seem logical. The bees ore *old*. >Anyone have the answer Im looking for ? Try it and see. > The reason is because I make my own >queens from my own bee yards and was told that it is better to buy queens >from breeders because they are mated properly and that my queens wont be >mated properly because the queen leaves and goes out of range of my colonies >and since the feral bee populations are next to zero that she will be a >drone layer in no time... I have not had any problems with inadequately >mated queens however I still would like to know more about the mating >flight.. So there's your answer. In time, you may see evidence of inbreeding. It is better in the long term to outcross, unless you have at least 64 colonies in the area (up to 10 miles, I think). -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:36:27 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Swarm Control In-Reply-To: <200007190440.AAA17891@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200007190440.AAA17891@listserv.albany.edu>, GImasterBK@AOL.COM writes >Chris, >You must have different Varroa mites in UK than they are in the U.S. > >Female Varroa mites lay eggs with bee larvae, and the bee larva serves as the >food supply for the mites. When the bee emerges from its cell, adult mites >are "hooked on" to this new bee and feeding from the lymph of the bee. Adult >Varroa mites spend all of their time living ON THE ADULT BEE except when it is their time to jump into a cell and rear new mites. > and traveling >where it goes INCLUDING swarms. Yes. Early swarms will have less mites, later ones more. But timing it right might help the bees keep mites lower in number. Has anyone any scientific data on how the numbers go? -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:53:14 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Stings and local reactions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds about right to me. The second sting after going without being stung is always the worst. The first sting tells your body what to expect and it over reacts to the second one. Itching is normal but with more stings over the season your body tends to lighten up on the reaction. Forget trying to be stingproof- it doesn't work and you don't develop a tolerance. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:50:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: honey prices/selling your own/NO WHINING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Building up a local honey brand involves swapping out crystalised jars and consignment sales with the beekeeper fronting a couple of cases to get the operation going. Better to give a few jars away than have it sit around in barrels. If my farm stand owes somebody big time and needs to give a jar or drops a jar She tells me and I comp it. Usually this behavior comes back pretty much in spades or peaches or tomatoes. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:29:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Hamilton Subject: Re: Stings and local reactions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Amee, you are describing sounds like a pretty normal local reaction. I know for me, the redness and itching from a sting gets less and less each time over the course of the summer, eventually you won't have the itching. The first of the summer, I got several stings on the back of my left hand, it again had slight swelling and a couple days of itching. Subsequently this hasn't happened even though I have had a couple more stings on the same hand. However, the sting always hurts, always will. I think for some reason new beekeepers are given the impression that seasoned beekeepers don't even feel a bee sting or that somehow their bees don't ever sting them. In reality we all get stung, we learn in time how to work the bees to get stung less. Over time, our bodies learn to recognize the sting's antigen and don't release histamine. I think knowing what's normal is what is important. Too many people have gotten the initial sting ( and a little local reaction ), got a couple subsequent stings and then a larger local reaction, at which point they quit keeping bees "because they became allergic" Not a doc, don't play one on TV, either, so take it for what its worth from someone who just also gets stung. Dave ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:06:38 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Multicoloured bees In-Reply-To: <200007241212.IAA23480@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200007241212.IAA23480@listserv.albany.edu>, Robert Brenchley writes >Could this be a case of >a queen having mated with drones of different races, and producing different >coloured offspring? This is quite common here in West Cornwall (UK). Hives with mostly black bees may have a % with 1 or even 2 orange stripes. I have mostly pure black with some colonies having up to 1/3 and others as little as under 10% one stripe. I take this last to mean there was one drone father from mixed race out of the 14 or so drones she mated with (average for the race) the rest being black. I have most of my colonies sited in pairs on a double stand 6 ft long (2m) separated by 10 or more yards (10m) so drifting should be minimal. I have seen colonies with 3 yellow bands and black bees roughly 50:50. We had an indigenous black bee population augmented by imports mostly of Italians with a