From MAILER-DAEMON@luna.metalab.unc.edu Sun May 20 09:13:49 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.metalab.unc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4KDDms18827 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 09:13:48 -0400 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4KDDjJ12748 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 09:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200105201313.f4KDDjJ12748@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 09:13:40 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0105C" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 117021 Lines: 2542 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 07:59:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: American Foulbrood Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Bob and Everyone, Bob asked "Explain what you mean when you say *clean it up*. Do we know what happens to these lifetime viable spores? Are they placed outside the hive entrance? stored in honey during the honey flow?" When given comb with scales a resistant colony may show a few cells of AFB usually starting about 3 weeks after the scale is placed in the broodnest. The colony over a period of weeks will clean out the AFB cells without any treatment. After a period of about 2 to 6 weeks you will not find any more active AFB. If the colony is closely monitored the rest of the season, you will not find any more AFB. The colony has cleaned it up. Hygenic bees remove diseased pupa usually before they show any visable symptoms and before they become infectious ( before the spores are formed ) so they actually over time remove the disease spores from the colony. Most also chew comb with scale down to the midrib before rebuilding or sometimes even just chew it all down and start fresh. These observations are in colonies where a limited amount of AFB scales in comb have been added to challenge the bees with AFB. If you add whole frames of AFB it is very likely that the colony will show som! e active AFB for considerably longer and may be overwhelmed by the great volume of inoculum and succumb to the disease. This points out the need to continue to inspect the brood combs and remove any visable scale even if you are using highly disease resistant stock. In summary the bees actually can and do remove the disease spores from the hive over time. hope this helps blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:55:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "BOGANSKY,RONALD J." Subject: Fool Me Once MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me." It has been many years since I first heard that saying. I feel is rings oh so true this season. Last year (99/00), I lost a fair number of colonies over the winter. Many were gone by December. I was pretty sure that it was caused by varroa resistance to the Apistan that I had used. I started to realize my losses were high in February. I posted this information to the list. At that time I also started to rethink about mite control. A number of commercial beekeepers in the area had already used CheckMite the previous season with what they reported as good results and much better winter survival then I had. Normally I am very successful with wintering (10% loss), usually selling nucs (splits) in the spring just to avoid swarming. Being upset at the time I ordered a supply of CheckMite. I even used it on two colonies in the spring that were showing high varroa amounts. During the season I made splits, purchased packages and built back up to 31 colonies. I also added screened bottom boards to some of the colonies. Along about August I started getting ready for treatment. I had calmed down since spring and decided against the Checkmite on all colonies. I was able to get enough formic acid for 25 colonies. I used it and only treated the remaining 6 colonies with the Checkmite. Also, because I was using formic I did not use any menthol at all, something I have done for the past 9 years. Fast forward 8 months. I had another winter of high losses, losing 17 of the 31. However, all 6 colonies treated with CheckMite had survived and five of them were very strong, the sixth being somewhat weaker but still able to be split in April. The remaining colonies had survived but were not nearly as strong and needed work to build up. I realize this is only anecdotal evidence and I am not advocating the use of CheckMite. I really don't want to be on that "chemical merry-go-round", but I lost many bees while I had a few hundred dollars worth of treatment sitting on the shelf. Who's the fool? I am tired of going through dead outs. Watching bees die takes most of the fun out of keeping them. This season has all the indications of being a banner honey flow year, and I don't have the bees to capitalize on it. I will probably have to buy honey from another beekeeper to meet my needs. Funny thing is that beekeeper is the same person that sold me his supply of formic when he decided to use CheckMite last year. His losses this year were below 20%. And just to add insult on injury, a bear hit one of my yards two weeks ago pretty much destroying everything. I guess it will be just another challenging year in keeping bees. Good luck to everyone. Ron Bogansky Kutztown, (eastern) PA, USA + ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:15:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: how to identify mean hive? Comments: cc: "MatHig@AOL.COM" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Does anyone have any good tricks on how to identify which hive in an apiary > is the aggressive one? At the Federation of Irish Beekeepers Association meeting in Gormanston, there was a very amusing presentation in the beeyard on this very topic. The gentleman giving the presentation (whose name I cannot remember) stated in a very heavy Irish brogue, "The way to assess the temperment of a colony is to open up the hive and bless your bees, making the sign of the cross over the top bars. If the bees attack, you know they're from hell and you can be sure they're devils!" Aaron Morris - thinking fond memories of Ireland! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 17:50:59 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dane Bogunovic Subject: Need help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone, I need help to solve the problem.After hours of searching the beekeeping = sites and arhives I give up. I could not find any address from where I could download files = concerning the work of C.L.Farrar., especialy full text off "Productive managemant of honey-bee colonies". I will be gratefull to any of you who will send me any possible address. Dane Bogunovic,beekeeper from Serbia,Yugoslavia. Regards to all of you. My address is zvezda@bankerinter.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 21:07:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: U.S. Postal Service MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Norm, I think you are totally wrong! Write to your congressman and senator about the post office and DEMAND that they straighten these people out. Being quiet does not get you anything! George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 22:30:59 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Gun Thermometer Comments: To: "BeeGadgets@yahoogroups. com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My diary at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ continues to meander onward. I thought it might interest some in the group to see a picture of my helper measuring the top bar temperature remotely -- from several inches above -- using an automotive test instrument. It seems to be able to detect the centre of brood and give some hint as to its presence or absence and quantity. Sorry, but the page has grown large and is a two minute (+) load by modem. I'll be trimming it soon to reduce load time. Anyhow, comments and suggestions on using this measuring device are appreciated allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ --- Good news is just life's way of keeping you off balance. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 10:47:15 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Cooper Subject: Post Office MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I had the same thing happen to me (Queens left in the mail Box)..so filed a formal complaint. Then the next time I left a note on the mail box warning the postman they were coming, and not to leave them in the mailbox. Call me and I would be more than happy to come get them. Michael E. Cooper, Chief Bureau of Feeds and Plant Services Plant Industries Division Idaho State Department of Agriculture P.O. Box 790 Boise, ID 83701 Phone: (208) 332-8620 Fax: (208) 334-2283 e-mail: mcooper@agri.state.id.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:58:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick and Kathy Subject: Re: Last Minute Reminder to Register for EAS 2001! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you Aaron for posting something to the list about EAS - I also have been meaning to do so and time has slipped by without getting it done. To everyone considering attending the meeting and feeling daunted by the deadline (today), please know that it is the intent of the registrars (Jan & I) that any registrations received this week - in the PO Box by Sat. May 19, whether post-marked by the 15th or not, will not be assessed the late registration charges - in effect, we are (somewhat fuzzily) extending the deadline for you. We understand that darn near all beekeepers do everything in the last minute, and would like to make it a looong minute for you. Please understand that next week, starting Monday, May 21, we will need to assess late charges, because that is when we need to start providing commitments to the campus. There is still availability for housing on campus, Short Course, Main Conference, the meal plans, BBQ, Banquet, and (though we're close to the limit for some) all the tours. If you have any questions about the conference, the registration form, or anything related to the conference, please feel free to e-mail me directly, or give me a call. Kathy Hough Red Maple Farm beesbest@mediaone.net 978-468-6000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:06:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: D S Subject: Re: Imirie Shim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > I have used George's shims for 2 years in cut comb production and it has > been the easiest most productive thing I have done to encourage my bees > to draw and fill comb as complete as any beekeeper could hope. > It just makes sense to let the bees do their thing without having to go > through the entire hive. > In winter they are my top entrance and ANYONE can make their own! Are there any pictures or diagrams anywhere that one could see in order to "make there own" (as stated above)? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:15:32 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Fool Me Once MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had disasterous results with formic acid similar to yours. I think the problems went far beyond the packaging leaking and that the delivery rate was high enough to kill or damage the queens. I think they were pretty closed mouthed about it and they probably lost a customer. Looking back I remember "Big Johnson" down in the Carolinas having the same problem. If beekeeping mandates the use of checkmite then there will be a large bonfire here and a lot of 16x20 garden planters. Or I will be buying packages from the folks who use checkmite. I just don't want to use the stuff. I have just gone through a major wave of splits and requeening here and will probably miss a good percentage of this years crop. Last fall a bear was sighted within 1/8 mile of my hives but then not seen again. Still a drought here in the Northeast USA and the pollen count can be measured in inches. Cool and windy, not much flying going on today. I have a roll of 1/8" hardware cloth sitting in my front hall. Another project ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:28:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Imirie Shim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How does the Imrie Shim compare to a hole drilled or notched into the super? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 10:26:49 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: by way of Research Subject: Re: Fool Me Once Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I had disasterous results with formic acid similar to yours. I think the problems went far beyond the packaging leaking and that the delivery rate was high enough to kill or damage the queens. I think they were pretty closed mouthed about it and they probably lost a customer. Looking back I remember "Big Johnson" down in the Carolinas having the same problem. If beekeeping mandates the use of checkmite then there will be a large bonfire here and a lot of 16x20 garden planters. Or I will be buying packages from the folks who use checkmite. I just don't want to use the stuff. I have just gone through a major wave of splits and requeening here and will probably miss a good percentage of this years crop. Last fall a bear was sighted within 1/8 mile of my hives but then not seen again. Still a drought here in the Northeast USA and the pollen count can be measured in inches. Cool and windy, not much flying going on today. I have a roll of 1/8" hardware cloth sitting in my front hall. Another project ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:54:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Re: Imirie Shim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Go to this link: http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/html/shim.JPG Regards, Herb/Norma ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 1:28 PM Subject: Re: Imirie Shim > How does the Imrie Shim compare to a hole drilled or notched into the super? > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:38:26 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Maurice Cobo Subject: Re: Imirie Shim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Imirie Shim was thought of by George Imirie and it's pretty handy because you can remove and install them as you want, where you want it and when you want it. It does wonders for ventilation and it helps to get the bees where they need to be in the hive real fast. The hole in the super you can't move or remove, you can plug it but it looks bad and you have caused damage to your super. I made many of the shims myself, they are super easy to make. I am sure by now you have already seen the picture of it in the Midnight Bee web site. When I just started to use the Imirie Shim, I put one between every box and before I knew the hive was 7 boxes high (the deep supers) and they were elbow to elbow bees in every box. The hive was super strong and it was nice and cool inside, so the bees fanning efforts were more effective in curing the honey down to 16% moisture way faster. This caused the nurse bees to have nothing to do in the hive so they became field bees way faster and they were filling the supers full of honey like you would not believe. I alternated where the hole was, the one between box one and two had the hole in the front, the one between box 2 and 3 had the hole in the back.. so on. The entrances of the shims are only about 1 1/2 inch or 2 in size, so the bees do not have to have too many guards bees to protect these entrances. Front and back entrances were bussy. I ended up with a bigger field force faster. Also the moisture of the hives went way down, making chack brood almost non-existent in my 30 hives. Before using the shim I found a lot of chack brood in the spring. I even use one all winter under the top covers or inner-covers, it minimizes the condensation fall out and chack brood is very rare. Anyway, I share my experience with you. Maurice (Northern Utah Beekeeper). -----Original Message----- From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM [mailto:BeeCrofter@AOL.COM] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 11:28 AM To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: Re: Imirie Shim How does the Imrie Shim compare to a hole drilled or notched into the super? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 21:16:22 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anonymous Ok Subject: Re: U.S. Postal Service MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As you are aware shipped bees are insured. You must file with the postal service. I had to find this out the hard way. I also place some of the blame on the shipper as this is the sloppiest year ive seen in packaging the bees. You must order more bees as the shipper is out nothing. thanks Jim huff kyhoneyman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 21:09:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Lipscomb Subject: Re: Queen Cell In-Reply-To: <200105150313.f4F3D8J24773@listserv.albany.edu>; from cedavidson@NETONECOM.NET on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 06:14:04PM -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Will the bees > mend this cell and save the queen? Also, where did the egg come from? I > suppose I could have missed eggs from the first inspection, but there was NO > other brood and there were so few bees, I am sure I would have seen her. > The first thing that comes to my mind is that you may have a laying worker in the hive and it is just a drone egg in the queen cell. Another possible answer is that the hive did die and a swarm found the hive ready for them to make it their new home. The final thing I can think of is one of the frames you brought over had a young larvae that was used by the bees to raise a marginal queen and they are now in the process of supercedure. If you can add another frame that has eggs and brood you may be able to salvage the hive. I would at least consider getting a queen for them. -- | There is no doubt we need government in our lives. There is also no doubt that we need salt in our diet. Watch out for too much of either one. AA4YU http://www.beekeeper.org http://www.q7.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 20:09:24 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: How to identify the mean hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are you sure that the bees dive bombing you are honey bees from your hives? As you are gardening some distance from the hives could they be ground nesting solitary bees whose nests you are disturbing? If the bees were aggressive you would be stung not just buzzed. Chris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 18:38:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Imirie Shim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Maurice wrote: > When I just started to use the Imirie Shim, I put one between every box and >before I knew the hive was 7 boxes high (the deep supers) and they were > elbow to elbow bees in every box. Dr. Farrar in his honey production studies over 40 years ago increased honey production using the same method as Maurice. Dr. Farrar used holes drilled in each box and used corks. He kept opening and closing holes to move the brood nest or work in the honey supers anyplace he wanted.(Gleanings in Bee Culture Nov. 1965) Bob ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 17:26:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rob Green Subject: Re: Imirie Shim In-Reply-To: <200105152114.f4FLEhJ27681@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed You have me convinced. I'm cutting some cedar into shims this week. If it's as good as you say, my four shallow supers per hive (i have two hives) will not be enough. George Imrie was kind enough to give me more information. I sure appreciate your testimonial. At 01:38 PM 5/15/01 -0600, you wrote: >It does wonders for ventilation and it helps to get the bees where they need >to be in the hive real fast. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 16:34:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Fool Me Once MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Ron & All, Sorry to hear about your problems. I have had serious losses three times in the last 15 years. Each documented in the archives in detail. Each time the main cause was the lack of a registered effective method of control or a product which didn't work as advertised. I still take part of the blame but not all. In the late 80's I found tracheal mites and had high losses. I had the tracheal mites confirmed through lab samples. I used menthol crystals in the fall but our weather was to cold for the menthol to work so losses kept mounting. When varroa arrived all we had at first was the mitacur strip(Amatraz). I suffered heavy losses till Apistan(fluvalinate) was registered. When i started getting fluvalinate resistant mites I had a year of losses till Coumaphos was given the section 18. If you read my posts from last fall you will see I warned beekeepers *formic acid gel* might not be the answer. I based my opinion on the test results various researchers had ran. All my friends which used the gel are sorry they did. I expect a year of heavy losses when coumaphos resistant varroa arrive(like Italy) until we come up with another solution. I believe (as I posted last fall) that the *apicure* would have worked better if two gel packs had been used like Nick Carldarone used in his tests . Nick however used a higher dose of formic acid gell in his packets. Nick reported 97% varroa control. I hate to say how low the varroa control was when researchers only used one pack. Two things you need to research from the archives Ron is *mite load* and *economic threshold*. Both are talked about in great detail in the new Dadant book *Mites of the Honeybee* by Webster & Delaplane. I believe now varroa can be detected in every hive in the U.S.. The amount of varroa in the have at any given time is *mite load*. The point at which the hive has a mite load so high that you need to treat is called the *economic threshold*. There is a point (above economic threshold) when if the mite load is at that level that the hive can not be saved even with a 98% chemical treatment. I have only given a brief discription of the two subjects but every beekeeper needs to be aware of the terms as we continue to battle varroa. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ps. Thanks for joining me Ron talking about our problems. If all the Bee-L beekeepers would send in their stories many Bee-L beekeepers would be shocked at the problems the mites and problems with treatments have caused. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:02:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Imirie Shim In-Reply-To: <200105151730.f4FHUNJ20359@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > How does the Imrie Shim compare to a hole drilled or notched into the super? I've used both shims and drilled holes, never (intentionally at least) notches. I used tapered shims in two queen colonies 25 years ago before I even heard of George (although I am sure he was out there). I now have holes in *every* brood chamber and a few in supers too, although I normally do not like any ventilation in supers due to summers here being cool sometimes. I almost never use shims anymore. There are lots of pictures of my brood boxes at my website. http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ It is just a matter of taste. They both work. They each has advantages and disadvantages and I think we have covered this before here on BEE-L, but here is a brief recap. Holes: * Are not always there when you need them unless you plan ahead -- or carry a drill. (Hint: use a template so the holes are all in the same location for wrapping, etc.). * Once they are there, they can be taped or plugged (even with a bit of scraped comb) * Can result in bees coming out near hand holes. This bothers some people. * Can cause ventilation in the centre of the brood area. * Seem to be what bees are naturally wired to like to orient to. * Require no extra parts to be carried and lost/found * Present a small area to defend that can be easily reduced or blocked with tape or adhesive drywall screen Shims: * Require lifting or tipping boxes to install * require remembering (and not losing or breaking) extra parts * Ventilate at the top/bottom of a brood box. * Give a larger area to defend. My main complaint about beekeeping is that it is an enterprise with too many moving parts. shims just add a few more. Complexity of a system increases with the factorial of the number of pieces, I think. Am I right George? allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 08:34:15 +0100 Reply-To: Dave Cushman Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: how to identify mean hive?/Gormanston MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Aaron & all The Irish "hide their light under a bushel" The Federation of Irish Beekeepers Association meeting in Gormanston is a great place to meet & talk with about 250 beekeepers. It runs, at a cracking pace, from Monday 23rd July to Saturday 28th July (inclusive). Aaron has been (and we would like to see him again) there are over 50...Lectures, Workshops meetings and demonstrations... there is something for every level of experiance. And after a hard days lectures you can have a pint of Guinness and talk to other beekeepers for hours and hours. After last years "do" I wrote a small descriptive piece... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/gormanston2000 Sorry to clog up the List with what is essentially an advert but this event really deserves a visit sometime during every beekeeper's lifetime. Regards From:- Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding, http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman IBList Archives, http://website.lineone.net/~d.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 07:53:41 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Riach Subject: Mean Bees-Differentiating the Pussycats from the Divebombers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A rough & ready rule is: if the bees leave you alone after you have slowly moved about 2 m (2 yd.) away from the hive you have just manipulated, then they're OK. If they're still with you after 5 m (51/2 yd) then they're mean. However it does depend a lot on ciecumstances - if it's a glorious sunny day and there's a flow of nectar on they will almost ignore you completely, if the weather's poor and there's no flow even the best pussycats will be a bit "tetchy".Also depends on how careful the beekeeper has been - you'll be gentler with no gloves on (easier said than done, but if it's a sunny/nectary day, try it) It's worth recording the "leave-you-alone" distance each time you go through them however to get a longer term view of which are goodies (breed your queens from them) and which are baddies (re-queen them) Alan Riach Bathgate,Edinburgh ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 08:28:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Payton Subject: Re: Imirie Shim In-Reply-To: <200105160449.f4G4n5J07894@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I've appreciated the discussion on the Imirie Shim, particularly the comparison with holes in the brood boxes. I only have one hive, and it came pre-drilled, though I guess I don't make adequate use of these additional hive entrances. I looked at the drawing of the Imirie Shim that was referenced in a post and I'm curious why it doesn't cause problems by violating bee space between the frame tops and bottoms. Do folks using this get addition comb build-up between the boxes? Mark Payton ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 09:47:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Imirie Shim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I make mine out of bottle caps. On at each front bottom corner of whatever super I want to prop. Easier than cuttin' lumber and assembling a formal shim, cheaper, more refreshing and dispels the myth that drinking beer and keeping bees don't mix! Aaron Morris - thinking Miller Shim time! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 12:32:44 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: lea petrou Subject: I need your help... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi all, you might remember this message, as I posted it a couple of months ago. I still need your help though. My name is Lea Petrou, I am a sculptor doing my MA studies at the Royal College of Art in London. As a part of my current work is to try and collect honey samples from different parts of the world, in combination with bits of pollen or dry leaves from the plants, and therefore focus on the natural environment of those parts of the world. The samples are all posted to the same address, all coming together via internet..... This project will hopefully get to an end after a satisfactory as well as representative amount of samples has been sent to me. For that reason, I am asking if you would like to contribute by sending me: (1). A teaspoon of your honey inside a clear plastic bag, labeled with the name of the plant(s) it possibly comes from, as well as the country. If possible, a sample of that plant(s) or pollen will also be very important to have . The honey will remain sealed at all times... (2). A photograph or slide of your beehives, that will be used in a piece of work and (hopefully) exhibited. If you would like me to attribute the photographs to you I am more than happy to do so! The value of your own contribution is incredible! The project has already had a 5% success, and I am very gratefull to the beekeepers that made the effort, I therefore need your help in order the project to move on... If you thing you cannot help me yourself, could you please pass this message on to other beekeepers? If you have any questions concerning my project, please do not hesitate to contact me. My address is: Lea Petrou Royal College of Art 15-25 Howie St. SW11 4AS London UK email:leapetrou@hotmail.com Thanking you in advance for your kind attention to this matter Sincerely Yours Lea _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 08:02:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Bob & Liz (by way of Research)" Subject: Imirie Shim Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hello All, Maurice wrote: > When I just started to use the Imirie Shim, I put one between every box and >before I knew the hive was 7 boxes high (the deep supers) and they were > elbow to elbow bees in every box. Dr. Farrar in his honey production studies over 40 years ago increased honey production using the same method as Maurice. Dr. Farrar used holes drilled in each box and used corks. He kept opening and closing holes to move the brood nest or work in the honey supers anyplace he wanted.(Gleanings in Bee Culture Nov. 1965) Bob ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:20:02 -0400 Reply-To: beeman@kingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kent stienburg Subject: Re: beer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > > I make mine out of bottle caps. On at each front bottom corner > of whatever super I want to prop. Easier than cuttin' lumber and > assembling a formal shim, cheaper, more refreshing and dispels > the myth that drinking beer and keeping bees don't mix! > > Aaron Morris - thinking Miller Shim time! Drinking beer and working bees don't mix??? Who started that myth :) I think it's the perfect day to stroll down to see the girls and have a wobbly pop. Spring has started here fairly decent, dandelions are out now. I've made my splits and the queens seem to have taken well. Kent Stienburg Ontario Canada ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 12:33:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Chuck Subject: bacillus thurengiensis kurstaki (BTK) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The newspaper says that gypsy moth spraying using bacillus thurengiensis kurstaki (BTK) will begin 20 or so miles from my area (Wheaton & Wayne, IL). I had previously heard that the whole Chicago area would be sprayed for gypsy moth this summer. Of course I've used BT on my garden vegetables for years to stop catepillars, but I never kept bees before. Can I assume that there is no concern for my bees because they are unlikely to ingest it? I found no mention of BT or BTK in the archives (at least from 1997 onward). Chuck Wettergreen Geneva, IL ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:17:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: bacillus thurengiensis kurstaki (BTK) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Chuck and Everyone, Btk itself will not harm honey bees but some of the other things like surfactants and stickers might if they are applied directly to the insects. At least here in MN when Btk is used on gypsy moth spraying is done very early in the morning before there is any significant honey bee activity and the applications do not seem to have any impact on honey bees. There appears to be more impact on cars than bees ( the stickers really do their job and it can be difficult to wash the stuff off if it is allowed to dry ) I doubt you will have any problems. Hope this helps. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 12:14:19 -0700 Reply-To: mdshepherd@xerces.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Shepherd Subject: Re: bacillus thurengiensis kurstaki (BTK) In-Reply-To: <200105161836.f4GIaWJ29825@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chuck, There is apparently no impact on bees from spraying Btk. Different variants of Bt will effectively target different orders of insects: Btk will only hit Lepidoptera. Of course, Lepidoptera is one of the more diverse orders of insects (approximately 13,700 species in North America) and Btk will kill most species of moths and butterflies in addition to the targeted gypsy moth. Btk is widely used under the guise of being a benign or less damaging treatment than the chemicals previously used. It is (remember Fenitrothion spraying in New Brunswick to control spruce budworm?), but we should still be concerned about the widespread use of an insecticide that wipes out an order of insects. Imagine a dead zone for butterflies, especially if you are correct about Chicago being targeted. The second issue is related to you using Bt in your backyard. Bt is a valuable tool of gardeners and organic growers and primarily used for spot treatments. Large-scale, widespread and repeated use will likely lead to resistance in pest species to it and it will be no longer of any use. There are reports or diamond back moths developing resistance to Bt in the Northeast, and it may be just a matter of time until resistance develops in other species. This is well recognized in relation to genetically modified crops that have Bt inserted. There is a requirement for farmers to grow a percentage of non-GM crops to reduce the chances of this happening in corn borers and similar. If Bt becomes useless, what do we replace it with? We have been opposing (unfortunately, unsuccessfully) aerial Btk spraying here in Portland, Oregon, but there is a fair amount of information about Btk on our website (www.xerces.org) under "What we do." You'll also find a lot of information on native bees, and our work to conserve native pollinators. Matthew Shepherd The Xerces Society, Portland, OR *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 5/16/01 at 12:33 PM Chuck wrote: >The newspaper says that gypsy moth spraying using >bacillus thurengiensis kurstaki (BTK) will begin >20 or so miles from my area (Wheaton & Wayne, IL). >I had previously heard that the whole Chicago area >would be sprayed for gypsy moth this summer. _____________________________________________________________ Matthew Shepherd Director, Pollinator Program and Publications The Xerces Society 4828 SE Hawthorne Blvd, Portland, OR 97215 Tel: 503-232 6639 Fax: 503-233 6794 Email: mdshepherd@xerces.org _____________________________________________________________ The Xerces Society is an international nonprofit organization dedicated to protecting biological diversity through the conservation of invertebrates. For information and membership details, see our website: http://www.xerces.org/ _____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:49:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: bacillus thurengiensis kurstaki (BTK) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Mathew and Everyone, I just have to comment on this one. Mathew wrote in part: "Btk is widely used under the guise of being a benign or less damaging treatment than the chemicals previously used. It is (remember Fenitrothion spraying in New Brunswick to control spruce budworm?), but we should still be concerned about the widespread use of an insecticide that wipes out an order of insects. Imagine a dead zone for butterflies, especially if you are correct about Chicago being targeted." Sorry Mathew but Btk only kills leps in the first and second larval instars. Anyone who has used in their garden has notices this if they carefully watched. It is very effective on the small larvae but does not seem to touch the larger ones. One or two gypsy moth sprays in an area about one week apart timed by oak leaf emergence pretty closely targets gypsy moth and here does not hit the forest tent capillar with is ahead of the gypsy moth. It will also have no effect on leps that are more than a week or so later in hatching due to its being washed off the vegation and degraded by sunlight. I agree it is to be used carefully but how much more closely can you target a treatment? And also remember with gypsy moth there is likely going to be more applications of other less targeted insecticides if the Btk is not used. On balance it appears to be the best option for dealing with this situation. Not perfect but the best available. It will not produce a "butterfly free zone". blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 07:19:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Chuck Subject: beer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Aaron Morris wrote: >> assembling a formal shim, cheaper, more refreshing and dispels >> the myth that drinking beer and keeping bees don't mix! And Kent Steinburg answered: > Drinking beer and working bees don't mix??? Who started that myth > :) Ithink it's the perfect day to stroll down to see the girls and > have a wobbly pop. Spring has started here fairly decent, dandelions Actually, I think it's much more appropriate to have a little taste of mead to toast the girls' hard work. The bee yard landowners certainly appreciate it too. :?>) Chuck Wettergreen Geneva, IL ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 13:27:04 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Last Minute Reminder to Register for EAS 2001! In-Reply-To: <200105151701.f4FH1fJ19160@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > To everyone considering attending the meeting and feeling daunted by the > deadline (today), please know that ... any registrations received this > week... will not be assessed the late registration charges... Actually I'm daunted by the website. I went there to look around visited a few pages. After the experience I am not much the wiser. I did not find easily find anything that summarizes the whole experience in 100 words or so, including, time place, cost, etc.. Unfortunately, I like most web visitors I suffer from data overload and have a very short attention span. I appreciate succinct pithy morsels of info not mazes of concealed fact. I would appreciate it if anyone can summarise and perhaps relate some personal impressions and/or anecdotes and post to BEE-L. Although the time of year could not be much worse for me, there is a chance I could and would make it -- if I could figure out exactly what it is. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ --- Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know. -- Michel de Montaigne ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:05:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Fool Me Once MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob, I have had the exact opposite results from the use of menthol, miticur=20 (amitraz), and Apistan (fluvalinate) than what you have said in your note. One of the MOST criteria in the use of any miticide is the TEMPERATURE at th= e=20 time of use. Frankly, the largest majority of beekeepers have just IGNORED=20 the directions indicated by the manufacturer or the scientists who did the=20 research on the chemical. They have ignored it for several reasons: did not= =20 think it was that important, interfered with a nectar flow, placed the=20 product in the hive in the wrong location, interfered with the beekeeper's=20 vacation time, or did not take proper care of the left over product that the= y=20 were going to use the following year, and finally, treated at a time=20 CONVENIENT to the beekeeper and NOT the best time to kill the mites. You mentioned that your area is too cool for menthol use. Your area near=20 Kansas City is SOUTH of my home just outside of Washington, DC. Menthol mus= t=20 be used in weather that is warm enough to make it sublime (turn to gas=20 directly from solid without becoming a liquid). The sublimation point of=20 menthol is 84=B0 and the fumes must be present for at least 3 weeks to be=20 breathed by all the bees and unemerged brood in a colony in order to KILL tracheal mites. In my area of central=20 Maryland, menthol MUST be installed BEFORE September 1st to be effective, an= d=20 August 15th is the day that I suggest to by "students"; and your area should be=20 identical. Those who have installed menthol in September or October have no= =20 right to complain that "menthol does not work," because it could not work at= =20 temperature less than 84=B0. Some of these people might say that they still have supers in place in Augus= t=20 and can't use menthol until later. They have a choice: remove the supers an= d=20 treat in August to save the bees and not make as much honey, or treat in=20 September or October and lose their bees to tracheal mites in December or=20 January, or switch to labor intensive use of grease patties from June to=20 December and replacing those patties in the brood chamber every 2-3 weeks fo= r=20 6 months. Tracheal mites are NEVER in brood bees, but only live in adult=20 bees, and these adult bees die of strangulation from mites in their=20 "breathing tubes" when there are no new bees to take their place. The Varroa mite is the EXACT opposite of the tracheal mite. Since the ONLY=20 place that a female tracheal mite lays new mite eggs is in a bee larva cell=20 about one day before that bee cell is capped, it is obvious that the best=20 time to get the greatest kill of Varroa mites is when there is LITTLE or NO=20 bee brood present for the female mite to lay eggs. When is that period in=20 your area? In central Maryland, the queen bee slows down her egg laying=20 dramatically beginning in September and quits completely about November 15th= =20 or Thanksgiving. Hence the very best kill of Varroa mites that you can get=20 is to install Apistan strips on October 1st and leave them in the colony for= =20 a minimum of 6 weeks (about November 15th) and REMOVE them the first day=20 after Nov. 15th that the temperature hits 50=B0, when you will not break a=20 cluster by opening a colony. I am certainly not going to say that there aren't some parts of the country=20 that Varroa mites have become resistant to Apistan, because overuse of Apistan pl= us LEAVING IN THE COLONY ALL WINTER have surely increased the resistance. =20 However, it has been found by researchers, inspectors, and scientists that the=20 locations of truly resistant mites are few and far between. So often, in fact many=20 times, the Apistan strips have NOT BEEN PROPERLY CARED FOR before they are=20 used and their potency is GONE. The chemical fluvalinate is destroyed by LIGHT, aging, too= =20 much ventilation, and excessive temperatures. Yet, beekeepers open a packag= e=20 of Apistan, remove a strip or two, and leave the remainder of the package open to the=20 light, wind, and high temperatures in the back of their pickup truck. The=20 Apistan strip loses its potency and the beekeeper loses bee colonies, and then claims that= =20 the mites have become resistant to Apistan. Horsefeathers! The carelessnes= s=20 of the beekeeper (who did not read all of the directions on the use of=20 Apistan) caused his loss of bees. Miticur was a fine product that worked well, and still works wonderfully in=20 Europe. Some commercial beekeepers discovered that certain veterinarian products=20 contained a higher percentage of AMITRAZ than mitcur strips and was also=20 cheaper; so they bought the product to treat their bees for Varroa. =20 Thousands of colonies died, and these unscrupulous beekeepers had the gall t= o=20 enter suit against the Hoffman-LaRoche Co., the manufacturer of Miticur. =20 Rather than hire expensive lawyers and spend time in court, Hoffman-LaRoche simply withdrew all Miticur= =20 from production. Again, beekeepers fault, and not the fault of the product. When the speed limit sign says 65 mph, and a person gets killed when he is=20 driving 80 mph, does his family have the right to claim that the curve in the road=20 was too sharp? There would be so many less so-called beekeeping problems if= =20 beekeepers would just read ALL the directions and FOLLOW them, plus learn some bee=20 biology so they are better able to understand the problems of their "girls" As you know, I am not some hobbyist who has had 3-4 colonies for a few years= .=20 Until I became disabled by severe strokes in 1996 and 97 that caused me to=20 cut back to just 20 colonies, I have kept 100-150 colonies for most of the 6= 8=20 years that I have been keeping bees. I will end this long diatribe by saying "you can't keep bees like Daddy kept= =20 bees!" Daddy did not have mites, Africanized bees, public fear of bees, resistant=20 AFB, viruses or imported honey. I hope that I have helped. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:34:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Digger Subject: Adding a brood chamber MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi - I'm returning to beekeeping after a hiatus of three years. I've got one brood chamber with packaged bees and a purchased queen in their third week. The queen is laying, they've been fed the full time, and things look really good. I'd like this hive to have two brood chambers, and I'm wondering when and how to add it. I was thinking of putting the second chamber, a queen excluder and a super on this weekend, but I don't know if there's something special I should do... move frames around? Wait until after the fourth week? The two chambers have different foundation, with the one now being used having pure wax frames and the added one being Dadant's Duragilt. Any thoughts? Richard __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 06:26:19 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Horsnell Subject: Fw: grapefruit.... & other citrus smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable as i have a couple of grapefruit trees in my yard i am very attracted to = the grapefruit leaf smoke method to test for varroa. nonetheless, i also = have lemon, orange & tangelo trees in the yard & was wondering if they = cld be used for the same test in the same way. does anyone know why the = "literature" always talks abt grapefruit & not other forms of citrus? cheers, mark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 00:05:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Fool Me Once- Apistan (Fluvalinate) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello George & All, Fluvalinate resistant mites are becoming the norm now in the U.S.. I found my first (or they found me) in 1997 in Missouri. They are easy to find if you put a Coumaphos strip in for 24 hours after your Apistan treatment is done. I have made believers out of many Apistan users. Dr. Delaplane found Apistan provided no control at all in his recent tests done in Georgia. Varroa in Europe developed resitance to fluvalinate in 10 years. Why should we think we could get by longer. George has put forth many theories about why we got fluvalinate resistance but left out the most important reason. We only had one chemical to treat with and nothing to alternate with. Why should we expect any different a result than Europe? Coumaphos resistant mites will be harder to detect because of lack of a 98% chemical to test with. Bob ps. Busy time for me but thought I should respond to the list. Thanks to George for the post. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 23:49:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: Fool Me Once- Miticur MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello George & All, "Miticur,a white plastic strip impregnated with Amitraz, was touted as a effective control for the tracheal mites by the manufacurer in 1992-93 ,but studies by the USDA showed little or no value"(Bill Wilson 1993). George is incorrect in saying thousands of colonies died. The number was around 150 and were in Florida. They belonged to a close friend of mine. Miticur was pulled in 1993 mostly because the strips DID NOT control tracheal mites as advertised. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 23:32:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: Fool Me Once -Menthol MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello George & All, I don't disagree with what George has posted but the real world of beekeeping is a bit different. Menthol: When Menthol came we were getting hit hard with tracheal mite losses. We were told even though Menthol was temperature dependent there would be enough warm days for the menthol to work. All commercial beekeepers in Missouri went to Menthol( largest over 7,000 hives). The losses were not much better with the menthol than the year before. The USDA then came up with a cold weather formula using canola oil. Many large beekeepers pull supers and extract into October. Part of the hives could be treated by the dates suggested by George 8/15 to 9/1 but only a small part. I know of no beekeepers in Missouri using the menthol *crystals*. We were told by the USDA and sellers of the menthol crystals *the first year* that they would work as long as we had warm days for part of the treatment period. Over 10,000 hives were treated with heavy losses. The menthol crystals worked (and still do) great in the south. The farther north you go the less dependable they are EXCEPT when you put the menthol on in August in Missouri. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 07:01:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "KAMRAN F FAKHIMZADEH (MMSEL)" Organization: University of Helsinki Subject: (Fwd) Re: sugar dusting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Dear Kamran Fakhimzadeh, > > I read your article "Potential of Superfine White Sugar Dusting as an > Ecological Tool for the Control of Varroasis in the Honey Bee" and have > found the information useful. I have been using fine white sugar powder with > added maltose to remove varroa in a small number of hives here in Vermont; > the results so far resembled what you described. > > Sugar powder without additives compacts and clumps easily during transport > and under common field conditions. I am writing to ask if you think fine > white sugar powder with added maltose or 3% added cornstarch may be > considered appropriate for dusting honey bee colonies. > > Thank you for your reply, > Jeff Cunningham, P.O. Box 368, Putney, VT 05346 US > Dear Jeff and all; I have not worked with these substances. If the structure of sugar is not very much changed by these additives, perhaps they function in the same way as pure sugar does. I can forward this question to my colleagues in Bee-L, since many beekeepers from the USA asked the same question from me. I think,there should not be any problem if a new package of pure powdery sugar opened right in the apiary. Is the pure powdery sugar (without major additives) available in the USA? Best regards Kamran Dr. Kamran Fakhimzadeh Department of Applied Biology P. O. Box 27 00014- Universtity of Helsinki Tel. +358 40 55 36 791 (Mobile) Tel. +358 9 191 58393 Fax. +358 9 191 58463 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 05:55:18 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Fool Me Once- Apistan (Fluvalinate) In-Reply-To: <200105181054.f4IAsDJ29701@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Fluvalinate resistant mites are becoming the norm now in the U.S.. I found > my first (or they found me) in 1997 in Missouri. They are easy to find if > you put a Coumaphos strip in for 24 hours after your Apistan treatment is > done. I have made believers out of many Apistan users. Dr. Delaplane found > Apistan provided no control at all in his recent tests done in Georgia. I'm wondering how soon we will be finding this problem in Canada. Usually such problems develop first in southern areas where the mites are able to reproduce all year and where several treatments a year are necessary. The problem is slower developing in the north where fewer treatments are required annually and newly resistant mites die quietly in winter without a chance to move to the next hive. It appears that usually beekeepers transport the resistant mites north faster than they develop there. Once they develop in a southern area the resistant mites are spread by migratory beekeeping, package shipments, and possibly with queens and attendants being shipped. In the US, due to the widespread hauling and shipping of bees from south to north and east to west and back again, any problem that appears anywhere can be found throughout the nation in a matter of a few years. That seems to have applied to AHB, resistant AFB, SHB, and pretty well every other pest or disease of bees that has been discovered. In Canada, migration is much less common and usually follows particular routes. For the most part, there is not much incentive to migrate and most beekeepers stay put. Since the border has been closed to the USA for over 15 years now, there has been a barrier to the US problems moving into Canada. It is not perfect, since there are some areas with beekeepers across the border from one another, but the natural patterns have tended to delay the incursion of new problems unless, as was likely the case with SAFB, they are imported and jump the line of defence. If, indeed, Apistan resistant bees are commonplace in the US, then I am concerned that they will soon appear in Canada. Some beekeepers in our area are pressing hard to open the border. Others are smuggling queens from the continental US. This would import the problem into the heart of our major honey producing region. Coumaphos has apparently helped protect US bees after fluvalinate lost its efficacy, but I understand that, in time, even Coumaphos will lose its power. Moreover, from what I heard in San Diego, Coumaphos is a most noxious substance that builds up in beeswax at and amazing rate. Once it reaches certain levels, it has subtle but serious effects on brood rearing. Queen rearing is also affected. We do not know how it affects wintering bees that are confined with residues for long periods. It seems to me that it cannot be used more than a few times with impunity. I wonder how often and how long Coumaphos can be used before its useful life, like Apistan, is over. I am not sure this question has been directly confronted. Coumaphos was introduced as a stop-gap, emergency SHB measure, but is now considered by many beekeepers as a routine varroa treatment. That concerns me. I can see Apistan resistant mites coming my way if the effort to import US bees is successful or smuggling is not curtailed and, as it stands, that will mean Coumaphos. Of course, there are other mite control methods. Some have observed here that formic acid can be beneficial, but it has its problems. One is that -- for some reason -- formic seems to be more effective on low levels of mites than on higher levels. It is not as reliable or easy as putting in a strip. Perhaps there are other things in the works that will protect us from varroa, but I don't see any that are all that promising on any kind of commercial scale. In the long term, biological management using specially selected and bred bees is the most acceptable and cost-effective solution to this problem, but it has a large up-front cost and a fairly long development time, in the order of a decade, once begun. A program to develop such stock could reduce or eliminate the burden of mites (and of other major bees diseases in the process) and return tremendous benefits to beekeepers and to society at large. However, I see no will or funding to begin such an endeavour. Pity. Time is a wasting and the time for stop-gap measures is running out. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ --- It doesn't matter what temperature the room is, it's always room temperature. -- Steven Wright ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 08:21:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Green Subject: Fool me once; mite versus bacteria resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why is it that we have been treating for years with tera patties and have not grown a resistant strain of foulfbrood but in a few short years we have resistant mites? Could some biologist explain why a bacteria has not grown resistant while a member of the mite family has. Contact me at: Rick Green 8 Hickory Grove Lane Ballston Lake, NY 12019 (518) 384-2539 Gothoney@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 08:35:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: sugar dusting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Cunningham, " wrote: >I am writing to ask if you think fine >white sugar powder with added maltose or 3% added cornstarch may be >considered appropriate for dusting honey bee colonies. Powdered sugars can have additives and are not good for either winter or early spring feeding since they can cause dysentery. Some powdered sugars do not have additives and are fine to use. However, for the Varroa test, it is no problem since the number of bees is limited and any ingested is limited and will be voided since the bees can leave the hive. The number of bees killed by the additives is normally not noticed even if fed in the spring, because of the rapid buildup in spring. Winter feeding in cold climates is different, but even then, might not be noticed since all the hives so treated will come out of the winter in the same state. In the summer or warm winter climates, it should pose few if any problems. Long answer to a short question. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 08:55:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Adding a brood chamber MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'd like this hive to have two brood chambers, and I'm wondering when and how to add it. I was thinking of putting the second chamber, a queen excluder and a super on this weekend, but I don't know if there's something special I should do... move frames around? Wait until after the fourth week? The two chambers have different foundation, with the one now being used having pure wax frames and the added one being Dadant's Duragilt. If the bees have drawn out all of the foundation in the first chamber then it is fine to add the second. But wait on adding the super until they have drawn out the second brood chambers foundation. Otherwise they will tend to not draw out the outer frames and could make quite a mess. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 09:23:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Fool Me Once MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" A few corrections to George Imirie's post (if I may be so bold). In relation to alternatives to menthol treatments George wrote: > switch to labor intensive use of grease patties from June to > December and replacing those patties in the brood chamber every > 2-3 weeks for 6 months. Continuous treatment with vegetable oil patties was Dianna Sammataro's original recommendation based on her doctoral studies on the effect of said patties on T. mites' questing behavior. She subsequently changed that recommendation to treatment in times of declining bee populations and confinement (fall/winter only). She no longer recommends treatment periods as George wrote. Concerning V. mites, George wrote: > the ONLY place that a female tracheal mite lays new mite eggs is in > a bee larva cell about one day before that bee cell is capped .... Actually, V. mites lay their eggs in cells AFTER they are capped. She enters the cell just prior to capping. Egg laying comes later. In the current issue of "Bee Culture" (May 2001) there is an article written by John Harbo about his work with SMR (Suppressive Mite Reproduction) bees. The article contains a thourough (almost exhaustive) summary of both bee larval/pre-pupa/pupal developement AND Varro mite development cycles. The article is highly recommended! It is not yet posted on http://www.Beeculture.com , which still has the April issue as the current issue. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 09:45:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: Adding a brood chamber MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by anglinsbees@YAHOO.COM to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove the entire quote of previously posted material. ----------------- Original message (ID=980BE561) (50 lines) ------------------- Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 00:38:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellen Anglin Subject: Re: Adding a brood chamber To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Put on the next chamber after about seven of the frames in your first chamber are drawn. Keep feeding them 1-1 syrup untill the second chamber is also almost completely drawn out and full of syrup and/or honey. (Maybe add some powdered kool-aid to the syrup to color it and make it easier to see how much syrup is being stored- thenyou can tell it from necter, or see how much they are diluting it with nectar. Don't put on a super untill both bodies are completely drawn out, and pretty full of syrup an/or honey for the bees own winter food. Once they are set, you can put on a super, and maybe get some surplus honey off of them, but I don't recommend trying this until the bees own kneeds are taken care of. In an average to poor year, bees hived on foundation don't usually make a surplus crop- but if it is a good, yar, you may get some. You will be more likely to get a surplus if you keep feeding the bees until both chambers are nearly full- let them draw comb using syrup, instead of nectar. Have fun! Ellen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 09:08:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: sugar dusting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'm glad this subject came up again. A post on May 8 bothered me, and I intended to reply, but it slipped my mind. fakhim@LadyBird.helsinki.fi wrote: > I will soon obtain my PhD degree from the University of Helsinki. This > is the first PhD degree in Apiculture ever exists in Finland. My PhD > thesis is entitled "Detection of major mite pests of Apis mellifera > and development of non-chemical control of varroasis". I have > developed the powdery sugar dusting as a physical control of Varroa > mite." Perhaps it is the way it was written and I am misreading the claim, "I have developed the powdery sugar dusting as a physical control of Varroa mite." The powdery sugar detection for Varroa mites should be attributed to Paula Macedo, a University of Nebraska Graduate Student working with Marion Ellis. See: http://entomology.unl.edu/beekpg/tidings/btid2000/btdjan00.htm#Article2 Aaron Morris - thinking give credit where credit's due! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:11:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Timothy C. Eisele" Subject: Re: Fool me once; mite versus bacteria resistance In-Reply-To: <200105181247.f4IClpJ01823@listserv.albany.edu>; from Gothoney@AOL.COM on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:21:30AM -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:21:30AM -0400, Rick Green wrote: > Why is it that we have been treating for years with tera patties and have not > grown a resistant strain of foulfbrood but in a few short years we have > resistant mites? Could some biologist explain why a bacteria has not grown > resistant while a member of the mite family has. > The short answer is, that bacteria are a lot more different from bees than mites are. It is therefore relatively easy to find a treatment that will kill bacteria without killing bees, because the drug can attack features of the bacteria that bees don't even *have*, like rigid cell walls. It is quite hard to find something that will kill mites without killing bees, because they have very similar biological traits, and all the mites have to do to become resistant to a given treatment is evolve to become more like the bees in whatever respect will keep it from killing them. It's as if humans were parasitized by, say, dogs. Finding a drug that would kill dogs without killing us would be hard, and anything we did find would probably just be a matter of being a bit less toxic to us than to the parasitic dogs. For example, we could use chocolate to treat severe dog infestations, because it is more toxic to them than to us. But, after a few iterations, the dogs that were more resistant to chocolate would be able to handle as much as we can. Without the toxicity difference, chocolate could no longer be useful for clearing up dog problems, and we'd have to find something else, like onions. The whole cycle would then repeat, until we ran out of choices and had to go back to picking off dogs by hand. -- Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 07:38:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Pehling Subject: Re: sugar dusting In-Reply-To: <200105181351.f4IDppJ03660@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 18 May 2001, Aaron Morris wrote: > I'm glad this subject came up again. A post on May 8 bothered me, > and I intended to reply, but it slipped my mind. > > fakhim@LadyBird.helsinki.fi wrote: > > I will soon obtain my PhD degree from the University of Helsinki. This > > is the first PhD degree in Apiculture ever exists in Finland. My PhD > > thesis is entitled "Detection of major mite pests of Apis mellifera > > and development of non-chemical control of varroasis". I have > > developed the powdery sugar dusting as a physical control of Varroa > > mite." ==================== Hi Aaron and all, I read it as using the powdered sugar as the control and not just detection. I played with a similar technique, myself, last year to see if I could increase mite drop through my screened bottom board. My treatment was to simply puff clouds of powdered sugar between the brood chambers. I was a little worried as to the effect of the sugar on open brood, though, and did not have time to pursue the experiment. Cheers, Dave Pehling (hobbyist) ============================================ | W.S.U. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION-SNOHOMISH CO. | | 600 128TH ST. S.E. | | EVERETT, WA. 98208 U.S.A. | | PHONE - (425)338-2400 | | FAX - (425)338-3994 | | EMAIL pehling@wsu.edu | ============================================ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:48:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Fool me once; mite versus bacteria resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rick, I am sorry to say that there is NOW an AFB that is resistant to Terramycin. It was announced 1-2 years ago by Shimanuki just before he retired. The Beltsville Bee Lab is actively working on a new chemical. Sorry that you missed the announcement, but it has been well publicized. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:01:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Last Minute Reminder to Register for EAS 2001! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Allen Dick wrote: > ... I would appreciate it if anyone can summarise and perhaps > relate some personal impressions and/or anecdotes and post to > BEE-L. Although the time of year could not be much worse for > me, there is a chance I could and would make it -- if I > could figure out exactly what it is. Following are excerpts from an article I wrote for my local beekeeping association newsletter (The Southern Adirondack Beekeepers Association). "SABA - Not the Only Game in Town! In the September Beeline I wrote of my whirlwind summer and the many opportunities attending bee-related events on the East Coast. Yet, one need not travel far and wide to participate in quality honeybee conferences. In this article I'd like to take a closer look at ... The Eastern Apicultural Society (EAS)... The Eastern Apicultural Society of North America, Inc. is an international non-profit educational organization dedicated to the promotion of bee culture, education of beekeepers, and excellence in bee research. EAS is the largest non-commercial beekeeping organization in the United States and one of the largest in the world. Every summer EAS conducts its Annual Conference consisting of lectures, workshops, vendor displays, short courses for beginning and advanced beekeepers, and annual business meeting in one of its 26 member states or provinces in the eastern U.S. and Canada, which include Alabama, Connecticut, Delaware, Indiana, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, New Brunswick, New Foundland, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Ontario, Pennsylvania, Prince Edward Island, Quebec, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Vermont, Virginia and West Virginia. Over 400 people generally attend the conference each year. EAS publishes its newsletter, The EAS Journal, four times a year, sponsors awards to deserving bee researchers and graduate students, and offers modest research grants for applied research projects. I have written in past issues of my experiences at EAS conferences (Seven Springs, Pa. In 1998; Salisbury, Md. In 2000), but in 2001 the EAS conference will just about be in our back yard! An easy drive to Cape Cod and a reasonable conference fee buys room and board for a week, including a private beach! The conference will also feature tour packages offering opportunities to visit a cranberry bog, cruize the shipping canal and even go whale watching. It's not too early to start planning for EAS 2001. The Annual Short Course and Conference will be held the week of August 6-10. The beautiful MMA campus is surrounded on three sides by water, a short walk to the bus or train station, and only one-hour driving time from either T.F. Green Airport (PVD) in Providence, RI or Logan Int'l Airport (BOS) in Boston, MA. Cape Cod is a wonderful place to host an EAS Short Course and Conference. Planning is well underway to make it an unforgetable experience for all who attend... The EAS 2001 Short Course will have a "Level I" course for novice beekeepers with minimal experience or training in bee management. All aspects of the care and management of honeybees will be taught by some of the finest beekeeping instructors in the country as well as Master Beekeepers from throughout the East. Organized by Dr. Dewey M. Caron of the University of Delaware, Level I classes will be highlighted by sessions on managment and bee equipment by Dr. James Tew of Ohio State, Maryann Frazier of Penn State University and Dr. Jeff Pettis of the US Department of Agriculture in Beltsville, MD. State Apiarist Tony Jadczak of Maine will discuss controlling pests and Al Carl, Massachusetts State Apiary Inspector, will demonstrate how to detect and control pests in the apiary. Master Beekeepers Bob Cole from North Carolina, Ann Harman of Virginia, and Bill Troup of Maryland, as well as Massacusetts' own Vin and Jan Gaglione of Crystal Bee Supply will give their perspectives on how they have become successful beekeepers. They will assist short course participants as they spend at least half a day with the bees and instructors in the EAS 2001 apiary. The EAS 2001 Short Course will also have sessions for the more experienced beekeeper. The "Level II" Short Course will feature several one-day concentrated workshops on the bee management, details of overwintering for success, managing colonies for swarm control and how to produce maximum honey surpluses. Additional concentrations will include Integrated Pest Management (IPM), marketing, raising quality queen stock and how to manage bees for their pollination benefit and other products Participants will have a tough time choosing which sessions to attend. Students in Level II can look forward to lots of time in the apiary as well as plenty of hands-on experience. Whether you are a new beekeeper or one who wants to polish your beekeeping skills, this year's EAS Short Course preceeding the main EAS conference is the place to be! But EAS is not just about the conference, it's about the bees and the beekeepers. Being a member offers the opportunity to master your craft and offers the opportunity to meet the big names in the industry. You'll discover that in spite of their notoriety, the big name people are actually down to earth, likeable folks just like the people you meet at our local association meetings. ... I encourage anyone with even a slight interest to become a member and attend the EAS 2001 conference. Attend one EAS conference and you'll be hooked! Many beekeepers make EAS their annual summer vacation. You might too. So seriously consider EAS at MMA. Your beekeeping will be better for it. Plan on attending Bees by the Sea (EAS 2001). Plan way in advance to attend Bees by the Sea, the conference will fill up quickly and registration will be due in June. And start considering now how you might assist with EAS 2002 at Cornell." Aaron Morris - thinking EAS 2001 - "Go Mass!" PS: I'll be giving a presentation in the beeyard on Thursday afternoon during the conference. Session is "Splits, Nucs and Two Queen Colonies!" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 20:44:41 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Private Private Subject: Processing of Propolis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Ladies and Gentlemen: I have been looking through the web for information about how to process propolis but have not been able to find anything. Does anyone have or know any formulas for processing Propolis for ingestion and also for external use? I will appreciate anything anyone can tell me. Thanks Maurice _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 18:59:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Verville Subject: Maxant Wax Processing tank MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Would some one be so kind as to send me via email on how to use a Maxant Wax Processing tank. I received one as a gift but it did not come with instructions. Thanks in Advance. Dave Verville ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 12:36:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: CovRguard Lighting Hello All, Yesterday I was at a new products viewing at Grainger Industrial Supply. One of the booths had the new Cov-R-Guard shielded fluorescent lamps. The lamps are Teflon coated and were designed for food service and processing. Incandesant lamps are available also. They meet Fda,Nsf and Osha standards without the protective plastic covers which turn yellow, are a fire hazard and at times do not contain all the broken glass. Fires started by the use of the plastic covers sparked the technology. G E Lighting makes the bulbs. www.GELighting.com. ALL food processing areas in the U.S. are required to have covered light bulbs to prevent broken glass from food. I thought the list might be interested. Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 12:15:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Removing Mite Strips Hello All, I have for years removed mite strips with a pair of needle nose pliers. This year we have went to a needle nose plier which is 16 1/2 inches long. The price is around the price of a hive tool on the net. One of the discount tool places is advertising two for the price of one this month (May 2001). I have never tried installing the strips with the pliers but a friend says you can put the loose strips in a 5 gallon pail and pick and install without touching the strips. I know you can remove without touching. I told a fellow beekeeper awhile back if I had a longer needle nose plier I would keep from mashing a finger one of these days pulling mite strips from the lower hive body. When we went to the last beekeeping meeting he handed me two pair he had ordered off the net. Exactly what I needed. They work great and will even fish out strips which fall down between frames. They have got a bright orange handle so they are hard to lose in grass. Hope the tip helps. Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 13:01:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew Dubas Subject: soap and hand cream Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit anyone have a recipe for sopa and hand cream made from beeswax ? thanks, Andrew www.dubees.com ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 14:26:04 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Don't buy and queens... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit UNLESS they are hygienic. Non-hygienic queens are now passé. Nobody should have to put up with queens that lack this essential characteristic and the consequent economic losses that result from AFB and chalkbrood. The hygienic characteristic can be easily selected in any strain of bees and can become very strong in only a few generations. NO important characteristics are lost in the selection, but the resulting bees can drastically reduce losses and management problems caused by bee diseases. Demand hygienic queens from your supplier and make sure your suppliers are serious about breeding for this trait. Ask questions. Listen to the answers. Don't take no for an answer. Buy where you *can* get straight answers and hygienic queens. I have put an article with illustrations at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Misc/hygienic.htm to show how easy and obvious the test is. You can test the queens you buy. If everyone demands this trait, it will not be long until it becomes predominant in all bees, both domestic and feral, and the current worries about diseases should diminish substantially. allen --- Cross country skiing is great if you live in a small country. -- Steven Wright ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 14:33:50 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Honey Samples/Archives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi: Does anyone know whether companies, groups, or individuals in countries around the world keep samples of their honey from different regions of their respective countries over long periods of time (yrs or decades) for scientific, agricultural, or cultural uses? We are interested in finding such samples, if they exist. We have found some individuals who keep a sample from every year of production, dating back into the 1950s. We also know that ancient tombs sometimes have vessels containing honey. Thanks Jerry Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 14:46:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: I saw a worker laying an egg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Found this in sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Subject: Workers laying eggs? From: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Adam Finkelstein wrote in reply to thread "I can't stand it anymore" > I saw a worker laying an egg the other day. In a completely queen-right > hive with a healthy, fecund queen. That made my whole week. Now I am a new keeper, but it aint April 1st so can someone explain this phenomenon? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 15:04:47 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Don't buy and queens... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Allen Dick posted a nice synopsis of the fast-freeze liquid nitrogen method used to assay honey bee colonies for hygienic behavior. We developed this procedure under funding from the U.S. EPA and posted it to our web pages several years ago. Marla Spivak later wrote an article in Bee Culture describing our procedure and how it compared to the one described by Steve Tabor. Steve and others cut out bits of comb, freeze them overnight in a freezer, and then return them to the hive. We found this to be too time consuming and the act of cutting the comb often induced vigorouse house cleaning activities. We were never able to get consistent results with this method. With the liquid nitrogen procedure and a sharpened tube (we used metal flashing rather than a soup can), you get a consistent amount of damage to the comb; the liquid nitrogen thoroughly kills the brood, and you don't have to try to re-insert a piece of cut-out comb. Pat Heitkam, a queen producer in California, was the first to try our method in a commercial application mode. I told him about the method at breakfast at an ABF meeting in Portland. He had been working with Marla on breeding for this trait. Marla thought he would have trouble getting the nitrogen, but Pat was able to borrow a Dewar from a local veterinarian, who used it in his artificial insemination of livestock. Pat quickly became convinced that it was a fast and practical method, and he was able to get a Dewar and find a local supplier was happy to sell him the nitrogen (the same one supply the nitrogen to the vet). (In the U.S., you can usually buy or rent Dewars - check with the companies that sell gases for medical or industrial purposes). You don't need to freeze a very large area - in fact the test is a bit more sensitive if you freeze small areas of brood. But you must thoroughly freeze the brood. Medhat was using a double treatment with liquid nitrogen to be sure that the brood was frozen. We usually just checked the opposite side of the comb. If the brood is frozen solid on the underside of the comb, in addition to the area where you poured the nitrogen, you can be sure the brood has been killed. But don't use so much nitrogen that it pours over the sides of the tube and kills most of the surrounding brood - you want a nice, clean delineation as illustrated by Allen and on our pages. And one more caution, if you don't think liquid nitrogen is cold, drop a rubber ball into it (on a string). Pull it out and toss it onto a concrete sidewalk. It will shatter. One word of caution - as stated on Allen's site, liquid nitrogen can cause serious burns. Protective clothing includes gloves, BUT NOT JUST ANY OLD GLOVES. Cloth gloves may be worse than no gloves at all, because the liquid will pass right through the fabric and the gloves will hold it against your skin. Be sure that the gloves are made of a material that will not pass liquids through. Jerry Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 http://www.umt.edu/biology/more http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 11:31:58 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: I saw a worker laying an egg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I saw a worker laying an egg the other day. In a completely queen-right > > hive with a healthy, fecund queen. That made my whole week. > > Now I am a new keeper, but it aint April 1st so can someone explain this > phenomenon? This was discussed several years ago on this list. It was under drones above the excluder. There is research to show that workers do lay eggs and, naturally, they become drones. They are drones in worker cells and not in drone cells which would stand to reason. I have found it and sent samples away for examination on the request of Dr. Ben Oldroyd. There is an article on this. It is Nature Vol. 371 27 October, 1994 page 749. It appears in the scientific correspondence section. The title is "Anarchy in the beehive" by Benjamin P. Oldroyd, Adam J Smolenski, Jean-Marie Comuet and Ross H Crozier. The particular hive that I sampled had a queen that was mated with at least 12 drones. All work was DNA. This study is still being carried out in Australia with beekeepers asked to send in drones from above the excluder. I understand it can happen in the brood chamber below the excluder but the eggs or just hatched larvae are removed by workers from a different line to the one that laid the eggs. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 18:08:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Moye Subject: Don't buy and queens... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If you need liquid nitrogen to freeze brood for hygienic behavior determination, you can transport it in a coffee Thermos. Sources of nitrogen include industrial gas suppliers, beef and diary farmers who perform artifical insemination and store bull semen in nitrogen, dermatologists, and some family practice or internal medicine physicians who use it to freeze skin lesions, and researchers who use it for a variety of purposes. You can also transport liquid nitrogen for short periods in a styrofoam coffee cup. If the cup were to break you could put yourself in danger as the cold nitrogen will frostbite your skin. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 19:14:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: I saw a worker laying an egg Hi All. Is it possible that workers lay eggs more often than we think? There are persistent reports of eggs above excluders; could these be laid by workers? Workers of some bee races, capensis for instance, produce diploid eggs easily; is it possible that European bees do the same at times, as I believe it has been recorded occasionally? Lots of questions I know, and I've no experience of any of this, but I see occasional posts on this and other lists that could be explained if thelytoky is occurring un-noticed. Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 20:44:40 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: I saw a worker laying an egg In-Reply-To: <200105200207.f4K27pJ02848@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > I saw a worker laying an egg the other day. In a completely queen-right > > > hive with a healthy, fecund queen. That made my whole week. > This was discussed several years ago on this list. It was under drones > above the excluder. There is research to show that workers do lay eggs and, > naturally, they become drones. They are drones in worker cells and not in > drone cells which would stand to reason... True, and the same topic came up recently in a different context when we mentioned a report given by Gloria DeGrandi-Hoffman at the ABF in San Diego. That particular BEE-L post is at http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0104D&L=bee-l&D=0&P=2999 (Hope the URL does not wrap) If I remember correctly, she indicated that small groups of Africanized workers had been observed to invade European hives and lay eggs that developed into queens and took over the hive. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ --- A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. -- William James ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 22:37:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jim Stein Subject: Re: soap and hand cream In-Reply-To: <200105191720.f4JHKHJ23980@listserv.albany.edu> >anyone have a recipe for soap and hand cream made from beeswax ? You can try these: BEESWAX SKIN SOAP Ounces by weight: 1 ounce beeswax 6 ounces olive oil 6 ounces coconut oil 9.5 ounces tallow 3 1/2 ounces Iye'(sodium hydroxide) 8 ounces water 2 teaspoons fragrant essential oil Add lye to the water and wait for it to cool to 160 degrees F. Melt the beeswax. Weigh and combine the oils and tallow. Mix in the melted beeswax. Heat the oils to 130 degrees F. Slowly pour the lye water into the fat mixture while stirring. Stir for 20 minutes, add the fragrant oil, and pour the soap into molds. Harden the soap in a freezer for 2 to 3 hours. The soap is harsh at this point so wear rubber gloves and remove the soap from the molds. Place it on unprinted cardboard or paper bags to age at least two weeks. SKIN CREAM 2 1/2 ounces (weight) beeswax 4 ounces (weight) anhydrous lanolin 2/3 cup baby oil 3/4 cup water 1 teaspoon borax (sodium borate, C.P .) Fragrant essential oil (optional) Borax is sold with laundry detergents, but chemically pure borax, which is required for cosmetics, is sold by drug stores ( as sodium borate, C.P .) Lanolin is sold by drug stores. In a microwave or double boiler, melt the oil, lanolin and beeswax to 160 degrees F. Heat the borax and water in a separate container to 160 degrees F. Be sure the borax is dissolved and the wax is melted. Add the water mixture to the oil mixture while stiffing briskly. When white cream forms, stir slowly until the mixture cools to 100 degrees F. Pour it into small, wide-mouth jars. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- jstein@worldnet.att.net ----------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 23:11:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Lipscomb Subject: Re: I saw a worker laying an egg In-Reply-To: <200105192045.f4JKjwJ27169@listserv.albany.edu>; from allend@INTERNODE.NET on Sat, May 19, 2001 at 02:46:27PM -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Adam Finkelstein > wrote in reply to thread "I can't stand it anymore" > > > I saw a worker laying an egg the other day. In a completely queen-right > > hive with a healthy, fecund queen. That made my whole week. > > Now I am a new keeper, but it aint April 1st so can someone explain this > phenomenon? I have found drone brood up in the honey supers often enough to wonder if every now and then a worker is up there laying. I wonder if in a very large colony workers up in the supers may not get enough of the phermones needed to prevent thier ovaries from developing? Other thoughts would be a nearby colony going queenless and developing laying workers who drift around or one of the African genes showing up in the area. -- | There is no doubt we need government in our lives. There is also no doubt that we need salt in our diet. Watch out for too much of either one. AA4YU http://www.beekeeper.org http://www.q7.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 12:34:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Riach Subject: Eggs above the excluder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've seen brood above the excluder on more than one occasion (most recently yesterday) but this was worker brood and caused by workers moving eggs. It always occurs when the bee space is slightly wrong (in Saturday's case the super had far too much bottom clearance, causing the bees to build comb up through the excluder as if it wasn't there) The excluder was in good condition, the Queen was in the brood chamber beneath the excluder but for about 5 cells above the excluder there was a small patch of worker brood. I've never actually witnessed a worker transferring an egg but there's no other explanation that I can think of and they certainly have the manipulative ability. I've never seen drone brood above the excluder, but laying workers would obviously be one explanation of that. Alan Riach Bathgate, Edinburgh ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 00:07:36 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Mann Subject: Re: Eggs above the excluder In-Reply-To: <200105201151.f4KBp0J11422@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Several aspects of this interesting discussion quietly imply drawbacks of queen-excluders. R - Robt Mann consultant ecologist P O Box 28878 Remuera, Auckland 1005, New Zealand (9) 524 2949