From MAILER-DAEMON@luna.metalab.unc.edu Sun May 20 09:13:42 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.metalab.unc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4KDDgs18754 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 09:13:42 -0400 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4KDDcJ12693 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 09:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200105201313.f4KDDcJ12693@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 09:13:38 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0101D" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 192237 Lines: 4174 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:43:47 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Doug Henry Subject: Re: winter flights In-Reply-To: <200101211417.JAA11561@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've often wondered what compels bees to leave the hive for a certain death in these conditions. My experience has shown that for the most part these are the hives that will survive the winter. The more dead bees laying in the snow, the healthier the hive, it seems like a paradox but it has been that way for me. Why this is, I don't know. Doug Henry Lockport, MB -----Original Message----- From: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology [mailto:BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Drutchas Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 7:54 AM To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: winter flights Bernd Heinrich a very observent fellow watched his bees fly out into a sunny 10 F degree day, crash into the snow and die. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:57:29 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Mouse guards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Juan de Fuca. Effective mouse guards can easily be made from 1/2" hardware cloth. Cut a piece 3" x entrance width, fold 90 degrees lengthwise to make a 1 1/2" x l l/1" angle and secure with push pins. I have posted recently my argument against using entrance reducers, controlling ventilation air flow with the size of the upper entrance. This required mouse guards such as the above. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:51:34 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: A couple of questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Tim. I augment the winter stores of my hive every year - I contrive to keep their honey-from-nectar in the brood chamber to a minimum - and find they duplicate your Hive A experience. After some point in time, early Octber in Seattle, they practically quit taking syrup. I view it as normal. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:59:51 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: S W Cranfield Subject: Re: A highly opinionated introduction to keeping bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Computer Software Solutions Ltd" To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 12:39 AM Subject: A highly opinionated introduction to keeping bees Peter, If you use rubbing alcohol to clean propolis off your hands you are likely to develop a propolis contact allergy that makes the skin fall off and is very itchy. Best to use a nail brush and soap. Shaun ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:04:04 -0800 Reply-To: thfofc@gci.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Victors Subject: Choosing extractors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, I have been a silent participant of the Bee list for quite some time and have enjoyed the discussions that I have been reading here. The list seems well rounded and the diversity of opinions as well as the expertise displayed makes me look forward to my daily digest. I am fairly new to the beekeeping field and would like to ask the members of the list to give me some advice on the type and size extractor that would be most useful for my needs. My past experience with extracting is limited to a long afternoon at a friend’s house using her two frame reversible last year to extract the products of my two hives. She has the closest extractor and has been gracious to let me do my extracting there. She lives about 40 miles from my house, and since I have plans of increasing the number of hives from two to fifteen this year, it will be unworkable to extract at her house for the upcoming season. Since this will be an important and likely expensive purchase, I would prefer to work from an informed viewpoint and get it right the first time. There seems to be no end to the variety that is available as well as the various plans to make your own. I would appreciate any help in what to look for (as well as what to look out for) from the members of the list to aid me in my decision. Thanks Steve Victors Big Lake, Alaska thfofc@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 06:51:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T'N'T Apiaries Subject: Re: Choosing extractors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve: > Since this will be an important and likely expensive purchase, I would >prefer to work from an informed viewpoint and get it right the first >time. There seems to be no end to the variety that is available as well. How many hives do you logcally think you will have in three years? Five years? Ever? I see that you are in Alaska and doubt that you can upsize or downsize very easily. Is there any possibilty that your friend or someone else not to far away needs "more" extractor as well and a joint purchase could be made and utilized? If you extract more than once a year, can things sit more or less where they are going to be used or do they need to be relocated each time? Things of course change, but addressing these are questions will help you narrow the field. Dave Tharle Ardmore, AB ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 07:40:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Drutchas Subject: winter flights MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Flying out into the snow is well explained by John Free in his book Honeybee Biology. In short he says unlike a fly that has a gryroscope balance the bee uses whats called dorsal light reflex. This means that in order to keep a proper flying attitude they need more light falling on the upper part of the eyes then the lower. If more light is coming from below then above the bee will turn over an crash. Heinrich called back yesterday to answer his question. He took off the cover and let bees run up out of the center of the cluster and found they too where full of wastes. So why do some bees fly out into cold and others not. Maybe its the older bees that cant hold it that fly out. I had the temp. on those bees wrong. The abdomen was 16 C, probably warm enough to function, the thorax was 30 C. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:01:57 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Green Subject: Why make drones? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can an evolutionary minded beekeeper explain why a queenless hive makes laying workers who in turn produce drones? It would seem that these drones came from failed genetics, the hive died, so why would nature chance spreading these genes rather than creating none at all? Unless, having lived and failed is considered genetically better than not having lived at all. Wondering. Contact me at: Rick Green 8 Hickory Grove Lane Ballston Lake, NY 12019 (518) 384-2539 Gothoney@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:00:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Extractors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve, in Alaska, admits to being a long-term lurker and wants to know about what extractor to buy. First, are you certain you want to buy an extractor? I have customers in Alaska (and the Yukon) who claim such extravagant prices for comb honey that I have to wonder why anyone would produce anything else! How about $10 for a box of cut comb or a Ross Round? Of course, you need to sell it where the tourists are! Onto extractors...I bought my own just last year. Since the bee equipment dealers are all customers of mine, I will not recommend a model so much as share my shopping experience. The best advice I got was "look for a used Maxant or Hubbard, just be certain it is stainless". Around here it is almost impossible to find either that is for sale. However, it is common to find both that have been in use for 20 years or more! Which says something about why they are so prized. Beyond that, consider the following: 1. Are the seams welded or soldered? I personally would not one that is soldered. Soldered seams are more likely to break, and it can be very difficult to find someone willing to repair them. 2. Are spare parts readily available? 3. If you are buying new, buy larger than you think necessary, and get the best you can afford. 4. The market for extractors is so competitive that you can safely buy by price. This means that if an extractor of a given size sells for more or less than a competitive model, it is worth just what it is selling for...see below for the exceptions. 5. In five to ten years, you will probably be able sell your extractor for about what you paid for it. 6. Some of the extractors made in Europe are bargains. They are artificially low-priced because of the high US$ during the past couple of years. However, see item 2, above. I hope this helps. Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:30:14 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: FYI: My comments to the EPA about bee label changes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subj: Comments Re: Docket Control Number OPP-00684 Date: 1/22/01 12:25:46 PM Eastern Standard Time From: Pollinator To: opp-docket@epa.gov opp-docket@epa.gov Docket Control Number OPP-00684 Re: Federal Register: November 22, 2000 (Volume 65, Number 226)] [Notices] Comments by David L. Green, Pollination Specialist pollinator@aol.com PO Box 1200 Hemingway, SC 29554-1200 CONTENTS I. General Comments A. What is good about the current pesticide/bee protection law? B. Flaws in the current pesticide/bee protection law. C. What is good about the proposed pesticide/bee protection setup? D. Flaws in the proposed pesticide/bee protection setup. II. Responses to specific questions in the EPA proposal. I . A. What is good about the current pesticide/bee protection law? 1. Current law relies on specific label directions that are custom designed for the specific hazards of the material. These label directions are the law for that particular material. 2. While some bees are private property, the current laws recognizes that all bees are an environmental resource. The threat to our pollinators by misused pesticides is a much more significant environmental issue than pandas or snail darters. Serious damage to our pollinators could result in great economic disruptions in the United States, and even possibly bring on famine in America. Even slight shortages in our food supply could well lead to panicky hoarding, and for significant diet problems for economically disadvantaged persons in our nation. Our supply of natural vitamin C, for example, is highly dependent upon pollinators. 3. Label directions clearly make the APPLICATOR responsible for bee protection. This is rightfully so, because he is the one who choses to use a toxic material with environmental implications, and he is the ONLY one who really has control of all aspects of that application. 4. Current label directions clearly indicate ALL bees are protected. While many officials refuse to enforce for anything other than managed honey bees, wild bees of many species are an important part of the pollination mix, especially for small growers, gardeners and others who do not place honeybees for pollination. B. Flaws in the current pesticide/bee protection law. 1. Pesticide literature/recommendations do not implement the current label laws, and continue to advise past methods that are violations today. Many references in extension and other pesticide recommendations state or imply that the label directions for bees are optional rather than mandatory. The Clemson Extension publication on protecting bees clearly states, "where possible," as if the applicator can make a judgment call whether bee protection is "possible." And of course, the applicator's criteria are not always concerned with bees. Even worse, recommendations frequently advise applicators to notify beekeepers, with the statement or implication that the applicator no longer has to concern himself with the label. States that officially do this are violating federal law, by instituting less strict pesticide laws than the Federal ones. Any government agency that officially allows this evasion of label directions, is seizing beekeeper assets without compensation, a violation of the Bill of Rights. 2. Enforcement is uneven to nonexistent in various states. One state pesticide enforcement official recently called bees "trespassers," a concept that was deliberately negated by FIFRA and current label directions. Investigations of violations/bee kills are often incompetent, and merely consist of paper shuffling, with enforcement actions being very rare. Even more rare is compensation for damages done to beekeepers. In cases of bee kills, samples need to be taken in a matter of hours, and it may be several days before an investigator will come. The investigator is often not knowledgeable about bees, and is terrified of them. He/she may not even know how to take appropriate samples. Investigative blunders may also be deliberate. Beekeepers have become cynical. Mention of pesticide kills will rouse a lot of heat at a beekeeper meeting, but reports of many bee kills are never made, because beekeepers know that no action will be taken. 3. Current practices were not sufficient to prevent me from sustaining hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage during my beekeeping career. I have had damage in more than one state, and have observed or been aware of hundreds of incidents of damage in many states, including New York, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina, New Jersey, Massachusetts, California, Colorado, Arizona, and others. I have had damage from Penncap M, Guthion, Malathion, Dibrom, Lannate, Lorsban, and many other pesticides used in violation of label directions. 4. In practice, the current system does not provide ANY protection to wild pollinators. In South Carolina, a statement to the media by Cam Lay, an official of the Department of Pesticide Regulation specifically stated that only managed honeybees have any protection, which violates any common sense reading of the label directions. 5. The current system makes no provision for pollinator remediation. Those who dump toxic waste into streams are required to restock fish that are killed by their action. Those who kill pollinators by sloppy pesticide use should be required to restock pollinators. If those who damage bees were required to replace them, such pesticide misuse would soon drop to very low levels. Beekeepers who are damaged may be unable to restock an area, because they are impoverished by the damage. In 1990, I did not have sufficient bees left after the 1989 post-Hugo mosquito application damage to meet my pollination contract obligations to watermelon, cantaloupe, cucumber and squash growers. I had to take money from the first ones I put out, to purchase more bees to supply later growers. This expense is a long term capital investment, but had to come from current income, and it meant that there was no profit for the 1990 season. In addition half my equipment did not have bees to fill it, so it sat empty during the summer and was eaten up by wax worms. Not only should compensation be made, but it must be adequate for ALL losses, and be timely, to prevent further losses. C. What is good about the proposed pesticide/bee protection setup? "This product is toxic to bees exposed to treatment and for _X_hours/days** following treatment. Do not apply this pesticide to blooming, pollen-shedding or nectar-producing parts of plants if bees may forage on the plants during this time period." This statement, if made a mandatory federal direction on pesticide labels, with NO exceptions, could produce very good protection of ALL bees, both domestic and wild. D. Flaws in the proposed pesticide/bee protection setup. 1. It is not clear that this label will be mandatory. It must not be solely advisory. If it is not mandatory, then it is BIASED in favor of the convenience of the pesticide industry, and against the livelihoods of beekeepers, which is NOT EQUAL PROTECTION OF THE LAW. 2. The law should also make clear that "bees" are defined as ANY bee species, not just Apis mellifera (honeybees). 3. The proposed label should end as per the quote above. It goes on to provide a way for states to evade compliance, which is a major flaw in the proposal. Many states will not have very good compliance, and some will have none at all. Past experience shows that many states will use this exemption to shift the responsibility for bee protection from the pesticide users to beekeepers. Such schemes of evasion will provide NO protection for wild pollinators, and will place an unjust and impossible burden on beekeepers. See I.B.1 above and II.D.3 below. Beekeeping nowadays is an interstate endeavor, and the issue of pesticide misuse is of national concern. Damage that occurs in one state to migratory bees, can cause pollination shortages in another state. So pesticide laws that relate to bees should be unified and consistent, at the federal rather than the state level. See II.D.1 below. 4. The label direction is based on toxicity studies provided by registrants, which can be tainted or biased. There needs to be an objective means of verifying the accuracy of such studies and strong measures taken against registrants, if untrue statements are made. 5. There needs to be a proviso for pollinator remediation paid for by those who violate the label. Realistic damages should be provided to beekeepers who suffer losses and damages should be doubled every thirty days by law, to encourage prompt remediation and stop consequent losses. Wild pollinators should be restocked under the supervision of an appropriate and objective agency, such as a state wildlife department, as early as possible in the natural season, but no later than one year after the damage occurred. 