few occasional Carniolans. Now with varroa, we will presumably have a higher % mixed, unless some wild colonies survive with the ability to keep varroa down. Some of us prefer the black bee and are prepared to cull yellow queens or any that are badly mixed. (We have to look at the sizes of segments to select the Carniolans out). I put mating nucs at sites where my bees at least are as black and as good performing as I can get. Yes, there is a drone mix which bad weather sorts out!! Dark queens and drones fly at lower temperatures and in wetter weather, well, drizzle actually. So matings tend to be better IMHO. It is interesting to see colonies where queens mated very quickly and race away and others where queens seem to take ages to produce offspring. I am able to cull/combine to suit my preference for near-native characters. -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:57:50 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: SA e-BEEKEEPING MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Could all South African beekeepers on the BEE-L contact me. We have a small informal discussion group going on SA issues and would appreciate your input. Robert Post crpost@telkomsa.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:27:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Koontz Subject: Re: Stings and local reactions Has anybody tried the Tyvek suits? Amee, I use a tyvek suit, the same kind that my husband uses for nasty plumbing jobs. I have pulled many stings out of the material but have not been stung through the suit. The only draw back I can see is that they are HOT as they do NOT breathe. I am a new beekeeper also and only been stung 2 x but did not have a reaction to either sting. Julie Koontz Lorena, TX ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:31:26 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Tyvek Suits and Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi: As mentioned, Tyvek will work. We keep a couple for visitors and when we need an extra suit. Folded, they take up little space. They are slippery and it is hard for a bee to get a good purchase and deliver a sting. They are cheap and more or less disposable. Many have elastic in the sleeves. Plumber's, asbestos removers, and others use them, so they are relatively easy to find. Having stated the pluses, there are several drawbacks. As mentioned, these suits are hot and don't breathe. Fine for cool weather. The suit is rather tough and often come with pullover boots/shoe as part of the suit. The shoes seal the ankles, but wear out very fast. Adding some duct tape soles helps extend their service life. Biggest drawback and one difficult to understand, even the large suits are "small". I stand just under 6 ft and 185#, and the large suit is none to roomy. Considering who would normally need these suits, one would expect that large, extra large, and XX large sizes would be in great demand. On most large men, the crotch spits almost immediately - first time you bend over. Probably not the placement of an opening one would prefer for access to pockets, etc.; especially when working with bees. Cheers Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:43:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Amee Abel Subject: Re: Honey Liqueur MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, While I'm no expert on brewing, my husband has adopted it as his hobby. He does wine, hard cider, beers, and, of course, mead --what sparked me to get into bees was the idea of adding "home-grown" honey to his mead, since our wine and cider comes from our own grapes and apples. He offers the following advice on Honey Liqueur: >Liquor is sweetener mixed with alcohol. You need to mix honey with several >kinds of alcohol to produce the liquor that mixes best with it. Start with >vodka first. If that doesn't work, try something like whiskey or rum. Keep >trying until it tastes right. --Amee Abel's Apiaries "Happy Hives Making Wholesome Honey" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:35:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: Honey liqueur MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Henry, The only honey liquor I am familiar with is a potent concoction from Germany. It comes in a netted bottle with a skep on the cap. It is quite distinctive. Of course I have forgotten the name. I am not sure of your location but a trip to the liquor store or a call to a large distributor should yield the name. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, VA Henry Harris wrote: > I am looking for a nice honey liqueur. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:00:28 -0700 Reply-To: Bosaiya Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bosaiya Subject: Re: Honey liqueur MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's called "Baerenjaeger" which translates as "Bear trap." The trap being baited with... honey. .....designs to knock you out..... http://www.knockoutproductions.com -----Original Message----- From: Thom Bradley To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Date: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 7:43 PM Subject: Re: Honey liqueur >The only honey liquor I am familiar with is a potent concoction from >Germany. It comes in a netted bottle with a skep on the cap. It is quite >distinctive. Of course I have forgotten the name. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:58:56 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HStarJE@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Honey Samples MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > What's a clean, no-mess, minimum-hassle way to offer honey samples? Even just toothpicks and a honey squeezer (bear) will work. It really helps if the beekeeper loads the honey onto the toothpick held by the customer. This moment creates the opportunity to make promotional/educational comments. Sure honey sells itself, but it doesn't hurt to encourage it in a non-aggressive way. . ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:09:01 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: honey prices/selling your own/NO WHINING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stand sales customers can increase honey sales by recommending putting honey on the vegatables(1/2 teaspoon). Just line it over the top in the steamer and it will help add to the favor of the vegetable. It is not a sweet, more like it takes out the ground or spray taste. My Grandkids eat the vegetables cus they want to. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:59:45 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rune Stenseth Subject: SV: Honey liqueur MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Henry We make our own liqueur by just mixing clean alcohol, spirit without flavour, with honey. Strength may be about 40-60%, (Dont`t know what that is in proof), depending on the strength wanted on the final product. The trick is that it needs to rest for at least about a year to settle down and acquire the right flavour. We use about 50% of each. Some people add herbs to this mixture, we have not yet found the best herbs to use. Please report which solution you found the best, this is of general interest to many beekeepers, I understand. Bestr regards Rune Stenseth ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 02:37:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dan McFeeley Subject: Re: Honey liqueur Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Henry Harris wrote: >I am looking for a nice honey liqueur. I have tried the internet, but >with no luck. Is there somebody who can help me??? Try looking for Horilka, a Polish honey liqueur. It's easy to make at home using a 50/50 solution of honey and vodka. One part honey to one part vodka, let it sit for a few months then rack it off the sediment. <><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Dan McFeeley mcfeeley@keynet.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:42:18 -0500 Reply-To: boby@lakecountry.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Young Subject: Re: Honey Liqueur MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I read somewhere that grappa, an italian distilled liquor I believe, is made from fermented honey water. Bob Young Lindale,TX ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:09:11 +0200 Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?B?Suly9G1lIFRyb3VpbGxlcg==?= Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?B?Suly9G1lIFRyb3VpbGxlcg==?= Subject: B 401 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To : Dr. Anton Esterhuysen and Robert Post The product CERTAN or B 401 is presently sold by our company (in = France). The active is : Bacillus thuringiensis Berliner, variety azaiwai, = serotype 7. J=E9r=F4me Trouiller SWARM S.A. 2, c=F4te de la Jonch=E8re F-78380 Bougival Tel +33 1 30 82 29 89 Fax +33 1 30 82 27 77 trouiller.swarm@wanadoo.fr ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:43:56 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Max Watkins Subject: Re: Apivar and resistance in varroa In-Reply-To: <200007251320.JAA00541@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It seems that there may be a cross-resistance between pytrethroids and amitraz in varroa mites in the USA. Yes, of course Miticure strips WERE effective [several years ago] but that was before the advent of pyrethroid resistance there. The situation could be different in Europe as the mite populations, even the species are probably different from those in the USA. However, there are many cases of apparent amitraz resistance showing up all over Europe. This is not new - there has been amitraz resistance in varroa in Eastern Europe for many years, due to illegal and improper use of the substance. Coumaphos resistance is now widespread in Italy also. If the varroa mite uses similar detoxification mechanisms to get rid of these different pesticides then cross-resistance is a possibility. It has yet to be proven. What it does mean is that Integrated Pest Management for varroa control is even more important now. We need to use a range of techniques and treatments rather than rely on one magic bullet. Max Dr Max Watkins Vita (Europe) Limited Brook House, Alencon Link Basingstoke, Hants RG21 7RD UK Tel. +44 (0) 1256 473177 Fax +44 (0) 1256 473179 -----Original Message----- From: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology [mailto:BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu]On Behalf Of bob harrison Sent: 25 July 2000 14:25 To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: Re: Apivar Hugo Thon wrote: > > Hugo wrote > > Apivar has been distributed in Belgium by official bee organizations > since > there are (supposed to be) fluvalinate resistant mites in some parts of > Europe , > i.e in 1998 en 1999. Hello all, I would add to your post that in the test results i have seen for some unknown reason the mites resistant to fluvalinate have been resistant to amitraz. I find this puzzling as in the U.S. the old "Miticur" (amitraz) strips were very effective against the varroa mites. Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 21:51:40 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: To the Moderators only MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gentlemen, This list has lately taken a turn away from what used to bee "informed discussion" into anything where the word bee is mentioned. The flood of daily mails are soon reaching the limit even for my delete button, and it's getting increasingly difficult to sort out what is worth a glance among the blur. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:23:04 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: Apivar and resistance in varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Max Watkins wrote: > Coumaphos resistance is now widespread in Italy also. > > We need to use a > range of techniques and treatments rather than rely on one magic bullet. > Dr. Watkins, Thank you for your post which answered my questions. As a beekeeper depending on bees for part of his income my back is against the wall again. Seems like i can expect resistance to coumaphos before long. I allready have got fluvalinate resistant varroa mites. we haven't been able to get apicure through our supplier and to assure its effectivness we really need to use apicure in August in Missouri. Seems to me as well as my beekeeping friends as if those of us using only legal methods are losing the varroa battle. registration of treatments is a long and expensive process in the U.S.. Beekeepers using legal methods in the U.S. are hanging on by a thread in the varroa battle. I must add at the risk of much criticism that my friend Allen Dick and other Canadian beekeepers have solved their varroa and tracheal mite problems with the liquid formic acid treatments. Found naturally in honey and never have the mites showed resistance. There was much outcry about their treatments on bee-L but i can't help but think their position is better than the position myself and my fellow U.S. beekeepers find ourselves in today. Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:18:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: stimey Subject: Bee vac. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Awhile back someone mentioned a low cost home made bee-vac made from a old package bee cage. I recently made one and was very impressed with its performance. It took about 10 mins. to make. A note I screened the area where the queen cage was for air flow and adjusted the air intake by letting a clear garbage bag down alittle on the side and using my hand to control the air as bees covered the screened area. Also instead of the syrup can I used a coffee can, cut out the bottom and kept the plastic cover cutting a hole large enough for the hose of my 1.5 hp. shop vac. This left one hole to cut for the intake hose, which is to one side of the syrup can hole. Works ! I used a 3 lb. cage, a larger one might be better but you can change cages quickly and if you staple screen over the intake opening it makes a good temporary holding cage. Many thanks to the person who posted the bee-vac idea. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:06:24 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: NYC park sprayed with Sumithrin, Resmethrin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Refer to the archives for additional info about sumithrin, resmethrin. An article in this Sunday's Boston Globe said spraying for mosquitoes has begun in some areas of CT. The article did not mention what was being sprayed. Can anybody say what is being sprayed and where in CT? Central Park reopens after spraying By Associated Press Central Park reopened Tuesday after the city sprayed the tourist attraction and city playground to kill mosquitoes carrying the West Nile virus. The city used the synthetic pesticides, Sumithrin and Resmethrin, which can cause breathing problems for the elderly and people with respiratory ailments. City officials stressed that the chemicals don't pose a risk to the public. Virus-carrying mosquitoes have been found in Central Park and on Staten Island. The discovery marked the first time this year that the potentially deadly virus has been found in mosquitoes in New York City. Earlier this summer, the virus was found in birds and mosquitoes in the suburbs. Last year, the virus killed seven people and infected 62 others in the metropolitan area. In the most serious cases, West Nile can result in encephalitis, or swelling of the brain. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 21:12:35 PST Reply-To: haymedhon@telus.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Hancock Subject: reading bee-tween the lines I was dismayed to read the suggestion that some individuals are not contributing to 'informed discussion' and think it should bee remembered that a swarm is greater than the hum of it's parts.Ted ================================================================= Internet service provided by telus.net http://www.telus.