From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 07:55:35 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05159 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:55:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00239 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:58:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141258.HAA00239@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:58:29 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0010C" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 94942 Lines: 2071 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:54:32 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: How Good is the Sugar Shake? In-Reply-To: <200010150301.XAA25398@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I show the table as received. I don't find it easy to follow, but make > an assumption I can read it. I apologize. Tabs were used in the creation of the table and different systems show them differently. I worked quite some time on it and still it did not transmit well. To remedy that, I have now posted the table at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Formic/SugarShake.htm In posting it, I have also corrected a couple of transcription errors. > where > were the bees taken from in the sample of a cupful? Was it done in > exactly the same way for each hive? In other words is the sample > representative of all bees. If the mites for example are mainly on young > bees in the brood nest, then a sample from outside the brood nest would > have much less mites... The samples were taken from the brood nest by shaking brood frames. At least, that was what the instructions were. Sometimes instructions are not followed faithfully in the real world. > The second problem is posed by the small number of mites in the samples. > 12X0, 1x1, 0x2, 2x3, 1x4, 1x5, 1x8 & 1x28 indicate such a low number > that sampling variations make 0 quite common. So, multiplying factors > cannot be reliable. Working back from your apistan figures you expect 8 > from the Dixon Bush measurement, so 28 is larger by a factor of 3. > Rattai is the other that is out of line with the ratio. The others are > more or less what I would expect. Also, the ratio of 49 is very > influenced by one count of 28! It would be much larger if this result > were ignored. Very true. These types of things are tricky when the mites are few. I was curious to see what, if any relationship exists. It appears that any mites in a sugar roll indicate that there are quite a few mites in the hive. A statistical look at the numbers above might be illuminating, but I have not figured out quite how to do that. BTW, the amount of brood in our hives is quite low now, being from zero to a frame or so. That could also be a factor. We are finding mites in sugar shakes now in yards where the shakes indicated zero only a month or two ago. We did not really expect a simple relationship, but one would have been nice. allen --- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:38:23 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Mann Subject: Re: Sampling honey for AFB In-Reply-To: <200010150048.UAA22565@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Trevor Weatherhead >AUSTRALIA wrote: >I think that there needs to be a radical rethink of how AFB is handled. If >a country is not on the medication treadmill, then why criticise it if it >does not want to go that way. I believe it can handle AFB without >medication. >Look to the future. You may still need to employ current methods in the >short term but will they still be available in the future? Very well put Trevor. I agree completely. While we're on AFB spores, could anyone state proof they're not significantly spread in foundation? R - Robt Mann consultant ecologist P O Box 28878 Remuera, Auckland 1005, New Zealand (9) 524 2949 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:16:08 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: S W Cranfield Subject: Re: Sampling honey for AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi I From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home sweet home Subject: [Fwd: I have a question for you.]] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got some post here in Europ...................... -------- Original Message -------- Subject: I have a question for you. Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:18:14 EDT From: Mza748mo@aol.com To: jtemp@xs4all.nl I have had a bee enter my house from an unknown opening. They are dark with thin yellow lines, kind of like a hornet I suppose. If I have been identifying those correctly, lol. The fuzzyness around its neck part, the best way I can explain it, is greyish. I want to identify this species to find out if it is dangerous. They seem to like my sliding door. If you can help me out in identifying this invader I would appreciate it. Thanks Pam ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:59:49 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Comb Honey In-Reply-To: <200010072306.TAA00371@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <200010072306.TAA00371@listserv.albany.edu>, Alan Riach writes >The easiest, cheapest and best way to get comb honey is to use starter >strips (2.5cm, 1") on normal frames and then produce "cut comb". Been there, done that. If you want to seriously restrict your heather crop (see your comment below about the years harvest) go ahead. In a good year you will cut down your crop a little, and in a bad year you will get zero. Going for cut comb you will get well less (over a period of years) than if you use full sheets, and the difference is a lot more than the small saving made in using starter strips. >I agree absolutely about ONLY using one deepbrood chamber and it helps >if there are plenty of bees in it. When we go to the heather (beginning >Sept here in Scotland) we like to see bees hanging out of the entrance >due to lack of space. Despite the fact there are a lot of local variations, going to the heather in early Sept will mean that in all but a handful of seasons you have missed the crop (our last SIGNIFICANT heather flow in Sept was 1983). We start moving to the heather (where there is some bell present) around 5th July, and aim to complete moving to the ling only sites around 27th July. (We run four trucks a night, every night, during that period, progressively filling the sites roughly in flowering order) Peak weeks are third and fourth weeks of July for Bell, and first to third weeks of August for Ling. Seasons are earlier than they used to be, and in any case the OLD traditional date by which you had to be up to the moors for the Ling was 12th August (nowadays about 10 days earlier). Regarding the cramping into one deep box, well that is fine if you only want a serviceable crop of comb honey, but with modern extracting equipment it is out of date advice, yet it is widely printed as the ONLY way to go to produce heather honey. Next year try ONE good hive by getting it up to the moors a lot earlier, and giving it UNLIMITED space, preferably in the form of drawn deeps. Take the excluder away in the first week of july to give the queen freedom to lay as much brood as she wishes (plenty of eggs first two weeks of july = plenty of foragers the key middle two weeks of August = a heather crop if there is one to get ). Bring the boxes to us and we will extract them for you if you cannot do it yourself (you are not very far away). 'Hanging out' does indeed give you a 'kick' when you see it, last year on the bell we had several in one place hanging from the roof to the floor, round three sides, on four deep box hives, but it is an error to delay supering hoping for it. It means that these bees which should be working on getting your maximum crop cannot get in to offload, and instead of foraging they are being used as tankers. It generally means you are several days too late in getting to them with more space, and it has a knock on effect in the winter, as a seriously congested hive just cannot raise as much brood as it would normally do, and then you have a lower population of young bees for winter, and not enough young bees equals poorer wintering. In our case we alleviated the problem by adding two more boxes to all those colonies, and as it was only late July there was still enough time for the colonies to recover their laying deficit once they moved all the nectar up to the new boxes. I'll bet it cost us 10 to 20 pounds of honey a colony on the worst congested ones though, just through our own neglect to get round quick enough. > >Next easiest I've found Ross rounds - the bees fill a small section >which has no corners much more completely than the small square sections >(10cm x 10cm - 4" x 4") usually used here in the UK. Never tried the ross rounds, but used to try the wooden ones (burned the lot several years ago) but weight for weight we got about 25% of the crop that drawn comb deeps get (even then only if we were very lucky and got the bees just right). You CAN get a good price for them, but not nearly high enough to compensate for the crop difference and the extra work involved in having the colonies just right. > >We always produce cut comb honey on the heather because it's thixotropic >and difficult to extract, although it never crystallises. However cut >comb would be messy with some of the thinner honeys and the cut section >would have to be laid on a drip grid prior to packaging. Nowadays we extract the lot, and primarily from DEEP combs which the bees definitely prefer (even for cut comb work). There is a SMALL market for cut comb in Scotland, and a larger market in whole virgin combs for export to Germany. Last time we ran significantly for cut comb we got about 4 tonnes, and started off selling it freely, but came up