From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 07:55:40 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05205 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:55:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00285 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:58:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141258.HAA00285@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:58:30 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0012D" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 105066 Lines: 2173 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:09:22 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Moving Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/21/00 8:19:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, morton@INTERPATH.COM writes: > I have 30 hives loaded on trailers that are moved for pollination purposes. > Currently, I use water to chase the bees in and close the hives using > screens. This process can become time consuming. My questions is. > > 1. Do you have any suggestions on closing and moving bees using trailers. Since you don't have to load them, why close them and risk suffocation? Begin your move early before they begin to fly. They won't fly as long as you keep moving. Keep a net and some water on hand for emergencies. I move a lot of bees in hot weather, and I never lock them up. I try to load late in the day, park overnight (sprinkler if hot) and move early. In really hot weather you can often move short distances in the afternoon, but you gotta watch that heat exhaustion. Dave ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 23:31:34 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > 1. Do you have any suggestions on closing and moving bees using trailers. The easiset way is to use a smoker and the bees will move in very quickly. Many years ago I used to use the water method but it did not work as well as smoke. Some will say to move open entrance but if only moving a few hives a short distance, I still shut them up as it saves the discomfort of those stings when unloading. When using a trailer, the hives tend to bounce around more than with a regular vehicle that has springs and so the bees are not very happy when you arrive at the site to unload them. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:42:54 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Chris Hiemstra Subject: Re: Moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does any one use a school bus for moving bees or leaving them on a school bus year round? Chris Hiemstra Clovermead Apiaries Aylmer, Ontario, Canada E-mail Chiemer@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 09:39:48 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Moving Bees Comments: To: mcoldiron@mailroom.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/22/00 8:56:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, mcoldiron@mailroom.com writes: > Could you talk a little more about the heat exhaustion you talk about when > moving hives. I'll be moving hive in the summer too and have not heard > anyone talk about heat exhaustion yet. Your legs get wobbly, you get a headache, nausea; when really bad, you see things that aren't there and can black out, in which case you need help or you may not survive. Solution: plenty of water (before you are thirsty), pace yourself; take pediatric electrolyte. Some sports drinks are supposed to have electrolyte replacements, but pediatric formulations are more concentrated. Because of the heat here in South Carolina, I sometimes do get sick and for this reason do not have string or zipper veils. My wife makes my veils of black tulle, and uses a strip of elastic to keep them closed at the neck. This means they can come off quickly when needed. (Throwing up thru a veil is NOT fun!) They also cost only a couple bucks each. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:24:35 -0600 Reply-To: busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob and Elizabeth Harrison Subject: Re: Moving Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David L. Green wrote: I'll be moving hive in the summer too and have not heard anyone talk about heat exhaustion yet. A beekeeper died at a commercial operation in the south a few years back from heat exhaustion. A very real risk if you are not careful. I have got overheated myself and like Dave said didn't feel like I could drive. I was getting light headed and feeling like I was going to pass out. There was a small (muddy) pond by the bee yard. Yep! In I went (without my bee suit). Took about a half hour to get to a place I felt like driving but I was OK but very muddy. Another time I went into a air conditioned area for awhile and was ok. In 1978 I bought out Bruce Sunderland of Raytown,Missouri. I bought the outfit from his wife because Bruce had went to work his bees and didn't return home for supper. When she drove into the bee yard she saw him slumped against the front tire of his truck dead. I never met Bruce but wish I had as his operation was in excellent condition. They said Bruce had a heart attack but the temp was over 95F. the day he died. Was the same yard I went for a swim in the muddy little pond (depth 2-3 feet) and about the same time of year. The day I overheated the temperature had been over 100F. for eleven days in a row. Like weather extremes come to Missouri. News flash. We will have a white Christmas in Missouri this year. Maybe a white New Years and even a white Easter is we don't get a warm up before long. The bees have been in cluster for two months with only a couple days of about a hour of flying. Because of the heat here in South Carolina, I sometimes do get sick and for this reason do not have string or zipper veils. My wife makes my veils of > black tulle, and uses a strip of elastic to keep them closed at the neck. > This means they can come off quickly when needed. (Throwing up thru a veil is NOT fun!) They also cost only a couple bucks each. Not as inexpensive as Daves veil but the * bug baffler* available from Mid-Con Agrimarketing 1-800-547-1392 www.mid-conagri.com works better than a regular bee suit in hot weather. They are on page 6 of their 99 catalog. Prices range from $27 to $ 35 U.S.. They are comfortable,roomy one piece headnet-shirt which gives upper body and head protection. There is a covenient full length zipper in the front neck seam for easy access to your face. Elastic band at the hip and wrists. They work and maybe other Bee-L members will comment on their experiences with the *Bug Baffler*. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 09:34:33 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Neon Rosell Subject: Re: Miticide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello Bob and Elizabeth, Thank you for your advice, I have now a better understanding on some of the basics in beekeeping. About your question whether I used strip or strips, yes I only used one strip. And please could you send the U.S. Checkmite instructions I would highly appreciate it. Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Timothy C. Eisele" Subject: Re: Moving Bees In-Reply-To: <200012221733.MAA05126@listserv.albany.edu>; from busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM on Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 11:24:35AM -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 11:24:35AM -0600, Bob and Elizabeth Harrison wrote: > > Not as inexpensive as Daves veil but the * bug baffler* available from > Mid-Con Agrimarketing 1-800-547-1392 www.mid-conagri.com works better > than a regular bee suit in hot weather. They are on page 6 of their 99 > catalog. Prices range from $27 to $ 35 U.S.. They are comfortable,roomy > one piece headnet-shirt which gives upper body and head protection. > There is a covenient full length zipper in the front neck seam for easy > access to your face. Elastic band at the hip and wrists. They work and > maybe other Bee-L members will comment on their experiences with the > *Bug Baffler*. I agree that a "bug baffler" is a lot more comfortable than a beesuit, and seems to be very effective. While it doesn't get all that hot around here (northern Michigan, near Lake Superior), it gets so humid that the times I've tried to wear coveralls to work the bees, I about died. The bug baffler suit also has the tremendous advantage that it also keeps out biting insects like mosquitos and black flies. The black flies in particular I actually regard as being more of a problem than beestings. These flies are small enough to get through the mesh on a wire-screen bee veil, and their bites swell and itch almost as much as a sting. They come after me all the time, too, not just when I'm going inside a hive, and they sneer at insect repellents. Without protection, I'll pick up a dozen or more black fly bites every ten minutes or so in my little apiary, mainly on the ears (very uncomfortable) The bug baffler mesh is fine enough to stop them, though. The only drawbacks of the full shirt bug-baffler are (1) it is pretty baggy, making it likely to get snagged on stuff (although, I might have got the wrong size. I got it from a local camping supply store, and they only had one in stock); and (2) the head portion slides around on my head a lot, and the body of the shirt tends to "creep up" as the headpiece slides. This might also be a result of having the wrong size, though. Anyway, I only use the full bug baffler when I'm going to be really disturbing the bees for some reason. Most of the time I just use a fine-mesh headnet with elastic around the neck, sewn onto the brim of a cheap canvas hat. The hat keeps it from sliding around on my head, and also keeps it from resting on my ears and letting the black flies bite right through it. The total cost of this was about $10, it's convenient for yardwork, garden work, and walking around in the woods as well as for working the bees, and its a lot more portable and comfortable than a regular bee veil/helmet combination (which I own, but don't use anymore). I have yet to be stung through either of these, so I'd recommend either of them over a regular bee veil for most people. -- Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:29:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ham Morton Subject: Hive Winter Reducers I have been using the wooden reducers that are roughly 5/8 inch square and have 3-4 different sized openings. These work fine but does anyone know of a type of reducer that stays on the hive and can double to close a hive for moving. I think I read somewhere about one that was a sliding unit that stayed on the hive. In one direction it reduced ot restricted and in the other was open. Maybe I'm just dreaming. Thanks in advance!! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 03:04:38 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ellen Anglin Subject: Bus Bees Comments: cc: Chiemer@AOL.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have seen an article about people who built a portable extracting set up in an old bus. I think it was in an old Bee journal- possibly from the 70's. I don't see why a bus wouldn't work as a portable bee-house, if you can enough ventilation to keep it from turning into a "solar oven"- when I think of how hot my car gets in the summer..... Ellen Anglin --- Chris Hiemstra wrote: > Does any one use a school bus for moving bees or > leaving them on a school bus > year round? > > Chris Hiemstra > Clovermead Apiaries > Aylmer, Ontario, Canada > E-mail Chiemer@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 04:14:39 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Hive Winter Reducers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Ham. Cut two 3" x 9" pieces from 1/8" hardware cloth. Fold each lengthwise 90 degrees to form 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 x 9 angles. Fasten one to close the left hand end, say, of the entrance with push pins. Overlap the first with the second to leave the amount of opening desired, including zero, securing with more pins. The winter ventilation can be controlled as readily by the air exit area as by the air entrance area so dispense entirely with the standard entrance reducers. I drill a 3/4" hole in the top box between frames 2 and 3 just below the rabbet and close off all other ventilation holes. This controls wintera ventilation just fine and the adjustable entrance restriction serves to protect small packages, nucs and swarms from robbing and all colonies from yellow jackets. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:25:10 -0600 Reply-To: busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob and Elizabeth Harrison Subject: Re: Miticide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neon Rosell wrote: About your question whether I used strip or strips, yes I only used one strip. And please could you send the U.S. Checkmite instructions I would highly appreciate it. U.S. Checkmite instructions: Varroa mite treatment Use one strip for eacj five combs of bees in each brood chamber(langstroth deep or equivalent in other sizes). Hang the strips within two combs of the edge of the bee cluster. If two deeps are used for the brood nest ,hang CheckMite+(tm)strips in alternate corners of the clusterin the top and bottom super. Remove honey supers before application of strips AND DO NOT REPLACE UNTIL THE END OF THE CONTROL PERIOD AND STRIPS ARE REMOVED (this has been changed in the U.S. to WAIT TO WEEKS BEFORE PUTTING SUPERS BACK ON). Treat all infested colonies within the yard. The treatment is most effective when brood rearing is lowest(this is true with all varroa treatments). Effective control may be acieved by treating hives in the spring before the first honey flow and in the fall after the last honey flow. Leave strips in the hive for at least 42 days (6 weeks) but no longer than 45 days (exactly what you said in your post you did). Do not treat more than twice a year for varroa mites. There are also small hive beetle instruction but you didn't say you wanted those but can send. I got a question for everybody; Has anyone of you came across the miticide "clartan" or "clatan" or something sounding like this, because this is what another apiary (Philippines) is using for Varoa mite control. I don't know the particulars because it was just sold to me by the beekeeper I bought one of my nucs from , although I asked, he could not give me the particulars. It came in a highly absorbent piece/strip of wood, so I guess it was in liquid form and the wood was soaked in it. As of 1989 when the *Varroa Handbook* was published there were around 100 chemicals which had been field tested against varroa in the fifteen years before the book was published. None match the name you give. I will list the closest to the name you give and maybe you can find information on the web. Show these names to the beekeeper you got the chemical from and maybe he will remember the name. Its unwise(in my opinion) to apply a chemical not knowing how dangerous it may be or the precautions needed. Chlorobenzilate Chlordifon Co-Ral Chinomethionate Chlorodimeform Chloropropllate Cyhexatin Coumaphous(Coumafos) Those are the chemicals before 1989. We have been hoping to get a update on the *Varroa Handbook* by Larry Conner. I talked to Larry last week but forgot to ask about the update. > I treated three of the hives with "clartan" and so > far I haven't seen any symptoms of mite infestation. > Sorry I didn't count the mite drops. I would discontinue the *clartan* and use the Coumaphous until at least you find what the chemical is and the precautions and danger of contaminating honey. Is there a tracheal mite problem in your country? Maybe thats what "clarton" is for. Are there any kind of restrictions on use of chemicals in beehives in the Philippines? Happy Holidays to Neon and All on Bee-L! Bob __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:02:56 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: moving bees quote: Some will say to move open entrance but if only moving a few hives a short distance, I still shut them up as it saves the discomfort of those stings when unloading. reply: I moved bees for many years in California and we never screened them in. Sometimes the bees would pour out all over the outsides of the hives and we were stung brutally. Now I used screens and believe me, it is much nicer. In cool weather you can staple a screen over the entrance, and tape any other leaks. In hot weather it's better to nail a framed screen on the top of the hive. (You can also water them through the top screen if it's really hot). With the bees screened in and the supers nailed together, moving bees is not any harder than moving furniture. If they are all over the outside, and you get stuck or have a mechanical breakdown, who will be willing to help you? Some areas also have laws against going on the highway with bees coming off the truck. Peter Borst Ithaca NY USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 16:38:08 -0500 Reply-To: beeman@kingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kent stienburg Subject: Merry Christmas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Everyone, I hope that everyone has a safe and Merry Christmas. I asked Santa for the honeybee communication handbook ( so I can tell them what they are suppose to be doing) , magic mite away powder, self levitating honey supers and some self extracting frames, Oh yea, and a "No Swarming contract!" :-) Take care everyone. Kent Stienburg Kingston, Ontario Canada ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 22:37:00 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Re: Miticide Comments: To: busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear All, The product you are referring to is: "KLARTAN" It is composed of a chemical called "AMITRAZE" I definitely would not use "COUMAPHOUS" in my hives! Peter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 23:12:43 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: massimiliano Subject: R: Re: Miticide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The chemical of Klartan is FLUVALINATE Best Regards, Massimiliano. -----Messaggio Originale----- Da: peter dillon A: Data invio: sabato 23 dicembre 2000 22.37 Oggetto: Re: Miticide > Dear All, > The product you are referring to is: > "KLARTAN" > It is composed of a chemical called "AMITRAZE" > > I definitely would not use "COUMAPHOUS" in my hives! > > Peter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 19:13:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pascal Fournier Subject: Re: Hive Winter Reducers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use two piece of wood, 5/8 inch square, one 2 inch long the other, the rest of the bottom board width. I make a hole at one extremity of each and screw this piece on the bottom board, near the side of the hives, like two doors. I can them open or closed them as I need. the bees are not disturbed by this arrangement. One thing, do not push the piece of wood inside the hive or the bees will glue it with propolis. in Spring, I cut the propolis with a sharp cutter, and it can work for a long time. I screw the piece because nails are not strong enough. I used that thing for two years without problems. Sooner or Later, I will test some stronger wood, to make them more resistant, (something like oaks or wild cherry). my english is not perfect so, this explication may be a little bit confuse. I can send a jpeg with the plan if you need many thanks to all the group and merry christmas Pascal ----- Original Message ----- From: Ham Morton To: Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 8:29 PM Subject: Hive Winter Reducers > I have been using the wooden reducers that are roughly 5/8 inch square and > have 3-4 different sized openings. These work fine but does anyone know of > a type of reducer that stays on the hive and can double to close a hive for > moving. > > I think I read somewhere about one that was a sliding unit that stayed on > the hive. In one direction it reduced ot restricted and in the other was > open. Maybe I'm just dreaming. > > Thanks in advance!! > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 15:09:44 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Donovan Subject: Pseudoscorpions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, In 1999 Mark Hale of South Africa posted a message to Bee-L in which he said that hives with Varroa became nearly mite-free soon after several dozen pseudoscorpions appeared among the bees. Later Eddy Lear published a note in a similar vein in a South African beekeeping newsletter. After the confirmation of the presence of Varroa in New Zealand in April this year I contacted Mark and began a literature search, and in July published a short article in The New Zealand Beekeeper Volume 7 Number 6, pp 22-23, 2000: "Could Pseudoscorpions from South African beehives control our Varroa"? Briefly, and as several people have posted, there are reported to be