From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 07:55:38 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05189 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:55:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00270 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:58:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141258.HAA00270@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:58:30 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0011C" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 88015 Lines: 1909 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:59:55 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: stephen and gail mitchell Subject: Re pH of honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The main source of acidity in honey is gluconic acid, which is derived from glucose in nectar. The bees make this conversion by adding glucose oxidase when the nectar is being ripened. A brief discussion of this may be found in Hive and the Honey Bee, pp. 877 - 878. Steve ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:59:37 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Juderon Subject: Re: Question on medicinal qualities of honey In-Reply-To: <200011142229.RAA03364@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I severely grazed both knees on a sand/artificial turf playing out door hockey. I applied honey to both knees and was able to walk with no pain from day two. I played hockey the next week and the wounds were completely healed in two weeks. I used plastic and toilet paper with tape on both sides and bottom but not on the top. That enabled me to add fresh honey a couple times a day and I changed the dressing once a day. I've thought about using trimmed sanitary pads next time. (I have no shame!!) Ron Law -----Original Message----- From: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology [mailto:BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu]On Behalf Of Bill Truesdell Sent: Wednesday, 15 November 2000 10:36 a.m. To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: Question on medicinal qualities of honey I recently had my hand operated on and got permission from the doctor to use honey as a dressing. The results so far have been extraordinary. Three weeks after the operation and two weeks of honey treatment all wounds- this was major surgery with one three inch cut across my palm and five other smaller ones of an inch or less on the fingers and palm- are closed with pink skin and no scabbing. Two of the cuts are completely closed with minimal scarring. I have most movement back- am typing this with both hands. The doctor is impressed and wants to write a paper on it. I gave him some of the papers from the manakua honey tests. My sister-in-law, who is an Occupational Therapist, told me before the operation that it would be a few months before I would be where I am in only three weeks. The honey healed the hand without scabs forming, so the healing was never interrupted by my flexing my hands, which is required so it does not stiffen up. If there were scabs, they would have opened and slowed the healing. Plus, it would have been painful flexing my hand with scabbing so I would not be able to have the amount of movement I now have. Unbelievable stuff, honey. Here is the question. The honey is raw in the strictest sense of the term. I do not heat it at all. But I was wondering about long term storage of raw honey for wound treatment and if granulation decreases its efficacy? That seems to me to be a major drawback to its use if it does. The other is you need a patient who is willing to use it. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME who says you have been picking on a disabled person and would sue, but all the lawyers are in Florida. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 08:55:29 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: MattAllan@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Question on medicinal qualities of honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit More anecdotal support. Some years ago, I foolishly grasped a metal bar which had been in a bonfire, and burned the palm of my hand. I applied honey straight away and put on a dressing. For the next three days I renewed the honey and dressing regularly. The skin healed cleanly, quickly, and without pain. (In the interests of science, I should have carried out a trial on the other hand, and not treated it ....) Matthew J Allan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 06:42:34 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael palmer Subject: Re: weak fall hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I replied to this the other day. While packing bees later in the day, I realized - I just hit reply. Must have forgotten where I was. Good ole Bee-L. Anyway--- What does "completely stocked" mean? I believe that you can feed too much syrup to a colony in preparation for winter. Don't forget that bees need clustering space. This isn't just the space between the combs, but also the empty cells within the combs. If everything is filled with syrup, the clustering space is used up. The slabs of syrup divide the cluster, and act as a heat sink, stealing heat from the cluster. Weigh your colonies to feed them the correct amount of syrup. A two story colony with no honey weighs about 70 lbs. Add to that the weight of the honey needed to over winter. I would think that in New Jersey a colony should weigh about 135 lbs. That would leave about 65 lbs of feed. Winter the colonies one above another, with a solid inner cover (one with the escape hole closed) between them. Each will need an upper entrance. Or, you could winter each on top of a strong colony with the inner cover between them. Up north, many nucleus colonies are sucessfully overwintered this way. Curtis Crowell wrote: If the hives are not completely "stocked" for winter, I assume > I can leave the feeders in until spring, filling them up as weather permits. > > It occurred to me that I might also combine weak hives, placing an Imrie > shim between the > two to conserve heat. > l > > / ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:29:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Question on medicinal qualities of honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Truesdell wrote > > But I was wondering about long term storage of raw honey > > for wound > > treatment and if granulation decreases its efficacy? Nick Wallingford wrote: > For anyone interested in honey for wound healing, I'd certainly suggest a > thorough look around at http://honey.bio.waikato.ac.nz/contents.shtml, Dr > Peter Molan's work over at Waikato University, There is a short note on re-heating honey to liquefy it at the link (It has a wealth of info and it is where I got the papers I gave to the doctor). But I am looking for the effects of long term storage with crystallization/granulation. That was not explicit in the write up at the link. The glucose sugar is the one that crystallizes and glucose oxidase is the key component for hydrogen peroxide formulation at the wound/honey interface. How it tied in with the sugar? Is it also crystallized? All I have read is that glucose oxidase is the main difference between honey and other treatments at the wound/honey interface. When it comes in contact with moisture it breaks down to gluconic acid and hydrogen peroxide. It is easily destroyed by heating, hence the need for "raw" honey. It is honey's natural preservative. It keeps the nectar sterile when there is high moisture until the honey reaches a low moisture content. Then it is effectively inert, since now the osmotic pressure of the honey kills live bacteria. A very efficient operation. When honey granulates/crystallizes, is free water released or is it tied up in the sugar complex? If it is released, is it able to react with the glucose oxidase and reduce its concentration hence its efficacy in wound healing? Is there a gradual decrese to zero or does it reach a set minimum? Or is the glucose oxidase tied up with the sugar and non reactive? By the way. As stated in another post concerning the acidity of honey, the gluconic acid formed by the reaction of water with glucose oxidase is the reason for the strong acidity of honey, which means you have another bacteria inhibitor at the honey/wound interface. In addition, the concentrated sugars add high osmotic pressures to kill live bacteria and- supposedly- other components, such as sugars, vitamins and minerals, feed the growing skin. The "feeding" was in some of the literature I read, but I am not sure if it is an actual component of healing since it seemed to be thrown in as a possibility more than a probability. In any case, there are many things at work when honey is used for wound dressing. If you use honey that has been heated to the point where you kill the enzymes you will lose the hydrogen peroxide and acid environment. Medicine already uses concentrated sugars to do the same thing as heated honey does. Hence my question on the viability of glucose oxidase in crystallized honey. It is what makes the difference. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:54:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Question on medicinal qualities of honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MattAllan@AOL.COM wrote: (In the interests of science, I should have carried out a trial on the > other hand, and not treated it ....) Interesting, since that is what the doctor jokingly suggested. My adherence to pure science went out the window. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME who did volunteer the Doctor's hand as a control. He also declined. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:32:16 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Question on medicinal qualities of honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > I severely grazed both knees on a sand/artificial turf > playing out door > hockey. > > I applied honey to both knees and was able to walk with no > pain from day > two. I played hockey the next week and the wounds were > completely healed in > two weeks. I burned both my hands badly when I accidentally put them into a microwave oven. Only 3 days after applying honey, I was able to play the violin in a concert. It was truly amazing - I've never been able to play the violin before. (Moderator: I'll understand if this one doesn't make the cut - I couldn't resist it!) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 07:29:30 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Question on medicinal qualities of honey In-Reply-To: <200011151039.FAA14342@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I've thought about using trimmed sanitary pads next time. The poultry (Dri-loc-50) pads used for applying formic acid would likely work well on larger areas or on animals, seeing as they are tissue is entirely enclosed with plastic. Tiny perforations on one side allow for migration of fluids in and out of the pad. For those who may not know what I am talking about, they are the pads used in meat counters for absorbing the fluids from meat within the packaging and can absorb up to 50 ml of fluid. We use them for applying formic in Canada. They cost 2c each. allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 09:28:43 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kevin Gibbs Subject: Re: Question on medicinal qualities of honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From my own experience you do not have to heat granulated honey for treating skin abrasions or cuts. If you apply the granulated honey to the dressing that contacts the abrasion and tape it into place you will find the honey is not granulated when dressing is removed, either body heat or moisture sort this out. As a side note buyers in NZ request manuka honey is not heated above 35 C during extraction processing to avoid damage to enzymes helpful in healing. Many people have altered baffle tanks, heat exchanges etc. to conform. One of the nicest surprises using honey on abrasions is when removing, dressings never stick to the wound Kevin Gibbs > If you use honey that has been heated to the point where you kill the > enzymes you will lose the hydrogen peroxide and acid environment. Medicine > already uses concentrated sugars to do the same thing as heated honey does. > Hence my question on the viability of glucose oxidase in crystallized > honey. It is what makes the difference. > > Bill Truesdell > Bath, ME > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 15:08:56 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: TM in Crisco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan, I might be the bee lister of whom you are referring. I have kept bees for 68 years, since 1933, most of those years keeping from 50 to 135 colonies spread in 4 counties in both Maryland and Virginia, and have suffered AFB either 5 or 6 times (not 13 or 14), burning a total of about 15 colonies; and I have never used TM one single time because I do not want to hide the symptoms of AFB. Rather I want to find it, and destroy that colony before other colonies, honey, tools, honey house, all bee equipment such as hive bodies, frames, queen excluders, bottom boards, inner covers, etc., are infected with AFB. In 1922, one colony out of every 3 or 4 colonies over the entire U. S. was infected with AFB when Dr. James I. Hambleton became Chief Apiculturist of the United States Dept. of Agriculture. His first act was to establish bee inspection programs in all 48 states, and intensely educate beekeepers about AFB. Dr. Hambleton and my family attended the same church in Bethesda, MD and Dr. Hambleton became my m entor when I started keeping bees in June of 1933. Because of the bee inspection system, AFB infection over the U. S. is down to about 1%-2% of all colonies now, but increasing because some states have discontinued bee inspection and new beekeepers have erroneously been led to believe that TM kills AFB. The fact is that TM only hides the presence of AFB and keeps the bees alive until a dose of TM is missed. This is almost identical to the use of insulin to treat a diabetic, whereas a diabetic can maintain an active life for a long time as long as they get their insulin dose every day. My wife is a diabetic. The old cliche is true - An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I much prefer to diligently keep my apiary clean of AFB then be saddled with diseased hives that required treatment at least twice each year and know that I can't sell, loan, or give away a single piece of woodware to anyone else because it is diseased and will infect their clean bees. I would like very much to see TM banned from sale or use with bees. That would surely get rid of many beeHAVERS and make them into beeKEEPERS. I will wager that you do not daily take some antibiotic as preventive medicine, because your doctor can explain to you that by using that antibiotic daily makes the germs that you are trying to avoid RESISTANT. Perhaps you are not aware of it, but Shimanuki and other scientists have been working on a new strain of AFB that is resistant to TM, possibly caused by the continued use of TM over the last 40 years. Lastly, both Shim and I were speakers in October at the annual meeting of Tennessee Beekeepers, and Shim gave out the following figures: One AFB larval scale contains about 2.5 billion AFB spores. The LD50 chance of a hive becoming infected with AFB is the presence of just 35 spores in the hive. Hence, just ONE AFB larval scale has the potential of contaminating 70,000 bee hives. 2.5 billion divided by 35 = 70,000 I certainly don't want to HIDE the symptoms of AFB, but rather I want to see those symptoms so I can destroy that colony before it infects my other colonies. I hope that I have convinced you that the use of TM is detrimental to beekeeping. George Imirie Certified Master Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:22:24 +0100 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home sweet home Subject: Re: Question on medicinal qualities of honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glucose-oxidase (hydrogen-peroxide ) can easy be detected http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html Glucose-oxidase (H2O2/HMF) determination is found zero then: - the honey was heated too long or at too high a temperature. - if the honey contains vitamin C, the H2 O2 is used to oxidize the vitamin, and the amount of H2 O2 is less. Thijm(Thymus spp.) and Mint(Mentha spp.) honey contains vitamin C. - if the honey contains the enzyme katalase, the katalase is used to split the H2 O2 (into water and oxygen). Katalase is a component of some pollen. regards, jant -- Jan Tempelman Kerkstraat 53 NL 7471 AG Goor xx.31.