From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Jan 3 12:46:55 2003 Return-Path: <> Delivered-To: adamf@ibiblio.org Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by mail.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E3D424AE18 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:46:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h03Fjr9d008596 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:46:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200301031746.h03Fjr9d008596@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:46:54 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0110A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Content-Length: 25202 Lines: 567 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 07:48:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lennard Pisa Subject: Varroa relatives? Dear fellow bee-listers, perhaps someone out there with a background in mite taxonomy can help me out as the literature I find is pretty scanty... Are there genera closely related to Varroa? How is the family constructed? (Varroa is one single genus with 2 species in a single family? or not?) Are there any mites one could share or have been shared in the past within the Varroa genus but which, for example, do not live on honeybees? Kind regards, Lennard ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 03:07:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Sergeant Subject: Re: Pedigreed scuts Hi Dan If the scuts are to be migrated, they should be moved before the end of a flow, particularly a mono-flow such as, say, sunflowers. Simultaneously, the move should be timed such that a flow is already underway at the new location. Of course, this can be tricky, and sometimes you need to rely on weeds, and other bits and pieces. For scut hives on permanent locations, by far the best management is to always leave at least one shallow super of honey with the bees. Beekeepers are only human and want to rob all the honey possible at the end of a flow or season! I've also found that scuts perform better without the use of a queen excluder. During periods of hectic brood raising, this allows the queen to use the honey supers for laying. This technique has benefits for calming both absconding and swarming instincts. Best regards Barry in Kyalami, South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 02:59:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Sergeant Subject: Re: A. scutellata Questions Hi Lee I was interested to know if you have a problem with small hive beetles in and around Deming, NM. If so, does your novel use of the AHB provide any resistance to this new pest? More generally, does your use of the AHB provided any other advantages (apart from naturally building a smaller cell), such as resistance to other pests/diseases? As I matter of interest, I have noted, without exception, that introducing a queen from a more gentle strain always immediately calms aggressive bees. Put another way, if I trap a big swarm of really mean scutellata, I requeen them as soon as possible. As soon as a "pedigreed" scut queen is introduced, that entire colony immediately calms down. After a period when all the old bees have died out, the bees are even calmer. Barry in Kyalami, South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 08:56:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Wintering with screen bottoms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jay, in southern Ontario (Canada) wonders about wintering with screen bot= toms. I am near Albany, New York, where I suspect the winters are longer, if no= t colder, than in southern Ontario. I winter with screen bottoms with no= difficulty, and know another beekeeper (one of the best commercial opera= tors around) who has done so for over 40 years! As far as any drafts having any negative effect on the bees, recent studi= es have disproved the old myth about bees constantly rotating their posit= ion within the cluster. Instead, bees maintain their position for severa= l weeks, depending on how often a warm spell arrives. Those on the outsi= de of the cluster provide insulation and exist in a state of almost froze= n...from which they readily recover. Those on the inside generate heat a= nd keep the cluster center at 90 degrees F. My advice is save your effort, and bee disturbance, and keep the screens = on all winter. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturer of round comb honey equipment and Sundance pollen traps ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:50:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeFarmer Subject: Re: Wintering with screen bottoms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd, just a quick question. Do you have bottom boards below your screens or are you running screens only? And if screen only, do your hives sit on the block, ground, pallets, or can you describe what is below them? BeeFarmer Getting Kids involved in 4H Beekeeping http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html Lloyd writes> > > My advice is save your effort, and bee disturbance, and keep the screens = > on all winter. > > Lloyd > Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, Inc. > Manufacturer of round comb honey equipment and Sundance pollen traps > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 09:00:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: screened boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Several beekeepers have asked my privately, and one via Bee-L, what setup= I use for my screened bottoms. =20 I use hive stands, more or less 10" above the ground. The hives (screene= d bottoms) rest on 1.5" supports back and front, so the screens are open = to the ground but are "protected" by the 10" stand material. (Think of t= he hives as being on 2 X 12's, set on their sides.) The guy who has run his bees with screens for bottoms for 40-odd years ha= s his on pallets. I bought some hives from him and some remain on the pa= llets, but I have moved most to my stands. Hope I have helped. =20 Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturer of round comb honey equipment and Sundance pollen traps ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 05:53:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: screened boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Lloyd and All, Lloyd wrote: > The guy who has run his bees with screens for bottoms for 40-odd years has his on pallets Did the beekeeper ever say why he ran his hives with a screen bottom? John Milam of Moore, Texas used to run around 3,500 hives with screened holes (four small in back)) in his *pallet bottom board* pallets to let water out he said. Charles Robson of Phoenix used a approx. 6 x 6 screened hole in the center of each (four) *pallet bottom board* to help with ventilation in the Arizona summer heat while moving. Does the beekeeper you refer to use a full screen or only a small less than 6 inch hole. Is the screen 8 mesh or window screen? Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:18:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: reno Subject: Pesticide spraying for West Nile MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On October 2 around 6:30PM my area of the Union County, Florida was sprayed with pesticide to kill mosquitoses possibly carrying the West Nile Virus. The mosquitoses are still alive, but thousands of my bees and other beneficial insects were killed. I had no direct notice of this spraying. However, I did learn that a notice had been printed last Thursday in the local weekly paper, but of course I do not subscribe to this publication. I called my bee inspector and he arrived to survey the damage and obtain samples of the dead bees for laboratory analysis. He contacted the environmental people and made a complain for me. They are to visit sometime in the future as they real busy handling other complaints in other areas concerning these sprayings. Had I been notified, there was probably not much I could have done as they sprayed in the daylight hours. Maybe I could have screened the bees, who knows. With all the media hype an 'emergency' has been declared by the state, and so I am told there is no recourse. Why do they bother to label these products, if the government is going to ignore them emergency or not. The agriculture department in this state is in charge, and it is my information, that the person in charge, when told of the problem here, did not know that this area was to be sprayed. So the bee keeper takes it again. William Lewis.. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:49:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: screened boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I bought some hives from the same beekeeper as Lloyd. The guy who sold them was pushin' 90 and cutting back on his pollination business (I believe he downsized to about 100 hives). I am not sure if the bottoms on the hives Lloyd bought were the same as the ones I bought, but mine were home-made bottom boards that were about 2 inches deep, the bottoms of which were window screen (vs 8X mesh). The bottom boards were for ventillation, no claims of varroa control were made but with window screen none would be expected. This is all in the archives: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l Use "Ed Lord" as the target. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:23:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: screen bottoms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob asks why our old-timer used screened bottoms. First, he used 8-mesh when he could find it. When he couldn't find it he= used window screen. He started using screened bottoms after bringing a load back from Florida= in the late 40's and having large losses due to overheating. In those d= ays I guess that today's nets were not available, or were hard to get. S= o, he put them on screened bottoms hoping to improve ventilation...which = it did. For the first few years he left them on all summer and then chan= ged to solid wood for the winter. (He spent most of the winter here, and= only went to Florida in February for early build up and splits.) Inevitably, the fall came when he got too busy and an early snowfall caug= ht him with the screens still on hundreds of his hives. He was surprised= in the spring when those with screens did as well as those with solid wo= od. From then on, he left the screens on all year. These are full screens. Of interest, the bees do not completely propoliz= e them. Many have almost no propolis, and the worst only propolize the e= dges and leave the center open. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturer of round comb honey equipment and Sundance pollen traps ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:58:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Frank I. Reiter" Subject: Re: Wintering with screen bottoms In-Reply-To: <200110021305.f92D5iY07466@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd Spear wrote: > As far as any drafts having any negative effect on the bees, recent studi= > es have disproved the old myth about bees constantly rotating their posit= > ion within the cluster. Instead, bees maintain their position for severa= > l weeks, depending on how often a warm spell arrives. Lloyd, Could you give me a reference to that study? I'd be interested in reading more detail. Frank. ----- The very act of seeking sets something in motion to meet us; something in the universe, or in the unconscious responds as if to an invitation. - Jean Shinoda Bolen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 06:18:46 -0700 Reply-To: Pahl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pahl Subject: Screen bottoms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is a "stupid" question from new beekeeper. Don't bees prefer it to be dark in the interior of the hive? This would = obviously not be the case when using screen bottoms. G Pahl ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 16:21:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Pesticide spraying for West Nile Comments: cc: "reno@ATLANTIC.NET" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit reno said: > I had no direct notice of this spraying. However, I did learn > that a notice had been printed last Thursday in the local > weekly paper... > With all the media hype an 'emergency' has been declared by > the state... So, let's see here... a) They say it was an "emergency". b) But not MUCH of an "emergency", was it? If they could afford to give a week's notice, they could certainly have taken the tiny additional time/effort to follow federal pesticide laws. > I am told there is no recourse. Of course you were TOLD that. :) Think for a moment about who was doing the talking. Regardless, there is clearly be more than sufficient grounds for you to extract compensation from them, "emergency" or not. The simple fact that they PLANNED a week ahead to spray during daylight hours should be all you need to prove a willful and reckless disregard for federal law, the general welfare, and public safety. If they can plan a week ahead, they can certainly plan to spray after sunset. By way of comparison, a police