From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 07:47:05 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-89.8 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Delivered-To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B17BB49097 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SCLoXx010061 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:38 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0203E" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Message-ID: Content-Length: 48126 Lines: 1085 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:34:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Re: Removing winter wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A question I would like to post to the experience northern beekeepers out there iswhat factors do you consider before removing the hive winter wrap? Here in south eastern Ontario the winters last from late November till early April. Of course every year is different. We don't usually experience any real long periods of bitter cold (less then -18c, 0 f). Once the days warm up above 10c/50f I usually remove the tar paper. I only use tar paper and nothing else to wrap the hives. I use 1/4" screen along the entrance, no reducer, the top of my hives have an old super on them with 4 screened holes and an inner cover with a large screened opening for ventilation. Kent Stienburg ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:41:47 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Keith Malone Subject: Removing winter wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Allen & All, This URL http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Spring/images/img005.jpg comes from this URL; http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Spring/unwrap.htm I hope you do not mind me posting your url to a picture you have of your insulating pillow? They look very interesting, I have some questions about them and there use. It seems you can put a hive top over them, do they allow for an upper entrance or do you use the holes drilled in the brood chamber? What extra R-value do they provide? I like the way they look and seem easy to make, are there any tips you can give about there construction? I assume the bees glue them down to the top of the hive and seal it for you? . .. c(((([ Keith Malone Chugiak, Alaska USA starrier@yahoo.com http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney Check out current weather in my area and 5 day forecast; http://www.wx.com/myweather.cfm?ZIP=99654 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:18:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Removing winter wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > A question though. > I've been warned that hives have to be able to breath. And I have been > given advise that I'm better off packing the hive a little too loose than to > seal it off, even with a vent hole in place. Have you found moisture to > be a problem with your wrap? No, we have not, although we are in a dry area and that may be part of the reason we have not. The wrap is not extremely tight. It is snug, but loose enough that we can pull it down over the hive. It might be compared to a quilted winter jacket in its fit. We do see some small amounts of moisture accumulating in the corners of the hive under the top pillow if it is too tightly sealed at the edges, but not directly above the cluster. That condensation does not seem to be significant enough to be a problem and perhaps provides the water needed by the bees to liquefy the honey. allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 02:55:41 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Removing winter wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ... It seems you can put a hive top over them, do they allow > for an upper entrance or do you use the holes drilled in the brood chamber? > What extra R-value do they provide? I like the way they look and seem easy > to make, are there any tips you can give about there construction? I assume > the bees glue them down to the top of the hive and seal it for you? All this and more is documented on the site at http://www.internode.net/honeybee/Diary/, with complete illustrations. Although it may take some digging around to find it all, using the Google toolbar ( http://toolbar.google.com/ ) on your browser makes searching within any website simple and there is the 'Selected Topics' link on the page that points to the most significant references. Additionally, October, November and December diary pages have comments on wraps and wrapping. R factor I measured at about 3, as I recall. We use two pillows for winter, giving about R6 which seems adequate. As for sealing, the lofting nature of the pillow seals cracks and holes, but the pillow yields enough that bees can cross over the frames. We almost never scrape top bars anymore and never need to scrape lids. Lids can be in any condition and work fine. The pillows do get glued down a little, but peel up nicely in any weather for a peek under a corner or for removal. allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:52:56 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Barrett Subject: Spraying Fine Sugar for varroa control Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Another beekeeper and myself are experimenting with various IPM controls for varroa, one of which is finely ground sugar (called icing sugar here in Ireland and perhaps elsewhere). I will have Open Mesh floors on all of my hives shortly. Can anybody assist me in identifying a means of delivering the sugar on to the bees on the frames? Perhaps a modification to something else like a flexible carton etc. to act as a 'puffer'. And how much (say in ounces or grams should be delivered to each side of the frames? It will save me time if I can get a ready made working solution. Thanks for assistance. Tom Barrett Dublin Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:47:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Spraying Fine Sugar for varroa control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > something else like a flexible carton etc. to act as a 'puffer'. I think this wheel has been invented already and is covered in the archives at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l I believe the search target will be "Blaster" Yup, that's it: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S2=bee-l&q=Blaster&s=&f=&a=&b= Aaron Morris - thinking archives, use 'em early, use 'em often! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:31:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Timothy C. Eisele" Subject: Re: Spraying Fine Sugar for varroa control In-Reply-To: <200203291440.g2TDXMMp015289@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Tom Barrett wrote: > Can anybody assist me in identifying a means of delivering > the sugar on to the bees on the frames? Perhaps a modification to something > else like a flexible carton etc. to act as a 'puffer'. While I haven't tried it yet, there is a device called a "Dustin Mizer" that is intended for applying insecticide powders and should work in this application, too. You can see a picture at . It costs $30, which is a bit more than, say, a modified milk carton, but doesn't seem unreasonable. They also have a smaller, cheaper applicator called a "Pest Pistol" (there is a link to it at the bottom of the page) that looks like it wouldn't disperse powder over a frame as well, but is only about a third the price. -- Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:30:40 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Barrett Subject: Archives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Aaron Morris and All Thanks very much for drawing my attention to the Archives. I got the info I needed on the Varroa Blaster. Sincerely Tom Barrett Dublin Ireland (I am now a confirmed archive searcher) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:22:47 -0500 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Spraying Fine Sugar for varroa control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just about any female has a ready-made "duster" - it is a baby powder bottle. These plastic bottles have a 1/4-turn top that twists to reveal a pattern of small holes in the cap. I tried a number of different approaches, and the baby-powder bottle beat them all. No assembly required. Just squeeze sharply to "poof". Yes, it is just that easy! (Wife/girlfriend not included.) jim ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:43:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lillian Jones Subject: Re: BT anti-mosquito water additive I used mosquito dunks in the tiny 'water-feature' that watered my three bee hives. They consumed BT-laden water all summer and were tremendous healthy towers of bees this spring. (I started with 3 hives, now they are nine). The mosquito dunks killed the mosquito larva very effectively, and BT also kills wax moth larva. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:47:49 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Kilty Subject: Re: enzymes are in a class by themselves In-Reply-To: <200203281757.g2SC6kfF010067@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200203281757.g2SC6kfF010067@listserv.albany.edu>, Peter Borst writes >Not to put too fine a point on it, but if you are really interested in raw, >unadulterated honey, the way to go is to raise and sell comb honey. Not only >is the best tasting, it's the cleanest and purest form. Now you're talking. I have sold out so I will be alternating starter strips with drawn comb in at least 2 supers per colony. Price is higher, work is about the same, I suppose. >Nobody has mentioned the effect that centifuging has on honey. It >incorporates air and often dirt into the honey. That is why we normally >settle out the foreign matter, and strain or even filter honey. I hope we have a good discussion on this one. I try to wipe off any bits that might fall off each frame before centrifuging with a damp cloth. >I am all for getting the best price for honey. But to sell dirty honey as >somehow superior to clean honey due to the presence of "enzymes" with no >documented benefit, seems dishonest to me. I thought the discussion was about selling heated honey rather than unheated honey - the rest is like for like i.e. one variable, the rest controlled. I seem to remember that many Japanese prefer honey allowed to drain from comb. What do you think about pressed honey as regards potential dirt? -- James Kilty ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:29:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: J Mowat Subject: Upper Entrances MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not long ago, someone posted a study on upper entrances taken from the American Bee Journal in 1985. In the study, the lower entrance was sealed and a conical drone escape installed on the brood box. The upper entrance was above a queen excluder. The url is: http://www.beesource.com/pov/hayes/abjaug85.htm Does anyone have the dimensions of a drone escape? Jay Mowat WILLOW CREEK RR2 Erin, Ontario N0B 1T0 phone: 519-833-7238 fax: 519-833-0347 jmowat@sympatico.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:43:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Mowat request for drone escape MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The drone escape pictured is, in reality, a bee escape "invented" by a Ca= nadian, M. Shaprew. Today they are widely sold by most dealers in the US= and by F. W. Jones in Canada. Unfortunately, they have become outrageou= sly expensive with dealers charging around $.50 for something with someth= ing like $.01 worth of plastic! The problem is Shaprew's widow who is ch= arging dealers an outrageous price, thinking she has a monopoly. As we need thousands a year for pollen trap, we now make our own from Sta= inless Steel. A few dealers sell them and I expect most will in 2003 as = they are much less expensive than the alternative. Anyone wanting to kno= w which dealers sell the stainless cones should contact me privately. When buying the drone escapes ask for the plastic bee escapes. They are = widely and wisely used for bee escape boards under filled supers, escapes= to remove bees from homes, chimneys, etc., and for Mowat's intended purp= ose. If you want to staple them to wood, first soak in water as hot as y= ou can stand to put your hand in for 10-15 minutes. Then they will accep= t the staple without shattering. Drones (and queens) can fit through the= m, but because of their shape no bee will re-enter the hive or super thro= ugh the narrow end. Good luck, =20 Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturer of round comb honey equipment and Sundance pollen traps ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:58:37 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: MatHig@AOL.COM Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 27 Mar 2002 to 28 Mar 2002 (#2002-87) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/28/2002 11:03:00 PM Central Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: > The active ingredient is Bacillus > thuringiensis subsp. israelensis Walter, The only Bt with some toxicity to honey bees is var. "aizawai" -- and that's at 10x dosage applied directly to the bees on the comb, an extremely unrealistic overkill situation. Matt Higdon mid-MO, mid USA dandelions blooming ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:17:59 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Mowat request for drone escape In-Reply-To: <200203301552.g2UFXNIV027787@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:43 AM 3/30/02 -0500, you wrote: Lloyd: Thanks for the history lesson. I wondered why these escapes were so pricey. And, the tips about heating them up, etc. are useful. Now, for a bit of data that may be useful to someone. These plastic cones only partially work. We conducted some tests where we had to be sure that the bees had either exited or entered the hive, but could not make a round trip. We placed a trap box under each hive. The front of the trap was a row of holes that fit the plastic escapes. Like a hive body, the trap box was open at the top. For a few days, bees came and went through the row of holes which replaced the standard entrance slot. On the day of each trial, by using strips with cone-shaped escapes, and a sheet of plastic that we could slip between the trap box and the upper hive bodies, we could release groups of bees (cones facing outward), and/or capture returning bees. We also video taped this. Normally the cone-shaped escapes are inside the hive where they can't be observed. But, the upper boxes do slowly empty. So, we reasoned that if the plastic cones "worked" inside the hive, they would work even better at the entrance. After all, it would be some trick for a bee to land on the small end of a cone hanging out into space and squeeze herself back into it. Turns out, not much problem at all to the bees. We had a high percentage of bees getting back into the hive, when all of the cones were facing outward, so as to allow release but prevent bee re-entry. Similary, if we set the cones to trap the bees, lots went into the trap box, then many came back out. So, bottom line, the plastic cones may seem to "work" inside the hive, but our observations indicated that they are very inefficient. Well, we had to have 100% reliability and we achieved it. We tossed the plastic cones and went down to the craft store and bought a variety of cake decorator stainless steel tips. Tried them all - every shape and size. Here's the way to design/produce a cone that works. You want a cake decorating (frosting bag) tip that is serrated (narrow end is a circle of triangular points). Larger points seem a bit better than smaller points, but either can work. You have to cut some slits in the base of the cone and bend them out or in some other way, mount the cones -- they don't have a flange for stapling. But, you should be able to figure that out. To test your tips, use two boxes. Trap a bunch of bees in a box with a row of pointed tip facing outward. Put the box with the bees and cone escapes inside another bee-tight box with a light (either a light bulb or plate of clear plastic or glass - you want the bees in the inner box to see light through the cones). Check after 1/2 hr, 1 hr, etc. The goal is to select tips that keep all of the bees in the inside box (in reality, after about 1 hr, at least one bees manages to get back out of almost any tip shape or configuration). With plastic cones, the bees get out in a few minutes. When it takes more than an hour for any bee to get out of the inside box, you're good to go. You will have to do two things to the tips: Pick the best tip design (point shape and length) and then ADJUST the points. Take a needle nose pliers and bend them inward a bit. You want a final opening that a bee can just fit through on the way out. With serrated tips, you can squeeze that opening down a bit tighter than what's provided with the plastic cones. I used a plastic cone as a starting point - knowing that the small tip of the plastic cone is still too big, but "close" to what you want. I think three design factors are playing into the efficiency of the frosting tips: 1. The steel is much slicker than the plastic. Bees walk easily and can grab onto the plastic. They have a tough time landing and hanging on to the stainless steel. They don't have any problem with the red plastic cones that I had. 2. Pointed tips - rather than a smooth tip hole. Our research shows that bees, if given a choice, avoid certain surface textures and shapes. They especially avoid pointy surfaces, probably for good reason. Imagine trying to land on a set of sharp points facing toward you. 3. Finally, the hole size (small end) is too big on the plastic cones. (This may vary with the strain of bees, so test your bees) We found out years ago that bees from different hives vary enough in size to make a device such as this unusable - and this was long before the introduction of the Africanized honey bee or any use of small cells in foundation. I once bought a "dead" hive from a beekeeper who placed a disposable pollen trap that we provided on his hive and then left it on for days. His bees were too big to get through the trap, plugged up against the back of the trap, and died. With respect to bee size, the strangest thing that ever happened to us was when we used a perforated plastic pollen screen in MT for several weeks; then moved everything to MD (in August). We packed up the research hives and bees, drove them to Maryland, set them out, put on the pollen screens, and found that the bees couldn't get through the holes. Same hives, bees, and screens, 4 days apart. Screens worked in MT, didn't in MD? I still have no explanation. Its as if they swelled up during the trip, like a passenger's feet on a long airplane trip. Now, if you need thousands of cones, maybe Lloyd can point you at a provider. Me, I'd be calling whoever makes the cake decorator tips and see if they could manufacture the "perfect" bee escape -- assuming its not a direct patent violation. Cheers JErry ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:46:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Re: Upper Entrances MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I noticed in BeeCulture an ad for hives with entrances above the brood boxes. I found some of the ad's propaganda explaining the advantages of this interesting. Is anyone using this setup? Or is this what you are doing Jay? Kent Stienburg Kingston Ontario Canada ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 05:19:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Brad Young Subject: Sourwood Honey I was wondering if anyone on Bee-L would know how a person living in Nebraska could get a pound or two of sourwood honey? My mentor in Beekeeping has expressed an interest several times how he would like to taste sourwood honey since he has heard it was one of the best tasting honeys but is produced and sold primarily in North Carolina. I would like to get him some as a gift. I would pay shipping and the cost of the honey, of course. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:32:59 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Edward D Heinlein Subject: Re: Mowat request for drone escape MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Jerry, have any spring over there yet? On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:17:59 -0700 Jerry J Bromenshenk writes: > So, bottom line, the plastic cones may seem to "work" inside the hive, but > our observations indicated that they are very inefficient. Have you, or others, any experience using clear flexible plastic tubing as an escape mechanism on such items as pollen traps? What I'm thinking about here, would have the tubing extend some distance (1-6 in.) past the outer surface of the trap. I wondered if the bees, having exited the trap via the tubing, and returning, would attempt to enter the "apparent" opening in the wooden trap, and not realize they had actually exited from the "actual" entrance, some inches away. Similar to yellow jackets in y.j. traps, ignore the opening to freedom, thinking they can escape through the clear sides of the container. > With respect to bee size, the strangest thing that ever happened to us was > when we used a perforated plastic pollen screen in MT for several weeks; > then moved everything to MD (in August). We packed up the research hives > and bees, drove them to Maryland, set them out, put on the pollen > screens, and found that the bees couldn't get through the holes. Same hives, > bees, and screens, 4 days apart. Screens worked in MT, didn't in MD? I > still have no explanation. Its as if they swelled up during the trip, like a > passenger's feet on a long airplane trip. That is interesting. I would think just the opposite could possibly occur, and the little hummers would slip right through, pollen and all. If you've ever emptied a soft sided (soda) water bottle while hiking one of our near by mountains, and upon returning home to a much lower altitude, you find out the thing looks like someone ran over it with their rig. Ergo the bees would have looked like flying raisins! Nope, musta' been all those stops for junk food along the way. All kidding aside, did the bees ever "acclimate" and after a period of adjustment, once again traverse the screens? If you had suspected such a thing would have happened, it would have been interesting to note if they did just "swell" or if the actually gained weight. Thanks for the cone escape ideas. Ed Heinlein Helena, MT ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:31:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dan Dean Subject: Plants Poisonous to Bees in 1700's....HELP Requesting info on plants poisonous to bees in 1700's. Please help in research by answering 3/20/2002 posting ......"Plants Poisonous to Bees" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:35:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Bees and Hot tub Greetings all, My bees have started to create a bit of a problem for the owner of the land on which I have an outyard. He installed a hot tub a couple months ago, and the bees have begun to frequent the tub on a regular basis. The odd part is that they are finding a way in under the cover. When he uncovers the tub, he says there is a hundred or so drowned bees. He says this doesnt bother him, but I dont want it to become the kind of problem that would cause him to want me to move the bees. I cant figure out why they would be attacted to the water under the cover. There are 2 ponds that are about 30 yards away from the hot tub. The hot tub is brominated and ionized. I am wondering if the bees are being attracted to the chemical composition of the water, since they have to crawl in under the cover to get to it. Anyone seen this before, and any suggestions, short of moving the bees? It could be like the owner said, winter is over, and the bees are enjoying the benefits of the hot tub as well! Happy beekeeping! Scott ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:51:27 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Keith Malone Subject: Bees and Hot tub MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Scott & All, > The hot tub is brominated > and ionized. I am wondering if the bees are being attracted to the chemical > composition of the water, since they have to crawl in under the cover to > get to it. > I would think it might be because the water is ionized, try supplying some negative charged water closer to your apiary. > There are 2 ponds > that are about 30 yards away from the hot tub. These two ponds may have positive charged water. . .. c(((([ Keith Malone Chugiak, Alaska USA starrier@yahoo.com http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ Check out current weather in my area and 5 day forecast; http://www.wx.com/myweather.cfm?ZIP=99654 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:28:27 +0200 Reply-To: Ahlert Schmidt Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ahlert Schmidt Subject: Brominated Water MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hallo Scott, I read your post of the brominated water. I would like to suggest to try some water that is chlorinated. Bees do need chloride to get their neves going and thus might tast the bromide instead of chloride. So there might be a chance if you try to supply salted water. There have been some records that expecially in spring time bees are looking for chloride du to rapid build up of the colony where this element could be in short supply, since plants favour potassium over sodium in ion uptake. Ahlert ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:23:28 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: Bees and Hot tub MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Scott and All, I have not found a way to stop bees from visiting hot tubs once they = start. The problem will get worse when the owner starts using the tub. I finally moved the hives doing the visiting the last time I had the = problem.=20 I then brought in new hives and set a water tray out for the bees to use = and the problem was solved. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Ps. Old habits can be hard to break with honey bees. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:17:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Re: Upper Entrances MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've put some more thought to this upper entrance thread. A few questions come to mind. 1. What happens if you have a supercedure? The way it looks is the queen can get out but not back in. Unless she comes to the upper entrance. But then that puts here above the excluder which would defeat the purpose. 2. What happens to the drones? Since they can't get back in do they just pile into the honey supers or just die. Neither one of these seems like a positve. 3. What would happen if you didn't use the excluder? Since it seems that there would be less chance for the nest to become honey bound wouldn't the queen be more apt to stay low atleast until the first super is full? 4. I would think that the foragers would be likely to store the honey up then going down. I'm making this conclusion from the bees actions through out the winter. 5. Are the bees able to keep the hive clean? I can't see how the bees would get any dead bees out with out m help. Kent Stienburg Ontario Canada ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:17:32 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Liz Subject: Re: Sourwood Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, Try Bateman's Produce 5849 GA. Hwy Franklin, NC 28734 Maybe a beekeeper stopping at the first North Carolina welcome station = might pick up a couple one pound plastic jars and send to you. The = welcome station attendant said the source (Sourwood) was correct and = many jars are sold to Sourwood curious Yankee's such as your self. REAL straw colored Sourwood honey. Price $4.50 per pound when I was = stopped a couple months ago.=20 Sincerely, Bob Harrison =20 Ps. I may upset a few southern beekeepers but much of the Orange = Blossom, Tupelo and Sourwood sold along I 75 is not true to source but = mixed with other flowers. If you want Bateman's phone number Brad email = me direct. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:12:47 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bees and Hot tub MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Scott, Bees do NOT like pure water! They much prefer "dirty" water, particularly the water found in the hoof prints of cattle or horses in a barnyard. Don't gag - bees have been using this water for millenniums, but their honey is still PURE! Bees want the minerals found in "dirty" water. I have always kept a salt block in my apiary and the bees really work on that every time there is the slightest bit of rain, dew, or fog on it. I kept horses for many years, and I noted the bees were always in the water of horses foot prints and working on the 20 pound salt blocks I had for the horses. BEES LIKE DIRTY WATER. Hope I have helped. George Imirie Certified EAS Master Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:35:11 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Upper Entrances MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Kent, Anyone having a colony WITHOUT an upper entrance 365 days of the year are only hurting their bees heath, increasing swarming possibilities, and hurting their honey crop. You are in Ontario which has a good bit of snow, and an upper entrance is very important for your colonies. If snow or ice blocks the bottom board entrance, an upper entrance give the bees a chance to take a cleansing flight on a sudden warm afternoon. More important, an upper entrance allow the warm, DAMP exhaled air from the cluster to go UP and OUT of the colony rather then going up and condensing into water droplets on the cold inner cover and then RAIN down on the cluster. Further, during a nectar flow, foraging bees utilizing the bottom board entrance just cause increased CONGESTION in the lower brood chamber, which is the number one cause of swarming. An upper entrance provides a secondary entrance to the colony so that foragers can go directly in and out of the upper entrance rather than use the bottom board entrance. For 100 years or more, some drilled holes in their supers, or staggered their position on top of each other in order to provide the colony more entrance to supers and more ventilation. Not like that approach is why I started using my IMIRIE SHIM about 40 years ago, now sold by "the hundreds" by Brushy Mountain Bee Farm. Every inner cover should have an upper entrance cut in the front edge of the cover, so bees and damp air can get out of the colony 365 days of the year. Brushy Mountain sells inner covers with an entrance cut in the edge, or you can cut one in your covers yourself. I hope I have helped. George Imirie Certified EAS Master Beekeeper Starting my 70th year of beekeeping in Maryland Author of George's PINK PAGES at www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ or www.beekeeper.org/george_imirie/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:14:28 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robt Mann Subject: Re: Bees and Hot tub In-Reply-To: <200203312034.g2VKM0IL022422@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Geo Imirie stated: >BEES LIKE DIRTY WATER. It's a sidelight, but so do people. In some third-world aid projects, people presented with pure water piped into their village for the first time complain that it 'lacks body'. > Bees want >the minerals found in "dirty" water. Has it been researched which components of the dirty water they want? I doubt it. Can I slap in the good story of Paul Ehrlich's tapeworm? The famous Stanford prof before going on research in the remote tropics a couple decades ago swallowed a couple segments of a selected tapeworm sp. Once in the white man's graveyard he drank & ate like the natives, and experienced no gut problems. Upon returning to Stanford he took a purgative and shat a 13m tapeworm. The inference is that the tapeworm is a symbiont, protecting us from various pathogens; only if the human falls upon hard times does it become a drawback that the worm gets first claim on what you eat. I imagine the bee gut may well contain similar (presumably microbial) endosymbionts. Why bother with non-nutritious pure water when you can get it fortified by organic components that your internal team will process to advantage? Minerals may well be among the paydirt, but I suspect organic materials are also. BTW, while on the search for negatively- or positively-charged water, watch out for striped paint too. And make sure the water has no electrical connection to earth. R ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:04:39 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Forrest Zielke Subject: Re: Bees and Hot tub MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/31/02 3:35:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, GImasterBK@AOL.COM writes: > and I noted the bees were always in the water > of horses > foot prints and working on the 20 pound salt blocks I had for the horses. Hi Scott George is correct. Bees love manure water. They also like water taken off of hemlock bark mulch. Now the trick is to get the bees to go to the pond. In my experiments, this is the method I used. If you have a few hives, place an old piece of comb filled with sugar water above the inner cover. After the bees are used to taking the sugar water, quickly carry the combs loaded with feeding bees to the edge of the pond. Part of the comb can be in the water. It would help if you first put down bark mulch or manure. The first bees will come off the comb and orientate to fix the position. After unloading at the hive they will return. It is like reverse belining. Once you get a good line going, you take away the comb and pour the sugar water on the damp ground at the edge of the water. After time the sugar is depleted and they take on only water. From then on, that is their water source. I use this method to move their water sours anywhere I want. Forrest Zielke Ashland, MA USA bab5doll@aol.com P. S. George, I love your pink pages but my eye site is getting bad and I am having trouble reading red on black. Is there some other way to get to your pink pages. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:03:48 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Denise Hubler Subject: sourwood honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gosh, if you could just wait till the fall. I go to the NC mountains then and that's where I've found sourwood honey for $7.50 a pint with comb. And yes, it is delicious. Denise Hubler Luna Apiaries KY ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:35:44 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Green Subject: Hive strength this spring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I reversed and medicated 60 hives on Saturday and Sunday. Sixty of 60 hives survived and were in excellent strength. Best I have seen in at least 10 years. I medicated last fall with Checkmite. Awesome display of spring strength! Contact me at: Rick Green 8 Hickory Grove Lane Ballston Lake, NY 12019 (518) 384-2539 Gothoney@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:03:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Re: Upper Entrances MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Mr. Imirie, Thanks for your response. I have a great respect for someone of your experience. I agree with you 100% about the upper entrance. I always use one in the winter cut into an inner cover with 2" x 7" screened opening along the top to allow ventilation. On top of which I place a box much the same dimension as a shallow super with screened holes cut in each side to allow the air to escape. I use this set up year round. I also never reduce the front entrances, just put hardware cloth in front to keep out the mice. Proper ventilation in any area with snow and cold is critical for hive heath "as you have said". However, through out the summer last year I observed few bees using the top entrance (approx 2.5" long) cut into my inner cover compared to the bottom entrance. The difference in this thread is the complete CLOSING of the bottom entrance and placing a queen excluder ontop of the nest, then the entrance, then the supers. It is the placement of the excluder and the blocking of the bottom entrance that concern me. This is what my questions are trying to address :) Respectfully Kent Stienburg Ontario Canada ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:06:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Butcher Subject: Re: Bees and Hot tub MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Scott, about them hot tubs. If you rub some vinegar around the edge of the water and the edge of the tarp where the bees enter and use the water. I know a beekeeper that his wife had horses and the bees would go to the drinking fountains for them and all they did was use the vinegar.It worked for them. If you can setup a bath tub with tap water in it and something floating in it so the bees will have something to land on. Have a Blessed Day Bob Butcher Tucson Az.