From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 07:40:06 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05019 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:40:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00148 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:43:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141243.HAA00148@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:42:58 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0008B" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 158833 Lines: 3452 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 23:55:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Honey Labelling Greetings All, Recently, a discussion occurred here on the list in which many people came up with great and viable options to push the sales of domestically produced honey. This made a fellow beekeeper and I begin to think about the labelling of honey, both foreign and domestic. One thing that we discussed and questioned was why is honey not labelled a fat free product? Every other fat lacking food product is touted as being fat free. Is there a law that prevents honey from bearing a fat free label as well? Thanks. Scott ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 01:13:41 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Honey Labelling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/7/00 9:17:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, smoser@RURALCOM.NET writes: > One thing that we > discussed and questioned was why is honey not labelled a fat free product? > Every other fat lacking food product is touted as being fat free. Is there > a law that prevents honey from bearing a fat free label as well? The minute you make any health claims on honey, you come under a lot stricter regulation. You have to prove your claims. Now you'd think that would not be hard, but to do so to the satifaction of a bureaucracy can be expensive. Another example is herbs, which can be sold as foods without too much oversight, but the minute they make a health claim, they come under the jurisdiction of the FDA, and they are carefully scrutinized. Dave Green http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 05:51:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: heat and humidity and varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > In a conversation with Diana Sammataro last year she > mentioned that Varroa (and I believe mites in general) tend to be a bit "leaky". > Good air flow when a mite is "questing" for a host could lead to a higher mortality > rate. I think you mite be confusing your mites here. Diana works mostly with tracheal mited (her licence plate is ACARPIS). The questing study was her graduate thesis on Acarpis woodi (tracheal mites). > I am considering an experiment where I put in a sticky board > and lift the brood frames one at a time and spray them with sugar water to induce > grooming. Very labor intesive but if I find a high mite drop it may be > something to add to SOP for a hive inspection. Less work to test using the powdered sugar method. It's similar to the ether roll method, but rather than ether you use 1 tsp of confectioners suger. Using a standard mason jar with the lid replaced by a screen (standard window screen is fine) held in place by the lid collar, shake the bees and confectioners sugar to coat the bees. Then turn the jar over and shake it onto a white sheet of paper. Mites will fall through the screen and you can count them immediately. Best thing is your bees will be unharmed and can be released back into the hive. It was stated (but not recommended) that you can even inadvertently include the queen in your sample without harming her. There was a very impressive demonstration of this method at EAS revealing MANY mites from what appeared to be a populous and healthy hive. Aaron Morris - thinking there's more than one way to test a mite! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 08:22:15 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nathalie Lautier Subject: Bees and wings beats Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello everybody, I am trying to find out approximately how many wings beats an orchid bee is doing each minute. I looked in many books, but i didn't find sucha precise information. What about bees in general? Zould anybody have these informations or would know where i could find them This is to study the different buzzing sounds that insects are doing. Thanks a lot Nathalie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 08:19:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: heat and humidity and varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Aaron and everyone, Just a quick comment on the powdered sugar test for varroa. Standard window screen ( 16 or 20 wires per inch) is too fine and won't allow all the varroa to fall through. You need 8 or 10 mesh ( wires per inch) to allow the varroa to fall through so they can be counted. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 09:45:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: heat and humidity and varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >I think you mite be confusing your mites here. Diana works mostly with >tracheal mited (her licence plate is ACARPIS). The questing study was her >graduate thesis on Acarpis woodi (tracheal mites). If I am recalling correctly (and it has been over a year) the Varroa (and perhaps mites in general) have some of the same weaknesses. The issue was also covered with screen inserts where the fallen mite will not move more that about 3/4 of an inch when it begins to quest for a host. There were a number of others in the conversation and I am afraid that I may be miscrediting the information (although Diana was there). >> I am considering an experiment where I put in a sticky board >> and lift the brood frames one at a time and spray them with sugar water to induce >> grooming. Very labor intesive but if I find a high mite drop it may be >> something to add to SOP for a hive inspection. >Less work to test using the powdered sugar method. It's similar to the >ether roll method, but rather than ether you use 1 tsp of confectioners >suger. I'm not thinking about testing here. Just trying to cause a mite drop. The sugar method is a great test (I hate killing bees). But if on a normal instection of the hive I can mist the frames I lift with a little sugar water and add to the mite drop it may help reduce the number of other treatments I need. I figure anything I can do to hurt the mites will extend the time between Apistan treatments. The final method would be to have a screen bottom board in place and just spray the frames I lift from the brood chamber as a matter of procedure. I have used water sprays in the past (along with a normal application of smoke) to calm the bees when doing extensive inspections. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 13:52:24 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George Richtmeyer Subject: Water how much do Bees need MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to know how much water a bee needs to live I live in the southwest were the weather gets in the 90's-100's most of the summer. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 22:24:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CAIR Subject: Another beginner question In-Reply-To: <200008090012.UAA20209@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I checked my hive today and there were hundreds of bees on the outside wall near the entrance. The frames are relatively full in the main chamber with lots of brood, but the beens seem to refuse to go through the queen excluder to the honey super. Is this a sign of overcrowding and potential swarming? I did not see any quenn cells. What should I do? (This hive swarmed several weeks ago even though it was just installed this year.) Also, several weeks ago I saw a drone emerge and a mite escape from the drone cell. It was small and round and red or brown (I am colorblind). What should I do about this? Ibrahim ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 00:12:41 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JCHenry500@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Fume boards for beginners MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How heavily do you apply Bee-Go to the fume boards? How long to you leave it on? Deos it matter if there are 3 to 5 supers? (Yeah, I usually use a brush, or at most a blower, but the bees in one hive are VERY nasty and I want to spend as little time with them as possible!) charles henry little rock ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 00:42:54 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HStarJE@AOL.COM Subject: Overwintering Nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello: I am considering splitting hives soon and overwintering 5-frame nucs in styrofoam this year. Are there any Northern beekeepers out there with experience and advice for this technique? Cesar Flores Colorado USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 13:11:54 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: POLLINATION WINDOW MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit During the 1999 pollination season (August 1999 through November 1999), conditions of extended blossoming were experienced on plums, pears and apples. This was caused (it is believed) by an excessively long and dry Autumn (Fall). The extended flowering period necessitated keeping bees in orchards for up to 30 days. Logistically this caused conflicts, as colonies are often rented out for more than one sequential crop. Bees could not/would not be freed by fruit producers. The situation has resulted in embarrassment to advisors, who, in the past, were able to predict a flowering period of 7 days to (max.) 21 days. The Western Cape Bee Industry Association's Pollination Forum is currently gathering information whereby advice is sought regarding the establishment of a "pollination window" clause within their draft pollination agreement. Advice from horticulturists and growers is also solicited regarding the validity of the assumption that: (a) plums should have set a crop or start becoming unattractive to bees within 14 days (b) Pears (delivered in two sets) within 2 x 7 days (c) Apples within 14 days (c) over and above the three directives, all bees should/should be removed by full bloom date plus two days. Climatic conditions this year mirror those of the previous season. Conditions of extended blossom are again predicted. Your experience would be appreciated. Robert Post South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 08:39:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Another beginner question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >I checked my hive today and there were hundreds of bees on the outside wall >near the entrance. The frames are relatively full in the main chamber with >lots of brood, but the beens seem to refuse to go through the queen >excluder to the honey super. This can be a simple case of no nectar flow and warm weather. If the brood chamber is congested you have a greater chance of swarming. You can add a second brood chamber to reduce the chances of swarming. Without a need the bees will be reluctant to move away from the brood and queen into a super. If there is no flow on they will tend to not want to move up. If there is only foundation in the honey supers it will take a strong flow to get them to draw it out into comb. As for the mites seeing one just does not indicate a need for treatment, yet. I would suggest that you test for mite populations using the "sugar roll" method or sticky board. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 08:55:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: POLLINATION WINDOW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/9/00 4:26:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, crpost@TELKOMSA.NET writes: > Climatic conditions this year mirror those of the > previous season. Conditions of extended blossom > are again predicted. Your experience would be > appreciated. I haven't worked with plums, but I wrote an article several years ago for apples (and pears would be similar) discussing the pollination of the king bloom and the rest of the cluster. The article can be found at: http://pollinator.com/maxapple1.htm Attention needs to be focused on the pollination of the king bloom. The rest become important, only if the bloom is very weak, or the king is not well pollinated due to frost, etc. Failure to set the king bloom leads to lots of thinning problems. An understanding of this is important in any discussion of pollination windows. Sorry, the graphics show the limitations of my ability and equipment at that point, but I think you can still get the idea. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:27:34 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Another beginner question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/8/00 10:46:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cair1@IX.NETCOM.COM writes: > The frames are relatively full in the main chamber with > lots of brood, but the beens seem to refuse to go through the queen > excluder to the honey super. Turn the excluder sideways this will provide some ventillation in the summer heat and also an unobstructed path for workers to get started. You can return it to it's proper position once they get busy. Becuse the queen tends to move up in the center she is not as likely to move into your supers as you might think although she can. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:28:11 -0700 Reply-To: gregoire@endor.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Ernest J. Gregoire" Subject: Re: Fume boards for beginners Comments: cc: JCHenry500@AOL.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Charles, <> Bee-Go is a foul substance. It is worse as bad as skunk when trying to get the smell off of anything and that includes frames, and honey. I can smell it on frames for weeks. The fume pad itself must be kept down wind from any nose especially your wife. Trust me on this one! I left the fume board outside over the winter in the direct path of a dripping roof. I could still smell the fumes the following spring. I could not smell honey and not think of the foul smell of Bee-go. I will never use it again. There is a much better way especially if you have only a few supers. Use a triagle bee escape board. They work over night and most of the time they work very well. They are easy to make if you are handy with a table saw. << Deos it matter if there are 3 to 5 supers?>> Yes it does, I can only evacuate one super with the fumes and I must use enough to drive the bees down or some will stay and I will have to reapply the liquid to the fume pad and begin again. The bees hate it. My guess is that the commercial folk who buy the stuff in drums have much more experience with the stuff and will be able to tell you much more about their likes and dislikes. The bees will not object to the triangle escape board. If your bee blower set up is correct you should have no problem with nasty bees. Most folks use a portable stand to place the super on and blow the bees into a cloth bee catcher. The bees simply fall on to the cloth and tumble to the ground. They return to the hive later without further incident. I use duct tape to seal the cleared supers. I have entrance holes in each super. I tape them up and seal any crack with the tape. No bees in the super means no bees in the house. My wife likes that. Ernie Gregoire Grist Mill Apiray Canaan NH. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:33:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Over-wintering nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cesar asks about over-wintering 5-frame nucs in Styrofoam nucs. I regularly over-winter 5-frame nucs, without difficulty. Depending on where in Colorado you live, our winters here are probably as cold as your own, but we might have less snow. We average about one meter (39 inches) a year of snow, and usually have at least one consecutive week where night temperatures are at least -20F. Being covered with snow does not hurt the nucs, and may help them by providing better insulation. I think it is critical that they be packed out with sealed honey and pollen by mid-October. I use Carnolian stock and think they winter better as nucs than Italians. Upper ventilation is critical and I use two 1" holes screened from the inside. I have never tried Styrofoam, but know of others who have. The Styrofoam nucs I have seen are very tight and I would worry about that. Bees must have upper ventilation, or they will die. I suggest you either find a way of propping up the cover or drill small holes. I have tried holes as small as 1/8", and they have been successful. Best of luck, Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:19:36 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Over-wintering nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Lloyd Why will they die? I have kept bees with no upper ventilation for over 20 years and noticed no problems. Best Regards, Dave Cushman G8MZY Email: dave.cushman@lineone.net Website...Beekeeping and Bee Breeding http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ----- Original Message ----- From: Lloyd Spear The Styrofoam > nucs I have seen are very tight and I would worry about that. Bees must > have upper ventilation, or they will die. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 17:37:52 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beenetuk Host Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: The National Honey Show with International classes The 69th National Honey Show with International Classes and Beekeepers' Lecture Convention. The biggest honey show in the world takes place at Kensington Town Hall, London, England 16th,17th & 18th November, 2000. Organised by The National Honey Show limited Further details including Show Schedule are available at the honeyshow web site http://www.honeyshow.co.uk * 2000 Lecture Programme * 2000 Show Schedule * Schedule in German & French * Entry from * Preparation & showing honey article * Junior Bee Quiz * Show Forum * Keep informed by subscribing to the honeyshow mailing list * Show and compete with the best in the world! Steven Turner st@zbee.com .. When you go in search of honey you must expect to be stung by bees. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 00:22:59 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JCHenry500@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Moving hives and bee re-orientation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Conventional wisdom says the hives should be moved either a few inches or a mile or more at a time. I understand the rationale.....you either want the bees to be able to find their orginal spot or else you want to to realize at once that they have been moved and to reorient themselves. But what really happens? If you move them 10 feet, how many hang around the old site and how many mosey on over to the new hive, or even wander to a nearby hive? How about 200 yards? Will there be a few bees at the old site, or 25% of the hive? Is it like a swarm or just a handful of lonesome bees? But my real question is that if you move them 1 mile, how do you know the bees made if back at all? Maybe 15%-25% went out without reorienting themselves and just wandered around and got lost. Do we know how efficiently bees reorient themselves after short, medium and long relocations? chalres henry little rock ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 06:23:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: heat and humidity and varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > if on a normal instection of the hive I can mist the frames I lift with a > little sugar water and add to the mite drop it may help reduce the number of other > treatments I need. Does misting with sugar water induce mite drop? I have not heard or read any such assertions, but I haven't heard and read it all. > I figure anything I can do to hurt the mites will extend > the time between Apistan treatments. Absolutely! That's what IPM is all about! Cheers, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 06:53:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: West Nile hysteria Comments: cc: "Pollinator@aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" As the West Nile virus is confirmed in more areas in the northeast US, public concern over mosquitos approaches hysteria. There has been a run on insect repellent to the point that last weekend there was none to be found. Stores have since restocked a plenty. Little old ladies are afraid to walk outside and parents are encouraging their children to play video games. Some communities are sticking to a wait and see attitude, others are gearing up for BTi dunk assaults next spring, and a few are mounting spraying campaigns to start as early as Friday. A three county area (Rennsalaer, Albany and Schenectary) in upstate NY will beging spraying Anvil on Friday. Specific details of the spraying are sketchy at best. I found the Anvil label at http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dshm/pesticid/anvil.gif and see no mention whatsoever about bees. Can anyone enlighten me? On a similar note, David Green was featured prominently in the cover page article ("Pesticide Misuse in New York City") in the August issue of "Bee Culture". Dave's discussion of his trials and tribulations dealing with mosquito spraying following hurricanes Hugo and Floyd can be found at his web page http://www.pollinator.com/ Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 18:06:49 +0200 Reply-To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: SV: Overwintering Nucs In-Reply-To: <20000809112354.FMXO925.fepC.post.tele.dk@SEGATE.SUNET.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology [mailto:BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU]Pε vegne af HStarJE@AOL.COM Sendt: 9. august 2000 06:43 Til: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Emne: Overwintering Nucs Hello: styrofoam this year. Are there any Northern beekeepers out there with experience and advice for this technique? I am living in Denmark and are using styropor hives allover in my beekeeping.(langstroth size) our temperature in winther is an avereage of 0 degree celsius most winthers. I divide a box into three with a queen and bees on three frames in each. This box is places on top of a strong hive seperated with a piece of clear plastic. Each nuc of course have an entry to the free. this way the nuc's got the warm from below when spring development take place. in the spring I use the queens as reserve queens, and then let the one nuc without a queen run together with one nuc with a queen. When I have used the two of the three queens I take the rest and start a normal hive with those. the result I have had is not 100% overwintering but around 80%. I always aim after replacing a third of my queens in the spring. and spare queens are always god to have in the spring. best regards Jorn Johanesson New beekeing software and updates also beekeeping software for handheld computers. http://apimo.dk/programs/Bidata_palm2.zip for Palm compatible OS see http://apimo.dk/whatsnew.htm http://apimo.dk/programs/bidatawin95_98_update3.exe EDBi = Multilingual software for beekeeping since 1997 home page = HTTP:\\apimo.dk e-mail Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 23:26:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Moving hives and bee re-orientation In-Reply-To: <200008091739.NAA16659@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Conventional wisdom says the hives should be moved either a few inches or a > mile or more at a time... Your questions are good ones, but very much doubt that there are any clear-cut answers for them. So much depends on the circumstances, the weather, the strain of bee, the time of year, etc. I personally have moved bees across the country, around the province, around the neighbourhood, and around the beeyards without a great amount of thought. It is pretty clear what is happening when you try a move -- if you are observant -- and you can decide if the effects you observe are desirable or not. For example, I do like to lose flying bees from splits I am going to be giving a new queen, so I generally move them in the yard before doing so. I don't want to lose flying bees from a pollinating or honey producing colony, so I am careful how I move them in a yard and how I change the appearance of their surroundings. Your last question is really interesting, since most of us who move bees regularly assume that virtually all the bees adapt to each new location. There are good reasons to assume this, such as reports of tests where at least some lost from trucks find any hives near where they are abandoned and move in. Other indications are the clusters of bees that form on gas pumps or posts where trucks that are not adequately netted may have stopped briefly during daytime. Nonetheless, when moving bees with a net, I have noticed that a fair number of the bees that come out of the hive and which are restrained by the net die for no apparent reason, even in ideal weather. Do some of the bees experience shock or fatal stress due to the upset of moving? Would they die even if they not restrained and made it to the new location? I suppose your last question could be answered by taking a sensitive scale, weighing several hives in different conditions, then moving them and weighing again. allen -- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Package installation, performance experiments, winter loss, fondant feeding, Pierco vs. Permadent vs. dark comb, unwrapping, splitting tricks, queen cells, AFB, varroa, protein patties, daily mumblings and more... Thousands served... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 23:40:02 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Another beginner question In-Reply-To: <200008091311.JAA05315@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > but the bees seem to refuse to go through the queen > excluder to the honey super. The reasons that bees fail to go through an excluder can be many. There are raft of usual ones that are offered whenever the question comes up, and they are all valid. Understanding them can resolve the problem. Using excluders is a skill. Having said that, though it seems to me that one very obvious and important factor has historically escaped examination until it was revealed several times here on BEE-L. The amazing thing is that it has passed several times without any comment or apparent interest from the bee supply or the scientific community -- unless there are secret experiments underway right now. Everyone without exception seems to believe that bees vary considerably in size between races, strains and locations. The most obvious explanation for at least some cases of bees not going willingly through excluders is that excluders -- at least all the ones I have been able to find and measure -- use exactly the same gap for bees to crawl through! How can this be? I do not see excluders advertised as "Large Gap: For large bees raised in 5.7 mm comb" or "Small Gap: For Africanised bees or smaller honey bees". Can anyone explain why? allen -- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Package installation, performance experiments, winter loss, fondant feeding, Pierco vs. Permadent vs. dark comb, unwrapping, splitting tricks, queen cells, AFB, varroa, protein patties, daily mumblings and more... Thousands served... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 00:15:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vivian Donahue Subject: Hive stands Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Can anyone tell me where I might buy hive stands, either portable or fixed? (Not the landing platform type, but pre-made wood or metal stands that I can place hive bodies on?) I currently have my hives on concrete garden benches, but want to use the screen bottom boards and somehow I don't see much benefit if the screen is resting one inch off a solid piece of concrete.... ;-) While I can assemble equipment, I'm not much of a carpenter..... Vivian ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 17:05:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: "informed" beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry I am late answering, but I just returned from 10 days at the EAS meeting. At EAS, they SURPRISED me and awarded a SPECIAL AWARD for my monthly PINK PAGES; whose total purpose is to "Upgrade a beeHAVER to a beeKEEPER" and is aimed at beginners, novices, and "hard to convince" apiarists. This is my 68th year of beekeeping FOR THE SCIENTIFIC STUDY OF HONEY BEES. I am a retired scientist. Two different beekeepers publish my PINK PAGES on the Internet, and their addresses are: http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ click the lower right image or http://www.beekeeper.org/george_imirie/index.html I hope I have helped, but feel free to write me any time. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 08:58:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: triangle board escapes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Triangle board escapes were mentioned as a desirable way to get the bees of a particular colony out of the supers. Sometimes they work very well. One colony here (Carniolans) loves making comb honey in sections. Once in ignorance I made it difficult for the bees to access the bottoms of the section boxes. No problem, the same bees found a way to load the boxes from the top only. They are determined to fill the boxes. I put the triangle board escape (commercially supplied) under their supers (yes, the right way) and a day later the supers were full of bees. A week later it was the same. There were no leaks in the supers or the cover. I took a box full of these bees away from their hive and put the escape on in the direction that would only let them in and watched them come out as if it were not there. Simple mazes like the triangle board escape are apparently no challenge for that colony. On other colonies the escape works fine. So if you've done everything right and the triangle escape board isn't working, give it up, that colony is too adept. Some are, many are not. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:07:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thomas Vic VM Subject: SUMITHRIN TOXICITY TO BEESl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" In answer to Aaron Morris' question regarding bee toxicity of Anvil 10 + 10 ULV. The active ingredient , Sumithrin, is listed as highly toxic to bees in the Farm Chemical Handbook. It is of interest that the registered trade name " Anvil" is a completely different chemical, hexaconazole, used as a fungicide in Canada and other parts of the world. Always refer to both the active ingredient listed on the label and the product name when searching for information. We are an international forum. Vic Thomas, Eastern Pennsylvania ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:12:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: BEE-L: approval required (A415EA35) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Cheers, Aaron Morris > My thoughts are that this may work in the same way as the > sugar roll to get the mites to drop. It is unclear why the powdered sugar makes the mites drop. It was discovered a few years ago that talcum powder had the same effect. Speculation for powdered sugar covers two angles. Perhaps it impares the mites' ability to hold onto the bees. (Varroa mites have little "sticky pads" on the bottom of their feet which they use to "glue" themselves to the bee. Perhaps the confectioners sugar coats the "glue" and the mites fall off. The other angle is that perhaps the powdered sugar causes the mites discomfort and they simply let go. Why iy works is unknown. That it works is beyond doubt. I don't know if a sugar spray will have the same effect. However, it seems to me that the stickyness of the solution and the surface tension of the water would have an opposite effect, that it would make the mites more likely to adhere to the bees rather than fall off. But this is only speculation on my part. I'll be interested in the outcome of your experiments! > Depending on the state of the brood nest there are times when > the majority of mites are on adult bees. Once brood production gets going > treatments that rely on drop should be less effective in controlling the mite > population, and will result in the mite population continuing to grow. Well, yes and no. ANYTHING that takes mites out of the hive environment is a good thing. Treatments that rely on mite drop remain consistently effect. Mites that drop out of a hive enviroment are no longer able to add to the exponential growth rate of Varroa populations. It's the exponential growth rate that is the key. Say you start with 3 mites and none drop out. After two generations the 3 mites have 81 grandchildren (exponentially, the 3 beget 9 and the 9 beget 81). However, if one of the three mites drop out then in two generations you'll have only 9 grandchildren (3 less 1 leaves 2 which beget 4, one drops out leaving 3 mites to beget 9). The mite population still increase , but the RATE of increase is reduced by a VERY SIGNIFICANT factor. In this very simple example, two mites drop out of the hive, by 72 mites are removed from the population!!!! Now, do mite populations follow such simple arithmetic? Obviously not. But the dynamics aproximate the example. Drop out methods do not control mite populations, they simply slow the rate of population increase. Screened bottom boards still require other methods of control, chemicals are an important part of Integrated Pest Management. However, the impact of drop out methods can impact mite population growth dynamics such that the reliance on chemical treatments can be significantly reduced. Aaron Morris - thinking math rules! > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 05:07:12 +0200 Reply-To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: SV: Overwintering Nucs In-Reply-To: <20000809112354.FMXO925.fepC.post.tele.dk@SEGATE.SUNET.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology [mailto:BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU]Pε vegne af HStarJE@AOL.COM Sendt: 9. august 2000 06:43 Til: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Emne: Overwintering Nucs Hello: overwintering 5-frame nucs in styrofoam this year. I have put a little package of pictures (5 pieces) 800KB jpg format on the server, showing a Canadian ovewintering bee yard on five frames styropor hives in British Columbia Canada. Http://apimo.dk/programs/canada.exe selfextracting exefile. or http://apimo.dk/programs/canada.zip the beekeeper have thousands of hives and kill his production hives in Alberta every Year, then using the overwintering five frames nuc's in spring. best regards Jorn Johanesson best regards Jorn Johanesson New beekeing software and updates also beekeeping software for handheld computers. http://apimo.dk/programs/Bidata_palm2.zip for Palm compatible OS see Http://apimo.dk/whatsnew.htm http://apimo.dk/programs/bidatawin95_98_update3.exe EDBi = Multilingual software for beekeeping since 1997 home page = HTTP:\\apimo.dk e-mail Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:43:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: triangle board escapes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/10/00 6:00:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, morharn@MINT.NET writes: > So if you've done everything right and the triangle escape > board isn't working, give it up, that colony is too adept. MENSA members for sure! Maybe they should be bred. They might be smart enough to dodge the microdroplets of Sumithrin. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:50:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: SUMITHRIN TOXICITY TO BEESl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/10/00 6:15:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Vic.Thomas@AGNA.ZENECA.COM writes: > In answer to Aaron Morris' question regarding bee toxicity of Anvil 10 + 10 > ULV. The active ingredient , Sumithrin, is listed as highly toxic to bees in > the Farm Chemical Handbook. This is a puzzlement for me. One applicator locally has switched to Anvil, because bee protection directions are not on the label. I wonder about the history of the labeling process for this chemical, and will see if I can find any further info. If there is bee toxicity there is an important reason for the pesticide manufacturer to include the label directions, besides being good procedure -- bee-label directions tend to protect the manufacturer from liability, by transferring responsibility to the applicator. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:52:10 -0700 Reply-To: gregoire@endor.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Ernest J. Gregoire" Subject: Re: Hive stands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Vivian, and Gang, Vivian, a simple way is to use bricks on the edges of the bottom boards. They are relively cheap, last a long time and easy to install. Just place a brick under each corner of the screen bottom board and it is done. I use pallets obtained for free just for the asking. The OMBB, open mesh bottom boards sit on these to provide ventilation and mite dropping space. I do have one hive on concrete half blocks that are set in the earth. The OMBB is then set on bricks for ventilation. I made the OMBB myself and designed it to have a screen board which is removable from the back of the hive. This faciltates mite drop testing and cleaning. The hive remains on the OMBB while the screen board is pulled out from the rear of the hive. The bees hardly notice that the screen portion of the OMBB has been removed. I use freezer paper sprayed with Pam cooking oil for the mite drop test. I leave it there for 24 hours and pull it out the next day and return the scren board to is place. The in and out takes less than 30 seconds. Ernie Gregoire Grist Mill Apiary Canaan, NH The paper is viewed indoors with a magnifying glass,( old eyes ). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:55:55 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Please Read This before posting or replying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please remember to consult the guidelines when posting to BEE-L. I've recently noticed several good posts being discarded due to large quotes or signatures. The moderators are too busy to write each person who leaves large quotes on a post sent to the list. Please visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BEE-L/ for details. There were some problems with the site due to URL changes made at ALBANY.EDU, however all links should be working now. Please write allend@internode.net if they are not. Thank you. P.S. Please check your headers when replying personally to the writer of a BEE-L article. In many cases your post may be sent by accident to the list address, not the person intended and thus be lost. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:28:24 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Cherubini Subject: Re: SUMITHRIN TOXICITY TO BEESl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A few days ago Dr. Tom Floore, a research entomologist at a laboratory that has quote "made a career of assessing mosquito adulticides/larvicides bioassays and effects on nontarget organisms ranging from fish to bees." Here it is: Subject: Re: Impact of mosquito spraying on non-target insects Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 09:55:01 EDT From: TFloore@aol.com To: cherubini@mindspring.com Paul: That question has been addressed many times in FL. We use perhaps more adulticides than any other state in our mosquito control programs. The permethrins and malathion are the most often used. Permethrins come in a variety of formulations and label names depending on the supplier and manufacturer. Application rates range from 0.0007 ug/oz to slightly more than half oz [per acre] Malathion runs up to about 3 floz/a. We have found in FL that generally if the label rates recommendations are followed and common sense applications made that no harm will come to nontarget organisms including bees. This laboratory has made a career of assessing mosquito adulticides/larvicides bioassays and effects on nontarget organisms ranging from fish to bees. We can send you some publications or you can search our list of publications found at http://pherec.org/mls/JAMSARL.HTM The EPA has several facts sheets available from their site also. If your inquiry is in reference to West Nile Virus in the northeast I think that label rates will not create a problem and there is no concern at the level some are advocating. MOSQUITO PESTICIDE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT PUBLICATIONS: Moore, J.C., J.C. Dukes, J.R. Clark, J. Malone, C.F. Hallmon and P.G. Hester. 1993 Downwind drift and deposition of malathion on human targets from ground ultra-low volume mosquito sprays. Am. Mosq. Control Assoc. 9:138-142. Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester and K.R. Shaffer. 1994. Mass recovery of malathion in simulated open field mosquito adulticide tests. Archives of Environ. Contam. and Toxicol. 26:473-477. Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester, C.F. Hallmon, M.A. Olson, and K.R. Shaffer. 1991. AcuteToxicity of mosquitocidal compounds to young mosquitofish, Gambusia affinis. J. Amer. Mosquito Control Assoc. 7:290-293. Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester, J.C. Dukes, C.F. Hallmon, M.A. Olson, and K.R. Shaffer.1992. Acute toxicity of mosquitocidal compounds to the inland silverside, Menidia beryllina. Florida Mosq. Control Assoc. 63:1-6. Tietze, N.S. and E.T. Schreiber, P.G. Hester, C.F. Hallmon, M.A. Olson, and K.R.Shaffer. 1993. Susceptibility of first instar Toxorhynchites splendens to malathion, naled and resmethrin. J. Amer. Mosq. Control Assoc. 9:97-99 Tietze, N.S., J.P. Ruff, C. F. Hallmon, P.G. Hester and K.R. Shaffer. 1992. Effect of ULV malathion on automotive paint finishes. J. Amer. Mosquito Control Assoc. 8:241-246. Tietze, N.S. and E.T. Schreiber, P.G. Hester, C.F. Hallmon, M.A. Olson, and K.R.Shaffer. 1993. Susceptibility of first instar Toxorhynchites splendens to malathion, naled and resmethrin. J. Amer. Mosq. Control Assoc. 9:97-99. Tietze, N.S., M.A. Olson, P.G. Hester, and J. J. Moore. 1994. Tolerance of sewage treatment plant microorganisms to mosquitocides. J. Amer Mosquito Control Assoc.9:477-479. Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester and K.R. Shaffer, S. Prescott and E.T. Schreiber. 1999 Integrated management of waste tire mosquitoes utilizing Mesocyclops longisetus (Copepoda: Cyclopidae), Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis, Bacillus sphaericus, and methoprene. J. Am. Mosq. Control Assoc. 10:363-373. Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester, K.R. Shaffer and F.T. Wakefield 1996. Peridomestic deposition of ultra-low volume malathion applied as a mosquito adulticide. Bull. Environ. Contam. Toxicol.. 56:210-218 Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester and K.R. Shaffer. 1994. Acute toxicity of Permanone 31-66 (Permethrin-Piperonyl Butoxide) on nontarget minnows and grass shrimp. J. Am. Mosq. Control Assoc. 11:476-479 Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester, M. A. Olson, C. F. Hallmon and K.R. Shaffer. 1994. Acute toxicity of mosquito control compounds to Cyprinodon variegatus and Menidia beryllina: laboratory and field tests. J. Fla. Mosq. Control Assoc. 65:37-44. Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester and K.R. Shaffer. 1995. Acute effects of Permanone 31-66 (Permethrin-Piperonyl Butoxide) on nontarget minnows and grass shrimp. J. Am. Mosq. Control Assoc. 11:476-476. .Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester, K.R. Shaffer and F.T. Wakefield. 1996. Peridomestic deposition of ultra-low volume malathion applied as a mosquito adulticide. Bull. Environ. Contam. Toxicol. 56:210-218. Tietze, N.S., K.R. Shaffer and P.G. Hester. 1996. Halflife of naled under three test scenarios. J. Am. Mosq. Control Assoc. 12:251-254. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:21:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: beekeeping in the dark Hello all, A recent post asked about working her bees at night to avoid stings and bothering her neighbors working her bees. Bees crawl at night. They will crawl up your arms when picking up a hive. Up your pants leggs if removing frames and sitting the frames by the hive. I have worked bees both because i had a hive with a problem or a hive which hit the ground off a skid. Both fairly common with beekeepers which move bees at night. Lights in the area of the bees will cause flight even at night. Truck lights ,street lights or fork lift lights. A red colored light does not cause flight and can be used. Bees are harder to remove from clothing at night before getting back into truck. A bee brush helps. Bees have been split for years in the dark in huge warehouses. A semi load of bees are placed in the warehouse in the dark. Skids are placed next to the skids to be split. Only brood and sealed honey are looked at to determine splitting. Later all are given queen cells. A huge screen opening is at a end of the building letting in a certain amount of light. The bees which fly to the opening are used to make packages to sell to northern beekeepers. The bees are easily removed from the beekeepers when they walk from the building into the light. Bee cough is common in those warehouses. Bee cough for those not familier is a cough you get when around a huge amount of bees. The cough goes away after a few hours. The roar of bees can also effect your hearing like a trip to the local speedway. I will add a couple observations. One of the worst stinging events i went thru happened at night. I was digging thru hives trying to give brood to several hives as i knew i wouldn't be back in the area for a couple weeks. My pants leggs were not shut and the bees were stinging my ankles. I was busy working and not giving the bees thought. I was tired and the sun was comming up and i wanted to get on the road. As i drove the bee truck back to the main road i felt light headed. I stopped the truck as i felt i was going to pass out. I stepped from the truck and passed out. I woke up about twenty minutes later to the sound of birds chirping and bright sunlight. No anaphylaxis shock or side effects but did have to get two stiches in my head from when my head hit the pavement. The only time i ever passed out in my life. My doctor thought the cold medicene i had been taking added to the problem. I pulled a huge number of stingers from my ankles. I had worn tennis shoes with elastic around the pants for years but now wear boots with elastic. Any similar events? I prefer moving bees at night but working bees in the daylight! Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:44:17 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: SUMITHRIN TOXICITY TO BEESl Comments: To: TFloore@aol.com Comments: cc: BOMBUS-L@umdd.umd.