(0)547.275788 mobile: 06 10719917 http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 15:57:56 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: alacat Subject: Therapeutic, medicinal qualities of honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit With regard to the question currently being raised about honey's therapeutic benefit(s), I offer the following information. It is not intended to be a definitive statement of honey's healing qualities, rather just a glimpse of honey's wonderful and fascinating qualities. It is also not to be construed as a commercial advertisement for Maneuka honey. Lawrence In the British Journal of Surgery, Vol/Iss/Pg.3/5 (343-346), ISSN; 0179-0358, a study: Clinical Observations on the Wound Healing Properties of Honey provides the following information: "Fifty-nine patients with wounds and ulcers most of which (90 per cent) had failed to heal with conventional treatment were treated with unprocessed honey. Fifty-eight cases showed remarkable improvement following topical application of honey. One case, later diagnosed as Buruli ulcer, failed to respond. Wounds that were sterile at the outset, remained sterile until healed, while infected wounds and ulcers became sterile within one week of topical application of honey. Honey healed wounds rapidly, replacing sloughs with granulation tissue. It also promoted rapid epithelialization, and absorption of edema from arouond the ulcer margins". Source: Natural Medicine from Honey Bees, Jacob Kaal, pg. 69-70, Kaal's Printing House, Amsterdam, 1991. http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/zfp-hah073100.html FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: 1 AUGUST 2000 Contact: Mary Ann Johnson mjohnson@zfpartners.com 415-268-5421 Zuckerman Fernandes & Partners Honey as healer Ancient healer effective in treating infected skin lesions Jem Bonnievale was 15 when he contracted meningococcal septicemia caused by an infection of Neisseria meningitidis. By the time the British teenager reached the hospital, he had multiple purple batches on his legs and fingers, which rapidly progressed to tissue death. Both legs were amputated below the knee as well as fingers on both hands. He endured multiple skin grafts and suffered for months with non-healing infected sores. His case was extreme and difficult to treat because of the severe pain it caused. "I can't even begin to explain how painful it was just to have a small piece of dressing changed. The nurses tried everything to make it easier, like changing the dressing in the bath, but it was agony," said Jem. Over the next six months the success of the grafts was variable and the sores showed heavy growth of Pseudomonas and Staphlococcus aureus. All traditional treatments were tried without success. When nothing else had any effect on the chronic infected sores, clinical nurse Cheryl Dunford and her colleagues turned to honey. Dressing pads impregnated with sterilized active manuka honey from New Zealand were applied to one leg and a traditional dressing to the other leg. Within a few days, the honey dressed leg showed a reduction of wound bacteria. Both legs were then treated with the honey dressings. Within 10 weeks, all lesions were healed. Jem was released from the hospital, fitted with artificial legs and is getting on with his life. The use of honey as medicine is mentioned in the most ancient written records. Today scientists and doctors are rediscovering the effectiveness of honey as a wound treatment. Dr. Peter Molan, Professor of Biochemisty at Waikato University, New Zealand has been on the forefront of honey research for 20 years. He heads the university's Honey Research Unit, which is internationally recognized for its expertise in the antimicrobial properties of honey. Clinical observations and experimental studies have established that honey has effective antibacterial and anti-inflammatory properties. It painlessly removes pus, scabs and dead tissue from wounds and stimulates new tissue growth. "Randomized trials have shown that honey is more effective in controlling infection in burn wounds than silver sulphadiazine, the antibacterial ointment most widely used on burns in hospitals" says Dr. Molan. The significance of the case of the British teenager, as reported in the June issue of Nursing Times, is that it is the first case in which honey was used on multiple meningococcal skin lesions. The antibacterial action was evident as the mixed infection of Pseudomonas and Enterococcus cleared from the lesions in a few weeks and the number of colonizing staphylococci diminished to a harmless level. Dr. Molan believes that if honey were used from the start in cases of meningococcal septicemia, there would be far less tissue damage resulting. "The remarkable ability of honey to reduce inflammation and mop up free radicals should halt the progress of the skin damage like it does in burns, as well as protecting from infection setting in," said Dr. Molan. "At present, people are turning to honey when nothing else works. But there are very good grounds for using honey as a therapeutic agent of first choice." Researchers believe that the therapeutic potential of honey is grossly underutilized. It is widely available in most communities and although the mechanism of action of several of its properties remains obscure and needs further investigation, the time has now come for conventional medicine to look at this traditional remedy. With increasing interest in the use of alternative therapies and as the development of antibiotic-resistant bacteria spreads, honey may finally receive its due recognition as a wound healer. http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/zuck-ham120699.html E: 30 NOVEMBER 1999 Contact: Mary Ann Johnson mjohnson@zfpartners.com 415-268-5421 Zuckerman Fernandes & Partners Honey as medicine Australia Produces a World's First Australia achieved a world-first on November 30, 1999 with the release of a pure honey treatment for wounds and sores - MEDIHONEY® Developed in association with Capilano Honey Limited and researched by the Agency for Food and Fiber Sciences and the University of Waikato Honey Research Unit in New Zealand, MEDIHONEY® is the first topical honey product in the world to achieve Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) listing in Australia. Capilano Honey National Operations Manager Anthony Moloney said public feedback from this initial release would provide important information to help further research and development. Further clinical trials are also being proposed by a number of Australian research institutions. "Now that consumers have the assurance of TGA listing, a limited amount of the product is being released for public use," he said. "We want members of the public who try it to tell us how the product works for them." Scientific literature shows that highly active antimicrobial honey from the nectar of particular Leptospermum trees has been used to successfully heal a wide variety of wounds and infections which have not responded to other treatments. Research conducted by Associate Professor Dr P.C. Molan at University of Waikato Department of Biological Sciences in New Zealand, has shown that the antimicrobial component of the Leptospermum honey is particularly effective against virulent 'Golden Staph' (Staphylococcus aureus) bacteria - even when diluted more than 50 times. The use of honey as a wound dressing goes back to ancient times and has continued into present-day folk medicine. It is used as a traditional therapy for infected leg ulcers in Ghana, and as a traditional therapy in Mali for the topical treatment of measles, and in the eyes of patients to prevent corneal scarring. It is a common observation in medical journal reports that numerous benefits result from using honey to dress wounds: The viscosity of honey provides a protective barrier to prevent wounds becoming infected. Honey creates a moist healing environment that allows skin cells to re-grow across a healing wound flush with the surface of the wound, thus preventing deformity of the skin. (If a dry scab forms on a wound the skin cells can only grow across the wound deeper down where it is moist.) Honey causes scabs and dead cells to lift off the surface of the wound, leaving a clean healthy wound bed in which re-growth of tissue can occur. Honey stimulates the re-growth of tissue involved in the healing process. It stimulates the formation of new blood capillaries and the growth of fibroblasts that replace the connective tissue of the deeper layer of the skin and produce the collagen fibers that give strength to the repair. In addition honey stimulates the growth of epithelial cells that form the new skin cover over a healed wound. Honey thus prevents scarring and keloid formation, and removes the need for skin grafting even with quite large wounds. Honey does not stick to the underlying wound tissues, so there is no tearing away of newly formed tissue, and no pain, when dressings are changed. Honey has an anti-inflammatory action, which reduces the swelling around a wound. This improves circulation and thus hastens the healing process. It also reduces pain. The amount of fluid exuding from wounds is also decreased by the anti-inflammatory action. The high sugar content of honey draws lymph out of a wound, which lifts dirt out of the wound bed. Honey prevents the odor that is commonly associated with serious wounds and skin ulcers, by clearing bacterial infection, and more immediately, by providing sugar to any bacteria present. In this environment, lactic acid is produced instead of the smelly by-products of the degradation of protein. Honey rapidly clears infection from wounds. It is fully effective even with antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria. Unlike antiseptics and antibiotics there is no impairment of the healing process through adverse effects on wound tissues. Honey researchers feel that the therapeutic potential of honey is grossly underutilized. It is widely available in most communities and although the mechanism of action of several of its properties remains obscure and needs further investigation, the time has now come for conventional medicine to look at this traditional remedy. With increasing interest in the use of alternative therapies and as the development of antibiotic-resistant bacteria spreads, honey may finally receive its due recognition. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 01:24:52 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dan McFeeley Subject: Re: Question on medicinal qualities of honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:29:54 -0500 Bill Truesdell wrote: >> > But I was wondering about long term storage of raw honey >> > for wound treatment and if granulation decreases its efficacy? Granulation proceeds rapidly at about 57 degrees F but is retarded below 50 degrees F and nearly ceases below 40 degrees F. Best way to slow granulation is to keep your honey in the freezer! >All I have read is that glucose oxidase is the main difference between >honey and other treatments at the wound/honey interface. When it comes in >contact with moisture it breaks down to gluconic acid and hydrogen >peroxide. It is easily destroyed by heating, hence the need for "raw" >honey. Sort of, but not exactly. The process is much more complex! Loosely described, glucose oxidase facilitates the production of gluconolactone and hydrogen peroxide, the lactone then hydrolizes and changes to gluconic acid. The rate at which the lactone hydrolizes to gluconic acid is pH dependent. At pH 8.0 the process is rapid, at about pH 3.0 the process slows down and stops. But yes, heating destroys the enzymes in honey and as a result, stops the active process of acid and hydrogen peroxide production. Also, hydrogen peroxide is sensitive to light, so you'll need to keep your medicinal honey in the dark. It's also been found that hydrogen peroxide alone does not fully account for the antibacterial properties of manuka honey. Some phenolic compounds have been identified as having antibacterial action ("Antibacterial phenolic compounds in New Zealand manuka honey" Food Chemistry, vol. 64, no. 3, 1999), but the remaining compounds have yet to be identified. <><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Dan McFeeley mcfeeley@keynet.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 20:09:36 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Brian Bauer Subject: Re: Question on medicinal qualities of honey In-Reply-To: <200011151359.IAA16162@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a novice beekeeper and have accumulated 30 hives, I learn by books, trial and error, and by doing. I read about this medicinal stuf and never tried it until all this email came to me from the Bee line. On Sunday I was extracting honey and cut my finger tip while cleaning the extractor and applied honey to the wound the next day and 24 hour later it is almost healed I could almost see the skin growing back, it will be healed tomorrow. My wife is an immediate believer and began applying to herself with the same results. Brian Bauer healed by honey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:24:13 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: grumpy7 Subject: Robotic imitation of foraging behavior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the current issue of "Science News" (November 11, 2000, Vol. 158, No. 20, pp.314-316) is an article by Ivars Peterson describing work by Laurent Keller and coworkers at the University of Lausanne, Switzerland, in which small (2 inches on a side) motile robots were used to reproduce the foraging behavior of social insects. The little robots had a "nest", a means of sensing the level of "food" stored in the nest, and a switch which triggered foraging behavior when the "food" level fell to a set point (different for different individuals). When a robot was activated by the closing of this switch, it left the nest and roamed the area (9 square meters) searching for tokens representing "food". When it found "food" it transported the token back to the "nest". In some of the robotic experiments, "... one robot could enlist another if it happened to identify a resource-rich area." [method of communication was not described.] The point of the work was to investigate ways to develop robust self-organizing systems for finding alternative traffic routes over congested telephone lines and novel algorithms for governing how robots operating completely independently would work together. According to Peterson, the effort was inspired by observations of the activities of ants. There is apparently a goodly amount of work of this sort being done, which has been reported at three recent conferences (two in Paris, one in Brussels) dedicated to this general subject-area. The whole idea seems to fit with the opinion held by many that social insects are simple organic robots, pre-programmed and unconscious, that respond to stimuli (and combinations of stimuli) in set ways. There is nothing resembling planning, decision-making, or control of one individual by others in any of the complex behaviors of a colony; just the meshing of individual responses to environmental cues. I wish the article had described the means of recruitment of additional foragers. Walter Weller ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:01:43 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: pdillon Subject: English translation of "Beekeeping hit in full flight" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi to all, Many individuals have commented on the fact that the reasons behind the recent french beekeepers demonstration were only on the net in French - a problem! I have at last managed to find time to translate into English - It makes for good reading and again explains why we are fighting for the removal of the molecule Imidacloprid from the market. This problem will not remain in the backyard of other beekeepers, as many others are now experiencing what we had several years back. If you wish to read the article then Go to http://www.beekeeping.com/index_us.htm then click on "New Pages" then click on "16/11/00 - A Stricken Sector of Production in Apiculture: Beekeeping, hit in full flight". Send me your comments - what a silly invitation! Regards Peter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:44:11 -0000 Reply-To: John Burgess Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Burgess Subject: Re: High Voltage Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As the potential effects of power lines would diminish rapidly with distance, would those who have experienced some or no effect give an indication of the height of the lines above the hives? John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru/The Welsh Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 08:21:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Swintosky, Michael D." Subject: Re: Question on medicinal qualities of honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" An interesting book is "Honey, Mud, Maggots and Other Medical Marvels, The Science Behind Folk Remedies and Old Wives' Tales" by Robert Root-Bernstein and Michele Root-Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:51:27 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: huestis Subject: young people & comb honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Has anyone on the list come up with any good ideas to get young people = to eat comb honey? Anyone with any good marketing strategies to do = this? Since I'm only 25 and can understand the # 1 reason young people = don't eat comb honey. Which I believe is they've never had it! = Fortunately for me my father was a beekeeper and I was allowed to have = some comb. My only idea was to cut up a few sections into 1 inch = pieces and charge 50 cents. This way kids (anyone) could try some comb = without being concerned with the price or whether or not they like it. = Please send comment and suggestions. Clayton Huestis Crown Point, NY 45 colonies & wanting to ensure the generation will still like comb = honey! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 11:09:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: young people & comb honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > My only idea was to cut up a few sections into 1 inch > pieces and charge 50 cents. Smaller pieces, lower price (like free samples). Aaron Morris - thinking you can't beat free! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:19:08 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Stevens Subject: barrel pumps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has any one out there used a barral pump to pump honey directly from barrels to tanks. These are stainless shafts with a built in pump that you put through the bung hole of the barrel. Do they work on cold honey or does the honey need to be heated first? Do they stand up to heavy use? Bob Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 13:19:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Re: young people & comb honey In-Reply-To: <200011171602.LAA25885@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >My only idea was to cut up a few sections into 1 inch = >pieces and charge 50 cents. This way kids (anyone) could try some comb = >without being concerned with the price or whether or not they like it. = Clayton, Recal reading in my very old edition of the ABC&XYZ that the Root Company once produced very small squares of comb honey for use in the dining cars of passenger trains. In the quantities they were operating with, I think granulation ultimately became an insurmountable problem. Sounds like a great idea for a honey stand at a fair our festival. Let me know if you come up with a good packaging solution for this. I also have had trouble selling comb honey (though not chunk honey) here in South. Greg ______________________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Seven Lakes Times, L.L.C. ghankins@ac.net P.O. Box 602 Voice: (910)673-0111 1008 Seven Lakes Drive Fax: (910)673-0210 Seven Lakes, NC 27376 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:57:03 -0600 Reply-To: busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob and Elizabeth Harrison Subject: Re: barrel pumps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Stevens wrote: > > Has any one out there used a barral pump to pump honey directly from > barrels to tanks. These are stainless shafts with a built in pump that > you put through the bung hole of the barrel. Do they work on cold > honey or does the honey need to be heated first? Do they stand up to > heavy use? Bob Stevens Hello Bob, Maxant makes a pump which i have used. The pump belongs to Mid Con in Olathe,Kansas. The pump has around a 2 in. diameter tube with a auger inside. The tube and shaft are stainless. The pump and motor are painted orange with Maxant on the cover. You can transfer a 55 gallon drum of cold syrup in about 20-25 minutes. I believe Cecil said he uses the pump to transfer cappings when he is extracting also. I don't know if the pump will go thru a 2 in. bung hole as we always pumped from open top drums. Hope i have helped. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 20:41:42 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: High Voltage Bees In-Reply-To: <200011171152.GAA21844@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <200011171152.GAA21844@listserv.albany.edu>, John Burgess writes >would those who have experienced some or no effect give an >indication of the height of the lines above the hives? Hello John, This varies a lot according to the topography of the area, but in the case of the large pylon site previously described the hives will be about 50 feet below the lowest sets of lines. There are three pairs of lines on each side of the pylon, and a single line on the top. I was there today finishing off the last of the winter feeding at that spot. All was well. 41 colonies within the footprint of the pylon and all have taken all their food and are looking good for winter. -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 23:49:50 -0000 Reply-To: Gavin Ramsay Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Varroa tolerance revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear All What do my fellow Bee-Listers make of the recent research on the prospects for Varroa-tolerant bees? Not the Russian bees, it is pretty clear that those who tried them had some problems as they inter-bred with local types. More interesting, as far as I am concerned, is bringing out potential Varroa resistance in the bees we already look after. The honey bee breeding folk at Baton Rouge have published a string of papers on the traits found in all-American colonies with a degree of Varroa tolerance. The implications of this fine work are great: Varroa resistance is out there, and those who are expert enough to practise bee breeding just have to identify it and apply selection to the tolerance traits already in our bees. There seems to be no reason why we cannot have high levels of resistance in our own strains of bees if we really want it. If I can summarise the findings in their April 1999 paper (Harbo and Harris 1999. Heritability in honey bees of characteristics associated with resistance to Varroa jacobsoni. Journal of Economic Entomology 92, 261-265): · they used 28 colonies set up so that each one in a group of 4 was headed by full sisters from 7 unrelated queens. · the analysis permitted them to determine how heritable were a range of traits which could give the Varroa tolerance seen in the mother queens. · heritable traits were 'suppression of mite reproduction' (partly due to defective male mites produced on those bees), 'duration of capped period' (not enough time to give full mite multiplication), 'hygienic behaviour' (tossing out infected brood), and 'proportion of mites in brood cells' (if they're not there, they won't breed). · the levels of heritability implied that good progress would be made if selection was applied. Several of these traits are readily scored, and I know that some enthusiasts in the UK are already selecting hygienic bees. The question now is: has anyone tried putting these recommendations for Varroa resistance into practise? Perhaps those that have practised selection for any trait would like to comment - how feasible is it to combine several traits in one colony by selection? Gavin. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 23:22:43 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: afb in foundation Greetings I posted recently about AFB in wax. I mentioned that I worked making foundation for 5 or 6 years. It's been 20 years now, so I don't remember the exact temperatures, but the process involved melting down raw wax in one thousand pound batches. The wax was placed in a large tank which contained a foot or so of water and at this point, temperatures probably were around boiling (100 C/212 F). The melted wax then went into a large agitator tank where we added activated charcoal, diatomateous earth, and powdered clay. This slurry was pumped through a commercial filter press (layers of paper between aluminum plates) which removed the powders along with most impurities, such as propolis. The temperature here was probablyaround 250+ F. The result was much lighter colored than what went in. We used brown to dark yellow wax to make the straw colored wax for foundation. Lighter grades - lemon yellow would come out almost pure white by this process. This was mostly used in the cand! le business, where any off white hues would affect the color of the candle (we had some 30 colors we featured). So the processing was designed to remove the color, not the AFB spores. But I doubt AFB could survive this much processing. Plus, only a small percent of the wax would have come from infected hives. I don't have any scientific data on this, but I have been looking for it. Peter Borst Ithaca, NY USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 00:30:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Varroa tolerance revisited Gavin wrote: What do my fellow bee-Listers make of the recent research on the prospects for varroa tolerant bees? Hello Gavin & all, I love to respond when i can freely give my opinion. First let me say anyone doing queen rearing should be selecting for hygenic bees even if mites were not a problem. Second there is not a huge amount of proof varroa tolerant genes are passed on. All bee research is worthwhile. Exploring all areas of the possible varroa solutions is the only way a solution will be found. Two years ago at a talk given by our state entomoligist "Mr. Ray Nabors" I asked how long he thought before a truly *varroa tolerant bee* would be found. His answer after careful thought was 20 years. I believe there are several researchers which have been breeding for varroa tolerant bees for about ten years so maybe we will see a varroa tolerant bee within the next ten years. Maybe we won't. In my operation breeding from survivors is not a option. Economics. I also buy my queens so selection for the different traits i leave to the experts. I have raised queens for my own use but when i need queens there are not any mature drones for her to mate with. Most midwestern beekeepers would raise their own queens if they had mature drones in early March. I know of no way to get bees to raise drones in Missouri in early March. If you know of a method please respond! I personally believe a varroa tolerant bee will need other IPM measures to be productive at least at the start. Drone brood removal, Open mesh floors and above all they will need to be hygenic and be able to remove mites from cells and by grooming. In my opinion hobbiest beekeepers are likely to be able to use those bees successfully before commercial beekeepers. When the *bugs* are worked out of the strain then commercial beekeepers will start using the strain. I commend and encourage those beekeepers doing selection from their hives and breeding for varroa tolerance. Please post your results on the various bee lists. Please be honest and list the bad with the good. I try to read all the lists but time is the item i am in short supply of so I have tried not to post unless i feel i can really add to the discussion. One of the most promising IPM methods i have heard about is the results from small cell use. Dee Lusbys results certainly get your attention. I will be using the 4.9mm foundation on a small scale and hope to see for myself. I believe more IPM methods will be found in the next couple years and the issue of small cell versus large cell will be solved to everyones satisfaction over the next couple years. Without a chemical which kills 100% of varroa our problem will only get worse. Chemical resistance is comming. The U.S. did exactly like Europe and only used one chemical *fluvalinate*. In about the same time period resistance showed up. Those are my views on the issue. Maybe others will post their views. I commend all bee research and we indeed need quite a bit of additional research. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 09:57:59 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: afb in foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All On a slightly different track...In a recent post from Peter Borst... He said... "The melted wax then went into a large agitator tank where we added activated charcoal, diatomateous earth, and powdered clay. This slurry was pumped through a commercial filter press (layers of paper between aluminum plates) which removed the powders along with most impurities, such as propolis." What is diatomateous earth? Has anyone tried Bentonite wine finings for purifying wax? I will try this when I can get some Wyoming Bentonite powder. How long was the agitation? Best Regards, Dave Cushman G8MZY Email: dave.cushman@lineone.net Website...Beekeeping and Bee Breeding http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 10:11:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "" Subject: afb in foundation Dave Cushman wrote: What is diatomateous earth? Has anyone tried Bentonite wine finings for purifying wax? Bentonite is a trade name for diatomateous earth. Diatomateous earth is extremely fine fossilized sea life. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 14:12:29 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: afb in foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/18/00 12:36:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, bhack@JETSTREAM.NET writes: > Bentonite is a trade name for diatomateous earth. Nah Bentonite is a colloidal clay that swells up when wet. Diatomaceous earth is mostly silica remains of ancient microorganisms on ancient seabeds. It has all manner of nooks and crannies which makes it a good filtering agent. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 13:03:35 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: afb in foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Bentonite is a trade name for diatomateous earth. > Diatomateous earth is extremely fine fossilized sea life. This is untrue. Each is a separate and distinct product, as any quick web search will prove. allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:55:07 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: pdillon Subject: Re: afb in foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bentonite is a term that is usually restricted to aggregates of clay formed in situ alteration of volcanic ash. The clay type that results is Smectite. The composition of the Smectite varies greatly among bentonites. Diatomaceous earth is the result of accumulations of siliceous sediment, made up more or less entirely of the skeletal remains of microscopic plants called Diatoms. It is exceedingly fine grained, incoherent and highly absorbent. Peter ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 08:30:44 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael palmer Subject: Re: Varroa tolerance revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob - You know, It really isn't that hard to have early queens. Thing is, you have to raise them the summer before. Here in northern Vermont I raise my queens in July. At that time of year there are plenty of drones, and the weather is usually cooperative. I use 4-frame nucs, two in a hive body with a divider in between. Start with a frame and a half of brood, a comb of honey, and one empty comb (and of course enough bees to take care of it all). Give them a queen cell within three days. Most will raise a queen, and be strong enough to winter. Winter them above a strong colony. You'll be amazed how well they do. The best will do almost as well as overwintered colonies. For example - This past May, my nucs had 4 frames of brood when I transferred them to 10 frame equipment. 12 days later, the best had as many as 8 combs of brood. They absolutely explode when the dandelion flow starts. This is just a good example of why I believe that overwintering nucleus colonies is the "salvation" of the northern beekeeping operation. Make up some nuc boxes this winter and give it a try. Michael Palmer St. Albans, Vermont Bob Harrison wrote: > I have raised queens for my own use but when i need queens there are not any > mature drones for her to mate with. Most midwestern beekeepers would raise > their own queens if they had mature drones in early March. I know of no way > to get bees to raise drones in Missouri in early March. If you know of a > method please respond! > Sincerely, > Bob Harrison > Odessa, Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 02:56:54 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ellen Anglin Subject: Re: young people & comb honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii At Eastern Market, In Detriot, there used to be a beekeeper who sold 1 inch cubes of comb honey with a small stick (toothpick?) stuck into it for easy handling- he called them honey pops and sold them for a nominal charge to the kids being dragged around the vegetable stands by their parents. They seemed to go over pretty well too- he always had a dish of them covered by a clear dome front and center on his table. Ellen Anglin --- Greg Hankins wrote: > >My only idea was to cut up a few sections into 1 > inch = > >pieces and charge 50 cents. This way kids (anyone) > could try some comb = > >without being concerned with the price or whether > or not they like it. = > > Clayton, > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Nov 0100 17:13:57 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Tooley Subject: afb There is a diatomaceous earth mine just over the mountain from where I live in Northern California.Its at an elevation of about 3000 ft.The stuff is taken out of an open pit mine and processed by heating somehow then bagged.It is used for all kinds of filtering ,a lot being used for swimming pools.It has the appearence of walls of solid white chalk where roads have been cut through it.My kids used to break off chunks of it to mark off hop scotch squares. In my 1945 edition of ABC and XYZ it states:"It should be explained that the spores of AFB can stand boiling for 5 hours and in many cases retain their vitality to germinate and grow on culture media although under such long boiling they may lose their virulence...." --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using InterStar WebMail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 20:26:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael W Stoops Subject: Re: Source of drones in early spring Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >From: Bob Harrison >Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000, 0:30> > I know of no way > to get bees to raise drones in Missouri in early March. If you know of a > method please respond! Possible method for raising drones, open for speculation and rebuttal. Set up a colony of young bees in Jaunuary without a queen. Would some of the worker bees then commence to laying unfertilized eggs which would then develop into drones? After the cells were capped, the colony could then be combined with a queenright colony and thus you would have a supply of drones in very early spring. However, would they be large enough since they would have been raised in worker cells? Mike Stoops Located between Montgomery and Mobile, Alabama, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:54:53 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Source of drones in early spring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/20/00 8:29:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, mws@FRONTIERNET.NET writes: > Possible method for raising drones, open for speculation and rebuttal. > > Set up a colony of young bees in Jaunuary without a queen. Would some of > the worker bees then commence to laying unfertilized eggs which would then > develop into drones? After the cells were capped, the colony could then be > combined with a queenright colony and thus you would have a supply of drones > in very early spring. However, would they be large enough since they would > have been raised in worker cells? I suspect many if not all would be discarded and the colony would die without intervention. I've seen strong colonies keep drones here in our mild coastal SC winters all thru the winter, and then throw them out in a March storm. It's discouraging, but it's also amazing how fast they can have them when the time is right for them. The main thing is, I think to keep feed available to them. We have a stimulative maple flow in late January or early February, which will produce a lot of worker brood and sometimes drones in strong colonies. Then that ends and the nectar situation is pretty barren until around March 20, when there usually is a good flow. Pollen is plentiful unless there is a really hard freeze. So colonies that looked good at mid-February at the end of maple flow may be starving or close to it at mid-March. They won't raise drones under these conditions. Some beekeepers concentrate a lot of feeding in the fall (which is more important in the North) but here in SC, feeding during the spring dearth is much more important. I have raised queens in early March and succeeded one year and failed the next. It all depends on the timing of the storms. I have pretty much given up trying to push the season, just keep them well fed and let them choose the timing. When they are ready to raise queens, you'll get the best possible queens. Another thing is to make sure the good colonies have mostly worker brood comb in the center of the brood nest, and drone comb on the walls. They will then raise workers first, and as the brood expands, will quickly produce drones when the time is right. Colonies with a lot of drone comb in the center will often just not build up. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com (Now searchable) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:49:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Medicinal honey- update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am beginning to feel a little like I was LBJ showing off his gallbaldder operation scar, but I want to report a small trial I conducted in the honey treatment of my hand operation wounds. Two weeks after starting my honey treatment and almost three weeks after the operation, I stopped treatment of one of the cuts that had healed over but was still a fairly deep opening. I continued honey treatment on all the other wounds. This was not a control but it at least allowed some comparison. One honey treated wound closed completely during this time and is completely healed. The untreated wound stopped its progress. The wound on the other finger opposite it, which had much more damage, has healed over completely with no deep openings- even though it was deeper than the untreated finger, was composed of two intersecting cuts and had a stitch which allowed underlying flesh to protrude. The protrusion had skin heal around it was gradually shoved back to where it belongs. I was told by the Doctor that it would take about four to six week to heal that part of the wound. It took less than three. Since the controls progress was now behind the honey treated wound, I restrated treating it with honey. It is now closed. I have no idea of the why or how honey has closed the wound, but it did. The deepest cut, across my palm, is half closed. My guess is it will be completely closed in a week or so. In all, I have become a believer in the effacy of honey in wound treatment. Because of the way it heals, with no scabbing, I have much more flexibility in my hand than others would with scabs. Most of the concern of the Occupational Thearapist and Doctor was to keep my hand straight. I can understand that since, under normal healing with scabbing, you would want the wound to stay closed under flexure and its normal position to be fully open. With the honey and its method of healing, from the bottom up, I have tremendous ability for flexing my hand to the point I can almost make a fist again, with no discomfort. For those wheo asked. I used my own wildflower honey. I tried three different varieties and all seemed equally effective. All stung slightly on open wounds but there is no discomfort after the wounds have healed over. For Nick W. Before I had the operation I asked the Doctor if I would be able to play the piano after the operation. He said he fell for that once, during his internship. However, after viewing the NZ sites, I understand that had I used manakua honey I would be able to play the Didgeridoo. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:53:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Midwest late summer brood rearing Hello All, Yesterday at our beekeepers meeting many beekeepers reported a stop in their bees brood rearing when our temperatures were around 100 degrees F. for over a week last fall. They reported not having enough emerging brood to winter well. I personally didn't have this problem as my bees were working a above average Goldenrod flow but thought the subject might be interesting to put out on Bee-L. There are of course many other possibilites such as disease and mites as the reason but at least 7 or 8 longtime beekeepers reported the situation in their hives. I travel the longest distance to the meetings and my bees are in a different floral area than most our members bees. In the spring of the year i have seen a stop in brood rearing for no apparent reason. Usually occurs in early May. We have discussed the problem at our bee meetings but have never quite been able to figure out why for sure. There allways seems to be plenty of pollen and most of the hives are being fed. We have seen the stop in egg laying last from 5 days to 10 days. We have came with plenty of answers to argue about. Any comments? Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri PS Preparing to swarm always comes up but crowding is not a problem and there are no swarm cells. All hives seem to follow the same pattern. Very strange i must say. We have seen the above happen when weather is normal and during cold spells. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:55:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Hamilton Subject: Re: Varroa tolerance revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A new thought. This weekend at a bee meeting someone suggested caging the queen to interrupt the brood cycle and thus lower the varroa numbers. You really don't need to eliminate varroa, you need to keep the level down. Pretty labor intensive for commercial guys but as part of an Integrated pest management plan .. maybe your fall treatment when the hive is boiling over and you could use a few less bees? Comments .. timing? Dave ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:15:24 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: TM in crisco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, George Imirie. You pointed out the very substantial prevelance of AFB in 1922 and the very small prevelance now. Is it your point that the reduction was the result of burning and not of usine TM during the intervening period? Dan Hendricks __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:59:01 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: TM in crisco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of course. TM was not "discovered" until World War II. We used to use Sulfa drugs prior to TM; but it was the inspection laws that made beekeepers conscious of AFB and made start to look for symptoms. Don't forget that inspectors had the legal right to burn a colony without even consulting with the owner. Hence, a lot of diseased colonies were removed from the scene, so there was less chance for contamination of healthy colonies by robbing of diseased colonies. Talk to the inspectors of almost any state today, and they will tell you that AFB has been steadily increasing in recent years because beekeepers have "lost sight" of AFB and place their emphasis on mites. Further, those states that have discontinued or de-emphasized inspection have all seen increased AFB disease. If I am not mistaken, you are in Washington State. If so, talk to Jim Bach and see if he agrees with me. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 01:00:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: MatHig@AOL.COM Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 17 Nov 2000 to 18 Nov 2000 (#2000-117) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/18/00 11:03:09 PM Central Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: << our state entomoligist "Mr. Ray Nabors" >> Hi Bob, Just a minor correction, but Ray is not our state entomologist (Mike Brown is). Dr Nabors is an extension agent down in the bootheel (Pemiscot or Dunklin county?). Regards, Matt Higdon Hallsville ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:07:09 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Hamilton Subject: Re: TM in crisco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi George Do you have any numbers / references on this statement? I ask certainly not to question your obvious knowledge but as research. Nebraska is now dropping its inspection program as a result of Charlie Simmonds retirement. NBK is discussing whether to provide some type of free voluntary inspection, but we have a problem with that in the large number of migratory beekeepers moving through that want nothing and we don't want to be in a regulatory position. There was much discussion about the educational benefits of inspection. Most commercial people said it was a pain, not at all needed since they had to "keep their bees clean" to make money. They indicated it was a "hobbyist" thing. Dave > Further, those states that have >discontinued or >de-emphasized inspection have all seen increased AFB disease. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:32:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: TM in crisco Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Dave, As far as a state keeping an inspection service how else can those migratory outfits legally move? We kept apiary inspection here in MN to provide the needed inspections so beekeepers can legally move their bees to other states. We also do survey inspections and educate beekeepers on disease issues but here one of the most important reasons for keeping at least some bee inspection was to service the migratory beekeepers. They ( some migratory beekeepers ) may not like to admit it but most states still require inspection before the bees are shipped in. It seems to be working reasonably well here. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:47:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Response To Gavin Ramsay from Joe Rowland (Was GMO Crops) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The following response from Joe Rowland was sent to me along with a request to post it to BEE-L. Rowland responds to Ramsay I think that Gavin Ramsay's recent comments regarding my GMO testimony invite some response. In September, New York invited me to testify at a time when I was extremely busy. I decided to do the best I could with the time and resources available. On such short notice, it is not surprising that I might not achieve 100% accuracy. Ramsay points out that the French studies I refer to do not involve GM pollen. I think he is right on this, and my statement is incorrect in that regard. My source was an article by Mark Winston (Bee Culture Sept. 2000) in which he states, "GM pollen can induce more subtle behavioral changes in adult bees, particularly in their ability to learn." Winston referred to research conducted in France and New Zealand. Perhaps it was the New Zealand research which found a harmful effect from GM pollen? I intend to continue investigating this. The French researchers are in the process of developing testing procedures that will evaluate colony effects from GM crops. I think that Tier I toxicity tests (used in the US approval process for GM crops) only look at short term toxic effects on adult bees. The French research does indicate that GM crops approved for general use by virtue of Tier I tests may not in fact be safe for honeybee colonies. (The protein which proved harmful passed a short-term toxicity test). Mr. Ramsay's conclusion that, "the right people were asking the right questions at the right time!", in my view is overly optimistic. Apparently all GM crops in the US need only pass these inadequate Tier I tests and so have not been proven safe for honeybee colonies. These questions should have been asked and answered 15 years ago, before the first GM crop was approved. Ramsay's statements on tetracycline also bear a closer look. He maintains that the USDA APHIS database contains information on all experimental and commercial releases of GM crops. I believe he is wrong on this point. The FDA and EPA also regulate GM crops. These crops are not included in some cases on the APHIS database. Also, crops approved before 1994 may not be on this listing. It is among these early GM crops where I believe tetracycline-resistant genes were used. I originally had two sources that led me to believe that tetracycline-resistant genes were present in Round-up Ready crops. One was a university level biology text book that had a diagram depicting Round-up tolerant genes combined with tetracycline-resistant genes to create a GM plant. I also contacted a biotechnology researcher who confidentially confirmed the use of tetracycline-resistant genes in the creation of Round-up Ready crops. Based on that, I proceeded to raise the issue in my testimony. Ramsay is wise to use the wiggleword "seem' when he states, "it would seem that resistance to tetracyclines has not been used in crops for small scale or commercial release. I'm still working on getting a definite yes or no on whether tetracycline-resistant genes have been used in any GM crops. I've placed inquiries with Monsanto, FDA, EPA and USDA on the subject, but have not received a conclusive response. If there are no such crops, my theoretical speculation is baseless. Ramsay's attempt to shed some light on the subject is welcome, but both his and my apparent errors serve to make an important point. That is: we should maintain a healthy skepticism regarding claims coming from all sides of this controversy. Incidentally, I don't view myself as absolutely anti-GM, although I have serious reservations concerning the adequacy of the regulatory process and favor labeling of GM products. As a layperson exploring a complex subject, I may occasionally make mistakes. I will assure you that any erroneous statements I make will be unintentional ones. Science can often answer a specific question in a fairly reliable fashion. However, scientific assurances are limited by the scope of the questions we ask. Without the right questions, we may find ourselves dealing with unintended and unwelcome consequences. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:57:26 -0500 Reply-To: arl@q7.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Subject: Re: TM in crisco In-Reply-To: <200011211313.IAA02034@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There was much discussion about the educational benefits of > inspection. > Most commercial people said it was a pain, not at all needed > since they had > to "keep their bees clean" to make money. They indicated it was a > "hobbyist" thing. > Most of your commercial beekeepers that are still able to make a living at beekeeping are top notch when it comes to controlling AFB and other pests. Without following best practices they would quickly go under. The problem is that when whe have a "most" we have a "the rest". It is hard to stay up with all of the new problems that are out there. Here in Florida we have some of the best inspectors around. We are having to deal with resistant mites, AFB, beetles and who knows what the next thing will be. I have a lot of sympathy for the migratory beekeepers. But migratory beekeepers are going to spread problems, it is just the nature of being mobile. Good inspections will help all beekeepers, incuding the migratory group. One key element is that they need to be sensitive to the needs and limitations of the migratory folks. After all if a truck load of bees is just passing through there is little need to get them to stop and search the hives. - "One of the best examples of pure democracy in action is the lynch mob" - AA4YU ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:19:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: TM in crisco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Hamilton wrote: > Most commercial people said it was a pain, not at all needed since they had > to "keep their bees clean" to make money. They indicated it was a > "hobbyist" thing. > > Dave George I wrote > > Further, those states that have > >discontinued or > >de-emphasized inspection have all seen increased AFB disease. Many years ago I had the privilege of accompanying our state bee inspector in his inspection of several migratory operations. He found several hives infected with AFB, along with many more with EFB and chalk brood. The AFB hives had to be destroyed. And these were good operations. The percentage of AFB found in Maine runs between 2 and 5 percent each year with it usually being closer to the high end. That is with inspection. So I would say it could follow that without inspection, the rates would go up. They would not go down. And I can understand some commercial pollinators reluctance to have their hives inspected. It does cost in permit fees and they do have to burn if AFB is found. But a suprising number welcome inspection. It allows movement between states and shows the grower that they are getting good bees. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME