From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 07:55:40 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05212 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:55:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00291 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:58:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141258.HAA00291@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:58:30 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0101B" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 139527 Lines: 2976 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:34:43 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Re: resistance to tetracycline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bonjour from France, Regarding George Imire's comments about G.M.crops etc.. Maybe in his view the best people to investigate are the prof. bee scientists but those scientists that I am in contact with value very much the points of view raised by beekeepers. Often considering it moral support - which they may not be receiving from the establishment. Also letting "real beekeepers teach...... the beehavers...." is more than a touch presumptuous. Many a development has arisen from un-informed individuals - in some quarters it maybe called "brain storming" . A problem with pure research is that it often results in the concerned individuals being so tied up or aloft from the real pressures of hands on reality that they can be floating above or around it. The academic establishment need us as much as we need them - they need our thoughts and comments and we need their results. They are not in contact with the bees in real conditions for most of the time and often do not have the same feel for the bees nor what is happening in a hive. For a researcher a bee's "tremble dance" is a sign of actual intoxication to somebody actually working in the field - who's making the mistake? Keep the comments coming in as it is a sign of discussion that is informing. Regards to all Peter ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 20:16:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Coyle Subject: Pollen Traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for plans on the net for building a pollen trap, can any one help? I know there are different styles, what are the pros and cons of each. Thanking you in advance. -- Ken coyle@golden.net http://home.golden.net/~coyle ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 21:43:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Carrigan Subject: Request for help Fixing leaking wooden frame feeders In-Reply-To: <200012291722.MAA26850@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi, I have a large number of leaking frame feeders. 1/8 inch tempered hardboard sides, glued with I assume is polyurethane glue. They were made quite a few years ago by Blue Heron Enterprises in Alberta. I hate to throw them away. I have had a number of ideas on how to seal them, from dipping in melted wax to removing the hardboard and reinstalling new sides. (may be cheaper or more cost effiecient to just build new ones). Any ideas others may have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. -- Christopher Carrigan Arras, BC V0C 1B0 carrigan@mac.com carrigan@pris.bc.ca http://www.pris.bc.ca/cjvc ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 20:17:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Coyle Subject: Creamed Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I made some creamed honey which turned out fine. However after sitting on the shelf for 2 to 3 weeks it went hard. It was fine up till then. I used the Dyce method, I bought creamed honey from the store and used a 10% starter and after it was done it was stored it at room temperature. -- Ken coyle@golden.net http://home.golden.net/~coyle ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:13:02 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: resistance to tetracycline In-Reply-To: <200101072219.RAA04217@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I think it possible that we have been saved from resistance because we > have used the OTC in syrup solutions which are fairly ineffective. > They would leave a large proportion of non-resistant spores which > would outproduce the (presumably) less efficient organisms with the > superfluous resistance mechanism. When we got the patties which keep > the OTC effective for longer periods, the nonresistant organisms would > be wiped out leaving only the resistant ones to reproduce. This is an interesting interpretation. My understanding has always been that OTC has no effect whatsoever on spores and its only action is in inhibiting vegetative growth. Nonetheless, this appears to be basically the same speculation that has been going around all along. This theory -- and it is only a theory -- makes assumptions that sound plausible, but are AFAIK totally unproven. Widespread acceptance of this story is impeding proper understanding of what is really happening and determining an optimal response in 1.) affected areas, and 2.) non-infected areas. Since it seems no one else has or will undertake this project, today we have initiated contacts to 1.) try to determine if DNA profiles would show if more than one unique episodes of new resistance have occurred, and 2.) if we can gather the necessary samples and get the analysis done. Also: I had promised a long time back when I posted the original question that I would eventually make a post to analyse how OTC works against AFB and whether spores can be generated and have their numbers increase in hives that are being properly and successfully treated with OTC, in light of some research papers that a friend provided to me. I still remember this promise, and will try to get around to it after ABF, but it will take a little careful work. allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:21:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Requesting Advice on Hygienic Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are planning some work this coming year requiring obtaining and/or raising hygienic queens. We plan to try to evaluate this approach, and others, against traditional medication regimes in hives that have some history of AFB. Although we specify 'hygienic', we are aware that what we really want is 'AFB resistant'. We are looking for pointers on costs, methods, suggestions as to stock, open mating vs, AI, etc. Additionally, we are looking for ideas as to how to best get uniformity in hygienic or anti-AFB characteristics, since any individual queen showing a lack of a minimum level of the trait could compromise her hive if this becomes a line of defence. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ Playing Red Rover with AFB ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:28:44 +0800 Reply-To: ilogmria@cav.pworld.net.ph Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Joel F. Magsaysay" Subject: Re: Request for help Fixing leaking wooden frame feeders In-Reply-To: <200101080639.BAA13835@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher, I used to use a lot of wooden frame feeders. They will leak. The cheapest and least bothersome thing to do wil be to dip them in molten paraffin wax. Keep them submerged fo 1 or 2 minutes to allow the hot wax to seep in. If they continue to leak, try a longer dip time. Fashion some tongs as wood equipment will tend to float. Then New Zealanders have a hinged grate which keeps the wood equipment under and frees your hands for other work. It will be good to have a drip tray on which excess wax can drip and flow back into the dip tank. Joel F. Magsaysay ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE FARMS Cavite, Highlands Philippines joel@ilogmaria.com 063 - 46 - 865 - 0018 (home phone) 063 - 917 - 502 - 7538 (Joel's cell phone) 063 - 917 - 477 - 2194 (Voilaine's cell phone) 063 - 912 - 318 - 7517 (Home cell phone) -----Original Message----- From: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology [mailto:BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu]On Behalf Of Christopher Carrigan Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 12:44 PM To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: Request for help Fixing leaking wooden frame feeders Hi, I have a large number of leaking frame feeders. 1/8 inch tempered hardboard sides, glued with I assume is polyurethane glue. They were made quite a few years ago by Blue Heron Enterprises in Alberta. I hate to throw them away. I have had a number of ideas on how to seal them, from dipping in melted wax to removing the hardboard and reinstalling new sides. (may be cheaper or more cost effiecient to just build new ones). Any ideas others may have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. -- Christopher Carrigan Arras, BC V0C 1B0 carrigan@mac.com carrigan@pris.bc.ca http://www.pris.bc.ca/cjvc ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:44:34 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Esad Cancar Subject: Re: Pollen Traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Ken! I am looking for polen traps too. Until now i found many tips. But, the most intresting is one kind polen traps hidden in botom board. A beekeeper made it after 25 years of beekeeping proficiency. This week, I hope, I`ll visit him & take picture. If you found any sutible, please, send me drawing or picture or web address. All inovation is wellcome. Best regards! Esad Bosnia & Herzegowina ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 08:39:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "john f. mesinger" Subject: Re: re Moving Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Among all of the bees I have tried, one time they were Midnite hybrids - known to be gentle [but susceptible to Nosema]. While installing, seven bees got in my bonnet. All flocked to the veil to get out. None stung. If I could only remember how I smelled to them that day, I would duplicate it with more assertive bees. John F. Mesinger jfm6f@unix.mail.virginia.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 07:32:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Matthew W." Subject: Re: feral comb above an excluder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What Dan says about the tossing the brood/feral comb above an excluder works but I would caution the beekeeper on timely removal of the super with comb. You must remove the comb immediately after the last brood hatches or the bees will waste alot of energy building every inch of that box with wax and nectar. If the queen squeezes through the excluder you'll have a REALLY tough time sending her down onto your foundation below. I have 2 or 3 hives that have 'beaten me' and kept a box or two of feral comb for years because I haven't convinced the queen to lay onto my frames...yet. Treating for varroa is really a problem in those hives among other issues. If you're certain the queen is below the excluder (check for 1-day old eggs) you could try a method I've experimented with: Move your comb higher and higher above the excluder and queen/newfoundation using empty deeps (no frames) as spacers. Bees will eventually rob out the feral comb above since it is too far away from the broodnest. Sometimes you'll end up with 3 deeps between comb and queen. This only works when the weather is warm and you have to be certain there's no cracks nor upper entrance for outside robbers to visit. A few years ago when I only had 15-20 hives I made the practice of placing feral comb on the perch of hives for robbing and was cautioned against this practice by several beekeepers. I didn't see the threat so continued with this practice. Now I understand robbing a bit better and would strongly caution anyone against placing comb on the front of their hives. Robbing can be a tough habit to break once they get started. You might end up fighting with bees instead of managing all summer long. Matthew Westall dan hendricks wrote: > I have done this several times and it works just fine. > In three weeks all the brood will have hatched and the wall comb can > be > Dan > -- // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:11:25 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: feral comb above an excluder Comments: cc: beesting@qwest.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/8/01 9:33:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, beesting@QWEST.NET writes: <> There is a simple solution that *usually* works. In the spring (or at least during a flow), put a box of comb under the upside-down box of wild comb. As soon as you find brood in the lower box, smoke the upper to increase the odds that the queen is run down, and get an excluder in there. Queens are reluctant to lay in upside-down comb. Of course the bees will eventually tear down the comb to the midrib and build it right-side up, but the convenience of the comb just below her brood area will usually get her down quickly. <> Agreed. I have about come to the point of never using robbing as a method, simply because so many bees die when it happens, all with their honey stomachs full, of course. This waste is not the only reason, but it is enough to make me very reluctant to allow robbing at all. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 08:53:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Pollen Traps In-Reply-To: <200101081315.IAA17773@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I am looking for pollen traps too. Until now I found many tips. But, the most > ... If you found any suitable, please, send me drawing or picture or web > address. All innovation is welcome. BeeGadgets@egroups.com is a low volume, open list where pictures of bee-related gizmos and gadgets can be sent with messages or placed in the files by members. (BEE-L only accepts text messages). To subscribe to BeeGadgets, sent email to BeeGadgets-subscribe@onelist.com allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:06:27 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: speculation Greetings! Recently we have had our discussions described as pedantic and speculative. pedantic Characterized by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for book learning and formal rules. speculation 1. a. Contemplation or consideration of a subject; meditation; contemplation of a profound nature. b. A conclusion, an opinion, or a theory reached by conjecture. c. Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition. Sometimes going to the book is instructive. The term speculate has been eroded over the years to mean "wooly thinking", but formerly it described the true nature of human thought, which was an intelligent looking into a problem -- precisely the one thing that humans (and not machines) are capable of doing. If we don't do the thinking, we must depend on the conclusions of others, who may be engaged in the other kind of speculation: 2. Engagement in risky business transactions on the chance of quick or considerable profit. Peter Borst Ithaca NY USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:21:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: Pollen Traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken Coyle wrote: > I am looking for plans on the net for building a pollen trap, can any > one help? I know there are different styles, what are the pros and cons > of each.-- We've used variants of the OAC (Ontario Agricultural College) trap here in Tucson, Arizona for decades, and have always been satisfied with it. I believe there are plans online (?). As for cons, if you are in rainy areas, a screen bottom in the pollen tray is a good idea. Try to avoid pollen trays that pull out from the hive front - the bees don't like that. Side trays are workable, but rear access trays will allow the hives to be closer together, and generally work out better. The disadvantage of the full-size traps is that the whole hive has to be taken apart for the initial installation, but after that, there are ways to slide out or tip up the screen, and the trap body stays in place - the metal screen can also help keep mice out. The actual pollen-removal screen that the bees crawl through is usually metal, either hardware cloth (wire mesh) or punched holes in metal sheets (our favorite). Dead bee traps are incorporated in the trap body sometimes, and allow monitoring of mortality levels in the hive, and also chalkbrood "mummies". Some traps (OAC,) have built-in drone escapes - these usually work out fine, and keep dead drones from building up on the bottomboard. There are also "external" traps, which attach to the main entrance or at a gap between boxes above the entrance. They are not usually as efficient, and tend to be fragile. ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards "Feral Bee Tracker and AHB Identifier" Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona 85719 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:52:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: OAC Pollen Trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Esad Cancar wrote: > If you found any suitable, please, send me drawing or picture or web > address. All inovation is wellcome. > Best regards! > Esad > Bosnia & Herzegowina There are three photos at http://www.fao.org/docrep/w0076e/w0076e10.htm (near the bottom of the page). ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona 85719 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:53:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Bozard, Charles Emmett (Mick)" Subject: Any Arizona Beekeepers ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi everybody, i will be visiting my sister in Sierra Vista, Arizona and was wondering anybody out there bee interested in letting us visit your apiary ? thanks mick bozard in soth carolina ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:33:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: OAC Pollen Trap It is interesting that although there are some photographs of parts of pollen traps, and there are discussions and descriptions of pollen traps and their use on the Internet, I have not ever seen any "plans" to build a pollen trap anywhere I have looked. I have not looked recently, but the last time I looked I could not find any. I think we currently have an unmet need here. Layne Westover College Station, Texas, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 22:38:01 +0100 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home sweet home Subject: Re: OAC Pollen Trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Musashi wrote: > ..........................nd descriptions of pollen traps and their > use on the Internet, I have not ever seen any "plans" to build a pollen trap > anywhere I have looked. so.. you didnot find..... http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/ChiliPolVal.html or http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/Chili8.html regards, Jan -- Jan Tempelman Kerkstraat 53 NL 7471 AG Goor xx.31.(0)547.275788 mobile: 06 10719917 -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:36:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: Re: Requesting Advice on Hygienic Queens Comments: To: allend@INTERNODE.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Allen, Here is a site with some mode of action info on imidacloprid: ipmworld.umn.edu/chapters/bloomq.htm Regards Adony Adony Melathopoulos Apiculture Biotechnologist Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada Beaverlodge Research Farm Box CP 29 Beaverlodge, Alberta CANADA T0H 0C0 T +1 780 354 5130 F +1 780 354 8171 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 21:14:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael W Stoops Subject: Re: AFB - GM crop connection possible Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >From: Blane White > yes the resistance was first documented in areas > where roundup-ready soybeans were planted. QUESTION: Which came first, the round-up ready soybeans or the AFB resistant strain? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 08:43:29 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: resistant AFB Long-term exposure to Terramycin or improper dosage levels apparently created the bacterial resistance. ... patties did provide the means by which the antibiotic could be kept in the hive for many weeks or longer. It has been reported that some beekeepers kept patties inside their colonies for several months to a year. Leaving treatment materials in a hive longer than the label recommends is not a good idea since it represents a violation of the label and can contribute to the development of bacterial resistance to Terramycin Applying Terramycin in a powdered sugar mix has always been a convenient method of administering the antibiotic. However, when the treatment schedule is erratic and the bees consume all of the antibiotic before the brood nest has been properly cleaned, the amount of AFB cycles up and down, but the disease is never well-controlled. This type of imprecise treatment along with low doses or outdated Terramycin probably contributed to the development of resistance in P. larvae. excerpt from article by Dr. Bill Wilson, in Bee Culture, Oct 2000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:10:57 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: OAC Pollen Trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All I do not know what OAC stands for. Pollen trapping has been part of my routine for 18/19 years. I have no drawings available yet, but it is my intention to draw up my system and put it on my website. I will briefly outline it... My floors have a mesh panel in them (originally a travel screen) but more recently used for varroa monitoring with a slide in tray. To use them for pollen collecting...the tray is replaced by a drawer with fine nylon mesh as a bottom panel. I then place a "stripping screen" between the brood box and the floor. The stripper is built like an inner cover but with a plastic pollen stripper insert that has star shaped holes in it. This insert is above the centre of the mesh that is in the floor. I use two porter escapes for bee and drone exit. I make no provision for drone return...They will find residence in other colonies. In use the bees enter through the normal entrance but can only get to the colony by crawling through the star shaped holes. the stripped pellets of pollen fall through the mesh to the drawer below. The fine nylon mesh bottom to the drawer gives enough ventillation to stop the pollen going mouldy. When I have drawn this all up I will post it on "Bee Gadgets" List. Regards Dave Cushman ----- Original Message ----- From: Musashi > I could not find any. I think we currently have an unmet need here. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:25:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Wave Goodbye to Tucson BeeLab MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tuesday, Jan. 9, 2001 The Tucson Bee Lab staff was informed this morning that the entire Tucson bee research program will be tranferred to Weslaco, Texas. Last working day in Tucson will be March 23, 2001. All permanent employees ( 4 scientists, 2 technicians ) are being given directed transfers to Weslaco, or separation by retirement or resignation. This brings the almost fifty-year history of the Tucson Lab to an end. -- John ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Agricultural Research Service - USDA Tucson, Arizona 85719 http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/edwards.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:03:05 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Resistant AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I recall reading an article in either the American Bee Journal or Bee = Culture many years ago about AFB in Russia becoming resistant to = Oxytetracycline hydrochloride. Have not been able to find it since. = Maybe the editors of these journals can help us out with the reference = as I know they are both Bee-ler's. I am sure this pre-dated the Argentinean situation. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 21:12:53 -0000 Reply-To: "kidd@uni-hohenheim.de" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew Kidd Subject: Nicaragua Does anyone know of any contacts and information related to beekeeping or bee product marketing in (or from) Nicaragua? We are doing a study of poverty, vulnerability and extension and will use some topics (one of them bee products) to look at the issue through. Fieldwork will be in Vietnam, Uganda and Nicaragua. We have some info in Vietnam and Uganda, but nothing on Nicaragua. Indeed if someone has info or contacts on the other two countries, they would also be welcome. Thanks. Andy Kidd. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 13:16:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: OAC Pollen Trap I believe that OAC means "Ontario Agricultural College" where the design for this particular pollen trap was developed. I did a search today on the Web and discovered some plans for the OAC Pollen Trap at the following address: http://www.ag.uiuc.edu/~vista/html_pubs/BEEKEEP/CHAPT2/2-20.gif There is also text in Chapter 2 which explain the construction and operation. This information is helpful, as are the plans in Jan Tempelman's web site which he referred to yesterday. Andy Nachbaur's web site has an "online publication" called "Golden Harvest" that explains all about how pollen traps can be constructed and used, but has no plans per se. After having made my own pollen trap based on my readings and on plans I found in one of Eva Crane's books (the big one, I forget the title), and used it for a year (and it worked O.K.), I ordered a trap from Stauffer's Beehives and Pollen Traps that was recommended to me as the best pollen trap available on the market. Having received that trap and examined it closely, I concur that it is probably the best designed pollen trap I have ever seen and I look forward to using it this coming season. You can get the address to Stauffer's by doing a search in the BEE-L archives. I understand, though that Paul Martin (I believe is the proprietor's name) does not have a telephone and turnaround time can be slow. I hope this information is helpful. I didn't list all the web sites to which I referred above, but they can be easily found by searching the BEE-L archives at http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l Layne Westover College Station, Texas, U.S.A. (Stauffer's is in Pennsylvania, Port Trevorton, I believe) p.s. there was sure a dearth of information available on the web the last time I looked, and there's more now, but even more would be helpful if beekeepers are willing to share their ideas and plans in this area. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:21:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Coleene E. Davidson" Subject: RFD TV Programming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, There is a new network available on the Satellite TV system I use. It = is called RFD TV and is based in Texas. The programming is aimed at = agruculture and rural living. While watching, the program manager = requested suggestions for future programming. I sent and e-mail = suggesting Beekeeping programming-citing current issues affecting = beekeepers nation wide. The reply from him was: "If you are aware of any programming available on this subject please = forward to my attention, and we will air it ASAP." Patrick Gottsch RFDPATRICK@aol.com Although I am sure the viewing audience is small, I beleive it is a = promotional opportunity. Does anyone have any suggestions that on taped = programming that would suite this forum. Coleene Davidson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:16:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: Wave Goodbye to Tucson BeeLab MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've had a request for the lab phone number, in case you want to talk to Dr. Erickson about the implications of this closure. (520) 670-6380 Eric's extension is 104 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:31:02 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Hamilton Subject: Queen Rearing and Master Beekeeping Sessions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Allan .. for you AFB resistance breeding project This year they are in Nebraska at the Mead, NE bee lab. Marla Spivak will do a Queen Rearing Workshop from June 27-28 8am - 6pm Marion Ellis and others will do a Master Beekeeping Workshop June 28-30 from 8am - 7pm if your new here we also have Beginning Beekeeping in Kearney, NE Feb 20 & 22 Beginning Beekeeping in Omaha, NE March 5 & 7 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 05:10:39 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Stauffer's pollen traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have been using several Stauffer's traps for many years and am delighted with them. You used to be able to special order ones with a single round-hole punched plate stripper instead of two 5 per inch screens in series but they are no longer available. John Innanuzzi (sp?) reported he had sampled all avaiable traps and considered these the best. Their principal superiority (I think) is 10 escape cones and forager access through slots which extend across the front and both sides. I have found delivery by mail to be reasonably prompt. I can't supply the mailing address because circumstances have caused me to be spending the winter in Guam instead of in my home in Seattle. Sigh. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:59:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: RFD TV Programming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are some excellent beekeeping tapes available that, with the permission or payment to the author, would be perfect. I like The Honey Harvest. There are also a lot of How To tapes that show up in Bee Culture, ABJ and other pubs that the authors might want to get more exposure. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:55:54 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Fox Subject: demaree splits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit need info. on which old issue of ABJ had article & illustrations on demaree splits. can anyone help? thanks, frank fox ffox@genesco.com >>> Musashi 01/09 1:16 PM >>> I believe that OAC means "Ontario Agricultural College" where the design for this particular pollen trap was developed. I did a search today on the Web and discovered some plans for the OAC Pollen Trap at the following address: http://www.ag.uiuc.edu/~vista/html_pubs/BEEKEEP/CHAPT2/2-20.gif There is also text in Chapter 2 which explain the construction and operation. This information is helpful, as are the plans in Jan Tempelman's web site which he referred to yesterday. Andy Nachbaur's web site has an "online publication" called "Golden Harvest" that explains all about how pollen traps can be constructed and used, but has no plans per se. After having made my own pollen trap based on my readings and on plans I found in one of Eva Crane's books (the big one, I forget the title), and used it for a year (and it worked O.K.), I ordered a trap from Stauffer's Beehives and Pollen Traps that was recommended to me as the best pollen trap available on the market. Having received that trap and examined it closely, I concur that it is probably the best designed pollen trap I have ever seen and I look forward to using it this coming season. You can get the address to Stauffer's by doing a search in the BEE-L archives. I understand, though that Paul Martin (I believe is the proprietor's name) does not have a telephone and turnaround time can be slow. I hope this information is helpful. I didn't list all the web sites to which I referred above, but they can be easily found by searching the BEE-L archives at http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l Layne Westover College Station, Texas, U.S.A. (Stauffer's is in Pennsylvania, Port Trevorton, I believe) p.s. there was sure a dearth of information available on the web the last time I looked, and there's more now, but even more would be helpful if beekeepers are willing to share their ideas and plans in this area. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:54:38 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Fox Subject: demaree splits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit several yrs. ago came across article on demaree splits & cannot find it in my magazine library. i THINK it was an issue of ABJ. can anyone help? it was a pretty good one & included visual aids as well as a detailed description (demaree for dummies!). can anyone point me in the right direction? i have 7 yrs.' worth of back issues. i am just not seeing the article. thank you, frank fox nashville, tn ffox@genesco.com >>> Dave Cushman 01/09 9:10 AM >>> Hi All I do not know what OAC stands for. Pollen trapping has been part of my routine for 18/19 years. I have no drawings available yet, but it is my intention to draw up my system and put it on my website. I will briefly outline it... My floors have a mesh panel in them (originally a travel screen) but more recently used for varroa monitoring with a slide in tray. To use them for pollen collecting...the tray is replaced by a drawer with fine nylon mesh as a bottom panel. I then place a "stripping screen" between the brood box and the floor. The stripper is built like an inner cover but with a plastic pollen stripper insert that has star shaped holes in it. This insert is above the centre of the mesh that is in the floor. I use two porter escapes for bee and drone exit. I make no provision for drone return...They will find residence in other colonies. In use the bees enter through the normal entrance but can only get to the colony by crawling through the star shaped holes. the stripped pellets of pollen fall through the mesh to the drawer below. The fine nylon mesh bottom to the drawer gives enough ventillation to stop the pollen going mouldy. When I have drawn this all up I will post it on "Bee Gadgets" List. Regards Dave Cushman ----- Original Message ----- From: Musashi > I could not find any. I think we currently have an unmet need here. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:03:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: NW MI Horticultural Research Station Subject: Imidacloprid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed This announcement came into our office today: Imidacloprid, a Gustafson Insecticide - EPA Announces Receipt of a Gustafson Pesticide Petition Requesting that the Agency Establish Tolerances for Residues in or on the raw agricultural commodities: corn, field fodder; corn, field forage; and corn, field grain - Comments on the petition are due to EPA by February 5 - EPA Contact: Kerry Leifer, Registration Division, Office of Pesticide Programs at 703 308 8811; e-mail: leifer.kerry@epa.gov - EPA January 5 Federal Register: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=2001_register&docid=01-370-filed Alison Heins, Technician NW Michigan Horticultural Research Station 6686 S. Center Hwy, C.R. 633 Traverse City, MI 49684 Phone: 231/946-1510 Fax: 231/946-1404 email: nwmihort@msue.msu.edu Check the Station's web site at: http://www.maes.msu.edu/nwmihort ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:21:00 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Weight of Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was looking for the rule of thumb for how many bees per pound in package bees. I can't find it in my notes or in the Bee List archives. Can anyone help here? Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:16:13 +0100 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home sweet home Subject: Re: Stauffer's pollen traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dan hendricks wrote: > ......been using several Stauffer's traps....... Can some point my in that direction?????? regards, -- Jan Jan Tempelman Kerkstraat 53 NL 7471 AG Goor xx.31.(0)547.275788 mobile: 06 10719917 -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:38:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Malcolm (Tom) Sanford" Subject: Any help for Kazakhstan? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:05:36 -0500 To: "Jill D. Wright" From: "Dr. Malcolm (Tom) Sanford" Subject: Re: Beekeeping in Kazakhstan Cc: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDUs In-Reply-To: <001b01c07ab4$02029700$2e201f0c@sterrett0018> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Jill, Don't really know where to start. There are several Internet sites that feature international information: http://www.beekeeping.com/apiservices/index_us.htm http://www.beekeeping.com/bees-for-development/bees_and_development.htm http://www.apiconsult.com/index.html concentrates on Africa http://www.cf.ac.uk/ibra/ As for donations, you can try: http://bee.airoot.com/beeculture/ http://www.dadant.com/ http://www.beekeeping.com/thomas/index_us.htm Although internatinal expertise is important, most necessary will be finding beekeepers in the region who are successful and begin by doing what they are doing. I am sending this to the bee-l discussion list. Perhaps there is someone there who can help you. I am asking my colleagues on the list to communicate directly with Ms. Wright at sterrett@turbosurf.net Tom Sanford At 10:18 PM 1/9/01 -0500, you wrote: Dear Dr. Sanford, I have found your articles in Bee Culture to be very helpful. I have a very unique situation that I would appreciate your advise about. My family has some dear friends who are Christian missionaries to the Uighur people of Kazakhstan. They have begged my father and me for the last 2 years now to assist them by coming over for a short term mission trip to help a couple of the new believers there establish beekeeping as a home industry or small business. They are continually looking for opportunities to help the people learn to be self supportive and productive. This seems to be a difficult transition from relying on their former Communist government for jobs. They would like us to come this spring. I have a million questions before we can make a decision. They continue to assure me that they are not looking for expertise, just a bit of experience and the desire to be used of God. My understanding is that Kazakhstan is a former soviet republic that is mostly Muslim. Their location is near China at the same approximate latitude as the Great Lakes. Economic hardships are severe there and most of the merchandising is done at outdoor markets. The most common languages are Uighur, Russian and Kazakh. Some also speak Uzbek, Kirghiz, and Turkish. Gratefully, there will be interpreters available. We need to learn much more about the market in the Almaty, Kazakhstan area for bee products; prevalence of bee diseases; climate and foliage; local availability versus shipping involved to purchase bees, instructional material, supplies and equipment. It would be awful to start them on something that would be impossible to sustain. Would you have any advise on how to go about such a project? Where do we begin to find the information we need? Could you recommend anyone who has international beekeeping experience? Do you think any US companies would be willing to donate supplies for us to ship in advance? Perhaps you know some contacts that would be helpful. Would you be willing to be an email consultant if we do get over there and need some advise? Thanks for your help, Jill Wright, 6196 W US RT 224 FINDLAY, OH 45840 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:58:01 -0500 Reply-To: "Keith B. Forsyth" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Keith B. Forsyth" Subject: Re: Weight of Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: About 4000 per pound in weight. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:02:41 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Translation of French Agriculture Minister's position regarding "Gaucho" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As released by the Press Office of the French Minister of Agriculture: Jean GLAVANY received the beekeepers representatives - Paris, 09/01/2001 Jean GLAVANY, Minister of Agriculture and of Fisheries received on Tuesday 9th. January 2001 the representatives of the Coordination des Apiculteurs de France, as well as the representatives from the Federation Nationale des Syndicats d'Exploitants Agricoles and the Confédération paysanne (Farmers Unions). It was to state the position relating to the insecticide "Gaucho". Conforming to the Principle of Precaution, the use of this product on sunflower seed was subjected in January 1999 to a suspension in use for two years, until the results of studies defined the effects on honey bee populations. The Commission of Investigation into the toxicity of anti parasitic products used in agriculture found during the meeting of 13/12/2000 that the collection of assembled data did not allow for the formal and exclusive incrimination of sunflower seeds treated by the preparation "Gaucho", nor did it conclude in the absence of risk for bees. Before taking a new decision, the Minister has listened to the arguments put forward by the beekeepers who understandably wish to preserve the health and productivity of their hives. Jean GLAVANYrecalled that all decisions that may have an impact on health or the environment should be object to a profound risk evaluation. "If one has doubts, the Principle of Precaution should be applied. I shall ensure that that I have all the scientific, technical and legal guarantees before pronouncing on "Gaucho" as on all other pesticide products susceptible of having an impact on bees and other pollinating insects" declared the Minister on leaving the interview which took place in a cordial atmosphere. A decision will be taken, after advice from the Committee of Authorisation who shall meet on the subject on the 11th. January 2001, and after consultation with BAYER (product manufacturer) and the seed merchants. This is an un-official translation and should be taken as such. Peter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:40:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew olmstead Subject: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm thinking of getting some carniolans this spring and was = woundering what other beekeepers think of them? I now have 6 hives of = italians and have done well with them. Thanks , Matt ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:07:57 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lindahl, Larry AGF:EX" Subject: Apitheripy and Migraine Headaches MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT A friend of mine was asking if there was any apitherpy method that would relieve or cure migraine headaches? Is there any one on the list with experience in this regard? You may E-mail me directly or put it on the list. My E-mail address larry.lindahl@gems8.gov.bc.ca Cheers !! Larry ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:01:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: keastman Subject: Stauffers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The address in 1995 was Stauffer's Beehives Superior Pollen Traps RD 1 Box 489 Port Trevorton, PA 17864 I have one of the Stouffer's traps and it works well. It is very similar to the "Sundance" pollen trap by Ross Rounds. They both perform very much the same. I have one of each and have had good success with both of them. Ken Eastman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:27:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Burch Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Matt........ I have several hives each of the Italians, Starline, and Carniolans here in Western North Carolina.......... All three done real good last year but I did notice the Carniolans did not produce quite as much as the other two..... My Uncle in South Louisiana changed all his hives to Carniolans and he is very happy with the results....... It might depend on where you live as to how well the Carniolans do, someone else might have more information on that part....... Good luck this year Paul ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:34:59 -0500 Reply-To: beeman@kingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kent stienburg Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like them.:-) Kent ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:39:43 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: AFB resistance to Terramycin "Crisco patties with Terramycin are no longer recommended for use against American Foul Brood (AFB), European Foul Brood, and Tracheal mites. Please don't use this treatment to avoid development of resistance of AFB to terramycin. To date, we have not found AFB resistance to Terramycin in Ontario." from 2000 Ontario Recommendations for Honey Bee Disease Control http://www.ontariobee.com/disease.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:39:54 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: resistant AFB "Given the present regulatory climate concerning antibiotic use, the chances of developing alternative legal treatments for foulbrood are dicey at best. Fortunately, there are alternatives. ... Dr. Marla Spivak at the University of Minnesota asks beekeepers to consider investing in new foundation and hygienic queens rather than antibiotics. There may be greater payoffs in end, she says, resulting in healthier bees, and this can provide a good way to exit the chemical treadmill. Thus, she concludes, ... the last thing we need are more antibiotics for bees" -- excerpt from article by Tom Sanford, in Apis, Dec 2000 This is what many of us want: disease resistant stock. However, there are serious problems with such a scenario -- number one being supercedure. From my view, today's commercially produced queens are rapidly superceded, some within weeks or months of purchase. And for the beekeeper who raises his own queens in order to minimize supercedure, there arises the problem of lack of control over the drone line. Regular queens can cost US $10.00 and undoubtedly special lines will cost more. Can we afford to requeen every hive every year at that price -- to say nothing of the time and effort involved? No wonder beekeepers -- like other agriculturists -- want to be able to use antibiotics. There is no reason that the bee industry should be singled out and prevented from having access to a variety of antibiotics, just as we now have (in the US) at least three chemicals to use against mites (apistan, formic acid, coumaphos). "There is no registered treatment [in Canada] that will kill the resistant AFB. Beekeepers are faced with burning thousands of hives, millions of dollars in bees and equipment and hundreds of millions of dollars in lost pollination potential. Together with low honey prices this crisis may cause some beekeepers to consider bankruptcy, and many will give up keeping bees. It is a huge problem and one that will without doubt spread to other regions." -- excerpt from "American Foul Brood is Back" by Heather Clay, in Hive Notes, Nov 2000 posted by Peter Borst Ithaca NY USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:32:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Drones & Pollen Hello All, Can beekeepers in the Shreveport,Louisiana area tell me when they start getting spring tree pollen and also when they start seeing the first drones raised in their hives. I realize this varies from year to year so I am only looking for a *normal year* type answer. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:04:39 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Analysis of Apistan/Bayvarol induced fallen varroa Comments: To: IrishBeekeeping@listbot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All The Varroa Calculator devised by MAFF in the UK uses a multiplier to convert the number of naturally fallen varroa mites daily into an approximation of the number of mites in the hive. The value of the multiplier varies with the time of the year. I was wondering about the following: Does anybody know of any mathematical relationship between the number of mites which will fall as the result of the insertion for diagnosis of Apistan/Bayvarol strips, and the total number of mites in the hive? I ask this question for the following reason. Assume that I place Apistan or Bayvarol strips into a hive for diagnosis say in mid March (within 6 weeks of supering here in Dublin). If it were possible to work out the level of infestation from the number of fallen mites, I could then possibly use an IPM approach (entrapment using drone brood, Open Mesh Floor, etc), if the number were small and super the hive as normal. On the other hand if it were a severe infestation I could use Apistan/Bayvarol and delay supering the hive. Any comments most welcome. Sincerely Tom Barrett ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:08:28 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony N Morgan Organization: Sor-Trondelag College, Division of Electronic Engineering Subject: Biological control of foulbrood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Via Erik Osterlund in the BiologicalBeekeeping list: http://www.cf.ac.uk/biosi/research/biodiversity/staff/bnd.html Scroll down the page and read the research project summaries. Among others: "Development of a biological control method for the prevention and /or treatment of foulbrood in honey bees" -- Anthony N Morgan, Fřrsteamanuensis Institutt for Elektroteknikk Hřgskolen i Sřr-Trřndelag N-7005 Trondheim, Norway anthony@iet.hist.no Tlf. 73 55 96 04 Fax. 73 55 95 81 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 06:33:39 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: ARNOLD JONES Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii An interesting notion. I have five buckfast and five of the russian. The russian out produce the buckfast by several pounds. Same area, same water source, same nectar source. Has anyone written anything on preference of flowers with the various bee strains? Are there any climate or terrain corralations for the various strains. thank-you arnold jones ===== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:01:13 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: Small Bee Suit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a friend that has been hanging around for about a year since I put a hive of bees in his Dad's garden. He helps me with making supers & frames & stuff. He paints them all. He's 11 years old. He wants to get involved with the bees this spring and borrows all my bee books. I have an extra veil but it doesn't fit very well and his mother is concerned. She doesn't want to allow him to do this but I have convinced her that if I can get a bee suit or jacket, something with a veil or hood built on, that it will be all right. Well, these people don't have much and cannot afford to invest in this venture. Sooo...here's my plea. Does anyone out there have a used suit that has been out grown and are willing to part with at a minimal price? I hope someone has one laying around they don't use. If you can help, I'm at RASpiek@aol.com Richard Spiekhout South Central, Ky. USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:54:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: establishing hygenic stock Comments: To: john.gates@gems9.gov.bc.ca, alexnanc@isn.net, peterborst@persianarts.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Peter and Bee-L Adony Melathopoulos Apiculture Biotechnologist Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada Beaverlodge Research Farm Box CP 29 Beaverlodge, Alberta CANADA T0H 0C0 T +1 780 354 5130 F +1 780 354 8171 >>> Peter Borst 01/11 12:39 AM This is what many of us want: disease resistant stock. However, there are serious problems with such a scenario -- number one being supercedure. From my view, today's commercially produced queens are rapidly superceded, some within weeks or months of purchase. And for the beekeeper who raises his own queens in order to minimize supercedure, there arises the problem of lack of control over the drone line.>> A recently published paper address some of the concerns raised by Peter: Palacio, M.A., E. E. Figini, S.R. Ruffinengo, E.M. Rodriguez, M.L. del Hoyo and E. L. Bedascarrasbure. Changes in a population of Apis mellifera L. selected for hygenic behavior and its realation to brood disease tolerance. Apidologie. 31: 471--478. Abstract Honeybee colonies were evaluated for hygenic behavior using a pin-killed assay. Presence and absence of visual symptoms of brood diseases were recorded. Colonies that removed more than 80% of dead brood after 24 hours were selected for queen and drone production and new colonies were evaluated for hygenic behavior. This procedure was repeated yearly from 1992 through 1997.... Colonies were classified as hygenic and non-hygenic and these data were related to the incidence of brood diseases. Total hygenic behavior increased in the population after four years of selection on queens without mating control from 66.25% in 1992 to 84.56% in 1997. Hygenic colonies had a lower frequency of brood diseases when compared to non-hygenic colonies. It suggested that this trait can be used as a selection criterion in queen breeders' apiaries. The study suggests that beekeepers who practice yearly requeening can significatly raise the level of hygenic behavior in their colonies through selection of hygenic breeders and using open mating; that is WITHOUT isolated mating systems or artificial insemination. At the end of the study, after five years of selection, colonies with hygenic stock had significantly lower levels of AFB; unselected stock had 10.1% and selected stock had 1.8%. Admittedly, a requeening program as outlined in the study, is a long term investment, however with the drawbacks from relying on antibiotics, an investment which may prove prudent and wise. The problems with antibiotics are four; a) Resistance to antibiotics is very likely. b) Antibiotics can leave residues in honey and wax, which are illegal in many honey importing countries and can erode public confidence in the purity of hive products. c) The infective spores are unaffected by antibiotics and treatment does not reduce disease inoculum, d) Antibiotics tend to temporarily mask disease symptoms, making assessments of AFB infection among colonies difficult. Ontario, I have heard, is presently producing hygenic bee stocks. For more information visit: http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/crops/facts/info_honeybeequeen.htm Regards Adony ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:36:23 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: huestis Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Matt, My first question is where do you live? How much experience do you have? Their is a difference in management between carniolans and Italian colonies. Just because you have sucess with Italians doesn't mean you can't do the same with another race! Carniolans build up in the spring very rapidly and need in my opinion a little more care than italians. Here is a list of characteristics: 1.Rapid population build up 2.conserve honey stores 3.gentle(as long as they are well breed) 4.overwinter on smaller honey/pollen stores(until brood rearing begins) 5.rob less(they will if you allow it) 6.very white cappings(the best for comb honey in my opinion) 7.not much brace comb or propolis 8.forages well in inclement weather also a little farther 9. swarms if not given enough room 10. dark queen can be hard to find for some people(get her marked) For more info go to http://www.apiphyt.com/carnica/ Part of the joy of being a beekeeper is trying different things. So have a go with carniolans. I would keep them in three deep chambers. Reverse them in the normal way. Make a split with one of those deep boxes, super both as usual and recombine in the fall. This should make for very strong colonies in the spring and help with swarming. Good Luck. Clayton Huestis ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew olmstead To: Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 3:40 PM Subject: Carniolans > I'm thinking of getting some carniolans this spring and was = > woundering what other beekeepers think of them? I now have 6 hives of = > italians and have done well with them. > Thanks , Matt > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:43:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "john f. mesinger" Subject: Re: Carniolans In-Reply-To: <200101110028.TAA18636@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I switched to carniolans three years ago. The so-called Yugos were as bad as the car of that name. Those from Heitkam and Strachan, the Coby strain, have been good. However, you definitely have to change the way you work with them; timing of brood production and space needs differ widely fom Italians. I would suggest you be careful where you get them. Some seem to be crossbred with Caucasians. Some seem to have been bred with a mix of drones other than Carniolan. Two east coast breeders of Coby bees have not worked for me. One is still building up his stock. The other does not respond to inqueries. If Italians work for you - remember the adage: IF IT AIN"T BROKE, DON"T FIX IT. John F. Mesinger jfm6f@unix.mail.virginia.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:11:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CAIR Subject: Question on Northern Virginia beekeeping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hello I am new to beekeeping. I have bees in Northern Virginia and am wondering what I should do this spring and when I should do it. I think I have to re-queen since my bees swarmed alot in their first year and didn't produce much honey. When should I do this and how? I have just one hive now but want to add three this spring. When can I install new nucs for the coming year? What is the best race for my area? Can I try out different races in hives close to each other? When is the primary honey flow and what is the nectar source? I read a lot of bee books etc., but they do not have area-specific information. The "Hive and the Honey Bee" has info but it covers too wide an area. Anything else I should be doing? Medicine, etc. Ibrahim ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:37:33 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Keim Subject: Need to buy Pollen Substitute... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" I need to purchase about 150 pounds of pollen substitute for this spring, but the shipping is killing me for such a miniscule amount. I have tried a couple of supply houses close to me, but neither stock it, and I hate to bother the commercial producers in my area. My apiary is in Northeast Kansas, so southeast Nebraska, western Missouri, and even southwest Iowa would be within the realm of possibility of customer pick-up. Anyone know of distributors in these areas, or have other ideas? Thanks. John Keim Keim Apiaries Fairview, Kansas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:08:09 -0800 Reply-To: mdshepherd@xerces.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Shepherd Subject: State bee protection programs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi folks, I am currently reviewing the EPA's draft Pesticide Registration Notice on= Bee Precautionary Labeling. Her at the Xerces Society, we want to get a= response to the EPA by the Jan 22nd deadline. The draft notice talks of state approved bee protection programs. Can= anyone point me towards some information on these? Which states have them,= where can I get a copy of one? I've looked in the BEE-L archives and found= Tom Theobold's article, but nothing on protection plans. It would be good= to find out a bit more about them since the proposed pesticide labeling= may not be applied where such programs exist. Do the programs provide= better protection to bees than the proposed labeling? What if the= programs, often voluntary, offer less protection? Will the draft labeling= rules apply or be ignored in favor of the lesser standard? Has anyone sent the EPA comments? I would be pleased to see them if you'll= send me a copy. If we all say the same thing, the regulators might listen. Your comments, please! Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. Matthew Shepherd ______________________________________ Matthew Shepherd Director, Pollinator Program and Publications The Xerces Society 4828 SE Hawthorne Blvd, Portland, OR 97215 Tel: 503-232 6639 Fax: 503-233 6794 Email: mdshepherd@xerces.org Website: www.xerces.org ______________________________________ The Xerces Society is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the conservation of invertebrates. ______________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:10:10 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Morris Subject: Re: Question on Northern Virginia beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a new keeper myself, I can say I have learned a lot from Dr. Imiries Pink Pages--online, and the book-The Beekeepers Handbook (3rd edition)-by Dr Diana Sammararo. Tim Morris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:02:00 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark G Spagnolo Subject: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Besides the color, there are other less obvious differences between = Italians and Carniolans. I've worked extensively with both breeds and even spent a couple days = watching Sue Cobey artificially inseminate breeder queens. I even = accompanied her on a drone trapping expedition! We collected traps with = hundreds of big fat drones. Collecting the semen was another story. I = am very glad I wasn't born a drone! Squeeze, pop, and it's all over! In my opinion, even though both breeds will produce honey, the real = difference between these breeds is in how they handle a dearth or the = big dearth, winter. Carniolans will stop rearing brood much more = quickly than Italians. The saying is soming to the effect that "The = Italians made more honey than the Carniolans, but they also ate a lot = more". When I kept bees in the tropics I used only Italians. Now that I keep = bees in Minnesota, I use only Carniolans. =20 You really need to determine how you want to keep bees and then use the = appropriate breed. Mark in Minnesota ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:18:51 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Organization: Oregon VOS Subject: Re: State bee protection programs Comments: To: Matthew Shepherd In-Reply-To: <200101112257.RAA18576@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII It occurs to me that there is about to be a rush to return as much as possible to the States under the guise of "states'" rights. Among other things, Federal expenses are cut leading to tax cuts, etc. However, even though in the past beekeepers stayed put and arguably didn't engage in interstate commerce, that is no longer true. Pollination requires interstate commerce which is one trigger for Federal intervention. It is in the interest of the pesticide (of any kind) producers to move responsibility to the States, fragmenting the responsibility for all kinds of labeling, use, and enforcement which can be brought to bear against them. In addition, even if we ignore interstate/international marketing of honey which it can be argued is normally done by a distribution level at least one step removed from beekeeping, and which is, in relative terms a minor market, the same can't be said of crop production reliant on bees as reliable and manageable pollinators. Therefore, while the State programs are important, for the purposes of holding the line or even beefing up the insect (bee) protection mechanisms including the pesticide use labels, the harm about to be done directly to the bee industry and secondarily to the crop production industry depends on making the argument that both, because of their interstate nature, are properly the responsibility of the Federal Government. In addition, since not all States maintain the same level of bee protection programs, some, evidently not controlling bees at all, it seems to me an argument can be made to the States and the Federal Government, that States having weak programs may find themselves ignored by the pollination industry. Beekeepers may conclude that it is not worth endangering their assets to move them into areas with weak or no regulation. [The usual disclaimer: not qualified to make a legal argument but have, on occasion, read the Constitution.] On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Matthew Shepherd wrote: > I am currently reviewing the EPA's draft Pesticide Registration Notice on= > Bee Precautionary Labeling. Her at the Xerces Society, we want to get a= > response to the EPA by the Jan 22nd deadline. > > The draft notice talks of state approved bee protection programs. Can= > anyone point me towards some information on these? --------------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, Raw Honey | leave our kids a decent place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 02:43:40 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Comments: cc: MelathopoulosA@EM.AGR.CA Adony, you write: >> The problems with antibiotics are four; >> a) Resistance to antibiotics is very likely. This would be far less of a problem if we could rotate two or three substances, like sulfathiazole and streptomycin >> b) Antibiotics can leave residues in honey and wax, which are illegal in many honey importing countries and can erode public confidence in the purity of hive products. Unfortunately, honey already suffers from this. NOFA (Northeast Organic Farmers Assn) won't certify *any* honey as organic and not just because of drugs; they think bees probably pick up pesticides from the crops they visit. Whether it is true or not, *they think this*. I believe most honey these days is sold to manufacturing firms like Nabisco and they certainly don't care about traces of chemicals >> c) The infective spores are unaffected by antibiotics and treatment does not reduce disease inoculum, This is not strictly true. By preventing disease from occurring the overall production of spores is drastically reduced. One rotten AFB hive could infect hundreds of colonies. This is the principal of prevention >> d) Antibiotics tend to temporarily mask disease symptoms, making assessments of AFB infection among colonies difficult. This is quite right and is a serious problem. Once on the antibiotic treadmill, one can't easily get off. By the way, I come from California where AFB was pretty widespread. It was also one of the first states to do away with inspection, with serious consequences ensuing. >> Ontario, I have heard, is presently producing hygenic bee stocks. For more information visit: http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/crops/facts/info_honeybeequeen.htm I have used so called hygienic stock and the difference was not pronounced. Of course, we were trying to reduce mite counts, not AFB, and using resistant stock against mites has been less encouraging. But you don't address the problem of high supercedure. I worked in a commercial queen raising outfit in 1981 (a big name concern in California) and I thought their practices were shoddy. They raised far too many cells under less than ideal conditions, resulting in puny cells. This was not regarded even as a problem! The queens mated under less than ideal conditions, having perhaps one or two flying days and then they were sold. Even if you have good quality stock, it means little if poor queens are raised and shipped. To produce true high quality queens would be very expensive. Even at US $10, that represents a cost of about 25 pounds of honey at today's prices. Thanks for the info. Peter Borst ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:10:34 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Weight of Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 4000/lb was last I remember Hive and the honey bee says 3500 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:11:56 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark G Spagnolo > We collected traps with = > hundreds of big fat drones. Collecting the semen was another story. I = > am very glad I wasn't born a drone! Squeeze, pop, and it's all over! My local Beekeeping Association is finding that many drones are "dry" when trying to collect semen. Can you indicate what percentage of the drones that you observed were "unproductive of semen"? How do you site your drone traps and how are they constructed? Best Regards Dave Cushman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 04:26:13 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/10/01 7:29:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, druid@TOGETHER.NET writes: << I'm thinking of getting some carniolans this spring and was = woundering what other beekeepers think of them? I now have 6 hives of = italians and have done well with them. >> You don't say where you are. Others have given good pointers. I would like to add one. If you are in the deep south... I have found them to be poor at coping with long, hot, dry weather. Remember they were originally a mountain bee, and I think they are better adapted to areas with less extreme summers. Some also depends on your intent and the conditions with which you will use them. Italians will keep larger populations thru the winter (and of course, eat more). This is not a problem it you want to start making packages in March, or if your main flow begins very early. Carnolians are still "waking up," at this point. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 01:17:45 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: A story just for fun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Serious-all-the-time folks are going to hate this post. The setting: The queen in the University of Guam observation hive (which I maintain when I'm here during the winter) had quit laying. The queen in their companion full-sized hive had reduced her rate of egg laying after her second year. The obvious solution to both problems was the move the two year old queen into th OH, where slow laying is an asset, and buy a new queen from Kona for the big hive. In preparation, we inspected the big hive and discovered an empty queen cell with its end open. The bees had beaten us to the requeening. But on the next frame was the marked two year old queen! This was my first encounter with a situation often cited in the literature where a new queen will tolerate the old dowager queen. So I moved a couple of frames of brood with stores and bees into the OH and put BOTH queens in with them, after marking the new queen, of course. I can just imagine explaining this to the kids after having just taught them that a hive has only one queen! Providing that they both coexist in the two frame hive as they did in the ten frame one. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:24:03 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Swarm prevention MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Ibrahim. You can force swarms to self-retrieve by simply putting a queen excluder between the bottom box and the bottom board. Any swarms will be back in the hive within 2 hours after finding they don't have and egg layer with them. If you do this, though, you must go through the hive frame by frame every 10 days to be sure the bees aren't trying to raise new queens. With the QE below, new queens can't get out to mate. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:39:26 -0800 Reply-To: honeyboy@pacbell.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Subject: Stauffer pollen traps MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi, I too, have purchased Stauffer pollen traps and think they are the best. I wrote for information as to whether he is still in business 2 months ago and have still not heard from him. I gave up and bought a few Sundance traps for about 2x the price. Arrrrr..... Mason Harris KarinaBee Apiaries Burlingame, CA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:28:40 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: IBList Analysis of Apistan/Bayvarol induced fallen varroa Comments: To: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Comments: cc: IrishBeekeeping@listbot.com In-Reply-To: <200101111104.LAA59120@mail.iol.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200101111104.LAA59120@mail.iol.ie>, Computer Software Solutions Ltd writes >Does anybody know of any mathematical relationship between the number of >mites which will fall as the result of the insertion for diagnosis of >Apistan/Bayvarol strips, and the total number of mites in the hive? Norman has answered this so here is a small addition. I suggest you use the OMF under all colonies and put a tray under each for a day or two in May and see what you get. Use the multiplier and take it from there. Use any integrated method you wish and monitor again, say, a month later. Adjust the potency of your method(s) to suit the level found. You can monitor the mites for damage and consider breeding from those colonies doing most damage. What do people say about this approach? I haven't tried it yet as I have chickened out and have only used an annual application as one of the herd but it is the logical conclusion to integration, which would have to be on an individualised basis. The critical time would be late in the year when overwhelmed colonies disperse. -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:59:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "john f. mesinger" Subject: Re: Carniolans In-Reply-To: <200101121716.MAA11988@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Re: Carniolans just waking up in March in SC. The three previous winters in central VA were unusually warm. I found brood started on three frames the last week of January in two hives and each of these had 7 frames of brood by March. [Having left them honeybound the second year not realizing they ate so little stores compared to my Italians they were ready to swarm in mid March.] The same first two years, Starlines had not started brood laying the first week of March and had eaten so much more honey, there was no problem of them being honey bound [I sold them that year, and now have 4 carniolan hives educating me.] I do agree that not only state but elevation would be a factor to report when raising questions about "what type of bee". John F. Mesinger jfm6f@unix.mail.virginia.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:12:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: resistance to tetracycline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Could we be looking at very large outbreaks of AFB as antibiotics loose their effectiveness? Is there still a large number of Bacillus larvae spores in our honey? In 1988 Dr. Shiminuki did research on the subject . The American Bee Journal received the manuscript for publication Feb.8,1988 and ran the article in the May issue. I quote from Dr. Shiminuki and D.A. Knox test results. Commercial packer-No. of samples- Detectable levels Bacillus larvae U.S. & Canada - 21 - 21 Turkey - 1 - 1 Beekeeper packer U.S.& Canada - 33 - 10 New Zealand - 2 - 0 infected colony - 1 - 1 Dr. Shiminuki found 33 of the 58 samples contained detectable levels of Bacillus Larvae(A.F.B.). Twenty-one of these samples were honey purchased from supermarket shelves in the U.S. and Canada.. 33 were obtained directly from individual U.S. and Canadian beekeeper/packers; two were from New Zealand; one was from a commercial packer in Turkey; and one was from a colony with American Foulbrood disease. Resistance to terramycin big problem or minor problem? Has Terramycin been masking a serious problem? comments? Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:11:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Wright Subject: Returning to the Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings to all from the American Southwest and thanks to all of those = out there providing informed discussion. Having been exposed to = beekeeping as a family affair during my childhood I am returning to the = hive after settling down with my own family.=20 After spending hours scouring the Bee-L archives I am struck by how = much beekeeping has changed in the last 20 years (to which I am sure the = old-timers will attest). Many new issues have arose such as the spread = of mites, the introduction of the africanized hybrids into America, the = fact that we can all email one another about bee related topics....... I = could go on and on and on. As I attempt to refresh my memories of the practical aspects of = beekeeping from my childhood I find myself struggling with some of these = new and unfamiliar challenges. Though the Bee-L archives have been a = great help, they are far from exhaustive. Of course, the essentials of = beekeeping remain the same. However, I would really benefit from any = recommendations for comprehensive texts on contemporary beekeeping = practice: how and when to treat for what, warning signs of this and = that. I feel most uninformed about exactly how diseases are dealt with = today. Technical refs are not intimidating. Beyond that, I find that beekeepers in my area are not doing anything = to respond to africanized colonies which have been documented in all = counties surrounding mine to the east, south, and west. I was shocked = to one individual routinely picking up swarms under these conditions = without a suit (am I overreacting here?). Any feedback from those = dealing with the AHB issue would be appreciated, particularly those in = my region. Thanks in advance! Scott W. New Mexico ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:59:58 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: TM in patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii People who keep patties with TM on the hive whenever extracating supers are not installed (like me) have to keep their heads down because so many vociferous people are trying to make us feel sinful. One knock on the practice is that the bees do not get enough TM fast enough to preclude undermedicating. Be advised that adding a goodly amount of honey - your own, of course - will cause the bees to consume the patties at a good rate, including those on the top brood box as well as between boxes. I use at least two tablespoons in 1/8# crisco from which I make two patties. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 05:16:55 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: BeeHoo It doesn't get too much more specialized than this. BeeHoo is a Yahoo-esque directory of resources for, you guessed it, beekeepers and bee enthusiasts. The site is not searchable but may be browsed by category and subtopic. These include bees, bee management, hives products, and health, among others. Sites are listed with a brief description, including languages used at the site. BeeHoo has a nice international scope, indexing numerous non-anglophone (mostly European) sites. BeeHoo itself is provided in both English and French. Users may sign up for a free newsletter and submit sites to be included in the directory. BeeHoo http://www.beehoo.com/ Apiculture photography contest - aulaapicola@jet.es, City Government of Azuqueca de Henares The Environment and Culture Council of the Excellency the Azuqueca de Henares City Government, through the municipal apiculture school, announces the following apiculture photography contest, ruled by the following guidelines. PARTICIPANTS: Open to any citizen or legal resident of any country in the world http://www.beehoo.com/news.php3?id=5 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:05:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: TM in patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dan hendricks wrote: > the bees do not get enough TM > fast enough to preclude undermedicating. The problem is that it may be a cause of AFB TM resistance. It is not listed as the way to apply TM to hives. It is easy to do and I did it and even suggested it a couple of years back as a way to combine it with tracheal mite treatment. I also used honey to spur its consumption, since the bees did not take it down very fast. But even then, in many cases the patties were still there after many weeks, so I would remove them since the bees were ready for supering. Another problem is the amount of TM in the patty. If you use the dosage suggested when using powdered sugar and TM on top bars, that is the amount used each time over several feedings. So is this the the level of TM in the patties or is it two, three or more times that? And do the patties remain whole over the brood cycle period or are they consumed too quickly and so the bees are overmedicated? I gave up the crisco/TM/sugar and terrapatties routine because it is not a very exact method of applying TM. I would like to add that it was because it was not in accordance with label instructions, but I cannot put on that mantle of righteousness. For me it was that I could be adding to AFB resistance. And since my first act as a beekeeper ten years ago was to burn the hive I had bought two weeks earlier because of AFB, I am a little sensitive to having that happen to others. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:32:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Pollen Traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have felt guilty for not contributing to this discussion during the past two weeks. We have had some family illness that has taken an inordinate amount of my time. I think I have pretty good information on the design history of today's bottom mount traps that I will share. I will also give you some thoughts on the other traps available. I believe that the OAC trap is close to the improved design bottom trap made by V. Shaparew during the 1970's. Mr. Shaparew was a nuclear scientist who immigrated to Canada from Russia. Mr. Shaparew was a beekeeper and decided that equipment could be considerably improved by incorporating known principles of physics, most particularly having to do with air flow. He designed or re-designed several items of equipment, two of which continue today. Those are the bottom mount pollen trap and the Conical Bee Escape Board. Concerning the pollen trap, Mr. Shaparew's improvements were: 1. One way drone and bee escapes 2. Improved air circulation to reduce the amount of pollen deteriorating or molding in humid conditions 3. Relief of congestion in the pollen stripping area 4. An easy and effective way of turning the trap "on" and "off", without heavy lifting of the brood nest and supers. 5. A system to largely prevent rain water from entering the pollen collection tray. The OAG trap largely or wholly represents Mr. Shaparew's design. After several years of use, beekeepers made modifications (improvements) to Mr. Shaparew's design, which resulted in the traps first offered by Stauffer's and, with further changes, in today's Sundance(tm) trap. There are many changes from the OAG design, some are minor and others significant. In summary, these are: 1. The weak spot of the Shaparew design was the pollen tray, with lacked proper ventilation and was prone to rip when scraped with a hive tool or placed on a jagged rock or branch. The Sundance(tm) trap has a stainless steel screen. In demonstrations, we scrape this, hard, with a hive tool to show that it will not cut or rip. 2. Much improved drone and bee escapes. The escapes cannot be damaged by skunks, falling hive covers, etc. or get clogged by dead drones. 3. A trap cover that prevents almost all hive debris, including dead varroa, from getting into the pollen drawer. 4. Improved design of the stripper area to more evenly spread the stripped pollen across the entire pollen tray, therefore increasing ventilation. I know of three other bottom mount traps offered commercially. As a pollen collector, it is clear to me that these are not made by a beekeeper who collects pollen! Each has major deficiencies involving: 1. Ventilation to prevent pollen deterioration and molding 2. Congestion in the stripper screens that significantly reduce foraging 3. Drone escapes 4. Trap durability/life 5. Hive debris falling into the collected pollen A pollen trap is a tool, and one that every beekeeper should have. Like any good tool, the Sundance(tm) is designed to do the job with high efficiency (while protecting the integrity and health of the hive), and will last a lifetime. Like other tools, similar (but not at all equal) models can be purchased for considerably less, and each is almost certainly worth the money paid, and no more. If measured in years or in pounds of pollen collected, we believe the Sundance(tm) trap is considerably less expensive than those with an initial cost that is 50% lower. The trap sold by Stauffer is excellent. However, as mentioned by others, the wait time is very long. The proprietor is Mennonite, and of a conservative sect. They use horse and buggy, no electricity and no gas or diesel powered farm or wood working equipment. He has a very large, young, family supported solely by the sweat of his brow and perhaps fewer material possessions than any member of this list. If you want to purchase a trap or traps for use in 2002, now is the time to send in an order. However, I think you will find his prices have substantially increased and may not be significantly lower than those for Sundance(tm). I hope so, as it has been clear to me for some time that he was selling them at less than his cost...assuming that a reasonable value was assigned to his time. Several list members have asked for plans, and none have been forthcoming. Perhaps none will be. I have received numerous inquiries concerning whether the Sundance(tm) design can be duplicated for private use, and willingly agree. I suggest that persons so inclined purchase one Sundance(tm) trap, and disassemble it to copy. Although we use glue as well as nails and staples to assemble, the trap will come apart relatively easily of one is careful. Once disassembled, one will discover that the trap has 3 major sub-assemblies, and a total of almost 40 separate parts. To insure accuracy and consistency of manufacture and gain speed, we use over 12 different assembly jigs. We do not have any plans or drawings, as the design has evolved over time. We rely on individual knowledge, and our jigs, to produce a consistent product. With regard to the price of a Sundance(tm) trap...Those of you who decide to make one trap will find that it takes well over 40 hours. If you then decide to make another five traps, and cut all the parts at once, and make up sub-assemblies and jigs, you may get the time down to 40-60 hours for those five traps. Further manufacture will advance the learning curve, and further reduce the time per trap. However, be prepared to be shocked at the material cost, which will not materially decrease as you make more traps at one time. Depending on wood and wire supplies, we cut enough material to make 50-200 traps at one time. We assemble 100 traps at a time, for the simple reason that we do not have storage room for more. That means putting together 300 sub-assemblies and then making those and other parts into the 100 traps. If we made 10 or even 25 traps at a time, at our present price, we would lose money on every one. So, if we are going to keep the price of a trap within reason we have to make and assemble a lot at a time. In order to do that, we have to sell a lot. In order to sell a lot, we have to sell through dealers, who have the catalogs and staff necessary to sell retail. Surprise, in order to sell through dealers they have to make some money! They have to advertise (which we do also), pay for phones and electricity, catalogs, clerks and warehouse people, cartons, etc. All this adds up, and results in today's prices. I don't mind telling you that in 2000 we just broke even on Sundance(tm) traps. I hope we will do better in 2001. But we also put several hundred wonderful tools in the hands of beekeepers. These will last a lifetime, and that makes me feel good. Finally, just a few words on the front-mount traps offered by a few dealers. BEE CAREFUL. You will principally get just what you pay for. At a recent meeting of the Ohio state organization, one beekeeper told me he purchased 25 such traps, and then spent over 100 hours on carpentry to get the traps in decent shape. While every beekeeper should collect some pollen, they are in a Catch-22 when it comes to buying their first trap. They may be tempted to pay less than top price "because I really don't need to collect that much pollen", but don't have enough experience to know what features to look for and what flaws to avoid. Many end up first buying an inexpensive trap, being disillusioned, and then buying a proper trap. In the end they spend more than 150% of what they should have! I hope I have been helpful. Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:10:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: Re: Pollen Traps In-Reply-To: <200101131640.LAA16016@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > in decent shape. While every beekeeper should collect some pollen, they are > in a Catch-22 when it comes to buying their first trap. Hello Lloyd - Can you please share with us why you feel every beekeeper should collect some pollen? Are you referring to collecting pollen for human consumption? I'm one of those that have never embraced the idea that beekeepers _should_ collect pollen to feed back to the bees which I hear is a practice from several sources. I suppose one could collect pollen for personal consumption but I feel great care should be given when doing so so as not to short change the bees immediate need and long term storage for pollen. If one is going to eventually feed the pollen back to the bees, why go through the trouble of collecting it in the first place? Regards, Barry ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:31:51 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Missing Andy... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bee List Members, At the winter slowdown, there is more time for reflection, and one thought often comes back, the thought of Andy Nachbaur, whose passing almost two years ago took a lot of spice out of the Bee List. Opinionated but very intelligent, Andy kept us all on our toes. You didn't have to agree with him to like and respect him for his real caring for the bees, and his vast knowledge from years of experience. Andy was also a pioneer in online apiculture. Andy, It ain't the same without you! Curiously, Andy lived on in cyberspace. His web page, frozen in time, just as he left it, was still online until just a few days ago. He must have prepaid his account for quite a while. Sadly that resource has now disappeared as well. It's like a second death. There were still some resources available there. I tried accessing a copy of the site via Google's cache, but they only have a partial first page. Does anyone else know if any full copies of the site have been preserved? I shoulda, I know, while it was available.... Some of Andy's thoughts and the tributes after his death can still be accessed by searching his name at the Bee List archives search engine at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l Dave Green Janitor, Clerk, and Bottlewasher The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:44:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ham Morton Subject: Re Queening My question is during requeening do you eliminate the host bees in the queen cage or leave them in the cage? Thanks in advance!! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:14:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Pollen Collection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry Birkey, who runs one of the truly great web sites on beekeeping, asks "Can you please share with us why you feel every beekeeper should collect some pollen?" Honeybees more or less collect pollen "as they need it". This is different from nectar collection, where they store enormous quantities for future use. In his great book, The Wisdom of the Hive, Tom Seeley documents that when bees have stored a certain quantity (at the moment, I can't recall what that quantity is) of pollen they "turn off" pollen collection (regardless of availability) and change to nectar collection. Tom documents how this has been measured and duplicated by scientists. They store about a 2-week supply before they "turn off", or decrease levels to what is necessary to replace daily use. (ok, ok, they sometimes plug out with pollen, and that is explainable, but lets not quibble.) How the bees measure the supply of pollen in a hive is fascinating, but I won't get into it right now. Given that bees will not sore a six-month supply of pollen, as they will nectar, all beekeepers should collect some pollen because: 1. At times of the year, pollen dearth's can occur. These will result in cessation or substantial reduction of brood rearing, and may come when beekeepers are trying to expand the brood nest. Feeding pollen patties is a quick easy way to maintain brood rearing. 2. All beekeepers should have at least one nuc on standby in case something unexpected happens to their hives. I have seen it recommended that beekeepers maintain a minimum of one standby nuc, or one per five hives, whichever is more. Many beekeepers fail when establishing nucs, and I believe one of the primary reasons is that they fail to feed the nuc enough pollen. (While all the books say to give nucs at least 2 frames with honey and pollen (or one with honey and one with pollen), when I have inspected hobbyist nucs I almost always find that not enough pollen has been supplied. Pollen cakes are the answer and should almost always be fed to nucs until they start to draw and fill foundation. 3. Most of us do not have to feed honey/syrup to get bees through the winter, as we can leave them with enough stores. However, many hives do not carry enough pollen through the winter, and a pollen feeding in very early spring works wonders! In fact, Tom Seeley feels that incoming pollen is what triggers brood expansion in the spring, and several scientists have documented the enormous beneficial effect of feeding spring pollen, as a matter of course. After some 35 years I continue to learn beekeeping, and one of the most striking of my recent lessons has been how many commercial beekeepers regularly feed pollen or pollen+pollen supplements. (Allen Dick has some great observations on this at his web site.) Many or most commercial beekeepers would not think of getting through a spring without feeding pollen cakes, yet the practice has not been widely suggested to hobbyists and sideliners. (To be fair, Nick Calderone did recently in a Bee Culture article.) I now always feed nucs pollen, and I produce over 100 a year. Last year I also fed to some 40 colonies that I wanted to produce comb honey on, after taking splits, and was very pleased with the results. They produced so much brood that taking substantial splits did not seem to slow them down for early comb honey. So, IMHO all beekeepers should collect pollen for feeding. Then there is the subject of eating and selling pollen. Not selling pollen is leaving money in the streets...but I am tired of typing and that will be for later. Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:09:22 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Re Queening Ham Morton asks "during requeening do you eliminate the host bees in the queen cage or leave them in the cage?" I have done it both ways and it has worked both ways. Some say that there is a hazard that the bees in the hive may accidentally sting the queen to death while trying to kill her attendants. Your mileage may vary depending upon the temperament of the hive. Sometimes very aggressive bees may be more likely to try and kill the workers and possibly the queen when the queen cage is first put in. In a case like that, I might remove the workers first. Mostly I just put the cage in with the attendants still in it, and (although maybe I'm just lucky) I've never had a problem doing that. I've had a successful intro- duction every time as long as I successfully removed or killed the queen that was previously in there. I usually try and leave the hive queenless for 24 hours previous to introducing the new queen because I think the bees are more receptive that way. Results can vary depending on the race and temperament of the bees being requeened. Have fun and best wishes for success. Layne Westover, College Station, Texas, U.S.A. (a small piece of cotton with water in it replenished at least once a day can keep the queen and her attendants alive for some time if waiting on inclement weather or other problems. I never kill the old queen until I have received the new one in the mail and made sure she is in good shape, and then I wait 24 hours before introducing the new queen. I must not be a commercial beekeeper.) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:54:04 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: alacat Subject: Re: Missing Andy... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dave and the list, I too share with you and many others, certainly, the loss of the "Old Drone". I also miss his insights, wry sense of humor and his knowledge and experience. I had bookmarked his web page and looked at it about three ago. It was good to refresh myself on his knowledge. I was surprised to see it was still online and I am really sorry to read it is no longer available for us to learn from. Thanks for letting us know. The Good Book says, "In my Father's house are many mansions..." I suspect Andy might say there are lots of hives too. Nice thought. Lawrence "David L. Green" wrote: Dear Bee List Members Andy, It ain't the same without you! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:26:06 -0800 Reply-To: gregoire@endor.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Ernest J. Gregoire" Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Matt, You did not say where your are going to keep the bees. Deep south, New England, Hawaii? It makes a difference. I live in New England and they are the best bees for this area. Ernie Gregoire. Grist Mill Apiry. Canaan, Nh ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 23:56:42 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Principle of Precaution MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this principle being well used when applied to beekeeping affairs? Debates relating to antibiotic applications polarize from extremes of using them whilst they are still useful to points of view stating that they should not be used at all, through to the opinions of using them sparingly - taking into account the pros. and cons.. In this case and as in many others the application of the "Principle of Precaution" has levels of effect depending on the starting position of the argument. If one starts at the "never should be used" position then the principle means- "beware, don't use.". If the start point is "use with care", the principle means "use but watch what happens.". If the start point is "they should be used when ever possible", then the principle means "use but in an uncontrolled fashion until they are of little or no use.". This principle may be applied to pesticides - but how? - many sides to the argument and therefore starting positions. Those who need to use pesticides to protect their livelihoods (farmers etc.)and those who are possibly affected by non intended damage - bee colonies that are poisoned. The principle is put into operation to protect humans (extensive testing) - I suppose most people will agree with that!, but at what level should it be applied to protect bees - straight away the principle is weakened by economic arguments. Few companies, if any are willing to state that such and such product doesn't damage humans but will at a certain level damage bees, so looking at the overall economic gain bees loose out - tough on you beekeepers. Here instead of precaution use the word risk! Beekeepers present at the moment low risk to agro-chemical manufacturers - we are financially weak and often disparate. The result is the undermining of present day protections that are in place. Difficulties in getting proper toxicological studies underway. Also the great difficulty in bringing to light and getting accepted as fact any problems associated with un-intentional pesticide damage. Should beekeepers continue to accept that they are on the wrong end of risk assessment and start insisting that "the principle of precaution" is applied automatically? AND is held in place until proven safe to remove it - especially when referring to the introduction of pesticides. At the moment it is often the other way around. Instead of the manufacturer proving it is safe, and whilst doing so, having the principle of precaution in place, materials are presented with risk assessment attached, often then approved leaving beekeepers to prove when damage occurs that it is not safe !! Entering the stage is the problem of SUB LETHAL TOXICITY - not often tested for when viewing bees! HOW OR SHOULD WE AS A GROUP ENSURE THAT "THE PRINCIPLE OF PRECAUTION" IS APPLIED TO THIS PROBLEM ? Analytical methods now allow for the detection of highly toxic pesticides at levels where previously no detection was possible, and at these levels sub lethal intoxication disrupts bee colony organization. Previously pesticide manufacturers did not have to take this into account - will they now? It is obviously not in their direct interest to do so. I hope that I am proven incorrect and they start to apply "THE PRINCIPLE OF PRECAUTION". Peter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:44:43 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: Re Queening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Ham & All, Ham wrote: My question is during requeening do you eliminate the host bees in the queen cage or leave them in the cage? I prefer to introduce the queen without attemdents. I order my queens without attendents in a battery box(not car battery). Removing the attendents from a normal introduction cage is not tricky once you get the hang of it. In front of a window works good. After the attendents are all on the window open the window and release the attendents. Don't remove the attendents till you are ready to install the queens and don't leave a queen out of a hive without attendents. I keep queens in a battery box, queen bank(without attendents) or install right away on arrival. NEVER do I let them sit around . Make your nucs up before your queens come. I have installed queens in the rain and with snow on the ground. I wouldn't make nucs up then but I certainly would install queens. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:47:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: workerbee@HONEYROAD.COM Organization: My Beekeeping Homepape: http://www.honeyroad.com Subject: Re: Re Queening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Go into a small, dark room with a window (i use our bathroom, make sure to out the lid down on the toilet if you do!) Release all of the bees out of the cage through the small corked hole. Then you can snag the queen, mark her and put her back in. Open the window and let the attendant fly out. Now you have less chance of speading anything they might be carrying. Allen Banks Honey Road Apiaries Ham Morton wrote: > My question is during requeening do you eliminate the host bees in the > queen cage or leave them in the cage? > > Thanks in advance!! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 03:39:31 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Re: Pollen traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Barry. You asked Lloyd but let me give you an answer which might be different from his. Where I live in Seattle, my bees load up several frames of pollen in excess of what they use (currently and overwinter). I began using traps just to keep that surplus pollen out of my hive. I get from one to two gallons of pollen per year that way! Obviously, that is not your problem or you wouldn't have asked! Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 03:24:15 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Ham. Permit me to make a pitch for a "Thurber Long Cage". This is folded up from 1/8" hardware cloth, 3/8" (outside dimension) thick (be quite precise), about 1 1/2" wide, several inches long. Whittle wood plugs for the ends. Remove the queen from the shipping cage, dispense with the attendants, mark her, and place her in the Long Cage. The key point is that the width fills the space between adjacent drawn combs - NOT foundation - so that aggressive hive bees cannot get to the queen. After making the hive queenless for a day or two (or more) in advance, insert the Long Cage between two adjacent frames, preferably ones with brood. A day later, remove the cage and release the queen onto a frame top bar. (Try hard not to let bees into the cage with her or she may take a long time coming out.) I've been doing this for years and have never had a problem. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 06:57:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Re Queening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Like many who have responded, I have done it both ways and see little difference. One other way to remove the workers is take some wire window screen, roll it into a cylinder about ten or so inches long and big enough to get your arm easily through it. Cover the ends with cloth to extend the cylinder. Big rubber bands or string work fine to hold the cloth over the screen. If you want it permanent, glue it. Then just put the cage in the cylinder, arms in both ends and you can handle the operation no matter where you are. You will look like a scientist/doctor handing hazardous material in a miniature isolation room. And bare handed at that. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 07:46:04 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05100 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:46:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00202 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:48:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141248.HAA00202@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:48:58 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0101B" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 139527 Lines: 2976 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:34:43 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Re: resistance to tetracycline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bonjour from France, Regarding George Imire's comments about G.M.crops etc.. Maybe in his view the best people to investigate are the prof. bee scientists but those scientists that I am in contact with value very much the points of view raised by beekeepers. Often considering it moral support - which they may not be receiving from the establishment. Also letting "real beekeepers teach...... the beehavers...." is more than a touch presumptuous. Many a development has arisen from un-informed individuals - in some quarters it maybe called "brain storming" . A problem with pure research is that it often results in the concerned individuals being so tied up or aloft from the real pressures of hands on reality that they can be floating above or around it. The academic establishment need us as much as we need them - they need our thoughts and comments and we need their results. They are not in contact with the bees in real conditions for most of the time and often do not have the same feel for the bees nor what is happening in a hive. For a researcher a bee's "tremble dance" is a sign of actual intoxication to somebody actually working in the field - who's making the mistake? Keep the comments coming in as it is a sign of discussion that is informing. Regards to all Peter ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 20:16:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Coyle Subject: Pollen Traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for plans on the net for building a pollen trap, can any one help? I know there are different styles, what are the pros and cons of each. Thanking you in advance. -- Ken coyle@golden.net http://home.golden.net/~coyle ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 21:43:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Carrigan Subject: Request for help Fixing leaking wooden frame feeders In-Reply-To: <200012291722.MAA26850@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi, I have a large number of leaking frame feeders. 1/8 inch tempered hardboard sides, glued with I assume is polyurethane glue. They were made quite a few years ago by Blue Heron Enterprises in Alberta. I hate to throw them away. I have had a number of ideas on how to seal them, from dipping in melted wax to removing the hardboard and reinstalling new sides. (may be cheaper or more cost effiecient to just build new ones). Any ideas others may have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. -- Christopher Carrigan Arras, BC V0C 1B0 carrigan@mac.com carrigan@pris.bc.ca http://www.pris.bc.ca/cjvc ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 20:17:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Coyle Subject: Creamed Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I made some creamed honey which turned out fine. However after sitting on the shelf for 2 to 3 weeks it went hard. It was fine up till then. I used the Dyce method, I bought creamed honey from the store and used a 10% starter and after it was done it was stored it at room temperature. -- Ken coyle@golden.net http://home.golden.net/~coyle ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:13:02 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: resistance to tetracycline In-Reply-To: <200101072219.RAA04217@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I think it possible that we have been saved from resistance because we > have used the OTC in syrup solutions which are fairly ineffective. > They would leave a large proportion of non-resistant spores which > would outproduce the (presumably) less efficient organisms with the > superfluous resistance mechanism. When we got the patties which keep > the OTC effective for longer periods, the nonresistant organisms would > be wiped out leaving only the resistant ones to reproduce. This is an interesting interpretation. My understanding has always been that OTC has no effect whatsoever on spores and its only action is in inhibiting vegetative growth. Nonetheless, this appears to be basically the same speculation that has been going around all along. This theory -- and it is only a theory -- makes assumptions that sound plausible, but are AFAIK totally unproven. Widespread acceptance of this story is impeding proper understanding of what is really happening and determining an optimal response in 1.) affected areas, and 2.) non-infected areas. Since it seems no one else has or will undertake this project, today we have initiated contacts to 1.) try to determine if DNA profiles would show if more than one unique episodes of new resistance have occurred, and 2.) if we can gather the necessary samples and get the analysis done. Also: I had promised a long time back when I posted the original question that I would eventually make a post to analyse how OTC works against AFB and whether spores can be generated and have their numbers increase in hives that are being properly and successfully treated with OTC, in light of some research papers that a friend provided to me. I still remember this promise, and will try to get around to it after ABF, but it will take a little careful work. allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:21:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Requesting Advice on Hygienic Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are planning some work this coming year requiring obtaining and/or raising hygienic queens. We plan to try to evaluate this approach, and others, against traditional medication regimes in hives that have some history of AFB. Although we specify 'hygienic', we are aware that what we really want is 'AFB resistant'. We are looking for pointers on costs, methods, suggestions as to stock, open mating vs, AI, etc. Additionally, we are looking for ideas as to how to best get uniformity in hygienic or anti-AFB characteristics, since any individual queen showing a lack of a minimum level of the trait could compromise her hive if this becomes a line of defence. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ Playing Red Rover with AFB ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:28:44 +0800 Reply-To: ilogmria@cav.pworld.net.ph Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Joel F. Magsaysay" Subject: Re: Request for help Fixing leaking wooden frame feeders In-Reply-To: <200101080639.BAA13835@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher, I used to use a lot of wooden frame feeders. They will leak. The cheapest and least bothersome thing to do wil be to dip them in molten paraffin wax. Keep them submerged fo 1 or 2 minutes to allow the hot wax to seep in. If they continue to leak, try a longer dip time. Fashion some tongs as wood equipment will tend to float. Then New Zealanders have a hinged grate which keeps the wood equipment under and frees your hands for other work. It will be good to have a drip tray on which excess wax can drip and flow back into the dip tank. Joel F. Magsaysay ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE FARMS Cavite, Highlands Philippines joel@ilogmaria.com 063 - 46 - 865 - 0018 (home phone) 063 - 917 - 502 - 7538 (Joel's cell phone) 063 - 917 - 477 - 2194 (Voilaine's cell phone) 063 - 912 - 318 - 7517 (Home cell phone) -----Original Message----- From: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology [mailto:BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu]On Behalf Of Christopher Carrigan Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 12:44 PM To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: Request for help Fixing leaking wooden frame feeders Hi, I have a large number of leaking frame feeders. 1/8 inch tempered hardboard sides, glued with I assume is polyurethane glue. They were made quite a few years ago by Blue Heron Enterprises in Alberta. I hate to throw them away. I have had a number of ideas on how to seal them, from dipping in melted wax to removing the hardboard and reinstalling new sides. (may be cheaper or more cost effiecient to just build new ones). Any ideas others may have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. -- Christopher Carrigan Arras, BC V0C 1B0 carrigan@mac.com carrigan@pris.bc.ca http://www.pris.bc.ca/cjvc ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:44:34 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Esad Cancar Subject: Re: Pollen Traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Ken! I am looking for polen traps too. Until now i found many tips. But, the most intresting is one kind polen traps hidden in botom board. A beekeeper made it after 25 years of beekeeping proficiency. This week, I hope, I`ll visit him & take picture. If you found any sutible, please, send me drawing or picture or web address. All inovation is wellcome. Best regards! Esad Bosnia & Herzegowina ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 08:39:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "john f. mesinger" Subject: Re: re Moving Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Among all of the bees I have tried, one time they were Midnite hybrids - known to be gentle [but susceptible to Nosema]. While installing, seven bees got in my bonnet. All flocked to the veil to get out. None stung. If I could only remember how I smelled to them that day, I would duplicate it with more assertive bees. John F. Mesinger jfm6f@unix.mail.virginia.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 07:32:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Matthew W." Subject: Re: feral comb above an excluder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What Dan says about the tossing the brood/feral comb above an excluder works but I would caution the beekeeper on timely removal of the super with comb. You must remove the comb immediately after the last brood hatches or the bees will waste alot of energy building every inch of that box with wax and nectar. If the queen squeezes through the excluder you'll have a REALLY tough time sending her down onto your foundation below. I have 2 or 3 hives that have 'beaten me' and kept a box or two of feral comb for years because I haven't convinced the queen to lay onto my frames...yet. Treating for varroa is really a problem in those hives among other issues. If you're certain the queen is below the excluder (check for 1-day old eggs) you could try a method I've experimented with: Move your comb higher and higher above the excluder and queen/newfoundation using empty deeps (no frames) as spacers. Bees will eventually rob out the feral comb above since it is too far away from the broodnest. Sometimes you'll end up with 3 deeps between comb and queen. This only works when the weather is warm and you have to be certain there's no cracks nor upper entrance for outside robbers to visit. A few years ago when I only had 15-20 hives I made the practice of placing feral comb on the perch of hives for robbing and was cautioned against this practice by several beekeepers. I didn't see the threat so continued with this practice. Now I understand robbing a bit better and would strongly caution anyone against placing comb on the front of their hives. Robbing can be a tough habit to break once they get started. You might end up fighting with bees instead of managing all summer long. Matthew Westall dan hendricks wrote: > I have done this several times and it works just fine. > In three weeks all the brood will have hatched and the wall comb can > be > Dan > -- // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:11:25 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: feral comb above an excluder Comments: cc: beesting@qwest.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/8/01 9:33:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, beesting@QWEST.NET writes: <> There is a simple solution that *usually* works. In the spring (or at least during a flow), put a box of comb under the upside-down box of wild comb. As soon as you find brood in the lower box, smoke the upper to increase the odds that the queen is run down, and get an excluder in there. Queens are reluctant to lay in upside-down comb. Of course the bees will eventually tear down the comb to the midrib and build it right-side up, but the convenience of the comb just below her brood area will usually get her down quickly. <> Agreed. I have about come to the point of never using robbing as a method, simply because so many bees die when it happens, all with their honey stomachs full, of course. This waste is not the only reason, but it is enough to make me very reluctant to allow robbing at all. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 08:53:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Pollen Traps In-Reply-To: <200101081315.IAA17773@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I am looking for pollen traps too. Until now I found many tips. But, the most > ... If you found any suitable, please, send me drawing or picture or web > address. All innovation is welcome. BeeGadgets@egroups.com is a low volume, open list where pictures of bee-related gizmos and gadgets can be sent with messages or placed in the files by members. (BEE-L only accepts text messages). To subscribe to BeeGadgets, sent email to BeeGadgets-subscribe@onelist.com allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:06:27 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: speculation Greetings! Recently we have had our discussions described as pedantic and speculative. pedantic Characterized by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for book learning and formal rules. speculation 1. a. Contemplation or consideration of a subject; meditation; contemplation of a profound nature. b. A conclusion, an opinion, or a theory reached by conjecture. c. Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition. Sometimes going to the book is instructive. The term speculate has been eroded over the years to mean "wooly thinking", but formerly it described the true nature of human thought, which was an intelligent looking into a problem -- precisely the one thing that humans (and not machines) are capable of doing. If we don't do the thinking, we must depend on the conclusions of others, who may be engaged in the other kind of speculation: 2. Engagement in risky business transactions on the chance of quick or considerable profit. Peter Borst Ithaca NY USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:21:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: Pollen Traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken Coyle wrote: > I am looking for plans on the net for building a pollen trap, can any > one help? I know there are different styles, what are the pros and cons > of each.-- We've used variants of the OAC (Ontario Agricultural College) trap here in Tucson, Arizona for decades, and have always been satisfied with it. I believe there are plans online (?). As for cons, if you are in rainy areas, a screen bottom in the pollen tray is a good idea. Try to avoid pollen trays that pull out from the hive front - the bees don't like that. Side trays are workable, but rear access trays will allow the hives to be closer together, and generally work out better. The disadvantage of the full-size traps is that the whole hive has to be taken apart for the initial installation, but after that, there are ways to slide out or tip up the screen, and the trap body stays in place - the metal screen can also help keep mice out. The actual pollen-removal screen that the bees crawl through is usually metal, either hardware cloth (wire mesh) or punched holes in metal sheets (our favorite). Dead bee traps are incorporated in the trap body sometimes, and allow monitoring of mortality levels in the hive, and also chalkbrood "mummies". Some traps (OAC,) have built-in drone escapes - these usually work out fine, and keep dead drones from building up on the bottomboard. There are also "external" traps, which attach to the main entrance or at a gap between boxes above the entrance. They are not usually as efficient, and tend to be fragile. ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards "Feral Bee Tracker and AHB Identifier" Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona 85719 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:52:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: OAC Pollen Trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Esad Cancar wrote: > If you found any suitable, please, send me drawing or picture or web > address. All inovation is wellcome. > Best regards! > Esad > Bosnia & Herzegowina There are three photos at http://www.fao.org/docrep/w0076e/w0076e10.htm (near the bottom of the page). ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona 85719 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:53:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Bozard, Charles Emmett (Mick)" Subject: Any Arizona Beekeepers ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi everybody, i will be visiting my sister in Sierra Vista, Arizona and was wondering anybody out there bee interested in letting us visit your apiary ? thanks mick bozard in soth carolina ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:33:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: OAC Pollen Trap It is interesting that although there are some photographs of parts of pollen traps, and there are discussions and descriptions of pollen traps and their use on the Internet, I have not ever seen any "plans" to build a pollen trap anywhere I have looked. I have not looked recently, but the last time I looked I could not find any. I think we currently have an unmet need here. Layne Westover College Station, Texas, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 22:38:01 +0100 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home sweet home Subject: Re: OAC Pollen Trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Musashi wrote: > ..........................nd descriptions of pollen traps and their > use on the Internet, I have not ever seen any "plans" to build a pollen trap > anywhere I have looked. so.. you didnot find..... http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/ChiliPolVal.html or http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/Chili8.html regards, Jan -- Jan Tempelman Kerkstraat 53 NL 7471 AG Goor xx.31.(0)547.275788 mobile: 06 10719917 -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:36:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: Re: Requesting Advice on Hygienic Queens Comments: To: allend@INTERNODE.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Allen, Here is a site with some mode of action info on imidacloprid: ipmworld.umn.edu/chapters/bloomq.htm Regards Adony Adony Melathopoulos Apiculture Biotechnologist Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada Beaverlodge Research Farm Box CP 29 Beaverlodge, Alberta CANADA T0H 0C0 T +1 780 354 5130 F +1 780 354 8171 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 21:14:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael W Stoops Subject: Re: AFB - GM crop connection possible Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >From: Blane White > yes the resistance was first documented in areas > where roundup-ready soybeans were planted. QUESTION: Which came first, the round-up ready soybeans or the AFB resistant strain? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 08:43:29 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: resistant AFB Long-term exposure to Terramycin or improper dosage levels apparently created the bacterial resistance. ... patties did provide the means by which the antibiotic could be kept in the hive for many weeks or longer. It has been reported that some beekeepers kept patties inside their colonies for several months to a year. Leaving treatment materials in a hive longer than the label recommends is not a good idea since it represents a violation of the label and can contribute to the development of bacterial resistance to Terramycin Applying Terramycin in a powdered sugar mix has always been a convenient method of administering the antibiotic. However, when the treatment schedule is erratic and the bees consume all of the antibiotic before the brood nest has been properly cleaned, the amount of AFB cycles up and down, but the disease is never well-controlled. This type of imprecise treatment along with low doses or outdated Terramycin probably contributed to the development of resistance in P. larvae. excerpt from article by Dr. Bill Wilson, in Bee Culture, Oct 2000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:10:57 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: OAC Pollen Trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All I do not know what OAC stands for. Pollen trapping has been part of my routine for 18/19 years. I have no drawings available yet, but it is my intention to draw up my system and put it on my website. I will briefly outline it... My floors have a mesh panel in them (originally a travel screen) but more recently used for varroa monitoring with a slide in tray. To use them for pollen collecting...the tray is replaced by a drawer with fine nylon mesh as a bottom panel. I then place a "stripping screen" between the brood box and the floor. The stripper is built like an inner cover but with a plastic pollen stripper insert that has star shaped holes in it. This insert is above the centre of the mesh that is in the floor. I use two porter escapes for bee and drone exit. I make no provision for drone return...They will find residence in other colonies. In use the bees enter through the normal entrance but can only get to the colony by crawling through the star shaped holes. the stripped pellets of pollen fall through the mesh to the drawer below. The fine nylon mesh bottom to the drawer gives enough ventillation to stop the pollen going mouldy. When I have drawn this all up I will post it on "Bee Gadgets" List. Regards Dave Cushman ----- Original Message ----- From: Musashi > I could not find any. I think we currently have an unmet need here. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:25:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Wave Goodbye to Tucson BeeLab MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tuesday, Jan. 9, 2001 The Tucson Bee Lab staff was informed this morning that the entire Tucson bee research program will be tranferred to Weslaco, Texas. Last working day in Tucson will be March 23, 2001. All permanent employees ( 4 scientists, 2 technicians ) are being given directed transfers to Weslaco, or separation by retirement or resignation. This brings the almost fifty-year history of the Tucson Lab to an end. -- John ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Agricultural Research Service - USDA Tucson, Arizona 85719 http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/edwards.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:03:05 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Resistant AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I recall reading an article in either the American Bee Journal or Bee = Culture many years ago about AFB in Russia becoming resistant to = Oxytetracycline hydrochloride. Have not been able to find it since. = Maybe the editors of these journals can help us out with the reference = as I know they are both Bee-ler's. I am sure this pre-dated the Argentinean situation. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 21:12:53 -0000 Reply-To: "kidd@uni-hohenheim.de" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew Kidd Subject: Nicaragua Does anyone know of any contacts and information related to beekeeping or bee product marketing in (or from) Nicaragua? We are doing a study of poverty, vulnerability and extension and will use some topics (one of them bee products) to look at the issue through. Fieldwork will be in Vietnam, Uganda and Nicaragua. We have some info in Vietnam and Uganda, but nothing on Nicaragua. Indeed if someone has info or contacts on the other two countries, they would also be welcome. Thanks. Andy Kidd. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 13:16:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: OAC Pollen Trap I believe that OAC means "Ontario Agricultural College" where the design for this particular pollen trap was developed. I did a search today on the Web and discovered some plans for the OAC Pollen Trap at the following address: http://www.ag.uiuc.edu/~vista/html_pubs/BEEKEEP/CHAPT2/2-20.gif There is also text in Chapter 2 which explain the construction and operation. This information is helpful, as are the plans in Jan Tempelman's web site which he referred to yesterday. Andy Nachbaur's web site has an "online publication" called "Golden Harvest" that explains all about how pollen traps can be constructed and used, but has no plans per se. After having made my own pollen trap based on my readings and on plans I found in one of Eva Crane's books (the big one, I forget the title), and used it for a year (and it worked O.K.), I ordered a trap from Stauffer's Beehives and Pollen Traps that was recommended to me as the best pollen trap available on the market. Having received that trap and examined it closely, I concur that it is probably the best designed pollen trap I have ever seen and I look forward to using it this coming season. You can get the address to Stauffer's by doing a search in the BEE-L archives. I understand, though that Paul Martin (I believe is the proprietor's name) does not have a telephone and turnaround time can be slow. I hope this information is helpful. I didn't list all the web sites to which I referred above, but they can be easily found by searching the BEE-L archives at http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l Layne Westover College Station, Texas, U.S.A. (Stauffer's is in Pennsylvania, Port Trevorton, I believe) p.s. there was sure a dearth of information available on the web the last time I looked, and there's more now, but even more would be helpful if beekeepers are willing to share their ideas and plans in this area. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:21:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Coleene E. Davidson" Subject: RFD TV Programming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, There is a new network available on the Satellite TV system I use. It = is called RFD TV and is based in Texas. The programming is aimed at = agruculture and rural living. While watching, the program manager = requested suggestions for future programming. I sent and e-mail = suggesting Beekeeping programming-citing current issues affecting = beekeepers nation wide. The reply from him was: "If you are aware of any programming available on this subject please = forward to my attention, and we will air it ASAP." Patrick Gottsch RFDPATRICK@aol.com Although I am sure the viewing audience is small, I beleive it is a = promotional opportunity. Does anyone have any suggestions that on taped = programming that would suite this forum. Coleene Davidson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:16:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: Wave Goodbye to Tucson BeeLab MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've had a request for the lab phone number, in case you want to talk to Dr. Erickson about the implications of this closure. (520) 670-6380 Eric's extension is 104 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:31:02 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Hamilton Subject: Queen Rearing and Master Beekeeping Sessions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Allan .. for you AFB resistance breeding project This year they are in Nebraska at the Mead, NE bee lab. Marla Spivak will do a Queen Rearing Workshop from June 27-28 8am - 6pm Marion Ellis and others will do a Master Beekeeping Workshop June 28-30 from 8am - 7pm if your new here we also have Beginning Beekeeping in Kearney, NE Feb 20 & 22 Beginning Beekeeping in Omaha, NE March 5 & 7 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 05:10:39 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Stauffer's pollen traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have been using several Stauffer's traps for many years and am delighted with them. You used to be able to special order ones with a single round-hole punched plate stripper instead of two 5 per inch screens in series but they are no longer available. John Innanuzzi (sp?) reported he had sampled all avaiable traps and considered these the best. Their principal superiority (I think) is 10 escape cones and forager access through slots which extend across the front and both sides. I have found delivery by mail to be reasonably prompt. I can't supply the mailing address because circumstances have caused me to be spending the winter in Guam instead of in my home in Seattle. Sigh. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:59:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: RFD TV Programming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are some excellent beekeeping tapes available that, with the permission or payment to the author, would be perfect. I like The Honey Harvest. There are also a lot of How To tapes that show up in Bee Culture, ABJ and other pubs that the authors might want to get more exposure. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:55:54 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Fox Subject: demaree splits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit need info. on which old issue of ABJ had article & illustrations on demaree splits. can anyone help? thanks, frank fox ffox@genesco.com >>> Musashi 01/09 1:16 PM >>> I believe that OAC means "Ontario Agricultural College" where the design for this particular pollen trap was developed. I did a search today on the Web and discovered some plans for the OAC Pollen Trap at the following address: http://www.ag.uiuc.edu/~vista/html_pubs/BEEKEEP/CHAPT2/2-20.gif There is also text in Chapter 2 which explain the construction and operation. This information is helpful, as are the plans in Jan Tempelman's web site which he referred to yesterday. Andy Nachbaur's web site has an "online publication" called "Golden Harvest" that explains all about how pollen traps can be constructed and used, but has no plans per se. After having made my own pollen trap based on my readings and on plans I found in one of Eva Crane's books (the big one, I forget the title), and used it for a year (and it worked O.K.), I ordered a trap from Stauffer's Beehives and Pollen Traps that was recommended to me as the best pollen trap available on the market. Having received that trap and examined it closely, I concur that it is probably the best designed pollen trap I have ever seen and I look forward to using it this coming season. You can get the address to Stauffer's by doing a search in the BEE-L archives. I understand, though that Paul Martin (I believe is the proprietor's name) does not have a telephone and turnaround time can be slow. I hope this information is helpful. I didn't list all the web sites to which I referred above, but they can be easily found by searching the BEE-L archives at http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l Layne Westover College Station, Texas, U.S.A. (Stauffer's is in Pennsylvania, Port Trevorton, I believe) p.s. there was sure a dearth of information available on the web the last time I looked, and there's more now, but even more would be helpful if beekeepers are willing to share their ideas and plans in this area. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:54:38 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Fox Subject: demaree splits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit several yrs. ago came across article on demaree splits & cannot find it in my magazine library. i THINK it was an issue of ABJ. can anyone help? it was a pretty good one & included visual aids as well as a detailed description (demaree for dummies!). can anyone point me in the right direction? i have 7 yrs.' worth of back issues. i am just not seeing the article. thank you, frank fox nashville, tn ffox@genesco.com >>> Dave Cushman 01/09 9:10 AM >>> Hi All I do not know what OAC stands for. Pollen trapping has been part of my routine for 18/19 years. I have no drawings available yet, but it is my intention to draw up my system and put it on my website. I will briefly outline it... My floors have a mesh panel in them (originally a travel screen) but more recently used for varroa monitoring with a slide in tray. To use them for pollen collecting...the tray is replaced by a drawer with fine nylon mesh as a bottom panel. I then place a "stripping screen" between the brood box and the floor. The stripper is built like an inner cover but with a plastic pollen stripper insert that has star shaped holes in it. This insert is above the centre of the mesh that is in the floor. I use two porter escapes for bee and drone exit. I make no provision for drone return...They will find residence in other colonies. In use the bees enter through the normal entrance but can only get to the colony by crawling through the star shaped holes. the stripped pellets of pollen fall through the mesh to the drawer below. The fine nylon mesh bottom to the drawer gives enough ventillation to stop the pollen going mouldy. When I have drawn this all up I will post it on "Bee Gadgets" List. Regards Dave Cushman ----- Original Message ----- From: Musashi > I could not find any. I think we currently have an unmet need here. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:03:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: NW MI Horticultural Research Station Subject: Imidacloprid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed This announcement came into our office today: Imidacloprid, a Gustafson Insecticide - EPA Announces Receipt of a Gustafson Pesticide Petition Requesting that the Agency Establish Tolerances for Residues in or on the raw agricultural commodities: corn, field fodder; corn, field forage; and corn, field grain - Comments on the petition are due to EPA by February 5 - EPA Contact: Kerry Leifer, Registration Division, Office of Pesticide Programs at 703 308 8811; e-mail: leifer.kerry@epa.gov - EPA January 5 Federal Register: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=2001_register&docid=01-370-filed Alison Heins, Technician NW Michigan Horticultural Research Station 6686 S. Center Hwy, C.R. 633 Traverse City, MI 49684 Phone: 231/946-1510 Fax: 231/946-1404 email: nwmihort@msue.msu.edu Check the Station's web site at: http://www.maes.msu.edu/nwmihort ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:21:00 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Weight of Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was looking for the rule of thumb for how many bees per pound in package bees. I can't find it in my notes or in the Bee List archives. Can anyone help here? Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:16:13 +0100 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home sweet home Subject: Re: Stauffer's pollen traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dan hendricks wrote: > ......been using several Stauffer's traps....... Can some point my in that direction?????? regards, -- Jan Jan Tempelman Kerkstraat 53 NL 7471 AG Goor xx.31.(0)547.275788 mobile: 06 10719917 -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:38:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Malcolm (Tom) Sanford" Subject: Any help for Kazakhstan? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:05:36 -0500 To: "Jill D. Wright" From: "Dr. Malcolm (Tom) Sanford" Subject: Re: Beekeeping in Kazakhstan Cc: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDUs In-Reply-To: <001b01c07ab4$02029700$2e201f0c@sterrett0018> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Jill, Don't really know where to start. There are several Internet sites that feature international information: http://www.beekeeping.com/apiservices/index_us.htm http://www.beekeeping.com/bees-for-development/bees_and_development.htm http://www.apiconsult.com/index.html concentrates on Africa http://www.cf.ac.uk/ibra/ As for donations, you can try: http://bee.airoot.com/beeculture/ http://www.dadant.com/ http://www.beekeeping.com/thomas/index_us.htm Although internatinal expertise is important, most necessary will be finding beekeepers in the region who are successful and begin by doing what they are doing. I am sending this to the bee-l discussion list. Perhaps there is someone there who can help you. I am asking my colleagues on the list to communicate directly with Ms. Wright at sterrett@turbosurf.net Tom Sanford At 10:18 PM 1/9/01 -0500, you wrote: Dear Dr. Sanford, I have found your articles in Bee Culture to be very helpful. I have a very unique situation that I would appreciate your advise about. My family has some dear friends who are Christian missionaries to the Uighur people of Kazakhstan. They have begged my father and me for the last 2 years now to assist them by coming over for a short term mission trip to help a couple of the new believers there establish beekeeping as a home industry or small business. They are continually looking for opportunities to help the people learn to be self supportive and productive. This seems to be a difficult transition from relying on their former Communist government for jobs. They would like us to come this spring. I have a million questions before we can make a decision. They continue to assure me that they are not looking for expertise, just a bit of experience and the desire to be used of God. My understanding is that Kazakhstan is a former soviet republic that is mostly Muslim. Their location is near China at the same approximate latitude as the Great Lakes. Economic hardships are severe there and most of the merchandising is done at outdoor markets. The most common languages are Uighur, Russian and Kazakh. Some also speak Uzbek, Kirghiz, and Turkish. Gratefully, there will be interpreters available. We need to learn much more about the market in the Almaty, Kazakhstan area for bee products; prevalence of bee diseases; climate and foliage; local availability versus shipping involved to purchase bees, instructional material, supplies and equipment. It would be awful to start them on something that would be impossible to sustain. Would you have any advise on how to go about such a project? Where do we begin to find the information we need? Could you recommend anyone who has international beekeeping experience? Do you think any US companies would be willing to donate supplies for us to ship in advance? Perhaps you know some contacts that would be helpful. Would you be willing to be an email consultant if we do get over there and need some advise? Thanks for your help, Jill Wright, 6196 W US RT 224 FINDLAY, OH 45840 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:58:01 -0500 Reply-To: "Keith B. Forsyth" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Keith B. Forsyth" Subject: Re: Weight of Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: About 4000 per pound in weight. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:02:41 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Translation of French Agriculture Minister's position regarding "Gaucho" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As released by the Press Office of the French Minister of Agriculture: Jean GLAVANY received the beekeepers representatives - Paris, 09/01/2001 Jean GLAVANY, Minister of Agriculture and of Fisheries received on Tuesday 9th. January 2001 the representatives of the Coordination des Apiculteurs de France, as well as the representatives from the Federation Nationale des Syndicats d'Exploitants Agricoles and the Confédération paysanne (Farmers Unions). It was to state the position relating to the insecticide "Gaucho". Conforming to the Principle of Precaution, the use of this product on sunflower seed was subjected in January 1999 to a suspension in use for two years, until the results of studies defined the effects on honey bee populations. The Commission of Investigation into the toxicity of anti parasitic products used in agriculture found during the meeting of 13/12/2000 that the collection of assembled data did not allow for the formal and exclusive incrimination of sunflower seeds treated by the preparation "Gaucho", nor did it conclude in the absence of risk for bees. Before taking a new decision, the Minister has listened to the arguments put forward by the beekeepers who understandably wish to preserve the health and productivity of their hives. Jean GLAVANYrecalled that all decisions that may have an impact on health or the environment should be object to a profound risk evaluation. "If one has doubts, the Principle of Precaution should be applied. I shall ensure that that I have all the scientific, technical and legal guarantees before pronouncing on "Gaucho" as on all other pesticide products susceptible of having an impact on bees and other pollinating insects" declared the Minister on leaving the interview which took place in a cordial atmosphere. A decision will be taken, after advice from the Committee of Authorisation who shall meet on the subject on the 11th. January 2001, and after consultation with BAYER (product manufacturer) and the seed merchants. This is an un-official translation and should be taken as such. Peter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:40:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew olmstead Subject: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm thinking of getting some carniolans this spring and was = woundering what other beekeepers think of them? I now have 6 hives of = italians and have done well with them. Thanks , Matt ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:07:57 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lindahl, Larry AGF:EX" Subject: Apitheripy and Migraine Headaches MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT A friend of mine was asking if there was any apitherpy method that would relieve or cure migraine headaches? Is there any one on the list with experience in this regard? You may E-mail me directly or put it on the list. My E-mail address larry.lindahl@gems8.gov.bc.ca Cheers !! Larry ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:01:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: keastman Subject: Stauffers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The address in 1995 was Stauffer's Beehives Superior Pollen Traps RD 1 Box 489 Port Trevorton, PA 17864 I have one of the Stouffer's traps and it works well. It is very similar to the "Sundance" pollen trap by Ross Rounds. They both perform very much the same. I have one of each and have had good success with both of them. Ken Eastman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:27:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Burch Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Matt........ I have several hives each of the Italians, Starline, and Carniolans here in Western North Carolina.......... All three done real good last year but I did notice the Carniolans did not produce quite as much as the other two..... My Uncle in South Louisiana changed all his hives to Carniolans and he is very happy with the results....... It might depend on where you live as to how well the Carniolans do, someone else might have more information on that part....... Good luck this year Paul ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:34:59 -0500 Reply-To: beeman@kingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kent stienburg Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like them.:-) Kent ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:39:43 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: AFB resistance to Terramycin "Crisco patties with Terramycin are no longer recommended for use against American Foul Brood (AFB), European Foul Brood, and Tracheal mites. Please don't use this treatment to avoid development of resistance of AFB to terramycin. To date, we have not found AFB resistance to Terramycin in Ontario." from 2000 Ontario Recommendations for Honey Bee Disease Control http://www.ontariobee.com/disease.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:39:54 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: resistant AFB "Given the present regulatory climate concerning antibiotic use, the chances of developing alternative legal treatments for foulbrood are dicey at best. Fortunately, there are alternatives. ... Dr. Marla Spivak at the University of Minnesota asks beekeepers to consider investing in new foundation and hygienic queens rather than antibiotics. There may be greater payoffs in end, she says, resulting in healthier bees, and this can provide a good way to exit the chemical treadmill. Thus, she concludes, ... the last thing we need are more antibiotics for bees" -- excerpt from article by Tom Sanford, in Apis, Dec 2000 This is what many of us want: disease resistant stock. However, there are serious problems with such a scenario -- number one being supercedure. From my view, today's commercially produced queens are rapidly superceded, some within weeks or months of purchase. And for the beekeeper who raises his own queens in order to minimize supercedure, there arises the problem of lack of control over the drone line. Regular queens can cost US $10.00 and undoubtedly special lines will cost more. Can we afford to requeen every hive every year at that price -- to say nothing of the time and effort involved? No wonder beekeepers -- like other agriculturists -- want to be able to use antibiotics. There is no reason that the bee industry should be singled out and prevented from having access to a variety of antibiotics, just as we now have (in the US) at least three chemicals to use against mites (apistan, formic acid, coumaphos). "There is no registered treatment [in Canada] that will kill the resistant AFB. Beekeepers are faced with burning thousands of hives, millions of dollars in bees and equipment and hundreds of millions of dollars in lost pollination potential. Together with low honey prices this crisis may cause some beekeepers to consider bankruptcy, and many will give up keeping bees. It is a huge problem and one that will without doubt spread to other regions." -- excerpt from "American Foul Brood is Back" by Heather Clay, in Hive Notes, Nov 2000 posted by Peter Borst Ithaca NY USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:32:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Drones & Pollen Hello All, Can beekeepers in the Shreveport,Louisiana area tell me when they start getting spring tree pollen and also when they start seeing the first drones raised in their hives. I realize this varies from year to year so I am only looking for a *normal year* type answer. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:04:39 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Analysis of Apistan/Bayvarol induced fallen varroa Comments: To: IrishBeekeeping@listbot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All The Varroa Calculator devised by MAFF in the UK uses a multiplier to convert the number of naturally fallen varroa mites daily into an approximation of the number of mites in the hive. The value of the multiplier varies with the time of the year. I was wondering about the following: Does anybody know of any mathematical relationship between the number of mites which will fall as the result of the insertion for diagnosis of Apistan/Bayvarol strips, and the total number of mites in the hive? I ask this question for the following reason. Assume that I place Apistan or Bayvarol strips into a hive for diagnosis say in mid March (within 6 weeks of supering here in Dublin). If it were possible to work out the level of infestation from the number of fallen mites, I could then possibly use an IPM approach (entrapment using drone brood, Open Mesh Floor, etc), if the number were small and super the hive as normal. On the other hand if it were a severe infestation I could use Apistan/Bayvarol and delay supering the hive. Any comments most welcome. Sincerely Tom Barrett ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:08:28 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony N Morgan Organization: Sor-Trondelag College, Division of Electronic Engineering Subject: Biological control of foulbrood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Via Erik Osterlund in the BiologicalBeekeeping list: http://www.cf.ac.uk/biosi/research/biodiversity/staff/bnd.html Scroll down the page and read the research project summaries. Among others: "Development of a biological control method for the prevention and /or treatment of foulbrood in honey bees" -- Anthony N Morgan, Fřrsteamanuensis Institutt for Elektroteknikk Hřgskolen i Sřr-Trřndelag N-7005 Trondheim, Norway anthony@iet.hist.no Tlf. 73 55 96 04 Fax. 73 55 95 81 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 06:33:39 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: ARNOLD JONES Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii An interesting notion. I have five buckfast and five of the russian. The russian out produce the buckfast by several pounds. Same area, same water source, same nectar source. Has anyone written anything on preference of flowers with the various bee strains? Are there any climate or terrain corralations for the various strains. thank-you arnold jones ===== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:01:13 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: Small Bee Suit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a friend that has been hanging around for about a year since I put a hive of bees in his Dad's garden. He helps me with making supers & frames & stuff. He paints them all. He's 11 years old. He wants to get involved with the bees this spring and borrows all my bee books. I have an extra veil but it doesn't fit very well and his mother is concerned. She doesn't want to allow him to do this but I have convinced her that if I can get a bee suit or jacket, something with a veil or hood built on, that it will be all right. Well, these people don't have much and cannot afford to invest in this venture. Sooo...here's my plea. Does anyone out there have a used suit that has been out grown and are willing to part with at a minimal price? I hope someone has one laying around they don't use. If you can help, I'm at RASpiek@aol.com Richard Spiekhout South Central, Ky. USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:54:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: establishing hygenic stock Comments: To: john.gates@gems9.gov.bc.ca, alexnanc@isn.net, peterborst@persianarts.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Peter and Bee-L Adony Melathopoulos Apiculture Biotechnologist Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada Beaverlodge Research Farm Box CP 29 Beaverlodge, Alberta CANADA T0H 0C0 T +1 780 354 5130 F +1 780 354 8171 >>> Peter Borst 01/11 12:39 AM This is what many of us want: disease resistant stock. However, there are serious problems with such a scenario -- number one being supercedure. From my view, today's commercially produced queens are rapidly superceded, some within weeks or months of purchase. And for the beekeeper who raises his own queens in order to minimize supercedure, there arises the problem of lack of control over the drone line.>> A recently published paper address some of the concerns raised by Peter: Palacio, M.A., E. E. Figini, S.R. Ruffinengo, E.M. Rodriguez, M.L. del Hoyo and E. L. Bedascarrasbure. Changes in a population of Apis mellifera L. selected for hygenic behavior and its realation to brood disease tolerance. Apidologie. 