From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:19:35 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.3 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ALL_NATURAL, AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3160A48FAB for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDAZdG011456 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:19 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0310D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 132910 Lines: 2984 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:28:45 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: the Small Hive Beetle news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison wrote > My conclusion and the conclusion of others looking at the phenomenon is that > the small hive beetle is in the hive to lay eggs (which is the same for the > wax moth) and when the hive is opened or disturbed the SHb will come out > even in the presence of bees and lay eggs ( the adult beetle leaves the hive > after the laying of eggs). When we first got SHB we were concerned about this as we were opening hives for inspection and expecting a massive egg lay after the inspection. It did not happen. I was intrigued by the work of Jamie Ellis, published in the ABJ I think, that the bees actually seem to make these "prisons" for the beetles and keep them there. The SHB even seem to be able to mimic bees and make the bees feed them whilst they are "imprisoned". Jamie came to our Queenasland confernec this year as our guest speaker and actually had video footage of bees feeding SHB in these "prisons". It would seem that what happens when the hive is opened is that these "prisons", which are often on the top bar under the inner covers of lids or the lid if it is flat on the top bars, are broken and the SHB is free to run and lay eggs. If you see what happens when you lift the lid, the SHB run to the dark cormers of the hive or into cells. The SHB can get into an empty cell on a brood frame and lay eggs in the 6 adjoining cells through the cell walls. The eggs hatch with 24 hours and then the larvae are out. This information came out after the trip to the USA by the authors of the Oz report. All I know is that we don't know much about the SHB and what to expect. The Oz experience in no way matches the experinces in the USA but maybe that will change with time. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:37:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was perusing the BEE-L archives for sources and varieties of buckwheat to plant next spring as a honey source and came up with very little info. So far as I can tell the black-hulled or tartarian varieties are the ones to plant vice the newer hybrid or silver-hulled varieties. At the risk of eliciting some hot responses could someone point me in the proper direction for sources and varieties. I have some land that is currently in brush and weeds and would like to have it become productive in some manner. Also, isn't buckwheat a legume? Mike Located 1/2 way between Montgomery and Mobile :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:19:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: 55% HFCS as a carbohydrate supplement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Severson, D. W. and Erickson, E. H. Jr. Honey bee (Hymenoptera: Apidae) colony performance in relation to supplemental carbohydrates. Journal of Economic Entomology (1984) 77 (6) 1473-1478 [En, B] Sucrose, 42% high fructose corn syrup (HFCS), and 55% HFCS were compared as supplemental carbohydrate sources for colonies established from packages during 1982 and 1983. During 1982, there were no significant differences between treatments in early season weight gains, seasonal honey production, or measurements of sealed brood. There were no significant differences between treatments in winter food consumption. During 1983, there were no significant differences between treatments in cluster size, or in newly emerged worker whole-body dry weights in the spring, or in head and thorax dry weights. The amount of sealed brood in spring was significantly greater in colonies fed sucrose than in colonies fed HFCS. Differences between treatments in honey production were not significant. It is concluded that feeding either 42 or 55% HFCS as a carbohydrate supplement does not adversely affect honeybee colony performance.Author. Dept. Entomology, Univ. Wisconsin, Madison, WI 53706, USA. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:30:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited In-Reply-To: <002f01c39823$f1e1f2e0$cf124941@frontiernet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > Also, isn't buckwheat a legume? No, it's not. In fact, it will rob nitrogen from the soil if you don't turn it back into the soil. Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:51:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited In-Reply-To: <002f01c39823$f1e1f2e0$cf124941@frontiernet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 21 Oct 2003 at 17:37, Mike wrote: > I was perusing the BEE-L archives for sources and varieties of > buckwheat to plant next spring as a honey source and came up with very > little info. No, it's not a spring crop. You want it to bloom about 6 weeks before your frost, so calculate back from that. Here in coastal South Carolina it would be planted about mid August. It's not a legume so it won't add nitrogen, but it also doesn't like nitrogen. It's a poor soil crop. Don't fertilize it, or you'll have all plant and no bloom. It also likes the soil a little acid. I suspect you'll be disappointed in it as a honey source, unless you have a huge acreage, but it's great for birds and wildlife. Dave Green SC USA The Kids" Good Bug Page: http://goodbugpage.org :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:59:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited In-Reply-To: <002f01c39823$f1e1f2e0$cf124941@frontiernet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike wrote: > I was perusing the BEE-L archives for sources and varieties of > buckwheat to plant next spring as a honey source and came up with very > little info. I grew it for what it does really well and that is ground cover and picked the ones that seeded best so I could have seed to plant the next year. That was some ten years ago and forget the variety. It can recapture a field that is weed prone and when plowed under helps a bit to restore it and did that well. My guess is whatever you plant will give you what you want. I doubt if there is much difference in taste since it a small family. So I would go for the variety that best suits your other needs, such as germination, seeds and the like. (Which, in a place like Maine, is my starting criteria.) And I would look up a local farm store and buy it from them since that seed is usually best for the area. (Which is what I did, and it was.) The honey was not something I would rave about so I ended up with a lot of buckwheat seed after the first year and never bothered with it again. Bill Truesdell (who has never made buckwheat vinegar) Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:35:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Subject: Re: Mead & vinigar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Elliott wrote: "I thought all mead will turn to vinegar after awhile if left to sit in the open long enough. Is this true , or am I going to get houch instead." I was under the impression that the difference was the mead was made under anaerobic conditions and vinegar was made under aerobic conditions. Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:25:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've used buckwheat as a garden cover crop (generic black hulled variety), and was very impressed with what it did for soil tilth. The fine roots work very well on clay/silty soil, breaking the clumpiness up quite a bit. After tilling it in I found the soil much more loose and crumbly than before. I also found it did darken the honey in the backyard hive a bit, but I liked it. Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:34:55 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: waldig@NETZERO.COM Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bill, Did the bees work your buckwheat well? I bought a pound of buckwheat seed (black although not a particular variety) this spring from a nursury in Maine and planted a patch in my garden. It grew and bloomed nicely all through the summer (it reseeds readily if not gathered promptly) but I only saw one or two honeybees on it throughout the whole season. Even bumble bees ingnored it. Buckwheat nectaries are supposed to be active only in the morning and I looked at all times of the day. If anyone has buckwheat seed or knows of a mail-order source for buckwheat that bees will actually work, I'd certainly appreciate the info. Waldemar Galka Long Island, NY Mike wrote: > I was perusing the BEE-L archives for sources and varieties of > buckwheat to plant next spring as a honey source and came up with very > little info. I grew it for what it does really well and that is ground cover and picked the ones that seeded best so I could have seed to plant the next year. That was some ten years ago and forget the variety. It can recapture a field that is weed prone and when plowed under helps a bit to restore it and did that well. My guess is whatever you plant will give you what you want. I doubt if there is much difference in taste since it a small family. So I would go for the variety that best suits your other needs, such as germination, seeds and the like. (Which, in a place like Maine, is my starting criteria.) And I would look up a local farm store and buy it from them since that seed is usually best for the area. (Which is what I did, and it was.) The honey was not something I would rave about so I ended up with a lot of buckwheat seed after the first year and never bothered with it again. Bill Truesdell (who has never made buckwheat vinegar) Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:39:25 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: waldig@NETZERO.COM Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dave wrote: >I suspect you'll be disappointed in it as a honey source, >unless you have a huge acreage, but it's great for birds and wildlife. What would consider as the minimum acreage for the bees to be attracted? I had a relatively small patch -- ~ 20 sq ft. Thanks, Waldemar Galka Long Island, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:37:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited In-Reply-To: <20031022.073929.19995.96033@webmail09.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 22 Oct 2003 at 14:39, waldig@NETZERO.COM wrote: > What would consider as the minimum acreage for the bees to be attracted? > I had a relatively small patch -- ~ 20 sq ft. A couple acres probably - for each hive. I've done small plantings, which the bees work furiously, but don't add any significant weight to the supers. Burkett Mills, in Penn Yan, NY, if the are still in business, has long been a seed source. I bought a bushel and it lasted several years, but I did not attempt to harvest seed. Dave in SC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:54:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited In-Reply-To: <20031022.073523.19995.96014@webmail09.