two species of pseudoscorpions living among bees in South African hives. Adults are about 6 mm long. Pseudos (for short) are said to prey upon pollen mites, the bee fly, and insect larvae such as those of wax moths, and also almost certainly larvae of the hive beetles (2 species). Bees are thought not to be preyed upon. I was unable to find any recent research or researchers working on pseudos and honey bees anywhere. However I did find a paper which reported that a pseudo of a different species that lives among bees in the Belgian Congo did appear to kill a bee when the two were confined together in a container. This suggests that great caution needs to be exercised before pseudos are imported into hives of European honey bees. We need to determine whether in fact pseudos will eat Varroa, and whether or not they eat bee eggs and/or larvae. Intriguingly, in 1922 an item in Bee World suggested that perhaps acarine mites erupted because Chelifer cancroides no longer had breeding sites in modern clean sawn-timber hives, whereas skeps had numerous nooks and crannies that sheltered pseudo nests. If this is true, then perhaps restoration of breeding sites for pseudos within our hives may lessen many of the problems being experienced with mites and insects? At least one species of pseudos lives in colonies of the eastern honey bee, so perhaps it predates Varroa, and if so, this may contribute to the lack of a Varroa problem in Apis cerana? The New Zealand Government has recently established a fund for research on Varroa. I will apply for support to travel to South Africa to determine whether pseudos do in fact eat Varroa, and also bee eggs etc. If Varroa ar eaten, but bees are not, the next step would be to introduce pseudos to our European subspecies of bees in quarantine to discover whether the two are compatable. If they are, whether pseudos should be introduced to New Zealand would have to be considered by our Government-run Environmental Risk Management Authority ( a sort of court that hears cases for and against proposals to introduce new organisms to NZ). So to date there appears to be every possibility that South African pseudos are indeed eating Varroa, and are not eating bees. Objective evidence as to whether this is so is yet to be produced. If true, and if pseudos and European bees are compatable, we may have a biological control for Varroa that could be introduced to beehives everywhere. A bonus is that other pestiferous mites and insects may also be controlled. However again a word of caution. We do not know if bees may be eaten, so pseudos should not be moved out of Africa until research produces facts. If pseudos ate bee eggs and/or larvae, introducing pseudos to our hives could be disastrous. Nevertheless, what we do know about pseudos suggests that they are entirely beneficial, and that their absence from modern `clean' hives is abnormal. Best wishes to all, Barry Donovan. ________ CAUTION: The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential. If you read this message and you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. Any opinions or views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of their employer. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 01:11:10 -0600 Reply-To: busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob and Elizabeth Harrison Subject: Re: Pseudoscorpions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Barry Donovan wrote: > Briefly, and as several people have posted, there are reported to be two species of pseudoscorpions living among bees in South African hives. Adults are about 6 mm long. Pseudos (for short) are said to prey upon pollen mites, the bee fly, and insect larvae such as those of wax moths, and also almost certainly larvae of the hive beetles (2 species). Bees are thought not to be preyed upon. Sorry Barry but bees and larva are thought to be preyed on according to the article in Bee Culture by Dewey Caron and the book *Honey Bee Pests,Predators and diseases*. But pseudoscorpions could never be considered a serious pest to a strong hive of bees. I ask you how these arachinids are going to pull adult varroa off adult bees when they hid in cracks of hives? How are they going to bypass nurse bees and pull varroa off larva being maintained by nurse bees when they live in corner cracks of hives? I can't blame you for grabbing the research money and heading to south Africa. I wouldn't mind going myself with our below zero weather in Missouri. I remain very very skeptical. > At least one species of pseudos lives in colonies of the eastern honey bee, so perhaps it predates Varroa, and if so, this may contribute to the lack of a Varroa problem in Apis cerana? We all know the simple reason A.cerana survives varroa is because varroa doesn't reproduce in A.cerana worker brood . All research shows this to be the case. In my opinion finding out why that is so would be more important than chasing pseudos but again only one beekeepers opinion. So far not one researcher on the planet has been able to explain for sure why varroa doesn't reproduce in A.cerana worker brood. > > The New Zealand Government has recently established a fund for research on Varroa. I will apply for support to travel to South Africa to determine whether pseudos do in fact eat Varroa, and also bee eggs etc. If Varroa ar eaten, but bees are not, the next step would be to introduce pseudos to our European subspecies of bees in quarantine to discover whether the two are compatable. If they are, whether pseudos should be introduced to New Zealand would have to be considered by our Government-run E > So to date there appears to be every possibility that South African pseudos are indeed eating Varroa, and are not eating bees. Objective evidence as to whether this is so is yet to be produced. If true, and if pseudos and European bees are compatable, we may have a biological control for Varroa that could be introduced to beehives everywhere. I remain very skeptical but try to keep a open mind. Pseudoscorpions are arachnids and to think they would only prey on varroa and not larva or bees is hard for me to believe. My research shows at least four species in Africa: Engsenius sculpuratus,E. fulleri, E. ugandanus and E. somalicus. As a realist the largest concentration of pseudoscorpions found in one hive in Belize Central America by Dewey Caron was around 200( most hives less than 20) so that tells me the bees will remove and kill any larger amounts. We have got at summers end thousands of varroa in our hives. I don't believe 200 pseudoscorpions could control our varroa problem. Good luck with the research but I remain skeptical. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 20:00:46 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Martin Subject: Re: Pseudoscorpions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello everybody, I have seen Pseudoscorpion inside my hives a few times. My grandgrandfother and older beekeepers called him " a good ghost of hive ". Beekeepers talk, Pse* is beneficial animal, becouse he feed larve of insect ( gray butterfly and his larve feed wax - sorry , I don´t know how to call english ). Somebody talked , Pse* could hunt Varroa, but I don´t think it. Marry christmas for you all and your bees ( for Pse* too ) Martin Hromadko Czech republic > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 12:48:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Lipscomb Subject: Re: Pseudoscorpions In-Reply-To: <200012241543.KAA15397@listserv.albany.edu>; from busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM on Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 01:11:10AM -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > considered a serious pest to a strong hive of bees. I ask you how these > arachinids are going to pull adult varroa off adult bees when they hid > in cracks of hives? How are they going to bypass nurse bees and pull > varroa off larva being maintained by nurse bees when they live in corner > cracks of hives? I can't blame you for grabbing the research money and > heading to south Africa. I wouldn't mind going myself with our below > zero weather in Missouri. I remain very very skeptical. > My thoughts would be that they took advantage of fallen mites to gain a quick snack. -- | The Libertarian Party does not have the answers to all of your problems... But they are at least honest enough to say so. AA4YU http://www.beekeeper.org http://www.q7.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 18:09:28 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Re: R: Re: Miticide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You are right!! Sorry, just proves that one shouldn't rush messages Peter ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 15:11:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "George J. Biles" Subject: Re: Hive Winter Reducers Comments: To: Ham Morton For a sliding metal ventilated hive closer check out M. J. Miller & Sons, 3595 TR414, Dundee, OH 44624 (no telephone). George ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 09:04:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael W Stoops Subject: Re: Mad Bee Disease. Coming Soon to Your Neighbourhood? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ---------- >From: John Mitchell >To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu > > "Double-truck," full-color ads for Gaucho are appearing in farming magazines > in the U.S. now. Double-trucks are ads that run across two pages, the > splashiest and most expensive. As litigationist as we in the U.S. are, and the liberality of juries (generally speaking), maybe if we bee keepers send a warning (not a threat) to the company/ies that produces/markets Gaucho that lawsuits containing loss compensation, loss of income, replacement costs, etc. WILL be forthcoming if it becomes apparant that Gaucho does have severe adverse effects on the honey bee population, we can maybe get the company/ies to take a second look at what they are planning to do. It's a littel late, I realize, considering the expenses already incurred in advertising and production/distribution already incurred. but..... After all, look at what has happened to the cigarette industry. Mike Stoops Located 1/2 way between Mobile and Montgomery, Alabama, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 09:17:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael W Stoops Subject: Re: Moving Bees Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > In a message dated 12/22/00 8:56:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, > mcoldiron@mailroom.com writes: > >> Could you talk a little more about the heat exhaustion you talk about when >> moving hives. I'll be moving hive in the summer too and have not heard >> anyone talk about heat exhaustion yet. > Note also that once you experience heat exhaustion you become a LOT more susceptable to a reoccurance. As mentioined in the previous post, prevention is of paramount importance. Really super hydrate your body beforehand. Drink so much water that you have to urinate at least twice in the morning and twice in the afternoon. And, you don't really have to use electrolyte solutions if you superhydrate beforehand. My experience comes from my National Guard experiences on active duty for training in the field at Fort Hood, Texas in late June - mid July for a number of years. Most of our heat casualties occured just from servicemembers not acclimated to the high heat not concuming large enough quantities of water beforehand and during the exercise. After two summers of high heat incidents, the command insisted on copious water consumption and heat realted injuries dropped to almost nothing. Those that did occur again seemed to be the result of the servicemember not hydrating enough beforehand. Mike Stoops Staff Sergeant Texas Army National Guard (at the time) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 09:07:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael W Stoops Subject: Re: Moving Bees Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ---------- >From: Ham Morton >To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu >Subject: Moving Bees > 1. Do you have any suggestions on closing and moving bees using trailers. Move at night and use red light to inset moving screens into the intrances after dark, before moving. Mike Stoops ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:36:31 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Winter reducers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Would I be correct in saying that if Open Mesh Floors are used in hives that this will mean that it will not be necessary to keep on changing the size of the entrances since the hive will have enough ventilation, and a small entrance can be permanently used? Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock, Dublin 18, Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 18:09:17 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anonymous Ok Subject: Re: Moving Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use smoke to get the bees in the hives and place screen wire over the entrance as i move my bees in the eve or nighttime. it helps keep them cooler and they get a chance to calm down before letting them out the next morning. also i am sure a good water source is nearby. this is just the way i do it. it may not be right but it works for me. JIM(kyhoneyman) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 16:39:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Winter reducers In-Reply-To: <200012242258.RAA19770@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Would I be correct in saying that if Open Mesh Floors are used in hives that > this will mean that it will not be necessary to keep on changing the size of > the entrances since the hive will have enough ventilation, and a small > entrance can be permanently used? > Sincerely > Tom Barrett Hi Tom: I have run 6 hives that way for over a year. The small permanent entrance seems to be all they need. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 10:45:15 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael palmer Subject: moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I used to move 600 colonies onto apples each May. We loaded them one at a time by hand. The only time there was trouble was when we screened them in. They seem to get panicked when screened. Moving unscreened bees is really no big deal. Two people on the ground smoke the hive, and load it on the trailer. A third person on the trailer smokes it again and moves it into position.The bees hardly come out intil the hive is into position. Place the first row with the entrance facing back, and the next row facing forward. Because of the protruding bottom boards, a 4 - 6 inch channel is created. Repeat the pattern till the trailer is loaded. When the destination is reached, blow lots of smoke into the channels from the upwind side. The bees will go back in the hive.Pick the hive up and unload it. I've done this without veil or gloves many times.In really hot weather, increase the size of the channels between hives with a 2x4 laid flat on the bed. My bees are on pallets now. Palleted bees don't even need to be smoked. Sure they come pouring out, but if it is dark, they don't leave the outside of the hive. I would think moving bees permanently located on a trailer woul be done similarly. Wait till dark, hook up the trailer, and go. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 22:24:18 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Re: Mad Bee Disease. Coming Soon to Your Neighbourhood? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, I suggest that you ask the relevant authorities to supply to the responsible Beekeeping Authorities a copy of : 1. The dossier that Bayer presented to get authorization of their product relating to each crop that is to be treated, i.e. Maize, Canola, Sunflower etc.-- including support material. 2. Find out the time period for residual activity of Imidacloprid and its resulting metabolites. - and find out on what basis it was calculated. 3. Find out if they have presented documentation "sub lethal effects".on bees. 4. Check all documentation for dates and places, whether it is truly independent info. or from people working for Bayer. If the info. is not given then ask yourself why - to my mind if they are proud of their product they will not hide the true facts. Good luck and don't give up! Peter ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 11:41:38 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Housel Subject: Re moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hand move bees small truck at a time. Smoking and loading as described in other emails. The fun came when I left one hive needing repairs and was very heavy. I had a truck full and left it. I moved the bees during the May time which is an average temperature above the brood temperature inside the hive. I left bees in the air at the site (I think they stayed out over night). When I went back to pick the hive up the outside walls were covered inches deep in bees. I suited and smoked. I smoked again and they still where on the outside. At this point they started to go into the air and on the suit. I tried to pick them up killing some under my hands. Two suppers on the truck and two brood boxes to go. At this time there was five or ten inside the veil. Took some stings on the face. Left the hive and walked away trying to get composure to finish this half way job. My daughter (inside the truck) was laughing cause I was doing the Hawaiian Slap dance going out over the field. By this time my suit was peppered with stings. I went back again grabbed the top brood box and got it to the truck. I got stung on the end of the nose-eyes went glossy-nose started running and I was in trouble. I kept moving with blurring sight and a brush to remove the bees. My nose swelled and I got to play the red nose reindeer for a few days. I carry an empty box with me so I don't have to hug the hives that are too full to get all the bees inside. I don't leave a hive behind to get the rest of the bees anymore, either. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:56:56 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Mann Subject: Re: Mad Bee Disease. Coming Soon to Your Neighbourhood? In-Reply-To: <200012260215.VAA05440@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter Dillon wrote: >I suggest that you ask the relevant authorities to supply to the >responsible Beekeeping Authorities a copy of : >1. The dossier that Bayer presented to get authorization of their >product relating to each crop that is to be treated, i.e. Maize, Canola, >Sunflower etc.-- including support material. >2. Find out the time period for residual activity of Imidacloprid and >its resulting metabolites. - and find out on what basis it was >calculated. >3. Find out if they have presented documentation "sub lethal effects".on >bees. >4. Check all documentation for dates and places, whether it is truly >independent info. or from people working for Bayer. > >If the info. is not given then ask yourself why - to my mind if they are >proud of their product they will not hide the true facts. This list is worth having handy. It seems logical, and in some ways it is. But far more work is involved than many think; and, worse, the resulting paper image is in any case not reliable. I have bad news about this approach to ecology of pesticides. A decade advising successive NZ ministers of health on poisons showed me that the approach Peter outlines, while logical, is likely to be frustrating, complex, & expensive (especially as more individuals get involved). The senior executives of Industrial Biotest, a corporation which generated many of the data such as Peter envisages (e.g. for registration of Roundup´®), served considerable gaol sentences for fraud - the "measurements" were forged. Transnational accountancy & management corporations can today similarly print out (after stalling you off for months) overwhelming batches of alleged toxicology which require scarce expertise, probably expensive, to understand; and you safely assume that the tests reported will be inadequate in design, omitting many questions which informed beekeepers would want answered. I could write much more (and have done); but my conclusion is that the design of such testing is generally inadequate. Fluvalinate is a fair example - many are worse - the measurements that have been reported are very limited compared with what thorough testing would require. I have no opinion on whether any of those particular results are forged, but the Industrial Biotest debacle must stand as a warning that forgery on a large scale has been known in this dark corner of science. Some rodents are metaphorical, some are virtual! The recent observations of French beekeepers on toxicity of Gaucho® are worth vastly more than all the printouts you could get from its manufacturer. Having said all that, an active beekeepers' assn would get from the USEPA a formal statement of the toxicology, with special regard to bees, of Gaucho. R - Robt Mann consultant ecologist P O Box 28878 Remuera, Auckland 1005, New Zealand (9) 524 2949 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 21:16:14 -0600 Reply-To: dehenry@mb.sympatico.