From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 07:40:06 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05023 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:40:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00153 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:43:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141243.HAA00153@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:42:58 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0008C" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 74051 Lines: 1624 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 06:31:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: SUMITHRIN TOXICITY TO BEESl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/14/00 9:33:53 PM, cherubini@MINDSPRING.COM writes: << Like Dave says, because the mosquito spraying is done at dusk or at night, when the bees are not flying, there is no real hazard to the bees. >> Define "dusk" and how long does it last to allow applicators to spray over a designated area? Does dusk start at 5 p.m., 6 p.m.? During the summer, bees may forage until 7 p.m., or even later. My dictionary says it's "the darker part of twilight esp. at night." Do the contractors use the same definition? How long is dusk? Do applicators have so much ground to cover that they start at 5 p.m. to be finished by nightfall? "Dusk" is too close to the time when bees are still flying, at least to account for human error, bureaucracy, budget constraints, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:43:33 +0200 Reply-To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: download of hivenote software suspended. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry intensiv bugfixing is taking place and there fore I have canceled download og Bidata and the Bidata for handheld until the software is bugfree. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 05:22:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Wow, A Great New Way to Read BEE-L Comments: cc: "sci.ag.bee" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been subscribed to BEE-L for over 6 years now and here is something I did not know about the way BEE-L can be delivered to you: There is a subscription option called "INDEX". It is even better than "DIGEST" if you don't want your mailbox full of email, and don't mind being online while you read the list. Simply go to http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BEE-L/ , choose the "How do I join BEE-L" link and set your subscription to "INDEX". INDEX is available in HTML or text (traditional). I recommend HTML. If you subscribe to INDEX, you'll get a daily page by email which lists the post for the last 24 hours and gives a clickable link to each, plus a "Browse the BEE-L online archives" link. when reading any thread, you can go backwards and forwards in the thread. Try it, you'll like it. I'll keep my traditional "Regular" (text) delivery, but some of you may like this method of delivery. While you are at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BEE-L/ , please be sure to brush up on our guidelines and other info there. allen --- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Package installation, experiments, winter loss, fondant, Pierco vs. Permadent vs. dark comb, unwrapping, splitting tricks, queen cells, AFB, varroa, protein patties, moving bees, daily mumblings and more... Thousands served... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 07:46:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: SUMITHRIN TOXICITY TO BEESl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave is right in his comments on spraying at night or late evening as being fairly safe to bees. The reason is that, as he says, most sprayed insecticides have a half life such that they will be fairly, but not completely, benign the next day. Also, since they are sprayed, their primary kill mechanism is contact. Bees gathering nectar will be minimally affected the next day as they will have little contact with what is left of the insecticide. The same for hives sprayed during the day. Foraging bees will be killed but the hive bees will be relatively safe, depending on the spray. But, if powder, and even worse encapsulated powder, is used, then it does not matter when the insecticide is applied. You will have bee kill. The reason is the bees do not die in the field but bring the encapsulated powder back to the hive as if it were pollen. Then the colony either dies or comes close to it. Sevin is often applied by backyard gardeners as a powder and is an efficient bee killer. But mix it with water and spray it and it loses most of its wallop since it sticks to leaves and is not easily, if at all, picked up by the bees. I like to keep my neighbors informed about Sevin and how it affects bees. I do not tell them not to use it, only how to use it, especially since I use it myself to combat cucumber beetles. I would be careful on imposing too stringent requirements on a grower. We ask them to read the label. So should we. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 08:11:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: EPA Sets Tolerance Levels for Coumaphos Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit NEWS RELEASE From: American Beekeeping Federation P.O. Box 1038 - Jesup, GA 31598 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE August 8, 2000 Contact: Troy Fore - 912-427-4233 email: troyfore@ABFnet.org EPA Sets Tolerance Levels for Coumaphos In some exciting and important news for the U.S. honey industry, the Environmental Protection Agency has agreed to establish tolerances for coumaphos in honey and beeswax. The establishment of the tolerances will allow the sale of honey which has picked up minute amounts of coumaphos from the use of Bayer's Check-Mite+ strips, used to combat varroa mites and small hive beetles. Also, it will be permissible to sell comb honey from hives treated with Check-Mite. The tolerances are 0.1 ppm for honey (one tenth part per million; same as 100 parts per billion) for honey. Recognizing that the chemical concentrates in beeswax, EPA is setting that tolerance at 100 ppm. The determination of the tolerances was approved by EPA an Aug. 2. Notification of the new tolerances was scheduled for publication on the Federal Register during the following week. For the tolerances to be effective in a given state, that state's Section 18 permit for the use of Check-Mite must be amended by the EPA, a process which will take 7-10 days. "This is an important break-through for our industry," said ABF President Clint Walker. "The need for these tolerances cannot be overstated. We have been continually working with EPA, telling them our needs and our concerns. >From the ABF convention in Fort Worth, we supplied EPA with documentation on the importance of Check-Mite to our beekeepers and the importance of our beekeepers to the rest of agriculture. This is a story we must continue to tell." EPA established the tolerance for coumaphos, an organophosphate, despite its general refusal to add further food uses while assessing all organophosphates. Some other industries have been refused new food uses for OPs pending the overall review. In deciding to grant the tolerances for honey and beeswax, EPA recognized three factors: - The need for Check-Mite to control fluvalinate-resistant varroa is a nationwide problem, and the problem with small hive beetles is spreading. No alternative chemicals are available. - Honey bees provide a $14.6 billion benefit to agriculture. This was identified as the overriding factor in granting the tolerances. - The addition of the tolerances for honey and beeswax adds negligible risk to the consumer. In comparison the tolerance for coumaphos in other foods - all of which are consumed in far greater volumes than honey - are: 1 ppm in meat; 0.5 ppm in milk-fat; and 0.1 ppm in eggs. The need for the tolerance was brought to the attention of Bayer and EPA by Sioux Honey, which had found coumaphos residues in honey from hives treated with Check-Mite strips. Those residues were on the order of 10-15 parts per billion. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 08:54:44 -0400 Reply-To: beeman@kingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kent stienburg Subject: screened bottom board MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I searched the Bee-L archives but wasn't able to find the dimension of the screen. Would anyone know? I'm guessing 1/8"??? Thanks Kent Stienburg ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:56:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "BOGANSKY,RONALD J." Subject: Excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I am one of those beekeepers that believes in benefits of excluders, but never quite got the hang of using them. Some may argue, but I think there is an art to using them and I have not figured it out. I have tried them many times in the past. Some colonies went through them as if they were not there, others treated them as a brick wall. In the later case they would store honey in the brood chamber and end up swarming. I still use some every year, but usually for management reasons, (two queens, etc.). A number of years ago I read an article by Roger Morse on their use. He recommended using them 3 to 4 weeks prior to honey removal. The idea being any brood in the honey supers will hatch and not be there during harvesting. You are, however, still left with brood stained frames. These are the primary targets for the wax moth during storage. Basically I don't think it is worth the effort. I did use a modified version of this during mid summer I would chase the queen down to the bottom brood chamber and place an excluder over her. The brood in the upper chamber would hatch and the bees would begin to store honey. This ensured ample winter stores. I no longer do this because of mite treatment. I take the honey off in mid summer and they store the fall flow as winter stores. I also read an article a number of years ago where a beekeeper used a modified inner cover as a queen excluder. I have not tried it, but it seemed like it may work. You basically take an inner cover and close the existing hole in the center and drill a number of 1/2 inch holes around the outer edge. The workers will pass through without problem but the queen who "usually" is in the center will not. The article went on to state that this was a good way to store supers. After extraction empty supers can be placed above this board and the bees will clean them out. Then in the spring if a colony is expanding rapidly there is room for them to grow. (Allen has mentioned in few posts of giving them extra space that they will use but not on a regular basis.) The folks at Betterbee recommend using an excluder sideways giving the workers a few inches of un restricted space. I have not tried doing either yet they make sense. However I believe that for a queen to stay in one place we need to give her what she wants; empty comb. IMHO that includes drone comb. I have had (what I believe happened) a queen cross two supers of full/capped honey and lay eggs in drone cells on burr comb. She was not interested in the worker cells only drone. As a side note, if there is sufficient drone comb available, I also noticed that repairs to damaged comb, which usually results in drone comb, are repaired using worker cells. There are probably a number of factors that influence this but it seems to be when we give the bees what they need rather than what we think they need, they will do better. I still wish I could use excluders effectively. Ron Bogansky Kutztown, PA + ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:23:32 -0400 Reply-To: beeman@kingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kent stienburg Subject: screen size MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, 1/8" it is. I found some at a hardware store. But not Home Depot. Kent ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:42:43 -0500 Reply-To: Fr-Athanasios Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Fr-Athanasios Subject: Forage plants Greetings to all, I am planing to plant some forage plants for my bees in the very near future. Can someone recommend what would be best to plant for a long term bee forage here in the central Wisconsin? Thank you for your responses, + Fr. Athanasios ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:01:54 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Drone comb In-Reply-To: <200008151708.NAA24310@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, BOGANSKY,RONALD J. wrote: However I believe that > for a queen to stay in one place we need to give her what she wants; empty > comb. IMHO that includes drone comb. I have had (what I believe happened) > a queen cross two supers of full/capped honey and lay eggs in drone cells on > burr comb. She was not interested in the worker cells only drone. As a > side note, if there is sufficient drone comb available, I also noticed that > repairs to damaged comb, which usually results in drone comb, are repaired > using worker cells. I am sure that there is some balance of drone comb and worker comb that colonies try to maintain. When drawing out new with equal strength colonies some will draw lovely even combs and others will insist on drawing drone comb sideways between the sheets of worker comb foundation. It would be interesting to try an experiment to see if providing a frame of drone comb would eliminate this urge to build drone comb. (It may be a shortage of drones rather than a shortage of drone comb which causes this behavior) Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 16:50:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Amee Abel Subject: Re: Dee Lusbys research MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Dee & Ed now have got hundreds of hives on 4.9mm foundation. Where can I get foundation with 4.9mm cells? > Food for thought: > at 4.6mm worker cell size varroa can't reproduce in cells. > At 4.7mm worker cell size only one mite can possibly reproduce. Certainly seems worth a try. I hate the idea of poisoning my honey with Apistan. Also--does it make any sense to treat only one hive in a bee yard? Knowing that the bees drift, it seems that if one hive has a significant infestation, that all