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:56:21 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Honey Liqueur MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/26/00 8:05:31 AM, boby@LAKECOUNTRY.NET writes: << I read somewhere that grappa, an italian distilled liquor I believe, is made from fermented honey water. >> If you like a good alocoholic honey beverage, try an Ethiopian or Eritrean restaurant. It seems to be the only alcoholic beverage offered in many such restaurants. A national or cultural drink of sorts (maybe a niche local market for honey if they brew their own). I have had some excellent honey wines in such establishments. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:21:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael Bassett Subject: Re: Apivar and resistance in varroa Comments: To: Bob Harrison On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:23:04 -0500, bob harrison wrote: we haven't been able to get apicure through our supplier and to assure its effectivness we really need to use apicure in August in Missouri. I'm curious why must apicure be on by aug? mite level's will be to high or for evaporation of the acid. I used it this spring april 1 for the length recommended, avg temperatures are less than in sept or oct in during april and the evaporation rate was better than it would have been with menthol. the key seemed to be how open you could get the package. I found it impossible to cut the 'x' required and hold both end's and get the inner cover on successfuly, so in most cases i only did one end, next week i did the second end as the plastic seems to remember where it was over time. i would say that the majority of the acid was gone at the end of the required time. I did have some that seemed to not evaporate at all? as to the effectivenes i don't have a count of mites b/4 and after but will this fall. mike massachusetts ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:15:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Boston: West Nile found, spraying to start MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Boston Herald is reporting this afternoon that West Nile has been discovered in a dead crow in the Jamaica Plain area of Boston. Pesticide spraying will begin, but the extent of spraying has not yet been determined, pending mosquito tests. Some public health officials are recommending a 2-mile area around Willow Pond in Jamaica Plain be sprayed. There is some controversy because the crow could have flown in from another area—as much as 200 miles away. The proposed 2-mile zone begins at the banks of the Charles River to the north and extends south across the Arnold Arboretum. The area is bordered to the east by the working-class neighborhoods of Roxbury, and to the west, by Brookline, an upscale area of large homes and gardens. From the Herald story: "The pesticides likely to be used are in a class called synthetic pyrethriods, which are said to mimic a naturally occuring pesticide found in chrysanthemums. The chemicals are resmethrin, active ingredient in the brand Scourge; and sumithrin, active ingredient in the brand Anvil." Also from the story: "Spraying is most effective at dusk, and residents will be alerted through radio and television notices, said Anita Barry, a director at Boston's Public Health Commission. During spraying, people are advised to stay indoors with windows closed and keep pets and children inside. "Nevertheless, 'people do not need to be overly concerned about the effects of the spray,' Barry said. "Since Willow Pond lies on the border of Brookline, that city's Board of Selectmen must determine whether to spray locally. Alan Balsam, Brookline's health commissioner, said he will recommend spraying. The prospect of spraying raised concerns among environmental activists." Boston Mayor Thomas Menino, sounding a lot like New York Mayor Rudolph Guiliani last year, was asked if the decision to spray might be an over-reaction. "I'd rather jump the gun than be sorry later on." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:12:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Barricklow, Walt" Subject: Drugs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Have been reading all the latest outrage and information on the can have = , can't have drugs to kill mites and beetles that other countries can = use, and we in the US can't use. Has anybody ever checked the honey = being imported to see if there is any trace of illegal drugs in the = honey. Seems to me, it should be illegal to import honey into the US if = anything was used on the hive, or on the bees that we still have not = approved its use, and have it for sale. Just my thoughts on the = matter. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:31:44 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: Apivar and resistance in varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit michael Bassett wrote: > I'm curious why must apicure be on by aug? We have been waiting for apicure to become available in Missouri for awhile. Missouri beekeepers worried if put on in Sept. and we have a cold Sept. then Apicure will go the same route as the menthol crystals in the bags did. Menthol crystals will work in Missouri when put on by Aug.' I use menthol/veg oil soaked shop towels and they are effective even when put on in late Sept. I did have some that seemed to not evaporate at all? I would worry about the mite kill on these colonies. With menthol(which is the only treatment to compare with) colonies with bags which didn't evaporate didn't get a good tracheal mite kill from our testing. The plan most Missouri beekeepers have come up with the first year with apicure is to test mite kill with a strip and sticky board in a week after application. Maybe one hive per yard. Not a perfect system at best but a way to at least get a idea. Bob Harrison Missouri, U.S. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:55:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roger Flanders Subject: Re: Honey Liqueur/Ethiopian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Mitchell wrote: "If you like a good alocoholic honey beverage, try an Ethiopian or Eritrean > restaurant. It seems to be the only alcoholic beverage offered in many such > restaurants. A national or cultural drink of sorts (maybe a niche local > market for honey if they brew their own). Just as a point of information, we had a chance to stop at several "Mom & Pop" wineries in Washington's Yakima Valley last month and, being a beekeeper and mead-maker, always asked about meads. Only one winery in the area, Bonair at Zillah, WA, makes mead, we were told. Upon visiting with the winemaker there, we were told much of their mead is produced under contract for Ethiopian restaurants in New York City. I mention this only because of the recent discussions on this list about niche marketing and how to avoid "commodity" pricing. --Rog Flanders, Nemaha County, Nebraska ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 14:01:13 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Re: Drugs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Have been reading all the latest outrage and information on the can have = > , can't have drugs to kill mites and beetles that other countries can = > use, and we in the US can't use. Has anybody ever checked the honey = > being imported to see if there is any trace of illegal drugs in the = > honey. Seems to me, it should be illegal to import honey into the US if = > anything was used on the hive, or on the bees that we still have not = > approved its use, and have it for sale. I don't think there are any testing requirements supervised or mandated by the US government regarding imported honey. The packer I asked about what percentage of his honey did he test he said not very much and that he paid for a lot of liability insurance. What an attitude. American beekeepers could do a lot for them selves by getting the labeling requirements for honey easier to understand. I think honey sold in the United States of America that contains ANY foreign /imported honey should be required to use the word imported as large as the word Honey and a meaningful disclosure statement about the possible sources of origin. The National Honey Board does a lot of very good things for the marketable image of honey. The NHB only needs a little tweak so that the emphasis is on US beekeepers and US Honey. I think that the majority of Americas honey buyers would choose AMERICAN HONEY versus IMPORTED HONEY. I think the American Public is potentially very sensitive about the honey bees role in the food chain and would be very sympatric to beekeepers if beekeepers got organized and made a media blitz across America making the point to buy American and better yet local honey. Be sure to look at the NHB referendum voting issues and procedures. I will try to post more on this if not censored. All the Best Walter Patton ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:22:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: drugs, miticides, detection limits and trade Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>> Walter Patton 07/27 6:01 PM >>> Has anybody ever checked the honey being imported to see if there is any trace of illegal drugs in the honey. There is a reference to official limits of varroacide residues in honey in various countries: Wallner, K. 1999. Varroacides and their residues in bee products. Apidologie. 30: 235-248. The paper states that in the US there are official residues for honey for fluvalinate and amitraz. That is to say, honey with levels exceeding these limits, domestic or imported, would not be able to be sold. NOW, for pest control products not registered in the US, the policy is that a very very low limit is set by proxy- I think the level may be set at the current level of detection. The philosophy I imagine is to err way on the side of caution as US regulators do not review foreign registrations (they regulate what they know). I know farmers in Canada rountinely panic when the US pulls the registration on a pest control product, because it means Canadians still using the product loose their US markets. What we usually end up doing is ditching the use of the product. Having said all that, I know there is increasing movement to harmonize NAFTA and EU pesticide registration (and presumably drugs too), so that when the US has a product registered, the EU will accept the US acceptible residue determination. As you can imagine, this is quite a sticky issue, as often food safety issues can be muddled with issues of protectionism. Somebody else on the list may be able to provide a perspective on where harmonization sits today. Regards Adony Adony Melathopoulos Apiculture Biotechnologist Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada Beaverlodge Research Farm Box CP 29 Beaverlodge, Alberta CANADA T0H 0C0 T +1 780 354 5130 F +1 780 354 8171