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Doug Henry Subject: Re: Re moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This storey reminds me of the time I got my brother to help me move a few hives, around 6 or so in 1998. We loaded them on my 1/2 ton truck at my house, no problem. When we arrived at the drop off point a few km away it was dark. While carrying the hives the few metres to the previously arranged hive stands a number of bees got under my brothers protective bee veil. At this point it was completely dark, he was running and shouting while I couldn't stop laughing. I had to enlist the help of my wife to find his glasses the next day, some 2 kms from where we unloaded the bees. I guess we wern't too smart about moving then. Doug Henry Lockport Mb Michael House wrote: > I hand move bees small truck at a time. Smoking and loading as described in > other emails. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 11:10:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: re Moving Bees Michael Housel wrote: "My daughter (inside the truck)was laughing cause I was doing the Hawaiian slap dance going out over the field" Doug Henry wrote: "At this point it was completely dark,he was running & shouting while I couldn't stop laughing" Hello All, It may seem odd to most people but laughing is what most beekeepers working together do when something like the above happens. The *Bee in the bonnet* is going to happen every once in a while. Other than helping pinch *a bee in the bonnet* with the veil little else can be done by the other beekeeper. All commercial beekeepers I have worked with do not run, slap or shout but when you work bees everyday you devise other ways of dealing with *bees in the bonnet*. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 09:48:21 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: Pseudoscorpions Comments: To: busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Bob, Harrison, Yes, as you say the literature says that pseudos are THOUGHT to prey upon bees and larvae. However I've been unable to find any objective study that reports whether or not they actually do. Adult pseudos of the two South African species are observed by Mark Hale and Eddy Lear to live right among the bees, where of course they would have direct access to mites, while a brief report from around 1920 says that pseudo nests are made along the edges of floorboards. On the other hand adult Chelifer cancroides in Europe apparently lived around the edges of bee clusters. However again I have been unable to find any definitive study. There seem to be no reports of pseudos killing hives, or even of pseudos causing any problems to beekeepers anywhere. So even if pseudos did kill some bees, but suppressed mites and other pests, the ultimate outcome may still be very beneficial. But all this is speculation. I may not be able to raise funds to get to South Africa, so unless someone can undertake research we will be able to do nothing but continue to speculate about a possible biocontrol for Varroa and other mite and insect pests within hives. Regards, Barry Donovan. ________ CAUTION: The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential. If you read this message and you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. Any opinions or views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of their employer. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 15:48:35 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Pseudoscorpions Comments: cc: rwthorp@ucdavis.edu, phwells@earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Barry Donovan wrote of his plans (and hopes) to travel to South Africa and investigate the possibility that pseudoscorpions might control varroa mites in colonies. Bob Harrison responded (in part): ******* "I ask you how these arachinids are going to pull adult varroa off adult bees when they hide in cracks of hives? How are they going to bypass nurse bees and pull varroa off larva being maintained by nurse bees when they live in corner cracks of hives? I can't blame you for grabbing the research money and heading to South Africa. I wouldn't mind going myself with our below zero weather in Missouri. I remain very very skeptical." ******* I admire Bob's healthy skepticism but offer a couple of examples from history that 1) illustrate the value of following seemingly obscure leads and 2) the potential value of research travel. 1) Before 1800 Edward Jenner heard that milkmaids who had gotten cowpox reported that they then would not get smallpox, no matter how severe the epidemic. Jenner followed up that lead, conducted a series of simple experiments, and published a short paper in 1798. His results revealed how milkmaids came to be immune to smallpox. His work, of course, eventually led to total eradication of smallpox in the world's human population. [One can find more details about Jenner's experiments on pages 291-293 in Wenner, A.M. and P.H. Wells. 1990. Anatomy of a Controversy: The Question of a "Language" Among Bees. Columbia University Press.] 2) In about 1868 the cottony-cushion scale insect appeared in California citrus orchards. In less than 20 years the citrus industry was on its knees; many growers uprooted or burned their trees. In the meantime, Charles Riley of the USDA managed to determine that the scale had apparently come from Australia and attempted to obtain funds for one of his group to travel to Australia and learn about any natural controls that could be used against the scale. The U.S. Congress refused to permit the expenditure of USDA funds for foreign travel, but Riley and others found a way around that problem by getting the US State Department to fund expenses (all of $2000) for an entomologist to travel to Australia, obstensibly to attend an 1888/89 International Exposition in that country. The entomologist selected (Albert Koebele) did not, of course, attend the exposition but instead visited citrus growers and entomologists to find a natural control against the scale insect. And succeed he did. By 1890 cottony-cushion scale in California had been completely decimated, at a total cost of less than $5000 (including salaries). Unfortunately, the use of new pesticides on crops after 1940 (including DDT) put the scale problem back to square one for awhile. (Doesn't this all sound familiar?) ********* I would thus suggest that Barry go to South Africa if he can and do whatever possible to learn whether pseudoscorpions do, indeed, attack and control varroa mites. The best contact, of course, will be beekeepers such as Eddy Lear and Mark Hale, who can give him a head start on the project. Perhaps they could ahead of Barry's arrival set up some single frame observation hives, innoculated with pseudoscorpions and illuminated by red light, to observe the behavior of pseudoscorpions "in the dark," as it were. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 [http://www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm] ******************************************************************** * * "Aesthetic judgments do not arbitrate scientific discourse.... * Ultimately, theories are judged by how they fare when faced * with cold, hard, experimental facts." * Brian Greene, 1999 * ******************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 12:09:36 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Arnold B Hermoso Subject: a novice from the Philippines... Content-Type: text/plain MABUHAY! Greetings to all beekeepers. My name is Arnold Hermoso and I live in one of the urban cities of Manila (least desirable area to start a colony :)). I am a Veterninary Med. student. I just started my first beekeeping adventure last week(only one colony). Here in the Philippines we have this almost all year round blooming season, so it's not that too late for me. Our major flow starts on late January until May. I am more interested in sustainable beekeeping. So that I could help other less fortunate people here in my country. Most of beekeepers here are on the "commercial" side. I myself experienced it, I spent a huge amount of hard earn money just to attend a basic beekeeping seminar. I hope some of you guys out there lend your knowledge and skills to help me to propagate the wonders and benefits of beekeeping here in my country. Most especially to our farmers, they're the most neglected entities in our country... Well so much for my personal sentiments. I just hope I could gather enough information and help from this board. Beekeeping here in the Philippines has a very huge potential. But sad to say only few knows where the honey flow is... More power to all... I am very sorry if I use my sting... God Bless :) "Let us all share our honey so that we could harvest more..." Arnold "Anoy" Hermoso Manila,Philippines __________________________________ www.edsamail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 10:56:54 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: 'Happy Hive Salts' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All When trawling the Internet recently I came across the info below from a UK company. They have sent me the data as .PDF files, and the claims are persuasive, at least they are well documented. Maybe this is just a latter day Essential Oils cure - but maybe not! Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 With Happy Hive Salts the pure image of honey can remain intact. Not only are the salts guaranteed safe and reliable ,they also extend the foraging life of the honeybees due to `hormesis`protecting them from pesticides and leading to a better honey crop .No other Varroa treatment does this. Every pack of Copper Gluconate organic salts will treat 5 ,20 or 40 colonies twice,both spring and fall.They are not a shock treatment where mite levels are allowed to build up to high levels rather they continue to work over the mid to long term resulting in only very low levels of mites at any time. Appropriate doses of Copper Gluconate are added to the bees food .A varroa absorbing the haemolymph of a bee or drone nourished in this way ,is asphyxiated within some days .Indeed ,Varroas respiration is assured by external membranes (peritremes)and by particular cells (haemocyanins)transporting the oxygen to its whole organism .Copper salts `block`these cells activity and are harmless for the bees because their respiration is assured by a trachael system. A FREE sample of Happy Hive Salts together with valuable scientific reports on the use of Copper Gluconate is available on request. A Zipped file containing the articles in PDF format can be sent by E Mail. The Adobe Acrobat Reader is available freely from www.adobe.com Please contact- BICKERSTAFFES HONEY 76 Buckingham Road Maghull Liverpool L31 7DP UK E Mail mrbee@honeybeez.freeserve.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 21:44:30 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Juderon Subject: Feeding honey to infants Comments: To: NBAList MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For your info -- the NZ Ministry of Health has altered its advice to health professionals regarding the introduction of honey to an infant's diet from 12 months to 6 months in line with the lack of evidence regarding infant botulism due to consumption of honey. This follows submissions made by the NNFA, Cliff Van Eaton and Peter Molan at the Ministry of Health's request. Regards Ron Law ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:19:55 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: a novice from the Philippines... Comments: cc: abh@edsamail.com.ph MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/27/00 6:56:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, abh@EDSAMAIL.COM.PH writes: > I hope some of you guys out there lend your knowledge and skills to help me > to propagate the wonders and benefits of beekeeping here in my country. Most > especially to our farmers, they're the most neglected entities in our country. Anoy, Welcome to the Bee List. There is a wealth of information here to be found. You may find a lot by doing searches of the archives, as well. If you want to help farmers, you can get knowledgeable about pollination. A good resource for this is The Pollination Home Page. You can get the general principles from this. When it comes to specific crops, the page is probably the weakest in tropical crops. If you know of any other resources that can be added to help boost up the site concerning tropical crops, please let me know. There are also links to many beekeeper resources, basic horticultural resources, biodiversity resources, etc. at this page. The beekeeper resource page will tell you how to search the bee list archives and other sources. There is a worldwide list of beekeepers who provide pollination service. Unfortunately we have no listings from the Philippines. Perhaps you can help us make contact with some who do pollination. May your flowers be full of nectar. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:34:24 -0000 Reply-To: "j.burgess4" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "j.burgess4" Subject: Re: Miticide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From previous messages: >I got a question for everybody; Has anyone of you came > across the miticide "clartan" or "clatan" or something > sounding like this, because this is what another >apiary (Philippines) is using for Varoa mite control. >I don't know the particulars because it was just sold >to me by the beekeeper I bought one of my nucs from , >although I asked, he could not give me the >particulars. It came in a highly absorbent piece/strip >of wood, so I guess it was in liquid form and the wood >was soaked in it. and: > The chemical of Klartan is FLUVALINATE > Best Regards, Massimiliano. The problem with Klartan is that it is not available in a form tested and approved for use in beekeeping. It is thought that beekeepers in Italy used a liquid agricultural formulation of Klartan, absorbed on a porous piece of wood or similar to combat varroa. Because there was no control over the amount applied, this practise inevitably gave rise to resistance, not only to Klartan, but to the whole class of synthetic pyrethroids including Bayvarol and Apistan. At the risk of repeating what has already been stated many times on this list, stick to approved products, used according to the label. John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru/The Welsh Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 14:12:30 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael palmer Subject: Mexico MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are there any Mexican beekeepers on this list? Son apicotures de Mexico en aqui. Pardoneme, mi espanol es de esquella 30 anos antes. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 21:45:32 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Post Subject: Re: Moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit T & M Weatherhead wrote: > > 1. Do you have any suggestions on closing and > moving bees using trailers. > > The easyest way is to use a smoker and the bees > will move in very quickly. I hope everyone had a blessed festive season and I would like to wish everyone a very prosperous and joyful 2001. We move many hives on small 1 ton pick-up trucks, loading 30 per trip. Because of the habits of Apis mellifera capensis - who decides it's nicer outside the hive than inside while you drive along, and flies off the load - we have to close our hives up. We also have to pass through many urban areas in our delivery routes and capensis is a little defensive at times. We use ordinary woven nylon fruit and vegetable bags (orange bags) as closures. They are easy to fit as they assume the shape of the entrance, let lots of air through and allows for water to enter the hive when we hose the load down. Ordinary silicon sealant is used to fill the finer cracks. Our bees will find any small hole and POUR out. We used to work with smoke but have found that, due to the gorging of the bees and the movement of the vehicle, the bees will often overheat and vomit, causing severe stress, and collapse of the comb and/or the colony (even with full foundation wired with four strands). We close after dark, before sunrise or during inclement weather, wet the load and drive like lightning. This also precludes the use of a trailer as the time to complete the double load often leads to overheating as well. Top-hive travel screens are not an option, our winters are cool and damp. A number of beekeepers are now incorporating mesh floors. Our bees collect a lot of propolis though and quickly seal an entire gauze floor. Robert Post ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 21:48:07 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Post Subject: Re: Researchers are using honeybees to spread a natural fungicide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert Mann wrote in part: > Scientists at Ohio State and Cornell > universities say they've found a > natural way to prevent strawberry plants from > rotting. Researchers are > using honeybees to spread a natural fungicide, > and they say their method > works better than commercial sprays. I seem to recall that work on this was published a number of years ago. I have a paper on it somewhere and am trying to lay my hands on it. One wonders why the resurgence in interest? It's practical application (large commercial operations) could cause a few logistical hic'ups (additional dispensers, etc.). Perhaps this is what has been cleared up now. Robert Post ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 13:04:53 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Miticide Comments: To: "j.burgess4" In-Reply-To: <200012271741.MAA06019@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The problem with Klartan is that it is not available in a form tested > and approved for use in beekeeping. I am not sure what the laws and regulations are in the Philippines, but Klartan and other formulations of fluvalinate *have* been tested by beekeepers worldwide, and used widely. Whether such testing and use has been scientific or wise or legal is open to debate, but I suspect that Western European and North American beekeepers are newcomers to this problem -- and also very much in a minority. > It is thought that beekeepers in Italy used a liquid agricultural > formulation of Klartan, absorbed on a porous piece of wood or similar > to combat varroa. I don't think there is much doubt that just about anything that can kill mites has been used and is being used with varying degrees of success -- and governmental acceptance -- today in large areas of Europe and Asia. The methods of application are many, and range from strips of paper or wood, to drops of chemical placed on the hive floor, and to aerosol sprays in combination with acetone and other carriers. In China a fluvalinate varroa strips are sold in a nice package that contains something that resembles a cloth strip. It promises to get rid of varroa 'Once and for all'. See http://www.varroa.com (Is the server still working or has it disappeared behind the Rice Curtain?) --- As an aside: I sat with Mr Wang, the proprietor of the firm that makes it, in a cafeteria at Apimondia and had no idea who he was until after when I read his brochure and saw his picture. My Chinese was as entirely lacking as was his English :) > Because there was no control over the amount > applied, this practise inevitably gave rise to resistance, not only to > Klartan, but to the whole class of synthetic pyrethroids including > Bayvarol and Apistan. This is often repeated, but is at best an oversimplification, and at worst a lie that those who sell a penny's worth of chemical for $2 don't mind having repeated often. There is a lesson to be learned here that will be lost if we misunderstand what happened and blame the beekeepers instead of those who should have been designing and supplying an IPM regime. It was well known *at the outset* that fluvalinate and related substances would have a life expectancy of about ten years if used annually against varroa unless rotated frequently with other different methods of control. After that time, resistance was to be expected to appear somewhere. This has been proven to be true in Europe and also North America. In both places. The first resistance was spotted in southern regions. We must also remember that varroa invaded some such regions long before other places. Italy is in the south and varroa control there is not the same kind of problem that it is in the northern areas where brood rearing is seasonal and varroa can often be controlled with one annual application. Therefore, multiple