From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:40:03 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-83.3 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C38E48ED1 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:40:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDdDJf012145 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:40:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:40:02 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0307C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 140833 Lines: 2897 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:24:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 13 Jul 2003 to 14 Jul 2003 (#2003-195) In-Reply-To: <200307150401.h6F2Xa7D006211@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 7/14/03 23:00, Dr. Edwin Geels wrote: > wondering if this will cause too much buildup of moisture in the inside > of the hive during the winter? That might be the case if you had poor air circulation in the hive. I'm not sure where you are located so will give you my experience of years ago. I ran about ten hives just north of Indianapolis, Indiana for about four years. At that time we had not even envisioned screened bottom boards so had the traditional setup. I slightly modified that by inserting 3/4" blocks at the four corners of the inner cover so as to lift up the outer cover by that 3/4". In the four years that I ran those hives I never lost a colony, let alone lost one during winter. Granted, the weather was not the severe cold that you get up in Michigan, Wisconsin, or Minnesota, but we did have some spells of pretty cold weather and the increased ventilation didn't seem to hurt the colonies at all. I think with increased ventilation, even in winter, you won't have to worry about the buildup of moisture within the hive. Mike Located 1/2 way between Montgomery and Mobile. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:42:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Garrett M Martin Subject: Re: Hive Body Jig MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Finding reasonably priced lumber can be difficult depending on your location. I would suggest looking for a company that specializes in selling lumber to commercial contractors. I find that these companies can sell cheaper than what our local lumber mills can sell green lumber for. Your local lumber yard will always be more expensive because they do not move the volume. The national chain stores such as Lowes may have volume and good prices but quality is terrible. Garrett Martin Willets Lake Apiaries Nappanee, IN USA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:51:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dennis Murrell Subject: Small Cell Bees in a Topbar Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings Everyone, It's been awhile since I posted any small cell hive updates. My small cell hives have continued to perform as I have reported in the past with no mite buildup, great overwintering and spring buildup. Different races/selections of bees did equally well when established on small cell comb. But lots of questions have been raised by my experience with small cell. If the size of the cell could make such a dramatic difference in colony health, what other aspects of comb structure could be important? Watching what the bees do by themselves seemed to be a good starting point. And as suggested by Allen Dick, way back when small cell was first discussed on Bee-L, putting small cell bees in a topbar hive could yield some answers. So Barry, another beekeeper in the Chicago area, and I did just that. We transferred bees that had been exclusively on small cell comb into topbar hives and watched what the bees did for themselves. Because of the climate differences between Chicago and Casper, Wyoming, Barry got about a 2 week head start. My bees were generic Italian - Carniolan mutts and Barry's were Lus bees. The results were quite unexpected. In both cases the bees started by building typical large cell size comb. In my hive that's about 5.3mm. Barry's bees did the same thing. The dynamics of how the bees utilized the space in the topbar hive as the colony needs and food availability changed was quite interesting. At times the bees would expand comb building more horizontally, then suddenly shift and fill comb vertically. It quickly became apparent that comb building was much more complicated than I had anticipated. The nest was not as random a structure as I thought. The bees were able to effectively utilize the space and put what kind of cells and comb just where they wanted them. If food resources or other colony needs like producing drones before swarming changed the comb building priorities, the bees would shift the comb building activity to a different location and then return later to finish work that had been started in other areas. When some small cell starter strips were placed in the hive, the bees quickly reworked them into drone size comb. They knew what they wanted and where they wanted it. How they could know this is an interesting question to think about. :>) After 5 weeks and in the middle of a sweet clover flow, the bees returned and finished building comb vertically in an area of the hive. Small cell size comb was constructed! Those combs that initially were drawn at 5.3mm near the top of the comb had cell sizes that gradually tapered to 4.8mm toward the bottom of the comb. Interesting! Well, if you've read this far, your eyes could be as tired as my fingers. So I will continue with additional posts later. :>) I have prepared a very simple web page at: www.geocities.com/usbwrangler/confessions/confessions.htm It's not very fancy and may put you to sleep if you like lots of bells and whistles. But it has some interesting pictures of my topbar hive and comb Barry has posted some of his shots at: http://www.beesource.com/eob/althive/birkey/index.htm Regards Dennis :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:39:07 +0200 Reply-To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Apimondia Slovenia in about one month. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear fellow beekeepers! In about a month the Apimondia in Slovenia takes place! I will participate and bring with me about 50 CD's with my beekeeping software. On the CD I have about 300MB space, so if you have something you want to share with the world, then I invite you to send it to me, and I will burn it on the CD along with the other stuff I have. Everything related to beekeeping is of interest. I am still interested in meeting people from Bee-L, so if you are participating then please e-mail me and I will see if I can organize a place to meet, like we did in Vancouver BC Best regards Jorn Johanesson Multilingual software for beekeeping since 1997 Multilingual hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software home page = HTTP://apimo.dk e-mail apimo@apimo.dk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:09:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Bogansky,Ronald J." Subject: Handholds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, Interesting comments on cutting handholds and the perspective of a commercial operator (Bob) and his dislike of additional nailed on handholds vs., a smaller operation (jim) and his recommendation for them. Sorry Bob I am in Jim's corner on this one. A lot of commercial operators have boom cranes and other lifting devices that are almost never used in smaller operations. The fact that used equipment may ultimately end up in a commercial operation is not a enough good reason for not modifying the pathetic grips that we refer to as "handholds". Keep your hatchet handy, but don't chop your finger off. :-) One of the smartest and best modification you can make to existing or new equipment is to add some sort of additional grip in the handhold area. Calling the grooves that are cut into the sides of boxes handholds is like calling a chopstick a baseball bat. At best you can only get your finger tips inside to do the lifting and carrying. Regardless of the size a full honey super weighs too much to carry with finger tips. And it is only because we do not do this regularly that there are not injuries galore. If it slips you can rip off a fingernail or drop it on your foot, among other possible calamities. It is not just your fingertips that are strained using the existing handholds. It can affect you hand, wrist and even your back. My favorite modification is a 3/4" X 3/4" X 6" strip, GLUED and nailed above the existing handhold. This small modification completely changes the way you grip the super. I only use two on each box, on the short side. I rarely find my self lifting using the long sides. A full length strip would be better but I make mine from small scraps of lumber. I guarantee if you try lifting two supers of equal weight, one with the modification and one without, you will be amazed at the difference. I once heard Steve Tabor say that we are keeping bees in the same equipment for the past 100+ years. He is correct, of course, maybe with the exception of plastic foundation. If every industry followed this pattern we would be moving bees in wagons and trains, eating dried or canned veggies all winter long, and the only way we could be reached is if someone yells loud enough or comes looking for us. (Maybe the last one isn't so bad.) Doing things like this simple modification may make beekeeping a little more enjoyable and easier on your body. You may stay in it a little longer and possibly outlast some of your equipment. Then Bob won't have to be busy removing those darn slats. Take care, Ron (Believes using full depth equipment for honey supers should be illegal.) Ron Bogansky Kutztown, (eastern) PA, USA + :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:49:44 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Lavender Pollen I was asked the other day about the colour of lavender pollen loads and must admit that I did not know - not enough lavender in the garden for the honeybees to work it. Pollen looks to be orange-yellow, but someone suggested that the loads are a sort of brick red (like horsechestnut). Dorothy Hodges does not list it in 'Pollen Loads of the Honeybee'. Can anyone help? Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:00:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: Painting Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Glad to hear we have some paint experts in the group. Soooo, let me ask > Derk and Todd their opinion on using nothing but white stain on wood treated > (soaked and dried) in Copper Quinolate or Copper Napthinate. I live in West > Texas with an average rain fall of 15 - 17 inches a year. > > Thanks > (West Texas) Mark > I usually run away from the label of "expert", but I'll share my 2.5 cents worth :) Exterior stain is generally thinned, self priming paint, found in two main classes: semi transparent, and solid (opaque). Oil based semi-transparent stains will penetrate well, but due to their lack of pigments, are not very long lived finishes. They need to be renewed much more often than paint. Solid stains can be found in either oil or latex formulations. Their higher pigmentation makes both longer lived than semi-transparent, but neither will hold up long term as well as paint. The primary advantage of solid stain is that it is self priming. As I stated before, however, sand first if you plan to use acrylic latex stains or paints (or use rough lumber). I've never used copper quinolate, but I have used copper napthenate. It's a bit oily, so if you want to use water based stain, best let it weather a bit (a week or so helps a lot). I've never had a peeling problem when used this way (althugh some green tint may creep through the finish). FWIW - for above ground use, zinc napthenate is more paint friendly, and less toxic. I've often used 100% acrylic latex solid stain to good effect on posts and trim (light colors especially). It works very well on rough lumber. I should think that it would work fine on beehives, and save you the step of priming. Overall, I don't think that stain can quite compare to a properly primed and topcoated finish for longevity, but the omission of priming makes it an attractive option. Hope this helps. Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:43:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Painting Hives In-Reply-To: <001701c34b9a$34510e80$59ad72d8@SOD> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:00 AM 7/16/03 -0400, you wrote: > The primary advantage of solid stain is >that it is self priming. Any thoughts on using latex stains as a primer? I can get both mixmixed latex stain, and good latex paint (often the normally $30/gal paint) from home depot, sears or other places for $5/gal (Though last week I picked up a 5gal bucket for $5 :) I've been using stain as a primer for two years now. Seems to hold up just fine, but 2 years isn't a really good test. Anyone else doing the same? -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:19:22 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: Painting Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The wood we use in our hives may have bugs on the surface. If you have ever itched after assembling your new wood boxes, it most likely was from very small bugs. I use bugs which to me implies that you can see them. This is not so you need a microscope. Whatever they are there and to me it is important in that "IF THE BUGS WON'T EAT IT I DON'T WANT IT." This means that they are living and so will I. Age old survival of the rulers by having someone else taste their food. When you place new frames and boxes into a hive the wood has a nice new appearance and very light in color. Bees will take care of their own is it is not treated, poisoned, and/or sealed. When you have a large enough population in a hive within a couple of visits the wood will have a darker color. How they get this covering, propulas, into every little corner is like the "Midis Touch." Beekeepers always have propulas on there hands it coats evenly and will kill bacteria, fungus, and virus. Propulas will seal the hot water in trucks radiator, coat metal parts in the trucks oil, and work as latch lubricant. Inside the hive it is what makes the pure natural sterile area for the production of the only food "That Will Last Forever ." Simply put it coats the virus, bacteria, or fungus with a coating like we do for making a pill of toxins. The debree that you add to the walls like paint work on the footing holds of a bee and give the small hive beetle the advantage of movement. I can go on with other problems like toxins in the hive, but I would like this to be positive information. The corners where the wax worms, roach eggs, beetle larvae and whatever are lain is the area that needs our attention. Glue sealing this with an edge that the bees can help in the removal or prevention of the whatever. It also leaves the water out and the beetles no place to hide. Gluing to hold the wood together, water sealing, and less buggy problems is a must. The use of a propane hand held torch does not mark up the inside or open the corners. Ants are much less a problem and the propulas coating is not destroyed by the heat. Burl wax is melted and adds to the coating. Mites in the wood are killed by the temperature of the torch and not smoke. The torch will also keep the hive in its normal air of production of honey. Smoking stops as the bees are to full to sting or work for that day. Weekly smoking with a loss of one days production would mean a 1/6 increase in production directly to the storage of honey. Seal the outside sure but leave the inside to the bees. Michael Housel Orlandobee :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:17:21 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Small Cell Bees in a Top Bar Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 16/07/03 05:03:22 GMT Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: << We transferred bees that had been exclusively on small cell comb into topbar hives >> Dennis, How wide are the bars? Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:47:47 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Painting Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Todd wrote > FWIW - for above ground use, zinc napthenate is more paint friendly, and less toxic. Remember that if you use zinc naphthenate instead of copper naphthenate as the preservative you need twice the concentration of zinc naphthenate. For example here in Australia we use 1% copper for treatment of bee hive components. For zinc naphthenate you need 2%. This is because zinc is not as good a fungicide as copper. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:45:12 +0200 Reply-To: Derek Steed Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Derek Steed Subject: Re: Painting Hive Bodies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ed, I would expect condensation to form on these internal wall surfaces and drain to the floor.If open meshed it will of course run through, if not its useful to have a slight slope to the front so water cannot accumulate.Condensation tends to happen whether painted internally or not. I leave the two outer brood combs out ( Dadant 12-comb, single broodbox ) in winter to help air circulation remove moisture.I have never painted hive interiors, apart from floors.Some people here paint hive interiors with alcoholic propolis solutions, after all, the bees coat interior walls with propolis anyhow which may well have bactericidal / fungicidal properties.I am sure that open mesh floors help air circulation in winter.Whenever I give the bees the choice of top ventilation in winter by placing wire mesh over the feedhole ( my roofs have vents ) they always block it completely with propolis so I gave up and donīt use top ventilation: I havenīt lost an overwintering colony yet.I presume that condensation is also a function of internal wall temp, the higher this is the more water the air can transport, this infers that badly insulated walls will promote condensation in winter.My walls are 22mm thick of a light firwood ( Weymuthkiefer ) with two external coats of Holzlasur ( this seems to be woodstain in the USA ). I wonder if polystyrene hives with better insulation give similar problems.I once measured winter air temps in Dadant wooden hives just over the cluster. It was usually at least 6°C even when the outside temp was much lower. Derek Steed :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:59:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: beekeeper Organization: none Subject: Mite Fall Comments: To: Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I need some advice. I have a hive that built up very well this spring in spite of the winter we had. One of 2 that survived. This hive is still going strong, but because of obligations last fall was not treated for mites. It has been nearly 2 years(Oct. 2001 Apistan came out before winter). I thought it best to do 24 hour mite fall check. The hive is on screen over a bottom board. I put a Penn. State Grid in last night and pulled it tonight. The natural fall calculated at 12 mites in 24 hours. I expected many more. I did check some drone brood in burr comb when I supered but only found a couple total and only one per cell. Do I: 1. Pull supers and treat now. 2. Let them go until next month when I would normally pull honey then treat. 3. Pull honey as usual and not treat and see if perhaps they are resistant. I see no indication shriveled wings. The hive was originally from a package about 4 years ago that has requeened itself several time-twice due to my clumsiness, once due to a move. I would appreciate any advice. Coleene :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:47:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: Painting Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Any thoughts on using latex stains as a primer? > > I've been using stain as a primer for two years now. Seems to hold up just > fine, but 2 years isn't a really good test. Anyone else doing the same? > > -Tim > Sounds like a good idea to me. I'd try it. My suspicion is that latex stain is actually a better primer than topcoat anyway, so topping it with latex paint should work well. Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:10:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: Painting Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Housel said: > The wood we use in our hives may have bugs on the surface. If you > have ever itched after assembling your new wood boxes, it most likely was from > very small bugs. Interesting. I work with many different kinds of wood for a living, and don't recall ever seeing "very small bugs" in that context. Could you be more specific? Are you sure it's not the sawdust that dries your skin and makes you itch? > The debree that you add to the walls like paint work on the footing > holds of a bee and give the small hive beetle the advantage of movement. I can > go on with other problems like toxins in the hive, but I would like this to be > positive information. snip > Seal the outside sure but leave the inside to the bees. I think that the majority of those speaking of painting hives were referring to the outside, not the inside. I don't use anything inside the hive, and have some woodenware that is just raw wood. So far, the only major difference seems to be some warpage in the unpainted stuff, although I'm sure that it will rot faster over time. I have noticed my roughsawn top bar hives are generating a lot of "frass" from bees chewing off the rough grain inside the hive - smoothing it to their tastes, as it were. It's kind of like pillow stuffing. They apparently like wood a little smoother than roughsawn. > The torch > will also keep the hive in its normal air of production of honey. Smoking > stops as the bees are to full to sting or work for that day. Weekly smoking with > a loss of one days production would mean a 1/6 increase in production > directly to the storage of honey. Say again? Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:34:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: Small Cell Bees in a Topbar Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dennis said: > The dynamics of how the bees utilized the space in the topbar hive as the > colony needs and food availability changed was quite interesting. At > times the bees would expand comb building more horizontally, then > suddenly shift and fill comb vertically. > > It quickly became apparent that comb building was much more complicated > than I had anticipated. The nest was not as random a structure as I > thought. The bees were able to effectively utilize the space and put what > kind of cells and comb just where they wanted them. If food resources or > other colony needs like producing drones before swarming changed the comb > building priorities, the bees would shift the comb building activity to a > different location and then return later to finish work that had been > started in other areas. I've been making the same observations in my TBH's. Some patterns that have evolved seem to mirror what I've seen in older Langstroth combs. In particular, smaller (worker/honey) cells seem to be drawn first (at the top), and as the comb nears completion (vertically) there tends to be a band of drone cells toward the bottom. When the drones vacate the cells, they seem to be filled with honey shortly thereafter. The drones and drone cells seem to be of slightly larger size than my Langstroths (?). I haven't noticed any difference in worker size, though now I will pay a bit more attention. I've also noticed that my TBH's draw very straight comb (much straighter than my Langstroth's on foundation). I have laid down under my TBH's and watched through the varroa screen - fascinating. The way the bees draw comb seems quite different than with foundation. Rather than working in a narrow vertical mass between sheets of foundation, they tend to form a large ball, covering three or four top bars at a time, working vertically. The shape of the emerging combs is like bleachers; staggered in size with age & development. It also seems that the bees will draw comb more willingly from a top bar as opposed to foundation (although that may be my imagination). In all, the TBH comb building seems much more logical and orderly than on foundation. My thinking here is that the bees can communicate much more easily without sheets of foundation in the way. I read warnings about not letting the queen get "honey bound", so early in the season manipulated two of my four TBH's, inserting open top bars between the brood nest and the first obvious honeycomb. After a month, I can see no difference in colony size between those manipulated, and those not. In fact, it appears that the hives that I have "left the hell alone" seem to be doing a little better than those I've routinely inspected, etc. The bees seem to know much better than I where everything belongs... Regards, Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:40:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathleen Darrell Subject: Re: Varroa Thresholds In-Reply-To: <002e01c339e7$13fa5f70$93ad72d8@SOD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 08:25 PM, Todd wrote: > If we don't try to arrive at some sort of simple, systematic way of > interpreting mite counts, then those who bother with bottom screens and > detector boards are essentially estimating mite levels in terms like "I > don't see any", "There's some", "Hmmmmm...", and "Oh Sh**..." > > Hi Todd & all I'm catching up on my Bee-L mail after being in Ireland so some of what I'm saying may have been covered. I have done bi-weekly 24 hr mite drops with full bottom screens for several years, and only treat when the count gets to my threshold. Tibor Szabo suggested to me that a count of 40 is a good time to treat. I used this threshold for a while but found that often a count of 10-15 today will be above 40 in two weeks. I find that through May & June counts remain low (0-2), in some hives rising to 8-10 through the honey flow(mid July to early August) then taking off to 30-50 in mid August. Other hives hold at low levels(0-2) all season, while still others climb to mid(8-10) levels and hold there for the remainder of the season. I still treat at the 40 level but use previous counts as a guide to predict when a given hive will hit it. I sometimes do mid-term tests to help catch the hives that are taking off exponentially. I don't do spring treatments of formic acid as recommended here in Ontario. I do use formic or apistan in the summer(removing the honey supers) on only the hives hitting the threshold. After speaking to one of the presenters at Niagara in December I now plan to treat only threshold hitting hives this fall. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 80W44N :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:45:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Cara &Tom Patterson Subject: update on Aurora Colorado beekeeping ordinance Comments: To: Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, BiologicalBeekeeping@yahoogroups.com, beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, Organicbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I know there are a few people interested in the continuing saga of the Aurora Colorado beekeeping ordinance so here is the latest update. The proposed ordinance was presented to the city council in study session on July 14, 2003. The city council agreed to send it on to a council meeting scheduled for July 21, 2003. At that meeting there will be an opportunity for public comment and the council will vote. It appears there is a strong majority of the council in favor of the ordinance and it is expected to pass. I am currently interested in getting names of beekeepers in and around Aurora that would be willing to take swarm calls from the city. Animal control estimates they get about 60-75 swarm calls each year. If you are interested in knowing more about this or know a beekeeper in the area who might be please contact me by email. If all goes as expected I will post a copy of the ordinance next week. Tom Patterson :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:23:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: Painting Hive Bodies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm no beekeeping expert, but I can't see any benefit from coating the inside of the hive with anything. The bees seem to know exactly what to do with the hive interior, so why not take advantage of their labor & expertise? It's also worth mentioning that bees will "clean" the hive interior, removing bits of paint and such from the hive wall. Some of that is bound to wind up in your honey. Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:52:49 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dennis Murrell Subject: Re: Small Cell Bees in a Topbar Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Todd and Everyone, >I've been making the same observations in my TBH's.... I haven't noticed any difference in worker size, though now I will pay a bit more attention. I'm a small cell beekeeper and thought I could easily spot the different cell sizes. With foundation the bees make all kinds of transitional cells but not so in the tbh. The comb is taper so gradually that I initially missed it. >I have laid down under my TBH's and watched through the varroa screen - fascinating. Now that's neat! But I bet my wife would think I was sleeping :>) Humm, might be a good place to get an undisturbed nap. :>) >The way the bees draw comb seems quite different than with foundation. Rather than working in a narrow vertical mass between sheets of foundation, they tend to form a large ball, covering three or four top bars at a time, working vertically. The shape of the emerging combs is like bleachers; staggered in size with age & development. Same, observations. Yet the bees can change their focus from a more horizontal approach to a more vertical approach and still maintain the nest organization in three dimensions. >It also seems that the bees will draw comb more willingly from a top bar as opposed to foundation (although that may be my imagination). It's not your imagination. I have tried to get small cell foundation drawn and it's a pain at best. Large cell foundation is really quite easy to get drawn by comparison. But when the bees do it by themselves in my tbh, it makes the large cell foundation look as hard to get drawn out as is the small cell by comparison. Others have reported the same. >After a month, I can see no difference in colony size between those manipulated, and those not. In fact, it appears that the hives that I have "left the hell alone" seem to be doing a little better than those I've routinely inspected, etc. The bees seem to know much better than I where everything belongs... My humbling experience also. I coming to the conclusion that if we managed our cars like we manage our bees, routinely pulling the engine apart, and exchanging or rotating parts, there would be alot of dead or poorly running cars. Yet I bet it's alot easier to understand the workings of a car that man built than it is to understand the biology of a bee. Regards Dennis Regards, Dennis. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:18:32 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dennis Murrell Subject: Small Cell Bees in a Top Bar Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chris, >How wide are the bars? I used 1 1/4". After 15 bars the bees are off about 1/8" toward the rear of the hive. Regards Dennis :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:17:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Janet Montgomery Subject: Re: Painting Hives MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Stains are usually very similar to paints but have LESS binder so a weaker film is produced. This is an advantage where wood is likely to have significant moisture migrating form the back to the outside as in "natural" wood siding. No problem should exist IF stains are used as a top coat also. But if you seal the stain with a regular latex or worse an oil paint, it will trap moisture behind the outer film and will cause problems. Also with the heavier pigment loading in stains and lower binder content you will have the same effect if you paint over a chalky surface. If it were me, I would buy the best latex primer and then topcoat with a good latex, or if you prefer, then use the stain. Dan Veilleux In the mountains of NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:04:28 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: waldig@NETZERO.COM Subject: Tree Colony Removal. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I have a homeowner who has an established honeybee colony 30 ft up in an oak tree. The colony's entrace hole is less than 3 in. in diameter - I can't get my hand inside. The combs start 10 - 12" from the entrance. Judging by the brownish color of the wax and the traffic at the entrance, it's the colony's at least second season in the tree. The homeowner wants the colony dead/removed NOW. I can bee vac most of the bees coming and going at the entrance and within the first few inches inside. Then, I can seal the entrance with expandable polyurethane foam to satisfy the homeowner. But I wish there was a way to remove the combs and the rest of the bees. Any suggestions? The tree can't be cut down nor is enlarging the entrance hole an option. I can't put a mesh cone over the entrance and give the returning bees an alternative hive. Does anyone know of any clever, flexible manipulators that I can use to extract the combs chunk by chunk? If I clear the hole of comb, I can insert my bee vac tube deeper and catch most of the bees? The homeowner has a right not to be a 'beehaver' but I hate sealing a tree and sentencing the colony to a slow death. Also, are there any second-hand, endoscope-type instruments available to light & look inside a tree colony? Any tips, suggestions, advice, ideas will be appreciated!! Waldemar Long Island, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:01:57 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: Tree Colony Removal. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Take a look at kitchen gadgets. I have used a small spatula to extend my reach and as a cutting tool. Also, salad tongs in varying lengths gives you more reach and movabilty. Good luck and let me know how it turns out! Kathy Cox, Northern California, Italian, 18 hives :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:41:57 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ed Costanza Subject: Re: Tree Colony Removal. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, Removing bees is part of my job as a pest control specialist. I get calls like this from time to time and there is no easy solution other than killing the hive. Before starting a project like this I would first analyze the danger to the home owner and general public. If there is no risk, I would try to salvage as many bees as possible (if there is a monetary value in doing so). You could screen the front entrance and then return and capture the bees on the outside of the tree after dark. If you are able to locate the bottom of the trees cavity, you could drill a hole and inject some "Bee Go" (from Dadant and other suppliers) to drive out most of the bees. You could then remove the cluster of bees that forms on the outside of the tree. After you have taken all the bees you can get (I like to spray them with sugar water, then brush them into a screened box; a two piece apple box that you take broken down and tape up with duck tape when you get to the site works great), you can harvest the honey with any available utensils. After you have harvested all the honey and bees wax you can, you can then exterminate the balance of the bees in the tree with a mixture of water and dish soap. Probably the easiest way is to get an attachment (put out by Ortho) for a hose that will spray fertilizer and fill it up with a cheap liquid soap (like dawn) and then run the solution into the hole until you are sure all bees have died. This will kill the bees almost instantly. If you cannot reach all the voids where the bees are with the soapy water you will have to call an exterminator that has a specialized piece of equipment called a B & G Presure Duster to blow Drione dust into all the tree voids. The price range can cost you $125-300 (US dollars) Be careful what you do and say because in some states you must be registered as a pest control operator to exterminate bees even if you are using a non-pesticide such as liquid soap. I wish you well! Ed Costanza A-Bee Termite & Pest Control Albuquerque, NM :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:26:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Tree Colony Removal. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Waldemar, The homeowner wants the colony dead/removed NOW. What I would do. I doubt there is another beekeeper interested in the project. I doubt an exterminator is interested so you are in control Waldemar and *not* the homeowner. Decide on a course of action which will save the bees and tell the homeowner to take it or leave it. What could the bees be possibly hurting 30 feet high in a tree? Why not suggest the homeowner move and let a bee friendly person which appreciates bees move into the house ? Kidding! The only plan which seems reasonable is the screen funnel/ outside nuc plan to remove the bees. Be sure and tell the homeowner the expected rental cost of the boom truck. Enlarging the hole to hand size would seem necessary to remove comb but maybe others have got a few suggestions. Have you told the homeowner of the charges for the project yet? Might make the homeowner reconsider removing the bees from their happy home. Bob Ps. At times in spring I keep close to a hundred hives in my back yard. What's the fuss over one hive of honeybees thirty feet high in a bee tree? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:15:28 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Re: Tree Colony Removal. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why can't you screen cone them out? I do it all the time, just put up 2 this morning. This is the best way, no harm to the tree and the bees are out and not dead. Talk to the owner, reason with him. Lionel Evans :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:20:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Re: Tree Colony Removal. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Your not going to like this answer. Leave it and walk away. I hate to loose a swarm in a tree too. But its too high for safety sake. Why is it the homeowner wants them gone? If they're allergic I can understand that. But if they hate bees maybe they hate food too. But I don't recommended your life to remove anything. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:48:20 +0100 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit for AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter (Edwards), You mention that it is easy to diagnose AFB in the field. I suggest that for those who are used to seeing AFB in all its forms the chance of a correctly diagnosing is quite high. But, for those who may have limited experience - it is conversely, easy to confuse AFB with EFB and larval/pupal deaths due to viral infection associated with elevated V.d. mite levels. I would be most interested to read how you easily confirm AFB in the field - when the classic symptoms are not present. This might occur if only a few cells are infected. Granted, when advanced cases are seen, the presence of several stages of decay will help in indicating which disease is most probably the cause. Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:44:01 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Paul D. Law (aka Dennis)" Subject: Another use for honey: Tootsie Rolls MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Found another use for honey: making "Tootsie Rolls" http://waltonfeed.com/grain/y-rec/tootsie.html :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:54:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Tree Colony Removal. In-Reply-To: <7a.444939b6.2c487b1f@wmconnect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:20 PM 7/17/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Your not going to like this answer. Leave it and walk away. I hate to loose >a swarm in a tree too. But its too high for safety sake. To an extent I agree. If you aren't comfortable doing it, walk away. If you are, do it right, get a boom truck if necessary, give the homeowner an estimate (Don't underestimate the value of your time). If they won't pay, then walk away. I always hate to loose a swarm myself, but 'free' bees are far from free. -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:50:53 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: EU Concerns About "Residue Monitoring Plans"? The following was mentioned on the "Biobee list" as being reported in the US publication "Speedy Bee". As publications go, the "Speedy Bee" is anything but "speedy". For example, one can receive the "fall issue" in spring. I am surprised that it was mentioned nowhere else. Since it was mentioned nowhere else, I wonder if it is correct. Here is what the posting said [slightly edited to correct spelling]: "The European Union is banning the importation of honey from the United States over the failure of the United States to meet EU residue monitoring standards. In 2000, the EU gave provisional approval to countries shipping live animals and animals products to Europe. Those countries were given time to establish plans for monitoring certain substances and residues in their exports to EU countries. Now, the EU is in the final stages of amending its 2000 decision to reflect those countries and their products for which monitoring plans have been approved or not approved. On May 21, the EU Standing Committee voted to prohibit imports of U.S. honey because the U.S. Food and Drug Administrations (FDA) monitoring of residues in honey does not meet EU requirements. In the US, honey is the only animal product failing to make the approved list. Just two other products are being removed from the earlier listing: Aquaculture from Honduras and aquaculture from the Philippines. Several new products are being added to the approved list, including honey from Belize, Kenya, Latvia, Serbia and Montenegro, and South Africa. Honey imports are already permitted from most major honey exporting countries." I stumbled around the website for the EU (http://europa.eu.int), but found nothing. Not even a mention of ANY meeting on May 21, 2003. Can anyone confirm or refute this? Does anyone on Bee-L still subscribe to the "Speedy Bee"? jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:17:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Karen D. Oland" Subject: Re: Tree Colony Removal. In-Reply-To: <20030717.130432.3343.405800@webmail19.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Any suggestions? The tree can't be cut down nor is enlarging the > entrance hole an option. I can't put a mesh cone over the > entrance and give the returning bees an alternative hive. You might suggest they have an arborist look at the tree. With a colony inside, that means large empty space as well. It may be only a matter of time (and not a long time) before the tree has to be removed to prevent a hazard to the homeowner (while bees 30 feet up in the air are not, esp compared to having a large tree hit the house or a car). If the tree needs to be removed, no reason not to expand the opening and take the comb that way. If the bees can be removed over time, add an escape and capture the bees leaving the colony over the next few weeks. > The homeowner wants the colony dead/removed NOW. I can bee vac > most of the bees coming and going at the entrance and within the > first few inches inside. Then, I can seal the entrance with > expandable polyurethane foam to satisfy the homeowner. But I > wish there was a way to remove the combs and the rest of the bees. It is possible that adding the expanding insulation will help prevent rot in the tree and extend its life (that would be a study from after I tried to keep up in this field), but I really doubt it. What I have seen is that the hollow spot provides a weakness and when a large enough storm/wind drops by, the tree breaks in half (TN has had amply evidence of this lately, with extensive storm damage in several areas ... we were lucky in that we only had broken limbs CLOSE TO several buildings and thru the roof of one off site storage building .. others were not). When hurricane level rains come thru first, we see trees uprooted, but many times, the trees break in half at a weak spot in the main trunk rather than large limbs breaking off ... on did this and nearly hit our house about a year after we built, a 30" diameter trunk broken in half, many other trees nearby with no damage). Karen --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:23:59 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Mite Fall In-Reply-To: <004c01c34bf6$581deca0$b6e46742@cedavidson> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <004c01c34bf6$581deca0$b6e46742@cedavidson>, beekeeper writes >The natural fall calculated at 12 mites in 24 hours. I >expected many more. I did check some drone brood in burr comb when I >supered but only found a couple total and only one per cell. > 3. Pull honey as usual and not treat and see if > perhaps they are resistant. IMHO yes. I don't know how your bees perform in variable weather, so, unless the brood rearing has been interrupted and resumed, the low count seems to me well within acceptable limits. To follow the IPM approach wait until the level is at the predetermined limit. The problem seems to be deciding what this limit should be. If you test drone brood, do 100 if you can, and get the %. This might be a more appropriate indicator as it would less dependent on colony size. We have some "abnormally low" mite counts (like zero for example) and time will tell if this is an anomaly of the summer flow. Over here in the UK, you'd want 80 per day on the old level of 2500 mites in a typical colony (in the mid-season) and 30 per day on the more recently recommended level of 1000 before treating. The problem with any blanket treatment is that it hides the colonies with any varroa tolerance. The problem with not treating is missing sudden increases in mite numbers coming in from elsewhere, but you are monitoring, so you can wait, so long as you have a treatment ready for any time this happens. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:40:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Tree Colony Removal. In-Reply-To: <20030717.130432.3343.405800@webmail19.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:04 PM 7/17/03 +0000, you wrote: >Any suggestions? The tree can't be cut down nor is enlarging the entrance >hole an option. I can't put a mesh cone over the entrance and give the >returning bees an alternative hive. I would first try to remove as many bees as possible. Removing visable foragers is a start, but I would try to drive as many bees out of the hive as possible. I've had good luck heavily smoking a hive with honey robber in my smoker causing the bees to abscond. Just wad up some newspaper, get it wet with honey robber and place it in the top of the smoker. It took awhile of heavily smoking before bees stopped pouring out of the hive. I have tried to vacuum up as many as I can as they exit, but usually miss most of them and they settle nearby just like a swarm. In your case I'd probably attach a food long piece of metal pipe to the smoker so the smoke can be delivered directly in the hive. Just use a smaller diameter then the hold in the tree so the bees can get out. The last one I did took a good hour of smoking, and at least as much to settle on a tree (the just don't settle down as fast as a normal swarm) Getting the comb out intact sounds just about impossible. You may have to break it up with a long wire or flexible bar and wet/dry vac up what you can. It's bound to cause future problems without nearly complete removal even if it's sealed up. The more you can get out, the better. You might be able to break off chunks of comb and drag them out with one of those long grip things (I don't know what they are called, they are basically a flexible metal shaft about 2 foot long, with a claw on the end, and a plunger on the other end to open and close them. Should be available at most hardware stores.) A small mirror on a stick may also help (also sold at hardware stores). Another method of removing the bees I've read about, though never tried. Find the very top of the cavity and drill a hole. Plug up any other holes, then very, very, very slowly fill the cavity with water. The bees will move up and out, and sometimes you even get the queen. Sounds like it's going to be a tough job. -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:07:54 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Small Cell Bees in a Topbar Hive Dennis Murrell said: > My small cell hives have continued to perform as I have reported > in the past with no mite buildup, great overwintering and spring > buildup. Different races/selections of bees did equally well when > established on small cell comb. Decent resolution digital cameras are now cheap enough that anyone can afford one, ( http://shop.aiptek.com/?page=category&cat=1 ) so there is no excuse for not documenting one's findings with digital photos. While photos of sticky boards may seem boring, they can be powerful evidence if taken with good focus and with the board filling the frame. Photos of the number of bees one sees on top bars are only a vague indicator, but the point here is that anyone can at least gather decent "raw data" and back up claims that hitherto have been considered anecdotal or apocryphal. > the bees started by building typical large cell size comb. In my hive > that's about 5.3mm. Barry's bees did the same thing. > After 5 weeks and in the middle of a sweet clover flow, the bees > returned and finished building comb vertically in an area of the hive. > Small cell size comb was constructed! Those combs that initially were > drawn at 5.3mm near the top of the comb had cell sizes that gradually > tapered to 4.8mm toward the bottom of the comb. Again, photos (with a scale in frame) would be a help. > I coming to the conclusion that if we managed our cars like we manage > our bees, routinely pulling the engine apart, and exchanging or rotating > parts, there would be alot of dead or poorly running cars. Gee, Dad and I have been doing exactly that with a 1952 MG TD for several decades, and we have so many rally trophies and ribbons that the bulk of them have to stay packed in boxes to preserve domestic harmony. As for "inspecting" beehives, I think that one has to stop and ask oneself "what question will I answer?" "what is my goal?" before picking up a hive tool. My favorite "inspection procedure" is to simply take a walk with the dog by the hives, comparing entrance activity between hives and groups of hives. There's a lot one can verify by simply watching an entrance for a few minutes, and glancing at the accumulated build up of "junk" on a sheet of cardboard left under the varroa screen. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:34:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Tree Colony Removal. "Your not going to like this answer. Leave it and walk away." I agree. I'm a licensed Landscape Contractor and arborist and one thing about oaks is that they often have cavities inside, as has been said, but the cambium layer typically surround the hole so tightly that you can't get your hand in. I do subcontracting for one of the biggest tree companies in our area when they get a bee tree, and I almost always have to cut the tree or major limb down to get the bees. I alway enjoy it, as even though the honey has to be creamed because of sawdust etc..it fetches a premium with hard core health food types. I usually throw away most of the brood, as by the time you get it out it is so disturbed that the bees really can't rear them, but I like to save a couple eggs so I can honestly tell the client that there's a good chance I can give the hive a new home. About half the time (at least around here) they've got foul brood which is another reason to throw away the brood, and I quaranteen the new hive. Tim evergreenlandscaping.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:34:51 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Tree Colony Removal. Tim Arheit said: > Getting the comb out intact sounds just about impossible. You may have to > break it up with a long wire or flexible bar and wet/dry vac up what you > can. It's bound to cause future problems without nearly complete removal > even if it's sealed up. The more you can get out, the better. Here's another approach - live steam. Only to be used after the bees are out, but quick. It can assure near-complete removal of wax and honey without cutting. Drill a few holes to find the bottom of the nest cavity, and rent an electric wallpaper steamer, which has a long hose and a fairly small handheld nozzle at the end of the hose. A "pressure washer" might work just as well, but pressure washers that spray heated water are rare. Duct tape a garden hose to the machine so that it can refill the water tank. Plug an extension cord into the machine, but leave it unplugged from the outlet. Turn the machine "on". Hoist the steamer up in the tree with a rope and pulley, tie it off, and slide the steam hose (nozzle removed, perhaps) into the hole. Seal the hole with duct tape. Plug in the cord, which turns on the machine, and keep the water reservoir filled with the garden hose. Move the hose around a bit when the flow of melted stuff slows or stops. Extra points can be gained by driving a short length of copper pipe into the drilled hole, attaching some tubing, and collecting the melted wax and honey for later wax recovery. Hoisting collection containers up and down will be great fun. And I agree with everyone else. Given the conditions, removal of all (or even most) bees will take a screen cone, a suspended hive, and a patient approach. I am consistently surprised that cones do not result in a quicker evacuation, as one is cutting off the water supply to the bees, and their stores of liquid nectar have to be finite. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:58:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Layne Westover Subject: Re: Tree Colony Removal. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>> James Fischer said: I am consistently surprised that cones do not result in a quicker evacuation, as one is cutting off the water supply to the bees, and their stores of liquid nectar have to be finite. You forget the metabolic water that the bees produce themselves when they eat honey. Layne Westover :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:58:14 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: waldig@NETZERO.COM Subject: Re: Tree Colony Removal - Update. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>You might suggest they have an arborist look at the tree. With a colony inside, that means large empty space as well. It may be only a matter of time (and not a long time) before the tree has to be removed to prevent a hazard to the homeowner (while bees 30 feet up in the air are not, esp compared to having a large tree hit the house or a car). This is a rather nice-looking, healthy, sturdy oak tree. The entrance hole is where a trunk had once been sawed off. The tree is by a large swimming pool on the opposite side of the house. There really is no risk to people but the homeowner's wife won't use the swimming pool as long as the bees are there - the bees drink from the pool. In her words 'I can't deal with magnitudes' as in hundreds or thousands of flying bees. Well, although I am very passionate about honey bees and spread knowledge about them whenever I have a chance, I believe a homeowner has the right to live without them if they are causing him/her great psychological discomfort. [Just as I do not like raccoons that come and trash my fish pond from time to time (I trap them live and release them 30 miles away).] I believe not solving the 'problem' for a homeowner gives honeybees and beekeepers a bad reputation. By the way, I appreciate all the good advice I have received over the last couple of days here. I went over and did the job yesterday. I liked the idea of filling the tree with water to drive the bees out. Unfortunately, the entrance was at the base of the 'brood chamber.' I did not have Bee-Go, but I smoked the colony heavily. At first, the bees went for the honey but a few minutes later, they started coming out. I kept smoking and vacuuming for about 2 hours. I had to empty the box on my bee vac twice. I tried but could not get to the combs as they were about 10-12" deep and at 90 deg. up (I will look into the articulating tools, mentioned here, that mechanics use to lift bolts out of remote corners of cars). All in all, I think I captured about 4 lbs of bees (they are now in my hive). When there weren't anymore bees coming or flying in significant numbers and it got dark, I filled the hole with expandable polyurethane. I advised the owners to keep an eye on the hole and make sure it's always sealed. I regret I could not do a complete removal but I think the homeowners learned a lot about honey bees and came to appreciate them more. They still fear them - but hopefully less. Climbing to 30 feet. It's not for the faint-hearted and I would strongly discourage it if anyone is not sure how they would handle it. I have been climbing extension ladders since I was a kid. Most recently when I replaced windows in my 3rd story attic. Always remember to check the ladder's weight capacity (they come with different ratings!), set the ladder at the proper angle (you can use the fireman's rule - toes at the base of the ladder, arms fully extended and holding the ladder sides while you are standing perfectly straight), ensure the footing is flat & stable, and tie the top of the ladder to the tree if you can. Safety is paramount and no amount of bees is worth a broken limb or your life. I thank everyone again, Waldemar Long Island, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:35:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Tree Colony Removal - Update. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit waldig@NETZERO.COM wrote: > Well, although I am very passionate about honey bees and spread > knowledge about them whenever I have a chance, I believe a homeowner > has the right to live without them if they are causing him/her great > psychological discomfort. [Just as I do not like raccoons that come > and trash my fish pond from time to time (I trap them live and > release them 30 miles away).] I believe not solving the 'problem' > for a homeowner gives honeybees and beekeepers a bad reputation. This is a bit off topic, but I once removed varmints from my property and relocated them. That is until I learned that the reason I had so many problem animals was the animal control officer was releasing the ones caught in the city in our area of the country. When we move animals we only transfer the problem to someone else. Even in Maine, where there is lots of actual wilderness, you still have to go a fairly long way to not be in someone's back yard. Eventually one of those someones will kill the animal, if it is a true pest, and solve the problem. We destroy bad queens and even whole colonies, sometimes reluctantly, but we would never move the colony to someone else's neighborhood. Just think AHB. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:22:05 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit for AFB Peter (Dillon) questioned my statement that AFB is easy to diagnose accurately in the field. > I suggest that for those who are used to seeing AFB in all its forms the chance > of a correctly diagnosing is quite high. Not sure what you mean by 'all its forms'. My understanding is as follows: AFB affects only sealed brood, the larvae die under the cappings which then sink. Cappings may appear darker or greasy and will be perforated when the bees nibble a hole in them. At the sunken cappings stage the remains of the larvae become slimy and will 'rope' (the matchstick test); later they become tacky and dry to a scale which is difficult to remove. So, if we suspect AFB at the earliest possible stage, i.e. when there is just one cell affected, the capping must have changed in appearance (or we would not have noticed anything wrong) and a matchstick test should confirm our suspicions. If the disease has progressed further then there will be more cells in various stages so we have plenty of material on which to base our judgement. > But, for those who may have limited experience - it is conversely, easy to confuse AFB > with EFB and larval/pupal deaths due to viral infection associated with elevated V.d. mite > levels. EFB is a disease of unsealed brood and does not produce any of the symptoms of AFB, except for a general appearance of patchy or 'pepperpot' brood and, in a few cases, perforated cappings where the larva has died after capping (however, in these cases the remains will not 'rope' as with AFB). Whilst I might agree that EFB could be confused with larval deaths due to viral infection associated with elevated varroa levels, I know of none that cause the same symptoms as AFB. If anyone knows otherwise then it would be interesting to have that information. Even here, it is very easy to dissect a larva in the field to check the colour of the gut (EFB shows a white gut full of bacteria). > I would be most interested to read how you easily confirm AFB in the field - when the classic symptoms are not present. This might occur if only a few cells are infected. What symptoms would there be then? I would certainly agree that experience is useful. Mine is based on 3 cases of AFB in 1984 and a dozen or so of EFB from 2000 to 2002 - clear so far this year, touch wood! - but I have also attended many excellent courses run by our National Bee Unit (NBU) where it has been possible to handle many diseased combs, make microscope slides etc and talk to expert staff. However, my real point was that, in the demonstration that I watched, the test kit did not work until the third attempt - and, in my opinion, at Ģ5 per kit few beekeepers will want to test for AFB (and EFB if they are not sure?). Even fewer will run the test 3 times just to be sure (how many negative results do you need to be sure?), especially when it costs nothing to call out your Seasonal Bee Inspector who will provide free diagnosis and treatment. Of course, the most important task is to educate beekeepers so that they recognise when brood is not healthy and then ask for assistance if they are not sure about the cause. In the UK the NBU have taken a proactive step towards this by asking associations to appoint voluntary Disease Liaison Co-ordinators (DLCs), who have then been trained in disease recognition by the NBU and are able to offer advice to their local membership. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:42:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: beekeeper Organization: none Subject: Re: Tree Colony Removal - Update. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bad attitude. It sounds like all of the city folk who want to move to the country but get mad when the deer get into the garden or the prize roses! Remember, you are living in that animals living room with your bees, they are not living in yours. Talk to your animal control people about moving the animals they trap to more secluded areas. It isn't the animal's fault we are depleting their habitat with our houses, lawns and gardens! There are ways of dealing with the problem without killing the animal that is only trying to survive in their ever shrinking world! Coleene :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:48:17 -0600 Reply-To: ttownsen@telusplanet.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Townsend Organization: TPLR HONEY FARMS Subject: Re: Painting Hive Bodies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Todd wrote: >I'm no beekeeping expert, but I can't see any benefit from coating the >inside of the hive with anything. >I have to disagree, we dip all of our supers, lids and bottom boards. We have tried many things, but double boiled linseed oil is what we currently use. It depends on where you are, but here in Alberta, with outdoor wintering, we find it advantageous to protect the inside as well as the outside, due to moisture from the bees migrating through the wood to the outside and peeling paint. The linseed oil protects against any "moisture" damage in the broods and the honey supers. It does not interfere with the bees in any way. > Tim Townsend > > >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >-- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > > > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:26:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Smal cell bees in a top bar hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 18/07/03 05:03:04 GMT Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: Dennis, << >How wide are the bars? I used 1 1/4". After 15 bars the bees are off about 1/8" toward the rear of the hive. >> Over or under? Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:45:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit for AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter said: Even here, it is very easy to dissect a larva in the field to check the colour of the gut (EFB shows a white gut full of bacteria). While I agree that a white gut is a sure sign of a *problem* a white gut of a bee with nosema would be hard to tell apart in my opinion which is the reason I see little value in the above method except to give a general idea of a gut problem. Most EFB I find is easily seen (as pointed out by Peter Edwards) in the larva stage as opposed to the pupa stage as with AFB. I look for EFB first in the larva of the colony and not the gut of the bee. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:41:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: Pests [was tree colony removal update]. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Coleene said: > Bad attitude Sorry to add to an off topic thread, but I'd like to share what creates a "bad attititude". I have 30 laying hens, and one batch of brood which started with 8 chicks. I kept the chicks in a small coop. Three were eaten through the chicken wire where they slept, despite quite solid construction. One more was eaten when the critter ripped a board off the same structure, and we lost another one tonight, because we couldn't get home early enough to lock them in. This is most likely a raccoon. It doesn't eat the chick completely, just sort of mauls it and eats some, and leaves the rest. Nature at work: 3 out of 8 left alive. I'm not a relocated suburbanite. I'm quite aware of my relationship to the wild world around me - I have actually tried to grow most of my own food. I also understand having to protect that food source. At the first opportunity, I'm going to kill it dead. End of sermon. Todd. Living in the semi-wilds of Vermont, where we knows a pest when we sees 'em. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 02:38:26 -0600 Reply-To: Mathew Westall Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mathew Westall Subject: Re: Tree Colony Removal - Update. - & link to Beevac plans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Well, although I am very passionate about honey bees and spread knowledge about them whenever I have a chance, I believe a homeowner has the right to live without them if they are causing him/her great psychological discomfort. [Just as I do not like raccoons that come and trash my fish pond from time to time (I trap them live and release them 30 miles away).] I believe not solving the 'problem' for a homeowner gives honeybees and beekeepers a bad reputation. > Waldemar > Long Island, NY ========================== While I applaud your enthusiasm for helping honeybees it seems to me the "problem" you describe is by perspective. Perhaps the problem isn't really the honeybees making a home in the hollow of the tree - but rather the homeowner whom is upset with the honeybees sharing 'his' space. Attitude is everything. After all the honeybees didn't make the tree hollow - and likely made that tree survive longer by coating the inside with water repellant (WAX). I once found a tree hive with a round ~6" sheet of beeswax the bees had built to shed water from the knothole entrance. Very enterprising coexistence between the tree & the bees. Having spent my share of 'enthusiastic' bee-saving effort swinging from ladders into eves of houses or the side of a barn - I can safely say with experience that you're time was better spent calling a local pest agency for easier to remove beehives. Many agencies gladly forego their profit for some beekeeper to remove beehives. Finding ways to kill bees are easy but keeping them from coming back is a trick pest agencies usually don't perform. Enter the beekeeper - & there's room to make money on top of gaining the bees, wax & 100's of pounds of honey, provided you live in an area where you're allowed to profit from bee removals. But there are some dangerous bee missions you should "just say no" as the risks are too great. The removal you describe perfectly fits that description. You ended up with a few dollars of workers, some drones, no queen, no wax, no honey and risked life & limb on the guise of somehow saving the credibility of bees & beekeepers? Doesn't sound like a winning proposition. I'm guessing your enthusiasm added blinders to your effort. "Can-do" attitude is important but bees just aren't worth your life. DO call and collect other easy to reach bees. Despite Varroa there are still lots of hives to 'save' every year. For those that wish to join the effort, free bee plans for a beevac can be found at: http://www.beesource.com/plans/beevac/index.htm Matthew Westall - E-Bees - Castle Rock, CO (where the nectar flow hit last week and they're really putting it on.... & praying for rain) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 08:07:45 -0400 Reply-To: Buckner Lewis Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Buckner Lewis Subject: One gallon pails MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone in the Southeast have a source for 1 gallon plastic pails, with handles and dry fit recessed lids? My present source has dried up. These are used for feeder buckets. Thanks.. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:35:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Martin Subject: Bee environment, Metabolic water In-Reply-To: <200307190406.h6J3h04v009368@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >You forget the metabolic water that the bees produce themselves when they eat honey. > >Layne Westover Do you have any sources you could reference for me? I am interested in how much the bees are dependant on their environment, versus their ability to prosper independent of their environment. This metabolic water you mentioned is part of the question of their dependence. Tom Martin Service provided by eMypeople.net The Safe E-mail E-mail service without the internet Custom filtering, Anti virus protection, Contact helpdesk@emypeople.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 21:01:57 +0100 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit for AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter, Thanks for your reply to my points and questions. Here are my thoughts: What I meant by "all its forms" was: There are several symptoms that are displayed by infected brood - colour change, typical range of position, viscosity of tissue, scale formation. AFB infected brood usually dies after sealing has taken place - but not always. It may occur before sealing takes place. I have seen AFB infected brood in very limited numbers - and it was impossible to state whether it was EFB or AFB - the cells were open. Brood dying after cells have been sealed also occurs. These are symptoms that are not "classic" and therefore allow for confusion. AFB infected pupae may "rope" if poked at the right stage of putrefaction, but they will not show this trait before and after a certain stage in decay. You mention that EFB does not show symptoms as found with AFB - then go on to list several! - all confusing the situation for the inexperienced. I suggest that AFB may be confused with EFB, but EFB is less likely to be confused with AFB (this statement may at first seem illogical!). AFB may show symptoms that may be seen/ associated with EFB, as well not presenting "classic symptoms". Hence my position that it is practically impossible to make a definite diagnosis of AFB in the field. The chances of correctly diagnosing EFB in the field is much better by comparison. I look for and find symptomatic the presence of trachea that are evident to the naked eye whilst attempting to diagnose EFB infected brood. I bow to your position regarding the testing kit - I have no experience with this material. I also agree totally in the need to educate beekeepers - at least so that they are able to distinguish at least between healthy and sick brood. They then should call in an expert, or send off a sample of the suspected material to gain confirmation of its status. Beekeepers should also be educated that when an infection occurs it is not a sin or reflection upon themselves as being incompetent . The irresponsible attitude is expressed when nothing is done or a cover up is attempted. This latter situation occurs frequently as other beekeepers are tempted to point fingers and "bad mouth" unlucky individuals. Wishing you seasons free from both of the above! Regards, Peter. PS: "Para Foul Brood symptoms are very similar to those seen in AFB and EFB, with individuals complaining that things don't become better after treating with OTC. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:53:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Giacomo Omallini Subject: Re: The magic of the hexagon http://www.apicolturaonline.it/comb.htm historical of the hexagon italian language sorry Giacomo Omallini :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 19:41:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit for AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Dillon wrote: > I have seen AFB infected brood in very limited numbers - and it was impossible to state whether it > was EFB or AFB - the cells were open. snip > AFB may show symptoms that may be seen/ associated with EFB, as well not presenting "classic > symptoms". > Hence my position that it is practically impossible to make a definite diagnosis of AFB in the > field. > The chances of correctly diagnosing EFB in the field is much better by comparison. Peter's response is the kind that makes the BeeList worthwhile. Exceptional and educational. I was taking with an expert and he made the same observations as Peter. When inspecting a yard he found EFB but knew that the yard had experienced AFB in the past. AFB was not obviously present. EFB was. Beltsville had to determine what was actually present and did find that the EFB was "masking" the AFB. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:18:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit for AFB Comments: To: pdillon@club-internet.fr In-Reply-To: <3F19A3B5.4B37EA9@club-internet.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <3F19A3B5.4B37EA9@club-internet.fr>, Peter Dillon writes >I have seen AFB infected brood in very limited numbers - and it was impossible >to state whether it >was EFB or AFB - the cells were open. If you pull out a larva and spread it out, a white gut indicates EFB. Pollen colour does not. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 01:31:44 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: EU Concerns About "Residue Monitoring Plans"? The editor of the "Speedy Bee" has confirmed that the report made on the "Bio-Bee" mailing list was an accurate summary of the facts, and the story cited WAS published in the "Speedy Bee" as claimed. Sadly, he interpreted my use of the phrase "if true" as questioning of the accuracy of his publication. I should make it clear that I was only questioning the accuracy of the specific statement made on the "Bio-Bee" mailing list. The lack of even a single word about this elsewhere made me wonder if it really was in the "Speedy Bee". (That's why I asked if anyone still had a subscription to the "Speedy Bee". My subscription seems to have lapsed.) So, back to the actual issue - the EU's ban on US honey... Q: How many different foods does the US export to Europe? A: Small to serious amounts of nearly everything we grow or raise. (They appear to not want any of the genetically modified stuff, which is their prerogative.) Q: And how many food items from the USA are BANNED due to a failure of the FDA to comply with the EU's residue monitoring requirements? A: Just honey. Q: And which other countries can't comply with EU residue monitoring requirements, and have also had one or more of their food exports "banned"? A: A few "Developing Nations". (Formerly called "Third-World Nations" before everyone got so touchy-feely, hyper-sensitive, and "politically correct".) Q: But the USA does not export much honey to the EU, do they? A: The USA exported an average of $7.6 million worth of honey each year for the past 5 years. An average of $1.2 million of that went to EU countries each year. That's about 15% of total US honey exports. (Per numbers crunched by the USDA, and published in a document sent to me by the helpful editor of the "Speedy Bee".) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Political Correctness Annotation Section for the Humor-Impaired Who Might Be In Some Way Offended By Any Of The Comments Above ---------------------------------------------------------------- 1) The use of quotation marks around the name of a publication, such as "Speedy Bee" is a common way to indicate a title, and should not be read as an attempt at satire, humor, or parody. 2) There is no connection between the newsletter "Speedy Bee" and the very popular beekeeping product "Fischer's Bee-Quick". (http://www.bee-quick.com) To date, there has been no analysis of the respective velocity of a "speedy" versus a "quick" bee. I dunno which might be faster. Don't really care. 3) I honestly don't have a complete list of what USA foods are exported to Europe, but when in Europe, I've never noticed a lack of food brands and cooking ingredients familiar in the USA. (They even have Guinness ale and Voisin chocolates!) 4) No comment is made on the whole genetically modified food issue, except to quote Jonathan Swift's "Gulliver's Travels": "Whoever could make two ears of corn or two blades of grass grow upon a spot of ground where only one grew before would deserve better of mankind, and do more essential service to his country than the whole race of politicians put together." 5) No claim is made that EU residue monitoring program requirements are "unfair" or "excessive". Since most all of the food exporting nations appear to have been able to "comply" for all but a tiny number of exports, they can't be terribly onerous. 6) No slight is intended against any "Developing Nation". Sometimes I wonder if "developing" was such a great idea for any nation. 7) No slight is intended against the "Bio-Bee" mailing list or its members. I read some of what they talk about, even though I am forced to slog through the tedious "Yahoo Groups" user interface. 8) No slight was intended against the person who posted the report on the "Bio-Bee" mailing list. One is well-advised to question anything they read on the internet, including questions about the accuracy of what one reads on the internet. 9) Every possible slight is intended against the "Yahoo Groups" facility. Just try using it on a wireless Palm Pilot sometime, and only then will you understand just how incompetent a group of Java coders work for Yahoo. It's like a John Deer combine at the drag races. More sad than funny, but a complete disaster either way. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:42:07 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit for AFB I'm a tad confused by this Bee-L thread in light of the subject of the thread. To summarize: a) It was reported that Vita introduced a field test kit (a chemical test for American Foulbrood). b) An initial attempt to use the test kit in the UK in front of a group of beekeepers did not result in consistently "positive" results from a known AFB-infected hive, but multiple tests resulted in at least one "positive" reading. c) A number of people then posted sage-like advice on how to visually diagnose both AFB and EFB, and how to tell the two apart. d) Others offered tales of cases where visual observations were inconclusive or misleading, and required great skill or laboratory work to confirm/deny. Did everyone dismiss the Vita test kit as "useless" based upon reports of difficulty in a single day on a single hive? Isn't it semi-obvious that, even in a hive known to be AFB-infected, any one specific small sample from the hive might not contain any trace of AFB at all? Isn't the really neat point that the Vita kit appears to allow beekeepers to transcend mere "visual observations", and stop "guessing", even if the guesses are often highly-educated and experienced guesses? The initial product offering is a kit said to cost 5 British pounds each, which may sound too expensive, but when has the price of any mass-produced item not gone down as sales volume went up? Maybe the whole "test strip" approach is a less-than robust packaging concept, when what might be more "accurate" as a screening tool would be something more akin to a water-testing kit, where a larger sample (or multiple small samples from the same hive) could be tested. This might involve the use of a weak solvent to break down a comb sample into a liquid slurry, which could then have a few drops of special chemicals added, and then shaken [or stirred] to get a reaction and a "color change"... Vita, like any vendor of products, may need to go through a tweaking process before their offering can hope to meet the needs of every beekeeper, but let's not discourage Vita so early in the process! A short tale of how good stuff gets ignored: At EAS 2000 (in Maryland), I listened to a presentation of a similar (radical, new) concept given by a fellow who spoke with a very heavy accent. It was clear that English was not his first language, and the audience's attention started to wander. Some of the audience started to wander out, since the poor guy was making the final presentation before a break, and goodies awaited outside. But I sat and listened. The guy had come up with a new approach to testing samples of bees for tracheal mites. He would toss a bag of bees straight from the beekeeper into a blender, push "puree", filter the resulting slurry, and do some chemical tests to detect the mites. I was impressed. No tedious dissections of individual bees, no peering into microscopes, no need to train people in how to do things "right". No more complicated than making a margarita. Suddenly, tracheal mite testing could be done in 1/100th the time, and at a very small faction of the cost. I shook his hand when he was done, and told him that he had made a great contribution to the state of the art. I don't think anyone else even bothered to TRY to understand what he was talking about, and I have no idea if anyone anywhere has adopted his technique. But I WANT to be able to test for diseases myself, even it requires some simple/cheap dedicated lab equipment. I LIKE the idea of chemical tests for diseases, pests, whatever. Chemistry is repeatable. "Visual observations" are not. Hey Max! Send some of those test kits and a non-disclosure agreement over here to the USofA. We'll make 'em work in the apiary, even if we have to rip out the transmission and mount the whole concept on a junkyard salvage chassis from a 1977 Chevy Impala. We'll cross-license back whatever we kludge. The group can now resume its regularly-scheduled muttering over the omens, portents, and signs of bee diseases, comparing techniques for reading tea-leaves, discussing the merits of left-handed versus right-handed rune tossing, whatever. But some of us see the promise in things like this. Some of us want less "art" and much more "science" in diagnosis. Some of see such things as the only way to increase certainty about mission-critical issues like diseases. New technology applied to farming is never perfect out of the box, but those who ignore new farming technology tend to not be farming for very long thereafter. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:32:39 +0100 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit for Pesticides MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And there was I, trying to catch up by reading the first Harry Potter book - deep in harmony with spells and magic broomsticks, and what comes along. A rib poking, kidney thumping mail from Jim, that then attempted to whack around the ears of those wallowing in EFB / AFB discrimination. Jim, as you inferred in your first sentence - the topic, I think had moved on from the original thread title. Original mail did cast comment on Vita's kit - true, but then following mails focused on a statement, that IMHO was a little distant from field experiences. I gave my points - to be agreed with or not! So, returning back to the kit. If it was viewed/ taken as intended to understand that I thought Vita have placed a useless piece of kit onto the market - that definitely was not the case. As I mentioned, I have never been near, seen or viewed the kit - great shame! Any development that reduces actions taken on the basis of "wobbly" evidence is to be welcomed (in fact grasped with both hands and feet). At the present, many beekeepers are not capable of discriminating between EFB and AFB - and when confronted with a brood problem, metaphorically close their eyes. That is, until things get out of hand. Most individuals do not send material away to be diagnosed. We all suffer from the consequences. A technique from wherever, placed into the hands of Mr. Average beekeeper, who then can determine a positive/ negative response related to the test undertaken, is an advance. If Max is reading - I would like one that when having obtained a few sickly bees from suspicious circumstances, will on a piece of gel impregnated, propolis resistant card - flash "Vital processes destroyed by Pesticide" with in brackets, the name of the manufacturer. As for an option (incurring additional payment of course!) - another strip with graduated scaling, which when dipped into previously prepared mush, will show the chance of success in taking previously mentioned manufacturer to court and obtaining reparation. Any lacune in project direction - whizz us a mail, boyo!! Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:16:41 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dennis Murrell Subject: Small Cell Bees in a Top Bar Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chris, > Over or under? The bars should possibly have been a smidge wider. I'm not sure why precisely. Others have observed a much wider spacing between combs used to store honey outside the brood area in feral nests. What I may be seeing is the bees transitioning to that kind of spacing. Regards Dennis With lots more space in the tbh for comb building and lots more to learn. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:01:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Cunningham Subject: EZ Fill MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone had any experience with the EZ Fill sold by Mann Lake. I am = thinking about getting some type of filler and I like the idea that it = operates on 12 volts so can be used to pump syrup in the field. John Cunningham Perrysville, Indiana :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:51:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit for AFB Bob said: > While I agree that a white gut is a sure sign of a *problem* a white gut of > a bee with nosema would be hard to tell apart in my opinion which is the > reason I see little value in the above method except to give a general idea > of a gut problem. Nosema is a disease of adult bees - we are discussing symptoms in larvae and pupae. > I look for EFB first in the larva of the colony and not the gut of the bee. Precisely! Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 05:54:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 21/07/03 05:03:11 GMT Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: << A technique from wherever, placed into the hands of Mr. Average beekeeper, who then can determine a positive/ negative response related to the test undertaken, is an advance. >> As far as I know this tool is not to be placed in the hands of Mr Average UK beekeeper. The law stands as it did. If the beekeeper suspects EFB or AFB he whistles up the Bee Inspector who will come running and sort things out at no (direct) charge. He is the man carrying Vita's kit. I suspect that he will use it but not rely on it. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:41:38 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit for AFB Bill wrote: "I was taking with an expert and he made the same observations as Peter [Dillon]. "When inspecting a yard he found EFB but knew that the yard had experienced AFB in the past. AFB was not obviously present. EFB was. Beltsville had to determine what was actually present and did find that the EFB was "masking" the AFB." It would be interesting to have more details of how EFB can mask AFB. All the literature (that I have seen) suggests that the causative organism of AFB (PLL) suppresses all other bacteria, i.e. when AFB is present then only PLL will be found, unlike EFB where there may be secondary invaders. Of course, your use of antibiotics may make the situation different from ours - if we had AFB then the comb would have been burnt. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:05:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: Small Cell Bees in a Top Bar Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm not sure why precisely. Others have observed a much wider spacing > between combs used to store honey outside the brood area in feral nests. > What I may be seeing is the bees transitioning to that kind of spacing. > > Regards > Dennis I cut mine at 1 3/8". I am beginning to see widening of the comb/bar spacing due to bees getting trapped & crushed between top bars. So far, it seems to be around an additional 1/8", which is not a problem. I built my TBH's to accept standard frames as well, so I could use "off the shelf" nucs to start. One standard deep frame was accidentally spaced a bit wide, and the comb is now about 2 1/4" thick at the top. I'd guess it weighs around 15 pounds or more. The bees don't seem to care. I had my first "oops" with a top bar recently. I was inspecting a partial comb with honey and some drone brood, and did something I'd done many times before without incident. I held the top bar with the comb above the bar to inspect the back of the comb. Suddenly, without notice, the entire comb tipped sideways and plopped on the ground. I won't do that again : ( Fortunately the comb was still quite edible, so the kids and friends dined on a few pounds of fresh honey comb. An interesting observation I made recently: I was making some temporary splits into nuc boxes, but was short on deep foundation. I took some extra unwired drone foundation I had, cut it into strips, and anchored it to the top bar of standard deep frames. When I transferred the frames/bees into these nucs, within minutes bees moved into the now familiar comb-drawing mode I have seen in my top bar hives (they moved directly to the foundation strips at the top and started to cluster). It was very fast, telling me that bees are much more aware of their surroundings than we might think. I'm interested to see how well they draw comb without foundation in standard frames. Anyone else try this? Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:50:46 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit for AFB Peter I really ought to be removing honey and starting to get ready for the heather, but it is pouring with rain - much needed - so I do not feel so bad about sitting here! Let me try to answer your points: "What I meant by "all its forms" was: There are several symptoms that are displayed by infected brood - colour change, typical range of position, viscosity of tissue, scale formation". These are the stages that I outlined - and are the symptoms that would identify AFB or EFB. "AFB infected brood usually dies after sealing has taken place - but not always. It may occur before sealing takes place". True, but this is rare and the vast majority of the larvae will die after capping and the cappings will then sink; this will indicate AFB rather than EFB. Any that die before capping would not display the white gut of EFB infected larvae. I have seen AFB infected brood in very limited numbers - and it was impossible to state whether it was EFB or AFB - the cells were open". Open because they had not been capped, or open because the cappings had been removed? If the former, then the white gut test should identify AFB or EFB, if the latter then I would expect other cells to present showing an earlier stage that would enable identification. "AFB infected pupae may "rope" if poked at the right stage of putrefaction, but they will not show this trait before and after a certain stage in decay". Agreed, it needs to be at the sunken capping stage. But if the disease has not reached that stage then the cells would be either open (so the white gut test applies) or just capped but not yet sunken - in which case there would be no apparent symptoms and we would not be suspecting either AFB or EFB. "Brood dying after cells have been sealed also occurs. These are symptoms that are not "classic" and therefore allow for confusion" This is a classic symptom! "You mention that EFB does not show symptoms as found with AFB - then go on to list several! - all confusing the situation for the inexperienced". I think that is a little unfair! I said: 'except for a general appearance of patchy or 'pepperpot' brood and, in a few cases, perforated cappings where the larva has died after capping (however, in these cases the remains will not 'rope' as with AFB)'. In other words, I acknowledged that both diseases will cause a general appearance of unhealthy brood (as will chalkbood, sacbrood, genetic abnormality etc) and that a very few larvae with EFB may die after capping - but I then pointed out that these would not 'rope' as AFB does. "I suggest that AFB may be confused with EFB, but EFB is less likely to be confused with AFB (this statement may at first seem illogical!)" I do have difficulty with this statement! Where there is brood present, I find the symptoms are too dissimilar for confusion between EFB and AFB. "AFB may show symptoms that may be seen/ associated with EFB..." But which symptoms, and are you saying that they would be seen exclusively? "Hence my position that it is practically impossible to make a definite diagnosis of AFB in the field. The chances of correctly diagnosing EFB in the field is much better by comparison". Seasonal Bee Inspectors in the UK have always been happy to diagnose AFB positively in the field and destroy colonies on that basis (unless the beekeeper insisted on a sample being taken for analysis first), but would normally always take a sample for laboratory confirmation of EFB (unless the beekeeper insisted on destruction). "I look for and find symptomatic the presence of trachea that are evident to the naked eye whilst attempting to diagnose EFB infected brood". Good point. Another very good indicator of EFB is larvae that turn dorsal side uppermost in the cell at the 3-4 day stage, i.e. with their backs towards you. "Beekeepers should also be educated that when an infection occurs it is not a sin or reflection upon themselves as being incompetent . The irresponsible attitude is expressed when nothing is done or a cover up is attempted. This latter situation occurs frequently as other beekeepers are tempted to point fingers and "bad mouth" unlucky individuals". Could not agree more! My first, and only, experience of AFB in my own colonies came after I bought an entire apiary in the spring of 1984 - inspected by two people - but AFB showed up in September (it seemed that there were scales hidden under winter stores). I called in the NBU and the inspector confirmed my diagnosis. In conversation with him I said that I would contact other beekeepers in the area to tell them. His instant reaction was: 'I would not do that! You will become a pariah.' I said that if that was the case then I would have to become one, as I had already made it clear that I believed that the only was to beat disease is to keep others informed. I don't think that I am regarded as a pariah... "Wishing you seasons free from both of the above!" Many thanks - let's wish everyone seasons free from both the above - and a whole raft of other nasties! Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ PS I have no knowledge on parafoulbrood and will bow to anyone who can enlighten. Now I really must go and do some work! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:00:52 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit for AFB Jim (who I do not believe is ever a 'tad confused') wrote: " Did everyone dismiss the Vita test kit as "useless" based upon reports of difficulty in a single day on a single hive?" I did not. I merely commented that it had given two false negatives on known infected material - so further work might be required. "Isn't it semi-obvious that, even in a hive known to be AFB-infected, any one specific small sample from the hive might not contain any trace of AFB at all?" Yes, but this was not a small sample from a hive. It was dug out of several cells in a heavily infected comb - confirmed, although no-one would have needed it, by the NBU laboratory. The cells had all the classic symptoms - perforated cappings, scale etc. "Isn't the really neat point that the Vita kit appears to allow beekeepers to transcend mere "visual observations", and stop "guessing", even if the guesses are often highly-educated and experienced guesses?" If it worked first time every time, maybe, but I made the point that I felt that positive diagnosis of AFB was possible in the field without the kit (or guessing) and that a kit for EFB might be more useful. Some have disagreed about the ease of diagnosis (their absolute right to do so!), but established practice from our NBU inspectors seems to agree with my view. "The initial product offering is a kit said to cost 5 British pounds each, which may sound too expensive, but when has the price of any mass-produced item not gone down as sales volume went up?" That assumes that there is a mass-market. "Maybe the whole "test strip" approach is a less-than robust packaging concept..." It is not a test strip - more, so I am told, based on a pregnancy testing kit. Material is macerated in solution and a couple of drops of the liquid placed in a small well on the kit. It then travels along a channel giving either one or two blue lines. One line indicates test correctly performed (they all gave this line) and the second indicates positive for AFB. "Vita, like any vendor of products, may need to go through a tweaking process before their offering can hope to meet the needs of every beekeeper, but let's not discourage Vita so early in the process!" Agreed, but there is a great danger in putting the product on the market if it does not work properly. I would suggest that few people watching the demonstration will be in a hurry to buy - and that is not good for Vita now or in the future. "Chemistry is repeatable". Not in this case! "The group can now resume its regularly-scheduled muttering over the omens, portents, and signs of bee diseases, comparing techniques for reading tea-leaves, discussing the merits of left-handed versus right-handed rune tossing, whatever". So kind, thank you sir. I have no experience of rune tossing - which hand would you advise? "Some of us want less "art" and much more "science" in diagnosis". So observation is no longer part of science? "New technology applied to farming is never perfect out of the box..." Isn't it the problem that nothing is perfect out of the box any longer? There is, increasingly, the tendency to 'trial' rather than take the trouble to get things right first time - governments being, of course, the worst offenders. If I hear the phrase, 'we will/must learn the lessons' just one more time... Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:11:59 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: waldig@NETZERO.COM Subject: Re: TreeColonyRemoval-Update.-&linktoBeevacplans Comments: To: beekeeping@EARTHLINK.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>While I applaud your enthusiasm for helping honeybees it seems to me the "problem" you describe is by perspective. Perhaps the problem isn't really the honeybees making a home in the hollow of the tree - but rather the homeowner whom is upset with the honeybees sharing 'his' space. Attitude is everything. Attitude on both sides. We ask our fellow citizens to tolerate our beekeeping in urban/suburban settings. If we turn a deaf ear to their pleas for removal, sooner or later our fellow citizens will pass unreasonable ordinances banning beekeeping in their communities. As a minority, the beekeepers will lose. Just as honey bees, rodents, carpenter ants, snakes, aligators etc. claim space for home and living in our backyards. However, I do not see many volunteers wanting to live with mice in their homes. >>Having spent my share of 'enthusiastic' bee-saving effort swinging from ladders into eves of houses or the side of a barn - I can safely say with experience that you're time was better spent calling a local pest agency for easier to remove beehives. My motives are both self-centered (a few bees and a few $ for my time) and altruistic. Nothing is more gratifying than the homeowners' kids saying 'this is just like the honeybees we saw on tv!' or 'I want to look inside the bees' nest.' Or a homeowner saying good-bye and asking 'are you going to give the bees a good home?' I find homeowners eager to learn about honeybees (and ways to prevent them from reoccupying the same holes). They come to appreciate the bees and beekeepers more. They certainly ask a lot of questions and listen about bees with awe and open mounths. There is little or no antagonism. >>Despite Varroa there are still lots of hives to 'save' every year. I do not know how it is in the rest of the country, but I am finding extremely few varroa in my own hives (w/o chemical treatment) as well as in the ferals I've collected. I am not betting my bottom dollar yet but perhaps the tide is starting to turn. >>For those that wish to join the effort, free bee plans for a beevac can be found at: http://www.beesource.com/plans/beevac/index.htm In the removal report at this site, the outside siding was taken down to get to the bees. I personally prefer to work from the inside (it's easier and cheaper to the homeowner) especially if it's sheetrock. And I can keep the room closed so I can vacuum up all the bees. Nevertheles, the colony size in the report is very impressive. I made my bee vac from a sturdy currogated box attached to an old Eureka vacuum cleaner. I cut two diagonally opposite holes in the box. In one, I inserted and tied down with wire the vac cleaner's hose putting an 8-mesh screan over it to prevent bees from getting sucked into the vac cleaner. In the other hole, I inserted and tied down with wire a 1" dia. stiffer hose (fishpond type available from some Home Depots and water nurseries). In the box, directly opposite the inlet hose, I taped a 4"x4" piece of soft foam to cushion the bees' injection into the box. To keep the box from collapsing on itself, I inserted and screwed from the outside two pieces of wood at 90 deg.. All cracks and gaps were sealed with duct type. This set-up is very light (important whether you are 30-ft up or at ground level) and easy to use. When the box is full (dramatically decreased suction), I cut the duct tape, open the flaps, and quickly shake the bees into a screened box. A few bees will take to the air but I will get them on the subsequent try. Waldemar Long Island, NY (Where the major honeyflow is usually over by July 15th. This year we had a very wet, cold spring into June and the golden rods are just starting to come on - perhaps we'll have a late summer/fall flow. It would be most welcome. :) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 01:35:49 +0200 Reply-To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Time for preparing a late honeyflow! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear fellow beekeepers! Normal honey harvest is now over for my part. I got two sorts of honey, one spring honey, harvested separate and the normal summer flow, also harvested separate. As I see it there is nothing more than waiting for harvesting the result of the pollination work the bees have done. Normally I start feeding when the last honey is taken, but I have tryed in special years to make a little more out of the bees by putting them up for heather honey. To go for heather honey demands strong families, because there is a big lose of bees, they simply is worn out, and the time of year is not the time for a big brood rearing. Because of this I already now make splits with new queens, and start to feed them. the rest of the summer honey they take in they will be allowed to keep, and I feed the bees 20 kg of invert sugar. The hives I took the splits from have now time to build up and be strong for the heather honey. When I move the bees home, and harvest the honey I then remove the old queen, and then combine the now feed and built up splits with the returning families. This way I overcome the big loss of bees on the heather. If I am lucky I can put between 10-20 kg of heather honey on top and end up with tree types of honey, that I can sell for a lot more then if I put all together in one bucket. Honey prices is from 4.5 to 5 US for 450g detail packets from my door and then about 50% more for heather honey. In the shop I have seen foreign imported honey to about 2 US for 450g 450g is standard for detail sale of honey. Best regards Jorn Johanesson Multilingual software for beekeeping since 1997 hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software home page = HTTP://apimo.dk e-mail apimo@apimo.dk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::