From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 07:44:10 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-92.9 required=2.4 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Delivered-To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFC0D48FBA for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SCP3sa010167 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:38 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0205E" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Message-ID: Content-Length: 48935 Lines: 1154 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:58:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carolyn Ehle Subject: Re: CARNIOLANS MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit For several years I have produced queens here from queens of several races, now all mixed thru several generations. I keep records of the queen lines. The original queens were Buckfasts, several strains of Italians, several Russian sources (Carniolan), and feral bees. I work bees with no protective gear, so temperament is critical. Most of the occasional mean queens I've had have been Italian, not Buckfast, daughters, tho the drones could have been any of the above. Guess the bees didn't read about our stereotypes....again! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 07:22:43 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Barrett Subject: FGMO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Can anybody give me answers to the following questions. 1. What is the diameter of the spiracles in the honeybee? 2. What is the diameter of the spiracles (or whatever breathing mechanism used) in the varroa mite? I am pulling together information on FGMO and answers to the above questions would be very helpful. Thanks as always for any assistance. Sincerely Tom Barrett Dublin Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:56:09 -0400 Reply-To: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: wade Organization: Honey Hill farm Subject: Re: Carnies & Buckies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Coleene Davidson wrote: > I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT BUCKFAST BEES GET NASTY IF > THE QUEEN IS SUPERCEDED....HAS ANYONE FOUND THIS TO APPLY TO > CARNIOLANS? Hi We have used both Carniolan and Buckfast bees here with no agressive hives observed after supercedure. Wade -- Web Site: http://www.honeyhillfarm.com E-mail: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 10:54:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: huestis' Subject: Re: [Norlandbeekeepers] CARNIOLANS Comments: To: Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Used buckies, italians, and carnies at one time or another. Some = colonies get more aggressive as they grow in population. Sometimes they = are cross due to the time of year and season and between flows. Are you = working with smoke? Be honest too? I f the colonies are extremely = aggressive when using smoke then requeen. Do the bees pour out by the = 100's-1000's and start stinging before you get there? Or is it less than = 30 or so after opening? Is there the scent of stings on gloves or = clothing that would trigger them? Hmmmm.... helmet beating means they = are warning you. Do you have any critter signs around 2 or 4 legged? As far as breeding usually using commerial bees on the first cross they = can get a bit aggressive, but after open mating them for a season or = two, one will dominate and they mellow right out to a happy medium. At = least for me they have. Clay ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 13:08:06 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Queen still in her cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Who knows the answer to this? Any beekeeper who introduces lots of queens will sometimes see this: you introduce a queen by leaving the candy uncovered -- with or without a nail hole thru the candy -- and return a week or two afterwards. You find the candy all gone, the hole wide open, but the queen still in the cage, running around and around. Sometimes another bee, or bees, will be in there too. Obviously she is free to go, but why is she in the cage? Has she left and returned? Is it only by chance that we see her there on a brief visit back to her old home? Or is she just to stupid to leave? allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:23:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Queen still in her cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Allen and All, I will add my opinion.=20 > the queen still in the cage, running around and around. (with candy = gone)=20 I find this situation every once in a while but not a common occurance. >=20 > Obviously she is free to go, but why is she in the cage? > Has she left and returned? My opinion is she has not left. The bees are feeding and caring for her = but only an opinion. I base my opnion on the way she acts when I release = her as if to say. Sure glad to be out of the cage. I have seen many = queens go right to egg laying and I have NEVER seen a queen balled which = was found still in the cage with candy gone and workers coming and = going.=20 =20 > Is it only by chance that we see her there on a brief visit back to = her old > home? I think we are putting human charactoristics on an insect here.=20 > Or is she just to stupid to leave? I would not call finding the queen in a cage with the candy gone unusual = or rare if we are checking within 10 days. I believe most queens would = come out of the cage in time but I always am back checking the cage in = 5-6 days at the longest so really do not know about finding her after a = longer period.=20 I would not say stupid but would say something happened which caused the = queen to be leary of passing through the hole. Queen afraid to pass = through the opening is the problem as I NEVER see the queen coming and = going but only as Allen said "queen going around in circles and failing = to exit through the hole". Perhaps a worker tried to ball the queen in the passage and she has = become leary of passing through the hole because of the experience? I have tried for the sake of experimentation to push the reluctant = queen through the hole in the cage but to no avail. I always have to = remove the screen to release her. By taking a straw and trying to herd her through the hole she seems to = avoid the hole at all costs. I admit I have pondered the same scenario = as Allen. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 18:21:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Coleene Davidson Subject: Re: CARNIOLANS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > I would requeen the hive with gentler stock. > > > > > > > Try requeening your aggressive colonies with queens produced from your > > gentle colonies. How many colonies do you have Coleene and are there any > > colonies owned by others near by? > > . .. > > Hi all, > Requeening was my first thought, however, this hive is HUGE. There is no > way to find the queen with the current population. I did split the hive > (pulled 3 frames of capped brood and bees) to open up some room in the > parent hive. My new queen, another Carnie arrives tomorrow from California. > I will install tomorrow afternoon. > > The colony has been agressive since the first time I opened it several weeks > ago. It was very populated at that time. On occasion, a colony can be > cross so I close it up and come back another time. This wasn't the case > here so, since the population was so large I added 3 medium supers of drawn > comb and closed them up again. If I smoke them heavy they remain moderately > under control but resume their bombarding as soon as the smoke begins to > deminish. Perhaps it is just the large population and more bees than I am > used to working with at this time of year. They do not appear to be > agressive wile just watching the hive, even when in close, only when into > the midst of the group. > > I guess it is just wait and see!!! > > Thanks all for your help. > > Coleene > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:11:10 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: Queen still in her cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen: If this were some sort of trick question, my first guess as to an answer would be that for some reason the queen cage was left in the colony with the open end facing to the ground. She would never get out, as insects in general, and bees especially, never go down, only up!! When hiving package bees in warm weather, it is perfectly acceptable to shake most of the bees into the hive, shake the queen into the center of the cluster, replace frames and cover up as quickly as possible. Works just fine! Eunice Subject: Queen still in her cage > Who knows the answer to this? > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 06:27:06 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Queen still in her cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > You find the candy all gone, the hole wide open, but the queen still in the cage, > running around and around. Sometimes another bee, or bees, will be in > there too. It happened to us this year and what we found was that the staple, which holds the gauze on, had one of its legs through the hole. Normally the staple legs go either side of the hole. Thus the queen could not get out. Just took the gauze off and let the queen out. She took and has performed satisfactorily. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 00:29:32 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dennis M Murrell Subject: Small Cell Colony Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Everyone, Last fall I had lots of visible mites, small clusters and some crawlers. The bees were actively removing infected brood and damaging the mites themselves. I had seen colonies on large cell comb collapse long before this stage. Any survivors would have been on just a couple of frames and would have been unable to generate enough heat to expand colony size this spring. Lost about 40% of my small cell colonies throughout the winter. Most were lost to mite damage with about 10% lost to queen failure late in the spring. Lost all of my Russian hives including the breeder. Lost 50%of my SMR hives with open mated Harbo queens. Most of the surviving hives came through the winter with 5 to 6 frames of bees and a small patch of brood by March. Late winter has been very cold with a cold, not so nice spring. It's been a cycle with three days of spring then two to four days of cold winter since February until mid May. Since then the hives have expanded rapidly. The best (Harbo) now fill two deep supers and will need to be split! The average are a box and a half of bees and brood. The worst are about 6 frames bees with some brood. I have not seen a single varroa mite on a bee or on drone brood this spring. They are still in the hives as the natural mite fall is about 2 mites/week/hive. Yes, that's per week per hive! Last fall some of these hives were dropping hundreds of mites/day. The surviving bees are healthy with no DWV damaged bees, are raising lots of drones and are expanding much faster than I have experienced before especially considering the very cold, nasty spring weather we have had. Best Wishes Dennis Murrell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:06:13 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Edward D Heinlein Subject: Re: CARNIOLANS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 29 May 2002 18:21:37 -0400 Coleene Davidson writes: > > Requeening was my first thought, however, this hive is HUGE. > There is no > > way to find the queen with the current population. Coleene, I had a similar problem this past weekend, huge hive and the need to find her majesty. After spending too much time looking over frame after frame, I remembered a method I read about in an old Bee Culture. The author (sorry I don't remember your name) set each full body aside, off the bottom board. He then set an empty body on the bottom board and covered it with a queen excluder and then another empty body on top of the excluder. He then proceeded to brush all the bees off each frame, one at a time, into the empty top body. When a frame was clean of bees, he would slide the top body and excluder aside and slip it into the empty bottom body. The workers "tended" to work their way DOWN through the excluder to get back to the frames. The drones and yes, the queen remains on the excluder. It was my savior. The queen just happened to be in the first body I used this technique on, and it didn't even take 10 minutes! Normally I don't have to resort to such measures, but I couldn't find the old gal by just looking over all those workers. If you give it a try, I hope you experience similar success! Ed Heinlein Helena, MT ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 06:43:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Pocket Bible leads police to teen who crushed beehives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Garry Libby [mailto:LibBEE@email.msn.