From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Jan 3 12:46:55 2003 Return-Path: <> Delivered-To: adamf@ibiblio.org Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by mail.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDF1D24ADC7 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:46:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h03GhO3j010284 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:46:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200301031746.h03GhO3j010284@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:46:53 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0109A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Content-Length: 108794 Lines: 2383 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:58:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Coldiron Subject: One for the books! Here's one for the books! While constructing a metal building over the last few weeks - my honey house, I started noticing several bees buzzing around while I'm working. I didn't think much of it until today, when I noticed that they had collected something very light colored in their pollen baskets. At first I thought it was pollen, then I saw what they were really collecting. It was the Butyl-Flex Rubber Sealant used to caulk the overlapping metal sheets of the building. This adds new meaning to propolis! No wonder my supers and frames are stuck together so tightly! :-o Mark If what you're doing seems too hard..., You're probably doing it wrong. :-) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 08:49:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Beekeepers death in Franklin CT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The latest from the Hartford Courant... Quote But many of those stings likely came after Jennings died of heart failure, the medical examiner's office in Farmington said Friday. "There is no evidence that his death is in any way related to being stung by bees," Associate Medical Examiner Arkady Katsnelson said in a statement. "The stingers seen on his face are most likely from being stung after he died from his dysrhythmia, probably aggravated by the stress of the situation." After conducting an autopsy and subsequent investigation, Katsnelson concluded that the cause of Jennings' death was "an enlarged heart and generalized cardiovascular disease." Unquote Their surmise that his heart failure came about from running from the bees. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 03:09:06 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sharon Labchuk Subject: Bee attacks and scents Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I wonder if many cases like this are due to scents in after shave or >hair spray or eau de Cologne or whatever. I wore a Body Shop eau de C >and was repeatedly attacked among a group of beekeepers who were left >alone. I was attacked some distance away from my hives by bees that are always docile. I'm certain it was the pure citronella oil I put on my skin as a blackfly repellant. Others nearby had no problem. Sharon Labchuk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:41:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick and Kathy Subject: Re: Beekeepers death in Franklin CT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I find myself wondering when Mr. Jennings began to suffer from heart attack symptoms - before or after the colony became excessively aggressive toward him? Most of us have experienced a colony that was so temperamental just about anything sets them off. We've also observed that a fearful person opening a colony of bees is more apt to set them off than a person with no fear. While some of this is (often) inexperienced handling of the frames, I've observed colonies that I know to be gentle in a heightened/agitated state the minute I allow a neophyte to open them. How do bees identify this fear? Do they sense the physiological changes the body goes through? Rapid heartbeat? Increased perspiration? Why would bees be responsive/reactive to a person's fear? Are these same physical symptoms associated with excitement - like a predator might exhibit when about to have a lunch of honey &/or brood? Has anyone ever researched this? Aren't the symptoms of heart attack similar (externally) to the "symptoms" of fear and excitement? Could Mr. Jennings have been attacked because he had an arrhythmic heart (he'd had a heart attack 2 weeks prior to this incident), and having to cope with an aggressive hive pushed him to another heart attack? The doctor in the article Bill quoted speculated that the "stress of the situation" likely contributed to Mr. Jenning's heart attack. I find myself wondering if the strain of lifting (especially this honey filled time of year) set both Mr. Jenning's heart and the bees off... Or maybe the adrenaline from one early sting set his heart off and agitated the bees? Kathy also still wondering about the chicken and the egg... Bill Truesdell wrote: > "There is no evidence that his death is in any way related to being > stung by bees," Associate Medical Examiner Arkady > Katsnelson said in a statement. "The stingers seen on his face are most > likely from being stung after he died from his > dysrhythmia, probably aggravated by the stress of the situation." > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 13:21:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Fact Sheet About Bee Stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Something we are now realising -- after several good workers suddenly quit after visiting doctors -- is that people are concerned and ignorant about the normal progression of reactions to bee stings. When they start to react, some go to local doctors and get told they are allergic. Of course they believe the doctor, even if the average GP (and some allergists) know little about normal reactions to stings. I'm working on a page to hand to new employees, neighbours, and doctors, etc. so that they are not taken by surprise when they people to swell after having initially had very little reaction. The page I'm building is at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Misc/stings.htm I'd also like to know any good bee sting URLs beyond what I have found and listed there. I'd appreciate constructive comments and criticisms, and of course, when finished the sheet is free for all to share and distribute. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 21:43:03 -0400 Reply-To: Charles Harper Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Harper Subject: Arizona beekeepers In-Reply-To: <200109011925.f81JPT222395@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are there any beekeepers from the Sedona AZ area? Wife and I will be there for a week starting on the 7th and would like to visit any area beekeepers if possible. Please let me know privately by Monday night. Our extracting is finished and honey crop has been sold. We're shipping it out after we get back from our trip. Harper's Honey Farm Charles Harper Carencro LA 1000+ Hives ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 23:25:29 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: Arizona beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/1/01 10:56:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, labeeman@NET-CONNECT.NET writes: > Are there any beekeepers from the Sedona AZ area? Wife and I will be there > for a > week starting on the 7th and would like to visit any area beekeepers if > possible. > One source of local beekeepers is to check the list of beekeepers who do pollination service at The Pollination Home Page. You might also check the nhb.org address of the National Honey Board for further addresses of honey sellers. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: portal to pollination info and images http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 06:50:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Small Hive beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Information on SHB from Florida Beekeepers list post. Bob > Hello Everyone, > > Normally you don't find SHB larva in hives with out the hive having > something happening . What I mean is normally you don't have SHB larva in small amounts in the hive at all times. It seems that when you disturb the hive and SHB are present in the area or in the hive. That disturbence is what set them off so they then need to survive so the start to lay eggs in masses so that the more they have, The more likely they are to make it to adults. More eggs = more larva = more SHB adults > With the right condition =Temp., Humidity, Food, are the biggest player in the % of egg to adult.. 98% of the eggs layed well make it to adults. Florida temp. and humidity are ideal most of the time and the beehives have just the right foods.( brood,pollen,honey,dead bees,). Brood is the best protein for them to raise on, plus the hive is warm all year long. > As for Bobs trick, Yes I do think that if any SHB larva where to fall > through the wire they would drowned in the water. But I'm not sure that the SHB lays eggs all the time it in the hive. If this where true we would have larva coming out all the time, Which I haven't seen in any of the hives we've looked at. We have found that when you look in to a hive with low # of SHB that sometimes they start to lay small cluster of eggs, the bees can remove the larvae in this situation if the hive is strong. > > Any disturbance: > > Swarming > Splitting > Pulling honey > Bears damage > Varroa mites > Sometimes just working the bees > > All seem to cause the SHB to lay eggs. > > This year when the rains started so did the SHB. We had not had any > problems till the rains started, Then it was like 1998 all over again. > > With care you can get the upper hand on them. We have had to treat the > ground with Guard Star and with Check Mite strips placed in the right spot we > got control in the hive. You do have to make sure that any equipment that has > SHB larvae or eggs is cleaned so that they are unable to hatch. You can wash > frames with water to remove most the larvae & eggs. The honey that's capped > will not be hurt by washing . Then you can put the super or hive on a strong > hive to let them clean it up. Freezing works also, 48 hours is long enough. > If the frame has a lot of SHB larvae in it just submerge it in a tank of > water for 10-15 min. they will all come out. If the water has nothing > floating in it they will drown. Keeping the honey house clean is very > important also, Bleach works good on the floors. > > Thank you. > David Westervelt Bob added: Ps. You can jar a observation hive with SHB in it and they will begin to lay eggs. ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: 2 Sep 2001 00:09:48 -0000 > From: FloridaBeekeepers@yahoogroups.com > Subject: File - Monthly Reminder > > > Sharing your knowledge and expertice with your peers is the best way to learn > and retain your experiences in the Art and skills of Beekeeping. This > discussion group though intended for all beekeepers was developed to assist > beginning beekeepers in their day to day activities while working with > honeybees. > > REMEMBER, YOU WERE ONCE THAT BEGINNER > > All questions are important and not to be scoffed at! > > Get involved and lend assistance to your fellow beekeepers. > > Bee friendly, > > Doc > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 12:12:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Vaughan Subject: race I've mentioned on the list before that I kept bees in both Africa and California. With all the bad press about bees lately, (I've looked through the archives), aren't there any easy to use charts or diagrams to swiftly and fairly acurately determine what race of bees you're dealing with? It seems to me to be an important bit of knowlege. Why should we have to send bees off to a lab? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:59:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I do not want to make Sue Bee members upset (maybe I do!)but I just returned from a trip to Kansas City and Sams Wholesale Club. Sue Bee 5 pound honey in plastic jug $4.69. I sell my 2 pound jars for more than $4.69 U.S. and they sell great! If you walk across the street from Sams to the grocery store Sue Bee honey is not the low price on the shelf and the 5 pound jugs sell around the national average (6.99 - $14 U.S.). Sept. 2001 Bee Culture page 12: 5 pound - 6.99 - $14 U.S. average price 9.47 and average price for 5 lb. jug last year $10.55 People WILL pay the higher price (even at Sams). Those five pound jugs should be selling for at least the $6.99 figure. By giving your honey away you are hurting all beekeepers and Yourself . Each person which buys a jug at Sams at 55 gallon drum price would have bought mine or Sue Bees honey at the national average. Selling honey to Sams at below production costs is poor business. Will a Sue Bee member please explain why flooding the market with honey at 55 gallon drum prices makes good sense. We had store prices up when honey went to around $.90 a pound a few years back. What happened? Ask a service station owner and the only person who wins in a gas war is the consumer. Gas station owners either learned or went bankrupt and the gas wars of the past do not happen now. Why the honey price wars? Put the price up and keep it up. Then let the consumer *pick* the jar,label or brand he likes. Sure Sams Wholesale should sell at a lower price BUT $2.30 below the lowest price in the U.S. The average price has gone down about a dollar since last year on five pounds (Bee Culture Sept. 2001). Is it going to go down another dollar in price next year to $3.69 for five pounds? How low is Sue Bee willing to go to move their product? Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri Ps. $4.69 for five pounds of honey includes jug and Sam's Wholesale profit margin. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:04:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Coleene E. Davidson" Subject: Fischer's Bee-Quick-An Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I pulled honey this morning using Fischer's Bee-Quick and a Fume board. As expected, bees in hives that were mostly in shade were less affected by the substance. Heating the top also did not appear to improve the process. The repellant, did however remove the majority of the bees in the supers. It also moved them off the broken burr comb on the top bars making removing this easier than when scraping around bees. After the first hive and a bit of experience, I found the product to work quite well. I will make a point to remove supers, (1)Before there is as much burr comb as I encountered this year and (2)When the weather is much warmer. I think had I removed supers when we were in the midst of the 90+ degree hot spell a few weeks back, the process would have been much quicker and cleaner. Just thought I would pass on my experience with this product. All in all, considering the hives I removed honey from are strong hives, there was no aggressive behavior from any of them. Since I prefer using environmentally friendly products, I steered away from the products that required HAZMAT shipping to stay with natural substances. It smells pretty good too! Coleene ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 13:48:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Sergeant Subject: Re: Small Hive beetle Hi Bob & all I'm fascinated by all the trouble the SHB is causing in your climes. Has any research been done on why this creature is ignored by beekeepers with scutellata? If I look long enough in a scut hive, I will eventually find a few SHBs. Scuts do not tolerate them. We certainly don't treat for the pest. The implication must be that scuts have some kind of mechanism to almost completely suppress the SHB; probably hygienic behaviour. Also, I don't find the beetles causing trouble where I store empty (used) hives and comb. But I always ensure these storage areas are accessible to birds, mainly the two kinds of honeyguides that are always around. The only time SHB's explode inside a scut hive is during summer when the colony is in the intermediate to advanced stages of succumbing to capensis. In such situation the colony is doomed, SHB or not. Barry Sergeant Kyalami South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 22:58:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Fred Born Subject: Thanks Comments: cc: Fred at yahoo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks every one for their help and advise. What I did with Barry Codes help was determine that the queen was=20 still in the super as there were no new eggs in the brood chamber. We never did find the queen thou there were fresh eggs. Took the excluder out and hope she migrates down to the brood=20 chamber. Thanks, Fred ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 02:25:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: smitch Subject: Re: Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good morning b.. listers, I normally sit back (lurk) listen and = learn......but when we come to the Price Per lb I have to speak up. When = I first started out having bees it was so I could have honey that I knew = what was in it and where it came from. I sold out once, killed out once = by the mites but I refuse to quit because I cant make any money. There = is a Ice Cream Producer down in Brehnam Tex that has a wonderful slogan. = "We eat all we can and sell the rest". Well this is me. No Im not 3' in = Diameter. While down in Texas I also sold my honey as most for the $2.30 = a lb rate. After I sold my honey I always wondered how I would buy the = things I needed to stay in business....not to support me because I had a = J.O.B....Thanks to several people on this list, George, Arron, = .......Not to name Names, and my Partner here in Va. I will not leave = the house to go sell honey for less than $5.50 a lb. and I raised it = this year from $5.25. I go to my markets and there are people waiting to = see me. I now have the label in one town as the Honey Man. At first this = bothered me because I knew there was a Honey Man, but he had passed to = the other side several years ago, but now I am becoming their Honey Man. = In Texas when I would get the $2.30 a lb I felt like I was stealing from = the customers because they could get it in Sams or HEB or where ever so = much cheaper if on sale. I was worried about many things = there.......BUNK......This Is NOT Bragging.....Please dont think of this = as bragging.........I just Know and now realize I have a very good = product that you cannot get in Sams or Walmart or from China and I will = not try to Compete. Look in your mirror......Who are you? Are you only = worth $2.30 a lb? I didnt think I was! But I know Im worth so much More. = I sell my honey for $5.50/lb, Wax for $10.00/lb and now Pollen for = Approx $1.05/oz......Please......You are providing something so = wonderful to our society. The Customers will pay for it.......Educate = them. Sell them more than just a jar of honey. Sell them your knowledge = and confidence. I know Im not a beekeeper.:-( I am trying and I learn so = much every year. I will one day either make it thru trial and error = lots of trial, more error or I will get to go take the required courses = to be a beekeeper. In the mean time I can look in the mirror and feel = good about who I am and the products I sell at markets. Thanks for listening Scott Mitchell Sassy Springs Apiary Gloucester, Va ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 22:00:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: : Small Hive beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Barry and All, I am still learning about the SHb and you probably are better informed than I am about SHB but I might could answer a couple of your questions with things I have learned. > I'm fascinated by all the trouble the SHB is causing in your climes. > Has any research been done on why this creature is ignored by > beekeepers with scutellata? Very little research has been done but research is ongoing in Florida by Dave Westervelt. None in the americas with with scuts and the SHB. Dr. Shiminuki was always puzzled at why the SHB was causing the problems in the U.S. when only a minor problem in your country. > > If I look long enough in a scut hive, I will eventually find a few SHBs. > Scuts do not tolerate them. We certainly don't treat for the pest. The > implication must be that scuts have some kind of mechanism to > almost completely suppress the SHB; probably hygienic behaviour. Interesting as our bees can not really get a hold on the beetle and evict them from the hive. They seem to finnally simply ignore the SHB. Once the hive is *slimed* the bees want to abscound I am told. > > Also, I don't find the beetles causing trouble where I store empty > (used) hives and comb. But I always ensure these storage areas are > accessible to birds, mainly the two kinds of honeyguides that are > always around. Maybe the shb in your country lays its eggs away from the hive. The SHb in Florida seems to swoop in on a weak hive and lay eggs. Also loves to lay eggs in the honey house in supers waiting to be extracted. > > The only time SHB's explode inside a scut hive is during summer > when the colony is in the intermediate to advanced stages of > succumbing to capensis. In such situation the colony is doomed, SHB > or not. It would seem to me the SHb in your country lives away from the hive most of the time and preys only on weak hives. Maybe the same scenario will develop in our country. Wax moths live away from the hive and then come in and ravage weak hives. They are certainly not the primary cause of hive death but are found in most dying hives in summer. "Wax *worms* killed my hive!" is not a accurate statement but one I hear over and over again from many hobby beekeepers. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 23:04:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Vaughan Subject: SHB Barry's experiences with SHB match my own, in the sense I never lost a scut hive to them. The strangest thing I ever saw in a scutillata hive was a huge beatle, about twice the size of a drone, which I've seen in bee hives and wild wasp nests. Boy, do they cause havoc! A little teeny head, which I assume is to minimize areas to attack, and a smooth, hard body. I guess this is the large hive beatle, and I'm glad they're not here in California. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 03:12:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Sergeant Subject: Re: Small Hive beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have been told there is an article in this month’s ABJ which summarises work done on the scutellata reaction to SHBs. I understand the gist of the article is that African bees don't like the SHB - they try to kill them or just keep them pinned up out of the way. Evidently European bees don't know what to do with the SHB. Barry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 10:13:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Sergeant Subject: Re: : Small Hive beetle Hi Bob A couple of comments on the vulnerability of a weak bee colony. Most creatures will succumb to specific parasites when weakened by some other factor, e.g., a worm-infested dog that will later become flea-infested. Scutellata colonies that are weak, with lots of empty but built comb, will be attacked by wax moths in warmer months. The same can be said about SHBs. But the only time I have really seen SHBs totally infest a scut hive is when capensis infestation is intermediate to advanced. By these stages, social and other order in the hive has totally broken down; the bees have even lost their natural defensive characteristics. Capensis often strikes when a colony is very large (too large for the scut queen to control), so there is often loads of brood, pollen and honey. This provides a tragic sea of plenty for the moths and SHBs, and their populations explode. I should also add that in areas where I store comb, I ensure not only access for birds, but ants as well. The honeyguides have to be kept away from direct access to comb (they will even eat foundation). The ants have access to the combs, to clean out any pollen or honey (which attract other pests), or any pest that may be breeding. Some people call these ants Argentine ants, but to me they are just very small black sugar ants. The male worker has a much larger head than the female, and they can establish gigantic colonies. Barry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 10:21:00 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit smitch wrote: > . I will not leave = > the house to go sell honey for less than $5.50 a lb. and I raised it = > this year from $5.25. I go to my markets and there are people waiting to = > see me. I now have the label in one town as the Honey Man. ...I just Know > and now realize I have a very good = > product that you cannot get in Sams or Walmart or from China and I will = > not try to Compete. .....Please......You are providing something so = > wonderful to our society. The Customers will pay for it.......Educate = > them. Sell them more than just a jar of honey. Sell them your knowledge = > and confidence. Hi Scott and all, The message was put very well. Beekeepers need to educate the public. We do well in Seattle ,covering 5 markets a week. My price is $ 5 /lb. the last 4 years.What works for me is very simple. Don't heat or filter the honey.Have more than one type of honey to taist and buy.Have pictures of the areas that you collect your honey from each year.Let them know what you do to get the honey to market. Your problems with mites , bears, or the weather, is added information that makes them understand more of what beekeepers deal with everyday.The public will respond and your sales will come in every week. The honey in stores is a very good tool for selling your honey.Your product should blow the doors off of the honey from China. I get 10 to 20 times a market," we can't buy that honey in stores anymore, after we have been using your honey." Any beekeeper can sell there product directly to the public.You don't have to be big. We need to have many small beekeepers all over , selling there honey at farmers markets.The public will get educated about honey , beekeeping and the importers and large packers will have to eat a lot of honey.It is very simple , bring the best product to the market place at a fair price and you win. Good Luck Roy Nettlebeck Tahuya River Apiaries Tahuya Wa. US ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 10:54:21 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lionel Evans Subject: Re: Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott, are you selling a quart of honey for $16.50? I sell mine for $5.50 per quart. I understand a quart is about 3 lbs. Lionel Evans 1307 Fern St. Athens, AL. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 19:17:56 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Race MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Various publications have charts to determine race by looking at various features, particularly wing veins. You can download a program from the BIBBA site to plot them on a graph which will show you whether a sample of bees are of one race or hybrids (which will not therefore breed true) and give you a good indication of what that race is. It is not as accurate as DNA but it is a lot more accessible to the amateur. The only equipment you need is a slide projector to cast the magnified image of the wing onto a wall for easy measuring. Chris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 16:55:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GW Subject: Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow, I would like to get some of the prices quoted in the list-server feed back. I get $4.00 per pint (1.5 lb.), $8.00 per quart(3lb.). That figures out to be about $2.66 per lb. I always have been able to use the money for the things that I need to keep the colonies of Honeybees going. I know It does not make any difference to you what I charge, but I just had to put in my two cents worth. GW Northeast Oklahoma When all else fails: READ the DIRECTIONS :-) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 20:10:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Brad Henry Subject: Re: Beekeepers death in Franklin CT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's a good point to mention bee stings, as it's likely there is some way to differentiate between pre and post death stings. I suspect that stings when alive and when "just dead" are similar. However, stings that come when one is "most sincerely dead" likely lack the reaction we all know. The unfortunate aspect of all this is that most medical examiners are not like the dudes in the TV show "CSI". This individual could have died due to bee stings, anaphylaxis, strangulation from his ex-wife, whatever. Could, should, and did are different things. Odds on bet is that he had coronary artery disease and it was his time. Just like lots of other folks every day. It just doesn't make as good paper copy if he wasn't killed by bees. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 18:04:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: smitch Subject: Re: Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lionel Evans asked..... Scott, are you selling a quart of honey for $16.50? I sell mine for = $5.50 per quart. Yes I am Lionel.....when put it as you just did it does seem = excessive......as I also said when I asked the $2.30/lb rate I was = selling to people who could barely pay that Lionel......I also felt bad = when I was home afterwards.......because I know those people were having = a difficult time making ends meet.......I dont sell at flee = markets......these are markets with older people, retired, but wanting = healthy food......another vendor at the market is getting $2.00 for a = dozen eggs......I have bought them also......no way can you buy such = good eggs in the store.....If your customers get to know you.....your = integrity will shine and people will support you......you can stand tall = and proud that you have a wonderful jar of honey to sell......if you cut = corners in your beekeeping and processing your product will not stand = out. I have wonderful repeat customers....the stories they tell about = how they are now addicted to the flavor......I feel so good now after a = market.......you know you have done well at a market when you are happy = tired.......I also appreciate the customers......they are not sure if = they want to pay so much....I will tell them if they are not happy with = it to bring it back for a full refund......I have never bought back a = jar......I keep the money ready though.....It will happen one day...... Thanks for asking and Listening Scott Mitchell ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 12:21:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Fischer's Bee-Quick-An Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Coleene E. Davidson said: > I pulled honey this morning using Fischer's Bee-Quick... > ...I found the product to work quite well. > ...I will make a point to remove supers Before there is as > much burr comb as I encountered this year Getting bees to leave recently-broken-open burr comb is second in difficulty only to getting bees to abandon brood. If one cannot harvest early or often enough to avoid burr comb construction, here's a suggestion that might make the harvesting process less messy, and not add the difficulty of trying to get bees to "abandon" dripping honey from broken burr comb: Go out to the hives a few days before harvest and break apart each super from the other by about 1/2 inch. One can accomplish this with the "crowbar end" of the "paint-scraper style" hive tool. As an alternative, one can avoid the wear and tear on one's woodenware by using a violin string attached to two ad-hoc handles as a "saw", pulling it between supers with a sawing motion to cut the burr comb. One wants to move slowly in this effort, since it is assumed that one would rather not kill bees in the process. One could just as well use one of the thinner metal guitar strings if one is a firm believer in non-violins. :) After a day or so, the bees should have all the honey from the broken burr comb cleaned up, and your harvesting is that much easier and cleaner. Of course, the better approach is to harvest early and harvest often. I dunno about you, but I had people calling as early as May, all asking about when I was going to harvest my "spring comb honey". [Insert blatant plug promoting Ross Rounds here.] I follow the lead of the wineries, and date-stamp my retail honey with the date of harvest and apiary location. While we all know that honey can "keep" for years, people seem to like the idea of recently-harvested honey. It also allows people to better identify what they like with a "vintage" of sorts. jim farmageddon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 22:16:40 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HarrisonRW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/02/2001 9:24:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BusyBeeAcres@DISCOVERYNET.COM writes: > I do not want to make Sue Bee members upset (maybe I do!)but I just returned > from a trip to Kansas City and Sams Wholesale Club. Sue Bee 5 pound honey > in plastic jug $4.69. I was in COSCO in Orange, CT on Saturday and I always check on the price of honey while I am there. Dutch Gold of Lancaster, PA was going for $4.59 for a five pound plastic jug. I will be have a booth at a fair in this community in two weeks this will be my fourth year and I sell my honey for $3.50 a pound (no discount for largers size jars) and I usually sell out of honey or close to it. Small beekeepers you can make money on your honey but YOU HAVE TO EDUCATE YOUR COUSTMERS on why your honey is better than the $2.29 a lb store bought honey. Regards, Ralph Harrison Western CT Beekeepers Association Milford, CT ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 19:26:02 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Organization: Oregon VOS Subject: Re: Honey Prices In-Reply-To: <200109032134.f83LYi214320@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII At retail we get $3.10 (1# plastic Q/L); $5.85 (2# plastic Q/L) and $8.50/quart (approx. 3#). The modest saving to the consumer is really the saving of a jar and label using a 1# container as standard. Our honey is sold in three stores locally at about 50% higher. None are stores where honey would normally be found. Sales are modest, but then, so is our operation. On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, Lionel Evans wrote: > Scott, are you selling a quart of honey for $16.50? I sell mine for $5.50 per > quart. I understand a quart is about 3 lbs. > > Lionel Evans > 1307 Fern St. > Athens, AL. > --------------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, Raw Honey | leave our kids a decent place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 23:28:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Karen Oland Subject: Re: Honey Prices In-Reply-To: <200109030909.f83990201403@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here, it is difficult to get over $4/lb, due to competition from other beekeepers, many of whom have never reaised prices in over 10 years (still at $3/lb). However, even in this market wax goes for $16 to $20 per pound in small amounts (less than a pound or two). K.Oland -----Original Message----- From: smitch I sell my honey for $5.50/lb, Wax for $10.00/lb and now Pollen for = Approx $1.05/oz. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:30:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Burr Comb and pulling supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim wisely pointed out the benefits of breaking supers ahead of actually = pulling them. I wanted to expand on that some. One of the tragedies I occasionally see is comb honey with beautiful whit= e cappings that are streaked with what looks like water. That "water" is= actually honey that managed to drip from the super above and disfigure a= n excellent product. When harvesting comb honey supers it is very important to do one of two t= hings: 1. Go out the preceding day and lift up the supers to be harvested and, = of course, take off the inner cover. It will be best if you also scrape = the burr comb, but it is not absolutely necessary. You can do this as la= te as you like the preceding afternoon or early evening. By the next mor= ning the bees will have cleaned up all the liquid honey...even that which= dripped onto the sealed cappings below! Yet, they bees will not have ha= d a chance to build new burr comb, so you can harvest with no dripping. 2. If you can't take the time to visit the hives the day before, as you = take the supers off separate them with something absorbent or impervious.= I have seen a sheet of newspaper used, as well as a galvanized tray. B= oth do fine, as would cardboard or anything similar. The drippings then = are limited to just one super and then only from any burr comb on top. =20 If you are harvesting supers to be extracted, you may also want to follow= idea #1, above as it greatly cuts down on the mess in your truck, trunk,= garage, basement, etc. You should also put the bottom super inside an u= pside down outer cover or, better yet, a drip pan made for the purpose. = The best I have seen, for the price, are made by an Amish fellow. They a= re just $4.50. NO TELEPHONE, BUT THE ADDRESS IS: Dan Miller 5670 B County Rd. 10 Heuvelton, NY 13654 I own six, and can never seem to find an empty one when I need it. Am ab= out to order another ten! Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturer of round comb honey equipment and Sundance pollen traps ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:42:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Beekeepers death in Franklin CT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brad Henry wrote: > This individual could have died due to bee stings, > anaphylaxis, strangulation from his ex-wife, whatever. Could, should, and did > are different things. Odds on bet is that he had coronary artery disease and > it was his time. Just like lots of other folks every day. It just doesn't > make as good paper copy if he wasn't killed by bees. For those who may have missed the latest on this tragedy, the medical examiners did say he died of heart failure and the bee stings were not the cause. They checked his blood and found no venom or reaction to the bee stings. They actually did a very good job in finding out just what killed him. But, the bees were aggressive and were destroyed. Where they came from is still not clear, but it was said that he told a neighbor about the swarm he had captured. In all, what I have seen showed the press to be exceptionally fair in this incident and the medical examiners to be very competent in getting the truth out. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:09:19 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Beekeepers death in Franklin CT In-Reply-To: <200109041348.f84Dm0J10973@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > For those who may have missed the latest on this tragedy, the medical > examiners did say he died of heart failure and the bee stings were not > the cause. For background on how many people really die from actual stings vs. other factors in stinging incidents, see Tom Sanford's page on the subject at http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis87/apjul87.htm Tom's page, as always is very factual and well written. It is perhaps a bit technical for the average reader, but nonetheless it is very illuminating. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ --- Punning is the worst vice, and there's no vice versa. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:15:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Leland Hubbell Organization: Tekoa Subject: Re: Beekeepers death in Franklin CT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was somewhat surprised to find a reference to this incident in an entirely different venue. Bill Jennings was also an amateur (Ham) radio operator, and an article about his death was included in The ARRL Letter Vol. 20, No. 35, August 31, 2001. He is listed as a Silent Key (SK) which is a long-time Ham term meaning the death of an operator. FORMER ARRL STAFF MEMBER BILL JENNINGS, K1WJ, SK If you would like to read the entire obit as printed, go to the ARRL site: http://www.arrl.org/ You will get a list Amateur Radio News. Scroll down the list of articles until you reach the aricle with Bill's picture on the left. Click on Full Story for the complete article. You can alswo go to ARRL Letter, Vol. 20, No. 35, August 31, 2001 Leland Hubbell Johnstown OH ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:07:37 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Lipscomb Subject: Re: testing SMR stock In-Reply-To: <200108311414.f7VEEx229781@listserv.albany.edu>; from allend@INTERNODE.NET on Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 07:52:45AM -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > One thing many forget though is that the results of well controlled, well > planned trials are typically analysed and proven with statistics. > > Oftentimes the results of such tests are stated as having 95% probability of > being true. That leaves a meaningful chance that reality of the situation > slipped the net and the truth is still -- out there. > > allen > http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ I can see how trying to prove things when there are so many factors to take into consideration becomes difficult. If I remember some of what I read a few years ago in the chaos theory books is that we are looking for attractors in these tests and not always rock solid answers. -- | There is no doubt we need government in our lives. There is also no doubt that we need salt in our diet. Watch out for too much of either one. AA4YU http://www.beekeeper.org http://www.q7.