From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 07:55:36 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05162 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:55:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00242 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:58:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141258.HAA00242@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:58:29 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0010D" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 110053 Lines: 2424 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:23:01 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: pdillon Subject: GAUCHO AND FRENCH DEMOSTRATION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everybody, If the problem that the molecule Imidacloprid (Gaucho) is causing (if we beekeepers and independent researchers are correct!) interests you , and it should, then visit www.apiservices.com It has on its "new pages" an article printed in "LIBERATION", a french national newspaper covering recent developments! Also, just to keep you all informed, there is to be a National demonstration by all french beekeepers in front of the Bayer's factory on the 25th Oct. 2000. The aim of the demonstration is: 1. Beekeepers in France demand the removal of all products based on Imidacloprid are removed from the market immediately. 2. Beekeepers in France demand the suspension of all products containing the molecule "fipronil" produced by Rhone-Poulenc. 3. Beekeepers in France demand that in relation to the protection of useful organisms, especially honeybees, the procedures followed in the testing and placing on to the market of such materials is completely revised. Beekeepers will be moving from all over France in their vehicles with trailers carrying dead hives- killed by systemic insecticides. On the way each convoy will be stopping in major towns to make representations to local government officers, MP.s, press and T.V.etc., converging on the pre mentioned factory. If you support us send me a mail! Thank you for reading this mail Regards Peter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:32:41 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Screened Bottom Boards In-Reply-To: <200010220353.XAA15767@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, Scott Moser wrote: > Greetings all, > I have heard that the standard mesh size for screened bottom boards is > 8 mesh or 1/8 inch squares. Why wouldn't 4 mesh (1/4") squares work? the > 8 mesh is tough to find around here. Thanks! > Scott The quarter inch mesh allows robbing to take place through the screen and the area is so large that small hives cannot defend themselves. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:42:13 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Late season pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/21/00 2:22:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cedavidson@NETONECOM.NET writes: > I live in central lower Michigan. I am writing this on October 21. The > hive in my back yard is very active this afternoon bringing in a dark > orange colored pollen. Goldenrod is done, and it is a lighter color > than this. Does anyone have any idea what they are getting it from. There are many possibilities. One of the glories of keeping bees is that you become more alert to the botany/natural history of the area. Aster is quite frost resistant, and its pollen is yellow-orange. Another possibility is witch-hazel, which will bloom long after frost, though I'm not sure of the pollen color. A friend of mine found hives carrying pollen in mid-winter once, on a warm day, and found the bees working fresh bouquets at a nearby cemetery. Some of the low creeping varieties of the mint family will bloom late in the fall, and must be quite frost resistant, as they will be blooming again as soon as snow is off. Henbit has a deep orange pollen. Around here (in SC) I've seen anise hyssop bloom in a warm spell in late fall, and again very early in spring. Wild mustard will bloom all winter here, but its pollen is pale yellow. Alder will bloom in midwinter, though its pollen is likewise pale. I don't know if it ever blooms in fall. A warm Indian summer in late fall can sometimes make apples and pears have a spotty fall bloom. If you can spot the bees at the flower, you then have learned something of use when you see the bees at the hive entrance, as the color of the pollen will give you clues as to what the bees are working. I can often tell to the day, when bees start working a certain flower. Dave The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 13:06:36 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Riach Subject: Wasp saliva superfuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Large Japanese Hornet adult is "fuelled" completely from the sugary substance it gets from the grubs - adult brings grubs protein rich meat and grub provides adult with high energy fuel in return. The reason the Japanese were interested in this substance was that it was not only rich in energy but had substances which allowed muscles to utilise(convert into power) the energy at a much higher rate than normal sugars. I believe the first experiments were carried out on mice. It doesn't sound like an easy gathering process - each hornet grub has to be induced to provide the substance by "tickling" it's mouth. I believe these hornets are quite rapacious honeybee killers and although the native Japanese bees can handle them (provided the colony is strong enough) using a thermal smothering tecknique, European honeybee colonies are destroyed quite easily. Alan Riach Edinburgh, Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 09:45:17 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Screened Bottom Boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/22/00 9:18:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA writes: > > The quarter inch mesh allows robbing to take place through the screen > and the area is so large that small hives cannot defend themselves. > You can use 2 layers offset slightly to accomplish the same thing. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 08:56:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: Screened Bottom Boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have tried different sizes from the window stainless screen, black plastic window screen, 1/8 inch, 1/4 inch, and the metal queen extruders. Small Hive beetles, and wax moth larvae will clog up on the screens and return to the brood area. If the 1/4 inch or the queen extruders are used the bees will remove and are able to protect the brood area. The debree from the small hive beetles will clog the Queen extruders faster than the 1/4 inch. If you use the side 3/4 inch drill holes Drone and workers with beetle larvae will keep the hive healthy. The hive with the 1/4 inch wire will go thur the small hive beetle attach and not swarm. They will remove and rebuild. Weak but not lost. Michael Housel natural without chemical for pure natural honey. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:02:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Joseph A. Clark" Subject: Re: wasp saliva In-Reply-To: <200010201201.IAA13727@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:58 PM 10/19/00 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, > > I have just heard a radio interview with some guy who has discovered a >new product that he claims is made from wasp saliva in Japan. Apparently >an athlete at the recent Sydney Olympics won her race after drinking this >stuff. Can anyone tell me more about this? Regards, Ted Ted, Sorry it took so long to dig up the article, but the gist of it reads: Marathoner Naoko Takahashi, the first Japanese woman to win an Olympic gold medal drinks a liquid made from a secretion of the larvae of 1-1/2 inch long yellow hornets called "suzumebachi" or "sparrow bees". Takashi Abe, a researcher at the Institute of Physical and Chemical Research near Tokyo, found 5 years ago that mice fed the extract were able to swim continuously for 150 minutes compared to 100 minutes for the control group (those mice without the drink). In Japan, the drink is called Vaam, one of many sold in Japan which claim to restore energy after a hard day of work, or a hard night of drinking. Ms. Takahashi passed her drug tests in Sydney after the marathon, so the gold medal was awarded to her. I'm not sure I'm that desperate for an energy drink that I'd resort to "sparrow bee larvae". I'll stick to coffee! Joe Joseph A. Clark ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:24:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Honeybees can Read!!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone read their latest issue of Bee Culture? Look at the Mailbox section and a letter from a chap in California mentions a Belgian study of Honeybees. His letter describes how scientists, using an electron microscope found systematic etchings on the bottom of honeycomb cells. At first they thought these marks were random, but after entering them into a super computer and comparing them from many other hives, have identified an alphabet! If anyone else knows more about this, please contact me. I want to validate such an incredible story. Jean-Francois Lariviere BeeHealthy Farms, Inc. beehealthy@aol.com NY NY 10025 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:09:28 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: The Honeybees of the British Isles In-Reply-To: <200010202329.TAA11663@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200010202329.TAA11663@listserv.albany.edu>, James Kilty writes quoting albert knight's email >Recently the work by Dr. Bo Vest >Pedersen at Copenhagen University has shown that there are bees here in >Britain and Ireland with identical morphometry (correction by James - dna >studies in addition to morphometry) to the Apis mellifera >mellifera bees of Tasmania. Whoops - in my hasty zeal, I made an inappropriate correction - albert knight's reference was correct and to earlier work on Tasmanian and British Isles bees - later Bo Vest Pederson and Francis Ratnieks did dna studies on British and Scandinavian bees showing *they* were virtually identical. I have no reference to dna work on Tasmanian bees. I confused the 2 studies. Sorry. -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:50:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: repair of honey tote Hello all, I have got a 275 gallon honey/syrup plastic skid tote with a small 3/8 hole in the lower third of the heavy plastic. Repair from the inside does not seem possible. I have thought of using a fiberglass patch. Thanks for advice in advance. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:58:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Honeybees can Read!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean-Francois Lariviere wrote: > Look at the Mailbox section and a letter from a chap in California mentions a > Belgian study of Honeybees. > His letter describes how scientists, using an electron microscope found > systematic etchings on the bottom of honeycomb cells. It appears to be a light-hearted dig at those who do not accept the dance language of bees as true. Don't worry. They cannot read yet. The letter was meant to be a joke. But I am thinking of putting spittoons in my hives, based on the articles on wasp spit. Another value-added product. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:17:16 +1100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Julian O'Dea Subject: Re: Honeybees can Read!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" For an argument that honeybees cannot communicate symbolically, see: http://naturalscience.com/ns/articles/01-13/ns_jdo.html Julian O'Dea Canberra, Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 18:14:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Kim Flottum, Editor Bee Culture" Subject: Honey bees can NOT read... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With tounge planted firmly in cheek, Joe Traynor sent his letter to the Editor in response to the many letters in the journals, and here, regarding a honey bee language. Several years ago we published a story on a race of honey bees that constructed beeswax diving helmets so they could go under water and collect the pollen and nectar from underwater plants. That was published in our April issue (think about it). Joe's, though not in April was in the same vein... Please smile and disregard the story... If you don't, I guess, the joke's on Joe and me. Kim Flottum Editor, Bee Culture Magazine ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:12:32 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Re: Late season pollen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << back yard is very active this afternoon bringing in a dark orange colored pollen. Goldenrod is done, and it is a lighter color than this. >> Could it be from Mumms planted in the neighborhood? I've seen some of my bees working them. Jean-Francois Lariviere BeeHealthy Farms NYC NY ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 17:09:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: Re: Honeybees can Read!!!! In-Reply-To: <200010222025.QAA25400@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > His letter describes how scientists, using an electron microscope found > systematic etchings on the bottom of honeycomb cells. At first they thought > these marks were random, but after entering them into a super computer and > comparing them from many other hives, have identified an alphabet! These are remarkable findings! You need to include a bit more of the article for a fuller appreciation. "Wenner's work has been ignored or questioned by many in the scientific community but recent studies should put an end to the controversy." "Needless to say, scientists are very excited about these latest discoveries which should put an end to the language controversy for all time. Significantly, Wenner has been noticeably silent on these new findings." What a hoot! Great letter from Joe Traynor. I about fell over laughing with this one. And yet the controversy won't die. Last night at our annual beekeeping association banquet, Gene Killion had the new Honey Bee Trading Cards for sale that were prepared by the University of Nebraska Cooperative Extension Service. After thumbing through the deck of cards I came across one titled "Waggle Dance." The standard figure eight drawing was on the front of the card showing "the dance" and on the back is a description of the dance language. It reads: "Honey bees communicate the location of resources by a symbolic dance language. The dance language was first explained by Professor Karl von Frisch who received a Nobel prize for his work. This card shows the waggle dance. It tells other bees the distance, direction, and odor of a resource. Honey bees can give precise directions to a field of flowers that is two miles from the hive! Could you give precise directions to a field that is two miles from where you are standing?" It amazes me that in light of all the published research done by Wenner and others, giving us ample evidence that odor is the key element here, "we" continue to teach a new generation of half truths. At the very least, common sense would dictate that one should mention there is evidence to the contrary of von Frisch's ideas or that a controversy even exists over this issue. I would expect a better representation of the "dance language" than what was given. Some things never want to change. Regards, Barry ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:07:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Late season pollen On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 , Coleene E. Davidson wrote: >I live in central lower Michigan. ... The hive in my back yard is very active this >afternoon bringing in a dark orange colored pollen. Goldenrod is done, and it is a >lighter color than this. Does anyone have any idea what they are getting it from. I would say that the pollen in question is most likely from the late asters (frost asters) still blooming in Michigan. New England asters are still blooming as well. In my garden I have straw flowers in bloom which are very attractive to bees, as are marigolds at this time of the year. All of these have a dark yellow pollen. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:34:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C.R. Crowell" Subject: Re: Using Bees to Clean Equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After extracting, and having made an effort to recover as much of the honey as I can from the barrel of my extractor, I have been of the habit of letting the bees "clean it up." However, I have noticed in the past that too many of them get wetted down with honey on the surface of the extractor and don't make it home again. This year I put some coarse wood shavings in there to give them drier surfaces to land on, and they seemed to suffer much fewer casualties. I wonder it anyone else has come with a solution for this? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:28:22 +0000 Reply-To: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: IBRA Subject: IBRA web address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The IBRA web pages have been updated recently. You may find that your bookmarked address no longer works. This is because I had to rename our homepage file from index.html to a new name - index.shtml (technical reasons to do with the Cardiff server and includes). Please reset your bookmarks to: www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/ =================================================== Dr Pamela Munn, Deputy Director and Editor International Bee Research Association 18 North Road, Cardiff CF10 3DT, UK Tel: (+44) 29 20 372409 Fax: (+44) 29 20 665522 Email: munnpa@cf.ac.uk IBRA WWW pages: http://www.cf.ac.uk/ibra =================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:57:40 -0700 Reply-To: beekeeper82@yahoo.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carm Subject: Calafornia beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, I have recently moved from Ontario, Canada, to near Sacramento, Calafornia. Is there anyone on this list who can be of help in helping me get some bees going here? I know how to do it in Ontario, but weather and everything here is so different! I guess what I need most is some sort of guide to weather and the way it affects the jobs that the beekeeper has. Sorof like when the first flowers come out, when honey supers normally go on, when they come off, when and if you prepare for winter, etc. And, what do you think is the best spot to get bee supplies here? They certainly is enough businesses to choose from. Thanks for the help in advance! Sincerely, Carm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:42:29 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: repair of honey tote In-Reply-To: <200010222218.SAA27647@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This type of thing can be repaired with a bolt and washers if you can manage to get the bolt through from the inside using the top access hole and a stick or wire with something sticky on it. Place a washer and rubber or plastic disk on it on the bolt first. Then just use a washer and nut on the outside. allen --- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:11:51 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Housel Subject: Pyramid at the cell base MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for information on the pyramid at the cell base. Will bees always work in the pyramid with wax in cell formation? Does it help in evaporation? Is it just engineering structural strength? Michael Housel ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:52:54 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Pyramid at the cell base MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/23/00 9:32:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Orlandobee@AOL.COM writes: > I am looking for information on the pyramid at the cell base I believe it is just efficient use of materials. The "pyramid" forms 1/3 of the base of 3 cells on the other side of the comb. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:45:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Churchill Subject: Re: Pyramid at the cell base In-Reply-To: <200010231358.JAA22888@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:52 AM 10/23/00 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 10/23/00 9:32:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >Orlandobee@AOL.COM writes: > >> I am looking for information on the pyramid at the cell base >I believe it is just efficient use of materials. The "pyramid" forms 1/3 of >the base of 3 cells on the other side of the comb. There was an interesting article, "The Honeycomb Conjecture" in the July 24, 1999 "Science News" (Vol 156, Issue 4; pp 60-61) regarding studies about the shape of honeycomb. In summary (based on my memory of the article), the hexagon is the most efficient means of covering a 2-dimensional area with a regular, repeating pattern. This is why honeycomb cells are hexagonal in cross section. The pyramidal shape for the botton is actually _not_ the most effecient shape. There is another pattern which uses small rhombus's at the corners that actually is slightly "better" - at least mathamatically. Studies using soap films between two plates (blowing uniform bubbles in a double layer between two sheets of glass) showed that the pyramid/rhombus layout was achieved. As they thickened the density of the soap film, however, the bubbles switched to the pyramid configuration that bees use. They conjectured that there is a benefit to the pyramidal shape for thicker substances. Sorry this description is not clearer - a picture is worth a thousand words. The article is no longer available for free, but can be purchased for $2.50 US. For a copy, visit http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sciencenews/ and search for "bees and honeybomb". Mike Mike Churchill, Beginning Beekeeper | What's the buzz all about? mike.churchill@netmechanic.com http://www.netmechanic.com - Power Tools for Your Web Site Link and HTML testing, Server Reliability Testing, Website Promotion Tools ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:55:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Screened bottom boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott asks, "Why wouldn't 4 mesh (1/4") squares work?" In addition to possible robbing problems, one would never be able to move a hive, with the bottom board, as the bees could get through. 1/8 inch mesh is available from Betterbee (800-632-3379) and perhaps some other suppliers. If you have a good hardware store serving the farm community, they should also have it or be able to tell you a place nearby. Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:01:15 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Pyramid at the cell base In-Reply-To: <200010231450.KAA24162@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Michael Churchill wrote: In summary (based on my memory of the article), the hexagon is the most efficient means of covering a 2-dimensional area with a regular, repeating pattern. This is why honeycomb cells are hexagonal in cross section. Hi Michael: It is tempting to say that bees make their cells hexagonal because that is the most efficient way to do it, but I don't believe that is the case. I think they make a bunch of cells simultaneously and the bees working on one cell pushing against the bees working on adjacent cells give a hexagon by default. When making queen cells there are no competing cell builders and there is no hexagon. I don't know much about bumble bees, but when their queen makes her first "honey pots" and there are no competing constructors the results are probably not hexagons. Any bumble bee experts out there? Other features of the hive probably have a prosaic origin as well. If a bee can just barely get into a space she probably can't make much of a comb there. One expects "bee space" to be determined by the size of the bee. The size of cells built without foundation is likely to be determined by the size of the worker as well. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:31:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: wasp saliva MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by tdixon@SD70.BC.CA to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove MIME formatting. > ------- Original message (ID=333D15C1) (61 lines) --------- > > From: Tony Dixon > To: "'BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu'" > Subject: wasp saliva > Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 19:54:34 -0700 > > 'Vespa Sport Drink' is the wasp saliva based beverage for > athletes who want the wasp saliva advantage. It seems quite > popular with professional hockey players. > > The company has an interesting web site with news articles > both pro and con > at: http://www.vespapower.com > > Tony Dixon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:01:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: repair of honey tote MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by Jkeim@WENGER.COM to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. > ------------ Original message (ID=C60EB2E4) (45 lines) -------------- > From: John Keim > To: "'Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology'" > > Subject: RE: repair of honey tote > Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:54:20 -0500 > > If access from the inside is not possible, or the bolt turns > and is unable > to be tightened, he could cut a small patch of > rubber (possibly an intertube), place over the hole, then use a > .25" pop rivet to push the > rubber inside, while allowing the > material thickness of the rubber to seal the inside diameter. > This would allow the rivet to seal both surfaces of the hole as > it is drawn. Possibly some type of sealant could be used in > conjunction for more assurance of a seal. > > John Keim > Keim Apiaries > Fairview, Kansas ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:02:55 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Screened bottom boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ace hardware has 1/8 mesh in their supply chain, I paid a little more for mine than I would have from the beekeeping catalog but the hardware is one of my customers. Ace members are pretty good about ordering things. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:20:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Terence Golla Subject: Concerning www.LocalHoneyForSale.com My name is Terence Golla. I live in Coweta, Oklahoma (outside of Tulsa, OK). I'm a hobbyist beekeeper. I'm also Vice President of NEOBA (Northeast Oklahoma Beekeepers Association). For a living I'm an Internet Stratigest with my own business (http://www.CimarronRavine.com). The reason I tell you these thing is that I've recently been the topic of discuss on this e-mail list along with a Web site I manage called http://www.LocalHoneyForSale.com. As such, I would like to clear up some of the confusion. Let's start with the unsolicited e-mail. Yes, I have sent many a simple introduction to our site. The e-mail addresses have been found while browsing other beekeeping related sites. This is a very simple way to let others know about the site and it's benefits. We are not subscribing to large Spam list, we are not out capturing e-mail list from list servers, etc. It's less dramatic than this. I browse beekeeping site reading information, find an e-mail address and send an introduction through our web software. Our system is extremely sophisticated and PREVENTS anyone having received an introduction from receiving another such e-mail. This is all part of our effort to prevent Spam. We don't sell these e-mail addresses or any member information. This is against all of our policies and my scruples. We do sell advertising for which you may have guessed can be targeted at those buying local honey and beekeepers. If you find this commercialistic, I'm sorry. I honestly don't expect to make a proffit on the site, but I will not appoligize for trying to support this sites cost for monthly hosting and site development. It's currently cost $50 per month to host the site and we estimate that development cost are over $20,000. So for the inconvience of a banner ad or advertising text in the newsletter you get a great FREE service. Not to mention the monthly contest with great prizes! We are currently limited to North America. The sites development has a two year plan and we may go global but that requires multiple languages, etc. We just don't have the staff or money right now. On the flip side we have a targeted audience and the top Internet inabled population in the world. Beyond these items it appears that I would and will improve the site by giving it a more personal touch. I do appolige for the comment about providing social security numbers. What a mistake! The orginal policy statement came for an extremely secure site (banking/credit approval). Developers are not the brightest people when it comes to common sense and I simply missed this when proofing the site. We don't want you social security number! In fact, you can hide your address and phone number from appearing in any search results. And we never give out your e-mail address. We simple forward any messages to you. I understand that the Internet is a scary thing and that paranoia on the Web often runs rampant. I do appreciate those who commented about contacting us for more information. Good, honest people do run this site and I hope you will check it out. We are always looking for ways to improve the site and your comments are always welcome. Sincerely, Terence Golla Local Honey For Sale http://www.LocalHoneyForSale.com Reference E-mails... 033086 00/09/2914:1637unsolicitated email 033087 00/09/2914:2126Re: unsolicitated email 033088 00/09/2915:1340Re: unsolicitated email 033089 00/09/2917:0323localhoneyforsale 033090 00/09/2917:3366Re: unsolicitated email 033109 00/10/0118:5467Re: localhoneyforsale 033111 00/10/0209:1354Re: unsolicitated email and Beekeeping Classified Ads ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:49:56 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Honey, labeling, nutrition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently received a solicitation from something called the Nutrition Action Newsletter. It bills itself as a sort of Consumer Reports focusing on foods. A marketing insert touts 10 of their most "shocking" revelations, and lists them. Top of the list No. 1: Quaker 100% Natural Oats & Honey Granola The write-up begins rhetorically with this: "Does Mother Nature want you eating half a cup of oats coated with three teaspoons of sugar laden with more artery clogging fat than you'd get in a McDonald's hamburger?" I've been looking for this product on my local store shelves to answer the following question: Does it have any honey in it at all? I gather from previous threads about labels that you must truthfully represent what the contents are of your product, but then I read in another part of the Nutrition Action material about this: "Although Aunt Jemima Blueberry Waffles, judging from the picture on the box, appear to contain real blueberries, in fact the product contains only "blueberry bits" made of sugar, fat, artificial flavor and color." Aren't the manufacturers here in violation of the U.S. label laws? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:36:25 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: repair of honey tote MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > > This type of thing can be repaired with a bolt and washers if you can manage to > get the bolt through from the inside using the top access hole. Hello Allen, I had another reply by direct email about a special bolt with rubber made for such a purpose and sold by Home depot. The problem with my tank is not being able to reach to inside to install. I am going to show the repair complete with pictures in Gleanings if accepted. I thank all those which have sent direct emails with possible solutions and welcome all others so i can list all possible solutions in the article. I found there are many of these plastic totes needing repair. Many of you remember my "refrigerator warming box "post . Gleanings is doing a article on the warming box (complete with pictures) in the December issue. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:06:30 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: huestis Subject: egyptian bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Can someone on the list tell me if it is true that Egyptian bees use no = propolise? Why isn't this race used in hybrid stock? What other characteristics = does this race have that they aren't used commercially. Any info would = be appreciated. Clayton Huestis Crown Point, NY ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:25:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C.R. Crowell" Subject: Re: FW: repair of honey tote MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It might be too late, but there is a rubber plug device used for oil pans when the pan's metal plug won't work because the threads are stripped. It looks like a rubber baby bottle nipple, and a special tool is inserted inside it to cause it to become distended. It is then inserted into the oil pan opening, whereby the bottom flange rests against the oil pan itself. The tool is removed, and the plug gets shorter and "fatter", engaging the sides of the hole. The same tool must be used to remove the plug when the oil is to be changed next. These items were not expensive, and are I believe are not that rare, since nowadays it is more common for cars to have cast aluminum oil pans that have threads that strip easily. They also work with fairly large (5/8 inch) openings, but the opening must be close to circular. It's a short cut to either replacing the pan or re-welding it to replace the blown threads. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:01:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: N Gravel Subject: Re: Pyramid at the cell base MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Michael, I am no expert or scientist, but I think the pyramid is mainly a result of how the bottom of the cell meets with the bottoms of the cells on the other side of the comb. If you look at a natural comb in the light you'll see that the three sides of the hexagon meet right in the middle of the cell on the opposite side witch create the pyramid but as you look toward the sides of the comb, you'll see different shapes probably not as structurally (that's a tough one to say ) strong. Hope this helps. Normand ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:05:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Honey, labeling, nutrition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" John Mitchell asks: > Aren't the manufacturers here in violation of the U.S. label laws? I'm winging it here, I have not referenced any legal documents. My understanding is that manufacturers can pretty much put anything on the box that they want. The labeling laws kick in under the list of ingredients, which I can no longer read with my new glasses. Optomotrist recommended bifocals, but in a fit of denial (bifocals are for old farts) I passed. But I digress. It is the list of ingredients that must tell the truth of what's in the product, listing first the most prominent ingredient, followed in succession down to the least prominent ingredient. I don't recall if it's by volume or by weight ;-) Most products which prominently feature HONEY on the box usually have honey towards the tail end of the ingredients list after sugar and/or corn sweeteners. Fat content can be found in the ntritional value label. Funny how the box advertising vs. ingredient/nutritional value list can allow such fuzzyness when honey label laws are so stringent. Aaron Morris - thinking the playing fiels is not level. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:32:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Hamilton Subject: no yearly treatments for AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I would like to start some discussion of Marla Spivik's article in ABJ. She advocates periodic replacing frames and not using prophylactic treatments with Terramycin. As I have been replacing 2 frames per box per year and have requeened most hives with Minn-Hygenic queens, it seems to make sense for me to try this to preventing Terra resistant AFB from developing. Comments? Dave ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 04:52:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: Egyptian Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> Apparently this is so, and Brother Adam used this bee in order to minimise propolis production in his Buckfast strain. The Egyptian bee is described as 'glowing orange' in colour and extremely hairy, but that is all the information I have to hand. Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:49:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: huestis Subject: new world carniolan breeders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Could someone tell me if there any NWC breeders in the northeast? Names = and phone #'s would be nice. If not any breeders from around the = country would be welcome. Thanks. Clayton Huestis ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:32:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Local Honey for Sale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think it was me who started the discussion about a solicitation several of us received to list/advertise on this web site. Several of us commented about the request that social security numbers be provided, the lack of a person's name and contact information, and what seemed to be an obvious attempt to collect email addresses and possibly be subject to Spam. Yesterday, someone telephoned me to also solicit such a listing. By asking a few questions I was able to reasonably determine that he was talking about the same web site, and told him of Bee-L's existence and of our discussion. Obviously, he then joined the list and did a search for the relevant discussions. It sounds as if he is sincere about addressing the issues that concerned several of us and presumably one could verify his membership in the beekeeping organizations listed. Personally, I would like to see those changes before considering a listing on the web site. Even then, I will probably not join. I was also pleased to see that he apparently did not pick up my email address from the Bee-L list. Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:44:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: egyptian bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Clayton, The Egyptian bee is an African bee identified as apis mellifera lamarckii. Ruttner places it in the same group of AFRICANIZED bees that we don't want in the US, e. g. a. m. scutellata, a. m. adansonii, and a. m. capensis (which we surely don't want). If you are trying to avoid propolis, the "true" Carniolan makes little or no propolis. Unfortunately, the Carniolan stock in Austria is related to the CAUCASIAN race and hence propolizes heavily; and that is the stock used by Tom Rinderer to create the YUGO ARS C1 hybrid - a bad mistake by my standards. The New World Carniolan, developed by Sue Cobey, is almost propolis free. However, field breeding often changes that. FORGET EGYPTIAN bees! I hope I have helped. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:30:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Egyptian Bees Comments: cc: buzzybee@CAPITAL.