From MAILER-DAEMON@luna.metalab.unc.edu Sun May 20 09:13:44 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.metalab.unc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4KDDis18779 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 09:13:44 -0400 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4KDDfJ12712 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 09:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200105201313.f4KDDfJ12712@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 09:13:39 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0102C" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 115565 Lines: 2637 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:50:07 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Varroa Control Costs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Can members of the list help to supply me with some indicative retail costs for the following 3 varroa control products: Apitol (cymiazole) Apivar (amitraz) Apilife VAR (thymol, eucalyptol, menthol, camphor) I'm collecting this on behalf of someone who is writing a paper on varroa control options and is having a hard time getting reliable figures for the various options... You can reply either to the list or to me direct, and I'll collate the various responses to repost in a week or two... Nick Wallingford nickw@beekeeping.co.nz http://www.beekeeping.co.nz Tauranga, New Zealand ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:59:54 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Moye Subject: Re: Bleach and AFB spores. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii There are 2 basic genera of bacteria that form endospores which are resistant to decomposition, disinfectants, and boiling. These 2 genera are Clostridium and Bacillus. Bacillus cereus is a bacterium that can survive in rice during the cooking process and cause disease after being boiled. AFB is a bacterium in the Bacillus genus as well. Boiling water reaches a maximum temperature of 212 F (100 C) at normal atmospheric pressure. In the increased pressure of an autoclave or pressure cooker, water/steam temperatures reach 250 F. 20 minutes of pressurized steam at 250 F is sufficient to sterilize clean surgical equipment for medical uses. In New Zealand, AFB positive woodenware can be cooked in paraffin to kill AFB spores. This can get hotter than boiling water which has a limit of 212 F. I did read the article concerning beach killing of AFB spores. I read this with reservation and feel that this would be adopted in New Zealand instead of the paraffin method if it was really reliable. Better not count on bleach to kill any endospore producing bacterium, especially when coated with a lipophilic substance like propolis. You might consider ethylene oxide, which is credited with killing endospores and is an approved method of medical sterilization. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 06:56:32 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: BEE-L FAQ and Guidelines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BEE-L is a moderated discussion list with rules and guidelines. Anyone and everyone with interest in bees is welcome to join. Our FAQ is our archive of posts running back more than a decade. We are very pleased at the high quality and wide variety of input from members all over the world. Every post that makes the list goes into these archives and can be easily found by a search at any time now or in the future. In a sense, we are writing a book together. We would like to point out to new members (and remind long-time members) that all our rules, including the sign-on messages as well as access to our FAQ can be found at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BEE-L Please visit the above link periodically to review our guidelines and before posting to the list. You will also find info on what might have happened if you posted and your article did not appear on the list within 24 hours. allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:24:13 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Martin_Hrom=E1dko?= Subject: Re: The first fly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Ainars and all, nice to hear somebody from near country as Latvia is. The last years we have first fly very early and i member a year when my bees flew 24-th December like on spring. And the spring startes erlier than times ago and winters aren´t so hard and cold like my grandparents member. > I suppose that you have spring 2-3 weeks earlier as we in Latvia. In some > years we have first fly in the end of February, beginning of March, the > temperature should be +9-10C, sunshine, no wind. > The problems can cause cold weather, because bees should maintain high > temperature in hive for broods (approx.+33C). If first fly is so early, it > is big possibility that cold and snow will still come. > If there is a longer period of cold, bees are consuming a lot of honey and > you can loose them due to starvation. Or they cannot maintain temperature > enough for brooding. Very important is insulation of your hives to prevent > warm losses. Stimulating with candy is advisable ( if you have natural honey > and pollen sources at that time and warm weather then is no need for candy, > of course). Treatment of varroa should be started. It is very important how > you prepared your hives for wintering, because beekeepers year starts in > autumn. I think i have isolated my hives well, walls are fat and they are from duble-wood and between is polystyren or raspings. Bees have enought honey sugar sirup ) in the time, becouse they arn´t brooding so intensive now, but critical is March or April, when they make much brood and they need more temperature in a bigger hive-area. But is possible to isolate hive more and I use PVC succesfuly. We don´t treat bees against varroa in my country in spring usually, becouse we do it since end of summer by acaricides. Sometimes we treat bees in spring if manny varoa mites fall down during winter period and it is observed by Czech veterinary. > P.S. I would be very glad to know if there are any beekeepers from > Scandinavia, Baltic states or Eastern Europe on the list. What is your > experience? I don´t know any beekeepers from these countries, except Esad from Bosnia. It would be interesting to know more beekeepers from the area. How many hives have you got? How long do you do beekeeping? How much average ) honey do you have usually? Which kind of honey do you product - flower, rape, briar or dark from wood ? Good luck Martin ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:06:38 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Neon Rosell Subject: Re: multiple eggs In-Reply-To: <200102150507.AAA07142@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello everybody, I'm experiencing some problems with one of my hives. The queen was observed to be laying more than one egg per cell, sometimes up to four. I'll just give a little background of what might have transpired resulting to this behavior. The hive started on a three-frame nuc and was constantly being fed 1:1 sugar syrup up until they have drawn out the seven additional frames. During this time several queen cups were noticed and were destroyed every time. At this time the honey flow was due to start so feeding was stopped. But due to bad weather the bees weren't able to go out and take advantage of the flow, so their reserves were depleted. I could not say what happened really because my work requires me to be away for 4 weeks. I just have somebody to look at the hives when I'm away, instructing to destroy every queen cup seen, inspections were done every week (7) days. Now, when I inspected the hives upon my arrival there was a noticeable decrease in population, I would have expected by now a hive bursting with bees. The population was down to 7 frames with irregular sealed brood pattern. Only one or two frames with eggs, the rest with sealed brood with honey stores building up. My questions are: 1. Is this a new queen? I don't really know if all the queen cup/cells were taken out. 2. If it is not a new queen then maybe the queen was injured during one of the inspections? Could injury cause this behavior? 3. Would starvation cause this behavior as well? Any book would say to requeen but we don't have a regular queen breeder wherein you could just buy right away. Most of the few apiaries here make their own queen, only if there is a surplus they will offer their queens. I have no choice but to keep this one and hope for the better. I would greatly appreciate any comments/suggestions, Thank you. Wishing you all a problem free and bountiful crop this season. Neon Beekeeper (sometimes) from the Philippines __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:04:30 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Bleach and AFB spores. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > In New Zealand, AFB positive woodenware can be cooked > in paraffin to kill AFB spores. This can get hotter > than boiling water which has a limit of 212 F. > > I did read the article concerning beach killing of AFB > spores. I read this with reservation and feel that > this would be adopted in New Zealand instead of the > paraffin method if it was really reliable. No one in New Zealand (that I'm aware of) uses or plans to use the information from Dr Mark Goodwin's research to disinfect woodware. Mark was testing the disinfecting ability (of a lot of methods and compounds) to determine straightforward *contact disinfecting*. >From memory, the method was working with glass slides with AFB spores (though I'm pretty sure he did do some wooden sticks as well), applying the material, and testing to see what effect different rates and times gave. The practical application would be, as another Kiwi described, for disinfecting such things as (possibly) plastic frames, hive tools, excluders and other gear that is not suitable for paraffin wax dipping. Readers might find http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/disease useful to learn more about Dr Goodwin's work... Nick Wallingford nickw@beekeeping.co.nz http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:49:17 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Barnett Subject: Re: Almost Black Honey In-Reply-To: <200102121527.KAA18663@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > From: David L. Green > There is one summer honey that makes me check every super, whenever I > extract any summer honey. It is very light, with white wax, and you expect a > lovely honey, when you see it. But the honey is so foul, I can only compare > it with a mix of urine and alum. > It has been suggested that this is from bitterweed, though I haven't confirmed > that the bees work it. Again it is a spotty thing. One hive in an entire > yard may be the only one that has this. But one frame in a tank of honey is > too much! Once more, David, you are right on target. Best describe this as bitter as