From MAILER-DAEMON@luna.metalab.unc.edu Sun May 20 09:13:45 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.metalab.unc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4KDDis18781 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 09:13:44 -0400 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4KDDfJ12715 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 09:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200105201313.f4KDDfJ12715@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 09:13:39 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0102D" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 60146 Lines: 1239 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:43:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Mares Subject: Re: I read it on BEE-L Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed It was good to have Allen's reminder about the range of assertion and truth available on BEE-L. There IS no substitute for hard research on your own. My father, a chemical engineer, used to define an expert as one who avoided all the minor errors as he swept forward to the grand fallacy. Beware of true believers anywhere! Bill Mares/Mares Apiaries 429 South Willard St., Burlington, VT 05401 Phone: 802-863-4938 Fax: 802-864-7982 Bee Happy in your work! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 06:48:47 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael palmer Subject: Re: Attendants and Retinue workers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many times I've felt a picking sensation on my are (I don't wear gloves) and looked down to see a bee biting me. I have never had one of these biters sting me afterwards. Mike James Kilty wrote: > By the way, to change the subject completely, has anyone come across > bees that nip your fingers, perhaps as a precursor to stinging? Is this > tendency associated with grooming mites? One of my colleagues reports it > regularly and I am just starting to notice it. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:16:42 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Attendants and Retinue workers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I hope these comments from Rick Green are merely a poor choice of words and that he is not suggesting an entire new worker caste that is a "retinue" bee. Allen's comment > when it is observed, which often > it is not -- is made up simply of bees that are nearby when the queen is > working, and not bees that make a career of following and serving the queen. Is nearer the mark and I would add that the bees that do take part are merely of the right age and in the right place at that particular time and that any "right age" bee would do the same. Regards From:- Dave Cushman, G8MZY ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 07:22:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Attendants and Retinue workers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" James Kilty asks, "has anyone come across bees that nip your fingers, perhaps as a precursor to stinging? Is this tendency associated with grooming mites?" Andy often wrote about bees that bit. I believe he insinuated the bees were after the salty sweat. I don't recall any indication that the biting was a precursor to a sting and I'm sure there was no tie made to mite grooming (which is not to say that no tie exists). Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 07:36:52 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: I read it on BEE-L In-Reply-To: <200102221140.GAA24040@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > BEE-L posts often contain opinions, speculation, mis-remembered 'facts' > > and incomplete explanations -- to mention only a few of the flaws... > It was good to have Allen's reminder about the range of assertion and truth > available on BEE-L. There IS no substitute for hard research on your own. Thanks. I have one thing to add: In my list of possible sources of misinformation on BEE-L I forgot to mention the outright fantasy and fiction content of the list. Some of this tomfoolery can be very convincing. Caveat emptor, or as Tom quotes "Test everything..." allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ --- I'm writing an unauthorized autobiography. -- Steven Wright ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:38:02 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: Opinions on Honey Bee Morale Opinions on Honey Bee Morale "Why feed sugar syrup? To stimulate pollen collection, brood rearing and improve the morale of the colonies generally. Our preference for a feeding rate of 2.5 bags per 200 litre drum did not see the bees storing the syrup, we have never seen bees cap cells of sugar syrup. At no time have we ever fed "thick" syrup for stores, preferring always to leave honey on hives for stores." ref 1 "On her first day as a queen, she will learn the basic layout of the colony, where the egg laying cells are and she will pick up the improved morale due to her successful birth. She is escorted around the hive, and during this time she meets with many of the workers as they frantically clean cells for the expected "egg laying" that the queen will do over the many months and years ahead." ref 2 These two quotes show that the term *morale* is commonly applied to honeybees. Whether it is *anthropomorphic* or not depends on what you mean by this term. It commonly refers to applying human attributes to non-human entities, like laughing cows or an evil wind. But the term implies that humans have characteristics that other creatures do not, which is being called into question. Obviously, humans are more intelligent, and have more complex languages and emotions than most other creatures. Also obvious is the fact that consciousness in animals cannot at this time be *proved*. But then, it can't be disproved and can't really even be proved in humans (we *think* we're conscious but some have noted that this may be an illusion or a form