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 10:54 PM > To: LibBEE@email.msn.com > Subject: FW: Pocket Bible leads police to teen who crushed beehives > > > > > Subject: Pocket Bible leads police to teen who crushed beehives Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 12:02 -0400 ____________________________________________________________ The following story appeared in The Globe Online: Headline: Pocket Bible leads police to teen who crushed beehives Date: 5/29/2002 02:16 Byline: " NORTHEAST HARBOR, Maine (AP) A pocket Bible was the clue that helped police identify a teen-age suspect in the destruction of 80 beehives in a blueberry field. " ____________________________________________________________ To read the entire story, click on the link below or cut and paste it into a Web browser: (Warning: the url may wrap to two lines) http://www.boston.com/dailynews/149/region/Pocket_Bible_leads_police_to_t:.s html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:58:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Les Roberts Subject: Re: Odd Bee Statistics In-Reply-To: <200205110401.g4B3jFXG022816@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I just found the source for that factoid. The PBS Nova program (it's run twice that I know of) has details and a transcript on the Internet. Here's the fact page: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bees/buzz.html Among the facts: The average American consumes a little over one pound of honey a year. In the course of her lifetime, a worker bee will produce 1/12th of a teaspoon of honey. To make one pound of honey, workers in a hive fly 55,000 miles and tap two million flowers. They quote their source thus: Maureen Dolan, NOVA Online's intern, worked with a bee researcher from the University of Massachusetts Boston in the summer of 1998. At 12:00 AM 5/11/02 -0400, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:25:30 +0200 >From: Vanessa de Behr >Subject: Re: Odd Bee Statistics > > Curtis asked some back-up for the assertion that in their lifetime a >worker will produce about 1/12 of a teaspoon of honey, got some piece of an >answer from Jerry, and both got coldly drenched by George and Allen. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 07:34:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lackey, Raymond" Subject: Queen still in her cage MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Like the staple passing through the hole, I have found other obstructions. The most common has been splinters of wood around the hole from the bit breaking through the last little way. I have also seen rough holes which seem to hold the queen back while workers come and go. I guess the real experiment would be to collect the queens from these cages, inspect and measure the hole, measure the queen's thorax in case we have the occasional large queen, and move them to a different cage that has had a queen exit from before and see if she has hole-a-phobia or if it is the hole. I have only had this in the wooden cages, never the plastic with a molded hole but then I've had fewer of them. Ray Lackey web page: http://www.tianca.com/tianca2.html email home: lackeyray@tianca.com email office: raymond.lackey@baesystems.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:58:55 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Queen still in her cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Allen & all > Is it only by chance that we see her there on a brief visit back to her old > home? I have watched a queen re-enter a butler cage that had newspaper as a release agent. I removed the remaining paper and allowed the queen to walk on to the top bars. She seemed slow and reluctant to re-emerge. It was a 5 frame nuc not a full size colony. I did not come to any particular conlusions at the time (about 17 years ago), but in writing this I wondered if she was trying to find a darker place because I had just taken the lid off and flooded the area with light. I am unsure about this surmise as I would think it was darker among the seams of bees. FWIW Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 06:57:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Small Cell Colony Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the report, Dennis. We're all interested in following the results of the various trials going on. I realise that there are many small special interest lists these days for various topics, but most of us don't have time to read them all and we appreciate when anyone posts a synopsis to BEE-L. A lot of the special interest groups have a high level of background chatter and a there is lot of reading to do before any real information is found, but they are interesting communities and some do have the time to spend there. I tend to spend some time reading them in the winter, but in the summer, time is short and I stick to BEE-L. From those who do spend the time to read these other lists, we would love to get a summary monthly or so. In reading through your note, I was wondering a number of things and perhaps you could expand a bit? > I had seen colonies on large cell comb collapse long before this stage.... > Lost about 40% of my small cell colonies throughout the winter. Are you running any or are all your hives on small cell? How small? How many hives went into winter? > I have not seen a single varroa mite on a bee or on drone brood this spring. Are you using any mite treatments? > considering the very cold, nasty spring weather we have had. Where do you live? Thanks allen http://www.internode.net/honeybee/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 07:06:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Queen still in her cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all that responded, but I am no closer to an answer. > If this were some sort of trick question, my first guess as to an answer > would be that for some reason the queen cage was left in the colony with the > open end facing to the ground. She would never get out, as insects in > general, and bees especially, never go down, only up!! Well, that is true, but if it were universally true, queens would never emerge from their cells. Over the years, we have mounted the cages (many varieties) in every conceivable position, and had the same luck with the queens coming out -- or not. > When hiving package bees in warm weather, it is perfectly acceptable to > shake most of the bees into the hive, shake the queen into the center of the > cluster, replace frames and cover up as quickly as possible. Works just > fine! Yup, but I'm not talking about packages here, I am referring to re-queening or queens introduced to splits. Out of almost every batch (hundreds of queens), we always find a queen or two that is just running around in her cage with the entrance hole (pencil size) wide open and with no obstructions. (Even Auzzie queens have been known to do that here in Alberta). You are right about the queens liking to go up, though. We don't use the candy for release, we use marshmallow, since marshmallow is easy to find and is not as likely to get rock hard the way queen candy gets in this dry country. When putting in the marshmallow, if the cage is held hole up, queens come out the hole in a jiffy. For more on our adventures with queens and more, visit my site (below). allen http://www.internode.net/honeybee/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:12:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Odd Bee Statistics In-Reply-To: <200205301055.g4UAedXC027062@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:58 PM 5/29/02 -0500, you wrote: Sorry, that's not the source, just a repeat of the off-told assertation. I've seen these estimates for 30+ years, so you're going to have to dig deeper. >I just found the source for that factoid. The PBS Nova program (it's run >twice that I know of) has details and a transcript on the Internet. Here's >the fact page: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bees/buzz.html >They quote their source thus: Maureen Dolan, NOVA Online's intern, worked >with a bee researcher from the University of Massachusetts Boston in the >summer of 1998. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:53:14 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Queen still in her cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Allen & all > We don't use the > candy for release, we use marshmallow, I am glad to find another convert to marshmallow... I started using it about six years ago, and it is a marvelous material for the job. Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:01:46 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Queen still in her cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > > > > Yup, but I'm not talking about packages here, I am referring to re-queening > or queens introduced to splits. Out of almost every batch (hundreds of > queens), we always find a queen or two that is just running around in her > cage with the entrance hole (pencil size) wide open and with no > obstructions. (Even Auzzie queens have been known to do that here in > Alberta). > Hi Allen and All, I have had the same problem from time to time. I think it is closer to a pheromone problem than anything else. The queens are not balled when let out.You will notice that the queens do not go all over her when she is free for the first time. Bee genetics is complex. So is queen pheromones. It is not just one , but a complex of 5 or more. Mark Winston sent me down his work on queen pheromones two years ago , when we were having trouble with acceptance of Russian queens. ( white line) There is no base line of the queen pheromone. Different races have different complex's. Within the races there are other variables. A good queen ( plenty of Queen pheromones ) will have workers rubbing on her all the time. Plenty of attention by the workers. To prove this out would take a considerable amount of work. Plenty of queens that fit your description would have to be evaluated. For me, I will live with it. I get 1 or 2 out of 100. Maybe. Notice that later season queens have a lessor problem. It can be mating as well. I enjoy beekeeping because you can go as deep as you want and no one has all the answers. It is beyond the human mind. The Best Roy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:51:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Queen still in her cage Marshmallows are what I use also. As I have only a 100 hives, my experience is limited, but I would consider useing 2 of the small marshmallows if they will fit. Large and agressive hive can go through a single one quickly, and it seems to me I have better success using two. Regards Tim ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:49:01 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Queen still in her cage Not so! I use the Butler cage for introduction and always place it between combs (ideally containing brood) with the entrance at the bottom and covered with a single layer of newspaper held with a rubber band. In twenty one years I have never had this problem. Most queens are released within two hours. Peter Edwards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eunice Wonnacott" > If this were some sort of trick question, my first guess as to an answer > would be that for some reason the queen cage was left in the colony with the > open end facing to the ground. She would never get out, as insects in > general, and bees especially, never go down, only up!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 19:35:54 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: J J Harrier Subject: Re: Queen still in her cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use a hair roller, with one end bunged permanently with a bit of twig and the other only by a couple of layers of newspaper. I have a few ready-made newspaper caps which fit neatly over the end of the roller, which I much prefer to trying to fit a rubber band without snagging one of HM's feet sticking through a hole. The whole ensemble is held in place in the hive by a few inches of thin baling wire threaded through the permanently blocked end. There is thus no width restriction at all at the exit once all the paper has been chewed away. I've never worried about the angle of dangle of the cage, and it has always worked perfectly. J. J. Harrier ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I think, therefore I bee ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Perhaps a worker tried to ball the queen in the passage and she has = > become leary of passing through the hole because of the experience? > > I have tried for the sake of experimentation to push the reluctant = > queen through the hole in the cage but to no avail. I always have to = > remove the screen to release her. > By taking a straw and trying to herd her through the hole she seems to = > avoid the hole at all costs. I admit I have pondered the same scenario = > as Allen. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 22:08:59 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Queen still in her cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > would consider useing 2 of the small marshmallows if they will fit. You're not the only person to tell me that, but I can't even get one to fit into the hole without poking out both inside and outside the cage. What's the trick? Are some of the mini marshmallows smaller? allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:04:05 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mats Andersson Subject: Double screen divider thingie... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello everybody. I have to ask you about a device i read about in Bonney's "Hive management". I can't remember the name of it, but you might know what i mean. I haven't seen it here in Sweden. It's a double screen bottom that's placed between the boxes of a hive to sort of emulate a swarm by dividing the colony and stop any swarming tendencies. The theory being that the queen and the foragers stay below the screen and young bees and brood are on top of it, with a separate entrance in a different direction. What i'd like to know is this: 1. Does it work in practice? 2. Is it sufficient to have the screen in for a week and then the swarming tendencies will be gone for the season? 3. Isn't there a risk that the bees above the screen feel queenless and start making queen cells? 4. Any other tips on how to use it successfully? /Mats Andersson, Stockholm Sweden ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 07:28:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Finding the queen (was CARNIOLANS) In-Reply-To: <200205310400.g4V3nVWw011702@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" RE: finding the queen by straining the bees thru and excluder I use this method a lot when re-queening. In fact, I have a dedicated super for it. It works better if the super is brand new. The bees tend to cling to to the sides of an old one, as it may have bits of comb or propolis on the inside. I nailed the excluder to the bottom of the empty super and put a wood rim on the protect the excluder and help hold it in place. I shake the bees onto the excluder and use smoke and a bee brush to keep them moving thru the excluder. Some hives go more easily than others, some seem to want to move up rather than down. Occasionally one finds rwo and even three queens this way. -- Peter Borst ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:25:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Double screen divider thingie... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It's called a Senlgrove Board, named after L.E. Snelgrove. Covered extensively in the archives, which can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l Hits on Snelgrove are numerous (over 50). Particularly recommended are: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9708D&L=bee-l&P=R1900 with a follow up a year later: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9812D&L=bee-l&P=R703 I am currently experimenting combining Snelgrove swarm control with Killion methods for comb honey production. So far (about 3 days into the experiments) I'm happy with how things seem to be going, but it's definitely too soon to tell. Aaron Morris - thinking archives, search 'em early, search 'em often! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:09:26 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: huestis' Subject: Re: Double screen divider thingie... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mats, > 1. Does it work in practice? Yes. Though labor intensive if used like Snelgrove designed it. > 2. Is it sufficient to have the screen in for a week and then the swarming > tendencies will be gone for the season? No. It actually is used to make a two queen colony one above and below the screen by spliting the colony and allowing the bees to make a queen above. Then using the doors on the devise to milk the bees from the top down to the lower. > 3. Isn't there a risk that the bees above the screen feel queenless and > start making queen cells? Yes. Thats what you want. Thus the colony has completed the reproduction cycle but they are still all in one hive then drawn off later ro the lower. > 4. Any other tips on how to use it successfully? Yes. Get the book called Swarming: Its control and prevention by Snelgrove. This method is thouroughly covered there. Also check the archives of Bee-l using snelgrove board as Mr. A. Morris has written a few things on the subject if I remember correctly. Clay ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:19:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Queen still in her cage On Thu, 30 May 2002 22:08:59 -0600, Allen Dick wrote: >> would consider useing 2 of the small marshmallows if they will fit. > >You're not the only person to tell me that, but I can't even get one to fit >into the hole without poking out both inside and outside the cage. What's >the trick? Are some of the mini marshmallows smaller? > >allen Allen, those plastic queen cages (sold by Mann Lake and I assume other places) are very inexpensive and very easy to use, and re-use. They have a long, tube shaped entrance where two small marshmallows fit. I have read, though, that in difficult hives the bees can chew at the new queen's legs through the openings, which are larger that the wire on most wooden queen cages, thus causing superceedure after acceptance because she's injured. Whether or not this is the case I'm not sure. The plasitic cages are also said to be phermone treated to help with acceptence, but with what, and if it helps, I've no idea. Very best Tim Vaughan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:00:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Queen still in her cage In-Reply-To: <200205311330.g4VDJaXA019670@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed A local beekeeper I've talked to says he has good success directly releasing and using B-Healthy in sugar sirup sprayed on the queen (and possibly the bees too?, I didn't catch the full details) I think it's supposed to mask the queens smell or make her smell like a worker. I have not tried it yet myself so I can't comment. Anyone else heard of this or tried it? -Tim ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:03:58 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Queen still in her cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Allen & all UK small sized marshmallows are cylindrical, 13 mm diameter and 13 mm long. I devised a specially shaped hole just to suit them... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/queenbanking.html The tool that I used to generate the stepped profile hole is a 'Bradrad' multi diameter drill bit http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/bradrad.html Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:20:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Denise Hubler Subject: queen still in her cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently re-queened 6 hives using vanilla scented sugar syrup sprayed on the queen cage and the top bar bees. All queens were accepted. Denise ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:03:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Coleene Davidson Subject: Re: queen still in her cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hope I have as much luck. I split a hive late Monday, ordered a queen on Tuesday to be delivered Wednesday. She was held up in Kentucky and wasn't delivered until today. I sprayed everyone with sugar syrup that had a bit of Wintergreen oil in it left over from spring feeding. Some of the bees started fanning and didn't seem overly agressive. I am keeping my fingers crossed. I left most of the sugar plug in the cage. I will check in a couple of days to see whats what. Coleene ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 15:17:47 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dennis M Murrell Subject: Small Cell Colony Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Allen and Everyone, I sure do like the digest option on the mailing lists, especially during the summer. While working bees commercially sometimes a yard would fail to get treated and varroa levels would climb and decimate the bees. All the bees I worked commercially were on standard comb. Two seasons ago I left commercial beekeeping but decided to play with a dozen hives without chemical treatments. I obtained a variety of stock including the Russians and lately the SMR bees. Used mesh bottom boards and monitored the mites. Last year I put everything on small cell foundation and experimented with some powdered sugar dusting. So this is the third season and I finally like what I see with the small cell. The results have been pretty much as described by the Lusby's. I initially thought that the most difficult part of the process would be to find a bee that would be suitable on the small cell foundation. Maybe it would be uniquely adapted to the Southwestern United States. However, the Russians bees readily drew out the foundation but some perished from tracheal mites or were requeened because of their temperament. The SMR Harbo from Weavers in Texas seems to do well on the smaller comb as did my own SMR open mated bees. A small test to be sure but sharing what I have from Casper, Wyoming, USA. Will keep everyone posted as the season progresses. Best Wishes Dennis ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 22:16:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rodney Farrar Subject: Re: Finding the queen (was CARNIOLANS) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any more details on How you do this? Do you shake the bees off down in the box and use smoke to make them go through the excluder? How do you keep the in the super box without flying out? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 22:38:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: huestis' Subject: Re: Double screen divider thingie... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Aaron, > I am currently experimenting combining Snelgrove swarm control with Killion > methods for comb honey production. So far (about 3 days into the > experiments) I'm happy with how things seem to be going, but it's definitely > too soon to tell. Could you explain briefly how you are doing this as I my try it. I am familiar with both methods. Clay