From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:22:58 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-83.3 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6B334902B for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDAZdq011456 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0307D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 163429 Lines: 3810 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:31:47 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit for AFB Peter Edwards said: > Yes, but this was not a small sample from a hive. It was dug out of > several cells in a heavily infected comb - confirmed, although no-one > would have needed it, by the NBU laboratory. The cells had all the > classic symptoms - perforated cappings, scale etc. That's depressing. Were the test kits returned to Vita for analysis? If each sample was a "sure thing" (and it certainly sounds like they all were), then Vita has some work ahead of them to figure out why such samples were not resulting in "positives". I agree that beekeeping does not need something that provides spotty results. We need INTEGRATED Pest Management, not INTERMITTENT Pest Management. :) >> Chemistry is repeatable". > Not in this case! Quality/purity issue? Shelf life or handling issue? Exposure to extremes of temperature in shipment? A packaging problem? Any of the above I'd believe, but chemistry IS repeatable. That's why the term "litmus test" is now part of the common vernacular. > So observation is no longer part of science? Without objective criteria and a consensus on what objective criteria are critical, you don't really have "observation". You have more of the parable of the "blind men and the elephant" than anything that might be able to get into the parties thrown by scientists, where hard liquor is served, and women of legal age are in attendance. The complete lack of a consensus on objective criteria is the basic problem behind the discussion in this thread about "diagnosis" of EFB and AFB. > Isn't it the problem that nothing is perfect out of the box any longer? Nothing ever really was. Nothing ever really is. It has always been thus. It shall always be thus. Even if one makes something "perfect", somebody is sure to complain about some aspect, and blame "the design". But don't DARE to ever ask anyone to read the instructions, as everyone expects everything to be designed to be intuitively obvious, foolproof, and fail-safe. (But I'm NOT claiming that this was the case in the test kit at issue!) We have all become much more demanding, pampered, and intolerant than we were only a few decades ago. Consider your own childhood. No car airbags, no seatbelts, no child-safety seats, no bike helmets, playgrounds of gravel or cinders, soccer games without shin pads, and, lest we forget, Lawn Darts! In light of current "standard" precautions that are backed by laws and fines, it should be a miracle that any of us lived to adulthood. > There is, increasingly, the tendency to 'trial' rather than take the > trouble to get things right first time Well, were the samples provided part of a "trial", or "beta test", or is the product in "general availability", and in stock at bee supply houses? jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:23:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Richard_A._Trevi=F1o?=" Subject: Gloves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I purchased a pair of what appears to be yellow plastic coated gloves. They have the following printed on the top of the glove: Bex® Sof Paw Best® Sanitized® 70-09 men's large I would like to purchase another pair; however, do not remember who I purchased them from. If anyone knows where I may purchase them, please let me know. Richard A. Treviño, Jr. ratrev@infohiwy.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:28:19 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit for AFB Comments: To: jfischer@supercollider.com Jim replied: "Were the test kits returned to Vita for analysis?" One would hope so! Not my demonstration. "Quality/purity issue? Shelf life or handling issue? Exposure to extremes of temperature in shipment? A packaging problem?" Not for me to know - but shelf life seems unlikely. " Without objective criteria and a consensus on what objective criteria are critical, you don't really have "observation"." In my view (and our own NBU), the criteria for AFB are pretty clear. " Nothing ever really was. Nothing ever really is. It has always been thus. It shall always be thus". Now that IS depressing! " Consider your own childhood... it should be a miracle that any of us lived to adulthood." I had an email on a similar theme a few weeks ago. I know that it is a bit off-topic but I have copied it below. "Well, were the samples provided part of a "trial"... " I'm not sure of their official status, but they are being demonstrated to beekeepers - so we come full circle. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ According to today's regulators and bureaucrats, those of us who were kids in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's shouldn't have survived. Our baby cots were covered with brightly coloured lead-based paint which was promptly chewed and licked. We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, or latches on doors or cabinets and it was fine to play with pans. When we rode our bikes, we wore no helmets, just flip flops and fluorescent 'clackers' on our wheels. As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags. Riding in the passenger seat was a treat. We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle - tasted the same. We ate dripping sandwiches, bread and butter pudding and drank fizzy pop with sugar in it, but we were never overweight because we were always outside playing. We shared one drink with four friends, from one bottle or can and no one actually died from this. We would spend hours building go-carts out of scraps and then went top speed down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into stinging nettles a few times, we learned to solve the problem. We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back before it got dark. No one was able to reach us all day and no-one minded. We did not have Playstations or X-Boxes, no video games at all. No 99 channels on TV, no videotape movies, no surround sound, no mobile phones, no personal computers, no Internet chat rooms. We had friends - we went outside and found them. We played elastics and street rounders, and sometimes that ball really hurt. We fell out of trees, got cut and broke bones and teeth, and there were no lawsuits. They were accidents. We learnt not to do the same thing again. We had fights, punched each other hard and got black and blue - we learned to get over it. We walked to friend's homes. We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and ate live stuff, and although we were told it would happen, we did not have very many eyes out, nor did the live stuff live inside us forever. We rode bikes in packs of 7 and wore our coats by only the hood. Our actions were our own. Consequences were expected. The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke a law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law. Imagine that! This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers and problem solvers and inventors, ever. The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas. We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all. And you're one of them. Congratulations! Please pass this on to others who have had the luck to grow up as real kids, before lawyers and government regulated our lives, for our own good. (If you aren't old enough, thought you might like to read about us). :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 04:25:30 -0400 Reply-To: b-huhman@bright.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Huhman Subject: Re: Small Cell Bees in a Top Bar Hive In-Reply-To: <002b01c34fa1$e72b00f0$85ad72d8@SOD> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An interesting observation I made recently: I was making some temporary splits into nuc boxes, but was short on deep foundation. I took some extra unwired drone foundation I had, cut it into strips, and anchored it to the top bar of standard deep frames. <> I'm interested to see how well they draw comb without foundation in standard frames. Anyone else try this? Todd. I'm a 4th-year beekeeper in central Ohio with 9 hives this year...first time posting to this forum. FWIW I routinely cut comb honey foundation in strips and insert in medium frames for the bees to draw out for cut-comb honey with good success. Generally I intersperse the strips between drawn frames to keep things in order, but currently I've got 4 frames with strips together and they're doing fine. The bees often seem to prefer working these strips in a heavy flow to either full-size foundation or dry, drawn combs. To me the resulting honey can't be beat. The only downside with doing this directly above the broodnest without an excluder is that they tend to build drone comb and the queen will pop up and fill them with drones, but that's manageable. If I put the strips in an upper super, they build the smaller cells and fill with honey. Thanks to all the folks posting on here. Your information and tips have helped me a lot, as well as providing a chuckle now and then. People do read and try what y'all are debating. Bill Huhman (it's WHO-mun...some would suggest I'm barely human, but we don't talk about that) Central Ohio, by way of Missouri and Nebraska :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:58:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Cara &Tom Patterson Subject: Aurora's beekeeping ordinance In-Reply-To: <002101be34cb$bb8df240$a9342fca@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit City Council unanimously passed the introduction of the beekeeping bill last night at it's Introduction. The Final reading of the bill be on August 11, 2003. City staff expects it to go forward with no problems. If all goes as expected it will become law one month after that. I am trying to get copy of the bill that I can post without having to retype the whole thing by hand. What a turn around from last October when the council almost passed a ban on beekeeping! Tom Patterson :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:27:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Layne Westover Subject: Re: Small Cell Bees in a Top Bar Hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>> signguy@SOVER.NET 07/21/03 11:05AM >>>Todd says: >I'm interested to see how well they draw comb without foundation in standard >frames. > >Anyone else try this? When I have just put starter strips into the top bar of a frame, the bees have always built the comb just fine, well attached at the top and ends, but they have always left a gap at the bottom above the bottom board. They did not attach the comb to the bottom board. That is usually not a big problem unless you are using the frame for extracting, but even then, I have extracted from these frames without too much problem too. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:36:08 +0200 Reply-To: Derek Steed Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Derek Steed Subject: Re: Painting Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry I didn´t answer earlier Mark - here is my comment: I have the problem of not being able to provide names of suitable products in the USA, I only know the German & Scandinavian markets.Basically I would always recommend a solvent-based hive coating against a latex product because of the better penetration into softwood. Any paint man knows that the performance of a coating is fundamentally dependant upon the adhesion of the coating to the substrate.Whats the good of a perfect coating which has poor adhesion, especially wet adhesion? Here they use semi-transparent long-oil alkyd based coatings of low viscosity and lower solids content than common oil paints. The pigments are ultrafine, often synthetic iron oxides and penetrate with the binder into the pores and joints giving the wood a high degree of water resistance.The insides are not painted. I use 2 to 3 coats without sanding on planed wood.The dried coating has a very faint sheen.Water-based coatings raise the surface fibres giving rise to " wicks " unless you sand between coats. Latex paints give flexible films but some can also " block " or stick when they touch - a real pain on the interfaces of hive bodies.How long do you expect the coating to last? Isn´t it more important to avoid repainting woodwork because the coating has blistered or chipped? Problems like chalking are really irrelevant to hive painting, wet adhesion is more important.Repainting should also not involve stripping off failed coatings, the old film should still adhere well. I don´t like using solvent either, even aromatics-free mineral spirit but I think it´s worth it.Eventually I suspect that all solvent-based paints will disappear largely for reasons of convenience - a great pity. As I wrote earlier, I use Bondex a Scandinavian product ( I have no commercial interest ) in green, blue yellow and a light brown. People here don´t paint hives white, they stand out in the landscape and can get vandalised or stolen. Latex paints are used here on polystyrene hives where they probably work quite well ( apart from possible blocking ).Sorry if this doesn´t fit the current vogue for wood treatment but you wanted my comment. Regards Derek Steed :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:42:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: beekeeper Organization: none Subject: Queen Cell Comments: To: Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, irishbeekeeping@yahoogroups.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I am seeing something in one of my overwintered hive that I have not seen before so I feel like a real newbee!. This hive came through the winter with a very small(6" patch of brood)and handful of bees. It has built up well and the queen is laying a solid brood pattern as of the last inspection several weeks ago. Since I plan to split this hive I checked it again today. There are fuzzies, a solid brood pattern, uncapped larva and a Large capped queen cell in the center of one of the frames. I didn't see the queen, but this contradicts a lot of what I have seen in the past-none or capped brood only remaining in the presence of a queen cell. I will go back and do a more thorough check for the queen before I split. Is this unusual or just something I haven't seen before? Coleene :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:46:46 -0400 Reply-To: wwfarm@wctel.