From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:24:18 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-83.2 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB39B49042 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDAZe2011456 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0305C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 134660 Lines: 3033 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:36:03 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: A Chance to Promote Your Site on BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All I had to re-write this, when I saw Jim Fischer's offering. I run a website that is entirely hand coded, it has many pages (about 1300) some of these are a bit scruffy and some are incomplete. Written with speed of transmission in mind and attempting to cope with many browsers as well as many different screen resolutions. By virtue of my own experiance, it has a British Isles beekeeping flavour, but I hope it contains adequate disclaimers as to differences in other parts of the world. It's URL is long and non descriptive, but in keeping with beekeeping practice it is cheap... (Zero Cost). The link is in the signature. As a final note to would-be website writers... Before you spend any money on a software application for writing pages, please consider that it takes as long (or longer) to learn how to use the software as it does to learn how to write the code properly for yourself. Your hand coded pages will run about ten times faster than software generated ones, they occupy much less webspace and consume much less bandwidth. Thanks! to BEE-L for providing this soapbox. Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:43:44 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ross Langlands Subject: Supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Experts seem evenly divided about where to add supers. Some say that new supers should be added underneath the super the bees have been working on and this stimulates the bees to draw out foundation etc on the new super. Some say that the new super should be added on top because it makes little difference and it is much easier to inspect their progress. Any thoughts? Ross Langlands - ********************************************************************** The information contained in this message may be confidential or legally privileged and is intended for the addressee only, If you have received this message in error or there are any problems please notify the originator immediately. The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. ********************************************************************** :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 01:47:37 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Ultra Filtration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A letter from the NHB, regarding ultrafiltration. http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/ultra.htm allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 22:39:57 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Bumblebee In-Reply-To: <200305112128.h4BLSraV022120@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200305112128.h4BLSraV022120@listserv.albany.edu>, Richard Goetze writes >But, I have never seen any attached mites on >Queens I've inspected. In early spring, when bumblebees are looking for a nesting place, it is common to see them resting, covered in mites. People tell me how worried they are that the bee will not survive with so many mites. I tell them no, they are just carrying them to their new nest and they will soon get off. I suspect that the losses of bumblebees in the hard time they have finding nests is attributed incorrectly to the mites. I am also often asked if they are varroa and tell them no. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:15:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 11 May 2003 to 12 May 2003 (#2003-133) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good Morning All - A little help if you can. We are in search of a good black and white line drawing of a queen bee (copyright free please) that we can use for a graphic for our local association. I have surfed the web with moderate results. I would really like to find a good one. Does anyone know of one on the web that we could "borrow?" Thanks for your help. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 19:50:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Milt Lathan Subject: Can slugs cause swarming? Odd question, I know - but I have a hive that has just thrown off its Third AFTER-swarm! Caught the primary swarm, a big one, Friday before last, went through the hive and obviously missed swarm cells 'cause on Saturday the landowner emailed me that there were two swarms in front of the hives. Monday I hived the larger one in a nuc box onsite and took the little bunch to their new (temporary) home on my front porch. Today, another little swarm formed on a wind-vane I keep near the hives in North Bend, WA. Too me this is unusual behavior. It is now very easy to go through the brood chambers because there are so few bees left there. There is no uncapped brood left. I did find a very small possible supercedure cell but it doesn't look recently uncapped but other than that there were 6 - 7 little slugs on the walls of the bottom box. I had a hive of Russian-hybrid bees that attacked slugs but these otherwise hygenic Italians seem to say live and let live. The second hive of the pair is building up nicely, I gave both hives a super of drawn comb for expansion the day of the 1st swarm. Both hives wintered well with menthol overhead and screened bottoms below. I figure all I can do is combine the 2nd swarm with the remaining bees. For now I've reduced the entrance or they are bound to get robbed-out. Is this just a bad case of swarming fever or could something be making them want to abscond? Thanks. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:10:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: A Chance to Promote Your Site on BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My site is under construction. The URL is http://www.kathycox.frankcox.net I hope to have some pictures, including the big Sebastopol newspaper report on the swarms on Main Street, and information and links on it in the next week or so. Thanks, Allen, I'm looking forward to seeing the sites that this list recommends. Kathy Cox :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:19:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Simoneau_Andr=E9_=28DRMONTR=29_=28L=27Assomption=29?= Subject: Phenol in honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello everyone, We regularly find phenol in a certain percentage of sample of pure natural honey. Would anyone have any idea of what could be the source of this phenol present in honey? Last test I saw reveals concentration of 0,02 to 0,09 mg/kg.One sample had 0,22 ppm. What could be the source of this phenol? Smoke, desinfectant, pine tree, thyme? Docteur André Simoneau Médecin vétérinaire régional Montréal-Laval-Lanaudière MAPAQ-CQIASA Laboratoire de pathologie animale 867, boulevard L'Ange-Gardien L'Assomption, Québec Canada J5W 4M9 Téléphone: 450-589-5745 poste 275 Télécopie: 450-589-0648 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:40:50 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Ultra Filtration and "Water" is not just "water" Peter Bray knows his biochem, and pointed out something that I neglected to explain clearly: > In fact water is not just water. Today isotope ratio analysis is > starting to have immense impacts in all facets of food industries. > Here in New Zealand it has been successfully used to determine that > water was added unlawfully to wine. Many people have heard about "isotope ratio tests" being done on honey before, but what Peter mentioned is NOT the (perhaps) better-known "carbon isotope ratio" test, which is good for finding HFCS or other sugars that have been added to honey. I'll try to explain both tests in plain English, since I can see a need to create a formal definition for honey that is based upon the tests that all agree can be used to detect adulteration. (Yes, this implies that the "definition" becomes subject to change with each new generation of test equipment, but it would be better than what we have now, which is no formal definition at all.) The CARBON isotope ratio test: exploits the fact that honey comes from plant nectar. Plants use photosynthesis, and the overwhelming majority of nectar-producing plants use "C3" type photosynthesis. As luck would have it, both sugar and corn plants use only "C4" photosynthesis. I'm not going to bore everyone with a long-winded description of the differences between "C3" and "C4", as the whole process of photosynthesis and the "Calvin cycle" is very complex. Just accept that the two processes that metabolize sun, CO2 and water are very different, and produce very different mixes of carbon isotopes. Because the two processes are different, one can look at values that (for nectar-based sugars, like honey) range from "20 to 30", but for non-nectar-based sugars, range from "10 to 16". Since there is no overlap in the results of testing the output of "C3" and "C4" plants, a mix of the two (honey and HFCS, for example) can be detected with very high accuracy, since "mixing" does not create a true "even mix". Now, some producers, notably China, have taken issue with tests like the carbon isotope test, claiming that the plants that produce nectar in their ecosystems are somehow "different" from the rest of the planet, and therefore produce different profiles and ratios. (Yeah, right. Howcome they never send us any plants to test?) But look out con artists - here comes the WATER isotope ratio test, which is impossible to argue or handwave away: It is even more subtle, and has not been around very long. It depends upon the fact that evaporation of water in plants takes place through "transpiration" via leaves and fruit. The water component of fruit juices and nectar is higher in Hydrogen and Oxygen-18 than the water drawn in by the roots. ("O-18 is an isotope of oxygen, the 3 major isotopes of dissolved oxygen are "O-16", "O-17", and "O-18"). Plants really do make "special" water. It would be really tough and expensive to try and counterfeit this isotope ratio for adulteration purposes. There is very little difference between one plant and another in the method of transpiration of water, so the water isotope test is not subject to much variation due to plant species, and is therefore not subject to argument about "my plants" versus "your plants". So, if someone claims that orange juice "from concentrate" is really "fresh-squeezed", you can test the isotopes of the water, and easily prove that the water in the juice came from a water-treatment plant rather than from a leaf-bearing plant. Even if they use distilled water, it would stick out like a sore thumb. So, if someone uses the "ultra-filtration" method, we can clearly detect that the honey contains water from non-plant sources. Since there is no scenario where anyone would deliberately add water to honey in any legitimate honey-processing, any "non-plant" water would be a dead give-away. The water isotope test cannot be argued away, since water all over the planet has well-known isotopes, defined by the various "meteoric water lines", none of which are even close to the ratios you get from any plant source. And if someone tries to play the "water in wine" trick, you can nail them, too. (We have no samples to test the "water INTO wine" trick, but no one has demonstrated the process for several thousand years.) jim (who, after all that, needs a drink) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:44:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: Can slugs cause swarming? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Milt, Around my neck of the woods (Vermont), slugs always indicate high moisture levels. Three possibilites jumped to mind: 1) Is it possible that this hive is located somewhere too damp? 2) Is there excessive vegetation around the hive keeping it damp? 3) Have you tried elevating the hive a bit, to get it away from the damp ground? It would seem that anywhere that slugs are happy, bees would not be. Just thinking aloud. Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:07:52 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: Phenol in honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bonjour Andre: I have, on a few occasions, seen a drop of tar fall from the smoker into the hive being smoked. The tar from incomplete combustion of plant materials contains phenol, as well as a lot of other undesirable chemicals. Beekeepers should make an effort not to hold the smoker over the hive, but rather waft the smoke over the hive from the side or rear. Best regards Donald Aitken > We regularly find phenol in a certain percentage of sample of pure natural > honey. > Would anyone have any idea of what could be the source of this phenol > present in honey? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 13/05/2003 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 23:21:15 +0100 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Re: Ultra Filtration and "Water" is not just "water" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim, you mention that " both sugar and corn plants use only "C4" photosynthesis." Sugar beet is C3 (higher photosynthetic efficiency in dimmer climes!) as far as I am aware - correct me if I am wrong. European sugar(sucrose) is derived from this plant. Regards Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:22:27 +1200 Reply-To: peter@airborne.co.nz Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Bray Organization: Airborne Honey Ltd. Subject: Re: Phenol in honey In-Reply-To: <59C4FA4389E5D411AFE00002A51B9D89328096@LASS1-NTCOUP1.mapaq.gouv.qc.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Would anyone have any idea of what could be the source of this phenol > present in honey? > Last test I saw reveals concentration of 0,02 to 0,09 mg/kg.One sample had > 0,22 ppm. We have a similar situation in NZ. See the following abstract. Doesn't say what the source is, but does say it is natural. In this case samples were taken from wild hives, some of which were dug out of the ground (yes, in the honeydew area, Apis m, m are observed taking over old wasp nest holes in the ground). It was concluded that this is a natural source from somewhere in the environment. No samples were taken at the nectar level. Regards Peter Bray ______________________________ Beckh-G; Lullmann-C Phenol as a natural component in New Zealand honeydew honeys. OT: Phenol - ein naturlicher Bestandteil neuseelandischen Waldhonigs? Deutsche-Lebensmittel-Rundschau. 1998, 94: 5, 149-152; 19 ref. 1998 Many different phenolic substances are known as characteristic components of honey responsible for the honey-specific or source-specific flavour and taste. Phenol itself is generally considered as a residue of bee repellents. Maximum limits for phenol in honey are discussed between experts and the trade. In New Zealand honeydew honeys produced by the beech scale insect, Ultracoelostoma assimile on Nothofagus sp., phenol can be found at concentrations up to 0.2 ppm. Phenol in small amounts (<0.2 ppm) should be considered as a natural component of this type of honey. The origin of phenols in honeys are discussed. DE: honeydew-; secretions-; honey-; phenolic- compounds; chemical-composition; animal-physiology; forest-trees; agricultural-entomology OD: Nothofagus-; Margarodidae-; arthropods- GE: New- Zealand ID: Ultracoelostoma-assimile; Ultracoelostoma BT: Fagaceae; Fagales; dicotyledons; angiosperms; Spermatophyta; plants; Coccoidea; Sternorrhyncha; Homoptera; Hemiptera; insects; arthropods; invertebrates; animals; Australasia; Oceania; Commonwealth-of-Nations; Developed-Countries; OECD- Countries; Margarodidae CC: KK100; QQ070 CD: Forestry-General; Other-Produce PT: Journal-article IS: 0012-0413 UD: 990116 _________________________________________________________ Airborne Honey Ltd., Pennington St, PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 http://www.airborne.co.nz peter@airborne.co.nz :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 23:22:35 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Phenol in honey So what thoughts on liquid smoke? Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Aitken" > I have, on a few occasions, seen a drop of tar fall from the smoker into the > hive being smoked :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 23:04:31 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Pamela Fisher Subject: Re: pheremone baited swarm traps Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have had good luck this year with my first swarm box baited with a pheremone lure. I used a nuc box and put 2 frames of drawn comb and three of foundation inside with the lure. I painted the box brown to match the limbs of my holly tree and mounted it in the tree about 10 feet off of the ground. I was careful to make sure that the box did not get the afternoon sun, as I've read several places that bees will leave a swarm box that is in the sun (don't know if it's true or not). It took about three weeks, but I did get a swarm and I was fortunate to witness the actual move-in. Quite an experience to see and hear thousands of bees moving across the sky into a tree. I love free bees! Pam Any of you use swarm traps with pheremone lures to catch swarms? I was curious how you go about do this and how your luck has run. Grant Jackson, MO --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 21:05:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Hive in hollow oak MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received the following e-mail via my web site .. any good ideas on this ? "Any suggestions on how to lure some wild honey bees into a box hive? Got a hive in a hollow oak in my back yard. Built a small USDA Double three frame brood hive with top bars and would like to lure the bees in before I have to cut the tree down." Al Needham The BeeHive www.xensei.com/users/alwine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 21:29:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Sugar-Water Spray MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've dabbled a bit with using sugar-water in a pump sprayer rather than = a smoker. Of the few times I've used it (Obviously, it's best used in = warmer temps), it seems to work well to keep bees calm and manageable. = Does anyone else have any thoughts? Regards, Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 22:23:32 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Phenol in honey In addition to New Zealand, some guys in Korea seem to have nectar plants that result in detectable levels of phenol in honey. http://ift.confex.com/ift/2002/techprogram/paper_14409.htm There are lots of references that indicate that any detectable phenol is considered "contamination" by honey importing countries, so I wonder what would happen to honestly UNcontaminated honey from New Zealand (or, apparently, Korea) when tested for "phenol residue". But does anyone, anywhere still use carbolic/phenol to move bees out of supers? I thought that even the last of the die-hards stopped using carbolic back in the 1980s. Canada's CFIA seems to think that phenol at 0.020 parts per million (20 parts per billion) is cause for concern, but they also said as recently as Summer 2002, in http://www.agr.gov.sk.ca/docs/reports/beelines/BLsummer02.pdf "At such low levels, some residues could be found even when products have not been used in years." Which forces a reasonable person to wonder just what they think they are "detecting". Could Canada also have nectar plants that produce "natural phenol" in honey? I dunno what sort of hardware or test procedures they use, but the statement may be a bad quote, or taken out of context. As is, it just makes no sense. They go on to say: "For this reason, maximum residue levels should be established for oxytetracycline and some other chemicals that have been used in the beekeeping industry to insure that safe levels are not deemed to be hazardous and impact a beekeeper's operations." This is a real head-scratcher. Maybe it is a real knee-slapper. They are "detecting" things like Tetracycline, Oxytetracycline, and Chlortetcycline, and they think that they are detecting "residues" from use in the PAST? I'd sure like to hear about the mechanism or process by which this could happen, as it should be clear that, unlike phenol, there is no possible "natural" source of these chemicals. So, this either: a) Would appear to force beekeepers to scrap woodenware dating from the 1970s and 1980s. b) Is evidence that Canada has perfected analysis techniques unknown to the general worldwide scientific community. c) Indicates that the analysis folks have a stash of really gooood stuff up at the lab, and need to stop "testing" it on their lunch hours. But phenol is very volatile, so it is hard to imagine honey being contaminated by "environmental pollution". Small amounts of airborne phenol would volatilize away in a day or two. In the soil, phenol would remain detectable for 2 to 6 days. In water, we are looking at 10 to 15 days, but it can be taken up and metabolized by creatures that live in the water. But maybe some folks still have and use phenol. Without naming names, can anyone confirm this? Also, what's the record for comb longevity in honey super applications? I've never tried to "go for the record", but I'd guess that anything approaching a decade would be very rare. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 04:11:50 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: National bee unit web site In-Reply-To: <363201c31b09$206d8590$7604c518@gollum> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am used to use the on-line varroa calculator from the National Bee Unit in GB. But it seems I can not reach their web site any longer. Does any gentleman from the UK know if the varroa calculator is still on the web ? Did the web site move to another address ? Hervé ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 23:01:46 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Ultra Filtration and "Water" is not just "water" Peter said: > Jim, you mention that " both sugar and corn plants use > only "C4" photosynthesis." > > Sugar beet is C3 Ooops! Sugar >>CANE<< plants are "C4". Yes, potato and sugar beet are clearly "C3", not "C4". But detecting beet sugar in honey is easy. One needs little more than a swiss army knife, like this one: http://www.4abnet.com/vicaltimeterknife.gif or, if you'd like, this one: http://www.4abnet.com/toolredb.gif What I'd look for is, in the following order: a) The ratio of fructose to glucose. Honey would be > 1.20. Less would be a dead give-away. (Use the refractometer blade on the knife, check the brix scale.) b) Deuterium isotopes (I'm too tired... go to the libarary, and look it up Use the magnifying lens to count the isotopes. Be patient... keep counting.) c) Gas chromatograph - beet sugar should peak "way out" towards the 40s. You don't even need HPLC/MS for this one. (The more expensive swiss army knives DO include an optional GC/MS attachment, and as you can see in the first photo above, even a digital display is provided on the knife handle, but you have to plug in your Palm Pilot to see the graphs.) jim (Who is feeling "beet", and needs to go to bed now) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 10:54:01 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: DRONE Excluder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi All No... I have not had a 'Senior Moment'... Drone Excluder is like a wire queen excluder, but has wider spaces between the wires which allows worker bees and queens to pass unhindered, but the drone's thoraces are too large to pass. Those of you that raise drones deliberately for insemination purposes can benefit by trapping the drones on the comb that they were hatched from. The method is described in John Atkinson's book 'Background to Bee Breeding'. The method requires framed grids made from 'drone excluder' to be fitted to the faces of the drone combs. So that the drones trapped behind the excluders are all of similar age and development. I am organising the manufacture of a batch of drone excluder for a breeding project at the Leicershire and Rutland BKA in the UK. The grid will have a gap width in the region of 5.2 mm (normal QE= 4.3 mm). The grids will be 421 mm x 441 mm and can be cut using a hacksaw or a Dremel cutter disc, to suit the size of frame that you are using. If any of you would like to take advantage of this production run... The quantity can be increased with a resulting cost saving for all concerned. The cost cannot be finalised until the batch size is known, but it is envisaged that it will be less than £10 ($16) per grid of the size stated and could be as low as £5 ($8) Obviously carriage costs would be additional. This is being organised on a non profit making basis, but time is short and if you require some of this material you should contact me quickly dave.cushman@lineone.net Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:56:59 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: National bee unit web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For Hervé & all > I am used to use the on-line varroa calculator from > the National Bee Unit in GB. The National Bee Unit's varroa model is alive and well... http://www.csl.gov.uk/prodserv/cons/bee/varroamodel/ Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 03:19:42 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Charles B. Cromer" Subject: Beekeeping site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, A bit ago, I wrote asking the opinion of the list about sending out my journal entries. I have decided to simply make a website journal and along with that make an attempt at consolidating all the beekeeping info out there into one centralized place. It is going to be a sight focused on the beginner beekeeper and the Panama City FL area. Below are some of the topics I will already have covered on this page. Anything relating to these topics that you would send me would be greatly appreciated. Also... do you see a topic not coverd that in your dream beekeepering website would have it covered? If so let me know what you think I should also include on this site. Local Content: Local Beekeepers Local Honey, Pollen, Wax suppliers Local Bee Suppliers (Queens, Nucs, Packages) Local Bee Equipment Suppliers Local Events Local Beekeepers websites Local Flows start/stop Local Beekeeping Schedules Local Organizations General Content: Journal Entries Tips/Tricks for various problems/situations (hive ventilation etc) Mailing lists Suppliers General Yearly Schedule Organizations Magazines/Periodicals/Newsletters Book Listings Useful Links How to pages (splits, combines, nucs, packages etc) Remember... any topic above that you have input on or info that would fit one of those subjects please feel free to send it to me.... let me hear from all you Panama City and those near by (say within an hour or two drive) about your info etc on the above subjects. Charles ccdrogan@aol.com Panama City FL :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 07:30:26 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: A Chance to Promote Your Site on BEE-L http://www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ Website for the Stratford-upon-Avon Beekeepers' Association. Local information Monthly newsletter Links and resources page with over 400 links - checked regularly! Tricks and tips - trying to collect items that you don't find in the books. Aimed at primarily at UK, but includes other items and links that may be of interest. Nil budget! Free webspace and constructed using Word and Notepad. Now trying to add more pictures. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 00:57:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Karen Oland Subject: Re: pheremone baited swarm traps In-Reply-To: <20030515230431.24093.qmail@confucius.synacor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From Brushy Mtn catalog: Plastic Swarm Box This plastic swarm box is made from yellow or green corrugated plastic with a UV enhancer to protect against sun degradation. Metal handles, vent caps and a Velcro entrance flap are also included. It holds 4 Standard 9 1/8" frames and is light and easy to transport. Shipping large items is a tricky thing with the new UPS restrictions. 1 of these boxes will be assembled and go at a lesser shipping rate than if shipped flat. However two to 5 of these will ship flat in a box that will ship at a 30lb rate They also have the round, wood pulp based traps for pheremone only. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 07:19:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Larry Krengel Subject: Sugar-Water Spray MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Todd says - I've dabbled a bit with using sugar-water in a pump sprayer rather than a smoker. I use sugar water in a sprayer when I hive a swarm. I spray it on the swarm itself, and on the comb in the hive where I intend them to begin work. I does seem to give them a purpose. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 13:32:13 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Morton Organization: Central Science Laboratory Subject: Re: National Bee Unit Web Site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit eauairsols@YAHOO.COM wrote: >I used to use the on-line varroa calculator from >the National Bee Unit in GB. But it seems I can not >reach their web site any longer. Does any gentleman >from the UK know if the varroa calculator is still on >the web ? Did the web site move to another address ? The UK's CSL National Bee Unit website can be reached at www.nationalbeeunit.com as usual. I don't know why you couldn't reach it, but I checked this morning and the site is working normally. Whilst on the subject, I'll use the opportunity to publicise some of the features of the site, which include: * Information of the function and activities of the CSL National Bee Unit (located in York, England) * The online-varroa calculator mentioned above. This used to interpret varroa monitoring data, predict varroa population growth and help with deciding on timing of varroa treatment. * Information on NBUs bee health inspection programme in England and Wales * CSL/DEFRA Advisory leaflets for beekeepers (e.g. foulbrood, managing varroa, small hive beetle) * Information on varroa resistance to pyrethroids in the UK * Information on the NBU's bee health research programme. * Information on monitoring UK honey for residues of veterinary medicines James -- ___________________________________________________________________________ James Morton National Bee Inspector Central Science Laboratory - National Bee Unit Tel/fax: 020 8571 6450 Mobile: 07719 924 418 E-mail: j.morton@csl.gov.uk CSL website: http://www.csl.gov.uk National Bee Unit website: http://www.nationalbeeunit.com ___________________________________________________________________________ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:42:39 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Re: National bee unit web site In-Reply-To: <20030516021150.91076.qmail@web20804.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Did the web site move to another address ? It works this morning. Please forget my question Hervé ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:11:29 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Varroa Resistance to Apistan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been thinking about fluvalinate resistant mites, and tests used to detect them. I gather the Pettis test is the standard test and that variations such as the one described at http://www.csl.gov.uk/prodserv/cons/bee/resistance/RTFS.pdf are also used. Such tests seem to me to be somewhat academic and cumbersome for the average beekeeper who is using Apistan with good success. For most of us, if we simply monitor our hives for natural mite drop at several times over the season (which we do here), will it not be obvious if an Apistan treatment fails or is not completely successful? Such monitoring also tells us when using this expensive treatment is justified, and when we can save our $$$ because the varroa is well below harmful levels. If we check for natural mite drop a short while after using Apistan and find we are getting a drop, then we must assume that the Apistan did not work. At that point, we must decide why. Perhaps the Apistan employed was defective or had been stored badly, maybe it was installed away from the cluster, or maybe Apistan is no longer effective against the mites. At that point, it might make sense to use the Pettis test or a modification to confirm our suspicions, but as a routine monitor, these test seem to me to be cumbersome, time-consuming and destructive to bees. I guess what I'm saying is that complex tests are not necessary to get a heads-up if resistance evolves or migrates to our apiaries -- regular observation of natural drops with simple screened sticky boards should give us advance warning of disaster, at very low cost and minimal effort. Given the simplicity of sticky board monitoring, and the vital information that even a few boards in an apiary can return, I find it hard to believe that there are still beekeepers out there who have never used a sticky board, but there are quite a few. Why? allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 21:51:13 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: National Bee Unit Web Site ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Morton" > > The UK's CSL National Bee Unit website can be reached at > www.nationalbeeunit.com as usual. I don't know why you couldn't reach > it, but I checked this morning and the site is working normally. James I checked this morning and it was down. Checked 10 mins later and it was OK, so I posted my message giving the link. I have found it to be unavailable on several occasions recently. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 22:26:27 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Morris Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 15 May 2003 to 16 May 2003 (#2003-137) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 03-05-17 00:04:48 EDT, you write: << Given the simplicity of sticky board monitoring, and the vital information that even a few boards in an apiary can return, I find it hard to believe that there are still beekeepers out there who have never used a sticky board, but there are quite a few. Why >> Allen, I cant speak for everyone on this, but I can at least give a few reasons why people dont use them. Some really have never heard of them. Others still dont know how to use them correctly, I know one fellow that cut them down to fit his bottom boards--you can imagine the mess. I know several people that will not buy pollen collector or other suitable woodware to hold the board. Just a few thoughts. Tim Morris South Central Tennessee where there is TOO much water. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 19:16:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Morris Subject: Slow Day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I assume that today is slow because everyone is busy out there. The rain has keep us out of the fields and away from hives. I attempted to feed just two packages that I installed about 3 weeks ago. NEVER try and open a hive in the rain. They boiled out, up the arm and now the wife has 7 stings in the face/head/neck area. We did get the jars on the hives though. Tim Morris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 21:18:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: muses Subject: Ultra Filtration and "Water" is not just "water" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you Jim, So the final word is that ultra filtration will not leave honey... honey? Or not? Is there ANYTHING we can do to prevent this process from ruining the honey market in our countries? Do we even HAVE lobiests to defend us? Oh what to do... :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 22:09:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Slow Day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tim said: NEVER try and open a hive in the rain. They boiled out, up the arm and now the wife has 7 stings in the face/head/neck area. I work hives in the rain every time we get a wet spring. This spring we moved bees into and out of Apples in the rain (open entrances). Installed queens and fed in the rain plus a bunch of minor chores. If I did not work in the rain I would be farther behind than I am. I do wear a veil on a rainy day as the bees can be testy on a cloudy rainy day. When the rain is really coming down we sit in the truck but when the rain slows we go back to work. Several days this spring I have had to get out of wet clothes at lunch and change to a dry bee suit. I try to not make splits in the rain but have done so when the temperature is warm and only a light mist coming down. Use smoke and smoke the entrance. Crack the top and lightly smoke. Wait a minute and then slowly lift the lid. Without smoke on a rainy day the bees will roar when the lid is opened and many times put their stingers in the air and many will fly out to sting you or your suit. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 07:28:15 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: Slow Day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>I work hives in the rain every time we get a wet spring. << I find u can work bees with no trouble, and minimal smoke, in the rain if they are flying - and they do fly when it rains , even to collect water. Probably nectar too, some trees for example have downwards hanging flowers that presumably do not get wet. So temperature is probably more important. Bees sting only to defend the nest - opening in cold weather is dangerous for them, but u can do even that if u smoke and are very quick. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 06:47:10 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: Varooa resistance to Apistan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << Given the simplicity of sticky board monitoring, and the vital information that even a few boards in an apiary can return, I find it hard to believe that there are still beekeepers out there who have never used a sticky board, but there are quite a few. Why >> I believe the problem amongst hobby beekeepers in UK is that once they have bought equipment when setting up, they think that's it. There is no follow up by suppliers, telling of new developments and need to update. Journal circulation is a lot less than the number of people keeping bees. Sticky boards are also a clumsy half-way answer at best - by now, it should have become standrad practice to modify ALL hives to incorporate PERMANENT open mesh floors, which can have simple wood or wipe-clean plastic trays slid or clipped beneath, with or without a solid floor below that. Monitoring only a selection of hives in an apiary can miss the odd one with above-average infestation, which increases spread of Varooa. Monitoring can only become more necessary as resistant mites spread and we have to start using a range of carefully-timed methods for Varooa control - unless of course a new super 'silver bullet' appears , returning us to the golden age when all we have to do is insert an annual treatment at a fixed time. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 00:23:07 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Ultra Filtration and "Water" is not just "water" Muses mused: > So the final word is that ultra filtration will not > leave honey... honey? You may have missed it, but Allen Dick posted a link to a copy of a letter from the (US) National Honey Board http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/ultra.htm which drew the line clearly, saying, in part: "...the [USA] Food and Drug Administration has determined that UF honey should not be labeled as "honey" or even "ultrafiltered honey", but must be labeled "sweeteners derived from honey" or "sweeteners from honey..." > Is there ANYTHING we can do to prevent this process from ruining > the honey market in our countries? At least the USA is apparently "safe" from this specific process. I'm not sure what other countries can do, but the FDA ruling is clearly a good precedent for others to point to. Now, if the FDA could only rule that products using the term "Honey" in the name of the product should use honey as the primary sweetener... but I am a hopeless dreamer, aren't I? (Perhaps it should the Federal Trade Commission to enforce this under the "Truth In Adverstising" regulations.) > Do we even HAVE lobiests to defend us? We don't appear to need them in this case. The FDA seems to have looked at the facts, and based their decision on existing definitions and regulations. jim (Who today went out to buy a Hummer H2, only to find that "H2" does NOT mean Hydrogen-fueled!) [ NB: The lack of a roof-mounted GAU-19 12.7mm 1,300 round per minute gattling gun as an option on the H2 had nothing to do with it. ] :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 20:57:53 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mea McNeil Subject: Re: propolis traps In-Reply-To: <20030515230431.24093.qmail@confucius.synacor.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed A violin maker and a bass player have each asked us for propolis to treat their instruments. We'd like to know if anyone has had success with the commercial propolis traps made to replace the inner cover (sold by Dadant, Mann Lake and others). Comments in the Bee-L archives from a few beekeepers several years ago indicate that they did not have much luck with them. Are there other, more successful methods of gathering propolis? I imagine it would have to be pretty clean -- not the gunk we scrape off the supers. I can't imagine coming up with the kilo one guy is looking for. MEA McNeil :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 08:22:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Dr. Malcolm T. Sanford" Subject: A Chance to Promote Your Site on BEE-L Comments: cc: Kim Flottum In-Reply-To: <200305160402.h4G402bV009175@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Dear Bee-L ers. Just a note about the Apis Information Resource Center . This site has several functions. It allows you to subscribe to the electronic version of the Apis Newsletter, now in its twentieth year of publication. There are 676 subscribers at the present time . You can also see archived versions of older issues. The newsletter is monitored; there is only one message a month at the present time; all postings are screened and if used, are incorporated by the editor as part of the monthly offering. By sending your e-mail address through a form at the site you can receive automatic messages from the Apis Information Resource Center reminding you to check in for free information . I have put up several databases that are developed on a program called Author-It....very powerful....I am selling full databases in English and Spanish using the PayPal payment method.....this has resulted in very few sales....I would be interested in feedback as to why this is so. >Malcolm T. Sanford Dr. Malcolm T. Sanford Retired Extension Apiculturist, Professor Emeritus University of Florida, P.O. Box 110620, Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 To subscribe to the revamped Apis newsletter, see: http://apis.shorturl.com/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 07:44:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: propolis traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mea said: We'd like to know if anyone has had success with the commercial propolis traps made to replace the inner cover (sold by Dadant, Mann Lake and others). Sure! These traps work if done at the right time in the right situation. As I posted awhile back the bees will even fill a mason jar with honey comb if conditions are right and the placement of the jar correct in a strong honey flow. The jars a real attention getters at fairs! Check archives for information. To gather propolis you need a strain of bees which is known to use quite a bit of propolis such as the cauc bee in my opinion. Mea said: Comments in the Bee-L archives from a few beekeepers several years ago indicate that they did not have much luck with them. Beekeeping is not as easy as many would have you believe. Many hard luck stories in the archives about all types of beekeeping. Many beekeepers would rather give up on Ross rounds, propolis collection, Hogg cassettes, perfect comb honey etc. rather than learn what they are doing wrong and step up to the next level of beekeeping. Mea said: I can't imagine coming up with the kilo one guy is looking for. Propolis collection is like hunting for Morel mushrooms in spring in Missouri. At times you can look all day and come home without any or a few. Other times you can fill a five gallon bucket in a matter of minutes. Bob Ps. Wild Morel mushrooms were selling for around twenty dollars a pound (U.S.) last Saturday at the farmers market. City people were standing in line and all sellers were sold out by ten am. A seven pound Morel mushroom was found this year in Ottawa , Kansas. The local mushroom hunter even got his picture in the K.C. paper! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 17:12:59 +0100 Reply-To: max.watkins@vita-europe.