6. The following reading would strengthen and improve the label statement: "This product is toxic to bees exposed to treatment and for _X_hours/days** following treatment. Do not apply this pesticide to blooming, pollen-shedding or nectar-producing parts of plants (including drift to non target blossoms), if bees may forage on the plants during this time period." II. Responses to specific questions in the EPA proposal. A. <> NO, it should not allow exemptions. These widespread programs are becoming increasingly frequent, and are among the most hazardous of all for wild and domestic pollinators. Widespread applications provide no "islands of safety" for wild bees from which to recover, and beekeepers can be too badly damaged financially to recover. This happened to me in the applications following Hurricane Hugo in 1989, when label directions were not accurately followed and my own losses amounted to tens of thousands of dollars, from which my pollination business has never been able to fully recover. The pollinator environmental issue is also a public health issue, as our food supply is directly dependent on pollinators, whether this means beekeepers who do pollination with honeybees, or wild pollinators such as bumble bees, mason bees, leafcutter bees, carpenter bees, and butterflies. All of the post-Hugo applications could have complied with label directions and protected wild and domestic pollinators, had there been a simple monitoring system to determine when bees were foraging, instead of timing applications by assumption of when bees were foraging. I offered to help do this monitoring, but was rebuffed. I saw the same evasion of the labels during applications following Hurricane Andrew, Fran, and Floyd. After Hurricane Hugo's mosquito spray program, wild bee populations took several years to recover to anywhere near the former populations. I tried to get Clemson and others to document this, but no one would do so. Clemson University receives research donations from the pesticide industry and no one is willing to "rock the boat." The damage done to one beekeeper in the post-Floyd applications by Horry County are displayed at: http://members.aol.com/gardenbees/ The Department of Pesticide Regulation concluded that the applications were in violation of the label directions, yet did nothing for enforcement. The beekeeper involved, in my estimation, sustained about $10,000 worth of damage. He was generous and submitted a claim for only the remedial labor involved, for $2,000. Even that claim has so far been ignored by Horry County, and he has received no help from the Department of Pesticide Regulation. B. <> The assumption should be 96 hours. This will err on the side of safety for the bees, and spur the registrants to get the toxicity studies done. C. <> The specific toxicity period would be an improvement, if the application prohibition were mandatory. Insecticides with low residual activity can be applied by timing the application to avoid the actual foraging times of the bees, (which should be determined by actual monitoring not guesswork). But highly residual materials should not be applied to any bloom that is attractive to bees, because bees will be visiting and contacting the poison, long before the residual activity ends. I have seen recommendations from the manufacturers of highly residual insecticides (such as Penncap M) that advise users to apply when bees are not actually foraging. This ignores the residual activity of the material and amounts to a recommendation of pesticide misuse. I have also seen enforcement officials evade enforcement action by simply ignoring the residual statement on present bee labels. D. <> The label directions should be mandatory and federal. 1. Most commercial beekeepers are migratory and the season of activity is extremely intense. When bees are delivered to pollination sites, it is imperative that they not be even one day late, or growers can suffer large losses from pollination deficiency. Beekeepers do not have the luxury of dealing with a maze of local regulations. There should be one unified law that applies to all states. I have had pollination contracts with a single customer that placed bees on sites in two states and multiple counties. In these cases beekeepers usually do not even know where the bees will go until they actually arrive at the central distribution site. Beekeepers may work for 24 hours or more before the luxury of sleep is possible. We usually do the job very well, often in adverse weather and other conditions. It is not right to add another bureaucratic layer by making beekeepers deal separately with different state regulations. 2. Currently states are allowed to make stricter controls on pesticides but not less strict than federal standards. This has often been evaded, but should be continued as a matter of specific law. If allowed, many states (such as South Carolina, which has a small bee industry, and a powerful cotton industry - which THINKS it does not need bees), will have NO realistic protection for wild and domestic bees. 3. States have long evaded the present law by implementing programs that allow the user to not comply with label directions, if they notify beekeepers. The applicator is the rightful one to be responsible for safe use of the pesticide; he is the one who has chosen to use a toxic material with environmental implications. Dumping this responsibility onto beekeepers is a seizure of the beekeepers' property without compensation, a violation of the Bill of Rights. These state plans have traditionally been used to evade label compliance. Every beekeeper who has plans for productive work for the day, can have that plan trumped by any pesticide applicator who is to make an application within flight range of any of the beekeepers' bee yards or pollination locations. Oftentimes multiple locations are involved on a single day, and beekeepers simply do not have the personnel to attend to multiple situations. Hobby beekeepers have other employment and their bosses may not take kindly to their request for time off to protect their bees. Almost all of my bees are within range of cotton during cotton bloom, and there is no viable way to remove them from the area. On any given day in midsummer, potentially a dozen sites may be exposed, if cotton growers are allowed to misuse insecticides. I am only a single person who cannot be on more than one site at a time. The state authorities have clearly indicated that they would implement a plan which would make me responsible anyway. The state already did this in the applications after Hurricane Hugo. They told beekeepers to protect the bees. I had bees in over 50 locations in seven of the ten counties that were sprayed. Many trees were down and most of these bees were inaccessible. On any given day, I have to make several phone calls to find out where the planned applications would be, and I often wound up without the needed information. Yet they demanded that I protect the bees, an impossible demand. 4. Any state programs that evade mandatory label directions that are the responsibility of the pesticide user, will offer NO protection to wild pollinators. As indicated earlier, wild pollinators were severely damaged by the Hurricane Hugo applications. In the following seasons, I saw whole fields of watermelons that were unmarketable, because they were poorly pollinated, and the growers had traditionally depended on wild pollinators. 5. The state programs are much more vulnerable to conflict of interest. South Carolina Department of Pesticide Regulation is a branch of Clemson University, which receives grants from the pesticide industry. The Department has, in my own experience, exhibited so much reluctance to enforce the bee protection labels that it appears to be "in the pocket" of the pesticide industry. It has been characterized by inept investigations and indifference. The only time I have gotten significant enforcement is when I handed them an ironclad case, with the perpetrator caught red-handed in the violation on video tape. On other occasions the appropriate video was given, showing violations in progress, but no action was taken. One of these events that was ignored was a violation by Clemson Extension personnel at the Pee Dee Experiment Station in Florence, SC. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:41:26 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: allergies Allergies I have had a lot experience with allergies in my 50 years. I have a severe allergy to peanuts and have visited the emergency room quite a few times as a result. I also have the classic "hay fever"-- allergy to pollen. I trapped pollen for a dozen years and found that I could handle emptying the pollen trap drawers -- but no more than that. I could not tolerate it on my skin and could not stand to breatheair saturated with pollen dust. Some people claim that hay fever can be relieved by eating bee-collected pollen; I couldn't eat even the tiniest speck without turning my tongue into an itching mass and breathing the dust produced hay fever symptoms (itchy eyes, wheezing). On the other hand, I developed the normal immunity to bee stings: there is no itching and seldom any swelling. I have never heard of an allergy to propolis. Shaun wrote: "If you use rubbing alcohol to clean propolis off your hands you are likely to develop a propolis contact allergy that makes the skin fall off and is very itchy. Best to use a nail brush and soap." Of course, some people are even allergic to soap. Allergies seem very capricious. But I wonder what is the key point in Shaun's experience? Is there some interaction between alcohol and propolis? I have never heard of this. Rubbing alcohol itself should be safe for most people. Perhaps Shaun or someone else could supply some more info on this one. Peter Borst Ithaca NY USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:40:48 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Winter Flights MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I remember, the three simple eyes (ocelli) on top of a bee's head are light dectectors whose purpose is to detect where the strongest light is coming from. In daylight this is almost always from above. So they tell the bees which way is UP. When you get a strong light reflection from snowfall the bees get confused messages and try to fly upside down, ending up in the snow. Chris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:27:33 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Robert J. Bassett" Subject: Re: A highly opinionated introduction to keeping bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/22/2001 2:55:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, SLCranfield@XTRA.CO.NZ writes: << If you use rubbing alcohol to clean propolis off your hands you are likely to develop a propolis contact allergy that makes the skin fall off and is very itchy. >> I usually use mineral spirits or other petroleum based solvent to remove propolis. Being a machinist, I have used mineral spirits as the 'Universal Solvent' around the machine shop for about 30 years. I used to get itchy skin because the mineral spirits would remove the natural oils from my skin. I solved that problem by mixing in about 20% clear mineral oil with the mineral spirits. I believe the mineral oil by itself would remove the propolis from your skin. Clear mineral oil can be obtained from the pharmacy. It is used as a laxative. If you can drink it, it probably won't hurt your skin. (Please feel free to correct me on that.) I am unfamiliar with the "propolis contact allergy" being exacerbated by the use of alcohol. Could you please expand of this a bit for me? Thank you kindly, Bob Bassett - Still willing to learn something new. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:36:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Cosman & Whidden Honey Co." Subject: Wax Moths Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Until this past year, wax moths have never been more than a rare and minor nuisance on my bee farm in Nova Scotia, Canada. However, this past fall I had a very serious outbreak of wax moths,such that all of my several thousand supers must be considered generally infested with all stages of wax moth, egg , larva, pupa, and adult. Can anyone tell me if the common wisdom is based in fact, that all stages of wax moth are killed by freezing? If so, how and where do they overwinter in a climate such as ours, with several months of freezing temperatures, and with all supers held in unheated storage buildings? What should I do in the spring to prevent reinfestation in the supers which don't go on hives until July? Thanks to all for any advice. Tom Cosman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:55:44 +1200 Reply-To: bobhog@pin.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pav Organization: BombusMaximus Subject: Re: Weight of Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a closed airtight container (if they are released without too much delay they will not asphyxiate) it would not matter whether the girls were flying or not, as any lift they generate can only push down on the container by the same amount (no net weight change for the container as a whole). Although chilled bees would be easier to count. Dave's "bees flying in hives lightened the truck" story sounds like the beginnings (or is it the perpetuation) of a beekeeping myth. Perhaps we can build on it and make a decent yarn - perhaps some beekeeper getting his truck unstuck from mud using similar technique (but we need to spin it out somewhat)? -Pav, going to strap a hive to his back and fly home by repeatedly banging it. At 18/01/01 21:43:00, Joseph wrote: >Weighing out a pound of bees, ... is made very difficult by the bees' ... constantly buzzing their wings. >This ... offsets the ... weight by a considerable amount, and may create a situation where the entire >mass of bees takes flight solely due to the efforts of the outermost bees. To which at 19/01/01 07:50:00, Dave wrote: >Knowing that his truckload of bees was overweight, ... He took the club ... and walked all around >...rapping the hives. The bees ...became airborne inside the hives. Then he ... passed the scales... __________________________________ (\ Pav BobHog@pin.co.nz {|||8- Ahaura, New Zealand (/ BombusMaximus@yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:18:00 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Organization: Oregon VOS Subject: Re: comments to the EPA about bee label changes In-Reply-To: <200101222031.PAA13118@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII For US Beekeepers: The deadline for comments under this number has passed. I urge you to forward copies of the comments you made to the EPA to your Congressional Representatives. By the time regulations reach the end of the public comment stage, institutional momentum is hard to overcome without some outside help. If your reps are made to understand that it's not only beekeepers which are under attack with this proposed regulation change, but crop production generally, they may well help. As previously suggested, with the rush to shift as much responsibility to the States as possible, it is important for you reps to understand the pollination industry is an interstate industry. Someone who still has a copy of the original notice may be able to provide the address at which submission can be read. That little detail may help some Reps assistant to look further into the issue. > opp-docket@epa.gov Docket Control Number OPP-00684 > Re: Federal Register: November 22, 2000 (Volume 65, Number 226)] [Notices] --------------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, Raw Honey | leave our kids a decent place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:27:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Hancock Subject: Re: allergies and drones Peter Borst suggested eating pollen can sometimes cure allergies. I have had customers who claimed to cure their allergies by eating comb honey. This may be psychosomatic but if its not I assume it is the pollen in the honey and the cappings which is somehow acting to cure the symptoms. Have you ever tried comb honey from your area, Peter? Rick Green wondered why nature would spend energy producing drones in a queenless hive. I am no biologist but have always thought this was just worker bees desperately trying to reproduce the best they could before dying. I doubt these drone are hardy enough to successfully mate. I have read that if populations of mammals do not have members of the opposite sex to mate with then homosexual behaviour becomes more prevalent. This is another case in nature where energy is being expended in a vain attempt to reproduce, although in higher primates there are other factors involved in homosexual behaviour than reproduction alone. While we're on the subject maybe someone can explain why mammals evolved with orgasms as a reward in reproduction,while bees seem to have just as strong an urge to reproduce without any immediate reward. In fact, drones have the exact opposite of a reward; maybe they congregate to talk each other into the chase. Ted Hancock ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 20:57:08 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HarrisonRW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Choosing extractors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was able to compare three used extractors (two US, one Italian built, all 10 frame motorized) three years ago when I was in the market for one. I purchased the Maxant extractor. It was built like a tank! Next to the other two, it made them look pathetic. Everything about it was superbly built and the stainless steel was of a heavier gauge. It has served me well for the past three seasons, and I am sure it will probably outlast me (and I ain't that old). The only way I would ever get rid of this extractor was if I was to by a larger Maxant. You get what you pay for! Regards, Ralph Harrison Western CT Beekeepers Association Milford, CT ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:33:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Weight of bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I dug out our data on the weights of forager bees sampled in eastern Montana. All values are the mean or average of several independent samples, + one standard deviation of the mean (average). Don't worry if you don't understand standard deviations, its just a statistical measure of variability (i.e., how noisy is the data).