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carolyn Ehle Subject: Re: Queen Cell MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit beekeeper wrote: >I checked it again >today. There are fuzzies, a solid brood pattern, uncapped larva and a Large capped queen cell in the center of one of the > >Is this unusual or just something I haven't seen before? > Is this Russian stock? Keeping a queen cell at all times, sometimes capped and then broken down, is a Russian trait that seems to persist even in my third generation of mixing Russian, Italian, Buckfast and who-knows-what bees. Guess in Siberia you don't have time to start from scratch so you need a cell working just in case... :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:18:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: Painting Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Derek said: > Any paint man knows that the performance of a > coating is fundamentally dependant upon the adhesion of the coating to the > substrate.Whats the good of a perfect coating which has poor adhesion, > especially wet adhesion? Sand first or use roughsawn, coat with 100% acrylic latex and you won't get poor adhesion - in fact, it sticks to just about anything. Don't use cheap paint. > Here they use semi-transparent long-oil alkyd based > coatings of low viscosity and lower solids content than common oil paints. All high quality exterior alkyd paints use long oils. If they didn't, they would peel within a year. Stains are naturally "low viscosity" - that happens when you thin paint. > Water-based coatings > raise the surface fibres giving rise to " wicks " Yes, water based paints raise grain: a non-issue on exterior finishes, unless you're into hand rubbed Japanese lacqer finishes on your hives :) > unless you sand between > coats. Nonsense. No sane person sands between coats of exterior latex paint. > Latex paints give flexible films but some can also " block " or stick > when they touch - a real pain on the interfaces of hive bodies. Why would you paint there? Hive tools just chew the hell out of it anyway. > How long do > you expect the coating to last? Premium 100% acrylic latex paints now often come with 20 year warranties. You won't find this in alkyd/oil base. Show me a can of alkyd/oil base paint with such a warranty, and I'll send you $20 American. > Isn4t it more important to avoid repainting > woodwork because the coating has blistered or chipped? We covered this already. Good adhesion/primer to start, breathable paint film on top. Won't peel. > Problems like > chalking are really irrelevant to hive painting, Not true. Try putting a fresh coat of paint over chalk dust... Tell me how long you think it will last? > Eventually I > suspect that all solvent-based paints will disappear largely for reasons of > convenience - a great pity. Not convenience, rather VOC emissions limitations. I'm sure the EU will soon be stomping over the same ground the U.S. is now - limiting VOC emissions from solvent based paints. > As I wrote earlier, I use Bondex a Scandinavian > product ( I have no commercial interest ) I'll have to try it. > Sorry if this doesn4t fit the > current vogue for wood treatment but you wanted my comment. > Regards Derek Steed > No "vogue" here, just 15 years experience and research, and feeling the need to warranty my work. Todd Signs Of Distinction www.distinctsigns.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 05:21:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: beekeeper Organization: none Subject: Re: Queen Cell Comments: To: wwfarm@WCTEL.NET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No. This was originally Buckfast, but the hive has requeened itself at least once, probably twice. The hive is 3 years old this spring. Coleene :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:45:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Queen Cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Coleene said: This hive came through the winter with a very small(6" patch of brood)and handful of bees. First indicator of a problem or failure to properly prepare the hive for winter. Coleene said: It has built up well and the queen is laying a solid brood pattern as of the last inspection several weeks ago. Since I plan to split this hive I checked it again today. What area of the U.S./ world are you in Coleene? Most of us in the Midwest are pulling supers . Spliting was over two months ago. Coleene said: There are fuzzies, a solid brood pattern, uncapped larva and a Large capped queen cell in the center of one of the frames. At times perfectly normal hives will have a queen cell in them. The location does indicate a possible supercedure. Coleene said: I didn't see the queen, Eggs? Coleene said: but this contradicts a lot of what I have seen in the past-none or capped brood only remaining in the presence of a queen cell. Rule number one of beekeeping: 1. Bees do not always do as the books say. I will go back and do a more thorough check for the queen before I split. Good idea. Trying to introduce a new queen to a queenright hive never works. Coleene said: Is this unusual or just something I haven't seen before? Hard to diagnose a problem without looking at the hive and the information you gave is not complete. If I were to guess I would say from the information you provided a supercedure was taking place (location of queen cell) and you will find a queen. Supercedure happens all the time and is not unusual. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:29:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Queen Cell In-Reply-To: <001f01c350aa$e8e6ad40$85e46742@cedavidson> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:42 PM 7/22/2003 -0400, you wrote: > There are fuzzies, a solid brood pattern, uncapped larva and a Large >capped queen cell in the center of one of the frames. >Is this unusual or just something I haven't seen before? Not uncommon at all in my experience. In fact I see this more often than not. -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:44:41 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: waldig@NETZERO.COM Subject: Bumble Bee Question. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Does anyone know if bumblebees respond the same way to smoke as honeybees? Does it jam their communications and cause them to 'hit the stores'? Waldemar Long Island, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:25:28 +0000 Reply-To: Andy.Sutherland@man.ac.uk Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Andy Sutherland Organization: University of Manchester Subject: Re: Bumble Bee Question. In-Reply-To: <20030722.175055.15571.493944@webmail20.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT What stores?? :0) They hardly have any, just enough for about a teaspoonful Andy S Does anyone know if bumblebees respond the same way to smoke as honeybees? Does it jam their communications and cause them to 'hit the stores'? Waldemar Long Island, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Dr Andy Sutherland Manchester University Electronics Section Chemistry Dept M13 9PL 0161 275 4641 Fax 0161 275 4598 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:59:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: Catch The Buzz Article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: kim@airoot.com [mailto:kim@airoot.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:53 AM To: undisclosed-recipients Subject: Catch The Buzz Article Laurence Cutts gets set to retire, and Florida is looking for someone to fill his position. We wish Laurence all the best now that he's got some free time, but trust he'll keep sharing his experience and wisdom with those of us still learning. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Florida Inspector Position Opens Laurence Cutts will be retiring as Chief Apiary Inspector for the State of Florida fairly soon, and the powers that be there asked if we could help spread the word about finding someone to fill his position. Here's what they sent: Chief Apiary Regulatory Inspector Selected Exempt Service Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services Division of Plant Industry Gainesville (Alachua County) Florida Senior level managerial position directs all apiary regulatory activities in the State of Florida. Position requires a BS degree in Agriculture or related biological science, five years of progressive experience in management, supervision or administration, and demonstrable experience in policy development, planning, and budgeting. Candidate must also have extensive experience in the apiary industry, and be able to demonstrate a thorough knowledge of industry business and cultural practices, regulatory processes, and apiary pests and diseases of regulatory significance. Experience as described may substitute for the required education. Submit: resume or curriculum vitae and completed State of Florida Employment Application to: Richard Clark, Chief, Bureau of Plant and Apiary Inspection, Division of Plant Industry, PO Box 147100, Gainesville, Florida, 32614, (352) 372-3505. Deadline to apply: August 31, 2003. This job is posted officially at http://www.myflorida.com/dms/hrm/myflorida/statejobsearch.html. Salary: 37K to 41K (commensurate with qualifications), plus excellent benefits. Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Kim Flottum Editor, Bee Culture Magazine http://www.beeculture.com/beeculture/index.html For an archive Catch the Buzz postings, visit: http://www.beeculture.com/beeculture/buzz/index.html To unsubscribe to this emailing, simply goto: http://www.beeculture.com/beeculture/buzz/unsubscribe.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:02:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Cara &Tom Patterson Subject: Aurora Colorado's Beekeeping ordinance Comments: To: Northland bee keepers , BiologicalBeekeeping@yahoogroups.com, beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, Organicbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, TomatoMania@yahoogroups.com, GardeningOrganically@yahoogroups.com, organichomesteadinggardening@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here is the beekeeping ordinance from the Aurora City Clerk's Office. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ ORDINANCE NO. 2003-51 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CHAPTER 14 OF THE CITY CODE OF THE CITY OF AURORA, COLORADO, BY ADDING A NEW SECTION 14-15 RELATING TO BEEKEEPING __________________________ WHEREAS, the City Council of the City of Aurora, Colorado has found that honeybees can be maintained within populated areas in reasonable densities without causing a nuisance if the bees are properly located and carefully managed; and WHEREAS, honeybees are of benefit to mankind by providing agriculture, fruit and garden pollination services and by furnishing honey, wax, and other useful products; and WHEREAS, passage of this ordinance is in the interests of the health, safety and welfare of the citizens. NOW THEREFORE, BE IT ORDAINED BY THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF AURORA, COLORADO: Section 1. That Chapter 14 of the City Code of the City of Aurora, Colorado, is hereby amended by adding a new section, to be numbered 14-15, which section reads as follows: SEC. 14-15 BEEKEEPING. (A) DEFINITIONS. THE FOLLOWING WORDS, TERMS AND PHRASES, WHEN USED IN THIS SECTION, SHALL HAVE MEANINGS ASCRIBED TO THEM IN THIS SECTION: (1) APIARY SHALL MEAN A PLACE WHERE BEE COLONIES ARE KEPT. (2) BEE SHALL MEAN ANY STAGE OF THE COMMON DOMESTIC HONEY BEE, APIS MELLIFERA SPECIES. (3) COLONY SHALL MEAN A HIVE AND ITS EQUIPMENT AND APPURTENANCES, INCLUDING BEES, COMB, HONEY, POLLEN, AND BROOD. (4) HIVE SHALL MEAN A STRUCTURE INTENDED FOR THE HOUSING OF A BEE COLONY. (5) TRACT SHALL MEAN A CONTIGUOUS PARCEL OF LAND UNDER COMMON OWNERSHIP. (B) HIVES. ALL BEE COLONIES SHALL BE KEPT IN INSPECTABLE TYPE HIVES WITH REMOVABLE COMBS, WHICH SHALL BE KEPT IN SOUND AND USABLE CONDITION. (C) SETBACK. ALL HIVES SHALL BE LOCATED AT LEAST FIVE FEET FROM ANY ADJOINING PROPERTY WITH THE BACK OF THE HIVE FACING THE NEAREST ADJOINING PROPERTY. (D) FENCING OF FLYWAYS. IN EACH INSTANCE IN WHICH ANY COLONY IS SITUATED WITHIN TWENTY-FIVE (25) FEET OF A DEVELOPED PUBLIC OR PRIVATE PROPERTY LINE OF THE TRACT UPON WHICH THE APIARY IS SITUATED, AS MEASURED FROM THE NEAREST POINT ON THE HIVE TO THE PROPERTY LINE, THE BEEKEEPER SHALL ESTABLISH AND MAINTAIN A FLYWAY BARRIER AT LEAST SIX (6) FEET IN HEIGHT CONSISTING OF A SOLID WALL OR FENCE PARALLEL TO THE PROPERTY LINE AND EXTENDING TEN (10) FEET BEYOND THE COLONY IN EACH DIRECTION SO THAT ALL BEES ARE FORCED TO FLY AT AN ELEVATION OF AT LEAST SIX (6) FEET ABOVE GROUND LEVEL OVER THE PROPERTY LINES IN THE VICINITY OF THE APIARY. (E) WATER. EACH BEEKEEPER SHALL ENSURE THAT A CONVENIENT SOURCE OF WATER IS AVAILABLE AT ALL TIMES TO THE BEES SO THAT THE BEES WILL NOT CONGREGATE AT SWIMMING POOLS, BIBCOCKS, PET WATER BOWLS, BIRDBATHS OR OTHER WATER SOURCES WHERE THEY MAY CAUSE HUMAN, BIRD OR DOMESTIC PET CONTACT. THE WATER SHALL BE MAINTAINED SO AS NOT TO BECOME STAGNANT. (F) MAINTENANCE. EACH BEEKEEPER SHALL ENSURE THAT NO BEE COMB OR OTHER MATERIALS THAT MIGHT ENCOURAGE ROBBING ARE LEFT UPON THE GROUNDS OF THE APIARY SITE. UPON THEIR REMOVAL FROM THE HIVE, ALL SUCH MATERIALS SHALL PROMPTLY BE DISPOSED OF IN A SEALED CONTAINER OR PLACED WITHIN A BUILDING OR OTHER BEE-PROOF ENCLOSURE. (G) QUEENS. IN ANY INSTANCE IN WHICH A COLONY EXHIBITS UNUSUALLY AGGRESSIVE CHARACTERISTICS BY STINGING OR ATTEMPTING TO STING WITHOUT DUE PROVOCATION OR EXHIBITS AN UNUSUAL DISPOSITION TOWARDS SWARMING, IT SHALL BE THE DUTY OF THE BEEKEEPER TO RE-QUEEN THE COLONY. QUEENS SHALL BE SELECTED FROM STOCK BRED FOR GENTLENESS AND NONSWARMING CHARACTERISTICS. (H) COLONY DENSITIES. (1) IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL TO KEEP MORE THAN THE FOLLOWING NUMBER OF COLONIES ON ANY TRACT WITHIN THE CITY, BASED UPON THE SIZE OR CONFIGURATION OF THE TRACT ON WHICH THE APIARY IS SITUATED: (A) ONE-QUARTER (1/4) ACRE OR LESS TRACT SIZE - TWO (2) COLONIES; (B) MORE THAN ONE-QUARTER (1/4) ACRE BUT LESS THAN ONE-HALF (1/2) ACRE TRACT SIZE - FOUR (4) COLONIES; (C) ONE-HALF (1/2) ACRE OR MORE BUT LESS THAN ONE (1) ACRE TRACT SIZE - SIX (6) COLONIES; (D) ONE (1) ACRE OR LARGER TRACT SIZE - EIGHT (8) COLONIES; (E) REGARDLESS OF TRACT SIZE, WHERE ALL HIVES ARE SITUATED AT LEAST TWO HUNDRED (200) FEET IN ANY DIRECTION FROM ALL PROPERTY LINES OF THE TRACT ON WHICH THE APIARY IS SITUATED, THERE SHALL BE NO LIMIT TO THE NUMBER OF COLONIES. (2) FOR EACH TWO (2) COLONIES AUTHORIZED UNDER COLONY DENSITIES, SUBSECTION (H)(1) ABOVE, THERE MAY BE MAINTAINED UPON THE SAME TRACT ONE NUCLEUS COLONY IN A HIVE STRUCTURE NOT EXCEEDING ONE (1) STANDARD NINE AND FIVE-EIGHTHS (9 5/8) INCH DEPTH TEN (10) FRAME HIVE BODY WITH NO SUPERS ATTACHED AS REQUIRED FROM TIME TO TIME FOR MANAGEMENT OF SWARMS. EACH SUCH NUCLEUS COLONY SHALL BE DISPOSED OF OR COMBINED WITH AN AUTHORIZED COLONY WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER THE DATE IT IS ACQUIRED. (I) PROHIBITED. THE KEEPING BY ANY PERSON OF BEE COLONIES IN THE CITY NOT IN STRICT COMPLIANCE WITH THIS SECTION IS PROHIBITED. ANY BEE COLONY NOT RESIDING IN A HIVE STRUCTURE INTENDED FOR BEEKEEPING, OR ANY SWARM OF BEES, OR ANY COLONY RESIDING IN A STANDARD OR HOMEMADE HIVE WHICH, BY VIRTUE OF ITS CONDITION, HAS OBVIOUSLY BEEN ABANDONED BY THE