of *virtual reality* which *represents* the actual). About bees and other animals, many terms can be applied to them such as health, vigor, aggresiveness, or stupor, without anyone invoking *anthropomorphism*. But when we move over to joy, sorrow, fear, and demoralization -- we get into disputed territory. How to know? First, following Donald Griffin's work, we can dispense with the notion that if it can't be proved, it doesn't exist. ref 3 Gravity existed long before there was a word for it, molecules existed long before their existence could be proved. If we assume that animals have no thoughts or feelings, how will we ever know? Keep an open mind, is what it is. So, when I say "my dog is glad to see me" what is wrong here? Do I know the dog is glad? There is communication going on between me and the dog. I do know she is glad. I know how she likes to be petted and what she likes to do for fun. About bees: beekeepers know when their bees are irritable or at ease. We know that when the queen dies, they become *demoralized* or *despondent*. We don't know *how* they feel these things, but we do know what we mean by them. If I am raising queens it is important to have the colonies in good condition to get good results. One thing that has been observed is that queen-right hives generally do more and better work on cells (and everything else) than queenless hives. And in order to simulate this "attitude" beekeepers using queenless hives have to continually add bees from queen-right hives, to keep up the morale. And a large hive with no laying queen is often the meanest type. ref 1: Your Bees Are What You Feed Them! By Charlie Stevens http://www.honeybee.com.au/Library/ca.html ref 2: The Honeybee Queen: a look at an amazing egg laying machine http://www.beemaster.com/honeybee/qpage.htm ref 3: Animal Minds, Donald R. Griffin, 1992, University of Chicago Press ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:25:56 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Flabberghasted! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow! I just picked up the amazing news that Allen Dick is retiring. It's kinda like a major icon of the beekeeping world is shattered. I sure hope, Allen, that you keep a hand in beekeeping, and do lots of writing to share the wisdom you have accumulated. My time has gotten so limited that I cannot read all the posts on Bee List and other forums, but it would be rare for me to skip any post with your address on it. Coincidentally, I have also sold my pollination business. So I am facing major changes. I can't quite call it retirement. Janice says she'll be willing to keep me as a pet, but won't feed me. I hope to do some writing and photography myself. A number of beekeepers have quit lately, because they just can't see any future in it. So far, there are enough folks a little younger, and a little more optimistic, that can take up the slack, but I don't see that lasting very long. There are very few beekeepers in their twenties and thirties. Who will pollinate the next generation's crops? Allen, if you didn't do another thing related to beekeeping, you have still made a major contribution and impact in the beekeeping world. But I hope you are able to continue contributing for many more years. Best of all possible wishes to you, Allen. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:34:53 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: glass insemination tips MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all ----- Original Message ----- From: > I would like to ask if they are so easy to make that buying them is > unecessary, then how is it done? I have clipped most of this from a page of notes that I made with a view to writing a web page about the subject. Use German "green band" capilliary tube. A laboratory clamp stand can be utilised with a fixed clamp and a sliding one to grip the two ends of the capilliary. The lower sliding clamp can have various weights hung on it and the drop height adjusted using blocks. The melting is provided by a small coil (6 mm - 8 mm dia) of NiCrome wire heated from a 12volt battery or a battery charger. The connections to the coil can be made via "chocolate block" connectors (the coil is arranged concentrically with the tube). Thin brass tubing (available from model shops) can be threaded onto the coil leads for rigidity and to concentrate the heat within the coil itself. The precise form of this coil can have a marked effect on the shape of the finished tip. The coil melts the glass and the bottom weight draws the the melted portion into a thin neck. A guage wire is fed down the tube until it stops in the narrow portion. The position at which the guage wire comes to rest is "nicked" and the tube snapped. A tungsten carbide scraper or planer blade can be used to nick the surface of glass to provide a "notch" that facilitates cutting. Polishing can be achived using many items from the Dental Laboratory...Pumice powder...diamond impregnated rubber discs (used in a Dremel Tool). Final polishing should be achieved using a flame. http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/tipshape.html gives ideas on the shape of tips. Regards From:- Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding, website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman Archives of IBList, website http://website.lineone.net/~d.