From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:17:38 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.4 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ALL_NATURAL, AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECF0048920 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDAZd0011456 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0302B" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 191565 Lines: 4296 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 08:30:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Cold Weather Issue ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > It is his opinion that a mated queen subjected to > cold temperatures will have permanent damage > done to her ovaries resulting in infertility. I recall something to that effect coming from a Penn State study when they were trying to determine the conditions queens are subjected to when they are shipped twixt there and here. When I first read, "reference was to temperatures below 70 degrees Fahrenheit", I thought, "That could only happen in shipping." As others have observed, a queen would never get that cold in a colony. Cold day mating flight? Doubtful she'd fly. Anyway, I don't recall exactly the Penn State study (it was done in the Jennifer Findley days), but there was documented a definite cause and effect of cold on queen performance, but I seem to recall that the cause was more extreme (temperatures far below 70dF) and am not sure the effect was total infertility; I think it was more along the lines of poor performance and quick supersedure. Aaron Morris - thinking baby it's cold outside! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 05:47:29 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Cold Weather Issue ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In a local bee class, a veteran (recently infamous) Kentucky beekeeper > made a statement that I question. It is his opinion that a mated > queen subjected to cold temperatures will have permanent damage done > to her ovaries resulting in infertility. His reference was to > temperatures below 70 degrees Fahrenheit. I wasn't going to relpy to this because I just do not know the complete answer, and guessing can be counterproductive, since guesses appears to give an answer when they usually just muddy the water. Nonetheless, I do have some experience and some casual observations and will present them with the caveat that they are just that, and may actually be misleading, due to the fact that I did not follow the queens for any longer than a few months, if that, and did not compare them to queens which were never chilled. In the spring, sometimes queens are found abandoned, with a few bees, when newly installed packages drift or dwindle. In mating nucs, occasioanally a queen will be found with only a few bees. Other times, introduced queens can be found isolated from the cluster, still in their shippping cage, when the cluster contracts. In each of these cases the queen may be chilled to the extent that she seems dead, but often recovers when warmed up. Is she ever as good again? I don't know, not having tracked such queens beyond seeing them accepted and laying and otherwise seeming normal. Virgins in cells introduced to mating nucs sometimes get pretty cool at night if the nuc dwindles, yet still seem to get mated and laying well. I suppose that this question must be answered, and answered scientifically, somewhere. The IBRA provides references, abstracts and copies of relevant studies (for a fee), and I have useed them on occasion, notably when we debated the question of whether emergency queens can be as good as cultivated queens. I know that some of the extension people and others know good places online to search for science on these types of questions. Some are subscription and fee based, others may be free, and some are a bit of both. Let's compile a list of sites to go to search for such info and I'll put them onto one web page. I'll lead off with http://www.ibra.org.uk/ and http://www.ingenta.com/ Frankly, I came up empty at ingenta. What sites do others have in their bookmarks? allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 05:13:21 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "adrian m. wenner" Subject: A useful book Comments: cc: JoTraynor@aol.com, HDoleKlein@aol.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Mark Hoguet just pointed out an error in my last posting (about TINY GAME HUNTING): I think you mean June 2001! (You said 1991.) Sorry about that. Yes, the new edition came out just a year and a half ago. Adrian -- Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home office phone) 967 Garcia Road wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara, CA 93103 www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm **************************************************************************** * * "T'is the majority [...that] prevails. Assent, and you are sane * Demur, you're straightway dangerous, and handled with a chain." * * Emily Dickinson, 1862 * **************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 08:23:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Almond Bloom in California MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by jims@COT.NET to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. ----------------- Original message (ID=ED5ED2E0) (60 lines) ------------------- From: "Jim Smith" To: "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology" Subject: Re: Re: [BEE-L] Almond Bloom in California Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 21:07:49 -0800 Guys, Pink Bud is the term and I wouldn't be too confident that the almond growers that don't spray actually don't--there are common organic oils, lime sulfur and other compounds usually applied about this time. Of course, these sprays should have minimal (if any) effects on bees--especially if timing is adjusted to early am or later pm. Just thought I would chip in my two cents, no offense meant, just information. Bloom seems early this year for sure! Jim Smith Tulelake, CA Border of CA and OR Former Consultant in Sacramento Valley dealing with Almonds > Bob wrote:... > Many of those which have been putting on a *green tip* spray will be > getting hives this week.... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 08:43:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Almond Bloom in California MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim said: Guys, Pink Bud is the term and I wouldn't be too confident that the almond growers that don't spray actually don't--there are common organic oils, lime sulfur and other compounds usually applied about this time. The Almond grower across the road from the groves we pollinate does not use any sprays and never has . He prunes and gathers the almonds. The grower feels he does better than the grower which invests in sprays and labor spraying especially in bad years. The Almond grower which we pollinate uses various sprays all the time. He even held us up wanting to put yet another spray on this year ( our bees have been in the groves for about five days). Growing up in Florida we had the same scenario. One grower would spray their orange trees and the next grower never touched his orchard except to pick the fruit. Of course production would be better on the orange/almond groves which were sprayed and maintained BUT the bottom line figure at times could be better on the *leave alone* grove. In Florida my father was always spraying, pruning etc. and we did get beautiful oranges BUT oranges hauled to the processing plant brought the same money( bought by weight) and the only requirment was the oranges did not come off the ground (good looking oranges recently fallen many times did). I picked and hauled many loads of oranges to earn extra money as a teenager in Florida. Also *fired* a few orange groves in cold weather. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 19:18:54 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Vs: Re: [BEE-L] how to fight varroa with organic acids MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Allen dick wrote > Aren't we all? Chemical residues are definitely something to be worried > about. I understand that oxalic and formic do not leave noticeable > residues, but I had heard that thymol can get into honey enough to be > tasted? Have you observed that? > > Have these treatments affected your honey yields or wintering at all, or > have you studied that aspect of this approach? >From my experience I would say that everything we use for varroa treatments ends up in small amounts sooner or later to honey. Formic acid treatments raise the amount of it in the honey. From Central European results we know that the natural amounts of formic acid are very high in some honeydew honeys and the varroa treatments don't raise the amount of formic acid even near these natural figures. Oxalic acid has not had so many residue studies, but we can say that the residues are very small. Thymol was a problem in the beginning in Switzerland and Germany when beekeepers just poured chrystals into hives. About the same way as menthol is used in the USA. If you have thymol treatment in the hive during the honeyflow you can get residues that you can taste. We only recommend to use it in the fall once for about 3 weeks or whatever it takes to evaporate. We simply melt the thymol in water bath and pour 12 g for 5 cm *15 cm wettex ( a commercial kitchen cleaning cloth). One strip for hives with one box and two for a hive with 2 boxes. Even this kind of short use leaves some residues ( from last summer we could detect residues in about 50 % of samples) but these are about 1 % from the level detected by human senses. The residues don't increase from year to year as they do with synthetic chemicals. Thymol is used in some sweets and soft drinks. Its also the main component of Apilife VAR varroa treatment. As I told before all these three are also natural ingredients of honey. Overdoses kill bees, but when used according to recomendations we have had very few problems. Thats why we have had the normal beekeepers to accept so widely this way of varroa treatment. Ari Ari Seppälä MMM Projektipäällikkö Project Manager Suomen Mehiläishoitajain Liitto r.y. Finnish Beekeepers' Association komppa-seppala@co.inet.fi www.hunaja.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 08:38:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: US Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The market for honey slowed for a while, and I guess the Argentine crop is still unknown; Feb 8 in the Argentine is like Aug 8 here, and still early for a good estimate. Nonetheless, prices continue firm. A broker told me yesterday that he had turned down an offer to purchase at $1.60 US in expectation of higher prices. Meanwhile, a number of Canadian packers are meeting in Ottawa and I'm told that, among other things, they are trying to figure out how to limit and reduce the prices paid to beekeepers. Over this past season, the offers from those in that group have been amazingly similar from one to another, but I know they would not be price fixing, because that would be illegal. With better communication between beekeepers, buyers are finding it tough to fool the beekeepers and it is worrying them. Some of these buyers still manage to find a few beekeepers who are out of touch and buy cheap -- I've seen it happen -- but with the internet and hotlines like the Mid-US hotline (1-763-658-4193) more beekeepers know what the market price is, and the old tricks do not work as well. Claims of retail buyer resistance made by some packers' are not being met with much belief or sympathy, either, since beekeepers can find out the facts. As always, some accounts are changing hands, and some, like MacDonald's, are switching from honey to something else, but this last item is due to concerns about honey quality in the wake of the Chinese chlorampenicol recall (caused by their own policy of buying the cheapest), not price. Apparently some packers are losing business, but others are doing just fine. While some packers are complaining about the price, these others are realizing that the (revenue) size of their business just doubled! Margins may not be what they were, but the profits are still there for the smart ones and will creep back up. The current price bump is due to quality problems with Chinese honey. In the near future, we are going to see increased demands for quality assurance and smart beekeepers are starting to think about better record keeping and diverting some of the windfalls of this past season towards improving facilities and moving in the direction of HACCP. When the current countervail actions wear off, the only factor that will keep prices up for the beekeeper is quality assurance. Volume buyers and packers -- and their insurance companies -- are going to want proof that what happened with Chinese honey does not happen again. In five years, I predict that beekeepers who cannot provide convincing documentation of their management and handling practices may not be able to sell honey in any developed country. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 08:06:08 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Tooley Subject: Re: Almond Bloom in California In-Reply-To: <5AF61A7A68D97645B968E3F6F7D069A1017BC1@email.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > From: "Jim Smith" Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 > growers that don't spray actually don't--there are common organic oils, > lime > sulfur and other compounds usually applied about this time. Of course, > these sprays should have minimal (if any) effects on bees--especially if > timing is adjusted to early am or later pm I believe almond growers are well aware of the dangers of putting insecticide on bloom.I dont worry about that anymore.I do have a slight concern about the heavy fungicide spraying that goes on during every break between rainstorms.I know it has to be done ,I guess it just bugs me a little to see the blast of spray hit a tree full of bees during the warm part of the day.A few dead bees can be found in front of the hives when this is going on.Guess its just the price we pay so the growers can save the bloom.I never stayed around long enough to see how long before the bees returned to the trees ,but the spraying sure makes an orchard go quiet right after.An old farmer told me once"Look on the bright side.It will keep the mold from growing on the boxes!" Cold weather has slowed the bloom some but warmer wetter weather seems to be on the way next week. ---Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:34:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: cold weather issue; queen performance I have seen the same reference, and I think I have seen it more than once. I am reasonably certain the reference was to temperatures below 70 F, during metamorphism. Should such exposure take place, I think that her subsequent fertility will be severely damaged. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, manufacturer of comb honey equipment for beekeepers and Sundance pollen traps. http://www.rossrounds.com Lloyd@rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 12:45:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Swam trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Anyone knwo of a source of those pressed fiber swarm traps that hold 4-5 frames? thanks, Keith ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 11:29:59 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Winter Inspection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Milt Lathan wrote: >I am planning to open my (5) hives for the 1st time this year. This is not >my first winter - but - other than clearing the dead bees and seeing >whether they need feeding - What does a beekeeper look for? > Hi Milt, I'm in your area. I'm at Hood Canal at sea level. First . I'm just taking off the lids to look at the clusters.. If you have wall to wall bees , lift the back of the hive , to check for weight.. I would not break the box's apart yet. We still are clustered up. Allow the bees to stay clustered. If you upset them too much , you will cause stress in the hive. What I look for right now , is hive populations. That will trigger me for feeding. Wait two more weeks before you start pulling frames. You want all the brood that you have at this time. . As far as what to look for, take a good look in the archives of the Bee-L. You can write a book about it. The simple side comes first. 4 frames of bees with a dry box. Moisture is a big problem.. You will get more as the bees start using up more honey. > >Best Regards > Roy Nettlebeck Tahuya River Apiaries Tahuya Wa. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 14:54:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: jmowat Subject: Re: Skunks In-Reply-To: <200302051522.h15DtgoY007223@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I used an upper entrance on all my hives. No skunk problem although they were certainly in the area. The entrance was too high for them and even if they tried to reach up, their soft bellies would get exposed and stung. And it solved the problem that I'd been having with the bees refusing to come through the excluder. Take a look here: http://www.beesource.com/pov/hayes/abjaug85.htm Jay Mowat Erin, Ontario Peter writes I have just accepted skunk damage and the resultant annoyed bees. In the "good old days" beekeepers put strychnine tablets on the landing boards. Any ideas -- aside from moving to England? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 14:13:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Edward D Heinlein Subject: Re: Swam trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keith, I found a great source for those bee swarm traps at a local nursery. I told the owner what I was looking for, even showed him a pic from a catalog. It took his 3 minutes to locate his supplier. They cost ME $3 each!!!! I had to fashion the lids myself, which I did with some 3/8 plywood and an inner "ring" of the blue foam insulation glued on with silicone rubber glue. I also "sealed up" 3 of the 4 drain holes on the bottom, although I don't know if that was really necessary. It was late spring before I finished the traps and the only swarm I caught was one that was located too high for me to reach, in a neighbor's fir tree. I set up 3 swarm traps in trees about 20 feet away from the swarm and once the sun warmed the swarm, they immediately took up residence in one of the traps! I didn't realize it at the time, but it was a very educational experience for the neighbors. Everyone wanted to see what was going on. I gave a short explanation of swarms and swarming, and my theory that since I couldn't reach the swarm, I'd make finding that new home a cake walk for the bees. The on lookers were all skeptical about the efficacy of swarm traps, but let me tell you, when the swarm decided they found home, they sky filled, then lighted on the trap and within an hour they were all inside. Sometimes things do go as planned, the neighbors thought I was God or something! I loved the astonished look on adults and kids alike. Many were terrified at first, you know what with all the scare of "killer bees". After words, I had one dad and his son over the next day to hive the swarm. So check out your local nursery! Ed Heinlein Helena, MT ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 16:20:11 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Beekeeperc@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Swam trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brushy Mountain Bee Farm carry rhe swarn traps that you want. Call them toll free at 1-800-beeswax. Norm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 16:57:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: Swam trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I looked in the catalog and all the have are the round ones - I was looking for the rectangular traps that one can put several frames in to entice the bees. Keith Beekeeperc@AOL.COM wrote: > Brushy Mountain Bee Farm carry rhe swarn traps that you want. > Call them toll free at 1-800-beeswax. > > Norm > > -- Keith Benson DVM Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.- Hanlon's razor ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 22:29:52 -0500 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: BATTLE Subject: Re: US Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen said: > The current price bump is due to quality problems with Chinese honey. Let's not attribute all of price delta to the Chinese contamination situation. There are also the widespread drought conditions that have reduced harvests, and will continue to have impact, both on the current Southern Hemisphere crops, and this spring's Northern Hemisphere crops. > I guess the Argentine crop is still unknown... still early for a good estimate.... One of the widely ignored reasons why NASA space shuttles are critical assets for everyone on the planet is that they cheaply and accurately launch all sorts of really neat satellites that send data down to Earth, where US tax dollars turn the data into pretty pictures, available to all at no charge. (Mini-Rant: Columbia was 30 years old! Would you let your wife drive a 30-year-old car even a few hundred miles away from home? Connect the dots.) I'd say that it is almost no brainier to look at the pretty pictures and predict that Argentina's crop is going to be smaller than one might expect. Argentina has been dry enough to color much of the country pink and red, which mean "dry" and "hot". http://www.agweb.com/news_show_news_article.asp?file=AgNewsArticle_20031311410_3812&articleid=94943&newscat=GN Much of North America has been in a general drought for nearly 4 years now, and while the Eastern USA seems to be out of trouble at last, those big states west of the Mississippi where beekeepers with 1,000 hives are called "hobbyists" continue to be seriously dry. I watch the overall US situation here: http://www.drought.unl.edu/dm/monitor.html Most of the planet is covered by this very tidy service, but the metric is not merely "dry" vs "wet". They track a much more gestalt "vegetation stress index", which I feel is of much more value in predicting nectar variations. (Of course, winter is a time to simply count percip and degree-days rather than worry about "current conditions"...) http://orbit-net.nesdis.noaa.gov/crad/sat/surf/vci/ Another easy trick is to watch the crop reports and futures prices of bulk commodities that are traded on the CBOT and other futures exchanges. Weather than impacts the bulk crops also impacts nectar plants. (I've seen a single rainstorm make a 10% difference in futures contracts, tangible proof of "pennies from heaven".) What drives all these droughts? Ocean surface temperatures have been way out of wack, and the current consensus is that there is a direct connection between ocean temperatures and downwind rainfall (or lack thereof). jim (Who has found that the secret to it all is to watch Maria Bartiromo of MSNBC on one screen and Christina Abernathy of the Weather Channel on another while playing Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" Album on the stereo...) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 17:15:17 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Smoke and bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Whilst working my cell builders this morning, I got to thinking about = smoke and bees. Bee-L has had a lot of discussion on what fuel to use = in the smoker but why does it work? I have heard the old story we tell young children of how smoke makes the = bees think it is a bush fire and they gore honey, are full and cannot = move properly and hence are quiet. Most logical is that smoke disrupts the pheromone communication within = the hive by the bees. But then we use all sorts of fuel in our smokers = so it would seem that it does not matter what the source of the smoke is = but that it is smoke. So can we use something that will stir the bees = up enough so as to overcome the disruptive nature of the pheromone = communication? Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 13:47:48 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George T Subject: woodpecker Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi all, I have a big problem with my bees. The colonies wintered well. A week ago I visited my beeyard and I found out that a woodpecker made a whole 2 inches diameter and the colony dead. I have put a bell and a scarecrow but no luck. Yesterday I visited again my beeyard and 3 more hives dead and plenty of small holes in the hives bodies ( near upper entrances). Can you help me telling me what to do to get rid of this woodpecker. Going this way I’ll finish with no colonies in the spring. George Tamas _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 08:20:41 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: US Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Let's not attribute all of price delta to the Chinese contamination > situation... There are also the widespread drought conditions that > have reduced harvests... Good point, Jim. There are many factors that have pushed the price up, and it was already trending well upwards when the chlorampenicol find took honey from China -- one of the largest cheap exporters in the world -- completely and instantly off the markets, in most of the world's largest consuming countries. This sudden supply disruption squeezed those buyers who depended on Chinese sources, and those who were playing it cool up to that point. I think most industry watchers agree that the chloramphenicol find was the point at which everyone -- buyers and sellers -- decided that the uptrend was not just a flash in the pan and that higer prices would last at least a few months, or even a year or two. Buyers fell all over one another. Conveniently also, the chloramphenicol discovery provided a convenient marker for Chinese honey. Suddenly those who had been circumventing duties on Chinese honey, by declaring it to be from elsewhere, were exposed. Many buyers suffered a double whammy: large unexpected losses due to seizures of the cheap honey, when they had been budgeting on illicit gains. In some cases, notably in Canada, choramphenicol finds resulted in a natiional recall of a wide variety of foods made with the contaminated product. Increased scrutiny of imports and products on store shelves in most develeoped caused packers to become more conscious and scrupulous about their sources and aware of potential large unexpected losses if their raw product was questioned. The honey trade became riskier, and risk increases price. That risk will be there for some time. Maybe it will never go away again. I am proposing that we take advantage of that fear by making sure we do not contaminate our honey -- and that we can document that we did not -- so that we can cash in on the premium. >> I guess the Argentine crop is still unknown... still early for a >> good estimate.... > I'd say that it is almost no brainier to look at the pretty pictures > and predict that Argentina's crop is going to be smaller than one > might expect. Pehaps, but consider this: at the end of July it was a no-brainer that Western Canada would not have an average crop this year. The end of July here is comparable to a week ago in the Southern Hemisphere. At that point in 2002, we were facing the 'worse drought of the century'. Alfalfa had not been cut and was so dry that the leaves and flowers fell off. When the TV camers came to one of my yards, the grasshoppers flew up in clouds ahead of us as we walked. A disaster was declared in Western Canada. Then the Minister of Agriculture announced (finally) a vist to Alberta see the disaster first hand. It then began to rain and rained for several days prior to his visit and during that visit. At any rate, everything began to grow again, and we had second growth in most crops. Some beekeepers still got disaster yields, but others got a bumper yield in late August and September, a time when usually our supers are off and the bees are being fed for winter. Canola bloomed *everywhere* until the frost. You are right, though. Weather observations can spot *probabilities* by comparing the present to the past. BUT, as every gambler needs to know, "The next time is always the first time". allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 09:46:09 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: US Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen said: > The current price bump is due to quality problems with Chinese honey. Although the drought is a big factor as Jim pointed out the Chinese honey quality problem IS the big reason for the huge price spike. Migratory beekeepers are in less of a drought problem as we have got other options. I am in according to the map Jim posted an area of extreme severe drought. If rain does not come before the third week of April we will get a small crop (if any) in our area. Later rains will be too late for the spring clover crop. Many packers have long hid the huge amount of Chinese honey coming into the U.S. from beekeepers AND the general public. Several have *said* all the honey they sell in the U.S. is only U.S. honey. A fact often disputed by their employees in private conversation. It is my OPINION that the time has come for the FDA to take off the *kid gloves* with a few packers. Going around the China tariffs is bad enough. EXAMPLE: Viet Nam was the largest exporter of honey to the U.S. last year. Viet Nam must have had the "mother of all honey crops" Going around the tariffs and bringing in China honey known to be contaminated should be jail time. Certainly an all time low for certain honey packers. Hands were slapped when certain packers were caught adding fructose a few years back to increase profits. The confiscation of almost $300,000 of China honey this week is an excellent first step. Hardly a slap on the wrist. I posted on BEE-L that honey is on a 3 year watch list and a local packer honey was sampled. The FDA may sample almost every honey sold in most U.S. stores over the next three years. I welcome the testing. Do You! Bob "Buy local U.S. Honey" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 10:15:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Smoke and bees Greetings Having worked with bees for almost 30 years, I have reached the following conslusion: Smoke intoxicates the honey bee. The symptoms appear very similar to alcohol intoxication in humans. Sure, it affects communication, but I think this is a secondary effect due to their fuzzied responses. I think the primary effect is that it dulls their awareness, which accounts for the lack of defensive response -- and lowers their inhibitions, which causes them to gorge on honey. Normally the bees protect the hive and its honey stores with great vigilance, except when it's very warm and they are on a serious honey flow. Then, they seem to be too concerned about their work too worry about anything else. But what about drumming? I wonder how THAT works? (for anyone who does not know it, if you drum rhythmically on a hive they will eventually pour out of it) pb ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 10:23:35 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Morris Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 7 Feb 2003 to 8 Feb 2003 (#2003-40) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/8/03 11:02:29 PM Central Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: << I looked in the catalog and all the have are the round ones - I was looking for the rectangular traps that one can put several frames in to entice the bees. Keith >> Dadant has a "waterproof" cardboard one it is selling. Might be worth trying a few. I am going to try them. Tim Morris ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 11:05:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: muses Subject: woodpecker MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Id hang out by my hives and guard them with a 12 guage 7 or 8 shot. Nothing is so vaulable as a well wintered hive! We still expect a couple months before the bee's will be up and about. On others lists we call it the three S's. Shoot shovel and shut up. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 12:04:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carol Palmer Subject: Re: Skunks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I noticed that a solid bottom board was used in the experiment. I wonder what would have happened had a screened bottom board been used? Carol Palmer ----- Original Message ----- From: "jmowat" To: Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Skunks > Take a look here: > > http://www.beesource.com/pov/hayes/abjaug85.htm > > Jay Mowat > Erin, Ontario ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 19:43:43 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Trattle Subject: Re: woodpecker In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This subject came up a couple of months back. Staple black plastic refuse bags loosely to the outside of the hive so they cover the vulnerable hand holds and flap about a bit in the wind. I've not known it to fail. Joe Trattle Norfolk, UK --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 10/01/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 21:21:10 -0500 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: BATTLE Subject: Re: US Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob said: > Many packers have long hid the huge amount of Chinese honey coming into the > U.S. from beekeepers AND the general public. > It is my OPINION that the time has come for the FDA to take off the *kid > gloves* with a few packers. Bob knows much more than I do about the bulk honey business than I do, so his statement, combined with similar statements made in the most recent American Bee Journal, prompted me to idly push a few buttons while waiting for some tea to brew. The data is, ummm, surprising. > Viet Nam must have had the "mother of all honey crops". But it's not just Vietnam. There are a number of countries that shipped little or no honey to the USA in 1999 or 2000, but shipped significantly increased amounts to the USA in 2001 and/or 2002. (The complete list for all countries that shipped honey to the USA is appended at the end of this message in comma-delimited format, suitable for pasting into your favorite spreadsheet program.) What bothers me is that while I could find, grab, crunch, and come to the obvious conclusion about the data using a mere laptop in the time it takes water to boil, customs apparently can't (or won't) do such basic "sanity checks" against their own database at port of entry. The "interesting" countries are listed below. I don't think it takes much imagination to conclude that something funny was (and is) going on right under the noses of the customs service. Here's the ranking of eyebrow raisers, by percentage increase over 1999 imports. These percentages are NOT typos, and there are no decimal points in any of them. CHILE 2001 US imports were 4554% of 1999 2002 US imports were 17601% of 1999 UKRAINE 2000 US imports were 1149% of 1999 2001 US imports were 0 2002 US imports were 8019% of 1999 INDIA 2001 US imports were 75% of 1999 2002 US imports were 7834% of 1999 SPAIN 2001 US imports were 1519% of 1999 2002 US imports were 7650% of 1999 URUGUAY 2001 US imports were 1916% of 1999 2002 US imports were 6531% of 1999 TURKEY 2001 US imports were 569% of 1999 2002 US imports were 1608% of 1999 VIETNAM 2001 US imports were 416% of 1999 2002 US imports were 1385% of 1999 While I am not inclined to see a gunman behind every grassy knoll, I am highly skeptical about increases of over 500% from anywhere. Below is a list of less clear-cut, and generally small-time, but still eyebrow-raising cases: MALAYSIA Nothing in 1999-2001 $1,105,750 (US dollars) in 2002 GUATEMALA Nothing in 1999-2001 $229,230 in 2002 PERU Nothing in 1999-2001 $166,552 in 2002 BURMA Nothing in 1999-2001 $92,625 in 2002 MOLDOVA Nothing in 1999-2001 $71,892 in 2002 BAHAMAS Nothing in 1999-2001 $16,799 in 2002 NEPAL Nothing in 1999 $10,430 in 2000 Nothing in 2001-2002 COLOMBIA Nothing in 1999-2000 $7,305 in 2001 Nothing in 2002 EGYPT Nothing in 1999-2000 $3,300 in 2001 Nothing in 2002 LATVIA Nothing in 1999-2001 $2,765 in 2002 Below is the complete honey import dollar-value data from US Customs for 1999 through 2002 Q3 (2002 Q4 data is not yet available) in comma-delimited format. I got all of this data at http://dataweb.usitc.gov/ It is all "public information". I presume that it is fairly accurate and complete. jim ============================================ == If You Cut Here, You May Break Your Monitor Screen == ============================================ EXPORTING,US $,US $,US $,US $,Delta %,Delta %,Delta % COUNTRY,1999,2000,2001,2002 Q1-3,2000,2001,2002 ,,,,,,, Argentina,40777093,42848930,18977557,3291944,105%,47%,8% Australia,535861,175210,564397,2939104,33%,105%,548% Austria,118349,110678,88501,90795,94%,75%,77% BAHAMAS,0,0,0,16799,,, Brazil,,170723,172454,3249661,,, Bulgaria,8890,40348,63667,70673,454%,716%,795% BURMA,0,0,0,92625,,, Canada,17077133,17573902,17662151,27469500,103%,103%,161% CHILE,21826,0,994042,3841570,0%,4554%,17601% China,21132756,22328252,15684355,6800624,106%,74%,32% COLOMBIA,0,0,7305,0,,, Croatia,12222,0,0,9177,0%,0%,75% Czech Republic,,10663,56701,60764,,, Denmark,0,0,16488,88727,,, Dominican Rep,60667,121280,229965,87286,200%,379%,144% EGYPT,0,0,3300,0,,, El Salvador,2082,0,0,0,0%,0%,0% France,223460,325416,215638,186119,146%,96%,83% Germany,255445,224592,412645,594167,88%,162%,233% Greece,235095,175378,250418,224966,75%,107%,96% GUATEMALA,0,0,0,229230,,, Hong Kong,54449,18691,14727,184364,34%,27%,339% Hungary,100437,191849,832846,335904,191%,829%,334% INDIA,35300,0,26520,2765483,0%,75%,7834% Israel,45712,15078,20830,46343,33%,46%,101% Italy,98399,171776,145303,253117,175%,148%,257% Korea,11240,0,0,0,0%,0%,0% LATVIA,0,0,0,2765,,, Lebanon,3000,0,2175,3600,0%,73%,120% MALAYSIA,0,0,0,1105750,,, Mexico,3730216,2416721,5059815,13298257,65%,136%,357% MOLDOVA,0,0,0,71892,,, NEPAL,0,10430,0,0,,, Netherlands,0,3271,2809,0,,, New Zealand,185580,254163,306879,135626,137%,165%,73% Nicaragua,46328,30294,22816,0,65%,49%,0% Pakistan,0,0,3420,25213,,, PERU,0,0,0,166552,,, Philippines,,2457,3350,0,,, Poland,16398,52147,74335,47409,318%,453%,289% Portugal,10425,16304,24052,8436,156%,231%,81% Romania,0,0,42314,163560,,, Russia,47124,32877,85958,45087,70%,182%,96% Saudi Arabia,0,3296,0,0,,, Slovakia,0,0,26355,0,,, South Africa,2130,8151,0,4305,383%,0%,202% SPAIN,5605,4208,85138,428772,75%,1519%,7650% Sweden,0,3113,0,2595,,, Switzerland,225826,298857,241467,320994,132%,107%,142% Taiwan,68156,105367,90010,83841,155%,132%,123% Thailand,0,124604,1431255,5230683,,, TURKEY,19265,24348,109628,309776,126%,569%,1608% UKRAINE,2180,25041,0,174807,1149%,0%,8019% United Kingdom,120669,123853,64886,27772,103%,54%,23% URUGUAY,136394,43821,2613352,8907478,32%,1916%,6531% VIETNAM,1163307,1406344,4843437,16111808,121%,416%,1385% Zambia,0,0,23479,0,,, =============== == End Of Dump == =============== ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 22:38:50 -0500 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: BATTLE Subject: Re: Smoke and bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trevor said: > But then we use all sorts of fuel in our smokers so it would seem that it does not > matter what the source of the smoke is but that it is smoke. >From a chemical standpoint, "all sorts of fuels" simplifies down to "cellulose". Here's something some lightweight wrote that may be of minor value: http://www.beeculture.com/beeculture/months/02aug/02aug2.htm And I should state for the record that I >>agree<< with Peter Borst... ...about 80% of the time. :) jim ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:36:59 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: US Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One country that did not appear on either the list of Bob or Jim was Singapore. It suddenly had a great honey crop and exported a lot of honey. Must have been a bumper season amongst the high rise buildings. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 04:12:40 -0500 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: BATTLE Subject: Re: woodpecker MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Muses" mused: > Id hang out by my hives and guard them with a 12 guage 7 or 8 shot. The mighty big-game hunter can't even spell "gauge" !!! :) The Federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act protects all types of woodpeckers and packs a $5,000 fine and/or six months of sharing a room with a guy named "Spike" in the federal pen, where violators will be certain to be the object of constant scorn and abuse, since even hard-core criminals have contempt for pedophiles and killers of cute harmless animals. Your nickname will likely be "Biatch", as in "Spike's Biatch". > Nothing is so vaulable as a well wintered hive! How about a colorful bird? > We still expect a couple months before the bee's will be up and about. So you'd better wear thermal underwear while standing around in the snow waiting for Woody Woodpecker. It will be a very long wait. Woodpeckers are smarter than guys who think that they can get within shotgun range of one. > On others lists we call it the three S's. > Shoot shovel and shut up. The "Three Ss" that would best apply here are "Stupid, Savage, and Slipshod". jim (who possesses "Weapons of Mass Communication") ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:08:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Early spring Here is a picture I thought the list would enjoy. Bob mentioned an early spring this year. I took this picture of an apple tree in my back yard in late January. Please excuss the messy website, I'm still working on it. http://webpages.charter.net/tvaughan/appletree.html Regards Tim Vaughan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:09:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Basswood square section comb equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Keith G. Benson posted a query to BEE-L regarding the availabliity or square section comb honey supplies. I quickly shot back a direct response that square section comb honey supplies are a standard offering in most catalogs, but looking around I've been surprised to discover that square comb sections are indeed not offered in some of the catalogs I was SURE would have them. I apologize to Keith for my quick response. I now wonder if the supply houses are dropping square comb sections (at least the Basswood boxes, Hogg Half equipment is still listed) from their offerings. Could it be that so few people product the square sections that they are no longer cost effective for the suppliers? I have only checked sites with online catalogs, I don't have the hard copy catalogs in my office. I DID find basswood sections offered at: http://www.draperbee.com/beesupplies/suppy%20images/woodsections.jpg but they're only offered at single prices (vs. cases of 100). I must admit that I am quite surprized by this. I could speculate that the suppliers have decided that wooden sections are going by the wayside. Could this be so? Are we witnessing the end to an era? Aaron Morris - thinking time marches on! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:33:10 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Layne Westover Subject: Re: Basswood square section comb equipment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have always been able to buy the basswood comb honey section boxes from Walter T. Kelley in Kentucky (although I noticed they were unavailable from many other sources). I suppose they still sell them. Kelley's never used to have a web site, but I was just checking and it seems they have one now. I found a reference to the cartons (boxes) for the basswood sections on their website, but I could not find a reference to the section boxes themselves. Either I did not look hard enough, or they are not listed on their website, though I think if you will look at their printed catalog you will find them. Layne Westover ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:39:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Basswood square section comb equipment Walter T Kelley still offers complete wooden section supers including replacement sections, holders, springs, the metal gizmo for inserting the foundation and finally, the cardboard cartons with the cellophane window. Not gone yet!! pb ps, they also have the round comb supers and related paraphernalia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:54:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Early spring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tim Vaughan wrote: > Here is a picture I thought the list would enjoy. Bob mentioned an early > spring this year. I took this picture of an apple tree in my back yard in > late January. Would like to send a pic of our apple trees, but they are buried under snow. All beekeeping and weather is local. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 00:20:29 +1300 Reply-To: peter@airborne.co.nz Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Bray Organization: Airborne Honey Ltd. Subject: Re: US Honey Prices In-Reply-To: <01C2D081.2B4843B0.jfischer@supercollider.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT James Fischer wrote > There are a number of countries that shipped little or no honey to the USA in > 1999 or 2000, but shipped significantly increased amounts to the USA in 2001 > and/or 2002. This is surely the market acting as just that - a market. Someone can't supply, someone else can...... The World produces around 1,200,000 tonnes. Only 250,000 of this is traded. There are certainly countries (like China, Argentina and Mexico) that contribute a large amount of their crop to this trade. But there's another 950,000 tonnes that can potentially be traded. So Vietnam imports Chinese honey (perhaps for domestic consumption, perhaps not.....) and exports Vietnamese honey. Quite legal. The high prices at present are a result of the two largest exporters (China and Argentina) being excluded from one or more of the largest markets, EU (Germany) USA and Japan. On the export side China exports 85,000 tonnes average Argentina has been increasing hives rapidly (at US $1,000 PMT Selling price) and now has 2.8 million hives. Their average production in the past has been around 33.5 kilos/hive, i.e. a potential *average* of around 94,000 tonnes most of which is exported. These two potentially contribute around 70% of World Trade. In the Import side, EU imports around 120,000 tonnes US 60,000 tonnes (was climbing with a 80,000 year) Japan 40,000 tonnes. Exclude any one of these exporting countries from a major market and trade will take a while to find needed supplies. You don't just ring up someone in Russia or Ukraine and replace the Chinese crop overnight. The honey is there and the trade can happen (mostly quite legally) but these things take time. The most important thing to remember is that this situation is not because there is not enough honey in the World. It is because there are technical barriers preventing current producers getting their products to their traditional markets. In fact the record high prices are depressing consumption and increasing production along with encouraging the illicit use of HFCS to cut honey (high return, low risk = greater incentive) which increases supply. The very trade Jim points to as "suspicious" is precisely what one would expect from the market trying to balance the situation created by the technical trade difficulties. Enjoy the high prices while they last. But don't spend the money just yet. A low price backlash is inevitable when it all sorts out and we find there is less consumption from lost markets, a lot of stocks, and increased production stimulated from the high prices. That money will be needed to weather an extended period of (perhaps very) low prices such as those that followed the 1986 100,000 tonne US stockpile being "released" to the market. Regards, Peter Bray Thinking orderly marketing is better than boom bust cycles. _________________________________________________________ Airborne Honey Ltd., Pennington St, PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 http://www.airborne.co.nz peter@airborne.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:26:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: elyse & joe sheppard Subject: novice with questions buying equip. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I am going into beekeeping, probably more from a hobby view point for my fruit trees then a business. I have an opportunity to buy a honey extractor for 250.00. I don't know yet if it is a 15 gal or 30 gal. Is this good? Should I wait? Thanks, Elyse ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:01:04 +0000 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Re: Honey Prices in general MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looking back over a period of time, is it not logical to ask the following: Is it the amount of honey present on the market that has tended to keep prices depressed? or, Is it the amount of fraudulent material on the market, successfully sold to relatively unsuspecting customers that has tended to keep the prices depressed? Peter ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:18:01 -0500 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: BATTLE Subject: Re: US Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter, who exports more honey than I harvest, said: > The very trade Jim points to as "suspicious" is precisely what one would > expect from the market trying to balance the situation created by the > technical trade difficulties. I'm sorry, I guess I should have been more clear about what one with "suspicions" might want to do. The only reaction I would expect would be to take some samples and test for chlorampenicol and a few other items. jim ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:57:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: woodpeckers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=6917859&BRD=1389&PAG=461&dept_id=1 61952&rfi=6 here's the army's contribution to woodpeckers. By the way, has anyone else every seen a woodpecker eating live bees? Either we have one smart Woody (picking off bees from the cluster in cold weather), OR something else is killing the bees and Woody's cleaning up after. We've had woodpeckers try to break into an overwintering shed - my guess, they could smell the bees inside since the hole in the wall was by a vent. Cheers Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:02:38 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: US Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter said; >This is surely the market acting as just that - a market. Someone can't >supply, someone else can...... Organization: Home Subject: Confusion in following mails MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Tom, Dick, Harry and any other friend, May I suggest that to reduce the potential for confusion - where mails respond to a particular individual, that the author indicates who they are referring to: There are several mails doing the round starting with "Dear Peter" or a similar start point! I have no personal worry about being confused with others having the same first name as myself - but as responses increase, it may be confusing who is responding to who, without backtracking. Esp. as their mails tend to be more pertinent than my efforts!! Regards and Ta! Peter, Pedro and Pierre. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:00:55 +1300 Reply-To: peter@airborne.co.nz Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Bray Organization: Airborne Honey Ltd. Subject: Re: Honey Prices in general In-Reply-To: <3E480500.B49799B4@club-internet.fr> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Looking back over a period of time, is it not logical to ask the following: Is > it the amount of honey present on the market that has tended to keep prices > depressed? or, Is it the amount of fraudulent material on the market, > successfully sold to relatively unsuspecting customers that has tended to keep > the prices depressed? Yes to both. At any time there are producers entering and producers leaving the honey industry. Argentina has doubled hive numbers in the last 10 years (from 1.4 million to 2.8 million hives), presumably because it is profitable given their set of circumstances there. Their selling price has been around US$0.45/lb landed destination port (CFR). At the same time the US hive numbers have continued a slow decrease that has been happening as long back as my stats go (1961), presumably because circumstances there make beekeeping less profitable. see www.airborne.co.nz/wldstats.html for some visual trends of some of the major World honey producers. More adulteration (assuming it applies cheaper "product" onto the market) just adds pressure to this system, but is not the cause of lower prices. The key issues with honey production are cost of labour, production per hive, and selling price per kilo/lb. US honey production is a victim of the USA's success as a technologically advanced nation. i.e. the cost of labour makes it uncompetitive. The greatest long term hope for honey prices World wide is for more World consumption. If China's consumption was the same as New Zealand's (1.8 kilos per person) they would consume nearly twice total World production. China only consumes around 100gms per person at present. Producing and Marketing quality honey to the increasingly affluent Chinese consumer could have a profound effect on World honey prices in a relatively short period. Ditto India. Lurching from one CVD inspired windfall to another is not unlike a drug addict living for the next "high". Current high prices in the World will end up sending the wrong signals to the wrong people and result in extended and increased pain in the long run. IMHO. Regards, Peter Bray _________________________________________________________ Airborne Honey Ltd., Pennington St, PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 http://www.airborne.co.nz peter@airborne.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:25:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Basswood sections Considering the scarcity of supplies, Aaron asked "I must admit that I am quite surprized by this. I could speculate that the suppliers have decided that wooden sections are going by the wayside. Could this be so? Are we witnessing the end to an era?" As someone who knows a fair amount about comb honey production in the US, I am only surprised that Aaron was surprised. 20 years ago there were at least six manufacturers of the basswood equipment. For definitely the past 5 years, and I think longer, there has only been one manufacturer. the rest were done in by the popularity of the round sections, now known as Ross Rounds. The demise of the basswood sections has not been for lack of consumer demand, but due to the ease of production with round sections. A moderately skilled beekeeper should get 85% or better 'perfect' sections when using Ross Rounds, while 60% would be an excellent yield with the basswood sections. The primary difference in the yields is because the basswood sections are rectangular, with 90 degree angles for the corners. The round sections are, well, round. There are no 90 degree angles in nature, and it was hell to get the bees to fill basswood sections. They readily fill the round sections. The round sections offered the following additional advantages: 1. A super may be put together in less than 10 minutes, compared to twice that long for a basswood super. 2. The basswood provided a great surface for bees to propolize, and that was so unsightly that it had to be removed before sale. It was not uncommon to spend 5 minutes on each section just to remove propolis. 3. The 'cardboard/cellophane' container for the basswood sections was constantly damaged by prying fingers while on the store shelf. The round sections are sold in clear, hard plastic containers. All in all, beekeepers just abandoned the product when a superior product came along. Implicit in those decisions was a judgment that they could not sell basswood sections at a sufficient premium to make the beekeeper's return as profitable as round sections. If my information is correct, today's sole manufacturer of basswood sections only puts the equipment in production once over five years. The remaining time it sits there idle. Moreover, their last production run (intended to last five years) was only equal to a single year sales of round sections! Basswood sections can be ordered from Draper (as mentioned by Aaron), Kelley, and a few of the small suppliers of beekeeping equipment. Hogg sections, also mentioned by Aaron, are available from Dadant, Mann Lake, and perhaps one or two others. Ross Round equipment is available from all major dealers and many of the small dealers. Comb honey production today is no where near what it was in the early 1800's, before the extractor was developed. In those days, it was not uncommon to fill railroad cars and barges with basswood sections and send them to New York for consumption or shipment to Europe. Indeed, in many countries comb honey production has vanished. We are fortunate that round sections were developed and made generally available. As a result, I am confident and gratified that comb honey production in the US increases every year. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, manufacturer of comb honey equipment for beekeepers and Sundance pollen traps. http://www.rossrounds.com Lloyd@rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:34:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Purchase of honey extractor Elyse, who is a wannabee beekeeper, asks about buying an extractor. My advice...don't do it. First, they are not 'measured' by gallon, but by the number of frames they hold. Then there are the questions about motorized vs. manual, stainless vs. galvanized, etc. I suggest you first become a beekeeper. Join a club, if possible. Do they have an extractor you can borrow? Call the county extension service and get the name of a good beekeeper near you. Try to get one who has more than 50 hives. She will know what she is doing, but if you hook up with a guy with 10 hives he may be all testosterone and no knowledge. Such a beekeeper (more than 50 hives) will often let you use their extractor, or lend you one that is kept as a spare. Best idea of all, produce only comb honey for a couple of year. That will teach you beekeeping, and avoid another expenditure. Who knows, for a reason you can't imagine you may find you don't like beekeeping, and then you will have one less piece of equipment to sell. Best of luck, and if you are in the upstate NY area let me know, off line. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, manufacturer of comb honey equipment for beekeepers and Sundance pollen traps. http://www.rossrounds.com Lloyd@rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:55:53 +0100 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jan Tempelman Subject: honey_chloramphenicol MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit anybody know where the 4 containers, with chloramphenicol honey in Texas come from???? -- Met vriendelijke groet, Jan Jan Tempelman Annie Romein-Verschoorpad 2-4 NL 4103 VE Culemborg tel.:0345-524433 mobile: 06 10719917 -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 16:02:49 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Re: novice with questions buying equip. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Extractors are normally sized as to the number of frames to fill the unit one time, ie. 2, 3, 4, 9, and so on. Are there any beekeepers associations in your area? Call your county agent and see, call them and they may have one to use until you get started and find more about what you need. Lionel North Alabama ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 00:05:59 +0000 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Re: Honey Prices in general MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Bray stated: "Current high prices in the World will end up sending the wrong signals to the wrong people and result in extended and increased pain in the long run. IMHO." This then suggests that: Current high prices in the World will end up sending the right signals to the right people and result in extended and decreased pain in the long run. AND are not the right people those that should be ensuring that agreed standards of honey are arriving onto the market! May I now suggest that: the term "high prices" should be replaced with " realistic prices" Over the medium term, beekeepers in regions, countries who at present apply technical short cuts to maintain health in bee colonies will "see" increases in their labour costs - this being due to increased time spent with IPM and the like. These producers will respond to the market if they really wish to supply it, with acceptable material. I suggest that sub-standard material is present on the market due to one major reason - that is, it is considered possible to pass such material on to the consumer. In this day and age - this requires the complicity of the packers! They have the ability to test, accept or reject honey. It has been suggested that voluntary procedures or regulations in the near future will ensure complete tractability of honey taken by packers from producing beekeepers in countries/economic blocks such as US, Canada, E.U. etc. Without this record keeping and proof of such, sellers of honey originating in these areas will not find buyers. Fine, in total accord with this stance; but then the imposing authorities will have to prove that ALL material coming into such markets reaches the same standard. To ensure this takes place may require beekeeping groups to buy in controlled conditions honey present on supermarket shelves. It then being tested and any problem material being highlighted as such in the public domain. Industrial honey will need to be tightly controlled by the relevant bodies - and again if need by pressurised into doing so. No doubt, honey from so called developing countries will continue to be less expensive to deliver - but at least the traded materials will be equivalent in the domain of minimum standards. Try and place a substandard vehicle onto the market - the resulting "noise" is understandable, is it not! Well, lets protect our produce in the same manner - ensure that substandard honey arriving on to the market is rejected as "unsafe". Please remember that it is not just a problem afflicting US producers, it is not easy elsewhere! During relatively recent debates on what and how honey was to be defined, and consequently how it could be prepared for the market, exposed a gulf between producers and conditioners. The latter insisted on the removal of evidence that allowed for tractability in honey. i.e. the filtering out of such materials as pollen - to ensure so called ability to produce "bright honey". The problem is that this allows for manipulation in the final bottled material. This type of material is "demanded by the customer" - so we are told (continuously!) Equivalent arguments were used by the mass brewers in Britain during the early '70's - who were at the time attempting to sell a standardised carbonated brown liquid - they had to change tack once the clientele became educated! Moral of mail: It is our role to educate customers so that they are aware of what constitutes real honey! It is the role of the regulating authorities to ensure that these customers are protected from false and adulterated honey! Both require that it is sold at a realistic price! Peter le simplistique! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 00:27:02 +0000 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Conference details for European Professional Beekeepers Association, Austria. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit European Professional Beekeepers’ Association Conference, Austria 2003 Saturday 22nd and Sunday 23rd of February 2003 In Graz, Raiffeisenhof, Krottendorferstraße 81 Austria Conference Language - ENGLISH Preliminary programme Saturday, Feb.22nd 2003 9.00 Opening ceremony. 9.10 Rationalisation of workflow in the extracting room, new trends in beekeeping technology, video on the extracting cycle speaker: Karl-Rainer Koch (secretary of EPBA, editorial journalist of EDAPI and IT, Germany). 9.40 Honey and quality control, considering practical beekeeping experiences, production, purity, pollen analysis and residues of all kinds speaker: Harald Rußmann (honey analyst, Handels und Umweltschutzlaboratorium, W-E-J, Germany). 11.10 Problems with the quality of the honey caused by antibiotics – residues, the situation of the honey in the world market and the trend of the development concerning residues. speaker: Dr. C.Lüllmann (institute for honey analysis QSI GmbH, Germany). 12.10 Discussion with the speakers. 14.30 New possibilities of capital investment grants for the beekeepers (aids according to EU-RL 1221/97) speaker: Dipl. Ing. S. Chlan (BM f. L.u.F., U.u.W.). 15.10. Intoxication of the bees and consideration of the actual problems concerning bee-protection and pest management and the examination results. speaker: Dr. D. Brasse (Biolog. Bundesanstalt f. L. u. F., Inst. F. Pflanzenschutz i. Ackerbau u. Grünland, Germany). 16.10 Imidacloprid research project and its results. speaker: Dr. Chr. Wurm (OEIB). 17.10 Discussion with the speakers. 17.30.Breeders of all bee races (Buckfast – Carnica – Primorski and others) work on the project “varroa tolerance breed” experiences, results and perspectives of this project. speaker: P. Jungels (professional beekeeper, Lux) 18.30 Discussion Sunday, Feb. 23rd 2003. 9.00 Operating mode of a modern professional apiculture with the Buckfast race, demonstration of picture based data and report of the experience. speaker: J. Guth (professional beekeeper, Lux). 11.00 Operating mode of a modern professional apiculture with the Carnica race, demonstration of picture based data speaker: J. Zach (ÖEIB). 13.00 Discussion with the speakers. 15.00 General Assembly of the ÖEIB API – EXPO – OEIB In the corridors and halls of the Raiffeisenhof there is an expo. of publishing material, beekeeping equipment (professional extractors, filling machines, inseminating apparatus,..) hivres, bee products, software for beekeepers,… of exhibitors from Austria, Germany, France, Italy, Finland, .. Fees for the conference: Contact Harald Singer. for hotel reservations please contact the Raiffeisenhof Tel. 0316/8050-7111 for the exhibitors’ registration and organisational questions please contact the president Mag. Harald Singer, A-8634 Aschbach 5 oder A-2500 Baden, Erzh. Isabellestr. 26, Tel 03884/550 e-mail: singer.harald@aon.at ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 16:45:44 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "adrian m. wenner" Subject: Smoke and bees Comments: cc: phwells@earthlink.net In-Reply-To: <004401c2d00b$00879b60$94342fca@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Trevor Weatherhead wrote (in part): >Most logical is that smoke disrupts the pheromone communication >within the hive by the bees. But then we use all sorts of fuel in >our smokers so it would seem that it does not matter what the source >of the smoke is but that it is smoke. So can we use something that >will stir the bees up enough so as to overcome the disruptive nature >of the pheromone communication? I think Trevor has a more likely explanation than the postings on the subject that followed his. In that connection, some might find the following items interesting. 1) In 1950 A Mr. A.L. Casey published a short note ("Conditioned behaviour in bees") in the AUSTRALASIAN BEEKEEPER. After repeated visits to feed his colonies, he noticed that the bees paid more attention to his smoker than to the feeder --- even when he put the smoker under a bush. He concluded that the bees had become conditioned; that is, smoke meant "feeding time." 2) We had independently stumbled onto the fact that bees could be conditioned in a similar manner and conducted a series of studies of that behavior, as covered in the following publications: 1966 Wenner, A.M. and D.L. Johnson. Simple conditioning in honey bees. Animal Behaviour. 14:149-155. 1966 Johnson, D.L. and A.M. Wenner. A relationship between conditioning and communication in honey bees. Animal Behaviour. 14:261-265. While conducting our studies, we chanced upon Casey's note and used smoke as a conditioning stimulus in some of our experiments. We wrote (in small part): "In the first series of trials, smoke, furnished just prior to addition of sugar solution, caused the bees in the enclosure to return to the hive. However, after eight trials (over a 2 day period), the bees reversed this behavioral pattern and began to accumulate at the dish following injection of smoke into the system [before we provided sugar solution]." We covered this topic quite thoroughly in Chapter 7 of our 1990 Columbia Univ. Press volume (ANATOMY OF A CONTROVERSY: The Question of a "Language" Among Bees). 3) Any strong chemical could well disrupt honey bee defensive behavior; perhaps that is why smoke works so well. (I also found smoke worked for me with yellow jacket wasp colonies --- but don't try it on my account.) An old Russian beekeeper emigre told me that beekeepers in that country (formerly) regularly rubbed clove oil on their hands and arms before working colonies. I tried that method. It worked for me. Though expensive, one can dilute clove oil with ethanol (how about vodka?). Hope all that helps. Adrian -- Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home office phone) 967 Garcia Road wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara, CA 93103 www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm **************************************************************************** * * "T'is the majority [...that] prevails. Assent, and you are sane * Demur, you're straightway dangerous, and handled with a chain." * * Emily Dickinson, 1862 * **************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:08:30 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Medhat Nasr, Ph. D." Subject: Re: beekeeping for the future workshop, Edmonton, Alberta Feb-20-21, 03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" BEEKEEPING FOR THE FUTURE: IPM WITH EMPHASIS ON BEE GENETICS February 20-21, 2003 Dear Bee-L members: Beekeeping is changing. Alternatives for disease and parasites management are limited. Actions are required. To become a confident, knowledgeable beekeeper, attend the most exciting workshop. Beekeeping for the Future: IPM with Emphasis on Bee Genetics Organized by: Alberta Agriculture, Food, and Rural Development and Alberta Beekeepers Association. February 20, 2003: Dr. Lloyd Dosdall: IPM Concept, Economics and Use in Agriculture: Dr. Steve Pernal: Pesticides and Antibiotics Use in Bee Colonies: Efficacy, Safety and Development of Resistance. Dr. Jeff Harris. Pirmorsky Russian Bees and Control of Varroa. Adony Melathopoulos, Dr. Steve Pernal and Dr. Medhat Nasr. Hands on Diagnoses of Diseases, Monitoring Mite Population, Use of Formic Pads, Safety of Handling Pesticides, and Testing for Apistan Resistance. Dr. Medhat Nasr: Basics of Honey Bee Genetics and Breeding: Sue Cobey: Colony Evaluation and Selection for Use in Breeding Programs. Evening: Special Program 7:30-9:00 Sue Cobey: Video on Instrumental Insemination of Queens. Update of US National Meetings and Open Discussion: Walter Dahmer and Allen Dick. (Joint meeting with Edmonton and District Beekeepers Association). Friday February 21, 2003 Dr. Jeff Harris: Implementation of Mite Resistant Stocks in Bee Operations: Dr. Medhat Nasr: Step by Step of a Practical Honey Bee Breeding Program for Beekeepers. Dr. Jeff Harris: Slow Mite Reproduction for Varroa Control. Sue Cobey: Bees, Queen Rearing and Production of Quality Queens. Sue Cobey: New World Carniolans. Northern Queen Breeders Profiles and Panel Discussion: John Pedersen, Liz Huxter, Gilbert Wolfe, Denis McKenna, Elmer Zumwalt and others. Dr. Medhat Nasr: Emerging IPM Strategy in Bee World. Two-day At-the-door Registration and lunch both days: $150. Make cheques payable to: Alberta Beekeeping Association, 11434 168 Street Edmonton AB T5M 3T9 Location:Executive Royal Inn, West Edmonton,10010 178 Street Edmonton AB T5S 1T3 Phone: 780.484.6000 Toll Free 1.800.661.4879 Room Rates: $79 and mention ABA when booking. For More Information Call: Gertie Aidair 1-780-489-6949 Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Pest Risk Management Unit Crop Diversification Centre North RR 6, 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5B 4K3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:41:09 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: regulation of honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter D. said: It is the role of the regulating authorities to ensure that these customers are protected from false and adulterated honey! The regulating authorities in the U.S. act on a complaint basis. When there are not complaints packers can get away with many things. When the focus of the FDA is on honey then the situation is different. Many health departments do the same. We had a local packer (now out of business) which whenever he saw a new beekeepers honey on a shelf in a store he was in would call the health department and say he bought a jar of the new beekeepers honey and found a dead bug in the jar. Health departments will not tell you the name of the person making the complaint. The health department went immediately to check on the problem and if the new beekeeper did not process in the proper environment his honey was pulled from store shelves till he did comply. If the new beekeeper was processing in his kitchen it might take months and quite a bit of money to comply! Bob ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 01:35:37 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Selkie Lass Subject: Re: feeding bees leftover icing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Let me share my own experience with feeding bees Icing Last Spring I checked a hive in my parents back yard early last spring, not expecting to find anything of interest. To my horror, the bees were up under the inner lid, and spreading wide- they had almost not stores left at all. I had to face the fact that I was not going to be able to make up fondant till the following wekend, and I had been less than happy with feeding dry sugar, so I decided to try giving them a couple cans of store brand vanilla icing that I had handy. I spread the icing onto two sheets of wax paper, patty stlye, and gently set the wax paper downon top of the cluster, giving the bees on top of the frames a chance to move out of the way. (Thank goodness for warm days!) When I came back mid week, the bees had eaten nearly all the Icing, SoI gave them two more one pound cans. I came back with fondant the following wekend, the bees had consumed quite a bit of the second batch, and chewed away of most of the wax paper. The previously lethargic cluster was much livlier too. I gave them fondant for the remainder of the winter, but from what I could tell, the Icing was just the thing to get them though the emergency. They were able to consume it much faster than dry sugar, and the vegetable oils may have done them some good- I didn't, in any case, see any symptoms of problems from the Icing- no dysentery to speak of, and the hive came thru very very strong- It threw at least two swarms despite having a split taken off of it in early May, much to may dismay. (I caught one swarm in my trap, lost one, and ended up recombining the split with the mother hive.) The bees were/are Texas Buckfast, and the second generation bees have been gentle so far, but the hive is is fairly Isolated for breeding purposes- It's in an urban subdivision, and I know of no other beekeepers for several miles. I still plan on requeening this spring- I can't risk testy bees where these are, and I don't want to risk the location- It is my only location where I get a super or two of a spearminty tasting honey that I suspect is basswood. (June flow- does that sound right?) Ellen In Michigan --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:18:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Smoke and bees Greetings Adrian posted some interesting observations on the action of smoke and other strong chemicals on bees. I hope someday someone will adequately explain the mechanisms involved. I certainly do *not* buy the suggestion that bees, when smoked, "think" their hive is on fire and are filling up on honey before leaving. Furthermore, I too have used strong odors as smoke substitutes, specifically pepperment oil mixed with water in a mister. It's OK. Unfortunately, I never found anything that works as well as the good ole bee smoker. Finally, I suppose it is one of those things where you don't really need to know *why* it works, to use it. I will say, though, I wouldn't want to have to work bees on a regular basis without a smoker in good working order and a supply of dry fuel. pb :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:59:18 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Basswood square section comb equipment/gizmo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Peter Borst said... > Walter T Kelley still offers complete wooden section supers including > replacement sections, holders, springs, the metal gizmo for inserting the > foundation and finally, the cardboard cartons with the cellophane window. I've had a go at their site, I found round section items, but I can't find the items mentioned... I am interested in the 'metal gizmo for inserting the foundation'... Which is something that I have not come across, can anyone give any pointers or a description? Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:09:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Basswood square section comb equipment/gizmo Dave writes: I am interested in the 'metal gizmo for inserting the foundation'... Which is something that I have not come across, can anyone give any pointers or a description? reply: You should order a copy of their catalog, all this stuff is there. However, I will describe the "gizmo". Assuming you are using wooden sections to make comb honey, and assuming you are using split sections: You put four sections in the holder, and position this gizmo along the split edge. It holds all four sections open while you drop the sheet of wax through the slot in the metal thing. Inserting a sheet of wax into four split sections simultaneously *any other way* would be a chore. If you are using unsplit sections this gadget is of no use at all. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:33:25 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Smoke and bees In-Reply-To: <200302111218.h1BCIjl4017161@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All: Our bi-directional bee counters have shown that within 2 minutes of being smoked, the outgoing bees stop going out. No apparent effect on incoming bees, except that the colony tends to stay at a lower overall level of activity for a long time after being smoked -- sometimes as long as a day. Note, I said lower, not inactive. Also, during the heavy fires in Montana a couple of years ago, when the smoke was so thick we could hardly see the hives, whole yards of bees stopped working. Bees would fly around the yard, but stayed close to the hive. Just like their human counter-parts who stayed home just in case the wind changed and brought the fires toward their homes. We had major fires in all five connecting valleys, so even when the wind shifted, the hives were soon engulfed in smoke from another fire. None of these fires were closer than 20 miles, but even the people in their homes tended to panic when the smoke got particularly thick. As per Peter's comment about not believing bees go down to get honey, just watch the bees when you lift the cover and smoke them. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:25:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dale Russell Subject: Re: Swam trap Comments: To: Edward Heinlein Hi Ed, Can you give us some Brands, Manufacturer, Size, & etc. of the swarm trap that you bought at the nursery? Dale in S.E. Ks :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 09:37:41 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Basswood honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ellen said: It is my only location where I get a super or two of a spearminty tasting honey that I suspect is basswood. (June flow- does that sound right?) According to John Lovell from his book "Honey Plants of North America" Basswood (Tilia Americana) at one time furnished more white honey than any other honey plant in the U.S. except for Alfalfa and white clover (pg.67). Due to logging many large areas of Basswood have been reduced dramatically since the 1920's. There still are areas of Basswood trees in the Midwest but most beekeepers report (like Ellen) the Basswood honey has distinct minty taste. It is my opinion that another plant blooming at the same time adds the distinct flavoring our area. Possibly a wild mint. John Lovell: "Honey extracted before it is sealed over has a rather strong flavor; but when sealed and fully ripened in the hive it is considered one of the best table honeys" Frank Pellett from his book "American Honey Plants"(pg.52) "The honey is white in color, with a rather strong flavor, but is usually regarded as high quality" A south Missouri packer will not buy principal source Basswood honey as the honey looks exactly like our premium white Clover honey and many consumers expecting Clover flavor are disappointed even to the point of calling his office to complain. He now sells the Basswood only as a Varity honey or uses the Basswood as a blend (white color) but he told me personally it takes quite a bit of blend to get the Basswood not to still have the strong flavor. I only speak for our Midwest area Basswood and the situation may be entirely different in your area of the planet. Once you recognize the flavor of principal source Midwest Basswood you can spot the honey ,often times sold as "Clover honey". Black Locust honey is often sold as Clover honey in our area. Basswood, Clover, Soybean and Black Locust honey are often sold in our area under the "Blue Vine" label. Although "Blue Vine" makes an excellent specialty honey Blue Vine forage is getting very scarce and not dependable. One of the largest producers of Blue Vine honey in our area moved a hundred hives into a blooming Blue Vine area about five years ago only to return a few weeks later to find starving hives and no Blue vine honey in the supers. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:17:21 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Basswood square section comb equipment/gizmo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter & all Thank you for your explanation... I now understand why I have not remembered it, I have come across it before, but it is not appropriate to our methods. In UK we use sections that are only split on one of the four sides, they are 4 1/4" (107 mm) square and in any case my section racks ( I gather that they are called section boxes in USA) take only three in a row, even though our hives are 460 mm square and can accomodate four in a row. By using rows of three we get a smaller number of poorly filled sections... If we do use four in a row it often occurs that the outer two are not as well filled or filled right across. The 'spare' space incorporates beespace passageways at the sides as per Killion. I have used both wooden sections and Ross Rounds (although I had to make some fancy boxes to hold the plastic frames). I have also often used hanging section frames in ordinary supers... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/hangsect.html There is a way that overcomes the reluctance of bees to fill the corners of square sections... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/easysections.html Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:19:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: methyl bromide and beekeeping In case you missed this. Reprinted with permission. January 30, 2003, Thursday NATIONAL DESK Bush Administration to Seek Exemptions to 2005 Ban of a Pesticide By ANDREW C. REVKIN (NYT) 1580 words The Bush administration is moving to help industries keep using a pesticide that is to be banned under an international agreement to restore the earth's protective ozone layer, several government officials say. Administration officials say they are prepared to ask that some of the pesticide users, which include farmers and golf course operators, be exempted from the ban on the pesticide, methyl bromide, called for in 2005 under the international treaty. The officials say the exemptions are justified under the treaty's language because there are no effective substitutes to methyl bromide and businesses would be harmed. But advocates for the environment say that if too many exemptions are granted, efforts to undo damage to the ozone layer will be set back by years. They said exemptions from the ban would generally undermine the agreement, the Montreal Protocol, a 15-year-old pact that is widely perceived as the most effective environmental treaty ever negotiated. The debate leaves the administration caught between the demands of the industries, the obligations of the protocol, which the United States signed, and the need to limit political damage from persistent criticism of its environmental policies. The White House has until tomorrow to decide how many exemptions to request from the international environmental body that administers the treaty, the Ozone Secretariat of the United Nations Environment Program. Fifty-six requests for exemptions have been made to the administration, totaling about 26 million pounds of methyl bromide. Senior government officials said that while no decision had been made on how many requests to submit to the United Nations committee, they saw no reason to limit the number as long as each was justified. Under a timetable set by the treaty, industrialized countries have steadily decreased use of methyl bromide since 1999 and are to end all use by 2005, except in situations where there are no effective substitutes or markets would be disrupted. The 56 applications for ''critical-use exemptions'' that have been submitted to the the Environmental Protection Agency are from agricultural groups and businesses as varied as chrysanthemum and strawberry growers, flour millers, universities, and golf-course groomers. The applications are at epa.gov/spdpublc/mbr/cue_summaries.html. A senior federal official involved with assessing the proposed exemptions said that most of the agricultural users had legitimate reasons. ''I think they have a case for needing it,'' said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. ''The Montreal Protocol has expressed in this exemption the notion that there are cases where the impact of losing the chemical is so great that they won't force the ban on people.'' Some countries plan to join the United States in seeking many exemptions, including Australia and Spain. But government officials in other countries, including Britain, said they planned to strictly limit their proposed exemptions to insure that overall use of the gas continued to fall. ''A critical use should be a critical use,'' said one European government official. The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, noted that exemptions granted for other ozone-depleting substances were extraordinarily limited. One allows continued use of banned CFC's in powering asthma inhalers. Methyl chloroform, another banned chemical, is still allowed for cleaning the O-rings on the space shuttle's booster rockets. In a related effort, the American Farm Bureau, Florida State officials and other lobbying groups wrote members of Congress this week seeking an amendment that would allow the use of methyl bromide to rise 20 percent from the amount currently permitted under federal law and the treaty. Environmental groups say the chemical needs to be banned and the treaty honored. They are pressing the White House to greatly reduce the exemption requests, pointing to some businesses that are seeking to increase, not simply maintain, their use of the chemical. ''If the Bush administration abandons the phase-out of methyl bromide, the safer alternatives will wither on the vine, and the hole in the ozone layer will keep growing,'' said David Doniger, an expert in international environmental policy at the Natural Resources Defense Council. Companies producing substitutes contend that any significant exemptions will simply delay shifts toward other methods of controlling pests. Methyl bromide is one of a variety of chemicals that are being phased out under the treaty because they break down the high-altitude veil of ozone molecules that blocks harmful ultraviolet rays. This shield had diminished significantly by the 1980's, and still disappears almost entirely over large areas of both poles in certain seasons. Scientists say that the continued reductions in the use of the ozone-depleting compounds, dominated by chlorofluorocarbons, or CFC's, should lead to restoration of the layer later in the century. Methyl bromide is a much more potent destroyer of ozone, molecule for molecule, than are CFC's, but unlike those compounds does not persist long in the air and is also much rarer. Over all, scientists have estimated it accounts for no more than 7 percent of the total erosion of the ozone layer. Once submitted, any exemptions sought by the United States and other industrialized countries will be reviewed this spring by a technical panel consisting of three dozen experts, including American government scientists. The panel will make recommendations to the Ozone Secretariat, which represents the interests of the 160 signers of the treaty, who make the final decision. . Administration officials said they were concerned that the isolation of the United States on other international issues, including the Kyoto climate treaty and the possible attack on Iraq, could result in the exemptions being rejected even if they are justified. Methyl bromide is a toxic gas that has been used since the 1960's to sterilize soils, fumigate grain-milling operations, and treat exports and imports to kill invasive pests. It kills weeds, insects, nematodes and all manner of other pests. Under the Montreal treaty, industrialized countries agreed to a 25-percent reduction below the amount used in 1991 starting in 1999; a 50-percent drop, from that level starting in 2002; a 70-percent reduction starting in 2003; and finally the 100-percent ban starting in 2005. The United States has been meeting its reduction goals set out in the treaty. (Developing countries have a 10-year delay before they must stop using the gas.) Applications from American companies include some that are very small, like that from Stroope Bee and Honey Company of Alvin, Tex., which seeks to continue using about 400 pounds of the chemical in 2005 and beyond to prevent moths from attacking honeycombs. ''I know of nothing else that will even come close to controlling the greater wax moth in stored honey combs,'' said Garland Stroope, the business owner, in his application. But they also include requests for large, and increasing, uses of the chemical. Auburn University in Alabama is seeking to use 542,408 pounds of methyl bromide a year on 1,600 acres where it plants tree seedlings, saying it has found ''no possible alternatives.'' The California Grape & Tree Fruit League, in Fresno, has submitted a request for its membership to use 1,579,500 pounds of methyl bromide annually after 2005, although its members typically used less than 650,000 pounds of the chemical in the late 1990's. In interviews, several government officials involved with compiling the applications said there are other important issues to consider when weighing the importance of the chemical to a particular business. Mexico is among countries that compete with American farmers in fruit and vegetable trade that are exempt from the methyl bromide ban for another decade, officials said. These countries also use cheap labor to clear fields of weeds that American growers clear with methyl bromide. Labor in this country is too costly for that task. ''Methyl bromide helps level the playing field,'' said a senior Department of Agriculture official. Marco Gonzalez, the executive secretary of the Montreal Protocol, said he was confident that the international review of exemptions from the methyl bromide ban would be fair and not roll back efforts to repair the ozone layer. ''The Montreal Protocol so far has been a success story and is paving the way to other conventions,'' Mr. Gonzalez said. ''We don't see any reason why progress and success should not continue.'' Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, manufacturer of comb honey equipment for beekeepers and Sundance pollen traps. http://www.rossrounds.com Lloyd@rossrounds.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:47:19 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Smoke and bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All Jerry Said... >except that the colony tends to stay at a lower overall > level of activity for a long time after being smoked > -- sometimes as long as a day. Have you any graphs of this yet, Jerry? Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Bromenshenk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:55:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: smoke and bees If anyone has any doubt about bees gorging themselves on honey after bring smoked, try one of these experiments: 1. Open a hive without smoke. Smoke the bees gently. Watch them run down between the frames. Take out a frame containing nectar. You will see lots of bees with their heads stuck in the cells. Observe closely, you will see them pumping nectar. 2. Gently smoke the front entrance of a nuc or small hive. Not hot smoke, but try to pump the bellows for 30 seconds or so. Open the hive. Take out a nectar frame and you will see the bees loading up. My understanding is that some 50% of the bees will so load up. The others are ready and willing to attack if they get excited enough. In terms of smoke, I don't know what it would take to make them abscond, and I don't want to try with my bees. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, manufacturer of comb honey equipment for beekeepers and Sundance pollen traps. http://www.rossrounds.com Lloyd@rossrounds.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:08:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Smoke and bees In-Reply-To: <011a01c2d1ed$3e28a2a0$0da42e50@davecush> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:47 PM 2/11/2003 -0000, you wrote: >Have you any graphs of this yet, Jerry? I've got the graphs, and we're eventually going to publish them somewhere. Guilty of wanting to dot all of the is. Too much to do, too little time. Bees are better organized than I. Oh, by the why, we see short-term effects of someone smoking a cigarette in front of a hive. Had to lay down the law to one of my employees who was a chain smoker. We could see from Montana when he entered yards in Maryland and trace his path through the beeyard. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 13:05:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Smoke and bees I wrote: I certainly do *not* buy the suggestion that bees, when smoked, "think" their hive is on fire and are filling up on honey before leaving. This statement was apparently misunderstood. I would hardly dispute that bees gorge themselves when smoked. I was referring to the oft repeated notion that they think their hive is on fire. You must have heard this, too? They will also gorge when the hive is disturbed, even without smoke. Banging on the side will cause bees to gorge. This may be some sort of panic reflex. pb :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:35:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Griggs Subject: Digitization of the Phillips Beekeeping Collection Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone interested in US historic books but unable to access them may be interested in this project with the goal to get rare books on-line for beekeepers to read from home computers. This project is a direct result of the EAS 2002 conference held at Cornell University. Please read on or visit the Core Historical Literature of Agriculture (CHLA) at http://chla.library.cornell.edu where the beekeeping literature will be made available. Mike EAS 2002 president Entomologist/ Support Scientist Plant Protection Research Unit USDA ARS, U.S. Plant, Soil & Nutrition Lab. Tower Road, Ithaca, NY 14853 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- Digitization of the Phillips Beekeeping Collection Albert R. Mann Library, Cornell University An exciting opportunity exists for American beekeepers to help make spectacular volumes from the E. F. Phillips Beekeeping Collection at Cornell University's Albert R. Mann Library available to the public via the World Wide Web. The Phillips Collection, inspired by Cornell's professor E. Franklin Phillips, is a major repository of information on bees and beekeeping. It is one of the three major apiculture library collections in the United States and includes several thousand volumes, many published before 1900. The Phillips Collection features many volumes from the personal library of L.L. Langstroth, who popularized the moveable frame hive. Among these are Munn's "Description of the bar-and-frame hive" (1844), Mills' "Essay on the management of bees" (1766), Gelieu's "Bee preserver" (1829) and Townley's "Practical treatise on humanity to honey bees" (1848.) Although the collection was initiated by Phillips, funds for the library's growth were supplied by beekeepers themselves with proceeds of designated hives going into the library endowment. These donations established an endowment that today continues to support new acquisitions of modern apicultural materials for the collection. In return, Phillips intended the library to be a storehouse of knowledge for the beekeeping community. Now, Mann Library hopes to harness the power of 21st century digital technology to make the Phillips collection more widely accessible to the general beekeeping and scholarly communities. The library hopes to scan some of the most important works from the Phillips collection over the next few years and make these volumes freely accessible over the Internet. Digitizing beekeeping books will cost approximately $200 per volume. Mann is accepting donations to cover these costs and help realize Phillips' vision of providing beekeepers with a useful collection of historical information on the science and art of apiculture. The Eastern Apicultural Society (EAS) has offered to donate the first $200 for digitizing Langstroth's "The Hive and Honey Bee" and will further match 1:1 up to $1000 within 2 years. Mann has a proven record of success in digitizing historical materials, as evidenced by the Core Historical Literature of Agriculture (CHLA) at http://chla.library.cornell.edu This collection currently includes almost 850 volumes that can be browsed or searched by any person who has access to an internet-connected computer. The field of apiculture is not yet well represented in the CHLA collection, but as funding becomes available, Mann will be able to mount an initial selection of works and continue to add more books as funding allows. The project would include works in the English language, published prior to 1925, so that they would be in the public domain. As has been done in previous projects, Mann staff will work with leading scholars to identify the most significant books for inclusion. To make a donation to Mann's Beekeeping Literature Online initiative, please fill out the form below and send it along with your gift to the address given. You will receive written acknowledgement of your contribution, and the support of the EAS will be recognized on Mann's CHLA website. If you have any questions or for more information on the digitization of the Phillips Beekeeping Collection, please contact Janet McCue, Director of Mann Library, at (607) 255-2285 or jam7@cornell.edu I wish to make a gift of $________________ to Mann Library's Beekeeping Literature Online initiative. Name________________________________________________ Address____________________________________ City_______________________State & Zip___________ Please makes checks payable to Cornell University. Please return check and form to the Albert R. Mann Library, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853-4301. Thank you very much for your support! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:29:12 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Import/Export of Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi: We've had lots of discussion about bringing in bees to the U.S. for New Zealand, Australia. I'd like to know what the current status is regarding export of bees from the U.S. into other countries. I'd guess we'd have to break this into three categories: Import of U.S. Queens Import of U.S. Packages of bees with a queen Import of U.S. colonies (in the hive) No doubt about the Canadian stand on this. But I saw a message that suggested that U.S. queens were sold in the U.K. Is that correct? Years ago, U.S. queen producers sold queens to South America. However, in these days of mites, small hive beetle, africanized bees, etc.-- who, if anyone, allows bees in from the U.S.? Thanks Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 20:50:26 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ron van Mierlo Subject: natural versus artificial bee environment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not having seen anything on this, I wondered if there are known behaviour, stress and in particular lifespan differences between on the one hand bees living in their 100% natural environments or on the other hand bees put to work from the artificial hives that we force on to them? Ron van Mierlo Sweden :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 16:17:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: TxBeeFarmer Organization: The Little ~ Coldiron Farm Subject: Re: woodpeckers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know this may seem odd to a lot of people, but birds, yes woodpeckers too, can't smell. There are many many wives tales about not touching a nest or the mother will abandon it etc...., but not true. Woodpeckers either see or hear the insects they go after. Just my two cents. West Texas Mark Jerry wrote: We've had woodpeckers try to break into an overwintering shed - my guess, they could smell the bees inside since the hole in the wall was by a vent. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 15:40:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Bogansky,Ronald J." Subject: 8 frame MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all, I noticed that at least one supplier (Brushy Mt.) has started selling 8 frame equipment. They mention doing so because of requests. The main advantage I see is less weight to lift and carry. I am considering going to 8 frame for my honey supers because of my bad back. Although shallow supers would probably be better because everything I have is 10 frame I really dislike them at extracting time. They are noticeably lighter then a medium but require the same processing time to get less honey. I hate extracting honey. I am usually excited for the first few hundred pounds then begin to dread the work. I hold extracting right up there with weeding the garden or mowing the lawn; necessary evils with few volunteers to help. I will try this on a few colonies and see what my results are. I was wondering if there are other benefits, besides weight, for using 8 frame equipment. Also, other than incompatibility and the need for more supers to do the same job, are there any great disadvantages? Wondering if my bees are as cold as I am this winter. Ron Bogansky Kutztown, (eastern) PA, USA + :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 22:41:49 +0000 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Re: woodpeckers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Woodpeckers appear to hammer their heads against wooden objects such as tree trunks for a reason - presumably to reach juicy grubs hidden away. Presumably they do not waste energy by boring at random - but use some sense to locate the best attack point! After watching blackbirds/ thrushes on grass land (lawn) listening for worms and grubs - I again presume that woodpeckers do the same. Therefore - would it be more likely that the said birds heard that the bees were in the "tree trunk" - building. Jerry, I suggest that you wrap the said building in chicken wire to stop offending birds! Ever wishing to help. Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 15:29:46 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: woodpeckers In-Reply-To: <005501c2d152$3fa81a20$1080c641@me> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:17 PM 2/10/2003 -0600, you wrote: West Texas Mark wrote: >I know this may seem odd to a lot of people, but birds, yes woodpeckers too, >can't smell. Ouch, I stand corrected -- you are right, most birds can't smell, except vultures and a few others. My fingers typed away, brain turned off. I was thinking that I could smell the bees in our over-wintering shed, as do the mice, etc. Woodpeckers have great hearing, obviously couldn't see the bees in the shed during freezing weather. Thanks for the correction - stupid mistake. Jerry > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:43:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: 8 frame In-Reply-To: <33C3F22085C99443AB2E7AEA0FD8EA77033D7D@us0366exmp.apci.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > I am considering going to 8 frame for my honey supers because of my bad > back. Although shallow supers would probably be better because > everything I have is 10 frame > I was wondering if there are other benefits, besides weight, for using > 8 frame equipment. The bees will fill the 8-frame supers...wall to wall because they are narrower than the 10-frame below. Was it Morse who suggested making comb honey this way? Having an 8-frame section super above a 10-frame hive? > > incompatibility... > > This is a real problem. Certainly one to consider. How will you fill > the open spaces on the sides? I believe the above comb honey plan had > some kind of special rim. I had a bunch of 8-frame supers that I used on > 10-frame equipment. I used duct tape to close the openings. After a few > years I got so tired of the hassle that I got rid of them all. Mike > > > > > > > > > >+ > >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", >but any topic can be reviewed by searching >the archives. The archives are the FAQ! >BEE-L archives can be searched at: > http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:10:35 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Fielder Subject: Re: woodpeckers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/11/03 6:28:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, pdillon@CLUB-INTERNET.FR writes: > After watching blackbirds/ thrushes on grass land (lawn) listening for worms > and grubs - I again > presume that woodpeckers do the same. > I have read that thrushes "hear" the earthworms with their feet! I suppose it's actually feeling the vibration, which is actually what our ears do isn't it? I also read that woodpeckers listen to the grub inside a trunk. Then their seemingly random rapping on the trunk disturbed the grub whose resultant movement then locates their whereabouts to the bird. Some time ago I was clearing a stand of rotting elm trees. By this time the small twigs were gone and I could find large 3/8 inch to 1/2 inch wide white grubs an inch or more long. By rapping on the trunk and putting my ear close I think I heard them. I was listening for a rustle but what I heard was more of a crunch which I then reasoned was their gnawing their way through the rotten wood. Thus I tend to believe that the birds hear or feel the grubs presence and woodpeckers stimulate the grubs' response by rapping at various places until they zero in. I know that rapping on a hive does cause the bees to move and create a buzzing noise which I am sure the birds become aware of. Someone asked if anyone had seen a woodpecker eat bees. I have not, but an old beekeeper who sold me his hives in the early eighties told me that he was once troubled with woodpeckers. He said that once inside his hive they would eat the grub. He showed me old combs he said the woodpeckers had destroyed. Their centres were missing, looking much like mouse damage to me, being only familiar with the latter. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:16:06 -0500 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: BATTLE Subject: Re: Smoke and bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a much more simple view of the effect of smoke on bees. It's "tear gas". Bees have very sensitive odor-detection gear, and smoke simply overloads their ability to smell anything but the smoke. It seems to irritate them, just as tear gas will "irritate" a crowd of protestors or rioters. Like protestors, the bees fall back, and try to get away from the smoke. To me, the slightly louder and changed pitch of the "hum" of the colony of the bees when they are smoked is clear proof that they are not happy about being smoked. The different sound is a prompt for me to cease smoking the hive, and wait a minute to let the bees "adjust" before working the hive. Yes, the "load up on nectar" reaction is a reaction to smoke, but, as Peter pointed out, bees will "load up on nectar" in reaction to a wide array of different "disturbances". That's why I always use smoke, but go easy on the smoke. A little goes a long way. jim (Who, due to the economic slowdown, has abandoned smoke and mirrors, and makes do with smoke alone) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 20:18:56 -0500 Reply-To: lhhubbell@johnstown.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Leland Hubbell Organization: Tekoa Subject: Re: Basswood square section comb equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It has been a while since I have used square sections, but seems like I used a clean hive tool, inserting it down into the slits in the boxes to open them, each in turn. Pressure on the holder kept them open, and the foundation slipped right in. Didn't take long. Leland :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:36:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Miller Subject: follow up on business questions I originally posted this on another forum also, so some of this might not follow logically. What I want to do is say what I learned as I drove around town today. Somebody said that I needed to get a farm ID number from Farm Bureau. Well, I had only known them to sell insurance. But I went there, they did not laugh in my face but told me to go to FSA, I think meaning the USDA Farm Service Agency. So I went there, picked up some brochures, and talked to a nice lady that told me since I did not have cropland that I could not be helped there. She did point me to the other end of the hall where our county agents are along with the 4-H people. I volunteered to teach 4-H kids this summer while waiting for an agent. The agent I talked to was more of a landscape planting guy and pointed me to someone else. This someone else helped me previously with info on restricted pesticide licensing and swarm retrieval. He also has family that earn their living in FL as beekeepers and he enjoys a good homebrew! Anyway, he got on the phone to some university people and we had a nice speaker phone chat. Here is what I learned: 1. A federal and state tax ID are required if set up as a business, likely not if you operate as sole proprietorship (per publication 225 of US Govt IRS). 2. THe US Census considers you a farmer if you earn $1,000 dollars from your farm. 3. To qualify as a farmer for IRS and receive most favored status, 2/3 of your income as to be earned from you farm. 4. You do not have to pay sales tax on wholesaled honey/farm products. 5. You do not need to pay sales tax on honey sold at the farm. 6. If > 50% of retail honey sold is off the farm (markets, job, roadside stand) then sales tax has to be paid. If this does not apply, then good record keeping was stressed. This requires a sales tax ID and quarterly payments unless the 2/3 income rule is met. 7. There was soem discussion as to what I could qualify for as far as reduced payments of tax, but is was a lengthy document that they were going to email a link to me ("North Carolina Title 8" is the note I wrote down referencing this). So I still need to talk to local building inspectors. Just thought I would share this part of my journey with everyone and continue to look forward to feedback. Joe in Greenville North Carolina USA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 22:39:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Green Subject: Maple bloom is feeding time! In-Reply-To: <20090116.214648.-223293.8.grabapawn@juno.com> Despite the coldest January and first week of February, in at least a generation, spring is easing into South Carolina. Maple starting opening this weekend, and a nice day today brought furious bee flight. I expected maple to be very late, but it's not as late as I thought. Maple bloom is the kickoff for spring, but it brings with it a danger that many beekeepers do not recognize, to their great loss. Maple nectar and pollen stimulate the queen, so brood production now gets into high gear. The actual dates vary according to your location, but southeastern and south central US generally has the problem, of which I speak, and probably many other areas as well. The problem is that, after maple, there is a severe dearth of nectar. Here in coastal SC we cannot depend on the bees to support themselves until about April 1, though it may vary a week or so with the seasons. This means that rapidly brooding bees (using a lot of their stores) can suddenly starve to death around mid-March. The saddest thing is that it won't be the sorry hives that do this, but the ones that are really strong. So maple bloom is the signal to check the bees, if you haven't already. Heft each hive. If there is ANY doubt, feed. Check again in a couple weeks. You'll be surprised how much they can eat in two weeks, when they are building fast. Feed again, as necessary, until that magical date (for your area) that they can sustain themselves. I spent the day in our worst yard (some of you know, I "retired" awhile back, but they still allow me on the premises). These were bees that spent the summer (a serious drought year here in SC) on sandy land and they went into fall looking poor, despite a round of feeding in early September. We had hoped they would pick up more from goldenrod in October, and some did. But, of 32 pallets (128 hives) there are today just an even 100 survivors. Last week I fed about a drum and a half of syrup to the yard, and today another 2 drums. More than half of the survivors are in beautiful shape, with wall-to- wall bees in two or more boxes. We usually keep them in SC in one deep brood chamber and two to four medium supers. I cleaned up the deadouts, checked for AFB (none) and put the brood box under one of the strong ones, with an extra division board feeder. This means they will not have to heat an empty box above the cluster, but they will move down into it quite rapidly when they brood up. Thus replacements for the deadouts will be simple to make up. As the season progresses to the point where I don't expect any more cold weather, I'll put the deeps on top of the strong hives, instead of underneath. I saw a few drones, and more drone brood. This winter most of the hives dropped to the lowest levels of brood I've seen in quite a few years, but they have good adult populations and the brood is now coming back fast. Some have whole frames of eggs. It's a glorious thing to be working bees in a t-shirt on a sunny spring day in Carolina! I just can't help but rub it in for those of you who would have to use snowshoes if you wanted to check your hives right now.... Dave Green, AKA Pollinator The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 20:14:51 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "adrian m. wenner" Subject: Smoke and bees In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" With regard to smoke and bees - how soon we forget. In April, 1998, Howard Scott published an excellent article in the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL on the subject, in which he outlined ten (1) possible reactions of bees to smoke that have been suggested in earlier years. Howard concluded, "As to which is the correct answer, I'm not sure..." It seems to me that Howard hit the nail on the head that time. Adrian -- Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home office phone) 967 Garcia Road wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara, CA 93103 www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm **************************************************************************** * * "T'is the majority [...that] prevails. Assent, and you are sane * Demur, you're straightway dangerous, and handled with a chain." * * Emily Dickinson, 1862 * **************************************************************************** :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 22:53:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: Basswood square section comb equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those of you with an interest in basswood sections, I thought this might be interesting. The following link will go to the Ebay page where they are selling an antique "beehive box maker." ... a basswood section maker. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2507222232&category=1217 No, I have no financial interest. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 01:46:22 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Smoke and bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrian said: In April, 1998, Howard Scott published an excellent article in the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL on the subject, in which he outlined ten possible reactions of bees to smoke that have been suggested in earlier years. Howard concluded, "As to which is the correct answer, I'm not sure..." It seems to me that Howard hit the nail on the head that time. The exceptions to the rule is what makes me ponder many of the hypothesis about the *tear gas * effect. I have seen hives ( very very very rare admited) in which smoke only upset the bees. Crack the cover and a slight puff of smoke and *in your face*. Lift the cover and smoke and still in your face. Many beekeepers may never even see one of these hives but they do exist (I believe I have seen less than five in my lifetime ). They always have produced a bumper crop of honey for me so if in a remote yard many times I will wait till seasons end of if possible or the next spring to requeen. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:52:10 -0500 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: BATTLE Subject: Re: 8 frame MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would not buy new 8-frame equipment just to get around a "weight" issue. None of us is getting older, and at some point, none of us will be able to lift even a full 8-frame or shallow super. My father is getting smart about avoiding heavy lifting as he gets older, and, like me, deploys 9-frame mediums with Stroller spacers for extracted honey. His approach to pulling a super is a creative way to deal with the "weight of a full super" problem, and should work well with any super configuration: a) He removes frames from the on-hive super 2 at a time, and puts them in an empty super that is sitting nearby on the tailgate of his truck, covering the super with an outer cover or piece of plywood between trips. b) When the super on the hive is empty, he then removes it, and slaps the breeze board on the next super down. c) He then takes the (now empty) super, and places it on the truck bed, or atop one of the other supers in the truck bed, ready to accept the next set of frames he will pull. d) He also has a cute little fold-down step-ladder attached to the tailgate of his truck, which eases the strain on his knees (his knees gave him problems until the shop cleaned out the calcified junk, and greased the bearings) e) Lather, rinse, repeat. At no time does he lift anything "heavy". Sure, it is slower, but who said pulling supers had to be a frantic race? He's retired, and can take as long as he wants. f) When done, he drives the truck to my farm, where we unload with a handtruck, and roll the supers right into the honey house for extraction. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:58:21 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Digitization of the Phillips Beekeeping Collection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI all > Please read on or visit the Core Historical Literature of Agriculture > (CHLA) at > http://chla.library.cornell.edu where the beekeeping literature will > be made available. Most commendable!, but I did not notice any beekeeping titles. Why were so many titles removed? I know they take up disk space, but any online book is a useful resource. And storage is becoming so cheap. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:11:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: 8 frame Hi Pulling the frames instead of the super is a great technique to get around the heavy lifting. I recommend this also. If your hive is not close to your vehicle, try a cart or modified wheel barrow. As far as eight frame hives go, these get too tall sooner and are not as steady as a regular hive. pb :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:16:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Garrett M Martin Subject: Re: follow up on business questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In refering to the IRS are you refering to the US goverment agency or are you refering to your state agency. This could make a difference with others of different states. For instance in my state Indiana the sales tax is a state run program. As far as I know the only US government involvement is income tax, farm programs, and enviroment protection laws. Garrett Martin Willets Lake Apiaries :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:16:05 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: 8 frame MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All Peter Borst said... > Pulling the frames instead of the super is a great technique to get around > the heavy lifting. I recommend this also. If your hive is not close to your > vehicle, try a cart or modified wheel barrow. I have done a great deal of this 'frame pulling' and on occasions I have had to walk over ground that was too rough to use a hive barrow. I used swarm collecting boxes that have stout handles to carry four or five frames in each box. by using two boxes the weight is balanced and you can carry more weight than you would in a single box. You can see illustrations of these swarm boxes on http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/swarmbox.html The swarm collecting box and standard lid are what I have mostly used for this purpose... Sorry that the Taranov box and the alternative lids are not finished yet. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:09:23 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Basswood square section comb equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larry said: The following link will go to the Ebay page where they are selling an antique "beehive box maker." ... a basswood section maker. I do not recognize the section press at the site. Maybe others will. Most section presses were of a different design. Leahy Bee supplies made the "Higginsville Section Press" and Woodsman also made a popular press. A 1935 ABC XYZ talks about a section press *with a foundation inserter* but does not show a picture. Because of the large size compared to others I have seen (an used) I believe the Ebay press had a duel purpose. In any case the Ebay section press is no older than 1857 because J.S. Harbison of California first introduced the four-piece honey section in 1857. I have got a very old section press of unknown origin. Only about eight inches long and similar but different to the Higginsville design. Mine and the ebay press could be homemade. Like Larry, I have no financial interest in the Ebay piece but realize discussion on BEE-L might spark bidding on the piece. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:08:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Digitization of the Phillips Beekeeping Collection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dave Cushman wrote: > Most commendable!, but I did not notice any beekeeping titles. > > Why were so many titles removed? It's not that so many titles were removed, it's that beekeeping titles have never been added! I'm working from memory here (always dangerous), but I think it runs an average of about $200 per book to digitize (Mike will correct me if I'm wrong). Most beekeeping books have yet to be scanned. I believe the impetus for this project is a spinoff of having the Phillips library on display at the Eastern Apicultural Society of North America, Inc. conference held at Cornell last summer. When Mike presented the project to the EAS board last fall, the first $200 was donated, with a recommendation that the digitization start with Langstroth's original manuscript (or perhaps it was the first publication of his manuscripts, which were transcribed by Langstroth's wife; Langstroth should have been a physician his handwriting was so bad!). Additionally, EAS committed to match the first $1000 donated towards the project. Who says EAS are cheap bastards!? SO if you're inclined, send you dollars! I wish to make a gift of $________________ to Mann Library's Beekeeping Literature Online initiative. Name________________________________________________ Address____________________________________ City_______________________State & Zip___________ Please makes checks payable to Cornell University. Please return check and form to the Albert R. Mann Library, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853-4301. Thank you very much for your support! Following is an excerpt from the Empire State Honey Producers Association (hosts of the EAS 2002 conference ) fall 2002 newsletter: "As Mike stated in his retrospect, one of the high points of EAS 2002 was the opportunity to view the EF Phillips rare book collection at the Mann Library. One simply cannot describe the exhilarating thrill of handling LL Langstroth's original hand written manuscripts! Wearing white cotton gloves, I was able to read Langstroth's "Eureka" moment where he wrote of his realization of "bee space". Ironically, this revelation came to him in November. What a long winter of anticipation it must have been waiting to put his idea to practical use! Unfortunately, Langstroth's handwriting was of physician caliber and most of his writings are nearly illegible. It was Langstroth's wife who deciphered the manuscripts for the first edition of Langstroth on the Hive and the Honey Bee. Also on display were original works by Moses Quinby, CC Miller and other beekeeping masters! It was truly an opportunity of a lifetime!" Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:00:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Les Roberts Subject: Call for photos In-Reply-To: <200302120501.h1C4rLmG018010@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Many of you have seen the ISBA Journal, which I publish every other month for the Indiana State Beekeepers Assn. www.HoosierBuzz.com. The cover of the magazine is a high resolution photograph of a beehive, or beekeeping practice. They're usually seasonal. We've had great photos from Ottawa Canada, Kentucky, Ohio, Georgia (and some of my own) grace the covers. And, as a non-profit who distributes the newsletter freely, we haven't been able to offer any form of payment, other than a color copy of the newsletter with full credit to the photographer, printed in the issue. I'm looking for more photographs, to grace upcoming issue covers. Because Indiana is in the midwest, photographs that include palm trees or Inuit villages are beyond our context. Photographs could also be historical in context. If you've got photographs, that are digital or scanned to the highest possible resolution and you'd be open to them being published on the cover of the ISBA Journal, drop me an e-mail to editor@HoosierBuzz.com, and you can look at the covers in the previous issues on the webpage www.HoosierBuzz.com. And, in fact, I'm looking for a collection of 14-20 of all seasons, to grace a possible calendar we're investigating producing. Again, compensation would be at least a copy of the issue or calendar. I won't make a big deal about the value of being "published." But it is nice to have your work spread around with your name on it. The way I look at it is the people who have supplied such pictures do so for the love of beekeeping and its promotion. Rob Green Editor, Publisher, ISBA Journal ccrb - www.ChristianMusicWeekly.com published weekly for Christian Radio :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:39:43 -0500 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: BATTLE Subject: Re: 8 frame MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Cushman said: > > b) When the super on the hive is empty, he then removes it, > > and slaps the breeze board on the next super down. > ... What's a breeze board? A "turbo-charged" fume board. You can make one for pocket change. It outperforms fume boards (or "acid boards") by a wide margin, works under weather conditions that make fume boards useless, and has traditionally been used by the really big beekeepers who cannot afford to waste time when pulling supers. Rather than depending solely upon the sun's heat to vaporize and disperse the repellent, it uses the force of a breeze directed through the cloth on which the repellent is sprayed. Even a slight breeze works very well. A really strong wind would prompt the beekeeper to point the air intake scoop slightly away from the direction of the wind. Since the breeze actively pushes the repellent fumes down into the super, one quickly finds that one needs much less repellent than one might use on a fume board. (Less IS more!) A description of both breeze boards and fume boards can be found here: http://www.bee-quick.com/bee-quick/use.html I first saw them for about 15 seconds when watching a video about larger beekeepers who are members of the Sioux Bee Honey co-op at a beekeeper meeting. I don't know who came up with the concept, and I have been unable to find anyone willing to admit to making the first one. I have been disappointed in the major US bee supply companies. Each were provided with a sketch at the ABF Savannah GA USA meeting, and were begged to consider making them. None have shown any intention of offering the device for sale to beekeepers who "buy" rather than "build" equipment. jim (Who makes Bee-Quick, but gives all the profits to the Eastern Apicultural Society Bee Research Fund to avoid feeling like a bourgeois capitalist pig) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:51:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Griggs Subject: Re: Digitization of the Phillips Beekeeping Collection Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron, Thanx for your eloquent and accurate answer to dave's question. I can add a bit more. After EAS, I went to the library to personally thank the collection curator and library preservation staff that made access to the rare books possible. I also had visions of trying to gain access to some of the books so I could do some reading. We were talking about status of "the vault" where all the valuable rare books are kept so as to physically protect them from theft/defacement and physical degradation by humidity--- when I got the bad news!!!! Any New York State resident can gain access---by appointment during regular business hours. Now I live close, I work on Cornell campus 1/2 mile from the library and still find this restrictive. So I started asking questions based on EF Phillips premise that the collection was for beekeepers. This lead into a discussion about digitizing, money and the WWW. At one EAS board meeting I remember that the board were discussing making a bibliography of beekeeping literature for distribution on CD or the web and how much it might cost etc. But what good is knowing a book is available in a library half way across the country? Since Cornell has the WWW infrastructure to serve up the books all they need is some money to get them on line and anyone can get to them! Basically the money will pay some student to carefully scan each book and edit the output for loading on the web. This project is good for both the Library and beekeeper. The library is using the digitization as a next logical step to preservation & distribution. Even though it is at Cornell they are not flooded with cash. The beekeeper could have ready access from personal computer or library computer to this library as intended by Phillips, if we supply some cash toward the effort. If you have any questions or would like a copy of the flier e-mail me. I could send the flier out you in PDF format--This would be a great cause for your local association with the payoff being direct access to the goods! Mike Mike Griggs Entomologist/ Support Scientist Plant Protection Research Unit USDA ARS, U.S. Plant, Soil & Nutrition Lab. Tower Road, Ithaca, NY 14853 http://www.ppru.cornell.edu/PPRU.htm phone: 607-255-1085 fax: 607-255-1132 email: mhg3@cornell.edu :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:52:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Subject: IPM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Since I often hear IPM erroneously described, I thought it might be useful to post this concise description of it. Integrated pest management (IPM) is a philosophy that promotes the collection of field-specific information to make rational pest management decisions. The goal of IPM is to limit the use/or amounts of chemical insecticides, fungicides and herbicides in situations where biological, mechanical or physiological control measures can accomplish the same results. Knowledge of the life cycle of the pest(s), of the host(s) and the interaction of environmental factors that trigger increases in pest activity and increases in host susceptibility are crucial to implementing a successful integrated pest management program. Peter Borst Ithaca NY U S A :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:01:35 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Bee Imports Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks to Peter Dillon for pointing me to COPA/COGECA I have found that the U.K. and EU ban imports of bees from all but licensed areas, and those are limited to Hawaii and the South Island of New Zealand. Can anyone tell me whether S. African allow importation of queens, live bees, or whole colonies of bees from other countries, particularly the U.S.? THanks Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:59:56 +1100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rob Rowman Subject: Bee imports Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 > Automatic digest processor wrote: > have found that the U.K. and EU ban imports of bees from all but licensed areas, and those are limited to Hawaii and the South Island of New Zealand. Can anyone tell me whether S. African allow importation of queens, live bees, or whole colonies of bees from other countries, particularly the U.S.? THanks UK, EU, and many other countries receive queen and package bees from Australia. As for S. Africa I am not aware of any exports to that country of Australian Bees. You would need to contact the relevant quarantine authority in that country to establish whether they allow entry of bees and under what protocols. Rob Bowman Apiary Inspector Sydney :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:36:23 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Bee imports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rob Bowman wrote > UK, EU, and many other countries receive queen and package bees from Australia. Let me set the record straight. At the present time, the UK has a temporary ban on the importation of live bees from Australia. We did export queen bees and packages prior to the small hive beetle find. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 07:23:08 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Blane White Subject: Re: Bee Imports Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI Everyone, Jerry B wrote in part: "I have found that the U.K. and EU ban imports of bees from all but licensed areas, and those are limited to Hawaii and the South Island of New Zealand." Interesting Jerry since some MN hygienic queens were shipped from the University of MN to France last late summer/fall. They were shipped with proper certificates and legally exported to France. France required inspection for AFB of all nucs that the queens came from and certification of absence of disease. It is my understanding that these queens didn't go to a research institute but I could be incorrect in that point is some countries allow imports of at least queens with attendants with proper certification and inspections. fwiw blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:54:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Bee Imports In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Interesting comments. I should point out that the directive that I found prohibiting live bee imports to U.K. and EU did say that bees could be shipped from one European country to another. So far, it seems that despite the sweeping statement that I found, queens may be allowed into these countries from the U.S. and other areas, with appropriate inspections, certificates, etc. COPA and COGECA are considering stronger language with regard to small hive beetle. That's consistent with Treavor's comment about a temporary ban on imports from Australia. However, so far no one has told me that the U.K. or EU will accept packages (swarms, colonies) of bees from the U.S. Only queens. So, back to Africa and South America -- what's the policy in these countries? Thanks again Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:09:27 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: bee imports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jenny, Where is the directive to be found? Can you please provide a reference = to your posting so we can all read it. Thank you. Best regards Roger White :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:20:41 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mark Spagnolo Subject: Bee imports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting conversation. I used to work at Kona Queen on the island of Hawaii and exported tens of thousands of queens all over the world. Because Hawaii was so isolated and the bees were so disease-free, there were no good excuses to keep them out of any country. Actually, what I found out is that the decision to import bees was mostly political. In many cases two neighboring countries, each not much bigger than some of the counties here in Minnesota, had very different regulations! Also, more than a few countries claimed to be open to queen imports, but placed ridiculous restrictions on incoming shipments. Examples would be fatally long quarantines and impossible paperwork. In light of the damaged caused by previous imports (both legal and illegal) into certain countries, it is easy to understand the hesitancy surrounding bee imports/exports. Individual beekeepers and queen producers also take a tremendous financial risk in transporting live queens, especially in light of current air transport issues. Dead queens are not worth much! Free trade has brought this issue alive and no one is sure how to handle it. Keep current as I think you will see some interesting developments in this area. Mark in Minnesota :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:07:09 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: fumigation for EFB In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20030121062516.00a89b10@mail.auracom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <5.1.0.14.1.20030121062516.00a89b10@mail.auracom.com>, Stan Sandler writes >Of special interest to me, was mention that glacial acetic acid fumigation >for nosema would also control EFB (again, no reference). Standard recommended treatment here in the UK is 80% acetic acid fumigation in a stack of brood chambers but we are advised by our Bee Officers it is not necessarily complete in contrast to its effectiveness with honey comb. > Would anyone have >more information, or first hand experience with this? It does seem >reasonable to me that a non spore forming bacteria should be easier to >eliminate than AFB. However, in some places EFB contaminated comb is >destroyed similarly to AFB, and some commercial beekeepers have mentioned >how quick it can spread in an operation, and I concur. And feeding back honey from EFB contaminated comb!! >Also, I would like to know if anyone has tried a method of fumigating an >entire storage building or area with glacial acetic acid (for either EFB or >nosema)? I have tractor trailer van bodies over 40 feet long filled with >supers, and it would seem to me that since they are fairly airtight when >the doors are sealed (and the doors could be taped) that this should be >possible. The high concentration of fumes would need an enormous quantity of acetic acid and corrode all your exposed metal. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:17:43 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: FW: Mite fall In-Reply-To: <5AF61A7A68D97645B968E3F6F7D069A10179D1@email.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <5AF61A7A68D97645B968E3F6F7D069A10179D1@email.albany.edu>, Aaron Morris writes >If 50 mites over 24 hours is what you find without having treated >against >varroa (natural fall out) then this is a hell of a investation. You can >propably assume that the number of mites left in the colony is abot 100 >- >200 (some scientists even suggest up to 300) times of that. Research in the UK with UK bees gave as a reasonable rule of thumb that x30 daily mite fall gives the total mite number in the main brood rearing season; x400 without brood; x100 in between. As mite numbers increase above 2500 (in a typical UK colony) the probability of colony demise increases with mite number. January in NZ is equivalent to July in the North, so we can presume about 1500 at the time of the original posting. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: BEE-L has no "Frequently Asked Questions", but any topic can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives are the FAQ! BEE-L archives can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::