BEEKEEPER, IS UNLAWFUL AND MAY BE SUMMARILY DESTROYED OR REMOVED FROM THE CITY BY THE CITY MANAGER OR DESIGNEE. Section 2. That all ordinances or parts of ordinances of the City Code of the City of Aurora, Colorado in conflict herewith are expressly repealed. Section 3. That, pursuant to section 5-5 of the Charter of the City of Aurora, Colorado, the second publication of this ordinance shall be by reference, utilizing the ordinance title. INTRODUCED, READ AND ORDERED PUBLISHED this 21st day of July, 2003. PASSED AND ORDERED PUBLISHED BY REFERENCE this _____________ day of ________________________, 2003. ___________________________ PAUL E. TAUER, Mayor ATTEST: _________________________________ DEBRA JOHNSON, City Clerk APPROVED AS TO FORM: ______________________________ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:46:58 +0200 Reply-To: Derek Steed Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Derek Steed Subject: Re: Painting Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh dear Todd! here we go again - for the last time: a) If it is claimed that just roughing the surface of softwood will give latex primer the level of wet adhesion provided by a solvent-based stain we can stop right here, this is nonsense. b) These long-oil alkyds have a higher oil content than the usual binders.These coatings are not just " thinned paint" , the pigmentation is lower, different and no extenders are employed. c) Wicks are bad news, they protrude thro the film and can conduct moisture into the coating. d) Why not? if the film is so soft you cannot sand it its no use to me.The wood itself is sometimes not of very good quality and water does not help. If you cannot sand out subsequent imperfections in the coating this is a disadvantage.I would do this for solvent-based coatings if the wood is poor. e) I think such warranties must be as full of holes as a Swiss cheese. f) Again why not? Water can get into these joints and soak into the wood.The latex-treated surfaces are pressed together by the weight- bound to stick certainly when new.Pigmented long-oil alkyds are hard enough to avoid this. g) OK you live in a perfect world.I also do not believe,as you state, that latex paints are used on ferrous metals, particularly structural steel; I worked in this area for 6 years.I am talking of serious painting. h) The sort of chalking you are talking about does not arise with the coatings I am describing.You are talking of house paints with certain binders.As you know, chalking is often welcomed as it keeps white facades clean in a dirty environment. i) Finally, I am aware of 100% acrylics having worked 20years for a company making them.They are good in some applications .I cannot see why they are essential for hive painting.You obviously have a commercial interest .Sorry. Here we can still buy coatings based upon mineral spirit of very low aromatic content, long may it continue. Derek Steed :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:34:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Les Roberts Subject: ISBA JOURNAL AUGUST In-Reply-To: <200307230400.h6N3Zv2r026450@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The ISBA Journal is ready for free download in PDF format. It's just slightly over 2 meg in size, because it's 20 pages. I tried reducing the size as much as I could. Download from http://www.hoosierbuzz.com/document/i0308.pdf Back issues are found on http://www.hoosierbuzz.com Rob Green Editor ISBA Journal ccrb - www.ChristianMusicWeekly.com published weekly for Christian Radio :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 06:26:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Queen Cell In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030722222533.03191120@pop3.wcoil.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >> There are fuzzies, >-Tim What are..."fuzzies?" Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:21:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Sturman Subject: Favorite books Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi everyone, I have recently added an Amazon link to our club website (http://www.catskillbees.org) and I am looking to compile a list of books for our members to order. I already have some, but I would be interested in reading about yours. What are the top ten books you think every beekeeper should have on their shelf? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:59:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Important USDA/RMA Meeting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Tomorrow evening there will be a joint presentation by the USDA/RMA and Agrilogic, Inc. regarding: The Apiculture Risk Management Program is a two-phase partnership between the USDA's Risk Management Agency (RMA), and AgriLogic, Inc. The goal of the partnership is to assess the feasibility of providing risk management and/or insurance programs to apiculture producers. If it is determined feasible, then the development of such programs will occur. The feasibility of a crop insurance program for beekeepers, which could be similar to other crop insurance programs offered by USDA such as: corn, cotton, and wheat, is currently being studied. For details see: http://www.agrilogic.com/apiculture.html All beekeepers are welcome! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:10:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Favorite books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #1 is Richard Taylor's "How-To-Do-It Book of Beekeeping". #2 (and a long way from #1 for a beginner) is Diane Sammataro's "The Beekeeper's Handbook". Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:12:27 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Weather MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Did any other state's beekeepers suffer losses due to drought since 2002 July, long cold winter and wettness spring? Many in West Virginia lossed half of their hives. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:42:52 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Favorite books >From left to right, I have on my shelf: 1) "Honey Bee Pests Predators, and Diseases" Published by AI Root, a book that gets depressingly thicker and heavier with every edition, and may soon rival the 30-pound two volume "Compact Oxford English Dictionary" in bulk, mass, and microscopic typeface. 2) "The Wisdom of the Hive" Authored by Tom Seeley, published by Harvard Univ. Press. Neither book is cheap, and neither has even a single word about "basic beekeeping", but the first is a very good reference for understanding the pests and diseases, and the second is an excepctional reference for understanding the oft-ignored issue of "bee behavior". The other books on the shelf? Attempts to force-fit rules of thumb, personal opinions, and general statements into situations involving insects who are much less predicable than those who write books about bees. Writing about beekeeping is much like dancing about chemistry. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:04:14 +0100 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Re: Favorite books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Easy! "A Propos de la sante des abeilles..." Bayer P.R. Editions, 22, Ave d'Eylau 75116 Paris, France. Sept. 1999 Translated: "Concerning the health of Bees" A good read. Then, "A Manual of Beekeeping - E. B. Wedmore Bee Books New and Old. ISBN 0 905652 01 0 Considered as a "classic in apicultural literature" Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:04:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: beekeeper Organization: none Subject: Re: Queen Cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have always heard newly hatched bees call fuzzies. They look fuzzy all over. Coleene ----- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:56:49 +1200 Reply-To: peter@airborne.co.nz Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Bray Organization: Airborne Honey Ltd. Subject: Re: EU Concerns About "Residue Monitoring Plans"? In-Reply-To: <016b01c34e80$353d5c20$7604c518@gollum> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > The editor of the "Speedy Bee" has confirmed that the > report made on the "Bio-Bee" mailing list was an accurate > summary of the facts, and the story cited WAS published > in the "Speedy Bee" as claimed. Here's an official confirmation..... http://www.fas.usda.gov/scripts/gd.asp?ID=145985373 New Zealand has also been through this. Functionaly, those countries that export almost all or a significant proportion of what they produce have an advantage. The cost of running the scheme (collecting and analysing samples in proportion to the size of the crop) is basically amortized over the exports of honey to the EU. The EU accounts for over 50% of imports of the honey traded in the World - it is an important market for honey. The US's position here is [one of] the worst. Trying to run a scheme to sample the US national crop of 90,000 tonnes (at the rate prescribed by the EU directive) so it can continue to export $1.7million there basically makes it totally uneconomic, unless of course it is paid for by "the government". It's still uneconomic, it's just paid for by "someone else". End point testing (analysis of every shipment of honey) is allowable, probably cheaper, but still uneconomic. Our situation here in NZ is similar but better numbers wise. We produce 8,500 tonnes and export 2,500, half of which goes to EU. Argentina is much better off. They produce 80,000 tonnes (increasing) of which nearly all is exported. In NZ we put a voluntary levy on all product going to the EU and the cost of the levy pays for the running of the system. But it financially encourages selling to other markets. One might consider this is all a conspiracy against the US by the EU but probably more likely the fallout from the "death is a preventable accident" philosophy of bureaucrats running the World today. And when it comes to agriculture, the EU is the very definition of bureaucracy :-) Regards, Peter Bray _________________________________________________________ Airborne Honey Ltd., Pennington St, PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 http://www.airborne.co.nz peter@airborne.co.nz :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:20:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carl Deppe Subject: Honey Standards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Can someone point me to a website that has the standards for commercially sold honey? I am specifically looking for standards for antibiotic residues in honey either from the NYS Dept. of Ag and Mkts or the federal government. Thanks, Carl Carl and Diana Deppe Row to Hoe Farm 28 Thomas Ave. Hudson Falls, NY 12839 Phone and Fax (518) 747-9492 Mailto:rowtohoe@worldnet.att.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:26:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: huestis' Subject: Re: Favorite books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well in no particular order: A manual of Beekeeping by Wedmore. Successful Beekeeping by Wedmore. Queenrearing simplified by Jay Smith Queen Rearing by Snelgrove. Beekeeping by Philips Honey Farming by Manley Contemporary queenrearing by Laidlaw Swarming:it's control & prevention by Snelgrove Honey in the comb by Killions A modern bee farm by Simms (or is it Simmons???) There's 10 for starters. I've read them all and there all pretty good. With the first being my favorite. Clay Clay's Bee Page-biological beekeeping methods http://wave.prohosting.com/clay2720? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:47:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Re: Honey Standards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ask your senator in washington for "united states standards for grades of extracted honey" effective date May 23, 1985. dont know if this will help. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:33:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Favorite books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have no desire for a FAVORITE book about bees, which implies pleasant FICTION. With all the problems caused by the introduction of mites in our apiaries, tracheal in 1984 and varroa in 1987, A book, irrespective of the fame of the author and his writings, that has been published prior to about 1990 is basically OBSOLETE. HARSH WORDS, you might say; but to often the beginner, novice, or beeHAVER will depend on THAT book alone for beekeeping knowledge, and his bees DIE even though he "followed the book" written by some famous beekeeper. That is like using your 1978 Chevrolet service manual to tune up your 1998 Chevrolet which now has electric ignition instead of points and condenser. I think every beginner would be wise to have and STUDY Diana Sammataro's 3rd Edition, 1998, of the Beekeeper's Handbook. The drawings of bees, brood, pollen, nectar, and honey inside a hive at different times of the year are spectacular, as are all the many other drawings to depict the good and bad things of hive management. When a beeHAVER gets about two years of experience, he and EVERY beeKEEPER should have on his desk, and well worn from constant referral, the 1992 EXTENSIVELY REVISED EDITION of THE HIVE AND THE HONEY BEE. Older editions were of value in their day, but OBSOLETE now in 2003. There are those out there who will disagree with me. You see, I have only been keeping bees for 71 years, starting in 1932, but I am a SLOW LEARNER, and hence I am still learning each year how to improve my honey crop from my ten year average yield of 132 lbs./colony in nectar poor Maryland. You are never too old to LEARN, but too many people are too LAZY to learn. George Imirie Certified EAS Master Beekeeper Now in my 71st year of beekeeping successfully in Maryland and Virginia Founder and still President (18 years) of Montgomery County Beekeepers Assn. with its 150 paid members and 10 EAS MASTER BEEKEEPERS of the 133 total in the U.S. Past President Of Maryland State Beekeepers Author of George's monthly PINK PAGES @www.beekeeper. org/george_imirie/index.html and 5 other websites Author of American Beekeeping Federation Newsletter Hobbyist Tips :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 00:12:04 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: EU Concerns About "Residue Monitoring Plans"? Peter Bray said: > New Zealand has also been through this... > End point testing (analysis of every shipment of honey) is > allowable, probably cheaper, but still uneconomic. Is this "residue monitoring program" a requirement imposed only by the EU, or are such plans consistent with WTO SPS rules as valid ways for all WTO members to assure food safety and biosecurity? I recall quite a bit of honey that had to be recalled and/or intercepted at port of entry due to contaminants over the past few years, so I don't think that all WTO member nations currently enjoy similar protection against contaminated food. One would also have to ask pointed questions about the effectiveness of any "self-certification" scheme in light of the recent confirmation of extensive trans-shipment conspiracies to mask the origin of honey. It seems that only the honest are burdened with the expense and effort of "monitoring". The dishonest clearly have no trouble creating false documents good enough to deceive the customs services of multiple countries. > In NZ we put a voluntary levy on all product going to the EU > and the cost of the levy pays for the running of the system. > But it financially encourages selling to other markets. If this is not required for all your exports, but only for your exports to the EU, how is this extra cost not a de-facto tariff on imports imposed by the EU? How is this not a generalized policy of blatant protectionism, wrapped in the white doctor's coat of "consumer safety and health"? > One might consider this is all a conspiracy against > the US by the EU... The US market share for honey exports to the EU is too small to justify any such "conspiracy". A mere $1.2 million (in annual US honey exports) just happens to equal the exact amount donated by the Boeing aircraft company for the World War II memorial. http://www.wwiimemorial.com/archives/newsletters/Winter1999.pdf Not many people still remember World War II, so they are building memorials. Back then, Europe was buried in rubble and the bodies of young men from far-away places like the USA and New Zealand, and was much less restrictive about food shipments from the US. So, what can one say that the EU would understand? I stumbled across an appropriate tool for dealing with such situations: http://www.defectiveyeti.com/images/pirate.jpg The "pirate keyboard". Perfect for communicating with both individuals and rouge nations who have hoisted the Jolly Roger, and are ignoring the more traditional and ethical approaches. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 02:03:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Favorite books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit “The Queen Must Die” William Longgood. Great book for anyone with a curiosity about honey bees. Not a ‘how to keep bees’ book, but beginners will still find it informative. Very readable. Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:22:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "D. McBride" Subject: Re: Bumble Bee Question. I must admit that I don't know if they do respond in the same manner with smoke, however, they do respond in the same manner as honeybees do when sprayed with sugar syrup. I have several bumble bee hives as well as the honeybee hives, and could attempt to determine if they do. As all my bumblebee hives are set up as observation hives once the outer lid is opened, such observations are easy to determine. Using one as a control, I could experiment on another to determine the result. Just let me know if you'd like me to run the experiment. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:53:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Re: Favorite books In-Reply-To: <17.3bd7dc4a.2c51fef2@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 24 Jul 2003 at 23:33, GImasterBK@AOL.COM wrote: > I think every beginner would be wise to have and STUDY Diana Sammataro's > 3rd > Edition, 1998, of the Beekeeper's Handbook. George makes a good point. Old beekeeping books are NOT good guides for beginners, and his choice of a beginner's manual would be my recommendation as well. There is a busy traffic in old bee books on E-Bay, and I shudder to think of how many new beekeepers start out with old manuals without realizing the current situation. That said, I still think anyone who is interested in commercial beekeeping would benefit from biographical info from those who have actually done it. The best of all beekeeper biographies in my estimation is "Bees are My Business" by Harry Whitcomb, in which he tells of some of the pioneering activities of pollination service, also the beginnings of the battles over misused pesticides. It's out of print, but copies are available thru e-bay and used book networks online. "Two for the Honey" by Clay Tonz is another little gem. I don't know about the availability. "Following the Bloom" by Douglas Whynott gives more recent information on commercial beekeeping. You can also run a search at National Geographic which did an outstanding story on migratory beekeeping a few years back. I don't have the issue in hand right now. "Insect Pollination of Cultivated Crop Plants" by Sam McGregor is a classic USDA publication, that's a bit dated but still available online at http://www.beeculture.com/ I understand that some updates have been made to this. It should be a required reference to any beekeeping or gardening class. "The Forgotten Pollinators" by Stephen L. Buchmann and Gary Nabhan is a thought provoking book that should be read by all beekeepers. It puts the honeybee in the larger perspective of loss of pollinators worldwide. Keep in mind that many books that treat pollination will sometimes take a slap at honeybees as "exotic" or worse "invasive." This indicates a bit of an agenda, since it is also a fact that most of our food plants, and even humans themselves are invaders of the American continents (some earlier than others). A book with glorious photos that deals with garden ecosystems is "Insects and Gardens," by Eric Grissell. He avoids the pitfalls of the "nozzleheads" (the pesticide junkies) and the back-to-nature purists, by promoting "realistic" gardening. The search engine is one of the most marvelous inventions of our age, and can command great volumes of information in an instant, that was not quickly accessible even to large libraries a generation ago. Anyone who has not learned to use Google, and the various search engines at University Extension sites, used book sites, and yes, even and amazon.com is missing out on a valuable resource. I recently found a used book I had been looking for, at half.com, for 2.25 plus shipping, which was a fantastic bargain. Try using search engines with paired terms, such as "gardens" and "bees," or "gardens" and "pollination." You'll get enormous quantities of info. (For your info) The Pollination Home Page went down, just as I was leaving for vacation July 1, and I note upon my return, is still down. My hosting company was bought by another, and I seem to be caught, along with a lot of other webmasters, in a dispute between the two companies. I *hope* to have it back up soon. Meanwhile you can access some of the info from The Pollination Home Page at http://pollinator.info/ Dave Green SC USA http://pollinator.info/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:55:56 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Maurice Subject: Re: Honey Standards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ....or look at http://www.ams.usda.gov/standards/exhoney.pdf Greetings from belgium. Maurice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Dean" To: Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Honey Standards > Ask your senator in washington for "united states standards for grades of > extracted honey" effective date May 23, 1985. dont know if this will help. > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:28:33 +0200 Reply-To: Derek Steed Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Derek Steed Subject: Re: Favorite books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 1) The Honey Bee, James Gould and Carol Grant Gould,Scientific American Library. - A fascinating read, increases my respect for honeybees still further. 2) A Manual of Beekeeping, E. B. Wedmore, Second Edition revised.- whilst old, a treasure chest of beekeeping wisdom and practical experience. 3) Am Flugloch, H. Storch, European Apicultural Editions.- how to tell what´s going on in a hive from the outside ( really ) 4) Der Honig, Josef Lipp, 1994 Eugen Ulmer GmbH & Co. - comprehensive theoretical & practical info on honey. 5) Bienenkrankheiten, Wolfgang Ritter, 1994 Verlag Eugen Ulmer & Co.- bee diseases, diagnosis, treatment etc.a very practical help 6) Honey Farming, R. O. B. Manley, Northern Bee Books.- a lifetimes experience of bee farming in Britain 7) Sorry you can´t buy this one: Bagster on Bees, Samuel Bagster Junior, London 1834.- fascinating description of beekeeping 170 years ago, hives, subduing of bees etc. 40 illustrative wood engravings. Books 1 to 6 contain much usefull info which many other books either do not have or do not adequatly explain. Derek Steed :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:41:21 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: EU Concerns About "Residue Monitoring Plans"? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In reply to Peter Bray, Jim Fischer asked > Is this "residue monitoring program" a requirement imposed > only by the EU, or are such plans consistent with WTO SPS > rules as valid ways for all WTO members to assure food safety > and biosecurity? It is imposed by the EU for a lot of products that any country wants to export to the EU. Here in Australia we have a National Residue Survey in place for honey which is funded by statutory (compulsory) levies on honey sold in Australia. Other commodities, such as meat, do the same. No program, no exports to the EU. Is this valid under WTO SPS? Probably not as I don't believe the EU has the same requirements in place in the EU. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:11:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Weather In-Reply-To: <112.2678d51c.2c51515b@wmconnect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:12 AM 7/24/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Did any other state's beekeepers suffer losses due to drought since 2002 >July, long cold winter and wettness spring? The drought severe enough here (NW Ohio) to cause any losses that I know of. Soybean and corn crops were hurt badly in many areas, but it didn't seem to hurt the bees. However, the severe cold with 4-5 weeks below freezing did cause many losses. Several beekeepers I know lost around half. My colonies were weaker than last spring, but nearly all my hives made it just fine. Only a couple late swarms that weren't well prepared failed (lack of stores or old queen), entirely my fault. Bee Culture reported rather high losses all over, many states with 30-50% losses. I did notice a high number of queen failures this past spring typically in otherwise healthy colonies with good brood patterns. Apparently others in my area observed the same. Stress due to the cold winter/wet spring? I can't say. -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:22:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "D. McBride" Subject: Re: Small Cell Bees in a Top Bar Hive Fascinating thread, which provoked the following thought. Has anyone tried blank foundation, that is a blank wax sheet without any embossing? If so, what has been your results? Such an experiment would be interesting, automatically attaching the wax to the base of the frame, thus eliminating that usual problem. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:32:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Howard Kogan Subject: Beekeeping books My list of the important bee books from my library include; Seeley's Wisdom of the Hive Taylor's How To Do It Book of Beekeeping Taylor's The Joy of Beekeeping Bonney's Beekeeping Aebi's Art & Adventure of Beekeeping Sue Hubbell's A Country Year Honey Bee Parasites, Pests, Predators, and Diseases by Penn State Hive and The Honeybee ABC and XYZ of Beekeeping Morse's Complete Guide to Beekeeping :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:14:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Will Crow Subject: Re: Favorite books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George wrote: "A book, irrespective of the fame of the author and his writings, that has been published prior to about 1990 is basically OBSOLETE." Anyone on the list feeling his/her books are obsolete needing to upgrade to the latest OS. Please feel free to mail them to me. I'll pay for the postage. The older the better. A private e-mail would be the best correspodance as I wouldn't want anyone to feel embarrassed running an operation on an obsolete operating system. Will Crow :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:31:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: huestis' Subject: Re: Favorite books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Will and all, > Anyone on the list feeling his/her books are obsolete needing to upgrade to > the latest OS. Please feel free to mail them to me. I'll pay for the > postage. The older the better. A private e-mail would be the best > correspodance as I wouldn't want anyone to feel embarrassed running an > operation on an obsolete operating system. Not much has changed in the last 100 or so years as far as basic bee management(more or less). To say that these books are obsolete because they don't talk about todays chemical trends seems rather wrong to me. Toss out the bee dopes and the artificial bee chows and all you basically have is what those old books contain. Since I stepped off the chem tread mill I have a whole mass of good bee books available new and old. Clay :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:16:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: huestis' Subject: Re: Small Cell Bees in a Top Bar Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Fascinating thread, which provoked the following thought. Has anyone > tried blank foundation, that is a blank wax sheet without any embossing? > If so, what has been your results? Such an experiment would be > interesting, automatically attaching the wax to the base of the > frame, thus eliminating that usual problem. reply: Several of my aquantences on beesource.com have used blank starter strips. The results were that the bees drew the same cell size basically that they came off from. This is similar to my experience with 4.9mm cell foundation of which I have used both strips and full sheets. This page http://wave.prohosting.com/clay2720/4.9mm_comb_drawing.htm/combs showsthe good the bad and the ugly. Clay :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:19:01 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Honey Standards >> Can someone point me to a website that has the standards for commercially >> sold honey? I am specifically looking for standards for antibiotic residues >> in honey either from the NYS Dept. of Ag and Mkts or the federal government. > ...united states standards for grades of extracted honey... Nope, that's just "Grade" and "Shade" standards. (Interesting how all honey sold at retail is claimed to be "Grade A", and "lighter" honey is somehow worth more than "darker", even though the only honey with any actual flavor are the darker varieties.) If you want residue tolerances, this sort of information is not compiled and made easily available in any one place, nor is there any one "list" that would be applicable to everyone. For example, consider the situation with coumaphos (Check-Mite) when it was first approved under "Section 18s": Section 18 "emergency" applications for the use of coumaphos were initially created, reviewed, and approved for some states, but not all. (By now, I assume that most all US states have Section 18s on file for coumaphos.) The "tolerances" for coumaphos in honey and wax were set ONLY for states where coumaphos use was allowed. So, if I was a migratory beekeeper (the few, the proud, the sleep deprived...) I would have been able to legally use coumaphos under a Section 18 while I overwintered in Florida, but unable to sell honey from those hives in any state that did not yet also have an approved Section 18 for coumaphos. Now, there may be ways to "avoid" such problems by holding one's hand on a 1922 edition of "ABC & XYZ of Bee Culture" and swearing that the bees made the honey only in states with Section 18s, and providing some sort of proof of where one's hives were at what times, but we have a confusing morass of "rules" to slog through if we want to keep on top of this sort of issue: a) More than one agency that can set "tolerances" (The FDA regulates food, and the EPA regulates pesticides, and at least California seems to have their own state-level environmental regulations that are often at odds with the EPA regs...) b) Specific times/places where such "tolerances" are valid, which means that eddies in the space-time continuum could create serious regulatory problems for some beekeepers. (Who "Eddie" is, what he's doing in the space-time continuum, I don't know.) c) A number of possible places where one might publish such a "tolerance", but on a federal level, this sort of thing ends up being published in the "Federal Register" ( http://www.gpoaccess.gov/fr/index.html ) a periodical that no one really reads even though it has the net effect of changing the laws of the land in every edition. As an aside, the tolerances for coumaphos were set at 0.1 ppm (100 ppb) for honey, and 100 ppm for wax. I'd suggest asking the National Honey Board. If anyone has a complete list, they should. It appears that the only way to ask them a question is via their web site's "feedback" page at http://www.nhb.org/feedback.html or by phone at (303) 776-2337. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:05:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Howard Kogan Subject: beekeeping books While I understand the necessity of treating contemporary problems with scientifically up to date solutions; let's not minimize the great value of the 'classic' beekeeping books. They contain a vast store of knowledge, experience and wisdom. They can also be inspiring and entertaining-and I can use a lot of both when confronting these "modern' problems in beekeeping. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:10:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: Small Cell Bees in a Top Bar Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit D. McBride wrote: >Fascinating thread, which provoked the following thought. Has anyone >tried blank foundation, that is a blank wax sheet without any embossing? >If so, what has been your results? Such an experiment would be >interesting, automatically attaching the wax to the base of the >frame, thus eliminating that usual problem. > That is what I did in my TBH, as per Satterfeilds website. Worked great - the bees seemed to work the face of the strip in a ddition to the edge unlike some of the reports of them starting on the edge of foundation and having a tenuous attachment to the bar. My strips, once waxed on were approximately 1/5-3/4 inch tall. Do youself a favor thhough and only use them on the middle third of the bar - otherwise the bees may choose one side over the other and make unbalanced combs. Not a problem for the bees, just trickier to handle is all. Keith :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 22:59:21 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Bumble Bee Question. In-Reply-To: <20030722.175055.15571.493944@webmail20.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <20030722.175055.15571.493944@webmail20.nyc.untd.com>, waldig@NETZERO.COM writes >Does anyone know if bumblebees respond the same way to smoke as honeybees? Does >it jam their communications and cause them to 'hit the stores'? I know beekeepers who are willing to move bumble bee nests to save them, who use smoke. I have moved them without smoke, when they have stopped flying, after reorganising the nest so as to move them in the evening. They don't have stores as such - only food for the larvae. This is where the honeybees score over bumblebees. The stores form a buffer for winter and variable weather and even variable years as a whole. Bumblebees are seasonal, relying on the availability of nectar and pollen to build up a colony sufficiently strong to make new queens and drones for the next season's colonies. They are therefore much more dependent on the weather so their numbers vary very much between years. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:44:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Bumble Bee Question. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James said: They don't have stores as such - only food for the larvae. Bumblebees are seasonal, relying on the availability of nectar and pollen to build up a colony sufficiently strong to make new queens and drones for the next season's colonies. Like James I have looked at a few bumble bee colonies in late summer and we even made up a couple bumble bee observation hives for our state fair. In all cases almost no stored honey was found. What do the Bumble bees do with the nectar they gather as they always seem busy on flowers and coming and going from the nest? On any given summer day in our area many can be found going from flower to flower and we found bumble bee nests with around 300 bees in late summer. Looks like at least a small surplus would be gathered. To simplify things most nest cavities we looked at were to small for storage space but I did remove a very large nest (number of bumble bees) from a roof and although a huge amount of space for expansion was available when I removed the 4x8 sheet covering the nest only a typical bumble bee size nest was found (late summer and around 250-300 bees) and only a very small amount of stored honey and pollen. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 22:19:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Mares Subject: Re: favorite books Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The National Geographic article to which Dave Green refers is called AMERICA'S BEEKEEPERS, HIves for Hire in the May, 1993 issue. Whynott's book was published by Stackpole Books, Mechanicsburg, PA in 1991 "Following the Bloom" by Douglas Whynott gives more recent information on commercial beekeeping. You can also run a search at National Geographic which did an outstanding story on migratory beekeeping a few years back. I don't have the issue in hand right now. Bill Mares/Mares Apiaries 429 South Willard St., Burlington, VT 05401 Phone: 802-863-4938 Fax: 802-864-7982 Bee Happy in your work! _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:59:29 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: Weather MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'Bee Culture reported rather high losses all over, many states with 30-50% losses.' Do other countries (such as Russia) routinely experience such high losses due to extreme weather, does anyone know? Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 19:12:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Moderator Subject: Rejected Posts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is seldom good reason to quote more than a few words from previous articles when replying to comments on BEE-L. Excessive quotes clutter the archives and confuse the search engine. Recently, the amount of quoted material in replies -- including even headers and signatures from previous articles -- has increased to the point where moderators are now often rejecting otherwise valuable material. Please DO NOT QUOTE anything beyond a bare minimum. If in doubt, leave it out. With almost no exceptions, posts with anything more than a few lines of quotes WILL be rejected without notice. For more information, please consult http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BEE-L/ The moderators :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 23:59:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Williamson Subject: I need some help - Hive Beetle Hello I'm located in Vidor Texas about 45 miles west of Lakes charles LA and 90 miles east of Houston. I just found four small hive beetles and frames of larvae in my honey house. I'm hoping that someone here has had some experience with dealing with these bugs and can give me some useful advice. We've never given them a thought down here and were hoping they would never get this far. I understand that checkmite is effective, but does it have to be under something or does hanging it between frames work and is there anything else I can do? Any advice is more than welcome. Robert Williamson texasdrone@texasdrone.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 08:12:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: TxBeeFarmer Organization: The Little ~ Coldiron Farm Subject: EKOBI Method for Crystallization of honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone here familiar with the EKOBI (Swiss) method for the crystallization of honey - better know as creamed honey? It's a very easy method, but I can't seem to find out the ratio of seed starter to liquid honey. Or...., can someone translate the procedure. Here's the web address: http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/research/kristall.htm Thanks (West Texas) Mark :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:08:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Outlaw Subject: Small Hive Beetle In-Reply-To: <200307270359.h6R3jL2b016062@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed As I understand, there's little one can do prevent small hive beetles from migrating to one's hives: (a) do not use grease patties, and (b) keep the floor of nearby fruit orchards clean. Do these recommendations still hold ? In an effort to control reproduction in my apiary, I have placed my hives on recycled plastic that was used as a swimming pool liner. The plastic extends beyond the distance larvae have been observed to migrate from the hive to the soil. But, does anyone know how far they will migrate IF THEY ARE MIGRATING ON A BARRIER? I like the plastic anyhow (no weed problems, snakes could be seen more readily, no grit on hive parts rested on ground), but is this plastic controlling beetles, or simply giving them a workout? Best wishes to all. Bill Outlaw (Tallahassee, hobbyist) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:10:31 -0600 Reply-To: Mathew Westall Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mathew Westall Subject: Re: Favorite books - from a bee book collector MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Depending on your interest in reading on bees there are some wonderful volumes both in & out of print. Your skill, area of interest and background with bees should all guide your choice. Beginners? (or Intermediates) looking for seasonal management technique: -THE BEEKEEPER'S HANDBOOK by Diane Summataro- 3'rd Edition - Illustrations and simple explanations on technique are easy to follow and shed light on nearly every aspect of current beekeeping management. For info, I would rate this as my #1 book. -SEASONAL MANAGEMENT by Richard Bonnie - Alot of info regarding technique as the season dictates. Collectables & Cyclopedias: -HIVE & the HONEY BEE by Langstroth - absolute necessity & first book dedicated to moveable frame hives integrating the concept of bee space. 1855 to 1860 volumes are exceptionally rare but copies of the original are in print. ABC(& ABC/XYZ) of Beekeeping - AI Root - Cyclopedia A-Z on beekeeping - updated every 5-10 years just as the H&H. -Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think either work has been updated to include Varroa in the current editions.- -AMERICAN BEEKEEPER'S HANDBOOK by TB Miner - (1849) - First incidence on the idea of "Bee-Space" into an American bee journal. Langstroth had Miner's book in possession when writing his corner-stone work. Queen Rearing: QUEEN REARING and BEE BREEDING by Harry Laidlaw - hands on current work filled with by technique and background. I would like to see some more on the use of plastic apparatus in this volume. & collectibles on Queen Rearing: SCIENTIFIC QUEEN REARING by GM Doolittle - first work (?) with the sole emphasis on queen rearing SIMPLIFIED QUEEN REARING by Jay Smith - small concise book with numerous techniques applied & -better- QUALITY QUEENS by Jay Smith - the author completely discounts his earlier work & shows proven methods. History of Beekeeping: Eva Crane deserves here own category here. "World History of Beekeeping, &" is a book by itself by comprehensive works. Expensive but worth every penny. Nostalgia: Fifty Years Among the Bees by CC Miller ("A Year Among" & "Forty Years") - just fun reading. Reprints of "Fifty Years" were made in 1977 and are sometimes found on ebay, half.com or bookfinder. Originals are scarce but can be found. Simply a must read for any beekeeper. There are numerous other works to shed light on pollination, commercial production, Varroba/disease - but I'll step aside on comment as my interest is entirely on history & seasonal management of bees. While I'll agree with George Imrie's suggestion that nearly all the beekeeping books printed before 1990 & possibly 2003 (!) are seemingly obsolete, that perspective is from a beekeeper whom already has a GREAT deal of historical knowledge 'in' & 'of' beekeeping. Newbies are certainly best served by buying the most current volumes (Summataro, Morse, Laidlaw, Crane, etc) but the old books still hold a wealth of info from beekeepers whom slept and ate with their bees. The greatest lesson I've learned from the old books is to simplify - something likely inherited with George's background but must be learned by new beekeepers. The old beekeepers used simple, hands-on, see what we have in the barn to fix this - approach. So there still is value in the old works even though today's successful management needs MUCH more than the old books can offer. ?Where can I find these books? 