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 12:28:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael R Haggerty Subject: Re: Beekeepers death in Franklin CT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I may be looking at this all wrong, but I really don't care if the bee stings came before Mr. Jennings death or after. What does it really matter? What I would like to know, as I am sure a lot of other amateur beekeepers would like to know, is why did this happen. Why did the bees attack and pursue him? Why did they keep attacking after he was down? I am sure these questions are being looked at and I for one am very interested in the findings. I would also like to extend my condolences to the Jennings family. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:06:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Craig M Spencer Subject: ABF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed According to our state bee inspector, he has observed an high percentage of ABF in our county. He also talk about the increase in Terramycin resistance ABF in both New York State and the US. At one time Tylosin was being considered for approval by the government for use as an option to Terramycin. anyone know what is going on with Tylosin research, if any ? Thanks Craig cspencer@stny.rr.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 18:31:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well said, Scott. Every day, people buy Cadillacs or Mercedes. Ford and Chevrolet have not put them out of business. Every day, people go to a local FAIR and pay $1.50 for a coke. Every day, people go to some sports event like a professional football game, basketball game or, baseball game and pay $3.50 for a hot dog. In the past 5-10 years, I have never sold a single pound of honey for less than $3.50/pound, $4.50 for sourwood or tupelo, $5.00 for a 12 ounce Cut comb, $4.50 for 12 ounces of creamed honey, $3.50 for a 3 ounce beeswax rose, and $8 for a pair of 10 inch dipped candles. One of my biggest sellers at Christmas time is 6 one ounce jars of 6 different honeys in a wooden rack for $7.50 which figures $20.00/pd! Customers buy these for Christmas presents and the receivers learn all about 6 different honeys, and some come back to me to buy as NEW customers. Don't pay the slightest attention to the price in the grocery store or other beekeepers prices. Sell a quality product with a quality label at a quality price. By the way, I sell over 6000 pounds each year which sure adds to my social security check. I will end with a statement of importance: I have never sold a single jar of honey in my life; but I sell the DESIRE to have some of George's honey because George's honey is so high class and special. George Imirie EAS Master Beekeeper Ending my 69th year of beekeeping in Maryland ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 20:11:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: grumpy7 Subject: Re: Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Smitch is right. I have the same experience. People at the local market wait to buy my honey at $3.00 for a 12-ounce bear, $4.00 for a one-lb. bottle, and $10.00 for a quart jug (3 lb.). I could sell more than my crop at these prices. The crop this year was the poorest I've ever had (probably late freeze, dry spring, extremely wet summer, etc.). Also, I've lost 25 percent of my colonies this summer; why, I don't know. I pulled Apistan out of my home-yard today. One hive which had been crawling with bees all over the outside of it three days ago, had not a single living bee in it this morning -- not even a raider, nor even a wax moth. The screened bottom-board was covered with dead bees. There had not yet been time for wax-worms to get started. There was not a drop of honey in the hive. I suppose they were raided out -- I can think of no other explanation for this sudden and total collapse, but a strong colony like that ?? Usually raiding is not so quick. The other colonies in that yard were all fine. Interesting business. Walter Weller ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 13:45:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Beekeepers death in Franklin CT In-Reply-To: <200109041349.f84DnUJ10991@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:42 AM 9/4/01 -0400, you wrote: >But, the bees were aggressive and were destroyed. Where they came from >is still not clear, but it was said that he told a neighbor about the >swarm he had captured. I wonder how many colonies are destroyed or requeened because of one incident of aggression? Nearly all my hives could be considered aggressive at times due to one or a combination of reasons, no nectar flow, bad weather, queenless, skunks, robbing, or other pests or diseases. I've almost always been able to find a reason for their bad temper, or in cases where I don't find one it passes in a few days. Clearly not just case of a bad tempered breeding. -Tim ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:52:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: bee disappearance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walter Weller said, "One hive which had been crawling with bees all over = the outside of it three days ago, had not a single living bee in it this morning -- not even a raider, nor even a wax moth. The screened bottom-board was covered with dead bees. There had not yet been time for wax-worms to get started. There was not a drop of honey in the hive. I suppose they were raided out -- I can think of no other explanation for t= his sudden and total collapse, but a strong colony like that ??" If the hive in question was robbed out, there should have been signs such= as ragged edges on cells from being opened, cell cappings on the screene= d bottom board, etc. Actually, having bees from strong hives disappear has not been uncommon f= or me in years past...I have not yet had the experience this year. The h= ives with the most bees will also have the most mites; that is just a tru= ism. If that number of mites reaches a certain threshold (I don't know w= here that threshold is) the hive will collapse in a matter of days. Some= say that the surviving bees abscond, something I have never observed. A= fter collapse, the robbing begins and bees can easily rob 60-80 pounds in= a day or two. Are you certain your Apistan works? To determine, ether roll a few hives= that have been treated for a full 42 days. If you see ONE mite, the mit= es have become resistant to Apistan and you need to treat with CheckMite = now or almost certainly suffer a huge loss this coming winter. Hope I have helped. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturer of round comb honey equipment and Sundance pollen traps ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 08:20:20 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Honey Prices In-Reply-To: <200109050057.f850vuJ11417@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" George and others have a point. And if you doubt that people will pay for what George call DESIRE - look at what's happened to coffee in North America. As someone else said (and I can't remember who - my apologies), in any U.S. airport you can buy coffee at McDonald's or Starbucks. There's always a line at Starbucks. Also, from another perspective - look at what movie theater's charge for popcorn and sodas. Not any better, just where and when. I well understand the problem facing the large commercial operations or people in small markets in terms of selling a special pack - but I also know that most of my associates and students at the University don't know that honey's vary in taste. Many don't like the "premium" white, sweet tasting honey. But, they may like one of the darker or stronger flavored honey's. Just like wines, not we all have our preferences. Often, as a guest speaker to a bee group, I am asked to judge honey. I always refuse. My reason, which is not a popular one, is that any system of judging honey that takes into account everything but taste is innately flawed. Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:20:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Beekeepers death in Franklin CT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tim Arheit wrote: > I wonder how many colonies are destroyed or requeened because of one > incident of aggression? snip >I've almost always been able to find a reason for their bad > temper, or in cases where I don't find one it passes in a few > days. Clearly not just case of a bad tempered breeding. I think in this case it may have been good PR to destroy the bees, but that is second guessing. From what I was able to guess, based on the weather we had in New England at the time, he was working his bees in cool, overcast weather, which means they were all there and not foraging, not a good time to work them. But the bees were still aggressive the next day. Granted, that is not enough time to get a good look at their normal state, but they may have been a mean colony. And it could have been skunks, a dropped box, whatever. We will never know. As far as bad tempered bees, many years ago I bought a package of Italians that were mean from the time I hived them until I finally got rid of the queen. They would hit me when I was working im my garden, a good 250 feet from the hives. I was a bit new to requeening, so I tried to find her and failed in several attempts. I was fully dressed and they were hitting my plastic hat like rain on a tin roof. Quite distracting. So I called a very experienced beekeeper. He and another expert came over to find the queen. He only put on his veil and the other nothing. In fact he had a cutaway shirt, so lots of bare flesh was showing. They laughed as I got fully suited up. Within two minutes I was asked to go to his truck and bring gloves and suit while the other beekeeper moved to safer ground. The interesting thing was that when he was looking for the queen, I was standing on the opposite side of the frames and spotted her. It appeared that she moved quickly to the lower side of the frame, so got out of sight quickly. Requeened with Carneolean and aggression dropped dramatically. So you can have aggressive colonies that have nothing to do with skunks and the like. There have been many testimonials to that fact here on the BeeL. As an aside. I grow my own with splits. I was told when I first started this that I would have aggressive bees fairly soon since that is what happened from raising from splits. The bees I have now are about the most gentle I have ever had and this is my seventh year of raising queens from splits. The most aggressive bees I ever had was that package of Italians I bought from a commercial breeder in the South. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:37:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: bee disappearance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Walter Weller said, "One hive which had been crawling with bees all over = > the > outside of it three days ago, had not a single living bee in it this > morning -- not even a raider, nor even a wax moth. The screened > bottom-board was covered with dead bees. There had not yet been time for > wax-worms to get started. There was not a drop of honey in the hive. I > suppose they were raided out -- I can think of no other explanation for t= > his > sudden and total collapse, but a strong colony like that ??" Starvation? Probably coupled with absconding. We have had beekeepers lose hives from starvation in the summer when going through a drought. They could not believe the hive could use up all that honey, but it did. Several years beekeepers have had to feed sugar syrup in August- early September, the normal time in Maine for both a low point in nectar and rain. I am fortunate to be near a water body, but still notice a decrease in the weight of my hives during the normal time for reduced rainfall in August/Sept. We usually come out of it about now, and are doing so. But this year, I have had to water my garden much more often than usual. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:53:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: ABF (should be AFB) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" cspencer@STNY.RR.COM wrote: > According to our state bee inspector, he has observed an high percentage of > ABF in our county. That should be AFB (American Foul Brood). ABF is the American Beekeeping Federation. I just got off the phone with Mark Berninghausen (NYS Bee Inspector in the Northern tier). Mark reported that they're finding larger than "normal" incidences of AFB amongst the hobby/sideline sector. All cases are being sent to a lab in New Paltz for confirmation and then on to Beltsville Bee Lab for evaluation regarding susseptibility to terramycin. Some cases of resistence have been verified, but pockets of resistence have not been identified. That is, there is no specific area where resistence has a strong foothold. The leads to SPECULATION that resistence may be out ther more commonly than suspected, it just takes harder looking and evaluation to identify resistent strains. Possibly documented cases of resistence may lead to faster approval for the use of tylocin and other treatments. Taken from http://www.honeycouncil.ca/chc-ccm/afb.html Tylosin: Canadian government researchers Dr. Don Nelson and Adony Melathopoulos have launched a project at Beaverlodge AB, starting in September 2000 to evaluate the effect of Tylosin. This drug has been found effective against AFB in the USA but formal registration is still pending. With good data from Beaverlodge it may be possible to get a speedy registration of tylosin for use in Canada. Health Canada is two years behind in drug registration so we cannot expect anything emerging from the bureaucratic process in time for fall 2001 treatment. Tylosin may be made available on an experimental basis within a shorter time frame if the politicians and government can respond to industry's urgent requests. Erythromycin and lincomycin: These two drugs may be useful alternatives in the future. Dr Don Nelson and Adony Melathopoulos are conducting trials at Beaverlodge Research Station to evaluate the effect of these antibiotics in the control of AFB under cold northern conditions. This research is sponsored by the department of Agriculture and Agri-Food with support from the Alberta Beekeepers Association. Obviously, oxytetracycline is not the only game in town. The hurtle is getting the products registered. And there are beekeepers who will admonish that regardless the chemical, ANY use of chemicals is just hopping on to the treatment "Merry-Go-Around". Aaron Morris - thinking I miss Andy Nachbar! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 16:45:31 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Beekeepers death in Franklin CT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/5/01 10:45:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bhfarms@SUSCOM-MAINE.NET writes: > From what I was able to guess, based on the > weather we had in New England at the time, he was working his bees in > cool, overcast weather, which means they were all there and not > foraging, not a good time to work them. > That Sunday there was some decent flow from Knotweed and a little from Solidago. It was partly cloudy not terribly humid and a good bee day not 25 miles from Franklin And I worked a dozen hives in t shirt and painters bibs. I think he had a snotty supercedure which is something we all encounter given time. That's one reason that marked queens are recommended. Rumor says the hive was inhabited by a swarm. Swarms supersede the old queen once they set up housekeeping. Most likely the combination of his physical condition and the fact that it's hot heavy work is the real story and the fact that nobody got eaten by a shark that day. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 17:34:42 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Burr Comb and pulling supers In-Reply-To: <200109041332.f84DWgJ10175@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200109041332.f84DWgJ10175@listserv.albany.edu>, Lloyd Spear writes >When harvesting comb honey supers it is very important to do one of two t= >hings: >1. Go out the preceding day and lift up the supers to be harvested and, = >of course, take off the inner cover. It will be best if you also scrape = >the burr comb, but it is not absolutely necessary. snip. A deceased friend who was a bee inspector used to make up shims of a bee space to insert between supers. He used a clearer board and reckoned that the bees in the supers would clean up the honey before going downstairs and leave everything nice and dry. It means a lot of carpentry and two visits of course. Overnight is one good way. I have done this but don't have enough shims! The shim is a simple frame of the width of your hive body and the same outside dimensions. I used all mine up to support sheet zinc queen excluders to create a top bee space in a bottom bee space system. -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 23:24:23 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Beekeeper Death Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I do not wish to appear to be insensitive but is this situation being blown up out of perspective? Without attempting to detract from the pain and suffering caused to the beekeeper's family, how many people in all of our countries have been killed in automobile accidents? In a society where the number of events is considered important, surely a death caused by bees must rank very much down the line by comparison with cars? Sincerely Tom Barrett Dublin Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 18:05:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Coleene E. Davidson" Subject: Re: Beekeepers death in Franklin CT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike asked- " Why did the bees attack and pursue him? Why did they keep attacking after he was down" If the bees were the result of a swarm, with all of the travel, the bees could have been an AHB swarm that hitched a ride that far north. In general, I find it difficult to believe that the AHB will not eventually adapt to our northern climates eventually. Coleene ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 23:20:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Reasons Why Beekeeper Trucks Are Never Stolen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They have a range of about 20 miles before they overheat, break down or run out of gas. Only the owner knows how to start them. The automatic choke was long ago replaced by a hand choke that's hard to find. The air conditioner hasn't worked in 12 years. The epi-pens in the glove box are almost that old. The steering wheel hangs on to YOU, as it's covered with propolis. -Door handles and gear shift knob too. You can double its value by filling the gas tank. The last time you changed the fuel filter, you found dead bees in it. The passenger door is held shut with bungie straps. The tailgate is scorched from when the smoker set fire to the supers. There's a quarter inch of dust on the dashboard. It is difficult to drive fast with all the hive tools, baling twine, rags, ropes, chains, buckets of terra mix, veils, bungie straps, boots, and loose papers in the cab. The smoke coming up through the rusted-out floorboard clouds your vision. A few bees are always circling around it. One headlight is held in place by duct tape. So's the glove box door. They're too easy to spot. The description might go something like this: The driver's side door is red, the passenger side door is green, the right front fender is yellow, etc. Top speed is only about 45 mph, due to vibration. The drive shaft was bent when you hung up in dried ruts. One taillight, and the left outside mirror are cracked, from backing into a bee yard after dark. It's hard to commit a crime with everyone waving at you. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 07:03:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mea McNeil Subject: What to say to misinformation? In-Reply-To: <200108311437.f7VEbd201035@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Northern California newspaper, the Mari Independent Journal, runs a weekly column called "Ask a Master Gardener" -- written by people who have attained that title through a course and exam. The last column is rife with misinformation about bees that it will make you laugh if you are not crying. I'd like some advice on what to include in a response to the newspaper -- beyond the fact that bees are not wasps. Have you ever heard of a bee mistaking a sundress for a flower? I understand that the Ana-Kit has been recalled, Mea McNeil Excerpts from the article: How to bee-proof home, yard by Stacy Nelson, Master Gardeners No matter how much we value bees for their pollination activities and interesting mating rituals, bees can be irritating preditors this time of year, especially at picinics. In the late summer, wasps and yellow jackets are attracted to sweet things such as decaying fruit. To avoid attracting them, pick up fruit that has fallen...and don't wear perfume, hair spray or other scented products whe you are in areas frequented by wasps and yellow jackets. Also don't wear brightly colored clothing that might look like flowers. You don't want a bee trying to pollinate your dress! Bees are also attracted to meats, so your best bet is to dine inside or on a screened porch. Seal openings in walls, chimneys, plumbing and eaves that are larger than one-eighth inch. Install fine screens (1/8 inch hardwear cloth) over tops of rain spouts, vents and openings in water meter and utility boxes. ...