From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 07:55:40 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05199 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:55:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00282 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:58:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141258.HAA00282@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:58:30 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0012C" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 129962 Lines: 2776 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 01:55:56 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HStarJE@AOL.COM Subject: five gallon buckets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just have one simple question for someone. How do you stack (nest) 5 gallon buckets together without them permanently wedging inside each other?. Maybe there is an easy way to do this. I hope so... Thanks, Cesar Flores Colorado USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 08:04:20 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Hale Organization: The "B"ee Spot Subject: Bee Scorpions MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi All Last year I posted an artical about the bee scorpion. I have had hive sites which have had a very bad infestation of veroa. If you lifted the lid to the hive you could see veroa on the backs of a lot of the bees, then it would sudenly vanish. This has happened to quiet a lot of my hives, on investigation the only thing I could put it down to was the bee scorpion. Barry Donavan of New Zealand and I discussed the matter but due to a shortage of funding have been unable to do any scientific work on the bee scorpion. Just out of intrest sake I find that my SHB population is kept to a minimum if the bee scorpion is present. Eddy Lear and I have dicused the matter of the bee scorpion and agree that it plays some part in the control of veroa. To date I have not treated a single hive of mine with any form of chemical, not a single lose due to veroa Barry Donavan can add quiet a lot of info for us and give us some more sugestions. Wishing you all a merry Christmas and a happy New Year. Mark Hale South Africa. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:20:28 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: EPA Proposes new draft Pesticide Registration In-Reply-To: <200012150119.UAA11272@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > We, here in France are most probably at a crucial phase in the > "Imidaclopride" story, if one can bring it down to that level. Some time back, I wrote to abeilles@fundp.ac.be, a French language list from Belgium that I read and participate in from time to time, asking this question: -----begin question ------ Au Canada nous nous interrogeons sur l'imidacloprid. Nous savons que beaucoup d'apiculteurs en Europe sont convaincus qu'il est dangereux pour des abeilles et la cause de la diminution et de la perte plusieurs de ruches en France. Nous sommes au cours des discussions avec les compagnies qui louent nos abeilles pour la pollinisation. Ils se demandent si le Goucho peut être utilisé sans risque, puisqu'ils ont lu que le gouvernement allemand a décidé il est sûr. Ce que nous devons savoir est ceci: parmi des apiculteurs y a il n'importe quel doute que le imidacloprid est la cause du problème? Est-il *possible* que le imidacloprid ne soit pas la cause? Bayer a envoyé un représentant au Canada à nous parler lors de la session canadienne du Conseil de miel à Saskatoon et pour nous dire que son produit était irréprochable, mais quand il a terminé la plupart des personnes n'ont pas été convaincus. Svp faites-moi savoir ce que vous pensez. Y a-t-il un doute? -------end question -------- In a nutshell, I said (in my poor French) that we in Canada are wondering what the fuss is about -- and whether anybody in France has any doubts that imidacloprid has been the cause of the sudden loss of bees. The answers were all that imidaclopride (the French version of the word) is insidiously harmful to bees and causing huge losses. Moreover, apparently, the research proving it safe and allowing for registration has turned out -- in retrospect -- to be tainted, since the control areas had also been treated several years back and the researchers had neglected to mention that -- even though the product can be very persistent. I have also seen some some leaked recent research that shows imidacloprid(e) affects bees at unimaginably low levels -- levels that have been previously undetectable. I have to to tell you right here that this is NOT what I want and need to hear right now, and although I have continued to correspond with the French beekeepers and have even set up a web site at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Imidacloprid/index.html to monitor this problem, I would really, really rather stick my head in the sand. This weekend, rather than visit my mother and my sister on the weekend before Christmas as I like to do, I find myself attending a meeting of beekeepers on the subject of pesticides. Ugggh. I really would like to think that all the French beekeepers are mistaken, but I fear they are not. Please visit the (unfinished) site and have a look. The material there so far is very neutral and none of the bad reports are presented. In time, as I get the nerve -- and permission -- I intend to add some of the correspondance I have received on the topic. The job is made more difficult by the fact that the reports are in several languages that I do not speak. If the French beekeepers are right, we are in for big trouble, since this molecule is being rapidly approved in North America to replace others that are being phased out due to worries about cancer and other problems. allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 06:16:53 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Morris Subject: Re: five gallon buckets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/15/00 5:35:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, HStarJE@AOL.COM writes: << I just have one simple question for someone. How do you stack (nest) 5 gallon buckets together without them permanently wedging inside each other?. Maybe there is an easy way to do this. I hope so... >> On the farm of my grandparents, 5 gallon buckets were very common. Grandad would take some folded newspaper and fold over the lip, then put in the next bucket. This kept them from forming a seal that only Arnold Schwartzenegger could hope to pull apart. Hope this is useful. Tim Morris ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:58:59 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Irish Beekeeping Discussion List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Would I be trespassing too much on your good will if I solicited new members for the Irish Beekeeping discussion list? I show below the instructions for the List and am grateful for any assistance in this. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland HOW DO I SUBSCRIBE TO THE IRISH BEEKEEPING-LIST? Send an email to: IrishBeekeeping-subscribe@listbot.com Do not put anything in the Subject or in the body of the message. You will obtain an acknowledgment and you will be asked to reply to it. You are now a subscriber. HOW DO I UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE IRISH BEEKEEPING-LIST? You can manage all of your list subscriptions from a single web site. If you ever want to unsubscribe from this or any other ListBot mailing list, simply go to their web interface at: http://www.listbot.com/cgi-bin/subscriber and use the login info that was sent to you when you subscribed to the list. HOW DO I POST A MESSAGE TO THE IRISH BEEKEEPING-LIST? This is a discussion list. In order to send mail to the list, you need to address your message to: IrishBeekeeping@listbot.com. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 07:26:36 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George Richtmeyer Subject: Re: five gallon buckets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit use paper betwen then on the side of the buckets ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 07:51:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: EPA Proposes new draft Pesticide Registration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Letters to the editor of you local newspaper in the vein of "we are about to lose even our beekeepers bees" could be very effective. Couple the pesticide problem with mites, which have received very good PR on the plight of beekeepers and where have all the bees gone. Keep it moderate in that we are not looking to ban all pesticides but keep our bees protected from misuse of the pesticide. Have the State Beekeeping organization issue a press release with their concerns. If you have suffered losses to pesticide in the past, call you local paper or TV station and give them a reason to interview you. In each case, the picture presented should be David vrs Goliath. Public opinion will get behind the underdog, if they are not strident and not out to ban pesticides but use them wisely. You do not want to offend the gardener with their Raid. Might not some on this list make up a straw man press release and after the moderators sift through them for the best they could be posted on the list? And a sample letter to the editor? They should be short and attention getting. Then it is only a matter of cutting, pasting, and mailing and no one will have a good excuse for not getting involved. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 08:23:58 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Coldrion Subject: Re: five gallon buckets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You can get buckets apart by blowing compressed air around the top edge where the two buckets meet. Try it. You'll be surprised how well it works. No need for paper etc. The cardboard and paper ideas work well too. I've also see eight inch squares of cardboard just put in the bottom of the bucket. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Richtmeyer" To: Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 4:26 AM Subject: Re: five gallon buckets > use paper betwen then on the side of the buckets ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:28:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: 5-gallon buckets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The newspaper trick, reported by others is the oldest and works fine. However, newsprint will be left on the buckets and must be washed off. For that reason, plain wrapping paper or butcher paper works better. When buckets are stuck together, using a hose to run a small amount of water into the seal will immediately loosen the buckets. Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:39:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: "Bee scorpions" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On the 13th, Eddy Lear wrote about bee scorpions, as follows (in small part): "Last year around September, a beekeeper who is a major migratory [beekeeper] within my district warned me that he had varroa in his hives. I then unfortunately found varroa in one of my hives in December. On inspection I visited my hives again in February and was astounded not to find varroa. On closer examination of the brood area I found an abnormal number of Bee scorpions (Ellingsenuis fulleri)." On the 14th Eddy responded to a query by Donald Aiken about the possible use of bee scorpions as a biocontrol against Varroa and cited a passage from "Honey Bee Pests, Predators, & Diseases" [1997] ed. by Roger Morse & Kim Flottum [on pg 236], a passage not repeated here. The 1990 edition of a book by that same name (for those of you who own a copy), edited by Morse and Nowogrodzki, has a chapter by Dewey Caron and Kenneth Ross that includes further information (pages 186-187) about several species of these "bee scorpions" (actually pseudoscorpions, not true scorpions). They mentioned the following species: Chelifer cancroides (Europe) Cheridium museorum and C. cimicoides (Europe) Engsenius sculpturatus, E. fulleri, E. ugandanus, and E. somalicus (Africa) as well as E. indicus (India) Caron and Ross wrote: "...peudoscorpions that kill wax moth larvae benefit honey bee colonies. Furthermore, their consumption of mites in beehives has been reported in southern and eastern Africa ... and in Germany ...In India, colonies of bees that had pseudoscorpions were remarkably free of wax moths and mites (Singh and Venkataraman 1948)." On the 15th Mark Hale wrote (in part): "Last year I posted an article about the bee scorpion. I have had hive sites which have had a very bad infestation of varroa. If you lifted the lid to the hive you could see varroa on the backs of a lot of the bees, then [the infestation] would sudenly vanish." and " Just out of interest sake I find that my SHB population is kept to a minimum if the bee scorpion is present. Eddy Lear and I have dicused the matter of the bee scorpion and agree that it plays some part in the control of varroa. To date I have not treated a single hive of mine with any form of chemical, not a single loss due to varroa." In a book, THE BIOLOGY OF PSEUDOSCORPIONS, by Pete Weygoldt (1969), one finds (p. 117): "Chelifer cancroides is often found in beehives....They are probably carried into the nests phoretically. Normally the pseudoscorpions do not harm their hosts; they like the warmth of the nests and feed on other animals living there --- wax moths or beetle larvae, for example. There are, however, some species [of pseudoscorpions] that use their hosts as prey. The tropical genus Ellingsenius (Cheliferidae) is well know to bee researchers (Orosi-Pal 1938); these species live in bee nests throughout their lives. During swarming they attach themselves to bees and are thus transported to the new nests." A 1968 book by J.L. Cloudsley-Thompson, SPIDERS, SCORPIONS, CENTIPEDES, & MITES, has several relevant passages, including the following: p. 128: "It has been pointed out that a few species [of pseudoscorpions] inhabit a comparatively dry environment, but the marjority are extremely susceptible to dessication and must be provided with moisture if kept in captivity. Some species are light-shy, but in Chelifer cancroides no negative phototaxis has been observed..." p. 132: "...false-scorpions [Ellingsenius hendrickxi] often attach themselves to the legs of the bees and sometimes in numbers combine to attack both workers and queens, which are killed and eaten like ordinary prey. The [pseudoscorpions] forces its chelicerae into the articulations of the legs of the bee at intersegmental membranes and feeds upon it..." p. 140: "Levi (1948) found that in Wisconsin the life cycle of Chelifer cancroides also occupies a year, but Vachon (1938) found that in France the same species took two years to reach maturity." ******** In other words, one species or another of "bee scorpion" lives in several countries, even in the United States. Perhaps one or more of those species could serve as an acceptable biocontrol. However, one must be VERY careful as to which species is adopted, since many species may cause more harm than good. Chelifer cancroides, a cosmopolitan species, seems to cause the least harm (with the recently noted --- by Eddy Lear and Mark Hale --- possible exception of Ellingsenuis fulleri). In the U.S., one would need no import permits for C. cancroides, since apparently that species already lives in Wisconsin (and most likely elsewhere). As a start, the following publication might prove useful: Levi, H.W. (1948) Notes on the life history of the Pseudoscorpion Chelifer cancroides (Linn.) (Chelonethida.) TRANS. AMER. MICR. SOC., 67:290-298. ********** Remember, though, that any pesticide that harms varroa and tracheal mites would also likely eliminate pseudoscorpions, since all are arachnids. Adrian [With all best wishes for the Holiday Season and sweet dreams --- not about sugar plum fairies --- but about the possibility of bee scorpions someday solving some of your problems.] Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 [http://www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm] ******************************************************************** * * "To have one's opinions prefabricated can be a source of great * comfort and relief. It relieves one of the responsibility of * choice." * Murray Levin, 1971 * ******************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 18:24:48 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Honey May Prevent Tumors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Honey May Prevent Recurring Tumors By LINDSEY TANNER .c The Associated Press CHICAGO (AP) - A provocative Turkish study suggests that using honey as an ointment during a certain type of colon-cancer surgery can help prevent tumors from recurring. While the research was done in mice and no one expects hospitals to start stocking operating rooms with honey jars, honey has been used as a folk remedy for healing since biblical times. And a Mayo Clinic cancer expert said the results, though preliminary, are too fascinating to be dismissed. The research was aimed at improving the safety of laparoscopic surgery, an increasingly popular technique that involves tiny keyhole incisions and skinny instruments. Enthusiasm for the technique has been tempered by some reports that laparoscopy for colon cancer can itself cause tumors to develop in the abdominal wall, along the path the surgical instruments took. The Turkish researchers suggest honey might work as a barrier to tumor cells when it is spread in the incisions. The findings, based on a study of 60 mice, were published in December's issue of the Archives of Surgery. Dr. Tonia Young-Fadok, a Mayo Clinic surgeon participating in a U.S. study on whether laparoscopic surgery for colon cancer can cause new tumors, said substances in honey might actually help dissolve tumor cells. ``It's not clear what the power of honey is, but there's certainly something here that's of interest,'' Young-Fadok said. Laparoscopies are being used increasingly to treat a variety of conditions that formerly required major operations. Skinny instruments and a slender viewing tube called a laparoscope are inserted through tiny incisions. Carbon dioxide gas is injected into the body cavity to cause the abdomen to swell, creating a work space for surgeons. Colon tumors are essentially the only type of cancer for which doctors use laparoscopy. Some theorize that the gas might cause cancer cells to shift location and form tumors. Others suggest that inexperienced surgeons might inadvertently cause malignant cells to implant as they extract the tumor. Young-Fadok said some research has found that tumors occur in less than 1 percent of cases and that when the laparoscopy is done by experienced surgeons, the risk is essentially zero. In the Turkish study, led by Dr. Ismail Hamzaoglu of Istanbul University, researchers injected the mice with air, made neck incisions and injected the animals with tumor cells. The researchers spread honey inside the incisions in one group of mice before and after the injections. All 30 mice without honey developed tumors, compared with only eight of the 30 honey-treated mice. In a commentary accompanying the study, Chicago plastic surgeon Dr. Thomas Mustoe noted that other research has suggested honey has anti-bacterial properties and may be an effective treatment for burns. The study ``highlights another potential use,'' Mustoe said. On the Net: http://jama.ama-assn.org http://www.clinicaltrials.gov AP-NY-12-14-00 1600EST ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:27:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: potato rotation crops Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here on Prince Edward Island a huge expansion of the blueberry acreage and attendant pollination requirements means that it will not be too many years before we exceed the carrying capacity of beehives on the island unless there are changes to the present cropping practices. A large portion of the land is in potatoes, and so it is of great importance to beekeepers here what crops get rotated with those potatoes. Presently, the most common rotation is potatoes, grain, and hay. The hay is almost all double cut red clover. There is lots of discussion in the list archives about red clover. I clearly remember one post by Andy Nachbaur stating the his bees had made many crops of honey on red clover. My own experience has been quite variable. It is rare that I have seen the bees working the first flowering. I have sometimes made crops on the second flowering. This year the bees seemed to ignore it altogether. I would put to the list the following questions: 1. Are there varieties of red clover known to be better honey yielders? For example, I have heard that there might be one called "crimson" that has a smaller flower. 2. What might be some other possibilities for potato rotation? The advantages of red clover to the farmers here is that the seed is cheap, the clover is tall, palatable to cattle in silage, and vigorous. 3. Does anyone have information on rotating sweet clover with potatoes? There is one grower here who tried it one year, and was sufficiently impressed that he is going to try another field. Thanks, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:16:25 -0500 Reply-To: Betsy Bashaw Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Betsy Bashaw Organization: Time Warner Subject: propolis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am looking for recipes which utilize propolis in a finish for stringed = instruments. More specifically I'd like to find some historically = accurate use of propolis in the finishing of early instruments...viola = de gambas particularly. As I understand it, the propolis is = incorporated in some solvent which will evaporate leaving the wood = impregnated with propolis. A search of the archives only came up with = some experimentation using propolis on Harp string bridges. If anyone = knows of a source...perhaps an antique book, please contact me directly = at bbashaw1@nycap.rr.com. Thanks, Betsy Bashaw ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 10:41:27 -0600 Reply-To: busybeeacres@discoverynet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob and Elizabeth Harrison Subject: Re: potato rotation crops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Stan & All, Stan Sandler wrote: The hay is almost all double cut red clover. There is lots of discussion in the list archives about red clover. I clearly remember one post by Andy Nachbaur stating the his bees had made many crops of honey on red clover. Mine have in certain years usually after the first cutting and the blossoms are stunted. Clover needs a wet April and hot late spring and summer to make a big honey crop off all clovers. Red Clover is the hardiest in hot weather. Red Clover makes the most hay. Red clover has a high tnn so is good to feed in cold weather. I roll red clover in big round bales for cold weather feeding instead of the brome I am currently feeding. Red clover has quite a bit of stems like Alfalfa so there is waste. Although a Beekeeper/farmer I prefer Red Clover for hay over the other clovers. My own experience has been quite variable. It is rare that I have seen the bees working the first flowering. I have sometimes made crops on the second flowering. This year the bees seemed to ignore it altogether. White Dutch Clover normally makes a crop in our area every other year but 2000 and 1999 were both poor years for White Dutch. The bloom was ok but they bees seemed uninterested in the blooms. We had a very try early spring. I would put to the list the following questions: 1. Are there varieties of red clover known to be better honey yielders? To my knowledge there isn't but there is with soybeans. Temperature,humidity and soil conditions need to be right for bees to work both clovers and Soybeans. I guess you could say for bees to work most plants. 2. What might be some other possibilities for potato rotation? Hairy Vetch BUT not crown vetch although beekeepers have reported crops from crown in certain areas of the country. We have been trying to get the state road department to seed Hairy instead of crown but they say the seed is cheaper for Crown. The advantages of red clover to the farmers here is that the seed is cheap, the clover is tall, palatable to cattle in silage, and vigorous. And makes better tonage of hay. The only way you might get a farmer to convert to a white clover is buy the seed yourself or pay the difference in price. 20 acres of White Dutch will make about half the hay of 20 acres of red clover in our area. The White Dutch crop could be improved with Lime but then you have got another cost. The Red clover seed is cheap in our area because it is drilled in with winter wheat and then combined for seed. You get a double crop. Pioneer and Monsanto have never found a way to keep farmers from saving red clover seed . Yet! 3. Does anyone have information on rotating sweet clover with potatoes? There is one grower here who tried it one year, and was sufficiently impressed that he is going to try another field. Yellow and white sweet clover in hay fields usually is a waste of time for farmers (in our area). Not near a vigorous as red clover. I have seeded quite a bit of Yellow & White sweet clover along the roadways. It seems to do better there until the road department cuts it down. They have cost us big crops. Twenty years ago they only cut the roadside once maybe twice a year. Now with all the *city folks* moving to the country they keep the road departments phones ringing till my buddies have to get out and mow. They do leave my known bee locations to last. My neighbor is head of the Lafayette county road dept.. City folks (now wanabe country folks) complained this year about noxious weeds(honey plants). I had a whole bee yard die because the county sent their workers wading through my fall honey crop flowers (weeds) with backpack sprayers along the roadside near the yard. When I bought land for my bee farm all you could see was fields and open land. Now its $250,000 houses and people raising two kids,one horse and four or five BIG dogs. The wife is even making me quit leaving the keys in the trucks and equipment. Guess they will be wanting me to move farther out before long. Hard to move when you started with a cow pasture and built the place through your own sweat and hard work. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Grumpy old beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:51:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rob Green Subject: Re: potato rotation crops In-Reply-To: <200012161838.NAA28629@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed We've always lived in the burbs but had friends who were farmers, and now, I'm in a more rural area, quicly turning into subdivisions and I keep bees. Could never understand homeowners moving out into the country then complaining about the noise, smell, animals or weeds. I learned a long time ago not to show disrespect to farmers with my mouth full. It's a heartbreaker when the city sprayed the bees. Do they not know you're there? Perhaps they could tell you want day they are spraying and you could have stopped up the hive entrance for the day. At 10:41 AM 12/16/00 -0600, you wrote: >I had a whole bee yard die because the county sent their >workers wading through my fall honey crop flowers (weeds) with backpack >sprayers along the roadside near the yard. When I bought land for my >bee farm all you could see was fields and open land. Now its $250,000 >houses and people raising two kids,one horse and four or five BIG dogs. >The wife is even making me quit leaving the keys in the trucks and >equipment. Guess they will be wanting me to move farther out before >long. Hard to move when you started with a cow pasture and built the >place through your own sweat and hard work. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:21:21 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Martin Subject: new member MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello everybody, my name is Martin and I am beekeeper ( a 26 boy ) from Czech republic. I = am a small hobby-beekeeper becouse I have only 8 hives, but I am = interested about everything of bees. Excuse please for my unperfect = english. Nice = days for everybody = Martin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:22:57 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Supersedure in observation hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We keep an observation hive in our extracting shed, for our own pleasure and that of our occasional visitor. For those who are interested in observation hive construction, this was designed and built by the handyman of the house from measurements in beekeeping references and consists of three full depth frames in a vertical case, with perspex inserts rather than glass. The bee entrance is a clear plastic tube about one inch in diameter and 3 feet in length leading from the top to a hole bored in the outer wall so that bees emerge well above head height, and also just above a trellis hedge of jasmine. Initially we did suspend a string down the clear tube as it appeared the bees had difficulty gripping the tube for walking up and down. However after one week they appeared to have the knack or had roughened the inner surface sufficiently and scampered in and out quite freely. The hive has ventilation holes down the side, covered with fine wire netting. It is normally stored flat against the wall with a chain to add stability so we observe one side only. However it is designed so that by simply detaching the entrance pipe and inserting a wad of foam rubber, I can transport it for display at honey promotions or for educational purposes. This is not a viable long term hive as the bees have difficulty in maintaining a stable temperature and population drops drastically during the winters, which are very mild in this part of the world (Kangaroo Island, South Australia). It is not unusual for us to replace with a fresh swarm every 24 months or so. Hive strength is currently only one frame brood. We have added heavily candied frames from time to time as food stores. Nonetheless we are able to observe bee behaviour over long periods of time, including hive cleaning where 2 or more bees co-operate to remove a dead body from the hive floor, negotiating it past 3 frames and all the other bees to carry it up all the way through the tube to the exit. Some removals were tackled by single bees who would persevere through failure after failure to complete the task. To enable easy queen spotting, we had marked the queen with a blue dot. On a Thursday 4 weeks ago, a casual glance at the hive picked out the queen at a glance. However the blue dot was missing. Then another queen was spotted on the same frame, both queens pushing their way through clumps of bees rather than with the usual pattern of bees facing in towards the queen as she moved through the space so created. Within the next 10 minutes, 4 queens were observed on the side facing us, one appearing very freshly hatched (downy and short bodied). The first 2 queens had shoved their way through the worker bees to each other and immediately curled to insert stings. One appeared to be in a slightly more advantageous position to sting her rival. The worker bees appeared to be more of an obstruction than interested witnesses. The contest was over quickly and the rivals continued to parade the combs, seemingly unable to tell whether there were other queens on the same frame or not. I did not hear any queen piping. However the following day, one queen was observed parading while workers removed the corpse of another. Again, the bees displayed no attention. I was concerned as to whether the queen would successfully emerge from the top of the hive for her mating flights. Worker bees appeared initially to be very unsteady finding their way out. During the next few days the bees notably clumped on one half of the frame, ignoring the other side. It was impossible to see whether eggs were present due to the number of bees. The following Thursday, the queen was noted laying a small patch of comb. The bees were now in the normal attendance pattern, facing in towards her, grooming and feeding. My question as to whether mating had been successfully consummated remained and I examined the brood frame to determine whether drone or worker bees were being laid. It took several days before I was reasonably certain that supersedure had been successfully accomplished. The bees were now clumping on the side of the frame previously ignored. Last Thursday, the brood was sealed and the secondary layings are covering the centre of the outside facing frame. All brood is worker cell size. I consider that for a hive of only one frame of bees to raise 4 queens for supersedure to be a very creditable effort. It may well be that the queen will be relatively short lived as she has not received the nourishment she would have in a larger hive. However, it may be that she will re-invigorate the hive and the numbers will build to a viable population before winter (still another 6 months away). I wish her luck and a long life. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island J.H. & E. McAdam Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Guy Miller Subject: New Member Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" How nice to have a new member from the Czech Republic. Martin, please don't apologize for your English. It appears to be so very much better than my Czech, I don't think anyone will notice. We are pleased to have you "on-board," and look forward to hearing from you again soon. Bees, and bee problems, alas, are world-wide, and the more we hear, the better off we all will be. Guy F. Miller "Start every day with a smile, and get it over with." Charlottesville VA W.C. Fields ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 09:29:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Mad Bee Disease. Coming Soon to Your Neighbourhood? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some of you may recall having heard of Mad Bee Disease in France and the demonstrations at the Eiffel Tower. French beekeepers attribute the loss of -- according to one report -- as many as 450,000 hives over the last decade to imidacloprid, a pesticide that is now becoming widely used worldwide. Imidacloprid is used in many commercial formulations under many different brand names and is a systemic. This means that it enters the plant and moves up through the plant to affect insects that are in contact with its juices. Although there is a degradation of the product in the plants and soil over time, this period varies with local conditions. In response to demonstrations by French beekeepers and new information, it is my understanding that French authorities have put a temporary hold on the use of this chemical pending further study and discussion. However, recently imidacloprid has been given a clean bill of health by a prominent Canadian entomologist, apparently working with Bayer, the manufacturer, and without much input -- if any -- from Canadian beekeepers. Imidacloprid products have thus received approvals for use in Canada in this coming season. My understanding is that it is being approved also in the USA. There has been little discussion in North America about this chemical and its potential effects on beekeeping and pollination of crops. This is partly because most of the discussion is in French and the material has not been well collected and presented for browsing coherently. I have therefore completed the first phase of a site to provide imidacloprid information in English at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Imidacloprid/index.html The site is still beta, and feedback is requested. Particularly I would appreciate comments about the organisation of the site and suggestions for additional material. allen allend@internode.net http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:34:50 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: Mad Bee Disease. Coming Soon to Your Neighbourhood? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Allen and Everyone, Imidacloprid as a seed treatment in the formulation "Gaucho" was recently approved for use here in the USA on corn ( maize). It may have been used on a few acres here this spring but is being advertized heavily on the radio here in MN this fall and will be much more widely planted next spring from all indications. How can a farmer not like the prospect of season long insect control with no applications needed " all you have to do is ask for it. " ( the treated seed that is from the ad ). I am interested in this due to some losses that at least one beekeeper here in MN has experienced this summer which were different than what he has had in the past but many other factors are also possible causes at this time. I have learned from the French research that the material is present in the pollen of corn ( maize ) in high enough concentrations to cause problems. At present beekeepers here in the USA should keep a watch on their colonies this coming summer for signs of problems developing during or right after corn pollen shed in their area. At present EPA only requires acute toxicity testing which is done in the laboratory in cages. This of course does not access the actual problems in the field very well and appears to have lead to the situation in France where thier pesticide regulatory body has or had a similar requirement. FWIW blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:02:51 -0500 Reply-To: Peter John Keating Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter John Keating Subject: Re: Mad Bee Disease. Coming Soon to Your Neighbourhood? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, l usually agree with Allen, but this time l have to point out that imidacloprid IS ALREADY available in North America, including Canada. The sites given below will enlighten Allen (for his site) and others that the Mad Bee Disease may already be upon us,disguised as virus effects of varroa? Bayer is killing colonies in France with Gaucho and saving colonies in the U.S. with Check-Mite. A revue of the below sites will reveal that it is a very toxic product which we can safely used as a flea collar for domestic animals!!! Peter http://www.msstate.edu/Entomology/v8n2/art06.html http://151.99.190.57/fito/principi/imida.stm http://www.ns.ec.gc.ca/reports/admire.html http://ace.orst.edu/info/nptn/factsheets/imidacloprid.htm http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/haloxyfop-methylparathion/imid http://www.nofleas.com/vets/Chemical.html http://www.biologists.com/JEB/200/21/jeb1249.html However, recently imidacloprid has been given a clean bill of health by a prominent Canadian entomologist, apparently working with Bayer, the manufacturer, and without much input -- if any -- from Canadian beekeepers. Imidacloprid products have thus received approvals for use in Canada in this coming season. My understanding is that it is being approved also in the USA. There has been little discussion in North America about this chemical and its potential effects on beekeeping and pollination of crops. This is partly because most of the discussion is in French and the material has not been well collected and presented for browsing coherently. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:04:56 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Mad Bee Disease. Coming Soon to Your Neighbourhood? Comments: To: Peter John Keating In-Reply-To: <200012181605.LAA07448@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Imidacloprid/ > l usually agree with Allen, but this time l have to point out that > imidacloprid IS ALREADY available in North America, including Canada. The > sites given below will enlighten Allen (for his site) and others that the > Mad Bee Disease may already be upon us, disguised as virus effects of varroa? Well, I don't think that we are in disagreement at all. We know it is here. There are 21 posts on BEE-L referring to imidacloprid and many mention its use in North America. (see http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l and search for 'imidacloprid'). The point is that Imadacloprid has been in *limited* use, AFAIK, mostly in non-bee forage applications. Granted soil residues and crop rotation to major nectar producing crops on treated soil have been a threat during this period. In fact, a visiting French beekeeper this summer reported to me having observed symptoms of imidacloprid-influenced behaviour in bees he saw in southern Alberta while travelling. BUT... What is happening now is that imidacloprid is now approved for =direct use= with *canola* which is a major crop and a major -- and unavoidable -- nectar source for Canadian beekeepers. Moreover, with the withdrawal of Lindane due to its non-use in the USA, imidacloprid-bearing products may be the ONLY seed treatment used on canola in Canada before long. See 'media articles' on the 'reading list page at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Imidacloprid/ . Or go direct to http://www.producer.com/articles/19991021/production/19991021prod01.html What I am warning about is that imidacloprid will be =everywhere= in vast quantities very soon. Perhaps it will appear at detectable levels even in honey, since the product is systemic. This would be a disaster. I guess what really frightens me is that Cynthia Scott-Dupree, who is the head of The Canadian Association of Apiculturalists (CAPA) has been working closely with BAYER and just okayed the product -- according to the news article below. I would have expected her to be our *defender* if there is any doubt or risk and to wait for Canadian trials in Canadian conditions. "...But Scott-Dupree said research showed negligible levels of residue in France. She is waiting for results of tests done in Canada". Maybe there is no significant risk, but it seems to me that there is *clearly* doubt and risk. It also seems obvious to me that these doubts and risks cannot have not been sufficiently addressed to permit rolling out the product into geographical areas where it has not been tested. ----- begin excerpt from Western Producer article ------ Tests OK insecticide; beekeepers skeptical Canadian beekeepers shouldn't worry about the insecticide Gaucho, says a professor of entomology at the University of Guelph in Ontario. Cynthia Scott-Dupree performed tests on large-scale commercial plantings of canola seed treated with Gaucho. "We've looked at the impact of these treatments on honeybees in terms of their foraging activity, mortality of adult bees, honey production and behavior," Scott-Dupree said. "There was no impact on bee behavior by any products we tested." ----- end of clip -------- Much more follows. See original article at http://www.producer.com/articles/20001109/news/20001109news15.html ) All this is really bad news if there is any truth to what beekeepers have reported from real-world experience and we've just been hit hard from behind. I feel like an ant watching a steam roller coming. Thanks for the links. I'll be using them. allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:46:30 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Jean Menier Subject: Imidachloprid ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all, Who know if it is it true that imidachloprid is _not_ allowed to be used in Germany, for many years, under any form ? Thanks for a general reply on the list. Jean J. Menier - From what I know, the demonstration this afternoon in Paris against "Gaucho" has been quite a success. About 3 000 beekeepers, from almost all regions of France were present. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:36:19 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Mad Bee Disease. Coming Soon to Your Neighbourhood? Comments: To: Peter John Keating In-Reply-To: <200012181605.LAA07448@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just to make it easy to read the previous posts to BEE-L, here is a direct link to the BEE-L imidacloprid discussions to date: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S2=bee-l&q=imidacloprid&s=&f=&a=&b= Hope it does not wrap. If it does, try the link on http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Imidacloprid/letters1.html This latter link also has the French discussions and a translator. allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:37:28 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Mann Subject: Researchers are using honeybees to spread a natural fungicide Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bees vs. strawberry mold Scientists at Ohio State and Cornell universities say they've found a natural way to prevent strawberry plants from rotting. Researchers are using honeybees to spread a natural fungicide, and they say their method works better than commercial sprays. The Great Lakes Radio Consortium's Natalie Walston reports. (3 min.) - Robt Mann consultant ecologist P O Box 28878 Remuera, Auckland 1005, New Zealand (9) 524 2949 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 01:33:29 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-2?B?RXNhZCDIYW7oYXI=?= Subject: Re: new member MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Martin & everybody! My english is not my mother`s language, but it is not problem. If you write on your own (Slowak) I `ll understand. I am new member too. Beginer too.I own 17 good wintered colonies of Carniolan. My special interest is: be races, rearing queens, rearing good drones, inovations in beekeeping suplies... etc. I am ready to discuss with anybody about any case in beekeping. For this spring I need beautifull & gentle queens. Who is new like me, let`s correspond! Wellcome to everybody! My location is Sarajevo, Bosnia & Herzegowina Kind regards! Esad ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:05:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Mad Bee Disease. Coming Soon to Your Neighbourhood? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for the links Peter. >From this one: > http://www.ns.ec.gc.ca/reports/admire.html I clipped this: Study sites included five active potato-farming operations in NB IN 1995-96 and two experimental test plot sites on PEI in 1995-96. Concentrations of imidacloprid in aquatic sediments adjacent to treated NB fields were monitored for five months encompassing pre-treatment (late May), growing season, post season, and 1 year post treatment. In the PEI tests, dissolved and particulate concentrations in surface runoff and adjacent streams were monitored at regular intervals for seven months for pre-treatment (early July) to late winter (late February 1996). Off-field movement was detected in most cases and throughout the measurement period (0.1µg/L-4.4 µg/L in water and 0.006 to 0.052 µg/g in stream sediments). Foliar applications resulted in losses of imidacloprid in the growing season (demonstrated by peak presence in sediments and runoff range), followed by smaller peaks later in the season, up to seven months post application. In furrow applications resulted in negligible losses in the early season, but periodic releases with time, peaking in the post-season and winter period. Elevated levels of imidacloprid in runoff and sediments did not typically occur after runoff events, although highest concentrations followed runoff events such as periods of precipitation and snow melt. End of clip. This is a rather disturbing report, since they only followed it for seven menths, and it was detectable all that period. I had one yard this year at a dairy farm where he had traded fields with a potato grower last year. Because of that the field did not rotate through grain, but went immediately back to clover and alfalfa. The field was sprayed with admire. This was by far the poorest yard of 46. I lost almost a third of the hives. I also noticed something rather unusual: the bees were extremely aggressive (rather astounding given that the yard was all packages from New Zealand, which are normally almost impossible to disturb). I am wondering if it is possible that the heavy usage of imidacloprid on PEI now has anything to do with our unusual incidence of EFB this season. Perhaps it was one of the stress factors. I would much appreciate it if someone would post the symptoms of imidacloprid poisoning in bees. Thanks, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:52:32 +0100 Reply-To: gilles.ratia@apiservices.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gilles RATIA Subject: More recent info from France about Imidacloprid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A Stricken Sector of Production in Apiculture: Beekeeping, hit in full flight. Reasons for the national demonstration, 23rd - 24th - 25th October 2000 in front of Bayer's factory, Cormery, France. The Co-ordination of French Beekeepers Translated by Peter Dillon pdillon@club-internet.fr 1. APICULTURE: A CATASTROPHIC SITUATION, TOWARDS THE END. The expansion of sunflower culture in France since 1984/1985 allowed a large number of beekeeping exploitations to be maintained, even develop in unfavorable economic climate. Effectively, the price paid to the French honey producer for either blossom honey or the basic honeys of sunflower, rape and alfalfa was associated with the level of those paid for imported honeys: the latter often being produced in regions of the world where operational costs are much lower and nectar sources more abundant. Nevertheless, the important and stable yield of the sunflower not only allowed production at a competitive selling price compared with imported honey, but equally it generated a commercially intense export activity. Northern countries of the European Union had a passion for these French sunflower honeys; quality wise they were recognized as excellent honeys. These interesting perspectives in terms of production and commercialization gave rise to new beekeeping installations (especially amongst young people), whilst established beekeepers increased their stocks and adapted their production equipment, allowing for best possible use of the new potential. As a result, and even not taking into consideration heavy investments into buildings and vehicles, the whole beekeeping network profited: honey dealers, equipment sales, development of new materials, development of new honey products. The increase of bee stocks in the areas of intensive crop farming, where sunflower is grown, guarantees an even better supply of pollinating insects on rape, alfalfa etc. Furthermore neither seed producers, arboriculturists, soft fruit farmers complained about the surplus colonies of bees, nor the average person. Indeed, more bees favor bio-diversity, already badly attacked by human activity in these vast croplands. Since 1994 the beekeepers of central France, (in 1995 or 1996 in other regions) noticed that at the beginning of the sunflower honey flow brutal population losses occurred in the honeybee colonies. A weakened colony results in a reduced honey harvest. Year on year, this phenomenon of "colony melt down" has amplified, verified by evolving production levels. Effectively, figures communicated by two principal apicultural co-operatives - Cooperative France Miel (Mouchard - 39) / Cooperative Apicole of Charentes and Poitou (Surgères - 17) -, translated a fall in their collect of sunflower honey between 1995 and 1999 of the order of 50%. Also, a study of accounts carried out by the Deux-Sevres Chamber of Agriculture on four professional exploitations illustrated the degradation in production figures for sunflower honey (see document in annex). Until the appearance of this phenomenon of "melting away" of bee colonies on the sunflower nectar flow, the exploitations working in areas of arable agriculture realized 70 to 90% of their annual global production from the sunflowers! Even where the market for sunflower honey has had for four years a certain increase in value, it has never been enough to cover for the losses in production. Worse still, in conjunction with the depopulation during July/ beginning of August, beekeepers deplore winter losses, at levels never encountered before. (traditionally at 5 to 10%, they have risen to levels of 20 - 40%!) In these conditions of production of lower turnover and increased charges, there are many exploitations in areas of arable agriculture where profitability has been compromised, to the point where they can no longer feed their families, even to the point of bankruptcy and closure. Therefore, it is the whole of the apicultural network that is suffering. 2. BEES AND PESTICIDES / DANGEROUS LIASONS. During this century, Man has turned more and more towards pesticides. The need to protect or privilege crops, associated with the increase of land put into agriculture use means that agriculture is by far the greatest user of pesticides (insecticides, herbicides, fungicides, acaricides etc.). Since the 1940s, thick carpets of dead bees in front of hives or worse, colonies completely annihilated in the space of a few days, constantly reminds beekeepers that in general - and certainly for the older molecules - insecticides are not selective. The useful character of the bee does not mean that is protected against lethal intoxication - useful insects are still insects. From a general point of view, products, known as herbicides, fungicides, acaricides, aphicides, do have an insecticidal action: intoxication level is a question of dose and contamination pathway. Neurotoxic molecules have been developed over the last three decades. Occasionally they are applied in less than good agricultural practice, used for the wrong purpose, or without respect to the recognized dose Sometimes, even when used in good agricultural conditions, their "homologation" was not sufficiently studied in a pertinent manner. In both cases, their use results in a hemorrhage of bees, or weakening of exposed bee colonies, even if one doesn't observe the dead bees in front of the hives. One can refer to sub-lethal effects of a neurotoxic pesticide, without observable death within the few hours after contamination but expressed with "sly" and more complex symptoms relating to behavior problems". These symptoms of comportemental sub-lethal intoxication are multiple. At extremely low dose levels, certain neuro-toxic pesticides affect reproductive comportment, feeding behavior or the ability to lay eggs properly. Influence on locomotion as seen in the de-coupling of flight muscles occurs - resulting in difficulties in controlled directional flight, whilst at intra-colony level functioning of essential communication between individuals is disturbed. During the last four to six years at the beginning of the sunflower honey flow, with an absence of mass mortality before hives, it has been easy to observe that harvesting bees have an abnormal comportment. In the sunflower fields themselves the work undertaken by the bees actually on the flowers is ineffective or non-existent, with too long periods of rest or sequences of persistent body cleaning/ scratching. Bees that are to be found away from the normally attractive areas of the plant and those to be found on the ground are hit by a sort of paralysis. Their predators have a field day! In front of the hive entrances there are very frequent failures in landing or take off. This is associated with excessive filtering and aggressiveness by guard bees. It is reasonable to associate these symptoms with the massive "melting away" of the populations, which consequently profoundly deregulate and damage the global activity of the colony. Those bees that remain try to reorganize, notably by a reconstitution of the colony; directing energy towards increased reproduction. The symptomatic study of harvesting bees at the beginning of the sunflower honey flow allows for correlation between the massive depopulation of the colony and the sub-lethal intoxication by minute doses of a neuro toxin. Since 1997, more than half of the sunflower seed has been treated with "GAUCHO", (BAYER), formulated with the active neurotoxic material Imidacloprid - and as its introduction onto sunflower coincided with the debut of apicultural problems, the treatment with "GAUCHO" had to be considered as the probable cause of beehive depopulation. 3. THE GAUCHO DOSSIER. >From its introduction, "Imidacloprid" the active substance was announced as the first systemic soil insecticide applied as a seed treatment ("GAUCHO"). Neuro toxic, it works by contact as well as ingestion, on the nervous system by maintaining neural activity, inducing a tetanic condition resulting in the death of the insect. It presents a wide spectrum of effectiveness: soil pests as well as piercing/sucking insects are affected. Even just coating a seed, due to its persistence it will be present throughout the whole of the plants growing cycle, and due to its remarkable systemic properties, it will be transported by the sap circulation to all parts of the plant. It is very toxic for the bee, but the formulation "GAUCHO" was not supposed to contaminate pollen and nectar, which are susceptibly harvested by bees during the flowering of the crop. "GAUCHO" is authorized as a seed treatment for Beet, Maize, all straw cereals and sunflowers. Imidacloprid is found in other formulations in France: "CONFIDOR" (spray treatments for fruit trees), "POLYAXE" (Horticulture), "ADVANTAGE" (treatment against fleas on dogs and cats). The principal stages and diverse studies characterizing the research on the possible effects on bees following applications of "GAUCHO" to sunflower seed are as follows: Autumn 1994, the beekeepers of the central areas of France, faced with problems following the recent sunflower nectar flow questioned BAYER on the subject of "GAUCHO", introduced the same year on sunflowers. Field and tunnel trials are put in place by BAYER: notably in 1995 and in 1997 in the area of central France and in 1996 in Germany. BAYER concluded the strict innocuousness for bees of GAUCHO on sunflowers. >From 1995 and as "GAUCHO"/sunflower took hold in other areas of France, their beekeepers asked about the causes following the phenomenon of depopulation on sunflower honey flows. The symptomatic features led to thoughts of a sub-lethal intoxication via a neuro toxin. According to beekeepers, BAYER was unable to furnish guarantees allowing for the exoneration of its product. (meeting of ACTA, 24th Oct. 1997) The " Commission des Toxiques" asked its experts Mr's Belzunces and Tasei to make an appraisal using the known and available facts (studies from BAYER, beekeeper witnesses, and articles). Following the presentation of the report (11th Dec. 1997), the Commission noticed the urgent need to study the different hypothesis's. An extensive program of studies, taking in a number of research groups, and at a cost of 6.000 kF. was realized during the year of 1998. The resulting rapport concluded with "an apparent contradiction": the laboratory trials after analytical results on residues indicated a danger for bees from Imidacloprid at concentrations levels of a few parts per billion (ppb.) possibly encountered by bees in natural conditions. This uncovered risk was not corroborated by observations in the field (this sentence really should not have been written - as contested by beekeepers, there was nothing done!) The, 16th Dec. 1998, the Commission des Toxiques didn't want to get involved and proposed to renew trials in 1999. Instead the Minister of Agriculture, Mr. Glavany, on the 22nd Jan. 1999 stated that the use of "GAUCHO" on sunflowers was to be suspended for the whole of the French Territory, whilst studies to be carried out in years 1999 and 2000 produced results. This was the first time that the "Principal of Precaution" had been applied to an environmental problem. Notably BAYER before the State Council attacked this ministerial decision. The three Apicultural Unions intervened in the procedure, on the side of the Minister of Agriculture: on the 29th Dec. 1999, the inquest on the cancellation of the decision was rejected! On the 13th of August 1999, the Dutch Government decided to withdraw all authorizations for the use of Imidacloprid in open-air conditions from 1st Jan. 2000. The reasons invoked were: the too long persistence in soils of the molecule with regard to European Standards, a intolerable toxicity vis a vis birds (A beet treated seed ingested by a bird the size of a sparrow was lethal), toxicity vis a vis bees did not conform to Uniform Principles. BAYER blocked the process notably by submerging the Dutch administration with "new scientific data". A decision is to be taken 1st Nov. 2000. It seems that France is the only country in the world to authorize the use of GAUCHO on sunflowers: it was also troubling to see that French beekeepers were originally alone in announcing grave problems on "colony melt down" in areas of arable agriculture. Recently, beekeepers in Spain, Italy, some states in the U.S.A. are encountering problems that cannot be explained other than by sub-lethal intoxication caused by Imidacloprid, very notably from maize treated with "GAUCHO": bees harvest the pollen from maize plants. 4. THE STATE OF KNOWLEDGE RELATING TO GAUCHO - BEES AT THE DATE OF 15th Oct 2000. It is true that certain study reports ordered in January 1999, by the Minister J. Glavany have still not seen the light of day (Rapport N° 4 from CNRS / Orleans - Dr Bonmatin: residues in pollen, nectars and honeys), and that others are reserved for a selected public (the rapport's of BAYER and of CETIOM). It is still possible to propose a synthesis. The resulting analyses on residues undertaken by CNRS/Orleans confirm the strong hypotheses of 1998 or reveal the following: Sunflowers and maize treated with "GAUCHO" contain Imidacloprid in all parts of the plant. It is to be noted that there is even an increase in quantity at the moment of flowering (Increased metabolic action in the plant). Several metabolites are present, with toxic properties comparable to the original molecule. Imidacloprid resides in the soil at significant levels, two years at least after a crop treated with "GAUCHO" The transfer of this residual Imidacloprid in the soil towards a non-treated plant is particularly effective in the case of sunflowers and maize, hence, foraged by bees. The bioavailability of the Imidacloprid is notably illustrated by its presence in pollen and nectar, at a level of some ppb. (Confirmation by CNRS to be completed). The organization CETIOM by press release announced that nectar from sunflowers treated with "GAUCHO" may contain 0.4 to 5 ppb. of Imidacloprid. Note that fruit trees having been treated with CONFIDOR at authorized levels frequently produced fruits containing 100ppb of Imidacloprid after respecting the delay period before harvesting (the maximum residue limit for fruits is fixed at 300ppb.) The biological effects on bees are reported as follows: Dr. Marc Colin (INRA) studied the effects on the frequentation, characterized by several criteria, by bees at sources of food (contaminated and non-contaminated), under semi-controlled conditions. For Imidacloprid, the effects are always present at 6 ppb. At 3 ppb., the effects are present under certain conditions. The toxicity of the Olefin metabolite is clear at 1.5ppb.: they are still present at 0.75ppb., but less regular. Dr. M.H. Pham- Delègue (INRA) reported in October 2000 that the prolonged ingestion of syrups contaminated with Imidacloprid induces a significant reduction in olfactory learning performances at levels equal or above 12 ppb. Dr. Belzunces (INRA) notably reported that the prolonged ingestion by the bee at 4.5pg (picogram)/ 24 hr., of either Imidacloprid or its metabolites caused the appearance of significant mortalities three or four days after the start of treatment (for comparison, and with regard to the weight of the individual, this is equivalent to a daily diet for a human of only four millionths of a gram!). He insists on toxicity of the Imidacloprid metabolites, bio-available or resulting from the rapid metabolism of Imidacloprid within the bee. 5. QUESTIONS ARISING FROM THIS ACCOUNT. Wouldn't it be a grave error of judgment not to correlate the sub-lethal toxic effects of Imidacloprid, which start at a level of some ppb. in laboratory conditions with those of hive depopulation in the field, knowing that it is biologically available at levels of several ppb.? One may read today: " that "GAUCHO" risks to come into play at a level of a few ppb.". Remarking that in the risk evaluation of a pesticide in relation to human health, there is a security factor resulting from strict tests of 100 put in place for tolerated exposure levels; (undertaken upon animals such as rats, mice, dogs, cats and rabbits). It seems normal that Man should benefits from these safeguards, since apparently in the domain of toxic risk assessment science is not exact. Believing Albert Einstein, Man survives thanks to the bee, "No bees, no pollination, no plants, no animals, no Man". Would it not be better to apply in all cases the results of toxicological studies undertaken in laboratories to bees, with a coefficient of security greater than 1, to fix tolerable limits in bio-availability? Does "GAUCHO", also used as a preventative treatment against aphid attack not pose a problem as aphids cause harm only one year in six. When the former situation arises only one year in six. Is this compatible with the concept of "reasoned agriculture"? The bee is considered as a true indicator of the environment's state of the health. As it is not a question anymore that the available Imidacloprid in the natural environment is a danger for bees does it not suggest that other useful insects are being aggressed? If with the domesticated bee, other auxiliary insects are being attacked, does it not inevitably lead to a lack in pollination plus an absence of predator insects preying on pests? The too long persistence in soils of Imidacloprid, added to its frequent and multiple use result in a fear that there will be an accumulation of it and its metabolites in soil? The extreme toxicity of Imidacloprid for earthworms has been shown, notably by A.C.T.A.: according to BAYER, the worm population recovers after six to nine months. In these conditions, do we not need to worry for the survival of earthworms, indispensable agents for the working of soils and development of the microbial mass? The suspension of "GAUCHO" on sunflowers during the last two years has allowed a more recent molecule to establish onto the market: "FIPRONIL" (produced by Rhone-Poulenc, now Aventis). For sunflowers it is found under the form of: Seed treatment ("Régent"); micro-granules (+ aldicarb as "Trident"); Ground spray ("Schuss"). Beekeepers have observed that where sunflowers are treated with "REGENT", bees become ill once the sunflowers start to flower and produce nectar (Filmed sequences are available). The report from studies undertaken by Dr.M.E. Colin (INRA-Avignon), show that the bees have a foraging behavior less efficient and less conform when compared too the one seen on organically grown sunflowers. "FIPRONIL" concerning its chronic toxicity for bees, is as least as toxic as "GAUCHO". "FIPRONIL" is present in the plant and is very persistent in soil. 6. AUTHORIZATION AND REGULATIONS. In France, the regulations covering the use of insecticides date from 1943. They have since undergone several modifications. Imidacloprid obtained its first provisional authorization for sale in 1991 - for the treatment of Beet seed ("GAUCHO / Beet) after passing an examination by the "Commission des Toxiques", charged to evaluate the product and an examination by the "Comité d'Homologation", charged to evaluate a product's effectiveness. The authorization dossier for "GAUCHO"(1992), under the chapter " toxicity towards non-target organisms / bees", mentions nothing more than the L(ethal) D(ose)50 allowing for the classification of Imidacloprid as very toxic for bees. As a general rule, the authorization is given by the Minister of Agriculture for a ten-year period. Logically, "GAUCHO" should therefore be re-examined according to national regulations during 2001 if BAYER wishes to continue with its sale: in this case, BAYER should already have signaled this fact to the administration. Imidacloprid, being on the market before 25th July 1993, had no need to be evaluated by the European Directive 91/414 and is not therefore really listed on the European positive list, a required obligation in the granting of permission to have formulation accepted in one of the E.U. countries. (Derogation was given to substances produced before the date of 25th July 1993). It appears therefore that Imidacloprid is due for examination under this directive in the year 2003. For many reasons other than considerations concerning bees, it is improbable that Imidacloprid will pass the examination of the directive 91/414.. The risk assessment for the bees only considers acute toxicity: for this reason, it is not surprising that the sub-lethal effects were never taken into account before the aforementioned studies were evoked. 7. RELYING ON THE KNOWLEDGE AND ARGUEMENTS AFOREMENTIONED, BEEKEEPERS ESTEEM THAT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEMAND: The final withdrawal of all products formulated from Imidacloprid The suspension of all products formulated from "FIPRONIL" from AVENTIS, applying the "Principle of Precaution". The revision of the procedures of authorization, taking into account the security and the protection of the bee. Special care should be taken for the development and conception of toxicological tests. They should reveal all effects, prejudicial to the global activity of the colony and the state of its brood, as well as to the survival of the individual bee. 15th October 2000 La Coordination des Apiculteurs de France (SNA, SPMF, UNAF, FDSEA 79, FDSEA 85) The Co-ordination of French Beekeepers. (SNA, SPMF, UNAF, FDSEA 79, FDSEA 85) Translated by Peter Dillon pdillon@club-internet.fr ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ENQUIRY ON SUNFLOWER HONEY - RESUME Following an important fall in production in Sunflower honey, an enquiry into the quantities harvested was undertaken by the Chamber of Agriculture in the county of Deux-Sevres following a request from a beekeepers union Four beekeepers were chosen. They owned approximately 10% of the hives found in the county (2500 against 20000 present). The figures relate to the years 1992 - 1999. The apiaries had become non-productive, either in 1995/96, year of introduction of "GAUCHO", or between 1996/99. The areas in the plains appeared to be most affected. The nectar flows produced by other crops pose no questions. Results (Sunflower harvest): For the period 1992/93, three exploitations were taken into account. For 1994/95 four exploitations are taken into account. Year Number of hives Total production (kg) Hive production (kg) x x x x Have a look at the scoreboard http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/gaucho/gaucho_france.htm For the bee farmers, an average loss of 215 538 kilograms of honey was noted, which represents a loss in turnover of 2 550 456 FF if a sale price of 12 FF is applied. --------------------------- COOPERATIVE APICOLE OF CHARENTES AND POITOU TABLE SHOWING: SUNFLOWER HONEY YEARLY HARVEST TOTALS SINCE 1995 YEAR VOLUME (kg.) 1995 1 000 893 1996 1 109 950 1997 638 727 1998 637 446 1999 500 000 --------------------------- COOPERATIVE FRANCE MIEL *For 1999, Figures based on expected supplies from information supplied to Co operative by beekeepers. TREND OF SUNFLOWER HARVESTS 1988 - 1999 The Co-operative France-MIEL, created in 1958, has at its disposal significant data on the trends of different varieties of honey. These figures are informative, since the beekeepers are committed to supply the totality of their annual harvests to the Co operative, which has in turn a laboratory specializing in the floral determination of the supplied honeys. Due to this fact, the amount harvested determined as sunflower honey corresponds to precise technical criteria. The Co-operative collects on average 2 000 tons of French honey per year, a third of which is sunflower Have a look at the scoreboard http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/gaucho/gaucho_france.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Regards, Gilles RATIA Beekeeping Consultant Webmaster of the "Virtual Beekeeping Gallery" http://www.beekeeping.com President of the Apimondia Standing Commission on Beekeeping Technology and Equipment APISERVICES Beekeeping Development "Le Terrier" F-24420 Coulaures - FRANCE Phone: +33 (0)5 53 05 91 13 Mobile: +33 (0)6 07 68 49 39 Fax: +33 (0)5 53 05 44 57 Do not dial (0) out of France Email: gilles.ratia@apiservices.com Web: http://www.apiservices.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:15:39 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Chris Hiemstra Subject: Re: Pierco plastic frames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone: My bees do not seem to easily draw out the plastic uncoated pierco frames. I like the plastic frames because they are durable but enjoy frames with wax foundation because the bees draw them out quicker. I wish I could have the best of both worlds. Could I encourage the bees to draw out the cells quicker by dipping the frames completely in beeswax and leaving a thick layer on them. I do not wish to buy the pre coated plastic frames because of the chance that the wax on the frame might have chemicals in it. We have been purchasing uncoated frames for the past 3 years, so we have consistant experience with bridge comb. I have heard reports that the thin layer of wax on the pre-coated pierco frames does not make enough difference and justify the cost. Perhaps a thick layer would do the trick? Does any one have experience in this area? Chris Hiemstra Clovermead Apiaries Aylmer, Ontario, Canada E-mail Chiemer@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:40:16 -0400 Reply-To: "andre.simoneau@agr.gouv.qc.ca" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andre Simoneau Organization: MAPAQ Subject: Re Symptoms of intoxication in bees Stan wrote: " I would much appreciate it if someone would post the symptoms of imidacloprid poisoning in bees." Allow me to give you general symptoms of intoxication in bees. Two types: 1. Acute intox. Agressiveness, trembling, convulsion/paralysi, death within 1 to 2 days. 2. Subacute intox. Do not cause death but disturb greatly the animal.On the worker, we can observe lost of memory, disturbances in flight and forage behavior and of the "recruiting activities"(error in transmitting the emplacement of the source of food for other bees) Symptoms are trembling, rotation on place, curving of the abdomen and an non-stop rubbing of legs together. Finally bees do not come back at the hive resulting in depopulation of adult bees and a desequilibrium in the ratio brood/adults. Cares to the brood are neglected and it cools off and the colony dies after a few MONTHS after the beginning of intoxication. A hard case to diagnose since there are no more dead bees in the hive. Ref. La Sante de l'abeille, France Andre Simoneau, d.v.m. Quebec Ministry of Agriculture ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:17:01 -0500 Reply-To: Honeybees@inorbit.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Pierco plastic frames In-Reply-To: <200012191845.NAA12243@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Chris, I paint My Pierco frames with melted beeswax using a foam paintbrush. You do not need a thick coating of wax just brush across the cell area quickly. I usually apply more to the top area than the bottom. I have good luck with Pierco but last summers nectar flows were terrible and the bees drew them out poorly. In September though, I had better luck with them finishing them. Hope this helps, Garry Libby Attleboro, Massachusetts, USA 41.56 N 71.17 W ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:34:05 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Demonstration in Paris MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bonjour from France! Having spent the day traveling to and from Paris (800 km) with the demo. in between, my head was more than swimming at 2 o'clock this morning. So what happened! Beekeepers from all over France arrived at the correct time and place, It is thought there were about 1700 -1800 people. This time without dead hives or vehicles - a little strange, a slightly naked feeling and it took a time to rise to the occasion. Arriving at the street that led to the Min of Ag. buildings - the way was blocked, the first time that things were being taken as a threatening - It was blocked by the famous French Riot Police, and there was no way we were going to get through in a peaceful manner - and we base our actions on peaceful demonstration. After half an hour, representatives returning from the Min of Agric. buildings it was a parade through the avenues and streets, beating barrels banner waving etc. The police had sealed every side street, so we were effectively directed and so things moved happily enough except the demo. objective was not being achieved!! Up into a narrow street went the procession - and again blocked, this time there was no backing off and after another 30/45 minutes of standoff we were able to convince the CRS that no violence was intended. The way was open to the actual Ministry of Agriculture Building. There, with three rows of police and their support not too far away, the spleen was vented. Authoritative indifference reigned. A giant smoker effectively "kippered" the police - a pity the ventilation intake to the building wasn't evident Plastic pots of honey broke against 2nd floor windows, traffic blocked for about an hour. To be honest, not a pleasant sight for somebody who prefers to pass his time in the wilds of his apiaries. Again the delegation were received inside the building. What was achieved? Promises, Promises and more Promises that the case has been understood and we will be able to talk in the near future. This is not the time or place to develop the science or politics. Relating to the demonstration against Gaucho (Imidacloprid) The following information is now available: last abstract of the "Coordination des apiculteurs de France" and latest photos. of the demonstration in Paris the 18th December 2000. Have a look at: http://www.beekeeping.com/index_us.htm then click on: "New pages" then click on "19/12/00 - Manifestation nationale française du 18 décembre 2000, à Paris, contre le Gaucho et autres pesticides." Conclusion: Things have taken a step backwards. There is still a tremendous amount of work to be done - I am afraid to say, even though the scientific results are proving the case for the total ban. Political considerations are starting to raise its ugly head and more than clouding the issue. Peter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:27:45 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Morris Subject: Two questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ladies and Gentleman, I have two questions that I would present to the list. Question 1 I have presented before, but I never really got the answer I was looking for. Question 2 may be silly, but call it curiosity. Question 1: Since AFB does a number so to speak on equipment, and the approved methods of cleaning up wooden ware is drastic, and or costly; I was wondering if anyone has seen any research in the area of sealing the spores in using some of the newer space age acrylics, or other sealants. Brushing them on is out, but a spray?? I received the post concerning bleach, and suspect it works fine, buts its really not approved here in the US. Question 2: While a "normal" hive-I am assuming healthy with decent winter stores , can stand the winters of most of the US--Alaska may be a different matter, I was wondering if anyone has tried/read about etc. the possibility of providing some sort of 'heating system" for the hive. This may cause other problems for the bees including intruders, but I was curious. Thank You for your patience. TIM MORRIS ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:59:26 -0600 Reply-To: busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob and Elizabeth Harrison Subject: Re: Two questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Tim & All, Tim Morris wrote: Question 1: Since AFB does a number so to speak on equipment, and the approved methods of cleaning up wooden ware is drastic, and or costly; I was wondering if anyone has seen any research in the area of sealing the spores in using some of the newer space age acrylics, or other sealants. Brushing them on is out, but a spray?? Anything you do which will prevent contact between the bees and the spores will work. *Equipment* alone makes it hard for me to understand which parts you plan to spray. I received the post concerning bleach, and suspect it works fine, buts its really not approved here in the US. I imagine you are refering to my post on bleach. Bleach will kill AFB spores if in contact with for a certain amount of time but I know of no beekeepers which have tried or used the treatment including myself. If You were using the bleach water solution on say boxes or frames without wax I would say you would be using according to label. After using if you rinsed with water and let dry I see no use problem. I only know from tests researchers have done that the bleach WILL kill spores its in contact with(about 20 minute exposure). I have boiled a huge number of frames and boxes in a 55 gallon drum with lye water. Never had a problem but best to have a beekeeper help which has used lye before. I have scorched many hive parts before and have never had a AFB problem from the treated parts. I don't do the frames any longer because the frames allways came out flimsey and needed repair. Many of the frames were frames from outfits I had bought out and were incorrectly assembled and wired. It takes a lot of time to Lye/water frames and boxes but if you are starting with old known AFB equipment then maybe a good idea in the long run. Others on the list will have to help you with the number two question. Heating a hive is not something I would even consider doing. Learn the proven methods of beekeeping and then when you get experience experiment all you want. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:57:42 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Florida honey sought In-Reply-To: <200012120732.CAA20645@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 We are seeking contact with beekeepers in Florida who may have an interest in supplying honey to a buyer based in Europe. This company is a long standing client, and friend, of ours and are a major honey packer of long standing and impeccable reputation. They are currently seeking a contact with beekeepers who would be able to supply them with good quality orange blossom honey, and most likely in full container quantities. I am quite sure this is a serious opportunity for some of the medium to large beekeepers in Florida. Unfortunately for those in other states, the ultimate buyer (not the actual packer) specifically requests Florida produce only. If there are any interested parties out there please e-mail me directly and I will forward the replies on to my contacts, who will then contact you directly. -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:43:13 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: Two questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Tim and Everyone, Tim wrote in part : ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us >>> MORRISTH@aol.com 12/19/00 07:27PM >>> "Question 1: Since AFB does a number so to speak on equipment, and the approved methods of cleaning up wooden ware is drastic, and or costly; I was wondering if anyone has seen any research in the area of sealing the spores in using some of the newer space age acrylics, or other sealants. Brushing them on is out, but a spray?? I received the post concerning bleach, and suspect it works fine, buts its really not approved here in the US." What do you mean "approved"? You can legally use a bleach solution to disinfect things in the USA including hive boxes. It may damage the wood but not sure if it would and how badly. As far as sealing the spores in - that should work in practice - anything that keeps the bees from contact with the spores should work it does not need to actually kill the spores just isolate them from the bees. Now in countries where drug treatment of AFB is not legal there could be regulations regarding decontaminating woodenware but here in the USA there should not be a problem unless the inspection service in your state has ordered the items destroyed. Here in MN I would not have any problem with a beekeeper scraping and painting the insides of the hive bodies that were exposed to AFB. Don't even have a problem with using a paint brush. "Question 2: While a "normal" hive-I am assuming healthy with decent winter stores , can stand the winters of most of the US--Alaska may be a different matter, I was wondering if anyone has tried/read about etc. the possibility of providing some sort of 'heating system" for the hive. This may cause other problems for the bees including intruders, but I was curious." Some beekeepers winter colonies in buildings which allow some heating of the building or cooling if needed as well as controling humidity and even feeding in the winter if needed. These buildings need not be fancy. I know of beekeepers here in MN who winter colonies in a small shed as single brood chambers. They sometimes provide some heating but not usually much and some feed during late winter but others don't depending on colony needs and experience. Sometimes the colonies seem to need water more than actual feed so giving them light ( 50:50 ) sugar water works well. FWIW blane ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:01:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Pseudoscorpions Hello All, Many people have asked me about pseudoscorpions lately because of the Bee-L posts. I have seen the little buggers but only rarely and allways considered them in the same class as the garden spiders,etc. which hang around hives feeding on a bee every once in a while. After looking in the most obvious books and not finding very much information I started going back through my old bee magazine collection and turned up a one page article by Dewey Caron. Bee Culture-July 1992 page 389. Dewey observed the pseudoscorpions in several settings. In Central America(Belize) he saw as many as 200 in a single hive of Pablo Cals Apiaries. The article said Dewey found one article out of India which reported hives with pseudoscorpions were "remarkably free" of wax moths and mites. Hardly enough for me to raise pseudoscorpions to put in my hives but only fair to those advocating their use to say he does talk about their possible use as a mite control. I will do a few random quotes from Deweys article as old magazine issues can be hard to find and Deweys article is the best information source I found. I think all beekeepers should subscribe to Bee Culture(and also check out my article in the December 2000 issue). Pseudoscorpions by Dewey Caron quote: A pseudoscorpion looks like a scorpion but they have a oval body with no tail (drawing in the article). The mouth parts are greatly enlarged into strong pinchers(termed pedipalps). They use these pinchers,which resemble the claws of lobsters or crabs,to grab a honey bee. The bee becomes paralyzed from an injection of enzymes and is then dragged backward to a crevice where it is lodged so the *Pse* (tired of typing the word) can feed on it for the next day or so. One species of *Pse* lives in libraries and feeds on pests of library books. The *Pse* can be found in compost piles, Oak forest leaf litter and in the nests of pigeons. Dewey says there are no reports of them being in colonies in North America but they probably do exist here. Dewey seemed curious about the *Pse* so he ended the article with the following. I would be extremely interested in hearing from you if you find them or suspect you have them in your bees. Let me know if you find one of these exotic, but seldom seen creatures in your colonies. Another excellent article by Dewey Caron for Bee Culture magazine. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:45:45 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Pseudoscorpions In-Reply-To: <200012202009.PAA16082@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Bob Harrison et al: You asked if anyone in North America had seen a pseudo-scorpion in their hives. I MAY have seen one last fall. I check for mites with a sticky board (natural drop) and on one of them there was a small animal, roughly the same size as a varroa mite which looked much like a tiny scorpion. Unfortunately at the time it did not seem significant and I did not preserve it. I still do not have varroa mites, which is probably also not significant. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:40:34 -0600 Reply-To: busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob and Elizabeth Harrison Subject: Re: Pseudoscorpions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, The ones I have seen were larger than varroa ,pinchers and no tail. I am waiting to get a return email from Dewey Caron to see if he has any additional information for us. If he has additional information I will post as the subject is interesting. I don't however believe we have found a cure for our varroa woes but allways have got a open mind to new ideas. Bob darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA wrote: > > Hi Bob Harrison et al: > > You asked if anyone in North America had seen a pseudo-scorpion in > their hives. I MAY have seen one last fall. I check for mites with a > sticky board (natural drop) and on one of them there was a small > animal, roughly the same size as a varroa mite which looked much like > a tiny scorpion. Unfortunately at the time it did not seem significant > and I did not preserve it. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:40:34 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Mad Bee Disease. Coming Soon to Your Neighbourhood? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/18/00 11:00:04 AM, Blane.White@STATE.MN.US writes: << Imidacloprid as a seed treatment in the formulation "Gaucho" was recently approved for use here in the USA on corn ( maize). It may have been used on a few acres here this spring but is being advertized heavily on the radio here in MN this fall and will be much more widely planted next spring from all indications. >> "Double-truck," full-color ads for Gaucho are appearing in farming magazines in the U.S. now. Double-trucks are ads that run across two pages, the splashiest and most expensive. I know from reviewing figures provided by a pesticide watch group in California that Imidacloprid use has been on the increase for a few years, but it seems that an expensive new the marketing effort is kicking into high gear in North America. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:53:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Pseudoscorpions In-Reply-To: <200012202229.RAA20708@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:45 PM 12/20/00 -0700, you wrote: I can't say that I've seen pseudoscorpions in the hives, but they occur in many of our northern states. In fact, I hadn't seen a true scorpion until I began working in the western states to the south of us. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:28:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Pierco plastic frames So what's the problem with the precoated frames? Why would there be any more impurities in this wax than in foundation? They are far easier to use than trying to coat your own. I think that the big advantage of using Pierco frames is the ease of use. One doesn't have to do anything except put them in the supers or hive bodies. I never have had any trouble with the bees drawing out the comb unless there is no honey flow on. I always start out the new coated frames ten to a box, then the next year mix them with my other drawn comb nine to a brood chamber or eight to a super. Works like a charm! Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:24:48 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: Re: USDA Organic Standards Announced Comments: cc: kim@airoot.com Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I'm sure many of you received the mailing from Bee Culture about the Organic food standards being announced by the USDA. The way it was written inferred that this standard was across the board for all organically grown agricultural products. As far as I know though, the final standards for organic honey has yet to be set and is scheduled for this coming spring. I think the comment period is not over yet. Can this be verified by any one on the list? -Barry ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:32:33 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Re: Mad Bee Disease. Coming Soon to Your Neighbourhood? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear All, If I may be as so bold to point out that we are doing Apiculture a disservice when referring to the Imidacloprid affair as "Mad Bee Disease"etc. The problem arises from Pesticide Intoxication and not a biological vector of some sort; hence it is not a disease! The public would view our problem in a totally different light if it was explained as such - Our bees are being poisoned and are not sick. Happy Christmas and a Gaucho free New Year to all. Peter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:24:53 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ellen Anglin Subject: Imidacloprid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This Imidacloprid is scary stuff. Do any of the Bee-organizations have plans to alert the Almond and fruit growers of this potential hazard to their pollinators? It seems to me that Beekeepers need to get other farmers who depend on honeybees and other pollinators behind them- More voices to be heard. I know the Almond growers have an active oganization reperesenting their interests- What about Fruit growers? Could we enlist the aid of these groups somehow? At least we are forewarned about what to watch for. I plan on keeping my eyes open even tho my hives are in semi-suburban and suburban areas. (There are cornfields within a mile tho, and that worries me.) Ellen Anglin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:16:49 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Two questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tim, > Question 2: While a "normal" hive-I am assuming healthy with decent winter > stores , can stand the winters of most of the US--Alaska may be a different > matter, I was wondering if anyone has tried/read about etc. the possibility > of providing some sort of 'heating system" for the hive. This may cause other > problems for the bees including intruders, but I was curious. There are those here in Alaska who have tried various methods of adding heat to a hive during winter. Some seem to be of some possible benefit, but no scientific experimentation has been done up here AFIK. On the other hand in the milder parts of Alaska, the coastal areas, it is not the extremety of the temperatures which causes difficulty to bees, but rather the duration of none flight time. I insulate my hives with two inches of styrofoam board and find no clustering down to, at least, 10 degrees F. I say at least because just as folks in the lower 48 feel that the hive should not be disturbed below 70 degrees F, I feel that the limit of 10 degrees F is more practical up here. If I had to wait for a 70 degree day for a routine hive inspection I might miss some summers altogether. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:06:06 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Neon Rosell Subject: Re: Hello MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello everybody, This is my first post on this NG. I've been just a passive member of this NG for quite a time now, just reading through the digests and learning allot. I just started beekeeping (again) last Aug. and have 4 hives at the moment. I started beekeeping years ago (early 80's) but the Varoa mite wiped them all out. And since nowadays there are lots of ways to control Varoa I started again. I think my queens are all mongrels, the apiary I bought them from said they are carniolans (black), but they have mix color offspring, brown and black. I treated them with "checkmite" strips when I just bought them as a three frame nuc for 42 days as what I've read so far, if my memory serves me right, is this the right duration? I did not have the instructions nor the apiary I bought them from. BTW, I'm from the Philippines. So, there is no problems here of overwintering the hives, but you could compare it to the rainy season (July-November) since the bees could not go out and look for forage. Plus also the temperature difference, the temperature here is mainly constant throughout the year (28-33 deg C). I have these questions I have in my mind for quite sometime now and did not find the answers from the limited source I got. When you start from a three frame nuc do you place it on a full hive body with all the frames of foundation? Or do you put the three frames of brood at the middle and frames of foundation at the sides? What I did was to put one frame of foundation at a time in-between the brood frames. As soon as the frame is partially drawn and with eggs on it I add another frame. Does this way of doing it stresses the colony, because I've been noticing an increase in chalk brood mummies? I've been constantly feeding 1:1 sugar syrup while the foundations are being drawn. Do I have to wait for a full cycle of brood (21 days) before putting an additional frame of foundation? I stopped feeding when I noticed there was a slight honey flow but still continued to add frames of foundation. When I inspected the hives again one colony has destroyed the newly placed foundation. Although they partially drawn the foundation the bees just ate the wax along the wire supports of the foundation. Does this mean they lack honey stores and in need of supplemental sugar syrup feeding? Or is it something else that's bothering them? The frames were old with some of the darkened (old) wax residue on the wire supports. And the new foundation was melted (embedded) to it. Please excuse me if these query have been posted in previous posts but I don't have the liberty of an own computer and browsing on a rented one would be an additional expense, so I make time with a rented computer as short as possible, just enough to read and copy Bee-l digests. I also don't have the privilege of going through some of the beginner's and good beekeeping books as it is a rare commodity here. Can some of you point me, if you know someone here in the Philippines I could get in-touch with. Thank you, this NG has been a great help. Regards, Neon Rosell II Trying to Bee a Beekeeper __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:48:47 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Hale Organization: The "B"ee Spot Subject: Pseudoscorpions MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi All There seems to be a lot of confusion on the pseudoscorpion. I am not surprised as little or no research has been done on this small creature. There are about 6000 pseudoscorpions listed to date, only a few occure in the honey bee hive. Some pray on the bee itself, in South Africa we have two different pseudo's that are found in the hive ( I dont have the scientific names with me at the moment, but will post later). I have e-mailed Barry Donavan in New Zealand and he found some research on these small creatures. The pseudoscorpions are of the Arachnid (spider) family. Of the many species, there is a chance that we might find a solution for a chemical free hive. The problem lies in funding as chemicals aids can be sold and pay for research, but to get research monies back from a bio control is not easy. The "research " I have done to date is out of the intrest I have in bee's as they are my lively hood. If we as bee farmers share the info and knolage we have, we will all have a easer time trying to make a living. There is enough business out ther for all of us and more, we are the ones that need to stand togeather to promote our industry, but normaly there is a lot of back biting, and we forget about the real reason we are bee farming. Firstly I will aggree it is to make a desent living, but to do that we need happy clients and healthy bees. The products we supply from our bees is perfect, only our handling of it can dammage its quality. Sell a quality product or professional servise and a happy client will follow you like a bad smell. As I get more info or photo's I will post it. Here's to a chemical free hive and a happy and educated customer. Happy Christmas and happy New Year to all. Mark Hale South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:57:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: USDA Organic Standards Announced MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by mcoldiron@MAILROOM.COM to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. > ------- Original message (ID=D1029BEF) (48 lines) --------- > From: "Mark Coldrion" > To: "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee > Biology" > References: > Subject: Re: Re: USDA Organic Standards Announced > Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:13:12 -0800 > > You can find more info at the USDA site. www.ams.usda.gov/nop > > Mark (The Little/Coldiron Farm) > > If what you're doing seems too hard..., > You're probably doing it wrong. :-) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:43:52 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Pseudoscorpions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jerry Bromenshenk wrote: >I can't say that I've seen pseudoscorpions in the hives, but they occur in >many of our northern states. In fact, I hadn't seen a true scorpion until >I began working in the western states to the south of us. Those who have ready access to a university library might check the following reference: Levi, H.W. 1948. Notes on the life history of the Pseudoscorpion Chelifer cancroides (Linn.) (Chelonethida.) TRANS. AMER. MICR. SOC. 67:290-298. That study was apparently conducted in Wisconsin. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 [http://www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm] ******************************************************************** * * "To have one's opinions prefabricated can be a source of great * comfort and relief. It relieves one of the responsibility of * choice." * Murray Levin, 1971 * ******************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:03:44 -0600 Reply-To: busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob and Elizabeth Harrison Subject: Re: Hello MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All & Neon, Your post is easier for me to help with because you added so much information. Its hard to diagnosis a problem without all the facts. Your questions are general so now they are easy but has you grow in beekeeping you might need to confer with other beekeepers in your area for problems related to your area of the world. Neon Rosell wrote: >> > I think my queens are all mongrels, the apiary I > bought them from said they are carniolans (black), but > they have mix color offspring, brown and black. They sound basicly Carniolans but most importantly they are a strain which have been working well in your area of the world by the beekeeper you got those from. I believe its allways better to use bees from your area than to import a strain from another part of the world but only my opinion. I treated them with "checkmite" strips when I just > bought them as a three frame nuc for 42 days as what > I've read so far, if my memory serves me right, is > this the right duration? I did not have the > instructions nor the apiary I bought them from. Hope you only used one strip as only one was needed and you said strips. 42 days is long enough and I can post U.S. Checkmite instructions if you want me to. Right now Checkmite has got a 98% control but you should ask in your area if any beekeepers are seeing resistant to Coumaphous varroa mites. > > BTW, I'm from the Philippines. So, there is no > problems here of overwintering the hives, but you > could compare it to the rainy season (July-November) > since the bees could not go out and look for forage. > Plus also the temperature difference, the temperature > here is mainly constant throughout the year (28-33 deg > C). > > When you start from a three frame nuc do you place it on a full hive body with all the frames of foundation? Or do you put the three > frames of brood at the middle and frames of foundation > at the sides? I believe the weather conditions at the time nuc making determines its placement as all of the above will work. ALLWAYS keep a small entrance on a nuc when large colonies are in the area. What I did was to put one frame of > foundation at a time in-between the brood frames. As > soon as the frame is partially drawn and with eggs on > it I add another frame. Does this way of doing it > stresses the colony, because I've been noticing an > increase in chalk brood mummies? You really don't want to put foundation in the middle of the brood nest in a nuc if they need to cluster but in your area you would probabbly be allright. Sounds like you are enjoying and taking good care of your little nuc. I believe it would be less stress to put the foundation on the outside but doubt it caused your chalk brood. We all see a little chalk brood in early spring in various hives but usually gets better as season progresses but abnormally large amount could indicate another problem. I've been constantly > feeding 1:1 sugar syrup while the foundations are > being drawn. Do I have to wait for a full cycle of > brood (21 days) before putting an additional frame of > foundation? We normally put all the frames in single deep box and reduce the entrance when removed from the nuc box but we have put the nuc/hives on top of strong hives in cold weather and reduced their size with divider boards at times but usually we put all frames in and just reduce the entrance. I stopped feeding when I noticed there was > a slight honey flow but still continued to add frames > of foundation. When I inspected the hives again one > colony has destroyed the newly placed foundation. I don't believe this would have happened had you continued to supply syrup. Keep syrup available at all times to nucs. Because of a lack of field bees many times they can't take advantage of honey flows. Good luck with your beekeeping ! Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:09:00 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Coldrion Subject: National Organic Standards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those of you who want to read the National Organic Standard posted in today's Federal Register, but don't know where to find it, go to the following address: http://www.access.gpo.gov/su_docs/aces/aces140.html Then go to the search section midway down the page and search for 12/21/2000 with a maximum records return of 200. After the page comes up, search that page for the word organic. You should find three items. If you need more help, just email me. Mark (The Little/Coldiron Farm) If what you're doing seems too hard..., You're probably doing it wrong. :-) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:21:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Beekeeping Philosophy Hello All, I found the following bit of philosophy tucked away in Richard Taylors *Bee Talk* in the December 2000 issue of *Bee Culture*. "Not everyone can be a beekeeper. The tiny but pesky sting will always limit membership in this strange class to a proper number." I dedicate the above to those beekeepers which think I give away too many of beekeepings secrets. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 17:08:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ham Morton Subject: Moving Bees I have 30 hives loaded on trailers that are moved for pollination purposes. Currently, I use water to chase the bees in and close the hives using screens. This process can become time consuming. My questions is. 1. Do you have any suggestions on closing and moving bees using trailers. Thanks in advance for your response. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:16:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Beekeeping Philosophy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/21/00 2:47:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM writes: > "Not everyone can be a beekeeper. The tiny but pesky sting will always > limit membership in this strange class to a proper number." > > I dedicate the above to those beekeepers which think I give away too many of > beekeepings secrets. Ummmm, Bob, you haven't told them about honey being cheaper than Viagra, have you? Dave aka Pollinator, aka "The Pumpkin Patch Pimp" The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com