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 04:35:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Flabberghasted! In-Reply-To: <200102230521.AAA27609@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I just picked up the amazing news that Allen Dick is retiring. It's true. It had to happen sometime, I guess, and the time seemed right. A lot of factors came together. We woke up one day a few weeks ago and realized the time had come. I imagine I'll keep a few bees, for fun though, and we'll see what I do about my other involvements in the industry. I suspect that I'll be around for a while yet, but I won't bore everyone here with the details. I have a website for that purpose :) For anyone interested there are more details at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Sale/ and http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/. I have almost finished catching up on my diary after two weeks of being busy with sale preparations and travel. > A number of beekeepers have quit lately, because they just can't see any > future in it. I can understand worries for the industry, particularly in the USA -- after all, it seems the past decade has just brought one insurmountable problem after another -- but I also see reasons for optimism. These things have a way of going in cycles and can see a lot of good things coming, including better honey prices, but I have to sympathize with US beekeepers who have it very tough right now due to the one simple fact that the US government has pursued a 'strong dollar' policy. Elsewhere in the world, prices are not exactly great, but they are bearable. The strong US dollar means that US consumers can by cheaper outside the US and the only solutions I know of are 1.) a weaker dollar, 2.) subsidies or 3.) tariffs (in order of desirability). Apparently the Bush administration is committed to continue the strong dollar policy, so that means a continued low honey price in the US relative to the rest of the world even though the current trend seems to be up. (Strange, but I have not heard a thing about the Argentine crop, and it usually sets prices at this time of year. Wonder what the news is?). In view of the boost consumers get from the dollar, producer subsidies should be the most reasonable solution but attempts to level the playing field have gotten a bad name in recent years due to perceived abuse by some counties. > So far, there are enough folks a little younger, and a little > more optimistic, that can take up the slack, but I don't see that lasting > very long. There are very few beekeepers in their twenties and thirties. Who > will pollinate the next generation's crops? Even though success or failure is a rather personal matter, I feel I owe it to beekeeping to say that this business has been very good to Ellen and me. I don't want people who are considering beekeeping as a career to think you cannot make good money in beekeeping. If we get decent prices selling off our bees and equipment, which I expect we will -- and if we watch our pennies and maybe do some other work, we should be okay for quite a while. Although -- as in any business -- people are regularly unable to make a living in bees due to luck, local conditions, or timing factors -- many beekeepers do live *very* well, and some families have -- for generations -- and will continue to do so as long as they are astute managers. Successful beekeepers usually don't brag much, and they often even complain a bit, simply because they don't want to encourage competition. After all, beekeeping is about the easiest form of agriculture to get into and the entire capital investment is turned over in cash flow within an amazingly short period compared to many other businesses and farming in general. > I hope you are able to continue contributing for many more years. Thanks Dave, and I hope you do too. At this point I really don't know what the future holds. I like this industry and I like the people. Why else would I be sitting here at 4AM typing away at an article about what most outside this group (beekeepers) would see as a job-related topic? For most beekeepers, beekeeping is not a job, it is a lifestyle. It appeals to some and not to others. I personally like it and doubt I can ever get completely away from it. We'll see. The future is wide open. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ --- Last year I went fishing with Salvador Dali. He was using a dotted line. He caught every other fish. -- Steven Wright ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:32:53 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Re: Flabberghasted! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I joined this group some while back now - and it was due to the subject matter being discussed at a level that educated, informed and often provoked comment. This was (and is still) due to the contributions made by individuals such as Allen. I thank you for your efforts given to this list. One major regret is that we didn't manage to meet during my recent "voyage" to Canada! Relating to future Commercial beekeeping - here in France, there is now a great problem in finding young individuals to follow in the footsteps of "retreating characters". Such individuals are needed to give the industry a presence before the general public and the authorities. As they become fewer in number the pressure to protect the honey bee gradually increases. I suppose it is for the "younger" individuals to pick up the reins and take responsibility. The problem is that to do so requires funds and time - both being in short supply. Any individual, at least here in France showing willing is often snowed under with demands, meetings, confrontation and argument - to the total detriment of their enterprise. Result - few to carry the load. This has knock on effects. If research bodies exist primarily to serve the industry (a point often forgotten) and that industry is in poor shape - then so will be these supporting organisations. This then reflects upon the image of beekeepers in general. One resulting effect is then again a lower attraction to beekeeping as viewed by potential "activists". It becomes an old persons "game". It is because it is then viewed as a pastime or at best a non serious activity that generates the problems. YUK!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:56:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "H. Kroese" Subject: Re: glass insemination tips See for glas tips also http://home.hetnet.nl/~kroese/index.html subpage "insemination" The text is in Dutch. sorry Ik make the tips myself. There are 2 fotos of a coil that i made myself. The wire i use is frame wire stainless steel. Diameter 4 mm. keep the windings compact. 