From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 07:39:17 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-92.1 required=2.4 tests=AWL,NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP, SPF_HELO_PASS,URIBL_WS_SURBL,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Delivered-To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE03249073 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SCLoXR010061 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:39 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0211E" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Message-ID: Content-Length: 46580 Lines: 1056 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 22:52:35 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Floyd L. Watkins" Subject: Beekeepers in the Bahamas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to contact and then perhaps visit with a beekeeper in Freeport and/or Nassau in January 2003. Please respond off line to: beewaspflw@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 19:04:04 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Illegal Antibiotics Comments: cc: DeeALusby1@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi All Just a simple question: If chloramphenicol was discovered in loads of imported honey leading to bans in several countries for illegal antibiotic usage, i.e. UK, Canada, and USA as tolerances are zero, then one would think that this sets a precedent for other treatments as being illegal also with same circumstances of usage. So queation is then who is looking for streptomycin other then British regulatory authorities? Does anyone know say, if, Argentina uses or has used in recent years streptomycin? Is streptomycin being looked for actively in honey from overseas? Sincerely, Dee A. Lusby __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:19:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Mite dusting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Bob: >I have already had a couple calls asking about using garlic and sugar for mites. Ever heard of the method? This is part of a letter from the Letters to the Editor section of the June 2002 issue of American Bee Journal. The treatment is as follows: 1. I start with 4 lbs. of powdered sugar 2. I stir in 8 oz. of *pure* garlic powder 3. I dust the brood and brood frames with this mixture. 4. Be sure to also dust between frames. 5. Be sure to also dust bees. 6. I treat in early spring first. 7. Then, after the honey is taken off. 8. I also perform a third treatment in early winter. 9. I do not have any smell or flavor of garlic in my honey. 10. Garlic will not harm bees. In his letter, Mr. Adams mentions having kept bees since 1942. He says he uses nothing else for varroa control and his method works successfully. He provided his phone number and address in the letter, so I suppose it could be given out if anyone is interested. Email me. >Comments? This comes from the chapter on Biotechnical Controls in the book-- Mites of the Honey Bee: “An area of study that apparently has not been developed in control of varroa has been non-insecticidal dusts. Such dusts have been used on some other arthropods with some reasonable success, but as far as I can determine they have not been used to any great degree to control varroa. Since many small arthropods are very susceptible to cuticle abrasion and desiccation, dusts and abrasives dusts might be effectively used. This treatment could be especially effective along with a screened bottom board.” Previous posts have been made from beekeepers who use plastic squeeze bottles to dust their bees for mites. Remember the vibrating hopper from a couple of weeks ago that Paul Harvey talked about on his radio broadcast? Hasn’t this garlic thing been mentioned previously here on Bee-L? Probably the powdered sugar alone will do the trick. Regards, Dick Allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:20:18 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: Mite dusting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some years ago I worked on Ramps (in is a wild onion/garlic found in the Smoky Mountains) as a mite control. History is important as it is a strong tart. If chicken eat the leaves early in the spring the meat and eggs and filled with a strong tart that makes it taste like it has soured. Even though nothing is wrong. Cows that eat it the meat and milk is with the same bad tasting tart/bitterness. Morristown, Tennessee has a Ramp Festival yearly in May. "The Tribal Generations book series reflects the use of the Ramps by the American Indians in the spring to relieve the body of any unwanted body mites, fleas, and as a repellent for biting bugs. The important use was by a Squall that found her husband visiting a very young beautiful female. Ramps in your food will not be detected by the family that eats them, but others will get the odor of a skunk from you. Needless the young female was repelled and sent the warrior back for the monogamous family life." The trails worked but the side effects are not much of a benefit to the honey. This was mentioned to some of our federal researchers in 1995 but nothing every developed. Research money wasn't available? Michael Housel Orlandobee ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:17:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Al Lipscomb Subject: Re: Small Hive Beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > -----Original Message----- > From: Karen Oland [mailto:koland@STAFFINGTECH.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 5:54 PM > To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu > Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Small Hive Beetle > [cut] > Had he treated when the beetle was first identified in his TN > hives, the > beetles would not (in all likelihood) be in the western end > of TN and KY > (where it is already causing losses). Better, had he not > moved infected > hives from GA (in violation of state law, but with no real punishment > defined), the entire state might still be clear. Or at > least, have a few > more years before the beetle spread naturally. > SHB can move in many ways, and treatment is just about useless. While I have no problem with the guess that this one individual may have moved some beetles into the state the movement of produce (melons etc) can bring with it the SHB. There are just too many vectors to contain this pest. I live in Pinellas county in Florida. That is the small peninsula about half way down Florida's West coast. There are no migratory bee keepers in this county. We are surrounded on three sides by water and I am down near the tip so there is a long way between me any any movement of bees by truck. Within a few months of the SHB outbreak on the East Coast, I had them. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:14:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Patterns in microbial border crossing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > It is not in the best interest for the SHB's to wipe out its host, either, a >suicidal gesture, indeed, given that they do coexist in Africa whence >they came. What they want is equilibrium, not a total wipeout. I think you give the small hive beetle human charactoristics. The SHB is simply looking for a place (oportunity) to lay the thousands (if not tens of thousands of eggs ). If not for egg laying the SHb would be of little concern. > The initial defenselessness against foreign mites or SHB among EHB > colonies appears to be the direct result from their never having been > exposed to both; hence, they hadn't got a clue as to what to do. True. The situation is always worse at the first or has been in past beekeeping introductions. However, > given time, the bees will probably come up with a strategy to battle > against both: they got to learn to live with otherwise they will perish. > Life is resilient and adaptable. You seem to forget the *slimming* of the honey house. A very big issue with beekeepers. I usually keep 250 supers in the honey house at a time. Questions about small hive beetle which I need answers for: 1. temperature for germination of eggs and temp at which eggs will not germinate? 2. time between laying and hatching of eggs? 3. temperature both hot and cold which kill eggs? 4. length of time at above temperature? 5.. temperature both hot and cold which will kill larva? 6. length of time at above temp. to kill larva? I have got plenty of small hive beetle questions but will try these first. I have not been able to find precise answers for these basic SHb research questions. Thanks in advance! Bob ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:23:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: No SHB in the dessert! (Was: Patterns in microbial border crossin g ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Bob asked a number of "temperature related" questions tipping his hand that he's planning to freeze the SHB out of existence. I don't have the answers to Bob's questions, but can pass on that perhaps humidity (or lack thereof) may be a more promising strategy. Again, I cannot supply the source or quote a reference (perhaps I'm reading too much and/or attending too many conferences), but I recall reports that the shb life cycle can be broken by extremely dry conditions. The specific anecdote I recall was that a dehumidifier in the honey room kept shb eggs from hatching. Helps keep the moisture content down in your honey too! Aaron Morris - thinking how dry I am! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:20:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Illegal Antibiotics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dee wrote: > Does anyone know say, if, Argentina uses or has used in > recent years streptomycin? I do not know what drugs the Argentine's use. I doubt a beekeeper would choose streptomycin to use in a beehive because of cost. I have used streptomycin to fight a severe case of fire blight in the orchard but expensive. Streptomycin would be in the same class as finding terramycin in honey. Does not belong but unless you were allergic to streptomycin little cause for concern in PPB. What are foreign beekeepers trying to cure with streptomycin? Is streptomycin being looked for > actively in honey from overseas? I read they were looking in the U.K. for honey tainted with streptomycin. Chloramphenicol was found by those policing the Chinese antidumping. Unlike streptomycin and terramycin , Chloramphenicol is a rather nasty antibiotic. Chloramphenicol is available by prescription in the U.S. and Doctors do use Chloramphenical as a last hope in certain cases but the antibiotic can cause a potentially life threatening side effect called idiosyncratic aplastia anemia. I have tried to find out what the Chinese were using Chloramphenicol for but to no avail. A noted researcher did tell me the USDA *thinks* the application method was spraying Chloramphenicol on the bees themselves. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:36:48 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: No SHB in the dessert! (Was: Patterns in microbial border crossin g ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Bob asked a number of "temperature related" questions tipping his hand that he's planning to freeze the SHB out of existence. The method works well with all stages of the wax moth. Dropping the temp in the honey house to freezing can be done without a huge amount of difficulty. I had to add a huge amount of spray foam this year so I could get the humdity down in short order. Had problems with the honey getting so dry the honey did not want to spin easily from the comb. > I don't have the answers to Bob's questions, but can pass on that >perhaps humidity (or lack thereof) may be a more promising strategy. >Again, I cannot supply the source or quote a reference (perhaps I'm >reading too much and/or attending too many conferences), but I recall >reports that the shb life cycle can be broken by extremely dry >conditions. I posted in a earlier post both about humidity and SHb eggs and that the SHb had not caused a huge amount of trouble when the dry conditions were in Florida and Georgia. When the rains returned so did the small hive beetle. < The specific anecdote I recall was that a dehumidifier in the honey room kept shb eggs from hatching. Helps but did not keep the eggs from hatching I have been told. I do not believe I will get the answers to my questions because research has not yet been done. I thought I would ask before doing the research myself. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:43:57 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Illegal Antibiotics Comments: cc: deealusby1@aol.com In-Reply-To: <001301c2981f$6b961040$7dac58d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bob Harrison wrote: I read they were looking in the U.K. for honey tainted with streptomycin. Chloramphenicol was found by those policing the Chinese antidumping. Unlike streptomycin and terramycin , Chloramphenicol is a rather nasty antibiotic. Reply: I read "The British regulatory authorities discovered the illegal antibiotics streptomycin and cholormphenicol in loads of imported honey, and quickly banned the importation of all honey from China." By Mark Winston no less in Nov 02 ABJ. Bob further wrote: I have tried to find out what the Chinese were using Chloramphenicol for but to no avail. Reply: Can you also find out why and what the Chinese were using streptomycin for? Also, can you find out why no one else looking for it? Regards, Dee A. Lusby __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:50:14 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Illegal Antibiotics Comments: cc: deealusby1@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bob and all: Want to let you know I quoted wrong. It was in Bee Culture Nov 02 and not ABJ on the Streptomycin in Chinese honey by Mark Winston. Sincerely, Dee A. Lusby __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:44:56 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: No SHB in the dessert (or is it desert) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron wrote > The specific anecdote I recall was that a > dehumidifier in the honey room kept shb eggs from hatching. Helps keep the > moisture content down in your honey too! Having now been inflicted with the SHB, I have been doing a lot of reading on the SHB. One reference for the humidity is www.barc.usda.gov/psi/brl/bd-shb.htm To quote part "Our research has shown that reducing relative humidity below 50% where honey is stored will inhibit SHB eggs from hatching and thus reduce or eliminate larval damage in honey." As to hives in dry areas, if the humidity in the hive is kept up then the eggs can hatch, larvae can develop. The only question would be the pupation in the ground. If we can get our money for research out of Government, then we may be able to answer some of these questions. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:00:01 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Illegal Antibiotics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob, Dee & all > I read they were looking in the U.K. for honey tainted with streptomycin. Not specifically true... UK looks for 'anything' that should not be there. Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 07:45:10 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Illegal Antibiotics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave wrote: > Not specifically true... UK looks for 'anything' that should not be there. Could you tell us the way the U.K. tests (method) and if only random drum testing ? Random testing is only a percentage game. None of our food (or water ) supplies get the kind of testing I would like to see. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 07:36:36 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: No SHB in the dessert (or is it desert) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > To quote part "Our research has shown that reducing relative humidity >below 50% where honey is stored will inhibit SHB eggs from hatching >and thus reduce or eliminate larval damage in honey." Keeping below the 50% relative humidity was the problem in our experiment. In areas of high humidity it is very difficult to maintain below 50% humidity unless the processing area is built for maintaining low humidity. *If* the honey is not processed fast the moisture level will keep getting lower until you have some very low moisture honey (problem I had). > If we can get our money for research out of Government, then we may be able to answer some of these questions. I am going to ask researchers at our national meetings. Although very little is in print about the SHB some research has been done. The research Trevor quotes comes from our Beltsville lab so maybe Jeff has a few answers. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 08:53:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Humdinger Subject: Re: Patterns in microbial border crossing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Folks, My original thought in the thread was that by treating bees, for whatever diseases they suffer from, we are doing, in a way, “a Selective Breeding” of an isolated EHB species that cannot and will not survive on their own— without human intervention. Treating bees, I understand, is necessary for those commercial beekeepers since they need a solution here and right now. This practice appears to be myopic, however. By religiously treating bees with expensive chemicals that often lose its efficacy incrementally, we are trying desperately to delay the eventuality of the contact forever while weakening the bees even further. What a laudable effort and stupidity! How can we stop the pathogens that are here to stay? This fight appears to be heroic, for “we are trying to save our bees!” by doping them every year. For a short-term, we may be able to save the bees. However, if we truly love the bees for a longer term, we should stop treating them, thus quickening the eventuality so that they will learn to survive without human intervention. Many bee experts and researchers in the past have pointed out to me that non- treatment will make our bees go extinct. Gone, just like that. I beg to *gently* differ. Thanks to human intervention, our bees are already surrounded by the ocean of pathogens, and thanks to our annual intervention, they are getting weaker and weaker. Too much hygienic environment is no good in real life unless you want to live inside a bubble: if a pathogen breaks that firewall, the battle is over. Hence another outbreak from a foreign source—-there will be more and other[s] than SHB, for we have been successful in isolating our bees—-can easily run havoc with this “genetically modified species” to use the term loosely. I suggest we accelerate the eventuality by not treating them at all or bringing in whichever bee species that had learned to live with such pathogens—-a reason I had, in the first place, asked to hear from for those who have not treated the bees for a while. AHB seems promising, especially since by the time they spread into most of the southern states, their super-aggressiveness will have thinned out. We have already tinkered with SMR and Russian queens, to name just a few, to broaden the gene pool. Why not AHB from Brazil? By stop treating them worldwide, do you think the bees will go extinct? (One of my Rhode Island hens has been brooding since November and by the time the eggs hatch, we will be in deep December. Is she crazy or what?) Humdinger ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 05:53:11 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dennis Murrell Subject: Re: No SHB in the dessert! (Was: Patterns in microbial border crossin g ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bob and Everyone, When the SHB first arrived on of the bee mags printed an article detailing some of the initial results of researchers looking for a fast fix. Someone tried cold temperatures thinking that like the wax moth maybe the SHB would be limited seasonally or geographically. But the larva were very hardy and were unaffected by the cold so research looked for other solutions. I am sorry I don't have the reference. Best Wishes Dennis ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 16:45:39 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Illegal Antibiotics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob, Dee & all I am not certain about this, but I am under the impression that streptomycin was incorrectly published, due to a 'journalistic' error, in the particular case that Dee is citing. > Could you tell us the way the U.K. tests (method) and if only > random drum testing ? I just do not know the answer to this, but I would imagine it is random sampling of some sort, simply due to the number of containers involved. However I think that any sample that shows 'anything' will then get 'the full treatment'. Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:10:01 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Patterns in microbial border crossing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Humdinger & All, Holiday weekends are typically slow times on BEE-L so I will try and answer your comments as may be the only response you get. I will be gone for a week next week looking out for my interests in California so need to get enough BEE-L to last a week let alone my wife's home cooking! > Treating bees, I understand, is necessary for those commercial >beekeepers since they need a solution here and right > now. This >practice appears to be myopic, however. The beekeeping industry has been on *life support* for quite a few years now. Ironic that four bee farms went bankrupt in Missouri last year when if they could have survived one more year they could have enjoyed the high honey prices and got a needed lift. To sum things up other than chemicals there has been no PROVEN alternative! > However, if we truly love the bees for a longer term, we should stop >treating them, thus quickening the eventuality so that they will learn to >survive without human intervention. I bought into the above thinking back in the eighties and early nineties. *Grandpa beekeeper * said let the weak die off and breed from the survivors. After all my leave alones had died (and i do mean all) I was glad the leave alone hives were only a small percent. Several close friends lost close to two thousand hives before going to chemicals when they refused to treat for tracheal mites or varroa at all. > bringing in whichever bee species that had learned to live with such > pathogens--a reason I had, in the first place, asked to hear from for > those who have not treated the bees for a while. I have always left a percent untreated for many years. I have got a survivor hive going into this winter two and a half years untreated. I did have to add frames of sealed honey for the bees to survive the first winter. I took the colony out of a building in which they were said to have been for five years. They swarmed this year and I cought the swarm with old queen. They raised a new queen and I believe she mated with my SMR drone colony (but she only knows). > AHB seems promising, especially since by the time they spread into >most of the southern states, their super-aggressiveness will have thinned out. Keeping AHB hybreds might be something a hobby beekeeper might consider but loading/unloading around 500 hives of those on a summer night is not something I might find enjoyable. Stir up one hive and the whole yard reacts. Next week we will be working in yards with around a thousand hives to a yard. I loaded a couple very aggressive hives on the load as we were running short on hives to send. They are marked for spring requeening . Smoke does not mellow those gals and seems to only make the situation worse. Lift the lid and they fly right at your face. Work the hive next to theirs and they react. Maybe they are of AHb decent? We have already tinkered with SMR and Russian queens, to name just a few, to broaden the gene pool. True. How SMR queens came about: When trying to breed from hives with low mite counts (a poor method but all the average breeder has to work with) the USDA at Baton Rouge found that certain colonies were handling varroa because of suppressed mite reproduction. They switched their selection process to only breed from those colonies with SMR. We have got quite a few SMR queens of both the red and yellow line. They range greatly in honey production and temperment. All SMR hives have the lowest varroa counts of our hives. I test each hive. My partner tests random as he has a greater number of hives. The SMR queens are only going into their second winter untreated. Mite counts remain below threshold . In fact lower than any hives tested. Why not AHB from Brazil? There are still plenty of nasty tempered AHb in Brazil. I do not see the AHB as the answer to any of our beekeeping problems. The gene for bad temper seems dominate in the AHB I have been told by those doing research on AHb. Plus bees with *capensis like traits* have been observed in the feral bees of Arizona by Dr. Eric Erickson, Dr. Hoffman and others. I certainly do not want any *pseudo queen* activity in my yards. Beekeepers requeening on a regular basis with queens from a reliable breeder would have little problem with AHB (myself). Hobby beekeepers letting their bees requeen on their own in an area of africanized drones could be in for a big surprise when they stroll out to work their backyard hives. "What happened to my gentle bees!" they might ask. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 12:44:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Patterns in microbial border crossing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Humdinger wrote: > Treating bees, I understand, is necessary for >those commercial beekeepers since they need a solution here and right >now. This practice appears to be myopic, however. > >By religiously treating bees with expensive chemicals that often lose its >efficacy incrementally, we are trying desperately to delay the eventuality >of the contact forever while weakening the bees even further. What a >laudable effort and stupidity! How can we stop the pathogens that are >here to stay? This fight appears to be heroic, for we are trying to >save our bees! by doping them every year. For a short-term, we may be >able to save the bees. However, if we truly love the bees for a longer >term, we should stop treating them, thus quickening the eventuality so >that they will learn to survive without human intervention. > Take this to its logical conclusion and it says to do away with all medicine and return to primitive conditions so only the strong survive. Just let nature take its course. We do not have a cure for Aids, but we treat anyway, nor cancer, nor.... All medication is intermediate and necessarily stop gap and not a solution. But to not use the tools given us and just let bees die seems a bit foolish. Just like not letting your child have antibiotics and see if they survive on their own. You can go to jail for that. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 15:46:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Yoon Sik Kim, Ph.D." Subject: Re: Patterns in microbial border crossing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bill, >Just like not letting your child have antibiotics and see if they survive on their own. You can go to jail for that. Though well-taken, I find this analogy half-accurate—-given the dynamics and variables unique both to bees and humans. We are talking about regularly administering antibiotics for every disease in the book: pimples, colds, diarrhea, indigestion, etc. Why not? “They are available and they work wonders.” This process have already resulted in genetically modified bee strands fit for the Garden of Eden, caught inside the bubble of human medication. They need to be taken out and exposed to bee-microbes. This exposure is what I am talking about. The longer we keep them inside the bubble, the more difficult it will become for us to take them out and off the doping trail. Inside the bubble, greenhouse plants are healthy and green even in winter; similarly, medicated bees can be healthy and robust in the ocean of diseases. You just wait till something pokes the protective plastic shield. To build up sting-resistance, I get stung as often as I can without deliberately doing so. Why do we expose ourselves to stings? (I remember George I. stressing that one should get stung even in WINTER to sustain the resistance, in fact.) This kind of exposure to poison or pathogens will strengthen our bees, my whole point. Perhaps a better analogy that explains how we have created EHB strands that are isolated in such a way that they cannot survive at all without human intervention—-is trying to find a complete sting-protection: bee-suits, gloves, veils, helmets, boots, flame-throwing smokers, etc. However, no matter how expensive or fancy your bee gear might be, there will be a day when one girl gets inside your suit, and you then will find out if you are allergic. Hum ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:09:44 -0500 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Illegal Antibiotics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison said: > I doubt a beekeeper would choose streptomycin to use in a beehive > because of cost. I have used streptomycin to fight a severe case of > fire blight in the orchard but expensive. Well, these folks (http://www.biacore.com) sell a diagnostic kit using "surface plasmon resonance" for the detection of streptomycin, and from what they say, it appears that not only do some (unknown group of) people appear to overtly use it for bees, but that spraying trees for fireblight can also result in contaminated honey if those trees are foraged by bees: http://www.biochem.uthscsa.edu/spr/CatalogueCD/CataloguePDF/BiacoreQ%20and%20QKits/Prodinfo_Streptomycin.pdf "Streptomycin is also used for the treatment of bacterial honeybee diseases, such as European Foulbrood, and is also intensively used for the control of fireblight, which affects fruit trees mainly during blossom. Consequently tree-spraying with high concentrations of streptomycin creates a contamination chain: pollen-nectar-bee-honey." Are they guessing here, or do they know something that beekeepers don't about this "contamination chain"? Something else "of interest" - on page 844 of the December 2002 American Bee Journal (which arrived on November 26, apparently via another of those pesky wormhole time-warps) there is a letter entitled "Let's Tell The Truth" from a Mr. Hubert Tubbs, VP of the American Honey Producers Association. In this letter, his tone makes it clear that the services of Henry Kissinger and several divisions of UN peacekeeping troops will be required to get the ABF and the AHPA to play nicely with each other, but he also makes a few serious accusations, including: "The [US] National Honey Board, American Beekeeping Federation, and some [assumed US] packers wanted the FDA [US Food and Drug Administration] to set tolerances on chloramphenicol in [Red] Chinese honey, but the American Honey Producers said "NO WAY". We told the National Honey Board that the honey industry needed zero percent tolerance on chloramphenicol. With the AHPA working with the FDA, the government has started checking Chinese honey at the port of entry." I don't know if this claim is accurate, but regardless, someone needs to explain to ABF and AHPA that it really is OK to make peace with one's "enemies", as making peace with one's friends is unnecessary. Here's yet something else that is "interesting" - the import/export trading message board over at "ebigchina.com" reveals that there is at least one European importer/packer who is willing to accept a low level of streptomycin contamination (20 ppb) in the honey he buys from China, and, given his "specs", has apparently been aware that honey from China was contaminated with streptomycin since 2000. Or is the packer an unwitting customer in Germany, and is the knowledgeable importer a business based in Cairo, run/owned by a guy who lives on Long Island (New York, USA)? I dunno. Anyone ever heard of this guy? (Just keep clicking "cancel" in reply to the username/password prompt that will appear several times when pulling up this link): http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cache:4DpHS9HZPjUC:rom.ebigchina.com/rom-men18863.html+streptomycin+honey&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 Wanted Bulk Honey We would like to have the pleasure to start business relationship with your company Importing (Bulk Honey ) from your company . We do have a buyer how is interested to buy honey. Prices should be competitive and should be around $850/MT to $900/MT maximum CFR hamburg. We would be pleased to receive your firm offers for all the types of honey you mention but we have no interest on other products, only honey in bulk. Providing you can supply us good quality honey at competitive prices, we certainly would be pleased to buy honey regularly from you. Please send us your best-detailed offers for 2 containers of each type (about 40 MT) with your delivery schedule and prices on basis CFR Hamburg, Germany. All honey should be packed in drums of about 300 kgs net, clean inside and outside, not waxed, suitable for Foodstuff and with lacquer approved for honey. The goods must be shipped in 20" containers with about 18-20 MT. With regard to specification, it should be in accordance to the German food Laws and honey regulations. But in the main the quality are parameters should be as follows: Moisture max 18% HMF max 15 mg/kg Diastase min 15 Reducing sugars min 65% Sucrose max 5% Acidity value max 40mVal/kg Colour max as agreed Starch content max 10% by pollen count Glycerol max 200 ppm Yeast max 200.000/10 gr honey C D F max 10 ppb Bee repellent (Phenol, Benzoldehyde, etc) max 50 ppb Antibiotics - not detectable (that means ss than 10 ppb) Sulphonamide not detectable Tetracycline not detectable Coumaphos max 10ppb Streptomycin max 20 ppb C-13 value -23,5 or more negative. Protein difference -1,0 or more positive Pure and unadulterated, not fermented, without any residues, according to German Food laws and Honey Regulations Our Buyer normal payment terms are : 80% Against presentation of documents and the remaining 20% within 20 days after arrival and approval at buyer warehouse. We do not accept any pre-shipment samples. In case these are requested, samples must be sent to the following address mentioning my name as reference : 10 Ahmad Kamal St - Heliopolis - Cairo - Egypt Paradise Trade Company Mr.Mosallam Abdallah However, no samples are to be sent without specific instructions from me. I look forward to receiving your reply. Post Date [ 2000 / 06 / 09 ] Expires Date [ 2001 / 06 / 04 ] Paradise INC. Contact Person: Mossallam Abdallah Region/Country: United States of America Address: 1385 M St, Elmont 11003 USA Phone: 1-516-437-5681 Fax Number: 1-516-437-5690 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:04:35 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Illegal Antibiotics Comments: To: jfischer@supercollider.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > but that spraying trees for fireblight can also result in contaminated >honey if those trees are foraged by bees All our *Apple nectar* goes in the brood box. Apparently in China the bees produce honey from a plant/tree which is sprayed with streptomycin heavily for fire blight (and possibly when in bloom). However the most likely streptomycin contamination comes from use of streptomycin for bee disease and saying the contamination was picked up in the orchard by the bees. Once the spray has dried I hardly see how enough could be on the blossoms to cause the scale of contamination talked about as we spray between bud swell and quarter -inch green tip before the blossoms open up. I have not had to spray for fireblight for about seven years. I have been cutting out the fireblight when I see the fireblight. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 00:30:51 +0000 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Re: Illegal Antibiotics - by accident MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James, You mention that use of antibiotics in orchard use may result in a contamination chain: pollen-nectar-bee-honey." Then, "Are they guessing here, or do they know something that beekeepers don't about his "contamination chain?" In 2000, Black forest area of Germany, it was found that honey sold was contaminated with an antibiotic - which was thought to have had its origin in treatment of fruit trees against fireblight. The scandal that resulted was not due to the presence of the antibiotic - but that its manufacturer when contacted attempted to buy up all the honey to keep the story out of the public domain. More details - really sorry, but have not the time to get things together (trans- atlantic flight tomorrow morning) - maybe a search on www.apiservices.com might help. I know that the German beekeepers were appalled at the time, as much discussion was ongoing about antibiotic residue levels in honey. Hating to leave this in the air in such a way - and if the moderator pulls the mail - understood. Peter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:35:20 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: ABF and AHPA Comments: To: jfischer@supercollider.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim wrote: > In this letter, his tone makes it clear that the services of Henry >Kissinger and several divisions of UN peacekeeping troops will be >required to get the ABF and the AHPA to play nicely with each other, Many of us attend both groups meetings at times but usually prefer one group or another. The feud has been going on since 1943 when the split came. Several times the leaders of both groups have talked about combining and then something happens and the deal falls through. Right now the two groups are about as far apart as I have ever seen. The AHPA has made some serious charges against the ABF. I hope the ABF responds in the next ABJ so we can get both sides of the issue. Not responding to the AHPA charges made on page 844 of the Dec. American Bee Journal would be a ABF leadership mistake in my opinion. I hate to see the situation get so serious that the groups are airing their *dirty laundry* in the bee mags. As a beekeeper which has never held office in either organization and has only attended conventions I see a few problems with both organizations but they are what we have got and both have done quite a bit for the U.S. beekeepers but in different areas in the last year. Both groups are headed by the *top guns* of todays beekeeping industry. I walk a middle road (unlike many of my fellow beekeepers). I respect both the ABF and the AHPA and the members of both and will be glad when the tension eases a bit.. Bob