=20 Most engineering and scientific calculators and computer spreadsheets will do this calculation. For bees collected from 10 different apiaries in September, 1974, the mean wet weight/bee was 0.092 + 0.004 gm, dry weight/bee was 0.031 + 0.002 gm, percent moisture 66.85 + 1.58 %. Each value represents the mean obtained from 10 independent samples of 500 bees. Each 500 bee sample was taken from eight colonies, chosen at random, in an apiary - with approximately equal numbers of bees taken from each of the eight hives. In all, 5000 bees were sampled, weighed, dried, and re-weighed again. For bees collected from 14 different commercial apiaries in August, 1976, the mean wet weight/bee was 0.088 + 0.006gm, dry weight/bee was 0.028 + 0.002 gm, percent moisture 68.66 + 1.51%. In this study, each value represents the mean of 15 independent samples of 142-216 bees. We sampled, weighed, dried, and re-weighed 2,661 bees. In July and again in August of 1976 we sampled bees from 64 colonies from 15 apiaries, taking approximately 250 bees/sample, for a total of approximately 16,000 bees.=20 The percent moisture for these bees was 66.53 + 1.95%. In this case, we wanted to check a larger number of bees. As can be seen, the percent moisture was consistent with the other, smaller samples. The forager bees in this study were aspirated from screened hive entrances and immediately frozen under dry ice. Bees were kept frozen until shipped to our laboratory in Missoula. Bees samples were dried in a low temperature, forced-air oven until reaching a constant weight. The oven was hot, but not so hot that it would burn a person. It took a few days to get the bees thoroughly dry. I hope this is of interest. It would be interesting if beekeepers in other areas of the U.S. and at different dates would conduct a similar trial. You don't need elaborate equipment - a convection oven or even a solar oven would probably work. Moving air helps extract the moisture.=20 The biggest logistical problem is getting an accurate scale or balance.=20 Check with you local high school. Just be sure to check the scale calibration with some form of standard weight - scales easily go out of calibration - even the digital ones. You need to adjust for scale error or bias. =20 Don't cook the bees, you want to dry them gradually. You may need to stir them every so often - they tend to clump and stay wet in the middle. And don't leave them sit very long before drying - they may loose moisture before you first weigh them. Freezing works well to both kill them and to preserve them for a short period prior to weighing. Don't let the samples get hot - like putting a bag of bees in the sun. They will regurgitate their stomach contents - a real mess. In humid climates, you have to watch that the dried bees don't take up moisture before you can weigh them. We take ours out of the oven and put them in sealed containers over drying salts, removing them for weighing as we sit at the scale. The silica available in hobby salts to dry flowers would work - just put the bees in containers over the silica (don't pour the silica over the bees as you do when drying flowers). We use small bottle for the bees, and a food storage (e.g., Tupperware) box, with the drying salts or silica in a layer on the bottom of the box, the bottles with bees on top of the sand, the whole box sealed with its snap on lid. If you have more time than we had, you could get weights for nectar/water gatherers, pollen gatherers, etc. We weighed whole bees with whatever they were carrying. I also suspect that you may find different weights for Italian versus Carnolians, etc. and/or that weight may vary by season (spring, summer, fall, winter). This could be a good project for a K-12 student. Cheers Jerry=20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:27:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Just a note MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fred Hale is a Maine beekeeper who reached his 110 year birthday this past December. He attended our Annual Meeting until the year before last. When he was just over 100, a friend came by and Fred was on his porch roof shoveling off the accumulated snow. A bit later he came by and Fred was shoveling off the side walk. "How did you get down, Fred?", he asked. "Jumped" Fred is now in New York to be close to his family so Maine no longer has the oldest beekeeper in the US. He kept bees well into his 90s. I had the privilege of taking a picture of three Maine beekeepers who had a combined length of beekeeping of over 200 years. Fred was most of that. Only reason I am posting this is I was reminded of him by a headline that the oldest person in the world was now in Italy. Fred is a close second. He was and is a kind, generous man and a fine beekeeper. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:44:45 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Owen Watson Subject: Hot wire uncapping In-Reply-To: <200101222031.PAA13118@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I've just been extracting my first honey of the season and doing the uncapping with a bread knife. Has anyone investigated a cheap hot uncapper using a hot wire (perhaps a bit of the wire used for frames with a very low voltage accross it). ???? -- ................. Owen Watson at home in Wellington, New Zealand Don't reply to erewhon@rsnz.govt.nz, but to owenathome@rsnz.govt.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:17:17 +0100 Reply-To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: To round off the barcode thread. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit detailed desciption of barcodes, their layout and origin. http://www.hp.com/HP-COMP/barcode/sg/Misc/bc_ref.html I have created a little software generating barcodes (Most of them). It is not without erros in my coding, because it is a test program I am using for my software, but the generation of barcodes are errorfree. you can size the codes and copy to clipboard for inserting in labels or whatever. you have this for free! http://apimo.dk click on the barcode picture and it will come to you as a zip file 182 KB Best regards Jorn Johanesson Multilingual software for beekeeping since 1997 hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software 18-01-2001 added grouping and coloring of hives. home page = HTTP://apimo.dk e-mail Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:32:08 +0100 Reply-To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: the hp barcode informayion url suddently disapeared MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the hp url is no longer valied use http://www.adams1.com/pub/russadam/info.html instead of Best regards Jorn Johanesson Multilingual software for beekeeping since 1997 hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software 18-01-2001 added grouping and coloring of hives. home page = HTTP://apimo.dk e-mail Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:27:53 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Hot wire uncapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Owen I have tried this... The problem is to get enough energy into the wire as the wax and honey conduct the heat away. I did try a hacksaw blade sharpened like a knife that was heated by a low voltage transformer. I tried several transformers up to 1000VA and still had the problem the blade got red hot but cooled rapidly when in contact with the honey. A heated blade of stouter proportions with thermocouples and heaters inside it may well work but I gave up before reaching that stage. Regards From:- Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding, website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman Archives of IBList, website http://website.lineone.net/~d.cushman ----- Original Message ----- From: Owen Watson To: Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 7:44 AM Subject: Hot wire uncapping > I've just been extracting my first honey of the season and doing the > uncapping with a bread knife. Has anyone investigated a cheap hot > uncapper using a hot wire (perhaps a bit of the wire used for frames > with a very low voltage accross it). > > ???? > -- > ................. > Owen Watson > at home in Wellington, New Zealand > Don't reply to erewhon@rsnz.govt.nz, but to owenathome@rsnz.govt.nz > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:29:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Weight of bees In-Reply-To: <200101230836.DAA00298@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > You don't need elaborate equipment - a convection oven or even a > solar oven would probably work. Moving air helps extract the moisture... > Don't cook the bees, you want to dry them gradually. You may need to > stir them every so often - they tend to clump and stay wet in the middle... I'm curious why dry weight is of interest unless a nitrogen analysis or other such work is planned, and I wonder if anyone has done any analysis to see how much of what comes off under such heat is moisture? It seems to me that there must be other volatile constituents of a bee besides water, such as the pheromones from scent-producing glands and possibly other alcohols and esters. allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:58:27 -0700 Reply-To: Allen Dick Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Fw: Pesticide Alert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Allen Dick" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 8:55 AM Subject: Re: Pesticide Alert > I just received my catalogue from Betterbee and it contained the > following information. I do not know the accuracy of the information > but it is very interesting to say the least. I am posting it word for > word as follows: > "Three thousand French Beekeepers demonstrated for 3 days in late > October in front of a Bayer pesticide factory in Cormery. They were > demonstrating against an organo-phosphate pesticide made by Bayer > called Imidacloprid... Yup. Unfortunately it is true, and anything that can get over a thousand French beekeepers to agree on anything -- and show up for mass demonstrations three different times -- must be a serious matter. There is a page presenting a wide variety of material about this pesticide at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Imidacloprid/ The site contains links to pages about the French demonstrations, to French discussions about Gaucho (r), the major suspect, (with translations) and to various sites that profile imidacloprid. For some reason North American beekeepers don't seem interested, although the French claim to have lost half a million hives to Gaucho over the last decade. Two French beekeepers will be at the Canadian honey Council meeting in Moncton, New Brunswick this Jan 31 to Feb 4. The honey council website is at http://www.honeycouncil.ca/ The convention schedule is at http://www.honeycouncil.ca/chc-ccm/meetings.html#agenda Eastern Canadian and US beekeepers may wish to attend the meeting. Contact Heather Clay at chc-ccm@telusplanet.net Prices are in Canadian dollars (=67c US) allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:57:57 -0700 Reply-To: Allen Dick Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Fw: Pesticide Alert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 1:04 PM Subject: Pesticide Alert I just received my catalogue from Betterbee and it contained the following information. I do not know the accuracy of the information but it is very interesting to say the least. I am posting it word for word as follows: "Three thousand French Beekeepers demonstrated for 3 days in late October in front of a Bayer pesticide factory in Cormery. They were demonstrating against an organo-phosphate pesticide made by Bayer called Imidacloprid. It is sold in France as Gaucho for seed treatment, Confidor, a spray for fruit trees, and Advantage, a treatment against fleas on dogs and cats. As most organo-phosphates are, Imidacloprid is a neuro-toxin. The beekeepers, especially in the sunflower growing areas, feel that they are losing bee population in their hives as the result of the presence of small quantities of the pesticide in the nectar of the plants. When the seeds are treated, the pesticide spreads through the plant as it grows. From the farmer's point of view, this delivery system is ideal because it necessitates only an initial treatment and minimizes labor. The Dutch government has banned its use completely in open air situations. It evidently also leaves a residue in the soil that completely destroys the earthworm population that is so important to soil conservation. It also gets into weeds and other crops grown in the same ground. French beekeepers maintain they have lost thousands of colonies to this pesticide and a sister organo-phosphate called Fibronil produced by Aventis and are calling on the French government to remove both products from the market. While all this is taking place in Europe, you guessed it, the Canadian and U.S. governments are getting ready to approve the use of these pesticieds on crops in the U.S.. You are going to be reading a lot about this in 2001 - stay informed, stay involved." Food for thought and, as stated above, shows the importance on staying informed and involved. Craig Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:00:29 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard E Leber Subject: Re: Choosing Extractors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:04:04 -0800 Steve Victors writes: > I would like to ask the > members of the list to give me some advice on the type and size > extractor that would be most useful for my needs. I have > plans of increasing the number of hives > from two to fifteen this year > > Steve Victors Steve; Hands down there is no contest between extractors for the hobby beekeeper. Check the catalogs from Rossman Apiaries (1-800-333-7677) and Burshy Mountain Bee Farm (1-800-921-2681) to find their 'Delux 9-Frame Radial Hand Extractor'. Last year's catalog price $325. The price is right, no need for a small operator to spend the money for a motorized extractor. This one runs free, smooth and easy with minimum effort. The radial design eliminates the need to "reverse frames"... uncap, load and extract both side of the frames at the same time. It is designed to hold a full honey super of frames when you are using 9 frames in a medium (6-1/4") or shallow (5-3/8") box. If you use deep boxes for producing your honey crop you'll fit 3 frames in the tangential cage that comes in the box (no extra cost). Sold complete with stand (legs) with room beneath the gate for your catch bucket and filter screens. Rick & Nancy Leber Beekeeping & Honey Production Since 1987 Mobile, 'Sweet Home Alabama' ricks.toy@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:02:22 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Weight of bees In-Reply-To: <200101231531.KAA06732@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:29 AM 1/23/01 -0700, you wrote: >I'm curious why dry weight is of interest unless a nitrogen analysis or other >such work is planned, and I wonder if anyone has done any analysis to see how >much of what comes off under such heat is moisture? Alan: When we started, all of the literature about bee poisoning was reported as some concentration X or dose per bee, and in court cases witnesses would say that all of the dose response studies reported how much the bee was exposed to, not what ended up in the bee. We also heard that bees varied so much, that one could never make any estimates of what the maximum or minimum amount per bee might be as a result of these dose trials. But, most beekeepers who have sustained a pesticide kill have dead bee bodies as their only evidence, and the only option is to analyze the bee bodies for residues. Again, we found that there was no standard for reporting body burden residues in the U.S. and other countries. The only consistent way to compare the results is to determine the amount of the pesticide per bee on a dry weight basis. Not all labs or studies do this, so you will find results expressed on a wet weight basis, a dry weight basis, and some unusual (to us in the U.S.) values such as mg% (that one took us some time to figure out). But, if you have an idea of the moisture content of a bee (and yes, there may be some volatiles lost, but the weight of these compared to that of water in the bee is likely to be small), the dry weight, and the wet weight - you can generate estimates of concentrations of the pesticide or contaminant per bee - even if the original study or lab did not address this issue. Obviously, these are estimates, covering a range of values - but it does put some brackets on the values. Cheers Allen Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 http://www.umt.edu/biology/more http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:08:33 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: allergies Ted writes: "Peter Borst suggested eating pollen can sometimes cure allergies." My response: I don't mind being quoted but I did not say that. What I said was: "Some people claim that hay fever can be relieved by eating bee-collected pollen". I don't think it is true.Perhaps eating comb honey would help; I don't know. PB ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 07:00:17 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael palmer Subject: Re: Wax Moths MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wax moths are killed by freezing. All stages. I have heard that adult wax moths are blown north in storms, and repopulate the area "up north". I keep my supers in an unheated building. In the fall, I leave the overhead doors closed during the day, and opened a crack at night. The temperature stays down this way. It stays cool enough inside the building so the moths never really get going. Of course, I live in northern Vermont where the nights are usually cool. Cosman & Whidden Honey Co. wrote: > Can anyone tell me if the common wisdom is based in fact, that all stages > of wax moth are killed by freezing? If so, how and where do they overwinter > in a climate such as ours, with several months of freezing temperatures, > and with all supers held in unheated storage buildings? What should I do in > the spring to prevent reinfestation in the supers which don't go on hives > until July? > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:12:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: hot wire uncapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have used circuits in which a hot wire formed one leg of a "wheatstone bridge" and power was controllably fed to the bridge in such a way as to keep the bridge balanced, whereby the temperature of a wire was kept essentially constant despite thermal loading. This method relies on the positive temperature coefficient of resistance of the wire. As long as the entire length of the wire is immersed together in the honey, wax, etc., this might work. If the full length is not kept immersed, the part in the air is apt to burn out when the rest is immersed. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:28:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Why make drones? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Rick Green asks, "why a queenless hive makes laying workers who in turn produce drones? It would seem that these drones came from failed genetics, the hive died, so why would nature chance spreading these genes rather than creating none at all?" I doubt highly from a genetics point of view, that the genes being passed on from a laying worker hive include a propensity for the queen to fail. I just can't imagine that such a combination of chromosomes exists, and if it did it would have fallen out of the gene pool long ago. It's a far stretch to assume a queenless hive represents "failed genetics". Laying worker hives that produce only drones is a way to ensure that the genetic material from that hive remains in the gene pool, rather than weeding it out. In a natural environment, it is unlikely that a hive will become queenless. Failing queens are superceded. It's possible that a virgin queen could meet an untimely demise on her nuptual flight(s), but such a situation is not a genetic flaw. The resulting laying worker hive may indeed have a very good compliment of genetic material and the ability to keep the genetic material in the pool after the queen's demise may be viewed by some as nothing short of miraculous! > Unless, having lived and failed is considered genetically better than not having > lived at all. Genetics make no considerations or judgements. Aaron Morris - Thinking there's some things you can chalk up to genetics, there's some things you can't. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:22:24 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: Why make drones? Greetings The study of Evolution is fascinating and full of surprises. It is a mistake to speculate too much on "the reason" why things are the way they are. My own theory is that life began to vary wildly and this provided the *potential* for evolution. Some mutations or variations were beneficial and provided a selective advantage; these were retained. Some mutations were detrimental; most of these were not retained. Some variations appear to have no particular value. Why do the leaves of different species of tree look different? I view this as a sign of the whimsical variation of nature. Other strange and apparently useless attributes may be artifacts of evolutionary paths not taken or dead ends. Some may have their roots in the far distant past. Some species of insects -- even some varieties of honeybees -- have the ability such that the workers can raise males and females when the queen has been lost. In the European honeybee this appears to be a futile attempt to save the colony. On closer inspection, one see that the results are mostly drones simply because the eggs are unfertilized and unfertilized bee eggs (whether from a queen or a worker) turn into drones. The workers develop ovaries in the absence of a queen bee; whether this ability *has a purpose* or is simply a vestige, is not really known. There have been reports of queens "appearing" in laying worker hives. How can this be? Does a laying worker get mated? Or does one in a million unfertilized eggs turn up female? Maybe they steal an egg -- they could, if they thought of it! Or maybe, as some suggest, a stray queen flies in, thinking it's her home. Go figure... PB ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:17:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Viktor Sten Subject: Re: Wax Moths MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wax moth worms are widely used as food for insect eating exotic animals and distributed by mail order across USA/Canada also it is my understanding that some animal lovers will breed the little rascals themselves all year round, it stands to reason that some will escape. This in my opinion is a major reason they reestablish themselves every summer in the north. Viktor in Ontario ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:43:42 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Robert J. Bassett" Subject: Re: hot wire uncapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/23/2001 5:13:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, morharn@MINT.NET writes: << I have used circuits in which a hot wire formed one leg of a "wheatstone bridge" and power was controllably fed to the bridge in such a way as to keep the bridge balanced, whereby the temperature of a wire was kept essentially constant despite thermal loading. This method relies on the positive temperature coefficient of resistance of the wire. As long as the entire length of the wire is immersed together in the honey, wax, etc., this might work. If the full length is not kept immersed, the part in the air is apt to burn out when the rest is immersed. >> My father's business was making packaging. He used to cut expanded polystyrene (Styrofoam) billets, by means of hot wires. The wires lasted for years. I don't remember much talk of burned wires. The wire was a resistance material called "Nichrome". The power to the wires was supplied by means of a variable rheostat. It was really a simple mechanism. It would be interesting to see the application as an uncapper. The portion of the wire which is exposed to the air during the uncapping process might get hot enough to burn honey, however. I believe it is really worth a try. Bob Bassett - An opinion worth at least 2 cents? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:11:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darrells Subject: Re: Choosing extractors In-Reply-To: <200101220756.CAA26788@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Steve Victors wrote about getting an extractor. I have several comments about his post. Sharing an extractor or any other beekeeping equipment is not a good idea, both from the standpoint of transferring disease etc, and the possible destruction of a friendship starting with your leaving the extractor messier than your friend would. People are all funny but so different. Something insignificent to you could be a major calamity to them. Going from 2 to 15 colonies is a big jump in one year. You will need to pay for the hive equipment, bees, drugs and many other things needed by Alaskan beekeepers before you think about an extractor. Here in Ontario we get 100 lbs per hive most years but some years, 1999 for example, 200-300 lbs per hive. I don't know what your production is in Alaska, likely higher than ours, but what are you going to do with 7-10 times last year's crop. You will need storage tanks capable of holding 1-2 tons of honey. I would initially look for a good used extractor ( plastic, galvanized or whatever) to look after your needs for a year or three. If you go to 15 hives and everything goes well buy STAINLESS STEEL tanks, extractor and other equipment you need for 30-50 hives because you likely will want to expand. If you don't get to 15 hives but are satisfied with 5-10, upgrade the used equipment to handle your production. I still use the motorized 4 frame stainless machine I bought 30 years ago. I have had as many as 20 colonies and as few as 4. I presently have 8 hives wintering. I use deeps for brood and midsize for honey but use the deeps for honey when drawing out foundation, so when I upgrade my extractor it must handle both deep and midsize frames. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 80W 44N ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:20:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Coleene E. Davidson" Subject: Re: Hot wire uncapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I have often wondered the same thing. I used to work for a florist. We used a piece of equipment like this to cut styrofoam blocks. It worked great. I think it would be great as an uncapper. Coleene ----- Original Message ----- From: Owen Watson To: Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 2:44 AM Subject: Hot wire uncapping > I've just been extracting my first honey of the season and doing the > uncapping with a bread knife. Has anyone investigated a cheap hot > uncapper using a hot wire (perhaps a bit of the wire used for frames > with a very low voltage accross it). > > ???? > -- > ................. > Owen Watson > at home in Wellington, New Zealand > Don't reply to erewhon@rsnz.govt.nz, but to owenathome@rsnz.govt.nz > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:11:07 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Choosing Extractors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An extractor is a very expensive item for a small scale beekeeper, particularly as it may sit around gathering dust for 364 days in a year. Consider whether you really want to go for extracted honey at this stage. There are alternatives: cut comb, pressed honey, rounds, mead which can often be sold much more profitably than run honey. Chris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:17:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: grumpy7 Subject: Re: Hot wire uncapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy, Owen. We've used a heat gun (like they remove paint with) as a decapper the last two seasons, and are well pleased with it. It works like a charm on new cappings; old brown ones need some scratching afterwards. The best thing about it is that there are no cappings to mess with. Walter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Owen Watson > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 7:44 AM > Subject: Hot wire uncapping > > > > I've just been extracting my first honey of the season and doing the > > uncapping with a bread knife. Has anyone investigated a cheap hot > > uncapper using a hot wire (perhaps a bit of the wire used for frames > > with a very low voltage accross it). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:38:07 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: hot wire uncapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all There is a vast difference in the "specific heat" and the "thermal conductivity" values for expanded polystyrene and capped honey. The wire I used in my first trial was "NiCrome" intended for domestic "electric fire" elements and very similar to that used for cutting expanded polystyrene. There is much confusion between "temperature" and "heat". In this circumstance the temperature drops rapidly as heat is transferred to the honey and cappings. If you can maintain the energy input to match the heat lost then all will be fine. I envisage a successful version having a "V" shaped stainless steel blade with individual tubular heating elements mounted in the thick part at the back of the blade. Each heater would have its own solid state energy regulator controlled by a thermocouple mounted in the thinner part of the "V" alongside the heater so that as a particular part of the blade was cooled the heater cut in to make up the temperature. You could sort this out by working from the desired rate of uncapping (frames per minute) multiplied by the mass of honey and wax involved, the temperature difference between starting and finishing each frame. I do not know the specific heat of capped honey, or the amount that would be melted per frame to achieve uncapping, otherwise I would do some precise calculations here. I would suggest we would want to achieve a time of 5 seconds to uncap both sides of a frame (12 frames per minute seems a sensible possible workrate) but each uncapping motion takes place in one second, as the rest of the 5 seconds is handling time. Here are some guessed figures... say the mass of honey and wax involved is 100 gm per frame (50 gm per side), that the specific heat of wax and honey is 1 (total guess), that the temperature shift of the items that are warmed is 30 degrees C, 100 x 30 x 1 x 4.2 (joules equivelent) = 12,600 that is 12,600 joules, which needs to be delivered in two, 1 second bursts of 6,300 joules. As a Joule is a watt per second that means a maximum energy input of 6.3 kilowatts. It may only be guesswork but any 500 mm length of NiCrome wire would vapourise if you tried to input anything like that energy level! Regards From:- Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding, website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman Archives of IBList, website http://website.lineone.net/~d.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:12:33 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Vaseline on hive parting surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I lost track of who suggested this as a way of preventing propolis glueing hive bodies together. I did this once and got a big yuk out of the result: Everytime I touched the hive it squirmed sideways, leaving the bees unconfined. This was a big nuisance so I turned my back on that idea immediately. Besides, it is a lot more fun talking about my successes than about my failures. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:53:20 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Hot wire uncapping In-Reply-To: <200101231221.HAA02151@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi: I must have missed something. I can understand why a bread knife wasn't much good as an uncapper. But why all of the hot wire discussion when one can more simplsy (and probably cheaply) buy an electric uncapping knife or, if you want to conserve energy, an uncapping comb? FYI, some of the commercial beekeepers use steam-heated uncapping knives. Cheers ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:21:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Hot wire uncapping In-Reply-To: <200101241553.KAA20975@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII We use a scratcher for all our uncapping. (104 hives, about 15,000lbs of honey). It costs about $5, never breaks down, takes 30 seconds to clean, uses no power... Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:21:14 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Hot wire uncapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 30 hives in production 3 cappings forks It takes a little longer and if this was a business i would need faster means. The vibrating or oscilating knife Walter Kelley had looked pretty good if I ever move up. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:55:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Fw: Moving Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings! Can a beekeeper in the Texas area help the below folks? Norma From: DOTTY POWELL=20 To: midnitebee@cybertours.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 1:47 PM Subject: Moving Bees Please HELP!!!!, We own a lake house at Lake Twakoni,Texas . A colony of bee's have made = a=20 home in our attic . They have made honey and it is coming through the = ceiling on=20 the patio. They aren't active now . Only once in a while we see one = flying around. Do you think if we removed the ceiling tile we would not get stung. = Please tell us what to do .The bee's are around the back door .We have grandchildren = and we are afraid they will be stung.What can we do to keep them from = coming back. Thank you in advance, Howard Powell =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:17:32 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Fw: Moving Bees A plea goes out from midnitebee@cybertours.com for some Texas beekeeper(s) to help Howard Powell in Lake Twakoni, Texas. I'm not sure where Lake Twakoni, Texas is, but it seems to me I might have seen a road sign somewhere between Navasota and Conroe. I'll have to look on a map and see if I can find it. But I have a couple of comments to make regarding this "opportunity". I have helped people before in my area who have had honey bees in the walls of their house or something similar, but in Texas, I cannot legally be paid to do it because the structural pest control board passed a law that only a licensed structural pest control operator can be paid to do it. A hobby beekeeper without a license cannot. There is a $5000 fine for breaking that law. I understand that the law came about when the pest control establishment foresaw a "gold mine" in removing Africanized bees from buildings and decided to corner the market by requiring the license (have to pay a big license fee, pass a test, etc.) and that they would make money hand over fist. That is not how it has turned out. At least around where I live, none of the pest control companies will handle bee problems. They tell the people that bees are a protected species and that they can't kill them, then give them the County Ag Extension's phone number, who then refer them to a beekeeper who may or may not be willing or able to help them. It costs me money (gas, car expense, etc.) and my time to travel and then work, often in hot difficult circumstances, and I have a full-time job doing something else. Back to the point: pest control operators will not do it and beekeepers are angry about the law, so most of them will not do it (besides the liability possibility if they were to break the law). That leaves the home owner between a rock and a hard place to get someone to help them. I believe that the law ought to be changed to allow an exemption for hobby beekeepers so they can be paid or reimbursed for their time and expenses for helping people get bees out of inhabited buildings. I have been doing it because I enjoy the experience and what I learn from doing it, and I enjoy helping people solve their bee problems, but otherwise because of the laws here it is not worth my time. Many home owners are left with no viable options for help in our state. The other side of the coin is that I can turn anybody down, and if I do decide to help, I incur no liability if there is a problem. So far as I know, I am one of the only people in my part of the state who is willing to help people solve thei bee problems. It's challenging, educational, enjoyable, and I feel a sense of accomplishment when I am successful. I might start a sideline business of bee removals if the laws were different in Texas. Layne Westover, College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:42:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Fw: Moving Bees In-Reply-To: <200101241925.OAA00552@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have helped people before in my area who have had honey > bees in the walls of their house or something similar, but in Texas, I cannot > legally be paid to do it because the structural pest control board > passed a law > that only a licensed structural pest control operator can be paid to do it. A > hobby beekeeper without a license cannot. Why not arrange work with the pest control firm(s)? I gather they have no qualified bee personnel or they would be doing it. You'd be protected by their licence and insurance, and you can leave them to take the credit -- or blame -- and make them in charge of collecting the money? allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:59:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Hancock Subject: Re: wax moths I live aprox. 