2 search engines currently available for both old & new books: www.bookfinder.com www.alibris.com (though I think bookfinder now searches alibris) & of course, ebay. Matthew Westall - EBees - Castle Rock, CO > I have recently added an Amazon link to our club website > (http://www.catskillbees.org) and I am looking to compile a list of books > for our members to order. I already have some, but I would be interested :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:04:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Logan VanLeigh Subject: Re: EKOBI Method for Crystallization of honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's in Swedish, not Swiss (which could be in German, Italian, or French depending on the location & mood of the author). The English version of the website is down at the listed URL. Anyone know a decent Swedish/English translator on the web? Logan TxBeeFarmer wrote: > Anyone here familiar with the EKOBI (Swiss) method for the crystallization > of honey - better know as creamed honey? > http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/research/kristall.htm > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:13:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Logan VanLeigh Subject: Re: EKOBI Method for Crystallization of honey # 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got to the English version: go to http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/index-f.html (NOTE: this is a frame version of the site. I have no idea how to do this outside the 'frame' world.) Then on the left side open the "Research" file by clicking on the "+" sign then open the "Honey" file the same way. Then click on "crystall-english". Logan TxBeeFarmer wrote: > Anyone here familiar with the EKOBI (Swiss) method :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:08:39 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Small Cell Bees in Top Bar Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 22/07/03 05:02:04 GMT Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: << I am beginning to see widening of the comb/bar spacing due to bees getting trapped & crushed between top bars. So far, it seems to be around an additional 1/8", which is not a problem. >> This can be a problem if you close up the bar to the next one by sliding it along. If you lift it slightly, by the depth of the bar, move it into position and then lower it into place any bees on the face of the bars will simply be pushed out of the way, above or below. However if the bar is lifted a little too high there is a chance of scissoring bees. Generally, when handling a TBH there is much less disturbance to the bees and so the beekeeper can take his time to move bars gently. It might help if the underside of the bars was bevelled on one side (or both) to reduce the area of contact between the bars so less bees will get trapped. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:44:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: TxBeeFarmer Organization: The Little ~ Coldiron Farm Subject: Re: EKOBI Method for Crystallization of honey # 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I found this one too, but it doesn't have the information about how much seed to mix with liquid honey - very important missing detail. Not sure what else it has that the English one doesn't have. Thanks (West Texas) Mark ----- Original Message ----- > I got to the English version: go to > > http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/index-f.html :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:23:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: beekeeper Organization: none Subject: Queen Excluders and Small Cell Conversion Comments: To: Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, irishbeekeeping@yahoogroups.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, While cleaning my bee shed this afternoon and moving a stack of queen excluders that I have never used, I began to wonder about the evolution, so to speak, to the bigger and better honey bee and the controversy of "to queen exclude or not to queen exclude. The anti-excluder group claim the bees do not traverse the excluder and therefore do not produce as much honey. My question, have the spaces in queen excluders been increased ever so slightly to accommodate the bigger, better bee? If not, they very well could become a deterrent to moving into honey supers simply due to size constraints. They obviously can move through but perhaps not as easily as when bees were smaller. Also, of the 6 packages I received this spring, 3 have superceded. They were SMR queens. Anyone else having this problem? Just wondering! Coleene :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 00:57:42 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Constance Still Subject: (no subject) Comments: To: L@listserv.albany.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have always found the handholds insufficient, and after my husbands stroke 10 years ago, he was unable to lift a super at all. So we went to the local hardware store and purchased door pulls such as those used for a screen door and screwed them in place on either side of the hive bodies. Now he can get a firm grip on the supers without worrying about them slipping and dropping a heavy box of honey or bees. This might not be economical for a large scale operation, but it kept these hobbiest beekeepers able to continue enjoying their hobby for many more years. Conni and Clifford Still, Bayport, Long Island,NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:38:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: EKOBI Method for Crystallization of honey # 2 Svensk is Swedish, not anything spoken in Switzerland. There is great advice from a Swede in the archives, in fact this material posted here is how I make my creamed honey which is a great seller. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:09:47 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: Favorite books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My list of books of significance (rather than those most often picked up for pure relaxation) starts with the small group of science-based books that illuminates the nature of the bee colony - and so what beekeeping is all about. Mark Winston, The Biology of the Honey Bee, Harvard University Press, 1987 Thomas Seeley, Honeybee Ecology, Princeton University Press, 1985 Thomas Seeley, The Wisdom of the Hive, Harvard University Press, 1995 A hint more historcal - but still very valuable - C R Ribbands, Behaviour and Social Life of Honeybees, Bee Reasarch Assn, 1953 Colin Butler, The World of the Honeybee, Collins, 1954 - numerous reprints and then of course L L Langstroth, The Hive and the Honey Bee, 1853 - facsimile edition Root, 1977 For reference, there is E B Wedmore, Manual of Beekeeping, Edward Arnold 1932, 2nd edn 1945 - still in print and, easier on the eye, Morse & Hooper, Illustrated Encyclopedia of Beekeeping, Blandford Press, 1985 Practical, 'how to do it', books are difficult to place in order - they tend to be scewed to the preferences of the author - u need to choose one that suits your particular circumstances and beekeepers vary so much. A generally trustworthy exception is Ted Hooper, Guide to Bees and Honey , Marston House, 1976 - 4th edn 1997 (post varooa update ). and an unusual (but stimulating) volume is Pierre Jean-Prost, Apiculture, Oxford & IBH Publishing Co, 1994 - a 650 pages translation of the 6th French edition 1987 of L'Apiculture:connaitre l'abbeille; conduire le rucher . That's 10! But to look to the future, when hopefully honey will be recognised as a health regulator and natural medicine, include, say Joe Traynor, Honey - The Gourmet Medicine, Kovak Books, 2002 P.S. Samuel Simmins, A Modern Bee Farm, was mentioned by Clay. The 3 edns , 1887 - 195 pages, 1904 - 400pp , 1928 - 500pp present the developing thoughts of a very original man over a period of 50 years. Way ahead of its time - blocked by the orthodoxy of Thomas Cowan's 50 year presidency of the British Beekeepers Assn. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:20:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: Small Cell Bees in a Top Bar Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > That is what I did in my TBH, as per Satterfeilds website. Worked great > - the bees seemed to work the face of the strip in a ddition to the edge > unlike some of the reports of them starting on the edge of foundation > and having a tenuous attachment to the bar. > > Keith I used 1/4" plywood strips in grooves (dados) in the top bars. I left about 1/4" exposed, and coated the strips with beeswax. It works well in that the bees seem to "know" exactly where to draw comb - they fill it out fully from side to side, and very straight. The only disadvantage so far is that this is the primary attachment point: the bees don't seem very inclined to "buttress" the top of the comb out against the bar to make it stronger. In fact, they seem to make a stronger connection to the sides of the hive than the top bar. The top bar combs (cross section) tend to look somewhat like this: ======= | | ===||=== *** *** *** *** *** * This is not a real problem as long as I'm careful in handling the combs. Next time I build TBH's I'll make the strips a little shallower, which I think should encourage a stronger connection to the top bar itself. Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:27:42 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: EKOBI Method for Crystallization of honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: TxBeeFarmer > > I found this one too, but it doesn't have the information about how much > seed to mix with liquid honey - very important missing detail. Sorry about that. I missed that in translation. You need between 0,5 and 3% starter to get the perfect fine crystalized honey. I'm using 0,5% at 3 ton batches. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 21:12:51 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Favorite books Clay said: > Not much has changed in the last 100 or so years > as far as basic bee management (more or less). I could not disagree more emphatically. Most any beekeeping book from the 1800s through the 1980s can illustrate why I disagree. Each will provide multiple specific examples of naive thinking and mistaken assumptions presented as "fact", unsupported by scientific proof. I like old books so much that I have nearly run out of walls for additional bookcases. I have a good number of old beekeeping books, among them early editions of both "The Hive and The Honey Bee" (Dadant) and "ABC & XYZ of Bee Culture" (AI Root). Having three or four editions of each is very instructive, but not in the way you might suspect. Right off the bat, one notices that both of these basic references got much thicker over time. If one compares sections in different editions that address the same subjects, one finds more extensive information, more statements that are backed up by citations to published papers and other scholarly works, and one notes that the language becomes less "vague" and more "specific and practical". > To say that these books are obsolete because they > don't talk about today's chemical trends seems rather > wrong to me. While older books may be interesting and entertaining, they are mostly useless from a practical standpoint, and the lack of coverage of "chemicals" has nothing to do with the scope or the depth of the uselessness. More has "changed" in the past few decades than the spread of exotic invasive diseases, parasites, and pests. Much more has been learned than how to use chemicals. As an extreme example, the old wife's tale about banging on a pan to "bring down a swarm" is often mentioned in old beekeeping books as if it were a reliable approach to catching a swarm. More recent books, if they even mention this, cite it only as a humorous aside. Only the more recent books can mention the use of pheremone lures and the research that has shown the minimum size criteria that bees apparently use when judging the merits of a cavity for a new hive. Yes, one might be able to keep bees in exactly the same manner as they were kept 100 years ago, and one might even have moderate success for a season or two if one is very lucky. But this is due more to the adaptability of bees than to any other factor. Bees are very tolerant of a wide range of outright abuse, and old beekeeping books can show one just how many different types of abuse were perpetrated against bees over the years. Here's a good rule of thumb. If the author is dead, so is his book. If alive, he can publish an updated edition. Also, living authors can answer questions. :) Beekeeping has progressed in a manner very similar to the progress in harvesting grain. Change has come slowly, and has been adopted only grudgingly by those accustomed to the "old ways": Straight knives used to cut grain date back to 9000 BC. Evidence of use of the curved "sickle" exists from about 2000 BC. http://www.renegadejuggling.jp/equipment/pic/sickle.jpg It was not until the 9th Century AD that someone worked out that by putting a longer handle on a sickle, they could avoid all the bending and stooping over to cut grain. This was the "scythe". It was revolutionary. One man could suddenly do the work of many. http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/scythe.gif Nothing much changed until the 1790s when an unknown farmer in the USA added long projecting fingers to his scythe which allowed him to deposit the cut grain in neat rows at one side of the swath he made, reducing the labor required to pick up the cut grain. This was the "cradle scythe". http://www.rosenet.org/metc/IMAGES/scythe.jpg The next improvement was the mechanical horse-drawn harvesters of the 1800s, capital equipment many orders of magnitude more expensive than the existing technology of scythes, but allowing much larger crops to be harvested with less labor than was required for the smaller field. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/lincolns/nation/images/gal_technology_reaperlg.jpg Then came "self-propelled" harvesting equipment, first steam powered, and then internal combustion. Again, speed and efficiency was increased. Modern equipment harvests, threshes, and winnows as it rolls across the field. Modern harvesters cost well over $150,000 US. A hand sickle can still be bought for about $10 US. You get what you pay for. Please note that a book on scythe sharpening would be of no use to someone who needed to fix a hydraulic leak on their John Deer 9550. http://www.deere.com/en_US/ProductCatalog/FR/media/images/photogallery/9650_4067 5_G.jpg Beekeeping has had a similar history. The improvements in production and efficiency gained by the discovery of "bee space" were as dramatic as the improvement gained with the development of the scythe. But additional knowledge beyond mere "bee space" has allowed us to abandon many of the misleading and false beliefs that have been long held by beekeepers. Horace Greeley, who was the editor of the "New York Tribune" in the 1850s, is said to have been touring France, where he came upon a large group of people harvesting grain with hand sickles in a very smallish field. He asked: "Why don't you use scythes? You could cut twice as much." The reply was: "We haven't got twice as much to cut." And that's the whole point. A basic decision faces every farmer and beekeeper, often yearly: Fail to keep up with new knowledge, and you can be trapped in a self-imposed, self-fulfilling prophesy, where you will be sure to NEVER be able to produce "twice as much". Trusting older beekeeping books, failing to read the periodicals, and neglecting to keep an eye on forums like Bee-L is certain to keep you stagnant, and limit your efficiency and production. The future "improvements" in beekeeping will likely be "expensive". The cost differential may be as extreme as the difference in cost delta between scythes and the first mechanical harvesters. The "improvements" may not even work very well at first, much like the initial offerings in mechanical harvesters. But the history of agriculture is full of wise men, who distrusted "newfangled" ways, laughed at the initial failures of new technology, and later provided the additional acreage that could be farmed by those who invested time and money in "newfangled" ways. Sadly, the transfer of land was often accomplished via the bankruptcy auction. Beekeepers, like gardeners, can stubbornly use whatever techniques and tools they wish for as long as they wish. They can even persist in whatever fantasies about bees they please. The bees likely won't notice, and will adapt to whatever conditions are imposed upon them. They might even thrive some years, leading the beekeeper to (most often, mistakenly) think that his techniques had something to do with it. But science has much to teach us, and I plan to listen very carefully. jim (Who keeps bees just as his father does, but only because they share notebooks!) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 01:52:35 +0100 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Trailer advice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I will be using a trailer behind a 3/4 ton 4*4 to deal with many of my beekeeping activities - would any person be willing to advice on what type to use/ not use etc. Gooseneck or Traditional ball hitch, length compared to load, axles and braking, flat bed material etc. etc. Thanks, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:50:42 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit for Pesticides MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all > An initial attempt to use the test kit in the UK > in front of a group of beekeepers did not result in > consistently "positive" results from a known > AFB-infected hive I have been away for a few days, attending the conference at Gormanson, so this reply may seem a little out of sequence. At the conference someone commented that... "The reason for the tests conducted not being fully positive, was that the samples were old" AFB is relatively rare in UK due to our burning policy and thus it can be difficult to provide fresh samples. Tests conducted during the conference were positive, but the indicator lines were visually weaker than expected. Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:37:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: I need some help - Hive Beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was told by our State Bee Inspector that this often works: Cut cardboard squares about four inches square. Place small rolls of tape on the corners of one side to act as "feet" to elevate it about 3/16" - 1/4" off the floor, and cover that side with tanglefoot (sticky stuff used on flypaper). Be careful not to get it on the tape. Place it sticky side down inside the hive (or some appropriate dark area in the honey house). Apparently the hive beetles are attracted to small, dark areas, and will crawl under these traps and get stuck. Check them occasionally, of course. I suppose that you could also combine the idea of the cardboard squares (without tanglefoot) with pieces of Check-Mite strips (like ant traps), which would minimize the amount of pesticide use, and maximize contact with the hive beetles. Hope this helps. Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:23:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Favorite books (slight digression) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Fischer wrote: > The future "improvements" in beekeeping will likely be "expensive". > The cost differential may be as extreme as the difference in > cost delta between scythes and the first mechanical harvesters. Brought back memories. I was responsible for the maintenance of ships in the US Pacific Fleet. Labor costs in Japan were three to four times the cost of labor in the Philippines but the Japanese shipyards were much more mechanized and used 1/3 to 1/4 the labor so our costs were the same for the same work. Quality was also better in the mechanized yards, so true cost was cheaper there, since you did not have to do the same job twice. In all of Jim's examples it is really the cost of labor that drove the improvements. Put scythes in the hands of laborers and pay them minimum wage and that $150,000 harvester looks cheap. Same with beekeeping on a commercial scale. The less labor intensive you are the more profit you will garner. Most of the support for older books will come from hobby beekeepers who do not factor labor into their costs. I saw a Philippino cutting a small area of grass with scissors. It took him an hour or two to cut where a mower would do the same job in seconds. He did not have a mower. Same with most hobby Beekeepers. We can use older techniques only until we scale up. I started honey extraction by crushing combs and hanging them in pantyhose to drain (that technique made it into an article in Organic Farms and Gardening some ten years ago). It was time consuming and I did not get much honey, but lots of wax. When I purchased an extractor (much more expensive than pantyhose) the results were reversed dramatically as was the time it took to extract honey. Just look at the different methods of Varroa control that have come on the scene in the past year. Oxalic Acid has gone from a labor intensive drip method to a vaporizer which is cost competitive with strips on a hobby beekeeper level and much cheaper compared to the labor required of strips on a commercial level (if it were certified). Jim's other comment on reading live authors is also good advice. Will not mention the author, but I have his first edition and latest book on a specific beekeeping technique and they are quite different. He learned. It is fun to read the older books, but if I want to know what I should do today, the more current books are where I would turn (after an internet search on the subject). Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:51:20 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Trailer advice > I will be using a trailer behind a 3/4 ton 4*4 ... OK, but please - ONLY for a small trailer and a small number of hives. We'd rather not read about you in the papers. The basic problem is net "payload weight" limits imposed by the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of trucks. For example, a Ford "Crew Cab" long bed looks like a fairly beefy truck parked in your driveway, but it really can't pull any serious loads, like a trailer with 2 horses or a dozen hives. Anyone can do the math, and the numbers are on the inside of the driver's door: The truck weighs about 6800 lbs. Add two beekeepers... 300 lbs. Add a hive tool and snacks, say 100 lbs. The total for the above, 7200 lbs. A typical Ford 2500 has a GVWR of 86-8800 lbs, so it might seem that you have at least 1000 lbs for the "tongue weight" of the trailer and load, but trailer makers will tell you that you never want to exceed 85% of the GVWR. But 85% of 8600 is 7310, so you are really limited to a tongue load of no more than... 110 pounds. :) That's right - most "light trucks" can barely support their OWN mass plus a few passengers, and comparing the vehicle weight with the GVWR exposes just how wimpy they really are. Why do you THINK they call them "light trucks"? Its like "light armored vehicles" where mere sheet metal is provided to "protect" the passengers from RPGs and 50-caliber rounds. As a matter of general principle, stay away from anything where "light" or "lite" is part of the name. Sour cream, salad dressing, beer... just say no. Life is too short. Enjoy the real thing. The hegemony of automatic transmissions (the tyranny of the tranny?) forces further de-rating of GVWR, unless you are very good at pulling a burnt-out gearbox and swapping in a rebuilt every year. In fact, my Volvo wagons have better vehicle weight to GVWR ratios than most of the "light trucks" out there, and the one I use for hauling bees has a manual 5-speed transmission, so I can pull a load up the steep mountain roads found here in the southwestern corner of Virginia without problems. As another hint, wheelbase determines the length of trailer you can tow. The general rule of thumb is that 110 inches of wheelbase permits you to tow a 20 foot long trailer. Add a foot of trailer for each addition 4 inches of wheel base. Yet another hint. WELD the trailer hitch to the frame. Stay away from "bolt on" hitches, and the ones with the quick-release detachable ball. You wanna change the ball on your hitch? Get out a big wrench. Don't be lazy. Too many fine horses have died painful deaths from bad choices made by guys suffering from testosterone poisoning who failed to do their math. I like horses. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:00:49 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit for AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We were given two kits to demonstrate at Gormanstown, we actually read the instructions which say that a larva suspected of being diseased is to be removed intact and transferred to the bottle of buffer solution. (I do not think that scale material or would necessarily work as I think that the bacteria is supposed to be in the vegetative state, not sporulated.) This is then shaken for 20 seconds and three drops placed in the test. One line shows the test is running, if there is a second line, no matter how faint within three minutes the test is positive. We did the tests on Wednesday and Thursday, the sample of comb was removed from the hive on the previous Thursday, so as you may imagine any larvae present were not in good condition. Both test were positive ( the lines were very faint). Microscope slides made from the scale in the combs showed the spores. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Vita's new field testing kit for AFB > > Yes, but this was not a small sample from a hive. It was dug out of several > cells in a heavily > infected comb - confirmed, although no-one would have needed it, by the NBU > laboratory. The cells had all the classic symptoms - perforated cappings, > scale etc. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:49:16 +0100 Reply-To: max.watkins@vita-europe.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Max Watkins Subject: Vita AFB Diagnostic Kit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear All, What a lot of fuss over one remark! I've just returned from vacation and read the backlog on the "terribly-expensive-and-will-never-be-used-by-beekeepers-anyway Vita AFB Field Diagnostic Kit". Let me just say that Vita have no intention of forcing anyone to use this kit, to twist your arm, extract teeth or anything else. I have been looking at diagnostic kits for AFB and for EFB for some years and through collaboration with the National Bee Unit here in the UK we have come up with a reliable, simple method of detection. The kit is meant to HELP beekeepers confirm AFB (or EFB) in their colonies. Nothing else. If you don't want to use the kit, don't buy it. But it's not even on the market yet so you can't, even if you do! It will be launched at Apimondia in August. They are so new they aren't even on our website yet. The kit has taken several years to develop and is based on sound, patented technology; the kit itself resembles a small pregnancy test kit. For those beekeepers who have never been pregnant or been in the vicinity of a potentially pregnant person in the past 30 years or so, this is a rectangular piece of plastic with a "window" cut in the middle of it, through which you can see an absorbent strip. As a liquid is introduced into a small "well" at one end of the device it flows along the strip. In pregnancy kits there is a point in the strip that reacts to substances in the liquid sample and shows up as a coloured line, if the user is pregnant, or not, if she isn't. These kits are pretty fail-safe these days. Our AFB kit works by recognition of monoclonal antibodies specific to American Foulbrood which are impregnated onto the central absorbent strip. There are no toxic chemicals or any such like involved. If a sample of AFB infected material is macerated by shaking in a sample bottle and introduced into the well of one of our kits, the liquid will flow down the strip until it gets to a certain point where a blue Control line will automatically appear (to prove that the test is physically working). Where AFB is present in the sample a second blue Test line will also appear. Where there is no AFB, no second line will show up. These kits have been through stringent validation in a number of countries and especially so by the National Bee Unit in the UK so that the efficacy can be given as 98%+. The Bee Inspectors here are confident in the methodology and will be relying heavily on these kits for diagnoses in the field. The kit obviates the need for laboratory analysis. I suspect that the erroneous kit that Peter saw must have been one of the first old prototypes which do show the second line but it was sometimes very faint. Clarity of the line has improved in newer prototypes. This has been enhanced in the final kits and we have had no false negatives nor false positives. The Vita EFB Field Diagnostic Kit has been finalised this month and like the AFB kit will be launched at Apimondia, Slovenia in August. Many beekeepers will have absolutely no wish to even look at these diagnostic tools; we have developed them as an aid to those beekeepers, inspectors, researchers etc who may wish to have confirmation perhaps of their own initial diagnosis and for those who aren't so experienced to be able to detect and learn about these important diseases also. This is not what you might call a "mass market", but we believe in trying to keep bees alive, wherever they are. The initial response to these diagnostic kits in Europe has been very positive as have the results from the limited testing in other parts of the world so far. The kits are manufactured to a high specification at a specialist laboratory called Pocket Diagnostics based within the UK government Central Science Laboratory at York. These instruments may not be as cheap as a matchstick test for AFB but we are talking about a different thing altogether. (I am accordingly in negotiation for the price of matches to increase dramatically). Max Dr Max Watkins Vita (Europe) Limited 21/23 Wote Street Basingstoke Hampshire RG21 7NE UK Tel.: +44 (0) 1256 473177 Fax: +44 (0) 1256 473179 e-mail: max.watkins@vita-europe.com web: http://www.vita-europe.