(refers reader to call local bee association, but no phone #) One way to find a nest is to leave a can of tuna fish open outside and watch where the bees try to go. There are three types of nests...(subterranean, inside walls of houses, aerial nests under eaves; aerosol pesticides recommended. ...According to a University of California Study, you can construct a homemade trap by hanging fish or liver on a string ..etc ...Do not swat at bees as this will prompt them to sting. (Suggests table salt or meat tenderizer for stings as well as Epi-Pen and Ana-Kit). MEA McNeil ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 21:05:21 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Brad Henry Subject: Re: Beekeeper Death MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bee Buds, I agree, it's a simple fact of life that more bee keepers are killed on the road while going to their "yards" then have ever been killed by bees. Unfortunately, perception is reality. And reality is often unperceived. Think of all the people who are now worried about sharks, but fail to realise that 1000's more are killed while driving to the beach. Enlightening the uninformed, wheather in bee keeping or politics, is the key to understanding and support for one's cause. Brad Henry ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:25:30 +0100 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dillon Organization: HOME Subject: Re: Reasons Why Beekeeper Trucks Are Never Stopped MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Green's list must have been already circulated around various police stations in France - as when ever I approach a check point, the individuals in uniform take one glance, then another with more dedication. Realising what is approaching - rapidly wave me on with energetic fervor. I presume it is the smell of the smoker they don't like getting into their uniforms. Peter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:15:01 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Do you know about II or do you want to know MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All I am not trying to poach members from Bee-L. The discussion group that I have set up is not a rival to any existing List. It is not a general beekeeping group, but specialises in Instrumental Insemination. It deals with methods and techniques, II equipment design and the manufacture of "home made" equipment. As such it will not appeal to everybody and it is thought that traffic will be low, so that it will not clutter your inbox. If you have any interest or expertise in II please join us and share your knowledge. It is hoped that the specialised nature and low traffic may attract academics and experst that would not normally take part in discussion groups. There are Database, Files and Photo Album facilities which can be accessed by members and viewed by anyone. These facilities are on the II-List webpage, which is... http://groups.yahoo.com/II-List If you wish to subscribe Send a blank Email to... II-List-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Your subscription will be approved by the moderator. Messages for the list should be sent to... II-List@yahoogroups.com Guidelines This list is about Instrumental Insemination and is not a bee breeding group. It is not intended that any particular strain of bee should become a discussion topic. There are other lists and groups for that purpose. Please stick to the subject. (The discussion of genetic theories and allele problems are allowed provided that the discussion is generalised to all strains and not a specific race.) Questions on bee management are not appropriate unless they deal with specific practices of drone and queen rearing for ultimate II purposes. This is not a list for general beekeeping problems. Personal comments should be directed to the person concerned by direct Email as they clog up the automatic archive facility and disrupt the flow of the thread. Please do not include the senders text when replying to a message, by all means snip out phrases or sentances to reply to, but please do not include the whole of the original message. I hope you will at all times be civil to each other and observe suitably high standards of etiquette and language. (The list is unmoderated and thus relies on you good judgment.) You may receive this invitation through various Lists that you are subscribed to, I appologise for any inconveniance that this may cause. 73s and Regards from Dave Cushman G8MZY Website: http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman IBList Archive: http://website.lineone.net/~d.cushman ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/BxDolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: II-List-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 73s and Regards from Dave Cushman G8MZY Website: http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman IBList Archive: http://website.lineone.net/~d.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:02:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: An exchange regarding "Admire" (Bayer) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by boobooshoney@PEI.SYMPATICO.CA to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quoting of the entirity of a previously posted article. ----------------- Original message (ID=C86A2F5D) (106 lines) ------------------ From: "al picketts" To: "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology" References: <200108302056.f7UKui203355@listserv.albany.edu> Subject: Re: Re: An exchange regarding "Admire" (Bayer) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 18:11:11 -0300 Richard, The lack of response to your inquiry must be telling you something. Bayer have their hackles up whenever anyone suggests that their beloved 'Admire' could be responsible for the deaths of about half a million hives in France (actually the name is Gaucho in this case) when used as a seed treatment for sunflowers. Their hackles are still up when anyone suggests that the high winter (and now Summer as well) mortality rate in PEI (that's Canada) is due to Admire used on potatoes. Personally, I've lost about $100,000 worth of bees in the last 3 years. The fact that these high death rates did not occurr until 2 years after the first use of Admire does not seem to be any proof of guilt. Admire is applied in the soil at potato planting. As I understand it, 2 years after the application when the field is in clover there is still half the original amount in the soil. We, I, suspect the level of Imidacloprid in the necter is high enough to cause the bees to act in a non-normal manner. We have no proof but I am seeing hives with 3 or 4 combs of open brood with no bees except for maybe a dozen workers and a queen. I suspect the bees are affected in much the same way alcohol affects people. Very few people actually die from alcohol but many die from the affects like car accidents, fights, etc. The bees seem to have trouble navigating (they get lost), foraging (they find the flower but can't figure out what they are supposed to do with it), brood rearing (the brood seems to be neglected even with plenty of bees and this shows up as dead brood, high rate of chalk brood and an odd foul brood that looks like EFB and AFB but somewhat different). I also suspect the bees have trouble maintaining a winter cluster and leave the hive to die in the snow. The winter deads have lots of food in the combs but no bees. These observations have been over the past 3 years. Other beekeepers are experiencing similar losses as Admire is being used in their areas. Next spring (2002) all canola grown in Canada cannot be treated with Lindane. The seed treatment of choice is Gaucho (Imidacloprid). Since bees work canola flowers I expect the winter mortality rate for bees in western Canada will be much higher than normal. BUT we have no proof and the results could be very costly. I am trying to breed for Imidacloprid resistance. It's really quite a simple program : if the hive dies don't breed from it. Next spring I must make some very difficult choices - either the bees winter well (better than 50%) or I host an auction sale. Sorry to have prattled on so and I probably have not told you anything you didn't already know. Regards, Al Picketts ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:35:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Tropical Beekeeping advice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received an email from SEAsia asking for some advice on splits, which I will provide, but... Maine is not quite tropical, even though we feel that anything south of Portsmouth, NH fits that definition. So, for those of you in tropical climates, like New Jersey :), I would appreciate your comments, advice on the following- if there are differences from temperate climate beekeeping: 1. Starting new colonies from packages, specifically how many brood boxes and feeding. 2. Swarm management 3. when to add honey supers. 4. If a single brood box, do you use queen excluders or how to you keep the queen out of the supers. 5. any other advice for tropical beekeeping, like a good book that deals specifically with that climate. The individual has put his packages in single brood boxes and is now having swarms, so it seems that he needs to add supers and maybe pull some frames to reduce crowding in the brood box. In Maine, I would tell him to add another brood box, but I seem to recall that many tropical beekeepers keep their operations on a single brood box. So I would like to pass on the correct information. Also, he reads this list so your advice will get to him directly. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 07:47:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: An exchange regarding "Admire" (Bayer) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Al, Sorry to hear of your problems. Hope you will not have to sell out as at least in the U.S. auction prices are disappointing. In looking carefully at the symptions you have listed I have to wonder about tracheal mites. Can you describe the method you use to control tracheal mites and have you sent any samples in for tracheal mite testing lately? Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri Ps. A sample of the odd foulbrood should also be sent to the lab. I do testing for local beekeepers but only after my work has slowed down. I find tracheal mites and nosema in all hives without a regular treatment program. Because of my hectic work schedule I recommend all samples be sent to the bee lab in Beltsville, Maryland. Do you have access to bee testing? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:15:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Beekeepers death in Franklin CT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, > Mike asked- > " Why did the bees attack and pursue him? Why > did they keep attacking after he was down" When bees sting in defense of the hive they are driven by the sent of the venom. A completely normal defense which God gave the honeybee. Failure to wash past stings from a bee suit is common problem with new beekeepers. If the public considers a thousand stings as a huge amount. Even a thousand stings is a small part of the inhabitants of the hive. Moving away from the hive is the best beekeeper defense when bees become defensive. The mood of a hive can change quickly. Protective clothing and smoke should always be close at hand. I have seen our A.mellifera at their worst. Not a pretty site even for me. Staying to PUT the hive back together is the wrong choice. Moving away and then returning a little later with proper gear and smoke is a better choice. Possibly the beekeepers smoker was out and from the report he had face stings indicating bees were inside his veil. We will never know exactly what happened and exactly the part the bees played but the fact he had stings indicates to me the bees played a part if only a small part. I bought a operation years ago from a beekeepers wife. Her husband had died among his bees of heart failure. There was not one sting although he had laid among the bees for hours. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 07:59:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Beekeepers death in Franklin CT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The death of Mr. Jennings was a tragic event, as is anyone's' passing. However, it has been made a sensational news item because honeybees were involved. That the autopsy showed the cause of death to be a heart attack and that the honeybee connection was ancillary was not sensational. I heard a lot about the initial event. It was SENSATIONAL and sold a lot of newspaper. Subsequent findings showed the SENSATIONALISM to less than true and received little press, probably only seen by readers of local papers in Franklin, Ct. People die of heart attacks every day. If the heart attack victim dies while driving on the highway and the newly dead driver causes a horrendous accident, THAT'S sensational news and you'll get full details at 6 o'clock. If a newly dead person receives lots of bee stings, THAT can be SENSATIONALIZED and before full details are known you'll get sensationalized details at 6 o'clock. I doubt autopsy results made the TV news at all, although I admit I do not watch local Frankin, Ct. news. Tom Barret is correct, the story has been sensationalized. BeeCrofter is probably correct, no shark attacks that day although reporters would have sensationalized it anyway. A shark attack AND a beestings homicide in the same day would sell LOTS of papers! However, BEE-L is being just as guilty in the whole sensationalism of this story by carrying it on. It is unfortunate that the bees were destroyed, perhaps good PR but poor science. People will continue to speculate with wild abandon, some still do here on BEE-L. Morphological examinations ruled out Africanized bees, yet speculation continues. Whether the bees were a wild swarm or kept bees is conjecture and cannot at this point be verified. But speculation will continue. I don't recall how the bees were destroyed. Were samples kept for further studies? As beekeepers we will hear of the guy in Connecticut who got stung to death for years. I was out of the country when the incident occurred, but people lined up at my office to tell me the story when I got back. As beekeepers it will be up to us to dispel the sensationalism of the guy in Ct. who got stung to death by educating those who will turn this into great American folklore by letting them know the actual cause of death was a heart attack. The newspapers won't do that, it's not sensational and won't sell. May Mr. Jennings rest in peace. Unless there are more facts to add to the discussion, this sensational topic on BEE-L should also. Aaron Morris - thinking Extra! Extra!! Read all about it!!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 13:53:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ed Subject: Is this Right? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear List, I found a gallon of "Wolman's Green", it is 21.6% Copper Naphthenate and = Inert Ingredients is 88.4% is this the Right wood preservative for = treating my wooden ware before painting with paint? Do you paint the = inside of the hive bodies and bottom boards and etc. etc. with wood = preservative? Thank you for your input. Ed ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 11:33:44 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mats Andersson Subject: Honey strix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello beekeepers. Can someone please explain to me what honeystix are? I live in Sweden and have never seen them here. What are they made of, how do you fill them up and where do you buy them (empty ones, that is). Sincerely Mats Andersson, Stockholm Sweden ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 22:03:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Keith B. Forsyth" Subject: Re: What to say to misinformation? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Toronto Star, Sept. 5 had an article 'Nervy wasps invade late summer patios. It gave some additional sites you may wish to visit. Keith http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic le_Type1&c=Article&cid=999602339814&call_page=TS_News&call_pageid=9683321884 92&call_pagepath=News/News http://health.ucsd.edu/poison/stinging.asp http://www.corp.direct.ca/pestpage/wasps1.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 23:11:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: howard salliss Subject: re- reasons why beekeepers trucks are never stolen. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A great description of a beekeepers truck Dave, but you left out the bit = about the paintwork and the exterior and interior windshield being = indelibly coated with bee crap! and long grass twisted around the drive = shaft and weeds left to dry where they were caught by the side mirrors.=20 Howard. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 01:30:43 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: al picketts Subject: Re: An exchange regarding "Admire" (Bayer) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Thanks for the kind words. There has been a rather indepth survey for Tracheal mites each year for the past 10 years here on PEI and not one mite has ever been detected. My bees have never seen a Varroa mite either. I sincerely hope we are wrong about Imidacloprid since it would have hugh implications world wide in the bee industry but to date are at a loss as to what else could be the problem. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob & Liz" To: Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 9:47 AM Subject: Re: An exchange regarding "Admire" (Bayer) In looking carefully at > the symptions you have listed I have to wonder about tracheal mites. Can you > describe the method you use to control tracheal mites and have you sent any > samples in for tracheal mite testing lately? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 18:27:05 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Samizdat=AE?= Subject: how to cop the official NZ varroa book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've not seen any of it, so I have no opinion on its quality; but anyways, a PDF file (670k) of the book will be placed within hours on the varroa page of the MAF website http://www.maf.govt.nz Be our guests! Reverse foreign aid!! R ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 02:29:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Sergeant Subject: Re: Reasons Why Beekeeper Trucks Are Never Stolen Brilliant stuff, David. Another possible finding on the truck would be a (tattered) bumper sticker, light-hearted one hopes, indicating that the truck or the owner, or both, have been visitors/residents at an institution for the temporarily insane. Barry Sergeant Kyalami South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 14:30:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David L. Green" Subject: Re: re- reasons why beekeepers trucks are never stolen. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/7/01 11:52:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, howardorjan@ON.AIBN.COM writes: > A great description of a beekeepers truck Dave, but you left out the bit = > about the paintwork and the exterior and interior windshield being = > indelibly coated with bee crap! and long grass twisted around the drive = > shaft and weeds left to dry where they were caught by the side mirrors.=20 Right you are! And I also forgot about the truck I had that always slipped out of third gear, so you had to hold it in gear. Which was unfortunate since you could only cruise in fourth if you 1) were empty, 2) had a level or downhill road, and 3) had the wind behind you. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 14:15:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: re- reasons why beekeepers trucks are never stolen. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, > Right you are! And I also forgot about the truck I had that always >slipped out of third gear, so you had to hold it in gear. Which was >unfortunate since you could only cruise in fourth if you 1) were empty, >2) had a level or downhill road, and 3) had the wind behind you. Propolis is a common problem with old bee trucks but my friends and I have taken many old bee trucks as above, solved their mechanical problems, and gotten many years of excellent service. My trucks are old but every winter I repair and fix all mechanical problems. I would not put up with the above problem. The Mechanic Ps. The other day I had a person steal a new 55 gallon drum out of my yard sitting next to my favorite old bee truck. Glad he felt the old bee truck was not worth stealing as I skinned a few knuckles rebuilding the steering last year. I had a friend which every time he went around a corner the drivers door on his old bee truck would fly open. Amazing the things people will put up with. Lack of money was not the problem with the beekeeper. He just didn't see the door flying open as a serious problem. He resented me implying it was.