From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:26:02 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.5 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, DRUGS_SLEEP,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9364149052 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDAZeE011456 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0305A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 164742 Lines: 3765 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 00:33:59 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Free Bee-Removal like a Free Lunch???? In-Reply-To: <000901c30f8b$a6ae08c0$86ac58d8@BusyBeeAcres> Bob said: > I went to pick up a swarm awhile back and the homeowner > actually tried to charge me $50 for the swarm after I > commented on what a nice swarm it was. > > When I started to get back in my truck to leave the homeowner > changed his mind and offered the swarm for free. This reminded me of a very, very bad movie, but one with good potential as an instructional video for bee colony removal - "Ghostbusters". The boys have just trapped their first ghost in a large hotel ballroom, and need to get paid... PETER: We came, we saw, we kicked its ass! HOTEL MNGR: Did you see it? What is it? RAY: We got it! HOTEL MNGR: What is it? Will there be more of them? RAY: Sir, what you had there is what we refer to as a focused non-terminal repeating phantasm or a Class 5 full-roaming vapor. Real nasty one too! PETER: And now let's talk seriously. Now, for the entrapment we're gonna have to ask you four big ones, 4 thousand dollars for that, but we are having a special this week on proton charging and storage of the beast and that's only gonna come to one thousand dollars, fortunately. HOTEL MNGR: Five thousand dollars? I had no idea it'd be so much. I won't pay it PETER: Ok, that's all right, we can just put it right back in there! RAY: We certainly can, Doctor Venkman... HOTEL MNGR: No, no, no... Alright, anything! (Writes check, hands it over.) PETER: Thanks so much! RAY: Thank you, hope we can help you again. ...Coming through! One Class 5 free-roaming vapor! Audio Clip: http://www.ecto-web.biz.be/real/usa_kick.ram jim (Who notes that most beekeepers seem to have majored in yoga and gender studies, leaving all the negotiating skill to the multinationals, politicians, and pirates) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:56:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Queen Quit Laying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave said: weather also makes it less likely (no flow) that an introduced queen will be accepted. I always feed while requeening to help with introduction. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:44:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Free Bee-Removal like a Free Lunch???? Comments: To: jfischer@supercollider.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You've done this before, so you should be used to "you get the bees, why do you charge me?" I went to pick up a swarm awhile back and the homeowner actually tried to charge me $50 for the swarm after I commented on what a nice swarm it was. When I started to get back in my truck to leave the homeowner changed his mind and offered the swarm for free. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 07:34:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This annual exercise started this morning. More than a few have in the past complained that this exercise is a pain in the butt, but the benefit of cleaning up changed or abandoned subscriptions relieves the list owner of excessive traffic generated by the changed or abandoned subscriptions. The instruction, "you only need to forward (this message) back to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU to have the command executed" is very straight forward and easy to follow. BE FOREWARNED however, that if you have your mail client configured to prefix characters to lines of forwarded mail then forwarding the mail back to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU will not effectively renew your subscription. An alternative way to renew your BEE-L subscription is to send a single line of mail to: LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU that reads: CONFIRM BEE-L Subscribers who do not renew their subscription within the next two weeks will be automatically dropped from BEE-L on May 15. Aaron Morris BEE-L Owner/Editor/Moderator :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 05:47:53 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Bees in wall without queen -- will they leave? In-Reply-To: <005101c30f7c$72ea87c0$ae5ed4c7@keith> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii My neighbors just had a swarm move in yesterday where they're building a new room over the garage. They went into a crack between old and new construction. I got there within 15 min. after they moved in, then waited 45 min. for the builder to get there and explain where the joists, etc., were. With my ear against the wall, I could hear them loudly near the outside entrance, but also, more softly, up to 8-10 feet further in, as well as from a bathroom half a floor down. I cut into the new drywall I found a large cluster in the loudest area, and just a few bees in the adjacent sections. I scooped the cluster out and put in a nuc box, and am quite certain I got the queen. After dark (3 hours later) I hauled away the nuc box, which had probably 20,000 bees in it. The problem is, there were still quite a few bees scattered throughout the wall. The homeowner vacuumed out all the ones he could reach from where I cut the wall, and I told him to leave all the windows in the room open and maybe they'd find their way out in the morning. Unfortunately, it's raining this morning, and his wife just called me to say there's a big cluster there again. I'm thinking the scattered bees have just come back together? The question is, if the queen is gone, will the rest vacate the premises, and if not, how can we get rid of them without tearing all the walls out? Eugene __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 08:53:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The instruction, "you only need to forward (this message) back to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU to have the command executed" should be very straight forward and easy to follow. Be carefule to forward the message back to: LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU DO NOT forward the message back to BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU DO NOT prefix the line of forwarded mail with extra characters. An alternative way to renew your BEE-L subscription is to send a single line of mail to: LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU that reads: CONFIRM BEE-L Subscribers who do not renew their subscription within the next two weeks will be automatically dropped from BEE-L on May 15. Aaron Morris BEE-L Owner/Editor/Moderator :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:02:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Bees in wall without queen -- will they leave? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > The question is, if the queen is gone, will the rest > vacate the premises, and if not, how can we get rid of > them without tearing all the walls out? Frankly, I'm not sure if the bees at that stage (having already moved into their new home) would return to their old home if indeed you did capture the queen in your nuc box OR if at that point they would have fixated on the new location and are there for keeps regardless of queen or not. I'd be tempted to let the bees tell YOU by bringing the nuc box back to see if the wall bees join the nuc or the nuc bees join the wall. Of course the home owners may not be up to the experiment. Regardless, go back to the swarm and capture the rest of the bees and add them to the nuc. Chances are you missed the queen n the wall. Unless you saw her you really have no idea. Aaron Morris - thinking swarm removals from walls are most times more problems than they are worth! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 07:44:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Keith asked, "What about the paint you bought at EAS '01???" Well, it was WHITE! I donated it to the auction at EAS '02 and was top bidder again. Hopefully someone else will be high bidder at EAS '03! EAS 2003, August 4-8, Bowdoin College, Brunswick, Maine! Be there! Learn about beekeeping! Learn more about beekeeping! Meet old and make new friends! Bid on the paint! http://easternapiculture.org/programs/2003/ Aaron Morris - thinking bid early, bid often! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:16:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Bees in wall without queen -- will they leave? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Eugene & All, Eugene asked: Bees in wall without queen -- will they leave? Usually they will not. Those which fly out will return later I suspect. It is possible that a few will return to the hive they swarmed from but not many in my opinion. They are clustering at the spot where the queen was and left her pheromones (or still is). Eugene said: I got there within 15 min. after they moved in, then waited 45 min. for the builder to get there and explain where the joists, etc., were. Possibly you hived the swarm before the swarm had completely organized. Eugene said: I scooped the cluster out and put in a nuc box, and am quite certain I got the queen. Go check your nuc and see if you did indeed get the queen. If not she is probbably still in the last cluster of bees. If you did get the queen then you will need to remove the left over bees the best way you can. We use a vacuum which saves the bees. A shop vac will work but will kill the bees. Eugene said: The problem is, there were still quite a few bees scattered throughout the wall. Always bees are left after hiving a swarm it seems. I always have to return the day after a house bee removal to vacuum up the remaining bees. I will do bee removal if the call comes at a slow time. I ALWAYS charge for the service. I try to bid accordingly but at times i bid the job to low. When this happens I do the job any way at the price quoted and try to do a better job of estimating next time. Eugene said: Unfortunately, it's raining this morning, and his wife just called me to say there's a big cluster there again. Now you see why other beekeepers charge for removal from structures. Right now is my busy time of the year. Taking time out for a bee removal would cost me more than any money received. Eugene said: I'm thinking the scattered bees have just come back together? Most likely the case but you could have missed the queen. Eugene asks: The question is, if the queen is gone, will the rest vacate the premises, Most likely not. and if not, how can we get rid of them without tearing all the walls out? Actually because you are only looking to remove disoriented bees if you remove the large cluster they talked about and seal everything up you should be ok as there is no honey to run in hot weather or dead brood to smell. In any case be sure to seal the entrance after you are done as swarms like to swarm to places swarms have been to before. Many times when people say: "A swarm of bees has been in the old tree for 50 years" I say: "Yes bees have been swarming into your tree for fifty years" Swarm: bees hanging in a tree or bush Bee removal: Swarm which has moved inside a structure. Very important to understand the difference. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 08:06:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Re: Bees in wall without queen -- will they leave? In-Reply-To: <5AF61A7A68D97645B968E3F6F7D069A10183BA@email.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I just left the neighbor's house. The "big cluster" was not. They were just seeing a lot of bees going in and out again. I vacuumed quite a few bees (maybe a thousand) from around the entrance (inside and out), and then the builder fogged the inside wall. Now there are a few hundred bees buzzing around outside, and we can still hear them inside the bathroom wall. I also visited the nuc's new home and found them building comb. I put the rest of the frames in and I'll look for the queen when the weather clears. >his wife just called me to say there's a big cluster >there again --- Aaron Morris wrote: > > The question is, if the queen is gone, will the > rest > > vacate the premises, and if not, how can we get > rid of > > them without tearing all the walls out? Chances are you missed the queen n > the wall. Unless you > saw her you really have no idea. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 18:06:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 29 Apr 2003 to 30 Apr 2003 (#2003-121) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/05/03 05:03:08 GMT Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: << Subject: Re: Free Bee-Removal like a Free Lunch???? >> I once charged the Environment Agency 300GBP for removing a colony from a double skinned shed.. They had been there for about 20 years but then some smartperson did a risk assessment and decided they had to go. The Agency's ethos was that this had to be done in an environmentally friendly way. It paid for my first trip to Gormanston. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 01:02:34 +0100 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Re: European Foul Brood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Quoting from Robin Dartingtons mail referring to EFB/ "Even if resistant bees were introduced, all infected equipment would still need to be destroyed as it apparently remains infectious for at least 40 years and not all bees will be of new resistant strains (unless there was a government restocking programme, which I cannot believe). So we must do all possible to stop EFB in UK expanding into a crisis." Referring, admit ably to an old text - E B Wedmore, "A manual of Beekeeping" 1948. ISBN 0 905652 01 0 Page360, it states the following: Destruction of EFB in Honey: 1. at 80°C takes 10 minutes 2. in the shade takes 8 months 3. in direct sunlight takes 4 hours Destruction of EFB in Water: 1. at 65°C takes 10 minutes 2. 