hives in the yard would need to be treated at the same time. Right? --Amee Abel's Apiaries "Happy Hive Making Wholesome Honey" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:16:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Verville Subject: Honey Yeilds in New England MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To those in the New England area that have removed their honey, how is = the yield compared to previous years? As you know the summer has been mostly cool and wet. I haven't pulled mine just yet but can tell that the stacks are not as high as previous years. Dave ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:32:24 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HarrisonRW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Honey Yeilds in New England MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know about anyone else in CT but for me along the coast here in southwestern CT my honey yield is just about average or a little below. Last year we had a hot drought all summer (only mowed my grass four times all summer) and this year it was just the opposite (cool and wet). Regards, Ralph Harrison Western CT Beekeepers Association Milford, CT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:57:14 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Honey Yeilds in New England MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Southeast CT USA and a lot of rain and wet. Rained the whole sumac bloom. Hoping all the rain makes a good flow for the bees to winter on. Less honey than last year maybe half. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:18:16 -0700 Reply-To: dadant@dadant.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dadant & Sons Organization: Dadant & Sons, Inc Subject: Re: City Proclamation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard A. Trevino, Jr. wrote: > > Our city will be issuing a proclamation to our association to celebrate > "September Honey Month". However, we need to write the proclamation. Does > anyone have one that we could adapt? > > Richard Trevino The National Honey Board has this information. You can contact them at 800-553-7162 or www.nhb.org. Regards, Dadants ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 02:19:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HStarJE@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Drone comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe this is another good reason to keep a medium frame into a brood deep. You can cut out the mites, give them a little space to build some comb and ease swarming instinct and keep them happy. Bees always seem happier when there are drones. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 01:24:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "W. Allen Dick" Subject: Re: Dee Lusbys research >> Dee & Ed now have got hundreds of hives on 4.9mm foundation. > >Where can I get foundation with 4.9mm cells? I am sure that Lusbys would be glad to point you in the right direction. For those who may not know, Barry has quite a bit of information including original articles by Dee at his site http://www.beesource.com . Check under 'Point of View'. In case you have not been there, the site is very much worth a visit for many reasons other than the cell size question. In my personal opinion -- and I spent several whole days reading, figuring and trying hard to understand it -- the whole idea of 4.9 cell size seems to me to be based on a simple misunderstanding of bee literature. That is not to say the idea does not have merit whether it is based on a misunderstanding or not. I simply do not know. I think it is a very interesting idea and look forward to see where it winds up. I don't know about the bees that Lusbys raise, but most of the commercial honey bees I have been able to learn about from other beekeepers and obtain seem more comfortable in larger cells. Cells in the 5.2 to 5.3 mm range seem to be what they like to build if there are no people around to force them onto overly large or small foundation cells. I understand though that 4.9 is a natural cell size for AHB, so I wonder what size of foundation is used in Africa where the bee originated. Anyone interested in measuring cells or examining the results of requests for responses can go to Barry's site (above) or http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Misc/CellCount.htm I have discussed my thoughts on the matter in my diary as well. allen --- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Package bees, winter loss, fondant, Pierco vs. Permadent vs. dark comb, unwrapping, splitting, raising queens, AFB, varroa, protein patties, moving bees, pollination experiences, daily mumblings and more... Thousands served... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:21:11 +0200 Reply-To: olda.vancata@quicknet.se Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: olda@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Re: Dee Lusbys research In-Reply-To: <11151819985759@mail.mail.quicknet.se> > >> Dee & Ed now have got hundreds of hives on 4.9mm foundation. > In my personal opinion -- and I spent several whole days reading, figuring > and trying hard to understand it -- the whole idea of 4.9 cell size seems > to me to be based on a simple misunderstanding of bee literature. I just wonder about following: varroa is originating from A. cerana. A.cerana is much smaller than A. mellifera which means that A.cerana's cells must be much smaller than A. mellifera's. In spite of that varroa can live in cerana's cells... \vov ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:21:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: Drone comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When useing plasticel the drone cells can be controlled easily by cutting an angle cut in the corners about 2 inches. This 45 degree cut frame needs to be marked on the top of the frame in the brood area's edge. You can use hive tool to remove the drone cells. If the bees doesn't refill it they will use it as a walk way. The queen will have greater movement to the next frame. Mite and swarm controls helps. Michael Housel. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:15:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Dee Lusbys research MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > A.cerana is much smaller than A. mellifera which means that > A.cerana's cells must be much smaller than A. mellifera's. In > spite of that varroa can live in cerana's cells... In all this discussion of smaller cell size I have wondered if it the RATIO of extra to occupied space (E:O) that may be the influence. Apis cerena certainly has a smaller cell size, but it could perhaps have the same E:O as does the larger Apis meliffera. As cell size decreases, assuming the larva/pupa size remains the same, then the E:O also decreases. Perhaps it is the reduced E:O that negatively impacts Varroa. Perhaps the Varroa simply has not enough room to move to be as successful as it would be in a more spacious cell. Aaron Morris - thinking don't fence me in! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:13:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rob Close Subject: Cap processing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am looking at some kind of capping processing equipment for a 50 hive operation. My goal is to do all of the processing in one day, and to maximize the honey collected. I am less concerned about the wax. I am currently uncapping with an uncapping knife. Drip tanks are too slow. I have looked at melters and don't like them (among other things, heats honey too much/long). Do you know how spinners, spin floats, wax presses, or some other method compare? Especially at the smaller scale end for my small apiary. Thanks for any input, Rob. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:19:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: Re: Dee Lusbys research In-Reply-To: <200008161113.HAA16463@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > From: "W. Allen Dick" > I don't know about the bees that Lusbys raise, but most of the commercial > honey bees I have been able to learn about from other beekeepers and obtain > seem more comfortable in larger cells. Cells in the 5.2 to 5.3 mm range > seem to be what they like to build if there are no people around to force > them onto overly large or small foundation cells. Allen - I quote from the Lusby's own words. From: http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/part8.htm "Keep in mind, the idea is to figure out how many retrogressions it will take to bring the honeybees in a given area back to traditional natural sizing. Repeat the above mentioned process, with V-cut top bars on several domesticated hives and several well established feral colonies (not less than 10 each). We found the average here in Southern Arizona to be about 4 for our domesticated hives and 2 for established feral colonies. We found it impossible to make the retrogression back to natural sizing in one jump (This was our retrogression attempt to 5.0mm sizing). Two retrogressions would be required, but it became apparent that the time-frame would be a limiting factor, because we didn't have the time to retrogress our whole beekeeping outfit for each retrogression required (figured 10 years for each retrogression for changing 1,000 hives with foundation) for our domestic hives. We decided to see if we could speed the process up to match what we observed on the feral side. Consequently, we decided beekeepers cannot do an old-fashioned comb shake-down, from today's domesticated hives and restart on new undrawn 4.9mm foundation, to match the top-of-the-sizing-spectrum for traditional sizing before artficial hybridization by man, without modifying the technique to fit today's needs relative to stress by parasitic mites/secondary diseases, limited time-frame within which to work, and the different requirements for field management, between domestic and feral." 5.2 - 5.3 would be considered a first step regression in size according to the literature already published and contained in numerous archives. Bees have to be regressed in steps as they are limited by size variance between brood combs and honey combs that are found in each colony. Most beekeepers don't realize there are two cell size ranges in every colony. If the bees you are referring to appear to have had their first retrogression then you are only one jump down from controlling parasitic mites on 4.9, or there about, without getting your foundation so small you can't extract the honey out. When we have had a whole industry tool up for larger bees for 100 years, is it that unrealistic to think that it will take some effort to get the bees back down in size to whatever their natural size is? Simply stating that these bees you have learned about seem more comfortable in larger cells only gives us part of the picture/story of these bees. How many years have these bees been left to "build what they like" and how would they have regressed in size if still on the same comb? Has anyone tried regressing them further to see if they would like that? Lots of questions. As a side note, I also find quite interesting that in all the times this topic of small cell size has come up for discussion on BEE-L, there has never been any input by any researcher or scientist to aid in this topic. Why is that? Is the idea so off base that it's ludicrous? I know there have been studies on this from the US Gov. side. I have tried to read up and understand this whole topic and so far it has not thrown up a red flag as being folklore. In fact, it amazes me just how many people around the world have already, or are beginning to, keep bees on smaller cells. So why should North America with Canada and the USA be the last to change instead of lead? I get very frustrated by the politics of things. Can someone please show me the error of my thinking? Then there is the latest about the tolerance level of coumaphos in honey and wax being raised so we can keep producing honey that is "acceptable." We have now set a new precedence for the industry. We'll just keep raising the tolerance level up in our honey to fit the use of our stronger and stronger chemicals. Regards, Barry ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:34:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Processing cappings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rob asks about how to process cappings for a 50-hive operation. He says he doesn't like melters because they heat the honey too much. Look at the Kelley capping melter. This is truly ingenious, and has honey in contact with heat for only 2-3 minutes, and even then the heat is only 150 degrees. A wax press will do the job, but as far as I know only Kelley still makes one. Lot's of mess is the downside. Spinners and spin floats work fine, but I don't know of any that are small enough for a 50-hive operation. Hope this helps, Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:06:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Gov't newsgroup presence (was: Dee Lusby's research) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry Birkey wrote: > > As a side note, I also find quite interesting that in all the times this > topic of small cell size has come up for discussion on BEE-L, there has > never been any input by any researcher or scientist to aid in this topic. > Why is that? Is the idea so off base that it's ludicrous? I know there have > been studies on this from the US Gov. side. > > Regards, > Barry All : There have been and are studies at this lab regarding smaller comb size. The Lusby family is well known to us .... their business is operated from SE Tucson, and the Hayden Bee Research Center is in N Tucson. We have worked with lots of their hand-made foundation. I am not qualified to speak on the subject - you might correspond directly with Dr. Eric Erickson about comb size and mite resistance at eric@tucson.ars.ag.gov As to the reason why there is little to no input from researchers into newsgroups, I suggest you get a copy of the mailing list. As a USDA-ARS research technician, I seem to be the only visible gov't. presence on the two major internet newsgroups. This has puzzled me for the several years I have participated. Possibly one reason is that my