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit waldig@NETZERO.COM wrote: > Bill, > > Did the bees work your buckwheat well? I bought a pound of buckwheat > seed (black although not a particular variety) this spring from a > nursury in Maine and planted a patch in my garden. It grew and > bloomed nicely all through the summer (it reseeds readily if not > gathered promptly) but I only saw one or two honeybees on it > throughout the whole season. I did not plant it for bees but for ground cover and to recover a field, so never noticed. But got lots of seeds and AFAIK it is not self pollinating. So those seeds came from something pollinating it. I planted about 3,000 sq feet. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:54:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Re: honey vinegar In-Reply-To: <3F968D3C.2010208@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Layne Westover said: >I'd like to hear from those who have successfully done it rather than those who have read about it or just have an opinion about it. I made a pail of it, as an experiment, from washings from cappings. It smelled good. But I did some checking in the meantime, decided it wasn't worth the risk, and it went down the drain. Bill Truesdell wrote: > Bill Truesdell (who has never made buckwheat vinegar) Heh, heh... I've sat in many a Sunday School class where the students sat around and shared their opinions, rather than see what the Bible said. It's an old classroom technique, known as "pooling our ignorance." It's not a good idea with a life and death matter like botulism. That's why I want to reiterate the importance of checking with the food science people who can give authoritive answers. (In the Sunday School, it's an *eternal* life and death matter...) Dave in SC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:01:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "adrian m. wenner" Subject: Buckwheat revisited In-Reply-To: <002f01c39823$f1e1f2e0$cf124941@frontiernet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Mike Murray asked: > Isn't buckwheat a legume? The buckwheat in our area belongs to the buckwheat family, Polygonaceae. However, one has to be careful about common names, since they may vary between regions of the country. Adrian -- Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home office phone) 967 Garcia Road wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara, CA 93103 www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm ***************************************************** * * "We not only believe what we see: * to some extent we see what we believe." * * Richard Gregory (1970) * ***************************************************** :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:08:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: honey vinegar In-Reply-To: <3F966FF8.2682.7ED27D@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave wrote: > Layne Westover said: > >>I'd like to hear from those who have successfully done it > > rather than those who have read about it or just have an > opinion about it. > > I made a pail of it, as an experiment, from washings from cappings. > It smelled good. But I did some checking in the meantime, decided > it wasn't worth the risk, and it went down the drain. I have made honey vinegar but by accident (airlock popped on the fermenting mead) and did not like it. I have made cider vinegar and it was so-so but I did not like the flavor and would not use it for pickling, which was my intent. It would have overpowered the taste of the pickles. I tried using airborne yeasts to make a nice grape (concord) wine and got a good wine vinegar. But its use was limited to cooking (flavor) and not pickling. My wife never used it much, so I gave up on making it. It all depends on what you want. If you do not mind the flavor of your local yeasts and bacteria, fine. I have given up on trying those in my area because they just do not give good results, even sourdough bread, as I noted in another post. I doubt if any mead maker uses airborne yeasts to ferment the honey but buys a good wine yeast starter. I did the same when I was making wine. It is the only way to get good results on a consistent basis. Same with vinegar. As far as botulism, except in infants, it is the storing of the item that gives the problem. Then you can get an anaerobic condition which is what botulism needs as long as everything else is in its favor. http://12.31.13.107/healthyliving/nutrition/jul03nutritionbotulism.htm is a good synopsis of botulism poisoning. The most interesting statistic is that of the 110 cases of botulism in the US yearly, infants are 72% of botulism poisoning, because their systems cannot handle the toxin. It is just not that common among adults. It can be deadly, which is why it makes the news, but we get more food poisoning every day from ill prepared foods that are seldom reported since who cares if you have a bad case of "stomach flu". Bill Truesdell (this thread will ferment along until it turns to vinegar) Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:00:49 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "adrian m. wenner" Subject: "Science" Comments: cc: phwells@earthlink.net, PayneT@missouri.edu, tpaine@ucrac1.ucr.edu, rosinbio@yahoo.com, barry@birkey.com, ckstarr99@hotmail.com, bayer@sbceo.org, jfischer@supercollider.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Barry Donovan wrote (in part): >`Science' is difficult to define in such a way that finds universal >acceptance, but my Oxford dictionary says that a definition of science >is that it is `an organized body of knowledge that has been accumulated >on a subject'. The first part of his sentence rings true, since scholars have debated about the nature of scientific process for centuries. The last portion of Barry's sentence is somewhat antiquated. That is because the results of both good and bad scientific endeavor become accumulated. Then comes the sorting process, testing, and (oftentimes, rejection) of hypotheses. Thanks to Barry Birkey, one can find my conception of scientific process in a 6-page document written for college students at: http:www.beesource.com/biossep1993 That concept meshes well with the attitude of many people in diverse fields of science. Adrian -- Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home office phone) 967 Garcia Road wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara, CA 93103 www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm ********************************************************* * * "The current emphasis [in science] on ... * discouragement of dissent and innovation, ultimately * stifles -- if not entirely paralyzes -- progress * in science." * * Naomi Kraus (1994) * ********************************************************* :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:20:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, If you mow Buckwheat you can get four bloom a year the bees will work. I produce what I call Wildflower honey in the river bottoms in fall. I broadcast Buckwheat seed along the river banks about 8 weeks before the fall flowers bloom. The honey is darker and the buckwheat adds a nice flavor. I get my Buckwheat seed from the Amish. They buy their honey from me and have got a booth at the National Small Farm Today trade show in Columbia , Missouri. Nov. 6 thru 8 which I have got a booth at also. Those wanting a way to contact the Amish email me your address and I will get information on seed price and shipping. Mike originally asked about the seed in Alabama. If a Bee-L person from Alabama is attending the show then perhaps they could pick the seed up for Mike. If you want the Amish to bring the Buchwheat seed to the show then contact me as soon as possible as I will be contacting the Amish about their honey order before long. The Amish only use horse and buggy so a driver (with passenger van) brings the Amish and pulls a trailer behind and space is limited. I can't help believe there are not other sources for Buckwhaet seed but I can help if you can not find another source closer Mike. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:34:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Mondjack Subject: I.D. Gadget The gadget (frame) pictured at you site is called a "No Swarm Cluster Frame" I have a set of these I purchased about 18 - 20 yrs. ago. The idea or priciple of it is to supply clustering space in the brood chambers and help eliminate congestion (one of the main causes of swarming). It provides extra space for clustering bees in the brood chamber without violating the "bee space". There is no propalizing or burr comb building. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:39:24 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: A whole 'nother level of complexity In-Reply-To: <017501c39587$c3fb3650$29b85ad1@Pegasus> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <017501c39587$c3fb3650$29b85ad1@Pegasus>, allen dick writes >I hate that word: "assume". It comes back to bite us, eventually, every >time. I was taught that "I ass-u-me" could be read as "if I assume I make an ass out of you and me". -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:49:45 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Re: I.D. Gadget In-Reply-To: <200310221834.h9MIEDKs015623@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > "No Swarm Cluster > Frame" > The idea or priciple of it is ... But does it work? Eugene Makovec __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:30:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Pierre MacKay Subject: Re: vinegar In-Reply-To: <001701c3975a$2bc50990$ceb472d8@SOD> (message from Todd on Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:33:22 -0400) most vinegar is created as the second stage of the process Sugar ---> alcohol ---> vinegar, I am not aware of a strain of bacteria that can work directly on sugar without the initial transformation to alcohol. Pierre MacKay :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:45:48 -0700 Reply-To: mdshepherd@xerces.org Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Matthew Shepherd (Xerces Society)" Subject: Llano County (Texas) added to "killer bee" quarantine list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Llano County added to "killer bee" quarantine list >From KXAN-TV36 (Austin, Texas), at:= http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=3D1492872&nav=3D0s3dIfvJ Llano County has become the 150th Texas county added to the so-called= "killer bee" quarantine list. Wednesday's action restricts the movement of= commercial bee operations following the detection of Africanized honey= bees in the Central Texas county. A sample from a colony in Tow -- about= 90 miles northwest of Austin -- was sent to the Texas Honey Bee= Identification Lab in College Station. Officials say two people in the area were stung 150 to 250 times each while= mowing lawns. Both victims have recovered from the stings and the bees= have been destroyed. The quarantine allows beekeepers to move hives within but not out of the= zone. The Africanized bee was first detected in the U.S. near Brownsville in= October of 1990. Texas has 254 counties. Copyright 2003 Associated Press. All rights reserved. ______________________________________________________ Matthew Shepherd, Pollinator Conservation Program Director The Xerces Society 4828 SE Hawthorne Blvd, Portland, OR 97215, USA Tel: 503-232 6639 Fax: 503-233 6794 Email: mdshepherd@xerces.org ______________________________________________________ The Xerces Society is a nonprofit organization dedicated to protecting the diversity of life through the conservation of invertebrates. For information and