From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:22:11 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-89.8 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 376E348FE4 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDAZdg011456 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0308B" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 135420 Lines: 3035 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 22:35:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Unqueenable hive? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don said: So I place a frame of new eggs from another hive with this one just to make sure. Two weeks later they are all capped, no queen cups?? I thought, they must have a queen; she just hasn't been laying yet- this was about July 17. When queenless they will *usually* build queen cells BUT not always. I still agree with Don that the hive would seem to be queenright as no cells were built. Don said: I went back to this hive today (aug 7) no eggs, only capped drone cells in a tight pattern! The drone cells in a tight pattern is not typical of laying workers. If I were to guess I would say the old queen is still in the hive with strong pheromones but is a drone layer. Don said: So I intend to place this broodless hive on top of a split, with a good queen, using the newspaper method. One problem could arise if the above hive is put on top and has a drone layer and that is she will most likely be the queen to survive. Check again or run the bees through a queen excluder before combining or put the above hive on the bottom and the hive with the queen you want on top. The bees will tolerate a drone laying queen at times until the hive crashes *if* she has strong pheromones. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 20:42:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Unqueenable hive? I agree with Lionel. Having spent hours in the archives on this list, and then doing my own trials based on what I learned, I think it fairly easy to introduce a queen into a drone laying hive if you put at least two frames of mixed brood in with her, and lots of smoke, and scratching some honey comb with your hive tool to give the bees something to do besides killing your new queen. But as he said, the method you propose has a very high percentage chance of working. Depending on your history and location, make sure that Foul Brood didn't kill your queen. If you think that was a possible cause of her death, put one of those medicated patties in between your the two boxes when you add the top one. Regards Tim Vaughan :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 06:33:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Unqueenable hive? In-Reply-To: <200308080042.h77NvO5X021689@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > make sure that Foul Brood didn't >kill your queen. If you think that was a possible cause of her death, put >one of those medicated patties in between your the two boxes when you add >the top one. Can AFB, a brood disease, kill the queen? Also...personally, I would never treat active AFB with anything but a match. Mike > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 07:37:27 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Unqueenable hive? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does Foul Brood kill adult bees? I thought that death occurred at the sealed cell stage or just before it. The colony then dies out from a lack of new bees. Ruary Rudd "Tim Vaughan" said make sure that Foul Brood didn't kill your queen. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 22:15:25 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Healthcare of bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Keith & All, > Honey, with its variable coposition will never be accepted by maintstream medicine. It will be stidued, and the active ingredients/formulation will simply be repackaged in such a was as to ensure consistancy. Or it will be dropped depending on how efficaceous it turns out to be. > Ode to the Money Machine. Why not to just plain old honey? . .. c(((([ Keith Malone Chugiak, Alaska USA Caucasian Bee Keeper alaskabeekeeper@hotmail.com http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ Check out current weather in my area and 5 day forecast; http://www.wx.com/myweather.cfm?ZIP=99654 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 22:03:14 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Healthcare of bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Keith & All, >> But >>even if there is nothing unique to honey, there is still the question of >>delivery. We know nurse bees eat pollen and honey >> > Watered honey or preferentially nectar. This is an important detail > If the bees were presented with watered honey and/or sugar syrup which would they prefer? . .. c(((([ Keith Malone Chugiak, Alaska USA Caucasian Bee Keeper alaskabeekeeper@hotmail.com http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ Check out current weather in my area and 5 day forecast; http://www.wx.com/myweather.cfm?ZIP=99654 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 21:59:50 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Healthcare of bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Keith, Robin & All, >> I have been challenged to name some component in honey NOT available to bees >> through pollen. That of course I cannot do, not being a scientist. >> > It is the core question. > Robin, KeithB. wants to hear the answer of "NO", so we understand that research has not found anything yet. I have faith that someday researchers will look earnestly at the components of honey and find that missing link. Like I have stated before, the bees I keep appear to keep themselves better on honey. That regardless as to whether I know the difference or not. . .. c(((([ Keith Malone Chugiak, Alaska USA Caucasian Bee Keeper alaskabeekeeper@hotmail.com http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ Check out current weather in my area and 5 day forecast; http://www.wx.com/myweather.cfm?ZIP=99654 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 21:43:14 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Healthcare of bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, > It is far better from a disease spread > standpoint to feed syrup than honey. > I do think it was Robins point to leave honey not to feed honey. To give my point of view, I stand for the most part with what Robin's point is to leave bees with Honey for the winter. My own experience with bees is they winter better on honey here in Alaska, and I know this is contrary to research data. I find that bees have a hard time curing syrup after the honey is pulled and sugar fed with our temperatures dropping on a daily basis after the honey flow is over. Also, it would appear that the colonies are more vigorous in the spring. Whether honey is better or not than artificial honey is of no concern of mine. I have learned on my own that bees fair better with honey through winter. I do not treat my bees so any honey on the hive dead or alive is honey and can be dealt with as honey, just like in the old days. Since leaving honey on the hives I have had a less mortality rate in winter and the task of sugar syrup is nill. I do not even feed hived package bees sugar syrup, I just give them combs with part honey to live on. Isn't it just terrible having bees eat only honey and pollen, it's a wonder I keep bees at all. On the other hand maybe it's the small bees I keep that is responsible for their success. Who knows, who cares, maybe the bees care? I think that traditional beekeeping is the answer to my bees success! . .. c(((([ Keith Malone Chugiak, Alaska USA Caucasian Bee Keeper alaskabeekeeper@hotmail.com http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ Check out current weather in my area and 5 day forecast; http://www.wx.com/myweather.cfm?ZIP=99654 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:48:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Healthcare of bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keith Malone wrote: > Hi Keith & All, > > >>Honey, with its variable coposition will never be accepted by > > maintstream medicine. It will be stidued, and the active > ingredients/formulation will simply be repackaged in such a was as to > ensure consistancy. Or it will be dropped depending on how efficaceous > it turns out to be. > Ode to the Money Machine. Why not to just plain old honey? I treated my hand after a major operation with honey and under a Doctor's supervision. I posted the results on this list. Honey works, but I see little future in its use other than in a hospital setting. Even then, there are other medications that are as effective and less messy. Plus, modern and less- modern medicine has been using a much cheaper alternative which is a saturated sugar solution. The literature on that goes way back. There are some countries (maybe only one- China) which use honey in treating burn victims. But those countries are not ones I would go to for treatment, including the common cold. I could use honey on my wound because I did not mind changing my dressings much more often than I would have using modern drugs. I would guarantee that most other patients would either reject honey because it is not easy to use, or not use it properly and end up worse than if they used a modern, easy to use drug. Honey does work, but modern medicine has not rejected it because of money. There are cheaper and as (or more) effective alternatives. Including sugar syrup. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 08:46:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Unqueenable hive? I thought I'd read somewhere that it can affect adult bees, and since the queen lives longer is more likely to reach the stage where she sickens from it. Wasn't there a study which showed that as the bee matures it takes a greater number of spores to infect it? I've also noticed a high number of my hives which have AFB are queenless, although that of course doesn't prove anything. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 11:41:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: yoonytoons Subject: Drought and Late Swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bee Folks: I am tired of reading one man’s gospel that we all should keep bees the way *he* does it; therefore, let me diffuse this absurdly hot issue by introducing another topic: the possible connection between drought and August mini-swarms. As we have already noted earlier, almost all my NWC from CA have supercedured and a number of them even spun off mini-swarms, the size of two fists put together, in the process. On the one hand I am happy that they are splitting after extraction; on the other, I am unhappy now that goldenrods will bloom in about two weeks. We had a cold May this year, followed by a severe drought, a nasty combination that reduced the crop to nearly nil; only strong colonies managed to produce surplus, averaging about 60 lbs of honey. To maximize yeild, I have not even touched one yard in the alfalfa fields. Invariably a stressed plant would bloom at the wrong time, and I wonder if the bees are doing the same. I captured a few late swarms to use as nucs, but their timing is really weird since there is very little flow before goldenrods. Have you observed an increased swarming activity during drought? I am feeding my bees RELIGIOUSLY. Yoon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:48:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Unqueenable hive? In-Reply-To: <200308081246.h78Ckq4J003724@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > I've also noticed a high >number of my hives which have AFB are queenless, although that of course >doesn't prove anything. Are they just hopeless cases, trying to correct the problem by superceding? Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:41:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: AL Subject: Re: Drought and Late Swarms In-Reply-To: <200308081541.h78Epk7J006214@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yoonytoons wrote: > > I am feeding my bees RELIGIOUSLY. yeah, I'm doin' my share of prayin' too... AL :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 01:23:35 +0100 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Beekeepers and treatments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As reported in "Apis_Newsletter" August 8, 2003 Apis Newsletter EAS meeting: .... Honey bees are in crisis, Dr. Spivak said in her acceptance address, and beekeepers are not helping them much. Bees are certified "junkies" and beekeepers have become their "pushers." A new set of rules is necessary to get the bees off the chemical / pesticide treadmill. Her advice was direct and to the point:..... Seeing where these comments were coming from - is it not a trifle rich to hammer into beekeepers who are now reacting to new diagnostic techniques and levels of detection, when abounding in the phytosanitary market, new, more toxic substances are being developed and marketed. Bees are being wiped out, with all consequences attached. With rather limited in legal redress, tonnes of material designed to kill out right are distributed in the areas that the bees are expected to perform. I find it hard to swallow such statements, again reported in above mentioned newsletter that a researcher may state that "Pesticides "pamper" bees; and we should effectively let them use there own innate defense mechanisms. How many generations will in take to become immune to the present generation of systemic insecticides? - not taking into account the constant development that is taking place to enhance their performance. So, thinking - Who is working for who? - Let us work towards IPM, but at the same time as the rest of the Agricultural system plays the same game! Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 19:16:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Unqueenable hive? "Are they just hopeless cases, trying to correct the problem by superceding?" I don't think so, Michael. I got the bulk of my 100 or so hives 2 years ago this October, and as I think you know I'd been working scuts in Africa before that. We didn't have anything close to internet access, so when we came back to the states, we pretty much had to start from scratch when it came to modern bee problems. Especially as the hives I bought (cheap and with a harvest) had up to 14 mites per drone larva, and AFB everywhere. I started by nuking the mites, and that of course helped with the AFB and several other things, and the treated grease patties got the AFB under control. I find what one of the old timers had to say is happening, that I'll have to fight it for two or three years, and then it will be just standard preventitive treatments. But on the occasions I see AFB rearing it's head there have been lots of queenlessness. I must say that now I'm wondering if it was the Checkmite, but as I see it I had no choice, and on the whole my bees are more and more healthy and productive all the time. Regards :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 18:25:00 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Poor Spring Foraging MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 08/08/03 05:03:39 GMT Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: << It would be silly to accuse a beekeeper of having "taken too much honey" last fall, and not leaving enough honey to sustain the bees through the poor foraging conditions that extended from April through July in parts of the USA. Even a colony from which no honey was harvested last year would have certainly eaten through 100% of stores by late May under these conditions. >> Jim, Is there any correlation between numbers of hives kept in a small area and the relative difficulty in getting them through lean times? Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 14:33:08 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Healthcare of bees MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Bill, > Even then, there are other medications that are as effective > and less messy. Not always. Honey has been used successfully in studies of stubborn infections that would not respond to other treatments. I don't know about a supersaturated sugar solution. And, no, I do not have a source. This is hearsay, but I believe it has come up on the list in the past. Tom Elliott Chugiak, AK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 09:23:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ross Langlands Subject: Healthcare of bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" "Honey, with its variable coposition will never be accepted by maintstream medicine. It will be stidued, and the active ingredients/formulation will simply be repackaged in such a was as to ensure consistancy. Or it will be dropped depending on how efficaceous it turns out to be." Mainstream medicine is already using honey in proprietary dressings. We use Honey Tulle for resistant ulcers of the legs and ankles whether they are caused by circulatory problems or by diabetes. The antiseptic effect is useful where they have been colonised by resistant bacteria and can be used in combination with maggots to clear out necrotic tissue. Ross Langlands GP Scotland ********************************************************************** The information contained in this message may be confidential or legally privileged and is intended for the addressee only, If you have received this message in error or there are any problems please notify the originator immediately. The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. ********************************************************************** :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 08:36:06 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Alan Riach Subject: Sugar syrup or Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The debate on whether sugar syrup is better than honey will long go on. However I believe that winter survivability and early spring build up is much more influenced by the amount of pollen which the bees manage to pack away in autumn. Here in Scotland we have a late nectar and pollen source called Ling Heather which produces a much sought after honey which is characterised by being strong tasted and high in protein. It has a very thixotropic consistency.The bees are normally moved to hilly moorland areas for the heather. Even when there is no great surplus the bees fill the brood frames and provide themselves with a good amount of winter stores. However on occasion I have taken surplus frames of heather honey and fed it to colonies which were not put to the heather and this has always led to trouble with dysentery and on occasion colony death. It seems that heather honey is ok as a winter feed but only for bees which have gathered heather in the autumn and gradually become used to it. In this special case honey seems to be not better than sugar. Has any other heather area beekeepers noticed this? Naturally I no longer feed heather honey to "non heather gatherers" Alan Riach Edinburgh :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 07:34:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Unqueenable hive? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now we are hearing more of the story, Queen larvae are more susceptible to AFB infection (Bailey & Ball , Honey Bee Pathology), so if the infected colony swarms the queen larva /pupa is most like to be infected and to die after sealing. Of course the swarm will have flown as the cell is sealed. Ruary Result no Queen. "Tim Vaughan" said > Especially as the hives I bought (cheap and > with a harvest) had up to 14 mites per drone larva, and AFB everywhere. > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 14:16:59 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: selected queens for wax production In-Reply-To: <009601c3577a$e01bf0e0$7604c518@gollum> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does any one know a breeder selecting queens for wax production ? Hervé Canada ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 07:54:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Comments: cc: Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, irishbeekeeping@yahoogroups.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The other day, Kirk Webster and I were comparing notes on our bee work for the summer. He said something that I would like to share. He has been raising Russian bees since 1999, and many of his colonies haven't been treated for varroa for two or more years. It seems his bees are doing something that he calls "brilliant." He mentioned that many of his bees had swarmed. Now, the flow wasn't strong in his area of the state. I wondered why they were swarming, when they didn't have a flow on. Kirk thinks that they are using swarming to keep the varroa population down. Here's how they do it. First, the colony swarms. They leave the brood and most of the varroa behind. Second, the new queen in the parent colony doesn't start to lay until all the brood from the old queen has hatched. Has anyone else seen this? Normally, there is still brood in the colony when the new queen begins to lay, wouldn't you say? Whether or not this behavior is a varroa defence I don't know, but it seems like it would help. Comments? Mike St. Albans, Vermont :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 08:10:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Poor Spring Foraging In-Reply-To: <4e.20313c01.2c657d3c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >Is there any correlation between numbers of hives kept in a small area and >the relative difficulty in getting them through lean times? > > Chris, I've kept bees in yards of between 15 and 60 colonies. It would seem that there must be a saturation point where the area is overstocked. This is probably so, but... I have found that in lean times they all suffer...no matter how many colonies there are, and in times of plenty, they all make honey. I now try to keep 30 colonies in my yards...mostly for my benefit. Depending upon the task at hand, working bees in large yards can mean an all day job...or longer...in the same yard. I prefer to get the yard worked...before robbing gets too bad, and move on to the next location. Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 17:21:19 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Sugar syrup or Honey Alan said: > heather honey is ok as a winter feed but only for bees which have > gathered heather in the autumn and gradually become used to it. In this > special case honey seems to be not better than sugar. > Has any other heather area beekeepers noticed this? We usually take bees to the heather in Yorkshire, having missed only 2 years in the last 20 (one when there was Foot & Mouth and nobody wanted you on their land). Although the crop is variable, colonies always feed themselves well for winter and rarely need much extra feed - perhaps 5-6lbs of fondant. Wintering has been excellent, except for one year, and in the spring we can always tell the heather colonies - they are the strongest. This probably due to several factors: the late flush of young bees due to the heather flow, the loss of the old foragers (possibly carrying disease) on the heather and the protein rich stores which are then used for brood rearing in the following spring. However, my understanding is that heather honey contains much more pollen than other honey and can lead to severe problems during the winter if the bees are unable to fly; fortunately, in this area, we usually have regular open days during the winter so this is not a usually a problem - our one bad year was when the bees were unable to fly for many weeks. Peter Edwards (very happy that he moved his bees to the heather last weekend and that it has been wonderful weather ever since - 31C here today - and the fridge is full of cold beer!) beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 10:07:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Howard Kogan Subject: SWARMING and MORE SWARMING In the spring I started two new hives from locally purchased nucs. They started out strong but first one swarmed (it had plenty of room in the hive) and then the second one swarmed and both have continued to throw small after swarms almost all season long! Two other hives one of my own from the prior year and another I started with a package are both behaving normally. Even if the queen may have been defective as discussed in earlier messages re; NWC queens and they were superceded; why would the hives just keep throwing swarms all summer long? Could the weather be a factor? I am east of Albany, New York and it has been the wettest summer in many years. Any thoughts? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 20:24:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Will Crow Subject: Beneficial nematodes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone on the list experience with, or know of research using = beneficial nematodes to combat SHB? Will Crow Auburn, AL :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 10:14:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: huestis Subject: Re: [Norlandbeekeepers] Comments: To: Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com Comments: cc: Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, irishbeekeeping@yahoogroups.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mike, This is a thought I had last year. The flow has been poor here also as Kirk's being in the same general region. Even if it is a defense against varroa it still is in conflict with the beekeepers interests. Mike, were the majority of the swarms pre-fall flow swarms? > Has anyone else seen this? Yes. >Normally, there is still brood in the colony > when the new queen begins to lay, wouldn't you say? Not from what I have been seeing here. Almost every time the queens have not begun to lay till all or almost all have emerged. I have been wondering if the addition of a frame of brood at the time would delay the queen from laying. (just one of them thoughts). I'll give my 2 cents here what I've been thinking for the past few years here. There is often a period between summer and fall (not always) that dries up for a week or two here. Then as goldenrod / asters kick in it re-creates and mimics the conditions of the spring swarm period. Some years this is quite strong impulse. Bees to the trees unless the beekeeper opens up the brood chambers quite a bit. It would however if left to there own devices seem that this would be a natural defense at limiting varroa using a trigger from nature rather than a truly self induced trigger (initially). This of course is pure speculation on my part. Either way it seems that it is a defense taking advantage of the environmental situation and why its good to have a well adapted bee. Clay, NY- across the pond from Mike and Kirk Clay's Bee Page- http://wave.prohosting.com/clay2720/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 08:19:38 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Beekeepers and treatments Peter, cited the "Apis" Newsletter: > Dr. Spivak said... "Bees are certified 'junkies' and > beekeepers have become their 'pushers'." and Peter asked: > Seeing where these comments were coming from - > is it not a trifle rich to hammer into beekeepers > who are now reacting to new diagnostic techniques... The line was intended to be "rich". That was her "sound bite". Her "headline". Blame TV news for making everyone think that complex ideas need to be distilled down to bumper-sticker length phrases. When one reads on, and looks at what she said beekeepers should do, much of what she said was on target. Some of it was "preaching to the choir". But with all due disrespect, some of what she was quoted as saying strikes me as verging on pure fantasy. "Apis" quotes her thusly: 1. Stop right now any preventative feeding of antibiotics. 2. Cull combs to remove AFB spores and pesticide/antibiotic residues. 3. Leave mites in colonies; do not try to eliminate them all; in some cases bees can sustain 10% to 15% infestation with little harm. 4. Pesticides "pamper" bees; let them use their own innate defense mechanisms. Use selective breeding to give bees tools to work with and then leave them on their own. This includes incorporating hygienic behavior, SMR and characteristics of other stocks (Russians). 5. Use IPM now! This means thinking before acting; apply pesticides only as a last resort. Use soft chemicals when possible. Again, leave mites in the colony so the bees have a long- term fighting chance on their own. My perspectives on her points are: (1) I agree completely. In this specific regard, beekeepers ARE "drug pushers". With better diagnostic tools, perhaps beekeepers will treat with certainty of knowledge rather than with nothing more than blind fear or from blind habit. (2) Also agree. It's amazing how few beekeepers have any sort of frame age-tracking system in place, and the result is that combs are in service far too long. (3) All control approaches appear to leave SOME mites, which is the essential reason why resistance crops up. If there was a control approach that could eradicate 100% of mites at time of application, I'd love to see it. I also question the prudence of the 10% to 15% estimate in light of the mite/virus work done recently in Beltsville by the USDA, but I fear that "10% to 15%" is merely the actual percentage of mites left alive by the currently-used treatments. (4) If anyone's bees had any "innate defense mechanisms" we would have found "survivor colonies" and bred from them by now. My take on "hygienic", "SMR", and "Russian" bees is that they have failed to live up to the hopes of beekeepers in regard to disease/pest resistance, and have each presented quirks that have been serious problems in the field. If merely keeping my bees alive is "pampering" them, then I intend to continue "pampering". I know that knocking down varroa early and often keeps my colonies alive. I'm not interested in doing my own "selective breeding". Those who do nothing else are better at it than me, and to date, they have offered no tangible improvement that would allow me to cease using a miticide. (5) I agree, but I >>MIGHT<< be able to legally use a "soft" chemical (Api-Life) for the first time this fall, so I'm not sure why she was not preaching in the direction of the US EPA and FDA rather than beekeepers. Honey is food, so I am a strict observer of both the letter and the spirit of the laws and regulations, which to date, have not endorsed the general use of ANY "soft" chemicals in the USA. (5a) Regardless, IPM is a valid approach even if one uses short- range tactical nuclear weapons as one's response to a detection of pests or disease above the economic threshold. One should not confuse "IPM" with the choice of pesticides, and the phrase "last resort" has no business in any description of "IPM". One does not have a "last resort" in IPM. One only has well-thought-out and appropriate responses that one implements with the glacial calm and aplomb of a baccarat player saying "banco". But the above are merely my views. Dr. Marla Spivak was awarded the "James I. Hambleton Award" for being outstanding in her field, which is why she gave the speech. I'm just another anonymous beekeeper. If anyone was to say that I was "outstanding in my field", it would be only because I really >>WAS<< out standing in my field at the time. :) jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 08:46:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Winter Kill/Contaminated Pollen (was: Re: [BEE-L] Sugar syrup or Honey) In-Reply-To: <3F34A466.2050005@which.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Aug 2003 at 8:36, Alan Riach wrote: > I believe that winter survivability and early spring build up > is much more influenced by the amount of pollen which the bees manage > to pack away in autumn. I can't comment on Alan's heather honey/heather pollen relationships, as I've never had any experience. But I would agree with his first statement, and add an emphasis that the pollen be high quality and free of pesticides. I've used frames of comb from deadouts (that I know had been hit with pesticides during the previous season) and seen nice new brood in spring nucs immediately become spotty, when placed next to old frames of pollen. I believe that contaminated pollen during midseason is often stored away, covered with cleaner pollen during the goldenrod bloom, and then uncovered in the dead of winter, when it probably means death to the hive. And that's a death that beekeepers probably won't recognize as a pesticide kill, but it is. Post mortems of spring deadouts are especially important. But the beekeeper should always also ask themselves about an unseen reason that could come into play. Were the hives subjected to any pesticide kills during the previous season? I suppose chemical tests of the pollen would be a way to test for contaminated pollen causing winter kill. That would be expensive. A less expensive test would be to take a frame of pollen, put it next to good brood in a nuc or hive, and see if there is any brood death. If there is, remove it and do not use any frames from these deadouts that contain significant amounts of pollen. I believe that this problem of contaminated pollen is one reason why migratory beekeeping has flourished in the US. Here in South Carolina, we generally have fresh, high quality wild radish and henbit pollen all thru the winter. These are both weeds that are never sprayed, thus they are clean pollens. This helps dilute any stored contamination in the pollen from the previous season, and enablest the bees to *slowly* clean up the contamination, with less visible losses. Right now, some beekeepers are seeing pesticide hits on their bees. The bees, after being knocked back a bit, seem to recover and build back up. Remember these hits, high latitude beekeepers, when you have a high rate of winterkill. The contaminated pollen is still in the cells, covered by fresh pollen. But the time the contamination is uncovered again, the bees have no fresh pollen and are highly vulnerable. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com (finally back online) Mirror except gallery at: http://pollinator.info :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 09:28:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Sugar syrup or Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Riach wrote: > The debate on whether sugar syrup is better than honey will long go on. > However I believe that winter survivability and early spring build up > is much more influenced by the amount of pollen which the bees manage > to pack away in autumn. > Here in Scotland All beekeeping is local. Much of the debate for overwintering involves local conditions and anecdotal evidence. Even using latitude can be misleading. There is plenty of good science that shows the best overwintering feed is sugar syrup. There is also good science that says that sugar syrup, by itself, is not good. But we do not live in an either or world. There will always be a combination of winter feed even if sugar syrup is fed. (Disclaimer- I do not feed sugar syrup in the fall. I use Tony Jadczak's (the winner of the 2003 EAS Divelbliss award) advice on super manipulation and winter on summer honey. So I have no vested interest in using sugar, but I do have a valid interest in good science.) Plus, coupling winter survivability with spring buildup are two different things. Pollen is essential in spring buildup because of brood. Honey is essential in winter survivability because of adult bees. You cannot get through the winter with bad honey no matter what the pollen load, as you note next. > However on occasion I have taken surplus frames of heather honey and fed > it to colonies which were not put to the heather and this has always led > to trouble with dysentery and on occasion colony death. It seems that > heather honey is ok as a winter feed but only for bees which have > gathered heather in the autumn and gradually become used to it. My guess, and it is based on what I have experienced with fall honey, is the bees might consume the heather honey when they can make purging flights while the fed honey is in another section of the hive and eaten when cleansing flights cannot be taken. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 09:51:47 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Poor Spring Foraging Chris said: > Is there any correlation between numbers of hives kept > in a small area and the relative difficulty in getting > them through lean times? I guess if one were to keep bees in the Sahara Desert, with the only forage within flight range in a limited area around an oasis, one might "overload" the area with hives to the point of having some hives in danger of starving. In a less extreme case, it seems reasonable to think that one could "saturate" a specific area with hives, and see a lower yield per hive. There has to be a "Nth hive", which, if placed in the area, adds nothing to the net harvest. But has anyone ever seen this, or even attempted to find the exact "productive limit" for any one area? I doubt it. Too many variables. A typical bee has a "lifetime" that appears to be limited by distance flown. (A. Neukirch, 1982. "Dependence of the life span of the honey bee (Apis mellifica) upon flight performance and energy consumption". [J. Comp. Physiology] 146B:35-40) Bees are estimated to only fly 140 to 500 miles in a lifetime. So, even though bees can forage at long distances from the hive (I recall the "record" being 15 miles from the hive for marked bees, but I don't remember where I read this), long distances clearly reduce both the number of completed sorties per bee, and the number of trips per bee lifetime. Bees are said to be able to carry a maximum "payload" of 90 milligrams of nectar, so if you estimate the bees, the blossoms, and the average amount of nectar per blossom, I'd guess you could get a rough idea. But the "poor foraging conditions" I spoke of had nothing to do with limited available forage. What I spoke of was seemingly unending daytime rain, limiting flight hours. The rain continues here in Virginia. I can barely keep the grass cut between rains. Things have grown and bloomed better than in the past 5 years. But flight ops are grounded more often than they are not, and there is nothing to do but crank up the stereo and play the song "Who'll Stop The Rain?" by "Creedence Clearwater Revival", or better yet, "Riders on the Storm" by the Doors. For the past 5 years or so, things were so dry that there was nothing to do but play a different song by Creedence - "Have You Ever Seen The Rain?". The neat thing about replacing one's CD player with an old Sun Sparc 4 server and a big disc array is that one can set up entire days of "appropriate" music for one's mood with a single "Google"-like query. Other good music to play if one the lacks the scuba gear apparently required to work one's hives includes: Song/Artist ------------ Always the sun/The Stranglers Blame it on the weatherman/B*witched Candle in the wind/Elton John Cloudbusting/Kate Bush Cloud Nine/Temptations Cruel Summer/Bananarama Crying in the rain/A-ha Don't let the sun go down on me/Elton John Here comes that rainy day feeling again/The Fortunes Here comes the rain again/Eurythmics Here comes the sun/George Harrison I can't stand the rain/Eruption Invisible sun/The Police It never rains/Dire Straits It's raining again/Supertramp I wish it would rain/Temptations Just walking in the rain/Johnny Ray Like a hurricane/The Mission Like the weather/10000 Maniacs November rain/Guns n Roses Once upon the weather/Agnes Poetry No rain/Sting Purple rain/Prince ** Rain/Madonna Rain/Orange Juice Jones ** Rain/The Cult Rain and tears/Aphrodite's Child Raindrops keep falling on my head/Dionne Warwick ** Rain in May/Max Werner Rainy day in London/Boulevard Rainy days and Mondays/Carpenters Rock you like a hurricane/Scorpions Run like the wind/Mike Batt Rythm of the falling rain/The Cascades Seasons in the sun/Terry Jacks Shadows in the rain/The Police She like's the weather/Counting Crows She's a rainbow/Rolling Stones Song of the wind/Project Pitchfork Standin' in the rain/ELO Summer and lightning/ELO Summer rain/Alphaville The sun ain't gonna shine any more/The Walker Brothers Thunder/East 17 Thunder in my heart/Leo Sayer Thunderstruck/ AC/DC Waiting for the hurricane/Chris de Burgh Waiting for the sun/The Doors When the rain begins to fall/Pia Zadora & Jermaine Jackson ** White clouds/Tangerine Dream You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows/Dylan (** Indicates songs that one should avoid. I fear that the entire system would self-destruct rather than play such music.) jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 17:20:52 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: Drought and Late Swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yoon: I am feeding my bees RELIGIOUSLY. > > yeah, I'm doin' my share of prayin' too... > AL > Most of us would just put the sugar in feeders, if the bees have no natural stores. Do let us know if this new method, unknown in UK, works better. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 18:24:20 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Drought and late swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/08/03 05:03:14 GMT Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: << Invariably a stressed plant would bloom at the wrong time, and I wonder if the bees are doing the same. I captured a few late swarms to use as nucs, but their timing is really weird since there is very little flow before goldenrods. Have you observed an increased swarming activity during drought? >> Yoon, We in the UK have had a second swarmy year and I believe that it is connected with uncertain weather. In our case rain confining bees to the hive and in your case drought so there are no flowers producing nectar. In both cases to effect is the same. The bees that should be foraging are hanging around the hive. They are safe there so they are not being picked off by all the wildlife that eats bees and they aren't working themselves to death. Assuming that you don't have one of the economical strains that shuts down brood rearing in adverse conditions the hive population will be increasing much more quickly than normal because the older bees are not dying. This leads to rapid congestion in the hive, breakdown in queen pheromene distribution and swarming at the first opportunity. The solution is to add supers, not to hold mythical nectar but to hold the surplus bees. If you can hold them together until the nectar flows again you will have a massive foraging force to take advantage of it. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 18:05:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: al boehm Subject: check mite and screened bottoms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bee Listers Has anyone experience with using checkmite stapled to the cardboard method for hive beetles WITH SCREENED BOTTOM BOAARDS >From my experience of seeing hive beetles on the bottom board only on solid wood boards and not seeing any on screens bottom boards I am a little leary of using this method on colonies with screened bottom boards. Do they moove down and scrounge down at night? Would putting the treatment on top where they ar noticed be more effective? Any input will be welcomed. Al Boehm Columbus NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:00:48 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rick Green Subject: Re: This years honey crop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It looks lousy...empty supers, a few strong hives but on average it will be a poor year unless they get going this August...this is what I report from New York State, midstate, just south of Saratoga, and your crop...what does it look like? Rick Green 8 Hickory Grove Lane Ballston Lake, NY 12019 (518) 384-2539 gothoney@aol.com honeyetc.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 15:55:11 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Beekeepers and treatments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter & All, > .... Honey bees are in crisis, Dr. Spivak said in her acceptance address, and beekeepers are not > helping them much. A new set of rules is necessary to > get the bees off the chemical / pesticide treadmill. Her advice was direct and to the point:..... > Below is a copy of her suggestions and Statements from me in parentheses. You may want a grain of salt on hand just in case you do not agree with my opinions. d:~)> ------------------------------------------------ 1. Stop right now any preventative feeding of antibiotics. ( I agree, I do not use them even on myself and even I am healthier for it.) 2. Cull combs to remove AFB spores and pesticide/antibiotic residues. ( I agree, but my combs have no pesticide/antibiotic residues and I have the added benefit of reusing the wax to mill my own 4.9mm cell foundation with the 4.9mm foundation mill I bought this summer. I had to buy a mill because it is the only way to economically cull combs and replace them with foundation. Clean wax is hard to come by.) 3. Leave mites in colonies; do not try to eliminate them all; in some cases bees can sustain 10% to 15% infestation with little harm. (I agree, I let the bees manage the mites.) 4. Pesticides "pamper" bees; let them use their own innate defense mechanisms. Use selective breeding to give bees tools to work with and then leave them on their own. This includes incorporating hygienic behavior, SMR and characteristics of other stocks (Russians). (I breed my own queens from my best surviving stock, I have Caucasians and a few Russian stock. Breeding being 1/3 of the health and sustainment of the colonies, the other two thirds is nutrition = honey & pollen no substitutes, and worker comb cell size = 4.9mm. These three components combined with ULBN = unlimited brood nest and Housel position of combs to create colonies that are strong and robust with plenty of room for brood and stores never lacking to need fed. Dr. Spivak, I think, is really suggesting that beekeepers take the bull = bees by the horn = stinger and start rearing and breeding queens for themselves and not relying on someone else to do the beekeepers task. At least this is what I hope she means, it sure sounds like it when she uses the words "Use selective breeding" and "incorporating".) 5. Use IPM now! This means thinking before acting; apply pesticides only as a last resort. Use soft chemicals when possible. Again, leave mites in the colony so the bees have a long- term fighting chance on their own. (the only thing I can say here is never use pesticides around honey bees. The beekeeper can sort it out with genetics. Better to start now than have to later because of necessity.) ------------------------------------------------ > So, thinking - Who is working for who? > The bees, we should all be working for the bees, if we are not already doing so. > Let us work towards IPM, but at the same time as the rest > of the Agricultural system plays the same game! > I am already using a form of IPM but I call it HBPM = honey bee pest management, which means, I let the bees use their own innate defense mechanisms to fight pest and disease. To some beekeepers what she is suggesting might be scarry, but really, it is only beekeeping that she is suggesting we do. . .. c(((([ Keith Malone Chugiak, Alaska USA Caucasian Bee Keeper alaskabeekeeper@hotmail.com http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ Check out current weather in my area and 5 day forecast; http://www.wx.com/myweather.cfm?ZIP=99654 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:13:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Denise Hubler Subject: Re: Beekeepers and treatments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim said: <> Jim, Would you and others please expound on the system you use? Thank you, Denise :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:10:58 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: Poor Spring Foraging MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris aasked on 8 August : "Is there any correlation between numbers of hives kept in a small area and the relative difficulty in getting them through lean times?" and Jim commented: ... it seems reasonable to think that one could "saturate" a specific area with hives, and see a lower yield per hive. There has to be a "Nth hive", which, if placed in the area, adds nothing to the net harvest." We have also to remember that every colony wll use something over 120 pounds of honey a year for its own needs - a large colony , much more. So if the Nth colony produces no surplus, it gathered only say 120 pounds. If the Nth colony got that, so probably did all the others - so if an apiary is gradually increased, by the time a site is overstocked, the whole apiary surplus will be zero (on average). The fact that every conony, large or small, will use up so much of the available forage on its own maintenance is a prime reason why hobbyists will get more fun from keeping a small number of very large productive hives - it's maths. [Forage available to bees at one site equals say 10,000 pounds. Target collection per hive = say 120 own use + 50 pounds surplus = 170 pounds. Number of colonies needed = 10,000 / 170 = 58, say 60. Increase cononies to 80. Own use = 80 x 120 = 9,600. Total surplus = 10,000 - 9,600 = 400 pounds, an average per 80 hives of 5 pounds, only one tenth of the target or 'economic return'. If we switch to a highly productive strain, we can rework the figures with say 150 pounds for own use and 100 pounds for target surplus = 250 pounds collection by each hive. Now only 40 hives are needed to collect the 10,000 pounds of available nectar, a saving of 18 hives or 30% of the initial capital invesment. The total for own use will be 40 x 150 = 6,000 pounds, and the total surplus 4,000 pounds. Obviously, , 100 pounds per colony is an increase of 100% on the original target/ acheivement of 50 pounds. If we now head towards overstocking, and increase hives to say 50, we get own use increasing to 50 x 150 = 7,500 pounds and surplus dropping to 2,500 pounds or 50 pounds per colony. So overstocking has cost 25% increase in setting up but zero increase in yield. Of course, contributors may come in saying they get 150 pounds per hive, and they can then work their own figures . We should work on average yields per autumn count of colonies over say 10 years - the Dadants got 150 pounds averages from some sites in some years but gave 50 pounds as their long term overall average - and that was in the 1920's when there were more wild plants (in the Misissipi Valley). Ref : C P Dadant, Dadant System of Beekeeping, 1920 / 1932. As Jim has said, who has ever tried to assess an area with precision when the factors are so variable? The maths however suggest that u can test the overall effect of say increasing colonies by 25% and noting effect on overall yields RELATIVE TO OTHER NEARBY SITES IN THE SAME YEARS which should ALLOW FOR AT LEAST SOME OF THE WEATHER VARIATIONS. Hobyists tend to have less equipment than professionals. So hobbyists need also to assess the max number of colonies that can survive at ALL times of year - bar extreme weather. If colonies run out of natural stores, they have to be fed. Professionals can just hitch up the trailer-mounted feed tank and squirt ready-prepared fructose syrup - that is standard practice as we have heard on this list. The hobbyist has to take the car to the grocery, load up with packets of sucrose, set up buckets and stir - stir - stir and then transport buckets by car to the sites. It is a chore - if I have an odd colony in trouble, I just put in granulated sugar and a splash of water - the bees will dissolve enough to live on but will not store. Hobby beekeeping is much more enjoyable if u keep only enough colonies on each site that they look after themselves and u just remove the true surplus in autumn. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:19:08 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mats Andersson Subject: Sv: Re: [BEE-L] This years honey crop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rick Green asked: <...and your crop...what does it look like? Totally excellent crop here just outside Stockholm in Sweden. By far the best crop since i started beekeeping in 1998. I just finished harvesting, got the mite strips in and started feeding sugar syrup. Many beekeepers in this area lost most of their colonies to varroa related diseases this past winter, but i was lucky and all of mine were alive and well. /Mats Andersson, Stockholm Sweden ------------------------------------------------- WebMail från Tele2 http://www.tele2.se ------------------------------------------------- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:35:08 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: This years honey crop Rick Green said: > It looks lousy...empty supers, > Rick Green > gothoney@aol.com So will you be changing your email address? Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:36:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: This years honey crop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is my 71st year; and it might be almost the WORST. Many colonies (not mine) have starved to death in June or July due to lack of any nectar because of CONTINUOUS rain all over Maryland! George Imirie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:16:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kent Stienburg Subject: honey crop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, We've had lots of rain here in Eastern Ontario Canada this summer. The = spring was cool and wet so a slow start at the beginning. The sweet = clover is still out and the bees are working well. Unfortunately, I've = spent most of the summer trying to rebuild what I lost from our winter. = The hives that survived came out so weak that I held little hope for = them. They are only now at the strength they should have been in May. = So not much of a crop for me I'm afraid. Kent Stienburg :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:30:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: This years honey crop In-Reply-To: <123.2494f8b7.2c68df70@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > this is what I report from New >York State, midstate, just south of Saratoga, and your crop...what does it >look like? > >Rick Green I'm north of you Rick, in Clinton County, New York. I probably have a hundred pound average there. We missed out on much of your rain in June and July...in fact, it was dry for the month of July. Early flows from honeysuckle and sumac were pretty good, with some colonies storing two mediums. At the end of June, I got the rest of my supers on...just in case the Basswood did something. Looks like there was at least a medium there. Right now there is a good flow on...between the showers. We've just had two weeks of hot, humid, showery weather. If it keeps up, they should fill the brood nests nicely. Mike - keeping bees in western Clinton county, and living in Vermont :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:36:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: yoonytoons Subject: Re: Drought and Late Swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ahoy! Robin and the Gang: I have yet to give raw sugar to my bees even for emergencies, as often suggested, at the tail end of winter; I’d rather feed the weak ones in the fall. The following method, I have discovered, works best for my locale [zone 7]. I cheat by mixing a ten-pound bag of sugar [$3.99] into a five-gallon or four and half-gallon bucket, mixed with one measuring cup of white vinegar to stabilize the PH content essential in Oklahoma’s plus 100 F summer weather. Being lazy and dumber n’ dirt, I refuse to change the ratio, especially since I like my bees to focus on brood-rearing, like right now between flows, rather than on winter storage, a task that can be accomplished, though often not necessary, in late fall. I use HOT, not boiling, tab water for good-mixing and purity. Depending on the size of the bucket, this syrup will fill about four and half, and sometimes five, one-gallon jars, which I then place on top of the outer cover, in which I have already carved out a snug-fit inner circle. The jars will tell me when to refill--with minimum disturbance. When feeding, I always carry a water-sprayer to disperse the bees along the waterhole as I replace the jar. A few squirts will push them down in a hurry, thus not crushing them. I do all this in shorts and often topless. This is how I feed my home yard. For the ones in the alfalfa field and elsewhere, I give them each a three-gallon hive-top feeder, which I start liking simply because I want to feed 'em and forget 'em for a while. I am NOT feeding all the colonies though; I am just feeding fall splits [July] and late-summer swarm-captures, which will graduate by goldenrod bloom. Since I have only 46 cott’n pick’n colonies, I found my method close enough for government work. Cheers! Yoon I see my bees start working on fall flow already: I might be able to collect some fall honey for the first time after this devastating drought. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:13:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dennis M Murrell Subject: Quantity of Small Cell Comb in a Tbh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings Everyone, I have compiled some of the measurements obtained from my small cell bees in a top bar hive experiment. Drone sized cells comprised about 18 percent of the comb. Large cell size made up about 60 percent of the comb and small cell size about 22 percent overall. Horizontally, some interesting patterns can be seen. The smaller cell sizes generally increase in quantity toward the front of the hive and larger cell sizes increase toward the rear of the hive. Drone comb was generally drawn on the right side of the hive nearest the entrance. Worker brood was generally drawn on the left side fatherest away from the entrance. Vertically, the larger cells were closest to the top bar and cell size gradually decreased toward the bottom of the comb. Toward the front of the hive about 40 percent of the cells are small cell size with some individual combs almost half small cell. No small cell sizes are found toward the rear of the hive. Large cell sizes gradually increase from about 55 percent at the front to almost 70 percent at the rear. Drone sizes range from about 5 percent at the front to 30 percent at the rear. Small cell sizes are traded mostly for drone size and a few large cell sizes toward the rear of the hive It should be noted that these cell size divisions are really arbitrary as the bees don’t actually construct one size cell and then switch to another. The change is very gradual and progressive. Maybe these American bees never did learn to use a metric ruler :>) I have added a section describing the methods and tables with the results at: www.geocities.com/usbwragler Look in "Confession" and then at the end of Obs 2. Regards Dennis :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:51:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dennis M Murrell Subject: Quantity of Small Cell Comb in a Tbh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Guys, The link posted earlier was erroneous. Try: www.geocities.com/usbwrangler Look in "Confession" and then at the end of Obs 2. Sorry, Dennis Thikig I've gotta go ow :>) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:46:31 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Beekeepers and treatments I grumbled: >> It's amazing how few beekeepers have any >> sort of frame age-tracking system in place. Denise asked: > Would you and others please expound on the system you use? I don't have to expound - you do! You "expound" a colored thumbtack into each frame. :) I buy colored thumbtacks that match the queen-marking colors, and when building new frames, or when reloading a frame with fresh foundation, use the hammer to sink a tack flush with the top surface of the top bar. This means that I can know the age of a frame at a glance (assuming that I replace all brood comb in all hives within 5 years, as the colors repeat every 5 years). Each year, frames with the color indicating that they are 5 years old are removed and replaced with fresh frames, and the old ones are melted and the bare frames run through "rehab" Even the thumbtacks can be recycled and reused. It's just that simple! No records to keep, no databases, no notebooks, no real "thinking" required. I manage extraction comb on the basis of appearance alone, so I do not use thumbtacks for them. But once a frame gets a thumbtack, the wood has an indent from the head of the tack, and the frame never gets used in a super, which is a handy "rule of thumb(tack)" that keeps the honey away from any possible miticide residues. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:07:13 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Healthcare of bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 In message , Blane White writes >Hi Everyone, >Robin says to feed the bees honey and Bob says to feed syrup. Poor old Robin. He has stuck his head over the parapet and is well and truly getting it. I wonder if he is claiming only that the winter honey stores they collect are better for them than sugar syrup on the grounds that nature knows better than humans in the long term. The problem with a sweeping big value and anything you deduce from it is that it is liable to dissection using logical positivist science (often, but not always reductionist), and which does not measure everything anyway. He also has spoken in metaphor, which will not be easy if you prefer facts and logic. An open List like this one needs to accommodate intuitive and feeling talk as well as talk based on logical and data. It isn't easy. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:50:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: Drought and late swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris said : "The solution is to add supers, not to hold mythical nectar but to hold the > surplus bees. If you can hold them together until the nectar flows again you > will have a massive foraging force to take advantage of it". Beekeepers have I believe been providing ample super space for a long time without really getting on top of swarming. It seems a bit more complex. Mark Winston stresses that swarming is associated with congestion within the brood nest - but adding space outside the nest does not automatically result in bees spreading out and releiving the pressure. This seems to be because the work bees do is closely related to their age. So newly hatched bees will remain within the brood area because that is where the work is that they are adapted to at their young age (cel cleaning, brood rearing + ...). Bees have an innate urge to swarm - it is the means of colony reproduction. The timing of swarming seems (to me) to be the result of population imbalance - the swarm is composed largely of young bees able to start the new nest. A colony can safely split to swarm and parent only when the two parts will have an appropriate age distribution. This happens most often at the end of the spring build up - when egg laying runs over the peak, and there are more young bees emerging than are there is work for running the declining nest. But it can also happen in late summer, particularly if weather conditions have delayed foraging and the age distribution in the colony becomes skewed. Mark Winston, Biology of the Honey Bee, page 196 : "Swarming in late summer may result from some colonies reaching their demographic thresholds at a time of year when swarming is clearly maladaptive but procedding to swarm since conoly conditions are at their appropriate levels". His Fig 11.1 shows a distinct blip in frequency of swarming in August, after the main incidence in May/June has died down. The best defence against late swarming seems to be annual requeening in summer - colonies hardly ever swarm if headed by a queen of the current year. Otherwise, if the bees seem 'swarmy' ( hanging in clusters on the combs), the need seems to be to reduce congestion in the brood nest. This can be done by splitting the brood combs into two separated lots - the young bees distribute themselves, so reducing congesion in whatever lot has the queen. Of course, the queenless lot will start queen cells, which must be removed or the colony will certainly swarm. Cutting out is risky as one may be missed. It can be less work, and more reliable, to completely isolate the queenless lot after 7 days (if say it is posiioned at the top of a tier of boxes, or in the rear part of a long box) and provide a separate entrance. The two parts can be reunited at any time after the first emerged queen has killed off any other cells (say 3 weeks + from the time of splitting the original nest ) - with one or other queen first being removed, or with the two queens being left to sort out which is the stronger. The procedure takes a bit of bekeeping - but can be recomended to beekeepers with only a few hives and who wish to keep just that number strong and productive. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:31:25 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Denise Hubler Subject: Beekeepers and Treatments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim, Thanks. That's all I was looking for. I figured it was something simple like that. Just needed some guidance. Denise :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:30:37 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Poor Spring Foraging In-Reply-To: <006e01c360be$1f29ed40$e787bc3e@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Is there any correlation between numbers of hives kept in a small area and the relative difficulty in getting them through lean times?" We've discussed this in depth on this list sometime in the past, and it is not a simple question. The answer is, "Yes", but the correlation is more statistical than arithmetical in nature. The optimal number from the bees's point of view, is one hive per location. Larger numbers increase competition, and the chances of saturating the area with foragers more days of the year, but make the beekeeper's job easier. Some years, a location can carry 100 or more hives and another it may have trouble supporting one hive. For a few days each year, any given location may have more forage than a thousand hives can exploit, but on other days, competition can be serious. Another consideration is that, even when nectar is plentiful, as the number of bees on a location increases, there is also an increased likelihood that bees will visit flowers that have already given up their nectar and thus waste time. We had a serious drought in Alberta in the eighties, and reduced yards to as few as 8 hives, and noticed that the survival was benefitted by smaller numbers. What we must rememeber is that some hives are more competitive than others, and that, as the numbers of hives increase on a location, the pressure on the weakest ones increases. Individual hives that might do well if located alone, or with only a few neighbours, will often fail in large yards. allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:36:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: This years honey crop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Literally just down the road from Rick Green I'm having a record season! Arrived late to EAS as I delayed departure from home, running around adding supers of foundation to give my bees needed room. Discovered supers of drawn foundation that had been on hives for no more than 10 days were drawn and capped! Differences I know of: Rick had very good overwintering success, whereas I had record losses. My bees are new nucs installed in mid-May. With such different results (literally day and night over-wintering, and apparantly day and night regarding this year's crop) I'd look at management techniques and not weather. FWIW. Aaron Morris - thinking lobster filled vacation thoughts and extracting upon return! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 07:31:15 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Cara &Tom Patterson Subject: It's official! Aurora Colorado's beekeeping ordinance passes final reading! Comments: To: BiologicalBeekeeping@yahoogroups.com, Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, gardening@bouldergarden.net, nafex@lists.ibiblio.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Last night, August 11, 2003 the City Council Of Aurora Colorado unanimously passed the final reading of the beekeeping ordinance! It will become law in 30 days! I am thrilled with the passing of this ordinance. I hope and pray that beekeepers in other municipalities will pursue steps to assure they will be able to legally keep beehives in their town or city. Aurora is Colorado's third largest city with a population of 286,028. I wish to publicly acknowledge and thank the many people who have supported this effort in their own ways. The below ordinance is what will be on the books. I love the intro of the bill when I think of how close the city came to passing an ordinance that would have banned beekeeping in residential Aurora. Tom Patterson, Aurora, Colorado ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ ORDINANCE NO. 2003-51 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CHAPTER 14 OF THE CITY CODE OF THE CITY OF AURORA, COLORADO, BY ADDING A NEW SECTION 14-15 RELATING TO BEEKEEPING __________________________ WHEREAS, the City Council of the City of Aurora, Colorado has found that honeybees can be maintained within populated areas in reasonable densities without causing a nuisance if the bees are properly located and carefully managed; and WHEREAS, honeybees are of benefit to mankind by providing agriculture, fruit and garden pollination services and by furnishing honey, wax, and other useful products; and WHEREAS, passage of this ordinance is in the interests of the health, safety and welfare of the citizens. NOW THEREFORE, BE IT ORDAINED BY THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF AURORA, COLORADO: Section 1. That Chapter 14 of the City Code of the City of Aurora, Colorado, is hereby amended by adding a new section, to be numbered 14-15, which section reads as follows: SEC. 14-15 BEEKEEPING. (A) DEFINITIONS. THE FOLLOWING WORDS, TERMS AND PHRASES, WHEN USED IN THIS SECTION, SHALL HAVE MEANINGS ASCRIBED TO THEM IN THIS SECTION: (1) APIARY SHALL MEAN A PLACE WHERE BEE COLONIES ARE KEPT. (2) BEE SHALL MEAN ANY STAGE OF THE COMMON DOMESTIC HONEY BEE, APIS MELLIFERA SPECIES. (3) COLONY SHALL MEAN A HIVE AND ITS EQUIPMENT AND APPURTENANCES, INCLUDING BEES, COMB, HONEY, POLLEN, AND BROOD. (4) HIVE SHALL MEAN A STRUCTURE INTENDED FOR THE HOUSING OF A BEE COLONY. (5) TRACT SHALL MEAN A CONTIGUOUS PARCEL OF LAND UNDER COMMON OWNERSHIP. (B) HIVES. ALL BEE COLONIES SHALL BE KEPT IN INSPECTABLE TYPE HIVES WITH REMOVABLE COMBS, WHICH SHALL BE KEPT IN SOUND AND USABLE CONDITION. (C) SETBACK. ALL HIVES SHALL BE LOCATED AT LEAST FIVE FEET FROM ANY ADJOINING PROPERTY WITH THE BACK OF THE HIVE FACING THE NEAREST ADJOINING PROPERTY. (D) FENCING OF FLYWAYS. IN EACH INSTANCE IN WHICH ANY COLONY IS SITUATED WITHIN TWENTY-FIVE (25) FEET OF A DEVELOPED PUBLIC OR PRIVATE PROPERTY LINE OF THE TRACT UPON WHICH THE APIARY IS SITUATED, AS MEASURED FROM THE NEAREST POINT ON THE HIVE TO THE PROPERTY LINE, THE BEEKEEPER SHALL ESTABLISH AND MAINTAIN A FLYWAY BARRIER AT LEAST SIX (6) FEET IN HEIGHT CONSISTING OF A SOLID WALL OR FENCE PARALLEL TO THE PROPERTY LINE AND EXTENDING TEN (10) FEET BEYOND THE COLONY IN EACH DIRECTION SO THAT ALL BEES ARE FORCED TO FLY AT AN ELEVATION OF AT LEAST SIX (6) FEET ABOVE GROUND LEVEL OVER THE PROPERTY LINES IN THE VICINITY OF THE APIARY. (E) WATER. EACH BEEKEEPER SHALL ENSURE THAT A CONVENIENT SOURCE OF WATER IS AVAILABLE AT ALL TIMES TO THE BEES SO THAT THE BEES WILL NOT CONGREGATE AT SWIMMING POOLS, BIBCOCKS, PET WATER BOWLS, BIRDBATHS OR OTHER WATER SOURCES WHERE THEY MAY CAUSE HUMAN, BIRD OR DOMESTIC PET CONTACT. THE WATER SHALL BE MAINTAINED SO AS NOT TO BECOME STAGNANT. (F) MAINTENANCE. EACH BEEKEEPER SHALL ENSURE THAT NO BEE COMB OR OTHER MATERIALS THAT MIGHT ENCOURAGE ROBBING ARE LEFT UPON THE GROUNDS OF THE APIARY SITE. UPON THEIR REMOVAL FROM THE HIVE, ALL SUCH MATERIALS SHALL PROMPTLY BE DISPOSED OF IN A SEALED CONTAINER OR PLACED WITHIN A BUILDING OR OTHER BEE-PROOF ENCLOSURE. (G) QUEENS. IN ANY INSTANCE IN WHICH A COLONY EXHIBITS UNUSUALLY AGGRESSIVE CHARACTERISTICS BY STINGING OR ATTEMPTING TO STING WITHOUT DUE PROVOCATION OR EXHIBITS AN UNUSUAL DISPOSITION TOWARDS SWARMING, IT SHALL BE THE DUTY OF THE BEEKEEPER TO RE-QUEEN THE COLONY. QUEENS SHALL BE SELECTED FROM STOCK BRED FOR GENTLENESS AND NONSWARMING CHARACTERISTICS. (H) COLONY DENSITIES. (1) IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL TO KEEP MORE THAN THE FOLLOWING NUMBER OF COLONIES ON ANY TRACT WITHIN THE CITY, BASED UPON THE SIZE OR CONFIGURATION OF THE TRACT ON WHICH THE APIARY IS SITUATED: (A) ONE-QUARTER (1/4) ACRE OR LESS TRACT SIZE - TWO (2) COLONIES; (B) MORE THAN ONE-QUARTER (1/4) ACRE BUT LESS THAN ONE-HALF (1/2) ACRE TRACT SIZE - FOUR (4) COLONIES; (C) ONE-HALF (1/2) ACRE OR MORE BUT LESS THAN ONE (1) ACRE TRACT SIZE - SIX (6) COLONIES; (D) ONE (1) ACRE OR LARGER TRACT SIZE - EIGHT (8) COLONIES; (E) REGARDLESS OF TRACT SIZE, WHERE ALL HIVES ARE SITUATED AT LEAST TWO HUNDRED (200) FEET IN ANY DIRECTION FROM ALL PROPERTY LINES OF THE TRACT ON WHICH THE APIARY IS SITUATED, THERE SHALL BE NO LIMIT TO THE NUMBER OF COLONIES. (2) FOR EACH TWO (2) COLONIES AUTHORIZED UNDER COLONY DENSITIES, SUBSECTION (H)(1) ABOVE, THERE MAY BE MAINTAINED UPON THE SAME TRACT ONE NUCLEUS COLONY IN A HIVE STRUCTURE NOT EXCEEDING ONE (1) STANDARD NINE AND FIVE-EIGHTHS (9 5/8) INCH DEPTH TEN (10) FRAME HIVE BODY WITH NO SUPERS ATTACHED AS REQUIRED FROM TIME TO TIME FOR MANAGEMENT OF SWARMS. EACH SUCH NUCLEUS COLONY SHALL BE DISPOSED OF OR COMBINED WITH AN AUTHORIZED COLONY WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER THE DATE IT IS ACQUIRED. (I) PROHIBITED. THE KEEPING BY ANY PERSON OF BEE COLONIES IN THE CITY NOT IN STRICT COMPLIANCE WITH THIS SECTION IS PROHIBITED. ANY BEE COLONY NOT RESIDING IN A HIVE STRUCTURE INTENDED FOR BEEKEEPING, OR ANY SWARM OF BEES, OR ANY COLONY RESIDING IN A STANDARD OR HOMEMADE HIVE WHICH, BY VIRTUE OF ITS CONDITION, HAS OBVIOUSLY BEEN ABANDONED BY THE BEEKEEPER, IS UNLAWFUL AND MAY BE SUMMARILY DESTROYED OR REMOVED FROM THE CITY BY THE CITY MANAGER OR DESIGNEE. Section 2. That all ordinances or parts of ordinances of the City Code of the City of Aurora, Colorado in conflict herewith are expressly repealed. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:28:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Honey Crops in Upstate NY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Concerning the large differences in honey crops in this area (I live close to Aaron and Rick, and we are all not far from Michael Palmer), Aaron said "With such different results (literally day and night over-wintering, and apparantly day and night regarding this year's crop) I'd look at management techniques and not weather." I don't agree. This morning I was out inspecting a friends hives as she reported that her bees were starving! Hard to believe as, like Aaron, mine as booming! I found no disease and, yes, they are starving. The difference is that as I look around I don't see any knapweed in her area while my bees are thriving on it! AKA spotted thistle or Centaurea Coleitrapa, a noxious week imported from Asia that quickly takes over abandoned farmland. The best web picture I could find is at http://www.co.larimer.co.us/depts/pubwor/weeds/spflower.htm. Thirty years ago this was about unknown in upstate NY and just 20 years ago was not widely seen. Today the areas that are not infested are few and far between, but it can't take cultivation or regular mowing so good farming practices keep it at bay. This is closely related to Yellow Star Thistle (Centaurea Solstitalis) that provides much of the crop from Northern California to Idaho. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:23:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Don Campbell Subject: Greek predatory wasp Hi, I have just returned from The Greek island of Leros, where I had the opportunity to vist a local beekeeper. They seem to have all the pests and problems we do here except for hive beetles. Instead they have problems with Wasps. A large red one can devistate a hive, I'm told. They also have a very fast small green wasp that steals eggs and lavae, but I couldn't get a picture of that one. Below I posted a picture of it. (If the link doesn't work it can be found in Yahoos Norlandbeekeepers group, photos - Don Csmpbell - Greece) I've look for an ID but no luck, anyone have any idea? http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/groups/g_4136665/Don+Campbell/Greece/__hr_A+Bee+pr editor.jpg? Thanks Don Campbell Mohegan Lake, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:22:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: yoonytoons Subject: Re: Poor Spring Foraging Regarding the optimum number in a yard: Correct me if I err; however, I remember reading an article to the effect that as a beekeeper crowd a yard, the radius of foraging widens at the same time, thus making the optimum number of hives in a given yard much more difficult to arrive. In my own setup, I would not worry about under twenty; however, I would, above thirty, a reason why I am in constant search of another [good] location when my splits graduate. Yoon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:10:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: Honey Crops in Upstate NY & VT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My experience this year seems to support Lloyd's comments. I'm in central Vermont, and have six hives and a couple of nucs on farm land heavy with white clover, loose strife, joe pye weed, and thistle. The hives from that group which didn't give me supersedure problems are doing well (not great, but well). I also keep a hive in my back yard, which is a bottomland area that has produced well over the past few (dry) years (around 100lbs/hive from 1st year, closer to 200 lbs from 2nd year hives). It has a good mix of wildflowers, brambles, some sweet clover, and heavy with goldenrod & aster. This year, this hive is just not producing . We've had so much rain during critical periods that it seems to be sort of "idling". A friend who keeps around 20 hives in a similar arrangement has reported nearly identical observations (he lives about 3 miles away). It would seem that the key difference between these hive locations is the white clover, which blooms steadily over a very long period. This long bloom would be of real advantage when the weather is uncooperative, creating a much wider window of opportunity than shorter bloom wild nectar sources. Lets hope for some hot, dry weather for the goldenrod flow... Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 21:58:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Karen D. Oland" Subject: Re: Poor Spring Foraging In-Reply-To: <1060695037.3f38ebfd57e60@www.honeybeeworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Allen Dick: > The optimal number from the bees's > point of view, is one hive per location. Larger numbers increase competition, > and the chances of saturating the area with foragers ... Such a low number of hives (one) per location would result in very poor genetic diversity, would it not? Since this would affect long term survival, I would think a higher density would be "optimal". Although "optimal" might be one hive placed every couple hundred yards or so, rather than all on top of each other (as humans are more likely to prefer), within the foraging (and breeding area). Karen --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:23:15 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: cognant.mike@BTCONNECT.COM Subject: Re: Drought and late swarms In-Reply-To: <19b.18f09be1.2c66ce94@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Aug 2003 at 18:24, CSlade777@AOL.COM wrote: > but to hold the > surplus bees. If you can hold them together until the nectar flows again you > will have a massive foraging force to take advantage of it. > > Chris Was the secret of beekeeping for honey crops ever better summarised in one sentence? Mike Rowbottom HARROGATE North Yorkshire UK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 21:48:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Karen D. Oland" Subject: Re: Beekeepers and treatments In-Reply-To: <006401c36049$a52cc680$7604c518@gollum> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Jim: > I manage extraction comb on the basis of appearance alone, > so I do not use thumbtacks for them. When setting up honey supers, I put a frame w/ cut-comb foundation in the center position, between the frames of drawn comb. Several boxes are pile one at once and as the top box's center comb is drawn out, new supers added on. To remind me not to extract those frames, I label each with "CC" in permanent marker at each end -- so far the markings hold up well. Despite the near continuous rain, I managed 50 lb/hive (or thereabouts) in one location (near where one local beekeeper usually gets 150 lb a year). Unfortunately, daily rain at the house yielded zero here amongst the poplar trees (although enough forage was there for the hives to build up well, by July we are done until Sept and there was no surplus to tide them over that long, so the feeders are on until the goldenrod arrives. But, Jim, there is hope yet. We have had the first 3 day period with no rain since winter. I can tell, as it was the first day we had to turn on the soakers in the veggie garden (roots don't get as deep with daily rain -- on the other hand, ripening is slowed, due to lack of sun). Karen --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 21:25:27 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: It's official! Aurora Colorado's beekeeping ordinance passes final reading! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Every beekeeper should THANK YOU for getting done what many talk about doing, but get lazy or sidetracked. I indeed SALUTE YOU! George Imirie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 23:44:40 +0300 Reply-To: superbee Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: superbee Subject: Greek Predatory Wasp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The species is Vespa orientalis. A real bee killer! There are some good = photos of it on PO Gustafsson's website - look for the part about = Cyprus. Best regards Roger White Superbee Cyprus :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:06:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: Poor Spring Foraging MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/12/2003 11:40:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, yskim@STGREGORYS.EDU writes: > Regarding the optimum number in a yard: > > > Correct me if I err; however, I remember reading an article to the effect > that as a beekeeper crowd a yard, the radius of foraging widens at the > same time, thus making the optimum number of hives in a given yard much > more difficult to arrive. In my own setup, I would not worry about under > twenty; however, I would, above thirty, a reason why I am in constant > search of another [good] location when my splits graduate. > In your setup, Yoon, how many acres do you have? I am saturated in bees at my house on one third of an acre. More because there are just too many bees that keep bumping into us! LOL But, I've been asked to put 20 hives on 22 acreas of apple orchard. So, I guess that means I'll have a place for splits and swarms next year. Then what??? Kathy Cox, Northern California, Italian, 19 hives :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:01:31 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: This years honey crop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems our very wet April this year may have helped the beekeepers out in one way. The wasps and yellowjackets are not in abundance. I think their queens may have drowned. I had 6 hives last year and all 6 came through with one being without a queen and dwindling numbers. Of the 5 good hives I have taken 200 pounds of honey. I have all the swarms that I caught (18) which I am feeding so that they draw comb for next year. I expect to harvest at least another 100 pounds the way things look. But, if all of them make it to the spring, I'll have a lot of honey makers!!! Kathy Cox, Northern California, Italian, 19 hives :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:57:47 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Poor Spring Foraging In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > The optimal number from the bees's > > point of view, is one hive per location. Larger numbers increase > competition, and the chances of saturating the area with foragers ... > > Such a low number of hives (one) per location would result in very poor > genetic diversity, would it not?... Of course this can be a consideration, but the question of diversity is a different matter entirely from the question of how many hives can survive and thrive on one site. Since many beekeepers requeen regularly, and buy mated queens from far away, and some use use hybrids, for those beekeepers, this would not be an issue. For those attempting to breed bees or maintain a stock, the question of neighbouring bees becomes significant, and can be more complex, involving much more than just the number of hives on one location. allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 06:48:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rick Drutchas Subject: star thisle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Somebody in New York mentioned knapp weed or star thistle and how it = spread over the last thirty years. In Vermont its been about twenty = years. Does this plant make a brown honey that foams up more than usual = and doesn't want to crystallize? It also make a very white wax. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:52:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Hubers Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 9 Aug 2003 to 11 Aug 2003 (#2003-222) In-Reply-To: <200308120400.h7C4014V021106@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Dear BEE-L In an Aug.10 issue of BEE-L Mike Palmer commented on the possible beneficial effects of swarming in controlling Varroa because of an extended break in brood production. If I am not mistaken Brother Adam has written on the beneficial aspects of a break in brood production when he described how he used to control swarming just prior to the main honey flow. He removed the queen for about 10 days (during which time any queen cells were Destroyed) and then replaced her with a new young queen. It seems reasonable that a break in brood production could also break the Varroa life cycle. Ernie Huber :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:59:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: Healthcare of bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keith Malone wrote: >Hi Keith & All, > > > >>> But >>>even if there is nothing unique to honey, there is still the question of >>>delivery. We know nurse bees eat pollen and honey >>> >>> >>> >>Watered honey or preferentially nectar. This is an important detail >> >> >> > >If the bees were presented with watered honey and/or sugar syrup which would >they prefer? > Keith, Appetites are complex things, I suspect they might go for the honey water since you asked the question. To evaluate the merit of the implication that if the bees prefer watered honey over syrup that it is more nutritious consider the following question. You have a group of ten year old humans (n=10, 5 males, 5 females, randomly selected from any US grammar school. They are presented with a steaming plate of broccoli and another plate with a nice big slice of chocolate cake with fudge frosting. How many 10 year olds would pick the far more nutritious cake? Appetites are important - but are very very specific and are are not the end all in nutrition or nutrient selection, in fact, in many instances cause more harm than good. Another example? McDonalds. Keith "and that milk better be cold" Benson :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:53:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Pollinators, West Nile, and Cotton Spraying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Bee Listers, Here's a thought provoking article on the effects of an agricultural spray on non-target creatures, including our bees. Also, in a year of concerns for West Nile, we see one of the most important mosquito predators - dragonflies, wiped out of an area in a few minutes. Take a look at the documentation and some observations and reflections here: http://gardenbees.com/cotton%20spray/cottonspray.htm Dave Green http://gardenbees.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:15:20 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roy Nettlebeck Organization: Tahuya River Apiaries Subject: Re: This years honey crop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: >. > >With such different results (literally day and night over-wintering, and >apparantly day and night regarding this year's crop) I'd look at >management techniques and not weather. > Hi Aaron and All' The issue is more complex. It is not one or the other , it is both working together. I have bees in 4 or 5 locations at one time. I may have more than one your in a location.( ten square miles.) Weather has a lot to do with production of nectar and if the bees can fly. Some plants are temperature sensitive. They will not put out much nectar until the temp gets up to 70 -85 F. Fireweed needs 80 -85 F to flow. 70 F helps blackberry around here. Thistle has no problem with temperature at all. I had one yard this year that went flat. I know the area well . It comes on strong with all of the plants I mentioned earlier. Weather had them eating up the maple and huckleberry I had on board , when I moved them in the spot. They started to get down on stores and I fed them. It took a gallon each to get them to the natural flow. Now , that was the only yard I had to feed. Those bees are min. 3 supers full , with some 5 full at this time. I always keep an extra one or two for them to work on if they need it. I moved bees monday night from 2,000 feet fireweed to 4, 000 ft. Not in the same area., 30 miles away My high fireweed is just getting started. I have a major load of early fireweed this year. Best in ten years. I pulled all but two supers for the move. Needed room for the bees. The hives were very heavy. I took 18 on one trip and 20 on another and just about could not make the climb up the mountain. I'm glad I move in the middle of the night. The duels in the back were getting sort of flat, if you know what I mean. I little over weight. ( not a little ) Why was this year so good for me? Good weather , hot July. Watching my bees very close. Working them all the time. Each hive is different. See what they need. Move frames if needed. Reverse box's.. Give them air if it gets hot.. All the above and much more. The Russians love to lay all the way to the top. They have not read the book about the honey barrier. Queen cells up in the 3rd super. A lot of new things to see and learn. There is no blanket answer. Many different parts to the puzzle. That's why I Love beekeeping. We are all learning. Those with wisdom understand how complex apis really is in nature. A little added. I don't use chemicals. Marla Spivak is right on about chemicals. It has taken me 3 years to get to the level of bees that I have now. Many queen changes. Best Regards Roy > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:48:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Larry Krengel Subject: This years honey crop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just weighing in on the size of the current crop.... here in Northern Illinois my crop is excellent this year. It has been strange weather... a very dry spring followed by a wetter, cool summer. The rains were of the shower variety and whether you got rain or not depended on which side of the road you lived on. But for the bees, this seems to have worked well. On average, my colonies will do excellent. I only extract once a year - in about two weeks. At this point I have some colonies with three (medium) supers - about 100 pounds of surplus - and some with as many as seven supers - over 200 pounds. I have taken up bracing some of the taller ones. My average has been around 100 pounds per hive over the last 10 year. I would expect to have over a 150 pound average this year. The bee traffic to and from the hives is amazing. As I write, the bees are working like crazy. Thistles are just about done, but Menarda and Purple Cone Flower are out in full force. The tall and Dutch clovers are doing well and golden rod is just about to start. A number of alphalfa fields are late in being cut because of the rain showers lately. The bees are enjoying the blooms there, too. I wish I could engineer each summer to be like this one. I would add a few hundred more hives (to my twenty) and become a rich man. Ulee's gold? Larry Krengel Marengo, IL :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 06:03:53 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Wettergreen Subject: Re: Beekeepers and treatments In-Reply-To: <200308130406.h7D3xG5R018071@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 8/12/2003 James Fischer grumbled an excellent system using thumbtacks for tracking the age of brood comb. >I don't have to expound - you do! >You "expound" a colored thumbtack into each frame. :) This is all well and good, but what if that brood frame is full of honey, or has some brood in it? Do you just take it anyway and melt it out? Second, someone asked about how the season is going. I only have two hives located in Batavia, Illinois, but thus far, this year has been going gangbusters. The 3 pound package that I put on drawn comb already produced 100 pounds and the hive that didn't die last year produced 60 pounds, with about another 50 in the supers but uncapped. It should be a record-breaking year. Chuck Wettergreen beekeeper meadmaker Geneva, IL :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:31:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: yoonytoons Subject: Re: Poor Spring Foraging MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Kathy: I am poor, Kathy: I have a meager ten-acre lot on which I had dragged a doublewide to homestead. I just happened to live on the edge between a wooded area and a nearby farmland, an almost ideal location, for which we did our research before we purchased our land, something I will always do if I were to move again. The pockets of woods provide many floral sources, such as sumac, pseudo acacia robinia, persimmon, and even hackberry during the summer nectar dearth; the farmland, alfalfa, soy, and feeder-corn for pollen, among others, within three-mile radius. [I have yet to observe my bees work on that darn soy, though] On the outskirt of this radius I keep another yard, the second one, on 650 acre Experimentation Farm [mostly ladino clover which produces a light purplish juice], and about three and half miles outside this yard, I keep the third one in the middle of huge alfalfa fields—sort of like a chain- link. To my best knowledge, there is one hobbyist keeping two colonies near my home and several feral bees, whose locations I am well aware of. In the future I am fix’n to split about 100 colonies evenly among these three yards. Anything beyond, I will disperse to other locations. Lately a UPS guy volunteered to offer his near-the-bottom-land acreage to get some honey from me; of course, I have already made enough splits to move there come next spring. On a totally different note, he related an interesting anecdote that he used to feed his cattle *syrup* mostly made of mint, a leftover from X-mas candy-making, and his former beekeeper- friend got hot because his bees produced mint-flavored honey one year. This was how the UPS guy lost the beekeeper. He said about a decade ago it was not an uncommon practice to buy truckload of this leftover syrup and feed the cattle for a quick boost, a fact that seems to explain why one can get a mint-honey although he/she may not live near a soft drink packer nearby. I can’t imagine cows with so much sweet meat on ‘em. Yoon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:24:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Honey Crops in Upstate NY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Lloyd attributes the differences in honey crops to knapweed. P'raps so. I have one yard located smack dab in the middle of a great knapweed field. It's a very inconvenient yard to tend, but I keep it because the knapweed harvest makes it worth while. Very nice, light honey. But as the bee flies, Lloyd's yards and my yards are removed, and Mike Palmer is many bee miles removed. Whereas Rick Green's bees' and my bees' forage area literally overlaps. I've been wondering about the difference Rick reported. Another difference I know of is that Rick made quite a few splits this spring. Perhaps the queens are questionable. I got a small number of early queens from California this spring, a large portion of which were very poor performers. In fact, some of them I replaced. Possible Rick is suffering from a bad batch of queens. Comments Rick? Aaron Morris - thinking sunburn! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::