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Max Watkins Subject: Re: Varroa Resistance to Apistan In-Reply-To: <008101c31bce$32e5f4d0$81b85ad1@Pegasus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree that the most practical way to determine whether a varroa treatment is necessary or not is to monitor the colony closely, checking mite fall; it makes no commercial or practical sense to treat a hive if there are no or very few mites in it. Whether or not a colony's varroa are pyrethroid-resistant (or OP or other chemical resistant) or not may be useful to know if you want to avoid wasting more money in future using a treatment in that hive that gives insufficient control. The pyrethroid resistance field and laboratory kits (developed in the early 90's by Europe by Vita (Europe) Limited and the University of Udine, Italy by the way with a modified version being used later in The States by Beltsville) are tools only. They can be used to give a more accurate diagnosis of resistance before a beekeeper wastes money and time on a full treatment. In Europe we (Vita and various beekeeping institutes) use them for monitoring resistance and the potential for reversion in area of known resistance, not as a commercial product. Resistance can be incorrectly diagnosed - as an example there was one beekeeper a few years back who claimed resistance to Bayvarol (another pyrethroid treatment) as he had put the strips in his colony and very few mites fell. On close examination the hive was found to contain no mites - ie a very low infestation, not resistance! Mites in the hive following a treatment isn't always an indication of resistance; reinvasion is very common especially in highly infested colony locations, treatments aren't always used properly etc. The resistance kits will be able to confirm the presence or absence of resistant mites, for sure but they must be regarded as one tool only. Monitoring the colony is simpler for many professional beekeepers and as Allen says, if the resistance levels are high and you're monitoring frequently, you'll soon know about it. Power to the sticky board! Max Dr Max Watkins Vita (Europe) Limited 21/23 Wote Street Basingstoke Hampshire RG21 7NE UK Tel.: +44 (0) 1256 473177 Fax: +44 (0) 1256 473179 e-mail: max.watkins@vita-europe.com web: http://www.vita-europe.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 14:24:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: bee comb in mason jar by bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, Mike of our list said by direct email he could not find information on = getting the bees to make comb in mason jars in the archives so will post = the information I sent Mike in case others had the same trouble. The basics are to cut an inner cover with about six holes in which a = mason jar neck will fit. Most people cut a piece of foundation to fit across the jar to get the = bees started. We usually attach to the jar bottom with melted beeswax. When a strong honey flow is on pull the supers and place the inner = cover with the jars in the place of the supers. Cover the inner cover = with a empty super or hive body. A strong hive will complete the six jars in about a week *usually*. We then fill the rest of the jar with extracted honey . We keep a few jars at the Missouri state fair to show people when they = say: "Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could get the bees to put the honey = in the jars for you". No worries we say and show the people our Missouri bees will put the = comb honey in jars for us. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 14:40:59 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Hived swarm had other ideas In-Reply-To: <00b101c31e3c$43d1cd80$49ac58d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I got a swarm call about 10 this morning -- they were on a street sign post about 10 feet off the ground, and had been there since late yesterday. It was a simple job to ascend a stepladder and brush them into a cardboard box. I then dumped them from the box into a nuc box and put the lid on. There were now a few hundred bees still swirling around, but the hived bees exhibited all the signs of a successful swarm collection; several were positioned at the entrance with their abdomens pointing out, and some additional bees were entering. However, about 5-10 minutes after dumping them in, as I stood talking to the locals and waiting for the rest of the bees to enter, I suddenly noticed that bees were coming out! Before long there were thousands swirling around, and after a couple of minutes the cloud began to dissipate and I lifted the lid of the nuc box to find it empty save for about a dozen stragglers. So what happened? Did scout bees return with news of a new home site AFTER I had hived the swarm? Or were they already preparing to leave, and if so, why did they stay in the box as long as they did? Eugene __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 20:26:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Varroa Resistance to Apistan Max wrote "I agree that the most practical way to determine whether a varroa treatment is necessary or not is to monitor the colony closely, checking mite fall; it makes no commercial or practical sense to treat a hive if there are no or very few mites in it." I respectfully disagree. If you have an apiary of 10 hives, and 2 show lots of Varroa, and 8 show little, I would treat the whole apiary. Treating only the two typically would require more treatments in the long run. I realize I've only got 100 hives, but still, using the same agricultural practices that I used on larger commerical table grape and mellon farms, specifically methodical, systematic and thourogh treatments, I'm in to my third year with one November aplication of Check-mite, and my drone larvae are spotless. To treat just one hive or two will just result in reinfecting the hives you treat now a few months after treatment. Regards Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 07:23:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Larry Krengel Subject: Hived swarm had other ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit from Eugene - I suddenly noticed that bees were coming out! Before long there were thousands swirling around, and after a couple of minutes the cloud began to dissipate and I lifted the lid of the nuc box to find it empty --- I suspect you missed the queen. I had a similar experience last week, but I successfully hived them on the second try. On a similar note, I had a bee call yesterday - bees on the tree by the front porch. When I follow up I found that not only have I been called, but the local media are planning to join in the hiving. Forty-five minutes before all of us arrive, the swarm picks up and leaves for who-knows-where. Certainly a mind of their own. Do you think they are media shy? They did mess up their 15 minutes of fame! Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 06:33:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Styrofoam Hives Revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I finally got around to examining my Styrofoam hives and recording the result -- with photos -- on my current diary page. I had thirteen, 12 Beemax and 1 Swienty. Of the 13, I lost 5 over winter. Of the 12 controls, I lost none. My test was hardly scientific. I transferred the bees into the boxes late. I've heard that others, Aaron and Murray included had great results with the plastic hives. Pictures and more details are at http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 06:07:49 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Re: Hived swarm had other ideas In-Reply-To: <001801c31eca$ad1382f0$ad9aacd1@Tom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I suspect you missed the queen. I had a similar > experience last week, but I > successfully hived them on the second try. But it was so easy! I brushed the whole cluster into the box in 3 swipes, leaving only the airborne ones. Is it possible the queen took flight as I was dumping them in? And why, then, did the bees wait a few minutes to come out of the nuc box, after acting so much like the queen was inside? Eugene __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 10:04:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Hived swarm had other ideas "But it was so easy! I brushed the whole cluster into the box in 3 swipes, leaving only the airborne ones. Is it possible the queen took flight as I was dumping them in? And why, then, did the bees wait a few minutes to come out of the nuc box, after acting so much like the queen was inside?" There could have been many reasons. Maybe some smell they didn't like, or the scout bees insistant, or whatever. Unless I'm different that the others who have been hiving swarms for a couple decades, you're going to loose a percentage. I've had them take off after several days seemingly happy in the hive. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:00:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Hived swarm had other ideas In-Reply-To: <200305201404.h4KDkrbx022511@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:04 AM 5/20/03 -0400, you wrote: >And why, then, did the bees wait a few >minutes to come out of the nuc box, after acting so >much like the queen was inside?" It happens sometimes. Last year I though I hived a swarm successfully only to return the next day to find the swarm had moved out of the hive and was hanging off the back of the outer cover. Nothing would have lead me to belive the day before that anything was amiss, and they even emptied the feeder in the hive, but apparently I missed the queen. I though then it would be a simple matter of lifting the lid, shaking the bees into the hive and replacing the lid. However, they had other ideas. On the first shake they all took off and headed off across the adjacent field, never to be seen again. Just 2 days ago I hived a swarm on the same branch of the same tree in exactly the same way as the above swarm. This time they stayed. Anyone else ever notice that swarms seem to take up the same perches year after year? -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 13:03:21 -0400 Reply-To: drahman@owens.edu Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Don T. Rahman" Organization: Owens Community College Subject: Re: Hived swarm had other ideas In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030520105058.04067520@pop3.wcoil.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've had two swarms this year on the exact same branch in the same bush. I wonder if it's a phermonal thing. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:37:53 -0600 Reply-To: Mathew Westall Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mathew Westall Subject: Re: Hived swarm had other ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It appears your elusive queen had other ideas. You might have brushed her into the air when hiving the swarm off the sign. The simplest thing is just to spray the bees with light(very) syrup/water which keeps them busy for 5-10 minutes. Next time? If you have a piece of queen excluder - cut it to fit your nuc/swarm box. If the queen can't leave the swarm stays and you have absolute control (vs. the bees). You can also use queen excluders this way UNDER any hard-start swarms/packages (hard start = no brood/some or all undrawn foundation/lots of syrup). Or bring out a nuc with a frame of brood but it may easily chill in colder areas. Matthew Westall - E-Bees - Castle Rock, CO - USA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 23:19:24 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Hived swarm had other ideas >And why, then, did the bees wait a few > minutes to come out of the nuc box, after acting so > much like the queen was inside? > > Eugene > Another possibility: had the nuc box been standing in the sun? I have had a swarm come back out of a hive that was just too hot. (That would not happen with the weather that we are suffering today - and have been suffering since 1st May!). I think that when 'good' swarms leave after a night or two in the hive, this is almost invariably because they are headed by an unmated, or not fully mated, new queen - she takes off on a mating flight and the rest go with her (they have no future without her). The reason that some of these swarms are so large may be that a colony with a clipped queen prepares to swarm, the queen is lost and then the first virgin to emerge heads a huge swarm because by this time most of the brood has hatched. The same could happen where a queen dies or is accidentally killed by the beekeeper. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 23:01:22 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: Varroa Resistance to Apistan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tim Vaughan wrote: >If you have an apiary of 10 hives, and 2 show lots of Varroa, and 8 show little, I would treat the whole apiary. Treating only the two typically would require more treatments in the long run< This is so important an issue that I hope expert medicos will put us right on it and that Max Watkins of Vita will correct any mis-statement below. In UK, we have understood that every single time u use a chemical accaricide, u move one step nearer to resistance. That is because the surviving 2 % mites contain ALL those on the path to developing resistance through natural mutation and the 2% is now 100% of the mite left in that hive. So next time it needs treating, the whole lot have whatever degree of resistance has been developed. Then you filter out the vulnerable once again, leaving the most resistant - and so on until finally , at some time, the bees have developed full resistance. It is apparently inevitable - the only question is how long the process will take. The fewer times the chemical is used, the longer the overall period the chemical will be effective. The more times an alternative is interleaved with regular use of the chemical, the longer the time before resistance is commonplace. Treating 10 hives when only 2 need it accelerates the process 5 times. Do we want accaricides to last for the next one thousand years or only a decade or two? If you treat only when needed, there should be no re-infestation if all hives are regularly monitored. I say again that by this time (it is over 10 years since Varooa first hit UK) all hives should be made with open mesh floors as standard. Sticky pads are fiddly and get stuck to everything as well as Varooa, and require the beekeeper to keep making or getting new sheets. A wipe-clean tray under a screen needs no maintenance and is ready for use at any time, which makes monitoring practical. But the catalogue of the UK's largest supplier still show the hives on page 4 and the optional extra of a mesh floor as far back as page 13. Replacement floors incorporating mesh are as far back as page 36. Is this the same in other countries? Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 22:30:22 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: Hived swarm had other ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eugene Makovec wondered: >about > 5-10 minutes after dumping them in, as I stood talking > to the locals and waiting for the rest of the bees to > enter, I suddenly noticed that bees were coming out! So what happened? < It's anyone's guess, but your account is consistent with the bees having just decided on a new site BEFORE you boxed them - they had been there some time , you said. You then totally disrupted the social organisation within the cluster by dropping them into the box , so communication within the cluster stopped. An established swarm cluster is hollow, with holes thru to the centre thru which returning bees get to the inside, and scout bees can be seen 'dancing' on the surface. It took the 10 mins or more for the cluster to reform within the nuc box, but the scouts could then make the buzzing runs that get a swarm moving out of a hive in the first place - and out they came and away. So not much u could do - except to wrap a swarm box up in a cloth just as soon as you dump the bees in, if the swarm has been out some time - without waiting for the fliers to go in - and saw it go while the garden owner gave me a cup of tea. I felt stupid as I was midway in a knowledgeable lecture on how good bees were for the environment. So now I always wrap up straightaway. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 22:06:16 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Styrofoam Hives Revisited OK, I'll bite... So you tested UNWRAPPED "styrofoam" hives against wrapped wooden hives? And you did not add any sort of upper entrance to the styrofoam hives? Isn't this sort of like having a "who can dive the deepest" contest where one contestant is given a wetsuit and a tank of air? ...or did the maker/vendor/dealer claim that styrofoam hives "needed no winter wrapping", not knowing that someone would take them at their word chosing a test site not far from the location where the movie "Ice Station Zebra" http://cinerama.topcities.com/iszticketflyer.htm http://cinerama.topcities.com/iszphoto4.jpg was filmed? jim (Who notes that Bee-L is a mechanism that enables beekeepers with a life to benefit from the labors of those who don't.) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:25:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Morris Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 19 May 2003 to 20 May 2003 (#2003-141) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 03-05-21 00:02:50 EDT, you write: << Anyone else ever notice that swarms seem to take up the same perches year after year? -Tim >> Tim, I pulled three swarms off the same branch two years ago, with the last swarm resulting in my cutting the branch off. I then got two more swarms from bushs/trees on either side of this bush/tree. They all were in a large privet hedge. I had one hive that swarmed I believe 7 times that year. We were out of town for about 3 weeks and the fellow I had watching them didnt come over as previously agreed apon. This all happened in about a 2 week time period to boot. Tim Morris South Central Tennessee :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 11:31:06 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Vs: Re: [BEE-L] Styrofoam Hives Revisited - experience exist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit James Fischer wrote > So you tested UNWRAPPED "styrofoam" hives against wrapped > wooden hives? > And you did not add any sort of upper entrance to the > styrofoam hives? > Isn't this sort of like having a "who can dive the deepest" > contest where one contestant is given a wetsuit and a tank > of air? Liwing in Finland is often quite like "Ice Station Zebra" . My bees are almost always 6 months witout any chance for flight. Last winter they stayed in hives about 7 months. 25.9 - 15.4 Coldest month averaged about - 15 with coldest week averaging - 25 C. Bees looked wery happy when the first cleansing flight day come ..... I have experience of wintering with styrofoam hives since 1986. We don't ever use upper enrances or wrappings in the hives. The ventilation works through the screen on the floor. Water from metabolism condensates on the walls, runs to the floor and out it goes throuhg the screen. On winter you can see icicles hanging from the screen. If you bother to dig so deep in the snow that you get the see it. I haven't noticed much differences in wintering compared to wooden insulated hives. But here wooden hives mean double walls with 3 - 4 cm of insulation between them. These hives are heavy and cost at the moment about 2,5 times the styrofoam price, which is about 10 euro without tax. That's why almost all new equipment is now styrofoam. Most commercial beekeepers have only styrofoam hives. The wooden hives are traditionally wrapped with thin tar paper, but they are always without upper entrances. The top of the hive has an inner cover which allows the moisture to pass through during the winter. Wood fiber board with a hole about 10 cm * 10 cm. + 10 cm of insulation on top of that. No plastic sheets on top ! Ari Seppälä MMM Projektipäällikkö Project Manager Suomen Mehiläishoitajain Liitto r.y. Finnish Beekeepers' Association komppa-seppala@co.inet.fi www.hunaja.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 08:10:35 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Vs: Re: [BEE-L] Varroa Resistance to Apistan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Robin Dartington wrote But the catalogue of the UK's largest supplier still > show the hives on page 4 and the optional extra of a mesh floor as far back > as page 13. Replacement floors incorporating mesh are as far back as page > 36. Is this the same in other countries? Varroa was found in Finland 1980. I have been working as an advisor for edecating beekeepers how to live with it for 6 years now. This spring I feel I have achieved something. 80 % of new hives sold here have screen bottom with easily removable tray for varroa monitoring. Last year the count was about 40 %. So Robin, you only have to wait for about 13 years ..... Ari Seppälä MMM Projektipäällikkö Project Manager Suomen Mehiläishoitajain Liitto r.y. Finnish Beekeepers' Association komppa-seppala@co.inet.fi www.hunaja.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:41:32 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Varroa Resistance to Apistan ----- Original Message ----- From: "allen dick" > Given the simplicity of sticky board monitoring, and the vital > information that even a few boards in an apiary can return, I find it > hard to believe that there are still beekeepers out there who have never > used a sticky board, but there are quite a few. Why? Allen Did you mean 'sticky' specifically, or any screened floor with a tray? I have never used 'sticky' boards - on the basis of the work involved in replacing them (and the cost) - but do have varroa floors with a removable board under around 15% of my colonies. This works, but is a terrible breeding ground for wax moth if you do not get to the colonies regularly. I now find that with my thymol (only) treatment (details on the website), varroa levels are so low that there seems little point in monitoring. I monitor by uncapping drone brood as I inspect and so far this spring I have probably seen less than a dozen varroa on drone larvae in 120 colonies. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:21:08 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Hived swarm had other ideas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Gray" > So not much u could do - except to wrap a swarm box up in a cloth just as > soon as you dump the bees in, if the swarm has been out some time - without > waiting for the fliers to go in - and saw it go while the garden owner gave > me a cup of tea. I felt stupid as I was midway in a knowledgeable lecture > on how good bees were for the environment. So now I always wrap up > straightaway. This seems to me to be a very irresponsible way to take a swarm, especially from someone's garden. The fliers can hang around for days causing considerable problems. We used to have an association member who did this regularly and I was called on several occasions to try to sort out the mess - eventually we quietly removed him from the swarm list! You are also getting a much smaller swarm than you would if you left the box until evening before wrapping it up. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:09:24 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Sick Bumblebees I have had an email from a member of the public about bees in a nesting box. Apparently some are falling on to the ground and there is a 'yellow liquid' on the front of the box. I now have a photograph which I have posted on the website: www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/Images/SickBumblebees.jpg Looks like dysentry to me and I wonder if it is poisoning by red horsechestnut (apparently there are some nearby). I have never seen this before and would be interested to hear any comments. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 08:37:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Varroa Resistance to Apistan Robin wrote "If you treat only when needed, there should be no re-infestation if all hives are regularly monitored." Not sure I understand the logic. So you treat one hive with lots of mites, and not another with few mites 2 feet ways. How is monotoring the hives going to keep the drones from flying back and forth? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:07:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Re: Hived swarm had other ideas In-Reply-To: <000901c31f1d$e22fc540$b8b787d9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Another possibility: had the nuc box been standing > in the sun? I have had a > swarm come back out of a hive that was just too hot. It was a nice day, about 70 degrees F, and I put the nuc down in the partial shadow of the pole the swarm was attached to. I'm becoming more convinced that my first thought was correct -- the swarm had been there long enough that they were just getting ready to move by the time I got there. Robin's explanation of how the "hollow swarm" works makes sense of why it took them a few minutes to get organized after I hived them. Eugene __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 22:11:20 +0530 Reply-To: "Dr. Rajiv K. Gupta" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Dr. Rajiv K. Gupta" Organization: Zoology, Jai Narain Vyas University, Jodhpur 342 005, India Subject: e-mail ids of Indian bee workers MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Dr. Allen Dick, A few days ago you kindly informed us that around 840 members subscribe to BEE-L. Do you list any other Indian and neighbouring countryman working on honey bee/non-Apis bees subscribing to your ListServer. If yes, will you please send me his/her e-mail id. For the last 24 years I have been confined to non-Apis bees and most of the honey bee workers known to me have retired, I wish to know who else is continuously working on the groups. Maybe anyone listed on the BEE-L would oblige me by replying to my request. Yours faithfully, Dr. Rajiv K. Gupta Associate Professor Department of Zoology Jai Narain Vyas University Jodhpur 342 005 Phone +91-291-272 6666 E-mail: beesind@sancharnet.in Visit URL: http://www.geocities.com/beesind for "An Updating Bibliography of the Bees of the World" First Issue and, download free of cost. Next updated issue will be released on 19 June 2003. and Visit URL http://geocities.com/beesind2 for "An Annotated Catalogue of the Bee Species of the Indian Region". Releasing on 31 May, 2003. Download free of cost. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 12:08:44 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Hived swarm had other ideas Eugene said: > I got a swarm call... > ...had been there since late yesterday. So the swarm had been there long enough for scouts to have found several choices in new colony sites. The longer the swarm "hangs around", the more certain you can be that scouts are dancing in favor of a new hive location and/or the colony is coming to a consensus about a new home. > ...all the signs of a successful swarm collection; Gee, I did not know that there WERE any such signs other than "getting the bees in a box". :) The outcome of your attempt may force you to reconsider your faith in "signs" of this sort. > ...and some additional bees were entering. Perhaps scouts and recruited "critics" returning from visits to review and critique one or more possible hive locations? > ...I suddenly noticed that bees were coming out! > So what happened? Did scout bees return with news > of a new home site AFTER I had hived the swarm? I'd guess that they were in the process of deciding on a new site before you got there. I doubt that the entire process takes only 5-10 minutes, and the bees had nothing better to do than find a new home once they settled on the sign-post. > Or were they already preparing to leave, >From what you said, I think so. > and if so, why did they stay in the box as > long as they did? Well, here's the current consensus on how swarming is supposed to work. Most times... Maybe... If something else doesn't happen... And if Mercury is not retrograde... Except on Tuesdays... a) Scouts go out to find potential sites. b) Findings are "reported" via dancing on the surface of the swarm (has anyone ever filmed this?) c) Bees are "recruited" by the dancer, as in foraging d) Those bees go check out the reported site. e) They come back and also dance. f) After enough tours by critics, a consensus is reached on which is the "best" site. g) The swarm as a whole leaves. You apparently tried to collect a swarm that was at least at step (d), if not (e) or (f). Not much one can do, except not give swarms the option of embarrassing you in this manner. Prepare a cardboard box to hold frames, and put a screened vent and a few cone bee escapes (pointing inward) in a lid flap, so you can capture the swarm, tape up the flaps, and let any "stragglers" enter via the cone(s). The idea here is that "no one leaves" once you get the bulk of the swarm boxed. Boxes for rack mounted networking gear are exactly the right size for this purpose, as equipment racks are 19 inches wide by 24 inches deep, and the boxes are slighly larger. I use medium frames, so a box from any Cisco 72xx (or larger) router is perfect. Server boxes and switch boxes are also the right size. Ask your local network guru (every town has one these days) for a box from "any 5.25-inch or deeper rack-mount device". The foam that is used to cushion the equipment can be cut with a razor blade to make "frame rests" recessed into the foam to keep the frames from banging around in transport. I leave about 1/2 inch of foam between every frame ear cut-out to insure that the frames do not bang. Cut out the foam thinner than the width of the frame ears so friction will hold the frames still. Cardboard boxes are also much lighter to carry, lift, handle, and hoist on ropes to high locations. Then, you can take the sealed swarm home, and hive it in 3 to 4 mediums, since this is claimed to be the approximate the size of the "ideal" cavity size found as an average of some large number of feral colony locations studied. But even this does not mean that they won't take off the moment you hive them, so I also spray the bees with a very dilute sugar-water mix upon hiving, just to make it harder for them to launch sorties, or take off as a whole. The hope here is that with time, everyone forgets about leaving, and realizes that "here" is a decent place. Some open brood stolen from another hive also helps to give them a reason to stay "home". But we know more about the formation of stars in gas nebula hundreds of light years away than we know about "swarming". There simply are no firm "rules" for swarming, which makes swarm collection an "art" rather than a "science". It is a dice roll at best. But, if you never take chances, you never know how it feels when they pay off. jim (Who, as a child, chased rainbows with his father, and now chases swarms with his father, having almost exactly the same success rate) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 17:16:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Varroa Resistance to Apistan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tim, Having now treated 3 years in succession annually with Checkmite, maybe it is time to do an Apistan resistance test. This will let you know whether you can go back to Apistan as a break from Checkmite. I gather that resistance fades after a few years. Max may come back and tell us more. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 23:13:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Styrofoam Hives Revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > So you tested UNWRAPPED "styrofoam" hives against wrapped > wooden hives? > ...or did the maker/vendor/dealer claim that styrofoam hives > "needed no winter wrapping Well, I did not realise that everyone does not know about these hives and their uses, since they have been discussed from time to time here on BEE-L. Rather than get into long explanations, I leave it for readers to decide how polystyrene hives are supposed to be used and whether they need additional insulation, and give me their comments. Visit my current diary for links to both Swienty and BeeMax or try http://www.betterbee.com/departments2.asp?dept=118&top=73&bottom=83&title=HIVE+ESSENTIALS http://www.swienty.com/engelsk/hives-nakka.html http://www.swienty.com/engelsk/hives-lshel.html And P-O's pages at http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/biodling/hive.htm http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/biodling/hive_7.jpg There is also a PDF at Swienty, but I was unable to get the index or the PDF to comeup in any of my browsers. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:43:04 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Varroa Resistance to Apistan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Given the simplicity of sticky board monitoring > Did you mean 'sticky' specifically, or any screened floor with a tray? I was referring to *any* method that monitors the natural drop of mites within bee colonies. The percentage of hives to monitor, the timing, the paraphenalia employed, and the exact method is a matter best decided by the beekeeper, after considering his/her locale, practices, history, budget, etc. The simple sticky board is the simplest, cheapest, and most direct way to find out how many mites are dying every day, and determining -- by simple math -- a range of probable adult mite populations in the hive. Such a test board can be whipped up by just about anyone in anywhere from a few minutes to an hour or two, using materials that should be fairly close at hand. Obtaining a screen that is a bit coarser than window screen is usually the biggest hassle. Anyone can count the mites dropping per day and multiply by 100. Without the information that such a test will provide within a day or two, IMO, it is not possible to know the need for treatment,and whether a treatment has worked. It is stunning how many people wonder why their bees died and wonder if it was varroa, but have no idea how many varroa were in the hives when a quick test is easy do do. Although specialized floors and screens, etc, make the job easy -- once they are obtained and installed -- IMO, too often, the lack of such equipment is an excuse for procrastination. Perfectionism also prevents people from simply taking a chunk of white cardboard, coroplast, or even a plastic foundation sheet (see http://www.honeybeeworld.com/formic/ ), smearing it with vaseline, covering it with a screen and getting started. Who, except someone researching varroa resistance, cares is there are 2,000 or 10,000 mites in a hive? For most of us, that means 'treat soon'. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ Styro hives, flooded bees, and much more :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 21:20:16 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: Hived swarm had other ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Edwards reproved me, when I said wrap up a swarm straightaway : >This seems to me to be a very irresponsible way to take a swarm, especially from someone's garden. The fliers can hang around for days causing considerable problems. < Well , yes , I suppose so. The later idea from the list of using a box with queen excluder under would stop the swarm leaving, but not the embarassment as the swarm takes to the air, and everyone runs inside , while u stand there for 20-30 mins until the swarm returns to the box. So perhaps Jim's idea of fitting cone escapes as entries is the best. The more trouble it is however the less I feel inclined to spend my time at my risk for most often a poor lot of bees. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 21:28:55 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: Varroa Resistance to Apistan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Edwards said: >I now find that with my thymol (only) treatment (details on the website), > varroa levels are so low that there seems little point in monitoring.< It is becoming clearer from this list that experience depends on whether u keep bees close to other beekeepers and feral colonies or are isolated. In my area, monitoring of all hives shows that one single hive can suddenly leap in Varooa, due I imagine to robbing an infested colony. If missed, that colony then spreads the mite. Regular treatment with a suppressant such as thymol cannot cope with a sudden surge. Move your bees u may say. Unfortuneately, this is a good area for forage which is why the other bees are here. I suspect this random sudden rise in infestation level in single colonies may be common - but does anyone else think so? Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 22:11:19 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: European Foul Brood A few points on the recent postings about EFB. (Incidentally, nobody seemed to know how it is handled in Europe): Dave said: > We've come to regard susceptibility to EFB as a genetic weakness, and > that good breeding can eliminate it. It would seem logical that if it possible to breed bees that are resistant to AFB then the same could be done for EFB; perhaps the mechanism is the same and AFB resistant bees would there be resistant to EFB? Bob said: > Controlling EFB without antibiotics is futile in my opinion when on the > scale talked about both publicly (and privately) in the U.K. Many are > using> antibiotics illegally in the U.K. I have been told as the alternative was > not working. Yes, there were rumours about antibiotic abuse, but Ministry tests last year found no evidence. I think that to say 'Many are using antibiotics illegally in the U.K.' is a bit sweeping - and probably incorrect! The alternative (that had only limited success) was the previous method of treatment (i.e. burn if over 50% larvae infected, treat with OTC otherwise). However, trials of the new shook swarm treatment (shake on to clean foundation, feed OTC, burn old comb) is working very well and will be tried without the OTC this year. There are also trials of a new treatment using Paenibacillus larvae ssp. pulvifaciens to fight EFB that is also showing considerable promise. The use of antibiotics (presumably OTC) to try to control EFB seems futile because the antibiotic does not kill the bacteria - it is a bacteriostat, not a bacteriocide. Its only action is to prevent the bacteria from multiplying and give the bees a chance to clean out the infection (presumably the more hygienic the bees the better they would do it). Very often the infection reappears when the antibiotic treatment stops. Of course, you can keep pumping in antibiotic if you wish ... (unless you live in the UK). Robin said: >Bee Inspectors carry a tub >of water and scrub hive tool, gloves and smoker between opening hives. It >is practical for hobbyists who have high personal standards of hygiene but >would be too time consuming for professional beekeepers. As a semi-professional beekeeper, I cannot agree with this one! My view is that most professional beekeepers, in common with other farmers, set very high standards and have a great deal of knowledge. In contrast, many hobby beekeepers have very little knowledge of basic bee biology and even less about hygiene when handling colonies. Incidentally, the 'water' is actually soda solution (1kg washing soda to 5 litres of water with a dash of washing up liquid to act as a wetting agent). I also use this solution and wear rubber household gloves with disposable latex gloves over them; my hive tools live in the solution and a clean one is used for each hive; gloves are washed in the solution after each hive. The disposable gloves (£1.50 per 100) are discarded after each apiary. It takes very little time, hive tools are always clean and a pleasure to use, the gloves are more sting proof than leather and no infection is spread between colonies or apiaries. Robin also said: >Even if resistant bees were introduced, all infected equipment would still >need to be destroyed as it apparently remains infectious for at least 40 years and not all bees will >be of new resistant If the bees are resistant, why will some not be resistant? AFB (which forms spores) has been quoted as being able to survive for at least 70 years, but I do not recall seeing any survival times quoted for the non spore-forming EFB. Are you confusing EFB and AFB? Someone (Bob?) suggested the there could be a geographic influence. This is certainly the case in the UK where almost all EFB and AFB is confined to the southern half of the country, especially the south east: http://www.csl.gov.uk/prodserv/cons/bee/diseasemaps/maps.cfm?CFID=286379&CFT OKEN=23318769 Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 22:19:14 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Varroa Resistance to Apistan Robin said: > Peter Edwards said: >I now find that with my thymol (only) treatment > (details on the website), > > varroa levels are so low that there seems little point in monitoring.< > > It is becoming clearer from this list that experience depends on whether u > keep bees close to other beekeepers and feral colonies or are isolated Just for the record I have bees in 22 apiaries and there are many other beekeepers in this area. Not so sure about feral colonies - my view is that they were all killed by varroa and we are now seeing the sites inhabited by escaped swarms - which then die out - are replaced by more escaped swarms and so on. Should we define these as feral? Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 22:42:22 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Varroa Resistance to Apistan Comments: To: max.watkins@vita-europe.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 In message , Max Watkins writes >Resistance can be incorrectly diagnosed - as an example there was one >beekeeper a few years back who claimed resistance to Bayvarol (another >pyrethroid treatment) as he had put the strips in his colony and very few >mites fell. On close examination the hive was found to contain no mites - ie >a very low infestation, not resistance! Was the colony followed up for the opposite - bee "resistance" to mites? We seem to be quick to disempower ourselves. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 22:44:41 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Varroa Resistance to Apistan In-Reply-To: <200305200026.h4K0PIaX007353@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200305200026.h4K0PIaX007353@listserv.albany.edu>, Tim Vaughan writes >To treat just one hive or two will just result >in reinfecting the hives you treat now a few months after treatment. That's the fantasy. How about re-queening the fast build-up colonies with daughters of the slow build-up ones. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 22:40:06 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Varooa resistance to Apistan In-Reply-To: <008301c31dcf$dc1e12a0$ed82bc3e@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <008301c31dcf$dc1e12a0$ed82bc3e@oemcomputer>, Christine Gray writes >Monitoring only >a selection of hives in an apiary can miss the odd one with above-average >infestation, which increases spread of Varooa. And those that have a lower than usual build-up. I am rearing queens and drones from a small selection of colonies with low mite counts even though the usual autumn treatments was delayed. I have two as yet untreated. I am hopeful of greater things to come. > Monitoring can only >become more necessary as resistant mites spread and we have to start using a >range of carefully-timed methods for Varooa control - unless of course a >new super 'silver bullet' appears , returning us to the golden age when all >we have to do is insert an annual treatment at a fixed time. I prefer the "holy grail" the mite tolerant bee. Let's all work together for this. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 22:21:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Hived swarm had other ideas Robin said: > The more trouble it is > however the less I feel inclined to spend my time at my risk for most often > a poor lot of bees. I think we collect swarms as a service - certainly not for gain! Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 20:53:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Richard Goetze Subject: Re: Sick Bumblebees Your picture looks like dysentery to me. But, you need to have the bees examined. A bee lab tech should be able to diagnose the problem after examining a few bees. There are -- at least -- two endoparasites that are a problem with Bumbles: Nosema bombi (infects the epithelial cells of the midgut) and Crithidia bombi (because each intact parasite has a flagellum, I think it likes the lumen of the gut. A zoonotic trypanosomiasis like Chagas come to mind...ouch). Or, perhaps a Malpighamoeba sp. may be the problem. If the bees are suffering from amoebic dysentery, you'll notice a very odd odour from the feces quite unlike anything you have experienced before. Nosema is devastating, especially to individual Bumbles (the course of the disease is much the same as in Honeybees). But, strong colonies often survive. Crithidia is less virulent but has many subtle ways, more of interest to evolutionary biologists. There are a few papers on Bumble dysentery worth reading. Schmid-Hempel is one investigator interested in endoparasites in Bumbles with an eye to testing evolutionary theory regarding parasite virulence and insect 'immune response' (my interest). I like to read anything with Schmid-Hempel as one of the authors -- just because! Fascinating stuff if you're interested in evolutionary theory. Papers with Brown or Shykoff as authors are very good, too. I'd like to know how your case turns out. Oh, try e-mailing Dr Brown at mabrown@tcd.ie at University of Dublin Trinity College. He's interested in Bumble poop. From this North American's point of view, he's so close to you e-mailing seems extreme. Try shouting. We yodel. Best regards, RG :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 20:59:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Varroa Resistance to Apistan << In message <200305200026.h4K0PIaX007353@listserv.albany.edu>, Tim Vaughan writes >To treat just one hive or two will just result >in reinfecting the hives you treat now a few months after treatment. That's the fantasy. How about re-queening the fast build-up colonies with daughters of the slow build-up ones. >> One could do that if one is willing to forget several normal harvests. But I don't have any philosophical or religious hang-ups with using chemicals. I treat once a year for mites, and I get lots of honey. I don't believe that Varroa resistance will out pace technology. Not that I disagree with selective breeding, indeed I practice it, especially with gentleness. But one of the problems that those of us on the front line facing AHB is that we are under very real pressure to keep our bees gentle, and that is my priority. In the mean time, I use chemicals to keep the mites under control, and they work fine. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 09:08:43 +0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Detchon Subject: Re: Sick Bumblebees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [BEE-L] Sick Bumblebees I checked out the photograph posted by Peter Edwards, at www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/Images/SickBumblebees.jpg and wonder if maybe the yellow stuff is egg yolk from a broken egg? It certainly doesn't look like any insect dysentery I've ever witnessed, although we don't have bumblebees here. Peter Detchon (Western Australia) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::