1 cm length. 12v battery charger works perfectly. success H. Kroese Holland. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:25:13 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: enough forage re: I have a question that I dont want to find the answer to by the school of hard knocks! reply: Such questions as how close together to put apiaries and how many hives there should be in an apiary are impossible to answer. Experience is the *only* teacher here. Ideally, beekeepers would meet frequently and make agreements about such things and in some areas there are actual regulations in force regarding encroaching. Commonly, beekeepers do not discuss apiary locations and such, fearing competition over cooperation. In California it was common to see yards of 120 hives. My friends used to say if a location couldn't support 120 it wasn't a good location. In this area of NY 12 to 20 hives seems to be common. I would not knowingly move closer than one mile from another beekeeper. Three miles is probably more fair. If someone moves in on you, try to reason with them. Too many bees hurts everyone concerned. Peter Borst Ithaca NY U S A ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:06:47 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Opinions on Honey Bee Morale Comments: To: Peter Borst In-Reply-To: <200102221741.MAA06353@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200102221741.MAA06353@listserv.albany.edu>, Peter Borst writes >Our preference for a feeding rate of 2.5 >bags per 200 litre drum Please explain the size of the bags? >did not see the bees storing the syrup, we have never >seen bees cap cells of sugar syrup. I have seen bees store and cap 1:1 sugar syrup. Indeed did not APIS last year describe a school research project which showed some American beekeepers had high percentages of sucrose in their honey? > At no time have we ever fed "thick" syrup >for stores, preferring always to leave honey on hives for stores." ref 1 > >"On her first day as a queen, she will learn the basic layout of the colony, >where the egg laying cells are and she will pick up the improved morale due to >her successful birth. She is escorted around the hive, and during this time she >meets with many of the workers as they frantically eagerly, enthusiastically > clean cells for the expected >"egg laying" that the queen will do over the many months and years ahead." ref >2 > >These two quotes show that the term *morale* is commonly applied to honeybees. I may be the one to have associated anthropomorphic with morale. I have no problem using the term "morale" with bees as it conveys pretty accurately the state of affairs. It is a complex in humans anyway. > >Whether it is *anthropomorphic* or not depends on what you mean by this term. >It >commonly refers to applying human attributes to non-human entities, like >laughing cows or an evil wind. But the term implies that humans have >characteristics that other creatures do not, which is being called into >question. This is a tight definition. It would be nice if we could all agree to it. >Obviously, humans are more intelligent, and have more complex languages and >emotions than most other creatures. Also obvious is the fact that consciousness >in animals cannot at this time be *proved*. We can suspect it in 2 of the apes (chimpanzees and orang-utans who recognise themselves in a mirror) and come cetaceans (a killer whale who told someone to "take the ring" in the sounds taught to it to respond to and dolphins who seem to create for fun - this was the *first* two-way communication between human and animal). > But then, it can't be disproved and >can't really even be proved in humans (we *think* we're conscious but some have >noted that this may be an illusion or a form of *virtual reality* which >*represents* the actual). If life is a dream, who is the dreamer? To apply *think* to "conscious" is using Cartesian, limited thinking. To meditate *may* bring a sense of Consciousness closer. Like watching bees. > >About bees and other animals, many terms can be applied to them such as health, >vigor, aggresiveness, or stupor, without anyone invoking *anthropomorphism*. >But >when we move over to joy, sorrow, fear, and demoralization -- we get into >disputed territory. Funny - to say we project human experience and descriptive terms on to bees does not imply the attribution is false. Like projecting on to other people - what we project may be true, even if less strongly than we think. There is something there to catch the projection. >Gravity existed long before there was a word for it, molecules existed long >before their existence could be proved. If we assume that animals have no >thoughts or feelings, how will we ever know? So many people seem to want the explanation before accepting the phenomena. That way the phenomena are sidelined and dismissed. > Keep an open mind, is what it is. Absolutely. >So, when I say "my dog is glad to see me" what is wrong here? Do I know the dog >is glad? There is communication going on between me and the dog. I do know she >is glad. I know how she likes to be petted and what she likes to do for fun. Good one. If you have a dog, you know pure gladness - how I would like that much in my life!! -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:41:13 -0500 Reply-To: Peter Borst Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Opinions on Honey Bee Morale >> If life is a dream, who is the dreamer? To apply *think* to "conscious" is using Cartesian, limited thinking. To meditate *may* bring a sense of Consciousness closer. Like watching bees. * What I meant was our conception of what it *means to be conscious* is just that: a conception (a thought). What it *actually means to be conscious* is another story, one where there is even less consensus. >> Funny - to say we project human experience and descriptive terms on to bees does not imply the attribution is false. Like projecting on to other people - what we project may be true, even if less strongly than we think. There is something there to catch the projection. * Exactly what I was saying. Simply because some projections are wrong, does not mean that they all are. But what I really meant was that it is OK to speculate about animal consciousness; in doing so we may approach the actual. >> If you have a dog, you know pure gladness - how I would like that much in my life!! * If one has bees, one can also know gladness! I think that when it is sunny and hot and the nectar is flowing from heaven, they dance for joy. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 20:07:31 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Thurber's Book Reprinted MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, All. Some have expressed interest in Roy Thurber's "Bee Chats, Tips and Gadgets". This book has now been reprinted by the Washington State Beekeepers Association. It is available from Bob Stump, 5417 99th Ave. N.W., Gig Harbor, WA 98335, (253) 265-2304, for $20 plus shipping and handling. Dan Hendricks __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 04:25:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: w smit Subject: beehive preservation methods has anybody any experience with "preserve aqc" or "preserve plus" as treatment of pinus radiata beehives? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:58:29 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Fw: Beehive preservation methods MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > has anybody any experience with "preserve aqc" or "preserve plus" as > treatment of pinus radiata beehives? Can you list what are the active ingredients in the above preservatives. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA www.superiorbee.com.au > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 18:35:52 +0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bee-club@JUNO.COM Subject: Formula MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know of a simple formula to make to put in swarm catchers to help attract swarms? I know we can buy something called "Swarm Catch" from Dadant. Would anyone know how to make it? I've put a few swarm catchers out here in the New Territories and am hoping to attract some. My six hives are all feral that were found in this area. Thank you for any answers! Making "Hong Kong Honey" with Chinese bees. Justin, (16) Fanling, Hong Kong, China ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 09:59:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Spagnolo Organization: Prodigy Internet Subject: winter progress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good morning: this is just a quick update on my winter success/failure so far this = year. I set up a wintering house last Fall and have been posting my = reports every couple of weeks since. As of today I had lost six out of thiry-five hives. Three of the hives = had small clusters going into the winter, two displayed signs of = dysentary and the six loss is a mystery. The bees have not flown at all since the end of October. The weather = has been cold and snowy. We haven't had any temperatures above 32 since = sometime in early November. Last Wednesday the morning low was -27 F. = We currently have about 36" of snow on the ground and absolutely now = signs of Spring at all. In fact, I am still waiting for the arrival of = the seed catalogs, which is the first sign of spring around here. This winter will be a true test of the bees wintering ability. If they = can survive this winter, they can survive anything Minnesota can throw = at them. Any comments would be appreciated. Stay warm and think spring. Mark in Minnesota. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 11:21:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave and Judy Subject: Southwestern Ohio Bee School MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spring is almost here and beekeepers are getting ready to implement those changes that they thought about all last winter. Hopefully one of those changes will be to attend a beekeeper's school to gain more information about their ladies. Southwestern Ohio's Beekeeper School has to be one of the best. Current topics and excellent presenters. And some great door prizes. The Beekeeping School will be held at the Cincinnati Princeton High School on March 10, 2001. The day will begin with registration and Honey Donuts from 8:00 a.m. EST to 9:00 a.m. Dr. Jim Tew, who we all appreciate from Bee Culture, will begin the day's session at 9:00 a.m. in the cafeteria. The break-out sessions will then follow throughout the day. Some of the topics will be: Seasonal Management; Processing Wax; Raising Queens; Making Mead and Homebrew; Apitherapy; Pollination Services; Pollen Collection; and Hive Splitting. Wow, could go on for a couple more paragraphs, but you get the idea. There is something offered for any level of beekeeper experience. Pre-Registration is encouraged, but not necessary. The cost for the day will be $18/adults and $10/students under 18 years of age. You can get the agenda and registration information at the Warren County web page at: www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~warr/ag/Bschool. Hope to see you there. Judy in Kentucky, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 11:31:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave and Judy Subject: The Perrenial Question: Getting Stains Out of Bee Suits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello beekeeper friends. Dave's supposedly 'white' bee suit really needed a cleaning before we made a school presentation. I bought about every stain remover product on the grocery store shelves. Most of them guaranteed to remove certain types of stains. (Apparently none of these manufacturers had bees in their backyards!). Of course, none of them worked. But the Tub and Tile Spray did take out some of the stains. I was determined that this problem would not get the best of me. So, I turned to the Automotive section! There is a product called Super Clean, a liquid spray or pour, that is used to get off bug and tar spots from the autos. Well, bugs, tar, hmmm = propolis? It worked! Any stains that were left from the laundry aisle cleaners, well they are history. And it did not eat any holes in the coveralls! I admit that I had already washed the suit at least twice, so what was left looked permanent. The end result could have been the combination of 14 different products, but maybe not. (I have no monetary interest in this product, except for the 2 quart jugs I bought at retail from WalMart. I have since used it on other stuff around the house. Great stuff.) Judy in Kentucky, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 10:46:10 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: winter progress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Mark & All, Mark wrote: As of today I had lost six out of thiry-five hives. Three of the hives = had small clusters going into the winter, two displayed signs of = dysentary and the six loss is a mystery. I was in Minnesota this week and saw first hand your winter weather. Snow piled high and snow over fence posts. I made a stop in Nebraska on the way back to pick up equipment and then drove on ice all the way to Omaha. I would say you are doing ok as far as loss goes. We are getting reports of dysentary from all areas where the bees have been confined without cleansing flights. Hives with small clusters might have survived last winter but not this winter. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:54:03 -0000 Reply-To: Ruary Rudd Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ruary Rudd Organization: Westgate, waterville Subject: Re: Flabberghasted! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit May I be allowed to join those who wish Allen well, I have always found his input interesting and worthwhile reading. He was prepared to do a lot of surfing on the web to find out what had been happening in other countries and had at all times an open mind on developments. In my opinion his contributions ranked with those of 'The Old Drone' Thank Allen Ruary Rudd ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:20:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: hazards of eating old honey I would like to ask those of you who know more about this than I do a couple of questions about the safety of using old honey. I had always heard that honey "lasts forever" as long as you keep moisture out of it, and will still be good to eat. I had also heard that carmelized honey will kill bees. Another thing I had heard is that there is a chemical change that takes place in honey as it ages (and I forget the name of the chemical that is produced) and that it is not good for bees. Of course you always have the potential of spreading diseases through feeding honey from an unknown source to bees. Specifically my questions are these: 1) If I have some old dark honey (say 25 years old) that was dark to begin with but is now darker, that was stored in a sealed container and kept from moisture, but was stored in a climate that has hot summers and it was not kept in an air conditioned environment, how safe is it for a human (me) to eat? 2) If it is at all unsafe for human consumption, what is the component (chemical in it) that causes the problems, and what problems does it cause? Basically, how safe is it to eat? Thanks for your help. Sincerely, Layne Westover, College Station, Texas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:03:55 -0500 Reply-To: Peter John Keating Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter John Keating Subject: Re: hazards of eating old honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Musashi" greetings, l wouldn't eat it, especially after so many years of poor storage. The HMF content would be extremely high. I am not sure want that does to you if you eat it, but it is one of the few ways of checking the quality of honey. Here in Canada the limit of Hydroxymethylfurfural is 40mg/kg, in other countries it is a lot less. Peter : > 1) If I have some old dark honey (say 25 years old) that was dark to begin > with but is now darker, that was stored in a sealed container and kept from > moisture, but was stored in a climate that has hot summers and it was not kept > in an air conditioned environment, how safe is it for a human (me) to eat? > 2) If it is at all unsafe for human consumption, what is the component > (chemical in it) that causes the problems, and what problems does it cause? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:17:43 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: hazards of eating old honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ...I had heard is that there is a chemical change that takes place in honey > as it ages (and I forget the name of the chemical that is produced) and that > it is not good for bees. HMF. There is some stuff in the archives about this. > 1) If I have some old dark honey (say 25 years old) OK for people, bad for confined bees with no other source of food. allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:02:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: w smit Subject: beehive preservation preserve aqc is described as a non arsenic non chromium alternative to cca (tanalith) the main ingredients are copper and ddac n ammonium compound common to soaps detergents etc more info at www.primepine.com.au and www.treatedwood.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:35:22 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: wajih daour Subject: Quality measure of Automn (fall) queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Beekeepers, I bread queens for our own use in Spring, Summer and Fall to see which = is more valuable for our short and fast citrus honey flow in Jordan = valley, (we harvest 10th of April). I noticed the following results and = would like to hear your comments. I used American imported queens , not breeder queens, . The Spring = queens produced , one year old next spring, build up their colonies = very quickly and healthy , not calm, and have lot of swarming. But some = with high honey production. The Summer queens , hot dry summer , slowly build up , aggressive , many = failed these days . Fall queens produced in September and October, in 5 frame nucs build up = reasonably fast , very calm , without swarming but with more loses than = the spring ones. The breeding condition in spring are much better than fall. How you = evaluate Fall produced queens to use them for all our hives? Regards Wajih Daour ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:08:17 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Honey News: Honey for Oral Health (thx to NHB) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Honey for Oral Health Researcher to Discuss the Effect of Honey on Bacteria Species Responsible for Dental Caries LONGMONT, Colo., Feb. 26 /PRNewswire/ -- On Friday, March 9, 2001, Dr. Peter C. Molan, Associate Professor of Biochemistry at the University of Waikato, New Zealand will speak at a symposium entitled "Functional Foods for Oral Health" organized by the University of Illinois College of Dentistry. The symposium is part of the American Association for Dental Research annual meeting being held in Chicago. In his presentation "Honey for Oral Health," Dr. Molan will present the results of laboratory research to test the effect of honey on the species of dental plaque bacteria believed to be responsible for dental caries. (Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20010226/SFM133 ) Honey contains an enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide which is believed to be the main reason for the antimicrobial activity of honey. Types of honey differ greatly in their antimicrobial potency, varying as much as a hundred fold. The research has shown that honey not only stops the growth of the dental plaque bacteria, it reduces the amount of acid produced, which stops the bacteria from producing dextran. Dextran, a component of dental plaque, is the gummy polysaccharide that the bacteria produce in order to adhere to the surface of the teeth. Dr. Molan's research is showing potential for the use of selected highly antimicrobial types of honey in the treatment of periodontal disease and gingivitis. These diseases are inflammatory conditions resulting from infection of the gums. The factors involved are very similar to those in inflamed infected wounds. Clinical research is showing that the selected honeys rapidly clear bacteria from infected wounds, even when the infection is deep-seated. However, unlike some other antiseptics, honey is gentler on tissue. The potent anti-inflammatory property of the honey rapidly removes the swelling and pain. Honey also has a marked stimulatory effect on the growth of cells that repair the tissues damaged by infection. Dr. Molan heads The University of Waikato Honey Research Unit, recognized for its expertise in the composition of honey including antimicrobial activity. In New Zealand and Australia, honey producers have batches of honey tested in the laboratory to identify the samples with high activity. Those types are now labeled and marketed as "antiseptic." The National Honey Board is now coordinating efforts to have varieties of honey found in the United States tested to identify the floral types that have good antimicrobial activity. Dr. Molan will be available for interviews on Thursday, March 8, 2001. For information contact Mary Ann Johnson at 415-268-5421 or mjohnson@zfpartners.com. For a preview VNR on the latest honey research: Antibacterial http://tm.intervu.net/template/smirror/prodcity/g2-vod.ram?stream=honey/healfu ll.rm Energy http://tm.intervu.net/template/smirror/prodcity/g2-vod.ram?stream=honey/enrgfu ll.rm SOURCE National Honey Board ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:18:50 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Flabberghasted! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > > I just picked up the amazing news that Allen Dick is retiring. > > It's true. It had to happen sometime, I guess, and the time seemed right. A > lot of factors came together. We woke up one day a few weeks ago and realized > the time had come. > > Hi Allen and All, You have added a very valuable contribution to beekeeping. Everyone has a time to pull the plug. I'm happy that it is on an up note.Its time for you to enjoy more of the other side of life.I know that you have a Love for bees and that will never go away. I hope you can find the time to continue spreading your knowledge about beekeeping to others. You do a very good job on this list. Very Best Regards Roy Nettlebeck Tahuya River Apiaries > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:41:15 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: February Blossoms and Pollinators MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's a new gallery of South Carolina February bloom at: http://pollinator.com/gallery/February/february_flowers.htm This includes high quality photos of wildflowers, fruits and ornamentals, observed or known pollinators and other info Enjoy! Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 20:08:51 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Flabberghasted! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone and Allen in particular I hope he enjoys his retirement as much as I have. Too many are equating his retirement with imminent demise. I expect we shall see more of his words of wisdom, when bees get in your blood you are hooked for life. Good Luck From:- Dave Cushman, G8MZY ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 03:50:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Selling honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are going to have a panel discussion on selling honey at our Annual Meeting in Maine. I am preparing a set of questions to ask the panel, which has both hobby and commercial beekeepers. Some of the obvious are: 1. What are the laws that you encounter in selling honey? (Leads to EPA, FDA, and State requirements) 2. What is your cost per hive and amount of honey per hive to break even? 3. Who do you sell to? At what price? 4. How do you establish a market for your honey? 5. How do you work in that market? i.e. farmer's, reseller, etc. 6. What are your ways to insure quality? 7. What value added items do you sell? i.e. wax, pollen, propolis and at what price? The audience is mostly hobby beekeepers with some having aspirations to go commercial. I intend to give the participants a copy of the questions so they can do their homework. Any other questions/ideas from you would be appreciated. It is only an hour, so I would like to hit the important items. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:17:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Curtis Gunderson Subject: Fisher's Bee Quick Hello All: Dadant sells the product "Fisher's Bee Quick" for the removal of bees from supers. Does anyone have an opinion on it? Is it as effective as Bee-Go? What is the natural ingredient(s)? Thanks Curtis. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:26:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: Flabberghasted! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Allen & All, I also would like to wish Alan a happy & enjoyable retirement! Because this is a Bee-L post instead of a direct email I will add a few comments for those thinking of retiring from beekeeping on a large scale. The best way is obviously to sell the whole operation to another beekeeper. This doesn't happen very often but the best place to try first. If you can't find a buyer then most beekeepers sell only the bees the first year. In the U.S. you want to spread the taxable income out over several years. NEVER sell the supers before the bees are sold. Actually never sell any support equipment till the bees are sold. As the the bees are sold then move a like amount of support equipment. Honey house equipment is bought mainly by beekeepers wanting to *upgrade*. Honey house equipment sells best as a complete package but if you are not in a hurry you can usually get more money a piece at a time. Equipment which is not in popular use is hard to find a home for( eight frame equipment,glavanized extractors, deadouts and outdated equipment). Complete dispersal sales have been disappointing to sellers over the last few years. Sales are a quick way out but many sellers are VERY disappointed when the sale is over . I have been asked to help with sales of beekeepers equipment which have died. The faster the hives & supers find a new home the better. Stored and unprotected supers can be reduced to *junk* fast. Most U.S. beekeepers know of a few barns full of supers & deadouts needing TLC but the owner wants a new price. . Time involved in repair is huge and not cost effective if using hired labor. Consider every offer. High offers usually come with the right to pick through equipment. Low offers will take the whole lot. Beekeepers are famous for buying low and selling high. Consider what you will be left with if you let beekeepers pick only the best. None of the above is intended for Allen as I am sure he is aware of everything I have posted but others thinking of retirement might find the above helpful. I doubt we have heard the last from Allen. Beekeeping has a way of holding on to its beekeepers. Health has forced many to retire but age doesn't seem to be a factor. I have known beekeepers which waited to long to retire and the everyday running of the operation became a overwelming task . I have also known beekeepers which amazed me at the way they could run their bees when they were in their 70's,80's and even a few in their 90's. Best wishes Allen! Bob ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:08:42 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joan Schavee Subject: Condsidering trying interior hive. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Has anyone experience with maintaining hives from within a shed, garage, barn. I am contemplating trying a hive from within an enclosed room in our attached garage with opening through the wall to the exterior starting this spring. The garage(room) is heated and air conditioned. The minimum temperature during winter with no heating/cooling vents open has been down to 40 degrees and during the summer with no vents opened will go to about 90 degrees. Opening the heating/cooling vents in the room would usually maintains an average 75 degree temp. I guess what I am asking is how are interior observation hives maintained? Although this would not be an observation hive, I would be using regular hive bodies open to the outdoors. Overwinter should be better?? Hive venting needed? Problems to consider? Thanks Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 18:13:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "H. Kroese" Subject: Instrumental Insemination and washed semen Hi beekeeper friends, >From the NZ Bee site I read that some beekeepers have experience with "Insemination and washed semen techniques." I am specially interested in washed semen and homogenised semen techniques. Also the saline chemical compounds are very important for washed semen. Personally I had many problems with wrong saline. It killed the queens and the semen. I have read somewhere on the internet that it is possible, and a lot quicker to wash of the semen from the bulbus. How does this work, probably with saline and then centrifuge to split the semen and the saline solution? Can anyone help me with perhaps articles, descriptions of the techniques? Please send it directly to me hkroese@hetnet.nl Thanks. Greetings, Hennie Kroese Holland http://home.hetnet.nl/~kroese/