52 degrees north and have wax moth present but it's never a problem. We sometimes get winter temp of -40 Celsius ( coldest was in 1985, in Nov. it got down to -57 F one night) but I think it may be more than the cold keeping the moth population under control. Back in the 90's we had several mild winters and wax moth got established in some brood chambers I had stored. So one morning in May I set them underneath strong single colonies as second brood chambers and the bees began pulling out mats of wax moth webbing and larva. When I came back to check a few days later there were dozens of strange looking wasps running around in a very skittish manner on top of the wax moth debris. There were 15 hives in the yard and I would guess each hive had 50 to 75 wasps in front, maybe more. There was a strong dandelion flow on and the bees were coming and going while the nervous wasps did their dance on the ground in front of the hive. The wasps looked unusual and I identified them by sight in my insect book as a Tiphiid wasp, namely Neozeloboria proximus of the Brachycistidinae family. The females are wingless and look like something from Mars. They are about 1/4 the size of a honeybee with pink, round heads and short antenna that have balls on their ends. The males are twice that size and look more like a wasp should look like. They even have wings. My book says all Tiphiid wasps attack larvae of one sort or another but adds that " Brachycistidinae are western and little is known of their immature stages". ( Sounds like something the Canadian prime minister would say ) So maybe Tom in Nova Scotia will have less of a problem with wax moth, if the resident population of moth predators has a chance to grow as well. I am hoping someone can tell me the life cycle of the wasps I have described. Since the females were wingless they either flew in and lost their wings or they were all ready in the brood chambers and I transported them to the yard. Funny thing is, I've never seen a wasp like them before or since. Ted ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:32:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: hot wire uncapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Probably nothing much to worry about, but isn't that wire basically a bare wire full of electrons looking for a place to go? Get a someone to make a nice ground and I'll bet you will uncap some fillings. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:53:36 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: Moving Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Layne & All, Layne wrote: I have helped people before in my area who have had honey bees in the walls of their house or something similar, but in Texas, I cannot legally be paid to do it because the structural pest control board passed a law that only a licensed structural pest control operator can be paid to do it. A hobby beekeeper without a license cannot. States differ in their laws but in MOST states including Missouri you can remove and charge BUT not apply pesticides(even Walmart pesticides) and charge. You can apply peticides if you do not charge a fee. In my opinion the rule you are talking about is maybe in effect to prevent a stinging incident from removing African bees by a person which is not experienced in handling AHB. Apparently we are talking about a Texas state law. If so you should be able to get a copy of the law so you can read for yourself. Contact Paul Jackson as he is the state Entomoligist and have him fax you a copy of the law (if there is such a law). Please post what you find out as we have got bees in Texas and would like to know what the new law says as we have never heard of the law. Department of Entomology Texas A&M University College Station,Texas 77843-2475 office: 409-845-9713 I will be seeing Paul in person in March and will ask him about the law for you. I never take word of mouth as fact when legal matters are involved. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:27:18 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: wax moths All stages are killed by freezing. The moths overwinter in bee hives -- perhaps also in the soil, or inside trees to avoid cold. If the supers have truly been frozen, they should need no further treatment -- provided: they are kept sealed. The boxes must not have cracks; if they do you could tape them. The main source of re-infestation is when you bring in equipment from hives that died out. These are full of eggs. Some fumigation of combs in summer may be necessary. Many beekeepers use PDB crystals, which are highly toxic and have residual effects. I used to burn sulfur in a pail to kill insects. Sulfur is very safe, but the fumes stink and may corrode metal parts of your the warehouse. Or -- you can just pile them on the hives. The old school believes give only as many supers as needed, but I don't think it hurts to pile them on. Peter Borst Ithaca NY U S A ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:31:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael W Stoops Subject: Re: Moving Bees Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Layne Westover wrote concerning the removal of bees from structures in Texas > ....passed a law that only a licensed structural pest control operator can be paid to do it. There is nothing against the law if the recipient of the beekeeper's efforts donates something to the beekeeper to help cover the expenses for his time and effort. Of course, the beekeeper cannot state a fee, but he can explain the law to the people with the bee problem and that he will help but anything donated to cover expenses would be appreciated. Mike Stoops Excel, Alabama - Half way between Montgomery and Mobile ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:21:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave and Judy Subject: State beekeeping associations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's the results of the survey about State assoc. dues and benefits. Wish we had more states respond! Thanks so much to each of you that took the time to respond. I didn't use any tabs, just spaces, so this should appear relatively clear. Judy in Kentucky, USA STATE DUES BENEFITS ALABAMA $10/annual Quarterly Newsletter Annual 2 day convention *Local $10/annual ALASKA *Alaska State $20/individual/annual Monthly meetings, newsletter, beginner $25/family/annual beekeeping classes, State Fair display *Alaska South $15/individual/annual Monthly meetings, newsletter Central ARKANSAS *NW Arkansas $10/individual/annual Joint orders for medications $15/family/annual Turkey for Christmas meeting FLORIDA $15/individual/annual Website *Local $10/individual/annual GEORGIA $20/individual/annual 2 State meetings; state website *Cherokee $10/individual 11 monthly meetings; website KENTUCKY $5/individual/annual Spring, Summer and Fall Conferences; Quarterly newsletter; State Fair booth *Ky Backyard $5/individual/annual Monthly education meetings; County Fair Booth; Joint orders of bees and medications; Calendar; 4h monthly meetings MARYLAND $20/individual/annual 3 state meetings per year *Montgomery Cty $10/individual/annual Monthly newsletters; George’s Pink Pages; Club apiary w/6 colonies for education NEBRASKA $12/individual/annual 8 meetings; State Fair booth; newsletter; annual swap meet NEW MEXICO $30/individual/annual Annual state convention in November; several workshops during the summer NEW YORK Empire State Beekeep $30/individual/annual 2 newsletters; 2 3-day conventions at additional cost *Southern Adirondack $10/individual/annual 6 newsletters; 5 meetings a year; County Fair display; Annual seminar *S. Tier Beekeep $10/individual/annual Local meetings; good door prizes *Finger Lakes $10/individual/annual Monthly meetings; newsletter 3 or 4 times per year NORTH CAROLINA $15/individual/annual Newsletter; Calendar; directory; 2 annual $30/commercial/annual meetings OHIO $20/individual/annual Spring, Summer, Fall conferences for add’l $25/family/annual fee; newsletter; calendar; schools $15/student-senior PENNSYLVANIA $10/individual/annual *Beaver Valley $5/individual/annual 6 newsletters; 6 meetings; 50/50 raffles SOUTH CAROLINA $5/individual/annual Spring 1 day conference; 3 day at Clemson U.; 2 newsletters TENNESSEE $10/individual/annual Website; newsletter $22/family/annual AUSTRALIA NEW SOUTH WALES $30(US)/individual/annual Includes insurance for beekeeper members * Denotes a local association ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:00:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Blocher Subject: Plans for beekeeping equipment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I have a copy of a catalogue from Sunstream that lists about 20 different plans for making beekeeping equipment. Unfortunately, this company seems to have gone out of business in the mid-1990's, and I have been unable to locate copies of these plans from anybody else. If anyone has a set of these plans, or individual plans that they would be interested in sharing (scanning in or in hard copy form) or could copy and sell, I'd be interested in purchasing them. Thanks, David Blocher dblocher@home.com (203) 938-2539 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:43:30 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: MatHig@AOL.COM Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 22 Jan 2001 to 23 Jan 2001 (#2001-24) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/23/01 11:03:58 PM Central Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: > French > beekeepers maintain they have lost thousands of colonies to this > pesticide and a sister organo-phosphate called Fibronil produced by > Aventis and are calling on the French government to remove both > products from the market. While all this is taking place in Europe, > you guessed it, the Canadian and U.S. governments are getting ready to > approve the use of these pesticieds on crops in the U.S.. You are > going to be reading a lot about this in 2001 - stay informed, stay > involved." > > Food for thought and, as stated above, shows the importance on staying > informed and involved. > Craig, Fipronil (Regent 4SC) has been approved and used in great quantities in the US, mainly on corn, for several years now. I agree that it is important to stay informed. Hope this helps. Regards, Matt Higdon mid-MO, mid USA starting to think winter is on the way out! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:41:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Leslie Thrasher Subject: Looking for journal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am sorry to disturb your listserv. I am trying to find the publisher of or any libraries that own the "Journal of Apiculture Research". If anyone can assist me it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your time and assistance Leslie Banta Thrasher Librarian Womble Carlyle Sandridge & Rice 1201 W. Peachtree Street Suite 3500 Atlanta, Georgia 30309 Phone: (404) 888-7365 Fax: (404) 870-8232 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:02:29 -0500 Reply-To: "Keith B. Forsyth" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Keith B. Forsyth" Subject: Re: Looking for journal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello: The Journal of Apicultural Research is published by the: International Bee Research Association (IBRA) 18 North Road Cardiff CF1 3DY (+44) 1222 372409 fax (+22) 1222 665522 email: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk www.cf.ac.uk/ibra or contact Dr. Keith S. Delaplane Dept. of Entomology University of Georgia Athens, GA (706)542-1765 Fax (706) 542-3872 email ksd@uga.edu www.ces.uga.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:53:39 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: ABC's Greetings Many of the questions that pop up from time to time on this list could be easily answered by a quick trip to any of the great books written on bees. I suggest that every beekeeper should own Root's ABC & XYZ of Bee Culture, at least. (I have three versions of it.) The Hive and the Honeybee (Dadant) makes a good complement to the ABC. Thereare many others just as good. You don't need to buy a brand new one, try used book stores. Most beekeeping practices have changed very little over the years and the most recent discoveries can be found on the internet or in discussion groups like this. Example from ABC & XYZ (1978): Low temperatures can also be used to destroy all stages of the greater wax moth. Temperature (F) Time in hours 20 - 4.5 10 - 3.0 05 - 2.0 Peter Borst Ithaca NY U S A ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:15:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: wax moths MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Freezing wax moths is an old topic, can be found in the archives at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9809D&L=bee-l&P=R2646 or any beginner beekeeping text. Aaron Morris - thinking be informed! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:18:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: FW: Pesticide Alert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Griggs asked me to send this along to the list: --- >I am not sure why no one picked up that Imidacloprid is not in the >Organo-phosphate group of insecticides. Imidacloprid is a systemic, chloro-nicotinyl insecticide with soil, seed and foliar uses as per http://ace.orst.edu/cgi-bin/mfs/01/pips/imidaclo.htm When I saw it in Betterbee I was immediately concerned with the error as the organo-phosphates are targeted by EPA for reduction in use. Coumaphos being an organo-phosphate is potentially going to have a short life as a beekeeper tool. cheers Mike >I just received my catalogue from Betterbee and it contained the >following information. I do not know the accuracy of the information >but it is very interesting to say the least. I am posting it word for >word as follows: >"Three thousand French Beekeepers demonstrated for 3 days in late >October in front of a Bayer pesticide factory in Cormery. They were >demonstrating against an organo-phosphate pesticide made by Bayer >called Imidacloprid. Mike Griggs Entomologist/ Support Scientist Plant Protection Research Unit USDA ARS, U.S. Plant, Soil & Nutrition Lab. Tower Road, Ithaca, NY 14853 http://www.ppru.cornell.edu/PPRU.htm phone: 607-255-1085 fax: 607-255-1132 email: mhg3@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:39:59 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Hot wire uncapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Hi all Electric knives and steam heated ones work OK but they are slow compared to what we have been discussing. > if you want to conserve energy, an uncapping comb? Same point even slower! There is another way that is finding favour in the UK...Hot air guns are sold for softening paint to allow stripping. A quick blast from one of these melts the capping in the centre of each cell and surface tension pulls the melted wax to the rim of the cell. I have not tried this personally but I am told it is quick but wax is splattered about in the process. Not a method for me as I value the wax that I remove ( sometimes cold, sometimes electric knife). Regards From:- Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding, website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman Archives of IBList, website http://website.lineone.net/~d.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:53:25 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Vaseline on hive parting surfaces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I am guilty of promoting the use of petroleum jelly (vaseline) as is Tom Barrett. http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/petjel.html The problem that Dan Hendricks has encountered is usually caused by a too liberal application or not enough white spirit/turpintine to thin the petroleum jelly so that it penetrates the woodwork. I have used this method for over 20 years with no problems. It has made my beekeeping life easier during this time. Regards From:- Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding, website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman Archives of IBList, website http://website.lineone.net/~d.