quinine, although you may have never tasted quinine. I have not heard of a Southeast U.S. vectored case since 1946. Bitterweed- Helenium tenuifolium L. (VA, NC, SC, Ga,TN,AL,MS,LA) grows especially on the Coastal Plain- Piedmont regions from Virginia around to Texas readily and I believe even farther north. See Frank C. Pellett's American Honey Plants, 5th Edition, Dadant & Sons, about 1978, page 56-58. Here in central Alabama (as I observe) it grows on waste land, roadsides, and pastures after Msy, blooms in heavy stands occasionally, but usually is scattered, during late July into September. The plant usually grows from 1-2 feet high, branched, with inflourescences of yellow, disc and ray flower structure, 1/2" diameter. Bees do work it, but usually without enthusiasm. This bloom period is a very dry part of the year. It has been reported that 20-30 pounds of honey can be collected by a colony and that bees use it without problems; I have seen stands of half to one acre, and in line of sight, 15 or so bees may be at work, mostly during morning hours. Find a few plants and take a amall chew from any part! You have never known bitterness! I would not put a colony if bees even distantly from it! If your milk cow eats bitter weed (and they don't seem to mind it!), one cannot drink the milk. Every single part of this plant is bitter, bitter, bitter, and while I have tasted such honey, I was not mine! > Some would be worth propagating. I'd love to be the owner of a > field planted to vitex, which makes a light, mild honey and keeps on yielding > in the hottest, driest weather. I have 6 0r 8 vitex negundo incisor plants in my yard, and the bumblebees, and other solitary bees work it with enthusiasm, my five colonies of honey bees are not seen on it, except on rare accasions. I knew a beekeeper who claimed to make honey having 10-12 big plants in his backyard, I have never collected a teaspoonful that I could recognize. My honey bees just dont like it. (I've had it 6-7 years and am in the process of digging it up). It does however bloom when there is a darth of nector flow (July late, August and Sept somewhat). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:31:37 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peacey Subject: Re: Bleach and AFB spores. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve Moye gives some very useful information about the difficulties in killing AFB spores and I for one will be keeping his posting as a reference. Some points to remember about bleach and paraffin wax. Bleach is very effective on some equipment, but please remember that bleach will only kill AFB where it can be in direct contact for 20 minutes and at the right concentration (you've already read the research from Ruakura about 0.5% sodium hypochlorite in water). To get adequate contact with spores in woodware, you need to remove all propolis, wax, honey or anything else for that matter. I don't know of anyone in New Zealand who soaks frames in bleach and you certainly wouldn't do this with comb in them. We burn our frames. Paraffin wax is very effective at killing AFB spores provided you immerse the woodware for 10 minutes at 160 degrees Celsius (325 degrees Fahrenheit). Both the time and the temperature are critical and this means you need some way of measuring the temperature. When we come across AFB in a hive we are advised to: "1. Scrape excess propolis and wax off the wooden parts of the smoker bellows with a hive tool. 2. Scrub the outside of gloves with soapy water. The soap will not destroy spores on gloves , but it will help to remove materials such as wax, propolis and honey that might contain significant concentrations of spores. 3. Scrub the bellows and base of the smoker with the same soapy water. 4. Scrape all propolis off the hive tool. 5. Scorch the hive tool by putting it into the smoker and pumping on the bellows to produce a flame." ("Elimination of AFB Without the Use of Drugs" by Mark Goodwin and Cliff van Eaton) Hope this helps. Simon and Sarah Peacey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:27:09 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: multiple eggs Comments: cc: neonrosell2@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/15/01 2:07:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, neonrosell2@YAHOO.COM writes: << During this time several queen cups were noticed and were destroyed every time.>> Why are you fighting with your bees? They know the queen is failing, and they try to replace her, but you won't allow it. Do you not think the bees know best what they need? The symptoms you describe are characteristic of a queen that is failing. Perhaps she did not mate with enough drones when it was her mating time, or she is simply old. Either way, the answer is, as you have guessed, to have a new queen. The bees are capable of making one, assuming you have drones in the area. The question now is whether they have sunk so low that they cannot be saved. I would advise getting a frame or two of brood from a good hive to give this hive, both to boost them in strength, and to give them some good eggs from which to raise a queen. Then let them do it. Good luck, Neon. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:10:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael W Stoops Subject: Re: Bleach, AFB spores, and Lye Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ---------- >From: Bill Truesdell >Subject: Re: Bleach and AFB spores > The actual treatment is one pound lye to ten gallons of water and boil ... Lye and Chlorox are two seperate entities. Mix and you have an explosion. Lye is a stronge base and Chlorox is a mild acid. Each works on spores in a different mode. Mike Stoops ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:04:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael W Stoops Subject: Re: Bleach, AFB spores, Cl gas Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ---------- >From: Allen Dick >Subject: Re: Bleach and AFB spores > Seems to me that contact with sodium hypochlorite is not doing the job, but rather the chlorine gas which is released. If so, then we basically are dealing with fumigation, ... Fumigation... Has anyone thought to construct a funigation chamber large enough to hold four to six hives and use chlorine gas fumigation? Cl gas under moderate pressure would penetrate a lot more effectively than a liquid form. Mike Stoops ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:45:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rob Green Subject: Re: multiple eggs In-Reply-To: <200102152239.RAA07308@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:27 PM 2/15/01 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 2/15/01 2:07:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, >neonrosell2@YAHOO.COM writes: > ><< During this time several > queen cups were noticed and were destroyed every time.>> > > > Why are you fighting with your bees? They know the queen is failing, and >they try to replace her, but you won't allow it. Do you not think the bees >know best what they need? Dave, Are you suggesting that we should never interfere, never destroy the queen cells? In my first first couple of months, (last spring and summer), I removed three or four queen cells. The hive did very well last summer. Why would it have been wiser to leave the queen cells in, let the queens hatch? Is there not a possibility of a new queen not staying in the hive, but leaving with a swarm of workers? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:19:38 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bleach, AFB spores, and Lye MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/16/01 4:00:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, mws@FRONTIERNET.NET writes: > > Lye and Chlorox are two seperate entities. Mix and you have an explosion. > Lye is a stronge base and Chlorox is a mild acid. > It doesn't quite work that way. Tilex brand mold and midew cleaner is lye and bleach. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:46:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: multiple eggs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Are you suggesting that we should never interfere, never > destroy the queen > cells? > To interfere, and to fight against would be two different things. In this case the beekeeper was removing cells, and not much else. Sure you could get lucky and keep them from swarming. But the bees know that they have an old queen. The "glue" is weak. The hive knows this. There are many options when we see cup cells. If they are swarm cells, split (and requeen). If supercedure, requeen. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:34:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Bleach, AFB spores, and Lye MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BeeCrofter@AOL.COM wrote: > > Lye and Chlorox are two seperate entities. Mix and you have an explosion. > > Lye is a stronge base and Chlorox is a mild acid. > > > It doesn't quite work that way. Tilex brand mold and midew cleaner is lye > and bleach. Lye is extremely dangerous. Even adding it to water can have serious consequences. Not sure about explosive with bleach, though, based on the technical definition of explosive. It is highly reactive and will generate a lot of heat when water is added. My post was prompted by the 20 min that was being mentioned and I thought it was alluding to the treatment of AFB by using Lye which is 20 min, but boiling just woodenware, and they were getting the two confused. I missed the earlier posts so eventually saw it had nothing to do with the discussion, so backed out. I have no idea why anyone would be adding lye to bleach or vice versa. Lye is a strong base and bleach is a very mild acid, as noted. What you would get is a quick release of chlorine gas. Same thing on a lesser scale happens when people mix bleach and ammonia as a cleaner, thinking one is good, two is better. Not so. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:03:53 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Organization: Oregon VOS Subject: Re: Bleach, AFB spores, and Lye In-Reply-To: <200102161905.OAA10929@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ALWAYS add lye to water. NEVER pour water into lye. NEVER mix chlorine with lye or a solution of lye and water. Putting powdered lye into water releases a great deal of heat which is dissipated in the water. If water is put into powdered lye, the water is quickly heated to boiling and the resulting steam can be released with "explosive" results. The lye/bleach trick does indeed release chlorine gas quickly from solution with compromising results to tender beekeeper mucus membranes. On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, Bill Truesdell wrote: > BeeCrofter@AOL.COM wrote: > > > Lye and Chlorox are two seperate entities. Mix and you have an > explosion. Lye is a stronge base and Chlorox is a mild acid. > Lye is extremely dangerous. Even adding it to water can have serious > consequences. Not sure about explosive with bleach, though, based on the > technical definition of explosive. It is highly reactive and will > generate a lot of heat when water is added. --------------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, Raw Honey | leave our kids a decent place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 22:55:50 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: The first fly In-Reply-To: <200102151904.OAA27891@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 In message <200102151904.OAA27891@listserv.albany.edu>, Martin Hromádko writes >We dont treat bees against varroa in my country in spring usually, becouse >we do it since end of summer by acaricides. Sometimes we treat bees in >spring if manny varoa mites fall down during winter period and it is >observed by Czech veterinary. Hello Martin - which acaricides do you use in the Czech Republic? Welcome. -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:17:50 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: Bleach, AFB spores, and Lye MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, When boiling frames,etc. we use a 55 gallon drum outside. When we need another can of lye we open the lye can and toss the lye in can and all. Safest way we have found. You can retrieve the cans later when you are done and are cleaning out the drum. . Tossing the can in is the only way I have seen lye added to a hot drum of lye. We sit the drum on concrete blocks and build a fire under the drum. Don't fill the drum over 2/3 full of water. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 00:30:23 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: The Honeybees of the British Isles In-Reply-To: <200010142046.QAA19250@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Aaron Morris wrote in October > My interpretation is that James is saying that >>IOW disease endemic in Britian in the 1920s may have been vectored by >>acarine but now is believed to be the Slow >>Paralysis Virus (SPV) which is being spread by varroa. Actually, I'm not >>sure what is being said. Perhaps that SPV has always been around, acarine >>vectored the outbreak in the '20s and that varroa is a more efficient vector >>today? James, if you will, please set me straight. Norman Carreck just posted this to the Irish Bee List. CPV doesn't seem to be very important in association with Varroa. It's the viruses that are transmissible by injection, like acute paralysis virus, slow paralysis virus, deformed wing virus (and possibly Kashmir bee virus) which seem to be responsible for losses. Transmission of these viruses by the mite has actually been proved in the laboratory. And also in another post Although it is theoretically possible that A. woodi could vector viruses, there is no evidence that they do. However, confusingly, there are viruses ASSOCIATED with the mite, because conditions which favour the mite also favour these viruses. Bailey is convinced that the "Isle of Wight disease" was actually chronic paralysis virus, but many affected colonies were also infested with the mite, so everybody assumed that the symptoms of crawling bees etc were caused by the mite, whilst the virus was at that time unknown. And Bailey has produced several studies showing a very clear association between colony density and the incidence of both CPV and A. woodi. Although he retired in 1982 he is still very interested in the subject, and is shortly to publish some new analyses of old data which suggest that in the early years of the 20th century in Britain, when the "Isle of Wight disease" killed vast numbers of colonies, there might have been a million colonies in Britain. The official figure is now 200,000, although I suspect it is much lower. BTW now Albert Knight *has* confirmed that genetic studies *have* been done on colonies of dark bees in Tasmania in a fairly isolated region and show they *are* Amm. Regards -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 21:53:21 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Esad Cancar Subject: Dead bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all. This year wether in Bosnia is changed to mediteranian. Temperature is vry high & bees have flight every day. They are coming back with pollen, but I saw lot of them dead around their hives. What is occur? I am very solicitous & don`t know what to do. Esad, Bosnia ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 00:05:29 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: massimiliano Subject: R: Dead bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ciao, Esad If the bees fail to fly and crawl on the ground and up grass stems coud be chronic paralysis virus and there are no direct treatments for virus infections. Another possibility is nosema disease or insecticides. Are you sure that your colonies are varroa free? In Italy, we have varroa mites resistent to fluvalinate, coumaphos and probably amitraz. I hope your colonies recover very quickly, good bee-season and Regards, Massimiliano -----Messaggio Originale----- Da: Esad Cancar A: Data invio: sabato 17 febbraio 2001 21.53 Oggetto: Dead bees > Hi, all. > This year wether in Bosnia is changed to mediteranian. Temperature is vry > high & bees have flight every day. They are coming back with pollen, but I > saw lot of them dead around their hives. What is occur? I am very solicitous > & don`t know what to do. > Esad, Bosnia ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 00:19:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: massimiliano Subject: Apiten MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ciao, Is there somebody that have informations About "Apiten" (Mitaka Pharmaceutical Co. Ltd ) the formulation approval in 1999 in Japan like preventive drug against AFB? Thanking in advance, Regards, Massimiliano. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 17:28:35 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HStarJE@AOL.COM Subject: glass insemination tips Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello: Where can I get glass artificial insemination tips? Thanks Cesar Flores Colorado USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 22:35:49 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Visits to the FIBKA web site and the Irish Beekeeping Discussion List Comments: To: IrishBeekeeping@listbot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All We have now had 2100 visits to the Federation of Irsih Beekeeping Associations website at www.irishbeekeeping.ie and over 3000 messages to the Irish Beekeeping Discussion List. Thanks to one and all for such input to the Irish Beekeeping scene. We are very grateful to all of our visitors and long may the useful interchange continue. Sincerely Tom Barrett ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 18:17:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Martin_Hrom=E1dko?= Subject: Re: The first fly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Hello Martin - which acaricides do you use in the Czech Republic? > Welcome. > -- > James Kilty > Hello James and all, We use as acaricides to bees Gabon ( fluvalinat - and maybe next substance or maybe the substace was changed a little , I am not sure) - it is aplicated on veneer belt and we put it hives usualy in August, after honey harvest. These belts are 24 days in the hive and bees bring fluvalinat on their body in all hive area and the substance can go inside closed cells too. So varroa miter are killed there too. Later, in September we use MP-10 or Varidol , where is fluvalinat too or we used Tactic ( amitraz ) and the treatment was done by fumigation - burning piece of paper from there was evaporated the substance and all hive was full of the smog with the substance. All the treatment we have to do - it is duti in a law. We can use acid formica like next treatment for better result. There isn´t so good like with Gabon or others, but it is way against resistance to fluvalinat ant acid formica protects bees against others dieseases ( Ascophaerosis larve apium ) - calcify of bee larve. The best greetings Martin --- Odchozí zpráva neobsahuje viry. Zkontrolováno antivirovým systémem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz). Verze: 6.0.231 / Virová báze: 112 - datum vydání: 12.2.2001 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 21:33:54 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Dead bees Comments: cc: haff@lsinter.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/17/01 4:37:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, haff@LSINTER.NET writes: << This year wether in Bosnia is changed to mediteranian. Temperature is vry high & bees have flight every day. They are coming back with pollen, but I saw lot of them dead around their hives. What is occur? I am very solicitous & don`t know what to do. >> Do the hives seem healthy otherwise? Have you eliminated mites as a cause? Remember that the bees which have overwintered are old. The hive should be brooding up, but little or no new brood has emerged yet. These old bees, when they have a few good days of flight, burn themselves out quickly. I have seen this often, just after the first nice weather (and bloom) of spring. Sometimes there are so many dead bees, one would think of a pesticide hit, but pesticide use would be very uncommon at this time of year in this area. Dave Green South Carolina, USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 11:07:43 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: glass insemination tips MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All ----- Original Message ----- From: Hello Cesar > Where can I get glass artificial insemination tips? They are so simple to make I think most workers make their own. Regards From:- Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding, website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman Archives of IBList, website http://website.lineone.net/~d.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:55:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garrett Dodds Subject: Re: glass insemination tips In-Reply-To: <200102180131.UAA27533@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 2/17/01 5:28 PM, HStarJE@AOL.COM at HStarJE@AOL.COM wrote: > hello: > > Where can I get glass artificial insemination tips? > > Thanks > Cesar Flores > Colorado USA Look at http://www.ohioqueenbreeders.com Garrett Dodds Royal Gold Farms 305 E. Hale St. Ridgeway, OH 43345 garrett@royalgoldfarms.