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:06:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Favorite books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All By far the most consulted book on my shelves (and I have more than 350) is... A Manual of Beekeeping - E. B. Wedmore The beekeeping encyclopeadia by hooper and morse is very useful, as is Eva Crane's 'Beekeeping'. I would also recommend 'A Modern Bee Farm' written by Sammuel Simmins in the 1880s... This book will show that there is not much that is 'new' in beekeeping. A more recent book that I often consult was written by a friend of mine, John Atkinson, the title 'Background to Bee Breeding'. ABC & XYZ by Root is good, but it's content varies according to year of publishing. Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:44:52 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: waldig@NETZERO.COM Subject: Re: Queen Excluders and Small Cell Conversion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>Also, of the 6 packages I received this spring, 3 have superceded. They were SMR queens. Anyone else having this problem? Not with SMR but I ordered a NWC queen a few weeks ago from a reputable breeders. She was tiny (it seemed the attendants were larger) but I had to install her. She has been superceded. It's seems like a waste of time and money but I guess this happens. I wish breeders had better acceptance criteria for the queens they ship. I am thinking about raising my own queens next season. Waldemar Long Island, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:00:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brent Farler Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 26 Jul 2003 to 27 Jul 2003 (#2003-208) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >ABC(& ABC/XYZ) of Beekeeping - AI Root - Cyclopedia A-Z on beekeeping - updated every 5-10 years just as the H&H. -Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think either work has been updated to include Varroa in the current editions.- Recently purchased current edition #40 (1990)includes discussion of Varroa but does not discuss resistance to chemicals or small cell approaches to control. It does discuss Varroa resistance in Africanized bees and relationship between Varroa and development time. This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:33:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roy Nettlebeck Organization: Tahuya River Apiaries Subject: Re: Favorite books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GImasterBK@AOL.COM wrote: > >I think every beginner would be wise to have and STUDY Diana Sammataro's 3rd >Edition, 1998, of the Beekeeper's Handbook. The drawings of bees, brood, >pollen, > > >You are never too old to LEARN, but too many people are too LAZY to learn. > > Hello George and All, > I had a face to face talk with one of the lead researchers from Baton Rouge about the Russian bees. There will be an article coming out in the ABJ about management changes needed to work the Russian bee. If you follow the books that are written , you will have many problems. Behavior is different. They keep queen cells around , just in case they need a queen. They tear them down before the queen is mature. It has taken me 3 years to get a better understanding of these bees. It was not in books or publications. I know very little about the honey bee.It is very complex. That is why I enjoy them so much. The beekeepers Handbook is very good. It gives you a starting point. You need to put the time into the bees to gain an understanding. Diana did a great job on 3rd. edition. Your job is to lean by doing and you will get real knowledge. Keep the brain running or you will loose it. Age is a date on a calendar. Not control over your mind. Best Regards Roy Nettlebeck PS George , is a Blessing to this list. > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:13:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Favorite books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave said: I would also recommend 'A Modern Bee Farm' written by Sammuel Simmins in the 1880s... This book will show that there is not much that is 'new' in beekeeping. I grew up in beekeeping. Most farms had hives of bees. Other than remove the honey little care was given. Beekeeping was easy! Not so today! I had a call this morning from a new beekeeper wanting to know if the largest sellers of bees/nucs in our area were reliable as he had went to a different beekeeper each year for the last five years restocking his hives which either died or swarmed each year. Brief description of some of his methods. He said he had used menthol cough drops slid in the entrance to control tracheal mites. He had used screened bottom boards for varroa control (as per internet) but refused to use chemicals. He said he had bought a couple frames of drone brood foundation from Dadant for each hive to control varroa and had removed and destroyed the drone cells at least once each year. Never fed his bees as was sure they would store enough to winter. When I asked about what he found in his deadouts in spring he described bees with heads in cells. I saw many problems with his beekeeping but I believe you get the idea. He obviously needed to find a mentor! If as Dave says "This book (1880's) will show there is not much that is new in beekeeping" Then why have the numbers of commercial beekeepers dropped to record lows and so many new beekeepers are having trouble keeping their hives alive? Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:42:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 26 Jul 2003 to 27 Jul 2003 (#2003-208) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brent said: Recently purchased current edition #40 (1990)includes discussion of Varroa but does not discuss resistance to chemicals or small cell approaches to control. Kim told me last fall the new edition is close to being released. Maybe Kim will provide an update. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:13:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Layne Westover Subject: Re: Favorite books (old ways versus new ways of doing things) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am of the opinion that much of what beekeepers might choose to do in their management of bees will be affected by goals, circumstances, and resources. The methodologies and techniques used to produce raw "organic" unheated, unfiltered hobbyist honey might vary from those used by a commercial producer producing for the mass market. There are economies of scale that enter into calculations and decision making. I have no need for an expensive radial extractor or an automated uncapping system. I sure would not want to use top bar hives in a large scale commercial honey operation with thousands of hives, but I personally can tell the difference in taste between my "crushed comb" (cold pressed) honey and my extracted honey. Ultra heated and ultra filtered honey tastes different yet. Each item might also bring a different price. I always charge more than is charged for the mass produced product. I would hate to have to try and make a living from beekeeping, so I am willing to take losses that would put commercial beekeepers out of business. Since I don't HAVE to be successful, and my livelihood does not depend on my beekeeping I can use less expensive and more primitive methods and equipment and still achieve the results I want to have. There are costs and benefits associated with each management decision we make. Sometimes the costs are higher than the benefits that result from a particular decision. I wouldn't dream of trying to run a commercial operation the way I do things, but my goals are different and I'm satisfied with the results I obtain. This is not a "one size fits all" activity. Layne Westover College Station, Texas :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:54:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > At the conference someone commented that... > "The reason for the tests conducted not being fully positive, > was that the > samples were old" Does one infer from this that the test kit is solely for the vegetative stage of AFB and not of use when testing scale? Aaron Morris - wishing I had been at Gormanston to ask first hand! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 02:48:46 +0100 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Re: Favorite books (old ways versus new ways of doingthings) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bee books: old and useful Comparing old texts to those that are considered upto date - when having read a wide selection of what is available - the older ones help set the activity into a perspective. It is instructive to read how techniques etc. were developed, became fashionable and then possibly became redundant. Texts may be lined up on a bookshelf - producing a type of life line of beekeeping. I presume that this is the reasoning behind the creation of "archives" - as seen in our own Bee-L structure. I note that their contents are not deleted after a time span determined by utility. Those interested in weather: Drought conditions covering most of France - with the S.E. of the country being burnt away at rather a rapid rate at the moment. Regards to all, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:22:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brandon Clayton Subject: "Washboard movement" at entrances I did a search of the BEE-L archives for "washboard movement," but only found one reference to it. (The author suggests that it may be related to a swarming impulse.) I would like to share some observations: Last year I had a hive in which nearly every bee seemed preoccupied with making the washboard motion (head bent down, "pawing" at the board with their front legs, and rocking front to back). It died, with no trace of any bees. This year, I have a direct descendant from the hive which died. It is also heavily preoccupied, as are a number of other hives to varying degrees, all of which have queens which could have mated with drones from the original "washboard" colony. However, if it truly is a genetic defect, then why does it occur only in late summer, and not in the spring? This has led me to speculate that it could be mild poisoning by tansy ragwort or some other plant, or tainted water. Many questions, and I'd love your answers if you have had any experience with this: 1. Is it genetic? 2. If it is genetic, is it a malady, or is it unimportant? 3. Could it, alternatively, be a syptom of a disease, virus, or poisoning? 4. Could it be a hygenic behavior which supresses mites? (I haven't noticed the usual buildup of mites this year.) The last time I treated was in the fall with Apistan. 5. If it is genetic, could it be a regression to a wood chewing behavior of a wasp-like anscestor (the movement looks similar to that of wasps/hornets scraping wood to build their paper nests)? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 21:34:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Queen Excluders and Small Cell Conversion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Waldemar, You said "reputable breeder". Sue Cobey who is the developer of NWC only sells breeder queens to 6 breeders, hand selected by her for their knowledge and integrity. I doubt that tour "reputable breeder" was a licensed breeder for NWC, and if they are, you should report your problem to Sue Cobey. Our "bee world" is filled with thousands of queen "producers" who know little more about queens than money; and unfortunately, there are just a precious few queen "breeders", like Sue Cobey, whose only interest if BETTER queens and not money. Hopefully, one of these days, beekeepers will abandon these "con" men who profess they know something about the scientific part of genetic queen breeding, and then look for the real expert, knowledgeable breeders, and we beekeepers will be so much better off. I doubt that I will live that long, but who knows? George Imirie Certified EAS Master Beekeeper This is my 71st year of beekeeping near the White House in Maryland and Virginia Converted my 60 colonies of Italians to all Carniolans in 1948 (55 year ago) and "discovered" Sue Cobey and New World Carnies over 20 years ago Past President of Maryland State Beekeepers Founder and still President (18 years) of Montgomery County Beekeepers Assn. with 150 paid members meeting monthly and 10 Master Beekeepers. Author of George's month;y PINK PAGES found on any of 5 Websites like www.beekeeper.org/george_imirie/index.html Author of American Beekeeping Federation Newsletter Hobbyist Tips :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 21:55:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: Supersedure [was Queen Excluders and Small Cell Conversion] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Also, of the 6 packages I received this spring, 3 have superceded. They > were SMR queens. Anyone else having this problem? > Just wondering! > Coleene > I have also had unusual problems with supersedure/swarming this year. Three of six nucs (mixed race) have been trying desperately to supersede, and I lost two swarms from these hives about two weeks ago. These 1st year hives had plenty of space, so should not have swarmed. Supersedure attempts did not stop after re-queening the swarmed hives with New World Carniolans. I also have a second year hive I re-queened with a NW Carniolan in June which has been trying to supersede. I heard that others in Vermont have had similar problems this year. My suspicion is Coumaphos. I don't use it, but with Apistan resistance on the rise (as well as hive beetles), I'm sure that all the nucs I bought this year were treated with it, and probably the California queen breeders that are the source for the NWC's also (input, anyone?). I have read some analyses of Coumaphos effects on queens. The bits that I've read don't look good. I decided to put the queens and some brood from the affected hives (as a safety) in nuc boxes, and let the hives hatch new queens. I plan to watch for a while if/when the new queens begin laying. If the new queens are OK, I'll kill the old queens, and combine the temporary nucs with the main hives, although I might experiment with two queen hives for a bit. An observation possibly noteworthy: I tried a simple (but not very scientific) experiment. I took a queen from one of the stronger hives that was trying to supersede, and placed it on drawn comb in a medium, and then placed it over an excluder on top of another strong hive that was trying to supersede. My thinking was that perhaps the amount of queen essence was an issue, so two laying queens might alleviate the problem. No dice. In fact, I went back two days after this manipulation, and found lots of eggs in the medium (and the lower deeps), but also a queen cell. It seems that the presence of that queen in the top medium triggered the attendant/nurse bees to build a queen cell there, but not in the medium below the excluder (where neither queen had travelled). Might there be some pheromone trigger coming from the "defective" queens that prompts queen cell building? I don't have much experience running two queen hives, but this seemed odd. Again, any thoughts? Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::