2% Carbolic takes 6 hours 3. in direct sunlight takes 6 hours Destruction of EFB in Dry air: 1. in dark conditions takes 1 year or more 2. in direct sunlight takes 35 hours 3. at 100°C takes - unknown Any comments and updates would be welcome!, especially taking into account that Robin states that material remains infectious for at least 40 years Wedmore is the only text that I have that mentions any periods for infectious state. Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 19:16:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Re: Bees in wall without queen -- will they leave? In-Reply-To: <20030501150648.42362.qmail@web20604.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As of late this afternoon, there were just 3 or 4 bees around the entrance at any given time. The builders had repaired the inside drywall and were painting in the room. Eugene > Now there > are a few hundred bees buzzing around outside, and > we > can still hear them inside the bathroom wall. > > I also visited the nuc's new home and found them > building comb. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 19:20:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Yoonytoons Subject: Re: Free Bee-Removal like a Free Lunch???? Jim and the gang, I am, I must confess, a softie and I blinked. However, I will NEVER remove bees free again. Wonder if all beekeeprs in the union can organize and CHARGE and empower ourselves! Again, I pledge not to be duped or hoodwinked again. Thanks for your excellent inputs everyone! Few pictures of feral bees that had been under discussion and pictures of one of three yards, this one being at home. Sorry about the Moonlight Sonata in the background in the following url. http://intranet.sgc.edu/people/faculty/yskim/bee-pictures.htm Please note that the bees had swarmed only a week or so ago; hence, not many bees were there and not a single drone I found. Sort of like bee- version of convent maybe? Yoon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 08:45:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Glenn Hile Subject: Top Entrance Hives Does anyone have any experience with or opinions on the relatively new top entrance hives advertised in Beeculture? I was intrigued with the design and purchased one at the OSU Bee School to try . I set it up last evening with a split and one immediate concern I had is that the entrance to the hive is sitting directly under the hive top feeder. Robbing might be a major concern though the entrance is relatively small and should be easier to defend. Any thoughts? Glenn Hile Greenville, OH :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 15:14:30 +0200 Reply-To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Re: Free Bee-Removal like a Free Lunch???? In-Reply-To: <1ac701c30f9a$e2d5f9c0$7604c518@gollum> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear fwllows! I want to ask who is responsible for the Swarms?? They must come from somewhere. In my opinion we as beekeepers having one or thousand of hives must take the responsibility for swarms on our shoulders, and not put that on the shoulders on other people. This means that we should also cover the cost. If we can't keep our bees at home, we have to take care of that the bees are not the responsibility of other people than ourselves. Best regards Jorn Johanesson Multilingual software for beekeeping since 1997 hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software get a free updte from http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo/Bidata_langUP.zip 2.5 MB home page = HTTP://apimo.dk e-mail apimo@apimo.dk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 11:03:06 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Top Entrance Hives Glenn Hile said: > Does anyone have any experience with or opinions on the > relatively new top entrance hives advertised in Beeculture? > one immediate concern I had is that the entrance to the > hive is sitting directly under the hive top feeder. Robbing > might be a major concern though the entrance is relatively > small and should be easier to defend. In Virginia, as in most places not suitable for filming a remake of either "Ice Station Zebra" or "High Plains Drifter", our mantra is "ventilation, ventilation, ventilation". (Winter is over, so I hope I won't get too much flack from the tiny but vocal minority of beekeepers who chant the mantra "insulation, insulation, insulation" because they keep bees where extreme winter conditions exist.) Since you have a kit, maybe you can answer some questions: a) Is there any sort of "vent" at the base of the hive? If not, I'd be concerned about the airflow path for the lower part of the hive (brood chamber) below the entrance. b) Is the outer cover really placed directly on the top super? If so, I'd wonder if it would become glued in place by the bees, and unreachable with a hive tool due to the "lip" of the usual non-migratory outer cover. As an aside, I have tried the newer heavy-duty molded composite migratory covers offered by one of the larger migratory beekeepers, and they are a wonderful improvement over the usual wooden covers. These things are too sturdy and dense to be labeled "plastic". They appear to be made of something very dense and solid, like recycled tires combined with industrial epoxy. They even passed the "drive the Volvo over it several times" test. c) Is the entrance somehow expandable to full hive-width? If not, I'd wonder how the "fanning bees" could set up their usual formation to pull air into the hive for nectar evaporation. d) When it gets hot and muggy, will the bees cover the front face of the hive? I'd like to hear about this, if you care to post "results" later in the season. This (to me) was a big clue that the hive needed more airflow when I was first keeping bees, which I "solved" with old "retired" supers equipped with large vents covered with 8-mesh, and a bottom also covered with 8-mesh, placed below the inner cover. The bees rewarded me by covering the bottom mesh with propolis to block nearly all the spaces between the frames, proving that it was "too much of a good thing". In the same magazine, one can find an ad for the "Bee Cool" hive-top solar-powered hive vent kit. http://www.beecool.com The two products appear to be based upon very different basic assumptions about "what bees need". I'd love to set up a debate between the principles of each product at the next EAS, but I doubt that either would want to directly address the other's product as an "opposite" approach. Many have likely heard of the Imrie Shim, an "inner cover" with no solid panel, and entrance hole(s) added. (Go to http://www.beeequipment.com and search for "shim" to see a diagram.) These are intended as moveable top entrances to be added between supers to a standard langstroth-style hive during nectar flows. While a 3-way debate might be even better, one would have to be either very brave or suicidal to consider debating Mr. Imrie. There is also the "DE Hive" http://www.beeworks.com/D.E.Hive.htm which prompted me to seriously consider a 100% re-tooling of my bottom boards to turn the longer side of a langstroth hive to the "front", until I realized that I gained little by standing at the back of a hive versus continuing to stand at the side. This approach also stresses ventilation, but avoids electrical components. Since many of us reduce bottom entrances in winter, and add a top entrance, most often in the form of an inner cover with a notch or two in the "thick side", the kit appears to be very "winter oriented". The good news is that bees are very flexible creatures, and tend to adapt to and thrive in conditions that might appear to be "less than ideal" to one person or another. I'd be inclined to tear this hive down quickly when working it, just to see "where the bees hang out", if there is no inner cover, and "where they fan", if there is no usual "bottom board with large entrance" at the base of the hive. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 10:57:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Free Bee-Removal like a Free Lunch???? Comments: To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I want to ask who is responsible for the Swarms?? They must come from somewhere. Picking up swarms will all do. I have driven around 25 miles one way to pick up a swarm in June which is simply a free service. I know the swarm did not come from my apiaries as the nearest apiary is fifteen miles away and the swarm is useless to me then. Jorn said: In my opinion we as beekeepers having one or thousand of hives must take the responsibility for swarms on our shoulders, and not put that on the shoulders on other people. This means that we should also cover the cost. If we can't keep our bees at home, we have to take care of that the bees are not the responsibility of other people than ourselves. When asked the above about removing bees from structures I always tell the homeowner to catch one of the offending bees which have moved into his house and look for my tiny brand mark . If the bee has my tiny brand mark then I will remove the swarm from his structure for free. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 12:28:54 -0400 Reply-To: bee@digistar.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bee Mailing list Subject: Using Sevin to kill yellowjackets and hornets... around bees... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I discovered last night that a hornet had decided to build a nest near my sliding glass door in the back of the house. I'm thinking about using a concentrated Sevin spray (i.e., 72% concentration poured into an old 409 bottle set to squirt a stream) to spray the single hornet that is there now. Given that this is a high traffic area (it's the best path to get to my BBQ grill and deck) I want to make sure that these things don't return any time soon. I've read about the benefits of cypermethrin but I need something that will last a while. My beehives are a fair distance away (at least 75 feet) - does this pose much of a threat to the bees? thanks, Jason :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 13:06:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Using Sevin to kill yellowjackets and hornets... around bees ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > I'm thinking > about using a > concentrated Sevin spray (i.e., 72% concentration poured into > an old 409 > bottle set to squirt a stream) to spray the single hornet > that is there > now. Use soapy water in a standard garden sprayer. Concentration about what you'd do your dishes in. Spray the hornets directly. Quick and easy and will leave you plenty of time to peruse the BEE-L Archives at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l where "Soapy Water" used as a search arguement will give you more hits than you can read in the time it will take you to dispatch your hornets. Be advised that you are using the soapy water to clean your hornets (legal), not as an insecticide (illegal). Aaron Morris - think clean hornets and BEE-L archives! A great combination! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 11:45:18 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Top Entrance Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > (Winter is over, so I hope I won't get too much flack from the > tiny but vocal minority of beekeepers who chant the mantra > "insulation, insulation, insulation" because they keep bees > where extreme winter conditions exist.) It is interesting to see how -- regardless of how many qualifying statements have been made -- including many recommending various ventillation schemes -- somehow those who advocate insulation under some conditions, are assumed by some not to appreciate or promote proper ventillation. I don't know of any beekeepers who insulate who do not also make special provisions for ventillation. The two concepts -- insulation and ventilation -- are complementary, not not diametrically opposed, although they are often assumed to be so, by those who have not given the matter much thought. Just to repeat one more time, those of us who insulate, also use special holes to ensure adequate ventillation. Some put them on top, some on the bottom, and some in the middle of the hive, but AFAIK, we all use special ventillation tricks. The optimal amount of ventillation varies with time of year and the condition of the bees, as well as locale. Under many conditions, it is possible to overdo ventillation, and get reduced crops, or weakened bees. As with most things, moderation, attention to the ambient conditions, and careful observation of the bees is usually the safest course. The bees will tell the beekeeper what to do, if only the beekeeper is observant. Whether we are discussing hive volume, amount of feed, hive colour, location and number of entrances, height from ground, choice of location, shade or no shade, etc., etc., etc., we are simply discussing how to achieve optimal conditions for our bees. The methods suitable establishing ideal conditions under one environment, may be totally unsuitable at another place or time. Understanding how all these factors can be managed to provide a hive that is not too big or too small, to hot or too cold, too damp or too dry is at the root of good and successful beekeeping. Suggesting that any of the above factors, or others, are 'good' or 'bad' is comparable to saying screwdrivers are 'good', but hammers are 'bad'. I hope that we can all manage to understand that the essence of good beekeeping is observing and understanding our bees, and contemplating the possible ways of improving conditions for the bees. That means considering, and using, all tools at our disposal in the proper time and place. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 14:39:59 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Queen Quit Laying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob Harrison wrote that he always feeds his bees 1:1 sugar syrup when requeening to help with queen introduction. I have done exactly that for 70+ years, and rarely fail to get introduction. Of GREAT INTEREST to me is WHY so many beeKEEPERS and notably beeHAVERS are too CHEAP to feed 5 pounds of sugar when it costs only 30¢/pound. I just don't understand that kind of thinking, better called NOT thinking. People take vitamin pills to aid their health, people feed their dog, their cat, their horses vitamin pills to improve their pet's coat appearance. I wear expensive hand painted ties to improve my appearance in public. For MANY years, I requeen EVERY colony I have, used to be over 100, on September 1st by the "nuc" method, ALWAYS feed 1:1 sugar syrup, and RARELY lose a queen. Feeding of sugar syrup does great things for bees, particularly improving their morale, diminishing any stress that they might have, improving their winter store position, forces them to draw foundation to store that feed, and all bee scientists acknowledge that sugar syrup is a far better winter food than honey, because there are no contaminants or any disease spores or bacteria in high grade cane sugar. AND THE COST IS ONLY ABOUT 30¢/pound. Of course, as in any other hobby or commercial enterprise, there are those "nuts" or extremists citing belief in ORGANIC honey, or sayings like "natures way", "not touched by human hands", or "PURE honey", or any other saying that implies that the bees have produced all their honey WITHOUT ANY OUTSIDE ASSISTANCE in the health of the bees. Lastly, there are those beekeepers who DON'T REALIZE that bees PROCESS THE SUGAR SYRUP THAT YOU FEED THEM JUST AS THEY PROCESS THE NECTAR BOUGHT TO THE COLONY FROM CLOVER, BLACK LOCUST, or TUPELO. Sugar syrup is a solution of SUCROSE, and the bees ripen it into honey by injecting the enzyme Invertase which divides the polysaccharides into two simple monosaccharide sugars named fructose and glucose, and the excess water is evaporated down to 16%-18% water. Lastly, from a business viewpoint, when sugar costs 30¢/pound and the hobbyist can sell his honey for $3.00-$4.00/pound or the commercial beekeeper can now get about $1.00/per pound bulk, WHAT is WRONG about feeding sugar syrup to assist the bees and is far more healthy than any honey, AND SAVE LOTS OF MONEY BY SELLING THE HONEY AT A HIGHER PRICE THAN SUGAR AT 30¢/pound. Perhaps some don't realize that in those100+ years prior to the mites, that most Canadian Honey Producers KILLED all their bees in late summer, extracted all the honey in the colony, and started NEW colonies in late spring of the next year and fed them lavishly on sugar syrup. BTW, all my remarks in this note about sugar is about bags of cane table sugar , and NOT about high fructose sugar, which is chemically made from starch. George Imirie Certified EAS Master Beekeeper Beginning my 71st year of beekeeping in Maryland just 20 miles north of President Bush's WHITE HOUSE. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 14:55:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: yoonytoons Subject: Re: Top Entrance Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >The bees will tell the beekeeper what to do, if only the beekeeper is observant. Amen. I am in violent agreement with Allen’s premise here. One way of observing the hive congestion, as I mentioned earlier, is to visit the bees at night and check the smarmy-looking bee-beard and then ventilate according to your set up: SBB, holes, shims, even screened tops under the outercover with spacers in between. As many of you have seen in my last photo, I just knock out a pine-knot came built-in in the wood; most commercial/budget grade wood contain them at naturally convenient spots with varying sizes. When I am out of screened bottoms, I just lift up the outercover, using two one-by scrap timber beneath. Yes, insulation complements ventilation: I also now use 1-inch Styrofoam insulation on top of the outercover to block the chill and heat at the same time. Yes, Yogi, we can observe a lot by watching them. Yoon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 15:57:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bee1Bob1@AOL.COM Subject: Re: European Foul Brood. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quoting from Robin Dartingtons mail referring to EFB/ "Even if resistant bees were introduced, all infected equipment would still need to be destroyed as it apparently remains infectious for at least 40 years and not all bees will be of new resistant" EFB is caused by a non-spore forming bacteria - Melissococcus pluton, which only survives on combs. In the UK it is treated by using the antibiotic oxytracycline(OTC) in sugar syrup on colonies where less than 50% of the larvae are infected. The bees are re-combed and can recover. I the infection is too serious the bees are killed and they, together with all combs, wax and honey, are burnt. The hive is then flamed to kill all traces. A new treatment is to make a "shook swarm" i.e. shake all the bees into a new box of new frames and foundation and then treat with OTC. The first indications are that the level of reoccurrence of the disease is reduced by this method. To answer the question EFB is not very resistant and can be cleaned from equipment easily unlike AFB which forms spores which will survive quite harsh treatments and in the UK is controlled by killing and burning the colony except for any parts that can be flamed to a chocolate colour. Bob Gilbert Tamworth Staffordshire England :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 22:56:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Glenn Hile Subject: Re: Top Entrance Hives In-Reply-To: <011f01c310bb$efc21a70$7604c518@gollum> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim asked: Since you have a kit, maybe you can answer some questions: a) Is there any sort of "vent" at the base of the hive? Though it was available as a kit (bottom board, inner cover, entrance box and top), I had the same ventilation concerns as you with his solid bottom board. I elected to only purchase the cover and top entrance combination. I installed standard deep brood boxes on a screened bottom board (entrance closed) which hopefully will give adequate ventilation through the top entrance and notched inner cover or raised outer cover. The entrance consists of a 4 inch by 1 inch opening. b) Is the outer cover really placed directly on the top super? I will try to describe this patented top entrance system. It consists of a 3 inch deep box with the inside filled in with a hollow box with bee space around 3 sides. The front side has a 4 inch by 4 inch cutout allowing bees to go from the brood box below to the supers, feeders, etc. above as well as out the entrance. The entrance looking at it from the front is 4 inch by 1 inch. I would think the hollow box would provide some dead air space insulating capacity. | | | | __________________________________ | | | | | ________ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |_______ | | | | | | |__________________________________| | | _________________| | |________ _____ _ _| I am not sure my sketches do it justice. If anyone is interested, email me directly and I will send photos. c) Is the entrance somehow expandable to full hive-width? No, the entrance is 4 X 1 fixed width cut into the box. The inventor of this system says he has been using it for over 5 years with no problems. With the entrance being two deeps off the ground it should eliminate any animal predation. d) When it gets hot and muggy, will the bees cover the front face of the hive? I'd like to hear about this, if you care to post "results" later in the season. I have two "normal" hives adjacent to this new system for comparison. I will report later any significant results as to how they handle the Ohio humid summer and if I get robbing through the entrance into the hive top feeder. glenn :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 00:02:05 +0100 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Re: Queen Quit Laying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George, Quoting your mail "Sugar syrup is a solution of, SUCROSE, and the bees ripen it into honey by injecting the enzyme Invertase which divides the polysaccharides into two simple monosaccharide sugars named fructose and glucose, and the excess water is evaporated down to 16%-18% water." I presume that you do not endorse the use of cane sugar as a source material for the production of honey! We have enough problems controlling what arrives on to the market as it is, without the aid of a Master Beekeeper!! Regards Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 23:46:53 +0100 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Re: European Foul Brood. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Gilbert mentions that EFB is not "very resistant" and like many individuals quote the fact that unlike AFB, it is deemed to be caused by the non-sporalating M. pluton. Treatment by use of OTC controls the clinical symptoms that usually burst onto the scene in early spring. But at this time, many hives still will contain an upper chamber containing substantial amounts of sealed honey from previous season (or before) and/or sealed feed material. It appears to me - concerning colonies that have already shown previous larval deaths due to EFB, that the presence of this material renders the use of OTC invalid. That is, as often claimed, if the treatment is being undertaken for the eradication of the infection in the colony It would be most useful to be informed of what is the present day estimation for the survival period of M. pluton in stored reserves in hive conditions. This is surely the major link in the infection cycle - the one that has to be ruptured. Added to the above situation - early spring is the time of the year when attempts to equalise colonies takes place. The temptation or need to move frames from one colony to another occurs. Resulting in the potential for infected stores being opened by recipient colonies - only to release its deadly cargo. And whilst contemplating: Plastic frames/ plastic foundation - valuing undoubted ease of use + all other pros. presented in previous mails. Do they not create the thought train that frames are present for long term use, instead of being integrated in a rotation process? Also, being "plastic" - what type of plastic? And where is the final usual resting place for such - local tip (allowing for disease spread), incineration (controlled or local bonfire) or collected for recycling (into garden chairs and tables)? Regards Peter (Rain, rain and now gales as the false acacia starts flowering) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 21:39:22 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Using Sevin to kill yellowjackets and hornets... around bees... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I discovered last night that a hornet had decided to build a nest > near my sliding glass door in the back of the house. ... > Given that this is a high traffic > area (it's the best path to get to my BBQ grill and deck) Well, I had wasp and hornet nests in my BBQ area, and even one that had a part exposed every time I opened my garage door. I -- and my non-insect loving visitors -- enjoyed them very much -- and no one was stung, or sprayed. Some beekeepers like to dislike non-apis species, and pin blame on them for every inter-species incident, but to me that mindset is no different from an irrational hatred of honey bees. The law most places is that every dog gets one free bite; then the sanctions of law clamp down to protect passersby. In my experience, most wasps and hornets are better neigbours than the local bipeds, or, for that matter quadrupeds. Why not give them a break? Innocent until proven guilty? allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 18:09:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Vital Gaudreau Subject: Disease free swarm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Following the discussion re: bee-removal free or fee...eh! you get free bees....hmmmm! What is the risk of contamination that someone takes by collecting a "swarm" from an unknown source? Would you say chances are that it is 100% disease free or there is a high risk of contamination of your own apiary? What are your experiences and recommandations? Thank you Vital Gaudreau Sainte-Therese, Quebec _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis ! http://messenger.fr.msn.ca/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 01:05:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 1 May 2003 to 2 May 2003 (#2003-123) In-Reply-To: <200305030400.h433PaEj002056@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 5/2/03 23:00, Jason wrote: > I'm thinking about using a concentrated Sevin spray ... to spray the single hornet. Why not use a fly swatter and completely avoid any chemicals. One hornet? Spry? I've use fly swatters before to good effect. Mike Stoops Lower Alabama :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 00:31:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Re: Using Sevin to kill yellowjackets and hornets... around bees... In-Reply-To: <00ed01c31125$97b17f00$3051fea9@Pegasus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 2 May 2003 at 21:39, allen dick wrote: > In my experience, most wasps and hornets are better neigbours than the > local bipeds, or, for that matter quadrupeds. > > Why not give them a break? > > Innocent until proven guilty? Take a look at: http://www.pollinator.com/tomatoworms.htm Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 09:13:00 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Re: Using Sevin to kill yellowjackets and hornets... around bees... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree whole heartedly!!!! If we lose wasps, hornets, and other pollinators, we will begin to feel the results at the farmers market as prices rise. Please encourage others to try to live with them. Bee good neighbors with all pollinators. Lionel North Alabama :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 10:31:45 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Using Sevin to kill yellowjackets and hornets... around bees... Jason said: >> a hornet had decided to build a nest near my >> sliding glass door in the back of the house >> Given that this is a high traffic area >> (it's the best path to get to my BBQ grill >> and deck)... And various folks sang, in 4-part harmony: > Why not give them a break? > Innocent until proven guilty? Oh, come on! We are talking about ONE hornet building a nest right near a door that kids and guests use! To those who say "innocent until proven guilty", I'd like to ask why they have smoke detectors, homeowner's insurance, and liability insurance. Why not wait until something bad happens? :) I would break off the nest with a pair of needle-nose pliers, take it somewhere else, shake the hornet off, and then clean the area where the nest was attached with first vinegar and then isopropyl alcohol to get rid of any pheromones. The SINGLE hornet will find another place to build a nest. I would not use poisons, simply because poisons do not eliminate the attractant pheromones that seem to prompt wasps and hornets to rebuild at the same spot. I don't like poisons. Regardless, a single-point application of a poison would pose negligible risk to bees, since there is nothing of interest to bees where the poison is to be used. Extra credit can be awarded for extreme environmental sensitivity to those who move the nest and re-hang it with fishing line. When I lived on the beach in Florida, I bought a pair of house Geckos to hunt down and eat any Palmetto bugs (giant mutant flying cockroaches impossible to kill with anything smaller than a 45-caliber round) that might scuttle in through open doors. It was an "environmentally responsible" way to deal with an repulsive insect, and Geckos are entertaining creatures. Later I noticed that we suddenly had multiple Geckos per room, so we got a kitten to keep the Gecko population under control. I joked to neighbors that my St. Benards kept the cat population under control, and I thus had a balanced home ecosystem. jim (who has lots of wasp nests in his barn, free to a good home) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 13:23:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jason Buchanan Subject: Re: Using Sevin to kill yellowjackets and hornets... around bees... In-Reply-To: <42.38137f59.2be51a5c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jason "Vespid" Buchanan wrote: > I discovered last night that a hornet had decided to build a nest near my > sliding glass door in the back of the house. As it turns out, there were a lot more than just 1 lone wolf hanging around up there. There were about a dozen on the nest and another 10-20 or more standing watch... Last night after work I carefully opened the sliding glass door again to verify that the hornet and nest was still there and to my surprise I found "a big mass of white and black" aware of the door being opened. Thanks to the help of the list members I decided not to use an insecticide but instead some household bathroom cleaner in a spray bottle. My wife doesn't think name-brand cleaners are worth the extra price so the Brand X soap scum remover in a 409-type bottle set to spray a "stream" did the trick. They just fell straight down to the floor. I went outside to clean up the rest of the dead ones and discovered that there were another dozen or so that were sitting on top of the sliding door between the door and the jamb who decided to come out and play - they were quickly dispatched by the Brand X cleaner as well. I think I counted somewhere around 20 of them when it was all said and done. The size of the nest went from a half inch to about 1 inch in the space of 20 hours. I'm glad I found them when I did - they most certainly would have wreaked much havoc today because we're having a small deck party later today and that door is the main thoroughfare between the deck and the kitchen. I'm really glad I didn't use Sevin or a commercial insecticide. Many thanks to the patient readers of the list (and Aaron too!) regards, Jason :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 14:48:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Skriba Subject: Where it all began? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Funny thing happened on a way to a fishing hole the other day with a co-worker whom I helped start a few hives this year. He asked me how long I had bees and how I got started. Well It got me to pondering, and I told him as a kid I had always been interested in bees, so my grandparents took me to the county extension office and I got a few pamphlets on bees and went to the library and checked out a few books. Studied, and worked all fall and winter long saving enough money to buy a starter hive kit thru the Sears Farm and Ranch Catalog. Yes thats right Sears Farm and Ranch (giving away my age here). My dad and a local beekeeper were friends and when he heard that I had ordered the kit, he said "You just can't have one", and within a couple of days I had 2 complete hives plus the kit that I had from Sears. Ordered my first 3 packages from York Bee, and never looked back from the ripe old age of 10 LOL. Another beekeeping friend of mine asked me the other day, what drives a person to want to keep bees. We mused about how maybe it was that we derived some form of pleasure being able to produce something from nature. How many of us on this forum have tapped a stand of maples and fired up a wood burning evaporator, ran a trapline, chased coonhounds at 3 in the morning thru a woods that you thought had no end, raised your own livestock, enjoy sitting in a duckblind or a deer blind on opening day with your kids, plant a garden and then realize you planted enough for you the 6 neighbors across the road and your dentist's, garbageman's sister, thrown up a greenhouse, enjoy sittin and watchin the sun slowly ebb from the sky at dusk, or sit and watch the meteor showers when the thermometer says get back inside? Maybe some of you havent done these things and maybe some of you are repulsed by the notion of a few of them, but there is a common thread that we share, maybe the marvel of how diverse and complicated a swarm of bees can be. Something drives us to do what we do, just looking for what is that keeps you going to the hive, dancing a jig when a bee gets up your pantleg. 30 years and 250 swarms later, it would be interesting to know what got you started and what it is that keeps your beekeeping fire lit? Bill Ithaca, MI :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 23:22:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Skriba Subject: Beekeepers from England MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know that this list has an international audience, and this might be like finding a needle in the haystack, BUT.. In March of this year a friend and I were on a "beekeeping vacation" to the Sebring, Avon Park area of Florida and stayed in the Highland Hill Hammock state campground. Right next to our campsite was a couple from England who were there to watch the 12 Hours of Sebring Road race. Came about in conversation that the woman kept bees back home in England. We both departed before we could exchange email adresses. If you were that person or know of that person, could you please put them in touch with me at WSkriba@aol.com, it would be great to hear from them again. Bill Skriba Ithaca, MI :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 22:04:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Al Lipscomb Subject: Re: (no subject) Comments: To: Orlandobee@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable God I hate to do this but: =20 THIS IS A HOAX! The file is a Windows system file and if you delete it = your system will have problems! Yes there is a "teddy bear" on the icon, = but it is legit. This is a social engineered virus, someone is trying to = get you to mess up your own system. Do not do it. Look here = http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jdbgmgr.exe.file.hoax.html=20 =20 for information on this hoax. =20 ---=20 Al Lipscomb=20 -----Original Message----- From: Orlandobee@aol.com [mailto:Orlandobee@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 4:48 PM To: lhousel@earthlink.net; bsbright@earthlink.net; Goodpuppydog@aol.com; = Magicsaxophone@aol.com; jmisjohn@msn.com; Dancingfoolbg@aol.com; = GMSGrrl@aol.com; Al Lipscomb; tosemail1@aol.com; abj@dadant.com; = abuse@excite.com; abuse@hotmail.com; abuse@msn.com; abuse@yahoo.com; = beeman@gci.net; Apis_Newsletter@yahoogroups.com; shannon@glorybee.com; = rj.bassett@verizon.net; BeeCrazy00@aol.com; BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU; = kbeerbower@aol.com.; hbhc@ix.netcom.com; beth@eco-store.com; = plb6@CORNELL.EDU; brendacole@cfl.rr.com; Brunner@pegasus.cc.UCF.edu; = steve@thebeeworks.com; mrflabee@cox.net; PatB32750@aol.com; = Patricia_Burkett@scps.k12.fl.us; edwards@TUCSON.ARS.AG.GOV; = Dan_castorani@ci.sarasota.fl.us; hoya2@earthlink.net; = Califorinia@aol.com; beecrofter@aol.comBee; cuttsl@doacs.state.fl.us; = Dadant@dadant.com; DeeALusby@netscape.net; deealusby1@aol.com; = dennis@gravesonline.com; dhellyar@cfl.rr.com; be3686@ark.ship.edu; = deborah_ebbert@hotmail.com; ron_ebbert@uasd.k12.pa.us; = editor@sailingscuttlebutt.com; EKFLA@aol.com; anton@HONEYBADGER.CO.ZA; = fjglazier@worldnet.att.net; wfalls@stetson.edu; = FloridaBeekeepers@egroups.com; ThePollenMan@webtv.net; = belindagg@earthlink.net; kleopattra57@hotmail.com; BrandyLeeG@aol.com; = Pollinator@aol.com; dhadley@CNFA.ORG; busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM; = chbf3@sprintmail.com; class@dadant.com; T4JDOG@aol.com; = sky@hawklord.com; carolsky@cfl.rr.com; sholland@cfl.rr.com; = Germanbee5@aol.com; luls@nodarse.com.; pdspyke@arapahocitrus.com; = MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU; jrossman@surfsouth.com; kim@airoot.com; = crittersmith@hotmail.com; IrishBeekeeping@listbot.com; Peter Borst; = sasseville4queens@YAHOO.COM; 90honey@acninc.net; RAMartin1@aol.com; = djapiaryinc@earthlink.net.; lackeyray@tianca.com; dpryce@cfl.rr.com; = L-Parr@tamu.edu; beeactor@earthlink.net; MiksaHF@aol.com; = kelleybees@creative-net.net; CRKelley@aol.com; naturebee@yahoo.com; = sunflower5j@hotmail.com; j.h.park@larc.nasa.gov; karens@w-idaho.net; = mpalmer@together.net; Bardhollow@aol.com; MLREINDEERS@juno.com; = KBeerbower@aol.com; Housel@PeoplePC.com; TREYJACOBS@aol.com; = bees@bee-company.com; ploll@mpinet.net; ANelligan@usart.com; = jritchey@ipa.net; Bubbles21_2005@hotmail.com; kelli@tsagate.com; = ehousel@uswest.net; bhousel@wmata.com; alanhousel@provisionphoto.com; = Millstoneaaron@aol.com; shousel@rpof.org; info@tropicbeehoney.com; = CaronlinR@cfl.rr.com; JMitc1014@aol.com; nc11435@earthlink.net; = JosephWJohnson@compuserve.com; yskim@cpn-net.com; aklein@writeme.com; = PLAI@cvrc.org; pmendez@mendezlaw.com; reno@ATLANTIC.NET; = jmahuron@blueriver.net; alaskabeekeeper@hotmail.com; RayM@CMAINC.COM; = mmcneil@wco.com; jfm6f@unix.mail.virginia.edu; = MSimmons@Asyst-Connect.com; KSte680769@aol.com; mjm121@optonline.net; = morae@ocps.k12.fl.us; morharn@MINT.NET; hvgjun@juno.com; = Jcnwimauma@aol.com; honeybee@elgon.se; reiss_jenna@yahoo.com; = HumanBeing69@aol.com; pkr@icon.lal.ufl.edu; erussell@sunline.net; = s_seseseko@yahoo.co.uk; jennie_stannard@und.nodak.edu; = Tedhood39@aol.com; tommozer@hotmail.com; jean_vasicek@yahoo.com; = k4htz@bellsouth.net Subject: (no subject) A VIRUS HAS BEEN PASSED TO ME BY EMAIL CONTACT. My address book was = infected. Since you are in my address book, there is a good chance you = will find it in your computer too. The virus (called jdbgmgr.exe) is = not detected by Norton nor McAfee Anti-virus system. The virus sits = quietly for 14 days before damaging the system. It is sent automatically = by messenger and by the address book, whether or not you sent Emails to = your contacts. Here is how to check for the virus and how to rid of it. = PLEASE DO SO. Follow these simple directions carefully so you do not = inadvertently open the file containing the virus. 1. Go to Start, then = click your Find or Search option. 2. In the file folder option type = the name...jdbgmgr.exe 3. Be sure you search your C drive and all sub = folders and any other drives you may have. 4. Click "find now". 5. The = virus has a teddy bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe DO NOT OPEN IT. = 6. Go to edit (on the menu bar) and choose "select all" to highlight the = file without opening it. 7. Now go to File (on the menu bar) and select = delete. It will then go to the recycle bin via explorer. Go to recycle = and select all and delete it from your recycle bin. If you find the = virus you must contact all of the people in your address book so they = can eradicate it from their own address books. To Do This: 1. Open a = new email message 2. Click the icon of the address book 3. Highlight = every name, add to "BCC" 4. Copy this message paste to email and send.=20 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 01:33:56 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Disease free swarm Vital Gaudreau said: > What is the risk of contamination that someone takes by collecting a > "swarm" from an unknown source? Just to verify/clarify terms, an actual "swarm" would not be an established colony. It would have little or no comb and negligible stores, making the removal job much less taxing. One of the easy ways to differentiate a "recent swarm" from an "established colony" is the amount and apparent age (color, fragility) of the comb. > Would you say chances are that it is 100% disease free or there > is a high risk of contamination of your own apiary? Well, I'd expect that a true swarm would have a better chance of being relatively "disease and pest free" than a typical in-the-hive colony, since a diseased or infested colony would be much less likely to build up to swarming population strength. (Which, except for tracheal mites, pokes a large logical hole in the oft-repeated claims about the "natural spread" of diseases and pests via swarms. Admit it - beekeepers move diseased and infested bees more often, in greater numbers, and over longer distances than bees can swarm. Beekeepers also keep hives much closer together than would ever be the case if the bees were selecting their own hive locations.) In contrast, long-established "feral" colonies present an interesting question - how did they survive? Are they somehow naturally disease and pest-resistant? (The "Holy Grail" of beekeeping in the 21st Century.) The other side of the coin is that one could well have a colony site that has been occupied by a series of temporary tenant colonies, each surviving for only a short period. I thought I had found such a "Holy Grail" colony until I climbed up on the roof to sit and strategize, and discovered that the structure from which I was removing bees was only a few hundred yards from a backyard apiary. Upon examination (with the participation of the apiary owner) it showed all the signs of being a classic "swarm factory" - bottom brood chambers propolized tight to bottom boards, indicating that reversing had not been done (perhaps ever), lots of queen cell remnants, and two colonies with sharply lower populations than the other two. Upon actual removal of the rogue colony, there was lots of comb that was empty and appeared to be disused. No idea why the wax moths had not done their usual "clean up job". Did I make him a gift of "his" bees? Heck no! I had to borrow a bucket truck from the cable-TV company to get at that colony, and had a heck of a time snapping the 8-foot long sections of vinyl siding off the house single-handedly without breaking any. You try wearing safety glasses under your veil and operating a Saws-All 30 feet in the air sometime. You will also want the bees and the cash. The third side of the coin... (Three-sided coins? Sure - the Bermuda gold coins, which ounce for ounce, beat the heck out of those tacky Kuggerands on both style and investment value http://www.bma.bm/bmawww.nsf/WebPages/1996TriangularCoin?OpenDocument ) ...is that some colonies are just plain lucky, avoiding diseases and pests by isolation or chance, only to show no signs of any magical "resistance" after you remove them with care, give them a home, and watch over them. In this scenario, one's own colonies are the source of diseases and pests that infest and infect the otherwise disease and pest-free "rescued" colony or swarm. So, you play the hand you're dealt. jim Who has found these gizmos to be well-made tools for "Xtreme Bee Removal" from high structures http://www.argear.com/gear/grpetzlascension.html http://www.argear.com/gear/grharnesses.html http://www.argear.com/gear/grsnapcyclops.html :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 08:06:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Yoonytoons Subject: Definition of Natural Beekeeping? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A Possible Working Definition of *Natural Beekeeping* Inspired by Allen’s remark and having been engrossed with the notion of “natural beekeeping” suggested earlier by Robin in the British Isle, I thought I offer my working definition of Natural Beekeeping for public in general and graduate students in particular: That particular mode of beekeeping, wherein the beekeeper channels, improves, enhances, and sometimes accelerates the inherent needs of the bees by frequent, careful, close observations, regardless of the wants of the beekeeper and the materials used in the operation. Yoon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 11:12:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Definition of Natural Beekeeping? I observed natural beekeeping for almost a decade in South Africa, and the thousands of years of such practice have resulted in something not always pleasant to be around, AKA the Killer Bee. The people don't do anything at all except harvest occasionally. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 12:11:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Re: Definition of Natural Beekeeping? In-Reply-To: <200305041512.h44F9BCt018820@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 4 May 2003 at 11:12, Tim Vaughan wrote: > I observed natural beekeeping for almost a decade in South Africa, and the > thousands of years of such practice have resulted in something not always > pleasant to be around, AKA the Killer Bee. The people don't do anything at > all except harvest occasionally. -A good example of selective breeding in favor of fierce bees - the ones that can drive off the human robber are the most likely to suvive. Dave - a keeper not a robber, who gets tired of being asked, "When are you going to rob the bees?" -Never robbed a hive and never will. The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 11:56:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Definition of Natural Beekeeping? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave - "When are you going to rob the bees?" -Never robbed a hive and never will. Many old sayings in beekeeping. One I used to hear and heard again about four years ago. I was coming up the side roads in New Mexico making my way around a weigh scale when I saw an old beekeeper sitting in the back of his pickup truck in an old tattered lawn chair with a homemade sign saying "Honey for Sale". I stopped and inquired about the dark and the light honey he was selling. The beekeeper said the light honey was his "spring squeezing" and the dark was his "fall squeezing" I could tell by the grease under his nails that he spent a great deal of time working on the old "bee truck" he was sitting in. I hoped he at least washed his hands before squeezing the honey I bought. The honey looked clear but was crystallized about a quarter way up the quart mason jar ( as was all the jars in the two cases he offered for sale). Several people bought honey while I was at the stand and others were pulling in as I left. I had to chuckle as I pulled back on the highway as I had not heard extracting honey referred to as "squeezing" for over twenty years. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 22:53:08 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Bee-L Disease free swarm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Vital Gaudreau ased: " What is the risk of contamination that someone = takes by collecting a "swarm" from an unknown source? I have collected around 7 to 10 swarms per year for the last few years = in a nearby country town, after they were reported by the public to the = local Council. These are always clustered on bushes or sometime bus = shelters, and have been out of the hive for only a day or two. They get = hived in odd boxes to see how they do.=20 In my area, one or more carry EFB and have to be destroyed by the end of = the season. Others do not develop a good nest, after all, swarm queens = are old. Around a third are casts, small lots, and the virgins do not = always mate. But amongst them I always hope to find one good prime = swarm, headed by a pedigree(?) queen (assuming large size indicates = well-developed ovaries in an old queen). The problem is that she has to = be superceded or she will likely die in the winter/spring. The = replacements have never yet been better than the queens raised from my = better existing colonies.=20 So I have come to think you more often than not get rubbish in terms of = breeding, with a substantial risk of disease that takes time to deal = with and introduces risk from drifting.=20 How do diseased stocks survive in the wild? Curiously, I suspect, by = swarming. Field trials of artificial swarming by Ritter back in 1987 = found 47-92 mites in the artificial swarm compared with 2500-2900 mites = left in the parent stock (in the sealed brood). A couple of years back I = had a stock that seemed to have virus - suddenly, in autumn , it = swarmed. I suspect there may be a natural instinct in bees when = succumbing to disease to send out a swarm with whatever healthy bees = there are - they would carry some disease, but might be able to = establish a new colony and send out another swarm before succumbing. = This would be akin to absconding when the nest is heavily attacked by = say ants.=20 I had hoped to build an apiary by collecting fresh swarms. I now doubt = it is worth saving then at all. Perhaps best to collect (to save the = public being inconvenienced) but unless they look particularly good, = best to destroy immediately, or perhaps de-queen and keep uniting all = the swarms together, and take whatever they produce by autumn. = Certainly, I would now never ever unite to an established colony.=20 It probably depends on where these fresh stray swarms are coming from. = Many of mine are possibly feral. Someone else may be picking up superb = fresh swarms from those lost by a nearby professional beekeeper. Let's = have more case histories.=20 Robin Dartington=20 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 19:45:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: smoker fuels MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use pine punk now, about half rotted, and very slightly damp. It's easy to handle, lights very easily, holds a fire well, and smells sweet and very pleasant, almost like pipe tobacco. I find that I don't mind it's odor on my clothes, and I've also noticed that my bees seem to "like" it better than some of the other materials I've used (burlap, brown paper, sumac pods, etc.) - it may be that it has sufficient moisture to cool the smoke, and it's not harsh. I'ts easy to obtain in quantity, if you live near some pine forest. If I need a longer burn, I throw in a knot or two, as it's much harder than the sapwood. FWIW - punk is what Native Americans used to keep a portable fire for days while traveling. Regards, Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 17:36:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: steve noble Subject: Re: Bee-L Disease free swarm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Let's have more case histories" Last year, I set up my first hive with a brand new 3lb package and marked queen. It was installed on the 17th of April on foundation. On one of the first warm days in June, after filling up two deep brood chambers, they swarmed, leaving two deep brood chambers and two completely empty medium supers of foundation. (The undrawn foundation, incidently, was plasticell, but I am not giving up on it yet because I paid good money for it damn it.) Since I didn't have any extra equipment and no money to buy more, I captured the swarm in a cardboard box and gave them to a friend who was very grateful. I didn't know about recombining at the time. That was a championship queen and a bunch of healthy field bees that he kept through the winter. My remaining colony built back up and is still with me, hopefully recovering from a heavy mite infestation. I don't see how you can make broad generalizations about swarms. They could be just about anything. Especially around here where there are little apiaries all over the place. It does seem wise to keep an eye on them for a while, though. Steve Noble :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 22:26:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Disease free swarm "Since I didn't have any extra equipment and no money to buy more, I captured the swarm in a cardboard box and gave them to a friend who was very grateful." Good job, Steve, you're as stubborn as a....... well, a beekeeper! The average person would have let it go! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 23:49:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Harold M. Liberman" Subject: Re: smoker fuels MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sir, I would like to use pine punk. But just what part of the tree is pine punk? HML :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 06:42:49 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Cara &Tom Patterson Subject: update on Aurora Colorado beekeeping ordinance Comments: To: Northland bee keepers , BiologicalBeekeeping@yahoogroups.com, beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, Organicbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, TomatoMania@yahoogroups.com, GardeningOrganically@yahoogroups.com, organichomesteadinggardening@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1c8.92a647b.2be568ec@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I know there are a few people interested in the continuing saga of the Aurora Colorado beekeeping ordinance so I thought I would do an update. At this point the news is good. The committee is working on a draft ordinance that is based on the Fort Collins Colorado ordinance. It will be somewhat simpler than Fort Collins. In the next few weeks (3-8) the committee will present the draft to the entire city council in a study session. Following the study session a final ordinance will be written. The final will then be presented to the public in a city Council meeting. The ordinance will then be voted on at that meeting by the council. At this time there is good support for beekeeping in the council and the ordinance will hopefully pass without any onerous amendments. This is a good bill and a fabulous step forward for beekeeping in Aurora. Hopefully it and the many other favorable beekeeping laws will help other municipalities to follow suit. I was told at one point to just be quiet because there was no law against beekeeping in Aurora and not to bring attention to it. Just leave things like they are. However there were people who wanted beekeeping banned and they weren't going to "leave things as they are" Thankfully by the grace of God a series of things happened that allowed myself and others to first prevent the banning of beekeeping (this was written into a large animal control ordinance and was only one sentence, but it was a clear ban in that sentence.) From there, through education, the council came around to see the value of beekeeping. I urge all of the urban beekeepers who live in municipalities that don't have a beekeeping ordinance to get to know your city council members, find out how the laws are made in your community and start to get a favorable law where you live. You CAN do it and if you don't someone with the opposite desires may get to the council first. Don't wait till someone gets a law banning beekeeping passed to start doing something. Councilman Bob LeGare, who has been the ordinance advocate from the begriming, said " be respectful to council even if they disagree. There is no surer way to be defeated that to have someone get up and call council a bunch of jerks" He also pointed out that threats aren't very effective in winning support either. Good luck to any who wish to do this where they live. The more cities that pass favorable ordinances, the easier it should be for others as there is precedent being made. Aurora has a population of 285,000 residents and is Colorado's second largest city. Tom Patterson :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 07:59:25 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rick Green Subject: strange uses for beeswax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do a farmer's market and get requests for beeswax, and over the years I have heard some pretty strange uses for beeswax such as to lubricate "snow ssnakes" and to grow mushrooms! Has anyone heard of strange uses. I will gladly trade my info for yours. It helps to keep the conversation going.... Rick Green 8 Hickory Grove Lane Ballston Lake, NY 12019 (518) 384-2539 gothoney@aol.com honeyetc.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 06:34:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: smoker fuels In-Reply-To: <1d3.8f2a196.2be73951@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Sir, I would like to use pine punk. But just what part of the tree is pine >punk? HML The part with purple hair and a nose ring. Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 10:26:21 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Top Entrance Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Having now seen Glenn's photos of this new 'top entrance device' (for which I thank him) I have questions and comments... I am not sure who asked this (it may have been Jim)... > c) Is the entrance somehow expandable to full hive-width? The entrance is already 2.5x what the bees normally adopt in the wild, why would you want anything larger? I have seen a swarm issue from one single 10 mm diameter hole... and it did not take many seconds :-) > and if I get robbing through the entrance into the hive top feeder. I reckon this is a considerable risk, but let us wait for some feedback after the device has been tested. I have used bee spaces around the inside edges of complete hive boxes in exactly the same fashion as they are disposed in this 'new' device, I can report that the bees use such spaces for transit purposes, however after about ten years in use the labyrinth passages attract waxmoth, otherwise they stay clear of wax and propolis. Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 20:45:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Illustrated Tracheal Dissection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone an URL for an illustrated site with dissection for tracheal mite detection shown? I searched but could not find one. I'd have though that there must be such a site, somewhere. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 09:49:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: strange uses for beeswax Mine's for reloading ammo. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 16:18:49 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: thone Organization: Alcatel Telecom Subject: Re: strange uses for beeswax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rick Green wrote: > > Has anyone heard of strange uses. Visit http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l and search for beeswax of beewax. This topic has been treated 10 years ago ... cheers, Hugo (half a bee with good memory) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 10:35:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: yoonytoons Subject: Re: strange uses for beeswax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Last year two hunter/trappers wanted to buy some wax to “camouflage” the smell in the traps that had caught bobcats and the like. [Possibly bobcats are the most skittish, sneaky, and elusive of them all, in my experience: they outsmart your average dogs and take whatever fowl they want, intermittently] Don’t know exactly how they recoat the metal-trap with hot-wax, but they were glad to get some [mostly slum-gum] from me free. Yoon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 13:05:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: smoker fuels MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Punk is simply partially rotted wood, just soft enough to break apart with your hands. If you find a partially rotted log, you'll often find a shell of harder, less rotted material on the outside, and softer, "punkier" material inside. I like to collect a mix of it, since the damper, softer stuff helps hold the fire, as do some of the harder outer portions, like knots, which rot slower. If it's too damp to light, simply spread it in the sun for a half hour or so, and then put it in a bucket. It only takes minutes to fill a five gallon bucket, and it's a good reason to take a walk in the woods. Happy Punking. Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 16:41:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: strange uses for beeswax In-Reply-To: <3EB672C9.6BD200A8@se.bel.alcatel.be> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 04:18 PM 5/5/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Rick Green wrote: > > > > Has anyone heard of strange uses. I sold beeswax to a metal worker. He refinished antique autos. To re-chrome the bumpers, he used a wooden paddle to spread the new metal. The beeswax prevented the chrome from sticking to the paddle. Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 16:36:43 -0400 Reply-To: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: wade Organization: Honey Hill Farm Subject: Re: strange uses for beeswax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Has anyone heard of strange uses for beeswax? Beeswax is used to wax bowstrings for use in archery. Wade -- Web Site: http://www.honeyhillfarm.com E-mail: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 17:29:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Disease free swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I lost a swarm a day or 2 ago - there were eggs when I looked yesterday. She was one of the queens I had intended to breed from this year so there is a good swarm around somewhere, but not in the bait hive I had left in the area. Anyway her hive is now 5 nucs, each with a sealed cell plus a mini nuc in my shed. I take swarms and enjoy doing so. Occasionally I charge (£30) when the householder looks as if he can afford it, but usually I do it for fun. If I don't know the source I usually (beekeepers do nothing invariably) hive the swarm in an out apiary for a period of quarantine before letting them near one of my established apiaries. Recommended practice (don't do as I do, do as I tell you) is to hive the swarm in a cardboard box and let them draw comb for a couple of days to use up the possibly contaminated stores they have in their sacs. Then hive them on foundation and feed syrup. Burn the box and wax. That should get rid of most disease. It has occurred to me, but I have not tried it, that it would be a good idea to remove and destroy the first comb of sealed brood. The reason for this is that the swarm will have left most varroa mites behind. The few they have brought with them will be desperate to breed and will occupy the first available brood. Of course all this will weaken the swarm and so it may not be worth while unless you treat several the same way and combine them. Having said all this, I have been taking swarms for a quarter of a century this year and have yet to find any resulting disease. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 17:48:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rick Green Subject: Re: strange uses for beeswax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit snow snakes is a game that NY State indians play in the winter to send a weighted stick along a ice grove, shitakie mushrooms are grown in oak started in wooden dowels in which the innoculum is sealed by bees wax Rick Green 8 Hickory Grove Lane Ballston Lake, NY 12019 (518) 384-2539 gothoney@aol.com honeyetc.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 18:00:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Miller Subject: Re: strange uses for beeswax I sold honey to someone that wanted wax for some of his metal work. I think he mentioned cooling down stuff after welding. Fine Homebuilding magazine mentioned something, they coated tools with a plastic after they were sharpened. Beeswax might do the same. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 18:48:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: beekeeper Organization: none Subject: Re: smoker fuels MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I don't know how many hives everyone is working but I got tired of collecting smoker fuel so I started buying pine hamster bedding. It is dry and easy to start and once going the smoker can be packed tightly without extinguishing the fire. There sufficient air between the small chips to keep it smoldering enough that a couple pumps with the bellows gets it off and running again. Coleene P.S. It does cause a lot of creosote build up in the smoker though! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 15:28:37 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rossander Subject: Re: strange uses for beeswax In-Reply-To: <164.1fd49211.2be8361a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As a glassblower (lab tech for a university physics department), I used beeswax to lubricate my shaping tools while the hot piece of glassware was on the lathe. Mike Rossander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 15:32:12 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Hensler Subject: Re: strange uses for beeswax > Has anyone heard of strange uses for beeswax? I don't know if it could be considered a strange use or not, but beeswax has been used for thousands of years in the lost wax method of casting sculptures. Skip Skip & Christy Hensler THE ROCK GARDEN Newport, WA http://www.povn.com/rock/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 18:44:04 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Tooley Subject: Re: strange uses for beeswax In-Reply-To: <19a.146d2937.2be7ac1d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I was cutting timber,I mixed it with bear grease(had to shoot a bear first) for cork boot grease, and also used beeswax to lube the grinder stone I sharpened my saw chain with. ---Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 22:55:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Flabberghasted (and steamed) over carpenter bee article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Bee Listers: This article on carpenter bees was published Sunday Monring in a number of Media General Newspapers. It is by the gardening columnist David Bare of the Winston-Salem Journal, where he tells of his war with carpenter bees with tennis racquet and poisons: http://journalnow.com/wsj/living/home/bare/MGBFRZ8EOED.html I wrote him the e-mail that follows, and I hope others will do so as well, perhaps also contacting the editors of the various newspapers to let them know there is another side to the story..... ********************************************************************* Dfelder@wsjournal.com Flabberghasted (and steamed!) by your Carpenter Bee Article! Dear Mr. Bare: As a retired commercial beekeeper, who specialized in pollination service, I have often been dismayed to find that people will vandalize beehives placed in vegetable fields and orchards to pollinate them. Hives shot to pieces, deliberately run over, or left as a pile of ashes testify to the monumental ignorance of those who will bite the hand that feeds them. But you have done the same with carpenter bees. You have clearly illustrated the crux of the modern environmental problem by your article on carpenter bees. The problem is centered in an attitude. Why must we impulsively destroy, without attempting to understand, that which we fear? You made me wish I could give you many good whacks with your tennis racquet. Unfortunately your article undermines your credentials as a gardener and environmentalist (who seems to have no notion of the environmental problem of loss of pollinators), and as a journalist (whose bias and superficial research did not make any attempt to show the other side of the story). In areas, where honeybees are now absent, the carpenter bee has become the primary pollinator of many spring blossoms that feed wildlife and humans. I have seen them on every kind of fruit blossom that grows in the southeast. I have been in orchards, where, until honeybees were brought in, carpenter bees were the ONLY bees to be found on the blossoms. I expect your attitude from pest control operators who stand to make a lot of money from a gullible public on an easy job. But I am incredulous to hear such statements from a gardening specialist, who also is supposedly a journalist. You say, they do "considerable damage" from repeated colonization. PROVE IT! I challenge you to show me any damage that is more than superficial and cosmetic, from carpenter bees that have been left alone to do their thing. I have lived with carpenter bees for many decades, and seen them reuse the same nest year after year, with no serious damage. The only time I've ever seen extensive damage was in cases where humans poisoned or plugged the nest sites, forcing them to repeatedly drill new ones. If there is a case where wood is so valuable as to really require protection, some aluminum or vinyl flashing, or screening can be applied to vulnerable places. But, as is done in some areas of the world, where their value is realized, and people are smarter, SOME places should be left where they CAN nest. YOU have instead declared an all-out war against a very valuable environmental resource! NOT ONCE did you ever mention their considerable value as pollinators! Carpenter bees should be protected by law, as are bumblebees and hornets in Europe, because they are precious, and endangered by human paranoia. You say they are aggressive. That is nonsense, unless you refer to a drone chasing off another drone. The drones will investigate any motion in their territory. Yes, they will get "in your face" but will only look you over. You can dance with them, as they tend to mirror your movements. But they are only checking to see if you are sexy. Sometimes they will chase birds, dragonflies, etc, and try to mate. I once saw a pair of wrens attempt to build a nest, while being harrassed by a sex-crazed drone, who would hover in front of them while they would scold him, then chase them as soon as they flew again. It was hilarious! I challenge you to redeem your credentials by another article with the "other side of the story" of these gentle, though buffoonish, giant pollinators. Required reading to start research for the "other side of the story:" 1. The Forgotten Pollinators, by Steve Buchmann and Gary Nabhan 2. The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com (by yours truly) 3. McGregor's Pollination "Bible" USDA (old but still valuable), online at: http://www.beeculture.com/beeculture/book/ 4. Pollination: The Forgotten Agricultural Input Dr. Malcolm Sanford: http://apis.ifas.ufl.edu/papers/altpol.htm Dave Green SC USA Retired Pollination Beekeeper Carpenter Bee, a Major Pollinator: http://www.pollinator.com/gallery/April/carp_privet.htm :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 00:02:54 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: strange uses for beeswax I used to have fun with beeswax back when 35mm slides were used for presentation graphics. With a little care and some tweezers, one can apply a thin strip of clear adhesive tape to align with the "theoretical results curve" on a slide of a graph. One can then use the tweezers to apply individual metal filings as "experimental data points" to the slide, using melted beeswax as the "glue". Since slides in slide projectors are always upside down, the slide drops in front of the lamp, and one has at least 20 seconds to get well into the explanation of the experimental results before the wax starts to melt. The wax melts, the metal filings slide slowly downward on the slide until they run into the adhesive tape, which results in the "experimental results" data points moving up to exactly meet the theoretical curve while you calmly continue speaking, of course never glancing back at the slide yourself. It may seem a "lame" joke now, but it was a real knee-slapper back in 1979. I also dip the "ears" of new frames into beeswax, and paint my Stroller spacers and frame rests with a fine coat of melted beeswax with a small paintbrush to keep the frames from getting propolized. More tedious than labor-intensive, but the coatings last for several years. As a result, I can shuffle through brood chambers almost as fast as a Las Vegas blackjack dealer, so the time invested pays back very quickly, and when time is most scarce. When my sons were young, I would make them awards for meritorius conduct that looked like imperial decrees from the Duchy of Grand Fenwick, affixing varying wax seals and ribbons using nothing more than some dyed wax and jar lids of various sizes. Silly yes, but their doting father would also mat, frame, and hang their art class creations in the hallway "art gallery" rather than taping them to the fridge. Much less "strange", we never stopped using beeswax to polish our furniture and woodwork. Fine old wood deserves the extra work, but it is lots of extra work. I sell the bulk of my wax in cakes to furniture craftsmen, as a true hand-rubbed finish looks better. They pay well, and they are not so picky about minor discoloration. Much better money than any "wax for foundation" trade-in program, and they pay less than they would pay to a woodworking supply company for beeswax cakes. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 06:49:01 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Disease free swarms ----- Original Message ----- From: It has occurred to me, but I have not tried it, that it would be a good idea to remove and destroy the first comb of sealed brood. The reason for this is that the swarm will have left most varroa mites behind. The few they have brought with them will be desperate to breed and will occupy the first available brood. You could hive the bees on foundation and then treat immediately. That way the mites will still be on the bees, not sealed in cells, and thymol or oxalic acid will work very well. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 13:46:52 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Vs: Re: [BEE-L] Disease free swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > It has occurred to me, but I have not tried it, that it would be a good idea > to remove and destroy the first comb of sealed brood. The reason for this is > that the swarm will have left most varroa mites behind. The few they have > brought with them will be desperate to breed and will occupy the first > available brood. > > You could hive the bees on foundation and then treat immediately. That way > the mites will still be on the bees, not sealed in cells, and thymol or > oxalic acid will work very well. A new swarm on foundation is a good time to treat for varroa. But I have always recommended that the treatment shoud be done after about 4 - 6 days, when the queen has started to lay eggs. The mites are still on bees. They go to brood about 1 - 2 days before capping. Some swarms don't enjoy to be treated the first day in a new home, and decide to try find an apartment with better odour. Ari Ari Seppälä MMM Project Manager Finnish Beekeepers' Association komppa-seppala@co.inet.fi www.hunaja.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 11:59:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Smart, Billy Y" Subject: Re: strange uses for beeswax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I ran a trap line as a youngster. As I recall, beeswax was used to both protect the iron trap from rusting and to act as a lubricant to speed up the tripping mechanism. The traps were placed in a boiling tub of water with beeswax and as the traps were lifted out they would be coated with the wax. To my knowledge it was never ment to camouflage any smell. Billy Smart Rock, KS Last year two hunter/trappers wanted to buy some wax to "camouflage" the smell in the traps that had caught bobcats and the like. Yoon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 21:17:16 -0400 Reply-To: lhhubbell@johnstown.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Leland Hubbell Organization: Tekoa Subject: Strange uses for beeswax. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We once had someone wanting bees wax for repair of something in their accordion. Leland Hubbell, Central Ohio :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 21:34:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Free Bee-Removal like a Free Lunch???? In real life I am a landscape contractor, and today's job was to put an irrigation system and instant lawn in for a lady. She was talking to us as we worked, and I mentioned that I wanted to introduce her to a nurseryman who sells plants at the Farmer's Market where I sell my honey. After I finished and she paid me, I went home for lunch, and she called and said that 10 minutes after I left a swarm of bees landed right in the bushes where I was working. (I am not making this up). So, I went back, and sure enough, a swarm had landed there. As I and my son were carring in the hive and removal tools, I said that I had a psykic connection to bees, and that the knew I would be there. She was VERY silent for a while, and when I said that I was joking, she just gave a half-hearted laugh and didn't meet my eyes. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 21:22:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: BEE-L: Strange uses for beeswax. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > We once had someone wanting bees wax for repair of something in > their accordion. And I sold some for a digerie doo. Aaron Morris - whose digerie don't! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 20:45:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Strange uses for beeswax. In-Reply-To: <3EB85E9C.2060007@johnstown.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You can also use beeswax for plucking ducks. Charles Harper Carencro LA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 21:58:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rich Bruno Subject: Re: strange uses for beeswax I once had a person wanting beeswax for lubricating the cork on his bagpipe. Rich :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 22:27:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Re: Strange uses for beeswax. In-Reply-To: <3EB85E9C.2060007@johnstown.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT An elderly lady used to get beeswax from me to make a salve to treat her brother's butt. He was paralyzed from the waist down, and used to get very bad bedsores, which they could not cure at the University of Charleston Medical Center. She said beeswax was the only thing that worked to heal them up. She was a regular customer for several years. Both have since died. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 22:21:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Stores from hive with dysentery? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Howdy folks, I have the majority of two mediums of good (albeit somewhat = crystallized) honey from a hive that didn't fare well this last, long, = brutal winter. I noticed that this hive did *not* show good cleansing = flights on the few marginal flying days we had last winter, and = seemingly as a result, developed dysentery, and later failed. I noticed some splotching on these frames (although not a lot), and = began to wonder if it would be alright to feed these frames to either = nucs or established colonies? The hive was reasonably strong last fall, = so my suspicion is that this colony, which was obtained from a local = swarm of unknown parentage, was just not up to the winter we had. Is = there a simple way to check the frames for nosema infection? Thanks, Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 20:15:53 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Installing package bees into nucs indoors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I posted a photo essay, "installing package bees into nucs indoors" at http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ The direct URL is http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/pkgnucs.htm I suppose I'll support it with words later, but it should be self-explanatory. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 22:30:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Yoonytoons Subject: Re: Free Bee-Removal like a Free Lunch???? Superbees? When I returned home in the afternoon, my wife tells me someone with an unusual swarm just called me, the bee man in Shawnee, OK. The bloke works at the nearby Air Force base, about thirty-minute drive away. As he got out of his work, he saw a big swarm resting on his white van, covering the driver-side headlight and bumper! Scared, he gingerly got in, using the passenger-side door, and drove home, hoping the bees would just fly away. He then drove home doing at 70 mph on I-40 while observing at one point a good lump fall; however, about 500 or so bees were still hanging, tooth and nail, on the headlight and bumper when he got back home, hence the call. Come to find out the queen was missing, gone probably with the lump that got dumped in the bump. I did not bring any brood to lure the queenless swarm. Having watered them and flopped a good number of them down into my special swarm-retrieval box, filled with ten deep foundations, I left the box alone till sundown. They were all moving in and out of the box, frantically searching for the missing Mother Superior till finally they decided to settle, painfully slow, into the box at dusk. I combined these extra bees with another colony. The man said while he was driving home other motorists would gesture him in an attempt to say something about this gob of bees hanging on his van as he was driving along the Interstate at 70 mph! Go figure. Yoon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 10:41:43 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: thone Organization: Alcatel Telecom Subject: Re: Strange uses for beeswax. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charles Harper wrote: > > You can also use beeswax for plucking ducks. > How the hell do pluck ducks with beeswax ? cheers, Hugo (half a bee with little imagination) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 09:11:55 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: jan tempelman Organization: home sweet home Subject: Re: strange uses for beeswax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rick Green wrote: > I will gladly trade my info for yours. i m a goldsmith i have ironplates with (±40) holes who alway getting a 0,1 mm smaller Holes can have at the end al kind of shape (round , square, ect) i tow gold/silber wire through it , to get it smaller as lubricate i use beewax -- Met vriendelijke groet, Jan Jan Tempelman Annie Romein-Verschoorpad 2-4 NL 4103 VE Culemborg tel.:0345-524433 mobile: 06 10719917 -- house building dairy on: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/bouwdagboek.html http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 08:02:38 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Alan Riach Subject: Strange uses of Beeswax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our local association was approached by the Scottish ancient document conservatores in Edinburgh for beeswax and propolis with which to repair the wax seals on historical documents. In return we had a most interesting visit to their premises looking over their work and some of the old documents (including the Declaration of Arbroath -dated 6th April 1320, some of the ideas from which were used to form the American declaration of Independence) New Statutes (Laws) in UK (Now also Scotland) don't officially become law until they are sealed (unfortuneately nowadays with Gutta-percha rubber -which deteriorates much faster than the old Beeswax/Propolis seals. I believe Health and Safety fears about working with hot wax steered the modern civil servants away from beeswax, but we're still lobbying. Alan Riach Edinburgh :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 07:47:56 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Stores from hive with dysentery? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Only by using a microscope X400, Take a sample of the splothches. add some water and place a drop on a slide and cover with a cover glass. If you don't have a microscope your local secondary school probably does. Ruary Rudd ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd" Subject: [BEE-L] Stores from hive with dysentery? Is there a simple way to check the frames for nosema infection? Thanks, Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 21:18:12 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: steve noble Subject: Re: Stores from hive with dysentery? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Todd said: "The hive was reasonably strong last fall, so my suspicion is that this colony, which was obtained from a local swarm of unknown parentage, was just not up to the winter we had. Is there a simple way to check the frames for nosema infection?" Todd, did you treat this colony for Nosema going into the winter? I have been going with local advise that tells me you have to treat for Nosema every fall. Fumadil-B in the last gallon of feed before winter. What say you all? Steve Noble Whidbey Island, Washington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 09:20:12 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: jan tempelman Organization: home sweet home Subject: Re: Illustrated Tracheal Dissection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit allen dick wrote: >site with dissection for tracheal > mite detection shown? http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/Acariose.html -- Met vriendelijke groet, Jan Jan Tempelman Annie Romein-Verschoorpad 2-4 NL 4103 VE Culemborg tel.:0345-524433 mobile: 06 10719917 -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 06:45:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Free Bee-Removal like a Free Lunch???? In-Reply-To: <200305070134.h471UlaX013011@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > > As I and my son were carring in >the hive and removal tools, I said that I had a psykic connection to bees, >and that the knew I would be there. She was VERY silent for a while, and >when I said that I was joking, she just gave a half-hearted laugh and >didn't meet my eyes. I used to produce maple syrup, and sold it to health food stores. While making a delivery in Port Jefferson, NY, almost 30 years ago, I was talking to a "hippie" type guy much resembling Jerry Garcia. Somehow the subject got on bees and how wonderful they were. At that moment, a honeybee flew in between us, checking out the situation. I held out my finger, and she landed on it. "Jerry's" eyes opened to their max. "Whoa man...too much." Obviously it was, for he walked away muttering "far out", and shaking his head as if he had seen a ghost...or God. Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 06:11:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Strange uses for beeswax. In-Reply-To: <3EB8C6C7.A0D077EE@se.bel.alcatel.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dip duck in liquid beeswax let cool then pull feathers off Charles Harper thone wrote: > How the hell do pluck ducks with beeswax ? > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 08:18:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Stores from hive with dysentery? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Todd wrote: > I have the majority of two mediums of good (albeit somewhat > crystallized) honey from a hive that didn't fare well this last, > long, brutal winter. Partially crystallized honey can cause dysentery for overwintering colonies. The kind of honey bees take into the winter in very cold climates can weaken them considerably. Lots of info on this in the archives. You can feed bees crystallized honey, since you do not see the losses, in spring and summer. But it is not harmless. One reason is that it does not liquefy at once so can have a high moisture content in the partly liquefied honey and ferment. I think the Hive and Honey Bee has info about this. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 12:49:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Janet Montgomery Subject: Re: Strange uses for beeswax. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT If you put the beeswax in a tub of boiling water, then dip the duck/ goose into the mix , slowly withdraw the fowl. The wax enters the feathers and down and solidifies. They then can be removed in large sections, right down to the skin. Some of the wax can be reclaimed. Dan Veilleux In the mountains of NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 14:07:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Vital Gaudreau Subject: Re: Stores from hive with dysentery? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Bill Truesdell wrote: >Partially crystallized honey can cause dysentery for overwintering colonies. The kind of honey bees take into the winter in very cold climates can weaken them considerably.< Thank you Bill for your very interesting comments. Would you say when one sees the obvious signs of dysentery on the outside of the hive at the end of wintering, chances are good that if you examine that hive contain, you'll find crystallized "food" (syrup or honey) in most cases (not to say in all cases) ? and, the remaining liquid part in the crystallized cells that might have fermented is in fact what is causing the dysentery when consumed by the wintered bees therefore making the bees sick and so weak that the hive may consequently die during the early spring period. HFCS fed in the fall has a bad reputation to crystallize in the combs... Do you share this view? Comments from the list are welcome. Tks. Vital Gaudreau Sainte-Therese, Quebec Your comments _________________________________________________________________ MSN Search, le moteur de recherche qui pense comme vous ! http://fr.ca.search.msn.com/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 16:39:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Stores from hive with dysentery? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry for not cutting more but it was nearly impossible. Vital Gaudreau wrote: > Would you say when one sees the obvious signs of dysentery on the > outside of the hive at the end of wintering, chances are good that if > you examine that hive contain, you'll find crystallized "food" (syrup > or honey) in most cases (not to say in all cases) ? Not necessarily. Overwintering stores have been discussed many times on this list. You can have honeydew, which can ferment and some honeydews are poisonous. Fall honey, usually aster and goldenrod, granulate quickly and are full of solids that get in the bees gut and must be voided in the winter (a double whammy). If there is no "January thaw", and there seldom is in Maine, then they will let go in the hive which will lead to more problems including dysentery. If you are near any pine woods, you may be a victim of honeydew. I know my bees bring it in during the fall flow. Bad stuff for bees. Great for people. > and, the remaining liquid part in the crystallized cells that might > have fermented is in fact what is causing the dysentery when consumed > by the wintered bees therefore making the bees sick and so weak that > the hive may consequently die during the early spring period. If that was the cause of the deaths then that is the mechanism. Could also have been any other thing I noted or something else. My guess is honeydew and fall honey. Fall honey in our area crystallizes by November. My bee's summer honeys will stay liquid for a year. I had one stay liquid for several years. > HFCS fed in the fall has a bad reputation to crystallize in the > combs... Do you share this view? First time I heard this. All I have read is that HFCS is second only to sucrose as the best overwintering feed. But I do not use either so maybe someone that does can comment. (I use George Imire and Tony Jadczak's method of having my bees overwinter on summer honey. The archives have the method.) Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 16:06:15 -0400 Reply-To: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: wade Organization: Honey Hill Farm Subject: Re: strange uses for beeswax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All Here is an another rather odd use for beeswax. Way back in the 20's and 30's electronic equipment used capacitors made of metal foil, paper insulation and beeswax. The beeswax gave the assembly integrity and sealed it against moisture. Antique radios usually contain a number of these beeswax capacitors. Such capacitors often did allow moisture penetration and eventually would fail. Some antique radio restorers still use beeswax in repairing old equipment. Wade -- Web Site: http://www.honeyhillfarm.com E-mail: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 19:04:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Leif Woodman Subject: Strange uses for beeswax. In-Reply-To: <5AF61A7A68D97645B968E3F6F7D069A1018448@email.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use rub beeswax on the threads of screws to lubricate them prior to screwing them into wood. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 16:28:06 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Nucs indoors Comments: To: The Victors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/pkgnucs.htm >What a great photo essay. It generated lots of thoughts > and a few questions last night as I slept. Didn't know if > I should post this to the list or not but if you feel it is > pertinent to list discussion feel free to send it on to the > membership. I actually don't know the answers to all those questions. The bees belong to my friends, the Meijers, and Joe took the pictures. This method is not yet widely practiced. A few people have experimented with it, and I'll have a report later. These nucs are normally used for outdoor wintering in the lower mainland of B.C. Climate there is like Washington state. In the meantime, > I assume that the nucs have a solid bottom like a standard ice cooler Yes. > and there is a small lake of food that the bees pick up and put in > the combs just as though they would do from a frame feeder. Right. > As they > store the syrup away they gain more room for the brood patch. They pick it all up within hours. > Is there pollen in the frames, or do you put a supplement in > there as well? The frames have pollen > It sounds like the queens will self release and start laying in a > couple of days. Yes. > How long do the nucs stay on the pallets inside the > store room and what temperature is it in the room? Until the outdoor weather is suitable for them and there is something for them to forage. The storage temperature is around room temperature, but it is not critical. Any conditions suitable for wintering would also be fine. Air change is important, though when you have that many bees in a small volume. > It looks like the way they are stacked there is plenty of ventilation. Yes, otherwise the moisture would make them miserable. The screen lids are replaced by a solid polystyrene lid when they are put outside. > How long can the bees go without a cleansing flight under > those conditions? A week or two. > By the time you move the bees out to the field what stage of > development are the larvae in? That depends on the year, and when they are installed. Usually there is not much brood in package bees for several days after installing. I'll have more later, and maybe a magazine article. Now that I am retired, I'll have time to write again. Selling out has been hectic, but, yes, it is official, I am down to 117 hives! allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 20:34:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Wayne F. Young" Subject: Queen bee Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi All, Can anyone explain how and why a Queen bee can produce a strange sound which seems to come from her mouth? Two days ago I was in the process of introducing a new Queen to a colony.While in the process I released the Queen,and some workers started to attack her.At this point I rescued her,and she apparently was shook up,and started making this sound. I held her in my fist while retrieving the Queen cage while she kept making this sound until I placed her back into her cage.At this point she quieted down. Today I released her again with the use of some sugar water,and she remained quiet while not being attacked by workers. It seems that she made the sound because of being frightened. I have never seen this before,and wonder how often this might happen. Wayne in Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 20:31:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Nanos Subject: Howto replace Africanized bees w/ new package I had 2 hives of Italians. One was later Africanized & wiped out the other hive. I can't get into the remaining hive to kill & replace the queen. Just too aggressive. Last time I tried opening the hive was not a pleasant experience. How can I get rid of the queen, preserve as many workers/brood/honey, & repopulate with a package & new queen without destroying the current brood or poisoning the comb & honey stores? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 21:33:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: Stores from hive with dysentery? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all for the input. This thread has clarified a few things this year. The two hives I lost last winter were both heavy with fall honey, and I noticed that the proportion of aster was very high last fall - it crystallized before I could extract some of it. I also live next to several hundred acres of white pine, which may have complicated matters, and there was no real thaw in our neck of the woods. Wonderful fall honey, though - dark and malty. This probably explains why both hives also showed classic starvation symptoms, but were right next to unopened honey. I'm assuming that the bees can't process the crystallized honey without water, which would be in short supply in January in Vermont. Live and learn. Thanks, Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 20:01:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Stores from hive with dysentery? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Although crystalized honey is usually not an ideal winter feed, in my experience, bees often do winter well on solid stores. There are a number of factors that will determine how well they do. The first, as always, is how good the clony is in the first place, and how well-established they are in their home. The temperature range inside the hive during wintering can play a role too. Warmth makes honey softer, but too much continued warmth can increase consumption and result in dysentary or starvation, or both over the course of a winter. Then there is the question of the nature of the granulation. Soft granulation is usually not a problem, but we have encountered honey that could hardly be scraped with a hive tool, and, although I am not certain, I suspect that this is very difficult for bees to use, particularly during prolonged cold spells. The kind of honey that forms chunks of sugar along with a watery syrup in the same cells, must also be hard to utilise, and -- as mentioned -- there is always the risk of fermentation in such honey. As for moisture, I think that there must be as much water in hard granulation as in soft, but, in any case, water is needed to thin any honey that is consumed. Usually wintering bees have sufficient water from their metabolism, and nearby condensation, but in very cold, dry conditions, they could be in serious trouble on slabs of hard honey. The amount of solid matter and unusual sugars that can be in some honies can compound the problem. All this adds up to justification for recommending quality sugar syrup for winter stores when the alternative is a honey of unknown wintering quality or granualated stores. The easier we make things for the bees, the better chance they have of making it. Nonetheless, good honey -- if it is good honey -- is still a great winter feed. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::