against two limiting factors, size of market, and losing the scarcity value, which ultimately meant that, after selling a couple of tonnes in four months, we just had to offload the lot to Germany in full combs before it crystallised (it does eventually, like gravel). >The heather crop has been a disaster here in Scotland due to sustained >wet weather. See above comment regarding timing. It also depends a lot on location this year, however we do have 45 active heather sites, covering a range of 100 miles from west Perthshire to central Aberdeenshire, and NONE have yielded a blank. We have a heather crop of mainly calluna (Ling) which is ABOVE normal. The Bell failed due to frost on 18th July this year, but the ling flowed quite freely, although intermittently, from about 2nd August through to about 24th August. Some sites got their flow a week or so later than others. You really need the rain to get the nectar to flow. We actually have more crop failure years (1998 was the last one) due to dry conditions rather than wet ones (1985 was the last wet failure). I define a failure as a year with a colony yield less than 50% of average. Most of the beekeepers I associate with also report a reasonable to good heather year, and one of them (with over 400 hives) has claimed it to be one of his best 10% in a career of over 50 years. I certainly would not say that, but it just underlines the contrasts that you can get. Incidentally, that guy goes to the heather even earlier than we do. I have heard several people claiming that it was a failure and presumed it was an attempt to talk up the market, or (in one case) an attempt to shift the blame away from management issues on to weather issues. The crop was there to get in the areas we were in (I cannot speak for areas outside our range), but, for those with poor crops, a crucial factor may have been management in late May, throughout june, and the first week of july. Weather in E. Scotland was seriously unfavourable at that time, and if you did not spot the curtailment of laying by the queen at some stage during that time and administer a trickle feeding programme to keep the brood production up, you will just not have had the weight of foragers at heather time. The queens in some colonies laid no eggs for a fortnight in late June due to the incessant cool and dry north-easterly winds, and a gallon of syrup at that time, even as a one off, stimulated the queen nicely. Come back to me off list if you wish more info, as this is a seriously local situation probably of little interest to most respondents. Kind regards Murray McGregor -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 0100 16:14:21 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Tooley Subject: Re: comb honey Murray McGregor said he was commenting on a local situation of little interest to others.Actually it was quite interesting and methods of increasing honey production without increasing labor are welcome reading.Such things as timing of brood rearing in advance of your targeted nectar flow are critical to a good crop anywhere in the world.TIMING IS EVERYTHING ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:21:33 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: How Good is the Sugar Shake? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > used. A quick glance reveals that the ratio varies from around 15:1 to > > infinity:1. Several hive groups that gave zero results from sugar shake > > subsequently yielded mites in the hundreds. > > If indeed these were accurate counts, this would prove to me just how > unreliable and basically useless the sugar roll test is. I can get a more > reliable test just by opening a few drone cells. We know the amount of young brood in a hive will vary from time to time. Some bees are shutting down the queens egg laying when there is less nectar and pollen coming in, even during spring build up. When there is less cells with young larvae for the mites to enter, I believe we will find a larger percentage of mites on adult bees instead of hidden in cells. The ratio between brood and adult bees will vary considerably over the season, and so will undoubtedly the ratio between mites in cells and on bees. This will make any test running over less than a brood cycle uncertain. It will give a hint of the situation in the hive, but can't be used for any closer evaluations. Don't ask me for any proofs, just trying to be logic........ -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:44:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: shilliff@JUNO.COM Subject: PMS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, This year we have noticed an increased incidence of PMS and some very early crashes.Has anyone else in the northeast US experienced the same? Any thoughts on the cause(beside higher than normal levels of vampire mites)? Strange weather or the 3-4 year mite cycle? BTW I have 3 cases of APICURE formic acid gel packs left over.Anyone need them?plz email off list @ shilliff@juno.com. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:39:02 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Cappings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Could someone explain to me how a capping spinner works? > What's the principal behind it? A picture of my home made spinner. http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/biodling/ext_3.jpg Feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:21:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: PMS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you are positive about increased PMS, then surely you had a higher than normal infestation of Varroa mites and/or tracheal mites. Did you change your treatment program for the mites? Either time of year or the chemical used? PMS is a thing not easily described to some people. It is best described as the illness that is caused by the injuries suffered by the bees from mite infestation. An example of this among humans is cancer, but all cancer patients "cause of death" is the secondary infection such as pneumonia, renal failure, cardiac arrest, etc., but never CANCER. Did you TEST for mites? How often and when? I hope I have helped. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 07:38:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: AFB and U.V Light Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Peter and everyone, I have used UV light in an educational demonstration for teaching beekeepers how to look for AFB scale. It works very well but many other biological materials also fluoresce such as pollen and even the combs seem to have a little but the scale shows up nicely. Try it first with a comb that you know has some scale in and you will quickly see what to look for. In the demonstration it worked very well to show beekeepers where on the comb to look for the scale so after seeing it under the UV they could easily find it in normal light. I think UV could be used for inspecting combs for AFB scale and allow you to find those with only a few scales more easily. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:18:20 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: AFB and U.V Light MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit UV light will show foliage workers with a light glow. Nurse bees don't show up. I have been marking the queen with glow fingernail polish. When the UV light is on She can run but she can't hide. Michael Housel ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:23:32 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Morton Organization: Central Science Laboratory Subject: Re: AFB and U.V Light MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, When I tried this with the sort of small portable UV source sold for looking for checking fluorescent security markings, I found that AFB scales did not fluoresce, but pollen and other materials in the comb did as Blane noted. I believe that wave length of the UV source is important. A short wavelength (high-energy) source may work where the commoner long wave-length will not. James Blane White wrote: > I have used UV light in an educational demonstration for teaching beekeepers how to look for AFB scale. It works very well but many other biological materials also fluoresce such as pollen and even the combs seem to have a little but the scale shows up nicely. -- _____________________________________________________________ James Morton 'Geertje', Canal Lock 92, S.E Regional Bee Inspector Windmill Lane, Norwood Green, National Bee Unit Southall, Middlesex, UB2 4NH Environmental Biology Group Tel/fax: 0208 571 6450 Central Science Laboratory Mobile: 07719 924418 Web: http://www.csl.gov.uk e-mail: j.morton@csl.gov.uk _____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:48:51 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: FW: cost of bee removal? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I sent this to sci.agriculture.beekeeping and thought it suit BEE-L too even though we have covered this in the past: > >Can anyone tell me the average cost to have > >a beekeeper remove honeybees from a house? > > > I charge a minimum of $250.00 With me, it depends. First, if the bees are in a house belonging to a landowner where I have bees, or a neighbour, and I feel in any way responsible, I don't charge. But, then, I don't always remove them either. In fact I almost never have had to in over a quarter century of keeping up to 4,000 hives. Most of my removals were when I was a small beekeeper and didn't know any better. I cannot actually think of a case where anyone decided to have the house actually disassembled after we had a chat about how nice and mostly harmless such bees are, etc. I explain how we have had up to a thousand hives in our own yard at times with honey customers and their kids coming and going -- and no mishaps. If they tell me they are terrified of bees, I tell them I was too as a kid and had nightmares about wasps, but I got over it. Obviously. If they tell me they are allergic, or their kids, I tell them that they are nuts not to get desensitized because it is a sure thing they will be stung out of the blue someday, somewhere when they don't have their kit along -- and, besides, the desensitization procedure is cheap (compared to dying) -- and there is no sense living in terror. I also explain that needles and pills give a false sense of security. They only give you ten extra minutes until you are dead if you don't get to a hospital. That is if you are really that seriously allergic -- and most are not really, but who wants to find out for sure? I also talk about the labour bill for carpentry and the potential damage to the building and the fact that they usually die out in winter and that if they are observant that they can just close up the hole when they are sure the bees are all gone and the honey has been robbed out in the spring before swarming time when the hole will likely attract a new swarm. (I've been really wrong about this and I had one house which threw a nice swarm every year for about ten years in early June. Guess who got the swarms which always landed nicely at eye level in the same tree. If they still think they want to operate, I say I'll be glad to come and remove the bees when the carpenters are ready and even lend them protective gear and a smoker. In the several cases where I have removed bees, I usually used homemade cone escapes and it worked -- sorta. It took longer and required more trips that initially expected. Sometimes the bees find an alternate route. I used a Sawzall recently to remove an entire window filled with bees, but that was for my own entertainment. See more about that adventure at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/diary/Diary090100.htm#swarm and subsequent pages. If I weren't doing a removal out of a feeling of responsibility or friendship, I would charge a reasonable hourly rate and mileage. Quote the maximum it might require for setting up, checking progress several times, taking everything away, and bringing a hive to rob the honey stash (if this is required so that honey does not go bad or melt in the wall), and to plug the hole(s). People think a beekeeper gets honey and bees from the job and that this is worth something. Some even expect to be paid for the bees or honey recovered. So be sure to make this point clear: nothing is paid for any bees or honey recovered, although you may offer to share the honey with them. Usually the honey is a small quantity and handling it is a hassel. Usually removals are at a time of year when the bees are not really worth anything much to the beekeeper, and queens are often lost, etc. Offer to give them to the building owner if he still thinks they are worth something. But above all, please remember: Beekeepers rely on the good will of the community more than many other occupations. We must always be ready to do public relations to protect our livelihood or hobby at all times. Removing bees is, for the beekeeper, a public obligation, so please be sure rates you charge are reasonable and your attitude is respectful and accommodating if you tell the prospects you are a beekeeeper because your actions reflect on us all. If you tell them you are in pest control, then I don't care what you charge. allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:04:20 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: AFB and U.V Light In-Reply-To: <200010161338.JAA27576@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I believe that wave length of the UV source is important. A short > wavelength (high-energy) source may work where the commoner long > wave-length will not. For those who plan to play with UV, it seems to me that there may be some hazard to the eyes from some sources of UV. Does anyone know more about this?? allen --- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:49:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Pink Pages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings! George's Pink Pages have been updated: http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/contentpages/articles.html Regards, Herb/Norma Bee Holly-B Apiary PO Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 "an educated consumer is YOUR best customer" The Beekeeper's Home on the Internet http://www.mainebee.com Stony Critters http://www.stonycritters.com =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:59:40 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: pdillon Subject: So what is it that makes AFB scales glow? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit O.K., Moving on a little way, why do AFB scales, pollen and the rest glow? Peter ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:59:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joseph Svelnis Subject: what did I do wrong MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron I only have 3 hives. Last year I had no trouble with my rr`s ,the bees just took to them and filled them up quick, in fact I got a blue ribbon for my rounds. This year putting the rr over the brood chamber then two 3 quarter supers nothing happened I had no excluder as last year this was in July as last year. Come late August I took of the rr and one honey super and the bees started to bring in the nectar,I know everything was late for us this year but what did I do wrong. Joe Svelnis ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:07:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: AFB spores in foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anecdotal evidence only I am afraid, but a local beekeeper is said to have deliberately and illegally (here in UK) recovered the wax from an AFB colony and used it for foundation for a new colony just to see what would happen. It didn't get AFB. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:14:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: So what is it that makes AFB scales glow? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Peter and everyone, Materials floresce because some of the chemicals in them absorb the UV light and emit visible light as the aborbed energy is disapated. Some minerals can be identified this way. Many biological materials also floresce and some of the chemicals can be identified by this floresce. It allows an easy way to find certian materials either as contamination or traces left behind. Food inspectors who are checking the sanitary conditions of a food storage area use UV light to find rodent infestations since dried urine also floresces and can be easily seen under black light. As for the safety of using UV light - the danger to the eyes depends on the wavelength but since the lights are readily available I don't think there is too much danger with the wavelengths used for this test. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:47:41 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: So what is it that makes AFB scales glow? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/17/00 10:33:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Blane.White@STATE.MN.US writes: > As for the safety of using UV light - the danger to the eyes depends on the > wavelength but since the lights are readily available I don't think there is > too much danger with the wavelengths used for this test. > Don't look into the light itself you have no need to. The light emittet by the material that is flourescing is in the visible range and harmless. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:25:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Gaucho & "Mad bee disease" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit French honey makers in a buzz over pesticides By Joelle Diderich PARIS, Oct 17 (Reuters) - French honey makers on Tuesday demanded a ban on pesticides which they alleged were decimating the local bee population by making plants so toxic that even the slightest contact could damage the insects' nervous system. Beekeepers want the Farm Ministry to outlaw so-called systemic pesticides, which are used to coat seeds at the time of sowing and are then spread via the sap into the plant, they said in a joint statement. They say that contact with large doses of the pesticides, used by wheat, barley, maize and sugar beet growers to protect against greenflies, causes bees to become disoriented and, unable to return to their hives, die. "It's enough for the insect to alight on the plant to receive a dose of neurotoxicity," said Maurice Mary, vice-president of the National Union of French Beekeepers (UNAF). "All the auxiliary fauna is decimated." The Farm Ministry, responding to concerns about so-called "mad bee disease," in January 1999 suspended use of chemical giant Bayer AG's pesticide Gaucho on sunseeds as a precautionary measure. But beekeepers said the measure was insufficient, as studies found that Gaucho left a residue which meant that even after two years, plants sowed on the same spot as the crop originally treated contained traces of the product. Honey makers planned to stage a protest on October 25 in front of Bayer's plant in the central French town of Cormery to demand that systemic pesticides -- including Gaucho and rival Aventis's Regent -- be banned for use on all crops. BAYER DENIES LINK A spokesman for Bayer said that its studies confirmed that Gaucho left a small residue in nectar and pollen, but there was no evidence of a link with the drop in France's bee population. "It is impossible to have zero residue," said Gerard Eyries, marketing manager for Bayer's agricultural division in France. "What is important is to know whether the very feeble quantities which have been found have a negative effect on bees." The product was sold in 70 countries with no reported side-effects on bees, he added. Eyries said Bayer had submitted its findings to the Farm Ministry's Toxicology Commission, which was due to rule in the next few months whether to lift the temporary ban on Gaucho use for sunseed crops. Its recommendation will be passed to Farm Minister Jean Glavany, who has final say in the matter. Farm Ministry officials were not immediately available to comment on the case. The Bayer spokesman called for a broad study to determine the cause of disorientation in bees, which has affected mainly three departments in central and eastern France: Indre, Vendee and Deux-Sevres. "There are many regions where Gaucho is not used and where there are beekeepers, and where beekeepers have considerable problems of declining honey production," he said, adding that acarids could also be to blame for the problem. According to UNAF, French honey production fell to around 25,000 tonnes in 1999 from 35,000 tonnes before systemic pesticides were introduced in the early 1990s. The number of hives has plummeted to one million from 1.45 million in 1996. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:42:43 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: huestis Subject: Clarifying pans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Can someone on the list tell me how to build/ or where to purchase a = clarifying pan? Setup will go from extractor into pan then pumped = through a filter and gravity feed into holding tank. My operation size = is 45 colonies, am expanding to 100 in one to two years. Than another = hundred in two more years. Thanks for any info. Clayton Huestis Crown Point, NY ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:42:57 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bluebottles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know this is diptera and not hymenoptera, but somebody may come up with an answer. A friend is studying the behavior of maggots feeding on corpses (he is a forensic archaeologist). He needs to mark the maggots so that he can recognise individuals but he doesn't want the marking to affect their behavior. Any suggestions? Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:41:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael W Stoops Subject: Re: AFB and U.V Light Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I believe that the long wavelength UV is not dangerous, but the short wavelength can blind. Don't shine the light directly into the eyes. Reflected light from opaque and flourescent objects won't hurt. Reflected short wavelength from glass, etc. will. Mike 1/2 way between Montgomery and Mobile, Alabama, USA ---------- >From: Allen Dick > ....there may be some hazard > to the eyes from some sources of UV. > > Does anyone know more about this?? > > allen > --- > A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:55:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Bluebottles Anglers use dyes to change the appearance of the maggot. Whether this alters its behaviour in any way I don't really know, but I've never noticed. Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:31:31 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beekeeperc@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bluebottles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has he tried food coloring as used in cake icing? Its non-toxic and should not injure our little friends. Norm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:52:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael Bassett Subject: Re: PMS Comments: To: shilliff@JUNO.COM I have hives in Mass and Conn. I had one case of PMS last year although I didn't know it at the time, requeend and the colony was fine. I treated with apistan on aug 15 of last year, noticed higher than normal level's of mites in feb/march, waited for formic acid to become available and treated with that this spring. I had never treated in the spring b/4. My first hive was noticed in early June, again i wasn't sure it was PMS. requeened and eventuallly killed the hive. checked all hives in early july and all appeared fine. went to put on apistan in mid august and one entire apiary of 8 hives had crashed, esitimate of 10-20% of my other hives also showed PMS but not as bad. used checkmite on the 8 hives and used apistan on the rest as I'm not registered to use it in conn, and am following up with formic acid on the ones that i used apistan on. also doing a drop test on some of the hives that i used apistan on. since last year was classified as a low mite year by the bee inspector in mass, I suspect that the mites are getting/or are restistent to apistan, I'll definetly know in the spring by the # of hives I lose. Since Formic acid didn't seem to do anything when treated in the spring, and if you remember we had one of the warmest springs in a long time, seems to me that the only alternative left is to use check mite? mike bassett ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:23:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Keim Subject: Restoring Perma foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Dear all, Is anyone aware of an efficient way of removing remnants of brood linings from the cell recesses of "Perma" plastic foundation? Presently, I scrape the old wax from the surface, remove the foundation from the frame, and boil, but it's a lengthy process, and sometimes I still have trouble getting them clean. Also, what advice can you give me on applying wax to the foundation after cleaning? If I dip it in liquid wax, it seems the buildup is too thick. Any ideas on applying a lighter coat? John Keim Keim Apiaries Fairview, Kansas ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:37:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: PMS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Mike, Given your descriptions, I'd be careful of the conclusions you draw. Please, this is not meant as a criticism, just an observation. You are using treatments and making later conclusions without any post treatment tests. You did this in August last year, you noticed that in Feb/March of this year, followed up with something else in June and then reached a lot of conclusions in October. The conclusions you are making now are at best, SWAGs (Scientific Wild Assed Guesses). Without having post treatment testing to get a clear picture of the results or the treatments, immediately after the treatments, you simply cannot make valid statements as to the treatments' effectiveness. A conclusion of Apistan resistance can only be valid if you test for varroa immediately after using Apistan. If you use Apistan for a week and then do an ether roll or sugar shake (or some other diagnostic testing) and still find high levels of live mites, ONLY then can validly conclude you have Apistan-resistant mites. If you use Apistan in the fall and notice you have high levels of varroa the following summer, all you can validly conclude is you have high levels of varroa that summer, nothing more. > My first hive was noticed in early June, again i wasn't > sure it was PMS. PMS is a confusing condition to diagnose. Its symptoms can look like and may actually be some or many other maladies. The temptation to cry PMS is hard to avoid these days, PMS is in vogue and it's easy to classify problems as PMS when they make in fact be something else, like AFB or deformed wing virus or any of a number of other diseases that beekeepers used to look hard for, before the days that everything could easily be explained by deciding one has PMS. A guess without conclusive tests is just a guess. > checked all hives in early july and all appeared fine. How did you check? There are many ways including visual examination, pulled drone brood, ether roll, sugar shake and sticky boards. In a previous year I have looked at my bees (visual examination) and concluded they look good only to have them crash by September. Sounds as though you may have repeated my blunder. I look harder now. > went to put on apistan in mid august and one entire > apiary of 8 hives had crashed, esitimate of 10-20% of my > other hives also showed PMS but not as bad. Obviously, hints of PMS in early June followed by treatments in mid-August was too late. Suspicions on PMS in June should have been confirmed or allayed in June. I'm not lecturing here, I'm sharing blunders I have made in my beekeeping past. Been there, done that. > used checkmite on the 8 hives and used apistan on the rest and am > following up with formic acid on the ones that i used apistan on. This follow up with formic will cloud any conclusions you will make. Will it be the Apistan or formic or the combination or the two that impacted the results? How will you know? > since last year was classified as a low mite year by the bee inspector in mass, I > suspect that the mites are getting/or are restistent to apistan, I'll > definetly know in the spring by the # of hives I lose. No you will not. Perhaps you will lose hives to winter conditions. Perhaps you will lose hives for other reasons. Hopefully you will find your bees better than you anticipate. There are many more variables than you seem to be considering. You may conclude that you have Apistan resistant mites, but there may be lots going on in your hives that you are dismissing. Next spring you'll have to consider if the checkmited hives were the same as the Apistan/formic hives? Same strength? Same breed/race? Same location and exposure? It's a multi-variable puzzle we beekeepers have and it's hard to arrive at the REAL solution. It's easy to be in vogue and settle on PMS and Apistan resistance. Everyone should read Andy's epistle, "Sad, Mad, Bad Bees". I'm not sure if I have the title correct, it wasn't the best written document ever authored, but Andy knew his bees and he warned about jumping on the diagnosis du jour rather than doing sound beekeeping. God bless 'im! > Since Formic acid didn't seem to do > anything when treated in the spring, Well, WHY didn't formic do anything in the spring? What is the basis of your statement? Perhaps formic worked very well in the spring and your bees picked up a subsequent infestation or reinfestation from another source. I have been VERY impressed with the formic induced mite fall I am seeing in my hives this fall. I wish Bob Stevens the best of luck getting the kinks out. If indeed formic did nothing for you in the spring, might you be able to offer any SWAGs as to why? Were your gel packs the initial off-spec run? Might there have been something about your application methods? Perhaps formic is more effective in fall than spring. > seems to me that the only alternative left > is to use check mite? It is this statement that inspired me to write. There are plenty of alternatives. First, better diagnosing for better conclusions. Faster action for suspected problems. IPM management, including screened bottom boards coupled with smoke that knocks mites down (tobacco for instance), drone trapping, queen confinement and splits. And don't be too hasty to dismiss formic, it's been VERY GOOD for me, perhaps the most promising product yet. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly beekeepers embrace coumaphos and remain silent, not protesting the government imposed hurdles keeping us from using such a promising product. Aaron Morris - thinking hives need coumaphos like fish need bicycles! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:38:26 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Visitors to SC fall flowers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been documenting the pollinators, the predators, and the other visitors to fall flowers of goldenrod and aster this year, with closeup photos, which are available now for all to see. Almost all are beneficials, rather than pests. I may have not seen every possible visitor, but I'll bet I've come close, and I have pics of all I have seen, but one megachilid bee and one small wasp, that were too spooky to ever get close to. One thing I have not been able to do is document the night visitors as I wanted. My infrared closeup photography needs some work, perhaps some new tools. There are still a few unidentified, and you may be able to help. Others may just want to learn the identity of those critters that they see. All can enjoy the wonder of these creatures and the little ecosystems based on these two very important plants. You can see them at: http://pollinator.com/goldenrod.htm and http://pollinator.com/aster.htm Pictures are available free for NONPROFIT, educational use, with certain conditions. For commercial use, contact me. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:27:37 +0200 Reply-To: Gilles RATIA Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gilles RATIA Organization: Apiservices Subject: Information for visitors - APIMONDIA 2001 - South Africa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The APIMONDIA-Congress in South Africa from the 2. - 6. September 2001. The beginning of a new millennium brings the first ever APIMONDIA Congress in Africa. The organisation of this world Congress in South Africa offers great opportunities for people from all over the world to participate. With excellent connections to South America, South East Asia, Australia and New Zealand, and regular flights to Europe and North America it is guaranteed that this will be a truly global Congress. South Africa has so much to offer the beekeeping world: To see African bees in their natural environment, the Cape-bee with its special features, and imported bee-races too. Large scale utilisation of bees for pollination and increasing honey production, showing the development from the original "honey hunting" to large scale technology, with related operations adapting to the rapid changes necessary in today's world. The Congress will be for everyone involved in beekeeping: the scientist, the professional beekeeper, the honey trader, the development worker and the hobby-beekeeper. In addition to these professional activities everybody will also have the chance to experience the great tourist opportunities of South Africa. Se the "big five" in their natural environment. I had the experience last month when I was there to organise the congress. I felt humble to face an elephant that close. Durban is in the KwaZulu-Natal province. The Zulus are proud people with a rich culture, that they will present to us. The Scientific programme will be developed by co-operation between scientists of the South African Organising Committee and the Standing Commissions of APIMONDIA, to ensure that we make a world Congress that reflects the special values of South African scientific development. In the Congress Plenary Sessions, selected keynote speakers will review scientific developments for the beekeepers as well as for fellow scientists. Genetically modified crops as bee forage, varroa and the African Bee races, Effects of trade in bees on the spread of pests and diseases, appropriate-technology for professionals and hobby-beekeepers and Honey and its use in self-medication are just a few of the headlines of the programme. At the Plenary sessions all lectures will be translated into English, German, French and Spanish. Seminars and Workshops will allow the scientists to also have smaller, specialist meetings. APIEXPO will feature displays by exhibitors from all over the world. Companies interested in making business in Africa, South America, South East Asia, Australia and New Zealand will find the South African Congress very attractive. An important aim of APIMONDIA'S Congresses is to create links between people involved in the beekeeping world. It has always been a definite goal of APIMONDIA to create friendships between people. Receptions, folklore and entertainment will be an integral part of the Congress to ensure that people have good opportunities to meet. The South African people are well know for the hospitality and excellent wines. I have been asked about security problems in South Africa. When I was there last month I did not feel any discomfort. The congress centre in Durban has recently hosted the worlds AIDS-conference with 11.000 participants without any problems. I look forward to meeting you in South Africa at APIMONDIA 2001. What is APIMONDIA APMONDIA is a world organisation of Beekeepers Associations. We work to create links between everybody involved in the Beekeeping world. We want to facilitate exchange of information and discussion of new ideas. We want to provide beekeepers, researchers and others involved in Beekeeping with the latest information. We want to promote apicultural scientific, technical and economical development in all countries and the fraternal co-operation of beekeepers associations, scientists and of individual beekeepers all over the world. We want to put into practice every initiative which can contribute efficiently to improving beekeeping practice and which can contribute to make Beekeeping profitable. APIMONDIA is 103 years old. It was started with the first congress in Brussels in 1897. APIMONDIA is thus one of the oldest NGOs in the world. We have 54 national beekeepers associations as members. With contacts to many beekeeping journals we represent 5-6 million beekeepers around the world. The biannual congress is the main meeting point for the beekeepers. The Federation has its general Assembly at the congress. At the congress you will have the chance to meet the members of the APIMONDIA Executive Council to discuss directly with them about your problems. Asger Søgaard Jørgensen President of APIMONDIA Møllevej 15 DK 4140 Borup Denmark www.apimondia.org www.apimondia2001.com For more information about the congress and the 2. announcment APIMONDIA2001 Conference Planners P.O.Box 82 / 66 Queen Street IRENE 0062 South Africa Tel. +27 (0) 12 667-3681 FAX + 27 (0) 12 667-3680 e-mail: confplan@iafrica.com In French, Spanish or German Apimondia-Bucharest IITEA Bul. Ficusului 42 A R-71544 Bucharest 1 Romania Tel: +40 1 232 0921 FAX +40 1 232 3487 e-mail: apimondia@itcnet.ro APIMONDIA- General Secretariat Riccardo Jannoni-Sebastianini Corso Vittorio Emanuele II, 101 I-00186 Roma RM Italy Tel: + 3906 685 2286 Fax: +39 06 685 2286 e-mail: apimondia@mclink.it ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:22:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael Bassett Subject: Re: PMS On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:37:15 -0400, Aaron Morris wrote: >A conclusion of Apistan resistance can only be valid if you test for varroa >immediately after using Apistan. If you use Apistan for a week and then do >an ether >roll or sugar shake (or some other diagnostic testing) and still find high actually somehow I sent the original message b/4 I had finished. after putting in the apistan this year for full time( and putting in a sticky board) i put in checkmite(with a new stickyboard) comparing the boards after I have far higher # of mites on the boards after the checkmite and that is after the normal # of days for apistan. So I'm still guessing as to resistence but sure looks like it. > >> My first hive was noticed in early June, again i wasn't >> sure it was PMS. >PMS is a confusing condition to diagnose. Its symptoms can look like and >may actually >be some or many other maladies. The temptation to cry PMS is hard to avoid >these days, >PMS is in vogue and it's easy to classify problems as PMS when they make in >fact be >something else, true but I sent multiple samples to beltsville