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cross-posted for information/discussion purposes only from http://www.latimes.com/editions/orange/ocnews/20001019/t000099802.html Thursday, October 19, 2000 Bees That Stung Woman Were Domestic Genetic tests rule out Africanized swarm in vicious attack on Lake Forest senior, county entomologist says. By H.G. REZA Genetic tests showed it was domestic, not Africanized, honeybees that attacked a 77-year-old Lake Forest woman who was hospitalized for a week earlier this month after she was stung hundreds of times. Nick Nisson, entomologist at the Orange County agricultural commissioner's office, said DNA tests showed the bees that attacked Jackie Wright were a hybrid of a species that originated in Egypt. "This hybrid has been around here for over a century," Nisson said. Africanized bees can be extremely belligerent and, in some cases, kill humans and animals when provoked. Wright, a resident of Freedom Village, an apartment complex for seniors, was sitting in the garden Oct. 1 when workers removed a side panel from a building at the complex, disturbing a colony of bees. The bees swarmed around Wright and began stinging her as she ran to the driveway. Orange County Fire Authority officials said that paramedics found hundreds of bees flying around Wright when they arrived. It was estimated that she was stung between 300 and 500 times. She was transported to Saddleback Memorial Medical Center in Laguna Hills, where she was treated for an allergic reaction until her release Oct. 9. Copyright 2000 Los Angeles Times ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:36:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Honey, labeling, nutrition In-Reply-To: <200010241155.HAA22083@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I digress. It is the list of ingredients that must tell the truth of what's > in the product, listing first the most prominent ingredient, followed in > succession down to the least prominent ingredient.... > Most products which prominently feature HONEY on > the box usually have honey towards the tail end of the ingredients list > after sugar and/or corn sweeteners. Honey is often used as a flavouring ingredient and as such is featured prominently in the name, but is near the end of the ingredients. This is very much like garlic or pepper. A product named " Garlic Whatever" seldom will have more than a little garlic. One amazing example I have in my fridge is a bottle of "Garlic Caesar" salad dressing described on the label as " A savoury blend of fresh garlic, cider vinegar, pure extra virgin olive oil, Regganio, Parmesan, and Romano cheeses, capers and anchovies". The ingredients list, however reveals that the predominant oil (and main constituent) is canola -- which is not even mentioned in the main panel. This is legal, but dishonest. Our product's good name is being used to boost products that contain little of it. allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:52:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: NWC's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Clayton wondered about breeders of the New World Carnolians. Clayton, New World Carnolian is a registered trademark for a specific strain of bees developed by Sue Cobey. In addition to herself, queens are only available from four US breeders, see http://iris.biosci.ohio-state.edu/honeybee/breeding/NWC.html. (There is a lot more worth seeing on this web site.) That said, there are a number of good breeders of carnolian strains in the Northeast. Most are in Canada, but one is not too far from you. He is Kirk Webster, Box 381, Middlebury, VT 05753. 802-758-2501. He always sells out, so nucs should be ordered now, and queens no later than January 31. If you need early queens you are pretty much limited to those breeders in California. If you can wait until June or July, you might want to try stock from the Northeast, even though they are not NWC's. Personally, I order 40 or so queens from Calif. to arrive late April and then split my later orders between the breeders in the Northeast and California. In general, I think the Calif. NWC's are more gentle, and overwinter just as well, compared to the Northeast carnolian queens. However, mid-summer queens from the Northeast seem to be accepted better than those from Calif., where mid-summer temperatures are in the 100's for days on end! Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:29:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Stevens Subject: honey labelling in products MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It has long been my contention that there is nothing more positive that the National Honey Board could do for the beekeepers it purportedly represents than clean up the false advertizing by major corporations of honey as an ingredient Simply get an FDA ruling that any concoction using honey in in its name or in its advertizing must have honey as its primary sweetener. Imagine the wool board tolerating a sweater with a miniscule amount of wool in it being advertized as a wool sweater. My honey board representative, Mr. Hackenberg told me they wouldn't want to do that because it would cut down on the sale of industrial honey because many companies simply wouldn't want to raise their prices to incorporate a larger percentage of a more expensive sweetener like honey. My contention is that if their were fewer falsely advertized honey products, and more genuine honey products, it might actually result in more honey being used. It certainly would enhance honey's reputation. I suspect that the real reason the honey board is not interested in standards for honey use in a product is that most industrial honey is imported and that is where they get the bulk of their revenues to pay their own salaries. Bob Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:11:23 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Eat (and drink) More Honey In-Reply-To: <200010241735.NAA05201@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There would be a worldwide shortage of honey if North Americans (not to mention the rest of the world) simply used one kg of honey each a year. People on average eat very little honey, but if I remember correctly, they eat 100 pounds plus of sugar annually. A lot of sugar is used in beverages. * Imagine if someone decided to promote a sports drink based on honey -- and used honey only as the sweetener -- and the drink became popular! * Think of the amount of beer and wine that people consume. A mere 1% of that market going over to mead -- which in my opinion can be a superior beverage -- would create shortages. But the real sleeper product IMO, is PANCAKE SYRUP. Pancake syrup outsells honey in every store every day, yet a very nice pancake syrup -- better than any I've tasted -- can be made by watering down pure honey to the right consistency. Why we do not promote these products is beyond me. We have time and energy to spent infighting, cutting prices, denigrating the other beekeeper's product and trying to block international trade, but we don't have the time and energy to strongly promote these honey uses. What is the matter with us? allen PS If you are going to make some syrup -- and I suggest you do (and report back to me if you don't think it is GREAT! -- remember that honey syrup must be pasteurised or have sodium benzoate or sorbate added to prevent fermentation if it is to be stored for long unrefrigerated or to be distributed commercially. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:30:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Churchill Subject: Re: Honey, labeling, nutrition In-Reply-To: <200010232319.TAA09399@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:49 PM 10/23/00 -0400, you wrote: >The write-up begins rhetorically with this: "Does Mother Nature want you >eating half a cup of oats coated with three teaspoons of sugar laden with >more artery clogging fat than you'd get in a McDonald's hamburger?" >I've been looking for this product on my local store shelves to answer the >following question: Does it have any honey in it at all? Here's the label info for "Nature Valley Oat's 'N Honey Crunchy Granola Bars". Honey is listed after sugar, but before brown sugar syrup. These aren't the exact brand you mentioned, but I had one of these in my desk at work (they're pretty tasty, too). Ingredients: Whole grain rolled oats sugar canola oil crisp rice (rice flour, sugar, malt, salt) honey soy protien brown sugar syrup salt soy lecithin baking soda natural flavor almond flour peanut flour CONTAINS SOY, ALMOND AND PEANUT INGREDIENTS Two bars (42 grams) have 180 Calories, 11 grams of sugars, and only 6 grams of fat (0.5 g Saturated fat), so are much less than a McDonalds hamburger (9g fat, 3.5 Sat. fat) or a Quarter Pounder with cheese (30g Fat, 13 g Sat. fat). I am unsure of how many grams there are in a teaspoon of honey (or sugar), but the 11 grams represents about 1/4 of the total mass of the bars. IHTH. Mike Churchill, Beginning Beekeeper | What's the buzz all about? mike.churchill@netmechanic.com http://www.netmechanic.com - Power Tools for Your Web Site Link and HTML testing, Server Reliability Testing, Website Promotion Tools ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:42:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey What could you call pancake syrup made from watered down pasteurized and or preserved honey? I don't think you could call it "honey syrup" but maybe you could. I'm sure you could call it "pancake syrup" or "waffle syrup" but what would be a good, accurate, and lawful name for it that included the word "honey"? It would be nice to be able to call it "honey pancake syrup". My family and I for many years have used honey on waffles. We never watered it down, but we heated it to make it runny. That kept the waffles warmer too so they tasted better. Now that I think about it, I did make some homemade syrup from brown sugar, water, and lots of honey (added a little maple flavoring too) and that worked pretty good. We kept it in the refrigerator and "pasteurized" it before each use so it wouldn't chill the waffles. Back to the name: would it be legal to call the syrup "honey whatever" as long as you just didn't call it "honey"? Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:58:37 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Organization: Oregon VOS Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey In-Reply-To: <200010241844.OAA08857@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I dunno folks, but manufacturing something out of a nearly perfect natural resource seems full of hard work and red tape. In my book, although I really do like Pure Maple Syrup, Honey as it comes out of the bottle, comb, extractor, hive is already a pretty good waffle or pancake dressing. I'm no marketing whiz, but I'll wager just packaging it in a traditional pancake syrup bottle (narrow neck more convenient for pouring) and labeling it "Pure Honey for Pancakes and Waffles" would do the trick. We could even add "Nature's perfect natural syrup." And for the Green Market, "not a single cord of wood used in processing." On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Musashi wrote: > What could you call pancake syrup made from watered down pasteurized and > or preserved honey? --------------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, fly tying benches | leave our kids a decent place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:40:14 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You asked why we promote so many "bad" things rather than the "good" things. Why are there innumerable movies about crime and crime LORDS like Al Capone, Bonnie & Clyde, The Mafia, etc; but rarely anything about Jesus Christ? It is easier to make headlines and becoming "known" by "punching someone in the nose" than it is shaking hands. SAD COMMENTARY! George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:58:04 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey In-Reply-To: <200010242038.QAA12752@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I dunno folks, but manufacturing something out of a nearly perfect natural > resource seems full of hard work and red tape. What is interesting is that no one so far yet has said "Wow! What great idea. I tried it and I'm going to propose this to my co-op or start taking it to the farmer's market." Maybe I'll have to wait until after breakfast tomorrow when some people on the list have actually tried honey thinned to commercial pancake syrup consistency. I'd sure like to hear from anyone who has actually tried my idea and I sure do hope some people actually do get around to making syrup just the way I suggest and get back to the list about their experience. Honey thinned to syrup is NOT like thick honey at all when applied to pancakes. The taste and effect is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT from anything you have ever tried. You are in for a HUGE surprise. Try it, then tell me it isn't. Or else tell everyone the surprise part of it that I have so far held back. It doesn't take much water to thin the honey to a syrup, so high moisture honey might be just fine as it is. I suspect, though, that that around 25% to 30% moisture would be ideal for most tastes. People are always wondering what to do with high moisture honey, we'll here's your answer. Just heat it to 125 degrees F for four hours and package it into sterile, sealed containers or keep it refrigerated -- or frozen -- if you don't pasteurise it. (Or thin it some more to make a honey 'power drink' or add yeast and make mead). Anyhow, thinned honey is much more like the syrups that most people are accustomed to and are therefore likely to try, then adopt. People have had a chance to use full-strength honey on pancakes and waffles and it just hasn't been a huge runaway hit like maple syrup, so I suspect that it never will be. Don't forget that cars were initially made to look like buggies so that they could gain public acceptance. Maybe we have to resemble the familiar popular syrups in viscosity and packaging to gain acceptance. > seems full of hard work and red tape. What worthwhile project isn't? Another ingredient required to develop a new product is cash. Many new products fail, yet it seems to me that if the co-ops have the financial depth and the reach. If one or more were to package a pure honey syrup and distribute it -- perhaps free initially -- (with the right 'natural' spin) to pancake restaurant chains that we would suddenly have a huge new market. (Where *is* that Honey Board we all pay a toll to)? > In my book, although I really do like Pure Maple Syrup, Honey as it comes > out of the bottle, comb, extractor, hive is already a pretty good waffle > or pancake dressing. How many people can buy that, and for how much of the year? And -- trust me -- honey syrup, made right, from good honey, will make you forget about maple syrup. > I'm no marketing whiz, but I'll wager just packaging it in a traditional > pancake syrup bottle (narrow neck more convenient for pouring) and > labelling it "Pure Honey for Pancakes and Waffles" would do the trick. Might work with yours, but mine is just too thick for most people, including me. So is the product we market from the co-ops as Number One, even if it is 18.6% moisture. > We could even add "Nature's perfect natural syrup." And for the Green > Market, "not a single cord of wood used in processing." Good idea. Now you are talking. Seems to me the time is right for this dyn-O-mite product. Let's (somebody) do it! allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:30:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HStarJE@AOL.COM Subject: Jackson Horizontal Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone use the "Jackson Horizontal Hive"? I am planning to build some modified versions this winter and use them experimentally next spring. I would like information about advantages/disadvantages and management techniques. Cesar Flores Colorado USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:03:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: eat(and drink)more honey Hello all, We have got a beekeeper in Missouri selling the honey syrup made in about the same way as Allen talks about. Her operation sells a plain honey syrup and three flavored syrups. The syrups have been on the market for about six years. They were in Wal mart stores for a short time. She also tried flavored creamed honey. Both are still made but have never really taken off. Both lost their self space at Wal mart due to low sales. Missouri has a "Agri-Missouri" matching funds program. Perfect for new products. "Agri-Missouri" was used to pay half on the custom labels and start up costs. Maybe your state or country has a similar program. The lady beekeeper said she lacked the money needed to really promote the honey syrup product through advertising. The Honey Board might could help. The last time i was in our local Wal mart super center all creamed honey had lost its shelf space. Even Barkmans creamed honey. Barkmans is the largest supplier of honey to Wal mart stores. If you are still reading and have not deleted this post yet i am about to make my point. Other than "pure honey" the market has to be built for creamed honey and syrups. Large packers put the product on the shelves but also have to pull the product if sales drop below a certain level as required by large chains. I on the other hand believe Allen is correct in his belief we need to find new products. A small beekeeper wanting to market a new product the public is not familiar with needs to go to the store and spend time creating a market by giving away samples and promoting the product. Repeat business is what keeps those products on the shelves. A important thing to remember about selling honey is that what ever you are giving samples of is what sells. I can take any one of our products-creamed honey,comb honey,wildflower honey,etc. and start handing out samples and improve sales on the product. Most customers buy from the product they have sampled. A niche could be carved from the above but not by large packers without national promotion. This post is not meant to discourage beekeepers wanting to market honey syrup only add to your information by telling of a beekeepers experiances trying to market honey syrup. Her product does taste wonderful but is three times higher in price than cheap sugar syrup with maple flavoring. My friends at wal mart tell me the cheap imitation maple syrup (made from syrup like we feed to bees ,brown food coloring and imitation maple flavoring) outsells our "pure honey "by huge amounts. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:09:37 -0400 Reply-To: Peter John Keating Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter John Keating Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, talking about honey syrups reminds me of what l encountered in a restaurant the other week. This was an individual serving of "Honey Sauce".This "sauce" was packed as the jams and served with the jams and peanut butter. It resembled honey in viscosity and colour, BUT was labeled Honey Sauce and "Sauce au Miel" (l am in Canada). What could this product be? Is honey so expensive that it has to be added to another syrup and then sold as a sauce? The worst thing was that it was "produced " here in Quebec. Peter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:59:35 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter John Keating said > Greetings, talking about honey syrups reminds me of what l encountered > in a restaurant the other week. This was an individual serving of "Honey > Sauce". Yea that right the honey has been cut with High Fructose Corn Syrup and is cheaper. This is done in Kentucky fried Chicken Chain in America. These industrial giants would be good targets for National honey Board. Walter Patton Beekeeper - Hawaii Tourguide Hawaiian Honey House 100 % Hawaii Honey A Hawaii Beekeepers Bed and Breakfast # 1 Mukai Pl., P.O. Box 430 Papaikou, HI 96781 Ph./Fax. 1-808-964-5401 e-mail HiHoney@HawaiiHoney.Com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:57:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >What could you call pancake syrup made from watered down pasteurized and >or preserved honey? "Honey flavored Syrup" "All Natural Honey Flavored Syrup" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:04:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Becky boehm Subject: Re: repair of honey tote HELLO To repair the polyethelene containers go to the nearby farm store and get a plastic welding kit ( it uses hot air and a plastic welding filler rod). All the farm tanks are made of this material and nothing seems to stick to it, believe me Ive tried epoxy, esters, caulks, and solvent welding,,, then I asked at the farm store where they sell those tanks for water and fertilizer and such and they showed me this kit to use. Hope this helps Al Boehm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 05:46:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > Good idea. Now you are talking. Seems to me the time is right for this > dyn-O-mite product. > > Let's (somebody) do it! > > allen Locally we have a few that sell flavored honey, including maple flavored as syryp. Bill Truesdell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 07:55:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: Jackson Horizontal Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Cesar Flores asks:> > Does anyone use the "Jackson Horizontal Hive"? Well, this is a new one on me. Although I can get the idea from the name, might you be able to offer more of a description of the "Jackson Horizontal Hive"? Thanks in advance, Aaron Morris - thinking I haven't yet seen it all! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 07:36:47 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: eat(and drink)more honey In-Reply-To: <200010250327.XAA23913@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ... she lacked the money needed to really promote the > honey syrup product through advertising. The Honey Board might could help. > The last time i was in our local Wal mart super center all creamed honey had > lost its shelf space... > Other than "pure honey" the market has to be built for creamed honey and > syrups.... Allen is correct in his belief we need to find new products. Thanks Bob. Putting a new product on the mass market can be a tricky thing. It is not just a matter of making something that tastes good. It must be introduced in the right way at the right time. Packaging has to be excellent, then there is more... Just because it did not work one place and one time, does not mean it cannot be a runaway hit in another other. For local markets, the matter is much simpler and the risks are less. The opportunities are there. We made a living selling our honey at farmers markets many years ago, and we found the at the more honey products -- up to about ten -- we had at our tables, the better we did and the better we could differentiate ourselves from any competition. We had a successful mail order business for around twenty years (We sold it last year)and we found the same there, except that there is no limit to products you can offer, if they are at all popular. At any rate the most fundamental thing is to have an excellent product, but whether it succeeds or fails depends on much more than that. The cost of the honey in a syrup is not that much more than the sugar in similar products -- in comparison to selling price -- so that is not really an excuse to dismiss the idea. It *can* work and unless we find ways to sell more honey, we will just spend our time fighting over a market that is spiralling down to zero. The Honey Board was a good idea and seemed to have good results early on, but I don't know if it is doing much nowadays. allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:11:44 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home sweet home Subject: Re: eat(and drink)more honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Allen Dick wrote: . Allen is correct in his belief we need to find new products. I saw a great produkt from China plastic bottle ± 1/2 liter. in the cap/cover/lid (?) a little tank/container (about 4 cc.) with honey, maked of soft plastic. bottle in the cooler, before drinking, open the tank/container, shake, drink!! skol... fresh!!!!! cool!!!!! delicious greeting, jan -- Jan Tempelman Kerkstraat 53 NL 7471 AG Goor xx.31.(0)547.275788 mobile: 06 10719917 http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:34:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dina and Don Hess Subject: Re: FW: Jackson Horizontal Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > Well, this is a new one on me. Although I can get the idea from the name, > might you be able to offer more of a description of the "Jackson Horizontal > Hive"? For others who are curious, the reference I found to the Jackson Horizontal Hive was at Rupert's Honey: http://www.rupertshoney.co.za My impression from their description was that it was essentially a topbar-style hive that utilizes frames with-or-without foundation. They also specify the construction material (corrugated plastic), ventillation (a series of holes drilled near the top edge of the sides), and handles. I don't see anything particularly unique about it, personally. The frames are supposed to allow extraction and re-usage of comb as well as decrease comb attachments to the sides. In pictures of their frames without foundation, the comb isn't attached to anything except the top, thus in that case it's functioning like a standard top-bar hive. With regards to managing such a hive, I would refer anyone interested to Jim Satterfield's site: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm - the most detailed site I've found regarding top-bar hives (if anyone knows of a better, feel free to email me :). To me, top bar hives seem like an excellent approach for the hobbyist who isn't necessarily out to maximize honey production and who wants to learn about bees and working with them... seems more "up close and personal" to me. :) Don Hess ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:31:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Daniels Subject: Joe Latshaw Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Someone was telling me about a line of honeybees being developed by Joe Latshaw of Ohio State University in the U.S.A. which are distinct from the New World Carniolan project directed by Sue Cobey at the same institution. Does anyone know of the Latshaw project or have references for his strain of bees? I am particularly interested in the characteristics being sought in the Latshaw strain compared to those of the NWC strain. Thanks, Bill Daniels ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:06:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave and Judy Subject: Re: Honey, labeling, nutrition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This topic, and also the pancake honey syrup topic, is near to my heart. One of my favorite topics during any type of 'honeybee presentation'. The use of the term "US Grade A" on a label. Turn over the bottle and read the back; or put on those cursed reading glasses and read the small print. You often will find the honey contains imported honey. The use of the term leads the consumer to believe the honey is US honey. Hmmm. We know that the term is used to "describe" the product, not its origins. There may be nothing wrong with the Canadian, or Argentinean honey that is used in these "US Grade A" honey containers. However, I firmly believe, the label is misleading. I often buy honey from other places. Love to compare and taste. But I do so knowingly. Before any presentation I go to a local grocer and buy a couple jars of the "US Grade A" honey. (Yeah, I know supporting what I am attempting to end!) But I offer tastes of my honey, and tastes of the US Grade A. And any other honeys that club members may have brought. And I always point out the origin of the honey on the store bought honeys. I cannot count the number of people who will, as they said, remember to "read the label" the next time they buy honey. (Of course, very few of our customers will ever go the grocer for honey ever again! Ahem!) It is an unfortunate state of affairs that we must now take on the additional task of education of always reading ALL parts of the labels. We already spend oodles of time speaking of bees, the need for more beekeepers, the use of local honey, etc. This year I baked up a batch of good ole homemade biscuits, kept them in a Nesco oven with wet paper towels (to avoid drying out) and aluminum foil between the towels and the biscuits. And kept them steaming hot during the whole evening at the county fair. And offered a bit of biscuit along with the taste of the honey. Perhaps next year pancakes will be added to the list. As with everything else we are attempting to help the public learn about honeybees, I have added "Read the Label". And I am outspoken about it. I will accept the responsibility of teaching my corner of Kentucky, USA. And if we each, everyone of us, accept this responsibility for our local area, we will have solved, or at least enlightened the public, about another area and, hopefully, increased the consumption of honey. Not an easy, nor innovative, solution. But one that I can afford to do. While we wait for National Honey Boards to do their share. Judy in Kentucky, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:31:14 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Juderon Subject: Flavoured honey In-Reply-To: <200010251201.IAA00561@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Coffee crystals are simply large crystals of refined sugar with added artificial colouring to make them look like raw sugar. That a con/fraud if ever there was one. When 'flavours' are added to products you are emulating the fraud and downgrading the value of 'natural' honey. 'Natural' is your major point of difference because refined sugar/corn syrup with 'flavour' can be made to look and taste like anything. Maple syrup is good for you. It has anti oxidants, minerals, etc. refined sugar and corn syrup with maple flavour might pass the 'pocket test' ($) and the 'Taste test" but does it add value to well being? Me thinks not. I was at an expo last week and they had herb flavoured honeys produced by bees collecting nectar from real herbs. Low volume, but very high margin. For an industry you have to think big because you have heaps of bulk honey to sell. For individual honey producers the smart money is on thinking small/niche -- that where the big margins are. I did an economic impact report for the NZ bee industry recently (bee products sold as dietary supplements.) what blew me away was how much bee product including honey and bee pollen is sold through low networks, 'flea' markets, Saturday stalls, gate sales, etc. If the Maple 'flavour' is from the maple tree great -- otherwise... Ron Law -----Original Message----- From: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology [mailto:BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu]On Behalf Of Bill Truesdell Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2000 10:47 p.m. To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey Allen Dick wrote: > Good idea. Now you are talking. Seems to me the time is right for this > dyn-O-mite product. > > Let's (somebody) do it! > > allen Locally we have a few that sell flavored honey, including maple flavored as syryp. Bill Truesdell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:57:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Eat and drink more honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a distant observer, I have gathered that in the US you have regular agricultural surpluses, not only of honey but also of the fruits produced as a result of pollination by the agency of honeybees. Perhaps honey producers could get together with growers and combine their products to produce for example Cyser (cider with honey) or Halva (Almonds with honey). That way everybody benefits from the added value product. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:31:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: grumpy7 Subject: Re: FW: Jackson Horizontal Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: FW: Jackson Horizontal Hive > Cesar Flores asks:> > > Does anyone use the "Jackson Horizontal Hive"? Well, I don't know about a "Jackson" horizontal hive, but I designed and built a horizontal, two-queen hive last spring and so far I am pleased with it. There are fifteen medium frames in each end, and ten more in the middle separated by queen excluders from the frames in the end sections. Supers for surplus are stacked on the middle section (which is left for the bees). There are separate lids on each of the three sections. The whole shebang is about seven feet long. The bees seem to like it, and so do I. The main reason for my liking it is because I am lazy (also 73 years old). I don't have to take the supers off to get to the brood boxes, and the brood boxes are only one story tall. Each of the two colonies in this double hive has effectively 20 frames, exclusive of supers. In this latitude (central Louisiana) this is enough all year long. We average 100 pounds per ordinary single hive with our two-medium brood nests. We got this thing set up after the main flow was over, so I don't know yet how it will stack up volume-wise to regular hives. But the way the bees filled up their end-sections with honey and brood and the center section with honey, I expect that it will outproduce two ordinary hives, as most two-queen colonies do. This long hive looks as if it will reap the production benefits of two-queen hives and avoid the work. I'll let you know as the next season gets under way. Walter Weller Wakefield, Louisiana ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:13:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Judy Bagnall Subject: one eight screen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings. I purchased 1/8 inch screen at the local (real) hardware = store Hampton Hardware, Allison Park, Pa however the local Sears = Hardware store also carries the same. Bee Happy Paul Bagnall ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:41:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dan McFeeley Subject: Drink Your Honey! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Allen Dick wrote: >There would be a worldwide shortage of honey if North Americans (not >to mention the rest of the world) simply used one kg of honey each a >year. People on average eat very little honey, but if I remember >correctly, they eat 100 pounds plus of sugar annually. > > Think of the amount of beer and wine that people consume. A mere 1% >of that market going over to mead -- which in my opinion can be a >superior beverage -- would create shortages. Maybe we just need to get the word out on mead. The average person on the street doesn't even know what mead is, never mind its virtues as a fermented beverage. Below is a directory of meaderies in the U.S. which I've posted on the mead-lovers-digest from time to time. Feel free to pass it around! <><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Dan McFeeley mcfeeley@keynet.net UNITED STATES Anderson's Orchard & Winery Berrywine Plantation 430 E. US Hwy Lucille Aellen Valpariso, IN 46383 Linganore Winecellars (219) 464-4936 13601 Glissens Mill Rd www.andersonsvineyard.com Mt. Airy, MD 21771-8595 andwine@niia.net (310) 831-5889 (410) 795-6432 www.linganore-wine.com info@linanore-wine.com White Winter Winery Spurgeon Vineyards & Winery 402 South George St Rt 1 PO Box 636 Box 201 Highland, WI 53543 Iron River, WI 54847 (608) 929-7692 Toll Free: 800-697-2006 www.spurgeonvineyards (715) 372-5656 spurgeon@mhtc.net www.whitewinter.com goodmead@win.bright.net Sky River Brewing Earle Estates Meadery 32533 Cascade View Drive John & Esther Earle P.O. Box 869 3586 Rt. 14 Sultan, WA 98294 Himrod, New York, 14842 (360)793-6761 e-mail: earle@linkny.com http://skyriverbrewing.com Web-address: www.meadery.com Fred's Mead Company HoneyRun Honey Co Fred Buhl John & Amy Hasle 6024 N.W. 54th Terrace Box 3172 Gainesville, FL 32653-3344 Chico, CA, 95928 Phone/FAX: 916-345-6405 Fred's Mead Company World Corporate www.des-chico.com/~honeyrun Headquarters: email: honeyrun@honeyrun.com (352) 381-9003 Toll-free: 1-877-886-9472 Lakewood Vineyards Life Force Honey & Winery Christopher Stamp 1193 Saddle Ridge Rd 4024 SR 14 Moscow, ID 83843 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 208-882-9158 607-535-9252 800-497-8258 www.lakewoodvineyards.com LVwinery@aol.com Little Hungary Farm Winery Pirtle's Weston Vineyards Frank Androczi Elbert & Trisha Pirtle Rt 6, POB 323 502 Spring St, PO Box 247 Buckhannon, WV 26201 Weston, MO 64098 304-472-6634 816-640-5728 http://pirtlewie.com pirtlewie@aol.com Oliver Winery Rocky Mountain Meadery Bill & Kathleen Oliver Fred & Connie Strothman 8024 Hwy 37 3701 G Rd Bloomington, IN Palisade, CO 81526 812-876-5800 970-464-7899 www.wic.net/meadery Volcano Winery WineHaven Winery and Vineyard PO Box 843 9757 292nd Street Volcano, HI 96785 Chisago City, MN 55013 808-967-7479 Phone/Fax (651) 257-1017 www.volcanowinery.com info@winehaven.com marketing: .Avvolcanowinery@aol http://www.winehaven.com/ general information: volcanowine@aol.com Cuthills Vineyards Bartlett Maine Estate Winery Ed Swanson RR1, Box 598 RR2, Box 210 Gouldsboro,ME 04607 Pierce, NE 68767 (207) 546-2408 (402) 329-6774 www.cuthills.com Cask & Hive Winery La Buena Vida Vineyards PO Box 275 416 E College Street 155 Norris Hill Rd. Grapevine, TX Monmouth, ME 04259 (817) 481-9463 (207) 933-WINE http://labuenavidavineyards.com www.cuthills.com Ambrosia by Kristy Meadery Heidrun Meadery 4921 85th Ave West 55 Ericson Court, Suite 4 University Place, WA 98467 Arcata, CA 95521 (253) 307-5156 (707) 825-8748 http://www.wa.net/~ambrosia/ fax (707) 825-8739 Stoney Mesa Winery Jilbert Winery P.O. Box 966 1496 Columbia Rd. 1619 2125 Drive Valley City, Ohio Cedaredge, CO 81413 44280 (970) 856-7572 www.ohiohoneywine.homestead.com http://www.stoneymesa.com Minnesota Wild Winery Mountain Meadows Mead 69 Airport Blvd. Ron Lunder & Peggy Fulder - Meadmakers McGregor, MN 55760 12 Third Street (218) 768-4917 Westwood, California 96137-1199 phone 530.256.3233 fax 530.256.3234 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:45:39 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: pdillon Subject: French Demostration against "Guacho" and other systemic pesticides MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi to everybody, A note to inform that the demonstration in France took place - A GREAT success. It was not pleasant to take this action, but how do you get messages across when blatant scientific facts are being ignored regarding the toxicity of Imidacloprid. To see for yourselves - visit: http://www.apiservices.com/index_us.htm click on "new pages" Photos and other details. Thank you for all the messages of support. Find out if you have this product in your country! and start asking why when evidence is now available proving its toxicity to bees and unacceptable + prolonged soil persistence. Regards Peter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:18:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: Joe Latshaw Bees In-Reply-To: <200010252136.RAA19713@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've received a couple of notes from folks sharing info about the strain of bees being developed by Joe Latshaw, including a note from J. Latshaw himself. Info about Latshaw's work is at: http://www.ohioqueenbreeders.com/ Info about Cobey's NWC is at: http://iris.biosci.ohio-state.edu/honeybee/breeding/NWC.html Thanks to all who responded. Bill Daniels ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:48:57 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Antibiotic Resistance Story MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.msnbc.com/msn/481954.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 09:08:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "KAMRAN F FAKHIMZADEH (MMSEL)" Organization: University of Helsinki Subject: VARROA DETECTOR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear friends I just want to draw your attention to the American Bee Journal November issue, News Notes. Varroa was discovered for the first time in St. Kitts and Nevis which is one of the Caribbean countries, with the help of the New Invention (Varroa detector) that we discussed during Sept and October this year. The mites are of the Java haplotype of Varroa jacobsoni and the infestation level were only 4% in samples of 42 bees (average). Regards Kamran Fakhimzadeh Dept. of Applied Biology University of Helsinki kamran.fakhimzadeh@helsinki.fi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:38:37 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Varroa detector MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit KamranFakhimzaeh wrote > Varroa was discovered for the first time > in St. Kitts and Nevis which is one of the Caribbean countries, >The mites are of the Java haplotype of Varroa jacobsoni >From my understanding of the situation, the Java strain, which is the original Varroa jacobsoni, does not reproduce on Apis mellifera and has to have its host, Apis cerana, to survive. I would think that what is present on St. Kitts and Nevis is Varroa destructor if it is reproducing on Apis mellifera. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 07:55:36 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05162 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:55:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00242 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:58:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141258.HAA00242@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:58:29 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0010D" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 110053 Lines: 2424 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:23:01 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: pdillon Subject: GAUCHO AND FRENCH DEMOSTRATION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everybody, If the problem that the molecule Imidacloprid (Gaucho) is causing (if we beekeepers and independent researchers are correct!) interests you , and it should, then visit www.apiservices.com It has on its "new pages" an article printed in "LIBERATION", a french national newspaper covering recent developments! Also, just to keep you all informed, there is to be a National demonstration by all french beekeepers in front of the Bayer's factory on the 25th Oct. 2000. The aim of the demonstration is: 1. Beekeepers in France demand the removal of all products based on Imidacloprid are removed from the market immediately. 2. Beekeepers in France demand the suspension of all products containing the molecule "fipronil" produced by Rhone-Poulenc. 3. Beekeepers in France demand that in relation to the protection of useful organisms, especially honeybees, the procedures followed in the testing and placing on to the market of such materials is completely revised. Beekeepers will be moving from all over France in their vehicles with trailers carrying dead hives- killed by systemic insecticides. On the way each convoy will be stopping in major towns to make representations to local government officers, MP.s, press and T.V.etc., converging on the pre mentioned factory. If you support us send me a mail! Thank you for reading this mail Regards Peter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:32:41 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Screened Bottom Boards In-Reply-To: <200010220353.XAA15767@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, Scott Moser wrote: > Greetings all, > I have heard that the standard mesh size for screened bottom boards is > 8 mesh or 1/8 inch squares. Why wouldn't 4 mesh (1/4") squares work? the > 8 mesh is tough to find around here. Thanks! > Scott The quarter inch mesh allows robbing to take place through the screen and the area is so large that small hives cannot defend themselves. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:42:13 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Late season pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/21/00 2:22:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cedavidson@NETONECOM.NET writes: > I live in central lower Michigan. I am writing this on October 21. The > hive in my back yard is very active this afternoon bringing in a dark > orange colored pollen. Goldenrod is done, and it is a lighter color > than this. Does anyone have any idea what they are getting it from. There are many possibilities. One of the glories of keeping bees is that you become more alert to the botany/natural history of the area. Aster is quite frost resistant, and its pollen is yellow-orange. Another possibility is witch-hazel, which will bloom long after frost, though I'm not sure of the pollen color. A friend of mine found hives carrying pollen in mid-winter once, on a warm day, and found the bees working fresh bouquets at a nearby cemetery. Some of the low creeping varieties of the mint family will bloom late in the fall, and must be quite frost resistant, as they will be blooming again as soon as snow is off. Henbit has a deep orange pollen. Around here (in SC) I've seen anise hyssop bloom in a warm spell in late fall, and again very early in spring. Wild mustard will bloom all winter here, but its pollen is pale yellow. Alder will bloom in midwinter, though its pollen is likewise pale. I don't know if it ever blooms in fall. A warm Indian summer in late fall can sometimes make apples and pears have a spotty fall bloom. If you can spot the bees at the flower, you then have learned something of use when you see the bees at the hive entrance, as the color of the pollen will give you clues as to what the bees are working. I can often tell to the day, when bees start working a certain flower. Dave The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 13:06:36 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Riach Subject: Wasp saliva superfuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Large Japanese Hornet adult is "fuelled" completely from the sugary substance it gets from the grubs - adult brings grubs protein rich meat and grub provides adult with high energy fuel in return. The reason the Japanese were interested in this substance was that it was not only rich in energy but had substances which allowed muscles to utilise(convert into power) the energy at a much higher rate than normal sugars. I believe the first experiments were carried out on mice. It doesn't sound like an easy gathering process - each hornet grub has to be induced to provide the substance by "tickling" it's mouth. I believe these hornets are quite rapacious honeybee killers and although the native Japanese bees can handle them (provided the colony is strong enough) using a thermal smothering tecknique, European honeybee colonies are destroyed quite easily. Alan Riach Edinburgh, Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 09:45:17 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Screened Bottom Boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/22/00 9:18:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA writes: > > The quarter inch mesh allows robbing to take place through the screen > and the area is so large that small hives cannot defend themselves. > You can use 2 layers offset slightly to accomplish the same thing. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 08:56:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: Screened Bottom Boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have tried different sizes from the window stainless screen, black plastic window screen, 1/8 inch, 1/4 inch, and the metal queen extruders. Small Hive beetles, and wax moth larvae will clog up on the screens and return to the brood area. If the 1/4 inch or the queen extruders are used the bees will remove and are able to protect the brood area. The debree from the small hive beetles will clog the Queen extruders faster than the 1/4 inch. If you use the side 3/4 inch drill holes Drone and workers with beetle larvae will keep the hive healthy. The hive with the 1/4 inch wire will go thur the small hive beetle attach and not swarm. They will remove and rebuild. Weak but not lost. Michael Housel natural without chemical for pure natural honey. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:02:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Joseph A. Clark" Subject: Re: wasp saliva In-Reply-To: <200010201201.IAA13727@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:58 PM 10/19/00 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, > > I have just heard a radio interview with some guy who has discovered a >new product that he claims is made from wasp saliva in Japan. Apparently >an athlete at the recent Sydney Olympics won her race after drinking this >stuff. Can anyone tell me more about this? Regards, Ted Ted, Sorry it took so long to dig up the article, but the gist of it reads: Marathoner Naoko Takahashi, the first Japanese woman to win an Olympic gold medal drinks a liquid made from a secretion of the larvae of 1-1/2 inch long yellow hornets called "suzumebachi" or "sparrow bees". Takashi Abe, a researcher at the Institute of Physical and Chemical Research near Tokyo, found 5 years ago that mice fed the extract were able to swim continuously for 150 minutes compared to 100 minutes for the control group (those mice without the drink). In Japan, the drink is called Vaam, one of many sold in Japan which claim to restore energy after a hard day of work, or a hard night of drinking. Ms. Takahashi passed her drug tests in Sydney after the marathon, so the gold medal was awarded to her. I'm not sure I'm that desperate for an energy drink that I'd resort to "sparrow bee larvae". I'll stick to coffee! Joe Joseph A. Clark ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:24:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Honeybees can Read!!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone read their latest issue of Bee Culture? Look at the Mailbox section and a letter from a chap in California mentions a Belgian study of Honeybees. His letter describes how scientists, using an electron microscope found systematic etchings on the bottom of honeycomb cells. At first they thought these marks were random, but after entering them into a super computer and comparing them from many other hives, have identified an alphabet! If anyone else knows more about this, please contact me. I want to validate such an incredible story. Jean-Francois Lariviere BeeHealthy Farms, Inc. beehealthy@aol.com NY NY 10025 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:09:28 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: The Honeybees of the British Isles In-Reply-To: <200010202329.TAA11663@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200010202329.TAA11663@listserv.albany.edu>, James Kilty writes quoting albert knight's email >Recently the work by Dr. Bo Vest >Pedersen at Copenhagen University has shown that there are bees here in >Britain and Ireland with identical morphometry (correction by James - dna >studies in addition to morphometry) to the Apis mellifera >mellifera bees of Tasmania. Whoops - in my hasty zeal, I made an inappropriate correction - albert knight's reference was correct and to earlier work on Tasmanian and British Isles bees - later Bo Vest Pederson and Francis Ratnieks did dna studies on British and Scandinavian bees showing *they* were virtually identical. I have no reference to dna work on Tasmanian bees. I confused the 2 studies. Sorry. -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:50:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: repair of honey tote Hello all, I have got a 275 gallon honey/syrup plastic skid tote with a small 3/8 hole in the lower third of the heavy plastic. Repair from the inside does not seem possible. I have thought of using a fiberglass patch. Thanks for advice in advance. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:58:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Honeybees can Read!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean-Francois Lariviere wrote: > Look at the Mailbox section and a letter from a chap in California mentions a > Belgian study of Honeybees. > His letter describes how scientists, using an electron microscope found > systematic etchings on the bottom of honeycomb cells. It appears to be a light-hearted dig at those who do not accept the dance language of bees as true. Don't worry. They cannot read yet. The letter was meant to be a joke. But I am thinking of putting spittoons in my hives, based on the articles on wasp spit. Another value-added product. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:17:16 +1100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Julian O'Dea Subject: Re: Honeybees can Read!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" For an argument that honeybees cannot communicate symbolically, see: http://naturalscience.com/ns/articles/01-13/ns_jdo.html Julian O'Dea Canberra, Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 18:14:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Kim Flottum, Editor Bee Culture" Subject: Honey bees can NOT read... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With tounge planted firmly in cheek, Joe Traynor sent his letter to the Editor in response to the many letters in the journals, and here, regarding a honey bee language. Several years ago we published a story on a race of honey bees that constructed beeswax diving helmets so they could go under water and collect the pollen and nectar from underwater plants. That was published in our April issue (think about it). Joe's, though not in April was in the same vein... Please smile and disregard the story... If you don't, I guess, the joke's on Joe and me. Kim Flottum Editor, Bee Culture Magazine ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:12:32 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Re: Late season pollen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << back yard is very active this afternoon bringing in a dark orange colored pollen. Goldenrod is done, and it is a lighter color than this. >> Could it be from Mumms planted in the neighborhood? I've seen some of my bees working them. Jean-Francois Lariviere BeeHealthy Farms NYC NY ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 17:09:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: Re: Honeybees can Read!!!! In-Reply-To: <200010222025.QAA25400@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > His letter describes how scientists, using an electron microscope found > systematic etchings on the bottom of honeycomb cells. At first they thought > these marks were random, but after entering them into a super computer and > comparing them from many other hives, have identified an alphabet! These are remarkable findings! You need to include a bit more of the article for a fuller appreciation. "Wenner's work has been ignored or questioned by many in the scientific community but recent studies should put an end to the controversy." "Needless to say, scientists are very excited about these latest discoveries which should put an end to the language controversy for all time. Significantly, Wenner has been noticeably silent on these new findings." What a hoot! Great letter from Joe Traynor. I about fell over laughing with this one. And yet the controversy won't die. Last night at our annual beekeeping association banquet, Gene Killion had the new Honey Bee Trading Cards for sale that were prepared by the University of Nebraska Cooperative Extension Service. After thumbing through the deck of cards I came across one titled "Waggle Dance." The standard figure eight drawing was on the front of the card showing "the dance" and on the back is a description of the dance language. It reads: "Honey bees communicate the location of resources by a symbolic dance language. The dance language was first explained by Professor Karl von Frisch who received a Nobel prize for his work. This card shows the waggle dance. It tells other bees the distance, direction, and odor of a resource. Honey bees can give precise directions to a field of flowers that is two miles from the hive! Could you give precise directions to a field that is two miles from where you are standing?" It amazes me that in light of all the published research done by Wenner and others, giving us ample evidence that odor is the key element here, "we" continue to teach a new generation of half truths. At the very least, common sense would dictate that one should mention there is evidence to the contrary of von Frisch's ideas or that a controversy even exists over this issue. I would expect a better representation of the "dance language" than what was given. Some things never want to change. Regards, Barry ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:07:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Late season pollen On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 , Coleene E. Davidson wrote: >I live in central lower Michigan. ... The hive in my back yard is very active this >afternoon bringing in a dark orange colored pollen. Goldenrod is done, and it is a >lighter color than this. Does anyone have any idea what they are getting it from. I would say that the pollen in question is most likely from the late asters (frost asters) still blooming in Michigan. New England asters are still blooming as well. In my garden I have straw flowers in bloom which are very attractive to bees, as are marigolds at this time of the year. All of these have a dark yellow pollen. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:34:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C.R. Crowell" Subject: Re: Using Bees to Clean Equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After extracting, and having made an effort to recover as much of the honey as I can from the barrel of my extractor, I have been of the habit of letting the bees "clean it up." However, I have noticed in the past that too many of them get wetted down with honey on the surface of the extractor and don't make it home again. This year I put some coarse wood shavings in there to give them drier surfaces to land on, and they seemed to suffer much fewer casualties. I wonder it anyone else has come with a solution for this? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:28:22 +0000 Reply-To: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: IBRA Subject: IBRA web address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The IBRA web pages have been updated recently. You may find that your bookmarked address no longer works. This is because I had to rename our homepage file from index.html to a new name - index.shtml (technical reasons to do with the Cardiff server and includes). Please reset your bookmarks to: www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/ =================================================== Dr Pamela Munn, Deputy Director and Editor International Bee Research Association 18 North Road, Cardiff CF10 3DT, UK Tel: (+44) 29 20 372409 Fax: (+44) 29 20 665522 Email: munnpa@cf.ac.uk IBRA WWW pages: http://www.cf.ac.uk/ibra =================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:57:40 -0700 Reply-To: beekeeper82@yahoo.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carm Subject: Calafornia beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, I have recently moved from Ontario, Canada, to near Sacramento, Calafornia. Is there anyone on this list who can be of help in helping me get some bees going here? I know how to do it in Ontario, but weather and everything here is so different! I guess what I need most is some sort of guide to weather and the way it affects the jobs that the beekeeper has. Sorof like when the first flowers come out, when honey supers normally go on, when they come off, when and if you prepare for winter, etc. And, what do you think is the best spot to get bee supplies here? They certainly is enough businesses to choose from. Thanks for the help in advance! Sincerely, Carm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:42:29 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: repair of honey tote In-Reply-To: <200010222218.SAA27647@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This type of thing can be repaired with a bolt and washers if you can manage to get the bolt through from the inside using the top access hole and a stick or wire with something sticky on it. Place a washer and rubber or plastic disk on it on the bolt first. Then just use a washer and nut on the outside. allen --- A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:11:51 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Housel Subject: Pyramid at the cell base MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for information on the pyramid at the cell base. Will bees always work in the pyramid with wax in cell formation? Does it help in evaporation? Is it just engineering structural strength? Michael Housel ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:52:54 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Pyramid at the cell base MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/23/00 9:32:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Orlandobee@AOL.COM writes: > I am looking for information on the pyramid at the cell base I believe it is just efficient use of materials. The "pyramid" forms 1/3 of the base of 3 cells on the other side of the comb. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:45:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Churchill Subject: Re: Pyramid at the cell base In-Reply-To: <200010231358.JAA22888@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:52 AM 10/23/00 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 10/23/00 9:32:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >Orlandobee@AOL.COM writes: > >> I am looking for information on the pyramid at the cell base >I believe it is just efficient use of materials. The "pyramid" forms 1/3 of >the base of 3 cells on the other side of the comb. There was an interesting article, "The Honeycomb Conjecture" in the July 24, 1999 "Science News" (Vol 156, Issue 4; pp 60-61) regarding studies about the shape of honeycomb. In summary (based on my memory of the article), the hexagon is the most efficient means of covering a 2-dimensional area with a regular, repeating pattern. This is why honeycomb cells are hexagonal in cross section. The pyramidal shape for the botton is actually _not_ the most effecient shape. There is another pattern which uses small rhombus's at the corners that actually is slightly "better" - at least mathamatically. Studies using soap films between two plates (blowing uniform bubbles in a double layer between two sheets of glass) showed that the pyramid/rhombus layout was achieved. As they thickened the density of the soap film, however, the bubbles switched to the pyramid configuration that bees use. They conjectured that there is a benefit to the pyramidal shape for thicker substances. Sorry this description is not clearer - a picture is worth a thousand words. The article is no longer available for free, but can be purchased for $2.50 US. For a copy, visit http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sciencenews/ and search for "bees and honeybomb". Mike Mike Churchill, Beginning Beekeeper | What's the buzz all about? mike.churchill@netmechanic.com http://www.netmechanic.com - Power Tools for Your Web Site Link and HTML testing, Server Reliability Testing, Website Promotion Tools ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:55:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Screened bottom boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott asks, "Why wouldn't 4 mesh (1/4") squares work?" In addition to possible robbing problems, one would never be able to move a hive, with the bottom board, as the bees could get through. 1/8 inch mesh is available from Betterbee (800-632-3379) and perhaps some other suppliers. If you have a good hardware store serving the farm community, they should also have it or be able to tell you a place nearby. Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:01:15 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Pyramid at the cell base In-Reply-To: <200010231450.KAA24162@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Michael Churchill wrote: In summary (based on my memory of the article), the hexagon is the most efficient means of covering a 2-dimensional area with a regular, repeating pattern. This is why honeycomb cells are hexagonal in cross section. Hi Michael: It is tempting to say that bees make their cells hexagonal because that is the most efficient way to do it, but I don't believe that is the case. I think they make a bunch of cells simultaneously and the bees working on one cell pushing against the bees working on adjacent cells give a hexagon by default. When making queen cells there are no competing cell builders and there is no hexagon. I don't know much about bumble bees, but when their queen makes her first "honey pots" and there are no competing constructors the results are probably not hexagons. Any bumble bee experts out there? Other features of the hive probably have a prosaic origin as well. If a bee can just barely get into a space she probably can't make much of a comb there. One expects "bee space" to be determined by the size of the bee. The size of cells built without foundation is likely to be determined by the size of the worker as well. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:31:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: wasp saliva MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by tdixon@SD70.BC.CA to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove MIME formatting. > ------- Original message (ID=333D15C1) (61 lines) --------- > > From: Tony Dixon > To: "'BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu'" > Subject: wasp saliva > Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 19:54:34 -0700 > > 'Vespa Sport Drink' is the wasp saliva based beverage for > athletes who want the wasp saliva advantage. It seems quite > popular with professional hockey players. > > The company has an interesting web site with news articles > both pro and con > at: http://www.vespapower.com > > Tony Dixon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:01:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: repair of honey tote MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by Jkeim@WENGER.COM to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. > ------------ Original message (ID=C60EB2E4) (45 lines) -------------- > From: John Keim > To: "'Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology'" > > Subject: RE: repair of honey tote > Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:54:20 -0500 > > If access from the inside is not possible, or the bolt turns > and is unable > to be tightened, he could cut a small patch of > rubber (possibly an intertube), place over the hole, then use a > .25" pop rivet to push the > rubber inside, while allowing the > material thickness of the rubber to seal the inside diameter. > This would allow the rivet to seal both surfaces of the hole as > it is drawn. Possibly some type of sealant could be used in > conjunction for more assurance of a seal. > > John Keim > Keim Apiaries > Fairview, Kansas ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:02:55 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Screened bottom boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ace hardware has 1/8 mesh in their supply chain, I paid a little more for mine than I would have from the beekeeping catalog but the hardware is one of my customers. Ace members are pretty good about ordering things. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:20:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Terence Golla Subject: Concerning www.LocalHoneyForSale.com My name is Terence Golla. I live in Coweta, Oklahoma (outside of Tulsa, OK). I'm a hobbyist beekeeper. I'm also Vice President of NEOBA (Northeast Oklahoma Beekeepers Association). For a living I'm an Internet Stratigest with my own business (http://www.CimarronRavine.com). The reason I tell you these thing is that I've recently been the topic of discuss on this e-mail list along with a Web site I manage called http://www.LocalHoneyForSale.com. As such, I would like to clear up some of the confusion. Let's start with the unsolicited e-mail. Yes, I have sent many a simple introduction to our site. The e-mail addresses have been found while browsing other beekeeping related sites. This is a very simple way to let others know about the site and it's benefits. We are not subscribing to large Spam list, we are not out capturing e-mail list from list servers, etc. It's less dramatic than this. I browse beekeeping site reading information, find an e-mail address and send an introduction through our web software. Our system is extremely sophisticated and PREVENTS anyone having received an introduction from receiving another such e-mail. This is all part of our effort to prevent Spam. We don't sell these e-mail addresses or any member information. This is against all of our policies and my scruples. We do sell advertising for which you may have guessed can be targeted at those buying local honey and beekeepers. If you find this commercialistic, I'm sorry. I honestly don't expect to make a proffit on the site, but I will not appoligize for trying to support this sites cost for monthly hosting and site development. It's currently cost $50 per month to host the site and we estimate that development cost are over $20,000. So for the inconvience of a banner ad or advertising text in the newsletter you get a great FREE service. Not to mention the monthly contest with great prizes! We are currently limited to North America. The sites development has a two year plan and we may go global but that requires multiple languages, etc. We just don't have the staff or money right now. On the flip side we have a targeted audience and the top Internet inabled population in the world. Beyond these items it appears that I would and will improve the site by giving it a more personal touch. I do appolige for the comment about providing social security numbers. What a mistake! The orginal policy statement came for an extremely secure site (banking/credit approval). Developers are not the brightest people when it comes to common sense and I simply missed this when proofing the site. We don't want you social security number! In fact, you can hide your address and phone number from appearing in any search results. And we never give out your e-mail address. We simple forward any messages to you. I understand that the Internet is a scary thing and that paranoia on the Web often runs rampant. I do appreciate those who commented about contacting us for more information. Good, honest people do run this site and I hope you will check it out. We are always looking for ways to improve the site and your comments are always welcome. Sincerely, Terence Golla Local Honey For Sale http://www.LocalHoneyForSale.com Reference E-mails... 033086 00/09/2914:1637unsolicitated email 033087 00/09/2914:2126Re: unsolicitated email 033088 00/09/2915:1340Re: unsolicitated email 033089 00/09/2917:0323localhoneyforsale 033090 00/09/2917:3366Re: unsolicitated email 033109 00/10/0118:5467Re: localhoneyforsale 033111 00/10/0209:1354Re: unsolicitated email and Beekeeping Classified Ads ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:49:56 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Honey, labeling, nutrition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently received a solicitation from something called the Nutrition Action Newsletter. It bills itself as a sort of Consumer Reports focusing on foods. A marketing insert touts 10 of their most "shocking" revelations, and lists them. Top of the list No. 1: Quaker 100% Natural Oats & Honey Granola The write-up begins rhetorically with this: "Does Mother Nature want you eating half a cup of oats coated with three teaspoons of sugar laden with more artery clogging fat than you'd get in a McDonald's hamburger?" I've been looking for this product on my local store shelves to answer the following question: Does it have any honey in it at all? I gather from previous threads about labels that you must truthfully represent what the contents are of your product, but then I read in another part of the Nutrition Action material about this: "Although Aunt Jemima Blueberry Waffles, judging from the picture on the box, appear to contain real blueberries, in fact the product contains only "blueberry bits" made of sugar, fat, artificial flavor and color." Aren't the manufacturers here in violation of the U.S. label laws? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:36:25 -0500 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bob harrison Subject: Re: repair of honey tote MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > > This type of thing can be repaired with a bolt and washers if you can manage to > get the bolt through from the inside using the top access hole. Hello Allen, I had another reply by direct email about a special bolt with rubber made for such a purpose and sold by Home depot. The problem with my tank is not being able to reach to inside to install. I am going to show the repair complete with pictures in Gleanings if accepted. I thank all those which have sent direct emails with possible solutions and welcome all others so i can list all possible solutions in the article. I found there are many of these plastic totes needing repair. Many of you remember my "refrigerator warming box "post . Gleanings is doing a article on the warming box (complete with pictures) in the December issue. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:06:30 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: huestis Subject: egyptian bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Can someone on the list tell me if it is true that Egyptian bees use no = propolise? Why isn't this race used in hybrid stock? What other characteristics = does this race have that they aren't used commercially. Any info would = be appreciated. Clayton Huestis Crown Point, NY ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:25:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C.R. Crowell" Subject: Re: FW: repair of honey tote MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It might be too late, but there is a rubber plug device used for oil pans when the pan's metal plug won't work because the threads are stripped. It looks like a rubber baby bottle nipple, and a special tool is inserted inside it to cause it to become distended. It is then inserted into the oil pan opening, whereby the bottom flange rests against the oil pan itself. The tool is removed, and the plug gets shorter and "fatter", engaging the sides of the hole. The same tool must be used to remove the plug when the oil is to be changed next. These items were not expensive, and are I believe are not that rare, since nowadays it is more common for cars to have cast aluminum oil pans that have threads that strip easily. They also work with fairly large (5/8 inch) openings, but the opening must be close to circular. It's a short cut to either replacing the pan or re-welding it to replace the blown threads. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:01:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: N Gravel Subject: Re: Pyramid at the cell base MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Michael, I am no expert or scientist, but I think the pyramid is mainly a result of how the bottom of the cell meets with the bottoms of the cells on the other side of the comb. If you look at a natural comb in the light you'll see that the three sides of the hexagon meet right in the middle of the cell on the opposite side witch create the pyramid but as you look toward the sides of the comb, you'll see different shapes probably not as structurally (that's a tough one to say ) strong. Hope this helps. Normand ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:05:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Honey, labeling, nutrition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" John Mitchell asks: > Aren't the manufacturers here in violation of the U.S. label laws? I'm winging it here, I have not referenced any legal documents. My understanding is that manufacturers can pretty much put anything on the box that they want. The labeling laws kick in under the list of ingredients, which I can no longer read with my new glasses. Optomotrist recommended bifocals, but in a fit of denial (bifocals are for old farts) I passed. But I digress. It is the list of ingredients that must tell the truth of what's in the product, listing first the most prominent ingredient, followed in succession down to the least prominent ingredient. I don't recall if it's by volume or by weight ;-) Most products which prominently feature HONEY on the box usually have honey towards the tail end of the ingredients list after sugar and/or corn sweeteners. Fat content can be found in the ntritional value label. Funny how the box advertising vs. ingredient/nutritional value list can allow such fuzzyness when honey label laws are so stringent. Aaron Morris - thinking the playing fiels is not level. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:32:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Hamilton Subject: no yearly treatments for AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I would like to start some discussion of Marla Spivik's article in ABJ. She advocates periodic replacing frames and not using prophylactic treatments with Terramycin. As I have been replacing 2 frames per box per year and have requeened most hives with Minn-Hygenic queens, it seems to make sense for me to try this to preventing Terra resistant AFB from developing. Comments? Dave ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 04:52:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: Egyptian Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> Apparently this is so, and Brother Adam used this bee in order to minimise propolis production in his Buckfast strain. The Egyptian bee is described as 'glowing orange' in colour and extremely hairy, but that is all the information I have to hand. Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:49:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: huestis Subject: new world carniolan breeders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Could someone tell me if there any NWC breeders in the northeast? Names = and phone #'s would be nice. If not any breeders from around the = country would be welcome. Thanks. Clayton Huestis ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:32:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Local Honey for Sale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think it was me who started the discussion about a solicitation several of us received to list/advertise on this web site. Several of us commented about the request that social security numbers be provided, the lack of a person's name and contact information, and what seemed to be an obvious attempt to collect email addresses and possibly be subject to Spam. Yesterday, someone telephoned me to also solicit such a listing. By asking a few questions I was able to reasonably determine that he was talking about the same web site, and told him of Bee-L's existence and of our discussion. Obviously, he then joined the list and did a search for the relevant discussions. It sounds as if he is sincere about addressing the issues that concerned several of us and presumably one could verify his membership in the beekeeping organizations listed. Personally, I would like to see those changes before considering a listing on the web site. Even then, I will probably not join. I was also pleased to see that he apparently did not pick up my email address from the Bee-L list. Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:44:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: egyptian bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Clayton, The Egyptian bee is an African bee identified as apis mellifera lamarckii. Ruttner places it in the same group of AFRICANIZED bees that we don't want in the US, e. g. a. m. scutellata, a. m. adansonii, and a. m. capensis (which we surely don't want). If you are trying to avoid propolis, the "true" Carniolan makes little or no propolis. Unfortunately, the Carniolan stock in Austria is related to the CAUCASIAN race and hence propolizes heavily; and that is the stock used by Tom Rinderer to create the YUGO ARS C1 hybrid - a bad mistake by my standards. The New World Carniolan, developed by Sue Cobey, is almost propolis free. However, field breeding often changes that. FORGET EGYPTIAN bees! I hope I have helped. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:30:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Egyptian Bees Comments: cc: buzzybee@CAPITAL.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cross-posted for information/discussion purposes only from http://www.latimes.com/editions/orange/ocnews/20001019/t000099802.html Thursday, October 19, 2000 Bees That Stung Woman Were Domestic Genetic tests rule out Africanized swarm in vicious attack on Lake Forest senior, county entomologist says. By H.G. REZA Genetic tests showed it was domestic, not Africanized, honeybees that attacked a 77-year-old Lake Forest woman who was hospitalized for a week earlier this month after she was stung hundreds of times. Nick Nisson, entomologist at the Orange County agricultural commissioner's office, said DNA tests showed the bees that attacked Jackie Wright were a hybrid of a species that originated in Egypt. "This hybrid has been around here for over a century," Nisson said. Africanized bees can be extremely belligerent and, in some cases, kill humans and animals when provoked. Wright, a resident of Freedom Village, an apartment complex for seniors, was sitting in the garden Oct. 1 when workers removed a side panel from a building at the complex, disturbing a colony of bees. The bees swarmed around Wright and began stinging her as she ran to the driveway. Orange County Fire Authority officials said that paramedics found hundreds of bees flying around Wright when they arrived. It was estimated that she was stung between 300 and 500 times. She was transported to Saddleback Memorial Medical Center in Laguna Hills, where she was treated for an allergic reaction until her release Oct. 9. Copyright 2000 Los Angeles Times ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:36:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Honey, labeling, nutrition In-Reply-To: <200010241155.HAA22083@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I digress. It is the list of ingredients that must tell the truth of what's > in the product, listing first the most prominent ingredient, followed in > succession down to the least prominent ingredient.... > Most products which prominently feature HONEY on > the box usually have honey towards the tail end of the ingredients list > after sugar and/or corn sweeteners. Honey is often used as a flavouring ingredient and as such is featured prominently in the name, but is near the end of the ingredients. This is very much like garlic or pepper. A product named " Garlic Whatever" seldom will have more than a little garlic. One amazing example I have in my fridge is a bottle of "Garlic Caesar" salad dressing described on the label as " A savoury blend of fresh garlic, cider vinegar, pure extra virgin olive oil, Regganio, Parmesan, and Romano cheeses, capers and anchovies". The ingredients list, however reveals that the predominant oil (and main constituent) is canola -- which is not even mentioned in the main panel. This is legal, but dishonest. Our product's good name is being used to boost products that contain little of it. allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:52:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: NWC's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Clayton wondered about breeders of the New World Carnolians. Clayton, New World Carnolian is a registered trademark for a specific strain of bees developed by Sue Cobey. In addition to herself, queens are only available from four US breeders, see http://iris.biosci.ohio-state.edu/honeybee/breeding/NWC.html. (There is a lot more worth seeing on this web site.) That said, there are a number of good breeders of carnolian strains in the Northeast. Most are in Canada, but one is not too far from you. He is Kirk Webster, Box 381, Middlebury, VT 05753. 802-758-2501. He always sells out, so nucs should be ordered now, and queens no later than January 31. If you need early queens you are pretty much limited to those breeders in California. If you can wait until June or July, you might want to try stock from the Northeast, even though they are not NWC's. Personally, I order 40 or so queens from Calif. to arrive late April and then split my later orders between the breeders in the Northeast and California. In general, I think the Calif. NWC's are more gentle, and overwinter just as well, compared to the Northeast carnolian queens. However, mid-summer queens from the Northeast seem to be accepted better than those from Calif., where mid-summer temperatures are in the 100's for days on end! Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:29:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Stevens Subject: honey labelling in products MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It has long been my contention that there is nothing more positive that the National Honey Board could do for the beekeepers it purportedly represents than clean up the false advertizing by major corporations of honey as an ingredient Simply get an FDA ruling that any concoction using honey in in its name or in its advertizing must have honey as its primary sweetener. Imagine the wool board tolerating a sweater with a miniscule amount of wool in it being advertized as a wool sweater. My honey board representative, Mr. Hackenberg told me they wouldn't want to do that because it would cut down on the sale of industrial honey because many companies simply wouldn't want to raise their prices to incorporate a larger percentage of a more expensive sweetener like honey. My contention is that if their were fewer falsely advertized honey products, and more genuine honey products, it might actually result in more honey being used. It certainly would enhance honey's reputation. I suspect that the real reason the honey board is not interested in standards for honey use in a product is that most industrial honey is imported and that is where they get the bulk of their revenues to pay their own salaries. Bob Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:11:23 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Eat (and drink) More Honey In-Reply-To: <200010241735.NAA05201@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There would be a worldwide shortage of honey if North Americans (not to mention the rest of the world) simply used one kg of honey each a year. People on average eat very little honey, but if I remember correctly, they eat 100 pounds plus of sugar annually. A lot of sugar is used in beverages. * Imagine if someone decided to promote a sports drink based on honey -- and used honey only as the sweetener -- and the drink became popular! * Think of the amount of beer and wine that people consume. A mere 1% of that market going over to mead -- which in my opinion can be a superior beverage -- would create shortages. But the real sleeper product IMO, is PANCAKE SYRUP. Pancake syrup outsells honey in every store every day, yet a very nice pancake syrup -- better than any I've tasted -- can be made by watering down pure honey to the right consistency. Why we do not promote these products is beyond me. We have time and energy to spent infighting, cutting prices, denigrating the other beekeeper's product and trying to block international trade, but we don't have the time and energy to strongly promote these honey uses. What is the matter with us? allen PS If you are going to make some syrup -- and I suggest you do (and report back to me if you don't think it is GREAT! -- remember that honey syrup must be pasteurised or have sodium benzoate or sorbate added to prevent fermentation if it is to be stored for long unrefrigerated or to be distributed commercially. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:30:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Churchill Subject: Re: Honey, labeling, nutrition In-Reply-To: <200010232319.TAA09399@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:49 PM 10/23/00 -0400, you wrote: >The write-up begins rhetorically with this: "Does Mother Nature want you >eating half a cup of oats coated with three teaspoons of sugar laden with >more artery clogging fat than you'd get in a McDonald's hamburger?" >I've been looking for this product on my local store shelves to answer the >following question: Does it have any honey in it at all? Here's the label info for "Nature Valley Oat's 'N Honey Crunchy Granola Bars". Honey is listed after sugar, but before brown sugar syrup. These aren't the exact brand you mentioned, but I had one of these in my desk at work (they're pretty tasty, too). Ingredients: Whole grain rolled oats sugar canola oil crisp rice (rice flour, sugar, malt, salt) honey soy protien brown sugar syrup salt soy lecithin baking soda natural flavor almond flour peanut flour CONTAINS SOY, ALMOND AND PEANUT INGREDIENTS Two bars (42 grams) have 180 Calories, 11 grams of sugars, and only 6 grams of fat (0.5 g Saturated fat), so are much less than a McDonalds hamburger (9g fat, 3.5 Sat. fat) or a Quarter Pounder with cheese (30g Fat, 13 g Sat. fat). I am unsure of how many grams there are in a teaspoon of honey (or sugar), but the 11 grams represents about 1/4 of the total mass of the bars. IHTH. Mike Churchill, Beginning Beekeeper | What's the buzz all about? mike.churchill@netmechanic.com http://www.netmechanic.com - Power Tools for Your Web Site Link and HTML testing, Server Reliability Testing, Website Promotion Tools ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:42:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey What could you call pancake syrup made from watered down pasteurized and or preserved honey? I don't think you could call it "honey syrup" but maybe you could. I'm sure you could call it "pancake syrup" or "waffle syrup" but what would be a good, accurate, and lawful name for it that included the word "honey"? It would be nice to be able to call it "honey pancake syrup". My family and I for many years have used honey on waffles. We never watered it down, but we heated it to make it runny. That kept the waffles warmer too so they tasted better. Now that I think about it, I did make some homemade syrup from brown sugar, water, and lots of honey (added a little maple flavoring too) and that worked pretty good. We kept it in the refrigerator and "pasteurized" it before each use so it wouldn't chill the waffles. Back to the name: would it be legal to call the syrup "honey whatever" as long as you just didn't call it "honey"? Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:58:37 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Organization: Oregon VOS Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey In-Reply-To: <200010241844.OAA08857@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I dunno folks, but manufacturing something out of a nearly perfect natural resource seems full of hard work and red tape. In my book, although I really do like Pure Maple Syrup, Honey as it comes out of the bottle, comb, extractor, hive is already a pretty good waffle or pancake dressing. I'm no marketing whiz, but I'll wager just packaging it in a traditional pancake syrup bottle (narrow neck more convenient for pouring) and labeling it "Pure Honey for Pancakes and Waffles" would do the trick. We could even add "Nature's perfect natural syrup." And for the Green Market, "not a single cord of wood used in processing." On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Musashi wrote: > What could you call pancake syrup made from watered down pasteurized and > or preserved honey? --------------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, fly tying benches | leave our kids a decent place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:40:14 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You asked why we promote so many "bad" things rather than the "good" things. Why are there innumerable movies about crime and crime LORDS like Al Capone, Bonnie & Clyde, The Mafia, etc; but rarely anything about Jesus Christ? It is easier to make headlines and becoming "known" by "punching someone in the nose" than it is shaking hands. SAD COMMENTARY! George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:58:04 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey In-Reply-To: <200010242038.QAA12752@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I dunno folks, but manufacturing something out of a nearly perfect natural > resource seems full of hard work and red tape. What is interesting is that no one so far yet has said "Wow! What great idea. I tried it and I'm going to propose this to my co-op or start taking it to the farmer's market." Maybe I'll have to wait until after breakfast tomorrow when some people on the list have actually tried honey thinned to commercial pancake syrup consistency. I'd sure like to hear from anyone who has actually tried my idea and I sure do hope some people actually do get around to making syrup just the way I suggest and get back to the list about their experience. Honey thinned to syrup is NOT like thick honey at all when applied to pancakes. The taste and effect is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT from anything you have ever tried. You are in for a HUGE surprise. Try it, then tell me it isn't. Or else tell everyone the surprise part of it that I have so far held back. It doesn't take much water to thin the honey to a syrup, so high moisture honey might be just fine as it is. I suspect, though, that that around 25% to 30% moisture would be ideal for most tastes. People are always wondering what to do with high moisture honey, we'll here's your answer. Just heat it to 125 degrees F for four hours and package it into sterile, sealed containers or keep it refrigerated -- or frozen -- if you don't pasteurise it. (Or thin it some more to make a honey 'power drink' or add yeast and make mead). Anyhow, thinned honey is much more like the syrups that most people are accustomed to and are therefore likely to try, then adopt. People have had a chance to use full-strength honey on pancakes and waffles and it just hasn't been a huge runaway hit like maple syrup, so I suspect that it never will be. Don't forget that cars were initially made to look like buggies so that they could gain public acceptance. Maybe we have to resemble the familiar popular syrups in viscosity and packaging to gain acceptance. > seems full of hard work and red tape. What worthwhile project isn't? Another ingredient required to develop a new product is cash. Many new products fail, yet it seems to me that if the co-ops have the financial depth and the reach. If one or more were to package a pure honey syrup and distribute it -- perhaps free initially -- (with the right 'natural' spin) to pancake restaurant chains that we would suddenly have a huge new market. (Where *is* that Honey Board we all pay a toll to)? > In my book, although I really do like Pure Maple Syrup, Honey as it comes > out of the bottle, comb, extractor, hive is already a pretty good waffle > or pancake dressing. How many people can buy that, and for how much of the year? And -- trust me -- honey syrup, made right, from good honey, will make you forget about maple syrup. > I'm no marketing whiz, but I'll wager just packaging it in a traditional > pancake syrup bottle (narrow neck more convenient for pouring) and > labelling it "Pure Honey for Pancakes and Waffles" would do the trick. Might work with yours, but mine is just too thick for most people, including me. So is the product we market from the co-ops as Number One, even if it is 18.6% moisture. > We could even add "Nature's perfect natural syrup." And for the Green > Market, "not a single cord of wood used in processing." Good idea. Now you are talking. Seems to me the time is right for this dyn-O-mite product. Let's (somebody) do it! allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:30:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HStarJE@AOL.COM Subject: Jackson Horizontal Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone use the "Jackson Horizontal Hive"? I am planning to build some modified versions this winter and use them experimentally next spring. I would like information about advantages/disadvantages and management techniques. Cesar Flores Colorado USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:03:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: eat(and drink)more honey Hello all, We have got a beekeeper in Missouri selling the honey syrup made in about the same way as Allen talks about. Her operation sells a plain honey syrup and three flavored syrups. The syrups have been on the market for about six years. They were in Wal mart stores for a short time. She also tried flavored creamed honey. Both are still made but have never really taken off. Both lost their self space at Wal mart due to low sales. Missouri has a "Agri-Missouri" matching funds program. Perfect for new products. "Agri-Missouri" was used to pay half on the custom labels and start up costs. Maybe your state or country has a similar program. The lady beekeeper said she lacked the money needed to really promote the honey syrup product through advertising. The Honey Board might could help. The last time i was in our local Wal mart super center all creamed honey had lost its shelf space. Even Barkmans creamed honey. Barkmans is the largest supplier of honey to Wal mart stores. If you are still reading and have not deleted this post yet i am about to make my point. Other than "pure honey" the market has to be built for creamed honey and syrups. Large packers put the product on the shelves but also have to pull the product if sales drop below a certain level as required by large chains. I on the other hand believe Allen is correct in his belief we need to find new products. A small beekeeper wanting to market a new product the public is not familiar with needs to go to the store and spend time creating a market by giving away samples and promoting the product. Repeat business is what keeps those products on the shelves. A important thing to remember about selling honey is that what ever you are giving samples of is what sells. I can take any one of our products-creamed honey,comb honey,wildflower honey,etc. and start handing out samples and improve sales on the product. Most customers buy from the product they have sampled. A niche could be carved from the above but not by large packers without national promotion. This post is not meant to discourage beekeepers wanting to market honey syrup only add to your information by telling of a beekeepers experiances trying to market honey syrup. Her product does taste wonderful but is three times higher in price than cheap sugar syrup with maple flavoring. My friends at wal mart tell me the cheap imitation maple syrup (made from syrup like we feed to bees ,brown food coloring and imitation maple flavoring) outsells our "pure honey "by huge amounts. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:09:37 -0400 Reply-To: Peter John Keating Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter John Keating Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, talking about honey syrups reminds me of what l encountered in a restaurant the other week. This was an individual serving of "Honey Sauce".This "sauce" was packed as the jams and served with the jams and peanut butter. It resembled honey in viscosity and colour, BUT was labeled Honey Sauce and "Sauce au Miel" (l am in Canada). What could this product be? Is honey so expensive that it has to be added to another syrup and then sold as a sauce? The worst thing was that it was "produced " here in Quebec. Peter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:59:35 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter John Keating said > Greetings, talking about honey syrups reminds me of what l encountered > in a restaurant the other week. This was an individual serving of "Honey > Sauce". Yea that right the honey has been cut with High Fructose Corn Syrup and is cheaper. This is done in Kentucky fried Chicken Chain in America. These industrial giants would be good targets for National honey Board. Walter Patton Beekeeper - Hawaii Tourguide Hawaiian Honey House 100 % Hawaii Honey A Hawaii Beekeepers Bed and Breakfast # 1 Mukai Pl., P.O. Box 430 Papaikou, HI 96781 Ph./Fax. 1-808-964-5401 e-mail HiHoney@HawaiiHoney.Com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:57:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >What could you call pancake syrup made from watered down pasteurized and >or preserved honey? "Honey flavored Syrup" "All Natural Honey Flavored Syrup" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:04:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Becky boehm Subject: Re: repair of honey tote HELLO To repair the polyethelene containers go to the nearby farm store and get a plastic welding kit ( it uses hot air and a plastic welding filler rod). All the farm tanks are made of this material and nothing seems to stick to it, believe me Ive tried epoxy, esters, caulks, and solvent welding,,, then I asked at the farm store where they sell those tanks for water and fertilizer and such and they showed me this kit to use. Hope this helps Al Boehm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 05:46:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > Good idea. Now you are talking. Seems to me the time is right for this > dyn-O-mite product. > > Let's (somebody) do it! > > allen Locally we have a few that sell flavored honey, including maple flavored as syryp. Bill Truesdell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 07:55:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: Jackson Horizontal Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Cesar Flores asks:> > Does anyone use the "Jackson Horizontal Hive"? Well, this is a new one on me. Although I can get the idea from the name, might you be able to offer more of a description of the "Jackson Horizontal Hive"? Thanks in advance, Aaron Morris - thinking I haven't yet seen it all! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 07:36:47 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: eat(and drink)more honey In-Reply-To: <200010250327.XAA23913@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ... she lacked the money needed to really promote the > honey syrup product through advertising. The Honey Board might could help. > The last time i was in our local Wal mart super center all creamed honey had > lost its shelf space... > Other than "pure honey" the market has to be built for creamed honey and > syrups.... Allen is correct in his belief we need to find new products. Thanks Bob. Putting a new product on the mass market can be a tricky thing. It is not just a matter of making something that tastes good. It must be introduced in the right way at the right time. Packaging has to be excellent, then there is more... Just because it did not work one place and one time, does not mean it cannot be a runaway hit in another other. For local markets, the matter is much simpler and the risks are less. The opportunities are there. We made a living selling our honey at farmers markets many years ago, and we found the at the more honey products -- up to about ten -- we had at our tables, the better we did and the better we could differentiate ourselves from any competition. We had a successful mail order business for around twenty years (We sold it last year)and we found the same there, except that there is no limit to products you can offer, if they are at all popular. At any rate the most fundamental thing is to have an excellent product, but whether it succeeds or fails depends on much more than that. The cost of the honey in a syrup is not that much more than the sugar in similar products -- in comparison to selling price -- so that is not really an excuse to dismiss the idea. It *can* work and unless we find ways to sell more honey, we will just spend our time fighting over a market that is spiralling down to zero. The Honey Board was a good idea and seemed to have good results early on, but I don't know if it is doing much nowadays. allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:11:44 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home sweet home Subject: Re: eat(and drink)more honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Allen Dick wrote: . Allen is correct in his belief we need to find new products. I saw a great produkt from China plastic bottle ± 1/2 liter. in the cap/cover/lid (?) a little tank/container (about 4 cc.) with honey, maked of soft plastic. bottle in the cooler, before drinking, open the tank/container, shake, drink!! skol... fresh!!!!! cool!!!!! delicious greeting, jan -- Jan Tempelman Kerkstraat 53 NL 7471 AG Goor xx.31.(0)547.275788 mobile: 06 10719917 http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:34:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dina and Don Hess Subject: Re: FW: Jackson Horizontal Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > Well, this is a new one on me. Although I can get the idea from the name, > might you be able to offer more of a description of the "Jackson Horizontal > Hive"? For others who are curious, the reference I found to the Jackson Horizontal Hive was at Rupert's Honey: http://www.rupertshoney.co.za My impression from their description was that it was essentially a topbar-style hive that utilizes frames with-or-without foundation. They also specify the construction material (corrugated plastic), ventillation (a series of holes drilled near the top edge of the sides), and handles. I don't see anything particularly unique about it, personally. The frames are supposed to allow extraction and re-usage of comb as well as decrease comb attachments to the sides. In pictures of their frames without foundation, the comb isn't attached to anything except the top, thus in that case it's functioning like a standard top-bar hive. With regards to managing such a hive, I would refer anyone interested to Jim Satterfield's site: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm - the most detailed site I've found regarding top-bar hives (if anyone knows of a better, feel free to email me :). To me, top bar hives seem like an excellent approach for the hobbyist who isn't necessarily out to maximize honey production and who wants to learn about bees and working with them... seems more "up close and personal" to me. :) Don Hess ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:31:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Daniels Subject: Joe Latshaw Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Someone was telling me about a line of honeybees being developed by Joe Latshaw of Ohio State University in the U.S.A. which are distinct from the New World Carniolan project directed by Sue Cobey at the same institution. Does anyone know of the Latshaw project or have references for his strain of bees? I am particularly interested in the characteristics being sought in the Latshaw strain compared to those of the NWC strain. Thanks, Bill Daniels ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:06:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave and Judy Subject: Re: Honey, labeling, nutrition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This topic, and also the pancake honey syrup topic, is near to my heart. One of my favorite topics during any type of 'honeybee presentation'. The use of the term "US Grade A" on a label. Turn over the bottle and read the back; or put on those cursed reading glasses and read the small print. You often will find the honey contains imported honey. The use of the term leads the consumer to believe the honey is US honey. Hmmm. We know that the term is used to "describe" the product, not its origins. There may be nothing wrong with the Canadian, or Argentinean honey that is used in these "US Grade A" honey containers. However, I firmly believe, the label is misleading. I often buy honey from other places. Love to compare and taste. But I do so knowingly. Before any presentation I go to a local grocer and buy a couple jars of the "US Grade A" honey. (Yeah, I know supporting what I am attempting to end!) But I offer tastes of my honey, and tastes of the US Grade A. And any other honeys that club members may have brought. And I always point out the origin of the honey on the store bought honeys. I cannot count the number of people who will, as they said, remember to "read the label" the next time they buy honey. (Of course, very few of our customers will ever go the grocer for honey ever again! Ahem!) It is an unfortunate state of affairs that we must now take on the additional task of education of always reading ALL parts of the labels. We already spend oodles of time speaking of bees, the need for more beekeepers, the use of local honey, etc. This year I baked up a batch of good ole homemade biscuits, kept them in a Nesco oven with wet paper towels (to avoid drying out) and aluminum foil between the towels and the biscuits. And kept them steaming hot during the whole evening at the county fair. And offered a bit of biscuit along with the taste of the honey. Perhaps next year pancakes will be added to the list. As with everything else we are attempting to help the public learn about honeybees, I have added "Read the Label". And I am outspoken about it. I will accept the responsibility of teaching my corner of Kentucky, USA. And if we each, everyone of us, accept this responsibility for our local area, we will have solved, or at least enlightened the public, about another area and, hopefully, increased the consumption of honey. Not an easy, nor innovative, solution. But one that I can afford to do. While we wait for National Honey Boards to do their share. Judy in Kentucky, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:31:14 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Juderon Subject: Flavoured honey In-Reply-To: <200010251201.IAA00561@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Coffee crystals are simply large crystals of refined sugar with added artificial colouring to make them look like raw sugar. That a con/fraud if ever there was one. When 'flavours' are added to products you are emulating the fraud and downgrading the value of 'natural' honey. 'Natural' is your major point of difference because refined sugar/corn syrup with 'flavour' can be made to look and taste like anything. Maple syrup is good for you. It has anti oxidants, minerals, etc. refined sugar and corn syrup with maple flavour might pass the 'pocket test' ($) and the 'Taste test" but does it add value to well being? Me thinks not. I was at an expo last week and they had herb flavoured honeys produced by bees collecting nectar from real herbs. Low volume, but very high margin. For an industry you have to think big because you have heaps of bulk honey to sell. For individual honey producers the smart money is on thinking small/niche -- that where the big margins are. I did an economic impact report for the NZ bee industry recently (bee products sold as dietary supplements.) what blew me away was how much bee product including honey and bee pollen is sold through low networks, 'flea' markets, Saturday stalls, gate sales, etc. If the Maple 'flavour' is from the maple tree great -- otherwise... Ron Law -----Original Message----- From: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology [mailto:BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu]On Behalf Of Bill Truesdell Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2000 10:47 p.m. To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: Re: Eat (and drink) More Honey Allen Dick wrote: > Good idea. Now you are talking. Seems to me the time is right for this > dyn-O-mite product. > > Let's (somebody) do it! > > allen Locally we have a few that sell flavored honey, including maple flavored as syryp. Bill Truesdell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:57:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Eat and drink more honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a distant observer, I have gathered that in the US you have regular agricultural surpluses, not only of honey but also of the fruits produced as a result of pollination by the agency of honeybees. Perhaps honey producers could get together with growers and combine their products to produce for example Cyser (cider with honey) or Halva (Almonds with honey). That way everybody benefits from the added value product. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:31:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: grumpy7 Subject: Re: FW: Jackson Horizontal Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: FW: Jackson Horizontal Hive > Cesar Flores asks:> > > Does anyone use the "Jackson Horizontal Hive"? Well, I don't know about a "Jackson" horizontal hive, but I designed and built a horizontal, two-queen hive last spring and so far I am pleased with it. There are fifteen medium frames in each end, and ten more in the middle separated by queen excluders from the frames in the end sections. Supers for surplus are stacked on the middle section (which is left for the bees). There are separate lids on each of the three sections. The whole shebang is about seven feet long. The bees seem to like it, and so do I. The main reason for my liking it is because I am lazy (also 73 years old). I don't have to take the supers off to get to the brood boxes, and the brood boxes are only one story tall. Each of the two colonies in this double hive has effectively 20 frames, exclusive of supers. In this latitude (central Louisiana) this is enough all year long. We average 100 pounds per ordinary single hive with our two-medium brood nests. We got this thing set up after the main flow was over, so I don't know yet how it will stack up volume-wise to regular hives. But the way the bees filled up their end-sections with honey and brood and the center section with honey, I expect that it will outproduce two ordinary hives, as most two-queen colonies do. This long hive looks as if it will reap the production benefits of two-queen hives and avoid the work. I'll let you know as the next season gets under way. Walter Weller Wakefield, Louisiana ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:13:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Judy Bagnall Subject: one eight screen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings. I purchased 1/8 inch screen at the local (real) hardware = store Hampton Hardware, Allison Park, Pa however the local Sears = Hardware store also carries the same. Bee Happy Paul Bagnall ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:41:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dan McFeeley Subject: Drink Your Honey! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Allen Dick wrote: >There would be a worldwide shortage of honey if North Americans (not >to mention the rest of the world) simply used one kg of honey each a >year. People on average eat very little honey, but if I remember >correctly, they eat 100 pounds plus of sugar annually. > > Think of the amount of beer and wine that people consume. A mere 1% >of that market going over to mead -- which in my opinion can be a >superior beverage -- would create shortages. Maybe we just need to get the word out on mead. The average person on the street doesn't even know what mead is, never mind its virtues as a fermented beverage. Below is a directory of meaderies in the U.S. which I've posted on the mead-lovers-digest from time to time. Feel free to pass it around! <><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Dan McFeeley mcfeeley@keynet.net UNITED STATES Anderson's Orchard & Winery Berrywine Plantation 430 E. US Hwy Lucille Aellen Valpariso, IN 46383 Linganore Winecellars (219) 464-4936 13601 Glissens Mill Rd www.andersonsvineyard.com Mt. Airy, MD 21771-8595 andwine@niia.net (310) 831-5889 (410) 795-6432 www.linganore-wine.com info@linanore-wine.com White Winter Winery Spurgeon Vineyards & Winery 402 South George St Rt 1 PO Box 636 Box 201 Highland, WI 53543 Iron River, WI 54847 (608) 929-7692 Toll Free: 800-697-2006 www.spurgeonvineyards (715) 372-5656 spurgeon@mhtc.net www.whitewinter.com goodmead@win.bright.net Sky River Brewing Earle Estates Meadery 32533 Cascade View Drive John & Esther Earle P.O. Box 869 3586 Rt. 14 Sultan, WA 98294 Himrod, New York, 14842 (360)793-6761 e-mail: earle@linkny.com http://skyriverbrewing.com Web-address: www.meadery.com Fred's Mead Company HoneyRun Honey Co Fred Buhl John & Amy Hasle 6024 N.W. 54th Terrace Box 3172 Gainesville, FL 32653-3344 Chico, CA, 95928 Phone/FAX: 916-345-6405 Fred's Mead Company World Corporate www.des-chico.com/~honeyrun Headquarters: email: honeyrun@honeyrun.com (352) 381-9003 Toll-free: 1-877-886-9472 Lakewood Vineyards Life Force Honey & Winery Christopher Stamp 1193 Saddle Ridge Rd 4024 SR 14 Moscow, ID 83843 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 208-882-9158 607-535-9252 800-497-8258 www.lakewoodvineyards.com LVwinery@aol.com Little Hungary Farm Winery Pirtle's Weston Vineyards Frank Androczi Elbert & Trisha Pirtle Rt 6, POB 323 502 Spring St, PO Box 247 Buckhannon, WV 26201 Weston, MO 64098 304-472-6634 816-640-5728 http://pirtlewie.com pirtlewie@aol.com Oliver Winery Rocky Mountain Meadery Bill & Kathleen Oliver Fred & Connie Strothman 8024 Hwy 37 3701 G Rd Bloomington, IN Palisade, CO 81526 812-876-5800 970-464-7899 www.wic.net/meadery Volcano Winery WineHaven Winery and Vineyard PO Box 843 9757 292nd Street Volcano, HI 96785 Chisago City, MN 55013 808-967-7479 Phone/Fax (651) 257-1017 www.volcanowinery.com info@winehaven.com marketing: .Avvolcanowinery@aol http://www.winehaven.com/ general information: volcanowine@aol.com Cuthills Vineyards Bartlett Maine Estate Winery Ed Swanson RR1, Box 598 RR2, Box 210 Gouldsboro,ME 04607 Pierce, NE 68767 (207) 546-2408 (402) 329-6774 www.cuthills.com Cask & Hive Winery La Buena Vida Vineyards PO Box 275 416 E College Street 155 Norris Hill Rd. Grapevine, TX Monmouth, ME 04259 (817) 481-9463 (207) 933-WINE http://labuenavidavineyards.com www.cuthills.com Ambrosia by Kristy Meadery Heidrun Meadery 4921 85th Ave West 55 Ericson Court, Suite 4 University Place, WA 98467 Arcata, CA 95521 (253) 307-5156 (707) 825-8748 http://www.wa.net/~ambrosia/ fax (707) 825-8739 Stoney Mesa Winery Jilbert Winery P.O. Box 966 1496 Columbia Rd. 1619 2125 Drive Valley City, Ohio Cedaredge, CO 81413 44280 (970) 856-7572 www.ohiohoneywine.homestead.com http://www.stoneymesa.com Minnesota Wild Winery Mountain Meadows Mead 69 Airport Blvd. Ron Lunder & Peggy Fulder - Meadmakers McGregor, MN 55760 12 Third Street (218) 768-4917 Westwood, California 96137-1199 phone 530.256.3233 fax 530.256.3234 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:45:39 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: pdillon Subject: French Demostration against "Guacho" and other systemic pesticides MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi to everybody, A note to inform that the demonstration in France took place - A GREAT success. It was not pleasant to take this action, but how do you get messages across when blatant scientific facts are being ignored regarding the toxicity of Imidacloprid. To see for yourselves - visit: http://www.apiservices.com/index_us.htm click on "new pages" Photos and other details. Thank you for all the messages of support. Find out if you have this product in your country! and start asking why when evidence is now available proving its toxicity to bees and unacceptable + prolonged soil persistence. Regards Peter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:18:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: Joe Latshaw Bees In-Reply-To: <200010252136.RAA19713@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've received a couple of notes from folks sharing info about the strain of bees being developed by Joe Latshaw, including a note from J. Latshaw himself. Info about Latshaw's work is at: http://www.ohioqueenbreeders.com/ Info about Cobey's NWC is at: http://iris.biosci.ohio-state.edu/honeybee/breeding/NWC.html Thanks to all who responded. Bill Daniels ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:48:57 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Antibiotic Resistance Story MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.msnbc.com/msn/481954.asp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 09:08:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "KAMRAN F FAKHIMZADEH (MMSEL)" Organization: University of Helsinki Subject: VARROA DETECTOR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear friends I just want to draw your attention to the American Bee Journal November issue, News Notes. Varroa was discovered for the first time in St. Kitts and Nevis which is one of the Caribbean countries, with the help of the New Invention (Varroa detector) that we discussed during Sept and October this year. The mites are of the Java haplotype of Varroa jacobsoni and the infestation level were only 4% in samples of 42 bees (average). Regards Kamran Fakhimzadeh Dept. of Applied Biology University of Helsinki kamran.fakhimzadeh@helsinki.fi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:38:37 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Varroa detector MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit KamranFakhimzaeh wrote > Varroa was discovered for the first time > in St. Kitts and Nevis which is one of the Caribbean countries, >The mites are of the Java haplotype of Varroa jacobsoni >From my understanding of the situation, the Java strain, which is the original Varroa jacobsoni, does not reproduce on Apis mellifera and has to have its host, Apis cerana, to survive. I would think that what is present on St. Kitts and Nevis is Varroa destructor if it is reproducing on Apis mellifera. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA