From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:26:50 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-78.0 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, ALL_NATURAL,AWL,DRUGS_ERECTILE,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SARE_FRAUD_X3, SARE_FRAUD_X4,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE8B049056 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDAZeK011456 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0304A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 172747 Lines: 3756 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 23:19:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Early Drones In-Reply-To: <001d01c2f792$c6bdab40$5cac58d8@BusyBeeAcres> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:34 AM 3/31/2003 -0600, you wrote: >I have been thinking of ways to produce early drones for mating up here in >Alaska where our season is already very short. Does anyone know how to do >this? Last year we had a fairly mild winter with several warmer spells beginning mid January. I started feeding 1:1 then and by Mid March the colonies were just overflowing with bees and large numbers of drones. This year hasn't been so forgiving though, we didn't have many days above freezing till mid march. -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:35:37 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Vs: [BEE-L] Early Drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I have been thinking of ways to produce early drones for mating up here in > Alaska where our season is already very short. Does anyone know how to do > this? Not easy, but here is a solution for those who really want early drones. Take the queen out of the hive very late the previous fall. So late that the new emergency queen has no chance to mate. ( here in Finland mid - sptember is ok). This hive will have lots of drones extremely early next spring, but you have to add normal brood from other hives to keep up with the production. Best to use with artificial insemination as at least here it takes a long time for the weather to warm up for natural mating. Ari Ari Seppälä MMM Projektipäällikkö Project Manager Suomen Mehiläishoitajain Liitto r.y. Finnish Beekeepers' Association komppa-seppala@co.inet.fi www.hunaja.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:48:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Cara &Tom Patterson Subject: Update on beekeeping in Aurora, CO Comments: To: biologicalbeekeeping@yahoogroups.com, Organicbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The City Council decided to have the Ordinance Committee take the issue back and come up with something better than restricting beekeeping to agricultural zones in the city. This is definitely a victory for the time. The issue is not settled but the restriction idea was not well received by the Council in general. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 21:37:32 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Vincenc Petruna Subject: Jacaranda tree and varroa mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Some days ago dr. Starc, the entomologist from Uppsala University, during the lessons in his native country Slovenia proposed that in Peru beekepers put some pieces of the jacaranda tree in their hives against varroa mites and that this works. Does anybody in this group know anything more about this method? Regards, Vincenc Petruna -- Domaèa stran http://www2.arnes.si/~sscrnomelj/ Debatna skupina http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cebelar/ Beta verzija Domaèe strani dru¹tva http://www2.arnes.si/~sscrnomelj/drustvo/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:42:43 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Early Drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob & All, > The only way we have found is to bring your drone rearing colonies in from a > long honey flow in the south such as Orange in Florida or Almonds in > California. > I could see that working somewhat well, but the drone stock would not be acclimated to my area if I were to practice that method. . .. c(((([ Keith Malone Chugiak, Alaska USA Black Caucasian Bee Keeper alaskabeekeeper@hotmail.com http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ Check out current weather in my area and 5 day forecast; http://www.wx.com/myweather.cfm?ZIP=99654 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:44:12 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: cognant.mike@BTCONNECT.COM Subject: Prevention of deterioration of Sugar Feed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi In his book "Honey Farming" R.O.B Manley reported using thymol in honey for winter feeding to prevent fermentation. He used the thymol by dissolving one ounce of thymol crystals in five fluid ounces of surgical spirit and then added half a fluid ounce of this mixture to 112 lbs of sugar, which he dissolved in 7 imperial gallons of water (equivalent to 8.75 US gallons) to make the winter feed. Surgical spirit is 95% industrial alcohol with the balance being methyl salicylate and extras. He reported one event where a sugar solution treated with thymol remained usable for 18 months when a sealed jar was accidentally left in a hedge. Regards Mike Rowbottom HARROGATE North Yorks UK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:42:45 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Honey Show ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Palmer" > I have just heard that there is an annual honey show in London. Can anyone > familiar with this show tell me something about it, especially what time of > year it is usually held? Website: http://www.honeyshow.co.uk/ All this info and much more on our links page: http://www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/Links.htm Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:54:20 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ross Langlands Subject: Honey Show MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Carol Palmer asks about the London Honey Show. I don't know when it is this year, but if she wishes to come north of the border she should try the Royal Highland Show in Edinburgh at the end of June. Ross Langlands ********************************************************************** The information contained in this message may be confidential or legally privileged and is intended for the addressee only, If you have received this message in error or there are any problems please notify the originator immediately. The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. ********************************************************************** :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:15:33 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Re: Early Drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some of the Southern bee breeders would probably ship you a package of drones and by the same token, you could get good quality at the same time. Lionel :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:36:30 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Morris Subject: Re: Prevention of deterioration of Sugar Feed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not having access to the archives at present, I suspect that the archives have talked about this before. I am using a little cream of tarter in my sugar syrup. So far no molds of any kind. Now I use quarts, not gallons as I have had leakage problems in the past. I have a hugh collection of canning jars I got cheep at yard sales etc. I just keep between 3 and 7 jars on the hives as I am feeding/stimualting and switch out the lids depending on what I am trying to do. Dr. Imirie suggested a couple years ago to me that I use 4 holes for stimulation and say 10 -12 holes for feeding which is what I have been doing. Works well for me. Tim Morris South Central Tennessee :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:35:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: How much to feed as the package is installed??? In-Reply-To: <1c9.79998d0.2bba5062@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:16 PM 3/31/03 -0500, you wrote: >with 10 undrawn frames, >HOW MUCH should food should I put in the hive >before closing the top for the first time? That depends on how often you intend on checking in on them. When drawing comb I would make sure that syrup is available at all times. I'd give them a gallon and check on them in 2-3 days. I've seen swarms on foundation consume 2 gallons or more in 3-4 days and built out a deep and medium in good contitions (And in one case, since I couldn't get back to the hive for over a week also they filled the box covering the jars on top. And of course brood in all boxes and the queen ended up in the wild comb at the top, a big mess. >And should I also feed pollen patties? It might help, but shouldn't be necessary if pollen is available in your area. -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:18:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: drawing foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ">And should I also feed pollen patties?" Quick, think of all the situations where bees might need syrup but have plenty of pollen... Stumped? You should be. I can't honestly think of any situation where bees need syrup but would have plenty of pollen. Syrup will cause the bees to significantly expand the brood nest. As you are artificially creating the expansion, it is inconceivable that there will be enough pollen (think, protein). Without sufficient protein, the brood and new bees will not properly develop. The tragedy is that the lack of proper development is not readily visible, but nonetheless it is there. The bees lives will be shortened and they will be considerably lacking in muscle and nerve system development. Gard Otis at the University of Guleph is in the midst of running experiments and preparing papers on this, but he told me nothing will be published until late this year...at the earliest. Be kind to your bees, feed pollen or pollen substitute whenever you feed syrup! Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:20:58 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: steve noble Subject: Re: drawing foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd said: " I can't honestly think of any situation where bees need syrup but would have plenty of pollen." Are there some sources which provide lots of pollen, but which provide fairly low amounts of nectar? Like say Alder trees? I don't know. I read somewhere that Alder pollen is of a rather low quality anyway, but I mention it because it is about the earliest thing around here ( Puget Sound area of Washington). Steve Noble > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:01:35 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Early drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ari Seppala suggests' keep a colony thru the winter headed by an unmated = queen, adding frames of normal brood to keep the population up'. Others = have suggested importing drones from stocks adapted to long warm = seasons, whose genes would surely be ill-suited to short northern = seasons. =20 Surely the drones produced by an unmated, drone-laying queen will be of = poor size, reared in worker cells by a demoralized colony. Would not = the 'natural' way be to overwinter a selected colony in a (gently) = warmed bee-shed with a tunnel entrance to outside, and feed dilute honey = (not sugar) plus pollen patties in spring to force on 'natural colony = development', then insert frames of drone foundation at the edges of the = nest?=20 This is only a suggestion - we have not had to develop this technique in = the more southerly UK climate.=20 Robin Dartington.=20 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:08:10 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Honey Show MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The National Honey Show will be held in Kensington Town Hall, London UK on 13th, 14th & 15th November 2003. For details type National Honey Show into your search engine and follow the links. There should be lots of pictures to show you what to expect. There will also be schedules of classes and details of how to enter your honey, wax etc. Although the title is National, in reality it is international and there are regular entries from around the world including your side of the Atlantic. Many of the top prizes regularly go in your direction but not that distance. So don't just come, enter. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 00:29:37 +0200 Reply-To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Re: Early Drones In-Reply-To: <6d.dd04e91.2bbaeaf5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lionel Evans > Some of the Southern bee breeders would probably ship you a > package of drones > and by the same token, you could get good quality at the same time. Sorry I see this as a polution, affection not only the reciver but all beekeepers/queen breeders around in the recivers area. I would certainly refrain from doing this Myself. A much better way would bee to add some drone foundation and then feed like hell to get the family to rear brood. Best regards Jorn Johanesson Multilingual software for beekeeping since 1997 hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software Now also with date fix and field turned agins american way of beekeeing. http:/apimo.dk/registered_user/new_bidata.htm for updaed screen shoots home page = HTTP://apimo.dk e-mail apimo@apimo.dk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:47:53 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: leftovers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just got a solar melter. It really works great and I haven't even painted it black yet! Here's my question: After it takes the wax from a frame, the leftovers-cocoons, feces,etc., seems like there is still wax in there. Is it safe to compost? Or does it have too much wax left? Thanks in advance for the answers. Kathy Cox :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:57:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: leftovers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Kathy Cox asked about, "leftovers-cocoons, feces,etc." in her solar melter and if it's "safe to compost?" Yup. Sure is. The "leftovers" is called slumgum, and indeed there is still plenty of wax left in it which can be recovered, but it's usually more bother than it's worth for a few-hives operation. Walter T. Kelly, Inc. markets a wax press, which steams and presses slumgum, but again it's not for a few-hives operation. Actually, composting is one of the recommended uses for slumgum in Cornell University's Master Beekeeper course. Aaron Morris - thinking there's more than one way to slum a gum! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 20:43:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mark Walker Subject: Excess Overwintered Honey& Mold... During my spring inspections and medications, I noticed that last years two best hives, which stockpiled lots (14 frames) of honey and two full frames of pollen have dwindled in population dramatically. Both hives are down to less than two full frames of bees. The problem appears to be lack of brood space as a result of this years mild winter and the bees not consuming enough honey. I've replaced the queen, condensed the hives down to one brood box and removed two of the frames of honey and replaced them with two partially emtpy frames from the other box. I hope this does the trick,however, there is stil 6-1/2 full frames of honey in the hive. Q/1... Is this too much and if so what do I do with it? I've also have another dilemma; two brood boxes full of overwintered honey that is no doubt medicated with antibiotics and has been exposed to Formic Acid for a prolonged period. Q2/... What do I do with these frames? Q3/... Do I keep them in storage till I have a hive that needs it and how long can it be stored in the comb before in crystalizes? Q4/... Or should I spin it out, as I need the drawn brood combfor the other hives?If I spin it out, what do I do with the honey? A final concern, is that many of the untouched, overwintered frames of honey have mold growing on the capped comb, as well as in the empty combs. Should this be a concern, or will the bees clean up the mold as I re- introduce the frames of honey back into the hive? Sorry for all the questions, but these two hives have confounded me as they have gone from the strongest to the weakestover winter. I guess there can be "too much honey" stored by the bees! Cheers, Mark Walker. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 20:56:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: drawing foundation In-Reply-To: <000901c2f88c$353e9940$0200000a@paramita> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:20 PM 4/1/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Lloyd said: " I can't honestly think of any situation where bees need syrup >but would have plenty of pollen." There several times of the year where bees gather ample supplies of pollen (and will collect even more if trapping pollen or raising large brood populations), but don't collect a surplus of nectar. Also, often in early spring colonies have a large amount of pollen collected in fall, but no nectar is available to stimulate early brood rearing. This of course varies by area. Fortunately In my area were are blessed with good spring and fall pollen sources, though our main honey season is mid to late summer. I've also found when starting swarms on foundation, their biggest need by far is nectar/sugar syrup. Foragers easily can supply enough pollen, assuming it's available. -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 21:13:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mark Walker Subject: Excess Overwintered Honey & Mold... ...by the way, if it helps. I reside in Delta, British Columbia which is located on the West Coast of Canada near Vancouver. Thanks Again, Mark Walker. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 20:08:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Early Drones Comments: To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jorn suggested: A much better way would bee to add some drone foundation and then feed like hell to get the family to rear brood. I wish the above would work but experience has shown in our area we get drones when the bees want to rear drones. We get early drones at times when the winter has been mild and the tree pollen early Early season queen rearing in Missouri: First comes the problem of mature drones. Second is poor weather for getting queens mated. The Midwest is simply not the best place to raise early queens. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:38:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Early Drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Some of the Southern bee breeders would probably ship you a package of drones and by the same token, you could get good quality at the same time.<< > Sorry I see this as a pollution, affection not only the receiver but all > beekeepers/queen breeders around in the receiver's area. There's an interesting point, and one that is often forgotten. Tough words, but true. Currently, Canada is looking at importing mainland US bee stock again, either as queens or as packages, or as both, and this is one aspect of the possible effects that is often overlooked. We have gradually achieved the ability to winter successfully, predictably, and reliably because we do not -- cannot --get southern US stock any more. Imports are again being considered because some beekeepers want US package bees, remembering the good old days when we bought from California, and because many believe that the pests that closed the border can be managed. The consensus, even among those who do not want packages, is that our southern neighbours do have some stock that could be valuable, particularly the Primorsky stock that has been imported to, and refined in, Baton Rouge. It has many desirable characteristics, including very good wintering. Coumaphos resistant mites may keep the border closed, but before we import, the above point is one we should consider carefully as well. We have experience from our own past, and current reports from the US, that a lot of the southern US package stock is not very reliable when it comes to wintering in northern areas. Consequently, if we are not selective, and some beekeepers import that stock, the imports could adversely affect their neighbours who winter by flooding the area with bad wintering stock to the point where everyone could again become dependant on annual packages! Consider this: it is not at all to a package producer's benefit to produce bees that winter well in the north. It took us years to achieve good wintering after being cut off from packages. Some may say that we are importing southern stock (Hawaiian stock and Australian stock, and new Zealand stock), and that is true. Nonetheless, the Hawaiian stock is bred for wintering from NWC stock, and with some feedback and selection from wintering zones, and the Aus stock I have had -- for whatever reason -- just happens to be good wintering stock. As for the NZ bees, the nicest thing I can say about any I had (a small sample, granted), other than that I admired their pretty colour, is that they almost all died in their first winter. They are not as popular as the others. All this is not to say that there is not some good wintering stock in the southern US commercial lines, but we recently saw graphically, thanks to Jose, how variable the commercial stock is in tracheal tolerance. We can only guess that wintering capability is equally variable, even in the queens from any one producer! I wonder how much of the loss in the Northeast US this winter was due to southern stock? allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com Retired commercial beekeeper :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:09:47 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: a different slant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All Lloyd was discussing feeding of pollen patties when he said... > I can't honestly think of any situation where bees > need syrup but would have plenty of pollen. > Syrup will cause the bees to significantly expand > the brood nest. As you are artificially creating the > expansion, it is inconceivable that there will be > enough pollen (think, protein). Without sufficient > protein, the brood and new bees will not properly > develop. Now in the area and climate of the UK, we see this a little differently... If we feed an early 'stimulative dose' of syrup to a developing colony, we do so to alter the ratio of bees foraging for pollen and nectar. By providing the syrup, more bees are available for pollen collection, which in turn brings in more pollen from natural sources. We believe that this natural pollen is better than patties or supplements, that is not to say that pollen patties, soya flour and yeast derivatives are not used, but that the emphasis is a little different. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:12:03 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ben Smith Subject: Re: leftovers In-Reply-To: <5AF61A7A68D97645B968E3F6F7D069A1018094@email.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu [mailto:BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu]On > Behalf Of Aaron Morris > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 1:58 AM > To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu > Subject: Re: [BEE-L] leftovers > > > Kathy Cox asked about, "leftovers-cocoons, feces,etc." in her solar melter > and if it's "safe to compost?" > It also makes a fantastic firelighter for coal/wood fires, every bit as good as the ones you buy. Ben. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 00:01:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ken Parker Subject: Best area in US for Beekeeping I am curious to know if anyone has an opinion about where the best area in the US might be for beekeeping; mainly where is the most prolonged nectar flow allowing for the greatest honey production. Ken Parker :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:09:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rick Drutchas Subject: early drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm surprised nobody has mentioned seeing overwintered drones in their = hives. Maybe my memory is failing me or I was just convinced that drones = were not kept through the winter, but it seems to me it use to be I = didn't see drones in March in Vermont. The last maybe 5 years or so I = see plenty of drones in strong queenright hives. Could be I just never = noticed them and they where always there or its cause of the strips or = maybe the breed. I cant be the only one out here seeing this. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:23:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Marc Studebaker Subject: Re: Early Drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The Midwest is simply not the best place to raise early queens. The best way I have found to produce early drones is to feed a large colony a constant supply of natural pollen patties all winter. Make sure you have plenty of drone comb in the colony. I usually have drones in early march. Marc Studebaker Geneva, IN :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:24:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: muses Subject: winter losses in NE USA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My pretty caliornia bees, (yellow) were the first to die off. I was wondering the exact same point. But with the sheers size of cal. who would know which part they came from? Still, dead is dead. Im going to try to rebuild the stock from the sucessfully overwintering hives. My efforts to find a swarm that over wintered on their own will also be redoubled! This brings back the point of the old timers swearing by italian stock. It gives me great respect for those doing genetic work. NW PA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:33:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Green Subject: Re: Excess Overwintered Honey& Mold... In-Reply-To: <200304020143.h321hasa000153@listserv.albany.edu> From: Mark Walker > During my spring inspections and medications, I noticed that last years > two best hives, which stockpiled lots (14 frames) of honey and two full > frames of pollen have dwindled in population dramatically. Both hives are > down to less than two full frames of bees. The problem appears to be lack > of brood space as a result of this years mild winter and the bees not > consuming enough honey. Replacing the queens was a good idea, as they may be worn out, or it may be simply poor stock. I'd also check carefully for both mites. But this also may be an example of a situation I have often warned about in the fall. If the brood chamber is allowed to plug up and the queen cannot lay that last round of brood, you go into winter with old bees instead of young ones. Many beekeepers remove all supers before the last generation of brood to treat for varroa. The bees become honeybound on the goldenrod flow, and the queen shuts down early. The young bees of the last fall generation are physiologically different. Without them, bees overwinter poorly. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:33:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Green Subject: Re: drawing foundation In-Reply-To: <006101c2f861$f81f6b40$1d256118@newdell> From: Lloyd Spear > Quick, think of all the situations where bees might need syrup but have > plenty of pollen... > > Stumped? You should be. I can't honestly think of any situation where > bees need syrup but would have plenty of pollen. Ummmm...winter in much of the southeast? Despite one of the coldest winters on record here in SC, we had continuous bloom of charnack (wild radish, often called wild mustard), which is a poor nectar producer that makes large quantities of high quality pollen. This plant will bloom twelve months of the year, but becomes significant to the bees from December to April. Henbit, another good pollen producer has been blooming, with increasing amounts, since about the first of January. Bees always brood up well, when these two plants are available. In early spring we also have copius quantities of willow, alder, and maple to add. It's almost a glut of pollen, and all natural, all high quality. I think pollen supplements here, at this time, are redundant. If the pollen sources were of poor quality (as with citrus, sourwood or cotton), pollen supplement might be needed to keep them raising brood. Generally though, beekeepers move them to a good pollen source after a pollen-poor flow, or there is a natural succession of better pollen plants. Pollen supplements might also be good if bees are unable to forage for extended periods, but bad weather periods of more than a few days are rare here. The point is that I quickly thought of a pollen rich/nectar poor situation that is very ordinary for us. Conditions vary according to region and local flora, so beekeepers are wise to keep in touch with local beekeepers to learn what others are learning, and see what works in their own area. I found that, in moving a long distance, I had to learn beekeeping all over again. Dave SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com (may soon be down briefly for some maintanance) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:24:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Yoonytoons Subject: Re: Early Drones Keith, Another soulution perhaps could be Artificial Insemination from the drones you capture whenever they are abundant: catch them, milk them, and freeze- store it until you thaw and use it. [Check the net about the detail] Perhaps this procedure will mainatain the gene/stock you desire. Yoon Caught in the transitional hell winds Republic of Oklahoma :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:21:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: early drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I'm surprised nobody has mentioned seeing overwintered drones > in their hives. One of Steve Taber's favorite stories is about the time he challenged Dr. Farrar about drones in the winter. Steve adamantly stated bees kick out ALL drones in the fall and there are NO WINTER DRONES. As he tells the story, Dr. Farrar in response assigned him the task (Steve was a grad student at the time) of going out to a Minnesota hive in the dead of winter, pull apart a cluster of bees and count the drones. Dr. Farrar sacrificed a colony to prove to his student that bees keep drones around, even in winter. I wonder how the bees choose which drones to keep and which to evict? But I never state there are NO WINTER DRONES. In fact, I challenged that assertion on my master beekeeper exam, and won! Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:19:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Feeding pollen/supplements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Green said "we had continuous bloom of charnack (wild radish, often called wild mustard), which is a poor nectar producer that makes large quantities of high quality pollen." Well, there are always exceptions! Dave is entirely correct when he says that generalizations must be modified to fit local conditions. I have been taught that plants that rely on animals (including birds and insects) to transfer pollen always produce copious amounts of nectar in order to entice pollinators. Of those plants listed by Dave, I have not heard other commentary on wild mustard or henbit. Up here in the Northeast, alder is wind pollinated as are most willows. Soft maples are copious producers of high quality pollen and nectar. In fact, the soft maple situation in the Northeast is one that I was referencing where the bees are ill-served by being fed syrup and not also being fed pollen. Here in the Northeast soft maple is blooming 'now' (when days are warm enough) and the brood nests are rapidly expanding based on that bloom. However, the bloom will be over in a couple of weeks and there will not be another similar bloom until early May (dandelions). Many, many hives die during this period, some say more than die during the winter as the bees feed brood until they run out of honey and then both the bees and the brood die. Knowing this, much syrup is fed during this 2-3 week period from the end of maple bloom until the beginning of dandelion bloom. However, any hive that does not have enough nectar/honey to last this period almost certainly does not have enough pollen. It is extremely unlikely that the bees failed to collect enough nectar in the fall to last through this dearth, but did collect enough pollen. Think about it! If syrup is fed without pollen the bees and the brood are both likely to survive until dandelion, but the bees resulting from the brood will be of poor quality, will be poor foragers, and will doom 1-2 subsequent generations to having the same characteristics. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:46:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Best area in US for Beekeeping During this month and last, I think it would be hard to beat the areas of central and southern California specifically around the eucalyptus. Hives which have never been fed during the winter regularly produce a super every two weeks. I must say that this is only (at least for me) in hives in the immediate vicinity of large eucalyptus trees. The other hives have only produced exess honey at about 1 super per month. The draw back is when you only get 15 to 20 inches of rain per year, the summer months aren't so good unless you are around irrigated crops which aren't sprayed too much, like citrus and avocados, or in a town where gardens supply honey. I would say that for a stationary non-feed hive, one could count on 175 pounds per year or so on average, and I know areas with long winters but much more rain get more. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:52:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Vital Gaudreau Subject: In my area we are blessed... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Tim wrote: >Fortunately In my area we are blessed with good spring and fall pollen sources, though our main honey season is mid to late summer< May I suggest to the list that it would be much easier for everyone if people would identify that "my area" right away since all beekeeping is local but quite different in Georgia than Alberta for exemple...where the main honey season varies considerably...in time. Thank you Vital Gaudreau Sainte-Therese, Quebec, Canada _________________________________________________________________ MSN Search, le moteur de recherche qui pense comme vous ! http://fr.ca.search.msn.com/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:04:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Layne Westover Subject: Re: leftovers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>> LovemgrFan@AOL.COM 04/01/03 06:47PM >>> Is it safe to compost? Or does it have too much wax left? Kathy Cox >From my personal experience, it is both safe to compost and composts very easily. I keep a plastic trash can inverted with the bottom cut out and a lid over the bottom in which to put my vegetable compost. Soldier flies oviposit in this and the soldier fly larvae take down my vegetable refuse in very short order when the weather is warm and they are active. I place the container next to whatever tree or shrub I wish to "feed" with the organic waste compost (this would be called "cold composting" by some) and the nutrients leach into the soil under the container. When I put slum gum (leftovers from my solar wax melter) into it, the soldier fly larvae quickly cover it and eat it and it disappears with the rest of the material, wax and all. They love it. Layne Westover College Station, Texas, Les Etats Unis de l'Amerique :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:16:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: early drones In-Reply-To: <004a01c2f910$b827e350$7f8279a5@rickWG5N33DUTV> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > in March in Vermont. I see plenty of drones in strong queenright > hives. Could be I just never noticed them and they where always there or > its cause of the strips or maybe the breed. I cant be the only one out > here seeing this. I'm also seeing this (in Vermont). Seems like they're always dark colored drones...doesn't it? Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:13:28 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: early drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> I'm surprised nobody has mentioned seeing overwintered drones >> in their hives. > But I never state there are NO WINTER DRONES. There question is also discussed in these BEE-L archives fairly extensively, so most of us old guys haven't said much. Although some hives and some years are harder on drones than others, good beekeepers with well-fed, mature hives will usually have some drones all winter. The next question to the master beekeepers out there is this: Are those drones any good for mating queens by the time spring comes around? allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com 4 inches of snow coming... :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:30:40 +0300 Reply-To: superbee Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: superbee Subject: Early drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Indeed, one of the biggest problems in queen breeding is the supply of = enough drones that are well bred and of high quality. If we have been = selecting our stockand included in the selection characters is = non-swarming, then the problem becomes even bigger, as well bred, = non-swarming bees are not keen to raise large drone populations. Drone = quality is more important than actual numbers, this becomes very obvious = when a.i. is done. Very often the quantity of semen is small and in = many cases virtually non-existant. It is hard for any colony to raise = more than about 1,000 drones of good quantity. It should be remember at = all times that drones are there to mate with virgin queens and they are = produced when the colony is approaching swarming or supersedure mode. = Therefore, one way to "push" a colony to rear drones is to add sealed = brood to it, as much as possible and as early as possible and to feed = all the time with warm sugar/honey syrup. The feeding of pollen patties = (not substitute) is also important. Colonies treated thus are likely to = go into swarming mode early and rear a good population of quality drones = at an early date. Best regards Roger White Superbee Cyprus. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:39:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: early drones Comments: cc: "chip@ukans.edu" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Are those (over wintered) drones any good for mating queens by the time spring comes > around? Hmmm. Dunno. Speculation (based on Frasier the lion), yes absolutely! Postulation based on the fact that things are fine in the queen's spermatheca, yup. Although the drones may be treated quite differently in the winter cluster than is the queen, so perhaps it is incorrect to postulate the condition of a drone's sperm based on the queen's sperm. SWAGulation: Overwintered drones are old and tired and need viagra to get it up! I think it's probably moot because few if any will get the chance to rise to the occasion. I wonder if DCAs (drone congregation areas) form in early spring? Anyone? This whole conversation hints to me the wisdom of mid-summer nucs to overwinter rather than trying to get early spring drones to mate with early season queens. Aaron Morris - thinking my exam scores say I'm a master, my bees this spring say otherwise. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:52:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kim Flottum Subject: Slumgum mulch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain For what ist's worth, the USDA Honey Bee Lab in Madison, about 20+ years ago, did a large, controled study using various amounts of composted slumgum as a mulch for vegetables. (composted by this definition was that it had sat outside, in a large pile, for at least 2 years). We used small plots with tomatoes, peppers, sweet corn, zukes, and green and lima beans. We used rates of slumgum at 100 lbs/ac., 200 lbs./ac and 500 lbs./ac. (of course we didn't use that much because the plots were small). Other treatments were straw mulch, peatmoss as a soil amendment, composted leaves at the same rates, all with fertilizer at soil analysis recommended rates, all without fertilizer and fertilizer only. Across the board the plots with slumgum out performed comparable plots in yield, vigor (measured as health of the plants relative to pests and disease), earliness of production and length of production. Bottom line, if you have a lot of this stuff, it works well as a soil amendment for vegetable gardens. Kim Flottum Editor, BeeCulture 623 West Liberty Street Medina, Ohio 44256 V - 800.289.7668 Ext 3214 Fax - 330.725.5624 Kim@BeeCulture.com www.BeeCulture.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 18:07:02 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: early drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Aaron & all > bees keep drones around, even in winter. I wonder > how the bees choose which drones to keep and which to evict? I have a feeling (no proof) that the drones that are kept are raised after chucking out time for the rest. They are not there in large numbers, but they are there... I do wonder about the viability of these overwintered drones. Does anyone know of any testing that has been done regarding this? I have popped a few and only about half had semen. Not having any virgin queens available I was unable to test whether or not the semen was up to mating standard. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:29:44 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: Slumgum mulch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/2/2003 9:10:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, kim@BEECULTURE.COM writes: > Bottom line, if you have a lot of this stuff, it works well as a soil > amendment for vegetable gardens. Kim, that is terrific! I have award winning dahlias that I'm going to give this slum gum (How did it get this name???). I will give it to the vegetable garden, too. Kathy :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:21:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Green Subject: The FLOW is ON in coastal SC! Whatta day! The normal hiss of the bee yard rose quickly this morning to a crescendo. I woulda thought a swarm was leaving, if it hada happened a couple weeks ago. There were so many bees in the air! But they were a haulin' it in! We had scattered frost yesterday morning, and expected some damage, but there doesn't seem to be any. Cherry is in bloom, and being heavily worked, as is dewberry. There's also toadflax, wisteria, some remaining plum, and a whole lot of other things. When you tilt a frame to look at the brood you get a sticky pant leg. The bees totally ignored me as I worked, almost to the point where it was hurting my feelings. Then about 4:30 I came to a hive that didn't ignore me, and I felt better. Dave in SC USA (Retired beekeeper, but they still allow me on the premises) The Pollination Page: http://pollinator.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 02:56:06 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: How much to feed as the package is installed??? Paul Law asked: >> with 10 undrawn frames, >> HOW MUCH should food should I put in the hive >> before closing the top for the first time? and Tim Arheit said: > That depends on how often you intend on checking in on them. > When drawing comb I would make sure that syrup is available > at all times. I'd give them a gallon and check on them in 2-3 days. I'll go further, and ask "how big is your biggest feeder?" Whatever it is, fill it up. I've never seen an overweight bee, and neither will you. There simply is no such thing as "over-feeding", moreso when the bees need to draw comb. > I also have a bordman feeder, > a 1/2 gallon jug with feeder holes cut in the top > and a tray feeder. "Boardman" feeders are junk. Return it to the criminal enterprise that misrepresented it as "beekeeping supplies" and demand a full refund. Boardman feeders have been found by all and sundry to have no discernable use in beekeeping. Boardman feeders may be of occasional use to USDA scientists wanting to do in-depth studies of robbing behavior, as there is no quicker way to get a good robbing frenzy started than to install a Boardman on a weak colony or a split/package/nuc. It's much like parking an armored car with the doors swung wide open in one's driveway. Such actions tend to attract the criminal element, or spawn the dynamic development of an ad-hoc opportunistic criminal element which otherwise would not exist. Supply houses that include Boardman feeders in beginner kits should be required by law to send an employee to the home of each purchaser to refill the darned things at the roughly 6-hour intervals that they are emptied by even the weakest hive. The "division board" or "in-the-hive" frame-type feeders are "Broken As Designed", or "B.A.D.". While they hold more than the Boardmans (a gallon, as I recall), they end up being a burr-comb repository when forgotten or left unfilled for even a few days. Why? 'Cause they are in the brood chamber, right next to other frames! Even when used with style and panache by hyper-attentive beekeepers, they create a problem, as when they are removed by the new beekeeper, they force him/her to replace it with an undrawn frame, often long after the opportunity to draw comb has passed. (Why? Because new beekeepers do not tend to have "extra" drawn comb!) The entire concept of "division board" feeders appears to be based upon the sort of logic that only a beekeeper could appreciate: 1) I want to draw comb. 1a) New colonies need to be fed to draw comb. 2) But the feeder replaces one of the frames! 2a) Just remove one of the frames. 3) But when done feeding, I replace it with what? 3a) The undrawn frame. 4) But then how do I draw THAT frame??? 4a) Just remove one of the frames... Many people have been saying good things about the styrofoam hive-top feeders. This may be the first universally-liked "plastic" item in all of beekeeping. Hive-top feeders hold 3 to 4 gallons. The traditional wooden hive-top feeders have a traditional habit of leaking. A drawback with any hive-top feeder is getting the feed to the feeder, which means a transport feed container and pumping or pouring the feed into the feeder. The general drawback to styrofoam as a material in beekeeping is the sudden and highly entertaining phase-change catalyzed by placing a lit smoker on top of, or even close to any styrofoam item. The styrofoam changes directly from a solid to a gas. I like the one-gallon "plastic bucket" style feeders, as they are unbreakable, they can be filled directly from one's feed mixing vat, will not slosh around or spill when being transported, stack nicely without complaining, and can be swapped for an empty feeder bucket in seconds. They are even dishwasher-safe, but be advised that YOU may not be "dishwasher-safe" if your significant other finds that you are now using even the dishwasher for your propolis-covered beekeeping stuff. Another drawback is that one needs to scrounge up an empty deep or a pair of mediums to enclose the bucket, but this is a good use for the supers that you bought used only to find that they are too ratty to use in production, or are extreme violators of bee space due to sloppy fabrication. It is the sole use I have for "deeps", which I am prevented from lifting due to religious affiliation. I am devoutly lazy when it comes to heavy lifting. jim (Who is happy to report that Sunday's snow melted Monday, and budding, blooming and growing continues in the mountains of Virginia. God's press release about the surprise snow storm stated that there is no proof that it was Coalition snow, but also states that even the new "smart snow" can be subject to targeting errors, anti-aircraft fire, and so on. A representative of Hizbollah took credit for the surprise snowstorm, calling it a "strike against the Great Satan". He added "Who needs nuclear weapons when even a mere half inch of snow on Washington DC can shut down the US Federal government for days?" A CNN/Time Magazine instant-poll revealed that 86% of people asked were in favor of shutting down the federal government, at least until the next election...) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:32:13 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: early drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Aaron & all > I wonder if DCAs (drone congregation areas) > form in early spring? One of the reasons that UK strains recover quickly from hybridisation with non native strains is the difference in mating strategy that occurs under cool, marginal conditions. Those strains that have the propensity for AVM (Apiary Vicininity Mating) will win out by mating like with like. The 'foreign' virgin queens will lose out waiting for good enough weather for the drone assemblies to form. http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/avm.html http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/matingbehaviour.html > so perhaps it is incorrect to postulate the condition > of a drone's sperm based on the queen's sperm Aaron is right here... The activity and longevity of sperm in a queen's spermatheca is due to secretions added by the queen and possibly the oxygen supplied by the tracheal net. We are looking to duplicate the secretions for use as semen diluent in order to produce homogenised semen that will last in storage tubes much longer than it does at present. I suspect that once full drone maturity has been reached, that there is a gradual tail off of viability, but I have no handles on the shape of the curve other than a guess that it is an exponential form. I lifted the following sentance from one of my pages http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/semenviability.html Semen can be stored for six to eight weeks at room temperature, with a gradual reduction in viability. After 9 months this viability is reduced to 50%. (half life? is 18 months 25%?) In this sentance I speculate on some figures, can anyone provide any more accurate or properly researched figures? Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 06:13:20 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Paul D. Law (aka Dennis)" Subject: Boardman feeders for water? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/3/03 5:54:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, jfischer@SUPERCOLLIDER.COM writes: >"Boardman" feeders are junk. < One of the books I picked up to learn about beekeeping (The Beekeeper's Handbook) says the only use for the Bordman feeder is to provide water to bees to keep them from visiting you neighbors swimming pool. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 06:49:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Best area in US for Beekeeping In-Reply-To: <200304020502.h324ljte005219@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > I am curious about where the best area in >the US might be for beekeeping; mainly where is the most prolonged nectar >flow allowing for the greatest honey production. >Ken Parker I keep bees on the Canadian border area of Vermont and New York. After the spring blooming of trees with its rush of pollen, the colonies have an explosive build-up, that parallels the same explosive build-up of the area's flora. Our flow often starts with Black Locust in early June, and continues throughout the summer, ending with Goldenrod and Aster. Averages of 100 pounds or more are common. As there are several distinct flows...Clovers...Basswood...Sweet Clover...ets...if one or more fail to yield, it seems at least one will yield a crop. In those years, an average crop of 60 to 100 pounds can be harvested. In good years, when each flow in turn yields, truly massive crops can be realized. 2002 was one of those years. Even nucs made a good crop, with many producing 150 lbs. Every area has its bad years, but I must say, that doesn't happen very often here. Our last true crop failure was in 1986. That year I produced only 2.5 ton from about 900 colonies, and I had to take a winter job to pay the bills. Conversely, in the last four years the bees have produced 168 tons total from the same number of colonies in the same yards. I love keeping bees in the north, where bees and beekeepers all get a winter rest from production...they sleep...I ski. What a life! Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 05:04:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: early drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > We are looking to > duplicate the secretions for use as semen diluent in order to produce > homogenised semen that will last in storage tubes much longer than it > does at present. Anita Collins of the USDA made presentations at several recent meetings about new ways she has discovered/developed for long-term storgae of drone semen. At least that is what I think she was talking about, 'cause, not being interested, I was on my way to coffee. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 07:08:41 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Morris Subject: Southern Tennessee Report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Henbit and other weeds have been available for some time here. Bradfords are done and the Redbuds are in full bloom. Dogwood is spotty at present. Fruit trees are about to bud with some peachs already blooming. As I am used to Ga time frames, I look forward to seeing what blooms when next. Hives which went into winter small and lacking stores due to neglect on the part of the person watching them are coming around nicely. I am having to super several at present due to a nasty problem of excess bees. Nice to see that nasty problem too. Will list more plants as they become available. Tim Morris South Central Tennessee :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 15:13:13 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: early drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All Allen Dick said... > Anita Collins of the USDA made presentations at several recent meetings > about new ways she has discovered/developed for long-term storgae of > drone semen. > > At least that is what I think she was talking about, 'cause, not being > interested, I was on my way to coffee. Thanks for the tip Allen, I have spent half an hour or so reading the easly accessible stuff that she has written. I shall be contacting her about the details in some of her work, which has strong parallels with what a few of us are 'playing with' in UK. It highlights the point that not all beekeepers think alike. We have a bunch of dedicated amateurs in the UK (we call ourselves IINGRIDD) that research and practice new methods of instrumental insemination and try and teach them to others. There is a page that will lead you to many different aspects of II, with links to groups that practice it, methods of making the equipment, methods of using the equipment and so on. http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/instrumental.html I realise that this is not to everybodies taste, but it does show how diverse beekeeping is as a subject. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:47:10 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Best area in US for Beekeeping > ...where the best area in the US might be for beekeeping; > mainly where is the most prolonged nectar flow allowing > for the greatest honey production. The length of the flow is not as important as the strength of the flow. Any beekeeper in Alberta Canada is good proof of this, as many of them are not migratory, and they have a "season" shorter than some vacations I have taken. Since many larger US beekeepers are migratory, one can ask "where do they go after they pollinate the almonds?" Many go to the Dakotas, Iowa, and other places in the "Great Plain" between the Mississippi and the Rockies. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:23:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Wiebe Subject: Wax Moth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been looking for the physical size of and color pictures of The Greater Wax Moth. I've found lots of larva pictures but can't seem to find any in the flying stage. Any suggestions? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:15:38 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: early drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Thanks for the tip Allen, I have spent half an hour or so reading the > easly accessible stuff that she has written. Glad I thought to mention it. I almost didn't. Exchanges like this are possibly the greatest strength of this list -- many eyes and ears in many countries and on several continents. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:42:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eleanor Musarurwa Subject: Overseas Volunteer Opportunities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is for those list serv members who may be interested in volunteering their time and expertise to help struggling farmers in Southern Africa. Hi my name is Eleanor Musarurwa and I am a recruiter for CNFA's Agribusiness Volunteer Program. The Agribusiness Volunteer Program, that brings American agriculturalists together with African farmers to transfer technical know-how and increase farmers productivity and incomes. CNFA is an implementer of the Farmer-to-Farmer that is administered by the United States Agency for International Development (USAID).The FTF Program has been a winner of the Presidential Hunger Award and been recognized as being successful in providing efficient and cost-effective assistance. I am contacting you in the hope that many of you might be interested in participating in our exciting program. I am currently recruiting volunteers for three beekeeping assignments in Zimbabwe: Applied Marketing: Train the members of a beekeepers association and the staff of a local NGO to identify new markets; negotiate contracts, create a marketing plan. Plant Management: Train the members of beekeepers' association and the staff of a local NGO to better manage honey processing plant, explore alternative honey processing techniques and technology and develop operational plans. Hive-Cost Construction: Train the members beekeeping association and the staff of a local NGO to explore appropriate hives and hive construction, reduce hive construction costs, and promote sustainable development All 3 assignments are three weeks long. CNFA covers all the volunteer's expenses(airfare, lodging, transportation, food, travel insurance ), makes all the logistical arrangements and provides a translator. The volunteer provides his/her time and expertise. In compliance with program regulations, participation in this program is limited to US citizens. It is a great opportunity to travel and extend your agricultural expertise to farmers in other countries. If you are interested in any of these assignments, or know someone in your networks that may be, please feel free to call or send a resume/cv or biographical sketch to: Eleanor Musarurwa at: email:emusarurwa@cnfa.org ;PHONE: 1-888-872-2632;FAX: 202-296-3948 We are always looking for new volunteers! Thank you, Eleanor http://www.cnfa.org :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:24:28 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Hamilton Subject: Wax Mouth pic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I have one www.libertybee.com/waxmoth.htm Dave >I've been looking for the physical size of and color pictures of The >Greater Wax Moth. I've found lots of larva pictures but can't seem to >find any in the flying stage. >Any suggestions? _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:21:01 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: WARNING => Overseas Volunteer "Opportunities" Ms. Eleanor Musarurwa said: > ... help struggling farmers in Southern Africa. > ... CNFA's Agribusiness Volunteer Program... > I am currently recruiting volunteers for > three beekeeping assignments in Zimbabwe: This sounds like a fine program. I hope someday to become worthy of consideration for participation. But Zimbabwe? Here's what the US State Department says to people who might be considering a trip to Zimbabwe. Be sure to read the line about "farms". Understand that land ownership, specifically farms, are a very touchy subject there. Have been for about a year. People are dying over farms. http://travel.state.gov/zimbabwe_warning.html "This information is current as of today, Thu Apr 03 19:33:25 2003. ZIMBABWE This Travel Warning is being issued to alert Americans to the political, economic and humanitarian crises in Zimbabwe. The Department of State warns U.S. citizens of the risks of travel to Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is in the midst of political, economic, and humanitarian crises with serious implications for the security situation in the country. All U.S. citizens in Zimbabwe are urged to take those measures they deem appropriate to ensure their well being, including consideration of departure from the country. Approximately half the population of Zimbabwe faces an urgent food crisis and possible famine. The humanitarian crisis is expected to worsen in coming months and may lead to unrest and possible large-scale migration of Zimbabweans to urban or border areas, with further disruption and an increase in crime and instability. Commercial farms should be avoided at all times, especially those occupied by settlers or so-called "war veterans," who are typically young government supporters acting with impunity outside the law. In November 2002, U.S. Embassy staff members were detained and one was beaten by war veterans on a farm near Harare...." Here's a entire section of recent news on Zimbabwe, from papers in South Africa: http://www.iol.co.za/html/news/zimbabwe/index.php jim (who fills up passports before they expire) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:47:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jason Buchanan Subject: Re: Source for free One Gallon Glass jars In-Reply-To: <15d.1dc7b6fa.2bba5060@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul D. Law (aka Dennis) wrote: >I've just been reading the list for a couple of >weeks while getting ready to start beekeeping >with one hive in Brooklyn, NY. > >I've found you can get one gallon bottles from >Blimpies if you ask them to save them for you. > > I was lucky - I went to the neighborhood Korean grocery store and was able to get two 1 gallon jars and lids - well, I ate the kimchi in one of them, the other was already empty thanks to the store owner ;-) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:49:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jason Buchanan Subject: Re: The FLOW is ON in coastal SC! In-Reply-To: <3E8B5468.5548.7F70B1@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Green wrote: > Whatta day! The normal hiss of the bee yard rose quickly this >morning to a crescendo. I woulda thought a swarm was leaving, if it >hada happened a couple weeks ago. There were so many bees in the air! >But they were a haulin' it in! > > Must be nice. It's 26 degrees outside, supposed to get an inch of ice tonight and nightly temperatures dipping into the 20s-30s for the next 15 days. Insane. Waving a transplanted-from-Missouri hand from Boxboro, Mass., west of Boston about 30 minutes... :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:39:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Re: The FLOW is ON in coastal SC! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Dave Green wrote: > > > Whatta day! The normal hiss of the bee yard rose quickly this > >morning to a crescendo. I woulda thought a swarm was leaving, if it > >hada happened a couple weeks ago. There were so many bees in the air! > >But they were a haulin' it in! Glad someone is seeing the girls fly. I just jealous of course. It's snowing,blowing and down right cold here in south eastern Ontario Canada Kent Stienburg. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:24:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eleanor Musarurwa Subject: Re: WARNING => Overseas Volunteer "Opportunities" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit List serve members, I have received some very good responses and questions about volunteer security and Zimbabwe and below please find CNFA's response: CNFA believes it is important to maintain its commitment to the people of Zimbabwe in light of the heightened difficulties that many of the rural poor are facing in the country. We understand and welcome your questions about our decision and ability to guarantee volunteer security Zimbabwe. We understand those concerns and wanted to reply to you all immediately. Whilst I and our field staff and our previous volunteers to Zimbabwe can all assure you that the information from the State Department website is not at all representative of the on the ground conditions in the country, I can appreciate that many of you may be feeling unsure. The area in which this assignment is based is near a small town called Nyanga (Eastern Highlands) and the volunteers will be supported throughout the assignment by our field staff and the Zimbabwe Farmers' Development Trust (ZFDT) staff whilst they are on assignment. Once again, I can tell you that CNFA would not send our volunteers in to a place that was dangerous or where volunteers would be unnecessarily at risk. Our program is a volunteer program and depends heavily on ensuring the safety and well-being of our volunteer experts. However, Zimbabwe is a country with a great deal of poverty and that affects how the country and its' people live and work. I would say please try and contact recent previo! us volunteers (I have listed them below) and speak to American agriculturalists like yourselves that have first hand experience of the country. You can also contact me directly and I can help out with any concerns you may have- if after that, you still feel uncomfortable with our decision to send volunteers to the country please let me know. I prefer that volunteers that travel to the region on CNFA assignments are entirely comfortable, the last thing I want is to have a volunteer feel uncomfortable or afraid whilst their in country - they wouldn't enjoy the experience. I hope everything works out and many of you will still consider the volunteer opportunities! If you need to discuss the country and our program in southern Africa (South Africa, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Malawi and Mozambique) in more detail please feel free to contact me directly at 1-888-872-2632 (toll-free). Kindest regards, Eleanor Musarurwa Eleanor S. Musarurwa CNFA Program Coordinator, Small Enterprise Development 1111 19th Street NW, Suite 900 Washington, DC 20036 1-888-872-2632 202-296-3920 202-296-3948 fax -CNFA VOLUNTEERS TO ZIMBABWE: Previous Project Volunteers: Smallholder Beekeepers Association of Zimbabwe (SBAZ):(the beekeeping Project) Volunteer Home Phone E -mail Gerald Burchett 270-928-4003 gbee@ziggycom.net Dave Brown 410-742-0902 dabrown@salisbruy.edu Terrill Christensen 208 357 3704 terrillc@juno.com Dr. Zacch Olorunnipa 850-599-3729 Zacch.olurunnipa@famu.edu Bob Cole 336-877-1321 bobcole@skybest.com Recent Volunteers to Zimbabwe: FY 02 Volunteer Home Phone Office Phone E-mail Gerald Burchett 270-928-4003 gbee@ziggycom.net Dave Brown 410-742-0902 dabrown@salisbruy.edu John Semida 301-894-8265 semidaj@trinitydc.edu Sterling Brown 801-334-8946 Scb@sisna.com Betty Houbion 847-913-0501 bhoubion@aol.com George Paris 334-727-9443 promo@agi.state.al.us :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 05:16:08 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Wm. Beasley" Subject: How much feeding to draw comb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A newbie question here. I understand that either a nectar flow or active feeding (e.g. sugar syrup) is necessary to get the bees to draw out new comb. I'm starting two nucs, and expect to feed them until the foundation is drawn out and filled for two deeps; local beekeepers tell me that two deeps is the standard wintering configuration here in NE Ohio. Assuming that this process is completed I expect to move on to a (medium) honey super, which is all foundation since that's all I have. As near as I can tell, I should continue feeding the hive at that point to get them to draw out the medium... how do I handle it so that I don't end up with sugar syrup honey in the process of trying to get the comb drawn for the first time? Unless I'm missing something, it appears that the question will then repeat for each new honey super I need to introduce, until I have enough frames of drawn comb to get me through the season. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:49:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: WARNING => Overseas Volunteer "Opportunities" With 9 years experience beekeeping in Southern Africa, I will respond. First, in the rural areas of Southern Africa, crimes of violence are low as long as you are not a farmer. If you are a farmer, you have a greater chance of violent crime against your person or your family than most other areas of the world. Note, this does not apply to Botswana. Second, the beekeeping industry in South Africa is very advanced. It is first world standard, and it's industry supplies everything a beekeeper needs. There really is not much foreigners can teach South Africans that they can't learn in their own country. This applies also to Namibia, and would also apply to Zimbabwe were in not for the fact that the government of Zimbabwe has organized the destruction of modern agriculture in that land. Note. The rural Bantu people of Southern Africa are on the whole generally very polite and charming. Please feel free to contact me in person if anyone has questions. tvaughan@charter.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:54:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > ... I expect to move on to a > (medium) honey super ... > I should continue feeding the hive at that point > to get them to draw out the medium... Not unless you want a honey super filled with cured sygar syrup. When your nucs have drawn two deepe, stop feeding and give them the honey super of foundation if they need it (ie, if there's a flow on). How does a newbie know if/when there's a flow on? Ask a local beekeeper. Based on the draw at the annual Ohio beekeepers meeting, I'm sure there is not a lack of local beekeepers near you. When you meet the local beekeeper, ask them about a local beekeeping association, join and attend. This last advice is a chicken and egg thing. You might seek out a local association, join and attend, and meet MANY local beekeepers. But back to your question, stop feeding when your bees have filled both deeps. Upstate New York nucs (assuming they are quality nucs) that are continuously fed in most years will have drawn the second deep somewhere in thr sweet clover flow (June/July) and may be wanting more space. If this sounds like fuzzy advice, well it is! In April no one knows what the flows will be like in June/July. AND you won't actually want to wait until the second deep is completely drawn, you want to stay ahead if your bees. Remember, if you get behind in youe bees' schedule, BEES SWARM! And if you stay even with your bees' schedule, then your behind! Have your medium super of drawn foundation ready before your bees look like they need it, What are you doing today? Today would be a good day to get that super ready. Seriously. When will they need it? I don't know, maybe not until next year! If you're staying ahead of your bees and it's a good season, probably June. Possibly July. Hopefully, but not out of the question they won't need it this year. Can I be more vague? Certainly! Bees vary. Seasons vary. Locations vary. I don't keep bees in Ohio, what do I know about bees in Ohio? So quick answer to the question you asked: stop feeding before you add a honey super. Aaron Morris - thinking there are no quick answers! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:08:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: muses Subject: How much feeding to draw comb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bees do not prefer sugar feeding but if there is nothing else they will hit it hard. I never worried about it affecting the honey because when the nice flows are on, weather is fine, bees are out and about doing their bee things and your probably peeking at the hives frequently and you will see they no longer touch the sugar. In the eairly spring is when feeding is an issue to hold them over till they can get thier own suplies. This past winter supplies ran short. Many hives fail this time of year because no food is availale. As soon as their needs are met by nature they will not take the sugar and youll see the levels untouched at which time you can remove them. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 15:33:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Green Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb? In-Reply-To: <3E8EBAF8.8090300@attbi.com> From: "Wm. Beasley" > As near as I can > tell, I should continue feeding the hive at that point to get them to draw > out the medium... how do I handle it so that I don't end up with sugar > syrup honey in the process of trying to get the comb drawn for the first > time? Once your brood chamber comb is drawn, the bees should be up to strength and should be able to draw super comb on the flow. I would not feed syrup to draw super comb. If some doesn't get finished, there's always next year. The brood comb is what is important for now. If you can set up your supers with two combs on the outside, and one fresh, even better yet, wet from the extractor, comb in the center, they will draw it quicker. If you are a first-time beekeeper that won't be possible, but keep it in mind for next year. If you start with all comb, be sure to put the supers on as the flow is beginning, As soon as you get the center third drawn, move two frames to the outside position (otherwise they may never draw that outside comb), and add another super. Keep on adding supers as long as they are filling them. Some add under the finished one. If you get burr comb drawn on the bottom of the cover, you are too slow, and you have lost production. The bees need space to store nectar, until the water is evaporated. So you should always finish the flow with an empty super on top. If the top super is full and the cover all burred up, you lost quite a bit of production. If your super is all foundation, be sure to use ten frames per super to get correct spacing. Otherwise the bees may build a lot of bridge comb. Once comb is drawn, you can use 9 frames in a super and this makes them easier to uncap, as they draw the comb out further. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:01:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: beekeeper Organization: none Subject: Re: Source for free One Gallon Glass jars MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another place one might look for 1 gallon jars is the local recycling center. I volunteer at our local collection center and we have a caterer that recycles her jars with us. They are even in the original boxes. If there is anyone in Michigan(central lower or is up in the Cadillac area occasionally) let me know and I will get some for you. Our first recycling Saturday is 4/12 and I am sure there will be some available. Coleene :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:39:49 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wm Beasley asks how can he avoid storing sugar syrup honey in supers if a package is fed until it has drawn out not only 2 brood boxes but also a medium super. The answer surely is that sugar will certainly be stored - the sucrose mostly inverted to other sugars as in the case of nectar but producing a tasteless paste or poor texture. Even if feeding ended as soon as both brood boxes were drawn out, sugar would still be transferred up to the super since initially it would be stored in the brood boxes until the colony grew large enough to fill h boxes with brood. The issue here is that the beekeepeer must choose between purity and a heavy harvest large harvest. In the UK climate we have virtually no commercial honey farming , mostly only sideliners supplementing income and pure hobbyists. Hobbyists would never feed a swarm starting a new nest more than say 1 gallon of syrup, possibly much less if there was a flow. That would get the combs started but not finished - the new colony would be expected to build up slowly and steadily thru to autumn when (hopefully) it would need only the 8 to 16 lbs of sugar given a production colony t bring the winter stores up to a total of 40 ponds. If there is not enough forage for building thru the summer, then it is a bad area for bees. That amount of winter feed is consumed before the first spring flow (on a last in, first out principle) - all the honey would then be pure, with no 'hugar' contamination or whatever u want to call it. 'Pure' honey retails here for 10 times or more the price of sugar - say £2.50 to £4 per pound jar ($4 to$6.40) . That price depends on bottling yourself and keeping a reputation for purity - including total avoidance of antibiotics. I get the impression USA producers are more in the bulk market - with enormous crops to get rid of - and produce to a lower standard and get a lower price. Is that right? Wm Beasley has to make his choice - 'natural' beekeeping producing small harvests of the highest quality or following commercial practice. People who produce backyard vegetables do not follow the methods of prairie farmers. Is backyard beekeeping best seen that way too? Robin Dartington ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wm. Beasley" To: Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 12:16 PM Subject: [BEE-L] How much feeding to draw comb? > A newbie question here. I understand that either a nectar flow or active > feeding (e.g. sugar syrup) is necessary to get the bees to draw out new > comb. I'm starting two nucs, and expect to feed them until the > foundation is drawn out and filled for two deeps; local beekeepers tell > me that two deeps is the standard wintering configuration here in NE > Ohio. Assuming that this process is completed I expect to move on to a > (medium) honey super, which is all foundation since that's all I have. > As near as I can tell, I should continue feeding the hive at that point > to get them to draw out the medium... how do I handle it so that I don't > end up with sugar syrup honey in the process of trying to get the comb > drawn for the first time? Unless I'm missing something, it appears that > the question will then repeat for each new honey super I need to > introduce, until I have enough frames of drawn comb to get me through > the season. > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:04:32 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Shane Woodruff Subject: One gallon glass jars MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As everyone who purchases glass to pack their honey knows honey jars are not cheap. Even the 5 pound containers are over a dollar each if you factor in the lids. A good source for free or cheap one gallon containers is the local sub shop. The one near us gets pickels and hot peppers in glass jars. The guy who owns the place sells me a case of 4 for $1.00. They have been washed and the label removed. I do let the air out a while before using them though since they still smell like pickels or peppers for a while. Another source of them is the local elementary school. When they serve hamburgers the pickels come in these same jars. These are free but its easier to just get the from the sub shop since he saves them for me and they are already cleaned. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 07:47:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Date pollen A thread on Allen's forum http://honeybeeworld.com/bb/index.php?sid=db3630ec634381848668e4c800b5b9d2 reminded me of what I did to keep my scuts alive during the winter in our area of South Africa. I was a manager on a large fruit farm, and we had 250 acres of dates. Normally, the female date trees are planted in blocks, with some male trees kept separate. The pollen is harvested from the male trees, and used to pollenate the female trees by hand or with blowers or something. Date pollen is hugely expensive, but looses it's viability quickly, and then lost it's use to us. So the company gave me several pounds, and this is what I used to start the bees going for the watermellon and cantaloupe early crop. It's like a white powder that was easy to pour into little dishes I made. I kept the little dishes and the liter jars of sugar water directly on the top bars of the last super, and put a full super with a tight lid on top of the jar and dish because if you've ever seen scuts start robbing, you wont soon forget it. I wonder what is done with non-viable date pollen which must be produced in large amounts in some countries, and possibly even here in the States? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 08:01:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: The FLOW is ON in coastal SC! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only flow that's on up here in central Vermont is the 18" of snow this past weekend. Forecast is for 10-15 deg F tonight, and more snow coming in Monday. Guess I'll clear the hive entrances again. Sigh. Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 11:03:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Logan VanLeigh Subject: Alternative to Glass Jars MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use 2-gal plastic buckets. Fit in a deep over the inner cover quite well. Get them from local bakeries/donut shops. Icing comes in them. Drill several small holes in the lid, fill with syrup, invert, and walk off. Logan E TN :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 10:37:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robin said: I get the impression USA producers are more in the bulk market - with enormous crops to get rid of - and produce to a lower standard and get a lower price. Is that right? U.S.A. large scale honey producers do not produce to a lower standard. The opposite is true. ALL large scale honey packers test the honey they buy for resale. Adulteration with fructose is always tested. It is illegal to sell under the label of *pure honey* with detectable amounts of fructose *unless* the product is labeled a *honey blend* with fructose on the label such as is given away at the Burger King fast food chain. The small beekeeper selling to friends and neighbors can easily pass on fructose(sugar syrup) mixed honey as he/she never has the honey tested. I doubt the beekeeper would intentionally sell honey with a high level of syrup but the problem can happen with heavy feeding as the bees simply move the stored syrup up into into supers in order to expand the growing brood nest. With honey being put on a three year watch list by the FDA I suspect problems with fructose in honey might be found although the FDA is mostly looking for other problems rather than fructose . Fructose mixed in with pure honey poses no known health risk and although illegal is of low priority to the FDA. Usually only looked at when a complaint is made by a consumer. A couple of U.S. Packers have had their hands lightly slapped for the practice and I suspect cutting honey with fructose is done on a large scale where testing is not done as is the case in many third world countries. Those which do not sell to stores in the U.S. most likely will never have a jar of their honey tested by the FDA. I suspect most others will see their honey checked over the next three years and large packers many times. Knowing when to feed and the amount is complicated and only comes with experience. Over feeding is a waste of time by the bees and money on the beekeepers part and causes swarming by crowding the brood nest with syrup so the queen has no place to lay eggs. My advice is to closely monitor the drawing process and keep the feeder full when needed and begin the reduce feed as needed when needed. When you see the bees are packing the queens laying area with syrup you are overfeeding. The above is not the way most large scale beekeepers get comb drawn. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 12:46:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jason Buchanan Subject: new packages arriving soon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi, My new packages will be arriving in about a week to 2 weeks - the long range forecast shows the weather to continue to be very COLD and cloudy here in Boston for the next 15 days. Does anyone have any suggestions for hiving the new packages despite being 35 degrees and cloudy... And after hiving, how to feed to keep them alive... Thanks! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:37:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rick Green Subject: Re: new packages arriving soon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have had luck by insuring that the package or splits gets plenty of honey and has a reduced entrance to help them. Be brave, in over 15 years of split making I have only lost 2 or three packages or splits to the cold. I think whether or not you have 2 or three pound packages makes a difference. Three pounds are nice to start with. Rick Green 8 Hickory Grove Lane Ballston Lake, NY 12019 (518) 384-2539 gothoney@aol.com honeyetc.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 15:08:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lee Hunt Subject: Two dead hives I am new to this list and to beekeeping. I started up 2 hives last spring. Both did fairly well through the fall. I am in Woodstock, NY (upstate 100 miles from NYC) and we had a very, very cold winter. My hives were probably in more shade than they should have been, and sometime during the winter months both hives died. I've opened them up for a good look and am puzzled by what I've seen. In both hives clumps of bees were scattered on the frames, seemingly frozen in a moment of time. Many had there heads buried in the cels. Based on other messages I've read, perhaps they were too cold to move to other areas of the frame to find honey (which was there). Many of the bees were also covered in mold. In fact the second hive is almost completely covered with mold; on the frames, on the walls, on the bees, and on the carcasses on the floor. The mold is white and bluish. And yes, the hives were damp. Snow had seeped in the hives. So, I have a few questions: 1) should I assume that the bees just died of cold? I don't see any other obvious indications of disease (based on what I've read in books) 2) should I be concerned about the mold? I plan to scrape the moldy frames clean (to remove all the dead bee bodies stuck in the cels) if nothing else. And of course, put everything out in the sun to dry it out. 3) anything else I need to do before I introduce new colonies to the hives? Thanks for anyone with any answers or suggestions. I also took some digital pictures of the interior of the hives if that helps. Lee Hunt :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 12:29:41 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: steve noble Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison said: The above is not the way most large scale beekeepers get comb drawn Just when I thought I had read enough on this question, Bob goes and tweaks my cuiosity. Now I just have to know, How do large scale beekeepers get comb drawn, and is this method a better method for us small scale folks too, and if not why not.? Steve Noble > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:41:31 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Harrison" It is illegal to sell under the label of *pure honey* with detectable amounts of fructose *unless* the product is labeled a *honey blend* with fructose on the label ... Bob I assume you meant sucrose? Fructose is, of course, one of the main sugars naturally present in honey. Peter Edwards edwards.p@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:32:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jason Buchanan Subject: Re: Gallon Glass Jar Feeder In-Reply-To: <200303311230.h2VC3G6P025843@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yoonytoons wrote: >Re. A Gallon Glass Jar-Feeder > >To drill holes in the plastic lid of a gallon glass jar, I use 1/16 drill >bit: I make about nine to twelve tiny holes and they will not leak. >Invariably a strong colony will empty a gallon in less than three days. > > Do you place the jar on top of an inner cover sandwiched between full and empty supers or place the jar directly on top of the frames? I'm wondering if I put the jar on top of the frames if it will cause two problems: 1. the weight causing the frames to warp because of the weight of the jar+water+sugar 2. burr comb and weird acrobatics inside the empty space of the deep super around the jar. Thanks! Jason :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 18:34:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Excellent question asked by Steve: How do large scale beekeepers get comb drawn, and is this method a better method for us small scale folks too, and if not why not.? Fructose is expensive. I feed when needed but not any other time. You can simply feed away your profits! I get a large amount of supers with foundation ready and they sit. Maybe for a year or two (maybe not). I wait for the right flow conditions. I then shift off the drawn comb supers and install foundation exactly like recommended by George I. of our list. I watch the outside temperature during the period and the long range weather forecast. I do not want the work on the foundation to stop until all foundation is fully drawn. The bees draw beautiful comb. Most commercial beekeepers I talk with use similar methods. Common mistakes with new beekeepers is installing a package on foundation when the weather is too cold for the bees wax glands to work. Not keeping the syrup feeder full at the start so the bees start and stop working causing problems. Incorrect spacing of frames when using foundation and so on and so forth. If you are successful at the production of comb honey you will be successful using my system if you consider getting your wax drawn the same way. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri "Look deep deep into nature and then you will understand everything better!" Albert Einstein :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:13:08 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Gallon Glass Jar Feeder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If your inner cover is made of masonite, place two "sticks" on top of the frames to prevent inner cover BENDING from weight, and then place the gallon jar feeder directly over the inner cover hole. Only in extremely cold weather have I ever had to put the jar directly on top of the frames, and those wooden top bars of frames would not warp even if the jar weighed 100 pounds. I saw your note about the predicted 15 days of cold weather and your arriving bees. Me thinks you worry too much! You can hold those bees in a cool room and dark for several days until you get a couple of hours of SUN and 50° weather to install them. Just MAKE SURE they have sugar syrup to eat upon installation. George :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:44:43 -0500 Reply-To: lithar@hcis.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: AL Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison wrote: > > Fructose is expensive. I feed when needed but not any other time. You can > simply feed away your profits! Profits??? What's that? AL :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:37:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mark Dewar Subject: How much feeding to draw comb? In-Reply-To: <003401c2fc87$62ad3c20$1ac287d9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, I was wondering if anyone could tell me how many boxes of foundation a hive will draw out in a year? And is there any economic impact as far as lost honey production goes? Mark Canada :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 04:29:54 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb? Robin Dartington (or perhaps Christine Gray) said: > Wm Beasley has to make his choice - 'natural' beekeeping producing > small harvests of the highest quality or following commercial practice. About all I could suggest to him would be to use a "tracer dye" of purple food coloring in his feed, so he can at least see if individual frames of harvestable honey contain "feed" or not. Since he is just starting out in spring, he can't draw comb early unless he happens to have a powerful bloom of a good nectar source, and pulls the feeder off before the bees are completely done drawing his supers of foundation. Even then, his first crop might contain a small amount of "honey from feed". His only high probability way of avoiding this risk would be to buy some drawn comb from another beekeeper, and stop feeding well before the bloom. Even then, no one can make absolute assurances. Bees have a habit of moving honey and nectar around, seemingly at random. You can't make the bees do your bidding every time, but you can at least monitor what they do if you are tricky. > I get the impression USA producers are more > in the bulk market Only the largest are. The majority have as few or fewer hives than UK hobby beekeepers. > - with enormous crops to get rid of - Only about 100 have "enormous" crops. They don't "get rid of it". They sell it. It's their livelihood. They are proud of their crops. Their crops pay the mortgage and put their kids through college. > and produce to a lower standard No Way. No Freakin' Way. > and get a lower price. Sadly, yes. More often than anyone would like. For honey of the highest quality and purity. Perhaps I should explain my answers. :) 1) I heard from an authoritative source last week that the current headcount of "really big" US commercial beekeepers is down to 100, and the total number of "commercial" and "sideliners" is only about 1000. So the "majority of US producers" are small hobbyist operations, no larger than the typical UK hobby beekeeper. 2) Yes, most "big operations" sell their honey in bulk. 3) Yes, most "big operations" harvest enormous crops. 4) But >>>NO<<< there certainly is NOT a "lower standard". Large producers are held to much HIGHER standards than any hobbyist would be. Honey bought in bulk is tested for everything from "color grade", to moisture content, to parts-per-trillion trace-level miticide residues. I seriously doubt that more than a tiny number of hobbyist beekeepers (US, UK, or anywhere) who sell their honey direct to the consumer could produce honey capable of passing the tests applied by packers and brokers to the honey sold in bulk by larger producers. I know that very few hobbyists even own a refractometer, which would be the most basic tool to assure quality, at least verifying that the honey will not ferment in the jar. 5) But, sadly, yes, bulk producers often do get a "lower price", since the "market price" is pulled down by the availability of large volumes of honey from places like China, where labor costs are much lower, and producers are willing to operate at (or over!) the edge of both regulations and ethics. Why high quality standards AND low prices? Its obvious when you ignore the rhetoric of the buyers and look at the actions of the buyers. Since the US consumes more honey than it produces, we have an interesting "double standard", where North American-produced honey is held to very strict standards, simply so it can be blended with imported honey, often known by the packer to be of lower quality in multiple ways, and also known to often have a "flavor profile", which means it tastes and smells terrible. So, the brokers and packers demand superior honey from US and Canadian producers, since it will be required to "mask" the often inferior honey imported from elsewhere. Why else would a packer go to the expense and trouble of "blending" honey from multiple countries? The only possible reason is that if he did not, his product would be much less attractive to the consumer. Since the imported honey is always cheaper, why do the packers buy ANY North American honey? Certainly not out of any philanthropic or patriotic impulses. They do it because they HAVE TO. Without North American honey blended in, the imported honey might be unmarketable as food for human consumption. And let me take great exception to the implications made in the statement: > Wm Beasley has to make his choice - 'natural' beekeeping producing > small harvests of the highest quality or following commercial practice. ...that "commercial practice" has anything to do with: a) Feeding syrup to bees in a way that it might end up in honey (Something that a hobbyist might not even notice, but would cause a commercial beekeeper's crop to be rejected by every potential buyer.) b) "Unnatural" practices c) Lower quality honey. "Natural" and "Commercial" are not mutually exclusive. Anything but! "Natural" beekeeping does not imply anything about the quality of the honey. "Commercial practice" also says nothing at all about the quality of the honey. When the "organic standards" are finalized for honey, I expect that the only beekeepers able to certify their honey as "organic" will be a few large beekeepers who have apiaries far from any form of civilization in the area between the Mississippi River and the Rocky Mountains. All that "commercial" implies is that one is large enough to hire workers, buy capital equipment, and perhaps even "go migratory", following the good nectar flows and the good weather. The advantages of economies of scale allow one to assure that one is producing a better product as a "free" (or tiny percentage of the gross) byproduct of one's normal operations, and track actual quality with objective metrics. If I had to bet who could produce "better" monofloral unblended honey, I'd bet that the big boys would win every time. I'd also guess that the commercial producers do not enter hobbyist honey competitions for the same reason that professional baseball players decline invitations to play with local softball teams - they don't want to make a bunch of amateurs feel like... a bunch of amateurs. The good news for the small beekeepers is that the big beekeeper's product is, on the whole, blended with imported stuff, filtered to within an inch of its life, and heated to the point of lowering it by a color grade or two. But don't blame a beekeeper for what a packer does to the honey! If you think about it, NONE of us are really "natural" beekeepers. We all keep bees that have been hybridized and cross-bred to the point that they would be unrecognizable to our great-grandparents. We have long since abandoned "survival of the fittest", and we may soon face "survival of the fattest". Not the fattest bees, the fattest wallets able to pay for specialized hybrid bees. "Natural beekeeping" appears to me to be a codeword for nothing more than a willingness to let luck and nature have its way with one's colony count, in hopes of stumbling upon a "survivor colony" from which to breed one's bees. Good luck to those who are willing to watch colonies die for a few years every time a new pest comes along. I'm not willing. I have perhaps 60 more seasons on this planet, and I hope to hold my losses to a minimum every year. > People who produce backyard vegetables do not follow the methods of > prairie farmers. Is backyard beekeeping best seen that way too? The only practices of large beekeepers that are not appropriate for small beekeepers are those that require a capital investment beyond the budget of the small beekeeper. One can learn much from the big boys, even if you have the luxury of being able to spend a half hour working a single colony every week when a "big boy" has at most, 10 minutes a month per colony. And neither vegetables or honey are "better" simply because they are produced in someone's back yard. Backyard produce may be more emotionally satisfying to the grower/consumer, but from what I have seen, "backyard" gardeners irrigate with municipal water, or suburban wells, and use pesticides without reading the label, all which tend to contain things that I would rather not have in my food. "Backyard beekeeping", by definition, often also means "basement extracting", which, for the most part, means no "quality control" or "sanitary practices" at all beyond some form of filtering mesh. I have seen hobbyist "honey processing" under conditions that turned my stomach, conditions that would make a typical commercial beekeeper scream in horror. Any of these "backyard practices" would put a commercial beekeeper into either bankruptcy or jail. Perhaps both. Why am I being so hard-nosed? Because the commercial guys are even too nice to even stand up and protect their own image. No problem - I type faster than they do, and have no qualms about speaking plainly. jim (who has too many hives to be a "hobbyist", but not enough to be a "commercial beekeeper". Let's just call it a "pathological compulsion".) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:41:27 -0400 Reply-To: Buckner Lewis Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Buckner Lewis Subject: Re: The FLOW is ON in coastal SC! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here in North Central Florida the high bush gallberry is beginning to bloom, the low bush is behind it about a week or so. Black gum is popping out in places, and blackberry is out..Orange blossom was dismal for us and most everyone else I know of. So lets hope the rain holds off for a few weeks as the woods here are plenty wet.. Moved bees off orange Saturday night and will super up today for the famous berry. If the prices stay up, should be a good year. WBL.. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 19:59:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: steve noble Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob's method: I wait for the right flow conditions. I then shift off the drawn comb supers and install foundation exactly like recommended by George I. of our list. Bob, does attempting to get comb drawn during a main flow have any negative effect on the amount of honey you get? Or do you just try to get a little comb drawn at a time so it has negligable impact on honey production? Steve Noble > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 05:35:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I was wondering if anyone could tell me how many boxes of foundation a > hive will draw out in a year? And is there any economic impact as > far as lost honey production goes? Nobody can answer a question this broad and speculative, but I am sure quite a few will try. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:19:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carmenie Stemmler Subject: Pollen substitute ingrediants Hello all, Spring is finally arriving, and I need to begin thinking about building up my bees for the coming season. I would like to start feeding patties, but have a couple question about the ingredients I hope someone can answer. Soybean flour - Is this also called soybean meal? 48 % (protein) soybean meal can be purchased from feed stores around here quite easily. It is not the expeller process, and I do not know if it has been toasted. Is this ok? Brewers yeast - Anything special about this? It is also available, though alot more expensive than the soybean meal. Mild powder - Will regular powdered milk do? Do you get it from a feed store or a grocery store? Is it really necessary? I also have Mann Lake Pollen substitute here. What comination of ingredients do I use to make the patties? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! Sincerely, Carmenie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 07:24:38 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Large producers are held to much HIGHER standards than > any hobbyist would be... > I seriously doubt that more than a tiny number of hobbyist > beekeepers (US, UK, or anywhere) who sell their honey direct > to the consumer could produce honey capable of passing the > tests applied by packers and brokers to the honey sold in > bulk by larger producers. I have stated here before that I, personally, would be quite reluctant to consume any quantity of honey sold by an unknown hobbyist beekeeper. Although I am sure that many backlot beekeepers produce honey of very high quality and purity, after knowing a large number of beekeepers, both hobby and commercial, and a decade of reading this list, sci.ag.bee, and several foreign language bee lists, I am equally convinced that a very significant proportion of backyard beekeepers are seriously uninformed, uncritical, incompetant, gullible -- and creative. That is a very dangerous combination of qualities to find in anyone supplying or preparing food. Although a small subset of hobby and sideline beekeepers is more competant, informed, and scrupulous, than the average commercial beekeeper, commercial beekeepers are -- in the main -- better informed, more experienced, better equipped, better monitored, and generally a much safer bet. Anyone can make a mistake or cut corners, but commercial beekeepers know that a mistake or incautious action could cost them their livelihood, their reputation, a possible ruinous lawsuit, or prosecution. As a result, they are very careful. On the other hand, many who keep a few hives (some of whom lose them over and over again) tend to try anything that comes along, and believe that they can put anything into a beehive with impunity. As I've said before, unless I know you, or you are running a respectable commercial outfit, I'm not sure I want to eat honey you produce, (and maybe, if I know you, I am sure I don't want to eat honey you produce). That applies to some foreign honey too. Although many operators in many offshore countries -- notably Australia, New Zealand, and Argentina -- usually meet, and can even document high standards, some of what is offered on the market is just not honey, some of it is produced under conditions that would not pass even a lax inspection on this continent, and some of it comes from untraceable sources. No amount of testing will ever 100% guarantee what it is. Interestingly, authorities in North America are now waking up to the dangers that can lurk in product from unknown sources and I predict that within ten years, and more likely five or less, food suppliers will have to document the source and production methods for any food sold to the public in quantity. Such controls and inspections are seldom extended down to the farmers market or church bazzar level and small sales from the 'farm gate' are usually exempt. Buyers of food from commercial channels are protected to a degree that those who buy from small operators are not. Caveat emptor. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:18:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: The FLOW is ON in coastal SC! Comments: To: Buckner Lewis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WBL said, Orange blossom was dismal for us and most everyone else I know of. Seems hard to count on any honey crop these days. Never count your honey crop until in the containers! Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:30:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve asked: Bob, does attempting to get comb drawn during a main flow have any negative effect on the amount of honey you get? I believe it does but not sure the amount of honey lost. Or do you just try to get a little comb drawn at a time so it has negligable impact on honey production? If you figure the time involved with trips to locations filling feeders over and over to get comb drawn versus the loss of honey involved with putting on foundation I feel the cost is similar. You can not as George I. has pointed out stack boxes of foundation on hives. One box at a time works best. Use the same method as you use to get comb honey foundation drawn. Bob Ps. I realize the hobby beekeeper enjoys spending time with his/her bees and they should but I can only devote a certain amount of time to each hive or project. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:41:50 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: new packages arriving soon Jason Buchanan said: > My new packages will be arriving in about a week to 2 weeks. > Does anyone have any suggestions for hiving the new > packages despite being 35 degrees and cloudy... Not to worry. A quick look at both the 10-day forecast and the averages for Boston tell me that you have nothing to fear. Boston MA 10-Day Forecast http://www.weather.com/weather/svrtenday/USMA0046 (The 10-day forecast is good enough these days to bet serious money that the temps will be with a degree or two of what is forecast.) Date Conditions High/Low (F) Percip Chance ---------- ------------- ------------ ------------- Mon Apr 07 Snow (4-8") 35/30 70 % Tue Apr 08 AM Light Snow 34/30 60 % Wed Apr 09 Cloudy 38/31 20 % Thu Apr 10 Cloudy 47/37 20 % Fri Apr 11 Showers 42/39 30 % Sat Apr 12 Few Showers 45/37 30 % Sun Apr 13 Partly Cloudy 43/38 20 % Mon Apr 14 Few Showers 52/43 30 % Tue Apr 15 Mostly Cloudy 56/43 10 % Wed Apr 16 Cloudy 56/43 20 % Averages (What I use to plan) For Boston, MA http://www.weather.com/weather/climatology/daily/USMA0046 Apr Avg Avg Forecast Lo Day Hi Lo is "off" average Lo by --- ---- ---- ------------- 7 53 F 38 F -8 degrees F 8 53 F 38 F -8 9 54 F 38 F -7 10 54 F 39 F -2 11 54 F 39 F 0 12 55 F 39 F -2 13 55 F 40 F -2 14 56 F 40 F +3 15 56 F 40 F +3 16 56 F 41 F +2 17 57 F 41 F 18 57 F 41 F 19 57 F 42 F 20 58 F 42 F 21 58 F 42 F 22 58 F 43 F 23 59 F 43 F 24 59 F 43 F 25 59 F 43 F 26 60 F 44 F 27 60 F 44 F 28 60 F 44 F 29 61 F 45 F 30 61 F 45 F So, while this week looks discouraging, ignore the snow, and make sure all the gear is ready. In a week (April 14th), the averages for Boston look fine for installing packages. At 56 degrees, bees may fly, and with nighttime lows in the 40s, even small clusters do not risk death. As someone else said, entrance reducers are a very good idea. If it is a bit chilly, you can shake the bees into a hive and expect them to stay put for a bit, so don't freak out if you look at the entrance the next day and see nothing but a few dead bees on the landing board. (If you peek into the entrance, you should see at least one bee "standing guard" the day after installing the package. No guarantees on the first day - its complete chaos in many cases.) When weather looks really bad, one can call one's package or queen supplier and request a shipment delay. These folks bend over backwards for us, and may decide on their own to delay shipments to unusually cold areas. They look at the weather too. Every day. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:06:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Green Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb? In-Reply-To: <003701c2fd1a$9964eae0$21ac58d8@BusyBeeAcres> From: Bob Harrison > Steve asked: > > Bob, does attempting to get comb drawn during a main flow have any > negative effect on the amount of honey you get? > > I believe it does but not sure the amount of honey lost. I think I've seen the figure of 7 or 8 pounds of honey used to make a pound of wax. I've also always understood that bees are gonna make a certain amount of wax whether they need to or not, as they process nectar into honey. So the amount of honey "lost" by having to draw foundation may well be a moot point. Well drawn comb is one of a beekeeper's most valuable commodities, so we try to draw some each year, and protect it as much as possible. If I used packages, I would do a lot of feeding to get the brood chambers drawn, but we don't use packages. In our situation we are producing nucs at this time of year. We have already done a lot of feeding to stimulate the queen. On strong colonies we dad put a box of mixed comb and foundation on top. Now as we pull all colonies down by removing a lot of the brood, we will usually add a couple frames of foundation. I like to add it (to a ten frame box) in position nine and seven, with a frame of new (from last year) comb in between, if possible, or a frame that has a lot of bees and nectar in between. This will put the young bees in the right position to urge them to draw the comb. It usually works quite well. I rarely try to draw entire boxes of foundation. Sometimes Ma Nature screws it up. Right now our flow has halted due to a week of cool rainy weather, and we are worried about the hives not yet worked, having a week to think about building swarm cells. I made 22 nucs this morning in the rain, but quit when the lightning started crackling close by. We did a lot of swarm control early, by reversing bodies and adding space, and it's held off swarming quite well -- so far. But now hives are getting pretty plugged up. No break in the rain forecast till the weekend. Dave in rainy SC USA, where the mosquitoes are on steroids The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:16:51 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, Fact: Bees must consume about 8 pounds of honey (NOT nectar) to produce and construct 1 pound of wax comb. Hence, making dawn comb from foundation decreases the quantity of honey for the beekeeper. VERY IMPORTANT: You cannot install several supers of foundation all at one time and expect to get drawn comb. Instead you will get a "jungle" of drawn comb traveling in all directions and particularly bridging in between frames; and 90% of it is NOT salvageable. The only way to draw foundation properly, i.e., parallel combs each centered in the center of the top bar and built the width of the top bar, is to tightly close 10 frames of foundation together (NEVER 9) in one super, install it during a major nectar flow, wait until about 7-8 of the frames are drawn and filled, and then add a second super of 10 tightly packed together frames of foundation, and repeat what you did on the first super before adding a third super. It is a lot of time consuming inspection and work to get foundation properly drawn, and this is the reason that I SHOUT LOUDLY that "Drawn comb is a beekeeper's MOST VALUABLE POSSESSION"; and yet careless beekeepers let the wax moths destroy it after it is extracted and stored away until next year. I hope I have helped. George Imirie, Retired Scientist Certified EAS Master Beekeeper Starting my 71st year of beekeeping in Maryland and Northern Virginia Author of George's PINK PAGES @ www.beekeeper.org/george_imirie/index.html :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:35:18 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: new packages arriving soon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> My new packages will be arriving in about a week to 2 weeks. >> Does anyone have any suggestions for hiving the new >> packages despite being 35 degrees and cloudy... Take a look at http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2000/diary040100.htm and you will see bees installed in a snowstorm, with no adverse effects on the bees. (The beekeeeprs were chilly though). As long as you have drawn comb, with some -- a pound or two minimum -- feed in it in the brood chamber, and as long as you dump the bees out of the package into the hive, (do not set the package into the hive) and as long as you direct release the queen, you should have 100% success. The only other thing to watch is that the package does not get chilled awaiting installation. If you do things otherwise, you're on your own. There are a lot of wrong ways to do this job. Most of them work some of the time, but have serious drawbacks under other conditions. Again, the BEE-L archives have a lot of good info, plus some painful tales from those who used risky methods and weren't lucky. Good luck. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:21:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the case of established colonies (now swarms) why should one feed at all to get comb drawn? If there is nectar coming in then bees at around 10 days old will be producing wax anyway which they can either build into comb or allow to fall to the hive floor and be wasted. If there is no nectar coming in there is no need for comb to be drawn. There will be nothing but sugar to put in it. A commercial beekeeper who has to maximise his profits to satisfy his bank manager will doubtless be in paroxysms of calculations as to the relative prices of sugar/ honey/labour to do the feeding/ fuel to mix and get it there and will act according to the answers he gets. But I doubt whether he will be a better economist than the bees who have spent millions of years learning to get the balance right or die. An amateur beekeeper can afford to relax and enjoy the bees doing their own thing as the season progresses and minimise unnecessary interference. If Mr Beasley wants an accurate answer to his question and his doubts about diluting honey with sugar he should add food dye to the syrup and see where the colour turns up in the supers. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:31:11 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: How much feeding to draw comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 07/04/03 05:06:16 GMT Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: << Adulteration with fructose is always tested. It is illegal to sell under the label of *pure honey* with detectable amounts of fructose *unless* the product is labeled a *honey blend* with fructose >> I think Bob must mean sucrose rather than fructrose. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:05:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Miller Subject: Old equipment I had an interesting call the other day to retrieve some old bee equipment from a house that was to be razed. Some of it had some mash with dead rats, the still was gone. Anyway, I am left with a couple questions that I hope some of you might help me with. 1. Included in my haul were a Grand Rapids Michigan USA Woodman Bee Supply 4 frame extractor with belts to connect to a motor. I am trying to pull the extractor basket out to clean the tank and after undoing the bolts that I see, I can't lift the thing out. Is anyone familiar with extractors well enough to suggest other things to try? The extractors that I have seen have sat in a hole or on a projection and secured at the top of the basket. 2. I have what appears to be a 45 frame extractor. There are 5 segments that would let 9 frames sit in. I can't find any company names but there are what could be serial numbers on the top of the basket. I will need to buy a motor, clutch, brake, etc.. to get this thing working and would like to know who made this in the hopes that they are still in business and could provide product support. Any suggestions? 3. As I clean these items, I am interested in making them nice to look at, and safe to hold honey in. Any suggestion on what to clean them with ( to make me feel like rat flavor is not in my honey) and then to paint or coat the insides with? And can such products tolerate much heat? 4. If anyone is curious about such items to see or purchase, I ahve no emotional attachment to them and could part with them for trade or similarly functioning item. Old smoker and "Root Honey Tank" (about 30-50 gallons) also. Thank you for your assistance. Joe beejb4@cox.net Greenville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:31:16 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Bee Transport Truck Blows Tire in Florida, Overturns, Driver Killed Today we all lost a kindred sprit due to a blown tire on a truckload of bees driving on I-95 in Florida. The news report: http://www.local6.com/orlpn/news/stories/news-209539620030407-120447.html Lists the name of the victim as "Conrad Cramer, 82", and there is a very high probability that the victim is the same Conrad Cramer (Kramer?) mentioned here www.flareal.com/fsbanews.htm "A special award as Life Member was awarded to Conrad Cramer for all the work he has done for the Florida State Beekeepers Association." ...and here http://www.flareal.com/fsbaminutes.htm "Mr. Conrad Kramer gave the Apiary report..." :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::