situation (recovering from an auto wreck in 1995 and back surgery in 1999) has allowed me more computer time than the researchers who must publish to prove their jobs. My belief, sometimes founded on fact, is that many researchers believe that most internet newsgroup participants are hobbyists. I have looked into this, and do not believe it, but have had little success in pulling in more people. Possibly the younger researchers and those more comfortable with email will join in more readily, and experience the benefits of this large, diverse, intelligent, and generally well-informed conversational group. I have not been able to understand why the USDA-ARS bee labs are almost invisible in these groups. For those of you who have never heard, there are (still) USDA-Agricultural Research Service beelabs in Beltsville, MD, Baton Rouge, LA, Weslaco, TX, Tucson, AZ, and Logan, UT. My feeling is that we (the USDA) are in the information business - our research is useless unless it is shared continually with our customers, you. Just publishing in ABJ or Gleanings, etc. is no longer enough. As I near (early)retirement this year or next, my fear is that the "golden age" of USDA research has passed, along with the likes of Woodrow, Todd, McGregor, Levin, Barker, Waller, Moffett, and others, but my hope is that this period is just a realignment to the electronic age, and that others will join in. ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Agricultural Research Service - USDA Tucson, Arizona 85719 http://198.22.133.109/ http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/edwards.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 22:06:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Cap processing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been thinking of making some form of screen box to fit in an extractor and spin out the cappings. Am I reinventing the wheel? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 22:59:29 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Green Subject: Re: Processing cappings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit gravity works fine for me, wait, pour off the bottom in a few weeks. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 06:34:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Aerial spraying starts for West Nile MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aerial Spraying starts for West Nile NEW YORK (AP) - Health officials are escalating the battle against the West Nile virus with a one-two punch of ground spraying and the season's first aerial spraying. ``It behooves us to really knock down the mosquito population,'' city Health Commissioner Neal Cohen said, noting that last year, most of the seven victims who died were infected in August. ``The next two weeks up until Labor Day will certainly be very critical for transmission,'' Cohen said. After another round of ground spraying on Wednesday evening, the first aerial assault, with the pesticide Anvil, is scheduled for Thursday night on Staten Island and in the Canarsie section of Brooklyn. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 06:52:38 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Cap processing In-Reply-To: <200008170213.WAA07454@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have been thinking of making some form of screen box to fit in an > extractor and spin out the cappings. Am I reinventing the wheel? The idea works really well. I made some boxes about 16" x 20" and about 6" deep years ago when I was only running a few hundred hives. I used 3/4" pine with 8 mesh hardware cloth bottoms held on by 1/2 X 3/4" slats and had good success. I can't recall if I used several cross pieces under the bottoms for reinforcement or not, but that is likely a good idea. You need an even number of the boxes to balance one another in the extractor, of course. allen --- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Package bees, winter loss, fondant, Pierco vs. Permadent vs. dark comb, unwrapping, splitting, raising queens, AFB, varroa, protein patties, moving bees, pollination experiences, daily mumblings and more... Thousands served... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 07:12:19 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Mead-Lover's Digest In-Reply-To: <200008121327.JAA18477@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick Dunn, the self-styled 'janitor' of the Mead-Lover's Digest, but actually the driving force behind that list, mentioned to me that there is, indeed, a searchable archive for his list. It just happened to be out of service temporarily when I wrote here previously. It is now working again and it works well -- for list members and others alike -- at http://hubris.engin.umich.edu/Beer/Threads/Mead allen --- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ Package bees, winter loss, fondant, Pierco vs. Permadent vs. dark comb, unwrapping, splitting, raising queens, AFB, varroa, protein patties, moving bees, pollination experiences, daily mumblings and more... Thousands served... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:17:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Gov't newsgroup presence In-Reply-To: <200008170400.AAA10523@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:00 AM 8/17/00 -0400, you wrote: As to the reason why there is little to no input from researchers into newsgroups, ... I seem to be the only visible gov't. presence on the two major internet newsgroups. This has puzzled me for the several years .... I think this has to do mainly with the information overload that most of us are experiencing due to the internet, numerous publications available, etc. Also, at least on this list, there seems to be an awful lot of uninformed speculation. It makes for interesting reading but it tends to drive away some of the scientific types.... pb ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:55:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vivian Donahue Subject: Cap processing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" What would be wrong with simply putting it into a mesh bag for spinning them dry? Personally, I usually just drain it, then set the bowl with cappings inside an empty super on top of my inner cover and let the bees clean them up, but I only have a couple hives. Fun to watch them burrowing down into the wax... Vivian > I have been thinking of making some form of screen box to fit in an >extractor and spin out the cappings. Am I reinventing the wheel? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:07:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Seperating honey from cappings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All this recent discussion reminded me of two matters mostly applicable to those with more than a few hives: A. At an ABF meeting 3 or so years ago, one of the speakers was from a reasonably large operation in the upper Midwest that processes wax. Mostly for commercial beekeepers. I recall him saying that the trade terms were that the wax processor got to keep any honey, and "often" the weight of the honey exceeded that of the wax! He claimed that a gravity method collected less than 50% of the honey in the cappings. (At today's prices, does anyone care?) He said most "dry" cappings processed through a spinner still had about 15% honey by weight. B. While I think only Kelley still offers a wax press, cider presses are still readily available from a number of sources and I wonder if they would do the job of a wax press? Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 04:55:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Bee forage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In answer to Fr. Athanasios' question, I cannot say what would make good bee forage in central Wisconsin, but can affirm that sweet white clover is excellent bee forage here in central Maine. I got my seed from Kelley's. It grew taller than a man, and bees love it. It blooms from June until frost. It is biennial, blooming the second year. It reseeds itself to some extent, but really ought to be replanted. A friend of a fellow beekeeper in this area has several acres of mint, which also yields copious honey of unspeakably wonderful quality, but which does not taste of mint. Mint is perennial, and some consider it a difficult to banish weed. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:30:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: New Irish Instruction Book on Beekeeoing Comments: To: Irish Beekeeping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All I show below information on a new Irish Instruction Book on Beekeeping. This work has 231 pages and is well illustrated. It makes a valuable addition to a beekeeper's library. Details are also posted on our web site at www.irishbeekeeping.ie The price is Hardback IR£15 + IR£2 packing & postage, Softback IR£10 + IR£2 packing and postage. To place your order please contact Mr Eddie O'Sullivan at + 353 (0) 21 454 2614 or e-mail eddie@indigo.ie Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland 35 hives, in beekeeping since 1997, definitely a beginner. New Irish Instruction Book on Beekeeping. 'Bees, Hives & Honey' is a comprehensive instruction book based on beekeeping conditions in Ireland. It covers all aspects, catering for beginners and experienced beekeepers alike. Eminent Irish beekeepers of the present day have put together a textbook which should fill the gap in Irish Beekeeping Literature since Revd. J.G. Digges published his 'Practical Bee Guide' at the beginning of the 20th century. A concise description of the life cycle of the honeybee together with a section on the bee flora in Ireland is also included. The year's work in the apiary and the handling of the honey harvest are dealt with in language which is easy to understand. This work was launched at the Beekeeping Course at Gormanston this year has been very well received by the Irish Beekeeping Community. The price is Hardback IR£15 + IR£2 packing & postage. Softback IR£10 + IR£2 packing and postage. To place your order please contact Mr Eddie O'Sullivan at + 353 (0) 21 454 2614 or e-mail eddie@indigo.ie The chapter headings are as follows: Chapter 1. Beekeeping in Ancient Ireland by Tadhg O'Mahony. Chapter 2. Start & Development of Organised Beekeeping in Ireland by D. J. Deasy. Chapter 3. Honey Bees, Wasps and Bumble Bees by Bro. Colm Kennedy. A short account of the differences between the three insects. Chapter 4. Personal & Handling Equipment by Bro. Colm Kennedy. A description of the various items of protective clothing necessary and also a description of the tools of the trade. Chapter 5. Getting Started by Bro. Colm Kennedy. How to get your first hive and how to set it up. Chapter 6. Food by Bro. Colm Kennedy. What does the honeybee eat and drink? Chapter 7. The Year's Work by Bro. Colm Kennedy. An in-depth account of what the beekeeper should do in the year. Chapter 8. Find the Queen by M. Mac Giolla Coda. Some valuable and well tried methods of finding the queen, which will make this daunting task much easier. Chapter 9. Queen rearing by M. Mac Giolla Coda. All the relevant information for rearing queens successfully. Chapter 10. Introduction of Queen Bees by M. Mac Giolla Coda. Having reared queens learn how to introduce them to the colonies they are destined to head. Chapter 11. Race Conservation & mating Isolation by M. Mac Giolla Coda - The Dun Aonghusa Method. A description of how mating isolation was achieved by the Galtee Bee Breeding Group based on the layout of the ancient fortress on Inis Mor, Aran Islands off the west coast of Ireland. Chapter 12. Breeding Better bees, Evaluate, Record, Select & Cull by M. Mac Giolla Coda. Read how to improve the temperament of your bees and make beekeeping sting free and more. Chapter 13. Colony Appraisals by M. Mac Giolla Coda. What to look for in your bees. How to read the situation when examining a colony. Chapter 14. The Nucleus Hive by M. Mac Giolla Coda. See for yourself the many uses a small colony of bees can be to the beekeeper. Chapter 15. Uniting Bee Colonies & nuclei by M. Mac Giolla Coda. Learn more about the nature of honeybees and how to unite two colonies successfully whenever necessary. Chapter 16. Signpost to the Active Season by Michael Woulfe. At this stage of the book you should have acquired all the practical knowledge necessary. This chapter is a calendar to remind you of the tasks as the seasons indicate. Chapter 17. Sources of Food in Ireland for the Honeybee by James J Doran. A description of the Trees and Shrubs that provide food for our honeybees and honey for the table. Also it is a concise lesson on plant reproduction that is easy to follow. Chapter 18. Honey preparation for market & Show by Peter O'Reilly. Now that we have boxes of honey how do we get it into the jar and onto the shop shelf? What is a Honey Show and how do you take part in it?. Chapter 19. Beeswax for Show by Redmond Williams. Beeswax is a very valuable product of the hive. This chapter tells how to harvest it and how best to prepare for both show and other uses. Chapter 20. Beekeeping Problems by Eddie O'Sullivan. Problems occur in beekeeping also. Learn how to deal with them. Chapter 21. An Teagasc Clonroche by P Bennett. For many years An Teagasc (formerly ACOT) have been carrying out research on bees and soft fruits at Clonroche in Co wexford. This is a short account of their work in beekeeping. Chapter 22. Glossary. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 06:31:45 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Cap processing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a nice stainless steel one. Works well until the screen plugs with wax and it overflows - which is in a very short time. BeeCrofter@AOL.COM wrote: > I have been thinking of making some form of screen box to fit in an > extractor and spin out the cappings. Am I reinventing the wheel? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:56:51 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Condensation...was overwintering nucs Comments: To: Lloyd Spear MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Lloyd Sorry about the delay in replying...Massive computer crash! My hives would come under your description of "tight", no gaps, no extra entrances, no deliberate ventilation, there are significant differences in construction to what many consider is "standard". I live un the UK Midlands...The overwhelming hive standard here is the B.S. National. As the proprietor of APEX ENTERPRISES I conducted many experiments in equipment design. I used to keep bees on the roof of the seven story building that my factory was part of, very windy and as cold as it gets in the UK...One winter storm not only blew off several 10" deep, heavily built roofs and scattered crown boards (inner covers) and ekes over a wide area. But some of the parts were blown so far away that they were never recovered. A quick re-think was called for...and this is what I came up with. My hives are top bee space (normal National equipment is bottom bee space) I decided to make some roofs that were the same size as the hive (no overhang) these roofs consisted of a 460mm square of 9mm plywood, a 50mm deep rim, a 50mm thick expanded polystyrene insulation block, this was finished off with a 460mm square thin ply top finally covered by a galvanised steel top skin. With this form of roof there was no need for an inner cover and to hold it in place I used stainless steel "Z" clips (available from the appliance trade). No provision was made for ventilation other than the entrance (the lowest point). That was all twenty years ago I have used that system on about 80 hives, in a dozen different apiaries, and have not noticed any condensation. Prior to using this insulated roof I regularly noticed condensation on the crownboard and occasionally mould growth. The insulated top distorts the winter cluster into more of a carrot shape...I feel this broader top gives the bees better access to winter stores at the coldest time of the year. Having said all that about winter, the summer poses no problems either...the bees ventilate the hive by fanning inside the entrance in just the same way as hives with more conventional roofs. Best Regards, Dave Cushman G8MZY Email: dave.cushman@lineone.net Website...Beekeeping and Bee Breeding http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 07:55:45 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beekeeperc@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Cap processing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They do sell a stainless steel screen box that fits into a extractor thats used to spin out honey from cappings. I know that Ed Weiss sells them. He's located in Wilton, CT. Tel: 203-762-3538 Hope I have been of some help. Norm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 09:56:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Erick and Wendy Platt Subject: Wax press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is a link to a site with a homemade wax press: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/press.htm There are no plans, but anybody should be able to build one of these. I would probably use a hydraulic jack myself. Erick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:57:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Swanky Subject: Re: Excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would like to improve my use of excluders as well. The main problem is the reluctance of some colonies to go through them in the spring, when one is using configurations other than a single brood chamber. This results in crowded brood chambers, more swarming and less honey. Of course, everyone has instituted a favourite management technique of some sort to combat the problem. However, the trick is to discover a technique or innovation that saves time, reduces hive manipulations, decreases swarming and improves honey production. I am unconvinced that changing the grid size of excluders will make much difference. Actually, some colonies prefer crowding the brood chamber when faced merely with drawing foundation, and no excluder. Further, once you get reluctant bees working above an excluder, they seem to pass through them with little trouble. Although I am not sure I have seen any “run” through them; though they will occupy a wet super pretty fast near the end of a nectar flow regardless of how they felt about them in the spring. (Are spring bees fatter? More conservative? Less aggressive?) I am wondering whether anyone has tried using queen pheromone (a Bee Boost strip) in the first super above the excluder? Additional queen pheromone by itself contributes to less swarming, according to Mark Winston in The Biology of the Honey Bee. However, I recently read John Pedersen’s article “Use of Pheromones in Beekeeping,” (Vol. 21 No. 7 – Spring 2000, Canadian Beekeeping. In this article he describes how some strips lost in the yard attracted a huge cluster of bees overnight. If so, why not attract them above the excluder? Wouldn’t this have somewhat the same effect as moving stores or brood above the excluder, without the effort? Tom Swanky tswanky@goldcity.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 20:30:34 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: crpost Subject: Re: SUMITHRIN TOXICITY TO BEESl MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Paul Cherubini wrote: Robert, Dave Green was talking about the impact of Sumithrin insecticide I have to agree that that is where this thread started, but reread Dave's contribution. My reply was to his having hives in "veggie fields" with stronger stuff than Anvil being sprayed and the boom moving right over the hives ... Many thanks though ... I appreciate the concerns that you have regarding the mozzy sprays. Robert Post ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 20:59:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Weird new foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In experiments with separators for making comb honey, I have tried many materials. One was ordinary 1/8 inch wire mesh. The bees like it fine but often draw comb upon it, marring the section of comb honey. What is amazing is that the comb drawn is sometimes worker size. What would induce the bees to do such a thing. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:07:09 -0500 Reply-To: boby@lakecountry.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Young Subject: Re: Wax press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I built one of these from the pictures to extract honey from my top-bar hives and to squeeze cappings from my langstroths. Works great but it is very big. In fact it is HUGE! Better have some space to store it in when not in use. My idea would be to build one similar to a cider press but using some large diameter PVC pipe (8" or more) with some holes drilled in it for the body of the press and use a large screw to press with. Bob Young Lindale,TX ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:44:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: Re: Wax press In-Reply-To: <200008190340.XAA08963@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 8/18/00 10:07 PM, Bob Young at boby@lakecountry.net wrote: > My idea would be to build one similar to a cider press but using some large > diameter PVC pipe (8" or more) with some holes drilled in it for the body Bob - Keep in mind that any PVC pipe that large in diameter is probably not suitable for contact with food products. Most everything over an inch or so is rated DWV (drain, waste, vent). I don't know how high or low the risk of contamination is with PVC of this type but I'd look into it first. Regards, Barry ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 05:02:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: thymol and Apiguard Has anyone used Thymol or Apiguard as miticides? If so I'd be grateful to hear about their experience. Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchey@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 22:17:06 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Mann Subject: PVC and food Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Barry Birkey commented on possible use of PVC pipe in presses: >Keep in mind that any PVC pipe that large in diameter is probably not >suitable for contact with food products. Most everything over an inch or so >is rated DWV (drain, waste, vent). I don't know how high or low the risk of >contamination is with PVC of this type but I'd look into it first. I agree. Many commercial materials called PVC are only about half polyvinylchloride; the rest is a mixture of plasticisers etc etc, some of which can leach into some liquids. R - Robt Mann consultant ecologist P O Box 28878 Remuera, Auckland 1005, New Zealand (9) 524 2949 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 07:22:49 +0100 Reply-To: Ruary Rudd Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ruary Rudd Organization: Westgate, waterville Subject: Lecture on bee keeping Comments: To: Irish Beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Kerry Beekeeper's Association announces the following lecture Subject "Changes in German beekeeping over the ages" Lecturer Dr Reimund Schubert from North Bavaria who is on holiday in Killarney. he is an expert on bee breeding and heads up some institute there. Venue the Teagasc Office in Killarney, from Cork take the Bypass in Killarney to the Tralee Road, the Teagasc Office is on the right hand side of the road a couple of hundred yards past the second roundabout; (i.e the roundabout which puts you onto the Tralee road. Date Wednesday 23rd August Time 8.00 p.m. sharp. Any beekeeper who wishes to come is welcome Ruary Rudd ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 15:03:27 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Weird new foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All Regardless of the substrate, when the bees build cells they will aim to use worker or drone sizes according to their need. If we give them a pattern to work to (foundation) it is easier for the bees to adopt this cellsize than to modify the pattern to a size that would suit them better. Best Regards, Dave Cushman G8MZY Email: dave.cushman@lineone.net Website...Beekeeping and Bee Breeding http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ----- Original Message ----- From: William Morong One was ordinary 1/8 inch wire mesh. The bees like it fine but > often draw comb upon it. What is > amazing is that the comb drawn is sometimes worker size. What would induce > the bees to do such a thing. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 08:46:17 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: Wax press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know if it is PVC but I have a piece of 10" plastic pipe left over from the city puting in a new water main. I would think this would be suitable. rs ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 06:41:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: BEE-L: approval required (CF461C06) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by boby@LAKECOUNTRY.NET to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove the entirety of previously posted material. > ----------------- Original message (ID=CF461C06) (42 lines) > Barry, > I have looked into this and as far as I have been able to > research, DWV > polyvinylchloride pipe is just a thinner version (Schedule > 80) of Schedule > 40 and therefore having a much lower pressure rating. > Schedule 40 is rated > for potable water in houses as is CPVC which is coded in our > area in hot > water applications. I would be much more concerned about the > glues used to > weld pipe and fittings together which actually dissolves the > outer layer in > order to get the permanent bond. Even copper piping, used in > many plumbing > applications will leach into water in measurable amounts. > Bob Young ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:54:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: small cell foundation Hello all, In 1985 i talked to Dadant (www.dadant.com)about making the small cell foundation. They said they still had the old old molds but they were in bad repair but could be repaired. The old foundation was indeed around 5mm. Dadant told me then they would produce the small cell foundation if the demand was great enough. In 1985 i only was trying to show that the original cell size had been enlarged by the hand of man and 5mm was indeed the true natural cell size. When we discovered thru varroa research that varroa couldn't reproduce in as great a numbers in the small cell size the issue of cell size became very inportant to me. In a previous post Dee stated that when given large cell foundation her queens tried to lay unfertilized eggs in the 5.3mm+ worker cells. I agree thats what happens most of the time with European queens when given the large cell after being on the small cell for awhile. African queens which have allways been on 4.9mm foundation seem to lay fertilized eggs in the larger worker cells right away when taking over a european colony as is the case in western Texas my friends tell me. I find the fact most puzzling. A long known fact about queens is that before laying a egg in a cell,the queen determines the diameter of the cell with her forelegs. The legs function as calipers and if the diameter measures 1/4 inch (size of a drone cell). She lays a unfertilized egg. question: Why do the african queens seem to move up and down the cell size quicker than the european queens? Very busy time for me so will look at all the posts again this winter but thought i would add a couple things to debate. I thank you Dee for having the courage to come forward with your ideas and have enjoyed our direct emails on cell size! Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 15:33:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Varroa tolerance/resistance In-Reply-To: <200008210400.AAA23301@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Greetings I wish to point out the incredible irony in the August 2000 issue of the American Bee Journal. On page 659 it says: "Our research demonstrated that it is relatively easy for beekeepers in the southwestern US to produce varroa-tolerant honey bee populations". On the previous page, in another article, it says: "despite some claims to the contrary, there are no beekeepers or researchers who have successfully bred a line of bees that is varroa resistant". I hope beekeepers read these words carefully. Peter Borst Spencer, NY