applications are necessary annually. No matter what method of application was used and at what dose, resistance was inevitable. Whether or not the resistance was hastened by the particular substance which was chosen and the delivery vehicle, we shall never know. The basic idea of using one type of control only was entirely responsible for the development of resistance. Governments, researchers and chemical companies let us down. Period. There *are* good reasons, however to consider carefully the advisability of using a raw agricultural chemical in a honey bee hive that produces food for humans. Safety, efficacy and legality are all concerns. In the case of fluvalinate, there are several significant points in favour of Apistan(r) compared to Klartan, etc. Apistan uses a less common form, fluvalinate-tau, a non-water soluble form that does not have an affinity for honey, (although, being oil related, it will enter wax to some degree). Apistan also has been tested and proven not to contaminate honey if correctly applied. This is extremely important if one is trying to produce honey for sale on the market. Buyers *do* look for contamination, and any residues can be reason for condemnation of a batch of honey or costly recalls. Other 'approved' chemicals may be no better -- or even worse -- than unapproved methods, but if there is a problem, you do have someone besides yourself to blame. > At the risk of repeating what has already been stated many times on > this list, stick to approved products, used according to the label. This is good advice. If you go wrong following your local mandates, you will have lots of company. Nonetheless, this is a worldwide list and what is the law and custom in northern developed countries may not apply at all in countries where there is no approval process or rules. allen http://www.rossrounds.com/HoneyBee/Diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 21:58:21 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Post Subject: Formic Acid experience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At a field day of the Western Cape Bee Industry Association, during which many of the substances and methods of combating Varroa and/or it's effects were discussed and evaluated, formic acid was also considered. The day was held mainly to evaluate the effects of Varroa and its resultant treatment - if any - on beehives used for intensive fruit pollination. It was made clear that the APPLICATION of Formic (protection of the bees from the acid and determination of a dosage) is still one of the problems that prevents regular use. Two methods were discussed of applying the acid. One made use of the typical inverted bottle system inside the hive, for delivering a regular supply of the vapour. The other method (my proposal) was to saturate a piece of absorbent padding (check the archives for more on this) that was previously slipped into a thin gauge plastic bag. It had been noticed that bees will immediately propolise up any absorbent padding containing formic acid in the hives. It has also been noted that bees will aggressively remove any thin gauge plastic bags from their hives. The combination means that the bees will start biting the bag to remove it, releasing the vapour, and then have it sealed up again. This process (and the even osmotic movement of the gasses through the bag material) should allow for a (fairly) regular dosage of Formic vapour. Trials have been done during the past spring pollination season using the pad and bag method. This method was decided on due to the lengthy time the bees spend doing pollination without being attended to. Any of the proprietary chemicals would have needed removal over this time. Beehives are moved in transit for up to four hours, closed completely with a nylon mesh bag in the entrance. Water is used to cool the hives in transit. Hives were provided with 30 ml of 80% (yes I know about the queen loss potential) irrespective of their size or condition. Pads were placed at the back of the brood nest on the brood frames. Some hives were not given anything. All hives that were of pollination standard were rented out successfully for an average of well over 2 pollinations per hive over nearly a three month period At the time of subjective evaluation after pollination, it seems - throughout all 600 colonies - as if hives that had been provided with Formic pads consistently showed better brood pattern, more honey in the supers and overall better health than did ones that were not. One hive, accidentally given two pads (one on the brood frames and one on the super frames) seemed better than any of the others. Drone brood was examined for Varroa and consistently showed no more than two Varroa per cell. Most cells showed none, the average being far below 0.5. (November is early summer and the Northern hemisphere equivalent of May). Not, granted, a scientific study, but one to add my experience to the Formic debate. Robert Post ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 23:36:38 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: EXTOXNET PIP - FLUVALINATE Comments: To: "Busybeeacres@Discoverynet. Com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C06D39.31FE80A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C06D39.31FE80A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ace.orst.edu/info/extoxnet/pips/fluvalin.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C06D39.31FE80A0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="EXTOXNET PIP - FLUVALINATE.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="EXTOXNET PIP - FLUVALINATE.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://ace.orst.edu/info/extoxnet/pips/fluvalin.htm [InternetShortcut] URL=http://ace.orst.edu/info/extoxnet/pips/fluvalin.htm Modified=A05F6CC3736DC001CF ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C06D39.31FE80A0-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 14:14:08 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "T.W. Culliney" Subject: Address of David De Jong MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could anyone out there give me the e-mail address of honey bee researcher David De Jong. I think he's with the University of Sao Paulo. Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 16:05:52 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Mann Subject: brief assessment of fluvalinate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear fellow beekeepers I have examined the 1996 Extoxnet bulletin on toxicology of fluvalinate (the generic name for the active ingredient of Apistan®, Mavrik, and several other branded commercial insecticides), main info used in registration of this insecticide/miticide. Severeal wise beeks have outlined the real world of 'active ingredient' bought cheaper and then administered by home-made dispensers. Needless to say the old line applies 'OK only if used according to label', and I would strongly discourage expts with novel routes, except with expert advice and preferably an actual research plan with someone like Blane. Coming to the active ingredient called generically fluvalinate, it is stated to be of the chemical family 'pyrethroids' i.e. its molecular structure is similar to those of the natural insecticides found in the famous African daisy _Pyrethrum_. However, it is substantially different from natural pyrethrins. In particular, it contains 4 halogen atoms - 3 fluorine atoms and one chlorine atom - covalently bonded to carbon. This is a major drawback, on the experience with such compounds to date. Such carbon-halogen bonds are very unusual in nature (and when they occur are typically toxic e.g. some natural antibiotics). The general drift of info accumulated since Carson's far-sighted 'Silent Spring' (1962) has been an increasing variety of disconcerting biological harm from such compounds. Organochlorines are, broadly speaking, bad news - especially when chronically absorbed. Organisms generally lack enzymes to metabolise them, and bioaccumulation is the general rule. The Extoxnet bull lacks info on tests for such possibilities with fluvalinate. The stated rapid excretion is not the same as evidence on actual residues in the body. The specific statements in the infosheet tend to read reassuringly, with the exception of high toxicity for fish and aquatic invertebrates (which would not obviously be exposed by use in beekeeping generally, but might be in some circumstances) . But my dozen years on the Toxic Substances Board taught me to distrust such claims by the chemical industry. Numerous pesticides got legal approval on the basis of such soothing reads - forged by Industrial Biotest Corp, whose top executives served years in gaol upon conviction for faking these "results". The chemical industry is, as an historical tendency, a refuge for crooks. I could recount many detailed direct experiences consistent with this general pattern. Therefore, I for one disbelieve that fluvalinate has been properly tested or that the summarised claims are reliable. My personal inclination would therefore be to disparage the concept that our beekeeping should adopt chronic - tho' not continuous - administration of any such organohalide compound to our bees. The only statement about bees in the bull is: > Fluvalinate was not toxic to honeybees > exposed to residues left on cotton leaves after application of > unltralow volume (ULV) and emulsifiable concentrate (EC) formulations This is a very different mode of exposure from what prevails in a hive with strips of Apistan amongst the bees for a week or two. The present note is intended to be mainly a brief interpretation of the Extoxnet bulletin for those unfamiliar with the relevant science. However, I would like to add a brief vague tentative conclusion. The appraisal of the _Varroa destructor_ threat is truly complex. The first significance of that complexity is to increase the demands on us for sustained politeness in discussing the issue. In this matter, more than in most, honest disagreement is possible; that someone disagrees with you, especially if tentatively, is no excuse for cutting up ugly and uttering personal abuse. Secondly, the relevance of expertise increases as technical details are deemed to be of importance. This will tend to cost money, and indeed those like me who give it away will be viewed as suspect by some. For 3 decades I have tried to interpret for the public problems such as 2,4,5-T and genetic engineering. I can tell you no specific problem has ever seemed to me so genuinely