and they confirmed no afb,efb,etc just PMS. > >> checked all hives in early july and all appeared fine. >How did you check? There are many ways including visual examination, pulled here I do need to do a better job, all I did was pull out drone brood and check for mite levels on a few of the hives not all, this I have to work on. > >> went to put on apistan in mid august and one entire >> apiary of 8 hives had crashed, esitimate of 10-20% of my >> other hives also showed PMS but not as bad. >Obviously, hints of PMS in early June followed by treatments in mid-August >was too late. TRue and now that I know what PMS looks like and since I'm now going to treat in the spring and test more should help to identify earlier. >Suspicions on PMS in June should have been confirmed or allayed in June. >I'm not >lecturing here, I'm sharing blunders I have made in my beekeeping past. >Been there, >done that. > >> used checkmite on the 8 hives and used apistan on the rest and am >> following up with formic acid on the ones that i used apistan on. >This follow up with formic will cloud any conclusions you will make. Will >it be the >Apistan or formic or the combination or the two that impacted the results? >How will >you know? I have allready done the drop test to confirm that the apistan treatment wasn't effective. and even though I have the checkmite only used it on the hives that had PMS and were in Mass where I could apply it. >You may conclude that you have Apistan resistant mites, but there may be >lots going >on in your hives that you are dismissing. Next spring you'll have to >consider if the >checkmited hives were the same as the Apistan/formic hives? Same strength? I'm mixing and matching on the hives in one location. some only had apistan, some only checkmite, and all hives were in equally bad shape, and I even wrote down the treatment on paper to compare in the spring. Since I have given these hives up to see what treatment works best I have not complicated it by multiple applications. and no matter what anyone concludes there will always be things going on in the hives that we don't know about, that we have to live with and is a fact of life. >> Since Formic acid didn't seem to do >> anything when treated in the spring, >Well, WHY didn't formic do anything in the spring? What is the basis of >your statement? >Perhaps formic worked very well in the spring and your bees picked up a >subsequent >infestation or reinfestation from another source. I again had sticky boards in some hives and didn't see a high mite fall but didn't test further, mistake again. but if my mites are resistent to apistan and had done a drop test, i still wouldn't have found any, guess I will have to do ether rolls or something next time. I have been VERY >impressed with the >formic induced mite fall I am seeing in my hives this fall. I wish Bob >Stevens the >best of luck getting the kinks out. If indeed formic did nothing for you in >the spring, >might you be able to offer any SWAGs as to why? Were your gel packs the >initial off-spec >run? Might there have been something about your application methods? >Perhaps formic is more effective in fall than spring. I applied by the directions for the directed time, as to off spec I can't know, I would assume I would be notified if the were off spec? the label does specify that it works better in the fall and even at that will only kill 70% of the mites. this brings me back to the original reason I wrote what I wrote. If you must treat for mites twice a year, and apistan is not working (well?) and formic doesn't appear to, and the label says it won't work well in the spring, your options do get more limited. as to whether my problems were because apistan in the fall was inefective, the formic in the spring was inafective, looking back I can't give you clear evidence, all i can say is that combination in my environment doesn't work. I can say that the apiary that was the worst is not isolated and I know there are no longer any hives left around it, at least the ones I knew about, so I ass u m they probably suffered the same fate. I did notice that formic like menthol some hives had the white powder some sill had the gel, again I didn't keep records but will next time as it could explain why some hive's had higher mites. > >> seems to me that the only alternative left >> is to use check mite? >It is this statement that inspired me to write. There are plenty of >alternatives. First, >better diagnosing for better conclusions. Faster action for suspected >problems. IPM >management, including screened bottom boards coupled with smoke that knocks >mites down >(tobacco for instance), drone trapping, queen confinement and splits. And I allready use drone comb, one sheet per hive, am looking at the screen boards and allread do splits, after looking back at my records on the 8 hives the ones that i rated as higher mite and PMS are hives that didn't have splits made from them or didn't swarm, but as per usual this is a WAG. mike bassett ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:27:54 +0200 Reply-To: Gilles RATIA Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gilles RATIA Organization: Apiservices Subject: Information for exhibitors APIMONDIA 2001 - South Africa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The APIMONDIA-Congress in South Africa from the 2. - 6. September 2001. Information for exhibitors, message from the president of APIMONDIA The beginning of a new millennium brings the first ever APIMONDIA Congress in Africa. The organisation of this world Congress in South Africa offers great opportunities for people from all over the world to participate. With excellent connections to South America, South East Asia, Australia and New Zealand, and regular flights to Europe and North America it is guaranteed that this will be a truly global Congress. APIEXPO will feature displays by exhibitors from all over the world. Companies interested in making business in Africa, South America, South East Asia, Australia and New Zealand will find the South African Congress very attractive. As a special feature to help the exhibitors the prices for exhibition spaces are with all facilities included. Those who has been at other congresses will know what that means. For further information on the APIEXPO please contact: Complete Exhibitions (Nigel Walker) P.O.Box 560 IRENE 0062 South Africa Tel: +27 (0) 12 667-2074 FAX: +27 (0) 12 667-2766 e-mail exhibit@iafrica.com South Africa has so much to offer the beekeeping world: To see African bees in their natural environment, the Cape-bee with its special features, and imported bee-races too. Large scale utilisation of bees for pollination and increasing honey production, showing the development from the original "honey hunting" to large scale technology, with related operations adapting to the rapid changes necessary in today's world. The Congress will be for everyone involved in beekeeping: the scientist, the professional beekeeper, the honey trader, the development worker and the hobby-beekeeper. In addition to these professional activities everybody will also have the chance to experience the great tourist opportunities of South Africa. Se the "big five" in their natural environment. I had the experience last month when I was there to organise the congress. I felt humble to face an elephant that close. Durban is in the KwaZulu-Natal province. The Zulus are proud people with a rich culture, that they will present to us. The Scientific programme will be developed by co-operation between scientists of the South African Organising Committee and the Standing Commissions of APIMONDIA, to ensure that we make a world Congress that reflects the special values of South African scientific development. In the Congress Plenary Sessions, selected keynote speakers will review scientific developments for the beekeepers as well as for fellow scientists. Genetically modified crops as bee forage, varroa and the African Bee races, Effects of trade in bees on the spread of pests and diseases, appropriate-technology for professionals and hobby-beekeepers and Honey and its use in self-medication are just a few of the headlines of the programme. At the Plenary sessions all lectures will be translated into English, German, French and Spanish. Seminars and Workshops will allow the scientists to also have smaller, specialist meetings. An important aim of APIMONDIA'S Congresses is to create links between people involved in the beekeeping world. It has always been a definite goal of APIMONDIA to create friendships between people. Receptions, folklore and entertainment will be an integral part of the Congress to ensure that people have good opportunities to meet. The South African people are well know for the hospitality and excellent wines. I have been asked about security problems in South Africa. When I was there last month I did not feel any discomfort. The congress centre in Durban has recently hosted the worlds AIDS-conference with 11.000 participants without any problems. I look forward to meeting you in South Africa at APIMONDIA 2001. What is APIMONDIA APMONDIA is a world organisation of Beekeepers Associations. We work to create links between everybody involved in the Beekeeping world. We want to facilitate exchange of information and discussion of new ideas. We want to provide beekeepers, researchers and others involved in Beekeeping with the latest information. We want to promote apicultural scientific, technical and economical development in all countries and the fraternal co-operation of beekeepers associations, scientists and of individual beekeepers all over the world. We want to put into practice every initiative which can contribute efficiently to improving beekeeping practice and which can contribute to make Beekeeping profitable. APIMONDIA