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:48:45 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Dead Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is a frequently voiced comment: "I saw lot of them (bees) dead around (in front of) their hives", and its is usually presented as a question. I've learned to ask for a definition of "a lot". To some people, 10 bees is a lot. To a commercial beekeeper with lots of strong hives in an apiary, "a lot" might consist of what one of our guys calls "the sickening crunch" as he steps through the grass. A severe pesticide kill will pile up bees over a large area in front of the poisoned hives. I've seen cases where you could pick up the bees by the shovel fulls. When you walk past a hive like this (and if there is tall grass in the yard, the drying bodies of the piled up bees "crunch". I have a suggestion for anyone concerned about dead bees by the hives. Clear the front of any hive and put down a sheet of light colored cloth (1-2 meters (yds) square). Stake down the cloth, and check it every morning and night. You may be surprised at how many dead/dying bees are on the cloth. Remember also, that you may want to put some border around the tarp to keep the bodies from blowing off in the wind, and that animals like skunks may eat the dead bees on the cloth. That's why checking more than once a day makes sense. Strong colonies have 10s of thousands of bees. A portion of these bees forage. Forager bees are the oldest bees in the colony. Their forager (flight) life span is relatively short. If you have good weather and something for bees to actively gather, a forager may have as few as 10-12 days of flight in its "foraging" lifetime. In practice, foragers may live considerably longer, especially when weather condition and resources are variable (fly one day, not another, etc.). But, in the midst of a nectar flow with sunny, calm days; up to 10% of the foragers could die each day of old age/natural causes. Now, some die in the field, some get lost, others become food for a predator, etc. But some make one last trip to the hive and perish. And, they are then tossed out by hive bees. Now, if you really do have "a lot" of bees on the ground - what are the causes? These could be varied, but include pesticides, mites, disease, heat stress - usually after moving hives, pollution. Cheers Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:15:55 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Martin_Hrom=E1dko?= Subject: Re: Dead bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Esad, do you know if these dead bees are from one hive or more? If they died insid e hive too and they do feces inside hive, it is nosema. The best way is cont racting hive´s area for better temperature inside. We used for treatment Fum agilin too, but it is much expansive and is better to kill the colony than t reat they. Look, what they do on "hive-door" ( cesno ), how they move, if they can fly normal and next. Martin --- Odchozí zpráva neobsahuje viry. Zkontrolováno antivirovým systémem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz). Verze: 6.0.231 / Virová báze: 112 - datum vydání: 12.2.2001 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 18:32:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ham Morton Subject: Installing Queens in Spring Splits I have read several articles on instlling queens. It seams that a common thread is that the old hive should be queenless for at lreast 24 hours before installing the new queen. There are differences in removing the attendants or not. I know my time will be limited so I'm trying to make up my mind as to whether I remove the attendants or not. I live in the Raleigh of North Carolina and plan to make splits in mid March and install new queens in the new split. Does anyone have any recommendations whether to remove the attendants or not remove?? Thanks in advance for your help!!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:07:17 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Apiarist@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Subject:Dead Bees (haff@LSINTERNET on BEE-L Digest - 17/18 Feb 2001) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another consideration may be this: With the change in weather, your local area may be getting an earlier or more prolific bloom of plants that have toxic pollen. Chances are that the usual "small population" of the unfriendly blooms would be ignored by bees in favor of the safe & friendly ones, when occurring during normal weather conditions. I have read of only a few instances where changes in the normal weather have brought about a bumper crop of toxic flowering plants, so it is unusual. The ones I read about occurred in mountainous regions and involved "milder than usual" weather for the season. This "toxic flower" situation may NOT have occured, but it is not out of the question if your other checks for disease and pests turns out to show that everything is ok in that department. Try the pest checks first. If nothing turns up there, perhaps a look at the local flora in bloom would be in order. - Emily Johnson, Indiana,USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 06:30:32 +0800 Reply-To: aweinert@tpgi.com.au Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew and Judy Weinert Subject: Chlorine + acid = danger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello all, Chlorine bleach plus acid gives off Chlorine gas, this is greenish if you can see it and is deadly. Chlorine plus alkali (lye) is a powerful cleaner, good for removing protein films etc which is whch is why it also is good as a disinfectant. (It also can be really hard on human skin) It works on all organic material and so will break down in wood quickly, so may not be too effective on spores which may be protected by the wood). I have forgotten all the chemistry but believe that free chlorine (the dangerous stuff) starts to be released at pH 9 and below. Low concentrations are OK which are in drinking water, (which has a pH of around 7 or slightly below) but when you are mixing handfulls together there is danger. I can not remember the pH below 7 where all the chlorine is free, perhaps someone else can help here. pH is a measure of alkalinity or acidity. pH 1 - 6.9 is acid pH 7.1 - 14 is alkaline pH 7 is neutral (pure distilled water) People that can give better advice on these issues are cleaning and detergent companies such as Ecolab, Diversey and many others. Water treatment companies also can assist. Commercial chemists can also assist. For the record I have seen Lye / Caustic Soda / NaOH sodium Hydroxide jump 30 feet / 10 metres when a 20 kg /45lb bag was dumped into boiling water. (always mix in cold water, slowly, so the heat of dissolution can only warm the water not make it boil) I have also seen a person washing a milk tanker (25,000 litre) mix acid, caustic and chlorine to do an all in one wash. It really bubbled and funny coloured gasses came off. Instead of reducing the time of washing we spent more time washing the deadly and useless cocktail away. For the chemists the acid and alkali would have neutralised each other to salts and I have no Idea what the chlorine would have done in the middle, however green gas came out , and it was not a pleasant place to be at the time. Please seek expert advice when working with these chemicals, wear gloves, eye proetction and a protective apron and if you see or smell a gas that is unpleasant run like hell. Andrew & Judy Weinert 69 Lawler St North Perth Western Australia 6006 phone +61 (0)8 9443 1463 aweinert@tpgi.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:16:44 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Subject:Dead Bees (haff@LSINTERNET on BEE-L Digest - 17/18 Feb 2001) Comments: cc: Apiarist@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/19/01 10:23:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, Apiarist@AOL.COM writes: << With the change in weather, your local area may be getting an earlier or more prolific bloom of plants that have toxic pollen. >> I have seen this happen with yellow jasmine, which the bees normally ignore or only use to a very limited extent. Occasionally, in a year when there is little other bloom available, and/or the jasmine has a heavy bloom, I see a lot of bees working it, and the inevitable poisoning that follows. I have not associated this so much with death of adult bees, though this may occur. I have seen heavy losses of brood though. Emily makes a good point here. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:37:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Chuck Subject: Varroa Treatments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am writing up a research proposal for a new varroa treatment. It would use a natural product. I need information on what products are registered in different countries. I’d appreciate any information on what products are registered, what the active ingredient is and what the relative price is. Also how many colonies are in the country? Are they all treated? How much treatment is there with “official” products vs. others? I would be thankful for any information. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:29:20 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: Chlorine + acid = danger Comments: To: aweinert@tpgi.com.au MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Judy,Andrew & All, Great post with useful information! I will add a few more points on cleaning equipment with lye water. I have received a few direct emails so will post a few comments. Cleaning old bee equipment takes a lot of time. Not hours but days in most cases. Each day you need to get the water boiling which takes a long time. Frames don't dirty the water like other hive parts do. All parts should be cleaned as best you can in advance. Once done you may wonder if the result was worth the effort. One deep body might take 10-15 minutes to clean completely. When your water gets dirty you have to rinse right away or gunk sticks to the boxes. Lye water is dangerous. The only method I have done and seen done is a 55 gallon open top drum set on blocks< 2/3 full water/ 2 to 3 cans lye put in while water is cold and heated to boiling with a wood fire built below. After awhile when using the cleaning action of the lye starts slowing down usually after several hours of cleaning equipment. Then we open a can and toss like you would a grenade in the drum. Usually the water level is low so you see no reaction at all but I have seen the water rise up and run down the sides. NEVER POUR THE LYE IN THE BOILING WATER! I am only telling the method. Use at your own risk! If a beekeeper wants to use Lye water to clean equipment the above is a method I have used and seen used for many years. I have never seen or heard of a problem but I am sure there have been over the years the method has been in use. If you do not want to grenade the can into the drum just let the drum cool and refill with cold water and Lye for the next day then reheat. You need a stick, wire basket or some way of keeping the bee equipment under the water. Those old boxes with ten coats of paint will come out looking brand new when done correctly. AFB is the main reason we use Lye water and frames are the most often done. Beekeepers wire the frames in bunches and push below the surface in the drum . Lifting up to check when clean. I personally have never seen AFB re occur in Lye boiled frames. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:43:04 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: Varroa Treatments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Chuck & All, Most *natural* products have in fact been tested by the USDA in the U.S. and found to not be very effective. Many which were promoted on the internet were not effective at all. I would check with the Beltsville bee lab to see if your product has already been tested. If you have found a product which is giving varroa control then the bee labs can tell you how to run experiments with controls. Without documentation to back up your claims your *natural* control will fall on deaf ears. In order for most of us to get on board we need to see results from a Bee Labs tests with controls. Many beekeepers lost hives trying *natural* methods. I have a open mind and don't want in any way to discourage you. In fact I would encourage you but beekeepers are wary of unproven methods based only on word of mouth. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa,Missouri I am writing up a research proposal for a new varroa treatment. It would use a natural product. I need information on what products are registered in different countries. I'd appreciate any information on what products are registered, what the active ingredient is and what the relative price is. Also how many colonies are in the country? Are they all treated? How much treatment is there with "official" products vs. others? > I would be thankful for any information. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 14:07:23 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Mixed pesticides MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Posted from an environmental journalism listserv. Not that I have an axe to grind about pesticides, but the point at which mainstream media coverage probably intersects the most closely with beekeepers and their interests is in environmental coverage. Maneb is a fungicide. Paraquat is an herbicide that (I think) is banned in the U.S., but may still be in use in the U.K., among commonwealth nations and especially in the developing world. PESTICIDE SYNERGISM LINKED TO PARKINSON'S DISEASE More than one million Americans suffer from Parkinson's disease. New studies are suggesting an environmental cause. When mixed together, two commonly used pesticides can trigger irreversible symptoms in mice nearly identical to early symptoms of Parkinson's, according to researchers at the University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry. When tested alone, the individual pesticides, paraquat and maneb, have not shown the same effect. Areas where both paraquat and maneb are used on the same fields mesh with areas of high death rates for Parkinson's disease (Pacific Coast, Northeast, Great Plains, mid-Atlantic, Southeast, and Texas). Researcher Deborah Cory-Slechta says this study (in the Dec. 15, 2000, Journal of Neuroscience), and others the team has not yet published, suggest that synergistic effects of chemicals may be a major health concern. Nationally, researchers have completed only a few synergism studies. Some are listed at http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/NewScience/synergy/mixtures.htm. -- Other background: "Chemical cocktails: Are mixed pesticides more potent?" March 2000 issue of Environmental Health Perspectives, http://www.sej.org/go/010207-7.htm; "Strange brew: Assessing risk of chemical mixtures," February 1995 issue of Environmental Health Perspectives, http://ehpnet1.niehs.nih.gov/docs/1995/103-2/focus.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:39:18 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Cal French Subject: Killing AFB spores In-Reply-To: <200102190500.AAA24835@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The following abstract may be of interest to beekeepers looking for ways to disinfect equipment contaminated by Bacillus larvae. --Cal French, Paso Robles, California, USA -------------------------------- Sporicidal Activities of Disinfectants on Paenibacillus larvae Atsuko OKAYAMA, Tomoko SAKOGAWA, Chie NAKAJIMA, and Toyoaki HAYAMA Research Institute for Animal Science in Biochemistry and Toxicology, 3-7-11 Hashimotodai, Sagamihara, Kanagawa 229-11, Japan (Received 16 April 1997/Accepted 10 June 1997) Abstract:Sporicidal activities of glutaraldehyde, sodium hypochlorite, povidone iodine, ethylene oxide gas, chlorhexidine gluconate, and didecyl dimethylammonium chloride on wet and dry spores of Paenibacillus larvae (basonym: Bacillus larvae) were evaluated for control of honeybee American foulbrood. Glutaraldehyde was found to have a strong and rapid effect on both the wet and the dry spores among the disinfectants tested. Keywords: disinfectant, Paenibacillus larvae, sporicidal activity. J. Vet. Med. Sci. 59(10): 953-954, 1997 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:13:01 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Green Subject: Re: Installing Queens in Spring Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have made 100's of splits without removing the attendants and have had near perfect success. I am not sure that you can reliably tell an attendant from a non-attendant by inspection alone. They don't wear signs(!) and do blend in with their other sisters and half-sisters well. I do not believe that research has shown that attendants have the same dad and therefore would have similiar coloration. Wait 24 hours and hope you have a good queen. They will do the rest. Contact me at: Rick Green 8 Hickory Grove Lane Ballston Lake, NY 12019 (518) 384-2539 Gothoney@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:25:30 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: huestis Subject: How's it going in the north MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Like to here how others are doing in the north. How the girls coming = through? Any estimation of loss yet? =20 Clayton Crown Point, NY- Looks like a bad winter survival so far 30% loss Possible apistan resistant mites? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:54:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: situation in the north MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here in central Maine it's still cold, 0 F and below at night, below freezing many days. There were no good days for cleansing flights from Thanksgiving until Jan 25. We then had a few warm afternoons, and have had since. When we do the bees dirty the snow very well. Since dead bees don't dirty snow, this is encouraging. I'm hoping for a day warm enough to give some pollen substitute patties soon. Guess the groundhog got a peek at his shadow. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:39:53 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: The first fly In-Reply-To: <200102180123.UAA27378@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 In message <200102180123.UAA27378@listserv.albany.edu>, Martin Hromádko writes >We use as acaricides to bees Gabon ( fluvalinat - and maybe next substance >or maybe the substace was changed a little I am wondering if you have resistance to fluvalinate in Cz. If so, please will you find out what the actual chemical is. snip >Later, in September we use MP-10 or Varidol , where is fluvalinat too Are you sure -this would mean a second treatment with fluvalinate, which would be OK if your dose was less than ours. Do you use lactic or oxalic acid - or open mesh floors? -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:15:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Installing Queens in Spring Splits In-Reply-To: <200102192001.PAA12718@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I am not sure that you can reliably tell an attendant from > a non-attendant by inspection alone. They don't wear signs(!) and do blend > in with their other sisters and half-sisters well. I do not believe that > research has shown that attendants have the same dad and therefore would have > similiar coloration. I don't get this at all. Maybe I am missing something here? I always understood that the bees riding in a queen cage with a queen bee are called attendants, and that they are supposed to be young bees inserted to care for her on the trip and provide her with food which they get from the candy in the cage. ...At least that is how I thought it was with the thousands of queens I bought and the many hundreds I caged myself. What are the non-attendants and where do they ride? And please tell me about their dad. allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:33:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Installing Queens in Spring Splits In-Reply-To: <200102192000.PAA12671@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Dear Rick, I have been doing bees in NY state for 2 years now, having lived in San Diego most of my life. Beekeeping is very different here; the weather seems to be changing all the time and you never know what kind of day it'll be. 1999 was extremely dry here and 2000 was cool and wet. The main flow in 1999 was black locust (in May) and in 2000 -- basswood (in July). When I ask people what the best honey plant is around here, no one seems to have an opinion. Certainly not clover, or buckwheat like the old days. Is it really going to be different every year? How about where you live? Are there plants you can depend on or not? -------------------- Peter Borst Ithaca, NY plb6@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:47:01 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: Attendants Re: Attendants The bees in the cage with the queen are usually just plucked off the frame she was on. They aren't any particular "caste" or whatever. Some breeders add attendants to the cages later, using entirely unrelated bees. And some don't put attendants in the little cages at all, preferring to dump a few handfuls of bees in the shipping box. Point is, they may or may not be related to the queen at all, but it doesn't matter. Removing them might be a good idea, if you have time. Most beekeepers don't do it. Whether a new queen is accepted mostly depends on the conditions in the hive. Peter Ithaca NY USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:46:51 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: MatHig@AOL.COM Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 18 Feb 2001 to 19 Feb 2001 (#2001-51) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/19/01 11:06:50 PM Central Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: > Paraquat is an herbicide > that (I think) is banned in the U.S., but may still be in use in the U.K., > among commonwealth nations and especially in the developing world. > Paraquat (a very toxic herbicide) is manufactured by Syngenta (formerly Zeneca) under trade names Gramoxone Extra and Gramoxone Max. Perfectly legal and widely used in US. Regards, Matt Higdon mid-MO, mid USA spring's right around the corner! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:54:29 +0100 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home sweet home Subject: PFUND HONEY COLOR Comments: cc: info@detraay.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Somebody on the list who can tell me where i can buy a Pfund honey grader, for determination of a colour grades of honey. pict. on http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/Pfundscale.html regards, jan -- Met vriendelijke groet, -- Jan Jan Tempelman Kerkstraat 53 NL 7471 AG Goor xx.31.(0)547.275788 mobile: 06 10719917 -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 07:57:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: US Package Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I'm wondering what the US package bee prices are like these days, and the availability. Anyone have any prices for 2lb/1Q and 4lb/2Q packages in small lots and large lots -- and comments on quality and delivery dates available? allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:38:57 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Lannom Subject: Re: US Package Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen; Just got a quote today. A supplier trucks 200-300 2lb. 1 queen packages in to Michigan from a California supplier and charges Beekeepers $45.00 US, (3lb 1 queen $55.00 US), for pickup at his warehouse. Michael ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:39:01 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Attendants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think the most important thing to consider when installing a queen with attendants is to make sure the exit hole will be on top so that dead attendants do not trap the queen in the cage. The Northeast is looking grim, after a dark wet summer we have had a pretty hard winter. I think some of the smaller clusters have already perished. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:26:49 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Attendants Comments: To: Peter Borst MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter & All > The bees in the cage with the queen are usually just plucked off the frame she was on Now I understand why US bees are so cheap...In UK we go to the trouble of filtering out predominantly younger bees for "attendents". We would also remove these attendant bees before introduction. Some of us in UK are now using marshmallow as the release agent instead of candy. But for the "Rolls Royce" method...Look up the Steve Taber/John Dews/Albert Knight method near the bottom of this URL http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/queenintro.html This is a particularly good method for valuable or rare queens that you cannot afford to lose. Regards From:- Dave Cushman, G8MZY ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:10:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: I read it on BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The OLd Drone used to sign his posts (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! BEE-L posts often contain opinions, speculation, mis-remembered 'facts' and incomplete explanations -- to mention only a few of the flaws... Why don't the moderators filter this kind of thing out? One reason is that we don't know what is true and what is not true -- for sure -- ourselves, and the other is that often the 'truth' goes through several revisions on the way to being fact. We also know that what at first appears to be heresy often later turns out to be a new truth. Please remember that BEE-L is a list where we try to discover and share truths, but the process can involve comparing opinions, memories and experiences, and these can be subjective, local or personal. Sometimes we don't get all the way to fact, so please remember that this list is for your entertainment and to help discover authoritative sources of fact, but is no substitute for doing your own research in texts and consulting local authorities. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:35:13 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: huestis Subject: Re: Installing Queens in Spring Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter, The most dependable plant around here seems to be clover(usually). Basswood and locust certainly aren't dependable at all. I used to think goldenrod was pretty good. Now I must say no since it was the worst I've seen in awhile last fall. Wild berries (black/ raspberry) are often OK. But as for any plant that is truly dependable, there is few. Even if there were you still can't control the weather! ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Borst To: Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 5:33 AM Subject: Re: Installing Queens in Spring Splits > Dear Rick, > I have been doing bees in NY state for 2 years now, having > lived in San Diego most of my life. Beekeeping is very different > here; the weather seems to be changing all the time and you never > know what kind of day it'll be. 1999 was extremely dry here and 2000 > was cool and wet. The main flow in 1999 was black locust (in May) and > in 2000 -- basswood (in July). > > When I ask people what the best honey plant is around here, > no one seems to have an opinion. Certainly not clover, or buckwheat > like the old days. Is it really going to be different every year? How > about where you live? Are there plants you can depend on or not? > > -------------------- > Peter Borst > Ithaca, NY > plb6@cornell.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:11:20 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: Queen bee attendants Queen bee attendants The following is opinion, backed by personal observation. I wonder what the rationale is in selecting *certain* bees for attendants in the cages? It seems to me that it doesn't matter, since I have never selected the bees other than to avoid real old looking ones, and there weren't any problems. Their function in the cages, it seems to me, is not clear but relates more to morale than anything else. The queen can survive on the candy for days without the attendants (given a drop or two of water from time to time). I was told this by a queen breeder and have verified it. I think the best method is to cage the queens without attendants and include loose bees in the shipping package, but it is messy. Banking queens is another topic upon which people will probably disagree. Experiences vary as to the length of time one can bank queens, and if they are harmed by it. A beekeeper once told me not to "abuse your prerogatives". The more unnatural the situation, the greater the chance things will go wrong. Something that worked once may not work again. Peter Ithaca NY U S A ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:52:28 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Green Subject: Re: Attendants plucked in the UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Surely you will share with us colonialist the value analysis of doing what you do versus finding and inserting the queens true attendants, versus doing neither. Contact me at: Rick Green 8 Hickory Grove Lane Ballston Lake, NY 12019 (518) 384-2539 Gothoney@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:03:03 +1300 Reply-To: peter@airborne.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Bray Organization: Airborne Honey Ltd. Subject: Re: PFUND HONEY COLOR In-Reply-To: <200102201524.KAA10907@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Somebody on the list who can tell me where i can buy a > > Pfund honey grader, for determination of a colour grades of honey. > > pict. on > http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/Pfundscale.html > Try the manufacturer at: http://www.koehlerinstrument.com/ Last time I looked they didn't have too much on their website, but we bought ours directly from them some years ago - plus regular updates on the calibrated glass wedge. We have further info and a link to the above URL on our website at : www.airborne.co.nz/airborne_honey_technical.html Regards, Peter Bray _________________________________________________________ Airborne Honey Ltd., Pennington St, PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 http://www.airborne.co.nz peter@airborne.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:50:10 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Green Subject: Re: Attendants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Did my Feb check and the bees are surviving well. Re attendant discussion, I have about half of the time found bees shipped with the queen, dead, and otherwise they apparently escaped with the queen. Contact me at: Rick Green 8 Hickory Grove Lane Ballston Lake, NY 12019 (518) 384-2539 Gothoney@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:41:57 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "M.E.A. McNeil" Subject: Re: US Package Bees In-Reply-To: <200102201527.KAA11075@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Anyone have any prices for 2lb/1Q and 4lb/2Q packages in small lots and large >lots -- and comments on quality and delivery dates available? > >allen Taber Bee Genetics, Vacaville, CA ship April 3. The first price is for Italian, second price Russian-Yugo Quantity Italian or "Russian" 1 16.90 17.90 2- 5 13.90 14.90 6-36 11.90 12.90 37-99 9.90 10.90 100+ 8.90 9.90 Marked .75 .75 2 lb packages with queen 20+ 31.50 32.50 3 lb packages with queen 1- 5 42.50 43.50 6-36 40.50 41.50 37-99 38.50 39.50 4 lb packages with queen 1-5 48.50 49.50 6-19 46.50 47.50 MEA McNeil ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:27:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Becky boehm Subject: enough forage? Hello conversationalists I have a question that I dont want to find the answer to by the school of hard knocks! The scene-----1 mile to the east, 2 trailers ( about 24 ft) of bees parked in a field where 4 hives were before, not for polination but honey production. 1/2 mile to the west another neighbor started about 50 hives last summer, still there. How does one know when an area becomes saturated by bee population that it becomes detrimental. Is this a wait and see proposition? I am located in the foothills of the smokies in north carolina at the south carolina border. Is it possible to over populate an area with hives? Is my concern unfounded? Any criticism accepted. Thanks Al Boehm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:07:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Attendants plucked in the UK In-Reply-To: <200102202243.RAA27503@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >... the queens true attendants What exactly are the 'queens true attendants'? allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:00:17 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Attendants plucked in the UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi I am not sure whether this question is aimed at myself...As I never mentioned "plucking attendants". Rick Green instigated the phrase "queens true attendants" and I take this to mean the bees in the immediate proximity to the queen when she is found on a comb. I prefer to prefill the cages with bees that have been shaken from frames into a "Marburg swarm box". This process ensures that most of the bees selected are "young" and "up for" the job of feeding the queen. For those unfamiliar with the "Marburg swarm box" I have copied a chunk from one of my recent posts to the Irish Beekeeping List. (this describes the procedure for filling mini nucs... For filling cages with attendants a different lid is used that holds a row of inverted cages for the bees to walk into and the spraying bit is not used.) Quote I just received my copy of "Bee Improvement" and noticed that some difficulty has been found in filling mating nucs owing to the older bees flying away. It helps if you can split the bees into "young" or "old" groups before you even attempt to put them in the nucs. There is an ideal tool for doing this...It is called the "Marburg swarm box"...And I will describe how it is made and used. It is a box that will hold 5 or perhaps 6 frames but for this purpose it is used without any frames inside. There is a 9 mm plywood plate on one long face that is hinged at the bottom edge. The front and back edges of this plate have 9 mm plywood quadrants fitted so that the appended assembly forms a funnel when swung open. The bottom 50 mm of the box side, inside this funnel, is replaced with zinc queen excluder material. In use, frames of bees are first very lightly shaken so that old flying bees take to the air. Then the frames are held within the funnel and shaken to dislodge almost all bees. The bees that end up in a heap at the bottom of the funnel still contain young and old bees but a high proportion of young bees will migrate through the queen excluder into the dark interior of the box whereas the older bees tend to walk upwards and take off into the air. This separation method is not perfect but after a dozen or so frames of bees have been shaken into the funnel a high proportion of the bees in the box will be "young". Have available a pressure bottle type sprayer either full of water or water with about a teaspoon of sugar per pint added. ( I use "Foxes Glacier Mints"). Close the funnel and jolt the box sharply on the ground then quickly open the box and spray the liquid liberally on the bees. The wet, slightly sticky bees can then be portioned out into the mating nucs using a ladle or a plastic drinks machine cup (which holds about 1000 bees). shut the bees in and leave in a cool place overnight. The grooming and cleaning knits the bees into a colony during this period. Add you queencell and let the bees fly on the following day or if in the same apiary as the original source of bees make your preparations a day earlier and confine them for one and a half days instead of overnight. There is a demonstration of this technique on the BIBBA video "Locko Park 88" which I believe has been renamed recently. Unquote Regards From:- Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding, website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman Archives of IBList, website http://website.lineone.net/~d.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:48:50 -0500 Reply-To: lloydspear@email.msn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: queens and attendents MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As long as we are sharing views: 1. I don't know how long some breeders have used the practice of shipping queens in banks with attendants shaken in for the entire bank, but I have been getting them this way for perhaps the past 5 years. At first I hated the practice, principally because I invariably need to use the queens in several yards. I found that every time I opened the box containing the queens and attendants, I lost attendants and by the time I got to the last yard (a few days after I started with the first yard), there were very few attendants. Then it dawned on me, shake some bees from my own frames into the box to replace the attendants that flew! Duh... Now I have a high preference for shipping queens in a bank with attendants on the outside of the cages. I generally buy no fewer than 20 queens at a time, and usually more like 40. (For 2001, I have orders in for 40 for one shipment and 50 for another.) If one is buying 20 queens and get 8 attendants for each (a high number), that is 160 attendants. With a bank, I think one could expect more like 300 attendants! Moreover, the attendants form clusters around the queen cages and it "seems" as if the queens get more attention than they do from the caged attendants. 2. Once one has dealt with a few hundred purchased queens, it becomes very clear that some breeders pay more attention than others to the quality of the attendants. My understanding of the theory is that young bees are best geared to taking care of the queen. Older, field bees, are less likely to properly groom and feed her, their food is of lower quality, or both. The attendants from some breeders are a mix of older and younger bees. Other breeders seem to only ship very young bees as attendants. The difference is easy to discern. Very young bees are likely to be found in the immediate vicinty of the queen. Breeders hand-picking from that area will likely get a high percentage of young bees. However, hand-picking bees is very labor intensive and painful...finger stings are unavoidable. Several breeders are now using a mechanical device to first shake bees into a box and then automatically pack attendants in cages. I think this results in a higher percentage of field bees getting into cages. That said, I have seen a marked difference in the ages of attendants put in with queens in banks. As these are also shaken, it seems that some breeders just plain take more care than others...or consider the age of the attendants to not be of importance. If one is ordering fewer than 10 or so queens, I guess that breeders will not agree to use the banks. Wile understandable as the shipping box (the container for the bank) will probably hold up to 100 queens, that is a shame, as I think this is clearly the superior way to ship and receive queens. Lloyd Mailto:Lloyd@rossrounds.com. Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. Visit our web site at http://www.rossrounds.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:31:56 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Green Subject: Re: Attendants and Retinue workers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit According to "The Hive and the Honey Bee" ..."9-ODA plays a major role in attracting workers to a queen and forming a retinue...maximal activity is realized when four other mandibular glands compounds are present..." Attendants in queen cages can be straight-run workers which is the easiest to do, young bees, or from the queen's original retinue. The research suggests that pheromones regulate retinue behavior. Presumably the established retinue bees are providing a value to the queen and would continue to do so if shipped in the queen cage. The efficacy of which traveler to use in queen cages hasn't been established. I have found that by opening the candy end slightly with a nail, and keeping the hole end up results in excellent acceptance of purchased caged queens. This is always done with at least a 24 hour wait following queenlessness. When the cage is examined after the queen has been released I have found half of the time the workers shipped in the cage to have been released presummably unharmed. Half of the time they have been found dead in the cages. This indicates that something further is going on that is not understood. Contact me at: Rick Green 8 Hickory Grove Lane Ballston Lake, NY 12019 (518) 384-2539 Gothoney@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:45:46 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Attendants and Retinue workers In-Reply-To: <200102211517.KAA21034@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Attendants in queen cages can be straight-run workers which is the easiest to > do, young bees, or from the queen's original retinue. This is the first time I have heard any suggestion that the retinue is composed of the same individual bees over any significant period of time. My understanding has always been that a retinue -- when it is observed, which often it is not -- is made up simply of bees that are nearby when the queen is working, and not bees that make a career of following and serving the queen. Have I been missing something? Are there bees that serve as attendants over time to a laying queen in a hive? Is this documented? allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:20:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: web page MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! We are currently updating our web page. One of the new features we have is a mailing list. If you wish to bee updated,please go to the below link and register. All future updated articles will bee sent to those that are listed. http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/contentpages/articles.html Regards, Herb/Norma Bee Herb/Norma Bee Holly-B Apiary PO Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 "an educated consumer is YOUR best customer" The Beekeeper's Home on the Internet http://www.mainebee.com Stony Critters http://www.stonycritters.com Betty's Driftwood Santa Site http://pages.ivillage.com/santasite/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:11:38 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Martin_Hrom=E1dko?= Subject: treatment against varoa in czech MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi James and all, here are medicaments and their substances where we use against varoa mites: > Taktivar FUM - amitraz (6 mg per treatment) > Taktivar AER - amitraz (6 mg per treatment) > MP10 FUM - fluvalinat (1 mg per treatment) > M 1 AER - fluvalinat (1 mg per treatment) > Gabon PF 90 - fluvalinat (80 mg/list, 2 listes per each hive room with a b rood) > Gabon P 92 - acrinatrhin (1,5 mg/list, 2 listes per each hive room with a brood) These information I have got from Czech beekeeper association, so it is more exactly, than I wrote the first time, becouse I didn´t know it surely. We use acid formica ( HCOOH ) against varoa too, but these treatment isn´t a ssessable in a law, as medicaments writing up. Good luck Martin Hromadko --- Odchozí zpráva neobsahuje viry. Zkontrolováno antivirovým systémem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz). Verze: 6.0.231 / Virová báze: 112 - datum vydání: 12.2.2001 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:41:18 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HStarJE@AOL.COM Subject: Laboratory services MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there a US lab that provides a service of inspecting and certifying samples of disease/pests? Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:43:06 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HStarJE@AOL.COM Subject: glass insemination tips MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all who replied with info about glass insemination tips. I would like to ask if they are so easy to make that buying them is unecessary, then how is it done? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:49:03 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Attendants and Retinue workers Allen writes: This is the first time I have heard any suggestion that the retinue is composed of the same individual bees over any significant period of time. etc. * This is the first time I have ever heard that it makes the slightest difference what sort of bees ride along in the cage, other than if they are already old, they might not last another week. As I mentioned before, the purpose of the "attendants" is probably more for morale. Bees hate to be alone. * I was the one who used the phrase "pluck the bees off the comb". I have raised and caged queens and that's what we did. We seldom got stung doing it, I might add. If you can't grap a bee without getting stung, you probably can't grab a queen without hurting her. Peter Ithaca, NY U S A ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:39:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Attendants and Retinue workers > do, young bees, or from the queen's original retinue. What I pictured when reading this is that the writer meant, "the bees which are surrounding the queen at the time you pluck her off the frame." Probably a better term than "original retinue" would be "current retinue". I has always been my observation that the queen goes where she wants to and there is not a group of bees that constantly follow her around. In other words, the retinue changes as she moves across the frame. Purposely choosing attendants to include in the queen cage from the bees that are currently tending to the queen may give some advantage over randomly choosing them from whatever bees are in the hive. I think what has been documented is that the work done by the worker bees changes over the life of the bee and is partly dependent on age and partly dependent on the needs of the colony. Layne Westover, College Station, Texas, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:05:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Re: laboratory services MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whenever I've had any question about the possibily of AFB on a comb, I've sent a chunk to the USDA lab at Beltsville, MD. They are good people and have been very prompt about getting the diagnosis back to me. If you're in the USA, you could hardly have a better place to get such diagnoses. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:20:21 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peacey Subject: Re: Attendants plucked in the UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear All, Interesting discussion about attendants in queen cages. We have been told to take attendants from the face of the pollen frame closest to the brood. The bees there are most likely to include a selection of those feeding the queen or larvae. The correct nutrition of queens is crucial and yet is sometimes ignored by queen breeders. Adequate high protein pollen supplies (willow and gorse provide much higher protein sources than many of our native trees in New Zealand and presumably their are protein differences between plants in other countries) in the starter/finisher hives is vitally important for the proper development of queens so as to ensure that they develop the greatest number of ovarioles, thereby ensuring maximum egg laying capacity. Likewise, good pollen supplies and adequate bees to feed the queen in mating nucs is very important for the well being of the queen. So it stands to reason that you need attendants in the queen mailing cage that can feed her properly. I've just read the relevant sections of "The Hive and the Honey Bee" and it says that queens are fed by nurse bees but it doesn't say categorically that queens don't feed themselves. Someone on the list said that queens will survive on candy and I'm not sure whether this was eaten directly or via feeding by attendants. Does anyone have any observations/experience with this? Simon Peacey ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:07:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: laboratory services MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It's in the archives! http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/archives/bee-l.html The USDA-Beltsville lab will test comb for American Foulbrood. Send a piece of suspect brood comb about 3" x 5" to: U. S. Department of Agriculture Bee Research Laboratory Building 476, BARC-East Beltsville, MD 20705 Aaron Morris - thinking SEARCH THE ARCHIVES!!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 07:47:09 +0800 Reply-To: ilogmria@cav.pworld.net.ph Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Joel F. Magsaysay" Subject: Re: Attendants and Retinue workers In-Reply-To: <200102212112.QAA03952@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear All, Some notes on queens shipped in banks: *care must be taken to provide enough soft (but not runny) queen candy for the attendants. *some banks are shipped with wet sponges which tend to dry out during transit. *sometimes, not enough young bee attendants are shaken into the bank. A couple of years ago, I received 1 or 2 JZBZ queen banks with about 120 queens. These were shipped from California, the wrong way around the world, to Manila here in the Philippines. The route was: Los Angeles, somewhere in the MidWest, New York, Amsterdam, Japan, Manila. This took all of 3 days. Upon arrival, the sponge had dried out, all the attendants were clustered aroung the hardened queen candy, the queens had shrunk. I did all I could with a few fresh made queen banks from strong colonies, fresh candy, water, etc. When the queens regained strength and size, I promptly introduced them into weak nucs with lots of just hatched bees. The queens failed, superseded and died off. Less than 10 did well. Joel F. Magsaysay ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE FARMS KM. 47, Aguinaldo Highway, Lalaan 1 Silang, Cavite joel@ilogmaria.com 046 - 865 - 0018 (digitel landline) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:14:34 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Enough Forage? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If Dr Bailey is right then you may well see an increase in tracheal mite (Acarine) and chronic paralysis virus if there are too many bees in an area. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:42:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Attendants and Retinue workers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Peter Borst wrote: >* This is the first time I have ever heard that it makes the slightest >difference what sort of bees ride along in the cage, other than if they >are already old, they might not last another week. As I mentioned before, >the purpose of the "attendants" is probably more for morale. Bees hate to >be alone. > >* I was the one who used the phrase "pluck the bees off the comb". I have >raised and caged queens and that's what we did. We seldom got stung doing >it, I might add. If you can't grap a bee without getting stung, you >probably can't grab a queen without hurting her. While working for my uncle Clarence in the 1950s, I caged thousands of queen bees and worker bees to go into the cage with her. We just grasped any young bees on the comb for that purpose. Virtually all queens we mailed did very well. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 [http://www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm] ******************************************************************** * * "The production of scientific knowledge is simultaneously * the production of scientific error." * Naomi Aronson, 1986 * ******************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 02:29:13 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Attendants and Retinue workers In-Reply-To: <200102211919.OAA28784@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200102211919.OAA28784@listserv.albany.edu>, Allen Dick writes >My >understanding has always been that a retinue -- when it is observed, which >often >it is not -- is made up simply of bees that are nearby when the queen is >working, and not bees that make a career of following and serving the queen. >Have I been missing something? I doubt very much. Watching bees in an observation hive suggests to me that the queen is largely ignored and the queen even ignores bees on the frame except to push them out of the way to get to a cell. When she stops laying, the bees immediately next to her turn to form the ring we associate with grooming and feeding. After a few seconds of this she gets on with her job and they get on with theirs. I have never seen bees following her. They seem like 2 separate operations until some signal must pass to initiate the circle. After a few such cycles, I have seen the queen disappear into a corner and be surrounded by a cluster for quite a lot longer - presumably to incubate her as well - and presumably a different signal passes to make this happen. Fascinating. I teach (until someone tells me otherwise) that as the workers age, new propensities arise as glands mature and later atrophy so new tasks are possible. The worker wanders around and when a task needs to be done that she can do, she will do it; like cleaning cells within seconds of hatching or grooming or feeding queens and each other. I always ask novices watching a frame and children (or adults) looking into an observation hive to follow a newly hatched bee to see what it does. People are fascinated - as I always am - the same with the queen. I teach that bees movement has a high random component (like the queen laying), but the tasks put certain requirements on the movements - such as eating pollen and honey to make brood food and to get back into the brood area to keep it warm following the larval pheromones and so on. So, only bees within a narrow age range are suitable for attending the queen to *feed* her - but if she's not laying, she won't need much feed. I like the anthropocentric idea of morale though. Surely they travel better with *any* worker bees and the worker bees respond well to travelling with queens. The beauty of random movement plus a few instincts as parameters (limits and requirements) is that with thousands of bees and good communications you get an entity of a sort a bit like a multi-celled animal with mobile cells. Very beautiful to observe with informed but naive wonder. By the way, to change the subject completely, has anyone come across bees that nip your fingers, perhaps as a precursor to stinging? Is this tendency associated with grooming mites? One of my colleagues reports it regularly and I am just starting to notice it. -- James Kilty