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: TFloore@aol.com Forwarded to Bee List by Paul Chrubini <> (Dr. Floore's bibliography follows at end of letter) Dr. Floore: Paul Cerubini has forwarded to our list your comments and bibliography about bee toxicity. Other than your opinion that you cite, that "no harm" includes bees, you do not, in your bibliography include any relevant research. All the listings you have are for human or other non-target organisms, not Apis or Bombus or the other bee species used for pollination. I ask you why there is no study in your list that refers specifically to Apis or Bombus? Does this mean that officialdom doesn't want to see? Or is there actually a bona fide study of this? I'd like to see one that compares the impact on bees when labels are obeyed and when the bee protection directions are violated. There are many indications contradicting your statement of opinion, including reports of bee kills from the Medfly spraying in your state a couple years ago. (BTW, were those beekeepers ever compensated?) I personally documented heavy losses of honeybees in the Homestead, Florida area, following Hurricane Andrew, and you may find the article in the archives of the Homestead newspaper, if you want to see it. In this case, the applications were clearly in violation of the bee directions of the label, and I'm sure the beekeeper was never compensated. I have documented a heavily damaged beekeeping operation here in SC last year, which has been officially admitted to be in violation of the bee label directions. You can see this at: http://member.aol.com/gardenbees/ (Check Part II) (Incidently I also saw dying and dead butterflies after the applications.) I personally lost tens of thousands in the post-Hugo applications following Hurricane Hugo in 1989. When this is compounded by the loss of my income from lack of bees to rent for pollination, and production of nucs and honey in the following season, my losses are easily over a hundred thousand. Add to this the losses to farmers from loss of wild pollinators, and the inability to get bees from beekeepers such as myself, then it runs into the millions. I've never been compensated, nor have the farmers who also lost. I believe that losses of bees from the commonly used mosquito adulticides is negligeable, IF they are applied according to the label, when bees are not foraging. However, many of these applications are routinely in violation of the label, and this is where the damage mounts up quickly. Applicators try to circumvent the label by telling beekeepers to protect the bees, but this gives no protection whatsoever to many pollinators that are un-tended such as Bombus, or that cannot be protected by beekeepers with other jobs, etc. In my own case, the massive areal applications in 1989 affected my bees on any given day in multiple locations, many of which were impossible to reach anyway, because of downed trees. At any rate I cannot be in multiple locations at the same time. In eager expectation I, and the members of these Bee Lists, await your response. David L. Green The Pollination Home Page http://pollinator.com Dr Floore's Bibliography MOSQUITO PESTICIDE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT PUBLICATIONS: Moore, J.C., J.C. Dukes, J.R. Clark, J. Malone, C.F. Hallmon and P.G. Hester. 1993 Downwind drift and deposition of malathion on human targets from ground ultra-low volume mosquito sprays. Am. Mosq. Control Assoc. 9:138-142. Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester and K.R. Shaffer. 1994. Mass recovery of malathion in simulated open field mosquito adulticide tests. Archives of Environ. Contam. and Toxicol. 26:473-477. Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester, C.F. Hallmon, M.A. Olson, and K.R. Shaffer. 1991. AcuteToxicity of mosquitocidal compounds to young mosquitofish, Gambusia affinis. J. Amer. Mosquito Control Assoc. 7:290-293. Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester, J.C. Dukes, C.F. Hallmon, M.A. Olson, and K.R. Shaffer.1992. Acute toxicity of mosquitocidal compounds to the inland silverside, Menidia beryllina. Florida Mosq. Control Assoc. 63:1-6. Tietze, N.S. and E.T. Schreiber, P.G. Hester, C.F. Hallmon, M.A. Olson, and K.R.Shaffer. 1993. Susceptibility of first instar Toxorhynchites splendens to malathion, naled and resmethrin. J. Amer. Mosq. Control Assoc. 9:97-99 Tietze, N.S., J.P. Ruff, C. F. Hallmon, P.G. Hester and K.R. Shaffer. 1992. Effect of ULV malathion on automotive paint finishes. J. Amer. Mosquito Control Assoc. 8:241-246. Tietze, N.S. and E.T. Schreiber, P.G. Hester, C.F. Hallmon, M.A. Olson, and K.R.Shaffer. 1993. Susceptibility of first instar Toxorhynchites splendens to malathion, naled and resmethrin. J. Amer. Mosq. Control Assoc. 9:97-99. Tietze, N.S., M.A. Olson, P.G. Hester, and J. J. Moore. 1994. Tolerance of sewage treatment plant microorganisms to mosquitocides. J. Amer Mosquito Control Assoc.9:477-479. Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester and K.R. Shaffer, S. Prescott and E.T. Schreiber. 1999 Integrated management of waste tire mosquitoes utilizing Mesocyclops longisetus (Copepoda: Cyclopidae), Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis, Bacillus sphaericus, and methoprene. J. Am. Mosq. Control Assoc. 10:363-373. Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester, K.R. Shaffer and F.T. Wakefield 1996. Peridomestic deposition of ultra-low volume malathion applied as a mosquito adulticide. Bull. Environ. Contam. Toxicol.. 56:210-218 Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester and K.R. Shaffer. 1994. Acute toxicity of Permanone 31-66 (Permethrin-Piperonyl Butoxide) on nontarget minnows and grass shrimp. J. Am. Mosq. Control Assoc. 11:476-479 Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester, M. A. Olson, C. F. Hallmon and K.R. Shaffer. 1994. Acute toxicity of mosquito control compounds to Cyprinodon variegatus and Menidia beryllina: laboratory and field tests. J. Fla. Mosq. Control Assoc. 65:37-44. Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester and K.R. Shaffer. 1995. Acute effects of Permanone 31-66 (Permethrin-Piperonyl Butoxide) on nontarget minnows and grass shrimp. J. Am. Mosq. Control Assoc. 11:476-476. .Tietze, N.S., P.G. Hester, K.R. Shaffer and F.T. Wakefield. 1996. Peridomestic deposition of ultra-low volume malathion applied as a mosquito adulticide. Bull. Environ. Contam. Toxicol. 56:210-218. Tietze, N.S., K.R. Shaffer and P.G. Hester. 1996. Halflife of naled under three test scenarios. J. Am. Mosq. Control Assoc. 12:251-254. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 14:51:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: SUMITHRIN TOXICITY TO BEESl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spraying here in Ky. for mosquitos is rare. Last week they did it. I know not why. I live on a dead end lane and the spraying person turned around at my hives. I stopped him on the way out. He gave me the epa paper work and he was spraying anvin. No mention of bees or any other insect on these papers. As far as I can tell, There have been now ill effects on my bees. Just lucky I guess. Richard ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 15:08:24 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: SUMITHRIN TOXICITY TO BEESl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/10/00 11:53:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, RASpiek@AOL.COM writes: > Spraying here in Ky. for mosquitos is rare. Last week they did it. I know > not why. I live on a dead end lane and the spraying person turned around at > my hives. I stopped him on the way out. He gave me the epa paper work and > he was spraying anvin. No mention of bees or any other insect on these > papers. As far as I can tell, There have been now ill effects on my bees. > Just lucky I guess. Richard, Were the bees inside, or were they out flying at the time of application? Was there any bloom that bees were visiting that was in the spray area? Normally bees inside the hive are not affected, but at the flower. There can be aftereffects in the hive, if poisoned pollen is brought back. I've not had firsthand experience with Sumithrin, and am very interested in your response. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 22:36:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Dee Lusbys research Hello all, Many of you have asked my thoughts on Dee Lusbys work and cell size. Dee and i disagree about the when ,why and who of the change in cell size. Both of us agree that cell size wasn't important until apis melifera became host to varroa. Dee & Ed now have got hundreds of hives on 4.9mm foundation. To small you say? I don't think so! I will quote from page 79 of "The Encyclopedia of Beekeeping" by Roger Morse and Ted Hooper. quote: Normal Honeycomb is of two sizes:worker comb has cells 5mm in diameter,and drone comb has cells 6mm across. If normal worker comb is 5mm why is all the worlds foundation on the market from 5.3 to 5.7mm? The only logical conclusion about Dees work is that when apis melifera is on the right cell size foundation varroa can't build up to the levels needed to kill its host. Dees ten years of work has proven to me she was indeed right about her theory. Food for thought: at 4.6mm worker cell size varroa can't reproduce in cells. At 4.7mm worker cell size only one mite can possibly reproduce. When you think about Dr. Shiminuki's theory about the screen bottoms you really see the importance of the above. Every mite which falls below lowers the fall mite count. Hence every mite not allowed to reproduce greatly reduces the fall mite count. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri U.S. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:19:28 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bees and wing beats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The easiest way to work out how fast a bee beats her wings is to find somebody musical who can tell you the note that is produced. For instance I am told (not being musical myself) that the honey bee in normal mode produces a note close to middle C which (from memory) is 256 beats per second. I was talking to a would be beekeeper once who, having a good ear was able to distinguish between the sound of a normal inquisitive bee and one that was about to attack. She did say what the note was but I have forgotten. You can also buy electronic tuners which would probably tell you but I don't know if they are as good as an expert ear. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:00:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: bumble bees Comments: cc: Tammy Vitale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, My neighbor came to me the other day after having been stung several = times by bumble bees. It seems that they had made a home in one of his = bird houses. The post had rotted off at the ground level and it fell = across his neighbors fence. When he went to move it the bees came out = and attacked him. I went down to see the bees and access the situation. There were = several bees flying around the birdhouse and some coming and going. He = wanted me to kill them. He said that he had sprayed them with wasp = killer and had went to the store and purchased some more. I told him = that number one, I would not kill the bees, but that I would get rid of = them for him. I thought about it for a while and came up with a simple solution. I = said I would meet him right after dark. I asked to have available a = large plastic trash bag and a light. I went down at dark. He was ready = with a flashlight and a plastic bag. He was also ready. He had on a = heavy sweat shirt and long pants. He had big leather gloves and some = kind of hat that I couldn't make out too well in the dark. And big = boots. I had on a pair of shorts, canvas shoes and a baseball cap. He = looked at me and said, "I guess you are not going to help me." Quite = the contrary! I just put the plastic bag over the bird house, wrapped it around the = pole and walked it to the woods and leaned it up against a tree. I was = a little apprehensive about taking the bag back off, but I got it off = with not too much trouble. =20 I looked at the hive a couple days later and did not see any bees = around. So I went up to it and rapped on it and heard a lot of buzzing. = There were a few bees still hanging around the old location wondering = where there house was. Billy Bee ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 17:54:30 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Cherubini Subject: Re: SUMITHRIN TOXICITY TO BEESl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David L. Green wrote: > I ask you why there is no study in your list that refers specifically to > Apis or Bombus? Does this mean that officialdom doesn't want to see? Dave, you (or anyone) could ask Dr. Floore directly for the publications he has that cover the issue of mosquito spraying and bees. His contact information can be found by browsing this website: http://pherec.org/mls/JAMSARL.HTM > I personally documented heavy losses of honeybees in the > Homestead, Florida area, following Hurricane Andrew > I personally lost tens of thousands in the post-Hugo applications > following Hurricane Hugo in 1989. Dave, it seems like you have experienced bee losses only during the days following major hurricanes such as Hugo in '89, Andrew in the mid-90's & Floyd last year. Apparently, mosquito spraying was conducted during the daytime hours during those periods (normally mosquito spraying is done at dusk or at night) when there was a public health emergency (hurricane victums, some now homeless, had to work outdoors and sleep outdoors with zillions of mosquitoes around biting them). Is that the case? What reason do the public health officials give for spraying during the daytime hours during the post hurricane aftermath? Paul Cherubini ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 08:06:05 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Riach Subject: Clearing boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We use multi exit clearing boards, (sometimes called Canadian clearing boards here in the UK) and find them to be very fast. However they have one drawback, if they are left on more than 12 hours under the supers the bees simply crawl back in through the openings (this is only natural since if a bee can get out through the opening it can get in through the opening) There seems to be a period of "learning" since up to about 12 hours they clear the supers almost completely (perhaps a dozen bees left) Left on for a day and a half they are 3/4 full of bees again. Anyone had similar experiences with these boards? Alan Riach Bathgate (The Wild Boar Wood) Edinburgh ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 23:32:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Newcomb Subject: Re: Fume boards for beginners MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I disagree with Ernies comments regarding Bee-Go. Is if foul? YES!! Does it work? YES. I have tried the blower routine on 12 colonies. I was always bringing too many bees back home on the supers. Last year I tried Bee-Go for the first time. I easily cleared the supers. I found that placing the fume board on one hive, applying 1-2 teaspoons of Bee-Go, and leaving in place for about 3 minutes, cleared the top super about 100%, and the second super about 80%. When I was ready to remove the top super from the first hive, I simply placed the fume board onto the top super of the adjacent hive. Then I carried the first cleared super to my truck. If the second super was cleared, I took it to the truck too. By that time, the second hive was ready for super removal. I then placed the fume board either back onto the first hive (if I had 3 or more supers), or onto a third hive. I was able to remove 25 supers in less than 30 minutes. As far as what to do with a smelly fume board, just burn it or throw it away. Instead of buying a fume board, I nailed together (4) 3/4" square sticks into a frame about the size of a super. Then I stretched a piece of black felt across it. It cost me about $1. It was easier to pitch it than find a place where it wouldn't stink up everything. This summer, in an emergency, I used an old dish towel that I kept as a rag in my tool bucket. It was a little bit smaller than a super, but it worked great. I left it hanging from a bush in the yard, so I can use it again if necessary. This fall it will go into the garbage. Remember, Bee-Go only works when the temperature is in the upper 70's, or higher. Steve Newcomb Elyria, OH ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 08:25:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: SUMITHRIN TOXICITY TO BEESl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave, I'm sorry that I didn't give more info. The spraying was done soon after dark and all bees were in the hive. The mist from the fogger fell on at least 6 hives as the truck turned around within 20 feet of the furthest hive. There is no significant bloom that I know of here in Ky. ( I have a small melon and squash patch) but there is a lot of pollen coming into the hives. I have been watching the hives closely observing them each twice a day. I have seen no ill effects after a week. No dead or dying bees, no noticable decline in numbers of flying bees. I would open the hives but I'm not sure that I would learn from this because I had not opened them just prior to the spraying and would not have a comparison in mind. The county officials said that they would compensate me for any losses and would not spray in this area again. They only spray after dark for flying mosquitos. None of the information that I was given had any cautionary statements for the sprays concerning anything except the safety equipment of humans doing the spraying. I feel as though I have dodged a bullet. Richard So.Cent. Ky. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 09:13:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: Bees and wing beats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The wings of the bees are with a harmony of sound. The leading edges of the front wing has the curve on the underside that is like a violin string vibration. The underside is with Frisbee or parachutes to hold the lift air. At about 400 to 600 magnification you will see a tube much like a flute the bottoms are broken at the area that the under wind hits. The structural brace on this front wing is near the leading edge of the wing thus leaving the wing to flop in the wing like a flag. The second wings structural brace is back 1/3 of the surface of the wing leaving the front edge of this wing to follow the depressions made by the flag flapping. The extended 2/3 of the wing flops in the sound that we hear some where between 240 and 265cps. This will vary when a bee is in you face and speaking to you that she is mad or not happy with you there. The underside of the wing is a crystalline that will crack like a window glass. The fun can be enjoyed when you put tubes like wind chimes at the entrance fly zone. Add a little water after sealing the bottom of the tubes to tune the pipes. The bees will play with them by flying over and getting sounds back. Michael Housel Orlando, FL ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 07:52:40 -0600 Reply-To: flightdeck1@earthlink.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: bumble bees - recent experience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From a recent experience moving a small hive of bumble bees we should all be a bit wary in the move of such giant stinging insects. Bumble bees don't waste time bouncing off your face mask, nor do they warn you away by noisily buzzing their wings. Don't count on the scent of perspiration or dark coloring to draw away their attention. They see skin and sting - without hesitation. Two weeks ago I was called to pick up a hive and wore shorts because "Bumble bees are too big and sluggish to cause concern". Big mistake. My trusty beevac only helped with the scrambling bees inside the nest. One newly arriving bee took a look at her missing hive and made a bee-line for my legs. We sort of did a bee-tango of sorts lasting several minutes, much to the pleasure of the homeowners looking out their screened window. Me with my beevac hose pointed in the direction of my partner, the bee, sizing up my legs from different angles and ever evasive of the vacuum and graceful in flight despite her "clumsy size". The bumble bee eventually lost her 'lead' in that dance and was scooped by my gloved hand while she veered from the vacuum tip. The second occasion the bumblebees had "a go at me" was in placing the hive. Feeling smarter I was confident those bees would be held at bay by an old pair of Levi's. I was greatly disappointed 2 seconds after I opened the box when a bee found the hole in my pants; This hole was completely forgotten right up until the moment of impact. This wasn't a sting like any other. In all my involvement with honeybees pulling out incredibly mean feral hives I can't remember an occasion that caused me to actually 'yelp'. When she stung me it was if another person wore my body, both reaching back and grabbing their butt in exclamation - and letting out an audible "yelp! - much like you'd see in the sunday comics. Only to realize seconds later that it WAS me in this funny predicament and better yet, the bees flying around weren't satisfied. Running was a good idea, but the ever bee-conscious manager realized their hive was exposed. Dropping a cover of woodware ontop, my exit was expeditious all the while holding the rip in my levis. Next time I'll take someone to film the event. Matthew Westall // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 08:04:53 -0600 Reply-To: flightdeck1@earthlink.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Re: beekeeping in the dark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The dark can be another tool vested to beekeeping but certainly not to be used 'lightly'. Bob's experience with crawling bees is one I've shared. Bees without the benefit of daylight are sure to crawl quietly to the best part of your body that will ensure an impact of the most devastating kind, and squat in that spot driving her stinger three times deeper than she would otherwise during daylight. Finding time for beekeeping can sometimes drive a semi-commercial beekeeper to keep odd hours. Last night I supered three hives in the dark knowing full well to keep my feet free from wherever bees could drop to the ground. The good part about hiving bees at night is testing out your equipment. You never really know how good your bee suit REALLY is until you've stirred up several thousand bees in the dark. Think your suit is bee-proof? Matthew Westall // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 0100 14:11:24 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Tooley Subject: Bee go Our experience with beego is:smells awfull(try not to inhale too much of it) Works great on warm days.We run 8 boards at a time and 2 people can remove alot of supers quickly.Dont let the bees pour out the entrance.(on too long)We always bring a leaf blower along to remove residual bees.We stagger the supers in the extracting room and have a fan going to air them out a day or two.Bag your fume board up in a plastic garbage bag and store till next season.Mike Tooley --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using InterStar WebMail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:51:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: SUMITHRIN TOXICITY TO BEESl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/11/00 5:27:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, RASpiek@AOL.COM writes: > The spraying was done soon > after dark and all bees were in the hive. The mist from the fogger fell on > at least 6 hives as the truck turned around within 20 feet of the furthest > hive. I have hives in veggie fields that are sprayed all the time with stronger stuff than Anvil. When the spraying is done at night, or at least after the bees are done flying, there is no real hazard to the bees. I've had the boom on a spray rig pass right over the hives on nightime sprays. The bees are inside and are mostly unaffected. A few guard bees at the entrance may catch a droplet and die. By morning the dew has broken down the non-residual pesticide and it is no longer toxic. The pesticide applicators seem to think the problem is spraying the hives. This is not the problem. Beekeepers should know better, and should be educating the applicators. The problem is at the FLOWER. And the label protection makes no mention of the hives, their location is irrelevant. The legal protection is at the flower, which is in the application area. Get a copy of the labels of some of the common insecticides from your farm store or at Crop Data Protection Systems, http://www.cdms.net/manuf/manuf.asp or some of the manufacturers listed at: http://pollinator.com/pesticide_misuse.htm You will see that all label directions have to do with bees coming to flowers in the application area. I once had a tobacco grower call me; he was upset. He said, "I've got to spray my tobacco!" I had bees about a hundred feet from the field. "Do you have flowers on your tobacco?" I asked him. "Of course not, only poor farmers leave the blossoms." "If there are no flowers, bees will not be present in the field. Go ahead. There is no problem." He was relieved. Beekeepers should be well aware of what blossoms the bees are working. If these blossoms happen to be the clover in a neighboring orchard floor, or the tassels on a local sweet corn field, or the blooming alfalfa in a local hayfield, then they have reason for concern, and they should know the common pesticide practices, and what the labels say for the normally used materials. I have seen hundreds of bee kills and have not seen one yet that did not involve violation of the label directions. A good tool for educating beekeepers, and even more important, applicators, is the flow chart at: http://pollinator.com/cotton/flowchart.htm It's designed for cotton, but works for any kind of application. Print copies of this and give them to pesticide applicators, such as your county mosquito sprayers. As it is, they did everything right, as far as bees are concerned. They may not have understood why, but they did. You can complement them. But give them the chart anyway. The question that sparked this theme is Anvil (sumithrin) which, of all the mosquito adulticides (=insecticides to kill adult mosquitoes, as opposed to larvicides, which don't affect bees), does not have any bee directions. Since this material is listed in the manuals as toxic to bees, we are concerned whether there was a glitch in the labeling process, or if there is some mechanism of protection for bees that is not operative with other adulticides. David L. Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:14:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Overwintering nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Cushman asks why upper ventilation is so important, and says that he has over-wintered without upper ventilation without difficulty. Jorn Johanssen says he has successfully overwintered in Styrofoam (polystyrene) hives in Denmark and reports beekeepers doing so in British Columbia, Canada. (He does not address whether upper ventilation is provided). My initial comments on the subject were less than complete. I will try to do better. If hives are constructed "tight", meaning little to no opportunities for air circulation and exchange other than at the entrance, and the entrance is at the bottom of the hives, internal condensation will probably occur where bees are over wintered in cold climates. This condensation will accumulate until water drips onto the cluster, soaking the bees and eventually killing them. The bee cluster has an internal temperature of approximately 90 degrees F. (32 C.) The air within the cluster is, of course, of the same temperature and picks up moisture from the honey. As this warm air rises, it comes into contact with the hive cover or crown board (inner cover). Unless the top of the hive is insulated, the hive cover or crown board will be approximately the same temperature as the outside air. In cold climates, there will be a significant difference between the 90 F of the warm air inside the cluster and the top of the hive. This will result in quickly cooling the warm air, which will mean that it can no longer hold as much moisture, which will cause condensation to build on the hive cover or crown board. If this condensation continues to build, it will cause water to drip onto the bees in the cluster, which do not have any means to dry themselves. (The bees on the outside of the cluster might be surviving at a temperature of 60 F (15 C) and the dripping moisture must be particularly dangerous for them.) I don't know where Dave Cushman lives, but if he has not had difficulty with condensation one or more of the following has to be true: a. The winters do not have extreme cold. I forget the temperature differences required for condensation, but they are significant as the typical 30 degree (F) difference between the inside and the outside of the bee cluster does not result in condensation. b. The hives are well insulated, so that there are not considerable temperature differences between the cover(s) and the warm air generated by the cluster. c. There are, in fact, upper entrances that allow the warm, moist air to escape before it condenses. Such entrances might be as simple as corners or covers that do not fit tight, small knot holes, etc. To properly consider the success of the polystyrene hives in Denmark and British Columbia, one must consider the average winter temperatures. Jorn says the average in Denmark is 0 degrees C, which is 32 F. This is considerably higher than winter temperatures in much of the US, and is much like temperatures in Washington D.C. I know from personal experience the winter temperatures in British Columbia vary considerably. Around the city of Vancouver and on Vancouver Island it rarely snows and when it does the snow melts the following day! Further north is some of the most severe weather in the world! My guess is that where the bees are over-wintered in nucs they have reasonably mild temperatures. The polystyrene (Styrofoam) hives I have seen from Sweden and the nucs from Canada are extremely well made and fit together very well. Again, my concern is whether they are too well made (for our climate) and will produce considerable condensation. Anyone have any experience with them in a climate where outside temperatures are regularly in a range of 0F to-30F (-17C to -34C)? Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:34:29 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: beekeeping in the dark Comments: To: flightdeck1@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/11/00 7:19:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, flightdeck1@EARTHLINK.NET writes: > The good part about hiving bees at night is testing out your equipment. You > never really know how good your bee suit REALLY is until you've stirred up > several thousand bees in the dark. Think your suit is bee-proof? I don't wear a bee suit. I occasionally have to load individual hives by hand, after dark. If one is smooth in motion and careful not to jar the bees, when setting the hive in place on the truck, one can usually load without the bees having time to wake up. But for me it tests how well I (or my assistants) stapled the bottom board. Once in awhile as you pick up the hive, the bottom board drops onto your feet. Boy, I HATE IT WHEN THAT HAPPENS! There you are, 75 miles from home, and anxious to get back there, and here you've got this ONE hive all apart and thousands of crawlers. Believe me, it WILL get on that truck. I tripped once, carrying a hive, then fell right on top of it. The cover and super came entirely off, and the frames fell out of the super. That's a fun job with no gloves! Remind me to carry a pair, even if I hate to use them. I helped another beekeeper load a truck of nucs this past spring, and he moved the truck ahead a bit, with the last, partially finished tier not strapped (yeah, when you are tired you sometimes take chances to "save" time), and the whole tier toppled, some going clear to the ground. Boy did we have fun! You could hear some of the most unearthy shrieks, and words that have not yet been invented... When you HAVE to work at night, after the load is strapped, and the truck is moved away from the loading area, turn on the headlights and each one take a full turn with arms up, so others can pick off the crawlers. If you don't get them all, you can have an interesting ride. Bees can find some strange locations to surprise you (100 miles down the road, eh?). Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:43:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Hamilton Subject: Re: Overwintering nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I have found that taking an entire newspaper .. stapling it shut to prevent wind blowing it all over .. placing on the inner cover ( beneath the telescoping cover) provides both insulation and absorbs moisture. You can still turn the inner cover notch down and slightly prop the t-cover to provide an upper enterance and exhaust port. Dave ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 17:00:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lucinda Sewell Subject: Alcohol conversion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, My first dry mead has just cleared and lost the woody taste (1 year almost to the day) Wow! A good reason for getting stung! Why on earth do we waste this gift on bread? I used the oldest recipe I could find (Mix honey and rainwater until it will just float a new-laid egg...) and after a few 'accidental' sips whilst racking now wish to calculate the alcohol content. Which my tastebuds claim to be fairly high. My question is can I use the same calculations as beer made with sucrose? Does honey ferment similarly to sucrose? Thanks John Sewell ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:09:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Hamilton Subject: Re: Alcohol conversion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I think you need to have a measurement prior to fermentation .. now you will just have to drink and enjoy .. assuming its pretty alcoholic >> after a few 'accidental' sips whilst racking now wish to >>calculate the alcohol content. Which my tastebuds claim to be fairly high. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 12:24:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Alcohol conversion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> wish to calculate the alcohol content. > I think you need to have a measurement prior to fermentation Actually there is another way by weighing a known volume, then evaporating off the alcohol and weighing what's left. Comparing before and after weights will give you the alcohol percentage, but I don't recall the specifics. This thread is will probably be more fruitful on the mead lovers list. Aaron Morris - thinking better living through chemistry! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:08:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: beekeeping in the dark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Bob's experience with crawling bees is one I've shared. Has anyone seen a bee jump? I could have sworn in one case that they were jumping, that is no wing movement, from the hive towards me. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:19:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael Bassett Subject: Re: SUMITHRIN TOXICITY TO BEESl On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 08:25:18 EDT, Richard Spiekhout wrote: No dead or dying bees, no noticable >decline in numbers of flying bees. I have had bees in areas sprayed with similar pestisides with uv inhibiter. I have had no significant bees killed by the sprays. the sprays were applied to corn in the area I pollinate. as close as 100 ft away. but what I am monitoring now is out of 17 hives, over the winter 9 of the hives went queenless. Since these were not my queens but queens I purchased I can't be sure if the queens just failed, in four of the hives they hatched out new queens that had wonderful brood patterns that were all droans. My suspicion is that they bring in the pollen with the pesticide with the uv inhibiters and over time over the fall and winter this may contribute to the queens demise. I requeend most of the hives this year with my own and will requeen the remaining few later in the fall and see if history repeats. if anyone else has had or notices symptoms similar could you please let me know thanks mike ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:51:26 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: beekeeping in the dark In-Reply-To: <200008111746.NAA26168@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Bob's experience with crawling bees is one I've shared. > > Has anyone seen a bee jump? I could have sworn in one case that they were > jumping, that is no wing movement, from the hive towards me. I have, mostly at dusk or night time. Some bees are pretty determined -- and smart. allen -- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Package installation, performance experiments, winter loss, fondant feeding, Pierco vs. Permadent vs. dark comb, unwrapping, splitting tricks, queen cells, AFB, varroa, protein patties, daily mumblings and more... Thousands served... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:44:46 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: grizzly bearnolds Subject: Re: Overwintering nucs In-Reply-To: <200008111536.LAA21240@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Overwintering nucs >Anyone have any experience with them in a climate where outside temperatures >are regularly in a range of 0F to-30F (-17C to -34C)? We have experienced close to ten years of small scale beekeeping in Northern British Columbia / Canada, where the falls / winters / springs are usually wet / cold / damp, with temperatures ranging often from +5C to -30C during the winter, and snow not often available in any quantities to provide insulation. Of danger are the cold dampness, drafts, and condensation during the winter. The following is what we have been coming up with during the years and what seems to assist our bees to survive, though last winter was an extreme wether related and we hear that even well known and long standing beekeepers in the next town had terrific losses which would not happen during other years. Varroa and tracheal mites are not yet present in this small area of British Columbia, hives have been tested for those. In this a bit isolated valley, our few hives (usually 3 to 4) are moved back for the winter into an open shed, where the hive boxes are protected from the constant rains and some of the strong winds and drafts. My husband built a box on which two hives are placed. The box is a high as a normal brood box. One light bulb is inside that box which burns more or less constantly once the temperature falls below 0C. This tiny amount of warmth that rises up into the two hives above seems to assist the bees in that any moisture build up is either prevented or reduced. Losses to dampness have not occurred since, while before those winter losses were heavy. Our hives are packed and insulated as well with sheets of styrofoam. Air can circulate from the open bottom entrance, going through the hive, and can escape at the very top through the wire mesh opening. Each hive is topped with a covered empty brood box as an additional buffer zone to help keep the hive's warmth, and we are able to supply additional syrup through the warmer parts of the winter using that box. Often our bees remain hive bound from early September on until the middle to end of April, with few chances to fly out due to poor weather, they may come out at the entrance and crawl around a bit there, but don't fly. Our solution may not be the norm, yet it seems to assist our bees to survive much better. This was our solution to combat dampness and moisture, it does not seem to encourage the bees to be much more active than they should. They move to take syrup during the warmer parts of the winter, they cluster when it gets really cold. We have not tried to overwinter nukes and do combine any small hives. We use wooden brood boxes, not any made of styrofoam. To improve our situation, we plan this fall to provide each hive with an upper entrance, in addition to their regular bottom entrance. The hives will be moved to a different winter location so that they are able to determine earlier in the year that the sun has come out and that they can fly out earlier, my husband will start the new bee shed at the new location within the week, to have ready by early September. Also, each hive shall have it's normal cover, but on which the opening will no longer be covered by wire mesh, so that the bees can reach any desired syrup directly without the hindrance of the wire mesh during the warmer parts of the winter. We only keep a few hives and realize that what we do will not work for a large operation. The challenge for us lies in that we try to help the bees survive our local unfavourable winter conditions which can vary from one extreme to another, from one day to the next. Ma. / British Columbia, CANADA Nass Valley Bees - Donkey - Horses mailto:mkittner@nisgaa.bc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 14:58:43 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Bees and wing beats Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Chris Slade wrote (in part): >The easiest way to work out how fast a bee beats her wings is to find >somebody musical who can tell you the note that is produced. For instance I >am told (not being musical myself) that the honey bee in normal mode produces >a note close to middle C which (from memory) is 256 beats per second. The frequency he reported seems quite correct. In our study of bee sounds, we used an adjustable strobe light shined on a bee with wings moving. By adjusting the dial, the wings appear stopped when the strobe light has the same frequency. An audiospectrograph also does well, as we used back in the early 1960s. Actually bees produce many different sound frequencies, as I reported in a 1964 SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN article. One can see that article as #4 on http://www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm While I no longer agree with some of the conclusions in that article, the sound spectrographs remain valid. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ******************************************************************** * * "When we meet a fact which contradicts a prevailing theory, * we must accept the fact and abandon the theory, even when * the theory is supported by great names and generally accepted." * * --- Claude Bernard, 1865 ******************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 18:10:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: Alcohol Conversion Hi. I've always counted a pound of honey as a pound of sugar, and found it worked. I can't remember what the exact conversion is (can't find my wine making books since I moved) but it's near enough. Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 22:20:33 +0200 Reply-To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: VS.: Ovewintering nucs In-Reply-To: <20000811154657.IIPT425.fepD.post.tele.dk@SEGATE.SUNET.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jorn Johanssen says he has successfully overwintered in Styrofoam (polystyrene) hives in Denmark and reports beekeepers doing so in British Columbia, Canada. (He does not address whether upper ventilation is provided). My own hives are tight and without upper ventilation. But I use open mesh bottom boards. I place a sheet of clear plastic under the lid, and the bees glue it fest with propolis all way round, so there is no upper entrance at all. I have no problems with condensed water in those hives. The nuchs is placed on top of strong hives as you will place a super, but there will be this sheet of plastic between the strong family and the three queen nuch box. This box is also covered with a sheet of clear plastic, and the bees in the nuc's also glue al the way round. The lid is isolated with a 30mm styropor plate. The supers I have is 30mm Styrofoam in wall thickness. I am using no additional isolation, because it is ok for us here. Styrofoam is a high class isolator. For information. One langstoth box with wooden frames and foundation 10 pieces is 4.5kg the Canadian beekeeper showed us the over wintering bee yard. His boxes are about 30mm thick and tight. there are no open mesh button bard because he use the bottom to feed through the entrance. on one of The pictures http://apimo.dk/programs/canada.zip or http://apimo.dk/programs/canada.exe I put on the server shows a pile of covers with mesh but those are for wandering, not for stationary use. He is what I will call a big beekeeper, several thousand families (five thousand if I recall right). and the beekeeper family developed those nuc Styrofoam boxes themselves. Each nuc is feeded with 3kg sucker in autumn and 2 kg sucker in spring. he use one varroastrip a nuc, and I recall he also mentioned it was needed to give medicine against nosema. best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi = Multilingual software for beekeeping since 1997 home page = HTTP:\\apimo.dk e-mail Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 12:46:05 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ron Law Subject: Reuters | New Breed of Bee Comments: To: NZ Bkprs , NBA List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.reuters.com/news.jhtml?type=science&Repository=SCIENCE_REP&RepositoryStoryID=%2Fnews%2FIDS%2FScience%2FSCIENCE-CANADA-BEES-DC_TXT.XML ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 13:08:35 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Mann Subject: fat-free label? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In response to the interesting suggestion that it might pay to label honey 'fat-free', David Green wrote: > The minute you make any health claims on honey, you come under a lot >stricter regulation. You have to prove your claims. That may be correct, but does it follow that an assertion of chemical fact, the simple statement 'fat-free', must be legally counted as a health claim? If the label said not only 'fat-free' but also some claim such as 'and will therefore decrease your chances of a heart attack', then I'd expect officialdom to clamp down . . . R - Robt Mann consultant ecologist P O Box 28878 Remuera, Auckland 1005, New Zealand (9) 524 2949 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 00:23:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: beekeeping in the dark In-Reply-To: <200008101726.NAA23828@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200008101726.NAA23828@listserv.albany.edu>, Bob Harrison writes >Hello all, >A recent post asked about working her bees at night to avoid stings and >bothering her neighbors working her bees. >Bees crawl at night. They will also fly at night. At me. Quiet colonies in the daytime *can* become stingers at night. This applies to putting feeders on, putting wet supers back on to clean up and provide more space for honey, preparing colonies to move next morning, even to blocking the entrance up, but especially lifting the top off. An old friend and colleague, used to go to his hives before 7 a.m. and said they were docile then. They are said to navigate by UV which they get from the north sky. They are said to work at night in more northern latitudes! -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 04:10:02 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Mead-Lover's Digest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In respect to mead questions, the Mead-Lover's Digest has no parallel. Open discussion of mead and mead making, including discussions of honey beer, Metheglin, honey liqueurs, etc. has been underway there since 1992. The Mead-Lover's Digest is a mailing list, somewhat like BEE-L and has both an active list and archives. Unlike BEE-L, the list is only sent out in digest form every few days. Visit http://www.talisman.com/mead/meadfaq.html and www.talisman.com/mead for more info. I last subscribed in 1994, and found it very good then. I am sure there is a lot of good info in their archives by now. The archives are supposedly available for anonymous FTP at ftp.stanford.edu in pub/clubs/homebrew/mead/, however I was unable to log onto that site by anonymous FTP -- or any other method -- tonight. They are also available on the Web. Current issues are at http://www.talisman.com/mead/curyr/index.html. Zipped historical issues back to 1992 are at http://www.talisman.com/mead/zipper/index.html. The zipped annual archives run up to 1/2 meg in size, and contain each and every digest for a given year. FWIW, my personal mead recipe is at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/Diary031500.htm under the heading "Sunday March 26th, 2000" or you can search the page using Control + f in your browser. allen -- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Package installation, performance experiments, winter loss, fondant feeding, Pierco vs. Permadent vs. dark comb, unwrapping, splitting tricks, queen cells, AFB, varroa, protein patties, daily mumblings and more... Thousands served... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 09:06:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: Reuters | New Breed of Bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very interesting story but leaves me to wonder. If the Frence bees are resistant, Why crossbreed them? Why not keep them as they are, spread them to beekeepers across the country, and as they swarm, repopulated the feral colonies? Richard ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 09:57:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Stevens Subject: rE OVERWINTERED NUCS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The styrofoam nucs that johanesson saw in Canada are those of Dave Tegart. We started selling them this year and have sold quite a few of them. We haven't had any experience with them bringing nucs through the winter in upstate NY but will try about 50 this winter. Rich Biehn brought several back from Apimondia and wintered nucs in them on Long Island which is about 10 degrees warmer than upstate NY. When we first put them in the catalogue, I called Dave and asked him about the thing most people on the net seem concerned about - moisture condensation. These Nucs are very tight, and I could not see how the moisture was getting out. They only have a 3/4 inch hole for an entrance. Dave feeds his 2000 nucs through this hole in an hour or two with a hose. Yes, the syrup just sits in the bottom of the box and the bees don't drown! Well, his response to the moisture question was this. "As long as there is not too much honey in the nuc, you will not have any moisture problems." He feeds twice during the winter and then gives them a frame of last years pollen in March as there is no pollen coming in in British Columbia in March. How much is too much honey - I'm sure only Dave knows and found out by trial and error for his particular winter situation. Remember he is making up these nucs in the fall from summer hives. He can put as many bees and as much honey as he wants in each hive. That is a little different from the way we are doing it - making nucs from 2 frame splits in late July. I am very concerned that we will have enough bees to make it through and might shake some extras in during October. I do not know whether to feed these nucs now - they definitely could use it to get more bees in there, but I have Dave's remonstration in the back of my mind and do not want to get "too much honey" in there. I guess the conclusion is that as with any new beekeeping management technique or device, it will take us awhile to adapt it to our local environment. It sure is fun to try new stuff, however, and if it develops into a viable management technique that helps us compete with the third world beekeeper, it sure will make our trip to Apimondia worthwhile. Bob Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 22:06:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Riach Subject: Wing Beat Frequency MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Using musical note frequencies reminds me of a trick used by an old gear design engineer I knew. When we were having problems with a noisy gearbox he would call for the engineering blueprints, ask for the gearbox to be run up to speed and then produce an old harmonica from his pocket and start playing up and down the scales until he got a note which matched the offending noise. He'd then check the speed, consult the blueprints to find the numbers of teeth on the various gearwheels and point to a gear on the drawing and say "that one's the problem gentlemen" - he was invariably right. Of course we younsters could achieve the same thing given half a day and £10 000 worth of electronic analysis equipment. So get out your harmonicas and harmonise with them wing beats. Alan Riach Bathgate ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 14:05:42 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-7?B?zenq/Ovh7/IgzOHx3+3n8g==?= Subject: FW: "Wasp Elimination" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Original Message----- From: Νικόλαος Μαρίνης [mailto:nmarinis@olav.gr] Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2000 12:59 PM To: L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d) Cc: Νικόλαος Μαρίνης Subject: "Wasp Elimination" Dear Beekeepers, I want to eliminate the wasps that are in the apiary eating to many flying bees as well as destroying frames. I have tried many methods , myself and my known beekeepers, without significant positive results. Looking forward to hearing from you, that something better exists. Nikos Marinis Athens - Greece ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 10:03:12 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nathalie Lautier Subject: Re: Wing Beat Frequency In-Reply-To: <200008130307.XAA03855@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks a lot for all your informations on the wing beat frequency of bees. You sent all of you exactly the number i needed. And even much more. I learned a lot Thanks Nathalie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 08:13:29 +0100 Reply-To: Steven Turner Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steven Turner Organization: Beenet UK Host Subject: The National Honey Show Lecture Convention and Programme November 2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The National Honey Show Lecture Convention and Programme for the Millennium Show with International Classes. Only 94 day's before the show! 16th, 17th & 18th November 2000 Kensington Town Hall London, England. The show is sponsored by The Worshipful Company of Wax Chandlers PROGRAMME OF EVENTS SCHEDULE THURSDAY 16th NOVEMBER (admission for 2.00 pm Opening Ceremony DR DAVID BELLAMY OBE, PhD, FLS, FIBiol Botanist, Writer and Broadcaster SATURDAY 18th NOVEMBER 4.00 pm presentation of Cups and Trophies Mrs Jean Purcell NHS Patron and former Vice Chairman. Opening Ceremony 1.45 pm) Friday 17th November 9.30 am - 7.00 pm Saturday 18th November 9.30 am - 5.00 pm ADMISSION: Adults £6.00 Children 16 and under 50p Members free LECTURE CONVENTION and Programme THURDAY 16th NOVEMBER 1.45 Doors open 2.00 Opening Ceremony 3.00 "New Beekeeping in the Deep Long Hive" Robin Dartington 4.30 "Beekeeping in Trinidad & Tobago, Challenges and Opportunities" Gladstone Solomon 7.00 Show closes FRIDAY 17th NOVEMBER 9.30 Show opens 10.30 "Ramblings through Beekeeping" Michael Badger 11.45 "The Role of Apimiondia" Asger Jorgensen 3.00 "The Essence of Culture" Prof Robert Pickard 4.15 "Varroa Control using Fungi" Katie Shaw 5.30 'Trees and Bees" Geoffrey Hopkinson 7.0 Exhibition closes SATURDAY 18th NOVEMBER 9.30 Show opens 10.30 "Bees Houses" David Bates 11.45 "Development of Beekeeping in Africa" Asger Jorgensen 1.15 "Bee Research at Sheffield University" Dr Francis Ratnieks 2.30 National Honey Show Annual General Meeting followed by the Annual Meeting of the National Council 4.00 Presentation of trophies and Awards followed by the Draw. 5.00 Show closes 5.30 Collect Exhibits The Show gratefully acknowledges that The Worshipful Company of Wax Chandlers, the BBKA and numerous other donors who have assisted with the funding of this Lecture Convention. Please publish this information world wide, French & German versions of this programme available on the National Honey Show Web Site URL: http://www.honeyshow.co.uk Full Schedule and entry form also available online & see the reviews of the 1999 show. ... When you go in search of honey you must expect to be stung by bees. Steven Turner st@zbee.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 10:23:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: Wing Beat Frequency MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When you open a queenless hive it will sometimes create a buzz almost to a roar. Twice the normal sound of a hive. The hive maybe with stress of mites and or beetles. This hive will be aggressive. The use of grapefruit or lemon leaves used in the smoker is to reduce the mites or make them drop off. This has a d-limniesse in the leaves, used for flea relief also, that is used for the catalyst in enamel paints. It holds the clay and oils in mixture status. When used in the hive it should have an effect on the wings to elminate the star chattering of the wings. This might estend the useful life of the gathering bees. Has anyone done any research with d-limninesse? If used it would soften the wings and reduce the cycles per second tones. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 15:45:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lucinda Sewell Subject: Beeginners mead recipe Comments: To: Sandy Elliott , Beehealthy@aol.com, RASpiek@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geetings to all Thanks to all replies re Alcohol Conversion. You've made sure I'll measure the SG this year at the start! I've had several requests for 'my' mead recipe...guess my enthusiasm shows and I think a lot of people really want the lowest common denominator of simplicity...Eva Crane has written "A Book of Honey" ISBN 0 19 217657 9 Oxford University Press. The section on alcoholic drinks states that exact instructions don't survive from early times but she does give general guidelines that have. So after reading her instructions, and those of Brother Adam, and putting the books away (my personal study technique) I washed all my cappings and crushed wild comb in a demi johns worth of bought spring water ( no way am I drinking Thames valley rainwater!). I then added honey until the mixture just floated a newly laid egg with a bit showing. This lovely smelling mixture was brought to the boil. This year I'll filter out the pollen. I added some yeast from our fridge (normal baking yeast) when it had cooled enough, almost filled my clean demi john and put a loose 'cork' of cotton wool in. It fermented heavily in our boiler cupboard for about a month. I put a fermentation air lock instead of the cotton wool at about 2 months, at which stage the mixture tasted vile. At about 9months I put the demijohn outside, and some solids settled. I siphoned the murky, woody tasting liquid off the sediment corked it and shoved it in the cupboard under the sink, wondering if that was how those romantic medieval types had drunk it. Yuk! Looking for a few extra jars under my sink I found a Demi john of crystal clear dry sparkling mead, with a sediment at the bottom. I siphoned it off again and the 'accidental' mouthfuls my wife and myself tasted prompted the question to the list re alcohol content. In case we drink it all in one sitting. Re- reading Prof. Eva Crane sort of makes me wonder about a crash course in chemistry. There's an awful lot of different sugars in honey...and it appears most of them ferment! I'm sorry moderators and you old hands who've grown bored with these things we newbees find so miraculous. I'm sure there are twenty better, more precise recipes in this list's archive and numerous hours of study on the mead list. Apologies to those of you who got dashed off personal replies too! Thanks John Sewell (Got 10 hives, want 1000. Mongrel bees, 2yrs cumulative stings. Reading England. Use drugs to save bees...but hate 'em.Trying to be a non-smoker) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 11:25:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: Wing Beat Frequency MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use Red Headed Golden Italian queen from California with the blue fingernail polish and a little dot of luminating (in black light) nail polish in the center. The first six weeks one doesn't need glasses to find the queen. These are used in the educational year around observation hives at the Orlando Science Center and Seminole County Learning Center in Florida. After the six weeks and the queen has the bees to her off spring it is a little harder but still easy to locate her. The black light will show the pollin on the gathering workers body with a glow that will separate the nurse bees which don't glow. Haven't gotten any pictures but will. I wonder if the dance might show a glowing of the pollin? Any Black light study information? I really don't want to want to sign off each time with the Glow in the Dark, Red Headed Golden Italian with blue fingernail polish Queen form California. If I could get her to toot on command we would have a movie star to sing with the wing chime players. Michael Housel Caretaker for an All Female Vegetarian Virgin Army of millions. Single and looking, please send picture -- of bees. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 11:54:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: [FloridaBeekeepers] USDA to up tolarance levels In-Reply-To: <8n6iiu+kgpu@eGroups.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Taken from the Flordia Beekeepers egroup. ---------- From: "tomas mozer" Reply-To: FloridaBeekeepers@egroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 16:32:30 -0000 To: FloridaBeekeepers@egroups.com Subject: [FloridaBeekeepers] Re: Digest Number 82 at the eas meeting last week, j.baxter of usda/weslaco(tx) beelab announced that tolerance levels would be set at 100ppb in honey and 100ppm in wax, more than double the levels found under worst-case scenarios in studies...restrictions on use in comb-honey production to be lifted but the 2-week post-treatment lag remains in place... however, (if) these residues are cumulative, especially in broodcomb/ beeswax, dose/frequency of treatment could affect development of coumaphos-resistant mites (already reported in europe?)...another study to be presented at the abrc was to report preliminary results showing use of coumaphos in queen-rearing operations resulted in smaller/lighter queens...yet another presentatin on the use of household products to control beetle larva indicated that bleach and detergent solutions sprayed on comb were effective (no field test or residue check but bees in lab were working comb 24-48hrs. later), whereas water (control)and vinegar solution actually stimulated larval activity! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 13:08:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Swanky Subject: Re: Another beginner question Perhaps the size of the comb in which the worker bees are raised isn't quite the right issue. The issue would seem to be the maximum spacing which will still prevent any queen from passing through, rather than the right spacing for allowing workers to pass through. Whatever the size of the worker brood comb, queens are raised in different sized cells. While queens from different breeds probably vary in average size, the smallest may still be prevented from going through an excluder which will allow the largest workers passage. In which case we only need one size excluder on the market. Tom Swanky tswanky@goldcity.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 12:43:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kfm@MAIL.IPINC.NET Subject: What do do with unfinished comb? I have a question regarding what should be done with comb that is only partially filled. Now is the time to treat for Varroa where I live, so I am taking the honey supers off. The problem is that there are a number of frames that are 90% uncapped honey or pollen. What should I do with these? Can they be stored over the winter? I started with two packages this year and my plan is to use any surplus honey to add to splits next spring. Thanks, --Chris P.S. Thanks to those that helped me re: Using a nuc to requeen a hive with queen cells. Everything worked out great. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:15:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew Dubas Subject: Ant farms and beekeeprs...what is the link Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A beekeeper here in montgomery county PA was at a local fair and posed a survey/question to all beekeepers he comes in contact with " what was your interest before bees ? " and he said that every beekeeper he has talked to all had ant farms. The ironic thing is.... I had an antfarm too. So I am posing this question to all on bee-L... I thought it was interesting. Looking forward to the feedback Andrew Dubas Du-Bees Apiaries ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 23:15:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Richard A. Trevino, Jr." Subject: City Proclamation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our city will be issuing a proclamation to our association to celebrate "September Honey Month". However, we need to write the proclamation. Does anyone have one that we could adapt? Richard Trevino ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 00:10:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vivian Donahue Subject: fat-free label? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Well, I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that in response to the proliferation of "fat free" claims being made a few years ago, the FDA made the ruling a couple years ago, that in order to make a claim of "fat free" the product has to normally have had fat in it. In response some of the products now say things like "No fat, never had it, never will"..... Never underestimate the sneakiness of Madison Ave...... Vivian At 1:08 PM +1200 8/12/00, Robert Mann wrote: > > In response to the interesting suggestion that it might pay to >label honey 'fat-free', > > That may be correct, but does it follow that an assertion of >chemical fact, the simple statement 'fat-free', must be legally counted as >a health claim? > If the label said not only 'fat-free' but also some claim such as >'and will therefore decrease your chances of a heart attack', then I'd >expect officialdom to clamp down . . . ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 07:56:09 -0700 Reply-To: beekeeper82@yahoo.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carm Subject: Re: fat-free label? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, I have seen 'fat-free' on the honey at the local grocery store here in Ontario Canada. It was packaged by Billy Bee Honey from Toronto I believe. Perhaps someone could contact them and find out how they are able to do this... There web page address in www.billybee.com If I find out more I will write it to the list... Bee busy, Carm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 20:08:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Another beginner question In-Reply-To: <200008131710.NAA11494@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Perhaps the size of the comb in which the worker bees are raised isn't > quite the right issue. The issue would seem to be the maximum spacing which > will still prevent any queen from passing through, rather than the right > spacing for allowing workers to pass through. Thanks. This is a more accurate statement of the problem. Perhaps an even more useful one would consider probabilities, rather than specifying 'any queen'. Most designs involve trade-offs, and excluder design is no exception. There are a lot of questions to consider. > Whatever the size of the worker brood comb, queens are raised in different > sized cells. While queens from different breeds probably vary in average > size, the smallest may still be prevented from going through an excluder > which will allow the largest workers passage. In which case we only need > one size excluder on the market. Would we be happy with an excluder that let one or two percent of the queens through if they also offered *much* less resistance to the worker bees? Do queens of various sources and strains vary in the dimension that is critical to excluder function as much as the worker bees do? For one thing, the queens of bees raised with larger cell foundation should not be any bigger, since as you pointed out, they are raised in queen cells built by the bees, not worker comb. Is an excluder that offers freest possible passage to the biggest bees in use restrain the queens of other popular strains? Can we determine how much restriction an excluder is causing for a given group of bees? I recall seeing on this list recently a post in which a member described watching queens run -- I think that was the word -- through an excluder. What is going on? Since my original post, I have been informed that in countries where other bees than mellifera are used, excluders suited to the bee in question are available. I think I have talked about a possible similarity with cows and other livestock here before and pointed out that although livestock are often physically capable of going through most fences, most just don't bother -- even when on the point of starvation and in sight of good pasture. That notwithstanding, most farmers are familiar with 'fence crawlers', individual critters that overcome whatever reluctance restrains the others and go through, over or under fences at will. I'd sure like to know if any scientific work has been done on how the bees (learn to) go through an excluder and why (usually) queens won't. Is it physically impossible? Is it merely uncomfortable? Is it possible, but unattractive to do? allen --- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Package installation, experiments, winter loss, fondant, Pierco vs. Permadent vs. dark comb, unwrapping, splitting tricks, queen cells, AFB, varroa, protein patties, moving bees, daily mumblings and more... Thousands served... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:58:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Churchill Subject: Re: Hive stands In-Reply-To: <200008101113.HAA13027@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:15 AM 8/10/00 -0400, you wrote: >Can anyone tell me where I might buy hive stands, either portable or I'd recommend putting a couple of landscaping timbers propped up on cinder blocks (or perhaps the legs of your concrete benches). The 8' timbers are cheap yet strong/durable, and will hold two hives with space between to rest empty supers, hive tools/smoker etc. while working the hives. The space between the timbers will allow the mesh bottom board to do what it is supposed to. Use 3 sets of blocks to prevent sagging (one at each end and one in the middle). Place the hives near the outer ends to maximize work space between hives. IHTH. Mike Churchill Mike Churchill, Beginning Beekeeper | What's the buzz all about? mike.churchill@netmechanic.com http://www.netmechanic.com - Power Tools for Your Web Site Link and HTML testing, Server Reliability Testing, Image Size Reduction ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:11:32 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: Re: SUMITHRIN TOXICITY TO BEESl MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Dave Green wrote: > When the spraying is done at night, or at least after the > bees are done flying, there is no real hazard to the bees. > By morning the dew has broken down the non-residual > pesticide and it is no longer toxic. Three problems with these comments: Firstly not all agro-chemicals are broken down over an eight hour period. As a matter of fact most of them need a much longer period of time. This means that bees on flowers up to and including the residual toxicity period are at risk. Secondly the break-down period of eight hours is normally extended because of the moist and cool conditions of evening: to our knowledge dew does not assist in the break-down of these substances - why spray with water as a carrier in that case?. This implies that even an eight hour residual does not insure reduced bee death risk. Thirdly many agro-chemicals (or cocktails thereof) contain substances that induce a repellency action. This was discovered in a plum orchard in Robertson near Cape Town where not one single insect was visible in the orchards even though 20 hives per hectare were placed. The problem was traced back to a spray application more than a week before the bees were brought in. This has been repeated and proved to be true on a number of occasions. The implication is obvious: no pollination, no commercial crop.. As Bee Industry Association, we propose to our grower member that a "window" of at least 48 hours is maintained totally spray fee before the bees are brought into orchards. As a matter of fact we also recommend that orchards are to remain totally chemical free for the duration of the pollination period. A natural orchard is a happy and stress free orchard for the bees. I believe European law disallows any spraying on open flower ... something we dream of. "Do you have flowers on your tobacco?" I asked him. "Of course not, only poor farmers leave the blossoms." "If there are no flowers, bees will not be present in the field. Go ahead. There is no problem." He was relieved. Again, sorry Dave, I would like to express a reservation here, that applies to us. Perhaps not where you are. We often have, here in Cape Town, windy periods during the pollination period. Spraying sometimes has to be done on orchards adjacent to ones in which bees are working. Spray drifting happens. This is when spray from adjacent (non flowering) orchards blows across to the target orchards' flowers. This kills bees. Spray drifting seems to be increased in the case of micro encapsulated products: we believe that a static charge build up on the nylon material as it leaves the nozzle. This causes mutual repellency, sending the capsules high up into the wind. Bee and bird deaths have been noted 6 km further (not proven). Robert Post ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:17:58 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: Re: beekeeping in the dark MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit "Lipscomb, Al" wrote: > Has anyone seen a bee jump? I could have sworn in one case that they were > jumping, that is no wing movement, from the hive towards me. More so than crawling anyway! Beekeepers in SA's summer rainfall area (yep, African Honeybees) normally work at night time. Even in remote areas this is the norm. Many obvious reasons for this! Two overalls, boots and closed veils. Many reasons for this too! Robert Post ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:18:32 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: Re: beekeeping in the dark MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit "David L. Green" wrote: Once in awhile as you pick up the hive, the bottom board drops onto your feet. Boy, I HATE IT WHEN THAT HAPPENS! Don't we all. We have overcome that problem in a very cheap and effective way by using - called here - black hand strapping. This is a 12 mm wide plastic or woven nylon strap that is tied - no tools needed - with metal looped buckles. This packing material is often used to bundle together a variety of products in industry and is very cheap (12.8 US cents per hive). Two straps are used per hive to tie hive, floor, super and lid. Even in severe UV conditions these will last for a year. Even with hives falling off the third tier, they don't come adrift ... often. Robert Post ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 20:34:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Becky boehm Subject: Re: What do do with unfinished comb? Chris asked what to do with unfinished comb? first, pop it into the freezer till after mite treatment is done, then give it back to the bees. They know how to take care of it best. or, leave it in the freezer for your splits next spring, I suggest that you put the whole super in a plastic garbage bag then put in freezer. or , extract it seperatly and use it first in your household --- you can even freeze it in jars to prevent fermentation. hope this helps Al Boehm Columbus NC ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 18:51:01 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Cherubini Subject: Re: SUMITHRIN TOXICITY TO BEESl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Dave Green wrote: > > > When the spraying is done at night, or at least after the > > bees are done flying, there is no real hazard to the bees. > > > By morning the dew has broken down the non-residual > > pesticide and it is no longer toxic. > Robert Post responded: > Three problems with these comments: > > Firstly not all agro-chemicals are broken down over an eight hour periodk. > > Secondly the break-down period of eight hours is normally extended because of the > moist and cool conditions of evening. > > Thirdly many agro-chemicals (or cocktails thereof) contain substances that induce > a repellency action. Robert, Dave Green was talking about the impact of Sumithrin insecticide when sprayed for mosquito control. In my opinion, the scientific literature on mosquito spraying supports Dave's comments for the following reasons: a) Sumithrin, like resmethrin, is one of the 30 year old, first generation pyrethroids that has virtually no residual activity or lasting repellency effect when applied outdoors. b) The dosage of sumithrin or resmethrin used for mosquito spraying is extremely small (around 1 ounce per acre = 5 gallons per square mile). This further reduces the chances of any residual or repellency effects interfering with bee activity. c) Petroleum or vegetable oil (not water) is used as a carrier when applying mosquito adulticides like sumithrin & resmethrin, in part, because they would more rapidly break down if mixed with water. d) Like Dave says, because the mosquito spraying is done at dusk or at night, when the bees are not flying, there is no real hazard to the bees. Paul Cherubini ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jan 1980 21:13:23 -0600 Reply-To: cspacek@ev1.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: curtis spacek Subject: wax moth traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit just a reminder it's time to search the archives for the wax moth trap recipe.