membership details, see our website at www.xerces.org ______________________________________________________ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:48:20 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: Bee language Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In regard to my comprehensive bee language hypothesis, jim says the places NOT to forage would be very large, and he wonders how such a mechanism would work. To clarify (I hope), a bee that follows a dance might decide not to go to the indicated food source. It might set out in any other direction to search for an odour plume of the same smell as that on the dancing bee. When it found one, it would follow the plume to its origin, in the manner proposed by Adrian Wenner. For example, if a foraging bee (a scout) finds the first apple blossoms for the season, which are highly rewarding for both nectar and pollen, it may dance in the hive. A bee observing the dance will become aware of the scent of apple blossom on the dancing bee and will use the distance and direction information to avoid the discovered tree to maximise its chances of finding another apple tree by looking for the same scent. So for some bees following a dance about a newly discovered apple tree, the area they will NOT forage will be just the area indicated by that dancing bee, which of course will be very small. At the same time, some bees following dances about other rewarding flowers, e.g. a patch of black currants, will search in other directions for odour plumes of black currants - which may include the area of the discovered apple tree, which they will ignore. The overall result for the hive is that because some other bees do use the information in the dances to go to the discovered flowers, and some other bees use the information to most quickly find the same new flowers in other directions, the whole area over which bees from that hive can forage is searched for the most productive flowers. The overall result is that the foraging success of the hive is maximised. Regards, Barry Donovan Canterbury Agriculture and Science Centre Lincoln New Zealand. ______________________________________________________ CAUTION: The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential. If you read this message and you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. Any opinions or views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of their employer. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:18:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Joe Miller (Bethel NC USA)" Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited I have planted a couple 50# bags the past two years. I could not find any seed locally and had to get it when I travelled. If you travel, try the local seed suppliers. I got some in PA and NY, perhaps where they grow more of it? It did not darken or flavor my honey as much as I can tell but there were a lot more butterflies and wasp nests became a problem. I did see the bees work it. AGWAY is a northern supplier I remember... :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:49:26 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Maurice Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Look at http://www.pemadesign.com/pillows.htm Greetings from belgium Maurice ----- Original Message ----- From: "adrian m. wenner" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 6:01 PM Subject: [BEE-L] Buckwheat revisited > Mike Murray asked: > > > Isn't buckwheat a legume? > > The buckwheat in our area belongs to the buckwheat family, > Polygonaceae. However, one has to be careful about common names, > since they may vary between regions of the country. > > Adrian > -- > Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home office phone) > 967 Garcia Road wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu > Santa Barbara, CA 93103 www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm > > ***************************************************** > * > * "We not only believe what we see: > * to some extent we see what we believe." > * > * Richard Gregory (1970) > * > ***************************************************** > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 01:06:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Genetically modified foods MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Our local newspaper today carried an article on a survey about genetically modified foods. The article stated that although as much as 80 percent of processed food in the U.S. has a component from a genetically crop, only 26 percent of Americans think they’ve ever eaten such food. 52 percent of the survey respondents were aware, however, that genetically modified food products are in supermarkets. According to the article food biotechnology just isn’t much of a concern for many people. 77 percent of the respondents admitted they knew little or nothing about it, and 27 percent said they were comfortable with genetically modified foods. Among those who disapproved the willingness to buy such foods increased if they were told the modification made the items have less fat (30 percent), taste better (24 percent), or cost less (12 percent). Some misperceptions according to survey responses to a true-false test on biotechnology: 40 percent of respondents falsely thought tomatoes genetically modified with genes from catfish would taste “fishy.” 52 percent wrongly thought that genetically modified foods are created using radiation to create genetic mutations. 31 percent mistakenly believed that eating genetically modified fruit could modify a person’s genes. 43 percent falsely asserted that ordinary tomatoes don’t contain genes, only those that are genetically modified have genes. However, 76 percent did know that live yeast is used to make beer. The survey of 1201 adults was funded by the USDA. Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:56:42 -0400 Reply-To: lhhubbell@johnstown.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Leland Hubbell Organization: Tekoa Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are several sources for buckwheat seed listed on the internet via Google search . . . enter "Buckwheat seed" here is a quote from one company that may help: "Buckwheat Grows on poor soils, boosts phosphates This failproof, fast-growing cover crop is an excellent soil conditioner. It often blooms in 30 days from seed. Lush broadleaf plants will crowd out pesky weeds such as quack grass. Grows on poorest soil; extracts phosphates and passed them along to later crops when tilled under. Not winter-hardy. Sow in late spring or summer at 3 lbs. per 1,000 sq. ft." I have grown it as a cover crop. In central Ohio, planted mid-summer, bloomed up until frost. It is a progressive bloomer, and will have seed lower down on the stalk and flowers higher up. And, jes, bees worked it only in the morning. Leland Hubbell :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:23:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In August 2003 American Bee Journal carried an article on buckwheat honey. Some will claim bees generally don’t overwinter well on dark honeys. Buckwheat honey, though, according to the article, is certainly ok to winter bees on. A North Dakota beekeeper was quoted as saying buckwheat gives his bees a good fall build-up and makes enough surplus honey that he doesn’t feed those hives that are on buckwheat. He also said buckwheat pollen seemed particularly good for overwintering. Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:34:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Subject: honey vinegar In-Reply-To: <200310230400.h9N3rCJm005976@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well the original person that posed this question said that he only wanted to hear from someone who had actually made honey vinegar, so I kept my yap shut. Then I read Bill Truesdale's tales of vinegar woe and decided to weigh in. I'm an amateur beekeeper (2 hives) that I started three years ago to get my own honey to make mead. (I make a LOT of mead.) Those two hives have been pretty successful (180 lbs the first year and 240 lbs a year for the last 2 years), so much so that I have too much mead. Part of this problem arises because other amateur beekeepers keep giving me pails of honey, but that's another story. So I had been thinking about this excess mead, some of which had stopped fermenting at a point that was, for me, too sweet. After some reading I did the following. I went to the health food store and bought a quart of Bragg's "all natural unpasteurized cider vinegar with the mother". This was the easiest way I had found to get a vinegar mother without having to deal with mail order. I picked the bottle that was the cloudiest. I then cleaned and sanitized a 3 gallon stoneware crock that came from Grammy's house when she moved. Into the crock I added 2 1/2 gallons of the too-sweet mead, the quart of Bragg's vinegar and one 12 ounce bottle of Herb Garden Metheglyn. Herb Garden Metheglyn is a wax cappings mead which I flavored with fresh herb garden tarragon, sage, thyme, marjoram, and anise seeds. It's quite strong still and a 12 ounce bottle is more than enough. I then aerated to get some oxygen into the mixture, covered the crock with a very fine nylon mesh cloth and moved it far away from my mead-making area. Aerobacters are not a good thing to have in your fermenting area. For a couple of weeks it smelled just like a quart of vinegar in some sweet mead, but in the last week something must be happening because the aroma is much stronger and definitely herbal in nature. In fact, it smells WONDERFUL! Instructions say it should sit for six months so we'll see. Chuck Wettergreen (in digest mode) beekeeper meadmaker and now, mead vinegar too! Geneva, IL :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:36:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Buckwheat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This area of NYS, most particularly just north of Amsterdam and west of Utica was the 'capital' of US buckwheat production during the 19th century. The area matched buckwheat's optimum growing conditions and was reasonably close to the population center where it was most in demand...New York City. For the 'old' variety, maximum seed production (and resulting nectar) was achieved with an acid soil, warm days, and cool nights. This area, the foothills of the Adirondacks, met those conditions and buckwheat honey was harvested by the carload! In fact, one of our pioneer beekeepers, Moses Quinby, had many hives in the area. Today the closest area that grows lots of buckwheat is in Quebec, Canada, in the area of the Laurentian mountains (which are an extension of the Adirondacks). But mills in Penn Yann still seek out sources and within the past five years one mill was offering to provide 'free' seed to farmers willing to plant a crop. (Actually, the seed was provided on credit, payable when the crop was delivered.) They may yet be offering such terms. I have long understood that when buckwheat blooms but fails to yield nectar it is most often because the night temperatures exceed 80 degrees. I have no idea whether this is true, but I do note that the areas where buckwheat honey is reliable are those areas with cool nights. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:01:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Doug Schlichting Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have been growing about =BD and acre of buckwheat for several years. As = long as there is some moisture in the ground the bees (and other insects) = are all over it in the am. =20 My honey is darker than that of other beekeepers in the area - might be = the buckwheat. I like the taste of the darker stuff anyway. =20 I bought the seeds from Pinetree Seeds in New Gloucester, ME (about 4 = miles from my house). It is black hulled. I roto-till each spring and = reseed. www.superseeds.com/ Doug =20 =20 >>> waldig@NETZERO.COM 10/22/03 10:34AM >>> Bill, Did the bees work your buckwheat well? I bought a pound of buckwheat seed = (black although not a particular variety) this spring from a nursury in = Maine and planted a patch in my garden. It grew and bloomed nicely all = through the summer (it reseeds readily if not gathered promptly) but I = only saw one or two honeybees on it throughout the whole season. Even = bumble bees ingnored it. Buckwheat nectaries are supposed to be active = only in the morning and I looked at all times of the day. If anyone has buckwheat seed or knows of a mail-order source for buckwheat = that bees will actually work, I'd certainly appreciate the info. Waldemar Galka Long Island, NY Mike wrote: > I was perusing the BEE-L archives for sources and varieties of > buckwheat to plant next spring as a honey source and came up with very > little info. I grew it for what it does really well and that is ground cover and picked the ones that seeded best so I could have seed to plant the next year. That was some ten years ago and forget the variety. It can recapture a field that is weed prone and when plowed under helps a bit to restore it and did that well. My guess is whatever you plant will give you what you want. I doubt if there is much difference in taste since it a small family. So I would go for the variety that best suits your other needs, such as germination, seeds and the like. (Which, in a place like Maine, is my starting criteria.) And I would look up a local farm store and buy it from them since that seed is usually best for the area. (Which is what I did, and it was.) The honey was not something I would rave about so I ended up with a lot of buckwheat seed after the first year and never bothered with it again. Bill Truesdell (who has never made buckwheat vinegar) Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:43:18 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Martins Otomers Subject: Buckwheat? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1257 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi! I'm a young beekeeper from Latvia. Could anyone explain to me why bees works in buckwheat only in the morning? Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.one.lv - Tavs mobilais e-pasts! Tagad lasi savu e-pastu ar mobilo telefonu - wap.one.lv! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:57:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: Genetically modified foods MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Some misperceptions according to survey responses to a true-false test on > biotechnology: > Regards, > Dick Allen The bulk of the world is quite confused about GMO's. In conversation on this topic, I've found that many intelligent people analogize genetic engineering with hybrydization - a dsyfunctional analogy at best, since a hybrid involves members of the same genera which are capable of genetic exchange (like wolves and dogs), whereas genetic engineering can splice the genetic components of any two organisms, resulting in wildly unnatural DNA segments which have never, and would never occur naturally (like the glowing rabbits that one bio-firm was selling as pets!). GMO's were a pet peeve of mine several years ago. I was (and still am) concerned over the lack of labelling of such foods. I spoke directly to Bill Marianski (spelling?), who then headed the branch of the FDA responsible for the issue of To Label/Not To Label GMO foods. What he told me left me in shock. First, the official attitude of the FDA relative to GMO's was - if it looks like a tomato, smells like a tomato, and tastes like a tomato, it IS a tomato, regardless of how much genetic tinkering went into it's creation. Worse, he revealed that there was no independent testing required to verify safety claims from the bio-engineers: only an affadavit from the company saying that it was safe, presumably accompanied by some basic testing data (again, from the company selling the stuff). This situation has always troubled me on several levels. Since there is no way to know if one HAS eaten a GMO food, and since there are so many in the food chain now, it would be impossible to determine the cause if a GMO food were actually a problem. This scenario is almost guaranteed, since many people suffer severe food allergies - the principal antagonists being foreign proteins. Given that it is inevitable that new proteins will be created from these processes, it's just a matter of time before a GMO food creates a problem. Further, we are talking about living organisms which reproduce. There will be no way to prevent GMO pollen from spreading into the wild population of a large number of plants (example - rape hybridizes readily with wild mustard, which is a rampant weed), letting the genie even further out of the bottle, and rapidly degrading any temporary benifit of weed suppression, which is currently the primary reason behind many GMO foods (so-called "Roundup Ready"). There is even the possibility that the consumption of GMO pollen itself could become a problem, as in honey, etc. It's doubtful that GMO pollen is tested for human consumption. Imagine a situation where your honey or harvested pollen made someone ill. How would you ever sort it out? What if you were sued? I recognize that this is a topic of intense debate, and that some will not agree with my concerns (usually those who place infinite trust in men in white lab coats :-). I think it's just a matter of time before this technology creates some fairly substantial problems for us all. Since GMO's are steadily creeping into the world - the problem will be sorting it out. Regards, Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:30:43 -0400 Reply-To: Buckner Lewis Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Buckner Lewis Subject: Re: Buckwheat? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1257" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If bees work the flowers of Buckwheat only in the morning then that is the time of day the plant releases nectar. Simple. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:41:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Buckwheat? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > If bees work the flowers of Buckwheat only in the morning > then that is the > time of day the plant releases nectar. Simple. Actually, that's backwards. Buckwheat only produces nectar in the morning, so that's when the bees work the flowers. The nectaries shut down with the heat of the days, and the bees become quite irritable when the tap shuts off. Aaron Morrris - thinking all nectar should be 24X7! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:35:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Buckwheat? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Morris Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 7:34 AM To: 'L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)' Subject: RE: BEE-L: approval required (3D7E8B62) > If bees work the flowers of Buckwheat only in the morning > then that is the > time of day the plant releases nectar. Simple. Actually, that's backwards. Buckwheat only produces nectar in the morning, so that's when the bees work the flowers. The nectaries shut down with the heat of the days, and the bees become quite irritable when the tap shuts off. Aaron Morrris - thinking all nectar should be 24X7! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:41:44 -0400 Reply-To: lhhubbell@johnstown.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Leland Hubbell Organization: Tekoa Subject: Re: Bee-L Buckwheat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The first time I planted buckwheat, I had read that they worked the blooms profusely. I'd come home from work, and go check it out. No bees! Came the weekend, and there were the bees, until about noon. So, back to the books, and sure enough, this was noted, but I hadn't paid any attention to it the first time through. Oh! That we could catch things the first time around. And to Aaron, who said, "Aaron Morrris - thinking all nectar should be 24X7!" Should I start working on headlamps for the bees, or find a nectar-storing species of moth? Leland Hubbell :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:15:47 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "adrian m. wenner" Subject: Buckwheat? In-Reply-To: <5AF61A7A68D97645B968E3F6F7D069A1090D2005@email.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Aaron Morris wrote: >Actually, that's backwards. Buckwheat only produces nectar in the morning, >so that's when the bees work the flowers. The nectaries shut down with the >heat of the days, and the bees become quite irritable when the tap shuts >off. In our Santa Cruz Island research, we found that honey bees worked buckwheat only until about noon. However, native bees continued to work the blossoms the rest of the day. We attributed that difference to the fact that honey bees are not native and ill-adapted -- perhaps a tongue length problem. And, yes, the honey bees did exhibit "frustration" at about noon. That's when we could easily convert them to visit our scented sugar solution for bee lining efforts. Adrian -- Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home office phone) 967 Garcia Road wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara, CA 93103 www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm ***************************************************** * * "We not only believe what we see: * to some extent we see what we believe." * * Richard Gregory (1970) * ***************************************************** :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:13:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Buckwheat? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1257" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If bees work the flowers of Buckwheat only in the morning then that is the > time of day the plant releases nectar. Simple. Is it? Where does the nectar go after lunchtime, if the bees don't gather it all immediately? Does it reabsorb? Dry up? Lose its attractivess???? Enquiring minds need to know. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:14:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Buckwheat? In the 36th ed. of ABC and XYZ of Bee Culture: "Buckwheat flowers die at noon and new ones open the next day, according to Beutler.--A.D. Betts." (I'm just passing along the quote...and don't know whether to believe it or not...) Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:16:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Comb honey Here are another couple pictures in the pictoral tutor. These quart jars are filled to the top with cappings without being packed down, then are filled to the top with water. The water should be between a half and a third in volume, and one jar lasts about a day for fairly strong hives. When empty, you get beautifully clean and dry wax which is easy to render. You put them in the hive immediately after filling. The bees are funny, they seem, after a few times, to know exactly what's going on when you lift the lid and go right to the jars. http://www.pbase.com/image/22611197 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:20:25 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Predrag Cvetkovic Subject: Re: Buckwheat? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1257" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen wrote: > Is it? Where does the nectar go after lunchtime, if the bees don't gather > it all immediately? Does it reabsorb? Dry up? Lose its attractivess???? I found an interesting detail about buckwheat nectar production in Russian Small beekeeping encyclopedia (1991): (I will retell) In the afternoon, sugar concentration in buckwheat nectar increases to 60-80% and that makes the difficults for gathering. Buckwheat nectar is very accessible but high temperatures may caused thickening. It means that flower contents nectar, but too thick for gathering? That coincides with one detail from other book: buckwheat produces nectar mostly in the morning and before evening (Usually, they say that buckwheat nectar production is in the morning only). At the end I'd like to remind of Lloyd Spear's observation that coincides with that explanation too: "but I do note that the areas where buckwheat honey is reliable are those areas with cool nights." Predrag Cvetkovic Serbia predragcv@ptt.yu www.pcela.co.yu :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:40:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Buckwheat? In-Reply-To: <200310241714.h9OD5idE021017@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick Allen wrote: > In the 36th ed. of ABC and XYZ of Bee Culture: "Buckwheat flowers die at > noon and new ones open the next day, according to Beutler.--A.D. Betts." There is also quite a bit on nectar and its production in Hive and Honey Bee. In some cases nectar is turned on and off at certain times of the day. Some plants bloom to take advantage of pollinators, including blooming at night. The one thing I took away from it is how much we do not know about the "Why" but have plenty of observations of what happens. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:55:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Howard Kogan Subject: Bears Attack Hives! Dear Colleagues; I am a hobby beekeeper who had 4 hives. On the night of 10/21 a bear destoyed 3 hives - I did manage to raise one back up -those bees were really angry! The next night the bear returned and destroyed the remaining untouched hive and the one I managed to right. It looks like I will be starting all over again in the spring. Two questions: it has been cold-around 30F this past week-I am in the New York State Taconic range-why aren't the bears hibernating by now? Secondly, this is a situation where I could not use an electric fence does anyone have experience with another type of fence that works? Any thoughts will be much appreciated! Howard :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:41:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Bears Attack Hives! In-Reply-To: <200310250055.h9P0t2JO012362@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > it has been >cold-around 30F this past week-I am in the New York State Taconic range-why >aren't the bears hibernating by now? Not cold for a bear. Besides there is still food to eat....like your bees. Another beekeeper on this list just lost his best yard last week. Nope, not too cold for bears. > this is a situation where I >could not use an electric fence does anyone have experience with another >type of fence that works? > Howard Why not. There are suitable battery fence chargers that work well...such as the Gallagher B-10 or B-11....or the Speedrite AN-90 Both run on flashlight batteries, and will stop a bear. Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:01:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: wintermead Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: Doug Schlichting > Did the bees work your buckwheat well? I bought a pound of buckwheat seed = > (black although not a particular variety) this spring from a nursury in = > Maine and planted a patch in my garden. It grew and bloomed nicely all = > through the summer (it reseeds readily if not gathered promptly) but I = > only saw one or two honeybees on it throughout the whole season. Even = > bumble bees ingnored it. Buckwheat nectaries are supposed to be active = > only in the morning and I looked at all times of the day. In July of 1999 a friend and I went to Brittany (France) to talk to professional meadmakers about their methods of making mead. They all also happened to be large commercial beekeepers. One 84 year-old gentleman, Gil Barbe', told us that they could no longer find French buckwheat honey and had to purchase it from Canada and China. He said that the new varieties of buckwheat had been bred to reduce the amount of nectar that the plant produced to the point that the bees would no longer work it. Sounds like you got some of the new variety. Chuck Wettergreen beekeeper meadmaker and now mead vinegar too! Geneva, IL :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:16:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Glenn Hile Subject: Re: Buckwheat? In-Reply-To: <3F998034.4050501@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quoting from a chapter on Buckwheat authored by Harold Marshall, USDA-SEA and Pennsylvania State University in Hybridization of Crop Plants published by Crop Science Society of America concerning methods of crossing and breeding various crops: "The plants produce blossoms daily for about four weeks. Flowers are open for only 1 day, and the stigmas normally are receptive as long as the flower is open and not withered. Buckwheat anthers dehisce early in the morning and essentially turn inside out in the process. The pollen is sticky and is arranged in rows on the walls of the inverted anthers." In another book Chapter 9 Crop Plants and Exotic Plants Dr. Marshall stated: The flower, which opens in the morning around 8 a.m., has eight yellow nectaries alternating with the eight filaments at the base of the ovary, bound together by a cushionlike swelling (Knuth 1909*, pp. 341 - 342). The flower (fig. 56) secretes nectar in copious amounts, but only in the morning hours, during which time it is highly attractive to bees (Phillips and Demuth 1922). Toward noon, the flow lessens, and during the afternoon honey bees usually abandon the plants. Pollen is also collected by honey bees from buckwheat. A colony of honey bees having access to a field of flowering buckwheat may store 10 to 15 pounds of honey per day (Versehora 1962), and collect 90 to 290 pounds of nectar per acre (Free 1970* Martin and Leonard 1949*). The honey produced by buckwheat is dark with a strong flavor that is usually relished only by people who are accustomed to it; however, there is a greater demand for this honey than can be supplied. The honey is used primarily in the baking of foods. During a buckwheat nectar flow, the apiary may have a strong sometimes nauseating aroma which can be detected for some distance (Pellett 1947*). Mel'nichenko (1963) thought that removal of nectar by bees stimulated greater secretion. He stated that secretion ceases after the flower has been fertilized. Full article can be accessed at : http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/book/chap9/buckwheat.html Glenn :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:33:36 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Bee language Barry said: > A bee observing the dance will become aware of the scent of > apple blossom on the dancing bee and will use the distance > and direction information to avoid the discovered tree to > maximise its chances of finding another apple tree by looking > for the same scent. But there is no need to do so. Dance information is never accurate enough to point to a specific tree. A stand of trees, yes. A single isolated tree in the middle of a field, sure, but that scenario is rare. > The overall result for the hive is that because some other bees do use > the information in the dances to go to the discovered flowers, and some > other bees use the information to most quickly find the same new flowers > in other directions, the whole area over which bees from that hive can > forage is searched for the most productive flowers. The overall result > is that the foraging success of the hive is maximised. I prefer the foraging model described by Seeley in "Wisdom of the Hive", with his explanation of how bee "spread their bets" in foraging, and the description of the specifics of the dance mechanism given by Gould and Gould in "The Honey Bee". jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:27:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Bears Attack Hives! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howard said: Secondly, this is a situation where I could not use an electric fence Never saw a situation you could not use a E. fence but have seen plenty of bears go through a poorly built E. fence. Some of the best e fence I have seen uses existing trees! Howard asks: does anyone have experience with another type of fence that works? Razor wire but I would never use as I am an animal lover. Has been used illegally in back country I have been told. Howard asks: Any thoughts will be much appreciated! Solutions to bear problems: 1. relocate bee yard (if only three hives) 2. properly built electric fence. 3. trap the bear. Many beekeepers own their own bear traps in bear country but most forestry departments in bear country will trap problem bears for you. 4. Kill the bear (or as beekeepers say to conservation agents "don't know what happened to the problem bear"). If solution four is the solution bears are repeat offenders! The best solution in my opinion is a properly built electric fence or relocate the bee yard. I agree expensive to build a E. fence to protect three hives but not for a large permanent commercial yard. The University of Montana has a E. fence design video at their website of a e. fence which Jerry B. says will stop the most persistent bear! Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:48:49 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Waldemar said: I bought a pound of buckwheat seed (black although not a particular variety) this spring from a nursury in Maine and planted a patch in my garden. It grew and bloomed nicely all through the summer (it reseeds readily if not gathered promptly) but I only saw one or two honeybees on it throughout the whole season. Even bumble bees ingnored it. If you want to order a variety the bees will for sure work you can order Buckwheat seed from "Lapp's Bee Supply Center" in Reeseville, Wi. 1-800-321-1960 >From page 31 of their 2003 catalog: Cat. no. 512-10 Buckwheat 10 lbs. $8.00 (U.S.) " " 512-50 " 50 lbs. $38 " Shipping would be extra . Bob Ps. Returned awhile ago from the Missouri State Beekeepers meeting and made a new friend from BEE-L Kenny Norman at the meeting. Although Kenny can not wait each day to read his BEE-L email he remains a lurker. I encouraged Kenny to share his knowledge with the list! Kenny has been reading the archives which is EXACTLY what I did before I ever posted. Yes Bob was once a BEE-L "lurker" in fact I am a "lurker" on a couple other lists even now! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:19:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Suzanne Geisler Subject: homemade honey extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am new beekeeper in southwest Ohio. I would like to find plans for a = homemade honey extractor. I searched the Bee-L archives and found a = tantalizing reference to plans available at a certain 800 number in = February of 1997. That's it! Obviously the number is no longer in = service and the name of the Tennessee company was not listed in the = posting.