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:32:58 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: vaseline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All As Dave points out, vaseline should not be applied too liberally. It is also important to ensure that the hives are vertical otherwise the supers could slip. But I do believe that the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages. Sincerely Tom Barrett ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:49:31 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Rowbottom Subject: Re: Hot wire uncapping In-Reply-To: <200101251705.MAA05135@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200101251705.MAA05135@listserv.albany.edu>, Dave Cushman writes >There is another way that is finding favour in the UK...Hot air guns are >sold for softening paint to allow stripping. A quick blast from one of these >melts the capping in the centre of each cell and surface tension pulls the >melted wax to the rim of the cell. I have not tried this personally but I am >told it is quick but wax is splattered about in the process. Hi Not a great deal of wax is splattered if care is used. However the method only works well where the bees have left an airspace under the cappings. On combs where the cappings are in contact with the honey the method does not work well at all. The honey absorbs too much heat and prevents the wax melting unles the honey is really hot. Probably hot enough to damage the flavour. Regards -- Mike Rowbottom HARROGATE North Yorkshire UK ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:55:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jim Murray Subject: Best time to harvest honey... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi, I have a single hive and have harvested some nice honey the last two years. My question is about the best time to harvest. Is is best to remove supers as they become full or wait until fall to harvest? I removed and extracted honey from two medium supers last summer and once I was done, placed them back on the hive. I harvest a honey from one of the replacements later in the season. Three full supers and a fourth nearly full....for a total of 140 pounds of honey. Thanks! Jim Murray murray@albany.net Check out my two web sites. Stop, visit and bookmark! Jim's Cigar and Pipe Web Page (my personal cigar/pipe web site): http://www.albany.net/~murray/ Fine Olde Briars Web Site (Top Quality Estate Pipes & Tobacco): http://www.fineoldebriars.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:42:19 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: vaseline In-Reply-To: <200101251845.NAA11156@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <200101251845.NAA11156@listserv.albany.edu>, Computer Software Solutions Ltd writes >As Dave points out, vaseline should not be applied too liberally. It is also >important to ensure that the hives are vertical otherwise the supers could >slip. But I do believe that the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages. > In a completely non-migratory situation, out of places where strong winds might hit them, and on level stands, you may have a point. However, in most situations, absence of adhesion between the boxes is a serious nuisance and makes a lot of work at migration times. Although we do not set out to lubricate these surfaces, when boxes are new, and before the bees glue them up, I have seen the wind alone clear the top boxes off a site of colonies, even with rocks on top. Happened this year near Braemar, in front of my own eyes, a single powerful gust just slid the top boxes sideways off 6 hives. It would also mean about 3 man hours per site stapling the colonies up to prevent them sliding all ways when moving them. We just shift them with only the floors secured to the bottom box, other wise loose. Roping the colonies on trucks for the moves also would cause slipping, which natural bee glue helps prevent. I appreciate only too well we are not talking about the same types of operation here, but I doubt I would do it even if I was a small hobbyist, as it will bring attendant difficulties which, IMO, will outweigh the benefits. -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:07:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Fairfax Subject: New medical paper on Anaphylaxis The January 8 issue of the Archives of Internal Medicine has an article that estimates the number of Americans at risk for Anaphylaxis is substantially higher than previously estimated. Anaphylaxis is a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction to insect stings, some foods, latex, and other irritants. You can read a synopsis of the article on-line at http://archinte.ama-assn.org/issues/v161n1/abs/ira00008.html The authors estimate that 1.36 to 13.6 million Americans are at risk of anaphylaxis from insect stings. Their findings are based on reviews of published papers. I am not a doctor and am not qualified to critique the paper, but it is a rather dramatic departure from the few sources I am familiar with, such as the chapter on allergic reactions in "The Hive and the Honeybee." The authors recommend that doctors discuss the issue with high- risk patients, but the information I have at hand suggests that there is no effective way to identify high-risk patients in advance. The complete article is available on-line to AMA members. Perhaps some appropriately qualified beekeepers will be kind enough to review the full article and critique it for the list. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:08:41 +1200 Reply-To: bobhog@pin.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pav Organization: BombusMaximus Subject: Re: vaseline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Would someone care to elaborate on exactly where you are putting this vaseline? Between the boxes obviously, but specifically are you also using it internally on frames? If so, any thoughts on how much the bees like it the smell etc? -Pav At 25/01/01 18:32:00, Tom wrote: >As Dave points out, vaseline should not be applied too liberally. It is also >important to ensure that the hives are vertical otherwise the supers could >slip. But I do believe that the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages. __________________________________ (\ Pav BobHog@pin.co.nz {|||8- Ahaura, New Zealand (/ BombusMaximus@yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:27:18 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Morris Subject: Unusual hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As you all are aware, I have been given a couple of hives, and am new to all of this. One of the hives is very unusual, at least I think it is. Let me give some background on it and then Id appreciate comments. Several years ago (4-5), the former owner of this hive was told about a couple of hives that this little old lady had that she wanted removed from her property. Seems her husband had kept bees but had died several years before and she wanted them now removed for what ever reason. My friend went over to her place and checked them out. Now all of the hives were defunct except for one. In fact the rest were inhabited by various things including yellow jackets, mice, snakes and in the case of one a bunch of ants. At any rate this one hive seemed in good shape--had a good number of bees and brood, so he brought it back and used the newspaper method to incorporate it with a hive that was weak and in fact had a failing queen. He figured that maybe there was some genetics here that should be propagated as it managed to stay alive with no help for the years after the man died. The end result was a mixed hive-I say mixed because the found hive was Carniolians and the weak hive was Italians. Now the weird thing is thus-for what ever reason the hive decided it needed a new queen, before the Carniolian queen had completely taken over the hive.--For what happened is a queen that appears to lay both!!. This is a hive that has only been allowed to requeen itself, and yet this hive still has the mix of Italians and Carniolians after 4 or 5 years. He is sure its a newer queen at this point, as he marked the older queen and then this newer queen. I am wondering if anyone has heard of such-and to be honest-what the results might be. TIM MORRIS ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:34:13 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: vaseline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about skipping the edges of the hive bodies, only doing the rabbets? I've not tried the vasoline trick, but it would appear to be a fairly simple solution. > >As Dave points out, vaseline should not be applied too liberally. It is also > >important to ensure that the hives are vertical otherwise the supers could > >slip. But I do believe that the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages. > > > In a completely non-migratory situation, out of places where strong > winds might hit them, and on level stands, you may have a point. -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:43:36 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: vaseline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Pav & All ----- Original Message ----- From: Pav > Between the boxes obviously, but specifically are you also using it internally on frames? If so, any > thoughts on how much the bees like it the smell etc? Initially I did not use it on frames but I now coat the endgrain of the topbar and the top bar upper surface but ignore the lugs as they can become slippy and difficult to hold. I also coat the lug space within the boxes. I have never noticed any reaction at all by the bees, don't forget petroleum jelly is made from beeswax. As regards slippage between boxes this does not occur in my system as all boxes are clipped together with stainess "Z" spring clips. http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/zsprings.html Illustrates how this is achieved. Regards From:- Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding, website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman Archives of IBList, website http://website.lineone.net/~d.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:30:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Coldiron Subject: Splits Hello Group, I'm looking for information on how to split hives. I have 10 hives and am trying to eventually get up to at least 200. Thanks for the help. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:59:43 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael palmer Subject: Re: vaseline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thought it was made from petroleum. Dave Cushman wrote: > I have never noticed any reaction at all by the bees, don't forget petroleum > jelly is made from beeswax. > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:36:56 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: vaseline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Micheal ----- Original Message ----- From: michael palmer > Thought it was made from petroleum. The Liquid paraffin (mineral oil) component is probably a petroleum derivative. They may use synthetic waxes in US but I think the UK pharmaceutical industry still use beeswax. I have never tried using other waxes, they would probably work, but I suspect beeswax is more sympathetic for use on skin. Regards From:- Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding, website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman Archives of IBList, website http://website.lineone.net/~d.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:01:47 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Unusual hive Tim Morris writes: "This is a hive that has only been allowed to requeen itself, and yet this hive still has the mix of Italians and Carniolians after 4 or 5 years. He is sure its a newer queen at this point..." The reason that both Italian and Carniolan bees are mixed in this hive is most likely due to the fact that when the new queen went on her mating flight, she mated with both Carniolan and Italian drones. The sperm load she is carrying consists of both phenotypes and is expressed in the offspring's appearance. I once had a hive that was originally Italians and the bees raised a new queen. After she came back and started laying, then about half my bees were dark and half were light. In this case, apparently the new queen mated with what we call over here the "German" dark bee drones as well as Italian drones. I suppose it is possible that the queen in a hive could be pure Carniolan and mate only with Italian drones and all the offspring could possibly phenotypically be Italian looking. I think there is nothing to be concerned about in having the mix. As a matter of fact, the greater the different number of daughter cohorts in a hive probably the better, because the different bees will have different traits and more of the various tasks in the hive will be accomplished more efficiently. As long as one of those traits is not extreme aggressiveness, I'd say chances are the unusual hive is a very good one due to its heterogeneity. Layne Westover College Station, Texas, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:24:07 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: vaseline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a very 2 sided subject. Either you like it a lot or you hate it. How about using the lubricant on two sides and let the bees glue the rest. They should stay together pretty good and would have to bee easier to open. I think I'll try it. I'll just grease the 2 long sides this spring. Richard ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:05:23 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: cde049 Subject: Ratio of Supers to brood boxes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there any ratio of honey supers to brood boxes that would bee a target for someone just accumulating equipment. I know you need just enough to capture all the honey for your area, but in North Texas in an average year is this 3 supers for hive 4 or what? This is my third year I started out with two deeps and 10 mediums and there was more than enough the second year I went to 5 deeps and 16 mediums and if it hadn't been such a bad year it would not have been near enough I figure 4 would probably be enough but I am in a situation where I can spend some extra income on supplies and would prefer not to get caught too short I plan to go to about 10 deeps this year and will get 24 mediums. Which will give me a ration of 4:1 I over winter with one deep and one med. Half of the hives will be in my back yard so I can extract and replace if necessary., but the other half will be about 2 hours away. I have checked what books I have and have never seen this addressed except to say to have more supers than necessary. Cliff ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:15:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Lipscomb Subject: Re: Unusual hive In-Reply-To: <200101260758.CAA06842@listserv.albany.edu>; from MORRISTH@AOL.COM on Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 06:27:18PM -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > decided it needed a new queen, before the Carniolian queen had completely > taken over the hive.--For what happened is a queen that appears to lay > both!!. This is a hive that has only been allowed to requeen itself, and yet > this hive still has the mix of Italians and Carniolians after 4 or 5 years. > He is sure its a newer queen at this point, as he marked the older queen and > then this newer queen. I am wondering if anyone has heard of such-and to be > honest-what the results might be. > Queens mate with multiple drones. If there were a number of both Italian and Carniolian drones in the area when the queen went on her mating flights then this is not so unusual. -- | Public schools are just another form of welfare. Keep your kids out of the welfare system! AA4YU http://www.beekeeper.org http://www.q7.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:14:26 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Splits In-Reply-To: <200101261142.GAA08901@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm looking for information on how to split hives. I have 10 hives and am > trying to eventually get up to at least 200. Everything you could want to know about splitting -- and more -- is in the archives which are accessible from http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BEE-L/ Information about the list mandate, history and posting guidelines can also be found at that site. allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:47:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Curtis Gunderson Subject: Betsy Bee Plastic Frames Hello All: I was wondering if anyone knows what happened to the Canadian manufacturer of "Betsy Bee" plastic frames. Thanks for any info, Curtis. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:42:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Curtis Gunderson Subject: Buddy's nucs Hello All: Can Anyone describe Buddy Ashurst's "unique system of making up nucs" Thanks for any info. Curtis. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:00:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: vaseline In-Reply-To: <200101261238.HAA09428@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Thought it was made from petroleum. > > The Liquid paraffin (mineral oil) component is probably a petroleum > derivative. They may use synthetic waxes in US but I think the UK > pharmaceutical industry still use beeswax. If we are taking Vaseline or petroleum jelly, then there is no beeswax involved. This kind of thing is easy to verify on the web. For the facts, one source is http://www.uselessknowledge.com/explain/vaseline.shtml . (For fast thorough searches, I recommend the free version of WebFerret available at http://www.ferretsoft.com/ It almost never lets me down). Beeswax and propolis are two things that stick hives together with about equal adhesion on days cooler than the 80's Fahrenheit. When it gets hotter than that, they both tend to lose their grip -- in my experience. allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:17:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Grant Hicks Organization: Hicks Honey Farm Subject: Re: Betsy Bee Plastic Frames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am speculating here but I believe that Betsy Bee is owned by the Martens family of La Crete, Alberta. Further more they sold two piece snap together plastic frames. Grant Hicks ----- Original Message ----- From: Curtis Gunderson To: Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 9:47 AM Subject: Betsy Bee Plastic Frames > Hello All: > I was wondering if anyone knows what happened to the Canadian manufacturer > of "Betsy Bee" plastic frames. Thanks for any info, Curtis. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:13:02 -0500 Reply-To: Peter John Keating Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter John Keating Subject: SHB and wax moth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, could someone direct me to a site where l could get some clear pictures of the above two larvae so as to make a comparison between the two. This would aid beekeepers to see the difference regarding size,legs etc. Many thanks in advance, Peter keating@destination.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 00:26:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Hive Painting Greetings All, Hope all is well for everyone. This winter has been tough on many colonies in eastern Missouri, especially south of St. Louis. Many club members report numerous dead hives. Most people are blaming it on the extended cold winter we have had. Around here, I can count the number of days above 45 degrees easily on one hand since Thanksgiving. Though most beekeepers wont admit it, I think mites did most in. A person who overwinters colonies succesfully around here could feed colonies early and sell all the nucs they could produce! Ok, to the crux of this post. I have been busy building equipment this winter. I enjoy building my own supers and assembling frames, but when it comes to painting equipment, there has got to be a better way than using a brush! I use latex paint and 3" brush. Can latex be sprayed with an air sprayer? If so how much do I cut it? Any other paint application suggestions? Thanks! Scott ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:08:52 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Bee Foraging, Diffusion Theory Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi: A mathematical modeler contends that bee foraging flights can be modeled by diffusion theory. Comments? Thanks Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:50:57 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Morris Subject: Question of any commercial beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just out of curiousity, I was wondering how many hives one would need to make a living full time (and what you consider an adequate living amount) as a beekeeper? I recognize that this may be a difficult question. There are several hive products that can be sold. Im just curious more than anything. Thank You, Tim Morris ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:04:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Logan VanLeigh Subject: Re: Hive Painting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit but when it > comes to painting equipment, there has got to be a better way than using a > I use a Wagner power painter (the smallest one that has a bucket tube). I thin the paint to Wagner specs (little split-fork device included with the painter) and it works great! I stack the boxes on a piece of grass I'm not too fond of with about 3' between stacks and go at it. I can do one coat on a 6' stack in a couple of minutes. Logan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 09:10:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: hive painting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott asks about the possibility of spray painting hives with latex. Scott, I assume you are near a Home Depot, isn't everyone? If so, you can do what I did and go to them on a weekday (as I did) and ask about spray painting equipment for latex. I assume that one can do likewise with a Loews or similar store. Yes, one can easily spray paint hives with latex. Moreover, no dilution of paint is necessary. To put a coat of paint on 20 hives might take 5 minutes; certainly no more. However, thereafter it is going to take 10 minutes to clean the equipment. If one fails to do so, nozzles and perhaps lines will clog and will have to be replaced. This will cost perhaps 1/3 the price of a good brush. Good luck, Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 05:28:40 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tom long Subject: Bee-Scent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello all, I've greatly enjoyed all previous post and am thankful to be part of such a well moderated service. Yesterday we received our Planting guide & catalog:2001 from Miller Nurseries which is located in Canandaigua, New York. On page 58 they are retailing a new product that I have never encountered before. The product is called Bee-Scent and is advertised to dramatically increase quality and yeilds of fruits and vegetables by attracting honey bees for improved crop pollination. The product is manufactured by Scentry Biologicals, Inc. The listed ingredients includes a concentration of 9.5% Pheromones. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:15:42 -0000 Reply-To: Gavin Ramsay Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: Bee Foraging, Diffusion Theory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry >Hi: A mathematical modeler contends that bee foraging flights can be >modeled by diffusion theory. Comments? By diffusion theory, you mean equations that describe the movement of particles out from a source, characterised by many random shifts in direction of the particle? This seems highly inappropriate for bee foraging activity which we all know to be a highly directed and selective activity, relying on communication (by dance or scent trails, I'll leave it up to you to decide), prior experience, choice, reward, attractiveness to receiving bees in the hive. Bees just don't work in random directions out from the hive, with ever-decreasing intensity at longer distances. As colonies they work largely in corridors towards the best local forage, as individuals to favourite patches. The effect at the colony level must be the efficient exploitation of the available resource, something far from consistent with diffusion theory. But I guess that you knew this already! As one mathematical modeller told me, the best use of mathematical models is to help understand the processes and patterns, and to define the areas where understanding is poor. This can only happen when mathematicians sufficiently understand the biology, and there is good interaction between the biologists and the mathematicians. Gavin. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:24:05 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Mann Subject: Re: Bee Foraging, Diffusion Theory In-Reply-To: <200101271005.FAA20894@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >A mathematical modeler contends that bee foraging flights can be >modeled by diffusion theory. Comments? Sure thang Jerome mah man: There may be some aspects of the flights that resemble mere blind diffusion. But this is an intelligent animal, responding to changing stimuli; the flights of such an animal will not closely resemble diffusion. I freely admit this is a statement of hypothesis not fact; I stand to be corrected by fact. R ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:41:37 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Mann Subject: *give beneficial insects such as honeybees immunity to diseases and pesticides Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey science fans If our GM-condoning colleagues can quote the NY Times - which has gone sadly downhill since I lived in the USA - then I'll pass along this precis from the Wall St Jungle. Please note >*give beneficial insects such as honeybees immunity to diseases and >pesticides Are we enjoying the new millennium yet? R From: Laurel Hopwood Subject: biotech bugs To: CONS-SPST-BIOTECH-FORUM@LISTS.SIERRACLUB.ORG January 26, 2001 Bioengineered Bugs Stir Dreams Of Scientists; Will They Fly? By SCOTT KILMAN Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL (edited by Laurel) According to this story, lab experiments in Phoenix are being carried out on "biobugs." examples: *engineer a male moth that can pass a fatal flaw on to any egg it fertilizes. Then fly over cotton country and drop millions of these modified males, enough to crowd out wild males in the quest for mates. The result: a lot fewer bollworm babies next season. Other goals: *give beneficial insects such as honeybees immunity to diseases and pesticides. * a way to attack harmful insects without chemicals. * to fight diseases that annually kill or maim millions of the world's poorest people. * Several teams are modifying insects so they can no longer transmit the parasites behind malaria, dengue fever and Chagas' disease. * Europe has issued a patent on the idea of using a modified mosquito to deliver a vaccine every time it bites someone The story discusses unknown risks from being released into the wild. * "superbugs" * some biobugs would bite people, tests involving them raise tricky issues of informed consent. According to this piece, this summer, Dr. Staten (who directs the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service laboratory in Phoenix) wants to move his fluorescent charges to a giant cage in a cotton field, to make sure the genetic tinkering doesn't cause some unanticipated behavioral change. Scientists and regulators believe this would be the first time a genetically modified insect was studied outdoors, at least in the U.S. He needs permission from the USDA, and it plans to publish a notice in the next few months soliciting public comment. Who would police biobugs that bite people is unclear. The medical establishment also has some biobug decisions to make. It's standard procedure that people who are subjects of clinical research must give their consent What about people who may be bitten by future biobugs? Some scientists think that transposable elements, nicknamed "jumping genes," can on rare occasions leap from one species to another. What would happen, they ask, if a gene implanted to give honeybees protection from an insecticide somehow landed in a crop pest? " Dr. Staten has managed to keep the bollworm from establishing itself in California's cotton-rich San Joaquin Valley. Releasing these bugs isn't controversial because they haven't been genetically modified, just sterilized. Dr. Staten figures that so much more remains to be learned about genetic engineering that nobody can make any guarantees now about what a biobug might do. It will still be a couple of years before a booby-trapped pink bollworm is ready for test release in the wild. And even if everything goes as he expects, Dr. Staten says, biobugs won't fly unless the public accepts some measure of uncertainty about them. - - - - Robt Mann consultant ecologist P O Box 28878 Remuera, Auckland 1005, New Zealand (9) 524 2949 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:14:57 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Hive Painting In-Reply-To: <200101271004.FAA20817@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Scott Moser wrote: I enjoy building my own supers and assembling frames, but when it > comes to painting equipment, there has got to be a better way than using a > brush! I use latex paint and 3" brush. Hi Scott: I have just finished painting 90 boxes a lovely khaki color. I piled them 10 high and painted them with a 10" roller. First coat an oil based primer and then two coats of latex. Each coat takes about an hour to do. I wrap the roller in a plastic bag and keep it in the refrigerator between coats to avoid cleaning it. In the summer I prefer spraying them outside. I spray the latex with a regular Binks gun and a two gallon pressure pot. If you spray using the suction feed cup supplied with the gun you have to thin with quite a lot of water to get the gun to feed. You can use a thinning agent like Flo-trol to cut down on the water, but the pressure pot is really better. Most professional painters use an airless gun for latex, but I don't have one. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 09:32:18 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: Re: Hive Painting In-Reply-To: <200101271004.FAA20806@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > comes to painting equipment, there has got to be a better way than using a > brush! I use latex paint and 3" brush. Can latex be sprayed with an air > sprayer? If so how much do I cut it? Any other paint application > suggestions? Thanks! > Scott Rollers are much faster. Get one of the mini rollers (about 1" dia.) as they won't be too messy with too much paint at once and they are very easy to work with. If you're painting a lot of supers at once, a standard 9" roller would work better as you could stand all the supers side by side and do them all at once. -Barry ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:16:20 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Bee Foraging, Diffusion Theory In-Reply-To: <200101271005.FAA20888@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hi: A mathematical modeller contends that bee foraging flights can be > modeled by diffusion theory. Comments? Well, I got to wondering exactly what the above cryptic and provocative question might mean, so I dug up some references, listed below. I would be interested to know more specifically what is being suggested. "Diffusion theory" is a term that is apparently applied to at least two fields of study, one social and the other(s) physical. (Maybe they are in fact the same theory, but have not had --and likely never will have -- time to adequately consider this possibility). I am assuming the physical/chemical model is suggested here, however, the social theory could also be applied, but if so, the implication would be that we can compare bee experience and behaviour to that of humans. The physical theory has a number of applications, the behaviour of particles (including light) and molecules at junctions, membranes, point sources, and are all considered in the references below. Anyhow, I'm hoping you can provide us with some more detail. http://www.initium.demon.co.uk/fick.htm http://student.biology.arizona.edu/honors98/group6/ http://www.ece.gatech.edu/research/labs/vc/theory/diffusion.html http://student.biology.arizona.edu/honors98/group6/ http://grove.ufl.edu/~eunsook/diffusion2/sld001.htm http://www.physics.helsinki.fi/~ala/diffusion_school.html http://omlc.ogi.edu/pubs/abs/wang93c.html allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:15:37 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Bee-Scent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/27/01 10:17:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, dt_long@YAHOO.COM writes: << The product is called Bee-Scent and is advertised to dramatically increase quality and yeilds of fruits and vegetables by attracting honey bees for improved crop pollination.>> You can view company statements for bee attractants at: http://www.pollinator.com/pheromone.htm You can view Dr. Roger Morse's comments at: http://members.aol.com/pollinator/nosub.htm More information at: http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis95/apjul95.htm Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:29:47 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Bee Foraging, Diffusion Theory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/27/01 5:05:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, jjbmail@SELWAY.UMT.EDU writes: << Hi: A mathematical modeler contends that bee foraging flights can be modeled by diffusion theory. Comments? >> Over the years I have been impressed by the number of times I've seen selective pesticide damage. This suggests that a few hives are working in an orchard or field that has been sprayed, while other hives in the same bee yard are not. I am not scientific enough to put it in formulae, but I've always said that bees are "creatures of habit." If the scouts guide a particular hive to forage in one area, they will all tend to go that way, and will continue to do so. Other hives may go in other directions. That doesn't seem very random. There is a certain amount of intelligent guidance. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:38:44 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: hive painting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you are going to spray latex with a cup gun try adding a little Flotrol to the paint. It makes latex paint spray easier. Unless you have a viscosity cup-(a funnel like gadget you fill and time in seconds how long it takes for paint to run through) teh thinning will be trial and error. A roller and a brush would be my choice - less mess less cleanup. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:41:51 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Question of any commercial beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/27/01 5:06:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, MORRISTH@AOL.COM writes: << Just out of curiousity, I was wondering how many hives one would need to make a living full time (and what you consider an adequate living amount) as a beekeeper? I recognize that this may be a difficult question. There are several hive products that can be sold. Im just curious more than anything. >> Commercial beekeepers have long maintained that the true test of a master beekeeper is making a living with the bees. It is getting more difficult. I know beekeepers that got, if not rich, then certainly quite comfortable, back in the 40's and 50's. I know of no one doing that well today. The rule of thumb, back when honey prices were more appropriate, was that a lone honey producer could make it on 800 -1000 hives. Adding pollination to the mix increases expenses and often decreases honey production, but increases income enough to improve the situation, especially if one can do more than one pollination per season. One could work fewer hives, or become more mechanized and increase the number one person can work. Queen and package production, pollen or propolis collection become more labor intensive and it would not be possible for one person to handle as many hives, but also could produce more income. It's kind of the difference between growing corn and wheat or growing specialty crops. I used to know a man who made a living on ten acres, mostly with strawberries. I don't know exactly where to look, but the pencil pushers at the extension offices love to do model budgets, and somewhere there must be floating around some of these for honey production, at least. I don't know how realistic these are, because there are so many variables and I've never followed conventional paths anyway. I prefer to go broke my own way. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:46:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: foraging behavior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Green reported "I am not scientific enough to put it in formulae, but I've always said that bees are "creatures of habit." If the scouts guide a particular hive to forage in one area, they will all tend to go that way, and will continue to do so. Other hives may go in other directions. That doesn't seem very random. There is a certain amount of intelligent guidance." In his outstanding book The Wisdom of the Hive, Thomas Seeley discusses the organization of foraging behavior in single hives and reports that while most bees in a hive will forage together (in the same general area and on the same plants), not all will do so. He attributes that to defensive behavior in case of a sudden cessation of flow from that species. In other words, honey bees do not put all their eggs in one basket. Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:37:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Hancock Subject: Re: Question of Commercial Beekeeper Years ago I knew a guy who made a wad in the rat race and retired to beekeeping. He had about 30 hives. He overwintered them on a Gulf Island off Vancouver were he lived and sold his honey. In the summer he hauled the hives to a 160 acre farm he owned in the Peace River country of northern Alberta. The farm grew clover and alfalfa for seed and the surrounding farms grew canola etc. The beekeeper managed his hives intensively, two- queening, rotating frames from the outside of the brood chambers into the centre and removing honey frames from the supers daily. He claimed to produce 18000 lbs of honey/year. One of those 'It's Funky To Be A Farmer' magazines did a story on this beekeeper which got many people dreaming of watching bees make their fortune. I was selling bee equipment for a large supplier in Vancouver at the time. One day a lady came in and said she wanted equipment for 400 hives. She and her husband had read this article, quit their jobs, bought a ten acre orchard and planned to run their hives on the orchard. The number of hives needed to make a living depends on the amount of honey you can produce in your area and what price you can get for your honey. Of course if income from pollination and other hive products is avaliable then this has to be taken into account. An old beekeeper told me that it takes ten years to make money at beekeeping; five years to figure out how to best manage them in your area and five years to get organized and do it. In my case I think its looking more like twenty years. I stay alive full time with 400 hives but I won't tell you what I mean by staying alive because if it sounded good you wouldn't believe me and if it sounded bad it might reflect poorly on my reputation. In my experience you should draw up a financial plan then multiply your expected expenses by two. Dividing expected income by two works just as well. Ted It may have been discussed in the past but the beekeeper I spoke of above was a great believer in the 1/4 inch bee space. He believed that when Langstroth said the bee space was 3/8 of an inch he was working with a diffeerent bee. This beekeeper used straight end bars with staples to space the frames 1/4 inch from each other. The frames did seem much easier to remove with very little burr comb. If you want to do something eccentric this may be an alternative to petroleum jelly. He also had twelve frames in his brood chambers with a side entrance. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:37:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Leif, Sarah, Maggie and Willie" Subject: Re: Hive Painting In-Reply-To: <200101271005.FAA20870@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I use latex that has been thinned to a 4:1 ratio. i paint the parts on top of a piece of plywood using an HVLP (high volume low pressure) spray gun. i start with a primer coat of water based primer then i give it two coats of latex. for the paint i go to the home depot and choose from the vast selection of improperly mixed paints for three dollars a gallon. I can't stress how important it is to take the extra five minutes to clean the gun good when done. if cleaned and lubricated properly all you need to do next time is fill it up and start spraying. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:36:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sandy Kear Subject: Polystyrene Shallows? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010127152835.009fe950@pop-server> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed In looking through our new Betterbee catalog, I saw the polystyrene hives and was thinking of trying one out. However, I only see what appear to be deeps for the hive body and medium supers. Are there any shallows made with the polystyrene? (My other half can lift mediums when full, but I can't so I only use shallow supers on my hives). thanks! Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:13:32 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Watching bees work snowdrops for pollen this afternoon I wondered how many pollen loads (average size) does it take to rear a new bee? Does anybody know? Chris ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:37:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some research indicates that a strong colony of bees needs about 70 pounds of pollen per year. That is an amazing figure, but I have no way to argue for or against it. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:30:21 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Unusual hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Tim. Szabo (in Canada) reported in American Bee Journal a couple of years ago (I think) that 85% of the color of a worker was contributed by the genes of the drone, the remainder by the queen. Since all the workers are half sisters, one should not be suprised by any combination of colors. The only thing I have read about the difference between Carniolans and Italians which could - should? - make a difference is that each "means" a different distance with executing its foraging information dance. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:15:27 -0500 Reply-To: Honeybees@inorbit.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Polystyrene Shallows? In-Reply-To: <200101272341.SAA02651@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Sandy, I think the mediums must have been left out by mistake. I bought mediums for that hive last year. I loved assembling them, no glue or nails, just a few coats of paint after the four sides were fitted together. I'll be happy when they are made in the U.S., the price should be a lot lower. Garry Libby Attleboro, Massachusetts, USA 41.56 N 71.17 W ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:49:26 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Esad Cancar Subject: Re: Question of any commercial beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mr. Morris & all. In my oppinion it depends on many conditions. In my country uper 50 hives is enough for 4 member family. But you may serve 50 hives after regular full time job. But if you start with 50 in spring time, after 4 month they will rise at less to 200. In any case, beekeeping will become your proffession. Have nice & honey day. Esad ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:49:19 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Green Subject: Re: Pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit one cell, according to "The Hive and...." can produce 1.2 bees. Contact me at: Rick Green 8 Hickory Grove Lane Ballston Lake, NY 12019 (518) 384-2539 Gothoney@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:20:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Bee Foraging, Diffusion Theory Comments: cc: jjbmail@SELWAY.UMT.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd Spear wrote in "foraging behavior" thread: "...In his outstanding book The Wisdom of the Hive, Thomas Seeley discusses the organization of foraging behavior in single hives and reports that while most bees in a hive will forage together (in the same general area and on the same plants), not all will do so...." see "Distributive Control Models for Honeybee Decision Making During Foraging" online at http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Entomology/courses/en507/papers_1997/vos.html by Bud Vos of Colorado State University...from the abstract: "How does a whole honeybee colony discriminate, and direct activity to, different food source locations via the dynamic behavior of thousands of individuals? The answer to this question goes to the heart of self-organization theories for social insect behavior studies, yet it remains a mysterious and disputed topic. Numerous sources cast honeybee colonies as superorganismal systems that adaptively sense, plan and act to function and survive in the world. Conversely, other sources describe honeybee colonies as goal-directed, decision making, systems whos function is governed by the decentralized control, and action, of its individual entities. Colonial decision making results from this design. This paper explores and examines models of decentralized control for foraging honeybee colonies to reveal its unique and auspicious features. To show this relation, a history of the work on honeybee colonies is first presented. Using this as a basis, the distributed control model of Seeley is dissected to understand its underlying function, constraints and variables that correlate to the colonial system. What can then be shown, is that the model Seeley proposes arises from an individual bees inherent interaction with the environment in which it finds itself - including individuals within the colony. This theme is commonly used in the design and development of distributive control models for engineering applications and we can thus show their correlation to the colonial design." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:11:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Stevens Subject: Re: Polystyrene Shallows? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SANDY - WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF DEVELOPING OUR OWN MOLDS FOR THE POLYSTYRENE HIVES, HAVING VERY GOOD SUCCESS WITH THEM. HOWEVER, WE DO NOT AT THIS POINT HAVE ANY INTENTION TO DEVELOP A SHALLOW MOLD. AFTER A YEAR OR TWO I SUSPECT THAT WE MAY BE ABLE TO MODIFY THE MEDIUM MOLD TO MAKE SHALLOWS. WE USE A LOT OF SHALLOWS OURSELVES - SO FOR THE TIME BEING WE WILL CONTINUE TO USE THE SHALLOW WOODEN SUPERS ON TOP OF THE POLYSTYRENE HIVES. SINCE THE MAIN BENEFIT OF THE HIVES IS SPRING AND FALL - IT IS SOMEWHAT IRRELEVANT WHAT YOU USE FOR SUPERS. BOB Sandy Kear wrote: > In looking through our new Betterbee catalog, I saw the polystyrene hives > and was thinking of trying one out. However, I only see what appear to be > deeps for the hive body and medium supers. Are there any shallows made > with the polystyrene? (My other half can lift mediums when full, but I > can't so I only use shallow supers on my hives). > > thanks! > > Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 12:01:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Fire Ants Hello All, We are in the process of sending bees to polinate Almonds in California next week. The bees are in Texas. Last year & this year the plan is to lift each pallet. Sweep the bottom of the pallet with a stiff broom and load on a truck and move to a fire ant free pad. Check & sweep the pallet bottoms as they are unloaded on the pad. We are sitting the pallets on a heavy plastic and watching for fire ants before loading on the semi for California. We would be interested in hearing about any other methods migratory beekeepers are using to prevent taking fire ants into California. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:15:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Juandefuca Subject: Re: Fire Ants Comments: To: Bob Harrison Hello Bob What I am here to say is one of those "Rest of the story and for what it is worth ". In Southern Cal there are ,when I was there ,no Fire ants. BUT trillions of tiny tiny ants, which are a pest in bee hives since they are not noted by the bees. Even the old standby oil cans did not prevent them from finding ways to get into the hive. A formula of Flaked or granulated SOAP ( Not detergent) in the ratio of 3 table spoons of soap to 1 Gall of water killed these critters instantly. I do not know whether this works on larger ants. Furthermore this formula is also very effective against Mealy bugs and aphis. I applied this mix with an ordinary garden sprayer. I do not know if bees would be affected. regards JDF ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:06:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: FW: APIMONDIA 2001 WEBSITE UPDATE - JANUARY 2001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Adriaan du Toit [mailto:letoit@global.co.za] Sent: January 28, 2001 12:11 PM Subject: APIMONDIA 2001 WEBSITE UPDATE - JANUARY 2001 APIMONDIA 2001 37th INTERNATIONAL BEEKEEPING CONGRESS International Convention Centre, DURBAN, SOUTH AFRICA 28 October -1 November 2001 WEBSITE UPDATE : JANUARY 2001 FINAL ANNOUNCEMENT ON WEBSITE Available in English, German, French and Spanish. Including: * Registration forms * Call for papers * Synoptic programme * Hotel and accommodation information and bookings * Pre and post congress tours Visit our website at : www.apimondia2001.com Dr Adriaan P du Toit Tel & Fax: 012 8081762 Cell phone: 083 306 1446 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:31:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: Fire Ants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello JDF & All, JDF wrote: . In Southern Cal there are ,when I was there ,no Fire ants. BUT trillions of tiny tiny ants, which are a pest in bee hives since they are not noted by the bees. California is serious about not wanting fire ants. They held up a friends semi for four days at the border because they found two ants. One third of the colonies died while waiting to see IF the two ants were fire ants. The ants were not fire ants so the load was released to enter but not even a "We are sorry" from the California border people. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:48:42 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Bee Foraging, Diffusion Theory In-Reply-To: <200101271005.FAA20888@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200101271005.FAA20888@listserv.albany.edu>, Jerry J Bromenshenk writes >Hi: A mathematical modeler contends that bee foraging flights can be >modeled by diffusion theory. Comments? I find it difficult to see the connection - given the mechanism of recruitment - and that the bees come back once loaded up. Then there's the changing temperatures and the response of the flowers through the day, and flowers running out of nectar taken by bees. Can you get the modeller to make these connections or at least give the salient points of the model? -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:51:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Organic Cupric Salts Hello All, I received my information on Copper Gluconate last week. I have read the material over very carefully many times. Because all tests were run in other countries and the information contained is about tests ran at least seven years ago I would like to bring the subject up again. In looking through my varroa U.S. files I don't see where organic copper gluconate has ever been tested in the U.S.. Has any testing ever been done in the U.S.? If I am understanding the information correctly the whole theory is based on the discovery by D.S. Popeskovic in 1984 of the differences in the copper composition of honeybees and their parasitic mite(Varroa). Popeskovic proved that feeding bees with copper derivatives could exhibit a systemic toxicity to the parasite varroa (Popeskovic & Bounias 1986) If copper gluconate did as Popeskovic says wouldn't the salts also be systemic against the tracheal mite? Testing was done in France at the apiaries of Syndicat des apiculteurs du puy-de-Dome. Observations were made on 1500 colonies but almost 3,000 were involved in the tests. Control was in the 84.7% to 96.5% range according to the information sent to me. Are there any French beekeepers which could comment on the tests ? Hormetic effects were also reported in the tests(Nectoux1990)such as increase in number of brood combs and improvement in lifespan. I would appreciate any help or information on the subject Bee-L people might provide. Thanks in advance. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:17:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sandy Kear Subject: Re: Polystyrene Shallows? In-Reply-To: <3A7452BF.1FD481EE@betterbee.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Bob, Thanks for the idea/info! I don't know why that didn't even occur to me - I definitely try that on one colony this year. Do you find the bees prefer a particular/different foundation in the polystyrene as opposed to wooden hives? We use the black plastic foundation for all of our wooden hives because they seem to prefer that to the white for brood. (Wondering if a white, reflective interior would make a difference). Sandy At 11:11 AM 1/28/01 -0600, you wrote: >SANDY - WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF DEVELOPING OUR OWN MOLDS FOR THE POLYSTYRENE >HIVES, HAVING VERY GOOD SUCCESS WITH THEM. HOWEVER, WE DO NOT AT THIS POINT >HAVE ANY INTENTION TO DEVELOP A SHALLOW MOLD. AFTER A YEAR OR TWO I SUSPECT >THAT WE MAY BE ABLE TO MODIFY THE MEDIUM MOLD TO MAKE SHALLOWS. WE USE A LOT >OF SHALLOWS OURSELVES - SO FOR THE TIME BEING WE WILL CONTINUE TO USE THE >SHALLOW WOODEN SUPERS ON TOP OF THE POLYSTYRENE HIVES. SINCE THE MAIN BENEFIT >OF THE HIVES IS SPRING AND FALL - IT IS SOMEWHAT IRRELEVANT WHAT YOU USE FOR >SUPERS. BOB ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:50:25 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Juderon Subject: AFB resistance and GE crops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please, could anyone who knows email me off-list whether their is any scientific evidence to link the antibiotic resistance of AFB to GE crops? I need to know urgently. Thanks Ron Law