31: 471--478. Abstract Honeybee colonies were evaluated for hygenic behavior using a pin-killed assay. Presence and absence of visual symptoms of brood diseases were recorded. Colonies that removed more than 80% of dead brood after 24 hours were selected for queen and drone production and new colonies were evaluated for hygenic behavior. This procedure was repeated yearly from 1992 through 1997.... Colonies were classified as hygenic and non-hygenic and these data were related to the incidence of brood diseases. Total hygenic behavior increased in the population after four years of selection on queens without mating control from 66.25% in 1992 to 84.56% in 1997. Hygenic colonies had a lower frequency of brood diseases when compared to non-hygenic colonies. It suggested that this trait can be used as a selection criterion in queen breeders' apiaries. The study suggests that beekeepers who practice yearly requeening can significatly raise the level of hygenic behavior in their colonies through selection of hygenic breeders and using open mating; that is WITHOUT isolated mating systems or artificial insemination. At the end of the study, after five years of selection, colonies with hygenic stock had significantly lower levels of AFB; unselected stock had 10.1% and selected stock had 1.8%. Admittedly, a requeening program as outlined in the study, is a long term investment, however with the drawbacks from relying on antibiotics, an investment which may prove prudent and wise. The problems with antibiotics are four; a) Resistance to antibiotics is very likely. b) Antibiotics can leave residues in honey and wax, which are illegal in many honey importing countries and can erode public confidence in the purity of hive products. c) The infective spores are unaffected by antibiotics and treatment does not reduce disease inoculum, d) Antibiotics tend to temporarily mask disease symptoms, making assessments of AFB infection among colonies difficult. Ontario, I have heard, is presently producing hygenic bee stocks. For more information visit: http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/crops/facts/info_honeybeequeen.htm Regards Adony ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:36:23 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: huestis Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Matt, My first question is where do you live? How much experience do you have? Their is a difference in management between carniolans and Italian colonies. Just because you have sucess with Italians doesn't mean you can't do the same with another race! Carniolans build up in the spring very rapidly and need in my opinion a little more care than italians. Here is a list of characteristics: 1.Rapid population build up 2.conserve honey stores 3.gentle(as long as they are well breed) 4.overwinter on smaller honey/pollen stores(until brood rearing begins) 5.rob less(they will if you allow it) 6.very white cappings(the best for comb honey in my opinion) 7.not much brace comb or propolis 8.forages well in inclement weather also a little farther 9. swarms if not given enough room 10. dark queen can be hard to find for some people(get her marked) For more info go to http://www.apiphyt.com/carnica/ Part of the joy of being a beekeeper is trying different things. So have a go with carniolans. I would keep them in three deep chambers. Reverse them in the normal way. Make a split with one of those deep boxes, super both as usual and recombine in the fall. This should make for very strong colonies in the spring and help with swarming. Good Luck. Clayton Huestis ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew olmstead To: Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 3:40 PM Subject: Carniolans > I'm thinking of getting some carniolans this spring and was = > woundering what other beekeepers think of them? I now have 6 hives of = > italians and have done well with them. > Thanks , Matt > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:43:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "john f. mesinger" Subject: Re: Carniolans In-Reply-To: <200101110028.TAA18636@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I switched to carniolans three years ago. The so-called Yugos were as bad as the car of that name. Those from Heitkam and Strachan, the Coby strain, have been good. However, you definitely have to change the way you work with them; timing of brood production and space needs differ widely fom Italians. I would suggest you be careful where you get them. Some seem to be crossbred with Caucasians. Some seem to have been bred with a mix of drones other than Carniolan. Two east coast breeders of Coby bees have not worked for me. One is still building up his stock. The other does not respond to inqueries. If Italians work for you - remember the adage: IF IT AIN"T BROKE, DON"T FIX IT. John F. Mesinger jfm6f@unix.mail.virginia.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:11:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CAIR Subject: Question on Northern Virginia beekeeping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hello I am new to beekeeping. I have bees in Northern Virginia and am wondering what I should do this spring and when I should do it. I think I have to re-queen since my bees swarmed alot in their first year and didn't produce much honey. When should I do this and how? I have just one hive now but want to add three this spring. When can I install new nucs for the coming year? What is the best race for my area? Can I try out different races in hives close to each other? When is the primary honey flow and what is the nectar source? I read a lot of bee books etc., but they do not have area-specific information. The "Hive and the Honey Bee" has info but it covers too wide an area. Anything else I should be doing? Medicine, etc. Ibrahim ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:37:33 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Keim Subject: Need to buy Pollen Substitute... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" I need to purchase about 150 pounds of pollen substitute for this spring, but the shipping is killing me for such a miniscule amount. I have tried a couple of supply houses close to me, but neither stock it, and I hate to bother the commercial producers in my area. My apiary is in Northeast Kansas, so southeast Nebraska, western Missouri, and even southwest Iowa would be within the realm of possibility of customer pick-up. Anyone know of distributors in these areas, or have other ideas? Thanks. John Keim Keim Apiaries Fairview, Kansas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:08:09 -0800 Reply-To: mdshepherd@xerces.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Shepherd Subject: State bee protection programs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi folks, I am currently reviewing the EPA's draft Pesticide Registration Notice on= Bee Precautionary Labeling. Her at the Xerces Society, we want to get a= response to the EPA by the Jan 22nd deadline. The draft notice talks of state approved bee protection programs. Can= anyone point me towards some information on these? Which states have them,= where can I get a copy of one? I've looked in the BEE-L archives and found= Tom Theobold's article, but nothing on protection plans. It would be good= to find out a bit more about them since the proposed pesticide labeling= may not be applied where such programs exist. Do the programs provide= better protection to bees than the proposed labeling? What if the= programs, often voluntary, offer less protection? Will the draft labeling= rules apply or be ignored in favor of the lesser standard? Has anyone sent the EPA comments? I would be pleased to see them if you'll= send me a copy. If we all say the same thing, the regulators might listen. Your comments, please! Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. Matthew Shepherd ______________________________________ Matthew Shepherd Director, Pollinator Program and Publications The Xerces Society 4828 SE Hawthorne Blvd, Portland, OR 97215 Tel: 503-232 6639 Fax: 503-233 6794 Email: mdshepherd@xerces.org Website: www.xerces.org ______________________________________ The Xerces Society is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the conservation of invertebrates. ______________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:10:10 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Morris Subject: Re: Question on Northern Virginia beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a new keeper myself, I can say I have learned a lot from Dr. Imiries Pink Pages--online, and the book-The Beekeepers Handbook (3rd edition)-by Dr Diana Sammararo. Tim Morris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:02:00 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark G Spagnolo Subject: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Besides the color, there are other less obvious differences between = Italians and Carniolans. I've worked extensively with both breeds and even spent a couple days = watching Sue Cobey artificially inseminate breeder queens. I even = accompanied her on a drone trapping expedition! We collected traps with = hundreds of big fat drones. Collecting the semen was another story. I = am very glad I wasn't born a drone! Squeeze, pop, and it's all over! In my opinion, even though both breeds will produce honey, the real = difference between these breeds is in how they handle a dearth or the = big dearth, winter. Carniolans will stop rearing brood much more = quickly than Italians. The saying is soming to the effect that "The = Italians made more honey than the Carniolans, but they also ate a lot = more". When I kept bees in the tropics I used only Italians. Now that I keep = bees in Minnesota, I use only Carniolans. =20 You really need to determine how you want to keep bees and then use the = appropriate breed. Mark in Minnesota ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:18:51 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Organization: Oregon VOS Subject: Re: State bee protection programs Comments: To: Matthew Shepherd In-Reply-To: <200101112257.RAA18576@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII It occurs to me that there is about to be a rush to return as much as possible to the States under the guise of "states'" rights. Among other things, Federal expenses are cut leading to tax cuts, etc. However, even though in the past beekeepers stayed put and arguably didn't engage in interstate commerce, that is no longer true. Pollination requires interstate commerce which is one trigger for Federal intervention. It is in the interest of the pesticide (of any kind) producers to move responsibility to the States, fragmenting the responsibility for all kinds of labeling, use, and enforcement which can be brought to bear against them. In addition, even if we ignore interstate/international marketing of honey which it can be argued is normally done by a distribution level at least one step removed from beekeeping, and which is, in relative terms a minor market, the same can't be said of crop production reliant on bees as reliable and manageable pollinators. Therefore, while the State programs are important, for the purposes of holding the line or even beefing up the insect (bee) protection mechanisms including the pesticide use labels, the harm about to be done directly to the bee industry and secondarily to the crop production industry depends on making the argument that both, because of their interstate nature, are properly the responsibility of the Federal Government. In addition, since not all States maintain the same level of bee protection programs, some, evidently not controlling bees at all, it seems to me an argument can be made to the States and the Federal Government, that States having weak programs may find themselves ignored by the pollination industry. Beekeepers may conclude that it is not worth endangering their assets to move them into areas with weak or no regulation. [The usual disclaimer: not qualified to make a legal argument but have, on occasion, read the Constitution.] On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Matthew Shepherd wrote: > I am currently reviewing the EPA's draft Pesticide Registration Notice on= > Bee Precautionary Labeling. Her at the Xerces Society, we want to get a= > response to the EPA by the Jan 22nd deadline. > > The draft notice talks of state approved bee protection programs. Can= > anyone point me towards some information on these? --------------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, Raw Honey | leave our kids a decent place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 02:43:40 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Comments: cc: MelathopoulosA@EM.AGR.CA Adony, you write: >> The problems with antibiotics are four; >> a) Resistance to antibiotics is very likely. This would be far less of a problem if we could rotate two or three substances, like sulfathiazole and streptomycin >> b) Antibiotics can leave residues in honey and wax, which are illegal in many honey importing countries and can erode public confidence in the purity of hive products. Unfortunately, honey already suffers from this. NOFA (Northeast Organic Farmers Assn) won't certify *any* honey as organic and not just because of drugs; they think bees probably pick up pesticides from the crops they visit. Whether it is true or not, *they think this*. I believe most honey these days is sold to manufacturing firms like Nabisco and they certainly don't care about traces of chemicals >> c) The infective spores are unaffected by antibiotics and treatment does not reduce disease inoculum, This is not strictly true. By preventing disease from occurring the overall production of spores is drastically reduced. One rotten AFB hive could infect hundreds of colonies. This is the principal of prevention >> d) Antibiotics tend to temporarily mask disease symptoms, making assessments of AFB infection among colonies difficult. This is quite right and is a serious problem. Once on the antibiotic treadmill, one can't easily get off. By the way, I come from California where AFB was pretty widespread. It was also one of the first states to do away with inspection, with serious consequences ensuing. >> Ontario, I have heard, is presently producing hygenic bee stocks. For more information visit: http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/crops/facts/info_honeybeequeen.htm I have used so called hygienic stock and the difference was not pronounced. Of course, we were trying to reduce mite counts, not AFB, and using resistant stock against mites has been less encouraging. But you don't address the problem of high supercedure. I worked in a commercial queen raising outfit in 1981 (a big name concern in California) and I thought their practices were shoddy. They raised far too many cells under less than ideal conditions, resulting in puny cells. This was not regarded even as a problem! The queens mated under less than ideal conditions, having perhaps one or two flying days and then they were sold. Even if you have good quality stock, it means little if poor queens are raised and shipped. To produce true high quality queens would be very expensive. Even at US $10, that represents a cost of about 25 pounds of honey at today's prices. Thanks for the info. Peter Borst ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:10:34 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Weight of Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 4000/lb was last I remember Hive and the honey bee says 3500 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:11:56 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark G Spagnolo > We collected traps with = > hundreds of big fat drones. Collecting the semen was another story. I = > am very glad I wasn't born a drone! Squeeze, pop, and it's all over! My local Beekeeping Association is finding that many drones are "dry" when trying to collect semen. Can you indicate what percentage of the drones that you observed were "unproductive of semen"? How do you site your drone traps and how are they constructed? Best Regards Dave Cushman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 04:26:13 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/10/01 7:29:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, druid@TOGETHER.NET writes: << I'm thinking of getting some carniolans this spring and was = woundering what other beekeepers think of them? I now have 6 hives of = italians and have done well with them. >> You don't say where you are. Others have given good pointers. I would like to add one. If you are in the deep south... I have found them to be poor at coping with long, hot, dry weather. Remember they were originally a mountain bee, and I think they are better adapted to areas with less extreme summers. Some also depends on your intent and the conditions with which you will use them. Italians will keep larger populations thru the winter (and of course, eat more). This is not a problem it you want to start making packages in March, or if your main flow begins very early. Carnolians are still "waking up," at this point. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 01:17:45 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: A story just for fun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Serious-all-the-time folks are going to hate this post. The setting: The queen in the University of Guam observation hive (which I maintain when I'm here during the winter) had quit laying. The queen in their companion full-sized hive had reduced her rate of egg laying after her second year. The obvious solution to both problems was the move the two year old queen into th OH, where slow laying is an asset, and buy a new queen from Kona for the big hive. In preparation, we inspected the big hive and discovered an empty queen cell with its end open. The bees had beaten us to the requeening. But on the next frame was the marked two year old queen! This was my first encounter with a situation often cited in the literature where a new queen will tolerate the old dowager queen. So I moved a couple of frames of brood with stores and bees into the OH and put BOTH queens in with them, after marking the new queen, of course. I can just imagine explaining this to the kids after having just taught them that a hive has only one queen! Providing that they both coexist in the two frame hive as they did in the ten frame one. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:24:03 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Swarm prevention MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Ibrahim. You can force swarms to self-retrieve by simply putting a queen excluder between the bottom box and the bottom board. Any swarms will be back in the hive within 2 hours after finding they don't have and egg layer with them. If you do this, though, you must go through the hive frame by frame every 10 days to be sure the bees aren't trying to raise new queens. With the QE below, new queens can't get out to mate. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:39:26 -0800 Reply-To: honeyboy@pacbell.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Subject: Stauffer pollen traps MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi, I too, have purchased Stauffer pollen traps and think they are the best. I wrote for information as to whether he is still in business 2 months ago and have still not heard from him. I gave up and bought a few Sundance traps for about 2x the price. Arrrrr..... Mason Harris KarinaBee Apiaries Burlingame, CA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:28:40 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: IBList Analysis of Apistan/Bayvarol induced fallen varroa Comments: To: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Comments: cc: IrishBeekeeping@listbot.com In-Reply-To: <200101111104.LAA59120@mail.iol.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200101111104.LAA59120@mail.iol.ie>, Computer Software Solutions Ltd writes >Does anybody know of any mathematical relationship between the number of >mites which will fall as the result of the insertion for diagnosis of >Apistan/Bayvarol strips, and the total number of mites in the hive? Norman has answered this so here is a small addition. I suggest you use the OMF under all colonies and put a tray under each for a day or two in May and see what you get. Use the multiplier and take it from there. Use any integrated method you wish and monitor again, say, a month later. Adjust the potency of your method(s) to suit the level found. You can monitor the mites for damage and consider breeding from those colonies doing most damage. What do people say about this approach? I haven't tried it yet as I have chickened out and have only used an annual application as one of the herd but it is the logical conclusion to integration, which would have to be on an individualised basis. The critical time would be late in the year when overwhelmed colonies disperse. -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:59:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "john f. mesinger" Subject: Re: Carniolans In-Reply-To: <200101121716.MAA11988@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Re: Carniolans just waking up in March in SC. The three previous winters in central VA were unusually warm. I found brood started on three frames the last week of January in two hives and each of these had 7 frames of brood by March. [Having left them honeybound the second year not realizing they ate so little stores compared to my Italians they were ready to swarm in mid March.] The same first two years, Starlines had not started brood laying the first week of March and had eaten so much more honey, there was no problem of them being honey bound [I sold them that year, and now have 4 carniolan hives educating me.] I do agree that not only state but elevation would be a factor to report when raising questions about "what type of bee". John F. Mesinger jfm6f@unix.mail.virginia.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:12:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: resistance to tetracycline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Could we be looking at very large outbreaks of AFB as antibiotics loose their effectiveness? Is there still a large number of Bacillus larvae spores in our honey? In 1988 Dr. Shiminuki did research on the subject . The American Bee Journal received the manuscript for publication Feb.8,1988 and ran the article in the May issue. I quote from Dr. Shiminuki and D.A. Knox test results. Commercial packer-No. of samples- Detectable levels Bacillus larvae U.S. & Canada - 21 - 21 Turkey - 1 - 1 Beekeeper packer U.S.& Canada - 33 - 10 New Zealand - 2 - 0 infected colony - 1 - 1 Dr. Shiminuki found 33 of the 58 samples contained detectable levels of Bacillus Larvae(A.F.B.). Twenty-one of these samples were honey purchased from supermarket shelves in the U.S. and Canada.. 33 were obtained directly from individual U.S. and Canadian beekeeper/packers; two were from New Zealand; one was from a commercial packer in Turkey; and one was from a colony with American Foulbrood disease. Resistance to terramycin big problem or minor problem? Has Terramycin been masking a serious problem? comments? Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:11:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Wright Subject: Returning to the Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings to all from the American Southwest and thanks to all of those = out there providing informed discussion. Having been exposed to = beekeeping as a family affair during my childhood I am returning to the = hive after settling down with my own family.=20 After spending hours scouring the Bee-L archives I am struck by how = much beekeeping has changed in the last 20 years (to which I am sure the = old-timers will attest). Many new issues have arose such as the spread = of mites, the introduction of the africanized hybrids into America, the = fact that we can all email one another about bee related topics....... I = could go on and on and on. As I attempt to refresh my memories of the practical aspects of = beekeeping from my childhood I find myself struggling with some of these = new and unfamiliar challenges. Though the Bee-L archives have been a = great help, they are far from exhaustive. Of course, the essentials of = beekeeping remain the same. However, I would really benefit from any = recommendations for comprehensive texts on contemporary beekeeping = practice: how and when to treat for what, warning signs of this and = that. I feel most uninformed about exactly how diseases are dealt with = today. Technical refs are not intimidating. Beyond that, I find that beekeepers in my area are not doing anything = to respond to africanized colonies which have been documented in all = counties surrounding mine to the east, south, and west. I was shocked = to one individual routinely picking up swarms under these conditions = without a suit (am I overreacting here?). Any feedback from those = dealing with the AHB issue would be appreciated, particularly those in = my region. Thanks in advance! Scott W. New Mexico ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:59:58 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: TM in patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii People who keep patties with TM on the hive whenever extracating supers are not installed (like me) have to keep their heads down because so many vociferous people are trying to make us feel sinful. One knock on the practice is that the bees do not get enough TM fast enough to preclude undermedicating. Be advised that adding a goodly amount of honey - your own, of course - will cause the bees to consume the patties at a good rate, including those on the top brood box as well as between boxes. I use at least two tablespoons in 1/8# crisco from which I make two patties. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 05:16:55 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: BeeHoo It doesn't get too much more specialized than this. BeeHoo is a Yahoo-esque directory of resources for, you guessed it, beekeepers and bee enthusiasts. The site is not searchable but may be browsed by category and subtopic. These include bees, bee management, hives products, and health, among others. Sites are listed with a brief description, including languages used at the site. BeeHoo has a nice international scope, indexing numerous non-anglophone (mostly European) sites. BeeHoo itself is provided in both English and French. Users may sign up for a free newsletter and submit sites to be included in the directory. BeeHoo http://www.beehoo.com/ Apiculture photography contest - aulaapicola@jet.es, City Government of Azuqueca de Henares The Environment and Culture Council of the Excellency the Azuqueca de Henares City Government, through the municipal apiculture school, announces the following apiculture photography contest, ruled by the following guidelines. PARTICIPANTS: Open to any citizen or legal resident of any country in the world http://www.beehoo.com/news.php3?id=5 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:05:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: TM in patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dan hendricks wrote: > the bees do not get enough TM > fast enough to preclude undermedicating. The problem is that it may be a cause of AFB TM resistance. It is not listed as the way to apply TM to hives. It is easy to do and I did it and even suggested it a couple of years back as a way to combine it with tracheal mite treatment. I also used honey to spur its consumption, since the bees did not take it down very fast. But even then, in many cases the patties were still there after many weeks, so I would remove them since the bees were ready for supering. Another problem is the amount of TM in the patty. If you use the dosage suggested when using powdered sugar and TM on top bars, that is the amount used each time over several feedings. So is this the the level of TM in the patties or is it two, three or more times that? And do the patties remain whole over the brood cycle period or are they consumed too quickly and so the bees are overmedicated? I gave up the crisco/TM/sugar and terrapatties routine because it is not a very exact method of applying TM. I would like to add that it was because it was not in accordance with label instructions, but I cannot put on that mantle of righteousness. For me it was that I could be adding to AFB resistance. And since my first act as a beekeeper ten years ago was to burn the hive I had bought two weeks earlier because of AFB, I am a little sensitive to having that happen to others. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:32:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Pollen Traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have felt guilty for not contributing to this discussion during the past two weeks. We have had some family illness that has taken an inordinate amount of my time. I think I have pretty good information on the design history of today's bottom mount traps that I will share. I will also give you some thoughts on the other traps available. I believe that the OAC trap is close to the improved design bottom trap made by V. Shaparew during the 1970's. Mr. Shaparew was a nuclear scientist who immigrated to Canada from Russia. Mr. Shaparew was a beekeeper and decided that equipment could be considerably improved by incorporating known principles of physics, most particularly having to do with air flow. He designed or re-designed several items of equipment, two of which continue today. Those are the bottom mount pollen trap and the Conical Bee Escape Board. Concerning the pollen trap, Mr. Shaparew's improvements were: 1. One way drone and bee escapes 2. Improved air circulation to reduce the amount of pollen deteriorating or molding in humid conditions 3. Relief of congestion in the pollen stripping area 4. An easy and effective way of turning the trap "on" and "off", without heavy lifting of the brood nest and supers. 5. A system to largely prevent rain water from entering the pollen collection tray. The OAG trap largely or wholly represents Mr. Shaparew's design. After several years of use, beekeepers made modifications (improvements) to Mr. Shaparew's design, which resulted in the traps first offered by Stauffer's and, with further changes, in today's Sundance(tm) trap. There are many changes from the OAG design, some are minor and others significant. In summary, these are: 1. The weak spot of the Shaparew design was the pollen tray, with lacked proper ventilation and was prone to rip when scraped with a hive tool or placed on a jagged rock or branch. The Sundance(tm) trap has a stainless steel screen. In demonstrations, we scrape this, hard, with a hive tool to show that it will not cut or rip. 2. Much improved drone and bee escapes. The escapes cannot be damaged by skunks, falling hive covers, etc. or get clogged by dead drones. 3. A trap cover that prevents almost all hive debris, including dead varroa, from getting into the pollen drawer. 4. Improved design of the stripper area to more evenly spread the stripped pollen across the entire pollen tray, therefore increasing ventilation. I know of three other bottom mount traps offered commercially. As a pollen collector, it is clear to me that these are not made by a beekeeper who collects pollen! Each has major deficiencies involving: 1. Ventilation to prevent pollen deterioration and molding 2. Congestion in the stripper screens that significantly reduce foraging 3. Drone escapes 4. Trap durability/life 5. Hive debris falling into the collected pollen A pollen trap is a tool, and one that every beekeeper should have. Like any good tool, the Sundance(tm) is designed to do the job with high efficiency (while protecting the integrity and health of the hive), and will last a lifetime. Like other tools, similar (but not at all equal) models can be purchased for considerably less, and each is almost certainly worth the money paid, and no more. If measured in years or in pounds of pollen collected, we believe the Sundance(tm) trap is considerably less expensive than those with an initial cost that is 50% lower. The trap sold by Stauffer is excellent. However, as mentioned by others, the wait time is very long. The proprietor is Mennonite, and of a conservative sect. They use horse and buggy, no electricity and no gas or diesel powered farm or wood working equipment. He has a very large, young, family supported solely by the sweat of his brow and perhaps fewer material possessions than any member of this list. If you want to purchase a trap or traps for use in 2002, now is the time to send in an order. However, I think you will find his prices have substantially increased and may not be significantly lower than those for Sundance(tm). I hope so, as it has been clear to me for some time that he was selling them at less than his cost...assuming that a reasonable value was assigned to his time. Several list members have asked for plans, and none have been forthcoming. Perhaps none will be. I have received numerous inquiries concerning whether the Sundance(tm) design can be duplicated for private use, and willingly agree. I suggest that persons so inclined purchase one Sundance(tm) trap, and disassemble it to copy. Although we use glue as well as nails and staples to assemble, the trap will come apart relatively easily of one is careful. Once disassembled, one will discover that the trap has 3 major sub-assemblies, and a total of almost 40 separate parts. To insure accuracy and consistency of manufacture and gain speed, we use over 12 different assembly jigs. We do not have any plans or drawings, as the design has evolved over time. We rely on individual knowledge, and our jigs, to produce a consistent product. With regard to the price of a Sundance(tm) trap...Those of you who decide to make one trap will find that it takes well over 40 hours. If you then decide to make another five traps, and cut all the parts at once, and make up sub-assemblies and jigs, you may get the time down to 40-60 hours for those five traps. Further manufacture will advance the learning curve, and further reduce the time per trap. However, be prepared to be shocked at the material cost, which will not materially decrease as you make more traps at one time. Depending on wood and wire supplies, we cut enough material to make 50-200 traps at one time. We assemble 100 traps at a time, for the simple reason that we do not have storage room for more. That means putting together 300 sub-assemblies and then making those and other parts into the 100 traps. If we made 10 or even 25 traps at a time, at our present price, we would lose money on every one. So, if we are going to keep the price of a trap within reason we have to make and assemble a lot at a time. In order to do that, we have to sell a lot. In order to sell a lot, we have to sell through dealers, who have the catalogs and staff necessary to sell retail. Surprise, in order to sell through dealers they have to make some money! They have to advertise (which we do also), pay for phones and electricity, catalogs, clerks and warehouse people, cartons, etc. All this adds up, and results in today's prices. I don't mind telling you that in 2000 we just broke even on Sundance(tm) traps. I hope we will do better in 2001. But we also put several hundred wonderful tools in the hands of beekeepers. These will last a lifetime, and that makes me feel good. Finally, just a few words on the front-mount traps offered by a few dealers. BEE CAREFUL. You will principally get just what you pay for. At a recent meeting of the Ohio state organization, one beekeeper told me he purchased 25 such traps, and then spent over 100 hours on carpentry to get the traps in decent shape. While every beekeeper should collect some pollen, they are in a Catch-22 when it comes to buying their first trap. They may be tempted to pay less than top price "because I really don't need to collect that much pollen", but don't have enough experience to know what features to look for and what flaws to avoid. Many end up first buying an inexpensive trap, being disillusioned, and then buying a proper trap. In the end they spend more than 150% of what they should have! I hope I have been helpful. Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:10:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: Re: Pollen Traps In-Reply-To: <200101131640.LAA16016@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > in decent shape. While every beekeeper should collect some pollen, they are > in a Catch-22 when it comes to buying their first trap. Hello Lloyd - Can you please share with us why you feel every beekeeper should collect some pollen? Are you referring to collecting pollen for human consumption? I'm one of those that have never embraced the idea that beekeepers _should_ collect pollen to feed back to the bees which I hear is a practice from several sources. I suppose one could collect pollen for personal consumption but I feel great care should be given when doing so so as not to short change the bees immediate need and long term storage for pollen. If one is going to eventually feed the pollen back to the bees, why go through the trouble of collecting it in the first place? Regards, Barry ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:31:51 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Missing Andy... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bee List Members, At the winter slowdown, there is more time for reflection, and one thought often comes back, the thought of Andy Nachbaur, whose passing almost two years ago took a lot of spice out of the Bee List. Opinionated but very intelligent, Andy kept us all on our toes. You didn't have to agree with him to like and respect him for his real caring for the bees, and his vast knowledge from years of experience. Andy was also a pioneer in online apiculture. Andy, It ain't the same without you! Curiously, Andy lived on in cyberspace. His web page, frozen in time, just as he left it, was still online until just a few days ago. He must have prepaid his account for quite a while. Sadly that resource has now disappeared as well. It's like a second death. There were still some resources available there. I tried accessing a copy of the site via Google's cache, but they only have a partial first page. Does anyone else know if any full copies of the site have been preserved? I shoulda, I know, while it was available.... Some of Andy's thoughts and the tributes after his death can still be accessed by searching his name at the Bee List archives search engine at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l Dave Green Janitor, Clerk, and Bottlewasher The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:44:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ham Morton Subject: Re Queening My question is during requeening do you eliminate the host bees in the queen cage or leave them in the cage? Thanks in advance!! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:14:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Pollen Collection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry Birkey, who runs one of the truly great web sites on beekeeping, asks "Can you please share with us why you feel every beekeeper should collect some pollen?" Honeybees more or less collect pollen "as they need it". This is different from nectar collection, where they store enormous quantities for future use. In his great book, The Wisdom of the Hive, Tom Seeley documents that when bees have stored a certain quantity (at the moment, I can't recall what that quantity is) of pollen they "turn off" pollen collection (regardless of availability) and change to nectar collection. Tom documents how this has been measured and duplicated by scientists. They store about a 2-week supply before they "turn off", or decrease levels to what is necessary to replace daily use. (ok, ok, they sometimes plug out with pollen, and that is explainable, but lets not quibble.) How the bees measure the supply of pollen in a hive is fascinating, but I won't get into it right now. Given that bees will not sore a six-month supply of pollen, as they will nectar, all beekeepers should collect some pollen because: 1. At times of the year, pollen dearth's can occur. These will result in cessation or substantial reduction of brood rearing, and may come when beekeepers are trying to expand the brood nest. Feeding pollen patties is a quick easy way to maintain brood rearing. 