=20 I'm sure there are plans out there. I would appreciate any information. = I did find one posted on beesource.com (USDA Model) but the plans were = too vague for me. I need lots of detail! Suzanne Geisler Springboro, OH home of dogs(3), cats(1), bees(60,000), and kids(2), :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:50:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: Re: homemade honey extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you find some, let me know. At beesource there's a thread that mentions one built in a garbage can of some sort. I think commercially. Anyone ever seen one in a plastic tub? Dickm I'm sure there are plans out there. I would appreciate any information. I did find one posted on beesource.com (USDA Model) but the plans were too vague for me. I need lots of detail! Suzanne Geisler Springboro, OH home of dogs(3), cats(1), bees(60,000), and kids(2), :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:09:52 -0700 Reply-To: Mathew Westall Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mathew Westall Subject: Re: Bears Attack Hives! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howard, If you do a search of past bear attacks in Bee-L - nearly 100% of bears will return the following night once they start in on your hives. Next time you can use this information to lay in wait with prepared defense. What to do then? The bad news is once bears have identified your hives as an eating location that spot is marked on their minds until they're dead (natural or otherwise) so you always have to be cognizant that your hives are at risk at that location while the bear is alive. -Electric fences - do work, but once the bear has a taste bears can easily defeat the fence. I have footage captured by the USDA during a study with my beehives in '02 where the bears learned to jump the 4' electric fences clean - destroy the hives - and jump out. This was following a month of equipment failures so the bears gradually learned to accept a little voltage and noise with their appetite. All 16 hives in the study were utterly destroyed down to the last inch of beeswax within 6 weeks. The BEST-ABSOLUTE use of an electric fence is in prevention. Maintain your fences, check them for voltage at the fence using a measuring device. Don't leave anything to chance. By your comment on electric fences I will surmise you live in a town that has an ordinance against electric fencing eliminating this as a tool for prevention for you. (??) Towns usually pass ordinances such as these to keep people from harming themselves or other people by electrocution. Solar powered electric fences can do little but zap the intruder for a few seconds since the source of power is limited by the charge of the battery. I would suggest appealing to your council for an accepted variance on solar powered e-fences. It's in your town's interest to have a variety of weapons at their disposal to eliminate nuisance bears without killing/trapping/chasing them - which was the reason the USDA stepped in to the study mentioned above. They were investigating the use of noise as abatement for bears. If bears aren't into your beehives in that city/town then they're in someone's trash or worse, in someone's kitchen. The problem that your town and every community like it - big and small, is that bears are learning to live with human encroachment. Every year there are more people, more trashcans, more picnics, more food left in cars. According to the USDA fellow running the study, bears learning to adapt to cities are nearly twice (!) as big as their hill-running counter-parts. They live much shorter lives but are twice as big from the bounty of food available at every turn. Which is why the number of bears killed on roads is over 1000% higher than we saw in the 1980's (seem to recall numbers of ~5or6/year killed vs. 200+ in 2001). Other options? - noise abatement - "Critter Gitter" makes a squeal device activated by motion. The noise is piercing enough to persuade the bear to reel. The device also flashes light. Together the device is fairly convincing to keep bears off your hives. The only problem with those devices is they commonly sound at all hours of the day & night triggered by wind, squirrels - or for no reason at all. So you end up with angry neighbors, dead batteries and no protection in a hurry - which is also the reason why we had such equipment failures with the USDA study last summer. Motion triggering devices simply aren't perfected enough to keep batteries charged for the 'right' type of (bear) abatement. Knowing this - you could have placed a critter-gitter on site when the bear first started in on your hive. There's a 50-50 chance you could have convinced this bear to leave for good. I know for certain because I used this EXACT method last summer when a bear tipped over my lone pollination hive here at the house and took a few bites into the honey. Knowing the bear would be back the following night I assembled both a temporary solar e-fence and the motion detector critter-gitter. At 2am the next morning I was awoke by the screams of the critter gitter. Armed with a floodlight and some yelling I chased the bear (AND cubs!) away at a very fast trot. She hasn't been back. Hope you find some info that works for your situation. Bears are smart. They'll find a way to defeat your protection if left unattended. You can at least rely on bears to consistently apply everything in their power to get to you hives once they have the taste of honey from your hives. Know your enemy and find whatever predictable behavior you can use to defeat their advance! Matthew Westall - Castle Rock, CO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Kogan" Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 5:55 PM > aren't the bears hibernating by now? Secondly, this is a situation where I > could not use an electric fence does anyone have experience with another > type of fence that works? > Any thoughts will be much appreciated! Howard :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:28:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Glenn Hile Subject: Re: homemade honey extractor In-Reply-To: <001601c39c8c$f308caa0$6f8fdf18@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Suzanne, If you are not successful in your attempt to find plans and build one, the Bruchner Nature Center in Troy, OH has one that is owned by the Miami Valley Bee Club that you can use at minimal cost. They also have an uncapping knife, etc. available. It's a little trouble to load and haul supers, but easier than maintaining one for a small number of hives. You also keep most of the mess out of your kitchen or garage! Glenn Greenville, OH :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:33:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: homemade honey extractor Comments: To: Suzannne Geisler Suzanne & others, With all do respect and consideration that an extractor may be a fun thing to put together from scratch; I believe that it might be just a tad bit easier and cheaper to find a good used extractor on the open market. A lot of folks have decided to get out of beekeeping lately and have extractors, uncapping knives and other beekeeping equipment for sale at bargan prices; you just need to look to find them. I believe that such an endeavor would be worth the effort! Good Luck! Chuck Norton - Who once tried to make an extractor out of his wife's washing machine and was forced to sleep with the bees for weeks. Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:03:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: yoonytoons Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited Instead of identifying the purchase source, why not simply identify the brand or species so that people can purchase locally? Yoon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:35:27 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Skriba Subject: Re: homemade honey extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This past spring I attended an auction where there was an extractor made out of a rubber garbage can...it looked to hold 4 frames. But by the looks of it, I think one would be farther ahead buying a used commercially made extractor. Bill :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:30:09 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: homemade honey extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Suzanne said: > "I'm sure there are plans out there. I would appreciate any information. I > did find one posted on beesource.com (USDA Model) but the plans were too > vague for me. I need lots of detail!" I have Garden Way Plans P1 'Build your own Honey Extractor ' out of a dustbin , very detailed but dated 1982 , published Garden Way Publishing, Dept F159 Charlotte, Vermont 05445, (802) 425-2171 Anyone going to all the trouble to make this fully functioning imitation of a factory extractor would have to be some sort of very special person, in my view. In UK u can now buy Italian Lega 4-frame stainless steel tangential extractors for £155, or 9-frame radial extractors for £230, complete with legs and tangential screens for large frames such as 14"x12". Whether Lega export to others countries I do not know. Anyway, it would seem easier to take in washing for a few weeks and save the money to buy a new extractor. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:39:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Greg Kovacs Subject: Re: homemade honey extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Suzanne, Since I come from the birthplace of Rodale Farms and Press,I am sorta blessed with an odd amout of plans. I have 1 set that uses a barrel for the container. Actually the other set calls for using a barrel as well. Now that i've been keeping my girls for 3 years and have extracted for 2 seasons and since I am a control electrician, it should be pretty easy to fabricate something like this. I can make a copy of these plans and mail them. I don't think Rodale will like it too much if I use something from their books and blast it across the cyber waves. The basic design of the extractor is a round barrel with a centrifical device in the center for your frames, some way to spin it and of course a drain gate. I did a 2hour check under---beekeeping equipment plans-----. It turned up some interesting things. I found that State extension offices have a number of downloadable plans. www.beecomerce.com has a large number of plans for everything but an extracter. for the small op that you have a 2 framer would be adequate. If you want to make a decapping tank, one of those small plastic sinks with legs would work. You put a screen in the bottom and put a filtering bucket underneath. IF you have a drill don't waste your time buying those 5 gallon buckets with the drain valves in. Buy the 5 gallon buckets with the lids and drill out for a gate valve and install your own. I could ramble ojjn here but I think you can see where this is going. If you want the plans I have I will be glad to send them to you. Take care Greg K :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:15:35 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rossander Subject: Re: homemade honey extractor In-Reply-To: <001601c39c8c$f308caa0$6f8fdf18@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have been wondering the same thing (how to make my own extractor). I also found the USDA plans. Given the parts and tools that I'd have to buy to make the gears and basket, it was not the low-cost option. e-Bay has used extractors for sale on a regular basis. So far, they've been going for more than I want to pay (including shipping and given the inherent unknowns about quality, servicability, etc.). I've seen a few at local auctions, but they were a lot more machine than I need. I just recently saw a new all-plastic extractor that Dadant is carrying. It is certainly the cheapest option I've found so far. I trust Dadant not to carry junk but still wonder about the durability of plastic gears. Does anyone have any experience with this product? http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=72&products_id=355 Mike Rossander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 18:39:24 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Buckwheat revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yoon asked: Instead of identifying the purchase source, why not simply identify the brand or species so that people can purchase locally? Waldemar asked the oiginal question and sent me an email thanking me. I think Lapp's Buckwheat seed was what he was looking for! None of my sources have provided a brand or species. Perhaps if you call Lapp's 800 number they can help Yoon. The Amish were the only source for Buckwheat seed I found in Missouri when I looked. I doubt you will find a big selection in Oklahoma. Certain varieties of soybeans are not worked by the bees. From what has been posted on the list it seems the same applies to Buckwheat. I doubt a bee supply house would handle a Variety the bees would not work. The bees worked the buckwheat I planted from the Amish but no Variety was listed as I believe the Amish gathered the seed . I will try to find out about their Buckwheat seed (Variety) when I see the Amish in a little over a week. The Amish tell me you can get four plantings a year from Buckwheat in the same field by turning under and replanting. I broadcast my Buckwheat seed in the wet soil of river bottoms after a rain and the seed came right up. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:32:57 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 25 Oct 2003 to 26 Oct 2003 (#2003-295) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim says dance information is never accurate enough to point to a specific tree. Well I don't know whether humans could expect to get as much accurancy out of a bee dance as a follower bee might, but many people have claimed that they can obain sufficient infomation to get pretty close to the indicated food source. Even if the dance information isn't all that accurate for a new forager, once within cooee it will encounter a plume of the same scent as carried by the dancing bee, which it need only follow in the manner indicated by Adrian Wenner to arrive at the flowers. Regards, Barry Donovan Canterbury Agriculture and Science Centre Lincoln New Zealand. ______________________________________________________ CAUTION: The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential. If you read this message and you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. Any opinions or views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of their employer. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:30:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: D Thompson Subject: Re: Bears Attack Hives! In-Reply-To: <000c01c39c94$05ec7020$6400a8c0@ecapital83wvji> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On October 27, 2003 09:09 am, you wrote: > Howard, > If you do a search of past bear attacks in Bee-L - nearly 100% of bears > will return the following night once they start in on your hives. Next > time you can use this information to lay in wait with prepared defense. > > What to do then? The bad news is once bears have identified your hives as > an eating location that spot is marked on their minds until they're dead > (natural or otherwise) so you always have to be cognizant that your hives > are at risk at that location while the bear is alive. > > > could not use an electric fence does anyone have experience with another > > type of fence that works? > > Any thoughts will be much appreciated! Howard Also I, an electric fence would not have been appropriate This happpened in '80 or '81 the hives were 2 here and 2 there etc, no large level areas (this being 100 mi W of Ottawa in the hills) I suppose it was a minor victory, after 30-40 visits late spring to mid oct I still had 1/2 hives, 1 bear dead, 1 wounded, a large pile of junk. Even runty black bears are strong Smaller bears are very wary, you won't see them. If you are there they won't come out of the brush, they make little noise, they wait patiently for you to leave and for dark I was never able to sneak up on them (only in the snow), they seldom came out of cover in daylight I did get compensated for the junk over the inspectors objections (as per the regs then) Foot snares should be 15-18" not smaller Once the size was right it was the 1st or 2nd trip of the spring set. (many futile trips at wolf size) Later I learned that in BC for the fireweed (grizzlys) they use metal strapping to band each hive 2 ways tightly with plywood top boards, and 8 hives together In the archives is something about chain link fence After that year the hives were in a cabin,large tube entrances Since it had windows and a stove this made wintering a snap, and in spring easy build up. No winter loss in 2 years I rather had the impression that the bees liked it, perhaps they came to feel 'not the poor relations' I certainly liked it, was a shame to move then out, that lead to another disaster(AFB in a package). dave :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:34:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Greg Kovacs Subject: Re: homemade honey extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike , Yes I have one. It is made in China and cost $100 +. It does only 2 frames at a time, deep med, shallow. Actually it is not too bad. I extracted 182 lbs of wet honey from my one hive and could extract in an afternoon2-3 supers with out much strain. You have to turn the frames around of course but I knew that when I got it. I would recommend getting the video on extracting and harvesting. It gives a person a good overview on extracting. For a hundred dollars and if you are going to have only a few hives its pretty hard to beat. The best part is that when you outgrow it you can lend it to a beginning beekeeper till they get there own. I give a thumbs up. Suzanne this is a winner for you to get.And yes I will send you plans. Take care all Greg :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:14:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: yoonytoons Subject: Re: Buckwheat? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings: I have been following this buckwheat thread, thinking buckwheat must be just another American native species, about which I have no clue; however, reading up a few internet sources, I come to realize that buckwheat is none other than what I have known all along, growing up in Korea, as *Memil,* [spelling phonetically] whose ground-flour is excellent for two recipes I recall: *memil mook* and *memil turnover [pancake]*.” The former looks like tofu [made of soybean], but transparent and wobbly like jello on a saucer. Relying on your mastery of chopsticks, you dip a slimy slice of this into a special soy sauce, sprinkled with sesame seeds and green-onion chops. What a delicacy! The latter is a pancake with a coarse grain, usually prepared for holidays: the New Years Day, Thanksgiving, and weddings, etc. Imagine a pancake made of coarse grits but with buckwheat’s unique flavor. They both taste excellent to the native palate, which has been accustomed to its unique taste by wolfing both down from time immemorial. [I am inclined to believe that our taste buds are tailored by our genes; hence, we crave for stinking ethnic stuff, regardless their nutritional values]. Nonetheless, both dishes are not so essential to their diet as to lose their sleep over. As for the bees’ foraging on them, I have never paid much attention while I grew up, for in Korea beekeepers invariably consider only Acacia [not psuedo], chestnut, and clovers, among others, to be their major nectar sources. I now have learned that the weed I did not pay any attention to has some special value for American beekeeping. Come next year, I will definitely plant some in the fall. Yoon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:37:16 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Genetically modified foods > a survey about genetically modified foods... Isn't it sort of useless to survey only the people who have more food than they can eat, and more choices than they can handle? Survey some of the REST of the 6 billion people on this planet - the ones that are barely scratching by, the ones that know someone who has died of malnutrition. There are many people who think GM food should be labeled as such, and I agree. But the "protest" against GM food (lectures, role-playing exercises, personal storytelling, theater of the oppressed, newsblogging, warblogging, linkblogging, puppetmaking, outreach, filterbusting...) is all from people who are far too well-fed to understand just how critical the actual situation is. People are starving right now. Think about it. The best evaluation of the whole morass was written long before any of us were born: "Whoever could make two ears of corn or two blades of grass to grow upon a spot of ground where only one grew before would deserve better of mankind and do more essential service to his country than the whole race of politicians put together." (Jonathan Swift) jim (Winner of the "Most likely to cause angry mobs to run through Wall St. with pitchforks" award.) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 18:58:00 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Bolling Bee Email MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I emailed Charlie Living who is working with Bill Gafford and is the new owner of Bolling Bee Company about some contact info and he asked me to inform those beekeepers who wish to email him of his email address. His email address is; graycaucasian@yahoo.com He also has a web site in the making and will be up and running soon but not yet. His web site address is; www.bollingbee.com . .. c(((([ Keith Malone Chugiak, Alaska USA Caucasian Bee Keeper http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:16:03 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Re: homemade honey extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good Morning, The extractor that is made in china brings a thought to mind. How do we intice people here in the USA to buy honey made only in the USA and we go to china to buy our equipment? This is food for thought on all merchandise, from socks to all other things we buy. Lionel :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:45:05 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Re: Genetically modified foods In-Reply-To: <0a8301c39d04$c87b4e20$7604c518@gollum> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > There are many people who think GM food should be > labeled as such, and I agree. But the "protest" > against GM food [...] is all from people who > are far too well-fed to understand just how critical > the actual situation is. > > People are starving right now. > Think about it. It seems to me this argument to support GM food is a sophism. We already produce more food than we can eat, as you wrote. Producers try to manage their stocks in order to maintain prices (pork, milk, butter, wheat, and so on). The problem is not the quantity of food produced but its cost and access for starving people. The fact that occidental farmers are more efficient when using GM food won't help them so much. Have GM food helped starving people until now ? Why do Indian (from India I mean) farmers protest so much against GM plants if they were so helped by GM foods ? They even created committees and delegations that travelled in many European countries to express their opposition. If you assist a conference given by local african people, for example, involved in ONG (non governmental carritativ organisations) they are complaining about developped countries getting rid of their stocks times to times simultaneously with local crops and earthquacking local prices (particulary with wheat) so that local farmers can not develop their own agriculture. I wil be conviced that GM food will help starving people when they would thank Mosento and erect a sculpture dedicated to its CEO. Please forgive my frankness in my post. My english is not good enough to be a subtile diplomate. Hervé ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:09:00 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Organic food - reference In-Reply-To: <148.1b6135ef.2ccfc613@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I referred some weeks ago, in a post dealing with organic certification, to a danish study comparing spermatozoides in spermatheque in organic food eaters and in non organic food eaters. I took the time today to look for the exact reference : Jensen T.K., Giwercman A., Carlsen E., Scheike T., Skakkebaek N.E., 1996. Semen quality among members of organic food associations in Zealand, Denmark. The Lancet, 347, 1844. You can fond more information about different studies on that matter : http://www.inra.fr/Internet/Produits/PA/an2002/num223/kouba/mk223.htm Hervé ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:17:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: GMO thread MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The GMO thread is a prime example of straying off topic. The first post (there have been four posts in the current go-round), approved on a slow day, was at best marginally tangential to "The Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology". Its approval elicited rebukes from some about being off topic. The next post was approved, as it was a response to the first "marginally tangential" post. The third post, though "informed", with quotes from Jonathan Swift, continued the off topic discussion by the persistence of the author, and the final (and hopefully last) post had nothing whatsoever to do with the BEE-L charter and really has no place on this list. Now where does one draw the line? Lienience was given too the first post, courtesy to the second. Persistence paid off for the third post and the fourth post made it through solely so I could write this observation of how easily things can stray off topic. Anyone who submitted any of the articles may have cried censorship! None of the three submissions were directly related to the BEE-L charter. So where does one draw the line? Having made this point, I draw the line here. Unless there is a DIRECT tie to "The Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology", I consider the GMO thread at an end. Aaron Morris BEE-L Owner/Editor/Moderator :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:17:21 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Kelley Cups MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I am looking for a Walter T. Kelley Co. coffee cup 1997. If anyone has an extra or an unwanted one, I would like to purchase one. Lionel Evans 1307 Fern St. Athens, AL. 35613 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:52:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Genetically modified foods In-Reply-To: <0a8301c39d04$c87b4e20$7604c518@gollum> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Fischer wrote: >>a survey about genetically modified foods... > > > Isn't it sort of useless to survey only the people > who have more food than they can eat, and more > choices than they can handle? > > Survey some of the REST of the 6 billion people > on this planet - the ones that are barely scratching > by, the ones that know someone who has died of > malnutrition. This was sort of done on a PBS special on GM plants. The conclusion was that rich countries could debate the pros and cons while poor countries required it to survive. In essence, the attitude of the anti-GM advocates in the rich countries was "let them eat cake". We in the US have been eating GM foods for more than ten years. There are concerns but too many of them are based on the early years of GM research and are not applicable now. My main concern is not so much food safety but pest tolerance. But that is also a concern we all share with what we put into our hives, but considering the alternative, we still use it. Same with GM food. The person in the supermarket can decry our use of varroa controls but has an unlimited supply of sweeteners. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:45:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Plastic Extractor (was homemade honey extractor) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The current extractor thread is a perennial topic, covered extensively in the archives. The plastic extractor offered by Dadant (possibly others) whch just received a positive review from kb3ckd@juno.com has been panned by others. Reason being lack of durability. Extractors can be subjected to quite a bit of force, expecially if they aren't properly loaded/balanced. It was opined that the plastic extractor, althou a good financial bargain, does not hold up to the stress over the years. I have no personal experience. Aaron Morris - thinking there's gold in them thar archives! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:58:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: GMO Thread MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The GNO thread is a prime example of straying off topic. The first post in the current round was at best marginally tangential to "The Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology", but it was approved, eliciting rebukes from some about being off topic. The next approved post was a response to the first "marginally tangential" post, and though "well informed", with quotes from Jonathan Swift, it really WAS off topic. The last approved post was a response to the off-topic response, and it really had nothing whatsoever to do with the BEE-L charter and really has no place on this list. Now where does one draw the line? Lienience was given too the first post. Persistence paid off for the second post. The third post made it through so I could write this observation of how easily things can stray off topic. Anyone who submitted any of the three articles may have cried censorship! None of the three submissions were directly related to the BEE-L charter. So where does one draw the line? Having made this point, I draw the line here. Unless there is a DIRECT tie to "The Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology", I consider the GMO thread at an end. Aaron Morris BEE-L Owner/Editor/Moderator :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:35:24 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Subject: Sucrose Octanoate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just read in "American Bee Journal" about Sucrose Octanoate. I had heard of the control substance before but had not heard that it had passed the EPA clearances for use in mite control. Anyone know of a source for use in our beekeeping industry. I need to get enough for about twenty hives ASAP. Mike Located 1/2 way between Mobile and Montgomery, Alabama :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:24:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Karen D. Oland" Subject: Re: homemade honey extractor In-Reply-To: <20031027.173940.-248687.1.kb3ckd@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: Greg Kovacs > Since I come from the birthplace of Rodale Farms and Press,I am sorta > blessed with an odd amout of plans. I have 1 set that uses a barrel for > the container. Actually the other set calls for using a barrel as well. > Now that i've been keeping my girls for 3 years and have extracted for 2 > seasons and since I am a control electrician, it should be pretty easy to > fabricate something like this. One thing to keep in mind is that only plastic (food grade) or stainless steel should be used for the extractor (and misc parts). Honey will react with many metals (such as the galvanized materials used in years past, which require annual painting with a food grade paint -- even if food grade paint does sound a little unappetizing). The cost of putting together a stainless unit on your own will probably exceed the cost of picking up a used one (or even a smaller new one, since they start at $102 for plastic and $209 for stainless at one vendor). Of course, there are many cheap plans out there (example, take a food grade plstic container big enough to hold a frame, cut off cappings and put frame in container, cover with lid that has rope tied in it, swing over head until all honey is extracted, repeat as necessary), but not all are practical or cost effective (or even work very well). You'll find the cheaper extractors on the market require you to turn the frames over to extract both sides (and if you are in too big a hurry, you'll probably blow the wax out on the first side), while for a slightly larger investment you can have both a motor and reversible drive, eliminating a large amount of work 9and saving more of your wax in the frames for use next year). Karen > If you want to make a > decapping tank, one of those small plastic sinks with legs would work. > You put a screen in the bottom Make sure the screen is stainless, will stand up off the bottom and hold the weight of the cappings you dump in it. I assume the sink it food grade (?), but a commercial version of a plastic uncapping tank can also be used as your holding/filling tank (strain honey into buckets, clean out decapping tank, put honey back in and use gate on it to fill your jars). This will be a little hard to do with a sink. > Buy the 5 gallon buckets with the lids and drill out > for a gate valve and install your own. Also worthwile, but again, use food grade buckets that haven't had odorous food in them (unless you really like pickle flavored honey?). I can get used honey buckets from a local food manufacturer (free) and don't have to worry about flavoring, but frosting buckets from bakeries work well (except the strongly colored and flavored frostings). Karen --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:00:34 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Re: Sucrose Octanoate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dadant has info on this subject. Call them and they will explain it yo you. I received info the other day. Lionel :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:47:39 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Sucrose Octanoate Tony Barrington, who owns the company that makes this stuff can be reached via e-mail at avachem@qsinet.net jim (Aut agere aut mori!) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::