is 103 years old. It was started with the first congress in Brussels in 1897. APIMONDIA is thus one of the oldest NGOs in the world. We have 54 national beekeepers associations as members. With contacts to many beekeeping journals we represent 5-6 million beekeepers around the world. The biannual congress is the main meeting point for the beekeepers. The Federation has its general Assembly at the congress. At the congress you will have the chance to meet the members of the APIMONDIA Executive Council to discuss directly with them about your problems. Asger Søgaard Jørgensen President of APIMONDIA Møllevej 15 DK 4140 Borup Denmark www.apimondia.org www.apimondia2001.com For more information about the congress and the 2. announcment APIMONDIA2001 Conference Planners P.O.Box 82 / 66 Queen Street IRENE 0062 South Africa Tel. +27 (0) 12 667-3681 FAX + 27 (0) 12 667-3680 e-mail: confplan@iafrica.com In French, Spanish or German Apimondia-Bucharest IITEA Bul. Ficusului 42 A R-71544 Bucharest 1 Romania Tel: +40 1 232 0921 FAX +40 1 232 3487 e-mail: apimondia@itcnet.ro APIMONDIA- General Secretariat Riccardo Jannoni-Sebastianini Corso Vittorio Emanuele II, 101 I-00186 Roma RM Italy Tel: + 3906 685 2286 Fax: +39 06 685 2286 e-mail: apimondia@mclink.it ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:14:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Becky boehm Subject: Re: Restoring Perma foundation Hello John Keim and all On the plastic foundation, I use pierco and when it needs renewed(from moth damage or a deadout) I scrape it down and wait for a cool day. Then I use my air compressor to blow off the cocoon stubs. I remember reading that someone else used a high pressure washer. The air compressor is less messy I would think. On applying fresh wax to the foundation try a paint brush and thin the bristles off one side of the brush, but the bees build the comb back up without problem when I use the air compressor to clean off the foundation as it doesnt remove the entire coating just the bottoms of the comb contents. hope this helps hope you already have a compressor, a powerwasher may be cheaper? Al Boehm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:51:52 -0400 Reply-To: beeman@kingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kent stienburg Subject: pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Everyone, I hope everybody had a reasonably good season. I'm in Eastern Ontario and I have noticed for the last few years from my records that the bees have found some pollen at this time of year. Sure enough they were bringing some in today. Not alot, but noticeable. Any ideas as to what it's from? Thanks Kent Stienburg ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:56:12 -0800 Reply-To: bobhog@pin.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pav Organization: BombusMaximus Subject: AFB and U.V Light Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> ....there may be some hazard >> to the eyes from some sources of UV. >> >> Does anyone know more about this?? Perhaps i am qualified to speak on this topic. The wattage is likely to be a major factor in the potential damage from Ultra-Violet lamps, in conjunction with the amount of UV hitting the eyes, whether directly or reflected. Wear UV absorbing safety specs. UV is generally categorised as UVA or UVB according to wavelength although of course it is a continuum rather than 2 separate things, and that continuum blurs into visible blue (violet) light as the wavelength gets longer. The shorter the wavelength, the higher the frequency, which translates to greater tissue damage, but short wavelengths are quickly absorbed (they don't penetrate deeply). Conversely longer, near-visible wavelengths do less acute damage, but penetrate more deeply. UV can cause corneal damage (the cornea is the clear front wind-screen of your eye, that people put contact lenses on) much like sunburn on skin (same as snow-blindness, arc-eye) which can be very painful for a few days. It is also a major reason for cataract, which is where damage to the ocular lens inside your eye (just behind the pupil-hole in the iris) causes the lenses to become opaque. The accumulated effect of natural sun UV is a large part of why almost everyone has cataract if they are over 75 - farmers and beekeepers and other outdoor occupations tend to get cataract earlier than housewives and office-workers (wear sunglasses, and a hat to shade your eyes). UV doesn't usually penetrate further than the ocular lens. It acts as a built in UV filter, absorbing the UV, sacrificing itself to prevent the UV reaching the delicate tissues of the retina. Near-visible UV, and just-visible violet light, with their longer wavelengths do less damage to the cornea and lens on the way through, but can penetrate to the retina (the light-sensitive membrane at the back of the eye, which converts light into electrical impulses to be sent up the optic nerve to the brain and finally 'seen' - equivalent to the film in a camera). The retina being light-sensitive is delicate, and ophthalmologists (eye-specialist doctors) today recognise that ordinary visible blue light, being the shortest wavelength that usually penetrates to the retina can gradually cause damage. Light intensity (Wattage) is the major factor here (don't look at the sun). Because of its poor penetration, UV is easily blocked with UV-absorbing specs. Sunglasses would work, but will probably make it difficult to see the scale. Fortunately most plastics absorb UV, without needing tinting or coating. I prefer to work my bees without a veil (unless they're beeing impolite) yet i wear ordinary cheap plastic safety specs to guard against the slim possibility of a sting to the eyes. These also will block UV, whether from sun or lamp. Ordinary prescription plastic spectacle lenses also absorb UV. UV blocking safety specs will not stop you from seeing the scale as you are seeing the re- emitted (fluoresced) visible blue light (which passes through clear plastic), not the actual UV. In summary: use low wattage, don't look directly at the light source, and use plastic safety lenses, especially if there are highly reflective surfaces around. Oh and wear sunglasses whenever the day is bright enough to use them. You may not notice the difference now, but you are likely hastening cataract otherwise (this goes double for Aussie and Kiwi beekeepers, our sun UV levels are... astronomical). My own query is how do the bees react to the UV lamp, given they can see these wavelengths? I'll have to take the Burton-lamp into the hives... -Pav (Moonlights as an Optometrist) ___________________________________ (\ Pav BobHog@pin.co.nz /) {|||8- -8|||} (/ BombusMaximus@yahoo.com \) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:18:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: ron taylor Organization: Limestone College Subject: Re: Restoring Perma foundation MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I recently used a pressure washer with a wide tip to clean hives which had wax moths. I am sure the water pressure could remove the wax. not sure it would damage the cells. Is you did this over a screened bottom hive body you could save the wax. Ron taylor Lowcountry Beekeeper John Keim wrote: > Dear all, > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:37:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "BOGANSKY,RONALD J." Subject: Paper Wasps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just finished looking through Dave Green's photos of pollinators. BTW Dave, they are excellent. Thank you for your time and for sharing them with the rest of us. I noticed a paper wasp in the goldenrod collection. This is exactly how I remember them. When I was young we called them long leg wasps because of the hanging down of their rear legs during flight. It was paper wasps that introduced me to the stinging world of insects, an intro I will never forget. For the past 5 or 6 years I have noticed a change in these wasps. They are no longer that brown, copper color as seen in Dave's photo. They now are dark will thin yellow bands on their abdomen and the their legs are also yellow. I don't see any of the brown variety at all. This change is noticeable in an area of at least 60 miles around me. I don't know if this color change is a different race, or subspecies or a genetic mutation. They exhibit the exact same characteristics as the brown variety in both behavior and nesting. I really don't know what caused this change, as I cannot see any benefits to the color change, but I do find it interesting that a change has occurred in a relatively short time. I realize this does not have much to do with honeybees, but I thought some folks would be interested. Thanks again Dave for the photos. Ron Bogansky Kutztown, (eastern) PA, USA + ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:00:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: An Hes monthly Newsletter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings! The below link will connect you to the "An Hes" monthly newsletter of = the West Cornwall Beekeepers Association . http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/contentpages/reports.html Topics:Processing Propolis ,bee venom,bee bites,EFB responds to = patties?,Leg-biting studies,Further on EFB,Cell size, Wish to have your club/aasoc. newsletter published on our web site? Let = us know and we will bee more than happy to do so. Regards, Herb/Norma Bee Holly-B Apiary PO Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 "an educated consumer is YOUR best customer" The Beekeeper's Home on the Internet http://www.mainebee.com Stony Critters http://www.stonycritters.com =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:58:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Hancock