vague & complex as this varroa question, so I am far from dogmatic about whether the hazards of fluvalinate to bees and other spp are justified by the benefits. What I will be dogmatic about is to condemn the universal official neglect of promising R&D projects to control varroa by possible parasites, volatile common chemicals e.g. formic and other organic acids, etc. If anything the synthetic-chemical industry is more influential than ever. R - Robt Mann consultant ecologist P O Box 28878 Remuera, Auckland 1005, New Zealand (9) 524 2949 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 00:08:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: brief assessment of Fluvalinate Robert wrote: I can tell you no specific problem has ever seemed to me so genuinely vague & complex as this varroa question,so I am far from dogmatic about whether the hazards of Fluvalinate to bees and other spp are justified by the benefits. Hello Robert and All, Because of your knowledge of chemicals you see the consequences of the beekeeping worlds actions. This post has no new information for me as Fluvalinate use is history in the U.S.. As with any problem you look at all the possible solutions and make a choice. In the U.S. we did exactly like Europe and got the same result. New Zealand looked at the possible solutions and is doing exactly like Europe and the U.S. have done. By 1989 over 100 of the worlds *most likely* chemicals were tried on varroa. Fluvalinate was the best choice with the least side effects. Many beekeepers in the U.S. owe their survival so far to Fluvalinate. Second choice was Amitraz. Both Fluvalinate and Amitraz are only working in isolated areas now. Coumaphous is working but resistance should surface this spring if things go as in Europe. The other 97 are only 50% effective at best. I hope this post gets posted as I would hate to have to remove the statement I am about to make to get the above posted. Please moderators! Our U.S. researchers have said privately to me the worst is yet to come. The last ten years were the good years with chemicals with 98% varroa control. We are now out of the most promising chemicals. IPM measures like varroa resistant bees,small cell size, screened bottom boards and drone brood removal may be all there is. It is true formic acid is providing some control but when ever you don't get 100% kill you are going to get resistance. Formic acid gell should work for beekeepers in the south but is to temperature dependent for nothern beekeepers unless they pull supers and treat in August in the U.S.. If we were in a game of Chess with Varroa I would say we are in the end game in the U.S.. We have made our best moves and now we await the conclusion. The bee suppliers will tell you a miracle cure is right around the corner but cures in beekeeping move slowly into beekeeping circles and I personally see no cures at least in the U.S. ready to be released. I have been on the varroa front line since the start and still don't know the way things are going to end. I know our researchers have almost quit looking at chemical solutions. They even loooked at all the oils and such. The best minds of the beekeeping world have worked on the problem both in Europe and the U.S. and now all thats left is IPM and Russian queens. Many of my friends think I am obsessed with finding a cure for varroa and if they saw the problem as I do they would see the urgency. Many researchers believe the varroa problem will work itself out like the tracheal mite problem did but many commercial beekeepers will go under with that senario while waiting. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:16:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: brief assessment of Fluvalinate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > I know our researchers have almost quit > looking at chemical solutions. They even looked at all the oils and such. The best minds of > > the beekeeping world have worked on the problem both in Europe > and the U.S. and now all that's left is IPM and Russian queens. Many of my > friends think I am obsessed with finding a cure for varroa and if they saw > the problem as I do they would see the urgency. Many researchers believe the > varroa problem will work itself out like the tracheal mite problem did but > many commercial beekeepers will go under with that senario while waiting. > Sincerely, > Bob Harrison > It is possible that we will have to wait for a total collapse of beekeeping and then do a "reset" from mite free stock. The only problem is hoping that mite free stock will exist by the time this happens. Parasites that kill off their hosts as fast as Varroa (3 years?) normally do not last very long. We have helped them by moving them to new ground every few months. There is some thought that most extinctions can be viewed based on the mobility of the host/predator and the time it takes the predator/parasite to kill. If an area can be left "bee free" for three to four years then reintroduction of clean stock may be possible. This may be a problem in the southern United States due to the introduction of the AHB which is more tolerant of Varroa. We may also be limited if the Small Hive Beetle can continue without Bees. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 0100 18:40:45 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Tooley Subject: brief assessment of Fluvalinate Bob Harrison is probably correct in his statement that we are running out of chemical options for varroa treatment.Widespread resistance to Apistan in CA. led to the collapse of many colonies last year (mainly from viruses vectored by varroa)so there was a shortage of hives for almond pollenation. Switching to Coumaphos seems to have temporarily remedied the situation. There was a hope that when Coumaphos begins to fail we could return to fluvalinate.Not so according to one almond grower who has had extensive experience with other types of mite pests.His opinion was once you lose a treatment you never get it back.So where does that leave the practical beekeeper?While taking advantage of every chemical treatment,we need to be at the same time trying out other options that seem sensible.For instance,we know that certain plants burned in the smoker will knock down(but not kill) up to 95% of adult varroa.If they fall through a screened bottom,they are history.Selecting for virus resistant bees is another option.After all,isnt that really what the Buckfast bee was all about,finding bee strains that survived the viruses vectored by tracheal mites?I also believe formic can play a role as it has been in use for a long time and I havent heard of any resistance yet.Essential oils in my experience do not give effective control of varroa but do seem to have a positive effect on secondary diseases. Small cell foundation and Russian queens?That is this years project(maybe). One thing is for certain,the winds of change are starting to blow,and not just for beekeepers! Happy New Year Everyone!, Mike --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using InterStar WebMail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:16:55 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "M.E.A. McNeil" Subject: honey prices Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The current Gevalia catalogue lists a Holiday Honey Giftpack, "Three unique varieties of sun-kissed (sic) honey come in a charming gift package. Individual 3.5oz jars in hazlenut, cranberry and eggnog (I'm not making this up) flavors. USA. $24.95" That's $38 a pound -- not bad. M. McNeil MEA McNeil ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:19:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vivian Donahue Subject: gift of bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I am blessed to be in the position that I have everything in the world I need or want, therefore making it difficult for my kids to find gifts that I would really appreciate. But this Christmas they did both surprise and delight me with a gift from Heifer Project International. It is a charitable organization that people can make donations to fund gifts of livestock to third world countries. My oldest daughter and her husband gave a gift of a beehive and package of bees in my name for my Christmas present. Somewhere in the world, someone is going to learn the joy of becoming a new beekeeper, their family will savor the sweet taste of their own little business, our environment will be improved, and I do not have something I need to return or dust! What a delight! Vivian Donahue Arlington Va ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:41:30 -0000 Reply-To: "j.burgess4" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "j.burgess4" Subject: Re: Miticide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen, I take your point of the difficulties experienced in some parts of the world in combating varroa, and especially your view of the failure of governments etc to develop a second line of defence. When Apistan arrived in the UK the price of Bayvarol immediately dropped substantially. There is currently no UK approved alternative to pyrethroids (Bayvarol/Apistan), so *when* resistance arrives we may well be rushed into an unhappy emergency solution such as Coumaphos. In all fairness I should mention the promising work to find a natural fungal defence against varroa being carried out at Rothamstead. Very promising, but a race against the arrival of resistance. My original point remains. The uncontrolled use of DIY chemicals is liable to lead to early arrival of resistance or contamination of honey. both must be discouraged. Regards, John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru/The Welsh Beekeeper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Dick" > > The methods of application are many, and range from strips of paper or wood, to > drops of chemical placed on the hive floor, and to aerosol sprays in combination > with acetone and other carriers. > >The basic idea of using > one type of control only was entirely responsible for the development of > resistance. Governments, researchers and chemical companies let us down. > > There *are* good reasons, however to consider carefully the advisability of > using a raw agricultural chemical in a honey bee hive that produces food for > humans. Safety, efficacy and legality are all concerns. > > Apistan also has been tested and proven not to contaminate honey if correctly > applied. This is extremely important if one is trying to produce honey for sale