car that engages in a high speed chase, siren blaring and lights flashing, is not exempt from liability for property damage and personal injury. "Emergency" or not, the requirement for "due care" by public officials still exists. Such "willful and reckless disregard" by public officials has a rich history of case law behind it. I'd suggest that you have a very strong claim, and one that would be a slam-dunk in any small claims court. (No lawyer required.) All you need is the newspaper article, the analysis by the folks who will post-mortem your bees, and photocopies of a few magazine articles about the impact of "pesticide kills" on bee colonies. Make them buy you new packages at minimum. The basic problem appears to be the use of under-qualified pilots, who simply are not TRAINED WELL ENOUGH to fly on instruments at night. The paper-pushers let these third-rate pilots to fly at tree-top levels at speeds barely above "stall speed" with loads of highly toxic pesticides over populated areas. We are ready here at Farmageddon for any such attempts at spraying. We had a problem with repeated low-altitude overflights (at dawn!) by a local TV station helicopter using our barn as a navigation waypoint. The solution was a $30 "weather balloon" from Edmund Scientific, a $20 tank of helium, and 800 feet of heavy cord. These balloons show up well both on radar and to the naked eye, and one balloon will "protect" about 10 acres. Our local helicopter pilot only had to see the balloon once to get the message. We have not seen or heard the infernal machine since. :) > Had I been notified, there was probably not much I could have > done as they sprayed in the daylight hours. Maybe I could have > screened the bees, who knows. Heck yes, you could have. The lack of sufficient publicity is part of their "reckless disregard". > Why do they bother to label these products, if the government is > going to ignore them emergency or not. The EPA is more than happy to sue states and local governments if they do not follow the federal EPA rules. They have certainly done so before. Perhaps a report to the EPA is also in order. jim farmageddon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:00:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Screen bottoms Comments: To: Pahl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Here is a "stupid" question from new beekeeper. And another from an old beekeeper: Do the bees tend to store more honey in the supers and tend to draw away from these cooler bottom boards? allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 00:35:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Minnasota Hygienics Some time ago I expressed some scepticism about the vigor of open mated daughters of SMR pure breds. I suspect that I'll have to take back my negative comments. I've got about 15 daughter queens from my chronically ailing breeder in hives now, and the brood patterns are lovely, as are the bees. One large hive is hygienic, good tempered, hard working and full of pretty, rather large black bees. The area in front of this Apistan resistant colony had been full of bees with shrunken wings comming out to die, but now I see very few. I'm thinking about buying a Minnasota Hygienic breeder for genetic diversity. Has anyone kept some open mated daughters for any length of time? Thanks, and thanks to the list a second time for helping me with my unusual problem with particals in my honey. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 23:11:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Screen bottoms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pahl asked: >> Here is a "stupid" question from new beekeeper. >> Don't bees prefer it to be dark in the interior of the hive? >> This would obviously not be the case when using screen bottoms. ...and Allen Dick added: > And another from an old beekeeper: > Do the bees tend to store more honey in the supers and tend > to draw away from these cooler bottom boards? This is only one person's view, and your mileage may vary, but I have used varroa screens since 1997, and the bees have not seemed to mind one bit. As for "dark" versus "light" hive interiors, the bees appear to adjust to just about any light level. As anecdotal "proof", I can offer: a) I built a 6-frame observation hive for my home and created "blackout covers" to keep the bees in darkness when they were not being looked at. b) This year, we built and stocked a 9-frame observation hive for the visitor center at a local state park. The glass was exposed at all times, and while not in direct sun, was certainly not "dark". The bees were so productive, we were forced to remove frames of capped honey and replace them with foundation several times this spring and summer. The bees exposed to "constant light" at the park seemed to be just as productive as the bees in "dark". There was no apparent reluctance to move away from the well-lit areas to the less well-lit areas. Brood patterns and honey pollen storage were "per textbook" in both cases. As for the question of "cooler", I have used screen bottom boards since 1998, and have not noticed any reluctance to utilize the lowest parts of the bottom-most frames, but I must make several qualifications: 1) I use 100% mediums. I dunno what they would do in deeps. 2) I have no screens open to the ground. All have some sort of provision for a sticky board under the screen. (You can't "control" something you don't "measure".) 3) One cannot call Virginia "cold", even at its coldest. Virginia "winters" remind me of New England's spring. I have no idea what Bees would do in Thunder Bay Ontario in winter. Again, I think bees are highly flexible creatures, who can adjust to and thrive in a wide range of conditions. Are varroa screens "good" for bees? Do they impact production? I submit that they are much less "intrusive" than putting a colony in an observation hive, but I think that the bees are able to tolerate much more light (and/or cold or draft) than they introduce. jim farmageddon ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 13:42:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 5 Oct 2001 to 6 Oct 2001 (#2001-271) In-Reply-To: <200110070401.f9741MY07001@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10/7/01 12:00 AM, jim wrote: >Again, I think bees are highly flexible creatures, who can adjust to >and thrive in a wide range of conditions. Are varroa screens "good" >for bees? Do they impact production? Have you compared them side by side with hives on regular bottom boards to determine the difference in the same apiary the same year? Has anyone on this list?