Subject: wasp saliva Hello, I have just heard a radio interview with some guy who has discovered a new product that he claims is made from wasp saliva in Japan. Apparently an athlete at the recent Sydney Olympics won her race after drinking this stuff. Can anyone tell me more about this? Regards, Ted ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:56:40 +0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hidetoshi Ikeno Subject: Re: wasp saliva Comments: To: haymedhon@MIDBC.COM In-Reply-To: <200010201200.IAA13720@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ted Hancock Subject: wasp saliva Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:58:49 -0400 haymedhon> Hello, haymedhon> haymedhon> I have just heard a radio interview with some guy who has discovered a haymedhon> new product that he claims is made from wasp saliva in Japan. Apparently haymedhon> an athlete at the recent Sydney Olympics won her race after drinking this haymedhon> stuff. Can anyone tell me more about this? Regards, Ted haymedhon> Yes, in Japan, there is a drink for athlete which is made by extract essence of Vespa mandarinia japonica. That is not so expensive, and taste is like regular sports drink. I am not sure about its effect. ---- Hidetoshi Ikeno School of Humanities for Environmental Policy and Technology, Himeji Institute of Technology 1-1-12 Shinzaike-Honcho, Himeji, HYOGO 670-0092, JAPAN ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:49:56 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: The Honeybees of the British Isles In-Reply-To: <200006071321.JAA23542@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200006071321.JAA23542@listserv.albany.edu>, Aaron Morris writes >James Kilty wrote in a submission titled >Subject: Re: From sci.agriculture.beekeeping: > >> The IOW disease turns out to be one of the viruses which are propagated >> rather well by varroa, I think it is now thought to be the Slow >> Paralysis Virus which caused it. Acarine may well have been the >> stimulus. > >I'm a bit confused by this. My interpretation is that James is saying that >IOW disease endemic in Britian in the 1920s may have been vectored by >acarine but now is believed to be the Slow >Paralysis Virus (SPV) which is being spread by varroa. Actually, I'm not >sure what is being said. Perhaps that SPV has always been around, acarine >vectored the outbreak in the '20s and that varroa is a more efficient vector >today? James, if you will, please set me straight. I have not read Beowulf >Cooper's writings. I cannot remember where I read the report on SPV. I will reread all my BIBBA articles in "The Bee Breeder". >Having read some of Brother Adam's writings I thought Britain's bee >populations were left quite devastated by IOW disease and Brother Adam >searched Europe, Northern Africa and the Middle East for genetic material to >breed with the survivors. Does Mr. Cooper assert that perhaps things would >have been better off without Borther Adam's importation of genetic material? >Admittedly I am not up to snuff on BIBBA's (Bee Improvement and Bee Breeders >Association) stance on the issue. I think one of their goals is to >reestablish the native dark bee. Is the intent to "filter out mongrel >genes" or to select from existing stock the characteristics that are most >desireable while concentrating towards those attributed to the native dark >bee? Any enlightenment will be appreciated. I attach an email from one of our national experts on this with his permission. I still have in mind a summary of the situation as set out by Beowulf Cooper and by members of BIBBA in the 3 decades since his work. Hello James, It is easy to make assumptions and come out with statements that are regarded as facts, so I will give you my thoughts on some of the points raised, so please do not quote me as these being authorative. Brother Adam was probably sincere in believing that the I.O.W. disease wiped out the indigenous population of bees, although when one thinks about it to make such a statement without a national survey was not really factual. Such a survey was never done or it would have been published. There was no doubt it did devastate a large proportion of the bee colonies here in Britain. Obviously I was not around then, and I can only quote others who were. Reading back copies of the British Bee Journal for 1925 and 1926 (I have the bound copies for those years) I find there are letters from beekeepers who say they have had the same bees from the turn of the century, at no time did they suffer losses from the disease. As Brother Adam made his statement prior to 1925 it appears there was not a total wipe out. It is not nature's way to do this. Rabbits survived their terrible disease, and the same has occurred with Varroa where no treatment has been given (Tunisia). Today there is a viable population of native bees here in Britain, although I cannot say if these are descendants of the native bee because I have no means of proving this. I say native in the sense that these have the same morphological characteristics as the native bee of the 1800's. This has been proved by examination of bees in the Natural History Museum by Eric Milner and John Dews who published their findings. Recently the work by Dr. Bo Vest Pedersen at Copenhagen University has shown that there are bees here in Britain and Ireland with identical morphometry (correction by James - dna studies in addition to morphometry) to the Apis mellifera mellifera bees of Tasmania. As the original Apis mellifera mellifera stocks of Tasmania came from Britain this seems to indicate that we still have bees here today similar to those of Britain at the beginning of the last century. As the native bee of Britain is the same sub-species as the bee of Northern Europe, and bearing in mind that we had a lot of imports of black bees from Europe in the early 1920's I cannot see how anyone can be definitive in making a statement either one way or the other regarding our "native bees". One can only speculate what Brother Adam could have achieved if he had used the survivors of the I.O.W. disease. He chose to create a hybrid bee, that at best is very variable, and at worst is an awful cross-bred bee. Prof. Ruttner took the opposite view to Brother Adam, that is to go for pure race bees, pointing out that one can never breed true from hybrids. I started beekeeping with Buckfast bees, but soon changed to 'native' bees. There has been a lot of misconceptions about 'native' black bees, one of which is that they are nasty tempered. This is easily disproved if one sees pure bred stocks that are not hybrids, for many so called black bees are hybrids. Today we have the problem of trying to get queens mated within strain, and our group have travelled vast distances over the last 20 years to sites which offer some isolation. If we are to make any worthwhile progress in finding colonies that will give either partial resistance or total resistance to Varroa, then we will only do so if we use pure bred stocks so that the resistant characteristics can be passed on. Progress is being made in the resistance sphere, we now have stocks that are damaging over 40% of the Varroa mites naturally dropping through the Varroa screens. Coupled with that we have identified a few stocks that are 100% hygienic, that is they will clean out every cell that has larvae damaged by freezing with liquid nitrogen. There is no doubt that many beekeepers today are questioning the logic of importing sub-species of bees that are different to Apis mellifera mellifera as this just makes the hybridisation problem worse. We can improve what we have got, it just takes some good beekeeping to do this. As Adrian Waring told me many years ago, "If you only cull the worst colonies and re-queen from your best, your bees will improve". I hope these comments will be of some help. Albert Knight BIBBA Groups Secretary aknight@blackbees.freeserve.co.uk -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 08:16:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Joseph A. Clark" Subject: Re: wasp saliva In-Reply-To: <200010201201.IAA13727@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed There was an article in the Norfolk (VA) paper about it. Apparently, it is made from a particular hornet in Japan. It is a natural product, and is not on the banned substance list of the International Olympic Committee. As the other posting mentioned, it's like a sports drink. The article said that the drink reportedly gives extra energy. I'd have to dig the article out (if it hasn't already hit the recycle truck) to add any more information. Joe At 09:58 PM 10/19/00 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, > > I have just heard a radio interview with some guy who has discovered a >new product that he claims is made from wasp saliva in Japan. Apparently >an athlete at the recent Sydney Olympics won her race after drinking this >stuff. Can anyone tell me more about this? Regards, Ted ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:57:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Coleene E. Davidson" Subject: Late season pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, I live in central lower Michigan. I am writing this on October 21. The = hive in my back yard is very active this afternoon bringing in a dark = orange colored pollen. Goldenrod is done, and it is a lighter color = than this. Does anyone have any idea what they are getting it from. =20 Coleene ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:34:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Screened Bottom Boards Greetings all, I have heard that the standard mesh size for screened bottom boards is 8 mesh or 1/8 inch squares. Why wouldn't 4 mesh (1/4") squares work? the 8 mesh is tough to find around here. Thanks! Scott