2. All beekeepers should have at least one nuc on standby in case something unexpected happens to their hives. I have seen it recommended that beekeepers maintain a minimum of one standby nuc, or one per five hives, whichever is more. Many beekeepers fail when establishing nucs, and I believe one of the primary reasons is that they fail to feed the nuc enough pollen. (While all the books say to give nucs at least 2 frames with honey and pollen (or one with honey and one with pollen), when I have inspected hobbyist nucs I almost always find that not enough pollen has been supplied. Pollen cakes are the answer and should almost always be fed to nucs until they start to draw and fill foundation. 3. Most of us do not have to feed honey/syrup to get bees through the winter, as we can leave them with enough stores. However, many hives do not carry enough pollen through the winter, and a pollen feeding in very early spring works wonders! In fact, Tom Seeley feels that incoming pollen is what triggers brood expansion in the spring, and several scientists have documented the enormous beneficial effect of feeding spring pollen, as a matter of course. After some 35 years I continue to learn beekeeping, and one of the most striking of my recent lessons has been how many commercial beekeepers regularly feed pollen or pollen+pollen supplements. (Allen Dick has some great observations on this at his web site.) Many or most commercial beekeepers would not think of getting through a spring without feeding pollen cakes, yet the practice has not been widely suggested to hobbyists and sideliners. (To be fair, Nick Calderone did recently in a Bee Culture article.) I now always feed nucs pollen, and I produce over 100 a year. Last year I also fed to some 40 colonies that I wanted to produce comb honey on, after taking splits, and was very pleased with the results. They produced so much brood that taking substantial splits did not seem to slow them down for early comb honey. So, IMHO all beekeepers should collect pollen for feeding. Then there is the subject of eating and selling pollen. Not selling pollen is leaving money in the streets...but I am tired of typing and that will be for later. Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:09:22 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Re Queening Ham Morton asks "during requeening do you eliminate the host bees in the queen cage or leave them in the cage?" I have done it both ways and it has worked both ways. Some say that there is a hazard that the bees in the hive may accidentally sting the queen to death while trying to kill her attendants. Your mileage may vary depending upon the temperament of the hive. Sometimes very aggressive bees may be more likely to try and kill the workers and possibly the queen when the queen cage is first put in. In a case like that, I might remove the workers first. Mostly I just put the cage in with the attendants still in it, and (although maybe I'm just lucky) I've never had a problem doing that. I've had a successful intro- duction every time as long as I successfully removed or killed the queen that was previously in there. I usually try and leave the hive queenless for 24 hours previous to introducing the new queen because I think the bees are more receptive that way. Results can vary depending on the race and temperament of the bees being requeened. Have fun and best wishes for success. Layne Westover, College Station, Texas, U.S.A. (a small piece of cotton with water in it replenished at least once a day can keep the queen and her attendants alive for some time if waiting on inclement weather or other problems. I never kill the old queen until I have received the new one in the mail and made sure she is in good shape, and then I wait 24 hours before introducing the new queen. I must not be a commercial beekeeper.) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:54:04 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: alacat Subject: Re: Missing Andy... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dave and the list, I too share with you and many others, certainly, the loss of the "Old Drone". I also miss his insights, wry sense of humor and his knowledge and experience. I had bookmarked his web page and looked at it about three ago. It was good to refresh myself on his knowledge. I was surprised to see it was still online and I am really sorry to read it is no longer available for us to learn from. Thanks for letting us know. The Good Book says, "In my Father's house are many mansions..." I suspect Andy might say there are lots of hives too. Nice thought. Lawrence "David L. Green" wrote: Dear Bee List Members Andy, It ain't the same without you! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:26:06 -0800 Reply-To: gregoire@endor.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Ernest J. Gregoire" Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Matt, You did not say where your are going to keep the bees. Deep south, New England, Hawaii? It makes a difference. I live in New England and they are the best bees for this area. Ernie Gregoire. Grist Mill Apiry. Canaan, Nh ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 23:56:42 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Principle of Precaution MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this principle being well used when applied to beekeeping affairs? Debates relating to antibiotic applications polarize from extremes of using them whilst they are still useful to points of view stating that they should not be used at all, through to the opinions of using them sparingly - taking into account the pros. and cons.. In this case and as in many others the application of the "Principle of Precaution" has levels of effect depending on the starting position of the argument. If one starts at the "never should be used" position then the principle means- "beware, don't use.". If the start point is "use with care", the principle means "use but watch what happens.". If the start point is "they should be used when ever possible", then the principle means "use but in an uncontrolled fashion until they are of little or no use.". This principle may be applied to pesticides - but how? - many sides to the argument and therefore starting positions. Those who need to use pesticides to protect their livelihoods (farmers etc.)and those who are possibly affected by non intended damage - bee colonies that are poisoned. The principle is put into operation to protect humans (extensive testing) - I suppose most people will agree with that!, but at what level should it be applied to protect bees - straight away the principle is weakened by economic arguments. Few companies, if any are willing to state that such and such product doesn't damage humans but will at a certain level damage bees, so looking at the overall economic gain bees loose out - tough on you beekeepers. Here instead of precaution use the word risk! Beekeepers present at the moment low risk to agro-chemical manufacturers - we are financially weak and often disparate. The result is the undermining of present day protections that are in place. Difficulties in getting proper toxicological studies underway. Also the great difficulty in bringing to light and getting accepted as fact any problems associated with un-intentional pesticide damage. Should beekeepers continue to accept that they are on the wrong end of risk assessment and start insisting that "the principle of precaution" is applied automatically? AND is held in place until proven safe to remove it - especially when referring to the introduction of pesticides. At the moment it is often the other way around. Instead of the manufacturer proving it is safe, and whilst doing so, having the principle of precaution in place, materials are presented with risk assessment attached, often then approved leaving beekeepers to prove when damage occurs that it is not safe !! Entering the stage is the problem of SUB LETHAL TOXICITY - not often tested for when viewing bees! HOW OR SHOULD WE AS A GROUP ENSURE THAT "THE PRINCIPLE OF PRECAUTION" IS APPLIED TO THIS PROBLEM ? Analytical methods now allow for the detection of highly toxic pesticides at levels where previously no detection was possible, and at these levels sub lethal intoxication disrupts bee colony organization. Previously pesticide manufacturers did not have to take this into account - will they now? It is obviously not in their direct interest to do so. I hope that I am proven incorrect and they start to apply "THE PRINCIPLE OF PRECAUTION". Peter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:44:43 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: Re Queening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Ham & All, Ham wrote: My question is during requeening do you eliminate the host bees in the queen cage or leave them in the cage? I prefer to introduce the queen without attemdents. I order my queens without attendents in a battery box(not car battery). Removing the attendents from a normal introduction cage is not tricky once you get the hang of it. In front of a window works good. After the attendents are all on the window open the window and release the attendents. Don't remove the attendents till you are ready to install the queens and don't leave a queen out of a hive without attendents. I keep queens in a battery box, queen bank(without attendents) or install right away on arrival. NEVER do I let them sit around . Make your nucs up before your queens come. I have installed queens in the rain and with snow on the ground. I wouldn't make nucs up then but I certainly would install queens. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:47:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: workerbee@HONEYROAD.COM Organization: My Beekeeping Homepape: http://www.honeyroad.com Subject: Re: Re Queening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Go into a small, dark room with a window (i use our bathroom, make sure to out the lid down on the toilet if you do!) Release all of the bees out of the cage through the small corked hole. Then you can snag the queen, mark her and put her back in. Open the window and let the attendant fly out. Now you have less chance of speading anything they might be carrying. Allen Banks Honey Road Apiaries Ham Morton wrote: > My question is during requeening do you eliminate the host bees in the > queen cage or leave them in the cage? > > Thanks in advance!! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 03:39:31 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Re: Pollen traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Barry. You asked Lloyd but let me give you an answer which might be different from his. Where I live in Seattle, my bees load up several frames of pollen in excess of what they use (currently and overwinter). I began using traps just to keep that surplus pollen out of my hive. I get from one to two gallons of pollen per year that way! Obviously, that is not your problem or you wouldn't have asked! Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 03:24:15 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Ham. Permit me to make a pitch for a "Thurber Long Cage". This is folded up from 1/8" hardware cloth, 3/8" (outside dimension) thick (be quite precise), about 1 1/2" wide, several inches long. Whittle wood plugs for the ends. Remove the queen from the shipping cage, dispense with the attendants, mark her, and place her in the Long Cage. The key point is that the width fills the space between adjacent drawn combs - NOT foundation - so that aggressive hive bees cannot get to the queen. After making the hive queenless for a day or two (or more) in advance, insert the Long Cage between two adjacent frames, preferably ones with brood. A day later, remove the cage and release the queen onto a frame top bar. (Try hard not to let bees into the cage with her or she may take a long time coming out.) I've been doing this for years and have never had a problem. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 06:57:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Re Queening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Like many who have responded, I have done it both ways and see little difference. One other way to remove the workers is take some wire window screen, roll it into a cylinder about ten or so inches long and big enough to get your arm easily through it. Cover the ends with cloth to extend the cylinder. Big rubber bands or string work fine to hold the cloth over the screen. If you want it permanent, glue it. Then just put the cage in the cylinder, arms in both ends and you can handle the operation no matter where you are. You will look like a scientist/doctor handing hazardous material in a miniature isolation room. And bare handed at that. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 07:40:09 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05055 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:40:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00183 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:43:03 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141243.HAA00183@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:42:59 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0101B" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 139527 Lines: 2976 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:34:43 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Re: resistance to tetracycline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bonjour from France, Regarding George Imire's comments about G.M.crops etc.. Maybe in his view the best people to investigate are the prof. bee scientists but those scientists that I am in contact with value very much the points of view raised by beekeepers. Often considering it moral support - which they may not be receiving from the establishment. Also letting "real beekeepers teach...... the beehavers...." is more than a touch presumptuous. Many a development has arisen from un-informed individuals - in some quarters it maybe called "brain storming" . A problem with pure research is that it often results in the concerned individuals being so tied up or aloft from the real pressures of hands on reality that they can be floating above or around it. The academic establishment need us as much as we need them - they need our thoughts and comments and we need their results. They are not in contact with the bees in real conditions for most of the time and often do not have the same feel for the bees nor what is happening in a hive. For a researcher a bee's "tremble dance" is a sign of actual intoxication to somebody actually working in the field - who's making the mistake? Keep the comments coming in as it is a sign of discussion that is informing. Regards to all Peter ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 20:16:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Coyle Subject: Pollen Traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for plans on the net for building a pollen trap, can any one help? I know there are different styles, what are the pros and cons of each. Thanking you in advance. -- Ken coyle@golden.net http://home.golden.net/~coyle ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 21:43:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Carrigan Subject: Request for help Fixing leaking wooden frame feeders In-Reply-To: <200012291722.MAA26850@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi, I have a large number of leaking frame feeders. 1/8 inch tempered hardboard sides, glued with I assume is polyurethane glue. They were made quite a few years ago by Blue Heron Enterprises in Alberta. I hate to throw them away. I have had a number of ideas on how to seal them, from dipping in melted wax to removing the hardboard and reinstalling new sides. (may be cheaper or more cost effiecient to just build new ones). Any ideas others may have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. -- Christopher Carrigan Arras, BC V0C 1B0 carrigan@mac.com carrigan@pris.bc.ca http://www.pris.bc.ca/cjvc ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 20:17:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Coyle Subject: Creamed Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I made some creamed honey which turned out fine. However after sitting on the shelf for 2 to 3 weeks it went hard. It was fine up till then. I used the Dyce method, I bought creamed honey from the store and used a 10% starter and after it was done it was stored it at room temperature. -- Ken coyle@golden.net http://home.golden.net/~coyle ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:13:02 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: resistance to tetracycline In-Reply-To: <200101072219.RAA04217@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I think it possible that we have been saved from resistance because we > have used the OTC in syrup solutions which are fairly ineffective. > They would leave a large proportion of non-resistant spores which > would outproduce the (presumably) less efficient organisms with the > superfluous resistance mechanism. When we got the patties which keep > the OTC effective for longer periods, the nonresistant organisms would > be wiped out leaving only the resistant ones to reproduce. This is an interesting interpretation. My understanding has always been that OTC has no effect whatsoever on spores and its only action is in inhibiting vegetative growth. Nonetheless, this appears to be basically the same speculation that has been going around all along. This theory -- and it is only a theory -- makes assumptions that sound plausible, but are AFAIK totally unproven. Widespread acceptance of this story is impeding proper understanding of what is really happening and determining an optimal response in 1.) affected areas, and 2.) non-infected areas. Since it seems no one else has or will undertake this project, today we have initiated contacts to 1.) try to determine if DNA profiles would show if more than one unique episodes of new resistance have occurred, and 2.) if we can gather the necessary samples and get the analysis done. Also: I had promised a long time back when I posted the original question that I would eventually make a post to analyse how OTC works against AFB and whether spores can be generated and have their numbers increase in hives that are being properly and successfully treated with OTC, in light of some research papers that a friend provided to me. I still remember this promise, and will try to get around to it after ABF, but it will take a little careful work. allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:21:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Requesting Advice on Hygienic Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are planning some work this coming year requiring obtaining and/or raising hygienic queens. We plan to try to evaluate this approach, and others, against traditional medication regimes in hives that have some history of AFB. Although we specify 'hygienic', we are aware that what we really want is 'AFB resistant'. We are looking for pointers on costs, methods, suggestions as to stock, open mating vs, AI, etc. Additionally, we are looking for ideas as to how to best get uniformity in hygienic or anti-AFB characteristics, since any individual queen showing a lack of a minimum level of the trait could compromise her hive if this becomes a line of defence. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ Playing Red Rover with AFB ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:28:44 +0800 Reply-To: ilogmria@cav.pworld.net.ph Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Joel F. Magsaysay" Subject: Re: Request for help Fixing leaking wooden frame feeders In-Reply-To: <200101080639.BAA13835@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher, I used to use a lot of wooden frame feeders. They will leak. The cheapest and least bothersome thing to do wil be to dip them in molten paraffin wax. Keep them submerged fo 1 or 2 minutes to allow the hot wax to seep in. If they continue to leak, try a longer dip time. Fashion some tongs as wood equipment will tend to float. Then New Zealanders have a hinged grate which keeps the wood equipment under and frees your hands for other work. It will be good to have a drip tray on which excess wax can drip and flow back into the dip tank. Joel F. Magsaysay ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE FARMS Cavite, Highlands Philippines joel@ilogmaria.com 063 - 46 - 865 - 0018 (home phone) 063 - 917 - 502 - 7538 (Joel's cell phone) 063 - 917 - 477 - 2194 (Voilaine's cell phone) 063 - 912 - 318 - 7517 (Home cell phone) -----Original Message----- From: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology [mailto:BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu]On Behalf Of Christopher Carrigan Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 12:44 PM To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: Request for help Fixing leaking wooden frame feeders Hi, I have a large number of leaking frame feeders. 1/8 inch tempered hardboard sides, glued with I assume is polyurethane glue. They were made quite a few years ago by Blue Heron Enterprises in Alberta. I hate to throw them away. I have had a number of ideas on how to seal them, from dipping in melted wax to removing the hardboard and reinstalling new sides. (may be cheaper or more cost effiecient to just build new ones). Any ideas others may have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. -- Christopher Carrigan Arras, BC V0C 1B0 carrigan@mac.com carrigan@pris.bc.ca http://www.pris.bc.ca/cjvc ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:44:34 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Esad Cancar Subject: Re: Pollen Traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Ken! I am looking for polen traps too. Until now i found many tips. But, the most intresting is one kind polen traps hidden in botom board. A beekeeper made it after 25 years of beekeeping proficiency. This week, I hope, I`ll visit him & take picture. If you found any sutible, please, send me drawing or picture or web address. All inovation is wellcome. Best regards! Esad Bosnia & Herzegowina ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 08:39:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "john f. mesinger" Subject: Re: re Moving Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Among all of the bees I have tried, one time they were Midnite hybrids - known to be gentle [but susceptible to Nosema]. While installing, seven bees got in my bonnet. All flocked to the veil to get out. None stung. If I could only remember how I smelled to them that day, I would duplicate it with more assertive bees. John F. Mesinger jfm6f@unix.mail.virginia.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 07:32:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Matthew W." Subject: Re: feral comb above an excluder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What Dan says about the tossing the brood/feral comb above an excluder works but I would caution the beekeeper on timely removal of the super with comb. You must remove the comb immediately after the last brood hatches or the bees will waste alot of energy building every inch of that box with wax and nectar. If the queen squeezes through the excluder you'll have a REALLY tough time sending her down onto your foundation below. I have 2 or 3 hives that have 'beaten me' and kept a box or two of feral comb for years because I haven't convinced the queen to lay onto my frames...yet. Treating for varroa is really a problem in those hives among other issues. If you're certain the queen is below the excluder (check for 1-day old eggs) you could try a method I've experimented with: Move your comb higher and higher above the excluder and queen/newfoundation using empty deeps (no frames) as spacers. Bees will eventually rob out the feral comb above since it is too far away from the broodnest. Sometimes you'll end up with 3 deeps between comb and queen. This only works when the weather is warm and you have to be certain there's no cracks nor upper entrance for outside robbers to visit. A few years ago when I only had 15-20 hives I made the practice of placing feral comb on the perch of hives for robbing and was cautioned against this practice by several beekeepers. I didn't see the threat so continued with this practice. Now I understand robbing a bit better and would strongly caution anyone against placing comb on the front of their hives. Robbing can be a tough habit to break once they get started. You might end up fighting with bees instead of managing all summer long. Matthew Westall dan hendricks wrote: > I have done this several times and it works just fine. > In three weeks all the brood will have hatched and the wall comb can > be > Dan > -- // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:11:25 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: feral comb above an excluder Comments: cc: beesting@qwest.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/8/01 9:33:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, beesting@QWEST.NET writes: <> There is a simple solution that *usually* works. In the spring (or at least during a flow), put a box of comb under the upside-down box of wild comb. As soon as you find brood in the lower box, smoke the upper to increase the odds that the queen is run down, and get an excluder in there. Queens are reluctant to lay in upside-down comb. Of course the bees will eventually tear down the comb to the midrib and build it right-side up, but the convenience of the comb just below her brood area will usually get her down quickly. <> Agreed. I have about come to the point of never using robbing as a method, simply because so many bees die when it happens, all with their honey stomachs full, of course. This waste is not the only reason, but it is enough to make me very reluctant to allow robbing at all. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 08:53:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Pollen Traps In-Reply-To: <200101081315.IAA17773@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I am looking for pollen traps too. Until now I found many tips. But, the most > ... If you found any suitable, please, send me drawing or picture or web > address. All innovation is welcome. BeeGadgets@egroups.com is a low volume, open list where pictures of bee-related gizmos and gadgets can be sent with messages or placed in the files by members. (BEE-L only accepts text messages). To subscribe to BeeGadgets, sent email to BeeGadgets-subscribe@onelist.com allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:06:27 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: speculation Greetings! Recently we have had our discussions described as pedantic and speculative. pedantic Characterized by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for book learning and formal rules. speculation 1. a. Contemplation or consideration of a subject; meditation; contemplation of a profound nature. b. A conclusion, an opinion, or a theory reached by conjecture. c. Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition. Sometimes going to the book is instructive. The term speculate has been eroded over the years to mean "wooly thinking", but formerly it described the true nature of human thought, which was an intelligent looking into a problem -- precisely the one thing that humans (and not machines) are capable of doing. If we don't do the thinking, we must depend on the conclusions of others, who may be engaged in the other kind of speculation: 2. Engagement in risky business transactions on the chance of quick or considerable profit. Peter Borst Ithaca NY USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:21:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: Pollen Traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken Coyle wrote: > I am looking for plans on the net for building a pollen trap, can any > one help? I know there are different styles, what are the pros and cons > of each.-- We've used variants of the OAC (Ontario Agricultural College) trap here in Tucson, Arizona for decades, and have always been satisfied with it. I believe there are plans online (?). As for cons, if you are in rainy areas, a screen bottom in the pollen tray is a good idea. Try to avoid pollen trays that pull out from the hive front - the bees don't like that. Side trays are workable, but rear access trays will allow the hives to be closer together, and generally work out better. The disadvantage of the full-size traps is that the whole hive has to be taken apart for the initial installation, but after that, there are ways to slide out or tip up the screen, and the trap body stays in place - the metal screen can also help keep mice out. The actual pollen-removal screen that the bees crawl through is usually metal, either hardware cloth (wire mesh) or punched holes in metal sheets (our favorite). Dead bee traps are incorporated in the trap body sometimes, and allow monitoring of mortality levels in the hive, and also chalkbrood "mummies". Some traps (OAC,) have built-in drone escapes - these usually work out fine, and keep dead drones from building up on the bottomboard. There are also "external" traps, which attach to the main entrance or at a gap between boxes above the entrance. They are not usually as efficient, and tend to be fragile. ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards "Feral Bee Tracker and AHB Identifier" Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona 85719 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:52:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: OAC Pollen Trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Esad Cancar wrote: > If you found any suitable, please, send me drawing or picture or web > address. All inovation is wellcome. > Best regards! > Esad > Bosnia & Herzegowina There are three photos at http://www.fao.org/docrep/w0076e/w0076e10.htm (near the bottom of the page). ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona 85719 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:53:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Bozard, Charles Emmett (Mick)" Subject: Any Arizona Beekeepers ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi everybody, i will be visiting my sister in Sierra Vista, Arizona and was wondering anybody out there bee interested in letting us visit your apiary ? thanks mick bozard in soth carolina ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:33:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: OAC Pollen Trap It is interesting that although there are some photographs of parts of pollen traps, and there are discussions and descriptions of pollen traps and their use on the Internet, I have not ever seen any "plans" to build a pollen trap anywhere I have looked. I have not looked recently, but the last time I looked I could not find any. I think we currently have an unmet need here. Layne Westover College Station, Texas, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 22:38:01 +0100 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home sweet home Subject: Re: OAC Pollen Trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Musashi wrote: > ..........................nd descriptions of pollen traps and their > use on the Internet, I have not ever seen any "plans" to build a pollen trap > anywhere I have looked. so.. you didnot find..... http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/ChiliPolVal.html or http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/Chili8.html regards, Jan -- Jan Tempelman Kerkstraat 53 NL 7471 AG Goor xx.31.(0)547.275788 mobile: 06 10719917 -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:36:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: Re: Requesting Advice on Hygienic Queens Comments: To: allend@INTERNODE.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Allen, Here is a site with some mode of action info on imidacloprid: ipmworld.umn.edu/chapters/bloomq.htm Regards Adony Adony Melathopoulos Apiculture Biotechnologist Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada Beaverlodge Research Farm Box CP 29 Beaverlodge, Alberta CANADA T0H 0C0 T +1 780 354 5130 F +1 780 354 8171 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 21:14:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael W Stoops Subject: Re: AFB - GM crop connection possible Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >From: Blane White > yes the resistance was first documented in areas > where roundup-ready soybeans were planted. QUESTION: Which came first, the round-up ready soybeans or the AFB resistant strain? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 08:43:29 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: resistant AFB Long-term exposure to Terramycin or improper dosage levels apparently created the bacterial resistance. ... patties did provide the means by which the antibiotic could be kept in the hive for many weeks or longer. It has been reported that some beekeepers kept patties inside their colonies for several months to a year. Leaving treatment materials in a hive longer than the label recommends is not a good idea since it represents a violation of the label and can contribute to the development of bacterial resistance to Terramycin Applying Terramycin in a powdered sugar mix has always been a convenient method of administering the antibiotic. However, when the treatment schedule is erratic and the bees consume all of the antibiotic before the brood nest has been properly cleaned, the amount of AFB cycles up and down, but the disease is never well-controlled. This type of imprecise treatment along with low doses or outdated Terramycin probably contributed to the development of resistance in P. larvae. excerpt from article by Dr. Bill Wilson, in Bee Culture, Oct 2000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:10:57 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: OAC Pollen Trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All I do not know what OAC stands for. Pollen trapping has been part of my routine for 18/19 years. I have no drawings available yet, but it is my intention to draw up my system and put it on my website. I will briefly outline it... My floors have a mesh panel in them (originally a travel screen) but more recently used for varroa monitoring with a slide in tray. To use them for pollen collecting...the tray is replaced by a drawer with fine nylon mesh as a bottom panel. I then place a "stripping screen" between the brood box and the floor. The stripper is built like an inner cover but with a plastic pollen stripper insert that has star shaped holes in it. This insert is above the centre of the mesh that is in the floor. I use two porter escapes for bee and drone exit. I make no provision for drone return...They will find residence in other colonies. In use the bees enter through the normal entrance but can only get to the colony by crawling through the star shaped holes. the stripped pellets of pollen fall through the mesh to the drawer below. The fine nylon mesh bottom to the drawer gives enough ventillation to stop the pollen going mouldy. When I have drawn this all up I will post it on "Bee Gadgets" List. Regards Dave Cushman ----- Original Message ----- From: Musashi > I could not find any. I think we currently have an unmet need here. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:25:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Wave Goodbye to Tucson BeeLab MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tuesday, Jan. 9, 2001 The Tucson Bee Lab staff was informed this morning that the entire Tucson bee research program will be tranferred to Weslaco, Texas. Last working day in Tucson will be March 23, 2001. All permanent employees ( 4 scientists, 2 technicians ) are being given directed transfers to Weslaco, or separation by retirement or resignation. This brings the almost fifty-year history of the Tucson Lab to an end. -- John ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Agricultural Research Service - USDA Tucson, Arizona 85719 http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/edwards.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:03:05 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Resistant AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I recall reading an article in either the American Bee Journal or Bee = Culture many years ago about AFB in Russia becoming resistant to = Oxytetracycline hydrochloride. Have not been able to find it since. = Maybe the editors of these journals can help us out with the reference = as I know they are both Bee-ler's. I am sure this pre-dated the Argentinean situation. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 21:12:53 -0000 Reply-To: "kidd@uni-hohenheim.de" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew Kidd Subject: Nicaragua Does anyone know of any contacts and information related to beekeeping or bee product marketing in (or from) Nicaragua? We are doing a study of poverty, vulnerability and extension and will use some topics (one of them bee products) to look at the issue through. Fieldwork will be in Vietnam, Uganda and Nicaragua. We have some info in Vietnam and Uganda, but nothing on Nicaragua. Indeed if someone has info or contacts on the other two countries, they would also be welcome. Thanks. Andy Kidd. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 13:16:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: OAC Pollen Trap I believe that OAC means "Ontario Agricultural College" where the design for this particular pollen trap was developed. I did a search today on the Web and discovered some plans for the OAC Pollen Trap at the following address: http://www.ag.uiuc.edu/~vista/html_pubs/BEEKEEP/CHAPT2/2-20.gif There is also text in Chapter 2 which explain the construction and operation. This information is helpful, as are the plans in Jan Tempelman's web site which he referred to yesterday. Andy Nachbaur's web site has an "online publication" called "Golden Harvest" that explains all about how pollen traps can be constructed and used, but has no plans per se. After having made my own pollen trap based on my readings and on plans I found in one of Eva Crane's books (the big one, I forget the title), and used it for a year (and it worked O.K.), I ordered a trap from Stauffer's Beehives and Pollen Traps that was recommended to me as the best pollen trap available on the market. Having received that trap and examined it closely, I concur that it is probably the best designed pollen trap I have ever seen and I look forward to using it this coming season. You can get the address to Stauffer's by doing a search in the BEE-L archives. I understand, though that Paul Martin (I believe is the proprietor's name) does not have a telephone and turnaround time can be slow. I hope this information is helpful. I didn't list all the web sites to which I referred above, but they can be easily found by searching the BEE-L archives at http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l Layne Westover College Station, Texas, U.S.A. (Stauffer's is in Pennsylvania, Port Trevorton, I believe) p.s. there was sure a dearth of information available on the web the last time I looked, and there's more now, but even more would be helpful if beekeepers are willing to share their ideas and plans in this area. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:21:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Coleene E. Davidson" Subject: RFD TV Programming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, There is a new network available on the Satellite TV system I use. It = is called RFD TV and is based in Texas. The programming is aimed at = agruculture and rural living. While watching, the program manager = requested suggestions for future programming. I sent and e-mail = suggesting Beekeeping programming-citing current issues affecting = beekeepers nation wide. The reply from him was: "If you are aware of any programming available on this subject please = forward to my attention, and we will air it ASAP." Patrick Gottsch RFDPATRICK@aol.com Although I am sure the viewing audience is small, I beleive it is a = promotional opportunity. Does anyone have any suggestions that on taped = programming that would suite this forum. Coleene Davidson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:16:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Research Center, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: Wave Goodbye to Tucson BeeLab MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've had a request for the lab phone number, in case you want to talk to Dr. Erickson about the implications of this closure. (520) 670-6380 Eric's extension is 104 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:31:02 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Hamilton Subject: Queen Rearing and Master Beekeeping Sessions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Allan .. for you AFB resistance breeding project This year they are in Nebraska at the Mead, NE bee lab. Marla Spivak will do a Queen Rearing Workshop from June 27-28 8am - 6pm Marion Ellis and others will do a Master Beekeeping Workshop June 28-30 from 8am - 7pm if your new here we also have Beginning Beekeeping in Kearney, NE Feb 20 & 22 Beginning Beekeeping in Omaha, NE March 5 & 7 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 05:10:39 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Stauffer's pollen traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have been using several Stauffer's traps for many years and am delighted with them. You used to be able to special order ones with a single round-hole punched plate stripper instead of two 5 per inch screens in series but they are no longer available. John Innanuzzi (sp?) reported he had sampled all avaiable traps and considered these the best. Their principal superiority (I think) is 10 escape cones and forager access through slots which extend across the front and both sides. I have found delivery by mail to be reasonably prompt. I can't supply the mailing address because circumstances have caused me to be spending the winter in Guam instead of in my home in Seattle. Sigh. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:59:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: RFD TV Programming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are some excellent beekeeping tapes available that, with the permission or payment to the author, would be perfect. I like The Honey Harvest. There are also a lot of How To tapes that show up in Bee Culture, ABJ and other pubs that the authors might want to get more exposure. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:55:54 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Fox Subject: demaree splits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit need info. on which old issue of ABJ had article & illustrations on demaree splits. can anyone help? thanks, frank fox ffox@genesco.com >>> Musashi 01/09 1:16 PM >>> I believe that OAC means "Ontario Agricultural College" where the design for this particular pollen trap was developed. I did a search today on the Web and discovered some plans for the OAC Pollen Trap at the following address: http://www.ag.uiuc.edu/~vista/html_pubs/BEEKEEP/CHAPT2/2-20.gif There is also text in Chapter 2 which explain the construction and operation. This information is helpful, as are the plans in Jan Tempelman's web site which he referred to yesterday. Andy Nachbaur's web site has an "online publication" called "Golden Harvest" that explains all about how pollen traps can be constructed and used, but has no plans per se. After having made my own pollen trap based on my readings and on plans I found in one of Eva Crane's books (the big one, I forget the title), and used it for a year (and it worked O.K.), I ordered a trap from Stauffer's Beehives and Pollen Traps that was recommended to me as the best pollen trap available on the market. Having received that trap and examined it closely, I concur that it is probably the best designed pollen trap I have ever seen and I look forward to using it this coming season. You can get the address to Stauffer's by doing a search in the BEE-L archives. I understand, though that Paul Martin (I believe is the proprietor's name) does not have a telephone and turnaround time can be slow. I hope this information is helpful. I didn't list all the web sites to which I referred above, but they can be easily found by searching the BEE-L archives at http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l Layne Westover College Station, Texas, U.S.A. (Stauffer's is in Pennsylvania, Port Trevorton, I believe) p.s. there was sure a dearth of information available on the web the last time I looked, and there's more now, but even more would be helpful if beekeepers are willing to share their ideas and plans in this area. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:54:38 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Fox Subject: demaree splits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit several yrs. ago came across article on demaree splits & cannot find it in my magazine library. i THINK it was an issue of ABJ. can anyone help? it was a pretty good one & included visual aids as well as a detailed description (demaree for dummies!). can anyone point me in the right direction? i have 7 yrs.' worth of back issues. i am just not seeing the article. thank you, frank fox nashville, tn ffox@genesco.com >>> Dave Cushman 01/09 9:10 AM >>> Hi All I do not know what OAC stands for. Pollen trapping has been part of my routine for 18/19 years. I have no drawings available yet, but it is my intention to draw up my system and put it on my website. I will briefly outline it... My floors have a mesh panel in them (originally a travel screen) but more recently used for varroa monitoring with a slide in tray. To use them for pollen collecting...the tray is replaced by a drawer with fine nylon mesh as a bottom panel. I then place a "stripping screen" between the brood box and the floor. The stripper is built like an inner cover but with a plastic pollen stripper insert that has star shaped holes in it. This insert is above the centre of the mesh that is in the floor. I use two porter escapes for bee and drone exit. I make no provision for drone return...They will find residence in other colonies. In use the bees enter through the normal entrance but can only get to the colony by crawling through the star shaped holes. the stripped pellets of pollen fall through the mesh to the drawer below. The fine nylon mesh bottom to the drawer gives enough ventillation to stop the pollen going mouldy. When I have drawn this all up I will post it on "Bee Gadgets" List. Regards Dave Cushman ----- Original Message ----- From: Musashi > I could not find any. I think we currently have an unmet need here. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:03:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: NW MI Horticultural Research Station Subject: Imidacloprid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed This announcement came into our office today: Imidacloprid, a Gustafson Insecticide - EPA Announces Receipt of a Gustafson Pesticide Petition Requesting that the Agency Establish Tolerances for Residues in or on the raw agricultural commodities: corn, field fodder; corn, field forage; and corn, field grain - Comments on the petition are due to EPA by February 5 - EPA Contact: Kerry Leifer, Registration Division, Office of Pesticide Programs at 703 308 8811; e-mail: leifer.kerry@epa.gov - EPA January 5 Federal Register: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=2001_register&docid=01-370-filed Alison Heins, Technician NW Michigan Horticultural Research Station 6686 S. Center Hwy, C.R. 633 Traverse City, MI 49684 Phone: 231/946-1510 Fax: 231/946-1404 email: nwmihort@msue.msu.edu Check the Station's web site at: http://www.maes.msu.edu/nwmihort ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:21:00 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Weight of Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was looking for the rule of thumb for how many bees per pound in package bees. I can't find it in my notes or in the Bee List archives. Can anyone help here? Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:16:13 +0100 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home sweet home Subject: Re: Stauffer's pollen traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dan hendricks wrote: > ......been using several Stauffer's traps....... Can some point my in that direction?????? regards, -- Jan Jan Tempelman Kerkstraat 53 NL 7471 AG Goor xx.31.(0)547.275788 mobile: 06 10719917 -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:38:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Malcolm (Tom) Sanford" Subject: Any help for Kazakhstan? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:05:36 -0500 To: "Jill D. Wright" From: "Dr. Malcolm (Tom) Sanford" Subject: Re: Beekeeping in Kazakhstan Cc: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDUs In-Reply-To: <001b01c07ab4$02029700$2e201f0c@sterrett0018> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Jill, Don't really know where to start. There are several Internet sites that feature international information: http://www.beekeeping.com/apiservices/index_us.htm http://www.beekeeping.com/bees-for-development/bees_and_development.htm http://www.apiconsult.com/index.html concentrates on Africa http://www.cf.ac.uk/ibra/ As for donations, you can try: http://bee.airoot.com/beeculture/ http://www.dadant.com/ http://www.beekeeping.com/thomas/index_us.htm Although internatinal expertise is important, most necessary will be finding beekeepers in the region who are successful and begin by doing what they are doing. I am sending this to the bee-l discussion list. Perhaps there is someone there who can help you. I am asking my colleagues on the list to communicate directly with Ms. Wright at sterrett@turbosurf.net Tom Sanford At 10:18 PM 1/9/01 -0500, you wrote: Dear Dr. Sanford, I have found your articles in Bee Culture to be very helpful. I have a very unique situation that I would appreciate your advise about. My family has some dear friends who are Christian missionaries to the Uighur people of Kazakhstan. They have begged my father and me for the last 2 years now to assist them by coming over for a short term mission trip to help a couple of the new believers there establish beekeeping as a home industry or small business. They are continually looking for opportunities to help the people learn to be self supportive and productive. This seems to be a difficult transition from relying on their former Communist government for jobs. They would like us to come this spring. I have a million questions before we can make a decision. They continue to assure me that they are not looking for expertise, just a bit of experience and the desire to be used of God. My understanding is that Kazakhstan is a former soviet republic that is mostly Muslim. Their location is near China at the same approximate latitude as the Great Lakes. Economic hardships are severe there and most of the merchandising is done at outdoor markets. The most common languages are Uighur, Russian and Kazakh. Some also speak Uzbek, Kirghiz, and Turkish. Gratefully, there will be interpreters available. We need to learn much more about the market in the Almaty, Kazakhstan area for bee products; prevalence of bee diseases; climate and foliage; local availability versus shipping involved to purchase bees, instructional material, supplies and equipment. It would be awful to start them on something that would be impossible to sustain. Would you have any advise on how to go about such a project? Where do we begin to find the information we need? Could you recommend anyone who has international beekeeping experience? Do you think any US companies would be willing to donate supplies for us to ship in advance? Perhaps you know some contacts that would be helpful. Would you be willing to be an email consultant if we do get over there and need some advise? Thanks for your help, Jill Wright, 6196 W US RT 224 FINDLAY, OH 45840 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:58:01 -0500 Reply-To: "Keith B. Forsyth" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Keith B. Forsyth" Subject: Re: Weight of Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: About 4000 per pound in weight. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:02:41 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Translation of French Agriculture Minister's position regarding "Gaucho" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As released by the Press Office of the French Minister of Agriculture: Jean GLAVANY received the beekeepers representatives - Paris, 09/01/2001 Jean GLAVANY, Minister of Agriculture and of Fisheries received on Tuesday 9th. January 2001 the representatives of the Coordination des Apiculteurs de France, as well as the representatives from the Federation Nationale des Syndicats d'Exploitants Agricoles and the Confédération paysanne (Farmers Unions). It was to state the position relating to the insecticide "Gaucho". Conforming to the Principle of Precaution, the use of this product on sunflower seed was subjected in January 1999 to a suspension in use for two years, until the results of studies defined the effects on honey bee populations. The Commission of Investigation into the toxicity of anti parasitic products used in agriculture found during the meeting of 13/12/2000 that the collection of assembled data did not allow for the formal and exclusive incrimination of sunflower seeds treated by the preparation "Gaucho", nor did it conclude in the absence of risk for bees. Before taking a new decision, the Minister has listened to the arguments put forward by the beekeepers who understandably wish to preserve the health and productivity of their hives. Jean GLAVANYrecalled that all decisions that may have an impact on health or the environment should be object to a profound risk evaluation. "If one has doubts, the Principle of Precaution should be applied. I shall ensure that that I have all the scientific, technical and legal guarantees before pronouncing on "Gaucho" as on all other pesticide products susceptible of having an impact on bees and other pollinating insects" declared the Minister on leaving the interview which took place in a cordial atmosphere. A decision will be taken, after advice from the Committee of Authorisation who shall meet on the subject on the 11th. January 2001, and after consultation with BAYER (product manufacturer) and the seed merchants. This is an un-official translation and should be taken as such. Peter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:40:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew olmstead Subject: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm thinking of getting some carniolans this spring and was = woundering what other beekeepers think of them? I now have 6 hives of = italians and have done well with them. Thanks , Matt ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:07:57 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lindahl, Larry AGF:EX" Subject: Apitheripy and Migraine Headaches MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT A friend of mine was asking if there was any apitherpy method that would relieve or cure migraine headaches? Is there any one on the list with experience in this regard? You may E-mail me directly or put it on the list. My E-mail address larry.lindahl@gems8.gov.bc.ca Cheers !! Larry ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:01:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: keastman Subject: Stauffers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The address in 1995 was Stauffer's Beehives Superior Pollen Traps RD 1 Box 489 Port Trevorton, PA 17864 I have one of the Stouffer's traps and it works well. It is very similar to the "Sundance" pollen trap by Ross Rounds. They both perform very much the same. I have one of each and have had good success with both of them. Ken Eastman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:27:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Burch Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Matt........ I have several hives each of the Italians, Starline, and Carniolans here in Western North Carolina.......... All three done real good last year but I did notice the Carniolans did not produce quite as much as the other two..... My Uncle in South Louisiana changed all his hives to Carniolans and he is very happy with the results....... It might depend on where you live as to how well the Carniolans do, someone else might have more information on that part....... Good luck this year Paul ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:34:59 -0500 Reply-To: beeman@kingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kent stienburg Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like them.:-) Kent ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:39:43 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: AFB resistance to Terramycin "Crisco patties with Terramycin are no longer recommended for use against American Foul Brood (AFB), European Foul Brood, and Tracheal mites. Please don't use this treatment to avoid development of resistance of AFB to terramycin. To date, we have not found AFB resistance to Terramycin in Ontario." from 2000 Ontario Recommendations for Honey Bee Disease Control http://www.ontariobee.com/disease.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:39:54 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: resistant AFB "Given the present regulatory climate concerning antibiotic use, the chances of developing alternative legal treatments for foulbrood are dicey at best. Fortunately, there are alternatives. ... Dr. Marla Spivak at the University of Minnesota asks beekeepers to consider investing in new foundation and hygienic queens rather than antibiotics. There may be greater payoffs in end, she says, resulting in healthier bees, and this can provide a good way to exit the chemical treadmill. Thus, she concludes, ... the last thing we need are more antibiotics for bees" -- excerpt from article by Tom Sanford, in Apis, Dec 2000 This is what many of us want: disease resistant stock. However, there are serious problems with such a scenario -- number one being supercedure. From my view, today's commercially produced queens are rapidly superceded, some within weeks or months of purchase. And for the beekeeper who raises his own queens in order to minimize supercedure, there arises the problem of lack of control over the drone line. Regular queens can cost US $10.00 and undoubtedly special lines will cost more. Can we afford to requeen every hive every year at that price -- to say nothing of the time and effort involved? No wonder beekeepers -- like other agriculturists -- want to be able to use antibiotics. There is no reason that the bee industry should be singled out and prevented from having access to a variety of antibiotics, just as we now have (in the US) at least three chemicals to use against mites (apistan, formic acid, coumaphos). "There is no registered treatment [in Canada] that will kill the resistant AFB. Beekeepers are faced with burning thousands of hives, millions of dollars in bees and equipment and hundreds of millions of dollars in lost pollination potential. Together with low honey prices this crisis may cause some beekeepers to consider bankruptcy, and many will give up keeping bees. It is a huge problem and one that will without doubt spread to other regions." -- excerpt from "American Foul Brood is Back" by Heather Clay, in Hive Notes, Nov 2000 posted by Peter Borst Ithaca NY USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:32:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Drones & Pollen Hello All, Can beekeepers in the Shreveport,Louisiana area tell me when they start getting spring tree pollen and also when they start seeing the first drones raised in their hives. I realize this varies from year to year so I am only looking for a *normal year* type answer. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:04:39 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Analysis of Apistan/Bayvarol induced fallen varroa Comments: To: IrishBeekeeping@listbot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All The Varroa Calculator devised by MAFF in the UK uses a multiplier to convert the number of naturally fallen varroa mites daily into an approximation of the number of mites in the hive. The value of the multiplier varies with the time of the year. I was wondering about the following: Does anybody know of any mathematical relationship between the number of mites which will fall as the result of the insertion for diagnosis of Apistan/Bayvarol strips, and the total number of mites in the hive? I ask this question for the following reason. Assume that I place Apistan or Bayvarol strips into a hive for diagnosis say in mid March (within 6 weeks of supering here in Dublin). If it were possible to work out the level of infestation from the number of fallen mites, I could then possibly use an IPM approach (entrapment using drone brood, Open Mesh Floor, etc), if the number were small and super the hive as normal. On the other hand if it were a severe infestation I could use Apistan/Bayvarol and delay supering the hive. Any comments most welcome. Sincerely Tom Barrett ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:08:28 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony N Morgan Organization: Sor-Trondelag College, Division of Electronic Engineering Subject: Biological control of foulbrood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Via Erik Osterlund in the BiologicalBeekeeping list: http://www.cf.ac.uk/biosi/research/biodiversity/staff/bnd.html Scroll down the page and read the research project summaries. Among others: "Development of a biological control method for the prevention and /or treatment of foulbrood in honey bees" -- Anthony N Morgan, Fřrsteamanuensis Institutt for Elektroteknikk Hřgskolen i Sřr-Trřndelag N-7005 Trondheim, Norway anthony@iet.hist.no Tlf. 73 55 96 04 Fax. 73 55 95 81 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 06:33:39 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: ARNOLD JONES Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii An interesting notion. I have five buckfast and five of the russian. The russian out produce the buckfast by several pounds. Same area, same water source, same nectar source. Has anyone written anything on preference of flowers with the various bee strains? Are there any climate or terrain corralations for the various strains. thank-you arnold jones ===== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:01:13 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: Small Bee Suit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a friend that has been hanging around for about a year since I put a hive of bees in his Dad's garden. He helps me with making supers & frames & stuff. He paints them all. He's 11 years old. He wants to get involved with the bees this spring and borrows all my bee books. I have an extra veil but it doesn't fit very well and his mother is concerned. She doesn't want to allow him to do this but I have convinced her that if I can get a bee suit or jacket, something with a veil or hood built on, that it will be all right. Well, these people don't have much and cannot afford to invest in this venture. Sooo...here's my plea. Does anyone out there have a used suit that has been out grown and are willing to part with at a minimal price? I hope someone has one laying around they don't use. If you can help, I'm at RASpiek@aol.com Richard Spiekhout South Central, Ky. USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:54:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: establishing hygenic stock Comments: To: john.gates@gems9.gov.bc.ca, alexnanc@isn.net, peterborst@persianarts.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Peter and Bee-L Adony Melathopoulos Apiculture Biotechnologist Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada Beaverlodge Research Farm Box CP 29 Beaverlodge, Alberta CANADA T0H 0C0 T +1 780 354 5130 F +1 780 354 8171 >>> Peter Borst 01/11 12:39 AM This is what many of us want: disease resistant stock. However, there are serious problems with such a scenario -- number one being supercedure. From my view, today's commercially produced queens are rapidly superceded, some within weeks or months of purchase. And for the beekeeper who raises his own queens in order to minimize supercedure, there arises the problem of lack of control over the drone line.>> A recently published paper address some of the concerns raised by Peter: Palacio, M.A., E. E. Figini, S.R. Ruffinengo, E.M. Rodriguez, M.L. del Hoyo and E. L. Bedascarrasbure. Changes in a population of Apis mellifera L. selected for hygenic behavior and its realation to brood disease tolerance. Apidologie. 31: 471--478. Abstract Honeybee colonies were evaluated for hygenic behavior using a pin-killed assay. Presence and absence of visual symptoms of brood diseases were recorded. Colonies that removed more than 80% of dead brood after 24 hours were selected for queen and drone production and new colonies were evaluated for hygenic behavior. This procedure was repeated yearly from 1992 through 1997.... Colonies were classified as hygenic and non-hygenic and these data were related to the incidence of brood diseases. Total hygenic behavior increased in the population after four years of selection on queens without mating control from 66.25% in 1992 to 84.56% in 1997. Hygenic colonies had a lower frequency of brood diseases when compared to non-hygenic colonies. It suggested that this trait can be used as a selection criterion in queen breeders' apiaries. The study suggests that beekeepers who practice yearly requeening can significatly raise the level of hygenic behavior in their colonies through selection of hygenic breeders and using open mating; that is WITHOUT isolated mating systems or artificial insemination. At the end of the study, after five years of selection, colonies with hygenic stock had significantly lower levels of AFB; unselected stock had 10.1% and selected stock had 1.8%. Admittedly, a requeening program as outlined in the study, is a long term investment, however with the drawbacks from relying on antibiotics, an investment which may prove prudent and wise. The problems with antibiotics are four; a) Resistance to antibiotics is very likely. b) Antibiotics can leave residues in honey and wax, which are illegal in many honey importing countries and can erode public confidence in the purity of hive products. c) The infective spores are unaffected by antibiotics and treatment does not reduce disease inoculum, d) Antibiotics tend to temporarily mask disease symptoms, making assessments of AFB infection among colonies difficult. Ontario, I have heard, is presently producing hygenic bee stocks. For more information visit: http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/crops/facts/info_honeybeequeen.htm Regards Adony ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:36:23 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: huestis Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Matt, My first question is where do you live? How much experience do you have? Their is a difference in management between carniolans and Italian colonies. Just because you have sucess with Italians doesn't mean you can't do the same with another race! Carniolans build up in the spring very rapidly and need in my opinion a little more care than italians. Here is a list of characteristics: 1.Rapid population build up 2.conserve honey stores 3.gentle(as long as they are well breed) 4.overwinter on smaller honey/pollen stores(until brood rearing begins) 5.rob less(they will if you allow it) 6.very white cappings(the best for comb honey in my opinion) 7.not much brace comb or propolis 8.forages well in inclement weather also a little farther 9. swarms if not given enough room 10. dark queen can be hard to find for some people(get her marked) For more info go to http://www.apiphyt.com/carnica/ Part of the joy of being a beekeeper is trying different things. So have a go with carniolans. I would keep them in three deep chambers. Reverse them in the normal way. Make a split with one of those deep boxes, super both as usual and recombine in the fall. This should make for very strong colonies in the spring and help with swarming. Good Luck. Clayton Huestis ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew olmstead To: Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 3:40 PM Subject: Carniolans > I'm thinking of getting some carniolans this spring and was = > woundering what other beekeepers think of them? I now have 6 hives of = > italians and have done well with them. > Thanks , Matt > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:43:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "john f. mesinger" Subject: Re: Carniolans In-Reply-To: <200101110028.TAA18636@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I switched to carniolans three years ago. The so-called Yugos were as bad as the car of that name. Those from Heitkam and Strachan, the Coby strain, have been good. However, you definitely have to change the way you work with them; timing of brood production and space needs differ widely fom Italians. I would suggest you be careful where you get them. Some seem to be crossbred with Caucasians. Some seem to have been bred with a mix of drones other than Carniolan. Two east coast breeders of Coby bees have not worked for me. One is still building up his stock. The other does not respond to inqueries. If Italians work for you - remember the adage: IF IT AIN"T BROKE, DON"T FIX IT. John F. Mesinger jfm6f@unix.mail.virginia.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:11:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CAIR Subject: Question on Northern Virginia beekeeping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hello I am new to beekeeping. I have bees in Northern Virginia and am wondering what I should do this spring and when I should do it. I think I have to re-queen since my bees swarmed alot in their first year and didn't produce much honey. When should I do this and how? I have just one hive now but want to add three this spring. When can I install new nucs for the coming year? What is the best race for my area? Can I try out different races in hives close to each other? When is the primary honey flow and what is the nectar source? I read a lot of bee books etc., but they do not have area-specific information. The "Hive and the Honey Bee" has info but it covers too wide an area. Anything else I should be doing? Medicine, etc. Ibrahim ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:37:33 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Keim Subject: Need to buy Pollen Substitute... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" I need to purchase about 150 pounds of pollen substitute for this spring, but the shipping is killing me for such a miniscule amount. I have tried a couple of supply houses close to me, but neither stock it, and I hate to bother the commercial producers in my area. My apiary is in Northeast Kansas, so southeast Nebraska, western Missouri, and even southwest Iowa would be within the realm of possibility of customer pick-up. Anyone know of distributors in these areas, or have other ideas? Thanks. John Keim Keim Apiaries Fairview, Kansas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:08:09 -0800 Reply-To: mdshepherd@xerces.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Shepherd Subject: State bee protection programs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi folks, I am currently reviewing the EPA's draft Pesticide Registration Notice on= Bee Precautionary Labeling. Her at the Xerces Society, we want to get a= response to the EPA by the Jan 22nd deadline. The draft notice talks of state approved bee protection programs. Can= anyone point me towards some information on these? Which states have them,= where can I get a copy of one? I've looked in the BEE-L archives and found= Tom Theobold's article, but nothing on protection plans. It would be good= to find out a bit more about them since the proposed pesticide labeling= may not be applied where such programs exist. Do the programs provide= better protection to bees than the proposed labeling? What if the= programs, often voluntary, offer less protection? Will the draft labeling= rules apply or be ignored in favor of the lesser standard? Has anyone sent the EPA comments? I would be pleased to see them if you'll= send me a copy. If we all say the same thing, the regulators might listen. Your comments, please! Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. Matthew Shepherd ______________________________________ Matthew Shepherd Director, Pollinator Program and Publications The Xerces Society 4828 SE Hawthorne Blvd, Portland, OR 97215 Tel: 503-232 6639 Fax: 503-233 6794 Email: mdshepherd@xerces.org Website: www.xerces.org ______________________________________ The Xerces Society is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the conservation of invertebrates. ______________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:10:10 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Morris Subject: Re: Question on Northern Virginia beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a new keeper myself, I can say I have learned a lot from Dr. Imiries Pink Pages--online, and the book-The Beekeepers Handbook (3rd edition)-by Dr Diana Sammararo. Tim Morris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:02:00 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark G Spagnolo Subject: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Besides the color, there are other less obvious differences between = Italians and Carniolans. I've worked extensively with both breeds and even spent a couple days = watching Sue Cobey artificially inseminate breeder queens. I even = accompanied her on a drone trapping expedition! We collected traps with = hundreds of big fat drones. Collecting the semen was another story. I = am very glad I wasn't born a drone! Squeeze, pop, and it's all over! In my opinion, even though both breeds will produce honey, the real = difference between these breeds is in how they handle a dearth or the = big dearth, winter. Carniolans will stop rearing brood much more = quickly than Italians. The saying is soming to the effect that "The = Italians made more honey than the Carniolans, but they also ate a lot = more". When I kept bees in the tropics I used only Italians. Now that I keep = bees in Minnesota, I use only Carniolans. =20 You really need to determine how you want to keep bees and then use the = appropriate breed. Mark in Minnesota ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:18:51 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Organization: Oregon VOS Subject: Re: State bee protection programs Comments: To: Matthew Shepherd In-Reply-To: <200101112257.RAA18576@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII It occurs to me that there is about to be a rush to return as much as possible to the States under the guise of "states'" rights. Among other things, Federal expenses are cut leading to tax cuts, etc. However, even though in the past beekeepers stayed put and arguably didn't engage in interstate commerce, that is no longer true. Pollination requires interstate commerce which is one trigger for Federal intervention. It is in the interest of the pesticide (of any kind) producers to move responsibility to the States, fragmenting the responsibility for all kinds of labeling, use, and enforcement which can be brought to bear against them. In addition, even if we ignore interstate/international marketing of honey which it can be argued is normally done by a distribution level at least one step removed from beekeeping, and which is, in relative terms a minor market, the same can't be said of crop production reliant on bees as reliable and manageable pollinators. Therefore, while the State programs are important, for the purposes of holding the line or even beefing up the insect (bee) protection mechanisms including the pesticide use labels, the harm about to be done directly to the bee industry and secondarily to the crop production industry depends on making the argument that both, because of their interstate nature, are properly the responsibility of the Federal Government. In addition, since not all States maintain the same level of bee protection programs, some, evidently not controlling bees at all, it seems to me an argument can be made to the States and the Federal Government, that States having weak programs may find themselves ignored by the pollination industry. Beekeepers may conclude that it is not worth endangering their assets to move them into areas with weak or no regulation. [The usual disclaimer: not qualified to make a legal argument but have, on occasion, read the Constitution.] On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Matthew Shepherd wrote: > I am currently reviewing the EPA's draft Pesticide Registration Notice on= > Bee Precautionary Labeling. Her at the Xerces Society, we want to get a= > response to the EPA by the Jan 22nd deadline. > > The draft notice talks of state approved bee protection programs. Can= > anyone point me towards some information on these? --------------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, Raw Honey | leave our kids a decent place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 02:43:40 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Comments: cc: MelathopoulosA@EM.AGR.CA Adony, you write: >> The problems with antibiotics are four; >> a) Resistance to antibiotics is very likely. This would be far less of a problem if we could rotate two or three substances, like sulfathiazole and streptomycin >> b) Antibiotics can leave residues in honey and wax, which are illegal in many honey importing countries and can erode public confidence in the purity of hive products. Unfortunately, honey already suffers from this. NOFA (Northeast Organic Farmers Assn) won't certify *any* honey as organic and not just because of drugs; they think bees probably pick up pesticides from the crops they visit. Whether it is true or not, *they think this*. I believe most honey these days is sold to manufacturing firms like Nabisco and they certainly don't care about traces of chemicals >> c) The infective spores are unaffected by antibiotics and treatment does not reduce disease inoculum, This is not strictly true. By preventing disease from occurring the overall production of spores is drastically reduced. One rotten AFB hive could infect hundreds of colonies. This is the principal of prevention >> d) Antibiotics tend to temporarily mask disease symptoms, making assessments of AFB infection among colonies difficult. This is quite right and is a serious problem. Once on the antibiotic treadmill, one can't easily get off. By the way, I come from California where AFB was pretty widespread. It was also one of the first states to do away with inspection, with serious consequences ensuing. >> Ontario, I have heard, is presently producing hygenic bee stocks. For more information visit: http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/crops/facts/info_honeybeequeen.htm I have used so called hygienic stock and the difference was not pronounced. Of course, we were trying to reduce mite counts, not AFB, and using resistant stock against mites has been less encouraging. But you don't address the problem of high supercedure. I worked in a commercial queen raising outfit in 1981 (a big name concern in California) and I thought their practices were shoddy. They raised far too many cells under less than ideal conditions, resulting in puny cells. This was not regarded even as a problem! The queens mated under less than ideal conditions, having perhaps one or two flying days and then they were sold. Even if you have good quality stock, it means little if poor queens are raised and shipped. To produce true high quality queens would be very expensive. Even at US $10, that represents a cost of about 25 pounds of honey at today's prices. Thanks for the info. Peter Borst ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:10:34 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Weight of Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 4000/lb was last I remember Hive and the honey bee says 3500 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:11:56 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark G Spagnolo > We collected traps with = > hundreds of big fat drones. Collecting the semen was another story. I = > am very glad I wasn't born a drone! Squeeze, pop, and it's all over! My local Beekeeping Association is finding that many drones are "dry" when trying to collect semen. Can you indicate what percentage of the drones that you observed were "unproductive of semen"? How do you site your drone traps and how are they constructed? Best Regards Dave Cushman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 04:26:13 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/10/01 7:29:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, druid@TOGETHER.NET writes: << I'm thinking of getting some carniolans this spring and was = woundering what other beekeepers think of them? I now have 6 hives of = italians and have done well with them. >> You don't say where you are. Others have given good pointers. I would like to add one. If you are in the deep south... I have found them to be poor at coping with long, hot, dry weather. Remember they were originally a mountain bee, and I think they are better adapted to areas with less extreme summers. Some also depends on your intent and the conditions with which you will use them. Italians will keep larger populations thru the winter (and of course, eat more). This is not a problem it you want to start making packages in March, or if your main flow begins very early. Carnolians are still "waking up," at this point. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 01:17:45 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: A story just for fun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Serious-all-the-time folks are going to hate this post. The setting: The queen in the University of Guam observation hive (which I maintain when I'm here during the winter) had quit laying. The queen in their companion full-sized hive had reduced her rate of egg laying after her second year. The obvious solution to both problems was the move the two year old queen into th OH, where slow laying is an asset, and buy a new queen from Kona for the big hive. In preparation, we inspected the big hive and discovered an empty queen cell with its end open. The bees had beaten us to the requeening. But on the next frame was the marked two year old queen! This was my first encounter with a situation often cited in the literature where a new queen will tolerate the old dowager queen. So I moved a couple of frames of brood with stores and bees into the OH and put BOTH queens in with them, after marking the new queen, of course. I can just imagine explaining this to the kids after having just taught them that a hive has only one queen! Providing that they both coexist in the two frame hive as they did in the ten frame one. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:24:03 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Swarm prevention MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Ibrahim. You can force swarms to self-retrieve by simply putting a queen excluder between the bottom box and the bottom board. Any swarms will be back in the hive within 2 hours after finding they don't have and egg layer with them. If you do this, though, you must go through the hive frame by frame every 10 days to be sure the bees aren't trying to raise new queens. With the QE below, new queens can't get out to mate. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:39:26 -0800 Reply-To: honeyboy@pacbell.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Subject: Stauffer pollen traps MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi, I too, have purchased Stauffer pollen traps and think they are the best. I wrote for information as to whether he is still in business 2 months ago and have still not heard from him. I gave up and bought a few Sundance traps for about 2x the price. Arrrrr..... Mason Harris KarinaBee Apiaries Burlingame, CA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:28:40 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: IBList Analysis of Apistan/Bayvarol induced fallen varroa Comments: To: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Comments: cc: IrishBeekeeping@listbot.com In-Reply-To: <200101111104.LAA59120@mail.iol.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200101111104.LAA59120@mail.iol.ie>, Computer Software Solutions Ltd writes >Does anybody know of any mathematical relationship between the number of >mites which will fall as the result of the insertion for diagnosis of >Apistan/Bayvarol strips, and the total number of mites in the hive? Norman has answered this so here is a small addition. I suggest you use the OMF under all colonies and put a tray under each for a day or two in May and see what you get. Use the multiplier and take it from there. Use any integrated method you wish and monitor again, say, a month later. Adjust the potency of your method(s) to suit the level found. You can monitor the mites for damage and consider breeding from those colonies doing most damage. What do people say about this approach? I haven't tried it yet as I have chickened out and have only used an annual application as one of the herd but it is the logical conclusion to integration, which would have to be on an individualised basis. The critical time would be late in the year when overwhelmed colonies disperse. -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:59:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "john f. mesinger" Subject: Re: Carniolans In-Reply-To: <200101121716.MAA11988@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Re: Carniolans just waking up in March in SC. The three previous winters in central VA were unusually warm. I found brood started on three frames the last week of January in two hives and each of these had 7 frames of brood by March. [Having left them honeybound the second year not realizing they ate so little stores compared to my Italians they were ready to swarm in mid March.] The same first two years, Starlines had not started brood laying the first week of March and had eaten so much more honey, there was no problem of them being honey bound [I sold them that year, and now have 4 carniolan hives educating me.] I do agree that not only state but elevation would be a factor to report when raising questions about "what type of bee". John F. Mesinger jfm6f@unix.mail.virginia.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:12:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: resistance to tetracycline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Could we be looking at very large outbreaks of AFB as antibiotics loose their effectiveness? Is there still a large number of Bacillus larvae spores in our honey? In 1988 Dr. Shiminuki did research on the subject . The American Bee Journal received the manuscript for publication Feb.8,1988 and ran the article in the May issue. I quote from Dr. Shiminuki and D.A. Knox test results. Commercial packer-No. of samples- Detectable levels Bacillus larvae U.S. & Canada - 21 - 21 Turkey - 1 - 1 Beekeeper packer U.S.& Canada - 33 - 10 New Zealand - 2 - 0 infected colony - 1 - 1 Dr. Shiminuki found 33 of the 58 samples contained detectable levels of Bacillus Larvae(A.F.B.). Twenty-one of these samples were honey purchased from supermarket shelves in the U.S. and Canada.. 33 were obtained directly from individual U.S. and Canadian beekeeper/packers; two were from New Zealand; one was from a commercial packer in Turkey; and one was from a colony with American Foulbrood disease. Resistance to terramycin big problem or minor problem? Has Terramycin been masking a serious problem? comments? Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:11:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Wright Subject: Returning to the Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings to all from the American Southwest and thanks to all of those = out there providing informed discussion. Having been exposed to = beekeeping as a family affair during my childhood I am returning to the = hive after settling down with my own family.=20 After spending hours scouring the Bee-L archives I am struck by how = much beekeeping has changed in the last 20 years (to which I am sure the = old-timers will attest). Many new issues have arose such as the spread = of mites, the introduction of the africanized hybrids into America, the = fact that we can all email one another about bee related topics....... I = could go on and on and on. As I attempt to refresh my memories of the practical aspects of = beekeeping from my childhood I find myself struggling with some of these = new and unfamiliar challenges. Though the Bee-L archives have been a = great help, they are far from exhaustive. Of course, the essentials of = beekeeping remain the same. However, I would really benefit from any = recommendations for comprehensive texts on contemporary beekeeping = practice: how and when to treat for what, warning signs of this and = that. I feel most uninformed about exactly how diseases are dealt with = today. Technical refs are not intimidating. Beyond that, I find that beekeepers in my area are not doing anything = to respond to africanized colonies which have been documented in all = counties surrounding mine to the east, south, and west. I was shocked = to one individual routinely picking up swarms under these conditions = without a suit (am I overreacting here?). Any feedback from those = dealing with the AHB issue would be appreciated, particularly those in = my region. Thanks in advance! Scott W. New Mexico ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:59:58 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: TM in patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii People who keep patties with TM on the hive whenever extracating supers are not installed (like me) have to keep their heads down because so many vociferous people are trying to make us feel sinful. One knock on the practice is that the bees do not get enough TM fast enough to preclude undermedicating. Be advised that adding a goodly amount of honey - your own, of course - will cause the bees to consume the patties at a good rate, including those on the top brood box as well as between boxes. I use at least two tablespoons in 1/8# crisco from which I make two patties. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 05:16:55 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: BeeHoo It doesn't get too much more specialized than this. BeeHoo is a Yahoo-esque directory of resources for, you guessed it, beekeepers and bee enthusiasts. The site is not searchable but may be browsed by category and subtopic. These include bees, bee management, hives products, and health, among others. Sites are listed with a brief description, including languages used at the site. BeeHoo has a nice international scope, indexing numerous non-anglophone (mostly European) sites. BeeHoo itself is provided in both English and French. Users may sign up for a free newsletter and submit sites to be included in the directory. BeeHoo http://www.beehoo.com/ Apiculture photography contest - aulaapicola@jet.es, City Government of Azuqueca de Henares The Environment and Culture Council of the Excellency the Azuqueca de Henares City Government, through the municipal apiculture school, announces the following apiculture photography contest, ruled by the following guidelines. PARTICIPANTS: Open to any citizen or legal resident of any country in the world http://www.beehoo.com/news.php3?id=5 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:05:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: TM in patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dan hendricks wrote: > the bees do not get enough TM > fast enough to preclude undermedicating. The problem is that it may be a cause of AFB TM resistance. It is not listed as the way to apply TM to hives. It is easy to do and I did it and even suggested it a couple of years back as a way to combine it with tracheal mite treatment. I also used honey to spur its consumption, since the bees did not take it down very fast. But even then, in many cases the patties were still there after many weeks, so I would remove them since the bees were ready for supering. Another problem is the amount of TM in the patty. If you use the dosage suggested when using powdered sugar and TM on top bars, that is the amount used each time over several feedings. So is this the the level of TM in the patties or is it two, three or more times that? And do the patties remain whole over the brood cycle period or are they consumed too quickly and so the bees are overmedicated? I gave up the crisco/TM/sugar and terrapatties routine because it is not a very exact method of applying TM. I would like to add that it was because it was not in accordance with label instructions, but I cannot put on that mantle of righteousness. For me it was that I could be adding to AFB resistance. And since my first act as a beekeeper ten years ago was to burn the hive I had bought two weeks earlier because of AFB, I am a little sensitive to having that happen to others. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:32:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Pollen Traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have felt guilty for not contributing to this discussion during the past two weeks. We have had some family illness that has taken an inordinate amount of my time. I think I have pretty good information on the design history of today's bottom mount traps that I will share. I will also give you some thoughts on the other traps available. I believe that the OAC trap is close to the improved design bottom trap made by V. Shaparew during the 1970's. Mr. Shaparew was a nuclear scientist who immigrated to Canada from Russia. Mr. Shaparew was a beekeeper and decided that equipment could be considerably improved by incorporating known principles of physics, most particularly having to do with air flow. He designed or re-designed several items of equipment, two of which continue today. Those are the bottom mount pollen trap and the Conical Bee Escape Board. Concerning the pollen trap, Mr. Shaparew's improvements were: 1. One way drone and bee escapes 2. Improved air circulation to reduce the amount of pollen deteriorating or molding in humid conditions 3. Relief of congestion in the pollen stripping area 4. An easy and effective way of turning the trap "on" and "off", without heavy lifting of the brood nest and supers. 5. A system to largely prevent rain water from entering the pollen collection tray. The OAG trap largely or wholly represents Mr. Shaparew's design. After several years of use, beekeepers made modifications (improvements) to Mr. Shaparew's design, which resulted in the traps first offered by Stauffer's and, with further changes, in today's Sundance(tm) trap. There are many changes from the OAG design, some are minor and others significant. In summary, these are: 1. The weak spot of the Shaparew design was the pollen tray, with lacked proper ventilation and was prone to rip when scraped with a hive tool or placed on a jagged rock or branch. The Sundance(tm) trap has a stainless steel screen. In demonstrations, we scrape this, hard, with a hive tool to show that it will not cut or rip. 2. Much improved drone and bee escapes. The escapes cannot be damaged by skunks, falling hive covers, etc. or get clogged by dead drones. 3. A trap cover that prevents almost all hive debris, including dead varroa, from getting into the pollen drawer. 4. Improved design of the stripper area to more evenly spread the stripped pollen across the entire pollen tray, therefore increasing ventilation. I know of three other bottom mount traps offered commercially. As a pollen collector, it is clear to me that these are not made by a beekeeper who collects pollen! Each has major deficiencies involving: 1. Ventilation to prevent pollen deterioration and molding 2. Congestion in the stripper screens that significantly reduce foraging 3. Drone escapes 4. Trap durability/life 5. Hive debris falling into the collected pollen A pollen trap is a tool, and one that every beekeeper should have. Like any good tool, the Sundance(tm) is designed to do the job with high efficiency (while protecting the integrity and health of the hive), and will last a lifetime. Like other tools, similar (but not at all equal) models can be purchased for considerably less, and each is almost certainly worth the money paid, and no more. If measured in years or in pounds of pollen collected, we believe the Sundance(tm) trap is considerably less expensive than those with an initial cost that is 50% lower. The trap sold by Stauffer is excellent. However, as mentioned by others, the wait time is very long. The proprietor is Mennonite, and of a conservative sect. They use horse and buggy, no electricity and no gas or diesel powered farm or wood working equipment. He has a very large, young, family supported solely by the sweat of his brow and perhaps fewer material possessions than any member of this list. If you want to purchase a trap or traps for use in 2002, now is the time to send in an order. However, I think you will find his prices have substantially increased and may not be significantly lower than those for Sundance(tm). I hope so, as it has been clear to me for some time that he was selling them at less than his cost...assuming that a reasonable value was assigned to his time. Several list members have asked for plans, and none have been forthcoming. Perhaps none will be. I have received numerous inquiries concerning whether the Sundance(tm) design can be duplicated for private use, and willingly agree. I suggest that persons so inclined purchase one Sundance(tm) trap, and disassemble it to copy. Although we use glue as well as nails and staples to assemble, the trap will come apart relatively easily of one is careful. Once disassembled, one will discover that the trap has 3 major sub-assemblies, and a total of almost 40 separate parts. To insure accuracy and consistency of manufacture and gain speed, we use over 12 different assembly jigs. We do not have any plans or drawings, as the design has evolved over time. We rely on individual knowledge, and our jigs, to produce a consistent product. With regard to the price of a Sundance(tm) trap...Those of you who decide to make one trap will find that it takes well over 40 hours. If you then decide to make another five traps, and cut all the parts at once, and make up sub-assemblies and jigs, you may get the time down to 40-60 hours for those five traps. Further manufacture will advance the learning curve, and further reduce the time per trap. However, be prepared to be shocked at the material cost, which will not materially decrease as you make more traps at one time. Depending on wood and wire supplies, we cut enough material to make 50-200 traps at one time. We assemble 100 traps at a time, for the simple reason that we do not have storage room for more. That means putting together 300 sub-assemblies and then making those and other parts into the 100 traps. If we made 10 or even 25 traps at a time, at our present price, we would lose money on every one. So, if we are going to keep the price of a trap within reason we have to make and assemble a lot at a time. In order to do that, we have to sell a lot. In order to sell a lot, we have to sell through dealers, who have the catalogs and staff necessary to sell retail. Surprise, in order to sell through dealers they have to make some money! They have to advertise (which we do also), pay for phones and electricity, catalogs, clerks and warehouse people, cartons, etc. All this adds up, and results in today's prices. I don't mind telling you that in 2000 we just broke even on Sundance(tm) traps. I hope we will do better in 2001. But we also put several hundred wonderful tools in the hands of beekeepers. These will last a lifetime, and that makes me feel good. Finally, just a few words on the front-mount traps offered by a few dealers. BEE CAREFUL. You will principally get just what you pay for. At a recent meeting of the Ohio state organization, one beekeeper told me he purchased 25 such traps, and then spent over 100 hours on carpentry to get the traps in decent shape. While every beekeeper should collect some pollen, they are in a Catch-22 when it comes to buying their first trap. They may be tempted to pay less than top price "because I really don't need to collect that much pollen", but don't have enough experience to know what features to look for and what flaws to avoid. Many end up first buying an inexpensive trap, being disillusioned, and then buying a proper trap. In the end they spend more than 150% of what they should have! I hope I have been helpful. Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:10:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: Re: Pollen Traps In-Reply-To: <200101131640.LAA16016@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > in decent shape. While every beekeeper should collect some pollen, they are > in a Catch-22 when it comes to buying their first trap. Hello Lloyd - Can you please share with us why you feel every beekeeper should collect some pollen? Are you referring to collecting pollen for human consumption? I'm one of those that have never embraced the idea that beekeepers _should_ collect pollen to feed back to the bees which I hear is a practice from several sources. I suppose one could collect pollen for personal consumption but I feel great care should be given when doing so so as not to short change the bees immediate need and long term storage for pollen. If one is going to eventually feed the pollen back to the bees, why go through the trouble of collecting it in the first place? Regards, Barry ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:31:51 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Missing Andy... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bee List Members, At the winter slowdown, there is more time for reflection, and one thought often comes back, the thought of Andy Nachbaur, whose passing almost two years ago took a lot of spice out of the Bee List. Opinionated but very intelligent, Andy kept us all on our toes. You didn't have to agree with him to like and respect him for his real caring for the bees, and his vast knowledge from years of experience. Andy was also a pioneer in online apiculture. Andy, It ain't the same without you! Curiously, Andy lived on in cyberspace. His web page, frozen in time, just as he left it, was still online until just a few days ago. He must have prepaid his account for quite a while. Sadly that resource has now disappeared as well. It's like a second death. There were still some resources available there. I tried accessing a copy of the site via Google's cache, but they only have a partial first page. Does anyone else know if any full copies of the site have been preserved? I shoulda, I know, while it was available.... Some of Andy's thoughts and the tributes after his death can still be accessed by searching his name at the Bee List archives search engine at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l Dave Green Janitor, Clerk, and Bottlewasher The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:44:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ham Morton Subject: Re Queening My question is during requeening do you eliminate the host bees in the queen cage or leave them in the cage? Thanks in advance!! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:14:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Pollen Collection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry Birkey, who runs one of the truly great web sites on beekeeping, asks "Can you please share with us why you feel every beekeeper should collect some pollen?" Honeybees more or less collect pollen "as they need it". This is different from nectar collection, where they store enormous quantities for future use. In his great book, The Wisdom of the Hive, Tom Seeley documents that when bees have stored a certain quantity (at the moment, I can't recall what that quantity is) of pollen they "turn off" pollen collection (regardless of availability) and change to nectar collection. Tom documents how this has been measured and duplicated by scientists. They store about a 2-week supply before they "turn off", or decrease levels to what is necessary to replace daily use. (ok, ok, they sometimes plug out with pollen, and that is explainable, but lets not quibble.) How the bees measure the supply of pollen in a hive is fascinating, but I won't get into it right now. Given that bees will not sore a six-month supply of pollen, as they will nectar, all beekeepers should collect some pollen because: 1. At times of the year, pollen dearth's can occur. These will result in cessation or substantial reduction of brood rearing, and may come when beekeepers are trying to expand the brood nest. Feeding pollen patties is a quick easy way to maintain brood rearing. 2. All beekeepers should have at least one nuc on standby in case something unexpected happens to their hives. I have seen it recommended that beekeepers maintain a minimum of one standby nuc, or one per five hives, whichever is more. Many beekeepers fail when establishing nucs, and I believe one of the primary reasons is that they fail to feed the nuc enough pollen. (While all the books say to give nucs at least 2 frames with honey and pollen (or one with honey and one with pollen), when I have inspected hobbyist nucs I almost always find that not enough pollen has been supplied. Pollen cakes are the answer and should almost always be fed to nucs until they start to draw and fill foundation. 3. Most of us do not have to feed honey/syrup to get bees through the winter, as we can leave them with enough stores. However, many hives do not carry enough pollen through the winter, and a pollen feeding in very early spring works wonders! In fact, Tom Seeley feels that incoming pollen is what triggers brood expansion in the spring, and several scientists have documented the enormous beneficial effect of feeding spring pollen, as a matter of course. After some 35 years I continue to learn beekeeping, and one of the most striking of my recent lessons has been how many commercial beekeepers regularly feed pollen or pollen+pollen supplements. (Allen Dick has some great observations on this at his web site.) Many or most commercial beekeepers would not think of getting through a spring without feeding pollen cakes, yet the practice has not been widely suggested to hobbyists and sideliners. (To be fair, Nick Calderone did recently in a Bee Culture article.) I now always feed nucs pollen, and I produce over 100 a year. Last year I also fed to some 40 colonies that I wanted to produce comb honey on, after taking splits, and was very pleased with the results. They produced so much brood that taking substantial splits did not seem to slow them down for early comb honey. So, IMHO all beekeepers should collect pollen for feeding. Then there is the subject of eating and selling pollen. Not selling pollen is leaving money in the streets...but I am tired of typing and that will be for later. Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:09:22 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Re Queening Ham Morton asks "during requeening do you eliminate the host bees in the queen cage or leave them in the cage?" I have done it both ways and it has worked both ways. Some say that there is a hazard that the bees in the hive may accidentally sting the queen to death while trying to kill her attendants. Your mileage may vary depending upon the temperament of the hive. Sometimes very aggressive bees may be more likely to try and kill the workers and possibly the queen when the queen cage is first put in. In a case like that, I might remove the workers first. Mostly I just put the cage in with the attendants still in it, and (although maybe I'm just lucky) I've never had a problem doing that. I've had a successful intro- duction every time as long as I successfully removed or killed the queen that was previously in there. I usually try and leave the hive queenless for 24 hours previous to introducing the new queen because I think the bees are more receptive that way. Results can vary depending on the race and temperament of the bees being requeened. Have fun and best wishes for success. Layne Westover, College Station, Texas, U.S.A. (a small piece of cotton with water in it replenished at least once a day can keep the queen and her attendants alive for some time if waiting on inclement weather or other problems. I never kill the old queen until I have received the new one in the mail and made sure she is in good shape, and then I wait 24 hours before introducing the new queen. I must not be a commercial beekeeper.) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:54:04 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: alacat Subject: Re: Missing Andy... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dave and the list, I too share with you and many others, certainly, the loss of the "Old Drone". I also miss his insights, wry sense of humor and his knowledge and experience. I had bookmarked his web page and looked at it about three ago. It was good to refresh myself on his knowledge. I was surprised to see it was still online and I am really sorry to read it is no longer available for us to learn from. Thanks for letting us know. The Good Book says, "In my Father's house are many mansions..." I suspect Andy might say there are lots of hives too. Nice thought. Lawrence "David L. Green" wrote: Dear Bee List Members Andy, It ain't the same without you! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:26:06 -0800 Reply-To: gregoire@endor.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Ernest J. Gregoire" Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Matt, You did not say where your are going to keep the bees. Deep south, New England, Hawaii? It makes a difference. I live in New England and they are the best bees for this area. Ernie Gregoire. Grist Mill Apiry. Canaan, Nh ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 23:56:42 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Principle of Precaution MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this principle being well used when applied to beekeeping affairs? Debates relating to antibiotic applications polarize from extremes of using them whilst they are still useful to points of view stating that they should not be used at all, through to the opinions of using them sparingly - taking into account the pros. and cons.. In this case and as in many others the application of the "Principle of Precaution" has levels of effect depending on the starting position of the argument. If one starts at the "never should be used" position then the principle means- "beware, don't use.". If the start point is "use with care", the principle means "use but watch what happens.". If the start point is "they should be used when ever possible", then the principle means "use but in an uncontrolled fashion until they are of little or no use.". This principle may be applied to pesticides - but how? - many sides to the argument and therefore starting positions. Those who need to use pesticides to protect their livelihoods (farmers etc.)and those who are possibly affected by non intended damage - bee colonies that are poisoned. The principle is put into operation to protect humans (extensive testing) - I suppose most people will agree with that!, but at what level should it be applied to protect bees - straight away the principle is weakened by economic arguments. Few companies, if any are willing to state that such and such product doesn't damage humans but will at a certain level damage bees, so looking at the overall economic gain bees loose out - tough on you beekeepers. Here instead of precaution use the word risk! Beekeepers present at the moment low risk to agro-chemical manufacturers - we are financially weak and often disparate. The result is the undermining of present day protections that are in place. Difficulties in getting proper toxicological studies underway. Also the great difficulty in bringing to light and getting accepted as fact any problems associated with un-intentional pesticide damage. Should beekeepers continue to accept that they are on the wrong end of risk assessment and start insisting that "the principle of precaution" is applied automatically? AND is held in place until proven safe to remove it - especially when referring to the introduction of pesticides. At the moment it is often the other way around. Instead of the manufacturer proving it is safe, and whilst doing so, having the principle of precaution in place, materials are presented with risk assessment attached, often then approved leaving beekeepers to prove when damage occurs that it is not safe !! Entering the stage is the problem of SUB LETHAL TOXICITY - not often tested for when viewing bees! HOW OR SHOULD WE AS A GROUP ENSURE THAT "THE PRINCIPLE OF PRECAUTION" IS APPLIED TO THIS PROBLEM ? Analytical methods now allow for the detection of highly toxic pesticides at levels where previously no detection was possible, and at these levels sub lethal intoxication disrupts bee colony organization. Previously pesticide manufacturers did not have to take this into account - will they now? It is obviously not in their direct interest to do so. I hope that I am proven incorrect and they start to apply "THE PRINCIPLE OF PRECAUTION". Peter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:44:43 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: Re Queening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Ham & All, Ham wrote: My question is during requeening do you eliminate the host bees in the queen cage or leave them in the cage? I prefer to introduce the queen without attemdents. I order my queens without attendents in a battery box(not car battery). Removing the attendents from a normal introduction cage is not tricky once you get the hang of it. In front of a window works good. After the attendents are all on the window open the window and release the attendents. Don't remove the attendents till you are ready to install the queens and don't leave a queen out of a hive without attendents. I keep queens in a battery box, queen bank(without attendents) or install right away on arrival. NEVER do I let them sit around . Make your nucs up before your queens come. I have installed queens in the rain and with snow on the ground. I wouldn't make nucs up then but I certainly would install queens. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:47:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: workerbee@HONEYROAD.COM Organization: My Beekeeping Homepape: http://www.honeyroad.com Subject: Re: Re Queening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Go into a small, dark room with a window (i use our bathroom, make sure to out the lid down on the toilet if you do!) Release all of the bees out of the cage through the small corked hole. Then you can snag the queen, mark her and put her back in. Open the window and let the attendant fly out. Now you have less chance of speading anything they might be carrying. Allen Banks Honey Road Apiaries Ham Morton wrote: > My question is during requeening do you eliminate the host bees in the > queen cage or leave them in the cage? > > Thanks in advance!! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 03:39:31 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Re: Pollen traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Barry. You asked Lloyd but let me give you an answer which might be different from his. Where I live in Seattle, my bees load up several frames of pollen in excess of what they use (currently and overwinter). I began using traps just to keep that surplus pollen out of my hive. I get from one to two gallons of pollen per year that way! Obviously, that is not your problem or you wouldn't have asked! Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 03:24:15 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Ham. Permit me to make a pitch for a "Thurber Long Cage". This is folded up from 1/8" hardware cloth, 3/8" (outside dimension) thick (be quite precise), about 1 1/2" wide, several inches long. Whittle wood plugs for the ends. Remove the queen from the shipping cage, dispense with the attendants, mark her, and place her in the Long Cage. The key point is that the width fills the space between adjacent drawn combs - NOT foundation - so that aggressive hive bees cannot get to the queen. After making the hive queenless for a day or two (or more) in advance, insert the Long Cage between two adjacent frames, preferably ones with brood. A day later, remove the cage and release the queen onto a frame top bar. (Try hard not to let bees into the cage with her or she may take a long time coming out.) I've been doing this for years and have never had a problem. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 06:57:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Re Queening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Like many who have responded, I have done it both ways and see little difference. One other way to remove the workers is take some wire window screen, roll it into a cylinder about ten or so inches long and big enough to get your arm easily through it. Cover the ends with cloth to extend the cylinder. Big rubber bands or string work fine to hold the cloth over the screen. If you want it permanent, glue it. Then just put the cage in the cylinder, arms in both ends and you can handle the operation no matter where you are. You will look like a scientist/doctor handing hazardous material in a miniature isolation room. And bare handed at that. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME