From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:28:01 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.3 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP,SPF_HELO_PASS,URIBL_GREY, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D270949065 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDAZeU011456 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0303A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 106272 Lines: 2367 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 08:17:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Yoonytoons Subject: Re: Amaranth Bob, Yes. Do GOOGLE and type "Amaranth nectar." It shows about 1,200 entries. One of them is http://216.239.51.100/search? q=cache:NbbNnGCUeUwC:www.nhg.com/Images/Butterfly.pdf+Amaranth+nectar&hl=en &ie=UTF-8 Good Luck with your Double the Profit. Yoon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 10:49:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: Amaranth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, Wild amaranth (pigweed) runs rampant around my gardens when (alas) I can't keep up with the weeding. Although I can't say positively that bees are not interested in it, I don't recall ever seeing them visit it in any numbers. The plant itself is very tall and thick stemmed, with wide, heart shaped fleshy leaves, and seed stalks in late summer that are large and prolific. The seed stalks are somewhat spiny. It is edible and nutritious, but kind of bland. I've read that one can make a very good flour from the seeds. It also makes a good green manure - at least that's what I keep telling myself in consolation at the end of summer :) Regards, Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:38:03 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Amaranth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob > I have never been asked to polinate canola in > Missouri before either. Any tips on number of > hives per acre and placement. Is surplus honey > a possibility. We call Canola 'Oil Seed Rape' When we use it as a nectar source for honey production the crop will support one hive per acre. Pollination is not actually required, but will improved by bees, but the majority of the improvement will occur at much lower densities than that. The law of 'diminishing returns' sets in. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:52:26 -0000 Reply-To: max.watkins@vita-europe.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Max Watkins Subject: Re: Apiguard's efficacy proved by numerous tests In-Reply-To: <005a01c2dc9f$d5e06940$d201a8c0@Hafnis> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1257" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rimantus Zujus wrote: "Does it mean that the mite resistance to Apiguard will develop about 7 times sooner than to Apistan, having a much higher efficiency? Your opinion, please." I suspect it will take a lot longer for varroa to develop resistance to thymol because a) the selection pressure on the mites is lower [than for pyrethroids, for example] as thymol is not so widely or often used - and b) thymol has a more devastating and general action as opposed to affecting a specific neurological site. I believe it would be more difficult for mites to overcome breakdown of cell walls and proteins, as thymol is purported to do, rather than modify one nerve site or develop a detoxification process of a particular agent. If thymol were over-used resistance might be more likely to develop, eventually. IPM is the answer. This is my opinion only; maybe in a few years we'll have a clearer answer. A programme of varroa resistance monitoring in Europe, especially the potential for resistance to thymol is being undertaken by Vita (Europe) Limited. I'll report our findings in due course. Max Dr Max Watkins Vita (Europe) Limited 21/23 Wote Street Basingstoke Hampshire RG21 7NE UK Tel.: +44 (0) 1256 473177 Fax: +44 (0) 1256 473179 e-mail: max.watkins@vita-europe.com web: http://www.vita-europe.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:55:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Miller Subject: Help my back I really enjoy this as a hobby and would like to earn a living at it. I would be the principal labor. As a nurse for now, I have taken classes on how to incorporate good body mechanics and devices to help save my back from injury. My question for Bee-L readers, what systems do you employ in beekeeping to save your back from injury. How do you minimze hive manipulations? What devices do you use? Thank you, Joe. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 21:39:27 +1300 Reply-To: paul@ww.co.nz Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul D Brown Subject: Re: Help my back In-Reply-To: <200303012255.h21Mtil4020203@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Joe, Your question on 'making your back last the distance' is right on the button. I use a stand (400 x 500 mm) fitted with mattress springs. The base of the stand has a 100 mm deep 'bean bag'. The top and base are separated by 4 x 2 (8 ) mattress springs and are kept in the same plane by 4 scissor action 'guides'. The bean bag allow the 'stand' to be 'set' level on uneven ground. Sorry this is a bit difficult to explain, but the effect is that the honey boxes can be put on the stand and the stand allows them to float at a reasonable height to work on and to 'lift off'. It is made from aluminium and 'balances' my '5 frame work box' quite well when walking to the hive. Cheers Paul b. Auckland, New Zealand. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 08:14:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Help my back In-Reply-To: <200303012255.h21Mtil4020203@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >My question for Bee-L readers, what systems do you employ in beekeeping to >save your back from injury. Joe. Joe...get one of those cloth elastic belts, and wear it when doing heavy lifting and when working bent over. I hurt my lower back a few years ago...couldn't even sneeze without doubling over on the ground. Wearing a belt while working for a couple months allowed my back to heal. Now I wear it only when reversing, or taking off the crop. If I hadn't found it, I probably would have had to quit keeping bees. Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 08:59:11 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Thymol MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding thymol and other essential oils. http://www.apis.admin.ch/english/Themes/Varroa.htm and http://www.apis.admin.ch/english/pdf/Varroa/essential_oil.pdf are worthwhile reads. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 09:58:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Howard Kogan Subject: Dead Hive I live about 25 miles east of Albany, NY on the Mass. line. When I checked one of my hives this past week I discovered the cluster was dead. It seemed a classic starve out with most of the cluster stuck headfirst in the cells. This hive is in 4 medium size supers and it had two full supers of honey in the fall(the top two supers). It appears that the cluster formed all the way on the east side of the hive(the hive faces south)and it used all the honey in the eastern 3 or 4 frames in both of the upper supers and starved when there was no place higher to go. But both of the top two supers had 4 or 5 frames full of honey on the west side of the supers! Do clusters not move over to reach honey? Will they only move up? Any thoughts will be appreciated. How can this be avoided in the future? Is it possible the cluster stayed against the eastern side because it got the morning sun? This was the coldest winter in years-we had minus 20F on at least 5 nights. Howard Kogan, Stephentown, NY. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 12:11:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: Help my back MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Back-Savers: 1) Use medium-depth hive bodies instead of deep hive bodies. And/or leave one deep always on the bottom (so it is less likely to fill with honey.) 2) Make a platform to set on top of a garden cart. When boxes are lifted from the hive, they can be set on the platform on top of the cart. Much less lifting from the ground. Platform could be made from shelf wood with cleats on the bottom to keep the pieces from sliding from side to side. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@fast.net (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA 40N 75W :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 13:07:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Green Subject: Re: Dead Hive Comments: cc: holi@LOCALNET.COM In-Reply-To: <200303021458.h22EwJl4004570@listserv.albany.edu> From: Howard Kogan > Do clusters not move over to reach honey? No, Howard, bees do not move sideways in cold weather. Only upward. Generally they will organize their resources for best wintering, but it doesn't always work out. There are several additional factors to consider. 1. Was the cluster broken up into two or more clusters, or were there some bees even in the corners of the hive? When tracheal mite is real bad they seem to break cluster in winter. 2. How big was the cluster? If it was less than soccer ball-sized, there were other problems that contributed. Bees cannot self- insulate, if the cluster is too small. 3. Did you perform any late-season hive manipulations that moved the honey/pollen around from the bee's organization? Beekeepers sometimes do this. You can move frames around with impunity in the spring, but be careful of much manipulation in the fall. 4. I'm assuming you checked for foulbrood scale, which is ALWAYS a requirement for your post mortem. You should also check for varroa mite droppings (white) to get an idea if they had a high mite load. 5. Did you let the brood chamber plug up late in the season, so the queen could not raise the last cycle of brood for wintering. It is very important to go into winter with young bees. Some beekeepers remove all supers to treat for mites, without making provision for the bees to have a place to put the last flows (goldenrod, aster, etc.). The bees then stuff the brood chamber and block the queen from laying. Look at the bees in your deadout. You can tell the old from the young bees if they aren't too badly deteriorated. Are they predominantly old bees? 6. Did you have any pesticide hits last season? If so, they may have stored poisoned pollen. They may consume some of this and some bees die, then they cover the contaminated pollen with fresh, and stop dying. Later, during the winter, when they are more vulnerable, they uncover and start using the poisoned pollen. More of our wintering problems than we generally realize are attributable to stored contamination. 7. The sun on the east side might be somewhat significant. Cold winds on the west could be more so. If the cluster is undersized it becomes more important yet. I have overwintered 5 frame-nucs touching side-by-side, with entrances facing opposite. The clusters are always on the inside wall in such arrangements. Sometimes when all is said and done, you just shrug your shoulders and say, well, I just eliminated some weak genetics. Breeding from survivors is a form of selective breeding. :o) Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:22:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Janet Montgomery Subject: Re: Dead Hive MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Could one move honey frames from the outside of the wintering cluster and alternate them with the other frames in the center of the cluster? Dan Veilleux In the mountains of North Carolina :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 21:45:14 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: Help my back MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/2/2003 10:32:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, sterrett@FAST.NET writes: > 2) Make a platform to set on top of a garden cart. When boxes are lifted > from the hive, they can be set on the platform on top of the cart. Much > less > lifting from the ground. Platform could be made from shelf wood with cleats > on the bottom to keep the pieces from sliding from side to side. I use those plastic milk crates. You can stack 'em if you want to work waist high. I'm changing this year to 2 brood boxes of medium size. Kathy Cox :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 04:57:31 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Help my back MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are 2 approaches. If one is into stacking boxes then use a hive stand that brings the top bars of the bottom box to finger tip level. It is ok to examine the brood frames in the bottom box while kneeling. Have a stand (wheelbarrow perhaps) next to the hive to move boxes onto without bending the back. Alternatively think laterally. Go for a long deep hive. The Dartington model has 21 brood frames 14 x 12 and takes 4 half size supers. It is on a stand so the top bars are about waist high (depending how tall you are). The supers when full weigh no more than 16 pounds. The latest version has open mesh floors. A UK manufacturer now produces it in kit form. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 07:13:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Patterson Subject: Urgent call to Save beekeeping in Aurora, CO Comments: To: biologicalbeekeeping@yahoogroups.com, Organicbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks to the loud public outcry there may be a chance to reverse the Ban on Beekeeping in residential areas of the city of Aurora. The subject will be brought up tonight, 3/3/2003, at the City Council Meeting. The meeting will be held at Aurora City Clerk's Office 1470 S. Havana St., First Floor Aurora, CO 80012 303-739-7094 Below is a copy of the email I received from Bob Legare, the City Councilman who has supported beekeeping and voted for a favorable ordinance. Please read it completely and carefully. He is on the side of reason and rational behavior. Below that is a list of the City Council Members with their phone numbers and email addresses. Please contact them today and politely state why you feel Aurora should NOT ban beekeeping. Please contact anyone you know that can support this effort if you have the opportunity today. Hopefully you will be able to attend the Council Meeting tonight. I know it is short notice and some of you won't even see this till the meeting is over. I want to sincerely express my very deep gratitude to each of you that has helped in this matter. >To: >Subject: Fwd: to bees or not to bees >From: "Bob LeGare" >Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 19:40:45 -0700 > >Tom, >Based on the great spread of letters in the Sentinel, I'm giving this >one more shot (see attached). If a majority of council supports my >idea, beekeeping would not be banned, but would be dealt with under the >more general nuisance ordinance when a problem arises. I'll keep you >posted. >Best regards, >Bob LeGare >ps: Did you organize the letter writing? It was a great effort. > >To: ,, > , , > , , > , , > , , > >Subject: to bees or not to bees >From: "Bob LeGare" >Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 18:50:34 -0700 >Cc: "Charlie Richardson" , > , > "Nancy Freed" , > "Pamela Alford" , > "Ron Moore" > >I urge council members to read the 2 pages of letters in the February 27 >Sentinel regarding our pending ban on honey beehives in Aurora. Most of >the letters very clearly state the common sense reality of living with >honey bees, and that there are more benefits than risks associated with >hobby beekeeping. In my opinion, common sense was lacking in the 2-1 >decision that came out of Code Enforcement Policy Committee stating that >hobby honeybee keeping should be banned in Aurora. There is no history >of honey beekeeping being a problem in Aurora, but emotions overrode >reality at the Code meeting. >If there is support from 5 other council members, I will ask that honey >beekeeping be regulated by our nuisance ordinance rather than >specifically banning hobby beekeepers from Aurora. Some will say our >nuisance ordinance is not tough enough to deal with potential problems, >but I only recall one documented case on file in the history of code >department. In that case, an allergic neighbor complained, and the >hobby beekeeper voluntarily got rid of his hives. It's not too late to >put the brakes on this "if it would only save one life" ordinance that >defies common sense. Aurora City Council Ed Tauer Mayor Pro Tem At Large 1681 S. Lansing St., 80012 303-369-8980 (Residence) E-mail: etauer@ci.aurora.co.us Nadine Caldwell Ward I 2065 Florence St., 80010 303-364-2859 (Residence) E-mail: ncaldwel@ci.aurora.co.us Legal Secretary Kathy Green Ward II 17701 E. 14th Drive, 80011 303-367-1106 E-mail: kgreen@ci.aurora.co.us Manager of Small Business Ingrid Lindemann Ward III 12601 E. Cedar Ave., 80012 303-341-1735 (Residence) E-mail: ilindema@ci.aurora.co.us Retired High School German Teacher John Paroske Ward IV 14837 E. Pacific Place, 80014 303-639-3088 (Office) E-mail: jparoske@ci.aurora.co.us Certified Public Accountant and owner, John S. Paroske, P.C. Barbara Cleland Ward V 3053 S. Andes St., 80013 303-690-3661 (Residence) E-mail: bcleland@ci.aurora.co.us Community Relations Director, Aurora Community Mental Health Center Dave Williams Ward VI 16036 E. Lehigh Circle, 80013 303-693-3522 (Residence) E-mail: dwilliam@ci.aurora.co.us Broker Associate - US Home Steve Hogan At-Large 3053 S. Andes St., 80013 303-739-7015 E-mail: shogan@ci.aurora.co.us Executive Director, Northwest Parkway Public Highway Authority Edna Mosley At-Large 13827 E. Chenango Drive, 80015 303-627-2998 (Residence) E-mail: emosley@ci.aurora.co.us Retired University Administrator Bob LeGare At-Large 775 Kenton St., 80010 303-366-0113 (Residence) E-mail: blegare@ci.aurora.co.us Commercial Property Manager, Next Millennium Property Co., LLC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 09:59:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Bogansky,Ronald J." Subject: Handling Used Checkmite Strips MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all, In my previous post I discussed the handling of Checkmite. Joe Miller asked: "What about the MSDS statement about the product being gone at the time they are removed? What does this mean for handling?" Many things are considered when discussing toxicology of a substance. However the most important is the dose. Almost everything is toxic in excess. If you handle one or two strips the risk is much lower than handling hundreds. I handle the used strips the same as the new. I use pliers to pull them from the super and place them in a sealed container. Actually, the pliers grip the strip better than gloved fingers and facilitate removal. I have no information contrary to the MSDS statement about the product being gone at time of removal, I just choose to treat them otherwise. The concern I have is that someone would interpret that statement to mean it is OK to leave the strips in longer than the treatment period, assuming there is nothing left on the strip. This is something we surely do not want to do. -8 F wind chill; Is Spring ever gonna get here? Ron Bogansky Kutztown, (eastern) PA, USA + :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:54:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Garrett M Martin Subject: Re: Help my back MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While we are on the subject I might as well add my two sense here. For those who suffer from lower back injury or have a tendency for it here is my experience. I am only 26 years old. I hardly remember a day in my life that I did not have sever back pain. Been through all the tests and the specialists, countless years at chiropractors and no one could find anything. I was finally told by my family medical doctor (who interestingly enough also practices chiropractic) that he feels that my pain comes from muscular pain rather than spine related. I took his tip and pursued massage therapy. This has changed my life. I am now pain free 50% of the time and the rest is bearable on top of this I am a beekeeper as of three years ago. I will caution though it is very expensive and hard to find a real good therapist. There is allot more to say on this but it is probably not relevant to this conversation. Should anyone want to know more feel free to contact me. Garrett Martin Willets Lake Apiaries Nappanee, IN USA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:40:56 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Brenner, David" Subject: FW: [BEE-L] Amaranth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I am not on your email list, this was forwarded to me from someone on the list, since I am interested in amaranths. When grain amaranths are in flower, honey bees actively crawl through the flowers and seem to poke into the flowers. I am uncertain about what they are doing, and I have asked experts. In published descriptions amaranths are wind pollinated. I have seen no reports of nectaries in the grain amaranths (there is nectar from Amaranthus viridis flowers). There are reports of Amaranth honey being made by honey bees I wonder if the reports are wrong, or the bees know something that we don't. Amaranths can have a honey-suckle fragrance which would seem to attract bees. The bees might be gathering pollen, which is plentiful. There is a photo of amaranth honey and a research report saying that the seeds are larger after bee pollination in: S. Yue (ed.), 1993. The research and development of grain amaranth in China. Inst. of Crop Breeding and Cultivation, Chinese Acad. Agr. Sciences, Beijing. However it is in Chinese. It would be a benefit to science if someone can publish good evidence for amaranth honey. If you get evidence, please let me know and I will help you to publish it in a small journal. Or please let me know about publications. Thanks. David Brenner dbrenner@iastate.edu Plant Introduction Station phone 515-294-6786 Iowa State University fax 515-294-4880 Ames, IA 50011-1170 http://www.ars-grin.gov/nc7 USA (also the www for the 2003 Amaranth meeting) Curator of: Amaranthus, Celosia, Chenopodium, Coronilla, Dalea, Galega, Melilotus, Perilla, Spinacia, and miscellaneous Umbelliferae. In the US National Plant Germplasm System. -----Original Message----- From: Hanlin, Steve Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 11:05 AM To: Brenner, David Subject: FW: [BEE-L] Amaranth Dave: Here is an email that is presently being discussed in the information group that I belong to (beeline). I do not have an answer, so I did not comment. This is more to show you that even beekeepers are talking about your crop, you can comment either to me or to the sight if you want to. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Bob Harrison [mailto:busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM] Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 6:23 PM To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: [BEE-L] Amaranth Hello All, I contracted some hives out for polliantion of canola and seed clover today. The organic farmer asked about bees and his acres of "Amaranth". I know Amaranth is a wheat type plant and can be used for grain and the leaves are edible and sold in health food stores but I do not know if bees get nectar or pollen from the plant. I suspect not but wonder if the list has information. I could not find any information on the net about bees and amaranth but did not spend a great deal of time looking. I have never been asked to polinate canola in Missouri before either. Any tips on number of hives per acre and placement. Is surplus honey a possibility. Thanks in advance! Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:50:34 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Amaranth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello David & All, David said: When grain amaranths are in flower, honey bees actively crawl through the flowers and seem to poke into the flowers. I am uncertain about what they are doing, and I have asked experts. As a non beekeeper you might wonder. I could tell you quickly what the bees are doing and will most likely be able to after the coming season In order to learn better could you give me an idea of the time of day you observed the most activity? The time of the year and your location in Iowa? If the bees were "actively crawling through the flowers" they were in my opinion gathering either nectar or pollen. David said: In published descriptions amaranths are wind pollinated. Makes no differnce to bees needing pollen for brood. Corn is wind pollinated and bees gather plenty of corn pollen. David said: There is a photo of amaranth honey and a research report saying that the seeds are larger after bee pollination in: S. Yue (ed.), 1993. The research and development of grain amaranth in China. Inst. of Crop Breeding and Cultivation, Chinese Acad. Agr. Sciences, Beijing. If I catch the bees working the amaranth I should be able to tell what the bees are getting. If not pollen then has to be nectar. David said: It would be a benefit to science if someone can publish good evidence for amaranth honey. If you get evidence, please let me know and I will help you to publish it in a small journal. To explain further. I posted the inquiry as amaranth has never been brought up to me before and is not listed in any of my honey plants books except for the following from pg.91 of "American Honey Plants' by Frank Pellett. "A few days ago I happened to be in a patch of Careless weed (Amaranthus) soon after daybreak and found the bees swarming in great numbers around the fresh bloom of the plant. I watched them *carefully* and found that they gather large quantities of pollen quite readily,but in no case was I able to find them even attempting to gather nectar. The pollen seems somewhat powdery and easily shaken from the plant. It is a distinct greenish yellow color." Claims of amaranthus honey in China remains a puzzle. I did not look through all the internet information as suggested by Yoon but saw no reference to honey in the information I looked at . I believe we can safely conclude bees get pollen from amaranth and need to research further on the nectar issue. Thanks for joining in David! Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:14:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Cara &Tom Patterson Subject: Oops! (Bees in Aurora, CO) Comments: To: biologicalbeekeeping@yahoogroups.com, Organicbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I just wanted to update everyone on what happened yesterday. I received an email from City Councilman Bob Legare at about 6:00 AM. When I read his email he said he would be bringing up to Council the possibility of not banning Beekeeping in non-agricultural zones. I then used the internet to check the meeting schedule for the City Council and saw 3/3/03 listed as a meeting date. From there I felt if we were to do anything it had to be that day and I sent out my emails before leaving for work. About 4:00 PM on 3/3/03 I received a call from Councilman Legare informing me that the meeting had been canceled some time ago due to the move to the new City Building that is taking place this month. He also said that beekeeping was not going to be an agenda item at the next meeting which will be late this month. From there I tried to contact anyone whom I thought was going to be at the meeting to keep them from making an un-necessary trip. In regards to the strategy at this time, I will be contacting members of the Council and inviting them to come to my home and see my topbar hive set up in the back yard. Councilman Legare has sent email to the rest of the Council asking for reason in dealing with beekeeping in residential areas. Although the ordinance that was supportive for beekeeping was voted down in Committee, that doesn't require the City to make the steps to Ban beekeeping either. I want to thank each of you that has helped me with this. I cannot emphasize enough how helpful Bob Legare has been as an advocate for hobby beekeeping in Aurora. Additionally, I have directly and indirectly received help from many people. To the people who have written letters to the Council and the Aurora Sentinel, as well as talked to others and helped spread the word and done things I have no idea of, I give my sincere thanks. Tom Patterson :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 18:25:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Denise Hubler Subject: Possum pest? Hi fellow beekeepers, In the recent past I've alluded to the fact that I think I may have a problem with a possum in my bee yard. Today the temps finally reached above 50 so as soon as I got home from work I headed to the apiary to try and determine if the rest of my hives survived the last cold snap. As I approached the back row of hives, I heard a rustling in the leaves. Then I saw a possum in front of the front row of hives. He was actually at the entrance of one of my viable hives--it appeared that he had just been stung, because he kept pawing at his head and then would rub his front paws together in agitation. I saw a couple of bees coming at his face, he snapped at them and devoured them. I have all my hives closed down so only one bee can come and go at a time since I've been having some robbing problems. My impression was that this possum was sitting there waiting for bees to come out, grabbing them and eating them. That is what my intuition tells me anyway. I have noticed an animal trail following the line of hives in the front. I should also mention, I've closed up the dead hives with leaves and am finding these leaves pulled out AND the mouse guards I'm using to keep the openings in the hive diminished are being pulled out.Yes, I do have raccoons (one is an albino) and they could be doing some of the damage.This is the second time I've seen this possum in the apiary-I think I've found his den within 20 feet of the bee yard under a flat rock. Any thouhts on this from you all with more experience? Thanks, Denise Luna Apiaries Kentucky :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 20:35:35 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: bill & cathy brown Subject: Re: Possum pest? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Denise, I have not heard of possums behaving this way, but it is common for skunks to scratch at a hive entrance and consume the bees as they defend the hive. I wouldn't put it past Mr. or Mrs. Possum to have learned the same trick.. The solution for skunks ( and quite possibly possums) is to elevate the hive on a platform at least 18 inches high, keeping bees out of reach. It's great for your back, too! As an alternative, you could trap and relocate the possum. An electric fence around your hives would do the trick.. I use a solar powered unit myself. The fence works to keep racoons and skunks out of my corn as well! Good Luck! Bill Willits, CA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 00:01:51 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Morris Subject: Re: Possum pest? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/4/03 8:12:47 PM Central Standard Time, fletchoneday@AOL.COM writes: << I do have raccoons (one is an albino) and they could be doing some of the damage.This is the second time I've seen this possum in the apiary-I think I've found his den within 20 feet of the bee yard under a flat rock. Any thouhts on this from you all with more experience? >> I cant speak about coons or possums, however skunks I can talk a bit about. I had some problems with them when I lived in Ga. I put the hives on stands that put the entrance about 2 feet off the ground and never had problems with the skunks again. I dont know if this would help with your problem or not. Coons are pretty smart. You could try it. Tim Morris South Central Tennessee :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 06:49:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: jmowat Subject: Re: Help my back In-Reply-To: <1ce.42f2fbf.2b94810b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris... Do you have a website/drawings or anything related to this long deep hive? I've found nothing like it in Canada. Do you have the name of the UK manufacturer? Jay Mowat Erin, Ontario Chris wrote... Alternatively think laterally. Go for a long deep hive. The Dartington model has 21 brood frames 14 x 12 and takes 4 half size supers. It is on a stand so the top bars are about waist high (depending how tall you are). The supers when full weigh no more than 16 pounds. The latest version has open mesh floors. A UK manufacturer now produces it in kit form. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 08:12:20 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: Possum pest? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I lived in Tenn. some friends and I gathered possum all summer long and released them in the hollow near where we lived. The fall after the first cold spell we would harvest. This is when the coat if at its fullest with undercoat hair and all. The money was good for the fur. We fed the animals getting rid of the wild flavor with a mixture of oatmeal and corn for a week. A mixture of pollen, propulas, and honey was feed the last day before harvesting the meat. When cooked with carrots, onions (Ramps if you like'em), and potatoes the meat is excellent. Raccoon is even better. Be sure to save the jewelry from the male. Trapping possum is easy, they are dum. Once caught transport away from the area and release. Possums may show up from scent. Try elevating your hives alittle higher from the ground. Raccoons are another story, try another state for the distance needed. You might trap one but anymore are educated on that form of trap. I have mouse/snake problem. They go hand and hand. I trap a mouse and put it into a wire cage live with food and water. The wire mesh has to be big enough for the snake to get in for lunch but can't get back out. I move the snake some distance away. This works for me. I had a 6 foot black snake, which I leave at the site, return 7 times while I was working the same hive. The sites that have the Fox squirrels and deer are one of the reasons I enjoy beekeeping. The Fox squirrel comes to a tree limb within a few feet of me and barks. He then sits there and watches for an hour. Simply beautiful. Michael Housel pure Hillbilly Orlandobee :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:01:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Les Roberts Subject: Possum pest? In-Reply-To: <200303050501.h253nV9T011120@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:00 AM 3/5/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 18:25:01 -0500 >From: Denise Hubler >Subject: Possum pest? > >Hi fellow beekeepers, > In the recent past I've alluded to the fact that I think I may have a >problem with a possum in my bee yard. .. > Any thouhts on this from you all with more experience? Two years ago, I had a possum molesting my hives in the same way. It was late at night and I was startled seeing her over by a hive. Possums being what they are, she was still there when I went in my house and got my gun. (I live outside of town, in the county, and although i think it may be against neighborhood covenants to fire my gun, it's not against county law). As she had a dirt embankment behind her, I was able to cleanly dispatch her with my .22. In my case, she had been pregnant and about to give birth to little ones. I wondered whether the hive was attractive because she was pregnant, or if, in fact, some possums just like to molest hives. I tried researching about possum problems with apiaries, and couldn't find anything. But I know my own experience and it has sometimes been mentioned in my bee talks. ccrb - www.ChristianMusicWeekly.com published weekly for Christian Radio :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:13:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Dr. Malcolm T. Sanford" Subject: Ordinances and Beekeeping (Aurora, Colorado) In-Reply-To: <200303050501.h253nV9T011120@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I have been following Tom Patterson's description of the events surrounding banning beekeeping in Aurora, Colorado. This is something that frequently occurs in urban areas and existing ordinances often don't account for it creatively....For guidance, I wrote something that might be helpful in this regard.....the best of all possible worlds is to eliminate any thoughts of banning bees, but failing that see: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AA137 Malcolm T. Sanford Dr. Malcolm T. Sanford Retired Extension Apiculturist, Professor Emeritus University of Florida, P.O. Box 110620, Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 To subscribe to the revamped Apis newsletter, see: http://apis.shorturl.com/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:24:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Yoonytoons Subject: Re: Possum pest? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings, Yes, Denise, opossum IS a bona fide bee pest, especially at this time of the year, just as any other nocturnal predators, such a raccoon and especially skunk, both of which scavenge around the apiary year round. Yesterday (March 4, 2003), I did my spring check on my Feed Center colony, and while I was busy cleaning bottoms and shuffling boxes, still filled with unused honey, around 4:00 in the afternoon, a FAT opossum came out in *broad daylight*, having smelled honey from broken bits of burr comb on the ground. Its audacity shocked me. And having lost a good number this winter, I was not in any tolerant mood at all, especially at its disgustingly-lovely look. I yelled at it and I saw it cower and recoil back into the corner whence it must have come out between two round bales placed at a right angle. It was one of the largest I have seen, with its ugly rat-tail, thick as my thumb at the base. “These mammals visit apiaries and prey on the same colonies night after night, scratching the exterior of the colony for the guard bees to come out in response, and then they eat the bees ” (Hive and Honey Bee 1138). Of course, their repeated attacks make the colony super jittery. Interestingly, I was inspecting the bees without lighting my smoker, as usual; this was my first serious look, and usually the bees would put up with me when cold [it was in the upper 50’s and they were busy hauling in dull-yellow daffodil pollens, the first of the year, in their goulashes]. But when I got to the strongest of all colonies, boiling with nearly two deeps of bees, plus a medium filled with honey, they were NASTY. En masse, they flitted at me, like dark bullets. Although they could not sting through my winter clothing, I could feel the tips of their needles nip, irritating me so much so that I had to grab my nylon windbreaker, which offered me a better protection from my becoming an incidental pin- cushion. For a moment I thought, its queen must have mated with the large feral colony, standing next, that I had saved last summer. But then the same colony was not as defensive as this last fall and although I saw capped drone-cells today, supercedure was unlike through the winter. Furthermore, the queen was only one year old last fall. Then I saw the opossum. Early in the morning, I drove over there, taking my wife’s rifle and my dogs with me, but the varmint had gone, looking for a warmer spot since it fell below 20 last night. But I know it will be back when the temperature gets warm. Evidently, the fact that I had placed two pallets under each colony did not help much to expose the soft underbelly of the varmint. Also when the colony clusters are small, normally bees would not come out when chilly, no matter how much scratching is going on outside. Only the strongest can manage sending out guards at this time of the year. That is how I put the two together without actually seeing the opossum work at my strong colony. Perhaps I should quadruple the stack although I do not want my super going up too high during the flow. Yoon Shawnee, OK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:41:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: to smoke or not to smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yoon said; "Interestingly, I was inspecting the bees without lighting my smoker, as usual" Yoon also said: "when I got to the strongest of all colonies, boiling with nearly two deeps of bees, plus a medium filled with honey, they were NASTY. En masse, they flitted at me, like dark bullets. Although they could not sting through my winter clothing, I could feel the tips of their needles nip, irritating me so much so that I had to grab my nylon windbreaker, which offered me a better protection from my becoming an incidental pin-cushion." In my humble opinion smoke would have been a useful tool in the above situation! If nothing else but to mask the odor of the stings in Yoon's clothing. What if Yoon had not been protected by his armor coating? Bob "Thinking a smoke free workplace does not fit beekeeping!" :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 22:04:13 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Bee Imports & Exports/another perspective Comments: To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" In-Reply-To: <01C2DDF5.B02E3720.jfischer@supercollider.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <01C2DDF5.B02E3720.jfischer@supercollider.com>, James Fischer writes >These two experiments lead Galton to coin the phrase "regression to the mean". Not being a biologist (ex-physicist and educationalist) I appreciate that selection for one character means all others regress to the mean. Also, open mating will regress many to the mean. My optimism is based on getting a large number of beekeepers working together, covering the whole of the peninsula. I have no idea yet what % colonies we will recruit, but I am hopeful that drone flooding will go some way to getting us going. We have some areas a bit more isolated and working intensively there might help. We also have a number of groups working around the UK, some with II and some without. We'll be able to compare notes. >What does one do to avoid this phenomenon, except requeen with the progeny >of inseminated queens from a closed-population controlled breeding program? John Dews has bees that damage nearly 60% of the mites falling on the floor, but last season he did II even with a very isolated open mating site. Look up Spurn Head, on the north side of the Humber estuary in Yorkshire, UK and you'll see what I mean. The Lizard, in Cornwall, is not so good as there are lots of beekeepers. However, this level of co- operation has been reported in Eastern Europe, mainly through the gift of queens to non-participating beekeepers. John has however, reported increasing mite damage in other hives where open mating was the norm. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:52:33 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Denise Hubler Subject: possum pest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you , everyone for your responses about my possum problem. Yoon, I'm sorry about your problem with the possum, but I'm glad you and ccrb were able to definitely confirm my suspicions. I have had skunk problems in the past so I know what havoc they can wreak. The coons and possums are new to me. I prefer to not kill the critters. In my limited research on possums I've found they eat snakes-especially copperheads which we do have. I'm thinking I'd like to try using some carpet boards (There is another name for those strips with nails in them but it escapes me at the moment) in front of the hives--on the ground and at the entrance to see if I can't discourage the beasties. I don't think elevating the hives would solve the problem as both possums and coons are excellent climbers. And using an electric fence is a great idea but I'm not able to get electricity out there right now. although,I suppose I could consider a solar powered one eventually if the carpet strips don't work. Thanks again for the help! Denise @ Luna Apiaries :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 23:04:30 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: to smoke or not to smoke > What if Yoon had not been protected by his armor coating? > > Bob ... and what of others, perhaps non-beekeepers, passing by? Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 21:55:06 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Formic acid discussion In-Reply-To: <001801c2dcdc$05834500$4cac58d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <001801c2dcdc$05834500$4cac58d8@BusyBeeAcres>, Bob Harrison writes >In all *other* parts of the world formic acid use is widespread and >considered a homopathec method of control such as using backing soda to >control ants. Food grade mineral oil use is not registered for use in bee >hives but widely accepted as a legal homopathec use. I do find this strange, if formic acid indeed kills mites, as is FGMO said to - in this case it is antiopathic, like many human medicines. Homoeopathic medicines work by going with (not against) the illness and support the infected organism work through the disease. It has always worked with my daughter, even though I have no clue about how it works. We did have a brief flurry of interest in homoeopathic remedies over here in the UK a few years ago. Initially these were made up from crushed mites diluted and shaken in the usual way. Later, they were made with mites supposedly carrying viruses, as it was the viruses which were implicated in killing the colonies. We have heard no more. I could never see how a homoeopathic medicine could deal with an external parasite. I wonder if this is an incorrect use of the term to persuade us it is valid. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 22:15:27 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Formic acid discussion Comments: To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" In-Reply-To: <01C2DE9A.54864250.jfischer@supercollider.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <01C2DE9A.54864250.jfischer@supercollider.com>, James Fischer writes >I guess the best description for oxalic acid would be "a naturally occurring >toxin", >found in very low levels in many foods". > >It certainly is NOT on the "Generally Recognized As Safe" list. > >And while it may be is "easier to use" than Formic, I don't think it would be >easier to "register as a pesticide" than formic. I believe it is widely used in Continental Europe because it is a lot less dangerous to both beekeepers and bees than formic acid and much less temperature dependent. It is registered in many EU countries and well researched. It is permitted in the UK as a "curative substance" but not registered as no-one would dream of spending the sums involved to register it as a veterinary medicine since it is a cheap chemical and dispensed without proprietary gear. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 19:05:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Yoonytoons Subject: Re: to smoke or not to smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ahoy, Bob! I could not agree more with you, our wise and experienced friend from Missouri. [Since I am being nice to you, Bob, will you let me sample a jar of amaranth honey?] I do use my smoker—-I inherited as many as five of them, of varying lung- capacity—-but that’s rare, such as when I remove walled or tree colonies, or having to do any open surgery, such as making splits, going at the heart of a colony. Even when I do use my smoker, doing these chores, I smoke lightly to enhance the visibility of the queen. Most of the time, though, I often find myself vain enough to *think* that I can read the mood of my bees; therefore, I shift from no smoke at all to a water sprayer, my smoker tucked away in the back of my pickup box, just in case. Most of the time, my water sprayer-bottle is my main shield of defense, though. Using the foam pad and a five-dollar leaf-blower I bought at a garage sale, for me, makes the smoker obsolete, even when taking honey--as far as you know what you are doing, such as weather, temperature, nectar flow, etc. However, I must agree with Rev. Langstroth that “Veil is the cheapest protection for a beekeeper,” and now with Bob that bee-suit and a lit smoker, along with the veil, offer the best protection—-given so many unforeseen variables, such as overnight pest-harassment on our bees, possible AHB encounters in Oklahoma in the future, and an unusually aggressive batch of bees from the same and previously gentle queen. Yoon from People's Republic of Oklahoma :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 19:48:14 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Formic acid discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James said in reference to use of formic and FGMO as *homeopathic*: " I wonder if this is an incorrect use of the term to persuade us it is valid." The term was widely used at the ABF convention (2003 K.C., Missouri) by many people (even members of the bee inspectors). I am lucky to be on a first name basis with many of the bee inspectors. Many never saw a problem with use of mineral oil in a bee hive. Many joked that the only problem with mineral oil might be that too high a dose might have a laxative effect on the bees. I personally see use of food grade mineral oil as a non issue but I suppose there might be those which might raise eyebrows . In my opinion I see formic use the same way. Risk is too the applicator. If the beekeeper follows Medhat N. or mitegone methods and safety methods I see only risk to the beekeeper if he or she does not use proper care. After all tens of millions of batteries were sold through the years with sulfuric acid in a separate container and filled at home by the buyer. WalMart ( see below) still sells motorcycle batteries this way to any person which has money to buy including children filling batteries for their motor scooters and mini bikes. As a small orchard owner I believe I would be in greater risk with many of the chemicals I (and you) can freely buy from my orchard chemical supply house. Not person or animals are allowed to enter the field without a respirator for 24 hours. Last Saturday I invited a veteran EPA chemical police friend (he now owns a pest control business but enforced chemical label violations for around ten years I believe) to the house for diner. After dinner we discussed formic acid. He said: "Use of formic acid or FGMO when used as a pesticide becomes a pesticide in the eyes of the EPA". However when there is no label then the homeowner can use as he/she sees fit BUT NOT for others. You can not sell the product as a pesticide without EPA label registration. Although I have listened to those on the list which say "private use of formic acid or FGMO is illegal" I have yet to find those in the EPA to back Peter and Jim up. I have been told both the EPA & FDA monitor the BEE-L list. Would a rep from one or both please say "yes" or "no" or "under these conditions" to the private use U.S.A. legal issue? Bob A radio talk show last week reported ( K.C.X.L. 1140 A.M) that China had said " business from WalMart had created 12 million jobs in China" and thanked the largest importer of goods from China for its business at a function. I believe Mr Sam Walton (WalMart founder) would roll over in his grave if he saw those figures. As Dan Rather would say "Part of our world today". :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:15:28 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: to smoke or not to smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob & All, > What if Yoon had not been protected by his armor coating? > He would have gotten some well deserved therapy. . .. c(((([ Keith Malone Chugiak, Alaska USA Black Caucasian Bee Keeper alaskabeekeeper@hotmail.com http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ Check out current weather in my area and 5 day forecast; http://www.wx.com/myweather.cfm?ZIP=99654 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 18:42:46 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Photos of Small Cell Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I went out two days ago and checked a few colonies and took two photos. I posted on on Norlands home page and I posted both in the photos section of both Norlands and Organicbeekeepers. At this present time All 18 of my colonies are alive, a first that I know of in my location, but winter is not quite over yet and circumstances could change. URL's below may need copying and pasting to get them to work. Just keeping those on the list updated as requested in the past. http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/lst?.dir=/alaskabeeke eper&.src=gr&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/ http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/lst?.dir=/Keith+Malon e&.src=gr&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ . .. c(((([ Keith Malone Chugiak, Alaska USA Black Caucasian Bee Keeper alaskabeekeeper@hotmail.com http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ Check out current weather in my area and 5 day forecast; http://www.wx.com/myweather.cfm?ZIP=99654 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 00:37:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul S LeRoy Subject: Brown Sugar MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am working with new beekeepers in St.Kitts in the Caribbean where brown sugar is quite a bit cheaper than white sugar. They recently posed the question as to whether bees could be fed brown sugar syrup and if so would the mixture still be 1:1. Can anybody on the List relate any studies or personal experience with feeding brown sugar? Thanks :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 07:33:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Brown Sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" pleroy@WCTEL.NET asked about brown sugar as feed for bees. I cannot site studies or references, but am sure it's not a good idea. First, for the rest of the readers, brown sugar in the Carribean is not the same as brown sugar one uses in the states. The distinction is tha Carribean brown sugar is simply sugar that is less refined than white, table sugar. Carribean brown sugar is what is referred to as "raw sugar" in the states, as opposed to brown sugar that is used in baking recipes, which is actually white sugar with molasses added and should NEVER be used as bee feed. Regardless, why it is a bad idea for bee feed is that the Carribean brown sugar still has a lot of residues (which is why it's brown and why it is cheaper). Refining those residues out of Carribean brown sugar to make white table sugar takes energy, hence the added expense. Those residues will stress your bees. Now as I write this, with an appreciation that all beekeeping is local, I am left wondering if the problem I describe (residues in Carribean brown sugar causing digestive problems in bees) is actually a problem. I would never use Carribean brown sugar as feed for New York State bees because I would only be feeding at a time when the bees are likely to be confined, and the residues in the sugar would heavily stress my confined bees. Carribean brown sugar and confined bees is most likely a lethal combination. But I imagine the parameters are different in the Carribbean; the bees won't be confined, at least not for the prolonged periods they are in my neck of the woods (where the only palm trees grow in shopping malls). So I realize that I don't really know the answer to the question asked. I am sure Carribean brown sugar has high residues that make it unsuitable for feed in upstate New York. I don't know if it's a problem in parts of the world cursed with wimpy weather ;-) Aaron Morris - thinking 16 days 'til spring, 6 weeks 'til shorts! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 07:32:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: When to Re-Queen? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George Imirie has spoken about his preferences regarding when to = re-queen, as have others. George prefers Fall re-queening (Sep. 1), in = an area that relies predominantly on the Spring flow. I live in central = Vermont, where the most notable (wild) flows are dandelion in May (very = heavy but short), and goldenrod/aster in Sep-Oct (heavy and long), which = generally subsides around the first week in Oct. There are, of course, = lesser flows pretty much throughout the summer, with a nectar dearth = around the end of July. At the risk of starting an endless debate on this topic, I'm wondering: = =20 1) Does Fall re-queening makes sense in the Northeast, or is Spring the = preferred route for most? =20 =20 2) When during each period - after the dandelion flow for Spring, or = before the goldenrod/aster flow in Fall? =20 3) Would re-queening make any sense during the July/August lull? Thanks in advance, Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 07:59:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: When to Re-Queen? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Signguy@SOVER.NET asked when to requeen in the Northeast. Again, all beekeeping is local. George's advice for beekeeping in Maryland (the Northeast) may not be the same advice I'd give for upstate New York (the Northeast) which is a lot closer to Vermont (the Northeast). Best time to requeen in the Northeast? When your bees need a new queen! This is different than, "When is the best time to implement a regular regimen of requeening a hive?" For implementing a regular regimen, I'll stand in George's corner and back the recommendation of fall requeening, with the caveat that fall arrives a lot earlier in Vermont and upstate New York than it does in Maryland (where the only palm trees grow in shopping malls). So, getting down to really local beekeeping, in Vermont (what part of Vermont? - beekeeping is very much influenced by microclimates, which can differ within tens of miles), I'd set up a nuc about mid-July with queens from Kirk Webster (if he can keep ahead of the demand), and when the nuc is going strong by early mid-August, I'd combine it with the colony to be requeened (after giving that colony's queen the hive tool test). This is YOUR ideal time. You';; have a fall requeening with a local queen, just when the golden rod is peaking and the asters are about to come on. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 08:56:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Brown Sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > pleroy@WCTEL.NET asked about brown sugar as feed for bees. > First, for the rest of the readers, brown sugar in the Carribean is not the > same as brown sugar one uses in the states. The distinction is tha > Carribean brown sugar is simply sugar that is less refined than white, table > sugar. Carribean brown sugar is what is referred to as "raw sugar" in the > states, as opposed to brown sugar that is used in baking recipes, which is > actually white sugar with molasses added and should NEVER be used as bee > feed. snip > I don't really know the answer to the question asked. I am sure Carribean > brown sugar has high residues that make it unsuitable for feed in upstate > New York. I don't know if it's a problem in parts of the world cursed with > wimpy weather ;-) A good reference. http://www.beesource.com/pov/usda/abjfeb1977.htm Raw sugar is sugar without the molasses and other impurities removed and brown is with molasses added so the final result is "pure". There are several stages from the pressed cane to white sugar so raw sugar can be pretty much anything from very dark to nearly white, depending on the molasses content. In any case, you will have problems with it as a feed, depending, as Aaron noted, on the location but also on the the "rawness" of the sugar. The further you get from while sugar, the more the problems. Also adding to the uncertainty is the method of processing and what else may be in the raw sugar. If you are in a location where the bees can fly whenever they need to, the problems go down. But there will be bee deaths, usually from dysentery. The problem is, with the more refined raw sugar, you will not notice the deaths since the numbers are usually less than 15%. Also, raw sugar will ferment much quicker than white. That also will kill bees. So the answer is that you can feed them raw sugar but you will lose bees, no matter where you are and the numbers will be greater the less refined the cane sugar. The processing method may leave undesirable elements that could add to the bee deaths or even poison the colony. Also, the number and severity of the loss depends on where you are located. In Maine, as a winter feed, it would kill off quite a few colonies. Less as you move south. (But so will fall honey which generally is very dark and crystallizes easily.) Raw beet sugar is poisonous to bees while raw cane sugar is not. So the answer is yes you can but be prepared for problems. I personally would not no matter where I was located. If you lose up to 15% of your bees (in Maine it could be all of them) that will relate to a greater loss in honey production so you might be penny wise but pound foolish, since sugar is much cheaper than honey. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 07:58:52 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: wintering bees & rebuilding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keith said: At this present time All 18 of my colonies are alive, a first that I know of in my location, but winter is not quite over yet and circumstances could change. For a couple minutes while searching for Keith's bee pictures I thought I would have to join three new beekeeping lists to see the pictures! When I see pictures and wintering results like Keith's I attribute success to the beekeeper rather than the bees. Keith no doubt followed the basic rules of wintering to the letter. In Alaska & Canada the beekeeper knows a cold winter is coming and if proper preparation is not done winter failure will result. In the Midwest if we see a problem which will result in huge hive loss by spring we simply load up the hives and head for a warmer climate so bee work such as feeding, disease control and early requeening can continue. I helped with an outfit which had a high infestation of varroa and had not produced enough young bees to winter or even store feed given to winter on. A call was placed to another commercial beekeeper and the three of us loaded up and trucked the whole outfit south. A building had to be rented just to store and rework deadouts. The beekeeper spent the winter in the south raising queens and building the outfit back up. On his return we placed those hives in Apples and I could not believe those were the same hives (reworked) we trucked south. The beekeeper grafted six days a week and raised, mated and installed over a thousand queens. He said he (and his helper) were totally exhausted by the end of each day and it seemed as though when they closed their eyes at night it had only been a couple minutes and the alarm was going off to start again. Twice in my years of beekeeping I have been in the similar shape. Helpless feeling and you feel like quiting. Both times I had to look out of state to get *jump started* due to the amount of help needed. Both times commercial beekeepers helped me work through the issue. Very few on the list keep bees for a living but if you do and you find yourself in a similar to above situation and a large beekeeper offers help. Forget pride and let the beekeeper help. Our numbers are dwindling and we are on the endangered species list. Beekeeping friends which offer help when your back is against the wall are friendships worth hanging on to. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 15:45:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Janet Montgomery Subject: Re: When to Re-Queen? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT One may consider Re queening during a honey flow that will end in a couple of weeks, say in June, that way, the queen will be accepted, the old brood emerged and the new queen production will have a several week delay. The advantage of this system might be that it would allow less field bees to be produced, and requiring food during the nectar dearth. When the new brood reaches field age, hopefully the nectar would be back. Just some ideas for discussion. Dan Veilleux In the mountains of North Carolina :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 18:12:04 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Long Deep Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/03/03 05:06:39 GMT Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: << Do you have a website/drawings or anything related to this long deep hive? I've found nothing like it in Canada. Do you have the name of the UK manufacturer? >> Robin Dartington the inventor of the LD Hive that bears his name has written a book describing its use and including dimensioned diagrams and component lists. It is entitled Equipment for New Beekeeping and the ISBN is 0905652 51 7. I expect your library could get it for you. Stamfordham Ltd manufacture the hive in kit form in the UK. I was chatting to the proprietor, Mike Lewis at the National Honey Show last year and I think he said the price was about 160GBP but my memory could be faulty as I do not have his catalogue to hand. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 19:44:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Miller Subject: Flooring This is a little off the normal postings but most would understand. My wife and I are building a house and are interested in some flooring that has a honeycomb print in it. My inlaws have a bathroom floor (maybe sheet vinyl) that is made up of six sided geometrics. Does anyone know where to find such things as I have looked at major manufacturers choices and have not had any luck? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 09:41:39 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Leslie Dodd Subject: Re: Long Deep Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi there, As it happens I will be seeing Robin Dartington tomorrow, he's giving a talk at the Cornish Bee keepers AGM. They may not be in libraries as Robin self publishes and the distributor (Bee Books New & Old) has not been able to get copies of the plans for months (I know I have wanted a set!). Hopefully Robin will have the updated drawings on sale tomorrow. There is also a booklet that describes the use and rationale of the hive. If you want it I will get the address and costs for the booklets and you can go direct to the source. TTFN Les Dodd -- "Of all the things I've ever lost, I miss my mind the most" :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 10:40:39 -0500 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Formic acid discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison said: > James [Kilty] said in reference to use of formic and FGMO as *homeopathic*: >> " I wonder if this is an incorrect use of the term to >> persuade us it is valid." > The term was widely used at the ABF convention (2003 K.C., Missouri) by > many people (even members of the bee inspectors)... I think that we can ignore the use of the highly inaccurate term "homeopathic" as nothing more than an honest attempt to describe FGMO as "non-toxic". It is true that terminology can often frame a debate, but I doubt that anyone would think FGMO "benefits" in any way from being called "homeopathic". Most deliberate attempts to gain legitimacy involve wrapping one's views in the white lab coat of Science rather than the tie-dyed tee-shirt of "alternative medicine". :) > I have been told both the EPA & FDA monitor the BEE-L list. Would a rep from > one or both please say "yes" or "no" or "under these conditions" to the > private use U.S.A. legal issue? Don't hold your breath - neither the EPA or FDA are allowed to make such comments outside the context of a specific "application" for a label and/or approval. Employees of either would be fools to start posting what would only be described as "personal views". > "Use of formic acid or FGMO when used as a pesticide becomes a pesticide > in the eyes of the EPA". Sales of ANYTHING as a pesticide requires EPA approval - check out the bottles of Garlic-based and Red Pepper-based mixtures marketed as pest repellents. This is a clear-cut case, since garlic and red pepper are clearly "food". The problem with a paternal government is that they don't know where to draw the line between good regulations (like seat belts) and silly ones (like the need to "register" garlic). > However when there is no label then the homeowner can use as he/she sees > fit BUT NOT for others. You can not sell the product as a pesticide without > EPA label registration. Although I have listened to those on the list which > say "private use of formic acid or FGMO is illegal"... The EPA has multiple concerns, like "effectiveness", "risk to people", and "risk to the environment". When one uses a substance "off label" as a pesticide, the "illegal" aspect would likely be a technical violation of an existing environmental regulation. A good example would be spraying motor oil as a "dormant oil" on budding trees. You simply can't go spraying motor oil hither and yon, even if you only spray your own trees. In the specific case of Formic, there really are no "environmental" concerns, and the safety issues are nothing more that a simple matter of education, so the result is two statements, both accurate: In general, personal use of random unapproved substances as pesticides can be illegal. In specific, use of Formic Acid (assuming careful handling and following of OSHA regulations) would be nearly impossible to "prosecute", given the lack of "a cause of action" in the form of a violation of some existing regulation. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:13:11 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: bill & cathy brown Subject: Re: Finding a bee suit for a child MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all! My wife and I are interested in having our young daughter with us in the apiary while we work our hives. I have been searching for a bee suit that would fit her or could be modified to fit her. Any suggestions? I would like her to be exposed to the wonderful world of bees before she has any reason to be anti-bug.. My daughter is 3 years old, and already has an interest in bees and honey.. I know that some of you out there have fledgling beekeepers under your roof. At what age did you begin their indentured servitude? Thanks, Bill Brown Willits, California :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 09:39:47 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Farber Subject: Re: Finding a bee suit for a child MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding introducing your child to beekeeping, I have only one suggestion before you start to do so. You might spend some time asking experienced beekeepers and research people about the dangers of an anaphylactic reaction if a person is exposed to bee venom but never stung. It appears that beekeepers' family members have a higher than average serious reaction to bee stings than does the general population. Many of us beekeepers have done exactly what you are planning to do. Unfortunately, for some of us the child has become extremely sensitive to a bee sting. Be cautious and become informed. Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 13:36:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: muses Subject: Finding a bee suit for a child MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I dont dress my boy, just poke him off to the side and tell him to hold still. They must learn not to spin and twirl while moving the hives around. One lovely day he failed to listen and got stung on the head. Got off pretty easy considering I was moving a new split about 20 miles and then had walked it down into a field just before he ran several circles around and banged into the nuc. He now has little interest in going to the bee yard but helps best he can when pulling honey and follows bees around the house. He is now 6. If he wants to go to the yard I just put on an extra jacket, tuck his pants into his trousers and don a bee hat. No biggy, he cant really get "into" the hive till he is taller. I dont bother with gloves, I tell him to put them into his jacket pockets to contain them. Ive not had a problem yet. NW PA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 20:25:44 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Durk Ellison Subject: CMAC 2003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CMAC 2003 The American Apitherapy Society's Charles Mraz Apitherapy Course July 10 - July 13, 2003 -- Los Angeles, California A hands-on course in apitherapy for beginners and experienced apitherapists wishing to keep up to date. Starting with a reception the evening of Thursday, July 10 the AAS is offering their annual course in apitherapy. This course is designed for people new to apitherapy and for experienced apitherapists who are interested in learning the latest in apitherapy treatments. You will have the opportunity to experience apitherapy -- hands-on. Your instructors will be interesting, enthusiastic people devoted to healing with natural products as well as an experienced team of apitherapists. The classes will be small; the atmosphere conducive to questions and dialogue. The course will cover the use of bee venom therapy, pollen, propolis and royal jelly. The course will culminate in an exam Sunday morning for those who are interested in receiving the Certificate of Knowledge. FACULTY: Faculty members will include people known in apitherapy circles and experts in their areas including: Dr. Cherbuliez, who has been practicing apitherapy for 17 years and practicing medicine for 50 years, will be leading the course. He is on the faculty of Cornell Medical School. Dr Cherbuliez serves as President of the Apitherapy Commission for Apimondia, the International Federation of Beekeepers Associations. Dr. Cherbuliez is currently setting up a country-wide apitherapy program in Burkina Faso, Africa for the United Nations. Dr. Cherbuliez is a Master Beekeeper and has kept bees for over 35 years. Pat Wagner, an MS patient who has written the book on treating MS with apitherapy, How Well Are You Willing To Bee. Pat has practiced apitherapy for 11 years and worked with Charles Mraz. She has been interviewed by Connie Chung on TV, and has appeared on the Discovery Channel and Discovery Health Channel. Dr. Andrew Kochan, Vice President of the AAS, will also be teaching at CMAC 2003. Dr. Kochan has been involved in pain management for 18 years and using bee venom therapy for the past 10 years. Dr. Kochan is a graduate of Washington University Medical School and is on the teaching faculty of University of Southern California Medical School. Registration for the course and materials: *** $275 for AAS members and $300 for non-members (includes a one year membership.) NOTE: Registration fees do not include hotel and meals. *** If you are an attendee of CMAC 2003 you may purchase at a reduced price the Apimondia Apitherapy CD ROM -- $30.00 plus shipping and handling. *** To register, mail (or fax) the registration form to the AAS office along with the appropriate payment. (Address is below) You can access a registration form from our website, www.apitherapy.org or by completing the registration form attached to this email. You can use www.PayPal.com to pay your registration fee. The hotel is the Four Points Sheraton at Los Angeles (LAX) International Airport. The Special AAS Room Rate is $75.00 per night, single or double occupancy so be certain to use the AAS name when reserving and reserve before June 10th. The Four Points has a fitness center, restaurants and offers a free airport shuttle. Please remember, July is tourism season in LA so reserve your room before June 6! To reserve rooms at the hotel: *** Website: www.fourpointslax.com *** Telephone toll-free within the US: 800-529-4685 *** Telephone: 310-645-4600 *** Fax: 310-649-7047 We hope to see you in Los Angeles! ************************************* Sara Cornwall Executive Director American Apitherapy Society 1209 Post Road Scarsdale, NY 10583-2023 USA Tel: 914-725-7944 Fax: 914-723-0920 E-mail: aasoffice@apitherapy.org www.apitherapy.org :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 14:30:32 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: Finding a bee suit for a child MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill, Brushy Mountain and Dadant have child sized suits. see their websites online. Kathy cox :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:24:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Oldest man in USA (112) was a beekeeper until 107 Comments: To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Fischer wrote: > The oldest guy in the US was a beekeeper, and still eats pollen every day. > Mere coincidence? > > >>From the Associated Press: > > February 26, 2003 -- BALDWINSVILLE, N.Y. - A teaspoon of bee pollen with each meal - and > an occasional nip of whiskey in the morning - is the secret to a life spanning three centuries, > said America's oldest man. He lived in Maine and when interviewed back when he was a young 107 he said there was no secret. He lived here until a couple of years ago when he finally had to go into a nursing home and wanted to be near family. What he did do was exercise daily chopped his own wood for winter, shoveled snow, and walked up and down stairs daily. I found him to be a kind and gentle man. I wrote several article about Fred for our state newsletter. He came to every Annual meeting and Annual Picnic, which is when I saw and talked with him. I took a picture of him with two other long time beekeepers. All three were still active. Their combined beekeeping experience was 240+ years, with Fred having the lion share of that(and that was 7 years ago. Had I taken the pic when Fred finally retired it would have been 260+ years since all three were still active.) Fred actively helped other beekeepers up through his 100th birthday. My favorite story about Fred was when he was about 103 a friend came by his home. Fred was on the porch roof shoveling snow off the roof. He told Fred to be careful. When the friend came by some minutes later, Fred was shoveling the sidewalk. The friend asked, "How did you get down off the roof, Fred?" "Jumped." Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::